Using motions to disclose information in depositions is a sleazy tactic

Wednesday, April 3, 2013

Good morning.

I believe that we have completed our analysis and discussion regarding whether the use of doxing and breitbarting to intimidate and assassinate a person’s character constitutes witness intimidation, if used to discredit and intimidate a witness in a murder case.

The clear answer is “Yes.”

Moreover, I believe the two efforts by the defendant’s supporters to discredit and intimidate Dee Dee, which successively targeted two innocent girls named Dee Dee, constituted at the very least criminal attempts to intimidate a witness.

Since the perpetrators proudly declared their intent to intimidate the real Dee Dee when they mistakenly went after the wrong Dee Dees, and there is no doubt that the real Dee Dee found out about and was intimidated by those efforts, which were reported by the media, I believe the perpetrators already have committed at least two completed offenses of witness tampering.

I say “at least two,” because each lie, misrepresentation or threat is a completed crime. For example, 10 lies, misrepresentations or threats targeted against one witness constitutes 10 separate crimes or counts of witness intimidation.

Needless to say that the people who have committed these crimes are in deep trouble, even if they only get charged with attempted witness intimidation.

Are they stupid enough to continue their search for the right Dee Dee?

Only time will tell.

They have failed to demonstrate even a scintilla of intelligence, so I recommend against betting the ranch that they will stop.

By endorsing the CTH as a legitimate website and source of helpful information and ideas to use in defending GZ, Mark O’Mara has only himself to blame if the public associates him with the unlawful efforts to intimidate Dee Dee.

* * * *

Now, I want to take a look at O’Mara’s use of motions to disclose information that should not be disclosed.

Xena raised this issue yesterday when she asked me if depositions are supposed to be released to the public.

I replied that the answer is “No.”

She responded,

Thank you. O’Mara did manage to get in parts of one — IIRC, Santiago, that he included as an Exhibit with a Motion.

I believe O’Mara has been deliberately publicizing information, which he knows should not be publicized, by appending it to a marginally appropriate motion that he creates to serve as a vehicle to publicize the information in a manner that provides him with plausible deniability.

In other words, he has not been filing these motions in good faith.

He then incorporates the publicized information into his propaganda campaign to win the case in the court of public opinion.

For example, despite knowing that a police officer’s opinion regarding the defendant’s guilt or innocence is inadmissible at trial, he publicized Santiago’s deposition to support his propaganda claim that the Sanford Police Department believed the defendant killed Trayvon in self-defense.

Fortunately, BDLR quickly shut him down in court when he handed him Serino’s three or four drafts of the Capias request in which Serino considered charging the defendant with murder or manslaughter and ultimately settled on manslaughter.

I think it’s pretty clear that O’Mara was attempting to create and exploit a difference of opinion regarding the defendant’s innocence between the local SA and hometown police department versus the Jacksonville SA and the FDLE. I think he hoped to hijack and derail the jury inquiry into an are-you-going-to-trust-and-believe-your-hometown-law-enforcement-officials or the outsiders that the governor was forced to select for political reasons unrelated to what actually happened.

Notice that despite not mentioning race, that particular strategy is all about exploiting racism. The argument is little more than a transparent dress concealing a bloated and maggot infested corpse.

This is a good example of what lawyers mean when they refer to “playing the race card.”

I have to admit that I am fantasizing that there will come a day when O’Mara schedules a press conference and no one shows up.

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135 Responses to Using motions to disclose information in depositions is a sleazy tactic

  1. colin black says:

    Im very much a passafist…
    But for certain persons Id make an exception.

    An foggagge is such a person Id very much like to pass a fist right to the back o his skull.

  2. Malisha says:

    Crane, for you:
    Check it out on YouTube, if you like.

    “Dancing of the Cranes” in Sweden.
    It sounds like “Occupy Stockholm”!

  3. Jen says:

    In reading about the case of George Stinney, the youngest person executed in America in the last 100 years , I can’t help but see the parallel’s to Trayvon Martin. It was all too easy for racist whites to believe that this 90 lb 14-year-old brutally murdered and raped two white girls. There was no written confession, no evidence linking him to the murders at all…yet he was executed. It is no question to me that the same people who so blindly accept Fogen’s account of what happened that night are cute from the same cloth as the racist mob who saw nothing but a vicious and violent criminal in George Stinney. It is because of cases like Stinney’s that many people demand justice for Trayvon. We haven’t forgotten the recent history of racism in this country. As the Fogen case shows, many people in America STILL have no problem believing that black males are inherently violent and blood-thirsty savages who will murder someone with their bare hands without any provocation.

    Read more about George Stinney:

    • ladystclaire says:

      @Jun, I read the book “Carolina Skeletons” and, I also saw the movie about this case. the way AA were treated back then, is not much better today in the fact that some whites will always see them in a bad light. they do this because this is how they were raised to see them, by generations of their family.

      What the state of South Carolina did to that child, was not right as well as being shameful. if I were from that state, I would most certainly be ashamed to claim it as my home state. what they did was just terrible as well as wrong.

  4. Hey, everyone!

    Look at this. I loathe these people. It’s from Diwataman’s blog. They’re hoping to get a racist bigot on the jury. I am so tired of this hate. They want GZ to get away with murdering a kid simply b/c he was black.

    I am concerned about Voir Dire in this case, Casey had 12 jurors, GZ will have 6, I pray MOM/West have a jury consultant in this case. OJ’s jury had 9 black, 2 white, and 1 Hispanic, depending on the racial division in this case, it may play for a hung jury.

    • Rachael says:

      What an Effing AH!!! That’s all it is to him. He doesn’t care about someone who can be fair and honest, he just ohhh – I have to get out of here for a while. I can’t take this crap.

    • Jun says:

      It’s incredible the excuses people will come up with to try to justify killing a teenage kid or the rather tinfoil hat theories

      It seems to be a blame everyone except the killer attitude

      There’s something truly wrong with those folks

      It’s not enough that they had their guy stalk, terrorize and murder a kid, they have to get more

      The Ezekiel 25:17 truly fits here as we are beset on all sides by the tyranny and selfishness of evil men

      I also do not get how even a racist juror would help the defendant, considering, he claims to be black now LOL

      Too bad for them, we outnumber them LMAO

    • ladystclaire says:

      @SG2, Trayvon’s skin color is the only reason they are supporting Fogen. they even overlook the fact that he is Latino and, a full blooded Latino at that.

      • Xena says:


        Trayvon’s skin color is the only reason they are supporting Fogen.

        It’s deeper than that. If they truly supported GZ, he would not have to consistently beg. He would not have need to look for housing while out on bail, and someone supporting him would have given him a job.

        Bottom line — racial bigots believe that Blacks have too much power; too much courage; too much freedom; too much intelligence to exercise the aforementioned.

        When unarmed Mark Anthony Barmore was shot 3 times in the back by police officers, in the daycare center at a church, in front of staff and children, citizens held meetings, marched peacefully, met with authorities to demand an investigation.

        It wasn’t until Rev. Jackson came to town that White bigots showed their real hearts. One personally asked me, “Why do they have to bring in outsiders?” Well, because the old boys club in town ignored local folks. They were sweeping it under the rug.

        Here, we have a situation where people, young and old, White, Black and otherwise came together, advocating for investigation and arrest of GZ. It extended outside of Seminole County Florida. For racial bigots, that’s too much power for Trayvon’s parents to have. Bigots believe that Trayvon’s parents should have shuffled along and accepted whatever the good old boys in Sanford told them.

      • towerflower says:

        He’s only half Latino, his father is still white. They only try to make it sound like he his nothing but Afro-Peruvian.

      • cielo62 says:

        Ladystclaire- Latino is a CULTURE. White is a RACE. They are NOT mutually exclusive. You can be both! I am a white Latina! GZ is a white Hispanic.

        Sent from my iPod

    • Tzar says:

      but george is afro-peruvian though….

      • ladystclaire says:

        Well I’ll narrow it down this way, he is who gives a damn about his race, he committed the murder of a child, and I think it’s very shameful as well as disgraceful that there are whites in this country who see nothing wrong with what he did,

        @Xena, I really do understand what you are saying and it’s all true. some people still think AA should have never been educated, and some of those same people don’t like it because, some AA are more educated than they are. the family of Trayvon Martin needed help and, they got it and, this is why those who support Fogen can’t stand Benjamin Crump.

        What pray tell would these people do, if the shoe were on the other foot, meaning theirs. they need not think that this couldn’t happen to them, just because they are white because it can. the ”SPD tried to cover up this murder and, they almost got away with it if it had not been for the family’s mistrust in the local yokels on the SPD. the head yokel Bill Lee, REFUSED to release the NEN tape to the family and, it took the mayor going over his head to get it released. I know that mayor is ashamed of what his police chief tried to pull, with a lot of help from Norm Wolfinger.

        Besides, some of these racist thugs had better be figuring out how they are going to get out of their own criminal charges, that are coming down the pike.

        • Tzar says:

          hey are we sure the NEN call is not doctored?

          • onlyiamunitron says:

            “hey are we sure the NEN call is not doctored?”

            Well, that would be one way to account for the discrepancy between it and Zimmerman’s later statements, but you’d think that while they were at it, they’d doctor his voice so that he doesn’t sound like he’s about to say “Dave’s not here”.

            : – )


          • Tzar says:

            thank you for your thoughts

        • Xena says:


          the family of Trayvon Martin needed help and, they got it and, this is why those who support Fogen can’t stand Benjamin Crump

          History from the 1960’s tell us that each time a minority stood up for justice, he was murdered. With justice capturing, trying and sentencing those who commit such murders, bigoted racists have a new agenda which they believe keeps them safe from criminal prosecution. If they can’t take a person’s life, they simply threaten to destroy it, and allege that such threats are freedom of speech.

          Having no power and authority to destroy attorney Crump, they provoke someone else to do their dirty work under color and claim of operating as legal defense. In this matter, it’s O’Mara and West.

  5. I just simply hate the way they treat people who support Trayvon like we’re stupid. What gets me is there is too much obvious information that shows this was a malicious crime and we have people on the news who wont discuss the facts but instead discuss the emotion as if to say that people who support Trayvon Martin are too emotionally biased to examine or accept the facts.

    • Rachael says:

      I don’t really care how they treat me – or even others who support Trayvon. I HATE how they talk about and treat him and his parents though. The things they have said, the things I have heard, human beings do not act that way or talk that way. They are not human.

      • Malisha says:

        Unfortunately, they ARE human. They are the humans who have made our shameful history what it IS. They are the humans who blame the victims. They are the humans who lie to gain advantage over others. They are the humans who pervert our governments (federal, state and local) with corruption. They are the governments who TOLERATE that kind of corruption and injustice if it benefits THEM and theirs. They are the kind of humans who gain power in Virginia, in Florida, in Texas, and in other states, to use rhetoric rather than facts to distort the information we have about our own social structure and the welfare of the American people in general. They are humans who lie, cheat and steal, who blame landlords for needing to collect rent, who blame kids for walking in the rain, because all these activities on the part of their victims give them, according to their own bullying behavior, “excuses” to hurt, insult, damage, injure and kill.

    • SoulSistaWoo says:

      Leroy Eugene Hudson says:
      April 3, 2013 at 8:36 pm
      I just simply hate the way they treat people who support Trayvon like we’re stupid. What gets me is there is too much obvious information that shows this was a malicious crime and we have people on the news who wont discuss the facts but instead discuss the emotion as if to say that people who support Trayvon Martin are too emotionally biased to examine or accept the facts.

      I have noticed that too and Zimbots and the media can insinuate this, while at the same time displaying thier ignorance of the case and the evidence.

      But of course, we are to busy being emotional to be logical enough to notice this.

  6. kllypyn says:

    I am tired of, people saying a 208 pound former bouncer with a history of violence was screaming for help while a kid who weighed 158lbs soaking wet armed with nothing but candy and a drink would say nothing. Every time i go to work and see teenagers waiting for the school bus and they are shouting at each other i think of trayvon.every time i walk past a park and see teenagers playing ball and they are shouting at each other i think of trayvon. I’ve heard those screams. Trayvon wasn’t just screaming,he was crying. A teenage boy cries like that for 2 reasons he’s injured and in severe pain or he is terrified. TRAYVON WAS TERRIFIED.He was literally begging this dirt bag for his life. all the while he was being interrogated and terrorized. George Zimmerman was not the one saying,I’M BEGGING YOU!!! George zimmerman was not the one saying GET OFF!!! George Zimmerman was not the one saying HELP ME!!! George Zimmerman was not the one saying “I DON’T KNOW!!! I DON’T KNOW!! George Zimmerman was not the one saying NO DON’T HELP!! George Zimmerman was not the one saying NOOO!! HELP before the shot. I’m sick of their bull@##$%
    Trayvon would have went back home to Miami on the 27th he was looking forward to it because he missed his mother. Instead he went home in a box. Zimmerman has lied from day one he knows who was screaming he looked Trayvon dead in his face he saw his fear and panic and he killed him anyway. He like to, portray himself as some kind of tough guy,a real tough guy will not kill a 17 year old kid while he begs for his life. He is nothing but a punk and a bully. All he has ever done was bully people. unless they were stronger than him. I bet he was the school bully. he should have left trayvon alone. He brought this on himself.with a little help from his sick o family because they have always enabled him instead of letting him take his lumps like a man they always got him out of trouble even going so far as to lie for him. that’s why he thought this would blow over which it probably would have if Tracy and Sybrina hadn’t put up as fuss. I don’t know how they manage to hold it together. No father should have to look at a photo of his dead son lying in someone backyard eyes open a trickle of blood coming from his mouth. No mother should get a call no ,parent wants just as she arrives at work. No parent should have to hear their child as he screams in terror and panic. Or hear those screams stop abruptly with a gun shot. They heard their son die. No parent should have to hear that. On top of that tragedy they have had to endure the lies about their son and themselves They’ve had to endure the lies of the murderers family. Stephen Trayvon’s cousin was accused of being racist because he called Zimmerman cracker. He and Trayvon were very close.He was devastated by Trayvon’s death he reacted in anger and grief he was not referring to white people in general. No family deserves to be picked on like the Martin/Fulton family has been. I’m sick of certain media outlets treating the Zimmermans like they are the victims.If Zimmerman had minded his own business and let a 17 year old be he wouldn’t be called a murderer. Trayvon was just a kid he was 3 weeks into his 17th year when he was stalked pursued and eventually killed. He should have kept his fat @&& in his damned truck. K.D.P.

    • @kllypyn


      I can’t begin to tell you how much it hurts. It’s almost too much to bear. My soul weeps. No parent should have to go through this. **tears**

    • Rachael says:

      He went to stay with his dad and came home in a box. As a mom, I can’t take it. I just can’t take it.

    • Listen closely to TM saying the last “help me” right before the shot. Right before he says that you can barely hear a voice that says “help me” that sounds exactly like GZ. GZ said that to somebody that was there and it would seem that TM was saying help me like he was trying to tell that same person to help him instead of GZ. That alone should get him a conviction from the most biased of jurors.

      I believe the reason why the sounds got closer to Jeremy’s home was because that was the only lights TM saw in the darkness and saw people moving. I believe he was trying to get there for help but they just didn’t do that for him. I also suspect that GZ was either asking Jeremy or someone else for help and he needs to specify who that was.

      If GZ was the one saying “I dont know” then what was the question you were answering GZ? What? You dont remember? Just as I thought.

      • It just dawned on me that GZ oes a habit of on fusing truth into his statements. W6’s neighbor heard him say that he was going to call 911. In his walk-through, GZ said that a neighbor said that he was going to ball 911. GZ said he told the guy that he had already called the police and they were on their way, that he needed the neighbor to help him “with this guy.”

        IMO, that exchange happened at the crucial moment before the shooting of Trayvonn not after Trayvon was already shot. In other words, Jeremy said he was calling 911, as witnessed by another neighbor. GZ told him, “No…” …that police were on their way. Then he told Jeremy to help him with “…this guy.” I really believe that Jeremy has a great deal to answer to. Why has his testimony not been scrutinized because of its contradictions?

      • So sorry for the typos. This iPad thinks it knows what I want to say. Proof reading is very important.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        I think you are mixing up some of the statements.
        GZ was very aware that at least Selma and Mary saw him sitting on top of Trayvon and pushing down on Trayvon’s back with both his hands.
        Actually more witnesses saw GZ on top, but he interacted with Selma so we know for a fact that he was aware of her.

        Selma was outside until GZ got up, told her to just call 911. She said that he paced away from the body and back again and then proceeded to walk towards the T. W18 tells exactly the same story. W18 then says she saw Jonathan(w13) walking on the cut-through towards the T.

        W13 said he saw GZ standing on the side walk about 6 to 8 ft south of the T. The same spot as w18 said GZ was standing when W13 arrived. IIRC W13 said GZ was standing with his back towards him and he was talking on the phone. He then took the picture of the back of GZ’s head.

        W13 asked him if he should call 911, but GZ told him “no, I just got of the phone with them”.

        GZ’s bullshit story was put together in an attempt to explain why witnesses saw him on top of Trayvon seconds after the shot was fired.

      • Did the witness (13) actually say that GZ told him not to call, or were those GZ’s words? No witness confirmed that GZ said not to call the police but to help him with Trayvon.

        What I am saying is that was an exchange between W6 and GZ, and the business about “help me with this guy,” IMO, happened with W6, not W13.

        GZ has a way of infusing emements of fact with his stories.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        GZ claimed that this happened after he had shot Trayvon. That he was on top of Trayvon, trying to restrain him and spreading his hands to the side. According to GZ that was when the neighbor with the flashlight showed up and asked if he should call 911, and GZ claimed that he said ” no, i need help restraining this guy”.

        He mentions John(w6) looking outside earlier.

        Not that it matters, which witness he is lying about, unless he gets on the stand and BdlR gets the opportunity to chew him up and spit him out.

      • leander22 says:

        Did the witness (13) actually say that GZ told him not to call, or were those GZ’s words?

        witness 13, usually referred here as Jon, and the guy we have some photos of standing with some officers, actually asked him when he approached him if he should call police and GZ answered he had already called them.

        As far as I remember he never tells anything about GZ being on the phone when he approached him.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:


    • lurker says:

      The screams are what always do it to me.

    • rnewton32 says:

      I feel your frustration and pain too. I weep for Sabrina and Tracy. I look at my own son, even though he is only 7, with tears coming down my eyes and fear in my heart. My son asks me, “Mommy why are you so sad?” and I can’t give him the true answer. I know my Husband and I will have to have “that” conversation with him when he gets older and pray that God will take care of him when we are not there. I hope the prosecution’s closing statement is as powerful as your comment and touches the hearts of every person on that jury, and in that courtroom. I pray for justice for Trayvon, and everyone else who are the victims of violence.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        It’s just not fair, rnewton!

        I ache for you.

        I continue to try to think of and list all the examples that have resulted in my being born with “white privilege.”

        I was reading JLove Calderon’s book ” Occupying Privilege” at the doctor’s office yesterday. Because both the nurse and the doctor asked what I was reading, I was able to gently get them to begin thinking of the implication’s of white privilege.

        I keep people open to considering the subject by saying, “Because you did not ask for it at birth, you don’t need to feel guilt. However, by knowing about it and identifying instances of it, you can become active in helping to change things.”

        At the doctor’s office, I read them instances of it that were in a list of 26 in the book:

        4. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.
        10. Whether I use checks, credit cards, or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.
        12. I can swear, or dress in second-hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty, or the illiteracy of my race.
        14. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.
        15. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.
        19. If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven’t been singled out because of my race.
        22. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of race.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        I am so sorry rnewton. I don’t know what to say. I thought I understood something about racism and white priveledge, but since Trayvon’s murder and the election of president Obama I have come to realize I really knew nothing.

      • lurker says:

        You just reminded me of what landed on top of a good many parents of black sons. “That” conversation is one that I have had with a number of youth–not only my own children. Unless you have faced having to explain why their behavior has to be exemplary, better than all others, just in order to be safe in all circumstances, and to fear the judgment of strangers, you cannot understand what on earth President Obama was talking about when he said, “If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon.”

        • fauxmccoy says:

          lurker says

          you cannot understand what on earth President Obama was talking about when he said, “If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon.”

          you are right. i will never know that feeling, the closest i will get is teaching my teen daughters how to be safe and smart, but it is still not the same. be assured though that those of us who have evolved believe you when you tell us what it feels like. for myself, i did not learn about ‘the talk’ until i was well into my 20s and living in san francisco with a black friend who had teenagers. she confided to me that she had given ‘the talk’ and i was utterly clueless until she explained. she was very kind in the face of my ignorance and i am grateful for having had at least some peripheral involvement. as a human, i can empathize, be supportive and know that it is true, but that is as close as i can get.

          we also know that if obama had a son, he would look much like trayvon and that is just a simple truth with no ulterior motive from potus.

      • It’s so sad but that we have to sit down with our boys and have this “talk”. But it has to be done.

        • cielo62 says:

          Southern Girl- yep. It’s a sick world. To me , “the talk” was about sex and being careful. It wasn’t about survival.

          Sent from my iPod

      • ladystclaire says:

        The world is not sick, what is sick is some of the people in the world!

    • SoulSistaWoo says:

      I sometimes watch the show “First 48hrs.” and many many episodes take place in the Miami area… where there is lots violence, gang activity and murder in Miami, and I think about how Trayvon survived all of the that violence and murder and goes to
      Sanford, a relatively safe place, a place that does not have nearly the level of violence that Miami has, and is MURDERED.

      As a parent you are left BEWILDERED; how could this happen.

      • Trained Observer says:

        For survival in crime-laden Miami, Trayvon knew how to mind his own business. That wasn’t enough in serene Seminole County where supposedly respectable folks look the other way when a predator like Fogen starts stalking.

    • Judy75201 says:

      Great post!

    • Tzar says:

      This bothers you because you are normal

  7. Malisha says:

    HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! I want to see Jeralyn Merritt’s answer to DeWattaman telling him she supports him 100% and she will hop right on the case to get all those people their public apologies! And she’ll get anybody disbarred who tries to defend them, too!

    These folks really want MOST OF AMERICA to back the idea that if you decide to kill an unarmed Black kid you should be rewarded and if you are forced to wait for your reward, you should be canonized as a Saint and a Martyr! They will also start agitating for purple heart awards to go to anybody who is not immediately thanked and publicly lauded for good acts THEY say they did on the way to killing someone THEY thought suspicious. After all, the injury to their pride can hardly be imagined!

    God’s plan, God’s plan… 🙄

    • Two sides to a story says:


    • Jun says:

      LMAO good luck with that… if we were to go by democracy, it would be a landslide victory for equality

      hey, USA is democracy LMAO

    • CherokeeNative says:

      What they want from this case is a new legal standard that allows anyone with a gun to perceive someone of color as a significant threat and be able to take that person’s life with no chance of being held legally responsible. Given this, George must be convicted not only for Trayvon’s justice but to demonstrate to those who have the same mind set as George that they cannot murder a person they have approached and provoked without cause. It is an affront to all of us as an Americans regardless of our tribe.

      The arguments for equivalency between Zimmerman and Trayvon because Trayvon may have been moved to common, non-lethal assault after having been stalked for over 8+ minutes by vehicle and then on foot are subject to our full disregard and contempt. There is dishonesty in that false equivalency that goes to the heart of what went wrong and took Trayvon’s life.

      The Treepers in concert with O’Smeara and the Z family, have done everything in their power to thugify Trayvon in the media to generate cause for Zimmerman and justify the shooting. O’Smeara has skoured social media and school records in an attempt to find some negative evidence to be trotted out as a defense to encourage aquittal. This type of defense is disgusting.

      For those of us who believe in crime and punishment and individual responsibility understand that you ought to be able to walk in the rain and not answer the questions of a citizen’s watch vigilante or play a stereo too loud without being shot to death. Any ideology that rationalizes such an outcome isn’t worth spit.

      • Xena says:

        @CherokeeNative ((((((((APPLAUSE))))))))

      • Rachael says:

        ^ x 1 million.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Applause for your every single well-chosen word.

      • looneydoone says:

        mee gwetch, Cherokee Native
        (Thank you !)

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Great post!

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Hear hear!

      • Mike says:


      • SoulSistaWoo says:

        Excellent post CherokeeNative!

      • leander22 says:

        Yes, that’s it in a nutshell. The specific tribe we feet be part of or belong to doesn’t matter. Welcome back Cherokee.

      • Malisha says:

        Cherokee, this made me think of something that really gave me a boost. Even if Fogen is acquitted outright, something will be gone from his life FOREVER that was pretty close to the only thing he HAD: white privilege. Fogen is a person who had very little personal power. He was not particularly smart, not terribly handsome, he was the less-favored brother in his family and had a nasty sibling rivalry (educated guess), his family wasn’t rich or prestigious enough to really get him out of the “mediocre at best” category; he failed at many things, over and over; he had a low E.Q. (Esteem Quotient).

        What he DID have was white privilege.

        Now it is gone and it will be forever gone, never again attainable for him. Even if he finds himself free and legally untouchable, he will be back where he started before he killed Trayvon Martin: a self-important self-aggrandizing unattractive nobody. And all that white privilege will never attach to him again because of his stupid self-appointment as the executor of God’s Plan.

        Live the rest of your miserable life out without the “elevated platform,” you contemptible creature. That’s the BEST you can hope for. And even that is better than you deserve.

      • Tzar says:

        For those of us who believe in crime and punishment and individual responsibility understand that you ought to be able to walk in the rain and not answer the questions of a citizen’s watch vigilante or play a stereo too loud without being shot to death. Any ideology that rationalizes such an outcome isn’t worth spit.

        *slow clap*
        Before there was any discovery dumps, before there was witness 8 and 9, before there was a reenactment video and multiple contradictory statements, before any of that, I UNDERSTOOD THAT! and there was nothing anyone could say to divorce me from that notion.

    • @Malisha

      These folks really want MOST OF AMERICA to back the idea that if you decide to kill an unarmed Black kid you should be rewarded

      So true. I have never seen such hatefulness in all of my life. I mean these people are the epitome of hate. One of the CTH people ask where are the spirit of the 60’s? What does that tell you? A TreeHouse thug called me a “n” on Click Orlando. Like that is suppose to intimidate me? They are too far gone. O’Mara has danced with the devil in the pale moonlight.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        “O’Mara has danced with the devil in the pale moonlight.”

        One could imagine him dancing to his death, as in the story about the red shoes . . .

  8. fauxmccoy says:


  9. Two sides to a story says:

    This is a bit off topic – but have you checked out Diwataman’s latest proclamation? LMAO. Are these folks really high school students?

    anford Police Officers, specifically the three officers Detective Serino named that pressured him to file charges; Arthur Barns, Trekell Perkins and Rebecca Villalona, also any officers belonging to NOBEL(National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives) – Investigated for any misconduct resulting in the civil rights violation and right to a fair trial of George Zimmerman.

    Chief Bill Lee – Reinstated, public apology from City Manager Norton Bonaparte, apology to the public for running away like a coward and hiding under a rock.

    Norman Wolfinger – Disbarred and public apology for giving up the case, running away like a coward and hiding under a rock.

    Norton Bonaparte – Ousted from office, public apology and, from his personal account, return of tax payer funds used to support “Justice for Trayvon” rallies.

    Jeff Triplett – Ousted from office for being a coward. . .

    See more at

    • fauxmccoy says:

      could it be any more obvious that ‘white makes right’ and black is not ok?

      disgusting mind set there.

    • Jun says:

      tinfoil hats strike again

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      They are just as delusional as the republicans this last election. Who is going to play Karl Rove on the day the jury anounces the verdict?

    • Xena says:

      nvestigated for any misconduct resulting in the civil rights violation and right to a fair trial of George Zimmerman.

      No person in authority wearing a black robe has decided that GZ’s civil rights were violated. His trial has not taken place yet, so any decision that his rights to a fair trial have been violated would be prejudicial.

      It’s pure imagination — and wolf calls.

    • kllypyn says:

      i just gave him a piece of my mind. he needs it he apparently doesn’t have much of a mind.

      • Xena says:

        Hey!! White guy believes that GZ admits he is guilty of murdering Trayvon. Zidiots must be very disappointed that not all potential Whites chosen for the jury are racial bigots.

      • leander22 says:

        Xena, I had to read this twice to understand. But we all hat to look into the rules of criminal procedures lately and that did in fact help.

        In a nutshell: the proper motion for “Stand your Ground” immunity would be a “C4 motion”, and this motion has already been waived by defense, since it has to be filed before or during the arraignment, the only option defense has now is to file a motion based on 3190 (b):

        (c) Time for Moving to Dismiss. Unless the court grants further time, the defendant shall move to dismiss the indictment or information either before or at arraignment. The court in its discretion may permit the defendant to plead and thereafter to file a motion to dismiss at a time to be set by the court. Except for objections based on fundamental grounds, every ground for a motion to dismiss that is not presented by a motion to dismiss within the time herein above provided shall be considered waived. However, the court may at any time entertain a motion to dismiss on any of the following grounds:

        (1) The defendant is charged with an offense for which the defendant has been pardoned.

        (2) The defendant is charged with an offense for which the defendant previously has been placed in jeopardy.

        (3) The defendant is charged with an offense for which the defendant previously has been granted immunity.

        (4) There are no material disputed facts and the undisputed facts do not establish a prima facie case of guilt against the defendant.

        The facts on which the motion is based should be alleged specifically and the motion sworn to.

        (d) Traverse or Demurrer. The state may traverse or demur to a motion to dismiss that alleges factual matters. Factual matters alleged in a motion to dismiss under subdivision (c)(4) of this rule shall be considered admitted unless specifically denied by the state in the traverse. The court may receive evidence on any issue of fact necessary to the decision on the motion. A motion to dismiss under subdivision (c)(4) of this rule shall be denied if the state files a traverse that, with specificity, denies under oath the material fact or facts alleged in the motion to dismiss. The demurrer or traverse shall be filed a reasonable time before the hearing on the motion to dismiss.

        Now that could be the ultimate manipulative scenario O’Mara could use. Imagine the state would “deny under oath” the material facts presented by O’Mara. Outcry: A political conspiracy.

    • Jun says:

      Fogen’s a danger to the community. Who knows who he would target next. It is time for Fogen to pay the piper, or Fogen have his Gang Members do for him.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      No need to see more of that insanity and no, in high school they teach sufficient logic and reason to make one unable to formulate such trash. That work is the product of a 6th grade drop out. My guess is he’s suffering from a severe case of arrested development.

    • Malisha says:

      This “goes in the same direction as” (although technically it might not be following) Alan Dershowitz’s screaming fit about this case being prosecuted too vigorously. If you do not believe the shooter’s claim of self-defense, how vigorously SHOULD you prosecute someone who kills someone else with ill will? Dershowitz was actually saying that this killing should have been treated as a sort of “mini-killing.” Not a real BIG important killing. And why not, Honorable Dershowitz? Perhaps because the victim was not a really important victim? Perhaps because the victim was someone whose untimely death YOU can live with? Perhaps because the deceased’s decease was something you consider a kind of everyday excusable kind of death? How vigorously SHOULD the killing of this kid be prosecuted?

      According to the proFogenites, this killing should not have been prosecuted at all. That, in spite of the fact that the homicide detective investigating the case FROM THE FIRST DAY thought it should have been prosecuted as a Murder-2. Why do the proFogenites think it should not have been prosecuted? Because they think that “Trayvon Martin was a thug.” And they think killing someone THEY think of as a “thug” is OK as long as it’s done by a decent American.

      Hey Dersh, you’re in good company. HA HA HA HA HA!! I wonder what the average I.Q. of the ProFogenites is. Dersh belongs right in there with them.

  10. onlyiamunitron says:


    If O’Mara has been making public that which should not be made public by attaching it to motions, has the court slapped him down for it and I just didn’t hear about it, or have they left it unremarked, or have they just not realized that part of what was attached to motions should not have been?


    • leander22 says:

      Is this some “Proof it!” type of challenge, unitron?

      I may even be partly on your or bettykath side concerning O’Mara. To a certain extend it is his job. Somebody has to do it. On the other hand, he is quite good at insinuations. Like drug dealers that use more difficult codes like “watermelons” instead of 10 for 10.000. What about Peter Pan? Could that be compared to Watermelon? And why exactly watermelon? Strictly someone could research all his cases involving drugs and check if indeed such a code surfaced somewhere. And I surely hope someone will do one day, and study him more closely.

      Personally I feel that the suggestion that this is a purely political case, brought about by “race-baiters”, or whatever more polite term you prefer, can in itself be considered “race baiting”. For me it’s only a step away from the lady that was absolutely shocked that Trayvon’s parents could even hire a lawyer.

      My position is that no matter what “race” Trayvon was, given the larger scenario in a case like that should be carefully investigated.

      Besides if you restrict the rights of the black parents to know what happened to their son and why, while suggesting he obviously (see above insinuations) must have been one of a specific type of angry blacks who assaults whites simply going going about their own business, even threatens to kill them for no apparent reason, you raise the race card in people’s minds.

      Never mind the mistakes of Crump in the heat of the moment with pressure from the family/Tracy and without much knowledge but to follow their suspicion that something wasn’t quite right. I would be very, very surprised if there weren’t any. Using this type of mistakes to run, is pretty manipulative behavior in itself.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        leander – i have long proclaimed that anyone who uses the phrase ‘race baiting’ should change the phrase to ‘mentally mastur baiting’ and apply the term to themselves.

        yes, ‘race baiting’ is definitely ignorant code for ‘hey guys, i’m a racist!’.

    • leander22 says:

      And no, I have no idea, if it could be done ethically. The ideal scenario would be, if GZ would have followed Serino’s advice and made up (from my perspective) a slightly ambiguous response during the encounter with Trayvon: That Trayvon got completely wrong. Maybe they will try that road. But I doubt, if they still can. They have to “feed the rage”, they have no other option.

      “We are feeding the rage” was a statement by a Weekly Standard, I think it was, I may be wrong though, concerning his articles in the heat of the War of Terrorism.

    • You would have to ask Judge Nelson.

      I recognize the tactic because I have seen it used before and I do not respect lawyers who do that.

      To succeed in pulling it off, there must be a marginally legitimate purpose for the motion to serve as a cover to reveal information that should not be revealed.

      • ay2z says:

        ‘marginally legitimate’ as in a motion that doesn’t get denied once, but twice. It’s now about 3 weeks from another hearing date listed as ‘docket sounding’, will we expect to hear another version of same re-re-request? One might think the judge would clue in to the use of her courtroom for the less legitimate basis of sharing otherwise unpublishable evidence to the jury pool, and any re-regurgitating any other ‘bullet points’ they can mention in front of courtroom cameras.

        And if the judge does a smack down, how can she do that without being challenged by an unhappy client who wants her gone, or wants to use this as a delay mechanism?

        • I think she is doing a good job of saying “No.”

          I would sanction O’Mara for the frivolous motions that he filed last week.

          Whether she will remains to be seen.

          She probably won’t in order to prevent giving him the appearance of a basis upon which to file a motion to recuse.

      • gbrbsb says:

        Professor, perhaps it is only in the movies but can’s a judge call a private meeting in chambers with prosecution and defence to give a bolllocking to the lawyer/s who have done something out of order without making it public which in some cases would defeat the purpose as would give more publicity to what was not supposed to be disclosed in the first place? Just asking.

      • ay2z says:

        Good question, gbrbsb. And does the Judge have access to collegue resources, esp. their head judge, to consult if this becomes a move to oust her?

        What, if any, is the head judge’s role in any of this?

  11. ay2z says:

    docket update:

    04/01/2013 DOCKET SOUNDING [K] – DATE: 04/30/2013 – TIME: 0900AM – CTRM: 5D

  12. ay2z says:

    Waiting for the first token black lawyer, intern or support staff person, to show up at the table.

    • Xena says:

      Oh, that would be great. Then O’Mara and GZ can blame losing the case on the token. 🙂

      • ay2z says:

        There’s a reason they defense wanted to line up about 10 or so staff members in the gallery, on the defense side. If I reall, the judge ordered the ‘extra’s on both sides, to other rooms nearby.

  13. Malisha says:

    Well I’m shocked — SHOCKED — that anybody thinks an officer of the court would do something sleazy! What are we coming to?

  14. Trained Observer says:

    “Notice that despite not mentioning race, that particular strategy is all about exploiting racism. The argument is little more than a transparent dress concealing a bloated and maggot infested corpse.” — Frederick Leatherman

    Unappetizing as it seems, somewhere out there are six prospective stand-up jurors capable and willing to dig deep … to expose such exploitation during deliberations .. and to toss aside whatever shrouds the defendant’s motives. Once delivered, the guilty verdict will be there for all to see.

  15. CherokeeNative says:

    Back at you Xena. I don’t sign in…just surf and read. Can’t take too much of that filth before the eyes start burning. LOL

  16. CherokeeNative says:

    Curious Professor, wonder if that’s what this is referring to:

    sundance says:
    March 31, 2013 at 12:43 am
    I’m almost back in court over it – we are in the legal back and forth again 😦

    They know this will destroy their case. They made one huge mistake – they tried a coverup. Not all cops are corrupt – not even close.

    • Xena says:

      Hey CherokeeNative. I’ve not been over to Crime Watchers forum lately because it wants me to sign-in but rejects my handle that I registered with. Good to see you.

      • CherokeeNative says:

        Oops== My response below- I thought you were referring to CTH – shame on me. LOL I should clean my glasses. We closed the thread for a while because we had a troll that would not go away – 25-30 bogus names later, we may have lost him. It’s back open again. If you have problems, let me know and I will figure it out.

    • groans says:

      CherokeeNative, sorry if I’m dense, but I don’t understand your comment. Do you know, or have a theory about, who the “they” are?

      The March 31 date is interesting, because IIRC Sundance shut down the “open discussion” page about the killer not long before that. He wrote that he wouldn’t explain or discuss the reason(s) for doing so, and even told his minions (thanks, BDLR) that he wouldn’t respond to any emails asking about the reason(s).

    • Xena says:

      @CherokeeNative. Two things. Putting the pieces together, Sundance MIGHT be referring to his FOIA requests for any records regarding custody of Trayvon. He seems to think that if he can prove that neither of Trayvon’s parents had legal custody, that it will prove Trayvon deserved to die and the protests to arrest GZ were a smokescreen for money.

      Two, I was able to re-register at Crime Watchers, but it did not authorize me to post.

      • leander22 says:

        Xena, any idea what the intention to depose Trayvon’s ”stepmother”, apparently dropped, is about? I seem to remember she was interviewed by Dr. Phil along with the Osterman’s.

        Any idea? page 11, Exhibit B

      • leander22 says:

        I doubt she is on any state witness list whether A, B or C. Or is she? I have to check.

        Something else. On one of these exhibits they black out some names. But then somewhere else suggest that witness 7 and 24 (March 6, page 9) are both numbers for Chad, Brandy Brown’s son. A couple of days later they (March 11, page 13) change that again adding 7 and 25 and additionally 25’s parents. what is this all about. Is this a mistake 25 instead of 24? Are they honestly confused or are they trying to confuse?

  17. William Walton says:

    Prof: I agree with you. I will argue scientific facts with you all day, but will not argue or speculate on legal facts since I know nothing about them. My opinion is that this blog is to seek justice for Trayvon Martin. In so doing, I feel the blog should bring relivance to the fact that GZ profiled TM, shot, and killed him. I do not look at the other Blogs as I can read here that they are bullshitl I think those participating in this Blog should concentrate on only bringing to light those facts which will help in the conviction of GZ. I must admit, I have learned from you with regards to the legal array of the world. Much of which I did not know.

  18. Jun says:

    In all honesty, Omara twists everything from what was actually stated

    The officers were never in a statement where they were totally against indicting the defendant

    The officers deposed simply stated that they felt there was not enough to move forward yet and they were still continuing investigations

    To continue an investigation is obvious that there is belief of murder by a suspect and it is fairly obvious the defendant is “the guy” that did it

    It is the same as when he claimed the state was avoiding giving him discovery regarding the cellphone and it turned out he was invited to see the forensics done on the cellphone

    It is the same with the medical records of witness 8

    Her medical records are not relevant and I do not get why the state simply did not restrict that disclosure of her medical records but what is done is done

    They were told that there were no records and they were told since about August of last year to depose her and find out from the witness themselves

    Either way, he played it out as if it was material to the case when it is not

    • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

      Not to mention Santiago was never even involved in the actual investigation and never even looked at any statements or reports. Most of them weren’t, they were just there to find out what their duty was. And Serino was quiet most of the time. Santigo’s opinion means nothing, yet Mom was all over the place using the media that Fogen blames for ruining his reputation to convince potential jurors that it was the consensus of the investigators on the case that there was “no evidence” to arrest Fogen, when the truth was they thought there was “not enough” evidence according to these law enforcement officers that were not actually investigating Fogen.

      • Jun says:

        Most people will figure that out if they look at the actual officer’s statements that none of them were against indicting the defendant. The fact was that there was a consensus on the investigation on the next move and they were saying at one point, they felt there was not enough to move forward. For them to continue investigating shows that they felt the suspect was fishy with his claims and they felt a murder occurred

      • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

        I agree most people can figure that out, but MOM thought he was going to pull a fast one and the people who don’t bother to read anything on this case believe him and the Pro Fogen’s ignore the truth.

        Good thing Trayvon has us and hopefully a smart jury to give him justice.

  19. Soulsistawoo says:


  20. amsterdam1234 says:

    I have to admit that I am fantasizing that there will come a day when O’Mara schedules a press conference and no one shows up.

    You know that will never happen Prof. Renée Stutzman will be there no matter what.😄

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Jr. will comment no matter what. Sundance will scorn him no matter what. Diwataman will support him no matter what.

      We won’t be able to ignore him, either! : /

    • leander22 says:

      look at this vision of the world to be, and shudder with dismay:

      What should be.

      • type1juve says:

        That was sickening to read. It’s disturbing to think that people with that thought process still exist.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Almost a solopsistic, completely illogical worldview. I find it hard to twist my brain into contortions required to reach these conclusions.

        *scratches head*

      • Cercando Luce says:

        Crazy fan-fiction.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        The only reason they can’t be charged with treason is, because while they’re advocating the overthrow of the U.S. Constitution and the disbanding of the Federal Gov’t, they’re not advocating that it be accomplished by force of arms, but by change. It is no crime to advocate changing the U.S. Gov’t., even if that change is so dramatic that America as we know it would no longer exist.
        Everything is Bigger in Texas, Including the Aryan Brotherhood

        “Blood in… Blood out”, is the pledge and the key. You need to kill to get inside, you need to die to get out. If this killing was part of an initiation, with gz trying to get inside a powerful white power organization, gz is exactly the kind of guy who would go for it.
        Then it would follow that Aryan Nation aka “The Brotherhood” gave him that 300k to show it’s power.

        Well, with the ability to direct that kind of money around, you cannot deny they have power, heck, a passel of lawmakers here in NY state have just been arrested for taking bribes of just a paltry few thousand dollars each. So, we can easily theorize that TAB could have been in control of Lee and Wolfinger, if they were not members themselves. They certainly have histories that lean heavily in the same direction. Then it would not be surprising to find “fellow travelers” on the OS, the TV and Radio station.

        Now look at Ransberg(burg) and the blacks he ran with as cover. The question becomes is he the facilitator? The guy who recruited gz and is his handler? Was that 135 dollar mailing to get the white power memorabilia out of the house? Well, this theory better explains why they were hiding their faces at the 711. They actually knew what was up. Bet gz also told MO that he was going to join up. That would certainly have made Wolfinger and Lee proud, I’d guess.

    • 2Silverboys says:

      >^..^< The entire Zidiot Nation will be there… in spirit.

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