I saw what you guys did there Ben and Bruce

Thursday, April 11, 2013

Greetings to all:

This post substantially exceeds my typical post. I had a lot to say, however, and I have been rewriting and fine tuning this piece since Tuesday night.

As you all know, Benjamin Crump represents Trayvon’s parents, Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin. He negotiated a settlement agreement earlier this year with the Homeowner’s Association at the Retreat at Twin Lakes (the HOA) whereby Trayvon’s parents agreed not to sue the HOA for the wrongful death of their son in exchange for the HOA paying them a certain sum of money. Although the specific terms of the agreement and the amount of the settlement have not been released to the public, I believe we can reasonably conclude that the HOA agreed to settle the case before trial because they believe that the jury will reject Zimmerman’s self-defense claim. If they had concluded that the jury would find him “Not Guilty,” they would not have had any reason to settle the case.

Benjamin Crump filed a copy of the confidential settlement agreement in Zimmerman’s criminal case file late last week after blacking out the settlement amount. He also provided copies to Bernie de la Rionda and Mark O’Mara.

The Clerk of the Court has since notified Crump that she does not believe she has a proper legal basis to keep the terms of the settlement agreement confidential. She told him that she will unseal the settlement agreement in 10 days, unless he obtains an order from Judge Nelson telling her not to do that.

Regardless what she does, the amount of the settlement probably will remain confidential since he blacked out the amount before he filed the agreement.

Since Crump was not required to announce or to file the settlement agreement, I have been attempting to figure out why he decided to file it and why he waited until the end of last week to do it.

I believe I know the answer.

When considered together with O’Mara’s recent decision to forego an immunity hearing later this month, members of the public now have two solid reasons to doubt O’Mara’s credibility and to question everything he has stated about the case. There cannot be any doubt that this is a devastating turn of events for the man who decided long ago to focus on wining his case in the court of public opinion where he believed he could control the message reported by the media before the trial started and hope that would somehow favorably influence a jury to find the defendant not guilty, despite the evidence. That strategy is falling apart.

I never believed his strategy made any sense unless he got very lucky and a racist Zimmerman supporter lied his way onto the jury with the intent of voting “not guilty,” regardless of the evidence. That seems about as likely to me as filling an inside straight on the draw in a game of poker. In other words, only suckers make that bet.

The inescapable reality is that this case will go to trial eventually and when it does, the jury will be instructed to decide the case based only on the evidence admitted during the trial. That jury, BTW, will have been screened as thoroughly as possible by the juror questionnaire and the use of individual voir dire to identify and excuse prospective jurors who may be biased or prejudiced.

Another inescapable reality is that the evidence admitted during the trial is going to paint a far different picture of the case against the defendant compared to the false and misleading narrative that O’Mara has been repeating at every available opportunity since he got involved in the case. To the extent that any members of the jury recall what he said before trial, they will soon realize that he did not know what he was talking about or he was lying. That most definitely is not a thought that O’Mara wants any juror to have during the trial.

Sooner or later, he will have to face the jury and present a coherent final argument for acquittal based on the evidence admitted during the trial.

Meanwhile, Mark O’Mara and Don West have been subjecting Benjamin Crump to a relentless effort to obtain a court order authorizing them to depose him regarding his contacts with W8, the witness known by the pseudonym Dee Dee assigned to her by the prosecution to protect her privacy. attack on his character and professional reputation in an effort to discredit W8, the witness known by the pseudonym Dee Dee assigned to her by the prosecution to protect her privacy.

Cellular phone records establish that Dee Dee and Trayvon spent many hours on their phones talking to each other on the day that George Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon. In fact the records show that their phones were connected [detail]. Therefore, Dee Dee is the only witness who was in contact with Trayvon during the approximate 30 minute period leading up to his death. In effect, she is Trayvon’s voice from the grave and she presents a problem to the defendant’s claim of self-defense because she told Bernie de la Rionda that Trayvon told her he was afraid of. He told her that he ran to escape from the creepy man and believed he had successfully eluded him until the man suddenly appeared nearby on foot. She heard Trayvon say, “What are you following me for? She heard a deeper voice respond, “What are you doing here? Then she heard what sounded like physical contact between the two followed by Trayvon screaming, “Get off.” She lost the connection and was unable to reconnect with Trayvon.

George Zimmerman fired the fatal shot approximately one minute later.

That shot is preceded by an agonized shriek that abruptly ends with the sound of the fatal gunshot. The shriek sounds inhuman and it lasts for 40 seconds. It sounds like a desperate and panicked child protesting the certainty of imminent death without knowing who is going to kill him and why he going to do it. The shriek is audible in the background of a recorded 911 call from a neighbor who lived close to the scene of the shooting.

The shriek far exceeds any horror that I have witnessed and it will likely continue to haunt me for the rest of my life.

The combination of Dee Dee’s testimony and the shriek pose a major problem to the defendant’s claim of self-defense.

The defense scheme to discredit Dee Dee and blame Ben Crump for suborning perjury for dollars

To cast doubt on Dee Dee’s credibility, Mark O’Mara and Don West have accused her of committing perjury and Ben Crump of suborning her perjury. Never mind that they have no evidence to support their claim that she committed perjury. However, they do have her admission that she lied to Bernie de la Rionda while under oath when she told him that she did not go to Trayvon’s funeral or wake because she was sick and stayed overnight in a hospital. Apparently, despite the lack of materiality, which is an essential element of a perjury charge, they believe that admission is sufficient to support an accusation that everything she said was a lie.

Calling her an admitted perjurer, they now accuse Ben Crump of convincing her to lie. They are basically accusing him of providing her with a script full of lies to repeat when she testifies at trial.

Yes indeed, despite a lack of any evidence O’Mara and West have accused Ben Crump of concocting a scheme to have Dee Dee lie during the trial in order to fool the jury into wrongfully convicting an innocent George Zimmerman of second degree murder thereby setting up multi-million dollar causes of action against George Zimmerman for wrongful death and the Homeowner’s Association for negligently appointing and failing to supervise his activities as the captain of the neighborhood watch program contributing to the wrongful death of Trayvon Martin.

Finally, they claim they must be permitted to depose him under oath regarding this scheme in order to adequately prepare for trial.

Even though there is no evidence that Benjamin Crump encouraged or attempted to encourage Dee Dee to lie about what Trayvon told her and even though there were other witnesses present when he interviewed her by telephone that the defense has not attempted to interview or to depose, defense counsel continue to repeat their false allegations about Benjamin Crump and insist that the defense will suffer irreparable harm if the court does not authorize the deposition. Of course, they do not explain why they would suffer irreparable harm.

Benjamin Crump actually is the person most likely to suffer irreparable harm, if the court were to authorize the deposition since he cannot answer any question regarding any discussions he had with his clients about Dee Dee and the civil causes of action against the HOA and George Zimmerman because those discussions were confidential and protected from disclosure by the attorney-client privilege. Discussions with his clients about George Zimmerman’s credibility and the probable result of his self-defense claim are also protected from disclosure by the attorney-client privilege. In addition, he cannot provide any notes he made regarding the questions that he decided to ask her and her responses to those questions since that subject matter is protected from disclosure as attorney work product. In addition, he would be justified in refusing to answer any questions about his plans to sue George Zimmerman. In short, there are very few questions that he could answer, if a deposition were to take place.

With his motives, character and professional reputation under relentless attack by defense counsel and unable to defend himself due to the attorney-client and work product privileges, Benjamin Crump did the only sensible thing he could do under the circumstances. He retained Bruce Blackwell to speak for him and defend him from the attempted character assassination.

Judge Nelson denied their motion to depose Ben Crump with a written opinion in which she found that as attorney for Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin, Ben Crump’s communications with them are protected from disclosure by the attorney-client privilege. She also ruled that he acted as opposing counsel when he recorded a telephonic interview with Dee Dee in early March and provided the FBI with the original recording. This finding is significant because an attorney cannot depose opposing counsel under Florida law. She also ruled that his efforts to locate and interview Dee Dee constituted attorney work product protected from disclosure. She summarily denied their motion to reconsider and clarify her decision.

They have now filed for a writ of certiorari in the Court of Appeals asking it to reverse Judge Nelson’s decision and order Ben Crump to submit to a deposition.

The Court of Appeals entered an order yesterday granting Bernie de la Rionda and Bruce Blackwell 20 days to respond to the defendant’s petition.

I believe Bruce Blackwell and Benjamin Crump decided to file the settlement agreement to accomplish two objectives:

1. To place indisputable documentary evidence in the record to support his claim that he represents Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton and that he acted on their behalf contrary and in opposition to George Zimmerman’s best interests in his criminal case. The agreement also firms up his argument that he is opposing counsel as it indicates his intent to sue George Zimmerman for causing the wrongful death of their son, Trayvon, after the criminal trial concludes.

2. To figuratively smack Mark O’Mara, Don West and their client where it hurts the most on the eve of trial by publicizing documentary evidence that Zimmerman’s employer, the HOA, does not believe Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense will prevail at the trial. Coming on the heels of O’Mara’s decision to waive the immunity hearing, which he attempted to conceal by falsely claiming he could always bring it up later, publication of the settlement agreement sends a clear message to anyone following the case that the defense is in deep trouble, notwithstanding O’Mara’s massive propaganda effort to convince the public that the prosecution has no case.

Lawyers are required to have a good faith basis for the statements, arguments and objections they make. They are prohibited from knowingly or intentionally misleading the Court. The defense attack on Ben Crump and Dee Dee is based on a fanciful theory that is not supported by the evidence or the law. For those two reasons, I do not believe the defense effort to discredit and demonize Dee Dee and Crump is being made in good faith. Instead, the defense effort reminds me of political strategies and arguments that Andrew Breitbart used to discredit Democratic Party candidates for national office. Such strategies and arguments have no place in a court of law.

Efforts to discredit people by character assassination, uttering false statements and misrepresenting existing evidence can cause unpleasant real-life consequences to the people targeted. Therefore, I am not only offended by the defense team’s choice of tactics, I am disgusted that the defense team decided to harm Dee Dee’s reputation and Ben Crump’s professional representation.

Good lawyers take pride in what they do and they do not tolerate unfounded attacks on their character and reputation. I believe Ben Crump and Bruce Blackwell are extremely offended by the continuing bad faith defense effort to discredit Dee Dee and destroy Ben Crump’s professional reputation with false statements and misrepresentation of existing evidence.

I think they decided to file the settlement agreement to counter the defense team’s false narrative and misleading argument that there is no evidence that refutes the defendant’s claim of self-defense.

1,139 Responses to I saw what you guys did there Ben and Bruce

  1. Animaljunkie says:

    O’Mara, West & Corey are educated to the level ~> Doctor of Jurisprudence. Guess which ONE I believe actually deserves the title?

  2. ay2z says:

    New in the docket– motion to determine confidentiality of court records– does this mean there will be a hearing?



    04/12/2013 NTCF NOTICE OF FILING



    • ic2fools says:

      ay2z, I noticed on the courts site, page 2 Of Mr. Crumps’ document #2 is blacked out, however on Omar site it is not. hmmmm….

      Also Omar did post correspondence from Atty Benjamin Crump.

      IC finances are effecting that site too.

  3. colin black says:

    Xena says:

    April 14, 2013 at 11:13 pm

    I want that Tee!!! Speaking of which, why hasn’t Junior gotten a Tee with GZ’s pic and a slogan on it that he can sell to raise money? He can wear it during his media appearances. (Hehehehe

    Yes that pic from LMPappas last vt with the shiteating grin a the cape an mortar hat.
    Underneath the motto.

    Z Mans thee Man.

  4. colin black says:

    Me two Rachel Im a pasafist but that smirk makes me want to pass a fist to the back of skull….Break his face never mind a nose,

    • pasafist! LOL 😆
      except I kept getting the urge to kick his teeth out when I watched his stupid shit eating grin on Hannity. it was overwhelming.. I still get that feeling when I see a still of it to this day.

      • Rachael says:

        At least I know it isn’t just me. It really is like a reflex thing for me. And yes, it was and is still overwhelming.

        • well you are alone when it comes to stepping on a rake!!LOLOL I believed the cartoons!! 😉

          and I left it up to my step brother to knock my front tooth out by slamming the door knob into my face!
          FYI, no matter how much Elmer’s you use it won’t glue the tooth back on before your mom gets home and see you!

      • Rachael says:

        They probably didn’t have it back then, but superglue might have worked. LOL

  5. ay2z says:

    Duping Delight

    What is he pulling on us? Maybe he didn’t get his legal fees paid by Hannity, but he’s all (taking a cue from LLMPsps) ‘Chits n’ giggles’ when Hannity asks him to clear up, no legal fees paid thing. He got something for his appearance, and he delighted in the dupe.

    • ay2z says:

      (apologies Papa! Durned cat, can’t even blame for that typo!)

    • Rachael says:

      There is just something about that smirk that triggers my slapping reflex and makes me want to slap his lips right off of his face. And yes, it is very noticeable that it is there at all kinds of inappropriate times, not just when Hannity asks about legal fees – but watch him when he says that he said punks not coons.

      You know, until I saw GZ, I never even knew I had a slapping reflex.

      • ay2z says:


        (and in the interview with Serino, when he answers if he has trouble with black people?

        The answer is different than other ‘no’ answers. More like ‘No-oh-ho-ho-ho’ with that sorta chuckle inflection.)

        • PiranhaMom says:


          Of course Zimmerman would chuckle over Serino’s question about “You have any problem with Back people?”

          1) Zimmerman may be dumb as a peachpit, but if he knew if he uttered one racist word in acknowledment, he would be nailed on racial profiling;

          2) As was evident, he has no problems with Blacks — within 10 minutes he shoots them. End of any potential “problem.”

      • ay2z says:

        Need a Monty Python Video Making Kit for your slap reflex. Don’t have one. 😦

      • Rachael says:

        I just don’t know what it is. I can have someone yell at me, get in my face and curse at me and I can deal with it. But that smirk is SO disrespectful and SO full of BS that it really makes me want to slap him. I don’t know how to explain it. It is just this automatic thing, like when you step on a rake and it hits you in the face (believe it or not, I did do that once as a kid to see if it was like in the cartoons – yes, it was and I did see stars). It is that automatic and that fast. I see that smirk and smack!

      • ay2z says:

        Rachel, it’s the sideways ‘I’m pulling one on you’ smirk, obviously pulling one over on the ‘masses’ is disrespecful and we are especially taken back as he does this on his big self-promo show as he talks about following and killing the unarmed child. He entered that confrontation knowing full well he could start something and in the darkness, before time ran out to do it, he could use his preparation to killl and become the hero he always imagined himself to be.

        He actually broke into full smiles as he pulled this off.

        Your bop bag is in the mail by UBS’. (United Bop Service) Add personalization with your dupe smirk face to the elephant.


      • Rachael says:

        something like this would come in very “handy” for my slap hand reflex.

        Yeah. LOL thanks

      • type1juve says:


        I know what you mean. Fogen evokes emotions in me that I didn’t know I had. It’s hard for me not to hate him and that racist family of his.

      • racerrodig says:

        From the desk of racerrodig

        Funny that you as a lady cite a “…slapping reflex…” As a man who has to deal with some ass’s in the realm of FogenPhoole, I have more of “I’ll phuck you up” reflex…..for killing that kid.

        But, again, that’s just me. (Pardon my French)

      • Cercando Luce says:

        Now, now, defendant did say, didn’t he, that victim’s race had no weight in his decision to shoot him– he’d have done it to anyone!

        • PiranhaMom says:

          @Cercando –

          Right! Didn’t even have to be a member of the HUMAN race.

          GZ said they bought the 9-shot automatic pistol to shoot a DOG.

          (I live in farm country where it’s not unusual to have errant packs of dogs. I carry chew-sticks to throw at them. MilkBone is the best!)

    • ladystclaire says:

      I sure would like to see that broad grin when his GUILTY verdict is read, as well as his sentence. this LUMP OF NOTHING has really got some issues going on. I mean how in the hell do you murder a child, and then go on national TV do an interview about it with one of this country’s biggest racist and sit there smiling and smirking about it?

      He will be more than deserving of the beat down that he will get, when he is locked up in a Florida prison. BTW, he won’t be in PC forever and, even then if someone wants to get to his ass bad enough they will find a way to do so. they are waiting for him and, it’s quite evident.

      • Rachael says:

        And not only interview, but say you have no regrets, would have done nothing different and it is all God’s plan. I don’t even believe in “God,” but that remark, on top of all else in that interview is where I lost any ability to give GZ ANY benefit of doubt.

  6. Why can’t the Orlando Sentinel hire a decent journalist? I mean really!

    Crump: Don’t unseal the $1 million-plus settlement Trayvon’s parents received


    Benjamin Crump has formally asked Circuit Judge Debra S. Nelson to make sure the specific amount of the $1 million-plus settlement Trayvon Martin’s parents reached with George Zimmerman’s home owners’ association be kept secret.

    Trayvon’s parents, Crump wrote, “in no way wanted their son killed in order to pursue a civil settlement.”

    Crump is the attorney for Trayvon’s parents, Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin, and on April 4, Crump filed a copy of the settlement under seal in George Zimmerman’s court case file at the Seminole County Courthouse.

    A portion of it was available to the public for a short time the following day, but the total amount and the names of the parties making the settlement payments had been edited out.

    On April 4, Seminole County Clerk of Courts Maryanne Morse notified Crump that she intended to unseal it, saying it did not meet the legal standard required of a confidential filing.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Actually, I think this is one of Stutzman’s more serviceable bare bones pieces — except for the part about figures and payers being “edited out.” Those specifics were redacted. At least in this report, she managed to present two views and some background on the clerk’s position.

      If the Sentinel had anything on the ball, however, it would dig deeper and find some on-the-record sources willing to provide insights reflected in the professor’s Ben and Bruce post.

      Sentinel subscribers/readers deserve to know not only who’s doing and saying what, but why they’re doing it.

      • aussiekay says:

        redacted past participle, past tense of re·dact (Verb)

        1: Edit (text) for publication.
        2: Censor or obscure (part of a text) for legal or security purposes.

        redacted =edited out

      • Trained Observer says:

        Info is “there” in the motion … it’s been redacted via being blacked over, not “edited out.” Moreover, if sentences or phases actually had been removed or added, the revosed motion would have been edited. Just plain edited.

        P.S. Am in total snippy bitch/bastard mode, due to coffee maker just having blown a gasket.

      • Trained Observer says:

        This just edited (not redacted): Revised, not revosed.

  7. Jamie Foxx Makes A Bold Statement With Trayvon Martin Tee


    Jamie Foxx took to the carpet, and later the stage, wearing a shirt adorned with the faces of Trayvon Martin and the young children who lost their lives tragically at Sandy Hook Elementary.

    • Xena says:

      I want that Tee!!! Speaking of which, why hasn’t Junior gotten a Tee with GZ’s pic and a slogan on it that he can sell to raise money? He can wear it during his media appearances. (Hehehehe)

      • Rachael says:

        “Subtle as Jamie’s look was, it served as a reminder to us all that we must never forget the senseless acts of violence that led to the loss of those young lives.”

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Oops, now he will! I strongly suggest “Free the Sanford 1” – my apologies to the creator of that statement! 😀

      • ay2z says:

        Yes, excellent Tee.

        I’ve been picturing a blue Tee with a graphic of Papa and Crane on their Blue Honda Shadow, framed in a obder of orange, red, yellow, green bell peppers and pomegranates.

        Sleeveless lightweight Tee with a hoodie, just because. Cool!!

      • Cercando Luce says:

        How would he frame Big Z’s portrait? With all the shooters from all the pointless killings since 2/26/12?

        The Z slogan could be “No Justice, Please”

      • ladystclaire says:

        There was one person missing on that shirt that should have definitely had his likeness on there. Jordan Davis’s face should have been on there as well. They have made up some bracelets for Jordan and, if you send a self addressed envelope to his parent’s attorney’s office, you can get one and, it’s free. I will find that address and post it here.

    • ladystclaire says:

      @Xena, I would love to have one of those T-shirts as well.

    • cielo62 says:

      SG2~ GOOD! The more people connect faces and names to gun deaths, the more reform we can enact to save more lives.

  8. kllypyn says:

    An email i sent to mister nutcracker….Kelly Payne
    Dear Mr cracker or Bradman which ever you prefer. Your continued lies and slander against Trayvon and his family are quite disgusting. You know as well as i do That Trayvon was not killed in self defense. You also know as well as i do that Trayvon was begging for his life when he was killed. You know as well as i do that Zimmerman had Trayvon restrained by his shirts when he killed him. Trayvon was no match for a 208lb bouncer by himself in a fair fight Zimmerman could have snapped his neck like a twig. But we know based on the evidence you chose to ignore that Trayvon never touched him. In a fair fight the police would have found an unconscious teenager and an angry adult. Whether Trayvon missed 53 days of school is unknown,but highly unlikely because in most states if your child missed more than 20 he is called truant and the parents are taken to court. There are no known reports of Trayvon being deeply involved in drugs. Smoking weed a few times with your friends does not make you deeply involved in drugs.Also not relevant Another one of your lies. You are taking advantage of peoples ignorance and stupidity. The only one with a thug history is Zimmerman. Now you have a new one,Trayvon has a suppressed Criminal record. he never had any record. you are making assumptions and lying. No one knows why he was transferred from his other school there was a rumor he was bullied at that other school which was never confirmed. Also not relevant. You mention MMA style blows. an obvious lie. Trayvon never knew martial arts mixed or otherwise.If he had Zimmerman would have ended up in the hospital and Trayvon would still be alive. The man who said that has changed his story numerous times. His gun was on his right rear hip. It would have been impossible for him to grab it the way he described. Trayvon would never have seen it. the only way he could have grabbed his gun the way he described is if he knocked trayvon off then grabbed his gun aimed and shot him. His head was never repeatedly slammed into the sidewalk for nearly a minute.If it had he would not have been in any condition to fire a gun.Those injuries on the back of his head are 1 round puncture wound and 1 inch long cut.the blood from those wounds flow toward his face.He was not on his back when he got those injuries. . He did not get those from a side walk. He got those from a metal object. Trayvon never tried to smother him another obvious lie. He was never punched in the face 12 times or 30-40 times. All he had were scratches. no bruising no swelling no black eyes no broken nose. As for lying Zimmerman has done nothing but lie. maybe you and him belong together. Whether Dee Dee went to Trayvon’s funeral or to the hospital or somewhere is irrelevant and not material to the case.the only thing relevant is why there was a funeral in the first place.
    If Zimmerman had left Trayvon alone he wouldn’t be in trouble. You continue to trot out that lie that Trayvon was a gang member despite the fact he was unarmed. No gang member goes anywhere with out their weapons which these days would be a gun. If trayvon had been a gang member he would have put a bullet in his head just for following him. And we would never have heard of Zimmerman he would just be another statistic. You call trayvon a thug while trying to intimidate a witness. Which as it turned out those girls were not the Dee Dee you have been looking for. Keep it up when you get criminal charges you will have no one to blame but yourself. You so called conservatives always talk about morals christian values honesty and decency. You have no morals you are not honest and you were never a decent man. You are not a christian either. A true christian would not pull the crap you’ve been pulling and he would not support a murderer and slander a murder victim. I can’t speak for the Martin/Fulton family but if it were me i would have sued you long ago. So keep.posting those lies. You will eventually Dig yourself a hole you can’t get out of. There is never a justification for killing an unarmed person,especially a kid. If someone hits you you hit them back you don’t use a gun. Have a nice day KELLY D PAYNE

    • PiranhaMom says:

      Kelly, your writing is like the 50-lb roast turkey at Grandmother’s farmhouse on Thanksgiving – took a prodigious effort to develop it to this giant size, to prep and serve it – it’s intimidating as all get-out when you look at the bulk of it … but boy, when you’ve got a family as big as ours, WHAT SUSTENANCE!

      A blockbuster!

      Thank you.

      • PiranhaMom says:

        Who will post comment #1,000 on “Ben & Bruce?”

        It’s over 930 posts now, at a freckle past 8:00 p.m. EDT on Sunday. Tough to follow!

    • type1juve says:

      Excellent post refuting all of the lies coming from the tree house!

    • ladystclaire says:

      @Kelly, this is very well spoken and straight to the point. from what I’ve heard or read, there will be some people at the tree stump facing charges for their evil deeds and, they will be well deserved. it’s OK for ignorant people to support someone who has killed an innocent child in cold blood. but, they do not have to smear and slander this child and his family, and this is exactly what these IGNORANT DISRESPECTFUL IMBECILES have been doing since day one.

      They were dog whistled out of their respective closets by of all people, a man of the cloth. imagine that, a man who some call Reverend has involved himself in this most despicable campaign of defaming a murdered child. may this man burn in hell for all of eternity because, there is no way St Peter will even look at him, let alone give his ass a pass to walk through the pearly gates of heaven.

      His wretched old bigoted racist hands should burn each and every time he touches a bible. this just goes to show, that even the devil can say that he’s been called to preach. but, the devil can do a lot as it goes, the devil can preach, the devil can sing but most of all, “THE DEVIL CAN’T PRAY.”

      • kllypyn says:

        Are you saying he’s a preacher too?

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Kelly, if you are asking me if I’m saying that SDC is a preacher, no I’m talking about someone else who is actually a preacher, who was very instrumental in starting this smear campaign of Trayvon, not long after he was murdered. I don’t remember the man’s name right now but, he is suppose to be a man of the cloth, when he is actually the devil himself.

      • Lonnie Starr says:


        Let’s be clear. Like the false narrative of Trayvon fighting with GZ that could not possibly have happened at all, without Trayvon getting some evidence of it on his hands and/or sleeves. We have another false narrative here, that is causing people to think that slandering Trayvon Martin might, somehow prove Fogen innocent. The truth is it cannot.

        It could be discovered that Trayvon was the reincarnation of Al Capone, the Marquis de Sade, Mephistopheles and Jack the Ripper all rolled into one. It would have absolutely no bearing on this case at all, and cannot even be allowed into evidence!

        Why? Well, because there is absolutely no possible way to create any foundation, that is needed to make such fact relevant. Fogen did not say “I know from the records I’ve read of this suspicious persons history, that he is a terrible criminal who will do terribly and dangerous things”. What he said, in fact was: ” There’s a black guy walking in the rain who I don’t know from Adam. I’ve never seen him before, so I don’t know anything about him. But, I’ve made up my mind that he’s a horrible person about to do terrible things, even though I have absolutely no good reason to feel this way!”

        Fogen’s right to act on his imaginings ends with calling NEN! Anything more he decides to do, based upon his suspicions, are things that he has not only agreed not to do, but some of which will also be illegal.

        Thus, all proving that Trayvon had a history of violence would do in this case is, establish that he was able to defend himself! While the law says that according to the evidence and testimony, he clearly has a legal right to do so. So, at law, there is nothing at all to be gained by proving Trayvon Martin was anything more than a physically disadvantaged victim.

        Vilifying Trayvon is a useless exercise that will bear no fruit at trial. Since proving him capable of self defense, does nothing to prove that he wasn’t a victim of unlawful transgression upon his rights. Thus this useless exercise will only serve to make jurors even more unlikely to believe the false story of innocence that Fogen is trying to sell. Any and all efforts spent to this end will be summarily wiped out by the judges instructions to the jury, which will say that Trayvon had a right to defend himself, if Fogen had given him cause to fear for his safety. NOT who threw the first punch, but, who first broke the rules and the law.

        • Xena says:

          TO: The Desk of Lonnie Starr
          FROM: The Mount Olympus Office of Xena

          Any and all efforts spent to this end will be summarily wiped out by the judges instructions to the jury, which will say that Trayvon had a right to defend himself, if Fogen had given him cause to fear for his safety. NOT who threw the first punch, but, who first broke the rules and the law.


          It’s my impression that the Zidiots believe that if they can somehow prove that Trayvon was a thug, it will prevail over the charging affidavit that GZ wrongfully profiled Trayvon. However, as you have also correctly pointed out, GZ admitted to knowing nothing about Trayvon other than his physical appearance.

          In case anyone hasn’t noticed, Zidiots are going by the charging affidavit attempting to taint each fact, starting with GZ’s admitted following of Trayvon, then to DeeDee, and now to the profiling. They are kicking against the bricks because none of their theories prove that GZ killed Trayvon in self-defense

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            EXACTLY XENA: They are trying to prove racial superiority, which is exactly what they are trying to deny was the cause of the problem. Go figure. Like Jr saying “I’m not a racist but all blacks are risky”?!? His ability to say incredibly stupid things with a straight face, is what makes him a valuable media commodity. The fact that he actually believes what he’s saying, means it’s like finding an actual “Ripley’s Believe it or not” character in real life to put on the screen.

        • racerrodig says:

          From the desk of racerrodig

          Well said Lonnie. I’ve stated before and I’ll say it again. Fogen didn’t have the right to stop and question Adolph Hitler, let alone shoot if, if he saw him walking down Main St. It’s a fact, but he has the right to profile, stalk, detain and murder a minor child for walking in the rain.

      • Lynn says:

        From the TV tray of Lynn

        The man’s name is Terry Jones.
        His church was called Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Fl.
        He has since moved down to the Tampa Bay area in Florida and is associated with Stand Up America.
        He is a free speech nut and is as hateful as Westboro Baptist. I’m not providing a link but google will provides pages full of his hatred.
        My daughter went to school in Gainesville and he was an embarrassment to the town.

      • Rachael says:

        From the desk of RACHAEL S

        Exactly. There is NOTHING there that happened back THEN that has anything to do with what happened that night. They can look for all the dirt on Trayvon they want, but even if he did smoke or even sell pot, even if he did steal some jewelry, even if he did pain graffiti, NONE of that has ANYTHING to do with that night. GZ did NOT see Trayvon smoking or selling drugs, he did NOT see Trayvon stealing any jewelry, he did NOT see Trayvon painting any graffiti. He called the police because in his mind, Trayvon looked suspicious.

        At that point, there was NOTHING more GZ should have done. He had called the police, it was their job to check it out and his job to get out of it.

        Instead he got in and messed things up. He killed a kid, he messed up his own life that was already a mess, he has caused all of this because of his own selfish desire to get himself into it, to be a hero, whatever, and if that group of refuse at the outhouse wants to talk law suits, it is the police who should be suing GZ for all the extra work that he made them do, the trauma they had to deal with – believe me, police officers do NOT like looking at dead kids and well, I’m just getting off on a tangent here.

        But no matter how bad you make Trayvon, his family, DeeDee, their dog, their cat, whatever look, it has nothing to do with that night and there is nothing in that “bomb” that SD dropped that has any bearing on the fact that GZ shot and killed Trayvon who, by his own statement, was doing nothing more than walking in the rain and somehow did not look right to him.

        GZ on his own admission took anything after that on himself. And there is a REASON the police tell laymen not to take it upon themselves. There are reasons why NW rules tell people not to take these things on themselves. And GZ has just provided the perfect example of why not to.

        Trayvon isn’t there to tell us what happened that night so we can only go by what we know. We know that GZ pursued, shot and killed Trayvon Martin. Anything else we don’t know, we only have the word of a liar with a previous background. All the thugification and all the villianization of Trayvon and his family doesn’t change the facts.

        We can only go by what we DO know. And we ALL know what that is.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Xena, wasn’t the news reporting about the jewelry and screwdriver based on a word of mouth account? Well, I call that heresy. I am sure that O’Mara found nothing about it in Trayvon’s school records. Also, Trayvon was never arrested or charged with anything.
        O’Mara cannot introduce heresy into court.

      • Jun says:

        just do what the media does

        stick a mic and camera and broadcast their ignorance to millions of people, and then see how quickly they want to apologize and sherm back into their holes

        It happened to that White Chick being racist to Asian people

        and it happened to that chick from california who called the president a “N Word”

        I say, if you truly want to speak like that, at least have the balls and audacity to say it in front of millions of people and see how they react… I bet they will not like reactions of the majority of people

    • Judy75201 says:

      I’m glad you sent this, Kelly.

    • @kllypyn

      Bravo! Excellent post!

      You DID that!

  9. fauxmccoy says:

    wow, so i just wasted valuable sunday time reading mr. cracker’s cache of evidence gathered from his FOIA. i have two takeaway observations.

    1. sgt. randy smith of the SPD calls the defendant an idiot. AND
    2. the software used by miami-dade PD which comes under heavy complaint is designed, maintained and serviced by my husband’s company, i likely have better access to these files than ole mr. cracker himself, however unethical it may be.

    • Rachael says:

      I think “ole mr. cracker” has done cracked up.

      • fauxmccoy says:


        sadly, he never was all that he was cracked up to be.
        might just be smoking crack, but he sure as heck thinks he’s cracking this case wide open. in the end, the cracker is him.

    • ic2fools says:

      faux, mr. cracker comment he should request FOIA info on Corys’ office. He also commented that the FOIA was on scribd.com, I searched nothing is on scribd and everything leads directly back to mr. cracker.

      Me thinks tree stump hugger is hacking info.

      Doxxing the two wrong teenage girls searching the internet for DD, posting their personal info and private pics is criminal. They did not even own up to what the did wrong. And keep posting those girls info. I hope their parents sue, a bunch of dirty ole’ men scouring through teenage girls personal info and posting private pic PED-O-PHILES!!!!

      • LeaNder says:

        ic, at one point they dicussed moving their 1000 page FOIA treasure into a safe webspace. It was a highly conspiratorial enterprise, discussions about passwords for a secret elect membership. SD, I think asked members about the best solution. Does scribd offer public and private space? If so, that may have been the ultimate choice. The planning did not suggest a public solution to me. So that may be why you only find it on their site, but not on scribed.

      • IC2Fools says:

        Hi LeaNdr.
        I missed those discussions about them moving it to scribd, I did read mr. cracker post about how FOIA dump is over at scribd.

        I did find that scribd does offer private:

        All iPaper documents are hosted on Scribd. Scribd allows published documents to either be private or open to the larger Scribd community


        Its’ a bit late for CYA mode with those docs. If there is any wron doing itwill be found out. Use of the term ‘FOIA is the back door to info is a red flag.

  10. Malisha says:

    It just occurred to me what the prosecution has. The prosecution has a witness who has NOT told the whole story in his or her statement, but who, since the time of giving the statement, has revealed something else. That witness does NOT want to testify about the further information. The prosecution will reveal it if necessary but only if necessary. I believe there is a reason for this and that the reason is something we probably cannot guess, at least at this point.

    HEY WAIT A MINUTE, isn’t Frank Taaffe a homeowner there? How come nobody has taken a comment from HIM about the settlement with the Estate of Trayvon Martin? Woooooooaaaaah! :mrgreen:

    • PiranhaMom says:


      Didn’t Frank already state, “Ain’t gonna’ …. expletive, expletive, expletive …. “?

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Actually, someone did. Francis was not happy about it and thought homeowners should have had some say-so about it, if I remember correctly.

    • Cercando Luce says:

      If Taaffe is in foreclosure, then he is no longer the owner of his home, and might not have a vote anymore with the HOA.

  11. LeaNder says:

    To Southern Lady and other’s who are interested in Rene Stutzman, sorry, I have no time to proofread this, and the whole exchange would be to long. It’s long now anyway. I hope you understand:

    Trayvon Martin’s parents settle wrongful-death claim

    During an interview in February, Zimmerman’s attorney, Mark O’Mara, said Trayvon’s parents had tried to settle through mediation and the association or its insurer had offered $1 million, but Trayvon’s parents had rejected that amount.

    O’Mara said the two parties then renewed talks and agreed to settle several months ago.

    Contacted by Walter.Steinway-at-gmailcom what interview she was referring to, she answered it was an interview by herself with O’Mara on February 26, 2013. Asked for more exact details, she did not respond anymore anymore.

    A rather complicated series of exchanges with the inbound service department on Orlando Sentinel if they could provide more details finally led to this:

    We are happy to inform you that we found an article from Rene Stutzman on February 26, 2013 edition. The title was “On anniversary of Trayvon’s death, quest for answers, healing continues” it was in section A1. We regret to inform you that you need to sign up online to get an access or view our website.

    Look that up yourself, as far as I can tell at least the online version of this article contains no trace of O’Mara see February 25, 2013: “Anniversary of Trayvon Martin’s death: A time of waiting.”

    Now this is her latest response to me, I cc’d my question to Howard Greenberg her boss, somehow hoping this might help. Again asking for her help concerning “the interview” she had with O’Mara supposedly on February 26.

    Am I supposed to believe she interviewed O’Mara before the printing process was completed and the paper sent out in the early morning hours after midnight? Which strictly would make it February 26. But she clearly picked up on the narrative provided to me by the service lady, and her earlier confirmation of the date of the interview to Walter. I have not mentioned a video in mail, but I asked the service for that two. So she may have looked into these exchanges.

    Sorry, German header, I also need to exchange arrows around her email address with square brackets, otherwise the WordPress software will read it as an html tag seemingly making disappear at least in my htlm preview website, my emphasis:

    ——– Original-Nachricht ——–
    Betreff: RE: Article interview Mark O’Mara
    Datum: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 21:58:54 +0000
    Von: Stutzman, Rene [gstutzman@orlandosentinel.com]
    An: [name and adress deleted]

    Ms. [name deleted],

    There is not a significant difference between the print edition version of the story and the online version.

    O’Mara and I talked about several issues related to the Zimmerman case during that Feb. 26 interview, but little of what he said appeared in that story. We did not publish the interview in its entirety nor is there video of it.


    No idea when she interviewed him, but considering, and strictly I do not believe a word she writes apart from the fact that she spoke at length with O’Mara, but also doubt it was on February 26, when details fit all to well into an article in April. Besides I find her choice of date maybe since I do not believe it slightly provocative.

    Wouldn’t it make much more sense in the context of the latest Team Fogen motions she ardently supported?

    • Rachael says:

      VERY interesting.

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      Nice job, LeaNder. Stutzman is such a tool.

    • Good job, LeaNder! Mad props!

    • Trained Observer says:

      Other than the ongoing consensus on Stutzman’s remarkably mediocre to sub-par reporting, I think the current beef is mostly a waste of time to chew on here.

      Stutzman likely puts in a call to O’Mara’s office at least daily, if not several times daily. She’s been tailgating him for more than a year now as part of her job, during which time they’ve talked face-to-face, one-on-one, at press conferences, via phone, via e-mail, and with voice-mail messages. She may have a cache of unpublished quotes that she’s holding in abeyance for down the line. Or not.

      MOM may have tipped her about the settlement weeks ago, but off the record. Or maybe he never said a word, but due to shabby writing and/or sloppy editing, he often appears to be her source. It’s pretty clear to me that BDLR isn’t playing ball with anyone out there in media land.

      Hence it’s easy for Stutzman to be criticized for hanging on to O’Mara’s every word. He’s all she has, given that it’s also fairly obvious that the Sentinel has not (as of yet) staffed up to cover this case as did media for the Sandusky scandal. One former South Florida reporter won a Pulitzer for her breaking news stories on Penn State’s coverup.

      One thing to know: Some newspaper lawyers advise reporters to get rid of their sourcebooks and notes on napkins the moment a story hits print. It’s a protective mechanism, and the thinking is that what gets published is what stands. If it didn’t get published, whoever said what and when they said it doesn’t count. The message: “so don’t bother to subpoena our reporters’ notes cause we ain’t got any.”

      That doesn’t mean raw copy originally filed by the reporter before an editor gets hold of it doesn’t remain in the system for a while. But not forever.

      Other things to know: The on-line product for metro dailies has become a beast constantly needing to be fed. What gets posted online frequently gets updated, but that has no bearing on what gets published in print for home delivery or inother print editions for newsstand sales.

      In many if not most cases, different editors deal with print than do the on-line product. Reporters love to bitch and moan about this.

      Nobody’s going to heap accolades onto the Sentinel for its overall coverage of this tragedy, or hand Stutzman high praise for her reportage.

      But in my opinion, copying Howard Greenberg or hassling staffers on timing of interviews or where and when Stutzman got her info is a total waste of time except for creating plenty of laughs in the newsroom. All that will be forthcoming, and typicallyfrom a clerical type, at that, is a PBO — polite brush off.

      • LeaNder says:

        thanks, Trained Observer, exquisite response.

        consensus on Stutzman’s remarkably mediocre to sub-par reporting

        Yes, shoddy reporting, but if I may beg to differ slightly. The Orlando Sentinel had a clear pro SPD and now has a clear pro defense slant, to the point of printing Madame Zimmerman’s letter and ignoring the response by the family. Also leading the pack concerning the get Crump crowd. And this special addition triggered quite a bit of the kind of voices all over the comment sections that picked it up, I detest to read. To be quite honest.

        Also, the questions never end, strictly I wonder if that not only has Howard Greenberg’s consent but is what he wants the reporting to be like? … That was what the cc was for among others. Not a good point maybe, but strictly an angle that even influenced the NYT whose “journalist” copied exactly that passage dropping the “interview” only. Which as I wrote on a different thread, Jeff Weiner avoided who clearly stated in the only time he used the word interview in the Orlando’s Zimmerman reporting thus: in an interview with the Orlando Sentinel. Why did she want to disguise it was her own interview? Or do you think the editor cut that out? Would both editors in print and online edition agree to cut it out? Why not in Weiner’s story then?

        Interesting too, since it shows us that O’Mara not only knew but spoke to her about matters while he had West mainly write the motions concerning Benjamin Crump’s deposition, arguing that Crump wasn’t “opposing counsel”.

        Was it more a generally discussion concerning this core aspect of the case for several month now the two had and it suddenly entered her mind while reporting on the settlement?

        Besides I am still trying to get hold of the article she alludes to. For one reason only, I want to know if that angle is still stronger in the print edition which may well influence jury members. Since I gave up on dealing with the service and the tricks that keep foreigners out due to missing US zip codes and addresses and phone numbers, this is my only hope. Unfortunately while the article links to them, they do not list the Orlando Sentinel in their database of newspapers covered.

        O’Mara and I talked about several issues related to the Zimmerman case during that Feb. 26 interview, but little of what he said appeared in that story.

        She didn’t cite him at all in the online edition. Does she occasionally not cite him but simply give voice to him through his articles without attributing it to him?

        I want to know what specific angle people in the area are presented with via her articles in the print editions. If there is a difference and it is even worse there?

        Concerning the laugh for the newsroom, I am absolutely pleased, if I could help with a good one. Laughter is the most important mood enhancer. So yes, why not?

        I am simply picking up with unitron’s obsession with media misinformation from a slightly different angle, you know.

      • Trained Observer says:

        LeaNder What does Howard Greenberg want reporting to be like? These days, I think he wants it to be … veeeery safe and non-actionable.

        Tribune Co. earlier this year emerged from a protracted bankruptcy and it’s still not out of the woods financially. Circulation and readership continues to decline.

        Amid Tribune personnel carnage at every level, Howard Greenberg, thus far, has been an executive survivor, just as Stutzman has avoided getting the “you’ve just been down-sized, here’s your severance package ” tap on the shoulder that has decimated Trib newsrooms.

        One thing ‘sfor sure: Greenberg comes not from the newsroom, but from ranks of advertising and marketing. He cares about making money, not so much about snappy headlines, relentless, insightful reporting or journalism prizes. And he sure as hell doesn’t want his papers plagued by any lawsuits. Many South Floridians figure he’s where he is at the moment to affect a merger between the Sentinel and the Sun-Sentinel.

        Here’s a bio snippet : Howard Greenberg, President and CEO of Sun-Sentinel Company of Tribune Publishing Co., Inc. since May 29, 2007 also has been publisher of the South Florida Sun-Sentinel of Tribune Co., since May 2007, and has been an Interim publisher of Orlando Sentinel Communications Co. since February 2008. He served as Senior V.P. and General Manager of Sun-Sentinel Company since April 2005 and was promoted to Managing Director. He had been with the Fort Lauderdale-based Sun-Sentinel since 1984. He’s served as the Chairman of the Board of Directors for The Broward Alliance, Broward County’s public/private economic development organization, and serves as a board member for the Jack & Jill Children’s Center.

        You’d think anyone on Jack & Jill’s board would be appalled that someone like Fogen would be allowed to get anywhere near kids — if indeed Fogen actually was a mentor through a community program. You’d think he’d send word down the pipeline to city desk to have someone, if not Stutzman, look into whether that mentoring schtick was even remotely true — and who was responsible for letting a guy with his kind of rap sheet near kids. But no … apparently not.

      • LeaNder says:

        Amid Tribune personnel carnage at every level, Howard Greenberg, thus far, has been an executive survivor, just as Stutzman has avoided getting the “you’ve just been down-sized, here’s your severance package ” tap on the shoulder that has decimated Trib newsrooms.

        Yes, I am very, very aware of that too. I did in fact look into matters too, believe me. It started with thinking loud or in words somewhere here in the comment section. Unitron, commented at the time, “cyno-ironically”, that I remember, not nearly as eloquently and informed as you, though.

        I am also, very, very aware of the state of the newspaper market.

        You’d think anyone on Jack & Jill’s board would be appalled that someone like Fogen would be allowed to get anywhere near kids — if indeed Fogen actually was a mentor through a community program

        Hmmm? That I didn’t know. OK, you think it was Jack & Jill and not Big Brother/Big Sister? If you come from the news business, how about finding out which it was? Or better still if it wasn’t only on Fogen’s mind due to the enormous amount of advertising they seem to make? I have seen neither coming forward independently to confirm his story. Yes, I am hard to convince, sometimes. 😉

        Look, Trained Observer, let me confess. In my earliest encounters with the Trayvon Martin tragedy, a former man of US military intelligence, whose blog I have read for close to a decade, since he was a critic of the WOT, wrote in a comment something to this effect:

        There will be more than enough money to defend GZ.

        There have been rumors circling around Jose Baez, you will remember. There was also a phone call by Fogen in which he told a male that O’Mara would contact this mysterious sponsor circle, if I remember correctly. If there is a low in the money box of Team Fogen, does that mean that these interested parties have disappeared, that they have lost interest? Or concerning the widespread contempt against it’s all the fault of the media, have they decided in line with O’Mara to shape public opinion to their advantage? My blog friend at the time noticed my immense reaction and the whole article including comment disappeared. If he had advised them or O’Mara–consider he even signed the White House petition for GZ–I am pretty sure he would have advised them to sponsor more underhandedly.

        As a PR adviser I had to know the media trade, believe me, it’s all about getting journalists to frame stories to your advantage. I may be completely wrong but considering that the Jury comes from the place the Orlando Sentinel covers, I would assume that one of O’Mara’s PR spokesman’s special focuses is local.

        Do you have an idea what the exact circulation of the Sentinel is these days?

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I don’t think either organization would volunatarily come forward if indeed either one had signed Fogen on as a mentor.

      • Trained Observer says:

        LeaNder — To be clear, I mentioned Greenberg has served as a board member for Jack & Jill in Broward, and said that anyone serving on such a board should be appalled that a guy like Fogen was involved (if indeed he was) with a mentoring program.

        So I don’t understand your question about how I “think it was Jack and Jill, not Big Brother/Big Sister.”

        Are you suggesting some people think Fogen was involved with Big Brothers/Big Sisters? I have no idea.

        Frankly, what I DO think is that there’s a good chance Fogen was lying about his alleged mentoring activity, period. My point was/is that if Greenberg is even remotely interested in enterprise reporting for his paper (which I doubt), he ought to have reporters look into exactly what Sanford area children’s program Fogen was associated with (if any) or at least what Sanford area children he was exposing to his twisted notions. That’s all the more important, given accusations from his cousin on child molestation.

      • Trained Observer says:

        “Do you have an idea what the exact circulation of the Sentinel is these days?” — LeaNder

        Not for this hot second, but here’s from a year ago …
        Orlando Sentinel: 2012 Audit Report – March 2012. Day of Week, Total Average Circulation. Sunday, 287,642. Monday, 134,682. Tuesday, 134,862. Wednesday …

    • Trained Observer says:

      From Two Sides :”…don’t think either organization would volunatarily come forward if indeed either one had signed Fogen on as a mentor.”

      Ha, and for sure, Two Sides. T

      These are tough economic times for non-profit executive directors, trying to maintain programs with dwindling donor dollars.

      Who’s gonna raise their hand or give the Sentinel a call to announce their procedures for investigating “character and background” are so poor that they let a guy like Fogen into their child care midst?

      That’s part of what newspapers are supposed to be for: To dig up such info for the public good.

  12. ic2fools says:

    Hello everyone, this letter I have read dated June 1, 2012 Exhibit B, pages 7 & 8, the name of sender is blacked out, has me wondering. The unknown sender wrote they hired Daniel Santaniello and Paul Jones of the law firm of Luks, Santaniello,Petrillo and Jones to respresent RATL HOA and additional insureds with drafting the release.

    It further goes on to read, ‘They may contact you’. A copy of this letter was sent to Fogen c/o Mark O’mara

    Click to access mot_to_unseal.pdf

    I wonder did Santaniello and Jones called O’mara or vice versa? I also wonder just how much more was sent to O’mara regarding the settlement.

    Mr. Crump wrote in his Opposition confidential parties objection and intent to intervene and be heard in Court. That means any conversations O’mara may have had regarding the settlement will come out. This is very important showing that he is Mr. Crumps’ opposing counsel.

    What the heck Omar! When those attorneys have their say he’ll have some ‘splaning to do.

    • Lynn says:

      From the TV tray of Lynn

      I looked at those papers again and maybe someone can clarify something for me.
      I see where Crump sent a letter to RATL in May to preserve evidence.
      Then in June, the letter you mention looks to me like it is the insurance company telling the insured, RATL (including board members, property mgrs and “volunteers”), that it’s giving up the money and are waiting to see if they (Crump/Martins) accept.
      There was mediation and then a confidential decision in October, right?

      I try and follow the flow and read between the lines.

      Two things stick out to me.
      One is the “volunteer” listed under the INSURED. At the end it lists GZ c/o MOM as the volunteer.
      Two is the release of liability the insurance is demanding.

      Could it be that Crump rejected this offer because it would mean they couldn’t sue Fogen separately?
      They seemed to sneak “Volunteers” in there like they are automatically covered. Doesn’t seem right to me. What do you guys think?

      • PiranhaMom says:


        That’s a very, very perceptive catch, Lynn.
        And perceptive of Crump, assuming he caught it, too.

        To be precise, Tracy and Sybrina would have filed a CLAIM against the HOA, which the HOA sent on to their insurance carrier. Tracy and Sybrina did not sue any volunteers, or UPS drivers, or landscapers, or postal workers, etc. Tracy and Sybrina would have made a claim against the HOA for the HOA’s NEGLIGENCE: among other things, in its lack of supervision of one of its “volunteers.” The HOA failed its DUTY to control the actions of the volunteer it APPOINTED, BLESSED, and PROMOTED – all the while doing NOTHING about complaints coming in that said this “volunteer” was harassing people, was dangerous, and focused on black youth above all else.

        Zimmerman was not threatened with suit in that claim; the HOA was.

        So Tracy and Sybrina would NOT ACCEPT a “settlement” from someone who was NOT a target of their claim: Zimmerman.

        Therefore, they would NOT grant him a “release.” The threat of that lawsuit against the HOA NEVER involved GZ. GZ is not a member of the HOA. He’s a non-paying renter of somebody else’s property.r.

        A squatter.

        Like those guys living under the bridge.

      • Lynn says:

        From the TV tray of Lynn


        Thank you. I see that in Crumps May letter to preserve evidence (which is actually a REAFFIRMATION of Natalie Jackson’s request from Mar 14th) that he requests “Name of the Insurer(s)” and “Name of each insured”. Do you think GZ is listed in that reply? Wasn’t there a date for Aug concerning this? I seem to remember someone mentioning an Aug settlement. Was it agreed upon in Aug and filed in Oct?

      • ic2fools says:

        @Lynn & PiranhaMom
        Reading your breakdowns of that letter now makes sense. Including Fogen ‘volunteer’ with insured parties also says HOA and the insurance company admit to their responsibility of Fogens’ actions.

        Good that Mr. Crump would not allow them to include Fogen in that settlement.

        No wonder Omar is hopping mad. Mr. Crump gave Omars’ legal briefs a major wedgie.

        I do believe Omar argued with Santiello and Jones insurance lawyers for RATL and its’ insureds and possibly Mr. Crump not to exclude Fogen. More proof that Mr. Crump is opposing counsel.

        The letter also stated that information is confidential. At his first opportunity Omar gave that interview regarding the settlement. Seems the lawyers let that slide, but now Omar is stirring the pot to have it unsealed. Mr. Crump has backup from the concerned confidential parties who object to unseal. That means we should see Motions from them also objecting and request to be heard in court regarding the issue.

      • Lynn says:

        From the TV tray of Lynn


        Mr. Crump gave Omars’ legal briefs a major wedgie.


        I keep reading and it keeps getting clearer.
        I’ll give you my take on it.
        Crump denied having GZ on the settlement. This is why we see MOM whining at point 8 in his motion.
        He says he received the Notice of Filing, BUT not the unredacted or redacted settlement.
        If he was a party to this he would have his own copy. So I assume GZ was left off the final suit/settlement.

        I reread the title “Motion to unseal informantion listed as cofidential information within a court filing or IN THE ALTERNATIVE DEMAND FOR SPECIFIC DISCOVERY”

        That’s MOM’s real beef in this matter! He’s clueless. He wants to know about the suit cause he knows he’s next! He yakked on about financial gain and bias…yada, yada, because he wants a copy of what he can’t see. It’s driving him nuts 🙂 In the alternative…LOL Well, Judge, if you won’t unseal it can I just get my own copy? PLEEEAASSEE!!!

      • Lynn says:

        From the TV tray of Lynn

        I reread Crumps response to this again. In point 2 he mentions that the releasing and released parties agreed to kept it confidential as part of the settlement, therefore if Fogen was a party to this he would be breaking his own agreement. MOM wanting what he can’t have. Too Bad. So Sad.

      • ic2fools says:

        Lynn when Fogen ‘volunteer’ was removed from as an insured, then Omar did not and would not be privy to anything about the settlement.

        Yepper Omar is going bonkers, Mr. Crump and the other attorneys for confidential parties are going to block Omar at every turn. His motion is going to be denied. To me the settlement does not have any bearing regarding Fogen Murder2 trial date. He is wasting time and those donations on a matter that will even be brought into the trial.

        So far defense has only spent 35k towards defense, 56k on security still owes 28k that’s 84k on security and 60k on Fogen living expense. Backwards don’t cha know, bare bones on actual defense itself.

        • Xena says:

          I could be wrong, but O’Mara can see anything that’s filed in the case. Sealing it keeps it from the public. IOWs, O’Mara wants it unsealed so that he can give it to the media.

          O’Mara is probably suffering from a severe case of rejection. The State won’t connect the dots for him. He has discovery material that he does not understand, a client who can’t keep his story straight, and probably a revolving door for interns. He would no doubt be willing to pick any fight he can just to release his frustration.

      • ic2fools says:

        Xena, Omar is the only one who wants settlement in public, he is foaming at the mouth to release any and all info regarding it. To further bully, intimidate those who are involed.

        Omar reasonable thinking and decision making one helluva slippery slope.

        I do have a question, can Omar represent Fogen in a civil suit? Its’ not even his field of law.

      • Xena says:


        I do have a question, can Omar represent Fogen in a civil suit? Its’ not even his field of law.

        Since O’Mara hired, retained or whatever, attorneys to file GZ’s suit against NBC, chances are that he is not comfortable in civil cases other than family. O’Mara concentration is mainly divorce.

        • I believe O’Mara is functioning as local counsel (i.e., admitted to the Florida bar) for the Philadelphia lawyer who filed the complaint. MOM’s primary responsibilities will be to advise the other guy regarding Florida laws and procedures and to review and cosign pleadings.

          The Philadelphia lawyer will have to file a motion to be admitted pro hac vice, if he has not already done so.

          There’s no hurry, since the parties have agreed to stay the lawsuit until after the criminal case is resolved.

          There’s a good chance that a jury will convict the defendant and the civil suit will be dismissed.

          • Xena says:


            The Philadelphia lawyer will have to file a motion to be admitted pro hac vice, if he has not already done so.

            They did. I haven’t kept up with checking the docket for that case but presume the applications were approved because of the stimulation to stay the lawsuit until after the criminal case.

            GZ must be sooooo disappointed that the defendants didn’t offer to settle. (snark)

          • racerrodig says:

            From the desk of racerrodig

            “GZ must be sooooo disappointed that the defendants didn’t offer to settle. (snark)”

            Maybe NBC can find grounds to counter sue him…..as we say “…for shit’s and giggles…” Maybe we can sue him for just being FogenPhoole and having to deal with Robbie the Racist.

          • Xena says:


            Maybe we can sue him for just being FogenPhoole and having to deal with Robbie the Racist.

            Well, let’s see. He’s already bankrupt. His credit is already ruined. He has no assets and no future possibility of being financially independent. Nah. He wouldn’t be able to pay the court’s fee to file appearance and answer, much less a judgment. 🙂

          • racerrodig says:

            From the desk of racerrodig

            So you’re saying anything to do with Fogen is a loser ?? Hmmmmm, Imagine that. But the tweets from Robbie the Racist and the comments from Frank “The Racist Tank” Taaffe would be worth a laugh.

          • Xena says:


            So you’re saying anything to do with Fogen is a loser ?? Hmmmmm, Imagine that.

            Unless he can turn ShelLIE into a financial asset, he has nothing.

            But the tweets from Robbie the Racist and the comments from Frank “The Racist Tank” Taaffe would be worth a laugh.

            Junior and Taaffe should be very thankful there’s no law against being stupid.

          • racerrodig says:

            From the desk of racerrodig

            “Junior and Taaffe should be very thankful there’s no law against being stupid.”

            They should also be thankful they’ve never wandered into my shop as I’ll show them what the term “verbal abuse” is really all about, not to mention reality. I doubt they’d even share that with the Outhouse gang…..I deal with some real liars and scum in my business. Those 2…..child’s play.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            I understand Shelly might do well as a geisha, 😆 At least that could keep him in money for canteen.

          • cielo62 says:

            Xena- unless the Comedy Station pays for the story if GZs life.

            Sent from my iPod

  13. Two sides to a story says:

    Pg 51-83 is the Hadley deposition that reveals info about Trayvon we already knew. Called “good kid” by Hadley based on records.

    • boyd says:

      Conspiracy #99 for the treehouse.. Have they ever listed the value of this Jewelry? I’m guessing it’s costume jewelry one gets at a 5 and dime. You can get that stuff at yard sales. My oldest son when he was young would walk around the neighborhood and buy all kinds of old useless junk.

      Funny that they don’t mention allowing Zimmerman to walk away from his arrests with a slap on the wrist. Anger management classes for shoving a cop? Not in Pa.

    • acemayo says:

      ctdar says:
      April 14, 2013 at 12:52 pm
      By all known reports, TM was well into drugs, etc by the time he transferred to Krop his Jr year because of what was known by mid Feb 2012 & already suspended 53 days from start of school term, so what is real reason he was transferred from Miami Carol City?? He was going from bad to worse…just out of control and MDSPD was covering up for him and others to keep b/m crime statistics low. the perfect storm exploded the night of 2/26 and threw GZ into this nightmare.
      froggielegs says:
      April 14, 2013 at 4:50 am
      This may be a dumb question but, can this affect the recent HOA settlement? Could the HOA go back to the court and say they were lead to believe Trayvon was an innocent child when in fact he did have a police record and could of very well been doing what George suspected him of doing (casing houses) and called the NEN about? It really ticks me off they got all that money for their thug kid who most likely was casing homes.
      myopiafree says:
      April 14, 2013 at 8:12 am
      Subject: A Cover-up of “phone information” – by the police? Why?
      Myopia> Here was my major issue: When the police found an un-identified cell phone in the vicinity of TM and George. There was no reason to NOT go after this information:
      Walther> Even with a dead battery, removing the cover from that phone shows the IMEI unique identification number and that is all that was needed to get the phone records and ping logs for a phone found at the scene of a John Doe homicide. The story that this was not done is simply not credible.
      Myopia> This is the profound failure of 1) The SPD. There is no excuse to avoid getting this information. This, with DeeDee’s “lying habit” convinces me that, no conversation occurred. That presumed “conversation” was a “coached invention”, to make Crumps case against the HOA successful. I don’t know who in the SPD refused to do their job – but the Crump/DeeDee “game” would not have been possible, except for the “blocking” of this objective truth. If there is any REAL RESARCH, we have to ask, WHY was that phone and associated Ping-logs, NEVER researched in an intelligent manner. For me this “ends” this case. There is NO CREDIBLE witness against George Zimmerman. The fact is that the “rabid” Trayvon thug attacked George, playing the “knock-out” game, and George defended himself, as an act of self-defense.

      If all these reader or people have proof of wh TM is and he is a bad person that will free
      GZ to so and end this mess

      • And he/she is calling Trayvon “rabid”? The Zimmerman supporters are the most rabid _____ on the planet. Hate has driven them off the freaking edge. Maybe their heads will explode? 🙂

        • racerrodig says:

          From the desk of racerrodig

          Did someone say their heads should explode ?? There’s merit to that thought. The garbage that the Zidiot Nation has spewed from day 1 is really sickening, starting with that “…vicious…” or “…savage…” attack crap. I’ll show show him a savage attack.

          To be honest, I’d be embarrassed to even be remotely associated with this sick bunch.

          Lets talk about his “…railroading…” or how its “…a media conspiracy..”

          Yep, those pesky Zidiots should have something go “Pop”

      • kllypyn says:

        He was not suspended 53 days and no one knows his school records and there no evidence he was wel into drugs.still not relevant.They’ve saying that even before the defense was given access to his school records. again more lies. don’t trying to call them out on because they will not allow your post to be posted. There are no known reports,and Sundance cracker knows it. more lies and speculation. There maybe a lawsuit in his future.

        • racerrodig says:

          From the desk of racerrodig

          ” There maybe a lawsuit in his future.” Not to mention Criminal Prosecution.

      • boyd says:

        like do the math, divide the number of murders in the USA per year by the population then she shoukd tell herself to do the same math for people with protetion orders and other prior bad acts such as assaults filed against them to lead to violent crime later on.. .

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Barking mad. They’re blind as bats.

      • Rachael says:

        From my desk to y’alls:

        “The fact is that the “rabid” Trayvon thug attacked George, playing the “knock-out” game, and George defended himself, as an act of self-defense.”

        So this person was there? They KNOW this how? Are they going to be on the stand as a witness? Where do they come UP with this crap??!!!

        THESE are the people who should be sued!!!!

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        On the advice of qualified counsel of a prestigious law firm that has been doing business for years, the HOA and their insurers have, essentially bet more than 1 million dollars that the CTH is wrong.

        As a general rule, being wrong so many times, usually causes one to suspect that they, themselves are poorly informed. Just a thought they might want to consider.

    • Rachael says:

      You know, I am so SICK and DISGUSTED with the refuse from the outhouse going on and on about how GZ should sue this, GZ should sue that when they have it SOOOO wrong.

      They say SHIT like Sybrina tradmarked Trayvon’s name to profit off of him – ASSHLSS!!! She did it so people like THEM – whoever it was who sold it to the officer for target practice COULD NOT PROFIT.

      They do not seem at all like vengeful people. I don’t know HOW they are getting through this, but if ANYBODY should be suing, it is THEM – they should start with that STINKIN’ outhouse and then all of the news outlets who allow all this crap on their pages.

      “By all known reports” my AZZ!!! The reports you make up from insinuation????!!!!

      Honestly, I do not know how this family is doing it. I know I’m so on edge myself right now, I just don’t know how they are doing it.

    • esentrick says:

      I wonder where this information was received. It does not appear to be something available to the public. Was it provided in the discovery dumps or is it public information? In any case, according the deposition of detective Hurley, the story about Trayvon in possession of stolen goods seems to be a made up story! Pg. 68-69

      Officer Dunn that a Metro Dade officer needed to talk to me about retrieving property on [redacted]. He gave me the case number. I looked it up. Nowhere in that report said anything about [redacted]. It was titled “Found Property”.
      Now, keep in mind, this is after it hits national news and everybody’s, you know, doing whatever they’re doing to either make the kid look bad or make him look good. Once again, that was irrelevant to me. But when I noticed that this report said “found property” and I asked, how did this –how do you tie this to [redacted] because his name is not on there.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        The Treestump got this stuff from an FOIA request to Miami PD, I believe – 1,000 pages.

        Yeah, there’s a buncha stuff in there that the Treepers are twisting to all get out.

        • Xena says:

          @Two sides. GZ and his family must be very disappointed with the treeslum. Nothing they are doing proves he killed Trayvon in self-defense. GZ must feel very bad that they choose to financially support getting documents that provide him with no help, while his legal defense fund needs $10,000 just to pay outstanding bills.

        • esentrick says:

          Thank you TSTAS!

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Sadly, he may like them anyway, if they’re sending him $. I didn’t save the recent link I saw that said they raked in 2k this past weekend. I think I saw that on Twitter, not sure.

        Speaking of Twitter, Jr.s latest, most often used line is now “self-defense is a right.”

        Should be “self-defense is a right when a threat is properly perceived and force is properly administered” or something to that effect.

      • ic2fools says:

        My question too, where did Mr. Cracker get the info. I read his comment that it is a FOIA dump on scribd.com. I looked for it at scribd.com and could not find anything. Me thinks one of ‘de treestump huggers is hacking info.

  14. aussie says:

    Right, so how did he get to have these in the first place????

    • SearchingMind says:

      To the DESK OF AUSSIE

      Good question, Aussie? Other questions he never answered are (a) from whom did you purchase the targets? (b) when were the purchases made? (c) how much did you pay for the purchases, in cash or on line? (d) how much did you pay for each target? (e) did you pay from your own pocket or with taxpayers’ money?

      What infuriates me most are: (a) ex-sgt. Ron KIng is blaming others! (b), ex-sgt. Ron King is claiming to be the victim along with Trayvon and Trayvon’s parents! (c), ex-sgt. equates his idiosyncratic victimhood of himself with what Trayvon’s parents are going through! etc.

      I saw absolutely no remorse from ex-sgt. Ron King. And his senseless rationalizations camouflaged as “remorseful” explanations even depict a man with psychopathic tendencies.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        And why the eff would he support a vendor who offered these targets, knowing exactly why these were for sale and exactly who would be buying them?

      • boyd says:

        This is a no brainer. you’re fired.

      • parrot says:

        Searching, I agree with everything you say so well.

        I’ll add that there can be no remorse a week after the fact because his actions spring up from some very dark values and beliefs that are better left hidden. That is exactly what he desperately tries to do here, hide and obfuscate his motives.

        It takes life-changing experiences and time to overcome the hatred of racial prejudice and sometimes it never happens…


        Ex-Klansman Elwin Wilson http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTKEokcd8M4


        Medgar Evers’ murderer, Byron De La Beckwith.

      • cielo62 says:

        FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62~ Searching Mind; these targets were available for sale online. Racer said that they were available on ebay. Once discovered, the creator of these offensive targets (a redneck gun store owner) was served with a cease-and-desist letter. The sickest thing is that they sold quite well.

      • @Parrot

        I did a series on the Freedom riders on our blog a couple of months ago and we discussed Elwin Wilson’s apology to Congressman John Lewis. John Lewis went through some horrible abuse but yet remained non-violent. He harbors no hatred at all. The Freedom riders series was very emotional for me. And I love this clip

        Hallelujah I’m a travellin’
        Hallelujah Ain’t it fine
        Hallelujah I’m a travellin’
        Down freedom’s main line

      • parrot says:


        Thank you for posting the video. I went to your blog and watched the videos there as well.

        The Freedom Riders’ History was particularly interesting. I had not watched this when it aired.

        We can learn something from people like John Lewis and Elwin Wilson. If a person has potential to change, the one thing that will do it is love.

      • We can learn something from people like John Lewis and Elwin Wilson. If a person has potential to change, the one thing that will do it is love.


        AMEN! Love is the key!

      • Rachael says:

        Good God SearchingMind, where do people like this guy come from? He’s just like GZ and his family. What makes people equate themselves with people who have been horribly victimized but don’t act like victims why they prefer to be victims? Where do they get all this victim mentality?

        It sounds like some weird syndrome or psychiatric problem somewhat related to like Munchausen or something.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Oh, SouthernGirl2, that video is so beautiful and moving!
        I’ve read John Lewis’s book, “Walking with the Wind” but have never seen this video series specifically on the Freedom Riders.

        Would you please give me a link to your site where your article and the videos appear?

      • Malisha says:

        Boyd, yes: This is a no-brainer. You’re FIRED. And you can’t be a cop anywhere anymore ever in life. Get lost.

    • He said he purchased them with the no shoot idea in mind. HE purchased them a year ago.

  15. PiranhaMom says:


    While the Sergeant reads well, even if everything he reports is sincere and true, his judgment is really, really questionable.

    • LLMPapa says:

      I agree completely. I just don’t think I’ve ever seen a video quite like this one on YouTube before where a fired cop is taking it to the “masses” with his spin on what got him fired.

      You can’t help but notice the lack of sincerity in his “apology” as being a poor victim of a political agenda right along side the parents of a dead child he was using as his “training aide”.

      Like a friend of mine said in the comments section, use a pic of YOUR OWN child with cross hairs as a training aide.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Exactly. Or the unidentifiable cutouts of civilians that are normally used.

      • @LLMPapa

        I concur. Why didn’t he use a pic of his own child?

      • Rachael says:


        Now THAT’s a very good question. Like I said, I was totally horrified driving in my car, listening to the news and heard this. All I could think about was what if that had been my child and heard that on the news. What if Trayvon’s parents heard that on the news? I guess they know about it. How do you think they feel? How would ANY parent feel?

        Yeah, if he thinks it’s so funny, why didn’t he use a picture of his own kid.

      • Tzar says:

        I just don’t think I’ve ever seen a video quite like this one on YouTube before where a fired cop is taking it to the “masses” with his spin on what got him fired

        the whole thing seems contrived, like he has been co-opted with payola.

      • Tzar says:

        @ llmpapa
        It seems to me that the defense has put all their eggs in the conspiracy basket, and this guy is just a shill.
        can’t prove it but it is what I think.

      • ay2z says:

        Individualizing a target for whatever shooting practice purpose should never be tolerated.

        Sure a lot of parallels to the words of fogen once he started talking (sans lawyer). He outta not have done that video. Rank amateur at spin, blaming his decisions on the whistleblowers as liars, and blaming others repeatedly transparently veiled apologies on behalf of those others..

        And he used the Martin family, enveloping them for his own purposes. Disingenuous and disgusting tactic. Let him use his neighbor’s child’s image and then hug his neighbors to save himself– he’d get his block knocked off.

        • cielo62 says:

          ay2z~ Mayhaps a sociopath with a badge?

        • fauxmccoy says:


          the range at which i take target practice will not allow for any human shaped targets, not even osama bin laden. the defendant thinks he’s the ‘most hated man in america’, but i’ve got news for him, he does not excel even in this. stand in line buddy.

          perhaps it is because i am in california, but i figured that all target ranges would be similar in policy. it is disheartening to realize my own naivete, even when i have such extensive family connections to the south.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Faux, I am in no way taking up for the South hell no, but this racist shit is all over this country. I forget right off which state the highway sign with the words Trayvon and the “N” word were used in connection with each other. if I make no mistake it was either in Ohio or PA. no mam, it’s not only a Southern thing my dear it’s every where.

        It’s really a shame that we are still going through this bull shit being that it’s 2013, one would think we were still living in the 50’s and 60’s because, this is how those who think they own this country want things to be. no only that, they also think that GOD made them the boss of his world.

        The thing they refuse to acknowledge is the *FACT* that this is stolen land, that they claim as their own.

    • boyd says:

      it’s beyond questionable. using the likeness of person should get you fired. I see it being no different if he used Bush/Obama.

      • kllypyn says:

        He used the image of a murder victim. DUH. Which was in poor taste and just plain nasty. Would he have done that if Trrayvon was a white kid? I don’t think so.

  16. LLMPapa says:

    This video is interesting. The fired cop says there was NO shooting of the Trayvon targets. He used them as a training aide as a “friendly no fire” target example.

    • Xena says:

      HA!! Why didn’t he use a silhouette of GZ as a no shoot training aid? Better yet, he could have used Mama Zim’s silhouette since that’s all we have of her.

      • LLMPapa says:

        he could have used Mama Zim’s silhouette since that’s all we have of her.

        LOL LOL!

      • colin black says:

        Useing a silhouette of GZ is not realy usefull to hone your shooting skills.
        You couldnt miss if you tried might as well use a barn door for a target.

        • cielo62 says:

          @ Colin Black~  LOL!

        • Xena says:

          @colin black

          You couldnt miss if you tried might as well use a barn door for a target.


          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Xena –
            @Colin –
            @Papa –

            Dang it guys, you know the Sergeant had to settle fer the hoodie-model targets, coz the ever-popular Afro-Peruvian model wuz all sold out …

            Fer “do not shoot this ‘suspect’ ” purposes only, naterrallee.

            Well, let’s not give a minnit’s concern fer the Sergeant. I spect Good Ole Boy Osterman is getting him suited up to be an Air Marshal.

            On yer tax dollar & mine.

            What’s that line about “the last refuge of a scoundrel”?

    • Jun says:

      They do use civilian cut outs to train who not to shoot but still a poor choice on his part

    • Lynn says:

      His apology is not for any wrongdoing HE claims to have committed. He apologizes for the wrong he wants us to believe the OTHER officers have done.

      For those who don’t want to waste 5-6 minutes watching this, here is a recap.

      I apologize for being used as a pawn…for being a part of someones political agenda…blah,blah,blah.
      I feel bad for the Martins and MYSELF for others using this to further their careers…blah,blah,blah.
      I apologize for my coworkers for being immature and uncaring…blah,blah,blah.
      And lastly to the Martin family…wait, I lost my place. Let me repeat blaming everything on the PCPD…blah,blah,blah.
      I wasn’t there when your son was killed and I don’t know s#it about it.
      Thanks for your time.

      He gets caught showing off his targets to another officer who takes a picture of them and files a complaint, but says it’s all because this guy wants the Chief removed. Blame everyone but yourself, dude! 25 yrs in law enforcement. Ha! You just joined the PCPD in 2011. I wonder how many other depts you got removed from???

      • cielo62 says:

        @ Lynn~ Thank you VERY much for the recap. I have no patience for scum like that. Let’s hope he STAYS fired.

      • texad says:

        I am so tired of these faux apologies by racists. I am also beginnning to believe that racism is a mental health illness and must be acknowledged as such so it can be treated. Fired cop Ron King, as you and others point out, is only sorry that the thin blue wall of silence did not protect him against his own ignorance and racism. It’s funny, though, that when he saw his paycheck fluttering away in the wind he threw as many people under the bus as he could. Who does he think he is to be a part of some “political agenda”? And if I were the parents of Trayvon Martin I would sue HIM for daring to try to join them in his false alliance of victimhood.

        • PiranhaMom says:


          Crisp, sharp & brilliant commentary. Cut like a diamond!

          Perfect – especially your comment on the cynicism of his riding on the coattails of Tracy and Sybrina’s grief.

          Thank you.

    • FactsFirst says:

      maaan this kat is going to bust hell wide open…. I’M INSULTED!!!! SMDH only in AMERIKKKA….

    • Tzar says:

      From the desk of Tzar

      I blame this video on 24hr news cycles of political pundits proffering spin and unintelligible nonsense as actual argumentation and reason, thus lowering the bar to where this drivel can be posted without shame.

    • cielo62 says:

      FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62~  Respectfully LLMPapa, that is a cartload of horseshit. If he “offered” the targets to fellow officers, then he probably intended to use them for live fire targets. This cop crap is what enrages me. He gets fired FOR CAUSE. He whines to his union about it being “misintepreted”. The unions start turning the screws on the department, and voila! Racist cop gets his job back. He’s out a few weeks pay BUT he’s still employed. It happens so frequently it’s sickening. Our local paper did an expose on the Houston cops. Some had serious complaints, SUBSTANTIATED complaints, MANY of them on their records, but they are STILL employed!! The public here doesn’t trust the police department. And they have good cause.

    • He certainly would NOT have used any silhouette of one of the school shooting victims or the Colorado victims as non shoot targets. HIS judgment was poor in this instance. The fact that he PURCHASED them in the first place speaks to his heart. My goodness!

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Diaryofasuccessfulloser, in reference to your comment about him using a photo of one of the kids from the Newtown and the Aurora incident. in the first place, there would have NEVER been anything like this put out in reference to those victims. they were all white victims with the exception of one little AA girl in the Newtown case.

        These target things were made for one reason and one reason only and that was to disrespect this AA kid and his family. as far as those who purchased these things as well as the one who made and sold them, AA don’t have any feelings as far as they are concerned.

        This is one of the most hateful racist things that one could ever imagine, that one race of people could ever do to another race. there’s a very SPECIAL PLACE IN HELL, FOR PEOPLE LIKE THESE.

        • PiranhaMom says:


          Lady, do you think Reincarnation just might bring those white racists back to America as Black – and the year they are returned here is 1813?

          It would, after all, be educational …

      • ladystclaire says:

        @PM, there is a saying that goes like this, chances go around and, these same racist may very well enter the world in their next life as a black person. I believe that for every minute when someone dies, a baby is born at that very moment and, the soul of that one who has died, enters the world in the body of that new life. so my answer us yes.

      • Rachael says:

        Exactly – and it is OBVIOUS the whole thing here is put into one stereotypical caricature of all black people/kids – whatever. But there is no denying that one. So whether it is for target or not for target is not the point, although the idea that it would be for target it totally reprehensible – but so is the stereotypical caricature.

    • racerrodig says:

      From the desk of racerrodig

      Really now. He’s saying anyone wearing a Hoodie is a friend AND Do Not Shoot !!

      Note to the Zidiot Nation : Please be advised that Law Enforcement has agreed with Team Trayvon that wearing a Hoodie is not a sign of criminal activity nor any indication that wearing, owning, purchasing a Hooded sweatshirt demonstrates a suspicious activity.


    • ay2z says:

      X’d sargent Ron King’s Firearms class beginner to advanced certification.

      It’s a mad mad mad mad world.

      • ay2z says:

        Ron King’s list of individualized victims of gun violence could include:

        Abraham Lincoln
        Anon toddler shot self after finding cop parent’s gun
        John F. Kennedy
        Anon pre-schooler shot self after finding cop parent’s gun
        Anon elementary school student shot by brother while playing with cop parent’s gun
        John Lennon

        and whatever else suits his political and personal biases

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      BS!!!! This is a very sensitive nationally known high profile case, why even bother to take a picture of an innocent kid to a firing range? Less a picture that has target lines printed on it. Aren’t there enough generic images that can be used for no fire friendly targets? Or, wow, oh yeah, why didn’t he use a picture of the Pope? I mean, after all it was a friendly no fire target right? Why didn’t he pick Obama? Wha??? Too controversial? Right, that’s exactly my point. This guy is one big fat EFF’n fraud, trying to put one over on us.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        lonnie’s desk’s owner says

        This guy is one big fat EFF’n fraud, trying to put one over on us.

        agreed, lonnie. there are legitimate ‘non-shoot’ targets available for this type of training, they usually consist of outlines of kids, pregnant woment, women pushing baby carriages, etc. none of these types of targets have any type of characteristics which would tie them to actual individuals.

        bottom line is that mr ray-cyst purchased the trayvon targets manufactured by fellow cone headed scum bags. mr formerly ‘upstanding’ police officer gave cash to racist scum instead of legitimate outfits which produce legitimate ‘no-shoot’ targets. this alone brings his actions into question and no amount of back pedaling on his part makes his story believable.

        the desk of fauxmccoy has spoken!

      • Two sides to a story says:

        “the desk of Faux McCoy has spoken.”


    • type1juve says:

      Yeah right, he is full of shit! This guy and people like him like to push the racism envelope just to see what they can get away with. He is either stupid or brain dead to think he could get away with this. I’m glad his peers turned his ass in and I hope he never works in law enforcement again. There are some good people in law enforcement, but assholes like this need to be weeded out.

  17. ay2z says:

    I would suggest that if anyone would be a star witness for Trayvon, it will be Javaris.

  18. kllypyn says:

    To certain people… There is nothing in those documents you are so excited about,in regards to trayvon martin we don’t already know about. We already know about him being caught with a weed pipe. Maybe he was caught with one previously. Hardly relevant to his murder. that jewelery story was not covered up.( the jewelery in question was never reported stolen and was returned to its owner). If it had been we would nevr have known about it. Again you contradict yourself. There is no hidden criminal record for Trayvon,he had no criminal record. He has never been arrested or charged with anything. Trayvon is not so important (except to the people who loved and cared deeply about him) that the police would hide his record if he had one. Again you people and the conservative nuthouse,will stoop to any new low to justify the murder of a 17 year old boy who never did any harm to anyone. You make assumptions,imply,and make crap up to justify the death of a 17 year old kid. You are the lowest form of human scum on this planet. So this is what being a conservative is. Lie to justify murder. Make excuses to justify murder. If ignorance was a disease you’d be dead. If ignorance was a crime you’d get the death penalty. If ignorance was a job you’d get promoted. Some of you have even gone so far as to send harassing tweets to Ms Fulton. LEAVE her alone. KELLY D PAYNE.

    • racerrodig says:

      Very well stated….

    • onlyiamunitron says:

      “( the jewelery in question was never reported stolen and was returned to its owner)”

      Have you got a link to a story about the jewelry being returned to the owner, or do you remember where you saw that?

      I’d like to read it, having apparently missed seeing it when it first came out.

      Thanks in advance.


      • kllypyn says:

        I lost the link months a go when my computer crashed and i had to reformat my hard drive.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Unitron, I suggest you look at the FOIA pages obtained from Miami Police Department that are currently posted at the Treestump Part 6. The deposition of an Officer Hadley mentions exactly that. Closer to the source than anything the media put out. I think the page numbers are 51-83 over there. Basically, Hadley says Trayvon’s a good kid or he’d have a longer record.

        Part 6 http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/04/14/part-6-the-trayvon-martin-cover-up-detective-steven-hadley-sr-sworn-affidavit-trayvon-foia-13/

        • onlyiamunitron says:

          “Unitron, I suggest you look at the FOIA pages obtained from Miami Police Department…”

          It seems they’re actually from a separate agency, the Miami-Dade Schools Police Department, and not the plain old Miami Police, who are apparently called Metro Dade.

          I had already read all 91 pages previously, as well as the previous 5 “episodes”, but it’s easy to miss stuff among all of that verbiage, so I went to the start of Hadley’s testimony right where you said it was and read it again all the way to the end.

          According to Hadley, the school cops had the jewelry sitting in their property room logged in as “found property” and when Metro Dade wanted it sent to them, Lt. Rodak of the school cops interrupted that, so the jewelry got sent back from Hadley’s desk to the property room.

          And so far there’s no indication I’ve been able to find yet that it’s not still sitting there.

          Which is why I was hoping to see whatever it was that kllypyn saw, to see if there was another chapter in the jewelry’s history.


          • PiranhaMom says:


            Just maybe, Uni, the “jewelry” is a pin.

            Not a brooch as such, but one with a likeness.

            That Trayvon liked to wear.

            In loving memory ….

          • onlyiamunitron says:

            “Just maybe… the “jewelry” is a pin.”

            I have no idea what it is or they are.

            I assume something exists because the school cop, Hadley, talks about Metro-Dade wanting the transfer of some “found property” supposedly connected to Trayvon in some way.

            But as far as I know nobody but the newspaper in Miami said anything about it being jewelry found in his pack or bookbag, and I have no idea who or what their source was.

            If it doesn’t help me along the road of figuring out what happened that night, I don’t really care what it is or they are, or how it or they wound up in Trayvon’s possession, if it or they actually did.

            But kllypyn said it or they had been returned to the owner of it or them, something I hadn’t seen stated anywhere else, and I was curious to read that for myself.

            Unfortunately kllypyn no longer has the link, so unless someone else can provide that link, I’m going to put that question back in the “things we don’t know” file and worry about other stuff.

            I should point out here that I actually erred slightly in using the word jewelry in my reply to Two sides to a story, as Hadley actually only ever says “property” or “found property” when he tells the tale about how it or they never actually went anywhere at the time he was talking about.

            Since then, who knows. Apparently someone thinks they do and kllypyn read about it, but one computer crash later, it’s a dead end, so, unless that changes, for me it’s a closed subject.


          • PiranhaMom says:


            ” I’m going to put that question back in the “things we don’t know” file and worry about other stuff.”

            Brilliant move, ol’ pal.

            I know you want justice for Zimmerman (and I do, too – who wants an unjust trial?) so let me suggest “other stuff” that’s more worrisome;

            IF Zimmerman agrees to testify, how do you think he should explain what he must consider the final pre-shoot maneuver: drawing the gun from the holster sandwiched between ass & grass, bringing it forward, and somehow shooting a horizontal bullet track straight through Travvon’s torso, until the projectile shatters, as designed, taking out a chamber of the heart and lobe of lung:

            (a) should he stand and show the jury how he did this?

            (b) should he get down on the floor in Chambers in front of the jury, and re-create it?

            (c) how should he explain that he would really not have been able to imprison Trayvon’s arm (that he thought Trayvon was snaking across Zimmerman’s chest, with an eye to going for the gun – the action that reminded Zimmerman that he was wearing “the” [up to now, forgotten] gun?

            We have seen him re-create this, and to reach around back to his holster, he has to bend his elbow in an “akimbo” position – so his bicep rises off his chest – thus releasing Trayvon’s trapped arm. Should he tell us what Trayvon did THEN? Further beatings?

            (You can recreate this action yourself sitting at your keyboard.)

            (d) Should he demonstrate that move from the witness stand, or get down on the floor?

            Please think about this testimony, Uni. I am sorely troubled. What’s the best way to make the Jury comprehend?

            I need help with this.

            Thanks, Uni, for coming back to significant” stuff.”

            It’s where we all belong.

  19. ay2z says:

    I wish that someone would post the complete Dr. Phil with Trayvon’s family, it was on the web at one time because that’s the only way I could have seen it. Osterman’s show is online in fair use content.

    That would be a window into the family that is much needed now, Sybrina didn’t know how she was going to be able to cope without breaking down, and kudos to showman Philip, he offered his resources and full support to Sybrina and the family as they go through this very public grieving time.

    It’s become so much more than just public, these new stories are bringing a whole new challenge to any parent whose child is the victim of violent crime, and the child is re-victimized, their memory victimized, and their reputation re-written with hate.

    • ay2z says:

      One clip: (the video stream gets broken up while it buffers, sorry)


    • ay2z says:

      Found the show, don’t know how much it was edited, looks like a decent posting, thank you to the youtube user for this.

      • kllypyn says:

        The poster is a Zimmerman supporter.

      • ay2z says:

        kllyprn, thought that might be the case, I didn’t use the poster’s name, and it’s too important to replay this because even though the Dr. Phil show seems all about showmanship, he does good work in this case and the family thrown into the public through no fault of their own, nor of their son.

        Contrast this, done with a live audience, live recording, no blue or green chroma key screens, no slick editing after recording in a closed studio of the killer to spew more lies and manipulate his so-called, ‘masses’.

        This family shows no hate in their grief that wants vigilante justice for Trayvon in return, none of that. These are good people who are loving parents.

        Messages for Sybrina and Tracy about the haters, can apply to us too, we can decide to ‘take back’ as well and not give them voice.

        What can we do to ‘take back’? LLMPapa just gave us one more example, and his timing tonight, just when we needed it most.

    • ladystclaire says:

      What these people are putting this family through is not right and, this also goes for the family of the “MURDERER” as well as his defense team. Fogen the B*****D needs to come clean about the crime he committed that night.

      I know that is never going to happen because, he is the type of person who would rather lie than tell the truth. but, there are some people who should do what he will never do because, they know exactly what happened that night but, are not being forthcoming with what they know. even though he has cost them on the HOA to have to pay out a big settlement to the family of his victim’s family, those on that HOA board are willing to keep mum. it would serve some of them right, if they lose their homes to the family of Trayvon.

      • PiranhaMom says:


        I think we will find out that the “HOA settlement” is paid by two insurance companies, and their adjusters/attorneys called the shots.

        The HOA would have little to say about it when the insurance companies (the HOA’s and likely the management company’s) informed them, “You really have little choice about settling. The limits payable on these policies are “X” dollars. Let us show you similar cases that went to a jury. The award payouts were “X+”, “Y+” and Z+” All of the excess BEYOND THE POLICY LIMITS — will come out of your HOA reserve, will come out of your personal bank accounts, and your homes could be sold to pay the balance of the award if you can’t pay cash. This what you and every homeowner will PERSONALLY lose.”

        The HOA Board of Directors would gulp and say, “OK, Boss!”

      • ay2z says:


        Who are all the players, not saying they all have legal standing or responsibility, but just on the face of what we know from discovery.

        Could there be ownership by a company/developer of this complex who are stakeholders apart from HOA?

        Could Neighborhood Watch, be responsible for any failure and if responsible to any degree, would they then have a case against those on site, individual board members or the HOA and it’s iinsurers in the future?

        There is also the SPD official link to the NW program for training and responder purposes, would this make them liable for any failures (ie: failure of the NW captain to assign block captains, failure to assure the residents knew the rules about gun-toting etc etc).

        NW should be concerned about it’s reputation and ability to monitor gun-toting vigilantes who operate in a similar fashion to fogen, and his ‘little hero’ complex.

        • PiranhaMom says:


          I know everyone here would like to see the idiots in this case feel some pain. But it is limited. NW is part of law enforcement and law enforcement is part of government and to sue government you must first put in a claim then have it denied. (Goes way back to early kings of England, “who can do no wrong.” You have to get the king’s permission to sue him.)

          Haven’t heard of any claim against SPD.

          NW, as far as we can see, put out the right instructions.

          Benjamin Crump had Tracy and Sybrina file a claim where there was most likely negligence, a claim to be most likely successful with jurors if the claim was denied.

          That’s what they did and the results of same were announced. The HOA (the insurance company on their behalf) offered to settle out of court because it was a prudent business decision, compared to being financially massacred by the jurors.

          What is significant about this: The HOA Directors are those who knew Zimmerman best. Some were right there when it happened.

          Not hard to show those folks what the risks of NOT settling out of court would be!


      • Trained Observer says:

        Ay2Z — Once a complex is built out and sold out, the developer turns over reins to the HOA and sez bye-bye. Unless the developer retained ownership of a few units for some unspecified purpose, any exposure is highly unlikely. That said, it might be that a “corporate entity” — i.e. some mom and pop company — might have bought up a few units during the down-turn for rental or resale spec purposes .(Many Florida complexes took pains with tightened by-laws around 2008 to prevent that from happening, specifying that prospective buyers could own, for example, no more than two units in a complex.

      • ic2fools says:

        @PiranhaMom & LadyStClaire

        Yes there are others involved including another insurance company
        Reading Mr. Crumps’ Opposition #13

        Counsel for the other confidential parties to the confidential civil settlement agreement have indicated their objection and intention to intervene and be heard before the Court on this matter.

        I reread Omars Motion to Unseal Exhibit B, pgs 7 & 8 is a letter dated June 1, 2012 that was sent to RATL HOA, and its board members and ‘VOLUNTEERS’ cc: Fogen c/o Mark Omara
        That explains why JN said to Omar Mr. Crump is opposing counsel and why Omar knew of the settlement.

        Now Omar opened yet another road adding more attorneys to the list he has to deal with.

        BTW, yay I’ve finally learned how to navigate through my email to reply, yay.

        Backing up PiranhaMom I read you Math post and that makes a bunch o sense. Yes, his parents were kind they lost so much because Fogen took away their sons future.

    • ladystclaire says:

      Trayvon and his family are the only ones, who have been mistreated even though he and they are the victims of this crime. this is so wrong and, it’s also very hurtful to know that this is how AA kids of crime are treated by some in this country.

      • ay2z says:

        It’s damaging to the defense. Plain and simple. Those others are just noisiest, that doesn’t mean so much when trial comes along.

  20. ay2z says:

    OS has the storu up now, they diey didn’t have the space to include the complete quote by Ben Crump, but they were good enough to squeeze in the last sentence;

    The Trayvon targets, which feature a bull’s eye over his heart, a package of Skittles in his pocket and a drink can in his right hand, are sold online.

    And just who is receiving the benefits of profits from these hate targets? O’Mara end of the chain for any of it?

    • ay2z says:

      (above typos from Desk of The Cat)

    • Cercando Luce says:

      Sold by whom, printed by whom, distributed by whom? Inquiring minds need to know.

      • ay2z says:

        YES! It is blood money.

      • cielo62 says:

        FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62~ TO: Cercando Luce: They had been on sale online, BUT he was sent a cease and desist letter with threats to sue if ignored, so they are no longer available. OF COURSE it was some redneck moron with a gun store who developed it and sold it. The most shameful thing is that they sold quite well.

      • Rachael says:

        That is what I have trouble with. It is bad enough someone wants to try to make a buck that way, but just because you CAN find something, just because you CAN buy something, doesn’t mean you have to. There is only one kind of person who would buy something like that, let alone try to make money that way.

        • racerrodig says:

          They were sold last year for a short time by gun shop on e-bay. They were stopped by a court order as I recall.

    • racerrodig says:

      From the desk of racerrodig

      These despicable targets were sold by a private gun shop on e-bay last year. He was ordered to cease & desist selling these. I think Crump had something to do with the halting of the sales of this shit. There were Copyright laws and such infringed on.

      Only an insensitive racist shit bag would do this by the way.

      • PiranhaMom says:


        The commercial “rights” to Trayvon’s image are part of his estate; similar to copyright. but a different part of “the bundle of rights.”

    • Rachael says:

      Would’t surprise me at all if MOM was getting a cut somehow. I doubt it, but ot wouldn’t surprise me.

  21. ay2z says:

    Ben’s response:

    “It is absolutely reprehensible that a high-ranking member of the Port Canaveral Police, sworn to protect and serve Floridians, would use the image of a dead child as target practice,” Crump said in a statement. “Such a deliberate and depraved indifference to this grieving family is unacceptable.


    • It’s beyond disgusting from a law enforcement officer. He’s a disgrace to the uniform.

    • ladystclaire says:

      From the desk of Lady, CNN has some nerve quoting Ben Crump’s response concerning this matter, when they themselves allow all kinds of racist hate speech to post on their blog site. “NEVER” again will I tune in to CNN for my place to watch the news.

      All of these places that allow this kind of shit to be posted on their sites, just tell me that, the ones who own these sites are permitting this kind of stuff because, this is how they themselves feel but, are too much of a coward to come right out and say or blog this hate speech themselves. after all, they want ratings. one thing for sure though, they won’t get those ratings from me tuning in to their racist network.

      • ay2z says:

        Can’t understand it. They do not monitor the hate, nor take any action to make their comments a safe place to read, nevermind post. There is no content other than hate in most of these, and personalized hate at that.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        If CNN had any gumption, there would be no comment section

      • Xena says:


        All of these places that allow this kind of shit to be posted on their sites, just tell me that, the ones who own these sites are permitting this kind of stuff because, ….

        It’s because of advertising, but rest assured, the FBI has agents that download and read those comments. They spend hours determining what constitutes free speech as opposed to what constitutes hate speech.

        That doesn’t mean that anyone should actually waste their time arguing with Zidiots who want to turn focus away from GZ and argue about race. As a wise man once told me, never get into a pissing match with a skunk.

      • ladystclaire says:

        I believe in freedom of speech just as much as anybody but, what these people are putting out on some of these blog sites is, nothing but hate speech directed to all AA in general as well as to a grieving family. I read some of this stuff and, my eyes fill with tears for Trayvon and his family because, they haven’t hurt a soul. if these ignorant racist want to support this murderer of a child, then by all means do it. but, they they do not have to continue with the insults to this child, his family and AA in general.

        These “IMBECILES” do *NOT* own this country as they think they do. this country as we all know, was taken from the rightful owners and, these “MORONS” know very well it was. yet they think it rightfully belongs to them but, no it doesn’t. they have even gone so far as to say, AA should be deported. well, seeing that they were not the original owners, they should be deported to where ever it is that they originated.

        Obama said it best when he said, “unless you are a Native American,” you were brought here from some where else. these very people who are showing us and the rest of the world just how ignorant they are, I hope they will one day go through what Trayvon and his family are going through.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        On the positive side, this allows the Feds to keep an eye on some of these folk.

    • Rachael says:

      I went there, saw the comments and left. Why do they allow that? I keep asking why people do that. Maybe they don’t even mean it and only like to stir up trouble, I don’t know. I’m tired of asking that question. Now I want to know why “news” sites allow that. Free speech?



    • PiranhaMom says:


      You have to wonder how that guy ever made Sgt.


    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Another great one, LLMPapa!

    • @LLMPapa

      I howled after everything went dark. LOL!

    • ay2z says:

      The trilogy of anger-abuse examples. Excellent, she well make an interesting witness, won’t she.

      So that’s the witness who offered the abuse of his mother account, that’s what I call it anyway. Turing off and locking out, access to one’s mother’s heat and power is abuse and it’s controlling.

      Makes you wonder just who was the abuser in the family, the youngster with anger issues or a parent trying to deal with him?

    • Rachael says:

      Thank you LLMPapa,

      This is the only thing that has put a smile on my face all day.

    • Rachael says:

      I guess the lights still haven’t gotten turned back on. She’s still in the dar.

    • Ty Flair says:

      He felt like a man hitting on ladies,and killing a kid. I really hate this boy,yes I said boy a man would never raise his hand at a lady and kill a kid for no reason at all.

      • PiranhaMom says:

        @ Ty,

        Yep, Ty, Zimmerman’s your garden variety bully. Nothing special – always pick on someone smaller and weaker (and unarmed).

    • Malisha says:

      You have a gift, LLMPapa!
      And you have given us another gift. Thank you! 😀

  22. kllypyn says:

    I’d like to post something that i posted on global grind. i request permission to post it as is because it is in all caps because i was angry when i posted it. I respect you guys so if you want me to i’ll retype it it will just take longer to post. I don’t want to anger anyone I prefer to reserve that for Zimmerman supporters. K.D.P.

    • Trained Observer says:

      If you want it to be read, best to make it upper and lower case … with several paragraphs. Otherwise it’s too difficult to navigate.

    • PiranhaMom says:


      You have a choice:

      You can either take your time to retype your post, or you can burden several hundred others for THEIR TIME as they struggle to read your post an all-caps.

      Readers also have a choice:

      They can decide if they want to struggle through a long all-caps post or skip it.

      You decide on your choice,
      and the rest of us will give it our best consideration.

      Thanks for thinking this over.

      • kllypyn says:

        I’ll retype it.

      • parrot says:

        This tip may be too late, Kllypyn, but if you use Word, you can save some time by highlighting the entire post, then press shift + F3 twice. That will keep capitalization at the beginning of the sentence and change everything everything else to lower case letters.

        You will, however, have to capitalize the personal pronoun “i”, as well as any proper nouns where ever they show up in the body because it does not capitalize anything but the first letter of each sentence.

    • Malisha says:

      If your computer has a word processing thing, that program can probably take it as a text paragraph (or ten) and make it lower cae and then you can just go through and capitalize first letters of sentences, or just skip it and publish it like e.e.cummings.

  23. ay2z says:

    From the Desk of ay2z and ay2Cat
    To those needing a little smile and distraction, and you know who we are!)

    (Fauxy and Racerrodig, excellent gravatars! )

    • Rachael says:


    • Nef05 says:

      HEY! How’d you get a video of my cat? 🙂

      Seriously, the only part missing was the part where he walks on the keyboard and lays down across it, while giving me this innocent look that’s supposed to convince me he doesn’t know exactly what he’s doing…

      • ay2z says:

        Your cat?? It’s MY cat! I swear…. or they must be littermates!! This food food food feed feed food more food thing has to be a family trend. 😉

        The animation was shared for it’s ‘Desk’ value of course.

  24. gbrbsb says:

    Oh no faux. I wasn’t saying it wasn’t Gaudi. I don’t know every piece of Gaudi’s work especially outside of architecture, his forte, and it certainly looked like something he could have designed (or Dali!), but out of interest looked it up and most definitely you will have to change your presentation to:

    “From the dressing table of fauxmccoy”

    because just as suspected it’s a “tocador” not a “despacho” (Lol).

    For your interest a quick Google brought up that it is part of furnishings for “Palau Güell” (in Spanish gü is pronounced as a “w”, i.e. Well Palace) One source adjudicates it to Joan Munné’s workshop another to F. Vidal’s along with this description which you might like:

    These extraordinarily original furnishings were built by F. Vidal in 1888. The completely asymmetric dressing table stood out for its incredibly modern design for the time and had a mirror that could pass for avant-garde even today. It was designed for complete comfort and allowed the user to have all her beauty implements at hand. In addition, it featured a small step designed to aid in the putting on of shoes.

    Happy dressing!

    • fauxmccoy says:

      from the skewed dressing table of fauxmccoy
      to the desk of gbrbsb whose owner states

      The completely asymmetric dressing table stood out for its incredibly modern design for the time and had a mirror that could pass for avant-garde even today.

      that works for me! thanks for finding that description, it is perfect. visiting barcelona and park guell was definitely a high point in my life (and career, since it was on the company dime). this table somehow just suits me, i like the skewed vision it offers 🙂

      • gbrbsb says:

        Whatever works for you is fine by me, but just to clarify, the description is not mine as I explained in a later comment, simply blockquotes didn’t work for some unknown reason.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          no worries, i understood 😉

          since this is what the mirror reflects, it’s all good in my world 🙂


          • PiranhaMom says:


            “Guernica” itself is overwhelming, even more so for being in black, grey and white, with rough slabs of paint, rough and textured. It’s twice as tall as a person and about 25 ft. long so the figures are overpowering. I saw it as a young adult (I don’t know what it would do to a child.) At some point I retreated to the far end of the gallery room, sat in the corner, knees to chest, with my cheek pressed to my knees and eyes closed. I could take only so much. But I knew it was important to take in, absorb, consume as much of that truth as I could, and after a brief respite got up to examine it more – walking close, then backwards to take it all in.

            It was more moving to me than my mother’s reports of being bombed in London, with glass shards from the windows shooting across the room, and methodically picking them out of her skin and hair, and out of her cat; keeping busy to quell the fear.

          • fauxmccoy says:


            wow – thanks for sharing your first hand impressions. i have experienced similar feelings at frida kahlo exhibits, but this is one piece that i have not seen in person, yet.

  25. Ty Flair says:

    I know this may sound stupid,but what does from the desk mean? Did I miss something,I don’t be on the computer as much as I use to I was getting to mad about the lost of this kid. Now I’m getting my mind ready for 6/10/13.

    • colin black says:

      Its the sort of self agrandiseing comment famous war correspondents or other reporters used in there bye lines .
      From the desk of Woodward an Bernstein forinstance.

      Just proof of his delusion of importance.

    • Rachael says:

      Ty Flair –

      Have you ever read one of Jr. open letters? Or even the one he wrote and said was from his mother? They are from the desk of robert zimmerman jr. – but in all caps (which I won’t do here because I don’t want to give him any importance – I hate even saying his name) so we all kind of started making a joke about it.

    • racerrodig says:

      From the desk of racerrodig

      Ty, since Robbie the Racist (RZ jr) his mom & dad all post these “Open Letter” that start with “From the desk of…” we decided to mock their ignorance by doing this. In fact a few of us now have our avatar as a desk…..mine is actually my actual desk.

      • Ty Flair says:

        Oh ok I get it now,I refuse to read that letter I got so mad at that tweet fogen punk brother send out. I don’t want to hear from them until 6/10/13.

        • racerrodig says:

          From the desk of racerrodig

          You got it, It’s our way of mocking their arrogance and ignorance. It seems to be working……tron left.

  26. ladystclaire says:

    Why does MOM think he has the right, to have the conditions of the HOA settlement with the family of Trayvon unsealed and, what is the reason for him wanting it unsealed? this man is the most despicable person, that I have ever seen.

    He hasn’t let up on the harassment of this family at all. that settlement is none of the public’s business, and it’s certainly none of his business to see what it contains. he sure is being faithful to the tree cesspool as far as acting on everything they tell him to do. they are more than likely the ones who *DEMANDED* that he file this motion to unseal the agreement.

    While having things unsealed that is connected to this case, then lets unseal everything concerning the defendant, such as his text messages as well as his emails and, his phone calls from that night and beyond. they don’t want his racist rants and his bragging about killing an UNARMED kid as well as making some kind of more than likely, racist remark about Tracy Martin.

    this entire family are all hell bound and so is the defense team!

    • Nef05 says:

      I think he’s desperate for something (anything) he can show as a “win”. Motion after motion -DENIED. Immunity Hearing – WAIVED. Defense fund is $10K in the hole, 2 months until trial, and his most rabid supporters are turning on him.

      Since the clerk has already indicated she will unseal it, unless she gets a court order to the contrary, O’Mara has nothing to lose if he piggybacks on her decision, on something she has already declared she will unseal. She unseals it – he declares a “win” (as if it was all due to HIS motion) and the rabid supporters act like he’s busted the case wide open.

      • ladystclaire says:

        This BS that is going on concerning the murder of this child is not even necessary. for who ever it was/is who dog whistled all of these racist B*****D’S out to do the things they are doing, should burn in hell right along side of the ones he/she commands.

        I’m so glad that the rest of the world is seeing this country for what it really is, and how some people are treated with such disrespect, even in death. Trayvon was a child and, he did not in any way cause what happened to him at the hands of a fellow racist POS.

        I pray to GOD ALMIGHTY that, this murdering scum bag is convicted for the crime which he committed and, has been lying about from day one. I saw a picture of an inmate, holding up a sign standing in front of a cell that read, RESERVED FOR GEORGE ZIMMERMAN. that prison cell is exactly where he belongs and, it is where he will live for a long, long time I hope. but, if the state doesn’t get him, the feds will. he committed a hate crime and, with that he stands a chance of being executed.

  27. fauxmccoy says:

    from the desk of fauxmccoy

    just changed my gravatar icon to a desk designed by antoni gaudi and am checking our handiwork 🙂

    • fauxmccoy says:

      dang, and it did not work … back to the old drawing board for us both, i reckon.

      • gbrbsb says:

        It did work Faux, albeit looks more like a dressing table with a mirror than a desk… or maybe that was a previous gravatar you were trying and is neither by Gaudi nor a desk!

        • fauxmccoy says:

          to the desk of gbrbsb

          yes, i see that it is working now. i have seen much of gaudi’s furniture while touring spain. i found this doing an image search for a collection of his furniture, the other items pictured i knew were his as a matter of fact. i do realize it looks more like a dressing table, but was listed as a desk and it suited me. are you saying that it was designed by someone other than gaudi? if so, i’d love to know who.

          • gbrbsb says:

            gbrbsb says:
            April 13, 2013 at 6:07 pm
            Oh no faux. I wasn’t saying it wasn’t Gaudi. I don’t know every piece of Gaudi’s work especially outside of architecture, his forte, and it certainly looked like something he could have designed (or Dali!), but out of interest looked it up and most definitely you will have to change your presentation to:

            “From the dressing table of fauxmccoy”

            because just as suspected it’s a “tocador” not a “despacho” (Lol).

            For your interest a quick Google brought up that it is part of furnishings for “Palau Güell” (in Spanish gü is pronounced as a “w”, i.e. Well Palace) One source adjudicates it to Joan Munné’s workshop another to F. Vidal’s along with this description which you might like:

            These extraordinarily original furnishings were built by F. Vidal in 1888. The completely asymmetric dressing table stood out for its incredibly modern design for the time and had a mirror that could pass for avant-garde even today. It was designed for complete comfort and allowed the user to have all her beauty implements at hand. In addition, it featured a small step designed to aid in the putting on of shoes.

            Happy dressing!

          • gbrbsb says:

            No idea why but in my reply blockquotes didn’t work either for the quote which at least has quotation marks or the last para which is not from my pen but a quote (hope it all makes sense) and I inadvertently posted in the wrong place below so ignore the 2nd posting.

      • racerrodig says:

        From the desk of racerrodig

        I’m hoping my new avatar shows up…

      • fauxmccoy says:


        shows up on a reputable site as a dressing table from Palau Guell


      • racerrodig says:

        Hey…………It worked. Now I have one (more) up on Robbie the Racist. An actual picture of “The Desk of Racerrodig”

    • fauxmccoy says:

      to the desk of racer

      nice desk, with a nameplate even! score!

      • racerrodig says:

        From the desk of racerrodig

        That was actually easy. I just made the name up on my computer, printed it out, took a digital pic. put the pic in my documents and went to my account and viola’

    • cielo62 says:

      FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo62~  I got a new gravatar as well. NOT as fancy as yours, but to celebrate our new desks for class.

  28. Santrina says:

    From the desk of Santrina

    Junior couldn’t help himself had to chime in on twitter to Attorney

    Crump.Here is his response @ADiLorenzoWFTV

    @attorneycrump On this point, perhaps only this point – I agree w/

    B.Crump 100%. That “target” = absolutely reprehensible.

  29. Santrina says:

    Found on twitter Cop fired using Trayvon image for target practice. http://shar.es/JfxS4. Utterly disgusting!!!!

    • Santrina says:

      Forgot to add from the desk of Santrina currently in bed sick and this tweet did not help.

    • Rachael says:

      That story is SOOOOOO disgusting!! Thank GOD he was fired. Makes me want to use HIM for target practice, since “those people” are so into guns and all. As far as I’m concerned, that would be self-defense. You can’t have people like that walking around!!!

      The what really makes me mad is, now I’m talking like them and feeling violent.

      I need to LEAVE my DESK. Too bad the grandkids are out of town this weekend. I have to get away from my DESK and my computer.

      • Rachael says:

        I mean really, that guy should have been fired upon rather than just fired.

        Okay, perhaps not really but damn that makes me very sick and angry.

        Now I will admit to wanting to use an ex for dart practice or something before, but I’ve never actually done it, but


      • Soulcatcher says:

        To the desk of Rachael
        From the desk of Soulcatcher

        Just alittle something to help when your feeling…….


      • bettykath says:

        not from the desk of b/c I don’t have one. 😦

        The officer claims he didn’t do what was charged, that it was politics.

    • ay2z says:

      thanks for revealing that story.

      The link goes to wftv Channel 9, and it appears as if they have a space allocated for a news report video. Hope they show the ex-sgts face.

      Have to believe the guy thought he would have his buddies support and a good laugh while they do their shoot to kill practice.

      More heads should roll, bet they will because that was an environment that this cop thought he was supported doing this.

      It’s hate, and profiling of an individual with hate, and it’s practice for the real thing, practice for ‘on duty’.

      • esentrick says:

        Have to believe the guy thought he would have his buddies support and a good laugh while they do their shoot to kill practice.

        More heads should roll, bet they will because that was an environment that this cop thought he was supported doing this.

        Exactly! We see this prevalent in LE across the nation! More heads should roll. The entire PD should be investigated.

      • ay2z says:

        How will the Brevard Community College officials respond to this?

        • racerrodig says:

          From the desk of racerrodig

          If you remember correctly, some jack ass racist scum sucking pig was printing Trayvon “Hoodie” targets last year and it raised a huge uproar. He was ordered to cease and desist and anyone who takes one out and shoot at it shows how truly ignorant and insensitive they are.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        OMG what an EVIL DEVIL!!! He was supervising target practice and brought those evil paper Trayvon targets for his subordinates to shoot at!! And these were on-duty police! This is the police, in action, in Florida, and THIS is his reaction to the unjustified murder of a law-abiding adolescent by a cop-wannabe!

        Words fail. That damnable dufus better have been fired, and I hope it was all his subordinates who reported him!

    • Jun says:

      From the desk of Jun

      It pretty much proves the state’s theory that Trayvon was just a target for the Fogens

      They still treat Trayvon as a target

      • Rachael says:



        As bad as it was to read that link, I just went out to get something to eat and was listening to the radio in my car. The news talked about this story and it hit me so much harder than I expected, especially after having just read this.

        I realized if I could hear it on the radio in my car, so could Trayvon’s parents!!!!!!

        OMG!!!! Can you even BEGIN to imagine? OMG

        I can’t stop crying and my stomach hurts.

        IF I HAVE TO LISTEN TO THAT EVIL WITCH WHINE ABOUT HER POOR SON – OR HIS BROTHER OR MOM, I don’t know, I don’t know what I’ll do but I am so SICK of their pitty party and their victimization and thugification of Trayvon and his family and all black people -ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY HAVE THE ABILITY TO STOP IT INSTEAD OF FUEL THE FIRE!!!!

        That kind of thing is THEIR fault. Oh, I’m sure that stinkin refuse at the outhouse love it. They probably think it is funny. Do you think MOM or Jr. or Sr. or even GZ himself will have the DECENCY TO TELL THEM TO KNOCK IT OFF AND STOP IT THEMSELVES?

        I am SOOOO sick of hearing about poor little GZ and his poor sad mama. She still has her son. Oh boofricketyhoo, he’s gained weight. What a fuckin shame.

        Trayvon was so skinny and now he’ll never have a chance to fill out.

        Okay, so that’s bad enough, but to TORMENT HIM IN THE GRAVE AND HIS FAMILY LIKE THIS??!!!

        Don’t those – I don’t know WHAT you can call them, because they are NOT people – have ANY heart? ANY soul???

        WTF IS WRONG WITH THEM???!!!!

        omg, I just want to hug Sybrina. OMG I don’t know what I’d do if I were her – or his dad or anyone close to him and heard that on the radio. I feel so sick.

        My daughter-in-law is out of town with my grandkids, but my son is home by himself for the weekend because he is working today. I think if I leave now, I can get there by the time he gets off work so I can give him a hug. I have to stay with him tonight because I just can’t be by myself. And I need to see my son. Trayvon could have been my son, and at times, probably was.

        I swear, I am so sick of their poor me. So what if GZ goes to prison? So what if he is in there for life? I mean yes, as a parent it certainly is not what you want for your child, but she can still see him. She can still hold him.

        While Trayvon’s mom gets to listen to this kind of CRAP and her GARBAGE.

        I mean they all probably stay away from places like the outhouse and probably try not to read news articles where they can see all the racist hatred, BUT IT WAS ON THE NEWS and it hit me in the gut!!!!

        I don’t even CARE how this trial comes out – I just hope either way, THEY ALL WILL STFU!!!!!!!

      • Cercando Luce says:

        I’m right in there with you, Rachael.

        I sure hope Mrs. Mark O’Mara reads this blog to find out what her husband encourages among the “masses.”

        • racerrodig says:

          From the desk of racerrodig

          This “masses” crap started on the “Get to know the real GZ” back last April or May. He stated he’s thanking “…you, the masses”

          Note to FogenPhoole :

          Your Zidiot Nation is a minority, and hardly constitute “masses” of anything. Massive Ignorance, Massive Racist Attitude, Massive Stupidity, but among a small group of Die Hard Zidiots.

          • Xena says:

            TO: The Desk of Racerrodig
            FROM: The Mount Olympus Office of Xena

            Masses???? Why is GZ and O’Mara always begging for money if GZ has massive supporters?

          • racerrodig says:

            From the desk of racerrodig

            Good Questions………with all of those willful people giving money so freely, why is he broke….fat and ugly. I guess Markie O did turn away donations from the racists after all…..nothing like cutting your nose off to spite your face !!

          • cielo62 says:

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK OF Cielo 62~  Some advice for GZ:  

          • Xena says:

            TO: The Desk Of Racerrodig
            FROM: The Offices of Hercules, Mount Olympus, the desk of Xena

            While O’Mara and Junior are attempting to taint the jury pool, they should keep something very important in mind. Evidently, GZ’s supporters in Seminole County are so poor that they don’t drive and so stupid, that they haven’t registered to vote.

            Of those not residing in Seminole County, FL, they care so much about GZ that they prefer that he not have money for a legal defense.

            So O’Mara, Mama Zim, and Junior, should stop crying about GZ getting a fair trial. It will be as fair as GZ’s legal defense can buy. 🙂

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Rachael, it’s even more of a shame that these news media such as TV and radio, are more than happy to give them a platform to spew their shit out to the public at large, in order to see if they can drum up more racist support for the murdering B*****D.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @racer, speaking of him being fat, broke and UGLY, have you noticed just how his facial appearance has really changed from one extreme to the other. in one of the earliest photos he looks like a damn pig in the face. just take a look at his facial appearance over the time span of his weight gain.

        • racerrodig says:

          From the desk of racerrodig

          Oh I noticed the blubber. He has so much flab, he can’t even make that stupid smirk anymore. Ain’t Life Grand !!

    • cielo62 says:

      Santrina~ What pisses me off is that he “MIGHT” get his job back. Those unions of theirs can be strong. I will celebrate AFTER the mediation fails and he STAYS fired.

      • Santrina says:

        i pray this is not the case, however after viewing his so called apology video I hope he never gets this job back or another in law enforement.

        • Xena says:


          i pray this is not the case, however after viewing his so called apology video I hope he never gets this job back or another in law enforement.

          In his video, King conveyed that he is not going to be re-hired. He made a subtle threat that since he (King) has gone down, he plans on taking the Chief with him.

          Don’t be surprised if King doesn’t put up a begging site on the basis that he has been wronged by the system.

  30. ay2z says:

    Not from the Desk of Junior editor and chief rewrite and family spokesperson:

    Gladys Zimmerman and her junior editor, brought up last year’s delayed arrest (not conviction) for her son’s killing of a child by all legal standards, to quote Serino, “… still a child”.

    Revisiting last year just prior to the arrest. No one was asking for a conviction, they were asking for the justice system to work, and that begins with ‘arrest’.

    • ay2z says:

      Trayvon Martin’s Family Remembers him

      • ay2z says:

        Contrast the every emotion possible in Sybrina, EXCEPT the emotion or choice of ‘hate’– Mama Z doesn’t deserve to be mentioned in this same comment if only for her attitude and very possibly, the corner on the hating being done.

      • ay2z says:

        Notice the date, published March 15, 2012, and notice the two photos of Trayvon that appear, one on top left, a very young Trayvon in his graduation cap and gown, and on the top right, the photo that O’mara made a huge media production about, as a photo more representative of Trayvon, compared to all the young boy photos the media put out. PHoto taken in the car not long before Trayvon was shot to death.

        No reasonable person is going to confuse the photo on the left as a 16 year old turning 17 , and this media put both up at the same time.

        WESH and others, skewed the photo purposefully to show elongated, strange looking person to play O’Mara’s game, SHAME ON THEM!

      • @ay2z

        I can’t stop my tears…

      • kllypyn says:

        You see pictures of her today she just looks lost as if she wishes she was dreaming.

      • Tzar says:

        kllypyn says:
        April 13, 2013 at 5:22 pm

        You see pictures of her today she just looks lost as if she wishes she was dreaming.

        and this is why O’Mara’s latest claims of bias due to the settlement, is just further dehumanizing of the Martin family, first Trayvon wasn’t human enough to be scared, now the Martins aren’t human enough to be bereaved, their whole agendum here is to get some money

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          I couldn’t watch it straight through, I had to stop and come back to it later, it’s just that painful to watch. Especially to remember Jasper Tx and then how Fogen stood there discussing his ammo with Liar John, who said he saw things that never happened, but somehow were exactly the same as the fictitious claims that Fogen was later to make.

          How do two people describe exactly the same fiction that neither of them could have witnessed? Coincidence??? Yeah, right!

      • Sybrina breaks down around the 3:29 mark when speaking how her brother Ronald Fulton inspired Trayvon to become interested in aviation. So heartbreaking…

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          I’m pretty tough, been through quite a bit… and still this is too painful to watch straight through. What makes it hurt so bad is, we have nut cases saying he deserved to be shot for nothing and a fool racist police man taking his picture out to the shooting range. How calloused can one get? Yeah, I know, I not only saw the film of Selma, but I lived with the horror as well. 2 million black people in jail because their parents weren’t allowed to even get close to having “white picket fences”, if you get my drift.

          But boy did the HOA do the right thing because, if PhogenPhoole takes the stand, the HOA would be lucky not to be burned at the stake when he’s finished. They certainly would not want to have to even try to answer, why they threw a complainer out of a meeting, because that would enrage any jury. If GZ takes the stand he’s going to enrage the jury, not just convince them that he’s guilty beyond the shadow of reasonable doubt, but so enrage them to the point where they will be absolutely convinced of his certain guilt.

          MOM and West know that their only concern will be, getting out of GZ’s reach swiftly when the verdict is read. Hope they check him for weapons on his way in.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        When she and her sister spoke of their brother’s accident, I asked “How much can this one family bear?”

        I deeply hope that their own lives are not shortened by the horror of Trayvon’s murder, and the public persecution by the killer, his family, and his representatives. That part is so despicable, the lowest of the low.

  31. colin black says:

    FAACTTCH ..hic…
    From under the desk of RZimmmmmjr.
    Myth 659 hashtag double scotch .My brother is not a self apointed great Merican, hashpipenotag.
    This position was cannonised an voted on him by his queerpeers.

    Myth 660..My brother did not phone LE on suspect because he was walking..Who pones L E to report a 9 year old child walking or a 17 year old walking.
    He phoned on all the individualls because they where Black.
    Part of an ethnic group that is proven risky.
    Myth 661…MY BROTHER Did not follow profile chase terrify an detain a child carrying candy an juice on his way home to watch a B Ball game with his soon to be step brother..

    This is pure hearsay have we even seen the tv entered into evidence.

    Myth 662 My brother did not regulary mentor Black youths.If this is so why didnt he just ignore Trayvon that night,
    Like so many liberal media types do.
    No he took notice be cause he carea for all races.
    He called LE to see if the suspect needed assistance.He kept an eye on him because he apearead to be on drugs or something an up to no good.

    Most people woulve walked away but not careing shareing george my beloved brother.
    Myth 663 My brother left the saftey of his warm truck to pusue an detain Trayvon when nothing could be further from the trith.
    He knew police were on route an simply wante d an adress to meet them at as he didnt know were his truck was parked.
    An he certainly never persued him armed as my brother was totally unaware he had the gun on his person .
    Remember he had forgott.
    So thars MYTH 664 he persued a child whillst armed.
    Myth 665
    Its not my brother screaming a primordeal terror produceing shreik more chilling than any holywood special effects could come up up useing every gizzmo at there dissposale.
    Rather its Trayvon an inoccent child on his way home talking to his sweetheart armed with candy juice an 40 dollars an a few pennys that is responcable for the banshee wail of nighmare induceing terror.
    MYTH666 From under the desk of zimmjunior hashpipe .Drool pooling around my mouth .
    My brother is a freeloading P O S whom has no empathy for any other liveing creature animal mineral vegitable .

  32. Rachael says:


    My GOD!!! Those EFFN IDIOTS!!!

    I don’t like to name names, but I should because this one’s name totally reflects his lack of whatever but look what he writes (I wish I knew how to do the fancy stuff):

    “TM’s suppressed criminal history reminds me so much of the thug who murderred my brother. His arrest record ran to two dozen, closely spaced pages of computer printout. Among his many crimes was a vicious assault on a pregnant ex-girlfriend who he attempted to administer an abortion to (infanticide) by repeatedly kicking her In the stomach with steel toed shoes. He was free on his own recognizance when he murderred my brother. The authorities understood that they were morally if not legally negligent in my brother’s death. The same is true in almost all homicides where an escalating series of criminal events that are not addressed by the police and the courts culminate in murder. The TM case is remarkable only because the dereliction of duty by the school police culminated in the criminal being justifiably killed. The suppression of evidence in the campaign to falsely prosecute GZ was motivated by the fear that the school district might (and should) be sued by GZ.”

    WHAT THE HELL???!!!!

    Don’t you think that should be GZ’s suppressed criminal history? I mean he does get ONE thing right:

    “The same is true in almost all homicides where an escalating series of criminal events that are not addressed by the police and the courts culminate in murder.”

    That is EXACTLY what happened to GZ because his criminal events were not addressed or “diverted.” HE BEAT ON A POLICE OFFICER FOR CHRIST’S SAKE!!!!!!

    I’m working at home today, so I’m at my DESK, but I have to promise myself that that I will get my work done and not let my blood pressure get too high, but OMG, ughhhhh!!!!!

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Eh, no chains, Rachael, no chains, or they’d be far more concerned about Fogen’s record than Trayvon’s non-record.

      “All those who do harm are like a precious treasure . . .

      . . . . because they help us build our practice of patience.”

    • Xena says:

      @Rachael, regarding something from the Zimmerman wasp nest;

      TM’s suppressed criminal history reminds me so much of the thug who murderred my brother.

      Wonder if his/her brother was walking home from the store minding his own business, wearing a hoodie? Or maybe it was a white hood with the eyes and mouth cut-out?

  33. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    [Serino Interview – March 5, 2012]

    Witness 14: I saw somebody laying on the ground. It looked like they couldn’t get up and they were yelling for help.
    Serino: Was he white or black?
    Witness 14: I couldn’t tell.
    Serino: Okay. Did you see what he was wearing?
    Witness 14: No. Looked like a red shirt.
    Serino: Okay. And you were outside?
    Witness 14: Yes.
    Serino: What were you doing outside?
    Witness 14: Walking the dog.
    Serino: Okay. You heard… Did you hear anything? Did you hear any yelling or any arguing or anything?
    Witness 14: No. I just heard someone yelling help.
    Serino: Okay. Could you tell who was yelling help? Was it the person on the ground or anybody else?
    Witness 14: The person on the ground was yelling help.
    Serino: Okay. Was there anybody else besides the person on the ground there?
    Witness 14: Not that I saw.
    Serino: So, you only saw one person?
    Witness 14: Yeah. I only saw… I only looked for a few seconds.
    Singleton: You say you didn’t see why he was yelling for help?
    Witness 14: No.
    Singleton: You couldn’t tell what was happening to him?
    Witness 14: Right when I saw him I thought it, like, since it was wet outside, I thought he had fallen, like broken his leg or something.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      The key part of Witness 14’s observation is that the person he saw had on a red shirt.
      And, that Witness 14 saw only one person who was on the ground–nobody else.
      Well, if, in fact Trayvon and George were such a position together that one was on top and one was on the bottom, then which would be the easier one to see?
      The answer is that it would be the person on top who was probably obscuring the bottom person from Witness 14’s sight. Because Witness 14 only saw one person…..the person in the red jacket……we know that George was on top.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:


        OMG! YAHTC! You are saying the prosecution has an actual, credible, unimpeachable star eyewitness to George being on top! An eyewitness that debunks both the already discredited George and already discredited Lying John’s third false claim that Trayvon was on top. OMG! George is done! This kid is the missing STAR EYEWITNESS -and he’s been staring us in the face the whole time without us realizing fully the extreme weight his testimony carries. OMG -George is caught! Plus Omara and George already know this; no wonder the community association have agreed to pay over a million without even being sued! All the insiders know already!
        One last thing YAHTC, that has occurred to me concerning what could contribute to the kid not seeing Trayvon on the bottom. There’s an additional reason explaining why the kid could not have seen Trayvon on the bottom; a reason, a perfectly good explanation besides just George covering him, the darkness and the distance; a reason that validates the kid’s not seeing Trayvon and putting the nail in the coffin. Know what it is, staring us in our faces? In addition to all that -drawing on my experience as a concrete worker and landscaper -we shall have to blame it also on the uneven landscaping! Because the highest elevation (the dogwalk) was between the kid who stood in grass lower than the dogwalk on his side, looking across the elevated dogwalk at the figures on the other of it who just like him, were in the grass over there which is also lower than the dogwalk too.

        • esentrick says:

          From the desk of esentrick

          I really haven’t put much thought into Witness 14 statement but when you put it into that context it makes sense! Wow great post.

      • Rachael says:

        I agree. I hope that is checked out thoroughly – I mean onsite.

      • Rachael says:

        And it makes even more sense him saying like maybe his leg was broken because if that was what he was actually seeing, he was seeing Trayvon’s leg from underneath so it would look twisted if you thought it belonged to the person on top.

      • gbrbsb says:

        I jotted this down as one of GZ’s biggest gaffes ages ago (forgotten name of interviewer… neither Singleton nor Serino). It seemed to fit here.

        U/c emphasis mine and the long text after is only to show that despite he managed to immediately correct his slip, GZ never explains what exactly DID he mean when he said “squirmed my way out”, because IMO nothing of what he describes fits with squirming “out” of anything while it does fit perfectly with squirming out “from under him”. His head only being a quarter on the concrete has some interest too.

        “…I kind of shifted and squirmed MY WAY OUT… Not out from under him but like to where… ‘cos h… the concrete was only… it was a side walk and…it felt like he only had my head on a (inaudible)… a quarter of the concrete and I could shift my way out and get on to the grass so where he was slamming my head it would just hit the grass and not the concrete but when I shifted my jacket came up and my shirt came up and exposed my firearm…”

        • PiranhaMom says:


          Good catch, GB! When John W6 had his SECOND (corrective) interview he described the guy under (not in the dark hoodie) as rising, straining to reverse the position. When he looked out “they” were over by the dogwalk, then on the grass at the end. In the dark out there he cold not ascertain who was who.

          It is not difficult for a trained MMA/brawler to overpower and overthrow someone pinning him down (someone with little strength left, like Trayvon, trying to pin GZ down. Soon, Trayvon lost the hold.)

          • cielo62 says:

            PiranhaMom~ I think this other version is ALSO a lie. GZ didn’t have so much as a smudge on him. NO WAY he ‘wrestled’ with Trayvon that night. GZs clothes were too clean and tucked in to have been in a fight or a tussle.

          • PiranhaMom says:


            Need to “see” your theory – do you think GZ shot TM while both standing?

            Or GZ was standing and TM on the ground and GZ leaned over and shot him? Then got down on the ground over him AFTERwards, as witnesses saw at the end?

            The reason I believe this tussling on the ground took place without mussing up GZ is that (1) his jacket is almost indestructible, poly or poly/cotton – designed to be shower-resistant, packable, etc. (2) very wet grass, for slip-sliding along, and (3) It’s St. Augustine grass, very tough and unlikely to bruise – it’s the dormant season in Florida before spring growth, without lots of juice in the blades of grass – and it’s short and “thatchy” because it’s regularly mowed – so the grass doesn’t tear up. Kinda like Astroturf.

            The bits of grass on GD’s boot-toe looked to me like clippings from the grass having been mowed.

            Let me know how you think it progressed from the first verbal encounter to the shot. I think GZ grabbed TM’s shirt at first encounter and TM threw up his elbows in surprise, knocking GZ down and taking TM with him.

            OR, Trayvon is pulled forward, off-balance, when his shirts are grabbed, knocking GZ and himself to the ground

            At that point GZ could have gotten on top, with Trayvon yelling “Get off!” and then we heard the rest on Jenna’s 911 call: GZ takes his gun out right then; 40 seconds of screaming; then the shot.

            Please give me your input. I respect your views.

          • cielo62 says:

            Pirhanamom- I’m honored. Let me write it out logically and post it later.

            Sent from my iPod

          • PiranhaMom says:

            Thanks, Cielo –

            Based on your previous comment, I am seriously thinking there was:

            (1) the encounter – verbal, (“What are you doing … ” reported by both DeeDee AND Jenna of the HOA);

            (2) with a GZ grab to TM’s shirt,

            (3) a takeown/fall, as a result of the grab,

            (4) with GZ on top, with TM yelling “Get offfff!”

            (5) GZ “interrogating” with TM yelling “I don’t knooooowwwww,”

            (6) GZ ordering TM to “Shut the fuck up! Keep quiet!” (which Jeremy interpreted as a directive from GZ to Jeremy to “keep quiet about what you are seeing” (i.e., don’t tell anyone) – we hear
            Jeremy’s report to Jenna);

            (7) GZ draws gun, tells TM “You gonna die tonight, motherfucker,”

            (8) TM’s screams escalate – Unwavering (no motion by screamer involved)

            (9) Shot fired;

            (10) Scream ceases immediately;

            (11) GZ seen by witnesses rising from the body, with TM prone.

            (12) Cops arrive.

            Elapsed time: not much more than a minute.

            Is that how you see it? I have eliminated wrestling in the grass and changes of position, as reported by JohnW6. Nobody else reported seeing them on the ground before the shot. The young kid looking for his dog only saw the red-jacket guy – and if he were on top of TM, in the dark, that is exactly what the kid would see: one guy in a red jacket, as Lonnie has pointed out in irrefutable detail.

            Through all of the above, GZ is totally unmussed, ready for the cover of Gentlemen’s Quarterly (if he were, in fact, a “gentleman”.)

            Let me know the scenario as you see it. Thanks!

          • parrot says:

            “… Nobody else reported seeing them on the ground before the shot.”

            I don’t know if by “before the shot” you mean the whole struggle from first verbal exchange to the murder.

            However, witness 18 was the only one that I know of who was looking at the two struggling before, during and after Trayvon was shot. She is an important, credible witness.

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @parrot –

            Absolutely credible, with a sustained view of the final encounter and struggle: ALL IN ONE PLACE.

            No scooting around (which I believe is Cielo’s viewpoint).

            I am coming around to seeing this, too. No wrestling from place-to-place, which would have messed up GZ’s wardrobe. Bandbox perfect as he disembarks in the sallyport at SPD.

            This disregards JohnW6’s witness statement(s), which are not considered credible by many, due to his recanting and about-face.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            BDLR has said that they have a witness who saw the whole thing from beginning to end, and that they also know that Trayvon made it home by using the most direct route. It was during one of the hearings where BDLR says that there is a witness to the entire encounter. But I do have the link to the first bond hearing where he says, or rather the Detective says they know that Trayvon made it home and used the most direct route from the mail kiosk. http://tinyurl.com/bn5e4xe Look right down near the bottom for the link to Tzar’s post.

          • cielo62 says:

            Lonnie~ “made it home” but didn’t enter?


          • Lonnie Starr says:

            My best guess is: “Made it home but could not enter”. Trayvon isn’t a coward, he bravely faced the flames to save his fathers life. He wouldn’t seek to enter the house while being followed, knowing that would put Chad at risk. So, if there was someone out there within sight of him entering the house, he would probably turn away. Those houses aren’t a bit like safe rooms. The rear of the house is just a glass patio door. A sharp rap and it shatters, giving entry to the ill intended.

            Things would certainly have been different if Trayvon’s father or Brandy were home, he’d probably call out for them. But, with only Chad there, he’d just be getting Chad into trouble. Trayvon bravely turned away to save Chad and accept the troubles on himself.

            Of course, we don’t know if that was GZ behind him, it could very well have been Osterman or Taaffe and Trayvon would not know. Trayvon would have to run north to get away and, as he did so, GZ could simply come through one of the cut throughs behind Trayvon as he
            passed, letting MO or Taaffe move away into the background again.
            The Zimmercreep would be so excited to have his hands on his prey, he forgot about the need to push Trayvon down to the T to match the story he planned to tell. Or, by this time Trayvon’s yelling was attracting witnesses, making it impossible to move around freely without being seen.

            GZ tells the same story anyway, even though Trayvon was not at the T, because GZ already has the blood on his head, that he had prepared before hand, so perhaps someone was supposed to pour a little blood on the walkway down by the T and that’s what GZ had in mind, that his story had to match the plan. However, when his cohort saw that GZ wasn’t going to reach the T, he decided not to pour the blood, since the story would obviously have to be changed.

            Then the very publicly announced “call my wife…” was simply a ruse to provide cover for MO and Shelly to explain being there so soon.

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Lonnie –

            Geez, Lonnie, whose blood was supposed to have been collected in advance to pour on the concrete?

            Were these the Three Stooges who Never Heard of DNA?

            If they were planning some ruse to enable GZ to claim self-defense, why not give GZ some deadly weapon to plant on GZ? One that wouldn’t host fingerprints?:

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            They, obviously couldn’t afford a gun that would have been either untraceable or traceable to someone prepared.

            The blood illustration is just to show how pre-planning can get one locked into a story about a situation that is dynamic. There’s evidence dropped at the T, even though the body is 40 feet away, clearly the story needs some adjustment, yet none is ever made.
            Anything wrong with this picture? Is GZ on drugs?

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Lonnie –

            Follow up –

            Correction: should be ” … to plant on Trayvon.”

          • Xena says:

            @Lonnie Starr. It was the first bond hearing where Gilbreath, under cross by BDLR, said that they determined the route Trayvon took was heading home. He didn’t say Trayvon made it home.

            In the 2/29/12 interrogation, Serino told GZ that an anonymous witness stated there was a verbal encounter before things went to the ground, and that GZ attempted to restrain Trayvon.

            In his interview with Dr. Phil, Osterman said that GZ got out of his truck to see where “he was suppose to be.” That conveys there was a plan on where “the assholes” who always get away were suppose to be captured — by the back gate.

            Someone here pointed out too that the cops saw or tracked GZ’s truck on Twin Oaks by GPS.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Oh great, just wrote a reply and it disappeared while I was trying to get the link. Anyway let’s try again.

            That was me who spotted the header on the NEN call that notes the nearest intersection as Long Oaks Way. That has to be the E911 auto GPS function at work, since I doubt the operator would have bothered to type that information, even if he had it in front of him.
            I doubt that the system displays actual GPS coordinates, but instead displays a location on a dynamically updating map. This is probably why Sean says “Are you following him?”. Not because of the noises he hears on the phone, but because he’s actually able to watch GZ’s phone moving around. That is what E911 is supposed to do, allow the call center to locate and track callers, so they can provide assistance, even when the caller is unable to give their location.

            This system was implemented in 2008-09 in Sanford as part of a state wide 911 system upgrade. It uses military grade GPS signals placing locations with an accuracy of 2 to 3 feet.

            Trayvon’s phone would have had a GPS system too, because mfg’s installed a chip for it, because it had become a popular way for service providers to earn extra money, by providing location sensitive ads. MOM has let it be known that GPS data has been retrieved from Trayvon’s phone, but says that he received data for all times that Trayvon was in Sanford, EXCEPT 2/26/12. Of course we know that not all claims MOM makes are true, so this one is unlikely to be true, unless there is some justification that would allow the SP to hold back such discovery.

            Anyway the first bond hearing was posted by Tzar and I’ve added it to the HERE, it’s really stunning to watch considering that there is so much argument over TM’s route and timing etc.,

          • Xena says:

            @Lonnie Starr.

            That was me who spotted the header on the NEN call that notes the nearest intersection as Long Oaks Way. …..This is probably why Sean says “Are you following him?”. Not because of the noises he hears on the phone, but because he’s actually able to watch GZ’s phone moving around.

            That is why the State is very confident is saying that GZ “pursued” Trayvon.

            You know, as I watched the interrogation of Jodi Arias, it was entertaining hearing her ask the detective how they obtained certain evidence. For instance, “How do you know it’s my palm print?”

            Can you imagine GZ asking O’Mara how the State knows he was not returning to his truck and was neither at the T?

            TICK TOCK.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            On the NEN call page there’s a box up top that’s labeled “nearest intersection” and I’m pretty sure that’s an auto fill box. Filled in by the E911 software. There would also be an onscreen map, showing the location of the cell phone calling in. That indicator will move as the caller moves, otherwise what would be the point of GPS enabling E911? So, while we’re listening to the tape and we hear GZ start huffing and puffing, we say sure, no wonder Sean realized GZ was following Trayvon.

            But you see… Police authorities have long known that you don’t let everyone know everything all the time. Because if you do, people will find a way to defeat you. So Sean doesn’t say “I see that you’re following him.” He says “Are you following him?” Had GZ answered no, he would have sealed his fate right then and there. But for some reason GZ realized he’d better not lie on this point, so he says yes he is. All the while wondering how Sean knew that.

            Truth is, heavy breathing and strange noises over the phone aren’t going to give you a very good idea of what someone is doing. Of course, it says a lot about what the SPD thinks of GZ, if Sean expects GZ to follow. But the point is, Sean was most likely watching GZ’s phone as it began rapidly moving across the screen.

            I’m pretty sure that the E911 system allows the operator to keep tracking a phone, even after the caller hangs up. Otherwise a dropped call or otherwise broken connection could easily thwart rescue. Sean has only to tap a key and he’s tracking GZ up until the police arrive. GZ is toast.

          • Xena says:

            @Lonnie Starr

            Sean has only to tap a key and he’s tracking GZ up until the police arrive. GZ is toast.

            That explains why after Sean asked if GZ wanted to meet the cop at the mail boxes, and GZ changed his mind and wanted the cop to call him for his location, that Sean would believe GZ was going in a direction opposite of the mail boxes and thus, also not where his truck was parked.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            If you go back and listen to the NEN tape again, at the end of the call it seems inconsequential, but Sean doesn’t say that he’ll have the police call when they get there, he says that he’ll do it. Which could mean that he’ll call the police when they get there, but it could very well mean that he’ll call the police and tell them where you are when they get there.

            I’m pretty sure GZ was given a tour of the E911 call center at some point in time, funny he never seems to remember the consequences of having data recorded and stored. When Sean said “okay I’ll call him when he gets there”, that should have rung a bell in GZ’s head. Which is probably exactly what Sean was trying to do, alert GZ that his movements were being tracked without saying so in so many words on a recorded call.

            He couldn’t tell GZ that he had GPS on him, since that might have caused GZ to put the phone down to avoid being tracked, and Sean would have been fired. GZ is toast!

          • racerrodig says:

            Toast, well burnt please. O’ Mara and Fogen have no clue as to what kind of Buzz Saw they walking blindly into. Not like when Moe drags a saw over Curley’s head mind you, we’re talking 12 foot in diameter, industrial size…….Whirrrrrrrrrrrrrr Zinggggggggg

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Yep the walls are a crumbling fast. The whole darned family now realizes there is something really serious going on. Those who spoke out on GZ’s behalf are now facing some serious charges as theories of their own involvement and what they may have done to conceal it, are substantiated with evidence and promise to bear fruit.

            Justice for Trayvon
            Hoodies up!!!
            |||=> Tick Tock! Clink Clank <-||| 😀

          • racerrodig says:

            Yep !!!!

            Justice for Trayvon
            Hoodies up!!!
            |||=> Tick Tock Clink Clank <+||| 😀

          • PiranhaMom says:


            Wow, Lonnie, that military-grade GPS info is stunning! And to think Sean can testify as to GZ’s movement as observed on the scanner in front of Sean during the 311 call!

            The defense must be shaking in its boots …

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Have you read up on the e911 system?

            Understandably they don’t want to give out much on what it can do. But it’s not hard to figure out what it’s capabilities are.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            That’s a very good composite. What we don’t realize very often is, there are different scenarios because different witnesses testify to seeing different things. This creates a whole different set of “must be’s” [as in: it must be this or it must be that] and these are usually resolved by placing the actors in the different positions, then trying to draw lines between where they were to how they got to the next position.

            Of course if any of these observations are mistaken, the entire effort is thrown off course. Then the answer is to do what you have done, throw out the controversial mid points and go straight from start to finish, picking up only the points most likely to be trustworthy.

            1. The fight moved from the concrete to the grass says Fogen.
            Answer: Self serving statements are unreliable. omit!

            2. W6 sees fight move from grass to the concrete, with MMA blows being rapidly and forcefully thrown.
            Answer: A helpful set of lies by a friend who contradicts 1. and later retracts MMA blows as untrue! Omit!

            Keep going…

          • PiranhaMom says:


            I always work back from the trajectory of the shot. How did this happen? Then I try hang the evidence and “the unknowns” on the tree. Later some of the “unknowns” crash off.

            I suspect we are in for amazing surprises, come June …

            Won’t bother me in the least to find my scenario is wrong — as long as the evidence convicts Zimmerman.

          • cielo62 says:

            PirhanaMom~ I’m not married to my theory, either. It’s just my visual of what happened taking into account variables that I think of as key pieces of evidence. As long as he is convicted, I don’t care if I was WAY off the mark.

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @ Cielo –

            We’re all united on this: however Bernie de la Rionda successfully convinces the jury to convict Zimmerman – that’s the scenario we love!

          • cielo62 says:

            PirhanaMom~ “My version” is based on a few details that have really struck me. I agree with Lonnie that there is a back story somewhere, maybe based on mistaken identity, or maybe getting a “stooge” to blame for the loss of the $3,000 laptop. Maybe I’ve read too many stories, but I could see the blame being shifted to “some kid visiting in the neighborhood” for the loss of the laptop. Maybe the 3 stooges fingered him for GZs wrath. So GZ decides to punish this nosy intruder that messed up his heist. Maybe he was depending on the money he would have received for that item, and he finds himself in a financial pickle (again). Anyway, GZ confronts Trayvon. Trayvon askes GZ why he is following him (“why are you following me?”). GZ responds with a challenge to his turf (“What are you doing around here?”). GZ pushes Trayvon to elicit a violent response. Trayvon yells “Get off!”.  This shove disconnects the phone call to Dee Dee. Instead of a violent reponse, Trayvon takes off again,with renewed energy by adrenalin. This run creates the debris field. Trayvon slips or is pushed on the wet grass. He lands probably on his knees, then turns around to face GZ. He ends up sitting on his butt. GZ “mounts” him (another episode of mirroring behavior). GZ makes no contact with the ground, except for his boot tips. No tussle. GZ proceeds to pin Trayvon with his knees to the ground while Trayvon screams in pain. This is when the “interrogation” takes place. He gets no useful information. Enraged, GZ stands and yanks Trayvon to his feet. That would not be hard for a former bouncer.  He pulls his gun and Trayvon starts his haunting screams. GZ shoots; the scream ends with the shot. The key points for me: They are both standing. Trayvon is pulling away but facing GZ. Dynamic but with little movement from the spot. After the shot, of course the body falls limply to the ground. GZ does his frisking for a weapon and/or bullet hole. That is how I “see” the episode. There can be no tussle; GZ is too clean. The shot HAS to be from a standing position to satisfy the ballistics. As for the child witness who says he saw only one guy on the grass with a red jacket; it doesn’t fit with the documented cleanliness of GZs appearance. I feel his testimony was tainted onsite or afterwards. Kids are notorious for NOT getting details, and will often repeat the last thing they heard. (I say this as a teacher of 20 years experience working with kids). I also support that GZ came pre-wounded to the fight and the excersion caused the head wounds to leak a little during the interrogation. Hence the blood trails. The nose boo-boo was from the recoil of his cheap-ass popgun. I don’t know if we’ll ever get the real details, but that is what I see based on the evidence. Let me know if I failed to account for anything.

          • PiranhaMom says:


            WOW! a lot to consider here!

            Do you shoot? I do, and if I had TM pinned to the ground with my knees on his arms, and I was clutching his shirts – which I had done from the first moment of encounter, to control and detain him – I would simply raise my ass (because my knees are kneeling on Trayvon’s arms) which would, in fact, be more comfortable for me, then reach back with my “shooting arm”, pluck the Kel-Tek from my waistband holster, LEAN OVER TRAYVON’S TORSO, and position the gun vertically to Trayvon’s chest – maybe even nudge it to the badge (we don’t know yet the relationship of the badge to the bullet hole). The shooter’s right hand meets the victim’s left chest where the heart is located. Incredibly easy to place the muzzle of the gun and fire. And, if I were GZ at that moment (and with a shaved head, yet), the fresh narrow scrapes on the back of my head would bleed in the downward, forward motion.

            I keep checking out installed (not new at the store) sprinkler heads and the screw in the center is often slightly raised. The screw sets emitter pressure so directs how far the water shoots out. And often the sprinkler heads do not fully retract after the water is turned off, because calcium and other minerals in the water build up around the screw – does not create problems for sprinkling. Does gouge your shaved head if you drag it across.

            Or – running between buildings may have thrown or tripped GZ into leafless trees/shrubs, just before grabbing Trayvon.

            I agree the kickback from the Kel-Tek caused the facial blood – because beady-eyed GZ had to lean OVER Trayvon’s chest in close proximity – just inches – to center the shot, and fire. If they were standing, his face would be much further away from the recoil and it would not zap him.

            I don’t go around shooting people, but during the 70’s I worked in counter-terrorism (but not as an agent) and spent a lot of time with cops. Some of their outlook wears off. I like the guys I worked with (they were all guys at that time except for one female Inspector at Scotland Yard in 1985) but they were assigned to me – so I expect I got the pick of the crop. And they were often good hunting buddies. So I can only say it is way off the moon to hold on to somebody vertically to shoot them. First – THEY’VE GOT THEIR ARMS FREE, so they can grab the gun and shoot YOU, or at least deflect your shot by smashing your arm aside. And they would be moving in some attempt to escape. If you have them detained by grasp you don’t take out your gun to threaten them. You just say “Hold it – I’ve got a gun.” In fact, since most cops’ guns are at their sides, they don’t want to be close to a “detainee”. They’ll usually yell, “Freeze! Get your hands up!”, THENSTEP BACK OUT OF RANGE when the suspect’s arms are elevated, then keep their hand in proximity to the gun, ready to fire. “Never let the suspect get close enough to even lunge for your gun.” This is not ballroom dancing.

            And what if Trayvon WERE armed? GZ didn’t know, or not.
            Would you take the chance of dragging a possibly armed “suspect thug” upright, with his arms free – ready to go for his OWN gun? What’s with the idea of putting any quarry in a position to do you harm – or spoil your aim?

            Now, I know GZ is plenty stupid about a lot of things and was not trained as an officer – just taught informally “to shoot” by Osterman and develop his eye for target shooting. (Did he have pit-bull images as targets?) Supposedly, he was being trained to defend himself.

            On the other hand, Osterman was an experienced cop, so surely he warned GZ to KEEP THE GUN AWAY FROM HIS ASSAILANT’S GRASP. That’s one of the problems for untrained “home defense”: – that’s how, often, the bad guy gets your gun. If you are going to shoot, shoot from a distance. If he starts to advance toward you SHOOT NOW. A sure sign he will be a deadly threat (with your weapon) is if he won’t get his hands in the air.

            It is so easy for the prosecution to equate the trajectory of the bullet with both killer and victim in the upright position, using the Medical Examiner’s testimony and referring to (their own version of) LLMPapa’s brilliant analysis of relative height of the killer and his victim.

            My guess is that the prosecution won’t get into the position at the time of the shot because it’s so complicated — UNLESS there’s some damning FIBER EVIDENCE they can introduce. We know none of that yet. If there’s no additional conclusive evidence I think Bernie would let them assume the shooting was vertical and that Trayvon was so docile he stood stock-stil out of fear.

            But if there’s anyone experienced in combat on that jury, there’s going to be concern.

            Yes, there is the debris field, but I see those items in close proximity to “the takedown” and a result of the preliminary struggle.

            But the whole argument is “self defense” and it can be SO proved GZ was not under Trayvon. Of course, one of the many reasons I came to believe “GZ on top” was that GZ always says “the other guy did what I really did.”

            I am fascinated by the conspiracy prospect but the prosecution has to bring EVIDENCE forward to support that or O’Mara would make Bernie look like a fool (which is an amazing concept). Lonnie is the consummate crime scholar and I am impressed by all the plausible theories brought forth but have no evidence on which I can embrace those theories.

            So, Cielo – a lot more info to look forward to, right?

          • cielo62 says:

            PirhanaMom~ I’m honored you spent so much time on my visualization! I don’t shoot anything but spitballs. What you say makes sense, about just lifting up your butt a few inches to make the shot. But GZs arm movements during his 2 interviews show him consistently having his shooting arm straight. Since it’s one of the few things he doesn’t change in his narratives, I think it might be true. Accounting for that arm position, he would have had to have been standing. Why lock your elbows for shooting if you are hovered over your target? And would that position you suggest account for the straight back to front entry? I agree that fiber analysis will provide some more clues. I just never bought that “tussle” scene. GZ was too clean right afterwards. His vitals were NORMAL, after killing a human being and supposedly in a fight for his life. GZ could have gotten those baby scratches from slipping on the grass and conking his melon head on the dog poop sign. I’ve gotten worse scratches medicating a cat. All I can say is, June can’t get here soon enough.   Hoodies up! Tick, Tock!

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @Cielo –

            Yes, like you, I saw ” … GZs arm movements during his 2 interviews show him consistently having his shooting arm straight. Since it’s one of the few things he doesn’t change in his narratives, I think it might be true.”

            So here’s how I took those performances:

            GZ was demonstrating “supercop” shooting skills he learned from all those shooting lessons with Osterman, and those hundreds if not thousands of bullets they wasted on those paper targets.

            He proudly demonstrated his non-wavering Cool Hand Luke, “make my day!” gun-handling skills. Liked showing how unflappable and brave he was, finishing off the baddie without even flinching.

            He was performing for his audience: Sanford Police Department. He craved their admiration..

            Then LATER, it hit me: WATCH HIS OTHER HAND!

            He has his dominant left hand CURLED UP, really, really CLOSE TO HIS CHEST unconsciously remembering how he CLUTCHED Trayvon’s shirts.

            THAT unconscious re-creation of his hand told me he had Trayvon DETAINED and did NOT have to kill Trayvon to save his own life. There was NO “self defense.”

            Further, it’s hysterically funny that the bravado he shows with his proud, outstretched arm DEBUNKS his story of firing into Trayvon from underneath.

            But the hand he’s paying absolutely no attention to – the left, dominant arm – that hand DOES REMEMBER the position it was in when the shot was fired — it was grasping Trayvon’s shirts, to keep Trayvon steady as Zimmerman literally closed in for the kill, leaning over Trayvon, with that “in your face” mode, telling Trayvon, “You’re going to die tonight, mother-fucker,” then firing that single, CAREFULLY-placed shot into Trayvon’s heart.

            Please watch the re-creation again, Cielo, especially when he’s videod (without realizing it) talking to the stress-test operator.
            When Trayvon’s shirts are grasped as Zimmerman unconsciously shows, so close to Zimmerman’s chest, and you account for the “air lock” between shirts and body — how could Zimmerman POSSIBLY shoot with OUTstretched arm?

            NO ROOM to stretch out his arm.

            At the time of the shot, his elbow was bent, and his wrist bent carefully to place the muzzle of the gun, perpendicular to Trayvon’s chest, as Trayvon was pinned to the ground, so he could shoot straight into the heart.

            He did not want to shoot at an angle, because that might not have killed him. He wanted to drill that bullet straight in, and he did.

            With a liar like Zimmerman and all his heroic fiction, I’m placing my bet on what he DOESN’T try to “show to impress.”

            I watched what is second-nature to Zimmerman’s DOMINANT HAND — “the hand that remembers” – his left: CURLED AND GRASPING SO CLOSE TO ZIMMERMAN’S OWN CHEST.

            That is the arm, the hand, THE MOTION THAT I BELIEVE.

            Not trying to convince you, Cielo, Just telling you what I saw and how it convinced me.

            On the issue of the muss-free George, I agree with you on the band-box freshness of Zimmerman’s wardrobe. Kneeling on Trayvon’s arms to immobilize him, the only part of Zimmerman to touch earth would be the front tips of his boots. And we have all seen the photos of that grass.

            But there is more coming down the pike for us to see and learn.

            What we are all agreed on is that Zimmerman’s sorry lie about “being under Trayvon, with Zimmerman’s life at risk”, is total garbage.

            And so it will come to pass, that Zimmerman’s future is headed to the dumps, also.

          • Xena says:


            Accounting for that arm position, he would have had to have been standing.

            I agree. It has always been my belief that they were standing when GZ fired the gun. When I listened to the 911 tape that captured the screams, I could see it. After GZ told Trayvon to shut the f up, he thought Trayvon would submit, and began standing him up. But Trayvon tried turning to run and he screamed again. That is when we hear Trayvon begin a faint “help” that is cut short as though his body was jerked. Then the gun shot.

            I also believe that the injury to GZ’s nose was caused by the gun’s recoil since he shot with one hand. In the video for the voice stress test, watch GZ as he shows the recoil.

            It happened fast.

          • PiranhaMom says:


            Agree, Xena, on the recoil, particularly because GZ had to shoot one-handed, by necessity, 2/26/12 and the Kel-Tek is so lightweight and flimsy, without the mass to absorb the energy in the recoil.

            It was “POW! right to the kisser”, as Jackie Gleason liked to say.

            The overhead video with the stress-test operator is one of my faves. I don’t think Zimmerman was aware he was being taped.
            He was intent on impressing the operator, and not playing to the camera.

            Took me months and months to catch what GZ was doing unconsciously with this dominant left hand, as he tells his story.

            BUT – whatever scenario Bernie advances to the jury, it will debunk GZ’s claim that he was a helpless attack victim under Trayvon that night.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Lonnie is the consummate crime scholar and I am impressed by all the plausible theories brought forth but have no evidence on which I can embrace those theories.

            The purpose of having these theories is not to simply amuse, but it’s to have a frame in place in case meaningful evidence is caught, but has no theory needed to give it the context it needs. Evidence without a theory of what it means is useless.

            Let’s say they release the cctv’s from the other stores and complexes in the area and we notice the same car the 3 stooges arrived at the 711 in, coursing along the same route Trayvon would have taken to get home. Without a theory of what part these 3 guys could play in the saga, the meaning of this data could easily be lost. Especially if there is only one instance of capture. Because that would seem errant, coincidental and meaningless. With a theory of their possible involvement in place, one would then look to see how long it might have taken them to get to this point. It it takes them as long or longer to drive the distance that Trayvon has walked, well… Then we know what conclusions to jump to 😀

            Also you’ll no doubt note, I don’t just dream up these theories out of whole cloth, but there has to be evidence enough to indicate that some speculation is in order.

          • PiranhaMom says:


            I’m not disagreeing with any of your theories – or the value of theorizing. And I don’t see any of this done for amusement. I think it’s important to note all details that COULD BE applicable, and have a place to plug in evidence when it becomes available. So there is enormous merit in what you are doing, and everyone who contributes theories/scenarios/concepts.

            What I have been saying is that I am not YET (repeat: YET)convinced of conspiracy or “pre-injury by GZ” scenarios.

            I think Osterman was on board – he was certainly “on site” immediately – but do not yet perceive the killing was premeditated in advance with others.

            I am an avid follower of your work and believe it has tremendous value. You are detailed, analytical and persistent, putting together the facts you discern with great logic.

            As I keep saying, “There’s more to learn.”

            That day is coming soon.

          • cielo62 says:

            PirhanaMom~ I think Osterman’s role was to help in the APPREHENSION of Trayvon. But GZ, being both a loser and an hothead, decided to kill Trayvon. I’m sure Osterman was extremely pissed at that turn of events, so he spirited Zimmerman away that same night to get a story pieced together. In order to justify an apprehension, Zimmerman also needed some “proof” of a crime. He was going for assault, not theft. Trayvon smacks Zimmerman, Zimmy can claim detaining Trayvon for assault. Hence, the pre-wounds.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Food for thinking:

            [it’s difficult writing and keeping it brief as well, so re-read it using several different views of what I seem to be saying. Then post back your own questions and ideas. This is not a contest, it is an investigation, where we start with the possibility that people who commit crimes, will go to great lengths to avoid paying serious consequences]

            I’ve been trying, periodically, to work with a theory like yours [and mine too], but I find problems. One problem, easily solved is, why MO needs to be covered for, he was there to help apprehend Trayvon, but he still did not want to be a part of the scene when the police arrived. This makes sense because with his credentials, he’d make a strong supporter for GZ from the background. So, he’d have the “Call my wife” ruse as a standard plan. The trouble with this idea is that it would mean that MO went on patrols with him often. This could easily be accomplished if MO kept his distance from GZ, so no one would recognize them as partners then.

            Otherwise, if MO does not regularly hunt with GZ, and this was a one-off thing. How does a low level thing like a simple apprehension, require this level of planning? How do they achieve it for just this one single event? Because to work it requires they have Shelly’s position somewhere outside RATL as well. So, although I see no evidence that MO goes on these patrols with GZ, there is a real possibility that they did at times. If so, did MO know Ransberg(burg) and Burgess? If he spends any time at RATL, he has the skill set that would put these boys on his radar, for sure. Remember, he was fired for corruption, not incompetence.

            Make no mistake, this is Florida and a very racist county to boot. I have no doubt that had Trayvon not been killed, Tracey and Brandy et al could have raised a bit of a stink, but it would have all been put to rest quietly without any charges, there certainly would have been no Atty Crump or Sharpton. The racists in charge would have simply stood their ground, and without a death, there would have been no way to build any momentum, so the whole thing would have died, or developed into a minor civil suit against GZ and the HOA, but with no national and little local attention.

            So that would have been a basic plan, which did not include any killing. But, once GZ had killed TM, he would realized then how important it would be, to ensure that MO had his cover, so that he could be free to lend ongoing support. Trouble there is, it pre supposes that there will be some investigation. Nor is that indication of pre-planning a little thing. Think about this: Since GZ abides by NW rules so scrupulously on every other call in, he obviously knows the rules by heart. But the devices GZ uses on the NEN call on 2/26/12 are not created ‘on the fly”, since they require advanced planning.

            In fact, it makes great sense that there is a NEN call, contrived from the earliest, to provide cover for all GZ’s support team. Hence the call is contrived to start with a coincidental sighting near Taaffe’s place. Providing cover for all by making it appear that GZ does not need any supporters. But, when was it realized that the call should start there? Probably not on the spot, so it’s more likely than not that something was planned.

            Yet another thing to think about is, to make this story work, someone would have to know that Trayvon had actually gone to the 711, and not to the MI bank eh? Since, according to the story, Trayvon had not been seen going anywhere and returning. GZ would not know about the skittles and tea until after he killed Trayvon. Ostensibly no one would have known where Trayvon was, until he appeared in the cut through at FT’s. But, GZ actually does not see Trayvon until he looks in the mail kiosk.

            So, how does he know to construct a tale about Trayvon coming by FT’s, where GZ passes way too late to see him there? Why does he get this path of travel so right? Just a wild guess? Like the wild guess he made to leave home and head straight for the mail kiosk?

            Of course, my point is: You can’t have too many “favorable” things that must happen, ~ happen by coincidence! One coincidence, occurring fortuitously on time is fine. But when you need more than one, and they both [or even more] happen on time, in just the right way, place and time to further the operation, you have a falsehood.

            So, these “conspiracy theories” I seem to be dreaming up, are really attempts to replace the various coincidences, with alternative causes. Happy Hunting.
            |||=> Tick Tock! <-|||

          • racerrodig says:

            Lonnie. The coincidence of Fogen spotting Trayvon at Taaffe’s from day one never sold me. Then the timeline crushed that. Then it turns out Frank “The Racist Tank”: is Fogens friend and a big mouth, giving clues as he goes. It became obvious Fogen is lying. At 1st I thought he called Fogen and now with information about the “Condo Connection” it seems Trayvon was being observed well before.

            Phone records…..it’s going to come to phone records. I’ll bet the farm SheLie was with him, exited the truck, went one way and Osterliar was there on a different route. Trayvon being on edge by Fogen following him was “herded” back and that’s where Fogen confronted him. SheLie’s recent phone records retrieval is a key.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            The digital age is just too much for these “Conservative” types to handle, eh?

          • racerrodig says:

            You got that right. God forbid anything rock their precious little racist boats……like the truth or reality.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            I’m with you on not liking some of my theories, some of them don’t impress me much at all either, but I can’t stand to see, what could be valuable evidence go to waist, if it points somewhere that might be fruitfully explored.

            They started the Ransberg(burg) questions when they used him and Burgess to show that “they don’t always get away”. But they mentioned that Ransberg(burg) was white and that he traveled with three blacks. So, it struck me as rather odd that a white guy would show up at 711, with two black guys in tow, what with Burgess being in jail the count just seemed to click.

            I’m still on the fence about whether it was premeditated or not. By which I mean not a spur of the moment decision, but the result of a longer advanced plan. Of course, as Professor has pointed out, it could be murder 1, based only on that final split second. But I’m not yet dealing with that. Although I do believe that GZ decided to pull the trigger without facing any real threat. The prosecution is probably not willing to risk it all on an M1 trial.

          • Xena says:

            @Lonnie Starr

            Evidence without a theory of what it means is useless.

            Although I had not thought about it along those lines, I can now see the application.

            You noticed the behavior of the 3 stooges in the 7-Eleven, and Trayvon leaving just after they drove off. I had not noticed that. Now I am able to use an outline involving evidence and theory. For instance, my theory is based on GZ using NW as a cover-up for his gang of thieves. That is based on evidence from his MySpace page; how he behaved in court as ShelLIE misrepresented her knowledge of the Paypal donations, and his gang tattoo.

            Moving along from there;

            Evidence: GZ abandoned his home just after leaving the police station after he killed Trayvon.

            Question: Why would he do that? It’s a gated community. Although anyone might have been able to walk into the community, only residents or visitors in vehicles let in by residents can do a “drive-by.”

            Logical answer: GZ had to be afraid of someone who resides in that gated community.

            Evidence: GZ associated his observation of Burgess with his reason for thinking Trayvon was suspicious.

            Question: Why would GZ use his observation of Burgess, who he had seen previously in that community on garbage days, with Trayvon who he said he had not seen before?

            Logical answer: Burgess is somehow involved in GZ’s reason for wanting to “capture” Trayvon, but not for the reason GZ gives. Burgess resided in that community.

            Then you came along with the theory that Burgess was a member of the ring including the 3 stooges.

            I am still convinced that someone beat the daylights out of GZ that Friday or Saturday resulting in the head boo-boo’s, and picking at the scalps started the bleeding again that Sunday evening.

          • cielo62 says:

            PiranhaMom~ I posted mine before I read this. Yes, it’s pretty much what I had envisioned except for a few details. You’ll see in my complete post. I don’t think GZ was ever totally “on top of” Trayvon, except maybe for the frisking and turning over a limp body. The only thing you missed was the debris field.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        Yahtzee+Rachael+gbrbsb+George’s tendency to claim for himself what his victim does=Trayvon was squirming to get away from under (that insane, evil) Fogen, so Fogen shot him from on top of him while grabbing sweatshirts to keep him from getting away.

        Oh, do I hope the “cleaned up 911 call” shows exactly what this evil son-of-a-gun has done. And the fiber testing. And the RATL witnesses. I hope the State doesn’t have to turn to Shellie or Mark Osterman at all.

        • Xena says:

          @Cercando Luce

          Oh, do I hope the “cleaned up 911 call” shows exactly what this evil son-of-a-gun has done. And the fiber testing.

          Oh yes!! And GZ’s phone records; his medical history; why he does not have a gun registered to himself; and whether his CCL was valid. And — And, what did the FDLE observe of his actions when he left town until he rolled into Jacksonville.

      • gbrbsb says:

        @cercando luce

        Yahtzee+Rachael+gbrbsb+George’s tendency to claim for himself what his victim does=Trayvon was squirming to get away from under (that insane, evil) Fogen, so Fogen shot him from on top of him while grabbing sweatshirts to keep him from getting away.

        What ? Are you saying GZ is actually saying that Trayvon managed to squirm out from underneath him!!!???

        CL, methinks you are confused. GZ has basically two types of slips and the interviews are littered with both types:

        1. He inadvertently lets the truth out and quickly corrects it

        2. He tries to project onto Trayvon what he was doing.

        In this case, as I am sure you are not trying to say that Trayvon squirmed out from underneath GZ, from the extremely fluid description he was giving Singleton, and from my own logic, this is a type 1. slip, i.e. GZ was underneath Trayvon but as he says managed to squirm his way out from underneath which if you take it further put him in a position to be able to shoot Trayvon which he did… it puts him on top. This is not to say Trayvon wasn’t squirming to get away, just that in this case GZ is not projecting, he is merely telling the plain and simple truth which is HE GOT OUT FROM UNDERNEATH changing a hell of a lot in his story and not in his favour.

        • PiranhaMom says:


          re: “This is not to say Trayvon wasn’t squirming to get away, just that in this case GZ is not projecting, he is merely telling the plain and simple truth which is HE GOT OUT FROM UNDERNEATH changing a hell of a lot in his story and not in his favour.”

          That is how John W^ described in his second (corrective) interview that he saw Zimmerman trying to rise and reverse his position – he ha not yet scooted over to the dogwalk.

          I know JohnW6 is heavily discounted here, but I thought that second interview was credible – and compelling.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Yes, Trayvon WAS underneath gz trying unsucessfully (maybe by squirming) to get out of that position. However, sadly, gz remained on top.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        And, gz remained in control and shot Trayvon dead.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        Trayvon’s clothing was embedded with debris front and back, whereas the evil clod looked like he was fresh from the cleaners, front and back (except the toes of his shoes), in his police-station photos.

        I think there’s a third variable, although not a slip: George “borrows” his victim’s actions for his lies, which makes them easier to believe because he describes a detailed sequence of actions that actually happened(to his victim) which he observed– and he claims it for himself.

        Trayvon squirmed trying to escape his tormentor, and his hoody slid up. IMO, the single blood-drop from GZ on the bottom of Trayvon’s undershirt dripped from behind GZ’s head, possibly before he grabbed the shirts and shot. If he were on top at the time of the shot, with his firing arm bent as he showed in his interviews, the gun was close to his face and unsupported, it kicked back into his nose (hence nosebleed), and the shell casing hit and burnt the side of bridge of nose (still looks like a burn months later).

        The more I think about it,
        0.) the more I loathe the lying defendant, if possible, and
        1.) the more I think the defendant remained on top of his victim for a full minute before killing him. Feared for his life, not so much.

        • PiranhaMom says:


          None of us have seen the dimensions and shape of the Zimmerman blood on Trayvon’s undershirt – we just see that it was identified after analysis by the Medical Examiner for DNA.

          This was sweatshirt material also. They can identify by shape (droplet or smear, for example) for the jurors.

          I believe Zimmerman’s blood got on the front undershirt after the shot, when Zimmerman was searching the body. He was rummaging around looking for a gun/holster – first in front, then flipped him over and searched in back – where Zimmerman kept his holster (“Flipped” is the word Det. Serino used.)

          Zimmerman’s blood would have gotten on Zimmerman’s hand without Z thinking – he put his finger to his lip or nose because it was uncomfortably sticky, simply by reflex. I think the recoil snapped back and cracked Z on the lip/lower nose (or just the lip.) At that point, he bled, then Zimmerman checked it out with his finger, One of those quick moves people make without even thinking. Then, within a few seconds, that hand smeared it on Trayvon’s undershirt during the weapons search.

          Zimmerman would hope to find Trayvon to be armed, because it would bolster Z’s story that Trayvon was a thug, and Z was thus in fear for his life.

          Also, witnesses saw Zimmerman running his hands over Trayvon’s body (his back) after the shot. I believe he was checking for an exit wound. He would not expect one, because he used a hollow-point bullet, – but if there WERE an exit wound, the bullet would be embedded in the earth, and it would be proof that Z shot Trayvon while he had Trayvon pinned to the ground, meaning big trouble for Z. The hollow-point, however, performed as expected.

          I agree that Trayvon was imprisoned by Z the whole length of the scream, because there were no volume fluctuations as would be caused by movement.

          The terror Trayvon felt cannot be imagined.

          The depravity exhibited by Zimmerman can, and will be be shown.

          Zimmerman likely had a full minute to consider causing the death of this young person. He went right ahead and did it.

          • racerrodig says:

            From the desk of racerrodig

            Well said. Knowing FogenPhoole had that much time to terrorize Trayvon makes on sick. I can'[t wait for the second when the Jury Foreperson says “…guilty of murder in the 2nd degree” I hope he passes out and wackes his head on the chair, then the table,
            O’ Mara tries to help him stay upright, but they go down and get their noggins bashed.

          • PiranhaMom says:


            “I can’[t wait for the second when the Jury Foreperson says “…guilty of murder in the 2nd degree” I hope he passes out and whacks his head on the chair, then the table,
            “O’ Mara tries to help him stay upright, but they go down and get their noggins bashed.

            Yep, Racer – “two bloody noses, comin’ up!”

          • racerrodig says:

            From the desk of racerrodig

            I think it will be “..undisputed..” Fogen broke my nose….I believe I have probable cause.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            From the Desk Of Lonnie Starr:

            I wonder if they will allow the jury to find him Guilty of Murder 2 “With Special Circumstances”? Meaning aggravated and such.

            Don’t worry, there’s no chance of GZ taking anyone with him if he goes down. Everyone will have edge away to safe distances from him. Court officers won’t move unless he lunges for the door, otherwise they’ll just watch. MOM and West will stand back and probe GZ with sticks to keep a safe distance.

          • racerrodig says:

            From the desk of racerrodig

            I know in NJ in a case like this, the Sheriffs Officers very slyly get behind the defendant “just in case” Sometimes it comes under the heading “Good Move”

            Sometimes the victims family go on the offensive, but that’s usually at sentencing. That’s always a good time and make good U Tube videos.

        • racerrodig says:

          From the desk of racerrodig

          I also loathe them to no end. To terrify a kid, then claim his yells for help, his final words and shoot him anyway is beyond all comprehension.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Xena, when the POS rolled into Jacksonville as you say, did he actually think he was going to talk Angie Corey to try and lie his way out of being charged and arrested for murdering this child? what a damn stupid ass POS he really is.

        The funny part about it is that, he walked himself right into an arrest for second degree murder, LMAO! now to the part about him clamoring for his wife to get his laptop, was he having two heart attacks and a funny spell, to get his laptop, to do some deleting of some damaging emails sent to him from maybe Larry and Moe? boy I tell you, when and if they read a verdict of “GUILTY” for this fool, he is going to crap his pants, right then and there.

        Maybe Renee Stutzman will be more than happy to clean his fat ass up.

        • Xena says:


          @Xena, when the POS rolled into Jacksonville as you say, did he actually think he was going to talk Angie Corey to try and lie his way out of being charged and arrested for murdering this child? what a damn stupid ass POS he really is.

          Well, Papa Zim had already asked the investigators to make it all go away. GZ apparently thought that he had more influence.

          Funny thing is that during his cross-examination of Gilbreath, at GZ’s bond hearing, BDLR asked if it was true that GZ knew FDLE had monitored him the entire time he was out of town. That was true. So GZ knew he was being watched by FDLE.

          What better way to try and circumvent arrest and flee that than to make Corey think that FDLE were the bad guys causing GZ to be afraid?

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Xena, how did the FDLE know where he was, since he was in hiding with his mentor Osterman and, did the old man really think the FDLE would really look the other way on this and, just let this bird brain POS get away with killing a child?

        For him to think that he could talk his way out of this, just goes to show just how dumb he is and, the same goes for his father. the thing with his father and his family in general, they know he is guilty and, they also know what he is capable of doing, since he has been in and out of trouble for most of his adult life, as well as what he did to his cousin at such an early age.

        For some reason, he IMO was made to leave the Commonwealth of Va. it would be most interesting to find out why he left there at an early age. they knew he had anger management issues and, instead of them getting him the help that he needed, they just shipped their problem to the state of Florida.

        They are just as much to blame for what he did as he is.

        • Xena says:


          @Xena, how did the FDLE know where he was, since he was in hiding with his mentor Osterman and,

          Just goes to show — people can be tracked and found through many means, such as license plates, phones, use of debit and/or credit cards.

          did the old man really think the FDLE would really look the other way on this and, just let this bird brain POS get away with killing a child?

          Of course, without any investigation and solely based on him saying it was GZ screaming for help. Papa Zim has been active in GZ’s excuses/defense, limited to 2 things — the yells for help and his boo-boos. Just wait until trial when prosecutors present evidence refuting GZ’s lies.

      • ladystclaire says:

        This B*****D deserves to spend the rest of his life behind bars. if his parents had got him the kind of help that he needed and, they knew his had issues with anger, maybe they wouldn’t feel that they have to lie for him and his anger issues, that led him to murder an innocent kid.

        They IMO feel the guilt of what he has done, knowing that he was very capable of doing what he did, when he killed Trayvon. even though they are lying for him, they are just as guilty as he is and, they know it. instead of them just allowing him to be held accountable for what he’s done, they are taking to the media as well as blog sites to take part in smearing this child’s name as well as those he left behind.

        Are they so ignorant that, they think people don’t know how they are taking part in smearing and slandering this kid and his family, on several blog sites? on HP ZSr. is LJP as well as some other names that he uses. then Fogen himself is believed to be darkskiesrbest, and he has several other alias’s on HP. they should all be ashamed of themselves, for taking part in these sites.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Xena, I can’t wait until all of his dirty laundry form that night, is hung out to dry. those who support the POS know just as well as we do, that he is guilty as charged yet they want to see him get away with what he did.

        Maybe next time he will kill one of their family members and, IMO that will be a good thing.

        • Xena says:


          … those who support the POS know just as well as we do, that he is guilty as charged yet they want to see him get away with what he did.

          I have a different perspective. Zidiots do not support GZ, the person. He is nothing more to them than an empty mouse trap. They continue trying to put bait on it, while catching nothing. Their stated purpose, whether through dog whistles or directly, is to provoke racial warfare; promote their conspiracy of a BGI, and eliminate racial equality from America.

          Why do you think they have good things to say about Junior, while leaving GZ completely out of the conversation? Because Junior’s diatribes are about race and the “liberal” media. Why the liberal media? Not because of what they reported about the case, but because of who reported it; i.e., Black men who have their own television and/or radio programs and/or are well known in journalism.

          They could care less about GZ’s case, whether he is acquitted or sent to prison for the rest of his life. They are using GZ’s case to wage warfare against attorney Crump and Trayvon’s parents. Sadly, they have led O’Mara down their path for more than a year, and he has made it clear that he is not ready for trial.

        • Xena says:


          Maybe next time he will kill one of their family members …

          You mean, from behind prison walls, right?

  34. jo says:

    from the desk of jo

    in regards to “from the desk of Robert Zimmerman”

    I think i just found a photo of said desk –

    apparently he’s not a fan of color

    • PiranhaMom says:

      @Jo –

      re:apparently he’s not a fan of color

      Hey, Jo, thanks — for RZJr, it’s “whites only.”

    • parrot says:

      Empty suit … empty desk …

    • racerrodig says:

      From the desk of racerrodig

      A hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha !!

      Pricele$$, just Pricele$$ You got it !! just shades of white.

      • Rachael says:

        I wish there was some way that just for one day we could all have that for our avatar or whatever you call that icon thing and the only way we would know each other would be “from the desk of xxxx” OMG, that would be so funny for one of “them” to wander over here and see that.

        • racerrodig says:

          From the desk of racerrodig

          I’m not that computer savvy but maybe I can figure it out. if I do, I’ll post how to do it.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            from the desk of fauxmccoy

            go to gravatar.com and upload a photo of the desk of your choice and choose it as your primary ‘avatar’. i can see mine is working now. this is not mine, sadly, i cannot afford the exquisite furniture designed by antoni gaudi, as much as i would like to.

          • racerrodig says:

            Well check mine out……..I made a sign up, took a photo, put the photo in my computer and assigned it as my Gravatar…Ain’t that the bees knees……Personalized Service.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            looks awesome, racer!

      • Rachael says:

        Good idea. I’m going to take a nap, then clean off my desk and make it look all pretty for y’all.

        • racerrodig says:

          From the desk of racerrodig

          I just made my avatar a picture of my desk. Yessiree…I got one over on Robbie the Racist and Mami now.

  35. Mack Lyons ‏ @DDSSBlog

    Being black in America means navigating a constant minefield of stress, oppression and certain death for no reason. Trayvon Martin didn’t make it.


  36. racerrodig says:

    From the desk of racerrodig

    Note to LLMPapa :

    You are the best…….another work of art.

  37. LLMPapa says:



    • Rachael says:

      TO: LLMPapa

      We all are so proud of him. Such a fine American, you know.

      Thanks. That was a good one. BTW, I like your big desk 😉 LOL

    • Xena says:

      TO: The Desk of LLMPapa
      FROM: The Mount Olympus Office of Xena


    • ay2z says:

      Serino: ‘What’s your highest level of education?’

      Fogen: “Associates”

      and a few minutes later, “Continuing for my bachelors”.

      Doesn’t he know it’s not nice to dress up and pretend to family and friends? And really really not nice to LIE to Detective Serino?

    • parrot says:

      Papa, what WELL DESERVED stinging rebuke for a RIDICULOUS WOMAN!

    • Trained Observer says:


      Does the Great Pretender’s momma plan to show her face at trial? Or will this poor excuse for a mother shroud herself in burka?

      Would love to see this woman’s Florida Driver license photo …

    • Tzar says:

      From the desk of Tzar
      That was fanastic
      ha ha ha

    • Malisha says:

      LLMPapa, is this a photograph that was taken at the party Sandra Osterman threw for Fogen for his alleged graduation?

      Wow. Where did you get it?

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Could be the actual graduation. It’s my understanding that he was allowed to walk in the ceremony even though he hadn’t quite finished the credits and then was denied the degree when the case broke.

      • LLMPapa says:

        I got it from the vid of Momma Z on Piers Morgan.

    • Operacarla says:

      From the desk of Operacarla

      LMMPapa….you are so important to The Justice for Trayvon team

  38. jo says:

    so in other words…someone else did something wrong and that means Trayvon deserved to be shot too.

    Can’t wait for them to delve in to GZ’s past indiscretions in all fairness, since they’re in pursuit of the truth and all that..

    • Rachael says:

      To: The Desk of Jo

      Ha!!! They already know quite a bit about GZ’s past “indiscretions” (crimes – be honest now). They aren’t interested in fairness or truth.

      But as far as “someone else did something wrong and that means Trayvon deserved to be shot too,” that’s what they do over there. Every day. Same old thing. They post stories of black male youth who have committed a crime and bitch about the “problem” of black people and somehow tie all these crimes all into Trayvon, as if he, even though dead, is responsible.

      Now their Butt-in-a-Box leader, has committed more criminal activity than anyone I’m personally acquainted with, but you don’t see them posting any kind of crimes associated or done by white male youth, complaining about violence in general. It is all blacks, all blacks’ fault, Trayvon was black, therefore, it is all his fault. That seems to be their thinking.

      • ladystclaire says:

        From the desk of LadyStClaire, @Rachael, I am sick and tired of these racist bigoted *HEATHENS* who can only see crimes that are committed by AA in this country. the IMBECILES turn a blind eye to all of these *MASS* SCHOOL SHOOTINGS, committed by none other than, *WHITE* males for high school to college age, their race of young *WHITE* males have been the ones to shoot up schools that are full of young people.

        There was even a case, where a young white female, was given a gun as a Christmas gift which she used to pick off school age kids, from her very own bedroom window. how many AA do you know, who gives a gun to a child as a Christmas gift? I don’t know of any. it’s time for these KKK members to start taking a look at the crimes committed by their own race and, stop making it look as though their own people are free of any kind of criminal activity at all. BTW, they commit more murders than these *POINTY HEADS* are willing to admit because, they are too damn busy point the finger at AA or those of Hispanic descent.

        Just tune in to the ID channel and, you will see just how many murders on those shows are committed by whites. I’m not trying to make white people look like murdering thugs, I’m just trying to be fair and balanced about what these tree people are putting out and on mainly AA. I know very well, that AA commit crimes just like people in every race known to man but, they are not the only ones who commit murder. I’m just sick of this shit out of people like those who wear pointy hats to fit their pointy heads. they need to sweep around their own damn back door, before messing with someone else’s.

      • ladystclaire says:

        BTW, please overlook my typos in the above comment but, I’m really pissed that these people can only see the crimes that AA commit and, never what their own race commit. IMO two of the biggest and most shameful murders committed by them were the murders of Emmett Till and George Stinney.

        The state of S.C. executed a 14 year old child in 1944, for a crime he did not commit. he died for a crime committed by a white kid from a well to do family. Emmett Till also aged 14 was murdered by two white men in Money Mississippi in 1955 because, he was accused of whistling at a white woman, who was the wife of one of his murderers. I can go on and on but, they know their murdering history just as well as I do. I’m not directing this to all white people no, not at all. I’ve just had enough of the tree people and their rude comments about AA and how they commit all of the crimes in this country according to them.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        From the Desk of Two Sides.

        They need to check out all the crime of white hispanic black peruvians in Los Angeles. Or all the white crime in say, Salt Lake City! :/

      • Rachael says:

        To: ladystclaire

        When one goes over there and sees their stories and comments and the totally humanly disgraceful comments at the so-called news outlets, I wouldn’t blame you one single bit if your comments were directed at all white people. Those people are so sick and disgusting they have made me feel filthy and totally ashamed of being white. I want so badly to apologize for their behavior. I so hope that is not how white people look to people of color. I can only hope it is realized they are not “white people,” they are – as you say, “tree people,” but honestly, I’m not sure anymore. I had no idea there could be such horrible cruel and disgusting individuals. Anyway, I am so sorry that it is being done by people who look like me.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Rachael, You are a good person and, you have a heart to match who you are. there are also other whites on this site and on others who are also good people as well, and they also know how this *LIAR* murdered this child Trayvon Martin in cold blood and, they all are expressing their what they really feel about what he did to an AA child. but, those *HEATHENS* and there are many more like them in this country, who need to stop with the lies about AA commit most of the crimes in this country.

        AA have been accused of committing crimes that, they didn’t even commit and, there are quite a few of them. Susan Smith lied about a black man taking her two kids as well as her car. Chuck Stuart shot and killed his pregnant wife and unborn child and blamed it on a black man. there are others but, I’m not going to list them all here. this is the kind of BS that confront a people who never asked to come here to this country.

        These people really need to just take the time to reflect on some of the BS that they are putting out there, about people who haven’t done a thing to them, yet they express their hatred for them in more ways than you or I could ever imagine. You are not responsible for their warped since of entitlement so, please don’t feel bad about being of the same race as they are because, like I said you are a good person/woman and, I like you very very much. this is exactly how I feel about everyone here on this site and on others, who are supporting Trayvon, Jordan and their families. this is after all suppose to be one nation under GOD right.

  39. kllypyn says:

    I may have to stop following this case. It is literally making me sick. The hatred for a murder victim is unheard of. they are not asking why this 208lb man couldn’t handle a 158lb teenager without killing him. they are not asking why didn’t he let trayvon go after he started screaming. They are not asking why did he pursue Trayvon. they are not asking why if Trayvon beat him like he claims. Where is the bruising?where are the black eyes? They are not asking,how did he get his gun? It was on his right rear hip. It would have been impossible for him to grab it like he claims. they ignore the evidence which show he had trayvon restrained when he was killed. They gloss over his own records of violence while making up stuff about Trayvon. Trayvon was innocent he was an average teenager who got in trouble sometimes, nothing serious no violence involved just the minor nonsense teenagers get it trouble for. I usually don’t there,but i get the feeling if Trayvon was a white kid and Zimmerpunk was black. the silly stuff Trayvon got in trouble for wouldn’t even be mentioned and those same zimmerpunk supporters would be crying for zimmerpunjks head on a platter.but because Trayvon was a black kid. Writing on a locker makes him a thug. Cutting classes makes him a troubled kid. smoking weed makes him drug crazed. Smoking weed makes you sluggish and hungry not violent. unlike alcohol. All he had to do was wait for the police. He should have left Trayvon alone.

    • Rachael says:


      I know. Look at this: “I am still a bit mystified where this is going. By Part #9 will we finally learn something juicy and new about naughty things TM did at school ?”

      That’s all they want.

      They are just bullies.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        From the Desk of Two Sides:

        Part 9? 9 Parts? You’re ishin’ me, right?

      • Rachael says:

        Oh, I think they are just upset over there. They were wanting something dirty on Trayvon, not something about police corruption. But I see they are up to 5 now. LOL – here is the “plan:”

        We have decided the best way to absorb the massive amount of information in the FOIA release is to break it down into intellectually digestible bite sized morsels.

        Each day we will introduce to you “a new perspective”, more information about the now apparent intentional manipulation within the former M-DSPD objectives; and more information about Trayvon Martin’s interactions with them.

        The storyline carries itself against the backdrop of the George Zimmerman case because it outlines the Trayvon story that was, until today, hidden from view.

        There will be a few updates throughout the process each day as we present the discoveries from the words of the participants – via their sworn statements and affidavits. At the end of each segment we will drop the FOIA release as it pertains to the evidence.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        From the Desk of Two Sides: LOL. Translation – We got two reams of paper to yap about in several installments, but like Rachael says over at FL, it’s not about Trayvon.”

  40. Rachael says:


    I don’t know what they’re bitching about over there at the refuse outhouse. Aside from they don’t know what they are talking about, they have a lot of nerve upset about closed cases when their “hero” walked away from assaulting a police officer with a diversion that HAD TO BE EXTENDED because of inadequate participation as well as his other crimes that mysteriously were closed. And he was allowed to buy a gun for Christ’s sake!!! Not only that, any one else who would have pulled the bail stunt he did would NOT be out right now, so I wish they would stop their baby whining, put on their big boy pants and stop worshiping their Butt in a Box (love it Xena), who should have been put away a long time ago.

    There was something else I was going to say but I’ve lost my train of thought.

  41. jo says:

    haha….this response to an OS article on O’Mara’s timely begging for more cash made me smile….very short, sweet and accurate………….

    “Now the mother’s entertaining letter on yesterday makes sense. She could have saved a lot of time by just holding out the tin can. Gotta love this klan”

    • Soulcatcher says:

      Maybe O’Mara sould ask Osterman for the proceeds from his book, after all he is the best friend of George Zimmerman, and said he would die for him. One ringy dingy, two ringy dingy….What no answer……Haven’t hear much from his black friend, nor Taffee lately. I guess the 3 stooges are keeping a low profile.

  42. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    So, like everyone else, gz will be filing his annual income tax form on Monday. hmm

    • Lynn says:

      From the TV tray of Lynn

      I wonder if GZ will be filing a w-2 from his work? Yes, you heard me right. WORK!

      I’m reading the Ch 13 interview http://tinyurl.com/c6os4v6 with JR and can’t believe what I’m seeing.

      The question is, “Do you get to talk to him?”

      RZ: Yeah, I do get to see George. It’s very rare. We both have extremely busy schedules, and we’re very encouraged as a family that George is able to participate in his defense, despite that that’s really the only place he can go, pursuant to his bond order. But he makes it to work and he participates in his defense, and it’s important that he does, because he’s the one that can answer a lot of these questions that are going to be forthcoming at trial.




      • jo says:

        haha so he’s getting paid for this i assume. they are just despicable aren’t they

      • Rachael says:


        I think he means GZ’s busy schedule is getting to all his psych appointments – and meals (although I’m a fine one to talk about either one – but I haven’t killed anyone lately).

      • jo says:

        yeah, maybe that’s the motive, tray wouldn’t hand over his skittles.

      • Trained Observer says:

        ROFLMAO — For MOM & West that must be one of the biggest nightmares of all — Fogen’s “participation” in his defense, as if this numbnutz is capable of putting together a coherent sentence in a brief. I wouldn’t trust him to proofread my grocery list.

      • Xena says:

        Answer questions at trial??!!??!! That means O’Mara is coaching him to testify. We’re going to see Butt get in the box!

        Hallelujah! Sock it to ya!

        • PiranhaMom says:


          Butt in the Box! Butt in the Box!
          We’re going to see Butt in the Box!
          The guy with the brain like a bag full of rocks
          Is going to tell all when he gets in The Box

          Butt in the Box! Butt in the Box!
          Shouldn’t O’Mara stuff his mouth full of sox?
          But he found it so full of bagels and lox
          There was no way in hell to silence this Pox.

          Butt in the Box! Butt in the Box!
          Thinks he’s smarter than even your wiliest fox.
          He’ll learn there’s no safety midst jailhouse jocks,
          When justice slaps Fogen in that Big Barred Box.

      • Rachael says:

        PiranhaMom, you’re having way too much fun LOL

      • Rachael says:

        Ooooh, yeah!

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        New interview with Gladys Z where she tells how gz is working on his defense:

      • ladystclaire says:

        Why in the hell are all of these media people having these jack ass’s on their shows or their TV news stations, spewing more of their convoluted “LIES” I mean what this family is doing is not news and, these people should be ashamed of themselves for having them on their media outlet “LYING.”

        George Zimmerman killed a child in cold blood and, here we have his family going around to every TV news venue as well as some talk shows, trying to gain sympathy, taint a jury pool and most of all solicit money from those who are dumb enough to give them money.

        I don’t know but, if judge Nelson had granted the prosecution’s motion for a gag order to be put in place for this case, would it have muzzled the family of this murderer? something needs to be done to stop them from their relentless efforts, of doing all they can to sway the jury for this upcoming trial. the thing with that, is they are doing it with MOM blessings. this man would have the common sense people of this country, to believe that he was upset about the *VILLAGE IDIOT’S* last twitter rant, when know damn well he wasn’t. he more than likely had him do it.

      • cielo62 says:

        FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK of Cielo62~  This is all just pure BS. That entire article made me want to hurl chunks. And the little poll just reinforces my belief that there are WAY too many stupid, blind and hate-filled people in the world today.

    • racerrodig says:

      From the desk of racerrodig

      Oh I can see that letter to the IRS…….

      Dear Mr. Taxman, my wife and I can’t file on time because we’re really busy and we didn’t make any money this year because my mom told me to tell you the justice system failed us. Can we skip this year. Oh and can you send us a $125,000.00 refund so I can keep up my security.

      Cheorge Zippyhead

      • Soulcatcher says:

        To the desk of racerrodig
        From the desk of Soulcatcher

        My desk is just like yours. It came from the lumber yard my parents owned from 1955. And guess what, I have the key. My laptop sits right on top of the pull out, and I have a four drawer metal file cabinet next to the desk. I keep mine in the garage, next to a 50 inch projection tv. If fogen does file taxes, I’ll bet he adds the renters credit. I can hear him now, Well I was a renter, just cause I didn’t pay, doesn’t mean nuttin. I used my truck to stalk them fu***** coons, I mean punks around, so I can claim mileage too. I used my cell phone to call NEN on those blacks up to no good, so I can write that off to, and the mileage to the dr’s when that black kid nearly killed me.

        • racerrodig says:

          From the desk of racerrodig

          I can’t imagine his write off list, but you named some of them. He’ll probably add “9 MM Ammunition” as a business expense and depreciate his little pistol as “being used” Just a few minutes alone with him………he’ll find out what a mature person can do in defense.

          He’ll need more than knuckle bandages I can guarantee that.

  43. colin black says:

    Call me dence but when you run a blog site dedicated to right wing raceist bigots an constantly claim to have the inside scoop.
    Doesnt the facts you write as gospell impact the credibilty of not only your loyal reader.
    But your critics as well .

    A week or so your wrote an open letter to D West begging him to take over the reigns in the defence of the accussed CHILD MURDERER.
    You said he was the defendants only hope as M O M is an Idiot or words to that effect.Week later you stated as Fact that M O M Advised the retreat at twin lakes H O A to accept the near two two million settlement an settle with the Martyns.

    Now we know M O M is still finagling to depose Ben Crump an also wants the details of the settlement made public.
    Doubtfull he would neeeed to do this or even want to do this if he were in fact privvy to an an adviser to said finacial settlement.

    So Sudance when can we expect the dissclaiimer an apoligy you owe M O M for wrongly an falcely an malicioucly claiming all thease blatant lies about your man foggagges attorney?

    • fauxmccoy says:

      first rule of the outhouse:

      mr cracker is never wrong

      (gag … this is difficult to type, even from my desk)

  44. kllypyn says:

    My response to a nut job in reference what was posted on the conservative tree house…. So I am George Zimmerman. You and the conservative tree house,are making a big to do,because Trayvon may have been caught with a weed pipe more than once. Teenagers have been smoking weed for decades. And most go on to become productive people and raise families. Smoking weed doesn’t mean you deserve to be murdered. And it doesn’t make you a thug,which is what you and those other nut jobs are trying to imply. Teenagers smoked weed when i was in school. My nephews smoked weed,which i wasn’t happy about,and they were never thugs. Smoking weed is no worse than drinking alcohol. If it was up to me alcohol would be illegal. Sundance cracker himself might have smoked weed when he was in school. Hardly relevant to being murdered. That jewelery story has been beaten to death. It was never reported stolen and was returned to it’s owner. Trayvon has never been accused or charged with a crime. And he has no violent history. You are saying Trayvon deserved a bullet in his chest because he may have been caught with weed or a weed pipe multiple times. If the worse thing Trayvon ever did was smoke weed a few times i really don’t have a problem with it.The only person he hurt was himself.Including his health because smoking weed can damage the lungs just like cigarettes. And he got in trouble with his parents. Your continued efforts to justify the murder of an unarmed teenager shows how disgusting and contemptible you and others really are. Trayvon never hurt anyone. Whether he smoked weed a few times is irrelevant. Zimmerman on the other hand. Has a long history of hurting people,bullying people,harassing people. Trayvon has no such history. Trayvon was a good kid who made the usual mistakes most teenagers make. What did you do when you were a teenager?

    • racerrodig says:

      From the desk of racerrodig

      Well said……very well said. I’m glad you covered the alleged stolen jewelry lie. I have challenged at least 100 Zidiots to answer why there was never a police report, no stole jewelry reported and so on….oh and burglary tools……what, did Trayvon speed off on his bike ??

      Not 1 Zidiot elected to even answer me…..not 1 !!

      Foolish Zidiots and their preposterous crap.

      • Jun says:

        From The Desk of Jun

        The police even investigated the jewelry and discovered that IT WAS NOT STOLEN and Trayvon kept the jewelry and his story that it belonged to a friend, frankly, CHECKED OUT

        So are we supposed to believe professional investigators with years of training in detective work and forensics, or do we believe the Conservative Tinfoil Hat?

        It’s funny how Trayvon had a screwdriver not used in any crimes and jewelry that was not gotten by any illegal means trumps Fogen’s history, especially since he is proven to have scammed the court and the public for money

        The marijuana thing is child’s play and even George Washington smoked weed

        In fact George Washington grew marijuana

        Their argument against scientific facts of marijuana or evidence of marijuana usage are all ridiculous

        • racerrodig says:

          From the desk of racerrodig

          “So are we supposed to believe professional investigators with years of training in detective work and forensics, or do we believe the Conservative Tinfoil Hat?”

          That’s a tough choice……let me flip a coin. Heads I win, tails you lose kinda thing on that one.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            From the desk of Lonnie Star:

            I’m confused, how is it that Fogen claims to have seen the kid walk at about 30 mph, and still he doesn’t think the kid looks like an athlete, or like he hurrying to get out of the rain? The kid completes, what should have been a one minute and twenty second walk in about 20 seconds, catching up with Fogen 5 seconds after he parks at the clubhouse on a 15 second drive. Help me here, is it at all a possibility that Fogen is telling a lie??? Heaven forfend.

          • racerrodig says:

            From the desk of racerrodig

            Lonnie lets analyze this a minute………………………………….

            Okay, done. I can say with 100% certainty…..FogenPhoole lied then, is lying now and will continue to lie.

            The time line has so many real radical problems I could die of laughter thinking about how he’ll hold up under direct…..and cross.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            From the Desk of Lonnie Starr:

            Poor Phoggenphoole, his lawyers haven’t explained to him that jurors are likely to hold lying against him. Oh well.

            As far as the case goes, MOM knows that GZ can’t stand up under the gentlest of friendly direct examinations, forget about cross. Hannity tossed him a friendly softball, and Phoggenphoole turned a great positive opportunity, into a damning, irrationally catastrophic display of aggravated stupidity. Yet, despite this horrid performance, the man still has supporters, go figure. Watch the man the racists are placing their bets on, in action HERE

            So, we’re not as surprised as we should be when, some racist takes blown up pictures of an innocent child, killed by a racist under color of protecting the neighborhood, out to the shooting range. Hey, for any racist who happen to be reading, would you consider it alright to take pictures of the Sandy Hook victims out to the shooting range? If not, then this is the same thing. This stupid racist Sgt, might just as well have been taking pictures of Columbine victims out to the shooting range, no difference.

          • racerrodig says:

            From the desk of racerrodig

            “Zimmerman’s Aggravated Catastrophic Stupidity!!! ”

            I saw that some time ago and still marvel at how stupid FogenPhoole is. Maybe when his Butt is in the Box he should just flip a coin for answers. Or use a “Magic 8 Ball” It certainly would be just as accurate.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            MOM has got to be losing serious sleep over the very thought of having to put GZ on the witness stand. But if he doesn’t he has no case! But if he does he has no case! All he can do is let GZ take the stand and aggravate the jury to no end.

            The Foreman may say:

            “Your honor, we jurors have to confess, when we finagled our way onto the jury we were died-in-the-wool racists seeking to further the cause of white supremacy. But this, this… what-ever-you-want-to-call-it, has made us all so terribly angry, having tried to play us for incredibly stupid and ignorant fools above and beyond the call, that we have found ourselves unable to acquit him. So. even as much as we hate to find him guilty of harming a black kid, his abject, catastrophic stupidity has aggravated us so badly we cannot possibly let him go free, because if he is a racist he’s forced us to bailout on racism because we don’t want to be like him. We therefore find him guilty as charged with any special circumstance that will allow this court to put him away for so long he will never be seen or heard from again.”

            [ Crash… there’s a crash and a scramble at the council table, guards rushing in, lawyers dashing away] Judge: Sentencing July 24th, bail is revoked the defendant is remanded, court is adjourned.

          • racerrodig says:

            From the desk of racerrodig

            Don’t ya just hate when reality sets in……Must suck to be FogenPhoole.

            That would be a hoot if a few racists sneak onto the jury and realize just how ugly this can be.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Way back when the story first broke about the jewelry I noted that the police never bothered to put a value on the jewelry. As everyone here knows there are two categories of jewelry, real and costume! The costume or “fashion” jewelry is worth next to nothing. I don’t care how much you paid for that polished buffalo horn necklace, once it leaves the store it’s worth diddly squat! Had the jewelry been real, the police would have sought an appraisal. They never bothered because they knew the jewelry was worthless.

          Back in 2012 gold was about 1700/ounce. Dreamicis had a 300 dollar necklace that Burgess stole. That’s like a fifth of an ounce or approx. 6 grams of gold. Don’t tell me that Trayvon had jewelry that appeared to be about and ounce or so of either yellow or white gold and the police didn’t bother to check out what would have been nearly 2 thousand dollars or more of jewelry, it just doesn’t make sense.

          What does make sense is that the police were trying to sweat Trayvon, by making it appear that they had something serious on their hands and that they were going to be able to do all kinds of things because of it. They’d have threatened him with a trip to GITMO if they could.

      • Tzar says:

        From the desk of Tzar

        This from the desk sh*t is hilarious, I am fully on board!

        • fauxmccoy says:

          from the laptop desk on the lap of fauxmccoy
          to tzar’s desk whose owner says

          From the desk of Tzar

          oh! i am so glad that you have a desk now, too!. it is proper and fitting that as students of professor leatherman that we have proper desks and all. 🙂

        • racerrodig says:

          From the desk of racerrodig

          Note to Tzar :

          It’s fun, you’ll love it. It’s that poke in the eye to Robbie the Racist and clan we all wish we could literally do for the racist self serving lies they spew.

          • Tzar says:

            From the desk of Tzar

            Heh heh
            that rhymes LOL

          • racerrodig says:

            From the desk of racerrodig

            I see we all had a great time today……hmmmmmm, what’s his name wasn’t really here, Coincidence……I think not.

          • onlyiamunitron says:

            “I see we all had a great time today…”

            Yeah, there something refreshing about, for a change, not having people lie about what you actually said.

            Of course I’m sure it won’t last.


    • ladystclaire says:

      @racer, if a Trayvon having a screw driver in his book bag is a tool used exclusively for breaking and entering, I would say that *EVERY* household in America, is guilty of owning such a tool just for that purpose. how much more ignorant can these KKKlan members get? they have done nothing but smear and slander this kid and, his family from day one and, it’s not fair or right for anybody to do what these A’holes have been doing for the past year.

      Who ever this Sundance MF is, he and his cohorts will have a day of reckoning coming and, it won’t be pretty either.

      • Xena says:

        FROM: The Mount Olympus Office of Xena

        I used to keep a screw driver in my purse. It was when I drove a 1971 Toyota — had to jam the screw driver into the choke — then it hummed like a baby. 🙂

      • racerrodig says:

        From the desk of racerrodig

        ladystclaire :

        With that thought in mind, please call the police on me as being in the line of work I’m in and have at least 100 screwdrivers, I believe I may be a potential criminal. It’s raining right now and I believe I feel a bit suspicious.

        I know it may sound illogical, but according to The Zidiot Nation Charter, we have no choice.

      • @LadyStClaire

        I carry a screw driver in my truck every day and probably so does these ignorant racist clowns. But they just have to smear this kid b/c they cannot find anything on him. Zimmerman and his supporters were soo counting on Trayvon Martin to be a thug. So now both Zimmerman and his kkk pals have to try endlessly to paint this precious child as an attacker, drug user and criminal. To find out he was an honor student with a bright future, a child loved by his parents, a child whom his teachers stated was always cheerful rocked their world. How dare he NOT be a thug! But yet they donate money to the real lying worthless THUG who has no conscience, no respect for human life and no respect for the law.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        From the Desk of Two Sides:

        I carry one of those bitsy screwdrivers around for glasses. Oh, actually, I have a slightly larger one I carry around in my laptop bag in case I need to do surgery on it. Great tools.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Racer, Xena and SG2, you guys are what this country should be all about and, not the refuse that exist at the doghouse. we need more people like everyone here at this blog site and, the many others who are all about seeing justice be done for Trayvon and his family.

        Those who want to see Fogen get away with murdering an AA child, are just tearing this country down instead of helping to build it up and, make it an even better place to live. they would only be happy, if they could deport every race of people except their own. I’ve got news for them, that’s not going to happen. they don’t own this country and, they never will.

        Every one of you guys are the greatest and, I thank GOD for you all and your support for Trayvon and his family. I say this from the bottom of my heart and, that’s no joke. this is what I really feel for you all here at Professor Leatherman’s site and, this is for them as well. there aren’t many places where bigots haven’t infiltrated to make having a civil discussion about this case impossible.

        • racerrodig says:

          From the desk of racerrodig

          I’m humbled that you mentioned my name !!~ To the hunt I say…..and slap those silly Zidiots as they deserve.

    • Soulcatcher says:

      I think I’d be alittle bit more concerned with the drugs Fogen was on when he murdered trayvon

  45. onlyiamunitron says:

    OT, but if the site is slow to load, it might be the server getting hammered.

    “Some of us have been experiencing attacks on WordPress sites for the last few days, but it’s now beginning to be widely reported that there’s a fairly large brute force attack happening on WordPress users on multiple hosts, including HostGator and LiquidWeb. ‘This attack is well organized and again very, very distributed; we have seen over 90,000 IP addresses involved in this attack.’ CloudFlare has announced that they’re giving all users (free and paid) protection from said attacks with their services. ‘The attacker is brute force attacking the WordPress administrative portals, using the username “admin” and trying thousands of passwords.'”

    That story is here


    with links to the other sites cited.


    • PiranhaMom says:

      @Uni –

      If I open that link, will I get hacked?

      • onlyiamunitron says:

        I’ve been reading and posting at slashdot since 1998 with no ill effects except wondering where my spare time disappeared to.

        : – )


      • IC2Fools says:

        Good catch PiranhaMom! As soon as IC that pic my thought “Ah here we go with this shyte”.

        I said it once and will say it again:

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Interesting. A site I work with has been getting a huge spam attack.

      At any rate, I went to the GZLC site and then to the doc and didn’t have any problem.

  46. Two sides to a story says:

    So Sundance Cracker is revealing his big bombshell. Professor, Xena, Searching Mind and other legal sharpies – need your input. Should be interesting to see if OM suddenly makes some motion or another based on this. It’s looks to me as if this isn’t really anything new – I recall an article a few months back over there ranting about the Miami Dade schools.


    • Bill Taylor says:

      i have attempted to read on that site 5 or 6 times now and cant make it past 5 comments before i simply cant read another word…….the IGNORANCE there is astonishing, but even worse, much of it isnt ignorance it is stupidity.

      for communications clarity i dont see anything negative in the word “ignorant” because it simply means a person hasnt been made aware of something yet, they know nothing about the given thing, and i KNOW that ALL humans are ignorant, just about differing things, none of us comes anywhere near knowing everything.

      crossing the line between ignorance and stupidity is when after a person has been informed they reject factual truth.

      and many of those posters have i am sure been informed that racism is stupid, and they embrace it with open arms!

      • Two sides to a story says:

        They have pretty vivid imaginations over there and spin some interesting stories from their facts.

      • racerrodig says:

        From the desk of racerrodig

        “crossing the line between ignorance and stupidity is when after a person has been informed they reject factual truth.

        and many of those posters have i am sure been informed that racism is stupid, and they embrace it with open arms!”

        That’s part of “The Zidiot Nation Charter” It’s in print, trust me.

      • parrot says:

        Their prejudices distort everything they see like fair goers in a house of mirrors.

    • Xena says:

      @Two sides. IMO, Sundance’s “bombshell” is a dud.

      The attorney for FDLE stated in open court that there is nothing in Trayvon’s school records that is admissible at trial. Why is there nothing in Trayvon’s school records that is admissible at trial? Because nothing in them provides that Trayvon had a propensity towards violence.

      What Sundance confuses and misrepresents, is that school records are police records. Juvenile records are sealed by Florida law. No one has to request that they be sealed — they are by law. Only members of LE can see them and there is some verbiage that is done by order of the court.

      IOWs, if Sundance believes that he has Trayvon’s juvenile records and is publicly posting them, then he is in violation of the law. Best to present them for what they are — school records.

      Nothing he posted proves that GZ killed Trayvon in self-defense. That is the issue at trial, and GZ is the defendant — not Trayvon. Whenever we read the mindset of White Supremacists who think they can make victims the accused, keep in mind who is really on trial, and what they have to prove if they want to be acquitted.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Thank you Xena. It looked like a dud to me too except that all the paper waving was a bit confusing.

        I also notice Sundance promotes many facts that are essentially known to no one at this time: who cast the first blow, if any, what exactly happened that night outside of Fogen putting a bullet through Trayvon’s heart. He essentally repeats Fogen’s story like gospel truth and as we know, there are some truck-sized holes in it.

        • Xena says:

          @Two sides. If not but for the fact that GZ got out of his vehicle to, and did, follow the unarmed 17 year old kid, the two would not have come into physical contact. That means that GZ is the aggressor. He knows it too which is why he lied about getting out of his vehicle and following Trayvon.

          As Lonnie says; TICK, TOCK.

      • racerrodig says:

        From the desk of racerrodig

        Xena :

        Can you tell me who the defendant is again, it seems those pesky Zidiots can’t tell the differance and you do have a way with words.

        • Xena says:

          TO: The Desk of Racerrodig
          FROM: The Mount Olympian Office of Xena

          Can you tell me who the defendant is again, it seems those pesky Zidiots can’t tell the differance and you do have a way with words.

          Your request is appreciated. GZ, aka Thugboat, aka Fogen, aka Butt in a Box, is officially charged by the State of Florida by his birth name George Michael Zimmerman. Having been charged with the felony of Murder in the Second Degree, he is the defendant. His trial is scheduled to begin on June 10, 2013.

          • racerrodig says:

            From the desk of racerrodig

            Xena :

            So it’s not I who is “Dazed and Confused”

            Thank you for the clarification.

            Note to Team Trayvon : Didn’t we have a great time here today without “…you know who….” ruining the conversation.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Xena and Racer, he is also known by some mainly by yours truly (me) as, Buffalo Butt.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Xena, isn’t this *GRAND DRAGON* SD in enough hock for his part of doxing innocent people in his effort to get to the real DD? are they going to get away with their BS? they also put out info about W9 and her family, including where her little daughter went to school.

        Now, these people were inviting a possible kidnapping of this woman’s child. these people (if you can call them that), were breaking the law in every sense of the word and, they should not be allowed to get away with what they did to this woman and her family.

      • kllypyn says:

        The nuthouse has obtained documents of of an investigation as to why trayvon’s suspensions were leaked and documents detail an investigation of the police was lying to make the crime rate at certain schools including the school trayvon went to less than they really were. in a renewed effort to justify his death. they even mention issues we already know about. they are implying the only reason Trayvon wasn’t charged in the jewelery incident is because the police was supposedly ordered not to look into it. And as usual they fail to explain the relevance.

        • PiranhaMom says:


          I wear glasses. Trayvon wore glasses. The right lens falls out of my (relatively new) glasses probably every week. I fix them. I use a tiny screwdriver with a Phillips head on one end and chisel head on the other.

          Trayvon, by his history, was a lot more mechanically inclined than I am. My guess is he was well able to repair his own glasses, too.

          I frequently carry a jeweler’s loupe. That doesn’t mean I plan to heist some diamonds. I just see details better, where needed.

          Like those tiny jewelry screws on my glasses.

          Those idiots ought to start concentrating on significant details of the evidence. Has a single one of them ever explained how Zimmerman could extricate his gun, squashed between his 207lb ass and the grass, and get it into position to shoot Trayvon horizontally through the heart?

          Let me know if you hear it.

          Thanks, Kelly!

    • Jun says:

      The guy is a certified tinfoil hat expert LOL

      I read it, and there’s no evidence of a cover up

      He sounds like those dipshits that claim aliens are taking over Los Angeles or other nonsense

      There’s no evidence of anything being hidden and all that was stated was that the records, if there are any, are confidential to outside parties

      So, he has nothing, yet again, and just spinning conspiracy theories, as if anyone would waste time plotting against Fogen

      Funny how that crackhead idiot has nothing to say, since he has seen Fogen’s records, which were unsealed

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I used to kinda like my tinfoil hats, but if SD wears one, it’s not a good fashion statement any longer! 😀

      • Bill Taylor says:

        tinfoil hats are soooo 10 minutes ago…..the old fiestaware bowls the real brightly colored ones have lead in their paint, they block the brain control waves far better than even heavy duty tin foil.

      • Ty Flair says:

        The treehouse looks at the world as black and white,they are so raciest they refuse to look at the evidence. It’s sad Omara had to go down the road with these raciest people. He better get all the money he can get from these raciest because he has lost all his black client from this show he is putting on. If you ask me Omara is raciest,he is a closet raciest his true color has be blown.

      • Trained Observer says:

        The old orange Fiesta has/had uranium.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          from the laptop desk of fauxmccoy
          trained observer says

          The old orange Fiesta has/had uranium.

          well naturally, how else should a nice slice of yellow cake be served?

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Ty Flair, I have always thought that O’mara was a racist from the very beginning. if he wasn’t, then why would he align himself with such people? I also think Donald West is racist also. some people are very good, at keeping their racist attitudes from surfacing until something like this happens.

        These people don’t have to act in the manner in which they are all because, Fogen is guilty of murdering an AA child. there is no doubt in my mind, that if he had done this to a white kid, they would be the first to seek the dp for Fogen.

        I have seen some pretty nasty and cruel things in the comment sections about Trayvon, his family and AA in general, on sites that one wouldn’t expect such to be tolerated. but, it seems that anything goes as far as this case is concerned. these bigots sniff out all of these sites and, they dig their heels in just to make having a discussion about this case almost impossible. the MF racist are every where with their disgusting filth. the inbred trailer trash.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Two Sides, SD wears a *POINTY* hat for his *POINTY* head and, that’s a fact!

      • Two sides to a story says:

        From the Desk of Two Sides:

        Now he can put one of Bill’s fiesta bowls over it.

      • cielo62 says:

        Jun- sorry. Aliens HAVE taken over LA. That’s why it’s such a weird place.

        Sent from my iPod

    • kllypyn says:

      That bomb shell is nothing. It’s just documentation detailing an internal investigation as to why trayvon’s suspensions were released. And another detailing possible coverup of incidents at Miami Dade schools. The info regarding Trayvon is nothing we haven’t already heard about him being caught with a weed pipe a few times the jewelery incident which they say was covered up which is why trayvon was never arrested or charged with stealing. they have contradicted themselves because if it was covered up we would never have heard about it. it was reported over a year ago the jewelery in question was never reported stolen and was eventually returned to its owner.

      • Xena says:

        @kllypyn. None of the Zidiot BS proves that GZ killed Trayvon in self defense. Stay focused. The Zidiot agenda is to divert attention from GZ and evidence that he murdered Trayvon, to race and disparaging everyone and anyone other than GZ and his family.

  47. jd says:

    So are we to understand that MOM filed a brief asking the court to UNSEAL the terms of the HOA settlement? I may have missed something. What would the defense have to gain from that? Exposure of a “no fault” agreement? I need help understanding this.

    • yes, it’s like a 14 page of boiling bullshit accusing the parents and Ben of coaching DD to incriminate gz all so they could get rich. it’s on his nasty site of course so the zimmerlovers can all trash talk the VICTIMS again.

    • PiranhaMom says:


      Crump’s strong response clearly states that there are more than one payer of the settlement and that they agreed to keep the terms of the settlement confidential.

      So obviously the HOA structure itself (the HOA corporation, whose stakeholders are the individual owners of the 260 condo units) and its members are not paying.

      So … plural payers? Two insurance companies: that of the HOA and that of the management company.

      Sending a HUGE BRAVO to Crump for his spirited, intelligent and moving response!

      • @ Piranhamom, yes, it does sound like there’s at least two entities paying.. I would like to know who tho..just out of curiosity since it would be nice if any of the HOA members who sanctioned that idiots behavior were punished somehow.

        Ben is sorta a GOD-Like figure in my eyes since these recent vicious personal attacks against him! But this bullshit about Tracy and Sybrina is raunchy and disgustingly lowbrow, I can’t believe it! I suppose all the parents in Colorado need to be treated this way too!!!
        and I always said Ben Crump, especially as a civil rights lawyer,can take it, but that family and DD need to be protected so bad. and he’s been on top of it!
        he really laid it down nice and simple like, I like that he repeated over and over “gz profiled, pursued and killed Trayvon”!

      • colin black says:

        This is how it works insurers are like bookmakers.
        An when bookies receive substancial betts on a horse to win.

        So much si if the horse does indeed win.

        They would be unable to srvice the financeial losss..
        So to isure themselfs against this they take the bet . policy.
        An lay that ber of on other boookies so that if the horse wins.
        The debt is spread arpound an absorbed by other bookies.

        Insurance companys do the same thing on a much higher an more devious form of of loading any future claims against them for policy patouts.

        Like the bookies some redistribute the policy amongst four of five different insureresm.
        Its like they are insureing themselfs against loseing big settlements wich is fair enough.

        But thats the scruplious ones an many are unscruplious an they have all sorts of ways toa avoid parting with money to there clients,

        They take your anual payments with glee an avirise.

        But tottaly different scenerio when it becomes nessesery for them to settle a claim.

        The word shysters springs to mind.
        They are even able to sell your policy/transfer it to another company without your aproaval /knowlage…

        So when you come to make your claim your informed that you must contact xyan z As they are now holding your policy.

        Regulation is non exsistant as far as I can gather.

    • wow did any of omar’s motions say anything like —

      ” I hereby certify the forgoing requests have been made in GOOD FAITH and is supported by a sound factual and legal basis pursuant to Florida Rule of Judicial Administration 2.420e “

      • Cercando Luce says:

        Doesn’t ring a bell for me…

      • racerrodig says:

        From the desk of racerrodig

        “… I hereby certify the forgoing requests have been made in GOOD FAITH…..”

        O’ Mara could never state that…..it would make him look like a liar and God knows……….he can’t have that now !!

        • Excuse me Mr Racer! nice desk, at least you HAVE a job! UNLIKE JR!! I tweeted him the other day

          Shannon In Miami ‏@miamidecor 11 Apr
          @robertzimmermanjr I keep telling you; GET A JOB, then a”desk”! I know its confusing, but the #BEGSITE is 4 the lawyers!

          • racerrodig says:

            From the desk of racerrodig

            Actually, I’m self employed…….I just haven’t been able to work up the nerve to ask for a raise….

            It’s an old desk…..but, it’s paid for !!

            Imagine Robbie the Racist applying for a job……

    • Xena says:

      @Shannon Hallelujah! Thanks for the link. One of the best parts is where attorney Crump says the 911 tape has been “cleaned up.” I’ve been saying it!! GZ is heard in the background cursing at Trayvon while Trayvon is screaming. O’Mara is playing to Zidiot supporters in effort to ignore the evidence, but the tape as been “cleaned up” and there are expert witnesses to testify regarding it.

      Hallelujah! Sock it to ya!

      • 911 tape has been “cleaned up.”


      • OMG yes! you have always said that they cleaned it up! I totally missed that little bombshell!!
        and recently I took a half a xanny and listened to it again, but I still cannot hear another voice. but of course I haven’t heard the new *cleaned up* version. i’m so happy!!

      • Rachael says:


        What link are you talking about? Can we hear the “cleaned up” version?

        • Xena says:

          TO; The Desk of Rachael

          FROM: The Olympia Offices of Xena

          What link are you talking about? Can we hear the “cleaned up” version?

          It’s the link to attorney Crump’s motion in opposition to O’Mara’s motion to unseal the settlement agreement. The cleaned up version of the 911 call is not provided. We’ll hear it at trial, and I want to watch GZ’s face as he hears his own voice cursing at Trayvon and the experts identity that as his voice.

      • Rachael says:


        Oh, I found it. Thanks. I just wanted to show off my desk again, my BIG desk, like Jr.’s.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          from the bedside table of fauxmccoy
          to the BIG DESK of Rachel who says

          my BIG desk

          i think i may be suffering desk envy

          • racerrodig says:

            From the desk of racerrodig

            “i think i may be suffering desk envy”

            Would it help if I said my was trash picked, which it was, and that we all love you no matter the size or age of your desk??

          • fauxmccoy says:

            awww sucks, thanks racer!

          • racerrodig says:

            From the desk of racerrodig

            I know you meant “Shucks” ??? because that’s the way you are!!

          • fauxmccoy says:

            oh dear, racer, that was one heckuva typo 🙂

            thank you so much for not castigating nor lambasting me 🙂

          • racerrodig says:

            From the desk of racerrodig

            faux, I would never get on your case, I love you guys & gals far to much. It’s an imperfect world……just look at me for proof.

          • cielo62 says:

            FROM THE CLUTTERED DESK (and cluttered mind) of Cielo62- TO: racer and fauxy- I concur in the affirmative, Mr. Racer. Extreme affection does emanate from all desk occupants. Please accept my hearty contribution as well.

            Most cordially, (hoodies up) Cielo62

            Sent from my iPod

          • racerrodig says:

            From the desk of racerrodig

            c-62 You’re one of the players here !! And doing a great job I must say….

      • You can hear another voice that sounds exactly like GZ right Trayvon yells “help me”. In fact what I hear is GZ saying “help me” and then I hear Trayvon yell “help me” really loud as if to tell the same person to help him instead of helping GZ. I wonder who that person was, because he definately witnessed the shot.

        • Xena says:

          @Eugene Hudson

          Months ago, I wrote about the 911 call capturing GZ’s voice. It was after researching an ABC news reports that Trayvon called 911 within seconds of being killed by GZ, and that GZ’s voice was captured on the call. ABC reported that the FBI had the tape to enhance to see what GZ was saying. ABC later explained that it was the 911 call of an ear witness that captured the background.


          As I explained in that post, when first hearing that 911 call, other than hearing GZ’s NEN call, the public was unfamiliar with his voice. Subsequently, he took the stand at his bond hearing. Then we heard the jailhouse recordings. That was followed by his Hannity interview and the video on his begging site. GZ’s voice is very distinct from the screams and cries for help. He could not be cursing at Trayvon and screaming for help at the same time.

      • Trayvon Martin shooting: Screams, shots heard on 911 call
        March 17th 2012


        The recordings were released after Trayvon’s family spent two hours with city officials, listening to the calls that documented the 17-year-old’s last moments alive.

        “What you hear on that tape is shocking. It’s riveting,” Benjamin Crump, an attorney for Trayvon’s family, said after the group emerged from their meeting with officials late Friday.

        Police had previously refused to release the calls. Zimmerman, a 28-year-old neighborhood crime watch volunteer, has not been arrested and is not charged with a crime. He claimed the Feb. 26 shooting was in self defense.

        In one of the eight calls, screaming can be heard in the background as a woman tries to get help. The call is punctuated by two loud bangs.

        Martin family attorneys said both were gunfire.

        “You hear a shot, a clear shot, then you hear a 17-year-old boy begging for his life,” said Natalie Jackson, one of the family’s attorneys, “Then you hear a second shot.”

        But three witnesses who have made public statements have been clear that they heard a single shot, and Trayvon was hit in the chest by a single bullet.

        In one of the eight calls, screaming can be heard in the background as a woman tries to get help. That call is punctuated by two gunshots.

        “You hear a shot, a clear shot, then you hear a 17-year-old boy begging for his life,” said Natalie Jackson, another family attorney. “Then you hear a second shot.”

        It was the first time that anyone said two shots were fired that night.


        In one of the 911 calls, placed moments later, a man reports that “they’re wrestling right in the back of my porch. There’s a black guy down. It looks like he’s been shot and he’s dead.”

        Family members would not comment after listening to the tapes.

        “They are overwhelmed by grief at what they heard this evening,” Crump said. “The last seconds of his life were in absolute fear.”

        The boy’s mother could only listen to about half of the recordings, Crump said. His father broke down near the end, Crump said, “and cried like a baby.”

    • racerrodig says:

      From the desk of racerrodig

      That actually looks like real Attorneys wrote it, unlike the childish garbage by the one known as Moron O’ Mara.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I’m getting a blank page, but maybe the server is overwhelmed at the moment.

    • ic2fools says:

      No I didn’t read this, thank shannoninmiami!

    • ic2fools says:

      Ya’ll see it? Opposition to Motion to Unseal from Mr. Crump in response to O’mara, sounds like opposing counsel too me.

      Ha, Mr. Crump set the bait and Omar fell for it, hook line and sinker!!!!

      • LOL I wonder if omar thinks this little trick was worth the $2000 they made off it? what a dummy. now the court will have another excuse to blast and deny ANOTHER motion in front of GOD and EVERYBODY watching live on TV! LMAOOOOO

        what else will they do for a few bucks! and pimping out MAMA Z looks real classy too !LOLO #EPIC #FAIL

  48. Malisha says:

    Fogen is the story of someone who has ONLY privilege going for him, and then when the privilege runs out, he’s fuming mad and the smoke is pouring out his ears because he lost his privilege. That is so childish. When my kid was little, he would play with all the neighbor children. One of them was very bossy and abusive if my kid was at HIS house. When they kids were all in the park together, his kid tried to be bossy and abusive but it didn’t work because they’d just walk away from him and play with someone else. But when that same kid came over to my house, there were always lots of kids because I did day-care. He’d try to be bossy and abusive and I wouldn’t let him and neither would the other kids because they knew the rules; then he’d have a tantrum!

    Fogen got to push people around plenty in his life. But then, there started to be people pushing back. I think probably someone in Virginia really got on his case and he left. Then in Florida he was pushing people around and began to lose some battles and he got fired, got threatened with eviction, got troubles of this and that sort. On 2/26/2012 he was probably in a situation where he couldn’t see the reality of his recent losses of privilege being part of a trend. He was becoming someone who was just like everybody else who wasn’t going to be the “privileged character” any more, who had to toe the line like the next guy, produce like the next guy, take his lumps like the next guy. He didn’t get it. So he killed somebody.

    Then he really thought his privilege was going to carry him past the long arm of the law.

    Think again, [as LLMPapa would add] GENIUS!

    • racerrodig says:

      From the desk of racerrodig

      I firmly believe that something pretty substantial happened in VA. Maybe he did run over one of those unsuspecting Mexicans on the sidewalk, so to speak. My P. I. friend is trying to find out as a matter of curiosity. He’s betting the farm on it in fact, and I’d never bet against him. I read somewhere that Fogen stayed with Wolfinger for a time when he first got to FL. as Papi & Mami got there after him.

      • Trained Observer says:

        From the half/cut whiskey barrel of T.O

        Wouldn’t doubt it, racer. Hope your P.I. pal turns something up. BTW, I think it’s disgusting that Wolfinger took as long as he did to recuse himself from a case where clearly he had a conflict of interest from the get-go. Even though he’s now out of office, there ought to be bar sanctions for that ethical breach.

        • racerrodig says:

          From the desk of racerrodig

          I’m thinking there is something there. Fogen moved before the rest of family……all alone ??

  49. colin black says:

    rayvenwolf says:

    April 11, 2013 at 4:40 pm

    Bingo. If anything the moment word got around, and it always does, that he called the cops on his landlord, that should have been a 60ft tall neon sign that he was trouble and would continue to be such. I mean really? That takes serious brass to say not only am I not giving you the money I owe, but I’m also going to call the cops.

    GZ presumably was at his last job at the time so where was all that money going?
    He had an in with local L E or he indicated he did.
    This was him Modis Operandi be sides calling L E on anyone Black he didnt like the look of ie all of them.

    He called LE on anyone he perceived as threating or nuisance or inconveinanceing him.
    A guy works bar at his non grad party wants paid probaby in cash as opossed rubber check.An foggagge calls LE his buddie cos he can.
    That would intimidate most people.Like the land lord foggagge called LE this person is harraseing me I want him of his property .That he is going to lose as Im squatting an freeloading an stealing money in the form of rent.From this guys pocket.

    And the poloce show up an side with foggagge.
    The poor landlord has got to drive of thinking W T F just happened.

    He after all campagned an activated for the the S P D Cheif of Police to get the job B Lee.An aggited against the incumbant Cheif to lose his job an his penssion

    Nobody has the gall to treat LE as there private body gaurds/mussle unless they have an in with some top brass in the force.
    This idiot probably had a garanteed job an uniform waiting if only he could get a passing grade.
    Wich seemed beyond his capabilites listening to foggage an his actions it seems special ed was more his level as opposed to collage.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      colin black says

      Nobody has the gall to treat LE as there private body gaurds/mussle unless they have an in with some top brass in the force.

      there are many clues to be found that the defendant may have been a narc, or police informant, if you will. this is just one of the clues.

  50. colin black says:

    Gladys thinks this song was meant litterlery for her son giveing him permision to play the secret agent enforcer in his deluded mind.
    An shoot any Black person Or Mexican at a pinch straight through the heart.

  51. willisnewton says:

    Keep in mind that in addition to describing that Trayvon was afraid of the “creepy guy in the car” that W8, “Dee Dee” also seems to credibly describe the car-to-pedestrian chase that is a very damning element of the case against GZ. This man pursued the teen closely with his motor vehicle causing the youth to run off the motorway, yet the man simply parked, by his own admission on the wrong side of the road facing the wrong way (this “which way was he facing” remains unproven and disputable) and then exited the vehicle to pursue on foot, which he readily admitted to as the incident was happening. So the foot pursuit was only AFTER a vehicular pursuit, one the defendant lied about but will be proven in court to have occurred. It is this initial pursuit that will be so damning to the defendant’s false narrative, and this IMO is why the defense wants so badly to impeach the credibility of W8.

    It’s the INITIAL chase from near the mail kiosk towards the cut thru that GZ went to great lengths to obscure, omit and obfuscate by telling obvious lies to the SPD investigators, even going so far as to mark a map in his own handwriting showing his most likely position before quickly crossing it out while inventing an impossible scenario of the teen “doubling back” (an action he himself performed during said car to pedestrian chase) to circle his car, falsely ascribing the aggression to the unarmed teen.

    This PATTERN of lies – what George did, he blames on the kid, and when in doubt, George leaves it out – can and should be shown to the jury to help explain what likely happened in the “missing minutes” that led up to the physical struggle and intentional shooting death of an unarmed minor.

    Crump if fighting to maintain the credibility of a key witness using the means at his disposal to keep out false attacks on her character and his own because IMO she is able to support the evidence of a car-to-pedestrian chase that proves the bad intent of the defendant – the “profiled and pursued” aspect of the prosecution’s case. However it’s likely the prosecution can prove this car-to-pedestrian chase took place even without the supporting testimony of W8, simply by explaining the deductive reasoning that follows if you ask the vital question, where was GZ and where was Trayvon when GZ had the following exchange:

    Q:He’s by the clubhouse now?
    A: Yeah, now he’s coming towards me.

    The only POSSIBLE place where the timing of a walking human and a car fits the next minute or so of the recording is to place the car at the first bend of TTL, likely facing the mail kiosk,and then to MOVE the car in concert with the pedestrian as he heads to the second bend, and begins to run when chased by the car.

    George himself admits to moving the car during the call, but obfuscates his initial position in an obvious lie in order to omit the car to pedestrian chase. Again, Dee Dee ear-witnessed some of this – their call dropped right about the moment Trayvon ran off the roadway, and she called him back, but the movements and actions can be proven with or without her testimony.

    • ay2z says:

      Fogen was guaranteed to lose Trayvon at the Taaffe corner, had he driven ahead, the dog-leg bend in the road would have not allowed him to key an eye on the direction of travel of his suspect. (Note fogen adds a car backing out, to delay his forward travel along the road, but that isn’t enough to explain him driving ahead of Trayvon).

      This is even more of an impossibility if Trayvon had encountered fogen in the Colonial complex, and as W8 said, Trayvon wasn’t going to run (ie cause him to be chased) but would walk fast, and also that he was going to take a short cut so the guy couldn’t follow. That short cut could have been to cut through at Taaffee’s corner and if Fogen drove over and picked Trayvon up to ‘surveil’ at that point, Trayvon must have been paniced facing that car again when he was in his home complex.

      Given the chance to lose the car again, he would have taken another route over to the other side of he complex, that’s just self-defense that he already said he was doing.

      That must have been terrifying.

      And remember what fogen told Irwin when he asked:

      Irwin: “Why did you try to maintain such close proximity to him?”

      Fogen: “To tell the police where he….. what direction he was headed in.”

      “Where he…???” Why would he say ‘where he [was going] , strange, did Fogen know exactly where this child was headed and when he needed to cut him off?

      If he really thought he was heading out the back entrance to the complex, why would he not drive over to the back gate entrance and wait there to catch the bad guy at the locked gate?

      Something funny about ‘where he’ abruptly changed to ” what direction” he was headed in.

      • Xena says:


        Fogen was guaranteed to lose Trayvon at the Taaffe corner, had he driven ahead, …

        EXACTLY! Had Trayvon entered that gated community by Taaffe’s with intent on committing a crime, and seeing that he was spotted, he would have turned around and walked out the same way he entered rather than walking towards GZ.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Because we’re so advanced today than we were way back when we started, we forget that during the reenactment, we learned, not only how much time GZ had to spend at FT’s to have observed the actions he recounted there. But we also forget that GZ claims that, when he drove over and parked at the clubhouse, no sooner than he parked there, here comes Trayvon walking towards him.

          When one looks at the map and measures the distances involved, one discovers that while its a 15 second drive for GZ, from FT’s place to the clubhouse where he parked, it’s a 1 minute 20 second walk for Trayvon. So, for Trayvon to just walk up, within 5 seconds of GZ parking there as he says, Trayvon has to walk at somewhere near 20 to 30 mph. That’s some pretty darn fast walking wouldn’t you say? Begs the question why GZ didn’t think Trayvon wasn’t an athlete eh? 😆

          • Xena says:

            @Lonnie Starr

            Begs the question why GZ didn’t think Trayvon wasn’t an athlete eh? 😆

            I wonder how many aspirins and antacids O’Mara has taken while watching the clubhouse videos? He won’t know what the State knows about them until they present their expert at trial, yet no expert the defense hires will be able to see those videos to agree with GZ’s story.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            The work of analyzing those cctv’s is tedious and boring. It take great dedication because it took Tchoupi. Whonoze and Amsterdam (I think) a week of 16 hour days to accomplish. I was on the bcclist when they were doing the work. IIRC they treated us to a synopsis of just how tedious the work was, they had to go back and forth over 30 hours of video to ascertain the time and tease out other events. So the work was no joke.

            I doubt MOM is going to find experts of similar dedication, especially with what little money he has budgeted. 3 to 6 thousand dollars isn’t going to buy 7 16 hour days for sure, less the tedium of recursively viewing 30 hours of videos. They’ll probably take his money and hand him renamed copies of tchoupi’s work.

          • Xena says:

            @Lonnie Starr. Before I saw the work of who I term “The Whonoze crew,” I saw Trent Sawyer’s videos. It helped to be able to see the lighting changes, distinguishing headlights, side lights on vehicles, etc. Trent was the first to realize that the CCTV vids were off by 20 minutes. Once I became accustomed to what I was seeing, the video by the Whonoze crew was easily understandable and outstanding.

            They’ll probably take his money and hand him renamed copies of tchoupi’s work.

            The only question that O’Mara has in GZ’s defense is, “Are you for certain that the car lights in the videos are that of the defendant’s?” Then on cross, BDLR has the question, “To the best of your knowledge, were there any other vehicles on those streets during the time that the defendant called NEN?”

      • Two sides to a story says:

        That’s obvious. He wouldn’t “escape” by heading toward the back gate.

      • ay2z says:

        Good point, I was thinking of Trayvon only as getting home, not as a criminal scenario, and of course, that’s what fogen profiled him as, a criminal.

        But whichever way, fogen’s own words mean he was not about to loose sight of him, following, not leading, and staying at close proximity once he was on his home NW turf.Have to wonder,

        Have to wonder though, if fogen knew where Trayvon was staying, and new where he would be headed once he had fogen on his tail.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        It doesn’t fit time wise, and it doesn’t fit what can be seen in the clubhouse video’s.

        We have no evidence about Trayvon’s path from the 7 eleven to RATL, but unless GZ never was on TTL and another person was trolling the mail area at RATL at the time of the nen call,
        Trayvon was at the mail area, and GZ was stalking and following him from the mail area towards the cut-through at the time of the nen call.

      • racerrodig says:

        “Something funny about ‘where he’ abruptly changed to ” what direction” he was headed in.”

        He has so many Freudian slips, he’s Freudian Joke. His reenactment has several as do his interviews. His slip of my wife and I, says something as well.

        The more time goes on and the more one thinks about this, it does look like he knew exactly where Trayvon was going.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        “My wife..” the dufus probably thought of himself as a future Columbo.

    • Rachael says:

      That is one thing for certain that can be said of GZ, he has predictable patterns of behavior. Lots of them. Lying, leaving things out, saying Trayvon said/did what was really him, following people, hurting people physically and emotionally, and who knows what the hell else.

  52. ay2z says:

    ABC is the only major media organization to orovide a Z mother letter along with the reply discussion of the lawyers for Trayvon’s parents.

    Google search for past week under “Trayvon Martin”, shows all defense promo articles come up front and center, even though the defense nor client was used to describe the search..

  53. ay2z says:

    Yes, and Scott who filed the complaint, said he drives his BMW, no pull-overs in 13 years, but when he drove an older car, he was pulled over for a licence plate light that wasn’t out.

    Good they got this cop off the road..

  54. Windermere officer arrested in racial profiling probe


    A Windermere police officer has been arrested related to a racial profiling investigation and another officer has been suspended without pay pending an internal investigation, Windermere Chief David Ogden said.

    Windermere Police Officer Jason Darnell was arrested on felony charges of official misconduct and threatening a public servant during an investigation of race-based profiling, authorities reported this morning.

    Police say they have four victims who were stopped in racially biased traffic stops within Windermere town limits. All were minority motorists and all were stopped but never ticketed or arrested, authorities said. They would not give details about the investigation, which is ongoing.

    But Ogden and Florida Department of Law Enforcement officials said they suspect there might be other victims who have not come forward.

    “I want the residents of Windermere to know this ends practices that are unacceptable and will not be tolerated under any circumstances,” Ogden said.

    • Rachael says:


    • Bill Taylor says:

      racial profiling was started with the war on drugs and has been used ever since……that is why the VAST majority of drug users AND dealers are WHITE, but the far and away vast majority in prison for those things are black!

      the police have targeted blacks for decades, and it continues today!

      • lurker says:

        Make that the vast majority who are arrested and tried. And it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. The more police stop black people on the assumption that they are likely to be involved with drugs, the more the official data will bear out that drug involvement is disproportionately black.

        I have tried to explain that to a few self-proclaimed “non-racists” (I’m just following the data!) over time. They don’t seem to be able to get it.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        bill taylor says

        racial profiling was started with the war on drugs and has been used ever since……that is why the VAST majority of drug users AND dealers are WHITE, but the far and away vast majority in prison for those things are black!

        bill, i do my best to leave politics at the door when i come here, but i do remember that you are one of our few resident conservatives.

        i know your statement above to be true, not because of my race, but because of my education and study of white privilege. in my experience, i find few conservatives who do know the truth behind incarceration statistics. we likely both know that minorities have a disproportional access to legal remedy than do most whites, largely due to a variety of social situations which keep minorities earning power on the lower end of the spectrum.

        so many of other sites that discuss this case have racists (a large percent of them conservative) coming out of the woodwork to use the ‘black kid is thug because look at incarceration rates’ argument, which i am sure you would have to disagree.

        all i ask is that you scream it loud and proud among your conservative brethren, please. the situation, on the whole, socially speaking, is not likely to improve any time soon, until as a society we can all acknowledge the simple, basic truth you stated above, which distilled, affirms that institutional racism is alive and well in this country.

      • Bill Taylor says:

        LOL, i gotta tell the truth, conservatives dont get along with me much at all, because i deal in reality and truth, NOT from the left or right “side” i side with truth and accurate information, and MANY conservatives dont like that at all.

        for me on a liberal forum i get called all sorts of names for being conservative, but on the conservative forums they would bet money i am a flaming liberal.

        i am a TRUE “liberal” which is also what conservatives are supposed to be = a person that favors personal LIBERTY.

      • Ty Flair says:

        @Bill Taylor I would of never thought you was a conservative by your post,great to see there are good people on the other side.

      • Soulcatcher says:

        @Bill Taylor,
        Here is an article I read in the SNR when I lived in Sacramento. Exactly what you said, the last sentence of the article says it all. “I should have avoided prison because I was lucky, not because I was white.” A good read for all.


      • Jun says:

        Across 110th street,
        the pusher wont let the junkie go free…

        Anyways, I think you should take a look at prison

        It’s actually fairly multicultural with criminals of all backgrounds

        Probably the only racial group with not a lot of people in prison are Asians, but there are still Asians in prison, mainly for fraud or gangster stuff

      • bettykath says:

        jun, Yes, the prisons are multi-cultural, but not in the same proportions as the population as a whole. Incarceration rates for Blacks and Latinos are much higher for whites.

      • bettykath says:

        “much higher for whites.” should be “much higher than for whites”.

    • looneydoone says:

      Seems jr has an alias….Robert J Vimmerman

      • Xena says:

        Just like his brother … 🙂

      • looneydoone says:

        from the ocean view, bird’s eye maple desk of looneydoone
        jr really does use the alias Robert J Vimmerman

        • Xena says:


          from the ocean view, bird’s eye maple desk of looneydoone jr really does use the alias Robert J Vimmerman

          Yeah — he probably didn’t want to be associated with his family’s name. There are skeletons in that closet — a graveyard worth.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Hooray… I see this as the power of the internet at work. It’s been a long time pounding “the pavement of the pavilions of the minds”, but doing so is finally bearing fruit. The internet is flooding light into the “corners” of life, in those obscure places, where vast public attention would never reach. It is the impact we’re having as an almost irresistible force in these areas, that are waking up the authorities to the need to reel in and monitor the once “dark corners” of their jurisdictions. Before some egregious incident darkly, exposes them to the instabilities that can be caused by adverse public opinion.

    • cielo62 says:

      Wait! This story is bound to get Aussie in a twist! Forget that these cops were investigated by their own department. Forget that there are multiple witnesses; they might have an agenda to smear these two wonderful cops. Totally ignore if the cops admit to being aware of and taking into account the color of the drivers skin; that’s not relevant. There’s just no Evidence! (Yeah, right)

      Sent from my iPod

  55. LeaNder says:

    Nothing to add really, sorry if someone already posted the link or the text:

    April 11, 2013

    Statement from Trayvon Martin’s Family and their Attorneys

    One year ago today, the State of Florida decided that there was evidence to charge George Zimmerman for second-degree murder for profiling, pursuing, and killing our unarmed teenage son. The facts of this case are simple and straightforward. We are confident that a jury following the overwhelming evidence against George Zimmerman will hold him accountable for killing our son, Trayvon Martin.

    For the Zimmerman family to allege that the justice system doesn’t work, simply because they are unhappy their son was arrested in the first place, is disingenuous and disrespectful to the very system that is currently affording him every available opportunity to defend himself. The arrest of an admitted killer is not a violation of due process, it is due process. Most will agree that no one has been given greater consideration by the justice system for killing an unarmed child, than George Zimmerman.

    We continue to pray that our son’s death will serve as a catalyst in preventing other senseless acts of gun violence.

    I by the way would defend every American against the image of America projected in the letter of Grace Zimmerman. It is simply a much too big country to consist only of these type of self-proclaimed upright and religious Americans, which one could call more easily bigots. They exist everywhere. One of the basics of America are equal rights, and just as her son has them, Trayvon had them too. And now his family has every right to demand justice for Trayvon. It’s NOT American to avoid responsibility for your actions. At least I have never heard about the American avoidance of responsibility myth. Maybe Grace can elaborate, what makes that specifically American?

    • ay2z says:

      Bears repeating, LeaNider. Hope we can find a pdf version to link the whole letter in original form here.

      • LeaNder says:

        That’s an easy one, ay2z. I have this link in my TM folder. Makes sense to check it occasionally during these type of events.

      • ay2z says:


        April 11, 2013

        Statement from Trayvon Martin’s Family and their Attorneys

        One year ago today, the State of Florida decided that there was evidence to charge George Zimmerman for second-degree murder for profiling, pursuing, and killing our unarmed teenage son. The facts of this case are simple and straightforward. We are confident that a jury following the overwhelming evidence against George Zimmerman will hold him accountable for killing our son, Trayvon Martin.

        For the Zimmerman family to allege that the justice system doesn’t work, simply because they are unhappy their son was arrested in the first place, is disingenuous and disrespectful to the very system that is currently affording him every available opportunity