Sunday, February 24, 2013
Good afternoon to everyone.
Thanks to all who commented regarding my post about declining civility and slipping from the high road. I wanted everyone to take a moment to consider their part in the decline and resolve to return to the high road.
Because this is an emotional case and we are a blog, I think we should feel free to express our emotions from time to time as the spirit moves us. There is, however, such a thing as getting carried away and I do not want to see the house degenerate into insults, name-calling, and attacks on each other.
This is not a war zone or a church.
I think Aussie expressed my concern with this comment:
How will “venting” your dislike/hatred do anything for Trayvon or his memory?
If name calling is your main purpose, how are you better than the “other side” who call names all day?
The two guys who first brought this up, Whonoze and unitron, almost got accused of being GZ supporters for it. But their point isn’t that they don’t want to hear poor George being called bad names. They don’t want to hear everyone here, people they’re on one side with and respect, they don’t want US engaged in that kind of name calling and hatred spewing.
It’s a matter of taking the high ground — no, of remaining on the high ground we started out on — to speak for a dead child who can’t speak for himself. And a matter of not letting feelings take over, to the detriment of looking at facts and reality.
It’s not to protect GZ from being called names, he probably deserves it. It’s to warn you against becoming a hate-spewing name-caller, you ARE better than that.
The Outhouse mob have heaps of solidarity through hatred…..is that what we should emulate here? The main solidarity here is, or used to be, support for Trayvon’s side of the story; the shared dislike or disgust with his killer was a side issue. It should stay that way.
We are a family and no useful purpose is served by calling out anyone when at one time or another everyone, including me, has crossed the line.
The line, of course, is invisible and varies according to individual perception. I suppose it’s more of a feeling than an actual line.
Freedom of expression enhances creativity. Having fun enhances learning. All life is rife with ambiguity and there is something within us that rebels against a rule.
My goal is to maintain a welcoming place where everyone feels safe to express their thoughts and feelings without fear of attack.
If anyone wants to know what I do not want this place to become, go and observe the dialogue at the CTH or HP.
Freedom of expression too often serves as an excuse to let loose our meaner instincts.
Respect for others, self-reflection, and a willingness to adjust are elegant signs of wisdom, maturity and grace. They are not signs of capitulation to authority and convention.
Respect this house for it is your house and not a junior high school playground.
Be aware that your words can wound and guard against becoming what you despise.
Resist your meaner instincts and own what you say.
This is a good place and we are better because of it.
Let’s keep it that way.
We are two days distant from the first anniversary of Trayvon’s death.
What does it mean to you?
Frederick Leatherman Law Blog 
SheLie and Miss Piggy…..can’t tell ’em apart
@Racer
No more time outs, you are all out Mister! LOL
I’m just repeating what the parrot said.
@Racer
LOL š
It’s done.I saved both versions, then took my sleeping pill and ‘m, here just trying to suvive thrtestooomanmy lettersson the keyboardgame. Whta a thrill help me to bed.
http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/year-anniversary-of-trayvon-martin-death/vrtbh/
about tonight’s plans video includes footage from last year’s candlelight vigil in the Sanford park, mentions nation wide candle lighting for tonight.
That’s wonderful. Who would have thought where this would be today a year ago.
That didn’t last long…..seems last night the “Open Letter” got closed off…….and I spent all that time “analyzing” it to.
Yep, the letter is gone….outta here, vamoose……..yanked….no more…
Think it was something we said ???? …………………Naaaaaaaaa !
I love the smell of retracted letters in the morning……..smells like.
………….Victory !!
While Wagner’s “Flight of the Valkyries” plays in the background……..
@Racer
Excellent job Racer. You are the man! Steel, baby, steel.
I guess they can’t take criticism. Maybe it was something we said.
Too bad we didn’t save a copy to post somewhere and spread links to it all over the net š think that would make them say OMG?
@Lonnie
Alot of OMG’s !!!
Well… Let’s be prepared to not let them hide their own stupidity so easily if we can catch it. Hey, didn’t racer leave us a copy when he critiqued it? How complete was that copy? Maybe just delete the remarks and put the thing back together? Wouldn’t they shudder to see it appear back on their blog? Hahaha… “The letter from hell that just won’t go away!” š
uhhhhh Let me see.
@Lonnie
Racer is prolly busy in the shop, and that’s good for business.
But I think I might find it around here somewhere. If not I can get it from him later.
We wouldn’t want to disappoint them now, now would we? hahahahahah
Here is the letter….Next up a critique !
Dear Mr. West,
It is an unknown variable how much of the case background you were technically aware of prior to your entry into this case. It is also an unknown variable as to the nature of your relationship with Mark OāMara, and whether it is in fact more than professional? However, it is well-known to interested observers that you are the primary researcher/investigator of the defense.
Your partner sucks.
Not only is he professionally compromised, known by many within the courthouse circuit to be a fibber and āstretcher of truthā, and concerned more about his selfish ego than the protection of his client, your client, ā but he is also smarmy and truth adverse.
Being truth adverse might be a keen professional benefit for lawyered types when representing guilty folks, or those who might be guilty; But itās a horrid professional trait when defending the innocent because truth is supposed to be on your side.
So what does that mean?
Quite simply, it means that you, Don West, are the only hope that George Zimmerman has.
With that in mind, and considering the presentation before Judge Nelson on Friday 2/22/12 ā You really dropped the ball regarding the motion to depose Benjamin Crump.
You, and we, know that witness #8 is a fraud and a guise ā with a specific narrative created by Benjamin Crump. We, and you, also know the key to deconstructing that fraudulent narrative is the disinfecting sunlight of truth through discovery.
When Judge Nelson denied the motion to compel deposition under the precept of Benjamin Crump being āopposing counselā, and all such descriptives as defined by referenced precedent in law, you should:
a) have expected it, and b) have had a pre-plan to use such a ruling to your advantage.
Remind the court that by offering Benjamin Crump the protections codified within statute and prior case referenced conditions -saved only for prosecuting counsel- she is simultaneously then attaching all of his behaviors, conduct, and actions to the State Prosecutorial team.
In essence, if Nelson is going to protect Crump āas ifā he is the state prosecutor, then you should present your counter points as if the āstateā is now responsible for the behavior of Crump:
Your honor, if you are going to use, and afford, referenced case-law to protect the non-party Crump from deposition, thereby assigning him a new status of central party or conjoined counsel with the state, it is prudent to ask the State Prosecutor Mr. Bernie De La Rionda if he accepts such distinctions?
Secondly, and as a consequence of such acceptance, if such distinctions are now accepted by the State, will the state clarify for the record why they specifically and intentionally have erroneously misled the court -and the accused- with regard to the identity of Witness #8.
Mr. Crump, and now by your honorās extension, āThe Stateā, have presented and portrayed the witness to be a āminor childā of 16-years-age on March 19th 2012. Simultaneously, the same State is now presenting the identity of this witness to be 19 years old on February 22nd of 2013 ā A seemingly irreconcilable difference.
Previously, Mr. Crump presented through his counsel, Mr. Blackwell, an affidavit to the court noting that at the time of initial discovery for witness #8 (March 19th 2012) she was a minor, and further she was never asked, nor voluntarily gave her last name.
Additionally, not only was Witness #8 not asked her name, but she was not asked her address or other such identifying characteristics.
Lastly, according to the same sworn affidavit presented to the court, Mr. Crump, who is now by your judicial interpretation -a member of the state prosecutorial team- has claimed to have had no further contact with the Witness after March 19th.
If Mr. Crump never asked for her name, and the witness was identified by her age of 16, and he had no further contact with her after their March 19th conversation, then how can the State assert it was the same witness who was later interviewed on April 2nd and physically presented herself to be 18-years-of age?
If Mr. Crump is now a representative of the State, and the State is to be taken at their word to be truthful and honest, then how can this be reconciled?
Would this not represent a fair question that can only be answered by the same person or persons who presented her, through her sworn affidavit, to this court -which subsequently led to the arrest of my client?
Is the court now affirming that it is permissible for the ākeyā and āprimaryā stateās witness to be hidden or sheltered from questioning? And how can the State, or by extension this court, affirm to the accused that the identity of the person they will provide for deposition be the same person either party, Mr. Crump or Mr. De La Rionda have interviewed?
The accused is being restricted from any identifying āanyā characteristics of Witness #8 such as her address, despite the fact that the state has presented differing and actual physical accounts of this same witness.
By granting Mr. Crump the protections of opposing counsel from deposition, the court is now restricting the accused from knowing, with certainty, the identity of his accuser ā and simultaneously putting a road block in the quest for truth and justice by allowing the State to avoid having to reconcile the differing accounts of her personage.
Is this your honorās intent?
Great I’ve taken a copy myself.
Now all we need is it’s pedigree as close as it’s possible to construct. date, time, who posted, blog etc. and we’re ready to go.
That covers it.
Here ya go…..don’t lose it now.
Lets have some fun !!
Dear Mr. West,
āIt is an unknown variable how much of the case background you were technically aware ofā¦..ā
It should simply be āIt is unknown to us, how muchā¦.ā
ā..technicallyā¦.ā A hahahahaha how about āā¦were aware of..ā
āIt is also an unknown variableā¦.ā āvariableā again ?
āā¦as to the nature of your relationship with Mark OāMara, and whether it is in fact more than professional?ā
A āvariableā¦..relationshipā¦ā
Are you suggesting they are gay ?? or just friends ?
āHowever, it is well-known to interested observers that you are the primary researcher/investigator of the defense.ā
Prove it AND. who cares ?? you need a space between the / mark.
āYour partner sucks.ā
At least was all agree on that one, not to mention what a class letter this is turning out to be.
āNot only is he professionally compromised,ā¦ā
Huh ?? āincompetentā maybe compromised would be
āI have pictures of a naked Oā Mara and a hookerā
āā¦.known by many within the courthouse circuit to be a fibber and āstretcher of truthāā¦.ā
āfibberā Now thatās telling āem !
āstretcher of truthā use ā ā not ā ā
āā¦. ā but he is also smarmy and truth adverse. āsmarmyā Naa !
āā¦truth adverseā¦ā Seriously, youāre making this up as you go along, you do know that.
āā¦..for lawyered typesā¦ā ālawyered typesāā¦Okay !!
Professorā¦were you ever a ālawyered typeā
āā¦when representing guilty folks, or those who might be
guilty; ā¦.ā
Big Difference there gang
āBut itās a horrid professional traitā¦ā¦ā¦ā¦ā
You guys said he was the best in the business 6 months ago !
āSo what does that mean?ā
āQuite simply, it means that you, Don West, are the only hope that George Zimmerman has.ā
I peed my pants when I read that line.
āā¦ You really dropped the ballā¦ā A new legal term ?
āā¦with a specific narrative created by Benjamin Crump.ā
Before it was a ārandom narrativeā Make up your minds
āā¦is the disinfecting sunlight of truth through discovery.ā
ādisinfecting sunlightā Really ??
āWhen Judge Nelson denied the motionā¦ā¦.you should:ā¦ā
a) have expected it, and b) have had a pre-plan to use such a ruling to your advantage.
Ahahahahahahahahahahahaha Tell us how āDeniedā gets used to you advantageā¦.This I have to hear.
āā¦pre-planā another new legal term ??
Oh and they did expect itā¦so throw a) out.
āRemind the court that by offering Benjamin Crumpā¦. blah, blah, boring blahā¦..ā
Hey this would actually be c)
āYour honor, if you are going to use, and afford,ā¦ā¦ā
When told āTell it to the Judgeā that means only if youāre the defendant ā¦ā¦.not some internet racist blogger, we thought you actually knew that.
āā¦clarify for the record why they specifically and intentionally have erroneously misled the court -and the accused- with regard to the identity of Witness #8.ā
Nothing of the sort was doneā¦.Freaking Liar !!
āMr. Crump, and now by your honorās extension, āThe Stateā, have presented and portrayed the witness to be a āminor childā of 16-years-age on March 19th 2012. Simultaneously, the same State is now presenting the identity of this witness to be 19 years old on February 22nd of 2013 ā A seemingly irreconcilable difference.ā
Quote meā¦Never, everā¦piss of the Judgeā¦.ever. I donāt recall 19 ever being mentioned, but I could be wrong
āof 16-years-age on March 19th 2012. Simultaneously, the sameā¦.ā
This should be āā¦of 16-years of age on March 19th 2012, (coma) while simultaneously, the sameā¦.ā
ā A seemingly irreconcilable difference.ā
Have you read / heard / seen any of the defendants stuff ??
That āirreconcilableā text book I might add !
āā¦.she was never asked, nor voluntarily gave her last name.ā
Really, like youād actually leave her alone !
āAdditionally, not only was Witness #8 not asked her name, but she was not asked her address or other such identifying characteristics.ā
Sheās over 3 feet tall and under 8 feet tall happy ??
āLastly, according to the same swornā¦ā¦ā¦ā¦ā
This is a bold faced lie. There is a lot of shit after thisā¦.ālastlyā is a lie.
āIf Mr. Crumpā¦ā¦. lots of blah, blah, boring inane blahā¦and physically presented herself to be 18-years-of age?ā
I now physically present myself as ageā¦ā¦..
āIf Mr. Crump is now a representativeā¦.. then how can this be reconciled?ā
There is nothing to reconcileā¦..did you learn a new word ??
āWould this not represent a fair questionā¦ā¦blah, blah, more boring blah,ā¦ā
Nopeā¦..itās not a valid topic, let alone one needing reconciliation. Are you just looking for an āIām sorryā like this
āIs the court now affirming that it is permissible for the ākeyā and āprimaryā stateās witness to be hiddenā¦..ā boring blah
See, he lied, that was not āLastlyā aboveā¦.
āThe accused is being restricted from any identifying āanyā characteristics of Witness #8 such as her address, despite the fact that the state has presented differing and actual physical accounts of this same witness.ā
I kid you not āā¦any identifying āanyāā¦.ā
āanyā in quotes ?? you mean āWe want her address so we can torment herā not ā..such as..ā
āā¦differing and actual physical accounts of this same witness.ā
Duhhhhh what the F is that sentence structure about ??
Where the heck is that physical account of my witness ??
āBy granting Mr. Crump the protections of opposing counsel from deposition, the court is now restricting the accused from knowing, with certainty, the identity of his accuser ā and simultaneously putting a road block in the quest for truth and justice by allowing the State to avoid having to reconcile the differing accounts of her personage.ā
Tell ya what Crackerā¦.let us have Fogens address, Iāll provide security for Dee Dee and itās āGame Onā
āā¦reconcile..ā again ?? reallyā¦?
āIs this your honorās intent?ā
And they insult Trayvon who was studying to be an Aeronautical Engineerā¦..you knowā¦.A Rocket Scientist !!
I just re – posted the original “letter” and my critique. Maybe we should send the critique over to the Outhouse and notify them that they got another “F”
@Racer
Ha! LOL
All ya had to do was ask !! Presto !!
@Racer
****Clique****
Somewhere I see a parrot walking back and forth on his perch saying over & over…………
“Bwaak Your partner sucks your partner sucks
Bwaak tell the Zidiot your partner sucks your partner sucks what a Zidiot what Zidiot Bwaakk
@Racer
Bwa ha ha ha
It prolly belongs to Crane-Station!!! LOL
Did I call that one or what !!
@Racer
The mental picture you gave me was outstanding! I imagined Crane collecting her bird and giving XXXXX a what for. She has such a colorful vocabulary!!!
Even the animals say it….O’ Mara sucks O’ Mara sucks
@Racer
š
I understand they don’t delete their own comments very often, when they do they must be frantic to see some blunder they’ve made disappear forever. It has got to be a jolt for them to see their deleted missive appear back in place and spreading yet, hahahaha. š
Yeah …I was busy, but you guys come first. OI posted the original and my critiqued version. It must tick them off when we do that stuff.
@Lonnie
Ain’t that the truth!
Yep ! Maybe they can blame us……because O’ Mara sucks that is.
OooooKayyy I re – posted the original Letter and my critique.
I’ve got copies of them both, now all I need is the pedigree, can you reconstruct where you got it from? Was it Sundance Cracker? date time thread you know, gotta tie it back to it’s source.
@Lonnie Starr
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/02/24/an-open-letter-to-don-west/
February 24, 2013 by Sundance.
Here’s a real good response to the sewer letter, er, open letter.
Truly an exceptional letter, Sundance.
Iāve been waiting, hoping and praying that you would do something like this because it could be a game changer.
I only hope that the media picks this up and exposes the ārealā DeeDee but you have made public on this site other āliesā and they did nothing. I donāt recall any āreputableā media outlet ever actually challenging any of the allegations you have made here at the Tree House.
I made a suggestion in a post above because I feel morally obligated to do whatever I can as a citizen to insure that justice will be served.
You appear to be the only person in any media who is willing to tell the truth so I am wondering if you have any suggestions as to what I, or anyone else, can do to help in this cause?
Wolverines!!!
“Truly an exceptional letter, Sundance.”
In all reality it has no structure and rambles back and forth.
Iāve been waiting, hoping and praying that you would do something like this because it could be a game changer.”
What game are you hoping to change ?? baseball ?
‘”I only hope that the media picks this up and exposes the ārealā DeeDee but you have made public on this site other āliesā and they did nothing.”
Really, nothing…there was nothing
“I donāt recall any āreputableā media outlet ever actually challenging any of the allegations you have made here at the Tree House.”
“I made a suggestion in a post above because I feel morally obligated to do whatever I can as a citizen to insure that justice will be served.” Justice will be served when FogenPhoole is locked up for life.
“You appear to be the only person in any media who is willing to tell the truth so I am wondering if you have any suggestions as to what I, or anyone else, can do to help in this cause?”
Dude ya gitta get out of the 6th grade man. That shit is slowing ya down.
Wolverines!!!
What??? It looks like it’s still up there? I thought it was taken down?
It was down. But it is nice of them to add pictures of Judge Nelson this time.
@Lonnie Starr
All I did was Google certain words and it came up.
It was down…..that didn’t look good though. Must have looked like a sign of surrender.
@Racerrodig. Surrender or editing. I didn’t read it with seriousness to see if it was edited. Just imagine — with O’Mara’s next motion for anything, BDLR can present that letter of legal advise to West from the treeslum.
Amazingly they did not edit it.I went through it very carefully and not a word was changed. So…it stands as “third chair advice” or as we know……”comments from the peanut gallery”
@racerrodig
Yes, the above in addition to giving unsolicited legal advice to a lawyer on how to represent another person. Interfering with the administration of justice. Impugning the reputation of a member of the Bar.
Didn’t they say “Your partner sucks” Hmmmmm Might as well have said “Tell the Judge to go fxxx herself”
BDLR has his email address at the bottom of either motions or answers to motions. You can send it to him and he can then provide a copy to MOM via discovery in court, hahahaha, Then we can all sit back and watch MOM’s eyes pop during the next hearing. Especially if MOM even hints about leaving the case! BDLR can hold on to it until MOM begins talking about his difficulties and how he can’t possibly meet the June 10. Then BDLR can serve a motion to cut the defense off from internet blogs and social media sites. Hahaha… Won’t that be a hoot? š
Consider it done !!
Hmmm… So that link goes to a google cache, they used to offer a link so you knew you had an expired document, now, it seems they just present it. Okay. Thanks. That means anything posted on the net never goes away anymore, since google’s massive servers and billions of crawlers cache everything.
Sundance Cracker, Sunday time N/A ,From the Outhouse
Yep got it The letter that won’t go away hahaha…
Damn…..didn’t I throw that away…….?
Lonnie- Technically, the entire letter was posted on this blog somewhere. It could be copied and pasted.
Sent from my iPod
I’m sure we can figure something out.
Oh com’on Racer, just how long can they keep a “kick me I’m stupid” sign hanging on their backs, before they realize they’d best remove it? š
I guess I just missed the obvious….Neon sign at that.
Maybe I can just copy & paste the entire critique to the Outhouse…anybody can add what they want first before I send it over.
Lonnie Star- LOL! That was a huge guffaw!
Sent from my iPod
That letter is now property of Team Trayvon and if they want it back it’s gonna cost em. it took me 10 minutes to type that,,,,thsessleeping pills are fun. If Fogen was on these,he;d have shot SheLie…but inn slow motion. Oh momma
Wow! The letter is gone?? How delicious! And yet the fun had just begun in dissecting all the deep legal issues it was unearthing (wink).
Sent from my iPod
I re – posted it along with my critiqued version.
Lets have some fun !!
Dear Mr. West,
“It is an unknown variable how much of the case background you were technically aware of…..”
It should simply be “It is unknown to us, how much….”
“..technically….” A hahahahaha how about “…were aware of..”
“It is also an unknown variable….” “variable” again ?
“…as to the nature of your relationship with Mark OāMara, and whether it is in fact more than professional?”
A “variable…..relationship…”
Are you suggesting they are gay ?? or just friends ?
“However, it is well-known to interested observers that you are the primary researcher/investigator of the defense.”
Prove it AND. who cares ?? you need a space between the / mark.
“Your partner sucks.”
At least was all agree on that one, not to mention what a class letter this is turning out to be.
“Not only is he professionally compromised,…”
Huh ?? “incompetent” maybe compromised would be
“I have pictures of a naked O’ Mara and a hooker”
“….known by many within the courthouse circuit to be a fibber and āstretcher of truthā….”
“fibber” Now that’s telling ’em !
āstretcher of truthā use ” ” not ‘ ‘
“…. ā but he is also smarmy and truth adverse. “smarmy” Naa !
“…truth adverse…” Seriously, you’re making this up as you go along, you do know that.
“…..for lawyered types…” “lawyered types”…Okay !!
Professor…were you ever a “lawyered type”
“…when representing guilty folks, or those who might be
guilty; ….”
Big Difference there gang
“But itās a horrid professional trait…………”
You guys said he was the best in the business 6 months ago !
“So what does that mean?”
“Quite simply, it means that you, Don West, are the only hope that George Zimmerman has.”
I peed my pants when I read that line.
“… You really dropped the ball…” A new legal term ?
“…with a specific narrative created by Benjamin Crump.”
Before it was a “random narrative” Make up your minds
“…is the disinfecting sunlight of truth through discovery.”
“disinfecting sunlight” Really ??
“When Judge Nelson denied the motion…….you should:…”
a) have expected it, and b) have had a pre-plan to use such a ruling to your advantage.
Ahahahahahahahahahahahaha Tell us how “Denied” gets used to you advantage….This I have to hear.
“…pre-plan” another new legal term ??
Oh and they did expect it…so throw a) out.
“Remind the court that by offering Benjamin Crump…. blah, blah, boring blah…..”
Hey this would actually be c)
“Your honor, if you are going to use, and afford,……”
When told “Tell it to the Judge” that means only if you’re the defendant …….not some internet racist blogger, we thought you actually knew that.
“…clarify for the record why they specifically and intentionally have erroneously misled the court -and the accused- with regard to the identity of Witness #8.”
Nothing of the sort was done….Freaking Liar !!
“Mr. Crump, and now by your honorās extension, āThe Stateā, have presented and portrayed the witness to be a āminor childā of 16-years-age on March 19th 2012. Simultaneously, the same State is now presenting the identity of this witness to be 19 years old on February 22nd of 2013 ā A seemingly irreconcilable difference.”
Quote me…Never, ever…piss of the Judge….ever. I don’t recall 19 ever being mentioned, but I could be wrong
“of 16-years-age on March 19th 2012. Simultaneously, the same….”
This should be “…of 16-years of age on March 19th 2012, (coma) while simultaneously, the same….”
” A seemingly irreconcilable difference.”
Have you read / heard / seen any of the defendants stuff ??
That “irreconcilable” text book I might add !
“….she was never asked, nor voluntarily gave her last name.”
Really, like you’d actually leave her alone !
“Additionally, not only was Witness #8 not asked her name, but she was not asked her address or other such identifying characteristics.”
She’s over 3 feet tall and under 8 feet tall happy ??
“Lastly, according to the same sworn…………”
This is a bold faced lie. There is a lot of shit after this….”lastly” is a lie.
“If Mr. Crump……. lots of blah, blah, boring inane blah…and physically presented herself to be 18-years-of age?”
I now physically present myself as age……..
“If Mr. Crump is now a representative….. then how can this be reconciled?”
There is nothing to reconcile…..did you learn a new word ??
“Would this not represent a fair question……blah, blah, more boring blah,…”
Nope…..it’s not a valid topic, let alone one needing reconciliation. Are you just looking for an “I’m sorry” like this
“Is the court now affirming that it is permissible for the ākeyā and āprimaryā stateās witness to be hidden…..” boring blah
See, he lied, that was not “Lastly” above….
“The accused is being restricted from any identifying āanyā characteristics of Witness #8 such as her address, despite the fact that the state has presented differing and actual physical accounts of this same witness.”
I kid you not “…any identifying “any”….”
“any” in quotes ?? you mean “We want her address so we can torment her” not “..such as..”
“…differing and actual physical accounts of this same witness.”
Duhhhhh what the F is that sentence structure about ??
Where the heck is that physical account of my witness ??
“By granting Mr. Crump the protections of opposing counsel from deposition, the court is now restricting the accused from knowing, with certainty, the identity of his accuser ā and simultaneously putting a road block in the quest for truth and justice by allowing the State to avoid having to reconcile the differing accounts of her personage.”
Tell ya what Cracker….let us have Fogens address, I’ll provide security for Dee Dee and it’s “Game On”
“…reconcile..” again ?? really…?
“Is this your honorās intent?”
And they insult Trayvon who was studying to be an Aeronautical Engineer…..you know….A Rocket Scientist !!
Opppps I forgot.
Sundance Cracker & RZ Jr really need to share a Legal Advice Radio Show……Seriously…….and I know everyone here would call regularly needing “Advice”
They would have a ways to go to match the popularity of Car Talk.
Yep…..I can see them now. With topics like
“How to sweet talk a Judge”
“How to prove non – racism”
“What to do when you’re arrested and have “Short Term Vision”
“Afro – Peruvian Heritage….the legal pitfalls”
“How to hide 1/4 million from the IRS….illegally”
“Starting a Neighborhood Watch”
“Defrauding a lawyer….10 easy steps”
“How to subvert the judicial system for fun & profit”
“Getting new court room procedures the old fashioned way”
“Motions…how to write a winner”
“The hazards of recorded jail house phone calls”
“Getting over the heartbreak of lost Motions.”
“Setting up a simple jail house code when Pig Latin is too hard”
“Sue you….sue me……sue everybody”
Was this a call made by Fogen…????
@racerrodig.
How to live in an extended stay hotel for 7 months without really trying.
2 easy meals to prepare in an extended hotel room.
How to write a resume after failing college and being unemployed for over a year.
You too can learn to walk with a GPS ankle bracelet.
I knew I could count on members of Team Trayvon for more exciting topics….the possibilities are endless !!
At least that would be a program everyone would be recommending to the opposing counsel. š
I have an idea, Fogenhats has to prove his hideout presently to all the witnesses’ and prove all the alleged threats against him otherwise he has to provide his hideout address and his hideout for the entire time he was hiding from the law
fair is fair, as that is what Omara is asking of the witnesses
otherwise, all witnesses can testify telephonically like his family did with no evidence of any threats to their lives
And the defense is trying to rewrite Court Procedures just for them. Right….No Cross Examination. Here try this…
“I saw a suspicious guy….I looked for him without following, he savagely attacked me..look at these pictures, I almost died, I shot him in self defense….The End.”
“Oh My God, that’s terrible….and they arrested you for that ? Oh ladies and gentleman of the jury….what do you say if we just let bygones be bygones and let this poor man go lets all say we’re sorry
Oh and, how about if we give you oh, say 5 million dollars for your inconvenience”
New Post Up:
Judge Nelson Properly Denied the Defense Motion to Depose Benjamin Crump in Trayvon Martin Case
I’m just giddy that both papi z and MOM have inextricably aligned themselves with the Outhouse. ;-D
jejeje
Remember though….they’re not racists. (racer laughing hysterically)
Their decisions to affiliate themselves with a right wing hate group that openly adores and idolizes Breitbart, the man whose name became a verb for character assassination by lie, demonstrates their commitment to lying to get what they want.
Don’t forget Jr. and the radio show host.
“Donāt forget Jr. and the radio show host.”
“Welcome to the Radical Racist Radio Network BKRAP with your hosts RZ Jr and Sundance Cracker. Tonight’s topic is “How to positively influence the Judge on criminal matters” (Station Identification)
And now our 1st caller………Frank ………..you’re on the air.
Frank “Yeah, this is Frankie the T, listen…..I keep gettin stopped for drinking..an drinking and….dr, dr, driving”
Jr. “Oaky, are you a racist?”
Frank “..is,is there any other way?”
Sundance “…well now, how about if we write a letter to the Judge, we have a lot of ex.”
Frank “Can you, you, you help me with another problem?”
Jr. “Sure, we’re not racists, what’s that?”
Frank “I, I have this short term vision, vision thing…and….”
@racerrodig. ROFLMAO!
I see it coming.
My heart is sinking as the anniversary hour is approaching.
I feel the same but we can’t change what happened so look at the positive.
We are “One Day Closer” to Justice for Trayvon.
III=> Tick – Tock <=III
I’ve never understood why the defense makes such a big deal about Witness 8. It’s obvious to me that the phone bill is key.
I don’t know much about the situation regarding W8 so please correct me if I’m wrong but this is what I believe happened.
In the early investigation into the shooting Sanford PD overlooked the victim’s phone records. I imagine at some point after their son’s death, the Martin’s received the phone bill. I imagine they were shocked to learn that Trayvon was on the cell phone during the time GZ was following their son and possibly during the time he was shot.
I can imagine the Martin’s calling the phone number on the bill and speaking with a young lady. I can imagine it was then that Crump got involved and questioned her. I think he did that because he knew Sanford PD was botching the case.
That’s what I think happened. However the defense wants to twist it they cannot deny the fact that Trayvon was on the phone with someone.
At this point it is pretty safe to say that the phone records confirm that that she was on the phone with him. If they didn’t both the prosecution and the defense would have known for months. We would have heard about that.
However her words are still important. She was pretty clear that Trayvon did not seek out a confrontation and she provided the only real specifics other than GZ’s word about the start of the confrontation.
Neutralizing that would very valuable to the defense, whether it is done by impeaching her properly, intimidating her into taking some of it back or hurting her credibility by planting the idea of a conspiracy in jurors’ minds.
Not necessarily the phone bill, but phone records from the cell carrier, or history within Trayvon’s phone (once state investigators manage to get it unlocked, which took awhile and required help from out of state..)
I think they are just plain crazy.
Tomorrow night vigils, there will be no speeches. I know that our host’s article will encompass not only what they feel as tomorrow approaches, but those who best expressed how they feel in our last thread, better than I ever could. I would like to thank those people who expressed this so well.
Thanks for showing foggen up for the lieing loser childkiller.
That he is LLLMPAPPA….
I did notice his left hand in that vt.
Think it was the voice stress thing.
I commented about it at another site
Not the grabbing scenario you point out
But although he lies with his mouth dureing reconstruction events.
When foggen attempts to recreate how it went down
His body actions often tell the truth.
Like the smothering i m o he smothers his own mouth with his hands
Exactly as he smothered Trayvons mouth at one point in his attack/
I would have used my hands oneontop anoth an push them in front of me to show Police how someone had attemptted smothering me.
Any way the reason I noticed his left hands position dureing that interveiw.
Was that it tottaly contradicted what was comeing from his mouth .
Both in written an verbal statements..
He made a big deal of haveing to take carefull aim to avoid shooting his own left hand.
His left hand is no where near needing to be avoided when he mimicks the shot
Honest to goodness, Colin, he has done as much lying with his hands/body language as he has with his mouth. I mean sometimes something will come out of his mouth and his hands/arms/body betrays him, sometimes it is the other way around, but he just can’t seem to get it together.
I just caught LLMPapa’s latest video, “Fistfull.” My God. It left me speechless. I am trying to prepare myself for the possibility this creep may get off, but with this type of evidence, you would have to be dead, dumb and blind to set this devil free.
According to this article, Trayvon’s parents will appear on CNN with Piers Morgan tonight:
5 things you may have missed about the George Zimmerman saga
By Michael Pearson and Greg Botelho, CNN
updated 8:30 AM EST, Mon February 25, 2013
http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/25/justice/florida-zimmerman-5-things/index.html
Do not visit that article if you aren’t prepared to get angry. CNN comment boards are full of trolls.
thanks, elcymoo.
thanks, Mike, always a good warning up front, nothing good can come of reading the comments on those places.
As to living in a trailer, here’s what Fogen would have done if he really were smart. He would have taken $30,000 cash from the fund and purchased a single-wide trailer way at the end of a trailer park that was itself “at the end of the world and then on the bottom.” He would have hired three unemployed individuals from that very trailer park (there are always unemployed people in any trailer park in an economy like this one!) to do eight-hour shifts guarding the entrance to the trailer park and he would have provided a cell phone for the watch person etc. Security problem solved; living arrangements paid; possibility of finding gainful employment at home very high because he and Shellie could do piece-work of all sorts that could be delivered by this neighbors. He could rebuild carburators, for instance. Anyway, if he had done that he could even start up mentoring again! There’s nothing wrong with trailers or with people who have to live under financially stressed circumstances. There is something wrong, however, with self-important hubric (coined that one myself) arrogant killers who expect the whole world to feel bad if they get called to account for the kill.
I would have bought a used Winnebago for more location flexibility. Neighbors get too nosy? Move on …
It seems that there is even more dissension at the CTH. The moderator there just bans anyone who disagrees with his ridiculous opinions. So the group is basically formed by him and his sycophant followers.
His arguments must be terribly weak if they cannot sustain any criticism at all.
In the last hearing, BDLR alluded to the fact that W#9 has a lawsuit against CTH for doxing. Yet he continues to brazenly post all of her personal information on his website.
So many intelligent people have left his group, or been banned if they dare to argue with him.
His latest mission is to get MOM removed from the case, but he hasn’t a clue about that. All of his missives are based upon hearsay and his “spidy” sense. Give me a break!
@stevie g, no wonder there has been an increase of new people commenting over at HP in support for Fogen.
Yowzers!
Yowsers, indeed! Truly a KISS for any reluctant juror.
Devastating. Absolutely. And the jury will be watching it while an expert talks āforensics, ballistics, trajectory, and physicsā. This is the kind of evidence that strikes fear into the heart of any diligent attorney. I am sure our good friend OāMara has not noticed this (yet), because if he has, he would have stopped pursuing phantoms and start having āhard-talkā with GZ. Brilliant, LLMPapa. In your next life make sure to study (criminal) law! You would make an excellent prosecutor.
This video also helps in understanding why prosecutors opposed release of GZās video statements arguing that releasing them would amount to making confessions public (contrary to the law). They were right, IMO. As I see it, this video contains a significant part of GZās confession that (a) is corroborated by forensic evidence and (c) contradicts GZās self-defense stories. Wao, LLMPapa! Up till now, I only saw the outstretched right hand. Stupid me. But bringing THAT left hand and the results of ballistic/forensic tests into the equation erases (IMO) any doubt as to whether or not GZ held onto Trayvonās garment pulling it down with his left hand and shot him with his right hand.
“Up till now, I only saw the outstretched right hand. Stupid me.”
Me too. I only hope if the jury sees this, they are not stupid like I was. I hope they catch it. Or if it is allowed to be pointed out to them by the prosecution, that they have caught it too.
Do you really think that this is why prosecutors opposed release of the video statements? I certainly hope so. I so very much certainly hope so.
The fogen’s tale teling hands.
This fogen might think twice before countering with an explanation that fist was to hit back, because he already described how he never used his hands hit, he used his arms openly in front of his face, same video.
His hands and arm gestures tell….
The fogen tried his shifting little story he did with Investigator Irwin to reveal how he got his gun into position to fire, “from the hip”, or fully “extended” because with someone atop, “you don’t have a lot of room”, questioned Irwin, and fogen finally said ‘yes’.
After a few distractions and excuses, the fogen had his hands down on the table and hesitated, gulped (without taking a drink) and finally admitted directly, ‘I was on him, I knew I was on [him]. This is shown in his hand gestures also, and that little barrel poke he does to make sure, using his now still left palm, to take the push of the barrel to demonstrate how he knew he was ‘on’. ‘On’ physically, therefore ‘on target’.
He does repeat his little gun push forward movements as if making sure before pulling the trigger.
That would take some concentration and focus in those seconds, and then a cut off gasped scream as the victim feels the gun past his drawn out shirt, hit his chest…. and ~ 0.9 seconds later the bullet exits the end of the short barrel, marking the gunshot heard on the 911 call.
Will SYG be useful to counter the control someone would have over someoen he has grabbed by the shirt, at the very moment the gun was ‘on’ the victim, where the victim hands up, or backing off, and or ‘giving up now’ gestures? Isn’t that the point in normal self defense (without syg) where one would have to back off from the kill?
Is this fraction of a moment where syg could fit in?
ay2z, I’m not sure I understand your question, but the way I look at it (though I could be wrong), if someone has you at gunpoint yelling and interrogating you while you are yelling no and pleading for yor life, they grab you by th shirt and shoot you, that is not SYG, that is not self-defense. That is murder.
Oh my, you do see everything, LLMPapa.
And, this is one of your most important videos!
Thank you!
I so very very much hope that someone from the prosecution has a subscription to your channel.
LLMPapa just watch your video,when he is showing the shooting motion,watch as his fist goes towards his face. Could that be when he hit himself in the face with his own fist causing that little bo bo to his nose.
The ‘tiny niney’ Kel-Tec has quite a kick apparently. LLMPapa did a video about the path of the shell casing some time ago, and that shows how, even when used by a large person (presumably with experience using handguns on targets) can have his arm and hand thrown back.
Worth a watch. If that shooter had been holding the gun in front, not watching sightlines or distant targets,the gun could be in a position to kick back into one’s face if trying to get a straight shot vs angled and not aiming from a balanced position with a locked, extended arm.
That might support fogen’s story of being under Trayvon. Got his broken nose from the kickback from, not his, not ‘the’, but Shellie’s gun.
That will work just fine!
For any given caliber gun, the the shorter the barrel / slide is the more recoil it will have. A longer gun has a longer recoil spring and travel which absorbs the recoil. That piece of garbage as you called it a “tiny niney” could have cause this. Maybe the recoil hit his fist and he reacted hard…..didn’t see it….and can only guess.
if you Google anything like “stupid people with guns” there are thousands who do just that.
Race….I had the same argument with someone on the vine..shorter the barrel…….the more recoil…
Then they for into this whole mass v weight of the weapon as to recoil………………………
One Zidiot or another has played that game with some of us in the past. Last June ? on HP there was a gun shop owner who stated what we know to be fact…..Zidiot Alert…..no…no…no….
They said the Kel – Tek has 0 recoil….so we posted the links to a few Kel – Tek videos.
Ya know I can hit a 12″ target with a Black powder .36 cal. 1851 Navy revolver at 50 yds.
9MM?……..I miss by a few trees.
It seems every expert on the planet tells us how inaccurate those old pieces are. My dad had a few friends with some old stuff like that and they hit what they aimed at.
I have a 9mm Taurus PT92, a Beretta clone..I usually shoot at 25 yards.and keep everything in the middle, my Walther .32 even at that range…… I can dot the i
Ya know I’m with you on the Walthers….the PPK & PPS are some of the best semi autos ever made.
I still like my front stuffers tho š
I was at an indoor range about 20 years ago and was just leisurely taking the centers out of targets and 2 Camden cops were watching. They were stunned at the accuracy of that little guy.
LOL at no recoil
Gunpowder is an explosive element when sparked and fired a piece of metal shrapnel that is propelled out of a gun barrel
of course there is recoil
All guns have recoil, even if they are heavy
Excellent catch! And to put the fist together with the shirt grab when fogen explained his arm and explained he never punched back, means not falling into the liar’s trap.
Thanks!
Yep….I said this a thousand times and I’ll add to it.
“Mr. (Fogen) you have the right to remain silent and…..”
“…um. okay, but why would I do that, I have so many more versions to tell you…”
“You may need a lawyer”
“Lawyer….lawyer….I don’t need no stinking lawyer”
Yep, watch that left hand….wouldn’t want to blow any digits off…..that would really hurt that “self defense” story now.
Ahhh. Look at that recoil move.
I noticed he is trying for “accuracy” with him showing how he used his gun…extended arm…grabbing with his left hand a a recoil movement. Can’t wait for the trial when he tries to show his elbow against the ground, er, his arm extended, that is his left hand, well, being careful not to shoot his left hand, while on the ground, mounted……..Yep…sucks to be Fogen. I’m just concerned about anyone close by when he is sworn in and the Bible spontaneously combusts.
@racerrodig
HA!! Think of like this. GZ said it was all God’s plan. Putting his hand on the Bible seals the deal — like signing the contract for God to speak in that courtroom giving his side. God’s side is always truth and righteousness. O’Mara is no Balaam’s donkey. GZ will ride him straight into being deaf, blind and unable to speak.
To the forward-looking part of me, 2/26/2013 means: Only 29 days until final witness lists are due. That will be a significant milestone in the Justice for Trayvon effort.
I donāt know how āfinalā such lists will ultimately be (the Professor could maybe speak from experience on that, although it might be more of a ālocal customā matter than a broad legal concept). But I suspect the expectation is that they be very close to actual final witness lists.
To me, the significance of this milestone is that it basically frames the perimeters of what the trial – and any immunity hearing – might look like. Itās like a commitment from each side that reveals, at least to some extent, who and what they think they need to prove what they need to prove and/or to rebut what they need to rebut.
I think itās probably a very stressful milestone for both sides, but I suspect it might be more stressful for the defense in this case at this juncture. Likely (and I certainly hope), the prosecution long ago evaluated and planned how to present its case in chief, as well as its attack on any self-defense claim. On the other hand, the defense has seemingly been chasing boogey-men strategies, public perception control, and tangential issues – at the expense of preparing a sound legal defense. I could be WAY wrong about this, and I actually hope that I am. But the final witness lists are likely to shed some light on it one way or the other.
I hope the Professor will correct any misconceptions I may have presented. (Thanks in advance!)
TICK-TOCK ā¦ TICK-TOCK ā¦ TICK-TOCK ā¦..
Until my son married and gave me 2 grandbabies, I had NO family at all other than him. I would not have it on me if anything happened to him and what happened to Trayvon is every parent’s worst nightmare. I cannot even begin to imagine the pain his family is going through and how they will relive it on the 26th and again at the trial. They are such brave stong people to carry on through all this on the outside with all the pain and loss they must feel inside.
I will feel it an honor to hoodie up and be here at 6:30. It is an honor I would rather not have, but one I will perform every year until our sons can walk down the streets at night and our daughters can not have to fear being doxed and bullied.
@racer, are you talking about 6 am or 6 pm on the 26th in reference to your comment about what we can do on that day for Trayvon. I’m all for anything that supports Trayvon and his family, as well as for those who will stand up against his killer in a court of law. it’s a sin and a shame, that some people in this country have just turned this case into a symbol of hatred only because Trayvon was an African American child. Fogen has turned single handed divided this country and, he has also brought out those who hate others because of the color of their skin.
No matter what color Trayvon was or, how tall and how much he weighed, he was still a human being and, just as much of a child of GOD as those who see fit to tarnish his memory as well as hurt his family by the ugly things that they say. it hurts me to no end and, I know it’s even worse on his parents/brother. I just don’t understand why these people are being so rude and insensitive to this deceased child and his family.
These folks would do well to remember, THERE BUT BY THE GRACE OF GOD GO I!
I know. I hurt so very much for them when “those people” say those awful things. I know they aren’t meant for me personally, but they may as well be. That family has such grace, courage and strength. My hat off to them, or more aptly, my hoodie up to them.
6:30 pm, EST tomorrow.
A careless whisper that will help seal his fate.
The part that gets me is that when Serino asks him what he actually said in that careless whisper, he easily and shamelessly says, “fucking punks.” As if calling a kid he had never met a “fucking punk” because he stupidly associated the kid with others he had already labeled “fucking punks” was a perfectly normal, blameless, righteous act. So long as he did not say “coons,” he thinks what he did was cool? This is Fogen-I-am-not-a-racist-because-I-had-good-reason-to-think-“the-suspect”-was suspicious Fogenman. This is “See, I only said punk” Fogen. This is “after all he WAS walking around looking up to no good” Fogen. This is “I don’t know what his think is” Fogen. Pure as the driven snow.
Oh now Malisha, don’t you know that “fucking punks” is a term of endearment used when calling police about these assholes who always get away?
I have another ridiculas theory.
GZ Parents Gladise an Robert where wham fans.
An George Michell Fans
So they named there son after him George Michel not Wham
Though wham or bamm would be more apt
Urony alert
They did not realise that years latter there son would stalk an murder an unurmed child.
An dureing that call before ultimitely executing him
H e would refer to the child as an asshole
An perha[s worst of all a raceial slur
He did it in a whisper so no one would catch it.
But it was a careless whisper
If you like saxaphone check out the intro
@Colin Black. Before GZ reports for sentencing, ShelLIE will tell him to wake her up before he go-goes. š
Hahaha!
Possibilities for that song as well !!
Response to Race @ 3:02 pm.
Motion Granted.
I will begin a new thread devoted to Trayvon Martin, his family, friends and supporters @ 6:30 pm EST on Tuesday, February 26, 2013.
Hoodies Up!
Justice for Trayvon.
I forgot to ask, my son and his friends would like to chime in and pay tribute….is there an age limit ? They won’t all be here at the time.
No age limit. They will have to register to post and their first post will go into the comment=pending folder that I will be monitoring. Might take a few minutes before the comment shows up on the screen.
I will post the host article at 6:30 pm, EST tomorrow.
I assume they can register today or at least prior so there is no wait time ??
Yes.
Thank You !!
Thank you.
Thank you, professor. I will look for the new thread.
As I begin to start this day, I can’t help but remember kindheart’s touching poem about Trayvon’s “start” in life. I hope kindheart will not mind my quoting it again here:
.
.
I think my personal favorite was about his birth:
What is this here, what can this be?
I do not know, I can not see.
I move around, and wonder why.
although I try, I can not cry.
Itās dark, yet I can hear the sound,
of muffled voices, all around.
A voice says push, and then I see,
a bright, white light, in front of me.
Itās cold, I cry, I gasp for air,
I hear a voice, proudly declare.
We have a son, weāll call him Tray!
and thank the Lord, for him each day.
Trayvon Benjamin Martin was born February 5, 1995
Trayvon was murdered by George Zimmerman February 26, 2012 while walking home from the store.
“I think my personal favorite was about his birth:” —-kindheart’s words.
Following
2/26 means honoring the memory of Trayvon, and his parents’ work. Acknowledging the dignity and quiet strength they show everyday. Seeing how they hold their heads up high and fight for Trayvon’s memory, in the face of their tragic loss, and the unmitigated filth spewed at them and at the memory of Trayvon, everyday. It means hoping they realise and take comfort in the impact they and Trayvon have had on people all over the world, and take some of their strength from the knowledge that our prayers and positive energy is being sent their way, everyday – not just on 2/26.
I hope they know that they are not fighting this alone. That good people all over have spent countless hours, trying to make sure their truth is being heard and expressed far and wide. But, MOSTLY I pray they know that we listened and we heard. Their message has been received. Trayvon was their baby, but for millions of people the world over – Trayvon Could Have Been Our Child!
Excellent…..Tracy & Sabrina both thanked us at as a group as did Al Sharpton at several events….I was impressed the way Al stated it. He mentioned white people in a colorblind way….
Amen!
Amen.
Over at the treehouse they have posted an open letter to Don West. They are really losing it!
Really !! If I didn’t have so much self respect, I’d go read it.
Is it how should I put this…..”scathing” did they call him any names…..set an ultimatum ?? Owwwwww I can feel the tension in the air !!
No, they are trying to reason with him against MOM. Splitting the defense. Oh my!
I guess they finally saw that a divorce lawyer ain’t makin’ it !!
@racerrodig. Sundance tells West how to practice law, and the arguments he did not bring before the court regarding Witness 8. Their theory is that Witness 8 does not exist and in order to prove her non-existence, Attorney Crump has to be deposed. (Never mind the phone records.) They want to make a big deal out of DeeDee’s age when factually, it is irrelevant. Also, things are added into the letter that effectively, have not been said and/or do not exist, such as a publicly released sworn affidavit by DeeDee and its contents.
Their position has been, since the beginning, that without DeeDee, GZ cannot and should not be charged for killing Trayvon. Gilbreath’s statement on the stand regarding the evidence did not include witnesses, but the hypothesis that DeeDee holds the only evidence to convict GZ is their mantra.
As Lewis Black says…..They’re “Deeee – Luuu – sion – al”
@Racerrodig. Delusional is right. One thing that Zidiots forget is that GZ let the cat out of the bag during his Hannity interview. DeeDee said that Trayvon told her he was standing in the mail shed out of the rain, and during that call is when he also told her that a creepy guy was following him.
GZ claimed that he saw Trayvon standing by Taaffe’s. GZ says he drove to the clubhouse and parked when calling NEN.
Then to Hannity, he said that Trayvon did not look like someone coming out in the rain to get his mail.
He’s had so many Freudian Slips it’s a joke. Then there was that profiling comment that he made saying he didn’t see Trayvon as one who would be ……………..
Doo-dloo-doo-doo-doo
Doo-dloo-doo-doo-doo-doo
Doo-dloo-doo-doo-doo-doo
Doo-dloo-doo-doo-doo-doo…
I’m training in the rain
Just training in the rain
What a glorious feeling
I’m happy again
I’m laughing at clouds
So dark up above
Dee Dee’s in my heart
And I’m ready for love
Let the stormy clouds chase
Everyone from the place
Come on with the rain
I’ve a smile on my face
I walk down the lane
With a happy refrain
Just training,
training in the rain
Fogen’s jealous because he’s to lazy, has no self control and would never actually train to have a nickname like “Slim”
LOL the main problem with their theory is
a) I am not sure but I think Crump said he think she’s 16, which is the basis of the Tinfoil Hat theory
b) The words did not come straight out of the mouth of witness 8 whom we all know as Deedee
Since it came out of Crump’s mouth, it can not be used to attack witness 8’s credibility on the issue, on top of it being irrelevant LOL
Read the statute on perjury and you will see that you are allowed to lie about your age
So until I hear it straight from the witness’ mouth, it does not mean much
As it comes now it is based on what the Tinfoil Hat is alleging and they are not the most credible people
As always…..well said.
I think it’s funny, in its ridiculous way. They can’t abide by the idea that someone they disrespect might have had a girlfriend who really DID exist and who really WAS on the phone with him when Fogen chose to hijack his life and make him play a part in the “LIFE AND TIMES OF THE GREAT FOGEN” instead. They resist the idea that Trayvon Martin’s separate life was full of its own dramatis personae, and that he wasn’t simply the walking concept of what Fogen believed he should be seen as, and believed he should be KILLED as. It defies belief, to see them act so strangely, to see them weave their weird theories and to see them insist that a real Trayvon Martin who was not THEIR IDEA of the “thug” could exist in the real world without their permission.
Truly bizarre, truly bizarre, what can I say?
Somebody posted the letter…..is this for real !!
I don’t know about scathing, but ot is hilarious, as id your DeeDeelusional LOL. Very good.
The funny thing is, even without Deedee’s existence, it still does not mean much to the truth of what happened, because he targeted, stalked, caught, confronted, attacked, threatened, and killed an unarmed kid for walking home from 7-11 with Skittles and the kid screamed and pleaded for mercy and for the defendant to get off him
LOL
Too bad so sad though because she was on the phone with the victim during the first part of the encounter with Fogenhats, Mr. Fantasy Cop
They are also stating that MOM is “professionally compromised, known by many within the courthouse circuit to be a fibber and āstretcher of truthā, and concerned more about his selfish ego than the protection of his client, your client, ā but he is also smarmy and truth adverse.”
Wow!
Message to MOM…if you lie down with dogs…you are going to get fleas.
@operacarla
LOL! That is serious and right-on, but also funny. My mom told me that if I laid down with dogs I’d come up with puppies. O’Mara laid down with GZ and came up with the CTH.
I resent that! When you lie down with dogs you have better bed partners than many people I know — who cannot be named because I have to take the “high road” — and you can get fleas by lying down with many sorts of flea-bitten lowlifes!
Jeez: There are dog-lovers on this blog, ya’know? Damn!
My grandwhippet would be dismayed to think that a Florida domestic relations lawyer was suspected of lying down with him. He wouldn’t have it!
I just saw that. Craziest thing I ever did see.
I have stated this early on in this case
Fogenhats’ gang is full of people that stab people in the back and screw people, so obviously they will not be able to stick together as a unit to support Fogenhats LOL
You can’t expect people who go around screwing people over, and expect them to be able to work in conjunction with each other, when they screw each other LOL
I understand Omara has a job to do but he should have just stuck to his job instead of being a slave to a dollar bill
We all need money but he is stuck in a predicament where he has to jump and dance for people who just see him as their own personal slave
I mean they are writing that as a letter to Mr. West, still saying DeeDee is manufactured and also sending out to news agencies and oh godknowswhere. I think having their name mentioned went to their heads.
@Rachael
Having the name of that blog mentioned by the State prosecutor in open court and in association with their illegal cyber activity is nothing they should be proud of. BDLR addressed their intimidation of witnesses. Sundance’s letter is an effort to continue that intimidation, deceitfully saying “Unless she appears and tells us everything about her personally so we can verify it, then she doesn’t exist. But, you have to humiliate Crump first demanding that he give you information he says he doesn’t know.”
They risk attracting reporters (hacks?) looking for an easy story to draw eyeballs. They won’t last a hot day on center stage in the national spot light. They want to talk about “disinfecting sunlight”? hahaha…
i did a rewrite of Aldo Nova’s “Fantasy” a few minutes ago…Nothing like a tailor made song…..
For the life of me, the phone records cementing her call being ignored by them is laughable. Did they think that anyone would just conjure up a witness and hope they could just blow it off with
“….we have lost contact with her and are terminating our relationship with her….she has NOT contacted the Prosecutors Office so we no longer have any ties…………..questions ??”
Something about that sounds very familiar, except the part about not contacting the prosecuter’s office š
You do remember this ………..When Uhrig & Sonner quit, it was in part because they found out FogenPhoole was calling Corey’s office directly. I just flipped it around.
Hence the š
You know that I knew you know that I knew….ya know !!
Yeah, I know you knew I knew lol
I knew that !!
I know!!! LOL
What are Uhrig & Sonner up to these days? Have they kept mum since their bizarre presser?
I believe I can hear them laughing now…..from NJ……Sonner just said “…..that dope, took that case anyway…”
Uhrig said “Well…..at least they won’t say one of us sucks….”
“Word”…..”Word”
Do the Tinfoil Hat realize they got outed for not being credible and being cyber stalkers, illegally leaking people’s personal information?
LOL Why would any media agency, with the exception of perhaps Fox News or Orlando Sentinel, take the Tinfoil Hat serious?
What is even more funny is Sundance or whatever his name is, doxes witness 9, and then the dothprotest people outed his personal information, and he went crying to them how that was illegal?
LOL
I didn’t mean to offent your sweet dog Malisha. I apologize!
No Jun, they don’t realize it does not make them credible, they do not realize it means they are being watched. They think it is an honor. Is it merely coincidence they write that letter on Oscar night? They think they’ve won the Academy Award in every vategory.
@Rachael. Some people who are not parties to a case, are so bold as to try and interfere with the administration of justice by addressing the presiding judge, inferring that her decisions are intentionally wrong. That is a dangerous line to come close to, much less cross. Telling a pro se litigant or attorney what they should say in court is the practice of law, another line that is crossed in that letter.
As they submit that letter to media sources, they should pray it does not come to the attention of the Florida and/or the American Bar Association.
@Xena, this is not the first time they have crossed a line, but this might be the line that breaks the camel’s back if anyone takes it seriously and I think they do now. And if they do, they may be in over their heads.
@Rachael. I remember being informed that Sundance did not appreciate a reporter doxing Osterman. He did an entire post to that effect, even citing statute that doxing is illegal. Yet, he doxed Witness 9 and allows those who post comments to conduct illegal doxing of Witness 8 and bloggers who support justice for Trayvon.
The look on Judge Nelson’s face as she looked at the exhibits entered by BDLR showed great concern.
Yep, as you say, they may be over their heads.
@operacarla
IĀ“m definitely with Malisha on this:
E.g. my Denny
What about: If you play with fire… or my favourites in Spanish, “Dime con quiĆ©n andas, y te dirĆ© quiĆ©n eres”; “No con quien naces sino con quien paces” (paces = v. pacer = to graze)
OH please oh please, someone post it (i refuse to go there)
LMAO
Here you go Tzar:
Dear Mr. West,
It is an unknown variable how much of the case background you were technically aware of prior to your entry into this case. It is also an unknown variable as to the nature of your relationship with Mark OāMara, and whether it is in fact more than professional? However, it is well-known to interested observers that you are the primary researcher/investigator of the defense.
Your partner sucks.
Not only is he professionally compromised, known by many within the courthouse circuit to be a fibber and āstretcher of truthā, and concerned more about his selfish ego than the protection of his client, your client, ā but he is also smarmy and truth adverse.
Being truth adverse might be a keen professional benefit for lawyered types when representing guilty folks, or those who might be guilty; But itās a horrid professional trait when defending the innocent because truth is supposed to be on your side.
So what does that mean?
Quite simply, it means that you, Don West, are the only hope that George Zimmerman has.
With that in mind, and considering the presentation before Judge Nelson on Friday 2/22/12 ā You really dropped the ball regarding the motion to depose Benjamin Crump.
You, and we, know that witness #8 is a fraud and a guise ā with a specific narrative created by Benjamin Crump. We, and you, also know the key to deconstructing that fraudulent narrative is the disinfecting sunlight of truth through discovery.
When Judge Nelson denied the motion to compel deposition under the precept of Benjamin Crump being āopposing counselā, and all such descriptives as defined by referenced precedent in law, you should:
a) have expected it, and b) have had a pre-plan to use such a ruling to your advantage.
Remind the court that by offering Benjamin Crump the protections codified within statute and prior case referenced conditions -saved only for prosecuting counsel- she is simultaneously then attaching all of his behaviors, conduct, and actions to the State Prosecutorial team.
In essence, if Nelson is going to protect Crump āas ifā he is the state prosecutor, then you should present your counter points as if the āstateā is now responsible for the behavior of Crump:
Your honor, if you are going to use, and afford, referenced case-law to protect the non-party Crump from deposition, thereby assigning him a new status of central party or conjoined counsel with the state, it is prudent to ask the State Prosecutor Mr. Bernie De La Rionda if he accepts such distinctions?
Secondly, and as a consequence of such acceptance, if such distinctions are now accepted by the State, will the state clarify for the record why they specifically and intentionally have erroneously misled the court -and the accused- with regard to the identity of Witness #8.
Mr. Crump, and now by your honorās extension, āThe Stateā, have presented and portrayed the witness to be a āminor childā of 16-years-age on March 19th 2012. Simultaneously, the same State is now presenting the identity of this witness to be 19 years old on February 22nd of 2013 ā A seemingly irreconcilable difference.
Previously, Mr. Crump presented through his counsel, Mr. Blackwell, an affidavit to the court noting that at the time of initial discovery for witness #8 (March 19th 2012) she was a minor, and further she was never asked, nor voluntarily gave her last name.
Additionally, not only was Witness #8 not asked her name, but she was not asked her address or other such identifying characteristics.
Lastly, according to the same sworn affidavit presented to the court, Mr. Crump, who is now by your judicial interpretation -a member of the state prosecutorial team- has claimed to have had no further contact with the Witness after March 19th.
If Mr. Crump never asked for her name, and the witness was identified by her age of 16, and he had no further contact with her after their March 19th conversation, then how can the State assert it was the same witness who was later interviewed on April 2nd and physically presented herself to be 18-years-of age?
If Mr. Crump is now a representative of the State, and the State is to be taken at their word to be truthful and honest, then how can this be reconciled?
Would this not represent a fair question that can only be answered by the same person or persons who presented her, through her sworn affidavit, to this court -which subsequently led to the arrest of my client?
Is the court now affirming that it is permissible for the ākeyā and āprimaryā stateās witness to be hidden or sheltered from questioning? And how can the State, or by extension this court, affirm to the accused that the identity of the person they will provide for deposition be the same person either party, Mr. Crump or Mr. De La Rionda have interviewed?
The accused is being restricted from any identifying āanyā characteristics of Witness #8 such as her address, despite the fact that the state has presented differing and actual physical accounts of this same witness.
By granting Mr. Crump the protections of opposing counsel from deposition, the court is now restricting the accused from knowing, with certainty, the identity of his accuser ā and simultaneously putting a road block in the quest for truth and justice by allowing the State to avoid having to reconcile the differing accounts of her personage.
Is this your honorās intent?
thanks will read in the morning
I’ll say one thing. That 6th grade edecshun really paid off with this guy !!
“Your partner sucks.” Hey dude….tell us what you really think…stop beating around the bush.
Nothing like highlighting an insane delusion and broadcasting it to the world so that everyone knows how crazy they are.
Will wonders never cease?
There is, however, the annoying fly in their ointment that they somehow manage to ignore.
That would be the interlocking phone records that indisputably prove that Trayvon and DD were talking to each other.
Welcome to the racist right wing Hall of Delusions in Bizzaro World where reality dare not intrude.
Absolutely astonishing!
What a waste of time, the judge never appointed Atty Crump to the prosecution, that’s just a construct, borne of a failed attempt at tautology, inapplicable at law. I mean wow, just because he thinks he understands words by their lay meanings, he believes he can carry his own understandings over into law. Not realizing that he might very well be attempting to write new law. You’d think West would be able to warn him that, not every word he reads has the same logical meaning at law.
Professor is keeping it simple here by letting us deal with the logic and reasoning applicable to this case. Just wait until he explains the legal meaning of some of the terms they are attempting to define the meaning of.
“..It is an unknown variable…” Can I file that under
A) No Shit Sherlock….. and
B) It should be “It is unknown to us how much you knew about….”
as the word “variable” in this context shows that “6th grade edecashun” again.
For the record, the amount of knowledge would be “Fixed” therefore nothing could be a “variable” I’m sure someron will pick me apart.
LOL! That’s one crazy mixed up dude!!! (did I just say dudu? oh oh)
That’s my one and only foray into reading anything of that sort again. No worries if that’s the IQ of the forgen’s supporter camp they need to be set on permanent ignore.
That guys really glad he stayed all the way to 6th grade about now I’m thinking.
LMAO
a) Why would West pay attention to those Tinfoil Hatters when he’s been running with their material and it has not helped him one bit?
b) What makes the Tinfoil Hatters feel they know whats what when they have been the ones making Omara & West dance to their tune in court?
In all reality, this is what we heard from the Outhouse until lately.
“Go Team Go…..tell those lies……Go Team Go…..tell more lies !!”
Now it’s
“You guys suck…you told lies….You guys suck….you told lies !!”
Once again…I wish they’d make up their minds….tells lies…..don’t tell lies…..I didn’t have time to reflect….obviously I did have time….
I’m so confused !!
The author of that letter worked on it for hours, and edited and wordsmithed, and thought himself or herself very clever indeed. At times it is good for a person who feels helpless in the face of frightening or upsetting circumstances to write it out, set it forth, and read and re-read it. It can also help bolster flagging self-esteem, which some people richly deserve (the flagging, that is). So let’s not criticize that letter too much.
I think it basically says that anybody who helps the prosecution find out anything about the case is a really bad bad person because after all, Fogen already TOLD the prosecution everything it needed to know about the case. He said, “I was yelling for help and nobody helped me” and he said, “I shot him in self-defense.” Why would ANY self-respecting law enforcement agency ever want more than that?
Malisha!~ I don’t think they deserve the FLAGGING so much as a good FLOGGING!
They seem a little over obsessed with witness 8 but I digress
But let us say they have a point, and they are basing their whole letter on an alleged 2 year difference in what the believed ages were
Trayvon was 17 and was described as unarmed and in the late teens by the killer, and then was later at the first bond hearing described by the killer as being 26 or in his 30’s by the killer, and the killer claimed he was unaware if the victim was armed or not
The killer also tried to structure and hide his money, and also hide his passport from the court in an effort to secure a lower bond and easier conditions for his bond by cohorting with his family and friends and his wife by having them tell lies and hearsay about his history of violence
So considering that aspect, why is the killer, more credible than thee state, according to them?
I am using the same argument they used for the state and Crump but I do not see any objective queries into the killer by thee
hmmm
For a communique that starts out “Dear Mr. West”, there seems to be a dramatic detour by the time readers slog through to the “is this your honor’s intent?” closer. Would it be unfair to conlude this letter sucks?
“Would it be unfair to conlude this letter sucks?”
More importantly would it be fair to say it wasn’t written by someone with anything higher than a 6th grade education ??
Words to live by “Your partner sucks”
I guess asking for a donation about would be uh……..out of the question ??
Well I can say this much about the letter, there is nothing in there that, having watched all the hearings, I would put past West or O’Mara having the temerity or shamelessness to say in open court and in front any camera willing to film them.
But ya gotta admit the line “Your partner sucks” spells 1 thing
Defeat.
so does “I need to interview her neighbors before I depose her”
“so does āI need to interview her neighbors before I depose herā
Oh that was rich….I’ll get “..a workup..” then actually talk to her, or not talk to her.
I can see it now.
Judge Nelson “…..her neighbor, your next witness is her neighbor? ”
West “….well your Honor, we did some digging and found out some very important things”
Nelson “…digging, ?? and where did these “important things” come from..”
West (frustrated) “….her neighbor !!!”
Nelson “But you didn’t depose her ??”
West “Why would we do that….her neighbor said……..”
Omara may think he is still doing divorce law, he probably ordered a spying kit with long distance lenses, sunglasses and hat and wants to “scope out a joint or 2”
…And mustache, mustn’t forget the mustaches! lol
Yep…..
So the ping log people don’t really like the ping logs will show, LOL!
bwah ha ha ha ha
Ping Logs…..I thought we put that to bed ?? Didn’t we decide we would only discuss Cheese Logs ??
Peanut or cornlogs also š
Good morning to you sir !! I haven’t had a peanut log in years !!
Thank you, Professor. It seems I had picked a good week away from the Blog.
Lets us all re-group for the cause.
We all live in different places around the globe. I would love to see each of us, wearing our hoodies and posting the photo with location to show support and the 1 year mark of a teenager who is changing a culture – even in death.
Hoodies on – lets show who we really are on the 26th.
@Grahase
Nice idea.
But it’s not going to happen. Look at what they did to the Prof picture. Let alone show where we are at.
Just shows how naive I am by not even thinking about things like that. I don’t know what they did to the Professors picture and really do not want to know. It is all too sad, so sad.
As I sympathize so deeply for Trayvon’s parents on the first year passed without their beautiful son with them, I think of RIGHTS. Gz, a man with white skin, chose to murder a young teenager because he was black and had no RIGHT to be walking in Gz’s neighborhood.
I hope Trayvon’s family take some comfort in thinking of the fear the murderer will be shaking with as he makes a long walk into a place he has a RIGHT to walk in. As he shivers in fear and gulps at the knowledge he is now allowed to only walk where he is told to and when he is allowed to. As the bars close and the finality of it hits.
The murderer will finally see that it is he who has no RIGHTS to walk where he wants. But, Trayvon always had that RIGHT and the millions of people who say so will keep Trayvon’s name alive as we walk with him in our hearts. Fear is coming for the murderer and this fear will be with him the rest of his life.
Do I hate him? No, I do not hate anyone. I just do not want his name being the one that is the one plastered all over the internet to be researched in years to come. I want it to be Trayvon Benjamin Martin’s photo smiling back at his parents.
Do I want the murderer to know the pain those screams gave as a haunting memory none of us can forget? Yes. Do I have contempt and disgust at those who try to portray the cold blooded murderer as someone worthy of my sympathy. Yes.
The murderer has no RIGHT to walk free in my neighborhood. The United States of America’s justice system will make sure of this. And this country is my neighborhood.
God bless the Martin family. So many stand behind you and walk with you in thoughts and prayers.
Great Post….I will say “I loathe him and all that he represents”
Me too to all of it.
That’s all he rates…
Wonderful post.
I’m wondering if there is a way ti celebrate the memory of a young man that represents so many others who we never hear about.
And it would be a small small effort on our part, if people wished to come together to agree, to unify against a day of any recognition for this non-name fogen, no mention of him, his doings, his family, his gun, or his lies and excuses.
One day without allowing ourselves to put thoughts of the killer over the victim, on the first anniversary of the loss of Trayvon Benjamin Martin.’
This may be too much to ask, but what a good message, the day ONLY for the victim, not a word to show thought of the fogen or his family.
They will no doubt try to take the day for themselves but it will be as false and shallow and misplaced, to acknowledge their friend’s killing day by using the victim to do it.
Only a suggestion, and there could be a back thread for any ‘just can’t help it’ posts.
Thoughts?
I think that is a WONDERFUL idea!
Love this post!
Race, that’s wonderful!
I love family hugs…..and I’ll ask about a “vigil” and memorial. I think if we start at 6:30 we can all chime in and then take a few minutes of silence.
6:30 EST?
If the Professor Ok’s it.
Thanks, Rachel.
The anniversary of Trayvon’s death means much to me. That his murderer is still free hurts. It means a renewal of energy to be vocal about condemning the horrific and senseless manner of Trayvon’s death. It means that justice takes too long. It means I will wear my hoodie proudly. It means I will bow my head. It means I will get angry and probably cry. It means I will not stop trying to find a way to get justice for Trayvon. It means I will mourn for and with his family.
It is day that should never be.
That night, I will log in at the given time if we decide to meet and join our cyber vigil. I do hope someone organizes this.
As I have mentioned here before, I have a baby-faced 6’5″ 250 pound 17-year-old son. I tell him or text him several times a day that I love him, and he responds with the same sentiment to me. Sometimes he initiates the exchange.
On Tuesday morning, the anniversary of Trayvon’s death, I will wake up a little earlier, make all my son’s favorites for breakfast, give him a really big hug, stare him in the eyes to really get his attention, and tell him I love him.
That morning, I will than my creator for allowing my son to see another day and for allowing me to hold him again.
Diary
My son is 20, married, 2 beautiful daughters, but he texts me every morning with thank you and every night with I love you. He does not live with me because he is married, has 2 beautiful daughters and lives 60 miles away, but your idea has made me decide I will get up early and take him, just him, out to breakfast and like you, hold him tight and tell him I love him and am so proud of the man he has become.
And my heart will ache for Trayvon and his family for not having that chance.
Way Kool about tight family bonds. My 14 year old says at least 20 times a day…..hey dad needs a hug…..family hug time…..mom, go hug dad…..dad, go hug mom, and not just because he wants something.
Rachel- do so! Men of quality are rare (example GZ and his fan base). Thank you for raising such a man. Our world is richer for the two of you being in it.
Sent from my iPod
Diary- Amen. Hug him for me as well. š
Sent from my iPod
Really, I wonder why Geraldo still has the “kishkas” to comment on the Trayvon Martin case at all after his idiotic statement about “blame the hoodies” that even his son gave raspberries to. Why doesn’t he stick to stuff he can do like — uh — well, why doesn’t he just go blah blah blah.
In case he needs a little refresher course:
When that Neo Nazi Skinhead bashed him in the head with that chair, it knocked the sense out of him.
The whole point of a hoodie is to cover one’s head with when it gets cold or it is raining and they do not have an umbrella
And just because someone is suspicious of someone, it does not necessarily mean the person that one considers suspicious is guilty of a crime
Either way, I do not feel Fogenhats felt Trayvon was suspicious
I think Fogenhats was wanting to act out his fantasy and needed someone to frame to make his fantasy real
I TOTALLY agree with your last sentence……..really just how sick is fogen?
“……really just how sick is fogen?”
Shall I count the ways……
DUDE…..I’m serious…..the guy has been a fuck up, control freak, failure all his adult life
(Info on his childhood would be very interesting, as to how far back this behavior goes?)
Add to that pathological liar…..I mean having a graduation party for yourself when you know it’s a lie?
The graduation party is so freaking laughable and Osterman put it on ………….
We could go through this failure of a lump of shit for hours and never repeat ourselves.
In your post about what it takes to be a man I’d also add “accomplishment” What do you have to show for your life ?? It’s not about how fast I can run, how many runs I scored in Little League…..but did you have a positive influence on everyone you interact with??
In Fogens case………
“Either way, I do not feel Fogenhats felt Trayvon was suspicious”
Same here….he was almost reading a script and was on a mission.
He’s obviously a weirdo when he is not an authorized officer and he goes around stalking people pretending to be officer Johnson of SPD in his own movie
But if you notice the circumstances, he targeted someone that would have no chance against him
– a teenage kid
– a kid that really does not look scary at all
– a teenage kid physically smaller than him
– he had a vehicle, weapon, tactical and mental advantage over
IMO, he’s really no different than any other predator, as all predators seek out people that are not strong to become their victims
I think it is really strange he was molesting a dead kid’s body after murdering the kid
“- a teenage kid
– a kid that really does not look scary at all
– a teenage kid physically smaller than him
– he had a vehicle, weapon, tactical and mental advantage over
IMO, heās really no different than any other predator, as all predators seek out people that are not strong to become their victims….”
In the long run….he picked on the wrong kid….he never figured Trayvon was just a normal kid….Tracy & Sabrina……being strong, intelligent, dignified and classy……
III=> Tick – Tock <=III Justice for Trayvon….and my hoodie is up !
Agree completely, Jun. Furthermore, to back up his fantasy and do double-duty to make himself the blameless hero again after killing a defenseless unarmed kid, Fogen THEN elaborated and elaborated, making the fantasy more and more cinematic as he lied to police, coworkers, doctors, lawyers, and Indian Chiefs (Notice: this is an expression and not a racial slur). Finally, he had a completed [impossible] fantasy in place. Innocent, helpful to police, protective of his neighborhood, ambushed, abused, victimized, nearly killed, heroically saving his own life at the last minute with his trusty side-arm but STILL, only firing one bullet, and then, starting the “yessir” “nossir” routine to show how all-American and upstanding he is. Embroider, embellish, elaborate enhance exaggerate EEEEEEEEE-NUFF!
Notice to Fogen: Not credible. Quite silly, actually. Not “coincident” with the physical evidence. Not gonna fly. But hey, you’re still allowed to keep your fantasy. In that fantasy, you were up to “good,” you were the “good” guy, and here comes a guy (just happens to be Black, but hey, that didn’t influence you against him in the slightest, since you, after all, organized a whole town to defend Sherman Ware) who just happens to be “bad” and who decides for no good reason to hurt poor “good” you, and he causes “good” you to have to take his “bad” life, but even then, you’re really sorry that his parents had to bury him because [I hope I remember this one correctly because it was a gem] you love your as-yet-unborn children.
Hmmmm. Keep your fantasy, Fogen. You’re allowed to keep that fantasy under the terms of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. I support your right to keep believing it and to keep selling it to people like Jeralyn Merritt and Alan Dershowitz who appear to want to buy it. Homie.
Oh that reminds me.
In your fantasy, first Trayvon Martin said to you: “What’s your fucking problem, homie?” Within a few days when Serino asked you specifically if Trayvon Martin had said the word “homie,” you answered that you didn’t know. So let me ask you this: if in fact you didn’t know if he used the word “homie” or not, how would that word — a rather unusual word for a stranger to use when addressing another stranger — have crept into your first rendition of the exchange between you two strangers? Was it, like other things, an artifact of your own personal imaginary impressions of Trayvon Benjamin Martin that made you think or that made you claim that he called you “homie”? After all, if you didn’t KNOW, why would the word have appeared in any of your narrations about “the suspect”?
Huh? Homie? š
Nothing like a tailor made song….since you mentioned FogenPhoolesPhantasy Life !
Sing along with Aldo !
Sanford nights, winter breeze makes you feel all right
Sanford’s lights, shinin’ brightly make your brain ignite
See the boys with their hoodies so tight
Give them room, stalking them is not alright
Black or white, In the streets there’s no wrong and no right, no.
Outta site, get your kicks with Frank Taaffe tonight
Feels all right, powder pleasure in your waistband tonight
See the men hide their faces and cry
Like some girls, (like some girls) it makes you wonder why
Sanford life, sure its cool, but it cuts like a knife, it’s your life
So Fogen all you see
It’s not reality, it’s just a fantasy
Can’t you see what your crazy life is doin’ to me?
Fogen lives a fantasy, why do you live this fantasy life?
Fogen lives a fantasy, why do you live this fantasy life?
So Fogen all you see
It’s not reality, it’s just a fantasy
Can’t you see what this crazy life is doin’ to me?
Fogen lives a fantasy, why do you live this fantasy life?
Fogen lives a fantasy, why do you live this fantasy life?
Fogen lives a fantasy, why do you live this fantasy life?
Fogen lives a fantasy, why do you live this fantasy life?
I know, I know
The one year anniversary will be the hardest for Trayvon family.I am happy they will be around alot of people during this time. They are a strong family.I hope when Fogen is in prison,we don’t forget about them.We still have to help them with the stand your ground law. Since I been reading this blog,I see when someone mention the treehouse on here that’s when the hate starts here. I say lets keep the treehouse out of this,they love to see us fight with one another.Don’t mention that name nomore. We need to keep focus on the case,an not the smoke screen. Everyone here makes good points here dealing with this case.
Good post and you are right.
Thank you Rachael,by reading your comments on this blog I can tell you are a kind loving lady.
Another thing…Geraldo recently stated that the Trayvon Martin case is divided by racial lines. This doesn’t seem so in my experience. I am 51 years old and caucasian. The majority of my friends, mostly caucasion are on the side of Trayvon. I believe it follows morew of a liberal/conservative divide. I’m not sure…just my experience. BTW, I’m blue as the wide open sky
!
I’m a 57 year old white male and all of my friends and hundreds of customers say the same thing. The only racial issue they see is when he says….well we all know what he said that night.
We see a racist who committed a murder. Geraldo must have lost his mind some years back when that Neo Nazi skinhead smacked him upside the head.
If he was right, the majority of whites would be at the Outhouse and donating BUT the evidence is so strong I’d say that this is divide along “Common Sense” lines.
I’ve heard that too, but I don’t know where it comes from – except maybe racists. And I too am Caucasian and I have had the same experience as you among Caucasian people I know.
People who see this as a pure race thing are largely racists like Fogen and his crowd. Most of us understand this as a stalking of an unarmed teen conducted by a low-life menace who wanted to be a community hotshot. Right away.
Granted, if Trayvon had looked like a young Troy Donahue or Owen Wilson, the predator likely would have waited to gun down quarry more prime to fit his own racial stereotypes.
I do think black parents are correct in worrying that their children are more at risk on the streets, given notions of even many black law enforcement officers … and, of course, pigs like Fogen, forever blathering about their own racial make-up — white, black, whatever — as if it matters.
Hearts shattered by bullets bleed red. And dead is dead. Fogen needs to sleep on his irreversible trigger pull every night for the rest of his miserable life.
Geraldo’s mustache cuts off blood circulation to his brain
The fact of the matter is this issue only divides people who are racist
The rest just see an injustice that a person was killed
@Jun
>>>>Geraldoās mustache cuts off blood circulation to his brain
LMAO
Economy of words….a lot said there…..
I’m caucasian too and those who would like to promote their supremacist messages, must have a belief that ‘we’ must all think ‘like them’. They are in the minority and have no place trying to encompass others in their ignorance, hatred and bigotry.
When I was on HP and finally stated I am white, you have no idea what the Zidiots called me. My stance looked to be from a XXXX and not one of them could accept that us “lily white folks” would even dare to support this cause…..let alone admit that in public.
M y goal is to strive to have the grace and dignity of Trayvon Martin’s parents.I am a 67 year old white woman I came from a have not province where we used to say when we went to weddings everyone was related even the bride and groom.When I look back on our history I wonder who in hell do we think we are just because were’re white.My Mother told me once kids from all over the world want exactly the same thing I do.I don’t understand what it takes away from us the color or beliefs of others.Where I work the customers and staff are from all over I feel very lucky.Nothing will bring Trayvon back but at least let his parents have justice for his murder.
no idea, where this sentence was meant to go, in any case it seems to have a curious twist at the end now:
and one [campaign] that tries to reduce it to just another story happening everyday without anybody ever paying attention and
deservedlyand rightfully no one pays attention, [since it is only about] turning Fogen into the victim. Created by a lynchmob mindset that does not see that “some blacks” really hate whites. As a blog owner with whom I clashed on the issue wrote to me in a private mail.I pretty sure though there must be two campaigns, otherwise you wouldn’t find the same type of arguments in the pro-Fogen camp all over the place.
From a defense perspective the more time passes the better for them, and that seems the ultimate motive behind continuance motion.
ay2z~ And I’m a white Hispanic, and I thing GZ is guilty as SIN!
“ay2z~ And Iām a white Hispanic, and I thing GZ is guilty as SIN!”
A guilty as SIn Afro – Peruvian….
operacarla, racer, I am close to 63 female and white. But I remember there were a series of polls suggesting a divide by racial lines. I suddenly found myself in a white minority as others here may have at the time.
What we would need to know much more about is the specific poll designs. And to what extend these polls were used and meant to support the hype of the “evil media” campaign, or the threat of “racial riots” on the horizon, and the whole accompanying evil black propagandist themes? Didn’t the polls help to create news about the case being of concern of Black Americans only or at least mainly?
The old divide and conquer rule works just as well as in Machiavelli’s times.
Isn’t the very design misleading if it compares black responses to white ones to start with? Whose perspective were they helping? Didn’t the news about these polls suggest to every white American, a black boy’s dead maybe should not concern me however indirectly?
I think it is pretty obvious that while defense now argues that there has been an evil media campaign against poor GZ, I am pretty sure if you look a little closer and study it more carefully you will find two clashing campaigns. One about the “evil media” campaign by special interest groups and accompanying themes, as O’Mara suggests and one that tries to reduce it to just another story happening everyday without anybody ever paying attention and deservedly no one pays attention to turning Fogen into the ultimate victim. The latter can be easily supported by a widespread distrust in mainstream media.
Polls may be both a barometer of public opinion and by it’s designs an attempt to create news and thus influence it. I have witnessed them used in this way in my work.
Sorry this belongs down here or my correction above.
Sorry, but to target the evil media campaign by taking a closer look at the campaign on the other side seems highly interesting to me. That’s why I am wasting much space again. š
Sometime around late summer, a poll was going around on the internet and I got it and you had to vote on 2 things.
1) Did you think there was enough evidence to show Fogen was attacked.
2) Did you feel he would be convicted.
The poll was over 90% for a guilty verdict. The funniest thing was one of the Zidiots on HP stated he would never be convicted as this was not unanimous… Huh?? We had at least 50 posts back & forth about this. He thought this must have been a jury vote. Nobody could make him understand this was a poll, not a jury vote.
Gotta Love Zidiot mentality.
Race….My friend……think of all the other things you could have done with your time once you realized you were arguing with a rock?
Kinda like pissin’ in the wind…
Let me say…it was a day I had nothing important to do and I learned new expressions to use on Zidiots.
It really was quite comical, and was over a 24 hour period.
Strange that the “evil media campaign” started out with a completely false report about all the crime in the RTL neighborhood, planted in the media on 3/15/2012 by the Sanford Police Department, isn’t it? And now that we have the information proving that report to be all wrong, nobody wants to cover it? What, not evil enough? šæ
Uh, pissing in the wind is not exactly like arguing with a rock. But we should definitely do a study of it. All the participants of the Outhouse should piss into the wind while all of us over here should argue with rocks, and then at the end, we should tabulate the results to see if they break down along racial lines. If so, we can notify Geraldo immediately and Robert Junior can go on TV giving his expert opinion. š
The one year anniversary of the death of Trayvon Benjamin Martin gives me hope. Race relations in this country have been clearly shown to be nowhere near where Dr. Martin Luther King had hoped we would be. I use the word hope because Trayvon’s MURDER has caused a lot of people tro take a look at SYG laws and discuss racial profiling. No matter what side you are on these topics have been discussed. Trayvon was in my opinion killed while “walking while black”. I do believe that Trayvon’s MURDER will help racial sensitivity grow to a higher level. I’m sure that offers little comfort to his dignified family. I will always honor the memory of Trayvon Benjamin Martin. I will try to honor his memory by maintaining courteousness towards anyone I encounter, no matter how hard that might be. Including keeping my harsh words and ill intentions towards GZ! (You are right Professor, a higher road only helps to HONOR TRAYVON!)
Justice for Trayvon!!
Coming up to the anniversary of the killing of Trayvon Martin, I am thinking about what it means to take away a person’s constitutional rights under color of state law, and most of all, what it means to take away the interests they have in the preservation of those rights. Although we have had 200+ years of liberty interest litigation, and 250 years of property interest litigation, not one “life interest” litigation has ever been brought into our federal courts, and I think it is about high time.
Trayvon Benjamin Martin did not just have a liberty interest in walking home from the 7-11 on 2/26/2012; he did not just have a property interest by proxy from Brandi Green in the quiet enjoyment of the home where he was an invited guest; he had a LIFE interest in not being “reported” as “suspicious” and “up to no good.” He had a LIFE interest in not being stalked and terrorized. He had a LIFE interest in the protection of the police department, which had already been put on notice twice or more times that there was a danger in that community as a result of Fogen’s armed “patrols.” He had a LIFE interest in not being subjected to illegal restraint and in not being subjected to “enhanced interrogation” by any person without due process of laws. He had a LIFE interest in choosing to speak on the phone with his girlfriend instead of running for cover as if he was in a war zone. He had a LIFE interest in not being threatened with great bodily harm for being bewildered, nonresponsive or perhaps in being responsive in a way that displeased his assailant, who had appointed himself his ruler.
Trayvon Benjamin Martin had a life interest in never even MEETING Fogen that night. He had not gone out to meet Fogen and Fogen had no right to insert himself into Trayvon’s life; Trayvon had a right, and a LIFE interest in that right, to have never had the displeasure of coming face to face with Fogen.
If there is no such life interest on the part of any person in this country, all the other rights are weakened, diluted, and can be canceled without notice at any time by anybody and we better be damned sure we understand that.
In Jewish tradition, the most time that a person who has died can possibly spend outside the presence of divinity, if those who have lost him advocate for his soul by prayer and/or memory, is a year minus one day. That is to say that if Trayvon were a Jew, other Jews would say that the one-year mark after his death is a resolution of all earthly problems and stressors and that the “yahrzeit” or “year’s time mark” is the real liberation (“graduation”) of his soul. All those kinds of beliefs are way beyond me; I don’t do that kind of thinking. I mention it only because it does seem very humane and I would wish that the “yahrzeit” feeling of resolution and peace could be forever associated with the name Trayvon Benjamin Martin, dob 2/5/1995, regardless of what happens now or in the future to his name-forgotten killer.
If there is any humanity in George Michael Zimmerman, he will tune in to this blog on the evening of 2/26/2013 and read carefully every single comment and article, and he will try to reach down into his own psyche and find there an undefended, unmitigated feeling of sadness, shared sadness, and real unfaked remorse, for the killing of Trayvon Benjamin Martin, whose name he still has never (to my knowledge) said.
Yes. So be it.
Great post, Malisha.
Wonderful post !!
Beautiful post Malisha… what this blog is all about!
Well said
Very good comment Malisha, I wondered a lot about that too.
Malisha, I think he did utter his name, with this tiny voice of his when challenged by Serino about Trayvon’s identity. Did he know, whom he had shot? I am not quite sure, but it feels he said: Trayvon Benjamin Martin. Trayvon’s name may have been in the news at that point in time.
Besides you are simply the best, and I do not in any way want too say that the rest of the people here don’t deserve that label, but you catch most often the core of my feelings.
What your little excursus into Jewish religion reminds me of, is that it was some type of revelation to me when a Shakespearean one of my favorite Profs once in passing said: Religion is the most profound source of humankind’s experiences in dealing with dead. As a basically skeptic it caught me by surprise.
I was more concentrated on the other side of religion up to that point in time. The more collective expression and curious twists in Christian religion to merge the “love for the enemy” with the idea of a “Just War” against God’s enemies on earth. The middle ages gave a face to enemy as Jews, Muslim and Heretics. Or Witches? Semites both on the outside and their mutation to inner enemies at home. “Unbelievers” in the reign of God on earth. I feels to me that the Conservative Treehouse belongs into this camp of “warriors for God”. Or are their “prayer requests” only some type of camouflage? It feels that is the religious type I have always been very, very suspicious of. And which I do not consider religious at all. They only dress themselves in superficial religious cloth while not respecting the life of the however defined Other. …
I have a term for them
Hypochristians
Yes, Fogen could be quickly transformed if he chooses to accept his actions and regrets them.
Thanks for a beautiful post. That’s a beautiful Jewish tradition.
as we approach the one year anniversary of the shooting on 2/26, I try to focus on some of what has gone right since that awful night: against the odds in that locality, and mostly due to public outcry, GZ was charged and is being held accountable for taking Trayvonās life; GZ has been taken off the street for the past year(I regard him as a danger to the community-any community!); and, some light has peeked through on racial issues in Sanford, Fl- both at RATL and the SPD. I have heard, and I believe, there is no closure for parents who lose a child; I only hope that Trayvonās parents and loved ones believe that some good will come out of their huge sacrifice and loss, and, that some universal good actually does survive their legal matters surrounding his death.
Thank you for your focus.
I agree on both this would help and there can never be a complete “closure”, there can only be some type of life goes on for the family.
Strictly isn’t it interesting how deeply human sacrifice is embedded in our culture, doesn’t the hope that the case will change something turn him into some kind of sublime sacrifice? Make his dead less wasteful?
There is something deeply wrong with the argument on the other side, that there are many shooting that leave dead corpses with the public hardly ever worrying and the idea that it is only the evil media that created the interest to start with. There is no way Trayvon’s story could have created interest, if people could not connect as easily with his fate as they quite obviously do.
Thus what exactly motivates the other camp. I am not sure I completely understand.
I find the evil-media an interesting argument compared with the media marching in lockstep during the Bush jun reign on the War on Terrorism. If you allow me to compare that as a foreign observer looking in concerning the more recent media history.
The creation of the image of a collective national/international enemy may well have resulted in more easily added other enemies on home ground. The Muslim enemy had from the very start some self-fulfilling component, that’s why the WOT was meant to be continued for years to come.
I admittedly would like to read Jeralyn Merritt’s argument, why GZ did not perceive Trayvon as some type of enemy in spite of what he said during his NEN-call.
If I am correct, the Iraq war started to be a topic on Jeralyn’s blog founded in 2002 from from Feb. 17, 2007 on. Am I to assume that before that date she fully supported the Iran war, never mind the many tricks and lies used to start it? If the lives of many Iraqi’s don’t matter how can a single life, like Trayvon’s?
Bonnie, “crazed haters” are those who do not believe the story being told by the dominant poobah. When I run across that mindset I just leave it alone, and try to prevent myself from making an internalized argument against the non-sequiturs involved. The Outhousers would have it that promoting the prosecution of a killer (yes, he is the killer and he is the gunman, even though he is just the ALLEGED murderer so far) is hateful. They would have it that Trayvon Martin’s family should have accepted the idea that their son got what he deserved so they should not complain. To act otherwise, in the minds of the Outhousers (forgive the oxymoron), is hateful. And crazed. So, well, HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!
I checked their blog yesterday and found they are trying to fight “hatespeak” and “racism”. Which I admittedly find quite funny considering the tendency of their articles.
Maybe we partly function all to a certain extend that way. We all see more easily the bias of the other side.
But I wonder if you could create such a persona, or character. š Someone that manages to twist his head into the perception of the justice for Trayvon Martin into a collective “Lynchmob”.
The title of a chapter in Knox’ book. I have no idea why the book has no content page. But find it curious since he has distinctive chapter titles. Doesn’t he want people to get an easy grasp of his book by simply checking the contents page after reading it?
He follows the evil-media campaign by team Fogen to the dot. Interesting “expert”, no doubt. Obviously media didn’t have solid information and occasionally may have picked up rumors. We are all fallible. But it is interesting to watch someone point it out and then adding minor mistakes of his own. These supposedly more “enlightened” or expert GZ supporters are much more interesting to me than team “outhouse”.
Isn’t this highly ironical that he on one hand discovers that Davenport is not quite correct and than adds something, supposedly more based on facts, which isn’t quite correct either?
Is there someplace I need to apply to be a “Crazed Hater” or does just making a Team Trayvon oriented comment suffice.
Apparently just being Team Trayvon is enough to merit disrespect.
Sent from my iPod
I guess being a Charter Member of Team Trayvon gets me that standing then.
I want a position with Team Trayvons Special Forces š
You can start one up. I’m sure there will be the need for Special Forces starting about……say, a months from the trial date. Those Zidiots can be an unruly bunch…..predictable……but unruly.
Time to dust off the Gillie suit š
Stealth……is what wins…..along with knowledge and greater firepower.
Our court date is next Monday……..so many traps laid….(using their own documents)…..so much full frontal artillery…(They’re documented lies)….They aren’t gonna know what hit them…….
I will not be the least bit surprised if they don’t end up with criminal charges……Fraud…..Elder abuse…..Making false statements to police to further threaten, intimidate an elder……The very day AFTER they were served the papers….
Matter of fact, that’s my end goal……..if an acceptable resolution can’t be reached before hand…….Just depends how stupid (fogen) these people really are?
Keep me updated. You’re handling this Pro Se or do you have a lawyer ? The ones we are suing are backed into a corner and there is no way out. You know they are desperate when one of the lawyers they have been through, and there are many, says
“…those bank statement are not proof of any payments..” now picture every lawyer in the gallery waiting for their case to be called, bursting into uncontrolled laughter.
Dude…..I have their payout statements…and a check dated 3 days before an item sold under a different client number than my mates…..on the 31st of December, when they say my mate abandoned them on the 15th…2 weeks prior…..Oh and dated on their statements that the item sold on Dec 11th…..yet all the paperwork and check are dated 3 days before it sold….Dec. 28…..sold Dec. 31st…
Think they got sum ‘splainin to do?……..and this is only for starters š
Did I forge them?………not with their little corporate seal embossed in each document š
Got ’em by the balls?…..their hearts and minds are sure to follow…
Well maybe not in fogens case……?
Nothing like taking on a big one and smoking them badly.
I wonder how this will all end.
I don’t visit the treehouse, only HP and many of GZ’s defenders always write if he is found not guilty there will be riots. I don’t believe there will be riots by Trayvon supporters, but not so sure about the GZ defenders.
I really wonder if some of his supporters are mentally ill.
The latest spiel by one is that anyone who doesn’t believe this was self defense is a “crazed hater” .
That just boggles my mind to believe someone can think that.
>^..^< I consider this blog to be a haven of humanity. I like reading here every day. I don't appreciate unit Ron chiding folks like he's the guru on the mountaintop, hence my animosity towards his condescending remarks. I stay on the high road. Humanly make jokes. Reflectively offer prayers and hope to even SZ should she ever try to change. I will continue to take what I need and leave the rest. And I will be working with my students on the anniversary of an evil murder. I will try to make our world a better place as my memorial to lives cut short through hatred. It doesn't matter if that hatred is directed at black or brown, gay or straight, legal or not, rich or poor; all hatred destroys humanity. Team Trayvon is a barrier against that destruction. I am honored to be here and take this inspiration with me.
Well stated. If I want to read condescending remarks, it won’t be here. And half of the comments seem to be with that “inside joke” mentality….you won’t get it. Boooooooring !
I think unitron only wants the same thing that the Professor mentions, as does BettyKath. No sense in antogonizing anyone further today.
Who is Ron, cielo?
I would like to see what you feel is condescending. I may learn by searching for him. But I would need to know who you mean.
Leander22- “onlyiamunitron” is to whom I refer.
Sent from my iPod
āonlyiamunitronā Thank God there’s only 1
The one year anniversary of the death of Trayvon makes me increasingly sad. As I watch Sybrina and Tracy Martin withstand first the death of their son and then the awfulness that has has ensued with the attempted tarnishing of his reputation, I doubt that I personally could have been as stoic as they have been. I find it truly amazing that every stone,every weapon formed against them has failed to harm them. Both Sybrina and Tracy have had their Facebook photos posted on derogatory sites aimed at defaming them,their son has been called a thug by people who knew him not. I fight steadily for Trayvon because I am unable to listen to his final calls for help and then the gunshot that took his life. The terror that he felt, I feel it personally. I am appalled that Fogen labeled him as a “suspect” in his written statement to SPD…all without a valid reason. The SPD almost got away with excusing this case without the proper inspection. I know that we can not possibly heal the Martin’s wounds and heartbreak… I am inspired by a quote by Fred Rogers…āWhen I was a boy and I would see scary things in the news, my mother would say to me, āLook for the helpers. You will always find people who are helping.ā To this day, especially in times of ādisaster,ā I remember my motherās words, and I am always comforted by realizing that there are still so many helpers – so many caring people in this world.ā ā Mister Rogers. And that my friends are who we are…The Helpers.
Valerie, am not wearing a sweater today, but I want to help George Zimmerman right out of his bullet proof vest and into an prison jumpsuit.
Can I video that…..LLMPapa will be able to do a final analysis !!
And I would gladly assist you !!
I asked to be the videographer….make sure you SMILE !!
We need to figure out what music would go best with the strip and swap. … š
I read that as a nudge and a challenge ….
@Racer
Challenge accepted.
I nominate Music by Madonna
Go to youtube and watch, I feel funny posting it here.
Madonna has a song I can do a rewrite about the finality of prison as a basis…..Pick one and I’ll do my best.
@Racer
WHOOPS!
I read this all wrong
We need to figure out what music would go best with the strip and swap. ā¦ š
I withdraw my submission š³
You had me scared for a minute. I thought you had some “B side” song that was a perfect fit I may have never heard of.
@Racer
Me with my dirty mind only saw strip and swap……
I automatically thought of Madonna’s song Music
Dirty mind now closed. š
You’re dirty mind is closed……naaaaaaaa you keep replaying that spanking you gave me….I can tell !
@Racer
SSSSShhhhhhh
Oppps
Valerie, your post is beautiful.
Thanks Rachael
Prof: Great Post. As you well know I only post on this Blog with regards to scientific information. I do not have the time or patience to get into name calling, bashing, etc. I ignore those quotes which do. I believe the main reason for this Blog is to obtain Justice for Trevon Martin. In the scientific world I have been called names, had my credibilty questioned, etc. I continued on knowing there were others engaged in the same science who beleived as I did. So, I agree with you that this Blog should be focused on intellectual comments, speaking out on how we can assist the case to show that Trevon was innocently shot, and Ignore the negative comments.
Well, here’s an intellectual thought for you: His name is Trayvon. In fact, I’ll mention twice, like you did. Trayvon is his name. i
There is a die hard Fogenite on HP that spells Trayvon’s name just like that….every time….he and I have tangled……guess what his name is ??
Oh, Race, I wouldn’t want to guess … would much prefer to be ever so scientific in my identification … š
I’ll bet you do know however.
@William Walton
Please tell me this is a typo. Trayvon was not innocently shot. He was deliberately shot and shot in a manner that would take his life.
Xena, I let that pass, given his failure to even know Trayvon’s name. You are correct to call him on his unscientific error.
Racer, you bet right, even though I’ve never been to the outhouse.
@Xena, It was a typo. I meant to say Trayvon was innocent of any wrong doing when shot. Think faster than I can type.
@William Walton
Thanks for explaining that. You had me worried.
William, I am a bit baffled by the “scientific Michael A Knox approach”. In fact I think the book would be well worth dissecting very, very closely.
One of his arguments is that the first witness statements are always the most reliable ones. Yes, strictly I agree.
But in the given scenario this ignores quite a few facts–scientifically speaking, that could have influenced early statements. There seems to have been quite a bit of chaos on the crime scene. When exactly did Stacie McCoy the on duty supervisor arrive? She claims to have been involved in CPR, but why do the logs of the 7th discovery have her arrive at a time Trayvon was already declared dead for quite some time?
I would like to know to what extend the first written statements were already influenced by officers on the scene that had already made up their minds about what happened. With Ayala desperately trying to get a finger print scanner and even pulling arbitrary case files that suggest to me that he tried to connect unsolved cases with Trayvon. Add to that that all these witnesses observed Fogen surrender to police. Wouldn’t a murderer run? And overheard: I shot the guy in self-defense. And that there quite possibly there were a multitude of chats among the witnesses with one influencing the other. Do we know the time the statements were written. Did Wagner go around and show the photos of GZ and TM he had taken?
So in the given scenario, I am not quite sure the general rule can be applied as neatly as Knox wants me to believe, who claims to be one of only ten something crime scene experts in the US, by the way. Considering his not very impressive book this seems quite a manipulative statement to me.
Isn’t he a bit worried about the really short interviews that Serino conducted that night? But they were no doubt early.
This is just from the top of my head. Strictly, in a way you suggest it yourself, “scientific inquiries” can be just as biased as whatever we call non-scientific.
Serino’s interviews that night should be viewed with great caution and suspicion, in fact, IMO. He TOLD witnesses “facts” about the events they had witnessed, which in my mind means that he disqualified his own witness statements as he took them. The mother of the kid walking his dog gave an interview to the media in which she pointed out that her son was GUIDED during his first interview. Obviously not only Tim Smith but others on the scene (neighbors, friends of Fogen’s, HOA members, police, who knows who all else?) were running around promoting their own version of the events and selling their own positions. When a cop tells you something, you tend to think its provenance is valid. A careful examination of what was said and done that night might have to wait for the completion of the FBI investigation into the SPD and others, and it even might have to wait for the resolution of the civil suits that come rolling in during 2013.
Remember also that at least 2 of the witnesses had to go public and state that they police altered what they actually said that night. One witness was not allowed to have a statement entered that night.
When that hit the fan, is when things got ugly for Fogen.
I actually do not have a high respect for Knox, given his ability to overlook circumstances and evidence to write his conclusions and contradict himself throughout and actually not place a conclusion without a reasonable doubt
A witness’ first statements are vital and reliable only because it can help prove the truth of the matter because once it is all said and done, it shows you which witness is actually reliable and truthful and which one is not but I would not say it is reliable in the sense in that it is always the correct and the truth
We witnessed this with witness 6
His very first statement to police was that they were wrestling and the black guy was shot. Witness 18 specified the same wrestling on her phone call call to police 911. Then that story morphed with witness 6 when he gave his testimony.
Then you have Fogenhats
His ultra first statement to police was that he was stalking a kid he deemed a “punk” and suspicious, and he began chasing this kid, and later on it was found out he was doing so with a gun
Then later in regards to the actual incident and shooting part of the issue, the struggle, Fogenhats clearly lied, when lined up with actual forensic evidence
Leander22, scientific inquiries can be biased only if the individual involved in an observation takes that obsevation as the only one possible. Eye witnesses in this case went by sound rather than sight since it was dark and raining. In scientific experimentation, when something is observed, we ask ourself, is that what I obseved or something I wanted to observe. So we go back and repeat the experiment and once again record our observations. To further substantiate what was observed we have another scientist conduct the same experiment. We then compare notes on the obsevations and if both match, then the experiment was a viable one. Unfortunately, this cannot be completed in this case. However, I think that a re-inactment into what GZ says happened would shed much light on this case, of course minus the gun. Keep in mind the scientific experiments are conducted under a well lighted environment..
William,
If you read the witness statements, they definitely did go by what they saw as well as what they heard, although I agree that the darkness would have caused some problems in what they could see.
Several people, on this blog and elsewhere, have tried to duplicate some aspects of the GZ’s story of “Trayvon straddling GZ and banging his head on the ground”, using people of similar sizes to Trayvon and GZ, to see whether the story was plausible. Is that the kind of reenactment that you had in mind?
I would like Trayons spirit to find peace in his one year anniversary with the conviction of his killer so that he may rest and his family can finally have closure.
It may be more than one year, but little by little I hope they can come closer to peace. Although I always remember Sybrina saying she felt like she was losing her mind, and I wished there were some way to be of help.
X2
@Cercando:
As a mother myself of three, 2 girls and a boy who is coincidentally 17. I wish I could give Sybrina and Tracy a hug and tell them that, “I am sorry for your loss.” It sounds so hollow though. There entire life has been altered because of Fogen. They will never get to see Tray grow up, go to college and graduate school, get married and have children or live the dream that he was aspiring to be. They just have the memories of him. I cannot imagine losing any of my children before I pass away from this earth. It is to difficult for me to even fathom. I have become even closer to my children since this tragedy. It frightens me that someone can profile my son, think that he is a gang member, follow him, question him, and then decide to kill him due to my being a man who has anger issues and being a Socio-path.
The one-year anniversary makes me think of Trayvon’s parents and their graciousness even through a lot of sorrow from losing him and to top that they need to hear their son’s name maligned. I cannot say I could ever be so kind or restrained as they seem to be in the middle of the side-show created by the Zimmerman team tactics.
x2 jm Thank you
The Spanish say, “sacar fuerzas de la flaqueza” roughly translated, “find strength in your weaknesses…” so IĀ“m sure you would find that restraint and kindness if only to not sully with hate the memory of your dead child.
The anniversary of Trayvon’s death means his family will be in agony once again. This is the first of many Februaries that they will dread.
I’m thinking about how it took barely a second for George to pull that trigger and alter the course of their lives.
I’m thinking about how much Trayvon missed his Mom.
I’m thinking about how 17 year old boys still keep checking the oven to see if what you’re baking is done.
I’m thinking about how Tracy and Sabrina got up that morning of the first hearing and brushed their teeth and fixed their hair, and maybe Tracy even ironed his shirt. Then they went to court to face the man who killed their son.
I’m thinking about how George got all up into their faces and addressed them after they said they didn’t want to hear from him.
I’m thinking about media interference being partially responsible for that perversity. They couldn’t stop asking Sybrina what she would say to George Zimmerman – whether she wanted an apology..(’cause it’s good TV).
I am very, very angry.
I’m thinking about George Zimmerman’s bacon in the slammer; and, I DO mean BACON.
Well stated
“I am very, very angry.” Same here….Make that a resounding
“We are very, very angry”
Thanks for saying this so well
The one year anniversary of Trayvon’s death mean to me, that we are closer to justice than we were a year ago. It makes me thank God for my children, and think of how blessed I really am. I wish that the Martin family will find some peace in knowing that Trayvon lives on in the heart of all of us who call for justice & ask for God to ease their pain.
One year closer…..Yep. I have said this here and elsewhere but I would love to see a “Trayvon Benjamin Martin Day” when blatant racism is properly addressed and somehow “outlawed” in a manner that works. Tall, and maybe impossible order, but……..
I have been frustrated by the repeated delays in this case. But thanks to Judge Nelson, the trial date finally seems to be approaching.
What does the anniversary of Trayvon’s death mean to me? That wheels of justice grind slowly, creating ever more pain for his parents, other family survivors, and friends like DeeDee. But grind they do, and I remain hopeful that those so initially sure of the defendant’s self-defense claim are now seeing that narrative as truly a tangle of liess. Justice for Trayvon will be an extended journey, stretching far beyond the trial itself … and long after the actual name of the incarcerated killer has been mostly forgotten. .
“…That wheels of justice grind slowly, creating ever more pain for his parents, …………….As sad as that is keep in mind that those wheels will grind him to a pulp.
He may try to show that same smirk from time to time, but I think he’s in his own hell about now. Then he has to face a trial, and more than likely a long spell of incarceration.
Yep, Racer. What the smirking defendant did was deplorable enough on its face to do life in the pen .
But capping it off have been comments beyond the pale, none greater than the “God’s plan” remark.
Instead of expressing remorse, this fool also has been heard on jailhouse tapes making a tasteless hoodie joke … contemplating his forthcoming great life …. and blaming his parents for naming him “George” … saying in a taped jailhouse phoner that āI think that honestly all of this couldāve been avoided if my parents wouldāve given me a proper Hispanic/Latino name.ā
Duh, what? Are we to undersand this fool thinks none of us would care that Trayvon died if we’d thought he’d been knocked off by a Hispanic? Or is he suggesting he’d have kept his fat arse in the vehicle if only his name had been Jose?
What is this guy thinking at any given moment? He’s a menace and needs to be put away, preferably for life. .
Not to mention his incredibly callous, despicable, insensitive, brag-ado with his FB entry “..how ’bout “datniggyTB” ”
And his brother thinks telling us Fogen’s nickname was “datniggy” and “TB” stood for Tug Boat…..
So out of the blue he say “how bout datniggyTB” does that mean
“Oh look I shot a kid” like “..How ’bout dem Cowboys..”
No I’ll step out and say it, he meant “Oh look I shot a niggy named Trayvon Benjamin” and I’ll get away with it because, well, nobody will ever read this that will connect the dots…will they?
Didn’t know about the Facebook TB post. That must have been super-sophisticate code for Trayvon Benjamin by our man Fogen, yes, or one of his pals with his FB password? Absolutely jawdropping, no matter what.
He’s damn lucky he’s never been within arms reach of me on that one….(no actual threat intended)
That FB Tugboat name makes me more angry than you can ever ever know. Someone will connect the dots and it will not go unnoticed and no one with any sense would ever believe Jr. that was what it meant. Between that and what he uttered under his breath – it has not gone unnoticed and dots have been connected. I promise.
He’s fooling only himself.
How about a definitive line…Is my use of Fogen and fool, which nobody can say he is not, as in FogenPhoole, offensive?
I admit I loathe him and what he did and the despicable way Trayvon’s life and memory have been treated. Do I go a little overboard……maybe ? But I don’t dissect others posts line by line. That’s what puts one of the defensive.
I pick your brain to learn about my expert gig and can’t thank you enough for how you’ve answered a few of my off topic questions.
Many say worse than I have ever said and I try to stick to using facts, injecting humor when not in bad taste, and an occasional sing
along.
I try not to be inflammatory and if it sounds like it, it is in the eye of the beholder. I am not as clever as those who parody GZ but I enjoy their posts including LLMPapa’s videos which may be viewed as disrespectful to GZ. So I’m not sure what to do now. Because without the humor I think your site maybe a little dry. But that’s just me. I am not as “intellectual” as those who are dissecting the evidence but I love to read about the court appearances where people point out the appearance of GZ and the flaws of MOM and West and see they are observing the same thing I am and it’s not just my personal dislike of GZ & his family and defense team that is coloring my views.
PS: To be honest, I do kind of resent the “holier than thou posts” about how others should post even if they aren’t necessarily addressed directly to me.
“PS: To be honest, I do kind of resent the āholier than thou postsā about how others should post even if they arenāt necessarily addressed directly to me.”
So far, that is the only “issue” I have encountered here. I believe I get along with everybody just fine other than 1.
@jm – I want to apologize for my outburst last night.
Rachael sometimes you just have to vent and you did. I am sorry if you took my post as personally as you did and hope you know how many people care about you.
IMBW, but I donĀ“t think anyone sees “Fogen” as an insult of the type being referred to in the last post and this. Indeed it has a very poignant significance to itĀ“s inventor and those who use it. I donĀ“t use it because I prefer the formal lawyerĀ“s way with initials and have noticed how a couple of bloggers who always use it here do not use it on other blogs using the formal GZ instead.
Again IMBW, but “Fool” to me is not a terrible insult either, in my books, less still if relative to an argument being made. No, IMO it is the constant “nasty” name calling as well as the repeated stereotyping, physical appearance, where they live, whether GZ is illegitimate or not, etc., none necessary for the case and that go against my grain at least, not least because GZ stereotyped Trayvon that night which is what brought about his death.
I don’t believe I have done any nasty name calling if I did, it was rare and in the heat of the moment.
I still have a serious problem with FogenPhoole’s NEN call with the “c” word…..being recorded no less and “..these assholes….they always get away” Who ordained him King of the world ?
Racer, I wasnĀ“t referring to your use or not of nasty names, I was merely trying to answer your doubts with my POV as to whether “Fogen” and “fool” would be considered insults as well as put forward what had been grating on me of late. However, now on the subject to be honest I was shocked at a post of yours a few weeks back about ft which I am sure you know so I wonĀ“t detail further as it has already been posted pro Z sites. I am sure all was in good fun but IMHO it passed the line and that could damage the good name of this blog which would pain me as it is for Trayvon.
I know what you meant….in all reality only 1 has had any issue with anything I’ve said. There is no one more Team Trayvon oriented than I and we all feel that ( a good thing for sure)
The core group has hashed this over, and get the thoughts out and prod more thinking. Them LLMPapa will drop a new video, Lonnie has so much intelligent thinking, as do many. The end result is uncovering the truth and even though we may never know everything that happened……we sure do try !
Sorry, meant to say, no offence meant because I know you are absolutely working for Trayvon with the rest but maybe in the “heat of the moment”, you, me and everyone, if we stop and re-think, it might avoid some things being published that would be best left for our intimate rants.
I can dig that….trust me, the worst I have wanted to say stayed in the “wanted to” file.
JMO
I dont think it is offensive
Ok…..I loathe that PhuckingFogenPhoole
Man………I’m glad you said that…..I feel so much better …Ahhhhhh
Follow..
TY Prof.
Prof, when it comes to inflammatory comments, I try to keep my “spirit” clean and say what I think is true, not because I think it will be hurtful to some party but because I think some party needs to be undressed for what they are and addressed as what they appear to be. I never worry too much about what I say because that is the spirit that drives me.
Excellent and on point,Professor.
To whom it may concern;
If I have given offense in anyway,whether by,scripture quotes,or my sometimes funny jokes,or my recipe for Bleu Cheese salad dressing,I ask your forgiveness. I meant no offense.
well I plan on trying the bleu cheese salad dressing, I for one am never offended by food or a good recipe. I’ll let you know how it comes out….the fat girl in me…lol
Homemade blue cheese salad dressing????? Do share!
Yes, that was it. The salad dressing offended me. LMAO!!!
I need to be offended again, so please post recipe again.
Haven’t been here very long, but can’t think you have ever done that!
Thank you, Professor.
We’ve traveled a long way together and there is still a long walk before us.
But there is a visible light shining in the distance . . . Justice is coming, Travyon!
Let 26 February, 2013 be a celebration of a life that will profoundly and positively affect the physical safety of many youngsters around the world in the years ahead.
Well said thank you.
I don’t know that physical safety is exclusive of emotional well-being, especially when there are issues of trust between friends, family, loved ones. The physical is not enough, it’s easiest for rules and laws and courts and authority to deal with, but it’s not enough.
I’m thinking of Dee Dee’s situation, as an example. Being afraid, scared for yourself and for those you love, fearful all the more because of the abrupt own awakening of your own mortality as someone you have known, liked and loved since early childhood, was gunned down as you talked to him just as you talked to him so many times before, you were there’ with him and then he was gone.
BDLR stood up for Dee Dee and those who have been threatened, it’s time to stand up and protect those who need it.
(and Fogen’s lead counsel says to the judge, ‘trust me’)
I make a Motion we all convene here on the 26th starting at about 6:30 and pay tribute to Trayvon, his family, and all of their close support staff.
Maybe a separate blog dedicated to that ? And Hoodies up !
Response to Race @ 3:02 pm.
Motion Granted.
I will begin a new thread devoted to Trayvon Martin @ 6:30 pm EST on Tuesday, February 26, 2013.
Hoodies Up!
Justice for Trayvon.
Thank You….you have a heart of Gold !
Hoodies UP!!!!
|||=> Tick Tock! <-|||
That too. I think this case will affect law and custom over time, as well as make a profound mark on history.
Doesn’t Xena have a site for that purpose? Blackbutterfly. That would be a super venue.
@Racer – That’s a great idea!
First
mua ha ha a
Sorry what does that mean?
In parlance around here Muaa is a kiss ….correct ?
Supervillain’s evil chuckle.
unitron
Yes. Tzar belted what we call the sinister villian’s evil laugh.
follow
Mwa or mwah is a kiss afaik
How easily we can misunderstand and be misunderstood! I thought the evil mwa hahaha, but then Rachel provided the key to unlocking Tzar’s message.
There has to be a lesson in this!
The true meaning of ‘MWA~’– watch for a minute or so after 1:50 minutes
Too many syllables in the OP to be that.
unitron