Judge Nelson Denies Defendant’s Motions to Modify and Clarify Conditions of Release in Trayvon Martin Murder Case: UPDATED with LLMPapa’s Latest Video

Tuesday, December 11, 1212

Judge Nelson denied the defendant’s motions to modify and to clarify the conditions of his release.

The defendant’s motion to modify the conditions of his release was a request to terminate GPS monitoring and lift the travel restrictions. After Mark O’Mara opened by asserting the defendant’s innocence and supporting that claim with his revisionist history of the case, including waving a document with color copies side by side of the two manipulated photographs of the front and back of the defendant’s head, Bernie de la Rionda mocked the request with a righteous rant about the defendant’s desire to travel so that he could appear in public and sell more copies of his autograph.

He also mentioned that Jose Baez had turned over two memos from Chris Serino dated early in the investigation when Serino and others were considering recommending that the defendant be charged with second degree murder.

Judge Nelson denied the motion without comment.

The defendant’s motion to clarify the conditions of his release was an effort to obtain permission to contact friends. Judge Nelson denied the motion noting that Judge Lester had imposed the conditions and there had not been any material change of circumstances to alter those conditions. She noted parenthetically that she did not see any prohibition in the order that would not allow him to contact his friends.

In other words, the motion was a waste of the court’s time.

An earlier motion asking the court to order the prosecution to disclose the identities of all witnesses who had identified the defendant as the person screaming in the background of the 911 call was resolved by agreement of the parties.

There was no argument about the defendant’s motion to seal the defendant’s emails, text messages and journal entries. Apparently, the motion was not timely and will be taken up at the next motions hearing.

The next motions hearing is scheduled for January 8, 2013.

UPDATE: LLMPapa’s latest video.

494 Responses to Judge Nelson Denies Defendant’s Motions to Modify and Clarify Conditions of Release in Trayvon Martin Murder Case: UPDATED with LLMPapa’s Latest Video

  1. Trina Cosbie says:

    I agree Malisha!! I felt like West was trying to get BDLR to ADMIT in court that the voice was Zimmerman’s, so they can say, “look even prosecution admitted it was Zimmerman’s”. MOM & West is throwing all kinds of ish out there, even if they confuse themselves in the process…lol

  2. Malisha says:

    No non-expert “identifying” a voice on tape is either Brady material OR evidence, in my opinion. Let’s say I know nothing about voice identification. Let’s say I hear something. Let’s say I think the person saying something is Trayvon Martin. Is my opinion about what I heard “evidence”? Not unless (a) I did something based on my recognition of the voice and I am on trial for doing that something that I did based on my recognition of the voice; or (b) I am a certified forensic expert qualified to opine on the origin of the voice or (c) I am someone who heard the voice, at the time, and thereupon concluded something, at the time, that had to do with my recognition of the voice. Such as: “I knew that I was hearing Trayvon Martin scream and that is why I called his father and told him about it,” or “I knew who was screaming so I called the police and told them who was screaming.”

    Otherwise, who cares which layperson thought the voice was Trayvon Martin and/or who did not? What can they possibly know about voice identification that occurred at a time when they were not present? What does it matter?

  3. probalance says:

    I just about died laughing when Zero’s eyes popped out while he was looking down and listening and Bernie mentioned ” possibly two voices “. That lasted like 2-3 seconds and he quickly remembered he was on camera and tried to appear normal or unfazed. Bernie was on it

  4. acemayo says:

    I would like someone tell me how to fight someone with getting
    his DNA on me, this GZ is like white man who shot wife and unborn
    bady, he in a black part town, high crime area, everyone believe
    in his story of an car jacking went wrong. It was so easy accepted
    that a black male did it, because he said so. He almost got away
    with it until someone ask if the shooter was in the back behind the woman why
    isn’t the angle of the bullet going striaght in.

  5. New Zimmerman evidence: Serino changed final report four times in five hours


    SANFORD – After Chris Serino, the Sanford police detective who led the investigation into the Trayvon Martin shooting death, wrote the most important police report in the case, he revised it at least four times.

    And he made at least one huge change: He initially said George Zimmerman should be charged with second-degree murder then changed course and recommended a charge of manslaughter, according to a prosecutor and new list of evidence.

    Serino made all those revisions to the report summarizing his findings during one five-hour stretch on March 13, according to a newly-released evidence list.

  6. acemayo says:

    The pain
    Sometime ago I hit my head on a low hanging pipe
    The pain brought me to my knees
    I couldn’t think at all
    I was hold my head hoping the pain will go away
    But I need be strong like GZ
    Because he can take pain
    Getting an head bashing against the concrete one after another
    Getting his nose broken and someone holding his nose down
    Pain is nothing to GZ
    Because if his head wasn’t being pound into the concrete
    His nose was being punched(broken nose)
    That’s pain.
    Than he gets punched in the face
    More pain
    But GZ is a strong man he was a bouncer
    Just because he pain was out of this world
    blood in his eyes
    boold in his throat
    cannot hardly breath
    If you’re into pain you need
    to get with GZ
    Somehow he can still……………………..

  7. acemayo says:

    Does GZ have any pictures of his back when at the police station
    Why takes pictures of george Z hands when he already wash them
    I no longer believe in all police shows or CSI
    Because that night they didn’t do anytime
    Even george underwear would have been very wet on the butt side
    If you watch a foot ball game and it raining or stopped raining
    If you fall into the grass, push into the grass you can see it
    Gives Gz his photo,s let talk about what’s not there
    There is nothing new under the sun somebody somewhere
    Has been beaten like GZ said he was
    I bet over 10 thousands
    Get thiers pictures of what they look like after the fight
    And what look like minutes, hours, or days after the fight
    Then look at GZ pictures
    GZ cannot get away from cause and effect
    If TM cause all that damage
    What is the effect on his body
    If GZ head was hit on sidewalk
    think of the effect
    on GZ head

    • Eric says:

      Poor Mama Zim is delusional. Now, according to her, George had his head “bust” open, and thats on top of having his face smashed into the sidewalk so sayeth Omara. All that brutality and yet his ambulance was cancelled and he simply went to his family physician the next day to see a PA.

      • jm says:

        I would love just once if an interviewer would stop throwing softball questions and ask WHY did not Chorge see a physician in a hospital setting if he feared for his life because of the alleged injuries. I don’t care how old Mama Z is, if she chooses to make statements, there should be follow up questions, even if they may make her uncomfortable.

      • @Eric $ Jm:

        “Medical report; Altamonte Family Practice,; Zimmerman, George Mon 02/27/2012
        one superficial scalp wound 10.5cm (3/16″)_____
        one superficial scalp wound 12.0cm (3/4″)__________
        neither required sutures or covering
        “likely” broken nose, based on observation. No xrays
        Suffers from IBS, a chronic condition
        suffers from “sacaroillitis” (inflamation of jpoints in lower spine) a chronic condition
        5′ 71/2″ 204 lbs (obese)
        NO HEAD TRAUMA….

        I have been a Nurse for 23 years, and a Nurse Practitioner for the last ten. I have commented on this subject ad nauseum and discussed this topic with my Dr. friends, some I have known 20 years and more. My ENT friends, and a Neurologist who I have knows for years in this hospital stated to me, that GZ did not have his big fat head bashed against the ground. He did not want to be seen in E.R. because he knew that his injuries would not be consistent with the level of trauma that one would sustain when one receives a head bashing against the concrete ground. In the medical field, a pt. can come in the E.R. and by the size of the injury and the level of trauma, we know how they sustained the injuries because we have experience in how the injury was sustained!!

        When one say, gets punced for example, the individual who did the punching will have bruises and redness on their knuckles. The victim will have sustained bruises which look as if they are inflicted by knuckles and they all look the same! GZ was afraid that he was bgoing to be drug tested and that would reveal if he were under the influence of alcohol or any other mood altering drug! I canot wait until the DA shows the jury his photos and confers with the Expert specialists who can explain what the head of someone looks like after sustaining head injuries from the concrete ground and then asks the jury why the defendant did not go to a hospital, but to his own NP for an evaluation and assessment??? Then to only seek a note to return to work. WORK?? WTH?? If he was beaten so badly, why would he be going back to work??

    • Malisha says:

      They should change the name from univision to zerovision.

  8. who007 says:

    I have one question for anyone that may know.

    We have seen the shirt and hoodie TM wore now…

    Any word on his pants? I would think one key piece of evidence would be seen there, in that his knees would have significant ground in dirt and grass stains by necessarily having to dig in, as well as the tips of his sneakers, if it went down as Z said it did.

    I would think that would be devastating to Z’s story if prosecution holds up Trayvon’s pants before the jury and they are clean of any such debris. That goes right to the heart of Z’s story.

    As I look around, I haven’t been able to find these reports released as evidence yet. I could be wrong, but I haven’t seen it. Have you?

    Any thought on this key piece of evidence?

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I always wondered about the pants too. They definitely would have had wet knees and below and maybe grass stains if Tugboat’s commentary is correct. However, the clothing probably wasn’t examined until the autopsy, so may have dried, although grass stains, if present, wouldn’t disappear. ???

  9. Robert Zimmerman is constantly claiming he and George are afraid to be in public because of threats but he continues to show his face and speak in public.

    They’re all scheming $%&@. Watch at the 58 second mark how Robert Zimmerman pretends to be watching over his shoulders. Who do they think they’re fooling here? I so despise these people.

    • jm says:

      SG2: “Watch at the 58 second mark how Robert Zimmerman pretends to be watching over his shoulders.”

      He is “acting” and auditioning at the same time. It is apparent RZ LOVES the camera, the spotlight and to hear himself talk.

    • Tee says:

      Smh! Why the heck was he looking over his shoulder no one is looking for this fool or his family. Why are they such liars, this family is sick.

      • blushedbrown says:

        That was so silly, the looking over his shoulders. the more this family talks, the more they look like fools.
        I hope I didn’t break any rules there!

      • grahase says:

        The first time he mentioned being scared (in one of his interviews), he was later seen wandering about a mall and tweeting. Trent Sawyer caught it. Right after the interview.

  10. Malisha says:

    I chose the name “Malisha” long ago and for two reasons:

    (1) It sounds like it came from “Malicious” and I announced that as my reason for the choice; and

    (2) It was cute. Treepers think it’s 1980’s African American (rhymes with Trisha) and so forth, making it even cuter.

    I’m an old Jewish woman. But, as it says in “Airplane,” I speak jive.


  11. colin black says:

    Its on the left hand side of the jacket on the left photo difficult to if its blood or shadow a few inches down from collar on upper left of jacket…It is also present on the right photo but hard to spot siince the right hand phots at tottal diffrent resolution an a realy low pixell count..Left hand imige is much sharper.

  12. who007 says:

    tonydphotog: Could you explain the two photo’s better?
    Where did each one come from? Why are they different. Confused.

    • tonydphotog says:

      Sorry for any confusion. They’re both the same photo, but only one appears to have something splattered on it, next to the zipper.

      The photo on the left is the one that we’ve been analyzing, and questioning if it has been altered. I think it originated from the GZlegal website.

      The photo on the right is the one O’Mara included in the motion for yesterday’s court hearing.

  13. tonydphotog says:

    Knowing whoever photoshopped the picture of Cheorge in the police car isn’t an expert at photoshop, I knew there had to be an obvious mistake sooner or later.

    Blood is only on the jacket in one photo, not both.

    I’m new at links, and I hope this works!

  14. SearchingMind says:

    @ KA

    “If the trajectory of the bullet and other physical evidence shows GZ was on top when he shot Trayvon, doesn’t that mean “game over” for the self defense claim and defense?”

    IMO, the answer to your question is: YES. As I have always stated, ballistics (i.e. the trajectory of the bullet), is the single most powerful evidence in the Prosecution’s arsenal. There are other powerful evidence in this case, but the ballistics reigns supreme amongst them all – in that it does not lend itself to multiple logical/plausible interpretations (incorruptible evidence) . The said trajectory tells us ONE simple truth: Fogen was NOT lying on his back with Trayvon mounted on him, etc., when the fatal shot was fired. The opposite will negate the rudimental laws of physics and geometry. This, in itself, comprehensively rules out the self-defense story, as constructed by Fogen.

    • Rachael says:

      Have we seen anything definitive other than shot at close range?

    • SearchingMind says:

      Rach, the shot was not just fired at close range. The fired shot entered the chest cavity from the front to the back WITHOUT ANGLES – meaning a perfect straight shot that could not have been fired from an angled position.

      • Rachael says:

        Thanks. I knew that and I know that is why it would have been impossible if he was on his back but I guess – well what I’m concerned with is why we haven’t heard more of this. We hear about GZ following, we hear about the screaming, but why isn’t there more regarding this? I mean I have heard it some, but – I’m not sure what I’m trying to say – my mind is mushed out trying to study for my communications final later, so I am having difficulty communicating now LOL – but I guess what I am asking is if there is any other than close range and without angles is there any definitive documentation correlating this or do we have to wait until trial when experts take what is documented and correlate it for the jury.

        I mean if “they” can wave a (photoshopped?) picture of GZ’s nose, why isn’t this being waved around? It seems more damning than the screaming, DD, and when combined with GZ following, pretty well closes the case – in my mind anyway.

      • SearchingMind says:

        “… well what I’m concerned with is why we haven’t heard more of this.”

        I guess that BDLR does not want to be lured into trying the case even before the trial begins – no matter how hard O’Mara triesto get him to do just that. Did you notice that BDLR kept completely quiet when O’Mara was dancing around- and singing with “the photo of innocence”. That was a strategic silence that spoke loud (to me): O’Mara cannot figure out what the prosecution is thinking and what its strategy would be during the trial, while BDLR would want O’Mara to remain in the dark and continue guessing. Yesterday he (O’Mara) desperately wanted BDLR to reveal his thoughts on the “the photo of innocence”. But BDLR wouldn’t utter a word regarding that “photo of innocence”. The Corey-team appear to be more than ready for trial and very poised to bring Fogen down. O’Mara, it seems to me, is still not to get into the head of the prosecution by correctly reading and interpreting the signature of objective evidence.

        I cannot say why the media has been mute not just on the issue of ‘the trajectory’ but also on the lack of Fogen’s DNA on Trayvon’s hands. The absence of that DNA on Trayvon’s hands is huge, IMO, but apparently not juicy enough for the media. In any case, that’s good for the prosecution because it keeps the defense focused and betting on the wrong horse.

      • SearchingMind says:

        Typo. Pls. read: O’Mara it seems to me is still not = able = to get ….

      • Rachael says:

        Focused on the wrong horse could be a great thing, especially when this horse gets let out of the gates at the trial.

        Thanks so much!

      • Malisha says:

        The bullet entered the chest from “intermediate range” and at NO ANGLE, just straight in. It entered the clothing, however, at an angle and at “point blank range.” Therefore, the shirt and hoodie were being pulled away from the body and at an angle to their normal “hang” when the body was dressed, and the bullet was shot through hoodie, shirt and into chest with the bullet passing through some space (air) between shirt and chest. The combination of straight shot (no angle) and “intermediate” for chest while “point blank” for clothing, together with Fogen’s DNA on Trayvon Martin’s clothing, makes it a pretty tight case for the idea that Fogen had a grip on Martin’s clothing when he shit him straight through the heart, either from a parallel standing position or from above, with Trayvon on his back on the ground. You can draw the vectors and see how it would go.

    • SearchingMind says:

      The perfect straight line (made by the shot fired) is only possible in the following scenarios:

      (a). Fogen and Trayvon would be standing facing each other


      (b). Fogen is on top of Trayvon with the barrel of the gun pointed in a vertical straight line to his chest.

      There are no other options. Witness statements rule out scenario ‘a’ (which btw does not favor Fogen).

      • Rachael says:

        Thanks. I understand and agree, I just wish we would hear more about this than some of the other stuff. But in the end, it will all come out.


    • PiranhaMom says:



      Ballistics reign supreme!

      Good to have you back, Searcher, with your beartrap mind, engineered like a fine Swiss watch.

      If you haven’t been trapping bears lately, think of that massive vault door at the Federal Reserve Bank in NY that protects the bulk of the free world’s gold bars. Likely it, too, turns on fine Swiss engineering …

  15. whonoze says:

    Racist rhyme updated for the GZ fan club:

    Eenie meenie Treeper talk
    Catch a [asshole] with a wrist lock
    If he hollers, pull your Glock
    Eenie meanie Treeper talk

    • Malisha says:

      OMG OMG Whonoze I can’t stand it! LMAO and need first aid!

    • Malisha says:

      And now a piece of the NBC jury award will have to be, “And on December 12, 2012, Fogen’s misery was a result of the Treeper Talk racist rhyme posted by a certain blogger Whonoze…” and subtract another $14.21!

    • Tzar says:

      I don’t get the point of this…

    • Are you the same chap who chided me for calling them aliens?

      • whonoze says:

        I’m the chap who wrote above, “Yes, their hateful words and thoughts should be ignored, or mocked, and no one should concede any power or authority to them at all. But despite the drivel they drool, they are human beings, and most of them are not beyond redemption.” I placed my post under yours because that seemed the best place to address the issue. You did not start the discourse I questioned, but as the blog owner, as a member of the bar, and as our Professor I hold your words to a higher standard. And it was your words I chided, not your totality as a person which, again, I am in no position to judge.

        And I do appreciate your apology very much. In a way it’s easy for me to take the high road on this particular matter because I’m very even tempered. However, I do understand all too well the struggles against the aspects of one’s nature; mine are just in other areas. Some people’s blood runs hot, and they need to vent, and that’s all it is, really: letting off heat.

        I do not forgive the actions of the active Treepers, and I certainly wouldn’t ask anyone else to do so. But I do not want to assume that each and every one of them is locked in the darkness forever. I want to hold the hope that some of them might be change, and become worthy of – if not forgiveness at least something in that direction.

        But while I hold hope for their souls, I shall lambaste their words and ill-logics as it suits my funny bone to do so. I mean, I can’t let Malisha have all the fun, now can I?

        Peace to you, Brother Frederick.


        • cielo62 says:

          Admirable! I like that! I’m on the fence in regards to the rehability of those who choose evil and darkness. But I agree we shouldn’t lower our souls to their level.

          Sent from my iPod

  16. Malisha says:

    I was just laughing about the NBC suit because I realized something really funny: it would be such a beating to Fogen if this went to trial that it would almost be worth seeing NBC pay him a few hundred dollars to have footage of him suffering for days and days while the defense made their case, and THEN, and THEN:

    No, let me tell a story first to set the background and then we can go back to do the calculation.

    Story: When my kid was a sophomore in college, three guys from his dorm who knew that he was a very generous kid asked if he would go in with them as the fourth guy to rent an apartment for the following year. They were not his usual kind of kid, just met him in the dorm and realized he would buy lunch for others, help out with whatever, tutor kids for free. So they rented this apartment but to get a lower monthly rent they rented it for 12 months rather than the 10 of the semester. In the summer, before the semester started, I stayed down there with him for a while helping him with some stuff; we also furnished the place ourselves (except for the bedrooms) and cleaned some things that had been left, well, we cleaned up. When the boys arrived with their bedroom furniture, the mother of one of the boys suddenly pitched a hissy fit because she said I had stayed there without paying rent! Her boy had suffered from that and I owed them; also, I didn’t have her son’s permission to stay there in HIS apartment. She went off. (This had to be about personal hatred or jealousy because there was no other sign of a problem.) So I said, “Oh, that’s fine. Let’s sit down at the kitchen table [It was the kitchen table I had furnished] and figure this out. For two months, the rent would be $210 at the monthly rental rate for the boys. But since the number of tenants is five instead of four, that monthly rental rate was not $105 per month per boy but rather, oh let’s see, $84 per month per person so that’s $168. But I don’t owe that to all one person, but to four boys, so that’s $168/4 so that’s $41. So I’ll just write out a check to your son for his forty-one dollars and I’ll pay the other boys all separately.” I began to write out a check. The other boys looked around the apartment and saw an espresso maker, a regular coffee maker, furniture, curtains, kitchen implements including cookware, a space cabinet full of essentials, etc. One of them said, “Oh I don’t need mine.” The others followed suit. Then the angry woman’s husband spoke up, “Forget it; we don’t need the $41.”

    Now I can see NBC. The jury finds that NBC and those three nefarious journalists harmed Fogen. But they subtract the total award of $1,000 thus:

    From 2/26/2012 until 3/19/2012 he was suffering from sleeplessness and misery and crying for three days straight and living in fear for his life before this terrible deed so that’s 22 days’ worth of misery money subtracted;

    From 3/20/2012 until… [his suffering was due to something else that had come out…]

    From 4/10/2012 until… [his suffering was the result of being in jail and separated from dear Shellie…]

    From 5/1…. and on and on. In other words, there is a tiny window of time when Fogen could have been suffering because of the NBC thing. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.

    I just hope that one of the calculations will be:

    “On such and such a date, his suffering is attributable to words that a certain blogger Malisha wrote, saying…” 😮

  17. Malisha says:

    KA, usually at the beginning of a hearing the Bailiff will announced, “All rise,” and then announce the name of the court and the name of the judge, ending with “The Honorable [name] presiding” and as the judge enters, all rise. Do you mean that the bailiff announced and Fogen remained seated? Uh oh.

  18. KA says:

    I just read (I haven’t watched yet) that GZ did not stand when the judge entered, is that true?

    I was in court this past summer with an adoption, my kids even knew to stand…I am really just amazed at the blatant disregard for this new judge. I bet if we watched an video of the Judge Lester’s courtroom or when he testified at the first hearing, he stood up. He has been in court enough to well know the protocol.

    Last time they were 15 minutes late to court and now he does not even stand?

    It makes me question their intent there. I would think if I was O’Mara, I would have yanked him up by his arm to show attempted respect.

    • grahase says:

      He did not stand. In fact, I do believe I saw him chewing gum once in awhile. It also appeared that he was texting at times. The Thugboat, IMO, has a problem with women.

  19. KA says:


    If the trajectory of the bullet and other physical evidence shows GZ was on top when he shot Trayvon, doesn’t that mean “game over” for the self defense claim and defense?

    Through all this back and forth and motions it seems to me the simple truth of GZ clenching Trayvon’s shirt and shooting him from the top is the key point that the prosecution needs to push during the immunity hearing.

    I would think if they are successful in the hearing (which I have no doubt) and the evidence is compelling for GZ holding Trayvon’s shirt and shooting on top, they really will have no real defense. Wouldn’t that eliminate a self defense/SYG claim?

    • Eric says:

      I don’t if this can be done, but can an immunity hearing be waved? If it can, I think Omara will do just that. He doesn’t want his client to answer questions. Zimmerman will get destroyed.

      • Eric says:

        I meant waived

      • Jun says:

        They never set a date for the SYG hearing. They have until April.

      • Yes, he can waive the hearing, which would probably be a good idea, since the carefully manufactured faux defense will be destroyed in a public proceeding for all to see.

        This would undermine their strategy, which appears to be to poison the potential jury pool with enough people blinded by their appeal to racism, demonization of Trayvon and misinformation campaign that they are so convinced of the defendant’s innocence and determined to acquit him, regardless of the evidence, that they become stealth jurors concealing their true beliefs in order to sneak on the jury, ignore the evidence, and vote to acquit.

        Yes, that’s one helluva crazy strategy that has little chance to prevail, but how else can one explain what they are doing?

        Waving photoshopped “bloody” photos of the defendant’s face and the back of his head for the TV cameras without moving them into evidence for purposes of the hearing to support the claim of innocence was pure sleaze.

        More important, since O’Mara knows the rules of evidence and proper procedure, we can reasonably conclude that he knows the photos were photoshopped and that is why he did not attempt to get them admitted.

        Those photos are extremely important to his case and he would not have innocently forgotten to offer them into evidence for purposes of that hearing, unless he knew or had reason to know they were bogus and BDLR would have brought that out forever debunking the photos.

        • blushedbrown says:


          I am confused. Clarify please. The black and white photo was entered into evidence by O’mara on June 29th at the second bond hearing to Judge Lester. Does he have to reenter the “color photo” into evidence? And also, is it legal for him to wave the photo around in court, but not enter it into evidence?
          Thank you in advance for your repsonse.

    • They have no defense as demonstrated by their unrelenting effort to try their case in the court of public opinion, where the rules of evidence do not apply and they can misrepresent the evidence, flash photoshopped images of the defendant’s claimed injuries, play the race card and blame the victim as much as they want in hopes of poisoning the pool of potential jurors to such an extent that a stealth juror sneaks onto the jury and votes” Not Guilty,” despite overwhelming evidence of guilt.

      • Rachael says:

        What I don’t understand is how THEY can be allowed to poison the pool of potential jurors then claim they can’t get a fair trial when it is THEIR doing?

        • jm says:

          “What I don’t understand is how THEY can be allowed to poison the pool of potential jurors then claim they can’t get a fair trial when it is THEIR doing?”

          I don’t think O’Mara gives a care about anything but winning (Charlie Sheen style) at any cost and raising funds from racists. It’s all duplicitous double-talk and IMO this whole case is sleazier/uglier than anything I have ever seen.

  20. Jun says:

    You know what would be nice of NBC. When they are done slaughtering Fogenhats in court and have him pay the fees lulled up because of his frivolous lawsuit, they should give the money to Sybrina.

  21. Malisha says:

    Piranhamom, you referred to what “Jeremy” is saying when he says, “He warned me to … ” [something like] “chaircho” —

    I can’t tell if it’s “He wants me to…” or “He warned me to…” or some other such combination. I can’t hear the individual words after that. I’m sure there is equipment that makes it more audible.

    Strangely, I remember in 1970 working on typing up a transcript from a tape of someone speaking English with a thick Yiddish accent and an excited kind of gravelly voice and poor syntax. I was in a little room with a dictaphone and a typewriter. I worked on one phrase about a second long, couldn’t get it, went back over it hundreds of times. Finallly it emerged: “Like a train wreck.”

    It was totally “data-free” in the context of what the man was talking about — he was just making an exclamation of how surprised he was about something, which didn’t matter — but the difference between the sounds before they became clear to me and after they became clear to me was like Helen Keller in The Miracle Worker suddenly understanding “wa wa.” Amazing.

    • Malisha…..Who is ultimately analyzing all the calls. I would like to take out the callers voice and the NEN operators voice and just be able to listen and zoom in on the backround voices without the interference of the louder voices that cut in and out.

      • Xena says:

        Malisha…..Who is ultimately analyzing all the calls. I would like to take out the callers voice and the NEN operators voice and just be able to listen and zoom in on the backround voices without the interference of the louder voices that cut in and out.

        What helped me was listening to it like listening to a concert. I played violin in high school and college orchestras and our conductor always knew when the wind section was off, or the strings section was off.

        When listening to that call, see each voice as an instrument. Then listen for the percussion section. GZ’s voice captured in the background is like the percussion section. It’s there, but don’t let the louder instruments distract you.

    • Tzar says:

      I know the feeling. and once you hear it, you can’t unhear it and it almost seems ridiculous that you could not before

      • Malisha says:

        That’s exactly right! And it only “clicks in” and becomes comprehensible after many, many listens, all the while sounding like cotton candy being chewed by a terrier.

  22. Malisha says:

    Santa and Fogen.

    Fogen cannot go to see Santa in the store this year because of all the death threats, so he has his brother Robert Junior write to Santa. Robert’s open letter says:

    Dear Santa,
    My brother, who is a decent American, wants the following:

    1. His gun back and a supply of hollow-point bullets;

    2. A luxury hotel room for him and another for Shellie for two years;

    3. Another bicycle because the one he had was stolen by a “Black male” but some racists pulled a trick and switched serial numbers so the police let the asshole get away;

    4. The board game Monopoly so he has a new get-out-of-jail-free card.

    5. $2,000,000 to compensate him for being the most hated man in America.

    6. A video of his interview with Sean Hannity and a 400-ft. flat-screen TV to show it on.

    7. A new schtruck.

    8. His own personal body-guards that he doesn’t have to pay because he owns them.

    9. A passport, in triplicate.

    – and, last but not least –

    10. A personal plastic surgeon to give him a nose job.

    PS: Santa, my family has always loved you.

  23. Malisha says:

    Bor-DL, I think someone else started “Chorge” but I then started to use “Cheorge” not because we were imitating a Hispanic accent (indeed, Fogen doesn’t have a Hispanic accent) but because he kind of “sings” the beginnings of his words at times and at other times sounds like he’s a bit under the influence.

    Schtruck for truck.
    Kalubbhouse for clubhouse.
    Zssimmerman for Zimmerman.
    Cheorge or Chorge for George.
    Coons for punks.

    It might be a sort of speech defect, I don’t know.

    • Jun says:

      Walkin’ round lookin about = walking while black

      BTW, I noticed a similarity in what the defendant did compared to Raul Rodriguez in setting up and staging the “SYG” kill

    • whonoze says:

      “Chorge” reads as anti-Hispanic because it appears derived from ‘Jorge.’ This has struck some people, including me, as inappropriate. I failed to recognize the reference to GZ’s speech patterns, which is odd (or telling), given that his habit of putting an ‘h’ behind his opening consonants was one of the things that came up in my phonetic breakdown establishing that he said ‘coons’ (pronounced ‘khoons”), not ‘punks.’ So I had listened to that ‘h’ thing over and over for hours.

      Thanks Malisha, for making your intent clear. Just MHO, but I don’t see a problem in referring to GZ as “Cheorge,” with that spelling.

      • Malisha says:

        I prefer Fogen right now anyway. But I never even thought of the accent angle.

        My son has a friend from Honduras who taught my kid auto mechanics. My kid is a Jew. His favorite part of the car is what his friend refers to as the “Jew Joint.” I still don’t know what a “U-joint” is on a car but I enjoy hearing my kid describe the insides of a car with a Hispanic accent. 😀

        I must say that Fogen’s accent irritates me, but it’s probably not his pronunciation so much as his fake respectfulness. He respects nobody; people whom he fears, he pretends to respect.

      • PiranhaMom says:


        Why would “Chorge” read as anti-Hispanic because it appears to be derived from Jorge?

        If anyone wanted to mock his Hispanic heritag by using some phonetic version of that name, they would be calling him HOR-HAY.

        Hmmmm. Considering how he raked in the hay, maybe he is a HOR.

        • jm says:

          PiranhaMom: Why would “Chorge” read as anti-Hispanic because it appears to be derived from Jorge? If anyone wanted to mock his Hispanic heritag by using some phonetic version of that name, they would be calling him HOR-HAY.”

          Thanks. I never dreamed calling George Chorge would be construed as racist. I had friends who were primarily Spanish speaking and they did not pronounce the name Jorge as Chorge.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I’ve lived in the midst of SW Hispanic culture for most of my life, and to me, Tugboat has a trace of Hispanic accent combined with a S. FL accent. Just exactly the same as his physical/cultural background. But notice how strong that S. accent came out in the NEN call – and more slurring than is usual for him when we’ve heard him speak in court.. I don’t know what his deal was!

  24. colin black says:

    Jun J Nelson dint have to make any ruleing..J Lester only ever stated he couldnt contact Trayvons Family.direct or indirect..No mention was made witnesses that include his family ect…Casey Anthony was able to speak to her parents even although they where witnesses.Although she chose not to in the last time she was locked up.That was on behest of her attorneys advice…as Fred sais s t f u or I will kill you wwith bare hands..M O M an West apeared hopelessly out of touch an depth today..

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I think they just wanted to clarify it for Tugboat because he felt he couldn’t talk to his friends who are listed as witnesses.

      • Rachael says:

        When you have friends like his – who write a book saying you said things that do not mesh with statements given – why would you want to talk with them anyway. Who knows what they will say/do next. But hey, it seems the more he talks the better it is for the prosecution!

      • Jun says:

        I dont think he can talk to Taffe or Osterman because they are witnesses for the State. He can depose anyone though

  25. Jun says:

    Okay so am I correct?

    The defendant can only speak to the witnesses during depositions or directly with them?

    I thought she only ruled that he could speak to his friends

    • Tee says:

      She didn’t rule on this motion other than to keep it as Judge Lester had it. She simply stated that he can talk to his friends and family.

  26. cielo62 says:

    >^..^< meowing with glee!

  27. Tzar says:

    Breaking news: New filing by the Defense
    Motion to have judge Lester reappointed to case, George said he does not like this lady.

    • Jun says:

      Next hearing

      Omara will file 100 motions that all get denied

    • Cercando Luce says:

      You’re joking, right?

    • Xena says:


      Did you notice that GZ wrote and passed a note to MOM as Bernie was arguing against the motion to modify release? When MOM got up again, he talked the mumbo, jumbo stuff about GZ not being able to return to work, return to school, and Shellie not being able to return to school. What the heck does that have to do with conditions of bail? GZ is one big crybaby.

      • Jun says:

        That is a product of his parents enabling him and throughout his life not being held accountable for his actions

        But in the defendant’s deranged mind, a person who targets, stalks, confronts, threatens, and kills a kid should just go to work like it is nothing and he wonders why they feel he is depraved

        • Xena says:

          But in the defendant’s deranged mind, a person who targets, stalks, confronts, threatens, and kills a kid should just go to work like it is nothing and he wonders why they feel he is depraved

          GZ believes he is entitled — entitled to do whatever he wants and he also has a threatening disposition about himself. I could see him clinch his teeth and stick out his chin in court today when Bernie was before the court. I suspect that Bernie will be the next person who the Zidiots attack and demean.

      • Jun says:

        LMAO well they are being led by Lord Zimmernuts Fogenhats LMAO

        I have a feeling the defendant has been online arguing with people

        and yes I caught him mean mugging Bernie

        He did the same to Sybrina and Tracy at the first bond hearing

        Cant wait till the state, federal or both convict him

      • Xena…Has it been mentioned anywhere if GZ was able to collect unemployment comp. after he stopped working? Are he and shellie collecting government assistance or foodstamps?

        • Xena says:

          Xena…Has it been mentioned anywhere if GZ was able to collect unemployment comp. after he stopped working? Are he and shellie collecting government assistance or foodstamps?

          It hasn’t been mentioned, but unemployment law in most states deny unemployment benefits when the claimant’s action is responsible for their separation from employment.

          Government benefits such as food stamps are based on income, so GZ and ShelLIE no doubt would be approved if they weren’t already. GZ being ADHD could probably be considered in his dietary needs to approve him for food stamps based on a family of 2 with an unemployed spouse.

      • KA says:

        Shellie has not been in school since 2010. GZ could work remotely.

        Honestly, I just chuckle at his “not being able to work” crud. If he thinks his life is threatened then he cannot GO to an office, but he can still work.

        I find it amusing that the reason he “cannot work” is that he is in fear for his life from some random person in the human gene pool, but not that he “cannot work” because everyone in America knows he killed an unarmed 17 yr olds and has an ankle bracelet awaiting trial for 2nd degree murder….I am sure if he had a bullet proof plastic bubble around him no one would hire him anyway.

        I can not think of a single position in this country that would well hire a man on bail for Murder 2 over any other person on the planet that puts in their resume….not to mention he rarely kept a job over the last decade, sued one of his last employers he only worked for three months for overtime…(and made more in the settlement than he made at the job)…had a public recording of a former co worker that he terrorized, statements from his former co workers and employees that he was difficult to work with and fired, a testimony that he once threw a girl across a room and was fired, he was on academic probation in his AA degree (which he had been attempting to get for 8 years), he failed college Math,.. etc ..etc…

        It is like the LinkedIn account from Hell…he isn’t getting any recruiting calls anytime soon…

        Basically, there are many reasons he “cannot work”….I would say “security detail” is the least of them…. it shows a severe break from reality in him…

        • Xena says:

          Basically, there are many reasons he “cannot work”….I would say “security detail” is the least of them…. it shows a severe break from reality in him…

          At one time, I sat on the Board for a vocational school whose saying was “A hand up, not a handout.” With GZ purportedly having so many supporters, it appears that not one of them is in business or position to offer GZ a job. He apparently has a computer and can do virtual work. His supporters prefer giving him a handout in increments of $10 and $20 rather than a hand up so he can earn a living.

          • jm says:

            Xena: “His supporters prefer giving him a handout in increments of $10 and $20 rather than a hand up so he can earn a living.”

            From what I have read on squirrel treehouse, his supporters don’t seem educated enough to afford any more to give him and I suspect they aren’t in a position to offer him a job. I would bet a lot of them are working in fast food flipping burgers, just from the mentality displayed in their posts.

            On the other hand, where is Sean Hannity and his connections to help Chorge with work at home IF that is what Chorge wants. ShelLIE too could use something to occupy her time and add to the income.

          • Xena says:

            From what I have read on squirrel treehouse, his supporters don’t seem educated enough to afford any more to give him and I suspect they aren’t in a position to offer him a job. I would bet a lot of them are working in fast food flipping burgers, just from the mentality displayed in their posts.

            See, that’s the thing. GZ’s supporters do not appear to be diverse.

            On the other hand, where is Sean Hannity and his connections to help Chorge with work at home …

            Or Glenn Beck, or Rush Limpballs. With all of their dog whistles, they apparently don’t want to be associated with the White Supremacists that devised the thugification of Trayvon Martin.

          • cielo62 says:

            Yeah! Shellie could be doing her cosmetology thing from the living room. Nah… Why work when dummies just SEND you money?

            Sent from my iPod

          • Xena says:

            Yeah! Shellie could be doing her cosmetology thing from the living room. Nah… Why work when dummies just SEND you money?

            I heard it’s a one room kitchenette. But ShelLIE could have an open office day at O’Mara’s offices IF she still has her cosmetology license, that is.

          • blushedbrown says:

            I know where she can work and use her cosmetoglist license where:
            Nobody will recognize her.
            They people don’t talk.
            The people will never complain about how bad of a job she’s done.
            Can be done at night.
            A funeral home.

          • Xena says:

            Can be done at night.
            A funeral home.

            LOL@blushedbrown. Unless the deceased is Muslim, in which case the body is washed and wrapped. Nah! After those bandaids she put on GZ’s head and between his eyes, she wouldn’t qualify.

          • blushedbrown says:


          • fauxmccoy says:

            blushed – that may sound morbid, but i have actually considered it. after i became disabled, i went through re-training to be a makeup artist. mostly, i just do volunteer work at my local cancer center along with my hair stylist. she does wigs and as a survivor myself who has learned to create brows and lashes out of nothing, it’s something that is very important to me. i can only work for short periods of time and the funeral home would certainly be a quiet place to work. we’ve all seen some hideous jobs on departed loved ones done by unskilled hands and it’s just something i feel i could do as a loving act of service to those in grief.

          • blushedbrown says:

            I don’t think is morbid. Someone has to do it. I rather have someone, like you do my makeup when I’m dead, then someone who will make me look like a 2 bit hooker from downtown. It takes alot of time and patience to make up a person who is deceased look like they did in life. It is quite an intimate thing to do. I think you would do extremely well.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            license to practice no longer valid for either cosmetology or esthetician (i’m a nosy one and checked that early on under both her married and maiden name).

          • Xena says:

            Good hound dog work fauxmccoy! Something is wrong with people in their 20’s who cannot continue in careers they chose and who neither work in anything!

          • fauxmccoy says:

            i also checked for all pertinent medical licenses she would need in order to be studying online to be a nurse (in my mind only an RN is a ‘nurse’). she holds none. to summarize, she could only be studying for the lowest rung on the ladder, a nurse aid. she obviously was no where near to completion and did not put in any of the necessary ‘hands on’ supervised practicum time. she was years away from attaining an RN license.

            this is why i have stated repeatedly that
            GZ is to law enforcement as SZ is to nurse
            a match made in heaven or an alternate universe, your choice.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            have you seen her skills with an eyebrow pencil or eye liner? who in their right mind would pay for that??? it was part of her curriculum to become an esthetician (license no longer active). one can only imagine her exceptional ‘nursing’ skills :/

      • Dave says:

        grey winter sky: regarding unemployment comp, in most (probably all) states the applicant must be available for work and actively seeking work in order to qualify. The killer would have to actually go out into the world and apply for jobs (accompanied by his bodyguard !?!) as well as periodically visiting the unemployment office. He probably has too much money coming in to qualify for either welfare or foodstamps. Shellie might qualify if she obtained a legal separation from her husband or filed for divorce. Otherwise she’s SOL. (Lawyers, please correct me if I’m wrong.)

      • Tzar says:

        KA says:
        December 12, 2012 at 5:02 am

        It is like the LinkedIn account from Hell…he isn’t getting any recruiting calls anytime soon…


      • She wasn’t attending school and he was kicked out.

        So much for that bogus argument.

        • Xena says:

          She wasn’t attending school and he was kicked out.

          So much for that bogus argument.

          Indeed! Additionally, removing his GPS and giving him freedom to travel in Florida does not restore conditions of employment and school.

      • Malisha says:

        Well Miss Xena, if that ankle bracelet is taken off, Fogen can get a job as a foot model. When slippers and shoes are advertised on TV, they want somebody’s feet and shins to show in those beautiful shoes. Fogen could have job opportunities.

        Also, if the conditions of his bail are modified so he does not have to wear an ankle bracelet, he can simply go where the jobs are. Such as Peru, Saudi Arabia, or Ouagadougou. See?

        • @Malisha:

          LMAO! You stoopid!! Foot model? Would you want those big fat feet modeling any shoes? These days he cannot bend down to even see his shoes!

        • Xena says:

          Also, if the conditions of his bail are modified so he does not have to wear an ankle bracelet, he can simply go where the jobs are. Such as Peru, Saudi Arabia, or Ouagadougou. See?

          Sure. Right. There’s a job waiting for him in Nevernever land too. Too bad Peter Pan hasn’t worked out for him though.

    • looneydoone says:

      I bet they regret having had Judge Lester removed. It would appear Judge Nelson isn’t having any of their nonsense 😉

    • Tzar…….Tooooo funny…..Ya think..maybe..that was in the note that GZ wrote? 🙂

    • FactsFirst says:


  28. Malisha says:

    Quoted above:

    “I think I’ve posted before that since Trayvon was a minor his parents would probably be legally responsible for compensating George for his medical expenses and pain and suffering (IANAL). It wouldn’t go over well with the public if George tried nor do I think he would. Bigger fish to fry.”


    There was a case I think from Texas where a man lay down on the railroad tracks to protest something or other and the train engineer deliberately rolled over him and severed both legs. The man lived and the train engineer sued him for intentional infliction of emotional distress in forcing him to run him over. I don’t remember the resolution of the case; that was many years back. But the principel is even more bizarre in the case of Trayvon Martin. Not only does it presume that Fogen had rightful and lawful absolute authority over Trayvon and Trayvon deliberately refused to obey a lawful order, but it then presumes that any fool action Fogen chose to take about the terrible disobedience was Trayvon’s fault.

    That’s pretty close to the Dred Scott decision: “A Black man has no rights…”

    • Jun says:

      what medical bills?

      being honest

      all he did was place knuckle bandages on his head and he refused medical treatment for obvious reasons (he had nothing there)

      and then go to his family doctor and all he/she said was maybe this maybe that, I dont know

      altogether that is $40

      Let us see the bill that was racked up because of the defendant Fogenhats!!!

      Wrecked Clothing
      DNA testing
      Ballistics Testing
      Forensic Trace Testing
      Cell Phone Testing
      Fogenhats gun testing
      Fogenhats investigation
      Emotional Distress and fear from all the people in the complex because of the defendant’s action

      I could list more, but sure, we can pay the defendant his $40, but once we are done with the list, the defendant should pay all the bills racked up because of him and his family

      • Rachael says:

        Their reasoning makes no sense. Even if (and I am just saying if – not at all that I believe it) what GZ did was self-defense, he can’t ask Trayvon’s family to pay for his “damages,” Trayvon already paid. He paid with his life. The very idea that GZ should sue the family for his pain and suffering is unconscionable. Once again, he is not taking responsibility for his actions. Even if he HAD to do it, that is HIS price to pay.

      • Jun says:

        It goes with their selfish attitude and their “better than thou” type attitude

        It is not enough that he took a kid’s life

        Now he wants even more

        You can bet his lawsuit will be used against him at trial to show how depraved he is

        • The prosecution has to prove BARD that the defendant acted with a depraved mind when he killed Trayvon Martin.

          The legal issue is not whether depravity is his signature character trait, Whether he is the poster child for depravity is not relevant and evidence of depraved behavior as a character trait or as independent bad-act evidence will not be admissible at the trial to prove that he acted with a depraved mind when he murdered Trayvon.

      • Jun says:

        Would not his after the murder actions showcase a depraved mind? His after murder actions, such as the lawsuit, to me, show he disregards the human life of Trayvon Martin

        • @Jm:
          Depraved mind? I truly think that GZ has some cognitive deficits/learning disabilitiy? Six years in Community College? There is something not right about him. His lack of emotion, those cold eyes, his inability to feel someone’s else’s pain? There is something not right with him. Most criminals have had some abuse in their backgrounds. I don’t know what transpired with him, but he is one sick twisted puppy!

  29. Judy75201 says:

    Question for Prof. Fred. Why would Omara focus on Tracy’s initial response to hearing the screams on the tape? It’s not evidence, so it seems to me that he is using it to manipulate. But how stupid can that be once this case goes to trial?

    • He is trying to win his case in the court of public opinion where he can claim that the evidence is anything that he wants it to be and he can tell us what his client would say without his client having to testify or be cross examined. He does this knowing that the prosecution cannot retaliate, except on rare occasions like today when BDLR went on a righteous rant.

      O’Mara is all about manipulating public opinion before trial because he has no defense.

      • jm says:

        Professor: “O’Mara is all about manipulating public opinion before trial because he has no defense.”

        So how do you feel O’Mara is doing in his goal to manipulate public opinion and do you believe O’Mara thinks public opinion can change the outcome for Chorge?

        What I mean to say is why does O’Mara bother. IF he is intelligent he should know public opinion can’t change evidence against his client.

      • Rachael says:

        His defense appears to steer away from the evidence. He pretends he is giving evidence, like the person monitoring GZ, but that has nothing to do with the evidence of why GZ is being monitored to begin with. But if you are looking at this over here, you won’t see that over there.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        I was wondering why O’Mara and West did not make any objection to De la Rionda’s statements. Would they be allowed to, or is that only at trial?

        In other words, did they play their hand as well as they could?

      • Tee says:

        Professor I think that he is right and wrong at the same time. If I’m not mistaken I think I hear GZ yelled out or help after I hear the terrifying screams it’s as if he said something ( I don’t know what then yells help) the two sound really different to me. One person screaming terrified and another talking then as if a lightbulb turned on in his head ie. someone got to be hearing this so I’m going to yell to, but it’s not a constant yell I heard it for sure once. I think this guy is very calculating, I think he decided at some point to yell out for help along with Trayvon. I maybe wrong but I hear him talking, I hear Travyon screaming and I hear GZ yell help. Trayvon screams never stop Until the gun is fired. GZ yell and speech pauses throughout.

        • blushedbrown says:

          Tee wrote

          One person screaming terrified and another talking then as if a lightbulb turned on in his head ie. someone got to be hearing this so I’m going to yell too.

          YES AND YES

    • Jun says:


      I dont feel he said NO, as in it is not his son

      It was likely a “No, No” as in a disbelief that something horrible happened to his son

      Besides, there are numerous on scene witnesses, who have no connection to either party, so their testimony is objective, have attributed the screaming to the kid, or, at least to the person screaming for help was the one who was shot

      Witness 8 & 18 pinpoint the defendant as the aggressor

      and there is recording of the audio


      It is a moot point and the defendant is doomed

  30. Malisha says:

    Now just a minute, Rachael: The question does have an answer and I think we’re responsible to ANSWER it.

    QUESTION: “At what point are the Martins going to be liable for the behavior of their child?”

    ANSWER: In 1862 or earlier.

    • Jun says:

      I think the proper question is

      “When will the people at the Conservative Tinfoil Hat will be held responsible and liable for their behavior?”

      & the answer is…

      Fairly soon, they are being investigated LMAO

      Those simpletons do not realize that proxies will not hide them and the internet is forever LMAO

  31. Rachael says:

    OMG, is delusional even the right word for this?:

    XX says:

    December 11, 2012 at 5:48 pm

    At what point are the Martins going to be liable for the behavior of their child?


    XXX says:

    December 11, 2012 at 5:53 pm

    I think I’ve posted before that since Trayvon was a minor his parents would probably be legally responsible for compensating George for his medical expenses and pain and suffering (IANAL). It wouldn’t go over well with the public if George tried nor do I think he would. Bigger fish to fry.

    WTH???!!!!! I am trying SO hard to take the high road with statements like this, but I think it is going to kill me. UNREAL!!!!

    Every day I am shocked by the kind of people who are out there, and just when I think they could not be any more disgusting than they are, I see something like this!!!! Okay, I have to go before I say something that will get me thrown off of here. OMG. These are NOT people. They have no souls. They…ughhh bye.

    • Xena says:

      You have probably read my comments where I say all the time that I lack patience with ignorance. MEDICAL EXPENSES? What medical expenses? The Zidiots think that GZ had medical expenses? GZ didn’t go to the hospital and ShelLIE probably didn’t pay for those big band aids she put on GZ’s head and nose either.

    • There are no intelligent and empathetic life forms commenting at that site.

      They are aliens and cannot be compared to any life form that I know. Only their hate sustains them.

      Ignore them, unless you can laugh at them.

      Do not give them power over you.

      • Rachael says:

        You are right, of course. Thanks.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        good advice, professor. i took a look at the treehouse for the first time today, just to laugh at how their disposition changed as o’mara’s motions were denied. their denial is laugh worthy indeed.

      • jm says:

        It is hard to laugh at them. I actually get nauseous when I go to the squirrel house.

      • Tee says:

        I don’t even waste my time reading over there after stumbling upon it once I wanted to crawl throw the wires into the invisible word of the intranet & slap every fool that posted that racist crap. I then practice what I teach my kids, and that is “you can only control yourself, if someone is saying or doing something you don’t like control the situation by removing yourself,” and that’s what I did I stopped reading over there.

      • whonoze says:


        There is no wisdom in hating, even the hating of haters. The Treepers are not aliens. They are all too human. It not so much that they lack intelligence altogether as that they wear intellectual blinders. They are, above all else, afraid. Capitalism has pulled out the rug from under many of them, but it too much of leap for them to even imagine challenging the powerful, so they project their fears onto the powerless Other. As Mr. Obama said, they cling to guns and god in the face of bleak horizons. I won’t go into a lengthy discourse on ideology theory (though I’ll name drop Eagleton, Althusser, Lukacs, Adorno and ol’ Chuck himself for the curious), but you really can’t put all the blame on the proletariat for their delusions.

        For all but a few of the truly crazy Storm Front types, the bile they spew on the web is not the totality of their lives. For many of them, their Internet personas and obsessions are their own little special and often secret worlds, hidden from families and friends. They have no empathy for the Martins, but they are loving spouses and parents, loyal friends, honest citizens… It is sad, really, that have made a personality disorder wack job like Foegnboat their avatar.

        Yes, their hateful words and thoughts should be ignored, or mocked, and no one should concede any power or authority to them at all. But despite the drivel they drool, they are human beings, and most of them are not beyond redemption. True, few if any will ever be redeemed. But we DO give their hatred a power it does not deserve by concluding there is no possibility of change.

        And though I am an atheist, I shall quote the carpenter (at least I think it was him…) “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” And, in reply, I’ll quote a different Zimmerman, “It ain’t me, babe.” I do not have the moral authority to cast anyone to hell…. OK, maybe Dick Armey or Wayne Lapierre, or the guy who commented on my first YouTube vid that “the porch monkey should of stayed on his porch.” But not the garden variety schlubs who just obsesses over the fact Tracy Martin supposedly said the screams on the 911 call weren’t his son, or thinks Trayvon’s phone wasn’t Trayvons phone etc. etc. etc.

        They are people, not THAT different from any of us. That is both the horror of it all, and the small seed of hope amidst the madness.

        • I apologize.

          I went too far with my comment and violated my own rule.

          I am a Cancer Sun with Scorpio Rising and, despite what I say, I have a difficult time forgiving.

          “It’s not in my nature to be that way,” said the scorpion to the frog.

          I have struggled with this all my life.

          Thank you for calling me out and reminding me that I need to listen to my higher nature.

      • grahase says:

        Sorry whonoze – I disagree you. I believe hate speech should be eradicated. I believe people should be held accountable for their actions. I believe that it is not our responsibility to try and understand their primitive behaviours.

        They should be CALLED OUT. Let their friends and families find out exactly what is going on with someone they only think they know. Then, and only then, will those uninformed family members and friends have the ability to get that individual help – much-needed help.

        • cielo62 says:

          Grahase- agree 100%. Too much “sympathy” and people don’t honor nor recognize social boundaries. Accountability is a moral value I teach (and model) to my students.

          Sent from my iPod

      • bettykath says:

        I have not spent much time here lately, nor there. But I looked at comments from both sites tonight and see that those who question the prevailing view at either site can subjected to, hmmm, ridicule? It seem to me to be a mob mentality on both sites with ridiculing those who don’t agree to be an ok thing. Professor, you’ve requested the high ground here. That’s a good thing, but it’s been really easy to slip off it.

        I learned stuff there that I didn’t know. There is stuff here that they don’t know. It’s too bad that the spiteful stuff gets in the way of sharing. You don’t change hearts and minds by hurting others by making fun of them.

        A set mind tends to miss stuff it should find out.

        btw, I finally found all the videos from today’s hearing that Lmpapa posted. Thank you for posting them.

        • I apologize.

          I went too far with my comment and violated my own rule.

          I am a Cancer Sun with Scorpio Rising and, despite what I say, I have a difficult time forgiving.

          It’s not in my nature to be that way.

          I have struggled with this all my life.

    • Judy75201 says:

      @Rachael. The conservativetreehouse serves a great purpose in that it gathers the horror of their humanity in one place. The Internet is forever, and even if you use a proxy server like hidemyass, that won’t protect you from a warrant, lol. I, too, get sick every time I try to read their perspective.

    • Jun says:

      The state can conclusively prove that any actions that night were justifiable and reasonable actions by the victim

      I cant wait till the feds are done investigating those idiots

    • groans says:

      “Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.” ~Desiderata~

      (Perhaps I’m revealing my age here.)

      • bettykath says:

        Not at all. I assume you discovered this outstanding bit of literature when perusing books in your mother’s or grandmother’s library. : )

  32. I suppose the next step will be a Motion to Recuse.

    • esentrick says:

      I wouldn’t put it pass MOM to attempt to remove Judge Nelson before the SYG/Immunity hearing. I remember him stating before in regards to removing Judge Lester, that he would not be doing his client any justice by not submitting the request or something to that affect. Given the account of events in the past weeks, I have a feeling he might at least attempt to remove Judge Nelson so he could get the next Judge who have been reviewed as a very soft judge.

      • He might just be down on his two knees begging for Lester back, as the case progresses. That man in NY (subway pushing) is claiming self-defense in his second-degree murder case, and he is being held without bail.

        Judge Nelson denied this motion without comment, so I doubt a motion to recuse will go anywhere this time.

        • @Crane-Station:

          How are you doing BTW? As a NYC resident, that mentally disturbed man who is claiming self defense will lose. To many subway strapers saw him arguing with that man, and then he pushed him down onto the tracks. He could have walked up the steps and out of the subway or reported whatever that man was allegedly doing to the subway clerk. He didn’t want to. He was a crazy fool and he should get what he deserves!

          • Oh, dear, what an awful story that was. But, if the man was truly in the grips of a mental illness (say, for example a psychotic break), he could have a mitigating factor. I don’t know that case at all, but it was just awful to read about.

            I am doing okay, thank you!

        • esentrick says:

          “He might just be down on his two knees begging for Lester back”

          LOL! I agree.

      • Rachael says:

        That’s true – here is an interesting site. I first looked at the part about how to recuse a judge, then this:


        Some examples:
        “judge’s excessive questions and sarcastic comments did not amount to “extreme overstepping of his proper judicial role”–conviction affirmed) Mostella, 802 F.2d at 362

        “finding trial judge’s impatience with defense, displays of irritation, and use of sarcasm, while inappropriate, were not prejudicial” Poland, 659 F.2d at 894

        “trial judge’s caustic, sarcastic comments and offensive conduct, although perhaps inconsistent with institutional standards of federal courts, did not violate due process” Gayle v. Scully, 779 F.2d at 807

        Trial judge’s skeptical attitude toward defendant’s testimony, and his reinforcement of identification evidence by government witnesses, “approached but did not cross the line that permits [a ruling] that the Constitution has been violated” Daye, 712 F.2d at 1572

        • Federal court rules regarding recusal are much tougher to meet than the rule in Florida. It’s an apples-to-oranges thing. No comparison.

          Federal judges are the kings and queens of their domain, which is the courtroom.

          He or she who is stupid enough to piss off a federal judge is as doomed as doomed can be.

          Filing a motion to recuse is an invitation to have your head severed from your shoulders.

          The type of behavior you mention is not uncommon in the federal courts.

          The judges also protect their own.

        • esentrick says:

          Thanks Rachael!

      • Malisha says:

        Judge Nelson just denied frivolous motions. There is NO jurisdiction in which a judge can be recused for denying a motion. Even a VALID motion; even a damn-near undeniable motion. Florida’s not going to advertise to the world that their appellate courts are full of fools and crumpets; believe me, this will not result in a recusal. Although, judging on O’Mara’s recent history, he may make an emergency motion to recuse her because to refuse to recuse her would damage his client’s reputation. Or the like. Maybe he’ll be waving around color pictures of the Judge’s nose at the oral argument!

    • Jun says:

      The less you say, the more powerful you are. I been saying all along that Omara is pulling the same tactics and they have not changed, including what he writes in the motions. Nelson has not said much, and in that, there is not much for the defense to go on. Besides, in this hearing, they finally got to the issue of the defense being fraudulent in their presentations and that will be brought up if Omara tries that motion. Omara went all over the media so they have lots to use against him.

  33. Xena says:

    GZ doesn’t want LLMPapa doing another video of him trying to fold paper the correct way, so he bought himself a folder.

    • blushedbrown says:

      Did anybody notice how O’mara kept saying Yes Mam. Yes Mam. Yes Mam. Yes Mam.
      Sound familar?
      He’s rubbing off on the man, geeeezzz

      • PYorck says:

        There might be a large overlap between people impressed by that kind of superficial politeness and people who are scared of teenagers in hoodies.

      • Tzar says:

        There might be a large overlap between people impressed by that kind of superficial politeness and people who are scared of teenagers in hoodies.

        brilliant intimation

      • KA says:

        Ma’am? Would she not be “Your Honor”

        • blushedbrown says:

          Either one is acceptable.
          O’mara using yes Ma’am over and over was too much like GZ for me. JMO

        • Xena says:

          Ma’am? Would she not be “Your Honor”

          Instructions for pro se litigants written by legal aid sources instruct them to always address the judge as “Your honor” or “judge.” That is how I always heard attorneys address the court but it might be different in other jurisdictions.

          • Your Honor is the proper way to address a judge, but I’ve seen lawyers use ma’am in the South, where it is commonly used as a formal way to address a woman in a position of authority.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Now, now, you two! : D

  34. Ty Flair says:

    BDLR said today that two black was kill,an it went to a grand jury an trail an the defeant won his selfdefense claim. where can i find this case at, the grand jury indicted him an he still got aquitted,i like to know more about that case.

  35. whonoze says:

    Here is my attempt to demonstrate how “the Wagner photo” distorts GZ’s facial geometry:

    • Tzar says:

      It is just that simple my friend

    • Tzar says:

      we are on the same page look at the 4th square

    • I can’t help it. I love Halloween and Cinema Secrets makeup, and one year my son and I were playing with fake blood…anyway, that photo reminds me of Halloween, because if you compare the sally port picture with the cop car photo, it looks like Cinema Secrets..

    • Jun says:

      I think the head was cut out and placed in. You can see it if you look closely, because there are no proper shadows associated within the picture

    • whonoze says:

      What I hadn’t noticed before is the right (cam left) nostril. It’s a total mismatch with the police station photos. And since it’s displacement is in the opposite direction from the displacement of the nose of the bridge, it simply impossible for the two together to be the result of a camera angle or lighting, or IMHO anything but an editing of the photo.

    • bettykath says:

      Skeptic here. A straight line down the center works with a straight on picture but not when the photo is at an angle. The head is ovate and when you turn it one way or the other you need to use an arc to mark the middle.


      This is one example. The angle of the Wagner’s photo isn’t at all extreme but enough that an arc vs a straight line can make a difference.

      The photo definitely has problems.but the straight line comparison doesn’t do it. An arc might show it but I’m not sure.

      • whonoze says:

        Look again.

        Arcing the line would only increase the deviation of the nose bridge from it.

        The deviation of the right (cam left) nostril line is revealed not so much by comparison to the ‘midline’ as by by comparison to the “mock” photo of another person in the ‘Wagnerian’ pose.

  36. colin black says:

    A Tug Boats job is igsignificant it is small with a powerfull engine built not for ocean or deep sea travell.Its one purpose is to tow magnificent ocean liners to big to manuvere safely close to shore in confined ports.Thus the comparriison is apt,Tugboat is a small ingsifnicant man dragging in his wake the huge presance of Trayvon an the movement thats coaleced around his Parents .An likeminded people around the world whom abhor the huge problems of raceism/ignorence/intolerance/An another huge issue of gun control.I M O Nothing to do with a citizen of Americas right to bear arms.Thats in there laws an its allowed..No its wether someone of the charecter of the acussed should be allowed to own a gun.And be allowed to carry said weapon consealed every where he went except work..An I suppose thats only besause he wasnt allowed by law to have a weapon at work …With twenty twenty hind sight looking back at this guys history its easy to see he was a walking bomb waiting to explode.Scary thing is is he is far from uniqe …Let him continue in his delussion all the way to that cell door slammin on his arse,We all know he is the small gog in a big wheel turning .I feel its turning in the right direction an in years to come gz will be little more than a footnote in the appendix of history.But Trayvon his Parents an the events surrounding there fight for justice will loom large…………

  37. Rachael says:

    This has a clip of Jr. and O’Mara. Some of the things they said just made me laugh out loud, some make me want to say duh and some just have me shaking my head. Too much to comment on.


  38. Dennis says:

    Doesn’t seem like the defense will want to play the “let’s have police testify for us” game. Now they have a memo which Serino and others recommend a 2nd degree murder charge. That is the complete opposite of what the defense claims regarding the police deciding whether or not to charge the defendant.

    • Xena says:

      Santiago’s depo didn’t go well for O’Mara either. Here, O’Mara thought that the meetings were to discuss whether or not to charge GZ, to find out they were task delegation and that Santiago had not seen GZ’s re-enactment video.

      • bettykath says:

        This couldn’t have been a surprise since it was in his motion. He should have seen how weak it was.

      • Erica says:

        did u read where carter cussed at santisgo when he was first revealing to santiago that charges had been filed, he said something like, “we’ve been fucked in our ass or they fucked us in the ass” did anybody ready that part? I thought it was very telling.

      • groans says:

        Xena, where are those depos available for reading, please?

        I didn’t know they’re available.
        Thank you!

        • Xena says:

          Xena, where are those depos available for reading, please?

          It’s only the depo with Santiago. Pages 1- 44 were not released. . I don’t remember now where I obtained it. Once I do obtain documents related to the case, I upload them to a Yahoo group so they are all in one place. However, Yahoo only allows documents under a certain size, in which case I email them from my personal email account to members of the group.

          It’s http://groups.yahoo.com/group/blackbutterfly768/

          It’s a private group, so once a request for membership is received, it has to be approved.

      • Erica says:

        The complete depo is on GZlegalcase.com. These comments Carter made to Santiago where during OMar 2nd re direct. You have to read it. It seems noone has read the entire thing. The SPD is in some very deap shit.

  39. For those of you who missed it, I just embedded a news clip of the hearing at the beginning of this post.

  40. fauxmccoy says:

    so, suffice to say gz is not getting much on his christmas list to santa… one can only surmise that he has not been a good boy this year.

  41. Jun says:


    I think I figured out where he photoshopped the nose from

    Look at the link, the pic of him in a blue shirt and a sport jacket… its that nose LOL

  42. Lonnie Starr says:

    following. Welcome back Professor, I see you got a nice little welcome back party by Judge Nelson, lol

  43. Xena says:

    According to GZ’s astrologer chart, starting in October was his time to come to grip with reality. Today was such a day for him. His reality is:
    1. He is charged with 2nd degree murder and the charge is not going to be dismissed. He is an accused murderer.

    2. The State and Judge Nelson are not allowing O’Mara and West to litigate the merits in the case in motions. That is for the immunity hearing and/or trial.

    3. The law, rules, and orders of the court apply to him, and are not being bent neither circumvented by the filing of motions regurgitating the same arguments.

    4. His media and internet presence has caused him more harm than good.

    • Jun says:

      I noticed, no matter what Omara asks for, whether it was to recuse the Lester or anything else

      it is

      1) Use witness 6’s recanted statements

      2) Wave photoshopped bloody photos

      3) Claim someone will identify the screamer as the defendant

      4) There is loads of evidence of innocence

      5) Then asks for what he wants

      • Xena says:

        IMO, O’Mara does not represent GZ in court but rather, engages in a selling GZ’s purported innocence in hope of getting more people to send in money.

        O’Mara is getting thick around the waist too — too much stress.

      • Jun says:

        Another trick that Omara plays is to dupe either the state or the judge to divulge into the evidence before the actual trial and SYG hearing if asked for

        He did it to Lester

        And tried it with the state numerous times

        Then he did it to Lester again and then used the same formula for his appellate court motion

        Now he tried it the past few weeks LOL

        He’d be less stressed if he would do actual work and not listen to the Tinfoil Hat cult and the Fogenhat’s family

        Also why is West so slow?

        The guy had to get explained to for the same thing like 5 times sometimes

      • Malisha says:

        Don’t worry about the identity of the screams any more.

        Apparently, thanks to the 7-11 visit, there are exemplars of both Fogan’s voice and of Trayvon Martin’s voice. This makes a plot for a TV forensics show. 😀

  44. Tee says:

    I don’t understand why this guy GZ needs a bullet proof vest & a bodyguard. He is not living in reality, a bodyguard really he’s just plum crazy & he really overestimates his importance.

    • rayvenwolf says:

      Personally until I see some proof of continued threats(would love how thats happening since no one who would knows where he is)I am gonna continue to assume its a ploy for money.

    • Jun says:

      It is all an act. There is no need for anyone to get at the defendant as the State of Florida and the Federal Government is already doing it for everyone LMAO

      In fact, he could get prosecuted twice and due to dual sovereign doctrine, the defendant can not do anything about it and could very well get 2 life sentences without parole LMAO

    • Xena says:

      He is not living in reality, a bodyguard really he’s just plum crazy & he really overestimates his importance.

      Yeah. That’s true, but let the bodyguards make some money — deplete GZ’s legal defense fund faster. (Hehehehe)

      Can’t help but wonder how the racial bigots sending GZ money feel about him having a Black bodyguard that he pays with their money.

      • Rachael says:

        They probably like it – makes him (the bodyguard) thugworthy you know – in a way a white bodyguard could not be. And it gives GZ ammunition to say he isn’t racist. Maybe he will start quoting Martin Luther King Jr., just like Jr. did because that proves it, you know.

        • esentrick says:

          Too funny! but so true…

        • Xena says:

          They probably like it – makes him (the bodyguard) thugworthy you know – in a way a white bodyguard could not be.

          IC. Racial prejudicial profiling. (hehehehe)

          And it gives GZ ammunition to say he isn’t racist.

          That will work as well as asking a drowning man if he wants to be saved when the only person to save him is someone he hates.

          Maybe he will start quoting Martin Luther King Jr., just like Jr. did because that proves it, you know.

          IMO, Junior is merely repeating words. He has no idea of their true meaning. It’s like a preacher standing before the congregation and saying, “Today’s sermon is taken from John 3:16,” reads the verse, then sits down. Where’s the sermon? MLK PREACHED. His words that are quoted by Junior are absent the spirit.

      • Jun says:

        Junior’s a strange character

        That guy should never quote MLK because it makes me cringe due to him abusing his quotes

        • Xena says:

          That guy should never quote MLK because it makes me cringe due to him abusing his quotes

          IMO, Junior is a Jim Jones. He will quote MLK and anyone else if he believes it manipulates others to do what he wants. The same people listening to Junior are opposed to the Civil Rights Movement. Hypocrites.

    • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

      And just like BDLR said, he walks in the front doors of the courthouse with media right behind. I watched him do it today on TV. He is NOT in fear for his life. I didn’t even see his bodyguard in the clip either.

    • Malisha says:

      I think he might need a bullet proof vest if he were acquitted, actually, but he won’t need one at all while he’s still on trial. Everybody who might be afraid of him AFTER an acquittal (and who therefore might need to use deadly force because of their fear of him) is not afraid of him now that he’s unarmed.

      Remember, Fogen would not have gotten out of his schtruck if he didn’t have a loaded gun with him.

    • bettykath says:

      I think there are real threats. There may very well be a gang that would use killing him as some sort of initiation or for additional street cred. I’m sure it’s been discussed. Let’s hope there is some rational person who can point out that the state is taking care of business. They may want him to fry but getting the defendant in jail would be a good thing.

      • I disagree. I do not believe that he is in any danger at all and he’s just playing this charade in an effort to garner sympathy and money.

        I also do not believe the family is living incognito as vagabonds moving from one motel to another to avoid discovery.

        I think that story is even more absurd than his.

        • jm says:

          Professor: “I also do not believe the family is living incognito as vagabonds moving from one motel to another to avoid discovery.”

          OMG I heard MOM say this on his In Session interview, that the parents were moving from home to hotel to hotel to hotel with Chorge’s elderly grandmother who has Alzheimer’s.

          All I could think of is why are they in a hotel that they need to keep switching and why hasn’t MOM secured a rental property for them.

          I can’t imagine them traveling with an ill 88-year-old Alzheimer’s victim and checking into hotel after hotel after hotel. Are they being kicked out?

          It was one of MOM’s more preposterous lies trying to get sympathy and $$$$.

          Sorry if this breaks the rules but I have to say it. They are all full of BS.

    • Malisha says:

      The bullet-proof vest is kind of silly when you consider the fact that one shot to the back of his neck would paralyze him for life and one shot to the back of his head could kill him outright. He must think that only really poor shots are out to kill him and that they are limited to shooting him in the chest as he shot Martin.

  45. colin black says:

    We might have to curtail our more harsh word for the accused an his zteam.Nothing said about not being able to gloat.An bask in the comfort of knowing his day of reckoning cometh…His lawer had to know one hundred percent that the ankle moniter would remain in place..So he was simply trying to squeeze sympathy an dollars out of the few deluded plp that backhim.The grouchomarx photo an this pointless motion was a ploy for cash..In this season of goodwill to all men please remember the defendant .An give supportt theve prevented him from travelling .Even though he is the most hated man in the world an is holed up in a converted nuclear bunker for his own protection..They have stoppped him from visiting all his freinds like the middle eastern guy he used to work with he an george used have so much fun.An all of the African children an youths in the neighbourhood each an every one of them he knew even with his adhd an bad memory.An he cant mentor those black kids whom releid on george to mentor them every sunday night just before he went to TARGET an bought grocerys an then went out an TARGETED a black kid an forced to shoot him to protect his own life If Trayvon had inflicted any more scrapes on his head.He would have died at the hands of Shellie smothered alive in tampons an bag ass butterlfly plasters he would have needed a straw to breathe.Remember he is the victim in all this an those kids he mentored they are innocent .They should also be victimised an made to miss ther zimmertime..An his onlly freinds the ostermans he cant even visit them as they are wittness in his upcomeing crusifixion. And they kinnda wrote a book that we dont realy aprove of as it contains yet more versions of what my client swears is the truth about that night..An its got to be true as his story changes every time he tells it.Id be worried if it remained constant…Even the few knuckle heads whom supported this idiot wont dig into there pockets thats it done deal its over man..Expect the deffendant to file for indingcy Febury if not before………….

    • Two sides to a story says:

      The legal team plays Tugboat supporters like a harp.

      • Xena says:

        Like a person with 6 hands playing piano. They got the idea from GZ’s description of Trayvon having 6 hands. If it worked for him for more than a month, why shouldn’t it work for them? LOL!

    • Cercando Luce says:

      “Zimmertime” LOL

    • Tzar says:

      If Trayvon had inflicted any more scrapes on his head.He would have died at the hands of Shellie smothered alive in tampons an bag ass butterlfly plasters he would have needed a straw to breathe

      OMG, you paint a hilarious picture

    • grahase says:

      If he could not travel, they asked clarification about contact with witnesses. I would bet the defence would have played up the fact that the poor, deprived killer would be unable to celebrate the holiday with family and friends. So sad. The judge didn’t bite. The defence strategy for Christmas funds for Thugboat didn’t work. But, he just wanted to wander about Florida to buy gifts to put under the tree. Now, he can only buy on-line and will only have the ability to call his loved ones rather than join them at the table. Sad, so sad. Please, send more money. Christmas is just around the corner.

  46. Two sides to a story says:

    The picture posted at the Treestump of GZ and – his bodyguard? – is priceless ~


  47. rayvenwolf says:

    For those who missed the hearing like myself https://www.youtube.com/user/stateoftheinternet

  48. colin black says:

    Oh an the motion will be heard at next hearing next year.Wasnt heard today because wasnt filled in a timely matter…..Bad day all round for the accused an his zteam from what I am reading ..Can ah get a high FIVE………………

  49. colin black says:

    jm says:

    December 11, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    What happened to the motion to seal Chorge’s text messages and e-mails? Does anyone think it will be denied
    …Missed the hearing today….But given Floridas Sunshine Lawa we will be reading all the defendants hatefull emails txts rantings from any journals or diarys seized…Both before the murder if deemed pertinent.An definately all from after he pulled the trigger to snuff out Trayvons life.The ultimate theif in the night steals a Childs life an last screams begging for mercy an his Mother…And turns around smirking that he derserved to die???….We will get to read them no matter how damageing or encriminateing to the accused..M O M tried to pull the same argument before the kissing Cousins interveiws were released to the public saying that it would be damageing to his clients rep ya de da da da da .We wondered what did he mean an then we read.Her comments of raceism as standard practice in there family plus the accused was molestering her from her aged 7 an he 8 I I RC…An then we all understood why he wanted it remained under seal..But it wasnt an neither will the txts emails journals ect..m o o.

    • Tzar says:

      I hope you are right
      i had thought that Lester and the state agreed that they would be sealed but now I am not sure what is going on

    • Malisha says:

      How can anybody damage O’Mara’s client’s reputation?

      While Schwartzenegger was governor of California they passed a law that said if you got a disability finding in, say, 1997 or something, then after that, if you got hit by a truck or something, and you were totally disabled, they would only count it as “partial” because you had already BEEN partially disabled. So they parceled a human being up to make them ability/disability packets so they could avoid large judgments if anybody, say, dumped someone in a wheelchair off a bridge or something.

      Very callous law, etc. A friend of mine had an injury when she was young and later, because of this law, when she really got hurt she could only apply for a partial disability. I’m just saying this (don’t know too much about the case-law following the passage of that law in California) as background.

      Since NBC destroyed the reputation of a perfectly wonderful decent American, and since Sharpton’s racism destroyed the credibility of a perfectly wonderful decent American, HOW MUCH DAMAGE COULD A FEW TEXT MESSAGES DO NOW? He was already the most hated man in America. Those text messages could say he wanted to torture puppies to death in front of kindergarten classes while masturbating and it wouldn’t damage his reputation. By definition!

      • Jun says:

        That is true

        He is already a child stalker and kilelr

        then we found out allegations of a cousin he molested for a decade and attempted rape on

        and then we heard all the other stories

        The defendant in the Trayvon Martin Murder case is incapable of further defamation

        It is impossible to slander him

      • bettykath says:

        Actually, he is an alleged ………. and presumed innocent. If he is found not guilty, his reputation has been irreparably besmirched.

      • Jun says:

        For child stalking and being a killer of that child, it is beyond dispute that that is what he did

        I would not say there are any allegations there

  50. Good on Judge Nelson!

    Who does this punk think he is? He murders a kid in cold blood, steals the child’s screams as his own and then asks the court to take off his GPS tracking so he can roam around the state selling his autograph for money!

    Burn in hell, George Zimmerman!

    • Jun says:

      LMAO she denied it like it was nothing and then moved on so fast LMAO

      WTF at Omara with the photoshopped pictures and that Trayvon is 6 foot 2 & 170 pounds

      Okay now I know the defendant was online spreading that rumor

      • Tzar says:

        LMAO she denied it like it was nothing and then moved on so fast LMAO

        ha ha ha
        that was my favorite part
        “motion denied. Where are we ordering lunch today?”
        that was sweet

      • Rachael says:

        It was like listening to the lid of a box slam shut.

      • Jun says:

        I like the fact that she is fast and to the point. Lester was good too, but he always tried to be poetic when denying things or whatever decision he made.

    • gblock says:

      I’m in California. I didn’t tune in in time for the hearing, but I did listen to the interviews and commentary for a while.

      In my opinion, Judge Nelson would have to be either really stupid or really on GZ’s side to grant the motion to remove the GPS tracking device.

  51. Tzar says:

    To this day I still have not watched Tracy or Sybrina speak on TV. I plain can’t handle it. The indignity of having to campaign and plead with a country to exact the rule of law on behalf of their son, all the while having to suffer through his daily defamation and vilification with no immediate recourse, had been just too much for me to bear.

    They have had to show patience that I don’t even dare imagine I could achieve. No matter what happens, I know two things, Trayvon Martin was lawful and minding his own business the night he was killed and I…we can never give the Martins back their beautiful child and that breaks my…our heart(s). And that is why you sometimes…often even will find me…us here or there discussing this case. It is not simply because I…we hate Mr. Zimmerman-May his name be forgotten- it is because of love. Love for the little guy, the underdog, because I…we have been the little guy. It is because of the love of fairness. It is because of the love of hope for society which means a love of children because therein lies the hope of society; If they must watch coldness and callousness prevail, what hope do we have that a society will prevail that is warm and caring? If they must watch slyness and chicanery prevail, what hope do we have that a society will prevail that is earnest and genuine?

    So no Mr. Zimmerman-may your name be forgotten- it is not simply that that you are the, self titled, “most hated man in America”, it is that love and compassion are most loved in America and, going by the range of protests to your release by SPD, the world.

  52. dremn2004 says:


  53. Xena says:

    When O’Mara said that GZ’s wife’s case would be decided by another judge, my mouth fell. He doesn’t know that Judge Nelson presides in Shellie’s case too?

  54. bettykath says:

    Hope someone posts a link to the hearing.

    • Rachael says:

      Oops did I post in the wrong place? @Xena, he acknowledged it would be her right after he daid that but it was sort of under his breath.

  55. Ty Flair says:

    BDLR said you could hear two voices in the 911 calls,are there more 911 calls we have not heard yet.

    • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

      I would have to say yes, because several people called 911 that night and I only remember hearing only two of them.

    • Tee says:

      Yes there are, I heard the reporter say this very thing that there are more 911 calls that the public had yet to hear.

    • Nefertari05 says:

      I remember there being at least 6 calls released, back at the beginning, when the Mayor or City Manger (can’t remember which one) released them. IIRC – The Martins were about to or just had filed a suit to be able to hear them and they were all released and were up on the SPD’s website. It was at that time that Ms. Fulton heard the screams for help, and ran from the room sobbing. If you remember the articles about that incident, that was when all the calls were up at the same time.

      My personal recollection is only of two calls. The one with the screams and the one from Austin’s home. I’m sure I’ve probably blocked out the others simply from being overloaded with such disturbing information.

      Here’s the complete list with links:

      • OMG i never heard that story of Sybrina hearing them. I cannot imagine! poor thing. just horrible. so bad.

        but yeah, Ben Crump had to sue them (SPD) to release the 911 tapes. and i haven’t heard most of them for the same reason.

      • I remember reading Sybrina ran from the room when she heard the screams. I can’t imagine the horror she felt. And now she has to hear the person who took her child’s life has now stolen his screams. It’s just too much!

      • Jun says:

        There was a session where the mayor was there with Sybrina and Crump and the mayor cried with Sybrina and then became extremely disappointed in Chief Lee. The mayor then contacted Scott and then Scott assigned Corey to serve justice and all of the SPD and other officials were to assist in any way needed by Corey and her team.

  56. Xena says:

    Trent Sawyer has posted the hearings in several videos on his stateoftheinternet channel.

  57. jm says:

    Not a law professional and have only followed 2 cases, Chorge Zimmerman and previously Casey Anthony.

    I would love to know if tactics used by MOM are typical of a defense attorney? By that I mean telling half-truths, omitting the whole story in his motions, cherry-picking what he presents, and misstating things like Trayvon’s height and weight that should be well-known to MOM from autopsy reports, flashing the “injured Chorge picture, etc. Isn’t that trying to mislead the judge and an insult to her intelligence, in hopes she will believe half a story and his misrepresentations?

    Is there a point a defense attorney can cross in his presentation in court and be held accountable.

    • It’s sleazy and improper. The judge and the prosecutor know it, but I don’t think anything will be done about it because lawyers basically have immunity for stuff they do and say in court.

      The judge can use her contempt powers, if she gets angry enough.

      I don’t believe she is likely to do that because she would be taking a position on the evidence by doing so and courting the same kind of trouble that Judge Lester got into.

      • Jun says:

        I was getting kind of the feeling that Omara wrote the motions to try to bait the judge like he did with Lester because he used the same modus operandi, of enticing the issue by stating the weight of the evidence and how it shows his client is innocent… then he complains about this and that, and then flat out lies about the kid being 6 foot 2 & 170 or so pounds pummeling and it has already been stated that is what trial is for

      • Tzar says:

        Jun says:
        December 11, 2012 at 2:06 pm

        I was getting kind of the feeling that Omara wrote the motions to try to bait the judge like he did with Lester

        I said as much the very first hearing seeing how rude both he and west were to the judge (interrupting her, arguing with her)

    • groans says:

      I do expect she’ll keep a tighter rein on defense shenanigans during trial – certainly, at least, whenever the jury is in the courtroom.

  58. PYorck says:

    The defendant’s motion to clarify the conditions of his release was an effort to obtain permission to contact friends. Judge Nelson denied the motion noting that Judge Lester had imposed the conditions and there had not been any material change of circumstances to alter those conditions. She noted parenthetically that she did not see any prohibition in the order that would not allow him to contact his friends.

    In other words, the motion was a waste of the court’s time.

    What was that all about?

    My naive interpretation would have been the same as Judge Nelson’s. Was there legitimate doubt about that?

    This motion did not even allow them to push any narrative that they hadn’t covered with the other motions. Could they benefit from a clarification in any less obvious way like getting a clarification that is not exactly identical to the conditions in the second bond order?

  59. groans says:

    Regarding the “voice identification” issue, it was nice to hear BDLR say quietly today: “Actually, there might be TWO voices on there.” Or something like that.

    There actually ARE two voices heard outside on the 911 call that has the cries for help. I was shocked when someone pointed that out on this blog. So I tinkered with the recording on some audio software, and even I could hear it! (I don’t hear much in one ear.) It was so distressful listening to an angry male voice interrogating the terrified teen on death’s doorstep that I had to stop listening.

    Now if little ol’ I could tease that out to make it more audible, just imagine what the prosecutors’ experts and/or NBC could do with it …!

    • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

      Groans- I asked on the other thread, but I see you put here as well…what was the angry male saying? Could you make out words?

      • Xena says:

        I hear GZ’s voice in the background of that recording but can’t make out any word he says other than the “f” word. It is clearly heard just after Jeremy comes back in and tells his wife to tell the cops to hurry up. It has been reported that the FBI has the tape of that call to enhance.


      • bettykath says:

        I heard “f@ck” in a quieter deeper voice and the intonation suggested that it was a descriptor not an exclamation, as in “shut the f@ck up”. But I didn’t the words around “f@ck”.

        I expect the prosecution has been able to determine what those words were.

      • groans says:

        I couldn’t make out the words, either. But some of them had the upward inflection of a question – like questions that ended in “HUH???” or “WHAT???” (with an upwards inflection).

      • @ChrisNYLaurie:
        Actually, you can hear GZ in the background along with John. It sounds to me like GZ is interrogating TM because TM is screaming, “I don’t know! I don’t know em! I’m begging you!” Then I hear the F word! I hope to God the FBI can enhance this tape so we can make out the words. At least clearly as to what TM is saying, even though we clearly hear him begging for his life! This man needs to be exposed for the liar that he is! He has held the world hostage for the last few months! Him and his Attorney! He is the only defendant in the last few years who has whined and complained!

      • Deborah G-M…..That’s exactly what I heard too! (I had on a set of headphones that fit over my ears.) It took forever to download that call on my computer but, I will NEVER FORGET those screams and that poor, innocent, terrorized kid begging for his life……. Everytime I am in a store and see a package of Skittles, I hear that voice begging for his life. How does GZ not hear it? He has no conscience, no soul……GZ is nothing but complete narcississtic evil.

      • Operacarla says:

        At the 3 second mark you can definately hear “Get off”

      • groans says:

        Thank you, OperaCarla!

        1. To hear the second (adult male, “interrogating”) voice, the key may be to:

        (A) Use headphones;
        (B) Close your eyes before you hit the Play button; and,
        (C) Listen BEFORE any conversation starts – before the operator says anything.

        2. I hear the younger voice (from outside) scream “GET OFF ME!” at around 3 seconds, too.

        2. Also, at 00:34 Jeremy hurriedly tells the caller, “They need to call in a car.” It sounds to me as if he might have SEEN the killer aiming a gun at Trayvon, because the gunshot follows shortly after that. Then you can hear Jeremy saying “Oh my God” a couple of times, and other stuff.

        3. And then – at 1:30 – shortly AFTER the gunshot, Jeremy says something (pretty fuzzy) that sounds like, maybe, “He warned me he was a carrier.” (??)

      • Tzar says:

        Every time I listen to that boy’s screams and think of Zimmerman-may his name be forgotten- and his attorney repeatedly claiming that it is the killer’s voice, I simply want to do things to both of them that would only land me in prison. Shake my damn head at these so & so’s.

      • Tzar says:

        And every time I listen I am convinced he had help restraining the boy, because Trayvon sounds like he is in physical pain and with one hand holding the gun I can’t imagine he managed to inflict that kind of pain with just the other.

        • PiranhaMom says:


          Trayvon screamed in both fear and pain. If you are going to subdue another adult-sized person by being in the mounted position, you must be concerned about your victim’s legs and arms – particularly the arms, which can create all kinds of problems for you.

          Therefore, the strategy is to kneel on your victim’s arms. Zimmerman weighed in at 207 lbs. that night at the police station. Can you imagine the agony for Trayvon with that weight pinpointed on his lanky arms? Get a friend to try that: kneeling on your arms. You can’t stand it for more than a second, nor can you escape.

          Zimmerman was not sitting back with his butt on Trayvon. He was kneeling on Trayvon, kneeling forward on Trayvon’s arms, to draw his gun from its holster (using his right hand) while he held Trayvon’s shirts in a grasp with his left hand – the dominant hand.

          All his weight, then, would be loaded on Trayvon’s arms, through Zimmerman’s kneecaps – and kneecaps aren’t padded.

          Although the data has not been released, FDLE requested analysis of “fiber” along with blood. I don’t know what other data they will look for. We saw in photos the grass on the front tips of Zimmerman’s boots – from kneeling on Trayvon. But I can bet they are not going to find grass stains on the knees of Zimmerman’s jeans. You don’t get grass stains from kneeling on a kid.

          You get screams.

          Unless you silence them.

      • Tzar says:

        right at 00:36/37 after Trayvon howls someone says in a very authoritative manner, “KEEP STILL!”.

      • gblock says:

        Yes, near the beginning, it was easy to hear Trayvon screaming, “Get off! Get off!” And I also heard the voice saying “Be still”, although that was not very distinct.

      • Tzar says:


        My girlfriend believes as you do. It is a possibility, I just think that a spry and adrenalized 17 yo would be difficult to single-handedly compromise that way.

      • Cercando Luce says:

        groans and PiranhaMom together have nailed this. That horrible man shot the teenager because he was getting out from under him.
        Fiber analysis will find denim on the arms of Trayvon’s hoody and hoody fibers on the knees of the denim pants. Trayvon struggled to get out from under that evil horrible man and nearly succeeded. That’s why that horrible man grabbed the hoody and sweatshirt together and pulled on them as he shot. And that’s how a drop of blood from that horrible man’s nose fell onto the inner sweatshirt– the struggle had made Trayvon’s hoody ride up enough to expose it.

        And I agree with groans: at 1:30 in the call I hear Jeremy say “He warned me he’s a carrier.”

        • blushedbrown says:

          you wrote:

          And I agree with groans: at 1:30 in the call I hear Jeremy say “He warned me he’s a carrier.”

          WOW! I heard that too , but did not understand the context of it, until right now. Thank you.

          That witness has alot of explaining to do.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Xena, let’s just hope they don’t come back and say the same thing they said about not being able to hear in reference to him saying F’ing COONS. he said it and, you don’t really need them to say for sure what he said because, it is plain as day that those were his words. this is also why the defense wants his text and email messages sealed because, they know the messages are filled with racist rants. these should not be kept from the public because, this thing killed an innocent child in cold blood and, I feel that he should be outed instead of being able to hide who he really is. he is a murder defendant who killed an AA kid and now he is wanting to hide things that he wrote to others like him. once again, they want to find out from Trayvon’s school records if there were things in there that they could use to make him look bad in the public eye. they are now going after the pin number to his cell phone while at the same time, *they want to hide things that could prove to the world, who the real George Zimmerman is.* here’s hoping Judge Nelson will not allow this. the state didn’t have the chance to cherry pick what the defense could see in the school records and, the same should should apply to the defense in this instance.

      • FactsFirst says:

        if you listen closely at the :40 second mark, you’ll hear GZ yell “HELP” almost like he’s imitating Trayvon’s scream… I’m willing to bet if someone analyze the last scream for help it’s GZ’s and all the other screams are TRAYVON MARTINS… SMDH I hated typing this comment because the Zimmernuts will throw it in the spin cycle and try to use it against Trayon.. Listen closely at the last scream at the 30 second mark just before the gunshot, then listen closely to the two screams before that on opracarla’s video and let me know what you guys think…

        • Xena says:

          The last “help” that I hear is faint and cut short by the gunshot. IMO, the faintness is due to a change of physical position away from where the 911 caller was. Before that, and just before the cry that sounds like pain, there is a second of so where the screams stop and that is when GZ’s voice is again heard cursing at Trayvon.

          GZ had a Freudian slip in his re-enactment where he says “He put my hand over his mouth — his hand over my mouth…” IMO, GZ put his hand over Trayvon’s mouth and as Trayvon managed to get himself out of that, he spat out a cry and thus, the reason for the saliva on Trayvon’s mouth in his photo shown to Tracy.

    • Jun says:

      It would be better if you could get a unredacted copy of the phone call because I do hear a second voice too

      I hear someone saying something while a kid is screaming but what the defendant says is not clear

      i also believe that the defendant howled at the screaming kid, while threatening him before shooting the kid while the kid screamed for help

    • Tzar says:

      My prediction: it will be shown that the killer tells Trayvon to “Keep Still” or “Keep him still” to someone not Trayvon just before Trayvon is shot.

      • You could be right, but no witness we know about has described more than two people present when he fired the fatal shot.

        There remains the mystery of the person in a white shirt and the 8-year-old who supposedly saw everything.

      • PiranhaMom says:

        @Tzar –

        Any idea what “Jeremy” is saying when he says, “He warned me to … ”

        I seem to be hearing something like “chaircho” with emphasis on the first syllable. What could Zimmerman be warning Jeremy against doing? To keep his mouth shut?

      • Tzar says:

        You could be right, but no witness we know about has described more than two people present when he fired the fatal shot.

        I think the neighbors don’t want to snitch on one of their own. I think it is John.

        PiranhaMom says:
        December 12, 2012 at 12:28 am

        @Tzar –

        Any idea what “Jeremy” is saying when he says, “He warned me to … ”

        @ JQ I believe those of us who claimed to be able to hear it, myself included, came to a consensus of “he warned me to stay away” or “he warned me off”.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Tzar, please can someone tell me why this POS isn’t having his murder charged bumped up to first degree premeditated? also, this guy Jeremy *AND* his wife both know more than they are telling. Zimmerman should be locked up for the rest of his *miserable* life and, I hope he will also see Trayvon face as well as hear his screams for help for the rest of his days.

        • Tzar says:

          I sense that Him and John know more than they are telling and one of them may be covering their own involvement

          • @Tzar:

            Trent Sawyer, did a video in regard to John and his wife knowiing more than they are saying. Check it out on Youtube! GZ was the one who was knociking on their back door, but he had to go around to the front, since they do not use their back door. As for the frivolous lawsuit? GZ is a true socio-path! What he won/’t do for a buck and free publicity! He envisions himself on a stage and every one is watching him! The most hated man in America? Why should he have that distinction? He is not the most hated man in America! PUHLEESE? Some people on my job, don’t even know who he is and don’t give a Sh$% about him! They do not follow this case!

          • Xena says:

            It’s Jeremy and his wife Jenna, who is on the HOA Board.

    • Dan Q. Smith says:

      I’ve read about this but haven’t heard it (Fogen’s voice). Oh my. How terrible. I’m not trying to demonize him. I believe he’s evil.

      • ladystclaire says:

        He is what he his and that is, the spawn of *SATAN* himself! you can’t demonize someone who is already a *DEMON*!

  60. Jun says:

    You know what would be a funny skit?

    Santa and the defendant in this case LMAO

  61. esentrick says:


  62. groans says:

    What about the Re-Re-Motion to Compel Crump’s recording device?

    I didn’t hear anything about it today, but I tuned in a few minutes late. Any mention of that one?

    • Jun says:

      I think they got the message to not bring it up, because it has been ruled so many times

    • I believe that motion is moot because Crump turned over his recording device to the FDLE.

      • Jun says:

        The defense are still playing games about the recording device

        They wrote a reply back to the state, saying it is not moot yet and they want a chain of custody for the recording device and a copy from it, yet again

      • jm says:

        What happened to the motion to seal Chorge’s text messages and e-mails? Does anyone think it will be denied?

      • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

        Plus they wanted to know if there is another recording of the interview, a better recording, and if anybody else that was present recorded it too. Judge Nelson told them to ask Crump when the depose him.

        • blushedbrown says:

          I think the reasoning for all demands for the 1st recording and recorder and everyone elses copy is that they the defense team, does not want ABC coming out with their own unedited and or crystal clear recording besides the one that was used. And beat the defense team to the punch, If ABC broadcasts a more complete recording then what they have, it kinda gut punches them.

          I believe all news stations wait for the optimal blow if get my meaning. Just like when Madonna pose nude in Playboy when she was young. Then the pictures didn’t come out till she was on her way to stardom. Same thing with Vanessa Williams.

      • boar_d_laze says:


        Just curious. Why do you refer to Mr. Zimmerman as Chorge? Or, for that matter, Cheorge?

        I understand that you’re not the only one, probably didn’t originate it, and am not pointing any fingers. I’m just hoping to understand.

        • jm says:

          I use the name “Chorge” because another poster was pointing out the funny way GZ pronounced certain words on NEN call and I thought it did indeed sound like he was saying Chorge. Since some would prefer not to mention GZ’s given name on this blog, I refer to him as Chorge in my posts. I am not sure exactly who started it, but it wasn’t me. I’m not that clever.

      • Rachael says:

        @ boar_d_laze, they are saying his name with a stereotypical Hispanic accent. IMO, it kind of borders on being racist, but I also understand why some don’t wish to use his given name as per Trayvon Martin Case: Banishing Zimmerman’s Name


        • jm says:

          “they are saying his name with a stereotypical Hispanic accent. IMO, it kind of borders on being racist.”

          I didn’t realize this was stereotypical Hispanic. I thought it was just the way GZ pronounced his name on NEN call, just like he says he was at the kalubhouse and he was in his schruck.

          Sorry if I sounded racist. Just trying to comply with not using GZ’s given name but close enough so newer posters would know who I was talking about.

      • Jun says:

        The name that I thought up, which i found funny was

        Zimmernuts Fogenhats the 3rd

        But I call him Fogenhats for short

        or if I feel like talking like a pro legal person, the defendant or accused


      • fauxmccoy says:

        could not reply directly to boar d laze – am glad to see you back in the saddle again.

      • Malisha says:

        There is no “chain of custody” for Crump’s recording device because it is not evidence of a crime.

      • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

        OOh Malisha…You are absolutely right. He gave it FDLE, so that’s it. No chain of custody.

        @blushedbrown- So, do you think that they want to have it for it’s monetary value? Shameless leaches.

    • groans says:

      Here’s what I found from a LA Times article:

      “… Nelson allowed the defense to re-depose police investigator William Erwin, who the defense says was present when police played a 911 audio for Trayvon Martin’s father.

      “Prosecutors also will have to turn over to the defense the original recording of Benjamin Crump’s interview of a girl identified as Martin’s girlfriend. Crump is one of the attorneys for the Martin family.”

      Source: http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-court-george-zimmerman-gps-monitoring-20121211,0,7615459.story

      • groans says:

        Maybe this article is referring to the LAST hearing, rather than today’s hearing?

      • groans says:

        I should have said “this quote” rather than “this article.” (SMH)

      • Nefertari05 says:

        No, it was this hearing. It was scheduled for 9am, but apparently it started earlier. I turned it on at 9am, and they were already at the point regarding Crump’s interview and ABC, and I’ve read elsewhere that even before that she discussed which motions she was going to hear today and which she was holding over to the next hearing.

      • groans says:

        Thank you, Nefertari!

  63. Jun says:

    I was fairly close in my guess =)

    She also denied it slickly and left nothing for Omara to try and spin LMAO

  64. blushedbrown says:

    Could you please clear up some discussion in the other thread, referring to “Brady” that was mentioned in the hearing in regards to Serino. I think I have that right. I’ll go back and check who posted it, if that helps.

    • Brady material is any evidence in the prosecution’s custody, possession or control that exculpates the defendant. The emails or memos that BDLR mentioned are not exculpatory to the defendant, but they are exculpatory as to Serino.

      I believe BDLR mentioned them to refute O’Mara’s claim that the brass did not want to charge the defendant with a crime and he was careful to point out that Baez called them exculpatory, so he was turning them over to the defense. Rather emphatic put down that took the defense and the defendant by surprise. Probably, the judge too.

      • blushedbrown says:

        So it beehooves O’mara to shut his mouth about the brass not wanting charges, because BAEZ, has other evidence saying otherwise. Possibly more. I now understand. Thank you.

        • Yes, you got it.

          This kind of move is called firing a shot across the bow.

          I think it got their attention.

          • blushedbrown says:

            What a shot it was. I hope that this puts some people minds at ease regarding Bernie’s abilities at rest. From the very begining of court hearings, people thought he wasn’t aggressive enough. I have said this before on older threads, and the previous thread that Bernie has alot of passion. He’s just saving it for the right time. He comes across to me as a skilled strategist. He gives the other side all the rope they want, then hangs em with it.

      • Tzar says:


      • Eric says:

        Is this an indication that the feds are coming down the road?

      • Jun says:

        Omara was flat out lying because even in the depositions, there was no mention of them saying that they did not want charges or they should not charge, they all stated that they either felt there was not enough and some felt there was enough to move forward, and they were discussing the case and what to do…

      • Two sides to a story says:

        This is wonderful news!

      • LLMPapa says:

        My mind could be changed in the blink of an eye regarding Serino.

        Do the right thing Detective for, using YOUR words, “a kid with a future with folks that care.”

        Do the right thing.

      • Tee says:

        I really liked that he did that, MOM was not expecting hat one. Also it gave the defense a lil bit of there own medicine by stating what Serino stated twice in his report, for everyone to hear.I loved it.

      • FactsFirst says:

        Personally, I believe the way Baez gave De la Rhonda the exculpatory evidence was Serino’s way of saying “Aye, I’m on y’all TEAM”….. low key…

      • bettykath says:

        So the prosecution doesn’t have to turn over stuff that’s against the defendant, just the stuff that might show him not guilty.

      • bettykath says:

        I need to pay more attention to my punctuation. That last was really a question. That would explain why some stuff hasn’t been released?

        • Xena says:

          There’s plenty of stuff that has been released, but O’Mara doesn’t know where the State is going with it, such as the clubhouse and M&I Bank videos; the lab report on the bullet holes in Trayvon’s shirts, and the lab report on debris.

          Rather than finding experts in effort to see how the State might use that evidence, he’s concentrating on photos of boo-boo’s that weren’t serious enough to leave permanent scaring on GZ’s face and head — you know, those purported life-threatening injuries.

    • @ BlushedBrown says:I hope that this puts some people minds at ease regarding Bernie’s abilities at rest. From the very beginning of court hearings, people thought he wasn’t aggressive enough
      Very good point. I agree with you. I tend to be pretty loyal and defensive of BDLR & Corey regardless of what i see them do! Maybe because i really really really want them to be successful and i’m unconsciously ignoring anything negative…IDK but you’re totally right about BDLR’s passion. and i still think Corey is too.

      The other day i watched her presser (agian) when she announced the 2nd Degree Murder charges and she seems damn convincing in her conviction in this case.

      Yeah, to me it’s kinda strange in that she’s so smiley and sweet, ya know? but whatever floats her boat i guess…

      BTW, i forgot to tell you, the other day i posted a video from you on my page!!

      • blushedbrown says:

        Oh thank you Shannon!
        As soon as I get another break from the kitchen, I will hop on over!

      • I feel the same way when I read about some posters criticizing the prosecution. There are many instances where I believe that we don’t always know what’s going on behind the scenes, why the prosecution is choosing not to use info that we believe they have or should be using. I think they could be saving what they have for a more opportune time or that they don’t always want to reveal HOW they are going to use evidence or information they have. This is why there will be a trial where more will be revealed and possibly catch someone off guard, maybe leading a witness to the point where they trip up on what was a previously well-rehearsed testimony, either implicating themselves or the defendant in a way not previously considered by any of us prior to the trial. We are not privy to some of the behind the scenes info although we get far more info than I think we sometimes should because of our laws regarding transparency. Yesterday’s bombshells appeared, IMO, to more than likely impact the defense’s response to the prosecution’s oral argument regarding a change in status for the defendant’s ability to be released from his home monitoring by the Seminole Co. Sheriff’s Dept. O’Mara was definitely more subdued than I would have expected him to be had it not been for the revelations regarding Serino’s initial thoughts on charging GZ.

        BDLR hit it out of the park with his oral argument. I’m really looking forward to the trial and seeing him take apart GZ’s many inconsistent statements.

        • blushedbrown says:

          You wrote:

          O’Mara was definitely more subdued than I would have expected him to be had it not been for the revelations regarding Serino’s initial thoughts on charging GZ.

          O’mara’s mistake was thinking that he is the only one with a voice.
          Granted, Bernie can not go on interviews and talk to press like O’mara. It beehooves Bernie to be quiet and not talk to the media.

          But there is a place where Bernie can talk to his hearts content, and that is at court. That’s where O’mara made a very bad mistake.

          Bernie CAN and will prolly keep doing that from now on is speak up in court. That he CAN do. Not only can he clarfiy things and get it on record, but be passionate about it and call O’mara on his bullshit.

          And the media can report EVEYTHING Bernie said, without Bernie going on TV like O’mara. :smiles:

        • me too! i can’t wait to see what we can’t see! but the little we just learned is very encouraging! it’s sure is worrying Omar and GZ enough to incite thier desperate grasps at the straws ( even if those straws aren’t even real!) LOL

          But i still think we should give the prosecution our collective trust and not assume they are purposely sabotaging this case for some conspiracy against the dead boy or some political purpose. I think that’s just insane really.. some times it really is exactly what it is! some people are too paranoid ya know!!

          • blushedbrown says:

            I posted a very long comment on the Bond hearing Post you put up, forgive me, I got carried away. Feel free to correct any typos. 🙂

          • you can post ANYTHING you want over there!! as a matter of fact i think it’s a great place for ALL of us to go and post ANYTHING we want when we start to lose our tempers!! we can cuss and kick and stomp up and down all we want and it won’t irritate Professor! LOL right 🙂

          • blushedbrown says:

            Oh My Shannon,
            Imagine that we are talking about something here, get all riled up go over there curse like a sailor and talk some more, go over there cuss some more, your thread will look good and crazy and we will be the only ones to be able to follow it ! HA! Maybe that’s a good idea, none of those crazies will know what the hell we are talking about! They will be even more confused then they are right now!

          • that sounds like music to my ears!! lolol i can’t believe those morons would bother comeing there anyway, but i already have my own stalker!!Lolo

          • blushedbrown says:

            you so crazy! gotta love ya!

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