Dee Dee did not lie or commit perjury in Zimmerman case

Tuesday, March 5, 2013

Before the beginning of today’s hearing in the Zimmerman case, the prosecution informed the defense that Dee Dee (the name given to Trayvon Martin’s girlfriend to protect her anonymity) did not go to a hospital instead of attending Trayvon’s funeral.

Judge Nelson dismissed the defense motion for Dee Dee’s medical records as moot.

The defense now claims that Dee Dee lied.

As the following partial transcript of her interview under oath by prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda conclusively demonstrates, she not lie or commit perjury.

BDLR:_ OK._ I’m not saying that they did._ I’m just making sure the records’ clear on that….Um…you obviously found out about what happened to Trayvon, right?_ And at some point you ended up knowing that he was killed, right?

Dee Dee:_ Yeah.

BDLR:_ Were you able to go to the funeral or to the wake?

Dee Dee:__I was goin’ to go, but…

BDLR:_ OK, what happened?

Dee Dee:__I didn’ feel good.

BDLR:_ OK, did you end up going to the hospital or somewhere?

Dee Dee:_ Mmmm…Yeah, I had high blood pressure.”

(Emphasis supplied)

The question is unclear because he asked if she went to a hospital or somewhere.

Therefore, her answer was not a lie and if it was not a lie, it certainly was not perjury.

Nevertheless, let us assume for the sake of argument that she did lie.

As I said in response to a comment by Unabogie,

I think you are being way too literal.

Lying is lying, by definition, but there is an unlimited number of reasons why people lie.

Intentionally lying to conceal the existence of more than a $100,000 in cash from the court during a bail hearing is, by any standard one might choose to apply, a far more serious matter than lying because you did not want to admit that you were too upset to attend a funeral.

I do not believe the prosecution is the least bit worried about this turn of events.

Proof of perjury requires proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant unambiguously lied under oath about a material matter.

BDLR’s question was ambiguous and DD’s response was not about a material matter, as is the case regarding Shellie Zimmerman’s denial under oath during a bail hearing that she did not know about the money she had transferred into her account.

Therefore, even if we assume for the sake of argument that Dee Dee lied, she did not commit and will not be charged with perjury.

Anyone who says she lied and committed perjury is mistaken and anyone who claims that Dee Dee is as guilty of perjury as Shellie Zimmerman is wrong and guilty of asserting false equivalencies.

As I said in an earlier comment this morning before I saw the transcript, I do not believe this development today changes anything.

I predict DD will be one of the last witnesses called by the State after all of the evidence about the shooting and the events that led up to it have been admitted into evidence.

She will simply be confirming what the evidence has already proven. BDLR will ask her about the false statement and she will probably break down and cry as she admits that she lied about that because she was too embarrassed to admit that she was too upset to attend the funeral.

I think the jury and everyone in the courtroom, except the defendant, will understand that and forgive her for lying.

I believe Sybrina will be the last witness because she is Trayvon’s mom and the emotional impact of her testimony will be extremely powerful.

After all is said and done, I do not think anyone will remember, much less care, that DD lied. It’s just not very important.

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129 Responses to Dee Dee did not lie or commit perjury in Zimmerman case

  1. OMG! The Orlando Sentinel article about DeeDee has hit 600 comments. 600 comments of pure nonsense. I swear it will hurt your brain to try and process it. I just couldn’t take it anymore.

    • KittySP says:

      @sg2. I can’t take them either…you have same ignorant ppl saying same old mess. Keep your sanity and let that group of Alice’s continue following GZ into Wonderland!

      • Malisha says:

        Don’t worry about it. They need to “comfort themselves” so naturally they are doing it at DeeDee’s expense. Remember, in the beginning they did it at Trayvon Martin’s expense. They don’t shame easy.

        At trial this will have nothing to do with the guilt of the defendant for the murder of the victim.

  2. fauxmccoy says:

    reading is fundamental.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      response to gould

      According to Crump, W8 had to spend the night at the hospital. There certainly would have been some record of that.

      So where did Crump get this idea?

      -John Gould

  3. Malisha says:

    Let’s talk about witnesses lying.
    Let’s start with, “I saw a big bad evil savage guy who happened to be Black but I’m not a racist and he was beating up a nice white guy who was Afro-Peruvian but I’m not racist and he was beating him up wham wham wham MMA style like the Blacks do. But I’m not racist.”

    Let’s just imagine the cross-examination of this witness.

    Q: You say he was punching him MMA Style?
    A: Yeah. A lot. And the guy being killed was yelling help-me help-me help-me but nobody would help.
    Q: Why is that?
    A: Anti-Afro-Peruvian-White racism. We really need to talk about that honestly in this country. I think Junior should be our expert. Kick that non-expert out of the White House; he doesn’t even match his house.
    Q: OK, is there anything else you’d like to add?
    A: Yeah. DeeDee is a liar.

  4. PYorck says:

    I have been rereading old transcripts and I noticed that Gilbreath explicitly said under oath and on the stand that the phone records confirm that DeeDee was on the phone with Trayvon.

    DE LA RIONDA: […] Isn’t it true also that you verified through Detective Osteen, Investigator Osteen that Mr. Martin was on the phone with a lady who was out of town?

    GILBREATH: Yes.

    DE LA RIONDA: Ok and in fact that young lady provided a sworn statement but also you verified through phone records that that conversation actually took place?

    GILBREATH: Yes.

    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/20/cnr.02.html

    That the records confirm it shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone because the opposite would make no sense, but many people are still treating this as an open question.

  5. RobertSF says:

    I’m exasperated because these accusations of W8 lying stem from Crump and BLDR shooting themselves in the foot with poor questioning. Lawyers have no excuse for asking poor questions.

    It also bugs me that there is so much (inaudible). If the witness is not speaking loudly enough, the lawyer taking the statement should correct that.

  6. concernedczen says:

    I can’t tell from the recording with Mr. Crump whether or not she said she went to the hospital. It seems like she said a lot of different things and something about a fight, but I couldn’t make out what she said.

    • Malisha says:

      Do we understand why this is moot? It is moot because anyone failing to go to the funeral of a murder victim, for any reason at all, a good reason, a bad reason, or a dishonest reason, cannot bring the person back to life, and cannot change the circumstances of that person’s death. If every single attendee of the funeral lied about why they WERE there and every single person who was NOT there lied about why they were NOT there, none of that could change anything about how the deceased died. If he was murdered, those things would not change his death to justifiable homicide. If he was killed in self-defense, those things would not change that either.

      If someone were to break into O’Mara’s house tonight, mistake him for Oscar Pistorius, and beat him up with a cricket bat, that STILL wouldn’t change the circumstances of the death of Trayvon Martin. Or would it? We will have to find out…

  7. Big Willie says:

    I knew this irrelevant DeeDee hospital thing would bring the frenemies out!

  8. Jun says:

    She did not lie

    In the Crump interview, Crump clearly asked regarding the wake

    Deedee said she was in shock and then the recording does not sound good

    In the Bernie interview she said Yeah, I had high blood pressure

    I do not see where people are getting that she is lying

    The defense is trying to make a mountain out of nothing

    Also what do you expect of Omara, he has been lying since day, attacking and slandering a kid in public would not make a difference to that guy

  9. Valerie says:

    This is audio between Mr Crump and DD where he asks her about her trip to hospital: starts at 4:03:20

  10. onlyiamunitron says:

    I’m still trying to find a link to Screamin Jay’s written transcript of Crump’s interview with the young lady, but apparently this is from it.

    Crump: So you had to spend the night in the 13:39 hospital?

    DeeDee: Yeah.

    Crump: And so this made you so sick that you had to go get medical assistance.

    DeeDee: Yes.

    with the numbers being time markers he inserted.

    So technically since she wasn’t under oath in her conversation with Crump, it wasn’t perjury.

    And perhaps one could argue that it wasn’t a lie when he made statements about going to the hospital and getting medical assistance and she answered him in the affirmative, because maybe she misunderstood what he said or something.

    But it certainly seems that she created the appearence of something having happened which in reality didn’t actually happen.

    And the prosecution doesn’t seem to have been in any more of a hurry to correct the public misperception of this than they were the one about her age.

    unitron

    • elcymoo says:

      @unitron: I don’t see how an misperception of Witness 8’s age is relevant, since I haven’t seen any evidence that she was the one misrepresenting it. The only reasons the defense might think so is if it would have been easier to access her records if she were not a minor, but that’s moot now. If the defense starts bullying her about this on the stand, the prosecution can not only object, but the members of the jury would probably feel sympathy for the witness.

      ‘Go get medical assistance’ is vague, too, but none of the discrepancies about whether or not she sought it at a hospital or clinic is really impeachable material, given the fact that TM’s phone records establish the fact that she was talking with him throughout the day, and especially right up to the moment of his confrontation with GZ. The defense team can’t get around that.

      • KA says:

        The age was a mistake by Crump. I think the defense (I remember reading) found about her age was that she stated correctly in her deposition. The first copy the defense got was redacted. The second it had her answering her age correctly.

    • Jun says:

      1) There is no proof that the witness misrespresented her age

      2) The point is moot. What is important is she is the authenticated person on the phone with Trayvon during this murder

      3) She was unable to attend the wake it seems. Bernie asked funeral or the wake, and hospital or somewhere. She answered Yeah, I had high blood pressure.

      4) Her medical records are considered moot and the defense cant get those records anyways, so where is their proof?

    • Malisha says:

      It is not the prosecution’s job to “correct the public misperception,” Unitron. The prosecution’s job is to prosecute the defendant on behalf of the People of the State of Florida, who have a law that punishes murder. Furthermore, although there is no law about what the defense lawyers may say when they run around flapping their jaws about everything THEY would like to talk about (other than the evidence, ha ha ha), there IS a law that says the prosecution is not allowed to go blabbing to the media about anything nonpublic in the case. So what we are seeing is the defense acting like a bunch of filthy licentious scumbags and whipping up whatever frenzy they think they can use to make themselves feel better for a while as the case grinds toward trial and the almost inevitable conviction the prosecution expects to be able to gain by the use of EVIDENCE and not by the use of dishonest and disgraceful propaganda. BDLR will not be out in public “correcting misperceptions” and the case is not suffering for his failure to do that. He is “working out” using the real muscle the state has in its case. West and O’Mara are dancing around acting the fool and calling witnesses they fear “liars” and behaving pretty much like their client has always behaved and ultimately, that will get them only so far as the “evidence of self-defense” will get them — in their dreams.

  11. blushedbrown says:

    @Professor

    Some legal clarification please on what the state has to produce or obtain on medical records of a witness.

    Mr. Guy said that after her depo with the SAO no medical records were to be obtained.

    How can the State produce something they don’t have or did not even try obtaining?

    Is the state required to obtain medical records from witnessess for discovery?

    By the state not obtaining the information did they force the defense to ask for that information at depostion were she can refuse because of HIPPA laws, and her right to privacy?

    Mr. Guy said after her depo is taken, the issue of medical records can be readdressed.

    Listen forward from 6:25 please…..

    Thanks in Advance

  12. creepytwins says:

    I’m assuming that W8 will have to face cross examination about this at the trial. Can the defense introduce the Crump interview to clarify?

    Crump: What happened? where did you go?
    DeeDee:“(inaudible) all day, Friday I was just sick so I just stayed home and then my mama came and she took me to (inaudible) like at kind a like 2 somethin and I went the hospital the next day.”(inaudible)
    Crump: You had to spend the night in the Hospital?
    DeeDee: yeah
    Crump: So, this made you so sick that you had to go get medical assitance?
    DeeDee: Yes

    • No. The document is not admissible.

      • creepytwins says:

        Could the defense ask DeeDee on cross examination if she received medical attention or go to the emergency room? And if so, what would be her answer? Also, if she says “no” couldn’t the defense play the recording of the interview to dispute her?

        I read somewhere that perhaps the prosecution could offer her immunity regarding this issue.

        • There is no reason to offer her immunity since she did not lie or commit perjury during the BDLR interview.

          It does not make any sense for the defense to attempt to impeach her with a prior inconsistent statement because no matter how she answers the question, the answer will be consistent with her previous answer, which was:

          BDLR:_ Were you able to go to the funeral or to the wake?

          Dee Dee:__I was goin’ to go, but…

          BDLR:_ OK, what happened?

          Dee Dee:__I didn’ feel good.

          BDLR:_ OK, did you end up going to the hospital or somewhere?

          Dee Dee:_ Mmmm…Yeah, I had high blood pressure.

          As long as she went somewhere, her answer will be consistent with her answer to BDLR.

          I consider this whole thing a non-issue.

      • KA says:

        But she was not under oath in the interview. This interview was done by the family to show that someone talked to Trayvon before charges were even filed.

        I do not think they can use things not under oath because she is not the defendant. She is merely a witness.

        • A prior inconsistent statement does not have to be under oath to use it.

          BDLR has been around the block. I’m sure he will do what I would do. For example:

          Q: Did you go to the funeral or to the wake?

          A: No.

          Q: Why Not?

          A: I did not feel well enough to go.

          Q: Did you go someplace?

          A: Yes.

          Q: Where did you go?

          A: (Fill in the blank)

          (This testimony would be consistent with her sworn statement to BDLR, so no problem there)

          Q: Did you tell Mr. Crump that you went to the hospital?

          A: Yes.

          Q: Why did you tell him that

          A: Trayvon’s parents were in Mr. Crump’s office listening to the call and I did not want to admit to them that I was too upset to go, so I said I could not go because I went to the hospital.

          I don’t think the jury would have any problem understanding that.

          Lying to Trayvon’s parents about why she did not attend the funeral or the wake has nothing to do with the issues in the case. It’s not material. If BDLR handles the issue the way I have suggested, he will defang it and there is nothing the defense can do to resuscitate it.

          There is no issue here.

      • KA says:

        Why would it even come up really? I would think relevance would be an issue.

  13. elcymoo says:

    Since high blood pressure and diabetes are so prevalent among black families, I wouldn’t be surprised if DeeDee’s mom or another relative had blood pressure monitoring equipment at home. My husband and I aren’t black, we’re just aging faster than either of us ever believed possible, and have had such things and used them for a couple of decades because of diabetes and his heart condition.

    • Malisha says:

      My mother-in-law was a hysteric. She used to claim she had something she called “pressure” whenever she had swallowed too much air and had an uncomfortable feeling in her upper abdomen. Her sons (who used to get whipped into a frenzy of worry about their mommy being sick) would run around claiming she had a “pressure attack” and blaming it on each other. (She encouraged their sibling rivalry because it made them fight over her.) They then enhanced these hypochondriatic pronouncements to a high pitch claiming that their mother had “blood pressure crises” from being mistreated by her terrible daughter-in-law. One time they carried on so much that an ambulance came and took her to the hospital and some EMT’s tried to put a tube down her throat and she fought like two alligators drowning an elephant, so they gave up. Finally when a doctor saw her, he recommended burping.

      Now that I think of it, I should have had her charged with perjury.

  14. fauxmccoy says:

    following with bated breath

  15. ay2za says:

    Had the defense taken Dee Dee’s deposition ages ago, the defense would not be able to make so much media-hay about this to influence the jury pool. They would have clarification under oath, and then move on without being able to throw mud and confusion into the court records (published by media) and into their little media conferences.

    Radaronline is not accountable for the correctness of it’s stories nor, it seems, for giving sources for ‘facts’.

    • KA says:

      I completely agree…this will have zero effect on the jury because the statements will not be admissible.

    • KittySP says:

      As far as I’m concerned, let them spend all the time they want in the media up until June 10, with the, “She lied” mantra. Please allow them to spend as little time as possible preparing a good defense for their client. One things for certain, two things for sure… (1)”the dog ate my homework” defense isn’t gonna fly, and (2)GZ is an admitted killer and proven liar!

      Please, if this is the best they and their supporters have in a, “see,we knew she wasn’t credible”…”we got’em now”… then by all means, let’em run with it! Won’t change a thing in the end when all the evidence that matters has been presented.

  16. Vernon Dean says:

    She did not say when she went to a hospital or somewhere either. She did not say that the reason she did not go to the funeral was because she went to a hospital or somewhere else.

  17. @KA,thank you,link please?

  18. SearchingMind says:

    TIME TO SUE!

    Oh, I am loving this. DeeDee is an ideal client with regard to the big bad cooperate news organizations. Accusing a good and honest citizen of lying under oath is very serious. It’s time to sue for libel and slander. Big time. Big money!

  19. KA says:

    I think the information came from Crump and from the Martins. I think it was based on 3rd party information, not W8 herself.

    I found this in an article on RadarOnline:

    [Crump speaking] “His girlfriend became absolutely inconsolable and had trouble breathing so her mother took her to a nearby hospital emergency room. She had never seen her daughter this upset before, ever. She had a battery of tests, including an EKG, and was there for over 12 hours. Doctors ultimately told her that she was going to be ok, but advised her mother to keep a close eye on her and try to minimize the stress around her.”

    This is a supposed quote from Crump in a news article. I cannot find anything is a deposition that repeats this information.

    I am not sure where Crump got this information, but it could have been heresy as well.

    It does not appear this came from W8 in any deposition. This is a public issue of misinformation, not a “lying” under oath by W8.

    • Rachael says:

      You are right. It is certainly not lying under oath by W8. It is not lying under oath by anyone.

    • Tzar says:

      I am familiar with this scenario
      let me tell you exactly why there is no record
      no physician would admit an 16-18yo patient with this history
      let the nurse take their vitals
      give them a cold compress
      you may even get a rudimentary ekg to make mom feel better and to make sure that there are no zebras in her heart (arrythmias mostly)
      then let her sit somewhere in the ER, till mom feels comfortable taking her home.

      I have personally sat in the ER for 7 hours with a relative only to have no admission occur at the end of the ordeal.

      • jm says:

        I worked in admissions in ER and if a patient comes in complaining of high blood pressure a triage nurse will check to see if they need immediate treatment.

        If further treatment is necessary, whether they are admitted to the hospital or just seen in ER, there is a record of the visit.

        I still think BDLR led her with his question and it was not a lie on Dee-Dee’s part. I haven’t read the whole interview but just the out of context stuff, but why was the question even necessary?

      • Same here, Tzar. If you go to the local ER here be prepared to sit hours and hours on end.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @jm, why do you keep harping on the issue of DeeDee lying and being lead by the PC? people from other sites that support this child murderer read here in order to take cheap shots at Professor and by you keeping on with her lying especially after the LAW PROFESSOR has said, that she did lie or commit perjury.

        This defense is conducting themselves in an unprofessional manner and, what Don West did this morning is unforgivable in every sense of the word. just as others has said, they are trying to take the focus off of Fogen and, wanting to direct it to anyone except him. why in the hell are they not talking about W-6 lying under oath to LE about the MMA pounding that Fogen was being subjected to. they are not talking about his big lie now are they? and, I consider his lie to be very relevant in this case.

        The same can also be said for W-11 and Jeremy as well. they all lied to LE in order to protect someone who had just killed a child who was begging for his life. now if they want to talk about witnesses telling lies, they may as well tell it all on everyone of them who they know without a doubt, lied under oath to LE. this Renee Stutzman is already working on her article asking Bernie why W-8 wasn’t being charged with perjury while SheLie has a perjury charge under her belt. this woman does not hesitate to let the public know where her loyalties are.

        • jm says:

          ladystclaire: “why do you keep harping on the issue of DeeDee lying and being lead”

          To be perfectly clear, I have stated on several posts I DO NOT believe Dee-Dee lied. She answered an indirect question with an indirect answer and the fault was in the indirect question not her answer. If someone wants to assume I am implying she is lying that is preposterous. Neither BDLR or Dee-Dee would have any reason to lie about her being hospitalized. I don’t even understand why the question was posed to her.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Jm, I am in no way assuming that DeeDee is/was lying. all I was getting at was the fact that those who support this POS only needs to read here and they in return would be more than happy to assume that Those of us who support Trayvon and his family are beginning to believe this girl is a liar. what this Don West did at that hearing this morning was unfair and under handed. they know their client is guilty of murdering a child and yet they are trying very hard to take the focus off of him and blame others for what he did.

        This Renee Stutzman was all into what West did to the point where she kept asking why SheLie was charged with perjury for lying while under oath and, DeeDee wasn’t. even though he did not answer her, I’ll bet she couldn’t wait to get her a little piece ready for the OS, more than likely telling lies herself about this incident.

        It’s very obvious that she can eat 10 yards of Fogen’s manure and ask the doctor if another ten would hurt. she is biased in her reporting of this case and to me that is very unprofessional of her. she and people like her just can’t wait to make more out of this than is actually there. from what I can see, she did not lie under oath.

        • Tzar says:

          it’s interesting to me to look at it this way
          what is Deedee had lied about where she had lunch the day of the murder. Would that matter?

          there seems to be a need to diminished the apparent impact of what happened to Trayvon, of the atrocity of what the killer did, of the value we all seem to be ascribing to Trayvon’s life and the idea that Deedee would casually opt to not go to his funeral seems to fulfill this desire to those who seek to diminish the value of this boy’s life.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          @ladystclair — the word ‘hack’ is too good for stutzman.

    • esentrick says:

      Thanks KA for the clarification. Maybe you and/or some of the others could help with my question in the other post. Could the defense use Crump’s public statement regarding DD hospital stay in the immunity or wrongful death suits?

      • KA says:

        I am not sure. It may be some family members told it to him and they assumed it or heard it from someone else. I do not even think it is admissible as it did not come from the witness herself and was not repeated or validated in the deposition.

        Really this is about why she did not go to the funeral. I really question the value of this anyway. It is documented she knew him for years and was on the phone with him for hours that day. I really do not see the relevance if she did not state that information in a public interview or deposition under oath.

        I think it will be regarded as hearsay and the defense does nto have the right to depose Crump anymore…so he will not be on the stand,

      • SearchingMind says:

        Nope. There is no evidence that DeeDee told Mr. Crump any of the things Mr. Crump claimed. Mr. Crump cannot be called to testify to impeach DeeDee. Even IF Mr. Crump were to testify, it would still be a case of he-said-she-said. The only evidence of any conversation between Mr. Crump and DeeDee is the interview witnessed by ABC Matt Gutman et al., which in no way helps the defense.

      • Malisha says:

        It would be Mr. Crump saying what he heard about DeeDee — maybe from her mother, not even from HER.

  20. groans says:

    Which raises the matter of possible defamation of W8.

    I would think the defense would be rather familiar defamation, since O’Mara (according to one of his websites) participated in filing the killer’s defamation claim against NBC.

    It might be prudent for them to quell the “lie” rumor that they created and the media has already begun to spread.

    Also, West called her a liar about three times in this morning’s hearing. If she feels aggrieved, Witness 8 might want contact the Florida State Bar about that.

  21. Big Willie says:

    Just last month I was not feeling well, and went to the ER. The nurse eventually took my blood pressure and assured me it was normal. I decided to go home without seeing the doctor. Before leaving I asked ER Nurse would I get a bill , she said “No. There will be no record you were ever here”. As you can see, I went to the hospital but there is no record.

    I think we should wait for DD’s explanantion before calling her a liar. JMO

    • Valerie says:

      An eighteen year old with high blood pressure after hearing about the demise of a dear friend would be a low priority in any ER…and would call for a long stay…sitting in the waiting room. More serious emergencies would be triaged first.

    • I’m in full agreement…in fact, I’ve felt that way about a lot of some of the contested things DeeDee has said. IF this was such a devastating blow to the State…IF DeeDee was the “star witness”…why no SYG hearing in April?

    • Two sides to a story says:

      True.

      Too bad that the Fogenites will be crowing it up, though. They’ll be disppointed, however, as Prof. L says.

  22. FactsFirst says:

    As always, GREAT POST!

  23. Cercando Luce says:

    De la Rionda’s interview with DeeDee was maddening because he kept interrupting her, finishing her sentences for her, putting words in her mouth— and the above transcript is just one such example. Bernie said hospital, not DeeDee. She just managed to say she didn’t feel good, then that she had high blood pressure.

    • jm says:

      I wonder how Dee-Dee found out she had high blood pressure.

      To be clear, I avoid funeral visitations as well so I get why she wanted an excuse not to go.

      Just hope this statement does not damage her credibility in other testimony and MOM can’t run with it in court.

      • Malisha says:

        This statement had nothing to do with her credibility.
        It’s a non-issue.
        All the defense HAS is non-issues.

      • PYorck says:

        I wonder how Dee-Dee found out she had high blood pressure.

        That is a very good point.

      • Tzar says:

        I wonder how Dee-Dee found out she had high blood pressure.

        as do I, this is exactly why, i think there is more to this and we should wait for the deposition, she had no need to lie with this detail.

      • KA says:

        Someone could have told her that is what she probably had…it could be her mom or Auntie, it does not need to be a medical doctor.

      • Malisha says:

        It doesn’t matter how she found out she had high blood pressure or even if she DID really have it. She might not know that “feeling nervous” was not equivalent to “high blood pressure.” It’s a non-issue, again! What if, in her extended family, a person has a diagnosis of high blood pressure and that person is very nervous and feels bad often — perhaps DeeDee thinks that’s the same and she uses it as a non-medical person would. It’s a total non-issue.

        • jm says:

          I am not making her blood pressure readings an issue. I just wondered how she found out, if her mother or a relative had a blood pressure cuff or she has a pre-existing history. High blood pressure can be dangerous for a person in her position with all the ugly publicity and pressure.

      • leander22 says:

        jm, I can understand your concern, I have these fear attacks too, occasionally.

        But concerning bad PR, or more precisely “bad news”, news with the tendency to influence people, who don’t know too much about the case. I think it would even happen if West hadn’t stressed repeatedly that “she lied”. The headlines may have read pretty similar even if West hadn’t hammered it into the heads of the media people watching or present.

        Remember how when Fogen took the the stand for his pseudo-excuse to the parents during the first bond hearing? The second part of his statement was almost nowhere to be found. Everybody reported “his excuse to the parents” but almost no one reported what the self-interested statements he added, I thought he was about my age, and I didn’t know he was armed.

        There are a multitude of reasons, of course and as Malisha says it is ultimately irrelevant. But it is one point of attack for defense, there may be worse to come in her direction. Corey’s affidavit put much weight on her young shoulders.

        Personally I stop fearing when it is all over.

      • leander22 says:

        sorry, that was in a haste, I changed some sentences and didn’t even check after. So what? 😉 I hope you understand anyway.

      • leander22 says:

        I wonder how Dee-Dee found out she had high blood pressure.

        I had a much too low blood pressure and anemia at her age, I had to swallow iron and eat stuff that contained a lot, it still is low. How about you?

        I have to admit that caught my attention too. But some ladies here seem to have more experience with that than me.

        jm, personal question. Are you female or male. I noticed your comments on Shellie, where you were pretty close to my view.

        • Xena says:

          I have a niece who has had high blood pressure since the age of 12. It was discovered after several bouts of severe headaches. At that time, physicians preferred not to put young patients on high blood pressure medication because it was required for the rest of their life.

          I have an AA friend who has had high blood pressure since she was a teen. She is now in her 60’s with stage 2 kidney disease because her high blood pressure was not treated for years.

          Teens with high blood pressure know when it’s high. Sometimes it’s their vision, dizziness, headaches.

          • Xena

            I have a prob with high BP….takes meds for it daily…..normally stays around 125 / 90……A year ago August I was in the cardiac ward for 5 days as it went over 205…..

            Why?………My BP goes up when I get angry……….lets just call it “boiling blood”…..OR?…..One pissed off redneck

          • Xena says:

            @MMPat

            Why?………My BP goes up when I get angry……….lets just call it “boiling blood”…..OR?…..One pissed off redneck

            LOL!
            Anger, fear, stress, fatty foods, too much physical activity — all things that can cause the BP to rise.

          • If it ain’t fried, it ain’t food…..

            Anger?……..Stay away from zimbots……

          • Xena says:

            @MMPat

            Anger?……..Stay away from zimbots……

            Actually, Zidiots don’t make me angry because I pity them for their ignorance. They don’t know a civil case from a criminal case so how is anyone suppose to reason with them about criminal procedure? They reject facts based on who says them, rather than what is said.

  24. jm says:

    I don’t think she lied because she did not answer a direct question with a direct answer under oath but is it true she elaborated on her hospital stay to Mr. Crump?

    • Cercando Luce says:

      But any conversation with Mr. Crump was not under oath.

      • Tzar says:

        That’s why the deposition will be important

      • jm says:

        “But any conversation with Mr. Crump was not under oath.”

        I get that but the fact would remain she did lie.

        I wonder if when West said she lied at the hearing he was referring to her answer to BDLR or if he was talking about her statements to Crump.

        I just hate the idea of giving the defense any ammunition under any circumstances that the press will run with.

      • esentrick says:

        I just hate the idea of giving the defense any ammunition under any circumstances that the press will run with.

        I agree jm. IMHO, I believe the defense is going to use this to raise more donations as well.

      • Tzar says:

        @ JM
        I feel I can say this without bias, wait before you call this a lie
        why? because it is too trivial a thing to lie about, with added unnecessary confirm-able details, given the circumstances. I am just not buying that.

        • jm says:

          @Tzar. I am on Dee-Dee’s side no matter what. I understand how she must have felt. I just don’t want MOM or West to paint a different picture (like West did in court today) to suit their ugly agenda.

          • Tzar says:

            I know you are on her side JM
            I just think we are being taken for a ride by professional manipulators

          • jm says:

            I not on a ride by professional manipulators West and MOM. I am just afraid there are others who my go on that ride. After all, not for nothing are they making these statements to the press and in open court with cameras and millions watching, hoping to poison the potential jurors and/or get donations. I realize they are no more truthful or ethical than their client.

      • @Tzar

        I’m not buying she lied either. And I’m not buying into she didn’t want to go to the funeral as an excuse. The child had just heard emotionally disturbing news about her friend.

        Just so folks know…A lot of black people in my neck of the woods react to a sudden shocking death about someone they love deeply by fainting, wailing, screaming uncontrollably, hyperventilating etc. I’ve seen it all and at times reacted in the same way.

      • Just wanted to add…I’ve seen some die. My brother was one of them. After the funeral of an older brother, my younger brother fell dead. He couldn’t take it. ***tears***

        • blushedbrown says:

          @SG2

          I am so sorry to hear that, SG2. Sincerest condolences to you and your family.

          • TY, Blushedbrown. Our family went through some tramatic times. It was hard to take. My mother had to bury 2 sons in one week. It was soo unbelievable.

          • blushedbrown says:

            @SG2

            My God, heartwrenching.

          • I am not suprised at all with DeeDee’s reaction of hearing the news of Trayvon’s death. What I’m surprised about is folks reaction to her experience. Most black people understand it b/c we’ve experienced the same thing in our lives. I understand the hyperventilating and can’t breathe, high blood pressure. It’s how some ppl react to death. Some can’t eat or sleep and some cry so hard until an ambulance has to be called. It’s the saddest thing ever.

          • blushedbrown says:

            @SG2

            Yes, I understand her reaction totally.

            On a side note, there are times if I am under alot of stress, I will say, Oh boy my blood pressure must be sky high. I don’t have high blood pressure, but it is a common enough thing to say in stressful situations, whether it be personal, professional or a time of grief.

            You don’t necesscarily have to be “diagnosed” to say that, right?

      • fauxmccoy says:

        @SG – i am so sorry to hear of your losses, that situation must have been devastating for all, but especially your mother. my sincere condolences.

      • @fauxmccoy

        TY. This happened in 2001. I still have my days in dealing with the grief. Upon hearing the news of the older brother’s death, I remember someone helping me up from the floor. I don’t remember how I got down there. It was so painful to bear.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          i have experienced that myself upon receiving a call from a woman i did not know, alerting me that my best friend and former love of my life had suicided. i don’t even remember hanging up the phone, i know i screamed because i awoke my husband who found me in a heap on the kitchen floor. grief and shock are powerful things. i have to believe it is one of the body’s coping mechanisms.

      • @fauxmccoy

        Exactly. you and I —> eye to eye. If we as adults experienced someone helping us get up from the floor after receiving such an emotional shock and not remembering how we got there..imagine how it is for a young girl?

        • fauxmccoy says:

          it is why i hope that she has her mamma’s loving arms around her and all the protection they can afford. this girl has been through too damn much, way too young. sadly, i know a few things about that as well.

          i have known from the beginning of this case that my interest was very personal. at the age of 17, i was held at gunpoint by a family member experiencing psychosis. none of the circumstances made anything any easier. unlike trayvon, i did survive to see daylight. like trayvon, local law enforcement was worthless. the experience has haunted me for 30 years and always will.

      • @fauxmccoy

        I can imagine how scary it was for a young 17 year old to experience what happened to you. I’m sorry you had to go through it. But grateful you’re alive to talk about it now.

        Experiencing a friend’s sudden death is tramatic enough but then the child is hated, bullied and stalked in order to intimidate her b/c she happened to be on the phone with her guy when he died is too much.

        Mama’s loving arms need to around her to protect her and look out for her well being in EVERY way.

      • Dear DD,
        thank god you’ve got loving parents, just like Trayvon.

    • Malisha says:

      How ridiculous. She neither lied nor committed perjury. Question: “Did you go to the hospital or somewhere?” and the answer was “yeah…I had high blood pressure.” She could have gone “somewhere” rather than to a hospital. She could have gone to the kitchen. It’s neither relevant nor dishonest where she went; this shows what the defense is trying to do: ATTACK A WITNESS TO MAKE HER FEAR GIVING TESTIMONY.

      Now, perjury is something else. It is:

      Deliberate —
      Lying —
      under oath —
      with respect to a MATERIAL matter.

      Would “yeah…I had high blood pressure” be a lie? No.
      WOuld it be deliberate if it were not technically “true”? No.
      Would it be under oath? If it was.
      Was it material? Not in the least.

      They need to get up off all that bullshit and start acting like decent human beings and do-right attorneys acting within the bounds of advocacy. Thugs.

      • Rachael says:

        Everyone needs to read this post!!!! ^

      • Big Willie says:

        I agree with you 100%.

        The defense did what it set out to do, which was…

        1. Take the focus off Foggen
        2. Discredit DD, in the court of public opinion.

      • jm says:

        Hope you don’t think I am on MOM’s side here. I think the error lies in BDLR’s question and not in Dee-Dee’s answer. The only reason I asked about whether she directly elaborated on her hospital stay to Crump was she may be intimidated by thugs and sleazes like MOM and West. I can’t stand to even listen to MOM in his lying press conferences and he has some nerve calling anyone a liar.

      • Xena says:

        @Malisha. Good comment. I wonder if they have physician’s emergency centers in Florida? They do in Illinois. Also, if DeeDee sought medical care it was probably not independently and her mom would have taken her and signed any required forms.

    • Malisha says:

      There was nothing unambiguous about her “mmm, yeah” comment and she DID NOT LIE. Anyone who assumes she lied and/or anyone who assumes she should be blamed for anything is going way way way too far. Their standard is: “Whatever Fogen did was correct because he’s white; therefore, whatever a Black person ever did was less correct and their deeds are all to be interpreted as bad and wrongful and dishonest and blameworthy and they should all be ashamed.” I’m disgusted by this attitude.

      DeeDee did not lie and she has nothing to be sorry about. SHE has a right to be indignant, angry, outraged and righteously defended in every way by all of us. Just imagine! Some punk kills her boyfriend and SHE gets attacked!

      • jm says:

        Malisha: “There was nothing unambiguous about her “mmm, yeah” comment and she DID NOT LIE.”

        Is there something wrong with the way I have worded my response that it seems I am implying Dee-Dee lied? I DO NOT BELIEVE DEE-DEE LIED. I see no benefit to BDLR or Dee-Dee to say she was hospitalized if she was not. In the scheme of things, what difference would it make if she went to the funeral/wake, the doctor, the hospital, stayed home, had high blood pressure, a headache, an anxiety attack or was just feeling overall bad? I thought the BDLR question was vague and did not understand why it was asked. That does not mean I think Dee-Dee lied or BDLR was up to no good.

      • FactsFirst says:

        The way WEST ranted on and on about DD lying, anyone could possibly misinterpret what he said in court today as the truth… I’m just glad I have professor leatherman when I get mixed up, because he break shit down without embarassing folk or making me feel stupid… That’s why I don’t comment much… SMDH… just saying…

      • Malisha says:

        jm, I’m not arguing with you and I’m not responding to anything specific you said. I’m just talking independently about this tempest in a teapot that “DeeDee lied DeeDee lied DeeDee lied” which is idiotic and racist and obnoxious and completely beside the point. It has nothing to do with the murder of Trayvon Martin or the fact that Trayvon told DeeDee he was being followed by a creepy guy or that Trayvon said to Fogen, “Why are you following me?” or that Fogen said, “What are you doing around here?”

        Liars and murderers and their support team are gangbanging a witness to intimidate anyone who thinks it’s wrong to kill a Black kid because they wanted to drive Blacks out of the RTL and THAT is what has been going on in Sanford, Florida since and even before the death of Trayvon Martin. Those racist punks and assholes and their lawyers and their pet journalists and their advocates and their cover-up artists and their team of thugs should all be struck by lightning and given a decent burial. I’m not taking issue with you, jm, or with anything you have said. I’m just having a righteous tantrum. One of these days I hope I go completely nuts and do what needs done in this world but until then, I enjoy rants.

        • jm says:

          Malisha says: “I’m not taking issue with you, jm, or with anything you have said.”

          Sorry to take it personally but maybe it’s the way the blog is set up where it looks like you are responding to me I just thought there was something in my wording that people were misunderstanding and think I am persuaded to take the defense side because I believe Dee-Dee lied under oath which I have not believed or suggested.

          I don’t know anything close to the rules of the courtroom and what is relevant but watching the Casey Anthony trial and now Jodi Arias, I see how the defense can twist and spin things, taking things out of context in order to avoid a conviction for their client just as MOM and West are doing during these hearings. I don’t want GZ to be free on a technicality that MOM and West can use in a trial. My goal is to see GZ in prison for life, SZ be convicted for a perjury felony and do some time and the rest of this cast of characters on Team Z disappear from public sight.

    • kllypyn says:

      Whether she went to the wake or funeral is irrelevant because it doesn’t change the fact she was talking to trayvon just before he was killed,and heard the start of the confrontation. Whether she went to the wake which was on march 2nd is irrelevant. whether she went to the funeral which was on march 3rd is irrelevant..those have nothing to do with what occurred at 7:16 pm on 2/26/2012.

  25. blushedbrown says:

    Thank you. Great post.

    BBL

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Yes, just as I suspected. Of course, the measure of desperation is how MOM and company pounced upon this, not without some glee, pretending to take the high ground at the press conference, knowing all the while they had nothing.

  26. Follow

    Donation on the way

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