Zimmerman: The Initial Decision Not to Charge Zimmerman Should Be The Subject Of A Separate Investigation

Hello, everyone.

Happy belated Thanksgiving to all of you. You nave not seen my fonts for a few days because we had family from out of town join us for Thanksgiving.

Question posed by Roderick2012.

Professor, could you write a post as to how you would question Serino if you were the State and O’Mara?

Serino seems like a big liability for the State and a gift for the defense given his contradictory statements and bad acts of leading witnesses and having leaked footage of Zimmerman to the media.

If you were BDLR how would you avoid the minefields and use him to get the evidence of Zimmerman’s re-enactment and Zimmerman’s police interviews into evidence?

I have been following the excellent comments and discussion about Serino, the deficient SPD investigation that he conducted and the apparent race and influence-driven decision by State’s Attorney Norm Wolfinger, SPD Chief Bill Lee and others not to charge Zimmerman with a crime. Regardless of the outcome in the Zimmerman case, that failed process must be thoroughly and transparently reviewed to identify what went wrong, why it went wrong, and recommend what should be done to make sure it never happens again.

No, I am not talking about appointing yet another committee to study a problem, minimize it, and assign blame to the proverbial rotten apple who is identified as the exception to an otherwise thoroughly competent and professional police department. I am disgusted by the use of strategies to identify and blame yet another fall guy and issue a false explanation of what happened that contains enough truth to plausibly deny the existence of widespread corruption and incompetence at the management and policy making level of an organization. Concealing the truth to protect and continue conducting business as usual will not solve any problems or restore citizen confidence in the ability of the police department to do its job. Instead, concealing the truth will promote cynicism and destroy faith in the ability of the police department to carry out its duty to enforce the laws without regard to race and privilege for the benefit of all of the people, rather than some of them. Citizen faith and confidence in the Sanford Police Department to ignore race and economic class while enforcing the laws is breaking down. Papering over the institutional and systemic problems that have been revealed in the discovery released to the public in the Zimmerman case, in effect, let the cat get out of the bag. Therefore, a denial of what we know to be true will further delegitimize the department.

I think that one of the most important lessons of the Zimmerman case is the realization that racism is alive and well in this country. An extraordinary number of people express racist opinions about Trayvon Martin and his family, for example, while vehemently denying that race played any role in accepting Zimmrman’s ghetto Black-gangsta defense. they are racist. Yes, indeed. We still have a long way to go before we eliminate racism in this country.

Now, to answer Roderick’s question, I do not believe that mentioning police misconduct will benefit either side. The defense needs to resist the urge to mention it because the misconduct benefited the defense at the expense of the truth and Trayvon Martin’s reputation. Asking the jury to acquit Zimmerman, despite overwhelming evidence of guilt, because some racist cops wanted to award Zimmerman a medal for killing a Black gangsta is not a winning argument. The prosecution has no reason to raise the subject because it has the evidence to convict Zimmerman.

Therefore, the Zimmerman trial will not be the appropriate forum to investigate and expose racism in the Sanford Police Department.

296 Responses to Zimmerman: The Initial Decision Not to Charge Zimmerman Should Be The Subject Of A Separate Investigation

  1. Mary Davis says:

    Inspgadget. Or mayby you “Floridians” can’t handle the truth.

  2. Mary Davis says:

    Talking about a strawman argument, you are talking complete nonsense. Attacking someone at a gas station has absolutely nothing to do with this case. You know what this case is about. What are you “Floridians” really afraid of. Could it be the truth.

  3. Jun says:


    That is probable cause and it even says that probable cause does not mean absolute certainty hence the use of the word “probable”


    Florida Stand Your Ground law

    There are many sections in the law that one must pass to gain it

    that is the self defense law of Florida

    when you have a questionable claim like George it would be difficult

    Besides, I heard Omara is asking for traditional self defense but I have no idea what the hell that means

    • Xena says:

      Besides, I heard Omara is asking for traditional self defense but I have no idea what the hell that means

      According to MOM, he abandoned SYG for traditional self-defense on the basis that GZ was pinned and could not get away. Of course, that is inconsistent with GZ’s statements and forensics because there is no debris on GZ’s clothing providing evidence that he was pinned.

      For GZ’s jacket and shirt to raise exposing his gun also means that his body was free from the waist up. According to him, his arms and hands were also free.

      And, let’s not forget that also according to GZ, he was able to shimmy 40 ft. with Trayvon straddling him, and while he continued holding on to his tactical flashlight. Since he was able to do all of that and kill Trayvon in 2 minutes or less, he should have said that he slithered like a snake.

  4. Patricia says:

    @ Brown –

    THANK YOU! That’s one of the two Sanford PD videos where Zimmerman re-enacts how he shot Tayvon Martin and what his dominant left hand was doing at the time he shot Trayvon: grabbing the unarmed teen by the shirt and detaining him.

    And at that time, Zimmerman carefully and judiciously took the time to be certain to avoid shooing that grasping hand. He testified on video to this.

    Forensic evidence shows how careful Zimmerman was in aiming his gun to shoot Trayvon in the heart. Precisely.

    Took his time to do this, considered and fully thought-out.


    At no risk to himself. He shot this kid, his captive, execution-style.

    • Brown says:

      Your so very welcome. And totally agree with your post. Btw,
      LLMPapa has about 300 videos that are very informative, to the point, uses the evidence to date regarding this case alone. Please check out his videos if you get a chance. Better yet subscribe to his channel so you can get his latest videos.


  5. Malisha says:

    Professor says:

    “Regardless whether a jury convicts or acquits Zimmerman, Judge Lester has determined that there was probable cause to support the murder 2 charge. His finding will require a dismissal of a civil suit for malicious prosecution.”

    This is the most important piece. NOTICE that although the forced recusal of Judge Lester made it possible for O’Mara to re-file or file any motion (within 30 days) to undo what had been done by that judge, NO MOTION was filed to re-evaluate whether there was probable cause to arrest GZ for Murder-2.

    I guess this is what they would call “res adjudicata.”

    There was probable cause.

    Officers may have been upset. Officers may have felt frustrated. That’s sad. It’s OK, though; they can go into therapy. Upset and frustration sometimes result from killing kids in the rain.

  6. Malisha says:

    inspg: you say “That should give some pause to those that Just want an arrest quickly without looking at the ramifications of arresting too early before you have a solid case.”

    They have a solid case for Murder-2. They would NOT have a solid case for Murder-1 and waiting for that for years might or might not work. For instance, had Corey chosen to wait for years to see if somebody would come forward to divulge information that would give her a Murder-1 charge, she might have chosen to wait. But she might also have thought, “Justice delayed is justice denied” and of course, with all the pro and con people out there talking about what George did, it was likely that he might just decide that he and Shellie should go to Peru for job opportunities. So Corey decided to go ahead with what she had.

    Their solid case for Murder-2 can win or lose. Should it lose, George should go try to find a lawyer to represent him in a malicious prosecution suit. But considering the fact that a lawyer represented him a couple of years ago and got an $18,000 judgment for him and then got stiffed, who do you think wants the once-and-future opportunity to represent George Z in a big contingency case against people who can get the case tossed out on an initial motion to dismiss for failure to state a claim?


    I think the real story is the race between these two petitions, not because either one of them will result in anything earth-shattering, in fact, both are relatively predictable. The race is interesting because it shows something about the way this case has been working on the American public psyche, which has been battered by years of cover-ups, years of misinformation, years of denial, and years of unnecessary belligerence and dust-up him-and-me us-against-them thinking while the pockets of intense corruption in our governments have been stinking.

  7. Malisha says:

    inspg, you pointed out:

    “4 Elements to Malicious Prosecution:

    (1) that the original case was terminated in favor of the plaintiff,
    – either a 776.032 Immunity Ruling or Acquitted by a Jury.”

    OK. Let’s take this up again after (and if) the case State versus Zimmerman is terminated in favor of George Zimmerman, one way or the other. That seems like a reasonable idea. 😀

    • Jun says:

      The main points that Cheorge would have to prove is

      Malice and intent to cause injury
      criminal litigation without probable cause
      abuse of process

      He cant prove there was any infringement on any of those points LMAO

      • Regardless whether a jury convicts or acquits Zimmerman, Judge Lester has determined that there was probable cause to support the murder 2 charge. His finding will require a dismissal of a civil suit for malicious prosecution.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Thank you professor, that means that should their petition succeed in reaching the 25k votes it needs, to obtain the promised White House response, the result will be laughable. I would suggest that Obama invite a Supreme Court Judge over to the White House to issue the response. Hey, it would be a fine moment for Clarence Thomas. hey? LOL

        • Xena says:

          Res Judicata??

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Decision stands because it wasn’t challenged, therefore it was accepted.

          • Xena says:

            Decision stands because it wasn’t challenged, therefore it was accepted.

            Yes. You’d be surprised how many people do not understand that doctrine.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Well, persons required to make judgements certainly learn it very fast. People sit quietly and accept judgements, because at the moment, for various reasons they feel they can live with the judgement. They think their silence hides this fact, so they leave. Then they later discover that perhaps they could have done better, or that something they believed was so wasn’t etc., Now, suddenly they’re up in arms to overturn the judgement they silently accepted.

            Not so says the judge; “You had the right to accept with prejudice!” Only you or your lawyer realized that to do so would warn that you harbored resistance. That, in turn would mean that matters had not really settled, causing things to be looked at more closely, hairs to be split, undotted i’s and uncrossed t’s searched for etc., well kind sirs we’ll have none of it, the judgement stands as written!


          • Xena says:

            @Lonnie. There’s a pro se litigant in the jurisdiction where I live who tied the court up for 10 yrs and each case was dismissed on the doctrine of res judicata. He then harassed the federal court who entered sanctions against him along with ordering that he cannot file anything in any federal court as plaintiff.

      • Jun says:

        I dont know Florida Law, but what do they have to argue against the probable cause for murder 2? It is fairly reasonable to believe a murder was committed, George did stalk and kill a kid and have malice and intent. The prosecution has been fairly without malice and George has been granted more rights than necessary. The state could actually file for damages and obstruction for such a frivolous suit IMO but I dont know Florida Law.

  8. Malisha says:

    inspg, it’s at best a cute diversion to pick apart a charging document and carry on about whether this or that sentence of it is upheld or contradicted by this or that other event in the world and that kind of argument can lead anyone, with an agenda and by the use of casuistry, to conclusions that have nothing to do with the facts of the case. The facts of the case, however, are — in this case — stubborn things.

    1. FACT. George Zimmerman carried a loaded gun into his vehicle, drove a few blocks from his house, and spotted Trayvon Martin, regardless of his reason for doing so or the background of his having done so.

    2. FACT. George Zimmerman called the Police NEN number and reported Trayvon as suspicious, giving a few disjointed ideas related in his mind to suspiciousness. He also uttered some sentences that indicated malice on his part toward the still-nameless person he found suspicious: “These assholes, they always get away.” “Fucking punks.” “He looks like he’s up to no good.” “He looks like he’s on drugs or something.” “I don’t know what his thing is.”

    3. FACT. George Zimmerman acknowledged that Trayvon Martin had seen him, knew he was being watched or followed, and was trying to escape him. “Shit, he’s running.” “He ran.” “toward the back entrance of the neighborhood.”

    4. FACT. George Zimmerman followed Trayvon Martin. “Are you following him?” “Yeah.”

    5. FACT. George Zimmerman shot a hollowpoint bullet into Trayvon Martin’s heart and killed him.

    Now, with those five facts, you have probable cause to believe that he committed Murder-2. That does not take away the man’s rights. That does not deprive him of the rights that Florida law gives to Floridians. Because if he gets charged with Murder-2 (as he has been) he gets to defend himself. He gets a lawyer. He gets a trial. Calm down.

    He is entitled to claim that he killed in self-defense. It is exceedingly unlikely, of course, because he admitted that he frightened Trayvon Martin, thus giving Trayvon Martin adequate cause to try to defend himself from George Zimmerman. There was no law in Florida at the time that a “good guy” has the right to apprehend, investigate, confront, dominate, citizen’s-arrest, detain, interrogate or even speak to a “real suspicious guy” without the “real suspicious guy” having the right to fear and then try to defend himself from the “good guy’s” advances. How does the “real suspicious guy” know that the “good guy” is really a good guy, after all? So George is entitled to claim that he killed in self-defense, but those rights may not end up freeing him from the operation of law. The equal protection of law says that he gets to try that.

    All your perspicacious and well reasoned suspicions about the inadequacies of the charging document and about Angela Corey’s prior and present misconduct are interesting; forward them to Mr. O’Mara so they can be used in the furtherance of protecting George Zimmerman’s rights and best of luck.

  9. inspgadget365 says:

    Xena: You also must realize that even if arrested, you have due process to petition the court for immunity from prosecution where you lay out your facts and the judge applies it to the law, right?

    The problem here is that the Arrest may not happen until the Officers can show probable cause, if they can not show probable cause then they can not arrest in the first place. This is why the PC affidavit is so important in this case in particular,

    Here is an excerpt of the statement from City Manager Bonaparte:

    Why was George Zimmerman not arrested the night of the shooting?

    When the Sanford Police Department arrived at the scene of the incident, Mr. Zimmerman provided a statement claiming he acted in self defense which at the time was supported by physical evidence and testimony. By Florida Statute, law enforcement was PROHIBITED from making an arrest based on the facts and circumstances they had at the time. Additionally, when any police officer makes an arrest for any reason, the officer MUST swear and affirm that he/she is making the arrest in good faith and with probable cause. If the arrest is done maliciously and in bad faith, the officer and the City may be held liable.

    According to Florida Statute 776.032 :

    776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—

    • Xena says:

      The problem here is that the Arrest may not happen until the Officers can show probable cause, if they can not show probable cause then they can not arrest in the first place.

      You’re coming from a hypothesis that the SPD was right. Has it occurred to you that;
      1. A Capais was filed to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter, and

      2. The reason an investigation was ordered and a special prosecutor appointed was because the SPD failed to conduct a proper investigation? and,

      3. Had Wolfinger been correct in his decision not to charge Zimmerman, he should have remained on his job, cooperated with the FDLE and FBI to prove the reason for his decision. Instead, he left like 40 going north.

      • inspgadget365 says:

        To find out whether this position was abused to make and unwarranted arrest or the inverse to keep an arrest from being made earlier is why I am fully behind an investigation into all of this. I actually want “The Truth” itself to come out no matter where it leads. If GZ actually did coldly murder TM as one side claims, or TM attacked GZ and was beating him until he saw the Gun as the other side claims, or some other unthought of possibility. I want actual justice for all Floridians, not Justice for one side vs the other.

        On a side note: The is no Statute of Limitations for murder, they rushed an arrest and prosecution of Casey Anthony and missed a lot according to news reports of the last 48hrs. Now she can write a book on “How I Killed Caylee” and the prosecution can’t touch her. That should give some pause to those that Just want an arrest quickly without looking at the ramifications of arresting too early before you have a solid case.

        • Xena says:

          The is no Statute of Limitations for murder, they rushed an arrest and prosecution of Casey Anthony and missed a lot according to news reports of the last 48hrs.

          There’s a big difference between the Anthony case and Zimmerman’s. Zimmerman admitted that he killed Trayvon Martin. The issue is whether he did so in self-defense. With forensic and physical evidence, the prosecution has a good case. It’s no longer based on Zimmerman’s words alone, neither the perception of Bill Lee and Wolfinger.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Police at the scene telling witnesses what they saw, goes a long way towards explaining why the Police are having a hard time finding probable cause, wouldn’t you say? Or is that part of the normal investigative procedure you’d approve of?

  10. inspgadget365 says:


    The T is at the North End of a row of 3 bldg’s, The home is at the south end. To go from one side to the other the easiest way would be to go around the south end of the bldg. The next would be along the north end of that bldg. He would have to pass 3 separate bldg’s going the long way to end up at the north end of the T to be where the confrontation happened.


    If Martin had gotten the gun and killed Zimmerman in self defense I would have a similar opinion. Either way there is no proof of who started the confrontation. Either way all you have is the survivors word. According to 776.032 neither one should be arrested until they had probable cause that the force used was unlawful, and not self defense. If a home surveillance video or even witnesses to say they saw the start of the fight and they might have a case for probable cause. But there is nothing to show who did the first illegal act i.e. first punch, first contact, etc… What I am against is Prosecutors making their own rules when the people have spoken and put immunity in the law requiring probable cause to prevent cases like this one where a man was arrested for a self defense shooting, was unable to make bail, and lost everything before the jury acquitted him. There but for the grace of GOD, go I.

    Man acquitted in shooting is ‘happy to be free’, but now is homeless.

    If this had gone to a Grand Jury first a lot of Floridians on this side of the fence would not have a problem with the case going forward, and that is why Corey skipped the Grand Jury because she knew it would get thrown out. We want to change the law to require a Grand Jury for any Self Defense case so an honest citizen defending himself does not get ruined by an out of control Prosecutor. For me this is not about Zimmerman, this is about our rights as Floridians (of all races) to defend ourselves from the criminals of the world.

    • Xena says:


      The T is at the North End of a row of 3 bldg’s, The home is at the south end. To go from one side to the other the easiest way would be to go around the south end of the bldg. The next would be along the north end of that bldg. He would have to pass 3 separate bldg’s going the long way to end up at the north end of the T to be where the confrontation happened.

      I presume by “he” you mean Trayvon? Trayvon is not on trial. I’m talking about Zimmerman SAYING that when the dispatcher said “We don’t need you to do that” that he was standing on Retreat View Circle. Unless Trayvon was clairvoyant, he would not know that Zimmerman was going to walk back down the dog path returning from RTV since Zimmerman claims that he reached RVC before Trayvon did.

      BTW, the altercation happened about 40 ft from where Zimmerman says it happened.

      Here’s a good view of Zimmerman’s purported walk and the timing.

    • Xena says:

      Either way there is no proof of who started the confrontation.

      Pursuant to law, the aggressor is what matters and the aggressor is not always the person who threw the first punch. In the Dooley case, although the victim laid hands first on Dooley, the jury found him guilty because he left his garage to confront a man in the park who said something to him. In the same manner, GZ left his truck and followed Trayvon.

      If not but for the fact that GZ got out of his truck and followed Trayvon, he and Trayvon would not have come into physical contact.

      According to 776.032 neither one should be arrested until they had probable cause that the force used was unlawful, and not self defense.

      See above.

    • Xena says:

      If this had gone to a Grand Jury first a lot of Floridians on this side of the fence would not have a problem with the case going forward, and that is why Corey skipped the Grand Jury because she knew it would get thrown out.

      Your problem is with the Florida legislature and not Corey. Florida legislature does not require a Grand Jury unless the charge involves the death penalty.

    • Xena says:

      For me this is not about Zimmerman, this is about our rights as Floridians (of all races) to defend ourselves from the criminals of the world.

      You do realize that you cannot exert Florida law in “the world,” right?

      You also realize that private citizens cannot kill other citizens based on their personal perception of profiling, right?

      You also must realize that even if arrested, you have due process to petition the court for immunity from prosecution where you lay out your facts and the judge applies it to the law, right?

    • Jun says:

      George started the confrontation. There is proof of that. We would not be here talking about this if George had not targeted Trayvon with intent and malice, and decide to confront and kill Trayvon. Trayvon was running away from George. George continued pursuit and when he caught up, he terrorized and threatened the kid before killing him. It is fairly easy to see that. He went after the kid, not the other way around. George is not authorized, nor did he have a reasonable suspicion or probable cause to chase after or stalk anyone, nor is it inside the constitution that such action is allowed.

      1) George admitted himself on a phone call he was targeting and he spoke disparaging remarks about a kid that showcase anger and hatred

      2) George admitted in interrogation that he had no justifiable reason to stalk and go after the kid and admits to stalking the kid and following him, and even admits it on a phone call with police, during the altercation

      3) The altercation took place once George decided to go after and stalk a kid, in the dark of the night with a gun

      4) If you look at the witnesses, the timing, the geography, the forensics, George did continue his pursuit and he has been lying to law enforcement of the whole story

      5) To find who initiated the confrontation and altercation is quite simple, it goes to whoever was pursuing it. George was pursuing Trayvon, in a menacing manner, therefore, George started it.

    • Jun says:

      Witness 18 saw the start of the confrontation, and witness 8 heard the beginning of the confrontation. The other witnesses place them in the south heading north. Trayvon’s body was found 63 feet south of the T, and to the west of the back pathway, on the grass, head facing north, with his items strewn to the south of him. The altercation occured approximately 1.5 minutes after George dropped his call and that is about the right measurement of time for him to head south to cut Trayvon off and herd him north and confront him. The witnesses and verify these facts as well.

    • Jun says:

      1) You still have the right in Florida to defend yourself from criminals.

      2) You dont have the right to target and kill someone as that constitutes murder

      Do you see the difference? Is your precious SYG law still available to you? George is being processed because he was not defending himself and he committed murder. The SYG was made so people can defend themselves against people like George Zimmerman. Your statements are very biased and unobjective. You look at Zimmerman but you dont see it from Trayvon’s rights, which he does have. Prove that George’s rights have been infringed at all, and we will see. The only proof there is is of George infringing Trayvon’s rights to freely be without being trapped and forced into a confrontation he tried to avoid and was unprovoked by Trayvon.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Oh but there is evidence that the shot fired was not necessary! The evidence shows that at the time the shot was fired, GZ was holding onto TM by gripping and pulling on his clothing with one hand. While with his other hand free, he was able to draw, aim and fire his weapon without interference.

      With both of GZ’s hands accounted for, and still no trace on TM’s hand, TM could not have been attacking GZ when GZ was drawing his weapon. If GZ was drawing his weapon, while he was not under attack, and was holding onto TM while making no effort at all to put distance between them. There was no reason to shoot TM. A person who still felt the need to draw his weapon, while holding someone by their clothing, should have issued a warning. After all, he knew that TM was unarmed and therefore not a deadly threat as he himself was at the time.

      Zimmerman was a deadly threat and Trayvon was not a deadly threat! GZ could still have identified himself, even before he fired the fatal shot! GZ was in full control of a deadly weapon, which he aimed and fired without warning, into the body of an unarmed child, who he was restraining by a grip on that child’s clothing. A child who was no deadly threat at the time.

      We now know that the injuries that GZ wore, did not come from acts committed against him by Trayvon Martin. The evidence required for him to have done that is totally absent. Why Zimmerman falsely claims to have been ferociously assaulted by his victim, only serves to show that his actions are without justification even in his own mind! Otherwise, why not supply the truth and let the evidence bear it out? Because there is no evidence to bear out Zimmerman’s false claims!

      • Patricia says:


        It is not only forensic evidence (the two stretched sweatshirts worn by Trayvon with matching bullet holes, positioned away from the chest wound by Zimmerman’s grabbing them by his dominant left hand) but also two – count ’em, TWO – video re-creations that Zimmerman re-enacted – both of these Sanford Police videos – one where Zimmerman was not aware he was being filmed (the overhead shot where Zimmerman is chatting it up with the stress-test operator on the night of the murder) and the other the on-site review for detectives, February 28 – where he shows how he “had” to get his weapon out of his holster, with his right hand, raise the gun in position, and fire — and Zimmerman positions his dominant left hand in those videos in the grasping position, pulled up tight towards his own chest, as he recalls pulling Trayvon Martin by the shirts, toward himself. SHOW & TELL!!!

        Same claw-like grasping position of his dominant hand – the hand that clearly reached out and grabbed Trayvon the night of the assault. The hand that controlled Trayvon – which proves Zimmerman did NOT have to shoot, and was NOT in fear for his life, and the murder was NOT justified by self-defense – because what was Zimmerman defending himself against? A skinny, scared kid trying to run home.

        Zimmerman himself told Sanford PD what he was defending himself himself against: SHOOTING HIS OWN LEFT HAND. His dominant hand that was grabbing Trayvon Martin by his sweatshirts, preventing Trayvon from escaping, preventing Trayvon from watching the basketball game, preventing Trayvon from giving his little brother the Skittles he had asked for.



        • Brown says:

          I wonder if this video will help ….

        • jm says:

          Thank you for making it clear to inspgadget365. If it is not clear enough, I suspect there is a 1-track mind going on to justify the killing of Trayvon by GZ.

          I have always wondered why people can’t grasp how unnecessary that fatal shot was when GZ knew the police were on their way. Once GZ had control of his gun, he could have held the “suspicious” Trayvon at gunpoint for their arrival. Once he could advise the witness he had already called the police, had the gun in hand, there was absolutely no reason to shoot Trayvon in the heart. GZ maliciously shot to kill Trayvon Martin who he had profiled and followed.

          • Brown says:

            Didn’t even have to go that far. Per Serino’s report, Gz had two opportunities to identify himself.
            page 10 of 29

            Click to access zimmerman_martin_evidence_20120626.pdf

          • jm says:

            Brown says: “Didn’t even have to go that far. Per Serino’s report, Gz had two opportunities to identify himself.”

            I am shockingly surprised GZ fumbled the opportunity to lie about identifying himself. After all, the only witness was dead and couldn’t contradict him. But once push came to shove and the evil GZ had his gun in his hand and could speak to a witness about police being called, that is where the malice comes in for me. He did not have to aim to shoot Trayvon in the heart. He didn’t even have to fire the gun. I don’t get how people cannot understand this. And the justification for this killing is an alledged “broken” nose?

          • Brown says:

            I’m with you JM. I just don’t get it.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            In fact, as anyone who has handled a gun before knows, when you draw your gun on someone who is fighting/resisting, you step back away from them, because you no longer need to be within reach of their grasp or strike, because you have the ultimate defensive weapon. It can kill with just a trigger pull, something no fist or arm can do ever.

            But this is why holding onto the garments of the unarmed person, indicates that they are not resisting any longer, something martial artists have said the screams indicate as well, that the person screaming is no longer fighting and the person with the weapon does not scream because he has no reason to.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Good post, Lonnie.
        And……I speculate that George Zimmerman shot TO KILL that tragic night. He did NOT HAVE TO aim for Trayvon’s heart.

        That cry for help was a cry of forlorn desperation! It was a cry from someone looking death in its face!

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        The keychain marks the location where George should have stayed. The fact that the keychain’s light was still on is an extra gift to the prosecution. It was in use!

        Trayvon’s body was found a good 30+ feet south of that keychain. Trayvon was trying to escape toward home.

        What did George do? George pursued Trayvon. No valid self defense there.

        George should have gone in the opposite direction. Had everything gone north toward the T from the keychain, George might today have some chance at a self defense claim because north would have shown that George was attempting to retreat.

        But….no. George was on the offense. He headed SOUTH of the keychain after Trayvon as Trayvon attempted to get away toward home. He just would not let go of Trayvon……..he would not let Trayvon go home.

        The keychain with its flashlight is solid, physical evidence.

    • Mary Davis says:

      I don’t mean to come down so hard on you, that is not my style, and it solves nothing. You say there is no proof who started the conforntation. What does it mean to you, that George made disparaging remarks, got out of his vehicle, stalked, detained, and then pulled out his gun and shot a youth in the heart killing him, someone George did not know or care about. It seems pretty clear to me that George started it all. It seems to me you should be concerned about people like George who is the criminal in this case. Professor L says that Treyvon does not have any rights now that he is dead. But he sure as hell had rights before George stalked and killed him. Why are you blaming Cory for doing her job. Do you realize, if it were not for the people aroung the country calling for justice, there would never have been a choice of a grand jury decision. George would never have been charged with anything. Case closed.

      • inspgadget365 says:

        This is arguably a strawman, but this is where our concern comes from. You are at a gas station, a guy comes up attacks you with a knife, or even an unarmed 6’2 200lb man vs girl 5’1 98lbs (even without a weapon that is a major disparity of force.) you fight back using a gun because you are in fear of your life. Along comes Corey, whether the attacker dies or not Corey arrests you because you dared to use a gun, taking you away from work and family. You no longer have an income, you are probably fired because you have been arrested before a trial has even happened. You now owe thousands upon thousands in legal bills you can’t afford. Then you go to trial and the case is almost immediately thrown out by the jury. You are free but you are also broke, jobless, and in debt for the bills you acquired not just from the trial but car payments, rent if you haven’t already been evicted, student loans etc… Your credit rating is hopelessly shot by all of the missed payments so you can’t get a loan to help you recover. Is Corey saying “Schucks My Bad, here is check for your Legal Fees” really gonna help after she has destroyed your life. This is why immunity is so important in FL. I use the example of Jay Rodney Lewis in Des Moines, Iowa because Iowa had no Immunity at the time. And look at the damage done to him.

        (2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.

        This allows Police to investigate your self defense claim but is supposed to prevent Corey from destroying you life unless she can show sufficient probable cause to a Judge (We are trying to change that to a Grand Jury) that the force you used was unlawful. The other part of immunity protects you from Civil Claims by the attacker. In some states there is no Civil Immunity, in those states even though you have been declared innocent of a crime because of self defense, the attacker can sue your pants off after he attacks you for damages that occurred to him during his crime. Treatment for Gunshot wounds, emotional damage from being shot, etc…

        If police are allowed to arrest you without sufficient probable cause, then you are at the mercy of any police or prosecutor that happens to not like you hair, the color of your skin, your sex, etc… If Martin had won that fight and killed Zimmerman this would have applied to Martin, if Martin had survived I can see a self defense claim by both sides. I do want to see an Investigation of the Investigators. Did SPD have enough to arrest and decide not to, or did Corey have Gilbreath and O’Steen write the PC Affidavit with incorrect information just to get an arrest due to public pressure.I don’t particularly care about Zimmerman, but for the reasons I listed, I am concerned that his rights to defend himself were not violated due to public pressure. If Martin had killed Zimmerman I would be standing by his right to defend himself without being just thrown in jail until trial without Probable Cause. After all according to Corey anyone over 12 can be tried as an adult (see Christian Fernandez case).

      • Jun says:

        What does any of that crap you say, have anything to do with George Zimmerman?

        Inspgadget, you are the one using a strawman argument. This is not a case where George was attacked out of the blue. This is a case where George targeted a kid, played wanna be cop, started stalking the kid in the dark of the night, chasing him, confronting the kid, threatening him, and then killing him.

        Would you like to be targeted and stalked by a stranger in the middle of the darkness and then questioned and threatened due to their perception of you?

        You obviously would not. No one has the right to do that to anybody. Probable cause for arrest and indictment is a reasonable grounds to believe a crime was committed.

        What about the dead kid’s rights?

        If you were truly about rights, you would be showing respect for both parties rights.

    • cielo62 says:

      O. M. G. I can’t even begin to fathom your reasoning. Have you even GLANCED at the evidence in this case? Martin was NOT armed and in fact was RUNNING AWAY. GZ continued to follow him, which makes GZ the aggressor, no matter how Martin would have decided to respond. Martin had ZERO DNA in him. ZERO. He did not touch GZ and that is proven FORENSICALLY. GZ is a murderer and his minimum sentence will be 35 years.

      Sent from my iPod

  11. Mary Davis says:

    @ inspgadet. Remember, we are not prosecuting Zimmerman. That is for the court system. We are only voicing our opinion. But keep in mine, he will be prosecute, not only by Flordia’s court system, but the Federal system as well. Since you talk about the law, remember he is not above the law.

  12. Mary Davis says:

    @ inspgadget. So what are you saying. You are not on Zimmerman’s side, but on he side of his rights. What about Treyvon’s rights. Would you be on the side of Zimmerman’s rights if it were your just turned 17 year old son, or even someone you loved dearly. I don’t think so. I think you would want justice for your loved one. Don’t worry, he will be prosecuted according to Florida’s laws as well as federal laws. .

  13. inspgadget365 says:

    Are you folks sure you want to do this?

    The Civil Rights division did start an investigation at the Direction of Eric Holder, and some of that investigation is part of the Discovery. CRD was sent in to look at a possible Civil Rights Violation being the cause of Zimmerman’s identifying Martin as a Criminal (Zimmerman violating Martins Civil Rights), they cleared Zimmerman of a Civil Rights violation and said he did not accuse Martin of being suspicious because of his race. But during that investigation, they discovered that 4 Officers including Serrino possibly had a Civil Rights violations against Zimmerman. This investigation was not closed, but it also was not pursued by Holders DOJ for a reason, it was left open and CRD effectively went home. If I had any faith in CRD after the New Black Panther debacle in Philly when they closed a case that was already won, I would say send them in back in. I would advise you to be careful what they ask for, if CRD pursues this investigation, it could with CRD prosecuting SPD and Angela Corey’s office for violating Zimmerman’s Civil Rights then the charges against Zimmerman get thrown out.


    (Insp. G: Since I cant copy and paste from the PDF file I have retyped this document on 17 Jul, 2012. For actual review of the entire document go to http://www.scribd.com/doc/99942204/Serino-s-FBI-Interview-2-Pges-1

    Sanford Police Investigator, CHRISTOPHER SERINO, work phone number XXX-XXX-XXXX, personal cell XXX-XXX-XXXX was interviewed at Sanford Police Station on March 3, 2012 at approximately 11:00 am. After being advised of the identities of the interviewing agenda, SA Elizabeth C Alexander and SA Matthew Oliver, and the nature of the interview, he provided the following information:

    Investigator Serino reviewed the police report dated 03/12/2012 in which he wrote, “The encounter between GEORGE ZIMMERMAN and TRAYVON MARTIN was ultimately avoidable by ZIMMERMAN, if ZIMMERMAN had remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement, or conversely if he had identified himself to MARTIN as a concerned citizen and initiated dialog in an effort to dispel each party’s concern. There is no indication that TRAYVON MARTIN was involved in any criminal activity at the time of the encounter. ZIMMERMAN, by his statements made to the call taker and recorded for review, and his statements made to the investigators following the shooting death of MARTIN, make it clear that he had already reached a faulty conclusion as to MARTIN’s purpose for being in the neighborhood.”

    Agents asked SERINO about the above statement and he replied that just the act of following him (MARTIN) was the instigation (of ZIMMERMAN) and nothing else. SERINO believed that ZIMMERMAN’s actions were not based on skin color rather based on his attire, the total circumstances of the encounter and the previous burglary suspects in the community.

    Serino explained to agents that the local gangs, referred to in the community as “GOONS”, typically dressed in black and wore hoodies. Serino believes that when ZIMMERMAN saw MARTIN in a hoody, ZIMMERMAN took it upon himself to view MARTIN as acting suspicious. Serino described ZIMMERMAN as overzealous and having a “little hero complex”, but not as a racist. Serino explained that on numerous occasions he asked ZIMMERMAN specifically if he followed MARTIN based on his skin color and ZIMMERMAN never admitted to this fact.

    Serino told agents that he talked to ZIMMERMAN on numerous occasions and feels he knows him fairly well. Serino thinks that ZIMMERMAN does not want to be a cop because cops have a bad reputation and are bullies, but he wants to be a judge. Serino described ZIMMERMAN as being a “soft guy”. Serino believed that ZIMMERMAN’s story appeared “scripted” as in ZIMMERMAN knew the right things to say to the police. For example, he said he feared for his life, claimed self defense, etc.

    Serino reached out to several sources in the white supreamicist community and no one ever heard of ZIMMERMAN. Serino thought that there had been approximately five burglaries in the Retreat at Twin Lakes within the last year and a half.

    Serino is concerned that, any of the leaks in this case are coming from within the Sanford Police Dept. He listed Sgt AUTHOR BARNS, REBECCA VILLENOVE (phonetic), and TREKELL PERKINS as all pressuring him to file charges against ZIMMERMAN after the incident. Serino also stated that Barns is friendly with TRACY MARTIN and Barns asked Serino for Martin’s phone number but ended up getting the phone number from another source. Serino believed that after his conversation with Tracy Martin regarding the death of his son, Tracy Martin left the police station understanding why charges against ZIMMERMAN had not been filed. Serino was not sure why or when Tracy Martin changed his views and Martin believes the shooting was racially motivated.


    On a side note Chris Serrino has hired Jose Baez (Casey Anthony Fame) as his lawyer in the Zimmerman case, since he could possibly face Civil Rights Violations against Zimmerman.


    • Xena says:

      I would say send them in back in. I would advise you to be careful what they ask for, if CRD pursues this investigation, it could with CRD prosecuting SPD and Angela Corey’s office for violating Zimmerman’s Civil Rights then the charges against Zimmerman get thrown out.

      Nope. State’s rights. Remember that issue during the Civil War?

    • Malisha says:

      inspg, saying that George Zimmerman did not commit a hate crime is not the same as saying he did not violate Trayvon Martin’s civil rights! Trayvon Martin had a right to travel unmolested from the 7-11 to his dad’s place on 2/26/2012 and he had a right to not answer questions that might be put to him by some guy with a “little hero” complex — even a SOFT guy with a “little hero” complex — or by anyone else. The only person he did not have a right to refuse to answer questions from was a law enforcement officer doing his job and having probable cause to ASK Trayvon Martin questions that night.

      So saying George is not a racist (which I do not believe is a finding that has been or even could be made by the CRD) is not the same as saying he did not violate Trayvon Martin’s civil rights.

      Also, Chris Serino did not violate George Zimmerman’s rights by anything he did because no person has a right to NOT be investigated for an alleged criminal act if in fact there is probable cause to suspect that he DID engage in a criminal act. The other three officers you think might be vulnerable to some claim of violating George’s rights did nothing to George and are entitled to their opinions about what was done to Trayvon Martin.

      Of course, the only way George’s violation of Trayvon’s rights could have been actionable per se as a constitutional violation would be if George was acting in concert with a state actor. AHA is where we come to in that circumstance. AHA if he was acting in concert with the SPD who had ignored calls for help from the community about George’s dangerous behavior. AHA if he was acting in concert with any police officer in obstructing justice. AHA if he was acting in concert with any state actor in covering up or ignoring evidence.

      But I believe it is pretty obvious that Trayvon Martin had a life interest in his life. He also had a life interest in walking around whether “leisurely” and “skipping” or “running” and “suspicious.” He had that right and the fact that it was taken from him does indicate that he was deprived of it. The violation of Trayvon Martin’s life interest might have been done by George Zimmerman acting alone and it might have been done by George Zimmerman in conspiracy with state actors, in which case it would have probably been a violation of federal law.

      • Malisha says:

        AND who is Serino to say that George’s motivation was not hatred? Because he asked George if George was racist and George denied it? I’d like that same standard to have been used for every African American defendant on death row — “he denied it” — so they weren’t guilty? Think of it. Wow.

      • inspgadget365 says:

        I am not on Zimmerman’s side, I am on the side of Zimmerman’s rights, there is a big difference, the rights he has are the same rights all of us in Florida are supposed to have. If you can prosecute him in accordance with Florida and Federal law, then go ahead and sentence him to Ol’Sparkey. If you want to make the environutz happy do it at noon using solar power, but they had better do it in accordance with the laws of the land. Angela Corey has a long history in our state, Christian Fernandez was sentenced to Life in Prison at 12yo, yes I said 12 Years Old (Hispanic if you want to bring race into this), Marissa Alexander (African American if you are interested) was just sentenced to 20 years for firing a warning shot while defending herself from a abusive husband, because she dared to use a legally owned gun, all by Angela Corey. I want to see a Civil Rights investigation of all of them on both sides, because there are shenanigans going on. Classified Police reports were repeated verbatim by lawyers on TV before they were released. Accusations being made by third parties while threatening violence, News outlets (that are now being sued) altering audio tapes to drive a narrative that was not there. I want to see Justice for all, not on behalf of one side or the other. Casey Anthony was rushed to trial and she got off, now they have more evidence that could have hung her, but she can never be prosecuted on it since they rushed to make an arrest. They rushed to make an arrest in this case in violation of 76.032 Immunity and will probably end this case the same way. If they had waited they may be able to find more evidence to have a legitimate Probable Cause Affidavit, but they couldn’t wait and violated the law the required Probable Cause before arrest.

        776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—

        (2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.


        My analysis of the Probable Cause affidavit. This Affidavit was signed by Det. Gilbreath and Det. O’Steen, and forwarded to the court by Angela Corey. My comments are in ()

        On Sunday 2/26/12, Trayvon Martin was temporarily living at the Retreat at Twin Lakes, a gated community in Sanford, Seminole County, Florida. That evening Martin walked to a nearby 7-11 store where he purchased a can of iced tea and a bag of skittles. Martin then walked back to and entered the gated community and was on his I way back to the townhouse where he was living when he was profiled by George Zimmerman. Martin was unarmed and was not committing a crime.

        Zimmerman who also lived in the gated community, and was driving his vehicle — observed Martin and assumed Martin was a criminal. Zimmerman felt Martin did not belong in the gated community and called the police. Zimmerman spoke to the dispatcher and asked for an officer to respond because Zimmerman perceived that Martin was acting suspicious. The police dispatcher informed Zimmerman that an officer was on the way and to wait for the officer.

        (# 1:30 PD: “Yeah we’ve got someone on the way, just let me know if this guy does anything else.” This is the first mention of Officers on the way, this is in no way “Wait for the Officer” it is in fact a general request for information. The next reference to Officers is at # 2:53 PD: “Alright George we do have them on the way, do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?” )

        During the recorded call Zimmerman made reference to people he felt had committed and gotten away with break-ins in his neighborhood. Later while talking about Martin, Zimmerman stated “these assholes, they always get away” and also said “these fucking punks”.

        (# 2:18 GZ: “The back entrance…fucking [unintelligible]” CNN said this was Coons and got shot down in flames, it sounds like cold but that is all up to the listener to determine.)

        During this time, Martin was on the phone with a friend and described to her what was happening. The witness advised that Martin was scared because he was being followed through the complex by an unknown male and didn’t know why. Martin attempted to run home but was followed by Zimmerman who didn’t want the person he falsely assumed was going to commit a crime to get away before the police arrived.

        (According to her he made it home, in order for the fight to take place he had to return to the north end of the T, either that or he never left the north end of the T in the first place.)

        Zimmerman got out of his vehicle and followed Martin. When the police dispatcher realized Zimmerman was pursuing Martin, he instructed Zimmerman not to do that and that the responding officer would meet him. Zimmerman disregarded the police dispatcher and continued to follow Martin who was trying to return to his home.

        (# 2:23 PD: “Are you following him?” # 2:25 GZ: “Yeah” # 2:26 PD: “Ok, we don’t need you to do that.” # 2:29 GZ: “Ok”)

        Zimmerman confronted Martin and a struggle ensued. Witnesses heard people arguing and what sounded like a struggle. During this time period witnesses heard numerous calls for help and some of these were recorded in 911 calls to police. Trayvon Martin’s mother has reviewed the 911 calls and identified the voice crying for help as Trayvon Martin’s voice.

        (Up to this point no crime has been committed by either party. According to his testimony Gilbreath is basing Zimmerman starting the confrontation solely on the fact that there was a confrontation with no evidence or witness statements to contradict who started the fight. He also admitted that he had not asked the Mother to verify that it was her son’s voice, yet he admitted he had not asked her to identify the voice. When the father was asked he said it was not his son’s voice yet Gilbreath claimed no knowledge of it. There was no official analysis that can determine whose voice it is, even though it was given to FBI crime labs. I will paste the questioning on voice analysis at the end)

        Zimmerman shot Martin in the chest. When police arrived Zimmerman admitted shooting Martin. Officers recovered a gun from a holster inside Zimmerman’s waistband. A fired casing that was recovered at the scene was determined to have been fired from the firearm.


        The following is the comments from Gilbreath about voice analysis:

        O’MARA: Witnesses heard people arguing, sounded like a struggle. During this time, witnesses heard numerous calls for help. Some of this was recorded. Trayvon’s mom reviewed the 911 calls and identified the cry for help and Trayvon Martin’s voice. Did you do any forensic analysis on that voice tape?

        GILBREATH: Did I?

        O’MARA: Did you or are you aware of anything?

        GILBREATH: The “Orlando Sentinel” had someone do it and the FBI has had someone do it.

        O’MARA: Is that part of your investigation?

        GILBREATH: Yes.

        O’MARA: Has that given any insight as to the voice?

        GILBREATH: No.

        O’MARA: Did Trayvon Martin’s mom identify that voice as soon as she heard it or were there concerns as to the identity of that voice?

        GILBREATH: I did not speak with her.

        O’MARA: How about the dad’s ability to identify whether or not that was Trayvon’s voice?

        GILBREATH: No.

        O’MARA: You’re not aware of any inquiries made to Trayvon’s dad as to whether or not he could identify that voice as being his son’s?

        GILBREATH: No.

        • Xena says:

          I am not on Zimmerman’s side, I am on the side of Zimmerman’s rights, there is a big difference, the rights he has are the same rights all of us in Florida are supposed to have.

          Sounds like you are on Zimmerman’s side because you have, IMO, added unqualified interpretation into things. In other cases you refer to, you fail to mention if the defendants received trial by jury or a bench trial before they were sentenced. Also, you give Corey a bit too much authority. She has authority to recommend sentencing to the court, but no authority to issue sentencing. That is the judge’s decision. You blame Corey for the sentencing.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          What’s the point? According to the rules and the law, the two of them should never have met in the first place, in the second place, if they did meet, GZ should not have been carrying a firearm. In the third place GZ should have identified himself.

          Surely you are not suggesting that a 155 lb 17 year old, living a pretty sedentary life, a stranger to violence of any type, turned and confronted the 204 lb adult he had been running from?

          What reason do you have that TM’s fear should have suddenly turned into aggression? Because all the psychologist I know will tell you that doesn’t happen until one is cornered and in most human cases not even then. TM would certainly not cover hundreds of feet to seek an encounter with someone bigger, older and scary!

          While on the other hand, GZ had no right to even keep an eye on TM, less place himself in his company, because he doesn’t wear a uniform and he doesn’t carry a badge. He has witnessed nothing illegal, his whole idea that there’s some reason to even be interested in TM is just a paranoid fantasy, as in “unreasonable” fear.

          Without GZ’s call, no police would be able to justify an approach/confrontation with TM! Thus GZ’s wild imaginings cannot be used to justify his illegal actions! It is illegal to cause another person to fear for their life! Meaning that GZ confronted TM at the mail boxes first! Knowing that TM was in fear, GZ should have stayed put and waited for the police! They had all the information they needed to find him and they even told him to cease and desist, meaning they needed no further assistance from him!

          If anyone wants to get technical, GZ interfered with an open police investigation! His own report opened the police investigation, and his own refusal to remove himself, upon expressed police request, led to him precluding the police investigation in an unwarranted death.

          There is no point of law upon which GZ can win, even before he opens his mouth to tell another version of the events.

      • Xena says:

        (According to her he made it home, in order for the fight to take place he had to return to the north end of the T, either that or he never left the north end of the T in the first place.)

        Nope. According to DeeDee, Trayvon said he was by his dad’s house. Houses have a front and a back. Trayvon earlier told DeeDee that he was going to run “from the back.” To run “from the back” means he was going to the front of the house.

        George admits that he was on Retreat View Circle when the dispatcher told him “We don’t need you to do that.” He made it there before Trayvon could — by George’s account, that is.

      • inspgadget365 says:

        Under FL law you have mandatory minimum sentencing, this is applied by the charges you are convicted of. In both of the cases Corey could have written the charges to give the judge leeway on sentencing. In both cases she wrote charges up to use Mandatory minimum sentencing as a tool to force the Judges to sentence IAW her wishes. Take the case of Ronald Thompson.



        Ronald Thompson case

        In 2009, Ronald Thompson, a 65-year old Army veteran fired two shots into the ground to scare off teenagers who were demanding entry into his friend’s house in Keystone Heights, Florida.

        Angela Corey prosecuted Thompson for aggravated assault, and after he refused a plea agreement with a three-year prison sentence, won a conviction that would carry a mandatory 20-year sentence under Florida’s 10-20-Life statute. The trial judge, Fourth Circuit Judge John Skinner called the 20-year sentence “a crime in itself” and declared the 10-20-Life statute unconstitutional. Skinner gave Thompson three years instead.

        Angela Corey appealed the 3-year sentence and won, sending Thompson to prison for 20 years.

        In June 2012, Fourth Circuit Judge Don Lester granted Thompson a new trial, ruling that the jury instructions had been flawed in his original trial regarding the justifiable use of deadly or non-deadly force given the circumstances of the case. Thompson has been freed and awaits a decision by Angela Corey’s office on a new trial.

        • Xena says:

          Under FL law you have mandatory minimum sentencing, this is applied by the charges you are convicted of. In both of the cases Corey could have written the charges to give the judge leeway on sentencing.

          Oh no! The State would have to change the charge altogether. Would you expect Corey to do,charge them with littering to avoid statutory sentencing for the crime they did commit?

          I do remember in the Alexander case that she was offered a plea and, IIRC, it was 3 yrs. Alexander decided to go to trial. Corey’s hands were tied thereafter and Alexander was found guilty and received statutory sentencing.

        • cielo62 says:

          It seems Angela Corey plays hard ball. I don’t know enough about your examples to rebut but it seems she is doing exactly what she needs to he doing on behalf of the VICTIMS whose rights often get forgotten, especially if they are dead. The 12 year old you mentioned deserves to be kept indefinitely away from society for the horrible murder he committed on a much younger child. People argue that he is young enough to be rehabilitated. His life story is tragic and filled with violence and abuse. And you think a person twisted by that much rage and hatred can be magically “cured” to be a living, caring member of society? Do you believe in the Easter Bunny as well?

          Sent from my iPod

      • inspgadget365 says:

        Corey has a habit of overcharging to try and force a plea deal, she did the same here by going for 2nd instead of Manslaughter, This way she can try to force Zimmerman to plea out instead of a full trial. If this backfires (GZ is given Immunity by new Judge or Acquitted of 2nd by a Jury) then Corey, BDLR, Gilbreath and O’Steen along with the 4 officers CRD identified are open to Malicious Prosecution and denying Zimmerman’s Civil Rights under the 14th Amendment right to Liberty. Lack of Probable Cause is one on the Criteria for Malicious Prosecution, and Corey could have easily avoided that by using a Grand Jury.

        4 Elements to Malicious Prosecution:

        (1) that the original case was terminated in favor of the plaintiff,
        – either a 776.032 Immunity Ruling or Acquitted by a Jury.

        (2) that the defendant played an active role in the original case,
        – pretty self explanatory.

        (3) that the defendant did not have probable cause or reasonable grounds to support the original case.
        – The original prosecutor had already declared this, and Corey’s PC Affidavit is ripe for tearing apart as I have shown.

        (4) that the defendant initiated or continued the initial case with an improper purpose.
        – Corey, her team, and the 4 officers identifies by CRD were told by the original prosecutor there was not enough to overcome probable cause and make an arrest, If they show that Corey arrested at the urging of outside interests that fulfills this criteria.

        • Xena says:

          Those are a lot of “if’s” you are using. Malicious prosecution is a civil action and redress is generally in a form of damages. GZ has lost nothing. He abandoned his home and job within 12 hours of killing Trayvon Martin. He has lived off the money of other people since and in fact, was served a benefit by paying off his pre-Feb. 26th debts with money donated to him.

          George ZImmerman was served a gain by killing Trayvon Martin — even the gaining of weight.

        • Judge Lester ruled back in May or June that there was probable cause to support the murder 2 charge. Absent a showing that his finding of probable cause was based on false information provided by the named defendants in a subsequent civil suit for malicious prosecution, a judge will have to dismiss the civil case with prejudice, even if a jury acquited Zimmerman.

        • cielo62 says:

          Oh MOM. Go to bed already! We’ve coveted this already. Go back about 10 posts and start reading.

          Sent from my iPod

      • Rachael says:

        Inspgadget: “Martin attempted to run home but was followed by Zimmerman who didn’t want the person he falsely assumed was going to commit a crime to get away before the police arrived.”

        Do you understand what you have written?

      • Jun says:

        Malicious Prosecution is only proven if the litigation was brought on with no probable cause. The is probable cause to believe George committed murder. I dont believe the charge was overboard. They have reasonable belief and probable cause that George committed murder with a disregard for human life and a depraved mind. George stalked, chased, threatened and terrorized a kid with his physical prowess, mental instability, and gun, before shooting the kid in the heart, throwing the kid facedown, sitting on the kid’s back asphyxiating him, then seen rubbing his hands all over the victim, a kid, molesting his body, showing disregard for even a dying kid. That is not normal behavior. Also, they can always choose manslaughter over murder 2 at trial, just as they did in the Montanez case where he murdered and claimed self defense. The state could prove the murder but they had trouble convincing the depravity and the disregard for human life to the jury. George is getting his due process and fair trial so he really has no case for malicious prosecution.

      • Jun says:

        The DOJ nor the FBI have cleared him. They have not stated anything on their position nor do they have to, as they are not under sunshine law of FL. The DOJ and the FBI are likely awaiting the outcome of the murder trial to decide what they want to do.

    • Dan Q. Smith says:

      Yes, Zimmerman just got confused because there really are black “goons” in hoodies only Trayvon turned out not to be in that gang! /s

      Serino’s BS is too much.

  14. Lonnie Starr says:

    214 and rising now.

  15. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    My heart goes out to Tracey, Sabrina, Deedee and his family. I pray that God will comfort them in their sorrow and pain. They will never get Trayvon back. They will never find another Trayvon——

    CLICK> 2:03 The Seekers – I’ll never find another you (1968)by Proculled6,004,958 views

  16. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    You can click “recent petitions” on the White House petition site and
    ours it at the TOP!!!!!!!! WOOOO HOOOOO!

  17. colin black says:

    i WENT TO REGISTER SAID COUNT AT 160….Filled it out an then it said I would receive an e mail to finnish process of reg…E Mail never arrived…..ps ten months to the day Trayvon was murdered

  18. You all have thoughtful comments says:


  19. Brown says:

    Today is the 9 month anniversary of the shooting death of Trayvon Martin. My thought and prayers are with Trayvon and his family.
    I am extremely proud of all of us here and around the world for the continuing efforts in bringing Justice for Trayvon Martin.
    Many thanks and blessings to all of you and our very dedicated Blog Host, Mr. Leatherman.

  20. Malisha says:

    Lonnie S, you say: “He seems to think that each time he’s asked what happened, the slate gets wiped clean and he has a chance to start over again with a new and improved tale.”

    Not only that, but he thinks he can explain away each little piece of the event with a separate explanation that does not have to fit into any larger picture.

    So if they ask, “well if you didn’t follow him how come you got out of the car?” he says, “to find an address.”

    Nevermind that finding an address doesn’t go into the story at that point in time, that it makes no sense, that he never DID report back on any address — presented with a question, “How come you got out of your car?” he figures he can come up with an answer, “to find an address” and it disposes of that issue.

    The really bewildering and disorienting thing about this is that to logical, rational people, this kind of answer is astonishing because we KNOW it is wrong. We see it in context; we judge it in context. But he simply looks upon information as “that which is handed to people to explain to them how they should think” so he finds it perfectly reasonable to say “to find an address.” After all, it is an answer to that question, isn’t it? Why shouldn’t that be the end of the issue? You calling him a liar? How do YOU know why he got out of the car: didn’t he just tell you why?

    So piece by piece he will explain things away thinking that’s all he needs to do.

    “Why is he suspicious?”
    “He’s leisurely and it’s raining.”

    “Why should leisure in the rain be suspicious?”
    “He’s not a hard-core athlete.”

    “Why are you worried?”
    “Somebody looked at me wrong near Taaffe’s house one time. Oh, and my wife is scared of a dog.”

    Question, answer.
    Question, answer.

    Get it?

    Strangely, when I was helping protective parents prepare their evidence for the child protective services agencies, we would end up hearing the same idiotic kind of explanations for little pieces of evidence that needed to be “explained away.”

    “How did these bruises show up?”
    “She could have fallen.”

    “If she fell why didn’t she say so?”
    “She could have wanted to hide something.”

    “If she’s not scared of her father why is she screaming?”
    “She could have been told to scream.”

    “If Desitin ripped her hymen, how come there isn’t any warning on the Desitin containers?”
    “People might not have complained about it before.”

    Little piece, little answer, no coherence, no logic, no “big picture” at all.

    “Why didn’t you explain you were from Neighborhood Watch?”
    “I don’t know; I guess I didn’t want to confront him.”

    Guess what, Cheorge, those walls are still green.

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      GZ: “To find an address.”
      Question: What was the address?”
      GZ: “I don’t know, my contacts were bothering me.”

    • Jun says:

      Everything Cheorge said is gonna be used against him so bad, and he has contradicted himself so many times and been inconsistent that it will not look innocent anymore

      One of my observations is Cheorge stated that…

      he said yeah to the question proposed if he was following Trayvon, the dispatch told him that it was not needed, and Cheorge said okay…

      Then Cheorge claimed in the interview at the OK, that he was at RVC after going through the top of the T intersection all the way to RVC

      This is in direct contradiction to his re-enactment story

      Because for Cheorge to have continued stalking Trayvon and he was at RVC, that would mean that Trayvon ran down RVC, for Cheorge to be there

    • “Why didn’t you explain you were from Neighborhood Watch”
      “I don’t know, I guess I didn’t want to confront him.”

      When Georgie finally DID confront Trayvon and Tryvon asked “What are you following me for?”, WHY at that point didn’t Georgie state that he was the Neighborhood Watch person and then ASK Trayvon who he was?……

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Because the police were coming and George could not be found there, with a scared little kid in one hand, a gun in the other and a head covered with blood. At least not with Trayvon alive to tell his side of the story and all that he actually saw.

        Something happened that Trayvon witnessed that he had to be silenced. I just can’t believe that GZ is able to kill for kicks. He just doesn’t fit the profile of someone who kills for thrills. He’s just too simpleminded to be anything more than “mechanically” operated. He can kill in anger, he can kill to cover up, but he can’t simply put together a hunt and kill by himself. Not and contrive it so that he can get away with it. For him to have any chance at surviving a murder, he has to rely on the largess and help of others. He’s no Gacy, he’s no Son of Sam, he’s more like a Ruby.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Yep, golly George, if you didn’t want to confront him you should have stayed in your truck, period.

      We had a guy like George who flunked the bar exam 17 times and continued to hang around the Fordham Law School Library making trouble with his strange legal arguments for years. This guy was truly frightening, he rented a room in an elderly man’s apartment, then tried to use the law to take over the leasehold. The terrible thing is, if the old man had not found elder law representation from a not-for-profit group, he could easily have lost his apartment to this creep.
      The guy filed a welter of actions/motions hoping to win by default. after he simply overwhelmed the poor guy. He was also violent as well. He finally stepped over the line when he tried to work an insurance fraud, they put him away and that was the last we heard of him.

      I thought these trouble makers would be spotted easily before hand. Most people who fail the bar a few times just move on to greener pastures. Only a crazed few hang on till well past reason. GZ seems to be one of these “fixated” types. No real understanding of law, but a strong desire to practice. I’ll bet there are plenty of these types at law schools and police dept’s all around the country, however most of them are harmless.

      Zimmerman is really just a nutcase with a terrible psychological problem.

      • Malisha says:

        Obsessed. Overarching sense of entitlement. Resentful, and with an attitude that the world is a hostile place where he must force it (the world) to submit to his will, and that is his life’s project. Absolutely unreasonable, proud of the fact that he does not compromise. Shallow. No empathy. Pompous. And an underlying, well deserved sense of low self-esteem.

  21. Dennis says:

    The police department’s handling of the Martin shooting clearly confirms my general assumptions about police officers. The problem with cops is, they are mostly all crooked. They will lie to protect other cops and save the department at all costs. Cops are useless and are never there when you actually need them. Whenever cops do something illegal, they get a slap on the wrist instead of justice like normal citizens get. Recently, a police officer murdered an innocent Pitbull that was in a fenced yard and the officer had no warrant or probable cause to enter the property. The man should never be allowed to carry a weapon ever again.

  22. Brown says:

    We Can Do This!!!
    AS OF OCTOBER 3, 2011:

    To cross the first threshold and be searchable within WhiteHouse.gov, a petition must reach 150 signatures within 30 days.

    To cross the second threshold and require a response, a petition must reach 25,000 signatures within 30 days.

  23. colin black says:

    Can non U S residents sign..petition?

    • Patricia says:

      Yes, Colin – I saw one yesterday from Wales.

      The whole world is watching this case. Keep in mind that many US citizens are abroad, studying, on work assignments, or on holiday in other countries. While it asks for a zip code (postal code) to help identify geographic locales – showing a wide interest from signers – that’s not mandatory.

      Member o the human race? Looking for justice? Sign on!

      • gbrbsb says:

        Thanks Patricia, didn´t work the other day but I tried again and… hey presto I signed!

      • grahase says:

        Patricia – many non-Americans are following this case. I did not think I could sign either until someone told me to just eave the zip code out. Someone should let non-Americans know to be sure Trayvon’s voice is heard from around the world.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Well thanks Patrica, that’s good to know. I would have thought they’d only let U.S. citizens vote, but it makes more sense to let anyone vote. I just have to wonder if foreign votes will count towards the 25,000 goal? No matter, if we make 25k the small extra difference will easily be made up as well.

        Actually, we’ve got a really good petition, that makes it easy for people to sign, no radical language and such. LLMPapa’s video only put icing on the cake, so to speak and it’s powerfully moving in it’s own right. Best yet, it’s pleasant and easy to watch! Yahoooo!

        • Brown says:

          @ Lonnie
          Anyone 13 or older can create or sign a petition on WhiteHouse.gov

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            They’ve got it figure to a tee, few if any petitions will make 25k sigs in just 30 days. This has a chance as the word spreads exponentially.
            LLMPapa’s video is so strongly moving it got to be helping big time.

            Anyone surfing youtube here’s a link ready to be posted in the comments, it’s designed to past post their stop bot:

            h t t p : / / t i n y u r l . c o m / b u g n 2 9 2 remove all the spaces and enjoy the video, then sign the petition for Trayvon

            Try to get it in the comments of popular videos and the political comedy shows and newsy vids.

          • Brown says:

            I be workin’ the net

        • Patricia says:

          @ Lonnie,

          Touched to get a compliment from the writer of the masterful petition! You have the street smarts to know that hype & vitriol just turns people away from signing. They would be signing a document headed to THE WHITE HOUSE! Respectful, calm and factual is what they want to sign, and you delivered. Thank you, Lonnie!

          The White House isn’t going to demand our birth certificate, immigration papers or passport. What you wrote and what we are all seeking, is protection of everybody’s civil rights – which exist to protect everyone on US territory – citizen, non-citizen, documented and undocumented alien, tourist, everybody.

          I was a “landed immigrant” with full legal immigrant visa status for five years before I became a US citizen. Before all that I was in transit across the US and a tourist. From the moment my shoe touched the tarmac, and earlier, within US airspace, I had the same rights to civil liberty that every US citizen had. And, of course, had the same responsibility to comply with US law (plus a few extras, like declaring tax payments every time I left the country – a bit of a chore since I was an airline employee).

          It is important for everybody to understand that the Constitution of the US considers our rights as human beings so sacred that there are no “second class” individuals on US soil – citizen, or not. It gives a new meaning to “the law of the land.” It is the country, and its Constitution, that affords all within its borders, the protections we revere.

          As you know from the news, we as a nation seek to extend the same freedoms – civil rights – to all contries, while we recognize that some countries have not yet evolved to recognize these rights.

          To sum up – the White House, I am certain, would be most pleased to get signatures from citizens all across the globe in recognition of Trayvon Martin’s civil rights – the rights of all of us here, the rights of those in many advanced countries – and the civil rights we hope some day will extend to protect every human being in every country in the world.

          SIGN ON!

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Thank you for your kind words Patricia, I’m also pushing for the Justice Department to be given the duty and power to certify police departments, to ensure that they have operating manuals and that their police know these documents and understand the procedures.
            Thereby ensuring to a healthy degree that Constitutional rights of the citizens are taken seriously into account in formulating police procedures and in actual practice.

            Further the Justice department needs to be require to audit the performance of police departments nation wide, on a reasonable schedule. The fear of discovery by an outside agency, would go a long way towards preventing rogue cliques from forming inside and taking over LE agencies and empower whistle blowers to come forward, by giving them someone outside their agencies to report misconduct to.

            I think that legal eagles everywhere need to get behind such initiatives, because the law is their living, they need to keep the public aware of and work to break up transgressions before they become “too big to tame”. That is the way the preserve the effectiveness of their profession, because if they fail, power will coalesce into ever fewer hands and the rule of law will become an old joke in the end. Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty!

          • cielo62 says:

            That was awesome and inspirational!

            Sent from my iPod

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Thank you all for your kind words of support.

    • gbrbsb says:

      I tried but it asked for a zip code and UK post codes don´t work on US sites. If you do manage leave a reply and I will try again.

    • gbrbsb says:

      Discard my previous reply. Thanks to Patricia and Grahase tried again and it worked…

    • grahase says:

      Yes – just leave zip code blank.

  24. Lonnie Starr says:

    One Hundred and Fifty One, We’re LIVE on the site now and searchable, we’ve made the first threshold in only 2 days!!!

    Now if only we can get some media attention we’ll have the 25,000 and the White House will have to speak out as promised! Of course, at the rate we’re going 25k is a very looooong way indeed.

    In any event we now will have the joy of watching as we outstrip the Outhouse!

    • gbrbsb says:

      Go Lonnie, go go go… 152 and rising!

      • gbrbsb says:

        Just did a search and it works… also noticed we got a couple of the funny ones too… Zimmermanwillfry is there and a few of the others on the outhouse one.

    • Brown says:

      Just posted to Al sharpton’s Msnbc Facebook page

    • Patricia says:

      @Lonnie –

      Congrats and thanks to Lonnie and all JUSTICE enthusiasts! Justice for Trayvon is justice for ALL. Being up on the list, out & visible as a viable petition in less than 36 hours (wow!) will gather more signatures from those who sign on for another petition, then see Lonnie’s stirring words.

      Blessings and thanks to all!

    • Jun says:

      LMAO the David P petition would not even reach the numbers it reached without the joke signatures and duplicate account signatures of Zimmernuts

      and the other part of the failure is that the FBI was and is already investigation Cheorge before the murder indictment so they obviously have no fervor to go against charging Cheorge hence they dont believe that it is malicious prosecution

      If the Feds did investigate for malicious prosecution, it would simply doubly authenticate the evidence against Cheorge and also put the Zimmernuts into investigation for future crimes or obstruction

      So even when they win, they actually lose, with their petition LMAO

  25. colin black says:

    Y A H T C can you send a link?

  26. katieunc says:


    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      Have you discussed Witness 1’s and Witness 6’s sketch together in this forum. If not I would like to present something I discussed on Newsvine. It takes up a bit of space. What would you like me to do?

      • Brown says:

        I’m curious, what do you have?

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Here is the short version of 2 situations that I noticed from GZ statements and Witness 3’s and Witness 6’s statements and their sketches:
        1. George states he was on top holding Trayvon down when he asks Witness 6 for help. Remember Witness 6 didn’t help, but went inside to call 911 and heard the shot while he was inside. According to GEORGE, this means Witness 6 could NOT have seen Trayvon on top.

        I think George made up the story of getting on top of Trayvon after he shot Trayvon because he ASSUMED Witness 6 HAD seen George on top BEFORE he shot Trayvon.
        …………..I really do NOT think Witness 6 discerned the clothing colors as he said he had. BUT, George HIMSELF was worried that Witness 6 HAD, in fact, SEEN George on top, and so, George fudged with the timing and said he (George) was on top because he had to hold Trayvon down AFTER he shot Trayvon.
        I can quote all of the statements if you would like. However, I know from reading all the posts from this forum that it probably is not necessary since you all are great sleuths.
        2. Basically Witness 3 and Witness 6 sketches and statements s contradict George when George said he was lying perpendicular to the dog walk.

  27. Lynn says:

    and besides…He told the FBI he quit the Neighborhood Watch in December. lol

  28. Lynn says:

    Just some morning news concerning Taaffe…http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-frank-taaffe-plea-20121126,0,2999810.story
    Next to the last paragraph bothers me. Why would Rene Stutzman include the FACT (as she states it as so), that Taaffe was not with George when he shot Trayvon???? Proper journalism? Don’t think so. No need to include anything other than he was friends w/ Z. Maybe say “he claims” he was not with him that night…but to STATE IT AS FACT…ridiculous journalism seeming to slant one way. Has MOM gotten his hooks in?

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      I still can’t figure out Frank Taaffe. You would think that after all of his TV interviews supporting his friend George, that he would have signed the GZ petition by now. (And, Osterman, also)

      • jm says:

        Didn’t Team GZ throw Osterman and Taaffe under the bus? Maybe they signed using one of the obscene alias on the petition.

      • Malisha says:

        How ’bout Shellie and her parents? Gladys? All the kids he mentored?

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        I think Gladys signed.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Joe Oliver didn’t sign.

      • Xena says:

        You would think that after all of his TV interviews supporting his friend George, that he would have signed the GZ petition by now. (And, Osterman, also)

        I don’t think they can because they are named witnesses for the State.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        I think you are right, Xena.
        On the subject of Frank Taaffe–
        Zimmerman: He stopped in front of the house and then I drove, there was A CAR LIKE BACKING UP,
        so I, I slowed down,
        and then I drove around him. And he kept looking at me, and then when I passed,oh, it was raining, and I said, you know what, he’s not walking briskly to get out of the rain.

        So, was that car that was “like backing up” Frank Taaffe’s?

        Inspector…Where was he standing at when he stopped
        Zimmerman…Right there, right there, in front of 1460
        Investigator…on the sidewalk or on the grass
        Zimmerman…no, on the grassy area

        Inspector… And then you
        Zimmerman…I drove past him and I went to the clubhouse up here on the right hand side

    • Malisha says:

      So Taaffe did not lose his license?

      So … um … Taaffe is still allowed to drive in Florida? And everywhere else?

      So Cheorge was allowed to run around with a loaded gun and be a danger, and now Taaffe with his “short-range vision” is allowed to drive around and be a danger to everyone, and frankly (no pun intended) Florida is a damn dangerous place whether you’re on foot or in a vee-hickle! Why do New Yorkers even GO there?

    • grahase says:

      Rene Stutzman appears to have a habit of doing just that. Stating things as fact and not quoting sources appears to be her journalistic style. The paper does not seem to mind her unprofessional style because it is selling papers. The truth does not seem to matter with this newspaper. It is all about the numbers. Maybe, after all this GZ crap, she will be wooed by the National Enquirer. Lawrence O’Donnell had her pegged. If you go to YouTube and watch her on his show, you will see this is not the first time she has done this.

    • Dan Q. Smith says:

      This isn’t the first time she’s done this.

  29. Lonnie Starr says:

    The outhouse is still stuck on 141 we’re closing fast.
    If George is watching he’s sinking fast.

    • Brown says:

      @137, I sent link to a whole bunch of other people again today.

    • katieunc says:

      Speaking of the outhouse. Have you read their reasoning as to why people will not sign their petition? They think people are afraid their twitter and other accounts and such will be hacked….pfffffffttt. how about the real reason is GZ only has about 10 supporters. Pathetic!

      • Brown says:

        I think the real reason is because its a “White House Petition” they feel they will be tracked down for they’re hate speech and other disgusting vile stuff they put out there because its a goverment site. They feel “safe” at the Treehouse.

      • Xena says:

        They think people are afraid their twitter and other accounts and such will be hacked….pfffffffttt. how about the real reason is GZ only has about 10 supporters.

        HA! I figured about 25 nationwide. The fact that donations to GZ dwindled to nothing before he went on Hannity’s show should tell him that his betrayal turned people away from him. Why financially support him now after he has paid off his pre-Feb. 2012 debts. He had not been charged when the money began rolling in and apparently planned on fleeing.

        What law abiding citizen would want to help a fugitive?

        GZ and ShelLIE should be creative. They can sell Avon online.

        • jm says:

          “GZ and ShelLIE should be creative. They can sell Avon online.”

          I also thought they could do telemarketing or even do one of the call centers where someone calls to talk phone sex that are advertised on late nght TV. Then there is the psychic network. Chorge would be very good at fantasizng and lying about someone’s future. 😆

          • Xena says:

            I also thought they could do telemarketing or even do one of the call centers where someone calls to talk phone sex that are advertised on late nght TV. Then there is the psychic network. Chorge would be very good at fantasizng and lying about someone’s future. 😆

            LOL@JM. GZ could practice his “help me” on the phone sex, and ShelLIE can repeat “I’m so proud of you” on the psychic network.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        And they have nothing like this:

        • jm says:

          But the other petition was endorsed by Robert Zimmerman Jr on his media tour. 😉 So much for the power RZ Jr has over the “masses” of GZ supporters. Maybe he should find a real job.

      • katieunc says:

        If you look at the GZ petition
        1. A lot of the signatures are from Florida and Virginia…..what does that tell us?

        2. There are a lot of signatures that MOCK GZ……what does that tell us?

        3. That tells us that he has very few supporters or, they are cowards who don’t have the balls to support their racist piece of lying garbage.

      • gblock says:

        “Outhouse 148 after all these days they’re still two short of being listed. Truly sad.”

        And that’s even with some of you “helping them out”.

    • brown says:

      @143 passed it!!!

  30. Lonnie Starr says:

    135 we’re getting closer to being published on the site. Only 15 more sigs and we open on the page and we’re searchable. Woo woo! LLMPapa’s video rocks! I’ve listened to it six times already. lol

  31. Malisha says:

    Treated his wife with preciousness? Who ghosted that damn book?

    He should have treated her with lithium.

  32. Malisha says:

    Eats, shoots, and leaves!
    (doing his duty)…

    • gbrbsb says:

      Great book… great joke… but still have difficulties with punctuation!

      “A panda walks into a café. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and proceeds to fire it at the other patrons.
      “Why?” asks the confused, surviving waiter amidst the carnage, as the panda makes towards the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

      “Well, I’m a panda,” he says, at the door. “Look it up.”

      The waiter turns to the relevant entry in the manual and, sure enough, finds an explanation. “Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves.””

  33. gbrbsb says:

    Don´t know if this synopsis has already been posted here, but no one would guess we discussing the same guy, on the same rainy February night?

    How sickly, tacky, needy, whiny, seedy, peaky, puny, cranky, dodgy, shady, sleazy, murky… can someone get!

    The sound of a single gun shot cut through the quiet, rainy evening and a lanky, black teen, Trayvon Martin, fell to the ground. The shooter was someone Mark and Sondra Osterman spoke with daily. He played Santa for their daughter, treated his wife with preciousness, often ate at their table, and shared their joys and sorrows. The Ostermans are George and Shellie Zimmermans’ best friends. They were the first people Shellie Zimmerman called on that tragic February night in Sanford, Florida.

    Because of serious death threats, the Ostermans took George and Shellie Zimmerman into their home, hiding them for nearly a month. With their own lives in danger, they offered protection and encouragement to their friend, because, he would have done the same.

    As the Ostermans and the rest of the country await news of George’s trial for second degree murder, the couple wants the public to know the George Zimmerman they know; the kind, giving guy who had many black friends; the one doing his duty as a citizen, forced to retrieve his gun and use it because his life was in danger; the George Zimmerman who shed tears upon, learning Trayvon had died at the scene.

    The shooting of Trayvon Martin has been called an American tragedy. Mark and Sondra Osterman believe it will be a greater tragedy if George is convicted for doing anything outside of defending his life on the night of February 26th, 2012. They pray daily that truth and justice prevail for their good friend, the most hated man in America.

    • grahase says:

      Sounds like the seven dwarfs – sickly, tacky, needy,….

    • grahase says:

      They whisked the Zimmermans away the day after the murder — no death threats caused it — nobody even knew who he was.

      • gbrbsb says:

        Don´t know if you are replying to me… I know, isn´t it ridiculous, he told SH he never went back there from that night so what was he hiding fro … the whole text is a farce and so sickly it makes me want to… yuck! It´s written more like a crowd puller for a cheap novel… Ooops, what am I saying, it IS a crown puller for a cheap novel!

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        ……They whisked the Zimmermans away the day after the murder — no death threats caused it — nobody even knew who he was.”
        I think they were putting his BIG mouth into hiding!

    • cielo62 says:

      Puke! And yet the CTH folks would smile warmly and applaud this mega-tonnage of swine excrement. BTW that was well written. Whose side are you on, anyway? LOL 🙂

      Sent from my iPod

      • gbrbsb says:

        Cieo62 replied:
        “Whose side are you on, anyway? LOL”

        I hope you are not thinking I am on the GZ “side”. I support justice wherever it falls according to my principles, ideas, etc. which I suppose is an opinion of sorts… as a lawyer once told me 50% of barristers (UK court advocates) are right and 50% wrong… i.e. in court one wins and the other loses. Lol! He also laughed at me and said, “you don´t go to court to seek justice”… sadly too often true!

  34. Malisha says:

    Lonnie, Lonnie:
    “‘Undernousiously Zimmerman could not fail to have noticed that, what Martin was doing was wrong at that point in time!’ Stabbing a finger in the air to dramatize the point.”

    Here: Opening argument, O’Mara:

    “Ladies and gentlemen of the Jury, we will show that my client, the prefundant, Cheorge Zimmerman, has done nothing bronze. Nothing bronze at all. Even bronchial. He finished amortizing young Black boys for their trefunculation in school; everybody knows that. Then he set out for the grocery store to frapulan the schmorring, which during the week has more pendillibles. Driving along he noticed a very suspicious and possibly meretricious dorvennicle, hoodie, neither here nor there, I think by now there is no more doubt about that. I think he reacted to the singichee, so would ANYONE! I feel it deep in my plethora; You would too; just think about it; let it sink in for a minute, can anybody here deny that?

    “We will show that Trayvon Martin — and brachiosaurus in prayer every day of his life — you will see photographs of bushes and gabapentin, pernicious anemia, we have the pictures to prove it. So then there was a moratorium. He is not a racist! THOSE WALLS WERE GREEN!

    The defense rests. I’m really tired.”

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      You owe me a coffee and a monitor cleaning!!! LOL

      But, he needs to save this tactic for his closing, otherwise the SP can lay it bare for what it is. Used as a closing, it make him look like he’s done a masterful job. The SP is caught by surprise, but realizes it gives the jurors nothing to use in deliberations, no matter how impressed they may be. So they’ll ignore it and just move on.

      MOM would look very good and statesman like on camera, delivering a masterful stroke of a summation, after which everyone can go home, except Horhay! As they trundle him off to jail, MOM can say “They just wouldn’t listen to reason”, and quickly disappear after shouting his famous rejoinder “Your honor, herewith our notice of appeal”. Leaving him well positioned to run for office in the next election, as a conservative of course.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      I almost spit my tea out just now!

    • OMG!!!!!……LOL.LOL.LOL…Lol/…lollllolollll?/..,,lloollolllllllll;;loolololll;…lollllllllllloolooloolloll….lolllololololl…..heeeeeelp…..meeeeee….I’mmmmm…rooooooollllling…onnnnn…the….flooooor….aaaaaannnnd….caaaaaaannnn’ttt…gettttt….upppppp………….

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      LOL…….that is sooooo funny, Malisha!

    • cielo62 says:

      LOL! I dont know… that all made sense to me!  🙂


  35. Lonnie Starr says:

    Look at us go 127 now outhouse 141

    • jm says:

      Great work Lonnie! Petition is now at 128. I agree with previous poster, keep the link posted for any new posters on this blog so they can easily access the petition. (Not sure if it is a problem to repeatedly post it though.)

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Not a problem for me, I have the new super fragilating M8 memory manager (LOL) http://tinyurl.com/bugn292

        I keep telling people to get it, it allows you to save 25 clips. Then paste them back either bulk (automatically in first to last or last to first order) or just selectively. You also get to store 100 clips that you can easily reuse whenever you want. I have mine fixed to appear whenever I point to the very top of my screen a link appears, if I click it the memory mgr opens, I click minimize and it disappears entirely.

        Of course I’ve been using it for over 12 year so I purchased it, now I can save over 1000 clips 10 clip sheets of 100 clips. All ready to use whenever I need them. Just google spartan memory manager. You’ll be glad you did, especially if you work on the net or with text documents. Oh and it copies images too. No more one clip at a time.
        Well worth the 9.00 price.

  36. Rachael says:

    126 now

  37. Jun says:

    Personally I would do the limine and my point would be about the fact that the case and trial is about George Zimmerman and his actions and that the evidence is sound and is authenticated by all the other evidence

    What the police thought at one point or had evidence of at one point means nothing

    Many years ago they thought the world was flat

    Now its known that the world floats in space and is round

    It is about now at present what they have and that the evidence is sound and they have probable cause and the evidence to prove that George acted illegally and with malice, therefore it is murder 2

    Omara is likely trying this tactic to attack the evidence but it wont work because all the evidence supports each other and there is no evidence rules infringed and the science behind the evidence is sound

    The cops IMO will likely not bring it up and simply say at some point they felt there was insufficient evidence at a certain point to take it to trial and that is that

    The cops definitely do not want to open that door

    • Malisha says:

      Not every argument requires a response.

      The argument, “George should not have been charged” does not require a response.

      The argument, “The police were upset and frustrated” does not require a response.

      The argument, “He killed in self-defense” does require a response. There will be one: NO HE DIDN’T.

      Proceed. 🙂

      • Jun says:


        The problem I see with Omara’s presentation of the issue of Cheorge should not be charges and that there was some conspiracy to set up Cheorge (cue the comedy laughter) is Omara would have to prove that a crime was not apparent and that the evidence is not there when the crime was under probable cause and apparent and the evidence is there. To even get anywhere, he would have to prove Cheorge to not be guilty of murder when in fact Cheorge is 75% guilty since he already did the killing aspect of murder.

        For example, the lack of the type of wounds consistent with being struck in the face about 2 dozen times, punched in the nose, suffocated, and head bashed, authenticates that there is no DNA on Trayvon’s hands or sleeves from Cheorge, and that the witnesses never claiming any savage beating come into play. Witness 6 did claim an MMA beating, but started with wrestling, to now he was not sure if he saw hitting or pinning, but he is sure he did not hear ant striking noises. This all concludes that Cheorge’s black dynamite thug beating bears no resemblance of reality. The DNA forensic tests and evidence is astounding, considering, even when blood is washed off an area, it still remains, as evidenced by the scientific properties of luminol, even over areas where blood is washed and it reacts to it still. For Trayvon to have absolutely nothing on his hands and sleeves is fairly consistent with witness testimony.

        Another aspect is I believe that the cops are fairly safe and they will likely just put the blame on Cheorge for manipulating them with his staging of the SYG claim, especially since Cheorge already has a history of that, and his bond hearing is the most recent.

  38. gbrbsb says:

    MUST BUY Xmas present for all Zimmerfans, Zimmernuts and Zidiots… a George Zimmerman Mouse Pad ! I stumbled on it by accident earlier and just couldn´t resist a little fun… sorry production isn´t great but it´s my first video on YouTube. If anyone want´s one it is sold on Amazon!

  39. Malisha says:

    My friend Tonya P is trying to sign on the petition but she has not been permitted in, to register or to do it. I have had this problem with certain websites, although I must say it was easy for me to sign on and sign this one this time. So I am wondering if anybody has advice on a “how to” simply. If, for instance, she previously signed some petition years ago with this same web-page, and forgot her sign on info., how could she make it let her in this time. If she can’t, she can’t; I’ll just tell her to forward it on to others and to put it up on her facebook page. But if you know a simple way for her to sign in and sign on, let me know.

    • well if she registered with the site with an old email account that could be sticking her if she’s trying to use another. if she still has the old one she could try that if she remembers her password. If she can’t remember the password she can request another password emailed to her. If not using an old email, she should try to register with another (new) email.

  40. FYI new petition for us to sign. Investigate GZ for civil rights violations against Trayvon Martin.


    already almost 100!!!

  41. Digger says:

    It is good you get time to enjoy time away from here, you extend yourself greatly for our benefit and pleasure. Thank you professor.

  42. Rachael says:

    Speaking of race, here is a little gem from the outhouse:

    “doodahdaze says:

    November 25, 2012 at 7:59 pm

    If this ever gets to a jury it will be hung. Whites will vote not guilty and blacks guilty. There might even be jury mayhem and fights. The case is about are you black or are you white. Florida picks juries from the list of driver liscense’s now.”

    First of all, I don’t know what they mean by Florida picks juries (I assume he means potential jurors) from the list of driver’s licenses “now,” – as opposed to what? How did they pick them before?

    And I am TOTALLY opposed to his disgusting racist thinking that the case is about being black or white. I AM WHITE AND I VOTE GUILTY!!!!!

    He needs to come out of his daze and look around. OMG!!!!!

    • cielo62 says:

      And I am a white Hispanic and I ALSO vote him guilty!

      Sent from my iPad

    • Malisha says:

      Doodah-daze is doing Doodoo thinking. Don’t worry about it; it is very common in that intellectual class (as opposed to socioeconomic class, across which it cuts with alarming nondiscrimination).

      He thinks: Peeps like me THINKS like me.
      Then he thinks: I think white.
      Then he concludes: Whites think George is innocent because all he did was kill a thug.
      Then he thinks: Thugs think like other thugs.
      Then he thinks: Trayvon Martin was a thug to object to being dominated and/or killed by a peep like me.
      Then he thinks: So since all Blacks are thugs and all whites think like me, all Blacks on the jury will vote GUILTY and all whites on the jury will vote NOT GUILTY. So the jury will be hung.

      Of course, what he has not thought of is this: Some stupid employee of the Florida Department of Motor Vehicles might have forgotten to write “THUG” on somebody’s license and that will now screw up the whole justice system.

      Damn! Murphy’s Law: Whatever can go wrong WILL go wrong.

    • Malisha says:

      They probably pull juries from voter registrations, not drivers’ licenses, but I don’t really know.

    • Xena says:

      And I am TOTALLY opposed to his disgusting racist thinking that the case is about being black or white. I AM WHITE AND I VOTE GUILTY!!!!!

      Rachael, by that person lumping individuals together to have the same thought processes based on their race, he/she demonstrates racial bigotry. To wit, “Whites will vote not guilty and blacks guilty.”

      Additionally, in regards to race, that person leaves out something pertinent; i.e., not all Whites look upon Latinos as White — but apparently he/she does. But, this case is not about race according to the treeslum, right? Geez.

      • Rachael says:

        And I bet he’s the first to say he isn’t racist. ughhhhh

        • Xena says:

          And I bet he’s the first to say he isn’t racist. ughhhhh

          If not a bigoted racist, he’s uncivilized tribal. He has assumed that Blacks are Tribe A, Whites are Tribe B, and GZ is a member of Tribe C who is an ally of Tribe B, because Tribe A is an enemy to Tribe B. You see, it’s all territorial.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Xena, if they feel that Zimmerman is an ally seeing that he is half hispanic, then why do they all feel the way they do about the Mexicans who come here seeking a better life for themselves and their families? these people are just plain evil to the core and, that’s a fact!

        • Xena says:

          @Xena, if they feel that Zimmerman is an ally seeing that he is half hispanic, then why do they all feel the way they do about the Mexicans who come here seeking a better life for themselves and their families?

          That racial bigoted person sees GZ as an ally because he killed a young Black male. Racial bigots wouldn’t care if Muslim terrorists bomb inner city neighborhoods predominately occupied by Blacks and/or Latinos.

      • aussie says:

        Really doesn’t matter in this case, that GZ is Hispanic and therefore not really very white looking. He’s a sort of lower-grade white. The whites will still vote not guilty, because he is non-Black, see?

        The black thug deserved to be shot, and if it couldn’t be by a white man, a whitish Hispanic would do, at a pinch.

    • Dumb freakin idiot!
      you know, sometimes you just gotta let evolution weed out the weak and feeble minded..can’t help everyone!

    • You said,

      “First of all, I don’t know what they mean by Florida picks juries (I assume he means potential jurors) from the list of driver’s licenses “now,” – as opposed to what? How did they pick them before?”

      Voter registration lists.

    • Jun says:

      They are insults to the human race

      Not only are they racist to blacks and other people of color, they are racist against white people

      They are pretty much thinking and feeling as though white people have no morals and will vote not guilty based on race

      On top of their dumb ass stupidity is the fact that Cheorge is half white half hispanic, so any real racist wont even consider him white and they would be sending another border hopping gang banger

      Aye dios mios!!!

    • ladystclaire says:

      You can fix stupid and, you definitely can fix “IGNORANCE!” what a sad sad country we live in where there are people like this person still in our midst. it’s sad just knowing that we will never rid this nation of those who hate others, just because of the color of their skin.

    • Jun says:

      Does she realize the petition that got over 2 million signatures was started by an irish person ie white person?

      It is kind of ridiculous for her to think a white person can not see right from wrong and this is coming from a non white person like myself

      I am willing to bet many white people signed the Justice For Trayvon petition with over 2 million signatures

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        h t t p : / / t i n y u r l . c o m / b u g n 2 9 2 remove all the spaces and enjoy the video, then sign the petition for Trayvon

        Normally you can’t post links in comments to video on youtube.
        But the above is designed to easily copy and paste into youtube
        comments. Just copy and paste it into a word or note pad document, and then, whenever you see a popular video, just copy and paste into comments.

        I’ve already done a few.

      • cielo62 says:

        Yep! White AND Hispanic!  🙂


    • Dan Q. Smith says:

      They picked them from voter registration.

  43. grahase says:

    Professor – The purpose of the Case is to determine whether or not George Zimmerman is guilty of Murder 2. Zimmerman has not been charged with a hate crime (yet). Therefore, both the Prosecution & Defence should steer clear of anything regarding race. Police misconduct appears to involve both race and privilege (GZs connections). However, the evidence gathered appears to prove GZs Murder 2 charge. In my humble opinion, even if MOM does try to go down that road, the Prosecution should absolutely object. Most important though — Judge Nelson had better have a firm hold on the Prosecution and Defence in this case. The judge must uphold the dignaty of the court system and not allow the rest of the insanity permeate into the courtroom. Save the rest for another day.

  44. Well as long as the officers answer the direct questions with direct/factual answers and keep opinions to themselves! That’s how we get the evidence in. If defense starts asking their opinions, the state objects since they aren’t experts in anything to do with the physical evidence they observed or collected. Their reports speaks to their testimony. Right, it’s not their personal diaries we need?

    • Malisha says:

      See, in the days after the Emancipation Proclamation, and the end of the civil war, when there were cases of “masters” who wouldn’t give up their slaves and wouldn’t follow the law as to how they had to behave under the new system, it became clear that there were courthouses where a man who was said to have murdered someone (who happened to have previously been his slave) or physically brutalized someone (who happened to have previously been his slave) or raped someone (who happened to have previously been his slave) was not getting prosecuted. And it was gradually obvious that Black individuals who sued white individuals (who happened to have previously been their “masters”) were seeing their cases being thrown out of court without getting a hearing. And they were being charged court fees for having tried to seek their rights. And the law passed that is still known as the civil rights act, 42 USC 1983, which was passed in its original form in 1871, a few years after de jure slavery ended, but while de facto slavery was still in effect in many jurisdictions.

      That meant you could go into a FEDERAL court and sue someone for “depriving [you] of constitutionally protected rights under ‘color of state law'” meaning that the law was being used to keep you from getting the rights the law was said to give you.

      Just by NOT PROSECUTING, these southern courthouses were able to keep their nasty conspiracy going ‘under color of state law.’ And that means, if a prosecutor chooses NOT to prosecute, since the prosecutor has “absolute discretion,” you can’t do a thing about it.

      Fast forward.

      Trayvon walks home.
      George kills him.
      Wolfinger says, “do not prosecute.”
      The cops say, “Sure, got it.”
      They make up any ridiculous story they want; they influence witnesses; they put in squirrely and inaccurate reports; they mess up the evidence to the extent possible; they intimidate the parents of the deceased to the extent possible; they lie; they cheat; they collude; they do whatever it takes.

      This is what the federal law is made for. NOT the state law against murder (which, since Corey DID choose to prosecute, will be satisfied by due process) but the federal law against denying someone their constitutionally protected rights “under color of state law.”

      Yeah. That’s what I want to see. In both the DOJ investigation and in the Wrongful Death suits. Yeah.

      • cielo62 says:

        I agree 100%! I’d love to see that deep south attitude deep sixed forever.

        Sent from my iPad

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        ……..”This is what the federal law is made for….. the federal law against denying someone their constitutionally protected rights ‘under color of state law.'”[Malisha]
        Thanks for your clear legal (as well as historical) lesson as it applies to this case,Malisha.

    • leander22 says:

      Amen, Malisha. I have rarely seen you so confident. It’s inspiring.

  45. You all have thoughtful comments says:

    Well, congratulations all of you! I am a new poster here, but I do want you to know that I have quoted many of you on the Newsvine where we have a great team 10 Trayvon advocates who are still commenting under an August 9th NBC article. (We do have to deal with some rough Zimmies)
    LLMPapa, I have posted many of your videos there as well as Trent’s.
    I am so glad you have countered the GZ petition. I just wanted you to know that I have signed yours!
    Lonnie, it would be helpful if you would constantly repost the link for your petition so that people can find it easily.
    Thanks to all of you for your brilliant posts backed by the evidence!
    [I just posted this at the end of the last article. Frederick, I have enjoyed all of your articles!]

    • You all have thoughtful comments says:

      By the way, I followed your discussion about the officer locating Zimmerman’s vehicle. Here is info I posted on the Newsvine–
      .Officer Mike Bernosky (#59 traffic) ran 2 car tags–one of them was Zimmerman’s car license plate.

      from Click>Police Dispatch Audio 54–

      Dispatcher at 00:26………………..”What is the tag?”

      Officer at 00:29 to 00:34………….”816 Kilo Lima Papa. Tell me if it is registered to anyone in Twin Lakes.”

      Dispatcher at 00:50………………”Zimmerman”

      Officer at 00:53………………………Thank you.

      This matches up to the following Police Dispatch EVENT DETAIL log entry –

      “02/26/2012 20:47:15…..W…….TM29…….P1825…….Tag (redaction) Make HONDA Color GRY FDQ (Redaction)”

      For the record–The other tag Officer Mike Bernosky called in just before the one above is heard at Click>Police Dispatch Audio 53 and is recorded by the following Police Dispatch EVENT DETAIL log entry–

      “02/26/2012 20:32:55……W…….TM29……..P1825………Tag (redaction) Make HOND Color White FDQ (redaction)”


      The investigator’s report is odd–

      “Officer Mike Bernosky

      “#59 Traffic

      “Sanford PD

      “He arrived after everything was stabilized. He assisted with crime scene tape. He ran two car tags to attempt to identify the victim as he had no id. The tags came back to people in the complex.

      “He went back to his assignment.

      “He did not prepare a report.”

      Obviously–He was NOT running the tags in “an attempt to identify the victim” but INSTEAD to locate George Zimmerman’s vehicle!!!

      • Xena says:

        Obviously–He was NOT running the tags in “an attempt to identify the victim” but INSTEAD to locate George Zimmerman’s vehicle!!!

        Not sure about that. It would be unusual for a person casing houses to break into, in the rain, to make a get-a-way on foot. It would be just as unusual for a person to lay-in-wait to open up a can of whip-ass on someone and not have the means to escape.

      • aussie says:

        They were looking for strange (out-of-estate_ vehicles that might give them a line on the unknown victim.

        It just happened the tags came back to Zimmerman. In other words someone living there, in other words not the victim, in other words forget about it and don’t try to secure it. IDIOTS.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Thanks for your replies, Xena and aussie. Yes, aussie…. by not securing George’s Honda Ridgeline, the SPD did not demonstrate any professional intelligence.

      • gbrbsb says:

        Hmmm… Grey/silver Honda, GZ… White Honda, who? There was a white truck, (Honda?), parked at the curve of the cut through during the re-enactment that I recall had something to do with MO who accompanied GZ to all his interviews etc., and there is a video or photo of GZ being ushered into a white truck (Honda?) outside the courthouse by MO when acting as his body guard.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        Hi, gbrbsb,
        I just listened to Police Dispatch Audio #53.
        The officer calls in plate tag Alpha Sega Sega 068. (It sounds like “sega”–not totally sure.) The dispatch tells him it will expire on 6-19-2012 and that it is a “station Honda”
        Of course, the officer called this tag in at 8:32:55…… a little more than an hour after GZ shot Trayvon. I think Osterman showed up at the crime scene pretty early on. Hence, if this plate turns out to be Osterman’s, we can probably discount its significance unless Osterman arrived AFTER the plate tag was called in.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        It almost sounds as if some of Police Dispatch Audio is redacted.

    • Logi says:

      Hi thoughtful!! ; ))

  46. Xena says:

    Professor, happy to hear that your Thanksgiving was spent with others from out of town.

    IMO,the fact that Bill Lee and Wolfinger stepped down, should cause O’Mara to pause about his strategy and examine it from the standpoint that with the Chief of Police stepping away, and the State’s Attorney resigning, it conveys an admission of guilt that they did not and were not conducting a proper investigation in the killing of Trayvon Martin.

  47. Fred~ ~ A belated Happy Thanksgiving to You and Yours. I am thankful that you have this great blog. I have learned a lot from you and you write in layman’s terms so it is easy to understand. I faithfully read all your posts. Keep up the good work!!

  48. katieunc says:


  49. I respectfully disagree Professor. I think racism and the inappropriate handling of the case will be the big elephant in the room. I do not see how these same police officers will be called as witnesses, but all (Omara, BLDR, jurors, etc.) are to pretend that magically their testimony is now reliable, unbiased, and forthcoming and the lack of evidence (testing of Zimmerman for alcohol/drugs, moving of car, etc.) or embellishment of evidence by SPD (correcting witnesses, claiming it was Zimmerman frantically screaming, etc.) is not a deal breaker as it relates to this case. I am not a lawyer and trust that you have more experience than I do, but Omara appears to be in a better position in playing this “you don’t say, I won’t say” game than BLDR who I feel needs/has to be ready to challenge any contradictory thing that comes out of their testimony that may be detrimental to the State’s case. I mean is BLDR suppose to not highlight these elements and just ask his next question as though this elephant in the room does not exist. I think it will be the State’s undoing to do so. Yes, they have the autopsy and Zimmerman’s diverse statements, but the police on the stand allowed to go unchecked by the prosecution (if the situation arises) concerning their sloppy work does not seem feasible. What if the jury decides to believe them and feel maybe the Defense has a point that he should not have been charged? Perhaps, this case is also not only a reminder and realization that racism is alive and well, but also an example of what people mean when they say that “the new racism is the denial that racism exists.”

    • Malisha says:

      The issue is that police ineptitude or frank misconduct after the fact does not change the picture the evidence itself presents, and there will be a judge monitoring the proceedings and making decisions on what can come in as evidence, and what cannot come in as evidence, and she is no slouch. She is smart, restrained, perspicacious and experienced. She is not going to let the trial turn into a free-for-all about the Sanford Police Department brou-ha-ha. Thus, evidence will necessarily come in that proves that Cheorge’s claim of self-defense, whether truly believed by the SPD at first or just cynically cited by the SPD at first to cover their cover-up, is invalid, conflicts with the physical forensic evidence that cannot be changed, and is unbelievable. She knows how to run her courtroom. I don’t think the rest of this is significant. It IS of course significant in O’Mara’s public campaign but that will not be the determining factor once those jurors are in that courtroom.

      Even if every single officer who was employed by the SPD put in a report on 2/26/2012 saying he did not think Cheorge should be charged with a crime, and even if every single one of those officers (70) thereafter had to go see a shrink because he was so “upset” and “frustrated,” Cheorge WAS IN FACT CHARGED and nothing changes that until or unless he is acquitted or the charges are dismissed. And what do you think the chances of that are? Pretty darn close to zero.

      The question now is this: We know how busted George is. HOW BUSTED is the SPD? That we don’t know yet.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      “the new racism is the denial that racism exists.”

      Boy oh boy, does this case ever bring that line into clear focus.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Whatever the defense does, the police will not harm the prosecutions case, after all they want to remain on the force and stay long enough to retire. MOM knows that if it comes down to a matter between the SP’s case and the officers own credibility, the police will “fall on their swords”, knowing they will be caught before they hit the pavement. MOM can’t offer any thing like that, so he’d be a fool to even get started in that direction.

      NO, instead, like the “SYG” feint, he’ll continue to fake to the left then fake to the right and finally, at the finish line, he’ll display the ol’ empty hand defense, where he spews a lot of confusing garbage in front of the jury, waving his hands in the air and pounding his fists in fury, while speaking meaningless drivel. It will make a shocking show and distract from the fact he has nothing. People may even fear that his oratory may actually convince some jurors, but it won’t because it won’t have a coherent point. Just sound and fury signifying nothing.

      As I’ve said before, GZ’s many versions and the evidence have left him totally disarmed. He cannot find a direction that he can move in without taking an overwhelming challenge. Nothing he does or can think up, can possibly work for him. Not the police failures, not attacking TM. MOM can only talk, as long as he stays far away from the case materials.

      • Malisha says:

        Lonnie S, I love the way you think.

        But be careful not to be accused of plagiarism: I think that description, “waving his hands in the air and pounding his fists in fury” was in one of Cheorge’s descriptions of what Big Mean Trayvon Martin did to him that night! 😛

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Hahaha… LOL!!! On Candid Camera they did a show with this guy who was adept at stringing syllables together to make meaningless words, which he would insert into otherwise understandable paragraphs. People on camera would pretend to understand these words, even though you could see they were totally confused.

          So, I could see MOM standing before the jury gesticulating wildly to emphasize unintelligible points he was making, while the jury sat there in total confusion, yet not wanting to give any clue that they didn’t understand what was being said. MOM could wheel around, this way and that, saying things like “Undernousiously Zimmerman could not fail to have noticed that, what Martin was doing was wrong at that point in time!” Stabbing a finger in the air to dramatize the point. If he could keep that up for several minutes, voice rising to qiver with emotion, then falling as if imparting some delicious secret. He could do a very confusing summation that might even look good to some. You know the old addage: “Can’t dazzle ’em with brilliance?”


      • cielo62 says:

        The MOM Defense: If you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, then baffle them with bullsh*t!


  50. CherokeeNative says:

    Thank you Professor for your article – it confirms what I have been saying all along that what was going on so far as corruption in SPD to see GZ walk free has nothing to do with and is irrelevent to the prosecution of the State v. Zimmerman case and is in actuality a separate case that needs to be investigated. You agree that it would not be to the defense’s benefit (or the prosecution’s) to address police misconduct in the case – it still does not address the direction that this is exactly where the defense appears to be taking the GZ case if we are to consider what was said at the last hearing. I suspect that it is the defense’s theory to muddy the waters with police misconduct just short of disclosing that it was in favor of GZ, for purposes of planting a seed of distrust towards LE and the handling of the evidence to the point that the jury will not trust the evidence and forensics. If this is so, how might the prosecution dispell this theory or prevent it from coming into the trial at all? TIA Professor.

    • The prosecution can file a motion in limine for an order prohibiting the defense from referring to or introducing evidence regarding the opinions of the brass about Zimmerman’s innocence.

      Another option would be to use the rule of completeness to clear-up a misconception created by only introducing part of the story.

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        How do you think the prosecution should the issue of witness tampering? I can see de la Rionda having to respond to O’Mara’s challenge to Witness 18’s (school teacher’s) statement about the “heavier” person being on top.
        I was so upset when I listened to the audio of Serino’s interview when Witnesses 18 told him that the heavier man was on top. At that point as we all know, Serino interrupted her saying something like “but can’t be sure” and she parroted his “can’t be sure” back.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          That video might hurt Serino, but it isn’t going to do GZ any good at all. GZ is trying to sell a bunch of stories, because someone bamboozled him into thinking that, as long as he hit on these point and kept to them, he had nothing to fear.

          He seems to think that each time he’s asked what happened, the slate gets wiped clean and he has a chance to start over again with a new and improved tale. He apparently thinks that when he tells the right one, the gates will spring open and he’ll be free.

          All MOM can do to keep him silent is hold out hope that a SYG hearing will be the end of the matter. George will probably go to trial, still asking MOM when is the SYG hearing going to begin?

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        I meant to write, “How do you think the prosecution should HANDLE the issue…..”

      • You all have thoughtful comments says:

        By the way, you can call me “yahtc”. That’s what my friends on Newsvine call me.

      • CherokeeNative says:

        Thank you Professor. The “rule of completeness” I had not heard of – that works for me. 🙂

  51. Malisha says:

    According to Angela Washington from the DOJ, there is an ongoing investigation into the conduct of the SPD in their handling of the case, and they have apparently called for anyone who has OTHER information about the SPD to bring it to their attention in this regard. That is why I began to research the reports of high crime in the RTL community, as initially reported by the press in March 2012. It turns out the reports were inaccurate and evidently the SPD gave the press information about more crime than there had been in that area. Tsk Tsk. But more about that when I have actually had a chance to analyze the information I have received and of course I am sending it to the Miami Herald, who should be interested in it as well.

    I always say that “the cover-up is worse than the crime,” and the reason I say that is this: Cover-ups encourage more crime.

    • gbrbsb says:

      @Malisha: “I always say that “the cover-up is worse than the crime,” and the reason I say that is this: Cover-ups encourage more crime”

      Or in Einstein´s words: “The World will not be destroyed by those that do evil; but by those who watch them without doing anything.”

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Very interesting.

    • Jun says:

      I spoke to the head dude of DOJ and he emailed me back stating the same, when the case first hit the media storm

    • ladystclaire says:

      How shameful it is that those who are sworn to serve and protect the public from crime, actually turn to acts of crime themselves. that is exactly what some members of the SPD did when they chose to help George Zimmerman get away with the murder of Trayvon Martin. each and everyone of them should face charges for obstruction of justice and, the same fate should be fall Norm Wolfinger as well as Robert Zimmerman Sr. this was an out right murder and yet these morons decided to let Zimmerman just walk away on his word of self defense without doing an investigation. a lot of heads need to roll for this and, no slap on the wrist of these people should be all that is done to them for what they have put Trayvon and his family through.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        We are told, time and again, that once corruption gets started inside a government agency, the need to cover it up exceeds the will to excise it. It festers and grows to ensnare more and more people as time goes on, as they are so dependent upon each other, fewer and fewer people have any choice but to go along.

        It’s always “the code” that creates “the blue wall of silence” and such, that allows the bad actor to get away with it. Once that happens, the witnesses are tainted by proxy and forced to the next level. Which is why police departments everywhere should be subjected to Justice Department audits, to make sure that things are in order, because what good are Constitutional rights if there is no way to enforce them? If they can be so easily undercut by conspiracies of silence and lies? With officials “pulling together” simply to save their own hides.

        Most of these police departments don’t even have operations manuals, and many that do, don’t require police to know what’s in them. Things like that have got to be changed! The legal profession, which lives by the law, should be the vanguard on that!

    • FactsFirst says:

      No matter how it happened, I’m just glad it did because I trully believe that if Serino hadn’t wrote that capias request, Cheorge would have probably gotten away with murder… And I still believe that Serino was following orders and misinformation from his bosses and they were setting him up to take the fall because he was the lead detective that night… I believe Chief Lee and Wolfinger has dirt on Serino and he prolly had no other choice but to go with the flow.. I just believe he was playing two ends against the middle, by setting Zimmerman up to get caught and setting the up BIG BOSS by doing as he was told so they (Lee/Wolfinger/Zimmerman’s dad) would not catch on to him sabotaging Cheorge self defence claim on the down low.. Either way, he was wrong… I think Serino knows it and prolly regrets ever being apart of it… I have a feeling about Serino… I believe he’s going to throw the entire SPD under the bus to save himself.. I agree with the Professor, what Serino and the SPD did to Trayvon’s murder investigation was wrong, however, I believe Serino’s back was against the wall.. But, I could be wrong… I just hope Serino was smart enough to get PROOF so when (not if) he goes down, he take damn near the ‘ENTIRE SPD’ with him… just my thoughts…

  52. cielo62 says:

    >^..^< happy post Thanksgiving! I believe once the GZ dust has settled, SPD is next. It'll be just the tip of the corruption iceberg. But better started than ignored. The sooner the better.

  53. Two sides to a story says:

    Professor – apparently a federal investigation is ongoing. Do you think they’ll hit SPD hard, or simply do a cursory examination and slap their wrist?

  54. Brown says:

    I agree that even though SPD, and Serino may not have conducted themselves improperly, it should not negate the evidence to date to be used to convict GZ. The trial is for for 2nd degree murder, not for the racism, and or any other improper behavior of the SPD. That can be address by other state or federal branches.

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