Bernie’s epic smackdown of Mark O’Mara

Friday, March 29, 2013

Good morning, everyone!

I bow down in absolute awe of Bernie de la Rionda’s epic Shakespear-style smackdown late yesterday of the defense team, their internet troll advisers, and the reporters at the Orlando Sentinel who labor so diligently to spread the defense message. I have never read anything like it and it’s so perfect that I think I would only diminish its impact were I to cut and paste bits and pieces of it into a new post.

It’s as close to perfection as I think is humanly possible and Bernie de la Rionda deserves all of the credit for producing this gem.

Make no mistake. Bernie de la Rionda’s masterpiece is so superior to any other formal written legal argument that I have read or heard about that I believe it will achieve immortality as an example of the elegant smackdown.

Read and savor it here.

In other news yesterday, on Monday Judge Nelson issued without a hearing a terse three sentence order denying the defendant’s motion for reconsideration and clarification of her previous order denying the defendant’s motion to depose Benjamin Crump. The defendant’s supporters are in an uproar because Judge Nelson did not conduct a hearing or provide an explanation or justification for the order.

I held my breath and performed a quick survey of comments posted at right-wing websites to get an idea of what they are saying. I saw comments asserting the existence of a conspiracy against the defendant and his lawyers to rig the outcome of the trial so that the innocent defendant is convicted. President Obama is supposedly telling Judge Nelson what to do and she is in cahoots with Bernie de la Rionda to achieve the desired outcome. The lack of a hearing and the absence of a written opinion supporting her order are cited as proof that this conspiracy exists.

They apparently do not realize that judges are not required to hold a hearing before deciding whether to grant a motion to reconsider a previous order. They also appear not to know that the standard practice nationwide in state and federal courts is for judges to summarily decide motions to reconsider by granting or denying them without further explanation.

Needless to say, evidence of judicial compliance with a standard practice is not evidence of a conspiracy to deny the defendant a fair trial.

Finally, did y’all notice BDLR’s comments about O’Mara’s behavior at the the first bail hearing. That was quite a dramatic and disquieting shot across O’Mara’s bow introducing the possibility that O’Mara might be prosecuted for his role in assisting his client to conceal assets and a second passport from Judge Lester at the hearing.

If I were O’Mara, I would take that threat seriously and consult with counsel before deciding whether to respond.

Of course, the prosecution would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he knew and acted with intent to deceive Judge Lester at the bail hearing about the second passport and the thousands of dollars that had been donated to his client via the Paypal account. I suspect BDLR decided not to pursue that matter last year because he realized that he would need solid and convincing evidence to independently confirm the defendant’s disclosures in the recorded jailhouse phone calls.

BDLR knows that the defendant is an habitual liar and no jury would convict O’Mara on his word alone. He is certainly smart enough to realize that his emotional response to O’Mara’s frivolous accusations is not a legitimate factor to consider in deciding whether to charge O’Mara with a crime. This leads me to ask what has changed since last summer that would independently confirm that O’Mara knew about the money and the second Passport at the time of the hearing?

Has Shellie Zimmerman flipped on George Zimmerman and provided the missing link?

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506 Responses to Bernie’s epic smackdown of Mark O’Mara

  1. Now I want an autograph from BDLR. I hope they don’t call it misconduct.

    • Malisha says:

      BDLR has not put up a webpage offering to sell his autograph, though. So I guess we all have to go without!

    • Jun says:

      Omara is trying to sell his autograph but so far no takers LOL

      • Xena says:

        For a limited time, you can have George Zimmerman’s centerfold photo. LLMPapa told him to get in the box.

        For $50.00 plus shipping and handling, you can have an 8 by 10 glossy ready for framing. Say you prefer poster size? For the first 100 people who order, the low price for poster size is only $100.00 plus shipping and handling. Order now for delivery by June 10th.

  2. colin black says:

    Crane an Prof an all whom want a just conclusion in this latest high profile trial takeing place in Florida.
    Unlike the perverce verdict handed down in trunkmoms case.

    All you need to know about Diane Tennis an her lack of credibility.
    This post dedicated to Bernies masterfull responce to m o m frivilous motion for sanctions against the State.

    Diane Tennis says of the same motion.

    Looks to me as if someone was writting this reply to sanctions motion DRUNK at two am in the morning.
    She then went on to expound on how unproffesional an petty it was to hurl childish insults at oposei ng coucil.
    Takeing it to the gutter an I may be paraphraseing there.

    Dont have the link an o sentinal fluff peice by renee an her sidekick.

    So how profesinal is it to accuse a fellow attorney of haveing a drinking problem on M S M Broadcast to potential jurours..

    If I were Bernie Id sue her visable pantie lines ass.

  3. Trained Observer says:

    “De la Rionda’s pleading read as if it were crafted by someone who writes it drunk at 2 a.m.” — Diana Tennis, Orlando attorney and talking head — quoted in the Orlando Sentinel.

    Without comment on BDLR’s state of mind or timing, let me point out that Edgar Allen Poe produced some of his finest, classic work while allegedly drunk …

    Furthermore, (as opposed to nevermore) …


    • Trained Observer says:

      I can’t help but think back to Piranha Mom’s intriguing connect-the-dots theory on Mrs. Fogen (upthread March 29 at 9:46 pm.)

      PiranhaMom says: “… On 2/26/12 GZ hurriedly heaves himself out of the truck in pursuit of Trayvon. Does he leave Shellie stunned and still seated, alone, in the truck? As he told Sean-NEN311, “the keys are in the truck.” Maybe Shellie does NOT want to be there when the cops arrive, because she’s sure George is heading into trouble.”

      That brings me to this endless fixation on DeeDee’s whereabouts at the funeral. Could this constant focus on DeeDee and where she was be more than a sidebar circus distraction?

      Could this be an effort to secure a ruling from the court that the whereabouts of “Trayvon’s partner” before during and after” his killing are irrelevant?

      So that then, MOM could argue that the whereabouts of “Fogen’s partner” before, during and after the killing are equally irrelevant?

      Just askin’

      • Trained Observer says:

        Sorry, Edgar Allan Poe

      • Malisha says:

        I don’t think they’re that much “chess players” as to think five moves ahead.

        They’re just engaging in “destroy all Pba-lack witnesses or advocates for Trayvon Martin by any means necessary,” a simple game, perfected in the South long ago by ancestors of folks like the Outhousers.

      • Tzar says:

        Even if it was, it would be a falsely equivalent with relation to time span(weeks to seconds), space span (miles separated to the distance of the cabin of an automobile) and material events (murder vs. legal behavior), pertinence to the case (another person there would be a hidden witness and would reduce the plausibility of the claims of fear and self-defense). One set of relationships is clearly relevant while the others are not, trying to paint them all with a broad brush would be asinine.

      • SearchingMind says:

        As BDLR stated, the defense has outsourced it’s duty to “anonymous internet trolls” and is “following bad legal strategy and advice from” them. We here couldn’t have said it better. From the onset, GZ’s supporters and apologists have always said that the State has no case without DeeDee. Remove DeeDee from the equation and the case against GZ crumbles. O’Mara and West actually (at least publicly) believe that. And they are geniuses, you know. That’s why they have declared such a vicious war on DeeDee. They are going to take out DeeDee, win the case and become megastars.

      • Jun says:

        The star witness in the murder case is Fogen LMAO

        It is not DD.. all she can really do is say what she heard on the phone and that is it…

        They can try and discredit her for going to the hospital or somewhere but then Omara would have to either discredit Fogen or himself during trial because of the fact that he was caught structuring and hiding money and the passport during the bond hearing

        The bond lies from the defense fall under an admission by a party opponent rule so, is it wise for Omara to go there?

        DD allegedly lied to protect Sybrina’s feelings for an immaterial matter

        Omara and Fogen and gang got caught lying regarding a material matter

        For Omara to call DD not credible, he is calling himself, himself and Fogen or just Fogen not credible, and he loses

      • elcymoo says:

        Trained Observer says:
        March 30, 2013 at 12:26 pm
        I can’t help but think back to Piranha Mom’s intriguing connect-the-dots theory on Mrs. Fogen (upthread March 29 at 9:46 pm.)

        PiranhaMom says: “… On 2/26/12 GZ hurriedly heaves himself out of the truck in pursuit of Trayvon. Does he leave Shellie stunned and still seated, alone, in the truck? As he told Sean-NEN311, “the keys are in the truck.” Maybe Shellie does NOT want to be there when the cops arrive, because she’s sure George is heading into trouble.”

        That brings me to this endless fixation on DeeDee’s whereabouts at the funeral. Could this constant focus on DeeDee and where she was be more than a sidebar circus distraction?

        Could this be an effort to secure a ruling from the court that the whereabouts of “Trayvon’s partner” before during and after” his killing are irrelevant?

        So that then, MOM could argue that the whereabouts of “Fogen’s partner” before, during and after the killing are equally irrelevant?

        Just askin’


        I don’t see how, or, if so, it’s an argument that would be bound to fail.

        Phone records established that ‘Tryavon’s partner’ was on the phone with him right up until the confrontation with GZ. During the killing, she was left wondering what happened, concluding that it was probably no more than a fight. Afterwards, her whereabouts are irrelevant to the events of that tragedy. It’s already known that she definitely was not on the scene of the crime itself.

        On the other hand, the whereabouts of ‘Fogen’s partner’ on the night of the killing would be quite relevant, if it could be shown that she was present in GZ’s truck on the night of the killing, since she would have been both an ear-and-eyewitness to at least parts of the event.

    • cielo62 says:

      Trained Observer~ If you try hard enough, you can find a lawyer that will say anything, even that the earth is flat. If not, if you PAY one enough, they will say anything, even that BDLR’s awesome smack down was alcohol fueled. Just jealousy, nothing to see here.


      • Trained Observer says:

        cielo 62 … Oh, for sure. And clearly BDLR’s magnificent response was drafted in the cold light of dawn and polished by high noon. so he could stick it were the sun doesn’t shine.

        I look forward to JN’s response to O’Mara’s fool motion for sanctions and predict it will be lean and mean, with virtually no commentary and an all caps DENIED.

    • Jun says:

      She’s a media correspondent. Her job is to say irrational things to draw attention, whether good or bad. I do not know many people who can quote authors as an analogy to the situation. I watched her on TV a couple times, and she sounds drunk 24-7 so her point is moot LOL

    • Malisha says:

      To Singleton: “She called my buddy Mark that was there.”

      To Hannity: I was still gonna go over and meet a police officer that I had called.”

    • Malisha says:

      The proFogenites have just graduated from attacking the victim to attacking his family to attacking his entire race to attacking his defenders to finally attacking the prosecutors. They’re like mad dogs who resent being chained up to prevent the spread of rabies and who slobber and froth at the mouth and bark at every shadow while their disease progresses and destroys their sick brains and nervous systems.

  4. SearchingMind says:

    (warning: long post)

    Bernie: a true gate keeper

    The ‘DeLaRionda-Response’ will ultimately become a teaching specimen in law schools – IMO. That response is thunderous, absolutely blistering, intentionally structured and calibrated to not only deliver a thorough effective response to the substance of the matter but also a personal devastating blow to the opposing counsel. I am still in shock and awe – in a positive sense. I have never seen anything like that before and probably never will again. This is a once-in-a-lifetime-event. I think that the echoes of ‘Bernie’s Thunder’ will continue to reverberate for a long time to come. That response restores faith in the ability of Prosecutors to stand at- and guard the gates of the Republic. But it also brings sorrow, because it became necessary.

    Why was such fire power necessary? And what are the lessons?

    a. Witnesses intimidation/protection and the integrity of the judicial system:

    Witnesses form an important pillar upon which the legal system rests. Without witnesses, law enforcement and the judicial process will definitely become illusory. Every professional player within the legal system has a solemn obligation to respect- and protect basic human rights of witnesses. Witnesses are neither the enemy nor the opposing counsel. Fight the substance of witnesses’ statements, not the witnesses as such. Witnesses are scared cows and are never to be touched. Unfortunately, Mark O’Mara and Donald West have willfully violated this solemn obligation on several occasions with regard to W#9, W#8 and Ms. Fulton, the mother of the victim – in a way that amounts to witness intimidation (and I am not sure this is off the table, yet). O’Mara and West exposed and delivered W#9 to the jackals at the “conservativetreehouse” who literarily tore her to shreds in a frenzy, turning her private life upside-down, taunting, ridiculing and humiliating her. Mark O’Mara and Donald West have also engaged in a fierce public humiliation and caricature of W#8 , trashing and trampling on her, while doggedly seeking to get her private information with the goal of doing to her what they did to W#9. O’Mara and Donald West are also shamelessly accusing the mother of the victim of witness tampering and trying to enrich herself by seeking justice for her dead child – in an attempt to publicly humiliate her and dissuade her from taking the witness stand, etc. All these are (potential) crimes and form a clear, present and imminent danger to correct functioning of the law enforcement industry and the integrity of the judicial process.

    b. The worst thing an attorney can possibly accuse another attorney of, is professional misconduct. This is exactly what O’Mara and Donald West did to prosecutors – without clear evidence. And they did it in such a public manner that their primary goal – one must assume – can only be: inflicting as much professional damage as possible to Bernie De La Rionda, Mrs. Angela Corey and their team members and bringing judicial proceedings against an accused murderer in disrepute. ‘That’ is poison. An absolute deadly one that this case may never recover from. To add salt to injury, O’Mara was smiling and negotiating friendly with Bernie on another aspect of the case while at the same time plotting to bring him down professionally. Noting can be more dishonest, duplicitous and treacherous. O’Mara and West have also engaged in a systematic, ferocious public onslaught against the attorney of the victim’s parents (Mr. Crump) in an effort to publicly humiliate and delegalize him and obtain financial benefits from racist individuals, groups and the “Rag Tag Bunch of Misfits” at the “conservativetreehouse”. At the core of professional conduct lies a sacred obligation to abstain from rude, disruptive, disrespectful, and abusive behavior, and to act with dignity, decency, courtesy, and candor with opposing counsel(s), the courts and the public. O’Mara and Donald West have trampled on this sacred obligation – to the detriment of the profession and integrity of the judicial process.

    Once in a while, threats such as the conduct of Mark O’Mara and Donald West will emerge and threaten the basic principles without which a free and democratic society will not be possible. At the gates of the Republic are soldiers in different uniforms who guard those gates against these threats. They are our gate keepers. From the members of the United States Armed Forces (overseas and at home) to the lowest ranked cop in the streets of our towns and cities, Prosecutors form an indispensable part of these gate keepers. Recognizing the seriousness of threat posed by the reckless behavior of O’Mara and Donald West (and that potential crimes may have been committed by this duo), Bernie De La Rionda drew a line in the sand telling them: ‘this far and go no further! Or else …..’. Indeed, Bernie is a true gate keeper. A faithful foot soldier in the front line of fire in defense of crime victims and the Republic.

    • “They are our gate keepers. From the members of the United States Armed Forces (overseas and at home) to the lowest ranked cop in the streets of our towns and cities,”

      And they are of all colors, cultures & faiths

    • cielo62 says:

      “sacred cows” although some are scared also. 🙂

      I agree with you 100% on this Searching Mind. I thought I wouldn’t understand the response, but it was CLEAR as a bell! I was laughing at many of the smackdowns! EVEN a non-lawyer could get the exact nature of his response. 

      Bernie was justified in his scathing retort. MOM and West deserved each lash. Yes, THIS will go down as THE way to bring down unprofessional counsel.


    • cielo62 says:

      Searching Mind~ One more thought; I don’t think that line is in the sand. I think it’s a serious warning. MOM and West better wise up. The only thing worse than accusing a fellow jurist with misconduct is being proven wrong on that accusation. MOM and West have signed a death warrant of sorts for their professional futures.


      • Malisha says:

        I believe Judge Nelson’s response is going to be to deny the motion in a very short order that does include a paragraph saying that neither counsel has reason to criticize the other, that both (all four) attorneys have conducted themselves ethically and properly in her courtroom, that they are all wonderful and beyond reproach, and that everything is going very well and they are to be commended for their excellence and for their zealous representation of their respective clients, the defendant and the State.

        She’s not going to say a single critical or even unkind word; that’s my prediction. And the bottom line will be “denied” and she will add that there has been no prejudice to either the State or the defendant’s rights. And she will do it with elegance.

    • SearchingMind says:

      Thanks Cielo, for pointing that out. My clumsy fingers do indeed do a lot of mischief. Nice to see you (and MM) around again. And Happy Easter to everyone!

      • cielo62 says:

        Searching Mind~ I knew it was a typo, but a funny one anyway! Many a cow be scared here in Texas! 🙂

        Happy Easter!  Passover,   Ostara or just plain SPRING!  🙂


    • esentrick says:

      Simply beautiful! Well said Searching Mind!

      Indeed, Bernie is a true gate keeper. A faithful foot soldier in the front line of fire in defense of crime victims and the Republic.

    • i agree with everything you said, and wish i had the concentration and writing skills to put such thoughts down as succinctly as you!

      yes, i’m also worried about DD and her family. but i can’t understand why these tactics are allowed to continue.
      Especially the horrific attacks on Trayvon’s character *outside* of courtroom! and i believe something has to be done LEGALLY to prevent this!

      i also believe this character assassination is unprecedented!
      ( personally I’ve never seen anything like it!)
      are we to assume it’s open season on every single murder victim’s character, even a minor with NO criminal history?? in public? on the internet? on defense lawyer’s personal websites for the whole jury pool to see?

      why hasn’t this been addressed by someone in charge here?
      maybe BDLR’s response will be the catalyst Judge Nelson needs to take a look at what’s really been going on here. maybe it’s finally time for her to take a look at some of the media she says she doesn’t look at! maybe it isn’t such a good idea to remain uninformed of the lawyers behavior during such a serious, media rich case?

  5. “The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.”

    Sun Tzu

    MOM & fogen are giving BDLR all the ammo they need for their defeat.

  6. Follow…

    Although late in reading this ….After reading BDLR’s response…..To quote Racer…”Game Set & Match”

    Seems the only thing BDLR DIDN’T call MOM was a scumbucket….I’m sure it would apply though.

    Now to go back up thread and read the comments…

    Ya’ll have a GREAT weekend



    • racerrodig says:

      You have great weekend my man….as for me……I couldn’t be any more content…..where do I leave “Positive Feedback”

  7. While Fred writes a post explaining discovery and the Brady rule, I’ll say this for folks carrying on conversations in the spam queue:

    If BDLR was drunk when he wrote it, he writes better drunk than O’Mara writes sober.


    BTW, if you want to see what real discovery violations look like, come over to the world of my legal case, which is a mail order catalog of prosecutorial misconduct, and have a gander.

    In fact, thanks for the reminder, I’ll have to get my camera out and compose the next post, Look at This Fucking Chain of Evidence Log. I got the log through FOIA seven years after the arrest, and after I had served time. Not in advance of hearing and trial, like I should have.

  8. IC2Fools says:

    I believe early on she ‘began’ flipping like a fish outta water.

    It went something like this:

    BDLR: Shellie, you have a choice. Tell us everything you know about the night of 2/26/2012, testify as Witness for the State we’ll get you in Witness Protection Program, a fresh start on a new life vs. 5yrs Jail Life for 3rd Degree Felony Perjury. This Plea will only be offered to you this one time, think carefully about your choice.

    ‘ah, ummm, I’ll take Witness Protection, for a new life Bernie’

    • Two sides to a story says:

      With no priors, she’s unlikely to get more than probation unless a jury really wants to grill her for not pleading guilty, so on the other hand, guess a max sentence could happen.

      • cielo62 says:

        Two Sides~ I think since the lie concerned a murder trial, she’ll get more than just probation. Maybe not the max, but not just probation. It would be a bad precedent for future bond hearings for murder.


      • IC2Fools says:

        Thank you Two sides to a story for your reply.

        Given the severity of this tragedy, States’ evidence of her actions prior to the concealment of funds, bank transactions, I do believe it is possible, she will take a plea bargain before going to a jury trial whom would never grill her the ADA would.
        First offenders with no priors charged with a felony do go to jail

        ‘Never gamble what you can’t afford to loose’. Shellie does not want to take the chance she might only get probation on a felony perjury charge with the weight of the evidence against her.

        Shellie does have a prior for a traffic no degree infraction filed on 9/27/2012 and Breach of Agreement (still pending) filed on 12/21/2012 (OM,fogen co-defendants, plaintiff is AIS their counsel is Lorina M.Truett)
        Case No. 2012-TR-122718-A-O

        Case No. 2012-CA-020556-O

        Thank you Two sides to a story for your reply.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        That’s quite possible – the couple did act pretty cavalierly in connection with a homicide – the court would take Fogen’s charge into consideration.

  9. Lonnie Starr says:

    Warning, I’m getting a strong indication that there are altered pdf documents out there on the net and so, I must advise: “Trust but verify.” This comes about because while taking notes from a pdf embedded document on one day, I came back to do more note taking and instead found the page I’d previously did, blank. Hmmmm.
    My guess is we need to worry about Scribd and google drive doc. since anyone can post there. Oh well, just so we’re all awake and aware.

    I don’t much like this new note from DD that’s appeared traveling around, where she’s now saying emphatically that Trayvon used the cut through near FT’s place. It uses words that DD has so far shown herself to be unlikely to use.

    So, I won’t be surprised if this doesn’t turn out to be true, in the end.

    • Malisha says:

      A friend of mine was married to a man who specialized in making documents look real, using only his computer. He’d take the real document, visually alter it somehow (at the screen) and then print it out. It was amazingly realistic looking! “Just for fun” he took an attorney’s bill and ran it through this process and made it list work such as: “Arranged with Clerk of Superior Court to remove document from docket sheet and shred it…….. .60 hours” and then in the disbursements section of the bill he would list: Bribe to Clerk who removed document from docket sheet ………. $400.00.

      He made the thing look so real it was unbelievable. He allegedly did it as a party joke. But now, in the divorce from my friend, strange things … straaaaaaannge things …. are happening to the court filings in Riverside, California. Dahn da dahn dahnnnnn……

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        You’ve requested foia’s, haven’t you?

      • Malisha says:

        Amsterdam, yes I have.
        But I have not yet FOIA’d the SPD for the info from 2/27/2012 until 2/26/2013. I will do that in April. (Have to save up the fee first.)

        Jun, can you post the documents that SPD gave out for the FOIA for the year before the death of Trayvon Martin? I don’t know how to do it.

    • willisnewton says:

      The missing page on the pdf you saw may just be an error in downloading the data. Did you try it more than once? Being vigilant is one thing, and being paranoid is another.

      As for the letter from “Dee Dee” being a complete forgery, I’m sorry but that’s conspiracy theory talk. Get real and provide some proof before you make an accusation like that, please.

      And she’s not saying that he used a cut thru anywhere, by the way. That’s your reading of it. Nor does she say what time in the letter he arrived at the mail kiosk. Previously it seems her longer and more in depth explanations of when their calls were dropped, along with the phone records we’ve seen lead us to believe that TM was under the mail kiosk before GZ even knew he’d entered the complex, which seems to be bourn out by the fact that his car trolls the mail kiosk for a LONG look in contravention to GZ’s own account. Why would this trolling happen if GZ was following from near Taafe’s?

      • Bill Taylor says:

        long ago i mentioned the term “cut through” is referring to twin trees lane, because it comes in from one entrance and “cuts through” the area to the back entrance and as opposed to using retreat view circle, cuts through rather than going the long way around…..he car being parked right by the mailboxes WAS indeed ON the “cut through” and not directly in front of any homes address……on down that street he IS in front of homes and addresses…..i very much doubt many adults use the walking path, as a cut through from one street to the other, because most adults out walking are doing so for exercise and NOT looking for short cuts.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Oops, you got it wrong if you think I was saying that DD’s letter was fake or anything like that. Originally, if you want to comb back through the posts on, you’ll find that my original theory was that GZ was lying about seeing Trayvon near Taaffe’s place, because Trayvon had come through there, but did so long before GZ even left home. Here we are now, over a year later and my first theory has proved correct. Although I had to let it go because, the only slim thread of evidence I had to hold it together was that DD remarked “apartments” and that must have meant that Trayvon had said he could shelter there. LLMPapa made a good argument for the cut through just north of there, then atty Crump stepped into the fray with his “hit the code”, moving us to theorize that the front gate had been used.

        Though it doesn’t matter much because DD’s dropped and reconnected call, firmly places Trayvon in the mail shed at 6:54, which is before GZ even leaves home.

    • Malisha says:

      How would she know? ❓

    • aussie says:

      Lonnie, that letter from DeeDee came as an exhibit, in handwriting, attached to BDLR’s rebuttal of MOM’s latest motion. It is authentic. The transcription of it floating around on this blog was mine (and I’ve been caught out on not noticing one full stop).

      It is not a statement as such. It seems to be a very brief synopsis of the main points of some earlier oral conversation. She may have been prompted a bit on what the “next bit” is. But the writing, the spelling, the grammar, all show her to be much more intelligent than her halting, shy and pressured oral statements do.

      We only have it from the BDLR document. It was in the last (13th) state discovery but marked as going to the Defense only, no copy for the Clerk, ie not supposed to be released to the public. We only have it because BDLR conveniently attached it to his motion rebuttal.

      The provenance of the letter is good, for my my money. It is real.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        The Fogenites are saying W8 couldn’t have possibly used that language on her own in the letter and they have either Crump or Sybrina writing it, but my experience with youngsters is that most will write more articulately than they speak.

  10. Nef05 says:

    OT: Prof –
    After reading an upthread post from Malisha, Tzar and others about the murder of baby Antonio Santiago and his mother’s possible involvement, as well as her alleged mental challenges (schizophrenia, Bipolar disorder) I went back and read some articles from last summer, regarding schizophrenics Loughner and Holmes. Specifically, “Zimmerman, Loughner and Holmes: Are they Evil?” and “Loughner: Defense and Prosecution Benefit from Guilty Plea in Exchange for No Death Penalty”.

    From the ‘Loughner…No Death Penalty’ article, this caught my eye:

    The prosecution benefits from the agreement because it achieves the most probable outcome of a trial without having to expend all of the effort, time and money necessary to try the case. A guilty plea also avoids a lengthy appeal process and establishes a finality to the legal process. That in turn creates an important opportunity for victims and their families to begin the process of healing themselves and moving on with their lives.

    There is no doubt that Mr. Loughner was psychotic and delusional when he committed the crimes and, even if the jury rejected the insanity defense and found him guilty, there is a significant probability that the jury would conclude that his impaired mental condition when he committed the crimes was a sufficient mitigating circumstance to justify sentencing him to life in prison instead of sentencing him to death.

    Given this position, which makes perfect sense to me, do you have any thoughts/insights as to why the prosecution in the Holmes case would reject an offer (earlier this week) from the defense to plead guilty and accept life imprisonment w/no parole, if they would take the DP off the table? Perhaps a better way to phrase it would be, can you address the opposite side of the coin? What might be *some* of the reasons a prosecutor *might* turn down such an offer from a defendant whose mental illness has been well documented, publicly, from the beginning of that horrible tragedy?

    • Two sides to a story says:

      The prosecution in some states prefers revenge to compassion, as if they don’t already have the upper hand. Plus there are elected positions at stake and prosecutors and judges playing to their supporters.

      • Nef05 says:

        While the crime Holmes committed is as heinous as it gets, if politics plays even remotely into their decision, that’s about as egregious as it gets. To have a viable (and less expensive) alternative that preserves the safety of the community and renders a natural life punishment on the shooter would appear (imo) to be sufficient.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      nef05 asks

      What might be *some* of the reasons a prosecutor *might* turn down such an offer from a defendant whose mental illness has been well documented, publicly, from the beginning of that horrible tragedy?

      i think that is a great question and hope that fred does take this up as a potential article topic.

      what i do know about this case is that prior to making a decision, the prosecutor stated a desire to discuss that option with the victims’ families and ultimately rejected the offer.

      what is woefully obvious to me is that as a society, our nation has a long way to go to deal with the mentally ill in our midst and prosecutors are not immune. the legal burden of meeting the definition of ‘criminally insane’ is high, as it should be, but equally high is the desire for revenge. as long as we have state sponsored death penalties (and i do not expect to see this change in my lifetime), the desire for revenge will clash with how we treat the mentally ill. in no way am i attempting to diminish the horror of this crime, but surely you have seen regular folk (i.e. people who are not victims’ families) express a desire to act as executioner for the defendant, without benefit of trial even.

      i may be in the minority, but for all of the usual reasons, i object to the death penalty. i think that as long as our nation sponsors killing as a legal remedy that we will be prevented from developing tools and treatments to effectively manage the mental health crisis which looms ahead. why bother if we know we can simply ‘kill the bad thing to make it stop’? i see this as a national shame.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        It is a national shame and especially when most civilized nations in the world have dropped the death penalty. I was aghast when this past election cycle that my own state didn’t drop the death penalty, but at least the vote was close. Maybe next time.

        • cielo62 says:

          Two Sides~ Even as bad as our prisons are, foreign prisons are hell on earth. A long sentence is a fearsome punishment, probably worse than a death penalty. Until jails and prisons are internationally at least minimally humane, there’s no “mercy” in doing away with the death penalty.


        • fauxmccoy says:

          two sides – i am guessing we live in the same state then. yes, that was disappointing.

      • aussie says:

        Innocent people are being railroaded into pleading guilty and copping a “lesser” penalty ( 5 to 10 years) under threat of the death penalty if they go to trial.

        Why does this work?

        Because the defence made available to them is so little and so late, they know they cannot win at trial.

        And they call this a justice system????

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Good point, Cielo. The prisons here aren’t are hell of a lot better, but still, much better than third world prisons. There’s a long way to go in also reforming the prison systems and making sure that they’re admitting only people who deserve to be there and that they’re actually working to reform offenders rather than make them bitter and more likely to offend again. However, I can’t see the death penalty as much more than state-sanctioned revenge and murder. I think it’s rarely, rarely to anyone’s advantage to execute anyone. We’re all dead men walking in the Buddhist viewpoint and it’s absurb to dispatch anyone when we all go so fast anyway!

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          The other way to look at it is; countries without death penalties have lower murder/homicide rates. Thus, the death penalty is actually ensuring that more innocent people will be killed, not less.

          • cielo62 says:

            Lonnie- our murder rate has nothing to do with the death penalty and everything to do with the glorification of guns and violence. I support the death penalty and NOT because of the false belief that it deters future murder. It doesn’t. But what it DOES do is remove a dangerous element from society permanently.

            Sent from my iPod

      • Nef05 says:

        Oh, ITA with you, Fauxy. Particularly with regard to mental illness and the way society views it. Doesn’t even TX, the state of conveyor belt executions, have a law stating that mentally ill persons cannot be executed. I remember talk of such a law, but cannot remember if it was passed or not. Also not trying to diminish the horror of his crime, but clearly Holmes was literally out of his mind when he did it. I would have thought that was some type of mitigating factor. It just seems (imo) there’s a difference between someone who is cold-bloodedly *sane* who plots and commits such horror (workplace massacres, family massacres by ex-spouses) and someone who is not.

      • Nef05 says:

        @Two Sides –

        There’s a long way to go in also reforming the prison systems and making sure that they’re admitting only people who deserve to be there and that they’re actually working to reform offenders rather than make them bitter and more likely to offend again.

        I blame the PIC for most of this. The decision to make prisons a “for profit” enterprise has to be one of the worst decisions, ever. To me, it ranks right up there with lying the US into an unnecessary war(s), with it’s cost of human lives destroyed.

        • And the war on terror….the war on drugs….all of them make money, win and you loose your job.

          The only war this country has won is the war on poverty….The Poor lost.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Prison industry/labor is like heroin. It’s a drug that gets harder and harder to kick, even as it drags down the society that uses it. Who can enjoy a “party” where the servers and entertainers are suffering miserably? The answer is that in such a society only damaged people can prosper. Experts like Rommel are forced to commit suicide while idiots and slackards get promotions and power. For example, the economic effort becomes configured, production falls and finally the system cannot sustain itself any longer. The impeding harbingers of doom send the, already crazed leadership over the edge. In short, the system rots from within. We could afford such nonsense ages ago when we didn’t have so many people dependent upon such complex supply chains. Now all we need to do is create pathways to power that fools can navigate and millions will die. Oh, right, we did that already didn’t we?

      • Nef05 says:

        Very true, MMP. VERY true. The poor always lose. To me, it’s a mindset reminiscent of foreign armies/invaders after a conquest. The difference here is, it’s being done to our own citizens, by our own citizens. Which leads me to several questions as to their mindset and disconnect from the citizenry, at large. But, that’s another post for a different blog.

    • Dave says:

      The prosecuter’s decision might be politically driven. I’m sure that there is strong public sentiment in favor of executing Loughner and a plea deal for a life sentence might come up later to bite the prosecuter in the butt when he runs for reelection (or election to some higher office).

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Probably. We’re talking about the state of Arizona, currently run by a Tea Party leaning Republican governor who was an X-ray technician of some sort before she got into politics and somehow made it to the top of the heap.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Don’t forget Tom Delay, the Republican Speaker of the House, brought down by his connection to Jack Abramoff, was an exterminator. Just so you know why we feared Joe the plumber and Sarah Palin.

          • cielo62 says:

            Lonnie- Tom Delay gave Texas a Texas sized black eye. Finally brought down by his own hubris. The GOP is the worst thing that has happened, and continues to happen, in Texas.

            Sent from my iPod

      • Nef05 says:

        We will certainly see. For clarity sake though, I pulled the quote from the article on Loughner, but I was applying it to the prosecutor in the Holmes/Colorado case. Loughner’s prosecutor and judge accepted his life sentence plea. The Colorado prosecutor rejected Holmes offer earlier this week. Which also brings in another element since Colorado is more “liberal” than AZ.

      • Nef05 says:

        @Two sides – I don’t believe that’s an issue in the Loughner/AZ case. One of Loughner’s victims was a federal judge, so he was prosecuted by the feds, and he was sentenced by a federal judge. Though I’m mindful that they do have to live and work in that area, for whatever political consideration that may entail.

    • Malisha says:

      I wasn’t asked, but my reaction to the prosecutor in the Holmes case refusing to take the death penalty off the table is this:

      It is atrocious; it is political; that prosecutor should be ashamed. If it was not obvious that Holmes was insane when he killed, then nothing is obvious. A few quick evaluations by a few $500/hour forensic psychiatrists would turn up CRAZY CRAZY CRAZY and save us all a dollar. Furthermore, the guy didn’t kill people he hated; he killed people he didn’t even SEE until he pushed open a door and opened fire. The torment they are putting people (victims’ families, other news followers, the public, the legal system itself, eventually jurors) through is not justifiable. AND he will eventually NOT be put to death anyway because there could hardly be a better case for the continuous round of anti-death-sentence appeals that will follow for 25 years. This is totally nuts and a sign of enormous prosecutorial hubris and exploitiveness.

      • Malisha says:

        Wait, did I get this wrong? Is it Loughner or Holmes where the defense put life without parole on the table for a guilty plea but it was rejected in favor of trial and death penalty? I’m not staying up to date on these two cases so maybe I got it wrong. 😳

      • cielo62 says:

        Malisha~ Agree with you here, too. This is pure grandstanding; you know, “being tough on crime” type of rhetoric. It’s a waste of time and money but I already see the reason behind it. Descpicable.


      • Two sides to a story says:

        I think both, Malisha – the prosecutors in both cases are waffling around, but the latest news is, I think, about Holmes. They seem to so badly want to treat him as if he’s normal. Though Colorado is a more liberal state, there’s plenty of neo-conservative sentiment that the prosecution would be pandering too. Not to mention the horrendous crime would justify a death penalty in most people’s minds.

      • Nef05 says:

        No, Malisha – you’re right. I was speaking of Holmes. Loughner was sentenced to 7 life terms +140 yrs, back in November. I think you’re spot on in your post, as well. I wonder if “Colorado” might be trying to make an example. Columbine killers were dead. They could not be held accountable. Holmes can.

        IF that figures into the prosecution’s thinking, then I think it’s wrong. I understand the desire to make that point, but I think this case is the wrong one to make it and the point can equally be made with a natural life sentence. Because, as you said, I don’t think anyone would dispute this guy (Holmes) seems to be the walking definition of legally insane. If politics/revenge is playing a role in this, as most who have responded have posted, I can’t find words to express how egregious I think that is.

        FWIW – I hope it won’t get as far as appeals though. I have to hope that the jury will do the right thing (life imprisonment), for the reasons the professor stated in the quote I posted in my original post.

  11. Dennis says:

    According to this news article I was reading, a black child as young as 7-9 years old was reported to police for being suspicious. I bet is was Fogen or another person in his community that shares the same racist mindset.

    ” By his brother’s logic, this frequent suspicion of black people was not due to prejudice but because black people pose a genuine and constant threat to everyone around them.”

    • Dennis says:

      Junior has some serious mental problems if he thinks his stupid interviews and racist tweets demonizing the victim will help his degenerate brother beat his murder charge. He showed his true colors and now the world knows he is a piece of racist scum like his brother.

    • Rachael says:

      He didn’t report him for being suspicious. He was walking alone in the direction of a school (OMG!!!) and it was a busy street so he was concerned. At least that was his BS story. Now why would anyone be concerned about a 7-9 year old walking in the direction of a school? Now if the kid was 3 or 4 and was out there walking alone, sure, but 7-9???!!!

      He’s a lying idiot.

      • kllypyn says:

        Hell i walked to school when i was 7-9 I’m a twin when me and my sister went to the same school we walked together

      • Rachael says:

        Exactly. Nothing unusual about it at all. That’s my point.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        All schools have walk zones, but Z would not be attuned to that kind of thing.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        In my day everyone walked to school from kindergarten on.

      • ladystclaire says:

        IMO Fogen along with some of the other elite (not) white tenants/owners didn’t want AA living in their neighborhood. it’s plain and simple and, what better way to rid your hood of undesirables other than the HOA denying them housing, you harass them to the point, that they will leave.

        Just like they are saying that if, illegal immigrats couldn’t get homes, jobs and other necessary things to settle here, they will self deport. I have read on some sites where bigoted whites are say, that AA should be deported. I guess the free labor that the slaves did for them and is now no longer tolerated, AA are no longer useful to them and their little warped ass minds.

        BTW, when they start wanting to deport AA, they may as well be deported by the Indians who were the THE FIRST PEOPLE HERE AND, THEY ARE THE RIGHTFUL OWNERS OF THIS LAND! these are some very IGNORANT people. when they go back to where ever the hell they came from, that will be a good thing for this country. hate has no heart and, these people certainly fit that category of heartless people.

    • texad says:

      @Dennis As much as I want to come up with another explanation for the thought process of GZ, Jr, and all their minions, I can only compare their true end point to what happened to Native Americans. And African Americans in Rosewood. Or what happened to Black Wall Street. Or the Turks in Belgrade. And Rwanda, Darfur, Bosnia and Herzegovina. And on and on. Ethnic cleansing. Genocide. One and the same. ‘They’ have decided that African Americans are of no more use in America-especially young African American boys. It is frightening because deaths happen so often now that those in authority who should be concerned take a ho hum attitude. I just wonder what would happen if a report came out tomorrow that said _______ (any teen group other than Black) were being killed at the rate of 1 every 36 hours? Would there be outrage and a national call to action?

      • Dennis says:

        Junior seems to be spreading racial propaganda regarding black teens to collaborate the false story of Fogen.

        The delusional idea he is trying to promote is:

        “a black teen shot a baby, so why is it hard to believe that Trayvon tried to kill my brother.”

        It’s like he connected two dots A and B, yet they can’t be connected because there is no relation.

  12. I lose IQ points visiting the OS, where Stutzman and Weiner race to the bottom, but they found some local lawyer named Tennis who said, among other things:

    “but here, O’Mara and de la Rionda “are having these conversations that are down in the gutter, and … they both look like children.”

    Sorry, Attorney Tennis, but de la Rionda looks like a literary scholar and O’Mara looks like he is smoking weed, in this last roundup.,0,5792497.story

    • ay2z says:

      Tennis, pardon me, is an airhead. Watched her get a client in the Anthony case and I’m no expert, but she was not impressive, she was after the red lights, camera wise and on every one of the tv talk shows giving her expertise to the masses.

    • colin black says:

      Diane Tennis is a bottom feeder she represented Domink Casey the PI hired by Cindy Anthony to look for Caylee.
      He was involved in all kinds of under hand shenanigins at the behest of Cindy.
      Diane Tennis represented him at his Deposition.
      An then inserted herself as a talking head dureing the lead up to an dureing the trial.
      She was pro defence.

    • Malisha says:

      To me, O’Mara looks like a cagey sociopathic manipulator (therefore, run-of-the-mill lawyer) and BDLR looks like a competent and diligent prosecutor. Fogen, get ready, there’s a train a-comin’ —

  13. racerrodig says:

    For all of those who doubted Bernie, and you know who you are, the apology line forms to the left.

    • ay2z says:

      racerrodig, I never doubted Bernie, the one who was touted as the ultimate professional of impeccable reputation when he started this a year on the 12th of April, we didn’t doubt would handle this case with high class in contrast to the comedy runaway duo of Sonner and Urig.

      Judge Lester even commented on the undeniable professionalism of O’Mara when faced with the bond lies by his client and wife and the unrevealed safety boxed passport, (the one that wasn’t going to expire within a couple weeks of bond).

      O’Mara has been riding on his reputation with his colleges and apparently at least one judge. 30 years he says he’s been practicing defense law so why now is he so driven to become a public figure on the back of this one?

      • ay2z says:

        Whao! talk about losing IQ points!! I switched to MOM (the touted ultimate professional of impeccable reputation) in the first sentence and didn’t say that, sorry!! Not to confuse Bernie and the ‘Jig Is UpThis Time’, O’Mara.

        Too much Fox, and OS writers and Tennis all at once.

      • racerrodig says:

        As one who does work for several lawyers as an expert, I can smell a shyster a mile away….and I called him Moron O’ Mara as far back as May.

    • IC2Fools says:

      Indeed! Hi ya racer, great to read your posts again.

      • racerrodig says:

        I’ve been reading, just not commenting as much as it got real busy in the shop, & or Federal lawsuit against Ocwen has finally heated up and I’m busy getting some things together.

    • Trained Observer says:

      What??!!?? You mean he’s not in trouble, as suggested by others? … 🙂

      • racerrodig says:

        The Zidiots said he and Corey would be prosecuted for pestering poor old FogenPhoole and SheLie with this fraudulent prosecution.

    • Rachael says:

      That ain’t me, I never had any doubts.

    • Ezz-Thetic says:

      This is not the same Bernie we saw in the beginning. That Bernie did not inspire confidence. This Bernie does.

      • Malisha says:

        Perhaps we were too hard on BDLR earlier because he was not contradicting the crap put out by O’Mara. But the prosecution is not ALLOWED to do that. He was going by the book to prevent any sort of upset after conviction. A defense lawyer can say pretty much anything he wants to; a prosecutor cannot do that because of both legal ethics and due process.

        Of course we need to keep watching all of them. BDLR, Corey, the feds (their investigation has been ongoing but we all know they would like it to just melt away and fall out of the public view), etc. Keep them honest. They can do it; we need to let them know, repeatedly, that we EXPECT them to perform up to standard. BDLR is doing that so far, in my opinion.

        • cielo62 says:

          Malisha~ I was thinking the same thing. I remember many comments here about the misgivings we had with Bernie being able to handle this case. Not being very experienced myself, I never said much. But I am VERY happy to see Bernie get riled! THIS attorney can handle MOM and West without breaking a sweat. All I can say is GOOD!


      • FactsFirst says:

        Shid… I spotted ole Bernie a mile away… Ole Bernie the quiet but deadly type.. He’s the walk light, but carry a big stick type.. He’s the his BITE is more vicious than his Bark type.. I could see the frustration on Bernie’s face having to sit across the court room from the likes of O’mara.. I could tell he felt that O’mara wasn’t even on his level… Bernie was WAITING for the moment O’mara took kindess for weakness…. He was waiting for O’haha to draw first blood… Then…. BAM! Bernie GUT CHECKED O’mara’s ass… I don’t think Omara will be TESTING BDLR’s patience anymore anytime soon.. just my thoughts…

      • Two sides to a story says:

        You guys have about said it all and say it well, so I’ll just add that I’m also happier with BDLR now than at the beginning of the case. I underestimated him, just as I over-estimated the professionalism of OM. He did seem like a gentleman at one time!

      • Xena says:

        There’s a saying to never get into a pissing match with a skunk. At the first bond hearing, O’Mara acted like a skunk. The Bernie we saw in the beginning is the same that we see now — he wasn’t going to take bait to turn a bond hearing into a trial.

  14. ay2z says:

    Wiener goes on FOX and he and RS co-write tonight’s article, drawing on legal analysts opinions, not of the substance of the recent motions, but especially towards Bernie’s response, as ‘childish’, ‘unprofessional’ etc.

    Tennis and Schaefer are the two legal eyes on the camera.
    Why bother having lawyers comment on this, if they are not going to discuss the substance of each? IE they might explain to OS readers about the rules of discovery as it relates to setting depositions, and what does exculpatory evidence mean, how does this relate to the release of information such as hospitalization or not. Why doesn’t, in their opinion, the defense need to get on with a deposition to find out about hospitalization as far back as August 2012, and why should they be reimbursed for chasing down this witness while all the time, she was willing and able to be deposed by the defense? Why, Ms. Tennis, did the prosecution need to supply this non-exculpatory statement, to the defense except as required, once the deposition was noticed?

    Do either of these lawyer’s interpretations for the press, matter and if there were delays, why were so few hours that Judge Nelson set aside on her hearing dates, taken advantage of by the defense?

    (do these lawyers even pay attention to what’s going on? Anyone could read and not understand the context, and beg off by calling it childish.)

    OS article quotes (not including Tennis or Schaeffer, they don’t add much at all)

    O’Mara is asking that de la Rionda pay O’Mara’s hourly rate – $400 – and that of co-counsel Don West – $350 – for a not-yet-totaled bill equaling the amount of time they’ve spent trying to track down information about the hospitalization of a young woman who was on the phone with Trayvon just before the shooting.

    and about De La Rionda, O’Mara is quoted saying:

    “He’s got an extremely weak case that he’s trying to shore up by hiding the ball,” O’Mara said Friday. “I want the money because I want him to learn he just can’t keep doing it.”

    Extremely weak, ok, then why no immunity hearing, over and done, simple weak case, or is Deborah Nelson up for hanging next? And, once that happens, should it happen, O’Mara can get a second kick at the can for starting from scratch for a trial delay, with immunity hearing with new judge?

    • Rachael says:

      “I want the money because…”


      • fauxmccoy says:

        @rachael who says

        “I want the money because…”

        … lord knows i ain’t gonna see a dime from this dead beat client

        but i like your response just as much 🙂

      • Jun says:

        Omara “I want to track down witness 8’s hospital records and social media”

        Court and The State “Sure. Depose witness 8 and you can find out everything you need.”

        If he wasted time and money, it is because he spent so much time beating around the bush, which is only the fault of Omara

    • Jun says:

      I do not get how they were prevented from deposing witness 8

      Omara asks for her information

      The court and the state, tell him, go depose and talk to her, hence finding out themselves

      Not really difficult

      They were personally invited to find the information themselves by talking to the witness in question which is 8

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Ya can’t expect much more of the Faux News Entertainment Corporation.

  15. ay2z says:

    Bernie writes in his response (p4), that the defendant’s counsel “…seems to be grandstanding in an attempt to repeat as many times as possible, what the court already knows; the witness made an incorrect statement about a matter having nothing to do with the Defendant’s culpability. PARTURIEM MONTES, NASCETUR REDICULOUS MUS.”


    “The Mountain in Labour is one of Aesop’s Fables….. often cited in Classical times and applied to a variety of situations. It refers to speech acts which promise much but deliver little.”
    (from Wiki)

  16. ay2z says:

    Dancing, who needs Jib Jab or court rooms when you have lawyer and client dancing for cameras in person? No Photoshop or green screens required.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Now he’s in a daze, knowing his days on the outside are numbered. Tick. Tock.

      • ladystclaire says:

        IMO Fogen along with some of the other elite (not) white tenants/owners didn’t want AA living in their neighborhood. it’s plain and simple and, what better way to rid your hood of undesirables other than the HOA denying them housing, you harass them to the point, that they will leave.

        Just like they are saying that if, illegal immigrats couldn’t get homes, jobs and other necessary things to settle here, they will self deport. I have read on some sites where bigoted whites are say, that AA should be deported. I guess the free labor that the slaves did for them and is now no longer tolerated, AA are no longer useful to them and their little warped ass minds.

        BTW, when they start wanting to deport AA, they may as well be deported by the Indians who were the THE FIRST PEOPLE HERE AND, THEY ARE THE RIGHTFUL OWNERS OF THIS LAND! these are some very IGNORANT people. when they go back to where ever the hell they came from, that will be a good thing for this country. hate has no heart and, these people certainly fit that category of heartless people. they should begin with deporting themselves first and foremost.

    • ladystclaire says:

      Look at the ass rag to the right and, watch as she walks out behind Fogen. she is the epitome of an “ass rag” for these people. she waited until his stupid security idiot came for him, and then she gets up to leave. this wretched woman makes me sick to my stomach!

    • ladystclaire says:

      Those elephant sounds when he was trudging out of the court room well, LMAO! I hope he knows how the common sense public just love to F**K with him and his situation as well as his girth. they eed to hang a sign on him that says, WIDE LOAD just like they do those double wide mobile homes. WIDE LOAD is exactly what he is.

  17. Ezz-Thetic says:


  18. ay2z says:

    Proof, ’cause I have evidence here from the internet” about Witness 8 ?? Ahhhhh…., that clears everything up!!

    • racerrodig says:

      Could this guy be a bigger fruitcake or what??

      • ay2z says:

        Made with Irish wiskey and lots of nuts.

        • racerrodig says:

          He must be working that “O Mara” angle pretty hard about now, you know, “Two Irish Lawyers walk out of a bar” as Judy Tenuta would say “…It could happen…!!”

    • aussie says:

      Evidence from the internet? We’re going to try this on the internet?

      okay then

      The VERDICT from the internet is your client is GUILTY.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Amen to that, Aussie, unless there’s some compelling evidence otherwise, Fogen could have easily avoided this killing.

    • ladystclaire says:

      The judge needs to ask him, where he is getting his information from. this is why he is not ready for trial and, now he is trying to blame the state for him jawing with the CDH and other racist sites on the internet.

      He was called out for that very thing, in Bernie’s response but, he needs to be called out some more.

  19. katieunc says:

    Silent but deadly! BDLR said he wouldn’t try this case in the media and he has been a man of his word. MOM said the same thing.LIAR !

    never under estimate the power of silence and restraint!

    • “Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent’s fate.”

      Sun Tzu

  20. ay2z says:

    Lol!! pots, kettles, jeering, that doesn’t work if you are also withholding critical information, remember O’Mara, your client and you signed an agreement to share? Broken nose confirmation does NOT sound like work product.

    Papa, llong time ago, thought Bernie didn’t get a memo about the ‘broken nose’. (not the memo that said ‘kinda sorta maybe, the ‘real one’.)

    • ay2z says:

      Gotta admire that LLMPapa’s work!! You’d think he knew long ago this day would come along!

    • Rachael says:

      So definitive! “…I *think* the facts suggest…what *probably* happened was my client was reacting to having his nose broken, which *I think* is *probably* undisputed…”

      I love a man who is so sure of himself.

  21. Malisha says:

    Something is peculiar about the baby-slaying in Georgia. First, we read that the mom was shot in the head and leg (bullet grazed her head). Then we heard she was shot in the leg. No mention of her being treated in a hospital? Grand jury indicts before a probable cause hearing? 14-year-old is then charged as an adult and his name is given out? Then there is a news story that ran at first on I think CNN and then it vanishes from the web, and the headline is “Official charged with obstruction” in the case? Aunt and mother of alleged murderer are arrested within days and charged with disposing of the murder weapon BEFORE the weapon is tested to see if it IS the murder weapon? How come everything is so weird and chaotic?


    Does anybody have the real deal on this one?

    • Interesting. Will follow for info, thanks.

    • truthseeker66 says:

      The daughter stated that mother probably shot baby. Mother had insurance in baby and tried to collect pretty fast. Mother supposedly gave away all baby clothing in 2 days…

    • Yeah. One minute she is saying she went for a walk and the father is saying she went to the post office even though he asked her that morning if she needed something from the post office which is a wierd question to me because why would he be so specific? This whole case sounds wierd even though one lady is claiming she saw the 14yr old with a gun.

    • towerflower says:

      She was grazed by a bullet to her ear and shot in the leg. She most likely went to the hospital and released right away after treatment…..meaning the shot/wound was not serious (.22 caliber, nothing major damaged).

      A city commissioner was charged with witness tampering and obstruction, he is related to the older boy (shooter). He claims his only involvement was to tell them not to talk to the police. His attorney said that he talked to them because they are constituents of his–wonder if their victim was too. The sister of the shooter was also charged, she helped the shooter’s mother dispose of the gun.

      My guess is that the 14 yr old is cooperating greatly in the case to try and save himself.

    • Tzar says:

      Hold on to your hat it get weirder
      copy pasting this comment from here

      Looking Around
      March 27, 2013 at 10:22 am

      Many things Sherry West has done, have people giving her a second look.

      1. She initially contacted local media.

      2. Her son was shot on Thursday. Cremated on Friday. She packed up his belongings on Friday to donate.

      3. The child’s father has said that he doesn’t blame the suspects. He blames Ms. West. The way the father acts towards her on video is strange.

      4. She was on the news telling where people could donate to her.

      5. The conversation with her daughter.
      You’re on the Right Track
      March 27, 2013 at 11:34 am

      To add to the above comment:

      6. She was basically uninjured in the attack–she suffered a wound that could easily be self-inflicted, yet these “gangsters” took the time to shoot her baby between the eyes?

      7. She claimed she believed the gun to still be fake even after the gun was fired at her ear, and a bullet was shot into her leg. In the first case, I imagine her ear would have been ringing so loudly that there would have been no mistaking this gun for a real weapon. I suspect she suffered the minor ear injury when she fired at the ground, attempting to hit her leg, and the bullet ricocheted.

      8. In an interview she is asked if she owned a gun for safety, bc she claimed people from New Jersey wanted to hurt her. She says no, she knows nothing about guns–yet she says she believed the gun used against her was fake because it didn’t eject a shell casing. That isn’t how women unfamiliar with guns talk.

      9. In early interviews, she says the assailants demanded money, and she said “I don’t have *it.*” That’s a strange way to talk about a robbery–more like you owed someone money. That would add to the motive. (She also says “I didn’t have any money because babies are expensive.” That isn’t how grieving mothers talk about their babies, as expensive burdens.)

      10. She described the younger assailant as 10, sometimes as young as 5 years old. They arrested a 15-year-old. There is no confusing a 15-year-old with a 5-year old.

      11. No one is standing by her–even though she supposedly suffered the most horrific crime imaginable, her “baby daddy” and daughter are not by her side. Her parents, siblings–none have come down to Georgia, even in her time of most desperate need.

      12. She has had children taken away from her by the state of New Jersey for being an unfit parent. She didn’t even stay in New Jersey to be close to them–she moved to Georgia. This is not a woman who cares about her children.

      13. She never uses the baby’s name when talking about him in interviews. She just says “my baby.” She has nothing specific to ever say about him.

      14. The baby’s father was ARRESTED for confronting the mother after he was given the news. I can’t imagine police *arresting* a grieving father after an event like this (separating, yes–arresting, no). Clearly something is extremely fishy there.

      15. She is a self-described recluse who never leaves the house, and lives on a very safe street. What are the chances the one time she left the house on this very safe street her baby was assasinated?

      16. The intentional killing of a stranger’s baby is exceedingly rare. While gangsters commit violent crimes frequently, they are usually personal or business vendettas, and innocent bystanders are shot in cross-fires. It is FAR more common for babies to be killed by a caregiver. In this case, the caregiver is a woman who lost custody of 2 children, may have schizophrenia, has alienated her entire family, and has no money but may have a life insurance policy on a baby. She also, quite frankly, talks like a drug addict.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Thanks for posting the whole article. I do think her whole story is fishy. Especially with her husband’s actions practically telling us that he suspected her of foul play.

      • Thank you for posting this.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Very sad story and could be another case of falsely implicating a black person in a crime.

      • looolooo says:

        WOW! I hadn’t heard about any of these details! Though I’m not at all suprised. I suspected the involvement of this seemingly drug addicted and mentally unbalanced woman from the very first time I heard how the baby’s murder unfolded. It didn’t make any sense. Why annailate the precious baby boy, yet leave the adult witness virtually unharmed and able to spill the beans? I wonder if she paid the boys to do it, or if they’re completely innocent of this crime.

      • aussie says:

        She supposedly identified one out of 24 photos. Probably the one of the 24 she’s seen around before. His “accomplice” is a known friend of his who has skipped school that day. So it “must have been them”.

        The boy’s mother and aunt both have minor police records. They were arrested for giving false information, and released as soon as this pressured them into naming some names, which resulted in police finding a gun which has not yet been tested as being the murder weapon, despite which both boys were charged (as adults).

        This happened in broad daylight but so far I don’t know of any passers-by who witnessed anything.

        We are seeing Florida law in action – a white man openly admits to killing a black boy and doesn’t get charged; black boys are charged with an unlikely killing even before the forensics are done on a gun which may or may not be theirs, on the say-so of someone who clearly had more motive then they did.

        The daughter she asked about when to collect the insurance is one of the children previously taken from her. She (the daughter) told the media police had refused to talk to her about this conversation.

        This shooting didn’t sound right to me when I just read as far as the first paragraph.

        • Xena says:

          @aussie. On Thursday, I posted a comment that I was surprised Jodie Arias didn’t accuse Blacks of murdering Travis Alexander. Well, yesterday evening Nancy Grace showed Jodie’s interrogations and guess what? I had missed it. She did say that she thought one of the murderers was Black.

          This is a trial that I will be happy to see end. Jodie’s lies and deception remind me so much of GZ. I remember the prosecutor asking her how was Travis a threat to her when his back was turned away from her. If GZ takes the stand at his trial, I hope that BDLR asks him how Trayvon was a threat when GZ had his armed pinned?

        • Tzar says:

          even weirder, the daughter has the conversation recorded, so she is not making this up. I suspect there will be more arrests.

      • towerflower says:

        Here is a Local (Brunswick) news story about the daughter of West.

        West is bipolar and has schizophrenic tendencies and her daughter hasn’t lived with her mother since she was 8 yrs old.

        From what I read in the local paper there, Elkins mother and sister are still being held, they said the sister started to cry when she found out she wasn’t to be released right away. The mother was also charged with possession of a firearm by a felon (I guess for when she had the gun in the process of trying to dispose of it). No bond date had been set for them yet.

        The City Commissioner, who is related to Elkins, was released with several restrictions about no contact. He released a statement through his attorney:

        Commissioner Brooks wishes to apologize for his interference with the murder investigation of Antonio Santiago. He, Along with several others in the community, had been duped by Karimah Elkins and Sabrina Elkins into believing their alibi story for Mr. De’Marquise Elkins. It was his honest belief at the time that he was trying to protect the rights of his constituents by advising them to remain silent and not make any additional statements to the police without having a lawyer present. Unfortunately, he learned later that the Elkins’ were not being truthful with the police when they made statements about Mr. Elkins’ whereabouts during the time of the shooting.
        Commissioner Brooks was completely unaware that Karimah Elkins and Sabrina Elkins had disposed of the alleged murder weapon and were lying to the investigators about their involvement in the cover up and alibi defenses for Mr. Elkins.

        So it is still early in the investigation and it appears that twists appear all the time.

      • This case just might redeem O’Mara from this present farse. If these boys are innocent, he needs them as much as they need him.

      • rayvenwolf says:

        Not to mention she severely downplayed the death of her other son. He and a group of other friends went to jump a single individual. That same individual managed to stab and kill her son and it was declared self defense.

        CNN also reported I believe that she was packing up to return to NJ. Funny she was so quick to leave that state, but now she’s ready to run back.

        I had a feeling she might be bi-polar and Schizo, in that watching her was like watching my ex talk. That said I know if this had been my ex he would have DIED to protect our son for all his faults.

    • texad says:

      @Malisha This case has so many strange twists and turns and layers that it changes daily. All of your questions can be answered yes.Yes. And yes. To add fuel to the already confusing fire, the father of the baby almost immediately blamed the mother for the death and became somewhat violent (in his grief) and had to either be detained-or was actually briefly arrested- depending on what news story you read. The baby was almost immediately cremated by the hospital-apparently with no kind of funeral service. The mother of the child has a 20 something year old daughter who lives in another state, and she is making broad hints that she thinks her mother is not telling the whole truth. The daughter said the mother was greatly concerned with trying to figure out when the insurance money would be coming in. This daughter, by the way, was taken away from the mother at age 8. No reason given. The official charged with obstruction is a relative of one of the defendant’s mother and his charge is that he advised her NOT to talk to the police without a lawyer. Seems like good advice, except he did this in front of the police while they were trying to talk to her.

      Weird and chaotic certainly describes it, but that’s Georgia for you. Brunswick (where the murder occurred) has a population of a little over 16,000 people. 60% African American, 30% White, low to middle income-unlike it’s more famous sister city, Jekyll Island. I worked for the State for many years and attended many training sessions at Jekyll Island. It was very resort like with all the high end amenities. Brunswick-not so much.

      • towerflower says:

        According to West’s daughter, her mother is bipolar and has schizophrenic tendencies, that could very well explain why she was taken away from her mother at age 8.

        I posted a statement above from the city commissioner.

      • ladystclaire says:

        I read on a face book site, that the mother is a Meth addict as well as an abuser of some other street drugs. also, she did not take the baby’s remains and had the funeral home dispose of them. I hope LE is looking at her and, the city official that they arrested was unfairly arrested. no one should talk to LE unless they have attorney present. the LE in Ga. sounds as corrupt as those in Fl.

    • rnewton32 says:

      Good, I thought I was the only one who thought something was up. Did anyone see the interview the mom held where she answers her cell phone right in the midst of pouring her heart out in an interview recalling the incident? If she is another Susan Smith, she should burn in hell! Right along with Fogen. Pure evil.

  22. Jun says:

    How is the public (the normal people), supposed to take Omara serious when Omara sends motions of

    1) Fogen eats too much, press release for Orlando Sentinel by Rene Stutzman

    2) I am not racist tour of media with Fogen Jr, beginning with Piers Morgan

    3) Softball interviews with Bill Maher and Sean Hannity

    4) Begging for money and then trying to scam money from Bernie, and then claim it is for “sanctity of judicial process”

    5) Media whore 24-7, and went into overdrive when Jodi Arias was taking their spotlight

    6) The wonderful, confused, young, betrayed Fogen

    7) Oh the danger the danger…. but find me and Fogen here LOL

    • ay2z says:

      Lol, Jun! Seven nails on the head in one post!

      • manberk says:

        Isnt it also funny how MOM repeats that race has no place in this case then posts that hes engaged in those discussions?! Which is it? I guess once the gig was officially up via Big Bro being exposed….may as well join’em.

        Come to think of it its not a SYG case either, so wheres the need to discuss that? I suggest getting back to work!

  23. Dennis says:

    I’m not surprised the defense has accused the prosecution of misconduct. The same thing is happening in the Jodi Arias case. They are gasping at straws because they know their client is guilty and will be convicted.

    • Malisha says:

      I love “gasping at straws.” I wish LLMPapa would do a video of Fogen and/or O’Mara and/or West and/or [etc.] all “gasping at straws.”

    • Jun says:

      They filed the PTSD motion in the Jodi Arias case LMAO

      Its coming from omara soon LMAO

      Their latest motion is “people like Juan Martinez, so, it means the trial is unfair” LMAO

      IMO it sounds fairly sadistic to stab someone 29 times and then shoot them on top of that

      She pretty much treated Travis like a Filet Mignon

      Jesus Christ

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Not only that, weren’t she and Travis already broken up and she paid him a little surprise visit? Doesn’t sound much like self-defense.

        I had a terrible thought just now, Jun – what would the child of Fogen and Arias be like???

      • aussie says:

        “…what would the child of Fogen and Arias be like???..”

        a quiet well brought up product of the foster care system, never told why he can’t see his parents until 2038…..

      • Two sides to a story says:


        mebbe a holy terror.

  24. Malisha says:

    I know this is on the wrong thread but the “Junior is a Racist” thread is inactive right now so I’m putting it here.

    Here’s what I want to say about the comparison of the case of De’Marquise Elkins (formally and legally accused of killing a baby by shooting it in the face in its stroller) and the killing of Trayvon Martin (informally accused of having been a thug who caused a non-thug to fatally shoot him): Only a racist or an absolute nincompoop without any intelligence could compare them.

    First of all: Hey guys, where is that “Don’t rush to judgment!” on the Elkins case. He has only been ACCUSED of killing a baby. Remember the days when we were sternly advised by the Outhousers that we shouldn’t claim Fogen was guilty of anything because there had not yet been a trial?

    Secondly: The dead person in the Elkins case is the baby; the dead person in the Trayvon Martin case is Trayvon Martin. So why is anybody comparing the shooter (who is also the “gunman”) in the first crime with the victim (who was KILLED by the “gunman”) in the second crime? ONLY BECAUSE THEY WERE BOTH BLACK.

    Thirdly: A surviving witness of the alleged assault in the Elkins case claims that the alleged shooter killed the victim. Only the admitted shooter, in the Trayvon Martin case, claims that the victim attacked him; nobody else backs that up and obviously the shooter has incentive to lie.

    Thus, the ONLY comparison of the two crimes is that a young Black male was involved in the two crimes. One — as the victim. Another — as the accused.

    • Trained Observer says:

      There you go again, Malisha, making way too much sense. This kind of logical analysis will never fly with folks who hang on Junior’s every ignorant weet.

    • Jen says:

      I’m sorry but JR sounds like he has a few screws loose with his rantings about “liberal media.” He seems to think he is on some epic mission to expose the insidious “liberal media” (I think he’s been hanging out at the RacistTreeHouse too much) He is making this case about him and his noble fight against media bias. He is failing to realize that all mainstream media is biased in some way and has the tendency to engage in sensationalism. The TM Martin case is no exempt from media sensationalism and bias…but rather than accept this he has gone on a pointless crusade against the “liberal media” (without specifically naming news outlets). He has gone from the “we are afro-peruvian therefore no racist” tour to the “black people are risky and the liberal media is covering up for them” tour. He’s a fame-hungry, mentally unstable, mean-spirited person and I really hope these TV shows stop giving him what he desires–airtime and fame.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Mebbe he thinks he’ll get some of the leftover Treestump / Diwataman / Talk Left $ when the trial is over. Or maybe it’s that career in media that Maher alluded to. Clearly he’s not ready for primetime either.

      • Malisha says:

        And even more significant to me is the fact that AFTER Junior tweets this disgusting eructation of sheer hatred and racism, he gets invited on TV to tell us all how to think; what is wrong with these amoral conscience-free broadcasters? DO NOT PUT THESE MINI-HITLERS ON THE AIR, you disreputable bums!

    • Cercando Luce says:

      There is a second comparison to make: all initial evidence in both cases is presented by one individual without corroborating witnesses, and each individual claims life-threatening attack with only minor injuries. (Diane Downs comes to mind in West/Elkins case)

      • rayvenwolf says:

        Apparently even her own daughter(the mother of the baby killed) has her suspicions. She claims her mother asked how long it would take the insurance to pay out the same night of the shooting.

  25. MusicMan says:

    Let me say….I was glad to see Bernie FINALLY kick some real ass…Looking forward to more of it.

  26. Tzar says:

    Simply a glorious piece of writing
    I read it 3 times last night
    The final read was over the phone with an attorney girlfriend of mine
    we giggled like school girls and belly laughed like sailors at every other line.

  27. Rachel ‏@CraneStation 17s
    Press release from O’Mara regarding State’s response:
    Expand Reply Delete Favorite More

    Sorry if this is repeated information!

    • Tzar says:

      and me without my tiny violin
      oh wait I found it


    • ay2z says:

      Thanks, Crane, no it’s not repeated from that source, I refused to go over to gz legal site to give them a click on their counter!

    • ay2z says:

      Darn, still gave them a ‘visit’ click, how about we do this?

      (I’ve removed the hyperlinks, and shortened the name to ‘State’s response’ and ‘Defendant’s motion for sanctions’, otherwise, copy and pasted verbatim)

      Seems O’Mara wrote and posted this without hiring a lawyer first.

      ON 29 MARCH 2013.

      The State’s response, while pointed, has little substance that addresses the very serious motion we have before the Court.
      From a legal perspective, the Zimmerman case is about whether George Zimmerman acted in self-defense, but we understand that the case has also become important to the national conversation about race relations, about gun control, and about “Stand Your Ground” laws. Although the Court will not be able to resolve these larger issues, we as the defense team, have chosen to engage in the national conversation in a responsible and respectful way.

      George Zimmerman was arrested under an extraordinary set of circumstances, and he is being prosecuted under similar circumstances. As we prepare for a jury trial in June, we have real concerns about George’s ability to receive a fair trial. The Defendant’s motion for sanctions is not a frivolous attack on the prosecution, it is a serious attempt to seek remedy for discovery violations that have a substantial impact on our ability to defend George.

      What is at stake is George Zimmerman’s right to a fair trial, and in a broader sense, what is at stake is the sanctity of the criminal justice system and its ability to function properly under the incredible public and political pressures that have been placed upon it.

      • Tzar says:

        we as the defense team, have chosen to engage in the national conversation in a responsible and respectful way.

        this from the mind who bought you: send us money, “if you would do what Zimmerman did”

        shameless hypocrite

      • ay2z says:

        I get it, the new fall guy, so to speak, is the justice system and sanctity of the criminal justice system as MOM seems to feel that the pressures put upon it by this case may cause it to crumble?

        And who hyped the pressure? Once arrested, what did you and client do and what did this lead to? Not your fault or doing. No, just like your own client’s actions in this case, you pressured the situation, in your client’s case, he killed a young man who had turned 17 years old earlier that same month. But it was his fault, blame others for your own doing.

        “it means,,,, Noth…” (Shakespeare’s MacBeth), like Bernie said so politely without calling you an idiot.

      • “Although the Court will not be able to resolve these larger issues, we as the defense team, have chosen to engage in the national conversation in a responsible and respectful way.”

        Is he high? He needs to be working on the case and the defense.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          @crane who says

          “Is he high? He needs to be working on the case and the defense”

          strikingly similar to a position i put forward earlier. o’mara is beginning to strike me as someone operating under the influence (of someone or something or combination of both).

      • ay2z says:

        Trust Craneto cut to the chase… “Is he high?” Lol!! High on something, if not chemical, it could be ‘camerabis’.

      • Jun says:

        LMAO How can an irrelevant party be violating discovery, because the defense refused to discover for themselves?

        1) They had since April 11, 2012 to depose w8

        2) They were told repeatedly to depose w8 to find out the information they seeked

        3) They never asked for permission to videotape the parties the defense wanted to videotape. The witnesses deposed only wanted to be deposed, not videotaped. No one asked Omara to hire cameraman to record the depositions. Omara just wrote a notice and showed up with cameraman, expecting everyone to follow his will.

        Omara claims there are discovery violations but can not reasonably back it up

        Omara can only back it up to anonymous internet trolls LMAO

      • Dennis says:


        “Is he high?”

        Epic. Defense attorneys, prosecutors, and judges should all be drug tested.

      • elcymoo says:

        “The State’s response, while pointed, has little substance that addresses the very serious motion we have before the Court.
        From a legal perspective, the Zimmerman case is about whether George Zimmerman acted in self-defense, but we understand that the case has also become important to the national conversation about race relations, about gun control, and about “Stand Your Ground” laws. Although the Court will not be able to resolve these larger issues, we as the defense team, have chosen to engage in the national conversation in a responsible and respectful way”


        I don’t think there’s been anything ‘responsible’ about how the defense team has ‘chosen to engage in the national conversation’ about the issues he cited.

        But let’s look at the issues: This case isn’t about the broader issue of race relations in our nation; it isn’t even about how the SPD demonstrated racial bias in the way it chose to handle the case early on, although decisions made by the officials impacted the investigation or lack of it. It’s not about gun control, since the prosecution didn’t allege in its reasonable cause affidavit that Zimmerman had illegally purchased his gun or did not have a permit to carry it. O’Mara himself announced that the SYG law didn’t seem to apply to his client’s case, which is what former Gov. Jeb Bush and some of the lawmakers who’d crafted and passed the bill had said earlier.

      • jo says:

        This is a complete load of tripe. It is the defense team that can’t keep their smirking mugs out of the media. FFS the defendant himself has given a FOX NEWS interview….FOX NEWS!!!!!! if that is not a network with an agenda then i’ll be a monkeys uncle. The liberal media this, the liberal media that….fox news is in your fucking back pocket so shut the fuck up!

        After reading this steaming load of kkk bowel movement, i am now thinking that jnr is in fact working for the defense team. What better way to have real concerns about poor george’s right to a fair trial than to tarnish the jury pool themselves…reverse psychology perhaps, let the stupid brother paint him as a racist so we can cry that there is no way he will get a fair trial now that his own brother just hung out the family sheets and hoods to dry in public.

        And O’Mara, the only extraordinary circumstances surrounding GZ’s arrest was that it wasn’t done sooner.

      • abbyj says:

        More tiny violins, please. . . .

      • GrilP says:

        Hah! O’Mara does not know how to defend his actions and he can’t, he doesn’t appear to be able to explain himself at all other than to say his “motion for sancations is not a frivous attack”? It is obvious O’Mara does not know how he’s going to defend his client…nothing I can see anyway.

      • Malisha says:

        O’Mara should know the difference between committing a political act that can be seen as criminal and committing an act that is a violation of criminal law. What he’s trying to say is that his client did not commit an act that is a violation of criminal law, but merely committed a POLITICAL ACT. But his own client insisted that he did NOT commit a political act (killing a Black kid because he should really be killed since he did not “belong” where he was and he was “real suspicious” and “up to no good”) but rather, committed an act (killing by necessity in self-defense) that is an EXCEPTION to the violation of the criminal law.

        His own client now pretends that his identifying Trayvon Martin as “suspicious” was not a political act, that his following Trayvon Martin and “approaching” him was not a political act, and that his killing the kid was not a political act. Therefore his lawyer has NO EXCUSE for “joining a national debate” about a political issue. He should be defending his client by showing that the act committed was not criminal.

        O’Mara and the Zimmerman family “joining in the national debate” about race is inexcusable. And their “joining” has simply been promotion of one lie after another — one racist bigoted lie after another. At this point is is beyond nauseating and has become sickening-unto-death.

      • Malisha says:

        O’Mara carrying on about “violations” reminds me of Fogen carrying on about all the terrible suspicious things Trayvon was supposedly doing:

        walking leisurely
        not training
        not picking up mail
        looking “up to no good”
        looking “on drugs or somepin”
        “just walkin’ around lookin’ about”
        “comin over here to check me out” [Well you’re checking HIM out aren’t you?]
        but not in fear

        So now look at all the terrible things BDLR has been doing:

        Not telling us his witnesses are liars
        not giving us a color picture of the black-and-white picture
        not giving us stuff the FBI tells us we can’t have
        not giving us medical records that don’t exist
        “scheming” to prosecute our guy just because he killed someone

        Tsk Tsk F%cking TSK!

    • tinytruthseeker says:

      OMG! Really? If I was O’Smeara and Co. I would have been to humiliated to even attempt a response….. but then of course as Bernie indicated there isn’t a stage that filthy defense team hasn’t danced on and for them any publicity is good publicity…. even when it just underscores EVERY SINGLE point Bernie made….. This trial can’t get here fast enough!!!!

    • ay2z says:

      Contrasting last year’s first media interview, and what he says about not playing the case ‘here’ (in front of cameras), he’s glad to hear the prosecution doesn’t plan to do that.

  28. Jen says:

    I am not well-versed in legal documents at all. My exposure to legal documents always leads me to scratch my head and wonder what I just read as they are filled with jargon. With that said, I found BDLR’s response written very colloquially and full of ire. To sum it up, I found it to be very unprofessional. I usually admire BDLR’s spitfire style but I felt that he came across too emotional in that legal document. Professor, is this common procedure in criminal proceedings to write a legal response with such personal emotions, insults, and to quote author’s for rhetorical purposes? Like I said I have limited experience with legal documents especially in a criminal case but I would have expected a more polished and controlled response from BDLR. I notice you are giving him praise so is this form of response respected in the law community?

    BTW-I am a supporter for Trayvon Martin and family 100%…if that matters.

    • Tzar says:

      I found BDLR’s response written very colloquially

      I am trying to learn more about English, can you quote some of the parts you found colloquial
      PS: I assume you are using this definition Below of colloquial

      a : used in or characteristic of familiar and informal conversation; also : unacceptably informal

      and full of ire

      and every ounce of it well deserved.

      I would have expected a more polished and controlled response from BDLR.

      given the behavior of the defense that was perfectly restrained in my view.

    • Jun says:

      It did not sound very emotional to me but at the same time, how can you not have some emotion in the situation

      I think it is good, because it uses poetics in a legal situation, and makes the reply more colorful and easily understood by an average person while drawing on legalities

      I feel it is breaking new ground and I like it

      I prefer reading it over Omara’s long drawn out responses that have no substance

    • Malisha says:

      The tone of BDLR’s response was well measured to do its job. First, it was to give the legal reasons for the denial of the motion — that is foremost in Judge Nelson’s mind at all times; she’s a straight-by-the-book kind of judge. Second, it was to respond to the extreme frivolous nature and the scandalous content of the motion itself. I think it was done with great artistic flair and it did not exceed the bounds of advocacy. I give it five stars, a Bravo Bravo Bravo, and the equivalent of the Pulitzer Prize for legal writing.

      • Jen says:

        I definitely think he “stuck it to” Omara and Co; however, I am just taken aback but the tone and style it was written in. Maybe that’s the English major in me. I’m more curious than anything to know if this style is common in criminal documents or is BDLR unique in his response. I’m not disputing the fact that he is mad. I am mad too at the defense and their minions (namely RZ Jr. ). I’m just questioning if showing your ire/emotions and insulting the defense is a wise legal strategy and/or acceptable from a judicial standpoint.

      • Jun says:

        In Bernie’s defense, if someone asks you to respond to something ridiculous, it is almost always going to come out tongue in cheek and insulting the person proposing the inquiry, even if you are being serious

        I think he wrote it better than I would have as it is artistic and poetic

      • Trained Observer says:

        @ Jen — I don’t think BDLR’s response was emotional at all. It was, however, designed to showcase the unethical amateurism put forth by defense in the initial motion. As for tone and style, it struck just the right chords, You might want to re-read the doc and the professor’s post. Both are something even an English major might, with effort, be able to appreciate.

      • Jen says:

        Trained Observer–No need to re-read either document. You say it wasn’t emotional but the tone clearly shows that BDLR is upset (with good reason). Anger is an emotion and his anger is prevalent in the tone of the document. I’m sure his tone and style did strike the right chords but I hope it didn’t also strike the wrong ones with the judge (as it did with me). Like I said before, I wonder if that tone and style are common in legal documents as I have never read a legal document written so colloquially and in such a personal-attacking manner. I don’t find it as eloquently written as many of you do here. He quoted Shakespeare. Great. Now I want to know if the professor has seen any legal response that quotes an author in order to insult the opposing counsel.

        • Xena says:


          Like I said before, I wonder if that tone and style are common in legal documents as I have never read a legal document written so colloquially and in such a personal-attacking manner.

          It was the correct tone in response to allegations of wrong-doing. IMO, Judge Nelson will not find that the State’s response has the wrong tone. BDLR has stated in open court that the defense wants the State to do their job for them. Several times, Judge Nelson has told the defense that the State cannot give the defense what the State does not have.

          The motion for sanctions by the defense pleads assumptions, holds the State accountable for asking questions of Witness 8 that having no bearing on her testimony for what occurred on 2/26/12, and alleges that the witness not going to the hospital somehow miraculously makes the defendant innocent.

          On the issue that the defense raises in requesting sanctions, Judge Nelson already ruled that the issue is moot and instructed the defense to depose the witness.

          BDLR has stated in open court that Witness 8 is afraid. He presented and entered print-outs from the CTH to support that Witness 8 has good reason to be afraid. That site posted personal information for Witness 9, and allowed exchanges in effort to identify and locate Witness 8. They have denigrated that witness in every way possible.

          In his response, BDLR reminds the court that the Witness is afraid. He supports his allegations with documentation that the defense gets its bad legal strategy from “anonymous internet trolls.”

          It’s okay to sound angry in pleadings when responding to spurious attacks. The courts do not expect for people to kiss the asses of their accusers when responding to motions that have no basis in fact nor law.

    • gbrbsb says:


      “…written very colloquially… unprofessional”

      IANAL and IMBW but IMO Jen has a point about the motion being written in “colloquial” fashion. On returning to look in more detail after reading her comment I noted two contractions which from my experience is incorrect in legal documents, at least in the UK, and from a little research it appears the US has the same “rules”. Once seen both contractions stick out:

      “Witness 8 didn’t want to get involved in this case.”

      “And, as a society we wonder why so many witnesses don’t want anything to with the criminal justice system..”

      I would not expect “didn’t” or “don’t” nor for that matter the word “want”, more something like “reluctant” IMO more in keeping with lawyer-speak. And the use of “And” to begin a sentence as I have done here but in a legal doc!

      Unfortunately most case documents online are not searchable pdfs but I have searched a few that are and visually checked a few that aren’t and found no contractions in any. Of course I can’t say there are no contractions in any others nor that this is not BDLR’s hand, (it may be he is using an aggressive colloquial style for effect) but other docs I assume from BDLR’s hand are in a much more formal tone and style difficult to reconcile with this and those I checked contain no contractions as far as I can see. That brings me to think, could it be this motion came from Corey’s hand, more especially since it is signed by her? Or perhaps BDLR was so pressed to get off for his Easter break he left it to one of the interns. Just saying… and I repeat, IANAL and of course IMBW… just in case!

      • Xena says:

        @gbrbsb. This link is to a Reply Brief filed before the United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit.

        Click to access MKB_Reply_Brief.pdf

        In it, you will find sentences beginning with “And” and “But.” If I had the time, I would no doubt be able to find briefs with contractions also. Because Appellate Courts have rules for the number of pages submitted and some have rules requiring inclusion for the number of words in a brief, preparers cut corners. “Don’t” saves a space between using “do not.” Beginning a sentence with “And” saves space as opposed to beginning it with “In addition to the foregoing,”

        The brief was prepared and filed by Mayer Brown, LLP. Their concentration is practice before U.S. Courts of Appeals, state appellate courts, and the Supreme Court of the United States.

      • Tzar says:

        That brings me to think, could it be this motion came from Corey’s hand,

        actually the sentences with those contractions make me think it is directly from Bernie because they sound like sentences that I’ve heard him utter in court; Especially the lament about witness participation (he almost said this verbatim in one of the hearings)

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Likely these points do break standard legal writing convention a bit, but I find the document refreshing and easy to grasp, which was perhaps the point of the response. You can’t miscontrue anything in it because of overly dense and wordy formal language!

        • What I got out of Bernie was

          “So you want to play games, and make a fool of the court?……well…..How do you feel about this FOOL?

          One who is always speaking may not be heard, while one who seldom speaks will be heard when they do…….Without a doubt Bernie KNEW this would go out to the media…..And without using big legal words that zimbots can’t understand……He basically called them all on their shit…….doxing included…..Oh and he called them “trolls”… 🙂 ..Had a nasal / caffeine experience when I read that this morning.

  29. esentrick says:

    Great post professor! I agree, BDLR provided a masterful work of art.

    As BDLR stated

    throughout the course of this, systematically levying loud, public,scurrilous allegations and attacks against a wide variety of targets [(ie Crump, Judge Lester, the media, Sybrina Fulton)]…it is no surprise then that the Defense Counsel finally got around to targeting the prosecutors as well

    Well MOM chose the right one! BDLR just ripped him a new one! Bwahaha! As Shaq would say “how my a$$ taste”!! bwahahaaa

    Seriously, IMHO MOM is hoping to find a way to delay the trial while simultaneously pushing for more donors. MOM wrote on his website his displeasure in the Judge canceling the upcoming hearing without warning by stating

    the Court did not consult with the defense before canceling the hearing. As there are only 74 days until trial, and as there are Motions before the Court, we hope to appear before the Judge for pending matters before the next hearing currently scheduled for April 30.

    I would not be surprise to see a motion for recusal in the upcoming future. If he does, I would expect to see charges against MOM for trying to gain a strategic advantage of the trial by filing such a frivolous motion.

  30. bettykath says:

    “Has Shellie Zimmerman flipped on George Zimmerman and provided the missing link? ”

    With regard to MOM, this would be significant only if she were present when the discussion between fogen and MOM occurred. From the jailhouse call, iirc, I got the impression that she was not at that meeting. If that’s the case, she had what we have: fogen’s account and we know what that’s worth.

    If she has decided to flip on the defendant, and she were kept as a rebuttal witness, she wouldn’t have to show up on any witness list, right? She could provide the Perry Mason moment. Cue Dragnet theme.

    • ay2z says:

      What happened with Mark and Shellie during ‘their’ meeting at his office? What did she tell him, something he didn’t want to hear about all the transfers? It’s possible, she sounded like ‘oh no….’ when hubby told her M wanted to meet with her. Was she thinking the worst at that moment, when it was, as hubby assured her, just to go over the bond hearing testimony.

    • leander22 says:

      I am not holding my breath that she will turn against him, it feels really unlikely that she will leave him now; as always I can be very wrong.

      Maybe she has already post trial book contracts and the US talk show circle in mind. “The wife speaks up”, “How it started in our neighbor’s house”. She has a child to care for now instead of bearing new ones, her former defender of weak and frightened females, feeding and nursing it. I couldn’t resist. 😉 Clear bias, I admit.

      Prosecution has filed the 13the discovery including GZ’s school records. Does Category C mean it will unlikely surface in trial, except if defense uses school record arguments, as the Prof taught us?

      • cielo62 says:

        leander22~ I’m sorry to say that IF Shellie has book deals, she better get a ghost writer. She’s not too smart and I imagine the book would read like a 5th grade “What I did on my summer vacation” type of blather. Same with talk shows. She’s just NOT a very interesting nor eloquent speaker.


      • Xena says:

        @leander22. I can see the State using GZ’s school records during cross in the event he takes the stand. GZ told Serino that he completed 2 yrs of college and was going to university to major in political science. That was a lie.

        Also, if the State presents GZ’s history of calls to the cops, it will most likely include the one made in December 2011 when he called the cops to his (non) graduation party because a server expected to be paid. Like the AIS lawsuit, GZ likes receiving the benefit of service/labor but then does not pay for it.

        So, I can see how the State can use GZ’s school’s records to demonstrate, among other things, how he created at least one condition by being deceitful while relying on the police to confront the man he wronged.

        • manberk says:

          @xena Who would dare bother the police with their own personal nonsense? There must be a reason he felt so comfortable making those calls for the cavalry, and then have them come running. I dont know if theres a relationship there or what, but I find it odd he was permitted to continue abusing the system.

          • Xena says:


            @xena Who would dare bother the police with their own personal nonsense?

            GZ has a demonstrated pattern of doing wrong, and to not be held accountable for circumstances created by his own behavior, have someone else intervene. It’s not any different than what he did before his arrest — Papa Zim, Junior, Taaffe, and Oliver, all speaking with authority in effort to persuade everyone that GZ was justified in killing an unarmed kid.

            GZ called the cops on his Landlord who confronted him about unpaid rent. He justified not paying rent on the basis that the house was in foreclosure.

            GZ did it to the server at his (non) graduation party. He justified not paying the server by saying he didn’t hire him.

            His behavior is the same even when he doesn’t call the cops. He cheated his attorney in the Aames case. He cheated AIS. He cheated his donors by asking for money for his legal defense, but paying off debts incurred prior to 2/26/12.

            GZ manipulates others then betrays their trust. He did it to his own wife too.

      • leander22 says:

        did it to the server at his (non) graduation party. He justified not paying the server by saying he didn’t hire him.

        Xena, I was as stunned by that story as you. What I never quite understood was, if he somehow failed to cancel a verbal or written contract and somehow two caterers show up, but he only needed one, that’s how I understood it, or as you suggest he hired the man and then called police when he was asked to pay.

        In any case it’s absolutely mad to bother police with such matters. Crazy. It’s contract law the man either has a right to demand money or he has none. Really simple. I am a woman and I would be quite able to deal with something like that without police. No need of a defender of weak women with a gun, surely not one like that.

        I just thought he is the “hunted hunter”. “Hunted” by former roommates he needs police police protection against, “hunted” by landlords wanting rent, hunted by caterers that wanted him to pay his bill, and the “hunter” hunting cars, and young black males, the first on 02/26/12 and the second on 02/26/12. And that one was not to get away!

        • Xena says:


          What I never quite understood was, if he somehow failed to cancel a verbal or written contract and somehow two caterers show up …

          I remember reading that the guy had served at meetings that GZ organized previously. It’s my impression that when GZ had NW meetings, that person made and served coffee, cleaned up afterwards — bagged up the garbage — that sort of thing. It’s my impression that the person serving is a resident of R@TL. Maybe it was Burgess????

          Caterers to events held in places such as clubhouses do not generally provide serving staff. They drop off the food and it’s up to others in attendance to set it up — lay it out — generally buffet style.

          The HOA must have some type of schedule and rules for reserving a room in the clubhouse and provide a calendar in the clubhouse with events. Either the person assumed that a room reserved by GZ was for NW and showed up, or GZ communicated the (non) graduation party to him. Either way, it appears that GZ did not send him away but allowed him to work and then refused to pay him.

      • leander22 says:

        cielo, you and me and most here know how these deals would work, the ghostwriter won’t show and the fan community will tweet to each other: as Shellie said. 😉

        I am slightly cynical, as always when I dived into the world where the pro-Fogen flags fly high.

      • leander22 says:

        thanks Xena, for whatever reason I stored it exactly as you describe the usage of caterer. (Same over here. But you can order with or without service staff.) Maybe since I associated it with his graduation party.

        Lonnie made me finally buy Osterman’s book, although the ebook does not work on my Kindle and now I have to read it as pdf.file. I guess I will find more about the graduation party there.

        Is there anyone you know about that looked more closely into this special call and it’s context?

        There was definitively something seriously wrong with the man, long before 2/26/12. That event did not come out of nowhere.

        Remember the kids playing in the street? Even the officer on to the scene sent back the message that the kids moved out of the street whenever a car approached. That’s all he apparently did, look, send this message and leave again.

        Oh, Madam, I’d prefer you’d keep it anonymous. The classic informer that does not want to show his face.

        • Xena says:


          Oh, Madam, I’d prefer you’d keep it anonymous. The classic informer that does not want to show his face.

          Yes, but also shows motivation to bring harm and/or trouble. If I saw a child playing in the street and sincerely believed that the child was in harm’s way and called the cops, I would have no problem letting the parent(s) know of my concern. However, if my true intent was to get the parent(s) in trouble with child protective services, I would not want them to know who squealed.

          GZ played right into Taaffe’s agenda to harass Blacks out of that community.

  31. Mary Davis says:

    It has been said that “when the facts are against you, argue the law; when the law is against you, argue the facts; and when the facts and law are both against you, call the other lawyer names”. Paul Dickinson, the Official Rules (1978). – PRICELESS.

    Indeed, the instant Motion appears to be the product of a walking shadow, a poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more: It is a tale full of sound and fury, signifying nothing – William Shakespeare (1564-1616), “Macbeth”, Act 5 scene 5 – AGAIN PRICELESS.

    Wherefore, the State requests this Honorable Court enter an order Denying Defendant’s Motion. WHAT CAN I SAY. Right about now I feel like a school girl all over again.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      @ marydavis

      i’ll twirl my heidi braids to that! 🙂

    • ay2z says:

      Thanks Mary Davis, that’s the link in BDLR’s response to the pot and kettle jeering quote. Name calling, jeering, hypocrisy, ad hominem.

      Piss em off and clean up the splatter. But ‘cept BDLR and Judge Nelson, will not fly their way.

      Speaking of fly…. O’Mara, it’s long past time to—-

    • Jun says:

      More of that fair trial BS

      FOH Omara

      fair means fair to all parties involved not everything the defense wants

      Omara is claiming everyone is a liar, while being proven to be a liar himself

      It sounds like more repeated nonsense from the defense lawyer

      IMO the defendant is getting a fair trial

      The only thing is the defense is attempting a smear campaign in an attempt to make the trial biased against the victim

      • Xena says:

        @Jun. IMO, O’Mara’s press release smacks of sovereign citizenship logic. What he is saying is that the constitution gives citizens the right to bear arms. Citizens have the right to defend themselves and their property. Citizens should not be questioned whether they murdered an “amendment citizen” because of the two aforementioned “rights” and when they are subsequently arrested, it’s all due to racial tension and political pressure.

      • Nef05 says:

        IMO – he’s trying to make it appear as if he’s taking the high road, when he’s actually trying to cover his embarrassment/humiliation/mortification for the way he got spanked in front both sides supporters and the legal community, in BDLR’s response. No way could he simply post that response, in all it’s splendor, without saying something.

        It seems O’Mara could barely come up with what he posted. Isn’t the whole first paragraph a paraphrase of BDLR’s recent argument that the defense’s motion was all style, no substance?

      • Malisha says:

        Remember O’Mara explaining why Fogen lied about the money? He was confused, mistrustful, la-di-dah. None of that for Miss DeeDee, though. Hmmmmm, I wonder why not?

      • Jun says:

        Omara is between a rock and a hard place

        I think Deedee lied to protect Sybrina’s feelings

        and at most, it is circumstantial evidence, based on a maybe specific act of misconduct (maybe)

        Omara can not use what he wants against Deedee without hurting his own defense of Fogen because the state can just as easily show Omara and Fogen to be scam artists, and according to his planned attack on Deedee, he can’t claim him and Fogen are credible after being shown to be liars, when he called Deedee a liar, otherwise, Omara comes off as a hypocrite and not credible anyways

        The state can drop the bond lies from Omara and Fogen and Shellie, anytime, because it is an admission by a party opponent

        However, if he does not go at Deedee about the hospital or somewhere visit, Omara still loses

    • Xena says:

      From the article:

      … it is a serious attempt to seek remedy for discovery violations that have a substantial impact on our ability to defend George.

      How does DeeDee not going to the hospital impact O’Mara’s ability to defend George? Also, the defense has had at least a year to depose DeeDee. It appears that O’Mara and West were waiting to see if “anonymous internet trolls” doxed and intimidated her enough to discourage her from being deposed.

      O’Mara and West would do better spending time with experts going over the lab reports, forensics, the 911 call that captured the screams, and clubhouse videos. As well, they need to determine if they can explain the defendant’s inconsistent statements to the jury.

      • Ty Flair says:

        @Xena you and others was right about this family,I am man enought to say I was so wrong. Seeing fogen brother raciest tweet I see what this family is about now. I tried to give them the benefit of doubt,they fool me once but never again. Fogen has never fool me though,June 10 is right around the corner.

      • IC2Fools says:

        Exactly! O’Mara was too busy preparing for cameras, microphones, answering CTH emails.

        I’m new here and my apologies for using those initials. I have realized that same names are not mentioned here and respect it completely.

        I saw those screen shots over at the site, personal pics, all social media accounts posts from 2/26 until long after the funeral.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          @IC2 — welcome, welcome, welcome.

          i am so glad to see you here and i’m sure you will be glad you showed up. it is very good to see you again.

          • IC2Fools says:

            Thank you!!! So good to see you too. I have admired Professors’ Blog for several months now, learning, reading all of ya’lls’ spot on analysis’ and comments. Honestly, this is my first click each day, even before I read our home news.
            Its’ an honor to be a part of such an intellectual group.

      • Sorry to break it to him, but there were no discovery violations. The defense got the information in advance of hearing and trial. So, no Giglio violation.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Ty Flair, that entire family stinks and, it was obvious from the beginning. first we have the father being interviewed on Fox of course, playing it off about being in danger of showing his ugly face, reading from a script written by Osterman maybe or even his very own grand dragon junior. then we have joonyah himself going around the country on any media tour doing his lying on any show that will have him. not to mention he and mommy Gladys appeared on the Spanish network in order to tell their lies so they could get sympathy from Latinos. even though they “DON’T” identify with Latinos but, they sure as hell will use them.

        They are a family of liars and, they play up to others in a self serving way. at first Fogen had African family ties, then Latino but above all, HE IS WHITE and that is how he identify himself on all government forms. I have read some where that both Fogen and Joonyah were both adopted and, that they are not half white but, 100% Peruvian. he looks to brown to call himself white.

        No matter what he is, this is one thing for sure about him and his entire family, they are bigoted racist and, the older of the Zimmerman KKKlan let it all out when he went on his drunken rant on his twitter page. Jr. you are no damn better than I am and, if anything I’m a hell of a lot better than you could ever hope to be!

      • Cercando Luce says:

        I’m sorry, what’s Giglio?

        I know it’s not “I’m just a Giglio, everywhere I go, people don’t seem to know me.”

      • Tzar says:

        How does DeeDee not going to the hospital impact O’Mara’s ability to defend George?

        You obviously don’ understand the law, Dee not going to the hospital is exculpatory.

        • Xena says:


          You obviously don’ understand the law, Dee not going to the hospital is exculpatory.

          HA! Sure. LOL!! The only person in this case who should have gone to the hospital but didn’t, is GZ.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Now you’re getting it Xena… Only Afro Peruvians don’t have to go to hospitals. DD on the other hand, needed a full body cast to prove her story.

          • Xena says:

            @Lonnie Starr

            Now you’re getting it Xena… Only Afro Peruvians don’t have to go to hospitals. DD on the other hand, needed a full body cast to prove her story.

            Had the child said that she had diarrhea as the reason she didn’t attend the wake and/or funeral, O’Mara and West would have expected the State to ask her how many sheets of toilet paper she used and to produce it.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          OMG… How could we have missed it? Of course, GZ could not have committed M2 because if he had DD would have had to go to the hospital. Case closed eh? Our bad. GZ gets to wander off into the sunset on his way to that beautiful life they had planned.
          >> POOF<< Wake up Tzar, you were having a nightmare!

    • Rachael says:

      He says: “From a legal perspective, the Zimmerman case is about whether George Zimmerman acted in self-defense, but we understand that the case has also become important to the national conversation about race relations, about gun control, and about “Stand Your Ground” laws. Although the Court will not be able to resolve these larger issues, we as the defense team, have chosen to engage in the national conversation in a responsible and respectful way.”


      • ay2z says:

        Well how’d you think THAT happened, O’Mara? Who was it that, once the arrest was made and things settled, kept agitating the race issue and agitating the gun lobby, who was it, and it wasn’t junior, who was guest speaker at…..

        Thanks to LLMPapa and Marinade Dave for getting the video.

      • Malisha says:

        His way is respectful? Of whom?

      • ay2z says:

        and this… he had the idea that prosecutors should pay the killer for shooting someone in self defense, if they dare charge him.

        But, this idea, let’s let common sense go for a second, is it any good if the said killer does not take advantage of an immunity hearing???

        Is this the road O’Mara is trying to go down, in some contorted version, by challenging the prosecutors with misconduct allegations?


      • yes!!!!!!!!!!!!! thank you very much!! my god!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Nef05 says:

      Such Bull! You brought this on yourself O’Mara. Your media tours, your grandstanding in and out of the courtroom, trying to taint the jury pool and to top it off – as BDLR noted in his response – you were actually asking the prosecution for a favor (which they granted) at the same time you were preparing an official court document accusing them of misconduct. Don’t try to sound all self-righteous now. You reap what you sow. What did you *think* was going to happen?

      George Zimmerman was arrested under an extraordinary set of circumstances, and he is being prosecuted under similar circumstances.

      No, he was arrested under circumstances that anyone SHOULD be arrested for. An unarmed kid was shot dead, your client admitted pulling the trigger, and the physical/forensic evidence does not support his story. He is being prosecuted because he needs to tell it to a judge and jury, so they can decide. That’s EXACTLY what they’re for – nothing “extraordinary” about it OR your client, contrary to your belief.

    • kllypyn says:

      I’m not a lawyer but there were no discovery violations. Zimmerpunk didn’t give trayvon a fair trial. he was judged found guilty and executed

      • Cercando Luce says:

        Just like Trayvon was not armed with anything, Trayvon wasn’t judged, he was grossly misjudged; the poor guy wasn’t found guilty of anything, and whacko Z got himself into a sadistic dominance thrill and killed the kid, and that night and the following day appeared in all his video performances to be STILL EXHILARATED about it. I know you’re as disgusted as I am, but I had to put it down somewhere and it’s under your comment.

  32. Discussing logic with the illogical is called sarcasm. Sarcasm is funny. This is pure comedy even though BDLR wasn’t even trying. I laughed my way through the whole thing. It was like watching Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert logically explain American politics. I’m not even sure that they’re actually trying to be funny, it just is.

    • Malisha says:

      YES YES!!

      I’d make a tiny typographical correction and then carve BDLR’s answering papers in marble and bring them down a mountain! They’re not good; they’re not damned good; they’re the BOMB!

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Hey, do you suppose . . . nah, they wouldn’t have hired a comedy writer . . . : D ?

  33. Xena says:

    (following after returning from errands)

  34. fauxmccoy says:

    i am beginning to wonder if o’mara has a substance abuse problem or if he is perhaps ADHD as is his client.

    the amount of time spent preparing the 60ish page motion for reconsideration of deposing ben crump seems like a colossal waste of time and energy (god knows he is not collecting any payment from his client). i know he is putting up a smokescreen instead of working on an actual defense because of the time he devotes to these endeavors as opposed to actually deposing witnesses and obtaining expert witnesses. the whole situation is mind boggling — 60 pages of motion to which he received a three sentence response. as much as i love to see this, part of me is now actually concerned as to whether the defendant is actually receiving competent defense.

    BDLR’s response was indeed masterful. not only did he clearly refute the defense claims, he did so with style and elan, including literary quotes, delightful colloquialisms and a blatant calling out of o’mara’s own failings. it would be difficult for me to cite a favorite portion – options include the following delightful quotes:

    – Presumably, he is seeking compensation now for time he spent following bad legal strategy and advice from anonymous internet trolls.

    – Counsel would do well to remember that concept in the context of claims like that in his Motion. “The world is full of pots jeering at kettles.” LeRochefoucauld, Maxims# 507.

    – What becomes clear, then, is that Defense Counsel either does not know what “exculpatory” means, or he is willfully misrepresenting the same to this Court.

    – Defense Counsel, of course, is no stranger himself to such misrepresentations, having made more than one himself in this very case:

    the footnotes are exquisite and being the literature nerd that i am, the macbeth quote closing just tops the cake.

    i am gratified to see de la rionda pulling no punches in this response. i look forward to seeing the state’s response to seeing this play out in the court room with unabashed glee. 😀

    • truthseeker66 says:

      I think mom is high off the media blitz. He thinks this trial will land him a legal show on cable.

      I don’t think either renee or the weiner guy will mention this in the OS

      • fauxmccoy says:

        @truthseeker — o’mara is undoubtedly looking at the long game, as he has yet to meet a camera that he was been able to ignore. this further adds to my question regarding adequate counsel in the short term. i do not mean this in the literal legal sense of providing potential appeal, just my opinion on his poor judgement of the return on investment and time management which impacts his client.

      • towerflower says:

        Yeah, he’s hoping for more than just the local news stations. He was the legal analyst on one here during the Anthony trial and now Baez will be the legal analyst for fogen’s.

      • ay2z says:

        Remember this? Lionel will be sayin’ told you so! And maybe predicting a close second to the stupidest lawyer in the universe.

      • ay2z says:

        And following on the heels of that exposé, O’Mara is still peddling his elient, he didn’t take the opportunity to tell cllient, thats enough,

        I still think there’s a very good chance that Hannity/Fox paid for that first interview, not with ‘legal fees’, but with something other, no way fogen did this for no direct payment of some kind.

        They chose their words so carefully in the Hannity green-screen play, that they simply covered their explanation with a non-lie, and omitted anything else of financial or compensation, nature.

      • that’s what I call him! weiner dog! lol

    • PYorck says:

      For a while his behavior has been consistent with the possibility that he knows that he doesn’t have much of a conventional defense.

      It is all about slinging mud, pushing conspiracy theories and trolling for money. Perhaps he figures that it is the only thing he can do for his client.

      It is also possible that he figures that it is the only way he will get anything out of his biggest case ever. Champion of all misunderstood racist vigilantes is probably not what he wanted to be one day when he was a kid, but it is still a business.

      In light of the “undisputed facts” of the case the real defense seems to be down to “Yes, he may have profiled and confronted him, but when it didn’t work out as planned he saw the error in his ways but the vicious thug showed no mercy. That was when he sincerely and possibly reasonably feared for his life and had to defend himself – oh, and good luck proving that it wasn’t him screaming.”

      • fauxmccoy says:


        yes, your points are all valid. watching o’mara’s degeneration over the past year leads me to believe that he no longer feels he has a reputation to maintain as a high priced local attorney. the state has effectively lampooned him with this response and using o’mara’s own words/actions to do so. this fits nicely with the theory that he has his eyes on a higher prize.

      • @fauxmccoy

        KMSL @ lampooned

    • Jun says:

      “The world is full of pots jeering at kettles.”

      Okay I do not know what this quote means

      • fauxmccoy says:

        jun – i take it as a variation of ‘the pot calling the kettle black’ with a bit of a twist.

      • ay2z says:

        Jun, from the days when meals were cooked in pots hung over the fire, and kettles for the hot water, both would become as blackened and seasoned in use, as the other. So, they are both the same.

        O mever jeard tje jeering version before BDLR either, but it’s the same thing, and it avoids any name-calling/jeering that may use a sensitive colour inference, when none is intended.

        BDLR is thinking, seems he considers everything he writes, with care.

      • ay2z says:

        Lol! I was writing in martian, forgive me! I must move my kb in line with the screen.

        O mever jeard tje jeering version before BDLR either

        Translates to “I never heard the jeering version before BDLR either” oops

      • gbrbsb says:

        Jun, BDLR rephrased the traditional idiom:

        “The pot calling the kettle black”

        which from the Free Dictionary is explained as:

        “… idiom used to accuse a person of being guilty of the very thing they are pointing out. This may or may not be hypocritical or a contradiction.”

      • thanks ay2z, you taught me something today! I never really thought about why or how that saying came about.

        now I can’t wait to act really super smart and explain that to my boy child one day!! hehehehe

        and you may ask, why do you call your kid “boy child”? and I answer; it sounds weird to say it even to me, but ttytt= to tell you the truth, i’m still shocked that i had a boy, maybe it’s my own way of reminding myself… lol

    • Malisha says:

      My ex-husband used to demand that people tell him all their faults. If he found fault with someone, he would call them a liar for not having INFORMED him of their fault! He would ask sales personnel to tell him “all disadvantages” of the product he was buying. Most of them thought he was nuts, of course. But now I am seeing something quite subtle in this demand by O’Mara for BDLR to have TOLD him that one of the prosecution witnesses had fallen short of some mythical standard FOR PROSECUTION WITNESSES (definitely NOT for defense witnesses or the defendant himself, of course): The abuser in an abusive relationship wants to enforce the idea that HE IS THE JUDGE and falling short of HIS expectations is an offense. So naturally, if Witness-8 is going to testify in a way O’Mara doesn’t like, he appoints himself her judge and he demands that BDLR provide HIM with all “disadvantages” so that he can easily attack her. See, defense of any sort is considered an infraction when one of these abusers wants to do something to you.

      Just so Trayvon’s attempt to defend himself, if he made an attempt to defend himself, is to be considered “criminal” by the defense team. He is to be compared to a murderer who allegedly shot a baby in the face. Why? Because (if he did) he tried to fend off an armed attack.

      Just so any witness who will testify for the prosecution or who even is on the SIDE of the prosecution (such as the victim’s own MOTHER) is to be attacked for having impure motives — for wanting to do something WRONG by insisting that the abuse heaped upon them (such as the murder of their relative or friend) was wrongful.

      This is abuser technology. All attempts at defense against abusers must be characterized as evil assaults on perfect goodness and rightness.

      Go BDLR!

      • Two sides to a story says:

        And likely this abuse is being directly channelled from the Fogen himself (oops, I almost said itself.)

      • Cercando Luce says:

        Well, from the proverbial Mrs. MOM’s point of view, it’s better that MOM work that stuff out of his system in court, in public, and on his webpages, than bring it home to her.

        Malisha, no one explains this better than you do. How about assembling a “Little Yellow Book” of aphorisms to advise the clueless among us?

    • crazy1946 says:

      I know that a few will dismiss this thought without question, however, because of the non professional composition of the motions that MOM has been presenting to the court, I would simply suspect that someone that is not well versed (but has had some exposure to the court system, sort of like a jail house lawyer) is the person responsible for the wording and content of the motions. What better way to keep his client busy then to make him write his own legal papers… If this in not the case then perhaps MOM would be well advised to actually hire someone who is qualified to write these motions… Too bad no one has access to any motions that MOM has presented to any court in the past to compare and see if they were as poorly written! It would be interesting to see what the past would reveal about the present?

      • fauxmccoy says:

        @crazy1946 – aye, that would be interesting. previous motions by o’mara should be public record, if someone were to put the energy into tracking them down, it might not be to difficult considering florida’s easy access protocols. as BDLR said, o’mara does seem to gather defense strategies from internet trolls, so nothing would really be surprising.

      • Xena says:


        I would simply suspect that someone that is not well versed (but has had some exposure to the court system, sort of like a jail house lawyer) is the person responsible for the wording and content of the motions.

        Hey — come close. (Whispering) Sundance gave credit to Tara for writing a portion of the motion O’Mara filed. He probably did a cut and paste number.

        Also, after the last court hearing when Judge Nelson said “For the third time …” I either posted here or on dptm, that after a judge has entered an order, the correct way to show a judge new evidence that was not provided in the denied motion, is through a motion for reconsideration. (Maybe not my exact words but a paraphrase of the same thought) That must have sounded good to a lurking Zidiot who passed it on to O’Mara and West, but as lawyers, they should have known that such a motion requires new evidence that was not available when the original motion was filed, and not regurgitating the same argument.

        (No longer whispering.) IOWs, we can play this to give Zidiots ideas for the defense along with their own ideas. We can even choose a flavor of the month. So, I say let’s chose Junior and encourage the defense to file for an injunction to shut him up.

      • shhhhh, this is TOP SECRET!

        ok, the other day, after junior’s idiotic tweets of last weekend, i was messing around on twitter and started reading some zimmerlover’s tweets on their own page.
        i found something kinda strange. jr was really busy backtracking on those tweets comparing Tray to a baby killer and responding to comments about him screwing up gz’s case AND *upsetting* Omar!
        he was explaining to someone that he wasn’t purposely trying to irritate Omar. The other person was mad at him for making Omar deal with his twitter rants all the time, and kinda threatening jr in a way saying Omar wouldn’t stand for it much longer.. or something like that… then someone else tweeted Jr telling him not to worry about it, that ” he still has the passport on him”!

        see what i mean? she was telling Jr that he (jr) still had the passport on Omar!!
        it sounded so weird to me at the time and i thought to myself, why would she say that to him? especially in the context of the conversation that was going on at the time as jr was having to concede that he screwed up this time royally..

        is she actually telling jr not to worry about it because jr has something on omar????? the PASSPORT????
        was jr and shellie dealing with the passport? and is it *just the passport* or was he involved in hiding the money too? and did jr talk to omar about any of this BEFORE the bond hearing too?
        sounds even more strange now that BDLR is talking about that bond fiasco too! does BDLR know jr knew about some of those issues?

        whatever went on, this person was telling jr not to be worried about upsetting omar because he still had the passport!

        i don’t know if you saw what omar said on soladad obrian’s show when Ben Crump was there, but it was total damage control and omar’s been making the rounds since.. i’m starting to think omar might be more shady than we thought. and i’m starting to wonder if he and gz and co really have some kind of racket going on with the begsite money or funds coming in.

        i just think he’s working way too hard to get the donations coming in just so gz and shellie can afford their new standard of living..don’t cha think? if he wasn’t/isn’t getting some money out of all the begging he’s doing on gz’s behalf, why in hell is working so hard at getting it?

        he could easily get gz back to indigent and get pretty much as much money he needs for experts and stuff. he’d even get him and west some sort of fees too. i mean apparently something is better than the nothing he’s claiming to get now.

    • IC2Fools says:

      I think O’mara has NeedMo Diease. Symptons: Need more money, need more attention keeping ones ego inflated, lacking all concern of responsibility for ones actions and what those actions will yield.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        hey there IC2 — nice to see you here 🙂 my apologies if you’ve been here for a while and i somehow overlooked it. i think you’ve got the defense pegged alright!

    • Two sides to a story says:

      30k a month from the Fogen supporters is probably worth the effort in OM’s universe. It keeps Fogen moving toward trial and I’m sure he hopes he may get partially paid by the time trial is over.

      • IC2Fools says:

        Sir ImSkimmin (OM) has shown skill in Creative Accounting since taking controls of donations. 40k is a great starting salary. As if he is not counting 1K for Shimmy and 3K for me. Write if off as expense for the case. Ergo, OM paying himself with creative accounting.

        As if that money will not be audited by IRS after the 1st bond hearing bank fiasco Transferring funds underneath 5k not to alert IRS, oohhh IRS is all over that money and following whats’ happening to the money since.

        Quote:”you get what you pay for”. We haven’t seen any substantial presentation from defense team for the defense in court, i.e. experts and such. ‘Cause they’re about broke from squander on non-essentials which can’t be used to help try this case in court.

        OM thinks hes’ protected by the Good Ole’ Boys. Negating the fact The Big Boys has shut them down more than once.

      • ladystclaire says:

        Hello IC2fools, good to see you out of the cesspool and, just want to let you know, that I do enjoy reading your comments along with the rest of TeamTrayvon. peace out and, HOODIES UP AND JFTM!

      • Malisha says:

        He’ll write a book when the trial (or plea) is over.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Great post, fauxie.

    • Faux…..I’ve said it before….looks like MOM spends a lot of time with a straw up his nose…..I mean the guy does look sucked up…..

      • fauxmccoy says:

        pat – that would not surprise me in the slightest. that and a flask of dewar’s in his vest pocket, for easy access.

  35. Seems Shellie has only 3 choices:

    1) admit guilt for perjury
    2) Throw George under the bus saying he told her what to say
    3) Throw O’Mara under the bus saying HE told her what to say

    # 3 seem the most likely

    • elcymoo says:

      carabeeinqueen says:
      March 29, 2013 at 2:22 pm
      Seems Shellie has only 3 choices:

      1) admit guilt for perjury
      2) Throw George under the bus saying he told her what to say
      3) Throw O’Mara under the bus saying HE told her what to say

      # 3 seem the most likely


      I don’t see any of the three being a real defense for her perjury, however. After all, she’s an adult with the supposed capacity for distinguishing right from wrong and truth from lies. I would think any jury should hold her accountable for her words, no matter who told her to utter them.

      • Malisha says:

        Defense #4 for Shellie: She had to say those lies; it was God’s plan!

      • Trained Observer says:

        Combo approach: Yes, your honor, I’m guilty of perjury, but it was only because Fogen told me to say this, and MOM told me to say that, and while we were at it, I figured what the hell, it’s all part of God’s plan.

        Except now I’m looking at jail time, and I do have regrets, so just give me probation, puleeze. .

      • gbrbsb says:

        Or she could claim Marital Coercion (hubby) and Undue Influence (MOM)

    • abbyj says:

      Defense Plan #5 for Shellie: flee the country & leave dear husband to sink in the cesspool of his own making.

  36. Well, I can certainly see Shellie’s defense being that she was only doing what O’Mara told her to do.

  37. Mary Davis says:

    I meant to say I think Fauxy is a smart name.

  38. stevie g. says:

    [unsourced comment deleted by moderator]

  39. Mary Davis says:

    @ Fauxy. I did receive the confirmation from Pay Pay, but I feel better knowing the professor has received it. It would kill me if my donation went to the other side. I just don’t trust the tree house people. BTW I called you Fauxy because you said to another poster that you were comfortable with it. I thank Fauxy is a smart name.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      aw geez, thanks, mary 🙂

      i feel confident in assuring you as an ebay seller who receives payment via paypal, that the confirmation letter is something that paypal allows the recipient to have generated automatically when money has been received. you can also check your paypal account directly to confirm, but fred is usually kind enough to publicly thank as well.

    • Mary, thank you so much. It was received at this site, no worries, and just let us know, you should have received an email.

  40. colin black says:

    M O M an defence et al….

    You got served.

  41. Mary Davis says:

    @ Everyone. Sorry, I was so excited I completely forgot to re-read
    Professor’s post. I found it there. Thank you guys.

  42. 2dogsonly says:

    Judge has to ok attorney withdrawing and I don’t see a defense MOM could use. Now if GZ asks for this he is the client and it would probably granted and a public defender appointed. And some are the best.

    If you want to see two of the best public defenders, wiki ” Brenton Butler, Murder On A Sunday Morning”. Professor, you would love the documentary.Won academy award for best doco. In 2001. Follows Pat McGuinness and Ann Finley through the trial. Also, shows the corruption in N Fl.nat that time.

    Stay Strong For Trayvon

    • Not Angela Lansbury says:

      Murder on a Sunday Morning, found it free on youtube here:

      Thanks much!

      • Romaine says:

        thanks for sharing that link it was a good watch, i cried a lil and was very pleased with the out come. two very good lawyers

    • Mike says:

      (Murder on a Sunday morning) that’s what being railroaded really looks like.👍👍👍👍

    • leander22 says:

      Thanks a lot, 2dogsonly. Sometimes I feel I spend too much time here. But I don’t regret for one second having followed your tip. Thanks Angela for making it really easy by simply following a link.

      Documentary: Both fascinating and absolutely frightening to watch this juridical charade. But thankfully it only provided the background for two amazing public defenders. There is quite a bit of professional knowledge that feels eerily familiar. Like the scene: I always smoke before sex. I have to return to that passage probably again and again.

      Jacksonville brings Angela Corey and associatively „Jacksonvillian“: Michael Knox, of school ruler fame, to mind, the chapter where Corey figures prominently has this title and epigraph:

      Proof it!

      “Wheater a judge or jury ultimately becomes the trier of fact in this case, I can assure you they will only get relevant, admissible evidence on which they can base their decision.“
      –Angela Corey, Special Prosecutor

      I spare you the rest of my meditation only passages from the above chapter anyway. It seems to make no sense to pick only one. 😉 In any case the “olive-complected woman of Middle Eastern descent” followed the “old white man” that charged Brenton Butler.

      Good story. Good people.

      Thanks a lot, great documentary. It’s always fascinating to see people act as humans and not as a cog in the system.

  43. Mary Davis says:

    @ Anyone. I have been gone a few days. Can someone link BDLR’S response. Sorry, if it has already been linked, I missed it.
    Please someone tell me where it’s at.

  44. Mary Davis says:

    @ Professor. I don’t want to be a bother, but I just donated. Please confirm. I just need to know that you received it. Thank you.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      mary – if you donated with paypal, you usually receive an email confirmation and thank you in relatively short time – but i do understand wanting a confirmation.

    • looolooo says:

      He usually takes a day or two before he emails a sincere Thank You, along with a blessing. Very sweet.

  45. Not Angela Lansbury says:

    I posted this issue on our conflict-of-interest thread from last week before I saw you tackle it here, Professor, but I might as well repeat myself. BDLR’s shot across the bow was made in the context of showing that O’Mara himself had made several misstatements in the case.

    “On several occasions Defense Counsel asserted to the Court that Defendant was indigent, and he was unaware of the ‘defense fund’ dollars his client had received. However, Defendant and his wife said otherwise…”, followed by the relevant excerpt of the jailhouse phone transcript. See p.5-6 of BDLR’s response.

    It seems to me BDLR pointed directly to the conflict of interest between O’Mara and his client and called him a liar using his own client’s words against him. While I don’t believe either Judge Nelson or the prosecutor will act on this, it does appear to show that a prima facie conflict exists. IANAL but I can’t imagine this doesn’t present a huge ethical challenge for O’Mara (presuming his ethics for no reason at all).

    Professor, wouldn’t you feel some pressure to withdraw at this stage, with your client’s recorded words being used to implicate you in a criminal matter? If you continued in the case, assuming the bail issue might come in, could you risk putting your client on the stand at trial? And if you didn’t, wouldn’t it appear you’d kept him off to protect yourself? What a conflict! Does this issue have potential for getting Fogen a new trial on appeal due to ineffective assistance of counsel?

    • Jun says:

      The jailhouse recording puts Omara in a predicament

      He will either admit his client is not credible in front of judge and jury or he will have to own up to what he allegedly did

      But then, Shellie could be working out a plea deal LOL

      Just take it from the old saying, do not throw stones while in a glass house, which Omara should have taken note of long before spreading his propaganda

    • Malisha says:

      Remember BDLR: “Nobody has proved that Witness 8 was under 18 years old.”

      Remember O’Mara: “By now it’s undisputed that his nose was broken.”

  46. fauxmccoy says:


  47. Trained Observer says:

    “Finally, did y’all notice BDLR’s comments about O’Mara’s behavior at the the first bail hearing. That was quite a dramatic and disquieting shot across O’Mara’s bow introducing the possibility that O’Mara might be prosecuted for his role in assisting his client to conceal assets and a second passport from Judge Lester at the hearing. If I were O’Mara, I would take that threat seriously and consult with counsel before deciding whether to respond.”
    — Professor Frederick Leatherman

    Yes, I noticed but was too busy ROFLMAO at earlier gems within BDLR’s response to accord proper respect for what you so aptly describe as a “disquieting shot across O’Mara’s bow ….”

    So, is O’Mara required to respond to the response? Or does he have the luxury of crawling into a hole until his face stops turning red?

    As for Judge Nelson, what is your take on how she’ll deal with this response?

    Is it fair to assume legal circles will be e-mailing this hummer from Portland Maine to Portland Oregon and beyond?

    While we all agree, it appears, that Bernie’s response was ever so special, it took your post to clarify just how extraordinarily effective.
    Truth can be lethal.

    • Malisha says:

      I actually wouldn’t bet on O’Mara being appropriately embarrassed; he shares his client’s characteristic in this regard: He don’t shame easy! 😳 🙄

      • leander22 says:

        I wouldn’t either, angry, not embarrassed.

        I love the Macbeth quotes, makes my mind wander. (The servants he killed so they could not deliver the true message. Some actions lead to a chain reaction, Serino told Fogen. Strictly concerning Shellie it would point in the opposite direction, as a catalyst of what happened)

        But I am also very pleased about this response from a “special friend” over at the TalkLeft house, I have been warned that I will be banned because of bias. I ridiculed/criticized a new attempts by Diwataman of studying DeeDee’s phonetically or more suggesting visually what he would prefer to hear. Maybe I have to start copying my comments again. 😉

        No libel, jury ignorant (none / 0) (#76)
        by cboldt on Sat Mar 30, 2013 at 07:19:02 AM EST
        There is no cause of action for libel for things presented or statements made in court.

        No person who is aware of the contents of these pleadings will be allowed to sit on the jury.

        Reminded me, that the Prof already told us so. My question was purely rhetorical, although Lester and possible consequences was vaguely on my mind, I was more interested in mirroring the contents of Rene’s article back to him: he had written this:

        I haven’t found the response itself, but if the news report is accurate, Bernie is on a real ad hominem roll.

      • leander22 says:

        Does anyone recall were exactly Fogen said TM came back and circled his car? That would be his first threatening behavior before “doubling back” and threaten to kill him out of the blue.

  48. Bernie was absolutely masterful with his response. He has indeed exposed all of the defence’s BS.
    I’m still trying to see the reference to Rene Stutzman…. don’t know what I’m missing. Please help….I’d love to see her mentioned.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      first footnote on page 1. he does not refer to her by name, but he makes a very pointed observation that defense apologist news items seem to appear before the court ‘received’ stamp ink has dried. (note – i am paraphrasing to the best of my recollection.)

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      Further, it bears noting that said pleadings were, in a curious bit of timing, the subject of a counsel-friendly “news” story even before the ink was dry on the filing stamp.


      • FactsFirst says:

        “Futher, it bears noting that said pleadings were, in a curious bit of timing, the subject of a counsel-friendly “news” story even before the ink was dry on the filing stamp”

        Tell the TRUTH and SHAME the DEVIL, Bernie! O’mara filed that motion on 3/25/13.. AND The O’mara *opps* “The Orlando Sentinel” posted an article about it the same day at 6:32pm WTF! O’mara must be hittin that ~~~~> RENE Stutzman… (throws up in mouth),0,1425704.story

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        You should also read the rest of the footnote

        Defendant’s apologists complain that Victim’s family is merely trying to line its own pockets. It appears that defense counsel, however, may have found an entirely different use for his own pocket.


      • ladystclaire says:

        What ever Bernie said that might be in reference to Rene Stutzman, is oh so true because, just watching this bag lady run behind Fogen and his defense team, it’s like she is a LAP DOG following them around. go get her Bernie.

      • leander22 says:

        No idea if this argument completely works,

        Zimmerman Legal Case ‏@GZlegalCase 25 Mar


        She could have picked it up from twitter

        In any case Stutzman and colleagues occasionally overdo their focus. Pretty unusual. Clear sign of bias.

        Zimmerman prosecutor: O’Mara is a grandstander guilty of ‘craven conduct’

        First Paragraph:
        In a sarcastic, insult-laden pleading, the lead prosecutor in the George Zimmerman case on Thursday called defense attorney Mark O’Mara a “craven” duplicitous grandstander who “courts anything resembling a microphone or camera.”

        Second to last paragraph:
        O’Mara’s request for sanctions is just grandstanding, de la Rionda wrote, the act of a lawyer guilty of “craven conduct.” O’Mara “courts anything resembling a microphone or camera,” he wrote, and should understand the awkwardness of other people making misstatements.

        Rene must have been slightly irritated considering how much hope she put in the motion, maybe even felt addressed in context.

        I don’t envy Debra Nelson for her job, she is already accused of favoring the prosecution in the “pseudo-liberal” camp, at least in this case, or by Jeralyn.

    • Malisha says:

      Her article came out before the ink dried.

  49. CherokeeNative says:

    If you all have discussed this previously, my apologies. My speculation is that Shellie’s attorney is attempting to stall the trial in Shellie’s case until the resolution of Fogen’s so that when Shellie flips on O’Smeara, it will not harm Fogen. That wouldn’t prevent Shellie, through counsel, to put a bug in the prosecutor’s ear that this was their intention – right?

    • Trained Observer says:

      Or maybe she’s turning now … in exchange for dropped charges once she delivers on the stand. Am still curious about her lawyer’s comment that she was “getting stronger” every day. What did he mean by that?

  50. My mouth is still on the floor from Bernie’s response. He called everybody out – the nutters, Jr, O’Mara and Rene Stutzman! More than anything Bernie let them know, I see you! I know what you are doing! Ish just got real! He has essentially said, want to get this lying sack of crap off – then you are going to have to bring your A-game and I don’t think you got it in ya, Mark!

    Woohoo – Justice for Trayvon is in good hands!

  51. justchill says:

    oh man i can’t open the file =/

    can someone translate it to word and post a link

  52. That thing was absolutely jaw dropping. Not very often that you see writing that good in legal circles.

    What does O’Mara do now? Go to the toilet and throw up?

    • Trained Observer says:

      Stock up on Maalox, Milk of Magnesia and Tums?

      • Just continuing to poke around this morning, it still looks like the defense is relying totally and completely on DeeDee’s lie about a hospital visit, for the case. (One of them we do not refer to at this site, and it’s not the CTH)

        That seems utterly delusional. It’s like fixing the car by peeling oranges.

      • bettykath says:

        Crane-station, Is there something wrong with fixing the car by peeling oranges? I’ve been through a whole bag of oranges. The car’s not fixed yet but another bag at the ready. 🙂

      • looneydoone says:

        car repair ?
        Turn up the volume on the music until you no longer hear those strange engine and transmission noises. It’s also a good idea to cut the wires to those little warning symbols on the panel that sometimes light up too ;-0

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Hahaha – Click and Clack had a great chat on Car Talk a few years back with a woman who put duct tape over one of her idiot lights because it annoyed her so much . . . hilarious!

    • looneydoone says:

      I think he may have swallowed his dentures
      Since he usually talks out his ass, he may soon be able to bite his own butt as well

    • ay2z says:

      Crane, he may not have made it in time.

    • ay2z says:

      BettyKath, don’t know about fixin’ cars with oranges, but they ARE SO GOOD this time of year!!

    • Malisha says:

      I love the expression: “He didn’t know whether to sh*t or go blind.” I think that’s about where O’Mara is standing right now. I wouldn’t give him any advice.

      • looneydoone says:

        I love that expression too. Reminds me of my beloved grandmother.
        Another is “flew off the handle and got stuck in the wall” and “had a fit and fell face first into it”

      • Trained Observer says:

        I’m partial to the companion: He didn’t know shit from Shinola.

      • racerrodig says:

        Probably screwed up his entire Holiday too…..just sayin’ !!

    • Two sides to a story says:

      It had great literary as well as legal cachet! And just the right amount of snark!

    • jo says:

      He will probably try and get BDLR removed from the case because he hurt their feelings *sniffle*, remember just like the previous judge….how dare anyone tell the truth, that’s just not how things work at “liars are us”.

      i don’t get the significance of her being in hospital though. Apart from trying to discredit her i don’t know why they give a shit if she was at the funeral or not, or if she was his girlfriend or not. Who cares! Even if they had only spoken a few times it’s not the point, she was on the phone to him when he was followed and confronted and the phone records prove this. So how she mourned or how well she knew him doesn’t matter and i can’t understand why gz supporters and now his legal team are so interested in what this girl did after their client shot someone in cold blood. Isn’t it more important what HE did after shot someone and HIS attitude.

    • abbyj says:

      Buy Depends in bulk?

      • racerrodig says:

        Wrecked his whole Holiday……Damn shame…….

        • fauxmccoy says:

          @racer who says

          Wrecked his whole Holiday……Damn shame…….

          i reckon he’ll be wanting financial compensation for that as well??

          go ahead guys, type that motion up. you have my blessing to call it ‘the faux motion’ …. or ‘the loco motion’ … whichever you prefer 😉

          • racerrodig says:

            He’ll be crying all over his Easter Ham in about 30 hours and yep, he’ll blame somebody. Maybe Fogen will be a dinner guest !!

    • pat deadder says:

      Your comment about peeling oranges was hiliarious.BDLR is a God send.

    • SoulSistaWoo says:

      It was as the Professor said BRILLIANT!

      I loved it, can’t wait to read to my husband!

  53. tony reay says:

    apropos to that suggestion about a spinning Shellie, what’s the timeframe for her case…?

  54. Bernie de la Rionda rocks! Just imagine how he will be in court?

    • Bernie is a beast! We can NOW safely say that gz will NEVER take the stand. Mark was playing chicken and he blinked.

    • ay2z says:

      just wonderful, and yes thought immediately of Shellie and what has changed. Might be worth a review of when she was to meet with Mark in relation to the first bond hearing, as her reaction to fogen telling her on the phone, that Mark wanted to meet with her seemed to worry her. And her hubby assured her what it was about and all was well.

      But, did she say anything directly to Mark in that meeting, or did he ask her something she denied which would tell what he knew or suspected or should have known to check into? Or was Mark just assuring SZ had her story straight and didn’t waver under the pressure of hearing.

      Mark’s comment in court about the bond lies (Judge Nelson) made it clear that SZ was not his concern, nothing to do with his client who did not lie.

      SZ could be between a rock and a hard place, and knows she’s been used, or will do.

      No privilege exists between Markie and Shell.

      Back later, Thank you Prof and Crane for today’s wonderful surprise.

      • jo says:

        i kind of think that BDLR has had enough of the defense bullshit. There is usually a certain nicety between legal council and they don’t usually try and lop each others heads off so i think BDLR just let the issue of O’Mara being untruthful fly under the radar…..but then O’Mara went for Bernie’s throat and all bets are off. You wanna play that game O’Mara, well count me in…i don’t think shellie has flipped i think bernie has…..flipped the bird at the defense in fact.

      • leander22 says:

        Piranha Mom,

        As he told Sean-NEN311, “the keys are in the truck.”

        That’s where it comes from? No, I don’t think he did.

      • Malisha says:

        In one of Professor’s earlier posts (quite a while back, actually) I think he said he heard a whispered, “The keys are in the truck.” I don’t know where it fit in, in the NEN call, but somewhere. I think Professor was speculating that it might have been some other person saying that, not necessarily Fogen.

    • racerrodig says:

      That has to one of the best “Up Yours” in legal history !!

      Does Bernie get down & boogie or what !!

    • heartofhearts says:

      I completely agree! Bernie rocks big time! Great work! Made me smile big to read this post tonight.

    • PiranhaMom says:

      @ South’n Gal 2 —

      The Professor is mulling over Shellie’s role here. Think she could have flipped over to the prosecution’s side? She would be a powerful witness to rebut George’s lies.

      I recently posted this (below) but in the kerfuffle over Erica, it got lost. Pat Deadder has had a number of posts recently that have been nudging my brain to put two & two together.

      Can you help me connect the dots? Any possible connections with this?

      Frankly, I’m still amazed that Zimmerman said coolly to Jon, after he called Shellie for GZ, “Just tell her I shot somebody.”

      Don’t you think Jon would have reported Shellie’s response? “At TARGET!!!! George shot somebody at TARGET??? OMiGod where, in the parking lot, or where? What happened???”

      But there was none of that. None. It’s simply eerie …

      Hear are the dots I’ve collected so far on Ms. Shellie:

      1) Recall that a few posters here considered: someone was in the truck, feeding info to Zimmerman.

      2) Suppose it was Shellie. Suppose they really were BOTH on the way to Target – and SHE had the purse with the cash? Fits his story that “they” go out and do the shopping together Sunday night.

      3) Shellie seems very, very dependent and cowed. She WOULD keep her mouth shut if George ordered her to before he called 311-NEN.

      3) Later, in re-enacting his on-foot pursuit of Trayvon for the cops, GZ slipped up by saying “My wife…. ” on exiting the vehicle, then quickly corrects himself. This indicates Shellie was with him at the start of the pursuit.

      4) On 2/26/12 GZ hurriedly heaves himself out of the truck in pursuit of Trayvon. Does he leave Shellie stunned and still seated, alone, in the truck? As he told Sean-NEN311, “the keys are in the truck.” Maybe Shellie does NOT want to be there when the cops arrive, because she’s sure George is heading into trouble.

      5) Maybe after a terrified minute sitting there not knowing what George is up to but terribly worried and knowing George is armed, SHELLIE GRABS THE KEY WITH FLASHLIGHT and runs after George in the darkness. She gets as far as the T and George is nowhere to be seen, nor is anything else able to be seen; it’s too dark.

      6) Not knowing where George is, she places the key + lLIT flashlight to the southwest side of the T, in the grass, figuring wherever George was, he would have to come back by the T and would see the light and retrieve the key. And he’d have transportation home.

      7) She doesn’t want to leave the key in the truck for fear it would be stolen.

      8) Maybe then she hightails it home on foot, or calls their friend Osterman using her own cellphone – (she may have tried to call GZ but he was still on the phone with Sean-NEN311?) but she DOES NOT go back to that truck.
      Does she hear the wail of “lights & siren” on te squad car approaching? She runs home …

      9) When she get home she gets the other vehicle and drives it to the same locale. With Osterman inside? SPD cops ran the IDs on the two vehicles and they are both Zimmerman vehicles. George did NOT drive both vehicles up there. Who drove the second Zimmerman vehicle up there and why was Shellie not in either one?

      10) After the killing, GZ tells “Jon” “Call my wife” and cuts through his preliminaries by telling Jon “just tell her I shot somebody.” Zimmerman knows he does not have to have Jon explain, “Ummm, Shellie, umm, your husband didn’t make it to Target; there was, umm, a change in his plans.” BECAUSE Shellie was there in the truck during the NEN311 call and knows George was in pursuit and was armed. George has Jon call her because George just needs her to know what happened SO SHE WILL KEEP HER MOUTH SHUT.

      11) Later, Shellie reports to Osterman, “George shot somebody else.” Does she mean “George shot ANOTHER person – the second he’s killed in his life”? Or does she mean “George shot ‘somebody else’ other than some person he INTENDED to shoot this night”? (Did Zimmerman maybe think Trayvon was one of George’s earlier “suspects” at RATL? This event was mistaken identity?)

      12) I wish out friend from Manitoba, Seallison, were still posting. She always maintained that the key with the lit flashlight-keychain would be a key piece of evidence. Did Shellie place it there for George to find?

      13) If there was this involvement by Shellie FROM THE OUTSET of this stalking, when George chased Trayvon with his vehicle, she is in a very precarious position. O’Mara surely wants her phone records. Does Bernie de la Rionds have them?

      14) Shellie can see now that GZ is doomed by the evidence, will spend his life in jail, is leaving her facing a mountain of debt, and has placed her in a very dangerous position on the perjury charge

      15). She and her attorney may well be trying to plea bargain in her favor if she turns informer on George – because George nor any of his family will EVER support her after George is sentenced.

      16) She doesn’t want to go to jail, too. She could have valuable first-hand evidence that could be used in court against George. WAS SHE IN THE TRUCK WHEN GEORGE CHASED TRAYVON, LIGHTS OUT, FROM THE MAIL KIOSK TO THE “CUT THROUGH”? With this, she’s in a good bargaining position to help herself.

      17) Shellie seemed surprisingly gracious and serene in that recent court appearance – almost relaxed. Has she been assured she will be taken care of if she agrees to testify against George?

      18) When will we find out?

      Has Bernie found his Princess of Truth and Light in this case –and is it Shellie Zimmerman?

      • willisnewton says:

        Wouldn’t that just be incredible? I do agree that whatever the hell happened that night, we only know part of it.

        I always wondered who GZ is calling in the bloody head photo since he seemingly isn’t calling Shellie. He called someone ELSE first? What could they do for him that he had to call them first and then toss off to a stranger “hey, call my wife, too eh?”

        Was he canceling his guitar lesson? lol

      • Trained Observer says:

        Piranha Mom: Regarding 14) … hell’s bells … if the most skeletal jist of your suspicions are even remotely on target, then perjury is the least of Mrs. Fogen’s worries. She’d surely be an accessory of some nature and vulnerable to a veritable buffet of felony charges.

        Can we feel confident Bernie is now turning the screws? Both Mrs. Fogen and her attorney are verrry, verrry quiet. I’d like to know if the Fogens are sharing a roof these days.

      • pat deadder says:

        To PiranhaMom thank you thank you. You can articulate it so much better than me.Why didn’t the caller have to Shelly where they were.Where was the money for shopping.Who was the second person who closed the truck door so quietly.Maybe the prosecution knows she was in the truck somehow and have had a heart to heart talk to her like she can be charged with accessary after the fact.Or maybe I watched Law and Order too often but really Shelly not being in the truck makes no sense.

      • IC2Fools says:

        Thank you for a great post! You certainly nudged my mind.

        Well,here goes MHO:

        Osterman was there that night, in Fogens’ own words at SPD 2/27/2012:

        Investigator: ‘She was home wondering why you couldn’t return”

        Fogen: “Ah, NO”

        Fogen: “She knew within 5mins” – “She called my buddy Mark who was there”

        I agree that Shellie flipped on Fogen, OM, Osterman and Taffee. WT 11 ‘sounded like 3 or 4 guys, WT 13 FDLE interview ‘we heard a couple of THE guys’, lest not forget the man in the white shirt.

        Shellie guided the State to further investigate Osterman presence that evening. The security tapes of Target, Sams and Lakes’ Edges apartments and RATL Clubhouse all will show who was riding with Fogen.

        His phone records will also prove who he called and called him prior to, during and afterwards. No surprise if there are texts sent to him during the NEN call. I also believe the State has investigted Shellies, Ostermans’ and Taffee phone records from that night.

      • racerrodig says:

        About a month ago when the Outhouse stopped the open discussion on Fogen I was talking to one of my Federal connection guys about this very thing. Did SheLie roll ?? The impression I got from the conversations is yes.

  55. I simply love your posts! Oh, am I first?

    • kllypyn says:

      I would rather this tragedy had never happened and we wouldn’t be having this discussion. i couldn’t sleep ;last night i kept thinking about what trayvon went through during the last few minutes of his life because i heard the neighbor yelling at his friends yesterday and he sounded so much like trayvon except he wasn’t screaming in fear and panic. i started crying like a baby. Why am i so emotional about a kid i never met? A kid i never would have heard of if he hadn’t been murdered.trayvon was never a thug he was not a gang member so he tried weed just like most teens. he was just a typical teenager who did some silly teenage things that he got in trouble for and was punished all accounts he was what a friend of mine would call a sweet heart. he would give the shirt off his back if you needed it.By all accounts he would prefer not to fight. But he would defend himself if he had to.He had no history of violence. no criminal history.he was not known for picking fights or attacking people. he was not known for harassing people he was not known for beating up girls. he liked talking about girls. he liked talking to girls. Contrast that to what we know about zmmerpunk. although not admissible in court unless the defense opens the door. He bragged about getting away with criminal activity on his my space page. He beat up an ex girlfriend. He threw a woman across a room after losing his temper while working as a bouncer he attacked an under cover female police officer after she tried arrest a friend of his for underage drinking. he has a history of going after people weaker than himself. That’s why he went after Trayvon. He knew Trayvon was no match for him.He harassed coworkers his neighbors. there were complaints filed against him because of his overly aggressive tactics. There were complaints filed against him because he was going around asking for personal info and refused to show id. It should be more than apparent to most normal people that he did not kill trayvon in self defense. hr killed trayvon because he got angry when trayvon resisted him he did not expect trayvon to put up the fuss he did. Mind you trayvon never hit him he simply tried to get away from him. he was just a kid he was not strong enough to break from from Zimmerpunk’s grip on his shirts. He tried but he couldn’t escape. the increasing desperation in his screams prove he couldn’t escape. i also believe that last terrifying shriek just before the shot occured after Zimmerpunk told him he was gonna die tonight. At that point he knew he was about to die. the autopsy report says his nail beds were cyanotic that means his heart kept beating after he was shot but the blood was no longer being oxygenated. which leads me to believe his lungs collapsed just a few seconds after he was shot. Exactly how many seconds we will never know. he did nothing to deserve a bullet in his chest. Trayvon never hurt anyone. Zimmerman has a history of hurting people. there were reports that night was the first time Trayvon went anywhere in that neighborhood alone .He was always with an adult. He is dead because an adult could not control his anger lost it and killed him while he begged for his life. People say i shouldn’t hate this so called man well think again i despise him. I hope he suffers for the rest of his life.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        You’ll find peace soon, as will Trayvon.

      • Valerie says:

        Kelly, thanks that was so touching. Rest assured,George can’t hurt Trayvon anymore and as sure as the sun will rise in the morning…he will pay for what he has done.

      • camanokat says:

        So sweet! Very well said.

      • Deborah says:


        Darling, their is nothing wrong if you cry. Crying is good for the soul. I cry myself when I think about TM because in addition to my two older daughters, I have a son that was the same age as Trayvon Martin. Born the exact same year. I thought I was having a girl again, but my husband and I were surprised! We did not want to know the sex of the baby beforehand. I cannot fathom even losing my son in this senseless manner!!!! To have this mentally disturbed man kill my son and to know that his family covered up for him his entire life,and never got him the help that he needed, then to have to listen to his pathological lies about what transpired and to hear this man and his Attorney, demonize my son, and to hear the perpetrators brother make racist comments to fan the flames of racism further??? Then to flip the script and blame TM for his own death and to appeal to the racist element in this country with his racist rhetoric is beyond reprehensible to me! It disgust me to no end to see how Fogen and his demented racist brother have appealed to the racist element in this country which further divides us! I will be on vacation during Fogen’s trial and I want to hear the words, “GUILTY” when he is in court sitting there as they haul his ass off to jail and then to prison to serve his 35 years to life!

        TM did not die immediately. If his nail beds were cyanotic, I know so well that it means that his heart was still beating but was no longer being oxygenated. As a Nurse, I only know too well how the body works and sometimes I wish I didn’t. The inferior vena cava, also known as the posterior vena cava, is the large vein that carries de-oxygenated blood from the lower half of the body into the right atrium of the heart. and his lungs collapsed. I cannot begin to know how this kid felt as he felt his life slipping away.SMH. Because Fogen could not conrol his anger and rage, he murdered this kid and then fabricated a story about being attacked, and he almost got away with it! :

        I believe that TM transitioned very quickly. I have to beleve that. He is no longer suffering nor is he in any pain. Your becoming emotional only shows that you are a caring, loving individual. Those are wonderful traits to possess. Don’t ever feel that you need to be strong. Your strength is in your ability to feel pain, and to care.

      • heartofhearts says:

        I believe we have been summoned to Trayvon. Some of us contribute so brilliantly and some of us just offer our prayers. I never knew this young man either but somehow deeply connected like so many here. Trayvon could of been any of our sons regardless of color and I will remain steadfast in justice for him.

      • I feel the same way, as the mother of a son born 3 mos. after Trayvon, I feel the pain and anguish his mother must feel and I breakdown into tears a lot. I know that her pain must be 100x greater than mine. I am so sorry that happened to Trayvon, at the hands of such a disgusting coward. I believe “Zimmerman had been drinking and was hopped up on prescription mess when he murdered Trayvon. I can’t seem to get over the heartbreak either. Everytime my 17 y.o. son (who plays sports) leaves the house with a hoodie on, my heart drops, and I think about Trayvon then ask God to keep my son safe. I pray for Justice to be executed upon George Zimmerman. And I pray he comforts all of our hearts and give us peace, especially Trayvon’s mother Sybrina Milton.

      • This is a tragedy that bothers me immensly. But its more to do with the human beings around it. How they’re all willing to participate in the cover up of the murder of a child. Not just GZ but I strongly feel that TM was trying to get to the nearest lights and that was Jeremy’s home and he was the person he was saying help me too. They didn’t help and they lied about what they were doing.

        The police and the fact they had to be sued to release the 911 calls, otherwise this crime would’ve disappeared and TM would’ve been demonized as a black guy who attacked him for doing his duties. Renee Stutzman, CNN, Fox News of course, Alan Douchebagnowitz(spelling?) all saying that this prosecution is really persecution as if to there is no reason to even investigate this case because obviously they didn’t know or chose to ignore the facts.

        All these people and the many GZ supporters are all fighting with every bit of irrational arguments they can contemplate. But what’s worse is they’re hoping America accepts the concept that any black kid can be the type thug characterization found on TV/Movies. Hence they should accept that TM was one of them based on pictures of him giving the bird. With TM, GZ and supporters are demonizing every black youth in America and his brother just simply confirms it. How sick his mother and father must be while they trash their son as if he’s a stereotype that deserved to die.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        They will fail, Leroy. Compassion and truth and respect for life will win this time.

      • nocamo33 says:

        My firm belief is that Trayvon entered God’s peace shortly after his life on this earth was stolen from him. Of this I have zero doubt.

      • SoulSistaWoo says:

        You are not alone in your strong emotional attachment to this case… I have cried for Trayvon and I still cry for Trayvon everytime I think of how he died… I can not listen to the 911 call with the screams, I almost can’t stand to see his face and whenever I read someones account on here about how he died, I have to excuse myself, go to the restroom where I cry for Trayvon… I am in tears typing this.

        I apologize to Trayvon for the way he died, I tell him how sorry I am that he had to come into contact with Fogen, I am sorry he lived on an earth that has people who can cheer on the murder of child, it becomes a financial winfall for the murderer… This case has exposed some very ugly truths…

        • Deborah says:


          Hey SoulSista:

          I know how you are feeling. I cry too. I no longer listen to the 911 phone call because it is to distressing to me. I get ANGRY when I hear the Zimbots state that this is Fogen screaming! They know damn well that this is not Fogen screaming for his Mom. They also know that Fogen did not have his head bashed into the ground several times. When I talk about medical science and what happens to an individual when that type of violence is inflicted upon them and also to the hands of the inflicter, they discount it. It is like they have totally lost all critical reasoning and thought! There racism is deep and it is just downright disgusting.Yes, and to think that Fogen is profiting of donated funds! He is profiting of the murder of the boy that he shot and killed!!!!! What kind of world do we live in when a murderer can do such a thing? If James Holmes, Adam Lanza, Scott Peterson or Casey Anthony had tried that, they would be blasted in the media, but not Fogen! The dirty blood money that Fogen has received is tainted and it will be his downfall even further into the abyss.Yes, America’s past-time is ugly. They herald the murder of a black kid and the murderer profits from it. SICK, SICK, SICK!

          My only son, was the same age as Trayvon. My son graduates from HS this year and I think about that wonderful milestone in a young persons life, and I cry with Tracy and Sybrina knowing that they will never share that milestone with Trayvon because he was gunned down by that lunatic Fogen.When I watch my son graduate from HS this June with my daughters, my husband and my extended family in attendance, I will be thinking of Sybrina and Tracy and what was stolen from them forever.

      • SoulSistaWoo says:

        @ Deborah says “I get ANGRY when I hear the Zimbots state that this is Fogen screaming! They know damn well that this is not Fogen screaming for his Mom.”

        My point exactly… Why would Fogen scream for his mom.
        That was almost the last thing Trayvon screamed… If I was Sybrina Fulton, I would be insane. Knowing how my child cried out for me and how he was in terror when he died. I don’t think I could mentally handle it.

        But as the saying goes… All that does not kill us only makes us stronger… and Sybrina is in the fight for justice for her child…


      • looneydoone says:

        This is sooo off topic
        Remember my saying our dog had sent a feral cat to make us crazy just days after his passing 14 months ago ? MiSombra finally jumped up onto my lap yesterday …this after a year of having the run of the house on a *don’t dare touch me* agreement 😉

        • cielo62 says:

          AWESOME! (Of course, maybe she’s in heat. Our indoor feral only lets us touch her when she’s in heat.) “Touch” her, but never on our laps!

          Isn’t Easter Grace weird sometimes?  LOL  🙂


      • Trained Observer says:

        Looney — am not sure, but am I to understand you’ve finally passed muster with feral kitty? … Hope so. There might be hope for me with “Visiting Kitty.”

      • looneydoone says:

        Trained Observer,
        Yes, with patience, I suspect your visitor will become more friendly/trusting…but will always have the traits of a feral. Just accept your visitor on it’s terms.

      • groans says:

        Congrats, Looney! We adopted a feral kitten who was orphaned at a few weeks of age when her mom was killed by a car (her only known sibling was also found dead of unknown causes around that time).

        She was 6 or 7 weeks old when we adopted her, and she stayed on my desk, shoulder, or lap for about three weeks – until my husband returned from a long trip, which was a bit unsettling for her. (But at night time, she always vanished – to sleep in some hidden place, somewhere in a pile of boxes we had at the time.)

        She’ll be three years old this spring, and she STILL does not jump on our laps. She’s obviously very fond of us both, but is not a “lap cat” … at all! Only fairly recently does she even curl up in a nearby chair when we watch TV. She much prefers that we join HER outside, where she shows off her prowess (but also follows us around, observing and memorizing our weird activities).

        The very rare occasions in which our cat jumps on my lap – and then meekly crawls up to my chest – is a rather reliable alarm that something’s wrong with her. Otherwise, she clearly chooses to maintain her own “space.” And although she definitely continues to mellow over time, I expect it will be significantly more time before she chooses to jump on our laps for reasons of “mere comfort.”

        So I’m impressed with your progress! Congratulations!

        • cielo62 says:

          Groans and looneydoone- meowzotov! Our fats have unique personalities. Sometimes all you can do us shake our heads and love ’em anyway.

          Sent from my iPod

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