The Attorney-Client Work Product Rule and the Trayvon Martin Murder Case

Lonnie Starr said in response to shannoninmiami this morning at 8:22 am in the comment thread to Tempest in a Teapot:

“In any event, anything that amounts to the work product of the attorneys is not discoverable. Which is why we can’t really know where this case is. We have a lot of the raw materials, but we can’t know how they are treating it, because much of what they’re working on, is held in related materials or work product of other actors they’ve enlisted. So their work lines are off our scopes.”

As he so often is, Lonnie is correct.

The attorney-client work product privilege generally protects from disclosure an attorney’s notes, musings, research, drafts, communications with experts, and strategizing about a case. Therefore, we will never know for certain all of the identities of the investigators and experts with whom the defense and prosecution lawyers consulted, what they discussed, and the conclusions they reached. Their identities, discussions and any notes memorializing those discussions are protected by the attorney-client work product privilege and not discoverable.

The big exception, of course, is all of the materials in the discovery that have been provided by the State to the defense pursuant to the criminal rules of discovery and released to the public pursuant to Florida’s Sunshine Law with civilian witness identities and contact information redacted. Regrettably, phone records and subscriber information also has been withheld from the public for privacy reasons thereby preventing us from identifying who called the defendant and whom he called before and after he killed Trayvon Martin.

Note that the discovery materials only reveal the evidence the State has in its custody, possession and control. The materials do not include the prosecution’s theory of the case or strategy for presenting the evidence at trial. That information is not in the discovery because it is exempted from disclosure by the attorney’s work product privilege. In this instance, I am referring to the prosecutor’s work product privilege and it extends to protect the same information from disclosure that is in the possession, custody and control of its agents; namely, investigators and experts.

When a lawyer decides to call an expert to testify at the trial, the expert’s report and the basis for his or her opinion are discoverable. This usually consists of benchnotes and possibly a machine printout depending on the nature of the analysis conducted, if the expert is a laboratory analyst. If psychological testing is involved, the tests and scores are discoverable. The lawyer’s and the expert’s theory regarding how the expert’s opinion fits into the overall theory and strategy of the case remains protected and is not discoverable.

There are two important exceptions to the work product rule.

(1) If a prosecution expert has performed a test and obtained an exculpatory result, the prosecution must disclose the result and the expert’s identity to the defense. This rule is based on the Due Process Clause of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments and Brady v. Maryland, 373 US 83 (1963), that require the prosecution to disclose all exculpatory evidence within its custody, possession or control because the defense generally lacks the resources and ability to compete with the prosecution and discover the evidence on its own. For example, the defense does not have its own police department and a crime lab available to independently investigate and test evidence.

(2) If the defendant is asserting an insanity or diminished capacity defense, defense counsel must disclose any unfavorable opinion held by an expert employed by the defense and the expert’s identity to the prosecution. This is a fundamental fairness rule to prevent the defense from concealing inculpatory evidence regarding a mental health defense in which the only evidence available, so to speak, is locked inside the defendant’s head.

We can make reasonably accurate guesses regarding the concerns and strategies of counsel for the defense and prosecution and I suspect we have thought of some possibilities that have not occurred to them. However, we will have to wait until trial when the box is unwrapped, opened, and we finally get to see what is inside.

For more information on the work product rule, please go here.

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100 Responses to The Attorney-Client Work Product Rule and the Trayvon Martin Murder Case

  1. Malisha says:

    When ABC News first broadcast the bloody back-of-the-head photo, O’Mara didn’t want to talk about it. NOW he wants to talk about George’s NOSE. Hmmmmm…

  2. Two sides to a story says:

    My, my, my. This story just keeps on giving.

  3. Erica says:

    Also GZ in this new photo appears to have scratches on his face. Since Trayvon’s hands or fingernails had no trace of GZ, I have to believe he ran into the tree. If Trayvon put those scratches on him, GZ’s dna should have been found on TM;s fingernails. His hands were under his body, so no, the rain didnt wash the evidence away. This coward needs to go to jail and stay

  4. Erica says:

    In my opinion, another big piece of evidence aganist GZ is the lack of blood on Trayvon’s hand. We clearly see blood on his nose and if he was smothered, blood should be on Trayvons, hands. Plus consider, his hands were under his body meaning, the rain didnt destroy it and at the very least, it should be blood on his lower shirt or his pants, wherever his hands were but they cant say the rain washed it away.

  5. Malisha says:

    Wait a minute — Professor, did O’Mara put up those pictures himself? Oh My how strange! He must really be expecting not to go to trial.

  6. ladystclaire says:

    I just saw on HLN, where Zimmerman’s MORON of an attorney is saying the picture of the murderer with his knuckle bandage on his nose, just might be evidence that Trayvon attacked him. any fool can see that, that photo is doctored! the court should require a x-ray or an MRI as proof he had (NOT) a broken nose.

    • that pic IS NOT proof of a broken nose or proof Trayvon attacked the punk! it’s a fake and i swear i can’t wait till a professional analyses it publicly!
      i hate they are allowed to sit up there and say anything they want!! makes me sick!

      • ladystclaire says:

        @ShannonInMiami, this latest incident of O’money pulling all kinds of tricks, to free this sucker just makes me sick to no end. I believe his attorney knows deep down that his client is guilty of what should be, FIRST DEGREE MURDER! what Zimmerman did was not called for and, both he, his media whore attorney and his family all know that this POS IS GUILTY AS HELL. I saw something on the news this evening, where a black man was sentenced to life for killing his two year old daughter last year. my point is this, he sure didn’t get a chance to keep prolonging his punishment like this coward with a gun is doing. I pray that both he and Dunn get what they have both got coming to them. Florida needs to be boycotted. my son is a truck driver for United Van Lines and, I have told him, that I do not want him taking anymore moves to that state. that is my heart and, seeing that it seems to be open season on black males in that state, I would rather he just not go there anymore.

        • cielo62 says:

          I believe MOM is just making the Treehouse folks happy. I imagine he thinks this will bring in more donations by doing what they want.

          Sent from my iPod

        • i know, but we have no choice but to protect our kids in whatever ways we can. and i’m not so sure ol Ed didn’t have the right idea. it might be necessary for parents to start packing!

          i saw the guy today, and i saw what happened when he was first charged. he went on Nancy Grace with those preposterous lies. he did get what he deserved. but as you see there’s no fan fair, no media coverage, no nothin! just another black guy killed his own kid, so we shouldn’t bother looking into it! the problem is it’s pretty rare for a black guy! this is typically white guy stuff. white guys are the typical family killer!

          well, as we all can see, psycho murderers come in ALL flavors!!

      • Malisha says:

        I remember when Turley FIRST put up the picture of the back of Cheorge’s head with the catsup trails. He said it was “evidence of serious injury” which, of course, was ridiculous. And this little bloody nose is not evidence of anything either; it could be from the sniffles for all we know, especially considering Cheorge Ssszimmerman at the Kalub House exiting his schtruck — sounds kinda stuffed up to me. But none of this is evidence of self-defense. Except possibly evidence of Trayvon Martin’s attempt at self-defense that, as we know, was to no avail.

        I’m getting good and sick and tired of the “Poor Cheorge” crap. You killed somebody, you low-grade undignified self-centered lying piece of crap! You still want us to run around boo hooing for your knock on the noggin and sniffy wiffy nose? Shove a tampon in there and shut the Hell UP!

    • Malisha says:

      I don’t think the prosecution needs proof that George’s nose was not broken. First of all, his story of how things happened is not credible. Second of all, even if Trayvon Martin had broken his nose that would have been Trayvon’s attempt at self-defense, since Trayvon (NOT GEORGE) had a reasonable fear of great bodily harm or death, as witness the fact that he actually sustained great bodily harm AND death. None of George’s whining about his injuries is a problem for the prosecution. Nobody has to prove that Trayvon did not strike first. The course of events is proven by physical evidence and it went this way:

      Aggressor marks his victim (NEN call)
      Victim flees (NEN call)
      Aggressor pursues his victim (NEN call)
      Aggressor kills victim (physical evidence)

      In between, if the victim gave his killer a couple of good pops in the nose or klonks on the head, so be it. We don’t have any room for doubt about who the aggressor was because he announced himself and had the arrogance to expect that since he called his victim “the suspect” it would all come out all right.

      • Malisha, “We don’t have any room for doubt about who the aggressor was because he announced himself and had the arrogance to expect that since he called his victim “the suspect” it would all come out all right”.

        OMG you are so right! GZ thought it was all gonna be cool, he knows what he’s doin’
        just look at him strolling thru the police station the next day. it was like a field day for him. it was ALL about GZ and his confidence that night with smith and then serino during the *soft interviews* …. just fill us in GZ, tell us what the “suspect” did again???

  7. Zimbermanisguilty says:

    did the emts clean george up once or twice? why did this cop hold on to this picture until 3/21? why doesnt he have blood on his clothes? was George’s jacket zipped or unzipped during the altercation? is he slid down while trayvon was on top, his shirt shoud not be neatly tucked in,

  8. colin black says:

    Actually it shows quite clearly some surface swelling on the right side, exactly where the scratch is that might be a burn, the one probably caused by the bullet casing. That wouldn’t take long to go down, being entirely superficial.

    Reply ..As a welder I know hot metal can inflict burns with even a fleeting contact.An ejected shell caseing is hot enough to burn skin.Slight contact cause slight blisstering that can apear like scar tissue..

    • groans says:

      So… what are you saying? Does it look like a metal burn to you? Like blistering?

      If you zoom in, there’s a small whitish area at the center and what looks like “bullseye” circles around the white.

    • groans says:

      It did embed. But could you please explain what makes you feel so certain the lump was added?

      When I zoom in, I see a small white “tip” on the lump and some concentric red cirles around the white “tip”. So it looks odd. (But maybe it’s just an odd-looking lump?)

      What are you seeing that makes it looks like photoshopping (or whatever the right word would be)?


      • no, i mean embed so the photo will show here and you don’t have to click on a link/

        yeah when you enlarge a pic in a photo editing software you’ll be able to see each pixel if you enlarge enough. in this pic even in an inferior software you can see the**blur** of the *lump*, it’s not the same as the rest of the pic. it’s been altered for sure. i took photo shop for multimedia ( twice ) 10 years ago and forgot most of it, but a basic tool is an crayon type thing. and you can make it copy an exact color or area of a photo and use it to “color over” elsewhere in the same pic. that’s whats done here. it’s not hard to see if you can blow it up enough, especially if you’re looking for it.

        • Yep.

          The proverbial you-know-what is going to be hitting the fan as the nation figures out that photo was photoshopped and puts 2+2 together to figure out what that means.

          Game — Set — Match for the prosecution and ignominy for O’Mara for putting it on the internet thinking it would win his case.

          Could be a career ender for O’Mara.

          Meanwhile, who photoshopped it? Was it the cop who took the photo?

          Did he do it on his own?

          Did Serino or someone else order him to do it

          That is the question and I’ll bet the FBI and FDLE have the answer.

          They must be laughing tonight.

          • You saw it??!! See, it’s crazyyyyyyyyyyy!!!
            Omar’s career over is my 2nd biggest wish!! He has no business being an officer of the court. More like a ward of the court!!

          • I doubt he knows it was photoshopped. He saw what he wanted to see and got snookered.

            His latest grand move to pull his client out of the fire is blowing up in his face.

            He said the prosecution finally turned over this photograph on 10/29 and I’ll bet they could barely contain themselves waiting for him to post it on his site and wind up with egg on his face.

            Oh, did he ever get punk’d.


          • OMG, i was just thinking Omar DID NOT realize it’s a fake! He didn’t even think about having it checked! WOW! what a dummy. It’s like he’s playing the same game as the Zs, he’s not being a professional! Maybe he’s just not thinking; too worried about the money he thinks he’ll make if he wins!? He’s being careless and sloppy!

          • jm says:

            shannoninmiami says: “Omar’s career over is my 2nd biggest wish!! ”

            Oh I have so many wishes for people involved in this. Chorge imprisoned is first and foremost.. ShelLIE being found guilty of perjury. RZ Jr being humiliated for all his BS spin/lies after Chorge is found guilty so he slithers under a rock never to be heard from again. MOM the $400 an hour creep being ruined for his greed on his begsite and obvious lack of skill and shady ways.

      • groans says:

        Thanks again, Shannoninmiami. I probably didn’t zoom in enough! I’ll keep working on it!

      • groans says:

        Someone needs to subpoena/sieze/whatever the cop’s phone. If the photo has been shopped, wouldn’t there be evidence in the phone that it had left the phone and returned back, or was tampered with inside the phone?

  9. aussie says:

    Actually it shows quite clearly some surface swelling on the right side, exactly where the scratch is that might be a burn, the one probably caused by the bullet casing. That wouldn’t take long to go down, being entirely superficial.

  10. FactsFirst says:

    Calling LLMPapa I’mma need you to do a video of the differences between this~~> (the photo O’Mara dropped on GZ’S website today)
    and this~~>>>

    The photos taken at SPD that night… Like, HOW????

      • jm says:

        Lots of blood. Did Trayvon have any blood on his long-sleeved hoodie? Can’t see how he could have avoided it since Chorge said his head was grasped by Trayvon after he punched Chorge in the nose and then smothered.

        His nose looks really bad/bigger/swollen but the next day during reenactment and during police interviews it looked normal when compared to his mug shot except for a scratch. How does that happen overnight and how does Chorge not want to see a doctor?

        Would MOM post a photoshopped picture on his website and if so, could he get into trouble?

        • Facts First said,

          “Would MOM post a photoshopped picture on his website and if so, could he get into trouble?”

          He won’t get into trouble with the court, but he will be the laughingstock of the nation together with his client for the pretty obvious hack job of a photoshop effort that will be interpreted as yet another admission of guilt.

          Talk about a career-killer case!


      • Brown says:

        O’mara is sinking fast. Putting that color photo on his website does no good.

        • jm says:

          Brown says: “Putting that color photo on his website does no good.”

          Sure the photo will incite those who believe Trayvon is a black thug and will sell more autographs signed by the “hero”, Chorge, who killed a black thug.

          • Brown says:

            We all know that his supporters already believe that. O’mara thinking is flawed if he really thinks that color photo will increase revenue. What O’mara is doing IMO, is showing the lack of serious injury. Already people are saying things like, I had bloodier nose bleeds, or I’ve gotten hit with a soccer ball that looked worse then that. A small nosebleed does not equal to a unarmed kid with a hollowpoint in the heart.

      • FactsFirst says:

        I don’t know about y’all, but I see two COMPLETELY different noses.. or am I tripping? IJS…

      • Cercando Luce says:

        Swelling went down quickly per photo #31 and #47. Not broken. Perhaps welt formed from scrape.

        Notice how mustache is dyed light brown.

      • aussie says:

        That photo was the one taken by ??? one of the cops at the scene with his cell phone. It is the one he showed around to residents asking if they knew who it is.

        It is the photo that came out in earlier evidence dumps as an undecipherable black and white photo copy.

        So, it is the photo taken at the scene, before the EMT cleanup, probably around the same time witness Jon took the one of the back of his head. Odd he didn’t take the FRONT as well, or did he? or the cops arrived before he got around to it?

        It does NOT tie in with the “45% of head covered wit blood” unless that only applied to the back of the head.

        Can anyone see the background? is that GZ already sitting in the cop car?

      • Malisha says:

        That photo where he closes his eyes and does his innocent choirboy thing is the one that gets me. “Ohhhhhh poooooor me I was so badly beaten, ahhhhhh but I must be brave…”

      • ladystclaire says:

        @JM and professor, this is just another photo shopped photo like the Caylee Anthony opening the sliding glass door to her grandparent’s home. and, IMO Mark O’money is a slimy excuse for an attorney. smdh

    • Xena says:

      I don’t know about y’all, but I see two COMPLETELY different noses

      I do too. Interestingly, the EMTs did not report putting an ice pack on GZ’s nose for the swelling that would bring it down by the time he arrived at the police station. The pics taken in the police station show no swelling on GZ’s nose.

      What I remember from discovery is that Meade reported taking the pic of GZ’s face and Trayvon’s face. Presumably, that would be before the EMT’s cleaned up GZ. Yet, one EMT reported that about 45 percent of GZ’s face and head was covered with blood.

      The defense needs to get a proper timeline for the pics, or caca is going to fly at trial so no pics are entered into evidence.

      • jm says:

        Xena says: EMTs did not report putting an ice pack on GZ’s nose for the swelling that would bring it down by the time he arrived at the police station. The pics taken in the police station show no swelling on GZ’s nose.

        I don’t believe an ice pack would reduce that amount of swelling so quickly. I also wonder why the next day there was no bruising from a blow that caused that much swelling. Also question if Chorge didn’t have trouble breathing from the “temporary” nose swelling that seems to have been miraculously cured in an extremely short time.

        I dunno what but something is very wrong. Who took what picture at what time.

        What time did Chorge do his reenactment when he moved easily and had no swelling of his nose and no bruising of his face?

      • i just checked it in windows paint!!, ( i can’t use my old laptop for graphics) the one released today is DEFINITLY photo shopped! FOR REAL! this is a total scam!!!
        I PROMISE anyone can open the larger pic i posted to my wordpress account with ANY photo software and you can see where the * LUMP * is added!!!

        • jm says:

          You know, not only does GZ’s nose look swollen on one side but his nose is elongated. Definitely something is wrong with that picture. You can’t reduce swelling like that and “shorten” his nose to the size in the picture taken later that evening.

          • Xena says:

            You can’t reduce swelling like that and “shorten” his nose to the size in the picture taken later that evening.

            THANK YOU JM!! That is what I’ve been trying to say. GZ’s face is long in the photo. In the one taken at the police station, his jaws are fatter.

        • Xena says:

          I PROMISE anyone can open the larger pic i posted to my wordpress account with ANY photo software and you can see where the * LUMP * is added!!!

          The nose lump is a lighter complexion too. Mead must have tried coloring the lump but he didn’t get a perfect match. Bruising is darker. He should have chosen purple.

      • groans says:


        I don’t see that the EMTs even MENTION a swollen nose. (Their report is on pages 182-183 of the May 18th evidence dump.)

        If he had a honker like shown in the GZLegal photo, it would seem impossible for them not to have seen it.

        Very strange.

        • Brown says:

          Thanks to Nemerinys from BccList for finding the report I was looking for regarding Wagner.

          copied reply post from Nemerinys

          First Discovery

          Page 18 – Wagner’s report, dated 24 March
          Page 64 – Serino’s ROI supplemental, dated March 22, stating he received email and photos from Wagner on 21st

      • Malisha says:

        O’Mara does not like the photographs and does not talk about them, notice?

      • Malisha says:

        But on 2/27/2012 Cheorge was careful to explain to the voice-stress guy that he needed water because he had to breathe through his mouth because his nose had been injured. He reminds people of little things all the time. Remember to Hannity: “After we mentored the kids, …” Remember to Serino, “And I WASn’t following…” Remember the big bandaids? Reminders, reminders: “Remember, Georgie was hurt!” “Remember, Georgie was victimized and nearly died!”

      • gblock says:

        He is sitting inside the door of a car or truck in the picture – you can see a white car door frame.

        His face does seem longer and narrower in this picture than in most of the pictures that I’ve seen. Could the different angle account for that?

        The lump does look like it could be a zit, but you wouldn’t think that it would go down that fast.

        The blood looks like it would have been coming from the tip of his nose rather than the inside of his nose. And why is it all over his lip? Wouldn’t people usually either wipe off or lick off blood on their lips?

        • Xena says:

          Wouldn’t people usually either wipe off or lick off blood on their lips?

          I would think so. Also, I would think that the blood would not stop at the top lip. It would continue to run down unless it’s syrup.

    • groans says:

      FactsFirst said: “Calling LLMPapa I’mma need you to do a video ….”

      I just happened to think – didn’t LLMPapa do a video of the killer with an ever-growing Pinnochio nose? Maybe he could use some of that footage, and draw a zit-looking lump on the side of the Pinochio nose! LOL!

  11. Two sides to a story says:

    These work product rules are the reason there are so many wild theories and theatrics over at the Treestump (and once in awhile, here). Lately the Stumpers are out on a branch about Trayvon’s phone being dead, DeeDee not existing at all, and other wishful thinking.

    • Malisha says:

      The funny part of that is that the cops didn’t want to look at the phone calls and Tracy Martin had to search for that evidence himself. DeeDee, if she were “non-existent,” would have called in herself and them made a carefully-arranged public appearance crying and tearing her hair out! Also, she wouldn’t have any areas of doubt about what happened. She would have said, “Trayvon said to me, this guy is really scary; he has a gun; he’s hunting for me and calling me a ni**er; OMG he’s unzipping his pants, he wants to rape me” and then she would have said she heard a creepy voice ask: “What the fuck’s your problem, homie?” and then she heard Trayvon scream, “Please put that gun down; don’t shoot; I’m not really Black I was just kidding; HELPPPPPP!” and then she heard the creepy guy say, “Too bad, punk a55hole, you’re gonna die tonight.”

      Don’t those Outhousers know how to fake up a case properly? Damn!

    • They do quite well in the Department of Creative Imagination, but not so well in other venues, especially in the Department of Empathy.

  12. Thanks for this, now i know why no one from the state has said anything about the killer’s position and control when he shot Trayvon!
    It’s interesting how they get to keep this info to themselves. And this also reminds me of the attorneys responsibility to act in good faith. Something i have a hard time figuring out when and how they define this.

    just today on IN Session a defense attorney was explaining his job was to come up with and provide a theory in his clients defense to save him from the death penalty. The client is charged with double murder with NO bodies. His defense was basically that the cops never looked at any other possibilities/suspects and the victims could still be alive anyway. He did not sit up there and say anyone else in particular did it, probably because there were no other suspects.. but what i liked about it was he didn’t make up outlandish accusations against someone else without so much as inkling of evidence.
    But, it’s also a bench trial, so i figure theatrics like that wouldn’t do much good in front of a judge.

    • Criminal defense lawyers typically refer to a bench trial as a slow motion guilty plea. They know the outcome will be guilty, but they believe something about the evidence that comes in will mitigate the penalty the judge imposes to life without parole (in this case).

    • Xena says:

      Shannon, that’s an interesting trial, isn’t it? The defense wants to argue that the cops didn’t investigate a report of seeing the two victims in a store in Washington state. Yeah. Sure. Where is that witness?

      Did you see the part where the defense tried arguing about the arrest warrant being for grand theft when the cops really wanted the defendant for murder?

      • yeah Xena, but i didn’t put it together at first. it took awhile before i realized the defense was actually using that as a *defense*! LOLOL

        • Xena says:

          yeah Xena, but i didn’t put it together at first. it took awhile before i realized the defense was actually using that as a *defense*! LOLOL

          To paraphrase the position of the defense:
          “Your honor, my client was arrested in Seattle, WA on a warrant issued in South Carolina. It was a warrant for grand theft, not for murder, so murder charges should be dismissed.

          Furthermore, just because the car is registered to someone who is presumed dead does not mean that my client stole the car. The grand theft charges should also be dismissed until the presumed dead owner files a stolen vehicle report.”


      see if this works. it’s GZ same day

      • Brown says:

        Great work Shannon!

      • jm says:

        No way his nose reduced in size that quickly even with an ice pack and cleaned up by EMTs. Something is “wrong” with one of the pictures and I suspect it is the one with the swollen nose and blood. Does anyone know the time between when the first picture was taken and the last?

        • Brown says:

          7:17 — Officer T. Smith (first there) arrives in squad car at Retreat View.[16]
          7:17:40+ — Officer Smith arrives at crime scene.[17]
          7:19:07 — Photo taken of Zimmerman’s head injuries by a civilian bystander.[18]
          7:19:43 — Officer Smith takes Zimmerman into custody.[17]
          7:25+ — Sanford police take a photo of George Zimmerman in a squad car.[19]
          7:30 — Trayvon Martin pronounced dead at the scene by paramedic.[16]
          7:40 — Sanford Fire Department treats Zimmerman for his injuries.[20]
          7:52 — Zimmerman’s arrival at police station recorded on video.
          10:30 — Martin’s father and his fiancee return to the townhome, realize he is missing, are concerned, but think he may be with a cousin.[21]
          11:21 — Crime Scene Tech D. Smith photographs Zimmerman’s injuries and hands; uses Gunshot Residue Kit to collect GSR. Zimmerman’s clothing taken as evidence after wife arrives with a change of clothes.[22][23][24]

          above copied from wikipedia

          @7:19 photo taken by LEO Michael Wagner
          @7:52 arrives at cop shop
          @11:21 CSI tech D Smith takes admitted killer pics of hands face hands etc.

      • it’s fake! it’s poorly photo shopped! does anyone have a decent computer, if they could just open these pics in graphic software they can clearly see!!! please look!!

        • Xena says:

          The first thing I noticed in comparing the 2 pics is that in the one with the purported broken nose, the face has also been narrowed. It’s not the way he’s holding it either. His face is smaller in “weight.”

      • Malisha says:

        I’m glad you put up those two photos. Here’s my reaction:

        1. He did not get punched in the nose. The scratch on the right hand side of the bridge of his nose could not have resulted from a punch in the nose.

        2. I can believe they were taken on the same day if taken with two different cameras in two different light situations.

        3. That does not look like a nose bleed to me. There is a smudge on the right side of his mouth — nosebleeds are a lot different from what I see there. Nosebleeds are all over the place, on collar, shirt, all over chin, just FLOWING. Not a clot here and a smudge there. Not a nose bleed.

        4. Ick. I don’t like his eyes. Somebody pluck them out, quick!


        • cielo62 says:

          Yes his eyes are very strange. Makes me believe the “inbred” theory floated somewhere.

          Sent from my iPod

        • jm says:

          In first photo his nose looks downright obscene. His eyes are pure evil. 😈 Honestly, I can’t stand to look at him. Not sure that is a picture MOM would want to portray his client unless he wants to sabotage him.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @ShannonInMiami, I so agree with you that this photo is sooooo, photo shopped! why the hell didn’t his face show these places on his face when he was at the SPD? none of the photos taken there, look anything like the one his defense is trying to pass off as proof of a broken nose!

      • Two sides to a story says:

        That fake bump looks like a giant zit – LOL! And it clearly isn’t there in the SPD photos a few hours later.

        The weekend before Thanksgiving, our gardner put the lawn and garden trimmings into the wrong dumpster. When he does that, I usually dump them on the ground and transfer them to the right dumpster with a rake and shovel. When I pushed the dumpster on it’s side (the smaller plastic home versions that probably hold about 40-50 gallons or something) it didn’t fall the way I expected it to and I got clipped hard on the left side of the bridge of my nose. It left a little cut just like GZ’s , but bigg diff – I did get a pretty noticeable raccoon eye the next day that gradually peaked and looked it’s worst about 3 days later. I had a dark stripe along my left eye on Thanksgiving.

        If GZ gotten a grand punch or a series of punches, and his nose were really broken or cracked at the bridge, he’d definitely have had at least one raccoon eye and probably two. THat he didn’t shows there’s something wrong with his story. I’ve been punched full force by an adult male on the bridge of my nose, had a bona fide broken nose with double raccoon eyes that were quite noticeable within a couple of hours and really good and dark in 24 hours. His wounds aren’t what he says they are. I also had a gusher of a bloody nose and ran to lean over a sink to keep from getting blood all over me.

        • @TST, see, you don’t just get a broken nose without black eyes, bloody clothes and plugged up nose so bad you can barely breathe right! BFS!! NO WAAY

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Looking at the side by side:

          Pay particular attention to the fact that the nose with the bump is enlarged. Next, the stem that descends between the eye is narrowed. This is the result of “warping” tool application. The nose is distorted and the bump is likely just another application of the warping tool to that area. Using warping tools is extremely difficult, because it usually alters everything in the direction of the warp.

          To control this, we apply a warp only to a selection. So that other parts of the picture are not altered. Unfortunately for the artist, they applied the warping tool with the entire nose selected, that cause the entire nose to change shape. It was a “quick ‘n’ dirty” alteration job, probably not done with adobe photoshop, which offers more sophisticated tools for altering pictures, especially from CS3 onward. I could do these alterations better with Photoshop 5.0, but it would take a considerable amount of time and effort. Something this artist was not willing to do. Nor is it any wonder they wouldn’t invest the time and extra effort needed to get it right… Because a later photo exists that would put the lie to the effort in any event. So why bother?

          Thus, they decided to go with “the laffer”, the easily identified fake.
          Which I call “laffers” because they simply don’t pass the “smell” test.
          I judge this was done by some rabid proZ or some silly child seeking to influence the debate, for the purpose of enjoying some chuckles, watching the combatants struggle in agony, over false data supplied.

          • You said,

            “I judge this was done by some rabid proZ or some silly child seeking to influence the debate, for the purpose of enjoying some chuckles, watching the combatants struggle in agony, over false data supplied.”

            The problem for Wagner, Serino and the SPD is that the photograph was altered during the time that it was in their custody, possession and control. That’s pretty damning evidence of a civil rights violation.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            The nostrils in the right hand picture exhibit widening and great distortion. While up near the left eye in the left hand photo, find a small mark that is in a narrow swath of light color that extends across the nose. Look to the right hand photo and you can see these same two features greatly distorted, the band of color is much wider from top to bottom and the angle of the lower edge of it is increased.

            If this happened while the picture was in police custody and the original was erased, that is extremely improper conduct. Meanwhile, as we know from reading about hard drives, files don’t get erased as people think they do, they first get their file names corrupted and their place on the FAT table marked as free, but the data is still there in those FAT sectors, until it gets overwritten. How soon it will get overwritten depends on drive size and usage.

            However, even when it is overwritten, there is software that can still recover the file. Because the drive is never degaussed, so the data merely fades below what the drives reader is set to detect. The data is still there, only weaker and there is software that can peel back the layers, so to speak, and recover everything, all the way back to when the drive was first put into service. The only barrier is cost!

      • groans says:

        Two Sides, have you considered wearing a hockey helmet … for “nose precautions”? 🙂

        Thanks for sharing, and I hope the upcoming holidays are kinder and gentler on you!

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