The petition for a writ of certiorari is ridiculous

Saturday, April 6, 2013

I write today about the defendant’s petition for a writ of certiorari.

I believe it is ridiculous and I predict that the Court of Appeals will deny it summarily. At least, I would, if I were a judge on the Court of Appeals.

The first thing that struck me when I read the petition was the flagrant false statement that a witness saw Trayvon straddling the defendant and hitting him repeatedly. W6 (John) retracted that statement while under oath. Therefore, it was a lie. Nevertheless, the defense continues to rely on it and I am sick and tired of it.

I would sanction the defense counsel for misrepresenting the facts to the court.

Second, Benjamin Crump recorded the Dee Dee interview in front of witnesses whom defense counsel can interview and should interview before the subject of interviewing him even comes up.

Finally, I am not impressed with any of the defense team’s arguments.

Benjamin Crump did not kill Trayvon Martin.

He did not invent Dee Dee.

The phone records establish that someone was talking to Trayvon when he was attacked and the connection was broken. We now know that someone was Dee Dee.

Attempting to depict him as a malicious wrongdoer encouraging Dee Dee to lie is not supported by any evidence. It is wild speculation from defense counsel’s support group of delusional racist internet trolls. More smoke and mirrors from a defendant who has no defense.

Trial starts June 10th.

Time to get it on and stop with the diversions.

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250 Responses to The petition for a writ of certiorari is ridiculous

  1. Art says:

    Hi there, I read your new stuff daily. Your humoristic style is awesome, keep doing what you’re doing!

  2. Judy75201 says:

    At the bottom of page 30 and top of page 31 of the appendix to the petition for writ, Witness 6 discusses the events leading up to Trayvon’s death in terms of how loud the sounds were, i.e., farther away then nearer. George lied (sorry for the understatement).

    Click to access appendix.pdf

  3. I am hoping to find out today if Mark O’Mara played any role in advising the HOA to settle the wrongful-death lawsuit filed by Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton.

    Sundance Cracker claims that he did.

    Since Benjamin Crump represents Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton that would certainly qualify him as opposing counsel for purposes of the silly deposition issue.

    More importantly, he would have a conflict of interest because he would be in possession of inside information obtained from his client, plus all of the discovery that has not been released to the public, and advising the HOA to settle before the criminal trial.

    That’s the equivalent of saying:

    GZ’s self-defense claim isn’t going to fly. He’s going to be convicted of murder 2, so you better cut your losses to a minimum by settling now.

    If true, that’s a conflict of interest and a major violation of a lawyer’s obligation to maintain client confidentiality.

    He should be disbarred, if he did that.

    • Trained Observer says:

      MOM may be a DUI and divorce guy in actuality, and only a criminal defense czar inhis dreams, but how could he make such a blatant error as to be advising the HOA one way or the other in regards Fogen’s case? A major screw-up to be sure, if he even came close to doing that.

  4. jo says:

    hmm another question, is Chris Serino a witness for the prosecution or the defense? He seemed to think GZ should have been charged but the guy representing him (Baez) thinks the prosecutions case is weak. Seems strange to me that his lawyer would say that if Serino himself thought GZ’s story was dodgy.

  5. Nef05 says:

    The first thing that struck me when I read the petition was the flagrant false statement that a witness saw Trayvon straddling the defendant and hitting him repeatedly. W6 (John) retracted that statement while under oath. Therefore, it was a lie. Nevertheless, the defense continues to rely on it and I am sick and tired of it.

    I would sanction the defense counsel for misrepresenting the facts to the court.

    Great article, Prof. I agree. O’Mara has been saying this since, at least, the second bond hearing when he put on that mini-trial for the media; and he hasn’t stopped since. It always bothered me that BDLR never challenged him on it, when he said it in open court, or in a motion. Perhaps he will, in his response to the writ, should he submit one if 5DCA takes this up. It’s certainly past time that O’Mara learn he cannot misrepresent (read: outright lie) to the court.

    *Since my Alma Mater won their Final Four game to advance to Monday night’s championship game, I am honor bound to add the following:

    HAIL! GO BLUE!!!

  6. ay2z says:

    Van Jones, “…it took this case, Trayvon Martin…. for the president of the USA to say the obvious’.

    • #1. i love van jones, and it has nothing to do with his stunning good looks either!
      #2. i’ve only recently seen, in passing a reference to this organization/movement.
      #3. i don’t know what this talk was about and didn’t understand what this clip was pointing out, probably because i don’t know anything don’t know the story of this Harvard professor.
      #4. thanks for sharing it. i can’t wait to watch the whole thing!

    • LeaNder says:

      Interesting man. I agree with Shannon, very good looking, but also a very active person.

      Shannon, I heard about the story around the black Harvard professor. I think they assumed he was a burglar, could that have something to do with his color? 😉

    • LeaNder says:

      Shannon, this seems to be the complete lecture. Part of a conference: Black Males Re-imagined.

      Now that is interesting funded by Soros, that should tell the extreme right camp all they need to know. ;)No good can come from there.

      Van Jones has also been sponsored by the Ford Foundation, and seems to belong to the type people they should support, considering Ford’s history. A fact which has a Breitbart related blog or site “foaming”. Sorry, no link left. I don’t know much about that Breithart guy, and I am not sure if I need to know more about him, now that he is a dead hero of the right.

      • LeaNder says:

        Heh!!!! I wondered about the extend the Trayvon Martin story, since it was an even bigger news event in 2012 than even the election, could in fact have influenced the election.

        He tells us there was indeed something called a “hoodie vote”.campaign.

  7. Jun says:

    I just watched Mystery Detectives on HLN

    And they traced a suspects cellphone call, as to where he made the call from

    LOL Fogen is in trouble man

  8. Cercando Luce says:

    The news of this settlement is on Yahoo, and it is quite dismaying to read hundreds of readers’ comments that indicate that a desultory reader of news has absorbed that GZ suffered a beating. Almost no one mentions any evidence released. And racial issues are the case’s most salient feature.
    I HOPE voir dire yields a competent jury, and HOPE the prosecution’s presentation conveys the depth of the crime so that even the most prejudiced racist would vote to convict, to keep our society a safe place for all.

    • Jun says:

      It’s probably Joonyah or his gang members with 3000 profiles each

      Its gonna all come out at trial

      Trolls in comments sections do not mean much to anything and can easily be traced

      • Cercando Luce says:

        Oops. thanks. I started to think I was looking at a population sample. At least, now I hope so.

      • Jun says:

        I found one Fogen gang member troll with 100 different profiles

        There’s no point in listening to internet trolls

      • Jun

        They do the same way at the OS…troll with multiple profiles and they’re all from the CTH.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        What I find amusing is that these trolls with multiple accounts think everyone does that and will accuse you of being someone else, even if you post consistently with one identity or even openly with your own name or a handle that’s traceable online! Those folks are really up to no good and I don’t know what their deal is . . .

    • Xena says:


      The news of this settlement is on Yahoo…

      Yahoo comments are taken over by White Supremacists — about 2 of them who admitted having about 30 different handles/accounts. They use the multiple accounts to thumbs down comments they dislike, and thumbs up their own comments so that they cannot be hidden.

      No matter what the subject of the article is, if it’s about GZ’s case, they turn it into a KKK meeting with burning crosses, racial slurs, and all.

      From time to time when I get the chance, I screen shot the comments and email them to advertisers asking if they want their product or service advertised on a page filled with hate-speech because Yahoo fails to moderate. I’ve noticed that now, when you click a comment for abuse, there is faster action when previously nothing resulted from it.

      • ladystclaire says:

        Why would any of these sites permit that kind of racial hatred to be on their sites? for them to do so, tells me that this is how they themselves feel about this case and other things such as this. what is the point of HP and OS having so called guidelines if they are going to permit such? the same goes for YouTube. they all permit hate speech and, they don’t care whose feelings are hurt.

        It really hurts me to read some of the things that these people are allowed to post about Trayvon and his family, as well as AA in general. they have even gone as far as to say, that AA should be deported. in the words of Barack Obama, if you are not a Native American, then you were brought here from some where else. in other words, this wasn’t the home country of your forefathers any more than any other race of people.

        • Xena says:


          Why would any of these sites permit that kind of racial hatred to be on their sites?

          They don’t care about content. They care about the number of comments. The more “hits” and “comments” the more they can pitch to potential advertisers what percentage of visitors see their advertisements and then by the one percent rule, how many visitors will buy their product or service.

      • Rachael says:

        That’s a good idea. I think that will be my new project. Taking screen shots of this crap and writing to the papers and their advertisers. This should just not be allowed. Free speech is NOT hate speech!!~!

    • @ Cercando Luce,

      i know how you feel, I’ve gotten depressed when I’ve seen that too. it’s really been a slap in the face to hear the trash that’s been written and said about Tray and family, the black hatred. it’s so disturbing. and it has changed my life.

      i get paranoid and suspicious of everyone! I’ve cut off a family member because they said something i found offensive and racist ( not even about this case, but about Michelle Obama ) and i’ve been in an argument with someone I’ve known and respected for years because I perceived their opinion about this case as racist…and i know I have over reacted at times.
      but sometimes i just can’t tell what’s racist or what anymore!

      but this case has defiantly changed me, for better or worse, i don’t know yet.

  9. **blink* *blink*

    The was NO CRIME COMMITTED. There was NO “wrongful death”. TM in a “black rage” attacked George “playing the knock-out game”. Why the “rush to settle”? The HOA had NO REASON TO PAY. Only AFTER George was “found guilty” – would there be ANY HOA ISSUE. I just do not understand the “why” of this $1,000,000. Do you? Can you explain it?

    • Malisha says:

      Duh… let me try to explain this … HOA is very foolish and failed to read up at the Outhouse about how strong their case would have been if only they hadn’t “rushed to judgment.” Also, they had a spare million and couldn’t figure out what to do with it so they figured they’d donate it to some “Scheme Team” folks just so they could help convict an innocent man of a crime that had not been committed.

      Is that clear?

    • Jun says:


      What the hell is black rage and the knockout game?

      • Rachael says:

        Ooooh, you haven’t been following at the outhouse have you. They post stories about the knockout game every day and show videos and somehow tie it all into Trayvon. If they did it, then he did too. Sick freaks they are over there.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Most of the cases of the knockout game have happened in St. Louis.

  10. jo says:

    the fact that O’Mara is trying absolutely every friggen trick in the book to stall and blame makes it obvious he is not confident in his case. If he was he would be full steam ahead, ready for action. So obvious.

    Now i know i ask a lot of questions but please bare with me, i’m a single mum of 2 under school age and also at uni myself so while my heart is very much involved i sometimes get a little behind and don’t know/remember some of the details.

    So GZ’s phone records are part of the evidence handed over to O’Mara but they haven’t been made public, is that correct?

    Is it the defense that don’t want them made public? Just wondering why they are so desperate to throw everyone else under the bus and casting out magical illusions to dodge the guts of the case and just get the fuck on with already….maybe the phone records are very incriminating and that is why they are so desperate.

    speaking of phone records…

    In Australia recently a woman went missing on her way home from a bar, a short walk to her home. It was a really big deal, the police had the guy who killed her within a week on a seemingly small amount of evidence but now that the court process started we are becoming privy to all the info they had and how they caught the guy. They were pretty amazing, only releasing what they had to to get witnesses to come forward etc. They had a lot of cctv footage and tracked her movements for a lot of the way home, which also showed that she had been approached by a man in a blue hoodie, but they also had footage of this man running after her that the never released until now. But they actually caught him because they tracked her cell phone gps. They didn’t need her phone to do this. They knew that she had been in the area she went missing until nearly 4.30 am, then they knew where the phone travelled and it went through a toll station at a certain time so they got all the licence plates that went through the station at that time….tracked their cell phones and found one that matched….then they raided his house and found her phone card etc. But it’s just so amazing that they could do all that without even having his phone and before even speaking to him. Maybe privacy laws are different in the US but it is amazing how they used both phones (that weren’t even in their possession) to catch this killer.

    Court cases are completely different too. It is very private. As soon as the guy was caught there was a wall of silence. Social media was carefully monitored and even censored (by the host) so as not to taint the jury pool or give the defense any reason that they can not receive a fair trial. The media goes quiet and would be in serious trouble if they released info to the public. So so different to Florida. We don’t find out ANYTHING until it goes to trial (except before the crime is solved the police release some information that may help solve it, but keep a lot out of the media). Past crimes are suppressed also so as not to taint the outcome of the trial, but once a verdict is in the judge is able to take past crimes into consideration when sentencing. And jury members are anonymous and definitely NOT allowed to talk to media and even encouraged not to discuss anything that went on in the jury room at all, because they want jurors to feel safe enough to do their job without fear of persecution.

    Anyway, it doesn’t have anything to do with Trayvons death but it shows how different the US and Australia’s legal systems are. .

    • fauxmccoy says:

      jo — you have the details of the phone records correct, to the best of my knowledge. the australian missing woman case you described is fascinating though. thank you for sharing that, it gives me some hope that the phone records in this case are valuable to the prosecution and damning to the defense.

      florida is definitely unique with their open records laws, i cannot think of any other state that makes discovery so widely available to the public. as much as it may be interesting or even fun in a challenging way to go through it all, i certainly question the wisdom of this procedure.

      anyway, i appreciate your comments, thanks.

      • jo says:

        thanks fauxy, it was a really interesting and sad case, and prompted peaceful marches to demand womens rights to walk home in safety….the pig just pleaded guilty.

        Actually there are a few parallels with Trayvons case now that i think about it. An innocent person doing no wrong walking home at night. A creep watching her and then following her and catching up, a brief conversation and then an attack in an alley (he fought with his g/f and went out to take it out on another woman). She had just spoken to her brother on the phone and said she was worried, he was going to call her back but she didn’t answer. Her husband texted her to see if she was alright at the exact time they estimate she was dragged into the lane. The family looking for their loved one not knowing that she had been killed just a hundred or so feet away, the community demanding action and peaceful protests.

        Of course young Jill wasn’t a black teenager so she is seen as the victim by everyone…something poor trayvon doesn’t get the luxury of.

    • ladystclaire says:

      IMO, I think they SHOULD release some of Fogen’s sealed evidence for the simple reason, that the defense insist on making the innocent victim in this case out to look as though he was the aggressor and a criminal in the making. I am sick of reading all of the racist remarks by those who see fit to support a LIAR and a MURDERER. at the same time, I’m also sick of the defense seeing fit to lie on this kid.

      MOM can defend his client without all of the drama that he has been displaying from day one. I have never seen an attorney act in such a despicable manner in my life. also, I have never seen an attorney take orders/advice from a racist group of IMBECILES who want to see a murderer walk, only because the victim in this case was an AA kid.

      As for those who want to see Fogen walk, their day of reckoning is coming and, it might not be too far away. you see, Tomorrow is promised to nobody and these a IMBECILES would do good to remember that. I wouldn’t support anybody who would kill a child and, no matter what color that child may be, I wouldn’t support who ever the murderer may be. I agree with who ever the person was that said. America will never really advance because of the rampant racism that exist in this country.

      So, I say release some of those sealed items!

      • Jun says:

        I dont think that is a good idea… anyways, there is so much info out on this case and google, people can look at everything objectively themselves

        If they cant already tell Omara and Fogen are big fat liars, I dont know what else to do

      • jo says:

        i think bdlr is going to tear someone a new hole during this trial. I think he will rejoice in it too. i think he will fight in trayvon’s honor and expose their dirty filthy tactics once and for all. I think it is now very personal for the prosecution, this kid was as innocent as they get and no one likes a child killer, especially a child killer who gloats and behaves as revoltingly as the defense and it’s supporters.

        by the way,i can’t tell you enough how disturbing his supporters are. Scary scary mob of hate mongering vile putrid pond scum. I imagine most of them don’t have teeth….or jobs…or girlfriends outside their immediate family…

      • Rachael says:

        @ jo “I think he will rejoice in it too.”

        I know I sure will!

      • Malisha says:

        jo — “or girlfriends, outside their immediate family” – lol!

        Once I was at lunch with a group of providers who served in the US Public Health Service and one of the doctors began to complain of the high rate of incest in the underserved area of the South where she was clinical director. I put down my sandwich and said, “But really, it’s not a bad idea sociologically.” HUH? The response of a half dozen doctors and nurses was unanimous. “It saves on men!” I explained. “You don’t have to have so many of them around. Your brother can be your husband and perhaps your son can also be your grandson, so you don’t have to put up with so many men in your life!”

        They bought me free desert when they finished guffawing. New York style Cheesecake, yum, I can still taste it.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I think that’s a wise way to handle arrests and trials and wish the States would do so. However, the loose laws in Fogen’s case have allowed public pressure to arrest and review his case which may not have happened otherwise, so I guess there’s a happy balance in there somewhere.

    • gbrbsb says:

      Not surprisingly we have the same system in the UK as I have explained here before. I presume except for family trials or by Court Order the public can attend as well… of course if you are early enough to get a seat as some are extremely popular.

      Four years ago we saw the biggest cloak of secrecy ever with the trial the case of Baby P (Peter Conolly). The judge imposed a complete ban on reporting names, addresses, photos or anything that could lead to identification of the 3 accused, and a ban on referring even to the existence of a second trial for rape of a minor two of the accused were to face after the first trial. Further, as a legal first, defence, prosecutor and Judge agreed that the accused would be tried under false names.

      It basically worked so not even the Jury knew their real names although for the second trial rumours, names and pics had started to appear on social media groups so that the defence did try to argue that the accused could not get a fair trial.

      • jo says:

        yes it’s a good system. And it is there ultimately to protect the victim AND the accused. I think it’s the only way to get a fair trial. But i must admit i do get a guilty pleasure out of the Florida system…..i’m a tad nosey lol

      • Two sides to a story says:

        It makes those FL cases irresistable to follow, that’s for sure. But I don’t think it’s fair for privacy issues for either the defendant or prosecution witnesses and taints the jury pool. Plus it encourages all sorts of media shenanigans by lawyers, family, and friends, as we’ve seen in Fogen’s case and others in FL.

        • gbrbsb says:

          Yes, agreed, I really can’t fathom how sunshine laws promote fairer trials, more visible justice, etc., less still from what is happening on this case. And what about child abuse cases and rape, are the names and details of victims and defendants all out there for everyone to oogle and google over. Yes, they are intriguing in as much as they are like a legal “soap” but IMO whether they serve justice better or not is a very very very moot point and as the jury is still out for me I wouldn’t be looking for a change to our system here at this time.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @gbrbsb — agreed. the sunshine laws are fascinating … as in watching a train wreck in slo-mo fascinating. i am thankful that it is only in florida and not the other 49 states of our union. i am convinced it does more harm than good. floriday is our red-headed step child, in all too many ways. maybe spain would like it back?

          • gbrbsb says:

            Lol. As a foreigner on a US blog for me to say “I am convinced it does more harm than good” would seem a bit ungrateful to the native host and bloggers but as you have said it first I admit those are my feelings too although I will try to keep looking for some redeeming feature that at least could balance with other systems.

            I reckon the Spanish would be happy just to get Gibraltar back (and this brit is on their side) rather than look to far away shores long forgotten the times when Spain was referred to as “el imperio en el que nunca se pone el sol”!

          • cielo62 says:

            @faux McCoy and gbrbsb- but think. If not for the Sunshine laws, we’d never know as much as we do about this case. There is no way any entity in Florida would be able to hush this up and make it go away. Too many people know the evidence. In this way, the Sunshine laws keep LE honest and on task.

            Sent from my iPod

          • gbrbsb says:

            You’re right, of course, without Sunshine laws we wouldn’t know as much about this case, but my problem is that I am not sure we should or need to know for justice to be served or that it makes for a fairer and/or better judicial system that we DO know.

            From my understanding the Sunshine laws were more to make government transparent (a good thing), with transparency of the judicial process coming recently in comparison. And has the Sunshine law eliminated corruption, I think not just as the system over here hasn’t either because IMO there will always be ways as there will always be corrupt people to find them.

          • cielo62 says:

            Gbrbsb- alas you also are right. Plug up one rat hole, the rat will find another. ‘Sigh’

            Sent from my iPod

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            The trouble here is the SPD, Wolfinger and Lee really, really, really wanted to sweep this case under the rug. The Orlando Sentinel probably really, really, really wanted to help them do so, as well as the TV and radio station. So, just learning of the case was not nearly enough. If the public had not learned of how extraordinarily guilty the defendant is, it’s likely that, even after the public got the case going, they could still have provided enough false evidence, lost or ignored enough good evidence, to make the case go away anyway. IIRC some 28 officers landed their clubs on Rodney King’s handcuffed body, prone on the ground, nobody was convicted of doing anything wrong, because the jury believed that one handcuffed man on the ground frightened the daylights out of 28 armed officers standing over him. They asked Dorismond if he could sell them some marijuana, Abner Louima was held down in a police station bathroom and Sean Bell was leaving a wedding reception when a cop jumped upon the hood of his car an blasted away at him.

            So yeah, these things need to be made public. As you can see, it still doesn’t stop them from pulling the wool over the public’s eyes, but it’s a small start.

        • gbrbsb says:

          @Two Sides
          Oh, agreed. I am unable as yet to fathom in what way sunshine laws create a fairer system, less still since my interest has focussed on this case. And what about trials for child abuse, adult rape? Is it all out there for everyone to “oogle” and google over!

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            The Founding Fathers knew what secret trials could mean, is why they threw the courts open to the public. For better or worse, public view is the only way we have to guarantee the best outcomes overall, and even that’s no guarantee, but it better than any alternative we have found so far.

          • gbrbsb says:

            Trials open to the public, which is the same as we have in the UK, isn’t the same as this transparency, sunshine laws, which I thought wasn’t introduced until the 1990’s, so hardly attributable to the “Founding Fathers”, or not?

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Basically the Florida law is just an adaptation of the Founders beliefs that public scrutiny is needed to keep the systems of gov’t working properly.

          • gbrbsb says:

            I understand that public scrutiny of gov’t is necessary and good, what I can’t fathom is how such intense scrutiny was stretched to cover even the evidence of a murder trial, more especially when however much the public knows it is the Jury gets to decide not even the Judge.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Well, it works because information spread is not absolute. You could easily find twelve people who don’t know who is president. I’m sure they’ll be able to find 6 people who never even heard of this case.

          • gbrbsb says:

            Just asking, would a racist with an agenda actually say they had heard of the case or would they more likely say, George who?

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Of course they would be likely to answer any obvious question in a way they believed would get them on the jury. But, that’s exactly why no such obvious questions will be asked, except to establish a “baseline”. When you don’t trust someone, do you really ask them obvious questions then rely upon the answer? Or do you ask them obvious questions to get their obvious answers on record, before you ask them to address the conflicting evidence?

            Like I said, the jurors might just see a black man and a white woman embracing somewhere along their way to the courtroom. Guaranteed they’re going to encounter some stimulus if a juror selection expert is deployed.

          • gbrbsb says:

            I’m not trying to be obtuse I promise, but you can’t tell me a clever and determined potential juror won’t know what to answer and how not to react… many of those on this blog! For better or worse in the UK we have a completely different system. A jury is selected at random from a pool called to service at a given Court on a given date and no-one knows which potential juror will sit in which court. Always 12, neither prosecution nor defence can question them nor reject one unless for a very very very good reason (“challenge for cause”). They are asked but one question by the Judge, i.e. whether he/she can give a fair hearing to both the Crown (prosecutor in the US) and the defence and if they assert they are empanelled.

            There are obviously pros and cons to each system but it would seem, apart from being less hassle and cheaper, ours trusts that were there say a racist or two on board the remaining randomly selected jurors will do their work honestly so as to not allow a prejudiced judgement otherwise it will be hung (not literally, of course!). If the Jury after a prudent time shows it is running into difficulties the Judge can lower the bar to a majority of 10 which eliminates at least two flagrant racists, or whatever.

            Personally I am not sure if a Judge (or even tribunal) based system, existent in many European and other countries isn’t fairer. I can’t remember who it was who said that most trials are 85% decided during Jury selection (SP and defence vying to sit a jury more favourable to their own side), which doesn’t point to fairness, and there are complex fraud trials that it is nigh impossible for your average peer to follow let along find the facts. Indeed in one such trial the Jury was dismissed after sitting for 6 months for that very reason; it appears some were even playing noughts and crosses out of boredom!

          • fauxmccoy says:

            gbrbsb says

            it appears some were even playing noughts and crosses out of boredom!

            i’m going to guess that this is what we call tic-tac-toe? well, at least they weren’t playing hangman 🙂

            i suspect that either method of jury selection has it’s ups and downs. we obviously put enormous effort into seating a jury, but both sides do have relative equality in doing so.

          • gbrbsb says:

            Funny, it’s called tic-tac-toe in Spanish, noughts and crosses in the Queen’s English! Yeah, hangman would have been a good one… may be they did before we abolished the death penalty! 🙂

  11. colin black says:

    Sorry sundance agreed with Crump an Blackwells position in comment posted below his article………………………………………………………………………………
    sundance says:

    April 6, 2013 at 2:34 am

    Good grief. Another consideration. With the revelation that Mark O’Mara was part of the decisionmaking apparatus to settle with the Martin estate – it certainly makes a solid case for Benjamin Crump not being deposed by him.

    Actually, as much as I hate to admit it, I’d have to agree with Crump and Blackwell’s position now.

    There is no-way that Mark O’Mara, a decisionmaker/adviser to *potential* civil defendants, should be allowed to depose the opposing counsel about specifics of his knowledge surrounding the case.

    This revelation changes everything.

    I wonder if George Zimmerman knew how much of a conflicted position his attorney was elbowing himself into?


    • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

      How would SD know if MOM was part of the decision making to settle the Martin estate and why would MOM be part of the decision making?

    • I had no idea that MOM was involved in the decision to settle the HOA case.

      That sounds like a conflict of interest to me.

      • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

        Professor- This is coming from SD at CTH…he claims to have insider information and says that common sense would tell you that MOM was advising to settle because he knew specific details of the settlement and Crump gave MOM a copy of the agreement.

        We don’t know for sure if it is true..I’m still reading all the comments. But if this turns out to be true, MOM will have to clean house because either he has a mole, or Fogen and Family are telling SD

      • Cercando Luce says:

        O’Mara was quoted in today’s New York Times saying that the Martin family and the HOA tried to settle through mediation but talks fell apart after the Martin family rejected a $1,000,000 offer.

      • gbrbsb says:

        I’ll believe his involvement when I see it detailed in print!

      • Rachael says:

        Yeah yeah yeah – he also has some inside information about M-DPD that is going to shock us all. He has been saying it for months now, but of course, he is not at liberty to talk about it. I guess he could tell “us” but then they’d have to kill him or something. But it is about Trayvon and it will change the geography of the world.

        Oh my Gawd

      • Rachael says:

        Miami-Dade Police Department

      • Rachael says:

        @cielo62 – he’s crazy and he has been getting closer and closer to slipping off the deep end and I think as of yesterday, he has.

      • Jun says:

        Sunprancer gets into contact with his contacts using tinfoil hat signals

        It is like a bat signal, but for right wing wackos and racists LOL

      • Malisha says:

        Here’s a weird thing, huh: Some wacko thinks the Miami-Dade police have evidence that will blow the case up? By what, remote control? Or they had a phone tap on DeeDee’s phone and they recorded a whole different scenario.

        What happens is that people like our fantasy-man watch a lot of TV, including those “save the victim at the last minute” cop shows. They’re muddle-headed to start with and probably alcoholic as well. In a drunken state, they can get awfully mixed up and think their “victim” is Fogen and he is being attacked by a mob of crazed serial killers profiled as “Black, male, young” and he’s just about to be killed and so…

        So they expect that last-minute resolution we sometimes call “deus ex machina” that always happens in the good cop shows. Somebody kicks down the door and saves the victim just when the bad guys are drooling over their intended kill (which they delay just…a…bit to savor the deliciousness of it) and they end on the high note of “something comes from the most unexpected place and saves the day.”

        I’d say there are folks addicted to that ending, judging by how often it is used. TV advertisers want to give us our drug. So folks imagine that is what will save them.

        It’s the Outhousers’ “Hail Mary”!

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I think Sundance’s insider information is a crock he makes up to string along his readership and donations for the site. He either takes a cue from OM or OM takes a cue from him on that account.

    • Jun says:

      At least that idiot understands opposing counsel now, at the very least

    • Some of the GZ followers are turning on Sundance. This is what I believe…Sundance is bashing Mark O’Mara in order to cover his ass b/c he’s been so wrong about this case and he’s manipulated these folks mind & they’re now seeing just how wrong he has been. He has been constantly telling them about bs conspiracies & this inside information he has and each time it’s fallen flat. The people that question him about it are kicked off the blog and banned. One of the GZ supporters went OFF on him and accused HIM of doxing those two girls.

      Should I ask for forgiveness that YOU took it upon yourself to “investigate” a criminal case I don’t think anyone but yourself took on. Spare me your tears. Umkay? George would actally have done much better without your terrible PI skills. Lets not mention the two DD’s you doxed INCORRECTLY that Omara went on in court! We will just sweep it under the rug and forget that silly little embarrassment in March.

      I sure hope someone from the State is reading. I hope they nail Sundance to the wall. I want to see him perp walked. And WTF is wrong with O’Mara for listening to this bs and going along with it?

      • Jun says:

        To be honest, Omara is dumb to listen to him, because any normal person could tell what he was spewing was farfetched and not etched in reality

        it is 2013

        Do they not realize how far advanced in science we have come to? How about sociology?

      • Rachael says:

        He has been bashing O’Mara all along. He has never liked him or felt he was helping GZ, but now he has really gone off his rocker and a few people have thought he was really losing it and it gets him really upset if someone doesn’t agree with him. The ones who stand by his side say stuff about how he’s always been right, but I have yet to see anything he has been right about. And he’s always saying he has some inside information he will tell about soon, but soon never happens. I really thought that after the outhouse was mentioned in court, it would stop. He stopped having a GZ only thread, but now he has several threads at a time going about GZ stuff and the racism is more blatant than ever – even in the non-GZ threads.

        I would imagine if the State was watching then, they still are now and I hope all your hopes come true.

        I swear, reading over there reminds me of working on a psych ward.

        • cielo62 says:

          Rachel- and now their little empire is starting to crumble! In fighting, name calling, suspicions, blaming and shaming, bawling and banning. What a sight!

          Sent from my iPod

      • Rachael says:

        Jun, as far as advanced sociology, they have set sociology back 200 years.

        • Xena says:


          Jun, as far as advanced sociology, they have set sociology back 200 years.

          Make that around the time when man discovered fire.

      • Jun says:

        I do not expect much intelligence from the treefort

        I mean, if they are the last refuge, they are royally fucked LOL

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Oh, I hope they nail him or whoever did it bigtime.

        I followed the “purple lean” howling over there with interest – they do some good investigating and then take it all to such an extreme and hateful level that they have no credibility whatsoever. If Sundance is a Publix manager, I wonder how he holds his job down.

    • Rachael says:

      And we know he didn’t call a lawyer. Fricken fool.

      And why would you put someone’s arms out and ask for help restraining anyway – watching too much CSI or something. Goodness gracious. I swear he musta been high on something to act out like that.

      Thanks LLMPapa –

    • Cercando Luce says:

      George was talking about a previous encounter, before he shot his victim.

      • ay2z says:

        He did a lot of that, didn’t he? It’s like he can bring stories in from past real events and be confident of not being caught lying because the stories are true, out of place but true. He just chooses to believe what he’s saying at the moment he’s saying it. so comes across as convincing.

    • I still say that GZ has a habit of adding elements of fact into his stories. As I mentioned in the other thread, I personally think that he DID say, “Don’t call the police; help me restrain this guy.”

      But I don’t think he said it to Witness 13. I think he actually said those words to John (W6) when John said that he was calling 911. IMO, John needs to be questioned one more time.

      • Jun says:

        If that is true, it could be why witness 6 was scared when he found out Fogen was not arrested yet

        I mean, the 911 call of witness 6, the original testimony is, that there were guys wrestling and then he told them he was calling the cops, and then he said the guy shot the black guy

        Then the testimony changed a few times after that

      • LeaNder says:

        Yes, he claims he said that to John/w6. I guess the problem with that is the same as with the whole larger scenario. It’s ultimately him against John, and John does not sound like he was a hero. In spite of the fact he claims his “finance” did actually forbid him to go outside. So he may be a hindered hero. 😉 Fact is, John could have prevented Trayvon’s dead.

    • ay2z says:

      Thanks, that cellphone time stamp sure has come in handy.

      The ‘on the phone’ maybe is interesting in that fogen was to expect a call from the officer when he got to the complex, to let the officer know where he was at.

      Timothy Smith call him? All that shimming and the phone was still in his pocket, undamaged, huh.

      • LeaNder says:

        That would make sense, but shouldn’t it show up in Smith report and there is no trace of it? On the other hand nothing about how he got to the scene shows up in his report either.

        As there are exchanges concerning the DIS/ENR/ARV of Smith/S2711 on the discovery logs in the 7th supplementary discovery on page 15. He is dispatched by terminal “TM6”: Dispatched 19:17:36, en route: 19:17.37, arrival 19:17:40. Yes, these two activities strictly could happen at the same time. TM6 dispatches S2711, and S2711 calls the caller. But could he have been sure at that point in time that it wasn’t really the caller that was shot? And I think he writes he is informed about the shot while en route.

    • Dave says:


      GZ has just shot a “criminal suspect” who has attacked and attempted to kill him. He rolls the wounded and (he believes) still living “suspect” over and sets his loaded gun down on the ground within inches of the “thug’s” right hand while he restrains the latter’s wrists and calls for help in restraining him.


      • Malisha says:

        especially since he already holstered the gun…

        and then worried that the cops would find him with his gun still drawn and shoot him…


      • LeaNder says:

        He rolls the wounded and (he believes) still living “suspect” over

        I think that was in the partial Serino transcript I read in the appendix, he claims to not have rolled him over but Trayvon was already face down. But strictly considering this time frame his memory is conveniently bad, he does not remember how he moved out from beneath him and Trayvon came to end up face down. Reminds me of the cover of specialist M. Knox’s book. Were Trayvon is portrayed lying on his side.

    • LeaNder says:

      That encounter caught my attention too, in the Singleton transcript if feels that they add to their appendix.

      Inv. Singleton: And you were holding him down.
      George Zimmerman: Yes, ma’am.
      Inv. Singleton: And they asked you.
      George Zimmerman: No, once police got there, I got on my feet because, uh, there was another person that got there, I guess a resident. I couldn’t see. He had a flashlight so I thought it was a police officer.
      Inv. Singleton: And at that point you stood up and got off of him.
      George Zimmerman: Yes, ma’am.

      Now I guess I have to completely surrender to the fact that he was indeed on the phone, at that point. I was never completely sure. Obviously didn’t pay enough attention of Jon. Does that mean Jon/witness #13 approached him from behind and immediately took the photo? Hmm? His statements clearly support that. Highly interesting catch, LLMPapa.

      In any case at trial we will learn whom he called. I guess we would have a released 911 call if he had called back there. Feels he should have immediately told them to sent medics. Which apparently he didn’t. Otherwise I think we wouldn’t have heard BDLR challenge him about feeling sorry during the first bond hearing.

    • Malisha says:

      Also, let me get this straight.

      “My gun was here” — he points to his right and wiggles his right hand a bit.

      “I said don’t — I already called the police — help me restrain this guy” —

      Soooo… Fogen had his gun still out but he needed help from an unarmed neighbor to help restrain “the guy”? How come that?

      When I have a gun and I’m on somebody’s back spreading out their hands, I don’t need help restraining him. MY GUN HELPS ME with that.

    • LeaNder says:

      Interesting is this. Must indeed concern the release of the GZ call. Doesn’t this mean that even court history shows that Crump is clearly at least something analog to opposing counsel in this case. If you argue as they do, only prosecution is factually opposing counsel.

      Really funny that they argue that Nelson should go due to conflict of interest. Sounds to me like a pretty economical decision to choose a judge that already dealt with the case under a specific angle and thus is aware of the case history.

  12. colin black says:

    PS an in the above article Sundance even agrees with Blackwell an Crump thats got to be a first.

  13. colin black says:

    Sundance has an article up ..question for all m o m supporters.Basicly states that M O M was adviseing the H O A to sign off on the payment settlement to TRAYVONS PARENTS .
    he also claims two million was the sum agreed apon.

    So he infers this is further conflict biased behaviour by M O M though starts the article by claiming he has never attacked M O M and is not about to do so .
    Then does so?.

    The same guy who wrote an open letter to West the other day telling him m o m is an idiot or words to that affect.
    Is there any truth to his ramblings or just more paranoia…

    • fauxmccoy says:

      colin says

      So he infers this is further conflict biased behaviour by M O M though starts the article by claiming he has never attacked M O M and is not about to do so .
      Then does so?.

      The same guy who wrote an open letter to West the other day telling him m o m is an idiot or words to that affect.
      Is there any truth to his ramblings or just more paranoia…

      sounds like a 50 pound sack of mixed nuts … not that there’s anything wrong with that

    • kllypyn says:

      he is lying as usual. i doubt m.o.m is representing the hoa

      • Malisha says:

        Although, in truth, it does seem that O’Mara’s loyalties are divided. He seems at times to be representing the SPD and at other times to be half-assedly representing his own client.

        By now this whole case has become so psychoticized by the crazy behaviors of the defendant, his maybe counsel, his real counsel, his helpers in the SPD, his supporters in their bunkers, his wacko crazy bro and his crazed wife, and the weird-ass media, that a real, encyclopedic description of the event, the drammatis personnae, the case, and the cases would not only fill more volumes than Britannica, it would breed more fecundly than religious scripture. Half of O’Mara’s attention always seems turned toward the federal investigation of the SPD. Now why the Hell would THAT be? So…HOA? Not impossible.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        This is better than a free e-book thriller at Amazon, I’m tellin’ ya!

    • Cercando Luce says:

      Is not the owner of the Treehouse blog a manager for a Publix supermarket? How could he have any relevant information at all? Mrs. O’Mara telling him as he helps a cashier reverse a charge?

      • LeaNder says:

        Not sure if I completely understand that, Luce. In any case it feels to me that all these people carefully cover up their identity. I understand it was irony. 😉 But I look up Pubix supermarket to completely understand.

        Strictly it would make sense in the same way that Corey deals with Shellie’s case too to hire O’Mara. And in a way it would explain why, as Stutzman writes, O’Mara states in a February interview that Crump & family did not accept a one million offer. Although could he say that if he was involved in the case? Doubtful. I still wonder how he could have known. Media reports?

        On the other hand would Crump need to sent the redacted compromise to O’Mara at this point in time, if he was involved? I doubt. That clearly seems to be a response to the writ.

  14. ChrisNY~Laurie says:

    Xena says

    @Jun. Actually, all that Blackwell and the Florida AG have to do is show the Appellate Court that Judge Nelson did not err in her decision, and they can use the first order for their support. Then, they need to show the Appellate Court that O’Mara’s motion for reconsideration lacked the requirements as it raised no argument of new evidence or evidence that the lower court did not previously consider that would justify changing the court’s order on the motion to compel.

    That and the fact that W8 was still not deposed. Any and all of what they claim they need to depose Crump for can be obtained by deposing W8… What do they not understand??

    • Malisha says:

      They do not understand that the grandstanding, the fussing and bawling, the snits and the sniffs and the spoofs and the fogenfartz, all added up together will STILL not change the fact that he really HAS been charged with Murder-2 and that there really WILL be a trial unless he pleads. Other than that, I think they have a good grip on reality.

      • Jun says:

        They’re counting on the writ to cause the court to delay for 3 to 4 months LMAO

      • LeaNder says:

        That’s a good point, Malisha. Strictly their whole argument in a nutshell is: If Crump had not schemed and somehow pulled DeeDee out of his hat, our client would have never been charged and our good police men at SPD would have been held in high esteem. And now we are not allowed to uncover all these machinations that led to our innocent client to be charged with murder?

        What is interesting in their huge attention on media and whatever Crump said, they completely ignore what he said about how the encounter with DeeDee came about. Instead of that a whole series of insinuations and prevarications. The fact that Tracy Martin found her number on the cell phone records of his son is nowhere to be found. Not in the 43 page writ and not anywhere on the 271 pages appendix. And since it has to disappear maybe the connected police argument by e.g. Jeralyn, that Tracy denied SPD access to Trayvon cell phone has to disappear without a trace too.

        I guess they think when they can make DeeDee go away, somehow impeach her, the whole cell phone records will sink with her into oblivion. Or alternatively they do not want to show us their hands fully.

        I wonder why we never heard again about the fact that T-mobile seems to only register and/or charge full minutes. Considering how time obsessed we are in this case I wonder, if they do not register the exact durations to find out how much extra money they earn with this method. I cannot believe they don’t. Strictly they have to, if most of their competitors only charge the exact time of a call.

        Besides shouldn’t they should know by now if there is any chance to use the GPS data.

        Somewhere, I do not remember where since I made no notes, they cite a statement by Crump in the media that he knows how and where Trayvon entered RTL. I think that is the type of stuff they want to know more about. Remember Taaffe said something like that too in his interview with Dave, and defense has been challenged concerning the complete FBI files. So that may be one reason they don’t tell us anything about, at least not beyond dropping little hints.

  15. LeaNder says:

    The first thing that struck me when I read the petition was the flagrant false statement that a witness saw Trayvon straddling the defendant and hitting him repeatedly.

    What is even “curiouser” is that they add the transcript of the second modified statement. Were the red turned into red or white and the MMA style into either hitting or holding down.

    Do they feel the appeals court will not look at their 271 appendix?

    Was interesting to look at their selective look of the case presentation. The most interesting passage were the hearing transcripts, especially the February 22, hearing, with Blackwell’s, West’s and Nelson’s argument.

    Reading that again, I noticed some things, it feels, I did not pay too much attention to. There is one passage were O’Mara clearly interferes to remind West to connect his own special issue–Crump/DeeDee-with his own the issue of delay or necessary continuance. So that the writ may well serve both causes.

    Apart from too many misguided arguments, my own favorite is still the citation of a parts of the recently released ABC audio of a part of Crump’s Dee interviw that caused such a big brouhaha in the pro-Fogen camp.

    I find it highly ironic– even more in the context of their writ argument–concerning the necessity of Crump’s deposition that they cite a passage were Crump allegedly could be coaching DeeDee, and she corrects since he obviously did not understand her as correctly as she wanted to be understood. After all this audio file was an absolute revelation, darkly hinting there may be more to found. And that is all they can present of this important tape? Seriously?

    Maybe they are completely unable to see the irony of a “coach” being corrected by “the coached”. but then I was pretty amused by the excitement and the attempts to read matters into this tape one expected to find there. Like this wonderful response by Jeralyn shows. 😉

    Jeralyn Merritt:

    You can listen to a clip I made of her saying “What are you talking about” here. If you still can’t hear it, then I think you don’t want to hear it, or you aren’t as familiar with her speech as you think you are.

    After finishing reading the affidavit, that is, their selective case presentation and the history of “l’affaire Crump”, I have to admit that it is still an enormous pleasure to read Bruce Blackwell’s arguments, both written and spoken. Without his remarks in his response to their motion, it is strange they claim having tried to depose Benjamin Crump for month by now, but have never put him on any of their witness lists, they may completely have forgotten to do so. They took the hint ( I think there was something else) and added him on March 21, even the typist couldn’t help but show bias by misspelling the name. Mirroring the atmosphere in Fogen’s defense team?

    Good night all, yes pure maneuvering. The Prof is right, but strictly instead of a summary denial, I would love to read a good argument against the writ. Fishing for something one suspects could be there or a base for impeachment of DeeDee is simply not a good argument it feels. Crump’s media statements show what they spend their time on. It slips in and hinders a more coherent and straightforward argument.

    good night from Europe

    • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

      I know I should have, but did not read the appendix that went with the writ. I did not know that O’Mara included W6’s retracted statement. So, he writes in his writ that prior to the fatal shot, Mr. Martin was seen by a witness to the incident on top of and straddling and beating Mr. Zimmerman as he lay on the ground, and includes the redacted statement where W6 pretty much states that he couldn’t tell if the guy on top was hitting the guy on bottom or if he’s was trying to hold him down in that position until the cops got there. Yes, i agree that he must have counted on them not actually reading his appendix…. Or he at least counted on the public not reading it.

      • LeaNder says:

        Well, they have a contents page. you can look at that. The “retracted” statement, as you call it, is followed by a Fire & Rescue interview “EMT” Kevin O’Rourke”, he is not a medic but, if I remember correctly, drives the car and helps the medics.. I think they assume that witness #6 statement in connection with the witness describing 45% of the head covered in blood is enough, to contradict the holding down scenario. I somehow wondered while reading it, why they did not use the interview of the medic that treated him.

        They only include the Singleton interview, and at one point Singleton asks if his nose is OK or if it looks swollen. Of Serino’s interviews they only include the short telephone call on March 25, where Serino asks if he is out of state and how long it would take him to return for questioning.

        That is interesting, it may suggest that they intend to challenge all of Serino’s interviews, or maybe they argue that the first interview on the same night is the most reliable.

        One thing I wondered about, why there is nowhere a trace of the much argued little item that Tracy Martin denied police access to Trayvon Martin’s phone, Strictly that would support much of their criticism of Crump’s approach to work over media and then State and/or the FBI instead of informing and having local authorities present at the time of the interview. I still wonder, if Crump in any case was restricted in any way to do what he did in this context. I doubt he did not have the right to do it the way he did.

        And I think in the appendix, not in the writ, West argues that they have three police officers stating under oath hat Tracy said it was not Trayvon’s voice screaming. Strictly, Serino must have been aware of them, why do we hear nothing about it in his ROI’s?

        Serino: Mr. Martin clearly emotionally impacted by the recording, quietly responded “no”.

        It now feels to me that this ROI served to defend himself against these three officers, that may have criticized him for not including it in his ROI(‘s)

        Leon Ciesla, supports him in an addition to his report the same day. Martin spoke very low so he couldn’t here anything, he writes. All this happened in the area (at Serino’s desk) where Fogen is confronted with his own call and the witness #11’s call. Rebecca Villalona has her desk across Serino’s but they have not deposed her, so who are these three officers, and why do they think it is important to repeat the words of a clearly emotionally impacted father? Isn’t is much easier to live with the idea that Trayvon instead of screaming did the best to defend himself, to realize too late the real danger when the guy suddenly drew a gun?

      • LeaNder says:

        correction, they do indeed add a part of the Feb. 27, interview with Serino, the part that includes Serino’s attempts at figuring out times for the re-enactment.

      • LeaNder says:

        I was slightly wrong here. There is another short transcript of Serino’s interview on Feb. 27, mainly addressing the intended reenactment and a couple of other questions.

  16. fauxmccoy says:

    fred — would you be so kind as to check you email as soon as it is convenient?

  17. Dennis says:

    I felt I would share a funny scene from The Sopranos where Junior is discussing his terms for bond:

    Judge Greenspan: Mr. Soprano, do you have a problem with wearing an electronic bracelet?
    Junior: It sounds like Nazi Germany to me.
    Judge Greenspan: Obviously you need a history lesson, sir.

    I could not stop laughing at Junior’s response.

  18. crazy1946 says:

    One can only wonder if MOM has even considered that there will be a trial starting on June 10? He is wasting all his time and efforts on foolish motions and media blitz’s! I think it might be a good time for the court to take charge of the money in Fogen’s defense fund. I still consider him a good candidate for acting like a rabbit and running using money skimmed off the PayPal account!

    • Dennis says:

      Less that two months away and O’Mara still can’t even pay experts because Fogen spent all of his money on useless security and debts. Fogen must be the stupidest person on Earth to spend his money on debts before legal fees considering his debts are meaningless if he goes to prison for the rest of his sad life.

      • Xena says:


        Fogen must be the stupidest person on Earth to spend his money on debts before legal fees …

        Yes, but that’s the nature of an abuser. Abusers use whatever implied promises they can in order to get people to commit to them. Once they are deep in the relationship, the abuser not only sticks the knife in their back, but twists it after doing so.

        O’Mara agreed to represent GZ pro bono because GZ and ShelLIE are unemployed and have no assets. Then he discovered that GZ had received about $200,000 in donations. Knowing it does not require that much money for living expenses, there was an implied promise that legal costs and fees would be paid to O’Mara.

        .But, GZ exhausted the money and still owes the security firm $28,000. If he and O’Mara discussed payment of legal fees and costs, I can hear GZ say, “But you agreed to represent me pro bono.”

      • Rachael says:

        Well Dennis, he probably didn’t think he needed to pay the legal fees because he was so sure there wouldn’t be any – but as stupid as you think he is, O’Mara is even stupider by believing GZ would pay him. I mean this is a man who had that kind of debt to begin with and didn’t even pay his rent. Why would O’Mara believe he would pay him anything? For god’s sake, he’s an attorney. How many time has he heard “The check is in the mail.” Anyone who has had any life experience or watched TV Judge shows KNOWS that whenever someone says, “I’ll pay you back when I get my income tax returns” won’t.

        I really think if not on the same level, perhaps O’Mara is even more stupid than GZ!!! And as much as I want this trial over an done with, I think GZ has a legitimate complaint about inadequate representation.

        • Xena says:

          @Rachael. O’Mara was deceived by his own logic and GZ’s potted palm posture. GZ had lived with the Ostermans, and his parents also have a house. His parents put up their house as collateral for the bond. Logically, moving in with his parents would provide them with security so they wouldn’t have to live like vagabonds, right?

          That would eliminate the expense of extended stay hotel rooms and an additional hotel room for security, right?

          After O’Mara took over the funds, I remember him saying that he was setting aside $27,000 for GZ’s living expenses. Apparently, O’Mara determined that was GZ’s income the previous year.

          IOWs, O’Mara was thinking like a logical person figuring that out of the $145,000 or so that he received, and with more coming in, that GZ would live off $27,000 and the rest would cover legal costs and fees.

          He had no idea that GZ would decide to live in a manner that exceeded $100,000 in less than a year.

      • Jun says:

        Let’s see Fogen

        About 40K in debt

        Refused to pay his landlord and then called the police on him and tried to frame his landlord

        Stiffed his other lawyers who helped him win $18,000 and still has not paid those other lawyers

        Had money available to pay bond but instead, chose to structure the money and scam the court, and get a bail bondsman, then paid off his debts

        Omara had to hustle money from Fogen by claiming it was for “Office Upgrading”

        I personally would not put it past Omara if he purposely set Fogen up by playing along with the first bond hearing scam they pulled, then told on Fogen, so Omara could control the funds

      • racerrodig says:

        “Fogen must be the stupidest person on Earth”

        So we can say that no exchange about intelligence ever occurred between O’ Mara and Fogen anything like this one…

        Just sayin……….

      • Jun says:

        That’s an unfair comparison

        Forest Gump is way smarter than Fogen

    • Xena says:


      One can only wonder if MOM has even considered that there will be a trial starting on June 10?

      Well, that’s O’Mara’s whole point — he doesn’t want GZ’s trial to begin on June 10th nor any other time. All of the Zidiot theories O’Mara has adopted, and his attacks on Witness 8 and video taping the depositions of Trayvon’s parents, is engaging in emotional extortion in effort to have the case dismissed.

      • Rachael says:

        In case that doesn’t happen, I wonder if he has a plan B.

        • Xena says:


          In case that doesn’t happen, I wonder if he has a plan B.


          After failing to ambush BDLR to litigate the case during motion hearings, O’Mara tried getting GZ’s GPS ankle bracelet removed. Denied.

          If O’Mara sincerely believes that GZ is innocent, he would have held that immunity hearing. That is now out of the picture.

          So plan B is what O’Mara said at a press conference — GZ has gained over 100 lbs in less than a year. Plan B is to get him in the hospital just before June 10th.

      • Jun says:

        Remember the 7-11 photo that Omara had

        He really cracked the case with that one, Johnson

      • cielo62 says:

        Xena- yeah, right. Get the case dismissed. As if his stupid little antics that would have worked in divorce court are going to have ANY effect on a murder trial!! Bust MOM back to traffic tickets!

        Sent from my iPod

        • Xena says:


          Xena- yeah, right. Get the case dismissed. As if his stupid little antics that would have worked in divorce court are going to have ANY effect on a murder trial!! Bust MOM back to traffic tickets!

          Hahahaha! You are so right.
          The State of Florida is not about to dismiss GZ’s case. They had the evidence and dots connected before filing the Information, and have acquired further evidence since then. GZ is going to prison for life.

      • ay2z says:

        Rachael says:
        April 6, 2013 at 5:12 pm
        In case that doesn’t happen, I wonder if he has a plan B.

        ‘B’ for Bail?? l…. aka jump ship, (not the bond kind)

    • The court cannot take any action regarding that money because it has no authority to do so.

      Given the settlement, anyone who contributes any money to the defendant at this point might as well give it to Tracy and Sybrina instead because they are going to get any money he has left after he is convicted.

    • Jun says:

      Look at it this way

      Fogen is unreasonable and crazy

      Fogen’s gang members are unreasonable and crazy

      Joonyah is unreasonable, crazy, and can’t shut his mouth

      None of them want to pay Omara a single dime and think Omara is a cancer on Fogen’s defense

      Sounds like a lot of stress and you can see it on Omara’s face… compare it to April 11, 2012 or so, and his face looked youthful… now it is full of wrinkles, is always red, and he always looks angry

      My guess is Omara is acting out of stress and anger, rather than reason and logic

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Jun, LOL I have even made remarks about how MOM has aged about 5+ years since taking this case. he’s has gotten older and even more racist. he always has a sour look on his face, that makes him look even worse than he already does.

      • racerrodig says:

        And “…..I think it’s undisputed…” to quote O’ Mara.

      • Jun says:

        This is how Omara chats with SunPrance Cracker

        Omara: That is a little racist. I do not think I should tell the judge all blacks are thugs.

        Sunprancer: It’s the libbeeroll meeedia… they got to you… freakin blacks have too much power

        Fogen: I want Pizza, and I am not paying you Omara.

    • gbrbsb says:


      Rabbits don’t run, they hop… unless of course it’s of the GZ variety in which case they skip… and sometimes shimmy!

      • ay2z says:

        lol! Double Dutch Chocolate Bunnies

        • gbrbsb says:

          Are you sure… really really sure… because I’m not so have decided to just sit on the proverbial hedge until more info comes out.

        • gbrbsb says:

          Are you sure… really really sure… because I’m not so have decided to just sit on the proverbial hedge until more info comes out.

        • gbrbsb says:

          Ooops… what a goof I am. My reply to you about sitting on the fence was because I thought with this you were replying to my other reply to you about the confidential information filed at the court. Sorry!

  19. Dennis says:

    Lawyers and prosecutors that lie openly in court or in court documents, should be charged with contempt of court and be removed from the case permanently.

    • JustMe says:

      That brings me to another question. Will MOM get sanctioned for lying in his writ in reference to witness #6 who recanted MMA blows to not seeing any attack, just a struggle in the grass?

      • Dennis says:

        Since that witness has changed his story, he is no longer viewed as a reliable witness. I couldn’t take anything he says seriously because it was dark. His multiple versions confirm that he doesn’t know exactly what he saw, or that he was coached when he gave his original statement.

      • He should, but he probably won’t.

  20. colin black says:

    Just watch doc about R Chase the vampire killer.
    The detective whom arrested him knew he had already killed people with out remorse.
    He over killed with both knife an gun.
    He had slaughted a young Woman in Sacramento an made of with her 21mth old baby

    The Detectives arrived at the motel complex he lived at guns drawn .
    Knowing he was armed.
    No answer to his door but could hear movements.
    Not haveing a search warrant he went to phone his boss.
    AS he did so he spotted the suspect exiting the room.
    Carrying a carboard box full of bloody rags .
    He started to run away an his partner rugby tackled him to the ground.

    He fought like a tiger an reached for his handgun.
    Wherupon the other detective arrived gun cocked an stuck it in his ear hole and said.
    Stop fighting or I will blow your fn head off.

    He never stopped fighting an the detectives said thats when I realised Im not a cold blooded killer like he is.
    The struggle continued an they got him cuffed up .
    The inside of his room was wall to wall blood but no sign of the Baby.

    It struck me as the detective whom had the gun to his head said.
    I knew I could kill him an I knew it would have been justified.
    But we are policemen sworn to uphold the law an not cold blooded killers even of monsters that deserve to die.

    Kinda makes foggens
    Fairy tales even more pathetic he killled Trayvon because he could would an should.
    As in every other fk up in his pathetic life he blamed the victim.
    He made me kill him he was threating me verbaly an assaulting me.

    All the actions he had taken against his victim he projected onto Trayvon.
    He attacked me…..Nope foggage assaulted Trayvon
    He threatened to kill me…ditto
    He thought he could say any old verbage indicating he was attacked by a Black Teen an be beleived an for what ever reason he was almost right.
    Difffernt circumstances forinstance Tratvons a good kid but an orphan an in a care home.
    An is visiting freoinds at the retreat foggagge spots him an the rest is history.
    Without Trayvons Parents refusal to lie down.
    He never gets charged an we never hear of Trayvon S P D or the dolt an he walks on a blatant raceist murder .
    Its a Scarey thought just how many murders go under the radar as justified kills,

    Its a dessision we in the UK never realy have to make as no one is allowed to carrry a gun for self defence purposes.

    In fact unless you live in a farming game keeping type of enviroment.
    You could apply for a shotgun licance to the police.

    Anyone with a criminal record is prohibited under the firearms act from owning a weapon.
    Even replicas.
    No one is allowed a gun licence for any type of hand gun here even for sport.
    Since the massacre of infants at Dunblane primary school.

    • Dennis says:

      If they are taking away your guns in the UK just because of a crime on your record, especially a non-violent crime, then I truly believe the UK has become a police state.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        But just think, non-murderous types get to go about their lives without worry. They even get to write letters to the newspaper using their own name without considering that some nut might shoot them for it, the way it is here in the USA.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Wish we had the same laws. While we have responsible gun owners, there are far too many irresponsible people with guns too.

  21. ay2z says:

    Woui;d tthis confidential info be the video taped deposition?

    The notice of confidential info in court file appeared the other day, this has now been added.



    • gbrbsb says:

      Could be the tapes, but over at TL where I have been reading the comments about the pay out, they are saying it is likely the confidential agreement relating to the insurance settlement that Crump may have filed under the criminal case, no one knows for what reason, and over which Judge Nelson has given Crump 10 days to object to it being made public. Who knows?

  22. colin black says:

    Custody fingerprinted in the court room an taken into custody hand cuffed by bailiffs .
    Led away to await sentance maybe two weeks or 30 days for reports.

    • If an appeal is filed, will he be out during the appeal process?

      • Rachael says:

        I don’t see why he would be. If he is convicted, he will – AFAIK – have to start serving his sentence until it can be appealed. I could be wrong though, or maybe it is wishful thinking, but again, it seems to me if he is convicted, he is convicted and he has to start his sentence.

        • Xena says:

          In the John Goodman case, his attorney motioned for a bond pending appeal. The court granted the motion and ordered that Goodman be kept on the GPS ankle bracelet.

          Goodman violated the terms of bond when he tried removing the GPS ankle bracelet.

          Yes, a convicted defendant can be released pending appeal, but only under conditions of bond. GZ is broke so there is better chance that he will be remanded to prison.

          • cielo62 says:

            Xena- that filthy creep looks like he might get another trial in florida because of a jury member having had a wife once arrested for DUI.

            Sent from my iPod

          • Xena says:


            Xena- that filthy creep looks like he might get another trial in florida because of a jury member having had a wife once arrested for DUI.

            Are you serious?

            Let me see if I can figure this out. A juror whose wife was once arrested for DUI finds Goodman guilty because he was drunk when ramming into the victim’s car. Are you sure that wasn’t the juror’s ex-wife? 🙂

          • cielo62 says:

            Just saw it on the Houston daily rag, the Chronicle. That’s what it said though it doesn’t make sense to me, either.

            Sent from my iPod

          • Xena says:


            That’s what it said though it doesn’t make sense to me, either.

            I’ll try catching up with that case. Thanks.

        • cielo62 says:

          Rahael- usually I’ve seen that certain charges the convicted person can remain free on bail while appealing. But that’s not usual for murder cases.

          Sent from my iPod

      • fauxmccoy says:

        diary asks

        If an appeal is filed, will he be out during the appeal process?

        highly doubtful, he would be a convicted murderer at that point.

      • Dennis says:

        Fogen already tried to manipulate the court by hiding money and his second passport. There is no way he would be bonded out if convicted. A convicted murderer is a definite flight-risk.

      • Trained Observer says:

        @ Zena — What a hoot-worthy vision. Polo-playing elitist druggie/drunk John Goodman and Fogen as cellmates.

      • goodman is a prime example of the power of wealth. it’s unbelievably UNFAIR he gets to hang at the 20,000 sq ft. mansion even though he was convicted of a HORRIBLE torturous DUI manslaughter!!

        millionaire goes to the club, buys him and friends 9 or 10 over poured, 50-something proof tequila shots.
        he’s slovenly drunk but still jumps in his Bentley and crashes into an innocent college kid’s Honda!,

        but goodman just walks off the scene and manages to help himself to another cocktail, in some other strangers house!

        meanwhile the victim drowns, not dies during the crash, but drowns all alone stuck in his car that was just pushed into a canal!

        omg!! how terrifying! I just can’t imagine! I’ve drowned and I can’t forget that horror! I don’t even wanna think about it!

        then out on bail, he obviously tried to remove the leg thing, but STILL gets to go home!!
        I used to have a crush on Roy Black, but I can’t stand him now..

        and this is the reason for appeal: a juror had an ex who crashed while drunk and left him when she met a new guy in DUI class?

        “Juror Dennis DeMartin reveals in a memoir that his ex-wife was arrested for wrecking her sports car while driving drunk and then fleeing the accident. She went on to have an affair with a man she met in a DUI program that led to the dissolution of DeMartin’s marriage. During jury selection, DeMartin never revealed his history. Goodman’s attorneys argue that if they’d known DeMartin’s past they would have blocked him from the jury, the Palm Beach Post reported. ”

        now, is a reason for appeal?? how is BDLR gonna find this kinda juror? how do you think of a voir dire question for this?!

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Fogen is very lucky to be out on bail. Depending on the circumstances of the case, many murder defendants stay in jail until after the trial and if convicted, simply stay there even during appeals.

  23. Trained Observer says:

    Professor … with June 10 still in play as the trial start, how much time should we block out on calendars for monitoring … divided for jury selection, opening arguments, testimony, cross, rebuttal, closing, jury deliberation, etc.?

    Can BDLR realistically get a conviction by the end of, say, July?

    The moment a guilty verdict is rendered, will Fogen be taken into custody to await sentencing? Or will this murderer be allowed to stay out on his ill-gotten bail?

    I know you don’t have a crystal ball … but, based on your experience and barring any appeals court curveballs or crazy antics from Fogen, what are the likelihooods on how this will play out?

  24. elcymoo says:

    This may have already been posted, but it was new to me:

    Click here: Generic Calendar/Clock – Countdown to Jun 10, 2013 in Orlando

  25. Trained Observer says:

    Professor … with June 10 still in play as the trial start, how much time should we block out on calendars for monitoring … divided for jury selection, opening arguments, testimony, cross, rebuttal, etc.?

    Can BDLR realistically get a conviction by the end of, say, July?

    The moment a guilty verdict is rendered, will Fogen be taken into custody to await sentencing. Or will this loser be allowed to stay out on his ill-gotten bail?

    I know you don’t have a crystal ball … but, based on your experience and barring any appeals court curveballs, what are the likelihooods on how this will play out?

    • I’m figuring 2-3 weeks for the trial after jury selection.

      Jury selection is tough to figure because of all the publicity and individual voir dire to deal with it. I guesstimate two weeks to seat a jury.

      Trial should be over by the end of July.

      If the jury finds him guilty, Judge Nelson almost certainly will order him taken into custody pending sentencing.

      After all, this is a murder case.

  26. fauxmccoy says:


    • fauxmccoy says:

      uggg – i always hit ‘post comment’ before checking notification box. when will i ever learn?

    • looneydoone says:

      It appears I’m following you around this morning 😉
      I have a throbbing headache after wading around in the cesspool.
      For what it’s worth, I was a recipient of one of the e-mails anarchy/mengez _merde spoke to (there were 4 of us, including the Professor who were on the mail out header). Hacked my personal e-mails, and made attempts at doxing me. I filed a complaint with huff-poop advising them these e-mail IP’s come back as code 403 “forbidden”….and that my computer tech assures me they are originating from a hacked, long dormant member account where 150+ socks are hiding.

      I had intended on hanging on until fogen is convicted, but may close out my account earlier. I cannot support the corp host’s business ethics, and doubt there will be a satisfactory response to my complaint forthcoming. I’m in an effin rage ! Am investigating the viability of traveling to the USA and initiating a small claims action.

      • ic2fools says:

        Nooo Doone, sorry to hear this. I completely agree with researching initiating a small claims. I deleted my twitter account when they started posting my personal info from there.

        I am pretty much through with Huffpo taking any of our reports seriously. I was reading over there and also got a terrible headache. Storm Front backed up by those nutty trolling squirrels was too much. Its’ peaceful here with a wealth of information.

        Take care we can never be too safe.

        Hoodies Up! Justice For Trayvon!

        following 🙂

      • fauxmccoy says:

        thanks for the info looney- and yes, today i am having a ball at HP 🙂 so far, i have yet to be on the receiving and of anything malicious, although i take beyond normal precautions in protecting my identity and accounts. it helps that the hubster is a well paid pro-geek. i should be careful though and not count my chix before they hatch.

        i struggle on a daily basis whether *this* will be the day i vacate huffpost. the only thing that keeps me there is many years of good conversations with fellow posters, as well as a couple of long term writers there who invited me in the first place.

        i detest the way it has deteriorated since hooking up with aol. i am also very sorry to hear that you have had to deal with any personal grief for merely posting your views.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        looney – if you get a chance, can you drop me a line at ? purdy please?

        anyone else is welcome as well 🙂

      • looneydoone says:

        check your e-mail

  27. and I just finished reading the whole 43 pages.
    it’s the same song and dance in which Ben Crump made a bad recording of an unknown ( and unneeded) witness to what was already determined to be a SYG killing according to the Sanford police and gz!
    Ben Crump done went and made this whole case all complicated and messed up gz’s chances of hero-ism and now he needs to pay, damnit!!

    but I liked the part that they need to question Ben even more now because they’ve determined DD wasn’t even that close to Trayvon since she didn’t attend his funeral. so of course that would lead any reasonable person (lol) to believe that she must not of been on the phone with him either! LOL

    poor matter what he dreams up he just can’t make this nightmare go away!

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Don’t forget that the dead cell phone defense is still circulating! Therefore W8 could never have talked to Trayvon in the minutes before his death, oh my.

      Ugh, the writ is simply more drama for the paying supporters, whose heads I hope are beginning to crack open to the light.

      • lurker says:

        Ah–is that why (dead phone) they are convinced that there was no call from the “heart phone” to anyone, let alone Deedee? Thanks for clearing that up. Laying in the grass in the rain, not to mention time elapsed between pickiing it up and SPD attempting to get into it for info couldn’t possibly have had anything to do with it now, could it?

    • Trained Observer says:

      Ben Crump done went and created a whole mess of trouble for Fogen. As my grandma used to say: “This is a fine kettle of fish.”

    • Xena says:


      but I liked the part that they need to question Ben even more now because they’ve determined DD wasn’t even that close to Trayvon since she didn’t attend his funeral. so of course that would lead any reasonable person (lol) to believe that she must not of been on the phone with him either! LOL

      O’Mara is a lawyer and should know that he cannot raise arguments for the first time on appeal. IIRC, he did not raise that argument in his motion to compel, nor his motion for reconsideration. His Writ fails to show the Appellate Court how the lower court erred.

      • His Writ fails to show the Appellate Court how the lower court erred.

        Yes, and that’s a fatal mitake.

        • Xena says:


          Yes, and that’s a fatal mitake.

          THANK YOU!!!

          • As you also mentioned, another fatal mistake is the failure to show irreparable harm.

            These guys are not good lawyers.

            I wonder if Blackwell and the State Attorney Appellate Division will bother to respond.

          • Xena says:


            These guys are not good lawyers.

            They’re not good paralegals either.

            I wonder if Blackwell and the State Attorney Appellate Division will bother to respond.

            Today, I read the Florida Rules for Appellate Procedure cited by O’Mara in the Writ. (9.100) If the Appellate Court grants the Writ, it sets a time for opposing parties to file a brief, so I don’t think that Blackwell and the State will file anything unless the Appellate Court grants the Writ and sets a date.

      • ay2z says:

        But…but… your honors three, our most esteemed panelists of the 5th District… THAT point should be so obvious that we, being the most considerate lawyers of highest professional and media regard, do not wish to squander your good reading time, so we addressed instead, only the most critical points of emphasis.

        We humbly implore you to consider this writ with haste and as efficiently of time as possible as we make every effort to be ready for trial on June 10 2015. Please do not feel pressured to squander time reading Bernie de la Rionda’s odes ‘n quotes that will, we argue, have no merit.

        “A defence! A defense…. our reputations for a defense!!”

        • fauxmccoy says:

          @ay2Z says

          “A defence! A defense…. our reputations for a defense!!”

          nice quote, considering ole dicky the third’s bones were just located and ID’d. as a side note, i drive my 12 year old and 3 other girls to the shakespeare festival in ashland in a couple of weeks. i wish to see a production of richard the III, but will gladly accept whatever production we are seeing.

          • Haven’t been but know people who have attended the festival. You’re in for a treat.

            Wonder if BDLR has seen it?

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @professor — yes, it is a treat! i had the fortune of attending with after my high school senior year with my then boyfriend’s family. ashland is lovely, the whole festival is delightful and the drive is not overly demanding. (the most difficult part will be sharing a hotel bathroom with 3 12 year old girls, i am sure) i am very much looking forward to it and delighted that at least one of my daughters can appreciate ole billyS as my honors english instructor called him 🙂

      • Xena you caught me! ok I’ll be honest ( unlike markO) he didn’t actually say that DD didn’t like Trayvon enough to be on the phone with him, much less to attend his funeral. I was just making up something new for them…

        no in this one he’s still saying that Ben colluded with Tracy and Sybrina to witness tamper by coaching DD into making up lies about what she heard.

        oh and omar says that Ben cannot speak to the media about his own opinions about what happened to Trayvon. but because he already did, he needs to be forced to answer to omar and explain himself In detail!
        oh, and then he can STFU!
        I swear that’s what he really said, honest!! LOLOL

        • Xena says:

          @Shannon. LOL!! Okay, but there are still arguments in the Writ that were not made in the motion to compel, nor the motion for reconsideration.

          And — (very important) O’Mara alleges that unless he is allowed to depose attorney Crump, that GZ will suffer irreparable harm, BUT he fails to argue why and how. It appears that O’Mara threw in that allegation because it’s the only reason the Appellate Court will hear an appeal to a discovery order.

          • He can wish for and repeatedly chant irreparable harm from now until the Sun goes supernova and burns the Earth into a cinder and he will still not be able to show why that is so.

      • Jun says:


        Yes I notice that too

        Omara, Joonyah, and the rest of the Fogen gang members make claims and allegations with no backing or reasoning for that belief

        It is much like their other chants of

        “It is not a fair trial”

        “DD 16, 17, 18”

        “Vicious assault”

        “Witness 6 MMA mount”

        “Good cause exists for Twitter”

        I personally still do not know how not deposing Crump causes irreparable harm or how Bernie objected to the witnesses being filmed and having it heard before a court broke any rules, when it is written that either party or even the deponent can object, upon the deposition, as to the manner it is done

        It sounds like Omara would do himself a good favor to ask permission of others before going ahead with anything and save himself and Fogen heartache but hey, I am just being reasonable LOL

        Sometimes people say No, he needs to move on

      • Jun says:

        Yes Joonyah is the same way

        No one is allowed to say anything about Fogen unless he gives it a green light LMAO

        Good luck with that LOL

        Even in countries where they try to oppress people not to speak, people still get up and yell and shout what they want to say

        Look at Sharia countries… they do not allow women to express themselves and women risked their lives to speak by going around topless and telling the Sharia officials “fuck your morals”… it was enjoyable too because the women were pretty so nice tittays LOL

      • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

        I think that in the defense motion for reconsideration and clarification of the court order dated March 4 is where O’Mara first mentions his “new evidence”, which was that W8 lied about going to the hospital and that ABC had a partial recording of Crump and W8 that was not on The recording of W8 that Crump had. (The Tara find lol) 😉 So, they think that they have proof that Crump lied in his affidavit and that somehow means the court should reconsider and allow him to now be deposed, yet they still failed to show cause because they can get any and all information through other means by deposing the “listed witness” present during the interview, which is W8, which they had not yet done at the time of this motion.

        I believe these were the reasons given for why they wanted the motion to be reconsidered. That and that they do not agree that Crump is opposing councel.

        In their petition of writ, they are using the exact same reasons, but they deliberately omit W6’s retracted statement, which is deceiving the Fifth District Court of Appeals.

        Can anyone tell me why the defense keeps repeating that Crump have waived his privilege rights and work product by going on nation television and talking? I don’t understand what it has to do with anything or how that would waive his privilege rights.

      • Jun says:

        Omara I think is talking out his ass, otherwise, all his conversations with Fogen would also be subject to deposition, since he is media whore number 2, just behind Joonyah

        It’s work product and Crump is opposing counsel

        The appellate court can make a decision but they would still have to grant Crump the right to speak his side, because if you only hear the Omara side, you do not get the whole story and it is misrepresented

      • ChrisNY~Laurie says:


        And didn’t Judge Nelson say something like that in court when West was going on about Crump going on TV? She said something about all attorneys that go on TV..darn I can’t remember what she said….

      • LeaNder says:

        Xena, I think they argue that Nelson did not specifically address their waiving-by-going-public theory. She “waved” it away during the hearing though. Which is the core column of their argument it seems. Nelson did not address that, so they need a higher decision.

        Jeralyn seems to support that. Which strictly suggests to me, they have only this not quite convincing tool available. I admit it is some type of obsession by now:

        My opinion: Crump has been burning both ends of the candle for far too long. It’s time for the court to snuff out the flame on one end. If he wants to play investigator, share his results with the public, and make grand public announcements that state officers and officials have lied, and George Zimmerman is guilty of cold-blooded murder, he shouldn’t be allowed to play hide and go seek when asked to provide information as to the reliability of his claims. He made the decision to go public with his dubious claims, which were relied on by the state in filing charges against Zimmerman. He filed an affidavit, parts of which are either mistakenly or intentionally inaccurate. Whatever privilege he might have had as to Witness 8 by virtue of his representing the Martin family had he not gone public, should be deemed waived. He has made himself a witness, and neither the attorney-client nor work-product privilege should protect him.

        No concern that DeeDee and his privileges concerning his clients are deeply related, also that the media strategy clearly was in the interest of the family, and was chosen out ,mistrust against SPD and/or Wolfinger’s office. Who of us can tell if they wouldn’t have simply tried to bury the story? But exactly that is at the center of their attention. Were interestingly they completely ignore conveniently the whole media knowledge concerning the genesis of the story. The cell phone records are no where to be found in either writ or appendix.

        Interestingly this “left” lawyer (TalkLeft) completely supports the political argument, I know these type of superlatives only from her referrals to Diwataman’s expertise so far.

        There is a terrific summary of Crump’s involvement in the petition’s section on public policy arguments in favor of taking Crump’s deposition. Rather than rephrase it, I’ll just reprint this part:

        Back to the waiving by going public theory, there seems an enormous double standard involved, so enormous in fact that I find it hard to grasp.

        Nelson said during the hearing. Both parties do it. Some here did not like it, since BDLR cannot do it the way O’Mara does. But strictly I think not least since she dealt with matters before, she may well include Crump on the side of defense, they same way Blackwell does in his argument.

        Bottomline: These attempts feel deeply undemocratic to me. I serioulsy doubt that none of them O’Mara, West, Merritt never had to deal with a suspicion of some type of police cover up. For what reason should the officers concerned be all automatically witnesses according to category A otherwise?

        sorry, I know I promised to give up this obsession several times by now. I simply can’t help. 😉

      • LeaNder says:

        We humbly implore you to consider this writ with haste and as efficiently of time as possible as we make every effort to be ready for trial on June 10 2015.

        I strictly like that, but I also wonder if there is not a double intention connected with this writ. Meaning, look we had to go to the appellate court, YOU, since our efforts were hindered in crucial matters from day one. Thus it may be wise if they would add a sentence or two that these matters are not crucial and do not justify a postponement or later continuance tools.

        Which would be my ideal scenario, admittedly.

    • lurker says:

      I have read that–Deedee couldn’t even have been that close because she didn’t go to the funeral–meme before. Still surprised to see O’Mara citing it. Doesn’t matter if Deedee was a wrong number. She was still the last person other than the accused to hear from Trayvon.

      • Tzar says:

        A non-sequitur logical fallacy is unacceptable coming from an individual supposedly trained in the arts of logic and argumentation.
        I surmise that this is simply a tactic to bait Nelson into a recusable statement. I hope the appeals court takes him to task for it.

      • Two sides to a story says:


    • Jun says:

      IMO, if I was the appellate court, I would be sick of the dodo bird and his latchkey puppy, and just deny even listening to it

      I think whatever the appellate decides, the state and Crump should get a chance to object and state their side and they should bring up how Omara is lying in all his motions to the appellate, just like his recuse Lester motion, such as using recanted statements and also the fact Omara is selectively presenting evidence, which is tampering with evidence, and a perversion of justice

      If you are so confident, than why not let all the evidence in and have a reasonable debate on culpability? An honest debate looks at all factors, not just selective edits of recanted statements

      But that is just me, and I live in a world of logic and reason

      Crump should mention that the court found that there was probable cause to believe a murder took place, and all evidence will be heard at trial and all the suits Crump plans on bringing onto, and he is the victim’s family lawyer, so obviously he is opposing counsel

      Then Crump should bring up the difference between a wake and a funeral, and that she is a regular person that speaks with Trayvon repeatedly, and the phone records show it, and all other issues will be brought out at the murder trial

      Crump should also bring up that Omara lied and plotted with the defendant to defraud the court and show the jailhouse recordings and that it was a material issue

      The age of 16 or 18 or whatever, is not even material, but the chance is 95% that it was a miscommunication

      • ic2fools says:

        This is beginning to look more O’mara has a personal vendetta against Ben Crump. O’mara is intent on proving Crump made up DD regardless the phone records prove differently. He is desperate to save face using the wrong information from CTH about DD, big fail on O’maras’ part. I strongly believe this too will be denied.

      • Tzar says:

        Then Crump should bring up the difference between a wake and a funeral,

        I disagree, that would give O’Mara’s horse shit nonsense more dignity than it deserves.

      • Xena says:

        @Jun. Actually, all that Blackwell and the Florida AG have to do is show the Appellate Court that Judge Nelson did not err in her decision, and they can use the first order for their support. Then, they need to show the Appellate Court that O’Mara’s motion for reconsideration lacked the requirements as it raised no argument of new evidence or evidence that the lower court did not previously consider that would justify changing the court’s order on the motion to compel.

      • Jun says:

        Yeah perhaps there is too much dignity for horse manure

    • Malisha says:

      No legal error.
      No basis for certiorari.
      No irreparable harm; no harm whatsoever.
      An interlocutory appeal that is frivolous in the extreme.
      Shoddy work, too.

  28. kenteoth says:

    And I bet he wished that he kept Judge Lester as well…….

    • Yep.

      That motion to recuse was a dumb move.

      • JustMe says:

        Professor, when a defense attorney lies and states something false (wit #6) in their appeal how is that handled? Does BDLR answer to MOM’s writ to the higher court?

    • GZ supporters continue to say that it doesn’t matter if the judge gets irritated with an attorney, but I beg to differ. It is NEVER a good idea to make the judge angry, regardless of the case. It is equally not a good idea to irritate the higher courts.

      This is akin to a student going over teachers’ heads and going straight to the principal because teachers won’t allow something.

      Sure, teachers handle situations objectively with students concerning grades and so on, but they also make subjective decisions daily. Some of those subjective decisions could prove not to be to the student’s liking. Perhaps the students needs more time to complete an assignment. Accommodations are more likely from authority figures who feel respected.

      Not only would the teachers become irritated, but the principal will get enough of this as well.

      Just like teachers, judges make clear-cut objective decisions constantly, but they are also required to make subjective calls. As long as these calls can be justified by law, there is nothing that the attorney can do about it except to continue the appeal process.

      I am sure that the higher courts, just like the principal in this analogy, will get sick of these kinds of tactics after a while. I am sure that the higher courts are also kicking themselves for allowing O’Mara’s last writ request.

      This is a demonstration of human nature: We are allowed to get away with actions, which cause us to push the envelope to see what else we can try. The more we are successful, the more we will try something more.

      The higher courts need to put an end to this silliness!

      • Malisha says:

        This judge is not going to make rulings based on her irritation with the attorneys. And she’s not going to be recused. And she’s going to keep this case on track and do a good job of it. Dahn da dahn dahnnnnnn…

      • LeaNder says:

        Diary, I love you name, but while it is long ago now, my problem was that I got into trouble with our principal so the only way open would have been the court. I seriously doubt a teacher can be compared to a judge, I also doubt that every teacher makes “clear-cut objective decisions”. We are humans.

        My headmaster got furious about me when I started to look into the city archives and the documents about the school under the Nazis era. He was informed about it, and I was forbidden to ever enter the city archives again.

        Does it sound like a clear-cut objective decision that the principal then orders every single one of your teachers in the the diverse field to downgrade you? He didn’t give an objective reason, he simply ordered it. My math and physics teacher informed me about the decision and my arts teacher resigned when he was forced to give me a B instead of an A. I got the B anyway in my annual report. Does that sound objective to you?

        Sorry, I couldn’t help. Generalizations don’t work. The huge difference between the judge as a human being and the teacher is that the judge has to rely much more rigidly on laws than a teacher usually has to.

  29. kenteoth says:

    They only put that into the system as another thoughtless tactic to attempt to make Trayvon out to be the aggressor which will fail. Once someone recants their statement it is a lie and will not be used in court. Additionally, Dee Dee and Crump are not on trial, fogen is and everything that he has done has backfired. I noticed no one on the defense team has bragged about how much money they have gotten from their defense fund lately and the defense forgets that they have already tried to have a media trial and that failed. If they think that Judge Nelson will allow this to be a three ring circus they are in for a rude awakening. I bet now fogen wished he had simply followed the dispatch’s instructions and not follow (stalk) Trayvon he would not be waiting for a trial……at least for this murder…….

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