Trayvon Martin’s Murder Forces Us To Confront Racism

Thursday, December 27, 2012

I realized the defendant was lying when I first read his narrative about the shooting.


Because I believe it’s extremely unlikely that an unarmed person would flee from a menacing stranger following him and, after successfully getting away, voluntarily approach, engage and attempt to beat that stranger to death with his bare hands.

That story is ridiculous. It made no sense to me when I first read it and it makes no sense to me now.

With two exceptions, I never have understood why anyone would believe that ridiculous story.

As a former criminal defense attorney and law professor, I certainly understand, support and believe in the presumption of innocence. I trained myself to think that way and always searched for the weaknesses in the prosecution’s case against my clients. I had no problem exploiting those vulnerabilities for the benefit of my clients. I suspect that most of the lawyers and law professors who have publicly supported the defendant did so from the perspective of presuming that he spoke the truth.

Since I no longer practice or teach law, I believe I can evaluate this case from a more objective perspective.

I cannot and will not presume that an obvious bullshit story is the truth.

I have reviewed all of the evidence released to the public to date and I have not found any evidence that supports the defendant’s story. Instead, his multiple inconsistent and contradictory statements conflict with the physical and forensic evidence. In fact, he has admitted that he shot and killed Trayvon Martin after he had him under control with a wrist lock. He said he pulled out his gun, extended his right arm, aimed to avoid shooting his left hand, and fired the single shot that killed Trayvon Martin. The terrified, prolonged and desperate shriek protesting the depraved execution that was about to occur finally and forever was silenced by the gunshot.

No one is going to believe that the defendant uttered that inhuman shriek with a loaded gun in his hand.

I feel obliged to remind my former colleagues that the presumption of innocence does not require them to blindly accept a liar’s story and actively defend that liar by supporting his effort to demonize an innocent victim and his parents. I am offended, horrified and disgusted by the unrelenting attacks on Trayvon, his family and their supporters. I have no respect for anyone who participates in or supports those attacks, including members of the mainstream media who publicize them, and by so doing, legitimize them.

Enough is enough.

We do not need or want to hear any more lying racist Zimmermans polluting the news.

The Trayvon Martin murder case is much more than a set of hypothetical facts to be discussed in a classroom. It is a real case involving real people and I think our responses to this tragedy reveal much about ourselves as individuals and as a society.

For example, in order to believe the defendant’s story, one would have to believe that Trayvon Martin acted like a stereotypical Black Gangsta thug in a Hollywood action movie. Would any Caucasian person believe the defendant’s story, if the person he killed were Caucasian?

Is it not easier for Caucasians to believe his story because the victim is Black?

I believe we would not have heard about this case, if Trayvon Martin had been a Caucasian kid. The defendant would have been arrested and jailed that first night. He would have been charged with second degree murder and prosecuted without any of the publicity and controversy that we have seen.

The most important lesson of this case is that racism is alive and well in our nation. The defendant’s characterization of Trayvon Martin presents each one of us with a litmus test. Those who accept and believe what he said are failing the litmus test and seriously need to ask themselves why they were so willing to believe such an obvious lie.

Those who continue to believe the defendant in the face of overwhelming evidence that he is a liar may be beyond help.

We live in a racist society and nothing will change unless we admit that we do and we commit to ending racism. As always, the self is the place to start changing society.

Trayvon Martin will not have died in vain if his death becomes the rallying point for a systematic, determined and prolonged effort to once and for all eliminate racism in our society.

Unless we succeed, we will remain a racist and failed society.

518 Responses to Trayvon Martin’s Murder Forces Us To Confront Racism

  1. colin black says:

    Malisha reading bottom up sorry but whomever wrote this is a troll an certainly not black .You wont get no answers that are coherant either Jun …Ask him what a bloodclot is re black slang he wont have a Scooby Doo…Malisha I wonder how many black people you actually know? how many have been in your home? You talk about us like were animals. Putting us in classes like a slave master would and you’re so carefree about. You like to sit around and discuss the plight of Black people, then you defend Jun’s racism, then it’s back to talking about the coloreds again…….Troll my best instinct IP would hail from Florida location..From the desk off /laptop..Some pretensious little /no mark..Thinks he is a celeb hounded by Papparatzi..

    Wonder how many times thease words have eminated from ShelLIES mouth plus her spouces

    O M G …We nearly got papped

    Thankfully we got away before they could find a wide angle lense.

    I predict that will be gz next desprate ploy for cash.Setting up staged photo ops to sell too rag mags.T M Z ..Perez Hilton et al/

    Might bring in fifve dollars.An thats five dollars not code talk.

    Bet there still scratching there heads how there super secret code was broken… ….

    • cielo62 says:

      Love ya, Colin! You make me work to read and enjoy every minute of it. Thanks! I know about Loki but hadn’t made the connection. I don’t expect to see Logi anymore.

      Sent from my iPod

  2. colin black says:

    In Viking Mytholigy Loki is the God of misscheif

    Someone whom has perhaps seen the Thor movie may prsume its spelled logi………………

    Any person whom is black knows words used hatefully towards them

    The best way to take the sting an insult from said word

    Is to adopt it as there own an useing it in an endearing way take its power to hurt away from the bigots

    Its not just black or brown or whatever colour that use it thease days it is mainstream

    Sure the hip hop wrap scene pioneered the takeing ownership of the


    Its gone mainstream now the movies The Hangover I an the seqell Hangover 2

    Has a Chiniese or Asian charecter anhe greets everone ithe the N word regardless of there skin tone..

    No complaints were raised because

    Takeing ownership off the word has destroyed its power to insult

    An i m o anyone whom claims to be BLAHCK know this……

    We know gz an ShelLIE has full paid up innerweb connections at least untill April Tax Time

    An being holed up 24 7 scouring all the blogs that comment about him pro few….con many.

    You better beleive he will be commenting an trying to cause confussion an strife

    He has done it seems all his adult an probably most of his childhood

    Its why his family dissowned him untill he hit the headlines an became a potential for earning money.

  3. colin black says:

    John Irveing one of Americas greatest writters i m o..Is a white male.Whom writes fiction .His charecterisation can be from a womans point of veiw .A lesbians point of veiw.From a woman whom thinks she is so ugly that she always wears a bear suite point of veiw.From a 6ft 8 former black pro footballer whom has had a sex change to become a womans point of veiw.From a Dogs point of veiw…What was this dolt a professer of ? Closed Minds.

  4. Malisha says:

    Jun, the play I wrote was about the Dred Scott case. I produced it in DC with kids from age 3 to 12, but then I wanted it to get into common use in schools and tried to get a grant for a university (which shall remain unnamed) to turn it into a teaching DVD to be distributed to public schools. They didn’t do it. But in the midst of the negotiations for it, a professor of something or other called me.

    He wanted to know, delicately, if I was white. I said I was. Suddenly he was openly disdainful. How did I presume to know how to write dialect for a slave in Missouri in 1850? I said I didn’t know how and had no budget for hiring a linguist or a speech expert, and had written the play in two weeks for grade school kids in DC in the year 2000. I said if the university had a budget to hire someone to correct any mistakes in the dialect, I would be delighted. He couldn’t stop complaining and he couldn’t get over what I had done which, in his mind, was presumptuous and negligent. I said, “See, my friends who are Montessori teachers asked me to write a play they could use after standardized testing was over. They wanted to make sure each kid got a speaking or singing role, and that the play was a work of historical fiction so the kids could zero in on one historical “moment in American history” and that the music to be used for the play did not require payment for copyrights. The school had zero budget for the play. So I wrote the thing quickly, what I call “down and dirty” and I ran it past the kids, each of whom had either read or been read to (for the younger ones) a children’s book that told the story of the Dred Scott case.”

    He said, “but now you want it to be put on a DVD for lots of schools to use.”

    I said, “Sure, and as part of that, I want someone knowledgeable to come in and do the dialect thing right but it can’t be me; I don’t know how.”

    He sounded just disgusted. I’m sure he opposed the project because it got killed a few days after our conversation. I reflected on his idea that it was wrong of me to put that play together “wrong.” But then I remembered my actors, those 16 kids with speaking roles and 23 kids with singing parts in the chorus. They had loved the play and all but one of them (a kid with a speech defect who resisted having a speaking part but later was proud of his success as the journalist William Lloyd Garrison) loved DOING the play. All of them learned about the Dred Scott case from the play.

    Now, 12 years later, I read a book that broke down a lot of the information I needed to have done the dialect more authentically. It would not have changed much substantively. It might have changed a couple of the scenes between JUST Dred and Harriett but not by much. And here’s the punchline: The professor who was so appalled at what I had done was also white.

    I think American racism is made of lots of things and one of them is American classism. Many American whites who imagine themselves to be high-class need an American low-class to keep them on their precarious perches. Classism is not one of my bugaboos since I am low-class myself (and neither proud nor ashamed about that) and am comfortable in this non-precarious place. But if you look at a person like Fogen (fitting into a class he wants to disdain) or like that Professor (imagining himself in a class that gives him “disdain-rights” over others), you see how motivated lots of people are to put others down with either sophisticated or primitive insults.

    • Jun says:

      It sounds like the professor made a big fuss over nothing or was afraid of repercussions because it was a film made by a white person

      I think it was a silly decision and even a modern film dealing with slavery, “Django” was made by Quentin Tarantino, who I am guessing is not black (he could possibly but I do not know his full family tree)

      I do not feel people of any skin pigmentation should be binded to only create art that is related to their skin pigmentation and there have been an article written in a black magazine regarding that and I agreed because it is a way to ghettoize art and creation

  5. Malisha says:

    Logi, I “don’t know what your thing is” and I don’t know how you managed to get into such a snit about whether I have Black friends to my home or not and I’m not responsible to you to give you my bona fides, but you called me out and here I go. You say:

    Malisha I wonder how many black people you actually know? how many have been in your home? You talk about us like were animals. Putting us in classes like a slave master would and you’re so carefree about. You like to sit around and discuss the plight of Black people, then you defend Jun’s racism, then it’s back to talking about the coloreds again.

    How many Black people do I actually know?

    At first I started off with a very defensive e-mail, in which I started naming (by first name or nick-name only, not last names) all the Black people (whether African American, African or, in a few cases, Black from neither Africa nor America) I knew. Then I was figuring out how many of them had been to my home, or rather, my various homes, during the years. It got complicated because in some instances I did not have my own home but rented rooms from other people and in some cases I just shared apartments with others and some of them were Black and some of them weren’t, and as I was doing this accounting it suddenly occurred to me that first of all, I shouldn’t do it, and second of all, why would I think that I should, and right beside that, why should YOU think that I WOULD?

    Then it occurred to me that you would think that I would — if you did — because you would expect me to defend myself against the pretty clear charge you were making that I was a racist and the way I expressed myself on this blog proved that I was not only a racist but also a self-righteous, self-aggrandizing, down-talking, therefore the most despicable KIND of racist.

    So first, let me abandon my self-defensiveness first and tell you that if I hurt you, I’m sorry. I don’t know your gender, age, or other i.d. details but I can see from your comment calling me out that you are Black and you already know I am white. And I’m not going to tell you that I’m not racist because I personally believe that every single person born and raised in this country IS racist one way or another way and it’s up to us to continually confront that and deal with it. And I am NOT going to indulge in the cliche bullshit about “some of my best friends.” I do not owe it to you to do that. I do owe it to you to do one thing and I owe it to myself to do another.

    First: I owe it to you to explain what I meant when I commented on Jun’s use of the wordling “nigga.” If I am remembering correctly, Jun used that word when he called himself a “nigga-chinky” which is a compound wordling I had never heard! I did say that I didn’t know what your objection was, because I didn’t. I presumed that Jun came from a different culture than the one I came from, and his use of the compound wordling was OK in his culture, that’s all. Since he did not use it to try to deliver insult to you or anyone else, I couldn’t understand where the insult had come from. By that, I surely didn’t mean to insult YOU. So here I am, saying, in addition to my apology for having inadvertently done so, that I surely didn’t mean to and don’t understand how I did. Nevertheless, we should apologize for the wrong we do deliberately and for the wrongs we do accidentally, and even for the wrongs we do unknowingly, and apparently I have offended you, and that’s wrong.

    Second: I owe to myself to make clear to you what the wordling “nigga” has meant to me, and what any compound wordling made of that word has meant to me. I first heard the “N” word itself when I was little and my mother told me that it was the original word that had been used in a rhyme the school kids chanted including the line, “Catch a tiger by the toe.” My mother explained the N word to me and did not spare a few references to lynching, burning, KKK activities, prejudice and slavery. We did not use the word “racism” back in the 50s; it was “prejudice” then. She strictly directed me never to join in the game NOT because that word was still used but because it had PREVIOUSLY been used in the dirty origin of that taboo rhyme. I was suitably horrified. After that, and on into adulthood and old age, a white of any origin, religion, ethnicity or nationality who used the N word was immediately branded in my opinion with horror; none of them would ever be my friends. Then the man I married, who never had used any racial epithets before we were married, used the N word in my presence long after I had sued him for divorce, and he used it when describing why he would not let me entertain at the house we both lived in, which belonged to both of us (and for which I had paid the down-payment): “because you would invite your Niggers in!” Of course his having deprived me of a key to my own house, and done other things like that, resulted in my divorcing him, but I had never been given any reasons for his kingly pronouncements. He generally said, “If you don’t know you don’t need to know.” That’s the kind of stuff divorces are sometimes made of. He then fought me for custody 28 times and privately told my brother-in-law that I was letting HIS CHILD play with “Nigger children.” The strangest part of this is that he met me when I lived in a New York apartment with four other young women: two Jews, one French woman who was a Roman Catholic, and one Black woman who was a practicing Baptist! He never showed the slightest disrespect to me or any of my room-mates before we had married and merged our funds; after the house was purchased, he began to show his true colors, but only gradually.

    OK, so much for learning how the N word evolved in my life. As a young adult and as an older adult, and now as an old adult, I have had a fair number of Black friends and it’s probably proportional to the total number of friends I have had. Some of my Black friends and one in particular of my son’s Black friends have used the wordling “nigga” in my presence, but referring to some other person, not to me. I have always felt it was their privilege to use that whatever way they wanted to. My habit would still be never to utter any version of the word or its progeny.

    I was surprised, but not much other than surprised, when I saw Jun use the phrase “nigga chinky” but don’t remember any other feeling it aroused in me. Since I had read many of Jun’s posts before seeing that, I held him in high regard. When you sailed forth at him, I just put up a post to meditate on the issue, not to criticize you for feeling offended; in fact, I hadn’t yet “gotten” how offended you felt. I had once heard a similar compound wordling use before. A Black friend of mine married an American born white man whose first wife was a British born woman of Pakistani descent. The husband decided to play “Let’s you and her fight,” to make himself feel big and wanted, so he started forwarding critical e-mails from first wife to second and so forth. In one of the first wife’s e-mails, she called the second wife fat and called her hair nappy. The second wife told me, “He calls HER a ‘Paki-nigger’ because that’s the term they use in England, and he claims she doesn’t mind. The two of them can talk that way but I’m not having it.” I was shocked of course, but again, didn’t get too deeply into what might be these folks’ habits between each other. It wasn’t long before the husband called my friend the N word itself; not long after that came the divorce.

    But here I start to take issue with you, Logi. You can call me racist because, as you see, I call myself racist and I deal with it. But don’t tell me how I “treat Black people.”

    You say:

    To both you and Malisha there is nothing more sicking then hearing non-black people discussing what Black people should be offended at. Talking about the different types of Black people like we are a science project.

    …To a Black person ,which I am, the words coon and nigger are the same thing.

    Malisha I wonder how many black people you actually know? how many have been in your home? You talk about us like were animals. Putting us in classes like a slave master would and you’re so carefree about. You like to sit around and discuss the plight of Black people, then you defend Jun’s racism, then it’s back to talking about the coloreds again.

    You guys say you’re down with Trayvon yet you defend the use of the word nigger. That’s a damn shame cause that word was probably the last word Trayvon heard before he felt a hot bullet in his chest.

    Jun I don’t want to hear that drag about you came up with that nigger crap ten years ago, cause you’re posting it now. Come to Oakland with that shit. You people are a bunch of hipocrates.

    So you think I defended Jun’s use of the word “Nigger”? I don’t think I did. I don’t even think he used that word. I actually believe what he said about some photobucket although I frankly don’t know what a photobucket is. When you say you’re sickened because I’m discussing what Black people should be offended by, I lose you altogether. I honestly said that I honestly didn’t understand what had upset you about what Jun said, because I did not believe he HAD used the word “Nigger.” I’m frank to also say I didn’t really get what he meant when first saying “nigga-chinky” but thought it must be some vernacular by-product of “nigga” as used by my friends who said it in casual banter among themselves.

    I have not talked about Black people “as if they are a science project.” You have traveled very far with that one, and I did not provide your vehicle. Plenty of my Black friends were visitors to my home when I had my own home; now, I am visitors to their homes more often, and that included Christmas when I was invited to the holiday celebration of my friends from Ivory Coast. Of course I have studied about certain groups of Black people I never knew because I did research and wrote a play about the Dred Scott case, which took place in the 1840s and 1850s in St. Louis, Missouri; nobody alive knows those people and the only information available is what was written by people who WERE alive then. Do I “treat” them like a “science project”? No, but I guess I do treat them as a history project.

    I know a lot less about you than I know about Harriett Scott, Lizzie Scott or Eliza Scott; I know less about you than I know about Trayvon Martin; I know more about Jun than I know about you; you know very little about me; I can probably name six Black friends of mine who would be angrier about what you wrote on this thread than I am (Jackie, Kenisha, Anne-Marie, Iggie, Lucia, Winnie — there!) but that doesn’t matter much. The stuff you said about me casually putting Black people in classes like a slave master was bizarre; where did that come from? That stuff, I just plain deny; it’s untrue.

    However, the more I can learn about people, the better. I’m interested in learning more about you but I’m not eager to appear to invite more expressions of hostility. My being white, as my being Jewish, were accidents of birth and I embrace them. Little good it would do me to react otherwise, huh?

    Professor’s article on this thread is significant for the very reason that you, Jun and I have gotten into this discussion. I respect you and ask you to consider respecting me. Although I won’t bring you “a note from my mother” excusing any past comment I have made, I will read and thoughtfully respond to whatever comment you make now.

    • cielo62 says:

      Malisha- you have my undying respect. You gave way more time and energy to Logi than it deserves. You owe us nothing yet selflessly give a great deal. As I posted elsewhere, language changes over time. If Logi is too thick to know that, maybe it isn’t old enough to be alone in big kid blogs.

      Sent from my iPod

      • Malisha says:

        Cielo, how kind you are to me. I answered Logi because only this morning did I discover how severely offended Logi had become and I hadn’t meant that at all, so there was something that needed to be done to address it.

        But my answer was far from “selfless” although I appreciate your giving me a compliment. I really DO not want to be misunderstood. A friend of mine asks why this blog means so much to me, and I recently answered him:

        “You know that when all that [omitted details on purpose] was done to me, I had to be careful NOT to talk about it. I had to gag myself so that people who spoke with me wouldn’t find themselves dreading my voice on the phone, wanting to leave the room, wanting to get away from hearing about it. So I became silenced by the fact that I still wanted to have friends, co-workers, colleagues, and a social circle. Now, I find that I want to express myself, and do not want to face alienation and isolation as a consequence of expressing myself, and that’s what the blog means to me. And on the blog, I can probably do no good at all, in the real world. I can probably have no positive effect on the actual course of events. But I am blogging because it is a freedom being restored to me.”

        He’s a forensic psychiatrist, very well known, very well respected, high hourly rates. He said, immediately, “OH! I understand now. So you must keep on blogging.”

        What I got out of speaking with Logi was really valuable. I even hope Logi answers me because I am not convinced that what has happened between us so far is some kind of universal “final word” and there’s no law of physics that says it must be. 💡

    • Jun says:


      I actually laughed when you wrote that you made a play about it…

      But anyways, I am not gonna use that photobucket handle on here to post my pictures. I used that photobucket because I was doing experiments on photographic shadows and I felt it strange that Fogenhats’ picture of his alleged broken nose looked stranged because the dimensions of his head looked weird and his nose looked abnormally large and he appeared to be bleeding out the tip of his nose, rather than the nostril…

      Long story short, I was pondering where I should upload the picture, so I could show that a normal picture or photo should have shadows due to the flash of a camera, including Iphones. I did not want to use something that was not private, so I used photobucket, which is a social network site where you can upload private photos and keep the files…

      I remembered that I had a photobucket handle that I made about 10 years ago, for which the handle is infamous right now…

      Anyways, Logi got angry in another thread regarding it, and claimed to be black (I have no clue if this is even true because I do not know if it is a troll or truly a black person as claimed)…

      So I started a discussion with Logi that it was a bit of ignorance of my youth & I made it because it was just common usage to use the word “Nigga” to mean something different… people of all races would call me “nigga” and then after a while I caught on that they used it to mean “friend” or something…

      Then I did research and the hip hop pioneers stated they wanted to use the word regularly and change the meaning of the word, so as to take the sting of the word away, so that is why he and many turned it into hip hip slang to use “nigga”

      I told Logi that I mean no hateful intention with the usage and explained how it came to be…

      I then asked Logi how Logi felt about the word, and how it is used in entertainment by various rappers, in movies, novels, and plays, even by black people

      I never got an answer

      Then when this thread came up, it came to me that the Fogenhats family, were using specific modus operandi within their words

      Logi, still angry about my 10 year old photobucket, stated that I let all people call me “Nigga Chinky”

      So I let Logi know if it bothered her, if non black people use the word “nigga”, Logi should not single me out and go after all non blacks who use the word nigga. I let her know it was common usage in New York, especially amongst black and latino people as everyday vernacular…

      Then Logi told me i was going to call Obama a “nigger” and I never made such plans and then told me Puerto Ricans are all African Slaves and wanted me to go to Oakland to repeatedly say “Nigga Chinky”, in hopes of me getting in a violent altercation…

      i was also a little bit confused because not all Puerto Ricans are black so how come Logi stated they were all black slaves…

      Then I figured potentially it was Junior trying to cause a mess, so I put that forth

      Anyways, I wont use that photobucket for here anymore if it offends her, and I even told Logi it was not my intention to offend anyone, it was just an old photobucket account that I used for new pictures and I am not a racist, as I do not feel i treat other races of people as inferior… I admit that there was a tad bit of youthful ignorance but it was the first time anyone has gotten mad about it, since the 10 years I have used it

    • tinytruthseeker says:

      YOU are my hero Malisha! If I can grow up to be half as articulate I will feel I am a success…. If I grow up to be half as patient …. well….that’s probably just not going to happen….

  6. colin black says:

    Thing is raceism has nothing to do with race peoplesdiffernt shades of colours or faceial features,Raceism religious intolarance can all shelter unnder the uberrella of hate.Ipsofacto reaceism is just an excuse to inflict hurt or slavery demeaning social stauture in Society.Take India foe an example a country /sub divided contienent close to my heart.

    I have many Indian pakistani freinds in Scotland,Ive live in India for a lot of my adult life an consider it my second home.Yet iy is perhaps the most raceist countrys on this mortal coil we call a planet.

    An the realy strange thing is the purest liniage of Indians bred with only there imeadiate villigers an same caste ,Therfore where pureblood stock of the Indian Land.However Indians that bred with europeans an became mixed bloodlines so to speak mongrols became higher caste simply because there skin was lighter like westerners

    Considered superior thermore thease halfcastes where above life staion to pure bread stock an on an on it went .So the Inseans with least pure blood an maximum western blood an hence the lightest skin becam e top castes An original Indians pure stock became lowest of the low…Refered to as the UNTOUCHABLES…..

    Were not allowed to handle food prepeatin an were given the lowest of the low jobs .Empteying shit an piss slurry tanks.Barbers wouldnt even cut there hair so they ended up with dreadlocks hundreds of years before Bob Marley was born .Serbians killed fellow sebians sometime s family members through religioud differences an nothing to do with colour .Australia treats abboriganies as tenth class citizens

    Imprisons them at a higher rate per capita of any miorites in the world Even higher than S Africa at the hight of A PART HIDE..Scots show raceism towards English an vice versa ..An I could go on an on with examples proveing Raceism has nothing todo with fear of skint tones .An everything to do with fear intollarance jealousy .Tribal instincts inxtalled since the dawn of mankind..But those days are gone we are all the same .We have to learn to get a long

    To live together because if we choose not to an cling to our petty tribal band of brothers oiutdated crap…We will not live together an EVIL will prevai…Dot beleive me think im full off it?…..Do this simple experiment.

    Write down the word evil .Write down the word live..Then read both word back to front an see what they spell…..An this is a point for those treeple whom seem to think skin colour is Important an TRAYVON MARTIN being black contributed to his death…..I assume most are caucasion or white?

    Well wrong you are not white In fact you are darker skined toned than Trayvon an all PEOPLES DECENT FROM Africa as all people alive today were decendants of less than ten thousand Africans whom left Africa few hunderd thousand years ago

    I digress Treeple if you know anything about light an refraction freqencies..Objects absorb colour anany it cant absorb bounces of the object an reflects.So we see the sky as blue but its every coulor but blue.Thats the one colour it cant deal with so it rejects it .Same with grass apears green to us as it cant absorb it so rejects /reflects it same with ever colour we see.

    Same with TRAYVON he wasnt a coffee colured.beutifull hue.He was every colour but.Same with George he wasnt white or pasty coloured.He in reaity was darker skinned than his prey…

    So treeple you better strat hateing yours selfs an loveing black people…..Wait a minute you already do hate yourselfs an allthough not loveing black people you are certainly jealous an in auwe of there physical prowwness… M O O…………..

  7. SearchingMind says:

    Pls. read: my apologies ….. if this statement ofends anyone.

  8. SearchingMind says:

    Life – from its inception – wasn’t meant to be fair, is not fair and its unthinkable to think of Life that is fair and as such devoid of evil (from the Utilitarian point of view). Evil is a necessary element for any form of life to (begin- and) continue to exist. It is intrinsic in (human) nature and has as such no independent existence. That Evil manifests itself in many different forms, one of which is: racism. The English Oxford Dictionary defines racism as “the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races”. This belief, i.e. racism, is inherent in ‘beingness’ and is not just a White-versus-Black-problem. It’s everywhere where (human) Life exists. Indeed, for many centuries, White Europeans slaughtered millions of fellow White Europeans on what were essentially a race-wars. To date some Germans can be insulted by being called a Russian or a Pole (I studied and lived in Germany of a year). The picture of racial conflicts within Asia is not different. In Rwanda, some Africans slaughtered nearly a million fellow Africans with machetes within a space of three days. I will not be getting into the extraordinary event known as the Holocaust (because I do not have the emotional strength to do that). Racism and the damages that is done by the practice thereof can only be fought and minimized with the Law and Education. But racism as such can never be eradicated. It is intrinsic in man. That’s the big bad news. When there is no more racism, (human) life shall have ceased to exist. The fact that there are those of us (White, Black, Asian, Indian, etc.) who need neither the law nor education to recognize racism as evil and fight it whenever they see it, dose not negate the above.

    I am not trying to go Ed Nelson on you guys but I think God is immoral – for shaping life as we know it. My apologies in advance if this offends statement anyone.

    • Tzar says:

      Life was not meant to be all kinds of things that we work to make it into
      that is our talent.
      if justice be unnatural then instead let it stand as a cherished man-made monument to the will of man.

    • cielo62 says:

      Nice post. However you failed to realize one important thing: free will. We ALL have urges inherent to human nature- violence, sex, hunger, creature comforts. Yet we abstain from seeking those things in ways detrimental to society. Why? We have free will. That is what ultimately defines evil- the ability to choose actions which hurt others. GZ is evil. He CHOSE to kill that child. Can’t blame God for the choices one makes.

      Sent from my iPod

      • jm says:

        cielo62: “However you failed to realize one important thing: free will. We ALL have urges inherent to human nature- violence, sex, hunger, creature comforts.”

        Not sure if the free will enters into the problem I have with people not being “created” equal. Some people just aren’t given a level playing field. I can’t presume to know if that is what the SearchingMind meant though.

        I’m thinking more in the direction that some are born into poverty and there is no way out – not particularly this country but around the world.

        I guess you have to play with the hand you have been dealt but why was the hand dealt would be my question if I ever have the opportunity to talk to God in person.

        • cielo62 says:

          Jun- by training, I am a philosopher. I could easily spend pages answering your question. There is a difference between unfair and unjust. Losing lives to a natural event is unfair. Losing someone to someone’s choice is unjust. And then there are the gray areas as well. Free will and moral growth are not just individual mandates but societal mandates as well. 500 years ago worldwide slavery was acceptable. Today it is not. Our societal values have expanded. India no longer belongs to the UK. Not because of violence but because one man spoke to a nation’s sense of justice. Gandhi would have been nothing except he spoke to a nation ready to hear about India’s right to self govern. One day India will have to listen to its own people and/ or have a civil war like the US in order for discrimination to be addressed. God is not immoral. People choose evil. They choose it both as individuals and as groups that oppress others. In my small way I buy products that support free trade goods. I avoid Walmart. I buy local when I can. And I support just causes. Small things for an individual but more powerful when many join in. GZ killed Trayvon. So did Southern racism. Both are within our power to confront.

          Sent from my iPod

    • Malisha says:

      SearchingMind, good post and thank you for it.
      I need to read it a few more times, and that is a good sign.
      Be well. 🙂

  9. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Professor, perhaps we need an article from you about methods and mindsets we can use to avoid allowing distractions or opponents to move us off topic.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      At the same time, I also want to say that posters here have addressed the distractions appropriately.

    • seallison says:

      I am beginning to feel that this blog is becoming more of an us against them (meaning the CTH) and I have believed it to be above it. But, to choose a mindset, to discourage opposition and eliminate distraction makes it no better – discussion, theorizing, fact-checking, analysing was the goal in seeking Justice for Trayvon Martin.

      I guess now we have to spout the same rhetoric, put-down those who believe a defendant is considered innocent until proven guilty and pat each other on the back.

      I have yet to have seen a post that has, at times, moved off topic. Nothing wrong with that. Listening to music and having fun is a great distraction. There has always been opposition and that makes for a more productive discussion.

      I see I do not belong in this group of know-it-alls who feel common sense needs to be explained.

      Sorry everyone – stand back and take a look at what you have become. It is too bad.

      • seallison says:

        should be – not moved off topic.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Yes, seeking justice for Trayvon should involve discussion and analysis of the evidence that has been release thus far.
        I also think Frederick Leatherman has written many excellent articles for us to consider
        We are fortunate to have the American system of justice where a jury hands down the verdict in a court of law.

      • cielo62 says:

        Goodbye seallison! Don’t let the crushing silence hit you on the way out! Nothing you posted is even remotely true. Feel free to head back to your cesspool @ CTH.

        Sent from my iPod

      • what are you schizophrenic? ummm, yeah it is *us* against the them! and by*them* i mean anyone who thinks GZ is innocent! so if that’s *you*, cth, omar or any other zimmerlovers out there, then yes I AM totally against them! and i don’t care to discuss the evidence with them because they have no credibility, they’re only relying on GZ’s bullshit lies not facts. that’s not rhetoric that’s real.

        as for moving off topic, i don’t know what your talking about. but i do know this isn’t military school so if we aren’t following your rules well now you know why.

        • Xena says:

          @shannon. What you posted to seallison, aka grahase. Don’t sweat it. It might be the same grahase who back in September was active over at the treeslum and who was subsequently criticized there for playing both sides of the fence.

    • seallison says:

      The topic was racism – I saw discussion about the security guard company suing the murderer, I saw discussion about imposters, and a few other distractions. Do you really want to discourage it.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        I do not consider responses to Frederick Leatherman’s articles or comments about anything pertaining to the gz case as distractions.

      • SearchingMind says:

        @ Seallison

        My answer would be: YES. I think we should all confine our comments to the subject of the discussion. Granted, (minor) deviations here and there are inevitable. But I find the ‘imposter-thing’ really more than too much, non-constructive and unpleasant to read.

      • cielo62 says:

        Dang I thought you were gone.

        Sent from my iPod

  10. seallison says:

    I Googled Associated Investigative Services and it has a Facebook page started in February 2011. The FB shows no action. It is (apparently) located in Orlando. I just wonder if this is Osterman. I ask only because no Air Marshall is going to tell people he is an Air Marshal if he doesn’t want to get fired.

    • Malisha says:

      Good call.
      SOMEBODY is collecting and handling money.
      SOMEBODY is doing “security.”
      Maybe that somebody knows how to get an ankle bracelet off.

  11. seallison says:

    Professor – it appears that this site has become a site where criticism of a comment is not acceptable. Discussion is one thing. But, when someone states opinion as fact and it is not or there is no evidence to support the opinion, I would expect to be called on it. But, not here.

    Racism is obviously in the eye of the beholder. There is no way on Gods green earth that anyone will understand what it is like to be black in America unless one is black in America. I am not black and I can not believe the stories I hear. I can only imagine. To pretend that I understand it all would be a terrible mistake.

    Yes, racism is in the eye of the beholder. We also have sexism, anti-Semitism, classism, bullying and the list goes on.

    Fat jokes, blonde jokes, ethnic jokes are NOT acceptable or enlightening either.

    Respect, sensitivity, kindness, and civility are a good start.

    I would appreciate another post. This one is going nowhere fast.

  12. seallison says:


  13. grahase says:

    Okay – someone IS using my name on Twitter. I dont know what to do. But, I will find out. Until then — I will not be commenting. Any comments made will not be my own. What gives!!!!!

  14. sweetiepie says:

    I’ve been reading the posts about the impersonators and let me add some information. The person who posts as “Lance Hudson” is a racist and Zimmerman supporter who posts nastily and prolifically on the Orlando Sentinal, his home base. He has many, many screen names and makes it a point to exactly copy Trayvon supporters’ screen names/avatars and post insulting, racist garbage about Trayvon and his family.. Sometimes a Trayvon supporter pays him back by doing the same to him.

    He knows about this blog and makes disparaging remarks about Prof. Leatherman and his wife. He references the information here. He and his supremist friends have gone to every Pro Trayvon site that they find out about and post horrible stuff and copy screen names as well as sign up with names like “Chickenhead”. The problem with blocking this person is that he does not have a static IP address. He’s a ghost. This is the explanation I received from an online newspaper as to why he is still posting.

    Good luck sorting out all his impersonations and other sociopathic behaviors. Just know that he’s a rabid Zimmerman supporter and go from there.

    • jm says:

      “The person who posts as “Lance Hudson” is a racist and Zimmerman supporter who posts nastily and prolifically on the Orlando Sentinal, his home base.”

      His home base, (Orlando Sentinel) allows his awful posts to stand with his “friend” Manuel who backs his posts up within minutes, but Orlando Sentinel deletes responses, including mine. I suspect the Orlando Sentinel is pro Zimmerman and “Lance Hudson” may even be an employee with the ability to delete pro Trayvon posts.

    • hey sweetie!! 🙂

      and yeah, this person (lance) is repulsive and he tried using my avatar before and i freaked.

      • sweetiepie says:

        hey shannon! Hope you’re very, very well. I don’t post here (just read) but I had to add my 2 cents about Lance of 1000 Screen Names. I’d bet the farm he’s behind the fake Prof on HP.

        And jm, I agree 100% in your assessment of Manny and the Zimmerman culture at the OS. It’s all pretty disgusting.

  15. groans says:

    Has anyone found a copy of the security company’s Complaint anywhere online? If so, could you please share where it’s available?

    Apparently, some news organizations have obtained it (since they’re reporting bits and pieces of it), but I haven’t seen that any of them provide access to the document!

    It’s great that reporters have let us know of the Complaint’s existence – one even revealed the important fact that it’s 73 pages, and a TV station showed a little image of it. But I hate when they report about a document without providing access to it. Almost always, the media’s pitch about what’s important in it differs drastically from my view after reading it myself. (A pet peeve of mine … please forgive my digression!)


    • JUN says:

      The only part I have learned is that it was an oral contract

      part of it was written

      but anyways

      they were receiving $7,000 a week from Omara and will have witnesses and records of that with the evidence of the work they provided

      They continued the services and Omara simply stopped payment yet continued usage of the services

      So what will be coming out will be emails and phone calls and witnesses to the facts

      I dont see Omara winning considering that they had a system of payment in place, so obviously there was a contract some place to pay AIS security services $7,000 a week

      • seallison says:

        How do you know what will be coming out. As far as I read, the payments were coming from someone independent of MOM who was handling the murderers financial affairs. Have you seen evidence of MOM stopping any payments to the security company because it seems I have missed it.

      • Jun says:

        That is what the whole lawsuit is about

        The stopping of payments and the continuing of services

        It is written in every article

    • gbrbsb says:

      Maybe GZlegalcase will publish the complaint… lol!

    • seallison says:

      So far, it has just been reports. I can find no official document.

      • yeah they’ll have *more to say* leading up to the next court hearing. you know, Omar Must stay in the spotlight b/c the potential jury needs to know all the struggles GZ and fam have been put through since all these crazy charges were brought!!

      • Malisha says:

        HA HA HA HA HA HA HA The biggest piece of news, and the biggest surprise, in this whole news report was:

        O’Mara declined to be interviewed! 😛 😮

        Huh? ❓

        Prior to this revelation, the most dangerous place to stand in Seminole County (now that Fogen is no longer on NW Patrol) was between Mark O’Mara and a camera! Now he doesn’t want to talk?

        HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! Previously, all the attendees at the International Torture Convention were dealing with one very sticky problem, best expressed by expert torturer Labrofingg Flomaschz:

        “We know how to make you talk; what we don’t know is how to make you shut the fogen UP!”

    • seallison says:

      Found the paperwork for lawsuit against the murderer, his wife, and lawyer:

  16. Nef05 says:

    @Xena – strange you don’t seem so “confused” when you do the same thing.

    Xena says:
    December 28, 2012 at 5:34 pm

    ( I think it’s jr/mdmcaruder, army002 or papi/LJP by it’s verbiage and writing style)

    Whomever it is, he/she/it makes the rounds. Back around April, Alexander the Great started that shit on Yahoo but I wouldn’t deem him qualified to work for HuffPost of any where else for that matter. Pro-Trayvon people became so frustrated at being impersonated that they stopped posting comments. While the Zidiots may have that goal in mind, they are actually causing harm to the sources who use the number of “hits” and comments to appeal to advertisers.

    If the impostor is working on the inside, there’s more reason to go directly to the corporate counsel.

    Speaking of which, the only way to voice disagreement with how a site operates is to let advertisers know. Maybe a petition to boycott advertisers on HuffPost, Yahoo, and AOL is the only way to make it known to them that they need to take violations of TOS seriously.

    Frederick Leatherman says:

    December 28, 2012 at 5:52 pm

    I notified legal counsel using the email form and asked them to ban the individual and delete all of their comments.

    Xena says:

    December 28, 2012 at 6:03 pm

    Great! Hopefully they will respond and act.

    • Rachael says:

      What is this crap?

    • Xena says:

      And your point???

      • groans says:

        That’s what I mean when I say I admire your patience, Xena!

      • groans & xena……I almost feel like we’re walking on eggshells around here to keep the peace. I haven’t felt like this since I lived with an abusive person. (They keep your mind spinning around because nothing they say makes any logical sense. You find yourself tiptoeing around them so that you don’t incite their fury.) It’s not a comfortable feeling and I felt this from the beginning of this post………hmmmm

        • Xena says:

          groans & xena……I almost feel like we’re walking on eggshells around here to keep the peace. … You find yourself tiptoeing around them so that you don’t incite their fury.) It’s not a comfortable feeling and I felt this from the beginning of this post………hmmmm

          It does appear to be intentional. If things don’t get better, I shall ignore her. Oh — but wait. I think that was one of her accusations. (shrug)

          • @Xena:

            Do not feed the trolls. I see that their “posters” who are posting here who are trying to start trouble. No one on this blog has ever been disrespectful to anyone else except for that other poster who The Professor kicked off months ago. This is the only blog where I feel comfortable at, and I don’t feel that anyone is racist. For heaven’s sake we are all fighting for justice for TM! That is the purpose here, and that is what we have to keep in mind here. The other racists blogs are envious of this blog and that is why they have most likely “planted” other posters on here to stir up trouble. Ignore them all. As for the imposter on HP posting under Professor Leatherman’s name? He has been told to take a flying leap!

          • Xena says:


            Do not feed the trolls.

            I didn’t think of her as a troll — just a person who wanted attention FROM ME. Why me? Or was I mistaken? So I asked, and in return received more unsupported accusations. You are right — we are here for justice for Trayvon. The first comment from that person to me several days ago was a pinpointed compliment that smelled like an ego booster bait. I did not reply — don’t see myself as anyone more than part of the body/team seeking answers and justice for Trayvon.

            The other racists blogs are envious of this blog and that is why they have most likely “planted” other posters on here to stir up trouble. Ignore them all.

            True, and your advice is humbly received and taken.

            As for the imposter on HP posting under Professor Leatherman’s name? He has been told to take a flying leap!

            EXCELLENT! Hopefully, HP will do the right thing.

          • cielo62 says:

            @Xena- oh Xena Dahling! You are EVER so bright and witty! 🙂

            Sent from my iPod

          • Xena says:

            Ceilo62, Cats Rule!

          • cielo62 says:

            LOL! I love those videos! >^..^<

            Sent from my iPod

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            @Xena: When you proposed that perhaps GZ had used blood, obtained, rather than just simply bled from his wounds, I asked “why” would he do that? That was the wrong question! The right question is “What indication do we have that he might have done that?”

            I don’t just dismiss ideas out of hand, simply because I can’t see the reasons or reasoning behind them, at that point in time. I remember and continue to work with these suggestions, until they either dramatically fail, or reveal in support of other material. That appears to be the case here.

            Looking again at the blood rivulets, on the back of GZ’s head. I noted something quite interesting. That blood artifact, appears to have come from the use of, or application of, a discrete amount of blood, rather than a more copious natural blood flow from scalp wounds, allowed to flow under gravity.

            Consider that they go just so far and stop. We’d expect blood, flowing from wounds, would have no discrete length of trails. The blood would flow longer in some trails and shorter in others. Yet these rivulets seem somehow poured on. When the pouring stops so do they. The length of the rivulets, would be accounted for by the emptying of the container, as the pouring went along. Thus the rivulets would get shorter as the container moved along from start to finish.

            This is exactly what we see in the rivulets. The pouring appears to have started on the left and proceeded to the right, getting shorter as the container emptied.

            Good catch, now let’s see what the group can make of it.

          • Xena says:

            This is exactly what we see in the rivulets. The pouring appears to have started on the left and proceeded to the right, getting shorter as the container emptied.

            Good catch, now let’s see what the group can make of it.

            Thank you so much, Lonnie. So this might explain how the wounds were present before GZ left the house on 2/26 without being self-inflicted that night, and the blood dried in such a short length of time when the EMT’s arrived.

            The State needs to look for someone who saw GZ between that Friday and Saturday evening.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            In any event, the basic point I’ve made is, GZ has only 8 minutes from the time he starts his NEN call, until the time the police arrive.

            During that 8 minutes, 4 + minutes are taken up with the NEN call.
            Leaving only 4 minutes, of which less than 2 minutes are unaccounted for.

            The remaining 2 minutes are on the 911 tapes.

            So, there really isn’t all that much time available for all these
            activities being postulated to have taken place.

            I’m surprised that no one has quantified the time by creating a timeline generically, using the available data points that are fixed.
            It’s a very small project, compared to the cctv analysis, eh?

            Point is, there’s no time in there for blood to congeal, from the time of the encounter/confrontation to the time the first photo is taken. The blood should all still be wet and flowing. But the later photos show that the blood in the first photo was already fixed.

            That has to be terribly incriminating for the defense, because it shows that those injuries could not possibly have been caused by any encounter with Trayvon. That is all the jury will need to know. They do not have to be told where those injuries came from, or how they were made. All they need to know is that Trayvon did not cause them. The two photos of the back of GZ’s head, show that it was not possible for Trayvon to have caused those injuries, or the blood should have still been flowing when the first picture was taken.
            The second picture shows it was not!

          • Xena says:

            That has to be terribly incriminating for the defense, because it shows that those injuries could not possibly have been caused by any encounter with Trayvon. That is all the jury will need to know.

            I agree. Maybe by the EMT witness who documented that the blood was dry, and an expert testifying how long that takes, will do the job for the prosecution.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Stay alert because one of the hall marks of a troll is to erect strawmen from your words and then dramatically vanquish them.
            No reasonable person, arguing in opposition, will use such an unfair and deceitful device.

        • cielo62 says:

          @groans, Xena and grey winter sky- Nef05 reminds me a previous poster who was banned. I don’t remember her name. Had a pretty young lady as an avatar. Also doing shady things about the professor and Crane Station behind their backs. Do you remember her name? Same MO.

          Sent from my iPod

    • Xena says:

      My Mars is twine Saturn until the 29th. Along with the rest of the planets, this influence confers patience and willingness to do difficult and exacting work. It’s a good time for doing any work that I have to keep on plugging at, even though it isn’t rewarding.

      So now we know it’s because of the planets — and also why I just cleaned and organized the first drawer of my file cabinet. 🙂

    • Nef05 says:

      @ Rachel
      It’s the SAME thing she kept claiming she was confused about when I did it. But, SUDDENLY she wasn’t so “confused” when she did the same thing! Yeah, I’d call it crap. too.

      • Xena says:

        It’s the SAME thing she kept claiming she was confused about when I did it. But, SUDDENLY she wasn’t so “confused” when she did the same thing!

        Nef05, what did I do? Your last post consisted of other posted comments but you said nothing about what they mean to you. I can’t read your mind.

      • nef05 says:

        Try reading yours,,, It’s not that difficult and it’s not that confusiong. Only to YOU!

      • Xena says:

        Okay Nef05. You have made frivolous allegations that you refuse to explain, so I conclude you just want to be argumentative. So go ahead. Chew me up if it makes you feel better — just make sure you feel better afterwards. I forgive you. Have a wonderful weekend.

      • Nef05 says:

        You accused me of posting a post to you under Looney. Since Loonney was the last replay button, I had no choice, the only thing I missed was the @Xena. The post I illustrated about you was the same. Final reply not the poster, posted to someone else and neglecting an @ sign. They are apples to apples and if you chose not to “understand” them, “Namaste”! But the term abstract vs concrete vividly comes to mind.

  17. Vicky says:

    @nefetari, I have no bone to pick with you. I was answering a comment made by Zena in which my name was mentioned. I appreciate the fact that you alerted the professor to the imposter. However, it seems to me that he has taken action and hopefully, that issue will be resolved. As for the confusion that has occurred here, it can and will resolve itself if people will focus on the topic at hand…confronting racism. IMO, it is an extremely important issue and one that deserves thoughtful consideration. Since I don’t like pizza, I will remain focused on the topic at hand,but I appreciate your advice.
    @ Zena, I hope you enjoy the site, I visited the museum in Minnesota several months ago while attending a conference on cultural and ethnic diversity. It was an incredible experience. The website is packed full of information.

  18. “The Real Eve”. Released in 2002 on the Discovery Channel, narrated by Danny Glover. You Tube has a 2 hour version of it. It is all about our DNA!

  19. Judy75201 says:

    I used to post regularly on HuffPo, and have now responded to a recent post of Nef’s to ask if it is really her posting under her name here. I should have done that from the beginning. I’ll wait for a reply, but judging from the very first sentence about “being first”, I don’t think so.

    • Nefertari05 says:

      1. First sign of a troll is an inability to let go of the purpose of calling someELSE a troll.

      Your qustion is inane. What standard would you prefer for me to prove I am Nef05/Nefertari05? Put it out there troll.

      • cielo62 says:

        Nef05-Trolls also take up tons of time redirecting the conversation away from the blogs purpose. I’d say you are doing quite well. Do you need a mirror?

        Sent from my iPod

  20. blushedbrown says:


    everyone check that little house on your screen that says security check do a quick scan , just to be on the safe side… 😆

  21. colin black says:

    Malisha says:

    December 28, 2012 at 8:35 pm

    And how do we get to read the three drafts Serino prepared before he got the capias issued?
    Probably be in the next document dump/Bernie said he had only just received it from Baez an done copies to give to the defence.He still hadnt read all the papers Baez gave him.But just wanted to highlight the fact.

    That unlike the defences mantra of le not wanting to arrest or charge his client.Serrino wanted to hit him with second degree murder only reduced to manslaughter on the final draft.So the lead detective did indeed think he had probable cause to arrest gz.It was a S A haveing lost a previous S Y G that was reluctant to press charges.So anyone know when the next discovery dump will be.Cant be long as trial is due to comence in less than 6 mnths,,A S Y G hearing will never happen I M O..Its all about getting a rouge jurour or two now thats all the defence has .

    Cant risk aleinateing potentiel jurours with a big fat loss at an imunity hearing or whatever they want to name it.

  22. colin black says:

    Malisha I know he came out with some doozie lies just for the heck off it..Did you hear where he disscussed with Serino I I R Ch how he had decided not to go into L E as a police officer.

    Because of the kids he mentored did not trust the police an it would interfere with his reaching out to them.So he decided that being a Judge was the way to go.He obviously thought he could lie with impunity.After all its not as if anyone was going to check up or verify anything he said.Has it ever been checked out that he even mentored thease kids like he claims .I think it just another one of his made up storys..The only truth out his mouth that night was he was on his way to Target.He was on his way to Target Trayvon

    • ladystclaire says:

      He was not on his way to Target and the police chief and others @ SPD came up with that lie for him. I read that some where shortly after this all happened but, I can’t remember where. it was done due to the fact that they did not want it known, that he was doing NW duties while carrying a gun in the process. “HE WAS NOT GOING TO TARGET”!

      • camanokat says:

        Target isn’t even a real grocery store, at least none of the Targets I’ve visited in WA, OR or CA.

      • Malisha says:

        The reason the police “had a dog in that race” with respect to covering up the fact that Fogen was patrolling with a loaded gun was this: Although they are denying it now and although they have obviously either failed to make required reports of the complaints or SHREDDED THE ONES THEY DID MAKE or doctored the documents, the police received more than one (as in PLURAL) reports of residents in RTL complaining that Fogen was “patrolling with a loaded gun” and it was scaring the residents and it was against NW policy and since the police were instrumental in putting the NW activity into place in RTL, they were asked to make Fogen stop doing that. On March 1, 2012 one of the RTL residents who had made multiple complaints to the police about Fogen patrolling with a loaded gun showed up at an HOA meeting and complained, and was vocal, about the fact that he or she had called the police more than once with complaints about Fogen patrolling with a loaded gun. I can just imagine that person saying: “I KNEW HE WOULD GO AND KILL SOMEBODY!” Then Police Chief Bill Lee and someone else (my guess is Patty Mahaney) “excorted” that complaining HOA member “out of the meeting.” NO RECORD EXISTS in the police files of either the person’s complaints OR the actions of the Chief in escorting the person out of the meeting. I am sure Lee intimidated a witness that day. The witness knew that Fogen patrolled in his car at night looking for people to terrify with his big phall— I mean with his big guh— I mean with his little gun. His little Kal-tec. With its little bullets. In it. Ready. With their little hollow points—

    • Jun says:

      The only honest statements from the defendant thus far are

      (1) Trayvon was running away from him and he pursued and followed the kid

      (2) He got out of his truck

      (3) Trayvon was a black male in his late teens

      (4) He shot the kid

      (5) He sat on the kid’s back, pinning the kid facedown

      (6) His name is Zimmernuts Fogenhats (he whose name shall be forgotten)

      (7) He never agreed with meeting the police at his vehicle

  23. Judy75201 says:

    Can I just say that it may be best to ignore the impersonation? Why give it weight? Thank you.

  24. Malisha says:

    And how do we get to read the three drafts Serino prepared before he got the capias issued?

  25. Malisha says:

    Is that Lance Hudson affiliated with the junior college that Fogen attended before he was kicked out?

    Another question about the college: Is it strange that Fogen didn’t make a peep about being kicked out? He didn’t sue anybody, say anything, Junior didn’t run around screaming “discrimination against my poor brother” and no lawyers threatened any action? I wonder if there is a story there. Maybe he bullied some other student, sexually harassed a student, did something questionable on an exam, pissed off some professors by insisting they were teaching wrong, it really makes me wonder. They just kicked him out and then there was a very long silence and it sank like a stone in water.

    Serino asked him a question about his studies there. He lied and said he was in class (in Feb. 2012) to get a bachelor’s degree since he already had his associate’s degree in criminology. It’s on tape in the interview! He even lied about extraneous stuff that was not germane to the issue of the dead kid and the gun.

    • tinytruthseeker says:

      I have an opinion about Fogen and college….he didn’t care about college. Not the education portion of it at any rate. He cared about the money! Who takes almost 7 years to get a 2 yr degree? Someone who is scamming the financial aid system.

      By the time Fogen was in the muck of his own doing he was raking it in on his paypal site. By the time he murdered Trayvon he already had his last financial aid check in his hot little hands. He didn’t care about being kicked out! He didn’t want to do the work required to begin with! Note that he didn’t fight to complete his studies online? No matter…. Fogen wont need a degree where he is going….

      Of course now he can blame the fact that he has no degree on the school itself for kicking him out.

      • cielo62 says:

        I don’t know about GZ but eventually you DO have to pay back all that financial aid, unless it was a Pell Grant.

        Sent from my iPod

        • tinytruthseeker says:

          I’m sure he had Pell Grants but as we can all see GZ doesn’t really care about owing folks…. I think he did pay some college loans with his first windfall of cash…. but if he hadn’t it wouldn’t have bothered him anymore to owe school loans than it did for him to owe EVERYBODY….it’s everybody elses job to pay GZ’s bills….

          • cielo62 says:

            Lets just say , in my experience, you can’t escape paying back federal student loans. They can seize your bank accounts, tax refunds, garner your wages. It’s a truth about death, taxes and federal student loans!

            Sent from my iPod

      • looneydoone says:

        Somewhere in the transcripts there’s a notation made about his Pell Grant being reduced, but the dollar amount isn’t noted.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I took 18 years to get a BA part-time while working full-time and raising kids. I find your assessment insulting. By the way, it took me a year to earn an MA when my youngest kids were finally HS age.

        • cielo62 says:

          Two Sides- the point appears to be that with GZ, who has no responsibilities at all , can take so long to earn such a minimal degree. He has no kids and Shellie could be supposed to be able to earn a living.

          Sent from my iPod

        • tinytruthseeker says:

          you can be insulted…. but in order to justify it you need to twist my words to suit you…. does GZ have a fulltime job and is he raising children? No? Well then I don’t guess the situation is remotely the same now….

          I admire anyone that goes to school in search of an education….make a better life for themselves and their children…. not so much folks who do it to rape the financial aid system or to do anything possible to keep from working for a living as we have seen that GZ has done his entire life….

      • Cercando Luce says:

        But 2 Sides, we’re talking about Fogen, not you, so no insult to you. We’re kicking around the idea that he and Shellie were living off of student loan/grant money without doing the academic work required of them.

    • Jun says:

      Fogenhats could have also sued ABC, CNN, and load of others. I guess because of the Treehouse ppl he thinks he can get NBC. IMO, I believe they are going for shock factor, like Jerry Springer, so they decide to harass big dogs or any civil rights activist or lawyer who happens to be black

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Interesting, Malisha. I hadn’t realized Fogen lied about his schooling in his interviews with Serino. Good catch.

  26. tinytruthseeker says:

    Racism will end when we stop teaching children that the color of their skin makes them more or less….
    Trayvon Martin could have been a classmate of mine…. I would have been honored to call him my friend….
    Growing up is hard enough without the added burden of racism… when will the grown ups that profess to love and cherish us realize that they are hurting us with their ignorance and intolerance?
    I am the next generation and I have learned from the tragedy of Trayvon’s death that until MY generation becomes colorblind….. we will continue to be lost….I am the next generation and I have learned from the tragedy of Trayvon’s death that until we get rid of the guns…..we will continue to be lost.
    I am the next generation and I am dedicated to shouting it as loud as I can to as many as I can….I am a member of the HUMAN RACE!!!! the human race……..

  27. Jun says:

    Okay so here is the update I got

    Omara now states that the security services were no longer needed, a while back

    and now he has someone for $700 a week… so…

    more proof the defendant was never in danger… even Omara says it himself


    at $700, that is bare minimal security service because security service is expensive, I would say a minimum of $50 per hour, so that is 14 hours a week, only 2 hours a day..

    but that is if that is even the truth

  28. Jun says:

    One thing I noticed about race is…

    if a black guy kills someone and gets a murder charge, he is a thug

    if a white guy kills someone and gets a murder charge, he is a psychopath

    Those are the angles the media usually plays, depending on the race of the killer

  29. grahase says:

    I think this blog has been infiltrated by someone using regular posters names. Things are not what they should be – who is Nefertari05. Seems to be pretty rude and these weird things have only started since this commenter started. Anyone out there.

    • cielo62 says:

      I agree Grahase. I don’t understand the complaint. Many a time I’ve posted a thought only to find it said much earlier (and usually better) up thread, posted before I had read it. Makes me think “cool! I’m in the right track”. I hope no one thinks I’m copying anyone’s ideas, quotes or solutions. If so, my deepest apologies.

      Sent from my iPod

      • Xena says:

        I don’t understand the complaint. Many a time I’ve posted a thought only to find it said much earlier (and usually better) up thread, posted before I had read it. Makes me think “cool! I’m in the right track”. I hope no one thinks I’m copying anyone’s ideas, quotes or solutions. If so, my deepest apologies.

        I am not certain that is that person’s complaint. It seems that she/he is saying that Vicky posted something about the Professor being impersonated on HP, but she posted her first complaint accusing Lady St. Clair of, (for want of a better description), taking credit for it. Then there was a tangent about my not responding to her comments but she quoted two people in that comment which was actually replied to Looney.

        There also seems to be an assumption that each of us read each and every comment.

      • Nefertari05 says:

        1. This “commenter” started last WINTER as “Nef05”.
        Nefertari05 is what I had to change to, after I got hacked and the Prof suggested a name change, when he fixed it. Got a problem with that? BTW – just cause YOU don’t know me, doesn’t mean jack or do you kow everyone like Fogen? Since the “commenter” started last winter
        (sigh, that’s so ridiculous to border on the absurd) People lurk, there is no law they have to post, yet I do. Where were you when I was posting? Since trouble only started since I’ve been commenting and I’ve been commenting for almost a year, seems reasonable to wonder what all HE was doing that year I was posting.

        • cielo62 says:

          My comment was/is innocuous. You have seriously gone off the deep end. No I don’t know you. I thought the purpose here was to sift the evidence and work for justice for Trayvon Martin. You have managed to sidetrack that into a personal hate-fest. Say your piece, move on. I’m done with you.

          Sent from my iPod

      • Vicky says:

        @Zena, I have never posted or read at HP. My one and only comment until now was my bravo to the professor. I do find nefertari’s comment below mine a bit odd along with the subsequent comments. It seems he/she is seeking affirmation for having notified the professor and crane that there is an imposter on HP.
        IMO, the most important thing at this point is not to allow disruption in the topic at hand.
        Below is a link to an interesting and informative site.

        • Xena says:

          @Zena, I have never posted or read at HP.

          Nef may have posted under a comment to you, but not intended to be for you. I think that is part of the misunderstanding and why she has now involved me because I asked what she wanted from me based on a comment posted to me — but it didn’t appear to be about anything I wrote. (shrugging shoulders) Yeah, odd things are happening here.

          I’m going to now read the link you provided. Thanks.

          • blushedbrown says:


            before you go read have a laugh on me… 🙂

          • Xena says:

            ROFLMAO!!! I imagine that some trolls I’ve come across look just like that too.

          • blushedbrown says:

            I am all smiles to hear you laughing!!

          • Xena says:

            I am all smiles to hear you laughing!!

            Thank you blushedbrown. Since the mass killing in CT, it’s been hard for me to smile. Even on Christmas I broke down with the thought that instead of wrapping presents, parents were burying their children. Then there is the story of the 10 yr old in Vegas who was last seen Dec. 21st, and body was found today. People have gone MAD!!

          • blushedbrown says:

            I couldn’t comment on it. I left the blogs for awhile. Couldn’t stop crying on the senseless killing of our children.

          • Xena says:

            I couldn’t comment on it. I left the blogs for awhile. Couldn’t stop crying on the senseless killing of our children.

            I read news articles about it, but after reading about 5 comments to some articles, I stopped reading the comments because they turned to gun control. My heart is directed towards the families of the victims.

            Those little ones who survived will live with hearing those gun shots. Although they were instructed to close their eyes while leaving the school building, some peeked. It is sad that the first lesson in death comes at your school, of your classmates, siblings, teachers, and a bloody mess.

            Even the police who arrived, who are adults, were overcome by what they saw.

          • cielo62 says:

            No, people have always been mad. It’s just that now we have mass media to report stuff we never would have heard about before.

            Sent from my iPod

        • Xena says:

          Below is a link to an interesting and informative site.

          Vicky, I bookmarked that site. It’s massive and very interesting. Thanks for recommending it.

      • Nefertari05 says:

        @ Vicky, Those that speak the truth become targets. This is not in dispute. The only computer part is having to replace it and the “cool” is not at all. I don’t need the Trayvon case to be “cool”. I’m angry/furious because it happened to me. BOTH Witness 8 has been harrassed. Reacerrodig and Morpheus have been harrassed. Crane Station and the professor have been haiassess with details so shocked, someone should have been shot. What do they have in common – THE TRUTH THAT CANNOT BE REFUTED.

        So when we’re talking about a disabled parent, or a child – sorry, I don’t think it’s “cool” and I think it’s important enought to take measures to break into the website. CLEARLY, you think you should wait until everyone is in emergency. Maybe grab yourself some pizza.

      • cielo62….I have also done the same thing. I think we all understand how that happens without feeling offended. Shouldn’t the Prof. be able to see where our posts originate from and be able to detect someone who really isn’t who they say they are? (I’m somewhat of a luddite and really don’t understand all of that…. 😳 …. lol

        • cielo62 says:

          Grey winter sky- exactly. The angry vehemence spouted by neft-whatever is both hurtful and distractful. I don’t know if it is a troll but it sure does act like one.

          Sent from my iPod

    • Jun says:

      I think so too. There are people pretending to be other posters on here. It is a good idea to change your password.

      • Xena says:

        I think so too. There are people pretending to be other posters on here. It is a good idea to change your password.

        That may be true, but it also might be that they came in nice and clean until picking the right time to disrupt. In the alternative, they are trying to drink up the left-over, spiked eggnog before it goes bad.

      • Nefertari05 says:

        No, it’s not. Ask the professor since mine got hacked last winter and I had to change my UNAME, not p=word.

        ask him.

        And I KNOW how to tell I’ve been hacked because I’ve seen it to myself and unitron. One has to wonder how long these people questioning me have been here, since I’ve been here since last winter….

      • Jun says:

        I have no idea. Only the professor would know, since he has access to the IP’s of each post. I could only check if I had the equipment to trace IP’s and proxies of each post to find out if it is the same person posting. I just think so because some of the posts sound very Zimbot.

    • tinytruthseeker says:

      Whoever that is they need to take a break from the nonsense…. I am sure the Professor appreciates any and all support in removing the imposter; however, gibberish and crazy talk do nothing to lend credibility to our plight!

    • Judy75201 says:

      From the moment I first saw its post, I knew something was up, which is why I posted a simple “lol” response (and I rarely post on this board). That entity is trolling.

    • Xena says:

      @grahase. Thanks for noticing that.

    • Nefertari05 says:

      1. You don’t know me. You don’t know who I am or what I know.
      2. I was the one who revealed the motion for #9 was before the appeal deadline, last summer.So he couldn’t appeal even if he wanted to/
      3. I was the one who revealed that the “wristlock” in a self-defense or SYG rendered the self-defense verdict moot.
      4. I was the one who discovered and posted the impersonation @ 10pm LAST night. Thought the Professor may not have like it, there is NO QUESTION that he would have learned of it from ME first.
      5. I was the one who had an interesting debate, that he won, about the key/flashlight at the T.
      6. I’ve had many discussions with Racer, that I cannot divulge, but have tirned out to be TRUE.
      7. It was LAST March that group of us realised the time was off, and he couldn’t have done what he said.
      8. I have at least 6 months of cred, but you take the word of a troll(google her name)

      Guess what, napoleon – If the professor what’s to kick me out, so be it. But YOU don’t have that power.

      I know racer, faux, looney, abbj I was here when MagedFox was banned last summer + pluston on lurkers that I personally recommended to this site.

  30. colin black says:

    Re the time discrepency in gz version of events an the gravity defying blood trails on his head he has an answer to all of it

  31. colin black says:

    grahase…Ive seen a user name Lance Hudson over at O S I reposted one of his comments as it had info about the security company sueing gz an his defence for an unpaid bill.Dont no anything about him or her though.

  32. Xena says:

    HuffPost is not my favorite place to be. The times I’ve visited there have been to read articles. I seldom read comments. Because of some filthy person impersonating the Professor there, I put on my hip boots and went over — found the filthy impersonator and here is a link to that person’s comments:

    I do not have an account with HP, but for those who do, you might consider responding to the impersonator that they are an impersonator.

    • looneydoone says:

      The imposter “Professor Leatherman” has been reported by numerous huff-poop members (“report abusive profile”) and are replying to it’s filth with comments such as “you’re a fraud”, “you’ve been reported” etc..and still no action taken by Eh Oh Hell/huff-poop. It *joined* huff-poop yesterday. When I che ked this morning it had;
      0 fans
      13 comments AND
      a level 1 moderator badge on it’s profile page
      I just checked again, and the mod badge is gone, but the profile page reveals it’s being allowed to continue posting comments, unchecked (published immediately, not sent to pendatory and/or deleted for violations of TOS and Guidelines)
      This suggests to me it has *special insider privileges*
      ( I think it’s jr/mdmcaruder, army002 or papi/LJP by it’s verbiage and writing style)

      • Xena says:

        ( I think it’s jr/mdmcaruder, army002 or papi/LJP by it’s verbiage and writing style)

        Whomever it is, he/she/it makes the rounds. Back around April, Alexander the Great started that shit on Yahoo but I wouldn’t deem him qualified to work for HuffPost of any where else for that matter. Pro-Trayvon people became so frustrated at being impersonated that they stopped posting comments. While the Zidiots may have that goal in mind, they are actually causing harm to the sources who use the number of “hits” and comments to appeal to advertisers.

        If the impostor is working on the inside, there’s more reason to go directly to the corporate counsel.

        Speaking of which, the only way to voice disagreement with how a site operates is to let advertisers know. Maybe a petition to boycott advertisers on HuffPost, Yahoo, and AOL is the only way to make it known to them that they need to take violations of TOS seriously.

      • Nefertari05 says:

        First, false. I posted to the imposters’ original posts and no one would remotely regard me as shy, intimidated, or refusing to post out of frustration. Have you read my posts? Do they LOOK shy, intimidated?

        “Speaking of which, the only way to voice disagreement with how a site operates is to let advertisers know. Maybe a petition to boycott advertisers on HuffPost, Yahoo, and AOL is the only way to make it known to them that they need to take violations of TOS seriously.”

        Which I had already done. Thanks. Think you could talk to me a little less like you don’t feel like acknowleging situations that I posted that you FREELY discuss, oh… and that you’re talking to a person with a 152 IQ and a post grad degree?

        “BTW”” speaking of which, I sent them a post 40 mins ago or so, in which i told then I would send the post to legal, doj ( post said he wouldn’t mind killing 100 black kids, if it meant he didn’t have to kill ONE of his). Also, Holder, Obama, black caucus, progessive caucus, Jesse, Al, SPLC, NAACP, Oprah, Will & Jada, Morgan Freeman, Sam Jackson, Denzel, my Ph.D father , my 2 bros in law who are a lawyer and a judge, respectively.every anchor on MSNBC and my own relatives who are LE/Judges and my ex’s relatives who are lawyers and civil rights attys. Maybe even Crump and Jackson. (hill harper, Roland Martin, even Dwayne Johnson…..And posted on facebook.

        Know how I know it was effective? The post was deleted from both the page and the social comments. We now have a new strategy. But, the social page is still up. Connections…..

        • Xena says:

          @Nefertari05. When you quote several people in a reply, it can be confusing. For instance, you replied to Looneydoone, but quoted me;

          “Speaking of which, the only way to voice disagreement with how a site operates is to let advertisers know. Maybe a petition to boycott advertisers on HuffPost, Yahoo, and AOL is the only way to make it known to them that they need to take violations of TOS seriously.”

          Then you wrote:
          >blockquote> Which I had already done. Thanks. Think you could talk to me a little less like you don’t feel like acknowleging situations that I posted that you FREELY discuss, oh… and that you’re talking to a person with a 152 IQ and a post grad degree?

          Did you intend this for me? If so, do I understand correctly that you feel that unless I find, read, and respond to your comments, that you find it disrespectful?

      • Nefertari05 says:

        That’s because loony had the last reply and that response was for you. Now you don’t understand that the responses under the last reply stack belong to the person it refers to, as in the case of a QUOTE? Seriously? And remember I’ve seen you response to such a quote before.

        Stop, just please stop. I’m asking for the team and the professor/crane.I’m not insecure and their peace of mind is more important. I will be the one to break down and ask, but I will NOT ask again.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Xena, thanks for all that you do in advocating for justice. I have always thought highly of your posts!

      • groans says:

        @Xena: I’ve always found you to be kind and responsive to comments I’ve posted. I also find your comments to be open-minded, rational, and well-thought-through. I admire your patience.

        • Xena says:

          @Xena: I’ve always found you to be kind and responsive to comments I’ve posted. I also find your comments to be open-minded, rational, and well-thought-through.

          I humbly thank you, and I feel the same about others here.

          I admire your patience.

          Patience? That’s how most people see Aquarians but the truth is, it’s interest and curiosity. Unless I’m interested or curious, my patience level is about 2 minutes. If I could move faster, my patience level would probably be less. 🙂

    • Nefertari05 says:

      Frederick Leatherman says:

      December 28, 2012 at 1:04 pm

      I am getting extremely frustrated by the HuffPo moderator’s refusal to respond to my requests to ban the person posing as me using the name Professor Leatherman and to delete all of their comments.

      This situation is beyond ridiculous.

      • grahase says:

        Why are you quoting the Professors comment verbatim when it is just up thread.

      • grahase says:

        Nefertari05 – I am really not understanding your comment upthread. Please explain the issue.

      • Rachael says:

        I’m not really understanding any of her/his comments.

      • SearchingMind says:

        @ Rach & Grahase

        I still miss Ed Nelson here. So guys, leave Nefetari05 alone.You do not have to react to what she is saying if you do not understand it. Just let her be. I think Xena is handling the situation quite professionally.

    • grahase says:

      I went there yesterday because I wanted to read about Trayvon Martins Petition being the most popular petition this year – and the comments by one Lance Hudson were way, way, out-of-bounds. I have seen his name before. Anyone know his or her or its history.

    • cielo62 says:

      Where do guys go? Just to Black Voices? It’s sad to see how they are on that page while I find their Gay Voices to be very supportive. That’s why I go to HP.

      Sent from my iPod

      • Xena says:

        Where do guys go? Just to Black Voices? It’s sad to see how they are on that page while I find their Gay Voices to be very supportive. That’s why I go to HP.

        Back around April when I first went to Black Voices and ventured to read comments, I discovered it was not just Black voices and left. Seems as though it is worst now than it was then. Other than reading an article now and then, I don’t go there.

    • @Xena:

      It is probably GZ or his dumb daddy! Maybe even RZ! Don’t worry about this fake impersonator. I will take care of them! I have never been banned from HP and I say exactly what I wish! I have never seen that poster but when I encounter he/she/it they will taken to task.

      • Xena says:

        When I checked, someone commented to them about impersonating the Professor, so there are others who will have your back. I just might register myself. They’re on the Zimmerman must remain in County article.

  33. sweetiepie says:

    I was watching the old movies about narcissistic killer Betty Broderick and went on You tube to see what happened at her parole hearing in 2010 (denied) and OMG! I almost died from laughing!

    She, too, claims her dead husband raised his hands and said “You got me!”. Hahahahah……this is probably where George got it from.

    The line starts at 1:05 of the video. It’s unbelievable!

  34. Nefertari05 says:

    I need to know if Racerrodig, Morpheus and other Trayvon Fact tellers received some sort of “banned notice” or if comments or articles simply didn’t appear around election, no notice. It’s important!

    FTR – the latter happened to me, downloaded but wouldn’t install IE8/9, blog comments came up, but not articles like TM. Google Chrome and mozilla firefox were corrupted, Java=french, Adobe – corrupted. Access to program and system files = refused. A slow acting virus was downloaded with a program update (my bad, I saw the difference in the two download sizes). Started freezing, very slow, up to blue screen fatal errors. Scanning, Norton power eraser, rebooting, restoring (one restore point, should be several, that a clue they don’t want you to go back in time before the virus upload). I even went back to Factory Settings( F8), killed my C: Drive because “factory settings” by definition, go back prior to virus download.

    If you are a Trayvon Truth teller, with experience or proof, they feel threatened because the can’t counter you. If your computer is acting up, PLEASE, see a tech (if you have Norton Virus protection, you can get live remote service. Insist on it, you pay for it with separate virus add that cost $10 at time of purchace Tell them to check program files and or system files. Those are the two I forgot and at least there free with the Virus add.

    For those who think I’m over the top, please understand this. Both #8s were harrassed by computer to intimidate them from testifying the TRUTH. LLMPapa has been harrassed for telling the truth, but never so much as on HP when Japanese Girlsan announced on Christmas that he had two new videos out – Truth. I’vehad my computer destroyed (more than once) because I post the TRUTH with proof. Racer posted truth and snippets of info that later came into fuition (more than one). We all know the Prof (and Crane Station) post the TRUTH. We who “see” the truth, “don’t” see the truth? How does that happen? Please, with all due respect – explain it to me. I honestly don’t understand how this is not as clear as chrystal.

    Is there anyone who doesn’t see the computer is the common weapon? Does anyone not realise the Truth (not opinion) is their “enemy”. Is there anyone who hasn’t realised the Prof is a very real target, unless it’s stageringly easy to purchase a new computer and GDI why should he have to

    I know, lets all stand on the (virtual) sidelines and wring our hands in “abject despair” and lament “If only SOMEONE had told us.

    • seallison says:

      All I can say is that my computer freezes each and every time I log on to this blog. I simply unplug my laptop and start it up again. It usually takes 3 tries before I am successful. Could this be part of it. I know nothing about this stuff. I just changed my Uname, password, and gravatar. I hope this works.

      • Nefertari05 says:

        Try this – go to the upper right corner and click on the “spocket”/bolt looking thing. Next click on internet options. Not ABOUT internet options, just “internet options”. Panel opens and click on “advanced”. Click RESTORE (not reset) advanced settings, when you apply and ok at the bottom, turn it off and reboot. If RESTORE doesn’t apply, try RESET which is more difficult. But, if you know you have a virus Norton has a free powerful rootkit eraser you could try. Let me know if it works. I know some other things to.

    • SearchingMind says:

      LOL (!).

      Thanks for fighting hard for Trayvon and protecting our professor. You are a true soldier of justice.

  35. Nefertari05 says:

    Prof Leatherman have you deleted the note indicating donations graciously accepted, but not required and those who cannot afford to donate in these times are equally welcome? Gracious acceptance and no donations required should be hlpful in the context of the FAKE posts. I my self only donated $10 recently. I wanted to make it more, because I (personally value) the time and effort you both put it. Unfortunately, I had to buy a new laptop this month and disposable income was low. I will donate again from my OWN sense of value,as it is deserved and was NEVER solicited from those who couldn’t afford it, but were still welcome.

  36. HP’s response when I wrote to them about the fake Professor Leatherman :

    Thank you for your concern, however we allow our users to choose any username they desire so long as it is appropriate and they are not directly impersonating another person in their posts. The username could easily be one they use on other sites and is their common username, or perhaps they are also a professor with the last name Leatherman, but in either case it is ok for them to have it.

    Thanks again, and sorry for the inconvenience

    • I notified them again today that someone is impersonating me with intent to discredit me and the work I do with my blog. I asked them to ban the person. They have not responded to my requests.

      • I am getting extremely frustrated by the HuffPo moderator’s refusal to respond to my requests to ban the person posing as me using the name Professor Leatherman and to delete all of their comments.

        This situation is beyond ridiculous.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          It’s clear that that guy isn’t using his first amendment or any other rights in using the name he chose. Because he uses words that Professor used here on his blog, when talking about what the future might be and perhaps monetizing the blog in some way. He is clearly, thereby and therefore, impersonating Fredrick Leatherman who is this blogs owner, and is not just someone who is using a randomly selected or otherwise previously used username.

      • Malisha says:

        Shall we start taking the handles of all the other posters there, changing them a bit, and signing in and giving opinions those “close but not equivalent names” would not appreciate?

      • Cercando Luce says:

        Great idea Malisha. I will be Sra. Gladys Zimmerman. Just watch what I have to confess. And I’ll be Robert Zimmerman Jr. Guess what I have to confess to my loyal HuffPo audience.

        As long as I’m at it, I might as well be Arianna Stassinopoulos Huffington to boot.

      • ladystclaire says:

        Hello Professor and, I must tell you that when trying to deal with the folks at the HP you are just beating a dead horse. who ever is in control of that site just don’t seem to have any morals at all. they allow some bloggers to say and have comments posted that shouldn’t be and, they also allow them to have other people banned for no reason what so ever. I have seen several comments there today by who ever is using your name and, it seems to me that something can be done about this. if it were me, I would see about taking legal action against HP. they don’t care what these people say or do.

        who ever this person is, they should be banned but, they will only be allowed to get another account using another name. if they don’t care how some of their bloggers are talking about the victim in all of this and posting it for them, then why should they care about one of them using your good name. smdh

      • looneydoone says:

        Some of fogen’s biggest supporters on the AOL/huffingtontreehouse are moderators. I also have it on good authority huff-poop utilizes inside agent provocateurs as a $$$ revenue generator (heightens interests and # of clicks=higher ad prices)
        You might want to consider contacting their legal dept instead of the”report abusive profile” exercise in futility

        • Xena says:

          Yes, Looneydoone. I agree. Posting under other handles impersonating others is returning evil for evil. We need to be above reproach.

          If anything, post to the impersonator and let it be known they are impersonating. That way, others will not be misled and the person exposed for being an asshole.

      • Nefertari05 says:

        Malisha says:

        December 28, 2012 at 12:19 pm

        Hey let’s all blog in to HP using variations of the name “George.Zimmerman” such as “George.Mycool.Zimmerman” and “Cheorge.Lostmycool.Zimmerman” and etc. etc. and let’s go ahead in there and exercise our first amendment rights in the name of a descent American.

        Nefertari05 says:

        December 28, 2012 at 1:39 pm
        … @Malisha – LOVE your posts. From the 313 so they hit home hard with me. In this case, however, I’d like to believe we are better than them.

        “Xena says:

        December 28, 2012 at 4:22 pm

        Yes, Looneydoone. I agree. Posting under other handles impersonating others is returning evil for evil. We need to be above reproach…”

        My, my my – such an ORIGINAL thought. Interesting she has not interested in debating me, acknowledging that I was the second on the case. Lady st claire issues a warning about a hearing, but mine speciified an imposter, impersonating the Prof, she never bother to even acknowledge it, even thought there was proof. But she has NO problem coopting MY concepts, in this concept – like she used it in this concept.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Xena, when did I issue a warning about a hearing? I don’t know what you are talking about here. I just told the professor that I has seen several comments posted by the person who is using his name. I also told him that I would try legal means in order to get this stopped and that is it. you seem to have me mixed up with someone else here.

        • Xena says:

          @Xena, when did I issue a warning about a hearing?

          Uh? Something is going wrong here. It might be due to some comments being posted under one unassociated without doing and @ or quoting what is being responded to.

          I don’t know what you are talking about here.

          That makes 2 of us. LOL!!

          I just told the professor that I has seen several comments posted by the person who is using his name. I also told him that I would try legal means in order to get this stopped and that is it. you seem to have me mixed up with someone else here.

          Ahhh. Are you referring to my comment to Nef. asking for her to explain her complaint?

      • Nefertari05 says:

        My complaint is that this is not the first time you have coopted my comments, posted then as yours, without the common courtest of a bare mention (thks pster who said this). My complaint, as illustrated below is we are not your peons. We have good ideas, too. Sometimes before you do. We deserve the common courtesy NOT to be talked to like the palace maid. Or, perhaps you just don’t understand that “I’d like to believe we are better than them.” is the same as “Posting under other handles impersonating others is returning evil for evil. We need to be above reproach…” under the concept of posting under Fogen Supporter’s names.

      • Nefertari05 says:

        The answer to the qestion was CLEARLY in the above post. I BEGGED you to stop this stuff. I clearly stated I would not ask again.

        Look on my works, ye mighty….and DESPAIR!!!
        Percy Bysshe Shelley

      • looneydoone says:

        As of this moment 11:00am 29 dec 2012 the imposter “Professor Leatherman” is still posting comments on AOL/huff-po
        Of interest is the imposter has a new fan…LetJusticePrevail (the one many, including racerrodig have pegged as being papi zimmerman)

        • jm says:

          lonneydoone: “As of this moment 11:00am 29 dec 2012 the imposter “Professor Leatherman” is still posting comments on AOL/huff-po Of interest is the imposter has a new fan…LetJusticePrevail (the one many, including racerrodig have pegged as being papi zimmerman)”

          Someone did this to me on Click Orlando even copying my avatar. I gave up posting anywhere but here.

          I think it must be GZ and family members who have nothing better to do than patrol chat boards and do stupid stuff from their hiding place. No jobs and no responsibility gives them a lot of free time.

          To me, it is a sign of desperation when they sink that low to assume someone’s identity or even people like Lance Hudson on Orlando Sentinel who posts day and night and under multiple names like Manuel Jesus. Who has the time or inclination to do this but the Zimmerman clan?

  37. Tee says:

    Being blind to racism is something a lot of people in this country Are guilty of. ” I didn’t choose you for the position because you were over qualified and I need you to handle things for me were you’re at now.” Try training someone with less experience than you less education than you to a job that you were promised. Being followed around a store while the clerk pretends to dust the shelf or fix the clothing. Try something as simple as walking in a room wearing you natural hair, the hair you were born with and see the looks you get. As blacks they want us to conform to what they see as normal or expectable looks and behaviors. We as black people should not have to put on docker pants and a polo shirt and loafer in order not to be looked at as a thug. I am a black educated women, I wear my hair natural I dress the way I want and when I can’t walk into a store without some fool following me I know racism is alive and well.

    • Rachael says:

      I know it is too. My son (biracial) and daughter-in-law (white) live in a small white rural community where they have been stopped on 3 occasions and my daughter-in-law asked if she is alright when they have been out walking, once even with their kids! Just because she is walking with – gasp – a black man, who happens to be her HUSBAND!!!!

    • Cercando Luce says:

      I’m Caucasian and have been followed in fancier grade boutiques, usually by a cleaning woman who ostentatiously cleans any item I touch. Including in places where I have bought before. God knows why (although the natural hair might be a cue– I don’t dye). Maybe they do that to every 3rd person who enters, just to get perverted pleasure in putting-down others thinking it lifts them up. The owner/manager can be gently told, “How can I enjoy shopping here when your employee is following me close enough to pick my pocket?”

      The funny part is that you can occasionally observe the highly processed persons who fit the clerks ideal of customer, stealing the merchandise.

      • grahase says:

        With a Pictish ancestry, red hair and blue eyes, I can only imagine the effects of racism one must endure. I have, however, felt discrimination and prejudice such as Cercando Luce has described. As a tourist in London and stopping in at a high-end shop, I learned very quickly that I was not the type of customer they wanted milling about in the store. It was not about skin colour, it was about the way I was dressed – blue jeans, sandals, and a tee-shirt. Totally acceptable elsewhere. Yet, it did not show the CLASS of customer they wanted. And yes, I was followed around the store, made to feel uncomfortable and unwelcome until I couldn’t stand it any more and left.

        You see, their tactics do work. Keeps everyone in their place, doesn’t it.

      • gbrbsb says:

        You´ve just hit on the class hierarchy we have. I think it may even be more prevalent than racism here and it doesn´t just stick with the “upper class”. All classes are classist above the ones they consider lower down!

        BTW since the last census it´s now official, in London minority races are the majority and they have their own classes too.

      • seallison says:

        gbrbsb – We have just had the same thing happen here in Canada. Canada is a bilingual country as you may know – French and English. Surprisingly, in the last census, the city where I live, French came in third. English, then the Filipino languages, then French. Caused an uproar for a few days. Times they are a-changin.

        I have a few god-children (from same mom and dad) who have a very mixed ancestry – British, French, Ukranian, Polish, and Filipino. Wow. When asked what nationality they are – they quite proudly reply — Canadian! Now, that is what it is all about. True Canadians, fer sure, eh!

    • Malisha says:

      Tee, Tonya Pinkins had an interesting experience involving “clerkstalking” or “shopping while Black” in a designer shop in NY (can’t remember the designer, but one she likes a lot) and they didn’t know who she was and she was being followed around as you describe. She threw a fit right in the store and called her agent and let herself be heard complaining about the treatment she was receiving — and she used some rather unequivocal words! To make a long story short, they gave her a LIFETIME 15% discount on all their clothes by way of “apology.” I commented, “Girl, you were lucky they didn’t just have you arrested on the spot for creating a disturbance!” She was wearing a purple coat by that designer when we had that conversation.

      • @Malisha:

        The same exact thing happened to Oprah Winfrey here in NYC. Oprah was in town and went over to 5th Avemue to shop at a high end boutique. Oprah was dressed up but arrived in her limo. The store would not buzz her in because they did not recognize her. It was only until she called them from her limo, and inquired of why she was denied entry into the store, that they came out on the Avenue and let her into the store! Even a rich billionaire like Oprah, couldn’t gain access to a store. Oprah, related this story a few years back.

      • Malisha says:

        Yeah, and Tonya has been on Oprah’s show and Oprah named her “one of Ten American Women who will take your breath away” and still they have these experiences. When I’m in NY with Tonya, she can get off after her show on Broadway, come out the stage door, sign a few autographs, and then I (white) have to be the one to catch a cab so both of us can get in. If she waves for a cab we wait a looooooooot longer.

      • Jun says:

        Some of the high end stores, are like that

        Not all of them have race perceptions though, they treat anyone white, black, or whatever like that

        They are just high end stores, it is the way they are

      • seallison says:

        Jun- Definition of lunge:

        A sudden forward thrust of the body, typically with an arm outstretched to attack someone or seize something.

        Make a lunge: “the guests lunged at the food”.


        There is no evidence that Fogen lunged anywhere.

        If you can lead me to the evidence, I will apologize. I DO know the meaning of the word…and now, you do.

      • Jun says:

        I’d appreciate it, if you stopped pretending to be other posters

    • Jun says:

      I do not feel that being followed in a store is always because of race

      I know some people feel that way but…

      people of all races shoplift and the security watches everyone

      Yes there are some that will specifically follow certain races of people but not all of them follow or watch based on race and if they do so, they are not good security because it would make it much easier for white thieves to steal without being noticed

      As for dressing to look like a thug, I do not understand how one does that to be honest

      • cielo62 says:

        Jun- “dressing like a thug”- just about any middle class teen , REGARDLESS of color, dresses with snap backs, swag, low slung pants and prominent underwear. All that, I don’t mind. But the “attitude” I could do without.

        Sent from my iPod

      • Jun says:


        90’s hip hop fashion is considered thug wear?

        The attitude can be crude but that is so silly to think that

        Most thugs and gangsters I have heard about around my neighborhood wore garish and expensive dress suits, no matter the race of the person but so did doctors, lawyers, and every other professional, including women

        The really petty thugs would just dress in whatever clothes they had.

        • cielo62 says:

          LOL! Depends on your definition if thug. “Thugwear” is the “gangsta” look, along with the crude misogynistic homophobic language. It’s Hollywood. It’s theatre. A real “thug” is a lawbreaking criminal, will dress in whatever. Including suit and tie.

          Sent from my iPod

      • grahase says:

        Jun – I don’t think you are getting it. Some of your comments appear to show ignorance about what racism is. Your views are sometimes wrong, embellished, insensitive, and you don’t even acknowledge someone pointing it out to you. You just carry on. You write as though you are an expert on most everything – and – by your comments – you are not. Chill sometimes. Before you click post, think about what you are actually saying. You are not black and will never know what being black in America means. You are not a lawyer and it is an insult when you contradict what the Professor writes in response to a legitimate question. Please stop.

      • Jun says:

        I never claimed to be an expert I just state the obvious from the evidence and what I think it may be

        There is nothing insensitive about what I wrote here

        I think you are overreacting

        i do not see where exactly I am arguing with the professor and I will write whatever I want, under the professor’s rules, since this is his blog

        other than that, I have a freedom of free speech, so…. I will not stop posting my opinion or take on anything

        I do not feel that I have disrespected anyone here nor have seen any proof that I have

        • cielo62 says:

          Jun- ignore logi as well. If his/her comments don’t enrich you, ignore them.

          Sent from my iPod

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          I will say that whenever you did say something that could give offense, you, at least had good and sufficient reason for saying so. And of course, we all grew up in different areas and times and conditions. I, myself, know of periods of time and places where, what are racial slurs have been taken as terms of endearment.

          In my sophomore year we had a Cuban come into the class, he was fat and jovial, his nickname? The Cuban. We had a Japanese guy, who was pleasant and warm, he was very popular with everyone, his nickname? The Jap! We were taking a pejorative and turning it into something nice. “The Jap”, made you think you were going to meet this perfectly terrible fellow, when in fact you were going to meet the exact opposite, so it was sort of fun to surprise the uninitiated. Even he called himself that and took pride in his nickname, probably because of the way we all laughed whenever we used it, because it was so funny because of the juxtaposition of good/bad. About mid term, however, when the adults got wind of the nickname, they informed us it was hurtful and nasty, so we stopped using it. When he asked us why, we had to tell him that his nickname was hurtful to him. He was saddened by having to let it go, because he was having fun with it too. Oh well, ignorance is bliss as they say.

          So, I don’t doubt that any pejorative has not done some service as a term of endearment, because human nature is more often than not, perverse, and derives fun from being ironic and such.

      • Jun says:

        Also WTF are you talking about?

        Where exactly am I arguing with the Professor?

        Why is it getting your panties in a bunch, when I write my opinion on something?

        Why do I need to be lawyer, when there are common sense answers to certain things?

        Whether or not I am a lawyer, which I have stated many times I am not, it does not necessarily mean that I do not understand the law and statutes

        Whether I am an expert of not, most of the stuff I write is simple common sense…

        I do not get what your beef is…

        It is the same when you argue with me about the screams… it is obviously Trayvon

        You argue with me about lunging… when the defendant lunged at the kid the whole 15 minutes or so before killing the kid

        What does anything I wrote have to do with only black people would understand?

      • Jun says:


        I know what you are saying. I will end up doing so but was just curious what their problem with me was exactly.

        • cielo62 says:

          Thank you , Jun. Personally I love your insights. I don’t know logi’s beef. But it’s not worth getting your panties in a twist either.

          Sent from my iPod

      • Rachael says:

        @ Jun – As for dressing to look like a thug, I do not understand how one does that to be honest

        In reality, they don’t. Again, it is stereotype and racism. People have a certain idea of what a “thug” looks like and how they dress, and when they dress that way, they are automatically a “thug,” whatever way it is they perceive. Some perceive it as hoodies and low pants, some perhaps garish and expensive dress suits – and when they assume that someone dressed as such, it is stereotype, and if they think that it is only black people and therefore they must be a thug because they are black and dressed like that, it is, IMO, racism. When they ignore the white kids who dress in hoodies and low pants, when they ignore the white people who are doctors and lawyers in dress suits and say it is just “fashion” or professional dress if it is whites but thugs if they are black…

        you get the picture.

      • groans says:

        @Grahase – You said (in part) to Jun:

        “Chill sometimes. Before you click post, think about what you are actually saying.”

        I would suggest that you follow your own advice. Your attack on Jun added nothing of value, and your insults were disturbing to this reader.

      • JUN says:


        you are right

        I was simply trying to clarify but yes I can just leave it

        and thanks…

        I simply apply my understanding of science and common sense to everything

      • Jun says:


        That is my point

        if you think about it, thugs dress exactly the same as everyone else

        that is what I dont understand

        and I agree with your assertion

        it should not be down to race but actions of certain individuals and sometimes can denote a group if it is a gang or mafia

        from my observation, there is no certain race that is a thug, a thug can be of any race of people

        For example…

        Capone = Italian Gangster

        Whitey = Irish Gangster from Boston

        Broken Tooth K = Macau Gangster of the Triads

        Frank Lucas = Black American Gangster

      • seallison says:

        Obviously being followed in a store is not always about race – a couple of examples have just been provided.

        Jun – you may think I am being hard on you, but you do state the obvious and quite frankly, I get aggravated by it at times. It is as though you are interpreting for a group of morons.

        This may just be my opinion. If it continues to bother me, I will just read past your comments and we will both be happy.

      • seallison says:

        If a person is dressed in a suit like a doctor or lawyer, how would anyone know they were a thug. I think a thug is not a thug until they commit a crime – no matter what they are wearing.

        A violent person, esp. a criminal.

        A member of a religious organization of robbers and assassins in India, suppressed by the British in the 1830s.

        hoodlum – killer – cutthroat – gangster – murderer

        Dressed like a thug does not even make sense.

      • Tee says:

        Well jun, you are not black, so I can assure you that you have no idea what I am talking about. You can have all the black friends you want, you can even be married to a black person but until you live in black skin you wouldn’t understand. Your comment proves that you really haven’t a clue, yes they should follow all people, do they NO, they follow us. You don’t know what it’s like to get in an elevator and a non black grab their purse and move into the corner like somehow you are going to attack them on a public elevator. Untill someone follow you around Walmart, or a hair supply store, locks their car door, move to the other side of the sidewalk when they see you approaching, critique your hair, & make fun of your body and print an ad in a magazine stating why you are not considered beautiful, you my dear will never understand. They follow us for the same reason X followed Trayvon, we are naturally “suspicious people”, they follow us BECAUSE WE ARE BLACK.

        thug wear is what got Trayon targeted, it wasn’t the clothing it was the boy in the clothing that made the normal khaki pants and hoodie thug wear. He didnt wear his pants around his waist, his hoodie was to big and this made him look “menacing”
        To X. ” thug wear: clothing to large for the body, pants hanging down below the waist while your skin is black, like it or not this is what people think thugs look like.

      • Jun says:

        They dont only follow black people

        I already admit that some do only follow black people only, but not all follow strictly black people in the stores

        The rest of the stuff you wrote is not even worth arguing with you over

        The simple fact remains, race has nothing to do with criminal behavior, and any race, including black people, mixed race, or whatever race you are can be guilty of stealing from a store…

        they watch everyone and if you actually believe they do not watch non black people in the stores for theft, you are the one that is inanely blind to the facts

        nothing I wrote has anything to do with knowing what it is like to be black or marrying a black woman or having black friends

        You got to be ridiculous if you believe an intelligent person, who has the money to run and own a successful store, will only follow black people around and turn a blind eye to the possible thieves from other races of people and then lose money?

        I have seen white people get caught shoplifting, I have seen chinese people get caught shoplifting, I have seen black people get caught shoplifting and everything inbetween

        I am not buying your inane BS that solely black people get followed in a store because of suspicion of thieves

        I wish people would read what i wrote instead of going on and on about things I never wrote or posted

        And if you dont believe me, open a store, I will send a bunch of complete strangers to your store and i will guarantee you will keep a watchful eye on everyone, in case they steal, regardless of race

        • Jun,

          With all due respect, why don’t you agree to disagree with whomever you are arguing with and move on. Not everyone sees things the same way you do and it shouldn’t be necessary for them to do so in order to have a relationship with them. No sense in dying on this hill.

          We are all in this together and we have miles to go before we sleep.

          Justice for Trayvon.

      • Jun says:

        I also feel your attitude, Tee, is wack

        You are trying to act and make it out like being black sucks and is wack

        It’s not!

        If you feel insulted that someone that does not know you is a little apprehensive, it is nothing to really get mad or angry about

        It happens to me too, and you know what, it is because to some people I am a stranger

        I even been pulled over by police and accused of selling cocaine, drinking and driving, and then after the officer was done, he actually apologized to me for accusing me, said he was sorry and he got the wrong person

        I went through the border and the Border Services, went through all my stuff and then after 2 hours, they all lightened up when they learned I was not a bad guy and a simple small time entertainer and musician

        No one is asking you to be completely blind and let your guard down to hateful people but… RELAX!

        Not every single person on the planet is out to get black people like you think

        If someone is following you in a store, why not ask them why they are following you and maybe show a positive attitude and perhaps you could even change a negative stereotype, if that is the case

        Sometimes retail workers are just trying to make commission, so that is why they follow you… so they can talk to you and get a sale and make some commission

        Not everyone is a racist and honestly, all retail stores nowadays have cameras and security everywhere watching everyone and they are not only watching black people

        The only time people only watch black people, is when they watch BET and want to be entertained by some Black Entertainment

      • Jun says:


        Okay. That is fair. I just do not understand or comprehend why they are making it into a separatist issue of black or white. I was just trying to get across that not everyone is out to get black people and that being black is not a negative thing. I can just agree to disagree.

  38. Dennis says:

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, lying is consciousness of guilt. The more lies you tell, the more obvious your guilt is. Any intelligent person can look through the compilation of evidence and decide that he is guilty of murder.

    I believe one or more persons on here believes he should be convicted of manslaughter instead of 2nd degree murder which I disagree with.

    Second degree – killing with malice and no respect for the law, but with no prior deliberation

    Malice = intent to injure

    His actions clearly fit into 2nd degree murder:
    He illegally assaulted and falsely imprisoned Trayvon and he clearly “aimed” and shot him in the heart/lungs.
    His actions post-shooting make him guilty of 1st degree murder because he asphyxiated Trayvon and intentionally denied him medical care which would have possibly saved his life.

    • Malisha says:

      Corey avoided First Degree Murder to save the state money, time, effort and a grand jury proceeding that could have subjected the entire county to demonstrations and counter-demonstrations for months. Since the death sentence was not going to be on the table anyway, her decision was logical and second-degree is enough of a charge to do the available amount of “justice” in this case anyway, so long as the SPD pays for its perfidy.

    • ladystclaire says:

      There is no way that he should be convicted of manslaughter because, what he did was out right *MURDER* and he needs to go to prison for a good Looooooooooong time! Trayvon begged for his life and, this monster still shot him and manslaughter does not fit his crime at all.

      • whonoze says:

        The mandatory sentencing guidelines in Florida ensure that certain cconditions in manslaughter cases (while committing a crime, using a firearm, etc.) tack on a fixed number of years to a manslaughter sentence. Because of of those “special circumstances” if GZ is convicted of manslaughter he will serve about the same term he would for Murder 2. So, don’t lose too much sleep worrying about a jury coming back with the lesser included charge.

        • cielo62 says:

          IIRC it’s 20 years mandatory for any crime committed with a firearm. A 10 enhancement for killing a minor. The difference would be between 25 years for manslaughter, and 25 years to life for Murder 2. In either case, I highly doubt GZ will leave prison until he is very old and gray. He doesn’t exactly follow the rules.

          Sent from my iPod

      • Jun says:

        Manslaughter or Murder 2 both carry 25 to life when carried out with a firearm. Murder 2 is more aggravated though. I doubt they go with Manslaughter because the murder was depraved but if it comes down to it, he’s still going to prison for a long time for either conviction. I doubt it though because the kid was obviously not in control of the situation and screaming for mercy and crying before being killed by the defendant. Then after shooting the kid, he sat on the kid’s back, pinning the kid facedown and asphyxiating the kid, while molesting the kid’s body by rubbing his hands all over the dying kid. Thereafter he has been slandering the kid and lying, which moreso shows a disregard for human life.

        • @Jun:

          When I post that exact scenario on HP to LJP or any of the other Z socks on there, I get no response from them! LOL! NONE! His dad posts like he is 10 years old and so does G. I remind them that the jury will hear that tape and they will decide who the individual is screaming, begging and pleading for his life. The DA wil lthen remind the jury that G never mentioned this exchange to the Detectives on the case whatsoever. I also remind these two cretins that the jurors have children, nieces and nephews, etc, and they will remember what transpired in Newton!

          The jury will be appalled and disgusted by the henious, behavior of the defendant. GZ shot without provocation a young man on the threshold of adulthood. He not only shot him but denied him any mercy. He also further went on to molest the victim and proceeded to further cause him pain and suffering by performing Compressive Asphyxia on his body to make sure he was dead!! That is what Selma L. and Mary C. witnesed that night when they testified that they had no idea what GZ was doing, but those of us in the medical field knew immediately! What a depraved monster GZ is! I hope when he gets to prison, someone bashes in his head!

      • Jun says:


        The jury is going to be unbiased and any objective person with ears can tell it is a younger voice, like a kid, maybe 15 or 16 years old. The defendant’s voice is also heard on the more enhanced versions, so the defendant screaming is already out the door because of that. Add to that that 4 witnesses on scene described it as a kid screaming. The rest of the witnesses with the exception of witness 11 and 6, all have stated they heard screams for help which were stopped with a gunshot. Sybrina will ID it as Trayvon, and so will Deedee. Trayvon was found with tears on his face. Add everything together and it becomes fairly obvious who was screaming. Even two audio experts have stated it is not the defendant, and it is obvious to anyone with ears.

        I do not bother arguing with Z bots. I used to try and talk to them but for the most part they are unreasonable people who are biased and feel a kid has no rights whatsoever to defend himself against an obvious threat to his life.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          I’m hoping that the jury doesn’t learn of the bail hearing lies, until a good bit of GZ’s self serving lies have been given to them. That way, as they are struggling to give GZ the benefit of doubt and entertain some credible controversy about what’s being said, they suddenly discover that GZ is a person, who is capable of outrageous and baldfaced lying. That way, the jury gets to discover his deceit, by “surprise” just the way we did.

          It’s powerful because, they get to compare what they were struggling to believe, because it sounded plausible, only to find that “self serving” is the only characteristic left standing. Then, as the case goes on from that point, they’ll be examining any self serving statement, that has no collaboration materials, as dismissible.

          That’s the point where, when reached, GZ should be put on the stand, so the jurors can see first hand what they have. Every “I forget/ forgot, I don’t know”, will seem terribly suspect. Most especially his “I didn’t know what street I was on.”, will come across as the loud, clear and silly lie that it is. The “I forgot I had a gun!”, will come across as nothing less than an indication of sinister intent!

          With the question always hovering in the back of their minds: “Why, on gods green earth, didn’t he simply identify himself?”

      • Dennis says:


        Most people fail to realize that a “life in prison” sentence in Florida literally means life, not 25 years like other states. This means if they give him the maximum sentence for 2nd degree murder, he will never get out of prison. Since Voldemort has not confessed or shown any remorse for teenager he killed, he will most likely be given the maximum sentence of “life in prison”. There will be no leniency when he is read his sentence.

      • Dennis says:


        “I hope when he gets to prison, someone bashes in his head!”

        Once the black folk in prison know that he executed a black teenager I can’t really say that he will be having a good time. There are people in prison that will gut you because you beat women or molest children. Some killers in prison have more morals than Voldemort does. I would much prefer him to serve his life sentence in solitary confinement; 23 hour lockdown. At least there he will have the time to think about his actions. I don’t believe in the afterlife or heaven/hell so I think he should be punished in this life since death would be an easy way out for him. I am also an animal lover so I advocate that we stop testing chemicals and drugs on animals and instead use actual humans that are of no use to society like Voldemort. I don’t value human life above animals since all life is sacred.

        • @Ladystclaire:

          Happy New Year to you! You know, I just viewed your response to me this evening? LOL! You know, I just want GZ off the face of the earth. I don’t want to see his face or hear his name. I have a son that same age, and I cannot imagine losing him the way the Martins lost Trayvon. It is unfathomable to me. GZ murdered Trayvon Martin because he was angry and enraged because this kid wouldn’t defer to his wishes. he stated to him that he was going to die tonight and made a conscious effort to shoot him. GZ is truly is a messed up man mentally, and no amount of time to me is enough for him to be punished for murdering TM. He didn’t even have any mercy for this kid despite this kid begging and pleading for his life! How heartless and cruel! I guess that is why I wish he was wiped off the face of the earth. I just cannot even stand to look at his face as he paints himself as the victim and TM as the aggressor which we all know is a lie!

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            The worse part of his story is that he was trying to bring a “law breaker” to justice, by not letting him get away. Although he knew that even trying to do so on his own, would have him breaking the law himself.

            The courts are all agreed that you can’t break the law as a way to enforce it. So, when the NEN operator asks GZ “are you following him?” and GZ answers “Yes!: GZ has already admitted he has broken the law! At that point GZ became a criminal! He continues to be a criminal, no matter what he does from that point on. Just as a bank robber does not end his crime, even if he were to return the money. Even if GZ had stopped following Trayvon, GZ was still a criminal because he had actually committed a crime.

          • @Lonnie Starr:

            Happy New Year to you! Lonnie, for the life of me, I don’t understand why GZ was trying to detain TM because that is what he was doing. Was GZ pretending that he was a cop because that is the only thing I could think of, but he possesses no badge and that would account for him not identifying himself which he has never answered as to why he wouldn’t just say who he was and his business there. I know Frank T. stated that if TM had just answered the GZ’s question, this may not have happened. WHAT THE HELL is he taling about?? GZ was not law enforcement, but in his mind he fancied himself a cop. I really do believe that.

            Why wouldn’t GZ identify himself as the NWM and show his drivers license showing that he resided in the community and was concerned for the kids welfare if he was so suspicious and scared of this kid, but then approaches someone he is allegedly scared of? What was his goal that night and if FT is telling the truth, why was it so important to him to receive an answer from this kid? Did he believe that TM was a gang member and realized his “mistake” after everything transpired? He found no weapons on TM, so I believe that he fabricated that story to cover up his crime. Why did he become so angry that he shot this kid was pleading and begging for his life? Why did he have to further humiliate this kid by committing Compressive Asphyxia to further hasten his death because TM might have been still alive and dying slowly. Many unanswered questions and we will never get the correct answers.

          • Xena says:

            I know Frank T. stated that if TM had just answered the GZ’s question, this may not have happened. WHAT THE HELL is he taling about??

            Taaffe has racial entitlement syndrome. It says that when a Black person is asked a question or told to do something, that person is suppose to be submissive. They have no rights to question non-Blacks. They are inferior. Ask no questions. Do what they are told.

          • @Xena:
            Happy New Year Xena! I always enjoy reading your posts and Lonnie’s. Yes, we all Frank Taffee is a racist bigot. He is a throw back from the Jim Crow days, though he was not around then, but his mentality resides there. When my 80 year old dad saw him on the video, he commented that FT, reminded him of the young racist white men who used to harass and humiliate black men and black women in his hometown of Charleston, SC. Frank Taffee believes that blacks should be submissive and subvervient to whites and they should not defer questions when asked and because he made that statement on video and I said to myself, what the hell does he mean, “If only TM had just answered the question??” He is so stupid, he doesn’t even realize that he just told on his BFF! How is he going to explain that statement to a jury? This man truly believes that TM is responsible for his own death. When I heard FT make those statements, I knew in my heart that somehow, he is involved with the killing of TM. somehow. This from a man who has lost two sons, and wishes his daughter would die in combat! What a piece of work!

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Yep, that’s a common theme in Florida! Especially among the older white males. Outside of Miami the racists are much more entrenched than in the biggest cities/tourist centers. Look at Wolfinger!

          • Xena says:

            Yep, that’s a common theme in Florida! Especially among the older white males.

            Lonnie, as quiet as it’s kept, Northwestern Illinois is the Redneck, militia, sovereign citizenship capital of the North.

            When you have time, please take a look at the following 2001 case decision. It hasn’t stopped yet. In predominately Black schools, children are not allowed to bring their books home to study.


          • cielo62 says:

            Racism probably has something to do with the refusal to let the kids take books home. But also if the students are also highly mobile, like in my school, the books get lost when kids move. And guess who pays for lost books? The school district. Via the teachers. I know. I’ve paid.

            Sent from my iPod

          • @cielo62:

            Not letting black children take home books? Do this apply to white children too? Reminds me of the days when my parents could not use the public library even though their parens paid taxes to the city, town and state. Smacks of racism there and the parents and city leaders need to get involved. However, the children should not be discouraged. They need to put their education first and foremost. When I was coming up, reading was what I loved to do. My parents had a library in our home, and it was well stocked with books.

            When I see children today, playing around and skipping school, hanging out at the mall, and I know them? I always remind them that their was a time when blacks were not taught to read and write. The slave masters wanted to keep them ignorant. Education is power and the slave masters did not want their slaves to know how to read because it would empower them and make them dangerous. Blacks had to attend segregated schools, and colleges and they were denied use of the public libraries, and that was not to long ago. Even though the laws have changed, the schools in some areas are still segregated. I speak at Career Day, and I encourage both boys and girls to pursue a career in the Health Fields. I inform them that with a good education, you have more choices in life and with a solid education, no one can ever say that you are not qualified for the position. I do not make excuses for our black children. If you want an education, you can receive one. I tell them to stop blaming the white man for their ills, and get moving! I am sick of that line!

          • cielo62 says:

            In my school it applies to everybody. Color isn’t the issue. Paying for textbooks becomes the issue. I’m not saying the case you linked isn’t racism. I’m just throwing an alternative out there to consider. Some kid has already made off with a textbook from my room. Come June, I will be paying for it. My best guess is that it left during a day I was out. I never assign homework from the texts. It sucks knowing I will be on the hook for $90. Anyway. Just a thought.

            Sent from my iPod

          • Xena says:

            Racism probably has something to do with the refusal to let the kids take books home. But also if the students are also highly mobile, like in my school, the books get lost when kids move.

            These are not the high schools where students change classes. They are K-8 where students are assigned to one room. I haven’t checked the last 2 yrs, but the record was that this area has the lowest reading and math scores in the State of Illinois.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            His reason for not identifying himself is, he already had those wounds on the back of his head opened and bleeding. So, why would he want to surrender all that preparation? Those wounds served as his “badge”. They were his reason for stopping and frisking anyone who happened along, who he believed he could convince the police had attacked him.

            He had probably dreamed up this routine, in hopes of getting Burgess. But, with Burgess in jail, Trayvon would have to do.
            GZ either told someone, or asked enough questions so that they could figure it out. Somehow the word got back to Burgess’s handler and he violated Burgess parole to get him out of the way of the plan. Burgess needs to thank his police handler for putting him in jail, because GZ was probably intending to shoot him instead.
            Then claim he’d been attacked!

          • @Lonnie Starr:

            Thank you for the explanation. I am sitting here trying to figure out if this man is crazy which I know he is, but he is truly a sick human being. You stated this: “His reason for not identifying himself is, he already had those wounds on the back of his head opened and bleeding. So, why would he want to surrender all that preparation? Those wounds served as his “badge”. They were his reason for stopping and frisking anyone who happened along, who he believed he could convince the police had attacked him.” WTH?? BTW was “Burgess the alleged burglar who was arrested eventaully? If the burglar was already arrested, why would GZ still be questioning young men and why this one? Because he was black and he if fabricated his BS story about the kid attacking him, he knows that he would be believed, and he almost was.

  39. whonoze says:

    From the desk of whonoze:

    According to Robert Zim’s furniture
    A black kid will suddenly turn at yer
    Call you a homie
    And smash down your domie…
    Of cow crap Junior’s quite the burnisher!

  40. Malisha says:


    A Chinese guy is sitting at a bar when a Jewish guy sitting at one of the nearby tables in the restaurant gets up, approaches the Chinese guy, and punches him right in the nose. The Chinese guy demands, “Hey what’s that about?” The Jewish guy responds, “That’s for Pearl Harbor!”

    The Chinese guy says: “I’m not Japanese, I’m Chinese!”

    The Jewish guy says, “Japanese, Chinese, what’s the difference?”

    A minute later, the Chinese guy leaves the bar stool and walks up to the Jewish guy’s table and punches him right in the nose. The Jewish guy demands, “Hey what’s THAT about?” The Chinese guy says, “The Titanic!” The Jewish guy says, “Jews didn’t sink the Titanic!” The Chinese guy says, “Goldberg, Iceberg, what’s the difference?” 😈 😆

  41. Jun says:

    Another thing about racism, I believe really good comedians make us laugh at it, especially how silly it is

    Peter Chao, is a Chinese Canadian comedian, who makes fun of all races, even Chinese and other Asians

    He did a series called Chinese Guy Vs Jewish Guy

    • grahase says:

      You know, you may think making fun of races are funny. But it is inappropriate and hurtful to many – stereotypical humour.

      You have no idea how hard it has been to change the culture in a male-dominating workplace when sexist jokes were considered – so-called funny and when women started working in the area, men felt it was appropriate to carry on with the sexist and racist jokes.

      Then, the men felt it was okay to carry on when women were not participating in conversation. But, women were still within earshot. Not acceptable.

      It is all about sensitivity and respect, Jun. And it is hard work to change a culture. I do not like to see the progress made slide back to what it once was.

      We had to send alot of the men to sensitivity training and had to participate in Human Rights Tribunals because of responsibilities of an employer to ensure a safe and healthy workplace with respect and sensitivity to all employees. …and, you know what, it works and it spreads outward. But, it has to start somewhere.

      Discrimination, prejudice, racism, and bigotry, have no right to be in a diversified society.

      • Jun says:

        I do think it is funny

        It is not meant to hurt anyone but comedians like

        Russell Peters
        Dave Chapelle
        Katt Williams

        are really funny…

        even Jackie Chan did a bit on Rush Hour where he did not know “nigga” was a bad word, so he said ‘Whats Up My Nigga” & got in a bar fight LOL

        I am not saying to hurt others but there is not anything wrong with laughing about it and making humor out of the situation

      • gbrbsb says:

        We have some very good comedians in the UK from minority races who make fun of their race, traditions, and even religion. IMO it helps demystify our differences and open up freer acceptance and dialogue as, IMO, no race should be mollycoddled so as to be free from criticism which would only serve as a breeding ground for resentment keeping racism alive.

      • seallison says:

        Please go to ethnic jokes on the web and tell me just how funny they are.

    • seallison says:

      So comedic stereotyping is okay, am I to understand you all correctly – enriching. Okay then, I am talking to the wrong crowd about racism.

      • cielo62 says:

        Your comments are too ” way in your face” for people to take seriously. When you make your listener already defensive, you lose any chance of a meaningful conversation. Humor puts people at ease. You can then begin a serious discussion when your listener is open and attentive. Seallison, your anger turns people off. No one will listen. Your mission and passion become wasted. The jokes are funny because we see them In ourselves. Once we see them In ourselves and how ridiculous the basis for that joke is , we can begin to challenge the basis of those beliefs. Turn down the confrontation. Many here are dealing with racism from many angles.

        Sent from my iPod

  42. Jun says:

    Anyone know the date, the refund for the Fogenhat CCW is?

  43. Rachael says:

    However, Zimmerman’s attorney tells TMZ his client felt “the billing got out of hand quickly. We trusted them to be efficient with their work and they weren’t.”

    —It’s always someone else. Sigh.

    Read more:

    • Jun says:

      Well if they were inefficient as they claim, and the defendant claimed to also be in extravagant danger…

      For them to be inefficient and the defendant was never in any danger must mean the danger is even moreso false because inefficient and incompetent security would then not have provided any security whatsoever


      • Malisha says:

        Hey if they were no good at their job how come the Zimmermans didn’t all get killed? Are all this country’s Black Thugs completely incompetent or what, huh? I mean…

      • Jun says:

        “Black Thugs” are only deadly if they are a 17 year old boy with no experience or training in fighting, non violent, and have Skittles and Ice Tea…

        The secret is the Skittles as it gives them the ability to disappear and reappear at will and run for miles without getting tired and talk after getting shot in the heart and lungs

      • acemayo says:

        After watching a video it was say
        If GZ saw Trayvon
        at the mailboxes while driving along
        RVC past the clubhouse
        in direction of the front gate
        The mailboxes are not only set quite
        a bit back from the road
        but shielded from view by a dense vegetation
        that sticks out on the corner
         so a drive by spotting when
        on RVC seems highly highly unlikely.
        He also sais he saw TM coming out
        between to house if he was at the
        CH he cannot see TM.

        Ater watching two other video’s
        GZ implied by the time given
        From the Club House to the Tee
        Which was at least 517 feet by walking
        Ran off came back circle his car
        add about 411 feet to get 928 feet
        in 45 seconds.

      • gbrbsb says:

        @acemayo said:

        “.. GZ saw Trayvon
        at the mailboxes while driving along
        RVC past the clubhouse
        in direction of the front gate
        The mailboxes are not only set quite
        a bit back from the road
        but shielded from view by a dense vegetation
        that sticks out on the corner
        so a drive by spotting when
        on RVC seems highly highly unlikely.”

        That is a direct quote of a reply I wrote to David Knechel´s youtube video “Taking the Taaffe Tour at Twin Lakes” two days ago. I really don´t mind you using it at all except it was weird reading it because at first I couldn´t remember if I had in fact entered the reply on Knechel´s page or had just written it in my googledocs so until I checked I was worried I had been hacked. With all the recent talk about trolls and hacking it may be better if we note when we are quoting a blogger from somewhere else even if we don´t give their name. No offence taken nor meant.

      • Jun says:

        That is one thing I dont know, is the location of the mailbox

        • Xena says:

          That is one thing I dont know, is the location of the mailbox

          Dave Kneckle’s most recent YouTube videos contain the clubhouse and mailbox locations.

    • Jun says:

      I do not see Omara winning that argument

      The simple fact is the security company has lots of witnesses and footage of all the work and services they provided

      and a written agreement, hence the $7G’s paid every week


      for it to suddenly stop payment but continually use the services and asking for the services, kind of contradicts Omara’s claims of inefficient work, because, if they were unhappy, they would have told them long ago and terminated services, especially when the company told them long ago it was not necessary to have any security whatsoever

      • Rachael says:

        I never heard that they told them it was not necessary to have any security whatsoever. I read that they said they wanted much more than they needed.

        Regardless, I agree, O’Mara can’t win this one. They had a contract. He knows how that works.

      • Malisha says:

        I figure Fogen wants to disappear, so what difference will an outstanding debt or even an outstanding judgment make? I figure he has his money in some Paypal-like thing that his new “trustee” is managing secretly. I figure that Fogen has figured out that he cannot win in the legal system, since it will be either cop an undesirable plea and do the dime or face trial and do do the time.

      • Jun says:

        That is the message that I was getting from the headlines, that it was not necessary

    • Tee says:

      What did they expect? The company provided around the clock services, that’s 24 hrs a day plus hotel and living expenses for 7or 8 staff members that protected at least 5 people. X and his lawyer MOM need to really think before they make these dumb decisions, he’s now trying to get the donors sympathy by saying he could not let the donors be taking advantage of.OMG what a character! They should have asked someone famous what it cost for something like that lol! MOM is saying that he pays $700.00 a day for the service they use now. I would like to know what kind of security service provides 24 hrs service to all those people or $700.00 a day , yeah right, what is that like $30.00 an hr, to protect someone life ok and I was born yesterday.

      • looneydoone says:

        It’s now $700 weekly for security
        $100 a day=$4.17 hour
        Perhaps a home security system was all they ever required

        But as Mr Rumbaugh, from the security service stated
        “z requested far more security than needed”, “those overkill measures made no sense from a security point of view” and “In retrospect, we can see that z was fraudulently inflating his expenses in preparation for his lawsuit against NBC” (all with approval from MOM)

      • Two sides to a story says:

        $700 a week.

      • Rachael says:

        I just saw this at the end of an article about this security thing:

        “A spokesperson for O’Mara confirms with that that was the case and says O’Mara will have more to say about the new case next week.”

        Now I wonder if this is just another O’Mara ploy to stay in the public. Now we get to hear from him some MORE. Mark O’More-a. It seems that he feels the more he brings things to the public, even if bad, the better, like that old saying, even bad publicity is good.

        I do not understand his tactic of saying to wait until all the evidence is out, don’t try the case in the media, yet he is the one not waiting for evidence and trying the case in the media. And looking a fool.

        Read more:

      • Jun says:

        It is a possibility that it is a set up by Omara but I dont see how it helps the security company by taking part in this…

      • gbrbsb says:

        @Racheal said:

        “I do not understand his tactic of saying to wait until all the evidence is out, don’t try the case in the media, yet he is the one not waiting for evidence and trying the case in the media.”

        Yes, and don´t you just love O´mara´s first introduction for GZlegalcase:

        “Since the beginning, there has been a rush to judgment in the case against George Zimmerman.”

        When a “rush to judgment” was exactly what GZ did in respect of his “case” against his “suspect” Trayvon!

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          That’s a real laffer… This case is nothing, if not filled with “rushes to judgement”, but on behalf of GZ and not against him. Those “rushes to judgement”, hoped to fail to collect evidence contrary to GZ’s claims, they hoped to fail to collect testimony that contradicted GZ’s claims, and when that failed, they attempted to change witness testimony to bolster GZ’s claims.

          The Chief of Police and the Prosecutor, both went to the scene, ignored what was there to be found, and immediately concluded that there was nothing to contradict GZ’s claims, even though he hadn’t yet had time, to even record all of his claims! We are later to learn, GZ had very quickly given several claims, and would later give even more claims, creating several different versions of what had happened, and that none of these multiple stories, are supported by the NEN tape or the 911 calls. Did the Chief of Police and the Prosecutor take them into account when deciding that there was nothing at all to contradict GZ’s stories? If not, then isn’t that exactly what’s called a “rush to judgement”?

          I thought so!

  44. Xena says:

    For anyone not familiar with Jane Elliot’s work, here’s a sample.

    • Rachael says:

      They did something like that at my son’s elementary school one day but they didn’t say anything about it. They just treated all the blue/green-eyed kids differently than the brown-eyed kids. They (the kids) figured it out by the end of the day and it was discussed it. Some of the parents got really upset with the “experiment” but it was really very educational.

      • Xena says:

        Josh Solomon was a college student in the mid 1990’s who took pills to turn his skin black. He shaved his head, and went to Florida. He has written a book about it. One thing he said that is profound that as a White teen, he could be broke but was still respected. As a Black teen, he was always the suspect. After a week, he stopped taking the pills and stayed home to let them wear off. He could not take being Black any longer.

      • Jun says:


        I guess the myth of going black and not going back is a myth then

  45. Nefertari05 says:


    There is a troll Prof. Leatherman of HuffPo, begging for money like O’Money. We know that’s not his character. I posted it up top so you can read detail, but please join me in flagging and reporting them.

  46. grahase says:

    The murderer lives(d) with a white father and he identifies himself as white when there is no advantage to refer to himself as Hispanic. Are there advantages such as affirmative action programs for visible minorities – like special concessions for education, employment, taxes, etc. I think, if there are, you will find it was to his advantage to refer to himself as Hispanic. He is an opportunist and would, of course, take advantage of any program where one exists.

    He is racist none-the-less – and he is white – none-the-less.

    • Jun says:

      They also contradict each other a lot. They claim to be white one day, and then hispanic one day, and then continue to claim to be white, and then they resort to the Nazi tactics of claiming white people are oppressed and need to fight back against the people of color

      • grahase says:

        So right – anything controversial to keep them in the news. When you need a white guy to speak – on comes Papa.

        When you need a Hispanic to speak – on comes Mama.

        Then, when you need a black man to speak, out of the woodwork comes our good friend – Joe Oliver!

        Junior is assigned to stirring things up.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        If RZJr and Fogen are adopted sons of who-knows-who, they are anxious about their race. Lotta stuff wrong with these guys, but it’s no excuse for murder.

      • Jun says:

        I can see through their games and what their agenda is…

        their attempts is to throw blame on others to cause a misdirection

        however, unsuccessful

      • Malisha says:

        But here’s a HAHAHA: Last time Oliver came out talking publicly (after a long remedial training on how not to sound like such an idiot), he said, in spite of his trying to sound supportive to Fogen, that the situation certainly would show any outside person (who did not intimately know fogen so they would not believe anything ill about him) that it was a racist act! Admitting that by the facts alone, it would naturally be seen as a racist act, he then offers the real reason it was NOT a racist act: Because HE knows Fogen and he KNOWS Fogen is not a racist! So the circular reasoning is this:

        1. Fogen is not a racist.
        2. Therefore when Fogen profiled and killed a Black kid for no reason other than he saw him as being “suspicious” and “up to no good” and considered him an “asshole” and a “punk”, although it might look like a racist act, it really was NOT.
        3. Therefore, since the killing of Trayvon Martin was NOT a racist act, it has been proven that the killer, Fogen, is not a racist.

        HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

        We need to be real careful now to identify Fogen as non-racist. Therefore I suggest amending his appellation a bit: Fogennar. (That’s “Fogen-Not-A-Racist.”)

        Anyway, Fognnar and his brother Jun-i-ar are not racists. OK?

      • Jun says:

        Yep Junior is not a racist. He just does not like black people and likes to blame all his problems on the black community and they should bow down to him for being black. Could have fooled me.

        Yep Fogenhats is not a racist. He just wants to run over Mexicans with his car. They just crossed the border illegally, and are punks, so why is that racist? Could have fooled me. When a black teenage boy is walking around looking about, he is automatically suspicious looking and a “fucking coon”. But again, it could not be racist, because the Stepin Fetchit Joe Oliver knows the real Fogenhats. In fact, Joe Oliver recommended the website address for kid killer.

      • gblock says:

        I watched a YouTube video last week which came from a news broadcast. One of the people being interviewed was a psychologist, and she used the psychology-speak term “priming” with regards to GZ’s profiling of TM. The idea was that because of the earlier arrest of a black teen for burglary in that neighborhood, the association of “burglary” with “black” had been primed in GZ’s subconscious mind. She may have been trying to choose a softer description in order to avoid people screaming about it if she said “racist”. But, her terminology also seems to me to soft-pedal the issue beyond what is justifiable by the facts.

        • cielo62 says:

          The media does this all if the time. Shootings in Houston involving minorities are almost always prefaced with the “fact” that the shooting took place in a “high crime area”. This primes the readers to not care, since its “their” neighborhood they are shooting up.

          Sent from my iPod

      • Rachael says:

        gblock – I guess soft-pedaling is what you would call it. I think people who don’t think they are racist don’t get it. They would soft-pedal and say that Trayvon was “dressed” like a thug because of the hoodie, it was the hoodie that made him look suspicious. Again, they don’t understand that what they really mean is that wearing a black kid wearing a hoodie looks suspicious. Why? They will say because of the hoodie – but is it really because of the hoodie or because it is a black kid wearing it? I mean if Mark Zuckerberg had been walking down the street wearing a hoodie, would he have looked suspicious? Would he have looked like a thug?

        I really believe that “racist” people don’t understand that they are racist and that they are not attributing the “thugism” to the actual hoodie but the black person wearing it and are able to say they are not racist because it was the hoodie, thus ignoring the part about why it is the hoodie. The hoodie is part of their racism. Black people wearing hoodies are thugs in their minds. It is part of their perception of “thugism,” it is part of their racism they are able to ignore because they don’t get it.

      • Jun says:

        It does sound like he is trying to set Trayvon up on the phone call because there was no evidence of him having done anything with the exception of the defendant excitedly blurting out “Shit, he’s running” to himself and then you hear him barreling towards him.

        One thing I got to say is that the State needs to have a timeline and evidence of each and every part of the story down, which they should be able to do

    • Rachael says:

      There are many races within the Latino community, including White, Black, Native Indian, and even Asian. He is white – but when he is saying he is Hispanic, the “advantage” is he/they seem to think that if he is Hispanic, he cannot be racist. Therefore, he is white – and he is racist, none the less.

      • Jun says:

        You can be of any race of people and be racist

        Racism is a mentality and philosophy of hate, not a race of people

        But you are right, I feel the same way, and I feel they are trying really foolishly to come off racist

  47. grahase says:

    It isn’t about race — it is all about white-privilege.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Yes, and it’s about fearful white people losing their majority status.

      • Rachael says:

        I agree.

      • looneydoone says:

        >”Yes, and it’s about fearful white people losing their majority status”
        That’s been the driver since the first boatload of W Euros waded ashore at Jamestown in 1608…that all other ethnicities, and cultures are inferior. The USA has never addressed it’s virulent
        racism/nativism and instead uses platitudes such as “we are a post racist society” to hide the ugly truth. The rise in militias, white identity groups and wanting changes to the 14th
        Amendment, English as the official language, bills limiting the right to vote, “sealing borders” etc has reached fever pitch due to the demographic change that’s taken place…the nativists are in a panic over their perception of loses to their *right* to privileges only they should be afforded

        As an aside
        I lived most my life on the USA/Mexico border (San Diego native)and many in this growing *patriot* movement are themselves recent arrivals to the USA from former Soviet bloc nations. Even Jim Gilchrist, founder of The Minuteman group has spoken out on their having been usurped by white supremacists/separatist right wing nuts with ulterior motives (I
        was dumbstruck by his admission)

        These people, these movements must be met head-on…not
        merely phoo-phoo’d as being fringe extremists. These are mostly “sovereign citizen” types who fantacize (and train for) a take-down of the USA government.

    • Jun says:

      Even though it is not completely gone, racism that is, I would like to point out that they are in a minority position of power now

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Thank goodness.

      • grahase says:

        What!!! It is a patriarchal white privileged misogynistic society. What do you mean they are in a minority position of power now —- the system of laws and society itself does not change because there is a new president. There are two main political parties that have been in office at one time or another and both those parties are based on white privilege. If you think racism is not completely gone, you are right. It is right where it has always been. You live in Canada and it is the same – misogynistic patriarchal white privilege-based. In Canada, just ask any of the aboriginal nations how they feel about prejudice and discrimination.

        To think otherwise, is denying a fact. Did you know that the USA is the only so-called first world country that does not have maternity leave benefits. That is just a start – for you to ask why that is.

      • Jun says:

        I am not basing it on the presidency. I am not denying it that it is not there. I am just saying based on my observation, they are not as powerful anymore and their group is small.

  48. grahase says:

    The word “race,” denoting lineage, comes from a French translation of haras (silent “h”) into the Italian razza — which in Italian of that time applied to animals, not people. This points to current English and Italian usage being derived and adapted, respectively, from the French.

    A human race is defined as a group of people with certain common inherited features that distinguish them from other groups of people. All men of whatever race are currently classified by the anthropologist or biologist as belonging to the one species, Homo sapiens.This is another way of saying that the differences between human races are not great, even though they may appear so, i.e. black vs white skin. All races of mankind in the world can interbreed because they have so much in common. All races share 99.99+% of the same genetic materials which means that division of race is largely subjective, and that the original 3-5 races were also probably just subjective descriptions as well.

    In short, when some people use the “race” they attach a biological meaning, still others use “race” as a socially constructed concept. It is clear that even though race does not have a biological meaning, it does have a social meaning which has been legally constructed.

    • Malisha says:

      But the meaning “race” has taken in this case is obvious. From the get-go, Fogen was pointing out things that he believed would put him into a certain “class” of people as opposed to another “class” of people. He was in the class of people who, according to his own assessment, had the right to determine who else was “suspicious” or considered “a suspect.” He probably considered some white people “suspicious” but more than likely considered nearly all Black people “suspicious” and in particular, Trayvon Martin, whom he called “the suspect.”

      I think there are two sentences (and their surrounding contexts) that prove to me, more than anything else, that Fogen acted from racist motivations and that Junior is speaking from that same place with his unending, whining, irritating, drivel.

      “What’s your fucking problem, homie?”

      – and –

      “The suspect again emerged from the darkness.”

      The “homie” reference came from Fogen’s first interview with Singleton. By the time Serino was interviewing Fogen, he specifically asked, “Did he [Martin] say ‘homie’?” and Fogen answered, “I don’t know.”

      The sentence about the suspect emerging from the darkness came from Fogen’s written statements.

      If Fogen did not believe that he would naturally and effortlessly command more respect than Trayvon Martin would command, he would not have uttered either of these two preposterous statements. Only because he assumed that he would be believed regardless of what he said, credible or not, would he come out with this kind of idiotic claptrap.

      • Eric says:

        Did catch in one of the taped calls to the dispatcher, when Zimmerman was asked for the address of his apt. he quickly corrected the guy and said it’s a house? That was funny. And it speaks to your point of what “class” this man placed himself in.

  49. grahase says:

    There is only one race —- the human race.

  50. fauxmccoy says:

    i am always puzzled when on other sites when i do engage with those who support GZ that i am accused of racism, as in because gz is hispanic that i am prejudging the situation. i have seen that a lot and it is specifically when i am calling out obvious racists – it is the only retort they have, as they obviously have no real argument to support.

    it is easy enough to tear apart gz’s story using simple logic and forensics. much harder to support him, unless racism is the only tool in one’s shed.

    good article prof!

  51. Xena says:

    We live in a racist society and nothing will change unless we admit that we do and we commit to ending racism. As always, the self is the place to start changing society.

    I applaud those such as Tim Wise and Jane Elliot who have dedicated themselves to educating people about racism and changing the way we perceive others because of the color of their skin.

    This leads to my question — in all the years that America has worked towards exposing individual and institutionalized racism, that work appears to have taken a step back by those who justify their own bigoted racism by accusing people of color of being racist.

    We read this now in Robert Jr.’s diatribes on and to the media; i.e., he says that his family are not racist — he accuses every person of color who had power to bring this case to national attention seeking justice for Trayvon of being racist. He and his mother have used dog whistles such as the word “savage.”

    What should be are response to such dog whistles?

    • Accusing victims of racism because they dare to object to being treated as second class citizens is racist hypocrisy.

    • Cercando Luce says:

      There is a philosophical expression for someone who accuses others of what he is doing himself, as does loathsome RZ. Something like tautology or solipsism, but I can’t remember what the word itself is. Wish it’d come back to mind because it’s so applicable.

    • Mandelbaum says:

      It is quite astounding that the Z’s, knowing Fogen’s criminal history, mental health, drug, alcohol issues, and his past confrontations with other total strangers that HE also thought to be guilty of a crime; …..have the unmitigated gall to boldly and emphatically repeat to the entire world Fogen’s dispicable and rediculous lies as though they themselves KNOW them to be the God’s honest truth! The have to KNOW that Trayvon was INNOCENT! But they don’t even seem to be And they have NO shame to their game. RZSr. was a magistrate afterall. Did he display this same biased judgement on the bench?

      I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I believe that the ENTIRE Z family have the same or similar mental disfunctions. I wouldn’t be suprised if they all are on schitzoid meds.

      • Malisha says:

        And they have NO shame to their game. RZSr. was a magistrate afterall. Did he display this same biased judgement on the bench?

        Magistrates in Virginia don’t shame easy.

      • Xena says:

        RZSr. was a magistrate afterall. Did he display this same biased judgement on the bench?

        As a magistrate, Papa Zim did little more than sign search warrants and arrest warrants for animal abuse and such. A J.D. and license to practice law is not required to be a magistrate.

        I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I believe that the ENTIRE Z family have the same or similar mental disfunctions. I wouldn’t be suprised if they all are on schitzoid meds.

        Is believing you are better than others a mental dysfunction? LOL!! That’s their problem.

      • Jun says:

        I am actually not surprised at all by them

        This is the same crew that

        (1) Claimed what sounds like a kid screaming, to be that of Fogenhats, when Fogenhats is not a kid (see how I did that)

        (2) Claimed to be broke and indigent and in massive elusive danger yet out comes the final proof that the security team even said it was unnecessary

        (3) Are trying to claim that an unarmed 17 year old scrawny boy, who only had $40, Skittles, Ice tea, and no violent history is more dangerous then Fogenhats who has attacked, molested, attempted rape, abused a dog, stalked and harassed others, was larger than the kid by about 50 or more pounds, and had a gun and a malicious attitude before killing the kid

        (4) Blame all black people for their problems after the defendant had killed a black kid after stalking and terrorizing the kid to the point he was running away from him and screaming for help

        (5) Went on national TV and claimed that Fogenhats had shaken baby syndrome

        (6) Paid Joe Oliver to be their token black guy

        (7) Hid passport and money and claim to be so honest and truthful by lying to the court and law enforcement and telling them that they betrayed him

        (8) Claim not to be racist and then continually make racist actions

        (9) Claim the Trayvon family is trying to milk their son’s death for money, yet the defendant was the one who stalked, terrorized and killed Trayvon, and then begged for money, and then spent all the money on himself

        (10) On top of having a molested cousin of the family, whom Fogenhats attempted rape on, they try to smear her name in the media (which was unsuccessful BTW), and they used the Conservative Tinfoil Hat to try and intimidate and harass her

        (11) Claim that the acts of crime committed against witness 9 are irrelevant of violent behavior and then claim the one time Trayvon was suspended for having an empty baggie which the school believed had marijuana in it at one time equates violent thuggery

        (12) After targeting, stalking, terrorizing and killing a black kid, they set upon a smear campaign to slander the kid, and then now want an apology and sympathy from Trayvon’s family

        so… after witnessing all of this (which I believe i only listed 1% of)… are any of us surprised anymore from these people?

        It is getting to the point I believe it is legal to give all three of them an uppercut in the solar plexus

        Ask judge Judy

      • Malisha says:

        Xena, a magistrate in VA can sign a felony warrant and that felony warrant can be used for a federal “Unlawful Flight to Avoid Prosecution” warrant and that UFAP warrant can be used in any court in the country to deprive any person in that other state of their constitutional rights to due process and equal protection in that OTHER STATE. You would not believe the system they have set up in Virginia to do illegal “law” on behalf of judges, and even prosecutors, who simply tell Magistrates from other counties to draw various warrants for them so they can have court proceedings that arose from nowhere, that are brought on without probable cause affidavits, and that have no underlying paperwork. And then the prosecutors can just lie about what happened and there’s no paper trail. Commonwealth Attorney Helen Fahey of Arlington County, Virginia did this together with some magistrate who retired, and she made a felony warrant that led to a completely illegal proceeding that TO THIS DAY has given rise to a Circuit Court order that is being enforced in the State of Maryland and that was previously enforced in the District of Columbia, and it all happened because a night magistrate signed a worthless piece of paper, without evidentiary back-up, when a person raised his hand and lied under oath without signing a piece of paper, on December 2, 1982 at 10 p.m. They have immense power to do illegal stuff and to face not only NO CONSEQUENCES but no appeal, no appellate upset, no public exposure. They’re basically “court functionaries” in the sense of powerful people wroking for the king in the Star Chamber.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Just because people have jobs or careers in the justice system doesn’t make them any more moral than anyone else. The family seems to have a streak of psychopathy / sociopathy – not particularly uncommon for some people who seek positions of power over others.

  52. grahase says:

    Recognizing racism and bigotry for what it is and actually doing something about it can do nothing but enrich a society. In one of the most powerful, privileged nations in the world, why is it taking so long to recognize the diversity and richness in the American culture.

    Professor, I love this post. You are so very right.

    The first thing I would work on (and it is pretty easy to do) is change the way people are recognized. Get rid of the hyphenated description. American is American. Does anyone say – I am a white American. I haven’t heard it.

    Yet, others, those who are not members of the white privileged class are left identifying themselves according to heritage. I never could understand the term – African-American. How many generations have descended from slaves from many different countries and not just Africa. How many generations will it take before a person with dark skin can be given the supposed privilege of simply being identified as American.

    My God. Why are some people identified as Hispanic-Americans!!! Hispanic is not a race. Who started that nonsense and more-importantly why. Was it to be a blanket identifier of those who are not quite white because the so-called Hispanics are (in reality) Caucasian. I think it was adopted because the white-privileged Caucasians feel a need to be separate from their darker-skinned family.

    The list goes on.

    Get rid of the hyphenated categories.

    In fact, why do the SPD ask White, black, or Hispanic.

    Asian is not a race either. White is not a race. Native is not a race.

    • grahase says:

      To be a citizen of the United States (which is a democratic society and where all are created equal), you are American. We have all come from somewhere else.

      Thank you Professor.

    • Xena says:

      American is American. Does anyone say – I am a white American. I haven’t heard it.

      People do identify themselves according to their country of origin, such as Irish-American, Italian-American, Polish-American, German-American, etc.

      African-American was an answer to distinguish between Blacks born in the U.S. as opposed to those not born in the U.S., many of whom do not want to be associated with the slavery in America. For instance, those coming to America from Jamaica, Haiti, Trinidad, etc.

      While many Americans now see this to apply to culture, there are some who only apply it to race.

      I generally use “Black” because if people are going only by the color of skin, that is the race they see. I adopted that years ago for two reasons. One, a friend from Egypt, (who looks like any average Black man on the South side of Chicago), was stopped for driving while Black. Two, a friend born in Africa by White American missionary parents considers herself African-American.

      • @Xens:
        Hi Xena! I don’t nderstand that mentality from my black friends who hail from The Carribean Islands and they do have that “attitude.” I have inquired of them as to why they try to diaassociate themselves from black people in America? Who do they think their ancestors were and where did they come from? AFRICA! The slave ships also traveled to those Islands and dropped off slaves there too, but I know where you’re coming from. I have several friends from Haiti, Trinidad, and Barbados who all think that way. My great grandma (my daddy’s grandma on his daddy’s side) was from Panama but I tended to side with our families, Southern roots since I never knew Nana Maria. Interesting though.

        • Xena says:

          Who do they think their ancestors were and where did they come from? AFRICA! The slave ships also traveled to those Islands and dropped off slaves there too, but I know where you’re coming from.

          They admit to that, but it’s the form of slavery in America that causes them to believe that they are more free from oppression than Black Americans. Blacks slaves in other countries maintained their history with Africa. In America, slaves were taught to be ashamed of being from Africa. American slavery was the worst slavery known to man not only in terms of labor and living conditions, but with selling family members away from each other and also having “breeding” plantations. It also lasted longer than in other countries.

          America is the only country that had to have a war between Whites to end slavery. Essentially, many Blacks from the islands do not trust Whites and see Black Americans as being too dependent on them, which they blame on Whites also for not allowing Blacks as slaves to maintain their ability to live off the land to survive and their talents to make a living as free men.

          • @Xena:

            I understand your definition perfectly and I understand my friends from The Islands feelings. However, especially here in NYC, a lot of my Carribean friends will say exactly what you did, and tthink that they are better than “American African Americans.” They will make denigrating comments about the “laziness of AA in America” and that AA hold onto the slave mentality here always looking for a hand our from whites. THAT, I agree with myself! Thanks for your post. It was very enlightening. Though, my Island friends and my AA friends have very different experiences in America, I remind them that they are treated the same way we are. Most whites do not differentiate between them and us. They only see skin color.

          • Xena says:

            Though, my Island friends and my AA friends have very different experiences in America, I remind them that they are treated the same way we are. Most whites do not differentiate between them and us. They only see skin color.

            Bingo! And some who realize that become very disappointed that their American Dream cannot be obtained due to institutionalized racism. Yet, they do not want to return to the island of their birth except to visit.

            I have a friend whose husband is a native of Trinidad. He has 2 degrees and was once the Minister of Tourism for the U.S. Virgin Islands. He speaks, reads and writes 3 languages. Here, the best job he could get was working as a head hunter on commission.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            I too understand those differences, reading about the different ways that slavery was practiced the Dutch were the most “honorable” slave owners around, they gave their slaves rights and even privileges and allow them to learn to read, write and better their skills. They even paid them wages, although meager to be sure, they would increase these wages as the slaves gained ever more useful skills. One slave I read about, working on a sugar plantation, learned to cook sugar, a process so difficult it was considered more of an art than a science. As a master of the trade he was able to buy his freedom and the entire plantation besides.
            As you might imagine, it was either that or have him walk off and refuse to cook, and the entire crop would be ruined along with the master who would have been left deeply in debt and savaged by his competitors.

            As opposed to a steel maker in the States, whose slave managed to make the best grade of steel available. Steel so good that his owner was able to borrow enough money to build a special steel mill for his slave to run. All his slave asked in return was a particular wedding dress for his soon-to-be-wife. The master refused and the slave refused to make steel. Instead of reaching a compromise, the master proceeded to have his slave beaten, to make him comply. So the slave did, he made ton after ton of substandard steel which the owner, behind in his order book, shipped. (If this doesn’t remind you of the mentality of those on the Treehouse and HP, I don’t know what will.) Long story short, the steel was returned, the master was sued, the banks called his loans, he was ruined.

            But, the bankers were no fools, to protect their investments they had placed spies all around the mill. So they knew what had been going on. They immediately moved to protect the slave from his irate master, and they gave him what he asked and more, to get him to make his superior steel for them. His horrible master was sold into servitude to pay off his debts, and guess who managed to own him? Google slavery every once in awhile to come across various stories. These ones I read way back when “Air Mosaic” was the browser of choice and what we now call dial-up was all we had.

      • Jun says:

        I feel that is just part of black culture and they are just joking about that stuff

        It is the same when Asian kid’s make fun of FOB Asian kids in school

        I have seen it myself when African American kids make fun of kids str8 from Africa

        & I do see white people say white American. They also say Irish American or whatever

      • Malisha says:

        The funniest headline I ever saw announced, when Nelson Mandela was released from prison and became President of South Africa: “MANDELA ELECTED FIRST AFRICAN AMERICAN PRESIDENT OF SOUTH AFRICA.”

        Of course, some headline-writer figured “African American” was just a nicer way of saying “Black” so he gave the President of another country an American label!

      • Jade says:

        @Deborah Moore

        I’m not sure what’s going on with the blacks from the islands because I’m not one, but speaking for myself I think a lot of it is just that we come from different cultures. While I don’t think that I disassociate myself from black Americans, I don’t believe that I can be lumped in with them because my ancestry and my personal story is and always will be different.

        Of course, that doesn’t mean that I support injustice and racism. When cases like what happened to Trayvon happen, I stand in solidarity with anyone who supports the Law, fairness, and equal rights for all people. Just like how I would if Trayvon had been White, Asian, female, LGBT, old, or Muslim. It’s about reaching out to other human beings.

        And while I do deeply empathize with what people of colour have had to go through (and still obviously go through), I do admit to being a bit resentful when I feel like people are generalizing the black experience as a single common one.

        I’m not saying that because I believe my home country is so much better or anything, but it’s that sometimes I interpret those comments to suggest that I can’t properly support Civil Rights or any of that other stuff if I don’t claim slavery and American history as my own.

        I empathize. I really do. I’ll always be right there standing up for minorities and oppressed peoples when I can.

        But my ancestors were not slaves. I have not grown up dealing with institutional racism, white supremacy, and all those other poisonous philosophies at every level (we have our own problems). That’s unique to African Americans and it’s a big part of what I think makes their history and their continued struggle for equality so beautiful in the grand scheme of things.

        I understand where you’re coming from though and I’ve appreciated reading your comments. 🙂 I just didn’t see anyone speaking to the obvious cultural differences between black people from different countries.

        • cielo62 says:

          Jade- same thing with Latinos. You got Spanish speakers from Spain, most of South America, Central America and a Puerto Rico. We have nothing in common with each other except a basic Spanish language. In the US, especially redneck Texas, anybody that speaks Spanish is Mexican. Within the hierarchy of Latinos, that’s trailer park trash. I see how people make distinctions that to true racists make no difference at all.

          Sent from my iPod

      • aussie says:

        That Mandela story comes from using euphemisms and code words to the point that many forget what they really mean.

        I once saw an article that earnestly declared that “teen pregnancies peak around age 15 and drop to almost zero by age 23″…………..

        • Xena says:

          I once saw an article that earnestly declared that “teen pregnancies peak around age 15 and drop to almost zero by age 23″

          LOL! Well, now we know why GZ described Trayvon as in his “late teens” to the dispatcher, but said in court he thought he was a few years younger than 28 [him].

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Their sloppy work, a little better research should have revealed to the author that the existence of teens themselves drop to zero after 19 years of age. Teen pregnancies, therefore, should have completely disappeared by that time as well… That is… “Unless those teens over 19 were also partially pregnant prior thereto!” LOL

      • Jun says:

        All slavery is evil, and you cant really make it nice to be honest, it is a trap and a ghetto…

        For example, you have the story of Moses and Egyptian Slave Masters

        You have during the slave era where Africans were kidnapped to be used as labor and sex slaves (some even sold and captured by other African tribes)

        You have the coolies whom some were captured from China & India to work and slave in the Caribbean, Cuba, etc

        You have the Chinese who built railroads and were not allowed to bring their wives or family and were pretty used for free labor, and were not allowed to live with white people, so many had to live in black communities

        You have the modern day sweatshops

        You have sexual slavery of the pimp and the prostitutes

        You have the drug dealer who wont let the junkie go free

        all are perverse and suck, bottom line, and it continues to this day

      • leander22 says:

        I once saw an article that earnestly declared that “teen pregnancies peak around age 15 and drop to almost zero by age 23″…

        Well, this article is not so stupid, as you want it to make. Fact is the younger the girls the more easy they get pregnant. It is a simple biological fact. But since now most women are older that may be the reason that one of my cousins a biologist is in the test-tube baby trade. …

        So the article may while not comprehensively but nevertheless “earnestly declare” some of the inherent biological laws.

  53. Witness 9 told the truth. The Z Klan have proved her point over and over. Especially Junior. I believe that the family of Trayvon(may he rest in peace), will have justice. I am so sorry for their loss. I am praying for them every day, to keep the faith, and to not pay attention to the “white” noise. It is going to be okay. Thank you Professor, for your wise thoughts. I agree with you. If we try, we can. We can in our life times end this disease of the mind. Trayvon did not die in vain.

    • yes, she did. and i always believed her. and most people here believed her. there wasn’t a plausible reason for her to lie. i applaud her for coming forward. and i’m sure she never dreamed of the spectacle and harassment the zimmerlovers have caused. but it’s not always easy to do the right thing.

  54. cielo62 says:

    >^..^< true. I confess I'm prejudiced against mice … Honestly, this case HAS put me in a reflective state. I grew up with racism. At first, I believed the initial GZ story. That was before even the barest bit of evidence emerged. But even then I wondered why he hadn't been arrested. Now only a racist morons believes the GZ story. But I am left with the knowledge that I believed GZ at all, based on just Martin' color. That kind of violence is common in Houston. That's still no reason to believe a killer based on so few facts.

  55. All must keep in mind that Papa Z began the “black people” discourse in his letter to the NAACP, where he repeatedly accused the black community of wishing to harm the Z’s. Coupled with GZ’s stereotypical account of a deranged gangsta hoodlum, papa Z’s letter created strong interest in hate groups.

    • Jun says:

      It proves that the Zimmernuts family all think racially about others and stereotype others by race

      By their actions, they are saying:

      1) Only black people care about other black people, and there is no way people of other races will care about a black person. The actual truth is people are people and will see something wrong and stick up for it. In fact, the petition that got 2.3 million signatures was started by an Irish man. They are also calloused by making this statement because it is if they are saying other races of people are cold hearted and would not care that a black kid was targeted, stalked, confronted, threatened and killed thus murdered.

      2) Black people as a whole are all animals and need a gringo like Robert Senior to tell them how to act and he expects them to act like a “House Negro” and “Uncle Toms”

      • Xena says:

        @Jun. Bingo. You nailed it.

      • Malisha says:

        Jun, you’re right. But I have to always jump in when I see a disrespectful use of the phrase “Uncle Tom.” Uncle Tom was a character in the Harriett Beecher Stowe novel who was actually a hero, although as a Christian, he even bestowed love upon his abuser and upon all the “masters” who “owned” slaves. In fact, the author drew his character from that of The Reverend Josiah Henson who was a “runaway slave” and an ordained Christian minister. He founded a school and church in Canada after fleeing slavery in Maryland. Like the character Uncle Tom, he was a Christian and very benevolent and charitable, but also wise and strong and he devoted his life to saving and helping others. The particular characteristic of “Uncle Tom” that earned that phrase a “bad rep” in modern times was his habit of being passive, but he was passive like Ghandi, and he practiced both passive resistance and intelligent escape. After all, he was trained as a preacher, not as a soldier, and he was unarmed. Still, Henson prevailed and succeeded and in his symbolic way, so did “Uncle Tom.”

      • Jun says:

        I was brought to feel and think “Uncle Tom” meant the same as “Steppin Fetchit” or “House Negro”

      • Cercando Luce says:

        I heard “Uncle Tom” as put-down before I read the book recently. The book’s incidents (but not the plot) were all based on actual events witnessed by members of the authors family. The character Uncle Tom is a devout Christian accepting of his own fate, whatever comes, but not accepting the fate of others; and hides the escape of others and is beaten to death. He was such a kind, wise and decent character that I found myself completely outraged. “Uncle Tom’s Cabin” was probably the only way to influence voters (property-owning males) in the 1850’s United States.

      • Malisha says:

        Jun, I’m not criticizing anybody who uses “Uncle Tom” to mean a Black person who behaves like Joe Oliver. Perhaps it would be better from now on to call such individuals “Olivers.” But I always jump in to defend “Uncle Tom” when he is mentioned because I did study the Dred Scott case, the book “Uncle Tom’s Cabin,” and the Harriett Beecher Stowe book “A Key to Uncle Tom’s Cabin,” when doing research for a play I wrote for grade school children to perform, teaching the story of the Dred Scott case. Uncle Tom was a hero, a noble person, a Christian and a very complex character, as was Josiah Henson.

      • logi says:

        …And this coming from someone that refers to his self and let’s people call him Nigga Chinky. Wow. That part that offends me most is you make comments about a group of people you know nothing about and when your wrongs are pointed out ,you don’t even apologize.Same as it ever was…

      • Jun says:


        I honestly dont know why you “dick ridin” me hard but…

        there is a huge difference between me and the defendant and his family

        I simply talk a lot of crap and some of it ignorant and what you are complaining about is a photobucket I made about 10 years ago

        I have not targeted, stalked, terrorized, confronted, attacked or killed any black people and then try to pass it off and then say a lot of hateful crap

        So if you are unhappy, go bother every other non-black that has used the N word in a different way like Fat Joe, pretty much every Puerto Rican in New York, Jackie Chan or whatever… otherwise, you are a hypocrite because you are singling me out for something that is really common within my generation, which is as youth, we called each other “Nigga”

      • Malisha says:

        Jun, I don’t have any objection to anything you said. I am not understanding Logi’s objection. I just wanted to clear up my own stuff.

        Years back, I had some Black friends in Detroit who used to refer to each other affectionately as “nigga” at times but I never heard it used outside that context unless it was being misused. But I had noticed, from college onward, that in a group of whites, there sometimes arose a permissive spirit of “we’re all white here so we say what we like” and then all sorts of racism and epithets could creep into the speech, including (if they didn’t identify me as Jewish) anti-Semitic crap. If the stuff I was hearing was racist, I’d fold my arms and lean back and say, lazily, “What is it, exactly, that you’re trying to tell me about Black people, huh?” Then there was this extreme uncomfortable silence for a quick minute while they would look at me and I could see them think, “Wait a minute, is she a light-skinned Black?” And then all sorts of disclaimers and the expected, “Some of my best friends…” If they were doing anti-Semitic crap, I’d lean FORWARD and lean my chin on one hand and ask, with a New Jersey accent, “Do you have something to tell me about the Jews?” Immediate identical reaction and of course, their best friends were “people of the Jewish faith.”

        I actually hated these encounters but I think the people I did this to imagined I enjoyed it and that only THEY hated it. Weird.

      • logi says:

        @Jun first of all, judging from your picture I wouldn’t ride anything on you let alone your dick. To both you and Malisha there is nothing more sicking then hearing non-black people discussing what Black people should be offended at. Talking about the different types of Black people like we are a science project.

        BTW Jun Puerto Rico is not a race as to your Fat Joe comment, it’s an island is filled with descendants of African slaves
        Fat Joe calls women bitches and ho’s does that mean I can call your mother a chink ho if I do it in a endearing way ?

        Jun Would you greet President Obama or Angela Davis as Nigger? That word is offensive to Black people. It is derogatory and there is nothing endearing about it. To a Black person ,which I am, the words coon and nigger are the same thing.

        Malisha I wonder how many black people you actually know? how many have been in your home? You talk about us like were animals. Putting us in classes like a slave master would and you’re so carefree about. You like to sit around and discuss the plight of Black people, then you defend Jun’s racism, then it’s back to talking about the coloreds again.

        You guys say you’re down with Trayvon yet you defend the use of the word nigger. That’s a damn shame cause that word was probably the last word Trayvon heard before he felt a hot bullet in his chest.

        Jun I don’t want to hear that drag about you came up with that nigger crap ten years ago, cause you’re posting it now. Come to Oakland with that shit. You people are a bunch of hipocrates.

        • cielo62 says:

          Logi- sounds like you need to take a chill pill. If you don’t care for their comments, ignore them. This blog is plenty big enough to read and learn without responding to each blogger.

          Sent from my iPod

      • logi says:

        Like I said cielo hipocrates.

      • Logi says:

        Ooops cielo tried to prevent that.

      • changsterdj says:


        let me get this straight

        I used the word “Nigga” in the past & the way I heard it to be used, I was under the presumption that it meant something else and used it regularly as a youth and was called “my nigga” as well


        only black people can call me “nigga”

        & since there is a percentage of puerto ricans, not all boriquas, it means all boriquas have a pass to use the word

        and I should, according to u, fly to Oakland, repeat the word “Nigga” like a broken record because you want me to get in a violent altercation with people in Oakland

        Okay so Boriquas were once African slaves…

        And allegedly I am telling you or all blacks how to feel, although my post was tailored specifically to u

        Btw dick ridin or bein on someone’s nuts is not a literal term

        I am also thinking you are Robert Zimmerman Jr trying divert the real issue of this case

        Racism is a doctrine

      • Jun says:


        That is what I mean

        Sure I made a photobucket out of two racial slurs about 10 years ago and my intention was that my understanding was that it was used in a different manner than the traditional approach, mainly due to hip hop culture and modern day mixing of various cultures of people

        so yes, I grew up with all sorts of people, and I was brought to believe that the word “nigga” is used differently than the traditional “nigger”

        I do not feel you can compare how I am using it to what the Fogenhats family is using racism in their dialogue

        Sure, it offended Logi (whom I have no idea who it is, it could be Robbie Junior for all I know)

        I do not get how it is compared to what the Fogenhats activity… Hell No

        i aint no bloodclot racist, nor ever will be

        I can understand Logi’s objection, but perhaps she just is not used to the new generation

        It was something I used as a youth and I stopped using that photobucket on here because of the misunderstandings

        BTW Racism is a doctrine where you believe someone of a certain race is inferior and should be victimized and I do not see where I have presented myself as that

        • cielo62 says:

          Jun- language is a living thing. It changes over time. Who knew that ” gay” just used to mean happy? In all those Christmas sings wishing us to be gay are NOT urging people to become homosexuals! 🙂 Language changes. Logi can be offended all it wants. The truth is that word meant something different 10 years ago and will mean something different 10 years from now.

          Sent from my iPod

      • Jun says:


        That is a good point

        I was not trying to be offensive to anyone

        I was trying to explain my usage of the word as my photobucket handle

        If anyone was offended, my bad, but I do not even use those words, it was just an old photobucket

        Language is weird though

        For example Fag is a mean thing to say to gay guys, but Fag means cigarette in England I heard

    • Malisha says:

      It’s interesting. The FogenFamily and the NRA nuts all repeat the same mantra: SELF-DEFENSE, SELF-DEFENSE, SELF-DEFENSE over and over. Yet they don’t want Blacks to use any self-defense. Even the idea of Trayvon Martin using his HANDS in self-defense against an armed stranger offended them. Gee, it must be that self-defense is a privilege, not a right, and that it is a privilege of only certain privileged people, right? Very confusing, ain’t it?

  56. Diane says:

    I haven’t seen comments from Hannity, Geraldo, Jeralyn, or Alan D. lately. Is it possible that they are reconsidering their positions?

    • Jun says:

      I do not believe deep down Hannity or Geraldo support Zimmernuts and they were simply trying to milk the issue for media attention…

      In fact, I would not doubt if Hannity was purposely screwing Zimmernuts with the interview

      As for Dershowitz, he is a whiny hypocrite who is an attention whore, and he knows that he could get sued for what he said so he kept quiet since then

      • gblock says:

        I doubt that Hannity was purposely screwing GZ with the interview. I watched and I remember thinking that Hannity was playing softball with him – asking the easy questions, not questioning GZ’s version of things, not asking stuff based on another view even when the question should have been obvious. But, I suppose at least some of that might have been a condition of him getting the interview.

      • leander22 says:

        I don’t think he screwed or tried to screw Fogen in any way.

        But I think that at one point or the other he may have been wondering himself.

      • Malisha says:

        Hannity was totally on Fogen’s side, he didn’t even FEED him softball questions, he gave him “questions” that were really ANSWERS designed to make him look pure, perfect, innocent and terribly put upon by an unruly death-needing young Black male, and STILL Fogen managed to screw it up. Fogen was too dumb to understand what to do with the questions Hannity fed him, that’s why it came out to the prosecutor’s big advantage. At one point I saw Hannity’s eyes widen and I thought I could hear him think, “Idiot, I just handed him a perfect question and he ruined it!”

        Hannity would have liked to see Fogen walk, but that is not going to happen and Hannity is not going to court embarrassment.

      • Jun says:

        It was inadvertent but he did screw Fogenhats and he was just using Fogenhats for ratings

        Hannity had a messed up look on his face, like he was like WTF

    • Malisha says:

      Diane, HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!! They even stopped screaming about the illegal conduct of the prosecutor! 😆

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Jeralyn Merritt claims she’s waiting for more evidence and for the legal system to proceed, or something to that effect.

      • leander22 says:

        There is no evidence that Jeralyn changed her mind. None. She still expects Fogen to walk, or to be acquitted. Strictly she followed “the Dersh” from the start. She was never interested in what really happened, she was only interested in what prosecution can prove without a witness called Trayvon Martin. “They” (including Jeralyn) do not need to repeat their positions, they are firmly established. “They” are firmly anti-DeeDee too. Obviously DeeDee’s statements would have been much more significant if she had contacted police and been questioned before the release of Fogen’s NEN call.

    • Malisha says:

      Yeah, how come Hannity isn’t paying for that decent family’s security? Bad Hannity, Bad Hannity!

  57. sunnieday7 says:


  58. Diane says:

    Perhaps the KKK or Aryan Brotherhood will offer their free services to GZ.
    If no one provides security, maybe he didn’t need it in the first place. Supporters, who don’t have money, could donate their free time.

    • well we’ve been asking forever, why does that great American family have any financial or security problems in the first place? You’d think with their many fine supporters they’d have plenty of places to live and people falling all over themselves, screaming “pick me, pick me” to be the zimmerman’s security guards!

      i mean really, maybe they haven’t checked their messages or something? maybe the mail got lost. but i’m just positive there’s tons of great americans just like them who would take a bullet for them, right?

      • shannon……I was over at the outhouse earlier..Not a word about donations or even a fundraiser for fogen. No one even mentioned the idea of getting together and traveling to FL to protect their hero……hmmmmm….lol

      • leander22 says:

        This seems to be the most extensive article on the security matters lawsuit.

        Lawsuit reveals details of George Zimmerman’s hideout plan, Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel,

      • Malisha says:

        Well if each of the persons who signed the pro-Fogen White House petition would send a dollar to Fogen now, he’d have enough to buy toilet paper from now until trial…unless…

      • jo says:

        yes, and with all these supporters i’m sure someone is a business owner or boss who could easily employ him so he can earn a living like the rest of us instead of having a free ride. His wife should be able to get a job easily in her chosen field and would not be recognizable to 99 per cent of people, especially with a new hair cut or color. These people don’t want to work. I’m sure there would be someone happy to house them for free too. With all the money that has been donated and on 40k spent on security and none to the defense yet they must be living the good life if they have no money left.

    • leander22 says:

      The whole security stuff sounded a bit megalomaniac to me from the start. Some here have pointed out that he went into cover or stood with Osterman long before there was any threat. So one has to ask oneself is it some kind of guilt externalization.

      On another note, does anyone remember a video by LLMPapa were Fogen’s story about his attempts to not shoot his left hand while aiming at Martin surfaces to help me understand. I am always puzzled by that. If anyone has experience with guns generally or can explain it to me what this means, I’d appreciate help in this context. Only question marks in my head surrounding that topic.

      • Xena says:

        On another note, does anyone remember a video by LLMPapa were Fogen’s story about his attempts to not shoot his left hand while aiming at Martin surfaces to help me understand. I am always puzzled by that.

        That statement made by GZ is layered in meanings.
        The first layer is that he was doing something with his left hand which placed it in the path he was aiming.

        The second layer is that he had control of his left-hand and arm and was not pinned.

        The third layer is that he was consciously aware, including that he intended to shoot and wanted a clean shot.

        The fourth is that his left hand was not to his left side but somewhere in the center of Trayvon’s upper body, or there would be no need to make sure he got it out of the path of the bullet.

      • leander22 says:

        Thanks, Xena, that helps a lot, at least it feels. It somehow made no sense to me. I can understand you want to shoot with both hands, but I never understood why, if you decide you shoot with one, you need to get or other hand out of the way or take care you don’t hit it. …

        do you remember were exactly he said it?

      • Two sides to a story says:

        Fogen’s narrative shows that he grabbed Trayvon’s hoody when he aimed and fired, otherwise he wouldn’t have had to get his hand out of the way.

      • bettykath says:

        I think it was in the interview just before he did the voice stress test.

      • blushedbrown says:

        LLMPapa video uploaded 4 months ago, I think this is the one you are looking for…..

      • Jun says:

        having been in fights before, without any weapons, just bare handed…

        it is extremely difficult to leisurely just move your left hand out of the way and then move another forward, in close quarters combat

        In a close quarters combat with a gun, a person struggling to get a gun not pointed at them is a hard fight in that distance

        So the act of him being able to just leisurely move his hand out of the way and aim and shoot with a direct shot to the heart, the defendant obviously had control at that point, like he has since the beginning of the whole incident

        In fact, it matches the forensic evidence…

        The hoodie and undershirt of the victim, had to be pulled downward and to the left, and pulled towards the defendant by the defendant, as that is the only way the holes in the shirt would line up with the chest GS wound, and match the different readings of the chest wound showing that the gun was at intermediate range, but the gun only showed to have made contact with the hoodie when fired

        The simple act of the defendant pulling the victim towards himself to shoot the victim, evidences that the victim was just trying to get away still and the defendant was pulling the victim towards him to shoot him, hence, the defendant was the one who wanted the altercation still

        • @Jun:

          Can we all say, “AMEN?” That is exactly what transpired! StateoftheInternet produced a video entitled, “Bullte Holes.” Trent Sawyer went on to descibe the trajectory of the bullet, and what most likely transpired. The victim was trying to get away, but couldn’t because the lunatic was holding onto to Trayvon. He shot him at close range. He had that gun pressed up against his heart, shattering his heart chanbers and collapsing his lungs. I don’t really understand how G could state that he had to move his hand out of the way to avoid shooting it. G lies so much anyway. The forensics is what is going to do him in.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Anyone who has fought with someone else, even if only in play, or by contest, knows or quickly learns that, there is no utility in grabbing and holding an opponent — of any kind, shape or size — by holding on to their clothing at the chest, over the center of their mass.

            The only time or way that maneuver is done, is when the opponent is offering absolutely no resistance at all. Otherwise that hand, that would be grasping the clothing, is better employed defending or offending the opponent hand for hand.

            Put another way, there is nothing that a grip on your opponents clothing, over their center chest, is going to afford you, in a combat situation. You go one hand down for a silly and ineffective objective!
            In a dangerous situation, you simply can’t bring yourself to do it.

            Thus, GZ, by grabbing TM by the clothing over his center chest, is signalling that he has gain total superiority over an opponent who is offering no resistance at all. It is under just such a condition, that GZ decides to fire a lethal shot into the body of the defenseless child.

            Any and all combat specialists, of all types, as well as psychologists and other skilled, and/or credentialed people in the field, will agree that this final position, indicates that GZ faced no threat, nor even any resistance. The hold he had on Trayvon’s clothing, expresses that GZ knew he was in absolutely no danger at all. Otherwise, he could not and would not put his hand there.
            In short: GZ is Toast!!!

      • leander22 says:

        Thanks, blushedbrown, I think I made sure that my hand wasn’t in the way, or close to that.

        I still don’t understand why he needed to make sure his hand wasn’t in the way. Are there any gun experts that can explain to what extend this could be a stereotype?

        • blushedbrown says:



          I think I made sure that my hand wasn’t in the way, or close to that.

          I still don’t understand why he needed to make sure his hand wasn’t in the way.

          If you are suppose to be in “fear for your life”, what he says suggest to many people including me that he had “control”. Meaning there was no need to shoot. He actually made a conscious thought not to SHOOT his hand in order to make sure he got the right shot through Trayvon’s heart. This statement alone, IMO deserves, Murder One.

          IIRC, murder one needs premeditation. It can be a moment, or weeks, months or years even. Most people think and I also believe the State of Florida believes that charge would be harder to prosecute. It is easier for people on a jury to interepet Murder One with some planning as in days or weeks, not moments before the killing. Hence the Murder 2 charge. JMO

        • @Leander22:

          Even though I learned how to shoot guns professionally while I served in the Military, I do not consider myself an expert because I don’t practice now, but I know how to shoot a gun. My theory is this: Z had to be holding onto TM with his right hand and he shot TM with his left hand since he is left handed and that is his dominant hand. His had to have been pulling on his hoodie and the shirt he on underneath. He made a conscious effort to SHOOT this kid! If he had to think about not shooting his own hand, that means he could have spared this kid, but GZ was enraged, angry and had only one thing in mind, and that was to shoot TM before the SPD arrived on the scene. The kid was screaming bloody murder and he needed to shut him up. What kind of monster would shoot a teenage kid, who was begging and pleading for his life right to your face? Premeditated? I call that premeditation. He had to think about what he was doing before he did it.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            This assumes that GZ is telling us the truth about that portion of the story. Why should we believe even this little bit? We’ve seen that he alters every other part of his story to make it serve himself. Why shouldn’t we assume that this section is not also a self serving contrivance?

            Let’s strip it down to the barest facts that we know: GZ was holding and pulling on TM’s clothing, when he decided to pull the trigger.

            This talk about him having to avoid hitting his other hand is silly, because, he’d have to be grabbing and holding TM’s garments with a grip over TM’s heart, close to center chest.

            Now, picture GZ, or anyone else, with a center chest grip on the clothing of an opponent. Isn’t that a pretty aggressive thing to do? Grab someone by the clothes center chest and hold? It’s certainly not something anyone, engaged in struggling/fighting would do. Their hands would be occupied with countering the movements of the hands of their opponent, and also trying to work against any anticipated movements as well.

            Once an adversary can devote one hand to the non-combative action, of grabbing and holding clothes of the adversary at center chest. That says that their opponent is no longer fighting, if they ever were at all.

            I don’t care how many fights or wrestling matches one sees, they will never see one where, one of the actors, grabs the adversary by the center chest clothes, until they have gained absolute mastery over their subject.

            That means that GZ had absolute mastery and control over TM, even before he drew or aimed his weapon. Or his other hand would not have been used to grip Trayvon’s clothing at all. The priority, the utility and/or the effectiveness of such an action, is too low to occur against any kind of combative resistance.

            Obviously, GZ says what he does, to make things appear to be the result of chaos. Chaotic actions taken with him on the ground, on the bottom and struggling against a combatant. This lie only fails, because the trajectory proves, he could not have fired this shot from that position.

            Not only will a combatant, not let you aim your weapon at his center mass, while fighting you. You are not going to devote one of your hands to merely holding onto him. Since that hand is going to be needed to fend off the anticipated struggle for the weapon. Any shot to be fired, under such circumstances, will be the first sure shot available. Not a shot that requires one to achieve any certain position.

            So, GZ’s grip on TM’s clothing, over his center of mass, says that there was no fighting at that point in time. Just dominance and submission. A person in a dominant position doesn’t scream in terror for his very life, while he is dominating another person and has control of a firearm as well. But then, we’ve worked that point to a frazzle.

      • leander22 says:

        OK, I didn’t close the italics. But it seems I do not need to send the typical message to stop them here.

      • Lynn says:

        @ blushedbrown

        I don’t know if you follow or have heard of the Dunn/Davis murder case in Jacksonville,Florida (Corey’s District), but they decided to go murder1 for him. He shot a teenager in a SUV at a convenient store because his music was too loud. (Claims the teen had a shotgun.) His premeditation/planning stage was mere seconds. Zimmerman should consider himself lucky he wasn’t tried murder1.

    • Jun says:

      The KKK would still consider him a border hopper to be perfectly honest with their thoughts

  59. Malisha says:

    Professor Leatherman, thank you for distilling that into an excellent article. I am sending the url for this thread to everyone I know with an interest in this case. Your article tells them why they will receive it; this is the most significant issue in the case, in my opinion. The second most significant issue in the case is the SPD, and the fact that they are left functioning while it is obvious that they all cooperated in a cover-up. I would, however, like to reassess Detective Serino’s part in all this in light of his three drafts of the memo leading up to the capias that issued on March 13. There is a real story there!

  60. Lito says:

    I agree fully professor. Fogens story didn’t make sense from the start. Hence the outrage of people of all colors protesting. And the true racists and also people who don’t know much about black people fell for the gangsta movie late night rerun story that the defendant told. I never added up before and now that more evidence is revealed it’s disgusting that he wasn’t arrested that night. Trayvons phone and the defendants flashlight compared to his story is probable cause enough for me

    • ladystclaire says:

      Lito, let me tell you, I’m so thankful for all of those people of all colors who protested in order to get this fool arrested. if it had not been for them and all of those from other countries who signed that petition, he would have surely got away with this murder. those who just turned him out into the night with his gun as well as his father, well they should be charged with obstruction of justice. also, his father is one of the racist blogging on the huffington post.

      Letjusticeprevail is his user name and, he is the reason that Fogen has never been held accountable for his crimes that he has committed before. he is also the reason for Fogen thinking that he is above the law because of who his father is. well, Letjusticeprevail will not be able to get him out of this!

      • @ladystclaire:

        I have had my encounters with LJP, who contradicts “himself” at every turn! I let him know that I was not afraid of him and that GZ is a not only mentally ill, but a socio-path and as a parent, he is responsible for unleashing this menace to society! He had the nerve to reply to me in private and I had to let him know in no uncertain terms that he had the wrong one!! I let him know that he is the one responsible for the death of TM because he ocvered up and hid GZ’s past!

        He may not have pulled the trigger, but he is just as responsible. Instead of committing his troubled son, he chose to ignore his irresponsible, irrational, psycho behavior. I told him not to reply to me again, but of course like his son, he does not follow a directive! I just ignore him and continue to write what I please!

        • ladystclaire says:

          LJP is none other than the father of the Murderer himself and, it’s very telling by the way he comments, using Fogan’s name. this is something that no one else on that site does. I don’t care any more for his family than I do for him and, in fact I hate them all because they think what he did to Trayvon was right. I don’t in any way mean no harm but, I have often wondered if any of the parents who lost children at Sandy Hook thought what he did was justified and right. please don’t think bad of me but, I can’t help but wonder. BTW, I HOPE YOU HAD A NICE CHRISTMAS AND, I WISH YOU A VERY HAPPY AND BLESSED 2013. LADY

          • @ladystclaire:

            Wishing you a Happy New Year too! Yes, I long suspected that LJP is GZ’s daddy. I noticed that he is the only poster who uses G’s name and who would do that but a parent? He definitely dislikes everything that I state to him and he has the nerve to respond to me in private??. I blame him and his wife for ignoring G’s mental illness, and I blame him for covering up his sons crimes, for trying to get the police and the States Attorney to cover up this crime and that I hope Angela Corey and the state will investigate him and Wolfinger for Obstruction of Justice and Witness Tampering!

            I have asked LJP repeatedly to post a copy of G’s medical records. I am still wating BTW! He knows that they don’t exist, and he knows that G’s injuries do not match his version of what he claims transpired! The jury will want to see the medical documentation, plus x-rays, Ct. Scans, MRI’s, Physicians notes and the medical diagnosis and prognosis and they are going to find it awfully suspicious that the defense cannot produce these documents.This man is a complete fool and fraud!

      • leander22 says:

        LJP is none other than the father of the Murderer himself

        How do you know? Other than he is somebody that feels Fogen has to be innocent to keep his mental universe intact?

  61. Lady2Soothe says:

    Dear Professor (or someone who’s in the know),

    Sorry I’m off subject… From an HP post by a Fogen Fan. She claims “There won’t be an immunity hearing until April 2013. The discovery and pre-trial process has not yet concluded. The judges cannot grant immunity sua sponte”.

    From my understanding of Rule 41 “The court cannot grant use immunity sua sponte under the immunity statute”. But the definition of “sua spontea” is a judge’s order made without a request by any party to the case.

    Would you please be so kind as to clear this up.
    Thank you

    • I believe Judge Nelson scheduled the trial date for June 10, 2013 and told defense counsel that their deadline to request an immunity hearing is 45 days before that date, or sometime in April. She gave them a specific date in April, but I do not recall it.

      • Lady2Soothe says:

        Thank you Professor for responding so quickly…. Sorry I’m rather new at reading legalese. Rule 41 and immunity sua sponte appear complete oposites.

        Is it true “The judges cannot grant immunity sua sponte”?

        Thank you

      • Malisha says:

        There probably is some procedure whereby some judge in some case could “grant immunity sua sponte” (meaning when it had not been requested) but that would not seem possible once there has been a judicial determination that there was probable cause to arrest the defendant for the charge. In this case, there has already been a judicial determination of probable cause so I think it is impossible, procedurally, for there to be a sudden sua sponte grant of immunity to the defendant.

      • Lady2Soothe says:

        Thank you Professor and Malisha. Never sure when it comes to legality if Zero Whoreshippers are BS’ing, twisting, plain flat-out lying or possibly stating a fact.

      • Nefertari05 says:

        Prof Leatherman, lady2sooth is right. It has nothing to do with legal. It’s about YOU. It’s about you doing it for the money only and being mercenary like O’Mara.

        And even when a TROLL who never posted before laughed at me (you), I still couldn’t get anyone to take me seriously. After Crane Station’s meltdown and your justifiable anger,I don’t understand the laissez faire. I just DON”T. I came to warn the blog, and most of who know me as nefertari05, know I don’t lie. I posted (as always PROOF!). Many will vouch for me.

        I posted the posts and the hackers are locking down uploads. I copied/patesed their post/my response as of that time. (app 10 +/_). I came here in 2 minutes to warn you, you might be hacked, and somehow I became a big joke! FINE! I’d rather have “friends” who are loyal. than the most despicable opposite. DON’T think I don’t realize that it you don’t get hacked, it because I WARNED YOU~

      • Eric says:

        Can the immunity hearing be waived?

      • Nefertari05 says:

        You’re absolutely right, Professor. The question to ask is not the hearing,trial, “sua sponte” issues. It’s whether the fake poster can impersonate you enough to make it appear you don’t know what you’re talking about and thus use your fake post as proof of your deligitimacy in law.

        No more benefit of the doubt. Think like a SCORPIO and ask Crane Station. She’s a lady and I’ll bet she’ll see through all the BS. That women’s intuition is serious stuff.

  62. Kelly Payne says:

    I never believed his story the first time i heard it. No teenage boy who is alone at night in the dark in a strange neighborhood is going to attack a man whose heavier and stronger than him with out a weapon or help.Trayvon knew if Zimmerman did something he would have no chance,which is why he ran. Unfortunately for him he had no way of knowing Zimmerman would get out of his truck and come after him,or he would have kept running.It would have been impossible for Trayvon to have done the things Zimmerman claims he did. It also would have been impossible for Zimmerman to yell for help while Trayvon was supposedly beating him like he claims.I know from experience.My head was also slammed against a concrete wall a couple of times maybe more than that because i lost consciousness.I was a light weight i tried to defend myself but i was on the losing end of it. Trayvon was a light weight he wasn’t a serious threat to Zimmerman. He could have let Trayvon go,he chose to kill him instead.

    • Dewayne G says:

      Hey Kelly Zimmerman gonna have a hard time proving Trayvon knew he got out of his truck and Trayvon hid cause he thought GZ was still in his truck. Y would a person come back and confront a person who is driving a truck? Again Trayvon had a disadvantage. That poor kid didn’t have a chance

  63. Jun says:

    I feel if Zimmernuts was gonna stalk and kill a white kid, he would have made up a different lie to fit white criminal stereotypes, but he would still make up the attack on him because the defendant is simply a manipulative person… He would do the same to an Asian person, or even a Latino person

    I believe what made this case so huge was the massive inaction of certain members of SPD, the small group of racists left in this country, gun nuts afraid of losing their “penis”, and the huge majority simply saw it for what it was – an adult stalking and threatening a teenage boy who was unarmed and the adult tried to make up lies that the teenage boy was a burglar and that is why he stalked him and killed him

    Judging from the police dispatcher’s question, it seems most of the population there is black, white or hispanic… or only those groups are perceived to commit crimes according to SPD

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I agree, Jun – I think Fogen was bound to bring someone down and it could have been anyone, even if he did have a special disregard for young black males.

      • Jun says:

        If you look at his history, the guy is simply a predator

        whether it was his Arab coworker

        his ex whom he assaulted

        the dog he kicked

        the cops he attacked and assaulted

        the mexicans he talked about committing acts of violence against and disparaged

        the little boy whom Fogenhats terrorized and stalked and accused of stealing his bike when even the cops confirmed it was never stolen

        the threats he embedded onto residents within that complex on his “patrols”

        The guy is dangerous to anyone

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Jun, it’s very shameful on the part of the SPD of how they allowed this fool to make call after call crying wolf for things that didn’t really matter. he called LE for any and everything and, they just obliged him and therefore he continued. I’m surprised that someone didn’t really punch him in his nose for not minding his own business. Fogen couldn’t even hold down a job, because he had to be at home or in his vehicle calling LE and reporting on folks.

        the fool even called LE on his rent collector as if to say they were breaking the law because, they wanted his back rent. he is crazy but, he still know right from wrong and, he knew he was wrong in his killing of a child and, that is why he went into hiding immediately. Fogen, you are going to have to hide for the rest of your miserable life!

    • Eric says:

      I have to disagree a little. Zimmerman would never have stalked a white person.

      • Malisha says:

        I agree with you, Eric. He was, in my opinion, proving to his neighborhood that he was one of the elite, that he should be allowed to patrol with a gun, that the problem was young pBhlack males, and that he needed to show them that and bring in a young pBhlack male to gain his rightful place in society. He would not have found a white kid walking along in the rain suspicious. Had he seen him with “his hand in his waistband” he would have thought the kid was checking on his gun to protect himself from young pBhlack males, and he would have identified with the kid and thought, “right on; he NEEDS a gun; you never know when a suspect will show up around here.”

      • Jun says:


        But I do not believe it would stop the Fogenhats from victimizing a white person to be honest

  64. Tzar says:

    Another excellent and poignant article.

  65. Professor, i am here to proclaim WAR against racism in all forms. If that means i won’t be around some or all of my remaining family members so be it. If it means i will protest wrong teachings in my kid’s school so be it. I’ll not just sit there and accept racism or bigotry and make it someone else’s job. It’s OUR job to bring it out in the open and demand it’s death!

    There’s been a shift in my personal consciousness and awareness and i will never be the same. I’m glad.

    • cielo62 says:

      Shannoninmiami- I know exactly what you mean. Almost anybody over 50 has deeply imbedded images and racism. I, too, am dragging them out. BTW send a hug to your little guy! I still see his face when I read your handle.

  66. Santrina says:

    Excellent! I have followed this case from the beginning. You literally have to suspend common sense and logic to believe fogen many lies. The evidence speaks for itself and to come to any other conclusion about fogen guilt is delusional. I believe a person is innocent until proven guilty, but that does not mean I suspend reality when obvious lies are put forth as truth to justify murdering an innocent 17 year old child.

  67. MichelleO says:

    I am often left stunned at the descriptions of caucasian offenders and how they are left intact with their humanity, even when they commit the most heinous crimes. For instance, Adam Lance and his mother, Nancy, will never be torn apart in regards to their ancestry, parentage, or history. Their humanity will not be questioned and they will never be reduced to their sexual body parts, nor compared to dangerous beasts—-with the dangerous beasts coming out on top as the more deserving of the two species.

    • it’s disgusting and every time when and if it’s within my power, anyone who says those things will be labeled as a racist and treated as such- it’s time for them to be yanked kicking and screaming out of their closet!

    • @MichelleO:
      Hi Michelle O! I remember you from HP! I am under a different screen-name. Yes, it is incredible how America, labels, categorizes and generalizes blacks as “thugs and criminally inclined, brutish, demons, hooligans” and whites who murder wtihout provocation are labeled as “mentally ill”, or misunderstood, abused,” and excuses are made for their criminal behavior. One black commits a crime and the entire ethnic group is stereotyped as “CRIMINAL” and racist comments are made, but when whites do the same thing, it is an individual thing, and you don’t hear racist comments made like, “You know those white thugs! They are all the same. Animals! What do you expect? Born that way. Breed that way!”

      Yes, Professor and posters that is what we here frm racists, all the while overlooking the criminal behavior of whites. It is vile and disgusting the way TM is portrayed and stereotyped. The compassion of white victims is never questioned but TM receives no compassion. Only from the posters on here, liberal whties, and just liberal people in general.

      • ladystclaire says:

        This IMO is what makes this country not so great, when you have fellow Americans acting in this manner towards a murder victim simply because of the color of his skin. people in other countries are saying the very same thing.

        racism in this country will never be a thing of the past, as long as some parents teach their children how to hate people of other races and religions. what is so great about a country when there are citizens such as the free George Zimmerman group, who are calling him a hero and saying that he ought to be given a medal for killing an African American child.

        I have even read on the same HP site, where some people have even said, that the world is a better place without Trayvon in it. one blogger over there keeps referring to the fact that Fogen is not six feet under. why would a web site allow such as this to be posted on their site? it just lets me know, that they allow it because these Idiots are saying what they want to say but can’t. Trayvon was just a child and, he never harmed anybody. when the time comes for these people to meet their maker, they are going to have a very long and painful death and, they will be very deserving of it. people of African descent are human beings to.

        these people will never make me feel ashamed of who and what I am!

        • @ladyst.claire:

          The dystunctional idiots who utter those words, should not be given the time of day. They should be dismissed. They are sidk and demented. I was very proud to join the military back in the day,and sere the U.S. To hear and see the racism and bigotry uttered towards blacks and TM is a travesty. I have life long friends from Japan and Germany who are so saddened to see how racism thrives in America, and yet, the U.S. continues to criticize other countries for their Communism and they way they treat its citizens, and yet America has no respect for its own POTUS! Such hypocrisy!

          Black Americans have done nothing to warrent this hateful, spiteful attitude. From the minute slavery was ebolished, the hateful, racists who wanted to keep blacks in their place, implemented hate groups and started to terriorize blacks in order to keep them frearful and subservient to the whims of whites. It is so very sad that people like this exist.

      • Eric says:

        My sentiments exactly! This is why I believe Zimmerman will walk. His supporters don’t believe he’s innocent, they believe that Zimmerman has done a public service. The only good black is a dead black mentality.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Not entirely so. The Lanza brother was threatened online before the killer’s real identity surfaced. I’ve read plenty of ugly offhand comments about the Lanzas. However, it’s true they’re not treated as vilely as blacks often still are.

      • ladystclaire says:

        And they never will be! they can go out and shoot up a school full of kids or, a movie theater and never be treated in the same manner as blacks are treated. even 9/11 didn’t change some people in this country and, those who caused that event were not treated in a vile manner.

        we are what GOD made us, just like these white racist are what he made them. he never made them the racist that they are and, as we all know they are taught this from birth by their parents.

        • cielo62 says:

          In this case I beg to differ. Muslims were vilified; even people who just LOOKED middle eastern, were targeted after sept 11. They’re just not white enough…

          Sent from my iPod

      • I disagree…I’ve seen a lot of nasty comments about the Lanzas, especially the mother, recently. I guess it all depends on where all you read and comment, but Facebook has a lot of pages where Nancy Lanza is definitely being vilified for being a gun enthusiast, and teaching her son Adam to shoot guns, and leaving the guns in a place where he could get them. A lot of blame is being placed there.

      • ladystclaire says:

        He was not on his way to Target and the police chief and others @ SPD came up with that lie for him. I read that some where shortly after this all happened but, I can’t remember where. it was done due to the fact that they did not want it known, that he was doing NW duties while carrying a gun in the process. “HE WAS NOT GOING TO TARGET”!

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Cielo62, I did not say that muslims as a group were not vilified for 9/11. I’m talking about the guys who flew those planes. they were in on way vilified and that is the truth. those people in this country who hate blacks will never change and so goes the country, racism will always be a part of this country by people who came here and took it from the true Americans, the Indians.

      • Jun says:

        It was a tough time for even South Asians

        Middle Easterns or West Asians, are the actual race of the terrorist group that bombed the buildings (obviously not all), however, to a racist person, they are not gonna see that difference between South Asians vs West Asians

        I heard of some hate crimes towards even Sikhs, Punjabis, and simple Indian folks

    • ladystclaire says:

      MichelleO, I know exactly how you feel because, I’m sick and tired of the way these *RACIST WHITES* are disrespecting Trayvon and his family. some of this BS actually brings tears to my eyes, just knowing that some people in this country can be so *evil* I wish this Judge will see fit to release the criminal’s text/email messages, just so his faithful *racist* can really see him for what he really is. she also needs to keep to the trial date and not allow the defense to delay it’s start because they are not ready. MOM needs to stay off of the internet and out of other media venues as well and, work on his client’s defense.

      • Dewayne G says:

        I heard Zimmerman friend Frank Taaffe said in a interview GZ was on his nightly rounds(NHW duties) and even heard him say GZ approached Trayvon and asked what’s his business here and all Trayvon had to do was answer George saying he was visiting his mom. These are Frank Taaffe statements they’re on youtube. Trayvon didn’t have to answer to anybody he did not know.

      • Jun says:

        we gotta keep fighting till the end because it really is not over till the fat lady sings…

        The defendant is still semi free at present

      • leander22 says:

        because it really is not over till the fat lady sings…

        i haven’t read that for a long time. 😉

        I am always slightly jealous when I try to trace the origin of such proverbs in my own language since we do not have the equivalent of the OED, not Concise Oxford dictionary/a>< I think, but as always I may be wrong.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Here’s some proof that people like Adam Lanza and the Lanza family do get raked over the coals – brought to you by the lovely treeper and rabid Fogen supporter,, Mr. Sanchez, aka Diwataman.

      • @Two Sides to a story:

        The Lanza family, namely the mom and the son, will be raked thru the coals for Adam’s horrific crime. but NOT because of his ethnic group whatever that may be. Adam Lanza will not be labeled as a brute or caricatured or portrayed as a black men would. To the racist, a black man is innately savage, animalistic, destructive, and criminal, and deserving of punishment, even death. Black men since slavery have been portrayed as brutes, fiends, sociopaths, an labeled an anti-social menace.

        I have not heard Adam Lanza branded a “thug” despite his henious crime. Instead, the discussions have bordered on gun control, and mental illness and not about his past exploits. Racists, like GZ and family just how America operates, and they are able to peddle this BS to racists whites because they know that is who racist whites think and what they believe about black men as whole. This is also why MOM wanted the school records of TM. So he could exploit whatever youthful transgressions he made as a teenager. Fortunately, the only transgressions he could find have already been released to the public and it is nothing that I, or any of you have been guilty of as teenagers ourselves. GZ almost was able to get away with the crime of murder because of this institutionalized racism in America and its perception of black men.

      • Jun says:

        In all honesty

        Lanza is not called a thug

        but he is called a psychopath

        • cielo62 says:

          I think psychopath is nicer than thug. “Psychopath” connotes a mental illness over which one has no control. A “thug” is a person who chooses to be evil. That’s still a racial double standard.

          Sent from my iPod

  68. blushedbrown says:

    Excellent post Professor.
    Thank you for your blog and your continuing efforts on bringing light to dark.

  69. Vicky says:

    Bravo professor! I couldn’t agree more.

    • Nefertari05 says:

      Sorry Vicky, I believe I needed to be first. I scanned but I Don’t see anything. HuffPo has posted the following, I posted my reponses:

      Professor Leatherman
      0 Fans
      Become a fan
      2 hours ago ( 8:41 PM)
      If you like what I have to say, and want to hear more of it, then please click that yellow button. I should be compensated for my activism.
      Favorite (0)Flag as Abusive
      Permalink | Share it .

      Will not negotiate with tearrorists
      1029 Fans
      0 second ago (10:30 PM)
      This comment is pending approval and won’t be displayed until it is approved.

      NOT the prof. FAKE!!!
      Favorite (0)Flag as Abusive
      Share it .
      This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
      Professor Leatherman
      0 Fans
      Become a fan

      2 hours ago ( 8:39 PM)
      My adamant support for Trayvon Martin is sincerely and deeply felt. Your donations allow me to continue to passionately advocate for such a righteous cause. I am offering a service to you and I deserve to be compensated. It has become a second career for me.
      Favorite (0)Flag as Abusive
      Permalink | Share it .

      Will not negotiate with tearrorists .

      1029 Fans
      2 seconds ago (10:26 PM)
      This comment is pending approval and won’t be displayed until it is approved.

      This is NOT Prof Leatherman. It is a T30// trying to make the Prof look mercenary, which is the least thng he is.

      REPEAT: THIS IS A T30//. It is NOT the professor and the fact that they’re trying TOO hard to discredit him and LLMPapa only means they are SPOT ON! Suck on THAT Tr30//s! ”

      I felt the prof and cranne sation should know immediatetly before more. Although the time states 8pm +/-, I KNOW it was delayed and didn’t post until 10:30. FTR – though you may undrstand I am wroth on their behalf, let me state for the record I am FURIOUS. And, as one who has sen firsthand, the posts and responded to them, should they, in theirpeacloving wats decide that this is intolerable, I will be the first to sign up!!! I’m sure many more have seen it too. Prof, you may want to speak to HuffPo and I bet all of us, including LLMPapa will have your back! Crane goes without speculation of course. But, I am VERY angry they tried to malign you and make you a golddiger.
      Peace on Earth, Good will toward me! I am NOT felling it right now!

      • Judy75201 says:


      • Nefertari05 says:

        Your brother says it’s time for bed, troll. Did you think we wouldn’t know you for the trick you are?

      • ladystclaire says:

        I saw a comment on HP early yesterday in the AM where someone is using the professor’s name. there should be something that one can do about someone doing this kind of under handed BS and using the good name of someone else. these Fogen supporters are taking things too darn far when they start doing things like this.

      • When you are at HP, click on the imposters name which will take you to its profile page. To the right of its name (upper right-hand corner) are two choices: “Report Abusive Profile” and below that a “follow” choice. When you click on the “Report Abusive Profile”, you have to state why you are reporting them and why you want them banned. ( I just went there and did just that to that creep.) I’ve done that to another person who advocated and bragged about killing cats (he usually goes by the name “Woodsman 001”). They are usually banned for awhile but eventually find their way back on again… you ban them again.

      • An impostor is posing as me at the Huffington Post using the user name Prof Leatherman. I went to the site and flagged that user name explaining that someone was using my name without my permission to discredit me. I asked them to ban that person.

      • I wrote to Huffington Post and told them this was NOT the real Professor Leatherman.
        I got a reply telling me anyone can use any user name they want
        and there could be more than one Professor Leatherman.

        • Xena says:

          I got a reply telling me anyone can use any user name they want and there could be more than one Professor Leatherman.

          Doesn’t that just make you sick?! Then you take time to explain the content of the comment and how it is associated with your blog, or something you said.

          One person I know who was impersonated on Yahoo responded by posting comments to the impersonator then sending screen shots to Yahoo before the impersonator was banned — but Yahoo still let the impersonator’s comments remain. (SMH)

      • Malisha says:

        Hey let’s all blog in to HP using variations of the name “George.Zimmerman” such as “George.Mycool.Zimmerman” and “Cheorge.Lostmycool.Zimmerman” and etc. etc. and let’s go ahead in there and exercise our first amendment rights in the name of a descent American!

      • Nefertari05 says:

        I did so flag and report. That’s what took me two minutes to get hereand report. @ladystclaire – you are so right! @ greywintersky – it takes a lot for me to do that, last night did it, killing kittens would DEFINETELY do it, also the man with the noose avatar of the president among others. @prof Leatherman (& crane station), thereis a deeper threat here. I am not a consipacy theorist and wil explain at the bottom of the newest post. @Malisha – LOVE your posts. From the 313 so they hit home hard with me. In this case, however, I’d like to believe we are better than them.

      • Erica says:

        why don’t people counteract with the name and confuss people like Pro Leatherman or ProfessLeatherman, just create more since they wont get rid of it

      • Nefertari05 says:

        @Erica – it leads to the argument of which is the REAL one, and we all know they aren’t rational. Two on HP leads to no credibility. But, being able to quote and link him from here, gives him the credibilityhe’s earned.

      • Lady2Soothe says:

        Yesterday I saw, flagged and reported the troll posting as Professor Leatherman as well.

      • Jun says:

        They been doing to that to everyone.

      • truthforlisa says:

        I’m very angry about this too. I’ve been flagging every post from this sick individual and I’ve reported him twice. BTW, I go by mixologist74 over there on HP.

      • truthforlisa says:

        Ahh this is better. I feel better under this hat. LOL

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s