Judge Nelson Properly Denied the Defense Motion to Depose Benjamin Crump in Trayvon Martin Case

Monday, February 25, 2013

Good afternoon.

I write today to clear up some confusion exhibited in comments over the weekend regarding the basis for Judge Nelson’s order denying the defendant’s motion to depose Benjamin Crump, the attorney who represents Trayvon Martin’s parents, Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton. As all of you know, he located Witness 8, who is referred to as DD to protect her identity and privacy. She was Trayvon’s girlfriend and was talking to him when the defendant accosted and attacked Trayvon moments before shooting him to death.

Crump recorded a telephonic interview with her from his office in which she reported that Trayvon told her that he was being followed by a “creepy man” in a vehicle as he was walking home. He ran to get away from the creepy man and thought he had succeeded, but the creepy man suddenly appeared on foot and close by.

She heard the following exchange:

Trayvon: “Why are you following me for?”

Old Man: “Why are you here?”

She heard what sounded like a physical struggle.

Trayvon: Get off!

Then she lost the connection.

DD is an important witness for the prosecution because her testimony contradicts the defendant’s claim that Trayvon hunted, confronted and attacked him as he was walking back to his parked vehicle.

The defense clearly has a proper basis to depose DD and no doubt will eventually do so, since the prosecution has listed her as a Class A witness (major witness) on their witness list. The defense has delayed taking her deposition claiming that it must obtain other unspecified information prior to the deposition. For example, the defense seeks to know her address prior to the deposition.

Judge Nelson denied that request for the second time at the hearing on Friday reiterating that they can ask her that question at her deposition.

To understand why the Court denied that request, one need look no farther than the outrageous and unlawful harassment and doxing inflicted by the defendant’s supporters on the defendant’s cousin, who accused him of molesting her over an 8-year period when they were children, and two innocent girls named Dee Dee in Miami, whom they erroneously believed to have been Trayvon’s girlfriend.

The defense also seeks to depose Benjamin Crump to inquire into how he discovered who she was, how he set up the interview and how he conducted it. He has already provided that information to defense counsel in a 15-page affidavit, but they seek further inquiry.

I do not believe there is any legitimate legal issue whether Benjamin Crump is an attorney who acted in his official capacity as counsel for Trayvon’s parents to locate DD and interview her to collect and preserve information to support a potential lawsuit against the defendant for causing the wrongful death of their son as well as to support a possible murder charge against the defendant. There simply is no question that his interest in representing Trayvon’s parents is in opposition to the defendant’s interest in being granted immunity from civil and criminal prosecution and that was just as certain before the defendant was charged as it is today. Therefore, what he did to secure DD’s interview and all of his notes and research regarding it are attorney-client work product and protected from disclosure.

Judge Nelson reportedly also found that he was acting as “opposing counsel,” a finding that provides additional legal justification to shield him from submitting to a deposition since that is prohibited, subject to a few limited and inapplicable exceptions. There is no serious question that he was acting in that capacity even though no criminal charge or civil suit had been filed.

Either way I do not see a significant legal issue to appeal.

If you want to read an excellent legal argument regarding this issue, check-out Bruce Blackwell’s memorandum.

Meanwhile, trouble is brewing at the Treehouse where Sundance is calling for Don West to take over the defense. According to his open letter to Mr. West, he believes O’Mara is incompetent and DD does not exist. I do not link to that site, but Opera Carla posted a copy of the letter in the comments thread to my Many Blessings post.

351 Responses to Judge Nelson Properly Denied the Defense Motion to Depose Benjamin Crump in Trayvon Martin Case

  1. xy11xy says:


    I wanted to reply up top, but I didn’t have a “reply” button.

    Thanks for that.

    O’Mara slings those racist arguments like an old pro, eh? It’s like it’s woven into his bones. Bet he didn’t have to read up on it, or anything.

    I got into a knock-down-drawn-out with Knetchel when I said O’Mara is a racist pig. Oh well, so much for that CRAZY theory.

    It’s not like breakfast cereal where though you always eat oatmeal, occasionally you might have Corn Flakes. Racist tactics are so ugly, you can’t have them just sometimes… They have to be in your bones. You’ve got to learn them at your mother’s knee.

    Never mind that children DIE because of those same tactics.

    O’Mara is an old pro.

    • xy11xy says:

      What was it West said at the hearing….”we’re out of time..”

      Out of time to do what? I bet they thought they’d have years to carry on a media offensive…

  2. colin black says:

    Staying awake all night NO SLEEP.
    Is as irrasponsable .
    If you intend driveing a long road trip as driveing drunk.

  3. Tzar says:

    so you guys thought
    testifying without cross examination was a big deal, or maybe deposing opposing counsel was innovative

    well I present to you
    too big to try
    George Zimmerman Cites Massive Weight Gain in Reason to Postpone Trial

    take that justice system!

    • Xena says:

      @Tzar. From the article

      Neither Zimmerman nor his wife has jobs, O’Mara said. George Zimmerman spends all day thinking about the second-degree murder case against him and has gained 105 pounds, the attorney said.

      Well, O’Mara had better hurry up and get GZ in prison so he can stop thinking about the 2nd degree murder case against him. May Trayvon’s screams for his life give GZ nightmares. GZ can lose the weight while he’s in prison.

      • jm says:

        “Neither Zimmerman nor his wife has jobs, O’Mara said. George Zimmerman spends all day thinking about the second-degree murder case against him and has gained 105 pounds, the attorney said.”

        O’Mara has clearly lost his mind. The excuse that Zimmerman spends all day thinking about the murder case so he gained 105 pounds is ludicrous. Obviously GZ spends a lot of the day eating. Why doesn’t he exercise? There is in-door equipment he could purchase with other people’s money instead of pizza and Cheezits.

        • Xena says:

          @jm. Apparently, GZ cannot exercise, wear off calories cleaning house, or change his eating habits because he spends all day thinking about being a killer and facing the judge and jury, wondering which one of his stories will work the best for him.

          It’s all God’s plan.

      • Tzar says:

        who woulda thunk it, killing unarmed children can be stressful…
        clearly this is a first and obvious ground for postponement

        • Xena says:

          @Tzar. Yeah. You got it. The charge isn’t going anywhere.

          Why is it that lies always seem contradictory?

          Your honor, my client has gained over 100 pounds because he worries all day about the charge against him. So I respectfully request this court to delay trial so he can continue to worry and gain more weight. Thank you.

          • jm says:

            Xena: “Your honor, my client has gained over 100 pounds because he worries all day about the charge against him. So I respectfully request this court to delay trial so he can continue to worry and gain more weight.”

            Is this another example of MOM trying to get out of facing the indisputable evidence that his client is a liar and a murderer in a trial that MOM has no defense for other than a picture of GZ with a “broken” bloody nose he likes to flash around hoping for more donations?

            Could GZ be committing a slow suicide hoping not to have to face the inevitable trial which will expose him for the cowardly murderer he is?

          • Xena says:


            Could GZ be committing a slow suicide hoping not to have to face the inevitable trial which will expose him for the cowardly murderer he is?

            Looks like that. Also, he could be comforting himself through food. Just goes to show that he finds no comfort in his family and supporters.

          • jm says:

            Xena says “….. he could be comforting himself through food. Just goes to show that he finds no comfort in his family and supporters.”

            I think there is no comfort in family and supporters because GZ knows he has lied and the only reason these people support him is because of the lies he has told. He knows those lies are going to be exposed in a trial in June so he might as well eat and drink what he wants now because the end is near for him.


          • As far as fogen not being able to fit thru the doors of the courthouse…….

            Might I recommend street justice…..as the streets would accommodate fogens girth

          • blushedbrown says:


            If O’mara wants to use XXXXXX weight gain as a “handicap”, the court clearly states on the bottom of all of their notices, they provide special services to accommodate the handicapped.

            But he might want to fill out those forms first. 😈

          • Xena says:


            Might I recommend street justice…..as the streets would accommodate fogens girth

            GZ is already subject to street justice. In a way, he makes his money off the streets. He gets his legal advice from the streets. Those things have not worked out well for him. So, after taking that whipping from the streets, he still has to face the court.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            |||=> Tick Tock! <-|||

          • Xena says:


            Tick tock.

          • cielo62 says:

            A call out there to those with medical backgrounds- I read somewhere that the rapid weight gain plus that moon face is due to withdrawal from steroids. Any truth to that?

            Sent from my iPod

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Good lord at 6 oz per day he’ll weigh close 400 lbs by trial. If O’Mara won his delay to November they’d need to put new gates on the prison cell.

          • xy11xy says:

            Well, it’s a little known fact that when O’Mara told Judge Nelson that he needed two rows for his “staff”, he really meant two rows for George.

            …True story.

      • ladystclaire says:

        Who cares about how much weight he has gained, I know I don’t. this guy bought and paid for all of his troubles so all I’ve got to say about it is deal with it. this defense team looks really ignorant coming up with this as an excuse as to why his trial should be delayed. Trayvon and his parents need to have some closure, as much as they can because, this will always be with them because, they have lost a son/brother forever. I could care less about this person who took the life of an innocent child and lied about it. as for working, neither he or his wife were working steady jobs for any length of time but, there is no reason why they can’t get jobs now.

        • Xena says:


          Who cares about how much weight he has gained, I know I don’t.

          I want him to be able to stand trial without having a stroke, heart attack, or going into a diabetic coma. Looks like he’s gaining a pound for every lie he has told and tells, so the closer we get to trial, the bigger he gets.

      • blushedbrown says:


        Are they for real?!?! Weight gain as an excuse to delay trial?!
        Can he use the “I’m gaining weight defense so I can’t stand trial” Has O’mara gone LOCO!!

        • Xena says:

          @blushedbrown. Yes, O’Mara has gone LOCO. LOL! Note: he didn’t say anything about a weight loss program, so the longer it takes for trial, the more weight GZ will have gained because after all, awaiting trial is his reason for why he has gained over 100 lbs in less than a year.

          Didn’t O’Mara try using an argument about a trial being continued and not held for 3 yrs? Three years, and the courthouse will need to put a tent outside for GZ’s trial because he won’t be able to fit through the courthouse doors. I’m not meaning to sound like mocking — if he put on 100 lbs in less than a year, he’ll have put on 300 lbs in 3 years and be over 400 lbs in weight.

          • manberk says:

            The weight gain is probably as a result of Fogens addictions. He’s replaced one, eating, for whichever one hes no longer able to indulge in, whether that be drinking, drugging or stalking people.

          • Ah So….It has always been my professional opinion the Mr zimmerman suffers from what is known as FFTL….”Fat Fools Telling Lies”

            It is also my considered opinion that he also suffers from Zackery disease………..Face look zackery like ass.

            Dr. Foo Ling Yu MD

          • Xena says:


            The weight gain is probably as a result of Fogens addictions. He’s replaced one, eating, for whichever one hes no longer able to indulge in, whether that be drinking, drugging or stalking people.

            That’s an excellent point. Last year around June, an astrologer wrote that GZ’s chart reveals drug addictions that will subsequently be revealed. Your comment reminded me of that.

          • blushedbrown says:


            Ok let me get this straight. The XXXXX is gaining weight. He is on a not so restrictive time of 6am to 6pm to be outside. He can run around in his backyard. But he also has other peoples money in which he can pay his personal bills but he can’t go on Craigslist and buy a used treadmill? How about shopping online, he can go on Amazon and buy used excercise cds where he can only buy one at a fraction of the retail cost. I think O’mara can get his staffers do this. Because I won’t provide those links for the defense, they can’t afford me. 😈 HA!

            Note to O’mara: GET FREAKIN’ REAL!

          • jm says:

            BB: “Note to O’mara: GET FREAKIN’ REAL!”

            I truly don’t think that is possible. At the risk of sounding disrespectful, MOM appears as big a liar and as delusional as GZ.

            I don’t like MOM or his tactics.

          • blushedbrown says:


            You know what , your right. What the heck was I thinking.

            The tactics used by this man ARE totally disrespectful and he lies like his client.

          • Xena says:

            LOL@blushedbrown. Even a treadmill without a proper diet is going to help GZ. When his bond was revoked and he was ordered back to jail, he had gained some weight then. After the bond do-over, the next time we saw him was on Hannity. Then came October and it was WHOA!!

            Apparently, he’s off the Adderall.

          • blushedbrown says:


            I am having a hard time believing that O’mara is actually going this route. It is beyond ridiculous to even try in push this idea out there to the public. To garner sympathy for XXXXX, in the manner O’mara is pushing for, doesn’t acheive the result he is aiming for.

            Most people do not have sympathy for a person who is obese. Society puts alot of the onus on the indivdual. I must add that while there are some people with eating disorders, and thyroid problems, he does not fit in the “normal” catergories attached to eating disorders. O’mara is pushing the premise that he is overeating because of his upcoming trial. Most people would react and say, “Well, that’s his problem, he killed a person so he reaps what he sows. O’mara doesn’t know what he is doing. Those tactics, work better in a divorce case. IMO

          • Xena says:


            I am having a hard time believing that O’mara is actually going this route. It is beyond ridiculous to even try in push this idea out there to the public.

            O’Mara is being superficial. The jury is unlikely to be impressed by GZ even if he looked like Brad Pitt.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Hahaha… What idiots, if that were true everyone accused of a crime would simply gain weight and never face trial. O’Mara is reminding me of the movie “And Justice for All”, rubber room stuff.

  4. Malisha says:

    It’s astonishing that the defense team believes it has the right to invade, derogate, and attack everybody who doesn’t agree with their version of reality. Judge made notes? Hand them over! DeeDee is a witness? Reveal everything about her and delve into her private medical records. Crump represents the family? Force him to divulge everything he ever said, heard or thought about the case so you can distort and misinterpret everything. Invade, Insult, Invalidate, Insidiously assault. Just as Fogen did to Trayvon Martin, they now want to do to the whole world unless it gives them what THEY WANT.

    Fogen is well matched with his arrogant, inappropriate, unscrupulous lawyers. He’s sitting up there somewhere trying to get a good hacker to write a program to phuck up his ankle bracelet so he can flee and leave the “team” holding the bag. Think again, Fogen. Choo choo choo choo chooooooo…

  5. LLMPapa says:

    In remembrance….

  6. Live stream TRAYVON MARTIN rally NYC Right now!!http://www.ustream.tv/channel/9943232

  7. colin black says:

    Now been removed I only meant delete post re arris trial posted here by mistake.
    Not my on toppic posts.
    Did I say write something offenceive ?
    If so ? was it.

  8. colin black says:

    Now all my post gone into moderation

  9. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    As we light our candles for Trayvon tonight, I am also going to see such a lighting as an way to light the path toward justice for Trayvon.


    “Light A Candle”

    Instead of cursing the darkness,
    Light a candle for where we’re going,
    There’s something ahead, worth fighting for.

    When the light of time is on us,
    You will see our moment come,
    And the living soul inside will carry on.

    It’s a chance to give new meaning to every move we make

    • willisnewton says:

      Neil Young is awesome. ALthough I think maybe a better song of his would be “Keep On Rockin’ In the Free World”

      There’s one more kid
      that will never go to school
      Never get to fall in love,
      never get to be cool.

      Also of course the righteous indignation of the whole thing comes across when Neil plays his loud guitar.

  10. towerflower says:

    Shannon, can you repost the story? I can bring it up, instead the OS wants me to now pay to view the stories.

    • blushedbrown says:

      Thank you Shannon!!!

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      I had not seen that yet. Thanks for keeping me up to date, shannon.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Thanks, Shannon!

      I’m thrilled with the NBC response. Why CTH & TL thought NBC would do anything except fight Fogen’s assertions is beyond me. In fact, why there are so many delusions about this case is amazing!

      • rachaelbs says:

        They think GZ is going to be rich from suing everyone. They think he should even sue Trayvon’s parents, they probably think he should sue this blog and all of us individually. They think with all the money he’s gonna get, he will fix tje national debt. They have no grasp of the law or reality.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Once the criminal case is resolved and Fogen ends up behind his heavenly bars, the NBC case is likely to be dismissed.

      • gbrbsb says:

        Mind you, if he ever did win I bet he wouldn’t have the money for long as no doubt Crump would be hot on it´s trail.

    • rachaelbs says:

      Thank you. What wonderful news, especially today.

    • Xena says:

      @Shannon. Thanks for the info. There’s a good chance that Judge Nelson will continue the case until after GZ’s criminal trial.

    • OrlandoSentinel.com

      NBC says in response to lawsuit that Zimmerman doesn’t deserve a payout from us

      The network makes its first official response to the murder defendant’s defamation suit.

      By Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel

      6:58 PM EST, February 26, 2013


      Click here to find out more!

      SANFORD — Attorneys for NBC Universal Media LLC have filed a response to the defamation suit filed by murder defendant George Zimmerman, saying the murder suspect deserves no payout from it.

      In two pleadings that total more than 100 pages, the company also asks Circuit Judge Debra S. Nelson to put a temporary hold on the civil suit until Zimmerman’s second-degree murder case is concluded.

      “While there is no legitimate basis for Zimmerman’s claims against these defendants, who fairly and accurately reported about a news event that has captivated the nation, now is simply not the time to litigate them,” wrote Gregg D. Thomas, a Tampa attorney who specializes in media issues and was hired by NBC.

      The criminal case is set for trial June 10. Nelson is the judge assigned both cases.

      Zimmerman filed suit against NBC in December, alleging that NBC and its Miami affiliate, WTVJ, falsely portrayed him as a racist in five reports.

      Several involved the way NBC employees edited a now-famous police dispatch recording from the night he shot Trayvon Martin, one year ago.

      Zimmerman had called police, describing Trayvon, who was unarmed and had no criminal record, as suspicious.

      In the NBC edit of that recording, station or network employees deleted a portion, making it appear as if Zimmerman volunteered that the suspicious figure he saw was black.

      In truth, he gave that description after the dispatcher asked Trayvon’s race.

      The suit also faults the media company for broadcasting a report in which it said Zimmerman used a racial epithet while on the phone with the dispatcher.

      Two of the reporters named individually in the suit have been fired.

      Thomas and the firm for which he works, Thomas & LoCicero PL, represents the Orlando Sentinel.

      rstutzman@tribune.com or 407-650-6394

      Copyright © 2013, Orlando Sentinel

  11. Trained Observer says:

    No disrespect meant to actor Ken Osmond’s Eddie Haskell from Leave It To Beaver, who certainly was no murderer.

    But when watching Fogen’s re-enactment at the killing scene, his videoed explanations at the cop shop, or even his NEN call … I can’t help but think: Smarm, smarm, smarm.

    The Mrs. Cleavers of America know smarmy-smarmy-smarmy-smarm-smarm when they hear/see it.

    Women of any age — be they black, white, hispanic, or whatever — who end up on Fogen’s jury will spot this long-time troublemaker and low-life as what he is — a lying smarm. After that, forensics and other facts in Trayvon’s slaying will seal this smarm’s fate and win the day.

    On this sad anniversary, RIP Trayvon.

    • willisnewton says:

      “Gee, Beav, Dad’ll go ape.”

      “Yeah, Wally, I know.”

      Good analogy, TO. Fogen thinks he can smarm his way out of anything. He’s in for a rude awakening.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        “My, Mrs. Cleaver, Theodore is such a fine young man.”

        Later to the Beav:

        “Beat it, squirt.”

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      from song:

      <blockquoteAnd I know you're shining
      Down on me from heaven,
      Like so many friends
      We've lost along the way
      And I know eventually
      We'll be together (together)
      One sweet day

      Although the sun will
      Never shine the same
      I'll always look
      To a brighter day

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        When I copied this song, it was the rose that appeared on the selection. I had thought that it would appear here as a flower offering. (guess not)

    • ladystclaire says:

      Such a beautiful song and, whenever I hear that song, I always think of my parents and my sister. I will now add Trayvon as well. ONE SWEET DAY we will see the old and the new once again.

  12. colin black says:

    Willisnewton .

    Seems B Lee N Wolfinger are best .. A count a Bill a buddies.

    An probably counted many dollar bills in there time….

    Buddies as they are an seems Papa Zimm an ole Norm Wolfinger .

    Where a couple of ole wolfs in sheeps clothing.

    With lots of fingers in pies together…

  13. racerrodig says:

    We all know how ridiculous “dem boys be at da Outhouse” but I decided to see what garbage is rolling around and got no farther than this “……the case of Trayvon Martin vs George Zimmerman.

    So I decided to make my first post there today. I had to correct them and sate that “..for the record it is “The State of Florida vs (Fogen)”

    • jm says:

      Racer: “……. So I decided to make my first post there today. I had to correct them and sate that “..for the record it is “The State of Florida vs (Fogen)”

      And their response was?

    • Rachael says:

      Believe me, if you get any farther than that, you will puke. The fumes from there are especially noxious today.

  14. colin black says:

    Scented Cndle cherry blossom check.
    Me me wife an toerag the big ole tabby will be virgilised.
    Thunderbirds are go.


    foggens+ Trayvonight.

    Tonight an every other night foggen
    Trayvonight will have you cowering an blubbering.
    Imagine the Fear you installed in that CHILD
    As you said
    Your gonna die tonight mo fo.

    Knowing your menaced words were true .
    As he saw the hate in your bulging eyes an saw you prepare to pull the trigger .

    His fear was mercilessly fleeting an he is at peace now.
    Your fear will never end.

  15. willisnewton says:

    (Former) Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee, Jr and local prosecutor Norm Wolfinger believed no charges should have been filed against George Zimmerman in the wake of the killing, yet now the state’s Special Prosecutor Angela Corey charges Murder 2. IMO these two persons should be the subject of a credible outside investigation since it seems they were either corrupt, incompetent or racially biased when they should have taken action on this tragic incident and failed to do so. The DoJ is NOT seemingly conducting such an investigation, and in fact announced at the time of their initial involvement that they were starting a probe to see if George Zimmerman violated Trayvon Martin’s civil rights (ie, could be charged with a federal hate crime.)

    The real tragedy here is that these two elected public officials have not faced the light of day for their curious actions/ inaction. Within 48 hours of the killing, the Sanford Police investigators knew that George Zimmerman was lying about his whereabouts in the moments leading up to the killing, because of the inconsistencies, contradictions, omissions and obfuscation comprising his many statements to police. Yet both Wolfinger and chief Bill Lee, Jr, refused to arrest and prefer charges against George Zimmerman.

    Society will always have “bad actors” like GZ, wannabe cops and vigilantes with easy access to handguns and less common sense than is good for the world. But we have a duty to hold those on the public payroll to higher standards and Florida is a “sunshine state” where these principals of open government records and accountability are enshrined at the highest levels. BUT DON’T BE FOOLED: there is currently no evidence in the public record that any sort of credible outside agency is investigating the duo, or the actions of the Sanford Police Department’s handling of the case in general. And on this anniversary, THAT is what I am mourning and outraged about most.

    • whonoze says:

      My sentiments exactly.

      I posted this song before, and to my chagrin, no one commented. It’s Bob Dylan’s “The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carrol,” which tells the true story of how the justice system dealt with a rich white man who killed a black servant.

      Unfortunately, I think GZ may have been right about one thing: the real assholes always do get away.

      • Rachael says:

        I commented, didn’t I? It is based on a true story and it was horrifying. And you posted it kind of as a play on words because Bob Dylan’s real name is Robert Zimmerman.

      • gbrbsb says:

        Forget the chagrin whonoze, I saw it weeks back but too late to comment… always one of my favourites along with “Hurricane”

    • type1juve says:

      @WillisNewton. I share your anger about this. I don’t understand how these public officials are allowed to just slither away given what we do know about this case. And no one in the media seems interested in finding out what really went on the night Trayvon Martin was murdered. Yes, Fogen is responsible for Trayvon’s death, but he was definitely enabled by the SPD.

      • willisnewton says:

        thanks type but I have to say I am not sure what role the SPD played ultimately. We won’t really ever know unless a credible outside investigation is undertaken, and we haven’t even heard much from investigative journalists, either.

        The “police misteps” piece in the NYT was as close as I’ve seen to a decent report from a real journalist. The reporter has a Pulitzer for his work, and dug as hard as his deadline allowed. Wolfinger refused to talk to the “newspaper of record” and that tells you something about what he feels his responsibility to the public is.

        I’m hoping that Serino will authorize a “tell all” book after the case is concluded. Maybe Singleton will if he won’t. Those two know where the skeletons are, I bet. To my mind this duo did a good job, maybe not a perfect one but they quickly and reliably established that the shooter was lying his arse off, and that counts for a lot in my book. It should in court as well.

        Had GZ clammed up and called for a lawyer from the start, he’s likely be a free man today. It’s his own statements that sink him, and Serino handled him with a good cop/good cop approach that kept him spewing contradictory statements and obvious fabrications for quite a while. My favorite tactic they used was the “voice stress test” which was a two-fold process – one, they had GZ wait for a long time with Singleton in an empty room, where she said little. George, in his nervousness talks to fill the empty space and this is where he made the comment about “respecting authority” that seemed telling to me. Then they brought in a supposed “tester” who acted distracted when he made GZ go over his story one more time. This is where George most clearly gave the impression that the initial blow knocked him to the grass backwards immediately, IIRC. Then, for a final coup, they allowed George to leave with the impression that he “passed” the phoney test so that he would continue to cooperate the next day with the “walk thru” where he spewed more lies.

        If the SPD has rotten apples, I think it may be at the patrollman level and of course at the top, with Bill Lee, Jr. But we’ll never know for sure.

      • whonoze says:

        And then there’s this song, as an example of a proper response to the SPD befitting this tragic anniversary.

  16. colin black says:

    Got my Hoogie on but I practically always have a Hoodie on.
    Even in bed my Pj include a hoodie.
    I like to cover my eyes with it.
    But I purchased a really cool one from a thrift shop last week.
    Dark Gray only three pounds fifty.
    Since it was a charity shop P D S A.
    I paid a fiver an told them to keep the change.
    It my new Fav Hoodie an am wearing it now..

  17. Memorial Tribute. Protesting The Killing of Trayvon Martin

  18. Hoodie Vigil forTrayvon Martin


    The parents of Trayvon Martin are asking people to mark the one year anniversary of the teenager’s death in a controversial case by wearing hoodies during a candlelight vigil tonight.

    Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin, the teenager’s parents, and their lawyers will be hosting a Million Hoodies Candlelight Vigil in New York’s Union Square.

    They are asking supporters to join them “for a moment of silence in honor of Trayvon Martin and all victims of senseless gun violence.”

    Communities around the country are expected to host similar events tonight.

  19. colin black says:


    I don’t think Baez won that case, but that the prosecutor lost it.

    I M O neither occoured.
    The seqestered jurours became close liveing togeter eating an attending court to do there duty together.

    Theu knew they were involved in a huge publicity wise case.
    An Images of Caylee stories theories had generated vast somes of cash.

    They formed a culture of entitlement with J Perry pandering to there every whim.
    Want a B Ball match piped into your rooms sure no prob.
    A nod an a wink did you get the special trat with the sweet trolley today.

    All the money flying around this case an they felt at least a few dominant ones wanted a cut.
    Everyone knew Caylee didnt accidently drown in the back yard swimming pool.
    An most people looking honestly at swampmoms cosious of guilt as she covered her tracks an lied lied lied.
    New shw killed her Daughter with malice aforethought m o o.
    An thease jurours thought the best way to earn big coin from a childs death.

    Was to return a perverse unexpected verdict.
    Oh we will have book deals magazines movies oh oh we gonna have such a good life.
    An we are entitled after those weeks of seclusion at that luxury hotel.
    Ive gained 20 pounds in weight because of my sacrifice being a good citizen.

    All this was agreed amongst Jenifer Ford an a few other dominant ones
    Not dureing deliberation just through talk in down time
    They knew what the verdict would be before they even retired to consider it.
    Just spent as much or little time possable to return there perverse verdict
    An the two whom tentively voted guilty to all charges.
    Where bullied by the other ten to come around.
    Thats why no evidence was reveiwed .

    So i m o prosecution never lost an defence never won..

    The Pinnellas pinheads knowingly set a child murderer free in the hope of financial gain.

    Thats why none apeared to the after verdict press confab confrence.
    It was just a case of sit back an wait for the bidding wars to breakout.

  20. Trayvon, 3ChicsPolitico will ALWAYS remember you and will continue to fight for justice. We stand in solidarity with the Martins as they seek justice for you.

    There is still work to do. What will you do? Call your Congressman, write a letter, blog, tweet, email, fax, or sign a petition. Lets get busy!

    Hoodies Up!

  21. pat deadder says:

    To Ladystclair you wrote the defense lawyers make Baez look like a sitting judge.That’s why I’m worried about the outcome of this. Baez won the case.

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      You can’t compare this case with the Anthony case. There is so much evidence in this case and the charge is murder 2. In the Anthony case they couldn’t even tell conclusively how and when Caylee died. I know people get very emotional about it, but that prosecutor charged Casey Anthony with murder 1, based on circumstantial evidence.

      I don’t think Baez won that case, but that the prosecutor lost it.

    • ladystclaire says:

      I’m not in any way shape or form comparing these two cases! what I’m saying is that Baez was in over his head in the Anthony case. I more than anybody don’t want to see the defense win this case because the POS is guilty as sin. in the Anthony case, they couldn’t tell how Caylee died. I admit that Casey Anthony should have been convicted.

  22. elcymoo says:

    Trayvon Martin’s mother: ‘Use this case as an example’
    Posted by Jonathan Capehart on February 25, 2013 at 6:38 pm


  23. rachaelbs says:

    The outhouse sure needs a plumber today. They are overflowing with hatred.

  24. rachaelbs says:

    The outhouse sure needs a plumber today.

    • more like 5 stupid insignificant points about gz! it’s another biased half-assed junk piece! I mean come on!?? in one paragraph they repeat 2x that poor gz was made in fear for his life and has to wear a bullet proof vest!

      they never mention anything positive about Trayvon and they said only 70 people showed up today in Sanford as if NOTHING else is happening throughout the country FOR Trayvon!
      and that the murder divided the blacks and whites!! unreal!
      just makes me more anxious for gz’s trial and all the evidence put out, see him convicted and locked up forever! oh, and him and his family forgotten!!

  25. Xena says:

    CNN just showed a letter written to GZ that said,
    “Don’t let the damn blacks hold you back.”

  26. Two sides to a story says:

    Great music, everyone. Heres’s a video and petition in honor of Trayvon at Color of Change.

  27. esentrick says:


  28. In honor of Trayvon, I will not post again until tomorrow at 6:30 pm EST.

    Until then . . .

  29. You all have thoughtful comments says:

  30. ay2z says:

    Tears in Heaven, sung by young Andrew Johnston

    • I’m surprised! I just knew I wasn’t gonna like it cas It’s a personal favorite of mine and i’m kinda a purist!
      but wow! amazing voice and I can imagine him joined by an orchestra!

  31. ay2z says:

    The prayer by Jonathan and Charlotte, full album version.

  32. Lito says:

    Professor I just wanted to say that your blog is the most interesting and educational site I’ve been on in a long time. I find myself comin here every chance I get to learn something new from you and all who comment here. That being said, the nutters can say witness 8 is a fraud all they want. Phone records don’t lie and “dd” made a statement BEFORE anyone else really knew what happened between fogen and trayvon. I hope a few more people are charged before this case is over. Ur right fogen is toxic to those around him

  33. Malisha says:

    Randye Jones, soprano, and lead researcher, Art of the Negro Spiritual:

  34. Jun says:

    You know what I noticed about the Conservative Tinfoil Hat Letter

    It is hypocrite 101

    They are saying that Deedee is Fogenhats’ accuser

    Now is Omara not accusing Deedee and Crump?

    so according to his and the Tinfoil Hat logic, Deedee and Crump would be allowed to depose Omara and also get Fogenhats’ personal address of his hideouts since the night of the murder, as well as Omara’s personal address to verify his whereabouts, and also Omara’s medical records for the past three years, and speak to every single neighbor of Omara’s and Fogenhats’, all his family members, etc

    • Rachael says:

      What? DeeDee is not his accuser, the state is. DeeDee is merely a state’s witness. That guy os trying so hard to muddy rhe waters, there’s something wrong with him. I don’t know what his deal is.

    • Malisha says:

      You know, Serino wanted to charge Fogen with Murder-2 before he had ever even HEARD of DeeDee. And HE’s the only one of that crowd who was a homicide detective. HA HA HA!

    • jd says:

      Tongue-in-cheek reply: Were the prosecution or Crump somehow allowed to depose MOM, I’d hoipe they would ask him (under oath) what he really knew about the hidden money and passport that he conveniently “forgot” to fed ex over to the State.

      Of course this tit-for-tat is just a way to show how ridiculous the defense motions are. But having said that, I don’t trust the credibility of MOM regarding the issue of the hidden passport. When (not if and when, but when) Fogen goes down in flames, I hope he is stupid enough to let it be known to the courts that the hidden passport issue implicates MOM in a cover-up because I strongly suspect that MOM lied to the court regarding the timing of his possession of the hidden passport.

  35. colin black says:

    Its already the 26 from where Im posting 1 304 am.
    Early memorial thought.

  36. colin black says:


    For you a landslide occoured
    Never to Forrget/

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      What a beautiful line to connect with your comment, “Trayvon, for you a landslide (of support) occurred. Never forget. Peace.”


  37. Judy75201 says:

    Were the funeral, the interment, and any memorial for Trayvon all held at the same time?

    • gbrbsb says:

      Iirc no. I believe there was also a wake so which one MOM & co want to know DD wasn’t at, who knows?

      • Trained Observer says:

        DD did not attend the wake, according to Crump’s affadavit. She apparently did attend the funeral, at least according to a family member of Trayvon’s who said he met her at the funeral.

        • gbrbsb says:

          Yes, (iirc) it was Trayvon´s cousin who said he was introduced to her at the funeral, but I also seem to recall that when BDLR interviewed her he joined funeral and wake together so as she answered no I´m not sure if it became clear if she didn´t attend one, both or neither but likely not important anyway so looks like a wild goose chase.

        • Xena says:

          @Trained Observer

          DD did not attend the wake, according to Crump’s affadavit. She apparently did attend the funeral, at least according to a family member of Trayvon’s who said he met her at the funeral.

          Well, there we have it!!! Attorney Crump says “wake” and some Zidiot not knowing the difference between wake and funeral says “funeral” and that is why West wants to catch DeeDee in a lie.

      • Malisha says:

        gbr, they’re chasing a wild goose because they know that their goose is cooked!

      • manberk says:

        @Xena they want to catch DD in a lie because they, SDC, didn’t like the tone of the tweets by the wrong girl on the eve of TMs death. Live most other accusations, baseless. Or as Blackwell said, naked!

        • Xena says:

          @manberk. Yep. The Feign Team is doing everything besides trying to prove that GZ killed Trayvon in self-defense — because the evidence is against GZ.

          • manberk says:

            @Xena Yeah.Then we have the authenticity of the DD tapes, which sailed thru the FDLE, the FBI and were recorded with ABC news in the room. The D will surely get to the bottom of this conspiracy too. But, I wouldnt bet my life on it….LOL.

          • Xena says:


            @Xena Yeah.Then we have the authenticity of the DD tapes, which sailed thru the FDLE, the FBI and were recorded with ABC news in the room.

            O’Mara and West wasted all that time just to learn that the Zidiots are wrong. My bet is on BDLR not entering any taped interview of DeeDee into evidence other than the interview he conducted.

          • manberk says:

            @xena, I think you’re right. And they can just call her as a witness. This conspiracy is simply a way to feed the monster. They offer an elaborate story but no evidence of it. And that imo is why their motions appear unsupported by facts. I think MOM/West are careful marching up to the line but not crossing it. They know whats true and whats not true. They allude to, but dont accuse. What places like the CTH have proven to them is there are some people stupid enough to fall for this shit. And their folly is aimed at them. Those potential jurors (coffers) who can be influenced based on their own biases. I believe there are people who want to see GZ get off. Guilt and innocence isnt important. Painting DD as untrustworthy represents a way they THINK they can get GZ off. The truth is it has no impact on the evidence.

          • Xena says:


            I believe there are people who want to see GZ get off. Guilt and innocence isnt important. Painting DD as untrustworthy represents a way they THINK they can get GZ off. The truth is it has no impact on the evidence.

            BINGO! Last year March during the gatherings, Zidiots were taunting “lock and load” saying there would be riots because there was no evidence to charge GZ. Then GZ was charged and since, Zidiots have tried taunting some conspiracy theory on the premise that it will have the case dismissed before trial.

            They have no sense of the criminal justice system. None.

  38. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    It is one year to the moment of the following:
    Witness 18’s 911 call connecting at 7:17:06


    someone is yelling and screaming ‘help’ and I heard I don’t like a pop noise
    Oh, my God.
    Oh, my God. Why does he have to be killed?
    Oh, my God.
    for somebody to be shot.
    Oh, my God. To see someone killed laying in the grass. Oh, my God.
    Why would this man just shoot him…
    Oh, my God. Why would somebody kill someone like that?
    Oh, my God. Oh, my God!
    Oh, God. I mean, they’re looking at the person that’s dead. I just…
    Oh, God.
    But I… when someone yells for help, though, you feel like you wish you could have helped them, you know.
    Sorry, I’m just shaking.
    It’s frightening me,you know.Well I never… Seeing trauma like this
    Oh, God.
    I mean. I don’t know. I don’t know any… the circumstance. It’s just like if you’re, you know, if you see somebody’s getting hurt.But I just can’t believe somebody would shoot someone.
    Oh, God.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      I have been one day off……sorry.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Well, maybe by my posting this early, LLMPapa, Xena or Blushedbrown might be able to incorporate it in something they do tomorrow in recognition of the anniversary of the shooting and death of Trayvon on February 26

        • Xena says:

          (hint, hint) 🙂

          I’m not fast with videos like LLMPapa but already planned to post a LLMPapa video for tomorrow. I have Piers Morgan on now and if Trayvon’s parents say anything that gives me another idea, I’ll probably change plans.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Okay, I haven’t said this before, but I think one thing that Witness 18 said is very telling:

        Why would this man just shoot him…
        Oh, my God. Why would somebody kill someone like that?

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Remember that Witness 18 saw the last moments of the struggle and was watching at the moment of the shot.

        I feel her question indicates that she felt that there was no reason for gz to shoot Trayvon. I think that to Witness 18, gz was NOT in a position that he needed to defend himself. I think she felt that gz shot Trayvon when he was in a superior position and that it was an act of aggression.

        This realization, I think, added to her being frightened and shaken and is why she was filled with empathy for Trayvon.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          She knows that the greatest number of youths in the neighborhood are not armed thugs and therefore represent no mortal danger, so why would anyone even pull a gun on one of them, less fire the weapon at them. And it turns out that her assumptions were 100% spot on correct. Trayvon was just an innocent youth, returning home from the store.

          GZ’s angry and aggravated hostile assumptions, that he claims justified his creation of a hostile atmosphere of danger for Trayvon, was the right thing to do, because he had a right, as NW to protect the neighborhood from these “f’k’n thugs who always get away!” Of course, if we dissect GZ’s filthy offense filled narrative, for a clue as to what his key indication of a potential criminal is, we find that “Black” is the only standout key. While his “cross hairs” wander across several indicators, they always center on “black” as the targeted suspects and perpetrators of crime. Even while GZ’s own official documents and records have him portraying himself as white. Yet, not once on any form does he ever write “Afro Peruvian” or either term, just white.

          As we sift through the evidence, witness statements and GZ’s own assertions, declarations and narratives about that night, it becomes increasingly clear that he left home with criminal intent that night. He even took his wifes gun, leaving her unprotected at home, exposed to the vagaries of the claimed horrendous crime wave. He had to be very desperate to do that, but why should he be so desperate, ostensibly before he even knew there was an available target?
          Surely he’s man enough to accomplish a simple shopping trip without a firearm? So why leave the wife at the tender mercy of the gathering horde?

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Witness 18 did not indicate any support for gz during that call.

      • gbrbsb says:


        I have been one day off……sorry.

        No, not completely. 2012 was a leap year so if you start at 29th Feb and count 365 days from there you are spot on… I think as like IANAL I am no mathematician either !

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Awww……How nice of you to allow me a little “grace space” 🙂

        I had been thinking all day, “Well, today is Monday…..it happened on a Sunday…..a year later Monday would be the year’s time.”

      • gbrbsb says:


        “Awww……How nice of you to allow me a little “grace space””

        You’re welcome!

    • Trained Observer says:

      Wow … When the above call from this compassionate witness is played (and hopefully a printed version also will be simultaneously displayed for jurors, Fogen’s face should likely turn as red as his jacket. Whatever else in subsequent details that the witness supplies under oath will help seal the conviction

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        True……but, as you probably know, I only quoted these “clips” which were scattered throughout that long call.

        It is much more powerful this way.

      • aussie says:

        No, they will try to discredit this witness as unreliable, because of her clearly emotional state.

        “She was falling to pieces because of what she just saw, therefore she must have been too shocked to observe what was happening, therefore she got it all wrong”.

        Wait and see.

    • Malisha says:

      You all, thanks for abstracting that and posting it again. It is an extremely important part of that evening’s events. It is a real anchor in the chaotic sea of dysfunctional humanity that swirled around the godforsaken RTL that night. Clear, cogent and firm. “Seeing trauma like this.”

    • LLMPapa says:

      She will be a powerful witness for the prosecution.

      • Malisha says:

        Goose is, Goose is, goose is cooked,
        Oh my Lord his goose is cooked.
        Goose is dressed and stuffed and cooked,
        Oh his goose is cooooooooooooooooked!

      • Ty Flair says:

        This really scare me right here,she said right after the gun shot fogen gets up an walks towards the light. We have the roommates saying after the shot he was standing over Trayvon pressing on his back. Both could not have happen. See this case is part of my life now,and I will leave no rock unturn. We have to make sure the prosecution gets it right. The smoke screen that got some of your attention is just smoke screen. We need to start putting witness statement together over again. DD is my ace is the hole. The prosecution have to get this right.

      • type1juve says:

        BOOM! We need reminders like this when the defense is out in front of the media pushing bs and playing shell games.

      • Malisha says:

        But Ty, both stories can be true without conflict or discrepancy. The teacher said that a couple of seconds later, she saw the bigger man walking away, and Thelma and her room-mate said that he stood over him briefly and seemed to push on his back, after which he got up and walked while making that universal slap-head gesture of “what have I done?” They’re not mutually exclusive events. He was on top of Trayvon, he shot him dead, he pushed on his back or something, he got up, he walked away, he told someone, “Just call the police,” and he made a gesture. Then, or soon thereafter, he asked someone to call his wife and he posed for his “poor me” picture.

      • Ty Flair says:

        @Malisha I hope you are right. Because to me it sound like the teacher said it was like two second when he got up and walk away. The roommate make it seem like after the shot he stood over Trayvon for awhile they even was calling his name and he did not respond. Remember the teacher was looking when the shot when off,the roommate just heard the shot and waited a few minutes before going outside. The teacher said he was up in seconds walking she never said he walk back towards Trayvon body. I will stick with the teacher on her statement. I may be wrong but you never know. I pray you are right Malisha.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          You have to keep in mind that these witnesses testimonies are not “clocked” according to the times they were observed, but only “timed” by impressions. The two witnesses from different perspectives see different views of the same thing and they are impressed and remember different actions from one another. Unless they’re giving us their views contemporaneously on a time stamped tape, then we can’t really say that they are each viewing discretely different or similar times. For that reason, their differing stories can both be true.

      • Tzar says:

        @ ty flair, maybe there were two people at the scene
        maybe the guy in the white shirt?

      • Ty Flair says:

        @Tzar these witness never mention the guy with the white shirt. All Im saying is we need to go back and revisit the witness statement and put together to tell the story. We don’t want the defense to punch holes the teacher statements or the roommates. We need to help the prosecution and these two statement from the teacher and roommates confuses me. They don’t add up. Professor do you have the answer.

  39. Lonnie Starr says:

    The case cannot be saved, it’s “Colin Ferguson” all over again.

  40. Xena says:

    Professor, thank you so much for posting on this issue. I have a favor to ask.
    There is a perception that Judge Nelson already made her decision before the hearing. She appeared to read from a pre-written statement.

    Can you address how most judges make decisions based on the pleadings before the hearing? That is why they want the pleadings filed so many days before the hearing, and to read the cited case decisions and authorities.

    During oral argument, if a judge hears something that is relevant that changes their mind, they generally then state that they will make their decision later.

    I am correct in that? Can you post on that subject so people can stop thinking that Judge Nelson came to the bench determined to deny the defense’s motions without first hearing their oral argument?

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Good question, Xena.
      I had thought that perhaps she had read the motion earlier and had notes listing the applicable past case rulings that would be related to the situation.
      Then in court she used those case rulings in combination with her decision made that actual day..

      • Xena says:


        I had thought that perhaps she had read the motion earlier and had notes listing the applicable past case rulings that would be related to the situation.
        Then in court she used those case rulings in combination with her decision made that actual day..

        Theoretically, yes. The thought that a judge would reach a decision without considering the filed pleadings is what I would like the Professor to address. That is the idea that Zidiots are promoting.

    • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

      Xena- That is exactly how I see it and it’s been bugging me as well. If the judge doesn’t read up on the cited cases and get prepared for the hearing they wouldn’t be doing their job.

      • Xena says:


        Xena- That is exactly how I see it and it’s been bugging me as well. If the judge doesn’t read up on the cited cases and get prepared for the hearing they wouldn’t be doing their job.


      • kimmi says:

        JN stated at the hearing she had read all the case laws listed in Blackwells response. Which from what I read, some of the Zidiots felt JN came all ‘prepared’ to deny the motion at the hearing, because she even listed case law against the motion!

        I was like, say what? Did any of them see the response?
        Do they even have a clue to anything that is going on???

        • Xena says:


          I was like, say what? Did any of them see the response?
          Do they even have a clue to anything that is going on???

          No, they haven’t a clue. There was a Zidiot comment where he actually believes that O’Mara can depose BDLR and Corey.

      • kimmi says:

        ETA-Obviously, none of the Zidiots took the time to read Blackwells response to the motion.

      • kimmi says:

        Then I think, why should that be suprising? I don’t think many of them have looked at any of the evidence in the doc dumps either.

        • Xena says:


          I don’t think many of them have looked at any of the evidence in the doc dumps either.

          Based on their comments and arguments, it’s my impression that they believe everything that is needed to know about what happened was stated by Papa Zim, Junior, and Joe Oliver. All evidence that is needed are the photos of GZ’s head and nose.

          GZ’s re-enactment? Nope. Discovery documents? Nope. Photos taken of GZ in the police station? Nope.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      I think she might have left blank spaces on the case studies page that she was then able to fill in as she listened to the arguments that day.

    • I will answer your question in a short post tomorrow.

      • Xena says:


        I will answer your question in a short post tomorrow.

        Tomorrow is a day of honor for Trayvon. I can wait until Wednesday.

        • OK, I’ll do it now.

          Most trial judges do not believe oral argument is useful. For example, lawyers have to request oral argument in federal court and the vast majority of requests are turned down. Basically, the rule is “don’t bother to ask unless you have witnesses to present in a contested matter.”

          State court judges permit oral argument even though most of them think it’s useless. They do their research and come to court prepared to make a ruling unless something comes up that was unexpected and requires further research. They view oral argument as an opportunity to ask questions to clarify any uncertainties in their minds about the issues they are asked to decide.

          Judge Nelson has not been presented with any difficult legal issues to decide and her decisions have been straight forward applications of the correct legal rule and not controversial in the legal sense.

          • Xena says:

            @Professor. Thank you, and thanks for addressing the federal procedure.

            They view oral argument as an opportunity to ask questions to clarify any uncertainties in their minds about the issues they are asked to decide.

            I remember Judge Nelson asking Attorney West questions about specifics, as though giving him opportunity to flesh out his motion. He was unable to give specifics for his reason to depose Attorney Crump.

    • Tzar says:

      She had the motions prior to the hearing and waited to hear any further arguments that might modify her conclusions from her research on the motions, they had nothing new
      so she ruled

  41. Jun says:

    I feel the most simple aspect of this is when you even look at officers, that they have to have a reasonable reason to question anyone and the people they question have a right not to answer

    The same aspect is applied to the deposition

    Omara had no valid reason

    West had no valid reason

    Therefore, their needed deposition was baseless, therefore not allowed

    Putting it in laymen’s terms for average folks like me =)

    • They cannot depose Crump because the information they seek is attorney-client work product that is privileged and shielded from disclosure.

    • Malisha says:

      The fools are still trying to “prove” that Fogen should not have been charged with a crime. Damn, it’s time they moved on towards reality. It’s gonna catch up with them whether they like it or not.

      • Xena says:


        The fools are still trying to “prove” that Fogen should not have been charged with a crime.

        From the beginning, they have not wanted GZ to be brought to an immunity hearing much less trial. The evidence against GZ, proving he did not kill in self-defense, blares clear and loudly, much of it from GZ’s own mouth. Zidiots lack knowledge of the legal system. The State is not about to dismiss the charge against GZ no matter how much Zidiots behave like spoiled, bully children.

  42. The bizarre thing about the suspicion that DD did not go to the hospital instead of the funeral is that it matters not whether she used that as an excuse for not being able to deal emotionally with a funeral or she actually went to the hospital.

    My response is so what?

    Seems like thinly disguised witness intimidation or an effort to find out if she really exists.

    Of course, an absence of a record would not be proof that she did not exist.

    At this point I am not sure that I can give them credit for realizing that.

    • Jun says:

      Am I correct in saying that she is allowed to deny the defense access to her personal records?

      I am guessing she can also refuse to give out her address to the defense out of personal safety issues

    • Trained Observer says:

      In additon, Ben Crump said she didn’t go the wake, which may have been a different occasion than the funeral. At some point, creating more confusion, a family member of Trayvon’s had said he met her at the funeral. l

    • ks says:

      Exactly. “99%” of their silly speculations about DD are a big “so what!?!” They are not relevant nor do they make sense but, though I find it remarkably inept, if they want to continue to waste time running down rabbit holes rather than properly preparing their case, go right ahead.

      • Xena says:


        Exactly. “99%” of their silly speculations about DD are a big “so what!?!”

        If DD had said she was depressed and didn’t brush her teeth for a week, the Zidiots would want her toothbrush tested.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Xena, you are absolutely right on. this is the most silliest things that I have ever witnessed. an attorney taking orders from a group of die hard racist in a murder case none the less. this case has brought out the worse of these people and, it’s a shame that there are still people such as these in this country.

        • Xena says:


          it’s a shame that there are still people such as these in this country.

          Indeed. Zidiots and O’Mara have a slave-Master relationship. He works for free while they tell him what to do.

  43. You all have thoughtful comments says:

  44. Malisha says:

    They’re acting like DeeDee is a defendant in a case called “People v. DeeDee” and the charge is “denying that Trayvon Martin was a Thug.” They’re out of control and it shows that their fantasy world is falling apart. I love this part. I love this part!

    • Jun says:

      Dont you just love how unfair they are making the trial for Trayvon, in their minds?

      Fogenhats is innocent till proven guilty and Trayvon the victim is guilty till proven innocent

      • leander22 says:

        Jun, take a look at the first comment on the open letter to Donald West, which illustrates a perfect kindergarten argument. A German word by the way meaning children’s garden or backyard.

        anyway the argument goes, since Benjamin Crump maligned poor Fogen, it is imperative to smear Trayvon. Notice it is always someone else’s fault, who started it.

        In other words it is necessary to smear Trayvon to get Fogen acquitted. It’s interesting since the argument basically ignores guilt, or guilt does not really matter. But it suggests to me that to an extend they are aware that it is only about manipulating people’s perception.

        • Xena says:


          In other words it is necessary to smear Trayvon to get Fogen acquitted.

          Yep — classic rapist defense strategy. Disparaged, humiliate, and threaten to have dirt exposed about the victim.

          GZ is claiming self-defense. He knew nothing about Trayvon, but Zidiot strategy is to argue that the victim deserved to be killed, not because of what he allegedly did, but because of their belief about the victim’s character.

          I keep saying, John Wayne Gacy argued that all of his victims were guys having problems with parents or male prostitutes. Gacy still got the needle.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Well they’re going to need more than just the wild claims of a few highly opinionated posters to manipulate my perception. A “rail skinny kid” with no combat training, no experience with any kind of fighting at all, who does not disrespect adults and has a vocation to strive for, is not going to be a good emotional fit to respond to fear with violence at all. My guess is Trayvon would have been remarkably upset to a sparrow get killed accidentally, forget about throwing a blow at an adult who out weighed him. He wouldn’t issue physical challenges to adults who didn’t outweigh himself, as I’m quite sure he’s had teachers who were lighter and shorter than himself, who he treated with nothing but the utmost respect.

          It is upon this kind of psychological profile that I base my view that, GZ had the superior advantage, before, during and, of course, after the encounter.

    • Rachael says:

      They are acting like evertone (including Trayvon) is a defendant – except the defendant!

    • Two sides to a story says:

      There comes a time when truth and justice cut through illusion and it seems we may be seeing this come to pass!

    • leander22 says:

      Malisha, first I noticed while re-listening to some Serino interviews, I still can’t help but somehow like this guy admittedly, that I was slightly mistaken. It is Serino that tells him the name: Trayvon Benjamin Martin. And Serino challenges him slightly later to utter the name after lecturing him that he wasn’t a coon, or a “suspect”.

      But to pick up on the “evil media” theme, obviously DeeDee and closely associated Crump are at the center. The whole evil black propagandists are simply a distraction, just as other threats that I remember vividly like the race riot threat. Making people afraid or fear feels the most perfect tool to manipulate them.

  45. xy11xy says:

    Been meaning to ask about this…

    Serino talked about a Facebook page where the NW was bragging about catching crooks, or something like that. They were using it to communicate with each other. I don’t recall seeing anything in doc dumps about a NW Facebook page.. Does anyone know about this?

    • ay2z says:

      I recall that from Serino’s interview, when he was about to have a little talk about the seriousness of the situation as ‘more than you might realize’, and that’s when, (iirc) Serino brought up the FB page and the ‘kudos’.

      Haven’t noticed it in the discovery but then we haven’t seen all the background info that Serino mentioned in that interview, have we? , The you wanted to ‘sue someone for spitting into your car’ incident, the chasing people with stolen tv’s from some store (shooter laughs). “yeah… I’m not coming in here without knowing about you’, Serino advises shooter.

      • ay2z says:

        ‘communicate with each other’– that could be an ongoing investigation, couldn’t it? They can investigate right up to trial, can’t they?

        • xy11xy says:

          ..I’m thinking investigator’s know exactly who’s on the NW. I’m betting W6 and maybe 13 are on it.

          I forgot about that other stuff you mentioned… There’s a whole lot we don’t know and I would LOVE to know what those Facebook convo’s were like!

      • leander22 says:

        ay2z, thanks for the hint. I wouldn’t have remembered it but it:

        It’s recording #4 Detective Serino’s Interview with George Zimmerman – Part 1 (2/29/2012)

        It starts slightly after 39:30, I wish I would understand the the Serino more perfectly. No idea what produces the background noises.

        But strictly the spitting incident or whatever Serino mentions may be related to an incident that puzzled me too or drew my attention. It shows GZ has a clear documented tendency to follow his perceived opponents.

        See the incident at Taaffe’s house 02/02/2012 (if remember correctly), where he follows his “suspect” and calls back, add to that another curious little item from his 911 call history on 8/12/2004 where he seems to follow a car. The last entry reads: COMP ADV NO LONGER FOLLOWING. If you read the whole log you will understand why I interpret this as complainant is no longer following. He is clearly following before and the above is a REM message. Before Leon Ciesla is dispatched and unable to catch up, since again GZ’s object of desire moves away, at that point even in a car. So in this case GZ seems to have stayed on the line with NEN/911 for slightly over 4 minutes while following the car.

        This call is the first in the whole series. Maybe because it drew Serino’s attention too.

        Hmmm? I remember I complained at the time that they were not quite chronological or were that the burglary reports.

        • manberk says:

          Thats interesting. “You like to get involved” is suggestive. Also note one of the last thing Serino says to him on that segment, “yeah, Im done with it, but its probably not done for you on other levels”. He also mentioned something about witnesses lying.

      • leander22 says:

        xy11xy, it feels to me that Batchelor and colleagues, for whatever reason I seem to remember mainly John Batchelor in this context, has asked all the witnesses if they knew either Trayvon or Fogen. If #13 and #6 did really know Fogen, but denied to know him, this would allow SPD to slip out easily. After all they could argue in that case they were tricked by witnesses.

        Wagner too claims to have gone around showing them his photos and asking if they knew either. As far as I remember only witness #3 (?) the white shirt lady in any case, admits to have known Fogen.

        On the other hand, yes I would have loved more information about NW, and we never got a copy of the NW missives or email information that clearly existed. See Brandy Green’s statements about a neighbor that seems to have received them. My basic impression was that the NW wasn’t very active. Or they denied to have done much for the obvious reasons when questioned. There are two ladies, I seem to remember from the second document dump, among them was a lady from Canada. (my memory may be faulty in this context)

        The only really interesting item in my storage and I lost my excerpts from the first and second discovery is the message on Leland Management’s twitter account where the NW watch (admittedly I am assuming Fogen) is boasting of having led to the arrest of four. That’s in connection with the Burgess story, the three were released again after questioning and only Burgess was arrested.

        Retreat @ Twin Lakes ‏@RTL_News Feb. 12, 2012

        Our Neighborhood Watch leads to four arrests in burglaries in the RTL. Great job!

        I was really disappointed in the interview of the Leland Management’s Kent Taylor, if I remember his name correctly, in this context.

        • manberk says:

          “Retreat @ Twin Lakes ‏@RTL_News Feb. 12, 2012

          Our Neighborhood Watch leads to four arrests in burglaries in the RTL. Great job”

          Yeah, there it is. He had absolutely nothing to do with these arrests. Says a lot about the guy and his desire for credit as a motive.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          After the way Wagner performed I wouldn’t trust anything he did.
          Oh, before I forget, we have a friend over at Half Wisdom Half Wit blog http://tinyurl.com/a6v8gqq If you’ve got a minute to spare give Mary a visit. There’s not too many posts but they’re filled with old information that needs updating. It’s very interesting to read thread that was written before much was known about the case. Enjoy.

    • Manberk says:

      @xy there may have been emails too. Really what I think we see if GZ trying to take credit for the arrest of Burgess even though he really didnt have anything to do with it. That was his ego.

      • leander22 says:

        Thanks, I agree. Absolutely my opinion.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Yeppers GZ is desperately in need of a success. He’s used to purloining things from others. He’s trying to steal Trayvon’s screams!
          But that won’t work because we know he did not scream “I’m begging you”.

      • xy11xy says:

        Didn’t he say his wife saw burglars running from someone’s home? If I recall, the person who identified the burglar who was caught was NOT Shellie.

  46. leander22 says:

    congratulations, Benjamin Crump, Blackwell was a very, very good choice. Just read his response to the latest West–I assume–motion. Clearly structured, brilliantly argued, besides a very good summary of the whole motion to compel brouhaha.

    thanks for the link Professor. 😉

    • gbrbsb says:


      Been meaning to ask you, your pic for some reason reminds me of either Lubitsch´s 1940s film “To be or not to be”, or Chaplin´s 1940 film, “The Great Dictator”… any thing close?

      • leander22 says:

        It’s Chaplin, gbrbsb. I shifted to the icon and the aka LeaNder, which I can’t use here, when some crazy conspiracy nut posted my complete name and address-block from a private mail exchange. I had quite a few troubles to finding it at the time. If I remember correctly it was on the Hebrew article on Wikipedia. But it is gone by now.

        I really love Chaplin and I admired his perfect imitation of Hitler’s odd little gesture when he had to do the Nazi salute. I have said this before. He may have been vaguely aware of the irony of greeting other’s by greeting himself. In German it is called the Hitlergruß Gruß or Gruss means Hitler salute.

        I love actors they are much more aware of body language than we normals are. The body is their main tool. The most funny thing I ever experienced was when they mirrored my “top-heaviness” physically back to me. I obviously wasn’t aware of it before.

        • gbrbsb says:

          So glad, because the image was so familiar to me that I thought it was one of them. Chaplin is also one of my favourites too, also as a director. But if you haven´t seen, it Lubitsch’s “To be or not to be” is also a great great classic of the b&w era and a very funny take on Hitler too.

      • leander22 says:

        Maybe it’s misleading to write it is Gruß or Gruss, strictly this “ß” is similar to two s’s but since the vowel is long in the word there can be no double s, you only find the two s after a short vowel.

    • leander22 says:

      I have to add a link to Don West’s peculiarly cloaked Motion Regarding Deposition of Benjamin Crump, Esquire.

      In a nutshell, his basic argument seems to be that Benjamin Crump should be deposed to get information about his having picked up the early rumors about Wolfinger having been on the crime scene that night and/or police corruption. Concerning the first I would advise them to depose e.g. Ann-Jo Reid of The Grio, who spread the rumors on Wolfinger on the crime scene on March 28, 2012 based on an inside source with knowledge of the investigation. Concerning a possible, even a bit apparent SPD protection of Fogen, well that is nothing but an impression he formed. So what would be it’s discovery value. Thus what do they really want from Crump?

      How does he know Benjamin Crump’s statements were based on “confidential matter or communication” and not media reports or general impressions he formed with his clients, the parents?
      And how can he waive his privileges by giving his impressions or picking up on rumors in “evil media”?

      2. A person who has privilege against disclosure of a confidential matter or communication waives the privilege if the person, or the person’s predecessor while holder of the privilege, voluntary discloses or makes the communication when he or she does not have a reasonable expectation of privacy, or consents to disclosure of, any significant part of the matter or communication. This section is not applicable when the disclosure is itself a privileged communication. Fla. Stat. § 90.507.

      I absolutely agree with Blackwell this somehow sticks out:

      The Court is urged to address this matter at its earliest convenience given the current discovery and trial schedule, and because in order to meaningfully depose several important witnesses, including Witness 8, Mr. Crump’s deposition must take place first.

      Whom else but Tracy Martin, Sybrina and Jahvaris Fulton? How and why could they be important witnesses on the case in any other way then insinuating the manipulated DD with the help of Benjamin Crump?

      I am very pleased with US law in this context.

      I also realize now, that much of the resentment against Crump may have to do with the fact that he is a very, very good lawyer, and thus even knows whom to choose if he needs to protect himself against transparent/intransparent attempts by defense.

    • leander22 says:

      Maybe that should be non-transparent.

  47. elcymoo says:

    @Lurker: I don’t think that witness 8 ever said that she had to be hospitalized. If I recall correctly, she said that she had to go to the hospital because her blood pressure had gone up. I think she might have been having an anxiety attack, but at any rate, if she went, she probably was just evaluated in the ER as an outpatient.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Ben Crump said in his affidavit that the young woman known as DD was upset about Trayvon’s death and, in fact, had been “unable to attend Trayvon’s wake because she had to go to the hospital.” He didn’t say for what, or that she was actually hospitalized. As you say, Elcymoo, she may have been treated as an outpatient.

      • Malisha says:

        She might not even have been treated. By the time you wait in the ER waiting room in a hospital, if you’re experiencing anxiety or something like that, you can just find yourself having calmed down in the two or three hours you sat still and tried to read the magazines on the tables. I had that happen once when I brought a friend into the ER because the triage in the ER was such that if you weren’t bleeding, you were waiting. After the two hours we waited for her to see medical personnel, she was breathing normally and felt much better and they gave her a 1-2-3 and let her go home. They didn’t even tell her to take two aspirins and call them in the morning. There is no significance to any of this stuff; O’Mara and West are indulging in theatricals because they have no case. It’s kind of an uh-oh for them, but it amounts to sound and fury signifying nothing.

      • Tee says:

        If indeed Mr. crump said “wake” and not furneral he may have been playing a game of semantics. African American hold a wake for the deceased the night before the furneral is to take place. So she could have attended the furneral but not the wake. MOM has yet to depose Dee Dee because he wanted to catch both her and Crump in a lie about this issue but the judge threw a monkey wrench in his plans when she said that he couldn’t depose Mr. Crump. They are trying to show a conspiracy between the two, and impeach them at the same time.

        • Xena says:


          African American hold a wake for the deceased the night before the furneral is to take place.

          Not always. Some wakes are held an hour before the funeral ceremony. Some are held the night before the funeral for those unable to take off work during the day. I’ve also seen visitations the night before, with the wake an hour before the funeral ceremony and internment the following day. But if Crump said “wake” then it wasn’t the “funeral.”

    • Donna Flores says:

      What does it matter if she went to the hospital or not. Just because she didn’t attend his funeral, which isn’t in the same city, doesn’t mean she wasn’t on the phone with Trayvon.
      I’m glad they are wasting time, and they will be unprepared for the big day.

      • Rachael says:

        Because a member of the family said the first time he met her was at the funeral (which she didn’t attend because she was at the hospital).

        • Xena says:


          Because a member of the family said the first time he met her was at the funeral (which she didn’t attend because she was at the hospital).

          In Black culture, “funeral” encompasses visitation and/or wake, the funeral ceremony, internment, and repast. It can be one day with each running into the other, or over 2 to 3 days.

          • jm says:

            I went to a primarily black memorial church service where the casket was in the church but there was no viewing. The visitation/viewing was held the day before at a funeral home. The internment at the graveyard was the next morning.

            I avoid visitation at the funeral homes because I want to remember the person alive, so maybe Dee-Dee did not want to be traumatized by viewing Trayvon’s body. I prefer memorial service because people talk about good memories of the deceased.

            Not saying all black funerals and/or memorials are this way but that has been my experience.

      • Malisha says:

        I doubt there’s any preparation they could do that would make the big day go well for them, at this point. Of course, they could try that changing clothes in a phone booth all over again, leap over a few tall buildings in single bounds, and like that. Or they could have a magnetic wave come and wipe out all records of the forensic evidence or something. Or maybe that eggplant that ate Chicago could eat Seminole County — or somepin. (shrug, smirk)

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Giant meteor? Dragons?

      • aussie says:

        @ Rachel, that was in an interview by Nancy Grace with a cousin. He said he met DeeDee at the funeral. Crump is accurate is saying she did not attend the WAKE.

        The funeral was in Miami. I don’t know if the wake was held before or after.

        It has nothing to do with what she heard on Feb 26.

    • groans says:

      I know from experience that profound grief can feel physically painful, too. I also know that I hadn’t yet learned, and didn’t understand, that sort of thing when I was 16 or 18 years old.

      I haven’t yet seen a motion for access to Witness 8’s medical records, but it sounds despicable, to me. That’s far too intrusive for a witness to have to tolerate, and I very seriously doubt her medical records are likely to lead to any admissible evidence.

      This defense is now looking downright crazy to me. Maybe they’re building a record for an ineffective assistance of counsel appeal? (Not a prudent or likely successful strategy.) Or maybe the motion hasn’t been filed, and hopefully won’t be?

    • Tee says:

      @ Xena we will not hold a wake the morning of the furneral out of respect for the love ones that is a very emotional day, it takes a lot for a family to ready themselves to bury their love We as blacks especially in Miami hold the wake then the furnerl last is the repast which follows the furneral. Being that African American can take up to two weeks to bury their love one the family will be visited almost daily durning this time greeted with food and or cards with financial gifts if needed. Your are right that it really doesn’t matter.

      • Xena says:


        @ Xena we will not hold a wake the morning of the furneral out of respect for the love ones that is a very emotional day,

        I understand. My family is diverse, and I’ve buried relatives White and Black, Christian and Muslim, local and in other states. Also learned that internment at Catholic cemeteries in Illinois can be different that internment, grave-site ceremonies at other cemeteries.

        The point is, when O’Mara and the Zidiots hear “wake” they should not assume it means “funeral.” Some cultures call “wake” visitation because they are not in a religion that that follows the tradition of holding a “wake.”

        Well, we already know that Zidiots are out of touch with reality and have no respect for culture and diversity, translating everything according to their limited life-experience.

  48. truthseeker66 says:

    Will there be a hearing for the request of DD’s medical records? Does anyone know why fogen’s cell phone records have not been released?

    • I imagine that the defense will note the motion for a hearing at the next scheduled hearing in early March, if not sooner. The prosecution certainly will oppose it, so there will have to be a hearing, unless the defense drops the request.

      Due to privacy concerns, none of the phone records will be released to the public. We won’t see what they have until the prosecution introduces them at trial or in the immunity hearing.

    • Nefertari05 says:

      Unless another unscheduled hearing is called, I guess they’ll hear it next Tuesday, on 3/5. Fogen’s cell records were exempted from public release, during an early media intervenors hearing, in late spring (iirc- it was the hearing which ended with the revocation of GZ bond and subsequent reincarceration). If I can find it on youtube, I’ll post a link. (Note: I can’t find full video, just small clips that show the bond revocation portion.)

      It went largely unnoticed because of the bond revocation, but the judge cited privacy concerns of the other parties making/receiving the calls/texts/etc, from fogen’s phone, due to the media scrutiny, threat alleged, etc. Basically, the same reasons why anonymous witnesses were to have ID redacted, and remain anonymous. The only thing Judge Lester released, regarding GZ’s phone, was a list of 911/NEN calls, made from GZ’s phone.

    • PYorck says:

      Does anyone know why fogen’s cell phone records have not been released?

      Back in June Judge Lester ruled that everyone’s cell phone records were exempt except for GZ’s police calls.

      (The bill that shows some basics of Trayvon’s phone records was released by the family earlier.)

  49. fauxmccoy says:

    following the trail of cracker crumbs as dropped by hansel and gretel (yes, i know that cracker crumbs lead directly to the CTH, but i do not have to follow that far)

  50. Trained Observer says:

    Trayvon Marton’s parents and Ben Crump are scheduled to be on CNN’s Piers Morgan tonight. Don’t know if it’s live or taped.

    Given Fogen’s history of inappropriately calling Corey’s office and calling into Barbara Walters’ View after he tried to shake her down for a resort stay and then stiffed her on his promised interview, what are the chances Fogen (or his nervy bro) will put in a suprise call Piers’ show tonight?

  51. I suspect the letter may dampen enthusiasm for contributing money to the defense.

    • Trained Observer says:

      Do the people coughing up money for their “cause” even know how to read?

    • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

      Not only will that letter, but on one of his threads SD actually got into it with a very well known Fogen supporter (Nettles), and actually posted their disagreeing comments. It was her concern that people will not donate if he writes threads about dividing the defense and keeps bashing MOM. I guess she realized that SD has a hard-on for MOM and Crump.

      I still think it’s ridiculous how all of them(Fogen supporters) think that there is this big conspiracy involving SPD, Corey, Crump and anybody else that doesn’t believe Fogen. All political in their eyes. It’s sad that the defense, mostly West, is obviously heading down that same path. That is why, IMO, SD likes West so much. Personally, I think West makes a fool of himself in court each and every time he speaks.

      So, I hope that what you suspect does happen because I really find it troubling that Fogen has raised that much money as it is. I honestly don’t believe that it comes from caring people who feel he is innocent. I believe with all my being, that 90% of his donations come from people with pure hatred for Afro Americans and those that are pro NRA .

      • looneydoone says:

        Nettles has left the treehouse. She and sundance cracker came to an* agreement * that she’d no longer post there.
        …and another rat leaves the sinking ship
        pity, that 😉

      • Malisha says:

        Who is SD?

      • stevie g. says:

        SD (sundance) also insulted me in a post regarding attorney-client privilege by telling me to “learn up.” Yet he did not like getting it back. Talk about a strangely paranoid individual. Anyone who disagrees with him gets kicked off, or “agrees to leave.” Sure.

        He has a fundamental misunderstanding of a/c privilege and keeps trying to pierce that to support his bizarre theory of MOM being responsible for gz’s lie about the paypal account. It is highly unlikely gz will ever give up that privilege.

        He really thinks the root of the the problem is MOM.

        But here is the issue: GZ, in the jail house tapes, specifically tells his friend to keep MOM in the dark regarding the “quantity,” i.e., the amount of money there. He also tells his friend that he told MOM he tried to move $37K but that he couldn’t because if was over the $10K limit.

        And from that we are to assume that MOM is responsible for everything.

        So since it is obvious that gz did not divulge the true extent of his holdings to MOM, why on earth would MOM be responsible for gz lying to the court? There is absolutely no evidence that MOM knew the true extent of the paypal account or even how it worked. He immediately tooks steps to set that account up as a trust in order to pay legal fees and living expenses, and that was his understanding of the account from the beginning.

        Another problem with SD’s bizarre theory is that gz was talking about being declared indigent. But no application of indigency was ever made. It was for a bail hearing. So there is a disconnect there that seems to fly over SD’s head.

        To now attack lead defense counsel at this late stage is counter-productive IMHO. The lash out at anyone who dares to disagree with him just results in the best and most intelligent leaving, resulting in the reverend preaching to his choir.

      • Tzar says:

        @stevie g
        mom knew enough that he knew that Shellie was lying and he knew his client was nowhere near eligibility for indigence

      • leander22 says:

        Malisha, sundance is an “interesting” character, look at “the coded message” in his headline .

        I know this case is followed by many people. (Heck, it would blow your mind if you knew the names of the people, famous people, who are seriously *in tune* with every nuance of this case, but will not speak/write about it due to the potential for incredible backlash) I also know there is a very real and potential risk of financial retreat from supporters to Mr. Zimmerman if the defense issues are outlined with too much specificity.

        Now what is it, it is all politics with poor Fogen as a scapegoat or if defense issues are too clearly outlined support will diminish? If if it all only a political campaign and he is not guilty how could that be?

        But basically count me among the skeptics concerning this narrative:

        Conversely, Mr. Don West is a man of courage and principle. He has put his career on hold, heck, he quit his paying job, to join the defense of George Zimmerman as a matter of deeply held principle and belief.

        I don’t get one sentence out of my head, that there will be more than enough money for GZ’s defense, the blog article is gone by now. Remember the guy I email-wise introduced you to? In one of the prison calls Fogen talked about the mystery sponsors and that O’Mara wanted to talk to them. I somehow doubt West works for free. For free in the shadow of O’Mara? To the extend he gives up his job? Very, very unlikely it feels.

        Yesterday he started to experiment with password protection, meaning there will be posts restricted to the CTH community in the future.

  52. lurker says:

    BTW–I saw that the judge also turned down a request to subpoena a huge chunk of Witness 8’s medical records.

    Pretty nervey of them to ask, when they got all in a huff about their own client’s medical records–which might have shed some light on medications, diagnoses, historyu of injuries and dhte like.

    • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

      lurker- Why would the defense think that they would get witness 8’s medical records? What would they want them for…to make the treehouse happy? I know that they think that she lied about going to the hospital and make fun of her for why she went, not even knowing if she went or why she went since they don’t know who she is! Good grief.
      Where did you see a subpoena from the defense requesting witness 8’s medical records? I haven’t seen this or a denial from Judge Nelson. Which site is it on? TIA

      • ladystclaire says:

        I think I read something on witness 8’s medical records being wanted by the defense on Ben Justice for Trayvon Crump’s facebook page last night. I was wondering why it was that they thought they had a right to this person’s medical records. they shouldn’t be allowed any part of her medical records. just like they think Fogen should have these people’s addresses while his where abouts remain unknown.

        This has really turned into one of the most insensitive murder cases ever in this country, all because a group of white racist have chosen to run the defense for the accused and, what is even worse, the defense is allowing this to happen.

      • aussie says:

        There was a rumour around at CTH and HuffPo months ago that went like this:
        DD once went to hospital
        therefore DD may have had an abortion
        therefore Trayvon was a (at the very least statutory) rapist
        which just proves what a thug he was.
        Alternately if it wasn’t his then she’s a hoe so not a credible witness.

        This was before they decided it’s better if she doesn’t exist at all.

    • amsterdam1234 says:

      Where did you see that?

      • lurker says:

        Apparently I was wrong, the judge hasn’t ruled on that one yet. From OS:

        It’s not clear what the judge will do about an even more intrusive request filed by defense attorneys Thursday: They’ve asked for all medical records about her for a six-week stretch following Trayvon’s death.

        That’s apparently to check a story that she was unable to attend his funeral because she was in the hospital.


      • lurker says:

        Seems like 6 months is a pretty broad overreach if they are only wanting to confirm where she was at one particular time and day.

      • leander22 says:

        lurker, overreach seems to be a standard by now, remember the two hours credit card information from 711 that the defendant needed and got? Do they honestly think we don’t know what they are looking for if they expand the time span?

        Besides West didn’t even get the date right of the oooh so important supposedly witnessed statement by Tracy Martin about the screams. Why didn’t Serino put this detail into his ROI next to the statement “it was determined” that GZ cried? It would have supported “the determination” after all. Only a couple of days later he wrote an update adding a photo of Tracy Martin and Brandy Green with timestamps as evidence. Proof for what? A visual proof for an acoustic statement?

    • lsimon3321 says:

      REALLY? I never read them asking for w8’s medical records. That is nervy. He was not drugged/alcohol tested that night and he sure sounded “slurry” to me (Shruck).

      • Malisha says:

        It’s all part of the “sideshow.” I expect that none of the crap they are hooting and hollering about will ever get into the trial because not only is it all conjecture, hearsay and just plain made-up idiotic diatribes, but it’s also utterly irrelevant and, as Perry Mason used to say, “irrelevant, incompetent and immaterial.” Judge Nelson is not going to let ringleader West go prancing around on his zebras at trial and she’s NOT gonna let O’Mara pronounce as “undisputed” facts that are not in evidence and she’s NOT gonna lose her control of her courtroom. They’re in fantasy-land, and probably because where else could they possibly find their client?

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          As a general rule, winnable cases don’t spend much time in the national spot light, but we have seen cases like this before, where the defense has slim to no prospects of winning for various reasons. In those cases they act just as these attorney’s are acting now, they talk to the public about irrelevant and immaterial things attempting to cast them as exculpatory facts, when in fact, they aren’t even going to be submitted at trial, because the foundation cannot be built.

          Who is there to say that GZ had an “indisputably broken nose”? Obviously there is no one. The only person qualified to make such a finding, has not seen anything sufficient to support it. So, the best he can say is “I suspected” or “it was likely”. Then that picture that LLMPapa found, of GZ carrying sunglasses around the station the next day, will be, an as strong if not stronger indication that his nose was just fine.

          Show that picture to the doctor who’s trying to claim a likely broken nose, and he’s likely to draw a very sharp breath at the least. Most likely he’ll simply admit that he could have been mistaken, which is why he ordered the further investigation which was not carried out.

          MOM ‘n’ West know they have nothing to submit that is not compromised. Worse, what they might have found was compromised by none other than their client himself! All they can do is go along for the ride. They’ve been agitating for dollars at the cost of their appearance as capable professionals. Not a good thing for the long run.

    • thejbmission says:

      BTW–I saw that the judge also turned down a request to subpoena a huge chunk of Witness 8′s medical records.

      Sure..give it to them. “One month before and one month after”

  53. lurker says:

    I don’t know that I am competent to judge whether O’Mara or West make the better representative. However, in checkin up on progress today, I did note that O’Mara took the time to post three critiques of opinion pieces by Jonathon Capehart. Frankly, I have generally found Mr. Capehart’s comments to be pretty well reasoned and based on facts. One of the recent columns that O’Mara took exception to is one in which he not onlly defended his use of a picture of Trayvon that was about 6-7 months old, but also debunked a picture being circulated (and was sent to him) that is a known rap artist, much older than Trayvon and wiiht multiple very obvious tattoos wholly inconsistent with those in the coroner’s report.

    The fact that O’Mara, this late in the game, sees himself has having reason to quibble this things in public not only calls into question his many calls to try the case in court not the public, but also makes one wonder if he doesn’t have something more pertinent to be occupired with.

    • Trained Observer says:

      So maybe MOM oughta stick to his knitting and try defending his scummy client for a change?

    • jason goodman says:

      Someone sent him a picture of “Game” A rapper from compton lol.. #propaganda Game is 33/yo

      • ladystclaire says:

        In reference to the photo of Game the rapper, are these people this stupid to think that was Trayvon in that photo. O’Mara should have the photo of Trayvon from the coroner’s office. you know the one with the tear on his little cheek, where he cried as he begged this murderer for his life. as I’ve said before, this attorney makes Baez look like a sitting judge.

    • Tzar says:

      can’t wait for him to list Capeheart as a defense witness and enter picture of Trayvon @ 16 yo into evidence.

    • gbrbsb says:

      Good article the one about the rap artist.

    • xy11xy says:

      First thing I thought was how the heck does he find time to be reading editorials, let alone responding to them.

      I think the defense is trying to inflame the black community. If there are African Americans marching in the streets, that inflames Conservatives. And when Conservatives are inflamed, they DONATE!

      In the end, none of it will matter. George will be convicted and donor’s money will have been squandered.

      • Cercando Luce says:


      • Two sides to a story says:


      • lsimon3321 says:

        I hope that those who end up on the jury see things as you and I do. I hope they see these maneuverings as just that: maneuverings. I hope they recognize that there has never been anything, including money, to keep the defense from proving their case. It’s ridiculous for the defense to sit around and expect the prosecution to give them everything they need to defend their client. GZ should have DEMANDED a SYG hrg at the beginning. I think his refusal to do so is indicative of his personal knowledge of his guilt.

      • leander22 says:

        First thing I thought was how the heck does he find time to be reading editorials, let alone responding to them.

        Remember the two rows of benches he will need for his staff at the trial? That was the topic at the end of the last hearing. There are many ways to monitor topics. The easiest way would be to use Google alerts e.g. with “George Zimmerman” and “Trayvon Martin”. They may have even purchased more professional solutions. I guess the filtering out is the task of the interns or other cheap or free helpers…

        This is an interesting passage:

        Here’s where we can agree with Mr. Capehart: the tweet quoted and the sentiment expressed is revolting. We can also agree that conversation about this case, particularly online conversation, can very quickly turn ugly, angry, and racist. What Mr. Capehart doesn’t address is that the hate and racism comes from all sides of the debate, and for every disgusting quote he can show us suggesting “Trayvon Martin got what he deserved,” we can show two quotes that suggest George Zimmerman deserves to be raped in prison or that someone should kill him before trial.

        We follow the online conversation about this case very closely, and we feel most of the people who write these ugly things don’t mean them literally. We won’t speak specifically for Todd Kincannon, and we do not deny that there are unrepentant racists commenting on this case — from both sides — but for the most part, we believe these comments come from a place of frustration and anger.

        In regards to George, if you feel that George profiled Trayvon Martin because of race, then it is natural for you to ascribe to George all the anger you have ever felt as a result of being racially profiled yourself. Very few people actually know George, but many people think of George Zimmerman as the manifestation of the racism they have encountered in their lives, and while their feelings are understandable, they are also misplaced.

        In regards to Trayvon Martin, remember that a public relations firm was hired to draw national media attention to the shooting, and there was a selective presentation made of Trayvon Martin’s character. It turns out the presentation was not the whole story, and many people who bought into the initial mischaracterization of the case felt betrayed as details emerged. Many feel the “race card” is being played at the expense of George’s right to due process, and they, in turn, feel threatened themselves. The anger they feel is understandable, but it is also misplaced when directed at the memory of Trayvon Martin.

        O’Mara has turned into the most perfect rumor machine you can imagine. The reason why he is hated by CTH is that he is only hinting in their direction or in the direction of the larger camp supporting Zimmerman. But O’Mara’s target is the average citizen not the CTH camp, his more enlightened supporters.

        This is sinister enough for me, since he actually claims the image of Trayvon Martin was artificially produced. His supporters know he now has Martin’s school records they do not need more than it “now turns” out. The rest may not be informed well enough so he least will leave a trace of doubt.

        This is a very subtle argument that never quite shows “his color”, notice too, that for every bad statement concerning Trayvon there are two concerning Fogen. I doubt there is an empirical basis for that. But who cares?

    • Jun says:

      There’s actually a crazy racist on facebook right now threatening to start a race war with blacks if Fogenhats is convicted

  54. Malisha says:

    “Opposing” can mean “representing an adverse party” even though in this particular [criminal] action, only the prosecutor, representing the state itself, is actually THE opposing counsel. I would have thought that both West and O’Mara not only understood this principle but also had some ethical concern with the idea that they could jump into any attorney’s confidential relationship with any client. What has amazed me is the bizarre unprofessional stances repeatedly taken by both defense counsel! Surely their colleagues in Florida will be noticing that — or does that actually ENHANCE a lawyer’s reputation in that state (consider but perish the thought — it might be true!)?

  55. Thanks Professor…I’m hearing the CTH is blowing a gasket!

    • cielo62 says:

      I could hear it loud and clear! I liked where some guy there was so angry that MOM didn’t press the issue about the non existent DD. Sure, let West take over. He can’t change the evidence any more than MOM can.

    • gbrbsb says:

      It seems a few at TalkLeft are in a bit of a tis about the hearing and JN´s denials too.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Many people don’t even bother to post over there any more because JM tends to dust people who don’t agree with her interpretation of case evidence. She has a few Treestumpers left in her echo chamber.

    • Malisha says:

      Of course. A judge is not allowed to rule in a way they don’t like, any more than Trayvon Martin was allowed to walk in a way that Fogen didn’t like. It stands to reason. We are dealing with the masters of the universe over there. Bwa ha ha ha ha!

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Sounds like they’re really imploding over there. I wondered how long that would take. And they’re still blaming everything and everyone for how the case is proceeding, refusing to see the handwriting on the wall..

    • stevie g. says:

      the nuttiest thing about the letter to West, is that, in SD’s dream, West takes over as the judge. He may now direct his questioning to BDLR and Crump and anyone else he deems fit. Here is someone who hasn’t a clue about CrimPro.

      It is quite clear what is Her Honor’s intent–to get on with it. And in that sense, she is doing a good job.

      I think MOM telegraphed that he is considering an appeal of the ruling when he asked for a copy. If not being able to depose Crump would cause irreparable harm, he might be able to appeal. But chances are he intends to use it in a later appeal if necessary.

      It was interesting that he has considered appealing any adverse ruling from the immunity hearing, even as a ploy to gain more time to prepare for trial.

      This case really does seem to be on the fast track, for better or for worse.

      • lsimon3321 says:

        That’s what I see: a collection of documents to prepare for appeal. I don’t believe they believe they are going to win the SYG/SD hrg or murder trial. They hope to win on appeal like they did on getting rid of the prior judge.

      • Tzar says:

        I think MOM telegraphed that he is considering an appeal of the ruling when he asked for a copy.

        He can telegraph all he wants
        the good judge has gone 100% formal with him; spelling out all her actions on the record. She could have simply denied their lame request to depose Crump with one word because it was so lame, but she took care to read out her logic and supporting cases. She’s got O’Mara’s number and I suspect that Lester gave her the 411 on the dastardly duo.

      • leander22 says:

        I wish I had a bit more knowledge of American sports terms. Since my knowledge in this field is rather limited, I will use a translation of the German term I most often use in this context.

        I think Blackwell gave her a deep forward pass for her own ruling on the issue. It will be very interesting to read her argument.

        I am offered by the way for a deep (forward) pass (football) these terms in English:

        fit occasion
        point of attack
        to hand on a plate (which I am getting slightly tired of)
        to furnish somebody a fit occasion.

        I would like to stay much more closely with the appropriate term from sports, but I am not sure if I can use the one I used or if it fits my argument. 😉

      • groans says:

        @ stevie g. re:

        I think MOM telegraphed that he is considering an appeal of the ruling when he asked for a copy.

        I don’t doubt that MOM is considering all appeal options, as you suggest. But just for clarification, since it’s kinda funny:

        At the hearing, O’Mara asked the judge for a copy of what she was looking at and reading from during the hearing. Her answer: “NO.” She told him those were HER NOTES, and that she would write an order.

        All the participants will get a copy of her order, after she finalizes it. (I never heard of a lawyer asking for a judge’s notes!)

        Nice try, O’Mara!

    • Of the many repulsive statements made by the outhouse gang, one that they are repeating now (posted by: rumpole2) is: “If only Trayvon had kept his hands in his pockets, none of this would have happened.” There have been variations of this…If Trayvon would have only stayed home….If only Trayvon would have gone straight home….If only Trayvon…..It’s always Trayvon’s fault for getting himself killed and causing trouble for fogen…. I hope all the nastiness at the outhouse site causes them to self-destruct and “burn to the ground”…..

      • Xena says:

        @grey winter sky. Here’s some tag lines:
        “If Trayvon had only had a gun, he could have protected himself when he was attacked.”

        “40 cents and a gun. $40.00 and Skittles and iced tea. Which one is most likely to be the thug?”

        “George Zimmerman has a court ordered curfew of 6 p.m. because after that time, everyone looks suspicious to him.”

      • Tzar says:

        (posted by: rumpole2) is: “If only Trayvon had kept his hands in his pockets, none of this would have happened.” There have been variations of this…If Trayvon would have only stayed home….If only Trayvon would have gone straight home….If only Trayvon…..It’s always Trayvon’s fault for getting himself killed and causing trouble for fogen….

        oh if only if….they could place the burden on the person acting illegally, acting from sanctuary, acting with the first anr most likely only aggression…oh if only if

        it’s time to plainly accept that the smarmy people who say things like what you posted above are too ignorant on the matters of the case, too crazy or too evil, to dignify with a response, and that they say what they say, for the very effect it had on you, to hurt.

      • Malisha says:

        It’s their own fault Trayvon didn’t (IF he didn’t) keep his hands in his pockets. They need to get on the stick and make their legislature pass a bill that says African Americans must walk with their hands in their pockets at all times and if approached by whites, Afro-Peruvians or persons of the American Race, they must immediately give their code and assure the approaching person that they intend to keep their hands in their pockets. That would easily solve the problem. Also save money on hollowpoint bullets. Damn, why didn’t THEY think of that? 😈

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