I posted this new title to focus the discussion of this latest development here in this thread.
Here is a link to the photograph of the defendant that was taken by SPD Officer Wagner using his digital cell phone on the night of the murder as the defendant sat in the back of Officer Tim Smith’s patrol vehicle. He is sitting sideways in the seat with his legs sticking out of the vehicle and resting on the ground.
Wagner claimed that he forgot he had the photo and he finally emailed it to Serino on March 21st, approximately 3 weeks after the murder.
Shannoninmiami has examined it at the pixel level and she says it was photoshopped.
I do not have the software to do that, but I have worked with photoshop and this photo looks to have been clumsily photoshopped by a novice.
Hopefully, one of you can provide a link to the high definition photographs taken at the station house arouund 11:30 pm so that we can compare them.
Frederick Leatherman Law Blog 
Sorry, I meant that question to be rhetorical :o)
It’s quite obvious, to me anyway, which side you’re supporting.
Whether the photograph is Photoshopped or not, the relevant issues are:
1) George Zimmerman used excessive force
2) The injuries sustained or self inflicted, by George Zimmerman, does not justify or are comparable to such excessive force
3) Trayvon Martin had no significant contusions/lacerations on his body to mirror the relatively minor injuries George Zimmerman sustained, in comparison to the fatal injury Trayvon Martin sustained i.e. Newton’s Third Law of Motion dictates ‘For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction’, therefore, IF Trayvon Martin inflicted such injuries on Zimmerman, he should have:
a) George Zimmerman’s DNA on at least his hands e.g. under his finger nails
b) George Zimmerman’s blood on his hands/clothing
c) Contusions or lacerations on his body, comparable to the force George Zimmerman claimed Trayvon Martin used
So, in conclusion, although the colour picture is interesting, it certainly does not prove anything for the defence. In fact, it is more detrimental to the defence and public opinion than O’Mara might suspect AND since there is no tangible evidence for items 3 a), b) or c), the defence’s case is built on wet sand.
The only statement you made that I disagree with is that the defense case is built on “wet sand.”
I call it smoke and mirrors.
In my angry, impatient and less charitable moments, I call it bullshit.
You are more polite and proper.
Good analysis.
It’s somewhat encouraging to read YOU become just as angry & impatient as we do, especially when GZ lies or is simply disingenuous, when being interviewed.
I have been regularly checking his brother’s Twitter account, since he blocked me after one tweet, to document how narcissistic this family truly is AND what they are willing to do for money. Robert Zimmerman Jnr posted the same picture you’re discussing on several of his tweets & I know he’s been interviewed stating that his brother was the victim of a ‘heinous assault’. By my accounts, his injuries were nowhere near as heinous as some I’ve seen of battered women who are extremely vulnerable on just a physical level. Tell me which you think is the ‘heinous assault’.
You are preachin’ to the choir.
I just banned mike mccauley for attempting to derail the discussion on this thread with false accusations and information.
Gracias
Thanks – His style did seem a bit familiar from another site under a different name. I see a pattern that when one of them gets booted elsewhere they pop up with a normal sounding name, a real name, and try to steer this into the gutter of Zidiocy.
Yep.
As if they can sneak one by us…..the nerve !!
The press release for the petition was posted to Yahoo news. I paid it a visit and read the comments. Seems like a few Zidiots went wild deleting racially bigoted comments they made on other articles. Others went on attack against Leatherman and myself.
When I checked yesterday, there were only 22 comments, but the Zidiots had more than 40 thumbs up to their comments. LOL!!! That’s the thumbing war game they play on Yahoo. They have no idea what they convey in terms of their fear and envy
i saw that. They’re a collective joke and the damage control is a joke!!!!
Damage control. LOL!! I like that.
Spock “There’s no intelligent life there captain…..and no logical thinking at all”
Captain “Spock, there must be something that can be done”
Spock “That would infer intelligence captain and there simply is none”
Captain “How about you Bones….any suggestions…”
Bones “Damn it man….I’m a doctor not a magician !!”
Captain “Well, then we’ll just circumvent Planet Zidiot and continue on…..”
Spock “That would be the most logical and intelligent option Captain”
Xena……ahead warp speed……..”
Xena “Yes Captain (thank God !)”
Captain “Spock, is there any logical answer as to why Plant Zidiot is like that. I’ve logged 137 trillion light years worth of travel and have never seen that behavior anywhere”
Spock “That would be a perfectly accurate observation Captain. There is only one reason and it is highly illogical”
Captain “…….well Spock, spit it out, what…..?”
Spock “Captain, I’m embarrassed to say the words it is so illogical and ugly”
Captain “Spock ….are you ……crying ?”
Spock “Xena and the others can attest to this…..it’s an ugly trait that is…..well, it’s called Racism”
Captain “But that defies all logic Spock, racism was deemed to be socially unacceptable and outlawed with criminal penalties in the 1900’s”
Spock “Correct captain and that is why we must do all in our power to avoid them”
Captain “Xena, commence communication with Darth and see if he has the Death Star fixed back up………he’ll know what to do to those racists………..he’ll know what to do”
Xena “Aye Aye Captain”
That Is Superb!
I’m gettin in the mood for some more Zimmy lyrics.
LOL@racerrodig. Yeah. You got it. 🙂
Maybe LLMPapa can do a video compilation along those lines. I would if I could, but I can’t so I won’t.
I. LOVE. THIS!!! Beam me aboard! I’ve got a light saber AND a phaser!
Sent from my iPod
They say that GZ killed TM using Shelly’s gun. I thought that maybe, since the guns are similar, he might have taken Shelly’s gun and left her at home with his. Now I’m not so sure. In the NEN call we hear a gun being racked that sounds like a Kel Tec 9, and I don’t think it actually has to be GZ doing the racking.
Think about it, if he had someone else out there with him, it would make sense that they had Zimmerman’s gun, since Zimmerman was supposed to claim the shooting. Thus, using hollow point bullets which shatter, would make ballistics impossible. You couldn’t tell which gun had fired the fatal shot. Or who did it. Unless you had more information and that 8yr old witness might just be the straw that breaks the case.
Wow, this could mean that some of these racist posters are holding sensitive jobs.
The racist bigots on Yahoo comments are unable to say anything in defense of GZ without using derogatory terms against Trayvon or Blacks in general.
What they intend to use to humiliate has come back to haunt them not only in the sense that they support that GZ committed a hate crime, but also in the sense that GZ is not gaining financial supporters. Who in their right mind, even if believing he is innocent, wants to be associated with his internet-presence supporters?
I get that, but, if they were normal people, they wouldn’t post messages that they were not proud to have read in the first place. If they do, then they probably don’t care what others think.
But to turn back and delete their own comments, has to mean that something about their beliefs is wrong. Either they don’t believe themselves, don’t or are unwilling to stand behind what they’ve said.
Or, in my opinion, they’ve realized that possible discovery of these comments is likely to have unwanted consequences. If so, they’re probably holding sensitive jobs, that, they very likely have no business holding. Like LEO or gov’t jobs, where their internet presence is likely to be subjected to involuntary searches.
You might be correct, but it’s my opinion that THEY KNOW the beliefs and actions of White Supremacists are not welcomed in America. They are probably more fearful that the government is watching and tracking their internet usage. How many times have one of them committed a crime and it is discovered that the government has been keeping an eye on their internet usage for years?
Haw, their boy Bush and the GOP party that welcomed them into the fold, in the hopes that their “low information voters” votes would help them win election after election, were also information/spy freaks and no holds barred privacy invasion proponents. So they should have gone quiet years ago. OH!!! My bad, they are, after all; “Low information voters”, hahahaha… Guess that explains their utter stupidity, and why they’ve now got to race to lock the barn doors, long after the horses have fled. Hahahaha… What fools!
Oh Lonnie. Right on!
I was right down front and center battling with them on usenet. What we didn’t realize, before Bush was elected, just how deep was the republican control of the media was. It surprised us, because they didn’t reveal it until they absolutely had to. Then it took sometime to trace. But through their “christian” connections, they had taken control of most local newspapers and newsletters. The kind that circulate in neighborhoods. Wow.
The one racist Matt ? Pat ? Cat Rugar from HP is one I found on youtube at a white supremest camp. He was at a gun range at this camp shooting at targets about 200 feet away. There were about 25 or so young adults prospecting behind him and he turned and fired at them as they ducked. Evidently this is part of the initiation. Rugar had used his own picture on HP for awhile and it was him. My LE connection verified this as he was under investigation for racist stuff elsewhere. Not long after I slapped him with the video discovery he disappeared and the video was pulled.
Yes sir. white supremest Zidiots at their best.
Funny you mention “Matt” because in Yahoo comments there’s a “Matt” that back-pats Alexander the Great who admits that he has at least 35 different accounts and posts using different handles. Matt, Alexander the Great, Clint, Tim, and Michael (all suspected of being the same person), disrupt comment boards by accusing others of having multiple accounts. Then they start with the gay jokes and demeaning comments ABOUT pro-Trayvon commenters. They continue that behavior for weeks after an article has become old so any decent comments and discussions are long buried.
However, it appears that they boycotted the article about Lonnie’s Press Release. When they first started, someone commented that they were only proving that their comments support that GZ committed a racial hate crime. LOL!
As hard as it is to accept, racists are everywhere.
Yes, that is a fact that we are all well aware of. But that they should be so incredibly stupid as to post on public boards, is far and away beyond the pale. Obviously they need to be held to account, since if they’re working in places where they have authority, of any kind over people, they need to be exposed. Before they can visit further tragedy and travesty on applicants and subordinates.
Does anyone know of a volunteer project that tracks racists? I know there are a lot of groups out there that are doing many things. This should certainly be one of them. Ensuring that these racist posters are only responsible for their own welfare alone, and not holding powers or positions of authority over others.
A very good thought, but my fear is if they get busted as to what they are, will the economy collapse with all the firings and prosecutions!! That’s probably how many there are.
We’re not that good, we won’t get them all at the same time. Just a few at a time, the economy will do just fine.
it was my “Embellish the Point” hour. Thanks !
Unit Rob? 🙂
Sent from my iPod
unit has used many names on HP including Ted Newsome, believe it or not.
LMAO its because the Zidiots only power is internet manipulation LMAO
They know in real life if they were caught making remarks like that in public, they would get dismayed by the public reaction to it
like Denise Helms or the UCLA white girl, and other racists who are outed from their closets LMAO
“They know in real life if they were caught making remarks like that in public, they would get dismayed by the public reaction to it.”
Dismayed …….Hell, some of them won’t need a photo – shopped picture of their nose to drag around, they’ll have the real deal.
Papa, please don’t have that face coming towards me like that, I was very scared! Ha!
Excellent video, thank you. The statement, “He had a laceration across the bridge of his nose” in addition to sounding like embellishment, is inaccurate and also very close to making a medical diagnosis. “I observed blood on his face,” or “he had a cut that was [fill in the blank in inches] below the bridge of his nose that measured [fill in the blank] would be appropriate. His statement about the laceration was inappropriate. The problem with folks like this guy on the stand is that white coat effect that puts jurors into a trance and robs them of common sense. At least that is my personal experience.
Now, it may have been strategy to allow this, whatever he is, man in a uniform blather on and on exaggerating in front of the judge and only the judge, but in front of a jury, it is a different story. An open-ended question like this in front of a jury would be a mistake, I believe. Jurors tend to believe people in white coats and uniforms, even if the person in uniform claims that there are little green men on the lawn who arrived by way of martian ray gun. When a white coat gets onto the stand, reality often gets twisted.
At 0:36 I did like Moe and poked him in the eyes.
good one.
He desoived it Nyuck, Nyuck, Nyuck !
http://www.hark.com/clips/nnltkmdsmn-curly-nyuk-nyuk
right back at cha !
Very Good !!
I try. 🙂
Just how much blood was there Fogen..show us in detail. There must be some of that Magic Blood Remover in the cop car.
I can see that scene in court where Judge Nelson is looking back and forth……back & forth…….back & forth then says very slowly…
I donnnna know……I just can’t see blood in the eyes nor as you said..”..all over…” Remanded to trial.
I’ll bet on this one, though:
“Mr. Zimmerman, perhaps you had blood all over your face and head or in your eyes or all of it. That is not a matter that this Court can decide. What this Court can decide, however, is how you came to be in a struggle with the victim. You came to be in a struggle with him by following him, against police advice, and by causing a physical struggle to take place, and you did that by choice, and nobody made you do that. So I cannot find that you were in need of defending yourself. You WERE in need of going back to your shruck and waiting for the arrival of the officers you had called. Had anyone come up to your shruck and tried to hurt you, that might be a different matter. ….”
or, as Judge Judy might say:
“Do you have any other stupid stories to tell me?”
With Fogen we can look forward to all sorts of scenarios, that’s a lead pipe cinch.
In the alternate:
“The only thing missing from your story is Once Upon a Time.”
Holy Smokes….we all missed the obvious on that one….”Once upon a time….”
LOL! You keep me in check, racerrodig. I just love bullshit like this!
I have to say we all make a really good team. Everyone seems to have a unique style and specialty. The Zidiots look at me as “Rambo” however. Not sure if that’s good or bad……but I do hold my ground.
Wear it like a Badge of Honor. That’s what I say!
That what my son says….
Damn that’s funny! They have a DUMMY book for everything!
Carry the 3, the cosign of -13 divided by 993.789885877 add the common denominator, subtract the radius of the skull and I have the picture showing about 8% ………..and that’s a stretch.
Ah Race,r I see you have taken advance mathematics. He he
I forgot to multiply in the “Zidiot Factor” That makes it 7%.
you forget , to the fourth power , now its 4% hehehe
Damn !! and I got A’s in math.
LOL
As a fund-raising project, Cheorge is now coming out with, “SELF-DEFENSE KILLING FOR DUMMIES.”
Wicked!
Now let’s not climb on the good officer’s case just because he said about 45% of Cheorge’s face was covered with blood. Maybe he meant covered on the INSIDE of his skin, not just on the OUTSIDE. See, that question wasn’t asked.
TY made my day just as I was feeling way too serious!!
I have a cramp in my side from laughing so hard.
@ Lonnie Starr, I have a sofeware on my computer that allows me to make a face. I can select eyes, ears, nose, mouth, the complete head with a face. Now if I can do this with my software, just think what someone can do with a hard copy picture. I know a picture can be altered, besides, we have two pictures side by side. You don’t have to be a Einstein to figure this one out.(hope I spelled his name right).
Google for warp, morph you’ll see plenty of programs that offer such tools that distort images. But these tools are difficult to manage, and that’s why there so much distortion in the photo. The program they used, probably didn’t allow you to either work on a selection or use layers to segregate the portion you want to work with, from the rest of the picture.
At the pixel level the pixel blocks are intact, but that only means that it wasn’t a cut and paste, like the Jill Shively photo of the flight 93 crash on 911. In that photo you can see that the smoke cloud is pasted in, it even cuts off a few tree tips with sky. At the pixel level the pixel blocks disappear completely in the area that’s been pasted in.
@ Lonnie Starr, you are absolutely correct. The picture on the right has been altered. There’s no getting around it.
Yep, I’ve also just noticed that the nose has been pulled downward and to the left. That changes it’s shape entirely, and that cannot be from any swelling or other biological cause. If you look at the detail under the eye, you’ll see that on the left side it shrinks, while on the right side it widens in a downwards direction. physically moving his nose out of position.
MOM should have looked at this picture more carefully before he posted a fraudulent photo.
Something just occurred to me. In domestic abuse and physical assault cases where photos of the victim are presented, it’s ALWAYS AFTER they have been cleaned up. Blood can make anything look more drastic than it really is. So, chances are that any photos of GZ not taken at the police station will not be admitted at trial. Thus, O’Mara is simply pimping out the photos to GZ’s financial supporters –give them hope that he can get GZ off.
It´s called perspective distortion and is due to lens and distance no more no less. Taking a photo too close, and it is very close, and the camara acts as wide angle which distorts what is nearest, i.e. nose!
So, I take it that you are agreeing that the image is distorted, but you are attributing the distortion to natural causes rather than after-the-fact manipulation.
Am I correct?
Can you rule out the possibility that both factors may be at work here?
Or, how would you do that, if you had a chance to examine the photograph.
Nope, this isn’t lens distortion. The whole picture isn’t affected, just discrete areas having to do with the nose. I use photoshop 5.5 but I’ve used photoshop CS3 I know an alteration when I see one.
The photo on the right has been warped, and the warping is uneven. There’s a program called zoner, which has a warp mesh, it does things like that. Because it’s very difficult to control how the mesh works. What I do is I cut out the portion I want to warp and make a new picture of it. Then I warp that and paste it back in. Then I have to re blend the edge pixels and adjust the color and light. It’s a lot of work to make it look right.
In any event the whole face is thinner and the chin shape is changed, in the same proportions from the comparison photo. That cannot be lens distortion.
I have not read the comments yet, but had a few questions…one, how was his face 3/4 covered in blood (according to the EMT) and yet this photo is what he looked like “immediately” after the murder which shows small amounts of blood (he had it in his eyes remember)?
Two, how does this photo stack up to one taken 30 minutes later when the nose is not disfigured and most of this damage is not seen?
Either the police had some magic healing serum in their car or this is a fake photo.
I remember, he had blood in his eyes so he couldn’t SEE! WOW, that’s a lot of blood in someone’s eyes; don’t they blink? Don’t they wipe it with their sleeve? Doesn’t someone killing them with bare hands get a little blood on their hands in the process?
Malisha, I couldn’t agree more.
Listen, the stuff that’s “coming out” now is pretty silly, no matter how much gravity the newscasters try to pump into their solemn voices. Look at this:
“Audio test of the screams on the 911 call, which was placed by a neighbor near the scene, have not conclusively linked the cry for help to either Zimmerman or Martin, casting another layer of doubt in this story.”
The words “casting another layer of doubt” is supposed to help the defense by suggesting there is “reasonable doubt.” But of course there is “reasonable doubt” during the period when the defendant is still innocent until proven guilty, guys! Once there is a TRIAL and the EVIDENCE is presented, THEN how much doubt will there be, THAT is the real question.
And that is the real point. I don’t care if you show me a picture of George Zimmerman in the Playboy Centerfold until there is a trial because it does not IMPLY anything I have to INFER without the procedures known as “due process,” which everybody has been saying from the beginning. Do I BELIEVE GZ is guilty? Sure. Is it proven yet? Hell no, that’s what we have trials for. So the amount of doubt generated by anything — pictorial or not — at this point in time is not significant to me.
But, since O’Mara is spinning this, here are my reactions:
1. If GZ had ten times as much blood on his face and if his nose was ten times more swollen and bruised than shown, it still would not prove either that (a) he had to kill Trayvon Martin; or that (b) he was not the aggressor in the confrontation during which he chose to kill Trayvon Martin.
2. Zimmerman’s injuries do not cast doubt on the prosecution’s case. The prosecution does not have to prove that George killed Trayvon Martin without sustaining any injuries. It only has to prove that he killed Trayvon Martin with a depraved mind and without just cause.
3. Whose screams are on the tapes (very obvious but arguendo let’s say they’re George’s) do not cast doubt on any part of the prosecution’s case either. To prove Murder-2 one does not need to prove that the killing was silent. Only that it was depraved. Frankly, I think it is even MORE depraved to scream “HELP ME HELP ME” while you kill someone than it would be to kill him while you try to maintain at least a dignified silence.
Malisha I have been extremely concerned by this thread but fortunately yours has been a voice of reassurance in as much as that whether or not GZ had ten times as much blood it would make no difference because he killed Trayvon without cause. I say this because there is absolutely no way to determine from 2 highly compressed JPG images (I downloaded them from both Axio and GZlegal and the largest is 202 kb which is a pittance) that the photo has been photoshopped and IMO it doesn´t look like it has. I am concerned we are looking like the Outhouse where they ignore real evidence to go off on a tangent.
Don’t worry about it.
The defense and the press makes suggestions and we automatically think we have to counter them, prove them wrong, etc., when that simply isn’t so. Straight and steady and forward is all the prosecution has to do.
Defendant profiled victim;
Defendant made a record of his ill will and malice;
Defendant followed victim;
Defendant killed victim.
There is no requirement at law saying that if you get injured while you’re murdering someone, you go free. If that were true, of course, lots of battered wives could just plain skip the divorce issue and just blow the guy away during the next bloody nose.
That’s not the way the law works and this case is so public that it won’t be allowed to go that way, much as SPD would love to see that be the ultimate result.
Do not worry. Listen to the old lady: Don’t worry.
I agree absolutely. Straight and steady forward and we will get there, that is how I feel.
I just sent another reply because I felt very strongly as I spent many years manipulating photos for advertising and TV and there is no indication it was manipulated.
Sorry already posted a second lengthy reply before I got yours. I felt strongly about it and couldn´t let go. Love the way you explain things so succinctly but with all the necessary detail.
I forgot to add how important you remembered and pointed out that GZ claimed he had blood all over his face and eyes. That is now provably a lie thanks absolutely to this photo, while to claim the photo has been photoshopped is IMO a hiding to nowhere. I also found it reassuring that your point number 1 explains how it is irrelevant whether GZ had 10 times more blood, because I felt the same but without your legal acumen I was unsure this was correct.
I would also like to add that my assertion concerning the photo not being photoshopped is not a hunch nor a gut feeling, it is based on over 20 years experience as a graphic illustrator for digital image creation, manipulation and retouching from 1985 working with the state of the art Quantel Paintbox (launched in 1981) and from around 1994 using alongside Photoshop (launched 1989 but until 1994 until it incorporated “layers” in 1994 it was professionally irrelevant). I would even consider myself an expert witness in this kind of matter.
A JPG file is a file used when space is the premium not quality. JPG means “with losses”, which means that image definition, detail etc. suffers considerably and a photo that would normally use from 3, 4 and many more megabytes, as those I work with for advertising, packaging, etc. is reduced to a pittance. A good explanation for JPG so as to understand what it does is:
“JPG compression is not lossless. JPG compression is lossy. Lossy means “with losses” to image quality. JPG compression has very high size efficiency (relatively tiny files) because it is intentionally designed to be lossy, designed to give very small files without the requirement for full recoverability. JPG modifies the image pixel data (color values) to be more convenient for its compression method. Tiny detail that doesn’t compress well (minor color changes) can be ignored (not retained). This allows amazing size reductions on the remainder, but when we open the file and expand the data to access it again, it is no longer the same data as before. This lost data is like lost purity or integrity. It can vary in degree, it can be fairly good, but it is always unrecoverable corruption of the data.”
I had coffee with a doctor friend this morning, who is also following this case. We talked about the latest photo and swelling issue. Neither of us know anything about photography, except camera angle and lighting can distort a photograph. She thinks GZ should be found guilty as charged, but is not convinced the photo was altered. She says it is very possible for there to be more localized swelling immediately following an injury than four hours later, even without ice. She also says that blood collects around hair much differently than on skin. So, I suppose it is possible there was no photoshopping. However, we both agreed that it was odd than GZ made no apparent attempt to wipe the blood from his lips. She also noted that the bleeding from the nose was minor considering that there is no indication that the blood ran past his bottom lip.
I think it was pretty obvious that GZ was already trying to build his self-defense case by having the witness at the scene photograph his minor scrapes on his head. I think his normal vitals after the shooting prove he was either medicated, drunk, or an empty shell of a human being. The doctor might also agree. I would expect GZ’s BPMs to elevate pretty high, especially with all of that adrenaline running through him. Nobody gets beat half to death & shoots the person, and has normal vitals afterward. Even police officers are haunted and traumatized from shooting and killing someone, even if they had to do it to preserve their own life.
New Post Up:
Featuring Lonnie Starr and his Theory of the Trayvon Martin Case
I tried to comment lastnight, but I guess I forgot to hit send before signing off. lol
I was commenting on the appearance of George’s nose from when he was younger. The photos of him in a tuxedo, the one of him as a child in the tan shirt(looks like a school photo maybe). The tip of his nose is much thicker than it is now. Which got me wondering if he had ever had any nose surgeries in the past.
What do you guys think? Is it just the angle of his older pics making the tip of
This is an ols article, but shows the pics.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2135271/Trayvon-Martin-shooting-George-Zimmermans-role-support-protection-community-ravaged-burglaries-vandalism-just-shooting.html
GZ’s comments on his own myspace page paint him as a violent person. He supposedly beat his ex girlfriend and also assaulted a federal agent that was arresting his friend. He also worked as a bouncer. Most people that have engaged in fights have most likely been punched in the nose before so I think it is highly likely that GZ has previous nose injuries.
Me encanta mi música
https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10200098638012926
That’s hilarious, blushedbrown!
Who’s the choreographer?
LOL.
That dog’s teacher had the side to side movement down pat!!
It’s nice to have confirmation that my eyes and mind weren’t deceiving me. I too am convinced that someone’s trying to pull a fast one! ………but,…..why? Hmmm.
I believe it is because the selling of autographs was so disturbing and offensive to many people and cast GZ in such a bad light that this is O’Mara’s attempt to get sympathy back for GZ and get some of that bad light off of him.
And apparently I’m not the only one:
All this activity comes as Zimmerman remains in hiding and low on cash. A message on his defense website saying that he would sign “Thank You Cards” to supporters who donated to his fund has been publicly ridiculed.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/12/george-zimmerman-lawyers-say-bloody-nose-photo-creates-doubt/
Do you want to know what else is disturbing? Someone will probably make a GZ mask and sell it on eBay for $1,000,000. It happened with Casey Anthony. I can’t believe GZ didn’t think of this, considering he is desperately trolling for more blood money.
This includes a video of MOM speaking on the news last night about the picture.
He says,” …blood *sort* of *flooding* from his nose *a little bit.”
Say what?!! LOL
He also says discusses DeeDee and no x-rays.
But what I really want to know is how come we have video and photos of GZ at the police station and all that swelling is gone? Where did it go? Why didn’t it look like that by the time he got to the police station, why didn’t it look like that the next day for the reenactment?
Using the reasonable person test, wouldn’t a reasonable person expect that swelling to still be there a couple hours later when the police took pictures? Wouldn’t a reasonable person expect that swelling and redness to appear as bruising the next day?
Oh I listened to O’Mara and he’s just plain silly. He thinks the picture would have “quelled” some of the things he attributes to the Martin Family “handlers.” Damn Shame on him.
Does he think Black 17-year-old LIFE is worth so little that big white-man boo boo and a half thimble-full of big white-man blood overwhelms it? Martin’s family would have said, upon seeing this terrible photo, “Oh my, if our son did THAT to that poor man, no wonder he was motivated to kill our son, then let him go!”
I mean, that’s about 1810 Deep South stuff, ain’t? “That poor master was injured; he HAD to kill that boy; he had to set an example; otherwise our society would crumble.”
O’Mara still thinks that mindset is valid, huh?
“The thug gave that good guy a bloody nose; he had to be put down.”
This doesn’t make me hate Zimmerman less; it makes me hate O’Mara more. If his client had the expectation that he could take down a Black kid without even getting a scrape, about time he and those like him learned a little lesson.
It reminds me of the kind of outrage heard in 1946, 1947 when some Jewish refugees in Palestine started knocking heads of the British forces of the “Protectorate.” Just DON’T TELL US how much we’re supposed to defend ourselves. We’ll figure that our on our own, and we’ll let you know by our conduct rather than by our proclamations.
If Trayvon got his licks in before getting killed (I doubt he did), more power to him during his last five minutes on earth. Zimmerman didn’t have the right to take minute-six away from him that night. Nothing changes the balance. For every picture you can show me of poor Cheorge’s nose I can show you a tombstone, the end-date of which says 2/26/2012 when it SHOULDN’T.
Malisha: “This doesn’t make me hate Zimmerman less; it makes me hate O’Mara more.”
I despise the greedy double-talking O’Mara equal to RZ Jr and almost as much as Chorge. It is hard to watch him spin stories on his media tours to stir up the “masses” and get more money for his client. Looks O’Mara has sold his soul – if he ever had one.
“If Trayvon got his licks in before getting killed (I doubt he did), more power to him during his last five minutes on earth. Zimmerman didn’t have the right to take minute-six away from him that night. Nothing changes the balance. For every picture you can show me of poor Cheorge’s nose I can show you a tombstone, the end-date of which says 2/26/2012 when it SHOULDN’T.”
Amen
Preach it
I agree. GZ isn’t intelligent enough to learn how to use Photoshop.
I mean, that’s about 1810 Deep South stuff, ain’t? “That poor master was injured; he HAD to kill that boy; he had to set an example; otherwise our society would crumble.”
Yeah. That pretty much sums it up.
OM looked like he was sucking lemons again last night, something that always happens when the bullshit is flying !!
Two sides to a story: OM looked like he was sucking lemons again last night,
LOL OM always looks like he is sucking lemons to me. Maybe he is always dishing BS or maybe its a job hazard being a defense attorney?
So now EVERYONE in American can have a free ticket to shoot and kill someone as long as the shooter can produce a picture of his bloody nose?
Too bad for George that the jury will learn that Trayvon’s body was found 30 feet from the location that George pointed out as being where he shot Trayvon because his head was being pounded on the concrete.
I thought it was 40 feet.
I think it was actually 45 ft.
There are a few people around for whom I’d take a bloody nose and raise you a sprained ankle! There’s a judge for whom I’d give a broken rib and spleen surgery, and STILL consider I had traded up!
If that were true, there would be no living soccer players, that’s for sure.
I uploaded a graphic showing the doctored photo and the real photo side by side for a rough size approximation. Just look at how swollen and huge his nose is while he is sitting in the police car. Then look at the photo of him at the police station after he was cleaned up. His nose is the normal size. Swelling magically gone..poof. I guess O’mara feels that if Obama can fake a birth certificate in photoshop, then he can fake a broken nose.
http://tinypic.com/r/nycxax/6
Thanks for the side-by-side.
Pretty dramatic difference and the insane thing about this shopped difference is that the cops did it to justify not charging the defendant. How do things get more upside down than that?
I can say with a high degree of confidence that the FBI and the analysts in its Crime Lab have figured out that this photograph was shopped and who did it.
I’ve never been a big fan of the FBI and its lab, but this is too obvious and the list of suspects is too short: Wagner and Serino.
I agree. I would really like to know who is responsible for the doctored photo, whether it was the police or the defense. It is disgusting that every news site is posting a photo that is an obvious fake. I have not even seen a single news site questioning the authenticity of the photo. I think this shows how arrogant and morally bankrupt news agencies are.
Dennis: “I have not even seen a single news site questioning the authenticity of the photo.”
I saw the MOM interview and I was waiting for the interviewer to ask MOM how and why the nose decreased in size/swelling/bone structure from the later photos that evening or even the next day during the reenactment. Either the media is not doing their homework or they are asking softball questions so MOM keeps appearing on their shows.
I sure want an explanation for that, the pic they posted and what he looked like at the police station.
There is no explanation other than it was a doctored photo. I barely know how to use Photoshop, but I have seen some excellent work done on the Internet by people that do. I have seen really talented people rip apart the Obama birth certificate, NASA moon photos, and even the Caylee Anthony picture in Photoshop. The sad part is all of these were doctored with such complete arrogance that they are so easily detectable to be fakes.
You mean you did a side by side of a 6 year old mug shot and the night of the incident photo and claimed that the picture was photoshopped. Thats right, you are comparing a 6 year old mugshot to a 1 yr old photo. Ofcourse they will be different. Here is the correct comparison to do. The original black and white with the colored version and you will see no alterings beside color.
http://www.bagnewsnotes.com/2012/12/latest-zimmerman-black-and-white-in-color/
Anyone else who goes on about the very old mugshot should feel ashamed about themselves.
How do you account for the photos a few hours later where there is no distortion or swelling of Zimmerman’s nose.
No one is comparing a 6-year-old mugshot.
You need to get your facts together.
The photo is being compared to other photographs taken at the station house the night of the shooting.
That’s been very clear to everyone, except you, apparently.
If you make up false facts, I will ban you.
Actually, if you compare all his pics
from when he was a kid, to his police station photos, to his first arrest photo for this murder, to the court hearing photos, and his reenactment video photo stills, his nose looks exactly the same
Here is a link where all pics are compared and how it was photoshopped
http://dothprotesttoomuch.com/2012/12/03/jeepers-creepers-whered-you-get-those-peepers-george-or-lack-thereof/
Also if you good detect edited images, there is an excellent article on digital forensics
http://lifehacker.com/5644259/how-to-detect-a-photoshopped-image
Look closely at the nose… you notice the discrepancy with the tone of skin compared to his face?
The nose is also purposely misshapen and the blood looks 2 dimensional and just hanging off the tip of the nose, instead of coming straight from the nostrils
it also does not match his story because, if he was punched in the nose, and fell on his back like he claimed, and head bounced off the sidewalk, blood would have been flowing to the sides of his face, and smearing all over the assailant’s hands (alleged)
The blood just goes straight down
There is also no forensic evidence Trayvon ever struck Cheorge either
Tampering brings five years in this state, anyway. Whoever did this needs to lawyer up.
Gee gosh, can Baez represent two clients in the same case?
LOL, but interesting question. The answer, according to Fred is, “Generally, no.”
Petitions update:
Anti SYG: 13 http://wh.gov/52B2
Pro Z : 655 (hunt for it)
Pro TM: 794 http://wh.gov/IXcy
I have not, apparently, spent enough time poring over the discovery, so the question I had about the “back of the head blood rivulets” photographs is still bothering me. There’s a picture taken a few minutes after the death of Trayvon Martin. It even has a cell phone time-stamp on it somehow. It gets “revealed” first on ABC News, who say coyly that they were “given” it — not mentioning by whom. It stirs up Dershowitz and Turley but we don’t hear from O’Mara until some journalist directly asks him about the picture and he answers in an evasive and kinda dismissive way, that he’s not sure “if and how” the defense intends to use it.
Then when the evidence dumps begin, there’s another picture of blood rivulets down the back of Zimmerman’s head, no time-stamp, and they were taken at the station house, and the front of his face was also taken at that time, showing the little fingernail-looking scrape on the right side of his nose, high up near the bridge, but no swelling and no black eyes.
After that first day, bandaids and horror stories take over.
But those first two back-of-head photos! I wanted to somehow get them reproduced on thin plastic film rather than on photographic paper, and then hold the one over the other — you will see that the blood rivulets are not the same.
So the story should have been that his head bled, a photograph was taken there on the scene, the EMTs cleaned him up, the video at the station house showed no blood, he walked into the station house, and sometime thereafter but still that first night he has the same rivulets (but not identical!) all over again?
And nobody has explained the sequence of that to me. I can’t figure it out. HELP! Unless he trained his blood to flow down certain pathways every few hours, I can’t figure out how that happened.
The Petition and this blog is on Yahoo News.
http://news.yahoo.com/citizens-petition-white-house-asking-george-zimmerman-investigated-082028442.html
HURRAY!
Sent from my iPod
It also made it to USAToday and several other news sources.
824 signatures as I type this.
Hooray, 832 as I type this, with this kind of coverage we’re sure to make it. The other newspaper petition got 2 million signatures in only a few days. If I recall.
Steady as she goes.
http://29a.ch/2012/4/15/image-error-level-analysis-with-html5
Care to do the honors? The tool on this guy’s blog can do the analysis, so you will have evidence. Im on my phone here. Try other sites you find on Google so you can see if the vsrious results are consistent.
Looking at the photo again, my guess is the blood areas. It appears the blur feature of gimp may have been used on the ridge.
But science eliminates speculation. Which is proper in my mind.
Silence Dogood
There is a technique called error level analysis to detect photoshopping, et al. Also some software that can perform the analysis. GIMP would be a bit tedious to use to accomplish photoshopping. Its a free download if you want a feel for it. But it is not something that I would expect to accomplish full on changes with ease, its not the kind of high tool to accomplish much more then cropping out portions of the photo. Im not saying its impossible. It can make minute pixel by pixel color changes and emulate other colors easily in the small pixel adds. It would take a lot of time and patience to accomplish what photoshop seems to provide easily to the guy on the street.
OK, it’s been great talking about the photo. But the killer’s defense web site also posted a new motion that they say they filed on 12/3 – a “Motion to Take Additional Deposition.” Again, not a file-stamped copy, or one that has shown up yet on the court’s web site.
It’s very disturbing primarily because it puts a spotlight on Tracy Martin’s very early (i.e., as he learned of his son’s death) statement that the death shrieks did not sound like his son’s voice. The professor posted an article recently (November 21) about how Serino mishandled that situation in an inhumane (my characterization) way. Well, the killer’s lawyers apparently intend to carry that inhumanity further.
Furthermore, I don’t believe the motion was filed in good faith, because it does not allege that the defense team EVER TRIED to reach an agreement with the prosecution about scheduling the “additional deposition,” as is contemplated by the Florida Rules of Criminal Procedure.
So, it appears to be yet another whining and unnecessary motion for court relief – and even more clearly aimed at swaying the “public’s” perceptions than other defense submissions to the court that we’ve recently discussed.
I hope the Professor will address this new motion soon, to provide guidance for an intelligent discussion of it. Thank you in advance, Professor.
Yes. That would be great. I read it briefly. MOM is saying that the voice stress technician overheard Tracy answer “no” to Serino’s question. So, we’re back on the issue of who screamed for help.
It’s amazing how O’mara keeps at the side stuff, but not what Gilbreath said, “We have the body, the bullet casing, and he who will not be named statements”.
Yep. Serino wrote that in his report. He also said that Tracy was not recorded and that he was clearly emotionally impacted when they played the 911 call on his desktop computer. Sgt Leon Ceisla was present also.
First Discovery page 56 of 183
I have made this point several times, but when Sr. was asked who was screaming he stated it was George. He was then asked when he had heard GZ scream like that. Sr responded, ” When he was a teenager”!!! Soooo….
Logi says: “He was then asked when he had heard GZ scream like that. Sr responded, ” When he was a teenager”!!!”
Wonder why Chorge would scream a horrifying scream like that as a teen?
Mama Z beating him?
He probably didn’t realize he just said “…that sounds just like a teenager screaming…” irregardless of that teens name.
He didn’t. Papa Z lied.
Speaks volumes, doesn’t it? 🙂
No we’re not. We’re back on the issue of what a second-hand-ear- witness thought or didn’t think about who screamed for help. And that witness (Martin) is not an expert witness and his opinion is not of any evidentiary value. He was not there at the time of the scream. He is not an auditory expert. He probably never heard a terrified scream from his son all the years he knew the boy, because when Trayvon’s daddy was near him, he was not terrified.
I believe the question was worded something like – can you be CERTAIN this is Trayvon’s voice – quite a difference than asking Is it your son’s voice? Another bit of theatrics coming from the Treestump and used by OM to stir up donations and controversy.
I have been searching for where I heard that. It wasn’t a direct “Is this your son?” kind of question…more of a “Can you say with certainty that this is your son?” His “no” response was because, how could anyone be 100% sure when they had never heard their son scream for their life before?
I believe Ciesla was in the hall, not in the room. If Erwin was in the room why didn’t Serino say that in his report? Am I missing a report?
Who cares what any layman thinks about who screamed for help! It’s who shot whom and who did so with or without depravity and with or without justification that matters here.
The rest of it is mindless drivel that O’Mara wants to shoot into the public consciousness so he can get away with a plea deal that should never be acceptable to any prosecutor worth one dollar of taxpayer’s dollars.
Talk about a whole new level of low: How in the world would anyone know what their son would sound like moments before he was killed? Besides, the distraught father later did identify the voice as that of Trayvon. Plus, the scream stops instantly when the shot is fired. Common sense says the person who was shot was the one who stopped screaming when he was shot. This doesn’t take rocket science to figure out. Trying to play this off like it was GZ will likely offend the jury, to say the least.
Under the guise of filing a “necessary” motion to depose Irwin again, the defense lays out a set of facts that suggest something improper happened regarding what is characterized as a serious matter. This is more bloviation IMO in the form of mischaracterizing the importance of Serino’s set-up to maximize the chance that Tracy Martin would not be able to identify Trayvon as the person who shrieked.
The death shriek ended with the gunshot and no one with an ounce of sense would think the shooter was shrieking, especially when the shooter can be heard interrogating the victim just before the fatal shot.
Sure, let him depose Irwin again about Tracy Martin’s response even though his response is irrelevant. Whether he recognizes that shriek or not, that was Trayvon’s shriek because the defendant shot him to death abruptly terminating it.
End of story.
Besides, how can any parent identify an inhuman terrorized shriek like that when their child probably never faced certain death in the form of a gun pointed at them and uttered a sound like that?
Sorry, if I seem impatient. It’s not with you or your question. It’s with the absurd lawyer game being played.
The games being played with this shriek really irritate me.
Very early in the case, even before much of the evidence was released, a lawyer on a message board unrelated to the case said that he had no way to prove it, but his gut instinct was that the prosecution was holding back some really damning piece of evidence. Perhaps he was right after all.
I believe they’ve got a game changer. My money’s on the carry permit, however. I don’t believe he sent in the forms regarding the completion of the diversion program.
That said, it could have something to do with this photo. It looks awfully strange. The blood at the tip of the nose doesn’t look flush to the skin. It gives the impression of a minute gap between skin and blood, making the blood look as if it’s floating millimeters above his skin. Doubtless, Corey’s team had it analyzed, and since the SPD officer had it for 3 weeks, the feds and FDLE have probably looked at it, as well.
-Nef
The CCW permit is in fact invalid. In the 1st discovery dump there is a refund for the mandatory classes. My opinion is he knew he’d never get his permit because of his psych issues. He applied, got a refund, and had Da Da make a call and claim hey he applied and took the classes there must be a red tape snafu somewhere.
This could very well be it! :]
Well, whatever prosecution holds back passage 4 to 5 of the motion can be easily twisted into a completley different only superficially pro SPD strategy by defense. People inside police work together not every encounter search for advise from a colleague may leave a documentary trail.
-Sorry, seems I missed to close the blockquote:
From here on: Why would it matter … it’s me, as you will realize by the bad English.
notice, according to Axiom Amnesia the voice reenactment was done on 03/22/2012, which means three days after Serino wrote his 03/19/12 ROI with the added evidence of a a Tracy Martin photo with time stamp from that day.
What exactly do they expect to hear from Erwin, that after the supposed statement by Tracy Martin no further voice reenactment should have been done? And he advised against it? Do they want to ge the voice reenactment out of evidence? That is the core question concerning the latest motion surrounding Erwin.
I think it’s past “possible” and into “probable.”
Sorry to bust that bubble Rachel, It wasn’t edited by GIMP. GIMP is the program used on some phones that process the image taken to make it a picture. So no its not busted, and again, the photo is one that was provided by the Prosecutors office.
Like I said, I have no understanding of any of this. I don’t know what you mean about wasn’t edited by GIMP – don’t even know what that means.
Just the messenger.
Me too, Rachel. I am just some fucking guy, but to me, the two photos look so different, they could actually even be different people. Altered. All day long.
Oops, oh God. I spelled your name wrong and I don’t have an excuse because I am a Rachel! LOL, sorry, Rachael!
NP, I understand you saying your just the messenger, Remember the old telephone game in grade shcool. That is what is happening with this case. It means the photograph was not edited with the program GIMP. Here’s the actual photos, both the color version and the black and white ones from that night, you can see the transitions of where they were just bringing the color into the photo(that is all that was done to the picture.)http://www.bagnewsnotes.com/2012/12/latest-zimmerman-black-and-white-in-color/
No!
The B&W is a copy machine generated copy of the original color digital photo taken with a cell phone by SPD Officer Wagner.
Of course, the photos match. One is a copy of the other and the manipulation, assuming it happened, occurred while the photo was in the custody, possession and control of the SPD before it was copied on the copy machine.
Did you not understand that is what this discussion is about?
What is up with that?
Except it was supplied by a cop….who has an agenda. It may have been supplied by Corey’s team but they did not produce and direct that show.
http://www.gimp.org/features/
Its a photo editing software
Good work Jun.
@mike
The photo was taken by SPD. The photo then was provided to the State which in turn is discovery, which must be provided to the defense. So the picture could of been doctored BEFORE it was turned over to the state.
See, ordinarily the police are on the side of the prosecution AGAINST the defendant. But remember the testimony of the beefy cop who said 45% of Cheorge’s face and head were covered with blood? In this case the police are on the side of the defendant, trying to undo the prosecution. That’s one of the reasons O’Mara carries on so much about his depositions; the police are agreeing that the poor man should never have been charged with a crime. So don’t look to THEM to supply the prosecution with anything useful; they’re double agents.
I am thinking along the lines as you are, double agents indeed.
I don’t know anything about this stuff – but here is a comment I found:
This is what fotoforensics software revealed when it analyzed the image taken directly from the GZ attorneys site- that it was edited with GIMP photoediting…BUSTED!
File
File Type JPEG
MIME Type image/jpeg
Exif Byte Order Big-endian (Motorola, MM)
Image Width 650
Image Height 870
Encoding Process Progressive DCT, Huffman coding
Bits Per Sample 8
Color Components 3
Y Cb Cr Sub Sampling YCbCr4:4:4 (1 1)
JFIF
JFIF Version 1.01
EXIF
Make Apple
Camera Model Name iPhone 4
Orientation Horizontal (normal)
X Resolution 72
Y Resolution 72
Resolution Unit inches
Software GIMP 2.8.2
Modify Date 2012:12:03 09:10:06
Y Cb Cr Positioning Centered
Exposure Time 1/15
F Number 2.8
Exposure Program Program AE
ISO 160
Exif Version 0221
Date/Time Original 2012:02:26 19:31:00
Create Date 2012:02:26 19:31:00
Components Configuration Y, Cb, Cr, –
Shutter Speed Value 1/15
Aperture Value 2.8
Brightness Value 1.45021059
Metering Mode Multi-segment
Focal Length 3.9 mm
Subject Area 1295 967 699 696
Flashpix Version 0100
Color Space sRGB
Exif Image Width 650
Exif Image Height 870
Sensing Method One-chip color area
Exposure Mode Auto
White Balance Auto
Scene Capture Type Standard
Sharpness Soft
Compression JPEG (old-style)
Thumbnail Offset 712
Thumbnail Length 5314
XMP
Date Time 2012:02:26 19:31:00
Date/Time Digitized 2012:02:26 19:31:00
Flash Pix Version FlashPix Version 1.0
Composite
Aperture 2.8
Flash No Flash
Shutter Speed 1/15
Thumbnail Image (Binary data 5314 bytes)
Focal Length 3.9 mm
Image Size 650×870
Light Value 6.2See Less
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2012/12/03/george-zimmermans-bloody-nose/
WOW! Great job, Rachael!
The GIMP entry seems to be only in the smaller version of the photo, not the high-resolution one on the gzlegalcase website.
When I did day-care for a living with pre-schoolers, I had a kind of art I helped them do that was very exciting for them. They would draw pictures, color them, make all kinds of designs. Then we would drop melted crayon wax on them, in droplets. I did that part because I had to use a match to melt the crayons. They would choose the colors and show me where to drop the wax.
I could make a really bloody picture of George with some red crayons. Then I could take a picture of it. It wouldn’t even take three weeks.
I’m not so sure now that it’s been photoshopped.
Excerpt from above:
Software GIMP 2.8.2
Modify Date 2012:12:03 09:10:06
Y Cb Cr Positioning Centered
Exposure Time 1/15
F Number 2.8
Exposure Program Program AE
ISO 160
Exif Version 0221
Date/Time Original 2012:02:26 19:31:00
Create Date 2012:02:26 19:31:00
At the bottom we have a create date of 2/26/2012 at 7:31 pm.
The other date, the modify date by GIMP, is 12/3/2012 at 9:10am.
I believe the modify info is related to this info dump, and not to the officer’s modification. There is no other modify info => so no photoshop.
Only the smaller photo displayed on gzlegalcase.com contains the GIMP entry and the december modification date. There is a link to the full-size version next to it:
(The absence of a modification date after 2/26 doesn’t mean anything on its own, because those entries are easily changed and leaving something like that in there would be an incredibly obvious mistake.)
If you look at the two photos side by side, you can easily see that the picture on the right is not a real photo, it is obviously an altered photo. Details in the picture on the left are modified in the picture on the right. Case closed, the photo has been altered.
Lonnie says: “If you look at the two photos side by side, you can easily see that the picture on the right is not a real photo, it is obviously an altered photo. Details in the picture on the left are modified in the picture on the right. Case closed, the photo has been altered.”
Sometimes it is hard to believe for some to believe their lying eyes Lonnie.
Even if one doesn’t believe the photo has been altered, it has to beg the question how did the distorted enlarged nose become miraculously cured back to normal size and how did Chorge put on a substantial amount of weight to fill out his face on the later official police photo taken a few hours later on the same date.
I would love for someone who doubts the photo is altered to address Chorge’s obvious physical changes in second photo.
Anyone who thinks the photo isn’t altered is not capable of seeing the differences between photo 1 and photo 2. Look at the jaw line, in photo 2 it’s elongated. The nose in photo 2 has changed it’s shape, a physical impossibility in the real world. As far as the meta data goes, there’s a whole slew of programs that can be purchased and some for free, that will allow one to alter the meta data.
His pupils look fully dilated.
I’ve read that certain ADHD medications can cause this along with alcohol, excitement, and of course not a well lit area. I find it strange his pupils didn’t react to the photo flash. Hmmm
WOW! That was all Greek to me except the “Busted!” Part! Still, that’s all that matters.
Sent from my iPod
LMAO
I wonder if Cheorge went kindergarten and simply coloured in his black and white photo LMAO
This is a 26 minute video. Trevor Dooley was denied immunity, went to trial, and was found guilty of manslaughter and some other charges. Dooley left hjs garage after James said words to him. The jury said that James was killed for nothing. Dooley’s act of leaving his garage (where he was washing his car) with a loaded gun, made him the aggressor.
The video provides testimony of forensics and reenactments.
Can GZ’s case be decided on the same basis?
thats a sad case
Dooley lost it because kids were simply playing in the park and James was just protecting the kids
In fact, I feel he deserves his sentence
You know, I think both men stuck their noses where they didn’t belong. Dooley was rather cunning. He intimidated James, and James responded. But Dooley saying that he was walking back to his house when attacked sounded too much like accusing James of being the aggressor.
So, I wonder since GZ said he was walking back to his truck when allegedly attacked, will a jury see it the same way.
Absolutely. GZ could have followed Trayvon all the way home in his vehicle if he was that concerned about crime and/or the safety of people in his community, and waited for police to check out the situation. He’ll get manslaughter at the very least. I would think that reducing the charge is OM’s sole goal. He knows as well as you and I do that GZ is guilty as hell.
Been at school all day and studying. Just got here, just looked at photo. Kinda obvious the very yellow tinged face (some kind of filter?) But the obvious no yellow flesh-color of the nose. I think this is just a sympathy ploy after the outrage for selling autographs, but it too shall backfire.
You guys and gals may want to stop for a moment and actually read the article about the photo. It was released by the Prosecution to the defense. Thats right, it is the prosecutions photo. So you may want to revise your thinkings a tad.
What is your point? What thinking needs to be revised?
Really all I am thinking is how did his nose go from looking like that at the scene to looking like totally normal at the police station for photographs shortly after – and no swelling noted the next day for the reenaction.
Anyway, not getting your point.
mie mccauley: “It was released by the Prosecution to the defense. Thats right, it is the prosecutions photo”
So the prosecution received a photo-shopped photo an unknown source? Or are you under the impression the prosecution photo-shopped this photo to make Zimmerman’s wounds appear worse than they were 4 hours later in office police photos?
The narrative is that this is a photo, taken by a police officer, then forgotten for some time. It was then emailed to the police investigators, who then turned it over to the prosecution. THEN the prosecution turned it over to the defense in discovery.
The prosecution is, therefore, in no way responsible for this photo. Even if they knew it was a fake, it was in their possession as part of the materials the police investigators delivered to them. As such, they were required to give it to the defense as is. Nor did they need to explain that the picture was altered, since, although they may have guessed it was, that guess would be part of their work product, as a theory of theirs. The defense should have had it’s own theory about it, or tried to formulate one. In which case they could have pursued the chain of custody for the item in question.
Mike McCauley, in a normal case the police work with the prosecutor to make sure the evidence can be used to convict the defendant of a crime. There was a peculiar situation in this case because the prosecutor, at the time the police “developed” or “marked” the evidence, was working for the defendant, and not working for the state. That was Wolfinger. For Wolfinger to obtain his goal of clearing Cheorge of murder, he had to make it clear to his cops (who were working toward the same goal, obviously) that they should not “give” him any evidence of murder. They should, if they could, “give” him evidence of self-defense.
The * had * none.
So there was just delay delay delay and stupid statements such as, “We have no evidence to contradict the shooter’s claim of self-defense.” We have no proof of a negative? Well then why don’t you all just turn in your badges and go home. You NEVER have proof of someone’s innocence; that’s THEIR problem.
When the shit began to hit fans all over the place, wow gee golly jimbob would you look at that THERE STARTED TO BE EVIDENCE OF INNOCENCE! Everybody had just forgotten about it like George forgot he was carrying a loaded gun.
Bwahahahahahaha! You think that makes a problem for the prosecution? Bwahahahahahahaha!
McCauley was a troll and I banned him.
No wonder he’s been banned. LOL. Any LEO who couldn’t find anything wrong with GZ’s story, where he says he shot the kid in one place and the body is found in another place, needs to return their college degrees and turn in their high school diploma as well.
LOL
That’s what Zidiots do !!
But it was given to the prosecution by the SPD, which was on the defense side from the beginning. Only things that they could NOT corrupt are uncorrupted. Like the path of the bullet, and the tapes.
What’s to revise? The photo is being used by the defense as a media opportunity. Sure, it was given by the prosecution to the defense, but look at the whole picture here. Wagner takes the pics and then downloads them to his computer and forgets about them *sure* for weeks. He emails the jpegs to Serino who then faxs the state a copy. During the last hearing West is whinning to the Judge about the digital form and the Judge says BDLR has 10 days from the last hearing. That makes it Oct 29th. BDLR says he will contact Serino on Monday to try to get them but it’s not like he can make Serino comply. The prosecution didn’t have the digital file at that time. Serino turned it over and the State passed it on to the Defense on the 29th…on the deadline. BUT why does O’Mara wait until December to raise a stink about it? Just to create a media swarm in hopes of new donations I’m guessing. They accuse the state of dragging their feet but we were on deadline with the court.
There is no blood at all coming from his nostrils yet there is blood in / on his mustache?? How’s that possible ?
I guess someone dabbed that nasty blood from that sensitive spot so Fogen looked his best?? but left the rest of the blood. Or did the middle school computer expert Fogen hired do an ooopppps
LMAo
I noticed that too
its strange how the blood is just off the tip of the nose and just appears to be hanging off the tip of his nose, instead of blood trails for the nostrils
Perhaps Wagner will come clean and just state he did it as a gag or something because there is no way that Cheorge should be glowing the color of gold, and his nose looks like rudolph the red nose reindeer
Or maybe its like Pinnochio… his lies just cause the nose to expand to the sides and bleed out the tip of the nose and hang there
Not a very original idea of Wagner’s. Maybe he got the idea to photoshop Georgie’s nose from LLMPAPA’s video of Georgie’s nose growing longer as he lies. I think the raspberry colored painted lips is a very cute added touch……. 🙂
I have found that liars all have the attitude “I think you’re so stupid you’ll believe this….” Looks like that will remain a constant.
THANK YOU @racerrodig! I’ve been WAITING for someone to say that~~> “There is no blood at all coming from his nostrils yet there is blood in / on his mustache?? How’s that possible?”
IKR! STEVIE WONDER can SEE that the blood is coming from everywhere IT’S NOT supposed to.. I mean, there is literally “NO BLOOD” inside his nostrils! NONE! I’m insulted… SMDH…
Note the Moron O’ Mara…..Make sure your computer geek is at least a freshman in HS.
First I want make it clear that I am not a GZ supported in any sense of the word. But there are a lot of Photoshop myths being put out in response to this picture. I have been a photographer and graphic designer for over 25yrs…back when Photoshop was Pagemaker. No one can look at this pic and say it has been shopped in any way. Not to say it hasnt been. But if it has it was done very well. There is no way to look at a picture on a “pixel level” to determine manipulation. All you would see is a bunch of squares either way. So thats just silly. All you would see is picture like this:
What is more important is what the defense did not release. The EXIF data would show exactly the time the photo was taken. And would have added credibility to the photo. EXIF data look like this:
So why not include this information?
With out seeing the original, full definition file its very hard to conclude this was shopped. As a supported of Trayvon and his family I would love more than anything to prove this photo has been manipulated, but honestly I cant. The only strange thing I see in it may be a touch of noise reduction which may have been done in camera. And the light on his lip which may be from an alternate light source such as flash light or a cars head lights. Otherwise this photo seem on the level.
That being said. What doe this photo really prove? Nothing. It proves Trayvon defended himself. My 12yr old could have done more damage than this.
I disagree. I play around a lot with photo programs and also have worked in art classroom Mac labs with HS students who were quite good at photo manipulation with Photoshop. The photo shows several signs of being manipulated just under the cut on the nose – there is blurring and size manipulation across the nose and cheeks there. I’m not sure about the blood, but it does look a little strange, but this may be because of flash or lighting.
Download the photo from gzlegalcase. Go to imageedited.com. Drag the photo to the analyze area.
It will give you the exif data.
It gives it a ” questionable” for photoshopped.
I tested the site with a picture I’d made myself and one that was photoshopped. Mine came back as not photoshopped, the other as photoshopped.
Thanks for bringing a little sanity into matters. I find it hard to believe that Wagner manipulated the image for GZ’s advantage. What should be his motive for doing so?
But strictly, does Wagner belong to the officers that considered Serino’s Capias unjustified, according to O’Mara?
It’s still odd that the shape of the nose is so different than four hours later. And I have to admit this is an interesting comparison. But I can’t see anything special either. If I look at the properties of the file in Gimp,
Thanks, Mirre, interesting link. I have to keep the issue in mind for a specialist friend in the field, concerning what is doable, at least theoretically without leaving traces.
But Van Johnson, I find the comparison of Photoshop and PageMaker slightly odd. I liked PageMaker but obviously use QuarkXPress for the tasks I did with PageMaker before..
I find the latest motion by defense concerning William Erwin much more interesting. Obviously they somehow have to face the fact that the screams George reenacted sound pretty different. Let’s see what happens in that context.
So George had a slightly bloody nose with a tiny spot of blood on the nose’s tip. I know some people that get a nosebleed all the time sometimes seemingly from being over exited. My brother once hit me hard on my nose, it broke but it didn’t even bleed. The image is much ado about nothing for me.
Van Johnson, GOOD FOR YOUR TWELVE-YEAR OLD!
For a while now I have been saying Cheorge’s injuries are not evidence of anything affecting his guilt or innocence.
He got hurt during his Sunday evening hunt-and-kill project? Oh well, them’s the risk of any good ole’ Southern Boy sport. Even if you want to tackle a greased pig or shoot a deer in the woods, even if you want to go kill some kid in the rain, whatever it is, you ought to bring a little bit of iodine with you in case you get a boo boo, and man up and stop crying about it. Cause once you get home the Missus is sure to put on some big ole butterfly bandaids and give you a kiss-make-all-better. Right?
I think this photo is being used for the prospective jurors.
Can the photo be admitted as evidence by the defense? If so, I expect the officer who took it has to identify the when and where. And then be impeached by the prosecution which will ask about how it was photoshopped and with the possibility of a rebuttal witness who will explain exactly how it was photoshopped. Then the officer is charged with objection, gets a couple of weeks behind a desk and then is back in the field.
Actually, MOM said that the photo is not a game-changer — its only significance is that it shows vivid injuries.
http://news.yahoo.com/bloody-photo-trayvon-martins-killer-released-200804168.html
Xena says: Actually, MOM said that the photo is not a game-changer — its only significance is that it shows vivid injuries.
The photo should be a huge game changer in that someone (SPD) went to a great deal of trouble to distort reality to make a dead teen a thug and protect a the killer. I also think it is a game-changer as far as MOM goes. He is a sleaze if he knows this is photo-shopped and exceedingly stupid if he doesn’t I’m not paid big bucks nor do I have a law degree, but I can look at the photo and compare to the others in evidence and know it’s a phony.
Do you think the reason MOM is downplaying the photo is because he realizes it has been photo-shopped?
Can this distorted (photo-shopped) photo be used by the prosecution in court to show intent to obstruct justice?
@JM. I agree in regards to the photo being a game-changer in tampering with evidence. O’Mara doesn’t think it’s a game-changer because apparently, he thinks that he can support that GZ had reasonable fear of great bodily harm when he killed Trayvon.
Well, being hit in the nose and killing the person 2 minutes later for hitting you in the nose is not self-defense.
If the defense attempts to enter the photo into evidence, I suspect that the State will object and give reasons for their objection. If Judge Nelson allows the photo to be entered into evidence, the State then has opportunity to call an expert to show that it’s been altered.
I still wonder why GZ had that silly look on his face with his eyebrows raised. Was he getting ready to cry because he was going to jail? (snicker)
Xena: If Judge Nelson allows the photo to be entered into evidence, the State then has opportunity to call an expert to show that it’s been altered.
All they have to do is show side-by-side pictures of Zimmerman that Wagner took and later official pictures at police station where Zimmerman looks more than a few pounds heavier, a rounded face and no swollen nose. I just hope the prosecution is more clever than MOM.
Xena: “I still wonder why GZ had that silly look on his face with his eyebrows raised. Was he getting ready to cry because he was going to jail?
He looked like he was trying to hide a smirk to me. Confident because he was surrounded by his buds in the police department and he knew his father could use his influence to “make this go away.” If nothing else Zimmerman is an “actor” of sorts.
Actually, my hope is this. O’Mara and West will cry “broken nose broken nose” on opening statements. Then when it comes down to entering the photographs, prosecution will say, “Your Honor we stipulate that the defendant’s nose was broken.” Huh? Whaaa? Uh…
“Yes, Your Honor, we stipulate that Mr. Zimmerman’s nose was broken. In fact, that is the reason he shot Trayvon Martin. He was so angry that a skinny black kid successfully threw him off when he came at him, he was overcome with rage and he pulled out his gun and shot the youngster. In fact his own lawyer has already admitted it. He said, ‘I think my client was reacting to having his nose broken.’ The State has no objection to this assertion and the logical conclusions that follow.”
Remember Marissa Alexander, charged by Corey. Corey said Alexander did not kill for fear of her life, but in anger. And the defense and prosecution both had admitted that Alexander had been repeatedly beaten by the man she was angry at. Very simple case: Get hurt, get angry, shoot. It is NOT self-defense.
I actually think even though its photoshopped it should be let in. With no trace at all on Trayvon’s hands and sleeves of any type of attack, and the evidence of George’s past scheming, it just gonna look like more scheming in court because it is what it is
I am no lawyer but my guess is all Omara can do is state that that is the picture, it appears bloody. Then Bernie comes in and states that the defendant has claimed it was caused by the victim but there is no dna at all on the victims hands plus sleeves and the defendant claimed there was blood all over him and he was being suffocated with a bloody nose and head banged. I’d even go so far as to say that the pic looks photoshopped and have an expert look at it, because there is something off with the picture, and how it got into the evidence.
Personally, I doubt it ever will be. He’s just putting it out there now to try to, as you said, sway potential jurors and the public in general. After Z’s disgusting attempt at selling autographs that made the public sich, he’s trying to garner sympathy for Z.
People who are not already involved in following this case, are not going to look at that photo and say “Gee! Let me send him some money.”
What sensible people will say is, “Gee! And he didn’t go to the hospital. What’s wrong with that fool?”
I think this is for their fundraising effort to excite his cult
It certainly is, because it damn sure is not for the case
I’m sure they’re about orgasmic about now over this jewel.
Cheorge’s picture is being used in nose porn. Porn-again nose porn, though. God’s plan. See how stiff and swollen and sore it is? [heavy breathing] oh nose, oh nose, oh oh oh…NOSE!
LOL Malisha – Chorge’s picture is being used in nose porn. I said the first time I saw Chorge’s altered picture with the “prominent” nose it was obscene. I meant this on a porn level obscene rather than an outrageous exaggerated level.
Have anyone thought of how did he take a front facing picture of Zimmerman but the angle of the picture is of a downward facing picture of a nose, the angle is off.
Where is there any sign of the car door / window / door frame ??
You can see the frame along the top of the photo, above GZ.
I’ll look again.
Professor: Regarding the broken, not broken debate:
If the defence wanted to prove a break, could they not have an expert X-ray or whatever to show that the nose had been broken at some time.
I am thinking that the prosecution may have wanted more medical information in case the defence does come up with someone who says the killer did have a broken nose at one time. During a Piers Morgan interview, Junior states that his nose is still broken (that was about 3 months ago).
If he did not have it treated, would the defence be able to introduce an expert who LATER treated the nose issue.
LMAO
Jr is lying
We all seen his jailhouse pics of Fogen Zimmernuts
his nose is perfectly straight and he was breathing properly when Fogen told the lie about Trayvon being 35 and he did not know if he was armed or not
then Omara pulled him away because Cheorge dropped a gold nugget there
If the defense thought they could do better than “likely broken” then we would have high resolution x-rays of every microscopic crack in GZ’s nose from every angle. Sure, that would not settle the exact date and circumstances, but do you think they would give up the “Zimmerman’s nose totally really broken for real” headlines?
A person is under no obligation to hold back from breaking the nose of an armed stranger who threatens him. A broken nose on Cheorge’s face means nothing. If I go kill somebody and I get a broken nose doing it, I’m not gonna complain.
How long does a broken nose take to heal, anyway? I broke my collar bone when I was in my late 20’s, and it took 8 weeks for the bone to be completly solid again.
I don’t know how long it takes a bone to heal and this is why I thought Junior made that comment months after the supposed injury. Someone down thread may be able to help us.
Bones heal between 6 to eight weeks if your in reasonable health
That part if the nose is cartiledge; not bone. I suspect it heals quicker but NOT in 2 days!
Sent from my iPod
If GZs nose was indeed broken, it would definitely show a healed spot in an X-ray after the fact. I took a fall a few years ago, and because of the soreness I sustained after my rib cage met piano, I felt I had a small fracture on a rib, but it wasn’t severe enough to have it checked out and nothing would have been done about it anyway. A couple of years later, I had another reason to have an x-ray, and sure enough, the doctor asked me before he proceeded to explain the new injury, did I know I’d had an old fractured rib? . . .
Can the court order an x-ray for GZ to clear up the mystery about his injury?
Two Sides: “Can the court order an x-ray for GZ to clear up the mystery about his injury?”
I am not sure it would be beneficial. If GZ had a broken nose previously in his life or even on 02/26/2012, it would show up as an old fracture of undetermined age. It couldn’t prove or disprove Chorge’s claims.
I do wonder how Chorge was able to self-diagnose a broken nose that night. Aside from the apparent photo-shopped picture MOM put on his website, his nose looked as normal as pre-killing pictures and he did not seem to be in pain during police interviews or his reenactment video.
It would be interesting to know what his physician’s assistant saw the next day that led her to diagnose Chorge with possible broken nose for which she referred him to an ENT specialist which Chorge did not follow up on. Wonder why?
If his nose looked like that and a licensed Paramedic saw it, she/he would’ve and SHOULD have noted it as deformed on the PCR! This is a load of crap! If the medic admits to recognizing that photo as GZ that night, he needs to lose his credentials!
Sorry, wrong link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pR_E9vvC2K0
Malissa Harris-Perry nailed it on the head.
Marshalette, thanks for the link. That’s the core of the story, what makes it deeply human for me. Without GZ’s twisted perceptions Trayvon would still be alive. Something even Serino realized.
Attempts to add something extraneous to the larger plot, like helpers in the back or George the law student trying to commit a perfect murder with initial preparations, ultimately detract from this deeply and horribly human core of the story. There is no need really to add anything to the plot apart from the fact that George thought he knew exactly who Trayvon was: “a suspect”. Look at the long trail of older case numbers the police pulled that night, busy with finding something to take his fingerprints. Confronted with the larger scenario they quickly joined his assumptions.
The whole strategy of defense will be an effort to turn back time to that night: George had to do what he did, since Trayvon proved something even worse as a burglar a potential killer.
A couple of days ago a US Zimmerman supporter, a retired man of the US military had this to say in a private mail:
I am troubled by the realization that I ignored signs for his ultimately deeply biased perception for almost a decade. They were perceptible, but I choose to ignore them and not jump to a conclusion, a judgment. … Almost ignored them, at least they made me hesitant to find a publisher for his books.
To transform his statement. There are quite a few White Germans that hate blacks, asylum seekers and Germans with Turkish roots. So why shouldn’t there be a few black nutcases too? Does the US not have many White Angry Americans too?
@leander.. Sorry for the late reply… I just got back to Saudi Arabia after a long two months in Jordan and finally settled back into the routine of things.
George Zimmerman is going down. He profiled Trayvon Martin assuming he was a thug out to commit a crime, but he was wrong. I ponder is he living in regret and worried about the inevitable 25 to life sentence he will receive. I envision as he awaits his fate, his mind is consumed with the thoughts, “Of all the Black kids I could have profiled, stalked, and murdered… why did I have to choose one who had loving parents, no criminal record, and whose death the police were unable to brush under the rug.” George messed up big time and he will have to lay in the bed he made and reap what he sowed.
There are crazy Blacks and Whites in this world. But, this forum proves that there are some sane ones on both sides also. And we are all anxiously awaiting the bell of justice to sound on George Zimmerman. It’s not a matter of if, but when.
apparently rzjr is on insession facebook making more of an idiot of himself!! omg will he stop at anything for attention>???
Heck, the prosecution should have released the HD color photos a long time ago. It is unethical for the state to withhold evidence… and probably illegal to boot.
following with my nose 😉
The prosecutors should simply release the HD color photos to the press. It shouldn’t be hard to prove that the defense doctored the photo. Funny that they would provide a fuzzy black and white if they could show minimal or non-existent injuries. MOM is in big trouble if the picture is photoshopped.
The photo, as is, came from the prosecution. If it was doctored, it was probably done by the person who took the picture.
Or his buddies in the police force.
Then apparently the prosecution isn’t doing its job. Why would they release a photo if they believed it might be photo-shopped? I’m guessing that you think the detective who took the picture doctored it. Why would he do that?
“Then apparently the prosecution isn’t doing its job. Why would they release a photo if they believed it might be photo-shopped? I’m guessing that you think the detective who took the picture doctored it. Why would he do that?”
Ummm the prosecution released the photo they received as evidence. If it is photo-shopped it is the work of the person who released it to the prosecution. Maybe the detective doctored the photo to make Chorge’s injuries worse than they were because he is a shady person who did not think Chorge should be charged with murder for killing a black boy. Maybe the detective is a racist. Maybe the detective passed it onto someone else who doctored the photo who was on Team Zimmerman and doesn’t mind his killing a black teen.
The possibilities are endless as to what motivated a person to photo-shop Chorge’s picture but the one thing that is for sure, multipe pictures of Chorge a few hour later show no such distortion of his nose and a much fuller-faced Chorge. Same holds true during taped interviews of Chorge and the next day reenactment video. Nose normal. Fuller faced Chorge.
Also the prosecution is required to turn over ALL evidence to the defense, even the “iffy” stuff.
Sent from my iPod
They’re setting them up. The just “returned” what Moron O’ Mara already had. Everyone knows what Fogen really looked like that night by the evidence pictures. So 8 months later a picture that the defense (SPD) had, altered, copied in B & W, released B & W pic, then says, “..oh, here’s the color version..” thinks it won’t be questioned.
Well….they mentioned it back in April & released the B & W in the 1st evidence dump. The B & W version, despite being taken by a police officer was never turned over as the color original at any time. He stated he deleted it…..why ?
The prosecution is setting them up for a fall and O’ Mara and Fogen are not smart enough to see it. Besides, these issues stem from the lies from day 1. It comes down to the fact that they thought this would never get past the “…gee Fogen, you’re the hero. There’s gonna be a parade in your honor on Sunday and you’ll get the keys to the city”
@racerodig – How is the prosecution setting up the defense for a fall regarding the picture. (Nothing I would like better than to see MOM flat on his face, literally and figuratively)
It’s a forest & trees scenario.
The picture is taken by Wagner the cop. He transfers it from his cell phone (legal original evidence mind you) to his computer then deletes it from his phone (destruction of evidence) At this point anyone that has a copy can alter it as the original is gone and no comparison can easily be made. Or so they think.
Without any thought to the future, they alter this and release a B & W copy that shows his “swollen” nose. The damage is now done and irreversible. They never thought this case would go this far as heaven forbid, any one of them says “…what about all those glossies taken in the cop shop that night” No, that would require forethought. Didn’t Fogen say….”..um, wait, they took all these pictures that night…” No, he’s a full fledged, flaming moron, just look at the alleged reenactment and is more interested in being made to look the victim despite all evidence and proof preexisting.
Evidence gets dumped and the color picture is given up by the officer who at this point has 0 documentation as to where it’s been sent to, who altered it and whatever to the prosecution. Everyone knows what is happening, just like the King riding down the street naked in his fine new garments that are invisible.
Even though the prosecution “gave” this picture up, they had nothing to do with it’s being created, altered, or being send anywhere.
Now it comes to the “I double dog dare ya” as to how the defense uses it. The prosecution had nothing to do with it for months. Who worked it over ??? It has to be the defense as the SPD did not want Fogen charged. The SPD come under the heading “the defendant(s)” in my book.
If Moron O’ Mara was smart (right !) he’d have stated wayyyyyy back about the B & W picture….”A hahahahahahaha….are we on Candid Camera………where’s Alan Funt ?? Is Ashton Kutcher around, I know, pshaw….you guys, come on April Fools aside”
No, he seems to think, well, he doesn’t think in my opinion. He’s got damage control issues that cannot be resolved. I do expert reports & witness testimony for several lawyers and all of them are laughing at O’ Mara. The Professor posted his commandments for lawyers and these guys have broken all of them for the most part.
Never lie…..sorry……..never lie…….ever. Credibility is paramount here.
How on God’s Green Earth does the defense state this picture is real and accurate when there are how many in the police station that were taken not to mention a freaking video reenactment AND video interviews in which there are no signs at all of what this altered picture shows !!
He also walked around in the police station being taped and not a sign of nose injury !! This comes under the heading…
I’ll take “Stupid Moronic Lying Racist Murderers and their Deceitful Lawyers” for $1,000,000,000.00 Alex.
Good video of Melissa Harris-Perry discussing the death of Jordan Davis in the context of Trayvon Martin’s. http://24wired.tv/58098/harris-perry-this-is-no-country-for-young-black-men/
O’Mara should have gotten out of this a long time ago…He’s stuck like doggy doo to a shoe!
Definitely photoshopped! I’ve seen people do a lot better than what was done here! O’Mara should be really embarrassed right about now!
I still have this theory that the reason O’Mara and West are doing what they’re doing (which under normal circumstances would seem very embarrassing indeed) is that this case is not going to be treated like other cases. I think all the prosecutors in Florida, even Corey, would have been happy to let George get away with murder but for the fact that they COULDN’T once the case hit the big-time. Whereas the State can’t just “throw” the case, it can allow an unconscionably lenient “plea deal” to be made that it then defends by saying the public pressure to exonerate George was so great that they couldn’t risk a trial. My hope is that two things will prevent such a cover-up from being mutually arranged: (1) Continued interest in the federal investigation of the SPD, to prevent the protection of the SPD from going forward no matter what happens; and (2) Judge Nelson being a real judge and a genuine adherent to the rule of law so that she would not accept an unconscionably “free” deal for someone accused of Murder-2. In that regard, what will make the plea deal FAIL if it is corruptly entered into will be this: THE SELF-DEFENSE hearing. Once Judge Nelson hears the self-defense claim, she will see that the story doesn’t wash, and then she will certainly wonder why there should be a “slap on the wrist” plea deal in a murder case. I think she’s a true blue.
Maybe Omar wants to scare the spd into pleading the 5th during the trail
OMG! I just saw the photoshopped fake a55 broken nose. Who does O’Mara think he’s fooling? O’Mara needs to be run out of town..tonight!
bwa ha ha ha ha ha
hey lady did you see LLMPapa’s pic?? i tweeted it too!! LOLOL hey so i’m looking for RZjr on insession facebook, i’m gonna give him the spankin his stepdaddy never did!
Yes. I tweeted it too. Unbelievable. O’Mara let greed get in the way of common sense!
shannoninmiami says:
December 3, 2012 at 9:42 pm
i’d like to bang rzjr in the head and see him in diapers, b/c of all the diarrhea coming out of his mouth!
DITTO the dieper should be over there heads.
I’d like to spoon feed Junior — without checking the temperature of the food first.
Where is the blood all over his forehead where is the 45 precent!
BAM!
Well, to enhance the broken nose part they photo shopped the rest of the blood off so as not to be a distraction.
So the EMT says blood covered “about 45%” of his face. NOT “about 50%” but “about 45%”? Ain’t that a bit weird?
Yep sounds like they or he was in on the cover up too
following
One of the funniest exchanges from Cheorge when he was being questioned was, “How did he bang your head, what did he — was he grabbing your ears?” ANSWER: “I don’t know.”
Another prize: “I need to know HOW he was running, was he jogging, full-on run, trotting?” ANSWER: “I don’t know.” [Later, on Hannity: “skipping”]
Oh Lord, he tells a tale, Oh Lord he sure tells a tale. 😉
He’s only said 2 things we can’t dispute
1) “…then I got out of my schruck..”
2) “..that’s when I aimed my gun and fired one shot…”
To be honest is his name really Cheroge ?
Judge Judy has something to say about it, and a person who is a relationship expert has something to say about it. What do they say? Anytime a person starts off a sentence with “To be honest with you ..” they are lying.
As Judge Judy replies, “No. I want you to tell me a lie.”
That, and “Trust me…”
Oh yeah. That’s another good one.
My favorite: “To be honest with you, until he did that, I had forgotten I was carrying my gun.”
The killer’s “I don’t know” seems to mean, “Hmm … I haven’t yet come up with a story to cover that aspect yet – but I might come up with one later, and I’ll let you know.”
I have 3 different programs as well and the picture was indeed photoshopped! Obstruction of justice at it’s finest. You also have to wonder why the blood on the tip of Zimmerman’s nose is dry and crusty, while the blood on his lip seems new and fresh?
Because he just kissed a vampire who just fed. It might have been ShelLIE.
Or, Shellie was dressed as Geisha thus smearing her semi painted lips onto his 😛 SMH! What a guy!
another odd thing is the nose and the blood appears out of focus with the rest of the picture… it just seems a lil off…
notice how the blood is just smeared onto the centre of the tip of his nose? The blood is just dabbed onto the mustache and there is a weird blood smear at the right of his lip
I feel its photoshopped too and the fact that the officer found it in his email weeks later brings the pic into question
Found it in his email? Really? That might mean that he sent it to “someone else” – the killer or his friends? – and they sent back the photo shopped version.
It’s hard for me to wrap my head around such fraudulent behavior, but I do realize that it’s within the realm of possibility.
I hadn’t heard that the cop “found it in his email.” And I’d sure appreaciate a reference for that fact! Thanks.
You mean like ShelLIE who put knuckle band aids on GZ’s head and between his eyes trying to make it look like he was really injured badly?
GZ left the police department without bandages. He apparently went to his physician the next day without bandages. Medical instructions were to keep clean with soap and water.
BUT, when he had to do the re-enactment, here comes the big-ass band aids that he admitted to Singleton were put on by ShelLIE.
Can we say “con job”?
But what about the COP who “found it in his email weeks later”? How would it be found in an email, unless he had sent it out and later got “it” back?
groans – Wagner had the photo in his phone and forgot about it for three weeks. He e-mailed it in.
The cop snapped the photo with his cell phone, right? He probably then sent it to his own e-mail. But how could you “forget” that you took a photo for 3 weeks. That doesn’t wash for me. No one forgets they took a photo on a crime scene, even if they considered it to be a self-defense scene at the time.
Wagner states he downloaded it that evening to his dept. issued laptop and deleted the pics from his phone. Boy, he was in a rush to get that freespace back on his phone from those 2 pics. I never read anything about an email that I recall. During court I think I remember someone saying something along the lines of it was emailed to them and then printed and faxed.
It’s in Wagner’s written report. He wrote that he received an email from Serino saying that he had no photos of GZ’s injuries. Wagner then emailed him the photo that he had taken of GZ’s face.
What I question is, if Serino had no photos of GZ’s injuries, and they were having daily meetings about not charging GZ, then those making the decision not to charge GZ hadn’t seen the photos either so what did they base their decision on?
Great article, great comparisons….pictures and Georgie’s ever changing stories.
During the three weeks that the cop had the pix on his computer, there were DAILY MEETINGS about the case?!?
That;s called “Fine Tuning” and “Awaiting Approval”
@Prof
The blog is mentioned regarding this post
https://www.facebook.com/#!/JusticeforTrayvon
Fogens brother said this won’t happen “..on my watch..” Hmmmm just like Fogen. What watch exactly is he referring to and who put him on that watch ??
Okay…new info makes you try to find old info and now I have a million tabs opened and my head is spinning. I’m just going to type a few thoughts at random so please forgive.
1) http://via.me/-7iah80k The photo side by side with the SPD photos show an normal colored Z and an orange Z with bright red blood on his lips. If you normalize the saturation of color it takes half of the OMG factor away. The coloring of the smear stain on his left side appears as if he touched his lips then touched that area AND his nose. The coloring is lighter. That makes sense because he asked the first guy if there was blood on his face. if you think your nose is bleeding you reach up and touch it, but it is dark outside so you can’t tell yourself.
2) I’m not certain it was photoshopped, but there are some who would be able to tell us if it was. That would be the neighbors that Wagner showed it to that evening from his phone. *pg 18 of 184 (Before he downloaded the pics to his computer and deleted them from his phone.) Reading all the reports I know one person said they recognized Z as the neighborhood watch guy. *pg 22 of 284. Too bad though Wagner can’t remember who it was. I don’t know when Wagner did this phone pic quiz to the neighborhood. Was it when he was asked to be security for Serino to go talk to witnesses? If so, does Serino remember? *pg 18 of 284 Serino told SAO he was not aware of Wagner taking pictures. Maybe the State needs to go back around the neighborhood and find out if anyone recalls the pic being the same as shown to them that night.
3) *pg 8 of 284 Officer Lynch saw Z from the exit of the police car and into the interview room. When Z wanted to wash up Lynch reminded Smith to get pictures of the “small” cuts. He noticed no injury to the nose. No injury. We all saw him enter the station on the famous ABC tapes. No swollen nose there. No swollen nose at 11:15 when D. Smith came to the station to takes all of the pics. (After Z cleaned up.)
4) The next day, the video of him wander around the station and up the stairs alone with Osterman in tow shows sunglasses hanging from his shirt. (He has bandages on his head but not on his nose like he does in the reenactment.) Come on! The weight of sunglasses going across you nose if it was broken, swollen or smashed WOULD HURT LIKE HELL.
5) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_10eZPNV14 7 second video. Only showing it to see how the sign wobbles back and forth.
My thoughts are he hit the sign in the dark chasing Trayvon. It is right at face level. You see him walk by the sign in the reenactment video and it’s even with his face. He mumbles about maybe it was a sign or something. He gives partial looks into the truth. I think the sign was part of the chase at some point. If he fell backwards he could have whacked his head on something. This could have made him drop the keychain flashlight. If he’s midchase he’s not going to worry about picking them up.The marks across his face are straight lines. Nose to forehead and about an inch over. The sign wobbles. That would create the second scratch identical but one inch over on his forehead. If you scrape a sign along your nose it will scrape the skin like it shows in the pics (on the right side and tip of his nose) and dig into the skin when it hits hard bone/cartilage on the bridge of his nose. If you have ever whacked your shin on a bedrail or coffee table you know how it is barely scraped but instantly it leaves a welt. That is what we see on Z’s nose. The welt had already gone down before getting to the station that night. No medic put ice on it. They have cold packs if needed. They didn’t feel the need.
6) I hadn’t noticed the trash bag on the ground until @You all have thoughtful comments mentioned it. Funny thing is it wasn’t part of evidence and it’s not there in the pics taken the following day. Guess someone did a clean up.
7) Has anyone else noticed how much debris is shown on those police photos under the tree area. I’m not sure if it is leaves or mulch but it is everywhere as if it was kicked up. Struggle/chase evidence? It’s not around any of the trees on the other side.
Sorry, too many thoughts. Any ideas?
To help with the million tabs problem
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/tabkit-2nd-edition/
assuming you’re on Firefox of course.
Colour-groups tabs in parent/child groups in rows, and they never scroll off the end of the tab bar. So you don’t lose any.
Lots of significant thoughts. And at a more detailed level than I can address without a lo) of research (which you’ve obviously done).
Thanks for your thought provoking contribution. I hope some of our more factually-fluent folks will follow up!
Someone pointed out to me that there is a poop bag dispenser on the pool of the trash can unit. What I think is a torn piece of the garbage bin liner might just be a loose, small poop holder bag.
correction — on the “pole of the trash can unit”
http://dothprotesttoomuch.com/2012/12/03/jeepers-creepers-whered-you-get-those-peepers-george-or-lack-thereof/
Check out this comparison by the bloggers here.
Deborah, Another great site! I especially loved the statement……..”The blood on George’s lip is more consistant with that of Geisha lipstick…..”……….ROTFL
That was a great comparison.
George Zimmerman’s jacket was zipped up in the pic. His jacket was open when he got out of the police car.
so, he zips it up for the pics?? he’s a model? wtf>>
where is the bloodddddddddddddddd from the noseeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!! nowayjose!!
i’d like to bang rzjr in the head and see him in diapers, b/c of all the diarrhea coming out of his mouth!
Shannon, that’s the amazing thing — HE WAS HANDCUFFED when placed in the back of the police car, and was handcuffed in the police station video.
I also question how the EMTs washed blood off his hands with them being handcuffed? Oh heck — let’s go back earlier — how did Smith handcuff GZ with bloody hands?
For some reason, your question reminds me of an elephant joke.
Q: How many elephants can fit into a Volkswagen?
A: 5, 2 in the front, 2 in the back, and 1 in the glove compartment. The trunk is full because it has a duck in it. Quack! Quack!
I’m going to take a time out and go gangnam style!
Here’s some stress relief.
totally cool, i like the evil sound.
🙂 Yeah. I really like Einstein.
Must be magic. Like Houdini or something. That’s it…he’s an escape artist…..but then he couldn’t get away from a teenager.
Yep….hey Fogen…you got some ‘splainin to do.
@Xena
I love this.
GZs shirt is perfectly tucked in at the station. Yet, he was shimmying on the grass earlier. If he tucked his shirt in, there would be blood evidence of that having happened. Because there was not, when did he tuck his shirt in — especially when arms cuffed behind his back.
I think it’s time the press start confrointing these cops on camera
Yeah. Prolly him and Tim Smith stopped for donuts.
the wonders of modern medicine
according to the chain of command, if the pics are real LOL
Officer Smith gave Cheorge a rhinoplasty nose job before the station
and voila
the nose is no longer glowing gold and rose like in the recent pic LMAO
Houdini like stuff. No cuff’s…..too tuff.
Maybe it was unzipped after the EMT checked him out.
The EMT’s might have unzipped it to check him for injuries but if they did, they sure didn’t put that in their report. Additionally, I would think that extra caution is required when physically changing the appearance of a suspect who just shot and killed an unarmed 17 yr old.
The SPD is weird. In my neck of the woods when a suspect is injured, they take them to the ER with police present and medical professionals “handle” the evidence.
In the same manner, SPD should have handed GZ a jail jump suit to put on, and immediately taken his clothes. Not only did they allow him to sit in the same clothes he had on when killing Trayvon, but they took the cuffs off him and allowed him in the washroom un-escorted.
That’s too much trust for LE to put into someone who just killed a person.
Xena – Ament to that.
What has struck me as very odd too is that, according to Brown’s timeline, they waited four hours in the police station before taking their photos.
Why not photograph him first, and then interview him? That would make more sense to me.
Well Groans, here’s another one for you. I just had a revelation moment. Wagner said that he took a picture of Trayvon’s face and GZ’s face with his cell phone because there was no digital camera available. Now, keep that in mind.
The following morning after Tracy Martin called in a missing person’s report, officers came to his house with the picture of Trayvon’s face. Now, keep that in mind.
If Serino and team were able to get the picture of Trayvon’s face by the next morning, why did Wagner keep the picture of GZ’s face for what — 3 wks? Fishy, fishy. Naughty, naughty.
He is zipped in the newly released image before the Paramedics fixed him up. They probably unzipped it when they were washing the blood off of his arms.
Wouldn’t you expect the cops to unzip the jacket when they frisked him at the crime scene?
Don’t they frisk before putting suspects in the back of the cop car?
shit, this is addictive:
According to the records, mcave, he was allowed to wash himself by his SPD guardians.I looked into somewhere else around here as far as it left record traces for us the hoi palloi. 😉
As I remember it, and please note, I do not ever trust my memory on matters, and don’t have time to check now, Sergeant Smith only remembers he is allowed to go to the bathroom/ restroom/loo, but not that he is allowed to wash himself, but others seem to. Or to complicate matters they notice that he is cleaned up after he returns and in hindsight connect matters accordingly. That’s how the defense would argue if it became a serious issue. Although considering their “good SPD investigation” strategy they may not want to pay attention on the issue. We of course have the additional problem we only have some type of summary of the SAO reports and not the whole interviews.
Which leads to the question, does defense have access to the complete recorded interview, while we haven’t, I assume they were recorded, if not I have to conclude, that they were done superficially. …
Why blood on the arms? Shit this is addictive. I am aware of the missing blood on Trayvon’s sleeves, but I do not understand, why not his whole hands, and not simply his fingernail clippings were analyzed. So please explain why the sleeves are of special importance in this scenario? I always wondered in fact.
Ok, sleeves, what exactly did I do to that word, it caught my attention while pushing the “post comment” button.
Answer nothing, and now I shut up again. I am paranoid of not checking my comments for spelling errors. Fact is i never do before I push the button.
I checked the metadata on the photo. It says it was taken at 7:31 pm. So that was before GZ was checked by EMT. That could explain why the jacket was unzipped in the police station video.
The problem I’m having with his jacket being zipped when this picture was taken is W3’s testimony of seeing a man with a white shirt on top. She is adamant and doesn’t waver in her testimony of seeing a guy with a white t-shirt. If what she see’s is Zim’s shirt…how? If his jacket is zipped prior to being cleaned up, it’s back to the white t-shirt guy.
I really would like to see the SPD’s prior murder investigation’s photographs and evidence.
I really would like to see the SPD’s next murder investigation’s photographs and evidence.
After all the photographs and evidence from the Trayvon Martin murder seemed a bit…shall we say…
Remember Sesame Street? “One of these things is NOT like the others!” 😛 😎 😛
GZ’s right nostril (left-side of the pic) is higher than his left-side nostril. Speaking of the left-side, GZ has no shoulder in Wagner’s pic.
Xena, where’s Wagner’s pic without the shoulder?
I’m getting all mixed up now. We need a slide show like, “What I did on my summer vacation.”
In the link, the pic that Wagner took is on your right. That’s the one where GZ has no shoulder — which would be to your left.
Nostril…what nostril? That was one of the first thinks that struck me when the black and white was released. Dude went from turned down to turned up within hours. The photo reminded me of looking at someone’s face in a rounded carnival mirror.
Did they use a head vise to squeeze that noggin????
no, look at the good pic on gzlegalBS.com they have the high res pic there!
His nose went from normal to swollen over 200% & back to normal in how many minutes ?? Does Moron O’ Mara actually think any one will buys this latest round.
Two things
1. That is a horrible Photoshop
2. It is painful to contemplate the brazen, depraved and callous degree of corruption of these “watchers” displayed, all in the hopes of stealing justice from this victim. The feds need to do something and they need to be blunt and harsh.
Amen to that.
ditto
Count me in on that!
@Tzar, I agree with you 110% and, they need to come down on the SPD right along with Wolfinger very hard. Robert Zimmerman senior should be included in that bunch as well. after all, they were working on his behalf to make this go away. they all know Zimmerman is guilty as sin and yet they tried to just let him go with no questions asked. the dirty B*****DS, every last one of them. I just pray the jury will be more intelligent than the Casey Anthony jury was. I also hope the state don’t drop the ball on this one either.
Haaaaaahaa. Knuckle head knuckle nose down to your toes
Busted!!!! J&J should sue him and shel lie for fraud -accessories after the fact—two flunky monkeys!!
Xena….GZ’s nose looks more elongated too from thr bridge to the tip.
Yep. You know how you can resize photos by dragging them with the mouse? Looks like Wagner dragged the photo down to make room for a big lump. GZ lost at least 10 lbs off his face that way too.
Xena…There was something funny looking about his left earlobe (right side of picture). So I went back to the thouprotesttoomuch.com site to compare the photoshopped picture to the one taken at the police station and I think that you are absolutely correct about elongating his nose and face. Compare how long his left earlobe is in the photoshopped picture to his left earlobe is in the unphotoshopped picture. It’s definately longer too.
I’ve altered the colors in the side by side to make the red swath, I’ve circled, more visible. http://tinyurl.com/co9ouag
You’ll note that this same red swath running from eye to eye, is stretched downward and the bridge of the nose is narrowed.
Xena. Look at his eyes in your link. In the picture on the left side you can plainly see that he is cross eyed.
I noticed that at his first hearing when he looked towards the judge. In his jailhouse phone calls to ShelLIE, he said that they would not allow him to have his contacts.
Notice the different shades of blood, in case nobody mentioned it. The colors man…………the colors, oh and the sharpness of the drop on the end of the nose…the maroon drop. What a maroon as they say…..
if you look closely I believe they applied a rose color to the nose with a photoshop smear and the blood they used, it looks very digital, like it was drawn in
No doubt about it.
Great Job Guys!!!!
http://news.yahoo.com/citizens-petition-white-house-asking-george-zimmerman-investigated-082028442.html
When I saw the black & white photo, and then the photo taken in the police station, I knew something was wrong. The lump on the side of his nose is not in the police pics.
Also wondering — just how much light did Wagner have when he took the picture? It’s brighter than the one taken by the witness of the back of GZ’s head.
Comparing the picture, to Jorge’s (following day) walk thru video, makes it obvious the picture is photoshopped. I hope LLMPapa does a video and rips Jorge to shreds!
Also, all that blood on Jorge and Trayvon didn’t have on drop of Jorge’s DNA on him….
Oh, I’d say count on that.
Oh its coming, believe that he is working on that right now!!!!
LLMPapa Rules!!!
I am uncomfortable saying this, but, I will anyway. I believe that blood may not belong to the killer. I think he applied it himself.
I think it was applied after the photograph was taken using Photoshop.
Can anyone tell me where did the swelling go when he was photographed at the station 30 min later. Look at his pics at the station I don’t see any swelling
Easy….Photoshop on……..Photoshop off…..on….off…….on….off.
😆
Lets get someone to check his e-bay purchases….Hmmmm.
A little dab here….a little dab there…..
SheLie.”…Oh, that makes you look so manly, oh your my hero…”
LMBO!!
How does anyone have blood on their lips, with their hands handcuffed behind their back, but don’t lick the blood off AND appear in the police station without it?
If this is the 45 percent blood that the EMT testified about, he should go back to school for math classes.
Xena, it’s new math. SPD does that kind of math. In SPD, one equals zero, eight equals nine, seven equals eight, and something equals maybe not, and all in one dimension. Once you get two dimensions into it, there’s racism.
Black kids with candy = black dynamite
brand new mathematics
“If this is the 45 percent blood that the EMT testified about, he should go back to school for math classes.”
This is the most interesting point. Had GZ been cleaned up already or not?
But I’m not convinced yet the picture was photoshopped, especially so ineptly and so obviously that anyone glancing at it thinks they can tell. Seems like a lot of dangerous risk for very little gain. The photo still shows very minor wounds and a small amount of fresh blood, which in real life can look unreal. Hardly a case clincher.
GZ had not been cleaned up by the EMT’s when the photo was taken. Which leads to something else I’ve questions; i.e., if GZ’s nose was broken and bleeding, and Trayvon purportedly was covering GZ’s nose and/or continually hitting him, should there be some blood splatter on GZ’s face?
@Xena,
I have been sitting here thinking about this photo and alot of other things. I have come to the conclusion that “TIME” keeps helping us and the State of Florida Prosecution Team.
NEN call Time
Foot per sec walk Time.
DeeDee call Time.
Witness call Times.
Serino report Times
Other Officers Times.
Photo(s) taken Times.
EMT care Time.
Vitals Normal Time
Arrival Times.
Transport Times.
LLMPapa Video Times.
There are so many more.
Time and evidence is totally against the admitted killer of Trayvon Martin.
Absolutely.
Here’s another timing to consider too — the time it took for GZ to move out of his house and move-in with Osterman within hours of killing Trayvon — before the morning edition of the newspaper was distributed — before Trayvon was identified — before anyone other than those involved knew what GZ looks like.
Absolutely.
The timing. All before the New Black Panthers come on the scene. Its all recorded.
Maybe he got the wrong victim. Maybe he actually had someone else he was taking down and along happens Trayvon.
Possiblity. I have alot going on, lagging behind on research. 😳
Before you dismiss the possibility that the photo was photoshopped, consider why and for whom it may have been photoshopped. For example, perhaps it was photoshopped to convince Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin that GZ had acted in self-defense so that they would accept the decision not to charge GZ. Or maybe it was intended for the governor.
Point is, maybe it was never intended to be a part of discovery released to defense counsel and the public in a case, since its purpose may have been to prevent a charge from being filed.
The strategy might have worked, if it were shown only to certain people whose consent was required to support a decision not to charge GZ. If that were the case, no charges would have been filed and the photo never would have seen the light of day.
Also consider that the risk of discovery likely would have been regarded as low, if that were the purpose. Therefore, there may not have been much concern about being sloppy, especially, if there were no knowledge of or access to the other photographs taken at the station house 4 hours later for comparison purposes.
Good points, Prof.
I think we may now have a better idea regarding why Serino suddenly retained Jose Baez.
Anyone know if he’s still working patrol on the graveyard shift?
Or maybe he’s taken some time off to spend more time with his family?
care to explain your thoughts?
OMG, that’s it!! Serino prolly just wanted it to show the family to intimadate them into believing the bullshit about Trayvon attacking GZ! i bet he NEVER expected ANYTHING like this!
And the other cop that ‘suddenly remembered it” is in deep shit!
who knows what other dirty tricks they’ve been doing to people over in SANFORD!!
That just might be a BINGO!
That’s what I’m thinking, except that I think the motive to use it may have been to convince Wolfinger not to file or to persuade his successor not to look beyond it.
I’m thinking institutional corruption and I suspect the FBI and FDLE have this escapade figured out.
Yep….I’m thinking institutional corruption and I suspect the FBI and FDLE have this escapade figured out.
Professor, racerrodig, and shannoninmiami: Some think that this photo has been altered by the defence, it seems. No, this pic is not new. It was released with first discovery dump only it was a grainy photocopy. I believe there was a delay in defence receiving it because of the FBI, DOJ investigation. And yes, I think your assessment about the photo turning up weeks later because the Officer who took it forgot!!!! Not believable or even likely.
This photo was altered, IMO, as part of the cover-up.
I’m not saying it is new now. The fact that they had a color version yet only released a grainy B & W that matched nothing and now up pops this version which matches nothing and clearly is altered is where I’m at. I’m saying they photo shopped an existing image. One that has the same scratches on the cop shop pics.
Irregardless, Fabrication of Evidence is Fabrication of Evidence.
@Shannoninmiami, they should all be in deep shit and that goes especially double for two faced Serino. he is a rogue cop if there ever was one. he sure did talk a good game while interrogating the murderer. telling him about how Trayvon was just a average good kid with a future, while he was just gaming the family and the public by saying that he wanted to have him charged with accidental manslaughter. he should go to prison right along with the rest of the SPD gang. can we even believe that Singleton is a clean cop? Trayvon was only 17 and these people saw fit to cover for the person who stole his life. how very low down of all of them and may they all get their just desserts!
Shannon, There are a whole lot of them in deep shit. Seems to me the prosecutors have their hands full tho. I can’t wait to see how all this plays out. Hope they all RIH.
It was rumored that Serino leaked the police station vids to the media as a response to Papa Zim’s media interview where he talked about GZ having injuries to his head and a broken nose.
if that is true, Serino slyly sonned Robert Z and his son LMAO
RZ SR = Cheorge was beaten senseless
Serino = hrllo media, check this video LOL guy is such a liar LOL
Yeah!! Someone in the police dept. released that video to the media. If not Serino, someone else who knew Papa Zim and Junior were lying.
Something I notice as I’m reading reports.
SAO reports list Serino as “Detective Chris Serino Major Crimes Unit”, Lynch as “Sergeant Steven Lynch (officer at the time) Patrol Sanford PD”, and “Sergeant Leon Ciesla Crime Scene Supervisor (at time)”
They make no mention of Patrolman Serino.
He was transferred to patrol and assigned to the graveyard shift after this investigation. He claimed that he “volunteered” for the transfer.
Yeah, right.
Every detective wants that duty.
So much so that they have to draw lots to see who wins the assignment or they would kill each other for the chance to work it.
What I find odd is how much thinner/elongated his face appears in this photo versus the one taken four hours later at SPD. Including the width of the bridge of his nose. It could be the angle, but GZ looks like he gained 20 pounds between photos. Especially if you look at the chin and neck area.
It’s not the angle. I see the same thing. GZ’s jaws are chubby in the police station pics.
BDLR “….how do you explain the difference in apparent weight in the pictures Mr. Fogen..”
Fogen “…..um…..well see, Officer Smith owed me a favor so we stopped at McDonald’s on the way back….um….”
BDLR “…wait, you stopped for burgers on the way back from a crime scene…”
Fogen “…um, it was his treat..”
BDLR “You mean to tell me that you stopped for burgers and fries on the way back from a crime scene before questioning, then washed up in the men’s room at the station unsupervised, had a change of clothes and who knows what else….”
Fogen “….actually I had 40 McNuggets and a shake……um and two large fries, Smitty had a Big Mac”
BDLR “…excuse me..”
Fogen “..um SheLie said I have to lose some weight so I only had 40…oh and I washed my hands before we ate.
BDLR “..this is to much, and I…”
Fogen “..um, it was Smitty’s turn, it wasn’t much at all.
LOL@racerrodig.
Just thinking — maybe Wagner had to lengthen GZ’s face in the pic in order to get the lump on his nose larger — but he forgot to even out GZ’s nose.
My friends son is a comp science major in college. He can download the pic and the properties. From that he can actually tell what program was used to create & alter the pic. This is child’s play.
Note to Moron O’ Mara…get a better computer geek…..yours sucks.
And let’s not forget there is what appears to be dried blood under the tip of his nose and in his mustache and beard, yet the dab of lip gloss red on his lips appears to be freshly applied. LOL
Real glossy for blood. Looks like he kissed Betty Boop.
So EMT’s show up, and clean him off in a patrol car…..not in the ambulance where the supplies are. Not in our town they wouldn’t.
It’s all about angles. Don’t you remember myspace pictures? You take the photo from overhead and look all skinny. I think that dark scrape/photoshop/smeared blood on his nose is like contouring also. Ask any good drag queen. You can put dark and light lines on your face and make it look a totally different shape. hahaha
I think they shrunk his face with photoshop and added the blood. The blood looks out of place
Blood? I thought that was lipstick — “Beyonce Red.”
Ha!
Jeez. Even from the old black-and-white photocopy days, I figured it was the lighting difference – a flash in a dark setting vs. a flash (or not) in a brighter-lit setting. But photoshop is an obvious alternative explanation that didn’t reach my conciousness – the face shrinking is just as likely as the one-sided nose expansion! SMH. Thanks.
Vicky, Different lenses can cause distortions like that especially close up. Of course, I’m only speaking from my experiences with a 35mm SLR manual camera (old school) and different lens lengths. I know nothing about digital cameras…..lol 🙄
Thanks Shannon. It looked photoshopped to me but I wasnt sure if I was the only one who felt that way
jun it wasn’t me!!lolol i would’ve taken a real punch in the nose if i were staging a murder/SYG
i’ve been lookin around trying to see if any pro’s are checking it and so far nothing… couple of days i guess…and i keep missing the shows that are taking about it…
follow
I would like to see someone delve into what’s on the computer screen on the left side of the pic.
I wonder about that too. I think it’s the on-board computer in the police cruiser. Most cruisers come equipped with them these days.
Can’t make it out, however, so I can’t say for sure.
I’m sure that’s what it is and I’d love to know what date\time, etc. it might reveal.
The yellow plastic bag on the seat, looks like a bag of medicine to me….
Do you think there was a camera in the cruiser?
Wagner used his cell phone.
Erica, good question! Wouldn’t that be something!
Yea they should have dash cam footage, I’m sure they pulled all dash cam videos from all cruisers on the seen that night
Everyone, please look at the ridge of the nose. It’s straight all the way to the tip.
And the blood looks like painted on scarlet fingernail polish.
Yet another ludicrous Dumbo effort.
As soon as that black and white copy appeared with discovery released, I knew something was wrong. Everything released in colour except that photo. Hmmm… then to discover how it was sent. Hmmm…. Many poo-poohed me when I said it wasn’t him. The jacket zipped right up to the neck and at the station, totally unzipped. Big fight for his life, and Trayvons killer climbs out of the squad car with shirt perfectly tucked in. Yet, handcuffed behind his back. Hmmm…
People have said I was wrong – He had his face pressed up against the window, he had a bandage across the bridge of his nose, yah, I heard it all. Now we have the colour and it is perfectly clear that this photo has been doctored. I have been vindicated – chest puffed out like Dolly Parton.
Great image – “chest puffed out like Dolly Parton.”
Funny, this doesn’t look like his face in the original video and I’d tend to believe the pictures taken in color at the cop shop that actually have what is called “..a documented chain of evidence..” Sorry Fogen…there is no way you’ll explain this crap away.
Note to Moron O’ Mara….get a new computer geek….this guy sucks.
unbelievable they couldn’t save some humiliation and just had someone have a look at it.. what with all that money gz raised??? can’t afford a college student???LOLOL
My 14 year old son and his friends looked over my shoulder a few minutes ago at that pic. They all take computer classes. They all laughed pretty hard and I sent the pic to one of them.
This will be a school project for them to dissect what was used. Evidently their CompArt teacher is retired LE in this field and is following Fogen antics. God I love when that happens !!
THATS fantastic!! i can’t wait to hear this either!! awsome that the teach is following, this is all just gravy!!
As “Flounder” in “Animal House” said “….oh boy…..is this great..”
Great practical learning experience for them and the teacher will no doubt love showin’ off his stuff by exposing what and how it was done.
I can’t wait !! Hell A’s for everyone…..
I love when that happens. Making education fun.
Yep, my son wants to follow my dad and become a cop. This is going to be a laugh riot, hearing this report.
Keep us posted on the report. 🙂
I certainly will and have made myself a “to do” note.
cool..
@racer, you . are too much, Flounder on animal house. LMAO
Up close, eh?
i was wondering what was off about the picture
but Shannon went up close to it and it is the pixels!
This and the other pic have questionable chain of command
I think the march 21 was “Oh the pic is done in photoshop, finally got it” LOL
Do you think that the prosecution held the color version back for so long to investigate it?
Yep.
Imagine what they’ll have in January !! I can’t wait for February either.
do u feel they think its fake too? Something’s weird about the pic and it turned up later one
Ooo,ooo, I can’t wait!
Yes the bridge is straight and narrow I don’t know what these fools where thinking, someone is in trouble……….
Professor could this be why the photo was orginally released in black and white, to hide the photoshop mishap? Why do you think Wagner or anyone at the SPD, go through this extreme to help Zimmerman, I cant think of a logical motive. Would they really go through all this hassel for George Zimmerman?
The answer is the evidence speaks for itself, and this is not the only example because we have Chris Serino “correcting” ear witnesses at the scene telling them that the defendant was the person who uttered the shriek that abruptly ended with the fatal gunshot.
We also have State’s Attorney Norm Wolfinger declining to charge the defendant with a crime despite overwhelming evidence that he murdered Trayvon Martin.
From the beginning, until State’s Attorney Angela Corey took over the case and the Florida Department of Law Enforcement took over the investigation, the investigation was steered toward not charging GZ with a crime.
I think they and the FBI now know why and how this happened and we will find out in due course after GZ is convicted of second degree murder and sentenced to prison.
Professor, I think these fools think that everyboby is just stupid or crazy. WTH is wrong with these people.
Besides that, a broken nose tends to swell a lot, especially in the first 48-72 hours. Why was his nose not swollen in the police station pics?
follow
I can’t believe OM posted this photo on the GZLC site. The color photo simply makes it more obvious that’s it’s been manipulated. LOLOLOLOL.
Professor, Papapi at JQ has the one Wagner THOUGHT he was sending!
Darn, 3 weeks and he still didn’t get it right!
OMG, you rascal you!
I’m gonna die. I can’t stop laughing.
same here Professor…
same here , laughing my ass off
Man you got that right. This new pic creates even more issues that can’t be overcome. When will they learn.
HEH! :]
LofreakinL!
Too funny. What a fool MOM is.
O’Mara needs to be run out of town. He’s an embarrassment! I just… can’t… believe it! OMFG!
Papa u scared da shit out of me, when I clicked on your link….
hahahaha
ROFLMAO!!!
LMAO!
My belly-laugh of the day. Thanks, I needed it!
That’s what I said… But at first when that pic popped up, I was like shit,WTF is this???? 🙂
thanks,
I just spewed coffee out my nose
yep, MOM should’ve posted that one on his website
me toooooooo!! LOLOLOL
LMFAO Looneydoone
Coffee out the nose hurts. Owwwee. Black licorice is worse though.
@ LLMPapa, OMFG LOLOLOL that was so funny i choked on my coffee!!!!!!!!!!!!! lolol i’m gonna tweet this allover the universe!!
😆 😆 😆
How did blood get on the tippie-wippie of his nosey-wosey?
Magic ?? Maybe “The Force” Was David Copperfield in town, ‘cuz that’s about what it would take.
LOLOLO malisha!!LOL
Now you know that it got there when Trayvon covered his mouth and nose stopping his breathing. NOT!
Malisha…..You’ll notice that the “blood” (what actually looks like food coloring), stops perfectly at base of his bottom lip. And there also appears to be nothing coming out of the sides of the nostrils, where blood would tend to flow. Why isn’t the “blood” smeared sideways under his nose especially if he had tried to wipe it?. The “blood” on his lips also looks somewhat crimson colored and transparent too….blood is somewhat more scarlet in color and opaque. The marks (scratches) on his face seem to run diagonally from lower left (on his forehead and nose) to upper right. It seems strange that Officer Wagner would have “forgotten” a piece of “evidence” as “important” as this. It looks retouched (an old-school photography term…lol).
True, “the tippie-wippied nosey-wosey” seems to defy gravity once again.
*********************************************************************
As an aside: Notice Wagner must have arrived on the scene with his trainee Robertson, who maintained the crime scene log ordered by McCoy, who must have arrived shortly after. McCoy turn modifies Smith and Ayala’s reports. Wagner reports Ayala and Raimondo doing CPR. Thus he must have arrived before McCoy, who claims to have taken over CPR using gloves, which means she also arrived before 19:26.
Why does the log only start with Diane Smith, Ciesla’s assistant who arrives at 8:03, according to the log 11 minutes before Ciesla himself. Which suggests, a) none of her photos record the precise position of Trayvon b) Smith and Johnson must have left the scene at that time.
Wagner seems to be the officer that accompanies Serino to the witnesses, e.g the teacher. Would Serino choose an officer with whom he is not familiar? Serino arrived too late to take a look at GZ, how likely is thus that Wagner did not show Serino the photos he took on their way to e.g. the teacher? This is of course relevant information since Diane Smith couldn’t taken a photo since Smith and Johnson had already left. What time exactly? And if the times we have are reliable.
But why does Robertson forget to record Smith on his crime scene log but records Johnson, he must have arrived with Wagner thus before both left with GZ.
*************************************************************************
To return to the topic: What I find more puzzling is the swollen nose. What made the swelling disappear in the photos taken at SPD at approximately 4 hours later? Did the paramedics apply some magic ointment? As far as I know there is no way to make the swelling disappear rapidly, most medicine only is against the accompanying pains. Do the reports by Fire and Rescue staff record a swollen nose? I don’t remember.
Treatment for a broken nose
I won’t check for bad spelling grammar or any other matters, I shouldn’t be here to start with.
Strictly, Tee, Axiom Amnesia’s black and white copyof the photo, image 37 already shows the tippie-wippie nosey-wosey, which I read as the blood on the tip of GZ’s nose. Notice the light reflex on the lower lip also shows there already. Just as seemingly the bloated nose. My own copy of the image in discovery one page 70 is much worse.
The problem is that Wagner reports he downloaded the photo immediately to his SPD “department issued laptop” and deleted the original. Ccould we have some forensics done on it please? Or did he use expert deletion software meanwhile.
First discovery, p. 18, Wagner, report, on 3/24/2012:
Second discovery, p. 22, SAO’s witness interview:
*********************************************
Back to the first discovery, p.37, (Serino’s 03/13 ROI): Notice that Serino he arrives on the scene at 20.08 (CSCL)/20:10 (his ROI). Serino reports that after being briefed by Ayala, the second officer on the scene, he spoke with Smith, “who was the first officer on the scene”, which would mean Smith and Robertson were still on the scene. Considering that Diane Smith arrived at 20:03 (crime scene contamination log, 2nd discovery, p. 48), she could easily have taken a photograph before GZ was brought away. Why did this not happen?
Sorry, Prof, for not taking more care and now having the line run way out of the comment space.
A few mistakes in my first long comment and one I noticed in the latest:
Notice that Serino [missing word: writes] he arrives.
Gone for good now, still many things to finish before I am off to Berlin.
George Zimmerman WH petiton: 657
Trayvon Martin WH petition: 794
@leander
Interesting. He can’t have interviewed him at the scene. Smith arrived at the police station with Zimmerman around 7:50. Maybe a little later, but definitely before 8 pm. And according to Smith’s statements he stayed at the police station, checking GZ every 15 minutes.
So maybe he talked with him on the phone.
thanks, Mirre, I appreciate your response. The world is big and complex. What you say makes sense. But considering Wagner, showing around pictures but not showing it to the lead investigator whom he accompanies does it?
@leander,
I agree, the Wagner story is strange. The handeling of this photo doesn’t sound like procedures were followed.
I think it’s important to consider what the photo and the comparison later photos actually show and don’t show, rather than just assuming the earlier photo has been altered. Maybe it has been. But is this photo actually helpful to the defense?
The pinkish swelling in question looks extremely small and localized. What kind of an object and force would make that small, barely perceptible swelling along with a small scrape/cut? I dunno, a bullet shell maybe? A lamp pole? A forensic doctor could say.
In addition, the swelling is apparently so minor that a very short time later (how long? an hour?) — the swelling is gone!
This is evidence of a NOT SERIOUS INJURY.
See comment below from Vicky about a conversation with a doctor friend —
“She says it is very possible for there to be more localized swelling immediately following an injury than four hours later, even without ice.”
As for the bleeding on the tip of the nose, please note what appear to be very small pinprick nicks at the end of GZ’s nose in the later cop shop photos.
http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/trayvon-zimmerman-case-photos/evidence-photos/
Now I have no idea how much the end of the nose bleeds when nicked, but it looks like in the recently released color photo (and its earlier bw photocopied version) that the blood collected at the tip of GZ’s nose and running down his lip is NOT coming from his nostrils — or any obvious place other than the tip of his nose.
What would make little pinprick nicks like that at the end of GZ’s nose? Thorns? Bushes, tree branches maybe?
Could the same blow/object/fall that caused the extremely minor, quickly-disappearing swelling and scrape/cut to the right side of GZ’s nose have also caused the tiny pricks to the tip of GZ’s nose? Or are those two separate injuries?
And what important facts does the color version of the photograph not show? These points have been brought up by others, Malisha, Xena, etc.
That half of GZ’s face and head is not covered with blood, contradicting the EMT.
That TM did not have his hands all over GZ’s face and mouth — unless the bleeding nose came after TM was dead.
And a GZ who looks, what? Not very distraught.
Makes sense. Especially the photo makes Chorge less than distraught, which he should have been for multiple reasons.
Does anyone have a link or do y’all know how much of Chorge’s blood ended up on Trayvon’s clothes, in particular his hoodie sleeves. The squirrels at the treehouse excuse lack of Chorge’s blood on his hands to the rain but it seems the clothes could not avoid getting blood-stained IF Chorge’s latest evidence picture is real. (Still don’t get how that distortion on the side of Chorge’s nose reduced so quickly and wonder if it is documented anywhere on EMT notes.)
The trouble is, there is no injury that would change the shape of the bridge of his nose like this: http://tinyurl.com/co9ouag
Or, stretch the red swath across the bridge, that extends from eye to eye inside the circled area. But is stretched in the vertical in the right side photo. Only an alteration of the photo itself could do that.
Trayvon’s hands were found under his body, so the point that the rain washed it away is no point at all, plus the blood doesn’t look smeared. Plus GZ said he spread Trayvon hands apart, now that would probably mean his hands were face down and blood would have transferred from Trayvon’s hands to gz’s hand. The rain didn’t wash away blood from gz’s head but it washed all the blood from Trayvon’s shielded hands. Who’s blood was on the skittles.?
I think I just almost died from laughing PLEASE STOP you’re killing me. Seriously I nearly cough up a lung trying to compose myself LLM Papa ur the man!
OMG, LLMPapa!!!
OVERCOME with laughter!!!
Thank you for releasing all the pent up stress from my body. Laughter is, indeed, the best medicine. But a howl like I just had is like an ICU stay at a massage hospital!
Totally hellafuckin badass awesome, LLMPapa. You’ve outdone yourself. LMAO, coffee out the nose!
I am so gonna tweet this.
It gets even better. This thing is listed on “Top Images” on twitter, under the hashtag search for “Zimmerman.”
ROFLMAO
LLMPapa, you are a riot. I just can not stop laughing. Tears rolling down my face. You are just too much. Gotta love ya.
According to the way Georgie described the “bashing” to his nose, that’s the way it should have looked.
That exaggerated picture really makes me think the original was also photoshopped.
The reason is the bridge of the nose is so narrow compared to all of the other pictures of GZ.
With your exaggerated picture, you see the bridge of his nose has gotten even smaller as the rest of the nose is bigger.
>^..^< even a cat can photoshop better than that!
So can my parrot.
Yep! Those African Grays are mighty smart!
Sent from my iPod
Professor we don’t even need to put a side by side of him up of this one. One question a person can ask themselves is how on Gods green earth do you get a picture of a nose from a downward pose on a face that’s facing forward? Hmmm……..
My question is, if this were authentic, why was it not released earlier? Why did the defense wait until now? Hmmm…damage control much?
O’Mara said his office received its copy of the original color photo on 10/29, together with other discovery.
As you may recall, a copy-machine generated B&W copy was provided to the defense in the first discovery dump.
My best guess is the State delayed providing a color copy because the prosecutors and the FDLE realized it was photoshopped and wanted to investigate who did it and why they did it before they turned it over to the defense and lost containment on what might happen. As it turned out, they were right because O’Mara published it on his website to support his client’s claim that Trayvon sucker-punched him in the nose. He apparently does not realize that the photo actually hurts his client because the injuries are as fake as his story about being attacked.
Meanwhile, the FBI is investigating Serino and the SPD for possible civil rights violations, so I’m pretty certain the FBI Crime Lab also has examined the original photograph.
I’m thinking O’Mara probably is feeling pretty stupid today about being punk’d.
Then again, maybe he hasn’t figured it out yet.
If I were him, I’d take it down.
I think he is realizing the error of putting it up on the begsite, he put up the FBI reports up real fast.
Professor says: “I’m thinking O’Mara probably is feeling pretty stupid today about being punk’d.”
How do you feel about O’Mara, a supposedly intelligent man commanding a high salary, getting punk’d?
The reason I ask is I thought O’Mara is playing to the “masses” of racists Zimmerman supporters who don’t compare the pictures to see it is an obvious fake, don’t actually follow all the evidence but rather just MOM’s website biased updates and will contribute to “pitiful” Chorge’s defense fund because of the picture he posted that proves Trayvon was a thug.
I don’t think MOM is a total fool and inadvertently posted that picture without researching it like we have on your blog, but that’s just a nonprofessional opinion. Maybe he is a fool who did not pay attention to detail?
He’s Moron O’ Mara….the Fool. I do work for lawyers and every one laughs at this Fool. He doesn’t examine evidence, he doesn’t analyze the repercussions of what he says, does or what he allows Fogen to do. Oh, he’s a Fool of Epic Proportions I’d say.
I did not reach that conclusion by only considering this one event.
Or maybe he’s posting for dollars? Could be? After all that blog isn’t a court room, so he can get away with things like that, that he wouldn’t dare do in court.
I’m also sure that the FBI has taken possession of the phone that took that picture, and had the hard drive sent to their lab where the original picture will be recovered. If the picture was erased and over written, it will probably cost about 200 dollars to recover it. To recover all the data that ever was on the phone, will probably cost about a thousand dollars. Such is the digital world we live in.
Like the experts say, the only way to securely erase what’s on your hard drive, is to grind it into dust or melt it. lol
Professor,
This just in
fogen’s legal team has filed suit against NBC for Defamation
buncha grifter’s…..guess the autographed thank you cards and photoshopped color image didn’t bring in the big bucks they expected
Your thoughts ?
follow the kitty….
My daughter took a web design class, she took one look at the photo and said, ” mom this pic is photoshopped, I only had two weeks of photoshopping and I can do better than that what site are you on.” I only showed her the picture I didn’t say anything to her but “look at this picture.” Smh!
Here is the link to the other photos taken that night at the SPD http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/trayvon-zimmerman-case-photos/