Trayvon Martin’s Killer Trolls for More Dollars by Offering to Sell his Signed Autograph

I thought I had lost my capacity to be shocked when the man accused of shooting to death Trayvon Martin appeared on the Sean Hannity Show and told the nation that the shooting was “part of God’s plan” and he had “no regrets.” I could not and still cannot understand such a disdainful, casual and dismissive remark about killing any human being, no matter the justification. I have never killed anyone and I hope that I never do, but if I were to do so to save my life or the life of another person, I have no doubt that I would be emotionally devastated and sick with regret. I would expect to suffer post-traumatic stress in the form of flashbacks and nightmares for the rest of my life. I do not believe that my probable emotional and psychological reaction would be unlike yours and most everyone else on the planet, even if there were no doubt that we did what we had to do to survive or save another.

For all of my adult life, I have known that there are some people among us who can kill another human being as casually as we smack a mosquito that landed on our skin or a cockroach crawling across a counter top. They simply do not care and that does not change, even if it turns out that they killed an innocent person by mistake.

They do not care if a law or principle prohibits killing another person. At some point during their lives, if they conclude that they will benefit from killing another person, assuming they can get away with it, there is nothing to prevent them from killing except fear of failure or suffering an injury. I have known and represented people like that. I do not know why they are like that and they have told me that they do not know either. Fortunately, most people are not like that.

I believe it is important to know that these people, whom we call sociopaths, are not confined to any economic class, race, intellect, gender or religion. In fact, I believe they are more likely to be found among the predatory rich who regard the rest of us as a resource to be exploited for fun and profit. Suffice to warn that one must endeavor to identify them and I have found that the best way to do that is to know them by their deeds and their lies. They invariably leave a signature trail of using and exploiting others for personal gain without guilt or remorse.

You will know them by what they say and do.

In retrospect, I should not have been as surprised as I was by what he said on the Sean Hannity Show because all of his vital signs, including pulse and blood pressure, were normal and he exhibited no symptoms of shock or emotional distress when he was examined by an EMT within 15 minutes after the shooting. And this was not just any killing, assuming there is such a thing. This killing was not necessary and the person whom he murdered was an unarmed innocent.

I believe the evidence will convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that he profiled, stalked and killed Trayvon Martin. He was the self-annointed Neighborhood Watch Captain searching for an opportunity to commit an heroic act that would draw attention and establish his bonafides as a reliable and effective protector of neighborhood residents and their property from Black law breakers. His opportunity to accomplish that objective and prove to the police that they should hire him appeared in the form of Trayvon Martin, a Black male teenager wearing a hoodie in his neighborhood whom he did not recognize.

That was all of the information he needed to take action. Without a shred of evidence or making any effort to identify himself and engage Trayvon in polite conversation to find out who he was and if he needed any assistance, he concluded that he was a criminal “up to no good.” Acting as judge, jury and executioner, he menaced and stalked Trayvon first in his vehicle and then on foot after Trayvon attempted to elude him by running into a grassy and unlit area between two buildings composed of town houses. Despite being warned and agreeing not to follow Trayvon by a police dispatcher who had already dispatched an officer to the scene, he pursued Trayvon into the dark area with a loaded gun and shot him to death mere seconds before the police arrived.

Although he admitted that he got out of his vehicle and went in the same direction as Trayvon, he denied following him. He said he was merely complying with the dispatcher’s request to provide an address where the suspect was so that he could relay it to the officer en route. There are several problems with this explanation.

First, he admitted to the dispatcher that he got out of his vehicle and followed Trayvon until the dispatcher warned him not to do that.

Second, he specifically agreed not to follow Trayvon after the dispatcher warned him not to do that.

Third, the dispatcher did not ask him to provide an address where Trayvon was.

Fourth, he told the police that he went to a location where Trayvon wasn’t to find an address to give the dispatcher.

Fifth, he never provided an address to the dispatcher.

Sixth, even though Trayvon’s body was discovered more than 40 feet away in the unlit area that he vehemently denied entering, he told the police that Trayvon emerged from the unlit area between the two buildings and knocked him to the ground as he was walking back to his vehicle. Therefore, Trayvon’s body was not where it should have been, if he had been telling the truth.

Seventh, he did not tell the dispatcher where his vehicle was parked or describe it so that the officer en route would know what vehicle to look for and where to find it.

Eighth, he terminated the call with the dispatcher after asking him to tell the officer to call his cell phone when he arrived in the neighborhood.

By now, it should be apparent to everyone that he followed Trayvon into the unlit area where he shot him to death and he intentionally lied when he denied following him because he wanted to conceal that he was the aggressor by conjuring up a lie in which Trayvon followed and attacked him. The 40 foot difference between where he says Trayvon attacked him and where he shot Trayvon to death is an enormously inconvenient fact that exposes him for the liar and murderer that he is.

You shall know them by their lies and by their acts.

But there is more.

He would have us believe that Trayvon inexplicably emerged from the unlit area, jumped him and attempted to beat him to death with his bare hands as he was returning to his vehicle after abandoning the chase. He told the police that he killed Trayvon in self-defense as he was on the verge of losing consciousness from having been decked by a punch to the nose, straddled and pummeled about the face repeatedly and gripped by the side of the head and the back of his head slammed against a concrete sidewalk multiple times until he thought his head would explode. Yet, Trayvon had no reason to attack him since he had no weapon of any kind and he had successfully eluded him. The menacing stranger also outweighed him by more than 40 pounds and had never identified himself.

In addition, he sustained only two minor capillary-type cuts to the back of his head and, despite a claimed broken nose, he declined multiple offers to be transported to a hospital for a more complete medical evaluation.

He appeared cool, calm and collected throughout the interview at the police station with no sign of emotional or psychological stress. High resolution photographs of his claimed injuries show only two minor cuts to the upper back part of his head that did not require any stitches or even a bandage. This is inconsistent with his claim that the back of his head was repeatedly slammed into the concrete sidewalk until he thought his head would explode. His nose, which he claims was broken, shows only minor discoloration and barely detectable swelling. This evidence also is inconsistent with his story.

No blood or his DNA was detected on the cuffs and lower sleeves of the two sweatshirts that Trayvon was wearing or on his fingernail clippings which is inconsistent with his story.

Apparently, he was not dismayed or the least bit troubled to find out later that Trayvon was a peaceful and innocent Black teenager walking home in the rain on an early Sunday evening around 7 pm and talking to his girlfriend on his cellular phone while armed with only a can of iced tea and a bag of Skittles.

We know this because he told Sean Hannity that he had no regrets and would not do anything different because everything happened according to God’s plan.

You shall know them by their acts and their lies.

And now this unrepentant human being without a conscience has announced that he will be selling his autographed signature.

Words fail.

382 Responses to Trayvon Martin’s Killer Trolls for More Dollars by Offering to Sell his Signed Autograph

  1. I know I am late in reading this and commenting but this was spot on! This is exactly what bothered Sanford investigators in the third interrogation but once charges were not filed they felt they had to save face at the trial.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Sounds more like, media pundits trolling for issues to attract attention. Just my opinion. Serino’s actions are highly questionable and skirt close the edge if not over, so, no surprise he’d want a lawyer to ensure that, if self incriminatory testimony is solicited, he’s in a position to bargain for immunity.

      Petition Updates:
      SYG Petition is 13
      ProZ Petition is 592
      Trayvon Petition is 727

    • cielo62 says:

      The only problem here is for SPD. It makes them look either like incompetent morons or conspiring racists, neither of which is good for the department. It doesn’t matter what they THOUGHT was sufficient; we have more than enough evidence now to show just how stupid or racists the SPD truly is. This isn’t an issue for the prosecution at all.

      Sent from my iPod

  2. Malisha says:

    I misspelled the kid’s name. Teontae? Somebody help me.

  3. Malisha says:

    I just looked at the Trayvon Martin murder under a different lens.

    Just imagine an Israeli soldier was on guard one rainy evening at 7 p.m. A young Arab guy walks by. The soldier radio’s in, “that guy looks like he’s up to no good.” The unit commander says, “we’ll send somebody down to check him out.” The soldier pursues and the HQ hears him going huff puff so he asks, “Are you following him?” “Yeah,” comes the answer. “We don’t need you to do that, OK?” the HQ dispatcher says. The soldier says, “OK” and then says to have the commander let him know when he’s on site.

    Before the commander shows up the soldier shoots the young guy dead. There is a quick inquest and nothing is done to him. It turns out the Arab kid was just going home from the store and he has no record as a terrorist or as a criminal or as anything bad. The family is up in arms and the HQ simply tells them it was a “good shoot” and they should keep quiet about it.

    Then it is reported to Amnesty International. Big Response world-wide. Is it anti-Semitism for people to demand that the soldier be tried for murder?

    No, in fact, it is not. It is perfectly appropriate. He had no right to shoot the kid.

    This did not happen, to my knowledge; I made this up so we could look at this from another perspective.

    By the way, something just occurred to me. This kid named Neontae Amis, who lived in RTL and told the newspaper that he was always wary of Cheorge who was patrolling and trying to get young Black kids in trouble, he went strangely silent very quickly didn’t he? Want to bet the SPD began to harass him and he got “escorted” after he gave that statement to the press? We haven’t heard from Ibrahim Rashada either, have we?

    I feel another FOIA coming on.

  4. Malisha says:

    What rhymes with schmubble-awk?

  5. Malisha says:

    When Robert Jr. carries on about a “decent American’s credibility” being damaged because of “race,” I see a technique I have not yet coined a phrase for. Perhaps I need to do so right now. I’m gonna deconstruct it first.

    First we have the credibility.

    FACT: Police do not ordinarily accord ANY credibility to the self-exculpatory statements given to them by defendants, unless and until those self-exculpatory statements either fit, logically, into the system the police have inferred from the physical evidence itself (and from experience itself) or until those self-exculpatory statements are corroborated by CREDIBLE outside data.

    FACT: Cheorge’s statements that he killed in self-defense did not make sense because he had already told the dispatcher that the guy he called “the suspect” was running away. Guys who run away don’t attack; they flee.

    FACT: Cheorge’s credibility was further damaged by the fact that he insisted he was punched in the face numerous times and that his head was smashed numerous times on concrete but, as Serino commented, his injuries were “capillary-type lacerations not coincident with that type of beating.”

    FACT: Cheorge’s credibility was further damaged by the fat that he tried to hide a duplicate passport and a couple hundred grand from the court so he could get a low bail and possibly vanish before trial.

    So we have badly damaged, if any, credibility on the part of Cheorge by the time Robert Jr. began his media campaign.

    But Robert Jr. wants to blame Cheorge’s loss of credibility on someone other than Cheorge himself. Pattern sound familiar? Robert Jr. would like to pin that on — Crump, Sharpton, Jackson — oh I don’t know, somebody BLACK — and Robert Jr. not only wants to blame the loss of credibility on Blacks, he wants to also assign them a motive, and an EVIL motive at that, for wanting to harm Cheorge’s credibility: their RACISM.

    Now these African Americans’ innate racism is to blame for his brother’s undeserved loss of credibility.

    OK now, let’s get over there to the second part of the analysis.

    “of a decent American.”

    Cheorge is, by definition [in this whole situation, starting with the report to NEN, carrying right on through the killing of Trayvon Martin, into the interrogations where Serino reminds him that he is ‘still the good guy,’ and on through the media reports that PROVE him right when they agree with him and that prove only their own bias when they do not], THE DECENT AMERICAN. By implication, Trayvon Martin was an indecent American, because according to Cheorge, only one of them (Cheorge or Trayvon) could be right. One of them threatened the life of the other at a time when that one did not have to threaten the life of the other. One of them attacked the other when there was no reason for the attack. One of them hid in a scurrilous and criminal manner and then sprang out to viciously harm the other, all with evil motive. It was not just a fight between two equals and one lost; it was a calculated murderous assault. Since Cheorge is DECENT a priori, Trayvon…gets…convicted.

    This is where the Outhouse spends its energy. This is not a murder trial of a man they believe is innocent. This is a contest between someone they consider more or less white, and thus automatically DECENT, and a person they have quickly and conclusively labeled a THUG so it was right of the DECENT GUY to kill the THUG. That is all they have. They don’t care about the timing, the aiming, the real voice quality of the screams, the logic, the intent, the fine points of law, the evidence, the DNA, the rationale, the motive, the distinctions, the evasions, the obvious holes in the many stories Cheorge told.

    To them this is like a comic book: DECENTAMERICAN rides again in the nighttime protecting the world from THUG and once again, predictably, DECENTAMERICAN wins.

    They do not like the idea that the law can say their guy cheated.

    That’s where “the credibility of a decent American” ends up.

    But now we still have the theory that “racism” has damaged the credibility of the decent American. How?

    Robert Jr. presumes that we will believe his silly exculpatory pablum about all the good Cheorge did for the poor downtrodden African Americans of the world. He claims Cheorge went to the NAACP to ask for help for Sherman Ware. I love this one. WHY? By the time Cheorge heard of Sherman Ware, didn’t he think the NAACP had also heard? But Robert Jr. and his crowd presume that African Americans are so stupid they could not have figured out that there was a bad thing happening to a homeless African American man when he was physically abused. They needed wise, smart, caring Cheorge to let them know that. And what did they, those lazy incompetent unhelpful “organization African Americans” do? They told Cheorge they just did not have the resources to help one of their own. (WOW, doesn’t Robert Jr. worry just a bit that this will come off sounding … um … a bit not so credible?) So Cheorge just had to do it himself. OK. He handed out fliers at the Black Churches? (They have all denied that; has Cheorge produced a single flier he handed out? A single petition he started? A single pastor who will substantiate this silly claim?) WHY HAND OUT FLIERS AT THE BLACK CHURCHES, Cheorge? Shouldn’t you go hand out those fliers at all the WHITE churches in town and in all the synagogues and community halls and pin it up in all the places where ALL Sanfordians go, not just the Black churches? I mean, how would you get community support for this poor guy? ONLY FROM BLACKS? That doesn’t make sense; that would make it look like only Blacks cared about this homeless guy.

    No, Robert Jr., nothing you say really, logically supports your brother’s unwarranted claim to credibility.

    And this recent little fit of indignation about the media characterizing your brother’s “thank you note” campaign as “selling autographs,” it’s unbecoming. The media will call it as they see it; you can only change that if you have credibility with them. Check on your credibility recently, Robert Jr.: for a decent American, I’d say yours was getting pretty low. 🙄

    • Rachael says:


    • jm says:

      Malisha says: No, Robert Jr., nothing you say really, logically supports your brother’s unwarranted claim to credibility. And this recent little fit of indignation about the media characterizing your brother’s “thank you note” campaign as “selling autographs,” it’s unbecoming.”

      I think Robert Jr fancies himself a celebrity and wants to stay in the spotlight. What he throws out there is nothing but smoke and mirrors to detract from the truth. His dramatic self-serving proclamations are 50% double-talk and 50% lies.

      • Malisha says:

        Correction, jm. Robert Jr’s stuff is composed of exactly: 45% double-talk, 45% lies, and 45% lying double-talking gobbledy-gook.

      • PiranhaMom says:

        @JM –

        “I think Robert Jr fancies himself a celebrity and wants to stay in the spotlight. What he throws out there is nothing but smoke and mirrors to detract from the truth. His dramatic self-serving proclamations are 50% double-talk and 50% lies.”

        A textbook case of sibling rivalry, JM.

        Cheorge claimed a spot on “The Ten Least Influential Americans” and RZJr. now wants to beat him to it in 2013.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Excellent, well thought out post, Malisha!
      I agree with you.

  6. PiranhaMom says:

    @fauxccoy –

    You’re absolutely right! No indent. I think being a short pithy comment with a common left edge made it stand out – and it was sandwiched between two of Ed’s essays.

    I thought your comment about the Zimmermongers was a classic – using one of the few words I recall from Latin class. (Always got that one right on the tests.)

    • fauxmccoy says:

      thanks, P – i thought it was rather clever and expressed my feelings as eloquently as possible. the drama surrounding it however has been most unpleasant.

      • ed nelson says:

        HI Fauxmccoy, I sure didn’t mean to say anything that would be insulting, yesterday…

        I got put on a kind of thing… I am going to be banned! Can you dig it?… Banned from Professor Freddie’s site!!

        I got banned from FDL after about 500 posts… and now I will be banned from Prof Fredd’s site also!

        Well tell you what!: Sorry to tell ya… You need to not be too gadammed sensitive about little comments that mighy some times be… some kind of little bit abrasive…

        Oy Vey…. you sure are not …. You are faltering in my view, Freddie… you are not reaching to the stars….

      • ed nelson says:

        Hi fauxmccoy, I don’t even know what the deal was, could you give me a clue… did I say something that was sort of naughty?

        I sure don’t remember it… I do remember some comments but, I don’t know what the heck Prof Fred is talking about… I sure don’t talk like that…

        Could you tell me about it? (Thanks in advance… Edsville)

    • ed nelson says:

      I am Ed Nelson… and you saying that something about how I should apolgize, to some folks… that would include you of couse™

      I disagree sweethart! I don’t agree in any way! You are a complete charlatan… and a complete ahole mfr.

      Although I did make a mistake, and a big Faux pas… vise vise my stupid coments etc… I just like to say…

      Sweet Pirana…! Believe me pirana babe, I love you! I mean FCS’s I love you Pirana babe… with teeth and all we need to get real… You are the real deal.. I am. I am… let us get together… get together to talk…. and more

      I guess that might be sort of suggestive to them that don’t have any home values… like family values… but on the otherhand…

      • gblock says:


        I think that it is time for you to give it a rest for tonight and go to sleep. If you continue, you are more likely to cause further offense than to mend fences.

  7. Diane says:

    How much state and federal tax will DAD have to pay on monies received this year.

  8. ChrisNY~Laurie says:

    Also, what Crump said on TV about witness 8 blowing away the defenant’s absurd self defense claim is irrelevant to this case…he is the attorney for the victim Trayvon Martin’s family. I just don’t understand what Crump, Julison, Jackson or Trayvon’s parents have to do with what the defendant did that night.

    • Xena says:

      Race, race, race race…he won’t let it go, because he wants it out there to make their future lawsuits appear better for them.

      I posted about it on the new thread. But, what lawsuits? The Zimmermans have no standing or basis to sue anyone, and suing them is useless since they are all living like vagabonds and broke.

      • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

        I agree that they have no basis to sue anyone, but IMO that is what they are preparing for. They want to sue the media and Crump for saying that his brother was racist and ruining their family name and forcing them to be homeless and hiding etc…all bs, but I think that is the real reason for all this media attention that he seeks. Well, that and he wants to be “famous”. lol

        • Xena says:

          They want to sue the media and Crump for saying that his brother was racist and ruining their family name and forcing them to be homeless and hiding etc…all bs,

          Yeah. Right. Let them find an attorney to do that — in America. LOL!

          but I think that is the real reason for all this media attention that he seeks. Well, that and he wants to be “famous”. lol

          Yep. Junior is looking for a job. He should have applied for media work before he set a reputation for being a redundant twit.

      • Jun says:

        LMAO I dont feel Cheorge will walk because we all know his story is a complete lie and he stalked and chased, threatened, terrorized and killed Trayvon, a kid who was unarmed and had candy and ice tea…

        but theoretically speaking they have no case to sue anyone, no matter what happens

        • Xena says:

          but theoretically speaking they have no case to sue anyone, no matter what happens

          Agreed. The idea that Junior might be leaning that way conveys that he already contacted the Florida Bar with a complaint and was told to go jump in the lake.

  9. cielo62 says:

    >^..^< words fail but my disgust is in full blossom. Karma is loading a large cannon for Cheorge.

  10. groans says:

    FYI – O’Mara’s web site has posted a Motion to Compel Production of Evidence from a Third Party. It’s about Mr. Crump’s taped interview back in March. Rather long-winded, so I haven’t finished reading it yet.

    The web site states that the motion was filed today, but it’s not a file-stamped copy and it hasn’t been posted on the court’s web site (which seems to take a good bit of time, somethimes).

    • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

      I just read the motion and was going to post it here. That West guy sure does like to try and get as much out to the public as he can. He kept trying in the last hearing and each time Judge Nelson interruptrd him so he couldn’t do it. now he does it in his motion.

      Can someone please tell me what the big deal is about Crumps tape of “his” interview with witness 8? I mean the state interviewed her as well, and Crump is not LE or the DA…he is just an attorney for the Victims family. His recorded interview shouldn’t even matter.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        i would think that concern over crump’s interview with witness 8 is to what degree (if any) that she may have been ‘coached’. i for one do not believe that she was.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Buried in West’s motion is a mention that the defense has witnesses who will testify that the voice heard screaming in the 911 call is that of GZ. Haw and Guffaw!!!

          GZ’s voice can also be hear questioning TM in the same call when the screams are heard. What is the chance that the man demanding answers was also screaming for his life? What? At the bare, empty hands of an unarmed child? GZ produces no evidence what so ever that TM could have given him cause to fear for his life!

          Unless one can suppose that this 17 year old child could somehow kill an adult, quickly and easily with his bare hands, it is not reasonable for GZ to have feared for his life, even if he actually did!

          Remember, at law, his fear has to be a REASONABLE one. He can’t even show that TM attacked him. All we have is his own, already proven-to-be-worthless word that he did. As far as his own gun being taken from him, that, not only did not happen, but, even if it had, he had gained control of it before he fired. There being no further deadly threat, he needed to back away from the child and issue warnings. Instead he restrained the child while he brandished, aimed and discharged his weapon into the child, needlessly.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            agreed, lonnie – absolutely nothing believable or reasonable about that scenario unless you buy into the Super Trayvon with Super Skittles Skillz myth. just read west’s motion and it is definitely shall we say … uh ‘reaching’.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            MOM ruined the defenses credibility with his use of “likely broken nose”. As if an attorney would not know how worthless such a statement is in a court of law.

            “Likely broken nose”?

            Well, is it broken or not?

            We don’t know!

            Why don’t we know?

            Because the injured party did not get it diagnosed!

            If it wasn’t diagnosed then it can’t be used as evidence!

            Why not?

            Because we can’t establish if it really exists!

            We cannot tell jurors that this or that “might” have happened. We must tell them what did, or did not happen. It is for them to figure out what might have happened, from the evidence they are given.

            Nothing that is “likely” is evidence. You can’t submit a “likely gunshot wound” as evidence that a person has been shot!
            You get a diagnosis to prove that it is, or is not a gunshot wound, then you can use it or not. No diagnosis, it’s of no use, it’s not evidence, it’s merely conjecture.

            But hey MOM can try using it on a jury if he want to. But, if he does, he’s “likely” to fail.

      • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

        So they are throwing a hissy fit over Crump’s tape because they think that he coached her in that tape? Didn’t she pretty much say the same thing in her interview with BDLR?

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          MOM and West need something to do to pass the time until trial. They’ll keep finding things to throw hissy fits over until then, because they have nothing!

          We now have almost conclusive proof that GZ received notification that night, and was therefore on the hunt when he left his house, and not headed for the store as he claimed.

          We also know that he was lying about seeing TM by FT’s place! His whole narrative is filled with lies. That’s not going to play well with a jury, no matter what the defense has to say about Crump.

      • gbrbsb says:

        Something I just read at the outhouse, or perhaps I should say tried to read but got desisted after a while by the stupidity, seems to indicate they are trying to prove DD is all a set up, something about information of that night being leaked to Crump from SPD before that interview… pie in the sky methinks!

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        My guess would be that the treepers have found something they are trying to characterize as “coaching” or something like that. Good luck to them with that. DD doesn’t change her story, only the words she uses to tell the same story change. Besides, these depositions were created at a time before DD could know, how what she was saying related to what happened or where. So neither she nor Crump could really do any enhancing that would not be detected as out of place.

        Of course, they’re just spinning their wheels for lack of anything better to do. GZ has very nicely cut off every avenue of escape they might have tried to access, with his big mouth!

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        After all is said and done, all the lead up to the killing is merely “window dressing” of sorts. Tending to prove that GZ was actually out hunting for a target and not going to the store. As well as establishing his ability to lie about his activities that night. His impeachment is necessary to set up the parameters for the important finish> what happened at the exact times proximal to when GZ fired the fatal shot!

        That is the crucial part of the story! Because for GZ to have pulled the trigger in self defense, he needs to show that he was in great danger of life and limb.

        With one of his hands holding a tight grip on Trayvon’s clothing and pulling on them, to get his hand out of the way of his shot, and with his other hand in complete control of the only firearm present, he aimed and fired.

        Does anyone here think that an unarmed Trayvon, presented a deadly threat so serious, that a reasonable person can believe that if GZ did not pull the trigger then and there, he might have been instantly killed by Trayvon’s bare hands? I didn’t think so, GZ is toast!!!

      • Jun says:

        Testify to the screams being Cheorge? Robert Sr & Jr? Didnt Sr already look like a liar at the second bond hearing trying that mess? Does he know what perjury is? Its considered an aggravated offense if lying under oath at a murder trial so it is on him and Jr if that is what they want to do, but it definitely does not sound like George, and it sounds like a kid, and many have noted that they hear his voice speaking to the kid, and there are numerous objective witnesses, not related to either party, that attest that it sound like a kid, and that it was a fearful plea for help, and was ended with a gun shot, so that is evidence the fear was the threat of death at the hands of a gun and a deranged adult named Cheorge in his threat against Trayvon.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          On the tape, which I’ve been trying unsuccessfully not to listen to, you can hear George questioning TM and TM wailing I don’t Noooo!!!
          Please, I’m begging you!!! I don’t think there’s a juror who will say that it’s George begging. In fact, if what George is saying were true, there would be no begging or pleading at all. Let alone by a murderous thug ready and able to kill.

          But, we know that TM was not a murderous thug. We know he was not able to kill at all. I sincerely doubt he’d have been able to pull the trigger, even if he could have gotten George’s gun away from him, which he couldn’t. The evidence shows he didn’t ever try.

          All TM did was scream and beg for his life, but George would have none of it, he just had to hold onto the kid and shoot him straight through the heart, with those hollow point “sure kill” bullets he brought. I’m certain he didn’t buy that ammo in the hopes that his victim would survive. When he purchased those bullets, he did so because he wanted to be absolutely certain that anyone he shot would die. That is what is explained to the purchaser who buys those bullets!

          So, George took extra pains to make sure that his weapon would be extra deadly, then claims he forgot he had it with him? Not even for a moment in time, ever!!! He always knows that he has a deadly weapon with him, because he takes pains to carry it everywhere he goes! Thus his claim that he forgot he had it is just another threadbare lie. Constructed to explain why he lay there taking the fictional beating.

          The court is giving the defense all the time they need, to evaluate how all these demonstrable lies are going to play out before the jury. If they fail to realize the silliness of their horribly misconfigured and hurtfully vexing defense, the court will be moved to throw the defendant under the jail.

          My guess is that George and MOM realize that there’s no percentage in anything they do now. It’s way too late, and they’ve caused too much pain, for any rational being to have any sympathy at all for their plight. So, their only hope is to go to trial and pray that enough racists make it onto the jury to save their case. A hope that is slim indeed, but probably better than no hope at all.

          Of course, if any more of their “iron force” were to get caught or spill the bean, they’ll be further charged with conspiracy to commit murder. If that happens before the trial begins, the charge against George can be upped to first degree, premeditated murder. So, MOM had better get his case moving to trial, and try to get it over with before someone caves in and brings the roof down on George.

          My guess is the white supremacists already in prison are waiting for their new blubbering punk boy to arrive. They’ll offer him their protection, in exchange for his “services”.

        • PiranhaMom says:

          @ Jun,

          First the prosecution plays Cheorge’s demo tape, and asks PopZim and SibZim “do you recognize this voice?”

          Then they play the SPD tape where, in response to Cheorge hearing the 911-recorded screams, Cheorge says, “It doesn’t even sound like me.”

          Then the prosecution plays a relay of “The Screams, George Barking, The Screams, George Barking, The Screams” for Pop and Sib (doing this separately, of course, because only one can be in the courtroom at a time) and asks each: “Can you identify the person who the final screams came from? Can you tell us who that person is that we heard screaming on the final portion of the tape?”

          Pop (then later Sib) answers.

          Then the prosecution plays the single segment of “George Barking” and asks each, in his turn, “Can you identify the person whose voice this is? Can you tell us who that person is that we hear on this sgment of the tape?”

          The jury will thus hear the final agonizing scream six times, and the barking tape six times – and get to hear the two non-defendent Zimmermans making asses of themselves.

          Oh – and at each playing of the 5-element tape and the single-element tape, the prosecution will have a cued voice analysis graphic up on a big screen for the jury. They won’t recall each precise spike, but they will be alert to the differences in the patterns displayed – and they will be impressed that the State prepared the visual analysis for them to see. Science stuff.

          Now, the question is “Can you identify?”

          And they have to answer “Yes” or “No” — under oath.

          (I expect the lead-in to all of this is the many times Pop & Sib have stated publicly it was George’s screams on the 911 tape, so the prosecution gets to ask if they made those statements, and they have to say “yes.”)

          The jury will love this.

          Now Professor Leatherman or other legal lights in this class will have to tell us why this could not be permitted in court.

    • Xena says:

      The web site states that the motion was filed today, but it’s not a file-stamped copy and it hasn’t been posted on the court’s web site (which seems to take a good bit of time, somethimes).

      I read the entire motion, including footnotes. West wants to pick a fight with attorney Crump. IMO, West will lose. At the hearing before the last one, Judge Nelson told West that IF Crump had the recording on his cell phone, that he was not to destroy it. Judge Nelson did not order Crump to turn his cell phone over to ANYONE if it still retained the recorded interview with DeeDee.

      West goes beyond what the court ordered. He even goes beyond what he requested of the court. Not once did West ask for persons present with DeeDee while she was interviewed by Crump. Now, he wants to know. How is Crump or Bernie suppose to know who was present with DeeDee? That’s a question at deposition for DeeDee to answer.

      West also argues that DeeDee is 18 yrs of age and was 18 when the interview was conducted, although Crump allegedly said she was 16. Well of course this is important to West because if DeeDee is the age of emancipation, he will do his best to release her personal information to the Zidiots.

      Now, West wants Crump’s personal recording device. He doesn’t want a copy of the interview from the FBI or DOJ. This is overreaching because the State conducted its own interview and there is nothing wrong with that recording.

      The rest of West’s motion is nickpicking and whining about the State not kissing his ass to provide discovery at his demand.

      • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

        I really can’t stand West. He annoyed me so much when he wouldn’t shut up and kept going on and on after Judge Nelson would tell him that she already ruled on something. I was hoping she’d get pissed and do something about it…maybe next time. 🙂

        Did you happen to catch Jr’s latest scribblings? I got a kick out of some of it, but it was so long and repetetive of his same old boring crap…boohoo for me and my family’s honorable reputaion. Race, race, race race…he won’t let it go, because he wants it out there to make their future lawsuits appear better for them. He can’t be too afraid if he’s prancing all around giving interviews to the people he says ruined their wonderful lives. He should just accept the fact that his little bro did that to them and he himself is making it worse.

        Incase you’re interested

      • gbrbsb says:

        Started to read it earlier but he does go on… and on… and on… One thing, don´t know if I´ve got this right but albeit all evidence should be disclosed by a certain date before trial, (at least in the UK and once disclosure deadline has past you either need a to compelling reason for the delay or a friendly judge), disculpatory evidence is the most imperative at an early stage. Therefore as W8 is unlikely to be diculpatory to GZ is the prosecution obliged to disclose all her evidence fully at this early time.

        • Xena says:

          Therefore as W8 is unlikely to be diculpatory to GZ is the prosecution obliged to disclose all her evidence fully at this early time.

          Witness 8 is a Class A witness for the State. The State interviewed her. It is unlikely that the court would allow an interview conducted by a third-party to be entered into evidence anyway. But, West is catering to the Zidiots’s demands. They know that DeeDee’s statement is damaging to GZ.

          West alleges that he needs the recording of the interview conducted by attorney Crump in order to depose DeeDee and Crump. Bullshit! He needs to depose DeeDee based on Bernie’s interview and any deposition of attorney Crump is nothing more than playing to the Zidiots’ nature to want all Black men denigrated and humiliated regardless of what they do or don’t do.

      • Malisha says:

        They’re just trying hard to create something to make an attack upon DD or to throw her testimony into question. Exact same tactics are used by abuser-protectors in matrimonial action. If a kid says she was abused, they scream that she was coached. They act as if ANYBODY having the nerve to talk to her at any time was committing some kind of crime of “coaching” her as if a child could not give a perfectly coherent and independent story about what happened to her and what she saw, heard, felt, witnessed, and did. It’s nothing but spin. Nelson knows how to deal with it.

        Notice that Cheorge’s statements are said to be absolutely true, while everybody else in the world is obviously a coached liar trying to do major harm to the American justice system.

        • Xena says:

          Notice that Cheorge’s statements are said to be absolutely true, while everybody else in the world is obviously a coached liar trying to do major harm to the American justice system.

          Can we say “Double Standard”? If I were a lawyer before Judge Nelson, the last thing I would want to do is talk out of both sides of my mouth and attempt to disparage the attorney for the victim’s family. I think that Judge Nelson will see through that like a freshly cleaned window.

          Btw, check your email, please 🙂

      • Jun says:

        LMAO at everyone else involved in this incident is a coached liar but the proven scheming liar with a violent history *cough Cheorge* is the shining example of American decency and anything opposing is a sham onto American Justice…. then comes RZ Jr. with race race race black white ying yang and then quoting Martin Luther King, and then later on with the Conservative Tinfoil Hat, calling all blacks a bunch of racist things

        • Xena says:

          then comes RZ Jr. with race race race black white ying yang and then quoting Martin Luther King, and then later on with the Conservative Tinfoil Hat, calling all blacks a bunch of racist things

          A new way to say racist bigoted hypocrite: Robert Zimmerman Jr.

    • Jun says:

      I listened to the crump tape and it is hard to listen to some parts of it but all in all, her story is consistent and is also supported by the forensic evidence and other witnesses to the incident

      its much ado about nothing

    • Jun says:

      What can Judge Nelson do about this?

      I heard she was not happy with West and that she already ruled on it and Crump agreed to provide a witness list, which I am guessing is short. What more does he want? He has the tape, I have the tape. And I agree with Xena in that it is Bernie’s interview that does the most and is what is entranced

  11. It baffles me when the Z supporters say Z should have never been prosecuted.
    What evidence is there that it was self defense?
    His word ?
    His minor wounds ?
    Passing some simple voice stress test ?

    Can someone please tell me what they think they have that convinces them this was self defense ?

  12. fauxmccoy says:

    Ed Nelson owes some serious apologies to some posters here. professor, please take note of his very ugly comments and name calling up thread.

    [Comment received. Action requested taken. Warning issued. Thank you for bringing this to my attention]

    • fauxmccoy says:

      [Comment deleted. Problem dealt with. See my earlier remarks]

      [I apologize for what happened and thank you for bringing it to my attention]

      [Let me know if there is another problem and I will ban him]

      • PiranhaMom says:

        @Professor Fred

        I was shocked, myself, by Ed’s crudities, although I am not always a Puritan, so should not be judgmental – because I think what raised Ed’s ire was the PLACEMENT on the string, of a comment that was NOT directed at Ed, but DID end up immediately below his prior post

        That’s how I took it.

        With an active site like this, and so many postings, the juxtaposition often gets quite spacey. I can see that this happened to Ed, and he responded.

        Nevetheless, that was particularly vulgar, even from Ed. I don’t think he would have written this if he understood his MISunderstanding of what angered him.

        I hope The Professor requests and apology and I hope Ed gives an apology. He may be crude, often, but he is a deep thinker with a good heart, and I hope he sees the pain he has caused.

        I should have added to the requests for his apology, but FYI am not even sure my posts are published, now that I’ve relinquished my name to the new Patricia to use. What I get back is that my posts are “awaiting moderation.” I may be in that limbo for a long time — and this post may not see the light of day.either. Sorry!

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Most of the out of order problems stem from the fact that some people are writing their posts on site, which is why you see the page header in your email, instead of what they’re responding to.

          While other people are working strictly from email, like me. So, we don’t see where our replies are going to go. Because when you click comment in an email, it takes you to the bottom of the page on site.

          On site, you will often see no reply link in a post. In email, every post has a reply button. Emailed replies go right under the post they reply to, regardless if someone has already replied, their reply will be pushed down, as if they’re replying to your response.

          Only after you get used to his chaos can you read the board and figure out what’s really going on. So, when reading on site, don’t automatically assume that anyone is replying to the post above them, just because of the order it’s in.

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @ Lonnie –

            Lonnie, agreed. Just because a post appears below yours does not mean it is in reply to your post. If you think it is (but it doesn’t state in writing it’s a reply to your work), first check the date. Good info there.

            Here’s how I found that out. Once a “poster” I particularly admired as perceptive and articulate send in a bouquet of great praise, and it was posted just below mine.

            Now, like any needy human (and we’re all needy for at least a teaspoon of the milk of human kindness) I was quite pleased. Not “pleased as Punch,” mind you, but still pleased – and puzzled. Because my post was no stellar effort. Just a routine response to the issue.

            Why had it merited such glowing oratory?

            Then I thought to look at the date … and it wasn’t about my post at all. I had (temporarily) gained “praise through propinquity.” Sounds like a campaign slogan, yes? Well, as the old Puritan warning tells us, “pride goeth before a fall.”

            I was less of a smart-ass after that sobering discovery — oh, maybe for a whole day. But I learned, and I hope we all do, the realities you have just described in your post.

            Lonnie, thank you for the reminder.

      • ed nelson says:

        Dear Prof. Freddie, I may have said something unkind, I don’t, in this instance have a copy of it. Please send me something over the Email, if you have time, to explain it.

        I do remember that something from fauxmccoy anoyed me in a way, but I sure don’t think I would go ballistic in some way that would be injurious!

        That’s not my style!

        And of course, why would an adult be all upset by comments on a blogg, unless perhaps there was some little bit of tactical “denial” in the reaction?

        I will expect a response sir.

      • gbrbsb says:

        @PiranhaMom… if I´m understanding this correctly is that aka Patricia… the old one? (no offence intended!)

        In respect of the positioning of comments it can be bothersome and sometimes you think you are creating a new thread and it magically slots in as a reply to something not related. I think the idea you or someone else had a while back of putting @ and the name of whom it is for helped!

        • fauxmccoy says:

          the problem here was that i made a direct comment to the professor’s blog – a simple ‘is there a vomitorium nearby?’. it was a comment directed to the blog content, appeared as such, as a free standing comment and not as part of a nested thread. it appeared directly below something that mr. nelson had written and apparently he could not discern that my comment had nothing to do with him or his comment. he went on an ugly and insulting name calling tirade which the professor has now deleted.

          • gbrbsb says:

            I took your comment about the vomitorium to be about this sticky, sickly, tacky stuff from GZ but then mine wasn´t the comment above!

        • PiranhaMom says:


          Never offended, gbrbsb. Old = experienced.

          West Point plebes don’t command armies..

          • gbrbsb says:

            Or as someone once told me it´s just a matter of accumulated youth

          • gbrbsb says:

            Forgot to say, you didn´t confirm, or not, is this new name for the original Patricia, the Patricia who wrote so many long and coherent scenarios months back when we were discussing evidence most of the time?

          • PiranhaMom says:

            @ gbrbsp.

            Yes, GB, as Miss Piggy would say, “Patricia, ce’est moi.”

            I have handed off the patrician honors to the New Patricia, and acquired a screen (cyber-)name.

            “Dances With Wolves” was already out there, and “Chases Coyotes” only reminds me of my stupidity at a sport a few years back that left my ankle a painful reminder, evoked in sub-freezing climes.

            So PiranhaMom it is, and the kids in the pool keep asking, “When’s the blood coming, Mom?” but GZ hasn’t answered.

            Like GZ hasn’t answered a lotta things …

          • gbrbsb says:

            Ah, c´est toi! Formidable! Now I know who I am reading when under PiranhaMom!

          • cielo62 says:

            Beauregard knows… you have to wait for the right time. And then Manteca and blood will flow for 25 years! So sayeth the wisdom of the feline.

            Sent from my iPod

    • fauxmccoy says:

      thank you kindly, professor. i appreciate it and i am sure that sdunn does as well.

    • ed nelson says:

      Ed apologizes profusely of course! I must have gone a terror!

      Jessus, what was it anyways?, somebody didn’t like my comment where I misspelled God… as Dog? that was blasphemous, I apologise to dog, cause god don’t worry about that kind of thing, in my religion… but you can’t get far if you don’t go with the plan!

      God is watching! and he might have to send another intercessor, next time it will be the onliest “Daugther of”… ~

      • fauxmccoy says:

        ed – i have never been anything but decent and respectful towards you. i shall let the professor explain what occurred as you apparently have no memory of it.

      • ed nelson says:

        Ed really means the profuse apologie…

        Ed apologizes for all things, including things like all those things that are part of ones… little foot print, like the elements that are taken in to form a body, or the land that is used to make a residence, and so forth.

        I want to say Hi to PiranhaMom, thank you Pirana baby!

        PS: I like real didactic argumentation with lots of energy… and no the wimps don’t get to rule it!

        I guess when the little pussies get to call a halt to discourse, hey do you get what I am sayin’?

        • fauxmccoy says:

          Ed really means the profuse apologie…


          I guess when the little pussies get to call a halt to discourse, hey do you get what I am sayin’?

          ok, fred – i have officially had enough.

      • Rachael says:


      • PiranhaMom says:

        @ Professor Fred
        @ Ed Nelson
        @ fauxmccoy
        @ sdunn5

        We are an investigative class, and a recent high-octane event happened on the Professor’s website that may well be another lesson for us all:

        On November 29, 2012 at 7:39 pm Ed Nelson posted another well thought-out comment on Zimmerman, in Ed’s usual unique style.

        Immediately following it, posted at the very same instant, was fauxmccoy’s comment on Zimmerman hustling his autographs for pay:

        fauxmccoy says:
        November 29, 2012 at 7:39 pm
        is there a vomitorium near by?

        Please note that fauxmccoy’s comment followed Ed’s, but COULD NOT HAVE BEEN A RESPONSE TO ED, because a response would have taken at least a minute or two to write, and would have been time-stamped LATER than 7:39 pm.

        Note that both Ed’s and Faux’s comments came in at the same time – Faux’s must have been a second later. Unfortunately, iit was indented directly under Ed Nelson’s post, so I could see why he would take umbrage and lash out.

        I worried about that at the time, but my name was in the Witness Protection Program and I could not reach out.

        I did think fauxmccoy’s comment was both apt and witty, referencing Zimmerman’s latest gelt-grabbing scheme.
        Because I’m as old as the Bride of Methuselah, I’ll reach back in history for our younger students, like Ed, and explain that a “vomitorium” was that little room off Roman banquet halls, with running water from the aquaduct, where the overstuffed diners would stick their fingers down their throats, barf up the feast they just enjoyed – to make room for more food, drink and orgies.

        Ed’s too young to know about those old days, but Ed, that’s the old Roman version of “party hearty.” Trust me.

        Unfortunately for our class collegiality here, fauxmccoy’s apt and witty comment got sandwiched between two “think pieces” by Ed – so I expect he was livid when he read that, thinking HIS class contribution was the target.

        Then, by golly, down thread, sdunn5 chimes in, innocently agreeing with fauxmccoy – and not remotely relating to Ed Nelson’s thoughtful posts – and says “I sure as hell hope so fauxmccoy!! I can taste it in my mouth very nasty stuff!!!”

        Ed, unfortunately goes ballistic. (If you have never been close to a missile when it’s launched, you cannot imagine the power. Ed’s fury is the closest I’ve seen.)

        And yes, Ed’s verbal blast is straight out of the latrine. Really bad stuff. Need to wash your vocabulary out with Tide, my friend.

        So I hope fauxmccoy and sdunn5 are both willing to understand what happened and give Ed a break. As Cool Hand Like said,“What we have here is a failure to communicate.”

        Forgiveness and compassion are empowering; let us thus embrace them.

        Let us also remember: we are investigating, and we are learning how important timelines are.

        Namaste ….

        • fauxmccoy says:

          thank you P – i concur with your assessment, the only point on which i must differ is that my comment was not indented under one of ed’s, (see above) but was free standing. he replied my comment, apparently as a continuation of the one he posted just before mine.

        • Thanks for clarifying what happened.

          I have known Ed for several years. We met in the threads at Firedoglake and have been corresponding ever since. I look forward to reading his take on events, life in these difficult times, and the deeper questions. He is a kind and stalwart friend and he has helped Crane-Station and me financially with needed but unsolicited contributions. I am proud to call him my friend and, even though it pains me to be in this situation, I have a duty and a responsibility to this blog and to all of you to maintain it as sacred space.

          By any standard of decency and respect for others, Ed crossed the line last night. Friend or not, I am not going to allow it to pass unnoticed.

          I deleted his offensive comment and warned him privately by email that I will ban him if he crosses the line again.

      • Rachael says:

        I’m talking about:

        “PS: I like real didactic argumentation with lots of energy… and no the wimps don’t get to rule it!

        I guess when the little pussies get to call a halt to discourse, hey do you get what I am sayin’?”

        Don’t bother trying to explain. This doesn’t really concern me and I try never to read what he posts anyway.

        • jm says:

          Rachael says: “Don’t bother trying to explain. This doesn’t really concern me and I try never to read what he posts anyway.”

          I read what he posts but I never really understood it and thought maybe he was an intellectual beyond my comprehension because others seemed to understand.

          In any case, in a lot of cases it is hard to follow who is responding to who. That is why I try to use quotes to keep things straight.

      • PiranhaMom says:

        @Ed Nelson

        OK, Ed, knock off that pussy talk. You got too many cat owners here who are REAL offended. My ABC (“Awesome Beauregard Cat”) is nursing some real feline spite about how you treatin’ the ladies on this site.

        That kind talk is disruptive, and in today’s world we don’t need no disruptin’. We got important work to do – all together – researching that spithead GZ and finding Justice for Trayvon.

        Just writin’ to tell you that you don’t want my Old Beaureagard strollin’ down your way to settle a score. Remember, Old Beau is the kingfisher of the Piranha Pool.

        And Old Beau is a real shrike with his prey.

        Beau wants you to shape up, be the deep thinker and gentleman you can be, so we can keep reading your posts without having to spray them with Chlorox.

        I want that, too.

      • Rachael says:

        I’m just not seeing an apology – but then, I’m not owed one. I just find each post more offensive than the last, but maybe that is just me, because I just do not understand. We are in different planes, Ed and I.

      • sdunn5 says:

        Hi Ed Nelson, you don’t have to profusely apologize to me, But it seems you have not said sorry to sdunn5, I assume you don’t remember me? Oh I hope that is not true ed nelson because I think you post some thought provoking comments. You also seem at times to have a form of esp going on, which I would love to hear more of. I do hope we will be friends.

    • ed nelson says:

      so who the hell are you? I don’t think I said anything too bad to you, but if I might have insuled youre ass… so sorry Fellow!/Gal.

      It seems that Fauuxmccoy may be some kind of serious personage… like somebody who is connecteded with the rotton bastards/ banksters/and etc.

  13. Two sides to a story says:

    Here’s another petition to sign about FL SYG –

  14. Mike says:

    New to this board, surprised I haven’t stumbled upon this discussion earlier. I am no fan of Zimmerman, I think his actions were disgusting and this last fund raising stunt hes trying to pull is plain despicable.

    I’m no lawyer, however I think Zimmerman’s claims of being punched multiple times and having his head slammed “repeatedly” on the sidewalk is a complete fabrication of what occurred that night. Black eyes? I see none, severe bruising or swelling of the scalp? Nope not there. There is zero evidence that this epic brawl/beating ever occurred.

    Then there are statements like this:

    “I started screaming for help. I couldn’t see. I couldn’t breathe”

    “I had blood all over my face and my eyes”

    Embellish much?

    Which in my opinion, is just plain laughable. The elusive cell phone that he lost within seconds after using it…I mean really? I think that Zimmerman basically admitting that he had gain control “wrist lock” will be a major factor in the trial. I know there is alot to touch on in this case and I may be wrong about my opinions, I’m just expressing my current building frustration that a event like this ever occurred because of a egotistical idiot with a gun.

    • Welcome Mike, There are many of us who happened to “stumble” upon this site (I found it through GOOGLE) because we could no longer listen to the hate-filled GZ supporters on other sites…….and we were looking for intelligent (and oft times humorous) discussions. 🙂

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Welcome aboard Mike, here, save this link to my evidence pile, it’s in a pretty disorganized state, but browse through and you quickly be brought up to date. It’s searchable, use the box in the upper right. You’ll want to see tchoupi’s work, ScreaminJ has made transcripts of the 911 calls you’ll find interesting. and be sure to see what the martial artists have to say.

      Whenever someone posts new finds, articles, posts, timelines and videos, websites. I try to get them somewhere in there as soon as I can. Okay here’s the link

  15. colin black says:

    gbrbsb……………..gz did tell a co worker that he had been the victim of a mugger.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Fricking mugging GZ, another twist in his consciousness.

    • gbrbsb says:

      Yes, I remember… how weird… I mean why would GZ claim a mugging to colleagues but to the cops that an unknown youth out of the blue and for no reason went ballistic on him.

      Maybe next day after thinking on it he thought it would be more believable, i.e. he could say he thought Trayvon a mugger, there was a scuffle, he was shit scared so he shot in fear which would have at least been manslaughter, I think, but back at the cop shop he realised there was too much on tape to change his story… not that that´s stopped him chopping and changing. Dunno, but very weird… but then isn´t it all!

      • Xena says:

        Yes, I remember… how weird… I mean why would GZ claim a mugging to colleagues but to the cops that an unknown youth out of the blue and for no reason went ballistic on him.

        It was an effort to keep his job. There are companies that when they hear about an employee may have committed a crime, they will place the employee on leave until a decision is made by LE or the court. GZ told his employer that he was victim of a mugging, so his employer wanted a police report.

        Chances are that Sondra Osterman, who worked for the same company, mouthed off what GZ told them had happened.

        Companies that deal with merchandise, money, and personal information of others, have liability concerns. For the next 45 days or so without being charged, GZ apparently never tried returning to work.

  16. Malisha says:

    Professor, Professor, IDEA: Couldn’t the decedents of people killed in Florida in “self-defense” by people standing their ground, whether or not the shooters did get off, form a “class” so that a lawyer could take a class action against the state for encouraging murder? Is there some way to bring about the wrongful death/1983 posture into a class action lawsuit like that? Public interest lawyers to do it? There are GOOD public interest lawyers in Florida. ❓

  17. Jun says:

    Do you think the judge and jury would crack up laughing if the state showed Cheorge’s high def police station pics and mentioned that with a magnifying glass, you can see either bush twig or tree branch scratches and tell them you believe the injuries are consistent of the defendant stalking and chasing the victim and running into a tree branch or falling into a bush, hence him light bulbing to make up the story of the bush ninja which was the victim?


    I dont know if judges and juries are allowed to laugh when the defendant is telling such an idiotic bold faced lie

  18. LLMPapa says:

    The holiday gift-giving season is right around the corner, and if you’re stumped on what to get the person on your list who seems to have everything, we can guarantee they don’t have this. George Zimmerman, whom you may remember from the Trayvon Martin shooting, is offering autographed thank-you notes as a way to raise funds for his legal defense. In a post on his official website, Zimmerman claims the “George Zimmerman Defense Fund is at its lowest, and new funds must be raised to support George’s living expenses and legal costs.” According to a picture on the site, donors will quickly find their mailboxes stuffed with a note that reads, “Thank you for your support, [signed] your friend, George Zimmerman.” We’re guessing supplies will last.

    “We’re guessing supplies WILL last.” ROFLMAO!

  19. Malisha says:

    LLMPapa, right on. AND remember, they donated blankets to poor people; aren’t the media to be ashamed for maligning such wonderful folks?

  20. leander22 says:

    On a more basic note, I picked up on somebody here, forget who, who used the button to protest against the White House petition of the pro-Zimmerman camp. I reported myself as a “foreigner” who had sneaked in and voted for the Trayvon Martin petition. That I was in fact deeply irritated by the petition “against the malicious prosecution of George Zimmerman” and its implications.

    They were free to delete my support but they could not stop my mental support for an investigation of the violation of Trayvon Martin’s civil rights.

    I look at both petitions and the numbers regularly, today I found that my account and my vote have been deleted. I checked the would you like a response box, let’s see if I will hear from them.

    • looneydoone says:

      I too am a “foreigner”. Actually, I’m, just a long time expat with a foreign IP. That’s why I kept being rejected in efforts to sign Lonnie’s petition a couple of days ago, regardless of the zip code I used. ;-(

    • leander22 says:

      looney, why are you interested in me as a foreigner? If you are an indeed an expat? Maybe I do not understand your problems, since as far as I know all the Americans over here, even former Germans that came back with a German passport still hold US citizenship.

      I am no American but what exactly keeps you from simply following Lonnie Star’s advise?

      Maybe I do not understand your problem?

  21. Malisha says:

    Wow, considering what Florida did with upholding the sanctity of SYG, and considering the fact that in the year 2000 it was the voting fraud in Florida that gave rise to the appointed presidency that brought on our nation’s vulnerability to terrorism and two wars that killed and maimed thousands of our young, perhaps there should be a large campaign right now telling folks NOT TO EVER VISIT FLORIDA, and especially, for minorities, not to visit there, not to live there, not to be caught within their borders. Empty that place out and leave it to the skinheads to enjoy by themselves, and let’s the other 49 states be safe havens for rational, reasonable, non-murderous people to flock to like refugees. Stay the HELL out of Florida; It is dangerous, and you DON’T need to GO THERE!

  22. ed nelson says:

    I dunnoh, that thing keeps on goin’ on playing, at least it’s good music… great music to tell it!

  23. ed nelson says:

    [Comment removed because video does not exist]

    • ed nelson says:

      as to the song… “‘Walzing Matilda”, it was a song that related to the terrible events of ww1 @ Turkey, Galipoli. I can’t find the good documentary that shows that. but here is something:

      • Ed,

        You posted a disgusting comment last night responding to sdunn5 and fauxmccoy that I have deleted. I do not know what in hell you were thinking, but I will banish you forever if you do something like that to anyone on this blog. You are not welcome here when you have been drinking.


  24. LLMPapa says:

    If memory serves me correctly, isn’t O’Mara’s client charged with a crime committed on FEBRUARY 26, 2012?

    What does ANYTHING that happened, or didn’t happen, AFTER that date have to do with his guilt or innocence?

    • Rachael says:

      What is this in reference to? Is this in reply to a post?

      • LLMPapa says:

        No, not at all. It’s in reference to 99% of every word of the concentrated stream of smoke and mirrors rhetoric coming from O’Mara and other surrogates of an accused murderer, dealing solely with their claims of how unfair the demand for justice from a dead boy’s family and a nation have been on a poor child killer.

        It’s about growing weary of hearing this child killer’s family and attorney NEVER addressing specific aspects of the crime he’s charged with and choosing, instead, to constantly whine about that mean ole Crump and the media.

        This accused murder’s trial will be about the events of February 26, 2012, NOT what a grieving family’s attorney or this nation’s media did or didn’t do in the following days to demand justice.

        The entirety of their shuck and jive seems to equate to a similar scenario had John Wilkes Booth claimed he should be considered innocent because a mob chased him after he shot Abraham Lincoln.

      • Rachael says:


      • ChrisNY~Laurie says:

        LLMPapa- i totally agree.

    • leander22 says:

      What does ANYTHING that happened, or didn’t happen, AFTER that date have to do with his guilt or innocence?

      LLMPapa, Jeralyn Merrit “reawakend” on the latest sponsorship, or the results of a brainstorming what went wrong and stopped the money flows by team O’Mara. She actually suggests, that there may be legal issues involved. Jeralyn’s translation:

      My translation: O’Mara was fine with accepting donations, but as a lawyer, actively soliciting funds can be dicey. By removing the fund from his lawyer’s trust account and control, George can avoid many of the restrictions contained in the rules of professional responsibility applicable to lawyers, particularly as to what can be said about his case publicly.

      Admittedly I arrived somehow independently in the vicinities of her argument, pondering about the latest developments.

      Concerning your statement. That hits to the very core of the Team Zimmerman “disinformation campaign” about “media disinformation” which for me only mirrors GZ’s disappointment that the case after he willingly offered his tale wasn’t as he expected closed forever without any legal consequences for him.

      Concerning the Frances Robles’ headline: To pay legal bills, George Zimmerman plans to sell autographs

      II wish she will seriously warn the staff in charge of the headlines, that they choose their words more carefully in this context. Since every little mistake they make will be picked up by defense in their own disinformation campaign. Frances in fact wrote:

      The plan to send autographed cards in exchange for donations was revealed Wednesday on Zimmerman’s legal defense fund’s website, managed by his defense attorney, Mark O’Mara.

  25. Jun says:

    Florida – the state where all the killers aren’t the gang members, they are the people who want to claim self defense and gun down people

    • gbrbsb says:

      Looking at all the cases open at this time I would say…

      “…they are the people who want to claim self defence while doing some ethnic cleansing at the same time!

    • jm says:

      Jun says: “Florida – the state where all the killers aren’t the gang members, they are the people who want to claim self defense and gun down people.”

      With people like Chorge and Dunn gunning down black teens, this will only encourage more gangs to defend against the white haters with guns who are protected by SYG laws. It looks like Florida has the potential to be one huge battleground in the near future. IMO It would be in Florida’s best interest to ensure these killers are prosecuted and imprisoned as an example to other white racists who feel superior and fearless with a gun and SYG on their side.

  26. Malisha says:

    Grahase, re: your suggestion to send a dollar to Fogen so he has to send out a thank-you note, let me tell an old favorite joke.

    A postman had a certain route in a suburban neighborhood for ten years. Everybody but one house gave him a Christmas tip. OK, no big deal, it happens. Then all of a sudden on December 23, this certain year, the woman who lived in that house popped out the front door when he was making his delivery, and she said, “Oh Hi, are you our postman?”

    P: Yes.

    L: Would you like to come in for a cup of coffee and a donut?

    He was cold and tired and glad to stop in for a break, so he did. She gave him coffee and a donut and excused herself for a minute, coming back in an alluring black negligee.

    L: Would you like to step into the bedroom with me for a while?

    He was quite happy to do so and she seduced him, after which, she asked, “Would you like another cup of coffee and another donut?” He readily accepted.

    While he was having his second snack, she handed him a dollar bill. He was astonished.

    P: What’s that for?

    L: Your Christmas tip!

    P: I could never take money from you!

    L: But my husband told me to give it to you.

    P: [Baffled and a little frightened] HUSBAND? HUH?

    L: Yes. I told him this morning that the neighbors said everybody gave you a Christmas tip, and I asked him what I should do, and he said, “Fuck him; give him a dollar.”

    • grahase says:

      Lovin it! I am a Letter Carrier Supervisor in Canada and will spread that one around. During our busiest time of the year, humour in the workplace is invaluable. How did you know I was a Postie. 12 Degrees F. with light snow right now. Today will be one of those days when every customer on the street will say — Cold enough for ya Postie!

      • Malisha says:

        Who knows, Grahase, maybe there will be some “Christmas tips” to warm you up.

      • leander22 says:

        I was really puzzled by “Fogen”, would any of you care to explain the usage of it?

        But grahase, concerning paypal, I think inside a country they only deduct 3 percent for transfers.It gets slightly more expensive I think an additional 7 percent if your transfer involves exchange rates from one currency to another. So strictly he gets 97 cents for each dollar. Paypal wouldn’t have been able to succeed if they were asking for a 30 percent rate of the transfers.

    • gbrbsb says:

      ROTFL… very funny!

    • blushedbrown says:


  27. grahase says:

    How about setting up a kissing booth or knitting mitts to sell at a craft fair. How about running for office.

  28. PiranhaMom says:

    @ Professor,
    @ Patricia,

    Looks like it worked (if it gets out of moderation).

  29. PiranhaMom says:

    Professor, the new Patricia would like to be “Patricia New” (or variant chosen thereof). I’ll be pleased to second that motion and abandon “Patricia” so she can use it as she wishes.

    I assume we just change the name(s) in the box below.

    So, I’ll give it a try …

  30. grahase says:

    Substitute guns for marijuana. It has been proven that crime rates will decrease.

    • Malisha says:

      I would think the reverse would be true. Take away guns and give those folks a joint so they can calm down a little.

      I remember the police at UVA telling my son, when he had to restrain a drunk and bring him into the UVA Medical Center to prevent him from beating up a woman at a frat party, “I wish these kids would go back to smoking weed; then they don’t get violent.” My kid laughed because he was so young he didn’t know the connection between alcohol and violence, and was hearing a cop extolling the virtues of marijuana. But it seems that when the students all get drunk they get into fights like Brits when the bar closes; when they all smoke up, they sit at home in a circle and giggle about the “oh wow” stuff together and eat krispy kreme donuts!

    • Jun says:

      They also need to amend self defense laws due to abuse. There are too many idiots and a lot of dead people.

    • gbrbsb says:

      Ir seems to me that the professor has resumed one of the most important pieces of evidence in this case:

      “Yet, Trayvon had no reason to attack him since HE HAD NO WEAPON of any kind and HE HAD SUCCESSFULLY ELUDED HIM.”

      A jury would have to consider it was beyond a reasonable doubt that a 17 year old with no history of violence or criminal record, on his way back from shopping for his younger half brother whom he was in effect looking after, and who was minutes before chatting normally with his girlfriend on his mobile, had first run away and eluded GZ (confirmed by GZ and DD), had then, without prior knowledge that GZ would even leave his car let alone take the same route, lie in wait for him and then when he is near jump out at this unknown heavier older male stranger, not to mug or rob him which GZ has never claimed, but to, without any weapons, punch him on the nose, something which any sane person knows would more often than not elicit a physical response, and with his bare hands alone try to kill him.

      What juror in their right mind could believe it except if Trayvon were proved to be:

      1) A Psychotic or other mental disorder
      2) A cruel and vicious no morals gangster/thug/mafioso/theif
      3) On very heavy drugs / alcohol

      For none of which there is any evidence whatsoever and why they are so desperately trying to find anything, however weak, e.g. the MMA video O´Money refers to.

      Professor or anyone who has the answer; if a Jury with all the above “evidence” combined with the forensics and the analysis of timelines etc., still found GZ innocent is there any judicial recourse? I mean can a jury be found to have not acted impartially, been corrupt, racist… etc., Is, as I believe is the case in the UK, a Judge able to recommend and bar certain verdicts, i.e. to order a jury the can find between manslaughter and murder 1 but bar them from a finding of “not guilty”.

      • Malisha says:

        Right, right, right, and even if Trayvon Martin had MMA training and was every bit a sluggerthug, here is how it would have come out:

        Because if you’re trained to use a loaded gun and you carry a loaded gun, you walk around knowing you have a loaded gun and you can use it. But if you’re trained in the martial arts, you walk around knowing you are an expert at fighting and you can use it. So Trayvon Martin, if he were trained in the martial arts, would not have told DeeDee he was being followed and was creeped out; he would have said, “I’ll call you back” and then prepared himself for a fight. If George approached, he would not have said, “Why are you following me for” or “What’s your problem homie” either one: He would have settled the problem with one high-kick or its equivalency, and then phoned 911, and then gone home to await the arrival of the police.

        • gbrbsb says:

          Absolutely Malisha, and you can bet your life, and mine too, that if Trayvon had been trained in MMA and had really wanted to attack and harm GS, as GZ wants us to believe with his cock and bull story, and not just defend himself from or get control of GZ, then GZ would have had a hell of a lot more injuries than two pathetic little scratches on the back of his head and a tiny nick and a bit of blood, (if it was his), from his nose.

          I saw the video of Etherly´s arrest, and the cop really smashed him into his eye and nose which in minutes had swollen and blackened. But even with gloves on the cop didn´t hit with his fist which could have resulted in damaged/broken fingers, but with the lower arm right up near the elbow. Someone who is trained in any kind of fighting learns to protect their hands and any really important body parts. It is insulting that GZ thinks there are enough idiots to believe his s**t.

    • gbrbsb says:

      Any ideas what to do about my comment here that I just noticed has erroneously been slotted as a reply to your comment about marijuana… apropos I agree 100%… when in my youth I dabbled, my friends and I laughed a lot, ate a lot, and slept a lot, and never once saw a fight except when older people drunk.

  31. Lonnie Starr says:

    New Petition up. “Leathermanistas” get first dibs on signing:
    we petition the obama administration to:
    Constitutionally Ban “Stand Your Ground” Laws.

    Since the Stand Your Ground laws have been passed in many states, there have been many shootings that appear to have been inspired by these laws. While many of these shootings are not, in fact, covered by these laws, there are likely also some that were not prosecuted, because law enforcement authorities felt, that they lacked the resources to meet the higher standards required to win convictions. It being too easy to concoct a claim of fear for ones own life, while their claimed assailant/opponent is likely to have expired and be unable to testify otherwise.

    Making investigations heavily time and resource consuming exercises that not every jurisdiction can shoulder. Potentially letting criminals go free.

    Created: Nov 29, 2012
    Issues: Civil Rights and Liberties, Criminal Justice and Law Enforcement, Firearms

    Remember we need 150 votes to go live, so spread the word everywhere you go, look for news reporters to have email links. Cover blogs, message boards, comments and emails, this is a word of mouth campaign. This is for the big one we need 25k in 30 days. Blast facebook and twitter like rabid racoons.

    • Rachael says:

      “Dozens of states have passed such laws in the past 10 years.

      But critics say the laws could significantly raise the stakes for teenagers engaging in stupid pranks and petty crime. . . a Texas A&M University study this summer found that homicide rates had risen by an average of 7 to 9 percent in states that enacted such laws. The causes were not clear, but the authors of the study suggested that “perhaps the most obvious form of escalation – and one most commonly cited by critics of castle doctrine law – is that conflicts or crimes that might not have otherwise turned deadly may now do so”

      • Patricia says:

        @ Rachael, from Patricia I –

        Rachael, I know how busy you must be, completing your course in legal contracts. Tough stuff!

        But when you get a breather, try Googling “A Modest Proposal” by Jonathan Swift.

        Also Google: how many pints of blood in the human body?

        My Modest Proposal still stands: 16 pints at one draw from GZ nets him $4,000. Better than the $50/pint the storefronts pay.

        How many signatures would he have to sell to make $4,000, now that the smart Grahase has run the numbers for Dollar contributions? 40,000?

        My deal is a better deal – and he can accomplish it lying down.

        If I get a Swift reply, we can talk about you writing the contrct.

      • grahase says:

        Patricia and Rachael — How much would Our Macho Friend make by a daily donation to a sperm bank. Just trying to be helpful you know.

        • PiranhaMom says:

          @ grahase –
          (from old Patricia with a new ID)

          Now, with sperm, grahase, you’re looking for quality.

          On that basis, what do you think Zimmermans’s sperm is worth? Maybe a NEGATIVE $10,000 per itty bitty swimmer? (Ova are picky these days about penetrators.)

          Keep in mind that all the added weight he’s loading on is repressing his sperm production by adding estrogen. A d-a-i-l-y donation? I don’t think he could be up to that performance.

          Whatever he could get, I’m not holding his hand through that session.

      • grahase says:

        Both Shellie and he can sign up as team mascots or circus clowns and their faces need never be revealed. In short, there are many things the family can do to pay for their own living expenses incognito. With the money they have gathered by begging, many families across the country could have used it to rebuild their lives after surviving the natural disasters of late experienced. They too are victims – why are people donating to someone who is NOT a victim by any stretch of the imagination.

      • Rachael says:

        Grahase, the thought of his sperm at avsperm bank fills me with horror. The onlyvway he shpuld be allowed to donaye to a sperm bank would be if they promised to destry it. What if they missed a tube? Omg, could you imagine litte zims running around? Heck,.they sjould pay him NOT to donate.

        • Xena says:

          Grahase, the thought of his sperm at avsperm bank fills me with horror.

          Not to worry. A side effect of Adderall is reduced sex drive.

          • jm says:

            Xena says: “Not to worry. A side effect of Adderall is reduced sex drive.”

            The very idea that these ShelLIE and Chorge would produce a child sickens me.

            With or without Adderall, Chorge doesn’t look capable of doing anything that requires energy. He could barely waddle out of the courtroom since his weight gain and whatever other psych medications he seems to be on.

      • Rachael says:

        Ack – I’ve got to stop texting from my phone. Sorry for all the misspells. Anyway, if he really wants to solicit money, maybe he should ask the sperm banks to pay him to NEVER donate sperm. If every sperm bank in the US paid him NOT to donate, he would make a “killing.”

        excuse my poor attempt at humor, it’s 2 am here.

      • Rachael says:

        LOL – Okay Patricia, I get it.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Yes Rachael and it gets even worse than that. Lots more shooting rise from the fact that, people are using a mistaken view of the law in the first place. Even LEO’s are disheartened, when looking at the level of investigative research that will have to be done, to expose a liar who is using the law to cover up a crime. An exercise made all the more difficult, because one of the parties is no longer around to bear witness.

        Even a small number of such shooting can easily over tax local investigative resources. Hardly a wonder it is demoralizing to LE authorities. While the more of these shooting that occur, without redress, the more empowered shooters will feel they are able to do.

        The upshot of it will be to make it impossible to walk the streets without fear that someone might shoot you, no trip to the mall no supermarket shopping. We each, effectively become, our brothers jailers, an intolerable situation to be sure.

        Eventually the only way out will be to ask our authorities to assume absolute power and take all weapons away. As the only way we can get to go about our daily business. How ironic is that? That the 2nd amendment will be used to take America back into dictatorship.

        The fact is, we don’t even need to reach the extremes to suffer a great loss of individual rights. But that’s where we’re headed if we don’t turn things back very soon. The conservatives have a good head start or ruining America, by canceling the checks and balances that made individual freedom possible.

    • grahase says:

      Done: I will Twitter.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Thanks. I’m trying to cover blogs like Crooks and Liars comment board, but there are other blogs like alternet and truthout that need some coverage too. These blogs have many articles where the petition is relevant. I doubt I can cover them all in a timely fashion, so fan out gang and let’s get the job done. We don’t want the 2nd Amendment to become the nations undoing. We need to restore the checks and balances that once kept these shooters at bay.

        In this case there was plenty of evidence and there may have been LE malfeasance in play. But, realize that there are other cases in smaller jurisdictions where resources can quickly be eviscerated by just a shooting or two, by the amount of detailed lab work and professional testimony required to speak for the party that died and cannot testify on their own behalf. The more shooter go free, the more likely it is that more will be empowered to do something themselves, causing the problem to “snowball” like a snowball rolling down a hill, gathering size as it goes.

        At some point we will become each others jailers, as we become too afraid of what each other might be thinking in public places. We won’t be able to safely go outside our homes. The burdensome fear as we try to go about our daily routines, will devolve into a demand that leaders take absolute power to deal with the threat. The Conservatives will have done to the nation, exactly what they’ve long wanted to do, make a totalitarian society of America.

        Spread the link and the word far and wide, this is a “flash point” petition, not designed to ask for anything the White house can do by executive powers, but to empower those who can do something to act. Thanks for all that you do.

      • gblock says:

        And just think: it was only a couple of weeks ago that the “Stand your ground” task force said that only minor change in the law were needed.

    • Malisha says:

      Lonnie S, I don’t want to be a “wet blanket” but the way to challenge the SYG laws is to get a lawyer or a public interest law organization to take one case of one SYG law up in one state so that it is primed to get into the US Supreme Court, and then hit it with 40, 50 or 60 amicus curiae briefs. I’ll look into the idea in a week or two and post here. Let me think it out. It has to do with depriving someone of their LIFE INTEREST without due process of law. This is novel stuff. Let me think it out.

      • Xena says:

        You make an excellent point. This week, I’ve pondered the idea of whether SYG is unconstitutional. There is nothing the federal government can do about the rights of the states to legislate that law unless it goes before SCOTUS on a challenge of unconstitutionality.

        There’s nothing wrong with the Castle Doctrine, but when the law gives armed citizens the right to use deadly force anywhere, we can anticipate murders everywhere.

      • Rachael says:

        Xena – check this out:

        On Tuesday the federal appeals court in New York ruled that there is no fundamental right to carry a handgun outside your home. Kachalsky v. City of Westchester, No. 11-3642.

        Gun advocates like the National Rifle Association and the Second Amendment Foundation have been suing states and cities across the country, saying that “the Second Amendment does not stop at one’s doorstep” and that there is an unlimited right to carry handguns in public. They argue that the Second Amendment right to bear arms was the same as the First Amendment right to free speech. In other words: if the government can’t license the right to speak, it cannot limit the right to carry a handgun.

        So far, the NRA is shooting blanks.

        The federal court ruled that – for public safety reasons – New York State can require applicants for a concealed-carry gun license to spell out a particular need for self-protection. A simple desire to carry a concealed weapon for self-protection isn’t enough.

        The federal court said that the core protection in the Second Amendment is “the right of law-abiding, responsible citizens to use arms in the defense of the hearth and home.” The New York law applies to handguns in public.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        …And, of course, you are right Malisha! That is why I decided to make the petition anyway, to create a “flash point” if you will, where sentiment can be shown. That will go a long way towards empowering the legal eagles to move on it, knowing that there is widespread support for the effort has to be a big help.

        The secondary effect of this law, as I’ve outlined above, is that we will essentially become each others jailer. Keeping each other off the streets, and away from one anther, for fear of one another. Leading us to finally demand that authorities take absolute power, as the only way to make the streets safe once again.

        The violence can only escalate as the resources needed to fully investigate each event, climbs beyond what local governments are capable of supporting. Further hamstrung by a lack of witnesses in many cases, since the only one available is dead.
        We can only see more people going free, for crimes they actually committed, but could not be properly investigated.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        , , , US soldiers have less leeway and more rules of engagement under conditions of war than US citizens do under SYG laws . . .

      • I know. This just gives license to the arrogant-control freak-nutcases to do, or say, anything that they want, and dare anyone to utter any sound of exasperation for fear of being shot for it. They know that they can get away with murder and they will taunt people until they get an angry response from them and then shoot them. For the truly twisted ones, it will become like a game……kind of like flushing out birds from the tall weeds and then picking them off as they try to escape. Unless SYG is overturned, this country is going to evolve into a real nightmare situation. Even those of us who never would have considered owning a gun might have to seriously consider it now.

  32. Xena says:

    Professor, please check your email.

  33. Rachael says:

    That outhouse has me in tears. There is one vile supposed to be funny advertisement for Black Pampers that is truly disgusting, posted by the person who runs the site and says that there should be nothing racist posted and then I read Julison’s response to his questions that they totally tore to pieces.

    Are there REALLY people like this? Could they be living next door to me?

    I just want to cry.

    • Xena says:

      Rachael, I don’t want to go over there because they are FILTH. Twisting, lying, mocking, is their nature.

    • Malisha says:

      Rachael, buck up. Their antics are the defensive behaviors of the kind of people who dream of being a Fogen. There are people like this all over the place. Always have been. When a society lets them get out of control, poof, you have the kind of country that gets into a war where their economy is destroyed, their people are shamed for a century, and their reputation in the world community goes right down the toilet. But in this particular case, they have no power except the power of criminality and the fact that there will be a very public punishment for their hero will show that the power of criminality that they had came to no good.

      They do live next door to you. Like the “sociopath next door.” But that’s why you have a door. And we’ll be all right. Julison did the right thing to say what he wanted; we all know he’s right and more than 75% of Americans understand that and a very few Americans think like the Outhousers and that’s life.

      Here’s a joke for you:

      An Outhouser walks into a bar. The bartender gives him a shot. When the police arrive, the bartender says, “I’m still standing my ground.”

    • Patricia says:

      Don’t cry Rachael ! Those vile hateful people are George’s monsters hiding in his little pea brain

    • Jun says:

      They’re messed up people

      kind of sad but you cant help people who dont want to help themselves

      Funny thing is that some of the blogs have outed the identities of the people posting that nonsense LMAO

      They finna end up like Denise Helms and the UCLA girl who said all those racist things

    • Yep….these are the folks who post the Lord’s Prayer every few days and also try to convince everyone that they are “good Christians”……because they say so!

  34. grahase says:

    If the NRA insists that guns don’t kill people, people kill people, then changes should be made. Obviously, there needs to be better control on who gets a CWP.

    My Mom is in her 90s and closely follows the news. I will give you her Canadian perspective – Why the hell are they spending so much money to prevent terrorism threatening them when the problem with the US is that the terrorists are American nut-cases carrying guns.

    • Looolooo says:

      We’ve got Zimmerman, and Canada has Magnotta. Seems as though our two countries are more alike than unalike.

      • grahase says:

        There are murders in every country of the world. Are all countries (including Canada) like the USA. No. Why do you harp on the subject of Canada being like the USA.

      • grahase says:

        I certainly would not compare Magnotta with Zimmerman!

      • Looolooo……In the beginning the Canadian officials let Magnotta slip away. Animal rights advocates, the Barbi twins, worked with other animal rights folks around the world to track this down this monster. He had been posting “crush” videos on line of him feeding live kittens to snakes and also putting kittens into a plastic bag and then vaccuming the air out and suffocating them. The animal rights people tried to tell the Canadian officials that serial killers very often are also animal abusers/killers and gave the officials the information of his location, based on the videos…….and the officials dismissed it.
        Until……..Magnotta started on a human victim.

      • gblock says:

        I’ve read that it is common for serial killers and others who kill in particularly heinous ways to start out by torturing and killing animals.

      • gbrbsb says:

        @grey winter sky
        Know nothing of Magnotta and by the sound of him I don´t want to (I get nightmares) but for years I realised that if a person can show such vile cruelty to defenceless animals, it´s just a matter of time until they show it to humans. I believe It´s a known fact that psychopaths are very often cruel to insects and animals as children.

    • Jun says:

      Dont know if it is true but there is supposedly more guns per capita than the states and we have less gun crimes per capita than the states in Canada

    • ed nelson says:

      Hi Lonnie, what does “follow” mean?

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        When they start a new article, you may not be caught up with your mail, and so you may have nothing to say yet. Post “follow” as the simplest way to subscribe to the new thread.

      • Rachael says:

        Why though – what will it do?

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          It will give you a chance to click the “Notify me of follow-up comments via email.” button under your comment, which only appears after you type something. It’s the easiest way to sign onto new threads.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          New threads are posted regularly on wordpress blogs, because when a thread gets very long, it takes a long time to load. So we all move over to the newer thread and let the old one go dormant.

      • Xena says:

        If you click “Notify me of follow-up comments via email,” you will receive comments posted via email without having to come to the blog and catch up. It’s also good doing it that way because you can click “Reply” in the email and the program nests it in the proper thread.

      • Rachael says:

        Thanks Xena

      • gbrbsb says:

        I´ve been meaning to ask the same for ages. But if you sign up to emails don´t you get overwhelmed with posts? Is it easier to keep up… I scroll up and down to see if there´s anything new but it is time consuming.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          You can scroll up and down on site and still not see everything that comes in. Some posts get held in moderation if they have two or more links, etc. By email you see them all. Whether they’re posted on site or by email. You get to take your time in answering them with email and you miss nothing.

          Only problem is your inbox can get really full (had 375 messages one day). So I created a folder on thunderbird and a filter that sends these blog messages to it. Most mail programs let you do that and it’s worth the time it takes to read the manual and figure out how to do it. Otherwise you’ll have a devil of a time sorting out your mail.

          Now I do my inbox and after I’m finished and have the time, I can open my blog folders and go to it.

          Another thing about email is; I delete posts to trash after I’ve answered them, but if I think of another/better reply, I can just fish the related post out of the trash folder and there’s the reply button. You always get a reply button with email, you don’t always have one on site.

          • cielo62 says:

            Lonnie- I also just read via email and respond. And yes! 300+ messages can get pretty hairy. But I find each one interesting and worth the effort. I’m not the brightest student here but at least I persevere.

            Sent from my iPod

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Well, I too read them all, I just don’t have to devote so much time, because I’ve got them in a folder I can go to when I have nothing to do, or think of something to say. Reading onsite, however, is a real chore, when you know that they’re out of order and that more will come in. You even see people reply to themselves to correct minor imperfections. Best to only reply to yourself if you catch a major imperfection or if you left something important out.

            In any event, it’s best reading by mail. You miss nothing and things make better sense, without having to figure out where the reply really belongs. Of course videos don’t play. So, look up where you see the word “Comments” as a link and click on it, that will take you right to that comment in the thread, the video should be a little way up thread from there.

      • gblock says:

        Yeah, I do the same. I don’t want my participation in this blog to generate tons of email.

  35. grahase says:

    Trayvon Martins killer even has an eBay account for the leftover ones that never sold.

  36. Rachael says:

    “A large market exists for the signatures of people involved in a high profile trials. The signatures of notorious criminals like Charles Manson and John Wayne Gacy can be valuable, Greg Albach of SignHereAutographs told ABC News.

    The signed thank you notes from Zimmerman, who has not been convicted of any crime and insists he is innocent, won’t rise to that level, he said.

    ” ‘It’s pretty tacky,” said Albach. “You could probably get maybe 10 to 25 bucks for it.’ ”

  37. Patricia says:

    @ Rachael,

    Re buying Zimmerman’s blood, I don’t think it’s that complicated.

    It was only A Modest Proposal

    • Rachael says:

      I think getting involved with anything that has to do with GZ would be complicated. Even if it was just a joke, I wouldn’t trust him. And if it was for real, I would treat it like it were the most complicated thing on earth, because – well, don’t mind me, next week is my last week of contracts and I have learned to take nothing and no one anyone says without a contract, and especially something to do with ethics and GZ because ethics (like 3rd party sale of blood) and GZ should never be even mentioned in the same sentence.

      • Rachael says:

        Ethics and GZ just do not mix.

      • Patricia says:

        @ Rachael –

        Offering to buy 16 pints of Zimmerman’s blood was not a joke. Just A Modest Proposal.

        I’m expecting a Swift reply.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          We’re fast becoming a nation where one won’t be able to walk down the street without fear of being shot for one reason or another. In such a nation, we will each become each others “jailers” and be required to beg authorities to take absolute power, just so we can get out of the house. That’s the way that SYG is taking the nation, we need to nip this thing in the bud.

          Ironic isn’t it? That strict enforcement of the 2nd amendment would lead to giving the gov’t absolute power to take away guns. But that’s the way things are going to go, if left to their own devices.

          Sign the anit SYG petition and spread the word near and far.

      • grahase says:

        Send him a dollar. He has to pay 30 cents for the Paypal transaction. Then, he has to post the card – whatever postage is. Then, there is the cost of the card itself. His fund-raising could be a very losing proposition.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Yeah, with less than 30 cents left on each donation, the manpower easily eats up the rest. But, remember, you have to actually request the signed thank you or they don’t have to send it. In that case 30 cents per, just accumulates without a burden. Besides, paypal lets you set a minimum so you can ensure a profit. I’d have to guess they figured this out in advance.

      • Rachael says:

        If you are serious, I still say not to venture into it without legal advice. You want a contract in writing with everything spelled out as clearly as can be so he does not come back and try to say it was coercion or economic duress. He may not be able to because giving blood is legal so you would not be making an illegitimate threat, but again, it might be considered unethical to pay someone to give blood and he is lawyered up and will find a way to use it against you if he can. I can’t believe you are serious, but if you are, you are on a very slippery slope and you should be very careful.

    • gblock says:

      Patricias, with regards to the duplicate name: when you create a comment, there is a 3-line “Fill in your details below” field below the field for the comment itself. The second line is the name under which the comment is posted. If you are already logged in to this site, it will be pre-filled, but it looks like you should be able to modify it. It is true that the quilt avatars are different colors, but I’m not sure that will be noticed if the reader doesn’t know to look for it.

      • PiranhaMom says:

        Tried that with a new name, but my posts are now left “in moderation.” Will just have to see what hapens. Thanks!

  38. katieunc says:

    If GZ does profit from this ridiculous stunt; can this be brought up at trial? George is the poster child for a psychopath!

  39. grahase says:

    The killer of Jordan Davis is a member of the NRA with a Concealed Weapons Permit.

    • Xena says:

      IMO, Dunn’s attorney acts and talks like a drug addict.

      • grahase says:

        I had the same impression – either a crack addict or alcoholic. I know why he ran. Not because he thought he had done wrong. He ran because he was more than likely drunk and driving. He was more worried about a DUI ( a vehicle is also a deadly weapon) than murdering 1 kid (could have been more). He is a gun-collector and member of the NRA. – no sweat, Stand your ground – 70 per cent are successful. This is also a must watch closely.

      • grahase says:

        Xena – The lawyer for the the murder of Jordan Russell Davis has a lawyer (for those who have not seen her) named Lemonidis. In 1992, she was awarded the – Pride In Excellence Award – by — wait for it, wait for it….. Wolfinger, yes, the one and only.

      • Tzar says:

        well if 4 black guys in a car is such a scary sight…then why are you ordering said four black guys to lower their music? why that would be like following…sorry, I mean, going in the same direction as, a threatening, high on drugs, possibly armed individual in a rainy, dark night.

        • Xena says:

          well if 4 black guys in a car is such a scary sight…then why are you ordering said four black guys to lower their music?

          That’s the thing Tzar — they are only scary if they don’t say “Yessir” and immediately obey.

      • Jun says:

        There’s a reason he is held without bail

        the presumption is great for his guilt

        The kids were no threat to him and there were remaining witnesses

        he was obviously intending on killing all of them to leave no witnesses, but besides the witnesses in the car, there were witnesses at the gas station, and the mere fact he shot that many times

        You dont shoot that many times with no intention of harm, when directed at a car full of kids

        and he ran because he did not want to get caught, which is why he tried to skip town

      • jm says:

        Xena says: “IMO, Dunn’s attorney acts and talks like a drug addict.”

        She looks terrible, not sure if it is drugs or alcohol. She looks like a badly aging prostitute.

      • gblock says:

        “well if 4 black guys in a car is such a scary sight…then why are you ordering said four black guys to lower their music?”

        Not only that, but he apparently pulled in beside them after they were already parked. If they bothered him so much – whether they were scary-looking or just had obnoxiously loud music – couldn’t he have parked further away?

        • Xena says:

          Not only that, but he apparently pulled in beside them after they were already parked. If they bothered him so much – whether they were scary-looking or just had obnoxiously loud music – couldn’t he have parked further away?

          People like Dunn and GZ believe they are entitled. They take authority over others when they have none, and teach their victims a lesson about not submitting to their imagined authority by killing them.

          • jm says:

            Xena says: “People like Dunn and GZ believe they are entitled. They take authority over others when they have none, and teach their victims a lesson about not submitting to their imagined authority by killing them.”

            I wonder if they were unarmed they would be so likely to take authority over others. Underneath it all I think they probably both are insecure weasels with mental issues.

          • PiranhaMom says:


            “I wonder if they were unarmed they would be so likely to take authority over others. Underneath it all I think they probably both are insecure weasels with mental issues.”

            Yep, JM. If they don’t have a gun between their legs, they strap one on their ass (Zimmerputz) or keep one in the glove compartment (Dunn).

            Definitely dealing with FD (fortitude deficiency).

          • Xena says:

            I wonder if they were unarmed they would be so likely to take authority over others.

            Sure they would, probably by calling the police and profiling, like GZ did on his NEN call. In the alternative, they would cut tires, break windows — cause property damage in retribution for having their imagined authority challenged.

  40. ladystclaire says:

    These stand your ground laws are making this a nation of Lawlessness instead of a nation of laws. the second case in less than a year of Trayvon’s murder has taken place and, I’m afraid that if these two cowards are not convicted for their crimes of murder, there will be others who will do the very same thing and yell SYG or self defense when there will be no clear cut evidence to say it was either one. police who searched the van in which the other 17 year old and his friends were riding in, searched the vehicle and they did not find a weapon in the vehicle in which they were suppose to have pulled a shotgun on him. his attorney swears there was a shot gun involved, per her lying client.

    • ed nelson says:

      Au contrare Barney! Burnette.

      The slackening of law, and slack observance of Law, well… Maybe it’s better to pack a heater!

    • Rachael says:

      Oh there have been more than 2 cases since Trayvon – there have been 130 in Florida alone since the law was passed in 2010 – and Florida is not the only state with SYG laws.

      It is becoming a free-for-all and there is a reason the law is nicknamed “shoot first.”

      It is disgusting.

      Anyway, here is a good read – assuming I am posting the right link.

      • Jun says:

        I agree self defense is needed, but so many people are abusing the law

        It should also never be available to a person who instigates danger on another and starts it, such as in this occasion where Zimmerman stalked and harassed and threatened and terrorized this kid before killing him

        They should also throw in extra penalties if it is found a murder was committed and they lied about the SYG claim

        say you make a false SYG claim, you get an extra 10 years tacked on automatically

        They need to also look at the level of force used, and their should be a measure of what is reasonable

        They should also enact laws of desecrating human remains, such as when Cheorge was molesting Trayvon’s body by rubbing his hands all over the dying kid

      • Rachael….GOOD article! Thank you for posting it. Most of the victims were unarmed….most of the killers were armed.
        The Stand Your Ground law has to be done away with before too many more innocent people are done away with.

  41. Tzar says:

    5 star article as always

  42. Tzar says:

    Vile grotesquery!

  43. Xena says:

    As my mom used to say, GZ “doesn’t have the sense God gave a goat.”

    First,when donations dwindled, he should have thought of options and alternatives. He could ask his supporters in Seminole County to provide him with free housing. He could ask for donations of food and clothing to be sent to O’Mara. He could ask if any business owner that supports him needs customer service calls that he can do from home.

    Second, when depending on people to provide funds, legitimate folks hold fund raisers. They contact churches, community groups, organizations, the local Chamber of Commerce, Rotary Club, Moose Hall, — the place where they mentored — and ask if they will hold a cupcake sale, or spaghetti dinner, or even a community wide garage sale with proceeds donated to “the cause.”

    If they can’t do it themselves, they ask their supporters to hold the fund raisers.

    Third, in desperate times, they sell raffle tickets to raffle off their television, CD collection, fur coat, designer purse — stuff like that. If they want to raise $5,000, they sell 500 tickets at $10 each. Some people might purchase more than one ticket.

    But, GZ is a beggar — a panderer — a self-centered loser who thinks that his needs rate above the needs of others. His supporters have no business knowledge and can’t organize “Bikers for Zimmermans” selling hot dogs after reaching their destination.

    • Tzar says:

      none of that sounds like “the good life”

    • ed nelson says:

      Yeah ok, but don’t you think maybe he’s just a piece a crap ahole?

      And:…. He ain’t that much alone either!! These monsters are out there/inthere too!!…

      The country is pretty much taken over by em!!

    • grahase says:

      Being the god-fearing church-goer the former choir boy is, one would imagine his church rallying around for him. I think no one has because they know him. Friends, co-workers. Nope. None. Oh yeah — Osterman.

    • ladystclaire says:

      @Xena, GOD bless your mom, my late mother would say the same thing about a person like Zimmerman.

      • Xena says:

        My mom died in 1989, but I still remember those old sayings. Another one I remember that applies to GZ is “A lone wolf is still a wolf. It will look for a pack and once finding one, it will try taking over.”

        I suppose that O’Mara might feel that way about now.

    • Vicky says:

      I have a question. Once GZ offered to sell his autograph, doesn’t that mean the money sent is no longer a gift? If so, then isn’t all money received from this point forward taxable income, since he has turned his name into a business enterprise?

      • Xena says:

        The donations were never gifts because he asked for them. Some states have laws against pandering. GZ is an internet panderer.

      • Rachael says:

        GZ is getting around the “selling” aspect by saying he is merely sending a thank you note to people who send him money. However, he did not send thank you notes in the past to his supporters and he has not put a dollar amount on the “sale” of such, so he might just get around it that way.

        As far as I know, there is no law against asking for donations as an individual as long as you don’t misrepresnet yourself as non profit and you pay your income taxes.

        But it is really tacky.

      • I believe the autographed card is considered a “thank-you gift” for the donation and that he is not actually selling the autographed card itself.

      • Rachael says:

        Thats what he wants it to be,.grey winter sky, but AFAIC, he is selling it. He didnt give signed thank you cards to people who contrubuted before and while there is no reason not to now, the fact that he ANNOUNCED that he would and did so saying it is in an effort to make money says to me he is selling ir.

      • Vicky says:

        Zena, although I wish GZ had a federal tax liability on the $$ donated to him, I checked into that issue back when his PayPal account was disclosed. I’m doubting his donors exceeded the maximum annual “gift” amount, so there is no federal tax liability. The “pick-up” tax in Florida is equal to whatever exclusion the federal government allows during that given year. I believe right now that translates to no tax owed if the total gift per donor is under $13,000. It doesn’t matter if he solicited donations, as long as the donor did not receive any goods or services in return. However, since GZ is not a recognized charity, the donors can’t deduct their contribution on their tax returns and are liable for the taxes on their “gifts”.
        Seems GZ has found himself a way to avoid income tax, while living off the fools who are supporting him. He’s all about taking advantage of loopholes in the law.

        • Xena says:

          Zena, although I wish GZ had a federal tax liability on the $$ donated to him, I checked into that issue back when his PayPal account was disclosed. I’m doubting his donors exceeded the maximum annual “gift” amount, so there is no federal tax liability.

          There are donors and then there is GZ. Since GZ asked for the money, it’s not considered “gifts” and thus, not exempt from federal taxes. It’s the accumulated amount that the IRS considers rather than individual donations.

          As far as the donors, they will have to exceed a certain amount in order to take a tax deduction. Which means, whatever they donated to GZ is still taxed as their income unless it exceeds the exempted amount.

    • Jun says:

      I dont think a fundraiser that reads

      “Help the stalker and killer of a kid get money”

      really rings charity bells LOL

      Is the money used for his defense? No he wants to keep it for himself and have the state pay for his defense, as shown by his actions at the first bond hearing and his continuing actions with Omara

      Does he even need money for defense? No, the state would pay for it, but they cant because of the fundraiser he made

      There’s 300 million people and billions around the world and this being international news, he did not make very much in donations

      • Xena says:

        There’s 300 million people and billions around the world and this being international news, he did not make very much in donations

        True, but GZ doesn’t smell the coffee. We know that GZ is obsessive compulsive, a liar and harasser, so he thinks by repeating the same things over and over and over, that he will get his way.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Do you think that even his former donors now want to keep their distance from him or use a long-handled spoon in dealing with him?

    • gblock says:

      Probably his friends are sick of him and don’t want him hanging around their house all the time. Plus, they may be afraid of being associated too closely with this case.

  44. grahase says:

    Trayvon Martins killer in this months GQ magazine. He made #6 on the list of this years least influential people in the US. My God – makes it into GQ (widely-read magazine), makes a top ten list, and ISNT EVEN # 10!!!! People…cmon now.

  45. Patricia says:

    Professor Leatherman –

    George Zimmerman is out of work. He needs the money. Selling autographs won’t do it. He should do what a lot of down & outers do when they need to eat: he should sell his blood.

    He’s big & healthy, as we have seen. He can do this.

    I hereby offer George Zimmerman $250 per pint of blood for 16 pints. That’s vastly more than any other buy-your-blood storefront is paying. I don’t care what his blood-type is. But it has to be fresh, from a single draw.

    As a comfort to him – and assurance to me – I will hold his hand during the process. Then I will write the check for $4,000.

    Offered by the old Patricia; this offer is good for 30 days.

    • Rachael says:

      I’m not sure you can legally do that. It might be akin to selling body parts.

    • That would be a draining experience.

    • Xena says:

      Uh, I think the blood has to be clean, as in drug and disease free. (snicker)

      • Patricia says:

        @ Xena.

        My pet piranhas don’t care.

      • Tzar says:

        Hey Xena was it you who posted about the sovereign movement and its link to racist groups on another blog? If it was then read this article about Dunn and tell me if you notice anything

        • Xena says:

          That federal reserve and income tax argument — yep, sovereign citizen. Florida has been a center of recruitment to their theories and ideas since the housing market crash.

          In 2008 after the election of Barack Obama, many of those holding to the ideas of sovereign citizenship have gone maverick. They have come out boldly in taking actions against “non-sovereign citizens.”

          As JJ MacNab wrote for Forbes, the short answer for the definition of sovereign citizen is: a sovereign citizen is someone who believes that he or she is above all laws. The long answer is complex.

          The foundation comes from a belief that there are two classes of citizens in America: the “original citizens of the states” (or “States citizens”) and “U.S. citizens.” Sovereign citizens believe that U.S. citizens are Fourteenth Amendment citizens or rather, freed slaves. State citizens, they believe, are the only citizens with unalienable constitutional rights.

          There is the attitude, therefore, that 14th amendment citizens are only citizens by agreement in exchange for freedom, and that freedom can only be exercised if a State’s citizen allows it.

      • Tzar says:

        and that freedom can only be exercised if a State’s citizen allows it.

        yeah…that’s not tyrannical and megalomaniacal at all…no sir

        • Xena says:

          “While politically motivated terrorists might avoid killing very large numbers of people because the political costs would exceed the benefits, some terrorists want to annihilate their enemies or demolish the societal order. National Alliance leader William Pierce has declared that his aim is to initiate a worldwide race war and establish an Aryan state.”

          There’s a man who came to Illinois in the late 1980’s when farmers had debt problems. He held “teaching” seminars to show them about placing property in Trusts. If I can remember his name, I can find the numerous cases filed against him in about 5 states. Many of the farmers ended up in jail for contempt because they refused to obey orders of the court.

          The local churches warned the farmers that the man was from a White Supremacist group — an extension of Posse Comitatus which today is more commonly referred to as sovereign citizenship.

          IOWs, the titles are synonymous with each other.

      • Malisha says:

        So two classes of citizenship? Non-sovereign citizens can only exercise their rights under the 14th amendment if the state’s sovereign citizens allow it? Hmmmm. What does that remind you of (It reminds me of Justice Taney). But wait, wait: The U.S. District Courts are supposed to protect the constitutionally protected rights of all U.S. citizens, so it is the federal judges’ refusal to hear the constitutional cases that comes down to the reason we cannot correct these people’s wrongful two-tiered citizenship idea.

        And about that. The US District Courts have already said that they (a) will not hear “family law” but will leave that to the states, although they will (b) hear about gay marriage, which somehow made it out of the “family law” arena and became constitutional; and best of all, (c) consider corporations to be persons.

        Actually, citizens should get the Hell out of Florida.

        • Xena says:

          So two classes of citizenship? Non-sovereign citizens can only exercise their rights under the 14th amendment if the state’s sovereign citizens allow it?

          Malisha, in spite of the government knowing about these hate groups, they allow them to exercise free speech and grow in numbers. What I’m seeing (and hearing from others who work at the courthouse) is that individuals are making concerted aims to exercise their “Sovereign Rights” on a one-on-one basis.

          This means that the SC landlord, supervisor, car mechanic, cable guy, etc., can use their positions to violate law against 14th amendment citizens.

          My impression is that Taaffe adopted some SC theories into his already superiority character, and GZ, to be accepted, also adopted them without any knowledge of the roots. It’s like a cult that appeals to an already existing nature and then justifies it under guise of religion or being constitutional.

    • sdunn5 says:

      @Patricia I am giving you a standing ovation, and as soon as my friend comes by we will do the wave for you. I am not worthy you rule!!!!

    • grahase says:

      Does he have blood. I thought he might have spilled it all after his life-threatening injuries. Sorry Patricia — nothin left but ice running through those clogged veins and arteries.

    • Patricia says:

      Hi Patricia, I’m the new Patricia used to live in sanford fl for about 18 yrs on a boat called the paddywagon now live in the keys. Professor how can I change my post name by email?

      • Patricia says:

        @ Patricia –

        Hi new Patricia – again, welcome aboard! Love the name of your boat!!! I built a little sabot a few years back that I lashed onto the top of my station wagon and drove down to Mexico on hunting trips. Had its name lettered on the stern: “Pollo del Mar.” Quit taking it down there when I came under suspicion by the authorities who looked at me as a possible drug runner. “Moi?” as Miss Piggy would say …

        The Mexicans loved the name of my “sheep” as they called her. Evidently never heard of canned tuna.

        If The Professor can clarify our names (old: “Patricia I” and new “Patricia II,” perhaps? Remember, Elizabeth II is the reigning one with all the power …. ) maybe that will work out. Thanks for asking about this.

        How about it, Professor Fred?

      • Patricia says:

        I’m up for that! Funny we should not only have the same first name but boating interest as well. Retired with a kayak now.
        Justice for trayvon is my main interest in this blog. Has given me so much insight on how the justice system railroads children’s rights from criminals. Thank you all! Professor,how about Patricia new

      • The little “quilt pattern avatar” differentiates the two of you.
        “New” Patricia is BROWN colored quilt.
        “Old” Patricia is PURPLE colored quilt.

        • PiranhaMom says:

          @ Grey Winter –

          I’m now “Purple Patricia”?
          Vastly more flamboyant than the real persona …

          I should lose the fish?
          They were hoping for their 15 minutes of fame!

    • Jun says:

      Cheorge’s blood is cursed, no one would want it

      having it donated to anyone’s veins would result in the donor becoming racist and crazy and a liar

      • PiranhaMom says:

        @Jun, from the old Patricia –

        Not to worry about contamination, Jun.

        If I get it, it’s all spoken for.

        The piranhas love a good cocktail party.

      • Malisha says:

        It won’t work like that, but it would be creepy to be a ten-year-old studying history in the year 2051 and learn that your FATHER got a transfusion of Zimmerblood before you were born; it would kind of feel like “The Boys from Brazil.” dahn da dahn dahn…

    • Patricia…..16 pints all at once…..hmmmmmmmm…that would definately “deflate” Georgie a tad bit…………. 😉

  46. ladystclaire says:

    Just how much more sickening can this POS and his attorney get? for those who support him in his quest to get away with the cold blooded murder of a child, which he committed. may they all one day experience what the family of Trayvon Martin is living everyday since he decided to play GOD and take the life of their loved one. I for one don’t understand why some in this country can see fit to support this POS but, only GOD knows what makes some people behave in such a manner. as I said in another comment here, the defense didn’t find any dirt on Trayvon in his school records and now they are wanting access to the pin number of his cell phone. what are they going to ask for next, his birth record or maybe his immunization records. as we all know, there is another case just like this in of all places, Florida. these SYG laws need to be done away with once and for all. they are only giving some people the o.k. to just out right commit murder, and then yell they were afraid for their lives, when they are the ones with a deadly weapon.

    • Malisha says:

      Lady SC, you’re right. There already WAS a case where a guy got mad at his neighbors, grabbed his gun, went over there, and shouted at them, “I’m going to have to stand my ground!” to make them turn down their music. “I’ll stand my ground” is equivalent to a death threat when you’re armed in Florida.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Malisha, all I can say is, we are all at the mercy of some of the most ungodly laws that one could ever imagine being passed in some of the states in this country. what is this country coming to, when a person can do what you stated in your reply to my comment. am I no longer to do what I want to do in my own home? if my music is too loud, then my neighbors should just ask me to turn it down a notch and not come to my home making threats. these laws are just allowing murders to be committed with no one being held accountable and, there has got to be a stop put to these SYG murders.

      • grahase says:

        Exactly. Why does Stand Your Ground equate to murder. What is wrong with shooting the knee cap or some other non-deadly spot. Only one reason to shoot and kill — no witness to the truth of the event.

      • What’s also frightening is, if you have a “neighbor from hell” and let’s say you’re outside raking your yard. Your “neighbor from hell” comes out, and seeing that no one else is outside, decides to kill you….and claim “Stand Your Ground”……because, he claims, you threatened to kill him with your rake.
        Although my “neighbor from hell” has since moved, I wouldn’t go outside to do yard work if I knew he was outside. And I would go inside if he came out because I knew that he had a gun.
        My kitties need their mama……lol

  47. bettykath says:

    Good article but a correction

    Seventh, he did not tell the dispatcher where his vehicle was parked or describe it so that the officer en route would know what vehicle to look for and where to find it.

    I believe he did. He told them how to get to it – go in the front gate, past the clubhouse, take a right and you’ll see it. In front of a cutout. and he identified the make of truck.

    • Malisha says:

      Right, but then rather than agreeing to go back to his truck where they could meet him, he said, “have them call me when they get here,” obviously planning to run down “the suspect” and have him trussed up and ready for arrest (or dead) by the time they arrived.

      • Patricia says:

        Malisha ,after reading this post and llmpapa’s first responce I went back and read SPD Dispatchers written details of the event and trayvon’s killer the only mention of his truck was” that’s my truck” also he never completed his address he said ” It’s a home it’s 1950, oh crap I don’t want to give it all out, I don’t know where this kid is”. Confused the dispatcher several times as to where he was and his truck. I looked at the google map and there is only one street that runs from the front and back entrance and that is Twin Trees ln. ( Papa do your thing your videos inspire me.). Also, the written report killer George refer to trayvon as a suspect 18 times. #19 (above singletons signature). Suspects statement,that being killer himself. Plus ,his opening statement is a false conclusion of that so called home invasion. Shelly will probably lick all his envelopes.

    • grahase says:

      He didn’t tell the despatcher the make or colour of the truck.

    • leander22 says:

      Betty, it’s an interesting passage, he get’s very impatient with Sean at that point, that he has to repeat it. Noooo, you come in through the front gate and then make a llleft While this guy will probably soon get out of his sight. But I don’t think he says anything about the make of his truck. Does he? <

      • grahase says:

        This is pure evidence that, as time goes by, the facts are blurred, forgotten, or distorted. This is exactly why someone like the killer of Trayvon Martin waives his right to a speedy trial. Now, as time goes on, imagine how someone who has not been following the case, will make a decision only by the small seeds planted by the defence of the likes of this festering boil on the rear end of humanity.

      • aussie says:

        I believe he did say the make and colour. It sounded quietly spoken and Sean was talking at the same time. It is the bit some people heard as being about keys in the ignition.

  48. fauxmccoy says:

    is there a vomitorium near by?

    • ed nelson says:

      Here is a comment to the current thesis:

      [“I believe it is important to know that these people, whom we call sociopaths, are not confined to any economic class, race, intellect, gender or religion. In fact, I believe they are more likely to be found among the predatory rich who regard the rest of us as a resource to be exploited”]

      The word (sociopath) was brought to my attention by a fellow worker, who explained how another fellow worker was… (and he was right too).

      So I have been aware of that term for at least 25 years. Recently a video which I saw this week, explained things about these folks who lack any empathy and all that, put out by a psychiatrist, but he used the word psychopath, in fact he over used the word, almost in… some kind of mantra, to start every paragraph.

      As I understand there may be only subtle differences in the terms.

      A book that I think is instructive of this is:

      and any book by Peter Maas is worth while, IE: “In a Child’s Name” “Serpico”
      or several other good ones.

      • Ed, I heard about this book (an still want to get it). Oh, I’ve known a few……everyone from the neighbor from hell next door…….The abusive control freak spouse….. The mean and nasty uncle (my mom’s oldest brother) who not only scammed his siblings but was a police officer who stole toys that were to be given to poor children at Christmas (that were donated by local businesses). He was too cheap to spend any of his own money on anyone so he stole the donated toys to give to his kids and family and then this “lawman” would brag about it.
        The world is filled with sociopaths/psychopaths.

    • sdunn5 says:

      I sure as hell hope so fauxmccoy!! I can taste it in my mouth very nasty stuff!!!

      • ed nelson says:

        [Comment removed because it is sexist, obscene, insulting and intolerable]

        [Do not ever do this again to anyone on this site or I will ban you. You also need to apologize to fauxmccoy and sdunn5]

        [Do not post comments here when you have been drinking]

      • sdunn5 says:

        [I have removed the offensive comment and warned him that I will ban him if he ever says something like that again to anyone]

        [I also insisted he apologize to you]

      • fauxmccoy says:

        professor – i ask you to take a look at the above post by ed nelson in which he states some very foul things about fellow posters and goes so far as to call me [deleted]. i cannot understand why this is allowed to stand in all of its ugliness.

        [Comment received. I deleted his comment and told him that I would ban him if he ever does something like that again to anyone. I also told him that he owes you and sdunn5 an apology. Thanks for bringing it to my attention]

        [Ed has an alcohol problem and I warned him to stay away when he has been drinking]

    • ed nelson says:

      sorry if I said something bad to you Fauxmccoy, I didn’t mean to be rotten, or insulting.

      So what did you mean by your comment about: Vomitarium?
      Because I took that as as a kind of insult… now I am being purged from this site, which I support… oh, how little

      Crane Sta come to teh rescue!….

  49. ed nelson says:

    Two days ago.

    @ Zimmerman: The Difference Between a Hate Crime and a Civil Rights Violation

    @ Frederick L’s comment:

    [“Trayvon Martin, of course, bears no resemblance whatsoever to that ghost.

    Basically, GZ is a nut case and I am more interested in his story and why he is the way he is than I am in what he did or did not do.”]

    Fred, I was thinking, there is a counter to (what’s of interest in the story:) Eg: it might be more interesting/important… to deal with the perp, and find a way to deal more effectively with that huge problem, than the academic reasons for the condition of “sociapathy/psychopathy, cause, hey! only Dog really knows in the end!!!
    When I say: “deal with perps” I would say, that if half of the sentient beings ensconced in the biologic mold called life, are likely zombies/drone like androids sans empathy or onboard…”souls”, then you could see the magnitude of the problem at hand!!!

    Sorry to post OT!

  50. Jun says:

    Okay so we are ahead by about 200

    (I am calculating at least 100 of the signatures are phonies on the RZ Jr DAVID collab)

    • grahase says:

      There may be phony signatures on Lonnie’s petition as well.

      • Malisha says:

        I am confident that if either petition reaches the White House, the IT folks there will check the IP addresses with one of their handy dandy programs and find out how many duplications there are. The Outhouse nuts think they can outsmart everyone by blaring and echoing each other and going, “Yeah, what sock puppet said.” Taint so. Furthermore, some of the duplicators on the Outhouse petition are getting a little bit shy. After putting in “sock signers” two or three times, they began to worry about what might happen to them if this actually DID reach the WH…
        Kind of an uh oh, especially if they work for some state, local or federal government or know people who are vulnerable.

        • BlushedBrown says:

          Copied from Terms of
          Participation of White House Petition:

          The White House may disable user accounts, remove associated signatures and remove petitions created or signed by user accounts that it has reasonable belief do not satisfy the above rules. The White House may also block access from IP addresses that it has reasonable belief are using automated systems or bulk processes to create multiple user accounts or petition signatures.

          This is what the Fogen supporters fear.

      • gbrbsb says:

        There are, some even the same as on the outhouse pet!

      • Jun says:

        If there was an IP check I can see that, maybe a couple, but the Cheorgey one would be rampant phonies

  51. jm says:

    Chorge and his whole family depress me.

    I pray justice is served and there is no “technicality” that MOM finds, corruption in the system or a lack of ability of the prosecution to prove the case that frees Chorge back into society. If so, this will encourage others who are racist and/or mentally unbalanced to do the same thing as Chorge did and make money after committing a crime.

    I am depressed not just because of Chorge’s lack of remorse, regret and blaming God’s plan, not just because his family will publicly support an obvious liar who killed an innocent kid, but there are people who are willing to support him and send him money for killing a black teen.

    • Jun says:

      There’s always the New Black Panther Party LMAO

      • grahase says:

        What do you mean, Jun.

      • Jun says:


        I always hear Cheorge’s minions spout off on rants that they dont feel sorry because of alleged death threats from black panthers and black racists LOL

        So New Black Panther Party allegedly want his ass on a platter

        so it looks like members of New Black Panther Party may be “Standing Their Ground” against Zimmerman

      • Malisha says:

        Actually, and honestly, if Cheorge gets off, any rational Black person would have plenty of reason to fear him. Think of it: a guy targets an unknown Black kid and kills him and gets off? Why not do it again? If I ever even SAW such a person look in my direction I’d fear for my life. Wouldn’t you?

        • jm says:

          Malisha says: “Actually, and honestly, if Cheorge gets off, any rational Black person would have plenty of reason to fear him.”

          I am a rational white person and I fear Chorge simply because I think he is a delusional mentally unbalanced person. If he walks, I will never go to Florida again and I used to visit at least once a year.

          Between Chorge, Casey Anthony and the new crazy shooter Dunn, there are at least 3 nut cases in the state.

          I think if Chorge walks, this will only encourage more unbalanced and racist people to kill, and I don’t mean just white racists.

      • Jun says:

        I dont want to visit Florida

        and if I do, I’d go with a gun and a bullet proof vest

        and be on the lookout for crazy people who think everyone is a thug or gangbanger and looking to shoot and kill and use SYG

        I think anyone would have reasonable fear of Cheorge

        let’s see

        He’s molested and attempted rape on his own cousin – she’s in danger of Cheorge

        He’s attacked a woman at his security job as a bouncer for no reason – she’s in danger and his former coworkers are in danger for firing him because you know Cheorge may “stand his ground because of the imaginary head bashing they give him”

        He’s stalked and terrorized other people in that complex

        I dont wish death upon anyone but realistically speaking, if someone did shoot Cheorge, they would have a good SYG case and they also can use all of Cheorge’s bad history against him in court and get off

    • Rachael says:

      I know, jm and I totally understand. I don’t think I will ever get this bad taste out of my mouth.

  52. lito says:

    sorry professor, i forgot to say it was a great one in my post!

  53. Two sides to a story says:

    Hmm, on that note, Professor, is there a point at which the state can step in and say that solicitations and offers are inappropriate, or would GZ have to be convicted first before gov’t can do anything?

    • Rachael says:

      TSTAS, the solicitations and offers are disgusting, inappropriate, and so unconscionable to a reasonable person, it will certainly not help hewhosenameshallnotbementioned, but they are probably not illegal.

      I really do not see how it will help hewhosenameshallnotbementioned in the long run and will probably hurt him more than anything.

      O’Mara’s sob story at his site is certainly not convincing.

      • Rachael says:

        How come my post came out written like that? Weird.

      • bettykath says:

        The test is fully justified, both left and right sides. Your next word is too long to fit on the previous line so the words are spread out.

      • bettykath says:

        that’s text not test

      • Malisha says:

        Rachel, it’s because the long “name” you gave Fogen, which could be abbreviated HWNSNBM, or “Hawn” for short, will not allow the right-justify to break it up and make the lines come out evenly, so it makes the line before it spread out to fill the whole horizontal space. I don’t like right-justify but I don’t know how to turn it off.

      • Rachael says:

        I really think that by doing this, GZ is sabotaging his ability to get an impartial trial. Is he doing this intentionally? I can’t believe that anyone would want to be going back and forth, to and from court on appeal after appeal, so I really have to wonder WTF is going on here?

      • bettykath says:

        Malisha, minor point. Left justify leaves a ragged right. Right justify leaves a ragged left. Full justify justifies both left and right with no ragged edge.

      • From the gzlegalcase: “He only did what he had to do to protect himself from an unknown assailant…..”…and kiddos, he ain’t talking about Trayvon protecting HIMSELF from the unknown assailant, GZ.
        Just wondering….how can they call this GZ’s “Legal Defense Fund” when GZ has used the money on himself (with the exception, I believe, of his bail bond) to pay off his credit cards, for living expenses, toilet paper, etc? He’s still asking for money for his “Defense Fund”. Wouldn’t that be considered fraud?

        • Xena says:

          “He only did what he had to do to protect himself from an unknown assailant…..”…

          If not but for the fact that GZ got out of his vehicle and followed Trayvon, the two would not have come into physical contact.

          As we have seen time and again in this country, and recently in Florida, certain people think nothing of correcting Black youth. Had Trayvon opened a can of whip-ass on GZ, the residents who opened their patio doors would have ran to help GZ. No — it was GZ with a gun why they went back inside, closing their patio door behind them, and called 911.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          It certainly runs afowl of “truth in advertising law”, he states that he will not use the money to pay for his defense, but still names it a “defense fund”. MOM should have something to say about that! Because as it stands, he’s collecting the money for MOM who is putting on the defense and paying for it.

      • Tzar says:

        how can they call this GZ’s “Legal Defense Fund” when GZ has used the money on himself

        excellent question GWS?

    • I do not believe there is any way for the State to stop him from profiting from his notoriety in this case unless he commits or attempts to commit a new crime while doing so.

      Nevertheless, if I were the prosecutor, I would explore the possibility of persuading a judge to impose a constructive trust on the funds received from various efforts to profit from the notoriety he has obtained as the result of killing Trayvon Martin.

      I think an argument can be made that, if funds obtained after conviction from efforts to profit from the crime committed can be seized, then funds obtained prior to conviction for the same reason can be seized and held in trust until after the case is resolved.

      He would get to keep them, if he wins, and he loses them if he loses.

      Not sure, but I don’t believe this issue has been decided.

      Of course, I don’t recall any defendant who went to these extremes demonizing the victim and playing the race card while pushing multiple contradictory and conflicting statements in an effort to win his case in the court of public opinion before it goes to trial.

      This “strategy” suggests flailing back-against-the-wall desperation rather than a dignified, intelligent and practical analysis weighing and comparing all of the possible strategies and their likely outcomes.

      Blaming everyone else when you killed an unarmed child, including the child, while constantly whining and playing the victim card by wearing bullet proof vests and hiding out while protected by a security detail 24/7, is one of the most absurd, unconscionable and ridiculous strategies that I have ever seen or could possibly imagine. It offends and insults everyone’s intelligence and common sense while demonstrating in a way that words alone cannot convey how utterly selfish and sociopathic that incredible family is.

      I’ve been warning O’Mara to get control of this freak show and I think he’s attempting to do that, but the only result that I see is that the defendant is getting fatter.

      A. Lot. Fatter.

      • jm says:

        Professor says: “I’ve been warning O’Mara to get control of this freak show and I think he’s attempting to do that, but the only result that I see is that the defendant is getting fatter.”

        Don’t you think O’Mara resents the fact that he sees his client getting fatter more than likely against O’Mara’s advice to look like he couldn’t beat off the skinny teen.

        I despise the “trickery” previously where Chorge was dressed in an over-sized suit in his previous court appearances and love that he now looks like a bloated whale dazed on drugs who could roll over on Trayvon and kill him by his obscene weight advantage alone. This is who Chorge is and I hope he maintains his present weight and look with rolling eyes and inability to fold a piece of paper.

        To me Chorge’s weight gain suggests his lack of self-control which was evident in his previous actions, including but not limited to killing Trayvon Martin.

      • gbrbsb says:

        Great idea the constructive trust professor. BDLR should go for it right now, as it has an added advantage; to deter donors who would need to factor in the possibility that were an accused found guilty donations could end up in the pockets of victims, state, etc, i.e. exactly the opposite of whom they intended. Nice bit of poetic justice there!

        With the immediacy of today´s world could legislation around this even become necessary? Otherwise laws meant to prevent the guilty from profiting from their crimes with books, interviews, documentaries, etc. will be easily circumvented, flouted and even flaunted, by doing it all before trial.

        As an aside, I have to say yours is a difficult system to fathom from a UK perspective where pre trial reporting is completely restricted by contempt laws with the public kept in the dark until trial at which point through court reporters evidence starts to emerge, but with much of the intricacies of the evidence and investigation only being disclosed after the verdict.

      • Two sides to a story says:

        You Brits are just far more sensible about many things. Weird stuff happens culturally in tropical and semi-tropical places like Florida, it seems. Mix up some overreactive conservatism with a little racism, add a little heat and sunshine, and BOOM!

      • leander22 says:

        I’ve been warning O’Mara to get control of this freak show and I think he’s attempting to do that, but the only result that I see is that the defendant is getting fatter.

        you may be correct with that. I haven’t considered it from that perspective.

        Admittedly for some time now I have the impression that O’Mara’s strategy is really decided by the larger Team Zimmerman. O’Mara stated that decisions are arrived at collectively at one point. I do not remember his words verbatim.

        Beyond the peculiarly repetitive assurance that the names will be kept private, what struck me most was the way it seemed to start and end with the “evil media” campaign against Cheorge in the end reduced to “misinformation”.

        Interestingly while all the “suspects” are mentioned: Ben Crump, Natalie Jackson, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Julison Communications, the family Tracy Martin., Sybrina and Jahvaris Fulton are mysteriously absent. Could it have happened without them?

        But then, already in his bond hearing and in his Hannity interview GZ had them figuratively at at arms length,. In the Hannity interview the were added as if an afterthought to his sorries to parents, wife, brothers, sisters, (future children? ;)) in his sorries to America at large. At the first bond hearing the sorry to them was really meant to convey. He thought that Trayvon was about his age. After all wouldn’t that make more sense considering his tale? So the superficial sorry to them was really misused for his own advantage. Strictly he can’t say, he feels sorry for them and at the same time hold up his story.

        I can’t help, it essentially feels to me, this is really some kind of error analysis driven by GZ mainly. The core question is why did the money flow stop since the funds are in O’Mara’s hands? Could it be that people in fact would love to support their hero as they immediately did? But do not really want to “support a lawyer”? Was it a mistake to not sent a thank you note to anyone, and last but not least are some worried that their names will not remain anonymous?

        My question question concerns this:

        management of the fund will be transferred to a new fund manager of Mr. Zimmerman’s choosing.

        What could judge Lester’s decisions in this context still mean? It feels the idea could be to transfer the fund into the hands of family members. Isn’t Robert jun a lawyer too and could a retired magistrate judge like Robert sen handle it?

  54. Two sides to a story says:

    Couldn’t O’Mara think of a better way to solicit donations? Next we’ll have win 15 minutes on Skype with GZ . . . I’m just sayin’.

    • Jun says:

      Mark Omara’s life would have been easier just telling the truth at the first bond hearing about his knowledge of the money (if the phone convos have truth as to Omara’s knowledge) and then he would not have these issues

      Because the state would have got the 1 million dollar bond or remand

      and the court could have disabled Cheorge’s accounts and Shellie’s

      and then Omara could have asked the state to pay him

      because at least the state will pay him

      Cheorge had the money and wouldnt give his former lawyers a dime nor Omara, and Omara is his key to him not having to worry about dropping his soap

      • looneydoone says:

        I have absolutely no sympathy for O’Mara’s *plight*
        He jumped in, pro bono seeking to make a name for himself…
        and come out covered with zimmerman stench.
        Oh well…….

      • Jun says:

        I know

        Just saying, he could have done things differently, ie with standards and morals, and Omara could have came out ahead with some money

        at this point the supporters dont want to give Omara money, the state cant give Omara money because of the defense fund and the scheming and manipulation that took place, so Omara is up shit creek

        • Xena says:

          at this point the supporters dont want to give Omara money, the state cant give Omara money because of the defense fund and the scheming and manipulation that took place, so Omara is up shit creek

          You know, that is something O’Mara should have thought about before he agreed to represent GZ. Sonner and Uhlrig went on television and said that GZ wanted them to launch a begging site but he did it on his own without their approval. That should have raised questions for O’Mara.

          How could he honestly represent GZ before the court on the bond without having documents of the transactions for himself? He took GZ at his word, and that was a big mistake.

          I don’t know about anyone else but if I were a lawyer and my client started off our first important court hearing by lying to me, I would have motioned to withdraw.

          Now, along with being his legal counselor, O’Mara also has to babysit GZ, ShelLIE, and put up with tin foil hat conspiracy theories..

          • jm says:

            Xena says: …… How could he honestly represent GZ before the court on the bond without having documents of the transactions for himself? He took GZ at his word, and that was a big mistake.
            I don’t know about anyone else but if I were a lawyer and my client started off our first important court hearing by lying to me, I would have motioned to withdraw…..

            I have always had the impression MOM was either shady or stupid when it came to the money GZ said MOM was told about on the prison tapes. Lose-lose situation for GZ and MOM. They deserve each other.

          • Xena says:

            IIRC, GZ told ShelLIE that MOM knew there was about $37,000, and he said that since they weren’t working, it really wasn’t that important. Well, $37,000 to support 2 unemployed adults isn’t much. The way that GZ, his sister and ShelLIE were shuffling money around, they could have led MOM to only GZ’s account rather than the PayPal records or Credit Union’s statements.

            IMO, MOM trusted what GZ told him and didn’t know the truth. Also IMO, had MOM known the truth, and with an argument that GZ was unemployed and homeless, Judge Lester may have set the bond at $150,000 anyway.

            By GZ sitting like a potted palm as ShelLIE misrepresented her knowledge of the money, Judge Lester had to consider why — the motivation to perjure and sure enough, he stated that GZ could have fled with $135,000 of other people’s money.

  55. lito says:

    this man is scum…..used this boy as a pawn to fulfill his dirty mission to become a cop….his lies would never work up here in new york….florida needs to fine tune this law so idiots like this can go straight to jail and REAL law abiding citizens can protect themselves from REAL criminals….its amazing how the chief and wolfinger let this idiot slide when ordinary citizens see the same evidence that they seen and agree that he should have been charged in feb

  56. Rachael says:

    Thank you professor for putting into words everything I feel.

  57. racerrodig says:

    I previously said we can refer to him as DAD as in “Dumb Ass Defendant” and since there is a MOM as in Moron O’ Mara we have a family.

    However after this move I would like to amend that to DADD as in
    Dumb Ass Deranged Defendant.

  58. It’s sicking, not only for him to suggest selling his signature, we already know he’s a self-absorbed POS, but it’s too gross for me to believe anyone would want it at all! And i can’t believe many will. We know the first begsite made 200k, but it was mostly given in large chunks by a small group of donors/idiots, like some hate group or something. It wasn’t ‘from the masses’ as he’d like us to believe. The fact that he’s trying this new tactic shows me he’s flat broke busted because he’s NOT getting any money!

    He’s not getting shit!

    • lito says:

      i feel unfortunately there will be opportunists who dont even like zimmerman or believe him but will send money anyway hoping that it will be worth money one day

    • Malisha says:

      The only people who want his thank-you signature are people who would like to be able to kill young black kids THEY don’t like and get away with it. But let them put their money where their offensive mouths are.

      • truthforlisa says:

        Anyone who would buy his siggy is no better than the scumbag himself. What’s he trying to do, screw over the system for some more money again?

  59. LLMPapa says:

    “You will know them by what they say and do.”

    Very good article, Professor.

      • Mary Davis says:

        Professor, your article just made me cry. You are so right. Words fail.

      • Wow……..very powerful. And when you don’t mention the name of the murderer, he becomes less human and more like the evil boogyman that he really is. There will be times when it might be necessary to identify him by at least his initials…but refering to him as Trayvon’s murderer describes him best.

      • Tzar says:

        very powerful. And when you don’t mention the name of the murderer, he becomes less human and more like the evil boogyman that he really is.

        I sensed the same thing too as I read the article.
        I wonder the limits and scope of this method
        Really interesting.

    • BlushedBrown says:

      Excellent article, thanks Prof.

    • groans says:

      Very moving, and consicely well supported, Professor.

      It’s astonishing that the defense team tries to deflect ethical analysis of their “trolling for dollars” scheme by projecting a “profiteering” motive onto those pursuing the rights of the VICTIMS! The sociopathy in this situation appears to be a communicable disease – something warranting a new focus for scientific research in the mental health arena.

      Words certainly do fail.
      Again, and again, in this saga.

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