CNN puff piece regarding letters to Zimmerman is bullshit

Friday, March 1, 2013

Vivian Kuo of CNN reports today:

“Please shoot yourself, you racist piece of sh-t,” read the body of another e-mail. “You killed an unarmed teen that you stalked.”

And several dictated the same, succinct line: “Hope you die in prison.”

These venom-drenched words are just a smattering of at least 400 e-mails and letters, all sent to George Zimmerman over the past 10 months.

Zimmerman, 29, has yet to read the vast majority of these letters; they are retained by his legal counsel in Orlando. His attorneys provided them exclusively to CNN, omitting the senders’ names to protect their identities.

The majority are either neutral or compassionate, offering moral support and financial contributions to help with Zimmerman’s mounting bills. The supportive letters often blame the media for his woes and offer encouragement for the road ahead.

This worthless piece of crap that supposedly passes for balanced journalism is just a summary of letters and emails sent to the defendant. They contain nothing new or relevant to the case. Yet they are reported as news.

In fact they serve as nothing more than an excuse for CNN to repeat the false narrative that the truth of what happened remains unknown.

At first, it seemed fairly black and white: Trayvon, an unarmed 17-year-old, was walking to the home of his father’s fiancee after a trip to the store for candy and tea when Zimmerman, the neighborhood watchman, saw him and called Sanford police’s nonemergency line.

Zimmerman described Martin as a “suspicious guy.” The dispatcher told Zimmerman not to follow the teen — whether he did is still in dispute — but the two later encountered each other. Zimmerman fired his weapon, and a bullet to Martin’s chest ended the youngster’s life.

Police would later explain that the dispatcher’s imperative was “not a lawful order that Mr. Zimmerman would be required to follow.”

It would turn out to be a more complicated incident altogether, one whose details have yet to emerge completely.

I have news for Kuo and CNN.

There is no mystery. The defendant followed, lost, hunted, located, confronted, and detained a 17-year-old Black kid armed with Skittles and tea while walking home and talking to his girlfriend on his cell phone.

Whether the dispatcher had any authority to order the defendant not to follow Trayvon is irrelevant. The defendant’s intent is relevant, however, and his conduct ignoring the dispatcher’s warning considered together with his lamentation that “these assholes, they always get away,” tells us what he intended to do and what he proceeded to do.

There is no evidence that Trayvon struck the defendant in the nose or that he slammed the defendant’s head repeatedly into a concrete sidewalk. Trayvon had no bruises to his hands or skinned knuckles and not a trace of Zimmerman’s blood or DNA on his fingernail cuttings or on the lower sleeves of the two sweatshirts he was wearing.

The defendant can be heard cursing Trayvon in the background of a 911 call as Trayvon shouts “No.” That is followed by the death shriek that ends with the gunshot, precisely.

Zimmerman’s vital signs were all normal 15 minutes after the shooting and he declined transport to a hospital. His minor injuries were mere scrapes that required no stitches or bandages and most likely were sustained from running face-first in the dark into the branches of a tree and falling down.

The defendant told Hannity that the only thing he feared was having a police officer shoot him if he saw him with his gun in his hand.

The defendant is entitled to the presumption of innocence at trial and the jury will be so instructed, but there is no mystery about the evidence and what it will prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

Articles like this one, which ignore the overwhelming evidence of guilt, presumably because there is no balanced way to report the truth, are at best misleading and at worst deceitful.

This is not journalism.

This is bullshit.

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397 Responses to CNN puff piece regarding letters to Zimmerman is bullshit

  1. Two sides to a story says:

    In a related mode – Rep Keith Ellison tells Sean Hannity what most of us wish we could – http://front.moveon.org/rep-keith-ellison-tells-sean-hannity-what-most-of-us-just-wish-we-could/

    • jm says:

      I am not political and think all the corrupt politicians who are paid big bucks got America to this economic point should be fired and/or imprisoned BUT I have often wondered how in the world Sean Hannity can sleep at night and am very happy someone pointed out his duplicity and attempts to paint an untrue picture, not just in politics but with GZ story.

  2. racerrodig says:

    My dad taught me how to slow down reality in events such as witnessing a car accident and that type of thing. I have witnessed and testified about quite a few I’ve seen. But many events that I was involved in I can’t recall every detail.

    How Fogen is calm as everyone has noticed and just casually talks about little details is a joke. After Singleton tells him she never shot anyone, he starts to make light and flirts with her, His “…my wife is a mess…” comment is a laugh.

  3. colin black says:

    xy11xy says:

    March 2, 2013 at 4:17 pm

    Very good catching that, colin!
    @
    Im pretty sure lots of people caught that faux pa by foggen re the Stern voice an authoritive thing.
    An the fact thats the subject matter he engages her with . Autharitive an Stern presance.
    B D L R wouldve pricked up his ears when he heard that.

    Not have you ever felt your life was in danger dureing an atttack by a perp.

    Because that never happened.
    Honestly think he thought he could say an do anything.

    He beleived none of this would ever see the light of Day he would never be charged .
    As he thought he had killed an stolen the only other wittness life an words.

    An then he began to hear that Sabrina an Tracy Trayvons loveing parents .
    Doubted his version of events.

    So he concocted a few more to see wich one would fix this pickle he found him self in.

    No one told him you cant fix stupid.

  4. Nefertari05 says:

    I just had a thought (I know, I know 🙂 ) But bear with me please, and forgive me if this point has been mentioned before.

    Fogen claimed he pinned Trayvon’s arm to fogen’s side, immediately prior to drawing his weapon. Fogen has also claimed that he had Trayvon in “wristlock” (requiring at least the left hand since he was busy trying to draw with the right, AND Trayvon’s gun seeking arm not being pinned), immediately prior to drawing his weapon. These two statement’s are utterly irreconcilable.

    Any thoughts?

    • Xena says:

      @Nefertari05.

      Any thoughts?

      Yes. By the prosecutor using GZ’s own words, it provides evidence that GZ was not physically pinned by Trayvon, and also that GZ had physical control of Trayvon, thereby not needing to fire his gun.

    • Nefertari05 says:

      Another point. Accoring to fogen’s all tale, if Trayvon was mounted, the righthanded Trayvon would have had to go for the gun with his left hand.He’s ridiculous.

      • Xena says:

        @Nefertari05

        Another point. Accoring to fogen’s all tale, if Trayvon was mounted, the righthanded Trayvon would have had to go for the gun with his left hand.He’s ridiculous.

        Ridiculous because he’s a compulsive liar. I don’t remember now if it’s in his re-enactment or when he took the voice stress test, but in one of those videos, GZ demonstrates that Trayvon has his left hand on his nose, and crosses over his left arm with his right arm to run down his chest to his hip for the gun.

        So, along with all the super thug physical abilities and clairvoyant gifts that GZ and Zidiots attribute to Trayvon, they also believe that Trayvon had a super long right arm.

      • Nefertari05 says:

        @Xena –

        Oh, for goodness sakes, he’s absurd! If he is not convicted, there is truly no justice!

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Exactly the part that should be subjected to the analysis of a Kinesiologist they are around on the net, just need to look for one who is blogging and ask. One of them may be interested in looking at this case. I think I’ll try to google to see if any are already involved.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        I found a database for kinesiologist THE DOK [link] The trouble is there are so many fields to this subject, it will take a bit of wiki reading to determine which fields to search for practitioners to query. A Damion Thomas is a kinesiologist, (not sure which type) who spoke at a Trayvon rally.

        It would be interesting, if we could find one who is interested in doing some analysis. Especially if we could hook them up with LLMPapa or Trent Sawyer, eh?

  5. colin black says:

    Dureing that converstion with det Singleton.
    Where upon he asks her if she has ever had to shoot anyone.?.

    No ….is her short an sweet answer.
    Most normal people would pick up the social cues.
    Her short uneleborated answer indicates its
    a subject she is uncomfortable with.

    This of course goes right over foggens head .Remember this is the guy whom an ex workmate.
    Whom was also a former L E an had shot an killed a perp in the line of duty.

    He recounted fogggen was for ever wanting him to retell the circumstanses an asking questions he considered offensive.
    But he put it down to a civilians nieveity .,

    An fogens dissapointment of not being able to share a fishing story with her.
    He admitts that her STERN demeanour would be enought to have suspects comply with her commands.

    But he was in a life an death strugggle when he shot .
    Nothing what so ever to do with suspects respecting his sterness or authourity.

    He didnt ask her if she had ever been in a situation dureing her L E career.
    Where she felt her life was at risk from a suspect attacking her.
    An if she had thought of deploying her weapon.
    Wich would have been more apt if foggens story of a pre warning sucker punch at the T had any truth to it.

    No he says in his mind the shooting was all about atttaude.
    Even F Taffe blurted out on m s m that none of this would have happened if Trayvon had answered foggen respectfully?
    An that was on a walk through of the scene with some tv company.

    PS Crane thanks for the welcome.
    But my pc done one of those systems update things.
    An a automatic shutdown right inda middle of jodiairyass on the stand getting mullered by the Prosecuter.
    An after that I seemed to. start haveing problems posting,
    Its all soted now touch

    • Tzar says:

      I have to wonder if the killer was drunk or high at the time of the shooting

      • Rachael says:

        You know, I played the phone call for a friend of mine who knew nothing about the case and that was the first thing he said was that GZ sounded loaded. And everything about him that night was just totally inappropriate – the normal vital signs, the discussion Colin mentioned. Of course, he is totally inappropriate at other time too – trying to call the DA, going on Hannity, and especially saying he had no regrets. He is just socially inappropriate. Something’s wrong with him. I don’t know what his deal is.

      • Rachael says:

        Oh, and not to mention his “sophisticated” code for talking on the jail phone. LMAO!!!!

      • Puck says:

        I can tell you from experience that temazepam causes disinhibition and a certain euphoria, kills anxiety, and can make you feel somewhat drunk if you don’t go to bed and let the hypnotic effect work.

      • Nefertari05 says:

        I’ve always thought so. It would account for the slurring of his words, the (alleged)gaps in his memory and the act that the first part of his narrative is,virtually identical to what he told police on his Feb. 2nd call, as illustrated by LMPapa in his “need a new script”video.

    • xy11xy says:

      Very good catching that, colin!

  6. ay2z says:

    Schmooze gear yes, but the schmooze is a technique in his kitbag of manipulative techniques, ‘what’ he says in the video is still telling.

    Including his phrase ‘Have you ever had to shoot ss-anybody?” [he started to say somebody]

    He doesn’t ask ‘have you ever shot anybody?’ He insertes ‘the idea ‘HAD’ to, you know, just like he himself ‘HAD’ to.

    Schmooze yes, especially the point of asking her directly if she knew the email he sent to Lee (about her) got into her file.

  7. dianetrotter says:

    I cannot believe it! I am watching Law & Order. A witness said something unexpected. The defense called for a recess. While two defense attorneys discussed the problem, one said, “Let’s put Leatherman on this thing.”

  8. Romaine says:

    lol correct spelling makes a diff

  9. Romaine says:

    >Thus is the quotation< hmmm didn't work

  10. Romaine says:

    >this is the quotation<every man deserves justice

  11. Nefertari05 says:

    I thought this article by Yale Sociology professor – Elijah Anderson was interesting. Many fogenites make a big deal out of “if he was planning on killing Trayvon,why didn’t he just shoot him at the beginning. Why would he call the police ahead of time?” and o course the whole “he mentored black kids, had black friends, advocated for Ware” (no I don’t believe them, but that’s beside the point for my purposes).

    Many of us have explained the “detaining”, “wannabe hero”, the whole black kid/hoodie/profiling – and I never understood why they didn’t get it. I really didn’t. Of course, it’s easy to know(though impossible to accept) some things that you’ve grown up with in your culture. Things are just are what they are.

    Anyway, this is the closest I’ve ever seen anyone come close to explaining the relatively subtle difference between hatred of a race, and subconscious 21st century prejudice/bigotry that is manifested in the predisposition to judge someone black according to a stereotype until they prove you wrong, instead of giving them the benefit until they prove your inherent prejudices right.

    In other words, ignoring the truism that just because *some* black males may commit a crime, it does NOT automatically follow that *every* black male you see is a criminal, bent on a criminal act. Something fogen didn’t even consider due to his inherent prejudice (imo). And that’s tragic, because it cost a young, promising, innocent, unarmed teen minding his own business, his very life; and devastated his loved ones forever.

    This took me all the way back to my very favorite undergrad social psych class, Psychology of Prejudice. Since it’s the weekend and no new motions have been filed and there’s no new hearing until Tues – I thought I’d share. If you haven’t already read it, it’s worth the read from a historical perspective, if not the social psych perspective. Hope you enjoy!

    “Emmett and Trayvon: How Racial Prejudice Has Changed in the Last 60 Years ”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/elijah-anderson/emmett-and-trayvon-how-racial-prejudice_b_2773439.html

    • Jun says:

      Well, he did shoot the kid, didn’t he?

      Since he is staging a self defense claim, it would come to reason that perhaps shooting him would be more difficult to stage a self defense claim

      • Nefertari05 says:

        I certainly agree Jun. However, the article is not concerned with the shooting (the end). The author is more delving into an intriguing look into why Trayvon was targeted to begin with (21st century prejudices, biases, and bigotry).

    • Rachael says:

      That was really interesting. My son is biracial and I saw a lot of that directed at him, not one of “those” kind. He grew up with a white mom in a predominately white neighborhood and went to a prissy rich white private school where everyone told him he didn’t act black. When we moved and he went to middle school, and he had an early puberty, shaving at 10, voice changed at 11, when he was 13 he did not look like a teen, but he acted like one. That on top of bein “black” scared me all the time. I lived in fear of a George Zimmerman because though very short 5’2″ (I’m only 4’9″) iI was always terrified for him when he went out. The police would stop him sometimes just for walking down the street. The manager of our apartment got after him real bad one summer because a group of kids, including my son, would “hang out” and he was the only blackone and looked more like he was over 20 because he had a beard and dreads so she started screaming at him one day about getting a job. I went to talk to her and explained he was only 14 (he also had a broken hand that summer so was casted with pins) but if she had a job for him, hed be happy to do it. She was shocked because she thought he was like 20 and hanging out with younger kids and being a bad influence when the fact was, he was actually the youngest. They were just kids standing outside talking and listening to music on summer nights. Yes, i’d had “that talk” with him many times and always lived in fear of a George Zimmerma, especially once my son became a teen. He may not have “acted black” enough when he was a kid but once he was a teen, he acted like a teen and if you are black and act like a teen, you are not safe, and if you are black, act like a teen but look like you are much older, ughhh.

      • Nefertari05 says:

        Absolutely.Great points, Rachael. As I posted in response to that article, Zimmerman could have had no idea whether Trayvon was an avg. ordinary kid, a “real” banger, or the young black teen who recently earned a perfect score on his SATs. Nor, should it have made a difference. The fact was – he wasn’t commiting any crime, and the extent of fogen’s responsibilities ended with the call to police. You don’t get to kill people “on spec”!

      • Rachael says:

        Sorry for all the typos, I was texting it from my phone. But you are right Nefertari05. His “responsibility” ended with calling the police. In reality, there was not even any need for him to wait for them. It isn’t like he saw anything happening. He reported it and should have moved along. He is not a police officer who is able to stop someone for reasonable suspicion. He was just a “concerned” citizen.

        Now all he is is a(n) (alleged) murderer.

    • ladystclaire says:

      You know, what really pisses me off is the *FACT* that, whites commit *CRIMES* just as well as blacks do but, they as a whole are not looked down on the way they look down on *ALL* blacks. people in their own race commit crimes but, they turn a blind eye to them and only see what blacks do. just in case they didn’t know it, there is good and bad in everybody and every race, not just the black race.

      • So I guess I’m one of the “THEY’S” as I am white?

      • Rachael says:

        I get so mad at the outhouse where every day they have story after story of bad things young black males do and instead of directing them toward just that particular young black male, they attach it to all young black males, in particular Trayvon, regardless of what the story is about. I do NOT understand it.

        It makes me want to start my own blog of crimes by white young males. It isn’t like there aren’t any, especially where I live. But of course, they get kind of glorified, like the Barefoot Bandit.

        Yes, ladystclaire, I understand you completely and it pisses me off too.

        • Xena says:

          Jodi Arias could be GZ’s sister.

          Adam Lanza could have been Junior’s brother.

          James Holmes could be Papa Zim’s son.

          See, that’s how you do it to make Zidiots mad. 😉

          • jm says:

            “Jodi Arias could be GZ’s sister.”

            No doubt about it. Incredibly stupid liars who are full enough of themselves that they think they can outwit others. So much detail in their lies too, which I think they use to deflect focus on the actual lie itself. Another thing they have in common is I want to smack them to shut them up.

          • Xena says:

            @jm. I love the way that the prosecutor worked on cross-examination getting Jodi to acknowledge what she claimed to have forgotten about stabbing Travis and slitting his throat ear to ear.

            Re-direct starts Monday.

            Oh — and I think the judge also wants to smack Jodi to shut her up.

      • Nefertari05 says:

        LOL – I haven’t been watching the testimony, but from what I can gather, she would give fogen a run for his money in the “my story is so unbelievable as to actually be absurd” stakes.

        • Xena says:

          @Nefertari05

          LOL – I haven’t been watching the testimony, but from what I can gather, she would give fogen a run for his money in the “my story is so unbelievable as to actually be absurd” stakes.

          Jodi is like GZ in the sense that she evades answering questions by having memory lapses, using distraction, or wanting to expound. It surprises me that her attorneys did not instruct her to answer “yes” and “no” questions accordingly, and let them know if there is an explanation they should bring up during re-direct.

          Allowing her to argue with the prosecutor only makes her re-direct look like giving her opportunity to make excuses rather than giving a total picture of the truth.

          Here’s an excerpt before the State concluded cross.

          • jm says:

            Xena: It surprises me that her attorneys did not instruct her to answer “yes” and “no” questions accordingly…..

            I believe her attorneys, especially the male, enjoy seeing her fluster the prosecutor, and do discourage her to answer yes and no questions.

          • Xena says:

            @jm. You mean the attorney who for the last 2 days of cross-examination has sat there with his legs crossed making objections that the judge overrules? 🙂

          • jm says:

            Xena: “You mean the attorney who for the last 2 days of cross-examination has sat there with his legs crossed making objections that the judge overrules.”

            Yes. He’s kind of a jerk. I saw him smile and shake his head yes when Jodi gave prosecutor some kind of a round-about answer and smirk afterward as she looked at the jury. Wonder how the jury feels about her smirks and trying to one-up the prosecutor. It’s almost like she loses track of the fact she butchered this guy, shot him in the face and is on trial for her life. She seems at times to smugly enjoy flustering the prosecutor with no regard to the reason she is there testifying.

            I just hope GZ takes the stand like Jodi.

          • Xena says:

            @jm

            Wonder how the jury feels about her smirks and trying to one-up the prosecutor.

            That doesn’t come across good for Jodi. At one point, she accused the prosecutor of being mean to her “like Travis.”

            Oh well, at least the smirks got through her audition to be in porn. I think she went into her private sex life to humiliate Travis’ family, when all it did was make her look like a slut.

            After trying to make things sound as though Travis was causing her to betray obedience to Mormon doctrine, that fool answered the prosecutor’s question about intimacy after she killed Travis by saying, “I’m single” — with a smirk.

            I just hope GZ takes the stand like Jodi.

            Since he’s claiming self-defense, he is the best witness for his defense. If he doesn’t testify, it’s because O’Mara knows that GZ is a liar who can’t keep his own lies straight.

          • jm says:

            Xena: “Since he’s claiming self-defense, he is the best witness for his defense. If he doesn’t testify, it’s because O’Mara knows that GZ is a liar who can’t keep his own lies straight.”

            It’s not like Jodi can keep her lies straight. Wonder what her attorney’s were thinking. I think MOM should let GZ take his best shot and tell the jury about what happened that he had to kill Trayvon – just like he did on Hannity interview. LOL.

          • Xena says:

            @jm

            It’s not like Jodi can keep her lies straight. Wonder what her attorney’s were thinking.

            They were probably thinking that if she testified about shooting Travis, but not stabbing and slitting his throat damn near to his spine, that she would still be convicted but not get the death penalty.

            I think MOM should let GZ take his best shot and tell the jury about what happened that he had to kill Trayvon – just like he did on Hannity interview. LOL.

            Yeah, smirks and all. If he does the “all God’s plan” thing, he had better hope there are no Pentecostals on the jury. 🙂

          • jm says:

            “They were probably thinking that if she testified about shooting Travis, but not stabbing and slitting his throat damn near to his spine, that she would still be convicted but not get the death penalty.”

            I hope she doesn’t get the death penalty because I don’t believe in it, but she is truly one of the most evil people I have seen by the nature of how she killed this man and how she set up her alibi sending him texts, e-mails and voice mails after he died in such a horrific manner and now maligns his name calling him a pedophile.

          • Xena says:

            @jm I’m with you concerning the death penalty — don’t believe in it either. Some defense attorneys, when the death penalty is on the table, will represent the client knowing there will be a conviction, but in effort to save them from the needle. O’Mara has done that in fact and takes credit for getting a life sentence rather than the needle.

            The prosecutor did a great job when questioning her about altering the crime scene, sending the email, voice mail, etc. When he introduced her journal, I thought the defense was going to have a coronary. There were numerous side-bars as the prosecution referred to Jodi’s journal.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Rachael, I’m so glad that you got my drift. I in no way directed my comment towards all whites. but, I still stand by what I said about how one AA can commit a crime and, that one person’s crime is the crime of all blacks. I’m so glad you understood what I meant.

  12. Xena says:

    GZ tells why he killed Trayvon — because he felt his authority was questioned. What authority? So O’Mara doesn’t know why the feds are still investigating? This should tell him why.

    • Rachael says:

      What a bizarre thing to say after shooting someone, but you are right. He drops his reason right there. I sure hope this gets brought up.

    • ay2z says:

      “I wouldn’t question your authority.” Sure sounds like fogen wants authority for some reason and he doesn’t have much faith in his own presence, needs a big male Rottweiler to provide the testosterone factor for him as some scare factor to cover his own inadequacies, and needs a semi-auto tiny-hidey gun with hollow point bullets, to give him the authority that he craves.

      • Dave says:

        I wonder what happened to the dog. I hope he ended up in a good home. I doubt it though. One more life ruined by the killer.

      • Xena says:

        @ay2z

        Sure sounds like fogen wants authority for some reason and he doesn’t have much faith in his own presence, needs a big male Rottweiler to provide the testosterone factor for him as some scare factor to cover his own inadequacies, and needs a semi-auto tiny-hidey gun with hollow point bullets, to give him the authority that he craves.

        Sure, because if he concentrated on work and study, he might have passed his 2 year community college courses and graduated before the age of 45.

    • Trained Observer says:

      To me, this snippet shows he’s moving into “small talk” schmooze gear. Silence (as being dished out by the female law enforcement officer) makes many people uncomfortable. This schmuck thinks he can small-talk his way into “have you ever tried to shoot someone: camaraderie.

      Am sure the law enforcement officer was charmed by his sexist assessment, comparing her with his sure-fire mess of a wifey, Mrs. Fogen …

      My disgust for this creep knows no bounds.

    • Authority is his precious, the god for whom he lusts. He emits a sob or two and some tears as he plays up to her, as if to seduce by seeking sympathy, and then says his wife “is a mess.”

      That little scene made my skin crawl.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Professor — Is it likely (or even remotely possible) that the jury would be shown “mindset” scenes from cop shop interviews such as the above?

      • Xena says:

        @Professor

        That little scene made my skin crawl.

        Same here. I hope the prosecution gets to show that to the jury.

      • Xena says:

        @Professor

        …as if to seduce by seeking sympathy, and then says his wife “is a mess.”

        He advanced to using a woman in effort to get sympathy from a woman. Very cunning.

        Sure, ShelLIE was a mess. Being unemployed herself, she wouldn’t want her husband in jail. It means she might have to get a job — something she still hasn’t done after a year.

      • xy11xy says:

        There’s another exchange too, I think where Singleton is asking about his head and face injuries. I swear(it’s not video) that he begins to sob as he tells her about his owies.

        To her credit, Singleton doesn’t soften her voice or break her stride once to baby him.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Which simply goes to show how self focused GZ is. He hasn’t the sense to realize that a female officer, with all the trials and tribulations she had to navigate to get there, is going to have much sympathy for a “big baby”, who has done nothing but cry about his own problems, after killing an unarmed child.

          Nor does this “big baby” realize that a police officers hope is to complete their careers without having to kill anyone at all. Since police work is about humanity at it’s most basic level, and not about authority, except perhaps in hindsight. Because, on the face of each police involved event they are called to, there is the very real prospect of the officers own demise that has to be pushed to the rear. At that point in time, the ability to “hide behind a badge” has little to nothing to offer in ameliorating fears and misgivings. Only the will and desire to do something good can do that. But GZ hasn’t a clue about how a badge takes second and third place in real police work. Thus he’s giving her reasons to be thoroughly disgusted with his dangerous and comical views of how authority is some kind of “bulletproof shield” she can rely upon.

          As if, when a police officer goes out to a crime scene, or on a call, how they swagger and posture is an important part of their self defense! So, she’s sure to have realized that she had an ignorant groupie screwball on her hands.

          • racerrodig says:

            i think he ticked her off to no end when he asked if she ever shot or killed anyone……then that silence which she did specifically, then his attempt to “flirt” then “…my wife is a mess…” comment.

            I think these 2 words were foremost in her thoughts “..Up Yours..”

            But that’s just me.

  13. type1juve says:

    Fogen’s like a chameleon, he changes to whatever the occasion calls for. He’s very concerned about projecting the right image… I guess he got that from Gladys.

    • Xena says:

      @type1juve

      …He’s very concerned about projecting the right image… I guess he got that from Gladys.

      She’s the one who told her children to marry White. Now, I hope this is taken the wrong way, does he not realize that there are Whites and Latinos who will look upon him unfavorably for marrying a White woman that a White man didn’t want.

    • cielo62 says:

      type1juve~ except for recently, showing up over 100 lbs. heavier. THAT is not a good image.

  14. type1juve says:

    He does look “suspicious” doesn’t he? There’s something wrong with him. I don’t know what his deal is.

    • racerrodig says:

      “He does look “suspicious” doesn’t he? There’s something wrong with him. I don’t know what his deal is……..” and he’s Afro – Peruvian……and he’s got a gun in his waistband “

      • Jun says:

        Passport = claims to be white

        Driver’s License = claims to be white

        Invalid CCW license = claims to be white

        Arrested and Indicted on murder 2 = has brother go around everywhere claiming to be Afro Peruvian

        LOL

  15. ladystclaire says:

    I don’t know if any of you guys paid much attention to the photo of Fogen when he was around I think aged ten. but, for me myself when I looked at that photo of him, I could see it plain as day that this *THING* had the look of evil in his eyes even at such a young age. his smile was that of a very sneaky person and, he looked like he was spawned from the devil himself.

    • Xena says:

      @ladystclaire

      his smile was that of a very sneaky person and, he looked like he was spawned from the devil himself.

      Glad you said it first. I didn’t want to be the first out of concern of being called crazy.

      Did you see the movie “Bad Seed.” GZ reminds me of that little girl. She could charm the socks of folks but if she couldn’t have her way, she got even by killing.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Xena, I’ll be more than happy to be called crazy one out of the bunch. I looked at that photo of him, and right from jump street I could see the evil in his dark eyes. I hate to say/feel this way about a child but, in his case it’s too obvious to overlook it. that evil cold look in his eyes gives me the willies!

        • Xena says:

          @ladystclaire

          I hate to say/feel this way about a child but, in his case it’s too obvious to overlook it. that evil cold look in his eyes gives me the willies!

          At the age of 8, GZ knew enough about molesting his cousin to tell her what to say if they were caught. Yep. Something’s wrong with him.

        • racerrodig says:

          FogenPhoole……kind of like this kid

  16. colin black says:

    An as a Brit we have jimmysav ill pperv
    Aloowed to rape an molest children gieing of cancer.
    With a nod an a wink from the P T B Establishment going right up to tea with the Queen an M Thatcher loved him.

    An yet after his death we find out he was investigated by seven differnt police forces.
    That on a cruise on the Canberra the Captain had him thrown in the brig an the deported at Malta for haveing been caught haveing sexual intercoure with a 13 yr old.
    The Captain put him in the brig for protection as the girsls Father went looking to eject him overboard.

    All of this was hushed up any reporter of paper going to priny thease allegation.
    Was imeadiatle knee deep in writs an libel siutes

    An to cap it all we find out he wasnt alone many other bbc both in front an behind cameras knew the score many participated
    It was a culture off abuse that we the british public were forced to pay for via an anual licance fee,
    Its stands at 145 pounds a year now,
    But Im never giveing those preverts another penny of my hard earned cash.

    In fact Im thinking of asking for a rebate.
    I very very rarely even watch a bbc station.
    An if they want to send me to prison for not paying my fee over to a pack
    Of liars blame shifters an enablers/
    Ill take them all the way to the Court off Human rights if need be

    Ban the fee tv is free

    Except to the likes o mee an thee.

    Ban the fee you paid to that smarmy DJ.

    Hows about that then ladies an gentlemen.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Jimmy Savile was quite the mess.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        no scrit – as one who can spend hours during the wee hours scouring the net for early video of the stones and the who that were likely performed when i was still in diapers, i am sickened at the number of times that ugly face raises its head.

        as colin said ‘glass houses and all’ – i hold neither the US nor the UK to be superior to the other with ‘separate but equal’ pitfalls — but dayam, how was that creep allowed to maintain his position? i guess it’s just the jerry sandusky from across the pond o’scum.

  17. kindheart101 says:

    OMG! Professor? I hate to tell ya…….Crane-Station has topped you, hands down!

    I am just in trying to catch up before I call it a night. Still not feeling well, but Crane has me LMAO!

    Great article. 🙂

  18. ChrisNY~Laurie says:

    I was just reading at http://gzlegalcase.com/ and the defense posted a comment titled, “REGARDING UNITED STATES OF AMERICA’S OBJECTION TO ORDER ON AMENDED DEMAND FOR SPECIFIC DISCOVERY”.

    MOM sounds embarrassed by the FBI’s response because they made it sound like he didn’t follow proper procedure and is explaining to Fogen’s “supporters” why they requested the info from the FBI in the first place. He says that the State won’t get the info for them or provide them with the info they want…which they are saying is the report that clears Fogen of claims of racism, of profiling, and of civil rights violation. So, if they haven’t seen this report that clears Fogen…does that mean it may not exist??? That maybe the FBI hasn’t even completed their reoprt yet? Hmmm

    And what could this “long process” be that they are talking about of gaining access to relevant aspects of the FBI file regarding its investigation into possible civil rights violations in regards to the shooting of Trayvon Martin. This was the first step in a long process he says.

    • Rachael says:

      I just can’t figure him out. He keeps saying it isn’t about race but then all he talks about is race.

      • Jun says:

        Omara

        “I will not try this case in the media” then goes on a media onslaught and rampage

        “I will do this case pro bono” then proceeds to take control of Fogenhats’ donations site and charge him $400 to whore around the media

        “This case is not about race” which the state agrees but then Omara proceeds to endlessly talk about race, the race chameleon known as the Fogenhats family

        “The FBI has cleared Fogenhats” and then proceeds to claim he has not gotten any files whatsoever from the FBI

        “I will be ready in 6 months” and then asks for the trial to be in June and the SYG to be in April

        “I need a continuance” after being granted June and April for the respective dates

        LMAO

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        He’s got to talk about race, it’s the only issue he can talk about where there’s any possible issue that he can pretend matters in this case. Because, by now he’s got to have read the opposing blogs, to see if he can get a handle on, what those cryptic remarks BDLR made, might be about.

        He must have seen a deluge of postings and he may even have seen Tchoupi’s analysis. That disproves that GZ parked in front of the clubhouse. Where, the only car to come by in the proper time frame and therefore must be GZ, even passes up the front gate to hunt. Which disproves the claimed trip to the store.

        Which means that while he’s either driving back towards Taaffe’s or home, he suddenly turns around and goes back, and stops by the mail boxes, where Trayvon has to be waiting already. Which is exactly what DD believes Trayvon has told her. The time is fixed by the start of GZ’s NeN call. MOM must have turned white as a sheet when he began reading how much we knew and were figuring out.
        So that now even he can’t bring himself to discuss anything other than racial issues, because to do anything else, is to load the minds of potential jurors with false exculpatory evidence, they will not hear repeated at trial.

        A juror may still be seated, while harboring some impression that there had been a fight of some kind. Why wouldn’t such a juror be seated? After all, isn’t this exactly what MOM’s opening statement will advise? What a shock it would then be, to finally retire to deliberate, and not have heard anything more asserted about any such fight? Or, to the contrary, evidence that Trayvon’s hands never touch GZ at all. Worse, that the only possible witness is GZ himself, and that he is a proven liar whose statements cannot be relied upon without collateral support.

        So, while race may be a non issue in this case, MOM needs somethings to say to fill the time for the prospective donors he hopes to attract.

    • Jun says:

      It is very simple

      Omara is a representative for Fogenhat Snake Oil Ltd

      They never cleared Fogenhats of anything

      the USA simply stated that they were investigating

      The Feds are allowed to do a trial by ambush so they do not have to give Fogenhats a bloodclot thing

      Chalk it up to more lies and misinformation from Omara

    • groans says:

      OMG! Thanks for the link! This MOM posting is so full of “smoke and mirrors BS” that it provides plenty of fodder for the professor’s next article! Talk about BULLSHIT!

    • Nefertari05 says:

      Oh,I think he was clearly mortified. What got me, though, was the ending of two consecutive paragraphs. In the paragraph following the introduction he closes with:

      “The purpose for our DEMAND FOR SPECIFIC DISCOVERY in regards to FBI documents, and the Court’s subsequent order, was to begin the long process of gaining access relevant aspects of the FBI file regarding its investigation into POSSIBLE CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATIONS in regards to the shooting of Trayvon Martin.”(emphasis added)

      In the very next paragrapth he states this:

      “We understand the FBI is following proper procedure in this matter, and we will continue to work with them to gain appropriate access to information that may be relevant to our case. Unfortunately, we may not have the time to fight for access to additional documents BEFORE TRIAL BEGINS IN LESS THAN 100 DAYS.”(emphasis added)

      Then his final paragraph states this:

      “Because claims of racism, of profiling, and of civil rights violations are central to the national attention this case has received, and indeed were central to the calls for Mr. Zimmerman’s arrest, the findings of the FBI’s investigation are very relevant. We would hope that everyone who wants to base their opinion on factual information would want this discovery available as well.”

      They may be central to the national attention. They may be central to the call for arrest. What they are NOT central to is your Case. Who are you fooling?
      So, you’re after the Civil Rights case file, and trying to verbally connect it to the state case. But, your client is not charged with a hate crime, and you do happen to have a defamation suit against a major network, based on issues dealing with racism. But, that won’t happen until after the state trial.

      You were just denied a continuance for the state trial. You have final witness lists in 4 wks, a scheduled (but not filed) Immunity Hearing in 7 weeks, and a high-profile murder trial in app 3months – yet, your priority is going after the (on-going investigation) case file, that you claim you know procedures and regs for, so you know you won’t get it; on a case that hasn’t even been charged, to assist you in a case that hasn’t been scheduled, at the expense of a case whose most important dates are looming fast, and you requested a continuance for because you just didn’t have enough time to do all that was needed to be done, to be prepared…

      Does anyone else get the impression he’s thrown fogen under the bus, and has moved on to the next case(NBC)?

      • SearchingMind says:

        Excellent analysis. O’Mara just did BDLR’s work for him: the material sought with the motion for specific discovery has nothing to do with the case. All BDLR needs to do now is to print out O’Mara’s statement and read it out verbatim before the Court as State’s reply. I see no reason for the Court’s Order to stand either in its current- or amended form. Judge Nelson simply has no business ordering the federal government on what (not) to do. I think therefore that the Court will withdraw the Order (just a small embarrassment for Nelson).
        Reading between the lines, I think O’Mara is confirming – without actually saying it – that there will be NO immunity hearing (he laments only the “less than 100 days before the trial begins”).

      • He must know that he’s not going to get the FBI file, ever.

        He’s just grandstanding for media attention always attempting to keep a pretty ball spinning in the air to distract everyone from the central truth: he has no case.

        I forgot to add that he already has some FBI interviews that were released in discovery. I think it may have been the second dump.

      • xy11xy says:

        We would hope that everyone who wants to base their opinion on factual information would want this discovery available as well.”

        So… there are people out there who have opinions of whether George is racist.

        These people should want to “base their opinions on factual information”…O’Mara insinuates that they are not.

        O’Mara employs the multi-pronged-shit-storm approach! He implicates the people(black people, black writers) out there with opinions about whether George is racist…..who should want to be factual(but are not), in the cover up of information that would clear George’s name.

        At the same time….he also suggests that those same people (black people, black writers) should pressure the FBI and the State to release whatever civil rights information they have.

      • Nefertari05 says:

        O’Mara’s work on this case is just “unfathomable”, to put it in moderate terms (imo). They just don’t make sense. As the professor has remended us, he got FBI statements of witnesses reagrding fogen’s potential prejudice toward blacks. Of course, he probably didn’t get *all* of it, but that’s what happens during an ongoing investigation, which he claims he knows.

  19. colin black says:

    Jun Jun says:

    March 1, 2013 at 6:40 pm

    There’s something wrong with the media in America

    Any other part of this world, he’d be in prison by now

    None of this nonsense

    It is obviously not self defense for the defendant

    I do not believe this Fogenhats character can stalk and chase down a kid with a gun, attack and shoot the kid, molest the dying kid’s body, and he is walking around lying and pretending like it is nothing

    Jun any other part of the world is to broad a Statement.

    Many countries have let seemingly overwhelmingly guilty people off with out consiquece.
    Admittedly with perps liike Justin Depero takeinf a life insurance policy out on his baby son.
    Broadcast that you think someone stalkin your house an pooph he disapears.
    Baby Lisa
    Haighlaigh Cummings Hailey Dunn
    An I could go on an on an on.
    Seems that no matter how bizzaro the storys they tell.
    Fail lie detectors.
    uNLESS THEY FESS UP or a body an evidence trails back to them.

    Thease missing children just seem like to much hassle to investigate.
    Even with the perps sttareing them in the face withdupers delight.

    Not just Children that lunatic mormon guw took his two childdren out on a camping trip in the middle of a blizzard.
    The night his wife goes missing.
    Never charged nevr taken into custody on some sorta pretence
    child cruelty?
    So they could search that house an use dogs an luminol ect.
    Nah just carry on regarless.
    Evidence emerges he is intersted in young children sexually.

    Evidence against both he an his Father whom daily trash the missing/murdered womans name.

    Even afer all this is known they still give him the opertunity to burn his house down an murder his children

    As we have seen in S Africa the colour of justice is dollar green or whatever colour rands are.
    Ahruba let a guilty boy strut around free.
    China is full of high ranking part oficals an there familys whom are held to acount for nothing.

    I think America has to bond inunity statehood shouldnt mean independance from laws in other states.
    You legal ststem has to unify under one banner.
    An also the laws state per state must remain constant.

    Youve got to find a balance between converbelt justice speedy tral not with standing.
    But cut out all the unnessesery make work paper work that allows defendants.
    An there clients to draw cases out for years.

    The Jury system is flawed as we have had first hand proof with the stupiity of some jurours ecently in the UK.
    You had the pinnellass pin heads.

    People dont need to be judged by there peer group.
    Seeing as most people on trials peers groups are fellons

    Some sort of profesinal jury system is needed where
    Citizens of proven good will an charecter /
    Maybe retired librarians doctors or what ever
    A bit like a grand jury theres a group of say couple hundred per State willing to serve on jurys for a time period to be decided
    As example say 18 mnths

    They would get recompenced if they wished some may DO IT FOR ALLTRUISTIC REASONS.

    Americas legal system is certainly out of control an ungainly .
    But people in glass houses an all that.
    An the U K is far from perfect.

  20. Judy75201 says:

    I’ve been accused of being a Pollyanna in the past, and maybe that’s why I wonder if the reason the media is being so neutral is to lessen the grounds for appeal after fogen is convicted?

    • roderick2012 says:

      Judy, I don’t understand your point.

      O’Mara can’t claim that George didn’t get a fair trial due to extensive pre-trial publicity when HE and George’s friends and family members have intentionally attempted to taint the jury pool by demonizing Trayvon and playing the race card.

  21. Snark Alert! Crane is in the house with Onion News.

  22. Jun says:

    Title XLVI
    CRIMES
    Chapter 776
    JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE
    View Entire Chapter
    776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
    (1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
    (2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
    (a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
    (b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

    ==========================================================================================================

    784.048 Stalking; definitions; penalties.—

    (3) Any person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person, and makes a credible threat with the intent to place that person in reasonable fear of death or bodily injury of the person, or the person’s child, sibling, spouse, parent, or dependent, commits the offense of aggravated stalking, a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

    ====================================================

    Fogenhats admitted himself to following the kid in his car and on foot, so it sounds like to me, he committed aggravated stalking or was attempting to commit aggravated stalking, because Fogenhats made a credible threat to Trayvon’s life by stalking and chasing him by car and on foot with a gun, while calling the kid an asshole and a fucking coon/punk, and even in his re-enactment he admits to at least attempting to commit aggravated stalking, therefore, he has no SYG LOL

    ===================================================

    Title XLVI
    CRIMES
    Chapter 784
    ASSAULT; BATTERY; CULPABLE NEGLIGENCE
    View Entire Chapter
    784.021 Aggravated assault.—
    (1) An “aggravated assault” is an assault:
    (a) With a deadly weapon without intent to kill; or
    (b) With an intent to commit a felony.
    (2) Whoever commits an aggravated assault shall be guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

    ==================================================

    Witness and forensic testimony show that Fogenhats went at Trayvon with a gun, therefore, it is aggravated assault with a gun, and again no SYG LOL

    • Dave says:

      The killer did not REPEATEDLY follow, harass, or cyberstalk Trayvon. Therefore 784.048 doesn’t apply.

      • Rachael says:

        Well he did follow him once in the car then repeated on foot so sorta kinda

        • Xena says:

          In stalking law, “repeatedly” is not necessarily the same as “continuously.” “Repeatedly” conveys a stop or pause in action and then a continuation of the same action. Neither does it mean more than once as in different days. It can be repeated action more than once on the same day. I offer this because I heard an attorney argue a stalking case.

          By analogy, a person can be followed. They go to work. When they leave work, the person following them is there and once again follows them. That is what makes it stalking. That is what makes it repeatedly.

          GZ observed Trayvon. When Trayvon moved, GZ moved his vehicle to follow. When Trayvon ran, GZ got out of his vehicle and followed him. Thus, GZ repeated his action of following.

      • Jun says:

        (1) He followed Trayvon by car

        (2) He got out of his car and followed on foot

        (3) He made a credible threat to Trayvon’s safety

        Also on the SYG, attempting to commit a forcible felony makes your self defense claim null and void

      • Jun says:

        http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/repeatedly

        There is the dictionary definition of the word REPEATEDLY

        Fogenhats repeatedly and continuously followed Trayvon and made a credible threat to his life

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          GZ’s failure to announce or identify that he was not a threat and/or that he meant no harm by what he was doing, gives Trayvon the right to assume that GZ’s strange and unexplained behavior was a serious threat to himself.

          Of course GZ never did identify himself, or make any other effort to prevent a “deadly attack” on his “harmless self”, because he felt himself in no danger, therefore he had no need to abate the hostile atmosphere he had created.

          Let’s face it, a truly harmless person, with no harmful intent, would have identified himself and explained his behavior when asked “why are you following me for?” Because that’s what harmless people with good intentions do when challenged, they answer as a way to prevent a fight. Belligerently aggressive people will meet a challenge with a challenge of their own, because they feel secure enough to welcome a fight.

          GZ would therefore welcome this “skinny blink” to “take his best shot”, knowing he wouldn’t be harmed badly enough to prevent his own retaliation from repudiating his opponent.

          • Lonnie

            Would behave done the same had he been without his “pocket penis”?

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Doubtful in the extreme, since he has to be assured of being able to permanently dispose of witnesses. He could have killed Trayvon with his bare hands, but that would have taken too much time and obvious effort, that could too easily be observed, not like a single sneaky gunshot. Notice that he doesn’t ever expose himself to danger at all, until he starts carrying.

          • First cup of coffee

            Behave = he have…

            Now back to our regularly scheduled coffee 🙂

      • Jun says:

        http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/repeatedly

        There is the merriam webster definition and it is defined as

        “again and again”

      • Rachael says:

        And he did do it wilfully and maliciously.

        • cielo62 says:

          AND the “repeatedly part” can all be on ONE episode. It doesn’t necessarily mean stalking over time. GZ followed by car, on foot and avoided several times where he could identify him self. That is ALSO “repeatedly”.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            A very serious question that the SP should be sure to put before the jury is: How does it come to be that — a person who vows to protect the neighborhood and the neighbors, as well as the good citizens within it — ends up shooting to death a peacefully law abiding child who happens to traverse the grounds without doing anything wrong?

            a) When he has agreed not to follow suspects?
            b) When he has agreed not to carry a firearm while on patrol?
            c) When he has agreed that patrolling is not his duty?
            d) When he agreed to abide by the law?
            e) When he has no investigative duties?
            f) When he has no uniform or other advertisement of his purposes?
            g) When he refuses to identify himself to a person he has caused to fear himself?
            h) When that person, whom he has given cause to fear for their own safety, was a child?

            i) Why did none of these above listed ideas ever occur to him?
            j) Would any of the ideas, listed above, if considered, have prevented the killing?
            k) And finally, was it his duty to be aware of and/or to consider any of the above listed ideas, before he decided to ignore the police operators admonishment not to continue to follow?

            Because, if he did not consider any of the above, then he must have felt that he had the right, to pursue anyone he suspected, while armed, and to kill them if they attacked him.

      • Dave says:

        I think that the following best applies to the killer’s pursuit of Trayvon prior to the first overtly violent act:

        The 2009 Florida Statutes

        Title XLVI
        CRIMES Chapter 784
        ASSAULT; BATTERY; CULPABLE NEGLIGENCE View Entire Chapter

        784.011 Assault.–

        (1) An “assault” is an intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the person of another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent.

        (2) Whoever commits an assault shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
        History.–s. 5, Feb. 10, 1832; RS 2400; GS 3226; RGS 5059; CGL 7161; s. 1, ch. 70-88; s. 729, ch 71-136; s. 17, ch. 74-383; s. 7, ch. 75-298; s. 171, ch. 91-224.

        Note.–Former s. 784.02.

        I believe that any reasonable person would interpret a pursuit down a dark, deserted “alley” as a threat of imminent violence.

    • Nefertari05 says:

      I looked up the legal definition of “menacing”, as well. Here’s what I found:
      “Menacing is a crime governed by state laws, which vary by state, but typically involves displaying a weapon or a course of conduct that intentionally places another person in reasonable fear of physical injury or death…. Menacing in the first degree is a class E felony.”
      http://definitions.uslegal.com/m/menacing/

      “Course of conduct” would seem to discribe fogen’s actions to a T. I used that definition to search for a Florida statute, but unfortunately, the only thing I could find was menacing having to do with dogs. Maybe they don’t have one for people?

  23. Judy75201 says:

    I see now that he said “last year” so I apologize for making it appear he said that in his depo yesterday ( which is what I initially thought).

    • groans says:

      Actually, we’ve noticed in the past that the OS writes things so incompetently that it’s very easy to come away with the wrong “take away.”

      I wonder, myself, if they might do it intentionally. Just sayin’ ….. 😉

      • Judy75201 says:

        I just need to learn to slow down when I read! Since I didn’t recall reading anything about “one person” before, I made an assumption that I was reading “fresh” news. Again, so sorry!

      • fauxmccoy says:

        Actually, we’ve noticed in the past that the OS writes things so incompetently that it’s very easy to come away with the wrong “take away.”

        ain’t that the truth! my disgust with ms stutzman grows daily.

  24. Judy75201 says:

    The Orlando Sentinal reported today that the young boy walking his dog said in his deposition yesterday that he only saw one person when he saw a man in red on the ground. The order of events he testified to are not clear in the article. Sorry, I don’t know how to post a link from my iPad (or rather, how to copy/paste).

    • groans says:

      I don’t believe the OS is supposed to be privy to deposition testimony.

      I haven’t seen the article yet, but if you’re correct, I think the judge needs to be made aware of that.

      • groans says:

        … And especially should not be tying specific deposition statements to that minor child. (Although what you cited is consistent with his statements in discovery, as I recall – and with what he said in some video I saw.)

    • Jun says:

      Yeah that is correct. The boy did state he only saw one person on the ground by himself that was wearing red and he felt it looked like the guy slipped and fell.

      • groans says:

        June, my “INCORRECT” entry, below is directed to Judy 75201 – not you.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        I think Austin only saw the person on top. He saw the back of the person.
        Other witnesses made that same mistake.
        This is how W1 describes the body:

        18:20 Batchelor: Did you go back to the window and look again?
        18:22 W1: Yes.
        18:24 Batchelor: Immediately after you heard the shot?
        18:27 W1: As soon as I heard the shot I went back and looked. And…
        18:32 Batchelor: What did you see?
        18:35 W1: I saw the body!
        18:39 Batchelor: Did you see anybody else?
        18:41 W1: I can’t remember seeing anybody else. At this time the light was on so you could see.
        18:49 Batchelor: A light was on?
        18:51 W1: There was a light on in the back. From what I remember, a light was on at the time. It wasn’t on before.
        19:04 Batchelor: What happened next?
        19:06 W1: Then I went upstairs. I told my sister, “I think somebody’s shot outside.”
        19:14 Batchelor: And the body as you’re describing it, that you saw immediately after the gunshot, how was it positioned?
        19:25 W1: Um. It looked like… I’m trying to remember… It looked like it wasn’t straight down. But it was down and it looked like the legs was like this. Sort of like in a running position. But it was like this.
        19:54 Batchelor: Are you describing a face down position or a face up position.
        20:00 W1: Face down.
        20:07 Batchelor: And you only seen, as you are describing, the body.
        20:12 W1: Right.
        20:14 Batchelor: Noone else at that point?
        20:17 W1: Noone.
        20:19 Batchelor: Do you know what the body, or the person, was wearing?
        20:27 W1: I remember a jacket, and sweat pants, and black sneakers.
        20:35 Batchelor: Do you remember colors of the sweat pants or the jacket?
        20:40 W1: Um. I think the sweat pants was gray and the jacket was a reddish color. Wasn’t bright red. But it was in the red family, I guess. Red kinda pinkish, maroonish kind of looking color.
        21:18 Batchelor: And who are you describing the clothing for?
        21:22 W1: It was the body. That’s the only… I didn’t see a second person. The only other person I saw was the cop.

        We know Selma described GZ on top of Trayvon right after the shot.
        Here W1 describes GZ as the body. She didn’t see Trayvon beneath him.

    • groans says:

      You are INCORRECT.

      The OS wrote: “Last year, he told the Orlando Sentinel that while walking his dog he heard screams and someone crying for help. He saw one – not two – figures. The man he saw was on the ground, he said, and was wearing red.”

      Notice the “LAST YEAR” at the beginning?????

      Source: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-kid-deposed-20130301,0,4373484.story

      • Judy75201 says:

        Yes, I see that now, Groans. So sorry.

      • groans says:

        Not to worry. I should know better than to not check the source first. You’d be amazed, for example, how routinely lawyers write that a case stands for something, but when you go look it yourself it very plainly does not stand for that at all.

        BTW, to insert a link, all you need to do is copy the URL address of your source, and paste it into your message.

    • I haven’t read the article, but I’m surprised that Austin’s deposition testimony was leaked to the OS.

      Surprised in the sense that it is so improper for either party to do that, especially with a juvenile.

      Not surprised, if the defense did the leaking because they do sleazy things.

  25. Walmart shoplifter pulls gun on security, takes hostages inside store:

  26. Jun says:

    There’s something wrong with the media in America

    Any other part of this world, he’d be in prison by now

    None of this nonsense

    It is obviously not self defense for the defendant

    I do not believe this Fogenhats character can stalk and chase down a kid with a gun, attack and shoot the kid, molest the dying kid’s body, and he is walking around lying and pretending like it is nothing

    • ladystclaire says:

      I agree with you Jun, it’s past time for his fat ass to be locked up. I still don’t understand how he got to bond out of jail not once but, twice. if he had been a black man, there is no way in hell that this would have happened. I’m sick of him, his family, his defense team and, I’m also sick of those who seem to think it’s alright to kill an AA child and get away with it. as I have said many times before, the world is watching and seeing just how *ignorant* some people in this country really are.

      I don’t know what the feds have on this POS but, from the looks of it, it’s not looking too good for him and, I’m glad for that. they have something on him and, I think he knows it. just keep overeating Fogen, who cares about you eating yourself to death. I know I don’t!

  27. colin black says:

    colin black says:

    March 1, 2013 at 6:00 pm

    Just watch doc about R Chase the vampire killer.
    The detective whom arrested him knew he had already killed people with out remorse.
    He over killed with both knife an gun.
    He had slaughted a young Woman in Sacramento an made of with her 21mth old baby

    The Detectives arrived at the motel complex he lived at guns drawn .
    Knowing he was armed.
    No answer to his door but could hear movements.
    Not haveing a search warrant he went to phone his boss.
    AS he did so he spotted the suspect exiting the room.
    Carrying a carboard box full of bloody rags .
    He started to run away an his partner rugby tackled him to the ground.

    He fought like a tiger an reached for his handgun.
    Wherupon the other detective arrived gun cocked an stuck it in his ear hole and said.
    Stop fighting or I will blow your fn head off.

    He never stopped fighting an the detectives said thats when I realised Im not a cold blooded killer like he is.
    The struggle continued an they got him cuffed up .
    The inside of his room was wall to wall blood but no sign of the Baby.

    It struck me as the detective whom had the gun to his head said.
    I knew I could kill him an I knew it would have been justified.
    But we are policemen sworn to uphold the law an not cold blooded killers even of monsters that deserve to die.

    Kinda makes foggens excuses even more lame if thats at all possable.

    Reply

    • Good to see you back, we worked on that issue for a while, and believe it was an email typo at registration, b/c the email kept bouncing back undelivered. We think it is okay now.

  28. ay2z says:

    Another revisit.

  29. Trained Observer says:

    Here’s Slate’s take (by Justin Peters) on Flolrida Florida’s Stand Your Ground, with some key points.

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/03/01/trayvon_martin_george_zimmerman_stand_your_ground_is_a_terrible_law_why.html

  30. ay2z says:

    Why don’t the law makers just cut to the chase and allow the NRA to pick juries in cases which suit their needs?

    This defense claimant, fogen, had to kill once he thought the kid had his address. He went on to claim on Hannity, that even the police investigators told him that was the reason Trayvon was angry at him.

    Police who said that, were either in his imagination (or in reality, someone named buddy Mark), or saying it as a question, when asking ‘why was he so mad at you?’. (Serino wanted to know why, didn’t tell him why)

  31. Trained Observer says:

    Momsy is an embarrassment to Florida’s defense brigade.

  32. ay2z says:

    Hey, I’m sure y’all have seen the latest cry-try of O’Mara complaining publicly that *sob* they won’t get the FBI records in time for trial. He points out that he knew he couldn’t get the records he wants anyway, but asked Nelson instead of taking the necessary steps. (why? thinking retrial? He didn’t do what was necessary and admits knowing how to do it, but because he says he believed that would fail, he asks the lower court and then cries about it in the media.)

    Is this some sort of unique move ? If so, sure looks like desperado time.

  33. xy11xy says:

    Look…If George can be heard cursing Trayvon on that 911 call….it would explain why he almost craps his pants when Serino plays the thing.

    He was sitting there thinking “I’m dead.”….but miraculously, they let him go home. George must have thought “What a bunch of losers. They hear me clear as day, and they still let me go!”

    ’cause remember, George knows exactly what he said, because HE WAS THERE!

    • gbrbsb says:

      Whoa! You’ve just given me a 2nd theory to ponder.

      I’ve had a theory from way back around that pesky little adverb “even”, that GZ uses when he tells Serino, “It doesn’t even sound like me” as it is most often used to indicate something other than the main idea that is easily deduced by the listener. Like if you said, “John never even spoke to her”… you would basically mean, John made no contact with her whatsoever, i.e. he didn’t write, telephone, email, etc. Or another example, “Sue is even prettier than her sister Mary”, so the listener deduces that Mary is also pretty but a bit less so than Sue.

      So when GZ says to Serino, “It doesn’t EVEN sound like me” I tried to think what could he expect Serino to deduce and the only thing I came up with so far was, “It doesn’t sound like me and the words aren’t mine either”. I mean had GZ recognised even one of the words or utterances, “I’m begging you”, “Stop”, “Help”, etc. he surely would have said something but he says nothing at all. Indeed I find it so strange he didn’t say something like, “OMG, that’s me, that’s me screaming “stop” ‘cos he was bashing my head on the concrete, and punching me, but my voice, I can’t recognise my voice, OMG”. Am I explaining myself?

      But your idea gives another angle. As you say if when GZ heard the tape he heard himself cursing, so as not to be discovered he might have flatly denied it all, i.e. “It doesn’t even sound like me and those aren’t my words”. I will have to ponder some more!

      • KittySP says:

        @gbrbsb – what I found disturbing about that interview and what, IMO, Serino may have noticed when playing the recorded 911 call and he said to GZ: “that’s you screaming”…I believe he noticed GZ not showing/reacting the way someone who claimed to have been so viciously attacked, would respond after hearing their own terrifying screams.
        You say: “Indeed I find it so strange he didn’t say something like, “OMG, that’s me, that’s me screaming “stop” ‘cos he was bashing my head on the concrete, and punching me”

        I can’t imagine anyone that had experienced such an act of violence against them not reacting in manner you describe.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          First off, he couldn’t allow himself to react to it, because of what he knew about it. What he knew about those screams, he knew he had to conceal, thus no reaction. Then, next, not wanting to discuss it, for fear of reality slipping past his lips, he diverts to discussing the screams themselves, to avoid discussing what would make him scream like that.

          At that point Serino should have said: Gee that sound horrible, what was he doing that made you scream like that? Then once he starts into it, keep yesssing him and keep him going. After all, in that situation he can’t say he forgot.

      • xy11xy says:

        @gbrbsb

        This is so, so good,..what you said!

        And, why would George need to recognize his own voice(and words) when he was ACTUALLY there! All he’d have to do is recall what happened.

        What you said is illuminating! I didn’t fully grasp what my own self was thinking! Thank you.

        I had just thought that if George was going to break down from the trauma he said he’d just experienced, it would be when that tape played. I picture him breaking into tears as the reality of how close he came to death(allegedly) hit home. Instead, I felt the energy shift in that room. My impression was of a heart skipping beats, and both breath and heart caught in throat with mouth gaping, and abject terror.

        And indeed if he did recall(’cause he was there) and recognize words(curses) that were being said, you are right, he would want to DISOWN the voice on the tape…the voice he was responding to.

        And the voice he was responding to could only have been his own!

        That is the voice his ear would hone in on.

        George disowns his own voice because to claim it would implicate him!

        This tangled web of lies!

        Oh my.

        • racerrodig says:

          Let me throw throw this out…..anybody here ever been in a rel traumatic situation, car accident., a major league dangerous situation, played sports where you made some tremendous play or to that effect. I have, made game winning plays, car accidents, serious situations, racing mishaps etc.

          “…..um…..gee detective….it was such a blur. I remember getting hit from behind…..and going down…..then I remember getting hit so hard I knew I was in serious trouble. I was so afraid I was in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm…….as sorry as I am to say, I had no choice”

          “What else can you remember….”

          “…um, not much….like I said, it all happened so fast I……oh, I do recall a porch light going on, but other than that…..”

          I have video of my driving one of my race cars, the other guy breaking a suspension component and the moves I made to avoid making contact with his car…..and I don’t remember one trick flick of the wheel. All I remember is seeing him in trouble, getting crossed up, knowing I did something and the win light going on in my lane.

          I have no memory of the critical 3 seconds at the 500 to 800 fooot mark. I can guarantee this is common.

      • gbrbsb says:

        @racer

        …anybody here ever been in a rel traumatic situation, car accident…

        I have been held twice at gunpoint. Once as the only client in a shop at closing time with a gunman pointing an automatic less than half a metre from my stomach and another with a shotgun demanding the owner hand over the “hidden” cash or they shoot me. A second when a neighbour in a friend’s block was held up in the lift so instead of taking the gunmen to her flat where she would be alone with them she wisely took them to another floor instead, the flat of a friend of mine and I was there invited for dinner so along with their two kids we were all held at gunpoint for around 3 hours while they took anything of value and while one of them took all our cards to a cash point (we had to give them the pin numbers) to withdraw all the cash they could. I may be unique, but from the second after each ended for years I recalled both events as watching them on video. I have been in other dangerous situations but these should be enough.

        I have no memory of the critical 3 seconds at the 500 to 800 fooot mark. I can guarantee this is common.

        Racer, I could better accept a theory of GZ not remembering due to confusion, trauma, etc. of a life changing event, BUT:

        1. It’s exactly the opposite, GZ DOES remember! From seconds after shooting Trayvon he tells all and sundry how he called out “help me” repeatedly even remembering how he made eye contact with a witness, so nope, not recognising his own voice or any words on that tape due to confusion doesn’t tally here imo.

        2. The incident didn’t happen over 3 seconds as per example. The screams are continual over a period of 30 or more and as MMP notes, there was a 5, 10 or more minute pursuit beforehand.

        3. As the professor notes in his post: “Zimmerman’s vital signs were all normal 15 minutes after the shooting and he declined transport to a hospital. His minor injuries were mere scrapes that required no stitches or bandages”.

        4. To the contrary, from what you see GZ appears to have been extremely calm, collected and composed after the shooting not showing any confusion or trauma at all. Indeed despite his repeated answer when in difficulty “I don’t remember” from a short scuffle he remembers: “shimmying” to grass to avoid Trayvon bashing his head on the concrete again; his jacket rising up and Trayvon noticing his gun; Trayvon saying “You gotta piece!”, “You gonna die tonight m**********r”, & “You got me” as well as “cursing” after being shot; calling “Help me” repeatedly; making eye contact with a neighbour and calling “Help me” to him; aiming the gun after making sure his hand wasn’t in the line of fire. And even after the shot he is composed and collected enough to: spread-eagle and frisk the dying Trayvon to allegedly disarm him so he was no longer a danger; holster his gun fearing the police could confuse him with the shooter when they arrived; discuss what gun and ammo he used with a neighbour; ask a neighbour to call his wife and tell her he shot someone; tell neighbours, police, and paramedics, he shot in self defence and that he had called out “help me” repeatedly and nobody came.

        So where Racer, where is his confusion, duress, or whatever you appear to be referring to? Furthermore, if correct what you are saying then are you not saying GZ was in shock after a life threatening situation, which continuing with that line of thought brings it to GZ shot Trayvon in the fog of the fight, i.e. in a panic, which continuing again the same in most people’s opinion would constitute self defence! So Racer, are you still saying GZ couldn’t remember his voice or the words and screams uttered because of being in a life threatening event cos IMO it does’t fit well with what you or I, or anyone else here have been arguing all these months.

        No offence meant!

        • racerrodig says:

          How could I take offense…you agreed with me….Fogen goes into so much detail when a normal person would not remember most of it. That’s my point.

          • Race…..I’ve been in a few life threatening situations……..they still play in my head…..sometimes even in slow motion…..

            For the most part I was pretty much a basket case right afterword.

            THAT’S the part that bothers me is fogen’s total lack of emotion that he…..for whatever reason, and just taken a human life and had just been in a life & death struggle…..

            Such composure?

      • gbrbsb says:

        @KittySP

        I believe he noticed GZ not showing/reacting the way someone who claimed to have been so viciously attacked, would respond after hearing their own terrifying screams.

        Exactly what I thought, how could it not jog his memory hearing his own voice pleading for his life… unless of course it wasn’t his voice the one you can hear most prominently!

      • gbrbsb says:

        @racerrodig

        How could I take offense…you agreed with me…

        Ok, sorry Racer, then we were talking at cross purposes, or you didn’t fully understand my post, or I didn’t understand yours because with statements like:

        I have no memory of the critical 3 seconds at the 500 to 800 fooot mark. I can guarantee this is common.

        I thought you were referring to it being normal that GZ wouldn’t recognise his own voice nor remember his words.

        On the other hand it’s difficult to affirm someone’s reaction by one’s own because we are all different. As I commented I was held at gun point twice in my late 20s and I remembered every single moment for many years after. And it wasn’t from fear because I was not “frightened”, as of screaming, trembling, etc., that all came afterwards like a flood as well as extreme anger that anyone had dared point a gun at me. No it was like it was happening in slow motion, even stop motion, maybe because by profession I am a graphic artist & illustrator for both moving image and print I am very tuned so it was as if I had my own video tape of them in my head.

        • racerrodig says:

          A neighbor of ours is a Psychologist and this is part of the bodies defense mechanism. Many times in a traumatic situation, you cannot recall all of the details…the event….yes…..the seriousness….yes…but very often the brain filters out the details.

          When that guys race care crossed into my lane and I was already at about 120 MPH and accelerating, I don’t recall what maneuvers I did to avoid a major crash. But there was a guy who got it on tape and when he showed it to me later I was stunned at how many times I changed direction, and to be honest, that was a driving demonstration, not one steering wheel movement do I recall.

          There is no way Fogen would remember all that shit if it happened the way he claims. The concussive nature of the beating alone would put him in “…just survive mode…” and in all reality, the script I posted is what most people would say.

          This is why some people go into shock or become catatonic. The brain is processing a major event that could have resulted in one’s own demise…..Fogen was nowhere near that stage. He was in control and knew it.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Simply put is that if GZ were in a life threatening situation, his focus would be so narrow, no details of anything outside the immediate situation would be noticeable, let alone memorable. He would not have been looking around, he would have been concentrating on his attacker and trying to escape and defend himself. Nothing else would matter.

            So, the only way he obtains the luxury to focus widely on extraneous detail is, the “attack” does not impress him as being a threat at all. And of course it shouldn’t because it did not occur.

            The problem with liars is, they have to deploy mental resources to recreate a vision of an imaginary event. But, because the construction is in the mind, impossible things can happen in the imagination of the minds eye.

            While the person who has witnessed an actual event, has no such drain on their mental resources, and because the things they’ve observed cannot contain the impossible, they are less likely to relate impossible observations. When they do, subsequent questioning and the testimony of others, usually reveals the reason behind the falsehoods and/or impossible observations. That does not happen with the fare of liars who are the only ones privy to the elements of the false creation.

          • racerrodig says:

            ” Nothing else would matter. ” You Got It !! Coupled with what I’ve said a thousand times here “The truth never changes……but the lie always morphs”

            I have witnessed many accidents and can remember the details. The few I’ve been in, and every one I was rear ended I can’t recall every detail. When I played football, I can remember running a pattern down field many a time, vaguely catching the ball and someone helping me up, after a whiff of smelling salts….or an ammonia capsule. That’s because I got planted…..my brain elected to forget the bad stuff.

            So FogenPhoole, despite getting his brain pounded on a solid surface got up and said to himself…..wow, that was close !! Not Hardly.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            So FogenPhoole, despite getting his brain pounded on a solid surface got up and said to himself…..wow, that was close !! Not Hardly.

            No… Worse: Brain getting pounded on the ground in a near death experience and all GZ claims to be thinking at the time is: “That Bstd John isn’t coming over here to help me!”

          • racerrodig says:

            If this were actually a true story, I doubt he’d have even noticed John. The brain blocks all of that out. When my son started pitching in Little League, he asked about the “…all eyes are on me..” aspect. I told him I thought the same thing playing football…..
            but once you throw the 1st pitch, you just concentrate on the task at hand. In my drag racing, the same thing….50,000 people watching at a National Event and 5,000 at a local event. There are those racers who want to tip the playing field by having their scantily clad wife or girlfriend get as close to the opponents car and look in, and do everything to distract during the burnout and staging. Real racers block all of that out.

        • cielo62 says:

          gbrbsb~ I once got thrown from a horse and I remember each and every second, like you say, in slow motion. I remember thinking about HOW I was going to fall as well as remembering to roll away from the horse’s hooves. I got the wind knocked out of me, and my bra tore BUT I was alive and NOT stomped on! AND I remembered EVERYTHING.

          • gbrbsb says:

            Exactly what happened with me. It was all so matter of fact, “Oh, so this is a hold up”, “you must be calm and careful, don’t stare, raise your voice”, I even remembered a hairdresser getting shot for not giving over her earings the week before so when I was asked for my gold ring and I said “Please, it has little more than sentimental value”, I was at the same time saying in my head, “That was stupid to try to resist”, and correcting myself to the gunman, “…but if you insist I will try to get it off”. He let me it keep it!

          • cielo62 says:

            Gbrbsb- it’s amazing what the mind can do under duress! But I will admit I don’t remember my surroundings nor even who was there. Just the act of crisis itself.

            Sent from my iPod

          • gbrbsb says:

            I should have added like thrill programs do, ” but DON’T try that at home” because it was incredibly stupid of me!

          • gbrbsb says:

            @Cielo62
            I should have added like tv programs do, “DON’T try this at home”! because it was incredibly incredibly stupid of me!

          • gbrbsb says:

            @Cielo62
            I should have added like the TV programs, “DON’T try this at home”! because it was incredibly incredibly stupid of me!

    • gbrbsb says:

      I must add that I have been long convinced I hear two voices on that tape and that GZ’s is the less audible “help me” or “help” which is in fact the only words GZ and a couple of witnesses has ever claimed he said. Indeed when he did his voice test presumably they would have told him to use “the same words used that night”… and the result “help me, help me, help me”…!

      • groans says:

        What I hear of the killer’s voice is NOT – and I mean, DEFINITELY NOT – saying “help me.”

        I hear an “interrogating” voice, with inflections that go up at the end – as in asking questions, and ending in something like, “…, HUUUUHH?”

        As for his voice exemplar – with his wimpy little yelps – that is completely damning, in my view. And idiotic. I would have thought that he would at least TRY to imitate Trayvon’s shrieks of utter terror, since he KNEW those had occurred and someone might have heard them.

        That he didn’t even TRY, leads me to conclude:

        1. He simply could not imitate Trayvon’s shrieks – whether physically or psychologically or whatever; and,

        2. He hadn’t considered the possibility that part of the verbal had been RECORDED – for a jury and all the world to hear.

      • gbrbsb says:

        @Groans
        I think you misunderstood what I am trying to say so perhaps I did not explain myself properly.

        I am pretty sure I hear two voices as it appears you do too and even BDLR has in court recognised that the same. Trouble is you seem to hear things I don’t and vice versa (I admit it has been a long time since I listened but what I distinguished and heard I heard).

        1) I hear what I am sure are Trayvon’s heart rendering utterances and screams, “I don’t know em”, “I’m begging you”, a long “Help”, and a long “Stop”.

        2) Underneath and in between the loud screams I attribute to Trayvon, I am also sure I hear a calm soft lower volume voice, calling, NOT SCREAMING, “Help me” several times. IMO it is GZ calling, NOT SCREAMING, for someone to help him detain Trayvon just as he claims he did in his interviews and just as he so kindly demonstrated for us in his voice test, and which contrary your opinion, IMO may be a way they can prove the screams were not his because he could not have SCREAMED and called out at the same time so if the “Help mes” are his the SCREAMS cannot be!

        That he didn’t even TRY, leads me to conclude:

        1. He simply could not imitate Trayvon’s shrieks – whether physically or psychologically or whatever; and,

        2. He hadn’t considered the possibility that part of the verbal had been RECORDED – for a jury and all the world to hear.

        Again we differ. IMO GZ didn’t even try to imitate the SCREAMS. Why would he? He was asked to repeat what he uttered that night which he did, so sure of himself because he had called out “Help me” not anything else. This IMO is even more damning than what you are saying because surely he would have at least used a few of the other words heard (“stop”) even if he was unable to imitate the voice!

        IMO also extremely damning is the fact that (iirc) neither he, his dad, brother, MO or FT, has ever once in this time claimed he uttered anything other than “Help mes” therefore the fact he has never given any recognition to there being any other words in the recording other than “help me” brings me to conclude he didn’t utter anything other than “help me”.

        Furthermore, and I tried to convey this in my post above, the fact he used the qualifier “even”, “That doesn’t EVEN sound like me”, IMO indicates there was something else he was unable to recognise and the only thing I can think of is the words. And he didn’t recognise any of the other words, and he surely would have, even if a bit later, if they had come from him, because he didn’t call, NOT SCREAM, anything other than a few “help mes”. IMO in the fog of the scuffle he was intent on detaining Trayvon not listening to what he was screaming, indeed he may not have even been able to distinguish Trayvon’s words considering it has taken many hours of repeat listening to distinguish the words and phrases from the loud noise.

        This is OMO and theory so I could be wrong but which will only be seen at trial when hopefully we will se the work product of the recording.

        • xy11xy says:

          @gbrbsb

          Beautifully organized thinking there, gb!

          My thoughts are sometimes like a houseful of unruly children and noisy pets.

          They will not sit. They will not fetch. They will not clean up their rooms.

          …you’ve given me a lot to think over.

      • groans says:

        @gbrbsb

        You’re right – we’re hearing different things, and I don’t think they’re necessarily conflicting things. But I’ve never before heard anyone here say that they heard the “background” voice saying “Help.”

        I’d bet that you hear better than I do (since I don’t hear much at all in my right ear!).

        So, when you get a chance, could you please listen to that 911 call again, and focus on the very beginning of it – BEFORE the person answering even ( 🙂 ) says her greeting? That’s where I hear the “interrogating” voice.

        I look forward to hearing any new thoughts or overall theories you have about what was going on out there after you’re able to hear the part that I can hear.

        Thanks!

      • xy11xy says:

        Those witnesses. All they say they heard is “help, help” But when I listen, all I hear are bloodcurdling screams.

        Certain witnesses never properly characterize those screams. In fact, they don’t mention them at all. We know they MUST have heard what we heard; yet, all they say they heard is “help, help” They are attuned to one set of cries only, the ones coming from the guy they consider an insider; they guy they consider one of them. The guy they speak glowingly of. The guy they refer to as “the gentleman”. They refer only to his cries for help.

        They avoid mentioning those bloodcurdling screams. The screams that came from the “kid”…the outsider.

        So when they say George is the one crying for help, it is sleight of hand. In other words, there is only ONE cry. It is for help, and it’s coming from George.

        By never mentioning that there was another cry, they hope we will conflate the two, and think there was only one voice out there that night.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        I heard “Get off!” at the very beginning of the call, not “Help me.” I don’t have audio filtering available to me, though.

      • gbrbsb says:

        @Groans

        I look forward to hearing any new thoughts or overall theories you have about what was going on out there after you’re able to hear the part that I can hear.

        Thank you Groans. I will listen to the recording again albeit I don’t know which version. Enhanced can make words clearer, but as our audio expert whonoze noted if not done correctly it can change a word entirely as happened with CNN when their sound engineer “enhanced” the tape to such an extent it ended up as “f***ing cold” instead of the “f***ing punks” which is the consensus by most experts including whonoze. I will say one thing, in the first seconds of the original, I hear quite clearly, “I’m begging you”, which does not coincide with what you hear so I would be grateful you link me the version you listened to, to see if I hear the same as you.

      • gbrbsb says:

        @xy11xy

        Those witnesses. All they say they heard is “help, help” But when I listen, all I hear are bloodcurdling screams.

        Very interesting point. Yes, any who heard “help me” surely MUST have heard the screams so it is strange how they only hear, or only refer to hearing, “help”. Not even Cutcher who describes hearing “whining”. It makes me wonder if our brains find it easier to process words rather than screams and/or loud noise. I’m not sure if it is due to GZ being an “insider” or another psychological reason, e.g. GZ got up and walked away. It’s a long time since I read the witness statements and somewhere online there is a summary of what each said. It may shed some light to compare exactly what each says in respect of any utterances and noise and their geographical location. Certainly the screams and utterances have been immortalised on tape so nobody can deny their existence so it may be they will be asked to clarify on the stand after hearing the tape exactly which part/s they heard!

    • Xena says:

      @xy11xy

      ABC reported that Trayvon called 911 shortly before he died, the call captured GZ’s voice and the FBI was enhancing the recording to determine what GZ was saying. Later, ABC said their reporter mis-spoke and it was actually the call of an ear-witness that captured the voices. IOWs, what the reporter got wrong is that the call was made by Trayvon.

      The FBI has the recording and I believe it has been enhanced, or BDLR would not have brought up in court that there are two voices on that recording.

      If lay people can use sound devices and hear GZ ‘s voice in the background while Trayvon is screaming for his life, we can bet that the equipment used by the FBI has enhanced that recording loud and clear.

      http://blackbutterfly7.wordpress.com/2012/09/19/did-trayvon-martin-call-911/

      • xy11xy says:

        Thanks for the link to your blog, Xena.

        That is good work all the way back in September of last year! I will have to take my time and read carefully through the comments as well.

        I was under the impression that the FBI had closed the book on that tape, saying the voices overlapped too much to tell who was screaming. But, if I’m understanding you right, they are no longer trying to identify who’s screaming, they’re trying to identify words spoken.

        No doubt you’re right that the FBI must have cleaned up the tape enough to be clearly audible.

        I cannot wait for this trial to start!

        • Xena says:

          @xy11xy

          I was under the impression that the FBI had closed the book on that tape, saying the voices overlapped too much to tell who was screaming. But, if I’m understanding you right, they are no longer trying to identify who’s screaming, they’re trying to identify words spoken.

          The FBI has no need to prove who was screaming — just that GZ was talking, using a dominating voice and profanity directed at another person. That eliminates the possibility that GZ could be screaming in another voice at the same time he was talking.

          IOWs, the work of the FBI says, Oh, we don’t know who was screaming, but the recording provides evidence that it wasn’t the killer because he was talking at the same time that the screaming takes place.

  34. xy11xy says:

    The defendant can be heard cursing Trayvon in the background of a 911 call as Trayvon shouts “No.” That is followed by the death shriek that ends with the gunshot, precisely.

    What do you mean “cursing”, Professor? I couldn’t make out words on the 911….

    Do you have a posting about words heard?

    • Someone (I think it may have been racerodig) enhanced a recording of the call turning down the volume on certain frequencies and raising it on others. I heard it when I listened with headphones. I could hear two different voices.

      BDLR also said in open court that there are two voices on the recording. He didn’t provide details and MOM dared not ask.

      • racerrodig says:

        That would be I and I have a friend who is working on trying to get it to a point as to be unassailable as to it’s clarity. Them LLMPapa gets a copy if we can isolate it. Then…..well, we all see the handwriting on the wall if that happens.

        BDLR heard 2 voices (other than the screaming)
        The Feds heard 2 other voices.
        You may have heard 2 other voices
        There are enhanced versions with 2 other voices
        I hear 2 other voices
        My sound tech hears 2 other voices.

        I’d say, there are 2 other voices, we just need a real good clarified copy of the 2nd one.

        III=> Tick Tock <=III ….it's only a matter of time.

        • xy11xy says:

          @racerrodig

          Am I understanding you right? There are 2 voices, plus the screaming? So 3 people heard?

          • racerrodig says:

            Yes….many hear faintly….”..hold ’em down” just before the shot When I used my 17 band stereo EQ from my PA system, a studio headphone amp, studio headphones made by SennHeiser, real good stuff, I hear “…kill ’em…..now….(gun shot)” It is so faint I have all frequencies below 1500 Hz and above 2500 Hz removed completely . Sometimes what we hear is not what we think and what we don’t hear is there. At this point we are trying to get the sound transferred from the enhanced call to a CD so we can isolate it and clarify. The problem is that it won’t reproduce on any other media. My tech believes it may not be what we thing, just a mix of “white noise’ that sounds like “kill ’em…now” So I can’t go on record as saying “This is what……” as factual.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @racer, sounds like there might be other’s arrested in this case. I believe there are friends and neighbors in that complex who was very much involved in this murder. the chickens are getting ready to come home to roost in this case. Mr. MMA was not IMO afraid of Fogen, I believe he was being threatened by Taaffe and or Osterman. Stupid is not the only one involved here, even though he was the *IDIOT* holding a child at gunpoint and the one who pulled the trigger.

        • racerrodig says:

          I believe you have it nailed and time is running out. I think we may find out that Fogen was telling people there “…leave everything to me, f the cops, I know what to do about all this crime”

  35. xy11xy says:

    The world according to CNN:

    There are no such things as facts; there are only opinions. All opinions carry equal weigh, however.

    All human value lies in debate; that is, the exercise of disagreement.

    After the exercise of disagreement, well all slap each other on the back and hit the showers!

    All events are exactly equal; don’t listen to those know-it-all physicists!

    This is a universe of CNN’s own making where CNN alone survives.

    There is no oxygen in this universe. In this universe, people do not survive.

    That is why CNN’s ratings fall. The people don’t stop watching…they DIE!

  36. xy11xy says:

    Ya mean ta tell me….that was the WORST they could find out of 400?!

    400 in ten months!?

    That’s average 40 a month…about 10 a week…about 1 a day?!

    And they’re not bein’ polite to the child killer?!

    Oh…oh and get this… that was “UNRESTRICTED” access to e-mails that O’Mara gave them.

    And….wait for it….

    The supportive ones only blamed the media and gave moral support… HA!

    The supportive ones didn’t say how Trayvon’s friend is a prostitute of anything like that…nooooo..

    I think this is a ruse by CNN to outrage the public and get us all to go over there and comment, which increases their traffic and artificially inflates there relevance for advertisers and such…

    But, I’m cynical.

    • Xena says:

      It’s all a plot by O’Mara to request the court, AGAIN, to grant a continuance and another motion to alter terms of bond. I mean, if CNN says there are death threats, then who is Judge Nelson to deny a motion to remove GZ’s GPS so he can disguise himself and go wherever he wants until he feels like going to trial?

      • Jun says:

        But to be fair, there was no threat directly from witnesses or prosecution so, the witnesses and the state are allowed to know where he lives and he has to give out his hideout addresses LOL

        That was the argument Omara used, right?

        There was no direct threats from the defense or the defendant, therefore he should get the addresses, right?

        • Xena says:

          @Jun

          There was no direct threats from the defense or the defendant, therefore he should get the addresses, right?

          HA!! O’Mara’s reason was so idiotic that I laughed when he argued it in court. Investigate? Does he want to go through Sybrina’s garbage? Follow Tracy to a Mason’s meeting to learn the secret hand signs? Find out who does DeeDee’s hair?

      • ladystclaire says:

        Like some others have said, if he so terrified for his life, the way he made Trayvon feel, then they can lock his fat ass back up in jail. he won’t have to worry about paying for security and, he will be safe. but then, I don’t give a crap about his safety. what about Trayvon’s safety from this fool? he also needs to understand, that when you do what he did, you p\open yourself up to all kinds of threats. I just see it as him getting what he deserves and, it’s just a tip of the iceberg.

        • Xena says:

          @ladystclaire

          I just see it as him getting what he deserves and, it’s just a tip of the iceberg.

          As my mom used to say, “He’s getting it for old and new.” Lots of reaping in store for GZ.

      • Jun says:

        LOL I thought the same when Omara was pleading to skinheads (which is a problem now because Fogenhats is now claiming not to be white)

        He claimed Fogenhats should be allowed to stall because he got so hefty and it is a result from PTSD because of trial

        • Xena says:

          @Jun

          He claimed Fogenhats should be allowed to stall because he got so hefty and it is a result from PTSD because of trial

          If awaiting trial is GZ’s reason for gaining weight, then I say let’s start trial next week. It would be better for his health.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Good luck with that, MOM. Judge Nelson will just keep hitting that big red deny button.

      • xy11xy says:

        @Xena

        So they want more time and for George to be free…

        Is this about money again? Based on the heavy evidence against him, George is clearly a flight risk. Why would his defense want to facilitate that?

        Someone said Judge Nelson doesn’t have a TV.

        Somebody buy that lady a TV!

        • Xena says:

          @xy11xy

          Is this about money again? Based on the heavy evidence against him, George is clearly a flight risk. Why would his defense want to facilitate that?

          Chances are that O’Mara doesn’t have a clue that GZ wants to flee, anymore than he had a clue that GZ had over $100k in the bank at his first bond hearing along with a hidden passport.

          Someone said Judge Nelson doesn’t have a TV.

          Somebody buy that lady a TV!

          Nah. She needs to remain impartial and also so when she does see material presented by BDLR, we get to see that concerned look on her face and hear her say “deny” to the defense. 🙂

        • racerrodig says:

          “…So they want more time and for George to be free…”

          Okay…..but sing this is prison there FogenPholle

          I just wanna be free
          I just wanna be free

          I wanna be free from all the hurt
          I wanna be free from all the pain
          I wanna to end these lonely hours
          I wanna to end these lonely days

          I just wanna be free
          I just wanna be free

          I just wanna be free
          I just wanna be free
          I just wanna be free
          I just wanna be free
          I just wanna be free

  37. colin black says:

    Something I would love to see…

    Re The jodiairyass trial when Martinez told her to stand up an recreate the pose Travis Alexander had crouched into as he lunged at her.

    B D L R.

    Right then I want you to step down from the stand an recreate in front of the Jury.
    What your position was .
    Put the holster on take the gun its not loaded I hope.

    Thats right now lie on your back like you were that night an.
    Excuse the court Mr Zimmerman Im asking you to recreate the circumstances of that night.
    Were you wearing your underpants over your trousers that night an whats the cape for?

  38. gbrbsb says:

    Errata, should have read:

    …Grenada, and still be re-elected a year later thanks to a forgiving press, while in an informal interview the First Lady has a silly slip up for which she gets dragged over the coals, it’s clear the press has never had it’s priorities right!

  39. colin black says:

    gbrbsb.

    An Peirs Morgan gleefull writes of the fun an ease had hacking celeb phones in his autobiography .
    How he even won some journo award peice of tatt for a story he done in his office.
    Simmply hacking voice males he even showed Jermeny Clarkeson News Night guy how easy it was to do.
    After he had been booted from every newspaer in the UK mind.
    Its hysterical how he landed that job an the Americans fawn all over the sleezemaster.
    Its akin to us inviteing Jerry Springer over to host Question Time.

    • xy11xy says:

      Piers mostly uses his powers for evil I see….

    • gbrbsb says:

      Agree in part Colin, but sorry, given the choice I prefer Jerry Springer. He at least can show wit, thought and intelligence, while Piers is just a pompous p***k!

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I sort of find PIers likeable even though he made a mess in the UK. It is strange that he managed to pick up such a good job after all he did. Hopefully he learned his lessons and mended his ways. I do like him adding his voice to the US gun law debate. By doing that I think he might be cleaning up his karma a little bit.

  40. colin black says:

    SearchingMind says:

    March 1, 2013 at 1:37 pm

    @ Tzar, Kelly Payne

    Kllpyn raised excellent questions. Unfortunately many journalist are much less informed than the very public they are informing. Commenters on this and other blogs have superior knowledge of the case compared to anyone working for CNN (as far as the murder of Trayvon is concerned).

    I do not think that Kuo/CNN is acting out of malice and/or hidden agenda and/or racism. I think their bad journalism is the result of a combination of three factors:

    (a). journalistic incompetence

    (b) There is no PR-firm working to promote Trayvon’s side of the case on major national/cable networks; there is no PR-firm/no one lobbying major national/cable networks and individual journalists to get them to present the case based on forensic evidence made public so far and question GZ’s narrative; the PR-approach so far has been too macro and holistic – not targeted at specific claims of O’Mara/GZ with the goal of destroying them with specific evidence/information. This must change.

    (c) the PR-firm hired by O’Mara is targeting individual journalists and getting them to present the narrative that is most favorable to GZ: GZ was viciously attacked and beating mercilessly by Trayvon; GZ has wounds and blood all over his head to prove it; GZ feared for his life and shot Trayvon; Trayvon has no wounds but the gunshot wound; GZ is now being vilified for defending himself; no American should suffer this kind of fate. The PR-approach so far has been too micro and narrow, targeting individual journalists with specific piece of “evidence” and worst interpretation thereof
    @.You are correct so many of thease tv journos are just hired talking heads.
    Hired on looks race per demmographics .
    And there ability to read the tele prompter left to there own devises they fail.

    A Case in point a British Olympic Hero double gold medalist ran in the N Orlean half marathon i i r c .
    He won an she interveiwed him thinking he was some plucky amature whom just got up an went for it.
    It was actaully very funny see if I can find a link.
    But it illistrates the depth of some talkinheads on tv is eveaporateing puddle deep on a hot day.

  41. gbrbsb says:

    Does anything said or done by the press surprise anybody anymore? We just had the Levison enquiry and from what came out the press must be pretty much capable of anything if they can hack the mobile of the missing teen, Millie Dowler, before she was found murdered misleading her parents to believing she was still alive because they were deleting messages so more could be left. Ughh!!!

    And I just found this rant from Fox News of the First Lady who, not surprisingly with so many trigger happy kiddie and teen shooters in the US of late, made the oh so enormous mistake in respect of what weapons and other details were relevant to one particular killing, a mistake ABC showed an oh so enormous bias by editing it out! WTF!!! In my books if during an official press conference in 1983 the Commander in Chief, Ronald Reagan, can point to Granada (Spain), on a map to show where the US had invaded, i.e. Grenada, and still be re-elected a year later, while in an informal interview the First Lady has a silly slip up, it´s clear the press has never had it’s priorities right!

  42. colin black says:

    Tzar says:

    March 1, 2013 at 11:56 am

    I guess that the point is to convince the elected judge that people support Zimmerman.

    otherwise I have no idea what they are doing

    Reply

    How can that be acomplished ?
    I beleive the Judge as an honest woman an when she took over the reins.

    She said that she NEVER watches tv an knew zilch about this case.
    She even sorta asked forgiveness in advance till she got up to speed with the details.

    Something about her demeanour an attatude convinced me she was being truthfull.
    An I was cynical in the womb.

    So if her attatude an lifestlye before takeing on the case was non interest tv media wise,
    It would certainly remain that way after she took the case.

    Nothing but the facts an evidence will have any bearing on her attatude re this case. i m o.
    I

  43. colin black says:

    Frederick Leatherman says:

    February 28, 2013 at 9:44 pm

    I don’t see anything in your post that would have hijacked it into moderation.

    Did you change your email or IP address? Maybe using a different computer?

    That would do it, if it was a new address or email.

    Reply

    No worries just me over re acting.
    It actually started the day before the anniversery.
    On the Judge was right Article.
    My posts would apear then go into moderation an then dissapeard 4 off them.
    Although
    This is convaluted
    I was watching the arias trial.
    Opened a window an made a comment.
    It went on your blog by misstake.
    So later I noticed it was in moderation.
    So I wrote an said its a mistake dont bother with it just delete it.
    But that also went into mod.
    I then wrote two on point post about Trayvon.

    Also moderated an later all 4 deleted 2 off topic two on.
    As it was then Trayvons aniversery I never said anything to belittle his memory with my trivia.

    Next day when I started posting again it started happening again same thing.
    So I assumed Id pissed someone of an being blocked or banned.

    Sorry for miss under standing.

    PS Xena re the Tempest the Island is the Forbidden Planet.
    Im sure you will work out the other mysterios yourself

    • I saw your request asking me to delete something. I deleted whatever I thought you asked me to delete, plus the request.

      Sorry, I misunderstood.

      Anyway, glad you’re back.

      Fred

    • Xena says:

      @Colin

      PS Xena re the Tempest the Island is the Forbidden Planet.
      Im sure you will work out the other mysterios yourself

      Thank you. I do like literature and film with symbolism.

  44. Bahama Mama says:

    O’Mara just keeps flapping his lips…trying to gain pity for his client, what foolishness.
    Maybe he should get to work on finding some type of evidence to help his client out…LMAO…
    Too bad he CAN’T find anything, he has to resort to pity!

  45. ay2z says:

    Obviously we know why the defense and the family are courting the lawmakers or those entiities with the power to influence lawmakers.

    • ay2z says:

      Theory about fogen as police informant. WE know fogen inserted himeslf as a self-proclaimed police helper/informant and when it suited, a police critic.

      What was Bill Lee doing at the crime scene? Who called him and why?

    • ay2z says:

      Yes, Bill Lee Chief, is listed on the discovery ‘contamination log’.

      • looneydoone says:

        Bill Lee was signed in at 8:40 PM
        It’s highly unusual for the Chief to make an appearance at the scene of a homicide not involving one of their officers.

        • xy11xy says:

          …and at 8:40… so about 90 minutes after Trayvon was shot…So, I can see him being called at home, and driving over…

          Wow. That’s a whole lot of personal attention.

          Do you think it’s Osterman who called him?

      • looneydoone says:

        xy11xy
        Do I think osterman contacted billy lee ? Yes. And I want to know who it was that contacted off-duty FL State Atty wolfinger (at home ?) to thwart any attempt at getting an arrest warrant charging gz that night.
        Who went to the top dog wolfinger ? and why did wolfinger intervene? what was wolfinger’s interest in preventing the arrest of gz ?

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I can only think of one or two people who would call Wolfinger. Papa Z or Bill Lee.

    • PYorck says:

      I am still curious what exactly got Lee fired. Obviously the SPD didn’t handle the case well, but is that really the whole story?

      At the time they could claim with a reasonably straight face that the investigation was still ongoing and that they erred infavor of the suspect until they did recommend charges after all.

      I wonder if Lee still has some skeleton in his closet or if he had a reason to put his career on the line.

      • Nefertari05 says:

        Just my opinion, but a reasonably straight face does not include ignoring/disregarding/not backing your lead detective’s recommendation and capias request the same night. Especially in light of the first two drafts that show the original requested charge was murder 2 and he drafted it twice, before going down to manslaughter. Then there’s the “squeaky clean” quote. IMHO (and apparently Serino’s, as well as Ken Padowicz – 16 yrs Broward County homicide prosecutor and adjunct law professor, and Kendall Coffey, former US Atty for the Southern District of FL, now criminal defense atty) there was probable cause right from the beginning, let alone after the DNA result on the gun came back on March 8(disputing at least one of fogen’s earliest versions about the gun), two weeks before he stepped down.

        If you’re not going to trust your lead detective’s recommedations on a case, in which he is privy to all the available evidence to that date, including present sense impressions gained during 2 audio interrogations, and a physical reenactment, all of which he was personally present for and conducted – at the very least, your command should be called into question for allowing him to be assigned to the case, in the first place.

        This is just a differing personal opinion and not in anyway intended to be an indictment of your reasonably straight face statement. I think it’s a valid question, I just respectfully don’t agree with the conclusion.

      • I believe moments after the killing, the attempted cover up was born- and i’m not even starting w/gz’s first lie when he said to the neighbor ” the guy was killing me so I had to shoot him!” which sounds so fake and awkward and forced it shoulda been the first clue to any real investigator.

        But, if not, then at least, we can reasonably conclude the conspiracy began the when wolfinger and billy lee stepped foot on the scene. why would they both show up if an arrest wasn’t happening? why would the Sanford police chief AND the prosecutor meet at a scene unless there was an arrest for a serious crime?

        so whether it’s true that wolfinger & papaZ are pals,

        * we know osterman and billy lee are.
        * so we have oysterman on scene w/I minutes. minutes!
        * there is apparently time and opportunity for the *witness* to take pics, even though tim smith shows up as the shot rings out!and
        * gz is able to make phone calls- at least one, because we can see it as he’s sitting on something and having his pic taken by witness.
        * who else could he be calling? oysterman and shellie are there.

        this scene was not handled as a crime scene, gz was not handled as a suspected killer. he was treated with more deference and consideration than even a fellow police would be!

  46. ay2z says:

    SYG in 2005, was a top priority. Who makes your laws? Who becomes the justice system, the people? Or the media? Or the powers that be behind the lawmakers?

    6 people?

    Another clip for revisiting

    • Rachael says:

      Excellent excellent clip!!!

    • xy11xy says:

      The NRA is a full-service gun pusher who anticipates your future needs. They know that gun owners will not be satisfied with just carrying guns. Sooner or later they’ll want to actually shoot at somebody. They’re not doing all that target practice for nothing!

      This is a way to shoot and kill without penalty.

      If George and O’Mara need money, they shouldn’t sue NBC, they should sue the NRA!

    • Fuggen Bush crime family!

    • xy11xy says:

      really, he had me at “bonehead”…

      But the red flag here for me is that “premeditated” can be formulated in a minute.

      In my gut, I believe George searched Trayvon..or somehow found out he only had his phone, Skittles and soda pop on him… In my heart, I believe he shot Trayvon to silence him after realizing how much trouble he was in.

      Kill/silence the boy, then figure it out later…. With Trayvon dead there was no one to dispute his version of events. George thinks he’ll make it up as he goes along… and resolve any problems that arise.

      This was really good. Thanks for posting.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Finally … someone at least somewhat familiar with the case, the “hellhole” local politics, and the background on how Florida’s SYG came about via NRA money to Jeb … who also is willing to go on air to say so. Obviously this was from way back when, but he had much of it pegged.

      • Wow, he was almost right! he just didn’t count on 2.5 million people protesting, b/c it’s the first time in history we the people demanded this pos weirdo to be brought to justice!

        and I can’t wait for june 10th. just can’t wait. even though i’ll be a year older! i’d rather be older and see justice, then whatever…forgot what I was sayin!LOL
        thanks for posting!! hopefully he can get back involved and speak UP for Trayvon!

    • Cercando Luce says:

      Mr. Papantonio had me with “The Alpha-male police officer on the scene created the story… all the other police officers feel they’re compelled to follow it,” because that starts to explain how on earth the SPD could do such a poor job on an obvious murder.

  47. ay2z says:

    Who is the ‘justice system’ ?

    This is an old clip, but worth a review. The first photo of Trayvon in this clip, was taken August 201, 6 months before Trayvon turned 17 years old.

    Papatonio speaks out about the evidence available at that time, the important 911 call.

    They ask the question– dispatcher’s comment, what legal weight?

  48. Rachael says:

    I’m posting this because someone else posted it at the end of the last entry, saying something about the Martins’ attorney or something, but I couldn’t get past any of that for the dog whistling that O’Mara was doing. Am I the only one hearing it? Am I just too sensitive or do I hear the crap coming out of his head that I think I am?

    http://thegrio.com/2013/02/28/what-trayvon-martin-looked-like/#50972028

    • elcymoo says:

      Rachael says:
      March 1, 2013 at 1:28 pm
      I’m posting this because someone else posted it at the end of the last entry, saying something about the Martins’ attorney or something, but I couldn’t get past any of that for the dog whistling that O’Mara was doing. Am I the only one hearing it? Am I just too sensitive or do I hear the crap coming out of his head that I think I am?

      http://thegrio.com/2013/02/28/what-trayvon-martin-looked-like/#50972028

      Reply

      Mark O’Mara is such a liar. He begins by claiming that he’s not trying to demonize TM, and then proceeds to try to demonize him.

      Under FL law, he couldn’t introduce any of TM’s past conduct, because the teenager had no known record of violent behavior. (In fact, the SPD said early on in the investigation that he had no juvenile record, not that it was ‘sealed’, as many of Zimmerman’s supporters have claimed.)O’Mara’s client did, on the other hand, and it wasn’t limited to just the case in which he assaulted a police officer and had the charges lowered after he agreed to complete an anger management course.

      If O’Mara utters one peep during trial about TM’s 3 (not 2) school suspensions – once for tardiness, once for writing on his locer with a marker, and once for possession of an empty baggie which contained what was thought to be traces of pot (but NOT for the possession of the jewelry, which the police were unable to prove stolen), he opns the door for the prosecution to introduce testimony about his client’s several instances of violent or aggressive behavior.

  49. Only 400 ? That doesn’t seem like many.

    GZ’s new disguise

    • elcymoo says:

      @bonniespapermache: I thought 400 seemed like a low number, too, given how often O’Mara and RZ Jr. have spoken of ‘death threats and hate mail’. Neither of the examples cited is a death threat, although they clearly wish for Z’s death.

      Remember when BdlR asked Shellie if she’d received death threats, and she said no, but she’d received hate mail? She agreed to turn the copies she’d saved over to the prosecution or the SPD, I don’t remember which, right now. Has anyone ever seen any indication that Z has done likewise?

      • Xena says:

        Remember when BdlR asked Shellie if she’d received death threats, and she said no, but she’d received hate mail?

        Where the hell was the hate mail sent to? No one knew where they were other than the Ostermans and maybe Junior, Mama and Papa Z.

        • racerrodig says:

          Okay, I’ll confess…………I had nothing to do with it…..Like I’m sure somebody sent an e-mail, ya know, that can be traced to FogenPhoole through O’ Mara….

          Like all things Fogen……….Proof Please !!

      • Jun says:

        I saw no death threats

        They just called him a POS and they hope karma hits him in prison

        I say until it is thoroughly investigated, we should not jump to conclusions

        for all we know, it is more lies and plotting by the defense, as has been shown to be the case since this murder took place

        I’d laugh if the feds found out Fogenhats sent threats to himself to try and bolster new claims LOL

        The only real point of contact for Fogenhats was his website and clearly if he felt his life was in so much danger, he would take down his website, not keep it up LOL

        In all reality, if someone wanted to get at Fogenhats, it would not be impossible to do so, since he is so public and could be found if anyone put the effort to do so but only the state and the feds are interested so LOL

        If anything, it sounds like it will back fire Omara’s plot to get witness addresses and personal info

        • racerrodig says:

          I’d be shocked if there are any e-mails at all. If someone wanted to get him, just stake out O’ Mara’s office. Sooner or later he’ll wander in, or O’ Mara will head out to meet him “in that (shhhhh) secret place”

          • Xena says:

            @racerrodig. (Speaking in code) When a person goes to work at the same place everyday, anyone wanting to find out where they work can. Jodi Arias could find GZ in about 3 days. 🙂

          • racerrodig says:

            Off the ecordday, I aveha rienday that riveseday by his officeday mostalday not exactlyday on ahtha street persay, osecladay everhowday.

          • Xena says:

            @racerrodig. Uh — okay. LOL!!!

            Tabloid photographers probably already know where GZ lives. They’re just waiting before publishing the photos of GZ in ShelLIE’s clothes.

          • racerrodig says:

            Yep, if someone wanted to, it would be no problem. I have a friend who lives about 25 miles from there and goes within spitting distance on a regular basis and I’m sure someone from Star is parked right up the street……probably about 20 yards from that van full of Feds and all that electronic equipment.

          • Xena says:

            @racerrodig

            I’m sure someone from Star is parked right up the street……probably about 20 yards from that van full of Feds and all that electronic equipment.

            They also use pickup trucks with carriers in the truck bed.

            Something funny — a conspiracy theorist I met years ago said he would never have cable or satellite tv. His reason was because the government can use them to see into your home. I told him if they did that to my home, they would get bored watching me dozing off in front of the television.

          • racerrodig says:

            I watch The Military Channel….my inside joke is “..hey lets see what “Der Feuhrer is up to today” and the Legal / Court channels. A little AMC once in awhile.

          • Are you speaking in tongues?

            Next, you’ll be playin’ with snakes.

          • racerrodig says:

            Snakes…..I hate snakes. No, it’s I have a friend who lives no to far from there and drives within spitting distance,.

      • Jun says:

        LOL

        BDLR made the best argument in that if they were in so much danger, they would not be so public all the time

        And yes someone could easily stake out Omara’s office if that was the case or get IP address info from the website LOL

        Also another factor is anyone wanting to do Fogenhats in for real is not going to send him death threats, they would pretend to be his friend, and then set him up LOL

        • racerrodig says:

          In all honesty I don’t think anyone on the planet would risk their freedom, not to mention a death penalty, over the likes of him. Everyone I know wants to see a fair trail and a fairly long prison sentence.

      • Jun says:

        Yeah I dont think so either. I am just speaking and saying that if a person were to want to serious get Fogenhats, they could. I am not saying anyone is, just saying if someone was serious, they would be playing Fogenhats to get him.

    • racerrodig says:

      That was 4 months ago before he gained “all that weight”

      • Jun says:

        When he was playing Officer Johnson in the movie in his head, he was over 200 pounds

        When he was arrested, he was 185 I think

        Trial approaches and he becomes 400 pounds

        The man changes weight classes and racial classifications like people change clothes LOL

        • racerrodig says:

          Yes he dose…..He may claim to be any race or combination of races but he’ll never escape that ” racist shit for brains” standing with me.

  50. I’m not even finished reading and stopping to say…I “like” it! ONLY in America would there be a vast conspiracy to humanize this lying cousin molesting murderer and attempts to gain pity for a child murderer of a black boy…ONLY in America! Although, Adam Lanza is not here, can you IMAGINE any MSM source treating him the way gz is treated? Oh, there are no conversations about innocent until proven guilty around Lanza, oh no! There is an under tone to medicalize his behavior…..oh he was crazy! He needed mental health care where as even in Trayvon’s death, there is an attempt to pathologize him the victim! And this is more common than we care to draw parallels to! Boys being boys when they sexually brutalize women has the same source as Trayvon was a thug! And yet, where is the coalition building around blaming the victim that effects boys, girls and women and men either because of race or gender/sexual orientation (homo and trans – phobia) and in too many cases both because of race AND gender.

    I’m about sick of it!

  51. acemayo says:

    Zimmerman started to follow him because he thought he looked suspicious. Despite a police dispatcher telling him “you don’t have to do that,” Zimmerman got out of his truck to pursue Martin.
    Zimmerman claims to have mistaken Martin, who was 17, for a burglar and to have shot him in self defense after a confrontation on Feb. 26, 2012.

    so if any looks likes TM shoot him

    “Who Zimmerman saw [on the night of the shooting] was a figment of his imagination,” Jackson says. “And that’s where Mark is being disingenuous, because Zimmerman did not know who Trayvon was. He didn’t know his school record. … All he saw, was a young, black male in a hoodie, walking ‘suspiciously,’ to Zimmerman. So what made him suspicious? If Mark is going to address that problem – and I agree, he should defend his client – and I agree that he should show why Zimmerman thought that Trayvon was suspicious. But the honest thing to do is to say why did Zimmerman think that Trayvon was suspicious? He didn’t know anything about him, so the only reason he thought he was suspicious is because he was a young, black teenage male wearing a hoodie, walking in a neighborhood that he didn’t think he belonged.”

    remember everyone out of GZ mouth 17 times more or less to GZ TM was a suspect(burglar)
    he looks likes he’s up to no good a black male standing when GZ say that TM was not moving
    Remember in this gated place george chase a black male(kid) to his black male(father) home
    who live there. Also when george did his reacted of what happen that night a blackwoman and black girl was seem behind him in his video. And that night he shot TM there an other black male(kid) walking his dog on an rainy dark night who had an black woman(mom) who lives
    in this gated place so why in the hell was it out of place for an black male to be standing or
    walking in that gated place Oh I forgot GZ knew all the black people who lives there

    • Trained Observer says:

      While exploring “Journalism as Bullshit 101” as presented by Fox and CNN, and as it pertains to Trayvon’s murder, I’m here to express disgust for variations on the lazy “No one knows what happened that night.”

      Fogen knows. Trayvon knew, likely part of why he was silenced. And thanks to painstaking forensics, combined with the luck of a girlfriend on the other end of cell conversation, Corey and BDLR for the most part know. At trial, the rest of the world will soon know, as will — most importantly — the jury.

      Tick-Tock goes the clock.

  52. FactsFirst says:

    CNN = YELLOW JOURNALIISM at its FINEST

    Thanks for telling it like it T – I is, Professor…

  53. Tzar says:

    So maybe it’s time we start a letter campaign or petition to highlight the poor journalism and the crushing amount of evidence against the defense?

    Any ideas?

  54. Two sides to a story says:

    I love your no-nonsense stance, Prof.

    Ignore the noise . . . Justice is on its way for you, Trayvon!

    • SearchingMind says:

      Excellent idea, Tzar. These are just preliminary ideas:

      Step 1: Expose the bad journalist (link and spread around his/her report);

      Step 2: Make known his/her contact information, i.e. e-mail address;

      Step 3: Write a well thought through rebuttal and e-mail it to him/her (forget not to also remind him/her of the duties of the media as “the fourth branch of government” and the conscience of the society);

      Step 4: Ask others to follow suit and email their rebuttals to the specific journalist involved (remind everyone to stay away from his/her keyboard when he/she is angry!);

      Step 5: Email a complaint to the editors and CEO of the Cooperation that particular journalist is working for.

      • Tzar says:

        I agree, we may want to collaborate our efforts with dothprotesttoomuch

      • lurker says:

        I think that one issue is that journalists have drilled into them the impact of the Cleveland Plain Dealer on the Sam Shepherd murder case. This leads to not only the attachment of the word alleged to any accused criminal not yet convicted, but also draws a line at presenting what might be considered to be a particular “side” prior to conviction.

        Couple that with a certain lack of knowledge about forensics (or most things that reporters must report on)–and the turbulence in the news industry (print going away and cable growing)–and the field is not the best for nurturing knowlegeable reporters right now.

      • well I wanna help. I can’t write but I can copy!
        I’m sick to death with the media!
        Today I saw this guy on HLN, he’s a Harvard lawyer & pro wrestler! I thought OMG he’d make the perfect advocate for Trayvon in media, especially on InSession and HLN.
        So I tweet him and ask him if he’d *Please* consider commenting about gz’s claims of the head banging and etc.
        apparently it wasn’t just my bright idea, cause he tweeted back that Trayvon would be his next trial! Let’s make him feel welcome!

        David Otunga

    • pat deadder says:

      to Two sides God I hope so.

  55. kllypyn says:

    Did miss they the memo that trayvon was unarmed? The evidence is available for all to see did they not look it? Are they not aware of his farfetched stories? Why are they coddling this guy? Do they really believe those terrifying screams cane from zimmerman? they’ve teenagers themselves.What if the same thing happened to them? Would they be doing this if trayvon was a white kid? TRAYVON WAS LITERALLY BEGGING FOR HIS LIFE WHEN HE WAS KILLED. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE?

    • Rachael says:

      Maybe that’s where the defense money is going.

    • SearchingMind says:

      @ Tzar, Kelly Payne

      Kllpyn raised excellent questions. Unfortunately many journalist are much less informed than the very public they are informing. Commenters on this and other blogs have superior knowledge of the case compared to anyone working for CNN (as far as the murder of Trayvon is concerned).

      I do not think that Kuo/CNN is acting out of malice and/or hidden agenda and/or racism. I think their bad journalism is the result of a combination of three factors:

      (a). journalistic incompetence

      (b) There is no PR-firm working to promote Trayvon’s side of the case on major national/cable networks; there is no PR-firm/no one lobbying major national/cable networks and individual journalists to get them to present the case based on forensic evidence made public so far and question GZ’s narrative; the PR-approach so far has been too macro and holistic – not targeted at specific claims of O’Mara/GZ with the goal of destroying them with specific evidence/information. This must change.

      (c) the PR-firm hired by O’Mara is targeting individual journalists and getting them to present the narrative that is most favorable to GZ: GZ was viciously attacked and beating mercilessly by Trayvon; GZ has wounds and blood all over his head to prove it; GZ feared for his life and shot Trayvon; Trayvon has no wounds but the gunshot wound; GZ is now being vilified for defending himself; no American should suffer this kind of fate. The PR-approach so far has been too micro and narrow, targeting individual journalists with specific piece of “evidence” and worst interpretation thereof. This must be fought.

  56. CherokeeNative says:

    Is there not ONE reputable reporter out there that is willing to print the truth? So very frustrating.

    • parrot says:

      It takes intelligence, hard work and iron resolve to be a good investigative journalist. That is why no one covers this case like the professor.

      • lurker says:

        I have found that to be true in many, many cases. Your typical journalist knows far less than we would want them to know about a lot of things: statistics, the law, and specialized areas (like health care or education) that they are called upon to report on. One thing that I have been enjoying about MSNBC is the outright geekiness of it at times. Rachel Maddow–who assuredly has a liberal bias–is particularly good at tracing issues back to historical roots. Ezra Klein when he is on can go really indepth on economics and statistics. Whether anyone agrees with their politics or not, I believe that they are providing a model for how very complex issues can be presented to a public who may have just walked in the door on any topic.

        I have a lot of hope that they will set the bar for the Edward R. Murrows, Dan Rathers and Walter Cronkites to come.

    • parrot says:

      @lurker

      Because I respect Rachel Maddow’s work, I sent an email suggesting that she take a look at Frederick Leatherman’s law blog and see for herself why she should consult this serious man in matters relating to this case.
      No response, of course. It is hard to get the attention of someone like her.

    • pat deadder says:

      To Cherokee my e mail to cnn; Isn’t there one reporter there that is unafraid to bring the facts of the case to the public.e.g.Trayvon Martin had none of gz dna on his his hands or sleeves of his two garments.How did that happen with the blood on gz nose supposedly from an attack from the victim.There was that so hard.I know it might cause an hour of work.But he give it a try.

  57. SearchingMind says:

    Awesome post, Professor. Thanks.

    Guy, pls. make sure this post gets to Wolf Blitzer, Erin Benet and the-powers-that-be of CNN. It’s time to let them know that the world is watching and that they cannot get away with ugly journalism and spreading falsehood.

  58. Tzar says:

    I guess that the point is to convince the elected judge that people support Zimmerman.

    otherwise I have no idea what they are doing

    • SearchingMind says:

      They are “educating” the public, wise guy! I really think that they who want to see justice done should not take these developementS lightly. All these bad reporting’s are not coincidental or isolated incidents. Someone is making a concerted effort to force a change in how the public views this case. Trayvon’s case has to also be made on CNN, FOX, etc. using the same evidence O’Mara is soooo keen to cite and then misinterpret. If O’Mara continues to go unchallenged spreading lies on national TV, I will not be surprised if public opinion starts turning in GZ’s favor. Never take public opinion for granted.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Various people associated with CTH have been e-mailing print, online, and other media venues according to what I read when I go out and about in my waders and goggles . . . just sayin’. Puff pieces like this may be the response to their pushing.

      • Tzar says:

        I agree 100%, the jury is selected from the public.
        I hope the prosecutor has a bit of politician in her

      • Malisha says:

        Real reporting is a dying skill. Reporters who want to do it are often stifled by their editors who, in turn, are controlled by their financial bosses; this is not about news, it is about money.

        I remember finding this out the hard way in 1988 when I brought a story to a WASHINGTON POST journalist, gave him two bankers’ boxes of the evidence he needed, directed him to 12 out of the 15 interviews he wanted, and he wrote a piece of incomparable fluff. When I called him the day after the article appeared, he said to me: “I thought you would be pleased with my story; it came right down the middle of the road.” I was aghast. There WAS no “middle” on the road to that story, believe me. The journalist was a Jew and he and I both knew that (although it had nothing to do with the story). I said to him, “Gene, if you reported on the Holocaust the way you reported that story yesterday, you’d have written, ‘The Jews and the Germans had a big fight; the Germans won.'” He got so mad at me he hung up and we never spoke again. And I never missed that, either.

        Now, journalists write crap that they congratulate themselves over. That’s about the extent of it. For the rest? Remember that song from Peter, Paul & Mary, “I Dig Rock & Roll Music”?

        “But if I really say it, the radio won’t play it
        Unless I lay it between the lines”

        It’s that principle:

        Though we all know what happened,
        the papers’ fees aren’t fattened
        Unless they furnish whatever sells…

        Most of America really doesn’t want to realize that the SPD is a corrupt organization that is more guilty of real RICO crimes than the Mafia in Chicago. Most of America wants to believe something that is a watered-down, equivocal, he-said-she-said, prime-time-TV crime drama style thing, where really good people are trying to do the right thing and it’s just so complicated, and gee willikers, ain’t it mean to send a guy hate mail just because he tried to do a good deed on a rainy night?

        The good part about this is that the case really is NOT going to be tried in the newspapers and on-line. Judge Nelson really DOES know how to preside over a criminal trial. BDLR really DOES know how to move evidence into court and illustrate his points and when it comes right down to it, there is not much REASONABLE doubt about what Fogen did that night.

        And CNN, Fox and everybody else is just going to HAVE to report the results, although they can editorialize as much as they like.

        Isn’t it interesting that the most violent of the quoted hate-mail never suggested any outsider violence against Fogen? Suggesting to him that he should shoot HIMSELF was the worst I read, and he has a First Amendment right not to follow that suggestion, just as he had a right not to follow Sean’s suggestion, “We don’t need you to do that.”

        • When the jury comes in with a guilty verdict, they will react with surprise, sagely wag their heads, and say, “Whocouldaknown?”

          Those who remind them that they told them what would happen and why it would happen will be dismissed with a casual wave of the hand as unserious rabble unworthy of further consideration or comment.

          They really are airheads, not journalists, and one of the prime reasons why we rid ourselves of our TV.

      • Trained Observer says:

        Malasha, when you said “This is not about news, it is about money. you were ever so correct. A tragedy like Trayvon’s death is a vehicle for money.

      • cielo62 says:

        Once the REAL evidence surfaces, the news media will be ALL about… “BUT BUT BUT” and then spend reams and reams “investigating” and “researching” for the “surprising” guilty verdict!! I think that the fact that over 2 MILLION people signed Trayvon’s petition vs the several hundred or so real signers of the WH petition makes a real difference and is the REALITY!

      • Two sides…….A couple of days ago, the outhousers were indeed talking about flooding the media with their (nonsense) “facts”. I just can’t believe that anyone would really listen to them let alone print the crap that they are spewing. I can’t wait to see what all these news people are going to say when all the evidence comes out at trial.

        • Xena says:

          The news media might take an interest in someone who is an expert or professional in the field in which they want to bring to the media concerning a pending criminal case. They might even interview a witness or allow an author to promote a book.

          To repeat one of Junior’s mantras — the treeslummers were not there.

    • jm says:

      Tzar: I guess that the point is to convince the elected judge that people support Zimmerman.

      I get MOM wants to change public opinion and influence judge and jury, but why is the media putting this stuff out there for the public? Does the media have an agenda?

      Do you think they would allow the prosecution to give their side to the story so there is fair and equal reporting?

      Not sure if the media is doing this with an agenda or if MOM is better at getting his spin/lies/propaganda out there and BDLR/Corey team isn’t even trying.

      • The prosecution is not permitted to make public statements about the case, with the exception of an announcement about what charges have been filed.

        There is nothing they can do, except fight back in court and/or renew the motion for a gag order.

      • The media is lazy and they play follow the leader. Since the Zimmerman Sentinel is the journal of record…GIGO.

      • dbj says:

        @ grey winter sky
        “Two sides…….A couple of days ago, the outhousers were indeed talking about flooding the media with their (nonsense) “facts”. I just can’t believe that anyone would really listen to them let alone print the crap that they are spewing. I can’t wait to see what all these news people are going to say when all the evidence comes out at trial.”

        They’ll be back peddling just as fast as Fox News and the Republicans did after Obama was re-elected…possibly faster.

    • lady2soothe says:

      @ Tzar

      I guess that the point is to convince the elected judge that people support Zimmerman.

      Well in that case….

      “HUFFPOST SUPER USER
      Bella Lee
      738 Fans Unfan

      2 hours ago (10:49 PM)
      Trayvon petition 2,278,312 SIGNATURES

      Zimmerman petition 144 SIGNATURES

      [fixed it for ya]

  59. jm says:

    My question is what drives these media outlets to do this? Are they catering to their viewers/readers?

    • My opinion is that media entities have a difficult time with the frame of black = victim. They sell the black male criminal archetype so to do so would be a complete paradigm shift! They are acting within the same white supremacist system we all do, black faces at the newsdesk notwithstanding.

    • lurker says:

      They have a story that sells and not too much happening right at the moment.

  60. bettykath says:

    CNN is working hard to overtake Fox in the “let’s make it up” “news” category.

    • abbyj says:

      Bettykath, CNN couldn’t take over a puppet show in a garage right now–not with its inept new leader.

      • Malisha says:

        A Puppet Show in a garage! Hey, I have an idea: Let’s have a contest for the best four-minute puppet-show-in-a-garage about the AFTERMATH (in the police station) of the Trayvon Martin murder. People can design puppets to play Fogen, Serino, Singleton, Lee, Wolfinger, Wagner, Tim Smith, and “a police officer that I had called.” LLMPapa, want to go first?

    • lurker says:

      It is indeed a puff piece, designed as the lead-in to yet another Piers Morgan interview. What they missed, that might have provided some actual reader interest is the absolute dearth of letters that might be considered threatening. This, in light of O’Mara’s ongoing insistence that Z. lives in fear for his life, and particularly when considered next to the unpaid security bills and the claims of the security firm that Z and O’Mara insisted on far more than was recommended or required might have made for an interesting show. And could have added to public knowledge without the need to make any unethical statements concerning guilt or innocence.

    • Opercarla says:

      @Malisha..we’re going to use “sock” puppets,right?

  61. The only thing wrong about your article is that its Friday, March 1st. Not Thursday. The rest is 100%

  62. Trained Observer says:

    It’s journalism … really bad bullshit journalism, and we can count on piles more of it as CNN and other print and broadcast entities try to pump up plummeting ratings and readership stats.

    • abbyj says:

      TrainedObserver, I’m not in the least surprised that CNN has stooped to this level of tabloid “journalism.” After all, Jeff Zucker–the great maestro of disasters at NBC–has just taken the helm of CNN. That guy has never found a program OR network he couldn’t burn to the ground. Give the Tonight Show to TWO entertainers? That’s Zucker. Fire Conan? That’s Zucker? Screw up the entire NBC 10 p.m. line-up and put THOUSANDS of writers, actors, and crew out of work? That’s Zucker! He caters to the lowest common denominator in every programming decision, goes against conventional wisdom of all journalistic precepts, and invariably alienates his entire audience into complete abandonment. The Professor has called it for what it is: It IS BULLSHIT journalism, and we all have Zucker to thank for it. Just want to set the history straight. CNN will be a small, unsightly cinder, immolated by the ego of Zucker, in no time at all. We are watching its demise now, in real time. Great job, Zucker!!! Tabloid crap reigns, in your world.

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