Lawyer Games and Trayvon Martin’s “Missing” GPS Data for February 26, 2012

Friday, February 1, 2013

Good afternoon to all of you.

The topic today: Lawyer Games and Trayvon Martin’s “Missing” GPS Data for February 26, 2012.

I have played my fair share of lawyer games over the years and I must admit that the adrenaline rush from winning a round of Gotcha! can become quite intoxicating and addictive. We have what appears to be a splendid game afoot between Mark O’Mara and Bernie de la Rionda.

Allow me to briefly set the stage.

MOM kicked off to BDLR with a Motion to Continue (the trial date). He wrings his hands and whines incessantly for fifteen pages about how the prosecution has so inconvenienced the defense that it cannot possibly be ready to try this case on the scheduled trial date of June 10, 2013.

BDLR’s response paints a very different picture of the prosecution cooperating with the defense by waiving the subpoena requirement and producing its witnesses for deposition only to have MOM cancel entire days of scheduled depositions at the last minute.

Then he kicks him where the Sun don’t shine by asking rhetorically if the real reason MOM filed the defense motion was to get more time to replenish the internet fund.

I urge all of you to read MOM’s motion and BDLR’s response because they are instructive and entertaining.

I am going to focus on one small part of the motion. On page 8, MOM asserts that on January 8th, he was provided with “an enormous amount of additional information” obtained from Trayvon Martin’s cell phone by CelleBrite, a company in New Jersey that claims to be able to obtain logical and physical information from cell phones. The information Cellebrite obtained was in addition to information obtained by the FDLE and a California law enforcement agency.

So far so good. However, there may be a catch. MOM complains that, although he has been provided with GPS data for the month of February 2012, he was not provided with any GPS data for the date of February 26th, the date of the murder. Apparently, the GPS data that has been provided is more accurate than we knew.

Damn! What a teaser. Don’t you hate it when that happens?

If I were O’Mara, I would proceed very cautiously because it looks and feels like gossamer-thin ice, a trap set for the unwary in the Gotcha! game.

I noticed that BDLR did not respond to MOM’s claim that the GPS data for the only date that matters in this case is missing.

I commented earlier:

“We have no choice except to wait until the Tuesday court hearing, because neither BDLR nor the FDLE have responded in writing regarding O’Mara’s claim about the “missing” GPS phone data for 2/26.

My best guess now, given MOM’s characterization of the data that was retrieved by CelleBrite, the New Jersey company that specializes in retrieving information from cell phones, as “an enormous amount of additional information” (i.e., additional to the information obtained by FDLE and a California LE agency), is that that information annihilates the defendant’s narrative of what happened.

In other words, Game, Set, Match!

Assuming I am right, that would be a rather brilliant strategic move by BDLR to put MOM in a position where he publicly demands to know something that BDLR will now reveal in open court on Tuesday, thoroughly demolishing the defense.

The defense may need to have an ambulance standing by at the ready.”

It’s not as if the defense has not asked for such rude treatment. MOM’s behavior must be especially galling to BDLR, who is limited to responding in court to issues properly before the court. MOM’s incessant whining, added to his blatantly dishonest effort to try the case in the court of public opinion would try Job’s patience, and I do not get the feeling that BDLR is a patient man.

Wise man say:

If you keep drawing a target on your chin while daring your enemy to hit you, sooner or later he will break your jaw and put you in the hospital.

This thinly disguised effort to get more time to replenish the defense coffers by falsely blaming the prosecution for the need to continue the trial date may have been the last straw.

After all, as with all of his miseries, the defendant has only himself to blame.

Any complaint about lack of money should draw a comment about the $100 grand that went to a bail bondsman because the defendant and his wife lied to the Court about their funds.

Any complaint about being pressed for time and needing a continuance should draw a comment that the multiple month delay last summer was caused by the defendant and his wife lying to the Court about their funds.

Back in December we saw BDLR fire a couple of shots across the defense bow with his reference to two identifiable voices in the background of a 911 call and his reference to Chris Serino’s multiple capias drafts recommending that the defendant be charged with murder 2 and eventually manslaughter. That silenced MOM until last week when he moved for the continuance.

Whether or not this is a Gotcha! game, the prosecution has to turn over all exculpatory information that it has as well as all information obtained from the phone that it intends to introduce at trial. I seriously doubt that any information obtained from that phone is exculpatory. I believe the information from 2/26, assuming that it has been retrieved from the phone, will be introduced at trial. Therefore, the prosecution must provide it.

If they were unable to retrieve it, they are going to have to explain why.

I do know this: If the defendant had not squandered so much money and defense counsel had used it for its proper purpose and retained a phone technology expert, we might not be having this conversation.

Assuming I have called this one right, BDLR will have delivered a mighty fine birthday present to Trayvon and his family on his 18th birthday.

377 Responses to Lawyer Games and Trayvon Martin’s “Missing” GPS Data for February 26, 2012

  1. Sdunn, you lost me. What document? The one by the FDLE seems legit and very well-written.

  2. There is a question that I have not read yet, which again points toward O’Mara’s desire to play this case out in the public: Did O’Mara send a formal query to the state or to FDLE about what might have happened to the Feb. 26 data, or did he simply respond to concern through the now infamous motion? In other words, did e even try to ask anyone first? I assume that will be a question her honor might have for him.

    • Lynn says:

      MOM has a tendency to forget to send formal querys to FDLE. Check the first argument on pg3. This was filed on the 1st and they don’t sound happy with MOM.

      Click to access fdle_memo.pdf

      • Cercando Luce says:

        “In addition to not serving FDLE, it appears the defendant has also refrained from serving the witnesses whose privacy the defendant seeks to invade.”

      • sdunn5 says:

        Do you also find it interesting this so-called response is not written by the FDLE it is a O’Mara type Comes now the FDLE….come on now the only link to this weird document is thru Gzlegalcase. Now that a gander at the 18th Judicial Circuit and look for his more recent filings…should this not be appearing as the latest filings in this case? Well I see the last filing was of notice of taking Depositions 1-23-13. I guess he is not observing that little pesky 48 hour rule. Slippery Wabbit!!

  3. Lonnie Starr says:

    The only thing I would feel safe to venture a guess about, with regard to GPS, is that it will probably show us that GZ has once again lied.

  4. Malisha says:

    I couldn’t resist.

    Psalm 9, a Psalm of David (Malisha translation) (since there’s no copyright on the Bible):

    I thank the LORD for being powerful,
    for he’s always on my side.

    So, Junior. Like your brother, you think the killing of Trayvon Martin was God’s plan, huh?

    This makes me happy,
    So I sing praises to him.

    So I’m not worried about my brother getting convicted or anything like that.

    My enemies turn back;
    they stumble and perish because I have this trump card.

    So even though it looks bad and O’Mara says we’re not really winning, we are gonna win, we are gonna win, we are, we are, we are….

    For the LORD is on my side.
    And someone on MY SIDE is my judge.

    This little thing with Judge Nelson — it can’t last. If she won’t do what we want her to do, the Lord will send some other judge and we’ll get rid of her and we’ll get it straightened out. Just you wait and see.

    You have rebuked everyone who was against me;
    you have blotted out their names!

    Yeah, like DeeDee, see? Her name even got blotted out after they doxed her! It was some other imposter! These racist Blacks can’t last!

    Endless ruin is what my enemies always get!
    Their cities are destroyed; they are annihilated!
    Nobody even remembers them.

    Yeah. If they don’t give my brother a SYG and let us off the hook, there’s gonna be a city destroyed. I guarantee it. Y’all better be damn careful!

    The LORD reigns forever;
    he is the biggest judge of all.

    Nelson? Lester? Nobody can last. We’ll keep going until we get a real proFogengoddie up there.

    He rules the whole world
    and by definition, his judgment is always fair.

    And his judgment is gonna be, “Self-defense” because the thug was trying to unfairly murder my brother and God and a kal-tec saved him with a mighty hand and an outstretched thumb.

    The LORD is a refuge for the oppressed,
    to whom they turn when they’re in trouble.

    And we decent Americans are really feeling oppressed when you start saying racist thugs are allowed to have the law on their side just ’cause they got killed.

    Those who understand this never have to feel fear,
    Because when they’re afraid, they just turn to you.

    Yeah, we don’t have to feel fear. Of course, I don’t understand how come we had all those security agents running around if we weren’t feeling fear, but whatever…

    Sing the praises of the LORD, enthroned in Zion;
    proclaim his power to everyone.
    For he who avenges blood remembers;
    he does not ignore the cries of the afflicted.

    So when my bro cried for three days after Trayvon Martin passed, the Lord must have decided to avenge him against all those nasty Trayvonites. Just you wait.

    LORD, see how my enemies persecute me!
    Have mercy and lift me up from the gates of death,
    that I may declare your praises
    in the gates of Daughter Zion,
    and there rejoice in your salvation.

    Yeah. Sharpton and all those hoodie marchers, they were all persecuting me and my family and that’s how come we are gonna get salvation any minute now…as soon as O’Mara can finish all that work he has to do and gets all those experts and gets a decent color picture of my brother’s nose…

    The nations have fallen into the pit they have dug;
    their feet are caught in the net they have hidden.

    Right. So they can’t keep hiding the pings.

    The LORD is known by his acts of justice;
    the wicked are ensnared by the work of their hands. [murmuring, Selah]

    Those wicket Black racists. How dare they object to the killing of one vicious thug! Just you wait. [mum-ble-mum-ble-mum-ble, Sell-a-thank-you-card.]

    The wicked go down to the realm of the dead,
    all the nations that forget God.

    Yeah, so those people who didn’t believe my brother when he went on Hannity are gonna be sorry. Remember, even BDLR said it was a “godsend.”

    But God will never forget the needy;
    the hope of the afflicted will never perish.

    We’re the needy; we need another $300,000; O’Mara can show you exactly why. Send cash.

    Arise, LORD, do not let mortals triumph;
    let the nations be judged in your presence.

    We would like a judge who can just overlook stuff like forensic evidence; if we really pray a lot, that should be as good as any kind of evidence them folks might bring in, right?

    Strike them with terror, LORD;
    let the nations know they are only mortal.

    Lord, let me just get an assault rifle with a whole lotta bullets and I’ll go scare off them nasty Trayvonites right now. Oh, by the way, what’s their address? Do you have a GPS?

  5. Nefertari05 says:

    The Prof, in one of last week’s articles said:
    “As a general rule, judges will permit lawyers to withdraw, if another lawyer has agreed to take over the case and the substitution of counsel can be accomplished without continuing the trial date. As you might expect, the more complicated the case and/or closer the trial date, the less likely the court will grant a motion to withdraw.”

    Since a motion for *missing* GPS data could be dealt with separately, could the motion for continuance be a thinly veiled attempt to clear the way for a withdrawal, by pushing the trial date back far enough that a new atty could get up to speed? Could O’Mara be facilitating his withdrawal by, first, getting the continuance; then going for the withdrawal?

    • You may be right, but I do not give MOM much credit for strategic thinking.

      I don’t think his motion for a continuance has a ghost of a chance to succeed because he has not asserted a sufficient basis to support it. The real reason he wants it is to enlarge the time period within which to raise more money and if that doesn’t work, I think he’ll have no choice except to ask Judge Nelson to declare the defendant indigent and appoint him or new counsel, probably a public defender, to represent the defendant.

      If I were MOM, I would use this opportunity to get out.

  6. colin black says:

    You all have thoughtful comments says:

    February 2, 2013 at 11:15 am

    Would that record be on the actual phones, colin?


    Probably not directly stored on Trayvons phone no

    But It will be available some where probably.

    I say probably because.

    A lot of phones fitted with gps can use the app to find your way from A to B.

    But a lot of companys in IT information tech .
    Information on the masses is power.

    So many times you downloan an app for an ipod or phone or any app realy.
    You get loads of boxes of agreements to tick.
    Most people do so without ingesting what theyre agreeing to.
    So often times people with apps with gps capabilitys are being monitered ie that devices movement .
    24 / 7 just like when a car fitted with gps lowjack tech can be monitered its movements real time.
    Then millions of peoples movements can be monitered real time with out there knowlage.
    Infomation is power.

    And this type of data interests all sorts of people like goverments retailers to name a couple of obvious ones.
    So to sumarise i m o the gps movements of both foggen an Trayvons phones should be available ,
    Go as far to say Trayvon being a Teenager would definetly down loaded one or more music type download or share apps wich have that gps monitering permision piggybacked into there agreement somewhere.

    If foggen is pissed at this he can try an sue Bill Gates…

    • sdunn5 says:

      Are you for real colin? Real time for GPS locators…yahoo… there is only 1 t-mobile tower in the area and let me tell ya it ain’t your kind of real time stuff and they certainly will not be tracking you so no worries. Just want to know what a goverment (your word not mine) retailer is can you explain that to me…like I am a 17 year old?

  7. colin black says:

    itsallboutmeash says:

    February 2, 2013 at 10:56 am

    Is there anything anyone knows that would stop Bernie from getting the list of donors to the gzlegal fund to make sure no donor is picked to serve on the jury

    Dureing the Voir Dire Process wich could an should take a long long time.
    We saw what happened when Judge Perry made the proscess of Voie Dire selecting a jury of peers for Casey Anthonys Trial for firdt degree murder /death penalty to boot.

    He made no secret that it was going to be a swift short an sweet process.
    An he intended to keep not just jury selection but the entire trial prosess as swift an speedy as possable .Because of the inconveiance placed upon a seqeustered pool of jurours,

    And he was as good as his word so swift was the time used to pick suitable jurours an alternates .Even an old Lady whom openly said her belrifs made it imposssable for her to judge another human being.
    When a Defence attorney enquired about the apparent lack of ethnic diversity within the group.
    Judge sugested he would send a couple of deputys to local homeless shelters an round some up.


    So quick was the voir dire prosess i r c less than two weeks.
    She did indeed end up with a jury of her peers.
    Dumb as two short planks sat upon by 60 elephants.

    Re foggens jury pool…..

    There was apperently no life gaurds on watch dureing the morras of activity then led to the sinnerman gene pool….

    Considering M O M constant fawning an promotin of the magical innerweb as not only relevant .
    But an essential part of a client abillity to receive a fair trial in this age of techno babble chatter twitter ect.
    Went as far to say not implimenting the magical inerrweb thease days could be considered .
    As Ive said you couldnt make this up.

    But you can bet your bottom dollar Bernie will aske each an every one of them if the partake of social networking via pc facebook myspace they blog .ect
    If so what sites do they vist ..comment .
    And you can also bet that each an every answer they give will be vigoursly researched by the prosecution to find any lies.

    Needless to say any potential jurour whom admits to backing the defendant will be booted into touch ..
    As will any potentail jouror whom is found out to have lied abpout there networking blogging history.

    Also in the sake of fairness any Jurour whom profess any of the above but with a bias towards Trayvon they would also be barred from serveing on the jury.

    Above is just opinion as Im not a Lawer .
    Ive had experince in the legal feild but on the wrong side of the law.
    As the song goes american pie.

    Long long time ago……………………….

  8. leftysergeant says:

    Is the prosectution legally required to turn over evidence that they do not intend to use or which adds no new information? We know where Martin was when he bought the snacks and which way he took going home. What more does MOM need and why?

    Can we also see GZ’s GPS to be sure he didn’t run down Twin Tree to head Martin off? That might explain why his phone wound up where it did.

  9. fauxmccoy says:

    fred, if this does not embed properly, kindly repair for you addled friend here.

    [I fixed it so that it links to the youtube video, but it does not display the video here. The link will take you to youtube where you can see it. Joe South performing Games People Play. Good choice, I remember it well]

  10. SearchingMind says:

    Why I hate Whonoze: a tribute to Malisha.

    Whonoze is one of the main reasons why this case is in a mess at this moment. A couple of days ago Whonoze made a video which was wildly discussed not just on this high-society-blog but on other quite notorious blogs.

    Fogen saw that video and got the first real sign that the game is over before it started. If Whonoze knows as much as he demonstrated in his video, Angela Corey must have already figured it all out – Fogen is thinking, while he paces back and forth from one corner of his room to the other. As Whonoze beats the drums of war, Fogen heart sinks into his stomach. Fogen gets increasingly agitated, restless, “fearful”, “distrustful” and paranoid. And the war has not even started! The latest report has it that Fogen is suffering from “depression” and has almost doubled in size. Let us all pray and hope that Fogen does not hang himself (I do not think he has the courage to do such thing) before the trial.

    Jeralyn Merrit also saw that stupid video and went ballistic, steam gushing out of her both ears. Now she is asking people to post CASH in an envelope to “George” “to cheer him up” (and that might open the door to money laundry, etc.).

    O’Mara too saw that G-damned video and realized that filling any Motion for SYG-/self-defense hearing would literarily mean walking into an a den along the road ahead, full of hungry, angry lions. Now the defense is scared and does not want to move an INCH forward. The words “SYG-/self-defense hearing” have become anathema to O’Mara and Fogen; they want none of that anymore. Thanks to whonoze there will be neither SYG-/self-defense hearing nor trial.

    The “missing” GPS-data can only but cement the theory postulated by Whonoze. O’Mara is hyper-vigilant these days and knows that. Who knows if Whonoze can elaborate more on the relationship between his theory and what the “missing” GPS-data will show?

    • sdunn5 says:

      ANATHEMA really it’s become ANATHEMA to them you know what that words meaning is right. I think…ah you should do the work really. Oh and by the way Whonoze is not the reason for anything. He is not the the Prosecutor’s “Secret weapon” or “source”. There will be no SYG because of Z. He is not qualified for it or entitled to it…come on now…Z knows he committed Murder 1. And do not worry about his “Emotional State”. The prick does not have emotions none NADA zip! He is an empty soulless vessel of well…..delusion. Asshole doesn’t feel a thing…unless and you can correct if I am wrong….someone tries to wipe dried blood from his knuckle-head…then he is what he has always been…a PUSSY.

  11. willisnewton says:

    I wonder if BDLR is playing “gotcha” as well with the Crump/DeeDee recording which is poor quality compared to the ABC-made version. On the Crump tape when one listens closely to the conversation, DeeDee confirms that there was a car-to-pedestrian chase between Fogen and the teen. It’s not obvious at first what she’s saying but the meaning is clear. When I saw the news about MOM whining about not having the state somehow produce something they didn’t really have (ABC’s higher quality recording) I started laughing out loud. That tape is already a bombshell, and when he gets a hi-fi version of it MOM is going to look like the victim of that show “Punked.”

    • SearchingMind says:

      I think the “gotcha-situation” is co-incidental and not by design. I do not believe that Bernie and/or Crump set out to play ‘gotcha’ with O’Mara the counselor (I believe they respected him at the beginning and apportioned him his rightful place among equals). However, during the course of this discovery process O’Mara (instigated by the treeslummers/donors) has behaved in such an outrageous way that forced his colleagues (Bernie, Crump, etc.) to step back and watch him self-destruct. So, basically we have a ‘gotcha-situation’ that did not evolve by design but is rather an unintended byproduct of unethical conduct of O’Mara. For example, despite the evidence provided to him by the prosecution, O’Mara went out of his way to accuse prosecutors of political prosecution, malicious prosecution, hiding evidence, etc. O’Mara accuses Crump &Co. of serious crimes unbecoming of any Officer of the Court, etc. with the goal of humiliating them publicly and/or getting them disbarred – without any shred of evidence, (and there are many more examples). All these led to a seriously poisoned situation where all the professional actors are forced to step back, adopt a wait-and-see attitude and watch O’Mara learn the hard way. Unfolding events and events yet to unfold will drive reality into O’Mara’s head. Then, Bernie/Crump will whisper silently: ‘gotcha! you should have known better. If and when O’Mara obtains the ABC-tape, he would realize that there is nothing in there to support any of his allegations of criminal and/or unethical behavior on the part of Crump or perjury on the part of DeeDee. That will be a quiet ‘gotcha-moment’.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Bernie to O’Mara

        Laugh, laugh, I thought I’d die
        It seemed so funny to me

        Laugh, laugh you met a guy who taught you how it feels to be
        Lonely, oh so lonely
        Lonely, oh so lonely

      • Trained Observer says:

        “…an unintended byproduct of unethical conduct…”. Yes, indeed.

      • CherokeeNative says:

        ITA with this SM. I think Prof. nailed it on the head many months ago when he said that O’Mara was in over his head, and these recent events and soon to come events clearly demonstrate that. The fact that he brought West on board was an attempt to compensate, but in truth IMO, all he did was bring a rabid dog into the dog fight.

      • Xena says:

        At the first bond hearing, BDLR stated that O’Mara was trying to argue a SYG hearing. Now that he’s on to O’Mara’s attempt to try the case at motion hearings, BDLR uses the gotcha moments.

      • yes yes and yes!
        except i don’t think Omar made these baseless allegations against Ben Crump & co and BDLR with any honest suspicions or perceived evidence.
        i think he’s just lying to deflect and detract from the overwhelming evidence against his client.

        and i don’t believe he thinks clearer recordings or any other so-called missing discovery he’s bitching about! if he thought it would help he’d already have gone to get it like he was told to do a millions times!!

        what is his real motivation behind this behaviour??

        • manberk says:


          I agree. I have a tough time understanding why exactly they pander to racists & feed the conspiracies so I can only assume this is their defense. I dont believe anything is missing and theres no doubt MOM would lie. This seems similar to making a big deal about a color picture they had access to, the year old photo of TM they called “new”, tweets and youtubes that so far have not materialized, nefarious activity between the FBI/FDLE regarding the chain of command for the recording device, referring/accusing to Crump and Jackson when they can; etc etc etc. Each directly feeds those crazy conspiracies. The GPS is another. They are already suggesting, as a fact in some cases, it will show TM circled back to attack.

          I think they’ll fail miserably if all theyre trying to do is taint the jury pool.160 people, the number of their latest donor push, isnt going to cut it. GZ went all in on his infamy not realizing how small a group his fringe fans actually are. And with his families mental instability I dont think they’ve gotten it yet.

    • That would be delicious.

  12. colin black says:

    Sorry if this has been asked an answered already.

    To my limmmited knowlage.
    Is different re the pings info received from relay towers.
    If a phone or compass or tracking device is fitted with a gps olao vechicles .
    THEY Bounce info of 12 satalites in geo stationary orbit round the planet orbiting .With this data they can pinpiont a device with an accurecy of inches,
    Unlike cell phone mast data wich can only give aprox info within say a half mile sqaure radius.
    So i i r c foggen had a blackberry an those have gps an apparently Trayvons phone also had gps.

    So in theory we should be able to determine both there movements that evening with exact locales times ect whom went where .
    Whom stopped an whom ran an whom persuesd .
    Who instigated first contact an to summarise foggen is screwed.

    P S thanks again for both you an Cranes an the great posters at this site go team Trayvon.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Would that record be on the actual phones, colin?

      • looneydoone says:

        A 1965 Beau Brummel song ?
        A friend of mine was dating one of the band members (Declan Mulligan). Oh, the memories

    • Jun says:

      The other issue is the SIM card has the record with the company for the calls

      now Deedee mentioned that there were reception problems

      since triangulation has to do with signals, there may be issues with the GPS triangulation

  13. Is there anything anyone knows that would stop Bernie from getting the list of donors to the gzlegal fund to make sure no donor is picked to serve on the jury?

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Very good question, Itsallaboutmeash!

    • Rachael says:

      Of course that could be one of the voir dire questions – have you donated any money to the gzlegal fund – but that probably would not be allowed (I think it is supposedly anonymous) and even if it were, people could lie.

      • I believe that is a proper question that should be asked. It would have to be neutralized, however, to include financial contributions to Justice for Trayvon.

        The question should be asked on the juror questionnaire, which is confidential and kept in a sealed file. Three copies are made for the judge, prosecutor and defense counsel.

        Follow-up questions would be asked during individual voir dire when the public and all of the other prospective jurors are excluded from the courtroom. After jury selection, the copies are turned in and destroyed.

        This procedure protects the privacy of the prospective jurors while allowing the defendant to be present and participate through counsel during jury selection.

    • truthseeker66 says:

      That was discussed a few weeks ago. During jury selection BDLR can pose certain questions to acertain the likelyhood.

    • Xena says:


      Is there anything anyone knows that would stop Bernie from getting the list of donors to the gzlegal fund to make sure no donor is picked to serve on the jury?

      Remember BDLR saying that the federal investigation is ongoing? O’Mara has promised donors that their personal information is private so the way to go about getting that info would be via Paypal with a federal warrant. The U.S. Attorney can and probably already has a search warrant and tracking on the Paypal account. Any donors who reside in Florida are no doubt already noted.

  14. Malisha says:

    “All four of us were doing that at one point” — ewwwww!

  15. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Tzar… answer your earlier question, I don’t think there are any transcripts to gz’s jail calls except, maybe, those that pertained to gz and sz moving money around.

    And so, I just transcribed the part you requested.

    Starting at timestamp 4:04 of jailhouse call # 69:

    timestamp 4:04

    sz: How did you talk to her?
    gz: uh….um….My friend from work…..Mark
    sz: uh huh
    gz: He told me that she asked about me and she really wanted to hear from me.
    sz: Okay, I just called him? …..’cause I have been talking to him.
    gz: Yes….but I wouldn’t make a big spectacle of it….I would just call him and ask him for her contact information.
    sz: Okay.
    gz: And, remember, she is a hispanic female
    sz: Yes…yes…yes.uh huh
    gz: Okay…..and she has it…..she has 2.
    sz: Really? …..okay.
    gz: Her husband has 2, and he said that I could borrow one.
    sz: Oh…..that’s nice.
    gz: So….yeah…..I would try going that way.
    sz: Okay.
    gz: Okay?
    sz: Okay…I will do so.
    gz: Alrighty… you’re going to meet him now?
    sz: No, he’s just going to call me at some point for me …..we’re going to just eat lunch and wait for him.
    gz: Okay.
    sz: So.
    gz: My hunch thinks that you are able to get them.
    sz: I know.
    gz: Did you try calling Al’s?
    sz: Uh…yes.
    gz: Nothing?
    sz: No…no.
    gz: No…….did you try pawn shops?
    sz: Uh……………… ‘Cause I thought you didn’t want ….
    gz: Well, I mean, I’d rather something than nothing. I know that there is one pawn shop that has them.
    sz: Pawn shop.
    gz: Yeah.
    sz: Okay.
    gz: Yeah.
    sz: Do you know where that is?
    gz: pause (inhaling)…….It was by (“my chin”?)
    sz: Okay.
    gz: It’s Neil
    sz: Okay.
    gz:’s out
    sz: I remember you went in there before
    gz: Yes, and I think it’s’s 2 letters……I don’t remember…but yeah you could
    sz: (undecipherable)
    gz: (undecipherable)
    sz: um mm
    gz: But if we could get one there and one from my old manager
    sz: Okay.
    gz: It might be good. Did you like where to buy them?
    sz: ooo yeah.All four of us were doing that at one point.
    gz: Okay.
    sz: And we called…and .so many of the calls were disconnected and um yeah so
    gz: Did you try calling (undecipherable) and see if they could refer you?
    sz: No…..but that was going to be my next thing was to call those places.
    gz: Yeah… them and see if they can refer you somewhere.
    sz: Okay.

  16. pat deadder says:

    I think SZ’s phone should be looked into since I truly believe she was in the vehicle that night..I aso think she is an instigater.fogen mentions her in nen calls and she is heard on at least one of his ridiculous calls.God I hope Trayvon’s family can get through all that is to come.So far they are people who anyone should look up hoping against hope Trayvon got at least one picture of the crazies.

    • SearchingMind says:

      Your scenario is plausible but I do not think there is any evidence to support it. Hence, her (SZ) telephone may not be confiscated/subpoenaed and examined, etc. I am confident that Fogen will be going to the “gallows” soonest – with- or without SZ.

    • Malisha says:

      I doubt Trayvon got any pictures of anything; he was taken by surprise and he was trying to talk to DeeDee, not concentrating on the creepy guy.

  17. Wasn’t there more information missing besides just GPS data? What about other information from that day, such as pictures, video, or audio?

    • SearchingMind says:

      I think we are talking about “missing” information ONLY within the confines of defendant’s Motion to continue. I am not sure any information is missing as alleged by the defendant (O’Mara is not to be trusted). It is entirely possible that:

      a. The prosecution has already turned over the “missing” information but O’Mara can figure it out;

      b. The “missing” information is not missing. The prosecution has not yet turned the “missing” info over AND will do so at the time of its own choosing in accordance with the law and the Court’s Order of 29th Oct. 2012.

      It amazes me that O’Mara did not even bother requesting for the “missing” information before filing his motion. If he tried, maybe he would have gotten what he wanted (assuming the alleged info is missing as alleged). But O’Mara is as paranoid as his client. The fact that he STILL cannot explain the source of the prosecution’s extraordinary confidence in the strength of their case, keeps him ultra-vigilant, edgy and jumpy. Anything that seems a little out of place immediately triggers alarm in O’Mara’s head and must be a nefarious, sinister maneuver by the prosecution (and/or Crump) to make him O’Mara look bad and derail “George”. This dude is in fact a broken lawyer. And I think his paranoia, inferior knowledge and inferiority complex did that to him.

      • SearchingMind says:

        typo: A. The prosecution has already turned over the “missing” information but O’Mara canNOT figure it out;

      • Malisha says:

        Going to court for no good reason is always just a way to justify going to court. Remember, they didn’t use their available January court date; if they needed something why didn’t they ask for it then? I think what’s happening is that they’re in a state of chaos at the moment because Fogen absolutely refuses to go to trial and he can’t get out of it any whichway. O’Mara has to fill the Feb. 5 court date with something and he’s trying for a continuance. I think probably Feb. is too early to start saying Fogen is mentally unfit to cooperate in his own defense so they’re downproofing in a cesspool of their own making.

    • sdunn5 says:

      Arr you asking about the victim’s phone? Stop that it’s bad for your health..really! But here is something to think about because there is video and photo’s and maybe the defendant is worried about his GPS info….because he is a stupid fricken idiot. He also is a bad bad pathetically bad liar he thinks he speaks in “Code” Morse Code…….not so much!!!!

  18. Lynn says:

    MOM says he needs Facebook information (such as her address) for W8 so that subpoenas can be served…Why would he need her address since Facebook has no record of it? Nowhere do you give your address when you sign up. Name, email, and you have the option to add a mobile number but NOT required.

    The Court has told him no already on his request for an address. Nelson promised him the State will see to it she gets to her deposition. What other ways will he try to get her address???

    • Tzar says:

      like I said “creepy people”

    • sdunn5 says:

      Lynn hi it’s Sheila with the answer for you. They will search and create on the internet. It is not creative and it is stupid as crap but what more can you expect from the 2 lard ass ones and 4 interns whose collective IQ’s do not exceed George’s penis..oops…shoe size. Wait no I was right the first time!

      • racerrodig says:

        They all have an IQ that I refer to as “ higher than room temperature..” And that’s on a good day.

        • sdunn5 says:

          Come to Hawaii…sometimes it’s pretty hot oh or Vegas in the summer it was 120 degrees when I was there!

          • racerrodig says:

            That would be Ambient Temp. Room temp would be 66 to 72. That’s Borderline Deficient to Moron.

            We can use room temp in my shop first thing in the morning this weekend, with the heat way down low. That would be about 40 or so.

          • sdunn5 says:

            I am jealous I had never lived through a winter or seen real snow until I spent a year in Michigan early 2000’s wow loved it ouch ouch just don’t get your gloves or shoes wet that really really hurt!

          • racerrodig says:

            It’s snowing right outside my computer room window as we speak. Don’t know how much we’ll get so I’ll be up early to fire up the old snow blower.

  19. tony reay says:

    I’ll trade you some info…
    I’ll point out that, over here in the UK, a “black and tan” is a quite common drink comprising a mixture of light ale and a dark stout (usually Guinness)..
    and you can remind me (and probably many others) what “fogen” stands for…. (the letters, not the person – the person don’t stand for diddly)
    On the positive side I note that, after the initial release two days ago, of the new outpouring of funds from the faceless, feckless faithful totaling over $5000.. there have been no updates to the bookkeeping…..
    I suspect that if day two had been as “successful” as day one, we’da heard about it, right?

    and, I thank y’all for the facts and fancies that decorate these pages.. which just go to show that you DO need a Leatherman to know which way the wind blows.

    • KA says:

      I worked for an Dublin based company for several years and then a London company before that. Being at the headquarters many times having after work drinks, I thought the same thing when I saw the professors “Black and Tan” comment.

    • Tzar says:

      fogen=he who’s name shall be forgotten=let his name be forgotten=yemshemoh [sic]

      • tony reay says:

        Hmm – I still don’t get it….

      • Dennis says:

        I prefer Voldemort, he who must not be named.

      • Malisha says:

        Tony R, we had a thread a few months back that said that we were stamping the name “George Zimmerman” into history and into our own consciousness and maybe we should not be emphasizing him, but call it the “Killing of Trayvon Martin” case and call him something like the “Defendant” etc. I suggested a contraction of “Forget His Name” and I offered “Fogen” and it caught on. Tzar is correct in pointing out that this came from the Hebrew curse, applied to a person who has represented some great evil during his lifetime, and they say, “May his name be forgotten” and Tzar gives an accurate transliteration of the Hebrew phrase Yem-Shemoh [That Name be Forgotten].

        I have heard a poetic rendition of this same concept as:
        May his name not be inscribed in the book of life.
        The idea is that after someone dies, their name is inscribed in the book of life to remember what they were when they were among us. If someone has committed a great wrong against our society, we don’t want that inscription to happen. That’s all.

    • whonoze says:

      “Fogen” is a loose contraction of “FOrGEt his Name.”

      • tony reay says:

        I think that gives him too much power… I ain’t afraid of his name – or anything else about him.. I’ll stick with zimmie – all lower case.

    • sdunn5 says:

      Hello tony black and tan? I do not understand but I will tell ya “Fogen” isn’t my choice anymore (sorry was good for my spirits for awhile but I was grinding my teeth too much when I typed it) call him an asshole spell it without Asterisks it feels better that way or a piece of shit that feels good too. Now that was for the answer about the black and tan a little quid pro quo right?

  20. fauxmccoy says:

    professor fred – you are in fine form today from your opening commentary to your intervening comments, it seems you have fond memories of silly lawyer games played in the past 🙂

    my dearly departed father had dual degrees in law and accounting and decided at the last minute to become a CPA to avoid more school getting his JD. he had a sense of humor that reminds me very much of your own although no one really thinks of CPAs playing games (in actuality, doing taxes is very similar to very intricate puzzle solving). in absence of being able to call up the old man and hear some pearls of wisdom again, i will content myself with your blog.

    i would love to see a ‘gotcha’ moment at the upcoming hearing, courtesy of BDLR. let it be so 🙂

  21. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    I wonder in this jail house call what 2 items gz trying to have Shellie acquire.

    • Guns. He even mentioned a pawn shop.

      • ladystclaire says:

        He ought to have enough of GUNS the damn dip shit! wasn’t he found to be carrying that gun without a CCW permit, and now he has the audacity to be talking about acquiring more guns. how dumb can dumbo be?

      • Tzar says:

        anyone have a link to the transcript where he mentions pawn shops?

      • I just listened to the link above, Tzar. First he tries to get SZ to check with his Hispanic boss who has an extra one. The boss and her husband both have one. Then, he mentions that the local pawn shop has one.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        Why was Fogen so aware of what was in the local pawn shops anyway?

        • Xena says:

          @Cercando Luce

          Why was Fogen so aware of what was in the local pawn shops anyway?

          Notice that when he was taken to and photographed in the police station on 2/26/12, GZ was not wearing a wedding band, neither a watch? He has at least one ear pierced, but there’s no earring in it.

          Also, if there is any truth in GZ using NW as a cover-up for burglaries, he would be familiar on where to pawn stolen property.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Xena, I believe he was sending it out of state and, who ever is on the other end is selling the goods for him. I honestly believe that, that is what he was doing. I might be wrong about that but, I really don’t think I am.

        • Xena says:


          @Xena, I believe he was sending it out of state and, who ever is on the other end is selling the goods for him.

          You could be right. While he was hiding out at the Osterman’s he spent $135 at the post office.

    • Xena says:

      February 2, 2013 at 3:48 pm

      @Cercando Luce

      Why was Fogen so aware of what was in the local pawn shops anyway?

      Notice that when he was taken to and photographed in the police station on 2/26/12, GZ was not wearing a wedding band, neither a watch? He has at least one ear pierced, but there’s no earring in it.

      Also, if there is any truth in GZ using NW as a cover-up for burglaries, he would be familiar on where to pawn stolen property.

      OMG!! wow, that is so true!! good catch on the lack of jewelry and watch! omg!
      #1. how does he know all about every one’s guns!?
      #2. and he must have pawned stuff to get money Xena!! he was living way beyond his means!
      #3. between him and shellie how much did they owe every month?
      i wonder how much rent was?
      how much car payments? did they have 2 cars with payments?
      how much electric/cable/internet?

      he only worked what part time? wonder what his job really consisted of anyway? how much could he possibly make as an idiot? and i think we can safely assume he was getting financial aid to take his 9 years of failing courses.

      • Xena says:


        he only worked what part time? wonder what his job really consisted of anyway? how much could he possibly make as an idiot?

        GZ worked full-time. Upon learning that in July 2011 that GZ received $18,000 in a settlement with Aames, was working full-time, but was broke and behind on bills 7 mths later, I immediately thought about drug addiction.

        If by chance GZ was into drugs, he would go crazy spending that $18,000 to get high. That would make his addiction worst, so his paycheck would not be able to support his addiction and pay his bills.

        Pawning personal items and stealing goes along with that.

        The story and court docs about the $18,000 are here;

  22. Jun says:

    Omara’s secret hand is Trayvon’s miraculous twitter LOL

  23. kimmi says:

    How the Fogen family twists things just makes me sick!!!


    MOM & Georgie are doing what??? Playing the media for $$$??
    They sure point fingers everywhere else but at themselves!

    • Xena says:

      Breitbart was a far right-wing bigoted jerk who dropped dead after leaving a bar. That gives Junior 3 associations with bigoted racists, the treeslum, Breitbard, and Randy Hahn.

    • Jun says:

      It’s humorous because Junior is like

      “They’re all in it for the money, the media, the jews, the black racists, race baiters”


      “Donate money to me”


      Sure Fogenhats KKKlan, sure LOL

      I guess that is just about as hypocritical as “I wont try the case in the media”

      • racerrodig says:

        The entire Zidiot Nation does not have enough collective IQ to actually see what they say.

        On Hannity Fogen said he did not reflect on his actions but while locked up had time to reflect……W – T – F ??

        Just about everything they say from Fogen on down has the same crap.

    • elcymoo says:

      Also, from the same source:

      [video at link]

      “I said before, there were a lot of stones to be thrown in the bucket, and a lot of hands went in the bucket to throw the stones. There was a lot of opportunity for people’s self-aggrandizing, to drive their own agendas, and anybody who was looking for an easy target found one in a person who could not defend himself because he was labeled a racist. Again, once you’re labeled a racist, once you become the most hated man in America as he was described, the natural enemy of a lot of people who happened to be black who were misled by celebrities into believing that my brother was a racist … [Jesse Jackson saying Zimmerman had shot Martin] in the back of the head, Al Sharpton repeating even in front of a government body in Sanford, the Sanford Town Hall meeting that took place in reaction to this that he was told not to get out of the truck and he still got out of the truck, it’s beyond fictitious. It’s deliberate. And a lot of people had their hands in that bucket to throw stones. NBC, for their ratings. People who want to attack ALEC for their own motivations. But the motivation of one person is really what matters here – why did George use his firearm to defend himself?”

    • Malisha says:

      yeah. I can just see the meeting in the editor’s room on 2/27/2012. But remember, as you read this: It happened in the editor’s room of every single media outlet, of every single kind (TV, print, Internet) approximately the same way, before the story went public:

      Minor reporter: I got this story that someone killed someone for no reason in Florida.

      Editor: Huh? OK, write a story someone killed someone. Do they know who did it?

      Minor Reporter: The guy admitted he did it.

      Editor: OK, tell who did it then unless he’s under-age.

      MR: But wait a minute, maybe we can make money on this, and sell more papers!

      E: How? Killing somebody is no big deal. Did he kill the president?

      MR: No but he killed a Black kid. You know how people love to read that somebody wrongfully killed a Black kid, and we can sell lots of papers if we play to all that undeserved sympathy. The kid was probably doing something really bad but we can hide that.

      E: OK, you’re probably right there. Who’s the guy who killed him?

      MR: He had to do it, it was self-defense, but we don’t need to mention that.

      E: OK, this is looking good. If we can fool people into thinking he just hauled off and killed a kid for no good reason, we can really sell a LOT OF PAPERS and maybe you can start getting a salary again.

      MR: Really? If this works, will you give me a salary again?

      E: I sure will! I have always wanted to do that. And now a guy has to kill someone to get it done!

      MR: OK, I’ll write the story exactly like this: A guy who was not squeaky clean and in fact can be presumed to be a nasty racist went out and killed a Black kid for no reason and the terrible bad police didn’t even want to hold him responsible!

      E: You’re a genius! You DESERVE a salary! I say we PRINT!


      • MR: Really? If this works, will you give me a salary again?

        E: I sure will! I have always wanted to do that. And now a guy has to kill someone to get it done!

        LMAO!!!LOLOLO seriously hysterical!!!

  24. this is what i’m worried about. someone posted a comment written by some Jaraline lawyer lady. in it she suggests to her readers to go ahead cheer up poor george and send him $5 in the mail. i had not even thought about gz getting cash.

    Cash money!!! that is what i’m NOT trying to hear!!!
    there’s no way for the state or irs or the courts to monitor cash coming in the mail!!!
    this is a disaster now!! yeah he could account for the 300K but what about cash?? he could get tons of cash and even manage to save some up to use it to escape. he can continue to live large while out on bail and no one will know anything! this really sucks!

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I suspect there may have been some cash transactions going on all along . . .

    • kimmi says:

      Jeralyn Merritt from the talk left site. She is a defense lawyer.
      So pro-GZ, its unbelievable. I guess she censors some of the posters on her site as well, leaving the pro-GZ, others disappear!

      • Two sides to a story says:

        To be fair, she does sometimes delete comments and even ban Fogen supporters, but she’s especially prone to find fault with Trayvon supporters. The facts, ya know! She’s still stuck on the fact that Fogen has some minor injuries and that he claims self-defense . . . *end snark*

      • i’ve never heard of her except here, i can’t handle anyone else *pro asshole*! i can barely stand his brother and family w/o puking up a little in my mouth.

      • Xena says:

        I pulled some downloaded docs from talk left, but did not know it was Jeralyn’s site — did not read anything posted there.

      • Jun says:

        She’s beyond delusional but she would prolly do a better job than Omara LOL

      • Jun says:

        I am not saying Fogenhats never got wuss injuries

        but he was attacked by a tree branch

        so it would only be self defense if he shot the tree

      • seallison says:

        I believe the purpose of Daddy and Mommy Zzzz begging for cash on their own website (same format as the Thugs) was to funnel money to their son. There is no accounting for the money heading their way since they are not involved with GZs. This is one way for supporters to help him out without tracking by MOM.

    • abbyj says:

      Shannon, The cash is a problem and has been. Sure, many thousands upon thousands of dollars were transferred via PP, but I’ve pondered how many donors sent cash or checks directly to him. It may have been a significant amount.

      GZ’s always been inclined to squirrel away his loot as secretively as possible, so it would not surprise me if he had a stash ready to go. That may have been a compelling reason for him to press hard for removal of the GPS. Without the GPS, he would have had opportunity as well as means. We already know his motive. Cash could be the silent trickster in this equation, IMO.

      • sdunn5 says:

        Sorry abbyj Z has never had any loot. And it was many many thousands like 100 thousand and some more. Peter Pan is not a vessel of which you can transfer this kind of “loot”. 1st 10 thousand you must declare yourself as a “real” non-profit or should I say what they will verify as a” real” non profit. It is not about the IRS no he should be very “spooked” because it’s about the LAW!! But hey that GPS thingie…well good luck with that!

  25. KA says:

    I think the constant pointless notions following stupid CT theories is a fundraising activity giving him endorsements from pro GZ groups that have written they doubt MOM’s capabilities. Now that he is placating their stupid notions and conspiracy theoris, he might win their “support” back.

  26. Trained Observer says:

    After wading through multiple pages of defense whining, it’s amusing to see BDLR dispatch MOM’s complaints in a model-of-restraint five-pager. Page Four, #19 is both amusing and damning in the truth department: “Defendant apparently wants the State to provide him with a roadmap of what the evidence shows and to connect the dots before depositions of certain witnesses are taken. … “

    • KA says:

      I read that…hysterical!

    • Fogen wants a roadmap of what the evidence shows so that he can once again try to alter his story and make it work with what the evidence shows….he’ll claim that his other stories were a bit off due to the ptsd he’s suffering from because of the alleged “bashing & slamming & bashing & pounding…” to his noggen.

  27. Tzar says:

    I enjoyed that article way too much
    I hope you are right

  28. ChrisNY~Laurie says:

    I am so glad that I have Tuesday off and get to watch this hearing live. What time does it start?

  29. Xena says:

    I can see Judge Nelson granting a 30 or 60 day extension to the trial date, but not until November for the reasons that the defendant gives. His financial problems are not the court’s concern.

    • SpecialladyT says:

      Xena, after reading BDLR’s response, why should Nelson grant a continuance at all? I can’t even believe that OMara would even put in his motion that the defense is out of money? I have never in my life seen a criminal defense attorney beg for bucks! IMO,

      OMara is a joke and an embarrassment to his fellow colleagues.

      • Xena says:


        Xena, after reading BDLR’s response, why should Nelson grant a continuance at all?

        At times, judges prefer to grant a continuance, even if not as long as requested, just to make sure that the party’s rights to a fair trial are not infringed upon. That would be any problems involving discovery, but that money BS O’Mara is trying to sell to the court is not actually the court’s problem.

        I have never in my life seen a criminal defense attorney beg for bucks! IMO,

        O’Mara has no money to pay for expert witnesses and continue conducting depositions. I hold O’Mara responsible for that because when he took over the fund, he said that he was appropriating $27,000 for GZ’s living expenses. He should have held GZ to that rather than allow him to rent two rooms in an extended stay hotel.

        His alternative now is to have the court declare GZ indigent and allow the State to pay the costs — but GZ won’t have any money for living expenses if that happens, because I highly doubt that the court will allow him to receive money while he is out on bail that the court has no control over.

        In other words, it is unlikely that the court will declare GZ indigent and then allow thousands of dollars to come in to GZ for him to live the high life.

      • ladystclaire says:

        As far as him having some place to live because he is short on money, why don’t some of his loyal A’hole supporters put out the welcome mat at their home for him and his SHElLIE. how many people do you all know of live off of 27,000 like this clown is allowed to do by his “ADDLED” brain attorney? some people don’t see that kind of money for living expenses in a year and, they are busting their asses working everyday. as I have said before, the defense has turned this case into a circus and, it’s wrong.

      • KA says:

        I don’t think GZ has ever made 27K a year in his work history…and Shellie didn’t work…so…

      • roderick2012 says:

        SpecialladyT says:Xena, after reading BDLR’s response, why should Nelson grant a continuance at all?

        If Nelson does grant a continuance O’Mara will wait until that trail date to declare George indigent and we will have another delay to decide if George gets to keep O’Mara as his attorney or if he is represented by a public defender.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @KA, how could he make that kind of money in any given year because, he is allergic to working so therefore he hasn’t even made an amount less than that. Besides Fogen is to busy calling LE on young black males as well as following tenants in his neighborhood home and asking them, what are you doing around here. he has been a nosy POS in every neighborhood he has ever lived in. IMO he should have been arrested for making so many unnecessary calls to LE being a tattle tale. I’m surprised somebody hasn’t broken his nose for real, in light of him being who he is.

      • Malisha says:

        Uh oh, we’re all in trouble.

        There’s a rumor that Trayvon sent a tweep on 2/25/2012:

        “Tomorrow I’m gonna be a ‘made man’ by killing an innocent creepy looking white guy. Maybe Hispanic, even. I’ll meet with some other thugs and get some drugs first, then I’ll attract some guy in a car, and make him drive around. Then I’ll run and make him get out the car to find an address and then I’ll put my cell phone down on the grass so the pings think I’m still there, maybe by some bushes, and then I’ll skip home and drop off my drugs and then skip back to where my cell phone is, pick it back up, and emerge from the darkness and scare the guy. I’ll call him ‘homie’ or something. And he’ll try to reach for HIS cell phone to call 911 and I’ll punch him in the nose (undeniably) and then beat the living shit outta him and smash his head on the ground and smother him until he’s dead and then I’ll skip away. Wish me luck.”

        THAT’s why his cell phone records were disappeared by the prosecution; they didn’t want the defense to figure out that Trayvon hid his cell phone in the bushes while he ran home to stash his drugs!

    • racerrodig says:

      If Fogen starts digging now, by November his escape tunnel could be……..wait, he packed on 100 pounds, what am I saying…exercise….Fogen….sorry, my bad.

      • Xena says:

        @racerrodig. If ShelLIE has also gained 100 lbs, I hope they have steady bed frames and sturdy toilet seats.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Racer and Xena, I believe he will try to flee before it’s all said and done. I also believe this is why his criminal minded lying father had need to be escorted to the airport. he was more than likely going to some place out of the country, looking for some where safe to put his POS of a son and his wife up

        ShelLie even alluded to an escape by the two of them, in one of her recorded jail house calls. this is for TwinkiToes @ HP, if the bloated goat flees the country, the state should jail his attorney’s until he is back in custody. this is the real reason they filed that motion to have his GPS removed.

        • Xena says:


          I believe he will try to flee before it’s all said and done.

          For sure. He planned to flee when he was first let out on bail, but the GPS ankle bracelet hindered that. I agree, he had O’Mara file the motion to have the GPS removed so he could flee.

        • racerrodig says:

          I do know that to some extent an attorney is responsible for his client, at least in NJ.

      • Jun says:

        he’s gonna ask for donations and pay an excavator to dig his tunnel

        what Fogenhats is selling is better than gold, it is a autographed Thank You card with air time on skype as his internet is paid for 10 years

      • Rachael says:

        Digging is good exercise.

      • Malisha says:

        Xena, I don’t. 😈

    • Rachael says:

      I agree with you Xena, and I believe she probably will. I wish she wouldn’t, but I believe she will.

      • Xena says:

        @Rachael. I know. I know. Let’s just hope that she grants no more than 60 days.

        • jm says:

          Rachael says: “….. I wish she wouldn’t, but I believe she will.”

          Xena says: ” I know. Let’s just hope that she grants no more than 60 days.”

          Doesn’t the judge have to follow certain rules regarding continuance?

          Watching HLN commentators, overall they felt this latest move was a GZ/MOM “ploy” to get more money/contributions and/or sway public opinion.

          • Xena says:


            Doesn’t the judge have to follow certain rules regarding continuance?

            It’s pretty much to their discretion.

            Watching HLN commentators, overall they felt this latest move was a GZ/MOM “ploy” to get more money/contributions and/or sway public opinion.

            Yep. O’Mara has lost the respect of many by being a circus barker begging for money.

    • sdunn5 says:

      Xena I see her head exploding!!

  30. SpecialladyT says:

    Great blog, Professor!

    Crossing my fingers that this coming Tuesday will be a wonderful birthday for Trayvon and his loved one’s.

  31. Lito says:

    Professor I would love to see the look on fogen and the defenses faces

  32. KA says:

    Does anyone have any opinion or information of why on the world the defense is requesting credit card transactions for 7-11 on 1/30/2012 for that day when, in the security video, it clearly shows Trayvon using cash to pay for his purchase?

    I cannot think of a single reason to ask the court for that.

    Prof, I think all indications are that they are going to drag character into this.

    I see no indication that they will do a immunity hearing either.

    • KA says:

      sorry I meant 1/30.2013

      • Hello!?They’ve been attacking Trayvon’s character every single day since the beginning. it’s unprecedented!

        have you seen the way omar talks about him in the courtroom? in the motions? in media?
        the last time, on TV, in court omar said he went an got “himself shot” as if he did all this to himself and now him and his family have caused gz and his family a huge inconvenience by even prosecuting gz!!

      • Jun says:

        Its okay, because Fogenhats got hisself prosecuted and Omara got himself high blood pressure

    • Jun says:

      I dont believe he is entitled to that information anyways, but i could be wrong… I dont feel there is sufficient grounds for subpoena

    • No, I don’t believe the defense will request an immunity hearing.

      1/30 or 2/26?

      I think they are trying to figure out who the black kids were who bought black and tans because they think they had contact with Trayvon and might have some dirt on him that they would be willing to share. They think he wanted a black and tan to replace the tobacco with pot and smoke it.

      Pretty ridiculous fishing expedition since he had a barely detectable trace amount of pot in his blood, people don’t use black and tans for that purpose because the tobacco is packed too tight, and even if he had smoked some pot in the past he was not under the influence of or affected by it a the time he was murdered.

      Besides herb doesn’t turn mild mannered teens into gangsta ninjas.

      Damn crazy and stupid theory.

      • Xena says:

        Professor, those were White kids. They were also dressed to look “suspicious.” LOL!

      • kimmi says:

        Thank you for the reply, yes that helps.

      • kimmi says:

        Besides herb doesn’t turn mild mannered teens into gangsta ninjas.

        LOL! That is too funny!

        • racerrodig says:

          Consider this everyone….It’s a fact that weed gives you the munchies and the mellows.

          Can anyone tell me Trayvon’s nickname…it was “Slim.”

          Can anyone tell me how many pounds Fogen has packed on lately.
          Maybe it’s all that medication, maybe it’s all those pizza’s, then again……..

          Can anyone tell me what Fogen said his nickname was after the murder of Slim.

          Well it was “DatniggyTB” And then he insulted everyone in the solar system by saying “TB” stood for “Tug Boat” since he was a bit chunky in the past. I’ve had a few nick names in my past relating to playing football “Wrecker XXXXX” playing guitar “Rhythm XXXXX”
          racing “racerrodig” but “Tug Boat”

          One of my friends named Tom is a bit overweight. Maybe “Titanic Tom” would be cool, since Fogen things watercraft make good nicknames.

          “Runabout Ron” “Sammy Speedboat” Gee….what can we call RZ jr. since he’s the one who elaborated on that.

      • Mike says:

        LoL black & tan

      • KA says:

        Will they get the request? It does not seem enough support and actually very little to do with the killing anyway.

        I swear, they are going to introduce character at trial….

      • KA says:

        The court petition date was 1/30/2013..that is what I was referring to. Sorry I reread, it was not clear.

      • looneydoone says:

        Fogen’s the ThugBoat and jr’s just a little dinghy who’s cruising along in the wake. I think jr’s dinghy should be christened “the mouth who roared”

      • sdunn5 says:

        Professor I love that you called it “herb” Actually black and mild is something people like to smoke not for “herb” purposes and believe me blunt wrappers come in many flavors. I don’t believe 7-11 sells blunt wrappers as 7-11 is not a “Head Shop”! The Z’s are idiots who search, slime spam, tinker with thingies on the internet. Knuckle bandages from Nurse “Ratchet” Shellie cause they looked liked butterflies right? They need so STFU! He and her and the other 4 interns will be going down…down..down…after the State’s case. I was born and raised in Hawaii..still live here….and I am color blind in all matters of ethnicity. I would not be able to tell the difference between a Samoan..Tongan or Black person. We have all colors here. It is not a race issue because we all are the Human Race. They just do not get it..which is nice.

    • kimmi says:

      Apparently, the three males in the store shortly before Trayvon was there used a credit/debit card for their purchase. It is believed that they want to find those three and if they bought Trayvon a ‘black and mild’ cigar. It is believed by some to be used for making a ‘blunt’ which, imo, is just a time wasting, fishing expedition, just trying any means to dig up dirt on Trayvon.

      MOM really needs to start spending his time doing what needs to be done on this case, instead of following these irrelevant ‘leads.’

      • Jun says:

        That is silly

        Black and milds can be used for Blunts but they on like 99% of occasion are not used because it is not good for rolling

        Phillies is what is used, or Swisher Sweets, or people just buy blunt rolling papers known as blunt wraps

        either way, I dont know what they are trying to prove because even if Trayvon bought a Cigar, it does not mean he deserved to be killed

        It is kid’s stuff… I think all kids have at one point gotten an adult to buy cigars and stuff just to try them

      • Rachael says:

        They didn’t find one on him (or in him, per toxicology report) so what are they wasting time on that for?

        • Xena says:


          They didn’t find one on him (or in him, per toxicology report) so what are they wasting time on that for?

          Well see, it’s like this — all part of the bigotvoyant theory that Trayvon went home, changed pants, but up his drugs, and then knew that GZ was still out there and exactly where he was so he could open a can of whip-ass on him. Stuff like that.

      • seallison says:

        Trayvon did have a lighter in his pocket. Could be the guys asked him for a light too. In any case, MOM is breaking most of the Professors 13 Commandments!

    • Mike says:

      The credit card thing isn’t for what Martin did, I believe it’s for the three young men that came into the 7-11 after him.

      • kimmi says:

        Right, but I think that came from some idea the treepers had, (a video), that if they track down the three men, then perhaps they can find that Trayvon met up with them, or talked to them, or had them buy him some black and milds, or might have some incriminating news about him…yada, yada, yada

      • aussie says:

        There was also an idea that the $40 on Trayvon may have been the proceeds of selling some weed, possibly to those boys…. how else would a n*** have money on him?
        (At the same time, Tracy having given him $100 for pizza and movie tickets was bad parentlng by spoiling him at a time when he should have been grounded).
        (Oh and then Tracy was flush as he sells weed for a living as evidenced by some photo of him holding money, which only dealers do).
        (Oh actually the $40 was the change left from the $100 after he BOUGHT some weed…. some discussion on the going price).

        Can’t recall the other related theories, been while since I’ve been near the nuthouse.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      The Treestump community makes a big fuss about the three young men (they call them the three stooges) who go into the 7-11 after Trayvon. Trayvon seems to speak to them outside before he leaves. One of the young men pays for his purchases with a debit or credit card. (This is the abridged version!) Of course, there is drug dealing and whatnot on the Treestumpers mind.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Sorry – I didn’t see all this in the thread above when I commented! Time for sleep!

      • Xena says:

        Oh yes. The treeslummer conspiracy theories. Here is what is wrong with the 3 stooges theory — they didn’t kill Trayvon Martin, neither can testify on GZ’s behalf that he killed Trayvon in self-defense.

        The treeslummers forget that GZ’s defense is self-defense. The more O’Mara digs into the treeslummers’ conspiracy holes, the more he comes off as a bigoted racist trying to justify a killing because the victim was not worthy to live.

      • Jun says:

        Maybe they can give descriptions of who they saw potentially stalking Trayvon from 7-11

        perhaps Ostertrench is a culprit

      • sdunn5 says:

        You mean that “South Park Dude”? That was cweepy and to think the handkerchief headed one was a white guy that if his hair had been blonde…he would have been fabio-tastic!!

    • towerflower says:

      They are looking for the 3 guys who came in right after TM, one of them used a card for their purchases. Some over at the house suggest it will prove that one of them bought a blunt for TM who was waiting outside with the $2 in his hands. Even if they did buy a cigar for TM, he didn’t have it on him when he was shot. There other assumptions is that the cigar is emptied and then filled with pot and if TM had done that then the levels of THC would not have been in the trace amounts. It’s another fishing expedition.

    • sdunn5 says:

      To counter those EBT transactions I believe!!

  33. tonydphotog says:

    I’m at the NAACP image awards, and I just saw Trayvon’s parents. Hopefully, I get to see them again so can say “hi” to them.

  34. kimmi says:

    So if they are checking Trayvons phone for GPS tracking info, do we know if the State has or will check Fogen’s phone as well? It would be interesting to see how much his ‘stories’ line up with his GPS info.

    • I think the fogen said, “We don’t need you to do that.”

      • “Umm, we don’t need you to do that.” 🙄

        yes, i did just learn the smily thingy today 😆

      • kimmi says:

        Can the State introduce Fogen’s cellphone pings into evidence even if Fogen doesn’t bring up Trayvon’s GPS information?
        I’m thinking why the need for Trayvon’s GPS information if they can basically get the same (GPS) info from Fogen’s phone?

        Of course, any video’s, pictures from Trayvon would be a wonderful bonus, which I’m sure is one reason they are investigating Trayvon’s phone, but why not just get the GPS info from Fogen’s phone?

        Sorry, I am asking because I really don’t totally understand how the ‘open the door’ to the evidence works yet. Please help, thanks!

        • The open-door rule refers to a lawyer doing something he should not do and, as a result, he opens the door to allow the other side to do something that it could not otherwise have done.

          For example, if the defense were to introduce good character evidence about the defendant through a family member, that would open the door for the prosecution to introduce bad character evidence against the defendant.

          The State can introduce GPS evidence about either or both cell phones, if it has the evidence. Such evidence would be relevant (i.e., probative of an issue in the case) and admissible. The open door rule does not apply because the evidence is admissible.

          The rule only applies when the door is closed (i.e., particular evidence is not admissible pursuant to some rule of evidence) and the lawyer opens it by doing something he should not have done.

          Does that help?

    • aussie says:

      If they have data to within 10 feet for BOTH phones, this is how the case goes:

      Get a map. Get 10ft circles, red for GZ and green for Trayvon. Move them around the map at 1 or 5 second intervals to match the GPS data.

      Let everyone see for themselves where they both were. Who followed who?

      In silence.

  35. groans says:

    January 31, 2013 at 1:24 pm

    (Forgive me if someone’s already mentioned this in one of the preceding 600–or-so comments! …)

    I was just looking at Judge Nelson’s “Amended Scheduling Order” entered on 10/29/2012. The order specifically addresses continuances, as well as setting deadlines:

    “THIS CAUSE came before this Court upon its own motion, after discussion with counsel in open court on October 26, 2012. Upon the agreement of the parties, the following deadlines shall apply.

    It is hereby ORDERED:
    1. Trial is presently set to begin on June 10, 2013.
    a. Any Self-Defense Immunity / Stand Your Ground motion shall be filed and heard on or before April 26, 2013, which is 45 days before trial.
    b. Final witness lists, including any expected expert witnesses, shall be exchanged on or before March 27, 2013, which is 75 days before trial
    e. No continuances of the trial will be granted on the basis that the parties have not complied with these deadlines.”


    Hmmmm…. I didn’t notice that O’Mara mentioned the Scheduling Order at all in his Motion to Continue, let alone paragraph 1(e) of that order. Seems like something he probably ought to have at least acknowledged, if not specifically addressed, when asking Judge Nelson for a continuance now.

    well, is this what they go by?? these are the dates they all agreed on!

    • boyd says:

      This means MOM is Full of crap. Judge Nelson worries me.

      If anyone recalls the Sanford inicdent back in 2010-2011. A homeless guy was punched into a COMA all caught on tape and sent to ABC news. Nelson was the Judge. Natalie Jackson was involved (Not sure about her either) The defendant ended up with a misdeamnor and served no time. The homeless guy received an undisclosed sum. .

      • yes, you weren’t aware that GZ *himself*, though HIS EFFORTS brought that case to light?? LMFAO!!!!!
        that he -GZ, was the ONLY ONE on the planet who fought for Sherman Ware? and he went to the NAACP for help on behalf of Mr, Ware? HE passed out fliers at black churches??

        No never mind that Mr. Ware was represented by Natalie Jackson. It was ALL gz’s doings!!LOLOLO

        No, you didn’t know all this? oh well you MUST read papaZ’s family manifesto on his Begsite, he’ll tell you all about the martyr gz is.
        Especially for the black community.

        Oh and don’t forget the BADASS neighborhood gz, risking his Life, had to drive through to mentor the 2 black children! he did so much for them, omg, i mean think of all the knowledge gz could share with them.. so wise is he.
        and obviously due to countless hours, years even, he spent selflessly mentoring those poor, pitiful kids, surly, they must be bursting with pride and admiration for gz, and so they also should be all over the media declaring their love and devotion to him!! LOLOL
        anyway these are the stories he told his parents for some reason and they think it’s true or don’t even care, but they posted all this trash on their begsite!

        • racerrodig says:

          “HE passed out fliers at black churches??”

          Allegedly !!!!!!! Last year it was proved he did not pass out any fliers as not one person at any Church in that area could recall any fliers.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        @racer & shannon – i am quite sure that shannon is being facetious here, i have many times posted an article from the grio which dismantles the Z story of how important fogen was to the situation. they are simply legends in their own minds 😛

    • KA says:

      Maybe she will deny the continuance. Also, witnesses start losing their memories about the events and stuff. I think it what BDLR has responded is true, I don’t think she will approve it.

    • gz is a damn liar!! he didn’t do anything in his life that didn’t benefit him DIRECTLY!
      *if* he did do anything about the Ware case, it was to insert himself even more into official police business. It was a police official’s son who had assaulted the guy.

      i think there was some talk earlier, i think Xena, that him and osterman wanted to get the police chief out of office or something… whatever it was he certainly never did anything for anyone unless he was rewarded somehow!

      • Xena says:

        Yes, GZ’s motivation was to unseat the Chief of Police. He was an opportunist when it came to Ware and could have cared less about him.

      • Malisha says:

        Shannon, there was internecine strife in SPD at the time of the Ware incident. Fogen lined up with the pro-Billy-Lee forces to depose the prior Police Chief and even to deny him his pension. It had nothing to do with Ware; that was the incident that got the public interested in what kind of mess the SPD was in at the moment. It was what we call a “precipitating event.” But it was also just a catalyst, not anything per se related to Fogen.

    • sdunn5 says:

      Did you also notice his motion….State’s Response to (cough)..motion…and FDLE’s (cough cough) response were not there? Oh and the only available source for all that rudimentary legalese heaping steaming pile of documents is from GZ-illegalcase? One more fun highlight of the FDLE’s response starts with the ever so popular Middle English language ….Comes now……!!! I mean come on Z’s just STOP IT ALREADY…me thinks jorge will be in da clink very soon. They apparently did not read the conditions of bail…he was forbidden from contacting the Martin/Fulton family or anyone associated with this family…which included anyone else on his behalf. Seems simple enough to a reasonable person.He is also not to or any one on his behalf to try to intimidate a witness. I know what dat means. And a final honorable mention shout out goes to his NBC lawsuit. Omar better be hiding and have his own flight plan..because filing that suit shows his legal ignorance to a T (I said that…yes I did”…! NBC… well it’s not their 1st rodeo ya know he would have to be deposed yes Z would be deposed to death. Maybe it’s a sneaky plan of attack…..sshhhh!!!!

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Greetings: Know Ye All Men By These Presents. LOL! But hey, that’s the way legal documents are drawn, tending to use language not in use any longer, as a way to avoid the ever morphing meaning of words. In these times especially, where words change in meaning and spelling at lightening speed, I’d say it’s best that the courts stick to using dead languages.

  36. Jun says:

    Another potential possibility is Omara is just lying again

    I would not put it past him

  37. kimmi says:

    Hopefully, RZ Jr’s twitter rant last night comes back to bite him and his family in the butt! Sweet JUSTICE that would be…

    RZ Jr 1/31/13:
    Last1-4-2nite: I have no doubt in this “The Lord is known by his justice; the wicked are ensnared by the work of their hands.” -Pslams 9:16

    Oh Lord I pray,
    The whole ZZZ clan will soon EAT a HUGE helping of those words!!
    BTW, he can’t even spell Psalms…maybe just a typo though.

    • boyd says:

      they are what the cousin said they are.

    • Maybe it’s the collective unconscious at work telling him his brother is going to be pslammed.

      The “p” is silent.

      • jm says:

        RZ Jr says: “The Lord is known by his justice; the wicked are ensnared by the work of their hands.”

        It sounds to me as if RZ Jr has clearly lost his mind, perhaps dazed by his need for the spotlight, spouting crazy talk like this, considering that his brother has become ensnared by the work of his hands on the evening of 02/26/2012..

        Keep preaching RZ Jr. LOL

      • kimmi says:

        I certainly hope so, because watching MOM and that family smear a dead kid is making me ill…after that comment they have not only mocked Trayvon and his family, but they are now mocking God.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Yeah, JM, sounds like some heavy projecting to me. Chickens coming home to roost!

      • Rachael says:

        @kimmi – he mocks MLK Jr. too. It is disgusting.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Professor, that has to be one of the best puns!

      • OMG….I..’.t…..breeeeeeeeee…th……gasp……ooooooh..
        ……… 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 ………. too funny Professor….!

      • Malisha says:

        Lots of people go into the Bible and pull stuff out that excites them at a certain point in time, all the while imagining it has something to do with their situation at the moment. Junior obviously tweets stuff that blows his skirt up, without too much concern about whether it is “applicable” to what he is trying to say, in a logical way. Evil-doers would be who? They would be people who want to prosecute his brother and who ARE prosecuting his brother? He thinks that’s from the Bible? He and a lot like him are in the habit of narcissistically thrusting themselves into the Bible at one point or another as the “righteous” and therefore, by assumption, the various Biblical points about the “evil-doers” can be co-opted to describe their enemies. I have no respect for Junior or his alleged intellect. I don’t know whether HE was an altar boy or not, but it’s my guess that he was not educated by the Jesuits.

      • Malisha says:

        I hired a lawyer in Virginia back in 2008, to do a certain job for me, very clearly defined, to make a motion in a certain court, and I even did his research for him, I just couldn’t go into that court pro se so I hired him. I paid and paid and paid and he did nothing and nothing and nothing. But for some unknown reason he began to chit chat with me (while he was on the clock, of course) about Jesus (I’m a Jew and I don’t know what all that was about) and particularly about what Jesus SAID while he was being crucified. (Since it turned out that he had cut a deal with my adversary to NOT file the motion, perhaps this was his message that he was gonna crucify me, but who knows what goes on in the alcoholic mind.) He kept reciting Psalm 22 in really crummy Aramaic (that is, he had the words right but the accent all wrong) and explaining the text of the Psalm to me. In the end, I asked him to send me a copy of my file and he refused, claiming not to have the file. And then he wrote me a self-serving letter claiming that I had not wanted to go to court and he had spent much more time on my case than I had paid him for; the kind of letter a lawyer needs to defend himself with the Bar Counsel if a complaint is lodged against him. But I narrate this because Junior carrying on about his holy sacred aligned-with-God position against all the bad guys is reminiscent to me of Gil Davis’s silly assumption of holiness when he wasn’t doing his job and he was cheating a client.

        I can spend a few minutes on-line and come up with any number of twitter-sized kernels from the Bible that can seem to mean that I am right and my adversaries are wrong. The Bible was a chronicle of a tribe of people who were living in a place where intertribal warfare was the norm (that area is still a place where intertribal warfare is the norm, obviously) and being right meant being on “our side” which was obviously defended vigorously by “our God” who always took our part.

        My guess is that Junior and Fogen are going to be quite disappointed by the ultimate decision rendered unto them by the big guy. What I’m wondering at this point is whether Shellie is ever going to rise to the occasion of writing the “tell-all book” or whether one of Junior’s lovers might do the same. Bets are being placed for the ISBN number of the book…remember, the house always wins.

    • Xena says:

      Junior appears to forget a basic truth about the Bible. It is written for believers so that believers learn right for wrong as it applies to them. The Psalms, and particularly, Psalms 9:16, ends with Hebrew words that mean to pause, meditate and calmly think about it. Thus, when Junior reads Psalms 9:16, it is for him for apply it in his life and to himself, rather than someone else. Self-examination. Get that, Junior?

      • wow, Xena, did you study religion?
        frankly when i read that quote, like 2-3 times, it’s sounds like a riddle to me or gibberish or something.. i have no idea what that really meant. i just can’t understand 90% of the Bible!!

        • Xena says:


          wow, Xena, did you study religion?

          From as many ministers who could get my attention. LOL!! Actually, I don’t like religion and prefer to say that I’m a spiritual person.

          frankly when i read that quote, like 2-3 times, it’s sounds like a riddle to me or gibberish or something.. i have no idea what that really meant. i just can’t understand 90% of the Bible!!

          As the Apostle Paul wrote (and I paraphrase), words without the meaning of God in them, or taught by his spirit, is like ink and paper that has no life. As far as it concerns Junior, he quoted the ink and paper. Even the devil quoted scripture.

      • Xena says:

        Oops. That should have been “….so that believers learn right from wrong as it applies to them. Sorry.

      • TommysMom says:

        Ga 6:7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap.

        Psalm 9 To the Chief Musician. To the tune of “Death of the Son.” A Psalm of David.

        Strange that he should use Psalm 9

        • Xena says:

          @TommysMom. It’s strange that Junior uses quotes of Dr. King also. If Dr. King were alive today, he would have organized the same support in gatherings as Reverends Sharpton and Jackson. Yet, Junior sees them as race hustlers – trouble-makers. Funny, that is just what people back in the 60’s said about King too.

          • jm says:

            Xena: “It’s strange that Junior uses quotes of Dr. King also….”

            It is clear to me that Junior is a double talking crass con-man who is playing to a crowd of potential contributors and admirers like the conservative “Christian” squirrels at the treehouse. If he isn’t running a con and Junior really believes what he is saying, he has clearly lost his mind. Either way, Junior is despicable and I can’t wait to see him slither away when his brother is found guilty.

          • Xena says:


            It is clear to me that Junior is a double talking crass con-man who is playing to a crowd of potential contributors and admirers like the conservative “Christian” squirrels at the treehouse.

            Yep. He quotes Dr. King, but aligns himself with racially bigoted treeslummers and Randy Hahn who, thanks to Trent Sawyer, is recorded saying about Trayvon, “that little nigger deserved to be killed.”

          • manberk says:

            I have taken to the practice of checking out the timelines of people Jr. retweets & talks w/ on twitter. I have yet to see one that didnt consist of racially charged rants against black people, other minorities and of course the Obamas. Jr claims he cant control what they say, but of course he wont admit he can control who he associate with. These are people he’s very very comfortable around. Keep in mind the cousin mention him specifically as being a racist. So its no real surprise. He actually encourages them by ‘favoriting’ their most file tweets, as a reward, like they do rats in a science experiment. With letters to the CH from their pop, and Jrs flock I dont even think they are trying to hide it any longer. I assume they think most people really dont know? Especially with the medias failure to cover them.

          • Xena says:


            Jr claims he cant control what they say, but of course he wont admit he can control who he associate with.


      • Malisha says:

        Shannon, nobody understands 90% of the Bible. It also applied to times that had social, governmental, religious and anthropological backdrops that are not fully understood by anyone living. That’s why it’s so easy for anybody to grab any quotation out of it and make it appear to work in a situation to which it does not apply. A friend of mine who’s an evangelist once told me not to go out on the porch, because of something in the Bible. 😆

      • aussie says:

        There are Bible quote websites where you can enter a few keywords and it will give you a string of quotes containing them. So if he put in “justice” and “wicked” he’d get a choice of quotes, all out of context of course. So anyone who’s never even seen a Bible can give “smart” quotes from it.

        The work of his hands??? one hand holding a gun, carefully moving the other hand out of the way. That ONE act of careful aiming is enough to destroy the self-defence claim.

        The Lord’s justice may have to wait 20 or 50 years, but Florida justice is due around July (or whenever they get the continuance to).

        • Xena says:


          The Lord’s justice may have to wait 20 or 50 years, but Florida justice is due around July (or whenever they get the continuance to).


      • Malisha says:

        Xena, I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to offend you.

    • KittySP says:

      Wow! I’ve been away for quite awhile. Been getting caught up…felt compelled to respond to RZ Jrs tweet. Id have to say that is the first TRUTH he’s ever made mention of. Ironic he would choose a verse of scripture that speaks DIRECTLY about them!

      • racerrodig says:

        That was a prophetic comment by him. Sooooo maybe he see’s that all of FogenPhooles lies will catch up to him…because Trayvon hasn’t lied about anything, nor has the State.

        What a stunning turn of events!

  38. sunnieday7 says:


  39. amsterdam1234 says:

    Thanks professor.
    I was trying to understand what this was all about. Very good explanation.

    I’m guessing BdlR will dump some papers on MOM’s desk again and say ” here are the GPS records for the 26th. They show Trayvon entering the complex and taking shelter at the mail area about 15 minutes before your client stated he saw Trayvon near the cut-through next to Taffe’s place.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        And some nice media headlines.
        “Defendant lied about when and where he first saw Trayvon.”

      • groans says:

        My concern with that scenario is the BDLR also better have a good explanation as to why Trayvon’s 2/26 phone data was not turned over to the defense at the same time the rest of the phone data was turned over. Otherwise, it would look like he was holding back the 2/26 data – and if I were the judge that would, at the least, “smell bad.”

        I can’t think of what that explanation might be. Any ideas?

        • Xena says:


          I can’t think of what that explanation might be. Any ideas?

          Referring back to Dave’s video with Taaffe, that the FBI has it, and has determined that Trayvon did not enter the community by Taaffe’s house. As soon as the FBI copies the information, they will submit certified copies to the State. At least, that is my idea.

      • leander22 says:

        groans: My concern with that scenario is

        Frederick Leatherman: Whether or not this is a Gotcha! game, the prosecution has to turn over all exculpatory information that it has as well as all information obtained from the phone that it intends to introduce at trial. I seriously doubt that any information obtained from that phone is exculpatory.

        Either it is not exculpatory, and MOM stepped into a trap, or it is gone. Assuming the second, nothing was hidden.

        Frederick argues that there may in fact be data. But if it is not exculpatory BDLR has no duty to pass it on.

        I think, he mentioned this before, but yes, it is pretty difficult to store all this legal data if one hasn’t established good synapses on the topic. 😉

      • leander22 says:

        UNLESS he plans to introduce the evidence at trial. Then he has a duty to disclose it.

        Yes, till Tuesday I don’t want to see the clouds and google legal consequences or ponder a more familiar subject, how it could be spun. No matter if it is what we would love, or if it actually isn’t, and BDLR additionally perched on evidence he intends to introduce at trial: Let’s say since the end of September?

        Starting Tuesday morning I will enter that state.

        Bernie, don’t make mistakes, remember the odd little remark about Juan Baez and the consequences? That was a hint from heaven, a warning. Now the stakes are much higher … Please be well prepared and make this at least a storm in the teapot. We bank on you.

      • groans says:

        @Leander – The scenario I referenced assumes that the data does exist and that BDLR would, in fact, give it to the defense (at the hearing).

        @Xena – Yes, something along the lines that the 2/26 data was still under analysis or was not able to be extracted as readily as the other data would make sense and be reasonable.

        After I wrote last night, I also noticed that the defense states in its Motion to Continue:

        > “Initial analysis was done by undersigned over the weekend of January 19, 2013 and there was specific concerns with information that is missing from that analysis.” (Paragraph 9.) And,
        > “Expert analysis is required to further identify these issues.” (Paragraph 10.)

        So maybe the 2/26 data WAS given to the defense at the same time all the other dat was – but they just don’t know it, because they haven’t had an expert analyze it yet?

        That would make a pretty good GOTCHA!, too.

        • Xena says:

          @groans. Yep. The defense needs expert analysis because the prosecution won’t tell them what they know about it. The prosecution doesn’t have to. I wonder what O’Mara is going to do with the clubhouse videos?

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            About all he can do with the clubhouse cctv’s is get someone to examine the time around 6:40 to 7:20pm To get it right, he has to hope that his analyst picks up on the clock error. Then, maybe he can fashion some lie as to why the cctv’s did not pick up GZ’s truck. Of course, before he does that, he’s got to know what TM’s GPS data shows, or risk creating yet another conflicting story/version.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          First of all, GPS data would simply be a comma delimited file (CSV) with latitude and longitude numbers, in one of a few different modes.

          Second, there’s the matter of accuracy that would be different for different days.

          On other days where Trayvon either stayed home or moved by car, things like +/- 4 to 50 feet would hardly matter much at all.

          On 2/26/12, however, where Trayvon moved on foot, the level of accuracy of the data becomes a critical issue.

          The problem is, if the data is meaningless, it won’t be used at trial, thus it is not discoverable. While on the other hand, if it is of some borderline use AND THEREFORE could be potentially exculpatory, the SP will not turn it over in it’s raw state, until they can be certain that the date is not meaningless and/or misleading.

          In either case, the analysts who recovered the data, may not have returned it yet, because they do not yet know if they have real data or have simply recovered gibberish.

          Finally, if the margin of error, for location polling of the phone, is large, there still may be algorithms that can make sense of the data, but they have to be searched for or created. And this will have to be compared to any data that can be recovered from GZ’s phone, since his credibility is insufficient to reliably determine anything at all.

          • Couple things:

            “The problem is, if the data is meaningless, it won’t be used at trial, thus it is not discoverable.”

            It’s better to disclose all of the raw data, including portions that cannot be interpreted for one reason or another, to prevent the defense from arguing that the prosecution is so committed to obtaining a conviction that it has concealed exculpatory results.

            ” And this will have to be compared to any data that can be recovered from GZ’s phone, since his credibility is insufficient to reliably determine anything at all.”

            Shame on you, Lonnie. Everybody knows that we can reliably determine that the fogen is lying every time his lips move.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            On the first point you are correct, so I’ll have to theorize that the experts may not have returned anything yet, because they’re not sure it is real data yet. Which would mean they haven’t succeeded in retrieving anything.

            On the second point, GZ has provided enough material that he no longer needs to move his lips to tell lies, he can let the record speak for him. LOL!

    • We also would find out if your north-between-the-houses theory is right.

      Since this a murder case, I don’t think it would be appropriate to turn the house into a casino betting on various outcomes to various disputed facts, but I’d be lying if I were to say the notion had not crossed my mind.

      Hint: The house always wins.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        I’ve been thinking about that since we’ve heard about possible GPS records. I hope Trayvon took that northern path because that would show without a shadow of a doubt, GZ was lying. If Trayvon went south, the defense would probably still have some wiggle room.

        • Xena says:

          @amsterdam1234. I just connected 2 dots. Remember in Dave’s video with Taaffe, they discussed that the FBI said Trayvon entered the community at a location other than by Taaffe’s house? Well, I wondered how they would have determined that. Maybe now we know.

      • boyd says:

        I honestly hope those cell phones were not designed to be tracking devices. LOL.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        I think you are right, Xena.

        • Xena says:

          @yahtc. Makes sense, doesn’t it? How else would the FBI how Trayvon came into that community.

          @Boyd. As bad as it may sound like an invasion of privacy, each time I watch television about missing people, I somewhat wish that cell phones were like Lo-jacks to trace their location.

      • towerflower says:

        Xena, in a way they are. There is also a high profile case of a missing woman from Central Florida a year ago. They had information to track the cell phone to it’s last known location. It was found at the bottom of a lake, most likely thrown there from a passing vehicle on a bridge. I was amazed that they were able to find the phone but they did.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        fred, i love your wry sense of humor 🙂

      • leander22 says:

        Xena, I have to admit that I have enormous problems listening to Taaffe. I did not realize at all there was a different way to enter on that corner, Only when I saw photos, I wondered why Trayvon would not have entered higher up, I’ll watch the video again. I remember, I was a bit confused by how far down Taaffe’s house suddenly appeared, compared to the reenactment video, but seemingly was completely distracted (angry 😉 ) by Taaffe’s argument how Trayvon should have walked home .. Why do they all think they can order people what to do?

        For whatever reason, I got the impression Taaffe thought the FBI agreed with him. Let’s see how that happened. 😉

        • Xena says:


          For whatever reason, I got the impression Taaffe thought the FBI agreed with him.

          Taaffe thought he set the FBI straight. He mistakenly believes that his word is absolute and final without considering that the FBI had a reason for saying that Trayvon entered elsewhere.

      • Amsterdam1234 says:

        The GPS data appears to be recently obtained data, and Taffe is full of it.

        • Xena says:


          The GPS data appears to be recently obtained data, and Taffe is full of it.

          Full of alcohol, caca, or both? 🙂

      • kimmi says:

        “Hint: The house always wins.”

        I would bet its kind of like a house of cards right now that are getting ready to come tumbling down. Hehe

        Awesome article Professor! Thank you

      • Malisha says:

        I believe Ben Crump said that Trayvon had to punch in the code to enter the community at the gate.

      • PYorck says:


        The GPS data appears to be recently obtained data, and Taffe is full of it.

        Yes, but the infamous ping logs were obtained long ago, shortly before the arrest (!). Of course it remains to be seen what and how much they show, but there are two sources of location information.

    • SRA says:

      Is there a source for that information? Not to challenge you but that’s very important informtion.

    • Jun says:

      Its obvious he is lying anyways, due to the contradictions

      On the NEN phone call, he says that Trayvon is by the clubhouse and gives the address to the clubhouse

      Car lights are seen at the club house videos

      then during reenactment he makes up the TAffe thing and suddenly Trayvon can walk faster than a car

      • Xena says:

        Know what Jun, it never made sense to me that in his re-enactment, GZ alleged seeing Trayvon at Taaffe’s, and then pulls up to the clubhouse leaving Trayvon behind. I mean, Trayvon could have gone in any direction, so why did GZ assume he would walk to the clubhouse?

        Then, on Hannity’s GZ said that Trayvon did not look like someone who was getting their mail. He told off on himself, that he saw Trayvon in the mail shed.

        Then, the FBI tells Taaffe that Trayvon did not enter the gated community by his house.

        What is O’Mara to believe? Hahahaha.

      • aussie says:

        Xena, the story in the re-enactment was that he decided NOT to observe Trayvon, as he was in a hurry to get to the shops and last time it was ages before the police got there. So he drove off and decided to just call it in. Not caring which way Trayvon was going to go.

        He stopped at the clubhouse to make the call (being a decent and sensible person not wanting to drive while on the phone). Only when Trayvon caught up, circled him and otherwise acted suspicious did he ditch his plans about shopping, and decide to follow him after all.

        This whole story was designed to deny any hint of car-to- pedestrian chase. Even after the mailboxes, he doesn’t “follow” Trayvon….he innocently pulls up at the bend (on the wrong side of the road) and Tray appears out of nowhere and circles him again.

        THIS makes him suspicious enough to decide to look for him on foot. Again not following, just “maintaining visual” because Sean had asked him to. And again, there was no car-to-pedestrian chase, as Trayvon walking had gotten into cover near the T faster than G was able to drive from the mail shed to the next bend.

  40. Xena says:

    (Limping behind after dinner.)

  41. seallison says:

    IMO, MOM will be granted his requested extension. The judge will not deny his request only to have the denial grounds for an appeal.

    Other than that, MOM will not be celebrating victory on Tuesday. I am particularly looking forward to West’s tirades. Pure theater.

    I know the Martin family (at least the family attorneys) will be there.

    It will be interesting to see if the Zzzzzs and company will be present.

    Funny how the last Hearing was cancelled giving the impression that there were no issues. Now, all of a sudden, in Mom’s world, nothing is going right.

    • KA says:

      I thought the same thing. The last hearing cancelled due to “no issues” and now the defense is griping about things back to August 2012.

      It all seems nonsensical grandstanding…

    • truthseeker66 says:

      I think it will b denied. Remember Sandusky? His lawyer tried that and the judge denied…

    • Jun says:

      I dont see any reason to continue but I am not the judge

      I dont believe that “Omara is too lazy to do work and rather beg for money in the media and make up lies and try the case in the media…” is sufficient for a continuance

      Lets be real, Omara has done no work at all, and simply took 70K out of the defense fund for himself

  42. wow! what a deviously delightful plan you bring up Prof. about BDLR being *forced* to blab in open court what the GPS says on Feb26!!!
    That must be one of those special *lawyer* tricks, only another lawyer would think of!LOLO

    and yes BDLR can’t act like Omar in front of the Judge. he has to be professional and he can’t grandstand and act a fool like Omar is.
    But i can tell in this last answer that he’s over it really. and so are we.

    but man when this kinda stuff happens, when Omar goes on the media tour it depresses me. those lies and innuendos about Trayvon and his family should not be allowed. There has to be some NEW legislation, or something to address this kind of Victim assassination (at least outside the courtroom) does anyone think they’ll be some changes with all these types of activities against victims?

    I’m not worried about Ben Crump and Nat Jackson, they can handle it. but the BS against Trayvon and his family should be OFF LIMITS!! it sets a bad precedent for the victims of any crime, but especially murder victims.. they can’t defend themselves!
    but i’m really worried about this behavior.

    • boyd says:

      No worries about the DA. I’m worried about Florida. Casey Anothony trial I’ll never figure out

      I am not impressed with OMara/West. I listened to the hearings I’m screaming THEY WANT THE DA TO DO THEIR WORK. Then I found this blog I was “yeah I knew I wasn’t nuts”.

    • Lito says:

      I agree Shannon. There has to be a line drawn at some point

  43. KA says:

    I have to ask, what are they looking for in GPS data and why is it even important?

    GPS data (currently a form of triangulation) is only accurate to a certain range (I forget what it is up to). Are they trying to prove Trayvon went somewhere ELSE that day? They have a path home…any GPS coordinate would only be accurate to somewhere in a 100 meter area so his exact path may not even be able to be determined within that area to what is already presented and assumed.

    I am truly confused as to the importance of GPS data for that specific day. Maybe he had a map app that may be extracted for location from Cellebrite, but even so, what is the exact value of knowing where Trayvon was?

    The data that Cellebrite would get off the phone that they may not have got from T Mobile or the naked device is App history, maybe location through a Map App, chats, social media postings done through the phone, etc. I am still confused as the the importance for the defense especially.

    • Apparently, they can get to within 20 feet of the phone’s location.

      • boyd says:

        Yes, I worked with GPS and Flash 6 years ago. About 10-20 feet with Commercial apps. Military apps are within 1-2 feet.
        Military has at least 1 extra satellite.

        #1 I don;t know how often they write GPS data to flash. 1/2/3 per mintue? No idea.

        #2 Same with Flash,, when do they write this trivial GPS info? They have to have a limit. Do they overwite by sectors. And how does The Flash driver handle battery low moments. Low battery maybe it does not save it. ?????

        #3 If some intentional attempt to destroy data took place, Well I need an explanation from the manufacturer. I’m not sure what Cellbrite told O’mara. Not being able to extract and Intentional destruction is a big leap.

      • KA says:

        Hi Boyd.

        I had the same kind of questions except this is a T Mobile phone and I am not sure it had GPS capabilities. I can’t remember the phone now, but it was a lower end smart phone. Over half of T Mobile phones are not GPS capable. If they are getting location of the device (and there is no GPS chip), it would have to be done as some other location based service like a map app which uses crowd sourcing of WIfi and stuff. They could get that (if he had the app launched and active) from the app history, not really the device.

      • KA says:

        Oh, and you are very right….if Trayvon has been talking for up to four hours that day with Witness 8, then he could have had his phone on battery conservation mode which would disable the wireless data to conserve battery for voice. Wireless internet takes significant amount of battery life, which I thought would be the way they got coordinates I believe.

      • Malisha says:

        If they can come within 20 feet of the phone’s location, then I want to know where it went AFTER 7:30 pm and how long it stayed in which offices in the SPD.

      • KA says:

        Hey, looked at the Comet and it comes preloaded with a TeleNav GPS app.

        It works when the app is engaged. It also drains the battery quicker (just looked at a few of the reviews)…anyway, I thought I would pass that along.

      • Malisha says:

        Let’s just, arguendo, say that there was GPS information that confirmed ALL the exact footsteps that Fogen described. I could easily write you two (among probably five thousand) possible scenarios that use the same GPS information, and therefore, there is no way to know which (or whany) of them occurred, from that data:

        1. Scenario 1 – Trayvon [skipped or ran, GPS will not tell us which] down toward the back entrance to the neighborhood and then hid in the [bushes or darkness, GPS will not tell us which] until about 30 seconds after Fogen hung up from Sean at NEN, and then “emerged from the darkness again” and said, [“What’s your fucking problem, homie?” or “What’s your fucking problem?” or “What’s your problem?” GPS will not tell us which] whereupon Fogen said, “I don’t have a problem man,” and looked down at his pockets whereupon he was punched in the nose and [fell back or stumbled and tiger-swiped, GPS will not tell us which] and then Trayvon somehow mounted Fogen and punched him [three or more or up to 16 or more, GPS will not tell us which] times and slammed his head [many times but GPS will not tell us how many] on the concrete while Fogen yelled “help me help me” and said to a witness, “He’s killing me; don’t call 911” [or not, GPS will not tell us which] and then Fogen pulled out his gun and shot one time and Trayvon fell 40 feet away on his face while saying [You got me or you got it, GPS will not tell us which]. OR

        2. Scenario 2 – Trayvon [walked fast or walked or ran or skipped, GPS will not tell us which] until Fogen caught up with him and confronted him, whereupon Trayvon said, “Why are you following me?” at which point Fogen answered, “What are you doing around here?” at which point Fogen drew his gun [GPS cannot tell us at which point this happened] and Fogen did or did not interrogate Trayvon [GPS cannot tell us which] and Fogen did or did not put Trayvon in a wrist-lock [GPS cannot tell us which] and Fogen shot one bullet into Trayvon and Trayvon said ow [or not, GPS cannot tell us] and died.

        The choreography of where each went, at one second or another second, will not change any of the essential parts of either Scenario 1 or Scenario 2. What we know without any GPS records is that the bullet entered Trayvon Martin’s clothing at point blank range and entered his chest at intermediate range. At no angle. And that George had very minimal injuries, not consistent with having endured a serious attack and beating. And GPS does not tell us, but the recorded phone call between Fogen and Sean DOES tell us, that Fogen was following Trayvon because he, Fogen, thought he, Trayvon, was “a suspect” and did not want him to “get away” once “he ran.”

        O’Mara is killing time. His motives are his own. His client killed Trayvon Martin. His motives were obvious and he stated them.

    • yeah i didn’t think they would get much use from the gps either until, **yesterday** when i read in the papers that they can locate the phone w/i about 10 ft.!! i find that very interesting!! i thought it was more like a mile, but 10 feet could prove how long and how far gz actually stalked Trayvon 10 feet at a time!! it could show what a filthy liar gz was on his statements too, by disproving Trayvon ever CIRCLED his stupid ass car, much less twice! that would no doubt put a real spank down on gz’s many lies!

      • shannon….So, are these the “Ping” records that the outhouse has been yapping about all along? Now there’s a possibility that they’re about to learn that those “pings” are going to destroy their hero’s story……..I can’t wait to read the excuses they spin after this is revealed….They are so pathetically amusing.

      • towerflower says:

        I wondering what GZ’s pings were, did he really only hang around the T area or did he go looking for TM?

      • i don’t know what the morons are talking about pings!! lolo but it could be this kinda stuff.

        but we can be sure that Trayvon’s gps will prove gz lied about where Trayvon was, and THAT will blow up his stupid stories about Trayvon circling his stupid car!

      • leander22 says:

        I don’t read the treehousers often, can you give me a link? OK, I can search for their articles containing ping. But it may well be a waste of time.

        Is ping really related to anything but the server availablity? I am no expert, but I use the ping command only to check if a server is down, or if the problem is on my side. Just checked Frederick’s web address and in 175 milliseconds got the answer that yes, he is available. Something I knew before.

        • By “pinging” they were referring to a cellphone communicating with a cell phone tower within range, which I think is usually within 20 miles. Has to be a straight line without anything in the way like a building or a hill. This is why cell phones don’t work in mountainous areas. To get an accurate location, there must be at least 3 towers within the 20 mile range. Need 3 towers and a map to triangulate and determine a location. GPS also works with satellites.

      • leander22 says:

        Frederick, I once read a story, I guess it would be really hard to find now, since I unfortunately do not remember the name.

        During the hot red alert 911 time, an American artist of Arab descend somehow made his movements completely transparent on the web via his cell phone. His argument was, look if you would please stop bothering me any time I simply want to board a plane, you can have it all. Every step I make, every movement I make will 24/24 be available for you on the net. I found the story inspiring.

        I think there is a serious contradiction in Jeralyn’s latest arguments, on one hand: Age of the Tele-Rat: Trayvon Martin’s Missing Cell Phone Data, conveniently putting Tele-Rat next to Trayvon Martin, and then trying to cover her steps with concern about the protection of private data.

        On the other support of the fundraising effort of Team Fogen and equally strong support O’Mara gets even the most intimate information about witnesses, suddenly her concern about private information has gone.

        I guess it comes with partisanship.

        I was terrified about the idea, that my credit card details could be perused by an attorney, his staff, and a defendant completely unknown to me, simply because I used it an hour before or up to three quarters of an hour later in a shop. While the defendant is really may well be interested in one credit card only. What exactly is he looking for?

        Hat tip to blushedbrown for alerting us to this.

        I could buy cigarettes or cigarillos when I was six-teen over here. I find the argument the blunt possibly could explain “Trayvon’s aggression” highly silly. He could have simply cast it away. Even more silly is the argument concerning the button. Funny that they expected something obscene on it. Rooms full of mirrors?

        It was a pleasure to read your article. Dave’s article accompanying his Taaffe video is very good too. I have to admit that my suspicion always was that he could have been taken in by Fogen. to a certain degree too. Manipulators play people well.

    • PYorck says:

      The 100 meter that you mention were accurate before 2000 when the civilian was artificially degraded. These days it is down to a few meters.

      The GPS data can be enormously important in this case. Depending on the time and number of measurements you could get very good evidence for Trayvon’s path. That could answer whether GZ’s account of TM’s movements is accurate and whether anything like the ambush at the T could have happened.

      • amsterdam1234 says:

        I hope so. That kind of information would be game, set, match.

      • KA says:

        I work in telecommunications and let me explain my confusion…The mandate was required for E911 Phase II which was due for implementation in 2005/6 but several carriers missed it. They do this through three means 1) a network based solution or a 2) handset based solution or 3) a hybrid of both. T Mobile (Trayvon’s phone provider) uses U-TDOA which is accurate to 50M (Phase II regulation for E911 minimums for 95% of calls) for E911. It is also a network based solution and not a handset based solution. I am fairly positive that it would not be stored on the handset its (whether data card or SIM), more likely if they have “GPS” info, it is actually coordinates obtained by a map app or other device. I am not a handset guru (I work in network data), but I am even confused 1) how they are getting “GPS” data (it would have to be an app that estimates coordinate through a wireless IP connection and 2) why the DEFENSE would really want the information. I understand why the State would, but what is the benefit for the defense of the location of Trayvon’s phone?

        • PYorck says:

          It was an Android phone with a real GPS receiver. Apps on that phone can get positions without any cooperation from the network or user intervention. That includes stock Android apps like Google Maps, location based search, the camera etc. The same is true for many common third-party apps.

          How often the phone checks the location and how much of that information is saved varies depending on your settings and apps, but it can add up to quite a lot.

      • KA says:

        Now location of what is called “Cell ID” would be stored on the SIM card I know that, but exact E911 based location from a network based solution? I do not think it does (as it is an algorithm done by a vendor (in this case TruePosition) in real time at the time of 911 or emergency call.

        I guess in thinking about it, the importance of the Defense getting this is to see if it contradicts what GZ claimed…okay, I get it now..

        • Xena says:


          I guess in thinking about it, the importance of the Defense getting this is to see if it contradicts what GZ claimed…okay, I get it now..

          Ahhh. Now it’s making more sense. So, when the FBI told Taaffe that Trayvon entered the gated community at a location other than by Taaffe’s house, they weren’t speculating nor blowing smoke.

          GZ probably wishes that Wolfinger had proceeded on the capias for manslaughter and avoided the feds.

      • boyd says:

        KA, I was a software developer years back on Flash/GPS military app. I have confidence in your statement.

        My initial thought was it’s not accurate enough and cell phones were not designed to reconstruct your days every move. LOL

        So I doubt they can do much. But we will see soon, by now some experts should be commenting on this..

      • KA says:

        I will find out next week for information. I know several contacts that extract LBS information for targeted advertising and T Mobile is one of their clients.

        I think you are right. I do not think they got that info off the data card or the SIM card.

        It would have to be a mapping app history (which Cellebrite can do uniquely) and it would have to assume an active app on the phone. What he is calling “GPS” may be just a conversion of CellID data.

      • Jun says:

        Considering the locations are off by about 20 feet, It will not be exact…. besides w18 witnessed it from the confrontation onward…. she mentions no T

      • PYorck…..Trayvon’s phone cut off several times in the middle of his conversation with DeeDee. How would this affect the tracking?

      • Aunt Bea says:

        Back to the GPS data….
        What sort of tracking is on vehicles these days? GZ’s in particular.

        With all (LLMpapa and Co.) work (props to you all) over GZ’s movements (light events), I ask, would GZ’s truck GPS be accurate to within a certain range, too? I hear newer vehicles have primo GPS logging built right in. Insurance companies wanting to protect their assets and all.

        How difficult it must be to defend a liar.
        How difficult it must be to protect a liar.

        I guess O’Mara loves a challenge?

    • sdunn5 says:

      Cellebrite cellebrite dance to the music……oops my they mean Cellebrex? I think …GPS on a cell phone….and you can correct me if I am wrong….is for navigation. At least that is what my good friend used it for while we were at a conference in Phoenix a year ago… actually talked us all the way to the address of our hotel…..recalculating!!!!!!!!

  44. YvetteEU says:

    excellent post Professor Thank you

  45. Trained Observer says:

    Regarding, above: I profess to the overuse of the word professor … , professor.

  46. Trained Observer says:

    As an unwavering advocate for free speech and freedom of the press, it pains me to bring this up: It’s time for Judge Nelson to issue a gag order on O’Mara and any other motor-mouths closely involved in the Trayvon Martin murder case. O’Mara’s now nearly daily reports on fund-raising for fatso are beginning to mirror a Jerry Lewis telethon. Except in this case, the cause is unworthy.

    Thank you, professor, for the MOM and BDLR motion links, professor. I now plan to settle in for their review, with particular attention, as you have noted, to Page 8. Never can resist a good teaser.

    • I also support free speech, but I also believe it’s time for a gag order.

      • racerrodig says:

        Is it me or is every Motion by O’ Mara appear to be written by a rank amateur ? I do CFA expert reports for several lawyers and see Motions all the time not to mention what our attorney does for our mortgage fraud suit, and I know what good work looks like and that ain’t it !!

        BDLR is far more professional in every aspect or is it me? Am I just not used to O’ Mara’s style, which is as we know, whine, deceive, avoid facts, whine, lie, complain, whine, blame everyone else, fail to act……did I say whine?

        • Since early on in this case, I have been saying that I do not believe he is ready for prime time.

          • racerrodig says:

            So it’s not me !! Back in 09 – 10 my wife and I were trying to get our lawyer (the young guy working for our present lawyer) to get our Federal Lawsuit filed. Over a year and finally I got disgusted, and over the Memorial Day weekend 2010 found all the statutes and several filed by others and did it myself.

            It was filed by our lawyer VERBATIM other than the legal stuff he had to add as far as representation as such. I have to say, I am damn proud of that work and If I can do a professional job having been just an expert witness, what the hell is O’ Mara doing.

            Knowing what I know and what constitutes professional, more than just competent work…….well, Fogen, you in big trouble….that’s all I got to say on that.

          • The fogen has not exactly distinguished himself as a person who makes wise choices.

          • racerrodig says:

            I just don’t get it, but then I would be trying to apply logic to an illogical mind.

      • Jun says:

        All of Omara’s motions seem to be fairly the same except the new ones have a little bit extra added

        Perhaps he is trying to piss the judge off

        because just about everything the judge covered so long ago

        and Omara is the one purposely delaying everything

      • Professor….Does the prosecution keep Trayvon’s parents informed regarding all the evidence?… In other words, have they been informed of things that cannot yet be revealed to the public?

    • leander22 says:

      Florida law enforcement has responded too, well worth reading. Interesting what Jeralyn picks out. Prosecution and aligned parties are clearly fighting back with their responses as far as the media campaign is concerned. Very good argument. I wonder if the supporters that have surfaced again have read it, and don’t rely only on the focus of her attention. Yes there is a game, and the way they put it may be slightly manipulative too, but then? Defense have focused attention on specific parts of it too. This seems to be what the documents they demand contains:

      Each biography contains the following information:

      The witness’s name, date of birth, physical description, a photo, the witness’s social security number, driver’s licence number, information obtained from Experian (credit reporting agency), vehicle description and tag numbers, employment information, phone numbers, the contact information and social security numbers of known associates, arrest history (including arrests that have been expunged), and a list of social media site to which the witness belongs.

      Wouldn’t a witness trust these information to be safe? That’s their argument in a nutshell.

      Bernie and FDLE work perfectly in lock step and as a stupid foreigner I am quite relieved that there is in fact protection of this type of data in the US. It feels to me, Jeralyn distracts from the issue and instead concentrates on “unjustified suspicions”, my term, slightly reminiscent of the way she dealt with judge Lester’s motion. …

      Strictly what Team Fogen demands seems to be the social media information and address only, but are they distracting too? How could I know?

      Maybe this may be of interest to some here, Cashmere:

      Meanwhile, I agree that Zimmerman and his defense team need help, which is why I donated a few days ago (apparently I am one of the 160). I am also tired of the insults thrown at those of us that do donate (not here, but at Huffington… claiming those who donate are stupid, racist, etc.). I am none of these things. They also label those who donate as Republicans…. I am also VERY liberal politically. Thanks for letting me rant, and thanks for the accurate information that is available to us on this site re: this case Jeralyn (and other cases).

      I didn’t notice yesterday that she quite possibly closed down the comment section, offering a new article for discussion. Not many of the people have followed here there. This is good news, from my specific public opinion perspective.

      Sorry, long and Jeralyn again, this woman fascinates me, as you can see. 😉

      • fauxmccoy says:

        poor dude, donated money
        so that george can gorge
        who’s the bigger fool?

        hey fred, can we start a little lotto game on what george’s final weigh in will be come trial/plea deal? please??

      • Malisha says:

        Wow, are we supposed to feel sorry for Cashmere because he or she feels bad that people are criticizing folks who willingly donate their money to Fogen’s alleged defense? Here’s my response to that: Grow up. You don’t like being criticized when you have done nothing wrong? You’re not racist or bigoted or even Republican and you’re a good “look at me I do good” liberal? Boo hoo effin’ hoo. Try THIS instead:

        You’re a good person who has done nothing wrong and you’re not racist or bigoted or even Republican and then suddenly somebody kills your kid; as soon as your kid gets killed you get told a stupid fairy-story that your kid apparently committed a vicious, savage attack upon an armed good guy who was minding his own business and looking for an address, and your now-dead kid almost killed the good guy, who was squeaky clean (and oh yeah, your kid first circled the good guy’s car, figure that), and forced this good guy to shoot him in the heart with a hollow-point bullet. But don’t you complain. Don’t you go and get “handlers” and try to get the good guy arrested just for killing your kid, don’t you do that. Because you’re obviously a rotten parent and a welfare fraud and a thug-raiser and a ne’er doer well and we know all about you and you’ll be sorry if you get handlers to try to do even MORE harm to the good guy after what your thug son already did to him. Don’t you even dare. Don’t even think about it. Scum. There, how do you like THAT criticism?

        Grow effen UP, Cashmere. You don’t like being criticized for donating your money? Aww, that’s just terrible, I don’t know how you can tolerate it.

        Man up.
        Give your money and take your lumps. You thin-skinned self-righteous pontificating methane bag. Vote Democratic if you like; that won’t change what I think about you and what I’m entitled to SAY about it either.

      • Jun says:


        How is Jeralyn’s site accurate?

        Of course people will laugh at you if you donate to Fogenhats

        You claim he needs help with his trial defense of himself

        out of $300,000 or more, how much actually went to his defense?

        How much was greedily spent on themselves by the defendant and the lawyer?

        How much was accomplished?

        Does the state not pay for a defendant’s defense if they cannot afford one?

        If they can honestly answer all those questions and still donate money, they are a sucka, plain and simple

        LOL I dont remember ever associating being republican with being with Zimmernuts Fogenhats The 3rd, considering Corey is republican and she is the one grinding his culo into coffee powder

        However, I do associate people who donate with no research, suckas and of not high moral aptitude

  47. PYorck says:

    Outside the courtroom the prosecution has been pretty quiet so far and even in court they haven’t shown their cards much.

    Do I understand you correctly that even at this stage they would happily hit him hard in court as soon as they are given a good excuse?

    • I’d be surprised if BDLR were not itching for an opportunity to draw blood.

      • leander22 says:

        absolutely, considering the scenario. This is a brilliant move. Team Fogen asked for it. It would be inhuman to not respond to this really vicious attack, considering what he tells us now. This is the best I have ever read by Bernie.

        But strictly my impression during the bond hearing was, I wouldn’t want him as opponent at a cross-examination, if I had something to hide.

        Thanks, Professor. Love it! You are pretty good in keeping the spirit up. Admittedly I tend to be slightly pessimistic concerning the ways of the world and justice. Love you! Maybe there is more hope than reason to despair?

        Jeralyn decided to close down the comment space yesterday, the vast pro-Zimmerman majority that lately occupied it seems to have moved on. The mood has completely turned. I consider this good news. Just noticed she joined fund raising efforts. Besides she told early, if memory serves well, such case w/could take years before the trial. I seem to remember the number 2 or 3? She now seemingly has joined the fundraising efforts, I have to read that carefully.

        I know, I promised to not mention her again. But there you go, 😉

      • crazy1946 says:

        Professor Leatherman, After reading the filings from both MOM and BDL, I find it amusing the difference between the professional wording (spelling and grammar) that the have. BDL’s filing is well written and not only spell checked, but the grammar is correct as well, too bad the same can not be said of the amateur like filing from MOM! The more that I see of MOM, the more that I believe that a wise person would not engage his services for even so much as a jay walking ticket….. Is this really the best attorney that FOGON could have found? Wow, just Wow!!! I suspect we will see an appeal granted based on poor representation…..

      • Malisha says:

        Leander, I think Jeralyn is depwesst because she really imagined that O’Mara was going to aggressively jump into a SYG hearing based on Fogen’s terrible, unmentionable, stromifyingly pelluverous injuries that were so callously and savagely and demontibularly inflicted by a Black thug, whose family wouldn’t want all his badness trounced out and paraded in front of the world to go cluck cluck about. She was so deluded about how this thing would go down that she wrote stuff in her early threads as if it was already proven and assumed and “basically undeniable” at that point that Trayvon was beating up her guy Fogen within an inch of his life — and without provocation. Whatever her thing is, whether it’s a secret excitement about Fogen or a secret animus toward young Black males (and whether any of that arose from traumatic circumstances in her own past or not), she called it all wrong. She just plain called it all, all, all wrong. That’s got to be embarrassing.

        Perhaps the biggest blow to Jeralyn’s position was the revelation in December that Serino’s first two takes on this case were: MURDER-2, and MURDER-2. Woah!

        Whatever. She should do some soul searching. She’s probably done a lot of good criminal defense work in the past; Professor says so and he cannot be wrong. On this one, though, she publicly humiliated herself and she would probably do best to fall silent, as has Dershowitz recently. She’s helpless; she’s got to let her guy Fogen take his lumps.

      • Malisha says:

        With regard to the idea that an appeal could be filed based on poor representation, I don’t think that will fly. If Fogen is convicted or even if he pleads and then appeals because he says it was coerced or uninformed, he won’t get a chance to claim “ineffective assistance of counsel” until all the way through the state court appellate process and then on into a federal habeas corpus based on constitutional violations at trial. THAT would be probably five years down the road for a case like this. His habeas corpus petition, if he filed it, would have to show that the representation he got was SO POOR that he was deprived completely of the right to be represented, under the Sixth Amendment. I have seen habeas corpus claims denied even when they were so obvious (the fact that the lawyer was inadequate was so obvious, that is) that it shocked the conscience. For example, in a death sentence case, a defendant said that his counsel was inadequate because he did not put on a single character witness at the penalty phase of the trial, when it was decided whether to give the guy the death sentence or not. The guy told his lawyer he had 25 witnesses but the lawyer did not put on a single one of them. The federal appeals bench that heard the appeal from the habeas corpus once he lost that bid said that no matter how many witnesses his lawyer put on, he would have STILL gotten the death penalty because his crime was so horrible. This was a guy with no prior arrests at the age of 40 and he was later exonerated (after years and years on death row) because he never even committed the crime and THEN it was obvious that the witnesses would have been very important indeed, because nobody could believe that a non-criminal with no indication in his whole life that he might commit a random, murderous, violent act (rape and killing of an 11 year old kid whom he did not know) would suddenly turn into a murderer, then commit a murder on his lunch hour, and then return to work and finish his shift.

        If THAT case didn’t merit a retrial because of ineffective assistance of counsel, believe you me I don’t think Fogen’s getting any purchase out of the fact that O’Mara can’t call down ten plagues on BDLR and divide the Red Sea so he can walk out of this on dry land.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          I don’t know but, in some cases I get the feel that, if the Appellate courts grant the relief sought, the level of scrutiny the case will get and the level of urgency will subside, that might just work against the unjustly convicted. Sometimes “all or nothing” is the only real just way to go.

  48. Two sides to a story says:

    Particularly good writing!

  49. esentrick says:

    BDLR is on fire! Justice for Trayvon!

  50. Patricia James-Cope says:

    Love it!

  51. blushedbrown says:


    Feb 5th is Trayvon’s birthdate. I wonder if Bernie will mention this in court.

    There is alot going on that day.

    The ABC motion to get the tape regading witness 8.

    Click to access motion_for_sub_to_abc.pdf

    Hearing to discuss: 7-11, specific discovery, FDLE, ABC, Continuance

    http ://

    Fireman lost job over posting about the case, wants old job back.

    http ://

    • also on Feb 9 we have Trayvon’s Peace walk (in miami, but anyone in any area is encouraged to organise one where they are) and then on the 10th we’re having a huge dinner/talk/fundraiser event here at a hotel in miami.. i’ll post the advertisement if i can.
      Trayvon’s family will be there and Ben Crump and Jessie Jackson. rev. Sharpton, etc… for Trayvon’s birthday to support his foundation.
      And I’m GOING!! LOLOLOL yippie!!!!

      • hopefully i’ll have pics for you all!! of me!! LOLO :mrgreen:

        JK!LOLO i’ll try to get some of the celebrities too!!
        😆 😆 😆

      • blushedbrown says:


        That will be beautiful to attend. I wish I could be there.
        I think I saw the posting of the event at DothProtest.

        Please, please take lots of pictures Shannon, see we can see the event and you can post it up on your Blog. 🙂

      • groans says:

        I’m so happy for you that you’ll be able to attend Trayvon’s birthday and foundation celebration! You are so passionate and persistent in the fight for Justice For Trayvon.

      • roderick2012 says:

        Shannon, that sounds awesome.

        If I weren’t so far away (WPB) and already had something scheduled for next Saturday I would definitely join you.

  52. blushedbrown says:


    Excellent post.

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