Thursday, April 11, 2013
Greetings to all:
This post substantially exceeds my typical post. I had a lot to say, however, and I have been rewriting and fine tuning this piece since Tuesday night.
As you all know, Benjamin Crump represents Trayvon’s parents, Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin. He negotiated a settlement agreement earlier this year with the Homeowner’s Association at the Retreat at Twin Lakes (the HOA) whereby Trayvon’s parents agreed not to sue the HOA for the wrongful death of their son in exchange for the HOA paying them a certain sum of money. Although the specific terms of the agreement and the amount of the settlement have not been released to the public, I believe we can reasonably conclude that the HOA agreed to settle the case before trial because they believe that the jury will reject Zimmerman’s self-defense claim. If they had concluded that the jury would find him “Not Guilty,” they would not have had any reason to settle the case.
Benjamin Crump filed a copy of the confidential settlement agreement in Zimmerman’s criminal case file late last week after blacking out the settlement amount. He also provided copies to Bernie de la Rionda and Mark O’Mara.
The Clerk of the Court has since notified Crump that she does not believe she has a proper legal basis to keep the terms of the settlement agreement confidential. She told him that she will unseal the settlement agreement in 10 days, unless he obtains an order from Judge Nelson telling her not to do that.
Regardless what she does, the amount of the settlement probably will remain confidential since he blacked out the amount before he filed the agreement.
Since Crump was not required to announce or to file the settlement agreement, I have been attempting to figure out why he decided to file it and why he waited until the end of last week to do it.
I believe I know the answer.
When considered together with O’Mara’s recent decision to forego an immunity hearing later this month, members of the public now have two solid reasons to doubt O’Mara’s credibility and to question everything he has stated about the case. There cannot be any doubt that this is a devastating turn of events for the man who decided long ago to focus on wining his case in the court of public opinion where he believed he could control the message reported by the media before the trial started and hope that would somehow favorably influence a jury to find the defendant not guilty, despite the evidence. That strategy is falling apart.
I never believed his strategy made any sense unless he got very lucky and a racist Zimmerman supporter lied his way onto the jury with the intent of voting “not guilty,” regardless of the evidence. That seems about as likely to me as filling an inside straight on the draw in a game of poker. In other words, only suckers make that bet.
The inescapable reality is that this case will go to trial eventually and when it does, the jury will be instructed to decide the case based only on the evidence admitted during the trial. That jury, BTW, will have been screened as thoroughly as possible by the juror questionnaire and the use of individual voir dire to identify and excuse prospective jurors who may be biased or prejudiced.
Another inescapable reality is that the evidence admitted during the trial is going to paint a far different picture of the case against the defendant compared to the false and misleading narrative that O’Mara has been repeating at every available opportunity since he got involved in the case. To the extent that any members of the jury recall what he said before trial, they will soon realize that he did not know what he was talking about or he was lying. That most definitely is not a thought that O’Mara wants any juror to have during the trial.
Sooner or later, he will have to face the jury and present a coherent final argument for acquittal based on the evidence admitted during the trial.
Meanwhile, Mark O’Mara and Don West have been subjecting Benjamin Crump to a relentless effort to obtain a court order authorizing them to depose him regarding his contacts with W8, the witness known by the pseudonym Dee Dee assigned to her by the prosecution to protect her privacy. attack on his character and professional reputation in an effort to discredit W8, the witness known by the pseudonym Dee Dee assigned to her by the prosecution to protect her privacy.
Cellular phone records establish that Dee Dee and Trayvon spent many hours on their phones talking to each other on the day that George Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon. In fact the records show that their phones were connected [detail]. Therefore, Dee Dee is the only witness who was in contact with Trayvon during the approximate 30 minute period leading up to his death. In effect, she is Trayvon’s voice from the grave and she presents a problem to the defendant’s claim of self-defense because she told Bernie de la Rionda that Trayvon told her he was afraid of. He told her that he ran to escape from the creepy man and believed he had successfully eluded him until the man suddenly appeared nearby on foot. She heard Trayvon say, “What are you following me for? She heard a deeper voice respond, “What are you doing here? Then she heard what sounded like physical contact between the two followed by Trayvon screaming, “Get off.” She lost the connection and was unable to reconnect with Trayvon.
George Zimmerman fired the fatal shot approximately one minute later.
That shot is preceded by an agonized shriek that abruptly ends with the sound of the fatal gunshot. The shriek sounds inhuman and it lasts for 40 seconds. It sounds like a desperate and panicked child protesting the certainty of imminent death without knowing who is going to kill him and why he going to do it. The shriek is audible in the background of a recorded 911 call from a neighbor who lived close to the scene of the shooting.
The shriek far exceeds any horror that I have witnessed and it will likely continue to haunt me for the rest of my life.
The combination of Dee Dee’s testimony and the shriek pose a major problem to the defendant’s claim of self-defense.
The defense scheme to discredit Dee Dee and blame Ben Crump for suborning perjury for dollars
To cast doubt on Dee Dee’s credibility, Mark O’Mara and Don West have accused her of committing perjury and Ben Crump of suborning her perjury. Never mind that they have no evidence to support their claim that she committed perjury. However, they do have her admission that she lied to Bernie de la Rionda while under oath when she told him that she did not go to Trayvon’s funeral or wake because she was sick and stayed overnight in a hospital. Apparently, despite the lack of materiality, which is an essential element of a perjury charge, they believe that admission is sufficient to support an accusation that everything she said was a lie.
Calling her an admitted perjurer, they now accuse Ben Crump of convincing her to lie. They are basically accusing him of providing her with a script full of lies to repeat when she testifies at trial.
Yes indeed, despite a lack of any evidence O’Mara and West have accused Ben Crump of concocting a scheme to have Dee Dee lie during the trial in order to fool the jury into wrongfully convicting an innocent George Zimmerman of second degree murder thereby setting up multi-million dollar causes of action against George Zimmerman for wrongful death and the Homeowner’s Association for negligently appointing and failing to supervise his activities as the captain of the neighborhood watch program contributing to the wrongful death of Trayvon Martin.
Finally, they claim they must be permitted to depose him under oath regarding this scheme in order to adequately prepare for trial.
Even though there is no evidence that Benjamin Crump encouraged or attempted to encourage Dee Dee to lie about what Trayvon told her and even though there were other witnesses present when he interviewed her by telephone that the defense has not attempted to interview or to depose, defense counsel continue to repeat their false allegations about Benjamin Crump and insist that the defense will suffer irreparable harm if the court does not authorize the deposition. Of course, they do not explain why they would suffer irreparable harm.
Benjamin Crump actually is the person most likely to suffer irreparable harm, if the court were to authorize the deposition since he cannot answer any question regarding any discussions he had with his clients about Dee Dee and the civil causes of action against the HOA and George Zimmerman because those discussions were confidential and protected from disclosure by the attorney-client privilege. Discussions with his clients about George Zimmerman’s credibility and the probable result of his self-defense claim are also protected from disclosure by the attorney-client privilege. In addition, he cannot provide any notes he made regarding the questions that he decided to ask her and her responses to those questions since that subject matter is protected from disclosure as attorney work product. In addition, he would be justified in refusing to answer any questions about his plans to sue George Zimmerman. In short, there are very few questions that he could answer, if a deposition were to take place.
With his motives, character and professional reputation under relentless attack by defense counsel and unable to defend himself due to the attorney-client and work product privileges, Benjamin Crump did the only sensible thing he could do under the circumstances. He retained Bruce Blackwell to speak for him and defend him from the attempted character assassination.
Judge Nelson denied their motion to depose Ben Crump with a written opinion in which she found that as attorney for Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin, Ben Crump’s communications with them are protected from disclosure by the attorney-client privilege. She also ruled that he acted as opposing counsel when he recorded a telephonic interview with Dee Dee in early March and provided the FBI with the original recording. This finding is significant because an attorney cannot depose opposing counsel under Florida law. She also ruled that his efforts to locate and interview Dee Dee constituted attorney work product protected from disclosure. She summarily denied their motion to reconsider and clarify her decision.
They have now filed for a writ of certiorari in the Court of Appeals asking it to reverse Judge Nelson’s decision and order Ben Crump to submit to a deposition.
The Court of Appeals entered an order yesterday granting Bernie de la Rionda and Bruce Blackwell 20 days to respond to the defendant’s petition.
I believe Bruce Blackwell and Benjamin Crump decided to file the settlement agreement to accomplish two objectives:
1. To place indisputable documentary evidence in the record to support his claim that he represents Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton and that he acted on their behalf contrary and in opposition to George Zimmerman’s best interests in his criminal case. The agreement also firms up his argument that he is opposing counsel as it indicates his intent to sue George Zimmerman for causing the wrongful death of their son, Trayvon, after the criminal trial concludes.
2. To figuratively smack Mark O’Mara, Don West and their client where it hurts the most on the eve of trial by publicizing documentary evidence that Zimmerman’s employer, the HOA, does not believe Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense will prevail at the trial. Coming on the heels of O’Mara’s decision to waive the immunity hearing, which he attempted to conceal by falsely claiming he could always bring it up later, publication of the settlement agreement sends a clear message to anyone following the case that the defense is in deep trouble, notwithstanding O’Mara’s massive propaganda effort to convince the public that the prosecution has no case.
Lawyers are required to have a good faith basis for the statements, arguments and objections they make. They are prohibited from knowingly or intentionally misleading the Court. The defense attack on Ben Crump and Dee Dee is based on a fanciful theory that is not supported by the evidence or the law. For those two reasons, I do not believe the defense effort to discredit and demonize Dee Dee and Crump is being made in good faith. Instead, the defense effort reminds me of political strategies and arguments that Andrew Breitbart used to discredit Democratic Party candidates for national office. Such strategies and arguments have no place in a court of law.
Efforts to discredit people by character assassination, uttering false statements and misrepresenting existing evidence can cause unpleasant real-life consequences to the people targeted. Therefore, I am not only offended by the defense team’s choice of tactics, I am disgusted that the defense team decided to harm Dee Dee’s reputation and Ben Crump’s professional representation.
Good lawyers take pride in what they do and they do not tolerate unfounded attacks on their character and reputation. I believe Ben Crump and Bruce Blackwell are extremely offended by the continuing bad faith defense effort to discredit Dee Dee and destroy Ben Crump’s professional reputation with false statements and misrepresentation of existing evidence.
I think they decided to file the settlement agreement to counter the defense team’s false narrative and misleading argument that there is no evidence that refutes the defendant’s claim of self-defense.
O’Mara, West & Corey are educated to the level ~> Doctor of Jurisprudence. Guess which ONE I believe actually deserves the title?
New post up:
Gloom in Mudville: The defense is upside down by $10,000
New in the docket– motion to determine confidentiality of court records– does this mean there will be a hearing?
ay2z, I noticed on the courts site, page 2 Of Mr. Crumps’ document #2 is blacked out, however on Omar site it is not. hmmmm….
Also Omar did post correspondence from Atty Benjamin Crump.
IC finances are effecting that site too.
Xena says:
April 14, 2013 at 11:13 pm
I want that Tee!!! Speaking of which, why hasn’t Junior gotten a Tee with GZ’s pic and a slogan on it that he can sell to raise money? He can wear it during his media appearances. (Hehehehe
Yes that pic from LMPappas last vt with the shiteating grin a the cape an mortar hat.
Underneath the motto.
Z Mans thee Man.
Me two Rachel Im a pasafist but that smirk makes me want to pass a fist to the back of skull….Break his face never mind a nose,
pasafist! LOL 😆
except I kept getting the urge to kick his teeth out when I watched his stupid shit eating grin on Hannity. it was overwhelming.. I still get that feeling when I see a still of it to this day.
At least I know it isn’t just me. It really is like a reflex thing for me. And yes, it was and is still overwhelming.
well you are alone when it comes to stepping on a rake!!LOLOL I believed the cartoons!! 😉
and I left it up to my step brother to knock my front tooth out by slamming the door knob into my face!
FYI, no matter how much Elmer’s you use it won’t glue the tooth back on before your mom gets home and see you!
They probably didn’t have it back then, but superglue might have worked. LOL
Duping Delight
What is he pulling on us? Maybe he didn’t get his legal fees paid by Hannity, but he’s all (taking a cue from LLMPsps) ‘Chits n’ giggles’ when Hannity asks him to clear up, no legal fees paid thing. He got something for his appearance, and he delighted in the dupe.
(apologies Papa! Durned cat, can’t even blame for that typo!)
There is just something about that smirk that triggers my slapping reflex and makes me want to slap his lips right off of his face. And yes, it is very noticeable that it is there at all kinds of inappropriate times, not just when Hannity asks about legal fees – but watch him when he says that he said punks not coons.
You know, until I saw GZ, I never even knew I had a slapping reflex.
Yes!
(and in the interview with Serino, when he answers if he has trouble with black people?
The answer is different than other ‘no’ answers. More like ‘No-oh-ho-ho-ho’ with that sorta chuckle inflection.)
@ay2z.
Of course Zimmerman would chuckle over Serino’s question about “You have any problem with Back people?”
1) Zimmerman may be dumb as a peachpit, but if he knew if he uttered one racist word in acknowledment, he would be nailed on racial profiling;
2) As was evident, he has no problems with Blacks — within 10 minutes he shoots them. End of any potential “problem.”
Need a Monty Python Video Making Kit for your slap reflex. Don’t have one. 😦
I just don’t know what it is. I can have someone yell at me, get in my face and curse at me and I can deal with it. But that smirk is SO disrespectful and SO full of BS that it really makes me want to slap him. I don’t know how to explain it. It is just this automatic thing, like when you step on a rake and it hits you in the face (believe it or not, I did do that once as a kid to see if it was like in the cartoons – yes, it was and I did see stars). It is that automatic and that fast. I see that smirk and smack!
Rachel, it’s the sideways ‘I’m pulling one on you’ smirk, obviously pulling one over on the ‘masses’ is disrespecful and we are especially taken back as he does this on his big self-promo show as he talks about following and killing the unarmed child. He entered that confrontation knowing full well he could start something and in the darkness, before time ran out to do it, he could use his preparation to killl and become the hero he always imagined himself to be.
He actually broke into full smiles as he pulled this off.
Your bop bag is in the mail by UBS’. (United Bop Service) Add personalization with your dupe smirk face to the elephant.
http://www.amusetoysblog.com/storage/EcoBonkFlatSebastianRESIZED.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1329272857648
something like this would come in very “handy” for my slap hand reflex.
Yeah. LOL thanks
@Rachael
I know what you mean. Fogen evokes emotions in me that I didn’t know I had. It’s hard for me not to hate him and that racist family of his.
From the desk of racerrodig
Funny that you as a lady cite a “…slapping reflex…” As a man who has to deal with some ass’s in the realm of FogenPhoole, I have more of “I’ll phuck you up” reflex…..for killing that kid.
But, again, that’s just me. (Pardon my French)
@ay2z here you go http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCwLirQS2-o
@PiranhaMom
Now, now, defendant did say, didn’t he, that victim’s race had no weight in his decision to shoot him– he’d have done it to anyone!
@Cercando –
Right! Didn’t even have to be a member of the HUMAN race.
GZ said they bought the 9-shot automatic pistol to shoot a DOG.
(I live in farm country where it’s not unusual to have errant packs of dogs. I carry chew-sticks to throw at them. MilkBone is the best!)
I sure would like to see that broad grin when his GUILTY verdict is read, as well as his sentence. this LUMP OF NOTHING has really got some issues going on. I mean how in the hell do you murder a child, and then go on national TV do an interview about it with one of this country’s biggest racist and sit there smiling and smirking about it?
He will be more than deserving of the beat down that he will get, when he is locked up in a Florida prison. BTW, he won’t be in PC forever and, even then if someone wants to get to his ass bad enough they will find a way to do so. they are waiting for him and, it’s quite evident.
And not only interview, but say you have no regrets, would have done nothing different and it is all God’s plan. I don’t even believe in “God,” but that remark, on top of all else in that interview is where I lost any ability to give GZ ANY benefit of doubt.
Body language expert adds to observations.
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/07/19/george-zimmerman-body-language
Why can’t the Orlando Sentinel hire a decent journalist? I mean really!
Crump: Don’t unseal the $1 million-plus settlement Trayvon’s parents received
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-trayvon-hoa-settlement-crump-argument-20130415,0,3666179.story
Benjamin Crump has formally asked Circuit Judge Debra S. Nelson to make sure the specific amount of the $1 million-plus settlement Trayvon Martin’s parents reached with George Zimmerman’s home owners’ association be kept secret.
Trayvon’s parents, Crump wrote, “in no way wanted their son killed in order to pursue a civil settlement.”
Crump is the attorney for Trayvon’s parents, Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin, and on April 4, Crump filed a copy of the settlement under seal in George Zimmerman’s court case file at the Seminole County Courthouse.
A portion of it was available to the public for a short time the following day, but the total amount and the names of the parties making the settlement payments had been edited out.
On April 4, Seminole County Clerk of Courts Maryanne Morse notified Crump that she intended to unseal it, saying it did not meet the legal standard required of a confidential filing.
Actually, I think this is one of Stutzman’s more serviceable bare bones pieces — except for the part about figures and payers being “edited out.” Those specifics were redacted. At least in this report, she managed to present two views and some background on the clerk’s position.
If the Sentinel had anything on the ball, however, it would dig deeper and find some on-the-record sources willing to provide insights reflected in the professor’s Ben and Bruce post.
Sentinel subscribers/readers deserve to know not only who’s doing and saying what, but why they’re doing it.
redacted past participle, past tense of re·dact (Verb)
Verb
1: Edit (text) for publication.
2: Censor or obscure (part of a text) for legal or security purposes.
redacted =edited out
Info is “there” in the motion … it’s been redacted via being blacked over, not “edited out.” Moreover, if sentences or phases actually had been removed or added, the revosed motion would have been edited. Just plain edited.
P.S. Am in total snippy bitch/bastard mode, due to coffee maker just having blown a gasket.
This just edited (not redacted): Revised, not revosed.
Jamie Foxx Makes A Bold Statement With Trayvon Martin Tee
http://globalgrind.com/style/2013-mtv-movie-awards-red-carpet-jamie-foxx-trayvon-martin-shirt-photos?gpage=4&#gtop
Jamie Foxx took to the carpet, and later the stage, wearing a shirt adorned with the faces of Trayvon Martin and the young children who lost their lives tragically at Sandy Hook Elementary.
I want that Tee!!! Speaking of which, why hasn’t Junior gotten a Tee with GZ’s pic and a slogan on it that he can sell to raise money? He can wear it during his media appearances. (Hehehehe)
“Subtle as Jamie’s look was, it served as a reminder to us all that we must never forget the senseless acts of violence that led to the loss of those young lives.”
Oops, now he will! I strongly suggest “Free the Sanford 1” – my apologies to the creator of that statement! 😀
Yes, excellent Tee.
I’ve been picturing a blue Tee with a graphic of Papa and Crane on their Blue Honda Shadow, framed in a obder of orange, red, yellow, green bell peppers and pomegranates.
Sleeveless lightweight Tee with a hoodie, just because. Cool!!
Xena,
How would he frame Big Z’s portrait? With all the shooters from all the pointless killings since 2/26/12?
The Z slogan could be “No Justice, Please”
There was one person missing on that shirt that should have definitely had his likeness on there. Jordan Davis’s face should have been on there as well. They have made up some bracelets for Jordan and, if you send a self addressed envelope to his parent’s attorney’s office, you can get one and, it’s free. I will find that address and post it here.
@Xena, I would love to have one of those T-shirts as well.
SG2~ GOOD! The more people connect faces and names to gun deaths, the more reform we can enact to save more lives.
An email i sent to mister nutcracker….Kelly Payne
Dear Mr cracker or Bradman which ever you prefer. Your continued lies and slander against Trayvon and his family are quite disgusting. You know as well as i do That Trayvon was not killed in self defense. You also know as well as i do that Trayvon was begging for his life when he was killed. You know as well as i do that Zimmerman had Trayvon restrained by his shirts when he killed him. Trayvon was no match for a 208lb bouncer by himself in a fair fight Zimmerman could have snapped his neck like a twig. But we know based on the evidence you chose to ignore that Trayvon never touched him. In a fair fight the police would have found an unconscious teenager and an angry adult. Whether Trayvon missed 53 days of school is unknown,but highly unlikely because in most states if your child missed more than 20 he is called truant and the parents are taken to court. There are no known reports of Trayvon being deeply involved in drugs. Smoking weed a few times with your friends does not make you deeply involved in drugs.Also not relevant Another one of your lies. You are taking advantage of peoples ignorance and stupidity. The only one with a thug history is Zimmerman. Now you have a new one,Trayvon has a suppressed Criminal record. he never had any record. you are making assumptions and lying. No one knows why he was transferred from his other school there was a rumor he was bullied at that other school which was never confirmed. Also not relevant. You mention MMA style blows. an obvious lie. Trayvon never knew martial arts mixed or otherwise.If he had Zimmerman would have ended up in the hospital and Trayvon would still be alive. The man who said that has changed his story numerous times. His gun was on his right rear hip. It would have been impossible for him to grab it the way he described. Trayvon would never have seen it. the only way he could have grabbed his gun the way he described is if he knocked trayvon off then grabbed his gun aimed and shot him. His head was never repeatedly slammed into the sidewalk for nearly a minute.If it had he would not have been in any condition to fire a gun.Those injuries on the back of his head are 1 round puncture wound and 1 inch long cut.the blood from those wounds flow toward his face.He was not on his back when he got those injuries. . He did not get those from a side walk. He got those from a metal object. Trayvon never tried to smother him another obvious lie. He was never punched in the face 12 times or 30-40 times. All he had were scratches. no bruising no swelling no black eyes no broken nose. As for lying Zimmerman has done nothing but lie. maybe you and him belong together. Whether Dee Dee went to Trayvon’s funeral or to the hospital or somewhere is irrelevant and not material to the case.the only thing relevant is why there was a funeral in the first place.
If Zimmerman had left Trayvon alone he wouldn’t be in trouble. You continue to trot out that lie that Trayvon was a gang member despite the fact he was unarmed. No gang member goes anywhere with out their weapons which these days would be a gun. If trayvon had been a gang member he would have put a bullet in his head just for following him. And we would never have heard of Zimmerman he would just be another statistic. You call trayvon a thug while trying to intimidate a witness. Which as it turned out those girls were not the Dee Dee you have been looking for. Keep it up when you get criminal charges you will have no one to blame but yourself. You so called conservatives always talk about morals christian values honesty and decency. You have no morals you are not honest and you were never a decent man. You are not a christian either. A true christian would not pull the crap you’ve been pulling and he would not support a murderer and slander a murder victim. I can’t speak for the Martin/Fulton family but if it were me i would have sued you long ago. So keep.posting those lies. You will eventually Dig yourself a hole you can’t get out of. There is never a justification for killing an unarmed person,especially a kid. If someone hits you you hit them back you don’t use a gun. Have a nice day KELLY D PAYNE
Kelly, your writing is like the 50-lb roast turkey at Grandmother’s farmhouse on Thanksgiving – took a prodigious effort to develop it to this giant size, to prep and serve it – it’s intimidating as all get-out when you look at the bulk of it … but boy, when you’ve got a family as big as ours, WHAT SUSTENANCE!
A blockbuster!
Thank you.
Who will post comment #1,000 on “Ben & Bruce?”
It’s over 930 posts now, at a freckle past 8:00 p.m. EDT on Sunday. Tough to follow!
@kllypyn
Excellent post refuting all of the lies coming from the tree house!
@Kelly, this is very well spoken and straight to the point. from what I’ve heard or read, there will be some people at the tree stump facing charges for their evil deeds and, they will be well deserved. it’s OK for ignorant people to support someone who has killed an innocent child in cold blood. but, they do not have to smear and slander this child and his family, and this is exactly what these IGNORANT DISRESPECTFUL IMBECILES have been doing since day one.
They were dog whistled out of their respective closets by of all people, a man of the cloth. imagine that, a man who some call Reverend has involved himself in this most despicable campaign of defaming a murdered child. may this man burn in hell for all of eternity because, there is no way St Peter will even look at him, let alone give his ass a pass to walk through the pearly gates of heaven.
His wretched old bigoted racist hands should burn each and every time he touches a bible. this just goes to show, that even the devil can say that he’s been called to preach. but, the devil can do a lot as it goes, the devil can preach, the devil can sing but most of all, “THE DEVIL CAN’T PRAY.”
Are you saying he’s a preacher too?
@Kelly, if you are asking me if I’m saying that SDC is a preacher, no I’m talking about someone else who is actually a preacher, who was very instrumental in starting this smear campaign of Trayvon, not long after he was murdered. I don’t remember the man’s name right now but, he is suppose to be a man of the cloth, when he is actually the devil himself.
FROM THE DESK OF LONNIE STARR:
Let’s be clear. Like the false narrative of Trayvon fighting with GZ that could not possibly have happened at all, without Trayvon getting some evidence of it on his hands and/or sleeves. We have another false narrative here, that is causing people to think that slandering Trayvon Martin might, somehow prove Fogen innocent. The truth is it cannot.
It could be discovered that Trayvon was the reincarnation of Al Capone, the Marquis de Sade, Mephistopheles and Jack the Ripper all rolled into one. It would have absolutely no bearing on this case at all, and cannot even be allowed into evidence!
Why? Well, because there is absolutely no possible way to create any foundation, that is needed to make such fact relevant. Fogen did not say “I know from the records I’ve read of this suspicious persons history, that he is a terrible criminal who will do terribly and dangerous things”. What he said, in fact was: ” There’s a black guy walking in the rain who I don’t know from Adam. I’ve never seen him before, so I don’t know anything about him. But, I’ve made up my mind that he’s a horrible person about to do terrible things, even though I have absolutely no good reason to feel this way!”
Fogen’s right to act on his imaginings ends with calling NEN! Anything more he decides to do, based upon his suspicions, are things that he has not only agreed not to do, but some of which will also be illegal.
Thus, all proving that Trayvon had a history of violence would do in this case is, establish that he was able to defend himself! While the law says that according to the evidence and testimony, he clearly has a legal right to do so. So, at law, there is nothing at all to be gained by proving Trayvon Martin was anything more than a physically disadvantaged victim.
Vilifying Trayvon is a useless exercise that will bear no fruit at trial. Since proving him capable of self defense, does nothing to prove that he wasn’t a victim of unlawful transgression upon his rights. Thus this useless exercise will only serve to make jurors even more unlikely to believe the false story of innocence that Fogen is trying to sell. Any and all efforts spent to this end will be summarily wiped out by the judges instructions to the jury, which will say that Trayvon had a right to defend himself, if Fogen had given him cause to fear for his safety. NOT who threw the first punch, but, who first broke the rules and the law.
TO: The Desk of Lonnie Starr
FROM: The Mount Olympus Office of Xena
BINGO!
It’s my impression that the Zidiots believe that if they can somehow prove that Trayvon was a thug, it will prevail over the charging affidavit that GZ wrongfully profiled Trayvon. However, as you have also correctly pointed out, GZ admitted to knowing nothing about Trayvon other than his physical appearance.
In case anyone hasn’t noticed, Zidiots are going by the charging affidavit attempting to taint each fact, starting with GZ’s admitted following of Trayvon, then to DeeDee, and now to the profiling. They are kicking against the bricks because none of their theories prove that GZ killed Trayvon in self-defense
EXACTLY XENA: They are trying to prove racial superiority, which is exactly what they are trying to deny was the cause of the problem. Go figure. Like Jr saying “I’m not a racist but all blacks are risky”?!? His ability to say incredibly stupid things with a straight face, is what makes him a valuable media commodity. The fact that he actually believes what he’s saying, means it’s like finding an actual “Ripley’s Believe it or not” character in real life to put on the screen.
From the desk of racerrodig
Well said Lonnie. I’ve stated before and I’ll say it again. Fogen didn’t have the right to stop and question Adolph Hitler, let alone shoot if, if he saw him walking down Main St. It’s a fact, but he has the right to profile, stalk, detain and murder a minor child for walking in the rain.
From the TV tray of Lynn
@ladystclaire
The man’s name is Terry Jones.
His church was called Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Fl.
He has since moved down to the Tampa Bay area in Florida and is associated with Stand Up America.
He is a free speech nut and is as hateful as Westboro Baptist. I’m not providing a link but google will provides pages full of his hatred.
My daughter went to school in Gainesville and he was an embarrassment to the town.
From the desk of RACHAEL S
Exactly. There is NOTHING there that happened back THEN that has anything to do with what happened that night. They can look for all the dirt on Trayvon they want, but even if he did smoke or even sell pot, even if he did steal some jewelry, even if he did pain graffiti, NONE of that has ANYTHING to do with that night. GZ did NOT see Trayvon smoking or selling drugs, he did NOT see Trayvon stealing any jewelry, he did NOT see Trayvon painting any graffiti. He called the police because in his mind, Trayvon looked suspicious.
At that point, there was NOTHING more GZ should have done. He had called the police, it was their job to check it out and his job to get out of it.
Instead he got in and messed things up. He killed a kid, he messed up his own life that was already a mess, he has caused all of this because of his own selfish desire to get himself into it, to be a hero, whatever, and if that group of refuse at the outhouse wants to talk law suits, it is the police who should be suing GZ for all the extra work that he made them do, the trauma they had to deal with – believe me, police officers do NOT like looking at dead kids and well, I’m just getting off on a tangent here.
But no matter how bad you make Trayvon, his family, DeeDee, their dog, their cat, whatever look, it has nothing to do with that night and there is nothing in that “bomb” that SD dropped that has any bearing on the fact that GZ shot and killed Trayvon who, by his own statement, was doing nothing more than walking in the rain and somehow did not look right to him.
GZ on his own admission took anything after that on himself. And there is a REASON the police tell laymen not to take it upon themselves. There are reasons why NW rules tell people not to take these things on themselves. And GZ has just provided the perfect example of why not to.
Trayvon isn’t there to tell us what happened that night so we can only go by what we know. We know that GZ pursued, shot and killed Trayvon Martin. Anything else we don’t know, we only have the word of a liar with a previous background. All the thugification and all the villianization of Trayvon and his family doesn’t change the facts.
We can only go by what we DO know. And we ALL know what that is.
Xena, wasn’t the news reporting about the jewelry and screwdriver based on a word of mouth account? Well, I call that heresy. I am sure that O’Mara found nothing about it in Trayvon’s school records. Also, Trayvon was never arrested or charged with anything.
O’Mara cannot introduce heresy into court.
just do what the media does
stick a mic and camera and broadcast their ignorance to millions of people, and then see how quickly they want to apologize and sherm back into their holes
It happened to that White Chick being racist to Asian people
and it happened to that chick from california who called the president a “N Word”
I say, if you truly want to speak like that, at least have the balls and audacity to say it in front of millions of people and see how they react… I bet they will not like reactions of the majority of people
I’m glad you sent this, Kelly.
Me too.
@kllypyn
Bravo! Excellent post!
You DID that!
wow, so i just wasted valuable sunday time reading mr. cracker’s cache of evidence gathered from his FOIA. i have two takeaway observations.
1. sgt. randy smith of the SPD calls the defendant an idiot. AND
2. the software used by miami-dade PD which comes under heavy complaint is designed, maintained and serviced by my husband’s company, i likely have better access to these files than ole mr. cracker himself, however unethical it may be.
I think “ole mr. cracker” has done cracked up.
@rachael
sadly, he never was all that he was cracked up to be.
might just be smoking crack, but he sure as heck thinks he’s cracking this case wide open. in the end, the cracker is him.
faux, mr. cracker comment he should request FOIA info on Corys’ office. He also commented that the FOIA was on scribd.com, I searched nothing is on scribd and everything leads directly back to mr. cracker.
Me thinks tree stump hugger is hacking info.
Doxxing the two wrong teenage girls searching the internet for DD, posting their personal info and private pics is criminal. They did not even own up to what the did wrong. And keep posting those girls info. I hope their parents sue, a bunch of dirty ole’ men scouring through teenage girls personal info and posting private pic PED-O-PHILES!!!!
ic, at one point they dicussed moving their 1000 page FOIA treasure into a safe webspace. It was a highly conspiratorial enterprise, discussions about passwords for a secret elect membership. SD, I think asked members about the best solution. Does scribd offer public and private space? If so, that may have been the ultimate choice. The planning did not suggest a public solution to me. So that may be why you only find it on their site, but not on scribed.
Hi LeaNdr.
I missed those discussions about them moving it to scribd, I did read mr. cracker post about how FOIA dump is over at scribd.
I did find that scribd does offer private:
All iPaper documents are hosted on Scribd. Scribd allows published documents to either be private or open to the larger Scribd community
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scribd
Its’ a bit late for CYA mode with those docs. If there is any wron doing itwill be found out. Use of the term ‘FOIA is the back door to info is a red flag.
It just occurred to me what the prosecution has. The prosecution has a witness who has NOT told the whole story in his or her statement, but who, since the time of giving the statement, has revealed something else. That witness does NOT want to testify about the further information. The prosecution will reveal it if necessary but only if necessary. I believe there is a reason for this and that the reason is something we probably cannot guess, at least at this point.
HEY WAIT A MINUTE, isn’t Frank Taaffe a homeowner there? How come nobody has taken a comment from HIM about the settlement with the Estate of Trayvon Martin? Woooooooaaaaah!
@Malisha,
Didn’t Frank already state, “Ain’t gonna’ …. expletive, expletive, expletive …. “?
@PiranhaMom
I do remember last year Frank tweeted , “questioned by FDLE and I ain’t give ’em shyte’. There was more his twitter since has been closed. I am searching for that tweet. However, here is a link that shows how disrespectful, hateful and racist Taaffe really is:
http://dothprotesttoomuch.com/2012/11/03/meet-francis-taaffe/
It also includes when Franks’ dui Laffy Taffee dance, too funny.
Thanks, ic2 – that Taaffe is a MESS.
Actually, someone did. Francis was not happy about it and thought homeowners should have had some say-so about it, if I remember correctly.
If Taaffe is in foreclosure, then he is no longer the owner of his home, and might not have a vote anymore with the HOA.
To Southern Lady and other’s who are interested in Rene Stutzman, sorry, I have no time to proofread this, and the whole exchange would be to long. It’s long now anyway. I hope you understand:
Trayvon Martin’s parents settle wrongful-death claim
Contacted by Walter.Steinway-at-gmailcom what interview she was referring to, she answered it was an interview by herself with O’Mara on February 26, 2013. Asked for more exact details, she did not respond anymore anymore.
A rather complicated series of exchanges with the inbound service department on Orlando Sentinel if they could provide more details finally led to this:
We are happy to inform you that we found an article from Rene Stutzman on February 26, 2013 edition. The title was “On anniversary of Trayvon’s death, quest for answers, healing continues” it was in section A1. We regret to inform you that you need to sign up online to get an access or view our website.
Look that up yourself, as far as I can tell at least the online version of this article contains no trace of O’Mara see February 25, 2013: “Anniversary of Trayvon Martin’s death: A time of waiting.”
Now this is her latest response to me, I cc’d my question to Howard Greenberg her boss, somehow hoping this might help. Again asking for her help concerning “the interview” she had with O’Mara supposedly on February 26.
Am I supposed to believe she interviewed O’Mara before the printing process was completed and the paper sent out in the early morning hours after midnight? Which strictly would make it February 26. But she clearly picked up on the narrative provided to me by the service lady, and her earlier confirmation of the date of the interview to Walter. I have not mentioned a video in mail, but I asked the service for that two. So she may have looked into these exchanges.
Sorry, German header, I also need to exchange arrows around her email address with square brackets, otherwise the WordPress software will read it as an html tag seemingly making disappear at least in my htlm preview website, my emphasis:
No idea when she interviewed him, but considering, and strictly I do not believe a word she writes apart from the fact that she spoke at length with O’Mara, but also doubt it was on February 26, when details fit all to well into an article in April. Besides I find her choice of date maybe since I do not believe it slightly provocative.
Wouldn’t it make much more sense in the context of the latest Team Fogen motions she ardently supported?
VERY interesting.
Nice job, LeaNder. Stutzman is such a tool.
yes she is
@amsterdm1234, IMO Stutzman is an ass wipe plain and simple!
@ladystclaire
I despise her.
Good job, LeaNder! Mad props!
Other than the ongoing consensus on Stutzman’s remarkably mediocre to sub-par reporting, I think the current beef is mostly a waste of time to chew on here.
Stutzman likely puts in a call to O’Mara’s office at least daily, if not several times daily. She’s been tailgating him for more than a year now as part of her job, during which time they’ve talked face-to-face, one-on-one, at press conferences, via phone, via e-mail, and with voice-mail messages. She may have a cache of unpublished quotes that she’s holding in abeyance for down the line. Or not.
MOM may have tipped her about the settlement weeks ago, but off the record. Or maybe he never said a word, but due to shabby writing and/or sloppy editing, he often appears to be her source. It’s pretty clear to me that BDLR isn’t playing ball with anyone out there in media land.
Hence it’s easy for Stutzman to be criticized for hanging on to O’Mara’s every word. He’s all she has, given that it’s also fairly obvious that the Sentinel has not (as of yet) staffed up to cover this case as did media for the Sandusky scandal. One former South Florida reporter won a Pulitzer for her breaking news stories on Penn State’s coverup.
One thing to know: Some newspaper lawyers advise reporters to get rid of their sourcebooks and notes on napkins the moment a story hits print. It’s a protective mechanism, and the thinking is that what gets published is what stands. If it didn’t get published, whoever said what and when they said it doesn’t count. The message: “so don’t bother to subpoena our reporters’ notes cause we ain’t got any.”
That doesn’t mean raw copy originally filed by the reporter before an editor gets hold of it doesn’t remain in the system for a while. But not forever.
Other things to know: The on-line product for metro dailies has become a beast constantly needing to be fed. What gets posted online frequently gets updated, but that has no bearing on what gets published in print for home delivery or inother print editions for newsstand sales.
In many if not most cases, different editors deal with print than do the on-line product. Reporters love to bitch and moan about this.
Nobody’s going to heap accolades onto the Sentinel for its overall coverage of this tragedy, or hand Stutzman high praise for her reportage.
But in my opinion, copying Howard Greenberg or hassling staffers on timing of interviews or where and when Stutzman got her info is a total waste of time except for creating plenty of laughs in the newsroom. All that will be forthcoming, and typicallyfrom a clerical type, at that, is a PBO — polite brush off.
thanks, Trained Observer, exquisite response.
Yes, shoddy reporting, but if I may beg to differ slightly. The Orlando Sentinel had a clear pro SPD and now has a clear pro defense slant, to the point of printing Madame Zimmerman’s letter and ignoring the response by the family. Also leading the pack concerning the get Crump crowd. And this special addition triggered quite a bit of the kind of voices all over the comment sections that picked it up, I detest to read. To be quite honest.
Also, the questions never end, strictly I wonder if that not only has Howard Greenberg’s consent but is what he wants the reporting to be like? … That was what the cc was for among others. Not a good point maybe, but strictly an angle that even influenced the NYT whose “journalist” copied exactly that passage dropping the “interview” only. Which as I wrote on a different thread, Jeff Weiner avoided who clearly stated in the only time he used the word interview in the Orlando’s Zimmerman reporting thus: in an interview with the Orlando Sentinel. Why did she want to disguise it was her own interview? Or do you think the editor cut that out? Would both editors in print and online edition agree to cut it out? Why not in Weiner’s story then?
Interesting too, since it shows us that O’Mara not only knew but spoke to her about matters while he had West mainly write the motions concerning Benjamin Crump’s deposition, arguing that Crump wasn’t “opposing counsel”.
Was it more a generally discussion concerning this core aspect of the case for several month now the two had and it suddenly entered her mind while reporting on the settlement?
Besides I am still trying to get hold of the article she alludes to. For one reason only, I want to know if that angle is still stronger in the print edition which may well influence jury members. Since I gave up on dealing with the service and the tricks that keep foreigners out due to missing US zip codes and addresses and phone numbers, this is my only hope. Unfortunately while the article links to them, they do not list the Orlando Sentinel in their database of newspapers covered.
She didn’t cite him at all in the online edition. Does she occasionally not cite him but simply give voice to him through his articles without attributing it to him?
I want to know what specific angle people in the area are presented with via her articles in the print editions. If there is a difference and it is even worse there?
Concerning the laugh for the newsroom, I am absolutely pleased, if I could help with a good one. Laughter is the most important mood enhancer. So yes, why not?
I am simply picking up with unitron’s obsession with media misinformation from a slightly different angle, you know.
LeaNder What does Howard Greenberg want reporting to be like? These days, I think he wants it to be … veeeery safe and non-actionable.
Tribune Co. earlier this year emerged from a protracted bankruptcy and it’s still not out of the woods financially. Circulation and readership continues to decline.
Amid Tribune personnel carnage at every level, Howard Greenberg, thus far, has been an executive survivor, just as Stutzman has avoided getting the “you’ve just been down-sized, here’s your severance package ” tap on the shoulder that has decimated Trib newsrooms.
One thing ‘sfor sure: Greenberg comes not from the newsroom, but from ranks of advertising and marketing. He cares about making money, not so much about snappy headlines, relentless, insightful reporting or journalism prizes. And he sure as hell doesn’t want his papers plagued by any lawsuits. Many South Floridians figure he’s where he is at the moment to affect a merger between the Sentinel and the Sun-Sentinel.
Here’s a bio snippet : Howard Greenberg, President and CEO of Sun-Sentinel Company of Tribune Publishing Co., Inc. since May 29, 2007 also has been publisher of the South Florida Sun-Sentinel of Tribune Co., since May 2007, and has been an Interim publisher of Orlando Sentinel Communications Co. since February 2008. He served as Senior V.P. and General Manager of Sun-Sentinel Company since April 2005 and was promoted to Managing Director. He had been with the Fort Lauderdale-based Sun-Sentinel since 1984. He’s served as the Chairman of the Board of Directors for The Broward Alliance, Broward County’s public/private economic development organization, and serves as a board member for the Jack & Jill Children’s Center.
You’d think anyone on Jack & Jill’s board would be appalled that someone like Fogen would be allowed to get anywhere near kids — if indeed Fogen actually was a mentor through a community program. You’d think he’d send word down the pipeline to city desk to have someone, if not Stutzman, look into whether that mentoring schtick was even remotely true — and who was responsible for letting a guy with his kind of rap sheet near kids. But no … apparently not.
Yes, I am very, very aware of that too. I did in fact look into matters too, believe me. It started with thinking loud or in words somewhere here in the comment section. Unitron, commented at the time, “cyno-ironically”, that I remember, not nearly as eloquently and informed as you, though.
I am also, very, very aware of the state of the newspaper market.
Hmmm? That I didn’t know. OK, you think it was Jack & Jill and not Big Brother/Big Sister? If you come from the news business, how about finding out which it was? Or better still if it wasn’t only on Fogen’s mind due to the enormous amount of advertising they seem to make? I have seen neither coming forward independently to confirm his story. Yes, I am hard to convince, sometimes. 😉
Look, Trained Observer, let me confess. In my earliest encounters with the Trayvon Martin tragedy, a former man of US military intelligence, whose blog I have read for close to a decade, since he was a critic of the WOT, wrote in a comment something to this effect:
There have been rumors circling around Jose Baez, you will remember. There was also a phone call by Fogen in which he told a male that O’Mara would contact this mysterious sponsor circle, if I remember correctly. If there is a low in the money box of Team Fogen, does that mean that these interested parties have disappeared, that they have lost interest? Or concerning the widespread contempt against it’s all the fault of the media, have they decided in line with O’Mara to shape public opinion to their advantage? My blog friend at the time noticed my immense reaction and the whole article including comment disappeared. If he had advised them or O’Mara–consider he even signed the White House petition for GZ–I am pretty sure he would have advised them to sponsor more underhandedly.
As a PR adviser I had to know the media trade, believe me, it’s all about getting journalists to frame stories to your advantage. I may be completely wrong but considering that the Jury comes from the place the Orlando Sentinel covers, I would assume that one of O’Mara’s PR spokesman’s special focuses is local.
Do you have an idea what the exact circulation of the Sentinel is these days?
Ok, Jack & Jill, interesting.
I don’t think either organization would volunatarily come forward if indeed either one had signed Fogen on as a mentor.
LeaNder — To be clear, I mentioned Greenberg has served as a board member for Jack & Jill in Broward, and said that anyone serving on such a board should be appalled that a guy like Fogen was involved (if indeed he was) with a mentoring program.
So I don’t understand your question about how I “think it was Jack and Jill, not Big Brother/Big Sister.”
Are you suggesting some people think Fogen was involved with Big Brothers/Big Sisters? I have no idea.
Frankly, what I DO think is that there’s a good chance Fogen was lying about his alleged mentoring activity, period. My point was/is that if Greenberg is even remotely interested in enterprise reporting for his paper (which I doubt), he ought to have reporters look into exactly what Sanford area children’s program Fogen was associated with (if any) or at least what Sanford area children he was exposing to his twisted notions. That’s all the more important, given accusations from his cousin on child molestation.
“Do you have an idea what the exact circulation of the Sentinel is these days?” — LeaNder
Not for this hot second, but here’s from a year ago …
Orlando Sentinel: 2012 Audit Report – March 2012. Day of Week, Total Average Circulation. Sunday, 287,642. Monday, 134,682. Tuesday, 134,862. Wednesday …
From Two Sides :”…don’t think either organization would volunatarily come forward if indeed either one had signed Fogen on as a mentor.”
Ha, and for sure, Two Sides. T
These are tough economic times for non-profit executive directors, trying to maintain programs with dwindling donor dollars.
Who’s gonna raise their hand or give the Sentinel a call to announce their procedures for investigating “character and background” are so poor that they let a guy like Fogen into their child care midst?
That’s part of what newspapers are supposed to be for: To dig up such info for the public good.
Hello everyone, this letter I have read dated June 1, 2012 Exhibit B, pages 7 & 8, the name of sender is blacked out, has me wondering. The unknown sender wrote they hired Daniel Santaniello and Paul Jones of the law firm of Luks, Santaniello,Petrillo and Jones to respresent RATL HOA and additional insureds with drafting the release.
It further goes on to read, ‘They may contact you’. A copy of this letter was sent to Fogen c/o Mark O’mara
Click to access mot_to_unseal.pdf
I wonder did Santaniello and Jones called O’mara or vice versa? I also wonder just how much more was sent to O’mara regarding the settlement.
Mr. Crump wrote in his Opposition confidential parties objection and intent to intervene and be heard in Court. That means any conversations O’mara may have had regarding the settlement will come out. This is very important showing that he is Mr. Crumps’ opposing counsel.
What the heck Omar! When those attorneys have their say he’ll have some ‘splaning to do.
From the TV tray of Lynn
I looked at those papers again and maybe someone can clarify something for me.
I see where Crump sent a letter to RATL in May to preserve evidence.
Then in June, the letter you mention looks to me like it is the insurance company telling the insured, RATL (including board members, property mgrs and “volunteers”), that it’s giving up the money and are waiting to see if they (Crump/Martins) accept.
There was mediation and then a confidential decision in October, right?
I try and follow the flow and read between the lines.
Two things stick out to me.
One is the “volunteer” listed under the INSURED. At the end it lists GZ c/o MOM as the volunteer.
Two is the release of liability the insurance is demanding.
Could it be that Crump rejected this offer because it would mean they couldn’t sue Fogen separately?
They seemed to sneak “Volunteers” in there like they are automatically covered. Doesn’t seem right to me. What do you guys think?
@Lynn,
That’s a very, very perceptive catch, Lynn.
And perceptive of Crump, assuming he caught it, too.
To be precise, Tracy and Sybrina would have filed a CLAIM against the HOA, which the HOA sent on to their insurance carrier. Tracy and Sybrina did not sue any volunteers, or UPS drivers, or landscapers, or postal workers, etc. Tracy and Sybrina would have made a claim against the HOA for the HOA’s NEGLIGENCE: among other things, in its lack of supervision of one of its “volunteers.” The HOA failed its DUTY to control the actions of the volunteer it APPOINTED, BLESSED, and PROMOTED – all the while doing NOTHING about complaints coming in that said this “volunteer” was harassing people, was dangerous, and focused on black youth above all else.
Zimmerman was not threatened with suit in that claim; the HOA was.
So Tracy and Sybrina would NOT ACCEPT a “settlement” from someone who was NOT a target of their claim: Zimmerman.
Therefore, they would NOT grant him a “release.” The threat of that lawsuit against the HOA NEVER involved GZ. GZ is not a member of the HOA. He’s a non-paying renter of somebody else’s property.r.
A squatter.
Like those guys living under the bridge.
From the TV tray of Lynn
@PiranhaMom
Thank you. I see that in Crumps May letter to preserve evidence (which is actually a REAFFIRMATION of Natalie Jackson’s request from Mar 14th) that he requests “Name of the Insurer(s)” and “Name of each insured”. Do you think GZ is listed in that reply? Wasn’t there a date for Aug concerning this? I seem to remember someone mentioning an Aug settlement. Was it agreed upon in Aug and filed in Oct?
@Lynn & PiranhaMom
Reading your breakdowns of that letter now makes sense. Including Fogen ‘volunteer’ with insured parties also says HOA and the insurance company admit to their responsibility of Fogens’ actions.
Good that Mr. Crump would not allow them to include Fogen in that settlement.
No wonder Omar is hopping mad. Mr. Crump gave Omars’ legal briefs a major wedgie.
I do believe Omar argued with Santiello and Jones insurance lawyers for RATL and its’ insureds and possibly Mr. Crump not to exclude Fogen. More proof that Mr. Crump is opposing counsel.
The letter also stated that information is confidential. At his first opportunity Omar gave that interview regarding the settlement. Seems the lawyers let that slide, but now Omar is stirring the pot to have it unsealed. Mr. Crump has backup from the concerned confidential parties who object to unseal. That means we should see Motions from them also objecting and request to be heard in court regarding the issue.
From the TV tray of Lynn
@ic2fools
ROTFLMAO
I keep reading and it keeps getting clearer.
I’ll give you my take on it.
Crump denied having GZ on the settlement. This is why we see MOM whining at point 8 in his motion.
He says he received the Notice of Filing, BUT not the unredacted or redacted settlement.
If he was a party to this he would have his own copy. So I assume GZ was left off the final suit/settlement.
I reread the title “Motion to unseal informantion listed as cofidential information within a court filing or IN THE ALTERNATIVE DEMAND FOR SPECIFIC DISCOVERY”
That’s MOM’s real beef in this matter! He’s clueless. He wants to know about the suit cause he knows he’s next! He yakked on about financial gain and bias…yada, yada, because he wants a copy of what he can’t see. It’s driving him nuts 🙂 In the alternative…LOL Well, Judge, if you won’t unseal it can I just get my own copy? PLEEEAASSEE!!!
From the TV tray of Lynn
I reread Crumps response to this again. In point 2 he mentions that the releasing and released parties agreed to kept it confidential as part of the settlement, therefore if Fogen was a party to this he would be breaking his own agreement. MOM wanting what he can’t have. Too Bad. So Sad.
Lynn when Fogen ‘volunteer’ was removed from as an insured, then Omar did not and would not be privy to anything about the settlement.
Yepper Omar is going bonkers, Mr. Crump and the other attorneys for confidential parties are going to block Omar at every turn. His motion is going to be denied. To me the settlement does not have any bearing regarding Fogen Murder2 trial date. He is wasting time and those donations on a matter that will even be brought into the trial.
So far defense has only spent 35k towards defense, 56k on security still owes 28k that’s 84k on security and 60k on Fogen living expense. Backwards don’t cha know, bare bones on actual defense itself.
I could be wrong, but O’Mara can see anything that’s filed in the case. Sealing it keeps it from the public. IOWs, O’Mara wants it unsealed so that he can give it to the media.
O’Mara is probably suffering from a severe case of rejection. The State won’t connect the dots for him. He has discovery material that he does not understand, a client who can’t keep his story straight, and probably a revolving door for interns. He would no doubt be willing to pick any fight he can just to release his frustration.
Xena, Omar is the only one who wants settlement in public, he is foaming at the mouth to release any and all info regarding it. To further bully, intimidate those who are involed.
Omar reasonable thinking and decision making one helluva slippery slope.
I do have a question, can Omar represent Fogen in a civil suit? Its’ not even his field of law.
@ic2fools
Since O’Mara hired, retained or whatever, attorneys to file GZ’s suit against NBC, chances are that he is not comfortable in civil cases other than family. O’Mara concentration is mainly divorce.
I believe O’Mara is functioning as local counsel (i.e., admitted to the Florida bar) for the Philadelphia lawyer who filed the complaint. MOM’s primary responsibilities will be to advise the other guy regarding Florida laws and procedures and to review and cosign pleadings.
The Philadelphia lawyer will have to file a motion to be admitted pro hac vice, if he has not already done so.
There’s no hurry, since the parties have agreed to stay the lawsuit until after the criminal case is resolved.
There’s a good chance that a jury will convict the defendant and the civil suit will be dismissed.
@Professor
They did. I haven’t kept up with checking the docket for that case but presume the applications were approved because of the stimulation to stay the lawsuit until after the criminal case.
GZ must be sooooo disappointed that the defendants didn’t offer to settle. (snark)
From the desk of racerrodig
“GZ must be sooooo disappointed that the defendants didn’t offer to settle. (snark)”
Maybe NBC can find grounds to counter sue him…..as we say “…for shit’s and giggles…” Maybe we can sue him for just being FogenPhoole and having to deal with Robbie the Racist.
@racerrodig
Well, let’s see. He’s already bankrupt. His credit is already ruined. He has no assets and no future possibility of being financially independent. Nah. He wouldn’t be able to pay the court’s fee to file appearance and answer, much less a judgment. 🙂
From the desk of racerrodig
So you’re saying anything to do with Fogen is a loser ?? Hmmmmm, Imagine that. But the tweets from Robbie the Racist and the comments from Frank “The Racist Tank” Taaffe would be worth a laugh.
@Racerrodig
Unless he can turn ShelLIE into a financial asset, he has nothing.
Junior and Taaffe should be very thankful there’s no law against being stupid.
From the desk of racerrodig
“Junior and Taaffe should be very thankful there’s no law against being stupid.”
They should also be thankful they’ve never wandered into my shop as I’ll show them what the term “verbal abuse” is really all about, not to mention reality. I doubt they’d even share that with the Outhouse gang…..I deal with some real liars and scum in my business. Those 2…..child’s play.
I understand Shelly might do well as a geisha, 😆 At least that could keep him in money for canteen.
Xena- unless the Comedy Station pays for the story if GZs life.
Sent from my iPod
Pg 51-83 is the Hadley deposition that reveals info about Trayvon we already knew. Called “good kid” by Hadley based on records.
Somehow this was separated from my other message about Part 6 over at the Treestump, which contains the Hadley deposition in their display of the FOIA documents they received. Pg 51-83 is the desposition, some of wwhich concerns Trayvon’s school records.
Oops – here’s the link. Ignore the Treestump comments – what’s important is the docs.
Part 6 http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/04/14/part-6-the-trayvon-martin-cover-up-detective-steven-hadley-sr-sworn-affidavit-trayvon-foia-13/
The Treestump is feverishly busy with their dud bombshell Part 6 http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/04/14/part-6-the-trayvon-martin-cover-up-detective-steven-hadley-sr-sworn-affidavit-trayvon-foia-13/
Conspiracy #99 for the treehouse.. Have they ever listed the value of this Jewelry? I’m guessing it’s costume jewelry one gets at a 5 and dime. You can get that stuff at yard sales. My oldest son when he was young would walk around the neighborhood and buy all kinds of old useless junk.
Funny that they don’t mention allowing Zimmerman to walk away from his arrests with a slap on the wrist. Anger management classes for shoving a cop? Not in Pa.
I’m thinking he took it from a girl he probably had a crush on.That’s what teenage boys do.
If all these reader or people have proof of wh TM is and he is a bad person that will free
GZ to so and end this mess
And he/she is calling Trayvon “rabid”? The Zimmerman supporters are the most rabid _____ on the planet. Hate has driven them off the freaking edge. Maybe their heads will explode? 🙂
From the desk of racerrodig
Did someone say their heads should explode ?? There’s merit to that thought. The garbage that the Zidiot Nation has spewed from day 1 is really sickening, starting with that “…vicious…” or “…savage…” attack crap. I’ll show show him a savage attack.
To be honest, I’d be embarrassed to even be remotely associated with this sick bunch.
Lets talk about his “…railroading…” or how its “…a media conspiracy..”
Yep, those pesky Zidiots should have something go “Pop”
He was not suspended 53 days and no one knows his school records and there no evidence he was wel into drugs.still not relevant.They’ve saying that even before the defense was given access to his school records. again more lies. don’t trying to call them out on because they will not allow your post to be posted. There are no known reports,and Sundance cracker knows it. more lies and speculation. There maybe a lawsuit in his future.
From the desk of racerrodig
” There maybe a lawsuit in his future.” Not to mention Criminal Prosecution.
lol!
like do the math, divide the number of murders in the USA per year by the population then she shoukd tell herself to do the same math for people with protetion orders and other prior bad acts such as assaults filed against them to lead to violent crime later on.. .
Barking mad. They’re blind as bats.
From my desk to y’alls:
“The fact is that the “rabid” Trayvon thug attacked George, playing the “knock-out” game, and George defended himself, as an act of self-defense.”
So this person was there? They KNOW this how? Are they going to be on the stand as a witness? Where do they come UP with this crap??!!!
THESE are the people who should be sued!!!!
On the advice of qualified counsel of a prestigious law firm that has been doing business for years, the HOA and their insurers have, essentially bet more than 1 million dollars that the CTH is wrong.
As a general rule, being wrong so many times, usually causes one to suspect that they, themselves are poorly informed. Just a thought they might want to consider.
You know, I am so SICK and DISGUSTED with the refuse from the outhouse going on and on about how GZ should sue this, GZ should sue that when they have it SOOOO wrong.
They say SHIT like Sybrina tradmarked Trayvon’s name to profit off of him – ASSHLSS!!! She did it so people like THEM – whoever it was who sold it to the officer for target practice COULD NOT PROFIT.
They do not seem at all like vengeful people. I don’t know HOW they are getting through this, but if ANYBODY should be suing, it is THEM – they should start with that STINKIN’ outhouse and then all of the news outlets who allow all this crap on their pages.
“By all known reports” my AZZ!!! The reports you make up from insinuation????!!!!
Honestly, I do not know how this family is doing it. I know I’m so on edge myself right now, I just don’t know how they are doing it.
I wonder where this information was received. It does not appear to be something available to the public. Was it provided in the discovery dumps or is it public information? In any case, according the deposition of detective Hurley, the story about Trayvon in possession of stolen goods seems to be a made up story! Pg. 68-69
The Treestump got this stuff from an FOIA request to Miami PD, I believe – 1,000 pages.
Yeah, there’s a buncha stuff in there that the Treepers are twisting to all get out.
@Two sides. GZ and his family must be very disappointed with the treeslum. Nothing they are doing proves he killed Trayvon in self-defense. GZ must feel very bad that they choose to financially support getting documents that provide him with no help, while his legal defense fund needs $10,000 just to pay outstanding bills.
Thank you TSTAS!
Sadly, he may like them anyway, if they’re sending him $. I didn’t save the recent link I saw that said they raked in 2k this past weekend. I think I saw that on Twitter, not sure.
Speaking of Twitter, Jr.s latest, most often used line is now “self-defense is a right.”
Should be “self-defense is a right when a threat is properly perceived and force is properly administered” or something to that effect.
My question too, where did Mr. Cracker get the info. I read his comment that it is a FOIA dump on scribd.com. I looked for it at scribd.com and could not find anything. Me thinks one of ‘de treestump huggers is hacking info.
Right, so how did he get to have these in the first place????
To the DESK OF AUSSIE
Good question, Aussie? Other questions he never answered are (a) from whom did you purchase the targets? (b) when were the purchases made? (c) how much did you pay for the purchases, in cash or on line? (d) how much did you pay for each target? (e) did you pay from your own pocket or with taxpayers’ money?
What infuriates me most are: (a) ex-sgt. Ron KIng is blaming others! (b), ex-sgt. Ron King is claiming to be the victim along with Trayvon and Trayvon’s parents! (c), ex-sgt. equates his idiosyncratic victimhood of himself with what Trayvon’s parents are going through! etc.
I saw absolutely no remorse from ex-sgt. Ron King. And his senseless rationalizations camouflaged as “remorseful” explanations even depict a man with psychopathic tendencies.
And why the eff would he support a vendor who offered these targets, knowing exactly why these were for sale and exactly who would be buying them?
This is a no brainer. you’re fired.
Searching, I agree with everything you say so well.
I’ll add that there can be no remorse a week after the fact because his actions spring up from some very dark values and beliefs that are better left hidden. That is exactly what he desperately tries to do here, hide and obfuscate his motives.
It takes life-changing experiences and time to overcome the hatred of racial prejudice and sometimes it never happens…
Contrast:
Ex-Klansman Elwin Wilson http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTKEokcd8M4
and
Medgar Evers’ murderer, Byron De La Beckwith.
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62~ Searching Mind; these targets were available for sale online. Racer said that they were available on ebay. Once discovered, the creator of these offensive targets (a redneck gun store owner) was served with a cease-and-desist letter. The sickest thing is that they sold quite well.
@Parrot
I did a series on the Freedom riders on our blog a couple of months ago and we discussed Elwin Wilson’s apology to Congressman John Lewis. John Lewis went through some horrible abuse but yet remained non-violent. He harbors no hatred at all. The Freedom riders series was very emotional for me. And I love this clip
Hallelujah I’m a travellin’
Hallelujah Ain’t it fine
Hallelujah I’m a travellin’
Down freedom’s main line
@Southerngirl2,
Thank you for posting the video. I went to your blog and watched the videos there as well.
The Freedom Riders’ History was particularly interesting. I had not watched this when it aired.
We can learn something from people like John Lewis and Elwin Wilson. If a person has potential to change, the one thing that will do it is love.
**goosebumps**
AMEN! Love is the key!
Good God SearchingMind, where do people like this guy come from? He’s just like GZ and his family. What makes people equate themselves with people who have been horribly victimized but don’t act like victims why they prefer to be victims? Where do they get all this victim mentality?
It sounds like some weird syndrome or psychiatric problem somewhat related to like Munchausen or something.
Oh, SouthernGirl2, that video is so beautiful and moving!
I’ve read John Lewis’s book, “Walking with the Wind” but have never seen this video series specifically on the Freedom Riders.
Would you please give me a link to your site where your article and the videos appear?
Boyd, yes: This is a no-brainer. You’re FIRED. And you can’t be a cop anywhere anymore ever in life. Get lost.
He said he purchased them with the no shoot idea in mind. HE purchased them a year ago.
Oh, yeah, SURE!! And that’s what he told his colleagues?
That doesn’t even make sense. What an asshole.
@Papa,
While the Sergeant reads well, even if everything he reports is sincere and true, his judgment is really, really questionable.
I agree completely. I just don’t think I’ve ever seen a video quite like this one on YouTube before where a fired cop is taking it to the “masses” with his spin on what got him fired.
You can’t help but notice the lack of sincerity in his “apology” as being a poor victim of a political agenda right along side the parents of a dead child he was using as his “training aide”.
Like a friend of mine said in the comments section, use a pic of YOUR OWN child with cross hairs as a training aide.
Exactly. Or the unidentifiable cutouts of civilians that are normally used.
@LLMPapa
I concur. Why didn’t he use a pic of his own child?
FROM THE DESK OF RACHAEL S
Now THAT’s a very good question. Like I said, I was totally horrified driving in my car, listening to the news and heard this. All I could think about was what if that had been my child and heard that on the news. What if Trayvon’s parents heard that on the news? I guess they know about it. How do you think they feel? How would ANY parent feel?
Yeah, if he thinks it’s so funny, why didn’t he use a picture of his own kid.
the whole thing seems contrived, like he has been co-opted with payola.
@ llmpapa
It seems to me that the defense has put all their eggs in the conspiracy basket, and this guy is just a shill.
can’t prove it but it is what I think.
Individualizing a target for whatever shooting practice purpose should never be tolerated.
Sure a lot of parallels to the words of fogen once he started talking (sans lawyer). He outta not have done that video. Rank amateur at spin, blaming his decisions on the whistleblowers as liars, and blaming others repeatedly transparently veiled apologies on behalf of those others..
And he used the Martin family, enveloping them for his own purposes. Disingenuous and disgusting tactic. Let him use his neighbor’s child’s image and then hug his neighbors to save himself– he’d get his block knocked off.
ay2z~ Mayhaps a sociopath with a badge?
@ay2z
the range at which i take target practice will not allow for any human shaped targets, not even osama bin laden. the defendant thinks he’s the ‘most hated man in america’, but i’ve got news for him, he does not excel even in this. stand in line buddy.
perhaps it is because i am in california, but i figured that all target ranges would be similar in policy. it is disheartening to realize my own naivete, even when i have such extensive family connections to the south.
@Faux, I am in no way taking up for the South hell no, but this racist shit is all over this country. I forget right off which state the highway sign with the words Trayvon and the “N” word were used in connection with each other. if I make no mistake it was either in Ohio or PA. no mam, it’s not only a Southern thing my dear it’s every where.
It’s really a shame that we are still going through this bull shit being that it’s 2013, one would think we were still living in the 50’s and 60’s because, this is how those who think they own this country want things to be. no only that, they also think that GOD made them the boss of his world.
The thing they refuse to acknowledge is the *FACT* that this is stolen land, that they claim as their own.
it’s beyond questionable. using the likeness of person should get you fired. I see it being no different if he used Bush/Obama.
He used the image of a murder victim. DUH. Which was in poor taste and just plain nasty. Would he have done that if Trrayvon was a white kid? I don’t think so.
This video is interesting. The fired cop says there was NO shooting of the Trayvon targets. He used them as a training aide as a “friendly no fire” target example.
HA!! Why didn’t he use a silhouette of GZ as a no shoot training aid? Better yet, he could have used Mama Zim’s silhouette since that’s all we have of her.
LOL LOL!
🙂
Useing a silhouette of GZ is not realy usefull to hone your shooting skills.
You couldnt miss if you tried might as well use a barn door for a target.
@ Colin Black~ LOL!
@colin black
LOL@Colin.
@Xena –
@Colin –
@Papa –
Dang it guys, you know the Sergeant had to settle fer the hoodie-model targets, coz the ever-popular Afro-Peruvian model wuz all sold out …
Fer “do not shoot this ‘suspect’ ” purposes only, naterrallee.
Well, let’s not give a minnit’s concern fer the Sergeant. I spect Good Ole Boy Osterman is getting him suited up to be an Air Marshal.
On yer tax dollar & mine.
What’s that line about “the last refuge of a scoundrel”?
They do use civilian cut outs to train who not to shoot but still a poor choice on his part
His apology is not for any wrongdoing HE claims to have committed. He apologizes for the wrong he wants us to believe the OTHER officers have done.
For those who don’t want to waste 5-6 minutes watching this, here is a recap.
I apologize for being used as a pawn…for being a part of someones political agenda…blah,blah,blah.
I feel bad for the Martins and MYSELF for others using this to further their careers…blah,blah,blah.
I apologize for my coworkers for being immature and uncaring…blah,blah,blah.
And lastly to the Martin family…wait, I lost my place. Let me repeat blaming everything on the PCPD…blah,blah,blah.
I wasn’t there when your son was killed and I don’t know s#it about it.
Thanks for your time.
SERIOUSLY!?!
He gets caught showing off his targets to another officer who takes a picture of them and files a complaint, but says it’s all because this guy wants the Chief removed. Blame everyone but yourself, dude! 25 yrs in law enforcement. Ha! You just joined the PCPD in 2011. I wonder how many other depts you got removed from???
@ Lynn~ Thank you VERY much for the recap. I have no patience for scum like that. Let’s hope he STAYS fired.
FROM THE DESK OF TEXAD
@Lynn
I am so tired of these faux apologies by racists. I am also beginnning to believe that racism is a mental health illness and must be acknowledged as such so it can be treated. Fired cop Ron King, as you and others point out, is only sorry that the thin blue wall of silence did not protect him against his own ignorance and racism. It’s funny, though, that when he saw his paycheck fluttering away in the wind he threw as many people under the bus as he could. Who does he think he is to be a part of some “political agenda”? And if I were the parents of Trayvon Martin I would sue HIM for daring to try to join them in his false alliance of victimhood.
@Texad,
Crisp, sharp & brilliant commentary. Cut like a diamond!
Perfect – especially your comment on the cynicism of his riding on the coattails of Tracy and Sybrina’s grief.
Thank you.
maaan this kat is going to bust hell wide open…. I’M INSULTED!!!! SMDH only in AMERIKKKA….
From the desk of Tzar
I blame this video on 24hr news cycles of political pundits proffering spin and unintelligible nonsense as actual argumentation and reason, thus lowering the bar to where this drivel can be posted without shame.
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62~ Respectfully LLMPapa, that is a cartload of horseshit. If he “offered” the targets to fellow officers, then he probably intended to use them for live fire targets. This cop crap is what enrages me. He gets fired FOR CAUSE. He whines to his union about it being “misintepreted”. The unions start turning the screws on the department, and voila! Racist cop gets his job back. He’s out a few weeks pay BUT he’s still employed. It happens so frequently it’s sickening. Our local paper did an expose on the Houston cops. Some had serious complaints, SUBSTANTIATED complaints, MANY of them on their records, but they are STILL employed!! The public here doesn’t trust the police department. And they have good cause.
He certainly would NOT have used any silhouette of one of the school shooting victims or the Colorado victims as non shoot targets. HIS judgment was poor in this instance. The fact that he PURCHASED them in the first place speaks to his heart. My goodness!
@Diaryofasuccessfulloser, in reference to your comment about him using a photo of one of the kids from the Newtown and the Aurora incident. in the first place, there would have NEVER been anything like this put out in reference to those victims. they were all white victims with the exception of one little AA girl in the Newtown case.
These target things were made for one reason and one reason only and that was to disrespect this AA kid and his family. as far as those who purchased these things as well as the one who made and sold them, AA don’t have any feelings as far as they are concerned.
This is one of the most hateful racist things that one could ever imagine, that one race of people could ever do to another race. there’s a very SPECIAL PLACE IN HELL, FOR PEOPLE LIKE THESE.
@ladytclaire,
Lady, do you think Reincarnation just might bring those white racists back to America as Black – and the year they are returned here is 1813?
It would, after all, be educational …
@PM, there is a saying that goes like this, chances go around and, these same racist may very well enter the world in their next life as a black person. I believe that for every minute when someone dies, a baby is born at that very moment and, the soul of that one who has died, enters the world in the body of that new life. so my answer us yes.
Exactly – and it is OBVIOUS the whole thing here is put into one stereotypical caricature of all black people/kids – whatever. But there is no denying that one. So whether it is for target or not for target is not the point, although the idea that it would be for target it totally reprehensible – but so is the stereotypical caricature.
From the desk of racerrodig
Really now. He’s saying anyone wearing a Hoodie is a friend AND Do Not Shoot !!
Note to the Zidiot Nation : Please be advised that Law Enforcement has agreed with Team Trayvon that wearing a Hoodie is not a sign of criminal activity nor any indication that wearing, owning, purchasing a Hooded sweatshirt demonstrates a suspicious activity.
racerrodig
X’d sargent Ron King’s Firearms class beginner to advanced certification.
It’s a mad mad mad mad world.
Ron King’s list of individualized victims of gun violence could include:
Abraham Lincoln
Anon toddler shot self after finding cop parent’s gun
John F. Kennedy
Anon pre-schooler shot self after finding cop parent’s gun
Anon elementary school student shot by brother while playing with cop parent’s gun
John Lennon
and whatever else suits his political and personal biases
BS!!!! This is a very sensitive nationally known high profile case, why even bother to take a picture of an innocent kid to a firing range? Less a picture that has target lines printed on it. Aren’t there enough generic images that can be used for no fire friendly targets? Or, wow, oh yeah, why didn’t he use a picture of the Pope? I mean, after all it was a friendly no fire target right? Why didn’t he pick Obama? Wha??? Too controversial? Right, that’s exactly my point. This guy is one big fat EFF’n fraud, trying to put one over on us.
lonnie’s desk’s owner says
agreed, lonnie. there are legitimate ‘non-shoot’ targets available for this type of training, they usually consist of outlines of kids, pregnant woment, women pushing baby carriages, etc. none of these types of targets have any type of characteristics which would tie them to actual individuals.
bottom line is that mr ray-cyst purchased the trayvon targets manufactured by fellow cone headed scum bags. mr formerly ‘upstanding’ police officer gave cash to racist scum instead of legitimate outfits which produce legitimate ‘no-shoot’ targets. this alone brings his actions into question and no amount of back pedaling on his part makes his story believable.
the desk of fauxmccoy has spoken!
“the desk of Faux McCoy has spoken.”
😀
Yeah right, he is full of shit! This guy and people like him like to push the racism envelope just to see what they can get away with. He is either stupid or brain dead to think he could get away with this. I’m glad his peers turned his ass in and I hope he never works in law enforcement again. There are some good people in law enforcement, but assholes like this need to be weeded out.
I would suggest that if anyone would be a star witness for Trayvon, it will be Javaris.
To certain people… There is nothing in those documents you are so excited about,in regards to trayvon martin we don’t already know about. We already know about him being caught with a weed pipe. Maybe he was caught with one previously. Hardly relevant to his murder. that jewelery story was not covered up.( the jewelery in question was never reported stolen and was returned to its owner). If it had been we would nevr have known about it. Again you contradict yourself. There is no hidden criminal record for Trayvon,he had no criminal record. He has never been arrested or charged with anything. Trayvon is not so important (except to the people who loved and cared deeply about him) that the police would hide his record if he had one. Again you people and the conservative nuthouse,will stoop to any new low to justify the murder of a 17 year old boy who never did any harm to anyone. You make assumptions,imply,and make crap up to justify the death of a 17 year old kid. You are the lowest form of human scum on this planet. So this is what being a conservative is. Lie to justify murder. Make excuses to justify murder. If ignorance was a disease you’d be dead. If ignorance was a crime you’d get the death penalty. If ignorance was a job you’d get promoted. Some of you have even gone so far as to send harassing tweets to Ms Fulton. LEAVE her alone. KELLY D PAYNE.
Very well stated….
“( the jewelery in question was never reported stolen and was returned to its owner)”
Have you got a link to a story about the jewelry being returned to the owner, or do you remember where you saw that?
I’d like to read it, having apparently missed seeing it when it first came out.
Thanks in advance.
unitron
I lost the link months a go when my computer crashed and i had to reformat my hard drive.
Unitron, I suggest you look at the FOIA pages obtained from Miami Police Department that are currently posted at the Treestump Part 6. The deposition of an Officer Hadley mentions exactly that. Closer to the source than anything the media put out. I think the page numbers are 51-83 over there. Basically, Hadley says Trayvon’s a good kid or he’d have a longer record.
Part 6 http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/04/14/part-6-the-trayvon-martin-cover-up-detective-steven-hadley-sr-sworn-affidavit-trayvon-foia-13/
“Unitron, I suggest you look at the FOIA pages obtained from Miami Police Department…”
It seems they’re actually from a separate agency, the Miami-Dade Schools Police Department, and not the plain old Miami Police, who are apparently called Metro Dade.
I had already read all 91 pages previously, as well as the previous 5 “episodes”, but it’s easy to miss stuff among all of that verbiage, so I went to the start of Hadley’s testimony right where you said it was and read it again all the way to the end.
According to Hadley, the school cops had the jewelry sitting in their property room logged in as “found property” and when Metro Dade wanted it sent to them, Lt. Rodak of the school cops interrupted that, so the jewelry got sent back from Hadley’s desk to the property room.
And so far there’s no indication I’ve been able to find yet that it’s not still sitting there.
Which is why I was hoping to see whatever it was that kllypyn saw, to see if there was another chapter in the jewelry’s history.
unitron
@Uni,
Just maybe, Uni, the “jewelry” is a pin.
Not a brooch as such, but one with a likeness.
That Trayvon liked to wear.
In loving memory ….
“Just maybe… the “jewelry” is a pin.”
I have no idea what it is or they are.
I assume something exists because the school cop, Hadley, talks about Metro-Dade wanting the transfer of some “found property” supposedly connected to Trayvon in some way.
But as far as I know nobody but the newspaper in Miami said anything about it being jewelry found in his pack or bookbag, and I have no idea who or what their source was.
If it doesn’t help me along the road of figuring out what happened that night, I don’t really care what it is or they are, or how it or they wound up in Trayvon’s possession, if it or they actually did.
But kllypyn said it or they had been returned to the owner of it or them, something I hadn’t seen stated anywhere else, and I was curious to read that for myself.
Unfortunately kllypyn no longer has the link, so unless someone else can provide that link, I’m going to put that question back in the “things we don’t know” file and worry about other stuff.
I should point out here that I actually erred slightly in using the word jewelry in my reply to Two sides to a story, as Hadley actually only ever says “property” or “found property” when he tells the tale about how it or they never actually went anywhere at the time he was talking about.
Since then, who knows. Apparently someone thinks they do and kllypyn read about it, but one computer crash later, it’s a dead end, so, unless that changes, for me it’s a closed subject.
unitron
@Uni,
” I’m going to put that question back in the “things we don’t know” file and worry about other stuff.”
Brilliant move, ol’ pal.
I know you want justice for Zimmerman (and I do, too – who wants an unjust trial?) so let me suggest “other stuff” that’s more worrisome;
IF Zimmerman agrees to testify, how do you think he should explain what he must consider the final pre-shoot maneuver: drawing the gun from the holster sandwiched between ass & grass, bringing it forward, and somehow shooting a horizontal bullet track straight through Travvon’s torso, until the projectile shatters, as designed, taking out a chamber of the heart and lobe of lung:
(a) should he stand and show the jury how he did this?
(b) should he get down on the floor in Chambers in front of the jury, and re-create it?
(c) how should he explain that he would really not have been able to imprison Trayvon’s arm (that he thought Trayvon was snaking across Zimmerman’s chest, with an eye to going for the gun – the action that reminded Zimmerman that he was wearing “the” [up to now, forgotten] gun?
We have seen him re-create this, and to reach around back to his holster, he has to bend his elbow in an “akimbo” position – so his bicep rises off his chest – thus releasing Trayvon’s trapped arm. Should he tell us what Trayvon did THEN? Further beatings?
(You can recreate this action yourself sitting at your keyboard.)
(d) Should he demonstrate that move from the witness stand, or get down on the floor?
Please think about this testimony, Uni. I am sorely troubled. What’s the best way to make the Jury comprehend?
I need help with this.
Thanks, Uni, for coming back to significant” stuff.”
It’s where we all belong.
I wish that someone would post the complete Dr. Phil with Trayvon’s family, it was on the web at one time because that’s the only way I could have seen it. Osterman’s show is online in fair use content.
That would be a window into the family that is much needed now, Sybrina didn’t know how she was going to be able to cope without breaking down, and kudos to showman Philip, he offered his resources and full support to Sybrina and the family as they go through this very public grieving time.
It’s become so much more than just public, these new stories are bringing a whole new challenge to any parent whose child is the victim of violent crime, and the child is re-victimized, their memory victimized, and their reputation re-written with hate.
One clip: (the video stream gets broken up while it buffers, sorry)
http://drphil.com/shows/show/1870/
Found the show, don’t know how much it was edited, looks like a decent posting, thank you to the youtube user for this.
The poster is a Zimmerman supporter.
kllyprn, thought that might be the case, I didn’t use the poster’s name, and it’s too important to replay this because even though the Dr. Phil show seems all about showmanship, he does good work in this case and the family thrown into the public through no fault of their own, nor of their son.
Contrast this, done with a live audience, live recording, no blue or green chroma key screens, no slick editing after recording in a closed studio of the killer to spew more lies and manipulate his so-called, ‘masses’.
This family shows no hate in their grief that wants vigilante justice for Trayvon in return, none of that. These are good people who are loving parents.
Messages for Sybrina and Tracy about the haters, can apply to us too, we can decide to ‘take back’ as well and not give them voice.
What can we do to ‘take back’? LLMPapa just gave us one more example, and his timing tonight, just when we needed it most.
What these people are putting this family through is not right and, this also goes for the family of the “MURDERER” as well as his defense team. Fogen the B*****D needs to come clean about the crime he committed that night.
I know that is never going to happen because, he is the type of person who would rather lie than tell the truth. but, there are some people who should do what he will never do because, they know exactly what happened that night but, are not being forthcoming with what they know. even though he has cost them on the HOA to have to pay out a big settlement to the family of his victim’s family, those on that HOA board are willing to keep mum. it would serve some of them right, if they lose their homes to the family of Trayvon.
@Lady,
I think we will find out that the “HOA settlement” is paid by two insurance companies, and their adjusters/attorneys called the shots.
The HOA would have little to say about it when the insurance companies (the HOA’s and likely the management company’s) informed them, “You really have little choice about settling. The limits payable on these policies are “X” dollars. Let us show you similar cases that went to a jury. The award payouts were “X+”, “Y+” and Z+” All of the excess BEYOND THE POLICY LIMITS — will come out of your HOA reserve, will come out of your personal bank accounts, and your homes could be sold to pay the balance of the award if you can’t pay cash. This what you and every homeowner will PERSONALLY lose.”
The HOA Board of Directors would gulp and say, “OK, Boss!”
PiranahMom,
Who are all the players, not saying they all have legal standing or responsibility, but just on the face of what we know from discovery.
Could there be ownership by a company/developer of this complex who are stakeholders apart from HOA?
Could Neighborhood Watch, be responsible for any failure and if responsible to any degree, would they then have a case against those on site, individual board members or the HOA and it’s iinsurers in the future?
There is also the SPD official link to the NW program for training and responder purposes, would this make them liable for any failures (ie: failure of the NW captain to assign block captains, failure to assure the residents knew the rules about gun-toting etc etc).
NW should be concerned about it’s reputation and ability to monitor gun-toting vigilantes who operate in a similar fashion to fogen, and his ‘little hero’ complex.
@Ay2z’
I know everyone here would like to see the idiots in this case feel some pain. But it is limited. NW is part of law enforcement and law enforcement is part of government and to sue government you must first put in a claim then have it denied. (Goes way back to early kings of England, “who can do no wrong.” You have to get the king’s permission to sue him.)
Haven’t heard of any claim against SPD.
NW, as far as we can see, put out the right instructions.
Benjamin Crump had Tracy and Sybrina file a claim where there was most likely negligence, a claim to be most likely successful with jurors if the claim was denied.
That’s what they did and the results of same were announced. The HOA (the insurance company on their behalf) offered to settle out of court because it was a prudent business decision, compared to being financially massacred by the jurors.
What is significant about this: The HOA Directors are those who knew Zimmerman best. Some were right there when it happened.
Not hard to show those folks what the risks of NOT settling out of court would be!
Bazillions!
Ay2Z — Once a complex is built out and sold out, the developer turns over reins to the HOA and sez bye-bye. Unless the developer retained ownership of a few units for some unspecified purpose, any exposure is highly unlikely. That said, it might be that a “corporate entity” — i.e. some mom and pop company — might have bought up a few units during the down-turn for rental or resale spec purposes .(Many Florida complexes took pains with tightened by-laws around 2008 to prevent that from happening, specifying that prospective buyers could own, for example, no more than two units in a complex.
@PiranhaMom & LadyStClaire
Yes there are others involved including another insurance company
Reading Mr. Crumps’ Opposition #13
Counsel for the other confidential parties to the confidential civil settlement agreement have indicated their objection and intention to intervene and be heard before the Court on this matter.
I reread Omars Motion to Unseal Exhibit B, pgs 7 & 8 is a letter dated June 1, 2012 that was sent to RATL HOA, and its board members and ‘VOLUNTEERS’ cc: Fogen c/o Mark Omara
That explains why JN said to Omar Mr. Crump is opposing counsel and why Omar knew of the settlement.
Now Omar opened yet another road adding more attorneys to the list he has to deal with.
BTW, yay I’ve finally learned how to navigate through my email to reply, yay.
Backing up PiranhaMom I read you Math post and that makes a bunch o sense. Yes, his parents were kind they lost so much because Fogen took away their sons future.
Trayvon and his family are the only ones, who have been mistreated even though he and they are the victims of this crime. this is so wrong and, it’s also very hurtful to know that this is how AA kids of crime are treated by some in this country.
It’s damaging to the defense. Plain and simple. Those others are just noisiest, that doesn’t mean so much when trial comes along.
OS has the storu up now, they diey didn’t have the space to include the complete quote by Ben Crump, but they were good enough to squeeze in the last sentence;
And just who is receiving the benefits of profits from these hate targets? O’Mara end of the chain for any of it?
(above typos from Desk of The Cat)
Sold by whom, printed by whom, distributed by whom? Inquiring minds need to know.
YES! It is blood money.
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62~ TO: Cercando Luce: They had been on sale online, BUT he was sent a cease and desist letter with threats to sue if ignored, so they are no longer available. OF COURSE it was some redneck moron with a gun store who developed it and sold it. The most shameful thing is that they sold quite well.
That is what I have trouble with. It is bad enough someone wants to try to make a buck that way, but just because you CAN find something, just because you CAN buy something, doesn’t mean you have to. There is only one kind of person who would buy something like that, let alone try to make money that way.
They were sold last year for a short time by gun shop on e-bay. They were stopped by a court order as I recall.
From the desk of racerrodig
These despicable targets were sold by a private gun shop on e-bay last year. He was ordered to cease & desist selling these. I think Crump had something to do with the halting of the sales of this shit. There were Copyright laws and such infringed on.
Only an insensitive racist shit bag would do this by the way.
@Racer,
The commercial “rights” to Trayvon’s image are part of his estate; similar to copyright. but a different part of “the bundle of rights.”
Would’t surprise me at all if MOM was getting a cut somehow. I doubt it, but ot wouldn’t surprise me.
Ben’s response:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/13/us/florida-trayvon-martin-targets/index.html
It’s beyond disgusting from a law enforcement officer. He’s a disgrace to the uniform.
Yes, and a disgrace to humanity.
From the desk of Lady, CNN has some nerve quoting Ben Crump’s response concerning this matter, when they themselves allow all kinds of racist hate speech to post on their blog site. “NEVER” again will I tune in to CNN for my place to watch the news.
All of these places that allow this kind of shit to be posted on their sites, just tell me that, the ones who own these sites are permitting this kind of stuff because, this is how they themselves feel but, are too much of a coward to come right out and say or blog this hate speech themselves. after all, they want ratings. one thing for sure though, they won’t get those ratings from me tuning in to their racist network.
Can’t understand it. They do not monitor the hate, nor take any action to make their comments a safe place to read, nevermind post. There is no content other than hate in most of these, and personalized hate at that.
If CNN had any gumption, there would be no comment section
@ladystclaire
It’s because of advertising, but rest assured, the FBI has agents that download and read those comments. They spend hours determining what constitutes free speech as opposed to what constitutes hate speech.
That doesn’t mean that anyone should actually waste their time arguing with Zidiots who want to turn focus away from GZ and argue about race. As a wise man once told me, never get into a pissing match with a skunk.
I believe in freedom of speech just as much as anybody but, what these people are putting out on some of these blog sites is, nothing but hate speech directed to all AA in general as well as to a grieving family. I read some of this stuff and, my eyes fill with tears for Trayvon and his family because, they haven’t hurt a soul. if these ignorant racist want to support this murderer of a child, then by all means do it. but, they they do not have to continue with the insults to this child, his family and AA in general.
These “IMBECILES” do *NOT* own this country as they think they do. this country as we all know, was taken from the rightful owners and, these “MORONS” know very well it was. yet they think it rightfully belongs to them but, no it doesn’t. they have even gone so far as to say, AA should be deported. well, seeing that they were not the original owners, they should be deported to where ever it is that they originated.
Obama said it best when he said, “unless you are a Native American,” you were brought here from some where else. these very people who are showing us and the rest of the world just how ignorant they are, I hope they will one day go through what Trayvon and his family are going through.
On the positive side, this allows the Feds to keep an eye on some of these folk.
I went there, saw the comments and left. Why do they allow that? I keep asking why people do that. Maybe they don’t even mean it and only like to stir up trouble, I don’t know. I’m tired of asking that question. Now I want to know why “news” sites allow that. Free speech?
B.S.
HATE SPEECH IS NOT FREE SPEECH!!!!!
@ay2z’
You have to wonder how that guy ever made Sgt.
Stupid.
Mean, aggressive people often end up with promotions.
Another great one, LLMPapa!
@LLMPapa
I howled after everything went dark. LOL!
The trilogy of anger-abuse examples. Excellent, she well make an interesting witness, won’t she.
So that’s the witness who offered the abuse of his mother account, that’s what I call it anyway. Turing off and locking out, access to one’s mother’s heat and power is abuse and it’s controlling.
Makes you wonder just who was the abuser in the family, the youngster with anger issues or a parent trying to deal with him?
Thank you LLMPapa,
This is the only thing that has put a smile on my face all day.
I guess the lights still haven’t gotten turned back on. She’s still in the dar.
Lol!! See you smiling 🙂
@ay2z
Hilarious! “She’s still in the dark … ”
Loved it!
He felt like a man hitting on ladies,and killing a kid. I really hate this boy,yes I said boy a man would never raise his hand at a lady and kill a kid for no reason at all.
@ Ty,
Yep, Ty, Zimmerman’s your garden variety bully. Nothing special – always pick on someone smaller and weaker (and unarmed).
You have a gift, LLMPapa!
And you have given us another gift. Thank you! 😀
I’d like to post something that i posted on global grind. i request permission to post it as is because it is in all caps because i was angry when i posted it. I respect you guys so if you want me to i’ll retype it it will just take longer to post. I don’t want to anger anyone I prefer to reserve that for Zimmerman supporters. K.D.P.
If you want it to be read, best to make it upper and lower case … with several paragraphs. Otherwise it’s too difficult to navigate.
Kelly,
You have a choice:
You can either take your time to retype your post, or you can burden several hundred others for THEIR TIME as they struggle to read your post an all-caps.
Readers also have a choice:
They can decide if they want to struggle through a long all-caps post or skip it.
You decide on your choice,
and the rest of us will give it our best consideration.
Thanks for thinking this over.
I’ll retype it.
@Kelly,
You redid it beautifully.
POWERFUL ending!
Thank you.
This tip may be too late, Kllypyn, but if you use Word, you can save some time by highlighting the entire post, then press shift + F3 twice. That will keep capitalization at the beginning of the sentence and change everything everything else to lower case letters.
You will, however, have to capitalize the personal pronoun “i”, as well as any proper nouns where ever they show up in the body because it does not capitalize anything but the first letter of each sentence.
If your computer has a word processing thing, that program can probably take it as a text paragraph (or ten) and make it lower cae and then you can just go through and capitalize first letters of sentences, or just skip it and publish it like e.e.cummings.
😀
From the Desk of ay2z and ay2Cat
To those needing a little smile and distraction, and you know who we are!)
(Fauxy and Racerrodig, excellent gravatars! )
LOL
HEY! How’d you get a video of my cat? 🙂
Seriously, the only part missing was the part where he walks on the keyboard and lays down across it, while giving me this innocent look that’s supposed to convince me he doesn’t know exactly what he’s doing…
Your cat?? It’s MY cat! I swear…. or they must be littermates!! This food food food feed feed food more food thing has to be a family trend. 😉
The animation was shared for it’s ‘Desk’ value of course.
ay2z~ even as I was WATCHING the video, my cat Roberto decided to do his imitation of Simon’s cat!
Oh no faux. I wasn’t saying it wasn’t Gaudi. I don’t know every piece of Gaudi’s work especially outside of architecture, his forte, and it certainly looked like something he could have designed (or Dali!), but out of interest looked it up and most definitely you will have to change your presentation to:
because just as suspected it’s a “tocador” not a “despacho” (Lol).
For your interest a quick Google brought up that it is part of furnishings for “Palau Güell” (in Spanish gü is pronounced as a “w”, i.e. Well Palace) One source adjudicates it to Joan Munné’s workshop another to F. Vidal’s along with this description which you might like:
Happy dressing!
from the skewed dressing table of fauxmccoy
to the desk of gbrbsb whose owner states
that works for me! thanks for finding that description, it is perfect. visiting barcelona and park guell was definitely a high point in my life (and career, since it was on the company dime). this table somehow just suits me, i like the skewed vision it offers 🙂
Whatever works for you is fine by me, but just to clarify, the description is not mine as I explained in a later comment, simply blockquotes didn’t work for some unknown reason.
no worries, i understood 😉
since this is what the mirror reflects, it’s all good in my world 🙂
http://www.inminds.com/weeping-woman-picasso-1937.html
@Faux,
“Guernica” itself is overwhelming, even more so for being in black, grey and white, with rough slabs of paint, rough and textured. It’s twice as tall as a person and about 25 ft. long so the figures are overpowering. I saw it as a young adult (I don’t know what it would do to a child.) At some point I retreated to the far end of the gallery room, sat in the corner, knees to chest, with my cheek pressed to my knees and eyes closed. I could take only so much. But I knew it was important to take in, absorb, consume as much of that truth as I could, and after a brief respite got up to examine it more – walking close, then backwards to take it all in.
It was more moving to me than my mother’s reports of being bombed in London, with glass shards from the windows shooting across the room, and methodically picking them out of her skin and hair, and out of her cat; keeping busy to quell the fear.
@pmom
wow – thanks for sharing your first hand impressions. i have experienced similar feelings at frida kahlo exhibits, but this is one piece that i have not seen in person, yet.
I know this may sound stupid,but what does from the desk mean? Did I miss something,I don’t be on the computer as much as I use to I was getting to mad about the lost of this kid. Now I’m getting my mind ready for 6/10/13.
Its the sort of self agrandiseing comment famous war correspondents or other reporters used in there bye lines .
From the desk of Woodward an Bernstein forinstance.
Just proof of his delusion of importance.
Ty Flair –
Have you ever read one of Jr. open letters? Or even the one he wrote and said was from his mother? They are from the desk of robert zimmerman jr. – but in all caps (which I won’t do here because I don’t want to give him any importance – I hate even saying his name) so we all kind of started making a joke about it.
From the desk of racerrodig
Ty, since Robbie the Racist (RZ jr) his mom & dad all post these “Open Letter” that start with “From the desk of…” we decided to mock their ignorance by doing this. In fact a few of us now have our avatar as a desk…..mine is actually my actual desk.
Oh ok I get it now,I refuse to read that letter I got so mad at that tweet fogen punk brother send out. I don’t want to hear from them until 6/10/13.
From the desk of racerrodig
You got it, It’s our way of mocking their arrogance and ignorance. It seems to be working……tron left.
Why does MOM think he has the right, to have the conditions of the HOA settlement with the family of Trayvon unsealed and, what is the reason for him wanting it unsealed? this man is the most despicable person, that I have ever seen.
He hasn’t let up on the harassment of this family at all. that settlement is none of the public’s business, and it’s certainly none of his business to see what it contains. he sure is being faithful to the tree cesspool as far as acting on everything they tell him to do. they are more than likely the ones who *DEMANDED* that he file this motion to unseal the agreement.
While having things unsealed that is connected to this case, then lets unseal everything concerning the defendant, such as his text messages as well as his emails and, his phone calls from that night and beyond. they don’t want his racist rants and his bragging about killing an UNARMED kid as well as making some kind of more than likely, racist remark about Tracy Martin.
this entire family are all hell bound and so is the defense team!
I think he’s desperate for something (anything) he can show as a “win”. Motion after motion -DENIED. Immunity Hearing – WAIVED. Defense fund is $10K in the hole, 2 months until trial, and his most rabid supporters are turning on him.
Since the clerk has already indicated she will unseal it, unless she gets a court order to the contrary, O’Mara has nothing to lose if he piggybacks on her decision, on something she has already declared she will unseal. She unseals it – he declares a “win” (as if it was all due to HIS motion) and the rabid supporters act like he’s busted the case wide open.
This BS that is going on concerning the murder of this child is not even necessary. for who ever it was/is who dog whistled all of these racist B*****D’S out to do the things they are doing, should burn in hell right along side of the ones he/she commands.
I’m so glad that the rest of the world is seeing this country for what it really is, and how some people are treated with such disrespect, even in death. Trayvon was a child and, he did not in any way cause what happened to him at the hands of a fellow racist POS.
I pray to GOD ALMIGHTY that, this murdering scum bag is convicted for the crime which he committed and, has been lying about from day one. I saw a picture of an inmate, holding up a sign standing in front of a cell that read, RESERVED FOR GEORGE ZIMMERMAN. that prison cell is exactly where he belongs and, it is where he will live for a long, long time I hope. but, if the state doesn’t get him, the feds will. he committed a hate crime and, with that he stands a chance of being executed.
from the desk of fauxmccoy
just changed my gravatar icon to a desk designed by antoni gaudi and am checking our handiwork 🙂
dang, and it did not work … back to the old drawing board for us both, i reckon.
It did work Faux, albeit looks more like a dressing table with a mirror than a desk… or maybe that was a previous gravatar you were trying and is neither by Gaudi nor a desk!
to the desk of gbrbsb
yes, i see that it is working now. i have seen much of gaudi’s furniture while touring spain. i found this doing an image search for a collection of his furniture, the other items pictured i knew were his as a matter of fact. i do realize it looks more like a dressing table, but was listed as a desk and it suited me. are you saying that it was designed by someone other than gaudi? if so, i’d love to know who.
gbrbsb says:
April 13, 2013 at 6:07 pm
Oh no faux. I wasn’t saying it wasn’t Gaudi. I don’t know every piece of Gaudi’s work especially outside of architecture, his forte, and it certainly looked like something he could have designed (or Dali!), but out of interest looked it up and most definitely you will have to change your presentation to:
“From the dressing table of fauxmccoy”
because just as suspected it’s a “tocador” not a “despacho” (Lol).
For your interest a quick Google brought up that it is part of furnishings for “Palau Güell” (in Spanish gü is pronounced as a “w”, i.e. Well Palace) One source adjudicates it to Joan Munné’s workshop another to F. Vidal’s along with this description which you might like:
These extraordinarily original furnishings were built by F. Vidal in 1888. The completely asymmetric dressing table stood out for its incredibly modern design for the time and had a mirror that could pass for avant-garde even today. It was designed for complete comfort and allowed the user to have all her beauty implements at hand. In addition, it featured a small step designed to aid in the putting on of shoes.
Happy dressing!
No idea why but in my reply blockquotes didn’t work either for the quote which at least has quotation marks or the last para which is not from my pen but a quote (hope it all makes sense) and I inadvertently posted in the wrong place below so ignore the 2nd posting.
From the desk of racerrodig
I’m hoping my new avatar shows up…
@gbrbs
shows up on a reputable site as a dressing table from Palau Guell
http://www.gaudiallgaudi.com/AA002%20G%20Mobiliari.htm
Hey…………It worked. Now I have one (more) up on Robbie the Racist. An actual picture of “The Desk of Racerrodig”
to the desk of racer
nice desk, with a nameplate even! score!
From the desk of racerrodig
That was actually easy. I just made the name up on my computer, printed it out, took a digital pic. put the pic in my documents and went to my account and viola’
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62~ I got a new gravatar as well. NOT as fancy as yours, but to celebrate our new desks for class.
From the desk of racerrodig
Is it possible I could use your researcher for a few days.
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62~ Sure! He works for tuna.He can type PhoganPhoole in just a few seconds. His only problem is his narcolepsy; he takes way too many cat naps during working hours. >
From the desk of racerrodig
c62, that sound better than my ex-partner. Maybe well talk about personnel at a later date
That is WONDERFUL!!!! I think I’m going to re-do mine with the monitor off. I only posted this one because my dog is sleeping under my desk but she doesn’t even show up and the monitor being on is distracting.
But yours is great!!!
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62~ THANK YOU Rachael! >
@Rachael –
Doggie looks WAY cool!
Thanks 🙂
From the desk of Santrina
Junior couldn’t help himself had to chime in on twitter to Attorney
Crump.Here is his response @ADiLorenzoWFTV
@attorneycrump On this point, perhaps only this point – I agree w/
B.Crump 100%. That “target” = absolutely reprehensible.
Skeptical that he didn’t have his own agenda like public perception.
This time, it must have been Mark O’Mara writing the tweet for Junior to disseminate.
Found on twitter Cop fired using Trayvon image for target practice. http://shar.es/JfxS4. Utterly disgusting!!!!
Forgot to add from the desk of Santrina currently in bed sick and this tweet did not help.
Get well soon, Santrina.
That story is SOOOOOO disgusting!! Thank GOD he was fired. Makes me want to use HIM for target practice, since “those people” are so into guns and all. As far as I’m concerned, that would be self-defense. You can’t have people like that walking around!!!
The what really makes me mad is, now I’m talking like them and feeling violent.
I need to LEAVE my DESK. Too bad the grandkids are out of town this weekend. I have to get away from my DESK and my computer.
I mean really, that guy should have been fired upon rather than just fired.
Okay, perhaps not really but damn that makes me very sick and angry.
Now I will admit to wanting to use an ex for dart practice or something before, but I’ve never actually done it, but
WTF IS THIS WORLD COMING TO?!!
To the desk of Rachael
From the desk of Soulcatcher
Just alittle something to help when your feeling…….
http://www.majman.net/flyswatter/
not from the desk of b/c I don’t have one. 😦
The officer claims he didn’t do what was charged, that it was politics.
thanks for revealing that story.
The link goes to wftv Channel 9, and it appears as if they have a space allocated for a news report video. Hope they show the ex-sgts face.
Have to believe the guy thought he would have his buddies support and a good laugh while they do their shoot to kill practice.
More heads should roll, bet they will because that was an environment that this cop thought he was supported doing this.
It’s hate, and profiling of an individual with hate, and it’s practice for the real thing, practice for ‘on duty’.
Exactly! We see this prevalent in LE across the nation! More heads should roll. The entire PD should be investigated.
WFTV has a photo of Ex-sgt King posed with gun at the range.
http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/port-canaveral-police-sergeant-fired-trayvon-marti/nXLdC/
How will the Brevard Community College officials respond to this?
From the desk of racerrodig
If you remember correctly, some jack ass racist scum sucking pig was printing Trayvon “Hoodie” targets last year and it raised a huge uproar. He was ordered to cease and desist and anyone who takes one out and shoot at it shows how truly ignorant and insensitive they are.
OMG what an EVIL DEVIL!!! He was supervising target practice and brought those evil paper Trayvon targets for his subordinates to shoot at!! And these were on-duty police! This is the police, in action, in Florida, and THIS is his reaction to the unjustified murder of a law-abiding adolescent by a cop-wannabe!
Words fail. That damnable dufus better have been fired, and I hope it was all his subordinates who reported him!
Wasn’t a guy involved in the Jasper Texas dragging named King as well? Whats up with that?
From the desk of Jun
It pretty much proves the state’s theory that Trayvon was just a target for the Fogens
They still treat Trayvon as a target
FROM THE DESK OF RACHAEL S
OMGOMGOMG!!!!
As bad as it was to read that link, I just went out to get something to eat and was listening to the radio in my car. The news talked about this story and it hit me so much harder than I expected, especially after having just read this.
I realized if I could hear it on the radio in my car, so could Trayvon’s parents!!!!!!
OMG!!!! Can you even BEGIN to imagine? OMG
I can’t stop crying and my stomach hurts.
IF I HAVE TO LISTEN TO THAT EVIL WITCH WHINE ABOUT HER POOR SON – OR HIS BROTHER OR MOM, I don’t know, I don’t know what I’ll do but I am so SICK of their pitty party and their victimization and thugification of Trayvon and his family and all black people -ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO STOP IT INSTEAD OF FUEL THE FIRE!!!!
That kind of thing is THEIR fault. Oh, I’m sure that stinkin refuse at the outhouse love it. They probably think it is funny. Do you think MOM or Jr. or Sr. or even GZ himself will have the DECENCY TO TELL THEM TO KNOCK IT OFF AND STOP IT THEMSELVES?
I am SOOOO sick of hearing about poor little GZ and his poor sad mama. She still has her son. Oh boofricketyhoo, he’s gained weight. What a fuckin shame.
Trayvon was so skinny and now he’ll never have a chance to fill out.
Okay, so that’s bad enough, but to TORMENT HIM IN THE GRAVE AND HIS FAMILY LIKE THIS??!!!
Don’t those – I don’t know WHAT you can call them, because they are NOT people – have ANY heart? ANY soul???
WTF IS WRONG WITH THEM???!!!!
omg, I just want to hug Sybrina. OMG I don’t know what I’d do if I were her – or his dad or anyone close to him and heard that on the radio. I feel so sick.
My daughter-in-law is out of town with my grandkids, but my son is home by himself for the weekend because he is working today. I think if I leave now, I can get there by the time he gets off work so I can give him a hug. I have to stay with him tonight because I just can’t be by myself. And I need to see my son. Trayvon could have been my son, and at times, probably was.
I swear, I am so sick of their poor me. So what if GZ goes to prison? So what if he is in there for life? I mean yes, as a parent it certainly is not what you want for your child, but she can still see him. She can still hold him.
While Trayvon’s mom gets to listen to this kind of CRAP and her GARBAGE.
I mean they all probably stay away from places like the outhouse and probably try not to read news articles where they can see all the racist hatred, BUT IT WAS ON THE NEWS and it hit me in the gut!!!!
I don’t even CARE how this trial comes out – I just hope either way, THEY ALL WILL STFU!!!!!!!
I’m right in there with you, Rachael.
I sure hope Mrs. Mark O’Mara reads this blog to find out what her husband encourages among the “masses.”
From the desk of racerrodig
This “masses” crap started on the “Get to know the real GZ” back last April or May. He stated he’s thanking “…you, the masses”
Note to FogenPhoole :
Your Zidiot Nation is a minority, and hardly constitute “masses” of anything. Massive Ignorance, Massive Racist Attitude, Massive Stupidity, but among a small group of Die Hard Zidiots.
TO: The Desk of Racerrodig
FROM: The Mount Olympus Office of Xena
Masses???? Why is GZ and O’Mara always begging for money if GZ has massive supporters?
From the desk of racerrodig
Good Questions………with all of those willful people giving money so freely, why is he broke….fat and ugly. I guess Markie O did turn away donations from the racists after all…..nothing like cutting your nose off to spite your face !!
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo 62~ Some advice for GZ:
TO: The Desk Of Racerrodig
FROM: The Offices of Hercules, Mount Olympus, the desk of Xena
While O’Mara and Junior are attempting to taint the jury pool, they should keep something very important in mind. Evidently, GZ’s supporters in Seminole County are so poor that they don’t drive and so stupid, that they haven’t registered to vote.
Of those not residing in Seminole County, FL, they care so much about GZ that they prefer that he not have money for a legal defense.
So O’Mara, Mama Zim, and Junior, should stop crying about GZ getting a fair trial. It will be as fair as GZ’s legal defense can buy. 🙂
@Rachael, it’s even more of a shame that these news media such as TV and radio, are more than happy to give them a platform to spew their shit out to the public at large, in order to see if they can drum up more racist support for the murdering B*****D.
@racer, speaking of him being fat, broke and UGLY, have you noticed just how his facial appearance has really changed from one extreme to the other. in one of the earliest photos he looks like a damn pig in the face. just take a look at his facial appearance over the time span of his weight gain.
From the desk of racerrodig
Oh I noticed the blubber. He has so much flab, he can’t even make that stupid smirk anymore. Ain’t Life Grand !!
Santrina~ What pisses me off is that he “MIGHT” get his job back. Those unions of theirs can be strong. I will celebrate AFTER the mediation fails and he STAYS fired.
i pray this is not the case, however after viewing his so called apology video I hope he never gets this job back or another in law enforement.
@Santrina
In his video, King conveyed that he is not going to be re-hired. He made a subtle threat that since he (King) has gone down, he plans on taking the Chief with him.
Don’t be surprised if King doesn’t put up a begging site on the basis that he has been wronged by the system.
Not from the Desk of Junior editor and chief rewrite and family spokesperson:
Gladys Zimmerman and her junior editor, brought up last year’s delayed arrest (not conviction) for her son’s killing of a child by all legal standards, to quote Serino, “… still a child”.
Revisiting last year just prior to the arrest. No one was asking for a conviction, they were asking for the justice system to work, and that begins with ‘arrest’.
Trayvon Martin’s Family Remembers him
Contrast the every emotion possible in Sybrina, EXCEPT the emotion or choice of ‘hate’– Mama Z doesn’t deserve to be mentioned in this same comment if only for her attitude and very possibly, the corner on the hating being done.
Notice the date, published March 15, 2012, and notice the two photos of Trayvon that appear, one on top left, a very young Trayvon in his graduation cap and gown, and on the top right, the photo that O’mara made a huge media production about, as a photo more representative of Trayvon, compared to all the young boy photos the media put out. PHoto taken in the car not long before Trayvon was shot to death.
No reasonable person is going to confuse the photo on the left as a 16 year old turning 17 , and this media put both up at the same time.
WESH and others, skewed the photo purposefully to show elongated, strange looking person to play O’Mara’s game, SHAME ON THEM!
@ay2z
I can’t stop my tears…
You see pictures of her today she just looks lost as if she wishes she was dreaming.
and this is why O’Mara’s latest claims of bias due to the settlement, is just further dehumanizing of the Martin family, first Trayvon wasn’t human enough to be scared, now the Martins aren’t human enough to be bereaved, their whole agendum here is to get some money
I couldn’t watch it straight through, I had to stop and come back to it later, it’s just that painful to watch. Especially to remember Jasper Tx and then how Fogen stood there discussing his ammo with Liar John, who said he saw things that never happened, but somehow were exactly the same as the fictitious claims that Fogen was later to make.
How do two people describe exactly the same fiction that neither of them could have witnessed? Coincidence??? Yeah, right!
Sybrina breaks down around the 3:29 mark when speaking how her brother Ronald Fulton inspired Trayvon to become interested in aviation. So heartbreaking…
I’m pretty tough, been through quite a bit… and still this is too painful to watch straight through. What makes it hurt so bad is, we have nut cases saying he deserved to be shot for nothing and a fool racist police man taking his picture out to the shooting range. How calloused can one get? Yeah, I know, I not only saw the film of Selma, but I lived with the horror as well. 2 million black people in jail because their parents weren’t allowed to even get close to having “white picket fences”, if you get my drift.
But boy did the HOA do the right thing because, if PhogenPhoole takes the stand, the HOA would be lucky not to be burned at the stake when he’s finished. They certainly would not want to have to even try to answer, why they threw a complainer out of a meeting, because that would enrage any jury. If GZ takes the stand he’s going to enrage the jury, not just convince them that he’s guilty beyond the shadow of reasonable doubt, but so enrage them to the point where they will be absolutely convinced of his certain guilt.
MOM and West know that their only concern will be, getting out of GZ’s reach swiftly when the verdict is read. Hope they check him for weapons on his way in.
When she and her sister spoke of their brother’s accident, I asked “How much can this one family bear?”
I deeply hope that their own lives are not shortened by the horror of Trayvon’s murder, and the public persecution by the killer, his family, and his representatives. That part is so despicable, the lowest of the low.
FAACTTCH ..hic…
From under the desk of RZimmmmmjr.
Myth 659 hashtag double scotch .My brother is not a self apointed great Merican, hashpipenotag.
This position was cannonised an voted on him by his queerpeers.
Myth 660..My brother did not phone LE on suspect because he was walking..Who pones L E to report a 9 year old child walking or a 17 year old walking.
He phoned on all the individualls because they where Black.
Part of an ethnic group that is proven risky.
Myth 661…MY BROTHER Did not follow profile chase terrify an detain a child carrying candy an juice on his way home to watch a B Ball game with his soon to be step brother..
This is pure hearsay have we even seen the tv entered into evidence.
Myth 662 My brother did not regulary mentor Black youths.If this is so why didnt he just ignore Trayvon that night,
Like so many liberal media types do.
No he took notice be cause he carea for all races.
He called LE to see if the suspect needed assistance.He kept an eye on him because he apearead to be on drugs or something an up to no good.
Most people woulve walked away but not careing shareing george my beloved brother.
Myth 663 My brother left the saftey of his warm truck to pusue an detain Trayvon when nothing could be further from the trith.
He knew police were on route an simply wante d an adress to meet them at as he didnt know were his truck was parked.
An he certainly never persued him armed as my brother was totally unaware he had the gun on his person .
Remember he had forgott.
So thars MYTH 664 he persued a child whillst armed.
Myth 665
Its not my brother screaming a primordeal terror produceing shreik more chilling than any holywood special effects could come up up useing every gizzmo at there dissposale.
Rather its Trayvon an inoccent child on his way home talking to his sweetheart armed with candy juice an 40 dollars an a few pennys that is responcable for the banshee wail of nighmare induceing terror.
MYTH666 From under the desk of zimmjunior hashpipe .Drool pooling around my mouth .
My brother is a freeloading P O S whom has no empathy for any other liveing creature animal mineral vegitable .
FROM THE DESK OF RACHAEL S
My GOD!!! Those EFFN IDIOTS!!!
I don’t like to name names, but I should because this one’s name totally reflects his lack of whatever but look what he writes (I wish I knew how to do the fancy stuff):
“TM’s suppressed criminal history reminds me so much of the thug who murderred my brother. His arrest record ran to two dozen, closely spaced pages of computer printout. Among his many crimes was a vicious assault on a pregnant ex-girlfriend who he attempted to administer an abortion to (infanticide) by repeatedly kicking her In the stomach with steel toed shoes. He was free on his own recognizance when he murderred my brother. The authorities understood that they were morally if not legally negligent in my brother’s death. The same is true in almost all homicides where an escalating series of criminal events that are not addressed by the police and the courts culminate in murder. The TM case is remarkable only because the dereliction of duty by the school police culminated in the criminal being justifiably killed. The suppression of evidence in the campaign to falsely prosecute GZ was motivated by the fear that the school district might (and should) be sued by GZ.”
__________________
WHAT THE HELL???!!!!
Don’t you think that should be GZ’s suppressed criminal history? I mean he does get ONE thing right:
“The same is true in almost all homicides where an escalating series of criminal events that are not addressed by the police and the courts culminate in murder.”
That is EXACTLY what happened to GZ because his criminal events were not addressed or “diverted.” HE BEAT ON A POLICE OFFICER FOR CHRIST’S SAKE!!!!!!
I’m working at home today, so I’m at my DESK, but I have to promise myself that that I will get my work done and not let my blood pressure get too high, but OMG, ughhhhh!!!!!
Eh, no chains, Rachael, no chains, or they’d be far more concerned about Fogen’s record than Trayvon’s non-record.
“All those who do harm are like a precious treasure . . .
. . . . because they help us build our practice of patience.”
@Rachael, regarding something from the Zimmerman wasp nest;
Wonder if his/her brother was walking home from the store minding his own business, wearing a hoodie? Or maybe it was a white hood with the eyes and mouth cut-out?
The key part of Witness 14’s observation is that the person he saw had on a red shirt.
And, that Witness 14 saw only one person who was on the ground–nobody else.
Well, if, in fact Trayvon and George were such a position together that one was on top and one was on the bottom, then which would be the easier one to see?
The answer is that it would be the person on top who was probably obscuring the bottom person from Witness 14’s sight. Because Witness 14 only saw one person…..the person in the red jacket……we know that George was on top.
MrPerryvine:
From the desk of esentrick
I really haven’t put much thought into Witness 14 statement but when you put it into that context it makes sense! Wow great post.
I agree. I hope that is checked out thoroughly – I mean onsite.
And it makes even more sense him saying like maybe his leg was broken because if that was what he was actually seeing, he was seeing Trayvon’s leg from underneath so it would look twisted if you thought it belonged to the person on top.
@yahtc
I jotted this down as one of GZ’s biggest gaffes ages ago (forgotten name of interviewer… neither Singleton nor Serino). It seemed to fit here.
U/c emphasis mine and the long text after is only to show that despite he managed to immediately correct his slip, GZ never explains what exactly DID he mean when he said “squirmed my way out”, because IMO nothing of what he describes fits with squirming “out” of anything while it does fit perfectly with squirming out “from under him”. His head only being a quarter on the concrete has some interest too.
@GBRBSB
Good catch, GB! When John W6 had his SECOND (corrective) interview he described the guy under (not in the dark hoodie) as rising, straining to reverse the position. When he looked out “they” were over by the dogwalk, then on the grass at the end. In the dark out there he cold not ascertain who was who.
It is not difficult for a trained MMA/brawler to overpower and overthrow someone pinning him down (someone with little strength left, like Trayvon, trying to pin GZ down. Soon, Trayvon lost the hold.)
PiranhaMom~ I think this other version is ALSO a lie. GZ didn’t have so much as a smudge on him. NO WAY he ‘wrestled’ with Trayvon that night. GZs clothes were too clean and tucked in to have been in a fight or a tussle.
@Cielo,
Need to “see” your theory – do you think GZ shot TM while both standing?
Or GZ was standing and TM on the ground and GZ leaned over and shot him? Then got down on the ground over him AFTERwards, as witnesses saw at the end?
The reason I believe this tussling on the ground took place without mussing up GZ is that (1) his jacket is almost indestructible, poly or poly/cotton – designed to be shower-resistant, packable, etc. (2) very wet grass, for slip-sliding along, and (3) It’s St. Augustine grass, very tough and unlikely to bruise – it’s the dormant season in Florida before spring growth, without lots of juice in the blades of grass – and it’s short and “thatchy” because it’s regularly mowed – so the grass doesn’t tear up. Kinda like Astroturf.
The bits of grass on GD’s boot-toe looked to me like clippings from the grass having been mowed.
Let me know how you think it progressed from the first verbal encounter to the shot. I think GZ grabbed TM’s shirt at first encounter and TM threw up his elbows in surprise, knocking GZ down and taking TM with him.
OR, Trayvon is pulled forward, off-balance, when his shirts are grabbed, knocking GZ and himself to the ground
At that point GZ could have gotten on top, with Trayvon yelling “Get off!” and then we heard the rest on Jenna’s 911 call: GZ takes his gun out right then; 40 seconds of screaming; then the shot.
Please give me your input. I respect your views.
Pirhanamom- I’m honored. Let me write it out logically and post it later.
Sent from my iPod
Thanks, Cielo –
Based on your previous comment, I am seriously thinking there was:
(1) the encounter – verbal, (“What are you doing … ” reported by both DeeDee AND Jenna of the HOA);
(2) with a GZ grab to TM’s shirt,
(3) a takeown/fall, as a result of the grab,
(4) with GZ on top, with TM yelling “Get offfff!”
(5) GZ “interrogating” with TM yelling “I don’t knooooowwwww,”
(6) GZ ordering TM to “Shut the fuck up! Keep quiet!” (which Jeremy interpreted as a directive from GZ to Jeremy to “keep quiet about what you are seeing” (i.e., don’t tell anyone) – we hear
Jeremy’s report to Jenna);
(7) GZ draws gun, tells TM “You gonna die tonight, motherfucker,”
(8) TM’s screams escalate – Unwavering (no motion by screamer involved)
(9) Shot fired;
(10) Scream ceases immediately;
(11) GZ seen by witnesses rising from the body, with TM prone.
(12) Cops arrive.
Elapsed time: not much more than a minute.
Is that how you see it? I have eliminated wrestling in the grass and changes of position, as reported by JohnW6. Nobody else reported seeing them on the ground before the shot. The young kid looking for his dog only saw the red-jacket guy – and if he were on top of TM, in the dark, that is exactly what the kid would see: one guy in a red jacket, as Lonnie has pointed out in irrefutable detail.
Through all of the above, GZ is totally unmussed, ready for the cover of Gentlemen’s Quarterly (if he were, in fact, a “gentleman”.)
Let me know the scenario as you see it. Thanks!
“… Nobody else reported seeing them on the ground before the shot.”
I don’t know if by “before the shot” you mean the whole struggle from first verbal exchange to the murder.
However, witness 18 was the only one that I know of who was looking at the two struggling before, during and after Trayvon was shot. She is an important, credible witness.
@parrot –
Absolutely credible, with a sustained view of the final encounter and struggle: ALL IN ONE PLACE.
No scooting around (which I believe is Cielo’s viewpoint).
I am coming around to seeing this, too. No wrestling from place-to-place, which would have messed up GZ’s wardrobe. Bandbox perfect as he disembarks in the sallyport at SPD.
This disregards JohnW6’s witness statement(s), which are not considered credible by many, due to his recanting and about-face.
BDLR has said that they have a witness who saw the whole thing from beginning to end, and that they also know that Trayvon made it home by using the most direct route. It was during one of the hearings where BDLR says that there is a witness to the entire encounter. But I do have the link to the first bond hearing where he says, or rather the Detective says they know that Trayvon made it home and used the most direct route from the mail kiosk. http://tinyurl.com/bn5e4xe Look right down near the bottom for the link to Tzar’s post.
Lonnie~ “made it home” but didn’t enter?
________________________________
My best guess is: “Made it home but could not enter”. Trayvon isn’t a coward, he bravely faced the flames to save his fathers life. He wouldn’t seek to enter the house while being followed, knowing that would put Chad at risk. So, if there was someone out there within sight of him entering the house, he would probably turn away. Those houses aren’t a bit like safe rooms. The rear of the house is just a glass patio door. A sharp rap and it shatters, giving entry to the ill intended.
Things would certainly have been different if Trayvon’s father or Brandy were home, he’d probably call out for them. But, with only Chad there, he’d just be getting Chad into trouble. Trayvon bravely turned away to save Chad and accept the troubles on himself.
Of course, we don’t know if that was GZ behind him, it could very well have been Osterman or Taaffe and Trayvon would not know. Trayvon would have to run north to get away and, as he did so, GZ could simply come through one of the cut throughs behind Trayvon as he
passed, letting MO or Taaffe move away into the background again.
The Zimmercreep would be so excited to have his hands on his prey, he forgot about the need to push Trayvon down to the T to match the story he planned to tell. Or, by this time Trayvon’s yelling was attracting witnesses, making it impossible to move around freely without being seen.
GZ tells the same story anyway, even though Trayvon was not at the T, because GZ already has the blood on his head, that he had prepared before hand, so perhaps someone was supposed to pour a little blood on the walkway down by the T and that’s what GZ had in mind, that his story had to match the plan. However, when his cohort saw that GZ wasn’t going to reach the T, he decided not to pour the blood, since the story would obviously have to be changed.
Then the very publicly announced “call my wife…” was simply a ruse to provide cover for MO and Shelly to explain being there so soon.
@Lonnie –
Geez, Lonnie, whose blood was supposed to have been collected in advance to pour on the concrete?
Were these the Three Stooges who Never Heard of DNA?
If they were planning some ruse to enable GZ to claim self-defense, why not give GZ some deadly weapon to plant on GZ? One that wouldn’t host fingerprints?:
They, obviously couldn’t afford a gun that would have been either untraceable or traceable to someone prepared.
The blood illustration is just to show how pre-planning can get one locked into a story about a situation that is dynamic. There’s evidence dropped at the T, even though the body is 40 feet away, clearly the story needs some adjustment, yet none is ever made.
Anything wrong with this picture? Is GZ on drugs?
@Lonnie –
Follow up –
Correction: should be ” … to plant on Trayvon.”
@Lonnie Starr. It was the first bond hearing where Gilbreath, under cross by BDLR, said that they determined the route Trayvon took was heading home. He didn’t say Trayvon made it home.
In the 2/29/12 interrogation, Serino told GZ that an anonymous witness stated there was a verbal encounter before things went to the ground, and that GZ attempted to restrain Trayvon.
In his interview with Dr. Phil, Osterman said that GZ got out of his truck to see where “he was suppose to be.” That conveys there was a plan on where “the assholes” who always get away were suppose to be captured — by the back gate.
Someone here pointed out too that the cops saw or tracked GZ’s truck on Twin Oaks by GPS.
Oh great, just wrote a reply and it disappeared while I was trying to get the link. Anyway let’s try again.
That was me who spotted the header on the NEN call that notes the nearest intersection as Long Oaks Way. That has to be the E911 auto GPS function at work, since I doubt the operator would have bothered to type that information, even if he had it in front of him.
I doubt that the system displays actual GPS coordinates, but instead displays a location on a dynamically updating map. This is probably why Sean says “Are you following him?”. Not because of the noises he hears on the phone, but because he’s actually able to watch GZ’s phone moving around. That is what E911 is supposed to do, allow the call center to locate and track callers, so they can provide assistance, even when the caller is unable to give their location.
This system was implemented in 2008-09 in Sanford as part of a state wide 911 system upgrade. It uses military grade GPS signals placing locations with an accuracy of 2 to 3 feet.
Trayvon’s phone would have had a GPS system too, because mfg’s installed a chip for it, because it had become a popular way for service providers to earn extra money, by providing location sensitive ads. MOM has let it be known that GPS data has been retrieved from Trayvon’s phone, but says that he received data for all times that Trayvon was in Sanford, EXCEPT 2/26/12. Of course we know that not all claims MOM makes are true, so this one is unlikely to be true, unless there is some justification that would allow the SP to hold back such discovery.
Anyway the first bond hearing was posted by Tzar and I’ve added it to the HERE, it’s really stunning to watch considering that there is so much argument over TM’s route and timing etc.,
@Lonnie Starr.
That is why the State is very confident is saying that GZ “pursued” Trayvon.
You know, as I watched the interrogation of Jodi Arias, it was entertaining hearing her ask the detective how they obtained certain evidence. For instance, “How do you know it’s my palm print?”
Can you imagine GZ asking O’Mara how the State knows he was not returning to his truck and was neither at the T?
TICK TOCK.
On the NEN call page there’s a box up top that’s labeled “nearest intersection” and I’m pretty sure that’s an auto fill box. Filled in by the E911 software. There would also be an onscreen map, showing the location of the cell phone calling in. That indicator will move as the caller moves, otherwise what would be the point of GPS enabling E911? So, while we’re listening to the tape and we hear GZ start huffing and puffing, we say sure, no wonder Sean realized GZ was following Trayvon.
But you see… Police authorities have long known that you don’t let everyone know everything all the time. Because if you do, people will find a way to defeat you. So Sean doesn’t say “I see that you’re following him.” He says “Are you following him?” Had GZ answered no, he would have sealed his fate right then and there. But for some reason GZ realized he’d better not lie on this point, so he says yes he is. All the while wondering how Sean knew that.
Truth is, heavy breathing and strange noises over the phone aren’t going to give you a very good idea of what someone is doing. Of course, it says a lot about what the SPD thinks of GZ, if Sean expects GZ to follow. But the point is, Sean was most likely watching GZ’s phone as it began rapidly moving across the screen.
I’m pretty sure that the E911 system allows the operator to keep tracking a phone, even after the caller hangs up. Otherwise a dropped call or otherwise broken connection could easily thwart rescue. Sean has only to tap a key and he’s tracking GZ up until the police arrive. GZ is toast.
@Lonnie Starr
That explains why after Sean asked if GZ wanted to meet the cop at the mail boxes, and GZ changed his mind and wanted the cop to call him for his location, that Sean would believe GZ was going in a direction opposite of the mail boxes and thus, also not where his truck was parked.
If you go back and listen to the NEN tape again, at the end of the call it seems inconsequential, but Sean doesn’t say that he’ll have the police call when they get there, he says that he’ll do it. Which could mean that he’ll call the police when they get there, but it could very well mean that he’ll call the police and tell them where you are when they get there.
I’m pretty sure GZ was given a tour of the E911 call center at some point in time, funny he never seems to remember the consequences of having data recorded and stored. When Sean said “okay I’ll call him when he gets there”, that should have rung a bell in GZ’s head. Which is probably exactly what Sean was trying to do, alert GZ that his movements were being tracked without saying so in so many words on a recorded call.
He couldn’t tell GZ that he had GPS on him, since that might have caused GZ to put the phone down to avoid being tracked, and Sean would have been fired. GZ is toast!
Toast, well burnt please. O’ Mara and Fogen have no clue as to what kind of Buzz Saw they walking blindly into. Not like when Moe drags a saw over Curley’s head mind you, we’re talking 12 foot in diameter, industrial size…….Whirrrrrrrrrrrrrr Zinggggggggg
Yep the walls are a crumbling fast. The whole darned family now realizes there is something really serious going on. Those who spoke out on GZ’s behalf are now facing some serious charges as theories of their own involvement and what they may have done to conceal it, are substantiated with evidence and promise to bear fruit.
Justice for Trayvon
Hoodies up!!!
|||=> Tick Tock! Clink Clank <-||| 😀
Yep !!!!
Justice for Trayvon
Hoodies up!!!
|||=> Tick Tock Clink Clank <+||| 😀
@Lonnie,
Wow, Lonnie, that military-grade GPS info is stunning! And to think Sean can testify as to GZ’s movement as observed on the scanner in front of Sean during the 311 call!
The defense must be shaking in its boots …
Have you read up on the e911 system?
Understandably they don’t want to give out much on what it can do. But it’s not hard to figure out what it’s capabilities are.
That’s a very good composite. What we don’t realize very often is, there are different scenarios because different witnesses testify to seeing different things. This creates a whole different set of “must be’s” [as in: it must be this or it must be that] and these are usually resolved by placing the actors in the different positions, then trying to draw lines between where they were to how they got to the next position.
Of course if any of these observations are mistaken, the entire effort is thrown off course. Then the answer is to do what you have done, throw out the controversial mid points and go straight from start to finish, picking up only the points most likely to be trustworthy.
1. The fight moved from the concrete to the grass says Fogen.
Answer: Self serving statements are unreliable. omit!
2. W6 sees fight move from grass to the concrete, with MMA blows being rapidly and forcefully thrown.
Answer: A helpful set of lies by a friend who contradicts 1. and later retracts MMA blows as untrue! Omit!
Keep going…
@Lonnie,
I always work back from the trajectory of the shot. How did this happen? Then I try hang the evidence and “the unknowns” on the tree. Later some of the “unknowns” crash off.
I suspect we are in for amazing surprises, come June …
Won’t bother me in the least to find my scenario is wrong — as long as the evidence convicts Zimmerman.
PirhanaMom~ I’m not married to my theory, either. It’s just my visual of what happened taking into account variables that I think of as key pieces of evidence. As long as he is convicted, I don’t care if I was WAY off the mark.
@ Cielo –
We’re all united on this: however Bernie de la Rionda successfully convinces the jury to convict Zimmerman – that’s the scenario we love!
PirhanaMom~ “My version” is based on a few details that have really struck me. I agree with Lonnie that there is a back story somewhere, maybe based on mistaken identity, or maybe getting a “stooge” to blame for the loss of the $3,000 laptop. Maybe I’ve read too many stories, but I could see the blame being shifted to “some kid visiting in the neighborhood” for the loss of the laptop. Maybe the 3 stooges fingered him for GZs wrath. So GZ decides to punish this nosy intruder that messed up his heist. Maybe he was depending on the money he would have received for that item, and he finds himself in a financial pickle (again). Anyway, GZ confronts Trayvon. Trayvon askes GZ why he is following him (“why are you following me?”). GZ responds with a challenge to his turf (“What are you doing around here?”). GZ pushes Trayvon to elicit a violent response. Trayvon yells “Get off!”. This shove disconnects the phone call to Dee Dee. Instead of a violent reponse, Trayvon takes off again,with renewed energy by adrenalin. This run creates the debris field. Trayvon slips or is pushed on the wet grass. He lands probably on his knees, then turns around to face GZ. He ends up sitting on his butt. GZ “mounts” him (another episode of mirroring behavior). GZ makes no contact with the ground, except for his boot tips. No tussle. GZ proceeds to pin Trayvon with his knees to the ground while Trayvon screams in pain. This is when the “interrogation” takes place. He gets no useful information. Enraged, GZ stands and yanks Trayvon to his feet. That would not be hard for a former bouncer. He pulls his gun and Trayvon starts his haunting screams. GZ shoots; the scream ends with the shot. The key points for me: They are both standing. Trayvon is pulling away but facing GZ. Dynamic but with little movement from the spot. After the shot, of course the body falls limply to the ground. GZ does his frisking for a weapon and/or bullet hole. That is how I “see” the episode. There can be no tussle; GZ is too clean. The shot HAS to be from a standing position to satisfy the ballistics. As for the child witness who says he saw only one guy on the grass with a red jacket; it doesn’t fit with the documented cleanliness of GZs appearance. I feel his testimony was tainted onsite or afterwards. Kids are notorious for NOT getting details, and will often repeat the last thing they heard. (I say this as a teacher of 20 years experience working with kids). I also support that GZ came pre-wounded to the fight and the excersion caused the head wounds to leak a little during the interrogation. Hence the blood trails. The nose boo-boo was from the recoil of his cheap-ass popgun. I don’t know if we’ll ever get the real details, but that is what I see based on the evidence. Let me know if I failed to account for anything.
@Cielo,
WOW! a lot to consider here!
Do you shoot? I do, and if I had TM pinned to the ground with my knees on his arms, and I was clutching his shirts – which I had done from the first moment of encounter, to control and detain him – I would simply raise my ass (because my knees are kneeling on Trayvon’s arms) which would, in fact, be more comfortable for me, then reach back with my “shooting arm”, pluck the Kel-Tek from my waistband holster, LEAN OVER TRAYVON’S TORSO, and position the gun vertically to Trayvon’s chest – maybe even nudge it to the badge (we don’t know yet the relationship of the badge to the bullet hole). The shooter’s right hand meets the victim’s left chest where the heart is located. Incredibly easy to place the muzzle of the gun and fire. And, if I were GZ at that moment (and with a shaved head, yet), the fresh narrow scrapes on the back of my head would bleed in the downward, forward motion.
I keep checking out installed (not new at the store) sprinkler heads and the screw in the center is often slightly raised. The screw sets emitter pressure so directs how far the water shoots out. And often the sprinkler heads do not fully retract after the water is turned off, because calcium and other minerals in the water build up around the screw – does not create problems for sprinkling. Does gouge your shaved head if you drag it across.
Or – running between buildings may have thrown or tripped GZ into leafless trees/shrubs, just before grabbing Trayvon.
I agree the kickback from the Kel-Tek caused the facial blood – because beady-eyed GZ had to lean OVER Trayvon’s chest in close proximity – just inches – to center the shot, and fire. If they were standing, his face would be much further away from the recoil and it would not zap him.
I don’t go around shooting people, but during the 70’s I worked in counter-terrorism (but not as an agent) and spent a lot of time with cops. Some of their outlook wears off. I like the guys I worked with (they were all guys at that time except for one female Inspector at Scotland Yard in 1985) but they were assigned to me – so I expect I got the pick of the crop. And they were often good hunting buddies. So I can only say it is way off the moon to hold on to somebody vertically to shoot them. First – THEY’VE GOT THEIR ARMS FREE, so they can grab the gun and shoot YOU, or at least deflect your shot by smashing your arm aside. And they would be moving in some attempt to escape. If you have them detained by grasp you don’t take out your gun to threaten them. You just say “Hold it – I’ve got a gun.” In fact, since most cops’ guns are at their sides, they don’t want to be close to a “detainee”. They’ll usually yell, “Freeze! Get your hands up!”, THENSTEP BACK OUT OF RANGE when the suspect’s arms are elevated, then keep their hand in proximity to the gun, ready to fire. “Never let the suspect get close enough to even lunge for your gun.” This is not ballroom dancing.
And what if Trayvon WERE armed? GZ didn’t know, or not.
Would you take the chance of dragging a possibly armed “suspect thug” upright, with his arms free – ready to go for his OWN gun? What’s with the idea of putting any quarry in a position to do you harm – or spoil your aim?
Now, I know GZ is plenty stupid about a lot of things and was not trained as an officer – just taught informally “to shoot” by Osterman and develop his eye for target shooting. (Did he have pit-bull images as targets?) Supposedly, he was being trained to defend himself.
On the other hand, Osterman was an experienced cop, so surely he warned GZ to KEEP THE GUN AWAY FROM HIS ASSAILANT’S GRASP. That’s one of the problems for untrained “home defense”: – that’s how, often, the bad guy gets your gun. If you are going to shoot, shoot from a distance. If he starts to advance toward you SHOOT NOW. A sure sign he will be a deadly threat (with your weapon) is if he won’t get his hands in the air.
It is so easy for the prosecution to equate the trajectory of the bullet with both killer and victim in the upright position, using the Medical Examiner’s testimony and referring to (their own version of) LLMPapa’s brilliant analysis of relative height of the killer and his victim.
My guess is that the prosecution won’t get into the position at the time of the shot because it’s so complicated — UNLESS there’s some damning FIBER EVIDENCE they can introduce. We know none of that yet. If there’s no additional conclusive evidence I think Bernie would let them assume the shooting was vertical and that Trayvon was so docile he stood stock-stil out of fear.
But if there’s anyone experienced in combat on that jury, there’s going to be concern.
Yes, there is the debris field, but I see those items in close proximity to “the takedown” and a result of the preliminary struggle.
But the whole argument is “self defense” and it can be SO proved GZ was not under Trayvon. Of course, one of the many reasons I came to believe “GZ on top” was that GZ always says “the other guy did what I really did.”
I am fascinated by the conspiracy prospect but the prosecution has to bring EVIDENCE forward to support that or O’Mara would make Bernie look like a fool (which is an amazing concept). Lonnie is the consummate crime scholar and I am impressed by all the plausible theories brought forth but have no evidence on which I can embrace those theories.
So, Cielo – a lot more info to look forward to, right?
PirhanaMom~ I’m honored you spent so much time on my visualization! I don’t shoot anything but spitballs. What you say makes sense, about just lifting up your butt a few inches to make the shot. But GZs arm movements during his 2 interviews show him consistently having his shooting arm straight. Since it’s one of the few things he doesn’t change in his narratives, I think it might be true. Accounting for that arm position, he would have had to have been standing. Why lock your elbows for shooting if you are hovered over your target? And would that position you suggest account for the straight back to front entry? I agree that fiber analysis will provide some more clues. I just never bought that “tussle” scene. GZ was too clean right afterwards. His vitals were NORMAL, after killing a human being and supposedly in a fight for his life. GZ could have gotten those baby scratches from slipping on the grass and conking his melon head on the dog poop sign. I’ve gotten worse scratches medicating a cat. All I can say is, June can’t get here soon enough. Hoodies up! Tick, Tock!
@Cielo –
Yes, like you, I saw ” … GZs arm movements during his 2 interviews show him consistently having his shooting arm straight. Since it’s one of the few things he doesn’t change in his narratives, I think it might be true.”
So here’s how I took those performances:
GZ was demonstrating “supercop” shooting skills he learned from all those shooting lessons with Osterman, and those hundreds if not thousands of bullets they wasted on those paper targets.
He proudly demonstrated his non-wavering Cool Hand Luke, “make my day!” gun-handling skills. Liked showing how unflappable and brave he was, finishing off the baddie without even flinching.
He was performing for his audience: Sanford Police Department. He craved their admiration..
Then LATER, it hit me: WATCH HIS OTHER HAND!
He has his dominant left hand CURLED UP, really, really CLOSE TO HIS CHEST unconsciously remembering how he CLUTCHED Trayvon’s shirts.
THAT unconscious re-creation of his hand told me he had Trayvon DETAINED and did NOT have to kill Trayvon to save his own life. There was NO “self defense.”
Further, it’s hysterically funny that the bravado he shows with his proud, outstretched arm DEBUNKS his story of firing into Trayvon from underneath.
But the hand he’s paying absolutely no attention to – the left, dominant arm – that hand DOES REMEMBER the position it was in when the shot was fired — it was grasping Trayvon’s shirts, to keep Trayvon steady as Zimmerman literally closed in for the kill, leaning over Trayvon, with that “in your face” mode, telling Trayvon, “You’re going to die tonight, mother-fucker,” then firing that single, CAREFULLY-placed shot into Trayvon’s heart.
Please watch the re-creation again, Cielo, especially when he’s videod (without realizing it) talking to the stress-test operator.
When Trayvon’s shirts are grasped as Zimmerman unconsciously shows, so close to Zimmerman’s chest, and you account for the “air lock” between shirts and body — how could Zimmerman POSSIBLY shoot with OUTstretched arm?
NO ROOM to stretch out his arm.
At the time of the shot, his elbow was bent, and his wrist bent carefully to place the muzzle of the gun, perpendicular to Trayvon’s chest, as Trayvon was pinned to the ground, so he could shoot straight into the heart.
He did not want to shoot at an angle, because that might not have killed him. He wanted to drill that bullet straight in, and he did.
With a liar like Zimmerman and all his heroic fiction, I’m placing my bet on what he DOESN’T try to “show to impress.”
I watched what is second-nature to Zimmerman’s DOMINANT HAND — “the hand that remembers” – his left: CURLED AND GRASPING SO CLOSE TO ZIMMERMAN’S OWN CHEST.
That is the arm, the hand, THE MOTION THAT I BELIEVE.
Not trying to convince you, Cielo, Just telling you what I saw and how it convinced me.
On the issue of the muss-free George, I agree with you on the band-box freshness of Zimmerman’s wardrobe. Kneeling on Trayvon’s arms to immobilize him, the only part of Zimmerman to touch earth would be the front tips of his boots. And we have all seen the photos of that grass.
But there is more coming down the pike for us to see and learn.
What we are all agreed on is that Zimmerman’s sorry lie about “being under Trayvon, with Zimmerman’s life at risk”, is total garbage.
And so it will come to pass, that Zimmerman’s future is headed to the dumps, also.
@cielo62.
I agree. It has always been my belief that they were standing when GZ fired the gun. When I listened to the 911 tape that captured the screams, I could see it. After GZ told Trayvon to shut the f up, he thought Trayvon would submit, and began standing him up. But Trayvon tried turning to run and he screamed again. That is when we hear Trayvon begin a faint “help” that is cut short as though his body was jerked. Then the gun shot.
I also believe that the injury to GZ’s nose was caused by the gun’s recoil since he shot with one hand. In the video for the voice stress test, watch GZ as he shows the recoil.
It happened fast.
@Xena.
Agree, Xena, on the recoil, particularly because GZ had to shoot one-handed, by necessity, 2/26/12 and the Kel-Tek is so lightweight and flimsy, without the mass to absorb the energy in the recoil.
It was “POW! right to the kisser”, as Jackie Gleason liked to say.
The overhead video with the stress-test operator is one of my faves. I don’t think Zimmerman was aware he was being taped.
He was intent on impressing the operator, and not playing to the camera.
Took me months and months to catch what GZ was doing unconsciously with this dominant left hand, as he tells his story.
BUT – whatever scenario Bernie advances to the jury, it will debunk GZ’s claim that he was a helpless attack victim under Trayvon that night.
The purpose of having these theories is not to simply amuse, but it’s to have a frame in place in case meaningful evidence is caught, but has no theory needed to give it the context it needs. Evidence without a theory of what it means is useless.
Let’s say they release the cctv’s from the other stores and complexes in the area and we notice the same car the 3 stooges arrived at the 711 in, coursing along the same route Trayvon would have taken to get home. Without a theory of what part these 3 guys could play in the saga, the meaning of this data could easily be lost. Especially if there is only one instance of capture. Because that would seem errant, coincidental and meaningless. With a theory of their possible involvement in place, one would then look to see how long it might have taken them to get to this point. It it takes them as long or longer to drive the distance that Trayvon has walked, well… Then we know what conclusions to jump to 😀
Also you’ll no doubt note, I don’t just dream up these theories out of whole cloth, but there has to be evidence enough to indicate that some speculation is in order.
@Lonnie,
I’m not disagreeing with any of your theories – or the value of theorizing. And I don’t see any of this done for amusement. I think it’s important to note all details that COULD BE applicable, and have a place to plug in evidence when it becomes available. So there is enormous merit in what you are doing, and everyone who contributes theories/scenarios/concepts.
What I have been saying is that I am not YET (repeat: YET)convinced of conspiracy or “pre-injury by GZ” scenarios.
I think Osterman was on board – he was certainly “on site” immediately – but do not yet perceive the killing was premeditated in advance with others.
I am an avid follower of your work and believe it has tremendous value. You are detailed, analytical and persistent, putting together the facts you discern with great logic.
As I keep saying, “There’s more to learn.”
That day is coming soon.
PirhanaMom~ I think Osterman’s role was to help in the APPREHENSION of Trayvon. But GZ, being both a loser and an hothead, decided to kill Trayvon. I’m sure Osterman was extremely pissed at that turn of events, so he spirited Zimmerman away that same night to get a story pieced together. In order to justify an apprehension, Zimmerman also needed some “proof” of a crime. He was going for assault, not theft. Trayvon smacks Zimmerman, Zimmy can claim detaining Trayvon for assault. Hence, the pre-wounds.
Food for thinking:
[it’s difficult writing and keeping it brief as well, so re-read it using several different views of what I seem to be saying. Then post back your own questions and ideas. This is not a contest, it is an investigation, where we start with the possibility that people who commit crimes, will go to great lengths to avoid paying serious consequences]
—–
—–
I’ve been trying, periodically, to work with a theory like yours [and mine too], but I find problems. One problem, easily solved is, why MO needs to be covered for, he was there to help apprehend Trayvon, but he still did not want to be a part of the scene when the police arrived. This makes sense because with his credentials, he’d make a strong supporter for GZ from the background. So, he’d have the “Call my wife” ruse as a standard plan. The trouble with this idea is that it would mean that MO went on patrols with him often. This could easily be accomplished if MO kept his distance from GZ, so no one would recognize them as partners then.
Otherwise, if MO does not regularly hunt with GZ, and this was a one-off thing. How does a low level thing like a simple apprehension, require this level of planning? How do they achieve it for just this one single event? Because to work it requires they have Shelly’s position somewhere outside RATL as well. So, although I see no evidence that MO goes on these patrols with GZ, there is a real possibility that they did at times. If so, did MO know Ransberg(burg) and Burgess? If he spends any time at RATL, he has the skill set that would put these boys on his radar, for sure. Remember, he was fired for corruption, not incompetence.
Make no mistake, this is Florida and a very racist county to boot. I have no doubt that had Trayvon not been killed, Tracey and Brandy et al could have raised a bit of a stink, but it would have all been put to rest quietly without any charges, there certainly would have been no Atty Crump or Sharpton. The racists in charge would have simply stood their ground, and without a death, there would have been no way to build any momentum, so the whole thing would have died, or developed into a minor civil suit against GZ and the HOA, but with no national and little local attention.
So that would have been a basic plan, which did not include any killing. But, once GZ had killed TM, he would realized then how important it would be, to ensure that MO had his cover, so that he could be free to lend ongoing support. Trouble there is, it pre supposes that there will be some investigation. Nor is that indication of pre-planning a little thing. Think about this: Since GZ abides by NW rules so scrupulously on every other call in, he obviously knows the rules by heart. But the devices GZ uses on the NEN call on 2/26/12 are not created ‘on the fly”, since they require advanced planning.
In fact, it makes great sense that there is a NEN call, contrived from the earliest, to provide cover for all GZ’s support team. Hence the call is contrived to start with a coincidental sighting near Taaffe’s place. Providing cover for all by making it appear that GZ does not need any supporters. But, when was it realized that the call should start there? Probably not on the spot, so it’s more likely than not that something was planned.
Yet another thing to think about is, to make this story work, someone would have to know that Trayvon had actually gone to the 711, and not to the MI bank eh? Since, according to the story, Trayvon had not been seen going anywhere and returning. GZ would not know about the skittles and tea until after he killed Trayvon. Ostensibly no one would have known where Trayvon was, until he appeared in the cut through at FT’s. But, GZ actually does not see Trayvon until he looks in the mail kiosk.
So, how does he know to construct a tale about Trayvon coming by FT’s, where GZ passes way too late to see him there? Why does he get this path of travel so right? Just a wild guess? Like the wild guess he made to leave home and head straight for the mail kiosk?
Of course, my point is: You can’t have too many “favorable” things that must happen, ~ happen by coincidence! One coincidence, occurring fortuitously on time is fine. But when you need more than one, and they both [or even more] happen on time, in just the right way, place and time to further the operation, you have a falsehood.
So, these “conspiracy theories” I seem to be dreaming up, are really attempts to replace the various coincidences, with alternative causes. Happy Hunting.
|||=> Tick Tock! <-|||
Lonnie. The coincidence of Fogen spotting Trayvon at Taaffe’s from day one never sold me. Then the timeline crushed that. Then it turns out Frank “The Racist Tank”: is Fogens friend and a big mouth, giving clues as he goes. It became obvious Fogen is lying. At 1st I thought he called Fogen and now with information about the “Condo Connection” it seems Trayvon was being observed well before.
Phone records…..it’s going to come to phone records. I’ll bet the farm SheLie was with him, exited the truck, went one way and Osterliar was there on a different route. Trayvon being on edge by Fogen following him was “herded” back and that’s where Fogen confronted him. SheLie’s recent phone records retrieval is a key.
The digital age is just too much for these “Conservative” types to handle, eh?
You got that right. God forbid anything rock their precious little racist boats……like the truth or reality.
I’m with you on not liking some of my theories, some of them don’t impress me much at all either, but I can’t stand to see, what could be valuable evidence go to waist, if it points somewhere that might be fruitfully explored.
They started the Ransberg(burg) questions when they used him and Burgess to show that “they don’t always get away”. But they mentioned that Ransberg(burg) was white and that he traveled with three blacks. So, it struck me as rather odd that a white guy would show up at 711, with two black guys in tow, what with Burgess being in jail the count just seemed to click.
I’m still on the fence about whether it was premeditated or not. By which I mean not a spur of the moment decision, but the result of a longer advanced plan. Of course, as Professor has pointed out, it could be murder 1, based only on that final split second. But I’m not yet dealing with that. Although I do believe that GZ decided to pull the trigger without facing any real threat. The prosecution is probably not willing to risk it all on an M1 trial.
@Lonnie Starr
Although I had not thought about it along those lines, I can now see the application.
You noticed the behavior of the 3 stooges in the 7-Eleven, and Trayvon leaving just after they drove off. I had not noticed that. Now I am able to use an outline involving evidence and theory. For instance, my theory is based on GZ using NW as a cover-up for his gang of thieves. That is based on evidence from his MySpace page; how he behaved in court as ShelLIE misrepresented her knowledge of the Paypal donations, and his gang tattoo.
Moving along from there;
Evidence: GZ abandoned his home just after leaving the police station after he killed Trayvon.
Question: Why would he do that? It’s a gated community. Although anyone might have been able to walk into the community, only residents or visitors in vehicles let in by residents can do a “drive-by.”
Logical answer: GZ had to be afraid of someone who resides in that gated community.
Evidence: GZ associated his observation of Burgess with his reason for thinking Trayvon was suspicious.
Question: Why would GZ use his observation of Burgess, who he had seen previously in that community on garbage days, with Trayvon who he said he had not seen before?
Logical answer: Burgess is somehow involved in GZ’s reason for wanting to “capture” Trayvon, but not for the reason GZ gives. Burgess resided in that community.
Then you came along with the theory that Burgess was a member of the ring including the 3 stooges.
I am still convinced that someone beat the daylights out of GZ that Friday or Saturday resulting in the head boo-boo’s, and picking at the scalps started the bleeding again that Sunday evening.
PiranhaMom~ I posted mine before I read this. Yes, it’s pretty much what I had envisioned except for a few details. You’ll see in my complete post. I don’t think GZ was ever totally “on top of” Trayvon, except maybe for the frisking and turning over a limp body. The only thing you missed was the debris field.
Yahtzee+Rachael+gbrbsb+George’s tendency to claim for himself what his victim does=Trayvon was squirming to get away from under (that insane, evil) Fogen, so Fogen shot him from on top of him while grabbing sweatshirts to keep him from getting away.
Oh, do I hope the “cleaned up 911 call” shows exactly what this evil son-of-a-gun has done. And the fiber testing. And the RATL witnesses. I hope the State doesn’t have to turn to Shellie or Mark Osterman at all.
@Cercando Luce
Oh yes!! And GZ’s phone records; his medical history; why he does not have a gun registered to himself; and whether his CCL was valid. And — And, what did the FDLE observe of his actions when he left town until he rolled into Jacksonville.
@cercando luce
What ? Are you saying GZ is actually saying that Trayvon managed to squirm out from underneath him!!!???
CL, methinks you are confused. GZ has basically two types of slips and the interviews are littered with both types:
1. He inadvertently lets the truth out and quickly corrects it
2. He tries to project onto Trayvon what he was doing.
In this case, as I am sure you are not trying to say that Trayvon squirmed out from underneath GZ, from the extremely fluid description he was giving Singleton, and from my own logic, this is a type 1. slip, i.e. GZ was underneath Trayvon but as he says managed to squirm his way out from underneath which if you take it further put him in a position to be able to shoot Trayvon which he did… it puts him on top. This is not to say Trayvon wasn’t squirming to get away, just that in this case GZ is not projecting, he is merely telling the plain and simple truth which is HE GOT OUT FROM UNDERNEATH changing a hell of a lot in his story and not in his favour.
@GBRBSB
re: “This is not to say Trayvon wasn’t squirming to get away, just that in this case GZ is not projecting, he is merely telling the plain and simple truth which is HE GOT OUT FROM UNDERNEATH changing a hell of a lot in his story and not in his favour.”
That is how John W^ described in his second (corrective) interview that he saw Zimmerman trying to rise and reverse his position – he ha not yet scooted over to the dogwalk.
I know JohnW6 is heavily discounted here, but I thought that second interview was credible – and compelling.
Yes, Trayvon WAS underneath gz trying unsucessfully (maybe by squirming) to get out of that position. However, sadly, gz remained on top.
And, gz remained in control and shot Trayvon dead.
@gbrbsb:
Trayvon’s clothing was embedded with debris front and back, whereas the evil clod looked like he was fresh from the cleaners, front and back (except the toes of his shoes), in his police-station photos.
I think there’s a third variable, although not a slip: George “borrows” his victim’s actions for his lies, which makes them easier to believe because he describes a detailed sequence of actions that actually happened(to his victim) which he observed– and he claims it for himself.
Trayvon squirmed trying to escape his tormentor, and his hoody slid up. IMO, the single blood-drop from GZ on the bottom of Trayvon’s undershirt dripped from behind GZ’s head, possibly before he grabbed the shirts and shot. If he were on top at the time of the shot, with his firing arm bent as he showed in his interviews, the gun was close to his face and unsupported, it kicked back into his nose (hence nosebleed), and the shell casing hit and burnt the side of bridge of nose (still looks like a burn months later).
The more I think about it,
0.) the more I loathe the lying defendant, if possible, and
1.) the more I think the defendant remained on top of his victim for a full minute before killing him. Feared for his life, not so much.
@Cercando.
None of us have seen the dimensions and shape of the Zimmerman blood on Trayvon’s undershirt – we just see that it was identified after analysis by the Medical Examiner for DNA.
This was sweatshirt material also. They can identify by shape (droplet or smear, for example) for the jurors.
I believe Zimmerman’s blood got on the front undershirt after the shot, when Zimmerman was searching the body. He was rummaging around looking for a gun/holster – first in front, then flipped him over and searched in back – where Zimmerman kept his holster (“Flipped” is the word Det. Serino used.)
Zimmerman’s blood would have gotten on Zimmerman’s hand without Z thinking – he put his finger to his lip or nose because it was uncomfortably sticky, simply by reflex. I think the recoil snapped back and cracked Z on the lip/lower nose (or just the lip.) At that point, he bled, then Zimmerman checked it out with his finger, One of those quick moves people make without even thinking. Then, within a few seconds, that hand smeared it on Trayvon’s undershirt during the weapons search.
Zimmerman would hope to find Trayvon to be armed, because it would bolster Z’s story that Trayvon was a thug, and Z was thus in fear for his life.
Also, witnesses saw Zimmerman running his hands over Trayvon’s body (his back) after the shot. I believe he was checking for an exit wound. He would not expect one, because he used a hollow-point bullet, – but if there WERE an exit wound, the bullet would be embedded in the earth, and it would be proof that Z shot Trayvon while he had Trayvon pinned to the ground, meaning big trouble for Z. The hollow-point, however, performed as expected.
I agree that Trayvon was imprisoned by Z the whole length of the scream, because there were no volume fluctuations as would be caused by movement.
The terror Trayvon felt cannot be imagined.
The depravity exhibited by Zimmerman can, and will be be shown.
Zimmerman likely had a full minute to consider causing the death of this young person. He went right ahead and did it.
From the desk of racerrodig
Well said. Knowing FogenPhoole had that much time to terrorize Trayvon makes on sick. I can'[t wait for the second when the Jury Foreperson says “…guilty of murder in the 2nd degree” I hope he passes out and wackes his head on the chair, then the table,
O’ Mara tries to help him stay upright, but they go down and get their noggins bashed.
@Racer,
“I can’[t wait for the second when the Jury Foreperson says “…guilty of murder in the 2nd degree” I hope he passes out and whacks his head on the chair, then the table,
“O’ Mara tries to help him stay upright, but they go down and get their noggins bashed.
Yep, Racer – “two bloody noses, comin’ up!”
From the desk of racerrodig
I think it will be “..undisputed..” Fogen broke my nose….I believe I have probable cause.
From the Desk Of Lonnie Starr:
I wonder if they will allow the jury to find him Guilty of Murder 2 “With Special Circumstances”? Meaning aggravated and such.
Don’t worry, there’s no chance of GZ taking anyone with him if he goes down. Everyone will have edge away to safe distances from him. Court officers won’t move unless he lunges for the door, otherwise they’ll just watch. MOM and West will stand back and probe GZ with sticks to keep a safe distance.
From the desk of racerrodig
I know in NJ in a case like this, the Sheriffs Officers very slyly get behind the defendant “just in case” Sometimes it comes under the heading “Good Move”
Sometimes the victims family go on the offensive, but that’s usually at sentencing. That’s always a good time and make good U Tube videos.
From the desk of racerrodig
I also loathe them to no end. To terrify a kid, then claim his yells for help, his final words and shoot him anyway is beyond all comprehension.
@Xena, when the POS rolled into Jacksonville as you say, did he actually think he was going to talk Angie Corey to try and lie his way out of being charged and arrested for murdering this child? what a damn stupid ass POS he really is.
The funny part about it is that, he walked himself right into an arrest for second degree murder, LMAO! now to the part about him clamoring for his wife to get his laptop, was he having two heart attacks and a funny spell, to get his laptop, to do some deleting of some damaging emails sent to him from maybe Larry and Moe? boy I tell you, when and if they read a verdict of “GUILTY” for this fool, he is going to crap his pants, right then and there.
Maybe Renee Stutzman will be more than happy to clean his fat ass up.
@ladystclaire
Well, Papa Zim had already asked the investigators to make it all go away. GZ apparently thought that he had more influence.
Funny thing is that during his cross-examination of Gilbreath, at GZ’s bond hearing, BDLR asked if it was true that GZ knew FDLE had monitored him the entire time he was out of town. That was true. So GZ knew he was being watched by FDLE.
What better way to try and circumvent arrest and flee that than to make Corey think that FDLE were the bad guys causing GZ to be afraid?
@Xena, how did the FDLE know where he was, since he was in hiding with his mentor Osterman and, did the old man really think the FDLE would really look the other way on this and, just let this bird brain POS get away with killing a child?
For him to think that he could talk his way out of this, just goes to show just how dumb he is and, the same goes for his father. the thing with his father and his family in general, they know he is guilty and, they also know what he is capable of doing, since he has been in and out of trouble for most of his adult life, as well as what he did to his cousin at such an early age.
For some reason, he IMO was made to leave the Commonwealth of Va. it would be most interesting to find out why he left there at an early age. they knew he had anger management issues and, instead of them getting him the help that he needed, they just shipped their problem to the state of Florida.
They are just as much to blame for what he did as he is.
@ladystclaire
Just goes to show — people can be tracked and found through many means, such as license plates, phones, use of debit and/or credit cards.
Of course, without any investigation and solely based on him saying it was GZ screaming for help. Papa Zim has been active in GZ’s excuses/defense, limited to 2 things — the yells for help and his boo-boos. Just wait until trial when prosecutors present evidence refuting GZ’s lies.
This B*****D deserves to spend the rest of his life behind bars. if his parents had got him the kind of help that he needed and, they knew his had issues with anger, maybe they wouldn’t feel that they have to lie for him and his anger issues, that led him to murder an innocent kid.
They IMO feel the guilt of what he has done, knowing that he was very capable of doing what he did, when he killed Trayvon. even though they are lying for him, they are just as guilty as he is and, they know it. instead of them just allowing him to be held accountable for what he’s done, they are taking to the media as well as blog sites to take part in smearing this child’s name as well as those he left behind.
Are they so ignorant that, they think people don’t know how they are taking part in smearing and slandering this kid and his family, on several blog sites? on HP ZSr. is LJP as well as some other names that he uses. then Fogen himself is believed to be darkskiesrbest, and he has several other alias’s on HP. they should all be ashamed of themselves, for taking part in these sites.
@Xena, I can’t wait until all of his dirty laundry form that night, is hung out to dry. those who support the POS know just as well as we do, that he is guilty as charged yet they want to see him get away with what he did.
Maybe next time he will kill one of their family members and, IMO that will be a good thing.
@ladystclaire
I have a different perspective. Zidiots do not support GZ, the person. He is nothing more to them than an empty mouse trap. They continue trying to put bait on it, while catching nothing. Their stated purpose, whether through dog whistles or directly, is to provoke racial warfare; promote their conspiracy of a BGI, and eliminate racial equality from America.
Why do you think they have good things to say about Junior, while leaving GZ completely out of the conversation? Because Junior’s diatribes are about race and the “liberal” media. Why the liberal media? Not because of what they reported about the case, but because of who reported it; i.e., Black men who have their own television and/or radio programs and/or are well known in journalism.
They could care less about GZ’s case, whether he is acquitted or sent to prison for the rest of his life. They are using GZ’s case to wage warfare against attorney Crump and Trayvon’s parents. Sadly, they have led O’Mara down their path for more than a year, and he has made it clear that he is not ready for trial.
@ladystclaire
You mean, from behind prison walls, right?
from the desk of jo
in regards to “from the desk of Robert Zimmerman”
I think i just found a photo of said desk –
apparently he’s not a fan of color
@Jo –
re:apparently he’s not a fan of color
Hey, Jo, thanks — for RZJr, it’s “whites only.”
haha yeah i couldn’t resist
haha just saw this, thought it was funny
http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3ofrre/
Empty suit … empty desk …
Empty head and empty heart too.
From the desk of racerrodig
A hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha !!
Pricele$$, just Pricele$$ You got it !! just shades of white.
I wish there was some way that just for one day we could all have that for our avatar or whatever you call that icon thing and the only way we would know each other would be “from the desk of xxxx” OMG, that would be so funny for one of “them” to wander over here and see that.
From the desk of racerrodig
I’m not that computer savvy but maybe I can figure it out. if I do, I’ll post how to do it.
from the desk of fauxmccoy
go to gravatar.com and upload a photo of the desk of your choice and choose it as your primary ‘avatar’. i can see mine is working now. this is not mine, sadly, i cannot afford the exquisite furniture designed by antoni gaudi, as much as i would like to.
Well check mine out……..I made a sign up, took a photo, put the photo in my computer and assigned it as my Gravatar…Ain’t that the bees knees……Personalized Service.
looks awesome, racer!
Good idea. I’m going to take a nap, then clean off my desk and make it look all pretty for y’all.
From the desk of racerrodig
I just made my avatar a picture of my desk. Yessiree…I got one over on Robbie the Racist and Mami now.
*tears*
😦
From the desk of racerrodig
Note to LLMPapa :
You are the best…….another work of art.
FROM THE DESK OF LLMPAPA
LOL
FROM THE DESK OF RACHAEL S
TO: LLMPapa
We all are so proud of him. Such a fine American, you know.
Thanks. That was a good one. BTW, I like your big desk 😉 LOL
TO: The Desk of LLMPapa
FROM: The Mount Olympus Office of Xena
ROFLMAO!
Serino: ‘What’s your highest level of education?’
Fogen: “Associates”
and a few minutes later, “Continuing for my bachelors”.
Doesn’t he know it’s not nice to dress up and pretend to family and friends? And really really not nice to LIE to Detective Serino?
Papa, what WELL DESERVED stinging rebuke for a RIDICULOUS WOMAN!
FROM THE TEETER-TOTTER OF T.O.’S BACKYARD SWING:
Does the Great Pretender’s momma plan to show her face at trial? Or will this poor excuse for a mother shroud herself in burka?
Would love to see this woman’s Florida Driver license photo …
From the desk of Tzar
That was fanastic
ha ha ha
*fantastic
LLMPapa, is this a photograph that was taken at the party Sandra Osterman threw for Fogen for his alleged graduation?
Wow. Where did you get it?
Could be the actual graduation. It’s my understanding that he was allowed to walk in the ceremony even though he hadn’t quite finished the credits and then was denied the degree when the case broke.
From the desk of racerrodig
If it is, nothing like enabling a mental midget even further.
I got it from the vid of Momma Z on Piers Morgan.
From the desk of Operacarla
LMMPapa….you are so important to The Justice for Trayvon team
so in other words…someone else did something wrong and that means Trayvon deserved to be shot too.
Can’t wait for them to delve in to GZ’s past indiscretions in all fairness, since they’re in pursuit of the truth and all that..
FROM THE DESK OF RACHAEL S
To: The Desk of Jo
Ha!!! They already know quite a bit about GZ’s past “indiscretions” (crimes – be honest now). They aren’t interested in fairness or truth.
But as far as “someone else did something wrong and that means Trayvon deserved to be shot too,” that’s what they do over there. Every day. Same old thing. They post stories of black male youth who have committed a crime and bitch about the “problem” of black people and somehow tie all these crimes all into Trayvon, as if he, even though dead, is responsible.
Now their Butt-in-a-Box leader, has committed more criminal activity than anyone I’m personally acquainted with, but you don’t see them posting any kind of crimes associated or done by white male youth, complaining about violence in general. It is all blacks, all blacks’ fault, Trayvon was black, therefore, it is all his fault. That seems to be their thinking.
From the desk of LadyStClaire, @Rachael, I am sick and tired of these racist bigoted *HEATHENS* who can only see crimes that are committed by AA in this country. the IMBECILES turn a blind eye to all of these *MASS* SCHOOL SHOOTINGS, committed by none other than, *WHITE* males for high school to college age, their race of young *WHITE* males have been the ones to shoot up schools that are full of young people.
There was even a case, where a young white female, was given a gun as a Christmas gift which she used to pick off school age kids, from her very own bedroom window. how many AA do you know, who gives a gun to a child as a Christmas gift? I don’t know of any. it’s time for these KKK members to start taking a look at the crimes committed by their own race and, stop making it look as though their own people are free of any kind of criminal activity at all. BTW, they commit more murders than these *POINTY HEADS* are willing to admit because, they are too damn busy point the finger at AA or those of Hispanic descent.
Just tune in to the ID channel and, you will see just how many murders on those shows are committed by whites. I’m not trying to make white people look like murdering thugs, I’m just trying to be fair and balanced about what these tree people are putting out and on mainly AA. I know very well, that AA commit crimes just like people in every race known to man but, they are not the only ones who commit murder. I’m just sick of this shit out of people like those who wear pointy hats to fit their pointy heads. they need to sweep around their own damn back door, before messing with someone else’s.
BTW, please overlook my typos in the above comment but, I’m really pissed that these people can only see the crimes that AA commit and, never what their own race commit. IMO two of the biggest and most shameful murders committed by them were the murders of Emmett Till and George Stinney.
The state of S.C. executed a 14 year old child in 1944, for a crime he did not commit. he died for a crime committed by a white kid from a well to do family. Emmett Till also aged 14 was murdered by two white men in Money Mississippi in 1955 because, he was accused of whistling at a white woman, who was the wife of one of his murderers. I can go on and on but, they know their murdering history just as well as I do. I’m not directing this to all white people no, not at all. I’ve just had enough of the tree people and their rude comments about AA and how they commit all of the crimes in this country according to them.
From the Desk of Two Sides.
They need to check out all the crime of white hispanic black peruvians in Los Angeles. Or all the white crime in say, Salt Lake City!
FROM THE DESK OF RACHAEL S
To: ladystclaire
When one goes over there and sees their stories and comments and the totally humanly disgraceful comments at the so-called news outlets, I wouldn’t blame you one single bit if your comments were directed at all white people. Those people are so sick and disgusting they have made me feel filthy and totally ashamed of being white. I want so badly to apologize for their behavior. I so hope that is not how white people look to people of color. I can only hope it is realized they are not “white people,” they are – as you say, “tree people,” but honestly, I’m not sure anymore. I had no idea there could be such horrible cruel and disgusting individuals. Anyway, I am so sorry that it is being done by people who look like me.
@Rachael, You are a good person and, you have a heart to match who you are. there are also other whites on this site and on others who are also good people as well, and they also know how this *LIAR* murdered this child Trayvon Martin in cold blood and, they all are expressing their what they really feel about what he did to an AA child. but, those *HEATHENS* and there are many more like them in this country, who need to stop with the lies about AA commit most of the crimes in this country.
AA have been accused of committing crimes that, they didn’t even commit and, there are quite a few of them. Susan Smith lied about a black man taking her two kids as well as her car. Chuck Stuart shot and killed his pregnant wife and unborn child and blamed it on a black man. there are others but, I’m not going to list them all here. this is the kind of BS that confront a people who never asked to come here to this country.
These people really need to just take the time to reflect on some of the BS that they are putting out there, about people who haven’t done a thing to them, yet they express their hatred for them in more ways than you or I could ever imagine. You are not responsible for their warped since of entitlement so, please don’t feel bad about being of the same race as they are because, like I said you are a good person/woman and, I like you very very much. this is exactly how I feel about everyone here on this site and on others, who are supporting Trayvon, Jordan and their families. this is after all suppose to be one nation under GOD right.
I may have to stop following this case. It is literally making me sick. The hatred for a murder victim is unheard of. they are not asking why this 208lb man couldn’t handle a 158lb teenager without killing him. they are not asking why didn’t he let trayvon go after he started screaming. They are not asking why did he pursue Trayvon. they are not asking why if Trayvon beat him like he claims. Where is the bruising?where are the black eyes? They are not asking,how did he get his gun? It was on his right rear hip. It would have been impossible for him to grab it like he claims. they ignore the evidence which show he had trayvon restrained when he was killed. They gloss over his own records of violence while making up stuff about Trayvon. Trayvon was innocent he was an average teenager who got in trouble sometimes, nothing serious no violence involved just the minor nonsense teenagers get it trouble for. I usually don’t there,but i get the feeling if Trayvon was a white kid and Zimmerpunk was black. the silly stuff Trayvon got in trouble for wouldn’t even be mentioned and those same zimmerpunk supporters would be crying for zimmerpunjks head on a platter.but because Trayvon was a black kid. Writing on a locker makes him a thug. Cutting classes makes him a troubled kid. smoking weed makes him drug crazed. Smoking weed makes you sluggish and hungry not violent. unlike alcohol. All he had to do was wait for the police. He should have left Trayvon alone.
FROM THE DESK OF RACHAEL S
I know. Look at this: “I am still a bit mystified where this is going. By Part #9 will we finally learn something juicy and new about naughty things TM did at school ?”
That’s all they want.
They are just bullies.
From the Desk of Two Sides:
Part 9? 9 Parts? You’re ishin’ me, right?
Oh, I think they are just upset over there. They were wanting something dirty on Trayvon, not something about police corruption. But I see they are up to 5 now. LOL – here is the “plan:”
We have decided the best way to absorb the massive amount of information in the FOIA release is to break it down into intellectually digestible bite sized morsels.
Each day we will introduce to you “a new perspective”, more information about the now apparent intentional manipulation within the former M-DSPD objectives; and more information about Trayvon Martin’s interactions with them.
The storyline carries itself against the backdrop of the George Zimmerman case because it outlines the Trayvon story that was, until today, hidden from view.
There will be a few updates throughout the process each day as we present the discoveries from the words of the participants – via their sworn statements and affidavits. At the end of each segment we will drop the FOIA release as it pertains to the evidence.
From the Desk of Two Sides: LOL. Translation – We got two reams of paper to yap about in several installments, but like Rachael says over at FL, it’s not about Trayvon.”
FROM THE DESK OF RACHAEL S
I don’t know what they’re bitching about over there at the refuse outhouse. Aside from they don’t know what they are talking about, they have a lot of nerve upset about closed cases when their “hero” walked away from assaulting a police officer with a diversion that HAD TO BE EXTENDED because of inadequate participation as well as his other crimes that mysteriously were closed. And he was allowed to buy a gun for Christ’s sake!!! Not only that, any one else who would have pulled the bail stunt he did would NOT be out right now, so I wish they would stop their baby whining, put on their big boy pants and stop worshiping their Butt in a Box (love it Xena), who should have been put away a long time ago.
There was something else I was going to say but I’ve lost my train of thought.
Attorney Crump opposition to the MOM motion
Click to access motion-to-determine-conf-of-court-records-in-opp-to-def-motion-to-unseal.pdf
Sorry for the double post. 😦
A 200lb man armed with a 9mm weapon loaded with hollow point bullets,has no reason to scream for help.
I absolutely agree!
haha….this response to an OS article on O’Mara’s timely begging for more cash made me smile….very short, sweet and accurate………….
“Now the mother’s entertaining letter on yesterday makes sense. She could have saved a lot of time by just holding out the tin can. Gotta love this klan”
Maybe O’Mara sould ask Osterman for the proceeds from his book, after all he is the best friend of George Zimmerman, and said he would die for him. One ringy dingy, two ringy dingy….What no answer……Haven’t hear much from his black friend, nor Taffee lately. I guess the 3 stooges are keeping a low profile.
So, like everyone else, gz will be filing his annual income tax form on Monday. hmm
From the TV tray of Lynn
I wonder if GZ will be filing a w-2 from his work? Yes, you heard me right. WORK!
I’m reading the Ch 13 interview http://tinyurl.com/c6os4v6 with JR and can’t believe what I’m seeing.
The question is, “Do you get to talk to him?”
BUSY SCHEDULES???
MAKES IT TO WORK???
WTF???
haha so he’s getting paid for this i assume. they are just despicable aren’t they
FROM THE DESK OF RACHAEL S
I think he means GZ’s busy schedule is getting to all his psych appointments – and meals (although I’m a fine one to talk about either one – but I haven’t killed anyone lately).
yeah, maybe that’s the motive, tray wouldn’t hand over his skittles.
ROFLMAO — For MOM & West that must be one of the biggest nightmares of all — Fogen’s “participation” in his defense, as if this numbnutz is capable of putting together a coherent sentence in a brief. I wouldn’t trust him to proofread my grocery list.
Answer questions at trial??!!??!! That means O’Mara is coaching him to testify. We’re going to see Butt get in the box!
Hallelujah! Sock it to ya!
@Xena,
Butt in the Box! Butt in the Box!
We’re going to see Butt in the Box!
The guy with the brain like a bag full of rocks
Is going to tell all when he gets in The Box
Butt in the Box! Butt in the Box!
Shouldn’t O’Mara stuff his mouth full of sox?
But he found it so full of bagels and lox
There was no way in hell to silence this Pox.
Butt in the Box! Butt in the Box!
Thinks he’s smarter than even your wiliest fox.
He’ll learn there’s no safety midst jailhouse jocks,
When justice slaps Fogen in that Big Barred Box.
LOL@PiranhaMom. Just watched LLMPapa’s video again about GZ getting in the box. 🙂
PiranhaMom, you’re having way too much fun LOL
From the desk of racerrodig
Please be advised that you can never have to much fun.
Ooooh, yeah!
New interview with Gladys Z where she tells how gz is working on his defense:
Click>http://tinyurl.com/c6os4v6
Why in the hell are all of these media people having these jack ass’s on their shows or their TV news stations, spewing more of their convoluted “LIES” I mean what this family is doing is not news and, these people should be ashamed of themselves for having them on their media outlet “LYING.”
George Zimmerman killed a child in cold blood and, here we have his family going around to every TV news venue as well as some talk shows, trying to gain sympathy, taint a jury pool and most of all solicit money from those who are dumb enough to give them money.
I don’t know but, if judge Nelson had granted the prosecution’s motion for a gag order to be put in place for this case, would it have muzzled the family of this murderer? something needs to be done to stop them from their relentless efforts, of doing all they can to sway the jury for this upcoming trial. the thing with that, is they are doing it with MOM blessings. this man would have the common sense people of this country, to believe that he was upset about the *VILLAGE IDIOT’S* last twitter rant, when know damn well he wasn’t. he more than likely had him do it.
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK of Cielo62~ This is all just pure BS. That entire article made me want to hurl chunks. And the little poll just reinforces my belief that there are WAY too many stupid, blind and hate-filled people in the world today.
From the desk of racerrodig
Oh I can see that letter to the IRS…….
Dear Mr. Taxman, my wife and I can’t file on time because we’re really busy and we didn’t make any money this year because my mom told me to tell you the justice system failed us. Can we skip this year. Oh and can you send us a $125,000.00 refund so I can keep up my security.
Cheorge Zippyhead
To the desk of racerrodig
From the desk of Soulcatcher
My desk is just like yours. It came from the lumber yard my parents owned from 1955. And guess what, I have the key. My laptop sits right on top of the pull out, and I have a four drawer metal file cabinet next to the desk. I keep mine in the garage, next to a 50 inch projection tv. If fogen does file taxes, I’ll bet he adds the renters credit. I can hear him now, Well I was a renter, just cause I didn’t pay, doesn’t mean nuttin. I used my truck to stalk them fu***** coons, I mean punks around, so I can claim mileage too. I used my cell phone to call NEN on those blacks up to no good, so I can write that off to, and the mileage to the dr’s when that black kid nearly killed me.
From the desk of racerrodig
I can’t imagine his write off list, but you named some of them. He’ll probably add “9 MM Ammunition” as a business expense and depreciate his little pistol as “being used” Just a few minutes alone with him………he’ll find out what a mature person can do in defense.
He’ll need more than knuckle bandages I can guarantee that.
Call me dence but when you run a blog site dedicated to right wing raceist bigots an constantly claim to have the inside scoop.
Doesnt the facts you write as gospell impact the credibilty of not only your loyal reader.
But your critics as well .
A week or so your wrote an open letter to D West begging him to take over the reigns in the defence of the accussed CHILD MURDERER.
You said he was the defendants only hope as M O M is an Idiot or words to that effect.Week later you stated as Fact that M O M Advised the retreat at twin lakes H O A to accept the near two two million settlement an settle with the Martyns.
Now we know M O M is still finagling to depose Ben Crump an also wants the details of the settlement made public.
Doubtfull he would neeeed to do this or even want to do this if he were in fact privvy to an an adviser to said finacial settlement.
So Sudance when can we expect the dissclaiimer an apoligy you owe M O M for wrongly an falcely an malicioucly claiming all thease blatant lies about your man foggagges attorney?
first rule of the outhouse:
mr cracker is never wrong
(gag … this is difficult to type, even from my desk)
My response to a nut job in reference what was posted on the conservative tree house…. So I am George Zimmerman. You and the conservative tree house,are making a big to do,because Trayvon may have been caught with a weed pipe more than once. Teenagers have been smoking weed for decades. And most go on to become productive people and raise families. Smoking weed doesn’t mean you deserve to be murdered. And it doesn’t make you a thug,which is what you and those other nut jobs are trying to imply. Teenagers smoked weed when i was in school. My nephews smoked weed,which i wasn’t happy about,and they were never thugs. Smoking weed is no worse than drinking alcohol. If it was up to me alcohol would be illegal. Sundance cracker himself might have smoked weed when he was in school. Hardly relevant to being murdered. That jewelery story has been beaten to death. It was never reported stolen and was returned to it’s owner. Trayvon has never been accused or charged with a crime. And he has no violent history. You are saying Trayvon deserved a bullet in his chest because he may have been caught with weed or a weed pipe multiple times. If the worse thing Trayvon ever did was smoke weed a few times i really don’t have a problem with it.The only person he hurt was himself.Including his health because smoking weed can damage the lungs just like cigarettes. And he got in trouble with his parents. Your continued efforts to justify the murder of an unarmed teenager shows how disgusting and contemptible you and others really are. Trayvon never hurt anyone. Whether he smoked weed a few times is irrelevant. Zimmerman on the other hand. Has a long history of hurting people,bullying people,harassing people. Trayvon has no such history. Trayvon was a good kid who made the usual mistakes most teenagers make. What did you do when you were a teenager?
From the desk of racerrodig
Well said……very well said. I’m glad you covered the alleged stolen jewelry lie. I have challenged at least 100 Zidiots to answer why there was never a police report, no stole jewelry reported and so on….oh and burglary tools……what, did Trayvon speed off on his bike ??
Not 1 Zidiot elected to even answer me…..not 1 !!
Foolish Zidiots and their preposterous crap.
From The Desk of Jun
The police even investigated the jewelry and discovered that IT WAS NOT STOLEN and Trayvon kept the jewelry and his story that it belonged to a friend, frankly, CHECKED OUT
So are we supposed to believe professional investigators with years of training in detective work and forensics, or do we believe the Conservative Tinfoil Hat?
It’s funny how Trayvon had a screwdriver not used in any crimes and jewelry that was not gotten by any illegal means trumps Fogen’s history, especially since he is proven to have scammed the court and the public for money
The marijuana thing is child’s play and even George Washington smoked weed
In fact George Washington grew marijuana
Their argument against scientific facts of marijuana or evidence of marijuana usage are all ridiculous
From the desk of racerrodig
“So are we supposed to believe professional investigators with years of training in detective work and forensics, or do we believe the Conservative Tinfoil Hat?”
That’s a tough choice……let me flip a coin. Heads I win, tails you lose kinda thing on that one.
From the desk of Lonnie Star:
I’m confused, how is it that Fogen claims to have seen the kid walk at about 30 mph, and still he doesn’t think the kid looks like an athlete, or like he hurrying to get out of the rain? The kid completes, what should have been a one minute and twenty second walk in about 20 seconds, catching up with Fogen 5 seconds after he parks at the clubhouse on a 15 second drive. Help me here, is it at all a possibility that Fogen is telling a lie??? Heaven forfend.
From the desk of racerrodig
Lonnie lets analyze this a minute………………………………….
Okay, done. I can say with 100% certainty…..FogenPhoole lied then, is lying now and will continue to lie.
The time line has so many real radical problems I could die of laughter thinking about how he’ll hold up under direct…..and cross.
From the Desk of Lonnie Starr:
Poor Phoggenphoole, his lawyers haven’t explained to him that jurors are likely to hold lying against him. Oh well.
As far as the case goes, MOM knows that GZ can’t stand up under the gentlest of friendly direct examinations, forget about cross. Hannity tossed him a friendly softball, and Phoggenphoole turned a great positive opportunity, into a damning, irrationally catastrophic display of aggravated stupidity. Yet, despite this horrid performance, the man still has supporters, go figure. Watch the man the racists are placing their bets on, in action HERE
So, we’re not as surprised as we should be when, some racist takes blown up pictures of an innocent child, killed by a racist under color of protecting the neighborhood, out to the shooting range. Hey, for any racist who happen to be reading, would you consider it alright to take pictures of the Sandy Hook victims out to the shooting range? If not, then this is the same thing. This stupid racist Sgt, might just as well have been taking pictures of Columbine victims out to the shooting range, no difference.
From the desk of racerrodig
“Zimmerman’s Aggravated Catastrophic Stupidity!!! ”
I saw that some time ago and still marvel at how stupid FogenPhoole is. Maybe when his Butt is in the Box he should just flip a coin for answers. Or use a “Magic 8 Ball” It certainly would be just as accurate.
MOM has got to be losing serious sleep over the very thought of having to put GZ on the witness stand. But if he doesn’t he has no case! But if he does he has no case! All he can do is let GZ take the stand and aggravate the jury to no end.
The Foreman may say:
“Your honor, we jurors have to confess, when we finagled our way onto the jury we were died-in-the-wool racists seeking to further the cause of white supremacy. But this, this… what-ever-you-want-to-call-it, has made us all so terribly angry, having tried to play us for incredibly stupid and ignorant fools above and beyond the call, that we have found ourselves unable to acquit him. So. even as much as we hate to find him guilty of harming a black kid, his abject, catastrophic stupidity has aggravated us so badly we cannot possibly let him go free, because if he is a racist he’s forced us to bailout on racism because we don’t want to be like him. We therefore find him guilty as charged with any special circumstance that will allow this court to put him away for so long he will never be seen or heard from again.”
[ Crash… there’s a crash and a scramble at the council table, guards rushing in, lawyers dashing away] Judge: Sentencing July 24th, bail is revoked the defendant is remanded, court is adjourned.
From the desk of racerrodig
Don’t ya just hate when reality sets in……Must suck to be FogenPhoole.
That would be a hoot if a few racists sneak onto the jury and realize just how ugly this can be.
Way back when the story first broke about the jewelry I noted that the police never bothered to put a value on the jewelry. As everyone here knows there are two categories of jewelry, real and costume! The costume or “fashion” jewelry is worth next to nothing. I don’t care how much you paid for that polished buffalo horn necklace, once it leaves the store it’s worth diddly squat! Had the jewelry been real, the police would have sought an appraisal. They never bothered because they knew the jewelry was worthless.
Back in 2012 gold was about 1700/ounce. Dreamicis had a 300 dollar necklace that Burgess stole. That’s like a fifth of an ounce or approx. 6 grams of gold. Don’t tell me that Trayvon had jewelry that appeared to be about and ounce or so of either yellow or white gold and the police didn’t bother to check out what would have been nearly 2 thousand dollars or more of jewelry, it just doesn’t make sense.
What does make sense is that the police were trying to sweat Trayvon, by making it appear that they had something serious on their hands and that they were going to be able to do all kinds of things because of it. They’d have threatened him with a trip to GITMO if they could.
From the desk of Tzar
This from the desk sh*t is hilarious, I am fully on board!
from the laptop desk on the lap of fauxmccoy
to tzar’s desk whose owner says
oh! i am so glad that you have a desk now, too!. it is proper and fitting that as students of professor leatherman that we have proper desks and all. 🙂
From the desk of racerrodig
Note to Tzar :
It’s fun, you’ll love it. It’s that poke in the eye to Robbie the Racist and clan we all wish we could literally do for the racist self serving lies they spew.
From the desk of Tzar
Heh heh
that rhymes LOL
From the desk of racerrodig
I see we all had a great time today……hmmmmmm, what’s his name wasn’t really here, Coincidence……I think not.
“I see we all had a great time today…”
Yeah, there something refreshing about, for a change, not having people lie about what you actually said.
Of course I’m sure it won’t last.
unitron
@racer, if a Trayvon having a screw driver in his book bag is a tool used exclusively for breaking and entering, I would say that *EVERY* household in America, is guilty of owning such a tool just for that purpose. how much more ignorant can these KKKlan members get? they have done nothing but smear and slander this kid and, his family from day one and, it’s not fair or right for anybody to do what these A’holes have been doing for the past year.
Who ever this Sundance MF is, he and his cohorts will have a day of reckoning coming and, it won’t be pretty either.
FROM: The Mount Olympus Office of Xena
I used to keep a screw driver in my purse. It was when I drove a 1971 Toyota — had to jam the screw driver into the choke — then it hummed like a baby. 🙂
From the desk of racerrodig
ladystclaire :
With that thought in mind, please call the police on me as being in the line of work I’m in and have at least 100 screwdrivers, I believe I may be a potential criminal. It’s raining right now and I believe I feel a bit suspicious.
I know it may sound illogical, but according to The Zidiot Nation Charter, we have no choice.
@LadyStClaire
I carry a screw driver in my truck every day and probably so does these ignorant racist clowns. But they just have to smear this kid b/c they cannot find anything on him. Zimmerman and his supporters were soo counting on Trayvon Martin to be a thug. So now both Zimmerman and his kkk pals have to try endlessly to paint this precious child as an attacker, drug user and criminal. To find out he was an honor student with a bright future, a child loved by his parents, a child whom his teachers stated was always cheerful rocked their world. How dare he NOT be a thug! But yet they donate money to the real lying worthless THUG who has no conscience, no respect for human life and no respect for the law.
From the Desk of Two Sides:
I carry one of those bitsy screwdrivers around for glasses. Oh, actually, I have a slightly larger one I carry around in my laptop bag in case I need to do surgery on it. Great tools.
@Racer, Xena and SG2, you guys are what this country should be all about and, not the refuse that exist at the doghouse. we need more people like everyone here at this blog site and, the many others who are all about seeing justice be done for Trayvon and his family.
Those who want to see Fogen get away with murdering an AA child, are just tearing this country down instead of helping to build it up and, make it an even better place to live. they would only be happy, if they could deport every race of people except their own. I’ve got news for them, that’s not going to happen. they don’t own this country and, they never will.
Every one of you guys are the greatest and, I thank GOD for you all and your support for Trayvon and his family. I say this from the bottom of my heart and, that’s no joke. this is what I really feel for you all here at Professor Leatherman’s site and, this is for them as well. there aren’t many places where bigots haven’t infiltrated to make having a civil discussion about this case impossible.
From the desk of racerrodig
I’m humbled that you mentioned my name !!~ To the hunt I say…..and slap those silly Zidiots as they deserve.
I think I’d be alittle bit more concerned with the drugs Fogen was on when he murdered trayvon
OT, but if the site is slow to load, it might be the server getting hammered.
That story is here
http://it.slashdot.org/story/13/04/12/1940248/wordpress-sites-under-wide-scale-brute-force-attack
with links to the other sites cited.
unitron
@Uni –
If I open that link, will I get hacked?
I’ve been reading and posting at slashdot since 1998 with no ill effects except wondering where my spare time disappeared to.
: – )
unitron
@Uni,
Amigo, we suffer from the same OCD.
“Amigo, we suffer from the same OCD.”
Obsessively-online computer disorder?
unitron
Good catch PiranhaMom! As soon as IC that pic my thought “Ah here we go with this shyte”.
I said it once and will say it again:
Interesting. A site I work with has been getting a huge spam attack.
At any rate, I went to the GZLC site and then to the doc and didn’t have any problem.
I’m referrring to the PDF Crump reply linked at GZLC.
So Sundance Cracker is revealing his big bombshell. Professor, Xena, Searching Mind and other legal sharpies – need your input. Should be interesting to see if OM suddenly makes some motion or another based on this. It’s looks to me as if this isn’t really anything new – I recall an article a few months back over there ranting about the Miami Dade schools.
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/04/12/part-2-the-trayvon-martin-cover-up-hurley-blows-a-gasket/#comments
i have attempted to read on that site 5 or 6 times now and cant make it past 5 comments before i simply cant read another word…….the IGNORANCE there is astonishing, but even worse, much of it isnt ignorance it is stupidity.
for communications clarity i dont see anything negative in the word “ignorant” because it simply means a person hasnt been made aware of something yet, they know nothing about the given thing, and i KNOW that ALL humans are ignorant, just about differing things, none of us comes anywhere near knowing everything.
crossing the line between ignorance and stupidity is when after a person has been informed they reject factual truth.
and many of those posters have i am sure been informed that racism is stupid, and they embrace it with open arms!
They have pretty vivid imaginations over there and spin some interesting stories from their facts.
From the desk of racerrodig
“crossing the line between ignorance and stupidity is when after a person has been informed they reject factual truth.
and many of those posters have i am sure been informed that racism is stupid, and they embrace it with open arms!”
That’s part of “The Zidiot Nation Charter” It’s in print, trust me.
Their prejudices distort everything they see like fair goers in a house of mirrors.
Part 3 http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/04/12/part-3-the-trayvon-martin-cover-up-sergeant-william-tagle-discusses-m-dspd-manipulated-statistics-baker-act-and-intentional-diversion-of-black-male-offenders-to-avoid-criminal-justice/#more-61495
I started reading his “expose” last night when he put it up. Some of the people were very disappointed. They didn’t want to hear about corruption of the MDPD, they only wanted dirt on Trayvon.
Sick, sick people.
From the desk of racerrodig
You’re right….
I’ll fix it right now.
Note to the Zidiot Nation, Google “Relevant to the case” and start all over.
Holy smokes, they’re really puking it up. Part 4 http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/04/12/part-4-the-trayvon-martin-cover-up-sergeant-william-tagle-supporting-documentation-miami-dade-school-police-dept-internal-affairs-investigation-trayvon-martin-foia-11/
From the desk of racerrodig
Note to the Zidiot Nation : Get a Grip !!!
LOL, Racer. Okay class, repeat after me. A is for apple, . . . . C is for credibility . . . R is for relevance . . .
Oh, oh, oh! Z is for defendant . . .
From the desk of racerrodig
“Oh, oh, oh! Z is for defendant . . .”
Is, is for……whats the difference !!
@Two sides
….Not unless it was a CLONE of George Zimmerman? The fools are off the chain crazy. I am seeing first hand how racist hate can drive people right off the freaking edge.
To the Desk of Southern Girl
From the Desk of Two Sides:
Yup, those chains fell off a looong time ago.
from the desk of faux mccoy
they must be serving ice water in hell today, because i did take a glance at the nuthouse. this treasure-trove they think they have is hysterical. they honestly think this will tie together all the pieces…. insane. what a group — working on mysteries without any clues.
but wait … they have 1000 more pages of this BS to get through and they really think they are onto something.
From the Desk of Lonnie Starr:
Yes, they are onto something… One word: Bowels!!!
We must never forget Jasper Texas!
also dont forget tulia texas a very small(around 200 pop.) very poor town where a crooked white sheriff’s deputy got over 50 people put in prison for drug dealing…it later came out the deputy had planted all the “evidence” and had been let go from a previous police job for doing the same thing.
@Two sides. IMO, Sundance’s “bombshell” is a dud.
The attorney for FDLE stated in open court that there is nothing in Trayvon’s school records that is admissible at trial. Why is there nothing in Trayvon’s school records that is admissible at trial? Because nothing in them provides that Trayvon had a propensity towards violence.
What Sundance confuses and misrepresents, is that school records are police records. Juvenile records are sealed by Florida law. No one has to request that they be sealed — they are by law. Only members of LE can see them and there is some verbiage that is done by order of the court.
IOWs, if Sundance believes that he has Trayvon’s juvenile records and is publicly posting them, then he is in violation of the law. Best to present them for what they are — school records.
Nothing he posted proves that GZ killed Trayvon in self-defense. That is the issue at trial, and GZ is the defendant — not Trayvon. Whenever we read the mindset of White Supremacists who think they can make victims the accused, keep in mind who is really on trial, and what they have to prove if they want to be acquitted.
Thank you Xena. It looked like a dud to me too except that all the paper waving was a bit confusing.
I also notice Sundance promotes many facts that are essentially known to no one at this time: who cast the first blow, if any, what exactly happened that night outside of Fogen putting a bullet through Trayvon’s heart. He essentally repeats Fogen’s story like gospel truth and as we know, there are some truck-sized holes in it.
@Two sides. If not but for the fact that GZ got out of his vehicle to, and did, follow the unarmed 17 year old kid, the two would not have come into physical contact. That means that GZ is the aggressor. He knows it too which is why he lied about getting out of his vehicle and following Trayvon.
As Lonnie says; TICK, TOCK.
From the desk of racerrodig
Xena :
Can you tell me who the defendant is again, it seems those pesky Zidiots can’t tell the differance and you do have a way with words.
TO: The Desk of Racerrodig
FROM: The Mount Olympian Office of Xena
Your request is appreciated. GZ, aka Thugboat, aka Fogen, aka Butt in a Box, is officially charged by the State of Florida by his birth name George Michael Zimmerman. Having been charged with the felony of Murder in the Second Degree, he is the defendant. His trial is scheduled to begin on June 10, 2013.
From the desk of racerrodig
Xena :
So it’s not I who is “Dazed and Confused”
Thank you for the clarification.
Note to Team Trayvon : Didn’t we have a great time here today without “…you know who….” ruining the conversation.
@Xena and Racer, he is also known by some mainly by yours truly (me) as, Buffalo Butt.
@Xena, isn’t this *GRAND DRAGON* SD in enough hock for his part of doxing innocent people in his effort to get to the real DD? are they going to get away with their BS? they also put out info about W9 and her family, including where her little daughter went to school.
Now, these people were inviting a possible kidnapping of this woman’s child. these people (if you can call them that), were breaking the law in every sense of the word and, they should not be allowed to get away with what they did to this woman and her family.
The nuthouse has obtained documents of of an investigation as to why trayvon’s suspensions were leaked and documents detail an investigation of the police was lying to make the crime rate at certain schools including the school trayvon went to less than they really were. in a renewed effort to justify his death. they even mention issues we already know about. they are implying the only reason Trayvon wasn’t charged in the jewelery incident is because the police was supposedly ordered not to look into it. And as usual they fail to explain the relevance.
@Kelly.
I wear glasses. Trayvon wore glasses. The right lens falls out of my (relatively new) glasses probably every week. I fix them. I use a tiny screwdriver with a Phillips head on one end and chisel head on the other.
Trayvon, by his history, was a lot more mechanically inclined than I am. My guess is he was well able to repair his own glasses, too.
I frequently carry a jeweler’s loupe. That doesn’t mean I plan to heist some diamonds. I just see details better, where needed.
Like those tiny jewelry screws on my glasses.
Those idiots ought to start concentrating on significant details of the evidence. Has a single one of them ever explained how Zimmerman could extricate his gun, squashed between his 207lb ass and the grass, and get it into position to shoot Trayvon horizontally through the heart?
Let me know if you hear it.
Thanks, Kelly!
The guy is a certified tinfoil hat expert LOL
I read it, and there’s no evidence of a cover up
He sounds like those dipshits that claim aliens are taking over Los Angeles or other nonsense
There’s no evidence of anything being hidden and all that was stated was that the records, if there are any, are confidential to outside parties
So, he has nothing, yet again, and just spinning conspiracy theories, as if anyone would waste time plotting against Fogen
Funny how that crackhead idiot has nothing to say, since he has seen Fogen’s records, which were unsealed
I used to kinda like my tinfoil hats, but if SD wears one, it’s not a good fashion statement any longer! 😀
tinfoil hats are soooo 10 minutes ago…..the old fiestaware bowls the real brightly colored ones have lead in their paint, they block the brain control waves far better than even heavy duty tin foil.
The treehouse looks at the world as black and white,they are so raciest they refuse to look at the evidence. It’s sad Omara had to go down the road with these raciest people. He better get all the money he can get from these raciest because he has lost all his black client from this show he is putting on. If you ask me Omara is raciest,he is a closet raciest his true color has be blown.
The old orange Fiesta has/had uranium.
from the laptop desk of fauxmccoy
trained observer says
well naturally, how else should a nice slice of yellow cake be served?
😉
@Ty Flair, I have always thought that O’mara was a racist from the very beginning. if he wasn’t, then why would he align himself with such people? I also think Donald West is racist also. some people are very good, at keeping their racist attitudes from surfacing until something like this happens.
These people don’t have to act in the manner in which they are all because, Fogen is guilty of murdering an AA child. there is no doubt in my mind, that if he had done this to a white kid, they would be the first to seek the dp for Fogen.
I have seen some pretty nasty and cruel things in the comment sections about Trayvon, his family and AA in general, on sites that one wouldn’t expect such to be tolerated. but, it seems that anything goes as far as this case is concerned. these bigots sniff out all of these sites and, they dig their heels in just to make having a discussion about this case almost impossible. the MF racist are every where with their disgusting filth. the inbred trailer trash.
@Two Sides, SD wears a *POINTY* hat for his *POINTY* head and, that’s a fact!
From the Desk of Two Sides:
Now he can put one of Bill’s fiesta bowls over it.
Jun- sorry. Aliens HAVE taken over LA. That’s why it’s such a weird place.
Sent from my iPod
That bomb shell is nothing. It’s just documentation detailing an internal investigation as to why trayvon’s suspensions were released. And another detailing possible coverup of incidents at Miami Dade schools. The info regarding Trayvon is nothing we haven’t already heard about him being caught with a weed pipe a few times the jewelery incident which they say was covered up which is why trayvon was never arrested or charged with stealing. they have contradicted themselves because if it was covered up we would never have heard about it. it was reported over a year ago the jewelery in question was never reported stolen and was eventually returned to its owner.
@kllypyn. None of the Zidiot BS proves that GZ killed Trayvon in self defense. Stay focused. The Zidiot agenda is to divert attention from GZ and evidence that he murdered Trayvon, to race and disparaging everyone and anyone other than GZ and his family.
So are we to understand that MOM filed a brief asking the court to UNSEAL the terms of the HOA settlement? I may have missed something. What would the defense have to gain from that? Exposure of a “no fault” agreement? I need help understanding this.
yes, it’s like a 14 page of boiling bullshit accusing the parents and Ben of coaching DD to incriminate gz all so they could get rich. it’s on his nasty site of course so the zimmerlovers can all trash talk the VICTIMS again.
Is Renee Stutzman doing anything different with the exception of being more subtle with the intent of the reader reaching that conclusion?
did you guys see Ben’s answer to Omar?
Click to access opposition_to_mot_unseal.pdf
@Shannon,
Crump’s strong response clearly states that there are more than one payer of the settlement and that they agreed to keep the terms of the settlement confidential.
So obviously the HOA structure itself (the HOA corporation, whose stakeholders are the individual owners of the 260 condo units) and its members are not paying.
So … plural payers? Two insurance companies: that of the HOA and that of the management company.
Sending a HUGE BRAVO to Crump for his spirited, intelligent and moving response!
@ Piranhamom, yes, it does sound like there’s at least two entities paying.. I would like to know who tho..just out of curiosity since it would be nice if any of the HOA members who sanctioned that idiots behavior were punished somehow.
Ben is sorta a GOD-Like figure in my eyes since these recent vicious personal attacks against him! But this bullshit about Tracy and Sybrina is raunchy and disgustingly lowbrow, I can’t believe it! I suppose all the parents in Colorado need to be treated this way too!!!
and I always said Ben Crump, especially as a civil rights lawyer,can take it, but that family and DD need to be protected so bad. and he’s been on top of it!
he really laid it down nice and simple like, I like that he repeated over and over “gz profiled, pursued and killed Trayvon”!
This is how it works insurers are like bookmakers.
An when bookies receive substancial betts on a horse to win.
So much si if the horse does indeed win.
They would be unable to srvice the financeial losss..
So to isure themselfs against this they take the bet . policy.
An lay that ber of on other boookies so that if the horse wins.
The debt is spread arpound an absorbed by other bookies.
Insurance companys do the same thing on a much higher an more devious form of of loading any future claims against them for policy patouts.
Like the bookies some redistribute the policy amongst four of five different insureresm.
Its like they are insureing themselfs against loseing big settlements wich is fair enough.
But thats the scruplious ones an many are unscruplious an they have all sorts of ways toa avoid parting with money to there clients,
They take your anual payments with glee an avirise.
But tottaly different scenerio when it becomes nessesery for them to settle a claim.
The word shysters springs to mind.
They are even able to sell your policy/transfer it to another company without your aproaval /knowlage…
So when you come to make your claim your informed that you must contact xyan z As they are now holding your policy.
Regulation is non exsistant as far as I can gather.
wow did any of omar’s motions say anything like —
” I hereby certify the forgoing requests have been made in GOOD FAITH and is supported by a sound factual and legal basis pursuant to Florida Rule of Judicial Administration 2.420e “
Doesn’t ring a bell for me…
ummm, wonder id they actually know what good faith means? I mean almost every single thing that comes out of their mouths about the evidence are big fat lies~
From the desk of racerrodig
“… I hereby certify the forgoing requests have been made in GOOD FAITH…..”
O’ Mara could never state that…..it would make him look like a liar and God knows……….he can’t have that now !!
Excuse me Mr Racer! nice desk, at least you HAVE a job! UNLIKE JR!! I tweeted him the other day
Shannon In Miami @miamidecor 11 Apr
@robertzimmermanjr I keep telling you; GET A JOB, then a”desk”! I know its confusing, but the #BEGSITE is 4 the lawyers!
From the desk of racerrodig
Actually, I’m self employed…….I just haven’t been able to work up the nerve to ask for a raise….
It’s an old desk…..but, it’s paid for !!
Imagine Robbie the Racist applying for a job……
@Shannon Hallelujah! Thanks for the link. One of the best parts is where attorney Crump says the 911 tape has been “cleaned up.” I’ve been saying it!! GZ is heard in the background cursing at Trayvon while Trayvon is screaming. O’Mara is playing to Zidiot supporters in effort to ignore the evidence, but the tape as been “cleaned up” and there are expert witnesses to testify regarding it.
Hallelujah! Sock it to ya!
THIS!!!!!!!!!!
OMG yes! you have always said that they cleaned it up! I totally missed that little bombshell!!
and recently I took a half a xanny and listened to it again, but I still cannot hear another voice. but of course I haven’t heard the new *cleaned up* version. i’m so happy!!
FROM THE DESK OF RACHAEL S
What link are you talking about? Can we hear the “cleaned up” version?
TO; The Desk of Rachael
FROM: The Olympia Offices of Xena
It’s the link to attorney Crump’s motion in opposition to O’Mara’s motion to unseal the settlement agreement. The cleaned up version of the 911 call is not provided. We’ll hear it at trial, and I want to watch GZ’s face as he hears his own voice cursing at Trayvon and the experts identity that as his voice.
FROM THE DESK OF RACHAEL S
Oh, I found it. Thanks. I just wanted to show off my desk again, my BIG desk, like Jr.’s.
from the bedside table of fauxmccoy
to the BIG DESK of Rachel who says
i think i may be suffering desk envy
~sigh
From the desk of racerrodig
“i think i may be suffering desk envy”
Would it help if I said my was trash picked, which it was, and that we all love you no matter the size or age of your desk??
awww sucks, thanks racer!
From the desk of racerrodig
I know you meant “Shucks” ??? because that’s the way you are!!
oh dear, racer, that was one heckuva typo 🙂
thank you so much for not castigating nor lambasting me 🙂
From the desk of racerrodig
faux, I would never get on your case, I love you guys & gals far to much. It’s an imperfect world……just look at me for proof.
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK (and cluttered mind) of Cielo62- TO: racer and fauxy- I concur in the affirmative, Mr. Racer. Extreme affection does emanate from all desk occupants. Please accept my hearty contribution as well.
Most cordially, (hoodies up) Cielo62
Sent from my iPod
From the desk of racerrodig
c-62 You’re one of the players here !! And doing a great job I must say….
LOL@Rachael
You can hear another voice that sounds exactly like GZ right Trayvon yells “help me”. In fact what I hear is GZ saying “help me” and then I hear Trayvon yell “help me” really loud as if to tell the same person to help him instead of helping GZ. I wonder who that person was, because he definately witnessed the shot.
@Eugene Hudson
Months ago, I wrote about the 911 call capturing GZ’s voice. It was after researching an ABC news reports that Trayvon called 911 within seconds of being killed by GZ, and that GZ’s voice was captured on the call. ABC reported that the FBI had the tape to enhance to see what GZ was saying. ABC later explained that it was the 911 call of an ear witness that captured the background.
As I explained in that post, when first hearing that 911 call, other than hearing GZ’s NEN call, the public was unfamiliar with his voice. Subsequently, he took the stand at his bond hearing. Then we heard the jailhouse recordings. That was followed by his Hannity interview and the video on his begging site. GZ’s voice is very distinct from the screams and cries for help. He could not be cursing at Trayvon and screaming for help at the same time.
Trayvon Martin shooting: Screams, shots heard on 911 call
March 17th 2012
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-17/news/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-911-call-20120316_1_deadly-shooting-shot-man-reports
The recordings were released after Trayvon’s family spent two hours with city officials, listening to the calls that documented the 17-year-old’s last moments alive.
“What you hear on that tape is shocking. It’s riveting,” Benjamin Crump, an attorney for Trayvon’s family, said after the group emerged from their meeting with officials late Friday.
Police had previously refused to release the calls. Zimmerman, a 28-year-old neighborhood crime watch volunteer, has not been arrested and is not charged with a crime. He claimed the Feb. 26 shooting was in self defense.
In one of the eight calls, screaming can be heard in the background as a woman tries to get help. The call is punctuated by two loud bangs.
Martin family attorneys said both were gunfire.
“You hear a shot, a clear shot, then you hear a 17-year-old boy begging for his life,” said Natalie Jackson, one of the family’s attorneys, “Then you hear a second shot.”
But three witnesses who have made public statements have been clear that they heard a single shot, and Trayvon was hit in the chest by a single bullet.
In one of the eight calls, screaming can be heard in the background as a woman tries to get help. That call is punctuated by two gunshots.
“You hear a shot, a clear shot, then you hear a 17-year-old boy begging for his life,” said Natalie Jackson, another family attorney. “Then you hear a second shot.”
It was the first time that anyone said two shots were fired that night.
excerpt
In one of the 911 calls, placed moments later, a man reports that “they’re wrestling right in the back of my porch. There’s a black guy down. It looks like he’s been shot and he’s dead.”
Family members would not comment after listening to the tapes.
“They are overwhelmed by grief at what they heard this evening,” Crump said. “The last seconds of his life were in absolute fear.”
The boy’s mother could only listen to about half of the recordings, Crump said. His father broke down near the end, Crump said, “and cried like a baby.”
From the desk of racerrodig
That actually looks like real Attorneys wrote it, unlike the childish garbage by the one known as Moron O’ Mara.
From the desk of Shannon In Miami.
LMFAO!!!!!
From the desk of racerrodig
Note to shannoninmiami :
Good….you ain’t seen nothing yet !! As time goes on and trial gets near, all I can say is “Fasten your seat belt”
Racer, “fasten your seatbelts” and also “put on your crash helmet.”
From the desk of racerrodig
Oh, yeah…..when we get to that point it will be Seatbelts fastened, Helmet & Hoodie on…….and away we go.
I’m getting a blank page, but maybe the server is overwhelmed at the moment.
No I didn’t read this, thank shannoninmiami!
Ya’ll see it? Opposition to Motion to Unseal from Mr. Crump in response to O’mara, sounds like opposing counsel too me.
Ha, Mr. Crump set the bait and Omar fell for it, hook line and sinker!!!!
LOL I wonder if omar thinks this little trick was worth the $2000 they made off it? what a dummy. now the court will have another excuse to blast and deny ANOTHER motion in front of GOD and EVERYBODY watching live on TV! LMAOOOOO
what else will they do for a few bucks! and pimping out MAMA Z looks real classy too !LOLO #EPIC #FAIL
Fogen is the story of someone who has ONLY privilege going for him, and then when the privilege runs out, he’s fuming mad and the smoke is pouring out his ears because he lost his privilege. That is so childish. When my kid was little, he would play with all the neighbor children. One of them was very bossy and abusive if my kid was at HIS house. When they kids were all in the park together, his kid tried to be bossy and abusive but it didn’t work because they’d just walk away from him and play with someone else. But when that same kid came over to my house, there were always lots of kids because I did day-care. He’d try to be bossy and abusive and I wouldn’t let him and neither would the other kids because they knew the rules; then he’d have a tantrum!
Fogen got to push people around plenty in his life. But then, there started to be people pushing back. I think probably someone in Virginia really got on his case and he left. Then in Florida he was pushing people around and began to lose some battles and he got fired, got threatened with eviction, got troubles of this and that sort. On 2/26/2012 he was probably in a situation where he couldn’t see the reality of his recent losses of privilege being part of a trend. He was becoming someone who was just like everybody else who wasn’t going to be the “privileged character” any more, who had to toe the line like the next guy, produce like the next guy, take his lumps like the next guy. He didn’t get it. So he killed somebody.
Then he really thought his privilege was going to carry him past the long arm of the law.
Think again, [as LLMPapa would add] GENIUS!
From the desk of racerrodig
I firmly believe that something pretty substantial happened in VA. Maybe he did run over one of those unsuspecting Mexicans on the sidewalk, so to speak. My P. I. friend is trying to find out as a matter of curiosity. He’s betting the farm on it in fact, and I’d never bet against him. I read somewhere that Fogen stayed with Wolfinger for a time when he first got to FL. as Papi & Mami got there after him.
From the half/cut whiskey barrel of T.O
Wouldn’t doubt it, racer. Hope your P.I. pal turns something up. BTW, I think it’s disgusting that Wolfinger took as long as he did to recuse himself from a case where clearly he had a conflict of interest from the get-go. Even though he’s now out of office, there ought to be bar sanctions for that ethical breach.
From the desk of racerrodig
I’m thinking there is something there. Fogen moved before the rest of family……all alone ??
rayvenwolf says:
April 11, 2013 at 4:40 pm
Bingo. If anything the moment word got around, and it always does, that he called the cops on his landlord, that should have been a 60ft tall neon sign that he was trouble and would continue to be such. I mean really? That takes serious brass to say not only am I not giving you the money I owe, but I’m also going to call the cops.
GZ presumably was at his last job at the time so where was all that money going?
@
He had an in with local L E or he indicated he did.
This was him Modis Operandi be sides calling L E on anyone Black he didnt like the look of ie all of them.
He called LE on anyone he perceived as threating or nuisance or inconveinanceing him.
A guy works bar at his non grad party wants paid probaby in cash as opossed rubber check.An foggagge calls LE his buddie cos he can.
That would intimidate most people.Like the land lord foggagge called LE this person is harraseing me I want him of his property .That he is going to lose as Im squatting an freeloading an stealing money in the form of rent.From this guys pocket.
And the poloce show up an side with foggagge.
The poor landlord has got to drive of thinking W T F just happened.
He after all campagned an activated for the the S P D Cheif of Police to get the job B Lee.An aggited against the incumbant Cheif to lose his job an his penssion
Nobody has the gall to treat LE as there private body gaurds/mussle unless they have an in with some top brass in the force.
This idiot probably had a garanteed job an uniform waiting if only he could get a passing grade.
Wich seemed beyond his capabilites listening to foggage an his actions it seems special ed was more his level as opposed to collage.
colin black says
there are many clues to be found that the defendant may have been a narc, or police informant, if you will. this is just one of the clues.
FROM THE. DESK OF RACHAEL S
Awesome clue!
@rachael
oooooh, baby! your desk, it speaks to me 🙂
Gladys thinks this song was meant litterlery for her son giveing him permision to play the secret agent enforcer in his deluded mind.
An shoot any Black person Or Mexican at a pinch straight through the heart.
Keep in mind that in addition to describing that Trayvon was afraid of the “creepy guy in the car” that W8, “Dee Dee” also seems to credibly describe the car-to-pedestrian chase that is a very damning element of the case against GZ. This man pursued the teen closely with his motor vehicle causing the youth to run off the motorway, yet the man simply parked, by his own admission on the wrong side of the road facing the wrong way (this “which way was he facing” remains unproven and disputable) and then exited the vehicle to pursue on foot, which he readily admitted to as the incident was happening. So the foot pursuit was only AFTER a vehicular pursuit, one the defendant lied about but will be proven in court to have occurred. It is this initial pursuit that will be so damning to the defendant’s false narrative, and this IMO is why the defense wants so badly to impeach the credibility of W8.
It’s the INITIAL chase from near the mail kiosk towards the cut thru that GZ went to great lengths to obscure, omit and obfuscate by telling obvious lies to the SPD investigators, even going so far as to mark a map in his own handwriting showing his most likely position before quickly crossing it out while inventing an impossible scenario of the teen “doubling back” (an action he himself performed during said car to pedestrian chase) to circle his car, falsely ascribing the aggression to the unarmed teen.
This PATTERN of lies – what George did, he blames on the kid, and when in doubt, George leaves it out – can and should be shown to the jury to help explain what likely happened in the “missing minutes” that led up to the physical struggle and intentional shooting death of an unarmed minor.
Crump if fighting to maintain the credibility of a key witness using the means at his disposal to keep out false attacks on her character and his own because IMO she is able to support the evidence of a car-to-pedestrian chase that proves the bad intent of the defendant – the “profiled and pursued” aspect of the prosecution’s case. However it’s likely the prosecution can prove this car-to-pedestrian chase took place even without the supporting testimony of W8, simply by explaining the deductive reasoning that follows if you ask the vital question, where was GZ and where was Trayvon when GZ had the following exchange:
Q:He’s by the clubhouse now?
A: Yeah, now he’s coming towards me.
The only POSSIBLE place where the timing of a walking human and a car fits the next minute or so of the recording is to place the car at the first bend of TTL, likely facing the mail kiosk,and then to MOVE the car in concert with the pedestrian as he heads to the second bend, and begins to run when chased by the car.
George himself admits to moving the car during the call, but obfuscates his initial position in an obvious lie in order to omit the car to pedestrian chase. Again, Dee Dee ear-witnessed some of this – their call dropped right about the moment Trayvon ran off the roadway, and she called him back, but the movements and actions can be proven with or without her testimony.
Fogen was guaranteed to lose Trayvon at the Taaffe corner, had he driven ahead, the dog-leg bend in the road would have not allowed him to key an eye on the direction of travel of his suspect. (Note fogen adds a car backing out, to delay his forward travel along the road, but that isn’t enough to explain him driving ahead of Trayvon).
This is even more of an impossibility if Trayvon had encountered fogen in the Colonial complex, and as W8 said, Trayvon wasn’t going to run (ie cause him to be chased) but would walk fast, and also that he was going to take a short cut so the guy couldn’t follow. That short cut could have been to cut through at Taaffee’s corner and if Fogen drove over and picked Trayvon up to ‘surveil’ at that point, Trayvon must have been paniced facing that car again when he was in his home complex.
Given the chance to lose the car again, he would have taken another route over to the other side of he complex, that’s just self-defense that he already said he was doing.
That must have been terrifying.
And remember what fogen told Irwin when he asked:
Irwin: “Why did you try to maintain such close proximity to him?”
Fogen: “To tell the police where he….. what direction he was headed in.”
“Where he…???” Why would he say ‘where he [was going] , strange, did Fogen know exactly where this child was headed and when he needed to cut him off?
If he really thought he was heading out the back entrance to the complex, why would he not drive over to the back gate entrance and wait there to catch the bad guy at the locked gate?
Something funny about ‘where he’ abruptly changed to ” what direction” he was headed in.
@ay2z
EXACTLY! Had Trayvon entered that gated community by Taaffe’s with intent on committing a crime, and seeing that he was spotted, he would have turned around and walked out the same way he entered rather than walking towards GZ.
Because we’re so advanced today than we were way back when we started, we forget that during the reenactment, we learned, not only how much time GZ had to spend at FT’s to have observed the actions he recounted there. But we also forget that GZ claims that, when he drove over and parked at the clubhouse, no sooner than he parked there, here comes Trayvon walking towards him.
When one looks at the map and measures the distances involved, one discovers that while its a 15 second drive for GZ, from FT’s place to the clubhouse where he parked, it’s a 1 minute 20 second walk for Trayvon. So, for Trayvon to just walk up, within 5 seconds of GZ parking there as he says, Trayvon has to walk at somewhere near 20 to 30 mph. That’s some pretty darn fast walking wouldn’t you say? Begs the question why GZ didn’t think Trayvon wasn’t an athlete eh? 😆
@Lonnie Starr
I wonder how many aspirins and antacids O’Mara has taken while watching the clubhouse videos? He won’t know what the State knows about them until they present their expert at trial, yet no expert the defense hires will be able to see those videos to agree with GZ’s story.
The work of analyzing those cctv’s is tedious and boring. It take great dedication because it took Tchoupi. Whonoze and Amsterdam (I think) a week of 16 hour days to accomplish. I was on the bcclist when they were doing the work. IIRC they treated us to a synopsis of just how tedious the work was, they had to go back and forth over 30 hours of video to ascertain the time and tease out other events. So the work was no joke.
I doubt MOM is going to find experts of similar dedication, especially with what little money he has budgeted. 3 to 6 thousand dollars isn’t going to buy 7 16 hour days for sure, less the tedium of recursively viewing 30 hours of videos. They’ll probably take his money and hand him renamed copies of tchoupi’s work.
@Lonnie Starr. Before I saw the work of who I term “The Whonoze crew,” I saw Trent Sawyer’s videos. It helped to be able to see the lighting changes, distinguishing headlights, side lights on vehicles, etc. Trent was the first to realize that the CCTV vids were off by 20 minutes. Once I became accustomed to what I was seeing, the video by the Whonoze crew was easily understandable and outstanding.
The only question that O’Mara has in GZ’s defense is, “Are you for certain that the car lights in the videos are that of the defendant’s?” Then on cross, BDLR has the question, “To the best of your knowledge, were there any other vehicles on those streets during the time that the defendant called NEN?”
That’s obvious. He wouldn’t “escape” by heading toward the back gate.
Good point, I was thinking of Trayvon only as getting home, not as a criminal scenario, and of course, that’s what fogen profiled him as, a criminal.
But whichever way, fogen’s own words mean he was not about to loose sight of him, following, not leading, and staying at close proximity once he was on his home NW turf.Have to wonder,
Have to wonder though, if fogen knew where Trayvon was staying, and new where he would be headed once he had fogen on his tail.
It doesn’t fit time wise, and it doesn’t fit what can be seen in the clubhouse video’s.
We have no evidence about Trayvon’s path from the 7 eleven to RATL, but unless GZ never was on TTL and another person was trolling the mail area at RATL at the time of the nen call,
Trayvon was at the mail area, and GZ was stalking and following him from the mail area towards the cut-through at the time of the nen call.
“Something funny about ‘where he’ abruptly changed to ” what direction” he was headed in.”
He has so many Freudian slips, he’s Freudian Joke. His reenactment has several as do his interviews. His slip of my wife and I, says something as well.
The more time goes on and the more one thinks about this, it does look like he knew exactly where Trayvon was going.
“My wife..” the dufus probably thought of himself as a future Columbo.
That is one thing for certain that can be said of GZ, he has predictable patterns of behavior. Lots of them. Lying, leaving things out, saying Trayvon said/did what was really him, following people, hurting people physically and emotionally, and who knows what the hell else.
ABC is the only major media organization to orovide a Z mother letter along with the reply discussion of the lawyers for Trayvon’s parents.
Google search for past week under “Trayvon Martin”, shows all defense promo articles come up front and center, even though the defense nor client was used to describe the search..
http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martins-family-clash-arrest-anniversary/story?id=18932266#.UWguMxzwPqM
The good thing about this is that soon RZ Jr has to shut up about the media not being fair to Fogen!
two sides says
true, true. now he just puts on mommy’s dress and proclaims it from her mouth, via his desk. what a mixed up family.
From the desk of racerrodig
“… now he just puts on mommy’s dress and proclaims it from her mouth, via his desk. what a mixed up family.”
Yep !! As if we would not figure that out. Robbie the Ridiculous Racist…….a real slice of life.
Yep, that’s it exactly.
Yes, and Scott who filed the complaint, said he drives his BMW, no pull-overs in 13 years, but when he drove an older car, he was pulled over for a licence plate light that wasn’t out.
Good they got this cop off the road..
Windermere officer arrested in racial profiling probe
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-windermere-police-racial-profiling-20130412,0,4375715.story
A Windermere police officer has been arrested related to a racial profiling investigation and another officer has been suspended without pay pending an internal investigation, Windermere Chief David Ogden said.
Windermere Police Officer Jason Darnell was arrested on felony charges of official misconduct and threatening a public servant during an investigation of race-based profiling, authorities reported this morning.
Police say they have four victims who were stopped in racially biased traffic stops within Windermere town limits. All were minority motorists and all were stopped but never ticketed or arrested, authorities said. They would not give details about the investigation, which is ongoing.
But Ogden and Florida Department of Law Enforcement officials said they suspect there might be other victims who have not come forward.
“I want the residents of Windermere to know this ends practices that are unacceptable and will not be tolerated under any circumstances,” Ogden said.
Cool!
racial profiling was started with the war on drugs and has been used ever since……that is why the VAST majority of drug users AND dealers are WHITE, but the far and away vast majority in prison for those things are black!
the police have targeted blacks for decades, and it continues today!
2 X
AMEN!
Make that the vast majority who are arrested and tried. And it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. The more police stop black people on the assumption that they are likely to be involved with drugs, the more the official data will bear out that drug involvement is disproportionately black.
I have tried to explain that to a few self-proclaimed “non-racists” (I’m just following the data!) over time. They don’t seem to be able to get it.
bill taylor says
bill, i do my best to leave politics at the door when i come here, but i do remember that you are one of our few resident conservatives.
i know your statement above to be true, not because of my race, but because of my education and study of white privilege. in my experience, i find few conservatives who do know the truth behind incarceration statistics. we likely both know that minorities have a disproportional access to legal remedy than do most whites, largely due to a variety of social situations which keep minorities earning power on the lower end of the spectrum.
so many of other sites that discuss this case have racists (a large percent of them conservative) coming out of the woodwork to use the ‘black kid is thug because look at incarceration rates’ argument, which i am sure you would have to disagree.
all i ask is that you scream it loud and proud among your conservative brethren, please. the situation, on the whole, socially speaking, is not likely to improve any time soon, until as a society we can all acknowledge the simple, basic truth you stated above, which distilled, affirms that institutional racism is alive and well in this country.
LOL, i gotta tell the truth, conservatives dont get along with me much at all, because i deal in reality and truth, NOT from the left or right “side” i side with truth and accurate information, and MANY conservatives dont like that at all.
for me on a liberal forum i get called all sorts of names for being conservative, but on the conservative forums they would bet money i am a flaming liberal.
i am a TRUE “liberal” which is also what conservatives are supposed to be = a person that favors personal LIBERTY.
@Bill Taylor I would of never thought you was a conservative by your post,great to see there are good people on the other side.
@Bill Taylor,
Here is an article I read in the SNR when I lived in Sacramento. Exactly what you said, the last sentence of the article says it all. “I should have avoided prison because I was lucky, not because I was white.” A good read for all.
http://www.newsreview.com/sacramento/jim-crow-2012/content?oid=7629146
Across 110th street,
the pusher wont let the junkie go free…
Anyways, I think you should take a look at prison
It’s actually fairly multicultural with criminals of all backgrounds
Probably the only racial group with not a lot of people in prison are Asians, but there are still Asians in prison, mainly for fraud or gangster stuff
jun, Yes, the prisons are multi-cultural, but not in the same proportions as the population as a whole. Incarceration rates for Blacks and Latinos are much higher for whites.
“much higher for whites.” should be “much higher than for whites”.
FROM THE DESK OF LOONEYDOONE
Seems jr has an alias….Robert J Vimmerman
http://www.instantcheckmate.com
Just like his brother … 🙂
Xena,
from the ocean view, bird’s eye maple desk of looneydoone
jr really does use the alias Robert J Vimmerman
@looneydoone
Yeah — he probably didn’t want to be associated with his family’s name. There are skeletons in that closet — a graveyard worth.
Hooray… I see this as the power of the internet at work. It’s been a long time pounding “the pavement of the pavilions of the minds”, but doing so is finally bearing fruit. The internet is flooding light into the “corners” of life, in those obscure places, where vast public attention would never reach. It is the impact we’re having as an almost irresistible force in these areas, that are waking up the authorities to the need to reel in and monitor the once “dark corners” of their jurisdictions. Before some egregious incident darkly, exposes them to the instabilities that can be caused by adverse public opinion.
Wait! This story is bound to get Aussie in a twist! Forget that these cops were investigated by their own department. Forget that there are multiple witnesses; they might have an agenda to smear these two wonderful cops. Totally ignore if the cops admit to being aware of and taking into account the color of the drivers skin; that’s not relevant. There’s just no Evidence! (Yeah, right)
Sent from my iPod
Nothing to add really, sorry if someone already posted the link or the text:
I by the way would defend every American against the image of America projected in the letter of Grace Zimmerman. It is simply a much too big country to consist only of these type of self-proclaimed upright and religious Americans, which one could call more easily bigots. They exist everywhere. One of the basics of America are equal rights, and just as her son has them, Trayvon had them too. And now his family has every right to demand justice for Trayvon. It’s NOT American to avoid responsibility for your actions. At least I have never heard about the American avoidance of responsibility myth. Maybe Grace can elaborate, what makes that specifically American?
Bears repeating, LeaNider. Hope we can find a pdf version to link the whole letter in original form here.
That’s an easy one, ay2z. I have this link in my TM folder. Makes sense to check it occasionally during these type of events.
_________________________________________________
April 11, 2013
Statement from Trayvon Martin’s Family and their Attorneys
One year ago today, the State of Florida decided that there was evidence to charge George Zimmerman for second-degree murder for profiling, pursuing, and killing our unarmed teenage son. The facts of this case are simple and straightforward. We are confident that a jury following the overwhelming evidence against George Zimmerman will hold him accountable for killing our son, Trayvon Martin.
For the Zimmerman family to allege that the justice system doesn’t work, simply because they are unhappy their son was arrested in the first place, is disingenuous and disrespectful to the very system that is currently affording him every available opportunity to defend himself. The arrest of an admitted killer is not a violation of due process, it is due process. Most will agree that no one has been given greater consideration by the justice system for killing an unarmed child, than George Zimmerman.
We continue to pray that our son’s death will serve as a catalyst in preventing other senseless acts of gun violence.
__________________________________________________
Link via clickorlando article to TMW
Bears repeating again, thanks for the link. Only one of the regular Orlando news outlets carried that story, cfnews13 for example, has the two defendant stories up as headlines (money and mama Z), but not balanced reporting to add this response. Sad.
The reponse to Gladys’s letter is elegant and rings true. Glady’s letter is heartfelt – I feel her pain at dealing with Fogen’s actions and charges, but it doesn’t ring that truth bell. Too many dog whistles in it.
Fogen Jr is trying to argue probable cause and he fails
The state has every right to arrest Fogen and take him to trial
It is undisputed that Fogen went after Trayvon with a car and a gun, stalked the kid, chased and pursued Trayvon, followed Trayvon, and then killed the unarmed kid
Everything else Fogen Jr says is his own biased interpretation of everything and stuff he made up, and his arguments are nonsensical
The news stations have every right to report on Fogen, and they simply reported what was news in regards to the murder
The family of Trayvon have every right to go after Fogen and find justice
They want to talk nonsense, well then talk it at trial, and have a reasonable debate, not their unchallenged statements, threatening media conglomerates to print it or else
From the desk of racerrodig
The Zidiots and the FogenPhoole Klan think “Due Process” in this case means “Pick on the Fogens” never realizing the arrest is just a part of Due Process. The last chapter starts with the words “Guilty as Charged”
I sometimes wonder if he ever woke up from his delusions. In other words he needs a strong support base to keep it up.
I sometimes wonder if he ever woke up from his delusions. In other words he needs a strong support base to keep it up.
From The Desk Of Jun
Fogen Jr is a bloodclot idiot and racist redneck who pretends to be various races because he thinks it hides his racism
He hides it? For a time. Gives him some higher ability and right, as having a unit of some race in his genes, to exploit his own hatred of it? He tries.
We should excuse it? Never!
IOW, June, to your comment, my reply would be ‘Exactly!’
From the desk racerrodig
Yep, there is doubt about it.
LOVE this, Jun!
Great article. Unfortunately, I think that O’Mara is setting a terrible precedent. I think that the lawyers who would legitimately be described as “shysters” will follow this playbook for years to come. There doesn’t appear to be any mechanism to stop them. The public begging, clear lack of “good faith” statements/filings on the part on the defense, defamation of the victim via large audience targeted media and the repetitive false narratives also perpetuated via large audience targeted media, combined with a nothing to lose (no sanctions) outlook is a recipe for a relatively fast degeneration of the justice system, as we know it.
IMO – this is one time when the laws (or legal ethics boards) simply have to move more quickly than is its wont.
So true, Nef … and I think the professor’s analysis of why Ben and Bruce took the action that they did underscores how ethical attorneys must now diligently work to avoid being smeared with what’s about to become more prevalent if not par.
(That’s not to suggest that co-mingling of settlement funds and operational funds at law firms is anything new.)
Indeed. I hope they view it as a challenge, as Ben, Bruce (and I’d add BDLR), seem to have done.
I agree with Nef05. BDLR has also been courageous in naming the living room elephants. If O’Mara wants to use the filing of motions in order to publicize things that he cannot get on the record as evidence during trial, he can at least expect to be called out on it.
Fits his client though, as he too, was trying to set a precedent of killing his intruders by using a law twisted to meet his lies.
@a72z, I find that terrifying and reading the momentum of those supporters. Has me in fear I may have to Stand My Ground one day against one of those supporters.
Absolutely. And, I still believe that his supporters couldn’t care less about him and are far more interested in him getting acquitted for something they fantasize about being able to do themselves (and get away with).
Oh no, Nef and and Trained Observer, I have to disagree this time. The only ones who have set precedents in this case are (a) Blackswell (that guy is just as erudite as it can get in his writings and is a terrific orator), (b) BDLR (remember his Epic Smack Down of O’Mara? That happens just once in a while – if ever). O’Mara has no respect among his peers, no following. Only O’Mara’s kind (the mediocre) will follow him down the gutter with his gutter-lawyering. I am more than disgusted by his disgraceful attitude towards Mr. Crump (who has taken the high moral ground and prudently chose not to respond in kind – not even in the form of ethics complaint), and his intimidation/harassment of witnesses, among whom W9, W8, Trayvon’s parents, etc.
@Searching Minds
I am more than disgusted by his disgraceful attitude towards Mr. Crump (who has taken the high moral ground and prudently chose not to respond in kind — not even in the for of ethics complaint), and his intimidation/harassment of witnesses, among whom W9, W8, Trayvon’s parents, etc.
I whole heartedly agree with you! Omar is a sheet closer to wearing the ‘White Robe’. I do declare he writes those Motions while wearing one.
Ahhh, perfectly understandable. I should have used another word. I wasn’t using precedent in it’s legal sense, I was using it in the much more general sense of creating a pattern to be followed. You call it “gutter-lawyering”, I call ’em “shysters” – either way, we’re on the same page. 🙂
Definitely, as Nef sez, “we’re on the same page.”
I don’t think so, look, we can’t always rely on the ethics boards to straighten things out for us. If our legal system is to survive, we the people have to learn to become enamored of truth and learn to think critically to determine it for ourselves. If tomfoolery is to rule then so be it. But, we need to have faith that it won’t gain the upper hand for long, because it is empty, has little to offer and cannot offer persistent success.
We learn to think better when we learn that poor thinking leads to failure! That’s a lesson that the non-liberals need to learn.
From the desk of racerrodig
” If tomfoolery is to rule then so be it. But, we need to have faith that it won’t gain the upper hand for long, because it is empty, has little to offer and cannot offer persistent success.”
So maybe tronie is a lawyer, because you just described him as well…………..just sayin’
Would that it were so. Critical thinking skills seem to be dropping at an alarming rate, just from my anecdotal experience. I offer *abstinence only* sex ed for teens and pro-lifers arguments against contraception, as examples (taking no position on either topic for the purposes of this blog).
Absolutely! But, then you run smack dab into the Dunning-Kruger effect, and well, there you go…
Yes, well I’m at a stage where I’m regaining some confidence, realizing that not everyone around me has an equivalent or better level of competence. For quite some time I’ve always been mesmerized by how smart everyone in the world seemed to be but me. But, given that, I could not understand why they couldn’t see the obvious coming and took to calling me prescient for saying so.
Now I’m realizing that there are a whole slew of people who aren’t competent enough to realize that the sky will be blue if the clouds go away. How these people manage to dress themselves in the morning is nothing short of being one of life’s great mysteries. 😆
Following Nef offtrack for the fun of it (and I hope I am embedding this correctly).
Well, let’s tiry a link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/02/louie-gohmert-magazine-limits_n_3000911.html
If people are unable to think critically they are unable to understand why what gohmert says makes no sense. Without some means of establishing a reference point, where one can figure out how and/or why any limits at all will or could be set, then they can’t see that it’s silly to say that lifting or imposing a limit on one thing, means that limits on other things will have to be lifted or imposed, as well.
Once, however, someone punctures his bubble by showing that speed limits were changed from 70 to 55 and back to 70 again, without affecting either gay marriages or how many bullets a magazine can hold… Well, people will begin to look at Gohmert as a candidate for the looney bin. Those who don’t, however, are probably candidates themselves.
Oh geez, Lurker – no you didn’t go THERE! LMAO! Perfect example! 😀
Prof explained that the only circumstances causing the Bar Association to take action is if Attorney steals client’s money, or if Attorney has sex with client.
But you are right.
I remember that. I wonder if they may become motivated to change that, in their own self-interest, for the good of the profession? I’m just thinking that for ethical professionals with integrity, who take pride in their profession, are as outraged as some of us laypersons. The Professor’s revulsion and disgust with O’Mara’s tactics are palpable, and I can’t believe he’s the only one. I got the feeling Judges Lester and Nelson weren’t too happy, either. But, that’s pure speculation on my part, since they would never publicly say such a thing. I just hope those in a position to do something about it are equally disgusted.
“if attorney has sex with client” — and the client doesn’t like it.
“if attorney steals client’s money” — and the client is rich enough to do something about it.
Otherwise, those bar associations are worse than “a joke”; a joke is funny. Those bar associations are outright frauds.
On an unrelated note (except when contemplating potential future for Fogen attorneys) here’s a link showing you gotta keep an eye on Florida lawyers. No bail for this dude, either.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/broward/fort-lauderdale/fl-disbarred-attorney-accused-20130411,0,2675248.story
FYI, earlier story said no bail, but the disbarred lawyer did indeed get out on $420,000 bond.
I can’t wait until the outhouse becomes a part of the 21st century and gets plumbing. Then we can flush that last refuse away.
Just when this blog gets its’ intellectual and analytical flow going on. Distractor(s) begin BS. Downplaying Trayvons’ Murder then disrespect his parents. I only know of one In your face Fogen supporter, others’ pretend they are not, as if we can’t tell.
Alert Tags need applied forewarning members before reading shockingly absurd distractor comments:
@ ic2fools. Everybody in the house is lol. Too funny.
@Mary Davis thank you. The one I wanted to post would have gotten me kicked out the house!
Click to access fee_affidavits.pdf
And we needed a notarized copy of the charge per hour for MOM & Co to eat lunch while waiting on the Judges reply, WHY???
Really?? Keeping tabs for Bernie and John to pick up?
That’s an hour per lunch, 730 dollars plus cost of food, drinks, taxes and tips.
Who claims the tax deduction?? 😉
But — but —- but, they agreed to represent GZ pro bono.
The next thing we know, they’re ask for sanctions to pay for the bottled water O’Mara drinks in court and during his press conferences. Sheesh.
You keep forgetting, although Omara repeatedly asks for money for everything and whines to get money, everyone else are the ones that are greedy and selfish not He
Not I said the troll, Not I, said the troll
When Omara asked the public for a million dollars, after blowing through 40 Grand with no explanation except “office upgrades”, he has no goal or getting money, it is everyone else, and Omara is not bias, everyone else is
Not I, said the troll, Not I, said the troll
When Omara repeatedly lies and misrepresents facts and tries propaganda, Omara is not the liar, everyone who has not shown to lie are the liars and the biased ones
Not I, said the troll, Not I
That’s called the logic gained from alien beams from tinfoil hat signals LOL
@Lynn, apologies I missed your posted. I just posted the same link.
Omar is desperate for money, he schemed up Discovery Sanctions to get money. He is no more than a con and will take money anywhere it comes from.
I think O’Mara will be asking the Court to declare GZ indigent – very soon. That will be the next Motion and O’Mara is preparing the public for that.
@SearchingMind
Previously when O’Mara talked about petitioning the court to find GZ indigent, he raised concern that donations were supporting GZ living expenses, giving the impression that If the court declares GZ indigent, the trust fund will need to be resolved.
It will be very difficult for the court to declare a defendant indigent when they have received over $300,000 of other people’s money and still has that door opened.
They are in the red and have been for some time. His Beg Site update yesterday even confirmed it, of course we knew that some time ago.
@racerrodig
From the Office of Xena
Well, I offered GZ’s centerfold for fund raising, but no one is buying. 🙂
@Xena,
Print the centerfold on refrigerator magnets – XXXL size.
Nobody would ever open their frig door.
It’s “The New Xena Diet”
You’ll make a million!
From the old desk of racerrodig
Last month my son & I went to a friends son’s paintball birthday party and there was one of the Team Trayvon members who blew up a court room picture of Fogen 8 foot high and tacked it on a thin sheet of plywood.
Needless to say, the words “Open Fire” had a whole new meaning. By the way, I made some new friends that day !!
To: The desk of PiranhaMom
From: Xena’s Kitchen
LMAO!!
Xena- (shyly and very softly) uh… Can I order one? I need to lose some 30 pounds…and I’m desperate!
Sent from my iPod
@Cielo,
FROM THE KITTY LITTER PAN OF BEAUREGARD:
Order one for my mom, too!
@Cielo62
(Whispering) I’ll give you one for free, but for 30 pounds, take the picture down after 3 days. If you leave it up longer, you won’t have any appetite for months.
To the Olympian Offices of Xena- LOL! Thanks!
Sent from my iPod
From the desk (and warped mind of) racerrodig
Xena :
I thought that we had an agreement that this would be presented to the public as a fundraiser at the appropriate time. Trademark and Copyright laws aside……………. it sure is still a laugh riot !!!!
TO: The Desk of Racerrodig
FROM: The Throne of Hercules
Please be advised that GZ’s long term and ongoing condition of being financially broke calls for drastic action. Hercules is currently in the process of contacting the manufacturers of Band Aid to hire GZ to endorse their knuckle bandages.
Regards,
Xena, on behalf of Hercules, the Magnificent
From the desk of racerrodig
Xena :
I cannot stress enough the importance of proper planning with an investment of this magnitude. As you are aware, “Robbie the Racist” dolls are selling very poorly at this time. Our Marketing Dept. has been made aware that most are being sold as “Voodoo Dolls” for some reason. The “PhatFogenPhoole” dolls have not sold as well as planned either.
Evidently the research that was done may have been skewed for some reason early on, as many of the stores in some areas are holding most of their inventory despite the Beg Site Donation Rebate being offered. It seems FogenPhoole “Missed the TugBoat for some reason.
I feel waiting on the Markie O line before manufacture begins would be prudent as well. In fact, I believe that is “…undisputed…” at this point. It also seems that the Digital Voice Device has problems whereas the doll keeps repeating the same thing for some reason. I am awaiting why it keeps repeating the words “Now comes the defendant” until the batteries are removed.
It seems we should have released the slimmer FogenPhoole line at some point last year, but then again, the Zidiot dolls repeat that also. That is “Release the Fogen….Release the Fogen”
It seems that the “Outhouse Patch Kids” are doing even worse in
sales and most seem to wind up as targets. To be honest, it seems anything related to this line is a loser. That Unitron toy seems to be a failure as well. Reminiscent of many other toys, it cannot be used with others as it simply does not fit in.
if your Research and Marketing Departments can fill me in on a true selling point, I can make an attempt to slim down the outlay per unit, however, slimming this one could prove an impossibility.
We have hired a new Consulting Firm, We See The Truth LLC, and they inform us that their testing shows the proposed FogenPhoole Cell Mate line cannot fail. It seems we should rely on Experts on this one
As always I await your thoughts on this.
racerrodig
TO: The Desk of Racerrodig
FROM: The Olympian Office of Xena
Distributors advised that the “Robbie the Racist” dolls are selling as “Voodoo Dolls” because “Free George Zimmerman” badges are offered for free, and people are pinning the badges on the Robbie the Racist dolls. Retailers were giving away 10 “Free George Zimmerman” badges with each doll in order to free-up warehouse space since they are not selling.
By the way, Hercules told me to tell you that you missed your calling.
From the desk of racerrodig
Xena :
I find it astounding that we were not informed about the “Free George Zimmerman” buttons. I am assuming our experts are not all of that at this point. The question is, are the buttons free or are they making reference to an impossibility.
We have not received the complete Marketing Analysis of the “SheLie 3 Easy Bake Oven Recipes” cookbook as 2 of them have proven to be the same item.
For the record, you cannot make Hot Dogs in an Easy Bake Oven.
I was just given the latest Analysis on the FogenPhoole Cell Mate kit and it seems we need to iron out very few details. The programers have several new ideas for the Digital Voice Device, but the one that seems to make the best sense is the one where the doll simply cries, then pees his pants.
Again, awaiting your response.
racerrodig
TO: The Desk of Racerrodig
FROM: The Mount Olympus Office of Xena
Please allow me to explain about the “Free George Zimmerman” buttons. Our marketing research team researched the comment boards of news articles that reported on Butt in the Box’s case. They also researched articles and comments on blogs that support Butt in the Box.
Based on their research, they counted 25,000 comments that stated “Free George Zimmerman.” The first production of the buttons was 30,000 based on a market demand of 25,000.
After making the buttons available on ebay, Amazon, and spreading the word on the aforementioned news articles and blog sites, we received orders for 5.
Our marketing researchers humbly apologize, now realizing that the 25,000 comments they read were all posted by 5 individuals.
That is why the buttons are given away with the Bobbie the Racist dolls.
Hopefully, this clears up any misunderstandings.
From the desk of racerrodig
Xena :
That does clear the picture significantly as to why FogenPhoole Productions is losing money. Our only sure answer will be a large run of the “FogenPhoole Cell Mate Kit”
Marketing is suggesting several versions of this kit. The 1st version includes the PhatFogen dressed in the blue ill fitting suit, a bullet proof vest that is undersized, a piece of paper he can’t figure out how to fold, along with 2 different colored prison jumpsuits, a pair of hand cuffs and manacles and the best part is that Engineering has developed a very unique feature.
When you purchase the kit, the facial expression has a smirk and as time goes on, the smirk changes into a frightened look. After about 3 weeks, the doll crys and pees his pants.
The 2nd version has all of the features of the 1st but includes a Cell Mate named “Bubba” and when you press the FogenPhoole doll’s talk feature button 3 times withing 5 seconds, he says “I murdered Trayvon”
Thoughts ??
From the recently paid desk of Cielo62-
I will make an investment to purchase 20,000 units of the 1st style (Bubba jokes are so old in Texas). Franchises will be set up in Austin where our thinking (non-politician) minds reside. They should sell very well, especially in the UT campus. Skip the magnets. Texas is already overweight; too many of these folks here in abundance. The Robbie the Racist dolls might do well in Houston, Beaumont and El Paso. Personally I like the voodoo doll ideas. A dozen pins should be provided to better sell it. Think New Orleans.
I see several lucrative markets, but outside of the blue states. Red,blue; who cares? I’m thinking GREEN!
Greedily, From the Cluttered Desk of Cielo62
Sent from my iPod
From the desk of racerrodig
C62 :
Our Shipping department will be in contact with your co.shortly. We also have an argumentative toy that claims to be on the fence. It seems to be devoid of personality however and the packaging needs to be redone. The logo looks like a retarded cartoon charachter. Needless to say, that one has many issues. It’s doomed to failure.
We are very pleased that you have jumped on board…..could we interest you in any of the left over TugBoat toys ?
racerrodig
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK of Cielo62~ Mr. racer, I am afraid that we must decline the Tugboat items. I foresee that they will be suitable for the submarket, like flea markets or dollar stores. Could they be re-packaged and sold as dog squeaky toys? Once dog lovers hear of GZs intent to actually shoot a dog, I think they will be amenable to letting their dog have a go at a dog hater. Food for thought…
From the desk of racerrodig
C62 I see your point. Maybe we can repackage the TugBoat line and make it look more Afro – Peruvian, just a thought.
We are waiting for the 3rd recipe from SheLie for that “3 Easy Bake Oven Recipes” cookbook. It seems Shelie has cooking hot dogs as 2 of the recipes, which will constitute a problem, even for the intended market targeted.
We have lost all track on the Joe “Rent a Friend” doll, not that they provided anything of interest anyway. We did plan on having this doll packaged as a set with the Nancy Grace set.
Our Marketing Dept has informed us that a competitor is test marketing a Fogen in College set. It has several outfits, construction boots, several sets of admission applications that are marked “DENIED” and has a graduation party set up.
Tycomess has released a remote control SUV with a scale Fogen in the drivers seat and a dozen Mexicans on a sidewalk and storefront prop.
Now I came up with a really fine item….a FogenPhoole Board Game. To choose who is Fogen any Afro – Peruvians get 1st choice.As many as 8 people can play. I will give you the details latter, but it is in pre – production as we speak.
racerrodig
from the desk of fauxmccoy
i’d like to add that i am working on an adroid app called ‘what would george do?’ i will add it to the bin when it is completed. the basic gist of the app would be to ask it any question and like a magic 8 ball of old, you will get a variety of lame ass suggestions a la george.
From the desk of racerrodig
So if one asks “Would you do this the same way” the answer could come up as”…..we’ve had some break ins…”
And if I ask “….are you following him….” that could be “…my wife is a mess…”
So “…and what is your name….” would be “….shit, he ran…”
Now I’ll give you the answer and you see what the ?? is….ready
“It was Gods plan”
FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62~ TO: Fauxy~ Hmmm intriguing app, BUT honestly, from a marketing standpoint, all GZ ever says is “I don’t know”, “I don’t remember, I have ADHD” and “HE did it!” Not enough responses for a Dumb Cue Ball app.
From the desk of racerrodig
If you play the tape of his 2nd interview backwards, Fogen says
“I murdered Trayvon……it was all Marks idea”
On the 3rd tape at the very end Fogen says Robbie the racists is useless.
At the beginning he says very clearly ”
SheiLie can’t cook…..she suck big time…….Call Dominoes
From a padded room at the funny farm:
Hahahhahohohohahahaha lol Salads… Salads… Eat more Salads hahaha.
From the Desk of the Zimmerman legal defense fund
“Since March 3, and as of April 11, the Zimmerman Legal Defense Fund Trust raised $14,458.63. Current liabilities exceed cash on hand by about $10,000. The Zimmerman defense is running at a DEFICIT, and it is unclear how the defense will be funded moving forward.”
THIS:
Should read: “From the Toilet of the Zimmerman legal defense fund”
Please correct your notes accordiingly, thank you.
From the desk of racerrodig
You got that right Lonnie…..a toilet and nothing less, well, maybe a cesspool, but nothing but crap no matter what.
Perhaps if we are lucky, Omara and Fogen will both lose their cool and temper (you can see it in both their faces that they are bottling up anger, they mad, son), and then start blaming each other for why their scheme is not working, and then watch them both fist fight in the court room
Even though Omara is wrinkled and a lot older, I think Omara would kick Fogen’s ass, and I base this on absolutely nothing LOL
I have lots of Desks in the garage. They are all wooden and a product of the best of US craftsmanship. $1 per desk. JUN already have one. Anyone want a Desk?
From the desk of racerrodig
So it would read
“From the desk of racerrodig, the former desk of SearchingMind?”
Where do I sent my $1.00 ??
Searching Mind- ooh! Oooh! I do! I do!
Sent from my iPod
I do believe that O’Mara took this case on not because he believed that he would get paid well for it, but rather because he believed that he could win it, make a big splash and also make a name for himself in terms of using social media in service of his client.
All this before he had seen much in the way of evidence.
He bet on the wrong horse. Not only is it not a winnable case, but his attempts at using social media and a horde of amateur sleuths has also turned sour. It may well go into the books, but not as a case that established new pathways in the collection of evidence online, or the use of social media to impeach witnesses (and the victim), but as a collossal failure to do so. The new frontier is littered with all kinds of junk and at the end of the day a good bit of it is either insubstantial or inadmissible (not to mention the product of raving lunatics).
He not only stands to lose his shorts (financially speaking), but instead of establishing a rep, he will be losing one that he had begun to establish in doing TV commentary for the Anthony case.
Oh, well.
And according to media reports, his wife is ready for the case to be over! Wives mean business!
To the Desk Of Racerrodig
Racer, you and JUN already have your own Desks. I think Malisha and Xena need their own desks too. Tzar and Lonnie also need their own desk, but will be getting one with three (not four) “legs”. Everybody here must get his or her own desk.
@SearchingMind
Hahaha. It just so happens that my desk is a 6′ x 5′ wooden desk, given to me by an attorney who had it in his garage back in 1991. Nevertheless, I prefer “From the Office of ….” that removes images of it being a memo or note of reminder. 🙂
From the desk of racerrodig
Xena, the “From the desk of…” is our way of insulting Robbie the Racist et la for that same crap.
Mine should actually be “From the workbench of racerrodig” but if I can piss any FogenPhooles off, Mission Accomplished….count tron in on that. I see he wussed out. Now maybe I should sign my posts like he does.
racerrodig………as if you didn’t know from the part that says
“racerrodig says” and “Leave a reply to racerrodig”
@Racer,
RZJr’s swill should be sent:
“From the Greyhound Depot locker of RJZimmerman, Jr.”
In reality it should be:
“From the sewer lift station of RJZimmerman, Jr.” but the city won’t let him claim occupancy of public property.
(this communication sent from the Orinoco depths of PiranhaMom)
From the desk of racerrodig
PiranhaMom :
Are we sure he actually has a locker ? Maybe it is actually “From the Freeway Underpass of Robbie the Racist” ??
@ searchingmind
just so you know, faux has a charming vintage danish modern number from which to dispatch missives of varying importance. said danish modern desk is quite cluttered at the moment, so i also have a lovely bent wood ‘breakfast in bed’ table that converts to a simple, bedside desk when stood on it’s end and it holds a laptop quite nicely. while i appreciate your more than generous desk distribution plan, i have my own needs covered.
from the desk(s) of fauxy 🙂
From the desk of racerrodig
Kool faux !! I have a vintage trash picked, year unknown, heavy as hell, steel desk. It has a stylish rubber inset as the entire top surface, battleship gray in color with 6 drawers and matching left & right pull out trays. The lock has no key, but hey, it’s an imperfect world.
from the patio table of fauxmccoy
ahhhh, the weather in northern california is perfect right now as i type 🙂
From the desk of racerrodig
It’s been raining on & off here and at times, I can’t see 100 feet from here !!
From the desk of racerrodig
I actually like falling off my stool laughing real hard !! Really, I do.
I have this real awesome set of tools so if anyone’s desk wobbles, let me know.
From the Desk of Lonnie Starr:
Still here trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear! 😆
@ TSTAS
“Wives mean business”? hmmmm, I am not very sure about that. I am thinking that it may have finally dawned on Shellie that GZ ain’t anymore gonna “have a good life after this” – because the money has stopped flowing in, while GZ is an embattled “fugitive”. I am wondering if Shellie will still means business and want the case over with if tens of thousands of hard dollars were still flowing in? Oh, wives and money. No money, no wife. A man without money is damned. Really.
Jun, there is evidence that O’Mara could kick Fogen’s ass.
1. Fogen said, and the whole SPD believed, that he got his ass whupped by a surprised, tired, unsuspecting 17-year-old kid without a weapon;
2. Fogen said that the whole time Trayvon Martin was “mounted” on him [he really used that term — creepy weird], he did not try to use his hands in his own defense ONCE until he used them to draw his gun and shoot; and
3. Fogen’s ass is in a sling anyway.
From the desk of racerrodig
As to you’re #2, remember FogenPhoole said he forgot all about his gun until Black Dynamite Slim tried to get it first. Hey, lets not forget those important facts !!
So if Trayvon hadn’t seen Fogen’s little piece while mounted
( A hahahahahahaha) on him, Fogen wouldn’t be
1) Alive
2) Charged with Murder in the 2nd degree
3) Broke
4) Unemployed
5) 200 lbs. overweight
6) Looking at a lengthy prison stay
7) Getting all those skeletons out of the family closet
8) Laughed at by everyone with common sense
9) Feeling the need to make all these lies up
10) Giving O’ Mara a stage to show he’s truly a Moron
Just sayin’………
FROM THE DESK OF RACHAEL S
Yes, I got my own desk yesterday as soon as I read the letter. But mine is in caps – Just like Jr.’s
Doesn’t it make me look special and superior?
From the TV tray of Lynn
My family is seriously yelling from the other end of the house to stop laughing so loud.
Every “From the fill-in-the-blank of” cracks me up no matter how many I scroll and read.
I am assuming then, that it must be irritating as H-E-double hockey sticks to the Zidiots that troll here.
Therefore I am joining in!
I’m no expert or professional type so I was thinking maybe cubicle instead of desk or office…then I looked at my laptop and decided to keep it real.
From the desk of racerrodig
To the TV tray of Lynn :
Please be advised I’m actually lying as my computer is on my shop counter. I just thought it would be fun to insult Robbie the Racist and Mummzie with a “From the desk of…”: but I believe someone else here did it 1st. I still say we all make fools of ourselves like tron by signing our posts as if the “Lynn says” and “Leave a Reply to Lynn” isn’t enough.
racerrodig hey tron Ppffffftttttt !
To: The desk of racerrodig
From: The office of Xena
I am in receipt of your comment posted to Lynn on April 12, 2013 where you wrote:
Please be advised that it was Rachael’s talent, humor, and creativity is responsible for the subject. It trust that you find this information beneficial to proceed accordingly.
Regards,
X
cc: Hercules
From the desk of racerrodig
Xena : Thank you for jogging my memory. I have been having so much uninterrupted fun here I forgot who did it first and apologize for that.
Good video response to Gladys Zimmerman open letter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leIrXytmnpo
It was very “GOOD” indeed! this woman told it like it was and, she didn’t leave anything unsaid about this *DYSFUNCTIONAL* low life family, who have no morals between them. I agree with everything she said, even down to calling this murdering POS the “B” word, because that is exactly what he is along with a few other things. I loved every minute of her video and, I hope to see more of her. thanks for sharing this with us.
Did you notice Judy Collins on stage?
Here she is twenty years earlier with a ’60’s classic.
Classic song and great here!
been years since I’ve heard that song. Isn’t Sylvia Joan Baez’ s sister?
I think the appellate court is going to dismiss and leave the defense sucking wind again!
Yep! The wayward wind …
and the sooner, the better. Bernie isn’t in an incredible rush to add their two cents, and the decision will be done before trial. It will be a significant day for the defense when they fail to turn over the decisions of Judge Nelson and can’t move to get her tossed from her bench.
Can’t wait!!!
Looks like Mama Zim took opportunity to turn focus onto her just when the HOA settlement put another nail in GZ’s coffin.
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head!
Yeah, and when you hit the nail on the head it gets driven more solidly into the coffin…
@Professor. Please check your email.
Without getting to read all of the responses, and the ones I did read are all fabulous, this is an incredible post Professor. Tremendous tribute to Trayvon’s family with which to stay focused on.
I doubt that letter was written by anyone other than “Racist Robbie”
The unmitigated gall to state that crap……I cannot say what I really think about them at this point, the professor will ban me for my language. I’ll ask God for his forgiveness just making those thoughts, even thought they are deserved.
LMAO at Racist Robbie
I bet you Fogen Jr wrote the letter and claimed his mom wrote it because he knows all the media conglomerates are ignoring him and his spiels
Maybe Fogen himself wrote the letter…I have always thought that he tweets sometimes on Jr’s twitter. When Jr first opened his twitter account he said it was the family acct.
If those in the media would stop with the following his ass around and, sticking a camera in his ugly face, I’ll bet he will only have his twitter account to use in order to get his poison out to the public. they use the media to suit themselves and, when things are not going so well and the media reports something that does not go in Foge’s favor, then they start downing the very media that put them in the news on a regular basis.
These people make me sick to no avail and, they just need to stfu and stop blaming everybody else for what Fogen did to himself, when he murdered an innocent child.
Vote in the Webby awards for MillionHoodiesforTrayvon
http://pv.webbyawards.com/nominees/social/social-content-and-marketing/public-service-activism
Do you think, or is it even possible, that the HOA negotiations contained evidence that is not yet public? By “evidence”, I simply mean information that appears viable and probable.
I LOVE the term “script full of lies”!
Gladys did not write that letter. She has been shielded from the media, remember? (Or confined, which is my take.)
I actually missed my train stop because I was too absorbed in this entry. Had to wait another 30 minutes for my bus LOL. Not a prob at all, of course.
Doubt it, just the facts, m’am, as it’s agreed to without alluding to any admission of guilt on their part. If anything were in the agreement, OS saw it in the first hours it was not sealed.
Both sides would have to agree on the wording of the agreement, especially the HOA’s insurance company who wants this NWK to go away.
I meant just the negotiations that lead to the settlement (not the actual settlement agreement).
My last post had a bad link so is in moderation but heads up to the Martin’s response to Gladys on clickorlando.com
(esp. 2nd paragraph in the quote!!)
video platformvideo managementvideo solutionsvideo player
That link didn’t work– sorry!
Clickorlando.com has a new video and story in response to the Gladys letter.
Instead, here’s the story page link.
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Trayvon-Martin-s-family-fires-back-after-mother-of-George-Zimmerman-s-letter/-/1637132/19714736/-/lfh7wo/-/index.html
The Zimmerman family is either:
a) Too stupid to research the case with an open mind.
b) Monsters who are protecting a monster.
Since we already know Fogen killed Trayvon and his cousin has already accused him of molestation, I would lean toward B.
Somewhere inbetween is a possibility. People are complex.
@ay2z: Thanks for posting the link to clickorlando.com’s video and article. I read some of the comments following the article, and most of those from GZ’s defenders are unbelievably vile.
I scrolled down and read a few and I mean only a few. Disgusting.
You know, if “Gladys Zimmerman” REALLY wanted her son to have a fair trial and REALLY cared about ANYTHING, she would tell the racists and those wishing Travon’s family ill to STFU. Once again, I DO believe that these “people” (and I use the term loosely) are responsible for this crap because they could tell those supporting them to cut the crap and they would, but since they don’t they obviously ARE the VERY racists and horrible nasty people they say they aren’t because people who are not racist or do not wish ill upon the dead and their families would tell those who do to STFU!!!!!
There sure are some mean as hell people in this country. those who support the murderer of a child, have done nothing but talk bad about the victim, his family and AA in general. you know the coming together as a nation on 9/11 was very short lived and, it wasn’t really sincere when you see stuff such as this happening in this country.
They have every right to support a murderer all they want to but, why do they feel the need to smear, slander and defame this child’s memory and reputation? nobody should have to bear witness to this bigoted hate coming from a bunch of *POINTY HEADS* hiding behind a keyboard. I can’t wait for this trial to be over and, for those who answered the call of the dog whistle, will go back to their caves.
Ok, Zimmerman’s lawyers, who know already the county court clerk will unseal the settlement in 10 days, have come out with the story that they want the settlement unsealed.
Then of course, when it’s unsealed, they will somehow take credit.
According to OS,
Are they desperate or what???!
These are not parents who put a dollar value on the life of their son, it’s insulting to say there could possibly be any potential bias in this case caused by the settlement terms, it’s nothing to them compared to the loss of their son, nothing compared to the value of his life.
If there were an atom of bias attributed to gain of money, the loss of their child overshadows and dilutes that atom into oblivion.
Those lawyers to suggest this, are insulting the intelligence of readers, and if they pull this at trial, I would think jurors would be disgusted and insulted also.
A juror has to cast a glance to the family, see Jahvaris,with his parents, and they will know withuut doubt, this fine young man, brother of Trayvon, is valued, loved and respected by his parents. A son is not a dollar value, a commodity. Fogen might not have the intelligence or humanity to understand this.
To me, the settlement is a MAJOR warning to all HOA’s and NW volunteers NOT to be a party to this kind of tragedy so that this never, never happens again!
@yahtc
Yes. The settlement, while probably not separating damages, would consider that it includes punitive damages which would enjoin HOA’s and NW volunteers from doing things that led to the killing of an unarmed 17 year old high school junior.
Here’s the motion – aren’t they clever?
Click to access mot_to_unseal.pdf
Fogen might, but a helluva lotta Fogen supporters don’t get it.
They jumped on the bandwagon because this was a high profile case, what they did not consider was the law, aside from whatever suited them to believe, and they decided to believe a liar who would fail miserably, to be poster grown-ass man for SYG or self-defense.
LOL Omara’s pretty damn foolish
Was he not on TV asking for a million dollars? Was not him and the defendant asking for money on TV and the internet? How about the family of the defendant, would they also not have a bias?
To prove bias, you would have to show lies in order to change the case, and as far as I can see, the Trayvon family have not lied in order to change the outcome of the case nor has it been shown at all
All that will be expected of the Trayvon family is to talk about Trayvon at trial and for the mother to identify the voice on the 911 calls, which almost all the witnesses have identified as the kid, or at least the person who was shot
Of course the family of Trayvon is interested in the outcome of the fucking case… the defendant killed their fucking kid… almost every parent in the world would be interested in the outcome of a case if their kid was killed by the fucking defendant… bias proof however, there is none for the Trayvonites
TELL IT!
HA HA HA I think the Crump “here’s the settlement agreement but keep it sealed, OK?” move was equivalent to “And please don’t throw me into Mr. O’Mara’s briarpatch…”
HAHAHAHAHA!! Just waiting here, Brer Ben, just waiting.
From the Desk of Lonnie Starr to the Desk of Malisha:
Just wait until MOM sees what they put in that settlement document! Remember he started it! What a fool, he should be fighting to keep it sealed.
Now that he’s moved to have it unsealed he’s firmly on the hook. If he tries to reverse himself, and the clerk unseals it anyway, he’ll look especially foolish for having turned tail and tried to run.
When it is unsealed, the language and material that it contains could very well horrify the defense. Hahahha.
From the desk of Malisha (which is actually somebody else’s desk but Malisha’s sitting here all the same) to the desk of Lonnie Starr:
Yowza I cannot WAIT! Just sittin’ here at somebody’s desk waiting, Brer Ben, just waiting! 😆 😆 😆
Interesting Malisha, Brer Ben, I wouldn’t have understood that if briar patch did not draw my close attention and sent me on a quite interesting excursion into American culture.
thanks for that word, I love these type of words. 😉
I just posted this to a Z supporter:
.
.
.
ric,
You wrote:
……………..”Without evidence of George “knowing“ where Trayvon was ultimately headed to, and there is none, by any reasonable standard, Trayvon was merely, to any reasonable observer, “evading” GZ by moving from one known location on the complex to another unknown location on the complex, from GZ‘s perspective.”
.
You must remember that early on in the event of that night, George says that he “left” Trayvon at Taaffee’s house and drove to the clubhouse area. To me that says that George knew he would NOT “lose” Trayvon. To me that says that George, in fact, did know where Trayvon was headed to:
.
Zimmerman…Right there, right there, in front of 1460.
Investigator…on the sidewalk or on the grass ?
Zimmerman…no, on the grassy area
Investigator..On the grassy are. So about right in front of where the car is?
Zimmermanm…Yes, sir
Inspector… And then you
Zimmerman…I drove past him, and I went to the clubhouse up here on the right hand side
Invesitgator…And parked up there?
Zimmerman….Yes, sir
Investigator…. And what was his…Naturally he left…he caught up to you up here, or…
Zimmerman….Yes
.
ric, because you believe everything George says (that is, that George first saw Trayvon at Taaffe’s), this is a problem for you.
So, just how did George know that he was not going to “lose” Trayvon?
I say that it is because he did, in fact, know where Trayvon was headed.
ric, you are the one who is stuck (left holding the bag) with all of gz’s statements.
If George left Trayvon at Taaffe’s and drove to the clubhouse, as HE says, where he parked and made the NEN call reporting Trayvon to the dispatcher…….how in the world did gz KNOW that Trayvon was walking casually looking at houses??
………Zimmerman: Yes, I called the non-emergency line and when I got through, I parked at the clubhous and they asked me where I was and I told them the clubhouse and I think I gave them the address of the clubhouse.
NEN call:
………NEN dispatcher: Sanford Police Department……
Zimmerman: Hey we’ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there’s a real suspicious guy, uh, it’s Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle.
This guy looks like he’s up to no good, or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about. [00:25]
I think the reality is that Z never parked at the clubhouse. He was actively following Trayvon. all during the phone call. It is really, really difficult to remove Z’s narrative. But, if one looks at the forensics, as if one had never heard Z’s story, and tries to reconstruct what happened, things come out differently.
Then go back and listen to Z. telling the police, “no, I stopped here to call.” He knew he couldn’t tell them up front he was already stalking the kid when he called.
FROM THE DESK OF RACHAEL S
So Sundance finally drops his big bomb – sort of. Not that he ever really says anything.
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/04/11/persistence-pays-off-big-time-8-months-of-research-work-finally-delivers/#comments
What a pompous azz. All theatre, no substance.
I don’t knpw. They are all pretty excited about it over there.
It doesn’t take much to stir those folks up. Remember all the other shiz-stirring antics that tend to be more imaginary than real! SD is pretty good at the preliminaries of research, then he goes off half-cocked into the stratosphere.
I don’t get it. Everyone knew ages ago that SPD had made inquiries into Trayvon’s past, including school records.
SOP to my mind.
What does Sundance think he has found?
From the desk of racerrodig
“What does Sundance think he has found?”
Better yet, where the hell is that GIANT case busting revelation he promised on Sunday ?? The one that started with “…just got off the phone(y)…”
I’m sure he’s about to ,post some more fairytales.
Yeah, Rach. The echoes of that big bomb is still roaring around here. The ground is quaking violently and the windows are shattering.
LOL – I thought that was one of the little 3. quakes we have almost daily around here!
They’re ridiculous. Whatever issues the M-DSPD may have/had, internally, in no way applies to, mitigates or changes the events in Sanford, FL on 2/26. The contention that Trayvon must be a saint/angel in order to not be culpable for his own murder, is absurd on it’s face.
Then again, pretty much everything they’ve ever stated about this case is absurd on it’s face, so I’m not surprised.
You know, Nef, we will keep our eyes on the ball and remain steadfast in our resolve – until the day we will hear the following words:
“… As to the charge of second degree murder, WE the jury find the defendant GUILTY! …”
At the pronouncement of those words thoes CTH-gangsters shall begin to hold their peace. Forever.
I wish. They’ll whine about Fogen’s railroading for the next 25 years.
From the desk of racerrodig…..
As if they discovered something new. This was made public a year ago. So once again a big “Duuuuuuuhhhhh of the week” to those Zidiots who actually think this matters.
The fun reading is one of them claiming the “heart phone” is not Trayvon’s…..I guess it’s a plant by the entire Anti – Fogen group?
Zidiots…….can’t live with ’em…….eh, we’ll leave it go at that.
Have a Great Day All !!
This is Sunprance logic
Trayvon = no criminal record = biggest thug in the country
Fogen = has lengthy criminal record = history of violence, including molestation and attempted rape = most decent and innocent man ever and trustworthy too
Trayvon = bought candy and walking home = up to no good
Fogen = stalking a kid at night time with a gun = decent American
Be as it may, I do not make this up
Thank You
From the desk of Jun, the great, smarter than all Fogens
From the desk of racerrodig
Jun……….you’re killing me !! killing me I tell ya.
FROM UNDER MY DESK, where I fell laughing
@racer @Jun
From the desk of racerrodig
CL :
I hope you are OK, and no permanent injuries nor damage has resulted from this incident. Have you’re people call my people about any potential settlement, I’ll advise tron about it, and we’ll do lunch.
From the desk of Jun
The only thing Sundance has dropped, is his brain
But what can you expect from a guy who has done research papers on
1) Omara is a bad guy
2) Blacks are bad guys
3) Blacks have too much power
4) The Libee-roll Media is giving blacks too much power
5) The Libee-roll Media is now controlled by the Chinese, with Jews as the right hand men
6) The power of lies and propaganda
7) Obama is framing Fogen
From the desk of racerrodig
“7) Obama is framing Fogen” This is the most obvious one needless to say. Such a tragedy that the President would say all of those things. It’s just like that “Railroading” issue.
Wait, what am I saying…..Fogen tried to frame Trayvon…..Duhhh !
Followed by the Zidiot Nation…..lets keep the facts straight !
About right.
From the desk of racerrodig
Did Sundanceshithead “…just get off the phone…” on this one too???
Wait, the Jews are “the right hand men” of the Chinese?
How come?
If you stand in China and face Jerusalem, you have to point with your LEFT HAND.
How can Jews be “right-hand men” to the Chinese?
Sundance LIED!
Ok, I’m confused. Aside from all the silly conspiracy theories, what exactly is this supposed to be delivering?
And don’t those people realize that when we make fun of them, we shout “WOLVERINES” because that’s a line from a ridiculous movie from the 80s where Patrick Swayze defeated the Nicaraguan army after it successfully INVADED THE USA?
Back on topic, I don’t speak wingnut. Can anyone translate?
Wolverines was also the mascot for Trayvon’s middle school, or so one of the Treestumpers said. I’ve not tried to research that one.
From the desk of racerrodig
The movie “Red Dawn” isn’t real….but it was on “The Military Channel” last month and they’re all real stories. Swayze isn’t a youth, former Quarterback, war hero ??
But you’re right about yelling “WOLVERINES” at them……with facts raised high over our heads !!
Sure he says something. He says that the police were interested in finding out how bad and awful the victim of that crime really WAS. They still can’t get over the fact that his parents aren’t jumping up and down with eagerness to fill in all the sordid blanks about the wrongness and terribleness of their son — so they can be impartial witnesses to his murder.
SMDH!! (and WMDA) 😳 😆
I have just finished reading it. I think the documents are quite interesting. Although not quite from the nutties perspective. I would suspend my judgment at this point in time. Seems the investigation are not concluded at this point in time.
There are obviously two sides to this, on one hand the former chief Charles Hurley who triggered an internal investigation into possible leaks behind Francis Robles, infamous jewelery article, the more „complicated picture of Trayvon Martin“, which uncovered that the practiced release of police matters may be in need of a closer look due to contradictions between law and police procedures. In spite of the fact they vigorously deny to have passed on the files to the Miami Herald
On the other hand there is a group of „seasoned“ officers, detectives, majors or whatever that are paying back with the charge of bullying and sexual harassment against Charles Hurley who brought all this over them, and he seems to have been in big troubles due to that. Something similar seems to happen to Suzy Milano, the former head of mental health for schools.
There is a not quite functioning case assignment software that mysteriously makes cleared cases pop up on the an officer’s screen while he handles the release of documents about Trayvon Martin to Randy Smith of SPD. Possible, yes, sure, but odd coincidence nevertheless. I have to read two depositions again more closely. This is said to happen occasionally and there have been extensive talks about the problems with the IT people in charge already.
This is a quote from an article of the lady that sent a resolute FOIA request demanding immediate realize of all police files about Trayvon Martin on March 21, 2012. Her request was denied. Seems she was an intern at the Miami Herald at the time, maybe still is, Laura Isensee, 9/19/2012:
In a nutshell, these two Milano and Hurley somehow conspired to have students with potentially criminal behavior treated only psychologically, the Baker Act meant to help students with suicidal or homicidal tendencies and not deviancy generally was somehow misused by them in this context.
What complicates matters is that the police members originally confronted with an internal “leak investigation” due to Hurley’s actions are now in the process of paying back via harassment, or sexual harassment charges. Oddly enough not only the former chief of school police but also Suzy Milano is accused of harassment and bad employee treatment, and has left the state for a new job now.
What some of the officers clearly suspect is that this „special treatment“ was especially meant to help black students to the disadvantage of Whites, Latinos and Asians, which admittedly makes me suspend judgment.
Laura Isensee, seems to have been the journalist mainly involved with these allegations. Were exactly Robles did get the files from at this point remains unanswered. Strictly we have not heard about SPD leaks either at this point in time. In any case according to the documents Laura Isensee did not get them when she urgently inquired for them in March 21, 2012. Interesting date.
@leander
as i posted previously, i found that IT issue glaring, as the computer system used is designed and maintained by the company who employes my personal IT geek, otherwise known as my husband. we looked closely at the documentation regarding the IT problem — the resolution number gave my husband some clues. he is looking into the situation for me, as he is able, but does state that there are serious issues with the software and that nobody (either the end users or guys like my husband who have to fix these errors) is fond of it. i hope to be able to report more.
fauxy, I’ll check for your comments concerning the topic. Not least to find out what exactly you have in mind with the above. I better don’t pretend I am up to date with everything written on this long, long thread.
I understand there is a problem. Maybe not only the software but also a bad network design/structure? That’s were I encountered the most peculiar stuff. E.g. series of the same document floating through the network in different stages of completion. If you opened the document you could get one from some days earlier, drove me nuts before I studied the phenomenon more closely and contacted IT. …
faux, I don’t know if this will help. mr. cracker also posted using a backdoor to get information. The only ones I know of that uses ‘back door’ term have been hackers. I don’t believe that he got the info legitimately. I posted earlier he said its at scribd.com, using my search engines nothing comes up on scribd, its just leads right back to mr. cracker. While on scribd earlier nothing come up ‘FOIA dump’. Part of it was an IAU investigation, don’t think its for public view.
@ ic2fools
something about it seemed rather hinky to me as well. husband (former hacker, now turned good guy) and i are looking into it. if i do discover anything, i will be sure to post.
May I add mr. cracker posted FOIA is the back door to the information. My understanding that he is accessing the information legally, using FOIA as the back door. Correct me if I am wrong.
thanks faux, I need to correct myself, I meant to say illegally.
What caught my eye was how he worded his reply, if it was done legitimately he would have said sending a request to FOIA is the only way and using the term ‘back door’.
I also believe that he is so consumed by that attention he gets with his bombshells he would do anything. I will be glad when tree stump is cut down and the roots are destroyed so it can’t grow back.
Also, one of the best tweets ever from someone called Philly Al Berkman –
“FYI, I didnt think GZ was a racist until his family &co workers said so.Then I heard .@rzimmermanjr & was sure!”
That is a very good point!!!
And every time Jr. opens his big fat zimmermouth, he just makes it worse and worse.
I was giving GZ the benefit of the doubt about being racist until I listened to his advocates, specifically Taaffe and Junior. Junior uses dog whistles that are unmistakeable.
Dog whistles? He practically puts up billboards with an arrow pointing, “racist over here!”
@lurker
LOL!! Okay. I have to give you that one. 🙂
Yeah. If NBC had put one-minute ads on TV for a whole year saying “George Zimmerman is a racist” over and over, it would not have convinced me as much as his family’s comments from Day-1 have convinced me beyond the shadow of a doubt.
From the desk of Jun
True. The Fogen Jr “We are not racists and Fogen is not a child killer” tour proved otherwise
Dear Mrs. Zimmerman http://mettawordlife83.tumblr.com/
BRAVO!!
@Two sides
SWEET!!!!!!!!!!!
A terrific letter. The Zimmerman parents are, indeed, remiss.
Well, maybe a little ugly – the letter could have been a little deeper and more articulate, but I thought it was relevant anyway.
I found many of the photos with slogans below the letter to be… not admirable.
Nope. There’s a lot of garbage getting posted all over the web by both sides.
Omara knows he has know case,what he is doing now is feeding the raciest to keep them full so they can send more money. As long as he keep bashing Crump and DD the raciest get happy and send more money.If these raciest had any sense they would of known when Omara did not go through with immune hearing it was all over for Fogen. I have this sick feeling that they will have a plea deal,because fogen is guilty as hell.
They know he’s guilty they just don’t care.
You are absolutely right kllypyn. they know he is guilty but, since he murdered an AA child, that is the only thing they see. as for the defense lawyer, he should be ashamed of himself for inciting a bunch of bigoted racist, to the point of them harassing two witnesses in this case and, doxing two people who have nothing at all to do with this case.
From where I’m seeing things, O’mara is guilty of a lot of criminal acts himself, concerning this case.
“As long as he keep bashing Crump and DD the raciest get happy and send more money”.
Right, Ty Flair.
I use to hold O’Mara in high regard. What you describe is what made me to complet lose all modicum of respect I had for him. His treatment of Mr. Crump is racist and demeans the legal profession. His handling of DeeDee is just unnecessarily ugly.
The good news though is that O’Mara has been exposed. People know him for who/what he is: dishonest and a creep. And he won’t be able to fool anyone anymore.
SM When BDLR said in court fogen’s web sight was encouraging advice from the treehouse people or something to that effect Omara said he doesn’t have the time to go on the sight and doesn’t go there but it seems to me he certainly allows or encourages his office people to do so.
Anyone else having problems reading some of the post?
The type disappears when I scroll down to continue reading or the response is blank with multiple icons in the window.
Or maybe it’s just my computer.
yup… I’m havim trouble too.. Somebody throwing monkey wrenches in this blog… IMHO..
Excellent points. Thank you.
Sometimes an extra pair of editing eyes are useful, especially when there has been a lot of cut and paste and rework. 🙂
Professor, you refer to the HOA as Fogen’s employer.
Am not sure how to legally define an employer. Certainly the board gave their stamp of approval to his watchman forays. But doesn’t “employ” generally imply compensation is involved? Despite Fogen’s suspected grandiose security business plans, is there any evidence the HOA paid this creep for what he did?
I believe the word was used figuratively.
@Trained Observer
Not at all. That question has come up in numerous cases involving workman’s comp, violation of EEO, and ADA involving temporary agency employees and volunteers. It has also come up with insurance agencies when volunteers use their privately owned vehicles in the course of performing volunteer duties when having an accident.
Federal labor laws generally apply and they provide a list of requirements to determine what constitutes an employee.
Good to know, thanks, Zena.
@ Xena
“Not at all”? I think folks should not be answering (legal) question(s) they do not know the answer(s) to – to avoid misinformation. Besides, there are people who come to this blog to learn. That ought not be forgotten.
@SearchingMind
What constitutes an employee is generally a question that comes up in federal court, in which the circuits are divided. Limiting what constitutes an employee to being a person receiving compensation would be incorrect. Once knowing that, and if anyone is interested, independent research is required is they want to learn more.
You are right, Trained Observer. Our Professor misspoke (or as Groans said, was speaking “figuratively”/analogically).
“Employ” within the meaning of the US Labor Law ALWAYS imply – among others – “compensation”. According to SCOTUS, it is incorrect “to stamp all persons as employees who without any express or implied compensation agreement might work for their own advantage on the premises of another.”
GZ was NOT an employee of the HOA.
Individuals/legal persons can be held accountable for the wrongful actions of anyone (say an agent) working/acting on their behalf and/or on their premises. Whether or not that agent is an employee, volunteer or something else, is not (directly) relevant.
Monetary reward is not the only compensation recognized at law, there is also “other valuable considerations”, which can be considered a form of compensation. GZ was being compensated with the honors he sought and obtained by having them consent to award him the title.
That’s a good one, Lonnie. Plus GZ also got to act as the neighbourhood’s top Sheriff who was both feared and respected. GZ was the ‘go-to top security brass of the neighbourhood. And he revelled in it. It provided him comfort and satisfaction. So, yeah, abstract values such as honors, being feared and respected by all – can provide better compensation than say money or other materials. (Don’t take this seriously, folks. We are joking).
While you are joking, google up what the military has to say about medals and honors. They are real and palpable compensations. Do you not know what an honor it is to be a “dollar a year man”?
Yeah Lonnie. Medals, honors and ribbons can be- and are indeed real and palpable compensations and have the same effects and functions as tangible compensations. You know, I was doing shopping the other day and saw an ex-Navy Seal paying for his groceries with his honors, medal and/or ribbons. I approached him and asked him how he get to do that. He told me that he even pays his rent with his honors. And he is never out of medals and ribbons let alone honors which are permanently attached to his name. His medals and ribbons are taxed by the government and he pays the taxes with his honors. I thought myself: ‘oh wao, how wonderful. This is paradise’.
Then I sent an email to Mark Zuckerberg and asked him the following question: “Mr. Zuckerberg, how come a billionaire like you make just one dollar a year?” You know what he said me? Well Lonnie, you wont believe your ears. Have a sit first because it ain’t nice what this guy said to me. Zuckerberg told me: “because I am smart and the American people are a s**kers”!
@SearchingMind. The U.S. Dept. of Labor provides that Individuals who volunteer or donate their services, usually on a part-time basis, for public service, religious or humanitarian objectives, not as employees and without contemplation of pay, are not considered employees of the religious, charitable or similar non-profit organizations that receive their service.
Would you say that the HOA qualifies as a public service, religious, or humanitarian non-profit agency?
@ Xena
You do raised good questions, Xena. I appreciate it. At issue is what constitutes “employment”.
Two elements must be present for there to exist an employer-employee relationship, thus employment:
a. Superior-subordinate relationship (the employee must be subordinate to the employer who decides which labor is to be performed by the employee and the scope of that labor. The superior/employer instructs, directs and controls the employees as to how to perform that labor, while the employee is obliged to do as directed and instructed);
b. Compensation (of the employee by the employer for work performed. Compensation can be monetary or material).
If either one of these elements is not present, there is no employer-employee relationship within the meaning of US Labor Law. Such relationship is something else other than employer-employee relationship (e.g. the security firm “employed” by GZ to guard him and do surveillance and counter surveillance is not GZ’s employee because the first element is missing).
According to the common law based doctrine of “respondeat superior”, an “employee is one who a person has the right to ‘direct and control’ in the performance of some compensated duties, and accordingly, it is appropriate to hold the ’employer’ liable for the torts of the employee he ‘controls'” (the “master-servant Rule”). In this definition, you can clearly see the two cumulative requirements I mentioned above. All Federal Labor Laws, Federal Protection Legislations (e.g. the Fair Labor Standards Act, etc.) are based on this doctrine (which provides just the minimum requirements).
Determining whether or not someone is an employee becomes problematic where there is no written contract and no trace of compensation (monetary or otherwise). In this kind of situation, Courts resort to the default definition of employee by applying the “economic realities test”. This test boils down to using the facts and circumstance in a specific case to determine if a person operates/operated in a subordinate position to another (the superior) and receives/received what could reasonably be deemed a form of compensation from him (the superior).
@Searcher,
Why would this issue have to depend on whether or not GZ was “employed” in some manner by the HOA?
The HOA was the advocate, telling its members to rely on GZ and hyping his qualifications as the go-to guy for crime prevention and safety.
The condo management company surely had a hand in distributing this and may have had a staff member write the newsletter.
Jointly, then, neither HOA or its management company (or their insurance companies) could side-step their responsibility when this freebie wanna-be cop deal blew up in their faces.
There is no necessity to claim GZ was an employee to establish liability. Their insurance companies would be eager to settle, to avoid trial.
How many jurors love condo HOAs?
How many jurors love insurance companies?
How many jurors love wanna-be cops who kill unarmed teens?
You think those insurance adjusters would figure they had a prayer of successful litigation? It would have been a financial bloodbath for them. They wanted to avoid that at all costs.
Well, not at “all” costs. At the lesser cost: the $1+ million settlement.
FYI, Benjamin Crump may have structured his contract with Sybrina and Tracy on a sliding scale for his fee – a higher percentage for a higher settlement. If one of the “break points” was at the $1 million mark, then he would want to exceed that break-point.
One thing we are likely never to know (and I don’t care to know) is the percentage Crump gets of the settlement payout, based on the contingency agreement (contract) with Trayvon’s parents.
@SearchingMind. Just the other day I read a summary of a case in Colorado where a volunteer at a ski resort applied for unemployment when the resort went “off season.” It was a State case, but guess how the court resolved that the volunteer was an employee? Because the resort gave the volunteer keys to the ski lift in which the person was charged in operating.
About a year ago, I did research for an attorney on the borrowed servant doctrine. That has 9 factors of evaluation to determine.
Labor law is not as easy as it looks on the surface. 🙂 I suspect that had there been an allegation in a lawsuit that GZ was an HOA employee, it would take much time and effort on both sides to argue their position.
@ Xena
Typo: you do raise (not raised).
“The U.S. Dept. of Labor provides that Individuals who volunteer or donate their services, usually on a part-time basis, for public service, religious or humanitarian objectives, not as employees and without contemplation of pay, are not considered employees of the religious, charitable or similar non-profit organizations that receive their service. Would you say that the HOA qualifies as a public service, religious, or humanitarian non-profit agency?”
No, not at all. But that does not mean (using reverse logic, and you are very good in making analogies) that when individuals volunteer or donate their services, usually on a part-time basis, for non-public service, non-religious or non-humanitarian objectives, and WITHOUT CONTEMPLATION of PAY, those individuals would be considered employees of that non-religious, non-charitable or similar profit organizations that receive their service. The key word in the scenario you describe is: “compensation (and/or the contemplation thereof)”. If there is compensation for services received (not for e.g. transport, food, etc.), that changes the equation. The employee is then born – regardless of the legal nature of the receiver of the services.
@searchingmind
could we not consider the defendant to be an independent contractor of the HOA who performed his duties voluntarily and without compensation? just asking, for sake of clarification.
@SearchingMind
I asked;
You answered:
For the sake of decent argument, based on that answer, (and if I had to research and prepare a Memo on findings), a good argument could start on the basis that since the HOA is not any of the aforementioned, then determining whether they employed GZ would require standards other than those in Federal Labor Law.
Then I would look at Florida labor law and case decisions while keeping fingers crossed. 🙂 Off the top of my head, I remember a case that might make for a good argument in the sense that GZ was provided with email addresses, names, and phone numbers of residents — the same as an employer would provide such personal info to an employee in the course of conducting their responsibilities.
Alright — you’re on. 🙂
@ Patricia
“Why would this issue have to depend on whether or not GZ was “employed” in some manner by the HOA?”
Now, we are saying the same thing.
I said that:
a. GZ is not an employees of the HOA
b. whether or not GZ was an employee of the HOA is not (directly) relevant to the civil liability of the HOA for GZ’s actions.
c. To make that liability stick against HOA, it’s enough to show that GZ operated with implied, tacit or express approval of the HOA and on HOA premises and wrought havoc in the process. An employer-employee relationship (which is absent) is not required for that liability to stick.
But somehow we digressed to who an employee is (which I find a nice discussion). Now I am goiong to get some food. See you guys later.
@Searcher –
Concur.
Happy noshing!
@SearchingMind
True, but I like the challenge of the subject.
Remember that SCOTUS took about 20 pages to address “agent” and what constitutes “constructive discharge” stemming from sexual harassment or hostile work environment in the Suders case. And, they wear black robes. 🙂
Of course “employee” isn’t the only choice, he could just as easily have been considered an “agent” of the HOA and they’d still be liable for appointing him. No compensation needed.
@ Fauxy
“could we not consider the defendant to be an independent contractor of the HOA who performed his duties voluntarily and without compensation? just asking, for sake of clarification.”
Yeah, Fauxy, thats one of the possibilities and he did it with the approval of the HOA. As Patricia once opined GZ may have been gradually building up his security firm and expecting to place the bills on the HOA table later (thats also another possibility). GZ sure operated more like an indipendent private contractor than as an employee. Now I must go get some food. See you guys later. Thanks for the nice discussions Xena, Patricia, Lonnie and Fauxy.
Well ya’ll I have done a bit of research about HOAs’, Labor Department and 2012 Florida Statues Chapter 720 Homeowner’s Assn. and volunteers.
First I would like to say I am not a legal scholar as most of our well versed members. Just trying my best to help with some information. So I appreciate being corrected if I am wrong.
1. Labor Department: Volunteering at for-profit organizations is generally frowned upon under the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA). And the practice has spurred some new legal challenges.
Deciphering the law
The Labor Department doesn’t offer much guidance in distinguishing “employees” from “volunteers.” It simply acknowledges a category of workers who donate their services, usually part time, for public service, religious or humanitarian objectives.
Fogen offered ehem volunteered his services for public service as Neighborhood Watch Captin. Department of Labor considers Fogen a worker. I would call Fogen a volunteer employee for RATL without compensation.
http://www.businessmanagementdaily.com/775/volunteers-at-for-profit-companies-should-they-be-paid
2. Most homeowner associations are incorporated, and are subject to state statutes that govern non-profit corporations and homeowner associations. State oversight of homeowner associations is minimal, and mainly takes the form of laws which are inconsistent from state to state. Some states, such as Florida and California, have a large body of homeowner association law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeowner_association
3. 2012 Florida Statue Chapter 720 Homeowner Associations is found here:
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0720/0720.html
I read this realized I was in over my head. I do know enough that RATL must follow this Chapter 720.
If I understand correctly all members were to be informed about Fogen. However, the director of RATL stated he didn’t know of Fogen until he was knocking on residents doors.
I believed they violated a portion of that Statue. The director will stand his ground and not take responsibility for volunteer employee Fogen criminal activities and blame the one on the HOA who is responsible for employing him as a volunteer.
Now the AhhHa moment:
Volunteer Liability and the Volunteer Protection Act:
A nonprofit can be held liable for its own actions (direct liability) and the actions of those working on its behalf (vicarious liability). The reverse is also true: volunteers can be held responsible (liable) for their actions on a nonprofit’s behalf.
Fogen can be held liable to RATL HOA for his actions. It is possible that lawyers for RATL will go after Fogens.
In Omars’ Motion to UnSeal, page 7 Exhibit B Letter is addressed to RATL HOA, its’ board members, property manager and volunteers (that would be Fogen)
cc: to Fogen c/o Mark O’Mara
That explains how he found out about the 1million.
Yes, RATL also is liable for Trayvons’ murder by admitted volunteer employee killer Fogen whom they advertisted, voted for and did not govern his activities.
@ic2fools
I’m not a legal scholar either, but I have conducted legal research for attorneys in employment matters. I agree with you. Also, I’ve volunteered for not-for-profit organizations, including a no-kill animal rescue shelter. Volunteers just don’t walk up and start doing things. It requires completing an application; establishing a schedule; and signing waivers, such as liability for injuries.
@Xena,
As an example, Xena, would be the application Fogen would be required to complete before volunteering at the no-kill animal shelter ….
ANOTHER FAILURE FOR GZ!
@PiranhaMom
Hahahaha. Especially since he didn’t have enough sense to know that a dog who corners you but doesn’t bite, should not be killed just because he and ShelLIE are afraid.
The no-kill animal shelter experience was just that — an experience! The application asked what type of animals you own or have owned. I’ve only owned dogs. In junior high, I fed black fur rats we had in science class. My sister owned a cat, but our inter-action was minimal.
So I figured they would assign me to the dogs,right? Wrong! My first assignment was cleaning out the cat kennels and then washing all the feeding dishes.
My next assignment was shredding newspapers for the bottom of the dog kennels.
Then, I was assigned to taking dogs out of the kennels when people wanted to interact to see if they wanted to adopt.
There was also an assignment where I supervised a 15 yr old doing his community service after his arrest for throwing water balloons off a balcony that hit someone. We walked the dogs for 3 hours and talked.
@ Xena –
I love this reply.
It seems such SANE and humble work
Thank you for doing it.
Awarding you the “1,000 MilkBones Award” for your service!
@PiranhaMom
(Humbling taking a bow.) My upcoming volunteer venture for the Summer is at a retirement home — hosting karoake. That is going to be FUN!
@Xen,
Get out your Patti Page & Rosemary Clooney singles, kiddo.
Enlist a local Boy Scout troupe to come in as dance partners.
If they can’t dance, they can swivel-hip those wheelchairs around the dance floor!
Girl Scouts, too!
Your local TV station will do a feature for “News at Five!” with the Scouts involved.
Everybody wins!
@PiranhaMom.
LOL!! More like Nancy Wilson and Bobby Bland. 🙂
Good suggestion, but the activity director said they only line dance. Also, there is no Scout unit in our city. Yes, I miss Girl Scout Cookies. 🙂
The hue isn’t the right one for our local television.
Xena,
Are you telling me you sing Karaoke only for folks with no rhythm?
Find a good service club match. You strike me as outgoing. I know you are articulate. “Program directors” of service clubs are ALWAYS looking for program material. Contact Rotary, Kiwanis, Lions – al those groups. Tell them about your outreach – the Diva of Karaoke – get some of them involved.
Go to your local JUNIOR high school – these kids are the age that they still have grandparents, and they’re not so sophisticate NOT to go to the old folks’ ranch and have a fun afternoon with people that age.
There is going to be at least ONE “unexpected partner” in your area for “dance date afternoon.” A Junior High school sports team, as example. (Basketball players make terrific wheelchair ancers – tey are so agile!) Or a church group. Once you have your “junior age group” to match with your seniors THEN go to your local TV station. Surely it does not broadcast solely in Farsi, Japanese or Bulgarian.
Somewhere there’s a local TV Program Director who will dispatch one cameraman and a reporter. Note: the TV anchor is never there. They report on the film the cameraman brings back (and yes, I know it’s tape). Maybe your local high school or junior college has a media training center, and they could do a report for local Community TV (PBS, local).
The viewers will be charmed!
@PiranhaMom. I so appreciate you taking an interest in my latest volunteer venture. It’s something I’ve done for many, many years, voluntarily and as a paid host. I go back to Rotary when they first began accepting women members — was the third woman they invited to join in my district. I was the only woman in the area who had a regular gig with the American Legion on Saturday evenings.
Not only do I know the craft and have the equipment, but I also know the people; their culture; how they have fun.
I got this. 🙂
@Xena –
Yep, Babe, YOU GOT IT.
Touched by your history with Rotary. I won an early scholarship from Rotary, for speech-writing (and giving same) when I was 15. Was surprised to learn it was an all-male enclave, but that’s how it was in the 1800’s. Female Rotarians revitalized the organization!
@PiranhaMom. For several years, I served on the scholarship committee for my club. It was for high school students going to college. After we received applications, we divided the fund between the applicants so no one was turned down.
One year, our fund raising spaghetti dinner raised so much money that I suggested we also give a scholarship to a single parent wanting to return to school. It became an annual endeavor thereafter.
Women didn’t stay long in our club because they found the sexist jokes disrespectful, but I told a few of my own so was one of the guys. 🙂 And, I was able to always remind the guys of their jokes at the spaghetti dinners because we prepared the food ourselves, and I was always in charge of the boiling water. 😉
@Xena,
Ah yes, Xena – the era when every kid in the race gets a medal. More brutal in my day: One winner.
I was not a “cute” teen. Borrowed a grown-up suit from my mother to compete. The only girl among all the boys competing.
And faced a terrible handicap: a timekeeper so absent-minded (or so unnerved to find a girl so assertive as to be making a speech?) that he forgot to ring the warning bell – or the final bell.
I knew the time should have run out and faced an eternity of vacuum to be filled. Eventually Mr. Timekeeper woke up, yelling “Stop! Stop! Times up!” There was an embarrassed pause. I let the tension grow, then said softly “It’s about time …” (the guys began laughing) “… have never been so happy to say “thank you.” and sat down to thunderous applause. But – I was steamed.
Worse, in a sexist move (a term not invented at that time) it was “Ladies before gentlemen” and I had to speak first. Of course, nobody would remember the first speaker. But — the boys were awful – used all the hand gestures, all that phony crap. Above all, they tried so hard — and they were so boring.
I was new to speaking before strangers. I have no sense of humor (I rarely laugh) but I do have a sense of the wry. Most facts have a wry side to them. I report that. I was surprised to see all those old guys laugh all through my serious (but wry) speech.
I don’t know what happened to all those boys from their debate teams, but there was only one check written, and they spelled my name correctly.
I took it home, showed my mother, and thanked her for the use of the suit. Fine silver-grey Italian worsted, as I recall. The color matched the braces on my teeth. (Ah, so great to escape the teen years!)
Have always been thankful to Rotary. Used the check to buy my first typewriter, a Smith-Corona Portable — fully manual – and started writing newspaper columns. So, Rotary gave me my first boost into journalism.
Thanks for keeping up the scholarship program, Xena. Young people are often filled with doubt, and they need that outside approval. It’s so appreciated!
@PiranhaMom.
No, thank you for witnessing the good that comes from Rotary. I’ve not been active for a few years — refused to transfer clubs and commuted 75 miles to my own club those weeks when I didn’t want to eat with the farmers in my neck of the woods. Plus, the lunches here are sack — a big change from Polish buffets and Red Lobster in the old ‘hood. I surrendered membership against lots of objections.
But I admit — I miss the annual District meetings where each club hosted a theme room. Our theme was always MASH. We put Vodka in the IV bottles. 🙂
@Xena –
OK, that one rated a surprised laugh – a MASH-theme party: vodka in IV bottles. Love it!
XENA~~ I LOVE MASH! I’ll pass on the vodka IVs, but bring on the olive drab and dog tags.
________________________________
@cielo62.
I still have the dog tags. LOL!!
Never had the olive drab — wore a white medical coat over dark blue scrubs.
We served drinks through the IV tubes and it wasn’t long before we had patients. It was my job to wrap their head mummy style and put an arm in a sling. Then the guys made bets of who would walk into the hotel lobby looking that way. As soon as someone took them up on the bet, fake blood was sprayed on the sling. LOL!!
PirhanaMom- typo? 1800s??
Sent from my iPod
@Cielo,
No typo.
1800s, allegorically speaking …
A long, long, long time ago (in a very long life).
PirhanaMom- did you get my long response to you?
Sent from my iPod
@Cielo.
I’m working backward through a huge stack of messages – “Last in/first up” to save time.
Anticipate reaching your “long message” soon and will be in touch at that time. OK? And, THANKS.
Xena- I think PirhanaMom is thinking PR, not mechanics.
Sent from my iPod
Xena- I got Girl Scouts on my campus vying of cookies! What flavor do you want?
Sent from my iPod
@cielo62.
I like them all!!!! 🙂
@Xena and PirhanaMom- I could never work at an animal shelter. It would obliterate my heart. In an ideal world each one would have a home, not a cage. And people give up their pets for some if the most selfish reasons. I could just slug them off the face of the earth. (The people, that is)
Sent from my iPod
@cielo62.
True, but think about it like this. That is why it’s important to have volunteers so the critters have human contact and receive love in spite of the cage.
@Xena –
re: “True, but think about it like this. That is why it’s important to have volunteers so the critters have human contact and receive love in spite of the cage.”
You, Xena, are SPECIAL.
Pirhanamom& Xena- yep. She is. I guess I’m selfish, too. Can’t stand to leave a fur child in a cage. In spite of the love I give.
Sent from my iPod
@cielo62.
Hugs — ((((((((Cielo))))))))
@PiranhaMom. Thanks. You are too. See, you got me talking about volunteer work and no-kill animal adoption shelters — a long way from talking about how GZ gained more than a hundred pounds in less than a year. 🙂
@ic2,
As I’ve addressed the issue in the past, the logic of your presentation is clear-cut. And the attorneys/adjusters for the entities settling this demand to keep it out of Court clearly agree with you, ic2 — to the tune of over $1 million. That’s singing a happy tune!
Now and only now do I get it! thank you Prof!
it makes perfect sense!
and i’m so glad Ben is so good at what he does because a lessor lawyer wouldn’t hold up theses BS attacks!
here’s Ben Crumps response to mama z
“One year ago today, the State of Florida decided that there was evidence to charge George Zimmerman for second-degree murder for profiling, pursuing, and killing our unarmed teenage son. The facts of this case are simple and straightforward. We are confident that a jury following the overwhelming evidence against George Zimmerman will hold him accountable for killing our son, Trayvon Martin.
For the Zimmerman family to allege that the justice system doesn’t work, simply because they are unhappy their son was arrested in the first place, is disingenuous and disrespectful to the very system that is currently affording him every available opportunity to defend himself. The arrest of an admitted killer is not a violation of due process, it is due process. Most will agree that no one has been given greater consideration by the justice system for killing an unarmed child, than George Zimmerman.
We continue to pray that our son’s death will serve as a catalyst in preventing other senseless acts of gun violence.”
FROM THE DESK OF RACHAEL S
“or the Zimmerman family to allege that the justice system doesn’t work, simply because they are unhappy their son was arrested in the first place, is disingenuous and disrespectful to the very system that is currently affording him every available opportunity to defend himself.”
Well said!!!! GZ has already been afforded much more than any “typical” criminal would be.
Amen to that! The court has given him a very long leash.
I have a great idea….!! To counter the “From the desk of….” shit by the FogenPhoolePhantasy Camp, why don’t we all do what you did…..start every post with..
“From the desk of….”
From the desk of racerrodig
To FogenPhooles Mami :
Get a phucking grip on reality. Mr. Crump and the Martins could not have stated it any better than
“…The arrest of an admitted killer is not a violation of due process, it is due process.”
Game – Set – Match
p.s. you didn’t write that letter and you’re fooling no one but yourself.
Have a Great Day racerrodig
The Zimmerman family may allege that the justice system doesn’t work, but it employed then for decades and presumably pays them 2 pensions now that they don’t work. All their press releases, interviews, tweets, and letters to the public are the Zimmerman’s efforts to make the justice system not work.
@Cercando Luce.
BINGO! Maybe they are saying that the judicial system was corrupt when they worked for it, and can only be corrupt when it’s to their benefit.
@ Cercando Luce:
“The Zimmerman family may allege that the justice system doesn’t work, but it employed then for decades and presumably pays them 2 pensions now that they don’t work.”
Amen to that!!!
Very good point. But then again, that what racist hypocrites do…
Cercando–excellent points!
I have never met the martins but i’m really starting to love them.
People you would love to call friends. I hope they can sense they are not alone, no parent who loses a child to violence, should ever have to go through the ignorant, bullying attacks of the lowest society has to offer.
Jesus how do they stay so classy. I’d be leaving a flaming pile of my own turds the size of Canada on the zimmerman doorstep. Unfortunately i’m not as dignified as the martins.
lol but I concur!
you gotta admit they got legal support early but when it comes down to it, look at them, and Jarvis; they are a very close healthy family of decent, intelligent, morally righteous, dignified people. wow! what a huge disparity between Trayvon’s family and loser gz family!
The year is still young……..God will have the final say.
@Shannon,
Thank you Shannon, for citing Trump’s release of Trayvon’s parents’ response to the latest Z “letter”
I can only describe Sybrina and Tracy’s response in two words:
PURE CLASS
ThanX !!
Dennis they SETTLED = clearly they were liable.
they took no action to stop fogen AFTER repeated complaints by tenants about his behavior.
@Bill Taylor
Absolutely. Also, because GZ left that community like a bat out of hell after killing Trayvon, he communicated to the HOA that;
1. He was not so concerned about community safety; and
2. His actions were wrong.
Xena — Have always been curious over how he and the Missus got out of Dodge so quickly and over to the Os. Were they renting a furnished place, right down to kitchen cutlery? (Of course it’s been said this grifter couple didn’t have a pot to piss in, but their apparent mobility gives new meaning to the expression.)
@Trained Observer
The way I see it, unless they rented storage space, they had no furniture, linen, etc. and that is why they needed to rent an extended stay hotel room. In the alternative, they abandoned their furniture.
also the expression of “fear” that very night shows that fogen KNEW what he did was 100% wrong, why would an INNOCENT person that acted in self defense have anything to “fear”?
that night NOBODY except the witnesses even knew what happened.
an innocent person that stopped a thug from harming the people there would be HONORED and thanked by his neighbors, nothing to fear from the people that knew what happened at all.
Agreed, Bill. He knew most neighbors would want to run him out on a rail. .
can you imagine? having shot the neighbor’s unarmed kid just less than 100 yards from his home, after stalking him, for not a fucking reason that you could explain to Satan himself?
What excuse could he use not to get out of town, his own mind knew he had done something really wrong.
Absolutely Tzar, Fogen knew very damn well that he had done wrong, when he shot and killed this child in cold blood. this is why he got the hell out of dodge and, went into hiding.
What other reason would he have had, for going into hiding that very night? his cohort Osterman kept him very close to him for some reason. IMO it wouldn’t be very hard to figure out what that reason was.
Is HOA legally liable in the shooting? I thought Fogen was a self-appointed neighborhood watch leader. It is also my understanding that it was HOA policy for neighborhood watch people not to carry concealed weapons. Fogen is also not on anybody’s payroll to watch that complex. I’m having trouble understanding where HOA’s negligence plays into this. No disrespect toward Martin’s parents but I see this in every violent murder. The families of the victims always want to obtain blood money and get rich from a tragedy so they never have to work again. I don’t think HOA is liable in Trayvon’s death, but that is just my opinion, I could be wrong. If you ask me, I think the Trayvon’s parents sued HOA because that is the only people they can actually get money out of. They know Fogen is broke and they will never get anything out of him.
“The families of the victims always want to obtain blood money and get rich from a tragedy so they never have to work again.” Yeah that’s so what its about *roll eyes* Not gonna address this part of your statement beyond that and to say that if you really REALLY believe that is why civil suits like this are filed, you are far more jaded and cynical than I am. Didn’t think that was possible.
” It is also my understanding that it was HOA policy for neighborhood watch people not to carry concealed weapons.” That’s SOP for ALL NWPs across the country. That said do you really believe they didn’t know, either through direct knowledge or a homeowner/renter telling, that he was armed while out on patrol?
” Fogen is also not on anybody’s payroll to watch that complex.” Directly no, however don’t you think its a bit fishy they allowed a renter who was BEHIND IN RENT, treat the complex like his own personal police beat?
Is the HOA 100% culpable like GZ is? No. Did they play a part in this tragedy? YES. Anywhere else GZ would have been forcibly evicted and made to be someone else’s problem. Instead the allowed him to take control of the NWP(which he ran like an idiot btw), patrol while armed, and harass other residents. They also made GZ, per the newsletter they sent out, the go to man for problems found by the residents.
I would not be surprised at all, that if for his crappy services, they simply ignored the issue of his(and thus his landlord’s) unpaid rent.
Payment doesn’t always have to be in the form of actual money.
Ravenwolf, I had not seen your post and pretty much posted the same thing… Of course I am not as eloquent in my presentation.
But, yes; there is no denying the HOA responsibility and failure to prevent a thing like this from happening.
Actually, his rent was due to the owner of the property, not the HOA.
That is true, which is why I mentioned the property owner. If rent isn’t getting paid neither is the HOA dues. My point was that rather than rousting the freeloader out by any means necessary, they more or less stuck a badge on his chest and sent him on his way.
@Bettykath… I realize his rent was to be paid to the Condo Owner… I also think the HOA would be made aware of properties that are in a bank foreclosure situation and how it effects the insurance, division of service fees ect to the entire complex.
Exactly , he should not have been living in the complex due to his none payment of rent. And he defiantly should have NEVER been given the consideration of an “In Good Standing” home owner with all the bells and whistles of NW Captain and the go to guy.
The HOA paid, they should have paid and that is that.
Bingo. If anything the moment word got around, and it always does, that he called the cops on his landlord, that should have been a 60ft tall neon sign that he was trouble and would continue to be such. I mean really? That takes serious brass to say not only am I not giving you the money I owe, but I’m also going to call the cops.
GZ presumably was at his last job at the time so where was all that money going?
Most of you who support the lawsuit against HOA fail to explain why the Martin family deserves 2 fricking million dollars because some asshole shot and killed their son. I have nothing against the Martins and want justice for Trayvon, but until someone provides an honest intelligent reason for a 2 million dollar payment from HOA, I will consider it blood money.
@Dennis
First, it wasn’t a lawsuit. It was a settlement. However, to answer your question, it goes like this …
The U.S. Constitution provides that in amount of or exceeding $25.00, the courts can be petitioned for redress of grievances. Sybrina and Tracy exercised their constitutional rights against the HOA to settle outside of court, or go into court to redress their grievance. Indeed, it cost them more than $25.00 to bury their son.
I’m not waiting my breath or time anymore. Its outlined in my response, several others and hell at least ONE article from the Prof., besides this one. If you want to ignore what we’ve all said that’s your business, but don’t act as if you haven’t actually been given answers.
Dennis, You can’t possibly be serious?!
What do you call 500K that fogen begged for and received?
SMDH
@ Dennis who says
Dennis, that is a very strong and ugly statement. I find it difficult to believe that you have made yourself aware of the evidence presented by the state. Their very fist evidence dump consists of many pages outlining precisely why the HOA is liable for a wrongful death, by all means, re-read those pages.
The HOA by virtue of their meeting minutes and newsletters accepted and sanctioned the defendant’s role as ‘captain’ of their NW. Although there was no pay involved and the position was voluntary, it clearly lacked oversight by the persons taking ultimate responsibility for the very existence of NW and the defendant’s position within NW. THE HOA ACTIVELY ENDORSED the defendant’s actions and as such, they are liable for a death that occurred as a result of the defendant’s actions, just as surely as if they had neglected to repair a jacuzzi with an electrical malfunction which electrocuted anyone who tested the temperature with their big toe.
Oh dennis, dennis, dennis…The sadist in me will never explain to you why the Martins deserve the settlement and only wishes you would complain more. Your displeasure with this settlement is like an added bonus to it that even Crump could not hope for.
I think that Z’s rent payment status is truly irrelevant here. Where the responsibility of the HOA come in is that they referred people to Z as the block watch captain–and in fact if one were to dig down very far, it is pretty likely that he was the whole block watch.
From what I understand, HOA’s can be a double-edged sword. While they can facilitate certain kinds of things (enforcing various neighborhood preferences with regard to property appearance, upkeep of shared areas and the like) and tend to give a voice with some legal back-up to it to a vocal or active majority, there are also liabilities that attach to the activities. That is why they purchase insurance–foreseeing that some day a kid might drown in the pool or a car fall into a sinkhole, or various other unforseen circumstances. And apparently allowing a loose cannon to run around with a gun under the guise of NW captain falls close enough to the line that the HOA preferred not to take their chances in court on this one.
As far as the family’s motivation, I believe that most families in similar situations feel an obligation to their lost member (especially children) to give their lives meaning by attempting to prevent the same thing from happening to another person. The law does little to provide a remedy that looks like making the HOA line up and say that they are sorry and they will never do it again. But, the law does provide for them to pay out a financial sum in damages. Not necessarily wholly satisfying to a family, but it is what is available.
Very good comment lurker. It’s amazing how easily envy can be raised and used strategically. As far as I can see that is the only emotion Mark O’Mara wants to stir up and twist to his own advantage. Leaving apart the obvious responsibility of HOA, after all GZ was not simply a self-proclaimed neighborhood watch, as Dennis writes. But we have a document in the discovery that one of the neighbors informed HOA about GZ collecting support addresses with his clipboard in the neighborhood. From that point on he wasn’t self-appointed anymore. But accepted as the captain for NW in the process.
What is missing in this discussion so far I think is that the Martin Family obviously has a bigger aim than just personal enrichment. Which seems to core point of attack.
The Trayvon Martin foundation is meant among other things to teach young boys like Trayvon e.g. conflict resolution.
The very special framing of O’Mara propagated first by Rene Stutzman in her article about the settlement via the allusion to an “interview” with O’Mara in February, her own interview by the way, one that seemingly never saw the light of day in any printed shape apart from alluding to O’Mara that the settlement must be higher than one million. Makes me wonder is she one of his tools for shaping public opinion? Is the date she gives arbitrary and ultimately unimportant since the her briefings with O’Mara happen in fact rather regularly?
Strictly all this is also borderline racist, because there is either a law that allows such private suits for all American or there is none. Just as lurker argued above.
Oh, then I read your “I will continue to consider it blood money” comment AFTER I posted my answer to you, Dennis.
Here’s what I have to say to that: Go ahead and continue to consider it blood money. No rational person cares what you think on that count, I am sure. Why should any clear-headed person try to answer your question about why it should be a million or two million or [fill in the blank]? It SHOULDN’T. It should be $442,921,255.32; I have known that from the very beginning because I’M SMART. But they didn’t want to drag out the whole process so they settled. BOTH SIDES.
And before they settled, there was a little wrinkle. The lawyers for HOA said, “We do have one problem here. Dennis is going to consider this blood money.”
If my confidential sources is accurate, Crump’s answer was: “Oh that’s OK, I don’t care what he thinks; let’s do it.”
Malisha- you are SOOO right! Our society only permits imprisonment or monetary damages as acceptable punishments. Getting monetary damages is NOT “blood money.” It’s the only way to hold a corporation accountable, by hitting them in the pocketbook where it hurts. True, flogging would be MUCH MORE satisfying, but we don’t that anymore.
Sent from my iPod
TZAR you crack me UP! 😆
Great post, Leander.
The HOA was sued because they were negligent… residents had complained about Fogen patrolling with a gun, riding with his headlights out and selectively harassing residents, demanding personal information from residents ect… … The HOA put their stamp of approval on Fogen’s false NW program, by allowing him to use their facilities for meetings, gave him access to the security system, confirmed his postion as NW Captin in the Retreat Newsletter , they chose to use Fogen as property security over the SPD’s FREE services… all this support and access and freedom to move about the property is the HOA stamp of approval to a RENTER who was in fact, due to his NONE PAYMENT of Rent, living in a condo in foreclosure.
So YES in fact the HOA shares responsibility in this tragedy. They should have put a stop to his actions a long time ago.
ABSOLUTELY!!!!
Dennis You are starting to irritate me. Do to my respect for Mr Leatherman and his blog i will not comment further on your post.
Sista–I keep hearing about complaints that were made about Z. Are these recorded anywhere? Were they made to the HOA or to police?
lurker, as far as I know, but strictly Malisha knows more about that. No complaints have left traces in the official record. What may be helpful though is that apparently Crump filed a motion that the HOA cannot destroy any of its files concerning the NW. I was enormously disappointed in the interview with Kent Taylor, for many reasons, but would residents if they were renters only, be allowed to contact him , Leland Management or HOA due to harassments. Did they receive the newsletter at all? On other other hand they may have contacted the person renting the house to them, and this person may well have tried to figure out what was going on inside HOA.
Strictly I belong to the type of people that get angry about such matters but would hardly call police to complain. What could they do, confronted with Fogen’s activity that the black man visiting a friend describes? You’ve seen the video? Someone posted it here.
Dennis – WTF??!!!!
“The families of the victims always want to obtain blood money and get rich from a tragedy so they never have to work again.”
Do you REALLY believe that families would rather have money than to have their family intact? What a disgusting thing to say. Do you really think that for one second Trayvon’s parents wouldn’t rather trade that money for their son back?
@Rachael
Preach it!!!
@ Rachael. I agree with you completely. I just don’t understand how some people think. What if this was their son?. Some people can say anything they want, but believe me, if the shoe was on the other foot they would be singing a different tune. They would see the injustice of it all. I do believe they would sue and do any and everything possible, so this will not happen to anyone else’s child. Yes it is disgusting and very sad.
The HOA has no authority to tell someone they can’t drive around with a concealed weapons permit. Even if they told him not to, he probably would have done it anyway because IT IS NOT AGAINST THE LAW. Y’all are acting like the HOA put the weapon in his hand for god sakes.
@Dennis
Two ways of looking at it.
Conducting security with a gun requires a Class G conceal carry license where guns are allowed. GZ established the purpose of his call —“We’ve had some break-ins ….” He took on the responsibility of NW. As long as he remained in his truck and did not draw his gun, he did not acted beyond the scope of his CCL and NW rules.
When he got out of his truck, he went beyond the scope of NW rules. He exited his vehicle for the sole purpose of following the kid under the belief that the kid was a danger to the community who was getting away. That required GZ to have a Class G CCL.
As one instance, in the AIS complaint, they provided scheduling with security having, and not having a Class G license. There is some verbiage that says security accompanying GZ to court did not require a Class G license because guns are not allowed in the courthouse.
Guns are neither allowed on NW.
So this gets down to understanding when guns are legally allowed even if people have a CCL. GZ could not enter the courthouse with or without a CCL no matter the Class. OTOH, since it is reasonable to believe that the HOA knew that GZ carried his gun while conducting NW, they should have required him to have a Class G license in order to legally carry a gun in the course of providing security for that community.
My dear Dennis, you are right that the HOA cannot supersede Florida’s permission for someone with a CC permit to drive around with his gun. However, the HOA oversaw George’s training in Neighborhood Watch, 14 hours total on site at the club house IIRC. During that training it was explained repeatedly that Neighborhood Watch doesn’t follow, doesn’t accost, doesn’t get involved, it just acts as “the eyes and ears of the neighborhood.” So it was clear to George and to the HOA that there should be no guns used on NW. HOA THEN failed to act when residents complained about that loaded gun, about harassment and intimidating behaviors. AND the HOA board knew (or should have known; they were in a position to know) that George wasn’t a homeowner and wasn’t paying rent to the homeowner. It doesn’t matter that the complainants were just a few people instead a majority of the 260 units. The HOA failed to act responsibly and therefore allowed this crazy man free rein, resulting in the terrorizing and the death of a homeowner’s guest.
You have called the settlement “blood money” and wrote that the Martin family “want to get rich so that they never have to work again.” The HOA put George into a role that he used to take the life of an innocent guest, and the settlement is the result, the cost (so far as it could be worked out) of the HOA’s irresponsibility. It’s not some lottery anybody won.
@ Rachael –
@ Dennis –
@ Team –
I’m just replying to Dennis’s question about “why” Trayvon’s parents should receive “blood money” up to “$2,000,000” with this response that is MATHEMATICAL.
Not morally indignant (though I am).
JUST DOING THE MATH, OK?
But first, re “blood” money. Dennis, pal, in this particular case … there WAS blood. As soon as Zimmerman shot their son. It caused blood to appear. Also death to happen.
Now, on to the MATH:
The parents sued on behalf of their dead son’s estate. ONE of the many reasons I grieve Trayvon Martin’s death is that it robs me, as a U.S. citizen and a resident on Planet Earth, of Trayvon Martin’s potential contribution to solutions for the increasing problems facing mankind.
He had plans for the future. Included college. Career path: science/engineering, with an interest in aviation and aerospace.
With that in mind, was Trayvon Martin’s future flipping burgers? Asking out the drive-through window, “You want fries with that?” or “Wanna Super-Size up for $1.99 more?”
No.
That was not Trayvon’s future.
Trayvon’s future was a career that would, in today’s dollars, without considering inflation, start at $100,000 and end at $300,000 per year. So let’s just average that to the mid-point of $150,000 per year. He would work for 40 years minimum, and techno-scientists at that level often work into their 70’s because the work is just so damned satisfying. Discovery is exciting!
But let’s say he started at age 25 (after Grad school) and quit at age 65. Total average earnings = $150,000 x 40 = $6 million.
Just in the harsh terms of actuarial studies, a million dollar, or two million dollar settlement for the obliteration of Trayvon’s future – guarantee, ya’ Dennis, he’d be a Six Million Dollar Man – that settlement by the parents and their attorney, is a KINDNESS.
As you know, Dennis, I serve on an HOA Board. Zimmerman, being a renter, could not even be a MEMBER of hat HOA. I don’t think there’s even a classification for NON-paying renters. Who would tolerate that?
This should have been the first tip-off to Zimmerman’s instability and unsuitability. Then there were the complaints about Zimmerman’s ACTIONS before this crime, from residents and owners. TOTALLY IGNORED by the HOA Board.
If you do not see the rationale for the settlement to NOT sue the HOA Board and associated entities from the numbers I just cited, then look at it from the INSURANCE COMPANY’S viewpoint.
Analyzing RISK vs REWARD is the business they’re in.
They know the high cost of litigation.
They know the evidence.
From experience, they can easily guess the jury’s verdict in any suit over the loss of Trayvon’s life – caused by his ADMITTED killer, operating UNDER THE AUTHORITY OF THE HOA:
Mega, MEGA millions. Not just $6 million in future earnings. Think of the pain and suffering endured by Trayvon’s parents, his brother, his entire family.
SMART MOVE by the insurance company (who controlled the settlement for the HOA and management company).
A KIND AND GENEROUS ACCEPTANCE by Trayvon Martin’s family and their attorney.
Dennis, I love you as a strong and intelligent participant in these posts. I am not abandoning that allegiance to you,
I want to give you a fair answer to what I will consider, for the sake of responding to you, “a fair question.”
I hope it answers your question.
Thanks for reading.
@Rachael, Xena, PiranhaMom, Two sides, Cercando Luce and the rest of you fine posters. Thank you for responding so intelligently to Dennis b/c if I would have it wouldn’t have been nice at ALL. My blood is boiling after reading his garbage about blood money. How dare him!
@SG2 Some Zidiots are calling it blackmail money. They should look up the legal definition for blackmail. Their ignorance is overbearing.
There was a sovereign citizen who sued a bank and lost. He said the judge was corrupt. A Black litigant sued a hospital and prevailed. It was the same judge in her case. The sovereign citizen was very angry about it — called her “ni–er rich.”
That argument wouldn’t work legally over here, we have an odd term for liability of the party that allows someone to perform whatever job for another. That includes volunteers which obviously is important considering the terms of the insurance you choose, if e.g. you work with volunteers. I would assume there is an equivalent law in the States.
good comment Luce, other good comments like Piranha’s allusion to the Trayvon Martin Estate, which obviously is an attempt to make his dead less futile. Which has my fullest respect.
Concerning this Luce and others:
I have quite a bit of bias against someone that tries to deal with this type of matters via police. But that said: I understand that Fogen somehow dealt with the issue in his job. So there may in fact be a law that once someone is in disclosure he is not the legal recipient of the rent any longer. Strictly he could have paid his rent to someone else. That’s how it would work in a bankruptcy environment over here. The owner does not have to pay his fees any longer but whoever else, e.g. the bank takes over. And strictly the money would need to go to them.
So apart from my irritation about the way he deals with it, his usual method of alarming police, I would suspend my judgment in this context. I could even imagine a scenario where you pay the rent to the former owner and then have to pay an additional rent to whoever has taken over. Over here you could use quite a few legal tools to get back your money, but in the worst case scenario you may well loose the rent you gave to the former owner.
Rachael imho Trayvon Martin might be alive today if HOA had at the very least done a background check on fogen.Seems to me that would have eliminated any chance of them allowing him to prowl the neighhood with their blessing and when SPD came to explain the watch program seems to me they should have informed HOA they didn’t feel fogen was right for the job.
As for his two calls to police concerning payments, strictly it reminds me of a remark Serino made during his interviews. I do not remember it precisely and would need to listen to it again. He somehow said casually that’s not the type you are? or something to that effect concerning confrontation, I think it was. He clearly sometimes avoids confrontation but there are also points were he doesn’t. And Serino is very aware of that too.
Fogen has two faces a) a rather weak guy that in everyday life seems to be completely unable to deal with problems on his own, reaching out for the help of police where he should be quite able to deal with matters on his own b) the other face surfaced e.g. in the way he dealt with Trayvon in the most extreme way, his former girlfriend, and the officer that arrested his friend, the drunken lady.
Or on a slightly different layer his former colleague of Arab descent. Here he disguised ultimately a competition scheme as entertainment. And when this type of competition failed he turns crazy, trying to do what the “Achmed the terrorist” did to him. He seems unable to question his own behavior and the results and correct it accordingly. But instead of doing that he occasionally simply does “what was done to him” in return, In the case of his former girlfriend he pays back with exactly the same coin, claiming it was in fact her that struck him. Concerning his colleague he now starts to complain about everyone and everything, just as he feels unjustifiably his colleague did about him.
I just checked, there is quite a bit of psychological interest concerning the case, e.g. this pdf.file: Talking about the Trayvon Martin Case in Psychology and Counseling Training and Psychotherapy
The Trayvon Martin Foundation will have no problems at all to find experts quite interested to work on the issue. I absolutely disagree with “unicorn” it never was a media event only, it wouldn’t have stood a chance to turn into one if it did not contain something much deeper.
Maybe someone someday will also take a close look at Fogen’s psychological make-up. Histrionic, bipolar, narcisstic, authoritarian character?
What I would like is a psycho-historian looking into the genesis of Fogen’s profile that led up to the murder.
To return to the simplistic enrichment charge, all these efforts will cost money. Strictly the Foundation could fund experts to study specific angles. This of course seems way beyond the perception horizon of someone like Dennis. Who cannot think much further than: what I would do with the money, it seems. I would stop to work.
Why don’t we all start using this method to plan for our retirement. Simply have one kid more than we want to have, and when he’s almost grown, send him out for skittles and get him killed so we can collect a million dollars and never have to work again?
Well, it is a GOOD plan for people who really don’t LIKE to work. But for the others, it lacks a certain something…
@Malisha –
Re: “Why don’t we all start using this method to plan for our retirement. Simply have one kid more than we want to have, and when he’s almost grown, send him out for skittles and get him killed so we can collect a million dollars and never have to work again?
“Well, it is a GOOD plan for people who really don’t LIKE to work. But for the others, it lacks a certain something… ”
Malisha, the way to make this unique entrepreneurship work – “the concept that keeps on giving” is to let the kids know what you’re planning – all of them — but just don’t tell them which ONE is going to be “Mr. Right.”
That ought to keep a lot of potential disciplinary actions in check …
On the other hand, kiddo, looks really, really crappy on the resume.
HOA and management negligence can include such things as lack of lighting in public areas (the dog walk), inoperable surveillance cameras, open access in a supposed gated community, inaction on complaints about an armed busy-body confronting residents and their visitors.
@Dennis, I have to disagree with you on that one, the hoa does have the right to tell him he can’t drive around with a concealed weapon. They endorced him as security, they are now responsible for his actions. Did they run a background check on him, call references, ect. There are a alot of things that are not against the law. It’s not against the law to drink alcohol if you are of age. Take you a bottle of vodka to work, and have a few, and when you get fired for drinking on the job, tell him he can’t fire you, it’s not against the law.
That’s a pretty pushy statement there, Dennis. I’m certain Trayvon’s parents would much rather have him than any amount of money. There aren’t very many sanctions that can be slapped on negligent parties. Money is one and why HOAs carry liability insurance.
Use your head for something more than tearing the victim’s family down.
@Dennis
That depends on the lawsuit against him. It can request that any royalties on publications and/or payments for interviews of the defendant be paid on the judgment. It can also request to lien any future donations to his legal defense trust fund or any other donation efforts.
Good point Xena, one thing is sure, he shouldn’t be able to profit from his “notoriety” or due to having killed Trayvon, at least not beyond the absolutely necessary level to feed him up to trial, based on this very simple fact alone a civil suit against would make sense.
Also I would like to see him, someone that seems to believe his lawyer, that even if acquitted he cannot ever in his life find a job and work again, he should learn to cut down his living expenses. In this context this little bit from the Fogen support team Stutzman/Weiner is interesting.
That’s one way to look at it via the update of March 7, 2013. But even for the period Jan 1 – March 3, the term bulk would be slightly extravagant. They could of course have taken as a basis the update from April 11 of the defense fund page. Were matters already look back to normal.
They could also take a look at the percentage of money for experts over the whole period MOM controls the fund with Fogen’s permission.
Now if we look at all the money the fund ever controlled, defense spend 5 % on experts so far.
Besides some of the apparently manipulative use of numbers, e.g. that for the period of Jan 1 to March 3, the expenses for security are 500 $ (that is for slightly over one month) and for the period Mach 3, to April 11 1.304,95 (for slightly over one month) makes me wonder to what extend presentation if meant for the more innocent eyes.
I agree LeaNder. Something about the “break down” of expenses does not seem to be on the up and up. One thing that really bothered me is the case expense category in which the expense is $5,879.31. The site states:
This is from March 3 to April 11 but from Jan 1 to March 3 the expense is the exact same about? Really?
Yes, I cannot hide what I feel for the guy:
Thanks for the support, esentrick, yes your example is even better. Exactly to the penny the same amount spent for one month (March 3 – April 11/1,25/) as for the two preceding month together (Jan 3 – March 3). That’s impressive in spite of the (not yet paid?) video taping. To the penny not less! Who is doing the bookkeeping Fogen?
What is interesting in this context is, all the case related expenses are down by 20% compared to the 8 month from May to December 2012, where the average was $ 4,448,51. But the downward spiral would be even steeper had the amount for March 3 to April 11, that catched your attention, not kept it at 20 % down only. Had they spend in March the same amount as in one of the two preceding month, the case related expenses would be down by 35%. Does not paint the office as overly actively going forward. Oh, yes, there is all this delay. 😉
While poor Fogen’s household expenses have been cut by 40% from $ 7,718,44 per month from May to Dec 2012 to an average $ 4,565,48 from Jan – to April 8, 2013, to make it look slightly better we are given § 3,103,16 in March were people more easily grasp the monthly rate.
How much does the average couple spend that has to stay home most of the time in the US? No evening at the opera? No dinners at posh restaurants in after?
Anyway they have cut down over 90% on security. Has the threat vaporized? Is this the type of security Fogen relies on lately to keep himself and “wifie”safe? Could it be the threat has always been slightly hyped up, and they hope no body pays attention anymore? But wait, maybe we provide them with a few arguments for their next “installment”
We are staying tuned.
catched “caught” my attention while pushing the post button.
and “not less” should be “no less”, of course. to the penny, impressive bookkeeping. Well it actually happens but more in the monthly basis, usually. And I would imagine rarely with court fees. Notice, BDLR states the state saves them much money for transport in the depositions.
DENNIS i really hope that was just a typo i just read.
WHOA, DENNIS, DENNIS, DENNIS:
Whatever you thought, you thought wrong.
*) Have you read the Retreat’s newsletters where they give their stamp of approval to Fogen as the neighborhood watch contact and tell residents to CONTACT HIM if they see something suspicious?
*) Are you aware that Fogen hooked up on behalf of the HOA with Sanford PD’s coordinator as the watch contact for the Retreat?
*) Are you aware that in his hotsy-totsy role as the Retreat’s NW coordinator/captain, he was going around with a clipboard asking impertinent questions of Retreat residents, and that despite complaints, the HOA apparently did nothing to rein him in, much less put a stop to his nonsense.
*) Are you aware that neighborhood watch program participants are forbidden to patrol when armed, and that Fogen by his own admission says he went everywhere except work with his lil’ ol’ gun?
*) Are you aware that HOA insiders knew he patrolled with a gun, but (yet again) did nothing to stop his nasty habit?
I think you need to re-think your position on the HOA’s liability.
By settling, what the HOA and its legal team did was to save many clueless unit owners (new buyers, perhaps, who had no idea what was going on or that Fogen even existed) from being on the hook for treble, quadruple OR MORE for a payout.
An incensed jury in a civil trial — and I do believe jurors would have been outraged at both Fogen and the HOA — could have recommended payout so high that it would exceed HOA coverage, necessitate decimating reserves, and require leveling assessments for years to come. In the end, it would have been cheaper to bulldoze the entire development .
I think it’s both insulting and naive for you to suggest that Crump and Trayvon Martin’s family were merely casting about for an innocent deep pocket in which to score.
And Dennis are you aware of the gentleman an AA said he was so harassed by fogen he decided to jog somewhere and he was a grown man not a just turned 17 year old kid.
My understanding is that the settlement did exceed coverage. They were covered up to $1 mil, and the insurance company put that on the table (according, I believe to O’Mara in an interview) some time ago. Whatever was settled over and above that is going to have to be assessed from homeowners themselves. And it is likely that their liability insurance costs will be going up.
@Lurker,
The management company’s liability insurance may also be tapped if they wrote and published and mailed out the communications promoting GZ as the local crimestopper.
That is a small HOA board, and distributing their newsletters to 260 owners, many absentee landlords out of the city or out of state, would be an overwhelming task.
Likely the management company sent them out with the monthly billing for HOA fees and assessments. It’s standard practice.
FYI, to get Sanford PD approval for police patrol of RATL streets last fall, which had to be ratified by the City Commission, the management company initiated the phone call to SPD and took the HOA president in for the meeting with Sanford PD to get the ball rolling. Sanford PD send me the records of the meeting, pursuant to the Public Records Act request I made to City Manager Norton Bonaparte. I wrote a report to Leatherman U. in January that included:
“Then there was the Home Owners Association Board – who eventually (December 10, 2012) got an agreement approved by the City Commission for Sanford PD to patrol its three private streets as if they were city streets (i.e. at no charge), and enforce its 15 MPH speed limits. Now, this service, by State law, was ALWAYS available to the HOA (Sanford PD provides it to 14 other HOA developments) but the HOA Management company only requested it August 20, 2012 (I have Kent Taylor’s e-mail to Sergeant Smith). The tragedy in all this is that the HOA did not request police patrolling of its roads BEFORE ‘the renegade patroller’ profiled Trayvon Martin – and ended up killing him.”
The management association is a professional business and manages other condo complexes. Of course they would have insurance. No business functions without liability insurance.
In the event the HOA Reserve Fund is tapped for part of the settlement, OR if the homeowners are assessed to pay part of the settlement (or to replenish the Reserve) then all those owners have to be informed of how much the settlement was.
Thanks Piranhamom. In my experience–which is extremely limited in this area–developers tend to handle management, for a fee, until houses are sold and the development filled. At that point they pull out and new owners are frequently surprised to discover that they are in fact responsible for ongoing maintenance and the like–which they farm out to a management company, although they frequently discover that they have to pony up more than they were accustomed to. So there is often some confusion about the homeowner’s real level of responsibility. Living in a “gated community” (or one with a fence around it) may seem like an ideal, until you realize that it’s just one more thing to pay for, be responsible for and ensure is in good working order all the time.
I mean, who would think that you have to (or can) ask the police to patrol your streets?
@Lurker.
The RATL streets (all three) are private and built to “private road standards” instead of County or City “public road standards.” Likely they are much narrower than urban streets, with less ROW or no ROW at all (the developer wants to build on as much land as possible, and use less for roads).
You’ll note RATL has 15 mph speed limit. So, on a “private road,” in a gated community, the cops can’t patrol, like they can’t drive through your yard without permission (unless in hot pursuit).
But the FL legislature recognized that there are thousands of these condominiums in the state without effective traffic patrol, so they set up a process cities can follow to allow police patrol of their private streets – for free. As Sanford PD reported in January, they have 15 condo developments just in that small city that they patrol.
After executing the contract with Sanford PD that permits access to SPD traffic patrols, the contract must be approved by the City Council (which I think may actually be called the Board of Commissioners – the local governing body) – and for RATL that happened last December.
A condo association for a development of that size really needs a management company. HOA’s are quasi-governmental units. Few owners are willing to serve. A number of owners bitch constantly, expecting the HOA to interfere with neighbor-to-neighbor snits. The work is non-paid, constantly criticized, and never ends.
Nevertheless there are some really nice people living in condos. When you’re ready to chuck it all you get a phone call saying “thank you for getting my kitten out of the tree,” and you’re back in the saddle again.
I serve to keep the nazis off our board. One former director constantly followed folks walking their dogs and wrote them up if the dog took a whiz in the park. He collected “dog do” he found and deposited it in a plastic baggy on one dog owner’s front door – and bragged about his “effective patrol.”
I’m a farmer, and I know “dog do” and could see right away this wasn’t it. I got it analyzed, and as expected, it was a gift from a local coyote. That’s the high-level expertise I bring to my Board …
I don’t consider these to be real gated communities, They’re just designed by the developers to have this as a selling point, while being merely “fenced” communities, offered to poor people with big ideas, who wish to aggrandize themselves beyond their real means.
Real Gated Communities have full time security staffs and are enclosed and secured. You don’t hear anyone complaining about HOA fees because the residents have plenty of lucre. Their cctv’s will all be working and there will be plenty of them. RATL is a “McGated Community”. Let this community have a sink hole open in the road and that’s the end of the community, the residents probably can’t raise enough to do the costly road repairs. The settlement probably adds about 400 a month to unit costs on a 50% occupancy rate. If the economy doesn’t recover soon RATL will become a gated ghost community.
“… a “McGated Community”.” That would be a good description. In Cherry Hill & Vorhees NJ, not far from here are some real & upscale Gated Communities. There is a guard 24 / 7 and 1 repeat 1 entrance. All of them have block / stucco / iron fences to keep Fogenites out.
Trained Observer, this is slightly incorrect:
This action took place before one of the owners or residents contacted the HOA and ultimately led only later to his enthronement as a the top neighborhood captain. See 2nd discovery statement by the lady who informed the HOA but, if I remember correctly, later joined the NW as block captain, claiming she did not do much.
T.O., I am not sure if this was know, if you have a source for it, I’d appreciate a hint. I seem to vaguely remember that Taaffe, well strictly he may have reasons to claim to not have known, stated he was not aware of it.
Strictly, O.T. I would like to add, had the HOA not known about the fact that Fogen carried a concealed weapon it may not change anything in the liability scenario, they had the duty to know it, since he acted with its consent. At least from my understanding of our laws.
LeaNder :
1) Residents complained about him before, during, and after Fogen’s reign as a NW coordinator .
2) As mentioned, insiders knew he patrolled when packing. Whether they blabbed about it, much less to broadcast or print media, is another matter.
you have to help me with this: “when packing”? Carrying?
leaNder’s desk inquires
yes. sometimes the phrase ‘packing heat’ is used, so ‘packing’ would be the shorter version.
thanks, fauxy, I think I understood packing heat in context. Pretty good image, anyway. That’s it in a nutshell, exactly why I do not believe for a second he forgot about the gun. Contradicts his, I always carry except for work. It’s either or.
leander — as a responsible gun owner (albeit one who rarely carries, unless on my way to the range), i find it impossible to believe that anyone can claim that they ‘forgot’ they were carrying. only a complete idiot would make such a statement, but therein lies the issue, no?
I have no opinion generally about gun holders not even CCL holders, with the exception of Jeralyn Merrit maybe. ;).
But I think Fogen is “a very special case”. Just as delusions, bias, anger, frustration and a gun are a dangerous mix. Besides admittedly, I suspect that he wanted to correct the false record of a successful arrest by NW in the RTL newsletter.subsequently. And in the struggle suddenly realized that an unlawful arrest was a felony too. No more pretrial diversion programs. Good night fauxy, at least for me.
Great points about RTL, Lonnie.
They’re liable because THEY KNEW George was “patrolling” with a loaded gun and endangering residents and they KNEW that he was chasing and targeting Blacks in the community and they KNEW that he was doing things that could lead to harm to people either living in or passing through the community. They put untrue and complimentary fictions into their newsletter about him to give him more power over innocent bystanders and it increased his sense of heroic untouchability so much that he felt free to kill somebody and so, predictably, he killed somebody. THEY KNEW it and they enabled him to kill.
Dennis you sound upset that the Martins won their settlement against the HOA
this pleases me
Well, I read Gladys Zimmerman’s retarded letter today and I wished God would massacre them with fire and brimstone.
@Dennis
Well, God doesn’t return evil for evil. He established a spiritual law that says “Be ye not deceived. God is not to be mocked. What one sows, the same shall they reap.”
That is why when people do not understand righteous judgment from unrighteous judgment, and good from evil, they should never use God in any of their diatribes such as the Zimmermans do. When George said that he would not change anything that evening because he believes it was all God’s plan, he mocked God.
GZ is going the spend the rest of his life in prison.
I was referring to the Zimmerman family here. LMFAO
Tzar, did you notice that Gilda was reading gz’s fairytale?
I can’t tell what she’s reading
Dennis, but you see, God will NOT massacre the Fogen Family with fire and brimstone. See? So that is why we have both criminal law (to punish convicted criminals who have been given due process) and civil law (to compensate persons who have been damaged). Because we do not, as a country, and Florida does not, as a state, rely upon God to right wrongs for us. Because we get together and decide what is a crime and what is a tort. See? So when somebody does what you dismissively call “some asshole killed their son,” they are not left standing there subjected to being judged for their RESPONSES to the killing. They are entitled to say that THEY were the ones damaged and THEY should have redress of wrongs. And our society has always agreed with that.
Of course, when the persons seeking redress are members of a disrespected class, they are criticized for seeking redress. That is prejudiced.
Oh, I think Dennis is smart enough to know that he’s the scum of the earth. He posts here because, like any self denigrating bigot, he feels compelled to announce to the world, episodically, that he hates himself. Researchers who have made it a point to meet people like Dennis, have told us that people like Dennis, who harbor the same ideas as he does, are usually worthless non-performing social failures. Who, like Fogen, people of consequence cannot afford to have around. But, as Robert Z jr would say: I do not write this to give offense to you Dennis, you are a decent American, just not quite as decent as most here would like. But hey, what can you do? If life gives you turds you make a cesspool to swim in, right Dennis?
Now, head back over to the outhouse and invite your friends to come swim with you.
“Dennis you sound upset that the Martins won their settlement against the HOA
this pleases me”
@Tzar,
the pleasure is mutual!
The HOA obviously think they are liable, they coughed up the moolah didn’t they. Dennis you would be better complaining about the instigator and killer profiting from the childs death if you care about your credibility. Of course the parents want people to be held responsible and writing lines on a black board is not appropriate punishment, the only thing that can punish when prison is not applicable is financial punishment.
I’m sure you are aware that It’s been done for years, this is not the first case of financial payment as compensation…it is however the first case i am aware of where the person arrested can beg and solicit funds so he and his family can quit their jobs and troll the media whilst the nations pond scum keep rewarding them for killing that black kid that had it coming.
Yes, you are wrong.
The HOA is liable. The Zidiots say he is self appointed when it is convenient and appointed at other times. There were meeting held by the HOA to inform the residents about him, there was a flier posted and sent, there was a meeting after the murder in which one resident who wanted the police chief to know many complaints had been filed about Fogen patrolling which is against the law and worse yet……with a gun.
Your blood money comment has 2 sides…..who started begging first???? Fogen. Who filed the first civil lawsuit…..Fogen, against NBC, and for using his own words.
I have no problem with Trayvon’s family suing them and Fogen for wrongful death.
HOA is liable because they continued allowing Fogen to go on his delusional “patrols” of the “black crime ridden” complex, even after numerous complaints of aggressive and violent behavior and stalking
Yep and they also instructed residents to contact him with their complaints. Apparently not many have read the newsletters, Well, you can easily find them on my evidence pile just use the on site search box in the upper right. This is the link to the master revisable timeline
From the desk of racerrodig
Lonnie, keep that timeline up, I can’t wait for this entry..
(Date) (Time) (Place) Fogen convicted of Murder in the 2nd degree.
U Betcha!!!
Dennis, I just read this comment this morning; otherwise, I couldn’t understand why people were getting so riled up at you.
What you have said here shows a basic misunderstanding of how the system misfunctions and, ultimately, how the system fails.
First of all, specifically about the HOA liability, the lawyers who represented the HOA and who negotiated the million-dollar settlement had many more facts than are available to us. THEY knew how many police reports had been made prior to Trayvon Martin’s death from residents, visitors or guests in RTL, saying that they were harassed, stalked or chased — or even confronted and insulted — by Fogen. THEY knew how many times the HOA had been made aware of complaints about Fogen’s contact. We don’t know that yet. The SPD, when sent a FOIA request for that information, pretended it had NOTHING but apparently a news report (that I READ back in March 2012) said that an HOA member was escorted out of the March 1, 2012 meeting because that member was upset that his or her complaints about Fogen had not been acted upon, and that was only a small blip that leaked out to the press before being suppressed by Billy Lee, Wolfinger and the proFogenites.
The HOA knows full well what part they had in enabling Fogen to commit murder, but just to reiterate what we are able to discern in spite of the fog surrounding this issue:
1. HOA put out newsletters claiming that Fogen was a crime-fighter and a crime-solver and that he had the confidence of the community in his authoritarian behavior. This affected the community (not to adequately protect itself against him) and it affected HIM (to promote himself to the position of general-hero-and-decider-and-identifier-of-suspects).
2. HOA knew about, and did not seek to interfere with, Fogen’s armed patrols.
3. HOA knew about, and did not object to, Fogen’s targeting African Americans including those who lived in RTL and those who happened to be walking around looking about.
4. HOA gave Fogen his sense of security and invulnerability to law, without which he would never have DARED kill Trayvon Martin.
But more than that, the way the law works to remedy bad things is different in the criminal law realm (where the “remedy” is punishment of the perpetrator, who has to be proven to have committed an offense that is already described in law as a crime, and for which a certain punishment is also prescribed) than in the civil law realm. I doubt that you would object if your lawyers got you a big settlement for the following fictional (I hope nothing like this has ever happened to you or ever will) event: Your three-year-old daughter was run over by a drunk hit-and-run driver who was not arrested until you kicked up a huge fuss with the help of MADD and other organizations. Finally he was arrested and charged but you were being characterized as a negligent parent to have permitted your daughter to play near a street. After you were totally slandered and your daughter had seven operations to get her to the point where she could walk and return to school, and your family withstood all the tension, stress, impoverishment and other problems that attended, you sued the owner of the vehicle for allowing the drunk to borrow his car when the owner knew or should have known that the guy had two priors for DWI and his license had been confiscated. You got a million-dollar settlement.
Your kid would still be alive. You would have gotten money for something that, technically, the owner of the vehicle had not done to you.
Without that kind of liability, all we have in our law is a shaky system where (a) prosecutors have ABSOLUTE discretion to charge or not charge crimes; and (b) perpetrators have no ability, in general, to help make amends for what they have done to wreck your life; and (c) the society will not kick in and automatically help you get through whatever hard times result from being victimized, injured, damaged, etc. and you are just looked upon as money-grubbing good-for-nothings if you haven’t got money; and (d) nobody has incentive to try to prevent terrible things like the actions of drunk drivers or self-important racist murderers unless they bear responsibility of some sort for bad outcomes.
And all like that.
I’m tired of explaining this — isn’t it obvious?
very good Malisha.
X2
Perfect, Malisha!
I assume these two words are switched
professor, please delete this post after you’ve read it
do you mean 4 seconds and not 40
and the word “is” is missing
Professor please delete my correction posts after you’ve dealt with them as they are insignificant grammar issues, irrelevant to the conversation about the substance
Professor
this paragraph has a double sentence
Thanks for this important article, Professor. Do you mean that Trayvon’s shriek lasted 40 seconds or four (4) seconds? I think if that shriek had lasted longer than it did, I would have sustained actual brain damage listening to it. It is astonishing to me that ANY human being could pull the trigger while the person he was aiming at was wailing like that. It also shocks me that the neighbors who KNEW there was an armed man outside chasing, confronting, terrorizing and then killing a kid who had no idea why he was suddenly locked into a nightmare, and who THEN learned that they had witnessed a murder, were as calm and quiet about the event, after the fact. Blessings on those neighbors like Witness 18 who actually insisted upon being heard, and who honestly described what THEY HEARD. Shame on people who refer to human beings who are affected by hearing such an atrocity as “hysterical teacher” or any such dismissive and disrespectful terms.
Crump is doing an excellent job. Trayvon Martin’s parents deserve him for their lawyer; many kudos to him and the whole team.
When O’Mara gave up the SYG hearing we all heard the trap snap. Although NOTHING can get the sound of that shriek out of my mind, I don’t mind saying I loved the sound of that trap snapping.
Just gonna have a seat here and 5 star this puppy before I even read a word. my 6th sense tells me it’s gonna be a doozy 🙂
The defense is broke.
http://www.gzdefensefund.com/donate/index.php/updates-2/20-zimmerman-legal-defense-fund-trust-april-2013-update
GOOD!
Deservedly so.
One of the two of them needs to be looking for work.
No one is crazy enough to hand GZ a job and considering how long ShelLie has been out of work she’ll be lucky to even get an interview.
To lurker yea why can’t someone from the Treehouse give fogen a job.
So you say, lurker. Yet this delusional pair finds it so much easier to sleep in late, sit around, chow down, call their freebie lawyers, chow down, watch a little TV, chow down, read some drafts, nap, chow down, and plan their great life after the money starts rolling in again, all the while basking in the notion that America supports their cause. Their sense of entitlment knows no bounds..
I wonder if Z was able to collect any unemployment after he lost his job? But–it would seem as though someone in George’s vast circle of friends and supporters must need some grass mowed, or some painting done, filing or something or other. And despite the outstanding perjury charge, it would be hard to say that there’s anything wrong with Shellie that would keep her from fast food, carrying bedpans or the like.
Face it folks, some day, regardless of the outcome of the trial they are going to have to come out of their cave (although for George it’s likely to be much later rather than sooner). The social worker in me says that Shellie should be moving forward with some kind of employment and George needs to stop whining for kindness of strangers to help him out.
O’Mara may have thought that the notion of having to hide out in disguise and bullet-proof vest made him more evocative of sympathy. But at this point he’s just looking like a lazy layabout.
Rayvenwolf, even if someone sympathized with Fogen and thought he was the best guy on earth, now that they see what has happened to the HOA, you can BET the FARM that they won’t hire him even to stand there like a “cigar-store Indian” saying “welcome” to people at a gun show! Would you hire him considering the record of suing one employer for $18,000 and not showing up for a deposition, endangering another employer by throwing a woman across the room in a rage so she broke her ankle, getting fired by a third employer by creating a hostile work environment for a Middle Eastern co-worker, and the crowning glory of getting your employer in a volunteer job on the hook for a million bucks?
OMG there should be a bumpersticker in Florida: HIRE FOGEN, pay the pipers.
Like I said he’s toxic, as you can see, everyone who associates with him, winds up having to pay!
Ha, Malisha. He’s the poster boy for untrustworthiness and no cred.
One true thing O’Mara has said: That Fogen likely would be unemployable for the rest of his life.
That, I think we can bank on.
I don’t believe it but I really wish it were so
Other Expenses: $2,257.50
Okay, so living expenses, expert fees, legal costs, and security are listed. What could “other expenses” be? Maybe legal fees and costs for ShelLIE?
The text mentions medical as other – perhaps that weight gain is causing problems . . . rotten teeth from too many poptarts?
@Two sides
I missed that part. GZ’s weight gain, being so fast, would surely result in health problems. Diabetes is one. He already had digestive problems and ADHD, requiring medication. Honestly, I want to see him healthy to stand trial.
MOM says “other” is for medical and GPS. Isn’t that ankle jewelry only costing around $8 a day? Are they still whining about paying for that? Maybe the stress of that $250 is what’s running up the $2000 or so in medical bills.
@Xena, Other Expenses 2,257.50, MO was spent on antacids, time released extra strength Motrin and snaks for West to keep up.
60k for 8 months of living expenses, 56k for security, 40k for defense offices and 35k building the defense case, 3-6k for expert witnesses.
In court Omar told JN defense could not afford to pay expert witnesses and there would be none for the trial yet its’ posted where money was used for expert witnesses, really where are they????
Unless defense is paying experts to fine tune his tinfoil hat reception so no one will detect his connection with CTH……
@ic2fools
From the Office of Xena
O’Mara said he would get his wife as an expert witness. Maybe she is the only one who agrees with him. 🙂
From the desk of racerrodig
Moron O may very well have his wife as an expert, but I think she’ll throw him under the bus. Just thinking having Fogen over that one day for dinner pissed her off.
I read that O’ Mara plans on calling an editor of “Guns & Ammo” who will testify that since the bullets come out of the barrel really fast, it’s Trayvon’s fault for not dodging it. Because that’s about all they can hope for.
@racerrodig
From the Non-Law Office of Xena
GZ probably blows up O’Mara’s phone when the Mrs. wants to get busy. If they invited GZ over for dinner, no wonder Mrs. O’Mara would be upset — she had to cook enough for 10 people.
From the desk of racerrodig
I have it on very good authority that there was a phone call that was recorded and went like this.
(phone ringing) Mrs. O’ Mara “Hello, O’ Mara residence”
Fogen “…..um, Mrs O’ Mara, this is Cheorge and I need……”
(phone slams down)
(phone rings again)
Fogen “..um, please don’t hang up, I really need to speak with Mark”
(phone slams down)
(phone rings again)
Fogen “Mrs. O’ Mara, it’s about money and I really need to……..”
Mrs. O “…Hold on……………..Mark…….PhatFogen’s on the phone.”
Mark O “…….George, why are you calling so late……”
Fogen “…um, well it’s about money, and I need to…..”
Mark O “Great, I can use some form of payment to ease the financial strain on my……..”
Fogen “….what ? I’m not sure you understand, I want you to make NBC pay me now and I…….”
Mark O “….No George, I told you, just because you sued them, it doesn’t mean you WILL get paid, it……..
Fogen “…but my supporters all said that I’ll live………”
Mrs. O’ Mara cuts in “Hang that God damn phone up now, and if he calls again Mark…………. I’ll break YOUR fingers !!”
Fogen “….wait, did she call me Phat ???”
(phone hangs up)
Just posted Omar filed with Court:
Affidavits of Attorney fees pursuant to Motion for Sanctions against SA Office for Discovery Violations
Click to access fee_affidavits.pdf
West is charging 350 an hour wants 1,400 dollars and Omar is charging 400 an hour and wants 1,600 dollars.
Ad Nauseam Motions bombarding Court is unstable desperation. Omar is CrayCray Filing Motions before rulings. This makes it two in one week. Unseal documents and now this.
My goodness Omars phone should be melting by now, he has everyone heated and in a tissy. Courts to Bill Collectors.
What is Shelly going to do for a living when this is over? Not that I care.
Initially the Other Expenses was explained as stuff like pizza for the volunteer interns.
@lurker
Oh. And here I was thinking that cash sent to GZ’s legal defense fund through the mail paid for the pizzas. 🙂
@ic2fools–I am guessing that this pertains to the deposition that had to wait for a court ruling prior to videotaping? If that is the case (although I would think it would also include the hourly rate for the videographer), I think if I were JN, I might give it to them, based on BDLR admitting that the notice of deposition DID include their intention to videotape and he just missed it.
On the other hand, if this is about the withholding info nonsense, I don’t think he has much to stand on, as the info would have been available to O’Mara had he gone ahead with deposing Witness #8 in a timely manner.
Ooh I’m so frustrated! Why is everybody talking about throwing Fogen under a bus? There’s no bus COMING. There’s a train coming. If everybody throws him under a bus the train will MISS HIM! 👿
People aren’t buying their crap anymore.
Their most recent filing for the settlement to be unsealed contains something that BDLR should move to have the defense sanctioned. There might also be a cause of action by Sybrina against the defense. The defense will need more money.
When you posted this, I didn’t know what to say. I like Just Me’s response, caps intended and all!
Good.
Finally, people coming to their senses. Great news!!.
|||=> Tick Tock! Clink Clank <-|||
Thank you for the most excellent article. You were right, well worth it, and it deserves a second read.
Posting this letter from Mrs. Z here because of it’s contents dated today, attack Benjamin Crump full on, in a couple of places.
Click to access a-letter-of-fratitude-from-fladys-zimmerman-041113.pdf
(except that Mrs. Z does NOT want certain people to read it and puts conditions on those who continue past that point in her letter, so she has the freedom to write and publish this widely, yet will accept no criticism).
Mrs. Z can only consider her son, but then so can Trayvon Benjamin Martin’s grieving Mother who will never see her son again, who died for no reason, had Mrs. Z’s son not followed, stalked, and killed this young man who was not doing anything wrong.
Seems a very appropriate moment to bring this LLMPapa video statement to the fore, as the defense spings it’s newest media campaign on the back of Glady”s letter, what, to get more money by trying to regroup their ‘masses’?
This is simply a beautiful tribute to a mother, and to a father.
Thank you, papa.
I still have a rough time watching Sabrina or Tracy
The indignity of it all gets to me
The indignity of having to ask for justice you are owed.
The indignity of having to be political with the expression of your anger.
The indignity of having to be nice, when you are angry and have every right to be, out of the fear that it may cost you your deserved justice, it may be the excuse they can use to steal it from you.
The indignity that your justice, your rights and the humanity of your son is up for debate.
then there’s the pain, I have heard that shriek and I know what it does to me, so I can’t fathom what it has done to them, but I can see it on their faces.
This one gets me every time, Papa.
Those pictures of trayvon in that orange shirt was taken 9 days before he was killed
Amen, papa.
I will pray for Mrs. Zimmerman.
Where was this posted? I note that it is “From the Desk of Robert Zimmerman, Jr.”
He posts the “family” letters at Scribd.com.
@twosides LOL, he posts JR letters that are purported to be from the family or Sr or Gladys. He’s as bad a nut case as fogen.
I hope she too rots in hell, if there is one. What an evil person. I could not care less what she has to say. She’s a rascist POS.
Gladazz doesn’t have enough sense to show any class or keep her lip zipped. Two more dates she can add to her scrapbook of memories are the day Fogen gets convicted and the day he gets sentenced to decades, if not life, in the slammer.
Mistreated her son? Mistreated her son? what the$%^^ . What about all the people her son has mistreated? what about Trayvon Benjamin martin. a kid who never did any harm to anyone. He suffered the ultimate in mistreatment. He was hunted down and murdered by her son. He was restrained by his shirts preventing his escape when he was killed. What about Sybrina Fulton. she heard the instant of her son’s death. same for Tracy Martin. Can this family be any less selfish and nasty. No wonder Zimmerpunk is the scum bag he is.
Amen kllypyn!
The other night, I was re-listening to a press conference O’Mara held about GZ being able to pay bond, and he stated along the lines that GZ had parents.
Funny thing. Mama Zim’s diatribe talks about people mistreating GZ, but he practically exhausted his defense fund paying hotel fees for himself and his security. That in fact, he is being sued for $28,000 in unpaid invoices for security services. Mama Zim did not allow him and ShelLIE to move into her house where security would have also been provided for her, Papa Zim, and grandmother. She prefers to live like a vagabond and let her baby boy be homeless.
O’Mara — one year ago. He has conducted himself opposite of what he said a year ago.
Xena, stark contrast from last year this time, to what has transpired since. His true coours, then or now, one has to wonder.
What on GOD’S EARTH do I care if she will or will not “accept” criticism. Here’s some — just to exercise MY First Amendment Rights:
I criticize Gladys Zimmerman.
I think she’s full of it.
I think she’s knowingly defending a liar and a murderer.
I know that technically, now, he’s only a liar and a killer and so far he is only an “alleged murderer” but I’m not a judge and I’m not sworn as a public official to uphold the constitution and I’m calling him a murderer because I believe he is one. I am not impartial; I’m against her son. I believe I should be.
Hearing Fogen’s NEN call I already formed the opinion that he was a f*cking punk. I formed the opinion that he was a ne’er-doer well and a fussy little tattle-tale a55hole with no courage and no responsibility or accountability and no sense of propriety. I was ashamed that he was an American because he would then color how Americans were regarded world-wide.
Hearing Fogen’s interviews AFTER the NEN call I became even more ashamed of him. And that’s just because he and I are both Americans.
If I were his MOTHER I think I would DIE of shame.
I don’t know why Gladys doesn’t, except for the fact that she don’t shame easy.
Damn, she has a lot to be ashamed about and apparently doesn’t even know that. Ignorance probably IS bliss!
Hey Gladys: KEEP READING. This IS meant for you.
Shame on you!
{{Bravo}} yes Mrs z you should be ashamed! That letter was despicable
That’s actually Jr’s directive. LOL.
I don’t know how much any of the Zimmermans “know” in a certain sense. My assessment is that it is a pretty sick family all the way around. And the level of denial about sky high. I do believe that George walked into the SPD fully convinced of his own story regarding self-defense and I think that the rest of the family has followed suit.
The problem is that denial is a very heavy psychic weight to tote around. It requires a continual level of opposition to any facts that might enter in to disturb the story. And the level of anger at any persons who disbelieve is also high.
I suspect that this family has been denying multiple dysfunctions surrounding George and probably the entirety of family interactions for a very long time.
I don’t have it in me to become angry at Gladys or Robt Senior. They are both old and likely quite exhausted from the fences of hatred that have kept their family of lies together. Their kind of fantasy results in real physical symptoms. It would be nice if they got help and could die in peace some day, but I don’t expect it.
The younger generation, however, each individually have an opportunity to shed the family secrets and seek a healthier life (yes, George, even in prison). I hope that they ultimately come to realize that.
@lurker
I see it that way with a slight difference; i.e., GZ walked into the SPD fully convinced that they would deem him deputized law enforcement, and declare it a “good shoot.” That is one reason why he referred to Trayvon as the “suspect” in his written statement. GZ was convinced that he had authority to stand in legal judgment of Trayvon.
Lurker, I don’t actually think Fogen was convinced yet, when he got to the station house on 2/26/2012. Later, I am sure he convinced himself of the whole thing but at that time, I think he still really understood what had happened (he had murdered some kid he was sure would turn out to be a criminal anyway so who cares) but was playing his part in the charade so he could get away with it. The reason I say that is that Taaffe, with whom he was in contact, got the real story “of sorts” from him and eagerly told the media, “If Trayvon had only answered George’s questions there would not have been a problem.” That story persisted through Billy Lee’s stupid comments and through the first series of interviews that were publicized by people indirectly telling the story. I think the solidification of the “searching for an address while attacked savagely by thug” story took a week or more to occur.
I think, if she actually wrote it, that she had a lot of help. I didn’t look too carefully, but I didn’t see the kind of spelling, punctuation, or grammatical errors that I would expect to see from someone who isn’t proficient in English.
I noticed that too bettykath. I am sure Jr had a hand in the letter.
I wouldn’t give joonyur that much credit.
Yes, it did not sound as if she dictated. Said she wrote it in Spanish then someone helped ‘translate’. It may have a tone of the assistant, rather than someone speaking true to her heart, which it is not. 28 years as a court worker, she should have been able to write in English from her heart, whatever the characteristics this would give to her writing would have been so much more appropriate and effective than this family spokesbobbie version. (or could be family spokesfogen version too)
Made me wonder too.
Well this part seems to be a message to my friend unicorn:
Yes indeed, pray that this cannot ever happen again, if you truly, honestly with all your heart suspect a young man to be a thug, he has to be one. If you then shoot him, you only defended your life against this walking suspicion. How can you ever be forced to stand trial for that? Not in God’s greatest country on earth, his own city on the hill: America, the land of the righteous!
Mark O’Mara is a piece of work. smdfh
Click to access mot_to_unseal.pdf
WOW.. I just can’t… O’Mara is really making a mockery of the judicial system.. WOW… SMDH…
Did you notice the wording, “my client has INVOLVED himself”
Fogen is going to rot in hell and the IS God’s plan!
Re: Defense motion to unseal the settlement agreement.
How absurd and illogical!
MOM argues that Trayvon’s parents are biased, because they got a million-dollar settlement. MOM argues that “the receipt of monies … is evidence of potential bias” affecting the parents’ testimony.
> As support, he cites a jury instruction that’s designed to help the jury weigh witness credibility. The instruction lists questions for the jury to consider. One of the questions is: “4. Did the witness have some interest in how the case should be decided?” So, MOM says the jury needs to know about the parents’ bias resulting from “a financial interest” in the trial’s outcome!! AS IF THE KILLER’S HOLLOW POINT BULLET IN THEIR SON’S CHEST DIDN’T ALREADY give them plenty of “interest in how the case should be decided”??!!
> Another jury instructions question MOM highlights is: “6. Has the witness been offered or received any money, preferred treatment, or other benefit in order to get the witness to testify?” WTF??? AS IF THE HOA gave the parents a million dollars “in order to get [the parents] to testify” in the murder case??!! Did MOM not even read that question beyond the 9th word?
> Then MOM goes on to say that evidence of “this bias” – that is, THE FINANCIAL BIAS that justifies unsealing the settlement agreement – has already been revealed in discovery … LONG BEFORE there was any settlement or “financial gain.”
MOM never addresses how compensation for losses somehow magically becomes “gain.” And – as usual – he doesn’t cite any legal authority for his request to unseal the settlement or for his arguments.
What planet does this defense gang hail from?????
O’Mara is getting this bull from the CTH. WTF is wrong with him to take advice from a racist group of people and actually put it in a motion before the court? OMG!
This is what O’Mara is saying about Tracy and Sybrina:
If not but for the fact that the victim’s parents are not financially secure, I would have been able to convince them to testify to the benefit of the defendant on the threat that not doing so would result in their inability to be gainfully employed for the rest of their lives. Their reputations would be such that they would be humiliated to come out in public.
Now that they have over a million dollars, I cannot use the threat of poverty and humiliation against them.
My first thought about the alleged bias of Trayvon’s parents as “witnesses” was, how can their interest as his parents possibly be enhanced in any way shape or form no matter HOW many millions might be settled upon them?
The narrative that O’Mara has been attempting to build is “Zimmerman was innocent until Crump came on the scene and started building an illusion of guilt.” He only has to convince six people, though and most of what has gone into building that narrative is never going to make it into court. But, a lot of other stuff will.
@Xena–the treehouse folks have a whole ugly made-up narrative about Trayvon’s parents. It has to do with Trayvon being raised by some other relative, abandoned by his mother and on and on. They prefer to believe that all black people are unemployable crack-heads on welfare.
Yuck!
Did he get his legal degree out of a crackerjack box?
Are we to make sure the parents are not biased against their son’s killer? How can we do that?
Can we do that by having them be mentored by Junior? Or perhaps they should be “rehabilitated” by Gladys? Or maybe Osterman should explain to them that Fogen has Black friends? Oh I know — Taaffe should teach them how to plant corn!
We wouldn’t want the victim’s parents to testify if they’re going to display bias would we? After all, Fogen’s family is so American that it is unbiased and impartial. The Fogen Family just identifies thugs wherever it sees them, without regard to race, color or creed: That’s the Afro-Peruvian way! (See? They take the “high road” about everyone one of their family members has to kill.) 😈
@malisha ~
reckon it’s time to send in the big guns to teach tracey and sybrina the error of their ways?
rent-a-black friend oliver will be delighted, i am sure. 🙄
How about all the forensic evidence, the witnesses, the 911 call, the Fogen NEN call, the geography, the timing, the phone records, the history of the defendant, the ballistics, etc? None of these have a connection to either party. How about the cops? None of them have connection to either party and just there to upload the law and the facts.
What about omara and fogen’s lies? What about omara’s potential bias? Omara has lied repeatedly about everything and anything and even scammed the court with the defendant regarding money and the passport, as well as the evidence and what happened
Even with their bullshit allegations, it would apply moreso to Omara and Fogen than anyone else, and even if Tracy and Sybrina did not testify, they would still have a case against Fogen, as well as Omara
Its bloodclot nonsense
But lets see what the court says, becuz its bloodclot nonsense to me
@Kllypyn
(as racerrodig would say) “Nah!” Does Mark O’Mara strike you as a crackerjack lawyer?
“Does Mark O’Mara strike you as a crackerjack lawyer?”
I’m not so sure he’s actually that good.
On page 2, paragraph 12, item 4, is asked whether the witness had a financial interest in the outcome of the case. Although O’Mara ostensibly refers to Crump, the HOA board members were also witnesses with a financial interest in the outcome, and their interest was for George to be found innocently Standing His Ground, which would exonerate the HOA. Therefore, the HOA’s settlement indicates the HOA board members to have witnessed against George, even at a financial cost to themselves, because they estimated that it would cost them dearly to wait until after the trial.
Good point.
very good point, Luce. Made me so angry that I stopped to reflect. I vaguely had the idea in mind never mind what happens you can always spin it to your advantage. I don’t like this tendency though it raises resentments forcefully in the respective minds. …
O’Mara was well informed, we can now see. See cc GZ c/o Mark O’Mara. He knew it all along see Exhibit B Jun 13, 2013. How about looking at his specific argument concerning his “not opposing counsel” from the end of last year onward?
cercando luce says
at the risk of saying ‘me too, me too!’ that was the first thing that occurred to me.
@Cercando Luce, re:
Exactly. And those are the witnesses most likely to have become biased as a result of the HOA settlement. Those are the ones that O’Mara should be (and probably is) most concerned about.
The mentality of any HOA member could have changed to some degree toward an attitude of:
But what does “Maverick Mark” do? He runs to Court shouting:
ROFL … and SMH.
In most motions it is defendant fogen through his attorneys coming forward. This motion (and those looking for DDs medical records, iirc) have fogen alone involving himself in discovery. If the defendant insists on motions with which his attorney disagrees, is this the way to let the judge know, i.e., this is not my idea of a good thing to ask for but my client insists and I must do as my client directs?
Good catch… can’t wait for the answer.
Not sure, Betty, we had this before. It seems to happen over and over again. But as I said when it surfaced a while ago, it would make sense to take a closer look. Maybe I’ll check all motions. It’s not rare though. But maybe there is a pattern nevertheless.
anyway here is my latest “friend” on the issue, I was sure she would immediately pick it up and she did. This is how she ends:
Know what’s crazy about O’Mara’s latest filing? The Clerk already said that attorney Crump needed an order from Judge Nelson to seal the settlement instrument. I don’t know how Crump would make that petition since Trayvon’s parents are not parties to the criminal case.
On the premise that the Clerk is most likely to unseal the settlement, why does O’Mara file a motion for it to be unsealed? He claims not to have yet received a copy. Is he so sure that the contents are not beneficial to GZ and want the settlement released to the public? I mean, for instance, could the contents suggest or state that the HOA failed to confirm whether GZ had a valid Class G conceal carry license?
Why should he get a copy?
@kllypyn
Since attorney Crump filed it in the case, attorneys representing parties in the case should be served. That means the State and defense attorney are served with a copy.
Was the settlement filed specifically with the criminal case or was it just filed with the clerk? Many things get filed w/o attachment to any particular case.
@bettykath
The settlement was filed in GZ’s criminal case. The clerk of the court cannot take a document for filing unless it has a case number.
Under US Law, anyone whose right(s) and/or legally recognized interest(s) is/are directly affected by an act of the judiciary, the executive or non-state actors involved in (conflictious) litigation(s), is a party as far as that specific action is concerned. The individual(s) involved is/are Intervenor(s) (and in appellate cases: appellee) and does/do not need to be formally named ‘party’ by the rules/statutes governing the proceedings. This applies to Trayvon’s parents/Mr. Crump.
MOM wants to see if any HOA representatives or members are mentioned, so that their testimonies can be flamed before the public.
He should know by now that Tracy never said that wasn’t his son he said he wasn’t sure. He admitted killing Trayvon.
Yes, that will be the core topic in media for a while. “Feeding the Rage”, by alluring to the lowest instincts. Now O’Mara gets right down into the swamp of Fogen jun. The race card and/or the conviction card are only played for money, Jun. told the American audience over and over again. It’s not about a dead son, it’s about money only. … No surprise there.
Doesn’t quite fit, does it? Isn’t this usually meant to figure out if witness have received money to tell the things they are told to tell? They didn’t receive the money for having said something misleading, they received it since their son was killed by someone given a specific authority by HOA. But make no mistake some of this dirt will stick.
Stutzman already asked the same questions, could this influence the witness testimony and O’Mara would surely ask that during deposition,, exactly the way O’Mara told it to Lawyers.com. Stutzman not only shapes Orlando public opinion for him, in this context she has worked as an agenda setter all over America, where a multitude picked up her O’Mara’s rumors, which we find here again too.
Will she be as wicked as O’Mara is here?
Notice who he alludes to as special expert? A perfect tag team – O’Mara – Stutzman & partners. The scream all over again, this time by Stutzman for O’Mara. Media Matters? Is this your type of balance unitron?
Bahhh, this makes me so sick.
leander, you say it so well. it’s just disgusting. and did you see renee’s newest advertisement for gz and omar? I think she put out 2 today.
oh I forgot to say it; *the defense fund is in trouble again* by renee shuzerman aka. news reporter?!
If there is a hell, I hope RS rots in it.
…I hope she rots there too.
Okay, so Omara’s constant begging for blood money donations, does that not count as financial interest as well, considering Omara has misrepresented numerous facts and evidence in this case, more likely to show bias?
Didn’t Fogen’s parents also start a begging for blood money site? Considering they repeatedly lied, would that not make them biased?
Sounds like massive projection to me
U know what, meh
Sounds like child’s play and easy to argue and win over
Omara’s arguments are usually garbage and only tinfoil hats agree to it
One could just as easily bring up all of Omara’s lies and misrepresentations and his scam with the defendant to hide the money and the passport, and also show their lies, which prove bias
Besides, the parents nor Crump are actual witnesses to the incident of the murder and none of them were offered money to testify…
I am at a loss as to why MOM is always claiming not to receive information. When the story broke about the settlement, I thought the article said that the state and defense was given a redacted copy just like the clerk of courts. He is really really sleazy. He lies more than he client and it is disgusting!
What a wonderful entry!! The only thing that concerns me is where you talk about a racist getting on the jury. I wish I could be as convinced as you. I mean O’Mara gets to help pick the jury and considering who he’s been hanging with, I feel like he’s as racist as they are – and normally I would say that it might be wrong to judge him on that aspect alone, but it is also his behavior as well. I’m just not as convinced that he can’t get a racist or two on there. Before this case, I would have agreed, but since this case, I now realize they are everywhere and anywhere and sicker than I ever realized.
Ben and Bruce are a dynamic duo and this post illustrates it ever so well. MOM and West oughta read so they’d get a clue!
@Trained Observer
Speaking of West, he is the one on GZ’s defense team who argued in court about his hard-on for attorney Crump. All of the recent filings, including the Writ, were signed by O’Mara. Maybe West is on a long vacation?????
Summer sabbatical?
@Trained Observer
Hahahaha!!! I suppose we shall see on the 30th. Or, maybe West is busy representing paying clients while O’Mara is counting pennies trying to make ends meet because GZ’s calls and his case consume all of his time.
Could be West has done all he can do on plea bargaining front … given that BDLR won’t budge.
It took a couple of days to think of this, but didn’t George at one point say that he hadn’t profiled Trayvon because of race? He’d have done the same to anyone. When the racist on the jury realizes that the defendant would’ve killed a member of that juror’s race, that racist might also vote to convict. Without ever ceasing to be a racist, unfortunately.
I’m sure there will be some racists on the jury, but they will not be able to sway the whole jury to their position and they will be embarrassed when they can’t come up with any real reasons to acquit. Think of this: Had Sean really questioned Fogen in an assertive way, Fogen would have been in a position like that of racist jurors will be in trying to defend their position after a trial:
Sean: But why is walking in the rain in a leisurely way so suspicious to you?
Fogen: Because he should be trying to get out of the rain…
Sean: Maybe he likes walking in the rain.
Fogen: No he doesn’t. Nobody does.
Sean: Sure some people do; there’s no rule against that; different strokes for different folks.
Fogen: But he looks like he’s up to no good.
Sean: Specifically WHAT about him looks “up to no good” to you, other than walking in the rain.
Fogen: Well, another guy like him was loitering around Frank Taaffe’s place a few weeks ago…
Sean: No no, you can’t justify thinking this guy is “up to no good” by talking about some other guy. Besides how was the other guy “like” his guy?
Fogen: Well he was Bpa-lack, he was young, he was also a fucking punk…
Sean: You have no reason to call this guy or the other guy bad names, now, who do you think you are?
Fogen: Um…forget it, OK? Nevermind.
Sean: You just mind your own business and go about doing what you were set out to do —
Fogen: I was going grocery shopping…
Sean: Then you go on and buy your groceries. I don’t want to hear about you bothering this young Black guy, you hear?
See, on a jury, nonsense spouted by a few racist jurors can be confronted and controverted by the others and the racists will begin to see that they aren’t going to be able to bully the others into an acquittal. They’ll back down. You can bet that any of the racist bullies who squawk all night on the Outhouse would back down if outnumbered too. Only if there are six total stone racists on that jury who are much better liars than Fogen will there be an insoluble problem.
Follow
>^..^< Another fine chess play.
Good point, Mr. L. This filing puzzled me for a long time as did the defense team’s continued insistence upon deposing Crump, but you make those issues crystal clear for a legal novice like me.
I agree – the defense tactics are Breitbarting and are reprehensible. I do hope though that the court will give the defense a long, long leash and that Fogen is fairly and squarely convicted. I don’t think his supporters will ever concede and will continue to add to their long list of blame its for his errors and the corrective measures applied.
Can Mr Crump sue Omara for false accuations.
Indeed! I couldn’t sleep after hearing those blood curdling screams. I had to ask God to heal my mind. It was too much.
I knew the instant i heard those screams,that was a teenager screaming. I never bought his story in the first place. Sybrina knew instantly that was her son.She became hysterical when she heard it especially when they ended with a gunshot. No woman should hear her son die.
Agree on all counts.
No one in their right mind and having any integrity at all would believe for a second that those are the screams of the killer!
The killer tried to claim the screams as his own to: (1) explain them away, and (2) bolster his “self-defense” story. But that scam fell apart quickly and completely, thanks to the recorded 911 call.
Agree with you both. It is terrifying to listen to, a cold-blooded murder caught on tape. Thus, it has not made sense to me nor will it ever that people could support Fogen. Supporting a murder might not be as evil as committing one, but it seems just so inexplicable and unconscionable. I guess rascists do it because rascism is a form of terrorism and because they believe people of African descent are animals. This is hardly comforting because their their thoughts and feelings are not only delusional but vile. In any case, I hope Fogen is locked away for the rest of his life.
Yes, we know those were martin’s screams for too many reasons to list here.
One thing that has always bothered me tremendously was Serino telling witnesses it was GZ.
WHY? Why would he do that? Do you think it was just because he believe what the cops at the scene (several of whom had a history with GZ) told him?
Serino’s first “interrogation” with GZ was not an interrogation at all, merely ticking off what Singleton had written down. By the next time they spoke (2/29 interviews) it is clear to me that neither Serion nor Singleton still believed GZ’s story, yet Serino AGAIN told stated that it was GZ screaming. Even wgen GZ said ‘it doesn’t sound like me.
Serino said- yeah- that’s you…
We KNOW it wasn’t. How different would this all be if Serino had gotten GZ to acknowledge it wasn’t him screaming instead of telling the world that it was? I don’t get it…
ANnone have any thoughts on this aspect of the story?
They had an eyewitness at that time, John, who had stated that GZ was the person who did the screaming. Of course later John changed that statement into he coudn’t really tell who was screaming.
Coupled with the injuries Fogen had, it probably seemed logical at the time. Although there were also witnesses who said the boy was yelling, and these still stand by that assertion. So why didn’t Serino go along with that?
@two sides,
This is my personal opinion. I think Serino and Singleton both knew GZ’s story was …, the day after Trayvon was killed, or as soon as they found out who Trayvon was, where he was staying and after they heard the nen call.
Serino stated, I believe it was an interview, he thought GZ was a softy. I think Serino thought GZ was playing cops and followed Trayvon and eventually tried to detain Trayvon, at which time he got his butt kicked by Trayvon. Serino never got beyond that story. It think the fact that he saw GZ as the initial aggressor, was enough for him to charge GZ with Murder 2 or at least manslaughter.
In my opinion Singleton had more of an open mind to the fact that GZ’s culpability went beyond being the initial aggressor. The interview with w11 is a good example. Serino kind of rushed through the interview, Singleton kept asking questions which at one point had w11 remember she actually heard some words spoken at the beginning of the altercation.
GZ is a good liar. most of you disagree with that. But he was good enough to botch the investigation. He was good enough to shine light on the problems of stand your ground’s wham bam thank you maam you walk away scot free..
My thoughts are simply that Wolfinger/Lee had already told Serino that Fogen was “the good guy” and that he was not going to be charged with any crime. Tim Smith had already firmed up the story by saying that the back of Fogen’s jacket was covered with grass and rain and that Fogen had been screaming for help “but nobody helped.” The thing was presented to Serino as a “fait accompli” and Serino knew that.
First! Yay!