Jose Baez should not comment about Zimmerman case

Sunday, March 10, 2013

I do not believe it is appropriate for Jose Baez to comment publicly on the Zimmerman case for Channel 6 or any other form of media.

Since Baez represents Chris Serino, who was in charge of the investigation of Trayvon Martin’s death, he has a duty to vigorously represent Serino’s best interests at all times, even after he no longer actively represents him.

Baez also has a duty to maintain client confidentiality which precludes him from sharing inside information that he obtained from Serino.

I do not see any way that Baez can honestly and reasonable comply with his duties to his client while commenting as an independent expert regarding the investigation and the defendant’s likely guilt or innocence.

There will be times when his duties to his client prevent him from commenting honestly and independently about certain aspects of the case and he will have to cheat one way or the other when he expresses an opinion.

That situation creates a conflict of interest that violates the rules of professional responsibility.

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350 Responses to Jose Baez should not comment about Zimmerman case

  1. Off topic…….We talk of west and mom being disgusting?

    jodie airyass’s fat boy lawyers specialty is defending sex crimes…..and claims a 100% success rate……..

    His website

    How cheap will one sell their soul for?

    Last one I saw on eBay was sold for 7 bucks……

  2. Bill Taylor says:

    with all due respect i think i am entitled to my own opinion….and your claim i insinuated something that isnt true i only said i had read his posts elsewhere and the is FACT and yes just like here some of them DO defend fogen in ways that couldnt be accurate.

    my post is FACT the last 45 seconds are on tape and many people were straining their ears listening, NOBODY heard any sounds of fighting, nobody heard any struggle, just the clear unmuffled pleading for a life in sheer terror…….why on earth would martin be crying out in sheer terror while he was finishing off his brutal beating with the smothering coup de gras???????

    how could his voice be so clear strong and unwavering in the minute of such incredible physical exertion, of pounding on this guy for a full minute?????

    my post was accurate and TY for quoting it showing, we differ only on the intent of the other poster and again i am entitled to my own opinion on that.

  3. blushedbrown says:

    @Bill Taylor

    >>>YOU are wrong in any claim that Martin fought fogen, and your posts indeed are defenses of fogen, have been ever since i saw you post elsewhere….the “act” you are putting on has worn very thin… “witnesses” said they saw 2 men on the ground struggling, in fact there are witnesses to the last minute that heard NO STRUGGLE, NO sounds of any fighting.

    Mr. Bill Taylor

    While you may disagree with Whonoze, he is not REPEAT not a GZ supporter in any shape or form. He has spent countless hours researching data and making videos that show conclusively that GZ was not where he said he was at the clubhouse. I don’t know how long you have been posting here, but he has been posting for the past year on the murder case of Trayvon Martin.

    I don’t know what you are referring to when you say he has posted somewhere else, you are insinuating something that is not true.

    People here may disagree all they want with Whonoze, but do not assume something that is not true of him.


  4. fauxmccoy says:

    just read o’mara’s motion for reconsideration of deposing crump. wow… just wow.

    in essence, this boils down to the fact that o’mara has not yet deposed W8 in spite of repeated requests and urgings to do so by the court.

    ]=====> TICK TOCK <=====[

    somehow, i just do not envision judge nelson going along with such request, but i could be surprised.

  5. @ everyone,

    Professor Leatherman has returned.

  6. ay2z says:

    OS is getting the news stories this week, from the defense website, but they do not provide an in-house link to the motions. Guess it’s cheaper and faster than going to the clerk to pick up the docs themselves.

  7. colin black says:

    First, the woman who rolled her eyes at Dave at Taffee was not JohnW6′s wife. (The two women have the same first name.) And your confusing JohnW6 with JeremyW20. You might want to get the basic facts straight before opining about them

    Sorry I made a mistake about witt 6 eyeballing a couple of people months after the murder.

    How this alters what I opined re them lieing about whats they say an what they heard that night confuses me?

    You say I cant comment as I dont even have the basic facts right.
    An yet you persist in propagateing the MYTH that Trayvon engaged in combat with foggagge that night.

    Theres fight an flight when one engages in fight thats what you do.
    You utilise all your resourses oxegen breath adrenilyn to battle.
    Then theres flight an fright Trayvons teerified screams are evidence tto my ears.
    That he tried FLIGHT not Fight.

    Fighting is stressfull an tireing an you need every breath to try an subdue or beat your opponent.
    You dont Scream unlesss your flight has been stopped .
    Say by a fist holding your two upper garments.

    Trayvon went into flight mode an then FRIGHT an never fight.
    When the dna evidence was issued for public reading.
    It confirmed my instincts that the suspect lied about the attack upon his person by Trayvon.
    To try an justify his use of deadly force.

    No dna on Trayvon no blood saliva or even shed skin cells.
    Victims have been found months after there death an traces of there murderers dna is found.
    The fact none of foggaggges dna was on Trayvons hands or under finger nail scrapeings ,
    Prove i m o to most resonable non agenda driven observers.

    That Trayvon was never physically agresive an never attacked foggage one.
    Even a single punch aimed in a persons face with enough force to.
    Either knock him down straight away.
    Or with enough force to stagger him stumble back 40 odd feet.

    Would dammage the punchers hand an also embed said hand with hundreds of skin cells that slough of our entire bodies daily.
    Hands Entire head scalp face ect slough of an enourmous amount of cells continueously as they are exposed to the elements but our entire bodies exposed or not shed constantly.

    Just the prosess of touching something can cause dna transfer of skin cells.
    Touch dna is used to find thease miniscule transfers by LE crime scene techs on a routine basis.

    Dont hear the defence screaming for more dna tests ect.
    Even a punch before bleeding commenced would leave transfer.
    At first I wished Trayvon had got a few good licks in at this buffoon.
    But soon realised this would only bolster his he attacked me lie..
    So the non evidence that proves the lie to his claim is only one of many inconsistinsies wich will be laid out.
    When he has his trial an explains everything at court.

    How will he explain this deadly beatdown punching head slamming an smothering.
    Wich left him in neither fight or flight mode.

    Natural animal instinct billions of years evolveing.
    But not within the foggagges one brain.
    He had neither but was tottaly imobilised by this attack,
    Lay there like a sack of …. even his memory of how to move ones hands in self defence was gone,.
    As was his memory of the gun we wore everywhere .

    For about a miniute he lay there an let this Suspect have his way with him an rein down head slams smothering punches?sometines yea sometimes cant remember.

    Just his shimmie reflexes seemed capable of helping him.
    Shimmie reflex yea.
    Hands up over face protecting from blows reflex nae.

    Then sudenly his memory of the gun comes flashing back an his nighmare was over.

    An Trayvons Parents an Loved ones had begun because of a callous mans gun.

    So sorry I mistook wit 6 for the one eyeballing F Taffe an Dave but I stand by everything I said re that night .
    Both are lieing an both saw an heard a lot more than they said .

  8. Professor, I hope you and your wife are alright.

    • ay2z says:

      Thanks, Romain,

      Have to wonder what the real intention of deposing Mr. Crump is, besides repeating to the point of Judge Nelson’s patience being eroded on this and Witness8 information and demands.

      The doc package contains Crump’s letter that asks that the state investigate the matter of the meeting that occurred the night Trayvon was killed, in which Crump states that Lee met with Wolfinger and that allegedly members of the Zimmerman family were in attendance. It seems that had Ben Crump not become involved, the defense team might argue that charges would never have been laid against their client.

      Could the real reason they are going after information about Witness8, is to get to Mr. Crump, and in deposing Mr. Crump, a wide latitude could take questions far and wide, beyond Witness 8 and the interview.

      The motion also attacks Mr. Crump for not providing the ABC copy of the recording as it was better quality, and became he did not do that, and gave the state his own original recording that he himself made (and could speak to obviously), the defense calls Ben Crump incompetent to have made that recording he did and he failed to give the state ABC’s professional quality instead.

      Had Crump done that, and tossed his recorder in an old file cabinet or sent it to the recycle depot, the defense would be crying fowl about that

      The defense hospital records issue may only be the tip of what the defense really wants– to discredit Ben Crump.

      Would love to have been a fly on the wall when Mr. Blackwell read that motion!

      • ay2z says:

        Calling Ben Crump incompetent because of the recording is one thing, auggesting the quality of the recording by ABC, with their professional recording equipment, audio staff to use that equipment in the field, and audio technicians and engineers to enhance or make the best version from the original.

        Ben Crump did, according to Mr. Blackwell, also a lawyer who has taken recorded statements over the phone in the course of business, just what lawyers commonly do, put the phone up to the recorder, and in this case, speaker phone.

      • ay2z says:

        And I assume the witness listed as Robert Zimmerman, is the father.

      • towerflower says:

        “Had Crump done that, and tossed his recorder in an old file cabinet or sent it to the recycle depot, the defense would be crying fowl about that.”

        Crump turned over the recorder to the FDLE when he turned over the tape.

      • ay2z says:

        Of course he did, and the defense is complaining that wasn’t good enough, he should have instead, provided them with the ABC copy in the first place, so they state in their new motion.

    • groans says:

      Thanks, Romaine!

      Should be an interesting read … “reconsideration” and “clarification” seem to be recurring defense themes.

      • ay2z says:

        If they have no case, and they already can depose Witness 8 and ask her for her address, ask her about the hospital confusion, they may need to build their defense around the decision not to charge their client, and the reasons that was changed.

        They are trying to go back to square one and get the case tossed, or play it in the public long enough before trial, to suggest that the charges were brought not on the force of any evidence or faulty investigation, but because of political pressure.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        IANAL or even very astute with legal issues, but it seems as if this is more theatrics for the paying supporters. I don’t see how Judge Nelson can respond any differently than in the past, even though W8 has no medical records. Though this may harm her credibility, neither she nor Mr. Crump are on trial.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I agree with you AY2Z.

        Has the deposition with W8 taken place?

        Either the defense will call her as a witness or they will not. Either way, all this smoke and mirrors over whether she was in the hospital or not doesn’t matter as much as all the call timelines, whatever is being held back in Fogen’s phone records, and all the forensics.

      • ay2z says:

        Nope, not that we have heard. Something is holding them back from deposing Witness 8 as per the judge’s suggestion to get what they want, and if they don’t get it, then they could come back to her.

        They do not want to depose her as per Judge Nelson’s suggestion, three times now she’s gone over this with them. Now it will be four.

      • Rachael says:

        I’m not understanding their strategy. Why not just do it? What could be holding them back?

      • groans says:

        It doesn’t sound like W8 has been deposed yet! The motion refers only to “future” deposition and testimony of W8.

        And the defense is still only harping on Crump’s supposed “fact knowledge” about “the circumstances” of his interview of W8 a year ago. It truly is the same-old, same-old. And at this late stage, the defense still remains obsessed with Crump based on nothing new of any significance.

        When the defense raised “new information,” I totally expected a big public blab / dump about what W8 had said in her deposition! I can’t BELIEVE that all they offer is an ABC audio clip that’s on the internet, which someone here linked us to a couple or few days ago. That is just too bizarre.

        It reads, to me, like a very weak, pitiful motion rehashing the hearing about a matter they’ve risen way too many times already.

        > The exhibits sound like the things West offered to (but hadn’t prepared for) the court at the Feb. 22 hearing. The motion even says that “the Court didn’t indicate it was needed,” or something to that effect. Augghhhh … shouldn’t that TELL them something about how impertinent it was then, and is now??

        > He argues about the cases the judge relied on. I’m thinking: So you finally started reading some LAW on the issue you obsess about? Why didn’t you have some law to argue at the time of the hearing? Everyone else had researched it! But YOU WERE UNPREPARED, and now want to re-argue the matter because you didn’t like the results you got from trying to “wing” it? And, oddly, doesn’t he say that Hickman is the “wrong standard,” and then turn around and rely on it later?

        > I think he mingles and confuses the attorney-client privilege and the work product rule and jumbles up their distinctions and standards. (I’ll have to re-read.)

        > He also mingles and confuses “statements” and “testimony” early on in the motion, which does not exactly enhance his argument or its logic.

        > In paragraph 8, he states as a fact that W8 “lied” about the hospital thing – while at the same time lying about what Mr. Guy told him. (AS IF, Mr. Guy told the defense that W8 “misrepresented” the hospital thing – and IIRC, Mr. Guy said in court at the time that the defense mischaracterized his statements to the defense.)

        > The only “new evidence” (a couple/few phrases in the ABC audio) does not strike me as “substantive conversation” at all. Maybe it’s just me.

        > Their “relevance” argument is silly, IMO.

        > And they’re seeking lots of “information” from Crump that I would just say: That’s none of your business!

        I don’t see anything in this motion that comes close to justifying “reconsideration” or “clarification.” It’s the same old BS, and I have no doubt that the judge is – like all of us – getting very tired of hearing it again and again.

        And they’re still not specific about what they expect to uncover through Crump that has any relevance to the charge of Murder 2 or to a defense of self-defense.

        So that’s my initial, quick-and-dirty take on it, FWIW. 😐

      • @ay2z

        I am wondering what is going on that the defense won’t depose DeeDee. What’s up with that?

        • Xena says:


          I am wondering what is going on that the defense won’t depose DeeDee. What’s up with that?

          They want to hold attorney Crump accountable for DeeDee’s statements. Then when they depose her, they can play both ends against the middle. I hope that Judge Nelson realizes that the defenses’ motions concerning attorney Crump is not about GZ’s case and has nothing with proving he killed Trayvon in self-defense. Rather, they are geared to denigrate and attempt to humiliate a Black attorney pursuant to the agenda of bigoted racists.

      • ay2z says:

        they alluded to the reason in the Feb 5 pre-treal hearing, they want some sort of surrounding information. Seems they want something beyond the scope of what will be her testimony at trial they can investigate

        A nervous young woman being challenged and interrogated in deposition, and they want to take full advantage of what she might say or imply.

  9. Jun says:

    See GSP

    Bleeding everywhere and onto himself, and continued bleeding out of his nose, and it was not broken

    Now Fogen… hmmm

    • Tzar says:

      thanks, it’s a start

      • Xena says:

        Yes, it is. IMO, their sentences were too light, however they will have to register as sex offenders for the rest of their lives.

      • Rachael says:

        I did hear on the news that they will have to register, but for how long will have to be determined.

      • towerflower says:

        Rachael, Xena answered it, they will have to register for life as sex offenders.

        • Xena says:

          If those guys ever marry, I can only imagine that child protective services will be at the hospital upon delivery of any child because of them being registered sex offenders. Their employment opportunities will be limited also, and they had best be able to purchase a house because landlords may not rent to them.

          Yep. They messed up their lives BIG TIME.

      • towerflower says:

        I wonder about the parents of some of these boys. How they feel now. Like in the one video in which a group are talking about it and one says how would you feel in 10 years if it was your daughter and one boy said he still wouldn’t care. I wonder if the mother of that boy who said that, saw the video and wonders now if she raised him right.

        The attitudes of the youth within that town is seriously flawed. With many lacking even the basics of a moral compass.

      • Rachael says:

        Sorry towerflower. Wasn’t trying to step on toes. I just was watching a news program that asked this morning if they would have to register as lifetime and they said possibly but that would have to be determined; that just because they would have to register, it might not have to be for a life time. Not saying Xena is wrong, not saying news report was right, not saying I agreed or disagreed, was just reporting something I saw – not saying it was so or not, just what I saw.

        Please forgive me.

      • Rachael says:

        Oh, and I promise in the future, if Xena answers a question, I will make sure to never add my own response.

      • Malisha says:

        Strangely, their having raped someone when they were teen-agers is probably not going to be held against them when they’re married with children. I’ll bet when they get into their first several divorces, they’ll make successful bids for custody and their “juvenile records” will not be used against them and if their wives claim they were abusive, the wives will be blamed for being “vindictive.” Just sayin…I’ve seen it all before. The more unbelievable it is the more some fool judge (or abuser judge) will be there to do it. And most of it in secret proceedings in the Juvenile Court where the wife can’t even make a fuss if she DOES get some attention from the media. There’s a case in Virginia recently — a guy is a “person of interest” in two murders and he gets unsupervised visitation with an infant and in 1-1/2 hours of the first unsupervised visit, the baby is dead of “unknown cause.” Coroner has still not released a report after 6 months.

        Abusers are protected in courts all over the country. Only when the media jump in is there any control over the cover-ups.

        • cielo62 says:

          Malisha- those records get sealed, like GZs records from Virginia. We don’t get access to them. I’m wondering if that sex offender registration is for life or just like the juvi records, gets sealed at 21. No matter; the years to get scholarships will be over by 21.

          Sent from my iPod

    • cielo62 says:


      Sent from my iPod

      • Malisha says:

        Cielo’s comment came after a different post; somehow the order of the comments got all upgefukt and I am sure it wasn’t supposed to follow the cynical comment I posted. Sorry. 🙄

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      I have no idea why rapists crying doesn’t evoke any sympathetic reaction in me. Just disgust and loathing. I guess if they considered how their victim might feel at some point in time, they might not have needed to cry in court. I don’t know but I’d sure like to know where some people get the idea that the only important thing in the world is their own ideas and feelings. I’ve never found a reason to feel that way ever, so it’s actually alien to me. Not that I don’t understand people falling victim to an appealing fantasy. I rather hope they’d reference it against reality before they act.

      • Rachael says:

        I have no idea why you think rapists crying would or should evoke any sympathetic reaction in you or anyone.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Because the rapist seem to think that crying in court, after being found guilty is a response that the public should react favorably to.
          How they arrive at such a conclusion mystifies me.
          To me it appears that they are only have sorrow because they are being punished, and not sorrow for what they did. That makes their display more disgusting than sympathetic. Well, being branded for life as pedophiles, I think, is going to make them very sorry in the long run.

      • towerflower says:

        As I read some of the stories in that case, I couldn’t believe the lack of feeling toward the girl. One story I read was about one boy who was at the party and who wasn’t drinking but prevented a friend from driving home because he knew he was drunk, he had tricked him into giving him his keys. He knew that wasn’t right, but he also walked into the assault while it was underway and didn’t say a word about it, he just turned and walked away.

        The coach even gave other boys a free pass and wouldn’t bench them because they didn’t believe they had done anything wrong in photographing the events and resending them.

        But I believe their cry in court wasn’t for the victim but for once in their life seeing reality set in on being held accountable for their actions. It was all about them and not once considering the victim.

        When I got my son a cell phone for the first time, I sat him down and explained the trouble one can get into with sexting. I also made him what the news reports of the case and explained the downfalls of underage drinking and never taking advantage of someone who had too much to drink.

      • Xena says:

        @Lonnie Starr. Those guys never thought it would come to this. They took photos, texted each other, boasted, denigrated and demeaned the victim in social media. They would not stop inflicting the humiliation. It’s because of their nature to humiliate that the victim was able to put evidence together. Still, the old boys’ network was slow to do anything until Anonymous got involved.

        I have no pity for the rapists.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Hmmm… I suspected as much, no wonder their little tears in court didn’t evoke any sympathetic responses. They were actually crying for themselves, because they’d gotten caught and were being punished, not because of what they had done to their victim.
          The only thing I can think of to say to them now is “How could you?”

          • Xena says:

            @Lonnie Starr

            They were actually crying for themselves, because they’d gotten caught and were being punished, not because of what they had done to their victim.

            Exactly. According to one report, they actually played the passive-aggressive role by saying they didn’t know what they did was wrong. Sound familiar, like GZ hiding money?

      • Two sides to a story says:

        At least the rapists are showing some remorse. I’d be more worried if they didn’t.

        • PiranhaMom says:

          @ Two sides –

          They’re crying about what they’ve done to their future: no free college football scholarships, no future adulation, really restricted future job opportunities, loss of immediate future freedom (people will cry even if they are just grounded for a week), anger and disappointment from their extended families, disrespect and disgust from “their” public.

          There is no recognition of the permanent (or, at best, long-term) damage to the future of THE VICTIM. Will she get therapy? Who pays?

          It is easy for high school jocks (and jockettes) to be immersed in narcissism.

          It’s all about “ME!”

          There needs to be training for the COACHES to instill empathy, “The Golden Rule” and “don’t consider yourself a hero.”

          Classes for the parents of athletes would help, too.

          High school athletes are lionized – and if they were in kid sports (Little League, Pop Warner, etc.) they may have been on a career track for sports for a dozen years.

          To have this flushed down the drain by an evening’s stupid, unthinking cruelty egged on by your cohorts is a bitter pill.

          Don’t forget – that was a multi-hour degradation of the victim. There was plenty of time to think:”I’m doing something wrong here.”

          Instead, they were showing off for friends.

          Did any of these kids ever come up with:
          “I’ll get a job, I’ll pay for therapy for the victim, tell me what I can do to show I recognize the wrong I’ve done, and tell me what I should do to try to make it right?”

          Naaah …

          It’s “You mean I have to pay the price for my crime? But, I’m so SPECIAL! Why should I have to pay the price? I am SPECIAL and the victim is NOTHING!”

      • Trained Observer says:

        Outcome of this Ohio rape case should be a signal to coaches everywhere … make sure your boys know how to conduct themselves, and understand that when common decency goes by the wayside, everyone pays, especially the perps. No pity for these boys. And I’d like to see the coach relieved of his coaching responsibilities. Let him teach social studies.

      • Rachael says:

        “And I’d like to see the coach relieved of his coaching responsibilities. Let him teach social studies.”

        I agree he CERTAINLY should be relieved of his coaching duties and I wouldn’t even want him as a teacher of anything in my kids’ school.

        Teachers and coaches are supposed to be role models.

      • towerflower says:

        Rachael, I agree. That coach should’ve been relieved following his lack of action. Defending the players actions by saying that they didn’t know they did something wrong is well…..wrong. A coach is someone who should expect the best of his players both on and off his field of play and should hold them accountable for their actions when off the field. There should have been no free passes for lack of knowing what was right and what was wrong legally. Morally they all should have known that their actions were wrong.

        I have always thought something was wrong with our society when we place sports players up on pedestals. It is after all only a game. A college or school should be known for their achievements in the graduate they put out in the world and not by the placement in standings of their sports team.

      • Malisha says:

        A guy in Harford County, Maryland raped his step-daughter at age 11 and beat her up to warn her not to tell. She did tell anyway and a female police officer investigated for real, and nailed the guy. The guy got sentenced to THERAPY for six months and he had to pay for the step-daughter’s therapy. So he went to three sessions with a licensed clinical social worker and then she wrote a letter to the court saying his therapy was over because “he cried during therapy.” She felt that therefore he was cured. So the judge let him off and then he made a motion to the court for an order that he no longer had to pay for therapy for the step-daughter. He pointed out that HIS therapy was successful in only three sessions and the step-daughter had already had ELEVEN (11) so she should be done too. So the judge let him off. He said if the step-daughter wanted to keep going to therapy her mother could pay. Then the guy made a motion for unsupervised visitation with his younger daughter, from the same mother (older daughter was from a former husband) and the judge made a finding that he could have unsupervised visitation because obviously, if the therapist said he was “cured” of pedophilia, he wasn’t a danger to the younger daughter. I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP.

        • cielo62 says:

          Malisha- obviously it doesn’t take any brains to be judge. I read that, too, and could just spit. I’d like to give that girl a gun, a few lessons and tell her to never let that bastard near her again.

          Sent from my iPod

  10. colin black says:

    whonoze says:

    March 17, 2013 at 3:46 pm

    Trayvon wasn’t THAT timid. He let GZ catch up to him, and demanding to know why he was being followed. He did not bow to Zimmerman’s will, which led to the confrontation becoming physical. When things got physical he obviously did something to try to fight back or get away, resulting in Zimmerman’s minor injuries.

    I certainly don’t believe TM smashed GZ’s head into the concrete, but he may have been on top of Zimmerman early in the struggle (the “wrestling” described by witnesses), especially if, as likely IMHO, the two were rolling over each other. At some point GZ did get those two cuts on the back of his head, and I’ve always thought it likely they came from rolling over the broken utility/sprinkler cover.

    And while Trayvon may have been on top of GZ at some point that doesn’t necessarily mean he was in control of the situation, as GZ still could have had a hold on his clothes or his arm or wrist.

    Since I don’t buy any of the theories positing a conspiracy to capture or kill TM, I have a hard time believing JohnW6′s testimony is totally fabricated. I think the cops convinced him to greatly exaggerate what he saw to fit their desired narrative. But even after his recantations about seeing blows, and knowing who was screaming, he still insists he saw Trayvon on top. I think he may have. He seems to have seen only the earliest part of the struggle, then immediately hustled upstairs to safety with his then-injured-fiance. (I would guess they made their retreat even before W11 connected with 911.) So TM could have been on top momentarily at the beginning, but without having any kind of control (“strattle” position my arse), which John may have seen, but then GZ gained and held the advantage thereafter (why else would Trayvon be screaming in anguish?).

    @In order for us to beleive witness six as acurate we haves to asumme he is being truthfull.
    Likewise his alleged imobilsed Fiancce whom can only hobble hence an wence..

    And one lessonn in life I have leared often at great pesonal cost is never assume anything.
    To do so makes an ass of both you an me.
    And where this pair are concerned Im not buying her or his story.

    Watch State o the Internets vt where he walks along the T an dog walk an just talking not shouting she was there eye balling them.

    She also eyeballed Marinade Dave an F Taffe I think when they strolled along that path.
    An I know theres probably been loads of rubber neckers an fact finder an tourists an all sorts .
    Even people wanting to pay there respects .
    Any time flowers anything left in memoeium the next moring it was gone.
    Whos back yard did he die in?

    Who would object to a memorium if only for a few days?
    Its not as if Prices Diana had died an millions of boceuts were going to drown there town houses.

    Funnny thing is this disrespect they showed this Child in life an death has made him into as Famous as Princess Di .

    She an her boyfreind boyfreinf know damm well what happened to Trayvon.
    She didnt retreat upstairs to the front of the house opposite end to where murder ocoured.

    The truth is in her 911 cal it picks up the screaming an shouting far to clearly for her to be where she insists she was .
    We know she is a nosey …. an even talking voices have her curtain twitching .
    You can bet your bottom dollar she was up an drawn to the shouting screaming like a magmet as was her boy freind.
    An when she is urgeing him to get in its from either outside watching the struggle.
    Or the open patio door watching it.
    An she is behind him watching from the same room.
    The wonky leg stuck upstairs is all bsThey both wittnessed it first hand.
    You can even hear witness 6 say to 11 he warned me or he warned he or something along them lines.
    That foggage had either warned him wit 6 about the shooting .
    Or perhaps foggage said Im going to shoot just before he pulled the trigger.
    Knowing he had an audience its the sort of thing foggagge would shout to torrment his victim.

    Plus he can turn to witt 6 an say I warned him .
    He fucked me up good..
    An then the story develops .
    Not three wise monkeys.

    But three dumb monkees .
    See no eveil
    Hear no Evil
    An speak no EVIL.
    Thats what I think of foggagge witt 6 an wit 11.

    • Xena says:

      @Colin Black ((((((((APPLAUSE))))))))

    • Tzar says:

      what evidence supports that Trayvon caused Fogen’s injuries?
      please someone name something

      • Xena says:

        @Tzar. Here’s one way of looking at it — The State doesn’t care. They charged GZ with 2nd degree murder. If Trayvon causing GZ’s injuries means a hill of beans in the case, the State would not have charged GZ with 2nd degree murder. State prosecutors know self-defense law.

        If not but for the fact that GZ got out of his vehicle to follow Trayvon, the two would not have come into physical contact. Since he did, and along with his verbalization of denigration towards Trayvon, GZ was a threat to him and the aggressor.

        • cielo62 says:

          Xena and Tzar- whonoze is wedded to his idea that SOMEHOW Trayvon stood up for himself. As disillusioning as it is, Trayvon did no such thing. He ran away and continued to try to run. Without training, most people’s response would be to run. That is why people take self defense classes; it’s not an automatic response. Which makes GZs murdering Trayvon even more depraved.

          Sent from my iPod

          • Xena says:

            @cielo62. Trayvon stood up for himself by asking GZ “What are you following me for?” That was it. Trayvon was Aquarius — his first nature would be to communicate.

          • cielo62 says:

            Xena- ok. I can buy that. But whonoze is pushing for a physical response and I say that none happened, based purely on the available evidence.

            Sent from my iPod

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Sure, there are two reasons that people take martial arts training.

            1. Is to learn how to defend themselves.
            2. Is to become confident that they can defend themselves.

            In other words, what good is knowing defense moves, if you don’t have any confidence that they will work, or that you can execute them effectively? Training shows you not just how to do a thing, but allows you to try until you have confidence you need to believe you can successfully do it.

            Trayvon had no training, so he did not know any self defense moves at all. Secondly, since he had never tried any self defense moves, if he knew of any, like say from watching tv. He had no reason to be confident that he could apply any self defense actions effectively. Thus he had no reason to bother, because he couldn’t place any faith in trying.

            As such he was just a timid little helpless kid, frightened witless by a big, powerful, hulking adult stranger.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Yep, all of the actions that led to the confrontation were made by GZ! Without the actions GZ undertook there would have been no confrontation and no firearm available to create any danger at all.

          The law prohibited what GZ was doing and the police asked him to stop doing it. GZ’s only defense is to claim that the police request came too late to prevent the confrontation. Problem is that doesn’t matter because as NW GZ knew not to do what he was doing, and he knew not to carry a weapon while doing it. He should not have had to be told to stop, because he never should have started.

          As far as the claim that Trayvon may have been trying to take GZ’s firearm away, the law says Trayvon would have been within his rights to do so. As far as GZ’s claims that he had to fire his weapon to stop a lethal attack, there is absolutely no evidence at all of any lethal attack! The SP will ask “What lethal attack?” the defense will not have an answer. GZ is toast, Foggenhats will fry!
          Hoodies Up!!!
          |||=> Tick Tock! <-|||

      • Jun says:

        There’s maybe a 1% chance but even then it is being generous

        If you make repeated contact with Fogen’s face with your hands, hard contact strikes and attacks, your hands would show evidence because of dna transfer resulting from touch of Fogen dna (your hand makes repeated contact with the face and head), evidence on attacker’s hands (defensive wounds and scratches and such), splatter of which is dna from blood and epithelial resulting from contact, and blood fluttering and dripping and smearing from being in constant contact

        There was no such evidence ever occurring and Fogen made up a story and fantasy, which is also dreamed up by the Zidiots, that Fogen was at Trayvon’s mercy, which is ridiculous at best

        Honestly speaking though, if Fogen wanted to make his story believable, he should not have lied so much, because if Trayvon was supposed to be a vetted combatant like he claims, they would be at the very least evenly matched, and the fight would be sporadic and not static like Fogen claims

        Fogen should not also have made Trayvon out to be Black Dynamite and then try to convince everyone Black Dynamite was thwarted by a shimmy of all things as an experienced and skilled combatant would have maintained mount position over a pathetic shimmy attempt

        and a fight of his claimed magnitude would leave lots of forensic evidence in the form of dna transfer from splatters, smears and drips… and there was no evidence there, therefore, it never occurred… watch any MMA fight and both parties will have each other’s blood all over each other and on the mat and cage and their shorts… Fogen barely had any blood, even his own from his dreamed up broken nose and Trayvon had no evidence of engaging in any combat whatsoever except struggling to survive…

        Their rain wash claims are silly as hell because the Fogenhats blood smear on the bottom of Trayvon’s shirt never washed off, nor did the already dried blood wash off Fogen’s head (imagine so rainy, yet his “wounds” were able to dry

      • Tzar says:

        @Xena I know and assert the state’s position
        I just want someone, anyone to explain to me the evidence that shows that Trayvon caused the killer’s injuries.

        • Xena says:


          I just want someone, anyone to explain to me the evidence that shows that Trayvon caused the killer’s injuries.

          Uhhh — the word of the potted palm???

      • whonoze says:

        So, Tzar, my friend (and I mean that sincerely), if you had been in Trayvon’s shoes when you were 17, what would you have done?

        • Tzar says:

          I have no idea (and I mean that sincerely), the same question can be asked about what I would have done if I was the killer sitting in my car and observing someone I perceived as a threat, my answer to that is obviously not what the killer did however.

          However, that is not really my question though.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        There is none. Oh and those insets on the ground? Trent Sawyer investigated them during his trip to RATL, he says they’re made of soft flimsy plastic and cannot be the source of any injuries at all. Which, of course, makes sense, since children will be running, jumping and falling in this area, you wouldn’t want anything in the grass that would cause them injuries.

        So, all they have is GZ’s worthless word for it.

    • looolooo says:

      @ Colin B. WOW!

    • type1juve says:

      @Colin Black… Good post as always! There’s no way those witnesses are telling the truth about what happened. I wish they would just come clean and tell what really happened. They know something that ties them to this murder, there’s no other reason for them to continue to lie.

      • whonoze says:

        I don’t think they’re telling the whole truth either, type1, but they have other reasons to lie: not wanting to ‘get involved,’ wanting to protect the HOA from liability in GZ’s crime, maybe plain old racism… None of which ties them to the murder itself, but to aiding the SPD in covering it up.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Their lies have made them accessories after the fact, they had better come clean before either fogen is convicted or before he turns them in for a lighter sentence.

    • whonoze says:

      First, the woman who rolled her eyes at Dave at Taffee was not JohnW6’s wife. (The two women have the same first name.) And your confusing JohnW6 with JeremyW20. You might want to get the basic facts straight before opining about them.

      Second, you guys are doing a great job of refuting things I didn’t say. John W6 is full of shit in general, and I’ve never said otherwise. I’ve never said that Trayvon hit GZ in the face repeatedly (since the evidence indicates that GZ got exactly one not-very-strong pop on his nose, and no more.)

      Third, thank you Xena for noting that how Zimmerman got his little owwies is not relevant to the case. Nothing I have said exculpates GZ in any way.

      Yes, Cielo, I believe Trayvon tried to stand up for himself, just like any normal 17 year old male would. Especially a former football player. What do you think football player do during practice? Hold hands and sing cumbayah? What kinds of attitudes do you think football coaches drum into their teams? Turn the other cheek?

      Tzar, it is overstatement to say I believe Trayvon caused GZ;s injuries. I believe those injuries were sustained during the struggle with TM, but as collateral damage so to speak (e.g. rolling over the utility cover). So by entering the struggle, we could say GZ caused his own injuries. If GZ’s nose wound was caused by a blow from Trayvon, that may not have been a targeted punch but a flailing hand or elbow that just happened to land on GZ’s schnozz. The nose wound may also have been caused by the ground during the tussling.

      The witnesses say that the two men were wrestling, there was a STRUGGLE. Trayvon did not just lie there, or curl into the fetal position. He was not going to give up his civil rights without resistance. The fact that he did indeed resist, that he didn’t act like a slave or a second class citizen enraged GZ to the point of murder. An all too familar story…

      • Bill Taylor says:

        YOU are wrong in any claim that Martin fought fogen, and your posts indeed are defenses of fogen, have been ever since i saw you post elsewhere….the “act” you are putting on has worn very thin… “witnesses” said they saw 2 men on the ground struggling, in fact there are witnesses to the last minute that heard NO STRUGGLE, NO sounds of any fighting.

      • Rachael says:

        I happen to agree with you 100% whonose.

      • ay2z says:

        Thanks, it doesn’t matter if Trayvon caued injury with his hands. The word ‘attack’ is a poor choice in the media discussions, as ‘attack’ carries with it somehow, the presumption, that ‘attack’ associates with the aggressor.

        There is no word that easily comes to mind for a defensive response to aggression other than the common use of ‘attack’, seems to me, anyway.

      • cielo62 says:

        @ whonoze~you wrote: Yes, Cielo, I believe Trayvon tried to stand up for himself, just like any normal 17 year old male would. Especially a former football player. What do you think football player do during practice? Hold hands and sing cumbayah? What kinds of attitudes do you think football coaches drum into their teams? Turn the other cheek?”   It doesn’t matter what I THINK. It’s a matter of NO DEFENSIVE WOUNDS ON ANYBODY! GZ had no bruises. Trayvon had no bruises. So WHAT DO YOU THINK TRAYVON DID? Give him the Evil Eye or something? I’ve said it several times; the EVIDENCE does NOT SUPPORT Trayvon having done anything, not even a glancing blow to GZs ugly shnoze.. Rolling around where Trayvon probably WAS cowering would not leave any bruises. But what YOU insist on suggesting is impossible. No wounds, no bruises = No hitting. Simple equation. Until you can SHOW SOMETHING in the recorded evidence that Trayvon either left a mark or a got a mark, I will maintain that he did not even raise his hands, REGARDLESS of having played football. IIRC, playing football is an organized thing and nothing at all like getting assaulted out of the blue.

      • whonoze says:

        I think you miss my main point: Trayvon did not go to his death passively and timidly. Period. No hidden agenda implied. If TM and GZ were engaged in a grab-fight, neither of them would have the defensive wounds associated with fisticuffs. I don’t believe for a second Trayvon threw a series of punches at GZ, even defensively, because, as you say, there would be evidence of that. But if TM wasn’t throwing punches, and did happen to tag GZ’s nose by chance with a single movement of his flailing arms, GZ wouldn’t have had his arms in a defensive position and the only wound would be to the nose itself. As would be the case if the widdle nose owwie was caused by contact with a ground object during the scuffle.

        What irks me about the insistence that Trayvon was timid, passive, went gentle into that good night, is that it implies that GZ’s guilt is somehow lessened if he didn’t, and some amount of blame would transfer back onto Trayvon. Which is utterly wrong. IMHO it plays to the CTH philosophy that there are only two categories of young black men: and any kid who doesn’t fit the mold of Theo Huxtable or Nephew Tom is therefore necessarily a thug. To which I say: BS.

        I don’t think TM “attacked” GZ in any sense of the word. I think he resisted. And I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

        I hope that clarifies my position.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I agree with you Whonoze. I don’t think Trayvon was innocent or passive, but I do think he would have responded in self-defense. How, it’s truly hard to say, except for the screaming since there’s no DNA evidence of him socking Fogen in the face. I do think it’s possible he used the phone in hand to inflict the cuts on the back of Fogen’s noggin, but the phone was never checked for DNA.

      • Rachael says:

        @ whonoze: “I hope that clarifies my position.”

        Sorry you felt the need to clarify. Seems very clear to me and I concur.

        • cielo62 says:

          Rachel- whonoze’s position was not clear to me at all. I still disagree although I am grateful he took the time to explain. Trayvon was too busy screaming in abject terror to be doing any kind of self defense moves. People TRAIN to be able to do self defense. Football is an organized sport with rules. It’s not the same as being assaulted out of the blue. The 40+ seconds of screaming plus the lack if any forensic evidence says to me that, 17 year old male or not, he was shocked, scared and totally unprepared for the shit that GZ was bringing.

          Sent from my iPod

      • Bill Taylor says:

        i must ask those claiming trayvon was “NOT innocent” what precisely is he guilty of please?

        there is not one shred of evidence that Martin ever hit fogen, and it “irks” me to see people just making up things that clearly never happened.

        the intent of those folks is clear to me “plant tiny seeds of doubt” = possibly no conviction beyond a reasonable doubt.

      • gbrbsb says:

        Concur 100%… except it may be the “utility cover” as culprit for the posterior cranial scratches will need to be reconsidered as I believe Trent Sawyer picked one up when making his night-time video at RATL and apparently it’s made of a thin flimsy plastic of insufficient consistency to cause such scratches.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Hahaha… I have to laugh at the way you use football. Does Trayvon’s team play against 28 year old 200 pounders? If they did, I sincerely doubt the coach would even let them take the field. lol
        The threat of lethal injuries would just be too great for the team of teens.

        Of course some teens go out for boxing, some go for wrestling and some go for martial arts training. There are some teens who never get into fights and never have any need to consider self defense at all.
        Trayvon was one of those guys, sedentary passive types. No fisticuffs, no self aggrandizing braggart or bully. Just a happy friendly teenager with no need to fight.

        Football? I’ve played football as a teen with kids my own age then, I don’t remember learning any self defense from the game. Of course, those of us who had to face bullies had to learn to fight. But there were many teens who didn’t face bullies, especially ones who were either big or tall for their age. Bullies like small kids who look weak and act like pushovers. They also want to make sure that the ones they pick on don’t have big strong friends or family.

        There is nothing to indicate that Trayvon had any reason to believe that he could successfully overcome an angry/crazy 204 lb 28 year old man.

      • Bill Taylor says:

        simple common sense = IF any other person had ever been in a fight with Martin, or had martin every hit them, as well known as this case is that person would have stepped forward for their 15 minutes of fame!

        NOBODY has in fact nobody even has any hearsay to report.

  11. ay2z says:

    Evening, no links this time, but just listened to a SanfordWatch video about the money, O’Mara, his client, what his client said to him about a ‘substantial amount’ referring to the 37 dollars that was stopped in transfer.

    Some over at the SW are speculating on the possibility that O’Mara may be investigated for conspiracy to commit perjury. But Judge Lester remarked that the deception was by the client, nothing to do with the lawyer, at the time the shooter was to be re-arrested.

    Is this hype? I don’t know the quality of work of the SW site, haven’t been watching over there.

    • ay2z says:

      Above is on youtube, the publish date is today.

    • Malisha says:

      Let’s remember that Eric Holder is in charge of DOJ. So is there a possibility that the FBI will be investigating O’Mara for conspiracy? Hmmm. Hmmmm. Perhaps his income (remember, he’s primarily a Florida divorce lawyer) puts him in the category of “too big to be investigated.” Or is it simply that DOJ wants this case to recede into the background before it issues a small one-line “no prob” on the 15th page of something somewhere?

  12. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    If there were an immunity hearing before the trial, is the prosecution allowed to use witness statements or have an expert witness take the stand?

    • Malisha says:

      A “SYG” immunity hearing is an evidentiary hearing, at which the defense has a chance to prove 51% likelihood that he acted in self-defense and therefore is immune to prosecution. Therefore, the evidence he enters is subject to confrontation; if he enters evidence that can be controverted by expert witnesses, then certainly experts can take the stand.

      If his defense is only, “I would never do a bad thing because I’m a good decent American Afro-Peruvian,” then the evidence to controvert that would have to be an expert on American Afro-Peruvians! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

      But if his evidence is that he got a broken nose, a head-knock (or 30) and a thuggish unprovoked beat-down-nearly-to-death, then any expert who can say, “no he didn’t” will have a job.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Thanks for that info, Malisha.

  13. Judy75201 says:

    Much better. Chrome does not like those kinds of challenges lol.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Whew that other page does a swirling number on my computer, this is much better.

  14. ay2z says:

    Happy St. Pat’s, all!

    A short. but important leprechaun lesson in dealing terms of the granted wish with the king o’ the wee people

  15. Two sides to a story says:

    This is a bit off-topic, but wow, what astonishing and open racism!

    • Two sides to a story says:

      PS – Happy St. Pat’s!

    • Nef05 says:

      Happy St. Pat’s and Wow, I agree with many of the comments on the article. While I always knew this mindset was out there, I’ve never seen it as overt and blatant as I have in recent years and continuing.

      I’ve read the studies about the different brain functionality between liberals and conservatives. I’m wondering if there is a similarly different brain functionality between people who think like the man in the article and people who don’t. IMO, there probably is.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I would certainly think so. I would think the racist element would have fear and black and white thinking magnified to the X degree.

  16. Mary Davis says:

    @ Lonnie. Thank you for moving us. I am worried though. I don’t want anything to happen to the Professor or Crane. Also I don’t want to see this blog close down.

    • I sent them an email too. I’m a bit worried. Just hope everything is alright.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Me neither, I’ve got a WordPress blog thehistoricalview but I haven’t made it public yet. If this blog closes I’ll activate it and you can find it by going to my google blogger TM GZ blog, just google for it if you haven’t kept the url. Oh wait I can post the e911 kit link again yeah that’ll work because it’s the first article on the blog today. So, if need be we can all get back together.

      • gbrbsb says:

        Thanks for the invite Lonnie. United, (with our differences and idiosyncrasies) we stand, divided we fail.

        • HOODIES UP………

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            @gbrbsb and MMP

            Right makes might is the old way, before technology made decision making by vote practical. Obviously the technology of warfare has rendered warfare impotent as the decision maker it has been for millions of years. Thus militarism is an anachronism. In today’s world dictators will either bend to the task of governing for the betterment of their citizenry or face the growing and meaningful ire of the international community, which values the lives being ruined by executive selfishness, greed and self aggrandizement.

            Leaders unable or unwilling to provide the leadership required of their station, will find themselves driven before the hordes.

          • “When a people fear their government there is tyranny…..When a government fears it’s people there is liberty”

            T. Jefferson

      • Mary Davis says:

        @ Lonnie.
        Thank you.

    • Cercando Luce says:

      I wonder if the reasons for the pro-Z sites dialing back is that they were intimidating witnesses. Perhaps Knox complained that he, as an expert witness, was intimidated by the LLMPapa videos shown here (as well as elsewhere), following the endless tit-for-tat insisted upon by those sites.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        It could also be that Professor may have either taken action or join someone else in support of an action they took. Many things are possible. What GZ says is not possible! |||=> Tick Tock! <-|||

      • groans says:

        Only TEN (10!) DAYS until the final witness list exchange – including experts – is due.

        This is significant in that it frames/outlines – on both sides – the testimony and evidence to be expected at trial.

        (Of course, who knows when we, the public, will be privy to the witness lists. The time gaps in disclosure seem to be ever-widening. And then the public’s access is further dependent upon the media’s willingness to share the actual – as opposed to reports about – disclosed info with the public, which also appears to be diminishing, IMO .. notably, the OS’s willingness to provide direct access to documentation has seemed to wane over time.)

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          They have to pay fees to get the raw dumps, AxiomAmnesia was paying the fees in hopes the donations would come. Apparently they ran out of dough so they had to stop. The media isn’t getting the interest they once got for paying the fees and distributing the docs, so they’ve given up too. All we have left is a hope that some private blogger will obtain and circulate the releases.

  17. cielo62 says:

    Ah, breathing room!

  18. ay2z says:

    already good music on this thread, missed them first time around, thanks!

    • Nef05 says:

      I missed some of them, as well. It’s a good reminder for me to go back every now and then and look at past threads for more than just specific replies to me.

  19. Nef05 says:

    I was very glad to read this link posted by Aussi,

    Click to access defendants-motion-to-stay-proceedings.pdf

    about the NBC suit. Besides the obvious donor bait that this suit was clearly filed for (as well as hope for quick settlement, more jury pool tainting, etc) what legal benefits, specifically does O’Mara hope to gain from this suit? I see the 3rd party witness loophole, which I assume means he can go after Crump (again, and to what purpose, I don’t know), but I’m not familiar with the evidenciary/discovery benefits that I inferred from reading this.

    Also, is there any 3rd party witness, other than Crump, they have been restricted from deposing or restricted with the boundaries of deposition (Re: criminal vs civil), that would give them possible access to more than they should be able to get, to use in fogen’s criminal defense?

    • ay2z says:

      yes, glad to have a copy too. I enjoy well written (ie: clear and readable for non-legal persons) motions, this one gives such a clear picture of the immediate background and puts the report in question, into perspective.

    • SpecialladyT says:

      Not following your comment. Who, why and how can anyone go after Crump?

      • Nef05 says:

        According to the NBC suit, one of the reasons they’re seeking a stay is because the requirement for subpoenas for 3rd party witnesses for a criminal trial require the subpoena duces tecum approved by the court, but the civil litigation subpoenas hold no such requirement.

        So, even though I use Crump as an example, it appears (from the way I read it) that Crump (for example) could be subpoena’d for the civil litigation without court approval. Considering the overlapping issues of the murder trial and the civil litigation, it would seem (in theory, at least) that they could question Crump on the same issues for the civil litigation that the judge has ordered he cannot be questioned on for the criminal trial.

        It’s probably explained more clearly on page 19 and in the 2nd bullet point, under #4, on page 24; in Aussie’s link above, that I copied to this thread. But, I think I got the gist of it. While I wouldn’t say that’s the only reason O’Mara had the suit filed; it would appear that having filed it, it would allow him to make an end run around any depositions that he would normally have to seek through court approval, including Crump.

      • whonoze says:

        Why the defense would go after Crump: They think/hope the prosecution case will crumble if DeeDee is impeached or her credibility significantly damaged, and they want to claim that DeeDee’s statements were manipulated, and in effect scripted, by Mr. Crump in contravention of the actual facts of what she may have heard. This is the subject of the vast majority of posts over on the pro-GZ forum at TalkLeft.

        It remains to be seen how the prosecution will present its case. IMHO, if they do proper work on the forensics, DeeDee’s testimony won’r be determinative. And it remains to be seen how far Judge Nelson will allow the defense to go in presenting or inferring some DeeDee/Crump conspiracy, if that is indeed their intent.

        Given the defense’s public face via the motions they’ve been submitting, it certainly seems that ‘undermine DeeDee and blame Crump’ could be their primary strategy.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Well it seems like the defense side is losing big time and the trial hasn’t even begun. They’ve got NBC playing the same “speak to the public through motions” game that MOM tried to play on the SP before it failed miserably. They’ve lost their MMA witness, his wife or girlfriend is compromised. The Osterman Resource has gone into hiding and Rent-a-Friend is nowhere around. Shelly is still on the ropes from GZ’s credibility crashing catastrophe. Rene Stutzman has presented rumor as fact, meaning that she and her paper is liable for action. Pipitone and Hoax are skating on thin ice, after being beaten with a schoolboy ruler. And the outhouse has had to dial it back.

          It hasn’t been a very good year for silly folk and their kid killer hero..

          • SpecialladyT says:

            Good lord, Lonnie, you summed up everything in a neat little package…You nailed it, friend.. 😀 lol

      • Jun says:

        I think the stay will be granted

        I do not see any reason why not

        I personally feel Omara did that to try and give excuses for a continuance, try and run circles around rules to attack witnesses…

        I do not feel he expects to win the lawsuit because slander suits are incredibly difficult to win and his claims would require Fogen to take the stand, and seeing that NBC is the defendant, they can open the door on character evidence ASAP

        Lastly, Fogen did offer Trayvon’s race without being asked

        The dispatched asked if they were by the clubhouse and then Fogen says yes they are, then says Trayvon has his hands in his waistband and he’s a black male, without being asked for the race, only asked if they are by the clubhouse. Then Fogen adds that there is something wrong with Trayvon. So that point is now moot.

        • Xena says:


          I think the stay will be granted

          I agree. First, BDLR said that the federal investigation is still ongoing. What GZ is trying to do by suing NBC is circumvent the results of a federal investigation. Second, you are correct that GZ certainly offered/verified Trayvon’s race without dispatch asking.

          Third, I didn’t hear NBC’s edited version of the NEN call. The conclusion I reached about GZ being a bigoted racist was based on his co-worker’s complaint; his MySpace page;and the fact that his coward ass ran and hid before his 2005 mug shot hit the media.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          I’ve sat in courts and watched low profile cases, the judge has wide discretion on the matter of sending the case to trial or granting stays. The judge, as a general rule, is not going to grant a stay, where the evidence against the side requesting is very strong and they are not engaged in difficult effort to obtain specific evidence that is critical to the case. In other words, no nebulous plea for time to do nothing in particular, or anything that is not critical, relevant, probative and/or does not go to the heart of the case, is going to be allowed to disturb the schedule. MOM has had over a year to prepare and most of that year he wasted doing nothing. Now he will be asking the court for time to do the very things he should have already done. No good, the Judge won’t listen to such tomfoolery.

      • looolooo says:

        @Lonnie…….we’re not worthy, we’re not worthy. 🙂

  20. Trained Observer says:

    Faux — Have Serino and Baez parted company, unbeknownst to us? Perhaps Baez got an offer from Channel 6 he couldn’t refuse, so he palmed off his client to another lawyer? Just askin’

    • fauxmccoy says:

      interesting idea – i have no clue. i would think that even if baez was merely a former attorney for serino that ethics would preclude him from comment, but we know that baez is not known for ethics.

      • Malisha says:

        You cannot give statements against client interests even AFTER the representation is over. Clear cut violation of atty ethics.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          malisha – that was the assumption with which i was working, but did not know for a fact or bother to look it up. as always, i appreciate a solid clarification.

  21. fauxmccoy says:

    fred – can you check your overflowing email when you get a moment? much appreciated.

    also – must agree completely with the post. baez cannot both represent his client, serino, to the best of his ability while being a paid commentator on legal proceedings. i find this to be despicable.

  22. KA says:

    I was truly shocked. I think he is grandstanding to try to be involved with the GZ case or maybe represent GZ at subsequent trials. If he knows what Serino knows, he does not have close to the same story as everyone else. There was no lab work back by that time and no phone records.

    He has always seemed fishy to me. I thought in FL he had a pretty bad reputation as people were upset at his tactics in the CA trial?? Why would a news organization tie themselves to him. Does he rehabilitate his reputation by supporting GZ?

    Really it is amazing. So the case is “so weak” yet no immunity hearing?If it was “so weak” the defense would be able to get their client on the stand and have an immunity hearing.

  23. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    I was just listening to this great rendition of “Mr. Tambourine Man”
    as I was catching up on all your comments. I thought I would share it with you:

  24. FactsFirst says:

    Hold UP! I thought Baez was saying that ZIMMERMANS’S EVIDENCE of self defense IS WEAK!!!! So now he’s saying the evidence against Zimmerman is weak??? WTF!

    • cielo62 says:

      Facts First- yeah, makes no sense, right? So weak that Serino wanted to charge Second Degree Murder? WTF is correct!

      Sent from my iPod

    • Rachael says:

      IDK, i’m having a very difficult time figuring out what he means. I too thought he meant it was weak in the self-defense area but now I’m totally confused.

  25. Then why did your client want to charge him with 2nd degree murder?

  26. type1juve says:

    I think he will do anything to avoid prison, so I wouldn’t be surprised if he does try something to gain more sympathy and attention. After all, it’s all about him.

  27. Trained Observer says:

    As trial looms and pressure mounts on Fogen, how likely is it that law enforcement (FBI, FDLE, Seminole sheriff’s deps or Sanford cops) are keeping an eye directly on his hideout?

    ( I ask, given that Fogen’s ex-fiancee told investigators that back in their day he threatened to do a number with pills or drive his car into a canal when he wanted to emotionally manipulate her. Also, jailhouse phone tapes indicate a plan was once a foot with the spare passport and a pile of cash put in a box.)

    Does anybody besides me think Fogen might stupidly try to ditch his ankle bracelet and pull off something dramatic?

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Interesting questions, Trained Observer.

      I do think that they are keeping an eye on gz.

    • looneydoone says:

      Trained Observer,
      Cheorge’s slipping out of his ankle monitor wouldn’t surprise me . In fact, neither would his getting away …after all, his GPS “supervisor” (the one who testified at the hearing to modify bond restrictions) failed to notice gz had violated his bond immediately upon release when he left Seminole County and hid-out at the Orlando hotel.
      One doesn’t need a Passport to leave the USA from a general aviation airport, or charter boat. Nor is a Passport required when one has no plans to return to ‘merica.

      • cielo62 says:

        Looney doone- charter boats or general aviation planes won’t get him too far. Unless he escapes to Cuba.

        Sent from my iPod

      • looneydoone says:

        I’m thinking Dominican Republic or Haiti

      • Trained Observer says:

        If Fogen actually made it out of the country (doubtful, even with aid from his whining, lying fam and low-life pals), he’d need a destination that has no extradition agreement with the U.S.

        I’m more inclined to think he’ll go with a phony sympathy ploy, andthat the massive weight gain is a run-up to that. .

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        Peruvian law entitles children born to a Peruvian parent outside Peru, to the Peruvian nationality, as long as they are registered with a ambassy or consulate before turning 18.
        They also allow dual nationalities.
        There is a chance GZ has a Peruvian passport.

    • cielo62 says:

      Trained Observer- I agree. I think GZ will try to pull off something. I don’t know if it will be an all-out escape attempt (the bond company has a vested interest in preventing that) or a suicide “enactment”. GZ doesn’t have the cojones to really kill himself but he’ll try a pity ploy that he was “so distraught that he attempted suicide”. My guess is it will happen in May.

      Sent from my iPod

      • looneydoone says:

        Cuba’s too strict on entry
        He could however, be in possession of counterfeit documents that would get him into Haiti or Dominican Republic and out again, on his way elsewhere. Hell, Aruba as a jumping off point is a possibility

        • cielo62 says:

          Looneydoone- true. But the question then becomes did he really squirrel away enough money to pull it off? Somehow I doubt it.

          Sent from my iPod

      • looneydoone says:

        He’s never been self supporting, and I don’t believe his parents are paupers. Being bi-lingual (sorta, his spoken Spanish is quite poor) he could find work easily enough in the service sector, and live comfortably.
        George Michael van der sloot

      • Trained Observer says:

        Looneydoone —

        George Michael van der Sloot — hilarious, yet upon more serious consideration, absolutely — two scumbag offspring, enabled by indulgent parents, the fathers both being “sorta” judges.

    • Malisha says:

      I have a bet going: 45% Fogen escapes; 45% there’s a plea deal that the public would rise up in outrage at if it were not for the fact that the MSM has been selling the story that the prosecution’s case is weak; 10% it goes to trial and if so, 9% of that 10 = conviction.

      • cielo62 says:

        Malisha- such a pessimist! With a million in bond money tied up, I’m sure the bond company has a vested interest in keeping tabs on him. The state also had its reputation to consider. So very little chance of an escape. The prosecution has no reason to offer a plea deal. They are bound to silence in the public realm unlike the defense. 100% this goes to trial and 95% he’ll be found guilty on 1st vote in jury conclave. Yep! Black smoke for GZ! Guilty as charged.

        Sent from my iPod

  28. onlyiamunitron says:

    Baez went on a television show on an area station, was interviewed and said some stuff.

    An area newspaper reported on that.

    I’m pretty sure that newspaper did not force Baez to appear on that TV show, or to say anything in particular, and did not force the television station to invite Baez on the program.

    I’m also pretty sure that the newspaper has a lawer (at least 1) who would advise them not to risk a lawsuit (not to mention public ridicule) by misquoting a lawyer or misreporting what was said on that television show (which is not the same as an honest,if sloppy, mistake) when it could be so easily proven by the station replaying the tape of the show.

    And the person who writes about local television for that newspaper is not the same person who reports on crime and the courts for that newspaper.

    And that newspaper reprorting that Michael Knox is working for a television station as a commentator of some sort is not the same as that newspaper paying Knox one thin dime.


    • blushedbrown says:


      >>>I’m pretty sure that newspaper did not force Baez to appear on that TV show, or to say anything in particular, and did not force the television station to invite Baez on the program.

      Yes he was!! He said he was kidnapped and she agreed that she did! . Baez was kidnapped, forced to be on the show!! (chuckle chuckle)

      Wouldn’t that be a forcible felony as described under Florida law 776.08?


  29. pat deadder says:

    I just watched an interview with TM’s brother.What a nice young man. He said Trayvon made really good marks,his brother said he showed Trayvon around his college campus because Trayvon was going to college as well.He spoke of the day they went horse back riding.Trayvon’s first time on a horse that was somewhat unrully.Also from another place just heard Trayvon’s Grandfather is a retired police officer.His brother also said how Trayvon was just not an aggressive person.I guess that’s why I haven’t heard anything from omara about school records.

    • Jun says:

      FDLE apparently said at the last hearing that there is nothing admissible in Trayvon’s records

      So that means the only character evidence Fogen can give is from their biased family members on how decent of a guy he is LMAO

    • ay2z says:

      Where was the interview? Wonder if it will be posted or available online?

      • pat deadder says:

        It was on Global Grind I think.I’m sorry I’m just not computer savy.I don’t know anything about GG.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        If any of you find the link, I would be interested in watching the interview.

      • pat deadder says:

        to ay2z and yahtc I went back to global grind The interview with Jahvaris Fulton was on CNN with Sunny Hostin on April14 2012.Hope this helps.jeeze I can’t believe I found it again.My son keeps telling me I need to get into the 21st century.To listen to this interview is so calming.

  30. Rachael says:,0,2644229.story

    SANFORD — When Trayvon Martin, an unarmed black 17-year-old, was shot dead by George Zimmerman, a suspicious Neighborhood Watch volunteer, the reaction was swift and loud.

    • cielo62 says:

      Rachel- my response to the City of Sanford is “boo-fucking-hoo.” Maybe if the cops had just done their job in the first place, they would saved all that money. Society is based on a just set of laws applied equally to all. When that doesn’t happen, anarchy prevails. If you think providing justice is expensive, try anarchy.

      Sent from my iPod

    • parrot says:

      Rene Stutzman’s headline:

      “Sanford City Hall tally: Trayvon Martin case has cost $603,000”

      “In pure dollars and cents, City Hall reports that it has spent $603,000 on Trayvon Martin-related expenses”.

      The State of Florida filed against George Zimmerman and it is the expenses related to the George Zimmerman case that has cost City Hall $603,000.

      This woman lays her biass bare for everyone to see.

      • Jun says:

        I think its better Fogen’s gang members pay his fees than the people of Florida

      • PiranhaMom says:

        @Parrot –

        Why doesn’t the City of Sanford sue George Zimmerman to recoup the $603,000?

        The City would not have faced that expense if Z had just stayed in his schtruck.

        Dialog should have been:

        GZ: “Shit, he’s running!”

        Sean/311: “Are you following him?”

        GZ: “Yeah.”

        Sean/311: “We can’t afford you to to that.”


        NOTE to City of Sanford FL:

        New Ordinance required: Penalty for armed vigilante pursuit of unarmed juvenile:
        $600,000 to $1,200,000.

        Pass this Ordinance QUICK!

        • onlyiamunitron says:

          “Sean/311: “We can’t afford you to to that.” ”

          New keyboard, please.


          • PiranhaMom says:


            Naah, Uni – need mo’ careful brain.

            No spell-check on the blog, so I usually go back over my posts to correct.

            Problem is, the brain won’t sweat the small stuff. Like “to” instead of “do.”

            But hey — YOU knew what I meant, riiiiiigt?

            How’ja like my proposed ordinance?


          • onlyiamunitron says:

            Was shortened version of long standing internet meme “You owe me a new keyboard”, as in “I found what you posted so funny that the instantaneous and overwhelming laughter it brought on caused the beverage which I was consuming at the time to explode from my mouth and nose all over my keyboard, necessitating its replacement.”.

            I didn’t even notice the typo. Too busy mopping up iced tea.

            : – )


            (who now keeps hearing in his head “we can’t afford you to do that” in the voice of the HAL 9000 computer on the ship in “2001:A Space Odyssey”

            “I’m sorry, George, we can’t afford you to do that” )

          • PiranhaMom says:


            Sorry to be such a dinosaur, and one devoid of a sense of humor at that, but I had no clue as to historic techie lingo. I thought you were being charitable and blaming the typo on my keyboard. See how gallant I think you are?

            THEN, my next post had five or six clinkers in it and I thought, “Oh Lord, Uni’s going to kill me when this shows up in print.”

            Instead, you’re being Mr. Nice Guy – thanks!

      • ay2z says:

        Yes! Her attitude is strange, maybe she feels no one is on the fogen’s side, and she has to do it.

        How much has the vigilante 911 nen calling watchman survveiling man cost in calls, call outs?

      • Cercando Luce says:

        There something wrong with Rene Stutzman. I don’t know what the deal they made is. Is Defense paying Stutzman to word headlines like that?

        George Zimmerman drove his landlord into a foreclosure by not paying rent, blocking property taxes that pay for the City of Sanford. The murder case, Florida vs. George Zimmerman is 100% due to George’s behavior choices.

        But now Stutzman has opened another door on the SPD; THE WHOLE COVER-UP COULD HAVE SAVED MONEY FOR THE CITY! I was wondering about that, and here’s a knowledgeable reporter telling us that they are very concerned about all the expenditures. Trayvon paid sales tax on his purchase, obeyed the law, bothered no one.

        Rene Stutzman is blaming Trayvon for the expense of this murder case because something’s wrong with Rene, and Rene’s editor, and the editor’s editor-in-chief.

        • onlyiamunitron says:

          “and here’s a knowledgeable reporter telling us that they are very concerned about all the expenditures.”

          Please quote, directly from that story, where anyone from the city government said that, or complained about the expense, or where the reporter said that they are concerned about the expenditures.


        • PiranhaMom says:

          @Cercando Luce

          On most papers, the reporter does not write the headlines. That’s a special skill. The reporter is often told how much real estate (i.e., column space) he or she will get, and writes accordingly – or has the report scissoed down. That’s what editors are for – they do more trimming than correcting.

          Besides being a special skill, when they “make up the papael” (decide what’s first page, above or below the fold, photos to be included, etc.
          ONLY THEN does the headline writer ply his or her craft, depanding on the column width of the report.

          One of the chronic problems is that the headline writer often does not read much more than the lede – so if who, what, when, where, and often how and why are not upfront in the first para, the headline writer gets the wrong slant – and the headline suffers ecause of it.

          So while there’s often a lot of dumping on Rene here, the headline is likely not her doing.

      • @PiranhaMom

        Sean/311: “Are you following him?”

        GZ: “Yeah.”

        Sean/311: “We can’t afford you to to that.”


      • onlyiamunitron says:

        Reporters don’t write headlines.

        They turn in their copy and editors decide how much of it to run and they decide what the headline will be.


      • Cercando Luce says:

        unitron @ 3/10, 11:18PM:

        What for? Point is that local paper blames Trayvon Martin for costs of prosecuting his murderer. How fabulous is that?

        • onlyiamunitron says:

          They did not “blame” anybody, and no one they quoted blamed anyone, they just reported the expenses incurred so far in relation to the case.


      • Trained Observer says:

        Cerando — Reporters rarely write headlines, especially on big metropolitan dailies, although they may file suggestions at top of their copy at some rags. Moreover, reporters are employed and assigned to report the news. Just because you don’t like the news, does not mean you should kill the messenger.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        Thank you, T.O.,

        I agree reporters are hired to report news. Rene Stutzman, a reporter, decided to attribute the expenses (of Florida vs. George Zimmerman) to the late Trayvon Martin, who was doing nothing wrong or illegal when Mr. Zimmerman followed and killed him. Said reporter chooses not to mention George Zimmerman, and THAT in and of itself is news.

        No messenger has been killed, only Trayvon Martin.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Rene Stutzman is blaming Trayvon for the expense of this murder case because something’s wrong with Rene, and Rene’s editor, and the editor’s editor-in-chief. — Cerando Luce

        Cerando, … C’mon … you are being incredibly obtuse. The story tallied costs of the case to the city of Sanford. It’s a standard bit of reporting to assign when a small town is hit with a high profile crime investigation (or any kind of crisis from beach erosion to tornado damage). Sooner or later we’ll all be reading something similar for the Newtown massacre. So you think we should blame whatever reporters ends up getting assigned to write it?

      • Malisha says:

        So here’s my point: If you want to allow neighborhood renters to kill Black kids whenever they have a bad hair day, you got to pay the piper. It’s gonna cost you. If you want that hemmorhaging of money to stop, don’t let that happen any more. Simple. Kill kids, pay the piper. Don’t want to pay, put a stop to the behavior. Easiest way to stop the behavior: Name it; Punish it. Make no mistake about it.

  31. Rachael says:

    @ SpecialladyT:

    I saw on the previous blog entry that you found some information on a FB page and it is now in the proper hands. I found that same information in 2 other places – not FB, and I don’t know where you sent it or how you can get a hold of me, but maybe the professor could give you my email so I can send you the info or you could tell him where you sent it or you could tell me where to send it. I know of one place I can send it, but I don’t know if it is the same as yours and I don’t know how to get in touch with you or you with me – so if anyone (probably the professor) knows how to put us in touch with each other –

  32. Jun says:

    The same thing happened in the Marissa case where she made up stories to the media and even had the public fooled and then Corey proved her wrong and the achilles heel was the trajectory that proved Marissa wrong

    There was an old white guy that brandished his gun and shot at some teenagers and he told stories to the public and Corey proved him wrong too

    I mean even if Trayvon was on top ever for the struggle, it does not necessarily mean it was self defense for Fogen, because the fact is Fogen stalked and chased Trayvon with a gun and went at Trayvon and he may very well have been attempting to pin Fogen down while yelling for help

    I listened to that scream tape a gazillion times and it still does not sound like Fogenhats to me and 4 on scene witnesses describe it as a kid screaming, and the rest with the exception of 6 and 11 have stated that the screams for help were ended with a gunshot

    Its gonna be an interesting trial and I can see BDLR objecting a lot as Omara will try to be using hearsay

    Another factor is Omara going at witness 8 about hospital records, opens the door to his client regarding his hospital records and he has none, so does Omara or West really want to go at witness 8 about that over a non issue when it becomes vastly material for his client? Was witness 8 used to bait the defense? The state never confirmed she lied. The state simply replied to the request for hospital records that there were never any medical records to obtain, which could mean the state simply did not have them for the defense to obtain and they never made any effort to obtain them and then they asked them to depose witness 8 and it is moot.

    All I say is that there is a fair and impartial jury that looks at the whole picture and that there are reasonable arguments and not Zidiot nonsense

  33. ay2z says:

    LLMPapa has No. 4 up of the reasons no SYG. Another good one with the attentive Judge NElson at the helm and asking hard questions this time..

  34. Opercarla says:

    Sorry, I hear Trayvon yell “help” at the 39 second mark.

  35. Opercarla says:

    As far as fogen yelling help. I actually think I hear him yell help at the 44 second mark. I hear Trayvon yelling help at the 37 second mark. I think I hear fogen asking (threatening) “what?” at the 37 second mark. Trayvon is clearly yelling “no” I believe that fogen decided to yell “help” because he knew he was going to kill Trayvon Benjamin Martin. He did steal his screams. BLDR stated that there are two voices on the tape. What does anyone else hear?

    • ay2z says:

      I think BDLR said in response to defense argument about their client and the helps, that there could be two different voices on the tape. I don’t recall that he said two voices definitively.

      • Xena says:

        @ay2z. The argument on that issue gets heated around 6:27 into the video. BDLR makes his statement at about 8:29 into the video saying, “There actually could be two voices….”

      • Tzar says:

        when a lawyer tells in open court that there could be two voices, he’s telling you that there are 2 voices

        • Xena says:


          when a lawyer tells in open court that there could be two voices, he’s telling you that there are 2 voices

          LOL!! Yeah, and that it’s not Brady material and doesn’t have to be given to the defense, so Skeletor West can stop whining and after trial, lick his wounds.

    • Cercando Luce says:

      Geez, the call goes for 1:30 after the gunshot at 7:16.56. That means the multiple yelling voices she reported hearing were yelling before police arrived. (And saying what?) That means that Jon(?) was taking picture of gz’s head at 7:19.07 while she was still in the call. I can hear her running upstairs right after gunshot.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        Now I think all the neighbors jumped right in it– yelling about the terrible attack their trusted (deadbeat, lying) Neighborhood Watchman had just sustained, averting a crime against one of Them, and immediately buying his story. This is one for the Abnormal Psych classes.

    • Tee says:

      That’s the very thing I have been saying from jump. He yelled out help I think once but Trayvon help was a scream in terror, they were to distinctively different sounds.

    • Trayvon is clearly yelling “no” I believe that fogen decided to yell “help” because he knew he was going to kill Trayvon Benjamin Martin

      Was he taunting the child by yelling “help”?

      • FactsFirst says:

        I’ve been saying from day one that last yell for HELP (it wasn’t a scream it was a YELL)was fogen.. I believe forgen knew he would have to account for Trayvon’s screams, so he yelled help “one time” just before he shot Trayvon so if asked about the screams, he’d be telling the “partial” truth.. That’s how forgen passed the lie detector test! I bet a hundred dollars to a bucket of shit that if the FBI analyze that last YELL for help to all the other screams for help, it’ll be TWO different voices…

      • Trained Observer says:

        I think he was covering his fat ass … and at the same time (if he had accomplices) it was a ” ‘help’ me I’m about to kill” signal to those lurking nearby … sort of a take-off on the old “Help me before I kill again” jokes.

    • Jun says:

      At the very beginning of the tape I can hear Fogenbottomz grunt and then you hear a youthful voice, like a kid’s voice yelling “get off”

      Then you hear another scream for help that sounds like a youthful or kid’s voice

      Then you hear a weird howl

      Then you hear a youthful kid’s voice making squealing or groaning sounds

      Then you hear a weird squealing sound mixed with a howl

      Then you hear a kid’s voice squeal in pain and say “ahhhh”

      Then I hear the whispery creepy voice of Fogen saying something

      Then I hear “help, help” and then the yells for help are ended with a gunshot

  36. Tee says:

    What I don’t understand is how these grown men like Baez & Knox find it perfectly fine to voice their bias opinions about a case where another grown man killed a child. Trayvon was a child! It makes me very upset when you have men like Baez and Knox spouting bullshit to the media. if it was their child laying on that wet grass that night with a hole in his heart I’ll bet my life he or anyone else would want GZ under the jail cell. A lot of people have said that if the roles were reversed Trayvon would have been in Jail that night, we black people know this to be true. I say think if that was a white kid laying on the wet grass with a hole in his heart and a white man offer that same story how would the world react then. These same people that support GZ would be shouting from the mountain top about how GZ needs to held responsible for that child’s death. Let that had been a white 17 yr..old boy, with no criminal record, no history of violence, no weapon only candy and a drink on him, GZ would have been arrested that night and he would still be in jail right now. No other race can imagine what being black is like, it doesn’t matter if you have black friends or married to a black person no one will ever know what it is to be in this skin. I’m a black women and still have no clue what it is like for my husband everyday, you hear him when he says that the bank teller called him a nigger under her breath then denied it. You hear him when he said that he was pulled over and his car was searched on his way home from work, you hear him when he said that he was overlooked for that Promotion that should have been his and he is forced to train someone with less experience and education than he, and you hear him when he walks in and tell you that the Chief of Police who arrested your son on his way home from college, for trafficking drugs in a small county in Georgia, had killed himself when it finally was revealed that he and his officers were planting drugs on young black men traveling through that county and demanding large sums of money to make it “go away.” We hear them but can we ever understand what black people especially black men go through so often in this country. Trayvon died because a grown man wanted to play police and that is what matters here, GZ need to held accountable.

    • Tzar says:

      they are fucking depraved

    • Cercando Luce says:

      If the roles were reversed, Baez wouldn’t be saying it seemed like a weak case.

    • @Tee

      I’m a black women and still have no clue what it is like for my husband everyday, you hear him when he says that the bank teller called him a nigger under her breath then denied it.

      Preach! Similar thing happened to my brother.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        This is so upsetting…..
        I am constantly learning what my white privilege “entitles” me to unfairly. Yuk, I want to scrape this white privilege off of me!

      • Rachael says:

        I understand completely. I do too. I can’t believe what my son has gone through. I mean I love him dearly, but sometimes I wonder, if I knew then what I know now…

        No man, woman or child should have to even think about going through such things.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        I just received my copy of Tim Wise’s book, “White Like Me, Reflections on Race from a Privileged Son” in the mail.

  37. Rachael says:

    OMG!!! Look at this insane effn comment:

    Sybrina Fulton: “kids have a right to walk in peace without being followed, without being pursued….b/c of color of skin, hoodie…”

    Yes, Sybrina, and the residents of townhome complexes have a right to live in peace without being burglarized, and without being in fear of criminals lurking around their neighborhood. Since Trayvon’s various parental units wanted to let him wander about on his own, unsupervised, perhaps they should’ve notified the NW that a non-resident 17 year-old AA male teen on his 3rd school suspension was staying in the complex in the townhome of the woman his married father was currently sleeping with, and would be wandering around after dark unsupervised. I’m sure that little heads up would’ve made GZ and the rest of the NW committee feel MUCH more comfortable with TM’s presence in their neighborhood.

    Doesn’t make a damned bit of sense, does it Sybrina?

    Can you believe that? Unfrickenbelievable!!!!!!

    • Jun says:

      That guy’s an idiot

      How does Trayvon walking home from 7-11 with Skittles he paid for affect the townhouse complex’s right to be free from crime?

      If anything, Fogen’s stalking and chasing and killing of a kid caused the community the most fear, and added to the crime rate

      And if he wants to go there, what about the fact Fogen attacked cops? Molested and attempted to rape his cousin? Beat up his ex? Scammed the court with a scheme to hide his passport and money? Lied about his murder? Why was Fogen walking around unsupervised?

      Feel free to use my reply to the troll

      • How does Trayvon walking home from 7-11 with Skittles he paid for affect the townhouse complex’s right to be free from crime?

        Early on in the case Fox News was asking where was the receipt for the candy & drink. Can you believe that? An unarmed kid shot dead and you ask where was his receipt for candy? As if he stole it? The disrespect for this dead child is reprehensible.

      • Tzar says:

        @ SG if you have a link for fox asking for the receipts I would appreciate it

      • @Tzar

        Mar 23 – FOX NEWS: “Did Trayvon Steal the Candy and Tea?”

        Fox News anchors and hosts are beginning to ask fair and balanced questions about the Trayvon Martin tragedy, and today the nation’s most popular news source is reporting, “no receipt was found by investigators for the candy or the tea Martin was menacing at George Zimmerman when the neighborhood watchman was forced to defend himself.”

        The revelation came this morning on Fox and Friends during an interview with Bill “Bull” Lee, who has temporarily stepped-down as Sanford Chief of Police in order to act as Zimmerman’s official spokesman. Lee told the cast of the popular morning show, “After we stripped the dead suspect and tested him for drug and alcohol use and then dug under his finger and toe nails for any incriminating DNA, we checked his blood-soaked clothes for any kind of evidence of wrong doing. All we found was 34 cents and a couple of baseball cards.”

        “That’s it?” Gretchen Carlson asked dismayed. “Seems to me that something was obviously missing: why wasn’t there a receipt for the pop [sic] and candy?”

      • This may be a joke but Gretchen Carlson did ask where was the receipt. Let me look for the video.

      • @Tzar

        Let me look through some posts we did in the beginning. I am sure I documented it. It was asked on Fox and Friends.

      • Rachael says:

        That is disgusting about did he steal it/where is the receipt. And of course we’ve all seen the video. Dang, sure glad they asked fair and balanced questions. And I’m sure he didn’t wad the receipt up and toss it in the trash on his way out. Why I bet he thuggishly littered.

        WTF is WRONG with these people???

        • onlyiamunitron says:

          It’s FOX News, the outfit that went to court to get a ruling that said they had a legal right to lie in their newscasts.

          Granted it was in connection to an entirely different matter several years ago, but drawing an audience to sell to advertisers by calmly explaining to them what really happened as best they can is not really their business model.


      • aussie says:

        I don’t have links for asking for the receipts, but I do remember them being mentioned. The Outhouse wanted them, too. They shut up after the 711 video came out and Trayvon was clearly seen paying for his purchases.

      • aussie says:

        @ Southern Girl

        that is very interesting. Trayvon had $40 on him, not 34 cents, and no baseball cards were ever put into evidence with his other belongings……so something was wrong with that Bill Lee quote in the first place.

        “…Bill “Bull” Lee, who has temporarily stepped-down as Sanford Chief of Police in order to act as Zimmerman’s official spokesman….””

        whaaaaa???? Bill Lee was GZ’s official spokesman? how did we ever miss this?

      • Rachael says:

        God I hope so unitron.

      • Malisha says:

        That’s just stupid racist cant from someone who believes the crimes they commit are OK crimes because they had “good reasons” for their crimes. They’re willing to extend the same “free card to be a criminal” to one of their own, Fogen. So they blame the victim. Oldest and stupidest game in the book. It’s what has brought about our responsibility-free society.

    • It sounds just like the woman who stated she had no sympathy for Sybrina losing a child. In these folks mind Trayvon Martin had NO right to walk down the street b/c a black teenage boy’s main goal is to burglarize good upstanding white people. In their mind a black male = up to no good thug. Racism is a sickness.

      • Rachael says:

        It sounds like her because it comes from the same place (I saw her comment yesterday too), but it isn’t.

        Like Trained Observer said, where to start? There are not enough words for such blatant racism, bigotry and profiling.

        Makes me want to jump into my car and drive that hour drive just to hug my son, knowing this was and probably always will be part of his life.

        I’m such a naive white woman.

        Will it be different for my granddaughters?

      • KittySP says:

        SG2 said:”It sounds just like the woman who stated she had no sympathy for Sybrina losing a child”

        I believe what God says in his Word about “reaping and sowing”, and “judging”…and as tragic and heart broken the families of the movie theater and Sandy Hook victims must be…I can’t help but to wonder how many of the victims, their parents, or family members, had disparaging comments to say about Trayvon and his parents. God cautions us in His Word in: Galatians 6:7, Matthew 7:1-2. Whether you believe or not…someday we all will stand before Him and give an account for our life and be judged accordingly.

      • @KittySP

        You gave me goosebumps b/c I know the Holy Scriptures do not lie. Sowing and reaping is a spiritual law whether it’s good or bad.

      • chills101 says:


        I’ve always had the same feeling…….

    • Trained Observer says:

      Where to begin ?????

    • I am not surprised because I have come to expect that kind of comment from the defendant’s supporters.

      They are unrepentant racists twisted by their hatred and nothing they say contains value.

      They are mean, stupid, willfully ignorant and proud of it.

    • Rachael says:

      Good God, the reply to the post I posted wasn’t any better:

      “The NW should have been notified as well that the teen doesnt like to be approached while he is up to no good and the feral teen will attack viciously anyone he thinks may be preventing him from casing properties to break into.”


      Seriously, WTF is WRONG with them?

      • Cercando Luce says:

        The NW!? Really? A squatter driving his landlord into foreclosure, dead-beating his creditors right and left, brow-beating actual homeowners in the neighborhood– oh yes, of course, the Neighborhood Watch!

        Of course, it’s easy to to reply to you from a computer 1,000 miles away.

    • degraveegmailcom says:

      What,they want people to report to the Kampkomandant at RVC?

    • KittySP says:

      Should’ve replied well since GZ claims to have ESP, knowing EVERYONE in the development…there was no need for an “heads up”. Perhaps that poster needs to get their ‘head from up their butt’ before making insensitive comments. Be assured, what goes around, will come around!

    • Dan Q. Smith says:

      “their” in “their neighborhood” is code for “white”. These people disgust me.

  38. Elizabeth De Grave says:

    I think he means the case is weak for self-defense.
    One witness(not really)
    GZ calling for help on the audio tape(also not really)

    That is not so strong,,,,

  39. Jun says:

    I dont think Baez read all the evidence because he pretty much only recited what the Zidiots repeat over and over.

    There was not only one eye witness. W18 watched it from the confrontation onward and places Fogen as the aggressor and the person on top and stated that Fogen simply rose to his feet after shooting the kid. She also said she feels it is the younger voice, the young boy who was screaming. W1 also said it was a kid making weird noises. Mary Cutcher and Selma both state it was a kid screaming and they swear to that. The 911 tape sounds nothing like Fogenhats.

    They could attack witness 8 over hospital records but then the look into Fogen’s hospital records would become an even larger microscope, considering the lack thereof. Witness 8 is also supported by witness 2, w18, w1, Mary Cutcher and Selma, when not even being at the scene or knowing any of the parties and her testimony matches evidence. By MOM trying to say that Fogen’s story is believable, then the trial will show he can be a liar too.

    Baez however refused to call out the end result of the trial because they are unpredictable. Baez even noted that the media said the case against Anthony was strong and Baez got her acquitted.

    Lastly, there could be a possibility that Orlando Sentinel completely twisted everything Baez said

    • PiranhaMom says:


      Has it ever been established why Serino retained Baez as his attorney? Is Serino concerned that there will be repercussions from his telling witnesses that (and I paraphrase here) “If it makes you feel any better, the guy who was screaming was not the guy who was killed.” This was also later stated by the 911 dispatcher.

      SanfordPD seems to have swallowed Zimmerman’s excuse hook, line & sinker.

      But keep in mind that Zimmerman told Serino after hearing the 311 tape “It doesn’t even sound like me.”

      That, of course, was well after the public misinformation by Serino the night of the killing.

      Could that be why Baez is citing “GZ calling for help on the audiotape”?

      Is he going to try to advance that theory as a way to get Serino off the hook on this one issue?

      • PiranhaMom says:

        Sorry, goofed on the above; should have written “after hearing the 911 tape, ‘it doesn’t even sound like me.’ “

      • Jun says:

        I have no idea

        The media frenzy during the trial is really pointless and stupid and i dont get it

        It is a simple case of a wanna be cop chasing down and attacking and killing a kid, trying to claim it was self defense

        The Michael Dunn case does not even have the same issues

        I do not get it

      • ChrisNY~Laurie says:


        Great thinking. I think you may very well be right on why Baez is making media appearances and made that statement.

      • Jun says:

        I dont think Serino is in trouble

        He can just be honest when asked about it and say he was bamboozled by the defendant until he heard the tape, which could very well be the truth, and then he can be honest and say because of that I may have argued with witnesses on what they said they saw or heard

        At the end of the day even after his mistakes he felt Fogen needed murder 2 indicted upon himself

        Baez confuses me because witness 6 is not the only eyewitness and there are 4 on scene witnesses who say it sounded like a kid screaming for help and the 911 tape is a 5th witness and I do not hear Fogenhats on the call screaming (I do hear him grunt and say something to Trayvon while he is screaming for help)… I also believe I hear Fogenhats howl but I could be wrong

        The only people citing witness 6 and the screams are Fogen as evidence (when it is not) are Zidiots so maybe he means that it is weak

  40. towerflower says:

    The OS referenced a Channel 6 flashpoint story, this is the link to that:

    First half is all about Casey, then plugging this book. Fogen start at 7:20 mark.

    • towerflower says:

      He only cites two things to “support” the weak case. One is that there is only one witness to the altercation (What?) and two is that GZ told the cops that he was screaming for help before he knew there was a 911 tape with the screams for help. (so much for the audio experts who have stated that it is not fogen).

      Then they have a laugh over how MOM was the legal expert for Channel 6 when the Casey Anthony trial was going on and now Baez is the legal expert for Channel 6 for the Zimmerman trial.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Thank you for link towerflower —

      Well, there we have it (after all the introductory yuks), straight from the mouth of Jose Baez: “Mark O’Mara is a very capable lawyer.”

      Soon , we shall see … as if we haven’t already.

  41. colin black says:

    Baez had no trouble lieing from his back teeth.
    To help a Baby MURDERER escape justice for her actions.
    Why wouldd he have any problem lieing about the strength an depth of evidence against foge.
    Baez an Chenney were both inept in the defencese of trunkmom.

    An the State put on an excellent as compelling case for conviction.

    They lucked out with a jury willing to be au contraire in the hope of hitting pay dirt.

    Why shouldnt they feel entiled everyone else was cashing in on CAYLEE.

    Why shouldnt they .
    Everyone knows she is guilty everyone is expecting a conviction.
    We set this bitch free an then we are the STORY.
    We will rake in the cash .
    Jenifer Ford sat back an waited fot the big bucks big interveiws.

    All she got was a visit to disneyland for her an her brood.

    Baez can say what he likes he is a dolt.
    An fogen aint gonna get no pinnelas pinheads on his jury.

    • jm says:

      “Baez can say what he likes he is a dolt. An fogen aint gonna get no pinnelas pinheads on his jury.”

      I hope GZ doesn’t get “pinelas pinheads” on his jury but unfortunately the pinheads in Florida aren’t limited to 1 county as evident by the Zimmerman family and the Osterman’s who live in Seminole county. You know with people walking around like Casey Anthony and family and the Zimmerman Kkklan it is hard to think there isn’t something wrong with the state’s water supply or some other sort of contamination.

  42. cielo62 says:

    But who could stop him? Judge Nelson? To protect Serino, you’d think h would say that GZs case is weak, since Serino had originally also wanted to press Murder 2 charges. All these defense lawyers have been very sleazy.

  43. creepytwins says:

    Makes me think that Serino’s testimony will not be good for the prosecution. It’s never good when the lead investigator thinks the charges are weak.

    That said, I’m surprised that Baez gave a statement regarding the case considering he is representing Serino. I wonder what his motive is???

    • Serino’s opinions regarding the weakness or strength of the prosecution case are irrelevant and inadmissible.

      • creepytwins says:

        It just seems weird to me; Typically the lead investigator is a solid witness for the prosecution. It’ll be interesting to watch his questioning and cross examination at the trial.

      • Malisha says:

        Lead investigator is a fact witness, not an opinion witness.
        His attorney is also not an opinion witness.
        These people are just flapping their mouths because they do not expect to ever be under oath in a courtroom.
        And that is also why O’Mara is not taking DeeDee’s deposition.
        I’m not as dumb as I look.

    • Jun says:

      I actually do not know what to think

      In Canada we do not really see lawyers making public statements while a case is ongoing

      Serino made 2 capias for murder 2

      I think what Baez stated, if it was truly what he said (It is Orlando Sentinel so I do not know how much weight I can give it to truth) that it is just Baez’s opinion if that is the case, not Serino’s

      If anything his public statement would make his representation of Serino stronger because if Baez believes that the case is weak in his opinion but is representing Serino in the capias he put forth for murder 2, he would have had to meticulously question Serino to go with Serino’s capiases

      Or maybe Baez is just talking crap for controversy who knows?

      Baez may be personally just trying to rile up Zidiots by simply saying what they say repeated over and over

      The only problem with Baez’s statement in regards to witness 6 is witness 6 is not the only witness and witness 6 has made numerous conflicting statements so objectively speaking, we do not know what he saw because he is not clear

      I guess we will have to wait for trial and see what comes forth as we wont know what will happen

  44. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Do you think Baez is setting up a defense for Serino if the FBI pursues anything?
    Could Serino be protecting Serino by saying the evidence is weak, and that’s why Serino seemed to vacillate back and forth until the petition and public outcry led the governor of Florida to appoint a special state prosecutor.

  45. Five stars.

    I agree.

  46. Professor,

    I must admit that I was “keeping the faith”, in hopes that Serino obtaining a lawyer meant something good. (I know, Baez is probably never good lol). I was hoping that Serino would “man-up” and spill the beans so to speak. By Baez making such comments and doing so publicly, I almost feel like there is no good that will come from Serino. What are your thoughts on that?

    • Reading my comment back, I don’t feel like I was clear in what I was trying to say lol .My initial thoughts were that Serino might have hired Baez to protect himself from the SPD, not the State. I’m not so sure of that now.

  47. Ethics…… what ethics……. it appears no one is minding the store in Florida????

  48. Trained Observer says:

    Economic times apparently continue to be tough all over, especially for defense attorneys picking up clients without assets — people like Casey Anthony and Fogen.

    I can only assume the glitter of potential stardom outweighs the economic reality of trying to wage a solid defense on a shoestring or, more realistically, going into the hole.

    While MOM is still tied up with his no-win case, Baez appears to now be caught up in a nead to keep his name out there and generate income any way he can … conflict of interest be damn.

    It’s still not clear to me that the remarks reported in today’s Sentinel are fresh …. or whether some have been dredged up from last January and earlier.

    But were I Serino, I’d be annoyed.

    • ay2z says:

      Trained Observer says:

      But were I Serino, I’d be annoyed.

      Yes, would think he might be. Serino may have been caught in the offer of free representation, if so, this could be what he’s asked to allow, ‘in consideration’. Baez gets his link to the high profile case to ‘keep up appearances’.

    • Malisha says:

      We really don’t know where Serino’s interests will lie when all the dust settles. It appears to me that HE didn’t know during the first three days after the killing where they would lie, and that he did take some risks to try to do the right thing, but he also has made some compromises that make it clear that he is no whistle-blower. And why should he be a whistle-blower? We see in this country what really happens to REAL whistle-blowers. The folks that are supposed to be policing everyone are more on the side of cover-ups than anybody else, and why? They all have something hiding in their OWN closets. Nobody really clean can rise very far.

      However this whole thing comes out, it was a way that Corey can live with. And her initial statement in the case was WAY TOO EMOTIONAL for me not to have my suspicions. She can pray with whoever she wants to pray with; that is neither public action nor public information. She’s as much “in the game” as anyone.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        malisha – although i find the ‘prayed with the victim’s family’ thing to be a turn off, corey is protecting her interests. she must campaign actively to retain her position in a climate rife with born again christians. so yes, it turns me off, but i can see why she does it.

        corey has been admonished by judges in the past to not wear specific jewelry while prosecuting (gigantic cross necklace – think of flavor fav’s watch necklace in cross form). she is who she is – good, bad or indifferent.

  49. xy11xy says:

    Yes, but who will penalize him?

    • Cercando Luce says:

      Don’t Bar association rules require that his client, Chris Serino, complain about his breach before it would ever do anything at all about it?

      • I do not have any faith in bar associations disciplining lawyers for anything except commingling their funds with client funds (trust account violations) and having sex with their clients.

        Every lawyer should be familiar with the rules of professional responsibility, including Baez, so every lawyer should realize that he has a conflict of interest.

        This will not help his professional reputation.

      • Malisha says:

        Professor, it won’t help his professional reputation but I think it will bring in the big bucks. He’s just put the red light on over his door. And everybody knows he “gives good defense.”

        • fauxmccoy says:

          malisha says

          He’s just put the red light on over his door. And everybody knows he “gives good defense.”

          you’re sooo good when you’re bad 🙂 don’t stop!

  50. ay2zy says:

    Baez personal gold over confidentialtiy. Pushing the edge of ethics, again.

  51. bettykath says:

    orlando sentinal is now a pay site.

  52. Two sides to a story says:

    Therefore, I take it, Baez has already acted and spoken irresponsibly.

      • Chocolate Diva says:

        Good Afternoon Professor, Yes I agree with you I think that was wrong for Jose to do that.

      • racerrodig says:

        What did he say in short. I missed it.

      • Trained Observer says:

        @racer — I pasted the TV columnist’s whole enchilada this morning on the “two reasons” thread because I knew some folks encounter paywall barriers. Essentialy, Baez was saying “weak case” on Zimmerman, and then babbling about his Casey.

      • roderick2012 says:

        It’s Serino’s fault for having Baez representing him in the first place.

        Baez knows that his career respresenting clients is over because no defendent wants punished with a guilty verdict because his lawyer previously defended someone who everyone thought got away with murder.

        Baez will continue to play the talking head, write a book or two and hit the lecture circuit if he hasn’t already.

    • SpecialladyT says:

      I just tweeted that unprofessional, unethical. so-called attorney. All I have to say is……..WOW!

      • Rachael says:


      • ladystclaire says:

        @Rachael, is your WTF in reference to his twitter name? Big Balls Baez? now who in the hell would want this man representing them in a court of law, especially since he chooses a handle such as this. this man is something else but, just what that is, I can’t post it here on this decent professor’s site. but I will say this, he is a media whore since the days of the Casey Anthony case.

        As the saying goes, a leopard never changes it’s spots!

      • Opercarla says:

        Big Balls Baez.orgy no less!

      • Rachael says:

        Yes. It just reminds me, coincidentally enough also in Florida, of a case we studied in class about a law firm, Pape & Chandler – who used the logo of a pit bull with a spiked collar and the phone number of 1-800-PITBULL and how it violated ethics and had nothing to do with what they did – I mean they were defense attorneys, not dog-bite attorney’s and though they felt that the visciousness of a pit bull was embodied what they were about, the bar apparently felt it was demeaning to advertize like that.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Operacarla, LMAO you are one more funny lady. but as the saying goes, no fool no fun right. you are all a *GREAT* bunch of guys here and, I would never and, I mean never apply for another account over at HP ever again. there are people on that site who have no morals what so ever and they also have no respect what so ever for this deceased kid and, it’s only because of the color of his skin.

        Also the owners of that site, lacks any decency of any kind seeing as to how they allow them to write all manner of evil about .this kid and his family. I’m saying it again, never has a murder victim and his/her family has *EVER* been mistreated in such a *VILE* disrespectful manner as Trayvon and his family has. this is such a damn shame and, to think that some of those who are attacking this victim and his family are mothers themselves.

        I just can’t wrap my mind around this and, I just can’t understand how some people be so cruel as well as ugly when it comes to the slander, defaming and *HATRED* for a deceased kid as well as his family, that they never knew. GOD help them because they are some pretty sick folks.

    • Dennis says:

      Well, the guy did try to pin Caylee Anthony’s murder on the meter reader. During the trial he even had the nerve to tell Judge Perry how to do his job.

      Defense attorneys should make good money, but apparently Baez is such an idiot that he writes bad checks and can’t pay his child support. The Casey Anthony case for him was about rejuvenating his failure of a career.

      The Florida board that screens prospective jurors would not let him practice law for 8 years after he graduated law school. The Supreme Court Justices even had this to say about him: “a total lack of respect for the rights of others and a total lack of respect for the legal system, which is absolutely inconsistent with the character and fitness qualities required of those seeking to be afforded the highest position of trust and confidence recognized by our system of law.”

      In simple terms, they basically said he is a piece of crap.

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