LLMPapa schools Michael Knox with schoolboy ruler

Tuesday, March 5, 2013

LLMPapa schools Michael Knox with schoolboy ruler.


260 Responses to LLMPapa schools Michael Knox with schoolboy ruler

  1. Bill Taylor says:

    also the ruler appears to break down in sixteenths of an inch which is a more precise scale than tenths of an inch…….Malisha i am agreeing with you both these posts……….i find it funny that some try to sound intellectual by claiming 7.0 is more precise than 7 when actual folks with intelligence KNOW they are the exact same number!

    • groans says:

      Maybe you should try to sound intellectual sometime.
      Just a suggestion.

    • xy11xy says:

      @Bill Taylor, math whiz

      I think you’re trying to bully me, Bill.

      You know what George Zimmerman is, at heart?: A bully.

      Why do you think I have been disemboweling George Zimmerman?: Because he’s a bully, who murdered a child.

      How do you think I’ll react if you try to bully me?

  2. Bill Taylor says:

    LOL, ok i surrender 7 inches and 7.0 inches are NOT the same distance to YOU, i will re
    main in the real world.

    • Malisha says:

      I think perhaps the point is that whether it was 7.0 inches or 7 inches, the physical evidence that was repreented in the actual body of Trayvon Martin does tend to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he was killed in a way that is totally INCONSISTENT with the false narrative given by Fogen to try to promote the idea that he killed in self-defense.

      If it’s 7.0 inches, that is the inescapable conclusion.
      If it’s 7 inches, that is still the inescapable conclusion.

      As far as I am concerned, then, an expert who can prove that it was 6.99999999999949612079466 inches, give or take, will still only be proving that the killing of Trayvon Martin was murder.

      • Bill Taylor says:

        i understand about the precision of instruments, but still to claim that 7 plus NOTHING(7.0) is a different number from 7 is just silliness to me…the less precise tool arrived at the exact same number as the more precise tool….7 inches and 7.0 inches ARE THE SAME DISTANCE!

      • xy11xy says:


        Failed math, huh?

        When the technician wrote down the measurements, I think she/he wrote down 7…with no decimal point or zero to the right of the decimal.

        In his/her other written measurements, she/he writes for example 7.5

        So does she/he mean EXACTLY 7 …or is she rounding? Now you(cough) and I know that all these measurements are not so precise that any Tech can say whether it’s 7.503127 or 7…why? ‘Cause she/he is using a small scale ruler.

        And that is the only scenario under which LLMPapa using a “schoolboy” ruler would be laughable…that is, where the measurement is so precise that the tech writes 7.503127

  3. xy11xy says:

    I liked these vids. They were clear and concise. LLMpapa showed me that the Home Depot rule did in fact measure 17.5 from the top of the mannequin’s head.

    As for the “schoolboy ruler” stuff. The only way the ruler matters is in terms of scale.

    One measurement I saw was 7 inches….NOT 7.0, which is different. The other measurements have one decimal precision. The “schoolboy” ruler measures to one decimal precision.

    It’s a low-down dirty trick for Knox to take advantage of potential innocent ignorance of

  4. Trained Observer says:

    Thanks, Malisha. (Hopefully the RTL resident with enough common sense to have complained about Fogen patrolling with a loaded gun has been identified by the State and will among those who get on the stand to testify. Then let Bill Lee try to escort him away from that, or try to explain during his own testimony.)

  5. Malisha says:

    I think pro-Fogen media reports now are part of a general plan I have been speaking about and speculating about since the beginning: Both sides will want to avoid a trial so they will allow media reports to make it seem possible that the prosecution has something to lose as well as the defense, if there is a trial, so a plea bargain becomes “acceptable” and the SPD does not have to be exposed and dismantled for their cover-up and their enabling of a murder.

    The false story is: Oh the prosecution’s main witness was crumbling.

    The idea that the prosecution is SURPRISED or BEWILDERED by the Defense’s decision not to have a SYG hearing is ridiculous. Or as my friend says, “Dick-youless!” Everybody knew from the get-go that the defense could not risk a SYG hearing. Everybody knew that Fogen could not risk testifying, too. And everybody knows it was not self-defense.

    If there’s a trial we will find out the things that neither side wants us to know. We will find out about HOA members participating in an organized effort to drive Bpa-lacks out of RTL; we will find out about Wolfinger and Lee and Mahaney; we will find out about Tim Smith and other SPD cops running little KKK units inside, on taxpayer money; we will find out about the lying “MMA-punches” witness and his HOA-connected wife or girlfriend; we will find out about obstruction; about witness intimidation; about Rashada and others complaining to the cops about Fogen’s armed patrols intimidating minority homeowners at RTL. And we may find out about why Burgess was not arrested in August 2011 when it was known that HE was the burglar.

    Lots of folks have a vested interest in a skewed plea rather than a public trial. Nelson is a straight arrow; she will run a real trial and perhaps both sides have reason to fear that.

    • Bill Taylor says:

      i agree, there is far more behind the scenes of this case than the easy to see evidence FACTS………there is big time public corruption behind this case and its coverup.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Mahaney? Just when I think I know who all the players are, another comes slithering in to my sightline? Who’s he/she?

      • Trained Observer says:

        Thanks, Malisha. (Hopefully the RTL resident with enough common sense to have complained about Fogen patrolling with a loaded gun has been identified by the State and will among those who get on the stand to testify. Then let Bill Lee try to escort him away from that, or try to explain during his own testimony.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Oh, and I totally agree … parties on assorted sides are not looking forward to trial. (There’s an audacity to being an innocent bystander to a murder and being willing to testify , and having the defense go after one’s credit report , banking info, employment history and other stuff, althouh I suppose that’s reality in many if not most cases.)

      • Malisha says:

        Patty Mahaney is the councilwoman who, I am guessing, was at the HOA meeting on March 1, 2012 where Bill Lee “escorted out” a HOA person who had made more than one complaint to the police about Fogen patrolling with a loaded gun. SPD refuse to divulge who that was. They are lairs. They are liars. SPD is full of liars. They lied. They lied. And Frances Robles knows that.

      • Rachael says:

        But can anything be done about it? Is there any way to get them or someone to own up to it?

    • whonoze says:


      JohnW6’s wife is not connected to the HOA. The current HOA president’s wife has the same first name as JohnW6’s wife. W11 is on the HOA board.

  6. colin black says:

    Expert wittneses.

    Are like everything else you purchase if you want the best you pay for it.
    You get the quality you pay for an if like fogen you pay for nothing.

    You end up with Knox.

  7. Professor, I just pulled this from an article that was linked on the previous thread. What would stop O’Mara from doing the same thing?

    The original article is posted on Talk Left. It states that O’Mara could actually let the trial begin, wait until the prosecution rests, and then call a motion to dismiss based on immunity. Below is a exerpt from the article, which cites a recent case in Florida following this exact line of events:

    “The shooting happened in October, 2011. The trial began on January 29, 2013. Diodato did not file a motion to dismiss based on immunity until the week before trial. Here is the docket, which shows:
    •1/24/13: Defense files Motion to Dismiss Based on Fl. Statute 776.032 (Stand Your Ground)
    •1/25/13: Defense files Amended Motion to Determine Immunity and Dismiss Based on Fl. Statute 776.032
    •1/28/13: Jury selection begins. Defense waives right to pre-trial hearing on stand your ground motion.
    •1/29/13: Opening Arguments. Defense tells jury Diodato acted in self-defense. Prosecution begins case.
    •1/31/13: Defense argues motion for judgment of acquittal and motion to dismiss based on stand your ground immunity. Both are denied. Defense begins its case, Diodato testifies.
    •2/1/13: Defense concludes case and renews motion to dismiss based on stand your ground immunity and motion for judgment of acquittal. Both are denied. (Judge denies immunity on ground that Hicks was trying to leave when Diodato shot him from behind.) Jury deliberates, returns verdict of guilty on lesser offenses (misdemeanor assault and battery vs. aggravated felony assault and battery carrying 20 and 25 year mandatory sentences) and guilty of the felony of deriving proceeds from prostitution
    •2/18/13: Diodato sentenced to time served on the assault and battery and 30 months on the felony of deriving profits from prostitution.

    From the Docket:

    1/31/13: Court Minutes[.] Defense Motion for J.O.A Count 1 – 3 – denied[.] Defense Amended Motion to Dismiss Count 1- Denied[.] Defense Renews All Previous Motion and Objections

    02/01/2013 Court Minutes[.] Defense Renews All Previous Motion and Objections – Judge[:] All His Previous Rulings Stand and Objection to Motion in Limine Ruling Remains[.] Defense Renews Motion for J.O.A.[.]Denied[.] Defense Renews Motion (Stand Your Ground)to Find Defendant Immune from Prosecution- Denied [.] Jury Finds the Defendant Count 1 Guilty of Battery a Lesser Included Offense[,] Count 2 Guilty of Assault a Lesser included Offense[,] Count 3 Guilty as Charged[.] All Bonds Revoked Pending Sentencing

    In other words, all O’Mara has ceded is the right to a pre-trial hearing on whether George Zimmerman is immune from prosecution (and the right to seek a immediate writ of prohibition in the District Court of Appeals, which if successful, would preclude a trial from taking place.) O’Mara can still file a motion to dismiss based on immunity, argue it to the Court at the close of the state’s evidence and renew it at the close of his case, before it goes to the jury. The judge would determine the motion based on the evidence presented at trial. If denied, O’Mara can still argue self-defense, including self-defense based on the immunity/stand your ground statute, to the jury. See, for example, McDaniel v. State.”

    • Tzar says:

      He can try but that does not sound very justicy

    • Does the fact that Judge Nelson already ruled on O’Mara’s deadline to hold the immunity hearing come into play here? It is as if he dismissed Judge Nelson’s denial for extra time by trying to force extra time for himself as far as the immunity hearing is concerned.

    • Rachael says:

      I read that article and it was really good. I was wondering the same thing.

    • Jun says:

      In this case, The judge would deny him in front of the jury repeatedly, and I believe the jury would wonder why Omara wont let the whole picture and pile of evidence be heard

      Then the jury and judge will be left wondering why they think it is self defense when the forensic evidence shows Trayvon did not do anything at all to Fogenhats, they will have heard nothing from Fogenhats therefore there is no claim of black dynamite, and they will wonder why he chose a black kid to chase down, attack threaten terrorize and kill because the kid was screaming for mercy

      I think any normal juror will probably be disgusted, especially at listening to a kid scream for life and the defendant just kill him, and they will hear all the powerful testimony, and I believe witness 6 will look like a liar due to the other witnesses and the forensic evidence

    • NEF05 says:

      IMHO – Judge Nelson will pull a full stop. None of those shenanigans in HER courtroom.

      IMO – you cannot shift the burder from the defense to the prosecution, which they did, de facto. Also, I’m 99% positive I read the professor’s opinion that they must be separate by state law/constitution. I’ll bet $$$ to donuts the prosecution is appealing it this one.

      “Judgment as a matter of law (JMOL) is a motion made by a party, during trial, claiming the opposing party has insufficient evidence to reasonably support its case. JMOL is also known as a directed verdict, which it has replaced in American Federal courts.”

      JMOL and a “directed verdict” (referenced above) are what I believe you are referrring to “when the state rests”. I can only extrapolate a similar situation, after the defense rests. I had the same questions when the whole “roll into trial” question first came up, however, I was brought to understand that the prosecution’s case is too strong to be dismissed, before or after resting. Of course, that’s just my understanding.

  8. Professor, my comment is in moderation. The 2 links I posted may have sent it into moderation?

  9. Has anyone seen or discussed this? I may have missed the discussion.

    Here is a report before the shooting occurred


    The defendant going around stalking the neighborhood asking for personal information from residents and would not present identification to residents or confirm he was neighborhood watch to residents so the cops got called on him.


    • blushedbrown says:


      OOoooo goodie, Thank you for those links!!

    • Tzar says:

      I don’t see any names of the subject being complained about

    • Interesting. Color me tin foil hat, but for a long time I have thought that GZ not only cased, but may have entered, some of the homes. Yeah. LOL, watch. Another hateful website about me will pop up this morning, because I said that.

      Haters, oh, haterrrrrrs: Here’s the deal, you see. I got to know some cat burglars in prison and they told me all their tricks. And GZ fits the deal, unless he was just, I don’t know. Stalking people for no reason? I

      • Edit: Take the “I” off the end of that last comment. Or not. I could go on for hours describing what I learned from the burglars. Matter of fact, I think I did, one time. Yeah. A few things here:


      • I’ll add this as well. The scrap metal recycle center in Sanford looks to be just over 3 miles away from Twin Lakes Retreat. Can’t help but wonder if GZ was registered there. To take metal in for cash.

        Doxing Hatefest:

        Let me save you some time, because this info might be hard to find. I am registered at both recycle centers in my town. Oh, and also, sigh, well, the only vehicle we have is a motorcycle, so we don’t scrap anymore, but anyway, we got our metal from dumpsters and alleys. So. Why was GZ going door to door in a gated neighborhood again?

      • NEF05 says:

        I don’t think you’re tin foil, at all C-S (course that might not be the best recommendation 🙂 )

        Many variations on that scam are used to determine who’s home, and their likely schedule. People don’t think twice about Utility workers, J-witnesses (except to hide, okay, maybe that’s just me), teens selling mags for college, contractors, carpenters, repaving driveway etc FedEx/UPS/Postal and other sorts that come in the day time.They blast it on our local news every sumer.

        C-S or someone correctme if I’m wrong, but weren’t all the complaints and burglaries in the Daytime? IF that’s accurate, isn’t it a problem that the “captain” of the NW was not only available, but intentionally misrepresented the burglaries to the police?

        • While I have not looked closely at all of the 911 calls, but if memory serves, and please correct me if I am wrong, the ‘burglaries in the neighborhood’ line was going on long before this neighborhood even. So, early on I remember thinking it was a type of ruse, just like I have heard described by folks who do these sorts of things.

          When I was locked up, and it’s been a few years now, but ‘paper’ or ‘check kiting’ was still popular, where ppl would steal checks and write fraudulent checks. A very common scam was simply, “Can I use your bathroom?”

          Getting to know people’s schedules is also key. One person told me she went into an elementary school teacher’s room during recess, and took checks from the teacher’s desk drawer.

          Anyway, there are various versions on these ruses, and quite frankly I don’t see how a “breakins” issue is recent or relevant, when that ‘problem’ extends from 2004 on and involves different neighborhoods even. The line sounds scripted. And then, no NW ID to show, just nothing? Beyond odd.

          Mind you, that’s just one perspective, from the ‘other side,’ if you will.

          PS I wear that hat like a badge, LOL!

    • Trained Observer says:

      SouthernGirl2 … this fits with a witness statement given by president of the R@TL HOA at the time of Trayvon’s murder who said he had taken office in fall, 2011. It’s on Axiom Amnesia.

      Anyway, this prexy was so vacant that he couldn’t remember names of the other two HOA board members, although he did mention they were both women.

      More specific to your links, is that the HOA honcho said he had never met or heard of “George” until he started getting numerous calls from unit owners reporting that some guy was going door to door trying to drum up support for a NW and askin all sorts of questions.

      My take: Amazingly ballsy for mere renter (as Fogen was) to take it upon himself to canvas resident owners for such an undertaking without clearing it with HOA first. .

      But this does fit with suspicions and theories presented by other Leatherman Law BLog members who think Fogen’s zeal for NW was part of a biz plan to launch a money-making security business.

      • Rachael says:

        With regard to “is that the HOA honcho said he had never met or heard of “George” until he started getting numerous calls from unit owners reporting that some guy was going door to door trying to drum up support for a NW and askin all sorts of questions.

        My take: Amazingly ballsy for mere renter (as Fogen was) to take it upon himself to canvas resident owners for such an undertaking without clearing it with HOA first.”

        I wonder if any of that will come up. I mean it just looks “suspicious” to me when residents are calling about some guy going door to door asking all sorts of questions – depending on what the questions were of course, but is that normal for starting up a NW?

      • whonoze says:

        Interesting he ‘couldn’t remember’ the names of the other HOA board members, since one of them is W11.

  10. Off-Topic, for the loser who made up a terrible blog about me.

    Hey, Nut Farm:

    1. Your site has been removed as a ‘phishing’ site.

    2. Good luck doxing for stuff that isn’t already in the public domain or at my own site.

    3. Hater sites are some of the Best. Marketing. Ever.!

    PS, Since I couldn’t visit your bogus site, tell me. This was a cheap shot at Fred Leatherman, wasn’t it. Yeah, thought so. Folks like you can’t man up and face the person you have a problem with, so you go after the wife.


  11. LLMPapa,

    Did you know your video Cardboard and Bullshit Part1 is on Benjamin Crump’s facebook page?

  12. SoulSistaWoo says:

    LLMPapa you are the Best!
    Knox OBVIOUSLY has not done his homework on your excellent work on this case….

    Thank you…

  13. KA says:

    Hey, can we send this guy’s book to “MythBusters”?

    Maybe the busting of his “myth” could be on national television.

  14. Dennis says:

    Frederick, does Fogen have to pay taxes on the money that was donated to him? And if so will the feds prosecute him for tax evasion for not giving them a cut of the blood money?

    • Jun says:

      racer says yeah

      And I think so too

      It is considered income because he is not a real charity

      He spent it like it was his income

      and he did not pay anyone who did his work so he cant write a lot of it off

      and it is way over the Gift Tax acceptable level, which is I believe $13,000, if he wants to claim they are gifts

    • Cercando Luce says:

      If I remember it right, any individual giving more than $13,000 has to file a Federal gift tax declaration to show that he is reducing the exempt amount of dollars that can pass free of estate tax at his death. Different states have their own gift tax returns as well. Gifts are not considered to be income to the recipient.

      If the money were sent to gz’s parents, and they in turn sent it to gz, they would be the ones required to file gift tax returns for amounts in excess of $26,000/year (because there’s 2 of them). This has nothing to do with the murder. I find it interesting because I myself am not sure that gz is legally the child of Robt Sr and Gladys, and wonder what conflicts might arise among the other children as a result of moneys transferred to gz all these years.

      • Rachael says:

        He may not be their child biologically, but I would be shocked if he wasn’t their child legally.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        Actually, biologically related kids can fight like dogs among themselves.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Like Rachael, I’d be shocked, too. So if Fogen’s not the bio disaster offspring of Gladys and Fogen Sr. , then what’s being suggested and by who? … That Fogen and RZ Jr. are flat out adopted? That they are bios of Gladys and adopted by Fogen Sr.
        Or what?

      • Cercando Luce says:

        I don’t know. There has been mention of g and r,jr being the children of Gladys’s sister. Ambiguous. But if r.,sr and gladys are transferring money to gz, that affects all the siblings.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Interesting possibilities from a family dysfunction perspective. Thanks.

  15. whonoze says:

    Michael Knox’s CV says he is ‘currently enrolled’ in the PhD program in Criminal Justice at Nova Southeastern University. Ever heard of that school? Me neither. So I Googled it. The school’s Criminal Justice program — you guessed it — exists only online. I looked at the bios of the faculty. Several have PhD’s… from Nova Southeastern University! Other have doctorates from ‘real schools’. but none of them seem to have any expertise in forensic science. The focus of the program seems to be on crisis intervention and negotiation, nothing relating directly to Knox line of work. If the school offers coursework in forensics, it must be taught by low paid adjuncts, who may well have inferior credentials to Knox himself.

    Mr. Knox does not seem to be very bright. I would guess that he simply neglected to consider the whole question of the alignment of the bullet holes between the garments and the body. he probably saw the info about the contact shot on the hoodie, and the ‘intermediate range’ wound on the body with the stippling etc., and Bingo came up with hios conclusion without taking the time to consider all the other factors.

    So far, not so good, but he only made matters worse with his condescending, muddled and ultimately bogus response to LLMPapa. Instead of admitting his mistake and minimizing the consequences (e.g. ‘Yes, i did fail to consider that so other interpretations may be plausible as well.’) he dug himself deeper into a hole by doubling down on his assertion, and getting all snotty about it. And he still didn’t do the obvious research, like checking the bullet trajectory through the left ventricle. So now he’s got not only a deeply flawed interpretation in his book, but an even more flawed attempt to back it up on his website. Which article, you’ll be shocked, shocked to hear, has had comments closed since Monday afternoon ( a gutlessness tantamount to throwing in the towel, IMHO)..

    If this guy’s reputation survives this fiasco, there is no justice. Well, he’s from Florida, so maybe he counts on getting work from people who are either dumber or loopier than he is.

    • Trained Observer says:

      NSU has a brick and mortar campus (btw with a law school) in western Broward County, Florida, north of Miami. It has extensive corporate ties for online study with blue chip companies known globally. Think American Express, which has a history of underwriting tuition for its employees to attend.

      Pure speculation, but am wondering if Knox is trying to use his “work” on this project in conjunction with a thesis.

    • Trained Observer says:

      And for what it’s worth for you grid fans … NSU is home of the Miami Dolphin Training Facilities.

    • Oh, this is fabulous. And it keeps getting better!

      • jm says:

        Just wondered if he is selling his book?

      • Trained Observer says:

        Amazon has a handful of reviews, most positive, although one reviewer seems to have his number.

        I, for one, wouldn’t spend a dime on his book, not caring about (or understanding) its mumbo-jumbo on trajectories, fabric sag and such.

        For me, Trayvon is dead because Fogen stalked and shot him in cold blood, and I didn’t need a slide-rule or proportion wheel to figure that out.

        However, those of you truly knowledgable about flaws in “Knox Think” and contents of his book might want to go on Amazon and set other prospective buyers straight.

        • Won’t be me. I have seen enough lying under oath on the stand from forensics and lab analyst hacks to last me forever. I don’t trust them, unless they can prove otherwise. So far, he hasn’t.

      • If Knox had a brain in his head, he would STFU.

        But no, he has to prove he’s just as stupid as the defendant.

    • Malisha says:

      dumber or loopier — or just racist and “on somebody’s side”

    • Leelee says:

      Great post Whonoze !

      Knox :
      “LLMPapa’s bullet hole misalignment theory is, well, full of holes. To understand where he went wrong, let’s start with the measurements–the ones he references in his video (“Cardboard and Bullshit, Part Two”).”

      It is one thing to have a differing opinion but Knox responds to Papa’s video by accusing Papa of faulty measurements when in fact Knox is the one who has the measurements WRONG. This is basic stuff, not an opinion. Knox does not even get the simplest , most basic stuff right. His argument against Papa is based on faulty data….YIKES !

      Knox’s “photogrammetry” is seriously flawed. Knox measured the mannequin’s head as being 12.6 inches when in fact it is 10.5 inches.

      I’ll take a good old fashioned school-boy ruler any day over Knox’s flawed “photogrammetry” ruler. If in a short distance of 10.5 inches Knox can be off by 2.6 inches, I can only imagine that in any one of his aerial photograph measurements for his clients he could be off by MILES.

      Anyone who has ever used Knox’s forensic services in the past might want to consider applying for a refund.

      Mr. Knox the only thing full of holes is your head.

    • NEF05 says:

      Nova Southeastern, eh? (In my best “SNL churchlady” voice), isn’t that interesting? Guess who’s an adjunct law professor at Nova?

      “Ken Padowitz-http://www.lauderdalecriminaldefense.com/

      kpadowitz@gmail.com(from public site – no doxing. I even deleted the phone#)

      23 yrs of Legal Experience – Former Homicide Prosecutor

      Legal Expertise that National Networks Depend
      (Think this guy would hesitate a minute to shred such an obvious bogus claim, with Papa’s clear rebuttal paving the way?)

      Awarded an “AV” Attorney (Highest rating), by Martindale-Hubbell. Florida Trends Legal Elite 2009
      Adjunct Law Professor – 17 years with Nova Southeastern University
      Tremendous Trial Experience- Litigated over 250 jury trials & 35 First Degree Murder Trials
      Found Qualified by Broward Judicial Nominating Committee for Circuit Judge
      National TV Legal Reference: ABC, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, Court TV & more… “( and as perspicacious as our professor, when it comes to 1st degree felonies)

      Yep, the SAME Padowitz (17 yr. former homicide prosecutor for Broward County, FL) who called the SPD investigation a “Mickey Mouse Operation” on National TV from the beginning. Who outted Wolfinger’s plan to not process booking, so the”investigation” could run out the 180 day clock from “arrest” to “charging”.

      Here’s why:

      It is important to note that the State Attorney’s office has the sole discretion to decide
      whether to file formal charges against you. Even if witnesses do not want to testify against you
      or they want to stop the case, the State Attorney may still press forward on the charges. The law
      of the State of Florida gives the State Attorney this type of discretion and they can subpoena
      these witnesses to come to court even if they should indicate that they do not want to.
      Nevertheless, the prosecutor must file formal charges within 180 days of your arrest. Otherwise,
      the State Attorney is forbidden from pursuing charges against you after the expiration of that


      As Padowitz stated (with 17 yrs Broward County Homidice prosecution) “There is no such thing as “unarrest”. He was de facto arrested the minute he was handcuffed, placed in the car, given Miranda, and taken to the station.

      The fact that this man, specializing in judging forensics like our own professor, speaks volumes. As the Prof said, STFU is Knox’s best option. Having your methodology outed as biased for profit may well cost him more that just a “semester”. IJS!

      Knox has indeed fallen past the event horizon/black hole the professor mentioned. IMHO – MANY will go down because of this case, all to protect fogen. Pffffftttttttt!!!!!!

  16. amsterdam1234 says:

    Knox is receiving tips from a GZ supporter, who is on the trail of a new conspiracy;
    There are 2 dummies, and he can proof it.

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      Don’t know what went wrong, but I”ll try it again.

      • When is an inch “bigger” than an inch? When you’re Michael Knox!

        Michael A. Knox ‏@KnoxForensics
        @NeonAndRaven23 @LLMSPapa A bigger ruler that shows his measurements are wrong. He doesn’t know what he’s doing.
        View conversation Reply Retweet Favorite More


      • Rachael says:

        That reminds me of a joke that is not appropriate here. Hahahahaha

      • towerflower says:

        I’m not surprised that some men get their inches wrong. 😉

      • Tzar says:

        Crane-Station says:
        March 6, 2013 at 9:37 am

        When is an inch “bigger” than an inch? When you’re Michael Knox!

        Michael A. Knox ‏@KnoxForensics
        @NeonAndRaven23 @LLMSPapa A bigger ruler that shows his measurements are wrong. He doesn’t know what he’s doing.
        View conversation Reply Retweet Favorite More


        what the bloodclot is wrong with that guy?

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        Inches are shorter when measured with photogrammetry.

      • Malisha says:

        Crane-Station: In answer to your question: “When is an inch bigger than an inch?”

        Here’s when: When you’re interviewing Knox’s wife/partner/girlfriend on some subject on which SHE is an expert.

      • NEF05 says:

        @C-S and Rachael –
        I was totally there with your responses, but since Mrs. Prof Leatherman is a respectable married lady, I refrained.

        I DID have “coffee out the nose” as she put it,previously, though… 🙂

    • LLMPapa says:

      LOL, Riiight….this was forwarded to him 2 days ago and again last night after that Tweet.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        I was rofl when I read that one. Two Dee Dees and two dummies. Coincidence?

        I saw that photo. Didn’t Knox start demanding from you that you stop stretching that shirt after that picture started making its rounds?

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        When can we expect the next episode? I can’t wait to see it.

      • LLMPapa says:

        LOL, I’m working on it now. Obviously got sidetracked a bit with this bs, but should be finished by the weekend. I was gonna do 2 more, but am probably gonna consolidate the 2 drafts into 1.

        Be finished soon as I figure out which of the 2 dummies I wanna use, ROFL!

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        That should be the knock-out punch. After that one, no matter how hard you pull Knox’s finger, I think he won’t be expelling hot air anymore.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        You can also point to the location of the blood distribution on the bottom shirt. It is below and to the right of the hole. The center of that spot appears to be on top of the gunshot wound on the chest. Whatever caused the downward pull, it stopped exerting its influence, the moment the shot was fired.

      • amsterdam1234 says:


        I think this clip is very relevant. Maybe you can do something with it.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        Wrong video. I meant this one.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        Damn, don’t know why it gave me this link.
        It is this one.

      • SpecialladyT says:

        HI Papa… Looks like you are becoming “famous”.. well, we think so anyways.. xo

        I am not going to give this other Zidiot floor time.. Have at him if you so choose. 😉

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          It’s easy to simply sit in a chair and sprout alternative nonsense. Knox would like you to believe, for example, that the ME would not swab TM’s hands if there was an indication of trace on them. Body fluids don’t dry perfectly clear, but they actually leave stains, sheens and other indications of being there. Not to mention that Trayvon’s hands would be expected to show signs of damage if they had been used as described. Knox wants you to believe that forensics only work one way, in Fogen’s favor or not at all.

          Anyway, good luck to the defense in trying to put any of Knox’s tripe before the jury, since the foundation simply doesn’t exist. The only way to create the needed foundation, is to put GZ on the stand which is silly since that means they’ll lose the case, no matter what the forensics show.

          We already have LLMPapa’s take on “skipping”, now we wonder what Mr. Knox’s “learned” position is on a child skipping away, minutes before doubling back to kill an adult with his bare hands?

          • SpecialladyT says:

            Lonnie, you don’t have to sell me on this.. I was merely passing along a ridiculous video to Papa.. 😉

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Oh I know that, but there are people from “over there” who come here to read, so I wrote to ensure that the gaps were well covered. There will probably be more, trying to break in here and disrupt things, now that they’ve lost their home.

          • SpecialladyT says:

            lolol… okay.. just making sure.. 😀

            Who lost their home? Are you speaking of the nutters? I read they have a private thread now.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            The change from public view to private is a downgrade for their purposes of advertising their wares. I’m pretty sure they aren’t happy with the change.

    • KA says:

      This is priceless.

      His assumptions took into consideration that he believed Z’s narrative. He made his “facts” fit his belief.

      Not really good form for scientific research.

    • He’s apt to get faced again. With a dueling-dummies video.

      With “flat” shirts.


    • Rachael says:

      “Video shows flesh colored one at ~1 min”

      Uh oh, see, there is your problem LLMPapa. Your calculations have to be all wrong because you didn’t use a dummy that “looks bahlaack.”

  17. amsterdam1234 says:

    The tweets are hilarious. Knox is making an absolute fool of himself. With every new tweet explaining why LLMPapa got it wrong, things get worse.

    Now people are tweeting his Avatar with the remark “pull my finger”

    • Jun says:

      I told him to put his money where his mouth is, and that I would bet him money, and, I also called him a phony and asked him if his two white tshirts and cardboard were biofidelic LOL

    • blushedbrown says:



    • Think he’ll keep on digging, if we tweet him a shovel?

      Wait. He wants to meet LLMPapa?

      *coffee out the nose*

      • Xena says:


        Wait. He wants to meet LLMPapa?

        This weekend, I received notice and material of an ongoing doxing effort by Zidiots. The instigation with Knox is simply part of that effort. They are pimping out Knox and he had better become aware of that so as not to be a part of it.

        • Wow, this doxing thing. I got a heads-up this morning that yet another site went up (about me, apparently, but the site is dead), and the thing is, I am of no use to the defense.

          I ain’t the one today. Sorry, doxers! My dark and dirty past won’t help somebody’s Florida murder trial!

          • Xena says:


            Wow, this doxing thing. I got a heads-up this morning that yet another site went up (about me, apparently, but the site is dead), and the thing is, I am of no use to the defense.

            Yeah, those dead sites are setup to get the word to their victims. If someone doesn’t tell you, you won’t know about it. Anyone reading them is more than likely to think “Who cares?” The more filth they do, the worst they make GZ look.

          • Very strange, this stuff is all new to me. Dead sites. Wow.

    • Tzar says:

      He is starting to sound a bit like junior

  18. Not Angela Lansbury says:

    The problem with Knox’s analysis is that it assumes its own conclusion, a serious logical fallacy. It’s like assuming the distance between two points is 3 feet and then calculating the distance between those two points. Want to take a guess at the answer? Want to guess the probability of being correct?

    Here’s the meat of his argument: “But here’s the problem: if the entrance wound was three to four inches below the holes in the garments and, simultaneously, 17.5 inches below the top of the head, then the vertical distance from the top of Martin’s head to the top if [sic] his shoulder was only 7.5 to 8.5 inches. If that were the case, he would have looked like Beetlejuice with a shrunken head.” http://knoxforensics.blogspot.com/2013/03/llmpapas-bullet-hole-misalignment.html

    First, there’s a straightforward 1-inch calculation error there. If the entrance wound was 3-4 inches below the garment holes (as LLMPapa argues) and, simultaneously, 17.5 inches below the top of Trayvon’s head (as the ME measured), then the vertical distance between the top of Trayvon’s head and the garment holes is 13.5-14.5 inches (assuming the top of Trayvon’s shoulder is aligned with the shoulder seams on the garments). And if the garment holes were 7 inches below the shoulder seams (as the forensic tech measured), then the vertical distance between the top of Trayvon’s head to the top of his shoulder is 6.5-7.5 inches (again assuming the top of Trayvon’s shoulder is aligned with the shoulder seams on the garments), not the 7.5-8.5 inches Knox calculated. So he’s off an inch, fine.

    But do you see the problem here? The second and much more humiliating error is that he assumes the top of Trayvon’s shoulder is aligned with the shoulder seams on the garments, and then concludes they are aligned. Great work if you can get it! Because if they are misaligned (ie, the shoulder seams are 3-4 inches below the top of Trayvon’s shoulder at the time the gun is fired), as LLMPapa has shown, then Knox’s assumption (and thus conclusion) is incorrect. This misalignment also adds 3-4 inches to Knox’s calculation of the vertical distance between the top of Trayvon’s head to the top of his shoulders, giving the proper length of 9.5-10.5 inches, as LLMPapa measured.

    So basically, Knox assumed his own conclusion, while LLMPapa used actual measurements from the publicly available discovery to conclude otherwise and more accurately that a 3-4 inch misalignment exists between the bullet holes in Trayvon’s garments and the entry wound. Time for some continuing ed classes for Knox (at the LLMPapa School of Forensic Science)!

    • Not Angela Lansbury says:


    • LLMPapa says:

      Your analysis is completely correct.

      Thank You.

      • Not Angela Lansbury says:

        There’s a slight error in the next to last paragraph: “This misalignment also adds 3-4 inches to Knox’s calculation of the vertical distance between the top of Trayvon’s head to the top of his shoulders, giving the proper length of 9.5-10.5 inches, as LLMPapa measured.” Should be 9.5-11.5 inches, which puts the 10.5 inches you measured right in the middle.

        I’m grateful for your work.

      • Not Angela Lansbury says:

        So Knox has removed the offending blog post but has continued the discussion on his May 18th post at http://knoxforensics.blogspot.com/2012/05/so-what-happened-to-hoodie.html. He makes a much simpler case, to wit: If the distance from top of head to entry wound is 17.5″ (per the ME), and the distance from top of head to top of shoulder is 10.5″ (per normal male and Papa’s Response at 0:40), then the distance from top of shoulder to entry wound must be exactly 7″. That’s where the bullet holes in the garments are located, so there is no misalignment.

        I can’t find his error here, but I hope you can. Thanks again for your work.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Notice that Knox doesn’t want to use the measurements that the ME gave him? The garments are removed, laid flat and then the measurements are taken relative to the seams.

          This is because, if the garments are draped on the body, the curvature of the torso raises every location on the garment. So, by taking the 7 inch down measurement, and using those 7 inches as if they represent the distance down, with a body in the garment, presto, he makes the holes seem to align. because he’s eliminated the material that gets taken up by filling the garment with a body.

          He’s merely a master of confusion nothing more. If he follows the instructions given in the autopsy report and locates the holes in the garments where indicated, the locates the wound where indicated, then puts the garments on the body, the holes do not line up with the wound. Simple. There’s no need for a head to neck, neck to wound measurement. Anyone who tries to introduce or use measurements not listed in the autopsy report is trying to fool someone.

      • Not Angela Lansbury says:

        @Lonnie That’s an interesting point, but the 7″ distance for the garment holes was measured from the shoulder *seam*, which lies at the front of the shoulder, not at the top. So there’s already some “play” there that would take an actual shoulder’s distortion into account. Even if it didn’t, that distortion can’t explain a 4″ vertical misalignment.

        What Knox has shown, I think, is that the entry wound is 7″ below the top of the shoulder. For a 4″ misalignment to be real, the garment holes need to be no more than 3″ down from the front of the shoulder.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Nope… To put it simply, if the garment is pulled down and to the left and held there when the shot is taken, when it’s released it will rise back up taking the holes above and away from the wound.

          You don’t try to measure the location of the holes in the garments with a body inside them. You lay them flat. So, if the hole is 7″ below the shoulder seam when the garment is laid flat. When the garment is put on a body, the garment will arc outward from the shoulder so that the hole 7″ down, will now be only 3 inches down because of the material taken up by the arc.

          Stretching a sweatshirt and a hoodie 4″ or so, requires a pretty strong pull on it. GZ could not have been treating Trayvon gently at all.

      • Not Angela Lansbury says:

        @Lonnie Starr: Thanks again for another thoughtful response.

        “You don’t try to measure the location of the holes in the garments with a body inside them. You lay them flat.” Agreed, and both LLMPapa and the GSR tech did this, finding/placing the top of the garment holes at 7″ below the shoulder seam.

        “So, if the hole is 7″ below the shoulder seam when the garment is laid flat. When the garment is put on a body, the garment will arc outward from the shoulder so that the hole 7″ down, will now be only 3 inches down because of the material taken up by the arc.” In Papa’s Response at 0:45, 0:50, 1:08, then at 2:28, 2:33, 2:38, LLMPapa shows this to be incorrect.

        I responded more fully at

        Let’s continue the dialogue over there to avoid duplication.

      • Not Angela Lansbury says:

        @Lonnie Starr I have retracted the comment above at http://frederickleatherman.com/2013/03/08/llmpapas-video-cardboard-and-bullshit-part-iv/#comment-86911

        You may be right. If LLMPapa would kindly treat us to one more measurement, we’ll know for sure.

        Would you mind, LLMPapa? May we have the vertical distance from the top of the mannequin’s shoulder to the top of the red dot representing the garment holes? TIA.

      • SpecialladyT says:

        HI Papa… Looks like you are becoming “famous”.. well, we think so anyways.. xo

        I am not going to give this Zidiot floort ime.. Have at him if you so choose. 😉

    • NEF05 says:

      But do you see the problem here?

      Yep, in a nutshell, it’s confirmation bias. As you say(and Papa & the Professor concur) he’s working backward from a conclusion he’s already determined.

    • leander22 says:

      Very good comment “not Angela Lansburg”, interesting handle by the way. This link will make it into my Knox link collection, I have to save that. In case I will ever return to Knox.

      Besides: presupposing specific conclusions, could stand for his whole book. If anything doesn’t fit his argument or his diverse principles, he simply leaves it out, besides filling much space with GZ’s narrative and/or bending his “scientific methods” to fit the tale.That’s exactly what he did here too.

      Considering his apparent bias against “netizens/webizens” and/or bloggers, also apparent from his book, I think one can safely assume that that to him LLMPapa must have been wrong simply for for belonging to this anonymous group of untrustworthy people an web.

      What I am still wondering about is, why he so conveniently forgot about his two options from May, 2012

      either (1) the clothing was being pulled away from Martin’s body (presumably by George Zimmerman) or (2) Martin was on top of Zimmerman, chest downward, with his clothes hanging due to gravity.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Yeah and give that guy a schoolboy ruler!

  19. Jun says:

    Benjamin “Justice 4 Trayvon” Crump · 252 like this
    21 minutes ago ·
    I will clarify what transpired, in case people missed the hearing, and you can check it out online on youtube. Use a reputable source to watch it so it is authentic.

    1) Deedee told Crump she was in shock and did not feel well, therefore was unable to attend a wake. She said she went to a hospital or had to get medical attention and then the recording is unclear what she says.

    2) Deedee tells Bernie, when Bernie asks if she went to the wake or funeral, that she wanted to go. Bernie asks why she could not make it. She tells him she felt ill because of the killing. Bernie asks if she went to the hospital or “somewhere”. Deedee says mmm yeah, I had high blood pressure. (Note West, W8 never claimed to be hospitalized)

    3) West twists what the state told the defense into claiming that the state said that she lied about going to the hospital and not attending the wake. The state simply stated to them and the court that there will be no medical records, to take her deposition, it is moot, and then if they want to bring up medical records of her after her deposition, they can have a hearing on that issue.

    4) Judge agrees with the state and asks the defense to simply depose witness 8 and if medical records are necessary then they can bring it up at another hearing. My guess is she means to speak to witness 8 and clarify before making assumptions.

    5) West continues accusing her of lying with no proof and asks when the state found out.

    6) Guy again tells them to depose witness 8 and it is not necessary to get her medical records. Just depose witness 8 and if medical records are deemed necessary, then they can have a hearing on that issue.

    7) Nelson tells the defense to depose witness 8, and if there is anything different from her original testimonies, then they can bring up the issues, as well as the medical records they seek, if it is deemed necessary after her deposition, and then they can depose her strictly on the medical records thereafter. I think Nelson was just showing witness 8 respect, so that she can decide what she is willing to give to the defense.

    8) West continues accusing with no proof or confirmation from the state about lying. Guy stated that there will be no medical records, just depose her, and then perhaps we can talk about medical records. Guy is basically saying to let the witness 8 decide if she wants to discuss giving out her medical records.

    9) Nelson decides the issue is moot and dismisses it without prejudice

    10) West asks for witness 8’s address. Nelson tells him again to depose witness 8 and get the information straight from her in a deposition.

    That is basically it. I summarized it, but watch it for yourself, and decide. IMO, the state is just giving the witness the right to give what she wants to the defense. Only the defense is alleging she is lying but keeps refusing to depose her and than making up things.

    • elcymoo says:

      That was pretty much the way I heard it, too, Jun.

      The Christian Science Monitor has an article that I found to be even more skewed than most others. Now, i didn’t watch any of the post-hearing discussions with reporters, but I find it hard to believe that the prosecution team was ‘bewildered’ by the defense team’s decision to abandon an immunity hearing in April. Did anyone else hear them say so?

      At any rate, I fired off an e-mail to the Monitor’s reporter, Patrik Jonnson, concerning his statements about the defense team’s digging into TM’s social media history, Witness 8’s age, and the incorrect claim that she’d said she couldn’t attend the funeral because of a ‘hospital stay’. I’ll report back if and when I receive a response.


      • KA says:

        I saw that too…disgraceful.

      • ay2z says:

        elcymoo says:
        March 6, 2013 at 2:12 am

        … Now, i didn’t watch any of the post-hearing discussions with reporters, but I find it hard to believe that the prosecution team was ‘bewildered’ by the defense team’s decision to abandon an immunity hearing in April. Did anyone else hear them say so?

        Watch the post hearing news conference, BDLR was there listening to what MOM said about the immunity hearing and made a comment why he was there. I can’t remember the word he used.

    • Tzar says:

      Thank you Jun!!!!

    • NEF05 says:

      I will. I’m bogged down with the flu right now so I’m behind, but your summary makes a lot of sense, since I’m usually on the same page wtih you anyway. Though it is for everyone, and not just me – I thank you for taking the time out to summarize for those who couldn’t see it. Thanks! Much Appreciated!

  20. towerflower says:

    LLMPapa, Congrats again on another excellent video and way to shut down the media found “expert” who is only interested in selling a few books. Bet he never tweets about it again.

  21. Trained Observer says:

    If Fogen wants a jury of his peers, as MOM noted at the post-hearing presser, where are they going to round up six skunks?

    FYI, note even the NYT has latched on to West’s “she lied.”


    • ay2z says:

      Dammit, they have NOT DEPOSED this young woman yet, and they are stringing this out as far as they can before they do, and possibly get clarification on what she actually did, actually meant, or whether she was trying to decieve purposefully. She was upset and nervous, as noted by BDLR in his interview.

      It’s possible she didn’t want to explain or didn’t think about explaining herself.

      Depose this witness before going to national news.

      • Tee says:

        She simply didn’t want to be identified nothing more nothing less. Of course she didn’t want anyone to know if she was at the funeral or the wake it would have been a matter of time before they had her identity posted for all the world to see and for some to harass. If she had to do it again, and I was her mom I would tell her to keep her being at either to herself.

    • KA says:

      Even the Huffington Post said it….it is reported everywhere EXACTLY the way the defense planned it. They say it, it makes headlines regardless of merit.

    • Jun says:

      Actually read it

      They simply stated that the state said there were no medical records and that West was the one that asserted that she lied

      They need to just depose her and get it over with to clarify everything because all we have is hearsay from West

      The fact remains she was on the phone with Trayvon

      Even mathematically speaking, if they want to say she lied, well, so is Fogenhats and that will come out at trial and it is vastly more important that Fogenhats is not a liar over Deedee

      • KA says:

        I agree. I cannot believe they have not deposed her yet….I think if they thought she had many secrets, they would have rushed to do it so they could release it for their fundraising games…the fact they have not, yet claim to have slam dunks, is telling.

  22. degraveegmailcom says:


  23. Don’t know why….Maybe ask Alice

    MMP / CP Out

  24. Leelee says:

    KNOX might want to consider a re-write of his article : Physical Evidence Never Lies


    Excerpt :
    “While physical evidence never lies, poor analysis of physical evidence can be misleading. So what qualifies a person to analyze physical evidence? Two things: education and experience.

    “If you search deep enough, however, you will find that there are a few of us out there that have both the education and the experience. This is the level of expertise you will find at Knox & Associates.”

    • Jun says:

      Apparently according to him tshirts that are white and cardboard shot at while standing are representative of gravity and biofidelic LMAO

    • ay2z says:

      Leelee says:
      March 5, 2013 at 11:31 pm
      KNOX might want to consider a re-write of his article : Physical Evidence Never Lies

      Trust me… he says, the physical evidence can’t lie, but I can make faulty assumptions, or forget to put in the correct units, or do my math wrong, or not account for another physical phenomenon at work that needs to be taken into consideration, but I DON”T LIE because physical evidence never lies.

      (now where is that recording of ‘evil snicker’…..)

      • ay2z says:

        hehe,,,, Knox has a BS degree!

      • ay2z says:

        That was a bit of late night humor, Knox does have a full CV complete with science degrees.

        One of his peer reviewed articles would make an interesting read for this case, and he could be qualified to review our own Papa’s short, simplified, clear, video illustration on the same subject.

        Knox, Michael A. “Forensic Engineering Analysis of Ejected Cartridge Case Patterns for the
        Reconstruction of Firearms-Related Incidents.” Proceedings of the ASME 2012 International
        Mechanical Engineering Congress & Exposition. November 9-15, 2012, Houston, Texas. New York:
        American Society of Mechanical Engineers, 2012.

    • ay2z says:

      Hang on, someone know if the “Proceedings” of the ASME 2012 InternationalMechanical Engineering Congress & Exposition is actually peer reiviewed before publication? How is this possible? Peer reviewed meaning the paper was presented at the ASME meeting with peers in the room?

      That’s not what ‘peer review’ means, is it? All the meeting’s papers would be published in ‘Proceedings’, doesn’t mean they have been scrutinized and peer reviewed prior to being ‘selected’ for publication. Just give a paper and you’re in.

  25. ChrisNY~Laurie says:

    I’m so glad I decided to check in before going to bed. I’ve been anxiously awaiting for Papa’s next video to put Knox in his place. Outstanding!

  26. ay2z says:

    This is off topic, but what they heck is that MOM tie all about? Purple Paisley, a message to the Irish jury pool prospects? A signature to remember him by while he’s in the spotlight?
    Or an obsession with Mandelbrot sets?

  27. ay2z says:

    Hey, can photogammetry fix the fish-eye cell phone lens distortion of a certain photo? 😉

  28. ay2z says:

    Photogametry? Or simple school ruler? Experts of course sound more expert with complicated sounding scientific words and explanations to befuddle and astonish from the stand.

    Occam’s Razor, forest for the trees. Does the expert even realize that Papa hasn’t talked angles yet?

    • Nope, he’s still trying to figure out where the heart is.

      • NEF05 says:

        Oh Geeze! Has he been retained for the defense’s “expert”, yet? I promise the MINUTE they do, I’m starting an internet/writing campaign to the prosecution for LLMPapa as a rebuttal witness. I’d start one before then, but I don’t know what they could use to admit his info, as 3rd party, since I don’t know his bona fides, except the only ones that matter – he is ALWAYS Spot On!

  29. groans says:

    @Professor: I just went back to the top and watched your “Clapping” video. It is TERRIFIC !! I actually found myself grabbing a cigarette lighter and holding it in the air while shouting “Encore” !!

    (Thankfully no one was here to witness that.)


    • groans says:

      I can’t NOT dance, listening to this! I will play this in my head every time I tackle my kitchen floor!

      But Papa’s been doin’ the moppin’ tonight!

  30. groans says:

    OMG!!! OMG!!! OMG!!! ROFLMAO!!!

    Just when I think you’ve done your best work … YOU KEEP TOPPING IT !!!

    When I heard that smashing glass, I reflexively started singing along with Billy. But then when I caught on to how utterly PERFECT the music was for your message, and how utterly PERFECT your flipping images fit both, and how it ALL was put together in your very logical and clear way – with a huge dose of humor to boot … All I can say is I am IN AWE.

    Truly AWESOME! ((((((standing ovation))))))

    Please, PLEASE, all of you among us who twitter – spread this to everyone (however it is that you all do that) !!! Put that six degrees of separation to work for Justice For Trayvon!

    (I just HAD to re-post this one … I’m way behind you all.)

  31. esentrick says:

    Bwahaaa!!!!! Papa ripped knox a new one! Bwahaaa

  32. colin black says:

    Rulers unlike those mental metal measure tapes that men.
    Love to see how far they can get that sucker out before it collapses.
    Or measure tapes that tailors use are also plyable.

    So every Police Force in the world has a collection of RULLERS 12 ins one foot.
    They even file of the millimetre or so extra that is spare space on each end of ruler.

    To ensure its one ft exact an thease are placed with in crime scene evidence to show scale.

    So mrexpert are you willing to riddicule the Plice world wide for there use of rulers to show scale.
    You had no problem mocking LLMPappa for his use of a ruler for a tool.

    A Man you have never met an has more knowlage of the facts an truths an lies surrrounding this Childs MURDER.
    He has more insight into that night events an whom did what to whom said what to whom ect.

    In one tiny cell of skin fluffed of his hand.
    The minute contact dna youd at least expect to find on Trayvon after pummeling your clients head on the concrete.
    An smothering his bloody nose an mouth with his hands
    Yeah all that dna that would be present on Trayvons hands clothes finger nail scrapeings.

    But no not one tiny single skin cell.

    An if LLMPappa fluffed of one single skin cell it would contain more knowlage of this Tragedy where a misscreant no good went rouge postal on an unarmed defencless kid.

    Than you have in your entire body.
    Wich wouldnt be hard as you no zilch.
    An are calling foggen incosistant re he movements.
    But choose to beleive certain parts as gospel if it supports your whakaddodle crazyforcocopos theory.

    For Shame you whore.
    No I take that back at least whores perform a service.
    Your just a waste os space.

  33. kllypyn says:

    I apologize in advance for profanity. Knox you are incompetent and full of shit.

  34. NEF05 says:

    If the non-sign of Immunity is not warning to get out, I don’t know what is. She*Lie is certainly no Bey, but if she doesn’t give fogen Bey’s Lyrics, I’m personally collecting her “woman card”!

    I am alone at a crossroads.
    I’m not at home, in my own home
    And I try and try, to say what’s on my mind.

    And now I’ve got to find my own………..MY OWN.

  35. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Great video, LLMPapa! All your videos make good use of the evidence to trap gz in his lies.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Keep throwing that sand, LLMPapa! 🙂

    • towerflower says:

      Doodle bugs……used to mess with them as a kid, dropping bits of sand to see if one was in the hole.

    • OMG I didn’t know it was a spider!!
      thank god I heard some the guy say so. i coulda hurt myself if one of those things jumped out at me!

      i turned it off at 1:16.

      please, have pity on me, i know i’m not normal but, PLEASE put a warning on anything to do with *THOSE* monsters! i;m really scared of even a picture of them.

      welp, good night, off to have my freakin nightmares now!!!!!
      thanks YAHTC 😉

  36. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Great video, LLMPapa! All your videos make good use of the evidence to trap gz in his lies.


    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Oops! That happened because I had just posted your video to the NBC article.
      Now I will try again.

  37. bettykath says:

    Excellent job, LLMpapa!

  38. William Walton says:

    Prof: I liked the “Photogrammetry my Ass.” What should be considered in this dynamic case is Vector Analysis. In this case a tertiary vector analysis would be involved.
    A. Vector 1: TM pulling away from GZ while trying to flee.
    B. Vector 2: GZ holding on to TM and pulling TM towards him while TM is trying to flee.
    C. Vector 3. The force of the bullet entering TM’s body.
    Thus, three vectors must be analyzed as well as three vector angles. It would be interesting if someone could come up with an Algorithm in order to develop a computer program to similate a dynamic situation like occurred during the murder of TM. Hopefully, such a program exists in the world of forensics. This whole scenario is easy for me to see since I work with oil and gas wells which are dynamic when being observed and tested. Normally they do not exist in a static state when producing but continue to throw at you whatever they are producing. One learns to cope. In addition, I am involved with an oil producer who has told me that he never acidized this particular well. Based on chemical analysis of the produced water, the decrease in pH states that the well was acidized. This was in addition to other chemical analytical data showing that the well was acidized. When confronted with the data, his comment was “I do not lie, the well was not acidized, I am not a liar.” I thought I was talking to Tricky Dick Nixon. So, as an Attorney, don’t feel like the Lone Ranger.

  39. Jun says:

    I found a contradiction in Omara’s claims

    He claimed that he got 30 Grand donated recently

    then in court today, they proclaimed they were broke and out of time


    • tonydphotog says:

      I was thinking the same thing.

    • Lynn says:

      In the press conference afterwards he stated that 25, MAYBE 30 thousand cam in and had since gone back out for experts and other legal expenses. I hope he gave some of that to Knox.

  40. colin black says:

    If the State were desprate enough to hire a self pro claimed expert like Knox.
    And self recomendation = no recomendation.And were willing to offer him 500 above what foggens team were willing to pay him.

    He would have a compleat turnaround in his hypothisis on how events occoured.
    It would be foggen the aggreor fogen the one in dominant position.
    Likes o him are just prostitutes to highest bidder.

    Knox is soon to be schooled not only by B D L R an his team of experts.
    But also schooled in the school of hard knox.

    Because if he ever expects to receive a wage packet from foggens mob.
    Then he is as dumb as he sounds.

    • Jun says:

      LMAO didn’t Fogen stiff his present and past lawyers, his landlord, the security team, his creditors, that kid he accused of stealing a bike, etc?

      I think it is safe to say even if they hired him, Fogen would not pay him LMAO

    • KA says:

      I would love it if the defense hired him. If a layperson can so easily make him look foolish…I cannot imagine the damage that will be done in court on cross examination.

  41. Malisha says:

    You know, I’m getting the idea that we need to be embarrassed because it was so EASY to beat up on Knox. I’d like to dub some really funny words into his “roundy-handy video” but I don’t know how to do it. Or I’d like to take the “Hitler in the Bunker” clip and put in words of Knox having a fit because he can’t measure a shirt and he won’t be getting a job in the prison sew-shop.

  42. LMAO!

    Rock it on out, LLMPapa! See, that’s how Papa rolls, Mr. Knox!

  43. Franklin’s Tower

    You Better Roll Away the Dew

  44. Jun says:

    I heard Nuns back in the day would whip your culo if you acted out of order

    I think you need to lend your ruler to Sister Cunningham LOL

  45. Oh, I think Knox is glorious. I could listen to him for hours. I hope the defense hires him!


  46. racerrodig says:

    Where did this guy slither out from ?? He’s getting owned.

    • Xena says:

      Now that he was baited by Zidiots to instigate a fight with LLMPapa, Knox is probably licking his wounds wishing he had never opened his fonts.

    • Right about now, Mr. Forensic Scientist must be looking for a place to hide.

      Oh man, did he get owned.


      Photogrammetry, my ass!

      • LLMPapa says:

        LOL, thinking bout packing up the mannequin, along with a new size Large Nike s/shirt and a new size Large Fruit of The Loom hoodie and sending it to my new pal.

        See if he’d like to show me how it’s done.

        Hell, I’ll even throw in a new Home Depot yardstick! LOL LOL LOL

        • Xena says:

          LOL@LLMPapa. Make sure you include a copy of the Medical Examiner’s report and also, put descriptive labels on everything, such as “This is the head.” “This is a sweatshirt.” “This is a hoodie.” “This is a seam.” “The human heart is located about here.”

      • SpecialladyT says:

        Papa, you are truly the best!

        I’ll send you the shipping cost for the package you send to Knox. I will include a bow too!

      • @LLMPapa

        **scores**—-> Swish! Nothing but net!

      • Tzar says:

        but but he used a fancy word like photogrammetry….

      • Leelee says:

        EXACTLY !!!!!!!!!!!

      • leander22 says:

        Photogrammetry, my ass!

        Professor, strictly I checked if there were precise body measurements in the autopsy report, and as much else they are missing.

        Absent that yes, to get at the proportions of head, neck, torso, legs photos come immediately to mind. The problem is that he now managed to make us very, very suspicious of the method. Besides the human body does not seem to belong into the realm of standard applications. At least on first sight.

        No doubt the producers of mannequins build them based on some type of ideal aesthetic, artistic proportions. On the other hand if the differences were so vast, we wouldn’t be able to buy clothes of the peg. … children cloth over here, if they do not apply the American S, M, L, XL…, system use body size.

        LLMPapa, I am very, very suspicious of this guy:

        Bias, which is omnipresent throughout LLMPapa’s “analysis” on the Trayvon Martin case, is the quickest path to faulty results. He who sets out to prove himself right will invariably succeed.

        Thus in this very special case, I would have wished you had done a more calm video, that even outsiders, or people that don’t belong into our camp can understand. Since if his expert usage of tools like photogrammetry results in a measurably faulty result. But what does that mean? Does it mean: the method is not used at all for the human body, he is unable to apply it correctly, or he is tricking people, while covering himself with an analytically unbiased scientific mantle?

      • Malisha says:

        A fellow once used photogrammetry
        to try to advance goofy-blah-metry.
        But El-El-Em-Papa
        grabbed a big sink-drain-stoppah
        and stuffed it where it made the most difference.

        And I don’t even care that it doesn’t rhyme.
        The guy got owned real good. ❗

      • leander22 says:

        Don’t misunderstand, Malisha. I may overestimate the influence of this guy. But I had to go back to read his article. Which so far I hadn’t. LLMPapa’s video is a very important feedback concerning his article. Maybe the correct question would be how to make it more visible on the web. I notice Southern Girl in this context.

        Will you and LLMPapa forgive me? Obviously I liked it. But it needs knowledge of the context.

        Maybe some people out there are equally slow in getting things, without more time to look closer, maybe I am really a part of the mentally slow that don’t matter in this case. In any case, I don’t like the guy and his book.

      • leander22 says:

        In any case, I don’t like the guy and his book.

        just as I like LLMPapa and strictly the video. He deserves celebration in this case. No doubt.

    • Jun says:

      I tweeted him and told him to put his money where his mouth is, and asked if he wanted to bet money


  47. Rachael says:

    Schoolboy ruler RULES!!! Take that ruler and rap his knuckles.

    I love you LLMPapa ❤

  48. Dave says:

    LLMPapa rules!

    • Rachael says:

      YES HE DOES!!!

    • FactsFirst says:

      Papa don’t Take no mess! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ziBH-67sew

      @Knox, have a stadium full of seats.. immediately…

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Extra, Extra, Extra, Expert Knox, beaten on dark internet site with a schoolboy ruler! There’s a report that he may have followed and confronted his detractor before it happened. He is claimed to have used the pejoratives: photogrammetry and biofidelic, that may have cause the frackas to erupt.

    • Nellie Nell says:

      LLMPapa’s videos are insightful and addictive! I would love to see a piece on the ‘shimmy” that would cause the jacket to rise up. I would suspect that to get from the sidewalk where the head allegedly lies to the grass would be more of a scoot than a shimmy. For some reason I am thinking that the legs and feet would be doing a ton of work to scoot the body down towards the feet with 155 lbs sitting on top? Unless of course, the “shimmy” is to the side which I can not picture this to cause the jacket to rise as much as it would be twisting? Either way, with 155lbs sitting on top of the jacket with legs hanging over either side, would the jacket really rise?

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: