Post trial immunity hearings are a terrible idea

Monday, March 11, 2013

Good morning:

I write today to clear up some remaining uncertainty regarding the timing for a motion for immunity and the immunity hearing.

The motion for immunity is similar to a motion to suppress evidence because, if the motion is granted, the case is over.

Hearings on potentially outcome-determinative motions, such as a motion to suppress evidence, are always held before trial because, if the moving party wins (i.e., the defendant), the case is dismissed and there is no trial. If the defendant loses, the case proceeds to trial, unless he pleads guilty.

For example, let us suppose that a police officer arrested a defendant without probable cause and discovered a rock of crack cocaine in a pocket in the defendant’s jacket during the search incident to the arrest. The defendant is charged with possession of cocaine and pleads not guilty at the arraignment.

The defendant moves to suppress the rock before trial on the ground that the arrest and subsequent search were unlawful because the officer arrested him without probable cause. But for the unlawful arrest, the rock would not have been discovered. Thus, the rock is a “fruit of the poisonous tree” and must be suppressed pursuant to the exclusionary rule. That is, evidence seized unlawfully from a defendant by police cannot be used against the defendant at trial.

Without the cocaine, the prosecution would be unable to prove that the defendant possessed cocaine. Therefore, it would have to dismiss the case and the court would have to grant the motion.

An immunity hearing is similar. If the defendant prevails, the court must grant immunity from criminal prosecution and civil suit. Therefore, the outcome is similar to the motion to suppress. The prosecution cannot proceed and the court must dismiss the case.

While it is theoretically possible to merge a hearing on a motion to suppress evidence into a trial, there is little sense to do so because the issues and attorney strategies are different.

For example, the direct and cross examination of the arresting officer for purposes of the suppression motion will be focused on whether the officer had probable cause to arrest, whereas, the legality of the arrest and subsequent search is not an issue for purposes of the trial. It’s just something that happened and no longer relevant to the ultimate issue the jury must decide. That is, whether the defendant is guilty or not guilty.

I have provided the simplest example of a motion to suppress evidence. They can be far more complicated and last more than one day, such as might be the case when multiple locations are searched, some with search warrants and some without. It makes no sense to waste the juror’s time and risk confusing them with irrelevant evidence and issues.

In the federal and state courts in which I practiced, the courts set deadlines within which to file motions to suppress. Failure to comply with a deadline typically meant the motion was waived, unless you had a good reason for not filing the motion, such as newly discovered evidence that you did not know prior to the deadline.

Federal and state judges hate to summon people for jury duty for cases that can be potentially resolved by outcome-determinative motions prior to trial. They hate even more having to waste jury time with evidence that is irrelevant to the issues the jury must decide.

Although constitutional rights are at stake during hearings on motions to suppress evidence, the courts can and do hold that those rights are waived by failing to assert them in timely fashion.

Just as notice and an opportunity to be heard are important to due process of law, so too is finality. Legal issues that can be decided should be decided. I cannot think of a good reason not to decide the issue of immunity before trial and to deem it waived, if it is not.

I have already written about the potential for constitutional error requiring reversal of a conviction and remand for a new trial here and here, if an immunity hearing is merged into a trial and will not revisit that issue today.

However, I will comment regarding the idea that an immunity hearing could be conducted after trial.

If a jury returns a guilty verdict, the case is over. Since the defendant’s guilt has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, the jury necessarily must have decided that the prosecution proved absence of self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt. The verdict precludes a finding that the defendant proved self-defense by a preponderance of the evidence. Therefore, the immunity motion must be denied.

If the jury acquits the defendant, however, either judge or jury could theoretically decide that the defendant had met his burden of proving by a preponderance of the evidence that he acted in self-defense.

The problem in this situation, however, is that the jury may have acquitted a defendant who did not testify or offer any evidence, which a defendant has a right to do.

Should he now be permitted to put on a case to prove that he acted in self-defense?

Does he have a right to have the jury decide that issue or must the judge decide the issue.

What happens if the defendant testifies and the judge or jury decides they do not believe the defendant and now want to find him guilty?

I do not see any easy answers to these questions.

There is no doubt that the legislature intended that the issue of immunity should be raised and decided before trial and I can think of no good reason to do otherwise.

If I were the judge, I would hold a hearing as soon as possible to consider whether the immunity hearing can be merged with the trial or considered after trial, and if after trial, whether the judge or the jury should decide whether to grant immunity.

These are extremely important issues that should be considered and resolved before trial to avoid a lot of grief later.

If no action is taken, we can only sit back and watch a slow-motion train wreck.

Finally, I want everyone to know that I firmly believe that the defense does not want to have an immunity hearing because they have no defense and the defendant would be crucified on cross examination exposing him to be the liar that he is. They obviously do not want to admit this, so they allowed the court to strike the hearing without formally and publicly waiving it. I doubt that we will hear more from the defense about this issue, since they want it to disappear.

If you like this post and the quality of this site, please consider making a secure donation via Paypal by clicking the yellow donation button in the upper right corner just below the search box.

1,759 Responses to Post trial immunity hearings are a terrible idea

  1. SpecialladyT says:

    Motion to reconsider Crump for deposition.

    Click to access motion_for_reconsideration.pdf

    • racerrodig says:

      Maybe if O’ Mara said “Oh Please, Please, Please, with sugar on top and I promise not not to be such an ass, Oh Please, Pretty Please…….Please, Please, Please…….he wouldn’t hear

      De ~ nied !! so much.

    • cielo62 says:

      Speciallady T~ Don’t those morons know that NO means NO?

      • Xena says:

        Looks like attorney Blackwell will have to come to court and spank O’Mara’s booty. I haven’t read the entire motion, but didn’t Judge Nelson tell the defense to depose Witness 8? The defense cannot rely on Crump’s interview of Witness 8 because he interviewed her, GZ had not been arrested. Subsequently, the State interviewed DeeDee.

        Me thinks that O’Mara is picking a fight he shouldn’t pick. Blackwell should move for sanctions for legal fees.

        • racerrodig says:

          More pathetic smoke & mirrors. O’ Mara actually said “…they lied..” this time around. I guess his next move to call a press conference on the lawn and “…call her out…”
          The desperation is overwhelming. So let me get this straight, if there is a smattering of a chance Dee Dee didn’t stay in a hospital, Fogen is what…off the hook.

          O’ Mara actually said “hospitalized” like “she was admitted and stayed for a specific length of time” He’s off the scale on this one.

          Note to Moron O’ Mara……..depose the actual witness, not the neighbors, not her school friends, not the attorney she talked to, but surprise us and actually follow what the law allowed !! I know it’s real hard, but bear with us on this one……or not, June 10th is getting close.

          • Xena says:

            @racerrodig. O’Mara is playing into the agenda of bigoted racists. I would not say that if the Zimmerman wasp nest had not denigrated, mocked, and used racial nicknames for attorney Crump. Benjamin Crump is not just a Black attorney. He’s a Black attorney who was not ashamed to come on national television and advocate for his clients. He’s a Black attorney who refused to shuffle at the tune of Lee and Wolfinger. He’s a Black attorney with courage.

            Those qualities are not liked by bigoted racists who are insanely mad with the thought of Blacks having too much power. O’Mara has now included himself among them.

          • racerrodig says:

            He’s on some seriously thin ice. Every report I do as a witness gets scrutinized and I get told “…don’t word anything so as to piss of or insult the Judge.”

          • Xena says:


            He’s on some seriously thin ice. Every report I do as a witness gets scrutinized and I get told “…don’t word anything so as to piss of or insult the Judge.”

            Well, that explains why GZ has waived his appearance. At his weight, he would break through the thin ice.

          • Moby fogen…the great white whale…….

            OOPZ….got that wrong

            Moby fogen the great Afro / Peruvian whale…..

            There we go 🙂

            HOODIES UP

          • racerrodig says:

            Did you see what I posted on Xena’s private chat last night? It had to do with paintball ?? You would have loved this.

          • Race….read ur comments….seems we have even more in common……only a land line here…..I DON’T like cell phones……

            Business?……a lot of mine is done thru referrals and “want lists”…..collectors send me lists of specialty items they’re looking for…..I find it in the price range they’re will to pay….buy it / sell it…

            Paintball?……….DO NOT go paint balling in cutoffs and flip flops (did have a face shield)…… wacked in the side of the knee with one……one hell of a welt…..

            scratcher assembled….drying, and awaiting the finish coat…

            For personalization I was thinking along the lines of “RACER PAT”
            If not that…..any suggestions?

            MMP CP Over

          • racerrodig says:

            My man, you can put whatever you’d like. Just make sure you have your “signature” of some sort on it.

            When we go paint balling I wear camo army fatigues which are thick enough to absorb any blows. I have a web gear setup with 4 extra 200 round pods and my air tank is on my back mounted horizontally. I even rigged up and my try to patent, a dual 9.6 volt RC car battery pack setup held by velcro above my air tank. I used an old coiled guitar cord modified with the RC style ends so I can charge it normally. I’d hate to run out of paint, air or volts.

            If it can be “improved on” I’ll try it.

          • racerrodig says:

            I’m pretty sure he’d break through about any ice….just sayin’

          • That’s good Race…..I’ll hire him to break thru the 4 inches of ice where my driveway meets the dirt road…… 🙂

            Last time it was me….a chainsaw…..and a pickaxe 😦

          • racerrodig says:

            MMP “Okay Fogen…..a little farther……that’s it…..a little more……just a bit more, keep going (cracking sound KerSplash)”

            racer “……hmmmmmm I guess I should have handed him this safety line, Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa”

            MMP “….nother beer ?”

            racer “….only if it’s on me !”

          • Outside work done for the say…..gotz me a cold Bud goin’ now 🙂

            Went to “town” this morning…….Do a google earth search and look up Florissant Colo……..The BIG city of 2 convience stores… gas station….1 bar…..1 coffee shop…….1 post office….and 1 feed store……And I’m 7 miles north of that….and dirt road all the way 🙂

          • racerrodig says:

            Only 1 gas station……not much competition.

        • SpecialladyT says:

          Xena, I am also sickened with this defense and their tactic to go after Attorney Crump when they have been instructed to depose DD on numerous occasions by Judge Nelson.

          My concern is that Attorney Crump stated in his affidavit that there was no discussion in between pauses and the defense motion states there was. Can this be grounds for deposition?

          • Xena says:


            My concern is that Attorney Crump stated in his affidavit that there was no discussion in between pauses and the defense motion states there was. Can this be grounds for deposition?

            The defense lies. I listened to the ABC recording and the only time I heard attorney Crump speak with DeeDee when his recorder was not running was before he turned it on. The entire ABC recording is not available to the public, but it seems to me that Crump telling DeeDee to wait until he checked something on his recorder is not the type of “speaking to DeeDee” that has any significance of her statement.

      • Rachael says:

        I know. Pathetic, isn’t it.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Xena, the defense is really like Racer said, skating on thin ice with Judge Nelson. is there anything that can be done about O’mara for his trying this case at the directions of those bigoted racist who wish to see a *MURDER* walk free? from what I’ve read from one of the Trayvon supporters over at HP, O’mara has been a very naughty attorney in regards to the donations. also, some over there feel that, one of Fogen’s minions has turned *STATES EVIDENCE* in order to receive immunity. they also say that not only did he get an office upgrade out of some of the money donted to Fogen by idiots, he also *BOUGHT AN OFFICE BUILDING!*

        As for him still harping about getting DeeDee’s medical records, this would be a way of him getting her address. I feel that the court needs to pull both him and West off of this case because, of all of the shady dealings with Racist morons who want to do harm to this girl and other witnesses. they have no right to anybody’s medical records or their addresses. O’mara is the most corrupt attorney, that I have ever laid my eyes on.

        It seems to me that, they should be in some kind of trouble with the Florida bar, for some of the corrupt BS that they have been involved in where the Doxing Tree House is concerned. they might be yet because, there are going to be some folks finding themselves charged with doxing or cyber bullying over at the dog house. I have a feeling that this is why they will no longer be discussing this case over there.

        Also, why is it that Fogen and those family members of his, who were involved in moving all of that money around, not in any kind of trouble with the feds? isn’t what they were doing called *MONEY LAUNDERING?

        • Xena says:


          …for some of the corrupt BS that they have been involved in where the Doxing Tree House is concerned. they might be yet because, there are going to be some folks finding themselves charged with doxing or cyber bullying over at the dog house. I have a feeling that this is why they will no longer be discussing this case over there.

          Observation. Process of elimination. When suggesting other blogs for the Zimmerman wasp nest to collect at, what blog was omitted from the list? The one managed by the admitted violator of cyber laws. They know who among them to avoid, including the criminal’s relatives — and they also know why.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Xena, it’s really sad to see what these tree slum B******$ have turned this murder case of an innocent barley seventeen year old into. for them to be calling attorney Crump names because of his race, is very ignorant of them and, they are giving the rest of the world a front row seat, to see RACISM IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. they are actually making this country out to be the worst country in the world, by the way they are supporting a child killer and, by the way they slander, defame and, deamonize this deceased kid as well as his family.

        With people like these living among us here in America, why would anybody from another country want to move here? and again I say, there has *NEVER* been another murdered child/person, in this country who has been so disrespected except this one. Trayvon never hurt anyone and that includes his murderer and, here we have these morons being very disrespectful of a deceased kid who they never knew. how much more ignorant can they get? SMDH

        • racerrodig says:

          Well said. Imagine if the shoe was on the other foot. That is and Afro – Peruvian / White / Whatever murdered one of their kids and claimed self defense. The chances are the defendant really would need security.

          • Ya know… this point…..I could really give a shit……

            He either gets convicted……or sucks lead………either way he’s gone……it can go no other way.

            Although if he hates fags? Then westboro might protest for his release?

          • racerrodig says:

            You’re really sure he’ll take one aren’t you. I don’t think he has the guts actually. If he does, we’ll read………….

            “The man convicted of (or charged with) the murder of a 17 year old high school student that was unarmed and walking home attempted suicide today. FogenPhoole Zidiot allegedly used a pistol in the attempt, however he missed and merely grazed his skull.”

            “The killer of Trayvon Martin, who was gunned down on Feb. 26th 2012, is said to be in mentally unstable condition. Zidiot claims he was standing his ground when he was savagely assaulted verbally by his cellmate (or SheLie) and had no alternative. He stated he was “…about to run out of time..”

            Zidiot’s only other comment was “….great, now I have two stupid looking parts in my hair”

            “His brother Robert Zidiot jr stated this is just another in a long line of misunderstandings as all Afro – Peruvians are subject to abuse. Zidiot jr stated that the family is fresh out of diapers and spoons and it’s “…a good thing his aim was off…” When asked why he would attempt suicide Zidiot jr. Zidiot jr said a new website in his name would be launched for his benefit in the near future. For further information on the website refer to”

            “Not many details are known yet however his attorney Mark O’ Mara has blamed the New Black Panther party for not inviting Zidiot into their ranks. O’ Mara has stated he will file a Motion “for the hell of it”

            “O’ Mara stated Zidiot plans to file a lawsuit against all gun manufacturers and all makers of ammunition for “…providing him the means to commit murder” O’ Mara stated “…they should have known better” The NRA is also being named as a co-defendant in the civil lawsuit.”

            “A representative for the NRA, while reluctant to comment officially did say “ the hell did he miss at that range”

  2. Nef05 says:

    While waiting for the Prof to update the site and due to long load times…


  3. ay2z says:

    You can’t be screaming for your life when you have someone’s hand on his…. err… your nose and your other…. err… his other hand on your mouth.

    With “all his weight” on his mouth and nose, his concern was his painful nose and not his inability to breathe. You’d be panicking for a breath, with adrenalin taking over. You would get your ‘broken nose’ blood on his hands, you would get a jab at his side, or ribs, or pinch his skin somewhere, if he was hunched over as claimed, you could get tingers into his eyes if only to momentarily be allowed a sbreath of air.

    Then comes the forgotten name person to the Hannity show, and he says this:

    …… he started to try to suffocate me. And I continued to take — push his hands off of my mouth and my nose,

    “Continued to take”…. continued to push his hands off….”?

    Sounds like he says he was able to take, to push hands off. He didn’t say that when he told his stories of getting the gun and shooting.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Actually he’s an idiot and he’s trying to conceal the fact that he was never in harms way at all, because Trayvon was too timid. GZ had superiority all the way, there was no reason for him to shoot Trayvon, but he decided to just do it and take the poor kids life from him, just for the fun of it. GZ needs to rot in hell for the rest of his miserable life.

      • whonoze says:

        Trayvon wasn’t THAT timid. He let GZ catch up to him, and demanding to know why he was being followed. He did not bow to Zimmerman’s will, which led to the confrontation becoming physical. When things got physical he obviously did something to try to fight back or get away, resulting in Zimmerman’s minor injuries.

        I certainly don’t believe TM smashed GZ’s head into the concrete, but he may have been on top of Zimmerman early in the struggle (the “wrestling” described by witnesses), especially if, as likely IMHO, the two were rolling over each other. At some point GZ did get those two cuts on the back of his head, and I’ve always thought it likely they came from rolling over the broken utility/sprinkler cover.

        And while Trayvon may have been on top of GZ at some point that doesn’t necessarily mean he was in control of the situation, as GZ still could have had a hold on his clothes or his arm or wrist.

        Since I don’t buy any of the theories positing a conspiracy to capture or kill TM, I have a hard time believing JohnW6’s testimony is totally fabricated. I think the cops convinced him to greatly exaggerate what he saw to fit their desired narrative. But even after his recantations about seeing blows, and knowing who was screaming, he still insists he saw Trayvon on top. I think he may have. He seems to have seen only the earliest part of the struggle, then immediately hustled upstairs to safety with his then-injured-fiance. (I would guess they made their retreat even before W11 connected with 911.) So TM could have been on top momentarily at the beginning, but without having any kind of control (“strattle” position my arse), which John may have seen, but then GZ gained and held the advantage thereafter (why else would Trayvon be screaming in anguish?).

        • cielo62 says:

          Whonoze- how do you account for ZERO DNA on Trayvons hands or clothes? I don’t think TM did anything whatsoever to touch GZ. That idiot got those scratches on his face from something else, maybe tree branches, maybe the recoil. But NOT from even a glancing blow from Trayvon.

          Sent from my iPod

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            @no one in particular :

            It’s amazing eh? Trayvon is non violent, a peaceful and happy child. Yet, despite all we’ve learned about him, and despite there being not a scintilla of evidence to indicate it, people who otherwise insist that evidence is needed to speculate, will continue to speculate that Trayvon took a swing at and probably hit GZ. No evidence needed.

            Yet, when I point out that assistance is needed for GZ to leave home in time to catch TM at the mail shed. That is put down to coincidence. Imagine that, eh? With no shopping trip planned at all, because there’s no money for any such trip, nor is the wife, who accompanies him on such a trip, there to go with him.

            So, he manages to pick a time of day to leave home and what luck, he manages to run into Trayvon at the mail shed. Know what’s wrong with this picture? Well, if that was the truth, then why did he cook up a lie that would conceal the fact that someone notified him? After all, there isn’t any law that I know of, that prohibits chance encounters, and he did call NEN so why not just tell the truth?

            The answer is “guilty knowledge”. They’re all concealing their involvement because they know that the coincidence story isn’t believable and they also know that any plan at all, would prove that GZ is the aggressor. And that in its turn would mean that their lies had a purpose to deceive and thwart the investigation, which it almost did until it was detected and corrected.

            So that the only coincidence remaining is that Trayvon picked this time to go to the store. And what another lucky coincidence for GZ, if those three stooges at 711 had not held Trayvon up for 5 minutes, Trayvon would probably have made it home before the rain made it necessary for him to take shelter at the mail boxes. He’d have been home even before GZ got in his truck.

            But no, those guys at 711 didn’t know Trayvon and Trayvon didn’t know them? Yeah, right!

      • whonoze says:

        @ cielo
        If GZ received the cuts on the back of his head by rolling over a sharp or rough object on the ground that would not transfer blood or DNA to Trayvon. If Trayvon hit GZ in the nose, causing it to bleed, the blood would not flow immediately, and Trayvon would have gotten no blood on his hands.

        I’ve walked through tree branches and gotten scratches. They don’t wind up on the back of your head, nor do they bleed that profusely. Not that such cuts would result from getting ones head pounded either IMHO (i’d expect to see way more damage from anything like that), but I’m not a doctor.

        The lack of DNA on Trayvon’s clothes is a problem for the prosecution, since GZ’s nose was bleeding (though how much is certainly in dispute). If GZ had been in a superior position over Trayvon, you’d think some of the blood from his nose would have dripped onto the hoodie. I know LLMPapa has suggested both GZ and TM may have been upright when the shot was fired, but W18, who was watching when the gun went off, says they were still on the ground.

        @ lonnie
        It’s possible GZ passed the clubhouse by coincidence while he was on ‘routine patrol.’ I still think it more probable that someone alerted him to TM ‘loitering’ under the mail awning. This would hardly constitute a conspiracy, and would not likely have involved W6, who lives too far away to notice TM near the clubhouse. I would guess a tipster would most likely have lived across RVC from the clubhouse.

        A big angry guy with a gun doesn’t need help in killing an unarmed teenager.

        I do not understand your point about the ‘three stooges’.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          You’ve got one heck of a bunch of dismissing in there, but they’re all independent of one another. They can only stand alone, they cannot stand when they are connected to other parts of the saga. As far as “the three stooges”, keep reading , eventually you’ll get it. Probably after they’ve been caught.

          The fact remains that if GZ could not have done this on his own, then he needs assistance. The facts show that he could not have done this on his own, therefore there were assistants. The fact that we don’t know who they were, or where and exactly how much assistance they provided, or why, does not make them go away.

          For instance, lets take the instance of GZ saying that those sounds we hear on the NeN tape are him rapping on his flashlight to get it to work. Now we know that he’s a liar, who lies at the drop of a hat. We also know that if those sounds were not of him rapping on his flashlight, the alternatives we could imagine can be quite incriminating. Therefore it would hardly be any wonder that GZ would lie about it, if it was anything else. So, now, if the flashlight is troublesome for GZ, we should expect it will be just as troublesome for anyone else, right? But when Serino tries it, it’s suddenly a flawless performer. Are we to believe that the flashlight somehow corrected it’s problems coincidentally? Or is it more likely that the flashlight is not what those knocks were about?

          Also weighing matters against the flashlight being the cause of the knocking is that, there’s also the sound of what seems like a gun being handled in the area at about the same time. Obviously if GZ is on the phone at the same time he’s supposedly holding and rapping on his flashlight, the gun handling sounds, or whatever else they might be, are being produced by the actions of someone else in the area close by, eh?

          Oh and before I forget to mention, if there was someone else in the truck with GZ they’d have only needed to stay out of sight for approximately 2 minutes. Not a long time to simply scrunch down a bit in the seat, or lay on the back seat. Such that when GZ first exclaims “He’s running”, he’s also telling his companion that he can get up now.

          In the same vein “Call my wife” can be a false announcement to make it appear that “my wife” isn’t already here!

      • Jun says:

        I think yall are trippin

        Whonoze, I do not believe you have ever witnessed or had a real bloody nose, unless your comment was meant as sarcasm or something. The lack of dna is a problem for Fogen and Omara. Do not believe me? Watch GSP vs BJ Penn 1. BJ Penn lands one clean shot on GSP’s nose and immediately, GSP is bleeding profusely, with blood dropping onto himself and all over, splattering and smearing everywhere in the cage, and also onto BJ Penn, off of one punch. So if Fogen is claiming this huge fight and there is no dna transfer whatsoever or barely on either party, even less so on Trayvon’s hands, sleeves, cuffs, it shows the lack of evidence of such a fight ever occurring. Also making a hard strike to the nose, the nose would bleed immediately. There would be evidence of epithelial transfer at the least and there was no evidence of such occurring. Simply touching something leaves fingerprints and dna transfer. How’s Fogen supposed to claim he had a bloody nose and broken, when the blood did not even make it past his bottom lip, and there was none at all dripped onto Trayvon from his nose? No smears, splatters, nothing. Fogen could have also caused the bloody nose or just smeared blood on his tip of his nose, after killing Trayvon, hence no transfer whatsover. There’s no way he had a broken or a bloody nose, and not have any blood smearing, dripping, splattering all over himself and Trayvon.

        Whonoze, your theory of ground scratching does not make sense either, because, a cut, even superficial, would bleed immediately. If you look at his bleeding, it all dripped downward. There was no smearing or splattering, which would occur if he was rolling around with those injuries. His bleeding just bled downward and then stopped at his chin.

        • cielo62 says:

          Jun- with you 100%. Blood is a messy, sticky liquid. And you can’t break a nose without getting bruises to your knuckles. IIRC Trayvon had no bruises anywhere, not even his knuckles. That includes no defensive bruises such as covering up and getting punched. Trayvon tried to run away, was on the ground trying to get up and run, GZ grabs the shirts with one hand and shoots Trayvon through the heart with the other. Not too hard to envision.

          Sent from my iPod

      • Jun says:

        Look for yourself

        GSP is bleeding profusely and was not even knocked down and his nose was not broken

        Look how much blood is all over GSP’s mouth

        Joe Rogan makes an excellent point that bleeding from the nose would make it difficult to breathe, yet Fogen’s signs showed normal levels, when a bloody broken nose would cause the heart beat and lungs to operate in overtime because of trouble breathing

        Watch the second round as the nose continues to bleed and gets all over BJ Penn

        And the punch was not even hard contact, just a grazing shot and continues to bleed afterward into the second and the third round

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Exactly, and the nose is full of oil glands and sacs that store oil, punch the nose an you get a coating of oil and cells on the hands. All it takes is a touch to the skin of another person to transfer trace to your hands. If Trayvon’s hands had touched GZ’s skin, there would be GZ’s DNA under his nails.

          Further Trayvon was timid, he did not let GZ catch up to him. Trayvon had run out of steam and was trapped. Probably because, without any training at all, most children, when frightened go all out trying to escape danger and they simply burn themselves out too quickly. A better trained person will pace themselves and be able to last longer.

          All Trayvon did was, when he found himself trapped, unable to run any longer, he turned and asked “Why are you following me for?”, but that was not a challenge but a hopeful plea. His last hope was that this nightmare would end with GZ giving him a reasonable answer. GZ, on the other hand, decided to issue a challenge and follow it up by getting physical, which is why they wound up on the ground. When he grabbed Trayvon, Trayvon dropped to the ground in the hopes that the fall would break GZ’s grip on him so that he could get up and run. Obviously that didn’t work and GZ pulled him back down. Trayvon never even thought of throwing any blows, since he couldn’t possibly imagine them having any effect on this huge, strong monster.

          • racerrodig says:

            Not only that, I think Trayvon felt throwing punches is against the law…..Fogen being a stranger and all. He wouldn’t want to be accused of attacking an Afro – Peruvian wacko.

  4. ladystclaire says:

    There is an idiot over at HP who goes by the name False Narrative, who is using Trayvon’s graduation photo from kindergarten as his/her avatar. I don’t know if his family can prohibit this from going on but, I think they should try. there is no level too darn low for these people to stoop to. I can’t believe those who still blog on that site about this case, hasn’t said something about this person doing that.

    These people don’t give a damn how they disrespect this kid who they never knew and, he never harmed anybody in his short life. this makes me so damn angry to see these ignorant B******S mistreat this child in such a rude manner. I hope something bad happens to every last one of them. enough of their shit is enough!

    • @ladystclaire

      I had to leave HP b/c the trolls practically took over. HP would approve the most offensive comments of theirs about a dead child to be published despite complaints/flagging. I just couldn’t take any more. But soon and very soon, justice will be served and Trayvon can rest in peace.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @SG2, I left there as well because, those very trolls had me banned and, I will *NEVER* go back for an account there for nothing. I did not violate their so called guidlines either. you are spot on in every word you have said.

        HP just literally allowed these ignorant racist pointy heads, to just take over that site. they did indeed allow the most hateful comments on behalf of those who support a child murderer to be posted. no matter how much we would flag and report, nothing was ever done about them and, it never will.

        You can go as far as sending them an email about this and, they still do *NOTHING!* IMO what HP is doing is not right and, it just goes to prove just how morally bankrupt they are!

      • Puck says:

        AOL ruined HP like it ruined Usenet in the 90s.

  5. Mary Davis says:

    I just e-mailed the Professor, no response yet.

  6. ay2z says:

    The Baez thread is much faster

    • Is that where everyone has gone?

      • ay2z says:

        No, don’t see anyone there.

        I just found the interview by Jahvaris, Trayvon’s brother. The photo of Tray on horseback, was only days before his encounter with his killer. Not going to put the link here, but if anyone wants to watch it, add the prefix and cnn dot com to this url


  7. ay2z says:

    re case against SZ, update to the docket, taking deposition filed as of March 14.
    Nothing new for the fogenfile/

  8. ay2z says:

    Thanks, Xena and Unitron, we (ahemmm,,, yours truly) should be more careful and selective.

    If anyone is interested in an example of the Rene Stuzman issue as she confronts Charles Blow, Natalie Jackson, on Lawrence O’Donnell,, here’es the name of the article on YouTube, posted by politicalarticles. I’m not going to add another vid to this page.

    Title: Trayvon Martin Lynching: Lawrence O’Donnell Challenges Orlando Sentinel

  9. ladystclaire says:

    If it’s not asking too much, can someone please tell me why exactly does the defense feel the need to depose the victims family. somehow this just doesn’t seem right IMO. what is it that they think by deposing them will in any way be helpful to them? are they going to depose the murderers family as well? that would be one more lie fest.

    I can’t forget the lying father of Fogen reading from his script during his first Fox interview. I can’t stand that man and, I would love the chance to spit in his prune face.

    • Xena says:


      If it’s not asking too much, can someone please tell me why exactly does the defense feel the need to depose the victims family.

      The defense has no reason(s). That is why they wanted their addresses, so they can dig in their garbage cans and watch to see when they go to the bathroom — stuff like that — hoping to have information that they can question them about. Or to say it another way, questions designed to intimidate, frustrate, and use to emotional blackmail.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Xena, ay2z and type1juve, thank you guys so very much, you are the best! this defense team is one of the dirtiest that I have ever seen. never before have I ever heard of a lawyer filing a motion with the court, seeking permission to have access to addresses of witnesses, members of the victims family or anybody else for that matter. it’s very evident that the lead attorney for Fogen does not in any way know what he is doing. for O’money to have so many years of experience as an attorney, he is not doing a bit better than a green upstart like Baez. they are both the slime of the earth.

        Trayvon will get his justice and then the little angel can rest in peace. if Jon, Jeremy and Jenna had any morals between them, they would tell all that they know. it’s very obvious to me, that they all know more than they are telling LE. if I were in their shoes and there was a chance that my name would be coming up in Fogen’s sealed correspondence, I would be singing like a minor bird while at the same time, throwing myself at the mercy of the state for some kind of immunity. BTW, HAPPY St PATRICK’S DAY TO YOU ALL.

        • Xena says:


          this defense team is one of the dirtiest that I have ever seen.

          What more can we expect since they take legal and procedural advice from the Zimmerman wasp nest?

          never before have I ever heard of a lawyer filing a motion with the court, seeking permission to have access to addresses of witnesses, members of the victims family or anybody else for that matter.

          But then that information can’t slip out to certain people in Florida who under the guise of “vetting,” and “investigating” gives that information to their minions to do their dirty work to harass, defame, and emotionally blackmail.

          Why do you think that the Zimmerman wasp nest attacked O’Mara and not West? It’s so West could see the attack and be afraid of what they will say about him if he doesn’t get those addresses.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Xena I’m so glad that Judge Nelson denied their motion and, it seems to me that the Florida Bar should disbar the both of them because of the fact that they are taking advice and orders from a bunch of rag tag band of *RACIST IDIOTS* who want to see this murdering POS, get away with killing an AA child.

        This is such a sad, sad case and what these people are doing is so wrong. these people just make me so ill and, what they are doing is hurtful to me.

        • Xena says:


          @Xena I’m so glad that Judge Nelson denied their motion and, it seems to me that the Florida Bar should disbar the both of them …

          Bar Associations are very lenient. It’s unlikely that the Bar will get involved in how O’Mara and West proceed in defending their client.

          O’Mara and West are already paying for their lack of ethics. O’Mara has shown in open court that he knows the Zimmerman wasp nest violates law, and West has shown in open court that he disrespects orders of the court by persistently arguing with the judge. Just wait until trial. That snake that they represent cannot change his nature.

    • ay2z says:

      Well, the fogen’s lawyers will want to ask Sybrina about her reaction to hearing the cries on the 911 call, and who she thought was screaming and crying for help. They will also want to go after Tracy’s statement about ‘no’, allegedly overheard by Irwin. How often would someone hear their child cry before being killed, and want to say ‘no!’, not my child! They need to discredit the parents.

      Tehy want to know if Trayvon had violent tendencies, and they probably want to catch them in some sort of inconsistency (that they can call a lie).

    • type1juve says:

      ladystclaire, you owe me a new keyboard lol!

  10. Mary Davis says:

    @ Everyone. I’m going to e-mail the Professor now. Will let you know if I get a response.

  11. ay2z says:

    Going to put a Saturday night tune on the jukebox over there. What version to shoose, Elvis,Little Richard, or….

    • Xena says:

      Keep in mind that embedded Youtube videos slow down blogs when there are numerous embedded videos. Word Press has to load the Youtube app. before it can display the blog page or before the blog page is accessible to posting comments.

      • onlyiamunitron says:

        “Keep in mind that embedded Youtube videos slow down blogs when there are numerous embedded videos. Word Press has to load the Youtube app. before it can display the blog page or before the blog page is accessible to posting comments.”

        Running Firefox with Flashblock installed can help avoid that, while still allowing you to load and play the video if you want to without having all of them loaded.


        • Xena says:


          Running Firefox with Flashblock installed can help avoid that, while still allowing you to load and play the video if you want to without having all of them loaded.

          I just installed Firefox last night and while this page is faster than when using Chrome, it’s still slow. At least Flash is not crashing, however.

      • @Xena

        I’m not computer savvy…So when all videos go to a blank white page…flash has crashed?

        • Xena says:


          I’m not computer savvy…So when all videos go to a blank white page…flash has crashed?

          It may have not loaded, or it may have crashed. Chrome loads its own Flash and there is a way to disable it so that Flash loads from your harddrive. However, that didn’t work for me — for whatever reason, Chrome’s flash continued to load — and crash.

  12. colin black says:

    SouthernGirl2 says:

    March 16, 2013 at 8:04 pm

    Loading is difficult for me too

    @Its because the page is to long word press has trouble loading due to long runnning script ie
    Thosand plus replys.
    It slows down the page.
    Everyones avvin proplemos.
    Thats why im concerned over crane an fred.

  13. ay2z says:

    OOH! I just learned that I get notifications!! I’ve probably missed a lot of responses, trying to find posts again, sorry if so.

    • gbrbsb says:

      It took me several months to realise first to sign in so as to get the menu bar and then that the speech balloon glowed yellow when there was a response to a comment I made! I tried getting comments by email but… I felt overwhelmed with so many emails so I stopped it.

  14. Nef05 says:

    I’m having difficulties loading the page and getting constant script errors. Anyone else? If so, can’t we just move the converstion back to the

    Jose Baez thread

    w/ only 200 or so posts, in an effort to make posting easier just until the Prof gets a minute or two to put up an open thread or a new post? Just a thought…

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Hehheh. 😀 We’re a buncha thread junkies!

    • Loading is difficult for me too.

    • ay2z says:

      no script errors here, but slow loading, and I suspect that’s our fault.

      Finding it helps to clear cache regularly or reset browser if you have that option. Quit the browser at the same time, and reopen seems to help. Patience too.

    • that’s a good idea. I haven’t even read that one since I’ve been busy last week with stuff.. i’ll meet you there 🙂

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Good idea, I’m getting the same things, long loading times and script errors, which also make people think their computer is under some sort of nefarious attack. But yes, now that you mention it we are free to move from thread to thread.

      Okay, Nef05, here’s the drill:

      1. One person (you) go to that thread and get the link for it, and post it to this one where we are reading.

      2. Give notice that we’ll be moving to shorter threads from time to time.

      3 Post a message to that thread merely saying “YOU ARE HERE”.

      4. Anyone who hasn’t signed on to the thread we are currently using won’t get the “You are here” message. But they will get the link here, so they can go over and follow it.

      Great idea, thanks. let’s do it.

  15. colin black says:

    Mountainmanpats fuerther up this answers an theres a lot offf em.
    Someone posted a link from the gzlegal site.
    An where they had promised there supporters.
    A COUNT A BILLY BUDDY of all bills out going incomeings ect.

    To be tottaly transperent.
    An since new Fund Controler printed there short period covering a ocrds .ouple off months off financial records.
    Of the top o my head I THINK IT WAS 57 Grand in
    Out goings …Liveing exxpences 12 grnd? not sure .
    16 Grand on experts micellanious an thousands on other stuff PInvestigaters an the like.

    But what jumpped out to me unless I miss read was five hundred bucks per week for security.

    From seven grand to one fourteenth of that now needed to protect his ass.
    An considering the rate its growing target wise .
    Thats one bill you would have thought would increase an all thease creepy dudes wi summit up wi them would make his security bill sky rocket as fast as it leaves his pocket.

    But know opposite infact.
    If I were a cynical type I would be tempted to think no credible threat has ever existed.

  16. This reminds me of when Bcclist became unattended. I hope we hear something from the Prof soon… even an open thread. Anyone have an inside scoop on any issues with this blog? I really like hanging out here and have made several contributions to show my support.

    • racerrodig says:

      This is a great place, the only “issue” just like anywhere is that a Zidiot will troll through from time to time, play “nice” and just seem to be playing “devils advocate” after a day or so they show what they really are, can’t take the heat and back out.

      • ay2z says:

        yeah, but we can’t take that personally or feel fooled by them, I just try to be aware without being too suspicious.

  17. aussie says:

    NBC files for stay of proceedings in GZ’s suit against them.

    Click to access defendants-motion-to-stay-proceedings.pdf

    Page 19 is particularly interesting; they seem to think the suit might be an excuse to depose witnesses much more easily than for the murder trial (a lot of the witnesses being the same).

    • He’s cooked

      Any news on his bill for security?

      • type1juve says:

        Looks like he may have effed himself even more by not waiting to file this lawsuit. Yep, his ass is grass lol!

        • Ya know….it just goes to show how stupid fogen is………

          Going to trial on murder 2……..

          And wants to piss off….by suing the……a MAJOR media outlet….

          Like they’ll have anything good to say about him in their reports now….

          Can BDLR enter this into evidence also? 🙂

          Doesn’t this POS know he’s done yet?

          • racerrodig says:

            Just how stupid is Fogen?? He couldn’t pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were written on the heel.

          • Ya know Race…we should sit around a fire sometime as we use many of the same euphemisms….Pouring piss out of a boot and such…..Yeah and my widdle black heart bleeds purple panther piss for him……..

            BTW…..handle sanded and stained….jaw notched…..ready for U soon 🙂

          • racerrodig says:

            That sounds like a plan, my man !! My wife is beside herself about having a custom made back scratcher.

            And not only would Fogen get his feet wet in them boots, he couldn’t find a fart in a phone booth.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Farts abound within Camp Fogen as only our collective nose knows, but has anybody been able to find a phone booth of late?

    • Trained Observer says:

      This filing is a great read, step-by-step covering many of the media oriented machinations transpiring since Trayvon’s murder, and between the lines making it abundantly clear that Fogen did indeed racially profile Trayvon with his own words against a pattern of previous calls to cops. Team Fogen’s ambition for a quick settlement peeks through nicely, yet they screw themselves with their own words in other filings that are quoted within. Page 19 is juicy, as Aussie says, and so are many others.

      • racerrodig says:

        It is a great read and I love the way it infers “..if this many other outlets said this first, why are we the only ones being sued?”

    • ay2z says:

      Thanks, Aussie,

      REad through the motion, except for the legal arugments so far.. Rachel Fugate is on the job!

      This will be interesting.

    • gbrbsb says:

      @aussie said:

      “Page 19 is particularly interesting; they seem to think the suit might be an excuse to depose witnesses much more easily than for the murder trial (a lot of the witnesses being the same).”

      And IMO very clever as IMO it makes for extremely compelling arguments for a stay.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        The motion is so hard hitting, it’s practically a mini trial in itself. My guess is they wrote it that way so that, if MOM were smart he’d pull the suit, rather than have this motion out there for all to read. It seriously damages his case.

        • gbrbsb says:

          Yes, a really aggressive start giving MOM & Co a clear view of the fight to come if they press on. I personally don’t think they will pull because they are financially in too deep now and I bet their relying on this case to be paid they’ll doubtfully get much from GZ even if he walked unless through compensation claims like this.

    • ladystclaire says:

      @MMP, LMAO about the purple panther piss!

    • Kelly Payne says:

      Ruined his reputation? Is he kidding? He never had much of a reputation to began with. He ruined his own reputation when he murdered a 17 year old while he begged for his life. GIVE ME A BREAK..

      • Xena says:

        @Kelly Payne

        He ruined his own reputation when he murdered a 17 year old while he begged for his life. GIVE ME A BREAK..

        BINGO!! I suppose he’s going to blame the media for his massive weight gain too.

        • racerrodig says:

          I guess Fogen took that add “Every night is Pizza Night” literally, or was it KFC ? Wendy’s …….whatever, he’s the size of a house, as we used to say.

      • Trained Observer says:

        His reputation? What reputation? Before blasting Trayvon through the heart, Fogen was an academic dullard about to become a community college flunkout with a pile of debts and lousy credit history including stiffing a former lawyer who hopscotched from job to job, getting sacked at least twice along the way — once from a gig as a bouncer, and another as a used car salesman. Contrary to Sanford cop claims of a clean record, he had a rap sheet that included assaulting an undercover cop, plus a history involving restraining orders with a former fiancee. And for an added touch, a cousin has accused him of long-term sexual molestation.

        So go ahead MOM, and you, too, Fogen … tell us all about how your reputation as a deadbeat dunce got ruined by NBC.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          The value of the lawsuit is obviously null, dependent as it is on the value of GZ’s reputation, which couldn’t get him so much as a napkin at Starbucks. Where he would be told “get it yourself”! Since his reputation as a cheapskate non-tipper would proceed him. The court would have to ask; “So? What was the loss?”

          While on the other hand, the Respondent can file pre-trial motions, that do just like MOM did in the criminal case. Motions that fill the air with blistering criticism and other ideas that might otherwise not see the light of day. Remember, MOM’s side now needs to reply. Then, if the judge does not issue a summary judgement, oral arguments will be a real ‘B’, as high public interest drives the worlds eyes towards that little court room, where NBC is sure to raise numerous hard biting issues and claims, along with their support of their motion.

          For Fogen and his attorney’s it will be something akin to having grabbed a tiger by the tail, they dare not let go, even as they regret having grabbed hold. 😀 Poor babies… But as you know, what goes around…

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        After the bail hearing, the judge and/or the jury is going to rule that GZ’s reputation wasn’t worth a half full bag of Cheetos! 😀

      • groans says:

        @ Lonnie – I don’t disagree with what you wrote.

        But don’t get too far ahead of yourself, procedurally. NBC filed a Motion to Stay the defamation case proceedings – not a motion for summary judgment. All NBC asks right now is to hold off any defamation case proceedings until after the criminal trial.

        It’s my understanding from the NBC motion that NBC hasn’t even filed its answer to the Complaint (though an OS report suggested that it had … but then, what half-way informed, thinking person believes any OS reports anymore, especially since the OS didn’t provide any link to any supposed “responsive pleadings”).

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          You mis read me. NBC has filed a motion to stay. On that motion, the judge can either give a summary judgement and rule without further ado. Or he can decide to have a full hearing on the motion and let each side defend their position. So that’s the issue I’m addressing.

          If the Judge decides to hear oral arguments on the motion to stay, NBC’s lawyers can do even more damage to MOM’s case, by working the release of more information into the arguments. Hoisting MOM on his own petard.

    • Jun says:

      It is fairly simple

      Wanna know why people do not think I am a crazy racist?

      It is because I did not stalk and target a 17 year old teenage kid and try to frame him, and then terrorize and kill the 17 year old teenage kid

      I also did not screw a lot of people throughout my life and have episodes of anger issues and issues with people of other races (such as mexicans, arabs, blacks)

      I also did not lie in court or ever had to face to indictment

      If Fogen would have honestly had some self control and not intend on doing Trayvon harm and stay in his vehicle and not bring his gun, he’d be scot free right now

  18. aussie says:

    Colin, it would be perfectly okay to email him. I am sure he’d be glad to hear “his students” are worried about him.

    Last I heard Crane posted there’s something wrong with Fred’s computer. But hers was still okay, so he could use that perhaps. I got the impression though that Crane was tied up with some legal issue of her own, so maybe they’re busy on that or even away because of that. I do hope he’s not gone two-wheeling in icy roads again.

  19. colin black says:

    Tzar says:

    March 15, 2013 at 4:08 pm

    Has anyone heard from the prof and his family?

    Ditto ditto ditto ect.
    Pls anyone in the know let us know they are ok . Safe.
    As its been to long for my comfort.
    Not that they owe us any explenations re there not writting on the pc.
    Personaly I dont touch mine for months sometimes,And also the laptop.

    But as a Blog Runner he must know that we will worry over he an crane.
    Script long running is slowing downt the site as welll .
    If there unable to write an article fair enough.
    But being unable to open just an open thread is what cincerns me an I suspect many more .
    I have his email would it be implolite to email him?
    Or has anyone else tried an knows if its non confidential pls let us know all is well T Y I A.

  20. ay2z says:

    We did go off topic badly for this whole thread, earliest comments drew the crowd off topic to the topic of the controversial 911 swear expletive adjective for a disputed noun.

    I think BDLR ended that discussion best in the first bond hearing of April 20th, 2012, when he referred to the profiling, and also referred to that term that he explained to the court, he did not want to repeat there, but that it was for those who hear it to decide what was said.

    Simple. We can argue this or that all day long. Prof has stated his opinion, and in articles, always offered the reader to make their own choice, if they prefer one over the other.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I think we’re all just restless because except for the recent phone info dump, there’s not much going on. It’s like watching paint dry or listening to a leaky faucet . . . Mercury is retrograde. Things will pick up and move forward on March 17.

      • cielo62 says:

        Two Sides- yep. And Mercury is my ruling planet.

        Sent from my iPod

        • And mercury is what made the Hatter mad……

          Musta been the mercury our science teacher let us play with in 6th grade?……………………………

          Or the Caterpillar 🙂

          • racerrodig says:

            I must have lucked out….Mercury was my 2nd car…..and 5th also.
            Both Cyclones…but no bad luck !!!!!!

          • Had a Cyclone myself….a ’68…..the first year they became luxury lead sleds………POS when I bought it….POS when I sold it…..

            Wish I still had my ’48 Dodge Delivery sedan…..flathead 6…..first “car” I ever owned….paid 50 bucks for it.

            BTW…..Why does a chicken coup have 2 doors?

          • racerrodig says:

            “BTW…..Why does a chicken coup have 2 doors?”

            Don’t know, but I’m sure this will be good !!

            Both of my Cyclones were fabulous cars. The 69 had the 290 horse 351 W 4 bbl and I eventually put a 429 in it. With that 3:00 gear that baby flew. The 70 had the 300 horse 351 C and I rodded that one pretty good. Made money on both of them Had a 69 Torino Cobra also….428 CJ.

          • Race…..the reason a chicken coop only has 2 doors?

            If it had 4 doors it would be a chicken sedan……..

          • racerrodig says:

            Chicken coupe ?? or Hardtop….no matter tron had to jump in, step on your toes and ruin the joke for me.

          • onlyiamunitron says:

            “BTW…..Why does a chicken coup have 2 doors?”

            Because if it had 4 doors it would be a chicken sedan.


            (who is almost as old as that joke)

      • ay2z says:

        chicken coop with two doors, no idea unless they want to do fly-thru layings. Why do they have two doors?

  21. ay2z says:

    Another revisit.

    • Rachael says:

      It’s an excellent video, but you know darn good and well that if you posted it at oh, say the outhouse, they would say yes, they looked suspicious and think they were all thugs, no matter what. It is so effn sad to me that such a think would be true, but you know as well as I that it would.

  22. whonoze says:

    I think this is the longest Fred and Crane have been away from the blog, yes? It’s disconcerting. I don’t suppose anyone here has a way to check in with them to ease our minds? I think we’d all like to stop worrying about their absence.

    • Cercando Luce says:

      I imagine they’d look at 1,500+ comments and say “No, I can’t go in there, too boring, and I bet there’ve been a whole bunch of playground-insult events we’d have to intervene in just like happens whenever we attend to our own lives.” Plus, I think Prof writes for other cases and blogs, and he did put in several essays last week one after the other– at least 4 in 2 days.

    • Malamiyya says:

      Crane-Station has a comment about movie lines up on firedoglake.

    • Rachael says:

      I too feel like this is the longest.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      whonoze – i have seen a 4 day absence in the past and if you look at fred’s last comment date, i think we are at 4 days as of now. although i have an email addy for him, i suspect it is the same addy where he would be receiving blog updates so i do not suspect it would be of much help.

  23. onlyiamunitron says:

    I’ve discovered the part of Zimmerman’s NEN call that it is definitely scripted!

    It’s right at the very beginning!

    Sanford Police Department. This line is being recorded. This is Sean.

    No way that wasn’t written out and rehearsed after being reviewed and approved by a conspiracy of like-minded individuals seeking to evade any legal peril.

    There’s definitely a mastermind at work here.



  24. Just found this…..and the link…..

    NOTICE…the TOTAL for security for the year so far is only 500 bucks !!!!!!!!!

    George Zimmerman fund raised $53K, spent $43K in 2 months


    George Zimmerman’s legal fund said it has raised more than $53,000 since the beginning of the year, and has already spent more than 80 percent of it, including nearly $12,000 on living expenses.

    In an updated posted Thursday on its website, the Zimmerman Legal Defense Fund Trust released a brief report on its expenses, as it promised to supporters when the fund launched.

    According to the report, the fund raised a total of $53,611.11 from Jan. 1 through March 3.

    Of that, the report said $43,670.58 has already been spent as follows:

    $16,000 on expert witnesses.
    $11,734.66 on household and living expenses, said to include most of March.
    $500 for security.
    $8,716.92 for law firm support and infrastructure.
    $5,879.31 in case-related expenses.
    $645.94 for fund management fees.
    $193.75 in other expenses.

    That leaves the Zimmerman defense fund $9,940.53 on hand. The report said the fund is regarding that money as reserves for April expenses.

    Fund managers said with the $16,000 allocated for expert witnesses, Zimmerman’s defense retained three experts and an investigator, adding that there is a greater need for expert assistance to properly prepare for Zimmerman’s June 10 second-degree murder trial for the death of Trayvon Martin in 2012. Zimmerman has claimed self-defense.

    The defense fund said it has a $30,000 goal for March. That’s after exceeding a similar goal for February, during which the fund raised $33,782.50.

    “Funds raised in March will be used to retain the remaining experts we require and to ensure promised payment according to our agreements with experts already on board,” the report said. “We must declare all our experts to the court by March 27.”

    • cielo62 says:

      MMP- what gets me are the $12,000 per month on LIVING EXPENSES! WTF are they doing? Where are they staying? WTF is costing so much? If they are attempting to hide “escape fund money” into monthly expenses, somebody better sound the alarm. That amount just doesn’t pass the smell test.

      Sent from my iPod

      • ay2z says:

        Wherever or whatever it is, he may as well live it up rather than squander on an immunity hearing, added legal team members and support staff.

      • If you read it……it’s nearly 12K for living expenses including most of March…..Then look at all the legal expenses……expert witnesses $16K and such…..then nearly $700.00 in fund management costs…….Who’s managing the fund

        And only $500.00 for security since Jan. 1st. ?

        Looks like run money to me…….

      • Trained Observer says:

        Living expenses? Forget Fogen’s pizza tab. It’s the Bloomin’ Onion and Steak carryout from Outback.

        • racerrodig says:

          Just had to do this. Sing along everyone…..

          Quick FogenPhoole went over the wall
          With a ball an’ a chain behind him
          Quick FogenPhoole went over the wall
          Send the dogs right out to find him.

          In a striped prision suit with no room to move
          He headed for the highway
          With his chain still dragin’
          He thumbed down a wagon said well you’re goin my way.
          And they say now

          Run Fogen, Fogen run run the hounds are on your trail
          Jump-up Jump-up
          Run Fogen, Fogen run run they’re gonna send you back to jail.

          Sheriff got a shotgun, he do
          He’ll fill you full of lead son, it’s true.

          He’s also got a blackjack, he’s mad
          He’d bust your head with one whack,
          Here I go now.

          Run Fogen, Fogen run run the hounds are on your trail.

          Sweet ShelLie Z was goin’ insane
          When she heard of Fogen’s jail break
          But she knew all the while ’cause
          She sent him a file
          Baked inside a fudge cake, and they say now

          Run Fogen. Fogen run run the hounds are on your trail
          Jump-up Jump-up
          Run Fogen, Fogen run run they’re gonna send you back to jail.

          Sheriff Jack Banes was a light on brains
          But he knew one thing for sure
          He took some toughs and a pair of handcuffs
          And headed straight for SheLie’s door and they say now

          Run Fogen, Fogen run run the hounds are on your trail
          Jump-up Jump-up
          Run Fogen, Fogen run run they’re gonna send you back to jail.

          Run Fogen, Fogen run run the hounds are on your trail
          Jump-up Jump-up
          Run Fogen, Fogen run run they’re gonna send you back to jail.

      • Rachael says:

        Actually, I don’t know that it says $12,000 per month – it says:

        “it has raised more than $53,000 ***since the beginning of the year,*** and has already spent more than 80 percent of it, including nearly $12,000 on living expenses.”

        But it doesn’t say $12,000 per month.

        • cielo62 says:

          Rachel- so it works to @ $4,000 a month. So that means security is less than $200 a month. Still fishy.

          Sent from my iPod

          • Notice no mention of payment for the $27K he owes for the previous security………..And now it’s down to $500.00 for the year so far?…………

            Doesn’t make it look like he even needs the security…..which I don’t believe he ever did need…….

            Just another way for him to play the victim……until it got too expensive……….

      • Jun says:

        $5000 for bacon

        $2000 Pop Tarts

        I do not know the rest LMAO

        • racerrodig says:

          Don’t forget 4 Meat Lovers Pizza’s on those 5 Pizza Nights a week.

          That’s about another $3,000.00, and I’m sure he doesn’t tip….

      • Two sides to a story says:

        It’s possible they’re talking about multiple months’ living expenses. We’ll have to see what future reports hold to know for sure.

        • cielo62 says:

          Two Sides- after re- reading I see made the assumption that those figures were per month. In reality they are from the beginning of the year. My personal expenses hover around $3,000 a month with a huge chunk being rent. So those numbers aren’t so extravagant after all.

          Sent from my iPod

          • What about all the other expenses?……

            Those are what seem odd to me….

            Rent?……..Buy a cabin up where I’m at….. 10 acres between 100 / 150K…..with cabin…….I DID NOT SAY Chalet…..a cabin is what you get……$300.00 a month thru the winter on propane and 15 bucks for a SENIOR fuelwood cutting permit…..and a lot of sweat for 4 cords of wood…….No prob….the national forest is a mile up the road from me 🙂

            Seen nothing from SM for a day or so……they finally give up?

          • racerrodig says:

            I used to have Propane heat in my old garage 26 X 32 and well insulated back in the 80’s at 300 a month….but that’s NJ….taxed to the hilt that Propane.

            “Seen nothing from SM for a day or so……they finally give up?”

            He “threatened” to leave. With his conduct I say “Go away…..and stay away”

      • Two sides to a story says:

        My monthly expenses aren’t as much as Fogen’s. But could be if I had more expensive digs, a newer vehicle, etc. etc. etc.

    • ay2z says:

      Numbers game? Living expenses, security, could be all rolled up together, why not if the security is ‘live in’ and the lawyer is not looking after the books. Osterman might be living in their house for a change, he said he would give his life for his anger management failure of a ‘brother’.

    • Jun says:

      LOL at Omara

      “I will do the work pro bono”

      “This money was for my new cadillac, I mean, office update”

  25. ay2z says:

    Back to rockm Whare the Land

  26. ay2z says:

    It’s time for a smile. This weekend at Carnegie Hall, musical ‘proteges’ from over the world, are competing. Found this link some time ago,

    Sugar Chili Robinson, playing Numbers. As young Robinson grew, he decided to give up music as he wanted to go to university. His desire was supported by his parents, and he is now a psychologist. Recently, he has returned to music.

  27. colin black says:

    Re the neighbour an the bathroom flooding inciddent.
    At least when he asked me If I had a problem with my bathroom.
    As his celing had water gushing through.
    I didnt return an say no I dont have a problem an looked down for my pocket to find a phone .To phone a plumber an claim he said well you have a problen now Homie an he punched me in the nose an knocked me on my ass.

    He heard a splash an realised I had been lieing to him an had infact flooded the complex.
    He then went beserk an got on top of me an started slamming my head on the cushioned tiles..

    He looked at the bathroom door I felt he looked an thats when I jumped up opened the door saw the taps still running bath overflowing.
    Wich enraged him even more he charged at me saying.
    Im going to drown you mother fucker Id just finished tileing that bathroom .
    Im going to drown you.

    So I was out of time I grabbed him shoved him head first into the scalding hot water .
    One time held him under because luckly I was wearing marigold rubber gloves whilst I was on the playstation.
    As its more realitic when doing a drive by on G T A Dont want to leave prints.

    I must admit this scenario did flash through my mind.
    But given this geezer was about six foot tall an almost as wide an probably weighed 380 pounds .
    I decided lieing an wheedling out was the most logical way to go.

    Neither fright nor flight but just do what feels right.

  28. colin black says:

    Its not that we shouldnt have debate an differing opinions amongst our members an those that read an dont comment also.
    Expect differing opinions points of veiw.
    This is the beuty of the internet an letting us talk real time.

    Instead of haveing to rely on T P T B An M S M……..
    For our information.
    If we all agreed an were in lockstep with each other.

    Then it would be a pretty boreing blog.
    An we can all agree thats not the case.

    However no matter how heated some dissagreement may be.
    Or how pompous or over inflated sence of importane a person may present them selfs.

    Self Promotion is no promotion .
    Its propa ganda.
    The foggage one does self promotion without any cv or bio to back it up.
    In other words in reality you cant cash the cheqes his lips are writeing.
    Of course this is also true of cheqes foggagge one writes for anything finance related. rubber ones.

    Anyway we are all old enough an ugly enough
    Speak for your self.
    I AM.

    Wouldnt dare comment on my fellow posters visage.
    Back on topic we are all experienced enough not to have to resort to personal insults.

    Who on here hasnt been an Idiot or said or done some thing idiotic?
    I know I have many times.

    Who here hasnt acted like a space cadet an started to run a bath an make some toast an marmalade coffee.
    An smoked a joint an then played some G T A on the playstation.

    An get disturbed by some dam fool knocking on my front door.
    Neighbour from two floors down saying he has water pouring through his bathroom.
    An am I haveing any problems.

    An I swear this is the truth I knew right away Id forgotten about the running taps.
    So I turned around went round the corner to where the bathroom an kitchen were located .

    Out of sight of the neighbour I opened an slammed the kitchen door so he would hears it.
    The water from under the bathroom door was already pouring out from underneath.
    So i gets back to front door pronto an says no nothing up with mine what about the guy below.
    Said he had knocked an no reply.

    All the best I said an closed the door.
    Was I a prick yes did I lie yes .
    A simple form of ettiquete could solve any problems .

    First before we go about thinking of allegeing someone an idiot.
    Or doesnt know what there talking about an you think there a double dumb ass.

    Let he who has never been an idiot raise the first stone…Or insult..

    An none of us could because we have all been guilty of such things in the past.

    Second just agree to dissagree an commit to never aiming a derogatary remark or barbed insult at a fellow poster.

    Of course I have zero athourity on this blog an any opinions I express are mere sugestions.

  29. Judy75201 says:

    The heart sticker on Trayvon’s phone sadly reminds me of the heart sticker on the tape on Caylee’s mouth area…so much heartbreak.

  30. racerrodig says:

    With friends like that you better have a damn good alibi.

    • LOLO that’s a good one! Frances has repeatedly given law enforcement the best evidence against gz for the hate crime charges. we should really thank him!!LOL

      • racerrodig says:

        I still waiting for Frank “The Racist Tank” Taaffe to add “….and I don’t blame him….” to the end of one of his “…he was mad as hell and not going to take it anymore…” type comments.

    • Thank you, LLMPapa! I’m off to tweet it and spread it around.

    • ay2z says:

      Might be that it did not matter who the young man was, what he was doing, where he was going, legitimate or not. It may only have mattered to an angry grown man, that someone had to die and everyone would learn not to cross his property watch again. Motive may have been at the time he was ready to kill, knew how to kill, decided why to kill, he was, that night ‘primed’ and ready to act. And found a young black late teens male who dared walk on his turf and who wore a button to mark the spot.

      Anger, heat of the moment, he had murder on his mind and it was by accident, the young black male was Trayvon.

      • Rachael says:

        That’s kind of how I feel sometimes. It didn’t matter who it was, as long as it was a young black male, you know, one of the assholes who always get away, those coons. He found “one” that night, and Trayvon didn’t get away.

    • groans says:

      “Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, it is clear beyond any reasonable doubt that the defendant was mad as hell and wasn’t going to take it anymore.”

  31. here’s an idiot who thinks he’s knows how Zimmerman was able to shoot Trayvon from the ground.

    I’ve only watched the 1st few minutes cas it’s a tad fantastical, in the way that Trayvon would’ve had to be completely still and as some have said, Trayvon’s scrotum would have had to be firmly planted on gz’s bloody face ( maybe that’s what gz really meant to say how he was being smothered!)

    ps, I swear these zimmerlovers are scared to death of LMMPapa!! which is exactly how it should be!!

    but here it is, try to hold the laughter!! 😆

    • racerrodig says:

      “….bloody face….” maybe he should have said “..drop of blood on his nose…”

    • racerrodig says:

      As hard as I tried, I could not hold back the laughter.

    • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

      OMFG…no comment, because that was THE most lame attempt of a response to LMMPapa. Who made this video?? Lmao

      • some dope zimmerlover with no common sense. I mean how does gz *buck Up* and leave all that space there so freakin long, AND so high, that Trayvon NEVER falls off??? hello????

    • Donna Flores says:

      How does George end up on his back, he claims first to fall on his back instantly after being punched, then he claims he swatted and ran forward or sideways but how does he end up on his back with Trayvon on top if he swatted his way away. That was one hell of a funny video and a waste of time.

    • Jun says:

      How’s that idiot supposed to explain Trayvon was supposedly bashing his face and grabbing his head and smashing it from his proposed position?

      Kneeling on like that, the arms would even be able to reach the head and smash or even have any leverage for the alleged smothering that occurred

      Furthermore, Fogenhats claimed he was being straddled. That is not straddling, that he is showing.

      And does that person realize that is not a GSW, that was a shot into a bulletproof vest

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Exactly, jun. From what gz describes as “straddling” is not pictured in that video’s response.
        And, we also know that if gz used a martial maneuver to bump Trayvon off his side in order for gz to get to his gun, then we know that gz knew how to use that martial training to get Trayvon completely off of him in the beginning. But, gz did not know that maneuver because he says basically that he was UNABLE to do anything BUT shoot Trayvon.
        With your advanced understanding of martial arts, jun, perhaps you would do me the favor of rewording (if you agree with me) what I have said in order to make it clearer for readers.

      • Jun says:

        There’s a few mount escapes that Fogen could have done but he never claims that occurred and the forensics and witnesses never testify to that occurring. The trajectory, forensics, and ballistics of the gunshot just make it impossible for his story to have occurred. Even in that video’s alleged stance used, although it is not a straddle or mount, it still does not clue in the trajectory, forensics and ballistics of the gunshot. But logically speaking, Fogen was never at a physical disadvantage or combat disadvantage, even without the gun and was never in any real danger or dire need to use that gun. Fogen made up that story because he got caught redhanded and was desperate to try and get off, so he made up a story, and that parlayed it to bigot idiot racist rednecks and he is very similar to Raul Rodriguez in that they will never admit they are wrong and are both bullies.

        If we are to not bother looking at forensics or what the witnesses say, then yes, Fogen could have easily mount escaped. But if we are going to talk about their alleged mount, then technically Trayvon could have changed from that mantis stance over Fogen, into a BJJ mount and pinned Fogen’s arm as he tried to reach for the gun, since they are all claiming Trayvon is an MMA expert. You are right in that part of the mount escape for people who are same weight or lighter in weight, is you have to turn to your side and push the opponent off. However, the only safe way to sweep a mount is to hook the leg and than roll into the opponents guard and then try to move out of the guard, because the other method mentioned, the opponent could easily still kick you in the face after turning to the side and pushing off, because the person on top is still in an advantageous position.

        Anyways, scientifically speaking, the second paragraph never occurred, because we skipped the ballistics, forensics, and witnesses. The way he was bleeding from his 2 cm superficial cuts that were healing by the time police arrived on scene, which was fairly fast, he could only have sustained that injury and bled while he was upright, due to gravity. As can be seen the blood all dripped down and then towards his beard. The bleeding could only occurred if he was head straight, and then had his head forward at approximately a 45 degree angle. According to witnesses and forensics, there was never a fight, just a struggle that ensued because all Trayvon was trying to do was get away from the defendant and “get Fogen off him”. The forensics show, he could never have caused any of the alleged injuries and attacks the defendant claimed happen, because it is scientifically impossible, considering the dna and blood spatter and smear readings. I could go more into it, but I will not ruin the state’s case because they have a better picture and work product, since they are looking straight at it, and had the means to conduct proper science tests to see what occurred (word to Knox LMAO)

        Bottom line, we can only talk an MMA fight between Fogen and Trayvon if we threw out all logic and reason and reasonableness LOL. Trayvon stood no chance whatsoever from Fogen. Fogen had the combat experience, psychotic brain to instigate and bully others, weapons and tools advantage (gun and flashlight), car, knowledge or the area, size, age (he was a fully developed adult). It was like a Tiger fighting a Zebra and Trayvon is the Zebra, and logically speaking, all the Zebra would try to do is run or try to get the Tiger off him.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Thank you so much, jun. You write so well and so clearly!!

    • Jun says:

      Also notice on the MMA reels of a real fight, that the party in the mount they are claiming, had the other party’s dna and blood all over their arms and sleeves and hands and gloves… hmmm

    • groans says:

      Wow. Largely unintelligible (WTF?). And essentially an unsuccessful attempt to neutralize LLMPapa’s long line of videos!

      Congratulations, LLMPapa!

      @Malisha – Maybe this is where RZ Jr. and others have been! Good place for them, eh?

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Ah, they’re just using empty language to create a view of possible situations that they are substituting for the impossible ones that reality requires.

      Look at the mounted positions depicted. Now, realize that these are professional fighters taking up these positions. Notice how they keep one foot solidly planted on the ground with the knee away from the opponents body? This is necessary to maintain balance, since, as real marshal artist have informed us, a mount position is extremely unstable and it would be impossible for an untrained person to maintain it.

      Now you can see it in action in these film clips. Of course, Trayvon would not have known to keep one of his legs lifted for balance. Had he attempted a mount, he’d have easily been thrown off by GZ’s reflexive resistance to being mounted. GZ cannot tell us that he has no defensive reflexes, he’s an angry man and he does have them, even if he wants us to believe that he doesn’t.

      Have a camera man standing by and have someone rush at GZ and you’ll see those defensive reflexes kick in. He’s a fraud.

      Meanwhile, Trayvon isn’t a violent or combative person, he’s a child who has no experience with violence. So, what can he expect his own violence to accomplish? Absolutely nothing positive, he cannot envision killing his adversary, so all a physical attack would accomplish is to bring fourth the consequences of escalated violence against himself. GZ is combat confident, Trayvon is combat averse! Show of hands, how many here would walk up to Mike Tyson and slap him, if he mouthed off at you? Even if you didn’t know who he was, his powerful build would probably put off most would be attackers. Of course, if you know who he is, then, before anyone would even think of attacking him physically with just their bare hands, they’d have to have some serious training and confidence in their own proven skills. Trayvon has no reason to believe he can overcome this bigger, heavier, stronger and older man, so he has no reason to lay a finger on him, the only effective defense he can imagine is to somehow run away from him. That’s reality, everything else is insanity!

    • Malisha says:

      Oh this is reminiscent of some of the trials I have seen where a child molester takes each tiny part of the story that was told and addresses how each tiny part of the story could have been different. Let’s say the child says the guy grabbed her when she was on the swing and he ran with her, holding her hand and yelling “come here.” He’ll say that could have been her falling off the swing and he saw her fall and came up to help and said, “you’re OK, see, here!” as he helped her up. Then she said he pulled her over to his white van and put her in the back. He’ll say, “she could have seen my white van when I was fixing the window.” Then she said he did this and that. He’ll say, “she could have had a burr in her underwear…” and on and on and on. For every one thing, there’s some bizarre possible other explanation.

  32. colin black says:

    Re above I got disracted yup.
    The foggafe is not Jewish with his ineptnesss of comprehening the law of.
    Say nothing .
    Also no Hebrew in his D N A re money smarts.
    He has the opposite money dumbness…

    No self respecting man of Jewish faith whom may no the value of a shekell.
    Also knows above all true strength true richness is found in Family Reletives Freinds neighbours commmunty.

    An other concept alein to the foggagge place others welfare even his Wife an family before his own best intrests.
    No theres nothing whats so ever religous of any faith denoimation or spirtuality about this hollow shell of a person.

  33. Donna Flores says:

    I’m a little confused about the way Zimmerman fired the shot. I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately and I just can’t picture it.
    He pinches Trayvon’s hand between his arm and side, pulls the gun with hand on the arm that’s holding Trayvon and gets a clean shot while he is still holding his arm. Am I correct or am I missing something.

    • He also said he had “wrist” control of Trayvon

      And another statement saying he was being careful not to shot his left hand.

      So Trayvon’s wrist was in front of his heart?

      I don’t think we’ll ever know the truth of what happened that night…

      Me?…….fogen tried to detain Trayvon…..Trayvon pulled back……and fogen pulled the trigger.

    • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

      That’s the way he tells it in his re-enactment video, but changes it up in his voice stress test video and used this other hand (left hand) to old Trayvon’s wrist and shoot with his right hand.

    • groans says:

      IMO, you’re missing something.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      You are correct as far as GZ’s phony and impossible story goes. He can’t draw his weapon, from this position, without bending his elbow. Since he’s on his back on the ground (supposedly), he can’t bend his elbow to draw his hand up to his waist, by pushing his elbow rearward, which would allow him to keep his upper arm close to his body as is needed to maintain the hold on Trayvon’s hand/wrist.

      Instead, GZ must push his elbow away from his body, so he can draw his hand up to his waist, and this action would free any hand pinned by his armpit. Try laying flat on your bed and then try reaching your hand into your rear waist band, you’ll see that you can’t keep a hold on anything in your armpit, you have to loosen up on it.

      Of course, this little story told by GZ is yet another self serving lie, concocted in an effort to make it appear that he was engaged in a heroic struggle for his life. Nothing could be further from the truth.

      • Kelly Payne says:

        He said his gun was on his waist at his rear hip. the only he could have gotten his gun from that position is if he knocked trayvon off stood up then grabbed his gun and killed trayvon.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          1. “What are you following me for?”
          2. “What are you doing around here?”

          Those two statements are going to send GZ to prison for the rest of his natural life! The only answer he had a right and a duty to give in reply to the question Trayvon rightly asked, was to identify himself and explain his actions. Anything else is criminal, thus he has no right to any defense and his weapon discharge is murder.

          Now, maybe no one took the time to explain this thing to GZ. But, he should have known that taking a life is always serious. Instead he wanted to believe in some cartoon land fantasy where slave laws were still the rule. Well… Eat well GZ because your time is running out. You aren’t going to hear much more since your supporter are fleeing. Your donations are probably going to dry up, now that everyone knows for sure that you killed an innocent kid while looking him dead in the eyes enjoying his terror, then sitting on his back to increase his pain.

          Come June, however, you’ll be a monster at large no more. May each day you spend in prison be your private daily terror.
          |||=> Tick Tock! <-|||

          • racerrodig says:

            Well said III=> Tick – Tock <=III indeed.

            I can't wait to see him in that new prison haircut.
            With all due respect to vaudeville, he'll look just like "Curly" … and all. Nyck, Nyck, Nyck !!!! After all, who deserves a name like "Chowder Head" more than Fogen.

          • Xena says:

            @Lonnie Starr

            Those two statements are going to send GZ to prison for the rest of his natural life!

            Absolutely! But let’s look at it from GZ’s version;
            “What’s your problem?” Or, “Do you have a problem.”

            Four things. First, GZ stopped walking and turned to face Trayvon. He could have continued walking while saying he didn’t have a problem.

            Second, by GZ saying he didn’t have a problem, while going into his pockets for his phone to call 911, he demonstrated threatening behavior. He also lied to Trayvon because GZ did have a problem; i.e., the assholes who always get away who are fucking coons/punks when running away.

            Third, the combination of standing still facing Trayvon demonstrates GZ’s intentions of causing confrontation in addition to intentions of restraining Trayvon. The question to GZ on cross should be, “Had the victim not punched you, what were you plans?” “Were you going to ask the kid to stand there and wait with you until the cops arrived?

            Fourth. From the time that GZ called and ended his call with NEN, what changed so drastically that he felt the need to call 911? Answer: He came face-to-face with the kid. Why did he come face-to-face with the kid whether by his version or what DeeDee heard? Because he got out of his truck and followed the kid.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Yep, Trayvon addressed him, asked him why he was doing what he was doing and gave him a chance to reply with a proper explanation.

            Of course, we know that this version never happened, nor did it happen where GZ claims it did. GZ is not a credible witness, whose word can be taken at face value, because we now know that he is capable of telling lies and that he does so frequently and without thinking. Therefore GZ’s impractical/impossible versions are most likely lies, because that is the simplest explanation that fits the evidence.

            a) W8 says she heard:
            1. “Why are you following me for?” …
            2. “What are you doing around here?”

            b) Next thing witnessed is the sound of contact and items falling to the grass.

            c) Next the two are seen on the ground, GZ on top by people who are telling lies about their observations, that they’ve had to retract.

            d) And on the bottom by people who had trouble getting their statements on the record.

            The armed and violent professional combatant, was older, heavier and stronger than the non-violent, untrained and non combat ready youth.

            Yet, the armed assailant wants us to believe that he is not telling us lies, when he says that this timid youth, scared him to death by threatening to kill him with his own weapon, which was concealed at all times and the youth could not have known about.

            This man who routinely lies, outrageously even, wants us to believe that with all his superior physical advantage and with is firearm secure, screamed out in sheer terror and kept screaming in a high pitched voice, until he was able to grab the kid by the shirts, pull the garments down and towards himself with one hand and fire a shot into the childs heart with the other hand.

            Then, after firing that shot, he stopped screaming for his life, even though he believed he missed and that his lethal attacker was still both alive and unharmed.

            Does anyone have to be reminded that this unlikely story is being told to us by a man who is a proven liar? A liar who would do anything at all to stay out of prison for life? So, is it any wonder that a timid child in fear for his life, would in the liars story, become this fearsome lethal attacker with every advantage imaginable until his death? Even though the child had no weapon, no training, no confidence in the combat skills he lacked, and yet he would attack an enrage a man bigger stronger and more violent than himself, who had a fire arm and the training to enable him to use it?

            What would Trayvon do with a gun if he had been able to get his hands on it? Would he have the confidence and guts to use it? Probably not! If GZ needed training to be able to use his gun, what does that tell us about a child who never had any such training? After all, if the training is unnecessary, why does the law mandate it? Was GZ able to “hit the broad side of a barn” the first time he took his weapon out of the package?

            If the gun were not ready to fire, how would Trayvon know? Would he know what to do if the gun would not fire? Or, better yet, before you reach for someone elses weapon, you had better be familiar with it and know how to operate it, otherwise you’d best leave it alone. A gun is only a deadly weapon in the hands of someone who knows how to use it, otherwise it’s nothing more than a useless hunk of metal at best, or a tragic accident waiting to happen at worst.

            So, without any knowledge of the state of the weapon and/or its operation, Trayvon would be in no position to take any action regarding it. Worse yet, because of GZ’s size and superior advantage, Trayvon would be so terrorized it’s not possible to believe he could even think clearly. Which is why the lack of evidence of contact on his hands looms so much larger and is much more credible that the self serving and foolishly contrived, unbelievable words of a liar!

          • Xena says:

            @Lonnie Starr. EXCELLENT!!

            Which is why the lack of evidence of contact on his hands looms so much larger and is much more credible that the self serving and foolishly contrived, unbelievable words of a liar!

            What GZ did after he was arrested indicates his guilt. If not but for the GPS ankle bracelet, GZ would have taken his hidden passport and left the country to escape being tried for 2nd degree murder.

          • He still might flee……either the country…..or this world…

            He will be free on bail until he’s convicted…..The more he see’s things NOT going his way……that greater the likelihood of the above happening……IMO

          • Xena says:


            He will be free on bail until he’s convicted…..The more he see’s things NOT going his way……that greater the likelihood of the above happening……IMO

            Like being taken to the hospital the night before trial? Using his massive weight gain to his benefit in causing emergency health problems that ShelLIE’s knuckle bandages can’t cure?

  34. OK…….This is getting out of hand with the attacks……and I am not without guilt in this.

    I do have a dog in this fight….more than one actually….people I admire and respect….and then to see them belittled?

    This has degraded to a “My dogs bigger than your’s” which I do not care to take part in.

    I’ll check back with Ya’ll in a few days….after recess.

    MMP / CP OUT

  35. Tzar says:

    Has anyone heard from the prof and his family?

  36. Malisha says:

    Of course the proFogenites believe he committed a racial hate-crime; that is why they are supporting him. That includes Alan Dershowitz, Esq., by the way. He knows what happened but he doesn’t want Fogen to be punished for it; to Dershowitz, what is important in this world is:

    #1 – Dershowitz; and
    #2 through #100 and counting: Pontifications that make Dershowitz feel like a bigger shot than he ever was.

    Strange, much of that is so like Fogen, so like William Kennedy Smith, so like…

    Oh well, I digress. We ALL know why Fogen killed Trayvon Martin. It’s just that Fogen realized, after the fact, that he couldn’t just brag about it (“Yeah I brought down one of them Bpa-lack suspects all by myself without the police to help me because they’re not competent enough to do what’s needed around here to protect us decent Americans and Afro-Peruvians”) and get away with that. So he made up a pile of crap and Wolfinger forced it down Serino’s throat and only after the million hoodie march and the two million signature petition did the worm turn —

    Choo choo choo choo (boo hoo boo hoo) choo choooooooo….

    • Trained Observer says:

      Speaking of William Kenendy Smith –. his attorney was Miami’s Roy Black, several cuts above MOM and West.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Sorry, computer hiccup. Getting back to William Kennedy Smith’s lawyer Roy Black. … Black endded up marrying one of the jurors from that trial.

        She became a castmate on The Real Housewives of Miami. Their son RJ, like his old man, occasionally appears on the show, and in at least one episode, one of Black’s cases came up.

        Only in Florida …

      • onlyiamunitron says:

        “Speaking of William Kenendy Smith –. his attorney was Miami’s Roy Black, several cuts above MOM and West.”

        I’m not sure I see the point of judging “lawyers Zimmerman could get on a pro bono basis” against the “lawyer a Kennedy could afford” benchmark.


      • Trained Observer says:

        Granted, Black and his firm have plenty of big bucks clients including Rush Limbaugh (barf!). But they’ve also done notable work defending average Joe families, some for reduced fees, some pro bono. One notable case involved accusations of shaken baby syndrome where police and prosecutors in Lee County Florida (another hotbed of redneck ignorance) tried to go after a frightened couple with some Knox-style crappola. In stepped Black and his team of experts — and voila — the prosecutor folded, telling cops to shove it and dropping charges.

        My point (if indeed I have one) is that Fogen might have ended up with classier, brighter and definitely more professional representation had there been anything to his self-defense claims other than endless bull.

  37. colin black says:

    Jun says:

    March 14, 2013 at 8:07 am

    He’s obviously not Jewish because if he was, he would understand the law, because Jews are good lawyers (as Adam Sandler always jokes) LOL

    I agree an People off Hebrew Decent are aso known or are alleged just like the Scots to be rather thriffty if not outright frugal with there money.

    This of course doesnt even raise to the standard off urban legand.
    An is fact often used in a seggoatery manner to describe all Scots as tightwads.
    Nothing could be further from the truth in reality Scots are generous.
    But also even in the mhyth.

    Its Aberdonians whom had the reputation as being tight .
    Cobwebs in there wallets ya da ya da da.
    An of course Aberdeen is in Scotland so over generations Aberdeen morphed into Scotland as a Country.

    Thers are so many sayings dittys an homilies told that are utter B.S.
    Animal world abounds with false narritives.
    Repeared so often the become entrenched in peoples brains as fact.

    Lemmings commiting mass hari khari when there poulatio levels reach untanable levels.
    This conclussion made by one man whom wittnesses several hundred thousand maybe Lemmings plunge over a cliff into the sea hundreds of feet below.

    Since his observations its been proven as fact that migrotry animals birds incects mammals bats an hosts of soecies have inbuit gps systems with in there brains.
    Thay can litterly sence the n pole s pole an every thing in betweeen.

    Nature invented radar before mamals had even evolved.
    Back on point those lemmings got wrong readings or perhaps there had been a land brige that was there prior to collapse an cliff appeared over night.
    Nope he made his theory of noble lemmings commiting mass suiside an its syuck till this very day.

    Perhaps the most stupid an yet famous one that people except as fact till present.

    An Ostrich when it feels danger aproaches is so stupid.It burries its head in the sand? In the mistaken beleif.
    That if it cant see its attacker the attacker wont be able to see him or her…

    Makes perfect sense doesnt it an animal blessed as the fastest runner on two legs on the Planet.
    An animal that can out run a lion plus turn on a dime as far as manuverebility goes..
    Is going to ignore all those gifts an burry his head in the sand.
    Methinks any animal displaying this type of behaviour would become extinct rapido.

    Early Europeans visiting Africa were un used to an confused by heat haze an false horizons an low lever water effect mirage.
    You know when your driveing on a summers day an you see the flat water effect caused by heat.

    Thease Europeans saw simmilar effects on the vast plains of Africa teeming with game.
    They mistakeingly took the Ostriches heads disapearing whan they bent down.
    As them burrieing there heads in the sand.

    Perspective was also of as they could see what looked to be almost next to thease strange birds.
    When in reality they were hundreds of yds away.
    An they wouldnt waste energy even attempting to chase an ostrich.
    But they reported what they thought they saw.
    Big huge birds an Lions right next to them an instead of fleeing they burrie there heads in the sand.
    An another peice of human ignorance over natures brilliance is born..

  38. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    One thing led to another on the NBC blog and I ended up posting these questions:
    1. How are you going to handle the shooting location gz pointed out in relation to the location of the body?
    2. How are you going to handle the location of the keychain with flashlight in relation to the body?
    3. Witness 18 is the only witness that saw who was on top at the moment the gun was fired.
    4. If gz was on the bottom, why isn’t the blood smeared on the back of his head?
    5. Why was there no blood/DNA from George on Trayvon’s hands?
    6. Why did Trayvon only have a small cut on the underside of his ring finger?
    7. Why is there debris on the toes of gz’s shoes?
    8. Why is the wound at intermediate range and the bullet holes in Trayvon’s sweatshirts at contact range?
    9. Why did the cries for help end with the gunshot?
    10. How did gz manage to pull out his gun if he was being straddled by Trayvon?
    11. How are you going to explain that, if gz had wrist control of Trayvon, that his life was in danger?
    12. George was never perpendicular to the sidewalk according to Jon’s wife and John.
    13. What was gz doing with his free hands when he says Trayvon was punching his face and pounding his head into the concrete?
    14. What was gz doing with his free hands when both of Trayvon’s hands were being used to cover gz’s mouth and nose?
    15. Why did gz need to have the arriving officer call him on his cellphone?
    16. See Click> ___
    17. Why did gz need to get on Trayvon’s back and hold him down after shooting Trayvon in the heart and feel he even needed Jon’s assistance to hold Trayvon down?
    18. How are you going to reconciled gz’s statement that Trayvon saw and reached for gz’s gun before gz shot him WITH gz saying that he thought Trayvon was indicating after he was shot,gun”?”I give up, I see you have a gun.
    Here is gz saying that:
    Click> Just found out about the gun?
    19. Why was gz’s blood pressure normal just 15 minutes after he thought he was going to die if he did not shoot Trayvon?
    20. What are you going to do about Wagner’s photo (taken before the EMT “cleaned” gz up?
    see Click> Blood All Over His Face & Hands
    21. Why haven’t you ever responded to this series?
    A Walk With Marinade Dave + part 1, 2 3
    22. What are you going to do with John saying he saw the struggle go from the grass next to the back of his townhouse to the dogwalk before he went inside to call 911……
    a. … order to insist that positions could not have changed?
    b. … order to insist that there is no way that Trayvon’s phone could not fallen out of Trayvon’s pocket at that time?
    Listen to Click> A show of Hands
    23. How are you going to reconcile all of gz’s different accounts in this group of gz’s audio statements?
    24. Why were there no grass stains on the back of gz’s jacket if, as he says, he shimmied on the grass with the full weight of Trayvon on him?
    25. Why were Trayvon’s hands under his body instead of out to the side where gz’s says he was holding him down?

    • Xena says:

      @yahtc. Very good questions. On Yahoo when such questions were asked, the responses were to deflect to posting insults about Trayvon’s parents, Rev. Sharpton, etc. Such comments reveal his supporters really do believe that GZ committed a racial hate-crime.

    • racerrodig says:

      Details, details, details……I’m sure FogenPhoole can set it all straight when he testifies….

      It’s really amazing when you look at a list of questions like that and then realize how many more questions can be asked.

      • Tzar says:

        It’s really amazing when you look at a list of questions like that and then realize how many more questions can be asked.


      • Trained Observer says:

        Quadruple yup without a bypass

        • racerrodig says:

          No doubt it sucks to be Fogen about now. I can’t imagine him getting through cross examination….without blowing a gasket.

      • groans says:

        All he needs to do is: Get in the BOX – just get in the BOX and tell it, big boy.

        • racerrodig says:

          I like that ! “Get in the BOX” I’m just afraid the Bible will spontaneously combust when he says “I do”

      • groans says:

        How about that for our Leatherman blog button / bumper sticker / etc: Get in the BOX!

        (Copyright by Romaine, of course. I bet she’d cut us a deal. 🙂 )

        • racerrodig says:

          That would be just Fab !! Picture him getting up in the BOX, gets sworn in, and when he sits that Phat ass down…… the chair collapses….

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        The more evidence I look at, the more I realize that even more of GZ narrative is a lie. It also reveals that the NeN call was not reporting actions/activities contemporaneously as it once seemed and many once were led to trust, having nothing to refute or controvert it. But now, we have enough evidence to show that much of what is in the NeN call is scripted and does not actually convey activities contemporaneously, but instead is designed to mislead.

        Here’s something to consider:

        In this new age of technology, 911 and NeN are misconfigured protocols that fail to take advantage of the state of the art.

        No longer need, 911 and/or NeN Operators (911 herein after), remain totally in the dark about the areas reporters are talking about.
        This is because when these systems are contacted from cell phones, there is the possibility of also capturing a video feed, an option that was heretofore not available. Thus, 911 systems need to be upgraded to take advantage of cell phone still image and video capture capabilities.

        First there needs to be a few things worked out with cell service providers, to waive any fees associated with transferring data to emergency centers via 911 calls. Perhaps there might also be police “keys” that would allow 911 call center techs to assist in operation of the callers phone (permission granted of course), since not all callers are familiar with all of the features their phones offer.

        So, with this kind of system in place, Sean would have been able to ask GZ to activate his phones video, so that Sean could direct GZ to scan certain areas. While Sean knew that GZ was calling from a cell phone, and GZ knew he could take and send images. Neither thought to either do so or request it. I’m sure Sean would have had a very different take on what GZ was claiming, if Sean were to have seen a picture of Trayvon.

        Also, 911 operators need to ask NW’er who report in, if they are carrying a fire arm, so that more specific instructions can more forcefully be given. What GZ was attempting to do by lying to Sean, was to somehow implicate NeN in the crime. Note how he attempts to make NeN questions and instructions as “misunderstood” orders to take action. As if to say “I had no choice but to do this, because NeN wanted to know that, or asked me to do this”. Blaming NeN for putting him in the position that led to the shooting.

        • racerrodig says:

          Well said & I’ll add that in our town, the police have in their computer system info of all guns registered to what owners by name and address. If you have had any incident with a with a gun, that info is in their system. Back in 08 I had to call the police to my shop to throw a customer out that was creating a real problem. When the 1st two officers arrived I I’d myself, and explained what was going on. After the little punk kept threatening me in front of the cops, the sergeant, who’d arrived alter stated “….I understand you have several firearms that are registered Mr. racer?”

          He wanted to convey to the thug I was armed and back off. I asked later about that and he said they know, for their own good what they are walking into. Even if I called from out on the road somewhere, my name shows I own guns and could be armed.

      • Jun says:

        Now that you bring up the cellphone call Fogenhats made to NEN to speak to Sean

        I realize

        That they could probably track the location he called from and where he was throughout the call

        Imma laugh if that is in the work product because he is beyond toast

        • racerrodig says:

          Oh he’s toast alright. The phone calls & text messages along with the GPS findings will make him look like a suspicious piece of blackened toast.

    • cielo62 says:

      YAHTC~ Now you KNOW you’re not going to get a response! Not that he doesn’t know the answers, only that he won’t admit them. I mean, who wants more egg on their face?

    • cielo62 says:

      YAHTC~ BTW they are ALL most excellent questions. If the prosecution just goes down that list, they can nail GZ with the answers. Well done.

      • pat deadder says:

        If the prosecution has gps data as you all are speculating why wouldn’t BDLR tell the defense that and offer some kid of plea deal to fogen like 20 years instead of life.provided he admit and explain what really happened.Or maybe they have and fogen wouldn’t acceptt it and he’s hoping the jury will buy his bullshit story hook line and sinker.

  39. ay2z says:

    The other day, got some vibes on this thread, and whoa and behold, the word ‘shill’ popped into my head, I;m not sure anyone got the same vibes or not. 😉 One comment revealed an attack on myself and all of us, for basing comments from a position of prejudice, but apology followed, so didn’t respond. Sometimes you just don’t know, taking the high road and not engaging, might be the way to reveal on radar, who’s got their tin foil hat on when they come in.

    • groans says:

      Hang in here with us! We’ve gotten through this kind of thing before, and we will this time, too. 🙂

    • I’ve been meaning to ask someone, where’s jun?

      what is the tin foil hat thing? I never get the joke!

      • My GF wears tinfoil undies… prevent immaculate conception….AND to avoid being impregnated by Aliens….

      • groans says:

        Hey, Shannon! I’ve been meaning to ask, “Where’s shannoninmiami?” Glad to see your fonts.

        (I still feel funny saying that “fonts” thing … but I’m trying in my old age!)

      • Rachael says:

        People who believe in bizarre conspiracy theories wear “tinfoil hats” to keep their brains protected from alien propaganda:

      • Jun says:

        Remember it is a Conservative Tinfoil Hat

        What differentiates this certain tinfoil hat, is racist conspiracies against the almighty whitey and the world being taken over by the Chinese, the Jewish liberal media, and black racists

        It is very important to Afro Peruvian decent Americans who mentor black kids every day

        • yeah right!!!

          but you know i’m so sick of people trying to insert politics into this CRIME of MURDER!

          I swear i’ve never hear such BS when these tv pundits try to say the people are divided down the party line in this case!
          oh and the black and white line too? uhhh no.
          there is only the right and the wrong. I can’t stand to hear that!

          so some fool crawls out from some rock, can chase someone’s kid through the neighborhood and shoot him dead in front of ten people, and can expect to get away with it? ummm I don’t think so.

  40. dbj says:

    Trent posted these videos on youtube yesterday. He puts a lot of things into perspective.

    • Aunt Bea says:

      I luvs me some Trent.
      Thanks for posting this.
      Not sure why he has Trayvon going back to RTV Circle.
      As many scenarios as I have run around in my mind, I never came up with that one. LOL

    • cielo62 says:

      dbj~ Trent reminds me of the guy who narrates the Honey Badger. TOTALLY unrepressed.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Trent has some good points about the darkness / ambient light situation and how narrow the grassy area is and how easily heard people are back there if the people living in the condos are downstairs and near their back doors.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Those who called in on cell phones have gps trails on the e911 system. So their locations can be determined. Fogen is going to be toast. John had to back off his MMA style blows has to mean that the SP was able to independently confirm that they never happened. Because John was counting on his story not being contradicted. Just like GZ was counting on there being no evidence to contradict whatever story he told.

        Not understanding the SYG law, left them all thinking that who threw the first punch and GZ’s injuries would be the critical pieces of evidence that would win the day unchallenged. Boy were they ever wrong. Meanwhile E 911 is cooking a fair number of geese.
        GZ’s goose first!
        |||=> Tick Tock! <-|||

        • racerrodig says:

          I’ve been saying since May and stand on it…Phone Records…Text Messages….and they emanate from……………cell phones !!

          I don’t know as much about e911 records but the phone records alone will crush Fogen.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Of course who called who about what and when is a critical part of this saga. But, only after it’s proven that someone or others were working together to achieve the results obtained. That proof comes in the form of the cctv analysis, which shows that there was no vehicle that attempted to leave the RATL at and around the appropriate time.

            The only vehicle that does appear and go through the motions that are close to what is described at the time of the NeN call, is one that first passes up taking a post at the mail shed. But, it instead turns around and retraces its path, still without any attempt to exit via the front gate. Then suddenly stops, reverses again, and this time heads straight back to the mail shed it had abandoned before, and this time takes up station there. The cctv’s time stamps place this event in very close proximity to the start of the NeN call, while the caller himself places himself very close to this exact same position.

            That should be provenance enough that the cctv’s have faithfully captured real events. Which, in turn, reveal that the driver is receiving information about whomever he was seeking, because he could not have seen or otherwise been aware of the existence or whereabouts of person he finally came to focus his attention upon.

            The lie he tells about the cut through near Taaffe’s is designed to make it appear that he made a coincidental discovery, thus no notification was needed. Since that is a lie, because Trayvon is at the mail shed at or before 6:54pm, which is before GZ’s vehicle is detected on scene by the cctv’s, nor does it stop near Taaffe’s, as the narrative requires it should have. Nor does it park in front of the clubhouse, as the narrative requires it to do for the start of the NeN call. Instead, after passing up the mail shed and getting called back, does it take up a position at the mail shed, in time for the start of the NeN call and at the time Trayvon reports he’s being followed.

            GZ is an adult, ex bouncer with episodes of violence in his past. He exhibits anger, disgust and a predisposition towards young black males, such that he’s driven to the use of profanity to make the encounter the more remarkable to the police dispatcher. Not only does GZ falsify events and attempt to spin his observations in a most sinister way. GZ is also armed with a deadly weapon, loaded with cheap — and therefore poorly performing ammunition, likely to fragment and be increasingly lethal — hollow point bullets.

            As GZ talks to the NeN dispatcher, sounds are heard on the tape, which likely come from inside GZ’s vehicle. They are sounds that are not unlike speech and of a weapon being handled. When GZ exits his vehicle to give chase, more strange sounds are heard, especially after GZ stops running. These strange sounds include knocking/rapping and again a sound not unlike a gun being handled. Yet, while GZ has been confronted with this tape and has listened to it several times, no explanation for these strange sounds is given. Even in spite of how remarkable they are. Only the sound of knocking is explained as an attempt to get a flashlight working. A flashlight that the lead detective finds to be working flawlessly. Is GZ telling yet another lie to once again conceal the presence of an assistant? Well, if the flashlight was being troublesome, we’d at least expect that to be confirmed, by continuing to be troublesome for the lead detective. Yet the lead detective’s only discovery is that the flashlight is a flawless performer. Given GZ’s propensity to lie, the flashlight is unlikely to be the source of the knocking being heard. Any investigator would certainly be a fool to accept GZ’s word for the matter.

            Finally we hear “impartial witnesses” who observe the scene, make up stories that include fictitious actions, actions that did not happen, but that somehow coincide with the very lies GZ will tell. Why would witnesses involve themselves so deeply in a matter that they’ve only “coincidentally” had an opportunity to witness, involving people, none of whom they supposedly knew at the time?

            Even if you believed that your giving false reports to the police — thereby hampering their investigation, by making them believe that the wrong party was within their rights, when in fact and in truth they were not — why would you do that even if you believed it unlikely your deceit would be discovered? Because, without knowing either party, why would you care enough, to risk committing a serious crime on behalf of a stranger? Or even a friend who had broken the law? Why would you make yourself a party to the crime? The answers to these questions are both serious and very troubling.

          • racerrodig says:

            Wow !! pretty good thoughts for an opening statement counselor !

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Nothings to good for the Fogenfool. I’m sure that the SP and the defense have assigned interns to monitor this blog, among others. It’s the nature of the beast today, no high profile case can do with out internet monitoring. It won’t be long before some outfit like google or yahoo begins offering a professional monitoring service of some sort.

          • racerrodig says:

            I know for fact that most of these blogs are monitored. My connections have all told me what is and isn’t important. I can tell you the videos that LLMPapa and the like are analyzed. Some have a wealth of useful information and some are considered entertainment. Back in the late summer myself and a friend of mine were able to get one of the worst out in the open and when I found a video of him doing a Neo Nazi indoctrination involving gun play, I turned it over to one of my guys. One of their informants recognized the background and his ass, being already wanted, was arrested. Bye, Bye Rugar.

            So we all play a small part whether intentionally or casually. I just wish the Feds could do more about the internet stalking and such. No matter, the Zidiots are in full blown retreat.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            As far as E 911 goes I have a starter kit here and of course you can google for more.

          • cielo62 says:

            Lonnie Starr~ Thanks for the e911 info!

        • cielo62 says:

          Lonnie- thank you for explaining that e911 aspect! I remember reading about that years ago, and the paranoid among the population going crazy about “invasion of privacy”. Then I read about triangulating cell phone signals using the available cell phone towers ( ping locations) and had collapsed the two technologies in my mind. I can see that that information will be very damaging to GZ.

          Sent from my iPod

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            I’ve got a starter kit on e911 here.

            Sanford upgraded to e911 sometime back in 2005-07, originally the system used “triangulation” between the towers but that was pre 2000 technology. The later technology uses a sort of app, that grabs geo positioning data from satellites. The military system used to be more accurate than the civilian system, but I understand that everyone now has access to the military grade data. So that now the only question would be, how often does the phone system one subscribes to polls for gps data. Obviously one poll or sample per second creates 60 records per minute. My guess is that one sample per 15 seconds or 4 samples per minute might be more acceptable.

            We’d have to know who the carriers were and go to the message boards for those carriers, some tekkie there will probably know the sample rate, or maybe has it? I know Trayvon was on T mobile, what service did GZ have?

          • cielo62 says:

            Lonnie~ Cheapo GZ probably had a Tracfone or other pay-as-you-go no-contract carrier. But i don’t know for sure.   I have multiple apps that ask my permission to use my “current location” in order to send me information. Even my Mapquest app can guide me to my locations with a moving dot. So, yes the technology has advanced quite a bit beyond triangulating cell phone towers.

  41. colin black says:

    Kimmi an Romaine just catching up on some o last night posts.
    I wrote a few posts here an there.
    But was unaware of the tension an discord beetween Xena whom I respect immencley.

    Kimmi Romane you have offended no one.
    Even the search ing ones umbrage was faux offence..
    I respect Searching mind an I think we all can agree he has written many valid on point posts that have enlightened me to certain asspects of American Law I had nae ken off.

    Searching mind you are far fron an idiot..Perhaps in choice of fashion or decor you may be,,
    But this I also ken nought.

    I aso know you in no way consider anyone an idiot excepting the foggagge one.
    An to that we all concour.
    Si it hurt me when I see people I admire an respect being refered to as an idiot.
    Compounded by the fact a seaeching mind of your genious levels of perception.
    An understanding of the human condition.
    Could Xena Kimmi or Romane warrant that Insult.
    An the very fact you no this compouns the insult reduces it to venom an spite.

    Wich my gut tells me is not you .Not what your about..

    Romaine wrote a beutifull Post a couple nights ago wich was so fitting moveing truthfull.
    An even us people follwing the case were inawe of her articulated verbage she used to convey bot just her feelings.

    My feelings all our feelings written fron the Lady with a huge heart an empathy for all the victins suffering for the actions of the foggagge ones dession to murder this defencless screaming child.

    Please searching mind dont leave I welcome each an every persons imput written here.Even as often is the case its at odds with my
    own thoughts.

    Some here dont post but read others comment often with gusto.
    At times people like myself with dyslexia or poor spelling an grammers skills
    Or to whom English is not there native tounge .
    Frustrate people whom have perfect gramer noun verb usage the whole 9yards.

    But we are not idiots an do not set out to frustrate.
    An at blogs like this where the stazi spelling an grammer police are not tolerated.
    You cut us slack long as you can read our posts thats what matters.

    You never belittled people for grammer or IQ unless its the defendant an most of us have been guilty of that.
    So this sudden animosity towars certain members puzzles me.
    Are you locked in a cupboard an your wifes impersonating you to get you banned…Maybe its none of my buisness.

    But I consider you all cyber aqauitances an freinds.
    An I hate confrontations amongs my freinds.
    Searching Minds Xena is not an idiot no more so than you.

    I beleive you owe some people an appoligy also beleive you ditto that sentiment.
    Searching Mind search your heart an do what you feel is right.
    An if you ever feel the urge to call one of us an Idiot then choose me.
    Just stick Savent at the end.

    Peace out an in………………..

    • @ Colin……But I AM an idiot…….Example follows..

    • Xena says:

      Colin, thank you. I did nothing for SearchingMind to personally attack me. It’s happened here before where someone starts by posting questions about GZ’s case, and the next thing we know, I become the center of their attention and personal attacks.

      There is something very revealing also. SearchingMind conveys that he has more education and knowledge than the blog’s owner. IOWs, he is a critic of the professor whose purpose is apparently to verbally vandalize the professor’s blog.

      • Food for thought…..

        I got up about 3AM MST……no idea what time SM is on……For me though….at that time I saw new posts of SM’s going in the same direction……

        No matter…..U’z still my buddy 🙂

        BTW……with women….yeah I might look at the boobs first…..then I look at her mind…….can’t stand airheads……I’ll take mind over body any day………a librarian / pornstar would be nice 🙂

      • Malisha says:

        Racer– does your Mom fit that description? Otherwise, I would wonder about the advice.

    • groans says:

      Xena has never hurt anyone here, and I’d bet not anywhere else either. I respect her (that’s my guess) knowledge of this case, intelligence, patience, diplomacy, and just plain kindness.

      I’m not as familiar with Romaine, but all indications suggest a warm and deep, peaceful person of faith and much more, who blew us away recently with an heartfelt, awesomely written, and powerful message.

      As for Searching, he’s been insufferable for the past couple or few days. He seemed to fling his anger at almost everyone, once he got started, and of course refused to tolerate any differing views. I mean, I’ve seen him be rather pompous several times, but aren’t we all (or some of us imperfect folks, like me) on occasion?

      But this was way different. And I thank all of you for trying to deal with him, because every time I started to, it looked way too ugly so I just stopped. Colin, you are a saint for reaching out to him (that’s my guess), and I’m glad you did. Thank you.

      I’m wondering if he got off of his meds, or started new ones, or something. Seriously. But whatever it was, he’s got some ‘splainin to do!

      Thank you ALL!!!

      • racerrodig says:

        He’s been on other sites and does the same thing. He’s as far from being a Team Trayvon member as could possible be.

      • groans says:

        Really? I’m surprised (and apparently naive).

      • Xena has always been respectful and kind to everyone. For Searching Mind to attack her for her beliefs are beyond the pale. He/she responded to my comment to Romaine with mocking. I’m done with them from here on out. Mia Angelo says when someone shows you who they are…believe them.

        **Waves at Fauxmccoy** I’m going to be quiet now.

      • whonoze says:

        Just because SearchingMind is a militant atheist doesn’t make him a Zidiot. Just because he has a hot-button on a side issue doesn’t mean he’s trying to undermine the blog. I’m not aware of his criticism’s of Prof. Leatherman, but many of the Prof’s comments are hardly beyond critique.

        Remember the high road? It’s not just noble. It’s practical. If commenter S baits commenter X by calling X an idiot, the way not to derail the blog is to not take the bait. It seems SM was ready to back off, and then he got counter-attacked and the flames re-ignited.

        IMHO, SM had a valid peeve in his original post, though I would say he framed it too confrontationally. He asked people to leave their religion out of the discussion, which I take to be a legitimate request, but also one that people who post here should be able to consider or ignore as they choose.

        Like SM, I wince at some of the expressions of faith and spirituality here. Unlike SM, I choose to ignore them. I would choose to ignore SM’s rant against them as well. But the flame war iS deraiing the blog, and everyone participating in the exchange of ad hominem attacks has to take some responsibility for that.

        **hoping we can all stay on topic in the future**

      • Xena says:

        @groans. Thank you for witnesses to my nature and ways. And, thanks to everyone else who has come to my support.

        Now, let us put the issue behind us and ignore the agitator. There is still an accused murderer who killed a 17 yr old unarmed child awaiting trial.

        Justice for Trayvon!

      • cielo62 says:

        groans~ you’re a pretty fine human being yourself. I, too, am not without guilt in this, but I’m a white hispanic; I get hot under the collar. I’d prefer a peaceful resolution. Pettiness brings us all down, and again, mea culpa in part of that. I’m grateful for the cooler heads like you and Faux McCoy who speak up with sanity.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          appreciate the compliment cielo. i cannot tell you how good it felt to say what i wanted, walk away and take a nap so i could disengage.

          • cielo62 says:

            Faux McCoy~ I envy your online coolness. You’d never know it by my online writing but I’m pretty calm in my classroom. Kids don’t faze me at all. I can handle bugs, snakes, blood, puke, you name it. I expect that in 2nd grade. But I get impatient with adults, since I expect more mature behavior. Instead, I turn into a hot head myself! Oh well. I do appreciate your calming words and sane response. I’m off to my bed soon as well. Have a super night!

  42. boyd says:

    Breaking news The Conservative Tree house have discontinued their George Zimmerman blog due to the many “trolls”. lol

    • Xena says:

      The Zimmerman wasp nest was taken down. They’ll just find other places to go with their poison.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      i do not normally look at the treehouse or talk left – but did find this to be an interesting development.

      didn’t talk left just go through some odd change as well so that some sections became ‘closed’ or that only established accounts could comment? obviously, i am not clear on the details because i do not visit – but if anyone does know, would you mind posting?

      if the two best known pro-gz sites are undergoing radical changes, that would appear to be more than mere coincidence.

      • boyd says:

        I do not visit Jeralyn’s site too much. They did close some sections but she keeps the main blog open. She’s pro-defense in all cases I think. Because of that the Zimmerman lovers believe she’s one of them. That’s my take.

        She made one crucial point about the Zimmerman trial, he should have kept his mouth shut and gotten a lawyer. Had to agree with her on that.

      • Malisha says:

        Blogs (which provide IP addresses to LEOs and so forth) suddenly going silent about Fogen would make me wonder if this isn’t part of a plan for Fogen to vanish. He wouldn’t want to be posting (and have his daddy and etc. posting) from places that could be located; and he wouldn’t want to have those who are getting ready to “disappear” him expose their IPs to all and sundry as they work their “magic” in finding him refuge from the big bad Blacks who are railroading him…right?

        Hmmm. What is Fogen DOING now? Where is he doing it?

        Why is there radio silence now? WHere’s Daddy? Where’s Mumsy? Where’s bro-Junior, the American expert on racism? Hmmmmm…

        Check in any tree-houses?,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.43828540,d.dmg&biw=1236&bih=683&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=2YZDUe3RNvHF4APfmoGADw

      • onlyiamunitron says:

        “didn’t talk left just go through some odd change as well so that some sections became ‘closed’ or that only established accounts could comment? obviously, i am not clear on the details because i do not visit – but if anyone does know, would you mind posting?”

        TalkLeft has had a problem with commercial spam, apparently out of Turkey, but who really knows, but it has nothing to do with the Martin/Zimmerman case.

        Jeralyn having a day job and not being able police the site 24/7 has had to block new registrations several times over the past year until the would-be spammers go looking for their next target of opportunity and convenience.


      • Jun says:

        oh god

        now they are going to infest somewhere else

    • groans says:

      Holy Cow! That is surprising news! I wonder if it has anything to do with their recent publicity (infamy?) in a certain court of law.

  43. fauxmccoy says:

    at the risk of sounding like a forum mommy, i am going to ask that we all do our best to keep our cool until fred returns. this is his house, we are his guests, i would hate for him to return and see his living room trashed.

    we all know that there are exploits to word press such that anyone can post using false credentials. i have no idea if this is going on right now or not.

    i would ask that each of us think twice (or more) about posting right now. we have but one purpose here and posting in anger to other posters is not it. responding to those who you may feel have slighted you, again, is not it.

    as a kindness to our host, i ask that we all practice tolerance at this time, until fred is able to address issues as he sees fit.

    thanks and sorry for any lecturing.

  44. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    You know…… of the most outlandish things gz said was that he needed Jon’s help to hold Trayvon down after he shot Trayvon in the heart!!

    • ay2z says:

      That would have been a felony charge, assault? The absurdity of it all, manhandling a shot person, it was criminal and cruel, nothing less.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Given that Trayvon died almost instantly, does such a charge exist along lines of perverted abuse of a corpse for fraudulent purposes?

      • Malisha says:

        “because he was still struggling and cussing…”

        Still “struggling” and “cussing”?

        Why would he be struggling?

    • Rachael says:

      I think he was fucking drunk or high and staring in his own cop show.

      • Rachael……psych meds & alcohol………good mix huh?

      • Malisha says:

        Psych meds, alcohol and FANTASY.

        FANTASY: The mystery ingredient.

        • racerrodig says:

          Diary of FogenPhoole ………….
          February 26, 2012
          Dear diary, it’s raining out and a little cool. The cupboard is bare so it’s off to Target for some shopping. We don’t have any money and the card is maxed out, what to do.

          My fantasy is to use that finely made Kel – Tek someday, and not at the range with Mark. Well, SheLie says dinner is ready….hope she made enough

          March 15, 2013
          Dear Diary, It’s pretty nice out today but I have to be back in in an hour. I just can’t seem to satisfy my appetite any more, and SheLie can’t worth a damn so, Pizza Night favorite.
          Mark called today and said the Conservative Treehouse is not allowed to talk about my case anymore. Maybe I can get him to shut down Leathermans site.

          Oh well, I guess my fantasy now is to get this GPS bracelet off. But I have a new favorite song now.

          Lunatic Fringe – I know I’m out there
          I’m in hiding, and yet you hold your meetings
          I can hear you coming, and I know what you’re after
          You’re wise to me this time you won’t let you me keep the laughter
          wise to you this tiiimmme

          Lunatic Fringe – in the twilight’s last gleaming
          Seems like open season, but I won’t get too far
          ‘Cause I’ve got to blame someone for your own confusion
          You’re all on guard this time looking for the Final Solution
          all on guard this time

          Oh Yea-a-a

          We can hear you coming no you’re not going to win this time
          We can hear you coming not gonna win
          You can hear the footsteps out along the walkway
          You can hear the footsteps out along the walkway

          Lunatic Fringe – we all know you’re out there
          Can you feel the resistance?
          Can you feel the thunder?

          Oh Yea-a-a

          • Xena says:

            @racerrodig. As Blushedbrown would say, you so crazy.

            Where is Blushedbrown?

            I’m having problems with Chrome not loading Shockwave. It’s happening too often, so I am downloading Firefox and will be offline until everything is okie-dokie.

          • racerrodig says:

            Didn’t bb say she had something to do or somewhere to be for a day or 2??

            March 15, 2013
            Dear Diary….Life sucks. I lost all of my liars, er, supporters on the internet and that LLPapa guy keeps making new videos, as if he were there. SheLie didn’t make enough dinner again so I had to ask security to go out for some pizzas. They must have misunderstood me because they went out, ate pizzas and never brought them back to me.

            Life sucks but Mark O’ Mara said I have a good chance of something, I forget all those legal terms. Incarcerated….that’s what it was. He said a good chance of getting incarcerated…I guess I missed that chapter in school, but it sounds important. It’s probably like Immunity, but better.

            There’s not much money in my defense fund so I guess Mark won’t get paid this week. (he never listens to me anyway)

            Gotta run SheLie wants some nookie so I’ll take my walk now.

      • Jun says:

        In his fantasy, the scrawniest most non-violent hippy kid, is, Black Dynamite, and he appointed himself as the Great White Hope aka Officer Johnson of Twin Trees PD Watch, but he is not longer white like he claims on all his identifications as he is now Afro Peruvian Japanese Korean Muslim Jewish Karate Syrian. I could be wrong though, I have not kept up with what race the FogenHitler KKKlan is claiming to be this week.

        I bet you Junior claims to be a white person on all his ID’s LMAO

        The Conservative Tinfoil Hat lives in the same fantasy world, which is, listed below in numerical order their beliefs

        (1) Every black person is a threat, especially if they are smart.

        (2) It is because of the Jews and their liberal media

        (3) The Chinese are taking over economy and business, gotta listen to Trump

        (4) It is not called incest and molestation and attempted rape. It is called playing doctor.

        (5) It is Crump and all black racists’ fault. They have too much power. There was no need to investigate and indict a white, I mean Afro Peruvian Jamaican, for killing a black kid.

        (6) Teenage kids are not allowed to run way from them or yell for help or try to defend themselves, due to their imagined authority.

        (7) It is not called stalking, it’s called neighborhood watch but not neighborhood watch.

        (8) Black people are able to run faster than speeding cars and survive gunshots but are easily overcome by the shimmy

        (9) When in doubt, scream and shout, I am not a racist

        (10) Because the cops were able to conclude Trayvon did not steal the jewelry, it means that he stole the jewelry and also makes lean with Skittles

        (11) If Fogen tries to molest you, attack you, rape you, steal from you, no one is allowed to defend themselves whatsoever.

    • Jun says:

      I am going to bet he told Jon “you shut up about this or I will kill you like this kid too”

      Call it a hunch but I doubt even without a gun, Fogen would have trouble with Trayvon in a physical altercation, considering, one is a kid and the other is a creepy crazy weirdo

  45. I hope the Professor and his lovely wife are alright. I’m worried about them.

  46. A video tribute for “Change” in honor of Trayvon Martin

  47. Soulcatcher says:

    A white, Hispanic, Afro-Peruvian man,
    Captain George his headin for the can,
    Fucking coon he muttered under his breath,
    Then stalked and shot a black kid dead,
    No regrets, “it was God’s will”, that I am the one left to stand.

  48. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Xena, I can’t post on your site and apparently am using the wrong password. What should I do?

  49. acemayo says:

    Remember while TM was smashing GZ head into the sidewalk
    Hitting him in the face, busted his nose, place one on his busted
    broken nose thee othe over his mouth. Blood cover eyes he used his Jedi training he sense what TM was thinking throught all that

  50. acemayo says:

    How did GZ handle all that pain
    How could he think in all that pain
    Because you and I somewhere banged our head
    Could you walk straight or even think with so much pain
    Please before you are sent away tell us how to handle the pain

    • Rachael says:

      See, that’s what gets me. How could he get in and out of the car so briskly and walk around that way the next day, “like nothing happened.” I know I’d be sore as hell and not moving very quickly. Of course, after all that head banging against the concrete and 24-fists to the face, he should have been in a hospital bed for a day or so at least. gahhhhh.

    • racerrodig says:

      Director “…..okay…….rolling……and ACTION !!!”

      Fogen “….um when I have a headache from the concrete I….um…”

      Director “CUT !! listen…..I usually work with professionals outside of the prison so, no more stuttering and knock off the “um” all the time…….READY take 65…….and……ACTION !!”

      Fogen “Um..”

      Director “CUT…CUT….CUT…..lets try again”

      Fogen “When I get a headache from the concrete I always reach for the asprin”

      Director “CUT…….it’s “I always reach for the “Excedrin”……got it?”

      Fogen “When I get my head bashed on the concrete and my brother doesn’t want to see me in diapers, and that wouldn’t be a pretty site, I always use Excedrin……wait, um what are you doing….stop, don’t throw the camera at me….. wait a minute no ! .helpmehelpmehelpmehelpmehelpmehelpme”

  51. racerrodig says:

    So at 1:45 are you saying you got fatter & shorter when you chased arter Trayvon…..or taller & skinier ???

    I learned nothing……You get no money.

  52. colin black says:

    Romaine says:

    March 14, 2013 at 6:27 pm

    Question, is it normal for a client to pay to up grade their lawyers office?

    Omara seems to be doing a lot of redecorating with the defense fund

    @No its not normal.
    But nothing about this tragic event has been normal from the get go.
    Its not normal that an armed man can follow an harras a minor.
    Call in the non emergancy line to report this normal Child.

    As a weid dude something up with him.
    Lots of breakins in the neighbour hood up to no good.
    An he is a Black male wering a button.
    He is here now
    Shit he is running .

    An seconds minutes later this child was dead with in the sight of his own back door an safety.

    None of this is normal
    He stole his life his dignity as he sqaushed the last breath out of him with his fay arse .
    None of that is normal he also stole his voice an screams an pleas to live.

    An then he stole his reputation as he chrisentened him SUSPECT an told us what an out of control killing machine bad mad mo fucker this dude was.
    An how he was a hero a decent sqeaky clean MERICAN.

    Nope to normality with in sight yet.

    Is it normal for an attorney to upgrade his office an install extra phonelines for Internatinal Media an many many many more staff or interns to provide with .
    Many many new pc an shredderes staplers ect it all mounts up.
    This is where the normality kicks in.

    If you have a client like the foggage one whom didnt own a thing .
    Had no saveings to his name .
    Whom was actually in the hole deep in debt.

    It makes perfect sence he has never been able to loook after the meagre amounts he has had in the past.
    Now when initialy strangers where flinging money at him as he had finaly been recognised as the important man of respect.
    He always knew himslef personaly.
    But now others were seeing his greatness.
    Makes totall sence such a major celeb as him should have an attorneys filled to the gunnells with stuff.
    Material things prove he is a somebody.

    Makes sence to piss away 7 plus grand a week an go all 007 when your a celeb.
    Makes sence when he can spend this free blood money on whatever he wants.
    Because the masses rogognise his need.

    Pay off my bills with the masses of money tttttbeing sent by the masses.

    So it has begun so it shall never end makes sence right.
    Beachfront Propertys new phones pre paid contracts.
    Bullet proof vests new high range rentals his an hers.
    Its what the masses demand.

    I wont need money for defence because I will never be charged .
    An if I am then the masses shall rise for the righous man whom made a rightous kill to defend my life.
    An all will understand when I explain an then I shall never have to work again.
    Make sence yet?

    He has prepared a short summary wich will make all clear.

    • ay2z says:

      colin black says:
      March 14, 2013 at 9:19 pm
      Romaine says:

      March 14, 2013 at 6:27 pm

      Question, is it normal for a client to pay to up grade their lawyers office?

      Omara seems to be doing a lot of redecorating with the defense fund

      That’s why I think O’Mara and West interpreted the situation as ‘Fuckin’ GOLD!’.

    • ay2z says:

      Another notch, thanks.

    • Xena says:

      But LLMPapa, Papa Zim said that he heard GZ scream like that when he was a teen. “A teen.” “A teen.” Get it — “a teen” screaming — not GZ screaming as a 28 yr old grown-ass man.

      • Rachael says:

        Of all the “freudian slips,” this is to me, one of the biggest, and there have been a LOT – like GZ saying me and my wife then taking back the wife part, I put my hand over his mouth I mean he put his hand over my mouth, and all his body language doing one thing while he says something else. But this one was most telling. It is like he has just come right out and said he knows it was not GZ screaming, he KNOWS it was Trayvon.

        It isn’t like he said, “I know that’s George’s voice, but I never heard him scream like that. There musta been some shit going on.” He didn’t say, “I know that’s George’s voice, I’ve heard him scream like that before.”

        He said he’d heard George scream like that before lots of times WHEN HE WAS A TEENAGER!!!!

        There was only 1 teenager there.

        I hope when they play that, they put him up there and confront him with that. It was such a blatant admission.

      • towerflower says:

        There is also an interview with Serino in which he says “he (TM) was screaming.” Serino jumps in and asks who was screaming and he corrects himself “I was screaming.”

      • boyd says:

        George is mentally defective. Who could have interpreted the 911 operator speech as “get out of the car and do a look see for me”. ???????!!!!!

        He alluded that to Police, and his brother said that on
        the NPR interview. His thought process is like a silly character on a comedy show.

        Not to even mention, who would risk hiding money and a passport on a murder 2 rap bail hearing?

        Oh, and how did he get that shot off again? Where was the kids legs. TM was said to be pinning him down without aid of hands at only (they were covering his mouth and nose) 158lbs? So where were his legs? Maybe on his upper torso, yet when he explained to police how he got the shot off, he just reached down and pulled out the gun. Not to mention why no blood on TM hands as the EMT said 70% of face covered with blood.

        Then explain to me why he said he looked for an address on the far side of the backstreet? He said TM made a right down the dogleg, why go past the dogleg to get an address? I’ve learned with George not to believe one of his stories. He adds in fiction to every one.

        • racerrodig says:

          Why dwell on those pesky details and facts…It’s not like he has to prove anything right? Except in court that is.

      • Rachael says:

        @ Boyd “George is mentally defective. Who could have interpreted the 911 operator speech as “get out of the car and do a look see for me”. ???????!!!!!”

        I have to LOL because you would not believe how many people I have heard say that GZ was doing what he was told to do because the dispatcher said “let me know if he does anything else” like that means to get out and follow or continue to follow. LOL

    • i’m so glad that fuckin smirk has been smacked off his stupid face/
      never to be seen again!

      • racerrodig says:

        You got that right….I love that picture of him crying in court.

        • Yeah…..crying…..poor fogen…a victim again……..THAT’S one of the things I dislike the most about him, is his playing the “victims” role…

          POS has not one bit of “man up” in him.

          • racerrodig says:

            Not an once of manhood. The ultimate is telling the world he was the one yelling for help.

            The Ultimate Coward… bout adoubt it.

  53. ay2z says:

    O’Mara has released more discovery, publishing photos of Trayvon’s cell phone. I’m not linking their site, but what they provided to News13 instead.

    • Xena says:

      O’Mara released the discovery to the public, but it is actually the State’s discovery to the defense. IIRC, this is what O’Mara argued about in court, and BDLR responded that the defense could have been out East when the cell phone was analyzed, refused, and now wants the State to explain the analysis to them, which the State is not obligated to do.

  54. ChrisNY~Laurie says:

    After watching most of Trents pt. 1 video, I can totally see that Trayvon would’ve ran straight up to RVC where there is light and turn right torwards Brandi’s/back enterance instead of at the T. Fogen ran to the T, not RVC and he is the one that turned right down the dogwalk in hopes of finding Trayvon before he got to the back gate. He continued past the end of the first row of townhouses when Trayvon appeared behind him by cutting between the 1st and 2nd row of houses to get to the back of Brandi’s. When Trayvon saw Fogen he turned and started walking north because Fogen was between him and Brandis house. This is where it all started, right where Trayvon’s phone and Fogen’s flashlight were found ..several feet south of Trayvon’s body and this is why one witness saw them running south to north.

    • ay2z says:

      Is it even possible under real conditions (trees without foliage etc), sitting with Honda ridgeline headlights on, to see someone turn down the T, and if not, how could the shooter see his victim turn?

      Trent remarked that the grade between the streets is quite steep, so how high and how far would bright headlights reach to easily see someone dogwalk/sidewalk turn at the T? Or is the grade too much different than the parking on the street? Fogen was hell bent on emphasizing the suspiciion of ‘cutting between houses.

      • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

        He probably saw Trayvon run up the hill and that is when he got out to run after him and then saw that Trayvon turned right down RVC, so that is why he turned at the T and went down the dogwalk. Fogen says that they all cut between houses.

    • Tzar says:

      trayvon told deedee that the man “was coming up BEHIND him”

  55. Xena says:

    Trent Sawyer (stateoftheinternet) went to R@TL in Sanford, FL and filmed some video that he presents in 2 parts. The below is part 2.

    Trent makes an interesting comment about GZ knowing what street he was on when asked for the address he was parked in front of. GZ knew he was on Twin Trees Lane, but he described it to Sean as a “cut-through” as if it was not a street. Good catch, Trent!

    • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

      I didn’t realize that Fogen passed the street sign that shows Twin Trees every time he would exit/enter his gated community using that front enterance or everytime he would park at the clubhouse. I already knew he was lying because nobody lives in a development for 3 yrs that has only 3 streets and not know the names of those streets, but geez he passes the dang street sign daily!

      • Jun says:

        Also his statement that he would have the cops call him and him tell them where he is, signifies that he knows the area

      • acemayo says:

        Do not foget he went house to house in that gated community
        with pen and note to talk about starting a NW, so he wrote
        the people address in was in or out of that ideal, he also handed
        out flyera I think

      • Cercando Luce says:

        Good catch!

      • Xena says:

        @ChrisNY. Sean, the dispatcher, used an approach to get GZ back inside his truck. Just like child providers and teachers of children with behavioral problems, 911 operators are also taught to re-direct certain behaviors without leaving room for argument or justifications to refuse.

        Knowing that GZ was following the suspicious guy, Sean asked GZ for the address he was parked in front of. Most folks in those circumstances would have said, “Just a moment. I’m almost back to my vehicle now.” Some may have said “I’m not at my vehicle now. Do you want me to go back?” Not GZ. He may have not said that because he knew Sean wanted him to go back to his truck.

        So what did GZ say? That he didn’t know the address — it’s a cut-through. as though he was not parked on a street with a name. Then we ask, why didn’t Sean tell GZ to return to his truck? And we answer, because GZ said “He ran.” But Sean, still trying to defuse the situation, asked GZ if he wanted to meet the cops at the mail boxes. Why?

        Because GZ led Sean to believe that where he was parked was a “cut-through” and not a street.

        Now, in his re-enactment, GZ conveys that he understood exactly what Sean was trying to do, because he thinks for Sean, telling Serino that Sean asked if he still wanted the cops to come out because the guy had ran.

        So how does GZ continue his deception? He tells Sean to have the cops call him for his location. It’s the same as saying, “I don’t know where I’ll be when the cops come” and that piggy-backs off “He ran.”

        What Sean missed in GZ’s web of deception is that GZ said he didn’t want to give out his complete address because “I don’t know where this kid is.” That reasonably conveys that GZ did not see the kid leave the gated community, was close enough to hear GZ talking, and could still be found.

      • racerrodig says:

        New Fogen “friend” “Okay, now once I get to your development where do I go?”

        FogenPhoole “……um, well….go in the gate and look for a street, I don’t know the name but…, you don’t make a left……well you’ll see my truck….”

        NFf “Wait, what’s the street name?”

        Fogen “…um, I don’t know, but 111 is part of the address and look for the cut through then…”

        NFf ” I need a street name or at least where do I turn, not where I don’t turn”

        Fogen “..can you have them call me……you have my number?”

        NFf “What ?”

        Fogen “….are you coming to check me out…”

    • towerflower says:

      Both entrances are from Twin Trees Lane, I can’t believe someone didn’t know the road name of the entrances.

      • Nef05 says:

        It’s wose than that, Towerflower. By saying he had to go to the next street to see a sign, he’s saying he doesn’t know the name of that street either. That’s two out of three, and he lives on one of them.

        If the three streets in your neighborhood are Oak, Elm and Birch streets, just because you forget Oak street doesn’t mean you should have to walk over to Elm street to see a sign to know it’s Elm St, especially if you live on Elm St.

        The way fogen stated it, made it appear as if needing a sign to know it’s Oak street, is automatically followed by needing a sign to know what the next street is, because you don’t know the one you’re on. In a neighborhood you’re not familiar with, that would be perfectly natural. But, as we all know, that’s not the case here. Just add it to the mountain of lies, that logically don’t make any sense.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        And as Jun pointed out, “Have the officer call me when he gets here” means he knows perfectly well where he is at all times.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Trent raises an important issue. He says that he’s observed that it is indeed dark in the area, there is enough ambient light that W6 and W 11 should have been able to clearly see everything in great detail. He insists that anyone who doesn’t believe it, should travel to RATL and see for themselves. He says that the space back behind the houses is small and that Trayvon and GZ would have been literally at John’s feet.

      He also does not believe that the phone picked up those screams from upstairs, but that the person holding that phone was downstairs and just inside the porch screen. you can watch parts one and two by clicking here, but be warned Trent Sawyer aka stateoftheinternet uses strong language.

      • Xena says:

        @Lonnie Starr. Jeremy and Jenna’s 911 call that captured the screams reveals much more than their words. Jeremy was coming back inside when Jenna was on the phone with 911. When Jenna says “Stop” it is directed at Jeremy. We don’t know what he was doing when coming inside, but it was something Jenna didn’t want him doing.

        The tone of Jeremy’s voice demonstrates panic. Jenna’s hesitation when answering if she knew why the person was yelling for help also speaks volumes.

        Then there is John who said he thought that he heard a rock hit his patio door. Compare that to the EMT’s report that says GZ was hit on the head by a thrown object.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Xena, I agree with you on the fact that Jenna’s response to the 911 dispatch IMO is very, very telling also. she knew who was screaming for help and *WHY* yet she tells the person on the other end of the phone, that she does not know who is screaming and why they are screaming.

        She was witness to the entire altercation and she is lying about what she does and doesn’t know. how can a person be so damn cold hearted, as to know the truth behind the murder of a innocent child and yet, she keeps her mouth shut. if I did something such as this, I wouldn’t be able to live with myself. it takes someone with no heart as well as no morals, to do what she is now doing.

        Hopefully she won’t be able to have kids because, she does not deserve the title “MOTHER” in any respect of the word.

        • Xena says:


          She was witness to the entire altercation and she is lying about what she does and doesn’t know. how can a person be so damn cold hearted, as to know the truth behind the murder of a innocent child and yet, she keeps her mouth shut.

          In a word — fear. Self-preservation, fear. GZ killed Trayvon. He admitted it. So here was Jenna who called 911 while Trayvon was still alive. She might have hoped it would stay that way. Then her husband comes into the house all anxious and nervous, and then the gunshot. There was a crazed guy just outside her backdoor with a gun, and he saw Jeremy. What would he do to them?

          But the police arrive and GZ admits that he killed the kid. Why then would the police start passing out forms for residents to write down what they saw and/or heard? It should be a slam dunk case of murder. Was this man not being arrested? Is he going to be free and come at people who saw and/or heard what he did?


          Notice, John changed his story after the public demanded investigation. I suspect that had investigators interviewed again after GZ’s arrest, John, Jon, Jeremy and Jenna, would have told them everything that they said and/or heard.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          My guess is that people do these kinds of reprehensible things because they have a lot invested in the outcomes. All I can think is that they are somehow deeply involved. For these people to have made these choices so very early on in the investigation, their connections to these events must run very deep. So deep, in fact, that discovery would be catastrophic for them.

          • cielo62 says:

            Lonnie- or else they have a fear of “getting involved” especially in a murder trial. There are many horror stories of witnesses being called over and over again, only to have dates be cancelled or postponed. That leads to many lost days of work. The justice system is not very considerate to the witnesses.

            Sent from my iPod

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Yes, I can see that and agree… But the witnesses I’m talking about, were certainly not hiding from involvement in the case as you mention, but were instead offering false testimony. Doing so ensured that they would be called on to testify, but only if their testimony were not enough to squelch the case. So, perhaps they too had reason to believe that Fogen would never be charged?

            Did they think that their false testimony would be enough to prevent a trial by providing the “preponderance” of evidence needed under SYG? If so, that meant that they’d still have to be willing to tell these same false stories in a court of law. After all SYG is not implemented at the police stations front desk. Judicial review is still required either way. Which is why Wolfinger and Lee wanted no charges filed at all, so that judicial review could be avoided at all costs. Worse, why would they have an interest in preventing the law from playing out as it should? That’s a terrible indication. All that’s needed to bring federal criminal charges against Wolfinger and/or Lee is some affiliation with either the defendant or his family or friends, since it’s already established that they sought to pervert the course of justice.

            As things stand, they need better cause than that they simply believed GZ’s story, as a reason for having interfered with the investigation. It means nothing at all to say that they had no evidence that GZ had broken the law, because that is exactly what the investigation is designed to discover. You cannot stop the investigation before it starts, then declare it finished, complete and with no incriminating evidence discovered. That is not a defense they’d like to exhibit to a federal jury.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I wonder if it’s possible that one of the witnesses tossed a rock at Fogen and Trayvon in an attempt to break up the fight. Would anyone admit they did something like that afterward? I don’t see much evidence of any rocks being around, though someone might have some decorative gravel around their back porches.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          I don’t know why I didn’t think of it before but, since Sanford has had E911, they can GPS track any phone that calls the center. I don’t know if they can keep tracking after the phone is hung up, but that is a possibility because a cell phone is never out of touch with the towers, as long as it has power it’s functions keep operating. But they may be keeping it secret since if it were true, they could probably track any phone they had the number of.

          After all, if someone was being abducted and they managed to dial 911 then hide the phone, if the connection broke or the phone was discovered and disconnected by the abductor, but he or she still kept the phone with them, like in the car or house, the police would want to be able to keep tracking until the issues were resolved. Of course, they wouldn’t want to release to the public all their capabilities since that would render them less effective.

          My guess is they already have GPS for GZ, FDLE probably grabs that first as a routine, and don’t let the SPD come up empty on the data. That would be very telling. Gotta do another info search on e911 systems.

  56. Two sides to a story says:

    Papa Z posts his thanks to the Treestump near the bottom of the thread about their discontinuation of the daily Fogen thread –

    • Xena says:

      Interestingly, there are other blogs that Sundance did not recommend. Maybe he knows that those blogs or their owners might already be monitored for investigation of cyber-crimes.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        It makes you wonder if perhaps CTH had some law snoopers come around because of some of the more virulent posters there, such as David from SoCal who troubled the Prof.

        • Makes one wonder how fogen is feeling seeing sites that support him being taken down………The future is looking darker for him by the day…..AND….he knows it.

          • Xena says:

            @MMPat. Sundance didn’t take down the site. He is eliminating the GZ case daily discussion threads and recommended that they congregate on one or two other blogs.

          • racerrodig says:

            And it said they had some block buster that would blow the case wide open…..maybe he meant just “…blow the case…”

            Wait, my bad……Duhhhh to me. It was the pictures of Trayvon’s cell phone…….Case Closed !!

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Any one who has been a part of the blogger’s experience knows how devastatingly disturbing that empty feeling is, when one loses a familiar website or blog. Just imagine logging on one day and finding this blog gone 404, you’d be devastated. Desperate for your daily jolt of comradery and repartee. Which is why blogs have been getting “networked” with multiple blogs linked together so readers don’t get suddenly left out in the cold.

            Well the CTH isn’t gone but it’s been severely crippled and many of the formerly rambunctious players have fled for the hills ahead of possibly being held to account for their anti social expression. GZ and the defense team has got to be severely depressed. I expect Knox, Pipitone and Shultzman to be chilled by these events and begin to dial it back themselves. One can hope!

          • cielo62 says:

            Lonnie- you are 100% correct about the devastating effect of losing a well loved site. I mourned for weeks when Calvin and Hobbes stopped running. And that wasn’t even interactive!

            Sent from my iPod

          • I miss Gary Larson….He’s the man who made me realize I’m not the only one has those kinds of thoughts….

            Here’s a recent observation of mine…..You know the “Feed the Children” commercials?……the guy with the kids in poverty…..He’s sitting in a doorway with a little girl saying she’s going to go to bed tonight, hungry as most nights……

            WTF DUDE…’re sitting there next to her and you ain’t gonna feed her?

            Now back to the Caterpillar

        • Xena says:

          @Two sides

          It makes you wonder if perhaps CTH had some law snoopers come around because of some of the more virulent posters there, such as David from SoCal who troubled the Prof.

          LE has respect for freedom of speech. However, when speech is hate-speech, witness intimidation, doxing (which is illegal) and tag-teaming to promote cyber-harassment, that is a horse of a different color. If it’s true that Sundance had a revelation moment with LE, then it is in his best interest to stop providing the means to others to violate law using his blog.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        They’re just regrouping at Rumpole’s and Diwataman’s sites. So I don’t think there’s any real reduction in force.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          diwataman is not accepting according to his own blog. curioser and curioser.

          • cielo62 says:

            No, dimwatman says he’s a one man site and can’t handle that kind of traffic.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            i was paraphrasing – i took a look at his blog entry where he was actively discouraging being made a replacement site and posted his precise wording in a post below. mind you, i know nothing about this guy, but he did seem taken aback that his site had been linked as a click through ‘go here, now’ without being asked.

          • cielo62 says:

            Faux McCoy- I agree. He was less than pleased to have all those racists come knocking at his blog.

            Sent from my iPod

          • Xena says:

            Diwata said there was a time when his blog was not open to comments. Funny thing is that I just left there, and he has only 12 comments on his new post, with several being from folks who were banned from the treeslum.

            I wish him luck.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Cielo – that’s what Diwataman said, but if you look at his current blog post, he’s got quite a few comments lined up.

      • racerrodig says:

        “…might already be monitored…” I’ll see your “might already” and raise you a “…have been for many months…”

        • Xena says:


          “…might already be monitored…” I’ll see your “might already” and raise you a “…have been for many months…”

          I suppose that includes emails between them of schemes of who to attack, who to harass, and how to harass others to see whom is being attacked as a threat to them also. I recently learned that LE considers that activity as direct threats of intended harm.

          It’s like hearing them say, “See who we beat up? You’re next.” When they touched those people who they believe are witnesses in a 2nd degree murder trial, that opened up all their other illegal doxing for counts also.

          • racerrodig says:

            You may have made dinner already, but you’re cooking with gas now doll….

          • Xena says:

            @racerrodig. But Zidiots think they can outsmart the CIA. LOL!!! IP addresses are the internet’s fingerprints.

            Also, the one person sending others to do his dirty work using their IP addresses doesn’t realize that those doing his dirty work boastfully include his name in their communications. LOL!!!

          • racerrodig says:

            Yep….I think they were allowed to say their piece until things got to far.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Xena, those who thought they were doing all of this in secret, including some members of Fogen’s dysfunctional family if they took part in all of this, they will be facing charges according to Benjamin “Justice 4 Trayvon” Crump’s facebook site.

        I’m glad that they are facing charges and, I’ll bet the farm if I had one, that Fogen family members are knee deep in some of this.

        • Xena says:


          I’m glad that they are facing charges and, I’ll bet the farm if I had one, that Fogen family members are knee deep in some of this.

          No doubt West tired of being badgered by the Zimmerman wasp nest about DeeDee, and he might have turned over information to authorities. I mean, if Judge Nelson has to tell him for the forth time that she is not ordering the State to give him DeeDee’s address, West might be looking at sanctions. His career is not worth satisfying the Zimmerman wasp nest.

    • CherokeeNative says:

      I am just going to jump in here instead of my normal lurking and reading. I’ve tried to think of why Cracker has discontinued the Fogen daily thread – and I suspect that it is because of his recent outing of O’Mara so close to trial. When Cracker started posting entire articles about how unethical and compromised O’Mara is in the defense of the case, posters were commenting how they were not donating anymore..why bother..etc. I have a suspicion that Daddy Z has gone to Cracker and pled with him to cease the rant against O’Mara because donations have dropped to an all time low and with less than 90 days till trial, they need money. With the ZKlan, and O’Mara, it is all about the money. Cracker isn’t worried solely about winning the Fogen trial, his concern is outing the Crumps, the Sharptons, all the way to the POTUS, and he isn’t about to stop when he thinks he is on the road to “sunshine” (sarcasm)… So, out of respect for Daddy Z, Cracker has ended the daily Fogen thread, sent his roaches to other cracks within the baseboards of the internet and is continuing his “search for the truth.” In the meantime, Netters is busy over at the Dittowawa’s place reasoning with the roaches why O’Mara is not corrupt and pleading for donations before Fogen has to resort to claiming indigency. JMHO folks.

      • cielo62 says:

        CherokeeNative~ it sounds plausible, but more likely it’s more legal and personal; he’s in trouble with the law over doxing and witness intimidation and received a “cease and desist” order… or else.

  57. colin black says:

    The foggages ones acounts of the rein of blows head slams ect inflicted up on his person are more severe than this elderly gentleman describes his attack. Id like to compare an contrast with the photos taken of foggage the same night at S P D police station.

  58. ladystclaire says:

    I wonder why there is no new thread here. this one has been here for the past three, going on four days. I hope the professor and his wife are both alright.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Mason and Crane seem to leave the blog for a few days regularly when they’re busy. I wouldn’t worry about it.

  59. Romaine says:

    Question, is it normal for a client to pay to up grade their lawyers office?

    Omara seems to be doing a lot of redecorating with the defense fund.

    • ladystclaire says:

      @Romaine, and he is doing it to the tune of 40,000 at that. how did his office function before he hit the mother lode, with money Fogen scammed from a bunch of *IDIOTS* when, he in fact wasn’t charged with a crime, when he set up his beg site. all I can say is that, Fogen got a bunch of fools to pay off all of his outstanding debt.

    • Jun says:

      It is code for “Omara’s pocket”

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Our prof remarked about this in another thread. Like driving a luxury car when a sedan would do, or something to that effect.

  60. colin black says:

    Re above the fogggage one thinks he superior to Women an certainly felt Trayvon was so inferior to him his takeing his life by blasting through his heart with a hollow piont.
    He pulled the trigger as a souless hollow peice of crap.
    Pity the bullet wasnt as empty as his sence of compsion an empathy for a fellow mortol.

    He also thought him self superior to the masses whom sent money for his defence.
    Or in reality for his heroics in ridding the streets of a Black Teen.
    The guy that shot up the car with the invisible shotgun pointed at him.
    He woulda backed foggage one.Or that old geezer whom executed the boy an girl in his basement.
    He would support the foggage one.

    He also thinks he is superiour to me an you an his wife he treats with.
    Yup tenderised her hide before he slung her to the wolfes.
    In his foggage guise as potted palm.
    Peter Pan an the lost souls no lost boys in his actions of avverice an contempt for his VICTIM.
    Mocking an lauaghing the wit of his useing a hoodie to evade the photographers when his bail is set.

    No only a lost boy Trayvon lost forever so his murderer.
    Not only stole his life an his voice as his final pleas for mercy.
    Then turns around an justifies his criminal actions.
    By mirroring all his agresive chaseing stalking circleing my car.
    Actions onto his victim placeing his threats into Trayvons mouth putting his over agersive attatude onto Trayvon.
    When you got a system like the foggage one of always placeing the blame an his criminal behaviour on another.
    If it isnt broke you dont fix it.
    Land Lord wants his rent?
    Phone the police on him he the bad dude me good dude.
    Worker wants paid for non graduation party phone the police on the bad dude dont get what his deal is.
    Wants paid for serveing bar at my graduation party.
    An I never graduated something weird about him .

    For the first time his version of stop hitting youself stop hitting yourself has failed him.
    His reverse switch put all my bad deeds on the VICTIM has failed at the time when he needed it the most.

    • ladystclaire says:

      @colin black, yea boy he did have some nerve calling LE when his land lord came to him in order to collect his back rent. the cops in Sanford, FLA are in need of seeing the wizard because, they should have never answered that call.

      Fogen owed this person money and, he wasn’t wanting to get up off of the money. the moron called LE for just about everything except for when he and SheLie went to the BR and, I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if he didn’t call them for that, and we just haven’t heard about it yet.

      The big OBESE bully makes me sick and, I’m so hoping we can get a jury with common sense and, convict his ass.

  61. fauxmccoy says:

    something interesting is afoot at the nuthouse and it only took me two visits to discover this (first was by accident, months ago and i never went back.

    if you click on the link for further discussion of all things Saint Zimmerman, you get to diwataman’s blog whose most recent post starts out

    Blog Update

    Okay, first things first. To those who may have read at the Last Refuge that daily George Zimmerman open threads will be posted here let me inform you that will not take place. I’m unsure why Sundance advertised otherwise as there’s never been discussion or comment to that effect. No hard feelings mind you towards Sundance and I’m sure he’ll correct that position once he’s able. Also as you may see from my history of blogging since July 2012 I don’t post very often, I am also a one man operation here so I wouldn’t expect too much in the way of responsiveness or daily threads of any sort.

    funny haha and funny peculiar

  62. colin black says:

    Malisha says:

    March 14, 2013 at 4:58 pm

    We don’t have a recording of the “What you doing around here?” clip from Fogen. At the time he said that, he was probably freaked because Trayvon had actually asked him a logical and rational question: “Why are you following me?” Fogen expected Trayvon to be a frightened, cowering, knowing-he-was-guilty criminal who, Fogen’s fantasy had it, would immediately cave, beg, blubber, and emit something suitably subservient, servile and submissive, such as, “You got me, I’m guilty, take me in, you got it, you got me,” or the like. The challenge: “Why are you following me” could have put Fogen into a state that sounded to DeeDee like an old voice. Maybe very tense, possibly voice cracking, forced, urgent, creepy.

    @Foggage when challenged in his mistaken beleif that he is superiour to Women.
    When served a restraing order by his ex abused fiance,
    Chalenged by Her he simpply mirrored her allegations laid against him.
    He mirrored them back on her because he has no logical coherent defence or answer.

    When challenged by Tratvon not only was it challengein g his authority as NW as this suspects better/
    It was a complete miss nomer /culture shock to foggage.

    Startled he has no answer to …What you keep following me for.
    Or why are you hear around my person again now on foot.
    An you have been following me by car an now foot for a long time.

    All that can be infered by a reasonable person ftom that single sentance.
    Why are you following me.
    Stunned by this turn of events an with no logical answer.

    He mirrors his victims enquiry back at him.
    What are you doing around here?
    Its instinctive its what he does when challenged.

  63. towerflower says:

    Poor treepers have no home, LOL. I think I saw a sign about firewood for sale.

    • racerrodig says:

      Firewood from rotting tree’s doesn’t burn real well either.

      • That’s why wood from rotting trees is called “Punk Wood” Buddy 🙂

        • racerrodig says:

          And that’s an Outhouse with a lot of Punk Wood….that’s for sure !

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @racer and mmpat — they appear to be mourning wood at the moment … in other words, a buncha …..

            draw your own conclusions 😉

          • racerrodig says:

            They are making it seem as if pictures of Trayvon’s cell phone are breaking the case wide open. Damn Sam…..I smell desperation !!

          • fauxmccoy says:

            little sticks … yes, they are a buncha little sticks 😉

          • racerrodig says:

            Looks like Judge Nelson has no choice no but to dismiss the case. Lets face it, none of us thought they ever crack the case, and the evidence was just so obvious and overwhelming….who ever thought it would take them this long???

          • fauxmccoy says:

            were the three little pigs hiding in the tree house made of little sticks when the big bad wolf huffed and puffed and blew it all down?

          • racerrodig says:

            I guess we’ll get blamed for that now…….and I’m damn glad of it.

          • Xena says:

            @racerrodig Lets face it, none of us thought they ever crack the case, and the evidence was just so obvious and overwhelming….who ever thought it would take them this long???

            (Hehehehe) O’Mara had to wait until GZ gained over a 100 lbs. Now, he can have GZ stand up in court, wave photos of GZ taken at the police station on 2/26/12 and say, Your Honor. As you can see, the man that was arrested looks nothing like my client. This case must be dismissed.

          • racerrodig says:

            So this one goes down as “The Case of Mistaken Obesity”

            That’s as lame as “The Octopus Defense” or “The Big Boi Defense” but certainly one they would try.

          • “Mistaken Obesity”……LMAO 🙂

            The man couldn’t hide behind a Sequoia…….

            All is good tho….he’ll make new friends in the pen, and they’ll invite him to work out on the iron pile with him…….Just hope someone doesn’t forget to spot for him doing bench presses 😐

          • racerrodig says:

            Oh I’m sure his favorite is squat thrusts……I heard he can bench 6 bags of groceries now.

          • Race…..sorry…..somehow the impression I got of “squat thrusts”…..was fogen taking a dump………

          • racerrodig says:

            You must be psychic.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        @ Xena:
        “Your Honor, the Court must dismiss this case because defendant is too big too fail!”

        • “Your Honor…..if my client falls it will result in Florida’s first historically recorded earthquake…….If he happens to fall in the ocean the result will be a tsunami”

          • Xena says:


            “Your Honor…..if my client falls it will result in Florida’s first historically recorded earthquake…….If he happens to fall in the ocean the result will be a tsunami”

            GZ might float, in which case we might see him on an episode of Animal Planet’s Whale Wars.

          • I’ll vote in favor of the Japs on that one….

            Although I DO NOT want fogen sushi…. 😦

        • racerrodig says:

          Fail or fall ? Remember “Weebles Wobble but they don’t fall down”

      • Dried cow chips burn kinda good………gives a shitty flavor to anything you cook over it though……

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Xena and Racer, you two need to take a turn in the naughty chair. LMAO, weebles wobble but they don’t fall down, maybe that is why he hasn’t taken a tumble down the aisle when he enters the courtroom. wale wars, ain’t that the truth Xena. if he gets any bigger, he just might find himself in one of those Florida sink holes. do you guys think that his attorney’s are keeping him out of the public’s view until he loses some of his girth before his trial begins?

    • ladystclaire says:

      @racer, LMAO! you are definitely too much but, I love ya anyways. as the old saying goes, no fool no fun.

  64. Malisha says:

    We don’t have a recording of the “What you doing around here?” clip from Fogen. At the time he said that, he was probably freaked because Trayvon had actually asked him a logical and rational question: “Why are you following me?” Fogen expected Trayvon to be a frightened, cowering, knowing-he-was-guilty criminal who, Fogen’s fantasy had it, would immediately cave, beg, blubber, and emit something suitably subservient, servile and submissive, such as, “You got me, I’m guilty, take me in, you got it, you got me,” or the like. The challenge: “Why are you following me” could have put Fogen into a state that sounded to DeeDee like an old voice. Maybe very tense, possibly voice cracking, forced, urgent, creepy.

  65. Trained Observer says:

    Malisha Had been curious (and admittedly amused) way back when about DeeDee’s perception of Fogen’s voice as that of an “old man.” Am now having second thoughts — and not about DeeDee’s perceptions, but on whether there was indeed an old man on the scene. So, um, yeah, WTF!

    • Malisha says:

      TO, I do think Fogen’s voice sounds “old” in that it sounds kind of weak and trembly. If you do not see Fogen, and you hear his voice, it is possible to think of him as an angry old man. Try it. Try to forget what he looks like and listen to his taped interviews. I can see how DeeDee would think his voice “old.”

      • Tzar says:

        Deedee could have meant “older” and not “old”
        to a 17 yo everybody with a fully ripened voice is old

        • racerrodig says:

          Exactly, when I was 17 anyone 25 or older was old, and the expression was don’t trust anyone over 30.

          • No duh huh Race?

            Now I watch science programs and the professors & experts look like teenagers to me…….Such are the ways of becoming an old fart.. 😦

            BTW….my oldest turns 40 this year….What a long strange trip it’s been. 🙂

          • fauxmccoy says:

            are we supposed to stop trusting ourselves at this point? (just seeking advice from my elders) 😉

          • I believe I started trusting myself more once I grew out of the

            “Hey Ya’ll ….watch this shit”….phase of my life 🙂

          • fauxmccoy says:

            @ pat – for me, that moment arrived when i realized that the police were knocking on my door because i called them as opposed to previous reasons 😉

            (usually it was due to the bose 901s and the rolling stones, but still)

          • racerrodig says:

            I’ll probably be dead when my son turns 40., Well….I’ll be 82 anyway.

      • I concur. Teenagers think 30 is old.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I agree, Malisha.

      • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

        Not to mention, Fogen most likely tried to sound intimidating when he asked Trayvon what he was doing around there. Any person doing that or sounding authorative will come across as “older” in a teenagers eyes.

    • Jun says:


      Fogenhitler has a creepy old man whispery voice

      Listen to his jailhouse calls

  66. Malisha says:

    Witness-11 heard someone say, “What are you doing…?” and Witness-8 (DeeDee) heard the “old man” say “What are you doin’ around here?” and Frank Taaffe, back when he was getting a little camera time of his own in this case, insisted that Trayvon would have been alive today if only he had ANSWERED Fogen’s question! How did Taaffe know that Fogen had asked a question? According to Fogen’s statements (both written and recorded) to the police, only Trayvon asked a question: “What’s your [fucking] problem [homie]?” and only Fogen answered a question: “[Hey man] I don’t have a problem.”

    So, um, WTF?

    • Jun says:

      That’s the main problem with the defense is that W8 is supported by forensics and on scene witnesses as to what happened

      W11 & w18 support her confrontation claims and w2 adds to her claims of chase and she was only there by ear via phone of Trayvon’s

    • Tzar says:

      If you scrutinize Fogen’s testimony and claims, WTF will become your mantra.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Neither Fogen nor Francis nor Osterman can keep their stories straight, that’s what.

      • racerrodig says:

        When my dad was still a cop he told me that if 10 people witness an accident we will get at least 12 versions……because at least 1 will change his story twice.

        So your observation is classic. Liars and those pesky lies.

      • groans says:

        Interesting, Racer. As a corollary, prosecutors should presumably be adept at addressing such a reality in court – did your dad ever talk about that?

        • racerrodig says:

          Yes, but the lawyers I do work for even more so. The key is get the critical witnesses in for a deposition ASAP. When they see a story changing, they take a dep from the most credible witness and go item by item. Them take another dep from the on who is changing the story and see if that one differs.

          It’s not really hard to do. My part in the civil cases if facts. Very often a defendant or witness like to try to sell the court on a version of “..I was being pummeled so I drew my firearm and fired one shot”

  67. colin black says:

    Trained Observer says:

    March 14, 2013 at 1:42 pm

    I didn’t know about remains of heart sticker on his phone. What irony … that he’d be on that phone with his girl when a stalker would approach to shoot him in the heart
    Thats one of the first things that leapt out to me.
    After trunkmoms perverse walk away free for killing a baby trial.

    I Swore that was it never again would I allow meself to become emotionly involved with a crime half way across the world.
    And Florida was number one on my list.
    Funny enough both trunkmom an hairiass commited there crimes with in a week of each other in 2008 an yet Casey an her missing Todler lies.
    Trumphed J Hairiass Lies of Nija Assins an oh I wasnt even there that day.
    Photos you say I would like to see those photos Jodi asks the detective Florez……..No you wouldnt jodi trust me.

    Anyway I was interested in both cases an swampmom walking floored me.
    Not because I wanted trunkmom to die Im agin the death penalty for moral reasons.
    But I wanted somone to stand up for CAYLEE,

    Her family an egg doner never stood up bye or for the VICTIM
    They made the murdereng phyilly out to be the victim along with themselfs as victims.

    An all the while laughing all the way to bank there blood money an go on cruises.
    Have the VICTIM turned into BLING.

    Talk about TRASHY people.

    An remember there were those heart stickers from swamp hags scrap book .
    Remember scraps little pic girls saved up.
    An the alleged outline of a heart sticker on the ductape.
    Wrapped around CAYLEES wee mouth .
    Thee times around her head the uniqe brand almost.
    From there garage .

    So when I heard about this case an Trayvon being blasted through the heart with a hollow point projectile.
    It sychrinisised every thing for me the momment the heart sticker on the phone was mentioned.

    Everything I thought yet another blatant murder in Florida .A obviously lieing perp like kc an claiming innocence an telling unbeleiveable things events that couldnt have happened.
    Just like trunkmom an theres heart sticker evidence involved as well.?

    Its almost as if Floridians as citizens an potential jurours are being given a chance to redeem themselfs.
    Make the right desisions in the veiw of the entire world.
    Show us you do have hearts.

  68. Malisha says:

    There once was a fellow named Fogen,
    whose NW activities were “rogue-in'”
    He set out all prepared
    to find someone who scared
    him so he could prove he was the “SHOGUN”! 😈

  69. colin black says:

    Zimmermans defence is in a spin.

    As there client is rather dimm.

    Instead off zipping up an keeping his thoughts private to him.

    No ridiculass versions he was unable to stop his mouth to spin.

    Each one he told another lie to justify his mortal sin.

    At first he though he would walk no one cared no crys no dinn.

    But then the truth began to settle in.

    People vented there despair an fury an demanded he face a jury .

    An there would be no free pass to kill given to thugs that murder like him

    An when the foggage is lead away for his future lies in prison permanently

    No one will even remember him only the sin with the world he did deface.

    An embaressment to the human race a waste of space.

    Unlike his victim whom dreamed one day to fly.

    All this foggage did was lie an lie.

    Trayvons name an love shall never die no matter how the biggots try.

    An although his Parents an Loved ones faced immence pain.

    They shall never walk alone again.

    Trayvon there in that last picture that tear has taken all his fear.

    An he will be for his loved ones ever near .

    An as to the one that shot him now its your turn to fear.

    An your fear will never be cleared by one single tear.


  70. groans says:

    OMG – those are FEBRUARY, not March! 😳

  71. groans says:

    “The judge handling the case of slain Florida teen Trayvon Martin says it would take extreme circumstances for her to grant a continuance for the self-defense immunity hearing of a former neighborhood watch volunteer charged in Martin’s shooting.

    “Judge Debra Nelson said Thursday that she would, however, consider rolling George Zimmerman’s immunity hearing under Florida’s “stand your ground” law into the scheduled June trial.

    “Defense attorney Mark O’Mara will formally get to argue for that during another hearing next week.

    “For now, Nelson has reserved the final two weeks of April for the immunity hearing.”

  72. groans says:

    “Zimmerman hearing set for today [3/14]
    “A hearing Thursday will determine if George Zimmerman’s “Stand Your Ground” hearing will actually happen on April 22″

    • ay2z says:

      The current docket last entry. Aprill 22 is gone from view now.


  73. PYorck says:

    I apologize if anyone posted this already and I missed it, but we got a mini-doc-dump today:

    As far as I can see there are no real new insights.

    • Trained Observer says:

      I didn’t know about remains of heart sticker on his phone. What irony … that he’d be on that phone with his girl when a stalker would approach to shoot him in the heart.

  74. colin black says:

    Fauxmcoy here is side by side translation of to a mouse in Scots an English to clear any confusion with some words you mentioned

    re jummper wich is a scots word for a pullover jersey type garment woolen/
    Some strange looks when a tourist driver in Scotland has battery trouble an asks if he can borrow a jumper.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      colin – thank you 🙂 whether it be DNA or actively listening to the stories of my forefathers, i am generally able to read old scots and middle english with relative ease.

      the only thing that has ever thrown me was ‘jumper’. i could not see why my grandmother would wish to dress my father, quite the handsome cowboy in his younger days, as Dorothy 🙂

  75. fauxmccoy says:

    off the top of my head, but will surely come up with better ~

    there once was a defendant named george
    upon junk food he preferred to gorge
    a gps applied to his ankle
    before our eyes became a cankle
    has not reduced his ability to forrage

  76. Cercando Luce says:

    An eye-witness said to the cop
    “The big man was sitting on top!”
    “Do you believe what you see,
    or do you believe ME?”
    asked Serino, “so just let it drop.”

    • Trained Observer says:

      When Fogen denied his “fuckin coons”
      Some thought maybe “fuckin’ goons”
      Yet as his own words come into play
      Shedding light on lies of his fatal fray
      Fogen proves he’s the “fuckin’ loon”

  77. MMA……Mixed Marijuana Assault…. 🙂

  78. Cercando Luce says:

    A lie? Why, what could it cost a man?
    “I was attacked by a big scary Rasta-man!”
    The big witless snoop
    thought he’d still fly the coop
    All while protected by Osterman.

  79. whonoze says:

    Feeling the need to leaven the over-riding tragic and disturbing nature of this case with some ironic shits and giggles, I’ve started a Zimmerman case limerick thread on the whonoze blog. Other forms of verse are welcome, (and parody lyrics to familiar songs as well, of course).

    My opening contribution:

    Two lawyers O’Mara and West
    Had a client who wasn’t the best
    They tried and they tried
    But their guy always lied
    In private, “We’re fucked” they confessed.

    • cielo62 says:

      Whonoze- LOL! Limericks are my favorite.

      Sent from my iPod

    • Rachael says:

      Good one!!! I gotta get going now, but I’ll be thinking of one. I sure love reading them though.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Two lawyers named West and MOM
      Took on a killer, a dumb lying Tom
      Machinations leading to trial
      Left’em with a smirk and a smile,
      Lamenting BDLR, he’s da bomb

    • Cercando Luce says:

      A killer both both feckless and seedy,
      with close-set eyes lightless and beady,
      told a whale of a tale
      of a threatening black male
      which unraveled thanks to witness 8 (DeeDee).

    • Trained Observer says:

      Thanks to cops led by ex-Police Chief Lee
      A stalking murderer thought he’d remain free
      Then came a victim’s defender named Crump
      Delivering blows for the evidence dump
      Now murder-2 guilt is plain for all to see

    • Trained Observer says:

      Sanford cops talked to assorted wits
      yet on their collective asses they did sit
      Then along came outrage black and white
      With public opinion exerting its might
      Exacting a murder charge that so supremely fits

    • fauxmccoy says:

      whonoze – that is delightful! i love limericks and will see what i can contribute 🙂

    • Rachael says:

      There once was a boy named Trayvon
      To college he thought he’d go on.
      ‘Til George with a gun
      Thought to shoot would be fun
      And now our dear Trayvon is gone.

    • gbrbsb says:


      (Written to the music of, ”Oh, dear, what can the matter be“, also known as “Johnny’s so long at the fair”)

      Oh, dear, what can the matter be
      I shot Trayvon and the whole thing blew up at me
      I should be the hero, I’m sure I deserve to be
      ‘Cos I know it was part of “God’s plan”

      One night while patrolling, protecting the colony
      I saw a young hoodie, where I thought he shudna’ be
      To me he looked suspect, despite walking leisurely
      I knew it was all in “God’s plan”

      I called the police to inform of the suspect
      But I knew it was useless ‘cos hoodies run fastest
      So I tracked and pursued him right down to my lastest
      What else could I do, t‛was “God’s plan”

      Now Angela Corey’s gone charged me with murder
      And some even say she should’ve gone further
      I feel so contraried, I can’t stop eating burger
      Not sure this was part of “God’s plan”

      At least Shelly supports me, and so does O’Money
      And Osterman used to, but he’s now acting funny
      He’s written a book telling more lies than any
      Please, what should I do with “God’s plan”?

      My Treehouse supporters donate me their dollars
      But it just goes to show they’re not studious scholars
      They could drop me tomorrow if they realize who hollas
      Help, what can I do with “God’s plan”?

      If I ever get through this, it won’t be my doing
      I’ve lied and contorted, which should be my ruin
      Seeking justice for Trayvon is not of my wooing
      T’was no fault of mine but “God’s Plan”

      Should I go to prison I’ll start a new hobby
      Mentoring lawyers and burglars and unfaithful hubbies
      I’ll teach them to lie but not to be sloppy
      Or things will go wrong with “God’s plan”

    • ay2z says:

      Lawyers Sonner and Uhrig did tell
      the cameras ‘our client’s not well’
      Lost contact by Sunday
      Stayed advisors for Monday
      By Tuesday told client ‘go to hell’.

      • looolooo says:

        More like he told them to go to hell. they were obviously p o’d that he humiliated them and blew their chances to bask in the limelight. I’ll bet JO and FT are both livid that RZJ is getting all of the camera time, and we haven’t seen or heard from either of them in a while.

        I wonder if RZJ and GZ even comunicate with each other. Does anyone know? I seriously doubt they do. I truely believe RZJ is an opportunist and a sociopath. A very short and stumpy sociopath….. who wears too much make up.

      • Malisha says:

        I think Fogen was all set to run away before being charged and the lawyers did not want to be blamed for it or have anybody execute search warrants for their offices. Fogen thought he was going to have a little tete-a-tete with a friendly LEO and then scoot and leave behind a world of supporters screaming about him being chased out of the known world by thugs and would-be MMA-style burglar-murderers, when he ooopsed himself into custody without even having a public statement read to the panting-and-standing-by Rene Stutzman so she could “scoop” it. He had the gun in the car, snacks for the ride, and probably the next leg of his trip planned out with the extra passport and the disguise — some fool may still be waiting behind one of the dumpsters of a donut shop on the highway.

        • cielo62 says:

          Malisha– that’s something I’ve wondered about. He goes to visit Corey with a borrowed gun in the car, not to mention a back up knife. What was the plan?

          Sent from my iPod

          • fauxmccoy says:

            cielo says

            that’s something I’ve wondered about. He goes to visit Corey with a borrowed gun in the car, not to mention a back up knife. What was the plan?

            i think this is evidence of his addled thinking and not much more. when corey stated that the defendant ‘turned himself in’ she was being kind; that was certainly not his intention as he did not know that there was a capeas issued for his arrest. my best guess is that since his phone calls had been rejected that he put on his ‘thinking cap’ and proceeded to deal with rejection in his usual manner, by chasing it down.

      • ay2z says:

        Version 2 as per looolooo

        Lawyers Sonner and Uhrig did tell
        the cameras ‘our client’s not well’
        Lost contact by Sunday
        Stayed on until Monday
        Client’s message to them, ‘go to hell’.

    • ay2z says:

      Barbara Walters and Hannity both flew
      to florida for interviews to do,
      Hannity got his to air
      Walters left hanging– No fair!
      But payback she served on The View

    • ay2z says:

      Air marshall Mark Osterman
      Admires Fogen, local Neighborhood Watchman,
      As his apprentice he taught
      To shoot without thought,
      To load the hollows and follow his plan

  80. Rachael says:

    OMG, the outhouse today wrote a story called “The Sociology of Victimhood – “Zimmerman Case”

    And what pisses me off royally is (and I don’t normally mention names, but I have to here) is a comment by Lou. His name used to be Loudajew and it got me so angry one day because he says things NOT Jewish person I’ve ever known (being Jewish myself) has ever said. My Jewish household and community never saw the likes of someone like him.

    Get this:

    “Lou says:
    March 14, 2013 at 7:32 am

    “they have to understand that the media is their enemy, and they should not feel comfortable with them. they must demonize Trayvon at every turn, because in reality Trayvon was a demon. any Jewish lawyer would have already brought up Trayvon’s school records for the world to judge…”

    Disgusting!!!! Absolutely DISGUSTING.

    Whenever I read his posts, it makes me almost feel ashamed to be Jewish – then I realize it is HE who should be ashamed as a Jew to say the things he does.

    Sick sick last refuse at the outhouse.

    • Jun says:

      He’s obviously not Jewish because if he was, he would understand the law, because Jews are good lawyers (as Adam Sandler always jokes) LOL

      His lawyer did try to demonize him and guess what? There was nothing there that showed that Trayvon was violent in any way. All they have is maybe Trayvon smoked weed and that he had jewelry that the cops even stated he never stole. So it goes to prove all their demonization is all lies because there’s nothing substantial there. Now Fogen, hmmmmm

      They’re all sociopaths over there and they however do understand victimhood because they victimize people for their ill gotten agenda

      But like all Tinfoil Hat reps, he or she Lou is a coward who hides behind a computer screen and would never publicly voice his opinion like all other creeps

      • Rachael says:

        Well, they are going to cut off the daily GZ thread topic – “not really” because they have been getting any heat, but because there are so many other things – they do not want to be a GZ only site you know. Ugghhh. However, Sundance is awaiting some FIOA information of his own – “and we are awaiting current documented information that will nuke the narrative of lies and manipulations. Perhaps disintegrating the case completely.

        While the GZ case will not take center stage – this is absolutely essential for a few reasons – not the least of which is time to focus on publicly exposing aspects the defense is too chickensh!t to tackle. Pffft….

        He also wrote an article on how much he hates O’Mara.

        So there will still be GZ stuff and Tryavon/family hatred there, just not concentrated in one area – but like he (Sundance) says, you can get your daily hatred from rumpole2 and diwataman’s blogs. Ughhhh.

        I don’t know if I should go back to bed, puke or both. It all makes me sick.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Rachael, I e\will be so damn glad when this case has been tried and The guilty party is convicted and sentenced, so these *IGNORANT B******S* can slither back to their respective trailer parks. I still want somebody to tell me, how is this the best country in the world, especially since we have got people like those at the dog house living among us.

        These people can’t get any lower than what they are now. Trayvon never did a thing to them nor to the one who took his life. I wonder if any of these comments are being sent to the state and, if they are not being sent, they should be.

    • well it really must suck to be them! LOL

      they can’t trust anyone, they don’t like anyone. and no one is listening to them or their inarticulate advice for gz’s defense. and no one cares about their complaints against omar and his strategies.

      they get no respect!! so they aren’t gonna play with omar and west anymore! the tree sloths are gonna have to take care of getting gz off all by themselves. NO MORE ASSITANCE from the idiots!! hahaha as IF!

      • fogen realizes his support base is falling…..No doubt he’s been watching jodies trial…….He will still be free on bond during the trial……..when he realizes his fate is sealed….before conviction……I still predict he’ll either run (waddle)….or suck some lead himself when he see’s he’s toast.

        Just more of fogens failures…..

      • Trained Observer says:

        MMPat — I agree that he’ll likely try something to weasel out of his mess. That’s his life-long habit — with plenty of help from Pops.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @MMP, I too believe Fogen will more than likely make a (waddle) for it and, I say this because his parents have stated that they had been looking for safe places for them to live but, I believe they were looking for some where to help their son flee to.

        These lying people are not and have not ever been receiving threats of any kind and. they should be a shamed of themselves for telling those lies. some of them have lost jobs because of threats and, that is another lie. how in the hell would others know where these lying ass people work in order to make threats to them on the job? one thing about it though, this family will never be accused of having any *COMMON SENSE, OR MORALS* and that is a fact.

    • racerrodig says:

      That kind of crap is all they have…..notice they stay as far away from the case facts as humanly possible.

    • Malisha says:

      @ My sister Rachael: Oh there are Jews of all sorts, don’t worry about it. There are Afro-Peruvians of all sorts too; that doesn’t mean all Afro-Peruvians are lying shameless murderers! Lou can be a total asinine fool with the moral gravity of the left knee of a flea and it won’t reflect on you or me. Baruch Hashem!

    • Puck says:

      Was this written by an actual sociologist? Because I, an actual sociologist, would have no trouble (and would delight in) shredding anything these dimwits proclaim as the “sociology of” anything. I have already stated here that my evidence-based conclusions are that this is ALL. ABOUT. RACE. If anything, the underlying motivations and drives of the Zidiot Nation are hackneyed rehearsdals of the self-pitying notion of conservative white victimhood. (I haven’t read it yet, though.)

      • fauxmccoy says:

        puck – as you may recall, our areas of study are somewhat similar with some overlap. you are our resident sociologist and i am the lowly anthropologist. the article referenced is sick, without doubt. i took a look out of morbid curiosity (you know, studying my fellow man). it is when i got to the comments section that i ran in horror of that which my fellow man is capable of ‘thinking’ much less stating in a public format. just a word of caution – should you venture in that direction, bring your hip waders and some mental floss for a much needed thorough cleansing afterwards.

        • cielo62 says:

          Faux McCoy- and to think that people even used to act on such sick beliefs just boggles the mind. I can’t wait for the day when such thoughts are just examples of mental illness.

          Sent from my iPod

  81. Romaine says:
    look at pic # 16 on this link you can view the back of a kel tec pf9 too, also check out the video the kick back from the gun is vicious

  82. Romaine says:
    i watched LLMPAPA’s “georges’ courage” video and noticed the shape in the back of the gun so I looked for more pics and in the link above i found the very first pic…look at that pic and tell me if you think it fits the shape of the bruise on the back of georges’ head

    • kimmi says:

      There was a picture of ‘the gun’ overlaid on GZ’s injuries to the back of his head, and it fit remarkably well. Unfortunately, I thought I had saved it, but now I can’t find it. I will post it if I do.
      Does anyone know the picture I am referring to?

      • Romaine says:

        I have that pic Kimmi, for me that picture does not satisfy the location of the gash at the bottom of that injury.

        in the links if I posted if anyone else bothered to look?

        I’m looking at the back of the gun not the trigger area.

        If anyone would do me the kind favor of looking at the pic.

        check the long piece that extends while the gun is cocked it has a horse shoe shape with sharp edges that would leave a gash that i believe lines up with the injury to the defendants head.

        the first pic is of the gun in its regular position.

        the second pic is when the gun is loaded and ready for shooting

      • kimmi says:

        I found it the picture of ‘the gun’ and GZ’s head injures.
        Please see link.

      • kimmi says:

        Sorry, I didn’t see your reply before I posted the link.

      • Romaine says:

        Thank you Kimmi

    • gbrbsb says:

      A poster on the Z team (DW or grumpole) has made a montage of GZ´s fitting Trayvon’s iced tea can with GZ’s left nose injuries. It’s not even a bad fit, (I am absolutely not saying it what happened though), but it made me laugh because IF it is totally illogical to believe Trayvon for no reason whatsoever sucker punched GZ on the nose, and please note I say IF which IMO is unlikely, then IMO their apparent argument that Trayvon hit GZ with a can he bought to drink watching the match would show even more powerfully that it was Trayvon hitting out in self defence… hoisted by their own petard!

      • racerrodig says:

        Put that thought out of your head, as the can would have shown damage and DNA. In all likelihood the can would have exploded on impact as the aluminum is real thin. My friends son did that demonstration and 8 of the 10 times it can broke open.

      • Malisha says:

        How do those Outhousers explain the fact that their guy did not say he was hit in the nose with a can? Was it God’s plan that he mistook a fist for a soft drink? Or did he just get so flustered by having put his cell phone in the wrong pocket (after forgetting the street and not seeing the house numbers and not “knowing where the kid is” and not being able to say “truck” or “rhymes with fuck” and not remembering he had “the” gun…) that he lost touch with reality and thought:

        A can of liquid is a fist;
        A fish is a brand name car seat for an infant;
        A metal box containing bags of dog poop is a peccary;
        A kid walking home from 7-11 is a threat to freedom everywhere;
        and * all * like * that. 😈

        • gbrbsb says:


          What stupidity. Either read my post PROPERLY or go put your questions to the Outhousers as you refer to them. My comment did NOT go in any way against the Leatherman Blog’s groupthink so your aggressive reply is both unwarranted, undeserved and most certainly unexpected from someone as intelligent as you appear to be… from those not so intelligent it is expected and therefore more understandable and forgivable

      • Malisha says:

        @gbrbsb: Huh?

        First of all, if you think I responded aggressively to YOU, I don’t understand how you got there but if it was my inexpert expression that caused that misunderstanding I am sorry. Second of all, if it was your misunderstanding of what I wrote with at least basic comprehensibility that was to blame, please back off a minute and listen to me, OK?

        1. OK you could “forgive” me if I was stupid but you think I am not. Thanks for that.

        2. You would be forgiving me, presumably, for answering YOU aggressively, when I thought it was pretty obvious that I was not doing that. What I THOUGHT I was doing was agreeing with you and reinforcing what YOU SAID. Thus:

        You said:

        A poster on the Z team (DW or grumpole) has made a montage of GZ´s fitting Trayvon’s iced tea can with GZ’s left nose injuries. It’s not even a bad fit, (I am absolutely not saying it what happened though), but it made me laugh because IF it is totally illogical to believe Trayvon for no reason whatsoever sucker punched GZ on the nose, and please note I say IF which IMO is unlikely, then IMO their apparent argument that Trayvon hit GZ with a can he bought to drink watching the match would show even more powerfully that it was Trayvon hitting out in self defence… hoisted by their own petard!

        So I think I read you correctly.

        I think I read you to say that the “Z Team” came up with the idea that Trayvon hit Fogen with the can of iced tea in spite of the fact that it was “illogical” and that hitting Fogen with the can of iced tea, just like hitting him with a fist, would have been self-defense on Trayvon’s part in any case.

        I believe I am correct in my interpretation of what you wrote.

        So what did I write that got you so angry with me?

        I came in right behind you saying, “Yeah, what HE said,” and adding a few more reasons of my own.

        I SAID:

        How do those Outhousers explain the fact that their guy did not say he was hit in the nose with a can? Was it God’s plan that he mistook a fist for a soft drink? Or did he just get so flustered by having put his cell phone in the wrong pocket (after forgetting the street and not seeing the house numbers and not “knowing where the kid is” and not being able to say “truck” or “rhymes with fuck” and not remembering he had “the” gun…) that he lost touch with reality and thought:

        A can of liquid is a fist;
        A fish is a brand name car seat for an infant;
        A metal box containing bags of dog poop is a peccary;
        A kid walking home from 7-11 is a threat to freedom everywhere;
        and * all * like * that.

        So, gbsbrb, I was trying to agree with you and further “stick it to the Outhousers” to ask how they could arrive at that idiotic explanation. I wasn’t doing it to promote “groupthink” or to be aggressive towards you.

        In closing, I don’t know how you got me wrong but I was trying to agree with you. I certainly wasn’t trying to be aggressive towards you and I respect your comments and your intelligence. If I read you wrong, I read you wrong. I have upon occasion made mistakes — I actually remember that I made a mistake in 1976. Sorry! 😳

        • gbrbsb says:

          Malisha, I am so-o-oh-o sorry, mea culpa, and perdoneme. I do not know how to do the red smiley but take this as one big one of them on my behalf.

          To my chagrin once I read your quite rightly angry 2nd reply, reread your 1st reply and reread my own comment, I realised I had misunderstood you entirely, wrongly concluding you were firing questions at me expecting me to answer what the treehouse bloggers were thinking as if I were one of them! After accusing you of not reading my comment “properly” it is embarrassingly clear it was I who did not read yours with due care, unfairly jumping to an erroneous conclusion. I cannot therefore apologize enough, more especially because for so long I have appreciated your well thought, honest and creative comments and even though not every time can I agree with some of the “findings of fact” decided here I have always realised that it was my opinion and I hope tried to respect what I saw as good thought processes whatever they led to. Of late with all the accusations of “troll” against some I respect enormously for their thought processes even though not always in agreement I have found it difficult to express anything branching out from the mainstream which is perhaps what caused me to be somewhat trigger happy with my anger today (Racer didn’t seem to understand what I was getting at and I thought you were also making the same wrong conclusion). I do know that in the heart of hearts of all bloggers here is the hope that between us we can work out something that could just maybe help the prosecution because although most here are secure in the thought GZ will not walk free I am not fortunate with that surety which both pains and rankles me.

      • Malisha's son says:

        @gbrbsb – My mom, Malisha, is currently unable to get online. So, by proxy, her response, paraphrased – We’re cool! Glad it was just a misunderstanding.

      • Malisha says:

        @gbrbsb: Oh thanks, I’m glad we both got it now, thanks.

        Here’s the smiley: 😀

  83. Malisha says:

    About an immunity hearing AFTER trial (necessarily that would mean after acquittal): Think of this.

    Jury believes reasonable doubt is 10% doubt.
    They believe the prosecutor only came up to 80% so they acquit.
    Then there’s an immunity hearing.
    With that 20% doubt, the defendant cannot make a 51% case for HIS story to be the truth.

    See how it would be a Constitutional horror story?

    The fact that there is “immunity from prosecution and from civil suit” altogether is unconstitutional in my opinion because prosecution is based on enough evidence for a “prima facie” case and a civil suit is not the government’s prerogative but a private plaintiff’s prerogative and a private plaintiff takes on the risks and rigors of litigation. But if you were to start allowing immunity AFTER trial in cases of acquittal you’d pretty soon unravel the whole court system. Think about it. I sure hope Florida doesn’t lead the way to a wholesale abomination that makes it unprosecutable for any large corporation to do whatever it chooses to any lawyer-less potential civil plaintiff or complaining witness. We’re headed for real feudalism if that happens. And the ONLY defense available will be weaponry and survivalism. This would be a place to flee in preference to Syria within a single appeal cycle.

    • ay2z says:

      Immunity hearings post trial, wouldn’t this open a pandora’s box, with a line up of convicts of manslaughter, murder, etc, all ready to jump on the bandwagon?

      But to be fair to fogen, he did try for an immunity hearing but the judge hardly had time for hearings and when she did, they only could spend part of the day with her, and so they couldn’t possibly get ready for trial in time, the system, the judge are forcing him to compromise his preparation, that’s why they had to toss the much needed SYG hearing slated for April.

      *sniffle sob*

      • Malisha says:

        Oh, and, yeah — they were “running out of time” — just as was Fogen when he had to shoot Trayvon Martin. Only they can’t just go off and shoot Judge Nelson, so like, um, oops.

        • racerrodig says:

          It’s called a “Pre – Trial Motion” for a good reason. As much talk going on about this, it can’t be held after the trial.

          You can’t be found guilty then say “oh wait…..maybe I could have been held Immune” The state of FL is not going to rewrite court procedures for Fogen, no matter what Moron O’ Mara says.

      • towerflower says:

        I would love to see fogen’s phone records, he has said that he knew he was out of time. I wonder if his phone was ringing because the cop was entering the area and calling him like he wanted.

      • towerflower says:

        That would also explain his fear of being seen with the gun and getting shot.

    • Jun says:

      The fact that they need to be repeatedly be told to just depose and tall to witness 8 really says something about their qualms with her

      I have no idea why they are so afraid to speak to her

      • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

        They are just hoping that they can find a couple of other DeeDee’s before they depose this one. LMAO

        I’m sure that they know that if they feel she lied about something and find proof of it, they can bring it up during trial when they have her on the stand. So, I assume that they are hoping to find something to somehow get her statements thrown out.

      • Jun says:

        Unfortunately all they have is ambiguous allegations based on ambiguity LMAO

        I wish they would just depose her and find out what is up

        All they have is other people saying she’s 16 or 18 (not w8 saying this btw) and that w8 had to go to the hospital or someplace during sometime because all they have is her saying she did not feel well enough to go to the wake and she ended up at the hospital or somewhere, with no exact date LOL

        It will be up to a jury and judge but her testimony is supported by other witnesses and on scene evidence so I do not feel anything will happen to her, and she will have a lawyer and the state protecting her

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        They are looking for dirt and hope they can get her to lie about it during her deposition.
        If they can’t impeach Dee Dee, it is a lot harder to keep GZ of the stand. Without Dee Dee, the missing minutes are just blank.
        Dee Dee’s statements that Trayvon thought he’d lost him, that GZ was following him again and GZ’s words “what are you doing around here?” are devestating to any self-defense claim, especially if he doesn’t offer his own version.

      • Jun says:

        The missing 2 minutes is not really blank IMO

        Fogen’s own statements contradict each other and show he was trying to hide the fact he went after Trayvon after getting off the phone

        How else did he end up that far from his car, that far from where he started (by the clubhouse to the south of the T point), and seen by witnesses confronting Trayvon and then causing a struggle from which it was described a kid was screaming for help?

        Fogen admitted himself he went after Trayvon but then tried to deny it later on because he did not want to get in trouble

  84. rayvenwolf says:

    OT: but just came across this the other day and had to share. Now normally I tend to skip fluff piece articles and blogs that are clearly from a member of the Z nation, but this was rather interesting in that clearly this person hasn’t studied the evidence in depth and how much like the random Z nation members in various comment sections he is.
    Why Florida Persists in the Zimmerman Prosecution

    For the highlights
    -The state was pushed by Obama and the media
    -If Fogen is convicted it will be a “grave injustice” & if he’s acquitted it will lead to “mayhem” in the streets
    -“The state’s case took a hit last week when Witness #8, Martin’s alleged 16-year-old sweetheart “Dee Dee,” was caught in falsehoods so flagrant that even the Trayvon-friendly Orlando Sentinel noticed them.” Trayvon friendly my dead aunt fanny
    -DD isn’t a minor and she wasn’t hospitalized
    -As usual treats what GZ says as if it were gospel straight from on high
    -Repeated #6’s FIRST statement, but does not acknowledge that he has since changed what he originally said

    It goes on the same repetitive line at length, but the long and short of it is that Jack feels Florida should drop their case.

    The real kicker is this last bit before a promo for his book on the case – What is it with every clown in the world thinking we want to buy a book on this case from those not directly involved?

    “Spiritually, however, Martin was a mess. As his social media accounts make clear, his life had collapsed into a morass of drugs, violence, theft, vandalism, truancy, parental abandonment, and borderline homelessness. No longer a little boy and not yet a gangster, he was a statistic waiting to happen.

    Martin, however, defied the statistics in one crucial way. Of the roughly 9,000 blacks murdered each, thirteen of every fourteen are murdered by other blacks. Martin was the one of fourteen who was not. More usefully still, he was murdered by what Tom Wolfe memorably called the “Great White Defendant.”

    • Malisha says:

      Interesting. I didn’t click on and read the guy’s whole article; who has time for that crap? But look at this quote:

      Of the roughly 9,000 blacks murdered each [year], thirteen of every fourteen are murdered by other blacks. Martin was the one of fourteen who was not. More usefully still, he was murdered by what Tom Wolfe memorably called the “Great White Defendant.”

      He was…uh…MURDERED…by what Tom Wolfe called the GWD?

      Notice, the greate writer of this article did not say that Trayvon Martin was “KILLED” by the GWD; he was “MURDERED” by the GWD.

      That’s precisely what the State of Florida has alleged!

      The State of Florida has not alleged that Trayvon Martin was a young Black male who was about to grow up to be a good person. It has not alleged that Trayvon Martin was going to be better than any racist’s expectation for him. It has not alleged that Trayvon Martin was BETTER than George Michael Zimmerman in any way. It has alleged ONLY that George Michael Zimmerman MURDERED Trayvon Martin.


      • rayvenwolf says:

        i’m sure jack was so full of jackshyte and hyperbole that his proof-reading missed that point. At least the rest of the Zitnation have the brains not to drop the murder bomb in their defense of him.

      • Malisha says:

        What the profogenites are really saying is NOT that Fogen did not murder Trayvon Martin — they KNOW he did. What they are saying is that it was OK for him to murder Trayvon Martin and anybody who objects to that is a [fill in the blank with anything you like such as anti-American, anti-white racist, liberal, Nazi, thug, thuglover, blah blah blah blah blah] so the conclusion must be right because those who oppose it are bad people whose opinions are automatically wrong.

        Why is it OK for Fogen to have murdered Trayvon Martin? [Yes they DO know that he did it.] Because:

        1. Most Blacks are murdered by other Blacks;
        2. Some Blacks have even murdered some whites, which is REALLY bad;
        3. All Blacks are easily converted to thugs, even post-mortem;
        4. Blacks hate whites when they’re not allowed to; and
        5. Siding with any Blacks against any whites makes you low class, even lower class than, say, Fogen and his.

      • Malisha says:

        MMPat, I was once working as a bartender in NY oh around 1974 or 1975 and two young women sat at the bar and had drinks and were talking to each other. I was not in the habit of figuring out “who” customers were but in about two minutes I realized they were Second Avenue East Side prostitutes (who didn’t usually come into that bar so I didn’t know too much about them). They were talking about how low class someone they knew was. She apparently had given them all kinds of reason to KNOW how low class she was. One would add one reason or describe one incident and the other would do her one better. They reached a high pitch. One of them then ventured into the real nitty-gritty: the subject of their scorn was a “N****r-lover.” They agreed that this made her lower class than the “N****rs” she apparently loved!

    • Xena says:

      Geez. When will they stop victimizing the victim and come up with something that proves GZ killed Trayvon in self-defense? Oops. My bad. There is nothing that proves GZ killed Trayvon in self-defense.

      • rayvenwolf says:

        Because they’d still be trying to come up with something even after he’s convicted. Oh wait they won’t because the bulk will move on with their lives such as they are. A few may cling on, even send money for his doomed appeals, but they will be just noise on the wind.

        • racerrodig says:

          Lets be fair here, most will finally get around to changing the flat tire on their house and some will even replace the burned out tail lights on ’em.

    • elcymoo says:

      Isn’t that the article from the American Thinker? There’s a reason I’ve long referred to it as the ‘American Stinker’. The way they skewed this one is a prime example of that right-wing wag’s dishonesty.

    • Jun says:

      It’s funny how DD is suddenly the world’s biggest liar but Fogen, even when he lies, it means nothing

      I dont think its even worth reading to be honest

      The people who write the articles are completely unreasonable and biased

      Usually the simplest answer is usually right

      The simplest answer is he killed a kid and that is a huge part of the crime of “murder” hence him being indicted

      And if his only excuse is drug use, than Mick Jagger deserves to be terrorized and murdered too, according to his twisted wisdom

      There’s no proof that Trayvon was some druggie. Maybe he tried marijuana but so has every other teenager. George Washington grew and smoked weed and he found the country. Besides that, most jurors do not like it when you attack witnesses or victims, especially if it is a moot issue like marijuana usage.

      • rayvenwolf says:

        But don’t you know, drugs are bad mmkay? And as far as the Zitnation is concerned a minor amount of weed makes him a druggie and a dealer. Can’t bother arguing the point that he was NOT high at the time, weed is not a gateway drug etc etc.

        A small part of me wishes I could sit with some of them and watch their faces as the watch the trial and notice all that THEY think is important never comes up or is pushed aside.

        • racerrodig says:

          “….a minor amount of weed makes him a druggie and a dealer.”

          Yep, and them thar good old boys sits around the still yaking that shit up…..yep, yep, yep…..pass the shine boys. Then again they must really be in hog heaven at the Klan meetin’ talking ’bout that.

      • Jun says:

        There’s something truly wrong and evil about them

        At the end of the day, those folks only care about themselves and their agenda

        A kid lost his life, pleading for help

        He was murdered by a coward in a depraved and evil fashion

        What Fogen did was not self defense, or brave, or human or even American

        The case is about Fogen and his murder and nothing else

        • racerrodig says:

          Well said BUT can we agree that Trayvon didn’t “..lose his life..” It was taken from him. I love ya, but I have a problem with that phrase ever since FogenPhooles condescending dad said that early on with that stupid lisp as he pointed at the “T”….the lying bastard.

    • leander22 says:

      Has Jack Cashill finally found his perfect angle for his attack on Obama?

      American Thinker + Jack Cashill

      • rayvenwolf says:

        Apparently so. Because you know every other argument is so passe.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        If you say “He’s so BIG, Jack Cashill” a few times, it comes out sounding less than complimentary.
        (apologies for dumb joke)

      • leander22 says:

        rayvenwolf, the article below was a revelatory moment to me. At the time the late David Mills aka Undercover Black Man posted it, I was very aware that the American Thinker belonged to the American right firmly politically, with a neoconservative outlook on politics. But to what extend this filters down on a rather racist take on the arts too, I wasn’t aware of. FrontPageMag is pretty similar. It seems a continuation of the culture war. Notice Horowitz also wrote a book called “Hating Whitey”.

        A Whiter Shade of Jazz

        David’s series on Horowitz were also pretty good. He did some really interesting research on Horowitz juggling with numbers in the context of black on white rape among other things.

        I agree with elcymoo above, by now I wouldn’t expect different take on matters from either of these places.

      • leander22 says:

        Luce, I wish I would understand. But admittedly I have problems to read the American Thinker, I rarely make it through one article there. The nausea becomes to strong already after a few lines. I am with Malisha on that.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        You end up pronouncing (more or less)”He’s a Big Ass H-le”– (I did say it was a dumb joke), because in English one tends to run the words together, whereas German always has a glottal stop separating words starting with a vowel from the end of the word before.

        • leander22 says:

          Ok, then I understood.

          Not sure what you refer to, composita, as we call it or compounds as you call it, it is not quite as easy and there is no clear rule. About 30% have some type of interfix like -e/en; -(e)s; -(e)n, or er for better pronunciation, but it is not related to vowels.

    • This is the real racism about this case. Forget Fogen!

      What is the only goddamn reason in the world that people believe Trayvon Martin is a thug that was looking to fight adults?

      His school records?
      Because he tried weed 10 to 20 days ago?
      Because his parents are divorced?

      What is the only possible reason that people will conclude that TM is a thug and that Joran Vandersloot might be innocent?

      I’m not talking about GZ, I’m talking about the media in general and their conclusion that TM really attacked GZ, Alan Douchebagnowits who demands the prosecutor drop the case without looking at the evidence, this profane and perversly racist article that is distributed to the very people who will be in the jury pool. Why are these people so dead set on corrupting a potential jury with so many articles when they could just simply drop it till the case goes to trial?

      This is sick…

      • rayvenwolf says:

        Besides the obvious and them using this case as a platform for their own bias? No reason, at least no valid one. IF Jordan Davis’ murder case was getting as much attention news wise they would be doing the exact same thing. Actually they would be worse since one of Jordan’s friends in the vehicle was supposedly on probation and the defendant’s claim that he saw a shotgun leveled at him. A shotgun that miraculously was never fired or emptied, giving him enough time to get his gun, load and fire off several rounds.

        There are some, but the numbers are not as large for this case. In a way its a good thing, because twice the extreme level of insanity, bigotry and racism would just be too much.

        • racerrodig says:

          From an article about new evidence on Jordan Davis.

          “According to sheriff’s deputies, Dunn said he fled the scene with his girlfriend because he feared for his safety. He was arrested the following day. Dunn has no previous criminal history and told deputies he had asked the teens to turn down their music, which prompted a verbal altercation.”

          And he’s claiming Stand Your Ground……How is that even possible since they were in their car. Does yelling “Booo” constitute a life threatening situation.

          He keeps saying there was shotgun but the police are “Standing Their Ground” on that one…..maybe he and FogenPhoole can be cell mates ???

          • rayvenwolf says:

            Different county so unlikely. Dunn also has a books worth of charges hanging over his head. His story is about as bad as GZ’s though. First he THOUGHT he saw a weapon(lawyer #1) after a changing of the guard with lawyers and officially being charged it turned into for sure he saw a shotgun.

          • racerrodig says:

            Yep, another preposterous “Revolving Story Defense”

      • ay2z says:

        nd at the top of the slop line feeding this, is junior and the defense team is doing their bit too– did they really think that saying ‘no racists need apply to send money’, would discourage them?

        I’ve come into a white supremacist while travelling in the US, in time to overhear him brag (and these words will never leave me) “I shot [said a number] of them”. The conversation I walked into, had begun not a couple minutes earlier, all total strangers to this person, who seemed to have an interest in discussing what he believed was our country’s problem of a certain race [not black] moving into a certain city. He may have been physhing for like minds, he found NONE. That whole short encounter was a real eye opener, makes you wonder if these racists meet up with people who spend winters in the southern states, to ply their views.

        He seemed to want to connect again, he sat at a building across the roadway, and looked right into where we were parked. I got a sick feeling in my stomach looking at his stare, knowing what he said, and was glad we didn’t have to walk the path he was sitting at before leaving the place.

      • ay2z says:

        correction, ‘come into contact with’

      • Jun says:

        It is because people like that are just evil people and not logical

        It is the same as saying when a tiger ate the zebra, it was out of self defense, when logically we all know a zebra does not stand a chance against a tiger

        If you look at how they present, they are not reasonable nor do they care about the case, it is just a platform for them to use

        All the people that signed the petition simply asked that there be a professional investigation, objective, and to give rights to the kid that was stalked and killed by the defendant, who by my account is lying about everything

        I do not feel what people of all races asked for in this case is unreasonable at all, because even before the evidence came out, his story was fishy at best

        We are supposed to believe a kid with Skittles and Ice Tea, running away from the defendant, avoiding the defendant is supposed to be dangerous to the defendant? A scrawny 158 kid with no combat experience presented more terror and danger than the defendant whom had a gun and a car and a lengthy history of stalking and violence? Why do you think they tell so many lies?

        First Trayvon was over 6 feet tall, some even said 7 feet tall, and Trayvon 200 pounds, and all that nonsense… they knew the truth was, even without a gun coming into play, the truth is, Trayvon could not stand a chance against Fogen, whatsoever

        Besides who cares what they say, none of them were there, nor are they objective, so whatever they say, does not mean much

        • racerrodig says:

          Again well said. Here’s food for thought…you said

          “If you look at how they present, they are not reasonable nor do they care about the case, it is just a platform for them to use”

          Back on Oct. 5th (Fogen’s birthday) when I was on HP, not one Zidiot wished him a happy birthday. I watched until well into the afternoon then went on rant on how they knew so little about him they didn’t know what day it was.

          The only responses I got back from Zidiots was (paraphrase) “It’s not about him, it’s about our gun rights and our right to shoot (defend against) “them” ”

          The members of Team Trayvon rolled with me on that the rest ofd the day. Look at the comments on the one year anniversary and Trayvon’s birthday here.

          Not one Zidiot actually has a complimentary word about Fogen, not one. They’ll rip Trayvon, his parents, Crump, the state,us and anyone who stands up for the victim.

      • racerrodig says:

        I can’t argue Mush Brain Dersh had an impact last year, but the NRA and those crazy racists are gung ho and 1/2 probably never even knew who Dersh was.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @racer, do you still post over at HP? there are some pretty sick IDIOTS posting there and the father of the defendant is the leader of the wolf pack and, IMO he ought to be a shamed of himself for taking part in defaming this kid who his son murdered in cold blood. this man hasn’t had a heart attack as of yet. besides, he lied about having one in the first place. you can’t have as many blockages as he claimed to have, and still be around to show your racism on blog sites! *THE LYING THUG.*

        • racerrodig says:

          I only gop over there about every 2 weeks to post. I do read some of the filth howver every few days. It’s the same 6 Zidiots with 10 names apiece. They still have no idea as to what the reality is.

          One doesn’t even know how to spell Trayvon. He actually popped up here and we called him on it. If you’d like, I can go over there and raise a little hell with them. Most don have enough hair on thrie ass to even respond back anymore.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @racer, you don’t know how glad I am that the LE in Jacksonville Fla, are not trying to help this POS in the Jordan Davis case get away with his crime. he probably thought that all LE in the state of Florida were as incompetent and racist as those in Sanford. there a quite a few on the force in Sanford who should be investigated and thrown in prison along with Fogen. as for MO, he is involved in Trayvon’s murder up to his beady little eyeballs. there is a lot more to this case that we don’t know about, as well as some others who were involved in this as well. there is the IN CROWD of those who called 911 when the gun shot went off. these people know more than what they are willing to tell. Frank Taaffe is one of the main ones and, he doesn’t mind who knows that he is holding something back by the way he said of his interview with the FBI, “I DIDN’T GIVE UP ANYTHING” were his very words. then there is Jon, Jeremy and his old lady. they all know what Fogen did and they all were witness to his criminal behavior and the murder he committed that night.

        They could have stopped Fogen but, they chose not to and now their dear old NW Zero is on trial for murder2 and, they should be facing some charges themselves.

        • racerrodig says:

          I could not agree more. I think at some point a great deal of the why and who else will become known. One of my LE guys just giggles a bit when I talk about conspiracy theory in a way as if he knows enough to confirm it with a giggle.

          Phone & Text records……..

      • Jun says:

        LMAO is it just me, or does looking into Fogen’s eyes, tell you something? I swear he has no pokerface LMAO

  85. colin black says:

    i m o something very damming must have emerged about the previous pope to make him resign.
    If the fact he was a member of the hitler youth movement wasnt enough to bar him from takeing the papesy.
    Something involveinng peadophillia more than likely.

  86. colin black says:

    This will convince themselfs this is a sign from God that the Falklands belong to Argintina……..Going to call himself Francis.

  87. Trained Observer says:

    Gerorge meet Jorge

    • fauxmccoy says:

      i cannot help but wonder if the new pope (a white hispanic at that) will cause anyone who considers that classification to be made up and arbitrary to reconsider their bigoted beliefs.

  88. colin black says:

    Just anouceing new Pope now
    An Argintinian Called Jorge Mario Bergoli

    • Malisha says:

      Family in Argentina for a few generations of Italian extraction? Their way to put someone in there who is “from somewhere else” when he’s really “their own”? Not that I really care. Whoever’s pope, ‘s pope. Infallible and all that. I tend to avoid infallible people. They’re right too much of the time and I find it irritating. If he DID invite me to some of his parties I wouldn’t have the right dress to wear anyway.

  89. Trained Observer says:

    Ooops … new one looks white to me, likely to keep pooping out all the edicts of old — while devout followers gush in admiration about how it’s a new day. Hear ye, hear ye, pedophiles, from now on be more discreet.

  90. colin black says:

    fauxmccoy says:

    March 13, 2013 at 11:42 am

    dear god, man, i do hope you are being paid well somewhere for your brilliance in phiolosphy

    If you are refering to me thanks but your far to kind.
    As a writter Im a mere hack.
    With my mouth I must admitt I have a silver tounge.
    But doesnt translate to writting..

    As for pay nae ..Im rewarded in the best possable way any human could be.
    With the love an respect of my Partner a good an kind Woman who loves an respects me as I do her.
    An Ive also had the love of many animals over my life .
    Cats an Dogs mainly.
    But I love animals even insects excepting midges an mosqiutos
    Birds also amaze an facinate me..

    Im not a missonthrapist but I can count the number of true freinds on one hand.
    An none of my blood Family is on there infact Ive had no contact with my family by choice for decades..

    PS A new Popes just Poped ub hope they picked a Black one.
    What a message to an ex alter boy that will send.
    fingers crossed.
    Mind you it was white smoke they burned when he was annonted pls pls pls let him be from Africa.

  91. ladystclaire says:

    @Tzar, if you are on here today, go to the site doth protest to much, and they have a real good photo of Fogen sitting in court crying. I thought it was on the Benjamin “Justice 4 Trayvon” Crump site but, I went to both sites after I posted the reply to your question last night. he is crying in that photo as plain as day so, go check it out. the same goes for the one in video #5 at the 02/05/13 hearing as well.

    • Tzar says:

      Do you mean this pic?

      • Trained Observer says:

        Does this reflect Fogen doing a demo of the night his eyes were filled with copious quantities of blood?

        • racerrodig says:

          Isn’t that picture the result of his frustration after trying to do this and failing at this simple task

          Or maybe he’s thinking “…….where’s my phone, the Judge is acting real suspicious”

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Tzar, that’s the one and, to me it looks like he is crying for sure. also i the #5 video by Trent at the hearing when his motion to continue was denied, his baby sitter or what ever she is, looked over at him with this oh so sad look on her face, moved over in front of him so the cameras wouldn’t catch it all but, you can see him wiping his eyes with his jacket sleeve. other people have seen it and, they have come to the same conclusion, that Fogen was crying.

        • Tzar says:

          I can’t say it is for sure since I can’t see his face
          but let him be crystal clear that he has not shed any tears compared to those of Trayvon and his family

          When Tracy Martin greeted the police that morning, a plainclothes detective asked him to describe his son. “He asked me what he last had on. He asked me if I had any recent pictures,” Martin said.

          “I showed him a recent picture in the camera and he shook his head and said, ‘OK, let me go to my car and get something.'” The detective returned with a folder.

          It was drizzling, and he asked Martin if they could go inside. When they were seated he pulled out a photo. It was Trayvon, dead at the scene – his eyes rolled back, a tear on his cheek, saliva coming from his mouth. “From that point, our nightmare,” Martin said.

      • kllypyn says:

        Crying huh? He didn’t care about Trayvon crying before he killed him. He will be crying a lot in his prison cell.

      • cielo62 says:

        Boo hoo. Reality is sinking in. Not a nice feeling,huh?

        Sent from my iPod

      • Rachael says:

        @ladystclaire, I don’t know that he is crying, but I sure would have rather seen him shed a tear or two rather than see that disgusting smirk he had on his face on Hannity (especially where he said he said punk – above) and say he had no remorse.

        It is just too little too late now for me. I feel like he is only crying because he got caught, not because he took the life of another human being, with malice and no remorse.

        His tears are not for Trayvon or his family (just look at the disgusting comments his “team” not only allows but instigates and cheers on about them). His tears are only for himself.


      • ladystclaire says:

        That was so sad for Tracy to find out about the murder/death of his son. how in the hell can some people support somebody who kills a kid and then lie about it being self defense, especially since there is a ton of evidence that says otherwise. there is a lot of heartless people in this country. a country where everyone is suppose to have equal rights and protection under the laws of this country.

        I don’t know what would cause some people to do the things, that they are doing in this case. I don’t care if Trayvon was as black as seven mid nights, he was still a human being as well as a child of GOD. this fool Fogen (may his name be forgotten) will for ever live in fear and he should!

      • Malisha says:

        TOO MUCH BRILL CREAM: A little DAB will do-ya!

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Rachael, I so agree with you and, yes his tears are for himself because a real investigation was done in this case and, proved him to be a liar. I hope he never knows a peaceful day for the rest of his miserable life, whether he is in or out of prison. as for those who are supporting and backing him, they too have a day of reckoning and, it’s not going to be too pretty either.


        • Xena says:

          Well, let’s see.
          1. GZ wanted a low bail. ShelLIE lied, and the court ordered a $150,000 bond. Then his bond was revoked for sitting in court like a potted palm. When the court subsequently granted a second bond, it was a million dollars.

          2. His defense fund almost exhausted, GZ went on Hannity’s program and ended up giving the State a “gold mine.”

          3. GZ wanted conditions of his bond altered to remove the GPS ankle bracelet and allow him to travel anywhere in Florida. DENIED.

          4. GZ wanted Trayvon’s and DeeDee’s social media, and Facebook told O’Mara in so many words to go suck a lemon.

          5. GZ tried selling his autograph to raise donations. That didn’t work out well because ….

          6. GZ and ShelLIE are named defendants in a lawsuit seeking $28,000 for unpaid services.

          7. GZ wanted Trayvon’s school records and in the last hearing, the attorney for FDLE said in open court that nothing in those records is admissible in this case.

          8. GZ wanted to argue for his benefit that he is the person whose screams were captured in the 911 tape. BDLR stated in open court that there are two voices on that tape.

          9. GZ wanted to depose Serino, and as a result, Serino hired Baez who gave BDLR info that Serino originally wanted to charge GZ with 2nd degree murder.

          10. GZ wanted addresses for Trayvon’s parents and DeeDee. DENIED.

          GZ apparently does not yet realize that not only what goes around comes around, but it is coming around on him like a freight train at high speed.

          • racerrodig says:

            Don’t yajust hate when all those facts get in the way…..must really suck to be FogenPhoole about now.

            III=> Tick – Tock <=III

          • Xena says:


            Don’t yajust hate when all those facts get in the way…..must really suck to be FogenPhoole about now.

            Oh yes. Must also suck to be O’Mara and West who take advice from Zidiots that has resulted in “DENIED.”

          • racerrodig says:

            The Outhouse stopped and pulled all Fogen open discussion comments this afternoon.

            Trouble a brewin’

          • Xena says:


            The Outhouse stopped and pulled all Fogen open discussion comments this afternoon.

            Sundance considered that after BDLR stated in open court about that website exposing (doxing) Witness 9. Sundance is not stupid. The feds will hold him responsible for all comments posted by others that violate cyber-law, and that includes those comments that constitute witness intimidation.

        • racerrodig says:

          I can pretty much guarantee that Fogen’s not thinking “….man, for middle age, Judge Nelson is HOT…..”

          No, he’s thinking “I hope the camera doesn’t catch me crying… would that look when those pesky members of Team Trayvon get hold of that…..then my Zidiot Nation will loose all faith”

  92. Malisha says:

    It occurs to me that the prosecution has a really audible copy of ALL the 911 tapes and that is the source of BDLR’s unflappable confidence. The conversations that can be made out on those tapes when background noises are removed will reveal that Fogen is not only interrogating Trayvon, but that he is threatening him. My money is on, “You’re gonna tell me or you’re gonna die tonight, motherfucker.” Just sayin…

    • willisnewton says:

      I doubt that. Whatever the digital sample rate these calls were recorded at, it doesn’t seem likely that the city of sanford had the motivation or technical savvy to downgrade the quality before posting them on the city’s website. I’d guess that whatever file type was used is what was released, or that the functional difference is negligible.

      BDLR unflappable confidence is a sign that he is doing his job, whether he has actual confidence or not.

      Having said that, I think he has a strong body of evidence that he can and will use to get a jury to convict GZ of manslaughter in the least, and probably the full M2 charge.

      • aussie says:

        But a lot of the background screaming is hard to hear, because it is several times interrupted when they cut out the sections where the caller is giving their details. With those left it, there would be better continuity on the background. Also some of the foreground (the caller) could be digitally removed.

        ” Unflappable confidence” I think was displayed when BDLR mentioned in one court hearing that there are TWO voices on the tape.

    • SearchingMind says:

      Willisnewton, BDLR better have something to beyond reasonable doubt exclude GZ as the person howling and yelling for help on that 911-tape. If not, in which case you are right, there definitely will be huge problem getting GZ convicted – unless O’Mara is really a dunce. I do not think any jury will convict if there is doubt as to who was screaming for help that night. If prosecutors are simply going to rely on Trayvon’s parents to rule GZ out, that may not be good enough. I wearily shear Malisha’s views. I shall also not forget what Angela Corey said: “there is a lot the public does not know, yet”. The suspense keeps building up.

      • whonoze says:

        “BDLR better have something to beyond reasonable doubt exclude GZ as the person howling…”

        He has the recording of GZ’s voice exemplars yelling “Help me!” “Hah, hah!” etc. which sound nothing like the screams on the 911 call.

      • Malisha says:

        I don’t believe there is any problem, or can be any problem, convicting Fogen if the prosecution WANTS to go to trial. If, however, they want to keep certain evidence out of the public view (to protect WHOMEVER they want to protect — we cannot even know that), they’ll do a plea deal. I don’t think it matters who is yowling on the tapes, either. If I decided to kill somebody I wanted to blame the death on, I’d scream bloody murder while I blew him away — I ain’t as dumb as I look. But what I think will be proven is that Fogen was threatening and interrogating Trayvon in that verbal encounter. I ALWAYS heard “no way no wayyyy” about a minute before the death shot on the 911 fearshriek-gunshot-silence tape.

        Help me out. Didn’t the evidence show that there were six (6) bullets still remaining in Fogen’s gun when it was recovered by the police that night?

        Has O’Mara deposed Tim Smith?
        Has O’Mara deposed Raimondo?

        • onlyiamunitron says:

          “Help me out. Didn’t the evidence show that there were six (6) bullets still remaining in Fogen’s gun when it was recovered by the police that night?”

          There were 7 bullets remaining in the gun, which had 8 in it before being fired the one time.

          When it was fired, one of the 7 in the magazine got removed from the magazine and loaded into the chamber right after the empty shell was ejected. This is all done automatically by the “kick-back” of the fired bullet.

          So when the police took custody of it there 6 bullets in the magazine, but there was also one in the chamber, for a total of 7 out of the absolute maximum possible of 8, with 8 only being possible if it has not been fired since having been loaded.


        • onlyiamunitron says:

          “Help me out. Didn’t the evidence show that there were six (6) bullets still remaining in Fogen’s gun when it was recovered by the police that night?”

          Perhaps my previous post should have included that the FDLE laboratory report of March 8, 2012 lists as agency exhibit DMS-11 the shell which was ejected when Zimmerman fired, as exhibit ME-4 the various pieces of the bullet itself, and, as exhibit TS-1

          “One 9mm Luger caliber Kel-Tec model PF-9 semiautomatic pistol,serial number RJY08, one 9mm Luger caliber cartridge, one holster and one magazine containg six 9mm Luger caliber cartidges”

          The cartridge mentioned after the serial number and before the holster is the one that was loaded into the firing chamber of the gun itself automatically when the gun was fired the one time.

          Removing the magazine would have left that bullet in the gun.


      • Jun says:

        I’m sure they have enhanced the tapes

        The recordings are not that bad

        We do not know because it is work product

        On top we have this evidence

        1) It does not sound like Fogen’s voice. It actually sounds like a kid.

        2) w18, w1, Mary & Selma, have all remarked that it sounded like a kid was in trouble and yelling for help or making squealing strange noises

        3) The rest of the witnesses, with the exception of w6 and w11, have remarked that they heard yells for help which were ended with the gunshot. This tells me the yells for help were in desperation of about to being killed by a stranger with a gun, which was what was happening to Trayvon. There was not anything Trayvon was doing that was life threatening. Only one person could conclusively threaten someone’s life that night and that is Fogen.

        4) There’s no dna whatsoever on Trayvon’s hands, sleeves, or cuffs, so there is no way he is responsible for any of the minor injuries on Fogen or attacked Fogen in any way, even in self defense.

        5) Fogen ran after Trayvon starting from by the clubhouse and ended up south of the T point dog walk area, which is over 500 feet, which was where Trayvon was running toward and around. W2 confirms the chase. W2 is more believable than Fogen because her testimony matches the evidence and she has no connection to either the victim or the defendant. Obviously by Trayvon running away from the defendant, it shows he was scared. I doubt within the span of 7 minutes those feelings would change

        6) Sybrina identifies the screams to be that of Trayvon Martin. I feel she is more truthful and credible because she does not sound like she is trying to sell you like Junior and Pops does.

        7) Fogen when he first heard the tape, said it does not sound like him

        8) Only w8 claimed Trayvon yelled “get off” and in fact, it is heard on the 911 tape. The screaming matches Trayvon being the person in trouble and the evidence. The screaming does not match Fogen’s story at all (his three million versions)

        9) Fogen even admitted that Trayvon was yelling for help. Admission by a party opponent rule and there is nothing to finish there.

        10) w18 saw it from the confrontation onward and places Fogen as the aggressor and even noted there was no need to kill the kid.

        11) I think w6 will either admit he does not know what he saw or he will admit that he was threatened by the defendant because his story changed from his 911 call forward. W6 only claimed a wrestling match which was ended with a gunshot. He then later changed his testimony 4 times.

        12) Fogen is not credible.

        13) The GPS will prove that Fogen is a liar.

        14) I think they also have Fogen’s GPS

        • racerrodig says:

          So, what you’re detailing is what I’ve been saying in that it must really, really suck to be FogenPhoole about now ??

          Phone Records……Text Messages……..Conviction

          Titanic…….Iceberg……Sinking ship…..

      • Jun says:

        Not only that Racer

        I also theorize that as soon as the defense, in it’s opening statements claims self defense as their affirmative defense, it opens the door to his lies regarding his structuring and the hiding of his money and passport, because the defense is telling the jury to presume him innocent and that Fogenhats is credible, therefore the state can enter that in as soon as the opening statement, to show that he can manipulate, lie and scheme and he can be a person that is less than credible

        I have listened numerous times to the scream 911 tape and I can say that I have never felt it was Fogenhats

        There is a distinguishable squeal and yelp in pain where you hear a “ah” as if in pain and it sounds like a kid. The “get off” also sounds like a kid. The helps also sound like a “kid”.

        During trial, the redacted part will be left in for the jury and judge to hear and there is stuff there we dont know as the public

        Judge objectively for yourself

        To me it does not sound like Fogenhats and sounds like a kid screaming for help and pleading, and squealing in pain

        • racerrodig says:

          Not for one second did I ever think it was FogenPhoole yelling. What he says he yelled and what is yelled are different and the fact that it is high pitched sends his lie down the toilet.

          Only a die hard racist will buy he screamed to the instant he pulled the trigger. Then where are the comments on the 911 calls which were still going on where he says “…ya got me…or ya got it…”

          Anyone who buys that crap has an IQ of about room temperature.

      • Malisha says:

        There is a lot the public does not know YET and probably a lot the public will never know. That is what bothers me about the case, SECOND only to the fact that Fogen killed Trayvon Martin, which is what bothers me MOST about the case.

        • cielo62 says:

          Malisha- consider though, that due to Florida’s Sunshine Laws, we know a tremendous deal more than we would be able to find out in any other state. See? You’ve gotten spoiled and want to know it all!

          Sent from my iPod

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            That’s one of the troubles… We know so much more than will probably ever be used in the actual trial. I think that what we want to know more for is, to enable us to confirm or disprove some of the many theories the evidence has allowed us to build.

      • Malisha says:

        About “knowing it all”: When the State misfunctions in such a way as to receive evidence of an intent by one citizen to interfere with the freedom of another citizen (the NEN call), and within minutes, the state receives evidence that the “other” citizen is dead and the “one” citizen says, “I shot him” (the victim’s body and the defendant’s statements) and they STILL do not see probable cause to charge the “one” citizen with a crime, well Hell YEAH I want to know everything. I want to know everything that the state did, everything that the defendant did, everything that happened, every single bit of it. I think that is necessary in a case where there have been gross lies and the strong appearance of official corruption.

        • cielo62 says:

          Malisha- I’m actually agreeing with you. But I don’t think we’ll ever get everything, even with the generous Sunshine Laws. There will be some amount of cover up that will be successful. We most likely not get Lee or Wolfinger, but we’ll nail GZ. Lee gets no pension so he’s out years of compensation. Wolfie appears to be the only one that will escape unscathed. And that sticks in the craw but what can be done?

          Sent from my iPod

    • kllypyn says:

      That would explain the intense nature of his screams. No one screams like that unless they are afraid for their life.

    • Jun says:

      I was hoping for RZ Junior to have to take the stand because I would find it entertaining if Junior had to answer while being scrutinized for credibility and having a reasonable discussion and debate, rather than his softball and angry yells where he says he is truth or else LOL

      • racerrodig says:

        It would be really cool if someone tweets him on the stand and they “get it on” then the tweets are given to Bernie who hands them to the Judge since they are about her..

      • Jun says:

        LMAO So Junior is also bad mouthing the judge, eh?

        I though he was concentrating on black folks but I guess is an Afro peruvian non racist LMAO

  93. Trained Observer says:

    Was Fogen’s schruck a lease job? Don’t some of the newer models come with internal GPS-style boxes with forensic tracking?

    • ay2z says:

      wondered about that, but maybe the Honda gps doesn’t have street names on it’s maps. Same with his cheapie phone.

    • SearchingMind says:

      Trayvon’s telephone GPS-data would be enough in locating where GZ was. Remember GZ described driving past Trayvon, Trayvon walking past GZ and Trayvon running away from GZ. I suspect that those data might show that Trayvon was walking along- and ran away from THE SAME STREET GZ claimed he went to, to get an address for the dispatcher. If that is the case, GZ would also be on that very same street. This would mean (only in “zimmerworld”) that GZ was walking over to the very same street he was already standing in the middle of, to get an address for the dispatcher.

    • willisnewton says:

      A truck very much like his was sold locally after his arrest. Some speculated that he upgraded his vehicle using the “peter pan” money just as he upgraded his laptops and cell phones and standard of living in general. I doubt that it was leased, and I doubt that there is ANY useful GPS info of any kind that will come to light at trial.

      Trayvon’s phone died before midnight. Some think this may be why there is “no GPS data for the night in question” as MOM has contended.

      No one knows any of this for certain yet.

      • Rachael says:

        That slithering slimy weasel.

      • ay2z says:

        If anyone knows, was the Honda truck normally parked safely in itt’s townhouse aka ‘home’ garage?

        Because it was parked ‘wrong way’ across the street, tail end to One Oak intersection when the re-enactment crew got rolling after picking up the killer.

        Might indicate that someone else parked that car there, like maybe the police, returning the vehicle? Too much to hope for, but you never know.