Prediction: The Zimmerman Civil Suit Will Be Dismissed

Friday, December 7, 2012

In Heck v. Humphrey, 512 U.S. 477, 487 (1994) the SCOTUS said,

We hold that, in order to recover damages for allegedly unconstitutional conviction or imprisonment, or for other harm caused by actions whose unlawfulness would render a conviction or sentence invalid, a § 1983 plaintiff must prove that the conviction or sentence has been reversed on direct appeal, expunged by executive order, declared invalid by a state tribunal authorized to make such determination, or called into question by a federal court’s issuance of a writ of habeas corpus, 28 U. S. C. § 2254. A claim for damages bearing that relationship to a conviction or sentence that has not been so invalidated is not cognizable under § 1983. Thus, when a state prisoner seeks damages in a § 1983 suit, the district court must consider whether a judgment in favor of the plaintiff would necessarily imply the invalidity of his conviction or sentence; if it would, the complaint must be dismissed unless the plaintiff can demonstrate that the conviction or sentence has already been invalidated. But if the district court determines that the plaintiff’s action, even if successful, will not demonstrate the invalidity of any outstanding criminal judgment against the plaintiff, the action should be allowed to proceed, in the absence of some other bar to the suit.

Pursuant to the rule in Heck v. Humphrey, GZ’s lawsuit seeking compensatory and punitive damages for defamation and outrage must be dismissed by the trial court upon motion by the defendant NBC, or any of the three individually named plaintiffs, if a judgment in favor of the plaintiff GZ “would necessarily imply the invalidity of his conviction or sentence” for second degree murder.

Assuming the jury in the criminal case were to find GZ guilty of murder in the second degree, the verdict and sentence imposed would necessarily be called into doubt by a verdict in favor of GZ in the civil case because we can reasonably predict that the defendants in the civil case will be claiming truth as a defense. Therefore, a verdict for the plaintiff would necessarily constitute a rejection of the claim that the allegedly objectionable statements were true. Yet, a verdict of guilty in the criminal case would appear to accept the statements as true.

In addition, assuming a verdict for the plaintiff in the civil case, the amount of damages awarded might reasonably be expected to vary considerably from nominal damages of $1, if GZ is convicted of second degree murder, to potentially millions of dollars, if he is acquitted.

Put another way, there are too many issues common to both lawsuits that should preclude the civil case proceeding before the criminal case is decided.

This would be a dismissal without prejudice which means the civil suit could be refiled after the criminal case has been concluded. Meanwhile, the statute of limitations would be tolled (stop running) until the criminal case was resolved.

There also is a substantial likelihood that the civil matter will not go to trial before the criminal case goes to trial, given the precedence of criminal cases over civil cases in scheduling trial dates and the likely inability of the parties in the criminal case to complete discovery before the criminal case goes to trial. Notwithstanding GZ’s compulsion to keep talking and digging himself ever deeper into a hole, I find it hard to imagine that he will submit to a deposition by the defendants in the civil case. He will take the Fifth and this is a major stumbling block to the civil case going to trial first.

Finally, for the reasons expressed by Piranha Mom in the preceding article, Featuring Piranha Mom and her Devastating Analysis of the Lawsuit Against NBC, I would expect the trial court in the civil case, which will probably be a United States District Court judge without a sense of humor or patience for GZ’s narcissistic and sociopathic claims, will grant pretrial motions to dismiss his civil suit pursuant to Civil Rule 12(b)(6) for failure to state a claim upon which relief can be granted, or for summary judgment pursuant to Civil Rule 59.

Civil Rule 12(b)(6) motions are based on the pleadings before any discovery has taken place. The test is whether the moving party (NBC and the individually named defendants) is entitled to have the lawsuit dismissed because as a matter of law the non-moving party (plaintiff) would not be entitled to a judgment in its favor, even if all of the allegations in the complaint are assumed to be true, including all of the reasonable inferences to be drawn from those statements. I believe Heck v. Humphrey, 512 U.S. 477 (1994), constitutes an insurmountable obstacle to this lawsuit. This would be a dismissal without prejudice (see above).

Civil Rule 59 motions for summary judgment are filed after discovery has been completed. The same legal test is applied to the information obtained during discovery. I believe Heck v. Humphrey, 512 U.S. 477 (1994), the First Amendment and the requirement to prove actual malice to establish defamation constitute an insurmountable obstacle to this lawsuit. This would be a dismissal with prejudice ( the lawsuit could not be refiled).

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118 Responses to Prediction: The Zimmerman Civil Suit Will Be Dismissed

  1. cielo62 says:

    ~~^~~ that, my friends, is GZs ship sinking fast.

  2. sdunn5 says:

    Greeting Professor Leatherman, Thank you for providing us with a place to vent debate and learn. I was leery of the donate button but alas once past the button there was paypal (not peter pan) to aid me through a donate process. I encourage all to donate no matter what amount here. This site Professor Leatherman has provided is one of the last sites I feel safe on. Much Aloha

    • Aloha to you in return and thanks for the donation.

      I absolutely love Hawaii, especially the Big Island!

      Watch out for those thousand-foot tall tsunamis that I read about last night!

      • fauxmccoy says:

        you know how much i appreciate a place that feels safe professor. you also know that as a disabled woman on SSDI that i give what i can, when i can. thank you again, for all that you do.

  3. Rachael says:

    Hahahaha here is one of the funniest yet:

    “Tugboat has got class and stoicism. he comes from a classy background. the thug class that have pursued this have lawyered up. the cowards that they are may they never know a moments peace. justice for tugboat. you have dignitas George.”

    OMG, stoicism? Stoic as in a person who can endure pain or hardship without showing their feelings or complaining? LMBFFAO!!! That effing crybaby stoic? His own lawyer says he reacts to getting punched in the nose by a kid and shoots him and that is stoic? All his public whining and crying – stoic? OMG, stoic my azz!

    And as far as classy well, I won’t even go there because, well It’s God’s plan.

    • Malisha says:

      Rachael, that slayed me.
      Fogen’s got “class” and “stoicism”?

      He’s got Class all right; Class F

      He’s got stoicism? Oh yeah, he tolerated them asking him the same question twice, and once in a “tone of voice.” Gotta hand it to him. But if you listen to all those screams he claims are HIS on the tape, I wouldn’t call it the height of stoicism. And apparently he does that all the time; his father and brother claim that’s the way he screamed when he was a teen-ager! Wow, he’s just a screaming mimi!

    • fauxmccoy says:

      any ‘stoicism’ perceived is a direct result of tranquilizers used in excess.

  4. Malisha says:

    Nice to see you, Whonoze.

    Great work on the picture. That is a mini-nosebleed if anything at all, and I agree with you that there’s a high probability of Fogen “getting good and bloody” for the camera. Still, it’s so minor as to be laughable. A guy who allegedly defended the victim of a three-thug pile-on, a guy who worked private parties as a bouncer, a guy who has been “datniggyTB” for all those years with his bellicose attitude and his guntotin’ swagger, getting all hot and bothered about a catsup-nose like that? I had worse when I had a bad cold for four days and the dry air caused cracks in my nasal passages; one tissue and a 30-second pinch with my head back and it’s over and I never killed anybody. The bigger question is how somebody held one hand over his mouth and another hand over his nose and didn’t get his DNA or blood on THEM from the transaction.

    Anyway…

    These picture of injuries are not relevant. There is no law in Florida that says that you get a free murder if your victim tries to prevent it before the fact, and I’ll bet that there’s no law in Florida or any other state that says you get exonerated from any crime you want to commit so long as you’re injured in the process.

  5. whonoze says:

    I don’t think the photo of GZ’s bloody nose has been ‘Photoshopped’ in the sense people usually mean the term. That is, I highly doubt the bitmap has been edited via the clone tool or some sort of compositing. If so, whoever did it was very good. I believe what people are seeing as exaggeration is just the result of the low quality image created by the cell phone camera. The image has a low effective bit-depth, resulting in banding at luminance transition points rater than smooth gradients. It also has the chroma and contrast boosted way up. This COULD have been altered in Photoshop, or even a far simpler photo editor, but my guess is that’s just what the image sensor in the cell phone produces under the conditions in which the picture was taken.

    I’ve taken the image from the gzlegal site (which is not hi-res, by any means) and done a quick stab at color correcting it for a more ‘natural’ skin tone.

    The blood on the lips still appears more prominent than I guess it would have in real life. I’m thinking this is just a by-product of how the flash hit it. Note the hot spot on the lower lip is even brighter than the one on the bridge of his nose.

    If this image was manipulated, I would guess it was done by GZ in meatspace, not digitally. That is, he manually smeared some of the blood from his nose onto his lips to make himself look worse off than he was – like applying lipstick. The symmetry of the blood on the upper and lower lips suggests to me that he pursed his lips to smear it around.

    • camanokat says:

      Why is no blood coming from his nostrils?

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        The photo has been altered, there can not be any doubt about it.
        The proportions of one feature with another have been altered in a non uniform way. http://tinyurl.com/co9ouag

      • Malisha says:

        The photo was not worth photoshopping. As bad as you could make that crayon-nose come out, that didn’t mean George didn’t follow Trayvon with the full intent of confronting him, didn’t confront him with the full intent of unlawfully restraining him, and didn’t start a fight with an unarmed kid who was trying to run away from him from the beginning. If you showed me a picture of a guy with NO NOSE AT ALL, I would still say the same.

        The “who started it” doesn’t start when the target of the aggression starts to win.

    • (@whonose, but we don’t have the original bitmap/source)

      ehh, i know i’m NOT an expert in anything having to do with photo editing. i mean i can barely get the red out LOLO
      But i for sure CAN make myself skinner in ANY photo using photo shop!!!!LOL

      i took the class 2x because i had to learn it on PC and MAC. and i still remember some of the features (tools, fliters, etc) and some of the amazing things *other* students did with them, and it’s been updated many times since that i haven’t even begun to hear of. And this #NotSoGraphicBooBoo photo could have been touched!!

      when i brought it up in my shitty software it looks like the left side lump is either patched or the whole damn nose was layered on.
      when enlarged, just a simple elementary way to examine it, it’s blurred in an odd oval shape (kinda un natural) as opposed to being jagged and having sharp edges like other parts of higher noise areas in the same pic. there’s even colors unique to that one area.

      I think professionals can find out for sure if the photo was touched. but if they actually messed with his stupid face before the pic was taken, then i guess we’ll never know for sure.

      But i think most of us can figure out there’s something wrong when that Hugh bulbous honker turns into just a regular honker by the time he’s stepping out the police car without so much as a bandaid- what an hour later???

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        The picture has been altered for sure. If the picture had not been altered then the features in the left hand picture, should appear in the right hand picture, to be in the same size in proportion, as they do to the same features in the left photo.

        I’ve circled the “red swath” that runs across the nose bridge from eye to eye, and I’ve enhanced the color and contrast to make the red swath more visible. Examine it in both photos and note how it’s proportions are changed in the photo on the right. Then also note how the bridge of the nose is narrower in the photo on the right, in proportion to the space between the eyes it takes up, in the photo on the left. This is what it means to alter a photo. http://tinyurl.com/co9ouag

        • yeah where are all the “crime scene” pics??? what no one thought to have a tech take pics of the so-called “victim” of such a death beating?? they can’t expect to use this pic in court when they surely have TONS of pics taken by actual crime scene photographer?? they took pics of the trash and the grass and the keys.. why wouldn’t they take some of GZ at the scene?

    • fauxmccoy says:

      @whonoze – what would you think would account for the obvious discrepancies in the shape of gz’s head? in real life, his face is far more rounded and not the thin, elongated version as seen in this photo?

    • Jun says:

      I feel the photo is doctored

      http://dothprotesttoomuch.com/2012/12/03/jeepers-creepers-whered-you-get-those-peepers-george-or-lack-thereof/

      1) All other pictures entered have a chain of custody, and this pic of the bloody nose has a questionable chain of custody

      2) Compare his new pic to the others and the doctor will become obvious. They shrunk the width of his head, and then stretched the height of his head, blurred out his nose and painted it rose, and then moved the ridge of his nose to the right of his face a bit. The blood is coming out from the tip of his nose and is connected as one piece, 2 dimenional, to his mustache, like it was a spiderman web shoot, and the blood is as if str8 up vertical.

      3) His nose looks exactly the same since childhood to all his court hearings, yet this one is out of place. If you download a copy of the photo and pull it up close, you can see the doctor or photoshop.

      Lastly, the defendant instigated the whole confrontation and he gets no SYG, but the victim does, and, the victim has no forensic evidence of having struck the defendant at all.

  6. Cercando Luce says:

    Looking at the legal reference above GZ’s signature to FL statute 92.525, I am delighted to report that GZ’s signature at the end of the document subjects him to perjury scrutiny (please pardon length):

    “92.525 Verification of documents; perjury by false written declaration, penalty.—
    (1) When it is authorized or required by law, by rule of an administrative agency, or by rule or order of court that a document be verified by a person, the verification may be accomplished in the following manner:
    (a) Under oath or affirmation taken or administered before an officer authorized under s. 92.50 to administer oaths; or
    (b) By the signing of the written declaration prescribed in subsection (2).
    (2) A written declaration means the following statement: “Under penalties of perjury, I declare that I have read the foregoing [document] and that the facts stated in it are true,” followed by the signature of the person making the declaration, except when a verification on information or belief is permitted by law, in which case the words “to the best of my knowledge and belief” may be added. The written declaration shall be printed or typed at the end of or immediately below the document being verified and above the signature of the person making the declaration.
    (3) A person who knowingly makes a false declaration under subsection (2) is guilty of the crime of perjury by false written declaration, a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.”

    The sentence for a 3rd degree felony under775.082 is 5 years. Wow! SUrely they haven’t filed this load of whoppers just to tack on another 5 years…

  7. Lonnie Starr says:

    Yeah, right!!! Blacks have such power that it takes an entire nation, to get a killer charged and brought in for judicial review.

    When has it ever occurred that a Black who had killed in self defense was not brought in for judicial review, but release on his word?

    What power are these idiots talking about? The power to simply lay down and die and be forgotten? Well, I have a little news for them: Those days are long past!!!

    • Malisha says:

      That’s what the defense team and Zimmerman’s family are most upset about, Lonnie. It seemed to them an “easy hit” to let Fogen go because Blacks had no power and because they were sure they could find something that would identify Trayvon as a not-worth-fighting-for kind of kid. Big surprise that they judged it wrong. Big surprise that their little “get out of jail free” card got pulled off the Monopoly-on-Justice board and publicly displayed to an outraged diverse white-folks-too public. Big surprise that the press didn’t uniformly present everything their way. Big surprise that the system they thought they controlled wasn’t exactly as they expected it.

      Their temper tantrum against the media and the public is just that: a tantrum. Let them scream themselves out. That’s always the best bet for how to handle a temper tantrum. Watch Nelson; I think she knows how to handle a temper tantrum. She will not get ruffled; she will not get fuffled; she will not use a single sharp word; she will “take it under advisement” and then she will quietly say no to most of it, and possibly yes to a little something along the way, and she will stay on track. Fogen’s jewelry will have to stay on his widdow ankle. But perhaps he can get her to change the color of it, if it doesn’t match his best suit for court. And maybe they’ll take off the little ridges on it so Shellie doesn’t get knots when she washes Fogen’s feet and dries them with her hair.

  8. Lonnie Starr says:

    I guess that in short, since the state has the right to charge, he can’t say that the charges are false, before he can prove them to be false. Which seems to be what he’s trying to do. He’s trying to use a civil action to preclude a determination in a criminal case. Good luck with that!

    • Malisha says:

      Lonnie S, he doesn’t have to prove the charges false but he does have to prevent the state from proving they’re true. I think they can be easily proven true, of course. But there is something called a “dismiss-release” that applies to civil suits brought by defendants during the pendency of a criminal case but brought against the PROSECUTOR or the STATE for unconstitutional and tortious behavior during the arrest, pretrial detainment, and prosecution. The “dismiss-release” is only good if the defendant has sued the prosecutor. In a case like this, such a suit would not work at all. It is very rare that it can work, but in a case where there is a deliberate prosecutorial intent to work with a private citizen to totally create, from whole cloth, a crime to prosecute, it can sometimes work if there is enough publicity.

      A case in Harford County, Maryland is a case in point, but in that one, there is no money for lawyers to take the case against the prosecutor to court, so it probably will not happen. A mother was involved in a custody battle with a guy who really wanted her out of his life. He had friends who had friends and the prosecutor of a nearby county, who did not have jurisdiction, brought the kid in to try to get her to make allegations against her mother for a child protection proceeding. She wouldn’t, and she insisted she wanted to be with her mother more, and she said her father was “spanking” her a lot and ordering her to “hold it in” and “not cry” but she couldn’t “hold it in” so she got spanked harder. (This happened when she wanted to see her mother and her father became enraged.) The prosecutor brought 28 counts of child abuse against the mother and she was arrested and beaten by the police and then thrown in jail for 13 months and beaten in jail and kept in solitary. Another prisoner reported seeing guards contaminate her food. It took a massive public campaign to free her from jail and then they had to drop the charges for lack of evidence. Then when it became obvious that she was going to be totally exonerated, the ex-husb and took the child and fled to Brazil, so the mother has never seen her daughter again. No charges were leveled against the father for doing this. He was under a court order to provide visitation when he fled.

      If the lawsuit against Cassilly (the prosecutor in Harford County) could have been filed (and it may yet be filed, for it has already been written), I will bet Cassilly would fold and stop prosecuting the mother and then there would be some money changing hands. The County of Harford has had to pay off (with taxpayers’ money) other abused defendants before. Even a couple of MURDERED defendants (murdered BY the police IN the jail).

      I’m sure Sanford is no worse than Harford. Just that before this point in time, nobody had really BUSTED Sanford in the national press.

      But a big 1983 against a prosecutor CAN (in circumstances that are very different from those in the Zimmerman case) succeed. Notice that none has been filed by O’Mara and West, who have been very careful about their harsh words toward Corey. She is not the kind of prosecutor they will be able to back down with a frivolous 1983 suit, count on that.

      • Jun says:

        I dont believe that will work in this case as the State has given him all his due process and used proper procedures to arrest and investigate Fogen. They also have probable cause to investigate because like Gilbreath says, they had the body, the smoking gun, the shell casing, and the defendant’s statements. Omara has more than the right to try the case in court and he was even offered a SYG hearing. It is silly to think you can have an evidentiary hearing without listening to all the evidence.

  9. Jeffrey Prater says:

    Mr. Leatherman I have a question about a civil suit. I heard through the media – not being an attorney – that if Zimmerman is acquitted which I don’t believe he will be – prayerfully, does the family still have a right to file a civil suit in the wrongful death of their son? I would appreciate an answer. Thank you so much. – Sincerely yours, Jeffrey Prater, Fort Wayne, Indiana

    • Malisha says:

      They only lose the right to sue if Zimmerman gets off on a SYG, not if he gets acquitted. If he gets off on a SYG then nobody can recover anything ever. THAT will mean that this case will definitely go to the United States Supreme Court, if it happens. Guaranteed. Then perhaps the SYG laws will all be struck down. Wait and see; this might be the test case but I doubt it.

  10. Xena says:

    I’ve been so far behind that I do not know if this has been posted previously. If so, I apologize. O’Mara and West have filed 8 motions, all scheduled for 12/11. Of the 8 motions, they are asking that the State obtain discovery materials from the DOJ and FBI. Didn’t Judge Nelson already rule on that? Yes, she did.

    GZ also wants Attorney Crump to deliver his recording device and original recording of his interview with DeeDee to FDLE. Didn’t Attorney Crump say that he gave the recording to FDLE already? Yes, he did.

    In his motions to alter and clarify conditions of bond, GZ, through his attorneys, argues that he is innocent and immune from prosecution — it’s the media’s fault, and fault of the public, that he was arrested. On that basis, he should be allowed to travel freely in the State of Florida without a GPS and should also have contact with State witnesses.

    He claims that there has been a surge of internet comments threatening his safety so he should be allowed to leave Seminole County. Isn’t the internet worldwide and not limited to Seminole County? Yes, it is.

    • Jun says:

      I dont get his motions

      He quotes the statute and it even says on the Florida 776 that the state has the right to arrest on probable cause

      He says the evidence needs to be reviewed

      Um, isnt that what trial and a SYG hearing is for?

      He was offered the SYG hearing and he has not taken the offer and he has been given more then the right to prove his case in court and he has not even been offered any sort of immunity at all yet

      That is why I wrote earlier that I believe Omara does not want to go to trial and he is going to try and use hearsay to try and not have a trial but unfortunately for him it has been set already and there is probable cause

      I also feel he is plotting to get Nelson off as a judge because he seems to be trying the exact same modus operandi as with he did with Lester

      • Malisha says:

        I believe the purpose of these motions is to get them denied. Then they will move to recuse Debra Nelson. That will not work and then, after the conviction, they can use that as the basis for appeal after appeal. They’re losing so they’re setting the case up for appeal. That’s all. But since Nelson gave them what they asked for last time around, very liberally, they couldn’t begin to chip away at her until she began to deny stuff, so they had to move for stuff that could NOT be granted.

        They want a SYG without a SYG hearing. They want a dismissal without an evidentiary hearing at all. But folks, here’s the good thing:

        This blizzard of motions proves absolutely that they didn’t get a damn thing that would help them when they got all the stuff on Trayvon! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!

      • Xena says:

        IMO, O’Mara is attempting to circumvent Judge Lester’s opinion on the bond order. When he filed appeal, it was on the basis of perceived bias stated in the order and the remedy was to have Judge Lester recused — not overturn what Lester ordered. So now he comes forth with motions to alter the bond order and criticizes Judge Lester as though saying the order itself is unfair and prejudicial.

        Judge Lester granted GZ the right to leave Seminole County to go to his attorney’s office. He said that if O’Mara coordinated with monitors about the GPS device, that he could bring forth another motion for GZ to leave Seminole County. O’Mara is overreaching on his current motions and other than asking for another bond amount, wants to render the court’s bond order moot.

        Coupled in that is lots of mumbo-jumbo about GZ’s innocence and using a witness statement that the witness changed when interviewed by the State and FDLE.

        Nothing, absolutely nothing has changed in GZ’s life justifying an alteration of the bond order. He’s been crying the same thing since the first bond hearing.

        Hopefully, Judge Nelson will regard the current motions to alter conditions of bond as a slick way of appealing Lester’s order that is tolled from reconsideration and also tolled from being appealed to a higher court.

      • Jun says:

        LMAO

        Malisha, I dont think facebook or twitter complied with Omara’s orders or perhaps Trayvon never had an account

        but anyways, there was nothing, just as I suspected

        I still hope someone opens the door on the defendant’s character history though LMAO

      • Jun says:

        That is what I am getting. After observing Omara, he is attempting the exact same thing he did with Lester. If you look at his modify bail conditions motion, it looks like a cookie cutter version of his other motions. In fact, it is the same one he sent to the appellate court to recuse Lester. Omara quotes the retracted statement, says mumbo jumbo about dumbo, and then asks for special conditions. I believe he is trying to circumvent. Nelson should see through this and me thinks she will do the same as before and state that it has been ruled on already, and he can review the evidence at the trial or SYG in front of a judge and jury and present his case.

    • Jun says:

      His motion is full of lies

      He claims witness 6 is “THE ONLY WITNESS” to the events and that is a huge lie and Omara based it on a retracted statement that is not even supported by forensic evidence

      Zimmernuts also violated bond conditions by providing false information to the court as any application must be truthful and Zimmernuts took the opportunity to scheme and manipulate the court

      Zimmernuts never complied with law enforcement, as, he simply tried to manipulate law enforcement, and he was even asked to not stalk a boy and he never complied with orders, but that can be settled at the SYG or trial hearing when all the evidence comes out

      The only reason there was any negative publicity is because Zimmernuts killed a kid after stalking him and disparaging the same kid beforehand and that is worldwide news and his self defense claim is very ludicrous

      As for complying with the original first bond conditions, the bondsman stated he only saw Zimmernuts twice in that whole period before the revoke, so there is no way to see if he followed every bond condition

      As for the belief, it is not a belief, it is actual fact, that Zimmernuts schemed and manipulated the court with his finances and his passport, hence him getting those conditions and the evidence has already been gone over, and ruled on, and the time has passed on arguing Lester’s rulings

      As for not violating, he was asked not to make any direct or indirect contact with the victim’s family, and that is exactly what he did, and he continues to do so, by slandering the victim and that can all be covered at trial and any SYG hearing Omara wants

      Zimmernuts has no security problems and has been able to see his lawyers with no problems and Omara should have to produce evidence and have it authenticated if he wants to make any claims of threats due to the fact he has lied numerous times, on one motion alone

      Omara then goes on to selectively present the whole picture, with a retracted statement, and present a false narrative, and he has been told many times, he can prove his story in a trial or any SYG hearing

      I’m really sick of this guy trying the case in all of his motions with false information

      • Rachael says:

        Exactly!! Manipulating law enforcement is NOT the same as complying with them!

      • Malisha says:

        Judge Lester’s ruling was not disturbed. Nothing he put in his order was rescinded; nothing he said in his order was contradicted; Nelson has stated in open court that Lester’s rulings stand; O’Mara never even moved to change them within the given time period. This is drama, not law.

      • Xena says:

        As for not violating, he was asked not to make any direct or indirect contact with the victim’s family, and that is exactly what he did, …

        GZ deliberately violated that term of his bond on Hannity’s program, with his attorney sitting next to him. I would think that the State would have brought that up before the court but maybe they were waiting on the timing to be right — such as now.

      • Jun says:

        I think the state will prepare arguments for all of this but they will likely just state at the beginning that it has been ruled on and the time has passed on arguing any of Lester’s rulings, so they stand. I think they will also argue that it has been gone over already. That is Nelson’s schtick to do things fast and orderly so she will likely agree.

  11. Xena says:

    I’m not the only one who is up late working. LLMPapa is working too! LLMPapa, bless your heart.

  12. Jun says:

    Do you ever feel that Zimmernuts plotted the NW program by setting up robberies, so that he could feel important and he was needed?

    I noticed that he just showed up on this person’s door after getting robbed and said he was NW.

  13. Rachael says:

    Okay, you guys are going to hate me, but as an editor or sorts, I do feel this was a very bad edit. However:

    1. Does it make GZ look more racist (than he already looks)? Again, it is a really bad edit, but the effin *oons pretty much says it all.

    2. Has GZ suffered any damage as a result of it? I doubt it – he has done much more damage to himself by going on TV and saying it is God’s plan, and then there are his begging sites. Perhaps if he gets convicted he could try saying he was damaged because of it, but again, it would really be hard to say because again, it isn’t like he didn’t do enough of his own damage publicly so there would be no way to know how much of it would or could be attributed by NBC, other news outlets or himself.

    3. Was it done purposely with intent and malice? Hard to say. Would need to know the circumstances surrounding it. Sometimes edits need to be done immediately for going on air and it could have just been unfortunate. Were their ratings really down at the time? Would it really have made any difference in their ratings had they not edited it that way? In other words, what purpose would it really serve for them to make an edit like that on purpose? This would be really difficult to know.

    I know you will disagree with me, but I do think he has a case in so far as they did do that edit and it was a really really bad edit. Will he win it though? Just because it was a very bad edit doesn’t mean it makes him look more racist (than he already looks), I don’t see any way to determine what damages (if any) he suffered as a direct result (even if he gets convicted), and it will be very difficult to prove it was done maliciously.

    Just my opinion. I know you may not agree with me or like what I say, but I have to be honest.

    • blushedbrown says:

      Thank you for the honesty. My thoughts are this, all lawyers in that field, will always tell their client they have a case. Edits are done all the time. Did he suffer more because of the edit, depends on who’s doing the judging. This is not NBC first rodeo. They will handle it. It won’t be news, come the new year.

    • Jun says:

      That is the main gyst that will be a hard mountain to climb because it is actually his own statements that make him look bad, and the statements were intact, and the edit to make it fit the air time, and his statements unaltered, did not make him appear racist

      I think he comes off racist because he targeted a black kid and killed him, beforehand yelling disparaging remarks and a racial epithet

      he also says “he’s coming to check me out, he’s got something in his waist band…. and he’s a black male…”

      before that he said he was suspicious and up to no good and that one statement kind of confirms his racial profiling because he emphasized the importance that a black male had something in his waist band

      • Looolooo says:

        BINGO!!! ……and he’s a “black male”.

      • He attempted to describe Trayvon as a suspicious character, but could not even succeed at that.

        Serino, who is a cop, knows what does and does not constitute a “reasonable suspicion,” which is required to justify a cop stopping a person to investigate a crime. He told him he did not have a reason to follow and stop Trayvon.

        That is why the defendant has been so desperate to deny that he followed Trayvon.

    • Whether I agree or disagree is irrelevant. Your opinion is legitimate and appropriate.

      I actually think the lawsuit would survive a Rule 12(b)(6) motion to dismiss for the reason you have stated, and some others, but for Heck v. Humphrey, which will require the trial court to dismiss the lawsuit without prejudice pending the final outcome of the criminal case.

      I do not believe GZ will submit to a deposition, until after his criminal case has been resolved, and that could take years with appeals and habeas petitions, assuming he is convicted.

      I say that because he would retain his 5th Amendment right to remain silent, despite conviction, so long as he appeals the conviction. I believe he would assert the 5th, if NBC attempted to depose him.

      I do not see any legitimate purpose for filing this lawsuit at the present time, unless they were concerned about the statute of limitations expiring and filed the lawsuit to prevent it. That would suggest that they are unaware of Heck v, Humphrey, or uncertain about its application. It is, after all, specifically concerned with civil suits against the police for violating civil rights under 28 USC 1983. Nevertheless, I think the purpose of the rule applies to this lawsuit too because the civil suit really cannot go forward until GZ is acquitted or convicted. Too many common issues and no way to figure damages without resolving the criminal case first.

      I think they filed it for propaganda purposes only.

      • jm says:

        Professor: “I say that because he would retain his 5th Amendment right to remain silent, despite conviction, so long as he appeals the conviction. I believe he would assert the 5th, if NBC attempted to depose him.”

        So can he ever win the lawsuit in which he asserts the 5th?

        Professor do you think this lawsuit is part of a huge effort to gain sympathy for Chorge and change public opinion for some reason other than just to raise cash?

      • Malisha says:

        I agree, the purpose being to make sure ALL MEDIA SOURCES report things they want reported, and ALL MEDIA SOURCES avoid saying anything negative about Fogen.

        News folks: Frances Robles of the Miami Herald, who reported WRONGLY and MISLEADINGLY that there had been “eight burglaries, nine thefts and one other shooting” in RTL during the year before Trayvon Martin was killed, not only refuses to correct that once I sent her the real information, but she refuses to speak with me about it and refuses to deal with my insistence that it is a significant issue. She has told me that she is soon leaving the Miami Herald and her kiss off e-mail to me was as polite and dismissive as the General (Jones) at the Pentagon who (in about 1992) politely thanked me for bringing to his attention the fact that a colonel in the marksmanship unit at Fort Benning, George had been identified by the Army CID for raping children.

        Don’t fret; I’m shopping this information around for a journalist who may take an interest. It will hit somewhere. Especially in light of the fact that “The media reporting in a slanted way about the case” is now a hot topic. Anybody who knows a good investigative journalist, post a “heads up” here (meaning on the most recent thread Professor Leatherman puts up) — thanks.

        💡

      • Jun says:

        Wouldn’t there be no lawsuit if Fogenhats refuses to be deposed? He made claims, which means, no one else can present what he claims, as those are strictly his claims, and he signed off on them, otherwise the lawsuit would be based on hearsay and that is not allowed in a court of law, even civilly. When I sued a company before, I had to take the stand and swear an oath and then present my claims.

  14. tharealkeisha says:

    I have a question. A lot of political ads are edited/omitted to make it appear certain candidate said something they actually haven’t. Can this open the door for a lawsuit if the candidate lose?

  15. Malisha says:

    Trayvon Martin could not have seen Fogen’s gun. Even Fogen basically admitted that in the “re-enactment” when he said, “I feel like he saw it…” FEEL? OK, you’re sitting on top of a guy beating his head and face and saying “shut the f*ck up” and you’re pressing one hand on his mouth and another hand on his nose and pressing as hard as you can to smother him (yeah, that’ll work, yeah, do it that way, experienced cracker-killer-thug). And he wriggles. While you’re killing him. He wriggles, as you scream “shut the f*ck up” at him. And the wriggling makes his jacket “slide up” and so you take your attention away from his head and face where you’re valiantly, viciously, vigorously trying to kill him, and you look down because his jacket rode up as he wriggled.

    Yeah. You look at his jacket instead of his face as you’re killing him. WHY? Why do you look down at where his jacket rode up?

    Because if his JACKET rides up he is messy. He doesn’t look well-dressed, pressed, ready for his public. You don’t want the police to arrive (remember, the neighbor offered to call 911 so you know they’re on their way) and see that you killed a sloppy slovenly ghetto-looking homie, do you? You look down at his sliding-up jacket right in the middle of the fatal beat-down.

    Sure. Right. Oh yeah. That’s it.

    “You can’t FIX stupid.”

    • Patricia says:

      Too funny malisha remember the bond hearing Lester let gz appear in a suit so he could wear his bullet proof vest. He would look silly in a jail jumpsuit with a BPV. Wanted to look like a well dressed killer Victim

    • Jun says:

      I always get Zidiots who want to argue with me regarding the fact that Trayvon could not have known about Fogenhats gun. Fogenhat pulled it out, threatened with it, and killed with it. I would think Trayvon would know about the gun eventually, why else would he scream. This leads to them claiming there is no way to finalize the screaming because of the FBI. The FBI report says the report is privileged and they cant release it to the public because of juvenile information.

  16. Mary Davis says:

    @ Everyone. Talking about frivolous lawsuits, We should sue Cheorge for damages. Not bodily harm or physical harm, but mental damage. I am not Treyvon’s mother, but I can certantly feel her pain, and everytime Cheorge opens his foul mouth the pain goes deeper. Look at the jzleagal defense fund. This is a crying shame. The pain just goes deeper. All the lies about Treyvon and even trying to steal Treyvon’s last screams. The pain goes deeper. Now this frivolous law suit against NBC to poison potential jurors. I say this because I really don’t think his lawyers could be that dumb as to believe he will get any money out of this law suit.
    The pain just keep getting deeper. In any event, I do not want blood money. Perhaps after he is found guilty. How would the Znuts in the treehouse like that.

    • Rachael says:

      I don’t give a flying F what the znuts in the outhouse think, but I like your idea. It does hurt more and deeper every time he opens his mouth and the pain I feel for the Martin family is real. I can only imagine how I’d feel spending this Christmas without my son. And every time he opens his mouth, I hug my son, which is good for my son but does nothing for the empty arms of the Martin family. I would hug them too if I could, but that would not bring Trayvon back. Yes, I wish we could sue GZ for the pain he has inflicted on us all abd continues to inflict daily, each time he opens his nasty mouth.

  17. Donna Flores says:

    I noticed that in the latest color picture released (George in the squad car) , his jacket is zipped. The police video shows it’s unzipped. How does the jacket become unzipped? Was he taken out of the handcuffs and is that standard procedure. It was zipped when he was first handcuffed.

    • blushedbrown says:

      @Donna
      That picture was taken @7:25. Emt’s report says they started intial care @7:40. They did check to see if he had injuires to his torso and lifted his shirt. This is what the EMT in the second bond hearing said. Its safe to assume that they unzipped the jacket to look him over. Since he was handcuffed he couldn’t zip it back. I don’t think the Emt’s or cops bothered to zip it back up, they had him in the car and it just stayed that why on his way back to the cop shop. Nothing nefarious imo.

      • blushedbrown says:

        typo that *way*

      • Donna Flores says:

        Then when the altercation started his jacket was zipped correct? So can Trayvon see the gun with a zipped jacket?

        • blushedbrown says:

          Whether or not his jacket was zipped concealed weapons owners must keep it concealed. GZ had an inside Uncle Mike’s holster. If you look at the reenactment video you will always see him reach behind him where he kept his gun. Back rightside hip area, IIRC. UnlessTrayvon has x-ray vision, no he could of not seen the gun.

  18. jimmyxxx says:

    Btw it seems to me that Fogen thinks he can sue NBC for simply reporting correctly that he is racist. It’s got nothing to do with the edit being unnecessary or the words that were actually said. It’s typical right-wing shoot-the-messenger b.s.

  19. jimmyxxx says:

    Hey, folks.

    Just read a dailykos post regarding Fogen’s selective editing of the NEN transcript. The poster mentions that Fogen says, “Keep an eye on my truck,” at about 3 minutes in. To whom?

    Now, dailykos is probably my least favorite left-wing site out there, but I thought I’d mention it here to see if anyone else has heard this.

    Here’s the post: http://m.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/07/1167991/–Zimmerman-Edits-out-F-cking-Coon-from-911-Tape-He-gave-the-Court-in-lawsuit-against-NBC

    • blushedbrown says:

      Yes, I read that. That was interesting that he heard “Keep an eye on my truck,” at about 3 minutes in. To whom? We’ve discussed this awhile back here on the blog, and the consenus was “the keys are in my truck”. I’ll have to go back and listen for myself, when I get a chance.

    • PYorck says:

      I when I saw that I wondered if there was something problematic about those words and he did not want to commit to any specific wording under penalty of perjury. It is hardly surprising that people noticed immediately but this leaves him more room to deny whatever he said.

    • Jun says:

      He’s an idiot. Doesnt he know that tape is publicly available for anyone to disseminate? A simple phone call to Corey and the real copy is sent over. He actually thinks that will hide his intentions?

      • jm says:

        Jun: “He’s an idiot. Doesnt he know that tape is publicly available for anyone to disseminate?”

        I don’t think Chorge did that do you? Wouldn’t the law firm have made that decision? (Not that I don’t think Chorge is an idiot but it seems he surrounds with idiots as well.)

      • Jun says:

        It could be Omara or Beasley but more likely Omara because Beasley is worth too much money to go after it like that with such an obvious lie

        I believe that it is false presentation if Omara tries to go through with it but he would get caught easily so I dont get it

  20. Jun says:

    LMAo have yall read Zimmernuts Fogenhats’ website?

    He says he wasnt shooting to kill

    I guess he was correct there

    he was shooting then asphyxiating to kill after stalking a kid

  21. Jun says:

    Couldnt they dismiss the case because the plaintiff and his lawyer are out they blood clot minds?

    Zimmernuts Fogenhats targets a black kid as being suspicious and worthy of being authoritized by him, gets stalked, threatened and murdered

    and both him and his attorney believe the editing of a tape affected the public perception of him?

    • camanokat says:

      Can somebody tell me what a Fogen or Fogenhat is? Google sent me to people with that last name only. Thanks.

      • Malisha says:

        Sorry, camanokat, it was on another thread. I coined the word for George Zimmerman to mean: “Forget his name.” I shortened it to FO-r-GE-t his Name” because the excellent suggestion had been made that when we give all the attention to the killer in one of these cases, that is itself giving him fame that he may have actually wanted. So some people started to call Zimmerman “FOGEN” for “forget his name.” I had also pointed out that in the Hebrew scriptures, the worst curse you can level at someone is that their name is forgotten. People say “Hitler, may his name be forgotten” and then they go on with the sentence. So I put my two cents’ worth in about the idea of “forgetting the name” of a wrongdoer and some folks adopted that name for Zimmerman.

      • Jun says:

        Its my comical name of the killer

        he deserves our mocking

        and in a perfect world, he’d be behind bars and not even get a bond

  22. Malisha says:

    I think he will have to prove that, but for the comments made by NBC, everyone in the country would think him a fine righteous guy.

    That is a legal principle called:

    OH Bwaaahahahahahaha, OUCH OUCH it hurts when I laugh, OHNO damn you I fell on the floor laughing and my ass is throbbing like a high school drumer in the marching band after a football game, Ooooooowwwwww oooooowwwww HAHAHAHAHA ouch, damn, choke choke snort, snortibble, owww! STOPPIT STOPPIT urggggle, chet chet! [temporarily unconscious]

    Ugh? Huh? Where am I? How did I get this big bruise?

    Oh I know, someone jumped me and said “You’re gonna die tonight homie” — oh no here it comes again!!!!!! 😛 😛 😛

    • Jun says:

      LMAO

      Its the Jack Nicholson principle at work

      Fogenhats cant handle the truth

      He described the person he was stalking as suspicious, he was black, up to no good, hands in the waist bands and he’s a black male, he came to check him out, he was staring, he was walking about, he doesn’t know what his deal is, he’s an asshole who always gets away and other stuff while continually stalking then murdering a kid

      Which is exactly what NBC reported LMAO and its the truth LMAO

      I think most people’s complaints were that they simply wanted to hear the full version unredacted, rather than the editing making them jump in anger LMAO

      Its as ludicrous as his claim that he wanted Shellzor to withdraw in amounts less than $10 out of Peter Pan LMAO

      • sdunn5 says:

        funnier is the fact that fogen was lounging on his cot making phone calls all day long as if prison is so accommodating. After his 1st call the prosecutors office said give him all the rope he needs. Fogen still doesn’t get it…priceless indeed!!

      • Jun says:

        He’s not all there LMAO

    • Two sides to a story says:

      You’re a real rip, Malisha!

  23. Tee says:

    Ok, professor trying to follow anything none medical gives me a headache. But this is what I thought myself about the suit, I don’t know if I am right but it’s seems to be inline with some of what you are stating. How could he bring a suit if everything he say can be used against him? Wouldn’t he have to be deposed which would required him to answer question relating to the Martin case, which he can’t do. I hope that I’m some where in the ballpark.

    • Jun says:

      My understanding is that they have to dismiss the civil case because of its affect on the criminal case, therefore it be dismissed. That is how I am defining my conclusion of what I read.

      • racerrodig says:

        I believe that is correct. Trayvon’s parents won’t file a wrongful death suit until after he is convicted as the civil case is then a slam dunk. If he is acquitted, they will file after the trial like Goldman vs Simpson. They would still win just like Goldman.

      • sdunn5 says:

        Goldman vs. Simpson was filed because Simpson was acquitted of the murder of the Goldman’s son. I do not see this happening as the Martin’s are going to see this scumball go to prison. They want justice not money.

      • Jun says:

        You know those commercials where it says priceless?

        Withdrawals from Zimmernuts Fogenhats Peter pan =

        Less than $10

        Zimmernuts Fogenhats the 3rd in prison for murder =

        Priceless

        LMAO

    • You are not only in the ballpark; you are right.

  24. KS says:

    Hi Prof and Crane! Hope all is well.

  25. Tee says:

    A small part of me want him to win just so that Trayvons’ parents have money to collect from him after they sue his sick behind in their own civil suit against him. Now that would be victory.

    • Jun says:

      Its more important that Zimmernuts be shown the truth in court of law and face prison than any monetary amount

      • sdunn5 says:

        Agreed how is murdering your child become ok as long as the murderer paid up and did not go to prison. Wow the very thought of this makes me sad and horrified all at once!

      • Tee says:

        Prison is where he is headed but I would also like to know that if he prosper from this awful crime, and there are many who do, that he doesn’t get to enjoy any of the money. I would like to know that it would go right where it belong , with The Martin family. Why should he be allowed have a great life after his release from prison, don’t forget Zimmerman is a young man. Any dime he gets after this is over should go to the Martin family for all that they have lost & suffered,

      • Tzar says:

        ITA
        Justice needs to reign here

    • sdunn5 says:

      Hi Tee I wouldn’t worry about there being any money. They went through that initial Hannity blast of cash in no time. They have never seen a bill over $20.00! The desperate attempts that have been made since the “Hannity” interview shows no further financial support is coming in. I believe it will continue.

  26. Jun says:

    LMAO

    Okay so basically you are saying it was all fluff from Omara and Zimmernuts Fogenhats the 3rd LMAO

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