Defendant requests Trayvon Martin’s girlfriend’s medical records

Monday, March 4, 2013

The following motions are scheduled to be heard by Judge Nelson tomorrow beginning at 9 am EST.

1. Defendant’s Motion for Specific Discovery from the FDLE

This is a request for witness biographies (cover sheets) for each witness that, in addition to name, address, and contact information, list social security numbers, Experian credit reports, driving record, non-conviction arrest information and social media sites to which the witness belongs.

This is the FDLE’s memorandum in response to defendant’s request. The prosecution adopts the response as its own.

Comment: Good luck with that. Every criminal defense lawyer would love to have that information, but don’t bet the ranch that this request will be granted

2. Defendant’s Demand for Specific Discovery (3 videos)

Comment: This is a mystery request as I do not know what videos the defense is requesting.

3. Defendant’s Motion for Subpoena Duces Tecum to State Witness, Civilian Witness 8

MOM is requesting DD’s medical records “regarding any and all medical services rendered during the period 2/26/2012 through 4/30/2012” on the ground that the records “are reasonably calculated to lead to relevant admissible evidence.”

This is a conclusory request in the language of the rule that does not explain why he believes those records “are reasonably calculated to lead to relevant admissible evidence.”

Comment: I believe this request is a mean-spirited invasion of privacy to intimidate the witness and I would deny it in the absence of a reasonable explanation why MOM believes those records “are reasonably calculated to lead to relevant admissible evidence.” If Judge Nelson grants this motion, I think she will insist on reviewing the records in camera (chambers) and selecting what the defense will receive, if anything, according to the procedure she followed with the prosecution’s request for the defendant’s medical records.

Here is Judge Nelson’s 6-page order denying the defense motion to depose Benjamin Crump.

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315 Responses to Defendant requests Trayvon Martin’s girlfriend’s medical records

  1. Tzar says:

    West claims the state told him that deedee lied about going to the hospital but the state, in court, declares the issue moot and informs him to depose deedee if he wants any more information. The state however will not confirm his claim.

  2. groans says:

    Now, WHY didn’t the defense come to court with an Amended Motion?!

  3. groans says:

    Hmm. What’s up about that change about going to the hospital? I’m not liking what I’m hearing.

  4. Rachael says:

    What was the 2nd one that was withdrawn?

  5. blushedbrown says:

    I told ya he had those damn videos….

  6. groans says:

    Is the picture really dark to you all?

  7. blushedbrown says:

    And the defense just walked in

  8. blushedbrown says:

    OMG tony Pitione is in court

  9. blushedbrown says:

    Here’s Bernie……

  10. blushedbrown says:

    @Crane-Station

    Is is possible to get just a thread for the hearing, please. Some of the threads already have 200plus comments.

  11. blushedbrown says:

    It’s on I have audio!!!!

  12. fauxmccoy says:

    it’s almost 5 AM here on the left coast folks – i got up early for this hearing (as opposed to my usual stay up all night – i think this is probably better).

    are we ready to rumble? hoodies up!
    (will post a stream when i find one.)

  13. ladystclaire says:

    I can’t help but imagine that, it’s dirty tactics such as the defense is displaying now, as well as slandering an innocent child victim and his family, that more often than not result in a defendant being murdered himself. no matter how much body armor Fogen is wearing to protect his chest, he had better remember that, his obese head is not protected and, his one body guard can’t act against a crack pot on short notice.

    Fogen is dragging this grieving family and their lost loved one through the mud, only because he doesn’t want to pay for his crime. some people don’t take too kindly to BS such as this and, he just might find himself the victim of a direct shot between his eyes and, there are people out there that are mad enough to do something like that with no fear of doing so.

    He is now in fear of HIS miserable life but, he never gave Trayvon’s fear for his own life a second thought. Trayvon didn’t have time to prepare for his life being taken by this crazed POS so therefore, he had no bullet proof vest did he? Fogen had better think about what he is now doing because, slandering a deceased kid who he killed, might just get him more than he bargained for. he himself can be taken out with one to the head and, nobody will have seen a thing from a distance.

    He’s not such a big man without his gun now is he? NO, he is now walking around like scared *COWARD* that he really is. even with his courage in a holster, he would have never followed and confronted a black *MAN* the way he did Trayvon on that night or any night. he knew he was following a child and, that is why he acted in the manner which he did. now the chickens are coming home to roost and the coward is trying all kinds of BS to make others look as bad as he does.

    • manberk says:

      @ladystclair look at all the collateral damage this a hole created for so many ppl. Both families, all the witnesses, the officers under fire, his own wife who’s going to prison, his cousin, his Xs etc etc etc. all based on his obviously poor choices. And this clown and his bro laugh at them all. Real low lives.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I think Fogen is learning a hard lesson – he was man enough to shoot a kid and now he has to be man enough to face the consequences.

  14. SearchingMind says:

    DeeDee does not have to do anything!

    I do not believe that the Motion for subpoena duces tecum for DeeDee’s medical records will succeed – based on the following:

    a. The subpoena is directed to DeeDee NOT to a third party (i.e. medical provider) who is required to keep the records sought with the subpoena. DeeDee is not in possession of such records, as a result of which compliance is impossible. DeeDee does not have to produce anything she does not possess and is ordinarily not required to possess;

    b. The defense has not established the relevance of the information sought. Maybe the defense will make its case during oral arguments. But the Motions as it is now, is quite impotent.

    c. There are other less intrusive means to ascertain whether or not DeeDee visited a medical doctor/psychologist, etc. on the day of Trayvon’s funeral and/or wake or during the twee weeks thereafter. The defense has not shown otherwise.

  15. lsimon3321 says:

    Whether witness 8 went to the hospital or not, has a good credit rating or driving record is immaterial to proving whether GZ killed in self defense or not. I think they want these documents: 1. to prove her existence (I thought they deposed her twice already); 2. prove her age at the time of the killing (I reallly don’t understand what difference it makes if she was 16 or 18 – to prove she or BC lied about her age and therefore everything else?) and 3. guilt. A line from a Jill Scott song: A Long Walk comes to mine (your background, it ain’t squeaky clean…). A lot of ppl have something they feel ashamed of and sometimes this clouds their feelings of worth. If they make her feel bad or insecure about her past (as GZ feels), she might make a weaker witness. It seems to me that his worry about this witness in particular indicates his fear of how much did she actually hear while on the phone. She is considered the State’s best witness, I guess, aside from GZ and they need her to not exist or go away if she does. Perhaps they hope to stress her out like TM’s death did and she won’t make it to trial if subpoenaed. Oh, that evil little fat man. I think the defense’s tactics confirm his guilt; not that I doubted or doubt it. I am crossed between wishing he’d have a serious gastral explosion and die or make it through trial to have an anal explosion.

    • Jun says:

      My guess is she is lawyered up

      I do not think Nelson will allow the medical records of Deedee, however, her and her lawyer have a right to object

      • Xena says:

        @Jun. Judges summarily sign off on subpoena duce tecum. Then, it provides opportunity for the deponent to object and let the court decide. In the same way, Judge Nelson issued the subpoena to Facebook and Twitter. Facebook’s legal counsel told O’Mara in certain terms, “See ya in federal court.”

        Judge Nelson issued the subpoena to 7-Eleven. That doesn’t mean that 7-Eleven still has receipt records from last year to provide to O’Mara. If I’m not mistaken, 7-Eleven is a franchise and O’Mara might need to subpoena the corporate office that might only provide O’Mara with the bank information, account number, and advise him to subpoena the bank for their customers’ personal info. O’Mara is not law enforcement. A credit card receipt is not just proof of purchase. It contains account information that is an agreement between the customer and seller.

        As we have seen with the Feign Team’s effort to depose attorney Crump — subpoenas can be challenged.

    • John says:

      When the police opened their investigation into the death of Trayvon Martin, they must have requested and received the call records and ping records for the phone recovered at the scene and those of any other phone which had been in recent contact with that phone, from the respective cell-phone service providers.
      The cell-tower ping logs would also reveal the presence of any other active cell phones in possible proximity to the crime-scene at the time of the fatal confrontation.
      The police, therefore, using technical means routinely placed at their disposal, should have quickly been able to establish whether or not Trayvon Martin was in contact with anyone, immediately prior to, or during his fatal confrontation and have been able to locate and identify any such person.
      The police, however, did not discover any such person.
      The Martin family and their lawyer discovered the existence of the alleged witness, by examining their phone account call records and noticing the number of a phone in contact with Trayvon Martin, immediately prior to the time of his death.
      The Martin family and their lawyer presented the 16 year old girl-friend referred to by the name Dee Dee (W8) to the public and she gave a televised interview, by phone.
      The Martin family and their lawyer stated that Dee Dee (W8) and her parents did not trust the Sandford police and that she would not make a statement to the Sandford police, despite appeals by the police and District Attorney for her to come forward and make a voluntary statement.
      The police either made no effort to, or, were unable to locate or identify Dee Dee (W8), despite possessing the technical means to do so and instead had to, or chose to, rely upon the Martin family and their lawyers to persuade her to make a statement to Bernie De La Rionde, at Sybrina Fultons’s house, rather than her own.
      The young lady who represented herself as Dee Dee (W8), who was deposed, stated that her age was 18 years old, not 16 years old, as claimed by the Martin family and their lawyers.
      This apparent discrepancy in the age of Dee Dee (W8), together with the apparent inability of the police to discover her actual existence and then assess the possible relevance of her testimony or make any efforts to locate and identify her suggests that the Sandford police are unusually incompetent; or, deliberately negligent; or, that they believe that Dee Dee’s testimony will not be important to the prosecution.
      Even after the discovery of Dee Dee, when questioned by Mark O’Mara, Bernie De La Rionde admitted in court that the prosecution had no evidence which contradicted the defence claim of self-defence.
      This suggests that there are legitimate concerns about the identity of Dee Dee (W8), or admissibility of any of her testimony; otherwise, Bernie De la Rionde would have made no such admission.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Ah, but he said they have the forensics, the shell casing, and defendant statements. Yay!

        On that note, relax and sweet dreams –

      • Jun says:

        When and where did Bernie state that there was nothing that contradicted the claim of self defense?

        According to the affidavit, they have probable cause to believe it was murder 2, therefore, they do not believe it is a case of self defense for the defendant

        While we are at it, what about the cell phone and ping records of the defendant, the phone he had that night?

      • Jun says:

        As for her age

        a) It is not considered perjury to lie about age, unless age is relevant to the criminal or offense charged. Not saying she lied, as I do not know. Her age being stated as 16 or 18 is hearsay at this point anyways.

        b) She was the person the phone with the victim. The phone records match it up and there is also lots of evidence they talked a lot together on the phone.

        c) The defendant also called Trayvon in his late teens and a kid numerous times, then later at his bond hearing, claimed he thought the kid was closer to his age, which in fact is contradictory to a proven testimony of the defendant’s testimony, earlier on, which is an excited utterance. If Omara wants to use that, you can bet the farm, all of Fogenhats claims will come up, including that fib at the first bond hearing.

        d) Their and your claims are based on hearsay and there is no conclusive proof that she claimed to be 16 and then 18 later. You based it on what Crump and The Martin family may have believed her age to be, and perhaps they were simply mistaken. I doubt you can build a strong impeachment case based on Chinese whispers, which is why hearsay is not allowed in court, because you have to take the testimony straight from the person to get to the heart of the matter.

        As for your claim that there is no evidence against the defendant, stated by Bernie, I think you are incorrect

        I believe Gilbreath stated that other than witness testimony, bullet casing, forensics, the body, and the defendant’s statements, they had nothing

        This means they have

        a) The body

        b) The bullet casing

        c) The defendant’s statements

        d) The witnesses

        e) The forensics from the scene

      • Xena says:

        @John. The police could not turn-on Trayvon’s phone. They didn’t know the phone number — nothing.

        Re:

        Even after the discovery of Dee Dee, when questioned by Mark O’Mara, Bernie De La Rionde admitted in court that the prosecution had no evidence which contradicted the defence claim of self-defence.

        This isn’t true. First, O’Mara has no authority to question BDLR. It was actually Gilbreath who was called to the stand and he was asked if there was evidence of who threw the first punch. There is no evidence and in fact, the circumstances of having GZ get out of his truck to follow Trayvon placed Trayvon in a position to feel threatened. This is actually what BDLR argued at the bond hearing; i.e., that Trayvon had the right to stand his ground.

        However, regarding Gilbreath’s testimony, please see the following.

      • PYorck says:

        The police, therefore, using technical means routinely placed at their disposal, should have quickly been able to establish whether or not Trayvon Martin was in contact with anyone, immediately prior to, or during his fatal confrontation and have been able to locate and identify any such person.
        The police, however, did not discover any such person.

        Fortunately we have the discovery and we don’t have to speculate about this.

        The phone records for Trayvon’s phone were requested on 3/27 and provided on 3/28. Then the W8 interview took place on the following Monday, 4/2. On 4/11 charges were filed and GZ was arrested.

      • SearchingMind says:

        @ John (Galt?)

        What is your point?

        If your point is that there was no probable cause to arrest and indict GZ, then either you know something O’Mara does not know or O’Mara must indeed be an imbecile for allowing this GRAVE INJUSTICE to endlessly continue against “a decent American”;

        If your point is that there is no evidence contradicting GZ’s self-defense claim, then either you know something O’Mara does not know or O’Mara must indeed be an imbecile for (a) waiving GZ’s right to speedy trial, (b) not motioning for evidentiary hearing and demanding dismissal of the case, (c) not motioning for immunity hearing and demanding dismissal and immunity from prosecution and civil liability, (d) in fact seriously hinting that there will be no such hearings and (e) demanding for continuance, thereby allowing this GRAVE INJUSTICE to continue against “a decent American” – with no end in sight;

        If your point is that DeeDee does not exist, then you MUST know something O’Mara does not know, because O’Mara has MET DeeDee IN PERSON and had a conversation with her and could have deposed her for almost a year ago!

        Again, what EXACTLY is the case you seek to make?

      • Manberk says:

        @john Besides your other nonsense, BDLR didn’t say any such thing about the evidence. It was Dan Gailbreth. And he didn’t say he had no evidence, lol. MOM asked him if he had any MORE evidence after he already said he had the defendants lies, his profiling the young man, the audio of his cursing the young man out, the chase, the witness testimony regarding an angry man and an angy tone, an eye witness to 1 person chasing another and a body found no where near where the accused said the incident took place. To which MOM said “anything else” and Gailbreth chuckled and said no. It was enough.

      • Tzar says:

        John…you’ve made a horrible mistake…

      • Pro-defendant talking points that either contradict the known evidence or are not supported by any evidence are not helpful to anyone, distracting, and waste everyone’s time.

        BDLR never “admitted in court” that the prosecution “had no evidence which contradicted the defence claim of self-defence.”

        Detective Gilbreath admitted at the probable cause hearing almost one year ago that the police could not contradict the defendant’s claim that Trayvon Martin threw the first punch.

        The identity of the person who threw the first punch is only one of many factors that must be considered in determining who was the aggressor and whether the prosecution had probable cause to charge the defendant with second degree murder. The law requires consideration of the totality of the circumstances to determine the answers to those two questions.

        The totality of the circumstances starts with the defendant stalking Trayvon Martin, first in a vehicle and then hunting him down on foot after Trayvon eluded him by running behind a building containing townhouses.

        The defendant hunted him down with the intent of preventing him from escaping, just like all of the “fucking coons” (or “punks” if you prefer) and “assholes” who had previously gotten away.

        He admitted that he never identified himself as a neighborhood watch person, so Trayvon Martin had no idea who he was.

        We know he was afraid of the defendant because he ran away from him.

        Trayvon Martin was a guest staying at Brandi Green’s residence in the neighborhood. He had a right to be where he was at all times and his actions as described by the defendant were not suspicious.

        The defendant had no legal right or justifiable reason to interfere with Trayvon’s right to the peaceful enjoyment of the neighborhood in which he was then living and had a right to be.

        The defendant had no legal right or justifiable reason to touch, much less attempt to detain Trayvon Martin.

        Trayvon Martin had the right to use reasonable force in self-defense to resist the defendant’s use of force to detain him, including the use of deadly force, since deadly force was used against him.

        Whether Trayvon Martin threw the first punch is not particularly relevant because he had a legally justifiable right to do so, given the defendant’s menacing behavior that provoked the confrontation.

        The defendant lied about where the confrontation took place to conceal what he did. It actually took place 40 feet south of where he said it did and that location was heading away from and not toward his vehicle.

        Finally, if you believe there is no Dee Dee, you are in for a big shock so you better get ready to deal with it.

        I suggest you read the discovery instead of repeating pro-defendant talking points.

        If you persist in regurgitating that nonsense, I will ban you.

      • Malisha says:

        It is obvious why the police didn’t find DeeDee; they did not want there to be any witnesses who would say that the “self-defense” story they were promoting conflicted with facts. Not until after FDLE got involved was it possible for actual ear-witnesses or eye-witnesses to give their real stories to the police and have any assurance that their statements would not be tampered with. NONE of this means DeeDee doesn’t exist; it means that the SPD is guilty of corruption. Many witnesses observed that the police were trying to change their stories, influence their stories, and ignore their stories before FDLE got involved.

      • John says:

        BDLR never “admitted in court” that the prosecution “had no evidence which contradicted the defence claim of self-defence.”
        Detective Gilbreath admitted at the probable cause hearing almost one year ago that the police could not contradict the defendant’s claim that Trayvon Martin threw the first punch.
        You are correct. It was Detective Gilbreath.
        The identity of the person who threw the first punch is only one of many factors that must be considered in determining who was the aggressor and whether the prosecution had probable cause to charge the defendant with second degree murder. The law requires consideration of the totality of the circumstances to determine the answers to those two questions.
        Until someone threw the first punch, neither Trayvon Martin nor the defendant were doing anything illegal. Both were acting lawfully. The unlawful behaviour only began when someone threw a punch at someone else.
        The totality of the circumstances starts with the defendant stalking Trayvon Martin, first in a vehicle and then hunting him down on foot after Trayvon eluded him by running behind a building containing townhouses.
        I do not think that the term stalking is appropriate in this circumstance. Following someone at a distance and reporting upon their movements, without seeking an actual confrontation seems to be routine behaviour for neighbourhood watch type people seeing strangers in their neighbourhood.
        The defendant hunted him down with the intent of preventing him from escaping, just like all of the “fucking coons” (or “punks” if you prefer) and “assholes” who had previously gotten away.
        The defendant followed Trayvon Martin, but lost him. He then moved in a direction which may have allowed him to see where Trayvon Martin went. This does not however prove that he had any intention of making close contact or attempting to detain Trayvon Martin. The inflammatory racial epithets were a media creation, but which were widely believed, nonetheless.
        He admitted that he never identified himself as a neighbourhood watch person, so Trayvon Martin had no idea who he was.
        I have never been able to understand why he did not. If he had done so, perhaps events would have transpired in a different manner. In such circumstances, I think that Trayvon Martin would possibly still be alive.
        We know he was afraid of the defendant because he ran away from him.
        I very much doubt that Trayvon martin, at over six feet in height and a former football player was ever afraid of the defendant, who is much shorter and not particularly athletic.
        Trayvon Martin was a guest staying at Brandi Green’s residence in the neighborhood. He had a right to be where he was at all times and his actions as described by the defendant were not suspicious.
        Both Trayvon Martin and the defendant had a right to be where they were, at all times.
        The actions which make one person suspicious about another are often truly innocuous and perfectly legal, but suspicion is aroused at an unconscious level.
        Often suspicion is aroused by actions which are later revealed to be innocuous.
        There were burglaries in the neighbourhood. Strangers are therefore automatically suspicious.
        The defendant had no legal right or justifiable reason to interfere with Trayvon’s right to the peaceful enjoyment of the neighborhood in which he was then living and had a right to be.
        This is true.
        The defendant had no legal right or justifiable reason to touch, much less attempt to detain Trayvon Martin.
        This is also true. I am unaware of any evidence or admission that he made any effort to touch or detain Trayvon Martin.
        Trayvon Martin had the right to use reasonable force in self-defense to resist the defendant’s use of force to detain him, including the use of deadly force, since deadly force was used against him.
        Trayvon Martin, had the right to use reasonable force in self-defence, only after he was touched by the defendant. Although this is possibly true, I do not believe that the defendant has admitted this. There are no witnesses who could provide legal proof that the defendant unlawfully touched or tried to detain Trayvon Martin.
        Whether Trayvon Martin threw the first punch is not particularly relevant because he had a legally justifiable right to do so, given the defendant’s menacing behavior that provoked the confrontation.
        I disagree. Until the defendant did something which was obviously unlawful, such as grabbing or attempting to detain him, the use of force is unlawful.
        The defendant lied about where the confrontation took place to conceal what he did. It actually took place 40 feet south of where he said it did and that location was heading away from and not toward his vehicle.
        I think that once the fight started, the direction in which both parties travelled is utterly unpredictable.
        Finally, if you believe there is no Dee Dee, you are in for a big shock so you better get ready to deal with it.
        I unsure whether Dee Dee exists, or not. It seems, however that there is a tremendous mystery about her.
        The existence of Dee Dee was announced on 18/3.
        The phone records for Trayvon’s phone were requested on 3/27.
        This is something which I think makes the police seem either incompetent or deliberately negligent. It cannot be accidental in the circumstances when it was so important for Dee Dee to make a statement to police, rather than media. It seems to serve an agenda of some form.
        I suggest you read the discovery instead of repeating pro-defendant talking points.
        If you persist in regurgitating that nonsense, I will ban you.
        It is your blog.
        The right of the defendant to the presumption of innocence means that all ambiguous evidence must be interpreted in favour of the defendant.
        If the police had arrived a minute earlier, they would have halted the fight while it was still in progress.
        Doubtless, each would have blamed the other for starting the fight.
        Doubtless, also, the witness statements would have been identical to those which currently exist, with the exception that there was no gunshot and Trayvon Martin would still be alive.
        In these circumstances, each could face trial for assaulting the other.
        In the trial of each, the prosecution would be required to prove the guilt of the defendant.
        I believe that if this circumstance had arisen, both juries would have been compelled to find in favour of the defendant, since there would be insufficient proof of guilt.
        In a trial, the prosecution narrative may possibly be substantially correct, but each and every aspect must be proven in such a manner that no possible interpretation of fact could be in favour of the defendant.
        I was previously advised by my lawyer, that if juries adopted my standards of proof, that no-one could ever be found guilty.
        I consider the witness statements to be inconclusive and contradictory.
        I believe that the case will be determined by the analysis of the phone ping records, or GPS.
        I think that these will unambiguously prove that either the prosecution narrative is false or the defence narrative is false, with very little scope for misinterpretation. This will leave no doubt in the minds of a jury which verdict to return.
        If I am correct in this, then the partisan supporters of the prosecution or the defendant should have no difficulty accepting the verdict. They will just accept that the evidence supports no other conclusion.

        • Xena says:

          @John

          Until someone threw the first punch, neither Trayvon Martin nor the defendant were doing anything illegal.

          Trevor Dooley was in his driveway washing his car. David James was on the basketball court shooting hoops with his daughter. Neither were doing anything illegal. Trevor left his garage and walked over to the basketball court with a loaded gun in his pocket after James mouthed off at Dooley.

          James knocked Dooley to the ground. And guess what? James even went for Dooley’s gun.

          The jury found that Dooley was the aggressor, and found him guilty of manslaughter. The jury applied the facts to the law; i.e., had Dooley not left his driveway with a loaded gun and walked to the basketball court because James mouthed off at him, the two would not have come into physical contact. The jury also found that James had the right to defend himself because he saw Dooley as a threat.

          If not but for the fact that GZ got out of his vehicle to follow Trayvon, the two would not have come into physical contact. GZ is the aggressor. That is also why O’Mara abandoned a stand your ground defense on behalf of GZ. He has now also abandoned the immunity hearing for traditional self-defense.

        • Xena says:

          @John

          I believe that the case will be determined by the analysis of the phone ping records, or GPS.

          How about this:
          Dispatcher: “Are you following him?”
          Zimmerman: “Yeah.”

        • manberk says:

          @John “I THINK and I BELIEVE there is evidence in discovery I haven’t seen (ie ping logs, GPS data etc)” is nothing a jury will hear. Why would anyone accept evidence you cant produce? Theres nothing ambiguous about “f’ng a-hole punk coon I’m now running after”!

        • cielo62 says:

          John- take your ping records back to CTH. You have ignored do much forensic evidence all you have done is shown yourself to be a lazy fool who can’t be bothered to do your homework. This case is more than “he said” type evidence. If you can’t see that, then you will also get a rude weakening come trial date.

          Sent from my iPod

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Wrong, they were not both legal until the first punch was thrown. It is illegal to act in a manner that will cause others around you to fear for their own safety. GZ did that when he revealed his following of Trayvon at the mail shed. At that point he clearly caused Trayvon to report to DD that he was frightened and concerned for his own well being, such that he would alter his route to get home. Actually leaving the mail shed, where he had been enjoying cover from the rain, to move through rain, that was heavier than when he arrived.

          GZ, then illegally escalated the hostile atmosphere he created, by refusing to identify himself to Trayvon, and thus settle his fears. GZ says that Trayvon walked up to his car and he rolled down the window. GZ then says that Trayvon asked him why he was following him, and GZ says he replied that he wasn’t following Trayvon, which was a lie, and he then rolled up the window terminating the conversation. Only to jump out of his vehicle, for the admitted purpose of following Trayvon again. That is not legal! GZ was committing a crime when he first revealed himself to Trayvon.

      • manberk says:

        @Malisha Great point. The actions of the SPD express clearly they were not looking for evidence to contradict Fogens lies. Aside from insisting they were wrong about who they heard screaming, we had witnesses like #18 who couldnt even get Serino to look out her window at where the shooting took place. As the only person who saw the end of the struggle, thats kinda odd! I mean Santiago in all his dumbness admitted they didnt look or listen to most evidence when determining their charge. It is what it is.

      • manberk says:

        @John if before there was a punch, which there’s no evidence of BTW, nothing unlawful was taking place then there is really no reason for Fogen to have called the police and chased the poor innocent kid who lived a few blocks away, eh? You only know Trayvon behaved lawfully because it was determined after the shooting took place. Making Fogen wrong.

        If you don’t like pics f TM at a young age why would you try to use his youthful activities like playing football to paint him as something he wasn’t? Fogen that night said he did NOT look like an athlete or someone who trained. Oh, besides that he wasn’t over 6 foot tall. He was 5’11. He was 17. He did not play football. He sold hotdogs at the games. 5’11 is average height. And only 1 inch smaller than the height Fogen portrayed himself as (of course he was lying, but still!) But if we want to use his past to express who he was, note the lack of violence in your own description. So lets also use the accused murderers past over the same time span and using evidence currently in discovery: he chased people by car and by foot previously, he has multiple red marks on his legal profile including charges of felony assault, and assault on a women. Violent offenses. He was also trained not to follow people thru his NW training. By his own admission he is caught on tape engaged in following someone you called behaving lawfully, and even going so far as to jump out of his truck and run after him (only in his denial did that not happen).

        And you conclude the kid (as Fogen referred to him) was more likely to be the aggressor than the accused criminal because he played football several years early before he hit puberty? LOL. Partisan is right. Where is the scrutiny of the accused murderers past? What about the recording of the violent criminal using hostile language directed at the kid who was behaving unlawfully? Do we just forget all that because he played Bitty Football?

        Oh, one more thing, you cant claim TM was a scary football player when Fogen himself said multiple times he caused him no fear. As exemplified by his foot chase.

        The law doesn’t require that you touch someone to break it. Fogen admitted following the kid by car even after he said the kid seemed concerned, tried to talk to him, then ran. Chasing someone by car causing them fear at the least is/could be harassment in FL. Now on the flip side, even in your version, getting popped in the nose is not means to justify murder. Period. Theres the whole like force, reasonable!! fear thing. Fogen didn’t say he shot TM because of the punch. He said he “felt” that TM saw his gun. Hmmm. According to the accused murderer’s own story TM did not just hit him. Fogen reached into his front pocket first, where his phone mysteriously disappeared from but where his gun just happened to be. It was after he lifted his jacket to reach into his pocket the same location where later he would say his gun would also be exposed, that he claims TM punched him. So if TM were alive I’m certain he would use the same argument “he went for his gun, I feel he was going for him gun”. And guess what? He would have been right.

  16. ladystclaire says:

    This O’mara as well as the old grey dude are stomping on my last nerve, by the things they are asking of these witnesses and especially W-8. DeeDee was on the phone when Fogen began his aggressive confrontation of Trayvon and that is all there is to it. no amount of anything that they are now asking for is going to change that fact.

    He killed a child and now he thinks he should get away with it. WHAT AN ASS HE TRULY IS!

  17. Imagine a panel of 6 DeeDees.

    Imagine MOM, West and the fogen each quizzing them 2 minutes at a time through 3 cycles to see if one of them can guess the right DeeDee.

  18. ChrisNY~Laurie says:

    I can not wait forl tomorrow to hear what Judge Nelson has to say about this motion for a subpoena for witness 8’s medical records, but I am more interested in hearing the defense’s reason for why they want them.

    Some of us are under the impression that the defense is on a wild goose chase with all of these crazy motions directed from the Treehouse, when in realty, or what I am begining to see, is that they are preparing themselves to pull a Jose Baez.

    Jose came in with an outrageous opening statement accusing Casey Anthony’s father of molesting her when she was a child, finding Caylee’s body in the pool and then disposing the baby’s body. It was the craziest thing I had ever heard and I remember sitting here with my mouth open in shock and disgust. What he did that day though, was put George Anthony in the jurors minds, so when throughout the trial the defense brought witnesses in attacking George Anthony’s character they made him look questionable as a decent father/grandfather, the defense had the jury not thinking of the defendant Casey Anthony as much as they were thinking of her father George Anthony. This made the jury question what the State had on Casey. This put some doubt in the jurors mind, because they were too focused on George Anthony. Smoke and Mirrors.

    If the defense can get away with it, they are going to try and do the exact same thing Baez did. I think that they are going to try and take the focus off of Fogen and the evidence by bringing an exciting conspiracy theory into the courtroom. They will tell the jury that he was only arrested to quiet down protesters and Crump made up a witness to help get that arrest, that the SPD is corrupt and Angela Corey wants political gain. Crump is going to be George Anthony. They will try to make the Jury focus on him.

    Of course, I could be 100% wrong, but they have nothing else and I honestly believe that is why they have been filing these ridiculous motions. I do not believe for one moment that MOM and West are this lazy or incompetent. I do not believe that they would allow themselves to look as such if they didn’t think that they had a trick up their sleeve. If it’s not that, then they are filing these motions to throw the prosecution off. Either way, I hope BDLR is prepared and ready for them.

    This is just my opinion at this time. look forward to chatting with you all during the hearing tomorrow since I don’t have to work. yay

    • Jun says:

      I do not know how they would throw attention off of Fogenhats when they know 100% that he did it LMAO

      I never paid attention to the Caylee murder but fact is, they could not pinpoint the killer as either George or Casey, because either party had access and opportunity for the crime

      There’s so much forensic evidence against the defendant, as well as witnesses against the defendant that it sounds like a longshot

      Corey has dealt with this before

      Marissa Alexander pulled off the media stunts

      The old white dude who shot at teenagers pulled off the same stunts

      Fogenhats’ defense is self defense

      He is alleging facts against Trayvon with no proof

      Trayvon remains innocent until proven guilty and considering the evidence there is reasonable doubt in the Fogenhat claims

      IMO Omara’s only hope is tampering with the jury but I am guessing that is highly illegal

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Jun, not to mention the FACT that they don’t know how Caylee died. I did keep up with that case as well and, what Baez did should have been against everything that the American justice stands for. there are a lot of people out there who could care less about the truth coming out in this case. those with the pointy heads only want to see this POS get away with killing an AA child.

        How lowdown of these people when, there are white kids being killed as well and, I have never heard of or witnessed any AA wanting to see the guilty person get away with the murder of any white kid. this just goes to show how *ignorant* some of these people can really be. I’m not speaking of all whites so, I hope my comment is not taken out of context as one was on Saturday.

        I’m only speaking of those who are supporting this POS and his crime. AA have feelings to and they are also human beings as well. this child cried and begged for his life and, this lying murderer still took his life. for those who think what he did was right, they are no better than he is.

      • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

        I don’t mean to bring up Casey Anthony, the two cases have nothing in common and I certainly don’t want to discuss her here ..I just wanted to point out how Baez threw the jury off by turning it into a trial of George Anthony. He put George Anthony in the jurors head and then spent a large amount of his defense testimony focused on George Anthony.

        I know and agree that there is so much forensic evidence against Fogen and that is why I think that they will try to do what Baez did. They have nothing else. They have to try to confuse the jury and get them to think that someone else is the deceitful one, that Fogen is a victim of their evil intentions of accusing him of killing Trayvon in anything but self defense. They have no other way to get the jury to forget about the evidence. According to the defense, they haven’t even hired any experts to dispute all of the evidence…is that crazy or what? Why would any attorney not have already had these experts ready? They have to be hired, give their expert opinion and be deposed by the State before trial…I think that’s how it works. 😉

        I guess that I am just trying to figure out MOM and West.

      • Jun says:

        IMO

        I think Omara is just going to attack all the witnesses and the evidence, however, the forensic and witnesses, all line up with each other

        This is what is working against Omara

        a) It is beyond a shadow of a doubt that Fogenhats killed this kid by shooting the kid

        b) Omara can not really submit any claim of self defense without Fogenhats testifying

        c) Fogenhats has a long history of manipulation and lying to the public and the court and the law

        d) Fogenhats has a history of violent altercations and run ins with the law. Anything Omara says about any of the witnesses or the victim, can be done back to him.

        e) Fogenhats stalked Trayvon from the clubhouse onward, by his own admission to doing so.

        f) I have not seen the GPS records but I am willing to bet it blows away anything that Omara claims or Fogenhats claims

        g) The witnesses do not support a self defense theory for the defendant. At least 4 or 5 of the witnesses state it is a kid screaming. The rest, with the exception of witness 6 & 11, state that the screams for help were ended with a gunshot.

        h) Witness 6, whether believed or not, did not witness the altercation from the beginning to end. This witness also have 4 or 5 different stories, none of which aligns with the other witness testimonies nor does it match up with forensic evidence.

        i) Fogenhats gave 10 or 20 different stories, all of which do not line up with the evidence, either forensics or witnesses.

        j) Whatever Junior or Pops says is irrelevant because they were not there and neither party can be objective and honest

        k) There is no forensic evidence that Trayvon ever attacked the defendant at all

        l) If Omara pulls any conspiracy theory nonsense, it will not divert attention away, because Omara has nothing credible to back up his assertions. Omara was not there and anything he says is not objective. Omara has to prove that Trayvon attacked and instigated and created the situation that concluded with a killing. There is reasonable doubt in his allegations against Trayvon, therefore, Trayvon is innocent of any wrongdoing, and that only leaves the killing Fogenhats did.

        I can see how it happened in the Casey Anthony case, of what Baez did, however, that case, there was truly nothing that pinpointed her, and it could have very well have been George who did it as well… the case is not a who done it

        • Xena says:

          @Jun

          Omara has to prove that Trayvon attacked and instigated and created the situation that concluded with a killing.

          O’Mara has changed his strategy and GZ’s defense somewhat. O’Mara realizes that GZ is the aggressor. He also realizes that Trayvon saw GZ as a threat and had the right to protect himself.

          What O’Mara now has to prove is that GZ could not get away from Trayvon. That is contradicted by GZ’s own statements of events after he was on the ground with Trayvon purportedly on top of him, which are:
          1. GZ was able to move his body. He moved his body until his head was no longer on the sidewalk. There was nothing preventing GZ from continuing to move his body from underneath Trayvon.

          2. Moving his body caused his jacket to raise, revealing his gun. Therefore, GZ;s clothes were not restrained nor were they torn, indicating that Trayvon’s knees were not restraining GZ from moving.

          3. He “felt” that Trayvon was going for the gun, thereby conveying that GZ’s body was free from his hips up.

          4. He stated that he pinned Trayvon’s arm to prevent him from reaching the gun. Yet, GZ unholstered a holstered gun.

          5. Having the gun in his right hand, GZ made sure that his left hand was not in the path of the bullet, thereby admitting that he was not only free from the waist up, but that both his arms and hands were free as well.

          That is not being pinned. Being pinned is being unable to move and more specifically, unable to use your arms and hands to defend yourself.

      • Jun says:

        Well if that is the case

        Title XLVI
        CRIMES
        Chapter 776
        JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE
        View Entire Chapter

        776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
        (1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
        (2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
        (a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
        (b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

        If Trayvon even attempted to pin Fogenhats on the ground, Fogenhats had no reasonable belief that he was in danger of death or great bodily harm, and Fogenhats never exhausted every reasonable means of escape, and Fogenhats never attempted to withdraw from the struggle

        IMO, Fogenhats also fails at (1) because technically, he was attempting commit, was committing, and trying to be escaping after the commission of a forcible felony as IMO he was aggravated stalking Trayvon, and the fact he attacked Trayvon with a gun out and made threats to Trayvon’s safety, that also makes it aggravated assault

        However Fogenhats was never beneath Trayvon for any period of time IMO according to the forensics and the witnesses

        • Xena says:

          @Jun. IMO, O’Mara and GZ become more nervous as criminal defendants are denied immunity because at the immunity hearing is where the defense learns of the State’s evidence. Take for instance, the Orr case. Blood splatter evidence was presented and the judge considered that in denying Orr immunity.

          Now, take that photo of GZ’s nose showing blood and along with his statements, there should be blood splatter on his and Trayvon’s clothing. I mean, punch after punch after punch while his head is moving away off the concrete, and no blood splatter. Nose bleeding like crazy while Trayvon is punching and smothering him, and none of his blood on Trayvon’s hands or shirt sleeves.

          Is MOM nervous about the evidence against GZ? You bet he is, but he has to do something to appease GZ who blames others for his actions and decisions. Before trial is over with, MOM will argue in court that someone else attacked GZ causing GZ to shoot Trayvon by accident.

      • Tzar says:

        @Xena

        Before trial is over with, MOM will argue in court that someone else attacked GZ causing GZ to shoot Trayvon by accident.

        I can totally see it

    • Rachael says:

      That is the only thing I can think too. Throw up some crazy awful smoke screen that no one can see beyond to see GZ or what he did. It makes sense, seeing how he is already dragging Trayvon snd his family through the mud.

      • Jun says:

        LMAO that would be an incredible smokescreen considering

        a) Fogenhats was caught redhanded killing a kid

        b) Fogenhats had the murder weapon and the GSR and the witnesses saying he shot the kid

        c) Fogenhats admitted he killed the kid

        d) Fogenhats staged a self defense claim

        e) Fogenhats and Omara are known liars, even the Conservative Tinfoil Hat says Omara is a liar

      • Rachael says:

        He seems to be doing everything he can to keep all eyes everywhere but on his client.

      • Jun says:

        I only somewhat know court laws as I am learning from here but

        Can’t the state object on relevancy at trial or SYG?

        If Omara attempts to divert

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I think you’re 100% right, but Judge Nelson isn’t going to allow it.

  19. Hey Rachel!

    What’s LLMPapa’s link to his blog? Anyone know?

  20. Rachael says:

    Does anyone know if this is going to be televised – or streamed or whatever you call it?

    • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

      I don’t know if they will have it on In Session because of the Jodi Arias coverage. I’m sure it will be live streamed try CNN live, or Fox Orlando. When I find it in the morning I will post a link.

  21. blushedbrown says:

    @Professor

    Maybe this post will shed some light on those three videos.

    http://dothprotesttoomuch.com/2013/02/14/lets-go-to-the-video-tapes/

  22. Jun says:

    Here is Knox’s article and blog, where he is angry with LLMPAPA

    http://knoxforensics.blogspot.ca/2013/03/llmpapas-bullet-hole-misalignment.html

    and here is my reply to him, if he even lets it go on the blog

    Let us be real Knox, you got schooled and you made mistakes, many I might add, on your forensic and evidence readings

    a) The trajectory was straight front to back. The bullet holes in both the sweater and the hoodie were by the shoulder. The GSW was just slightly above the solar plexus. The only way for it to align is by someone, the defendant, tugging the shirt downward and to the right of the victim’s body.

    b) Your test on TV, was not conducted using gravity. You conducted a test with a cardboard cutout with a Tshirt on it, which was supposed to represent Trayvon’s hoodie and undershirt. You held it standing up in front of the GSW target. If anything, you just proved that the hoodie was held in front of the victim’s body with your test, while shot.

    c) It stated 2 x 2 inch stippling, not more than two inches

    d) You claimed that the defendant’s timeline did not line up, and then quickly later on, used his own testimony as truth. How can you claim the defendant’s story is questionable and then buy his story later on, in your conclusions?

    e) Trayvon Martin, the victim, was the only party, with grass and other debris on his body and clothing. The defendant had no grass stains whatsoever on the back of his pants of jacket.

    f) Check the NEN call. The defendant clearly admitted that he was by the clubhouse when he started the altercation, by stalking the victim. By the defendant’s own admission, the victim started running toward’s the back entrance, from the clubhouse area, and the defendant, got out of his car, and called the victim a “fucking punk/coon” while pursuing the victim foot. You keep forgetting the fact that, Trayvon’s venture home could have been affected by the actions of the defendant, thereby presenting him difficulty in getting home, ie, such as when he clearly admitted to stalking and pursuing the victim by car and on foot.

    Take a note from Song Ci, the father of forensics, and make your findings more accurate and more in tune with the tests you conduct, otherwise be happy you are not sworn in a courtroom, otherwise you could get in trouble for attempting to pervert justice.

    • blushedbrown says:

      @Jun

      ((((((Applause)))))))

      I noticed he is not letting in comments, hmmmm I wonder why 😈

    • Rachael says:

      Hahahahaha Papa really got to him!!

    • Jun says:

      Whoops, made on typo

      …. “fucking punk/coon” while pursuing the victim foot…

      I meant “on foot”

      btw Thanks

      I hope he lets it on and I can talk to him, as my theory is his motivation is to sell snake oil to the Zidiots

    • kllypyn says:

      Also it would have been impossible for Trayvon to do the things zimmurderpunk said he did unless a… he laid there and let him do it and b..trayvon grew an extra set of arms and developed superhuman powers and did all that simultaneously.Head repeatedly slammed into the ground for nearly a minute and was smothered and punche din the face 30-40 times. All in less than a minute.

      • groans says:

        Yes.

        And I’ve also always chuckled at the characterization that Trayvon supposedly slammed the killer’s head on the sidewalk to the point that the killer “almost lost consciousness.”

        It reminds me of old jokes about giving directions – for example: “Turn right before the third stoplight.”

        🙄

      • ladystclaire says:

        @groans, who ever helped Fogen come up with that ball faced lie, should have their head examined for that one. there is no way that a human head could withstand such and, they were no where near a walk way. it’s one thing for the POS to kill a kid in cold blood as he begged for his life, but to lie on him is taking things too damn far. I still say that there is something suspicious about Osterman and Taaffe both.

        IMO, when they talk about the events of that night, they both have a nervousness about them that is hard to overlook. just think back to Osterman’s demeanor when he was on the Dr. Phil show and, how Taaffe’s demeanor was when he appeared on certain programs. they both had a guilty look to them IMO. they were a part of what happened that night and, before all is said and done, they will both be exposed. Taaffe made the comment that he didn’t give anything up during his interview with the FBI.

        This is one sick and dangerous *idiot!*

      • Malisha says:

        Oh how did he do all the things that he dood,
        oh how did he do all those things?
        The things that his murderer cried and boo-hood,
        the sorrows and torments he sings?

        “Oh poor poor lil me,” his great opera intones,
        “I was buked and scorned and nose-broked!”
        And more he complains, the more he explains
        how the tears have his memory soaked.

        “He hurt me, he punched me, he smothered my face!”
        Poor Fogen is whining and crying.
        “And if all that abusing were not bad enough,
        now the state is insisting I’m LYING!”

    • groans says:

      Wow – Thanks, Jun!

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Good work Jun… After noting that Knox appears at this late date, after MOM has complained that he has no experts. It seems logical that perhaps a man with these credentials, would be offering his services to the defense. Obviously his books do not appear to be doing very well. I would venture a guess that most of his funds come from testifying in court.

      Thus, before he sacrificed himself on the alter of cash, it seems reasonable that he’d test the waters before entering a high profile case, where he needs to munge or “massage” the forensics to achieve the desired results.

    • cielo62 says:

      Jun~ MONUMENTAL applause! Concise and cutting! UNLIKE Knox’s silly tripe.

  23. Tee says:

    MOM, is simply trying to get to Mr. Crump by the way of Dee Dee. IMO, he’s trying another angle to try to get the court to allow him to depose Mr. Crump, by showing that Mr. Crump & Dee Dee was lying about Dee Dee whereabouts the day of the funeral. He wants to say if they lied about that there must be a conspiracy going on between the two and I must be allowed to depose Mr. Crump for that reason.

    • Jun says:

      To be correct, Bernie asked Wake or Funeral, and it is irrelevant and would be struck out as inadmissible anyways

  24. colin black says:

    Frederick Leatherman says:

    March 4, 2013 at 8:39 pm

    I fished your comment out of jail. At least I think I did.

    Let me know if there still is a problem.

    Reply
    Nah no probs it was my fault everything is copasetic my end about to crash . nite all.

  25. Xena says:

    The links to the docs are not working for me.

    Re: DeeDee’s medical history. Well, here we go again with O’Mara not understanding the difference between a wake and a funeral. It might be good for the State to add the funeral home director as a witness to educate O’Mara’s stupid behind on culture outside of the world of Zidiots who instigated this crap.

  26. Rachael says:

    I would like to see GZ’s work evaluations from his last 3 jobs.

  27. towerflower says:

    I thought the 3 videos he was looking for were the security tapes from Sam’s, Kohl’s, and the Apart. complex. He complained that the ones he got from the State were blank.

    .

  28. ay2z says:

    To the 3 videos, wasnt there some request for videos from stores such as Best Buy,? I seem to remember something about that.

    • groans says:

      I believe you’re correct. Maybe stores and/or apartment complexes.

      Aren’t these the surveillance videos that became so VERY URGENT to the defense when they finally got around to noticing (a full MONTH after they received them) that the CDs are supposedly blank?

  29. ladystclaire says:

    Why the hell is it that Casey Anthony had to be present during all court proceedings concerning her murder case, yet this SLIME BALL gets to pick and choose when he will and will not show up for hearings. it seems like he has been given him the kid glove treatment from the very beginning of this case.

    If he his reason for not showing up is because of his wide load, that is all his fault. like it’s all his fault that he killed a child in cold blood and now lying about it to keep from paying for what he caused. there is no excuse for him to gain that kind of weight seeing that he has time to exercise before his curfew is up. he can gain one hundred more pounds for all I care. have you guys noticed how mask like is face looks? he honestly looks like a damn pig in the face.

  30. colin black says:

    blushedbrown says:

    March 4, 2013 at 5:55 pm

    @Colin

    Excellent post!

    Reply
    Thanks Imblushedblack now.
    Should a read the one that gott away phooft

    To the innerweb ether I tried to recreate the one that messed up an wordpress bounced it because I think my cat added an i in front of my email.
    Sound like someone we know blameing my loyal Moggy for mine own dunbkopph mess up.
    At least I never blamed Rof or Crane this time.

    Thing is my big tabby Toerag loves snuggles an cuddles .
    An electric toothbrush to the rear of his tail an groomed with it.
    Although he has been nutered a swear his eyes cross an he looks orgasmic.

    No Im no kitty fiddler.
    He has his own personal groomimg kit fine comb to take out any mollting.
    I do that in the garden because if Ihad a spinndle you could knit an overcoat with how much hair comes loose.
    Couple days later an its all back again.

    When Im doing the road outside resembles a western ghost town with tons of tumblweed blowing through.

    When he hears me brushing my teeth he useally comes bolting to demand some buzzin.
    Any idea what time tomorrows hearing is due to start.

  31. Tzar says:

    woohoo
    notifications are back

  32. Tavia Anderson says:

    MOM is a sick and twisted individual. What does Dee Dee’s medical records have to do with anything? Fogen medical records are all that matter. Remember MOM how all of his vitals were normal after murdering Trayvon? What makes him think he would need access to her medical records, can someone help me understand this request?

    • Tzar says:

      He’s a divorce lawyer
      sounds like typical scorned spouse tactic

    • Rachael says:

      He’s just trying to appease his outhouse audience that he is doing something, even if it is stupid.

    • Jun says:

      Omara is trying to make the issue more complex than necessary with irrelevant information

      IMO, she does not have to give him squat, and if she is forced too, that makes Omara’s medical records fair game as well, his SIN, his other personal information, to be given to the witness’ lawyers

      What is good for the goose is good for the gander

      Good thing though is whatever he tries to make admissible and relevant can be done back to him

  33. ChrisNY~Laurie says:

    Thank you so much for this thread Professor. This topic was really bothering me. :))

  34. cielo62 says:

    >^..^<
    I know each defendant has the right to a vigorous defense but these tactics are just vicious, mean and low. Just when you think they can't get more evil or desperate, they come up with shit like this. I'm confident that Judge Nelson will once again slam them into their place.

    • Rachael says:

      They are not only mean, vicious and low, they are pointless. The only purpose they serve is…well, they serve no purpose at all other than look like he is doing something, wasting court time and taxpayer money.

  35. Trained Observer says:

    “Shrug no dissrespectin you boys an gals in blue but Im needed on the bench.” …)

    Colin … loved it when Fogen was mouthing off about his judgeship goal … as if ….

    Maybe during the course of his trial, Fogen can give Judge Nelson some pointers on her performance … } …} …}

  36. bettykath says:

    Lesson from the motion for witnesses’ bios and FDLE response: the difference between a very inadequately written motion and a well written response. This is the second obvious example, the first being the inadequate motion to depose an attorney and the well written response. There are probably others that can be cited, but these two examples bring it home for me.

  37. colin black says:

    Witnesses Medical records are not relevant.

    Besides Medical info is confidential between patient an Doctor.Whether DD is pregnat on the pill as contraseptive is no ones dam biz.
    Not mine not yours an most certainly not fogen the suspect defendant accused.
    Many young girls take the pill simply to regulate there menstreal cycle.An nothing to do with sexxxuall activity.
    But its still no ones buisness.

    His medical recors are relevant though as he is the one on trial .
    The suspect the accussed an oneday sooon convicted.
    As he refused to go to hospital after Trayvon rained down blows to his face.
    Slammed his head REPEATADLY Into concrete for up to a minuite.
    Smothered him an was trying to murder him with bare hands.

    He couldnt go to the hospital as even a firt night intern student doctor on duty at ER.
    Would have noted noth but a couple o scrapes an minor very minor lacerations.
    No stiches required not even them pretend ones strips of gauze.
    An would also have had blood taken showing i m o alchohol temazepan cause both increase the buzz of the other.
    An whatever else could have beeen floating about fogens system cocaine?

    Who knows Im not saying about that night but even though his stats ect were normal.
    That wouldnt meean he hadnt done a couple o big lines earlier.
    As cocaine hit dimminishes very very quickly an leaves the user in a foul mood desprate for another high.

    I mean he wasnt paying his debts had scord thousands of a court case an stiffed his atttorney.
    What he have 16 grand.
    He wasnt paying his land lord rent makeing him an illegal tennant/squatter.

    An yet his mom an dad claimed they were writting fogen checks for the rent.
    He cashed them but we know the landlord never received them.What was he spending all his dosh on he shouldnt have been in debt?

    So now we have this sqaterr illegal tennent whom has also no right to have a valid ccp an in fact its said his permit wasnt valid.
    Stalks an Murders a child whom is a legal geust off B Green a Home Owner at R T L.

    An he is is nothing but a theif vagabond murderer.
    Whom do what all of his type do when outed.
    He flees in the night counsisnes of guilt.

    Being fetered an treated with kid gloves right from the get go.
    He is given a free stay out of jail card/
    Do pass go an gtf but it was a good kill because he told them so.
    Also told them he had no priors arrests ect.
    Aso told them he was like Ghandi to Black Childern an a freakin genious to boot.

    Nah dont wanna be L E im going for a judgeship.
    Kids I mentor dont trust the po po .
    But they just love freakin judges that sent there Pops away for ten years.

    Shrug no dissrespectin you boys an gals in blue but Im needed on the bench.

    Well he got that right the accused bench.
    Now this no mark never has been never will be thinks he can demand to know all this info because he shot an murdered a child

    Just like he used to demand info from stangers a R T L as he strtted around with his pen an clip board.
    I expect deneid x three an m o m already knows that.
    Just an excuse to go a whine fest via peirs moran an his other pals

    • blushedbrown says:

      @Colin

      Excellent post!

    • @Colin Black:

      Preach my brotther preach! Yes, medical records are confidential between the pt. and the pts. Physician and I know that only to well. Mark O’Money is not going to have an easy time obtaining them and he shouldn’t. What should be discussed are the medical records of that nutcase Fogen. What meds he is on, and for long he has taken them and what is his mental diagnoses? There are some cognitive deficits at play here as well.

      Fogen and his lazy non working a$$ wife, sitting in judgement of people. Neighborhood Watch indeed! He menaced one of his neighbors and ended up shooting the neighbor! They were not even paying their own rent! His truck was about to be re-possessed? Where was the money going? Was Fogen involved in some illegal activity? Why the he&& are you married if you cannot take care of your family? I remember when I used to work two jobs to take care of my family! These people are trailer partk trash! What is wrong with his wife? Did Fogen abuse her, intimidate her and threaten her too?

    • Xena says:

      @Colin (((((APPLAUSE)))))

    • looolooo says:

      Colin………damn you’re good!

    • fauxmccoy says:

      again, i bow to you power with words my friend!

  38. lurker says:

    Wow, FDLE stops just short of calling the defense team a gang of amateurs, don’t they? After tossing around how the request was mishandled, they move on to describe the specific risk to witnesses by pointing out the size of the defense team and the likelihood of them allowing the bios to end up on the internet–even if only by mistake.

    • KittySP says:

      @lurker. Agreed. FDLE response, IMO, sums it all up…and Judge Nelson should rule accordingly. Especially like the part how the defendant can use the SS# for nefarious reasons! I have to believe that this was GZ idea to file this ridiculous motion…surely MOM and West have to know this would be shot down. Instead of appeasing GZ with these silly antics, they need to convince him that time is running out and get about the business at hand. It’s time to put up or shut up!

  39. Lonnie Starr says:

    It doesn’t seem like MOM’s going to get very far with DD’s medical records, after all, is he trying to claim she might be suffering some kind of mental impairment that might make her delusional??? That’s about all I can see, but if so, so what? Her testimony is spot on, so whatever problem he might be imagining it certainly doesn’t appear to have any bearing here. Oh well, this won’t be the first useless fishing expedition MOM has mounted. Most likely he expects to fail, but is just filling time until trial.

    • Jun says:

      I actually think Omara may be trying to dupe Nelson into saying something by filing a pointless and deniable motion to try and switch judges again LOL

      Just guessing though

    • @Lonnie:
      I mentioned that in my post above. They might be trying to find out if DD has some sort of mental impairment. We already know Fogen does, and that is why he went beserk and shot Tray. Mark O’Money will fail again! The HIPAA laws may come into effect here. I cannot even get another Doctor to just send the medical records of a pt. without their consent which they have to sign. I hope DD has an attorney. This is outrageous, repehensible and despicable IMO.

      • Malisha says:

        Even if DeeDee had a diagnosed, recognized mental impairment, that would have NOTHING to do with what she actually ear-witnessed on 2/26/2012. She KNEW whom she was speaking with and the phone records confirmed it. SHe KNEW what she heard and she had no incentive to report it inaccurately. If she was delusional, there is no indication that anything she heard was a delusion rather than a valid memory of a real event because the real events that gave rise to the forensic evidence confirm, rather than invalidate, her statements about what took place that evening.

        They’re not gonna make any progress with this idiotic attempt to un-do a witness.

        • I predict DD will be one of the last witnesses called by the State after all of the evidence about the shooting and the events that led up to it have been admitted into evidence.

          She will simply be confirming what the evidence has already proven. BDLR will ask her about the false statement and she will probably break down and cry as she admits that she lied about that because she was too embarrassed to admit that she was too upset to attend the funeral.

          I think the jury and everyone in the courtroom, except the defendant, will understand that and forgive her for lying.

          I believe Sybrina will be the last witness because she is Trayvon’s mom and the emotional impact of her testimony will be extremely powerful.

          After all is said and done, I do not think anyone will remember, much less care, that DD lied. It’s just not very important.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            I’m with you on that Professor:

            I sincerely doubt the lie DD told, will be sufficient cause for the jury to disbelieve her. It’s as if, after a witness gave damning testimony against the defense, the defense then seeks to discredit the witness, by proving that he told his fat wife, yesterday morning, that she was slim. Have they proved he lied? Sure, but does it seem to matter much? NOPE! We all go through life lying all the time, being civil and/or social requires it.

            Did she, obviously, feel so distressed about not having attended Trayvon’s service, that she sought to embellish the cause? Perhaps.

            But, believe me, that’s nothing like lying to conceal the fact that one has been an active aggressor in the moments before they shot an unarmed kid to death.

          • cielo62 says:

            But what makes my blood BOIL is the way websites like CNN have headlines that scream “Key Witness LIED”! SHE is not on trial, and yet they make it sound like SHE lied under oath in court! I was so LIVID that I went on a comment-laden tirade for a few hours! That isn’t just “mis-information”; THAT is YELLOW JOURNALISM!

  40. Jun says:

    I think Omara is reaching but we will see what Nelson says

    If anything the lawyer’s for the witnesses will object to a homicide defendant having their personal information

    The guy just offed a kid for walking home with candy, so, I am sure he will go a step further to make his murder 2 trial better

    Even when cops question people, people have a right to remain silent, and warrants and other court orders are needed to get some personal information, and to get those warrants, a good reason is needed, and Omara has not shown any reasonable suspicion to delve into the private records of witnesses IMO

    IMO, the witnesses should lawyer up, or have the state provide them lawyers and object and they have a good argument against Omara

    • Xena says:

      Reminded of something GZ said to Sean when asked for his address: “I don’t want to give it all out. I don’t know where this kid is.”

      Apparently, O’Mara has another standard for witnesses.

      • Jun says:

        He actually angrily yelled it out in court last time that he is more privileged than everyone else in this case

        So I find your conclusion supported by Omara’s own statements

        Good thing is anything he angrily and forcefully gets gets struck out as inadmissible in court anyways LOL

        • Xena says:

          @Jun

          Good thing is anything he angrily and forcefully gets gets struck out as inadmissible in court anyways LOL

          Ooooh yes, which is one reason you seldom see me really active in comments pertaining to discovery matters. Just because a litigant gets info, doesn’t mean the court is going to find it admissible.

      • groans says:

        Worse: Apparently, O’Mara has another standard for TRAYVON’S family and friends.

        Remember that the killer was merely a “witness” to unsubstantiated “suspicious activity” at the time that HE said, “I don’t want to give [my address] out. I don’t know where this kid is.”

        • Xena says:

          @groans

          Remember that the killer was merely a “witness” to unsubstantiated “suspicious activity” at the time that HE said, “I don’t want to give [my address] out. I don’t know where this kid is.”

          Oh yes. GZ also had said “He ran.” GZ gave statements that he thought the kid was long gone —- but he still felt that the kid was close enough to hear him. Yeah. Sure. Because GZ was still looking for the kid.

  41. xy11xy says:

    Re Judge Nelson’s order denying depo of Crump.

    The prosecution and the Judge better gird their loins for battle. Yes, even Judge Nelson…. It is as if George is at war with her too.

    How did George manage to throw the dice and get a female Judge with a Psychology degree? Judge Nelson is the archetypal mother figure.

    This is no ordinary case and no ordinary defendant. She better prepare for battle!

    • Cercando Luce says:

      He didn’t throw the dice; he actually found prior judges to be not to his liking, without considering who else would be available to serve. (1st judge=godfather relationship to O’Mara, 2nd judge Recksiedler=recused self for degree of separation from NeJame/O’Mara, 3rd judge=Lester, which brings us to Judge Nelson)

  42. groans says:

    FYI: Order Denying Defendant’s Motion Regarding Deposition of Benjamin Crump, Esq., dated 3/4/2013

    http://www.flcourts18.org/PDF/Press_Releases/Order%20Denying%20Motion%20Regarding%20Depo%20of%20Benjamin%20Crump.pdf

    • groans says:

      Oops…. Should have finished reading the Professor’s article, first! Then I would have known that he already provided this link!

  43. kllypyn says:

    None of that stuff is relevant. why would they7 even need medical reports or addresses?

  44. IMO, they want to know if DeeDee was pregnant.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Is pregnancy against the law … or sumpem?

      • Nooooo, but they want to further tarnish Trayvon and DeeDee. Some of the nutters are claiming she was pregnant. And whatever the nutters can think of, of course, Mark and Don just HAVE to go run, run, run and find out.

      • They have no laid the foundation for proving that is discoverable…they have no statement saying she had follow-up treatment, all they have is her statement about the wake. That is all that should be discoverable if anything. I’m sure there are other ways…like ASKING her for records first.

      • ladystclaire says:

        If this judge finally impose a gag order on the defense in this case, is would that prevent him from talking to those at the conservative doghouse? the court IMO needs to know exactly where they are getting the gumption to file these stupid motions of theirs?

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          MOM has his high profile case, with the cameras on for the first time in his life he’s got people watching, he simply cannot go silent, just because he has nothing useful to say. He has to put on a performance.

      • Rachael says:

        Okay so if she is/was pregnant, that is a reason to shoot Trayvon?

    • SpecialladyT says:

      WHAT?! LOL.. They will never use that even if it is true.

      • In the media they will, to raise money…to give their supporters red meat.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Those supporter need to take a careful look at the “red meat” MOM is throwing at them, it could have mad cow with it. 😆

          • Right!!! That’s hilarious but oh so true….now Mark is saying Immunity hearing MAYBE during OR AFTER trial…hahaha…oh yeah…but the evidence supports gz, right! funny!

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Well, let’s see… After the trial he either won’t need it, or it will no longer be available. Before the trial, according to the law and the Judge’s ruling, has to be 45 days before trial. The law and the judges ruling, rules out “rolling it into the trial”. Of course, MOM isn’t under oath at the press conferences, so he can feed the reporters whatever he feels he can get away with.

            Obviously, the more foolish and ignorant the reporters, the more wild and baseless fare they can be fed. Newspapers that use substandard reporters, are widely noted for their utility in wrapping fish. 😀

      • Rachael says:

        I don’t think that information can “legally” get to the media. It is protected information under HIPAA. Even if they obtain the information by subpoena, it is still protected and they can’t “legally” give it to the media and so what if she was, how does that have ANY bearing on the fact that GZ shot Trayvon?

    • justchill says:

      please pardon my french. but wtf does a pregnancy have to do with the events that occurred on the evening of 2/26/12? i hope the judge filets the defense for this request.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        No no no… She can’t fillet the defense, remember that could get her recused. She needs to stay steady in the boat, until the ship reaches shore. There will be plenty of time to “lower the boom” then. 😆

    • Dave says:

      Pregnancy, abortion, on birth control, drug use, mental health issues…anything that anybody might hold against her.

  45. colin black says:

    Went into mod because an i added infront of colin in email similar to what happened last time.
    word press doesnt understand the email so bounces it.
    If you cant retreive it no worries my fault as per.

  46. SpecialladyT says:

    follow..

  47. SpecialladyT says:

    Does anyone know if DD has an attorney? If not, she needs to lawyer-up! This defense has crossed the line!

    How and why would a judge allow the INVASION to DD’s privacy?! I am completely sickened by this defense, their actions, unprofessional behavior and their incompetence.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Crump represents Trayvon’s parents, yet I can’t believe either he or the State or anyone with a stake in Justice for Trayvon and those who come forward on his behalf would allow DD to hang in the wind without separate legal counsel of her own. Don’t know, just sayin’ …

      • SpecialladyT says:

        I know who Crump represents, I am concerned with DD. This is with hopes that someone comes to DD’s aid. This crap O’Mara is pulling is nuts!

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Well, Judge Nelson is any witnesses first line of defense. She has a duty to see to it that witness are appropriate, are not inappropriately investigated, harassed or otherwise subjected to unnecessary intrusion or annoyance. MOM’s penchant for being utterly unable to provide justification or other explanation why he should be granted his request, practically guarantee’s he won’t be surmounting these hurdles anytime soon. I’m pretty sure that the civil rights leaders who are watching this case, will ensure that DD get’s any needed legal support. Atty Crump would, if he could, but he can’t because it would be a conflict of interest. Only reason no one has stepped forward is, MOM is so unlikely to get his request, because there is no real relevancy, nor can he show there would be any probative value in it, as far as the charges the defendant faces.

          In short, GZ’s self defense claims will not hang on DD’s credibility, but his credibility will hang on how GZ’s stated narrative is confirmed or refuted by the testimony DD has given. It’s a one way street, because she wasn’t there and could not have contrived her testimony.

          Essentially MOM might as well be asking for the credentials of the Statue of Liberty, for all DD’s credibility has to do with this case.

      • lurker says:

        Seems O’Mara made a remark a while back that he was having trouble scheduling depositions because all of the witnesses had attorneys. I was thinking at the time more in terms of the eye witnesses, but I suspect, given the parental reluctance to have DD come forward that they have obtained counsel. I hope so, anyway.

      • SpecialladyT says:

        @lurker, Judge Nelson has instructed the defense to depose DD several times in past hearings and O’Mara has yet to request a depo from the State.

        As far as other witness depositions, O’Mara has cancelled depo’s last minute.

        All this information has been discussed in previous hearings.

    • Jun says:

      IMO the state already likely advised her to lawyer up or provide a lawyer for her

      Corey seems to dot all her i’s and cross all her t’s so I am guessing she is going to make sure there is no tomfoolery from Omara

    • fauxmccoy says:

      tomorrow’s hearing just may reveal all in this regard. just as crump sent his attorney to protect his interests from unnecessary invasion, i think it is possible that DD and/or her folks may do the same tomorrow. i hope so.

  48. colin black says:

    no I cant is disapeared if you can pls try an find it took me ages.
    Cat was head butting stommpin on me pc
    I suspect he sabotaged the email add

  49. type1juve says:

    This is an attempt at witness intimidation plain and simple. I find it bizarre that the defense thinks they have a right to this child’s medical records. Do they really think that all of this posturing is going to change the fact that fogen murdered Trayvon in cold blood? It doesn’t matter what they get, the evidence remains the same.

  50. colin black says:

    Its mod again but my fault typed an i into my email by mistake I can copy an paste with righ email

  51. colin black says:

    I want to see fogens medical records.
    Since he is the one on trial the suspect/defendant.

    What pills lotions an potions he was imbibeing both before he murdered Trayvon.
    An since is relevent to this case his state of mind an what was flowing through his system.

    The night he pulled the trigger all that is relevant an he avoided a trip to hospital.
    One because he new a blood test would be taken an also a proper M E .
    Would examine his wounds ect as nothing more than superficial scrapes.
    An there was no broken nose

    Wittness 8 medical records are irellevant.
    What right does anyone have to know if she takes contraseptives pills forinstance.
    A lot of teenage girls do simply to regulate the menstual cycles.
    An not because there engageing in sex.
    An its no ones dammed buisness but her an her doctors.

    His medical records relevant anyone else eccept Trayvons after fogen blew a hole in his chest relevent.
    All othere irrelevent.
    J Nelson will give them a big phat hell to the NO
    Deneid x3

    And while we are at it as its been stated his ccp was not even legal.
    His alleged self proclaimed captain of N W at the retreat was also illegall.
    He wasnt a home owner.
    He wasnt even a legal tennant as he had stopped paying rent.
    Forceing his landlord to foreclose as he couldnt pay the morgatge with a sqatter sitting in his home an refuseing to part with a dime.
    Have to pay legal fees to get a court order to evict foggen.
    So he an wifey stayed there rent free there justification being they didnt have to pay rent as the property was in forclosure an the bank was owed the money,
    Of course foggen wasnt paying the bank.
    I susspect he was takeing money from his parents for rent.
    Stiffing the landlord an pocketing it.
    Either way you slice it he was a non legal resident of the retreat the night he murdered Trayvon whom ironicly was a legal resident as a geust of home owner B Green.

    So can we see all those records please.
    Oh I forgot all this is common knowlage.
    An this derilect is special for why?

    • fauxmccoy says:

      i am convinced that their communal 7+ years attaining what is normally a 2 year degree was also scamming the student loan system. sadly, i know welfare recipients who do this to supplement their cash aid and they do not report the student loan income – which is sizable. i’ve seen it done and would not put it past zim or wife because those loans do not become due until schooling is completed and can be deferred for many reasons such as medical conditions or being unemployed. ring any bells?

      ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee, gz.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        You don’t have to report student loans and Pell grants as income. Well, you report these, but they don’t count as taxable income.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          agreed, not to the IRS — but unless i am horribly mistaken, county welfare has a vested interest in this information.

          the zimmerman’s clearly have student loans by their own admission. neither are working now nor in the foreseeable future. these are debts that will go unpaid and that were used for their living expenses, just as their legal defense was — i.e. unwisely.

          i am in no way accusing them of welfare fraud, since we do not know if they received any assistance. i do think they prolonged their ‘educational experience’ and enjoyed income via student loans in doing so.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        I still agree with Xena, that there are/were drug addictions at work with this couple as reflected by their financial fecklessness and obvious spending issues.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          their financial affairs appear hinky to me alright. i happen to think that many years of student loans (and we know he’s been taken to court for failure to pay more than once) adds to the intrigue.

        • Xena says:

          @Cercando Luce

          I still agree with Xena, that there are/were drug addictions at work with this couple as reflected by their financial fecklessness and obvious spending issues.

          Yes. When looking at the total picture, it becomes very suspect if not obvious. ShelLIE wasn’t working neither looking for work. They had no children, sick relatives, etc. to take care of requiring that she not work. She was licensed as a cosmetologist. Was she not able to pass a drug test to get a job so just didn’t bother looking for one?

          • fauxmccoy says:

            xena – i checked her cosmetology license with the state about as soon as i became aware of ms. zimmerman, even went so far as to find her maiden name and check that. she did not have a valid current license a year ago and i have no clue as to when she let it expire as that info is not available.

    • SRA says:

      He wasnt a home owner.
      He wasnt even a legal tennant as he had stopped paying rent.
      Forceing his landlord to foreclose as he couldnt pay the morgatge with a sqatter sitting in his home an refuseing to part with a dime.
      Have to pay legal fees to get a court order to evict foggen.
      So he an wifey stayed there rent free there justification being they didnt have to pay rent as the property was in forclosure an the bank was owed the money,
      Of course foggen wasnt paying the bank.
      I susspect he was takeing money from his parents for rent.
      Stiffing the landlord an pocketing it.
      Either way you slice it he was a non legal resident of the retreat the night he murdered Trayvon whom ironicly was a legal resident as a geust of home owner B Green.

      (Is all that true? Wow.)

  52. FactsFirst says:

    I’m starting to believe the judicial system was designed to protect criminals… This don’t make no damn sense… SMH…

    • ladystclaire says:

      That’s exactly what it is beginning to look like to me as well. this is so unfair to this victim and his family. as well as those witnesses who are honest and told the truth about the events of that night. hopefully he will receive another denial in a string of many that he has already received.

      • lurker says:

        Well, as they say, askin’ ain’t gettin’.

        FDLE seems pretty clear that they aren’t giving up anything more without every i dotted and t crossed.

        And I cannot imagine the judge just signing off carte blanche on a witness’s medical records either.

    • Rachael says:

      I’ve always kind of felt that way, but dang, do they have to go out of their way to prove it?

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        It seems that way because it is actually “going in the same direction” but in this case there is a difference; the system is designed to protect the accused. It’s a more evolved system from what we’ve historically had, which was that the accused was always guilty, unless and until proven innocent, in time to prevent the art of extracting the needed confession, from turning the accused into a vegetable or worse.

        Just thank your lucky stars that there is no recorded incident of the “Pear of Anguish” ever having been used on a living person. But between the Holy Roman church, the Star Chamber of Spain, Visigoths, etc., on an on, there’s quite a history of those accused failing to put on an effective defense, simply because the flames of the pyres got in the way. In fact, that’s probably where lawyers got the term “brief” from, if you get my drift.

    • Bill Taylor says:

      the system was designed to protect innocent citizens from government abuse…..i agree with our system the government must prove its cases beyond a reasonable doubt before we punish anyone……and i prefer 1000 criminal go free as opposed to ONE innocent being locked up, because in this nation as it was designed, the ARMED citizenry will take care of those 1000 walking around.

      • cielo62 says:

        Bill- well, ONE armed thug has already murdered someone. I don’t support the arming if more morons going around handing out “justice”. GZ will just have to be found guilty by a court of law and sentenced that way. Now PRISON justice is much harder to control. That is where GZ is going to pay.

  53. Rachael says:

    Why the hell do they need credit records, SS#s, noncriminal records, etc.? That is insane and tjere os no reason for DeeDre’s medical records. Dang. They are being awfully invasive just because they can’t find anything . Seems more like retaliation. Like their guy might go to prispn but not before damaging everyone else as much as they can.

    • Malisha says:

      I suspect they want to steal the identities of all the prosecution witnesses, and then go charge lots of booze, prostitute fees, and other questionable charges to their credit cards, and then try to discredit them on the stand based on these bogus charges. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

    • elcymoo says:

      If they’re hoping to find something in the witnesses’ credit reports that will impeach their credibility, aren’t they opening a door for the prosecution to introduce GZ’s own lousy credit record? Ditto for the ‘social media’ information.

    • PYorck says:

      I am still convinced that they do not really care all that much about some of the evidence that they have been asking for recently. It is all about creating a conspiracy. They are telling everyone who wants to hear it about all those “open questions”, “mystery” and all the things that they were not allowed to know because someone, somewhere has something to hide.

      The defense hardly mentions the events of that night anymore. I think that is because they know that they will end up in a courtroom with devastating evidence and a defendant without any credibility. They need jurors who are willing to overlook that. Whether that is successful or not – a little money from useful idiots won’t hurt either.

      • xy11xy says:

        But can jurors just ignore forensic evidence?

        • PYorck says:

          I hope they won’t.

          But am I absolutely sure that they won’t find someone who believes that DeeDee would have gone away if she had been investigated properly, that the forensic evidence is not to be trusted and that GZ would never have been charged anyway if it wasn’t for that shadowy cabal putting pressure on witnesses and law enforcement?

          Unfortunately I am not.

      • Jun says:

        That is why there is stringent jury selection rules

        and the case really is not some huge conspiracy, it is just Fogenhats’ gang that buys into that, and Omara is selling to them what they need and want

        The case is pretty much a wanna be cop, who decided to act out his fantasy on an unsuspecting teenage boy who was walking home with skittles and ice tea

        The defendant targeted and started stalking victim around 7pm at night

        The victim, feeling scared of a stranger stalking him tries to run away

        The defendant gets angry that the victim tries to run away, and yells an expletive to himself and begins going after the victim on foot, as the victim is trying to get away

        The defendant admits to stalking and pursuing the victim, and the police tell him it is not necessary to pursue the victim

        The defendant disregards the request and continues his pursuit

        The defendant catches the victim and confronts, threatens, and attacks the victim, then shoots the victim

        The victim was on the phone with a friend during part of this altercation and she testifies as to what she heard

        Sounds fairly simple to me and rather difficult to make complex

        CSI effect in full effect

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          I’ll agree that there is a simple view of these events, just as you say. However, it’s just a bit unbelievable to me that, a cowardly failure, would have the guts to take a human life without a good dollop of “back office” support. He needs a group of powerful people, going in the same direction, to convince him he can get away with it, and surprise, surprise… He almost does! While the opposition was initially disorganized and weak.

          That tends to say that there is more to this than it just being a simple thing. I don’t know what his deal is, but he really did have something in his waistband, and it was his wife’s gun.

    • ladystclaire says:

      With credit reports you get addresses and, I guess that is why they threw that in there. I don’t think they have a right to the credit reports of the witnesses. MOM and his cohort ought to be ashamed of themselves. this is all an under handed effort to obtain addresses that they have no damn right to. as for the SS# they are not entitled to those either. but then again they couldn’t get the addresses through the courts so, they are going to try to get them in a sneaky under handed way. THE DAMN SLOBS!

  54. Why would O’Mara even ask for this stuff? He knows there are laws against obtaining medical records.

    The defense wouldn’t even give all of his medical records to them; but he has the nerve to ask for the victims witnesses give him their records?

  55. Siren says:

    These request are completely unreasonable. O’Mara keeps trying to get the addresses of the witness. To me it’s creepy. I do NOT think O’Mara have the addresses of these folks.

    After the trial is over these witnesses will be harassed by these so called conservative tree house people.

    • Rachael says:

      Totally unreasonable and totally invasive and way beyond the scope of what is necessary. I think O’Mara is confused here and has forgotten who is on trial.

      • Malisha says:

        He didn’t “forget” who is on trial. He wants Trayvon to be on trial because that’s his only defense. Remember, in Fogen’s written statement to the police he called Trayvon “the suspect” 18 times.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Well, that won’t work out very well, we know that Trayvon was no criminal. If he was walking in the rain that was none of GZ’s business. Nor did GZ’s dreams and delusions give him the right to follow, or present himself to Trayvon without explanation, since that would cause anyone to fear from the unwanted attention of a visibly angered stranger.

          Besides, GZ has to lose the “walking in the rain” because Trayvon was standing in the mail shed, taking shelter from the rain, until GZ gave him cause to fear for his safety. Which caused Trayvon to leave his shelter without regard to the rain.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      MOM is just struggling to find enough to do, to fill the time until trial. He’d ask for BoZo’s medical records if he didn’t think that would give away what he’s trying to do; namely fill time.

  56. ladystclaire says:

    UNBELIEVABLE! the defense wants this girls medical records which are protected by the HIPPA laws and, yet they want to keep the *MURDERER’S* medical records which are very relevant to this case. it seems that everything that refers to this person who has killed an innocent blood, should remain sealed according to his defense team. how very very sickening these defense people are.

    I agree with those who have said that, this defense team along with their lying murdering client, is turning this country’s justice system into a JOKE. what the hell else are they going to ask for? 3 more months to go and, I hope he is convicted and sentenced so this entire assault on the victim, his family, the family attorney and his friends can finally get on with their lives as best they can. life as they knew it before Fogen, will never be the same because, they will always feel the emptiness of him being gone from them forever.

    At least the family of the MOST DISGUSTING one can visit him in his new home. but, Trayvon’s family can only visit his grave site. and to think there are actually ignorant people in this country who thinks he should get away with murder. it’s to damn bad, he didn’t murder one of their kids.

    • I could be wrong, but I am not so sure that HIPPA-protected medical records for a juvenile will just be mailed out to a non-doctor attorney someplace so he can run buck wild with the stuff.

      That request is pretty obnoxious. I mean, anything could happen, I suppose, but records like that- don’t they have to come under seal with a living medical professional stapled to them, as well as a darn good explanation?

      • Rachael says:

        It’s HIPAA (Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act) not HIPPA.

        And even if the person is not a juvenile, medical records would not be just mailed out because they are protected information anyway. They can be subpoenaed, but as far as I know, that information is still protected. They might be able to say DeeDee was in the hospital from such and such a day, but they can’t say why. But I guess if there are no medical records for the date they are looking for when she said she was in the hospital, it is not a violation of HIPAA if there is no record so they can say she was not there if there are no records. I think that is the ” reasonably calculated to lead to relevant admissible evidence” he is looking for, because there is no other reason to ask for her medical records. There is nothing in her medical records that made GZ shoot TM.

        And why he needs social security numbers, Experian credit reports, driving record, non-conviction arrest information on everyone is just crazy. Was Trayvon shot because he had bad credit or his brother had something on his driving record or what?

        I’m assuming the 3 videos are the BS videos where outhousers say he is MMA-ing.

        Anyway, he seems a bit out of line to me. Waaayyyy to invasive. None of that information has anything to do with why GZ shot and killed Trayvon.

        • Thank you for the correct (my bad, given a nursing background, lol!)

          This stuff seems like over-reaching witness intimidation. These other people are not on trial.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          CLAM DOWN EVERYONE… MOM is free to ask for the Presidents dental history if he wants, like his request to depose Attorney Crump, it will all wind up “on the cutting room floor” along with his 15 minutes of fame! 😀

      • Tzar says:

        How do we know Deedee said she was in the hospital? Could it be the fake Deedee that they think was in the hospital?

      • ay2z says:

        Crane, (snark alert) I think that’s a bit of a wild reach there, everyone with the name starting with D in the whole USA, really!! They only have 100 days and counting down now. Due to time restraints, everyone with first name starting with D between the ages of 14 and 27 and delared non-Irish, non-Peruvian, in the USA should really be sufficient.

  57. xy11xy says:

    Yes!

    Re Biographies:

    I was hopping and skipping about those biographies! It seems like intimidation to me for a “homicide suspect” to request that kind of information about witnesses and their associates.

    Re DeeDee’s medical records:
    Agreed; it is mean-spirited. It is also a request from a boy, turned man, who likes to force his fingers into the vagina’s of little girls.

    Nelson should not even review the records in camera. If she allows access to witness medical records, then she should allow access to witness biographies….and she cannot allow access to witness biographies.

    As far as I know, DeeDee hasn’t even been deposed yet. What potential evidence could O’Mara be referring to? And, wouldn’t Judge Nelson have to decide whether that particular matter is even an issue before anticipating discovering medical records?

    ..Or something like that.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      One could hope there’s some sort of penalty or legal sanction for even trying this stunt, but I don’t suppose there is.

    • Mike says:

      @xy11xy I love your YouTube videos

    • msraingirl2 says:

      MoM should be disbarred but I thing the state of Fl is to racist and bigoted for that to happen it is clear that every one who MOM wants to scrutinize are black ppl Crump DEE DEE Trayvon and other but not the highly dysfunctional GZ who was loaded with uppers and downers on the night of the murder he is the one who should have had a toxicology done on him but the racist cops agreed with him because he is not black if he had been black they would have skinned him alive, there would be no trial I wonder what the hell they will do now that the new police chief is a real black man!! LOL

  58. Cercando Luce says:

    2/26/12 to 4/30/12? That’s twice as long as O’Mara deemed relevant for his ADD-medicated client, but nothing in the girl’s records, at any time, has anything to do with defendant’s actions on 2/26/12.

  59. Malisha says:

    The defense has nothing; they have NO * THING as in NOTHING.

    Since they have nothing, they are doing what Fogen did: Insisting that there is something suspicious. REAL suspicious. Everyone is doing wrong; everyone is “up to no good.” Everyone is to be grilled and interrogated about what they have been doing wrong. They are all presumed to be doing wrong because someone once did something that clearly gave Fogen bad feelings.

    Remember his reasoning to Serino about why he found Trayvon “suspicious”? Because Emmanuel Burgess (never proven that this even happened) had been leaning on Taaffe’s house once, giving Fogen the idea that he was “pretending he lived there.” Then said Emmanuel Burgess left without satisfying Fogen about what he was doing there or what his ill intentions might have been.

    In other words, people doing “wrong” give Fogen the idea that people do wrong and that makes Fogen very suspicious and that causes him to need to find out everything about people so he can clear them as possibly NOT being wrong-doers although probably they are. See?

    So they need all available information on all possible witnesses because they’re all “up to no good.”

    • Trained Observer says:

      Malisha — Could they — Crump, the State, eye and ear Witnesses — all be, as Fogen likes to say, “on drugs or sumpem”?

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I don’t know what their deal is . . .

        Yes, I do, really – they’re playing to the Conservative Treestump, where many paying Fogen supporters believe Witness 8 either doesn’t exist or can be proven to be a liar because there’s some confusion whether she missed the wake or viewing or funeral, take your pick, because of stress / medical problems. Like anything there will allow Fogen to walk. (heheheheh).

        Rots o’ ruck. I’m not much of a namecaller and don’t like it much when others do it, but I’m about ready to call the defense a bucket of —-. Fill in the blanks as you please.

        I’m totally disgusted and hope Judge Nelson is too.

      • looolooo says:

        😀

      • racerrodig says:

        I hope none of them puts their hand in their waistband…the shit will really hit the fan then…and God forbid if any of them run.

    • ‘These people. They’re out looking real suspicious after I shot that guy. And since they look real suspicious, way more suspicious than I do, I think I was justified in killing that guy.’

      Maybe he can subpoena all the witnesses’ medical, school AND work records after the shooting, because surely, surely, those records will be the best defense to the shooting, ever.

      • racerrodig says:

        Actually, I think he’ll have a Motion to see the medical records of every member of Team Trayvon. Obviously, there “..must be sumptin wrong…” with all of us, ya know, not buying his story and all. God forbid we don’t believe RZ Jr….

        • Yes. I think that is even a better idea.

          All a y’alls medical records! LOL, ha haaa! Goodness. All I really see these days is a shrink, surely that’s enough to justify a Florida shooting!

      • Next they’ll be asking for all of BDLR’s and Judge Nelson’s records/information to determine if they could be considered “suspicious” too.

        • Yeah.

          ‘This fourth judge. She looks real suspicious. She’s just, like making rulings and stuff, ‘

          ‘What does the judge look like?’

          ‘She looks blond. Shit, she just made another ruling.’

          ‘Are you asking her to recuse herself?’

          ‘Yeah.’

          ‘Okay, we don’t need you to do that.’

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Yeah… and don’t forget the guy who designed the courthouse! We need his medical and school records going back to kindergarten, and he needs to be deposed as well!

      • Cercando Luce says:

        LOL grey winter sky– here’s a try:

        Motion to Discover Medical and Dental Records of Bernardo de la Rionda, Esq. (the “Prosecutor”), and the Honorable Judith Nelson (the “Judge”).
        Now comes before the Court defendant GEORGE ZIMMERMAN, known to this court and to this court known as such, to wit:
        WHEREAS defendant is currently without any information provided as to the health and well-being, both medical and dental, of both Prosecutor and Judge, and in light of the same does indeed find himself and does hereby demand as relevant and necessary to his thorough, complete and honest defense all aforementioned medical and dental records of the Prosecutor and the Judge, it is HEREBY DEMANDED FOR DISCOVERY, all records pertaining to and relating to:
        obturations
        orthodonture
        overbite (or underbite as the case may be)
        digestion
        earache
        aphtous botherations…[for another 112 pages]…

        WHEREFORE we pray the indulgence, fully, completely, and at all times of this MOST HONORABLE COURT.

      • lady2soothe says:

        I’m part of Team Trayvon but a friend of a friend is pretty clueless about most of the evidence however I’m sure she’ll be happy to supply her colonoscopy records being she’s a sideline supporter.

        • Cool, and I have a friend in Ohio who recently went through a bout of gastroeneritis; I am certain those medical records would be helpful. Also, one time I had to stay in from recess and apologize to the class for telling students that the teacher would pay them a quarter if they got a “very good” mark on their classwork. I’m sure that is in the school records. Would that be helpful to the defense?

      • fauxmccoy says:

        oh, they’ll have more fun with my medical records than anyone’s entitled to – two bouts with cancer, graves disease, fibromyalgia, PTSD etc., etc., … in the malappropriated words of one thwarted presidential candidate, “i’ve got binders full of womens medical records”. yes, i have them all and there is a collection of 8 3″ binders – have fun guys 😀

        • Okay, great. Now I think you should get some postage and start mailing those binders TODAY, right to the defense.

          I’ll have to negotiate with FedEx to bulk-ground ship my medical records, as well as the records of my family, friends and anyone I have ever met, but we’ll get this done!

          • fauxmccoy says:

            ok, am off to the copy store to copy and collate … this could take a while and get pricey, sure hope o’mara appreciates the effort – i figured as a Double D female, it’s the least i could do … that makes me a DD, right? i suspect there’s a lot of us, we should inundate their office with useless crap. 🙂

          • DD, oh my gosh, you are KEY!

            Update: Judge Nelson dismissed the medical records motion as “moot without prejudice.”

            BOOM.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            KA-BOOM!

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            |||=> Tick Tock! <-|||

      • thejbmission says:

        “3 months before — 3 months after”
        Isn’t that what Judge Lester ruled when O’Mara requested Trayvon’s medical records?
        But of course, I didn’t think O’Mara deserved any medical records from his victim.

        Hmm.. Focusing a little too much on medical records, IMO.
        O’Mara’s showing a bit too much of his hand. Where is he going to go with medical records? Find that a couple of witnesses with bad eye sight, find a few with hearing problems, mental issues, history of drug abuse????
        I think this is a form of witness intimidation. O’Mara knows that this trial will more than likely be nationally broadcasted.
        The only thing that these witness should have to do is get on the stand and tell the truth, the whole truth, so help me God.
        I have to say, I’m very disappointed in O’Mara’s defense tactics and insinuations. I really hope Judge Nelson puts a stop to all of these shenanigans.

    • Don’t leave out the pattern – Emmanuel Burgess, Travyon, Benjamin Crump, DeeDee ALL have one thing in common…they are buhlack!

      • @Thats_so_not_racist”:
        Yep that is the bottom line! What the he** does the defense need DD’s medical records for? DD is not TRIAL! What could they be searching for? That she has a mental condition? Judge Nelson should DENY this request! This is ridiculous! They want everybody’s records but not Fogen’s.unless it can be limited to three months! A bunch of hypocrites!

        BTW Leatherman family, I attended the vigil in Union Square on the 25th. I do not work to far from that area, but I asked to leave early anyway! After 23 years, my requests are ever denied! My supervisor was very supportive. She wanted to attend, but her baby was sick and she resides in New Jersey. It was very respectful, and a lot of supporters attended.

      • gbrbsb says:

        Hi TSNR, sorry to go completely off topic but I’m desperate. I believe since around the time you and “Shannoninmiami” started to “follow” my “blog” (it’s not a real blog just a place I put things I I write or like) neither my notification icon on the menu bar nor my notifications page is showing me the replies I get from comments here. The only notifications I get now is that you and Shannon are “following” my blog which I never got before so It occurred to me it could have something to do with it. Could you un-follow and I will ask Shannon the same to see if it starts working again, otherwise I am well and truly stumped! Thanks.

        • No problem! Unfollowing now. 🙂

          • gbrbsb says:

            What a coincidence!
            Not 5 mins ago I got a reply from WordPress Support telling loads of users with similar but not the same malfunctions that the notification problem was at their end and was now fixed. Then just when I was going to check the menu bar icon lit up, et voilà your reply!

            So, yes it appears to be working again but not sure if you or WP. As Shannon hasn’t replied yet I assume it was not the following at all so if you unfollowed, thank for your help anyway and if you haven’t then do so only if you want. Thanks again

    • pat deadder says:

      OMG Malisha one would think the witneses commited a crime.They all seem to think like fogen.That every is up to no good.

  60. Tzar says:

    more wasting of the court’s time
    tic toc

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