Open Thread: January 24, 2013

Welcome to the open thread for Thursday, January 24, 2013.

I posted one article today: What Happens if the Defendant Claims Indigence and his Lawyers Ask to Withdraw?

Use this open thread for comment and discussion regarding other topics.

127 Responses to Open Thread: January 24, 2013

  1. Xena says:

    I asked, other than this blog, do you comment on other blogs and if so, how many? This does not include comments on news blogs such as HuffPost.

    Thanks to all who responded. Now for my reason;
    There are numerous blogs that are specific on supporting justice for Trayvon. Some of you who responded have your own blog for that purpose. There are still others who post articles on other subjects, but from time to time, also post articles that focus on GZ’ case.

    There are a few GZ supporters who make deliberate aims at attacking this blog and at least two others. That in fact, the focus of their blogs is to report the posts and comments on this and at least two other blogs. LOL!!

    I’m trying to figure out why GZ’s supporters see this blog as a major threat. Based on your answers, and in a nutshell, I think it’s because of continual commitment.

    • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

      Ahh, here’s your reason lol. Not only is it the continual commitment, it’s their fear of the truth and they have mental problems that they are not getting the proper care for.

    • Xena, The outhouse really hates the Doth Protest site (and justice quest, LLMPapa, etc.)…..that’s why I started looking at that site too. Any site that the outhouse hates, that’s where I go. Deep down inside (at the bottom of their waste pit), I think that they are really afraid of the power and influence that sites that support Trayvon have on people. (They are banking on people being stupid and remaining uninformed.) The closer that the Trayvon sites come to exposing the truth and expose fogen’s lies, the more the fogen sites try to undermine these sites. When the things go bad for fogen (hearings etc.) the outhouse is dumbstruck, then they sputter and spirt a bit, then they start reving up, spinning more excuses. It’s become a pattern with them. That’s why it’s so funny over there. But if I stay too long reading their doo-doo, I get a headache!

      • Xena says:

        @grey winter sky.

        Xena, The outhouse really hates the Doth Protest site (and justice quest, LLMPapa, etc.)…..that’s why I started looking at that site too. Any site that the outhouse hates, that’s where I go.

        They have a personal hate for the professor. I think they caught on that naming the blogs was advertising and so now, they use acronyms or just names, such as “Leatherman” and “Xena.”

        Each pro-justice for Trayvon blog and video journalist has their own unique focus. It’s truly TEAM TRAYVON. Of the several blogs that are anti-Trayvon (I don’t call them pro-GZ because they don’t support GZ), they regurgitate the same illogical theories. Their theories are beyond the scope of what is relevant at trial.

        (They are banking on people being stupid and remaining uninformed.)

        HA! They can’t inform people by disparaging individuals who are not parties in the case, nor inform by disparaging witnesses. When they disparage Trayvon, they tell the world that they, under the guise of supporting GZ, believe that he committed a federal hate crime.

      • Jun says:

        The problem with the Conservative Treefort or Tinfoil Hat or whatever the hell it is, are trying tactics during the information age. Just about anything can be found out real quick fast, especially with advances in technology and sciences. It really is not difficult for people to see that a murder was committed and the defendant is staging manipulations to try and get off. Their tactic of making 2 billion profiles each and spamming the crap out of any chat section regarding this case, is just plain pissing people off now too, and will piss off potential jurors and jurors. People are very strong minded and opinionated in America, and they will want to form their own opinion by looking things over. It is amazing how futile and powerless they are that they have to stalk and harass people into believing them. It is one of the reasons people say torture does not bring truth out of people, because people will say anything you want when they are in trouble or hurt.

    • Jun says:

      I think the very few supporters of Fogenhats the 3rd are desperate to get attention and want to force people into their opinion. They have a medieval mindstate and fear knowledge, which is what this site provides in regards to law and how it is used and parlayed. I also feel that these people are lacking life and potentially jealous of others, so they choose to hate everyone and be negative and be a crab in the bucket, hence their obsessive cyberstalking and trolling. The Crump facebook page has posted about 18 facebook profiles of one user, and he/she has numerous more. To me, they are just no different than any other form of predator, and they want to infringe on people’s liberty of speech and opinion, because they can not take NO for an answer, and be reasonable, so I see them no different from a rapist.

  2. colin black says:

    Got any penny blacks?

    • seallison says:

      Funny guy!

    • Colin……..

      Actually I don’t….even tho they were the first stamp issued as we know them today…..invented by Sir Rowland Hill……Also they are not that expensive considering their history….Many can be had for under $200.00 USD

      I assume you’re a Brit…..An interesting piece of philatelic info for you…..Great Britain is the ONLY country without the name of the issuing country on them….The reason being….as they were the first there was no need to have the countries name on them.

  3. colin black says:

    Pat given the huge inflation that occoured in the pre nazi period
    Wheinheir Rep?
    Anyway Id imagine the cost of posting also went through the roof.
    They say people had barrow loads of notes to but a loaf of bread.

    Wasnt posting mail next to impossable.
    Id have thought there would be no room on the envelope to write adress .
    Given the amount of stamps required..
    Or were the printing stamps at a higher price on a weekly basis.

    • @ Colin

      The exchange rate Marks to Dollars in 1919 was 6 to 1……..At the end of the hyper inflation period Nov. 31st 1923 the exchange rate had gone up to 4.2 TRILLION Marks to the Dollar………The cost of mailing a local letter was 160 BILLION Marks….I have stamps ….full sheets in fact, denominated at 50 Billion Marks per stamp. A very interesting period.

  4. colin black says:

    In foggens logic
    He is re writting history in his mind.
    The point in the non emergancy tape.
    When he states he is comeing to check me out now.

    Is when he will claim the circleing ocoured.
    Its just that the non emergancy couldnt interpit foggens words corectly.

    Comeing to check me out now= He is presently circleing my car two times.

    When you understand foggen logic all is lost… Yikes.

    • towerflower says:

      Colin, The have him on tape saying that occurred at the clubhouse and I believe you can hear the car start to move as he moves down Twin Trees to follow.

  5. colin black says:


    I was intrested to read of your passion for Stamp Collecting.

    I dabbled myself in my youth nothing spectacular just a few subscriptions to magazines an sent of for hundreds of stamps mainly Hungarian

    I gave up when someone told me.

    .Philatately will get you no where.

    • Colin:

      I am a very advanced philatelist myself with a specialty in Germany…(Please don’t ask “why Germany Pat? are you a nazi?”)….I’ve heard that enough………The third reich was a 12 year period of German postal history…..I have an online store (NOT ebay) with over 10,000 items listed….of those appx. 4K are German….and of that 4K I would guess that fewer than 10% are from the third reich period. My main area of interest in Germany is the old German states…….I would venture that half of the German items in my store are pre 1900…..some going all the way back to 1851……I am also a member of the APS, GPS & ATA.

      I do laugh at the looks I get when I say “I enjoy philately”……sounds kinda dirty 🙂

      • groans says:

        That’s really interesting. My husband collected stamps for quite awhile – mostly in Sierra Leone, but some others, too. But his love of rocks really took over, and he’s been a serious rockhound and collector for decades now – mostly agate, but many others, too.

        And lately I’ve noticed his combining his collection interests – by picing up series of ROCK STAMPS from different places. Llike some German agate (famous ones that begin with “o,” but the name escapes me), Botswana agate, and Yemen agate (my persoanal favorite, because I served in the Peace Corps in Yemen in the 90’s).

        I never caught the collector bug, but I enjoy watchin what he comes up with!

    • seallison says:

      Pat – I have been a Philatelist since 1970 specializing in Canadian and British Monarchy stamps and First Day Covers. I have been a member of the Royal Philatelic Society and have had the opportunity to exhibit on occasion.

      It has always been a hobby and definitely not for investment purposes although I do have a number of valuable finds. There are just too many stamps issued now because the Post Offices realized there is much money to be made by cranking them out. In reality, there are not nearly enough letters being posted now.

      I suppose eventually stamps will go the way of the dinosaur.

  6. colin black says:

    (Though that’s nothing compared to the baffling time-travel in “Primer.”)

    Do you mean the time travell episode when Walter aquired the White Tulip ?
    He thought it was a sign from God whilst the audience knows its true origin.
    My take on the finale is he receives the letter or envelope contaniing
    the white tulip.
    An just as Walter explained in the vt he would try an contact him to ask why?
    An Walter would have vanished into thin air.
    Not erradicated from the timeline but just gone!
    In to the future.
    Walter knows thanks to the enlightenment bestowed on him by miricle boy Michel both timelines an knowlage of future an past events.
    The day before the non invasion he sends the tulip to his Son.
    Baldies invade time line no mail.
    Re set non invasion theres mail an Walter dissapears.

    PS When he called Astrid by her proper name I couldnt hold back the tears.

  7. Malisha says:

    Diwataman can imitate style all he wants, it will just be like Fogen saying “homie.” The problem is, LLMPapa has good material to work with. Diwataman can’t make a silk purse OR a coherent story out of a sow’s ear or a pack of stupid lies.

    • “Homie” has pretty much been out of the street vernacular for years….the same with the term “Holmes”….A youngster such as Trayvon…..if he were to have made any reply my guess is that it would have been “Dog”….which is currently being used.

      • Eric says:

        Thank you Mountainmanpat! When I first heard that from GZ I howled with laughter. That remark sounded as if GZ was stuck in the year 1994, and out of touch with the vernacular of young “homies”. I wonder if he didn’t get that word from FT, or Osterman. They are young enough to remember its usage, but apparently too old to know that the word is basically only used to ridcule old people. That is why GZ’s sounds so dated, and like he’s been listening to old NWA tapes and watching reruns of in living color.

        • Xena says:

          I saw this movie several weeks ago and this scene caused me to think about GZ’s use of “homie.” In the movie, when the guy in the hat lost his bet and tried to leave without paying, the bookie turned it around and called him “homie.”

    • jm says:

      Another great video.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        So good that Diwataman on the Treestump is copying your style LLMPapa!

      • Two sides…..I’ve also seen that over there too. Haven’t been able to watch but the outhousers like to believe that they have outdone LLMPapa and that their videos are the “truth”….cough, cough……

        • Xena says:

          Haven’t been able to watch but the outhousers like to believe that they have outdone LLMPapa and that their videos are the “truth”….cough, cough……

          LLMPapa is able to pack a wealth of information into a video of 3 minutes or less.

          I just went to Youtube and entered “George Zimmerman” in the search. The first returned results were the YoungTurks, followed by stateoftheinternet, who is Trent Sawyer. Teeslaw also returns in the first page of results.

          Anti-Trayvon, Pokerface Todd, comes up in the first page of results, but the titles of his videos are opinionated.

  8. aussie says:

    Not much of a blogger here….

    I have commented on Huffpo and a few others, but I gave up because they were all too stupid there. Haha now I think of it I made a comment on Treehouse once, too. Did not get a good reception, nor did I expect to.

    First blog I ever commented on in my life was bcclist, then I found this, and those two are it. I did make a casual comment on 1 one 2 sites linked from here, but don’t see the point saying the same things to the same people on numerous sites.

    • Malisha says:

      I would have liked him to answer the last question by saying, “My client could NOT feel any pressure because he had turned over all decision making to the office of Norman Wolfinger.”

      • looneydoone says:

        I sooo want to see Federal Criminal Indictments charging Conspiracy and Obstruction of Justice when the fogen case is concluded…Wolfinger, Billy Lee, Timothy Smith and others who’s intent was to sweep a murder under the carpet.

        My cynicism, and lack of confidence in the “Justice” system warns me that’s not likely to happen

        • Justice applies to just that….Just Us….all others need not apply.

          To quote Dylan’s “It’s Alright Ma”

          “The masters make the rules
          for the wise men, & the fools
          I have nothing to live up to”

  9. Dashamimi says:

    I have some reading to catch up on but does anyone know whether the videos from Kohl’s, Sam’s and others the defense will introduce for evidence be or available for viewing? If not, how is that different from the rest of the discovery documents?

    • whonoze says:

      I believe the defense has just made notice that they have those videos, which does not mean they will introduce them as evidence. The prosecution may not introduce the RATL clubhouse videos at trial, but they made them public as part of the discovery reveal under the Sunshine Law. I would guess the new batch would be posted eventually, but there seems to be less than full (or at least timely) public disclosure on a variety of materials.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        FDLE found nothing of relevance to the case in any of these. I presume the defense just wanted to survey them for themselves.

    • roderick2012 says:

      @Dashamimi &Two sides to a story:

      The mentioning of the video by the defense is an attempt to smear the victim by innuendo by implying that Trayvon ‘was up to no good’ that night even though George would never have known about anything Trayvon did before George saw him for the first time.

  10. Did you guys see this? where the dolphin (wild) actually swam up to get the people to help him?? it’s so beautiful i cried because i think dolphins are magic. ( for a lack of a better term) the few times i’ve seen them in the wild it takes my breath away and to me it’s like being in the presence of mother nature… and i think something is just really different about them…

    • Xena says:

      Dolphins are so trusting of man and have been known for fighting sharks to save humans. There are times I simply want to cry because God’s creation is so beautiful in so many ways. I can only wish that mankind could live with each other and nature the way peaceful animals do.

      Thanks for sharing this, Shannon.

    • groans says:

      Wow, Shannon – that’s a really cool video!

      I hate the thought of all the fishing nets’ and lines’ damage that “uncaught” critters suffer and succomb to underwater.

      It was so refreshing to watch this dolphin get relief from these divers – who, I imagine, were very surprised as well as very honored to help! It looks like a fairly large group of divers were watching the rays, so I wonder if the dolphin knew that such groups show up there routinely and are not threatening. Hmmmm……

      The dolphin’s skin also looked pretty beat up, in general, from several encounters – whether natural or otherwise. It reminded me of seeing manatees in Florida, where I got certified to dive, and their skin was very beat up – mostly from boats striking them, I was told. 😦

      Anyway, thanks for sharing the video! It was an uplifting change of topic for me, like it apparently was for you! 🙂

  11. Two sides to a story says:

    Carl Sandburg’s newly discovered poem about the power of the gun –

  12. colin black says:

    Trained Observer.
    As the vechicle was driven of from the crime scene.

    Its impossable to asertain if foggen had a wallet containg credit card or currency bill notes in the vechicle.
    Wich would bolster his shopping story.
    When taken in to custody he certainly didnt have enough cash for a weekly grocery shop.
    Not unless a few cents in a prse is enough.

    The real suspious up to no good guy had 40 odd dollars an change on his person.
    The upstanding citizen had 40 a pocket purse.

    • acemayo says:

      Who are the black kids who was at his house before he went
      to the store who are the kids parents if his story istrue on
      that part then they can confirm what he said

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I suspect they don’t exist – or were a fixture of the past.

      • yes i’ve been dying for them to show proof!! but nope not a peep!

        but i finally found a tiny bit more info(lies) about these so-called little black kids gz and sz mentored<<<< OXYMORON!! LMAO

        I heard about it on that video from Sanford Watch (posted on my page) it apears gz's old lawyer Mr.Sonner knows all about them!
        he said there was a boy and a girl. and thanks for reminding me cas i just found this last week and i've been meaning to find out if Mr Sonner made any other comments about it… I want to ask HIM about these kids!!! he's such a liar. but he acted as if he knew all about it!!

        i'm going to finish watching it tomorrow!

      • acemayo says:

        If the kids do exist and was there that night and GZ only had
        40 cent on him it is very possible his wife went with him to the
        store on the night he encounter TM since it was report GZ
        did not have gun resdue on his hands or arms. When he
        gave his statement he started to say him and his wife was going
        to the store but stop short of saying that.

        • Xena says:


          since it was report GZ
          did not have gun resdue on his hands or arms

          The EMT’s cleaned GZ’s hands and after he arrived at the police station, he was allowed to go into the washroom and clean up.

          When I was gathering info on the Dooley case, there was an expert who testified that when a gun is shot at close range, there is residue all over the front of the clothes, hands and arms.

          There was gunshot residue found on the back of a sleeve of GZ’s jacket. Now, it might take an expert to know how it got there. For now, I am wondering if the recoil of his gun hit him in the nose resulting in residue falling on the back of his jacket sleeve.

      • shannon….re: fogen’s old lawyer Mr. Sonner, is that the one that he scammed out of his fee? One other thing, can the former scammed lawyer (that fogen didn’t want to pay) and the former landlord (that fogen didn’t want to pay) be called on as witnesses for the prosecution to testify regarding fogen’s (lack of) character if MOM starts to tear Trayvon’s character apart?

      • Thank you Professor. Though I’m sure that they would like to say something…..

  13. colin black says:

    Xena most of the blogs I follow are not crime related.

    Curse of Future Tom
    Above Top Secret
    are a couple I comment at.

    Crime related an foggen related I folow an comment at some here.
    Marinade Daves
    Crime Watchers
    Blink on Crime
    Mainstream Fair
    Black Butterfly
    Trails an Tribulations
    The Truth does Have an agenda

    And for light releaf Treehouse though dont comment
    I will say this for the treehouse though there coverage on the Banghazi situation was light years ahead of the M S M .

    • Xena says:

      We originally met on Crime Watchers. (You introduced me to Tony Osoba.) I have to check over there because I don’t always get notifications.

    • Trained Observer says:

      AussieKay — Just to be clear, I wasn’t thinking GZ was planning on holding up Target with his gun, or even robbing Trayvon. But I do think he may have been out trolling for “effin’ coons” as he’s reportedly been known to say, and only came up with Target shopping story as a diversion to the night’s planned agenda.

      • Note also that he speaks of the Sunday night shopping with shellie as an absolute “ALWAYS”.

        So why wasn’t shellie with him that night they ALWAYS did their grocery shopping?

        • We don’t know that she wasn’t in the vehicle with him.

          She might have been, although I doubt it.

          I suspect he left his house to hunt for Trayvon after he received a phone call from someone who saw him in the neighborhood.

          I also suspect that the prosecution has the records of every subscriber whose phone number shows up in the fogen’s records and I’ll bet they have interviewed every person with whom he had a conversation that night.

          The records will not be released to the public due to legitimate privacy concerns, so I am going to have to be patient and wait until trial to see who called whom.

          I am expecting the prosecution will have a large poster board exhibit listing all of the calls during the relevant time period.

  14. annahkonda says:

    Some time ago, I recall reading that at the police station, he was found to have 2 quarters in a small plastic bag and no credit cards.

  15. annahkonda says:

    This blog is superb, imo. I check in few times a day, though I don’t comment.

  16. Trained Observer says:

    Coupla questions:

    1) Retreat@TL owners apparently met AFTER the Martin shooting, and (apart from wringing their hands) subsequently agreed to take out insurance, ostensibly to cover liability in such a tragedy. The selected carrier then declined (well, no kidding) to retroactively cover any potential liability R@TL may have (and there’s gotta be plenty if it’s proven GZ was patrolling in his Neighborhood Watch “captain” role, possibly even if he wasn’t).

    (In Florida, homeowner insurance carriers won’t even write new policies within a specified period BEFORE a declared hurricane’s cone of uncertainty begins hovering over the region.)

    What was the Retreat HOA thinking on this move? Or are HOA honchos too dumb to think, given their willingness to let a renter like GZ get involved with their business. And are any real estate specialists on this thread tracking the foreclosure rate post murder, compared to before at the Retreat?

    I feel for Retreat unit owners who had nothing to do with George or the HOA activists, and who now likely can’t find buyers, given potential looming liability against the HOA.)

    2) It’s apparently been established that GZ had a license to carry his cheap gun used to kill Trayvon. But it’s also been said that he needed (and didn’t have) a proper license to carry a weapon if patrolling for, say, an HOA. Is this a chargable offense based on trial testimony (if he claims he was acting on behalf of the HOA), in case he gets off on the existing M2 charge?

    Also, since GZ made a big deal claiming he was on his way to shop at Target (I’m betting Target marketing execs and shareholders cringe every time they hear that one), did the police document how much cash or what credit cards GZ had on him when hauled down to the station the night he killed Trayvon?

    Thanks in advance for insights from any and all.

    • Xena says:

      Is this a chargable offense based on trial testimony (if he claims he was acting on behalf of the HOA), in case he gets off on the existing M2 charge?

      IMO, GZ won’t have to claim he was acting on behalf of the HOA because their own Newsletters instructs residents that if they see suspicious activity, to call 911 then call GZ. Who does that leave for GZ to call after he calls 911? So he defaults as the lone NW enforcer.

      The HOA sanctioned his behavior.

    • acemayo says:

      where was it established that GZ had a license to carry his cheap gun used to kill Trayvon, could give a link that said so

      • towerflower says:

        GZ did have a concealed license. It is mentioned in the police reports and a photo copy was included in the evidence releases but it is so dark you can’t read anything on it. They mention in the reports it was in his wallet.

    • yep! too late for insurance now! but they had to have some type of insurance anyway, not enough though. maybe individual??

      but i’ve never understood why they let that moron near the HOA meetings, i mean really? why? now look at them, they need to be held accountable too for negligence when they knew what gz was not insured, never did a background on him, and put saving a few bucks above this child’s life! that’s BS!!!

      i bet the landlord gz was renting from is shaking in thier boots!

      • gblock says:

        HOAs are required to let all homeowners attend the meetings. Not sure where that leaves renters. They obviously didn’t have to agree with what GZ wanted to do.

    • seallison says:

      I think they would be in more trouble because there is not the security it advertises. For example, the security cameras not working, dark pathways, cut-throughs gaining access to a gated community, etc..

    • towerflower says:

      I never read a story that the insurance company that Sybrina Fulton was going after is trying to get that dismissed on the basis that they were not the insurance carrier during that incident. But there has been plenty of talk about how the HOA would be on the hook for GZ’s actions.

      As a private citizen with a concealed license it is not required to have a separate license for a NW–they don’t support volunteers carrying anyway. If it was a licensed security company then yes.

      • towerflower says:

        I meant to say that I read a story and not never read a story.

      • Xena says:


        As a private citizen with a concealed license it is not required to have a separate license for a NW–they don’t support volunteers carrying anyway. If it was a licensed security company then yes.

        That’s the point. In discovery material, an investigator reported that he inquired as to whether GZ completed the class necessary to qualify for a CCL. That reasonably conveys that something in State records required that investigation. Then the investigator inquired as to whether GZ had a Class G license.

        As you say, NW rules forbid carrying a weapon. They also forbid following suspicious people. But, GZ did both when he called the cops. Since he acted beyond the scope of NW rules, GZ could only lawfully do that with a Class G conceal carry license.

      • towerflower says:

        Xena, As someone who lives in Florida and I can teach the course, I can tell you that you have to include in the paperwork a certificate of completion of a NRA Safety Course. It does not have to be with a pistol but it could be a rifle, shotgun, hunting, or a range safety officer course. The state will not issue a license without one. Also with the Class G license it is required with “armed security” like with the types employed by specialized agencies, ie. Brinks. We know that GZ was not employed currently by any security firm; but he had at one time worked for a company that provided security and he worked as a bouncer thru them. Maybe that question was in relation to that.

        With the Class G license you must already have the Florida security D license for security and I don’t believe that ever came up. A Class G is also more involved and a longer course than just a concealed safety course. Since GZ was not employed by or worked as a security guard he doesn’t fall into the requirement for a Class G license. He was nothing but a private citizen even if he acted like a wannabe.

        • Xena says:


          He was nothing but a private citizen even if he acted like a wannabe.

          Oh, I agree. The question is why the feds would investigate whether GZ completed the course, and whether he had a Class G license. They have reason(s). Had GZ completed the course and a certificate been submitted, I don’t think investigators would have reason to look into whether he completed the course.

          The Class G license inquiry might be due to GZ patrolling on NW with a gun. This might extend to investigation of the SPD. If they knew GZ carried, and also patrolled on NW while carrying, then they should have also known that GZ needed a Class G license.

    • gblock says:

      “Also, since GZ made a big deal claiming he was on his way to shop at Target (I’m betting Target marketing execs and shareholders cringe every time they hear that one), did the police document how much cash or what credit cards GZ had on him when hauled down to the station the night he killed Trayvon?”

      Trained Observer,

      Funny, that has never put me off the idea of shopping at Target (although I have never used Target for groceries, specifically).

      GZ apparently had 40 cents and no credit or debit cards on him.

      Also, he had applied for a concealed carry permit, but it is possible that he didn’t have a valid permit because there wasn’t a clear record that he had completed the required training.

    • Malisha says:

      No insurance policy in the world would cover an event that occurred before the policy was in effect; 90% of them decline to cover events that occur AFTER their policies are in effect even if they’re paid up; that’s the name of the game.

      Maybe the HOA thought that once Fogen had gotten off (which he had, at that point in time), Taaffe was gonna start “shootin’ coons” and they better get coverage.

      The “shopping at Target” thing is very silly and nobody has to disprove it but I think the information came out that Fogen had something like 40 cents on him and no credit cards. Yet he made sure to load up that trusty “THE” gun.

      I comment on one other blog

      (Jonathan Turley Law Blog, where I actually began (with his first “Watch Captain kills Unarmed Teen but is probably not guilty although there was actually probable cause to arrest him and then boo hoo got overcharged although he passed a lie detector test”) (this is not a direct quote but it is more or less what Professor Turley presented as his opinion)

      and I read two others (Xena’s and Sling Trebuchet’s) but I’m going to start commenting on Lonnie Starr’s soon as my time and energy crunch resolves.

      Professor Turley quickly took a defensive position for Fogen and I think one of the first comments someone else put up there about that was, “Please, Professor, the kid is dead.” He never got as emotional as Jeralyn Merritt; she took Fogen’s words to be “handed down on Sinai,” and carried on about his terrible injuries and his fear of death and she vaguely and subtly threatened the Fulton-Martins that they would not like to see what came out about their dead child if they pushed for trial. I was disgusted. He never got as indignant and angry as his buddy Dershowitz who was running around (like a chicken with his head cut off) screaming that Corey should be prosecuted for perjury because she didn’t mention the picture of injured Fogen in her affidavit of probable cause. (He needs to stay on his meds, that’s all.) But Professor Turley DID call the voice stress analysis a “lie detector test” and he did publish the photo of Fogen’s injured head as if it would result in “a walk” etc.

      Blogging over there got me to discover the Leatherman thread.

      I have twice challenged Professor Turley on things he printed that were not perfectly accurate about the case (and he never answered, but he never banned me either), but he does maintain the convention of saying that Fogen “claims” things instead of broadcasting them as fact, so he’s not totally over the line.

      • aussiekay says:

        The 40 cents is in evidence.

        The no-other-money and no credit cards are assumptions. The latter probably based on later reports of how much he paid off the cards from the donations, so people are assuming there was no credit left on them.

        The no other cash is just an assumption based on nothing.

        He DID HAVE A WALLET ON HIM — Singleton saw it and took his CCW licence from it to check it. He was allowed to take the wallet home together with its contents. It could have had $1000 in unmarked $1 notes in it for all we know. (Probably not that much or Singleton may have remarked on it, but….)

        I am quite certain he was not carrying the gun to use it to “pay” for his purchases, and equally certain he wasn’t planning on getting shopping funds by robbing a skinny black teenager.

      • Malisha says:

        Something just now occurred to me. Very peculiar.

        If someone commits an act that the prosecutor charges as a crime, and that defendant gets off on a SYG, the law provides (unconstitutionally, I believe, but no test case has yet gone up for evaluation) that there can be no CIVIL SUIT based on the act EITHER, in addition to no prosecution.

        So now we have a situation where if Fogen was NOT charged, the HOA stood there with exposure to being sued because SINCE Fogen was never charged he never had a SYG hearing and there was no legal determination made that the act was SYG.

        Only if the person gets charged with a crime and gets off at a SYG hearing does the civil suit bar kick in.

        So HOA could have been sued if Fogen was never charged; and HOA will be vulnerable to suit if this goes to trial, but the only way HOA would NOT be vulnerable to suit would be if Fogen were charged and then then succeeded at a SYG hearing.

        Here’s my bet right now: There will be no SYG hearing.

        • Right there with you Girl………NO WAY can he claim SYG as he got out of his vehicle for whatever reason……”Oh shit I lost him”….and then proceeded to find & murder him…..Nope I don’t see an SYG hearing in the offing.

        • I agree that the defense probably will not request an immunity hearing. They have a vanishingly small chance of success and a world of interested onlookers would get an opportunity to preview the likely damning evidence of (1) the network of phone calls triggered by the fogen’s call immediately after he killed Trayvon and (2) the fogen’s social media, email and text messages before he was arrested.

          If I were defense counsel, I would not want to trigger an avalanche of negative discussion and comment about my client and his defense on the eve of his trial. Nothing good for the defense could come out of that.

      • Jun says:

        So far all that has turned up have been lies purported in regards to Trayvon’s real persona and the only person regretting going to trial and failing at dismissing is Omara and Fogenats The 3rd

        I do not know Meritt’s prerogative for trying to stand up for Fogenhats when it is very clear from the onset of evidence that Fogenhats went after this kid with a gun and an angry demeanor and vicious intent but perhaps she is a racist who wants to believe all that thug boy black dynamite imagery while pissing all over a dead kid’s rights and humanity

        All I would say to her and the others is Trayvon is just a kid. He was only seventeen. He went to 7-11 to buy Skittles & Ice tea before being targeted and stalked by an adult named Fogenhats, whom has a history of threatening behavior towards others and using violence and manipulation. The kid tried to even avoid the situation by running away, but the defendant would not let the victim be at liberty to walk home with Skittles and Ice Tea. The kid has a right to his privacy and personal space without it being invaded by a crazy stranger with intent on doing the kid harm. If the kid attacked at all, it was in self defense because the defendant was unrelenting and unwilling to let him go, and in fact, attacked the kid when he caught him by tiring the kid out. There is no forensic evidence of any form of attack or defense from the kid, as there is no foreign DNA whatsoever on his hands, sleeves or cuffs. The kid appeared to have tears on his face as he lay dying from the defendant’s depraved mind. It is also obviously a young person, a kid yelling and pleading for help, as the defendant threatened and attacked the helpless victim.

  17. annahkonda says:

    Yes. About 3. I find most commentary very informative.

  18. Xena says:

    Here’s a question for everyone. Other than this blog, do you comment on other blogs and if so, how many? This does not include comments on news blogs such as HuffPost.

    • Dave says:

      There are three hobby-related blogs that I occasionally comment on. Nothing even vaguely political.

    • not any other specific blogs other than i will visit yours and the that’s so not racist one… i keep it in the family 🙂

    • Romaine says:


    • seallison says:

      Does Twitter count. Other than that – Not any more.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I read blogs about the arts, mainly, and comment sometimes. This is the only one I’ve read daily. I comment on FB and Twitter daily, though about various things.

    • groans says:

      No. (And I’m still surprised that I comment on this one occasionally!)

    • towerflower says:

      Yes, yours Xena and I do post on the Yahoo! thread when a story comes out. I take a beating on Yahoo! but I hang in there.

    • Yes, on the “Doth Protest Too Much” site… fact Xena, I’ve seen you there too…. 🙂

    • Oh, I forgot one other site….Dr. Steve Best on word press.

    • whonoze says:

      Just here, BCClist, and the general Martin/Zimmerman discussion threads I opened on my own blog when BCClist hadn’t opened a new thread. That’s all I can handle in terms of time and level of apoplexy.

    • looneydoone says:

      No Twitter or Facebook either

    • Drew says:

      There are many:


      I post at each, but generally the threads are not as vibrant as they are here!

    • karenleah-yes-Im-finally-posting! says:

      Hi Xena

      The only other place i went before here was Val’s HinkeyMeter. Thats how i found my way here when someone mentioned it. Boy was i glad! Intelligent discourse once
      BUT ive been reading at yours just recently & am just as glad– i really appreciate your point of view!

      • karenleah-yes-Im-finally-posting! says:

        …discourse once *again*, it should read. (Jeesh i cant wait to get off this phone & onto my laptop once again 😉

      • Xena says:


        The only other place i went before here was Val’s HinkeyMeter.

        I did not follow the Anthony case, but heard that the HinkeyMeter was a very active blog that after the jury’s decision, was taken down. Then, I discovered a post about the class necessary in Florida for getting a CCL and what it teaches, clicked the link and it was the HinkeyMeter. That’s a wonderful article.

        BUT ive been reading at yours just recently & am just as glad– i really appreciate your point of view!

        Thank you, and everyone else who has visited.

    • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

      I’ve commented on Doth Protest Too Much (a few times), Yours (once), The Caylee Daily and CTH, until I had enough of their BS.

      When are you going to tell us why? I’m curious. D)

      • Xena says:


        When are you going to tell us why? I’m curious. D)

        🙂 I did. It’s here at 3:29 p.m.

      • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

        Just saw it and commented. I’ve been away and am trying to catch up. Thanks 🙂

        BTW, I like what you wrote about Dooley on your blog. I would so like to comment one more time on CTH with nothing but the link this sentence..”.Read and weep” and then sit back and smile. I’m sure they wouldn’t comment because they wouldn’t have anything to say. LOL

        • Xena says:

          @ChrisNY. When something significant about the case is presented to Zidiots, their general response is to mock, humiliate, and outright lie to disparage the writer and then the messenger.

          They have done that to the professor hundreds of times over, but he’s still here — and so are we.

    • Bahama Mama says:

      Hi Xena, This is the first “blog” I have commented on. I do comment on MSNBC’s Newsvine, YAHTC, Logi and Mountainmanpat are my friends over there. YAHTC brought me over here.
      Today was also my first visit to the Conservative blog “the last refuge”, I was appalled by their ignorance, and hate. I couldn’t resist making a few comments, so of course they jumped on me as fresh meat.

      • Xena says:

        @Bahama Mama

        Today was also my first visit to the Conservative blog “the last refuge”,

        Need some disinfectant?

        I was appalled by their ignorance, and hate. I couldn’t resist making a few comments, so of course they jumped on me as fresh meat.

        I understand they are like hyenas, and comments posted by pro-justice for Trayvon people are only allowed so they can feed.

        • @ Bahama Mama……….I have an idea of who you are after reading your post about newsvine………..That’s why I had to leave…..complete idiots……….Remember the one that repeatedly kept blaming the computer for all their typo’s? Moron is an understatement.

          And it brought up a lot of anger in me reading the zimbots posts….all the “thug” sh*t…..”One less we’ll have to support in prison” and such.

          All good here….open and honest debate. 🙂

      • Bahama Mama says:

        I sure do need some disinfectant! My email is filled with hatred and stupidity. As much as I’d like to respond (with some factoids) I know I shouldn’t so I won’t.
        Patrick…it’s Jo-An 🙂
        Are the bears all napping? Spring will be here soon(er or later)…

        • Yeah I kinda figgered it was you…..So how Ya doin?
          Without a doubt ur warmer than me 😐

          Bears are still napping…..Deer still always around….We have one spike buck who’s already shed one antler….he’s now known as Unibuck 🙂

      • Bahama Mama says:

        LOL…I’m good, and yes, probably warmer than you 🙂
        Good to see ya, I’m glad YAHTC brought me over. No Olga or Carmen here I see…:D

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Oh, here you were earlier,BahamaMama. Guess I would have understood your post on the next page if I had read this. Good for you stepping in over there. Good grief, if I ever went there I DEFINITELY would have to go in under another name handle. How about “Don’t like trash”?

        • Bahama Mama says:

          LOL…I signed in using wordpress, so it used this name.
          I would love to debate their stance, but they are a pack of rabid hyena, not dogs, Xena corrected me 🙂
          Instead of having a discussion on the evidence, they all jumped on me, calling me a stupid troll. LMAO
          They obviously haven’t looked at the evidence, they just repeat one persons theory and call it fact.
          Don’t like trash…good one!

    • Cercando Luce says:

      I do comment on a local blog besides this one. I like that Mr. Leatherman actively monitors his blog and answers the more salient questions. The comment sections following online articles are usually a complete mess of commenters accusing each other of being (derogatory name of choice) to the point that there’s nothing to learn from other people’s observations. Plus, there are quite a few regulars here with Mr. Leatherman who stand out for wit, coherence, and attention to detail. Really, I hope I meet, if not y’all, then people just like you.

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