Tuesday, January 29, 2013
Jeff Weiner of the Orlando Sentinel reported today that Mark O’Mara has filed his Answer to the Associated Investigative Services’s lawsuit filed against him and George and Shellie Zimmerman for breach of contract.
He says O’Mara has denied most of the factual allegations in the complaint, but:
He does, however, admit several allegations:
• That he told AIS in August that “both George and the trustee [overseeing his defense fund] are clamping down” because “we have some very large expenses for the case coming up.”
O’Mara also said “George does not have any funds presently available to him to attend to any such debt, realizing the enormity of upcoming expenses of the defense and the diminished nature of the defense fund.”
• That AIS was “unable to obtain either a signed written retainer” with O’Mara, or the “outstanding balance on the services rendered.”
• That no payments have been made to AIS by O’Mara since August.
Weiner does not indicate if O’Mara’s answer was filed on behalf of the three defendants or just himself.
It’s difficult for me to tell what is going on or to make any predictions without reading the complaint and answer.
Apparently, he is admitting that there was an oral contract and he seems to be claiming that he warned the plaintiffs that his client was out of money, but it does not appear that the services were terminated or adjusted.
That does not seem like much of a defense to me and if George and Shellie cannot pay the bill, which they cannot, then O’Mara may be stuck with the bill.
That should be extremely depressing news to a man who claims to be working pro bono.
Equally if not more depressing should be the realization that no investigators or experts are going to agree to do any work for him unless he pays them up front. Since he cannot afford to do that, he will not be able to adequately prepare for trial. Therefore, he is setting himself up for a malpractice claim in addition to this lawsuit.
Mark O’Mara has 27,000 and counting reasons to ditch the defendant as a client and the longer he waits to pull the trigger, or file for an order of indigency to proceed at public expense, the deeper the doodoo.
He needs to act and he needs to act NOW.
Frederick Leatherman Law Blog 
New Post Up:
The Defendant is Indigent in the Trayvon Martin Murder Case
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-defense-fund-update-20130131,0,2645095.story
Dashamimi~ THAT was fun! Thanks for the link! GZ has gained ONE HUNDRED AND FIVE POUNDS!! YOWZA!!
309 LB GZ piggerman who knew?
This phone thing is going to explode things. We know that TM did not run towards GZ, but GZ came at TM. Now all we need to know is by what route GZ got behind TM after he ran.
I also wonder why there’s no GPS data from GZ’s phone, eh?
Possible scenarios of how this saga could end
SCENARIO 1: O’Mara is not liable, the Fogen is
O’Mara: I am an agent acting on behalf of my principal, the Fogen; this was known to the plaintiff (AIS); I acted within the bounds of the authority granted to me by the principal; I am therefore not liable.
The Fogen: I am the principal; O’Mara acted on my behalf; This was known to the plaintiff (AIS); O’Mara did not exceed the authority granted to him; I am liable.
SCENARIO 2: O’Mara and the Fogen are both liable
O’Mara: I am an agent acting on behalf of my principal, The Fogen; This was known to the plaintiff (AIS); I acted within the bounds of the authority granted to me by the principal; I am therefore not liable.
The Fogen: I am the principal; O’Mara acted on my behalf; This was known to the plaintiff (AIS); BUT O’Mara exceeded the authority granted to him; I authorized O’Mara to enter into contract of not more than $40.000,00.- for the duration of 3-months; I am not liable, O’Mara is.
SCENARIO 3: O’Mara is liable, not the Fogen
O’Mara: I contracted in my own name on behalf of my principal; I contracted for the benefits of the Fogen; I shall pay AIS and seek redress from the Fogen;
SCENARIO 4: O’Mara is liable, not the Fogen
O’Mara: I am an agent; I contracted on behalf of my principal, The Fogen; This was known to the plaintiff (AIS); I acted within the bounds of the authority granted to me by the principal; I am therefore not liable.
The Fogen: No, I am NOT the principal; O’Mara did not have my (actual or implied) authority to enter into any contract; O’Mara did NOT act on my behalf; whether or not this was known to the plaintiff (AIS) is none of my business; AIS may have assumed that O’Mara has ‘(implied’ or ‘apparent’) authority’ to contract on my behalf; AIS – as any diligent third party ought to have done – should have checked with me first to know if- and to what extent O’Mara was acting on my behalf; I am NOT liable, O’Mara is. AIS can go pound sand.
NOTE: there is no evidence that the Fogen asked O’Mara to enter into contract with AIS. As long as Fogen does not step up and accept full responsibility and /or O’Mara provides proof of his authority, AIS has as good as nothing on Fogen and Shellie. Fogen and Shellie can even claim that they were meant to understand that the security provided by AIS was AIS’s way of making contribution to the defense fund!
Given the killer’s credit history, I doubt that AIS or anyone else would extend him any credit at all without a “cosigner” such as O’Mara.
There is a pattern of conduct by AIS and its employees that establishes detrimental reliance, communication back and forth regarding changes and performance, and payment for some services rendered. That doesn’t leave much room for ambiguity or misunderstanding and O’Mara does not appear to be denying the existence of the contract.
When a lawyer employs services for a client’s benefit, the service provider looks to the lawyer for payment. Most lawyers get money up front in the form of a refundable retainer they deposit into a trust account to pay costs, or they pay the service provider out of the settlement or judgment. Either way, the lawyer pays the service provider. The service provider, unless a medical or mental health professional treating or evaluating the client, has no contact with the client and no discussions about the service or the cost of the service provided. The lawyer handles that, keeps the client informed and obtains the necessary consent or agreement from the client to give the service provider the go-ahead.
Any solution that does not put MOM on the front line, loses the protection of his attorney client privilege and therefore makes the security team subject to being deposed by the SP. Meaning that they would have to divulge any conversations they overheard or had or witnessed. I’m pretty sure that would mean even more versions of what happened that night would come to light. MOM doesn’t want that, so he has to stay out front and be responsible for these charges.
I am so glad to see posters arriving here from all the different news sites where they commented as Trayvon advocates.
This Leatherman blog is becoming more and more powerful as all of you join up.
I arrived here about two months ago from the MSNBC newsvine site.
@Professor.
Maybe they should add Peter Pan as a defendant.
HA!! LOL
Thats it my new officiall nick name for foggen M .O.M…D..West…
THE LOST BOYS….
Hopefully even more apt when the verdicts returned.
Sorry if this has been said already Im reading comments backward per useall.
My soulutions to foggens dillema…
Do a paid media tour blitzz..Young Turks… Hanaty..
A Live pay per veiw event foggen takes a lie detector test live on tv/pay per veiw.
BANKRUPCY.
Id go for the third option as most likely as he has been banlrupt his entire life both in finance an morally.
Mark O’Mara has 27,000 and counting reasons to ditch the defendant as a client and the longer he waits to pull the trigger, or file for an order of indigency to proceed at public expense, the deeper the doodoo.
He needs to act and he needs to act NOW.
Simples
Just get foggen alone in his office.
foggen was up Homes ?
M O M …Why do you call me that?
foggen…Cos your like my main man searching out all the clues an stuff.All that bs them is saying bout me shooting that kid a mean scary dude.Like my own personal Sherlock Homes ya get it?
M O M …Yes very amuseing though but moveing on I have spmething I need you to sign.
foggen..No problemo homes what is it?
M O M Oh nothing realy you no how the court has ruled against us on sevral matters like stoppong your autograph signing tour ect?
foggen Do I ? THAT REALY PISSED ME OF.
M O M I know I Know we were all realy anoyed an indignant about that to.So I just need you to sign this paper saying were fileing an oficial reqest of indignation to the court.
foggen..Sure Homes give it here how you spell that indignant word homes.
M O M ..I N D I G E N CY.
My morning laugh 🙂
On another topic……Why do you think the prosecution asked the following question to gz at the bond hearing?
I think Bernie wanted to expose Fogen for who he really is: unremorseful, insincere, dishonest, manipulative and vile.
Of course he (GZ) has already done that on his own. It isn’t like he needs any help.
Why hasn’t cell records been release?
Not wanting to tip off the defense, let’s just say that the suitability of these materials is dependent upon work product designs. They probably won’t be used at trial, unless and until they’re made relevant.
truthseeker, all he has to decide at this point in time is whether he prefers jam or butter.
O’Mara’s song:
I like bread and butter,
I like toast and jam,
That’s what my baby feeds me,
I’m gz’s loving man.
I say he”s a butter type guy.
He may be a butter guy, but he’s certainly in a jam now.
i have no doubt that o’mara will take the fall for this debt as he or his representative clearly authorized the security expenses. this has got to be one of the lamest attorney moves i have ever seen. o’mara would be spending the money better visiting a shrink at this point to find out what’s wrong with his head. he is letting his client impact his business and thus his family and any other assets.
MOM needs to win this case to salvage his reputation. If not he is toast.
have to agree with you there – but do not see it as likely. his client is toxic and tends to take every one with whom he is in close contact down to his level.
mom’s working pro bono pro bozo
As at November 28th, 2012
1) The original fund was formed by fogen himself — before his arrest,
2) TheRealGeorgeZimmerman.com website was shut down by fogen at the request of his lawyer, MOM, who became aware of the funds shortly after the April 20th Bond Hearing. After learning of the funds, Mr. O’Mara notified the court, and most of the funds were transferred to a trust account, and then shortly thereafter, to the independently managed George Zimmerman Defence Fund.
3) Management of the fund was then transferred to a new fund manager chosen specifically by Mr. Zimmerman’s at the beginning of 2013.
This indicates to me that MOM has absolutely NO control over the fund and is likely relying on what the Fund Manager is telling him as to the amount of money in the Defence Fund.
The fact that the fund was transferred to someone of fogens choosing, of course, tells me there is shady business going on. Perhaps, money is in the account earmarked for defending the scum as MOM believes but will inevitably be used to aid in the escape before trial in reality.
@seallison.
Not according to the Florida Dept. of Consumer Services. It is registered to Mark O’Mara P.A. on behalf of George Zimmerman.
Taken straight from the site. Could there be deception on the site.
I think there’s a lot of lying going on and I have no idea what is happening with the account but it could be why they are screwing AIS and they can put forth their “WE ARE INDIGNANT” scheme with what they are doing
One of the things I find so strange is the publicizing of the lawsuit itself. The Orlando Sentinel did a piece indicating that there was a filing. Yet, they did not publish the paperwork.
Either the Orlando Sentinel is biased and or there is some other unknown reason why it wasn’t made public.
“Indignant” or “indigent.”? Either one will fall flat.
the one that means broke, i may have misspelled
Just because the fund is a “fund” and just because it is registered as some entity in Florida does not mean that it is a nonprofit corporation organized for some approved charitable purpose and/or that it is tax exempt and/or that donations TO IT are tax-exempt. This is the kind of goddledygook talk that doesn’t make any difference at all. If you donate to something, and you want to deduct your donations from your taxes, you have to have that organization’s assurance in writing that they are an organized, approved 501(c)(3) organization. Believe ME! It takes a lot to get that tax-exemption certificate, too. I worked with the organizers of a 501(c)(3) in the early 90s and we filed all the papers and paid all the fees and then they came back to us and made us change one of our “purposes” because under purposes we had that we were going to promote sales of a certain book that described the situation we were organized to prevent (state agency corruption in the child abuse evaluation system for state courts). The IRS guy told our executive director that if we promoted sale of the book and the book generated revenue for a party (publisher, author) other than our organization, we couldn’t have our tax-free status! So we had to take all mention of the book off our literature and when we put up a booth at a conference, the only books we could sell were those that we had already purchased, so that no profits could be generated by their sales at that point in time! And we are talking about amounts of $25 each and maybe 15 or 16 sales per YEAR!
I will bet that Fogen will find the money that poured into PayPal, plus any contribution by Hannity, will be taxable. O’Mara better give Fogen a referral to a good tax attorney who doesn’t mind not getting paid for his or her work.
@ Malisha and all –
I was waiting for someone – anyone – to make the gift tax clear.
Who pays the Federal Gift Tax? Only the GIVER pays the tax, and only if he/she gives over $13,000 to any individual in
any year. This does not apply to 501(c)3 cor[porations, charities – that were granted non-propfit staus after a rigorous filing and qualification status.
To 501(c)3 charities, you can give all the millions you want, and pay no Federal Gift Tax (but may be limted as to what you deduct as a charitable contributions that tax year, which also depends on your own incme level.).
If you contribute to a private individual and to each you gave less than $13,000, you pay no Federal Gift Tax.
(This was primarily to prevent older people from flinging their millions to family and friends, and leaving no “taxable estate,” for the IRS to get its cut.)
The issue here is that GZ and/or his Trustee MAY possibly pay tax on ALL their receipts from everyone at every level, from 2 Cents (thank you Mountain Man) to $2 Million and above – IF IRS rules that it s some form of taxable compensation. So …. surely the ex-IRS Agent Trustee has requested a Privat Letter Ruling from the IRS on GZ’s tax statuis as “a recipient.” Of course the Trustee does not have to disclose this request for a
Private Letter Ruling, the response, or what it said. That’s what we don’t know, and may not know for years, unless IRS makes the letter precedent by publishing it.
It’s possible Fogen is gaining a huge amount of weight on purpose so that when he makes his escape, he hides out somewhere and hibernates while losing all that weight for six months and then emerges with a new look. I’d say check his “supporters and contacts” and figure out if there are any plastic surgeons among them.
Plastic surgery – weight loss. I would be checking if big brother has a second passport. He is going to bolt and leave everyone (including his wife) holding the bag.
Apparently donations are donations.
From gzlegalcase:
On May 3 we received certification of our registration with the Florida Division of Consumer Services. This allows the Legal Defense Fund to properly accept donations.
These monies will be used for George Zimmerman’s ongoing living expenses, legal costs, and fees for this matter. The funds are being administered by a third-party administrator, who has a background of being a former IRS agent, a Certified Public Accountant, and great experience in dealing with Chapter 7 bankruptcy trustee matters.
We have chosen to use PayPal to collect donations because they offer secure transactions, they have a strong reputation for online monetary transactions, and they are a trusted third-party.
The personal information that is collected as part of your donation process will be kept strictly confidential.
Thank you for your time and your consideration.
“Statement Of Purpose
CONTRIBUTIONS WILL BE USED TO DEFRAY THE COST OF MR. ZIMMERMAN’S DEFENSE AND TO ADDRESS THE ECONOMIC TRAUMA CAUSED BY THE NOTORIETY OF THIS CASE, PARTICULARILY [sic] HA [sic] NAD [sic] HIS WIFE’S INABILITY TO SEEK GAINFUL EMPLOYMENT”
Apparently, the certification expires 5/3/2013. No revenue is reported.
https://csapp.800helpfla.com/cspublicapp/giftgiversquery/giftgiversquery.aspx
Sorry. The certification was found using the name in the search “George Zimmerman.”
That is not what it says on the site – could there be deception on this site.
@seallison. I copied it from the Florida Dept. of Consumer Services with [sic] to denote mis-spellings. Did you check the link and enter “George Zimmerman?” If O’Mara says differently, then he’s the only one who can explain it.
No. I took it directly from the gzlegal site donations page.
@seallison
That page said that the legal defense fund is registered or certified with the Florida Dept. of Consumer Affairs. What I copied is from the Florida Dept. of Consumer Affairs that approved the registration.
It’s registration number CH36428.
Hmmmm….
If Omara would have just given up on the fund and closed it a long time ago, there would be no issues
He could have went to the court, got the state to pay the fees, and then that is that
Their alleged need for defense funds is such a huge lie when a lawyer is provided for you when you cant afford one
There would be no notoriety or popularity of this case, if Fogenhats did not cause the promotion of it, himself, or instigate and start a threatening situation for a kid and then kill the kid
Part of the notoriety is the defendant himself going around making up lies and misinformation on what happened, repeatedly and continuously, and parlaying and playing to crazy racists
And I dont consider getting $300,000 any kind of economic trauma at all
I dont get how anybody falls for their such blatant lies and falsehoods
@Jun.
EXACTLY!
If I were the judge examining to decide whether to declare GZ indigent, I would certainly take notice that in less than a year, he went through $300,000, paid no legal fees, owns no property, has no assets, and couldn’t see this coming down the road.
GZ appears to have an addicted personality. He keeps on going and going until it’s gone.
The other major issue is he did not even spend the money any any legal fees whatsoever, so he cant write off anything
I am doubting any IRS guy will write off him stating for his defense “he made up lies and used random twitters of black kids for a defense” and let him write off any expenses incurred
He’s gonna owe taxes
Also on February 5 in history:
Because Myrlie Evers refused to give up but instead pressed prosecutors to re-open the case of her husband’s murder even though authorities were going to close the case after two hung juries:
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/beckwith-convicted-of-killing-medgar-evers
This is my second post. I too have been reading the blog regularly . . (. am resisting using that word “lurking”). Been enjoying reading the exchange of comments here. It’s nothing like the grenade lobbing going on over at HP. Thanks to all for this intelligent forum.
Abbyj………..I am so happy to see you my friend.
Kind, thank you. I’ve been so touched by your posts. It’s a joy to see you here in this very special forum. So happy to be here. 🙂
abbyj,
Am so pleased you’ve joined us here. You’re a most welcome addition to this wonderful blog
And, you, LD! So so happy to see such a witty, intelligent, and truly inquisitive group here. No wonder you and kindheart found your way here. Your presence is wonderful. Thank you. 🙂
Welcome to the blog.
Fred
Thank you, Fred. It’s a breath of fresh air here. Such a pleasure.
you run a tight ship my friend
and because of that there will be many more refugees
I left huffpo long ago, it was just a mess in the trayvon discussions (I understand the fogens themselves and their infamous proxies were posting there)
luckily I found JQ inthe interim to finding your site at FDL and then your WP
Me too (left HP). Felt like I was talking to 6th graders. No real conversation there.
good to see you here, abbyj 🙂
Faux! Wow, what a gathering here. Cream of the crop. I am so happy to be joining in a bit. Thank you for the welcome. All sentiments graciously returned. 🙂
abbyj…..Is “Twinki Toes” still at HP fighting the battle over there? The zimbots have flagged her (and others) continuously and had so many of her posts deleted. I use to have many of my posts deleted too, so I don’t go there much anymore unless my curiousity really gets to me…..lol
grey winter sky,
Yes, Twinki’s still there as are Hot Headed Paisan, McHell and a few more.
I only comment there in hopes of causing a kerfuffle with LJP and mcaruder (rumored to be papi and jr).
So do I. I like stirring up the ant pile and watching them scatter Looney. 🙂
ugggg……. ljp and mcrauder, the two i find most insufferable.
grey winter sky – do i know you by a different name at huffpost? inquiring minds etc., etc.
looneydoone….LJP is also a regular at the outhouse. I also believe, by the content of the comments, that LJP is either papa or jr z.
@truthseeker66, Yeah, “shenanigans” is one of those old-timey kids’ words, like whippersnapper and kerfuffle. Very descriptive, however. It points the finger to malignant acts but puts a shiny patina on the surface. I kind of like the word but, true: it’s not your everyday way of describing conscious criminal behavior.
BTW: I strongly object to O’Mara’s use of the word “enormity.”
>”. . realizing the enormity of upcoming expenses of the defense. . . ”
Enormity does not mean gigantic. It means heinousness, like “the enormity of fogen’s crime.” Somebody send O’Mara a dictionary. If he’s going to make a big flourish with his vocab in the courtroom, he’d better bone up. And O’Mara only deserves a used and tattered dictionary. He might sell a new book for some quick cash.
abbyj,
I like the words shenanigans, kerfuffle, brouhaha, guttersnipe,old sot, dirty buggers, maudlin old fart, rummy eyed , big muckety mucks, doddering,codger, and such. They remind me of my beloved Grandmother and I often use them
Me too. Great words all. And OM certainly does need a dictionary.
What does Kerfuffle mean? I have never heard of some of these words. to Abbyj, it’s good to see you here and away from the TOXIC HP site. that place is not where I would ever sign up for another account. although when I signed up for my account over there, it wasn’t owned by AOL. I just can’t figure out why these new owners are more than willing to allow the bs that goes on there.
“Shenanigans” is now in very common use among young people, as kind of retro irony-tinged term for cheating that isn’t really that important. So, if you think your favorite contestant on American Idol was shorted in the vote count, you say, “I call shenanigans!” But you wouldn’t use that term for, say, voter suppression, unless you were going for all out irony.
@abbyj,
damn i didn’t know enormity meant heinousness! thank you for letting me know!LOL
i’ll never forget it either, thanks to your fine description “the enormity of gz’s crime.”
nor will i forgive the heinous lies he tells about this innocent boy either!
gotta watch my language around you tho!!LOL
According to wikipedia, Fogenhats’ defense fund does not count as a gift, so he has to pay taxes
“In the United States, the gift tax is governed by Chapter 12, Subtitle B of the Internal Revenue Code. The tax is imposed by section 2501 of the Code.[2] For the purposes of taxable income, courts have defined a “gift” as the proceeds from a “detached and disinterested generosity.”
“Gift tax exemptions
There are two levels of exemption from the gift tax. First, gifts of up to the annual exclusion ($13,000 per recipient in 2009-2012) incur no tax or filing requirement. ”
“”Gifts” received at promotional events are not excluded from taxation:”
Lastly, what Fogenhats did is panhandling and that is taxable income, as that is income and he a large majority on himself, so he cant even write it off
Racer was about close when he said Fogenhats owes $70Large
panhandling – yes, that is the best way to describe it.
I learned that panhandling can be taxed, as it is an income. Some panhandlers make about $40,000 annual
Let’s see now…..2012 taxes are due the middle of April. I wonder if the IRS will let him file for an extention…… 🙄 I’m also wondering if he actually kept track of the amount that came in and his expenditures…….I…..doubt it. Fogen and O’Haha could really use a class on “How To Budget Your Money, 101”.
BTW..Thanks Jun for the info. (and also…lady2soothe)
Jun…..I just discovered this bit of info… http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2012/06/12/the-zimmerman-defense-fund-donations-and-taxes-sorting-it-all-out/
You would think Forbes would understand tax law
None of the donations are considered gifts, according to the wikipedia definition
The money was given from attached and interested generosity
But even if they want to argue that factor, that it is a gift, there was way more than $13,000 there, and none of what he spent was any type of write off
Lastly, it is for his promotional purposes when he raised that money and he used that fund as a promotional purpose and serves a purpose, so he’d have to show it was used for the purpose to write it off, and he barely has spent it on his defense
Oh well, he’s doomed anyways LOL
Jun…Thanks once more…lol…..I guess we’ll know the real deal come mid/end April……’cause if fogen owes the taxman, he sure is gonna have a lot on his mind….all two brain cells of it.
I reached the same conclusion back in May or June when I looked at this, but like I said, tax law never was my specialty and I could be mistaken.
The Forbes article obviously does not dispose of the issue.
I don’t believe the defense has taken a position on this issue. Needless to say, the defense is in big trouble if the donations are taxable income and the team has been assuming otherwise.
GWS & Freddy, I could be wrong but I am basing my theory on my google search of gift taxes, and the definitions is what came up through my search, so the only way I could be wrong is if the definitions that was posted are incorrect because I believe I properly annotated on how it is defined within law
I could be wrong too. I honestly don’t know the answer, but if the Fogen owes income tax on more than $300 K, he’s in far worse financial shape than O’Mara and the trustee of the account realize. The trustee, BTW, is an accountant and former IRS agent. Either way, the account is upside down with liabilities exceeding assets and little chance that situation will change.
Plus, he’s likely going to prison for the rest of his life.
Might the other victim of fogens sexual molestation be little sister Grace C ?
Remember the jailhouse conversation when she told gz “I drove to the jail parking lot and parked, just to be near you” ? That was one of the earliest of 116 recorded jail calls, at a time when family had been advised not to come visit him in jail to avoid media and curiosity seekers
Their phone conversations were *cringe worthy” with Grace C whispering sweet nothings in gz’s ear as if they were teenage lovers.
Thoughts on this from anyone ??
Ouch, you gave me chills and brought up things I had never thought of. OMG, it makes me ill. Just as ill as when I listened to the conversations between he and Shellie. Both of them being totally submissive to him, in their own way. Something to think about, for sure.
Kindheart,
That suspicion has been gnawing at me for months
Remember how they were isolated as children ? Not allowed to play with other kids, not allowed outside their yard ?
There’s something ugly hiding in the family closet, something dark and evil. Something this “loving and close family of decent ‘mericans” is desperate to keep from being exposed
We have only seen the tip of the dark side, I’m sure. Everything from his cousin accusing him of molestation, lack of education, lies, deceit, family secrets.
We will never know everything. And as a result, we will always question how many others were abused, and hurt. God help them.
My heart goes out to this cousin, W9
Mine too. I hope finding some peace comes to her out of all of this.
His cousin said it was a family member who would never tell, That MIGHT possibly be his sister, no?
@Two sides.
Oh Gawd……..you have a point. This is just to sick for me to deal with anymore. I’m calling it a night. See you soon I hope.
I remember all of that…and yes the inferences were was chilling
What a nasty dirty little B*****D Fogen is! no wonder he wasn’t allowed to play with other neighborhood kids. his parents knew exactly what he was back then and they know what he is now. just looking at that sneaky look on his face makes me want to throw up. the damn murdering pervert.
It is so hard for me to watch the video clips. His smirking face makes me want to slap it. Slap that nasty little smirk right off his face.
LadySC, I don’t think Fogen was kept away from the other kids because his parents realized HE was going to do harm. I think the parents were well aware of how toxic, abusive and emotionally disturbed their whole family was and didn’t care about its effects on others. I think there may be two interlocking reasons why Fogen and at least his brother (Junior) were kept away from others: (a) overcontrol (abusive and incestuous families exert too much control on their members, and especially on the kids); and (b) a false and in fact crazy notion that THEY were superior and shouldn’t “mix” with the riff-raff.
Totally agree with “a” and “b”. More so “b”
@Papa
I know that was hard for you to put that together, but it needed to be done. It took alot for witness 9 to come forward. The death of an unknown young black kid gave her the strength to tell her secret. It still amazes me how his death continues to impact all of us.
Thank you for all that you do.
Blush
It’s not simply Trayvon’s death that impacts us, it’s the attempt at bullying and manipulating and dismissing of his family, the trampling and disrespecting of his fresh corpse (remember how lee spoke of this young, unarmed victim early after his murder, they might as well have pissed on his grave), the hubris and indifference shown towards the concept of justice for a black unarmed murdered child.
I am pretty comfortable saying that Americans don’t like bullies.
Totally agree with your post.
X2
If I recall, people who do these kinds of things are not, generally, thought of as respectable citizens. Wasn’t Gacy an alter boy?
I’m wondering…Did Omara just throw Fogen under the bus or did Fogen willingly agree to take responsibility for the $27,000 owed AIS.
Will Fogen now file for bankrupcy…AND then blame his bankrupcy on the “stick-wielding” mob who sought his arrest, the NNBPs, and NBC who betrayed him as a “racist”.
Fogen and now Omara have mastered the art of “Take No Responsibility”…ever.
It is of course also possible that AIS was on board until they got blamed for not being willing to make up crap about Trayvon Martin out of thin air and claim that they had discovered it. I will bet that Fogen has been trying to get the security guards who “guard” him to go out and “find” dirt that isn’t there. Just as I think he got Jon-6 to talk about the MMA style punches, he probably tried to get some of the guards to trump up stuff about Trayvon. When they realized they better not try that (or, in the alternative, when they behaved within their ethical standards under law, since that is also NOT IMPOSSIBLE), he got rid of them and refused to pay. That’s an educated guess.
I don’t believe for one moment that the funds are zeroed out. O’Mara said, “George does not have any funds presently available to him to attend to any such debt, realizing the enormity of upcoming expenses of the defense and the diminished nature of the defense fund.”
I interpret the use of “funds presently available” to mean he has a specific sum set aside for payment of experts, depositions, etc. that it will take to put on the defense and they are not “available” to put towards security, food, housing, etc. of GZ and encore.
If you add up what it costs – $700 minimum per depo times how many witnesses? $150-400 per hour for expert review/reports; plus $500-1500 per expert for trial testimony? I would guestimate that O’Mara has upwards of $50k set aside for his defense.
The thing is, like everyone here recognizes, by crying poverty, anyone he does try to retain for services will want to be paid up front. Tells me that O’Mara isn’t very good at long term game plans.
@CherokeeNative.
I have asked this question many times. The courts saw to it that both Z, and any funds were being monitored. (And not well, if I may say) Yet, his parents beg for money on the web, who knows how much has been hidden away, or what is being collected, in his name?
I am not a mean person, but I have to ask? Where is all the money coming from for housing, bills, (he has to pay for his monitoring), and all the food to pork him up like the Pillsbury Dough Boy?
Something is very wrong with this picture. I don’t for one minute believe O’Mara will walk away paying all the bills, and getting nothing in return. I hope all of them are investigated, and every single cent is tracked down, so those that provided services get paid.
I believe he is lying as well, considering the earlier altercation of his lies and manipulations
However, it still does not mean he does not owe the AIS because they did provide services that were ordered by the defendant and there was obviously a contract in place, considering they were making payments weekly, until it suddenly stopped
I think you might have MOM pegged in your interpretation. Let’s face it, Fogen and MOM are both liars. Why not cry broke and hopefully the defense fund will get ‘reenergized’ as MOM put it?
If the money were really gone, then why would Fogen need to change fund managers or trustees? Is it so MOM would be able to say, “I don’t know how much money is in the account,” or, “Sorry, you didn’t get a check, it is now managed by a trustee” or, as he texted to Chris from AIS, “Sounds like trustee did not get ck to u”
True, MOM may not be very good at long term game plans, but sounds like it could be part of MOM’s plan to try and get some sympathy funds coming in again for his ‘poor broke’ client?
Depos are way more that $700! triple that and you might have one of the attorneys fees. and an important witness may take all day! But omar and west have gone pro-bono, so they really can’t bill regular costs.
as for experts, i can’t imagine there are too many volunteers that would charge much since they’d have to be unprofessional and desperate for any kind of exposure they’re more likely to donate their services too!
i don’t think that much money is coming in at all.. i think most of the money he got after the arrest was from hannity and his connections, and i think they were promised to gz and omar for doing the show.
what ever money that’s coming in is barely enough to keep gz & sz in chips and dip and laid up in some shitty no tell motel. no more double suites in heaven, no suvs.. they probably pawned omars bullet proof vest gz bought him! he thought he was so big and bad and loaded that he didn’t just want one for himself to have one, he wanted to impress omar pretending he was so concerned of!
The lawyers may be working pro bono, which means not charging for their time, but that does not mean that they will not be charging for their costs. Their costs at this point would include the costs incurred for any investigation, consulting fees charged by experts, court reporters/deposition transcripts, and security.
Regardless if they are working pro bono, they are and will be responsible for paying those costs, assuming there isn’t sufficient money in the account to pay them.
No one is likely to agree to work for them for free and they most likely will insist on being paid up front, given the AIS pending lawsuit.
This situation is looking more and more like a train coming down the tracks heading right toward the defense team.
I wonder if O’Mara set up his own non-public fund to defend gz and is getting private donations from places like the gun lobby.
Agreed, and the court is likely to upset his budgeting plans as well. He has no right to make service providers contribute to his defense plans. Most especially not by dint of fiat!
MOM go back to defending drug dealers who you know are guilty. Charge them big and maybe you can salvage some of the money you are losing on this case….
The entire case is sad.. I hope Trayvon gets justice. GZ is a criminal and MOM may ruin his career for fame and fortune. Not worth it….
@Kindheart101,
I remember it been asked somewhat like this…
paraphrasing a little
GZ: so after we mentored the kids on sundays..
SH: So it has been reported that you and your wife shellie mentor children
GZ:yes
SH:And you have been doing this for a couple of years.
GZ: Well acutually its been like a couple of months or three months
Something like that is how I remember it.
I went to the Fox channel, and the part about him mentoring kids is totally cut out of the video. Its not even in the transcript.
a couple of months before or after the shooting?
@Tzar,
Before.
In was in the Hannity interview. I know I remember that being said by GZ that he only “mentored” for a couple of months. The mentoring program came from his mother in the Bond hearing of being 2 years.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/20/cnr.02.html
But I think the media lumped the two together.
I think what happened was the mother talked about him mentoring but it was in the past. People took it as to mean he was currently still in the program because he supposedly was still doing it because it was shut down and he did it on his own. Which I do not believe.
I think when Hannity started asking how long he had been doing it, it through him for a loop when he answered only a couple of months. He was under the same impression as everyone else.
If “a couple of months” were true, that would have meant that he started after the shooting.
Difficult to say what’s more ludicrous. The couple-of-months claim or the entire mentoring story.
PS: I am sure the DA got the full transcript and video
Good. I hope they do because it has been edited out online.
If this works, here is where GZ talks to Hannity about mentoring and he signed a contract for a year, kids at risk, not being able to fulfill the year, so sad blah, blah blah:
Oops, oh well the link works. Sorry it didn’t embed – but does anyone know who he and She’lLie signed the contract to mentor with?
@Rachael
The Goons???
Mentoring means sharing an interest of the child, such as sports, hiking, museums, chess, reading books, etc. GZ couldn’t pass his own courses, so we can leave anything education out of his purported “mentoring.” Most volunteer programs for mentoring only require several hours once or twice a month — not once a week.
Mentoring is not bringing kids to your house on Sunday evenings just to hang-out and talk. It definitely is not allowed when it’s too dark to go out and do something together of interest.
And, if the child that GZ mentored was almost Trayvon’s age, why didn’t GZ know how to communicate with Trayvon?
GZ is full of bull crap.
Anyway, after reading above – from the sound of this interview, he was mentoring (I mean he states that he and She’lLie were) at the time of the shooting because he said they cannot continue now and it makes him feel bad because these are kids who are at a high risk and not having stability messes them up and they feel bad that they can’t fulfill the contract or something.
@Rachael
Fogen doesn’t specifically say that on that Sunday after he was done mentoring the kids he left to go to Target. He says that on Sundays they go do their weekly grocery shopping after mentoring the kids and so he headed out to Target. He implys it, but doesn’t actually say they did before he headed out. I wonder what place would have you sign a contract to do it for a year….through a church maybe?
Big Brothers/Big Sisters has you contract for a 1-year minimum.
@Rachael
THANK YOU!!
I found one program they mey have used.
http://www.cfdreamcenter.org/youth-programs.php
rachael- You did post the correct video…but did you by chance see who posted that video?? LOL… a regular at the CTH. I would think that they would want to forget that interview took place, yet they upload it to youtube.
Rachael- well the dreamcenter’s mentoring is during the week, so scratch that one. Did you look up the big brothers/sisters site? Wonder if it says mentoring is on Sundays?
He actually does say on the Hannity show that after they mentored the kids he went to get groceries. He comes out and says it.
@ ChrisNY~Laurie
With Big Brothers/Big Sisters, it can be whenever both parties decide it to be.
@ Rachael
I could be that one then since they do any day.
@diary
Thanks for clarifying…I thought he didn’t actually say he mentored that Sunday. I’d like to know where he mentored, for some reason I thought it was at his house, I don’t know what made me think that or if it’s even allowed.
@ChrisNY~Laurie says:
January 29, 2013 at 9:13 pm
“rachael- You did post the correct video…but did you by chance see who posted that video?? LOL… a regular at the CTH. I would think that they would want to forget that interview took place, yet they upload it to youtube.”
You know what is really fascinating about that? Have you ever gone over to the outhouse? Their word for young African American males is “Obama’s son.” They will say things like “here is another Obama’s son doing such and such.” They alternate between thug and Obama’s son.
But if you listen to the interview, even GZ himself says that he thought the president was saying he sees himself in the youth of America, not that he saw Trayvon as a young black male.
Not that I believe GZ would really mean anything that profound, but that IS what he said. I wonder why the outhouse sewage believes all things GZ yet does not seem to follow along with that pearl of wisdom?
Don’t even get me started on them.
@ Xena –
Yes, I know what mentoring means, but in the link I gave to the video, he specifically stated he and She’lLie had a contract with a mentoring program. He also stated it was a program that places males with males, females with females, which is why I thought it might be something like Big Brothers/Big Sisters, as well because they do want a 1-year contract, and they want it for the very reasons GZ stated.
He did not say he was “merely” mentoring children, he did not say that he had kids come to his house on Sunday, but that he had a contract with a program. I want to know what program this is/was.
Of course I don’t really believe he and She’lLie were involved in such a program and won’t until there is some evidence that they were, which is why I want to know.
@ ChrisNY~Laurie
When I googled youth mentoring programs sanford florida, it came back: About 2,700,000 results. Obviously, not all of these are relevant, but the point is, there are lots of mentoring programs out there.
@Rachael
Same here. I still think he’s lying. Additionally, if he felt that strongly about it, why did he abandon his house within hours after killing Trayvon? The man is a liar.
ditto
Rachael, gz’s exact words were that paired “boys with boys and females with females”
they paired (not “that paired”)
I wonder why I have always thought that the kids were at Fogen’s house when being mentored. Hmmm I have no idea where I got that from. LOL
I can see it now, ads for kids needing to be mentored.
“Children at risk:
Come and be part of a killer’s life,
Learn how to be stable (from a guy who fell on his ass after one punch);
Learn how to be dependable (from a guy who won’t tell the police where to meet him when he called THEM);
Learn how to live your life (from a guy who has to have armed guards and changes clothes in a public rest room);
Learn the value of education (from a guy who faked his own graduation party);
Learn how to present yourself to the world (from a guy who got a judge to call him a liar and a potted plant).
Come one, come all. You’ll not see nothing like the mighty Fogen.
Didn’t fogens Mom say that fogen went to the neighbourhood where the kids lived. Didn’t she say she was scared cause it wasn’t a good neighbourhood. She said fogen would do it anyway cause if it weren’t for him, those kids would have nobody.
Yes.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/20/cnr.02.html
2-29-12 Interview Tape 1
ZIMMERMAN: Not really. I have a cousin, uh, that’s in prison, and, um, he wrote me (unintelligible) he’d gotten off so many times as a juvenile, as a (unintelligible) that he wished that, you know, and he said, you know, I, granted I’ve earned what I’ve gotten, but, you know, I wish that there would’ve been someone to talk with along then. And I mentor, uh, these 2 kids and I’ve helped them, and I realized that, no offense…
ZIMMERMAN: And from my cousin and what I learned, what I’m still learning mentoring the kids is, I think the biggest difference, cause I wanted to make a difference. Uh, and the biggest difference you can make, I thought you could make, is showing kids accountability. I thought I could make more of an impact on their lives as a judge than as a police officer.
Robert Sr. on the donate to us website
George and Shellie learned of a program providing mentors to children needing a stable and positive influence in their lives. George and Shellie welcomed this opportunity and become mentors to two African American children, they both were eager to make a difference in the children’s situation. Although George was working full-time and going to school, he made it a priority in his life to do as much for these children as possible. When I met these two young children I did not know who they were, I asked where they knew George from. They replied ‘he’s our mentor’. I was unsure what these two young people meant by the word ‘mentor’ so I asked them what that was. Their reply was that “George takes us places, helps us with things, and teaches us to do the right things. We really love George”. George also assisted their mother as much as possible with any repairs or help that may be needed around their house. Unfortunately, the mentoring program ended. However, George and Shellie continued their activities on their own. When George’s mother ask why he had to travel to such a dangerous area to mentor children, George’s reply was ‘Mom, I really love these kids and if I don’t go, they won’t have anyone”. To this day, George is very saddened that he will most likely never see these children again.
Hannity Program:
ZIMMERMAN: I was going to Target to do my weekly grocery shopping. Sunday nights was the only nights — well, Sunday after we mentored the kids, we would always go grocery shopping and do our cooking for the week. So I wanted to go to Target and I headed out. And that’s the last time I’ve been home.
Dr. Phil Show
Osterman: he and I have talked about that and that was a–that was one of the topics that he–he
had gotten into a place in his life to where he said, ‘You know what, I just–I don’t why–I don’t–I don’t
want to frequent like on Friday nights or Saturday nights going out to clubs with my friends and such
and I don’t wish to do all this anymore.’ He stopped doing these things and his life changed completely.
He started saving money, he started doing–and with that money him and Shelly have done nothing but
mentor inner-city youth and be the big brother and big sister of those people.
What a load of MANURE!
Any kid left alone or around Fogenhats is automatically at risk of danger from Fogenhats, so him stating kids are at risk is not a lie, however him mentoring kids is lie I think
Jun….
Notice in this interview he mentioned “HIM” that he mentored ….not “THEY”
@lady
Thanks for posting all that. mrs. z is full of crap
Exactly what I would expect from FOX Snooze.
Bet they wished they could cut the entire video and get away with saying, “Video, what video?”
Professor go to this link and under the big video are three smaller ones…click the middle video, it’s in there.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/03/newly-released-photo-shows-bloodied-george-zimmerman-from-night-trayvon-martin/
The video is in the link I posted above.
@Leatherman,
I knew I wasn’t crazy! I am so glad Rachael found it.
@ Profressor
I posted the transcripts from the 2-29 Interview tape 1, Robert Sr. on begging site, Hannity interview and Osterman’s interview with Dr, Phil on the post above.
Thank you.
It’s in the part 1 of the Hannity material that didn’t get aired. You might be looking at the aired part of the interview.
I listened to it yesterday from the 1/28 thread at the Treestump. What immediately came to my mind was Big Brothers / Big Sisters, since Fogen mentioned a brother and a sister and how the organization they were mentoring for matched female to female and male to male. However, there are all sorts of mentoriing programs around, from church-run to city run, to private, so it’s hard to say. BBBS just came to mind because my two youngest kids had mentors through BBBS for awhile.
It is on the link I posted.
The AP reports Sanford’s city manager today (Tuesday) offered Lee’s old police chief job to the deputy police chief in Elgin, Ill. Sanford city honchos apparently are now waiting to see if Cecil Smith, an African American, accepts the offer, with its $110, 000 annual salary. Don’t know much about his background or how things are in Elgin, but Sanford and defendants like Fogen or defense lawyers like O’Mara would bring Mr. Smith a boatload of new experiences in crime, corruption, ineptitude and slime.
That salary seems low for a police chief.
What’s up with that?
The city of Sanford like most racists believe that if they put a black face in charge that it means that they are not racist.
Maybe the salary offer is low because they want the Smith to reject it but they can still say that they offered it to a black.
It’s all smoke and mirrors.
Yep, bet you’re right.
Sounds like a prize winner to me!
Lee was not making more…It is a small city in the South.
Yes, that is true too.
$8,000 more that what Lee was making, professor.
In much of the South, both costs of living and salaries are relatively low. I don’t know if that is true of central Florida.
Probably because Sanford took a very big hit in the property values tax base. Just looking at RATL where properties lost more than half their value. Great retirement for the NASCAR crowd. Me, I prefer to be closer to nightlife and beaches.
Lonnie…..I’m a NASCAR fan……the hell with beaches and nightlife…….I prefer the solitude & nature here on my mountain ….. 🙂
I’m talking about the “active” fan who wants to be in the stands every day. As far as beaches and night life, I don’t want to be living in the middle of it either, I prefer a secluded hideaway from which to emerge and prowl. LOL.
Then you would enjoy my mountain here…..Even though I have neighbors within a quarter mile either way….it’s still secluded….And Pike National forest a mile and a half up the road…We’re on the west slope of the mountain…..with views of 30 miles or more….and sunsets? unbelievable….And I can walk around the place at night and not see one artificial light.
Nightlife? Sittin’ around the firepit with a bottle of Canadian whiskey, a good cigar, my woman & my dog 🙂
@MMP
beautiful……
Some background on Cecil Smith.
http://couriernews.suntimes.com/17881308-417/elgins-cecil-smith-offered-police-chief-job-in-trayvon-martins-city.html
Elgin is a small town best known locally for its river boat casinos.
It sounds about right the offer IMO. Generally law enforcement does not get paid very well. I remember a cop talking to me when I was a teenager to become a police officer and the starting is about 24K annual. The chief getting $110,000 annual is fairly good, probably not the best but its about within range
The tips can be pretty good though.
Dave……and so can all the doughnuts and coffee they can chug down.
MOM has been playing this case out in the media, this problem will not help him or FOGON! I find it amusing that MOM would even let it come this far, it will do more damage to his own crediability than he can even imagine…. MOM and FOGON are in deep trouble, and odds are neither on of them knows it yet….
Been awhile. Nice to see your fonts again.
why can’t I see his fonts?
Professor Leatherman, I’ve been reading and following, but not commenting. You have done a great job of keeping this case in our minds, and it would be difficult to find anyone more open and honest in their opinions about this case than you.
I did take time to read the papers filed on the lawsuit againt MOM and his client, and it makes all the papers filed by MOM and his aids look like something a high school law student would write. Perhaps after this suit is settled MOM should consider hiring the other attorney to do his paperwork….
@ Tzar
“why can’t I see his fonts?”
Hmmmm, I think I know. Those fonts are expensive, quite exorbitant.
Following …
Hello everyone! Following after homework.
Follow
Hey MOM! What happened to all that tree house generated material? Don’t tell me that none of it turned out to be of any use? All that work they did over there, to discover the truth about “lean”, won’t be submitted in court? C’mon O’Mara, don’t tell us that those bus driver beating videos won’t be used?
Well, cheer up, you still have your “undisputed likely broken nose” to crow about. You’ve also got a great line up of witnesses for the defense, let’s see, Frank Taaffe, if you can catch him when he’s not on a bender. Mark Osterman, but I wouldn’t trust him, he seems more interested in sinking GZ than saving him. Oh yes, Joe Oliver, GZ’s massive crowd of one single black friend. Damn, I’d better cut this short, it’s beginning to sound like Alice in Wonderland.
Hey, maybe you can arrange kickbacks with those experts you hire? That way you can get some money out of this deal eh? Well, it’s got to beat hell out of doing tax work or selling used cars. Keep listening to your toxic client and you’ll be washing dishes in no time at all.
😆 x100
@Lonnie Starr
Uh — he sent investigators out to see if it could be confirmed. It wasn’t confirmed, and now the investigators are suing him for that along with their security services. Serves him right, because none of it is relevant to GZ’s defense — unless the law changes to allow people to kill strangers and then dig up dirt justifying that they deserved to die.
Xena, maybe I am blind, but I do not see any investigation rates on the bills. The story with the daughter of a client was chitchat to keep the costumer satisfied, it feels.
@leander22. The charges for investigation are there beginning on pg 47, and reads “Mileage charged during the course of an authorized investigation.”
It sounded absurd to me, after all, they could get anyone to say that TM agreed to sell them drugs, that would mean little since they could not get him to do it now, could they? So, the investigators were just putting the absurdity of the defenses requests back in their face.
Put it this way, if you have a security/investigative agency/co., and your client asks you go dig up dirt on Cock Robin, do you bill them 60 or 150 dollars per hour and just go do it? Or, are you obligated to inform them of just how fruitless their request is? Because, my guess is, if you simply went to work on a silly request, then went to court to get payment, you’d probably lose!
@Prof
here is the complaint , I don’t have the answer to the complaint from O’Mara …. working on it…..
Click to access complaintfilestamped-complaint-file-stamped.pdf
I just noticed the complaint say, “Jury Trial Demanded”
Yep!
It’s customary to demand a jury trial in the complaint because a plaintiff will be deemed to have waived a jury trial, if they do not demand it within a certain period of time that varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Rather than risk forgetting to file by the deadline, it’s easier to demand a jury trial in the complaint.
I don’t think many civil lawyers ever plan on going to trial. The vast majority of cases settle before trial, sometimes literally on the courthouse steps on the way to start picking a jury.
If you want to be a trial lawyer, you have to be a prosecutor or a criminal defense lawyer.
OM needs to settle and make this go away. Just saying.
Professor.
I was involved in a very bad accident several years ago that left me disabled, and a lot to deal with as far as insurance companies. I retained an attorney that handled everything for me, as I was unable to appear regularly in court, etc. Our agreement was: He would pay everything, up front. This included depositions, court fees, and everything other than medical bills, which the insurance company paid. He told me he knew there would be a settlement, and felt the courts would insist on them paying for my surgeries, and any subsequent medical care needed because of the spinal injury. But, he also told me. If the courts did not order a settlement, what he had paid for toward my case was his responsibility, not mine.
I see O’Mara as feeling the same way? He felt the gold mine would render payment, back to him, for anything he paid for, or ordered. (i.e. security services) He felt the money would continue to roll in, and he could cipher off what he had approved, or pre-paid for.
In my case, my attorney was wonderful. I did get a settlement, not huge, but enough to cover all of his out of pocket costs. Had that not happened, they were his responsibility. Isn’t O’Mara in the same position?
@kindheart101
That’s O’Mara’s problem — he didn’t put in his agreement with GZ that he would represent him on matters beyond the scope of the 2nd degree murder case.
GZ wanted another bond hearing. O’Mara needed to convince the court that GZ would not take money donated to him and flee. What O’Mara should have done was tell GZ to get another attorney to setup a Trust with a Trustee, or stay in jail.
True, but………..in representing him, if he pays for, or authorizes something, my attorney told me it is their responsibility if their client can not pay for it. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh I hope so!!! I hope it winds up being a BIG O’Mara problem.
It is his responsibility.
Yes.
🙂 Thank you
>^..^< So…. does AIS have a solid case or what?
I believe AIS does, since about 40K has been paid to them…
It wasn’t until the money started to run out, that MOM/Fogen had a problem with paying, so, imo, by paying that first invoice, they agreed to the charges incurred and the agreement.
Does anyone think Fogen has a chance to win the NBC lawsuit?
Professor, what do you think?
I do not believe the fogen has any chance to win the lawsuit. I think it’s a ridiculous lawsuit.
I think they will win the principle but not the interest and late fees. There is nothing agreed to or even discussed about those in the paperwork attached to the lawsuit.
oral contract or no seems like staute of frauds might apply for anything over 5 grand also have to wonder about fraud on behal of zimmerman being a factor , everything in this case smells of lies and deceit
So Zimmerman sues NBC, AIS sues Zimmerman, if his lawsuit against NBC is won, he will have to pay AIS, and probably get sued by the Martins for wrongful death and I hope they get all the money he has left and any future money he may abtain. Karma is a b@@ch!!
I agree with you totally Erica. Karma can be your best friend, or worst enemy.
I dont think he will win his lawsuit, considering all the claims he has made, and he’d have to prove it, and I would say most jurors are not Zimmernuts or Conservative Treeforters, against NBC
Why do you think Fogenhats submitted a doctored tape to the court?
Yes NBC may have edited the footage, but the content was the same, in that all of Fogenhats’ statements are intact
With or without the minor edit that NBC did, Fogenhats still went after a black teenager, called him up to no good and suspicious, based on his own prejudices and that the kid was walking around looking about by the clubhouse, and then he stalked him, called him an asshole, and a bloodclot punk/coon, and said shit he’s running, and then Fogenhats began chasing the kid with a gun…
People theorizing Fogenhats being racist based on the phone call and the actions that transpired from him that night, is really not off base at all
COON is the only word he said. The word punk never left his mouth.
This is my first post, I’ve been lurking for quite some time now, I just love reading this blog, the Professor’s informative posts, and all the comments. A BIG thank you to the Professor!
What I had read, was that MOM hired AIS on behalf of Fogen, to retain the “attorney/client” privilege; which then opened him up to the liability of any costs incurred with that contract, (even if it was an oral contract), since he was the one who made the agreement.
Too bad for MOM, I can’t help but laugh as he should have known better than to trust anyone with the likes of Fogen. As the Professor said, I doubt he thought the $$$ would stop flowing…
Too bad, so sad, imo!
I think I might have felt a little bad for MOM had he shown a little more decency with this case, but after many of his unprofessional comments (i.e.”handlers”), I have no sympathy for him at all.
Welcome to the blog.
I don’t have any sympathy for him either.
Thank you Professor!
Another point I would like to make is in regards to a letter MOM wrote in response to the AIS lawsuit dated September 10, 2012.
MOM writes,
“please understand that George objects to any addition of such matters as finance charges without his PRIOR APPROVAL”
Say what??
What world does Fogen live in? If you don’t pay a bill, most companies add finance charges, ya dummy, oh and by the way,
they do it without ‘your prior approval!’ What an idiot!
yeah that is my favorite part!
As IF gz says he doesn’t want to pay for the interest!!! hello bill collector guy. didn’t you get the memo??
LMAO!!
Omar needs to stay away or he’s gonna catch the same stupid gz and his whole family have!
I dont know about that. When I have taken out a loan, for instance, it is the law that the institution indicate the interest rate and late payment fees, etc.
Same holds true for credit cards.
I think a contract for services (dentist, for example) would have interest and late fees incorporated in the contract advising the person signing of all fees to provide the service.
Either you approve of the fees or you don’t sign.
I think this is where MOM is going with that.
No written contract and no communication regarding late fees or interest.
A verbal contract was in place by way of MOM paying the 40K.
As to whether or not MOM owes the interest & penalties is a different story.
If noting else Mom & fogen are still on the hook for the 27K, PRIOR to interest & penalties.
That is the way I am thinking.
I would think that AIS an get the court to award late charges because the services were labor. With labor, employers match SS and Medicare. I’m not sure about Florida, but most states also have a tax that is deposited with the state for unemployment insurance. I would hate to see what their workman’s comp rate is, but that another employer expense.
So when a service company that provides labor is not paid, not only are they out of the wages paid to employees, but they have been stiffed for employer costs too.
Xena……When I had my last business my labor cost above actual wages (Matching Social Security, work mans comp. contributions to unemployment etc. came out to about 23%…
So someone I was paying $15.00 an hour to, my actual labor cost for that person was appx. $18.35 per hour ($15.00 x 23%)
@Pat.
Yep. That’s why I believe that if AIS argues their complaint from the standing of being an employer providing labor and having government obligations attached to that labor, the court will grant them late charges.
It’s all in the fine print on the bottom of the contract! i read it.
and of course it would make sense to charge interest on a breached contract.
it said interest and fees and etc would be included in the case of nonpayment… you know the regular stuff…
In rereading the complaint, there was constant communication about invoices, approved invoices, and terms of the contract, as well as understood approval of the operational plan.
I would say once an invoice is authorized and paid for services rendered and a retainer given for services, it goes far and above a “verbal agreement”.
Yes, that’s exactly how I read the story. If I were AIS I would consider this a strong case. I of course do not know the US bankruptcy laws. The way I see GZ that would be a big no no, he expects he can slighter from that too. O’Mara is a lawyer after all, thus he must be able to make these bills go away and stop AIS from bothering him. 😉
I would be enormously pleased if someone can post the link for the hearing on Trayvon’s birthday in advance. Will the high profile lawyers that are involved in this special case be there too? Will we see a representative of NBC?
Jeralyn Merrit collected all the evidence for the good chances of GZ in that case.
Obviously that would be the most elegant solution from the Team Fogen perspective.,,
IANL, but this case against NBC doesn’t seem a very good defense strategy to me.
I went to the link you provided, leander22, and something caught my attention big time: is it true that the Beasley Law Firm is handling GZs suit against NBC? Why would they do that? Obviously it must be on a contingency basis, since GZ et all are both morally and financially bankrupt. So what does the Beasly Lawy Firm hope to gain by taking this case? Anybody? Professor? Lonnie? Xena? Malisha? Mousketeer Roll Call!
They’re getting several millions of dollars worth of name recognition advertising. This is a civil case, nothing to do with the murder case. So, win, lose or draw, they walk away with a much higher profile.
Beasley thinks he will win I guess
Although I do not believe he has a chance
All Beasley sees is a billion dollar company to scam
What more is new?
Greed just blinds people at time where they are not thinking things through
I think the NBC suit will get dismissed on the grounds professor stated, and I personally believe it is a frivolous suit, and it involves facts surrounding his murder 2 indictment, so it will get thrown out on summary IMO
Jun~ thanks for the reply! I also think it’s a frivolous suit, but WHY would another lawyer, with a rather well established reputation, allow themselves to get sucked into the GZ Vortex of Failure? I guess that amount of greed doesn’t make sense to me. I like a sure thing!
One never knows why particular attorneys take particular cases. Beasley might be doing someone a favor (could be anyone from the O’Mara camp, from the Fogen camp, from some miscellaneous cops’ camp, from Wolfinger’s or Lee’s or Mahaney’s or anybody’s camp, or he could be very sympathetic to poor Fogen for reasons of his own, such as, gee, I dunno, maybe he just thinks heck, the boy is just like me? Or something?) or he could just be trying to put his name out there on a document people will read, without paying for advertising space.
West is connected to PA where the Beasley firm is located.
Costs will be incurred with that lawsuit and someone is going to have to pay them. So far, the costs consist of the filing fee and service of process fees.
The Beasley firm probably advanced those costs with the expectation that they will recoup them out of a settlement or the fund, but with the lawsuit looking pretty shaky and the fund possibly running dry . . .
I’m thinking they may be rethinking their commitment to this puppy.
Thanks, Professor, I do hope you are correct. Obviously it is deeply connected to the core argument we had from the start. Without media there would have been no prosecution, so in a way ABC is the scapegoat for a much broader interest raised by protest against no arrest.
I wonder in hindsight if the race issue could have been handled more carefully, or if so it would have disarmed Team Fogen of one of their core arguments. Could it have been based more on profiling, which obviously was the case?. But I am afraid that would lead into argumentative circles, since black crime would have been the core argument of the opposite site anyway.
I have to admit that this part of our larger story interests me highly. Since I can understand the editors, obviously Fogen knew before that Trayvon was black or assumed it, otherwise he would not have followed him. Just as his: And he is a black male is almost triumphant. “They” always get away.
I hope O’Mara takes the fall for this. This case is only going to cost him money and his reputation.
I work in a technical field and email authorizations of contracted terms are common to start time sensitive engagements (as this obviously was).
Is it a defense to advise the vendor in August (after services were rendered) that they are broke and cannot pay? If that was the case, there would be many forgiven from debt and businesses now bankrupt.
I think I read in the original filing that they had email communication from an authorized individual at O’Mara’s office confirming their engagement.
This seems far more than a loose “verbal agreement”.
I do not think the GZ and MOM camp have a leg to stand on.
I think you are probably right, so long as AIS didn’t unilaterally start providing additional services to run-up the bill after being notified about financial difficulty. Cannot imagine they would do that because it would be really stupid. I don’t believe O’Mara claimed they did that. So, yes. I think O’Mara is going to have to get out his checkbook.
The fogen is incredibly toxic to everyone with whom he comes in contact.
He’s like a black hole and O’Mara just got sucked past the event horizon.
In the complaint, they started that all changes to contracts were approved by MOM himself or an authorized member of his office. When MOM spoke to them on August 23rd about the account being low, they were frustrated with payment by then (which I assume was what initiated the conversation) and they filed a statement with O’Mara’s office for prejudgment interest. MOM then advised them in September (as they tried to collect), he was not the authorized party (after approving invoices for months).
In the vendor world of my industry, this would be a “no brainier” judgement.
I have a PDF of the original complaint if there is a way to attach it?
“The fogen is incredibly toxic to everyone with whom he comes in contact.
He’s like a black hole and O’Mara just got sucked past the event horizon.”
A very apt analogy, Professor. It does appear that anyone who has any contact with fogen, comes away the worse for it.
Typhoid Fogen
Hannity picked the one thing he believed to be so innocuous, the mentoring, that he believed he couldn’t be caught out on it, no way, no how, safe at home… Only to discover to his chagrin, he got himself hammered for trusting GZ. There seems to be nothing GZ says that does not later prove to be untrue.
One has to wonder if he would have poisoned Barbra Walters waters. Perhaps she’s breathing a sigh of relief that she didn’t involve herself with him. Because if you believe any thing that he says, give him the slightest benefit of doubt, you’ll find yourself paying a steep price for it. He’s just that toxic.
From the looks of it AIS tried to scale things back early on saying that xyz was excessive, but you know fogen, only the very BEST for him and SheLie.
I can just imagine his rage as all attempts to breath new life into his fund failed – Barbra giving him the dust off, Hannity doing little, etc etc.
OMara has completely lost control of this train-wreck. He’s let Fogen’s greed become his own and lost sight of what his actual job and duty is.
Professor Fred,
I alway though the inane double bodyguarding of Shellie every time she went out was not to protect her, but to prevent her from bolting.
Maybe right into Bernie de la Rionda’s embrace (with cassette recorder).
Why should she have to stick around and face the music created by Diva George?
The defense team certainly hasn’t succeeded in dragging her into the courtroom for GZ’s appearances.
Of course, if they did forcibly move her, that would be kidnaping.
So we have no way of knowing how supportive Shellie is of GZ at this time.
But “He ain’t heavy, he’s my lover” is not likely to be warbled in their rent-a-casita these days.
I keep waiting to hear that she’s going to be a witness for the prosecution.
Could be wrong, but I think it’s going to happen.
He is heavy… He’s a larder!
At 306 lbs…..he’s growing his own organic body armor.
Do they sell blubber piercing rounds in 9MM?
a little better
I agree that it seems a rather weak defense to use some vague Blackberry communication about the trustee and GZ clamping down on the fund. That’s a funny way to put it anyway. Besides if you have no more money you simply end the contract and do not expect the firm to work for you anymore. Frederick seems to right they expected the money to flow again. if it had, after their last PR, we wouldn’t be hearing of this I guess.
Also interesting idea to combine this with the law suit as some type of evidence what high security need GZ had as a result. 😉 Maybe Fogen considered it as some kind of investment in the millions he would get later? 😉
KA
Not quite, but she approved earlier bills for O’Mara. And yes, this proves there was no disagreement concerning terms.
this is the note O’Mara sent on, August 22, 2012 12:17 PM, hilarious Fogen is concerned about the bills. Strictly that is a simple calculation since they were aware of earlier bills.
A note on Jul 20, 2012 went like this, I find to protect us funny, quite obviously the protection may not work. But O’Mara may try to use this as evidence that AIS knew the trustee and Fogen were more in charge of the money then he himself.
Subject: At dinner … Great.
In any case he hired them and let it happen, or allowed the bills to add up.
Is that a typo:
Those folks shouldn’t expect any parents anytime soon at all, frankly. Fogen’s parents are off putting up their own beggars’ webpages, Shellie’s parents are in trouble with the law and could never make ends meet, and O’Mara’s parents are in hiding because they’re embarrassed.
Oh, and they shouldn’t expect any payments, either.
Malisha, I thought they closed down the website. I have never heard about O’Mara’s parents being in hiding too. But yes, that context puzzles me.
But no, you are correct they haven’t taken down their site. But, the last message is from Nov. 22, Thanksgiving wishes. Wouldn’t you expect more activity if support money flowed more lavishly? Only three updates between July and November. Strictly he could use private communications with his donors, but I think the questions touched in these communications could be used for general updates too. I doubt it would harm the private communications in fact honor them. There special issues were taken more seriously.
Seems Robert Zimmerman triggered the petition. Which in turn triggered the response of our camp. … At least he was involved in the idea quite a bit before it was launched.
What means “although we never will feel truly safe and secure secure (never ever again?). Sounds peculiar although he does not state it directly. If that wasn’t his intend he could have used the present. Odd, due to what? Black American hate? I have heard that one before from a supporter with a military background.
Yes, there are crazies out there, but is the fear for their security and live not somehow hyped? In fact perfectly mirrors Fogen’s position? ….
Everyone involved on Trayvon’s side has a financial interests, is interesting. Projection? I do not really buy media’s financial interests either. If there was no demand for information no “financial interests” could be based on reporting of the case. That is very simple fact.
Sorry, babbling again and using up much too much space. 😉
Malisha concerning typo, and I am not sure if I understand what you mean. I was puzzled about the “us” myself (To protect us). Considering O’Mara’s polished friendly average guy surface it could mean the “us” goes both ways. Protecting AIS and protecting himself. What I am not sure about is, if O’Mara put in the dots himself or if there was more. But concerning it is a text message I doubt it contained more. And it makes sense as suggesting let’s talk about that later on the phone. Which could mean he can use it as evidence he talked about it more deeply later in a phone call.
What do you mean by typo?
Now that’s definitively a typo:
. There issues, interests should mean of course “their” interests concerns etc.
When I lived in London I was puzzled by this type of error.
Leander, I’m almost certain that when O’Mara said AIS could not expect any “parents soon” he meant they should not expect any “payments soon.” I have noticed typographical and grammatical errors in ALL O’Mara’s stuff. Either he can’t keep a secretary there or they all just write anything at all and forget to proofread.
I think MOM has a practice of hiring his legal secretaries away from Target or WalMart checkout counters.
well he also did pay the 15K retainer to AIS and even paid the agreed fees for a time after the retainer ran out.
then when it was time to pay again Omar texted AIS that there would a check ready to pick up on a Monday, but it never was.
so there’s a pattern of regular payments up until a time and then Omar promised the last one by text that AIS can prove!
who does oral contract with attorneys? who?
obviously I suspect shenanigans of the money hiding variety
And what attorney doesn’t get everything in writing? I agtee. Something is very suspicious or someone is very stupid .
He did get things in writing, O’Mara just put off signing the contract until the money ran out…they have approval for operations plans and other contract agreements and a date/time/place they needed to be for it. They had constant approved amendments and additional services that his office approved, but thought approved, never signed the main agreement.
This is really dirty dealings by the O’Mara firm. Good luck getting other area vendors to work for you.
@Rachael
I can hear/see it now. AIS wanted a signed contract. O’Mara is thinking HEY! I’m not personally responsible for GZ. My agreement with him is to defend him in the 2d degree murder case. I only took over control of the Paypal account to get him another bail! Let GZ sign the contract.”
And GZ says, “Hey! I don’t have control over my Paypal account. Mark took it over, so let him sign the contract.”
Maybe they should add Peter Pan as a defendant.
@Professor.
HA!! LOL!
I think it is O’Mara’s duty to pay up. Fogen could not even touch a bank account so he can’t possibly be the one paying them. Since O’Mara hired the security on behalf of Fogen, it is all on him.
I am almost positive O’Mara will withdraw as council and try every conceivable method to weasel his way out of paying for Fogen’s security. If he can’t even pay experts, then he surely can’t provide an adequate defense.
I say Osterman should pay the 27k. If he’s friend enough to die for fogen, then he should be friend enough to fork over the scratch for fogen. We sure know that RZJ won’t contribute a dime. He’s a taker, not a giver. Loved how a guy who would do or say anything in order to get his make-up laden face in front of any camera, suddenly became completely unavailable for court by phone or in person. He was willing to spoon feed his lil bro, and change his diapers,…. but lie for him? Nah,…. that’s what gullible wives are for.
@looolooo
Yep. He can take a bullet for his old pal, let him fork over the cash.
My vote is for Osterman too.
X2
who uses the word shenanigans? I thought that word was only used in kids fiction books:)
I like the word, and I like the way it sounds..which makes it very appropriate for this situation….besides, the defense team is acting like a bunch of bratty kids anyway….. 😆
My Mom used to use that term on me…..Also there were these little damn birds that kept watch on me and told her everything I did 😦
I especially like “shenanigans are afoot”
I like that word “shenanigans”.
Did you know that a gathering of baboons is called: a congress of baboons? Now, mash that up with shenanigans and there’s big fun afoot.
🙂
The one I like is a group of crows; they’re called a Murder of Crows, although I’m not sure why folks maligned such smart birds like that…
Peter Pan? Or Tinker Bell … whoops, for Fogen, make that Stinker Bell.
Love that word, shenanigans! Also, cockamamie and stumblebum.
Baboonanigans.
Bamboozaligans.
Fogen Bogen Bo Bogen
Banana Fana Fo Fogen
Mee My Mo Mogan, Fogan!
Gorilla Billa Bo Lee
Banana Fanna Fo-Fee
Mee My Mo Mee, Billy.
Wolfi Bolfi Bo Barf
Banana Fana Fo Farf
Mee My Mo Molfi, Giv’em Finger Wolfinger!
malisha~ FANTASTIC! Love that crazy song! Your lyrics brings it back to life!
AIS had an oral contract in place and it was all fine and dandy in the beginning and they were getting their weekly payment, until it suddenly stopped
Considering they were getting weekly payments, that is as solid as a written contract, plus my guess is they have written emails and texts to prove their solidified contract in place
I also suspect they are hiding money considering the change in trustees and their smoke and mirrors who to blame for the non payment but as typical Fogen fashion, they are putting it on the trustee, ie someone else
Yep. There is something fishy about this whole thing. I too believe money is being hidden and this lawsuit has perfect timing.
agreed
O’Mara has lost it. He can’t really think he can hide behind the paperwork not being signed when there is proof that AIS made good faith efforts to have the paperwork signed(and get paid), but that O’Mara was constantly putting them off. This guy needs to wake up before he looses what credibility he has left.
Yeah, he should have had Zimmerman call the company and ask for their services. O’Mara did it on his client’s behalf. That puts him right in the middle.
He hired the firm and agreed to the terms of the contract.
In that type of situation, the service provider looks to the lawyer to pay the fee, if the client does not. I often hired investigators and expert witnesses to work on my client’s cases. They sent me the bill and I paid them passing the costs along to my client, if retained, and the court, if appointed.
I never got stuck with the bill, but O’Mara now appears to be in that situation.
It’s especially interesting that he would hire the company to begin with if he felt the charges were excessive. It’s easy enough to shop around. Like everything that OM and Fogen touch, this smells fishy – and /or just plain dumb!
The timing questions O’Mara’s decision for hiring the security firm. When GZ was first out on bond, he apparently did not have any personal security and it was after the million dollar bond that ordered him not to leave Seminole County that GZ felt he needed 24/7 security.
That doesn’t make sense. If he believes that he can be recognized and harmed, that recognition and harm is not geographically limited to Seminole County.
Effectively, the lawsuit reveals two competing motivations. There is GZ who wants what he wants without regard of the cost, and O’Mara who needs to pay costs for GZ’s defense.
GZ’s greed and irresponsibility is O’Mara’s ditch that is getting deeper by the minute.
?, if forgen goes back to jail will that free up his funds to pay his debts.
Why didn’t MOM take some $ from fund for retainer to pay for services. I don’t understand…some shenanigans going on here.
Professor…..I know that this has been addressed before but the answer wasn’t clear to me, does fogen owe taxes on the money that was donated?….especially since he spent some of it on personal use and not for his defense. Is money spent on his defense tax deductible? (Casey Anthony owes quite a bit of money and since she hasn’t had a job, I would think that the taxes she owes is on the money that was donated to her by her supporters.)
When I looked at this issue way back in May or June, I decided the money contributed was a nontaxable gift. Tax law, however, was not my specialty.
I like racerrodig’s explanation;
Panhandling proceeds are taxable whether the panhandler stands near a freeway ramp or at a computer. That means the fogen’s cash haul resulted from direct solicitation efforts (internet panhandling) and do not qualify as gifts (made without inducement)from the public at large who responded to his asking them to send money for his use in paying his living and legal expenses) Remember the old tv program “Queen for a Day”? Those gifts were taxed
Guess we’ll just have to wait and see, eh ?
The gift tax is governed by Chapter 12, Subtitle B of the Internal Revenue Code. The tax is imposed by section 2501 of the Code. For the purposes of taxable income, courts have defined a “gift” as the proceeds from a “detached and disinterested generosity.
There are two levels of exemption from the gift tax. First, gifts of up to the annual exclusion ($13,000 per recipient in 2009-2012) incur no tax or filing requirement.
What is considered a gift?
Any transfer to an individual, either directly or indirectly, where full consideration (measured in money or money’s worth) is not received in return.
Who pays the gift tax?
The donor is generally responsible for paying the gift tax. Under special arrangements the donee may agree to pay the tax instead.
We know fogen won’t offer to pay anything.
lady2soothe, I looked into this a while back. If I remember correctly the gift tax applies to the sponsor if he gives beyond that limit, it does not apply to the recipient. In any case these donations are not tax deductible. This may be since you could possibly try to avoid taxes or diminish taxes with gifts, beyond legally supported fields to diminish your tax, e.g. by supporting the studies of your children, or medical expenses.
I think the reason why real estate and shares surface so prominently in the laws is that it may be used as a loophole to diminish taxes. I think the rate of 13,000$ reflects the these may be average transfers e.g. to family members or friends beyond the usual deductible or tax exempt expenses. Assuming education and medical services may well move beyond that limit and do in fact reduce your income tax.
I heard over here that American tax law is much more simple than our complicated tax laws. I do not have the impression on first side looking into this issue. But I was never confronted with gifts either. So I actually don’t know how this would be handled over here. But I am assuming they don’t diminish your taxes outside rigidly defined fields concerning the cause of donations.
In any case, I don’t think Fogen is liable for taxes due to the gifts given to him. As always i may be wrong.
Tax laws in the states are insane….there’s even a form to fill out for profits from illegal activity…..In other words just say prostitutes would be required to fill out this form to show their income…….
I wonder if condoms are a legitimate business expense?
If the IRS owes you money you can only go back 3 years to collect what’s owed…..If YOU owe them?………….It lasts forever….
@ leander22 (sorry this is so long) Yes, you’re correct.
Publication 525 from the U.S. Internal Revenue Service, “Taxable and Non-Taxable Income,” states that money received as a gift “is not included in your income. Recipients never pay taxes on a gift. Gift tax is usually paid by the giver of the gift. The person who receives the gift will not have to pay any federal gift tax or estate tax and will not have to pay income tax on the value of the gift or inheritance received:” However if the *gift* generates income, then it is taxable i.e. cert of deposit, stocks, bonds, businesses etc.
Now in fogen’s case, because he/they are not a non-profit organization, what you and I call a gift and what the IRS defines as a gift may be different.
The bank is required to file what’s called a Cash Transaction Report (CTR) for any customer who deposits or withdraws more than $10,000 in cash per day. They’re also required to report suspicions of “structuring” where it appears the customer is making cash transactions over a series of days or at multiple branches to avoid the $10,000 trigger.
Cash transactions over $10,000 must be reported to the Treasury Department. This requirement doesn’t have anything to do with tax collection.
These documents are meant to leave a verifiable paper trail should prosecutors someday feel the need to examine your financial transactions. They’re meant to help prevent money laundering, tax evasion and the like. There is nothing illegal, in and of itself, with making large cash transactions.
When a transaction involving more than $10,000 in cash is processed, most banks have a system that automatically creates a CTR electronically. Tax and other information about the customer is usually pre-filled by the bank software. CTRs since 1996 include an optional checkbox at the top if the bank employee believes the transaction to be suspicious or fraudulent, commonly called a SAR, or Suspicious Activity Report. A customer is not directly told about the $10,000 threshold unless they initiate the inquiry. A customer may decline to continue the transaction upon being informed about the CTR, but this would require the bank employee to file a SAR. Once a customer presents or asks to withdraw more than $10,000 in currency, the decision to continue the transaction must continue as originally requested and may not be reduced to avoid the filing of a CTR. For instance, if a customer reneges on their initial request to deposit or withdraw more than $10,000 in cash, and instead requests the same transaction for $9,999, the bank employee should deny such a request and continue the transaction as originally requested by filing a CTR. This sort of attempt is known as structuring, and is punishable by federal law against both the customer and the bank employee. Informed individuals who structure their transactions at an amount near, but not over $10,000 could have their accounts closely monitored by tellers and bank staff to see if a pattern emerges that could warrant the filing of a SAR.
The multitude of withdrawals and money transfers the Z’s conducted were obviously meant to deflect (so what else is new with them) as being seen as money laundering or the verifiable paper trail should prosecutors someday feel the need to examine their financial transactions but what they failed to take into account was/is not necessarily a daily transfer but multiple transfers within a short period of time.
In view of the AIS lawsuit, where O’Mara AND/OR his client AND/OR his client’s wife could be liable for $27K, aren’t there conflict of interest concerns deveoping, as well?
That is a very good question. I believe there is potential for a conflict. The situation bears watching.
WOW!
That is a good point. should not the contract had been written between the fogen and shelly?
Hmm, that’s quite a dilemma. I’m curious as to why OM is named equally in the lawsuit along with Fogen and wife. Isn’t the unpaid bill truly their responsibility since it was their security needs being met? When the contract was made, should OM have done something different in order to deflect any possible liability to himself?
My question also. I can’t understand a man of MOM’s intellect knowing he has a liar as a client getting into this agreement in the first place.
I suspect he never thought the money would stop flowing.
BIG MISTAKE!
TommysMom,
As Chris Rumbaugh, owner of AIS stated
“In hindsight we can see than george zimmerman was fraudulently inflating his expenses in preparation for a lawsuit against NBC”
To date MOM has not filed a Motion for an Immunity hearing, *but wait !* the hearing next week IS *all about* proceeding with the lawsuit MOM/the defense HAS filed against NBC.
See where this has gone, and where it’s going ?
MOM entered into a verbal contract with AIS, knowingly it was for excessive and unneeded security & investigations for the express purpose of bringing suit against NBC.
“Donations” have reportedly dropped of to a trickle, the “defense fund” is exhausted, MOM’s on the hook for the $27k AIS has sued for, AND there’s insufficient funding to pay gz’s living expenses/security and/or prepare for trial.
They thought the “donations” were a windfall that would continue rolling in, AND they could shake down NBC for a large negotiated/undisclosed “go away” settlement
I have no sympathy for MOM. He’s as shifty and dishonest as his client…boo effing hoo
If a lawyer can’t even balance a bank account he should quit and find another profession. I have concluded that O’Mara is a failure of a defense attorney. He took the job of defending Fogen for money and the possibility of bringing more business to his degenerate law firm from publicity.
I see on his firm’s site that he handles DUI cases. I wonder if Frank Taaffe is one of his clients. LMFAO
looneydoone
“To date MOM has not filed a Motion for an Immunity hearing, *but wait !* the hearing next week IS *all about* proceeding with the lawsuit MOM/the defense HAS filed against NBC”.
Correct me if I am wrong, I think you might be referring to the subpoena duces tecum (not lawsuit) to ABC (not NBC) to produce all documented information it has on DeeDee’s interview with Mr. Crump. I think this is what will be on the Court’s menu next week.
SearchingMind,
My mistake. You’re correct, it’s the Duces Tecum (not lawsuit) to ABC and NOT the NBC lawsuit on the Court’s calendar next week.
Thanks for catching my error,
Doone
thanks, Searching mind, so it’s about DeeDee’s call. Which means Jeralyn Merrit will be active on the case, and probably link to ,who she has long declared expert on the issue.
I caused a little confusion below by not carefully checking looney’s statement. I should have noticed since I was a bit confused between NBC and ABC at that point. 😉
Is there a date for the trial of Team Zimmerman versus ABC already?
Hmm, Diwataman disappeared below:
and probably link to Diwataman, who she has long declared expert on the issue.
Wow
Toxic George strikes again, another associate is dragged into the swirling vortex of sewage that is Zimmerman’s domain.