Lawyers for prosecution, defense and various news media organizations will be in court this afternoon before Seminole County Circuit Court Judge Debra Nelson to argue about various discovery related issues in the Zimmerman case. This should be interesting, so you may want to pay attention.
The always reliable and accurate Frances Robles of the Miami Herald has the breakdown:
Assistant State Attorney Bernie de la Rionda filed papers Thursday in Seminole County Circuit Court asking a judge to muzzle defense attorney Mark O’Mara, whom the prosecutor accuses of taking to the Internet to try his case in the media.
“Unless defense counsel stops talking to the media about the case, in person or by use of defendant’s website, it will (be) more difficult to find jurors who have not been influenced by the media accounts of the case,” de la Rionda said. ” … An impartial jury could never be seated.”
De la Rionda asked Circuit Judge Debra Nelson to issue a gag order, which would silence the defense, prosecutors, law enforcement and any of the lawyers’ employees. If the judge agrees, lawyers and investigators would not be allowed to make any statements outside the courtroom about the case, evidence, credibility of witnesses or possible sentences. If the judge allows it, they would even be kept from opining about Zimmerman’s guilt or innocence.
I am not surprised by the State’s motion. The defense has been trying its case in the Court of Public Opinion for months now and the prosecution has at long last run out of patience.
Of course, the prosecution has benefited more than the defense from this strategy. After all, who can forget George Zimmerman’s appearance on the Sean Hannity Show. His smirks, denial of regret, and shifting of responsibility for Trayvon Martin’s death onto God Almighty Himself has to be one of the greatest moments in network television history for this still young second decade.
Although there may still be more gold to be mined in the proverbial “them thar hills,” I think the prosecution comprehends the notion of diminishing returns and wants to cash-in its winnings and move on to other pleasantries of a somewhat more formal nature.
The defense and media lawyers will be objecting to the motion and I do not expect Judge Nelson will seriously consider granting it. Florida’s Sunshine Law is an impressive barrier to a gag order. I predict she will deliver a sternly worded rebuke to defense counsel and we shall see what we shall see.
Judge Nelson also will be hearing argument concerning the defense request to subpoena Trayvon Martin’s middle school and high school records. The State objects to the request on the grounds that the information in the records, whether good or bad, is protected from disclosure by privacy statutes and it would be irrelevant and inadmissible at trial. Prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda called it a “fishing expedition.”
As I have said before, I believe the rules of evidence permit the defense to introduce evidence of a pertinent character trait in support of Zimmerman’s claim that Martin was the aggressor. For example, if Trayvon Martin was known to be an aggressive bully who started fights, the defense would be permitted to bring that out at trial. Specific acts of misconduct would not be admissible, however. The defense would be limited to introducing the evidence as a character trait. Assuming such evidence exists, which I doubt, it might be in the school records. Therefore, I believe the defense has a legitimate reason to want to review the records.
The problem is that the defense may post Martin’s records on its website, regardless whether they contain any reference to misconduct of any kind, whether admissible or not. The State already did that with George Zimmerman’s school records and has apologized for doing so, claiming it was a clerical mistake. Now it seeks to prevent the defense from administering a dose of what’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
There is a solution to this sort of problem and I have previously recommended it. It’s called in camera review. No, it does not involve a camera. In camera review is a legal term that means in chambers. That is, the school records would be filed under seal and Judge Nelson would review them in her chambers and decide whether they contain evidence the defense has a right to review. She discloses it to both sides, if they do. Presumably, she also would order both sides not to publicize the records and might even threaten to hold them in contempt of court, if they were to violate the order.
As I said, I doubt the records contain the information that the defense has a legitimate reason to seek, so this dispute will likely be more like a proverbial tempest in a teapot. If there is any substance to it, there is a solution to deal with the records and protect privacy that has worked in the past.
The State also wants Judge Nelson to order the defense to file its requests for subpoenas in the future under seal so that it cannot publicize them on its website before submitting them for the court’s approval. This argument is part of the prosecution’s strategy to stop the defense from trying its case in the Court of Public Opinion.
This is another issue that Judge Nelson can handle with a stern warning and threat to use her contempt powers. I predict she will do so rather than establishing a special rule for O’Mara, as opposed to all other defense counsel, when seeking court approval for subpoenas.
The prosecution also is seeking George Zimmerman’s medical records at the clinic where he sought a permission-to-return-to-work authorization the day after the shooting. The defense objects on privacy grounds. I think the defense likely waived doctor-patient privilege and privacy concerns when it released a portion of his records and has intimated that his ADHD condition might explain some of his inconsistencies.
Finally, there is an interesting issue about the discoverability of Trayvon Martin’s social media accounts (Facebook and Twitter). A lawyer representing Facebook has refused to comply with the subpoena.
Once again, here’s Frances Robles,
On Monday, Facebook lawyers sent a letter to O’Mara vowing to fight the subpoena. Martin’s social-media account, Facebook attorney Furqan Mohammed said, is not only irrelevant to the case, but by law cannot be released. Mohammed said federal law protects the account information, and added that arguing the issue would have to be done in a California court.
“We think the attorneys for Facebook are essentially saying the same thing we have been saying all along: Trayvon’s Facebook and social media are completely irrelevant,” said Benjamin Crump, an attorney for Martin’s family. “All of these issues are distractions that take the focus off George Zimmerman.”
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Frederick Leatherman Law Blog 
I give Tracy and Sabrina my awe and determination to stand with them in their quest for Justice. It is truly amazing how they are turning a negative into a positive.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marian-wright-edelman/we-have-decided-to-turn-t_b_2025626.html
If MOM was so worried about how everyone made his client look (crump/jackson), or anyone else why in the world would he allow his client to be interviewed? He should step forward and take responsibility for the Hannity fiasco! BDLR didn’t mind thanking GZ or MOM for such a kind offering.
I will tell you what makes GZ look bad…..those black pits he calls eyes. Not one drop of sympathy/empathy/remorse does he show. He wouldn’t change one thing about that night! He deserves the title of the most hated man in America for a reason.
Could someone fill me in on the comments about GZ’S facebook, I am a little lost on this one. Did he make comments about the shooting after it happened?
I can say he had a comment to the effect “…how about datniggytb the day after he murdered Trayvon. There is more, but that was the most offensive. “tb” is Trayvon Benjamin.
His brother tried to explain it away with “niggy” being what Z was called for years (riiiight) and “tb” was Tug Boat because of his girth….again riiight. However, this was the 1st time this was ever seen.
Another interpretation is that “tb” is “took a bullet” and “niggy” is a young Black. IOWs, GZ said that a young “n” took a bullet.
With all due respect, I doubt that. If so, the Zidiot Nation and would have stated that or some other garbage. The odds of tb are ?????
The Zidiot nation would not because they are trying to protect GZ from saying anything racist. My suggestion comes from years of having judges send young people to the Legal Self-Help Center to amend their pleadings because they used “text-message speak” in them. I’ve seen “tb” used for “took a bullet,” “too bad,” “text back” and “thanks babe.” It depends on context.
I’ll buy that since I’ve never heard that before and can’t argue logic.
But I would find it hard to believe Z used took a bullet. The context was more personal, at least to me. But, I’ve been wrong before.
No matter what…….he was bragging about it less than 16 hours later.
The handle was bragging. It essentially said “That young ni**er took a bullet.” It’s common gang talk for teaching someone a lesson for “disrespecting” you. GZ is gangster all the way — evidenced by his tattoo. I would love for the State to get his juvenile records from Virginia.
“I would love for the State to get his juvenile records from Virginia.”
Ask and you shall receive sayeth the Lord. It may not be this week, nor next month, but…….this is farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr from over.
The state is going the Trayvon Benjamin route however, that I do know. What will they counter with “Tug Boat,” even though this was the 1st reference ? or “took a bullet” It matters not as RZ jr stated it is tug boat…….once again, they fouled up with a commitment to a story. Like he was always the size of a 450 ton motor vessel !
Just sayin…!
Yea, sure, just like Osterman and his claim that GZ HAD numerous Black friends. I think the operating word was “had.” Thus, if the operating word was “had,” why would GZ resort to the past and use a nickname given to him by friends who were no longer friends? Also, why would junior, in all his superior glory, allow his baby brother to resort to using whigger on social media?
Yep. The Zidiots go on the “We want to see ….(insert evidence name here) rantings.
I make mention of the mentored kids & the fact that not one has come forward, not one is named and not one parent has stated it was my kid he mentored. When I ask about that….the silence is deafening from the Zidiot Patrol.
Osterman stated Z had enough black friends they could have started their own march. Why didn’t one come forward….not one single “friend” has even surfaced.
racerrodig says: “Osterman stated Z had enough black friends they could have started their own march. Why didn’t one come forward….not one single “friend” has even surfaced.”
Well there is the black guy who acts white, Joe Oliver, which is what Z’s molested cousin said was the only type of black person acceptable to the Zimmerman family.
That’s Joe “rent a friend” Oliver. He has since disappeared.
He doesn’t count. According to the Zidiot family, he is acting white enough.
Well racerrodig, I have my own theory about the mentoring. The Zidiots criticize it, but it’s a bit too tight and they are frightened by it. The theory does not have to go so far and apply to the night of 2/26/12, but it is my strong expression that GZ used NW as a cover-up for crime, and his “mentoring” was actually gang recruitment.
YES !! Recruitment….we talked about this a week or so ago. Yep, dare I mention what I was called when a few of us discussed this on HP. The same reaction, in fact I think you were part of it, if I’m not mistaken. Your theory is dead on.
Osterman said he advised GZ to always carry, the main reason being to keep the gun out of the reach of children. GZ and ShelLIE don’t have children. Could he have been talking about “recruits”?
I haven’t commented on HP since April, but can imagine the responses you received. For GZ, it just all lines up, at least as I see it. The posts on his MySpace page demonstrate that GZ is gangland gangster.
Xena says: …….the posts on his MySpace page demonstrate that GZ is gangland gangster.
Are GZ’s posts on MySpace admitted into evidence or are they too old or not relevant? If Trayvon’s social media has something that is admitted, can GZ’s social media statements be admitted, no matter the age?
All I know is that MOM verified the MySpace pages.
The Professor addressed this on another post. If the defense opens a can of worms about GZ’s character, the State then has opportunity to present evidence that disputes the defense’s position. MOM would only be able to use Trayvon’s records if they demonstrate a propensity for violence, and then he needs a witness to what was documented.
IMO, MOM will never get Trayvon’s social media. FB and Twitter operate under federal statute. They also have to consider what will happen with users if they willfully submit comments posted to social media by minors. That places every parent in America on notice that their child can be killed, the killer can claim self-defense, and the child’s social media can be examined by grown-ass men who want to blame them for their own death.
Xena the only reason I asked is there appear to be time limits on Trayvon’s social media entries and GZ’s medical records set by Judge Nelson. (Correct me if I am wrong)
So if by chance the defense goes through the hurdles and finds something on Trayvon’s FB or social media that is current, can GZ’s 2005 MySpace entries/comments be introduced to counter.
My concern is the prosecution is not looking far enough into GZ’s past and will be limited – but again I am not a legal professional and don’t know the rules of the game. It just seemed to me when judge limited medical records and social media records it also limits a bigger picture of what was going on in GZ’s past that led him to kill Trayvon Martin.
MOM wanted GZ’s medical records to be limited to 30 days before and after 2/26/12. Judge Nelson said something along the lines of limiting Trayvon’s social media to the same time constraints. I am nor sure what was actually ordered, however.
JM, I’m sorry I cannot answer your question, neither actually ponder how it would work in the case. IMO, it’s putting the cart before the horse because it is highly unlikely that MOM will get any discovery from FB and Twitter.
The State already has GZ’s motive. “These assholes. They always get away.” “Funking coons/punks.” “Are you following him?” “Yeah.”
Xena I hope you are correct and all it will take to convict GZ is the NEN call, etc.
I guess I am paranoid that GZ will walk on a technicality that prosecution has not anticipated and my lack of faith in prosecutor BLDR’s presentation and presence.
It is my belief that the State had all necessary to prove 2nd degree murder when they charged GZ. This whole social media thing, if the State played that, would be tit for tat as used in a civil case. And of course, MOM practicing in family law would have tendency to litigate in that manner.
BLDR litigates according to the hearing or rather, the issues before the court. He is not going to allow MOM or West to ambush him to litigant an immunity hearing before MOM files a petition for one.
At the end of the day, it’s not the attorney who waves his hands the most, jumps up and down the most, or talks the longest who prevails, but rather, the one in which the court enters order granting their motion.
The bottom line is…the more they hate me, the more I know I have them cornered and what is uncovered is a threat. The fact that they are incapable of an actual conversation or debate without their complete dismissal of all evidence and every post seems to be from an idiot, filled with racist hate makes leaves me convinced I’m dealing with some racist redneck.
For S’s & Giggles I’ll read some of the hate on the Conservative Outhouse. Are they for real ?? Seriously ? These “People” actually live in the 21st Century !!
For sure. The whole NW thing as a cover-up has nothing to do with the case in chief. It questions GZ’s character, motivations, and potential to be a petty thief. It can easily tie into a possible addiction and why he was unable to pay his bills and needed to be a petty thief. I mean, $18,000 in July 2011 with a full-time job, and broke 7 mths later while still behind in bills!!!!!
The Zidiots don’t want to see the real George Zimmerman.
Well actually, they still live pre-Civil War and they are angry about losing that war, so they don’t live at all.
Yep, and they buy those “The South Shall Rise Again” license plates at the Piggly Wiggly to this day.
LOL! They rise again alright — after hurricanes and twisters come through. I say let them secede from the U.S. What would they do without SSI, and how many would actually qualify for a passport to enter the U.S.? š
Remember the movies “Escape from New York” & “Escape from L.A.”……..That give you any ideas ?
They can stand their ground 24/7 — like in this. š
404 Not Found ……can we try again ?? This I have to see !!
Sorry. Maybe it was the coding I added to prevent other vids from appearing after the featured one is played. Let’s try this.
He hehehehehehe !!
Yes but if that were the case, there would have been no need for GZ to claim that he learned TM’s name “late that night”, or for the police to change their records, later in the day, to make it appear that TM’s name was known at 3am that night. Thus it all ties in better with Trayvon Benjamin, than it does with anything else.
Correct me if I’m mistaken, but what GZ said is that he did not know that Trayvon had died until about an hour after he was taken to the police station. I don’t remember him saying that he learned Trayvon’s name late that night. The following day when he took the voice stress test, he referred to Trayvon as “the guy.”
Where did I miss GZ saying that he learned Trayvon’s name late that night?
I haven’t been vetting this discussion but here: https://frederickleatherman.wordpress.com/2012/10/19/zimmerman-lawyers-lawyers-everywhere-important-hearing-today-at-130-pm-edt/#comment-29651
Up thread is where I picked it up, and I vaguely remember we went over this before on the Bcclist.com. When the issue of “datniggytb” first came up, the immediate question was how did GZ get TM’s name so early. The first explanation that came at us was that GZ had learned it late that night. Which, of course could not be true, so someone pointed to the 3am note, which also could not be true, then RZ to the rescue with “tug boat”.
It will take some time to track down, unless someone has it.
@Lonnie Starr. The only time I remember GZ saying anything about Trayvon after he killed him, was on Hannity’s show where he stated that he did not know Trayvon was dead until about an hour after he was at the police station.
I’m thinking that maybe the police amended a 3 a.m. 2/27/12 report adding Trayvon’s name in later.
Junior’s “tugboat” doesn’t cut it with me, and unless it is proven otherwise, I’m sticking with the text message and gang slang about “Datniggytb.” It also fits well with the Zimmerman’s condescending personalities.
I can’t remember exactly what interview, but Z did say he did not know Trayvon was dead until about an hour after he was at the police station. Remember in one interview he said he didn’t even think he hit Trayvon and in others he said he needed help because Trayvon was still a threat.
Too bad the evidence dumps aren’t searchable. I tried an optical character reader but alas no good. So all I have is memory that others have said that this addition to the record was made.
Now I see that racerrodig says it was on FB and you say it was a text. Which was the one that was posted on 2/27/12 ?
Sorry if I wasn’t clear. The “niggytb” is text message and gang lingo — not that GZ sent that in a text.
Right Racerrodig, and when that’s coupled with GZ saying that he learned TM’s full name late at night when he couldn’t have, and then the record appears to have been changed to support his false claim (3am 2/27 TM’s full name appears in the record), when it could not have been learned until some time after TM’s father woke up and called in a missing person report.
Now why would GZ lie about when he learned TM’s name so early, as a way to explain “tb = tug boat”? Obviously he wouldn’t. Only if he could feel guilty, because “tb” meant Trayvon Benjamin, would he feel compelled to lie about when he was able to learn TM’s full name.
I would imagine this is on film? Then it’s fixed and “tug boat” doesn’t explain it. “tb” only makes sense in this context if it is in fact a name, TM’s name to boot. Otherwise it requires no record altering support.
My guess is police don’t alter records without any good reason for doing so.
And your guess would be correct.
Will SPD have to explain how they found Trayvon’s name at 3 a.m. or why they changed the record in court? Who exactly told GZ the victim’s name and when?
At the present, the police are not on trial. At Z’s trial, I’d say this will come up. I’d say, some scathing questions may arise, followed by some real entertaining answers.
Why and who let Z wash up. ??
Who allowed his truck to be moved without being looked at.
Who actually took the picture of the top of his head that night and where is the documentation.
Not sure if this is the right reply to, but here goes. Read an email this morning early before coffee kicked regarding plate number being private.
My information is this:
Plate # ATT068 came back to Zim.
Dispatch call number 53
Plate # 816KLA came back to Zim.
Dispatch call number 54
If I’m hearing correctly and (check me please, the vehicle 1998 Honda.. was towed. (call 53)
http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/audio/police-radio-dispatch/
They talked really fast, but on #54, it sounds like the officer wanted to check to see if the car was registered to a resident at RATL. It came back registered to a Zimmerman.
Unintelligible… go ahead with your plate….ATT 068 …..silence…..tow away station
hondaaaaaaa 19 cut AUDIO…..expires 9162012 ok thank you
Above is how I hear it. on call 53….
Hmmmm. Don’t know what to make of it. ShelLIE had her car the day of the re-enactment. GZ did rent a car that he used to drive into Jacksonville. I wonder where his car is now?
Let’s say for argument sake that LEO did towed the truck. They would have to run the tag number to make sure that it did indeed belong to GZ. It was in the area. He told NEN where his car was parked. LEO hand him handcuffed, probably asked him were you walking or driving he points to the vehicle or tells them my truck is parked over there, and guess what Shellie car is there also. He had a neighbor call his wife. Was she there before shot fired? How fast did she get to the crime scene? How about Osterman? The only audio I found that the state handed over to the defense has two tag numbers. Both belonging to the Zimmermans.
Many some will understand me now that, the those clubhouse videos 7-11 video , has some of all those people captured on those videos. Or maybe I JUST BE CRAZY : ^ )
Trust me….You’re not crazy !!
: ^ )
BlushedBrown
Crazy? If you’re crazy, count me among those who are crazy. I believe that ShelLIE was in the truck with GZ. He was very concerned that his wife knew that he shot someone. That is when I believe that ShelLIE called Osterman, who was parked at the clubhouse or had just taken off from there after hearing the gunshot. ShelLIE probably did not have her keys to GZ’s truck, so Osterman picked her up, took her home to get her car, and they returned to the scene where she partked her car, and then took off with Osterman for the police station.
Listen forward from :50
at :55 GZ says he kept staring at me, and staring looking around to see who else was…I don’t know why..
It’s the “who else” that gets me. Consider this, if Shellie Sondra or Mark had spotted TM @ the mailboxes, knowing that they were leery of young black men in the neighborhood. They get in the truck to see if GZ recognizes him. It is safe for me to assume that Shellie or Sondra got in the truck or were in the truck and showed TM to GZ. Something like this.You see George I told you there is a guy just standing there in the rain.
It make pefect sense to me that he would say something like that if someone was in the truck or he had a heads up on TM.
IMO, the “who else” was Mark Osterman.
But somehow I think it was the woman that alerted them and or Taffe. I think Osterman was with GZ in the truck.
i could not argue that but it could be Taaffe since Trayvon may have walked right by his windows. All 3 there…you betcha…!
Good points and there are many possibilities. I still think it was Taaffe in the truck with him.
Crazy? If you’re crazy, count me among those who are crazy.
You are counted!
How about this, what does Osterman drive? Everybody here in Texas drives trucks. Most are white. Maybe GZ copied his buddy and bought a similar truck.
The truck in his reenactment video is a Ford.
Listen forward from 3:20 .GZ: I parked in front of this sign over here. Officer. In front of the FORD truck. Zimmerman had a Honda Ridgeline.
In the beginning he says….”…my wife…….I had just left for the grocery store….” He has far to many Freudian Slips to me. Was SheLie in the truck. We assume it was Taaffe….I do know the phone records will be shocking.
For the record, he did own a Ridgeline.
YES!. Too many freudian slips. It is part of what I am working on. Taffe is not on my list. Maybe phone call. But definitely the Ostermans and Shellie. I’m working on a possible scenario. Need a couple of more items or pieces to show a complete puzzle. Then I can post what I have with as much evidence and data as possible.
Brown: “But definitely the Ostermans and Shellie.”
ShelLIE looks hard with her cold dead eyes and she was more than willing to hide Paypal money and perjure herself. Plus I bet it was her idea to put those huge butterfly bandages on GZ’s head to make it look like his minor abrasions were worse than they actually were. Nurse ShelLIE knew GZ’s head injuries did not match his claim of his head being smashed repeatedly against cement so she created a cover-up – even though the medical professionals who saw GZ did not think the wounds should be covered.
ShelLIE is in this deep.
Don’t know for sure where Osterman fits in but he plays a large part in influencing GZ as to what to say after the fact and as part of the good ol’ boy network of the police department (Billy Lee) I believe had some influence over decisions made by police.
In defense of most wives we tend to baby or mother our partners, but she takes the cake. Me personally, if it was my husband I would of cleaned him up but he would of never let me put on a damn band-aid let alone those huge things she put on his head.
ShelLIE does not know how to use scissors. She could have easily cut away the butterfly parts. Or maybe Mark doesn’t allow scissors in his house — just guns.
Wicked sense of humor, LOLOL
Xena says: “ShelLIE does not know how to use scissors. She could have easily cut away the butterfly parts…….”
If ShelLIE used scissors on the butterfly bandages to trim them to the size of the abrasions, you would see the how very small the superficial wounds were and not consistent with getting your head bashed over and over into cement.
The bandages were a cover-up in more ways than one. ShelLIE added these huge bandages for dramatic effect and to cover the small lacerations with the huge butterfly bandages on purpose.
ShelLIE is in deep with the killing of Trayvon Martin. Just look at her mug shot.
IMO, ShelLIE knew GZ’s motivation and inspirations because of his failures. She was willing to do whatever he needed of her because without GZ, she would be set out to pasture having nothing to attract a professional, secure man except the ability to apply butterfly band aids between the nose.
@Xena: Shellie would have never made it as a Nurse! She just failed “How to apply and wrap wounds 101!” LOL! You WRAP head injuries with gauze, not those stupid tired bandages that she used and the rest of his head would have been shaved to apply whatever the Dr. prescribed. She just drew more attention to G’s fat head by applying those bandages! G is such an idiot and so is she! No wonder they are together. To stupids!
LOL@Deborah Garner-Moore. Nurse!! Not only could she not become a nurse, her band aid application doesn’t qualify to be a good mother either.
The physician’s assistant said to keep clean with soap and water. Seeing that the physician’s assistant didn’t bandage GZ’s big head, it didn’t need bandaging. ShelLIE’s application of those bandages logical conveys that she even knew those little boo-boos weren’t enough to claim self-defense.
Xena says: “She was willing to do whatever he needed of her because without GZ, she would be set out to pasture having nothing to attract a professional, secure man except the ability to apply butterfly band aids between the nose.”
I believe misfits attract misfits. That is how GZ and ShelLIE got together. I do believe ShelLIE is as devious as GZ. The Nurse ShelLIE huge bandages were meant as a camouflage to deceive how very small the wounds were that would not be consistent with GZ’s story of getting his head bashed into concrete repeatedly. I don’t know if it was her idea to apply the bandages but she was complicit and knew exactly why the huge bandages covering the small wounds were applied. I think ShelLIE is as cold-blooded as GZ and IMO her actions are driven by greed and also poor self-esteem. Put out to pasture is a good analogy for what would happen to her if she did not go along with the GZ plan. I don’t mean to make fun of her appearance just to be mean, but rather how it could leads to poor self-esteem. I don’t know what drives ShelLIE but I do know she looks mean in her own right.
I totally agree.
I understand. Back in the day, it was said if a person didn’t have good looks, then they should have something in their head or in the bank if they wanted to marry. Personally, I add something good in their heart as a priority.
It was funny — while GZ was sitting in jail waiting for his first bond hearing, and ShelLIE was transferring money around, she spent some of it making purchases off ITunes.
i hear ya. I tell my wife when I get injured and the like “..Ya can’t hurt steel” She tries to baby me and I want no part of it. The day after the Super Bowl in an engine stand in my shop broke an an engine block fell on my right foot, crushed 3 toes, I had them stitched in the ER and was working the next day….did it hurt…..
you betcha…… I’d say SheLie babies him and he sucks up every single Ohhhh and does it hurt…..that bad mosquito….
For trying to be oh so tough on myspace and FB, not to mention when he confronted every other person he bullied, he sounds like a fruitcake to me. That weaselly voice…….
I tell my wife when I get injured and the like “..Ya can’t hurt steel”
My husband says, Im a cyborg…He cracks me up with that. If he gets hurt he keeps going and going and going….LOL
tell him I said that the posture you show here would be proof that you are far from a cyborg !!
I will pass along the message HA!
They all have bits and pieces of the puzzle. GZ gave a piece to almost everybody. We just have to put it together, and we are doing it very very nicely. ; ^ )
I’ll be looking for it.
Didn’t he pay them both off with Peter Pan donations ??
Yes.
I posted this scenario about his Zidiot Donators before….
I’d say that this excerpt of a conversation has been heard verbatim, in part or some version……”…..Billy Bob……what is this Foreclosure Notice for………why are the credit cards all late and why the the hell is that guy towing my SUV away………”
So donate away Zid’s
Well GZ didn’t speak to many officers, but I don’t believe he said which one. GZ never gives any supportive information to bolster any of the claims he makes.
Lonnie says: “Well GZ didn’t speak to many officers, but I don’t believe he said which one. GZ never gives any supportive information to bolster any of the claims he makes.”
So is this a non-issue that will never come up again? BTW, who did GZ say this to? Sorry Lonnie but it is very hard to keep up with GZ’s lies, half-truths, delusions and claims.
Well I didn’t hear it in the tapes I listened to, of course I haven’t listen to more than two or three. It’s probably buried in the evidence dumps somewhere. I’ll see if I can track it down because now I’m getting curious. Will post what I find.
The story surrounding the facebook page creates really serious problems.
GZ posted on facebook on 2/27 “Datniggytb” at around 12 noon.
Some say that “tb” is Trayvon Benjamin. While others are saying it’s something else. The problem with it being anything other than Trayvon Benjamin, is that GZ says, in response to questions about Trayvon’s name, that he learned of it “late that night”. Which should mean that he had plenty of time to make a facebook post.
Then we look back in the records to see when was the earliest time GZ could have learned Trayvon’s name, we see an entry at 3 am 2/27 that contains Martins full name.
Now we know from the rest of the records that TM was John Doe until late in the morning of 2/27 because his father only put in the missing persons call after he got up. Serino responded and later that morning an identification was made.
Meaning that the 3am record had been changed, why? Why was a name added to the 3am record, when it’s only effect would have been to back up GZ’s claim of having learned TM’s name earlier than was actually possible? By the very same officer who went around the crime scene telling the eye witnesses what they saw and heard???
The state would be correct to treat the “tb” as Trayvon Benjamin, otherwise why else would GZ need to claim to have learned TM’s name late in the night? Then why would the records need to be altered, if not to back him up? These two artifact would not have appeared if “tb” meant “took a bullet” or “tug boat”. Obviously GZ was caught by surprise that his facebook posting had been discovered, the only answer he could think up at the moment to cover him blunder was “I learned what his name was late that night”. When someone trying to keep a lid on, learned of this statement, they rushed to amend the record for 3am that night to show that indeed TM’s full name was available by 3am. A ploy that would have worked if the case hadn’t gone global. Now, because the case has gone global, we have six different views of every follicle involved.
So now we have the facebook “datniggytb” artifact.
The LEO telling eye witnesses what they saw artifact.
The LEO telling eye witnesses what they heard artifact.
The LEO altering records artifact.
The GZ spots TM by FT’s artifact.
The GZ parked at the clubhouse artifact.
The GZ “he circled my car” artifact.
The GZ, “Yes I’m following” artifact.
The GZ “I was going in the same direction” artifact.
The GZ “He’s running”, artifact.
The GZ “He ran” artifact.
The GZ “I was returning to my truck” artifact.
The GZ “He came out of nowhere/bushes” artifact.
The GZ “He’s skipping” artifact.
Man o’ man, I could go on for pages with the artifacts this case contains.
All I can say is “Well Said”
It was “MySpace” not FaceBook and it wasn’t put up on 2/27/12 the page was only active from April 6 to April 11. ???
I don’t do much research because I can’t stand seeing that face again and again, and/or reading the lies, knowing it was part of the kill plan. I once thought it was put together after the fact, but I suspect the pieces were put in place beforehand. All that remained to accomplish was the act itself.
Tell me something racer!
I was under the impression his myspace page had not been used in quite some time, like a few years. I do know dat…tb was on FB.
Good, do you have the docs on that?
I found it on a basic Google search back about May.
I hit “Post” to soon. Let me say….as has been discussed….the burglaries started when Z came to town, and stopped when he was arrested. When you look at the “Bizarre” Factor and add in the “What are the chances of…” Factor and simmer over Osterman Slim and Taffee Filth……what could be the result.
The sum total and not individual parts. The problem is that the stakes here are high, unlike when kids egg each other on as to who will lean over the pond farther without falling in.
Never scoff at a conspiracy theory. Nobody would have dreamed a low life like Manson could be responsible for Tate / LaBianca. And Gary Hinman and a lawyer and others. Not many crimes like this are what they seem at first. Remember, Z (I still can’t bring myself to type his name) was “…squeaky clean…” How did Lee know this ?
In fact, he knew the opposite was true.
When Z started the NW he went door to door with a form and took notes about where everybody worked, when, what they wanted protected most, were they armed !! and quite a few other details about all 260 units…..In common parlance that is called “Casing the Joint” He just used the guise of being the Neighborhood WatchDog. That’s not a first. My son’s godfather who retired awhile ago from Federal Investigation work trains the Federal Air Marshals in Atlantic City. Guess who they have never heard of.
Does anyone think they would actually hire an idiot like Osterman. This is a job that demands anonymity and he’s all over the TV?
I saw that early on in this case, and there are dots that when connected, lead to a reasonable conclusion that GZ’s NW was a cover-up for a crime ring. We don’t know what GZ did in Virginia as a juvenile, but he has a gang tattoo, and his parents shipped him out to Florida before they arrived.
While residing at Osterman’s, GZ borrowed money from his parents and spent $135.00 at the U.S. Post Office. That’s federal jurisdiction and they can examine what GZ spent that money on. Maybe to ship stolen jewelry that he sold on ebay?????
Around June-July 2011, the HOA published in their newsletter that they were paying SPD to conduct patrols in that gated community for traffic and HOA violations.
Also in July 2011, GZ came into $18,000 via a civil case. He did not inform his attorney that he received the money.
In August 2011 was when a neighbor reported being home when someone walked into her house. It turned out that she was familiar with the person. That same month, GZ began knocking on doors with a clipboard asking residents if they were interested in organizing a neighborhood watch.
Sept. 2011. The HOA president resigned and was replaced. The new incoming president did not know what GZ was doing until he received calls from residents asking about the man coming to their house with a clipboard.
The first NW meeting with the police community officer was held in Sept. 2011.
While GZ would have us believe that he was concerned about break-ins, this is what he actually called NEN about after organizing NW.
1. 9/23/11 – open garage door. Car inside.
2. 10/1/11 – Loitering at the front gate.
3. 12/10/11 – Man serving at his graduation party expected to be paid.
4. 1/9/12 – kids playing in the street
5. 2/2/12 – Suspicious guy who he sees going through garbage cans on garbage day, standing outside of Taaffe’s house.
While he was making these calls, he emailed Dovial about suspects and arrests for break-in’s, asking about open cases. The police reports provide that the majority of property stolen from residences consisted of jewelry.
Xena says: “Iām trying to be nice and not laugh at GZ fat jokes ”
Seriously I think the fact that GZ gained so much weight in a relatively short period of time is more about signs of lack of self -control than just making a joke about a fat GZ, especially since the goal is to make him look like a victim who was afraid of this kid who allegedly attacked him so he needed to shoot and kill him. Imagine this fat boy image of GZ when it is explained to the jury he not only shot him at close range but “mounted” the victim after the shooting further suffocating him with his fat azz on his back. .
I think his weight, demeanor, blinking eyes, pallor, bad complexion and dark circles under his eyes are a tell of something deeper going on with GZ. It will be interesting to see ShelLIE in December hearing – or can she dodge another bullet and get a continuance?
JM, I don’t disagree with you, but in actuality, the October 2012 George Zimmerman looks like his 2005 mug shot.
Xena I think GZ looks 100% worse than the 2005 mug shot, not just because of weight issue (which seems worse) but in general and unfortunately this makes me happy to see him look so bad. GZ looks like he is being haunted by his crime and his lies about the crime.
It’s got to be wearing on him to know that there are no more talk shows and donations are slowing down, so much so that MOM won’t buy him a suit and his diet has devolved to salty sugar coated lard, as in twinkies and such. He has to realize it isn’t going to get any better, and the people around him are probably showing signs of stress and depression. His family has to be taking it on the chin, hotels aren’t cheap these days, and there’s no hope of extra income. Their notoriety has shut them away from all but the most rabid racists and hate freaks, whose company they can’t really appreciate. They’re stuck in a world populated by low brows.
Only MOM has any spring in his step, because he’s not caught up in their world, but he does have to try to find a way to make it pay.
But at least he can find intelligent company in the Barristers watering hole. He’s the Zimmerman’s only connection to the outside world about now.
Along with pizza delivery. š
You know, I wonder if he and ShelLIE are still together? The cameras did not focus on those sitting behind him Friday. Junior was there, but I did not see ShelLIE — not saying she wasn’t, but is she was, the cameras ignored her.
Of course, his family has to be very “disappointed” with him and have tried transferring blame on the State, attorneys Crump and Jackson, and even the media. At the end of the day, it’s still GZ’s fault. He followed Trayvon. He pulled the trigger. He abandoned his job and home when he left the police station. He left his family vulnerable.
Xena: “The cameras did not focus on those sitting behind him Friday. Junior was there, but I did not see ShelLIE …………Of course, his family has to be very ādisappointedā with him……..”
Isn’t ShelLIE in hiding afraid for her life? If she were there it seems like some camera would have caught her walking in or out of the courtroom with GZ. Then again as the story unfolds and the evidence comes out, maybe ShelLIE is ticked off at GZ for setting her up for perjury charges. I can’t wait to see the physical state she is in coming up on December 12 ..
I didn’t see Junior but maybe the media outlet I watched wasn’t focused on him either. Mostly the camera focused on GZ during down time when no one else was speaking.
Zimmerman family should be disappointed in themselves for backing his lies and by doing so enabling and encouraging GZ. They are all getting exactly what they deserve. Karma can be a beitch and sooner or later catches up with you.
Don’t expect to see much of the family out and about, as the number of people who they can speak to shrinks paranoia sets in.
Even on line, as they ‘talk’ more, the number of people listening keeps shrinking. Now they have no money left for media experts, so they’ll just have to live in the downwards spiral they’ve created.
” Now they have no money left for media experts, so they’ll just have to live in the downwards spiral they’ve created.
……………..and we’re damn glad of it !!
It’s got to be wearing them down to realize that the more they talk the fewer people there are who will listen. Soon they will realize that all people’s interests them is because they are curiosities. There to be looked at like animals in a zoo.
Most people rely on an ability to reason right from wrong, to get through life. These people have apparently found another concept to live by, that only comes close to what humans are capable of, but is still pretty much closer to what animals think. So people are staring like we’ve discovered three armed apes.
Oh well, I’m sure they were told that they really, really, really should have kept their mouths shut. They didn’t listen and now look at what they’ve done, they’ve made a terrible mess of their entire public image. Of course it’s no mystery to me, once you realize there’s a reason we have professionals, carpenters, tailors, roofers, computer experts on and on. You realize that when it comes to things that matter most, you need to call in experts. Any fool can convince him/her self that they can do it all by themselves. And any fool will have to live with the mess they’ve made.
So fitting.
You mean, GZ was suppose to question Osterman’s advice and consult a REAL lawyer? š
I remember the days when reporters stuck a microphone in front of an accused face and asked if they had anything to say, and the response was always, “I didn’t do it.” Then they would push their way through.
I meant the family, they surely knew that what they would say, would have an impact on GZ’s public appearance. They should have contacted a public relations professional. Instead they thought they could do it all themselves on the cheap. They got the cheapest results. If they couldn’t afford, or didn’t want to pay for professional help, they should have remained quiet.
The way things have gone so badly is their own doing. Thrashing about like bulls in a china shop, was hardly likely to produce desirable results. But the results they obtained are pretty permanent and will probably drive them crazy in the long run. The life they used to live is over, they’ll never be able to live it again.
No more friendly trips to the courthouse or the police station for PaPa Z. If they’re smart, they should probably seek professional mental heath assistance real soon. Or, I’m afraid we’re going to be treated to some really odd behavior before June.
Lonnie says: “They should have contacted a public relations professional. Instead they thought they could do it all themselves on the cheap. They got the cheapest results. If they couldn’t afford, or didn’t want to pay for professional help, they should have remained quiet.”
That shows more of the arrogance of the Zimmerman family that they thought they could do everything better and did not need advice.
I don’t think RZ Jr can remain silent because he thinks he has all the answers and is quite full of himself. The question is whether RZ Jr is delusional, stupid or simply a liar like GZ.
Is there a chance that he may be a stupid delusional liar?
A media pro, might have had a very hard time with this matter, and there would probably be little hope of widespread success, but at least he would have preserved the possibility that things might improve. RZ has cut off any hope that things can improve.
Oh well, it could not have happened to a nastier bunch. They’re sticking by GZ for all the wrong reasons. That’s a bell that can’t be unrung.
I have been saying since April that Jr. is as bright as a 2 watt bulb. His 1st interview produced the “Octopus Defense” That is, he was holding both of his hands (plural) over my brother’s mouth and his other hand over his nose trying to suffocate him. Then with his other hands, (again plural) was bashing is head on the concrete. His brother now has 5 hands. Then he tried to grab for my brothers gun with his other hand, making 6 hands.
Since this is all a fantasy, and none of those hands actually exist, we can add Trayvon’s real hands to the count and Presto !!
“The Octopus Defense” as provided by RZ jr.
That makes room for the “My Brother is an Idiot Defense” to be used later.
“I have been saying since April that Jr. is as bright as a 2 watt bulb.”
It is pretty obvious to most that Jr is dimwitted/liar/delusional BUT unfortunately he does not realize it. Junior thought he could BS his way through GZ’s story because of how he looks and speaks.
My theory is Junior is full of himself and took the opportunity to go on media tour hoping to get a job in show biz while also trying to clear his brother because of Zimmerman family arrogance and pride who could/would not admit they have a black sheep killer in the family whose name is George.
The only job he would ever get is on the RRR program….The Racist Reality Radio Program.
The first thing Junior would have learned if he’d hired a pr expert, is that to work in the media you have to exhibit great self control, that and you have to be able to take direction very well. Without those two skills the media would have little interest and no use for him. Since his “defense” of his brother, exhibited a distinct lack of awareness as well, he made certain that the media would want to have nothing at all to do with him, unless he could attract and hold a large audience, which he failed to do.
So, the more he talked the less interested in him people became. Now he’s got 200 or less people on his social media site, I’ve had 13k people visit my blog in just a few months. Clearly he doesn’t know what he’s doing and that’s got to be very bad. He just ignores it and keeps on, not worried in the least that he may be actually alienating people. Egad!
You have that nailed. In any situation where you are in the public eye it is literally a performance. I do Consumer Fraud reports and testify in court. Literally, every one is a live performance. What I say, the voice inflections, the dramatic delay, the tone, the crescendo, and most important…….drum roll please…..The Knowledge of the subject !!….He’s so uninformed I could laugh all day at his crap. He is incapable of answering a question that has a yes or no answer. Very often, he doesn’t answer the question, he just starts a new topic. I have never seen anyone like him in an interview with so much at stake, in my life !!
Like I said the only way he gets a media job is on the “Racist Reality Radio’ Network. Someone stated he is a lawyer. I found an RZ that is a lawyer but I find it impossible this guy is a lawyer in any way, shape or form.
You know, that is what bothers me about all of GZ’s surrogates before he was even charged. Rather than say along the lines, “I trust that the investigators will find the truth and my brother not be charged with committing a crime,” they began telling GZ’s version of what Trayvon purportedly did.
His NEN call was released, then the tape of his re-enactment. Those things together demonstrate that GZ should have been arrested. Had thing gone down according to GZ’s version of taking a beat-down, there would have been no reason for him to lie so extensively during the re-enactment.
You got it !! Or as Z said “…you got me (Sheriff) ”
It comes down to “Me thinks thou protest too much dear Juliet”
I have a copy of this rare video clip before his arrest.
Officer “Mr. Zimmerman, you have the right to remain silent…..”
Z “……umm…..okay……………………..but why would I do that…….I have so many more versions to tell you.”
Can anyone argue this is an impossible scenario……after all…it’s reality !!
Has anyone here every said something they wish they had not ?? I know I have……
Has anyone here ever had an opportunity to say something and did not and said ……….man am I glad I stayed silent on that one!!
Hey George…..isn’t it time for you or one of your posse to get in front of the camera with the red light on ??
You have nailed it !! As an example….years ago I had a customer of mine who was ripped off at a regular repair shop. I have a race car / high performance / carburetor shop, but have done regular repair for years. I am an honest Christian man and would rather “lose” money on a job than rip anyone off. My customer asked if I would testify for him in small claims court on his behalf as an expert witness. I prepared a report and did so. My testimony and report is what won his case. There was a lawyer there who grabbed me afterwards and stated what you did……Can I call the expert. He’s a lawyer…..I’m a car guy……..I need an expert he said.. Yep, I can do that. He does the lawyering & I do the car / legal repair / rip off end.
I don’t do transmissions….I call my expert…I don’t paint cars….I call an expert…..you have to know where to draw the line and that is where the Zidiot Nation from the top on down fails. Not a lick of sense.
Exactly… There are times when the thing to be done is so inconsequential, you can afford to take the risks of doing it yourself and hazard the trial and error. But it’s foolish to do that when the stakes are high and the issues terribly critical.
Had Z’s father called for a media expert, he’d have gotten a lot more in the bargain, because experts rely on other experts they know and usually have such a casual relationship, that you get expertise that you didn’t even pay for.
The point is, his expert would have recognized that making some statements actually puts the family on trial in the media, so they know what to do and say and what not to say or do. Instead they ran amuck, trying to avoid only the most obvious pitfalls, only to find themselves stumbling into them anyway, like bulls in a china shop. They recoil from one stack of shelves crashing to the ground, only to knock over another stack behind them.
Merrill Lynch did a commercial where they had this bull, incredibly navigate his way through a china shop without knocking over a single tea cup. I was amazed, knowing how much effort had to go into training the bull to do that (unless they used trick photography, but it didn’t appear so). Then, later on someone posted a video on youtube of a real bull in a real china shop, what a gas that was. because it started off the same way as the ML commercial.
Anyway, GZ’s family has managed to jump into the same pit with GZ and worse yet, he continues to drag his own side down even further. It’s a wonder that donations haven’t stopped completely yet.
All true. We sued our mortgage company in 2010 with 22 counts of every type of fraud there is. To try and cover their trail, the began fabricating documents and forging our names. We had to hire an handwriting expert and we proved 80 forged signatures. Our expert is friends with ……….drum roll please…….Tom Owens !! We became familiar with his work through our expert. The Zidiots scoff at his work, BUT, he is unassailable in court. He’s the audio analyst who determined it is a 95% probability it is not Z on the 911 calls.
I’d tend to buy that.
Experts ……………don’t try your case without ’em !! and never run your mouth on your own.
You betcha! I had a friend struggling to write his resume, I said forget it, get yourself a pro and pay the freight. He didn’t want to because he feared that it wouldn’t have that “do it yourself” look and wouldn’t look real. I told him, don’t sweat the small stuff, having a professionally written resume shows that you know how and when to delegate responsibility. It’s people who try to do everything themselves who are the most dangerous people around. Because they’re prone to making the biggest, easily avoidable mistakes.
The pro’s maintain a store of knowledge they acquire through feed back of seeing the results of their work. They know where and how to find out things, you couldn’t match an hour of a pro’s work, with weeks and weeks of study. Because they do it all the time, while you may do this task once every few years.
You’d think the father, having held a public position, would have taught his children better. Even as a magistrate he’s seen real pros appear before him, doesn’t he even realize that he reacts differently when he deals with people who know their stuff? Oh right, he’s “Your Majesty” right? NOT!!! Give him the office of a sovereign and he’d probably last a day before the palace guard rose up to take him to the gallows.
I can only hope GZ is reading this, if he can understand how complex a mess he’s made by thinking everyone is so easily fooled, maybe he can really begin to feel sorry that he ever got out of his truck. Now he finds himself on the business end of exactly the kind of mess the NW program instructions warned him could happen if he broke the rules. Bet he thought that would only apply if he was caught without a good excuse for his conduct and no friends on the force.
You Majesty !! Love that ! I hope every one of them reads everything we say…..
You would think that His (dis)Honor the Magistrate would recognize what would constitute a pro at work. BUT ! there is a video of him at the “T” where he says “…this is where that young man lost his life..” in the most condescending way possible. In a “..you messed with “The Man” on this one and lost”
To be honest, he was in Military Intelligence, then became a Magistrate which requires 2 weeks of classes and a HS diploma.
How professional is he ?
Wasn’t Wolfinger (sp?) also involved in military intelligence? Don’t ask me for the cite, can’t find it right now, but it’s out there somewhere.
Don’t bother to look….he was….he and RZ Sr are friends from way back…Gee….Imagine that.
Hmmm… so he’s a low brow attempting to pass as a high brow. Well, we see that often enough. No wonder they’re causing GZ so much trouble and failing to effectively support their cause.
The blind leading the stupid trying to influence the incompetent on their side.
Well said and all true…….where’s the “Fan” button ?
I have a new post up:
Zimmerman: The Defense Subpoenas for School Records and Social Media Accounts Were Proper
“Circuit Court Judge Debra Nelson allowed, with limitations, defense attorneys to dig deep into Martinās social media scribblings and school records to determine whether the boy had a violent streak that may have put Zimmerman into a self-defense stance.”
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2012/1020/George-Zimmerman-judge-OKs-question-Who-was-the-real-Trayvon-Martin
WTF? What about determining if GZ had a violent streak that may have put Trayvon into a self-defense stance? Lord knows he has a history of violence and chasing people down. DAMN!!!
same article, Professor is quoted here:
āFor example, if Trayvon Martin was known to be an aggressive bully who started fights, the defense would be permitted to bring that out at trial,ā Mr. Leatherman writes. āThe defense would be limited to introducing the evidence as a character trait. Assuming such evidence exists, which I doubt, it might be in the school records. Therefore, I believe the defense has a legitimate reason to want to review the records.ā
This is really NOT creating a problem for the prosecution. First of all, Trayvon would not only have to have a very violent background but there would also have to have been evidence that HE, Trayvon, was doing something OTHER THAN DEFENDING HIMSELF that night. Even a violent person is perfectly justified in defending himself.
Furthermore, let’s just say arguendo (which is beyond the unlikely and on into the “supremely unlikely”) that it shows up that Trayvon is a black belt in MMA and that he has been so violent in high school that his school records comment on that. As soon as the defense tries to bring that in, in comes GEORGE ZIMMERMAN’S PAST VIOLENCE. Now, “prior bad acts” can no longer be shielded by the defense. All George’s prior acts of violence flood into the case. The ATF cop he assaulted in 2005 is on the stand now in the Prosecution’s rebuttal case. In comes Veronica Zuazo. In comes the lady who was thrown across the room in the “illegal party” that George worked, getting paid under the table. In comes every person who, in George’s past, took a slap or a kick or an angry shove or a punch or a threat or a bonk on the head or a brazen look. The trial won’t be three weeks long; it will stretch out over the foreseeable future. Experts will be on the stand assessing everyone’s propensity for violence, etc. etc. etc.
O’Mara’s not going there. He’s blowing smoke. I hope the Fulton-Martins aren’t too upset because this is not really about Trayvon; it’s about the strategy of desperation. Remember:
The State has the shell casing,
The State has the victim’s body, and
The State has the statements already made by George Z.
Keep getting your kids martial arts training, don’t be afraid it will give their killers an avenue of escape by claiming “self-defense”; it’s a nowhere-goer. O’Mara’s gotto do these things because he hasn’t got anything else TO DO.
Yes, I do understand they are just feeding the fishes, but it pisses me off.
Well said !! rachael….stay cool…..Moron O’ Mara is in over his head.
Remember “The State has the statements already made by George Z.” and that was in April !!
They are so desperate it’s a joke if you know how legal things go. I’m not a lawyer but I do expert reports and witness testimony in Consumer Fraud. Not that this is the same thing BUT I see how lawyers go about and it’s easy to see here that the defense is lost.
One very good lawyer said to me “When you don’t have the facts, argue the law……when you don’t have the law…..argue the facts…..when you have both….it’s a no brainer.
What has O’ Mara argued……….nothing !! He’s majoring in the minors. Very little of Trayvon’s past will be argued nor be relevant. Remember….Z didn’t have the right to confront, detain nor restrain Adolph Hitler if he say him walking suspiciously in the rain, let alone shoot him. That’s a fact.
Please don’t worry about anybody getting FaceBook or Twitter stuff from either Trayvon Martin OR from DeeDee or anybody else. None of them has conspired to kill George Zimmerman and none of them has anything on those social media sites that is going to be considered RELEVANT EVIDENCE. What the judge gave O’Mara was ACCESS (if even FB and Twitter do not defeat that access now that the ball is in THEIR court) to the accounts. Nothing in them is going to be relevant and now that I have seen Judge Nelson in action, I realize that we have nothing to fear. She is no powder puff; she is no fool; she is no patsy. There will be O’Mara arguing that DeeDee saying she was so upset about Trayvon’s death was “a lie” and that therefore her statements are all lies and therefore Trayvon tried to murder George Zimmerman — not gonna fly with Judge Nelson. There will be O’Mara arguing that Trayvon saying he went to a movie and that movie having contained violence means Trayvon’s a thug who tried to murder George Zimmerman — not gonna fly with Judge Nelson. ONLY RELEVANT, COMPETENT, MATERIAL evidence is going to be allowed in to this trial. And thus, nothing to really worry about. This is to give the guys at the Outhouse a collective hard-on and to give O’Mara the look of having fought this case tooth and nail.
Sit in lotus position, let the tension drain out of your neck, press down your shoulders, and whisper the mantra: wehavetheshellcasingggggggggggg…wehaveMrZimmermansstatementsssssssssssssss…andwehaveMrMartinsbodyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy…
shantih,
shantih,
shantih,
peace.
” There will be OāMara arguing that Trayvon saying he went to a movie and that movie having contained violence means Trayvonās a thug who tried to murder George Zimmerman.”
What a totally stupid argument. How many other people went to see that movie? Did any of them try to murder GZ too? If so, then I “might” believe it, but since no one else tried to, why would I believe Trayvon did?
What a flimsy stupid argument.
I was using hyperbole to show how idiotic the argument is and how anything he thinks he has found is useless in terms of an attempt to bolster up the already disproven claim of self-defense. But the law says O’Mara has to HAVE the opportunity to chase down all the blind alleys he wants to chase down.
roderick, don’t worry, this is no “show trial.” Although I believe there will not be a trial, but only a plea bargain, it seems to me that the reason for that has more to do with this recent deposition and the “emergency motion” [a cop told O’Mara that “investigators” met and decided George should not be charged] than with the determination of George Zimmerman’s fate. My reasoning: A trial would bring out the facts about why Zimmerman was not charged immediately and what kinds of unlawful machinations were involved in making sure that most of the evidence against him was not even collected. Even so, the remaining evidence that could not be “neglected out of existence” proves some damning and “stubborn” facts:
1. George had ill will and malice. He referred to Trayvon as “suspicious,” as “up to no good,” as an “asshole” and as a “fucking punk.” He has admitted all this. He even described his victim as “the suspect” in writing — AFTER KILLING HIM.
2. George killed Trayvon Martin.
3. George’s version of the events of that evening are contradicted by the PHYSICAL EVIDENCE that cannot be retroactively changed or discounted.
The rest is gravy.
So there is no way that this is going to be a “show trial” or that George is going to escape punishment — unless he just plain escapes, in which case, I wouldn’t set him very high on the actuarial charts. He’s going to either plead or go to trial. O’Mara will draw it out as long as humanly possible hoping, probably, that he can negotiate less prison time for his client. This is not the kind of case where the actual act committed is or can be denied by the defendant (as OJ said he never killed Nicole and Ronald Goldman; as Anthony said she never killed her baby, etc.) George killed Trayvon Martin. The only way out is that somebody somewhere can believe that he did it in self-defense.
Self-defense may not even be available as a defense — and this case may make law — if the person claiming it actually PURSUED the alleged attacker. Certainly it shouldn’t be. If it were possible to claim self-defense based on fear of injury or death from the middle to the end of a physical encounter, ANY ARMED PERSON could kill any unarmed person so long as the unarmed person TRIED to defend himself. See, the armed person could pursue and confront the unarmed person who, trapped, could fight valiantly, which could give the armed person “reason to think he was going to be injured or killed” which could justify his shooting the victim to death. Think of it. I could get PLENTY scared of certain individuals I might pursue when all I had wanted to do was ask them about their opinions about something, and then when I tapped their shoulders to get their attention, they might very well have unlawfully begun to fight with me, putting me in fear — Oh MY there might be many such individuals!
Malisha says:roderick, donāt worry, this is no āshow trial.ā Although I believe there will not be a trial, but only a plea bargain,
A plea deal would be as bad as an acquittal because neither side will trust the FL justice system again and no one will be able to see the evidence that the state had to convict him and the Zimbots will still be able to claim that their hero was railroaded
Also I doubt that a Romney led DOJ would pursue charges against George so he wouldn’t have to worry about doing any addditional time on those counts.
Good thing Romney won’t be in the WH.
MEOW!!
Cielo, don’t be so certain.
Remember Bush was appointed by the Supreme Court in 2000 but actually won fair and square (well if you don’t count that election fraud in Ohio) in 2004.
Neither time should he have come close to being able to steal the election and Romney and the Republicans are playing too many dirty tricks in Ohio the main one being his son owns the company that controls the electronic voting machines in Ohio. *sigh*
this is off topic, but for those of us who signed the petition at change.org to have travyon’s case re-opened, investigated and prosecuted there is a petition there for the DOJ to investigate the romney voter machine acquisition. i have to hold on to hope (as i did last time i signed) that this can be effective.
more info can be found at http://tinyurl.com/9pqej5j. pass it on!
You might want to look at the Horn case in Texas. He got off claiming self defence. It all depends on the jury listening. In the Hood case, it never even got that far. It is an interesting case that should scare alot of people.
Horn Case, pardon me.
That’s Texas and has 0 relevance and cannot be cited in FL.
So we won’t bother to look.
Scared…..not hardly.
Did I miss something? One thing I can say is Florida is a bias state. The only reason it got this far is because of the famous celebs and social media. It saddens me that if you are a minority it is more difficult to get justice. They drag it on because in my opinion their life means less in our country. Just my opinion.
If O’Mara is ultimatley unsuccessful in obtaining Trayvon’s Facebook records could he use that as a basis for appeal when Zimmerman is ultimately convicted?
On what grounds?
@Rachel: O’Mara wasn’t able to obtain Trayvon’s Facebook account therefore he wasn’t able to determine Trayvon’s ‘character’ as it related to violence and who started the fight the night of the shooting.
Judge Nelson endorsed that line of thinking by allowing O’Mara to access Trayvon’s FB account.
@roderick2012.
Don’t quote me on this, but IMO, an appeal on that basis would only be possible if the State fails to present forensic evidence that Trayvon never touched GZ. You see, this entire agenda to thugify Trayvon is an effort to prove that he read GZ’s mind, knew he would follow him on foot, and use his superhuman abilities to become invisible until the right time to attack GZ, inflicting such wounds that GZ feared for his life. But then comes the forensics and physical evidence.
Be careful what you pray for you might just get it! George! New judge maybe you should have kept Lester?
i have entertained that thought myself. it seems like a beautiful case of ‘out of the frying pan and into the fire’. judge nelson put up with much less nonsense than lester did.
Am I being paranoid (and ignorant of the law) that Judge Nelson just gave the defense a huge opening to delay this trial indefinitely by allowing O’Mara to obtain Trayvon’s Facebook account?
Is O’Mara even qualified to to try a case in federal court or will he be able to play the media and make this another iteration of David (George) vs. Goliath (Facebook)?
I can see O’Mara passing the hat and going on the Piers Morgan show begging some lawyers with federal court experience to represent his client in his lawsuit against Facebook.
When Facebook refuses to turn over the contents of Trayvon’s account then there’s the appeal and maybe O’Mara will take the case all the way to the Supreme Court.
I see O’Mara being able to delay the trial beyond the start date of the trial next summer.
When I read that this was a show trial to placate Trayvon’s family and the African American community in general I didn’t believe them, but after observing the passiveness of the State and the absurd rulings by Judge Nelson including allowing the defense access to DeeDee’s Facebook account I am beginning to agree with the cynics.
“After observing the passiveness of the State and the absurd rulings by Judge Nelson including allowing the defense access to DeeDee’s Facebook account I am beginning to agree with the cynics.”
I thought the State was passively ineffective in so many ways, including the medical records request. It was like West and MOM were double-teaming BDLR and he was on the defense and wasn’t very good at defense even.
Is there anyone else on the prosecution team other than BDLR. (I also thought, MOM, who I despise, seemed to handle himself better in court overall.)
Jun, I never remembered her saying that either, but it was in the interview done by BDLR. Someone on one of the blogs claimed that DeeDee made such a suggestion, but I never heard it. Even if she did, it’s irrelevant. If a witness asks, “shall I say something I should not say?” and the prosecutor says, “no, only say what happened,” or words to that effect, no harm is done. An unsophisticated witness might very well make such a suggestion, especially if she has been watching too much television. You know how these hero cops get together on TV and do whatever it takes to bring in the bad dangerous criminal before he destroys the world.
He is attacking a dead kid who cant even defend any allegations made against him, plus he’s a kid
Omara already made it clear he plans to harass Deedee on the stand… she’s just a little girl and I am guessing that it will not go well in front of judge or jury
then it opens the door on Zimmerman’s history
Then comes all the other evidence on Zimmerman
Has Omara even sat aside with Zimmerman and said…
“Listen… this sidewalk headbashing… and chased and turned back to go to car and then ended up further from my vehicle towards the deceased… is just not gonna fly… the 200 punches from the african american superman is not gonna work… he is a 150 pound kid with skittles and ice tea…the media conspiracy and political conspiracy angle is not gonna work… you’re an idiot”
I am not a legal expert but disparaging kids, the one you stalked and killed, and then the friend who is even younger… does not sound like it will fly well with a jury, as if there is not enough bad history on Zimmerman…
Jun says: “I am not a legal expert but disparaging kids, the one you stalked and killed, and then the friend who is even youngerā¦ does not sound like it will fly well with a jury, as if there is not enough bad history on Zimmermanā¦”
The only hope MOM has to win is if Zimmerman has a majority of Conservative Treehouse type jurors who fear black kids, think they are thugs, up to no good and on drugs and they don’t give a care what the white Hispanic killer’s background is.
I wonder how many people actually think like the Conservative Treehouse posters even if they don’t post on pro-Zimmerman blogs.
George’s story plays with racists, with paranoids, with resentful, ego-wounded braggarts, and with all sorts of really ignorant people. Falling into any one of the groups mentioned would do it; you wouldn’t have to be all four or even three out of four. The good news, though, is that racists, paranoids, “angry-self-serving-handing-out-lies-every-second” [ASSHOLES], and ignoramuses are not terribly good at hiding their agendas, so a really gifted jury-selection expert can usually identify them.
George’s story will not fly with any rational person. O’Mara’s tactics are “full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.” So color me pretty confident right now, especially after watching George’s face for a while yesterday. I think he is going to get his.
I could not agree with you more. They are Zidiots, from the Zidiot Nation and I have no problem calling them out…..God how they hate me for that……and I’m damn glad of it !!
“So color me pretty confident right now, especially after watching Georgeās face for a while yesterday. I think he is going to get his.”
I hope you are correct and that GZ knows something is happening behind the scenes we don’t know about and that is why he looked so terrible/weird, aside from the obscene weight gain.
I do wonder also if GZ is starting to read blogs like this that are blowing his story apart in a logical manner, rather than the emotional/racist blogs like Conservative Treehouse.
His confidence is indeed gone and instead we have GZ 2.0 looking haggard and pasty with nervous blinking eyes who is in need of a police escort to waddle out of the courtroom. Looks like karma is catching up with GZ sooner rather than later and I am very happy to see GZ in this state of mind.
Malisha says: Georgeās story will not fly with any rational person.
But O’Mara only has to seat one irrational person on the jury.
roderick 2012: “But O’Mara only has to seat one irrational person on the jury.”
Exactly! It seems like there are plenty of irrational/dumb people to go around so 1/12 or 1/6 doesn’t seem that hard to achieve.
Even if they seat the one juror… that is a hung jury and they can ask the certain juror their reasoning and then see if they can change it. If not, then the trial can be retried with a new jury. at 5 to 1, I think that is possible but again, I am just going by google research.
A “hung jury” is a hung jury, one that is unable to come to a decision. The “pro/con” count doesn’t matter, the case can be
retried as many times as the prosecution wants to, because a hung jury is not an acquittal, in fact it amounts to no trial at all, for “double jeopardy” purposes.
You said,
Actually, it does matter because the State is considerably less likely to retry a 5 to 1 in favor of acquittal that it is a 5 to 1 in favor of guilt.
Also depends on whether the proof-problem that led to the hung jury is fixable. To get that information, they need feedback from the juror(s) who voted for acquittal.
Thanks for fixing that for me. I was merely responding to the technicality side of it. Yes, they’d be unlikely to retry if the count went badly against the pros. I was merely stating that they could ignore it if they wanted to. Of course, it wouldn’t be wise, since it would appear to be a mere “mean spirited” attempt to punish the defendant, than an attempt to reach for justice.
With that said, I don’t see how MOM is going to introduce any complexity into the case. Because the most critical evidence, comes from the only person “left standing”.
He says that he was knocked to the ground at the T. He says he was mounted then and there, and his head was pounded on the concrete until he thought it would explode. He then says that he felt that his assailant was reaching for his concealed weapon — that he had forgotten he had — and he then drew that weapon and fired it, from his prone position on the ground.
So that’s the self defense story that GZ tells, to explain why Trayvon is dead. The jury should get that story first.
Next up: The evidence!
“Whoa Nellie; what’s this?”: The assailants body is no where near the T, how could that have happened?
“WTH???”: There’s no dna or other trace on the assailants hands? How could that have happened?
“Golly George, did you really say that?”: “These A$$holes always get away!” , “Yes I’m following him!”, “He’s coming to check me out!”, “He ran!”
But George, you must have forgotten something. If you were almost blacking out at the T where your head was being slammed, you didn’t fire the shot there. So, how did you wind up some 40 feet away? Did TM take your gun and force you to walk south? You know, before you were able to wrestle it back and shoot him?
Oh NO, George, the witnesses who came out preclude that scenario, so you must have walked south yourself. Or maybe Trayvon grabbed you by the leg and dragged you south?
What is it we’re missing George, please, speak up and tell the jury!
Because there was only one gun at the scene, and because it was a concealed weapon. It’s hardly surprising that you would be the one to gain control of it. But, once you gained control of the only weapon around, it’s unlikely that a teen would attack an armed man, isn’t it? Isn’t that the reason you believe you have to be on the bottom? Because that makes it sound like you’re in imminent danger of… what? What is an armed man in danger of, from a kid with only his hands?
Here’s the thing Georgie, when you have someone at gunpoint, you also have them at “death point” as well. So it isn’t likely they’d do anything, once they realize the odds of them ever doing anything ever again, are so poor. A person who is at gunpoint, has to fear great bodily injury or death IMMINENTLY, since all that’s required is a trigger pull. While the person who doesn’t have a gun or other weapon, has a very long way to go and a rough road to travel, if they are going to cause any serious injury.
All I can say is, have fun entertaining the jurors, because you can bet your life the joke is on you George!
Sorry, in case there was miscommunication, my intention was to follow the ideal of 5 to 1 for guilty
To quote another blogger on Friday’s hearing. “Regardless of how anyone feels about George Zimmerman, shame on them for “making fun” of his appearance…OR ANYONE ELSE’S FOR THAT MATTER!!” This same has supported ridiculing and harassment of a select few while stating “I like to have fun!” People should learn to smile more and have fun!” Some of this “fun” is outright bully attacks in attempt to humiliate and intimidate, having accomplished their intent to “run off” it has actually worked well in many instances.
IMO George Zimmerman has EARNED a little “fun making”, quite different from those unsuspecting & selected with no reason given.
Are you kidding me? GZ in a jailhous phone call with his wife, made referene to TM’s hoodie, all the while joing and let me paraphrase this, “He wiill come out when he receives bail wearing a hoodie.” Somthing along those lines. I was appalled to hear that! How dare he joke about wearing a hoodie! So, please don’t be surpried if I do not cry tears over poor, GZ and his appearance. What goes around comes around. To make fun of a dead kids hoodie? The kid that you held onto and shot dead and now lies cold, and still in a brown coffin six feet below ground? Puhleese!
When “datracistmurderergz” made that “datniggytb” on his facebook page it became “Game On” Every word spoken about Z “in fun” is well deserved. Notice there is no mention of the Zidiot Nations filth.
Do you realize Z made fun of Trayvon by reference to “Datniggytb” on his facebook page the day after he committed murder. Are you aware the entire Zidiot Nation of blatant racists does everything in it’s power to insult and bully everyone on Team Trayvon.
How about the gun targets of Trayvon’s hoodie image ?? forget about that one……I didn’t.
As DG-M stated, Z and SheLie made sick comments about wearing a hoodie coming out of jail. Forget….Not I !!
I could go on and on…..Z gets 0 respect and anyone who has fun at his or the Zidiot Nation’s expense is justified.
racerrodig says: “Do you realize Z made fun of Trayvon by reference to “Datniggytb” on his facebook page the day after he committed murder.:
I didn’t know that. I haven’t read GZ facebook but I thought it was all old stuff. If MOM opens Trayvon’s FB door, looks like GZ’s FB can be used against him.
As usual, Moron O’ Mara has no clue. Z must forget everything he has ever said or done since the day of his earliest memory. The
datniggy is self explanatory “tb” is Trayvon Benjamin. When questions some time later his 2 watt brother blew it off with and I’ll paraphrase “…..Oh pshaw…..everyone called Z “datniggy” since he was in grade school…..and tb is “tug boat” because of his weight.
Are they kidding ?? They are going to be tap dancing on the mine field from here on…….
I thought that “Datniggytb” was explained as a handle GZ used for myspace or some other social media, the tb stood for tugboat because he was heavy in 2005.
Anyone who buys that needs to talk to a mental health specialist.
okie dokie
Who’s DG-M?
@racerrodig:
DGM is me! Deborah Garner-Moore! You know me from HP! I was the one who reminded the posters about GZ alluding to the fact that when he was on the phone with Shellie at the jail, he and Shellie were joking about him wearing his grey hoodie when he left. Not just bad taste, but disrespectful and just the most horrific thing to state and joke about! He murdered this kid and he is not the least bit traumatized or caring about the fact that it was his actions that led to this boy losing his life at age 17. A boy, who he only to well remembes was begging and pleading for his life! The fact that he could joke about this kids death, turns my heart cold and indifferent and I don’t care if anyone calls him and Shellie names! What he will be called in prison will be much worse!.They both need to suck it up and I am not about to correct anyone who does!
Also, GZ saw TM that day wearing his hoodie that day because he was following TM as soon as he left the 7/11 store. How would he know what color it was or that their was a button on his hoodie?
Right, and believe me when I say that if GZ gets away with this, he will put his “accomplishment” on his resume. He is proud of killing an unarmed kid and not being charged. Like the Zidiots, he is still under the impression that the State will dismiss the charge.
He did have an alternative plan, however, which was to use his valid passport and disappear using other people’s money that he and ShelLIE lied about to the court. If not but for the fact that Judge Lester ordered the GPS ankle bracelet, IMO, GZ would have disappeared.
I agree completely that he was pulling a “Scott Peterson” The look on his face on Friday is far from what he had months ago. The smirk is gone. I’d say he knows this is no joke now. I still think he has some sort of “Manson” hold on O’ Mara however. If his posse and the sites like the Conservative Nuthouse keep spewing the garbage cheer “Go Z Go….Go, Go, Go….did no wrong, now Go Z Go” he may be in denial forever, but I have my sources and it looks like he knows the world just started to collapse.
One of my connections stated the state will ambush him a bit and hold him to a “higher standard” being he had NW training, CCW permit training, which we now know he didn’t and 7+ years in that Criminal Justice course. In effect…..”He knew better” I’ve seen this used in cases I have done expert witness work for. So far, it has worked every time….and Da – Da being a magistrate !!
I@racerrodig.
Oh yes, that and the fact that he didn’t get want he wanted — another judge to manage discovery; Trayvon’s parents’ addresses, a deposition of attorney Crump in court and an order of the court for the FBI and DOJ to turn over all discovery.
<blockquote? … but I have my sources and it looks like he knows the world just started to collapse.
Good for him. I hope that is what is keeping him up nights.
Perhaps at some point he’ll realize that the people taking his side are providing nothing useful for his defense, they’re not challenging or explaining the evidence in ways that can be used in court. While his opponents are discussing things that most certainly will appear in the court record. That, along with the severely depressed demand for media interviews, should be telling him he’s in serious trouble.
His “close” friends have also gone ultra quiet, as if they’ve developed severe troubles of their own. With most of the families social connections broken, all they have is MOM’s resources to keep them. My guess is his life is slowly turning into an inescapable nightmare.
Osterman is likely taking serious heat for his involvement in helping Shellie move GZ’s truck. Taaffe is stuck in the jaws of foreclosure with no where to go, because of the notoriety he now takes with him, and we mustn’t forget his new drunk driving case, which at the least, will result in severely restricted driving rights. Shellie facing perjury charges, RZ is probably finding it difficult to find work. Father facing broken connections, few if any people are willing to speak with him.
So slides the entire ball of offal down a very steep hillside.
The idea that I gather from their logic is that even if GZ didn’t claim self-defense, they would still advise him to turn the case into a “I am superior to the person I killed, therefore it’s not murder.”
As you have expressed, GZ is toxic. His family suffers because of his actions — not because of threats. Heck, some of his supporters issue veil threats all the time over the internet claiming to know something personal or have the address to a pro-justice supporter.
Logically, big-bad folks carrying guns who say they do so for protection, don’t abandon their homes, belly-ache about threats, but if you send them money, all their problems go away. (sheesh)
Well stated…..
I have a suspicion that the 200k plus that came in, was the work of a few gun club biggies who bundled it. Bundling is where they use lots of different peoples name to send in lots of money, making it appear that there are lots of donors, when in fact there are really just one, two or a few. The racist wouldn’t have that kind of capability, but the gun lobbies certainly do.
There’s just a trickle of money coming in from small donors and it doesn’t seem to be adding up to very much. I imagine it will grow even smaller now that things are settling down for the long haul till June.
I wonder if that date could possibly move forward if all the motions are done with and the depositions are finished?
@Lonnie Starr. Based on Insight Credit Union statements, between April 9 and April 12, 2012, GZ received about $75,180.00 in his PayPal account. IIRC, he was arrested on April 11th or 12. Money was deposited from PayPal to his Credit Unionās account on April 16, 18, 19, and 24th.
The surge came after his arrest and no doubt because of it. After it was exposed that GZ and ShelLIE went through $38,000 paying pre-Feb. 26th debts, IMO, donors felt betrayed. That is why there are still come donating small amounts, but nothing near the first surge.
When GZ showed up for court on Friday, he did not have bodyguards. Maybe he has given up having security as that was eating up much of the money. Apparently, MOM gave him enough allowance to purchase a sport’s jacket, but not a suit.
Xena says: “Apparently, MOM gave him enough allowance to purchase a sport’s jacket, but not a suit”
There are 2 thrifty reasons why MOM would not have wanted GZ to invest in a suit. At the rate GZ is growing, he would have to purchase another bigger suit for the next hearing, but then again, maybe MOM thinks GZ will have no need for a suit in prison.
@JM.
I’m trying to be nice and not laugh at GZ fat jokes — so I’m sitting here with cheeks puffed out, lips perched, eyebrows up — oh forget it. LMAO!
Ahhh, he was wearing that new “Triple Layer, Kevlar Lined, Double Plated Steel, Teflon Coated” bullet proof vest. That takes up a lot of space !!
But a bullet proof vest doesn’t make the face and neck bigger!!! The back of GZ’s neck was folded over his shirt collar. (And I don’t think he buttoned the top button of his shirt, either.) Maybe MOM should just put him in a tent. It can also double as his home.
Sorry, I forgot to mention the bullet proof facial implants.
You’re right, and as to his weight gain, it makes him look worse. The jury will see him as big and the mug shots of him big and no matter how you look, Trayvon was 156…..and a minor.
Uh oh, not putting on your best for the public, equates with surrender. GZ should have been in a suit, even if it took food out of MOM’s mouth. MOM appears to have decided there’s no reason to keep up appearances. Without a security detail, they’re leaving GZ’s safety to pot luck. That can never be good. MOM’s fees easily eat up the dregs coming in. Some time soon we may hear a plea from MOM’s to be allowed to go back to pro bono status, at least that way he gets a faster tax write off, than waiting for a client who cannot pay, to prove that he won’t pay.
Lonnie says: “Uh oh, not putting on your best for the public, equates with surrender. GZ should have been in a suit, even if it took food out of MOM’s mouth. MOM appears to have decided there’s no reason to keep up appearances.”
Lonnie could it be GZ should have been in a suit even if it took food out of GZ’s mouth. Between he and ShelLIE, it looks like they aren’t hurting for food budget. Maybe they should be responsible for their appearance and not rely on an attorney.
I did not even notice GZ didn’t have a suit on I was so astounded by the general appearance, demeanor and the huge weight gain. Maybe that look GZ has adapted suggests surrender and there is nothing O’Mara can do about that. I suspect GZ’s stupid lies surrounding his murder of a black teen is catching up with him and it shows.
As brain dead as I think Z is, how can he not know the sky is falling. Having worked with lawyers and being in the conference room, even though these are civil suits, I can say that O’ Mara has to have said at some point “…………..Oh Bullchit……who do you think you’re kidding……..nobody is buying that and certainly not a jury. I can’t get up in front of them and expect to say “..my client was beaten so bad….oh look at all those injuries” No George….they’re scratches, and if you don’t think the prosecutor won’t have pictures and experts showing what a real head bashing looks like……well…
you have another think coming !! ” Not to mention the voice analysis which I know for a fact, will smoke his turkey and make him a laughing stock. That moment in court will be that “TV” moment if they get that far.
There are two pics of him at the following. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/new-motions-trayvon-martin-case-article-1.1187607
This morning, TruTV showed him getting out of the passenger side of a dark SUV and walking by himself up the sidewalk into the courthouse.
yikes! those pants fit BAD! looks like he’s wearing a cod-piece (which sends me into full body shivers)
GZ will have plenty of time to work with weights in prison. Right now it’s gravity — that ankle bracelet is causing everything to droop.
Yes, but as money dwindles, food/nutrition also downgrades, this weight gain is probably the weight gain that comes with the poverty diet of sugar and salt saturated lard and high fructose corn syrup.
I’d hate to see what Shelly looks like. But by the time of trial I’d expect Z will look something like the Hindenburg.
@Lonnie Starr.
It was no doubt an embarrassment for GZ to appear in court not dressed to the nines like he previously appeared.
IMO, no one wants to harm GZ. We’re having too much enjoyment watching him be his own worst enemy.
We did the math on this based on on information from the Zidiot camp & Moron O’ Mara. They collected 200K. They stated, and we found to true that 3 entities donated 100K. One donated 25K twice and 2 donated 25K once each = 100K.
That leaves 100K and O’ Mara stated there are many repeat donators, we’ll say 1/3 are repeat and they stated a $20.00 average donation. $100,000.00 @ $20.00 = 5000 Zidiots who donated. They stated there are repeat donators, and even if 25% are that leaves 3,750 Zidiots who donated. This could be + or – a few depending on how many repeats and some may have donated $10.00 or $100.00.
BUT even though it is offensive that these slugs donate and support a murderer, there is nowhere the support they think they have. Less than 4000…..Nuff Said.
2x to 3x??? Sounds like a bot to me. Who donates 30 dollars in three 10 dollar donations, over 2 or 3 days? A human donor gives the 30 dollars and is done with it. Only software “donor” bots, make multiple small contributions. The gun people have plenty of those, because they need to shuttle large amounts of money to candidates, quickly and in many small amounts, to stay within the rules.
From your research I’d say the Z camp money came from just two or three of these donor bots. They came at a time when the issue of SYG appeared to be poised to play a critical part in the case. Once that issue waned in importance, all that was left was the hate groups. They are disorganized and don’t have the databases or the donor bots to play with, so all they’re getting is the errant 10 and 20 dollar donations, amounting to about 30 to 40 donors per day nationwide, and dwindling.
This surge and ebb is having a tremendous psychological impact on team Z. It appears it would have been better for them if it had never happened at all.
The point is that despite the Conservative Outhouse and all the other Zidiot Billboards claiming this mass support, it is really not many in reality. There was a random internet poll about 6 weeks ago that showed over 90% of Americans polled believed he was guilty. The comical part is that one of the Zidiots provided the link, which is how I found out, and stated this poll was proof Z would walk as the poll was less than 100% ! This is typical Zidiot Nation Logic. This moron did not know the difference between a poll and a jury vote……I tell you no lie.
But the math shows he had less than 4000 people who donated. Even if we’re off…..4500. Hardly “The Masses”
Careful, not everyone over there is stupid, some are just using subterfuge to trick the zimbots into reading things that actually go against them. Like saying things, such as “Zimmerman will be found innocent because he could not have been fighting with TM when the shot was fired. Here’s proof: he had one hand holding TM by the hoodie and the other one holding the gun, so that’s proof that he wasn’t fighting back, so it’s self defense”, then post a link to the actual law, or a good LLMPapa video. If they’re stupid enough to go for it, what they actually see and read will demoralize them.
We used such trickery on usenet, which is probably why they had to shut it down. Used to be all internet service providers carried a usenet farm and gave subscribers free access. The Bushies started a campaign to stop the practice (which was costing ISP’s money anyway), by making complaints that the newsgroups were saturated with porno. It didn’t take long for ISP’s to abandon providing free usenet service.
There are a few free usenet service providers, you can google for them, but they’re a poor substitute for a fully functional account. I use Giganews service and a FreeAgent news reader. But, there’s still a lot of really good free stuff on usenet, fonts, ascii art, political discussions, fractals, you name it they’ve got it. And helpful software guru’s on just about any program or problem you can name.
Very clever Lonnie. Have you tried posting subterfuge and if so did they leave your post up?
They’ll know you by your handle so you’ll need a new one. Don’t worry about your IP few of them are technically advanced to know how to even find it. Then fool around a bit, you’ll discover how powerful it is when people pay attention to nonsense.
When people need no evidence to support what they say, they can say anything at all. So you teach them that it works both ways, by inserting subterfuge. Then the fool rushes away to his favorite site with his “good news” discovery, only to have someone there yell: “Smedley you fool… You’ve done it again!” :LOL:
An example of how they assume pro-GZ is what happened Friday. Trent Sawyer posted the hearing in about 9 pts, plus MOM’s press conference thereafter. I posted an announcement here and embedded MOM’s press conference vid.
Well, seems as though sundancecracker was lurking here, and he embedded Trent’s vids on the treeslum site without watching them first. He didn’t know that Trent was commenting during the vids. LOL! We know that Trent does not withhold his opinion.
After someone here posted about Trent’s vids being on the treeslum, I lurked and discovered they were all thanking sundancecracker — until they watched the vids. Then they wanted to know who was doing commentary during the vids. If you are familiar with Trent, then you know his commentary is not pro-GZ. LOL!!
I watched that from a distance and was thinking Huh ??
Zidiots are so blatantly stupid I marvel at this thought “..who the hell would hire you…” On Sat. on HP a new Zidiot with 0 fans popped up and stated it was unfair that Trayvon used his skills to defend himself. He elaborated on the MMA fighting and all the normal Zidiotic spew.
I slapped him up one side and down the other and had at least 25 “way to go racer…” posts. Then one of more ridiculous Zid’s hops on and says that guy was on our team……He never read the entire post……even some Zidiots ripped him…..Typical !!
They don’t read, or they don’t comprehend what they read, or they cherry-pick from what they read.
All these months later and I’m still amazed at the stupidity.
In response to George Zimmerman looking awful and gaining weight, the Zidiots now disrupt all discussion of the evidence by denigrating Trayvon Martin and his parents. That’s how they retaliate against facts.
That’s about all they have. They are what us actual men call “scum sucking racists” Really…….I’m sure there will be no argument on that one. Well……some think, “scum sucking, racist bastards” but that depends on what time of day usually. (Pardon my French)
Exactly, so you can see just how foolish they are. They can’t help it, anyone who doesn’t pay attention to the evidence, can’t possibly discuss any case rationally. So, if fools are going to go along with a group that simply makes things up, they can’t know when things are being made up for them.
I wish Trent hadn’t voiced over those hearings. And yes I know Trent’s commentary hahaha… The outhouse must have been apoplectic š
Have you looked at what recently happened on the most recent thread? A person from the treeslum paid us a visit, providing more evidence that they don’t want to discuss evidence.
I saw it and slapped him as did a few others…..I do believe he hasn’t posted here since. Nothing like a good swift smack in the mouth.
As an example of how stupid the collective mentality of the Zidiot Nation is, one of use alluded to the “thug mentoring” issue and slowly went to the button Trayvon had on his hoodie. PRESTO, minutes later, one of the Zidiot’s Davywawbe(isalyingbaby) I belive went right down the picture on the button was Trayvon’s uncle who now has a long arrest record and Trayvon was mentored by him in prison…..A hahahahaha Took the bait and ran the line all the way out.
Needless to say we had a ball with him !! It’s child’s play. The utter lack of knowledge by this group is beyond astounding, like their claim that the DNA evidence, or rather, lack of DNA where it should be, means nothing. The best is the bullet trajectory…..which they refuse to even acknowledge. If Z and his inner circle are anything like this……he’s in worse shape than any of us imagine.
I have dealt with those who have that “If I just ignore it, it will go away, not exist or change to my favor” and it never pans out with a positive ending. Hey George…….are you listening….no…Great !!
Good work, keep it up. Keep drawing them so far out and off base that they appear even sillier than they already do. That’ll munge the teahouse into a useless asylum that labels all it’s users as kooks. š
Be sure to create fictional characters too. But keep it reasonable enough to look like they have found something to hang their hats on. So that they’ll go out on the net and try to spread “the word”. Thus revealing who they are immediately to all comers.
Don’t worry, even some of them will eventually find their own board objectionable and move away from it. Some will get so dizzy, they’ll decide they would like to know the truth. You see, a lot of them arrive there by reflex, accident or invitation. Many of them stay because they can’t hack it anywhere else. But the “groupies” just hang there, going along to get along. When things get too crazy for most, most of them will leave. Trust me. So keep stirring the pot. š
Racerrodig, it’s criminal mentality/personality. People don’t have to commit a crime to have it. Rather, it’s a disrespect for the law and the knowledge of those legislating as well as officers of the court.
If they acknowledge evidence, it means that someone is smarter than them. If they apply the facts to the law, it means that someone is smarter than them. Criminal personality traits always think that their “street smarts” are better than “book smarts” because essentially, they have none to very little “book smarts.”
Oh, I know that to be true. Like I always say “..you can’t use logic trying to deal with an illogical mind” yet I still am amazed at what these Zidiot’s say……I guess I look at thinks with “Rose Colored Glasses” as they always say….But on the other hand, I’d rather be me and sleep well than be a millionaire Zidiot.
That we’ve been doing for awhile. It always comes down to “He who laughs last is always named “Team Trayvon”
Of course they leave it up, they can’t tell the difference because they don’t use evidence. Just be sure to assert that “this proves GZ is innocent”, or that he shouldn’t be tried, then follow that with proof of his guilt, but explain that it actually proves him innocent. People who don’t use evidence have no moorings so they cannot detect lies.
The really crazy fools will often take you at your word and carry the message around.
Others, who have a little more sense and are just being clever in ignoring the evidence, will see it and be forced to debunk it, before it spreads and turns more people away from their cause. So they wind up fighting among themselves. We did it on usenet so successfully that they started a campaign to shut it down and they succeeded, because it was free and cost providers money.
But does it work? Just look at the equation: Garbage in::Garbage out! So, you can change the nature of the garbage going in, any way you like, just be sure that it appeals to the garbage sucking audience. š
i have also found that they rarely read an entire post. If you use caps on BS they quote that and miss most of the meat.
Headline Browsing is basically what most of them do. Many times an article is published and I’m stunned at the misinterpretation and misquotes. For Example, Tom Owens, who I am familiar with through am expert I had hired for a mortgage fraud lawsuit, had the results of his audio analysis. He deems a % mismatch of Z’s voice to the 911 calls and that meant it was a 95% chance it was NOT Z screaming for help. Most Zidiots stated it was a 95% match TO Z from his NEN call???? Sheer Stupidity or just playing games….
“I’ll take Stupid Zidiots” for $5,000.00 please.
I fully understand and believe me, they are not fooling me. I see what they spin and I never say anything there.
Considering an entire nation, that number doesn’t equate to a small city. IIRC, before MOM took down GZ’s Facebook, he had around 200 “likes.” Junior has a bit over 200 followers on Twitter and consideration should be given that at least if not more than half are following for curiosity and not because they support the ZImmermans.
Xena: “Junior has a bit over 200 followers on Twitter and consideration should be given that at least if not more than half are following for curiosity and not because they support the ZImmermans.”
I followed him until I got blocked after I tweeted a question regarding his mother beating GZ as a kid.
I read a few of his comments……who’s his writer ?? Frank “The Racist Tank” Taaffe ??
Yep….if at best he has 4500, that’s a very small town. They tried to manipulate things to make it look like this huge swell of “..normal law abiding citizens…” who were concerned about “…self defense rights..” supported him.
Anyone can manipulate numbers, like I do with the little kids..
“How many fingers do you have……” “10 !” they shout with glee. “I have 11 and I’ll prove it. You can count the fingers on my right hand and I’ll count them on my left” “1 2 3 4 5 !” racer says “10 – 9 – 8 – 7 – 6 on my other hand…..hey 6 + 5 = 11 !!” That would be typical Zidiot manipulation, after all………all the evidence points to his innocence.
Yep. The 4500 might take collections on Sundays at their churches just to accumulate more than $25.
A hahahahaha….Yep, those donations are down to a very small trickle. Don’t ya just hate when even some of the racists wise up !
Racerrodig, we know they care nothing about George Zimmerman the person. They threatened on the treeslum to not send another penny to his defense fund unless and until MOM started doing what they want. And thus!!!!! We have the thugification of Trayvon Martin and witness intimidation of DeeDee in the public for all Blacks as a warning;
“If we kill one of you, be forewarned that we will bully, harass, call you a welfare queen and the father a whore. We intend for you to wet your pillow every night with tears over the embarrassment and demeaning that we willfully inflict on you and your dead child. We will threaten to have your attorney disbarred, and prosecutors sued and removed from office. How dare you think that you deserve justice. Justice is killing another N before he reaches the age to go to jail or get on welfare anyway. George Zimmerman did taxpayers a favor.”
Signed, a Zidiot
You have it nailed. No matter what site, I love taking them on. All one needs is common sense to humiliate even the worst of them. There are people in this world that we meet and we say about them
“When I grow up, I wanna be just like you” There are people in the neighborhood who have it together and everyone congregates there, the Mr. Fix it, the guy who can help with anything, has the most common sense, coaches the kids in sports and so on. Well, I had one when I was a kid and now I’m that guy. At this very moment I have half a dozen friends in my shop, who have voiced their opinion about this and, well….Z, you don’t want to hear what they have to say…….It’s not pretty. Even the most “gruff” see’s what Z is and has committed. Of the near 1000 people I’ve talked with about this, being self employed, not one has taken his side, so this support by “the masses” as Z said is just a bit off.
@racerrodig.
Maybe he means by “the masks.” Even sundancecracker uses a handle. š
You have a very good point !! “I’d like to thank all the support from-the masks…” yep….That’s it….my bad!
LOL @racerrodig.
Thanks !! You know where I stand. Anytime I have the opportunity to have fun at their expense, I have no problem with that…..After all, they started it…….and by God….”we’ll” finish it.
I certainly enjoy your comments on HP, racer! Very humorous and irritates the Zimbots as a bonus.
Thank you !! Everyone on Team Trayvon is doing a great job.
That Zidiot “I Nailed It” said I am a coward by “hiding” behind a “glowing little screen” and supporting Trayvon.
This shows how truly stupid they are…..
To your comments and all encompassing….all of that couldn’t happen to a more deserving crew. Under normal circumstances, you hate to see anyone have bad things happen to them. But with this group…..not so much.
As I’ve said before, there is far more here than meets the eye. What are the chances of all of this bizarre happening around one person who tried to convince us it was just self defense while on the way to the store. I believe I stated this accurately in the past when I say “He was on his way to Target…..someone”
Yeah, but that claim of his and Tchoupi’s work on the cctv’s shows that a car coming down RVC west, in the proper time frame, passes the front gate. It goes over to TTL then loops back on RVC in front of the clubhouse, turns around and goes back to TTL, and stops facing the mailboxes. In time for the NEN call to be made.
So, if that’s GZ’s car, and there isn’t another choice to confuse it with, then GZ never was on any trip to the store. Because at the time he leaves home TM was already out of sight in the mail shed.
GZ would have simply seen nothing and continued on his way out the front gate. So, we now know that GZ was not on his way to the store, as you say he was on his way to Target… Trayvon.
Funny how he managed to get Trayvon’s middle name so fast for his facebook page, eh? “DatNiggyTB”? What’s up with that?
As far as “tb” he was told the night before by the police. He stated he found out Trayvon was dead at the police station and undoubtedly was told his name. There is no doubt Z was on the hunt and his shopping story is a crock. He had no wallet, no money and had $16.00 in the checking account. When one looks at the total bizarre & “…what are the chances of this…” factor, this is not what he says in any way, shape or form.
Hmmm… But the police say they didn’t learn who TM was until the next day when Tracy Martin called in a missing person? Is his time on this making sense?
He knew that night. In one of the interviews by his brother I believe, it was stated he was told during his police questioning at the police station.
I don’t think so, if I recall, TM was John Doe until Tracy Martin called in a missing person the next day. If GZ knew Trayvon’s name and middle initial before 2/27/12 ??:AM then he knew more than the police did, and that points to some real targeting, even before TM left for the store, perhaps even in the week before this happened.
You very well me correct, but he did for a fact have “datniggytb” on the 27th. That I do know. I”m sure I read that he was informed late that night.
I’m pretty certain that TM was still John Doe until sometime later that morning. Something is amiss here. Meaning that GZ is saying the police knew TM’s name before Tracy Martin called in. Uh oh! That’s going to get him first degree. Because it mean he knew who Travyon was before he even left home. This needs to be checked and cross checked. If true GZ is really toast!
I have a connection in LE. My sons godfather and his previous partner are involved in the Federal investigation aspect. I am not at liberty to reveal everything I know most of the time. I am trusted to reveal things and I know you can read between the lines.
Trust me…….Z knew before Trayvon’s dad….That much I can say. No matter what, it is documented Z had the “datniggytb” on his FB page before noon 2/27. If we argue that, Zidiocy has rubbed off. I will believe the evidence above any story. It is also documented that the 1st time that is mentioned is 2/27/12. No matter what his 2 watt brother says about that being a weight reference, it ain’t !!
I’m trying not to jump to contusions š
But seriously, I can easily believe that GZ knew either TM or his father, and perhaps Ms Greene. After all, Trayvon had been to this neighborhood several times before, and this was the 6th day of this visit. So, for GZ patrolling the nabe, it would, indeed, be highly unusual for GZ not to know these people. Most especially a black kid who used the cut through short cut near FT’s place, probably on more than one occasion.
GZ is such a creepy guy, it’s easy to imagine that he and Tracy, or Ms Greene or even Travyon himself, had some kind of interaction with either GZ or FT, or maybe even Osterman, whose Lake Mary community seems to be more accessible to RTL’s rear gate than the front gate.
That makes MO’s appearance at the MI bank, just more game playing. While keeping an eye on Rinehart road, he’d need an excuse for being seen there, just in case he was. So a trip to the ATM would be just the thing to explain why he was on location.
The trouble is, if TM used the northern most cut through, by the time Osterman sees him, TM would be in the mail shed in less than one minute. But, if TM left Rinehart earlier, as he would to pass by the apartment awnings, to stay close to places where he could shelter if the rain got too heavy, Osterman might easily miss him returning at all. In that case Osterman would wait a reasonable length of time, then drive on into RTL and search for TM.
Or, FT could have picked up TM, but again, by that time TM is less than 2 minutes from the mail shed. This is the most likely scenario, in my opinion, because it explains why GZ would fabricate spotting TM by FT’s cut through himself. Osterman was outside RTL and had failed to spot TM’s return, but he knew it shouldn’t take more than 10 minutes or so. So, after that time he simply drives on into RTL. He would know to stay off the phone and away from GZ during this time, because he doesn’t want anyone seeing him as involved at all. Even if there was no murder planned, he’d know that GZ hasn’t the authority to detain anyone, and that if GZ pulled his gun for any reason, it would be another crime that would have to be covered up. He didn’t want to be a part of anything that required covering up, because he can’t know how it would eventually work out. Better safe than sorry.
Of course, walkie talkies would allow them to communicate without being traced. They’re available at Wally World for just a few bucks with 5 mile range. One for FT, one for GZ and one for MO and they’re all set to do secret patrols. But they have to leave them in their vehicles or risk having them discovered. Once out of their vehicles, they’d have to rely on signaling by flashlight. Small flashlights make great little beacons. They can’t illuminate much, but they can clearly be seen from some distances.
Well, I’m just hashing around how a scenario, that fits Tchoupi’s work, might go. I’ll have to have another look at it, I think he’s been updating it since I last looked.
You stated……………..
“…..Osterman might easily miss him returning at all. In that case Osterman would wait a reasonable length of time, then drive on into RTL and search for TM. Or, FT could have picked up TM, but again, by that time TM is less than 2 minutes from the mail shed. This is the most likely scenario, in my opinion, because it explains why GZ would fabricate spotting TM by FT’s cut through himself. Osterman was outside RTL and had failed to spot TM’s return…”
The consensus by my connections is that Taaffe spotted Trayvon coming in through the trellis garden. I find this the most plausible as have you and that is what I have though from early on. There is a time line animation on youtube that demonstrates this. He uses the known calls, the 7 – 11 video, the weather and the NEN call. It all lines up within seconds.
Despite it being in “real time” and is in 3 long parts, it shows what most likely happened. It appears Trayvon stopped under the apt building overhang when the rain got real heavy for a few minutes which explains the amount of time from 7 – 11 to RTL. He walked right past Taaffe’s windows who then called Z. Z leaps into action and forgets his wallet & money, but not old “Kel-TeK” The rest you have…..
I have been told that the chit will hit the fan when the phone records are released……..Anyone care to bet against that…..
Anyone care to bet against the phone records causing Moron
O’ Mara to chase the insignificant looking for anything to divert attention to the reality.
Any takers there are several calls in this order
Osterman calling Z I’m in the area
Z calling Taaffe What’s going on
Taaffe calling Z Some thug just walked past my window…..
(Z now on the move)
Z calling Osterman Somethings gonna happen
Taaffe calling Z He’s over there……..
Z back to Taaffe Not anymore…….
Taaffe back to Z Now he’s at the clubhouse
Z at the clubhouse……CCTV
Z back to Taaffe I’m at the back & he’s not here
Taaffe to Z I’m herding him back your way
Z to Osterman I’m making this happen
Z back to Taaffe I’m calling NEN……Taaffe joins Z in his
truck NEN call made
Z calls Officer Smith I’m at (XXXX) on the back entrance street
I may have one out of order, but I made my bet to one who knows and I was told “Bet the Farm racer…”
I tend to look at “the way” and not just “the what.” The way the prosecution is basically working in a confidant manner means to me, they have all their ducks lined up. I know for fact, there is more to come. O’ Mara, is playing games, because he has no defense.
@Racer
Let me know if this some what fits with what your people are “suggesting”. Without revealing what you know or what was said to you by your contacts. I have been working on the 7-11 video and EPH video. The people we are talking about are “captured in those videos”. Am I hot or cold? ; ^ )
Hmmmmm….if you need a job as an investigator based on your post, all I can say is……..You can start on Monday.
Thank you for your kind reply. I will keep digging at it.
: ^ ))))
Keep me informed…….But I can’t wait for the phone records.
The fact that they are sealed in and of itself proves they are very damning…………and I’m damn glad of it !!
Read in Scotty’s voice from Star Trek:
I’m Giving It All She’s Got, Captain!
I love it…..Full steam ahead..
I have suspected for a long time that the phone records would show a sequence of calls much as you have described.
But Lonnie Starr has TM under the awning at the mailboxes hanging out and talking to Dee Dee for about 15 minutes before Zimmerman leaves his house to go looking for him.
The times we have for certain are:
1. 6:38 p.m. The M&I Bank video showing a man who might be Osterman. Trayvon leaves the 7-Eleven about the same time.
2. 6:54 p.m. DeeDee calls Trayvon and he tells her that he is in the mail shed, and a creepy guy in a car was following him.
3. 7:09 p.m. GZ makes his NEN call.
Here’s my time line again, I’ll be adding to it as I find things to include that are verified. Note that TM starts walking back home at 6:29:19 some ~5 minutes after he leaves the store.
—————————-
—————————-
5:09:– Trayvon makes call lasting 81 minutes, ends at 6:30
====================================
6:05:– Trayvon leaves home for store. (est. ~16m_walk)
6:21:54 Trayvon is seen outside the store traveling
from the East to the West to enter 7 Eleven
6:24:32 Two minutes later Trayvon leaves the store
but is not seen outside heading back East
6:29:19 Trayvon is seen outside heading back East
6:30:– Trayvon’s 5:09 call ends
6:30:– Trayvon makes call lasting 13 minutes. ends 6:43
6:38:– Is that Mark Osterman at the M&I bank? SP has
taken the video into evidence.
6:41:– Incoming call lasting 4 minutes ends at 6:45
6:42:19 approx. At mailboxes: ~3452 feet from
711 @ 4.4ft/sec. 13min. (this is a “guesstimate”
based on several factors:
1. Had he run he needed only approx. 7min.30sec.
2. He was being hustled along by an increasing rain.
Rain fall: 6:42 — 0.03
6:47 — 0.04
6:52 — 0.04 (see Tchoupi’s work)
6:43:– Trayvon’s 6:30 call ends
6:45:– Incoming 6:41 call ends
6:45:– Trayvon makes call lasting 5 minutes ends at 6:50
6:46 :– Trayvon makes call lasting 2 minutes ends at 6:48
6:48:– 6:48 call ends
6:49:– Incoming call lasting 4 minutes ends at 6:53
6:50:– Trayvon’s 6:45 call ends.
6:54:– At mailboxes (est. 25 MIN WALKING AT
4.4ft/second = 6600 FEET
Trayvon needed only ~13:04 to reach the
mailboxes from 711.
Or eta of ~6:42:19 @4.4/ft/sec. walking speed.
6:54:– Incoming call lasting 18 minutes — ends 7:14:– ?
This puts him easily and securely at the RATL mailboxes by
6:54pm with ~564 feet remaining to home via the dog walk.
A 2 minute 8 seconds walk.
7:04:– Incoming call last 4 minutes ends 7:08
7:08:– 7:04 call ends
7:09:34 George calls NEN to report suspicious
person.
7:10:22 GZ: “Now he’s just staring at me!”
“It’s the clubhouse”
7:10:32 GZ: “Yeah, now he’s coming towards me”
7:10:37 GZ: “He’s got his hand in his waistband.:
7:10:55 GZ: “Yup He’s coming to check me out”
7:11:41 GZ: “SH– He’s running”
7:11:51 Dispatch: “Are you following him?”
7:11:59 GZ: “Yeah!”
7:11:59 Dispatch: “Ok, we don’t need you to do that!”
7:12:02 GZ: “Okay!”
7:12:08 Dispatch: “What is your name?”
7:12:– TM receives call.
Phone records show this call ended at 7:16 p.m.
Police arrived roughly a minute later.
7:12:– TM tells DD man following, puts hoodie up.
7:12:10 GZ: “George… He ran!”
7:12:52 Dispatch: “What address are you parked in front of?”
7:12:56 GZ: ” Um, I don’t know, it’s a cut through…”
7:13:13 Dispatch: “Okay do you want to just meet with
them right near the mailboxes then?”
7:13:16 GZ: “Yeah that’s fine!”
7:13:20 Dispatch: “Alright George, I’ll let them know to
meet you around there, okay?”
7:13:22 GZ: “Acutally could you have them , could you
have them call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at?”
7:13:25 Dispatch: “Okay, yeah that’s no problem.”
7:13:37 Dispatch: “You’re welcome!”
7:13:39 GZ ends NEN call
7:14:– TM’s 6:54 call ends
——end———
Please copy and save this timeline, notify me of any discrepancies, I’ve tried to faithfully collect the points using TM’s phone records and the NEN call records. Also feel free to add important points missing and post it back so I can add them.
Having a template to work with is one of the only ways to see the artifacts clearly.
@Lonnie Starr. I don’t see anything wrong with the timeline you put together, although I admit that I’m not technical when it comes to calculating walking times. My concentration has been on the times involving GZ’s NEN call, when Trayvon received DeeDee’s calls, and when the first 911 call from a resident was made. Oh — include with that the M&I Bank vid.
Have you seen the maps of the estate? I’ve got that and more in my little evidence dump [http://tinyurl.com/d4x2y6b] you can go there and fish around. I’ve got links to most of the major document sites and recordings, other blogs and such. Makes it a handy resource once you know your way around it. I was thinking of changing the order around to make it more orderly, but then there’s quite a few people who know where to find what they’re looking for, so that wouldn’t be the case if I started changing things around, so I just keep adding to it when I come across something new or interesting.
There’s also some of the early animated timelines, created before the evidence dumps. Pity they’re not doing more updated timelines.
Yes! And I so appreciate them and it is also my appreciation to know that people work on this as a team. My problem Lonnie, is that being a listener, my comprehension of technical showings is helped when combined with spoken verbiage. I’m one of those persons who can be blindfolded in my own backyard, turned around in circles several times, take the blindfold off and won’t be able to tell you east from west. If you’re talking while turning me around however, I can repeat everything you said, detect changes in voice tone, hesitations, and tenses.
I can analyze everything that GZ, witnesses, and everyone else has stated, but leave the technical stuff to those with the experience and talent to break-it down.
I could get lost in a circle, but I can recall word for word, and how it was said about something that happened a year ago.
I understand. There are consulting firms that test job applicants for personality traits and such. That can be important when the company is building a team. Not everyone has the same talents and qualities. Just imagine what it takes to design an automobile, for instance. Not everyone is an engineer. Consumer consultants are also involved, or we would still have cars with suicide doors, high beam buttons on the floor and only AM radio.
; ^ ))
The pieces are falling together but none of us has a video of everything. If we knew exactly how long Trayvon was under the apt overhang or at the mailbox shed……..well…… I think over the next few months there will be more concrete info. I do believe we see what happened however.
Look at what the misalignment of the garment bullet holes and entry wound showed. That alone gives one a strong visual.
I still go back to these things….Z never thought this would get past the “….wow George, the the hero solving all those crimes. Here’s the keys to the city and the parade in your honor will be next Sunday”
&
Just when we think we have seen as much bizarre as could possible be, one of them does another interview !!
When the Tate / LaBianca murders happened, I was 13 at the time, nobody, and I mean NOBODY, would have dreamed a 5 foot nothing pile of human slim like Charles Manson, a pure nothing, could be responsible…….and the motive, which he admitted…from a Beatles Album…..
How many crimes do we see where it is exactly like it looked at face value from the jump…….virtually never.
Yes Professor here’s my take again:
6:29:19 Trayvon is seen outside 711 heading back East.
So the video locks that point down solidly. What’s left is speculation, but within a reasonable variation.
—————————————————–
mailboxes:
~3452 feet from 711 @ 4.4ft/sec. 13min.
(this is a “guesstimate” based on several factors:
1. Had he run he needed only approx. 7min.30sec to 8:50
2. He was being hustled along by an increasing rain.
Rain fall:
6:42 — 0.03
6:47 — 0.04
6:52 — 0.04 (see Tchoupi’s work)
3. Adjusting for which entry point TM used could add as much
as 400 feet or any where from 40seconds to 1 minute 20 seconds difference. (see LLMpapa’s video work on youtube)
——————————————————
In the overall, it’s a 13 minute trip from 711 to the mailboxes, maybe 14 minutes if he comes by way of the apartments where he can shelter, in case the rain catches him.
4.4ft/sec is a relaxed walk. A brisk walk would be faster, while a jog would be faster still. 13 minutes is 780 seconds. TM probably would not jog while talking on the phone so a brisk walk seems more likely. perhaps 6.2 ft/sec or 9 minutes 12 seconds for the trip.
So for the longest route add a 1:20 or 10minutes 32 seconds.
It matters little, TM is easily under the mail shed by 6:39:41 any way you slice it. Unless he breaks an ankle or gets hit by a car.
—————————————————–
Btw: I don’t like using RTL, RATL is much better for a community that did not come to the aid of a teen screaming for help, and that put up with obnoxious NW patrols by drunks and troublemakers.
So, forgive me but I’ll be using RATL from here on.
RATL it is.
@Race: I just got chills reading your post, and a chill went down my back. That IS what transpired. I always thought that Frank Taafee was involved and that he was the one who approached TM. I can definitely believe that FT called GZ and that MO who was in the area, was around as well. Remember one of the witnesses heard angry out back. The phone records have been sealed until the trial, and I cannot wait to see what transpires. Is FT being investigated do you know?
The more we learn, the more sickening it becomes. Now imagine that this is not the only case. What scares me is the Zidiot Nation out there. The hate they openly spew in the 21st Century.
“Is FT being investigated do you know?”
Lets just say………he’s not being ignored.
NLME on Bcclist.com thinks that they may have used cb radios, to make untraceable communications, while I would have thought that with FT in foreclosure GZ being broke, and MO, the only one doing better, they’d probably select Wally Worlds cheap 5 mile radius walkie-talkies. Of course that does not preclude them being stupid enough to use their cell phones instead.
Looks to me that the small flashlight GZ dropped at the T, was used as a beacon to let someone at the south end of the path, know his location. After that it’s no longer needed so he drops it near the T.
It’s hard to figure out what TM means when he says “he’s behind me again”, because we don’t know which way TM was either facing or going. Also we still don’t know how TM is to access/enter the house. Is it by key pad code entry, if so is there a key pad at the back or only in front? Or does he have to wait for Chad to let him in?
Could he have left an entrance way slightly ajar?
Even so, there’s a very real question weather he would enter the house, knowing there was some stranger of uncertain purpose behind him.
Yep….the judge just threw them a few cookies so they can’t complain to much and appeal at will.
Yes !! Yes !! Yes !! Thank you for reminding me…..I feel the fool. Please accept my most humble apology. Yes, you did slap the Zidiots on some topics, and as I recall, had my back a few times.
Take care and at least there is sanity here !!
That I don’t know. Did I mistype something or is this something I have missed.
@Checker
:>>Do you realize Z made fun of Trayvon by reference to “Datniggytb” on his facebook page the day after he committed murder. Are you aware the entire Zidiot Nation of blatant racists does everything in it’s power to insult and bully everyone on Team Trayvon. How about the gun targets of Trayvon’s hoodie image ?? forget about that one……I didn’t. As DG-M stated, Z and SheLie made sick comments about wearing a hoodie coming out of jail. Forget….Not I !! I could go on and on…..Z gets 0 respect and anyone who has fun at his or the Zidiot Nation’s expense is justified.
I agree with you 100%. Hurting the feelings of little Georgie? BS! GZ and his ignorant wife, made reference to the hoodie that TM wore the night that he shot him. G made statements over the phone that he would, “leave jail in when he paid his bai in a black hoodie.” I couldn’t believe how ignorant, childish, crass, and contemptible the two of these people are. GZ has no remorse for anyone. He didn’t care how his words would hurt the Martin family. He is devoid of all emotion. He thinks this is a big joke and that is going to get out of this mess, just like his father tried to make it “GO AWAY.” GZ also referenced “Datniggytb” on his Facebook page as well, and GZ also disparaged Mexicans as well.
(Why isn’t the DA able to show that at is trial?) Racists have posted what they think is the Martin family history on HP making it seem like Mr. Martin is a man who has children all over the place with many wives and girlfriends. Racists had a fit when Sybrina’s co-workers gave up their vacation time to Sybrina so she could take a leave of absence to tend to the business of her son receiving justice. They question the parenting skills of Sybrina and Tracy and blame them for what transpired with TM and GZ even though we here all know that none of the ignorant nonsense that they spew is true but just distractions. So, if I or anyone else make a reference to the size of GZ, how terrible he looks (and he does), I am not apologizing for it. He has caused so much hurt and paind to so many people and he is still lying. I do not feel the least bit sorry for him or his family. He is alive and well and not 6 feet below ground like TM is.
Thank you….your response is well stated. I know what I am and where I stand and my maturity level and so forth. If I make comments like “Z married Miss Piggy” and the Zidiots have an issue with that I couldn’t care less. As I said. look at what they say.
LMAO is it true that Robert Zimmerman Sr. asked the detectives to “make it go away”?
Because that is not the only statement he has made that can bury Z
I don’t think any third-party’s statement can bury Z unless, of course, some third party comes forward and says: “On February 17, he and I discussed his problems with the NW and he said it was necessary for him to go kill a Black Thug or he wouldn’t be able to get them to hire him as the RTL Security Officer.”
Anything a third party has said to the press or to anyone else about it otherwise seems to me to be relatively evidence-free. Like the idea that DeeDee asked BDLR if he wanted her to embellish her story — that doesn’t prove anything either. Only evidence of what happened between 6 pm and 8 pm that night can really prove that George committed murder.
Other things can prove other crimes, of course, but those are mostly the ones that the feds are investigating and they are not issuing press statements — hence O’Mara’s discomfort. I think things look worse for George’s chances in general if there were a half dozen crimes committed AFTER the murder to shield him from the consequences of what he did.
When did she say that? Do you have the time, because I dont remember hearing that. All I heard was Bernie asking questions and she answered them
She said something like “I’ll say that if you want me to.”
At the end of the brief, polite interview, one cop asked Senior, “Is there anything else you want to tell us?” and Senior answered, “Not unless you can make this go away…” as if he was expecting one of them to say, “Mr. Zimmerman, if you tell us this and that and thus and so, then we’ll be able to make it go away, but…”
One time my litigious ex-husband kept calling the prosecutor in a county that we had nothing to do with. He had been told apparently that he might be able to get HER to draw a warrant for my arrest without having any evidence of a crime. She admitted to me, sitting across the desk from her in her office years later, that she remembered all his calls. She said there were three or more calls. She was sure the minimum number of calls was three because she remembered three things that he had changed about his story from call to call. She said he called her office first time, asking if he could get a warrant if situation “a b c” had occurred. She said no. He called back, she said, a few days later, and asked, “would it be a crime if d, e, f happened?” She said no it would not. The third call, she said, was along the lines of, “would it be a crime if my wife did g, h, i, j or maybe k, or maybe you could tell me which things WOULD make that a crime?”
In other words, he wanted some guidance as to what to lie about.
The really bizarre part of this story is that a warrant was drawn, eventually, and this same prosecutor had to withdraw it because it was fraudulent. But guess how it got drawn? A VIRGINIA MAGISTRATE, doing the same job Robert Zimmerman Senior did in Virginia, eventually drew a warrant for a felony using the facts that my ex-husband had already run past the prosecutor in his fishing expedition looking for what would constitute a crime!
In other words, Robert Zimmerman Sr. knew that if he was sitting there in Virginia with a law enforcement officer, he might be able to get them to help him make up something to give him some benefit in the court system, so he was down there in Florida, trying to use the same technique to get some help. He was actually saying to the LEOs who interviewed him, “OK, Guys, tell me what I’m supposed to say.”
This is what George might have done on 2/26/2012 in the station house. He might have said to Smith and maybe others (or had Osterman chit chat with them before he was ready): OK guys, tell me what I have to say to get out of this.
I will say that having had experience with the Virginia criminal justice system would give both Zimmermans the idea that the way to handle a problem is to find out which corrupt officials will work with you, and then to do whatever they suggest. Child’s play. AND not unlike what George undoubtedly did throughout his childhood in his home, family, school, and environment.
The thing is Robert Sr lying like that is going to bring into question any of his doings as a magistrate now.
& if Smith told GZ to tell that story, Smith really screwed Zimmerman there LOL because the tale of a deadly 100 pound kid with skittles and ice tea is really hard to believe, especially since Zimmerman was the grown adult that was heavier by a lot and had a gun and was stalking and chasing a kid
But I honestly think Zimmerman came up with the story all by himself
I am starting to think he made all those phony twitter and internet pics because they were so obviously not Trayvon Martin
LMAO I cant wait till trial because that is an excited utterance by the father
āNot unless you can make this go awayā¦ā Like he was “joking” or something. But in his position, he should know better than to “joke” like that. Ughhhh
I think RZ Sr was looking for suggestions to “make this go away” in a “joking” manner but he was serious about getting suggestions on how to make it go away.
Yeah, that’s what I mean. It was no “joke” even though said in a “joking” manner. Again, you would think someone in his position would know how something said in a “joking” manner could be “misconstrued.” cough cough.
I mean just try “joking” with a TSA agent – and in this case I do mean joking – see what happens. There are some things you just do not say, even if it is a “joke.” Unless, of course, it isn’t a joke.
@Jun.
Well, his actual words were “Make all this end.” Sorry, I misspoke — but it does mean the same.
You can hear his interview with the investigators at the following:
Thank you LLMPapa. You are so-o-o right!
Did you notice him texting after the judge left. It seemed as though his lawyers were ignoring him as he sat alone and very lonely. Seemed to me he was having trouble staying awake.
Bravo! INSPIRED! (I guessed that George was trying to avoid having facial expressions because he knew he would become an instant star at LLMPapa’s theater!)
Can you find the part where he rolled his eyes? That’s got to be gorgeous! š
Love the irony.
Absolutely hilarious, Papa.
What a treat.
“In an emergency motion for protective order, defense attorney Mark OāMara revealed after a Sanford police officer stated in his deposition yesterday that several officers felt there wasn’t enough evidence to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter. He was eventually charged with second-degree murder after a special prosecutor was appointed by Gov. Rick Scott.”
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Motion-Officer-reveals-surprise-about-colleague-seeking-manslaughter-for-Zimmerman/-/1637132/17052764/-/597naj/-/index.html
What “several officers” participated in interrogating GZ? MOM makes it sound as though the entire SPD police force interrogated GZ and investigated to reach a “not enough evidence” decision.
Maybe he should be reminded that the lack of investigation by the SPD is what led to the case being given to a special prosecutor for investigation. Charges were not brought against GZ until AFTER there was an investigation.
Labs were not conducted until after a special investigator was appointed.
The 7-Eleven, clubhouse, and M&I Bank vids were not obtained until after a special investigator was appointed.
Makes me wonder if MOM is trying to save the SPD from embarrassment or charges of corruption.
So far, it looks as though there is an effort to hide something to do with the corruption in the SPD (maybe more). I am not a lawyer. But, there seems to be alot of interest in what the DOJ and FBI has. Maybe OMara wants to see how far he needs to go with the botched investigation.
MOM’s emergency motion for a protective order contains misrepresentations and is circular. GZ was not charged because the SPD failed to investigate. I anxiously await the State’s response.
Yes, MOM is trying a backdoor approach to get whatever info the DOJ and FBI have on their investigation, but he won’t get as much as a blank piece of paper from them. Well, maybe a letter saying why they are not required to provide discovery before the federal grand jury convenes.
I thought it was very funny when O’Mara started to complain that he had asked for the FBI file and gotten only 54 pages. He started to carry on about how the FBI churns out so much paper, implicating the FBI in hiding stuff from him (oh no, not that!) and so forth, and when he stumbled, saying words to the effect of “The FBI would generate 54 pages to investigate a…a…a…” I wanted to jump in and help him out because I felt sorry for him that he couldn’t think of the next word in his stand-up comedy act, and I was shouting at the TV screen, “Hang-nail, idiot!” but he couldn’t hear me. It makes me laugh. Did he expect Nelson to issue an order? Can you just see the order?
WHEREAS the defense has correctly pointed out that 54 pages is a transparently inadequate response to the demand for production and
WHEREAS it is common knowledge that the FBI generates 54 pages in the investigation of a hang-nail and
WHEREAS this Court will no longer tolerate the railroading of an innocent white Hispanic who was only defending his watermelon head against the depredations of a no-limit-nigga-thug
it is hereby ORDERED, ADJUDGED and DECREED that the FBI
give this guy more stuff and I mean FORTHWITH.
E N T E R : [date stamp] [JUDGE] [AND I MEAN IT ā ]
Of course O’Mara is trying to save SPD. Also, he’s trying to use his position as defense counsel to get the FBI records so he can provide the cops with more intelligence on how vulnerable they are to getting hurt in the federal investigation of what went on. In a situation where someone as seriously hurt or killed someone else and the public agencies (police or other agencies) have helped the guilty party, ALL the agency personnel and the private lawyers work together to exonerate the officials involved. If they have to heap more abuse upon the victim in order to do so, no prob, no prob at all, homie.
I used to work an evening shift. Late one night, on my walk home in the downtown neighbourhood where I lived, I heard someone sobbing in a back lane. I came upon a woman crouched up against the back of a building in the lane. She told me she had gotten her welfare cheque that day. Instead of paying her rent, she spent the money on drugs and got high. Someone reported her erratic behaviour on the street and an ambulance was despatched. The two paramedics placed her in the ambulance and off they went. The woman told me that these paramedics dumped her off in the lane after having raped her. I told her to come with me to report this and she refused. I asked her why and she said — I am a cocaine addict on welfare —- who would believe me. And, you know, she was right. She was a victim of a rape who would never be believed because of her life-style and accepted it for what it was. Did she deserve to be raped. No — we have two paramedics that took advantage of a drugged woman and will or have probably done it before. Moral of the story — to be deemed a victim — your school records, your conversations, your lifestyle will be questioned and you had better be squeaky clean.
This is so sad.
I would have brought her to the authorities anyways. There have been many cases where the defendant has tried the “she’s a whore and deserves it” defense, but it working in court has no bearing, and it is even worse that they took advantage after she was high.
It actually is not always a person’s fault of their drug addiction. This may shock some but it is a practice of some pimps to find vulnerable girls, rape them, forcefully drug them up, and then sell them on the street and give them smack. A lot of these types of pimps will take advantage of immigrants who may not have knowledge of this country.
I think Zimmerman is starting to realize that he will be the sacrificial lamb in this case. The DOJ and FBI have bigger fish to fry and if he goes to jail — the rest will all be covered up, never to see the light of day. Even if he wants a plea – the state will never offer one.
I don’t consider him a sacrificial lamb. He killed somebody. It’s his own fault he’s in this situation now. The fact that he can no longer get everyone else to endanger their own lives for him is returning him to a place no farther from “the good life” than he would have been if he had simply been arrested for the crime he committed on 2/26/2012 without causing a national scandal to get the justice system back on track. He will be thrown under the bus he was inappropriately (and probably illegally) rescued from when he threw himself under the bus on 2/26/2012. It is a bus that was travling FAR FROM HIM when he, for his own very bad reasons, forced it to detour and to run over and kill an innocent kid. Then he wanted the bus to travel on without him — and that’s not happening. (Damn, this has been a difficult metaphor to conquer!)
Call me sadistic but I’d want to give him as much prison time as possible. Its not really a sacrificial lamb per se… he’s just a guy who stalked and killed a kid because he thinks all black kids are no good, especially if they have skittles and ice tea
Does anyone on this blog – besides me – have any concerns about a defence attorney can subpoena someones social media accounts – including witnesses.Let us go beyond this case. A defence can interpret things that you have said or done on your social media accounts as a witness. I don’t know about anyone else here, this to me is witness intimidation and the implications are vast. Good luck getting witnesses. If there is one witness to a brutal murder and this witness spent time in prison — will the defence claim that this one witness should not be trusted. Cmon everyone. George Zimmerman is a nobody and because of the media attention, the defence is going to try and go beyond the small scope of this case – two people, one murdered, murderer lies, murderer goes to jail. Do not let this defence attorney set any precedence to gain fame and fortune like the lawyer who successfully introduced DNA into a case. This social media stuff should not be introduced as a ploy by a defence to discredit a victim or a witness. It does not matter what is gleaned from Trayvon’s history – he is a victim and the evidence, proves it. This is NOT the crime of the century folks.
The danger that I see in examining a victim’s social media in a case where the defendant claims self-defense, is that any person can get into a fight, leave their house, kill someone who is minding their own business, and then claim self-defense, blaming them for the little boo-boo’s they got in the fight.
In effort to prove they were violently attacked and placed in fear for their life, they subpoena the victim’s social media. It could be a person out of the pen for 3 mths after serving time for assault. That doesn’t mean that they laid a hand on the accused.
Here, the forensics are against GZ’s story — a story that requires Trayvon to be a mind-reader and know that GZ would follow him on foot, the exact path that GZ would take, and be able to render himself invisible until after GZ walked by.
Exactly true. But — this judge is going to allow social media information in — on a witness. He also wants addresses — of witnesses. If this isn’t witness intimidation — what is. Sequestering witnesses. Is the defense, knowing that the world is watching putting a warning to all witnesses, not just in this case — you had better be a clean-livin, church goin person or your life will be examined to see if you can be believed.
@grahase.
Think of it this way — Judge Nelson might already know that MOM will never get anything from FB and Twitter. They are international companies that operate under federal law. They have policies and procedures for honoring subpoenas, and MOM’s does not meet their requirements.
That is standard procedure, but at deposition. What I found interesting was their reason for wanting the addresses before deposition — addresses for Trayvon’s parents and DeeDee — to investigate them and then question them at deposition about their investigation, rather than about their knowledge of Trayvon or what happened on Judge Nelson was wise. She would not enter in the order that they could return after deposition and said along the lines that they can wait.
Of course it’s witness intimidation. Judge Nelson was wise in denying the sequestering of witnesses. They just can’t do that. Attorneys always talk with people before deposition to let them know what to expect and give them confidence that they are not going to allow the other attorney to railroad them.
Even then, an attorney can ask how long you’ve attended church and then present to the jury at closing statement that it wasn’t long enough to learn to be a good Christian.
IMO, if MOM and West demean witnesses, they are going to lose the jury.
Thank you Xena – After watching the hearing this afternoon, I was just freaking. OMara seems to have a habit of just plopping things for the judge without the prosecution having yet seen it. Looks to me like he is a pretty sleazy lawyer already. A lawyer who can not depend on his own skills to win the day and resorts to playing games and underhandedness. Thanks again.
That is one reason I so appreciate the Professor having this blog. The Zidiots who have no knowledge of legal procedure seem to think that the hearing was a win for GZ. It is not.
Since MOM motioned to recuse Judge Lester, everything — everything he has filed was first schemed on the treehouse site. He is playing to GZ’s supporters but hey — they have promised to pay his bill so why not entertain them?
I didnt watch the whole hearing. So I am guessing Nelson gave a stop light on the witnesses personal information? Also I know facebook is going to fight Zimmerman but is Twitter going to do the same procedure? Also how exactly are they going to authenticate each tweet? We are talking about an age of faking profiles and hacking profiles to post false information (as already done by the Treehouse people). Souljah Boy had his twitter hacked and people tweeted homophobic messages. I think that is the main problem with those twitter things is authenticating everything.
Of course, the attorneys for FaceBook and Twitter will be the ones to handle this issue and they are undoubtedly GOING TO handle it.
There is a GIANT leap between “He twittered that his girlfriend’s father really made him mad and he felt like giving the guy a punch in the nose” and “He was a thug who punched George Zimmerman in the nose (without getting any of George’s nose-blood or DNA on his hands or clothing) on 2/26/2012,” of course. No criminal court in the country could let ANYBODY go from “there is anecdotal evidence that Trayvon once watched a TV program that showed a Black guy killing a white guy” to “Trayvon Martin deprived George Zimmerman of his constitutional right to stand up vertically on 2/26/2012 and he would have killed him and called him homie again if George hadn’t shot him through the heart.”
These are things that O’Mara is hoping to use strategically to better his posture in the case. The problem is that he will get a small number of people making a huge noise about the terrible Black thug and blah blah blah and he will simultaneously get the largest number of Americans quietly thinking, “This is some dumb bullshit; if you go kill some kid for nothing you don’t get to say it was self-defense because he didn’t return his library book in high school.”
Neither George NOR O’Mara is making this ULTIMATELY any easier for George. What they’re doing is what addicts always want their suppliers to do: “Gimme something to help me get through this RIGHT NOW.”
It just occurred to me. Judge Nelson said something extremely significant today and I didn’t take note when I heard it. Remember O’Mara said, right after recusing Lester, that he was going to refile all the motions he had made in front of Lester? He had 30 days to do that and today, Judge Nelson said that Lester’s orders stood and that the time for appeal of those orders had passed. She called those orders the “law of the case” and abided by them. Nobody said a word about it. O’Mara sold us woof tickets. He did not refile a single motion that he had previously filed — not only did he have no basis for complaint against Judge Lester, but he knew it very well. He is doing theater and that’s all he has available to him TO do. The witnesses he is deposing can give him plenty of theater and he can file plenty of motions but in the end, what they have is what Galbraith said they have: “We have the shell casings, we have the victim’s body, and we have the shooter’s statements.” And O’Mara can’t un-ring any of those bells.
When I used to debate the Zidiots, they couldn’t see how profound Gilbreath’s testimony is.
Xena, very interesting. In divorce cases, you don’t have to prove anything; in fact it works better if you never even set OUT to prove anything. You just throw impressions around. False impressions are just as good as true impressions, in fact, usually better if your judge is a swinger. O’Mara seems to be handling this case, so far, like a divorce. “Who was right and who was wrong, Your Honor, my wonderful client or that MMA-involved thug?”
But Trayvon never signed on for a relationship of any kind with his killer. He was walking in the rain and George chose to eclipse his life and make him an actor in George’s self-aggrandizing hero biography. In fact, I didn’t go far enough. George doesn’t see himself as a little hero; he sees himself as a little god.
Divorce court and he said/she said and who’s worser and who makes us feel more “law and ordery” — all that — won’t play in this here theater. I think Nelson will make sure her three-act play doesn’t turn into a three-ring circus. There will be a real hearing and a real trial and if O’Mara can’t manage that, based on the laws of evidence and so forth, then he’ll have to force his unwilling and unthinking client to plead out. And then the Zimbots can cry “unfair!” for years while the appeals drag on and on and on…
Yes, and it can be deeper than that. Family court also includes paternity, child support, child custody and spousal support issues. Clients can be impatience on these matters and attorneys can go before the court for temporary orders. Today as I watched MOM argue his emergency motion, it reminded me of family court when attorneys seek temporary orders on emergency motions and ambush the other side.
Hypothetically, It goes like this;
MOM: Your honor, my client wants to abate his spousal support for at least 3 months because there are income taxes that if he does not pay, he will be in trouble with the IRS and interest will accrue. The plaintiff claimed the children on her income taxes although she had no legal right to do so. My client also claimed them, but he is stuck with the bill.
(Client whispers to her legal counsel. I haven’t claimed the children for the year since we separated.)
Unless her legal counsel realizes it’s an ambush — BAM! MOM has placed the plaintiff on defense and her counsel begins to defend against the misrepresentation and the judge is now hearing the emergency motion — the emergency motion that the plaintiff’s counsel has not read and has no evidence available to prove what his client just told him.
Xena, you are gifted and brilliant and I thank you for this example; I could not have come up with it. I have been personally involved in trying to help people cope with this kind of court-abuse in family law cases for over 20 years (257 cases) and although I did know what I was talking about, I wouldn’t have been able to pick out an example that showed it in a two-minute read, as you have done. Thank you! š
@Malisha.
No, thank you. There’s no “i” in the word “team.”
Remember Persian Gulf I? It’s pretty much the same type of method used there; i.e., find what weapons your enemy has and destroy their ammunition. No ammunition, the enemy’s weapons are useless. When a party’s ammunition is ambush, don’t take the bait. It renders their weapon ineffective, at least for a time until you get your own weapons loaded.
if Z pleads out there will be no appeals except in the tree house.
But I have seen both appeals and habeas corpus actions based on the idea that the defendant pled because he was in a diminished capacity due to his fear of a “public lynching”; due to a Sixth Amendment claim of “ineffective assistance of counsel”; due to intimidation (here come the “I said it because of the death threats”) and all kinds of other idiotic crap. I have EVEN seen a couple of habeas corpus proceedings where I AGREED that the guilty plea was bogus and should have been overturned. Anything can happen; our system is really REALLY — really not — um, how should I say this — oh well, let’s say there’s a systemic problem.
It was interesting that the cameras tended to get on Z’s face and stay there, unmoving, unmoved, heavy as a cast iron sewer cover. They had to have varius cameras all over the courtroom. But often, they would just land on full-face Zimmerman, and it began to look like one of LLMPapa’s videos, but without the little letters popping up and without the good music. Just dead on emotionless staring expression. buried in that calloused soulless visage. Reminded me of the two theater masks in the latest LLMPapa flick. Same lifeless look. No signs of life.
He doesnt look as confident as before, thats my impression of him. He’s also gotten really fat and looks like crap. He looks screwfaced and perhaps is practicing for prison, his mean mug face (which will work until the other inmates realize he’s a coward)
GZ is worried, angry and does not have his BBF to talk with about what he should do. When things start going bad, they go bad everywhere, and that includes his marriage and his brother who has actually embarrassed the family more than helped GZ. It’s in GZ’s stars.
The State has named Taaffe and Osterman as witnesses. GZ cannot communicate with them. He is lonely without his buds, receives an allowance, is probably eating pizza for breakfast, lunch and dinner, and not sleeping due to reading the treehouse for advice on how to convince the State to dismiss charges — and it ain’t working.
I just finished watching the hearing, and I agree with you that he is not so confident anymore. He truly looked like he doesn’t know what is going on. I think its hitting him that this is for real, and he can’t give his bullshit anymore. He wasn’t smirking this time around like he did in the Hannity interview. No smiles. Nada..Nor can I speak to the judge privately. The judge was excellent in the way she conducted the court.
It’s all God’s plan.
At times I get the feelings that O’Mara really does not believe in GZ’s innocence. He mentioned being accused of digging up stuff on Trayvon and countered that with GZ’s Constitutional rights to have a lawyer try his best. I have yet to hear O’Mara say that he really and honestly believes in GZ.
@diaryofasuccessfulloser – his job isn’t necessarily to believe GZ’s innocence. He is right about GZ’s constitutional rights.
His job is to provide a vigorous defense to ensure that GZ’s constitutional rights are not trampled and that he receives due process, regardless of his guilt or innocence.
I agree that is a defense lawyer’s only job and anything beyond that should be grounds for being disbarred or charged with a crime for obstructing justice.
I believe that an attorney can tell if his or her client is guilty of the crime they are being charge with almost immediately. He know that George committed this crime and he probably can’t stand George being that the man just don’t listen and wants to run the show. can you imagine what MOM is going through with George and his crazy family, that’s why he’s trying the case in the media because the George and the family have damaged the case beyond repair. Trying the case in the media is his only hopes at winning by maybe tainting the jury Poole
It depends. Just after MOM was hired by GZ, he said to the press that he was waiting for the evidence. Criminal defense lawyers have a hard job. They have to be honest with clients to let them know what evidence is against them, how the prosecutors can use it, and their options from there.
This is not a common criminal case. First, MOM represented that GZ stood his ground. He has since changed and is going for traditional self-defense. Effectively, when he took on the case, he took responsibility of the possibility of holding two trials.
The immunity hearing is held at the standard for civil trials. The problem as I see it for MOM, is that his experience in civil cases has been in family matters. That means mud slinging in matters involving equity. MOM might find out too late that the immunity hearing is not a trial of equity.
How does he find the dividing line between proving self-defense by a preponderance of the evidence, without also proving that GZ is guilty of 2nd degree murder?
Hi Professor – I just donated to your blog. I’m here everyday. I appreciate this site very much!!
Muchas Gracias.
About the MMA thing, it’s interesting now that O’Mara says he got “anecdotal” evidence that Trayvon was “involved” in MMA or “mixed martial arts.” Um…let’s just remember that the witness who used the term “punching him MMA style” later recanted and couldn’t seem to remember a single punch. Let’s also remember that that same witness knew George, was aligned with him from the beginning, and has a big stake in this whole thing going away. So the fact that he changed from “lots of punching MMA style” to “I didn’t see anything because it was dark” makes me wonder WHO first used the term “MMA” — like — um — was it maybe Osterman?
The inquiry about the “involvement” in MMA style fighting will go nowhere. After all, the state has more than anecdotal evidence that George Zimmerman was “involved in” shooting loaded guns and carrying them around on his person. We seem to be going back to the idea that any defense against George Zimmerman was per se unlawful and justified a killing.
The other interesting thing about the discovery is the following:
“In regards to the emergency motion, O’Mara said in the filing he that he learned during a recent deposition of police Sgt. Joseph Santiago that investigators held several meetings in the weeks after the shooting and reached a consensus that Zimmerman should not be charged with a crime. O’Mara contends that information was only learned through a question during the deposition of Santiago and that the state never disclosed the existence of the meetings or what was discussed during them.
“If all those witnesses had a similar opinion, I’m very concerned of what the basis for the prosecution is,” O’Mara said. “We certainly now have a lot more to look into. I didn’t know we’d be going down this path. Now it’s been opened up to us, we’re going to investigate it to wherever it leads us.”
Well Well. This sounds kind of like, “If SOME people thought he shouldn’t be arrested, how dare the specially appointed prosecutor come up with her own opinion on the matter. We prefer the other one, where he DOESN’T get prosecuted.”
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/10/19/new-motions-expected-in-trayvon-martin-case-defense-to-ask-for-more-witness/#ixzz29nNrPtOX
This may explain, however, why the defense team is so interested in getting DOJ’s records. They want to know if the people at the meetings with Santiago were doing something that federal law forbids, such as denying Florida citizens their constitutional rights under color of state law. “Meetings” do generally fit the description of what would underlie an unlawful conspiracy. O’Mara may be turning up for us the thing we suspected all along: Before the public outcry, the SPD and some certain others WERE in fact probably meeting to cover-up the murder. ā
I do not know the authenticity of those claims from Omara because the guy is a liar but… even then, it was just their opinion at the time and can be read in a variable of ways
1) They felt he should not be charged because they did not have enough evidence
2) They purposely wanted to sweep it under the rug, hence he should be charged
3) They themselves felt that they should not charge Zimmerman
It would moreso blow up in Omara’s face but perhaps he does not care LOL
at 2, did a typo “should not”
Anyway it’s not evidence. A bunch of people who do not have the deciding power get together and say they shouldn’t charge Zimmerman with a crime. Who cares? Someone ELSE did charge Zimmerman with a crime. What does any of that prove? It can’t change what happened on 2/26/2012.
In fact, let’s all start having meetings where we decide by consensus that Trayvon Martin should not be dead. I’d go for that any day!
I agree… I just feel Omara trying to use that will actually blow up in his face… and what you stated is one of them… yes it does not change the evidence and what Zimmerman has stated
They went by GZ’s statement and those of witnesses which were mainly inconclusive. There had been no forensics or lab reports conducted until AFTER Corey was appointed special SA and contacted FDLE to conduct those tests.
Let’s not forget that Papa Zim did not want GZ charged, and voluntarily went to investigators telling them to “Make this all go away.” That’s on tape.
The problem is witness 6 has changed his story and gave 3 versions
1) 911 call he says that they were wrestling and then the black kid is shot
2) He claims the MMA stuff and then the shot
3) He recants and claims that he was just pinning Zimmerman
the funny thing is this guy could potentially be charged with perjury and obstruction and false statements to police because the forensic evidence disputes all of his claims, and is only potentially true is the wrestling
He has really blown up. I don’t think I’ll be looking at another Zimmerman video until the trial. I can’t take anymore of these people right now.
My words of grandmotherly advice to Team Zimmerman: Don’t keep worrying about how this whole prosecution was politically motivated. As soon as George is acquitted or cleared, you can sue for false arrest and malicious prosecution and then you can sue all the media, all the bloggers, and everyone else who decided to persecute your guy just because he killed a kid. So while you’re getting him acquitted and all, just chill. The big one’s coming soon enough. š
Lonnie S, I agree with you. I never thought the feds were even TRYING to come up with “hate crime” or to prosecute Zimmerman for anything; they had to have given a very definite CLEAR signal to the State to do so or else there would be a response from them. I think they’re keeping the jurisdiction clean and what they’re doing is zeroing in on Wolfinger, Lee, Smith, and any other cover-up contributors in Sanford or in Seminole County generally. Remember, the right-wing media only climbed on this AFTER Gingrich and other notables had already spoken out on the “prosecute!” side. The case was given to Corey for a reason and she knew that reason. I expect we will not see the feds’ work for a long time and when we do see it, it will have very little to do with George and a lot to do with the other “alleged” wrongdoers.
O’Mara’s being freaked out about the feds means something else to me. It may mean that he is being asked to assess how dangerous it is right now for certain people to testify in a dishonest or somewhat corrupt manner, to try to cover for what the department did. In other words, there may be witnesses who have been talking to O’Mara to say, essentially, “Hey man I’d love to help you out here but I can’t go into court and swear upon an oath and then have to face the music with the feds because I was trying to pull YOUR GUY out of the fire he built himself. Not my problem, man.”
That’s what I believe O’Mara’s stake in the DOJ game is. He wants to see what they have, who has been squealing, and how loud. I would say that Serino knows a helluva lot and I am sure O’Mara would like to find out how much of it he has shared with DOJ. Yeah, that’s kind of interesting….
Personally, I think they should authenticate and verify Zimmerman’s medical records, as if yall remember, Omara and Zimmerman tried pulling a fast one at the first bond hearing with the “George is so broke and hurt, and here is his only passport” theory.
Also I feel Zimmerman’s medical records from since he was a kindergartener to now should be allowed in, plus all his facebook and twitter (I think they are irrelevant but might as well piss Zimmerman off, the social media accounts that is).
If character from Trayvon’s school records and social media is what MOM wants and is allowed, what about George’s cousin’s testimony as to him molesting her? Isn’t that a character issue? If negative things come up on Trayvon’s school records that MOM can use against the victim, is it not tit-for-tat with GZ’s character issues. Does MOM open a door for the prosecution to introduce GZ’s prior record, his social media and the allegations from his cousin.
Yes… that is correct they can. Thats one of the reasons I feel this mess is making the issue more complicated than needed. Zimmerman will look 100 times worse in comparison (I am guessing Trayvon isnt a bad kid but not perfect). Then they will have to go back to the evidence on the night of anyways. So pointless and stupid.
Not quite.
Instead, violent character propensities for violent character propensities. That’s a losing game Zimmerman cannot afford to play.
Freddy, u think they will be allowed to enter in the evidence of Zimmerman’s tampering with evidence and false statements he gave for his bail, plus his structuring of payments?
I think that can go a long way to disprove his ADHD memory loss theory as well as his credibility
I also feel the fact Zimmerman gave such detailed descriptions of his location that it disputes the ADHD theory as well
I am not a member of the George and Shellie Zimmerman fan club, but I do not believe we should be calling them names. We are better than the Treehouse Gang.
Let’s get back on the high road.
Well said, Prof.
I agree. I feel uncomfortable with both sides when the names start flying. It’s enough to debate the case and blow the opposition away with facts, data, and observations.
Seconded, name calling serves no purpose, except to convey an emotional bend. So, it is better to refrain from such childish behavior, unless it has some redeeming comedic or poetic value.
Remember there are new people coming to read these boards all the time. Will they see us thrashing about as ineffectively waxing emotional as the pro-Z’s? Or will they see evidence being discussed?
The choice is ours.
Thirded. Pointless mockery distracts from factual matters.
Thank you, professor.
LMAO all that huff and puff about a 3rd Witness 9 recording was all theatrics LMAO
They got nada…
OMG I just saw a pic of Zimmerfat and he looks like Chaz Bono.
WONDER what Smellie looks like then? More of a rotund 1950s prison matron with steely eyes?
and sloppy eyeliner … from and esthetician/make up artist no less! (sorry, this has always bugged me as i have some serious training in make up artistry.)
Freddy
Why doesn’t Bernie object to the constant hearsay Omara presents at every hearing?
That why he asked the judge for a gag order. He may not get it Florida is a very open state
Well I hope he at least objects it at trial or immunity hearing because he cant present Zimmerman’s statements to prove the truth of the matter asserted without having being cross examined for credibility
IMO, Bernie knows the source in which O’Mara is gathering his information. He has no doubt spoken to Sybrina and Tracy about Trayvon’s social media and knows that O’Mara is going down a rabbit trail. Why not let him waste his time and supporters’ money looking for something that doesn’t exist?
As far as GZ’s hearsay statements, O’Mara is suppose to at least give an appearance that he believes his client. OTOH, the State already knows the forensic evidence against GZ. They are not going to litigate an immunity hearing until it begins. I am very happy with the way Bernie doesn’t take MOM’s ambushes. MOM will have to wait.
I support the social media not just turning stuff over. My stuff is on there too.
Hearsay is admissible in pretrial hearings.
Thanks Freddy. I guess Bernie will be objecting at the immunity mini-trial hearing and the trial of any “hearsay” from Omara or West then.
Yep.
Regarding photos from Trayvon Martin’s social media. Snopes says they are “False” and the site that originally posted them as since admitted they were wrong.
http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/martin.asp
I would like to see defensive wounds on Zimmerman surely there have to be some. Lol, we all know there’s none. Fish all you want MOM. Your clients azz is toast and you know it. A grown man kills a kids and you want to prosecute this kid in death. If this was a rape victim this would not be allowed Mark would not be allowed on tv or social media saying how many men she slept with or teased before her rape.
@Xena – You know above where you were talking about body language and you said:
“GZ blinked a lot ā may need new contacts.”
That caught my eye (no pun intended) because it struck me that I had heard somewhere that meant something too in body language, and if I remember right, it is lies.
If you look it up, you will find that blinking can be a sign of stress, also of lying.
@Rachael. You’re correct.
“Psychologists and body language experts have noticed that when we are nervous or troubled about something our blink rate goes up. Often such behavior is seen with liars. Although, it takes more than increased blinking rate to accuse someone of lying as the same reaction is often seen with people under stress.”
http://www.arinanikitina.com/body-language-of-the-eyes.html
My opinion is that Zimmerman looked like hell, pissed off, and ready to cry too
It looked like he was ready to pick up something and throw it, tantrum style.
“My opinion is that Zimmerman looked like hell, pissed off, and ready to cry too”
My dream come true! I must view this today’s video right away. And just think, Georgy told Mr. Uncle Tom that this would all just “blow” over……..
I think Zimmerman wasnt expecting to appear so thats why he looks the way he normally looked (he did not have time to pepper up to look different) because today he looks menacing
Menacing… And fat!
I wonder how I would look if I didn’t go out except for brief periods at night and didn’t go anywhere or see anyone for weeks with no change in sight for several more months. And had a murder charge waiting for me.
bettykath says: “I wonder how I would look if I didn’t go out except for brief periods at night and didn’t go anywhere or see anyone for weeks with no change in sight for several more months. And had a murder charge waiting for me.”
I don’t know what you would look like but I would try my best not to look like a bloated pig. Maybe GZ should invest some of his contributor’s money into exercise equipment and workout in his spare time instead of stuffing his face. It’s not a good look to be so overweight and claim a skinny teen kid was beating you up and the only recourse you had to stop him was to shoot him.
Hmmm… Sounds like he’s become a vampire.
He is a predator….he certainly fits into the “Abby – Normal” Brain category as far as that goes.
Either he was drugged out or having trouble staying awake. Did you see him texting after the judge left the courtroom as he sat all alone.
I didnt watch the hearing but if he was texting, sounds like more evidence for the State LOL
Did anyone notice MOM plug when he said that there may be evidence that trayon was involved in MMA fighting on his facebook page. This man is a peace of work but I worry not about him, He’s going to get just what him & George is looking for, 25yrs to life in prision. i’ve said it before, George may want to give his life over to The Lord now cuz his azz will soon belong to the state of Florida. Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t the rep. For twitter say that Travyon information could not be accessed after the account have been deleted. Also how would he be able to authenticate the entries being that Trayvon Facebook & twitter was hacked
You can tell Omara is getting his inside information from the Conservative Tinfoil Hat. Those facebook twitter or whatever pics have been proven long ago to be phonies and dont even look like Trayvon. They seem to miss the main point in that, whether or not Trayvon was this deadly thug (big laugh because we know he is just a normal 17 year old kid), it does not negate him being a murder victim, nor does it necessarily mean that George acted in self defense.
All he’s doing is reading blogs and opining. People who train for combat have, at the least, decent coordination from the practice. Look at Trayvon walk around the 711 store, see any gracefulness in his deportment? Of course you don’t, it isn’t there. If anything he walks with the stilted style of a sedentary person whose muscles are weak from too little physical activity. That, plus he exhibits the lack of coordination of youth. All of which, when taken together, makes it easy to guess his age.
We didn’t even have to guess his age George said out of his mouth that Trayvon was a teen. Then lies in court to the parents and say that “I didn’t know he was that young I thought he was a lil younger than me”. A straight faced liar he is and the fool is not even good at it.
GZ is a poor liar. But, in the course of his ordinary days, his lies are about trivial things, thus no one takes the time to call him out. Either to be polite, or because the lie is without noteworthy consequences, people let him get away with it, and he counts that as a “WIN”. He’s very used to “WINNING” because he believes, he’s so smart, and everyone else is so dumb. An exact negative image of the real photograph. He thinks he’s so smart that he’s fooled everyone, when the truth is he’s so dumb he’s fooled no one, the “proof” is that nobody reacts in ways he does not expect, so it must be true.
Wait… Wait just a minute, nobody is that stupid. GZ has just made a serious break/change in programs. I sincerely doubt that he was able to believe, that he could actually come up with a fool proof plan to succeed on his own. Why? Because, it has never happened before. The fact is, he was once again facing failure, no law school graduation because he had failed yet again. So, you can’t tell me that he is a confident pursuer of goals. Nope, someone had to put him up to this, by giving him the confidence that any old story would do.
In the 46 days while he was free, he’d probably told several new versions each day, after all, the highly questionable versions he gave on the first and second day appeared to have worked. So then, what special skills were needed to concoct a cover story? Hardly a wonder then, that he changes his stories so freely. He’s had 6 weeks when anything at all was acceptable. One has to wonder what versions he was giving out on his net sites.
So the question isn’t just who notified him that night, but who gave him the confidence that he would be absolved under any and all conditions? Who would credibly have that kind of power? Perhaps that’s what the FBI has solved?
With regard to social media, if the defense does somehow get hold of it, will the prosecution and/or the judge be able to identify the stuff that is false/wrong person/created by hackers etcetera, and therefore should be inadmissable?
By the way, I’ve been wondering about a claim that I’ve seen multiple times by Zimbots that Trayvon assaulted a bus driver. Can anyone tell me what was cited as the original basis for this claim?
I tweet off a Twitter Account for “No_Limit_Ni**er.” There were tweets on that account about missing No Limit that were posted prior to 2/26/12 when Trayvon Martin was still alive, but that doesn’t make a difference to the Zidiots.
A tweet of a twitter account was evidence of an assault by Trayvon Martin on a bus driver? LMAO! I saw a trial where a lawyer’s secretary testified that she had e-mailed her boss on a certain date about a concern she had about a client. It was so obviously a lie that I asked my son, who is technologically competent (which I am not) to see if he could back-date an e-mail to me. Within a few hours I received an e-mail from a certain Internet person named “Nostradamus” with a bunch of numbers after his name. It was dated May 5, 1555. This Nostradamus guy had a handle at “hotmail.”
Nostradamus told me, in that e-mail:
1. You are getting very sleepy;
2. There will be a big trial;
3. A frowsy looking legal secretary wearing an unbecoming Coogi sweater will testify that she sent an e-mail to her boss notifying him that a matrimonial client was about to commit a crime;
4. You will ask your handsome and accomplished son to investigate this claim and he will find it suspicious;
5. Oh, and Al Gore will invent the Internet.
HAVE A NICE DAY.
For anyone interested, or did not see MOM’s press conference after the hearing, Trent Sawyer has it posted. MOM is revealing in his answers.
Thanks, Xena. Somehow I missed it.
this guy is a class A degenerate
George Orwell,
Note to self: Never be a witness to a crime.
Note to self: Never use social media in case I am murdered or raped.
Here’s a question. Why, when the State has said that they will produce deponents, would MOM be so anxious to want the addresses of state witnesses?
West’s “environmental factors” explanation made no sense to me or to Judge Nelson. She ignored him.
Yes. They want State witnesses sequestered!?!?!?! along with their addresses and opportunity to “investigate.” If I was going to be a State witness, and the defendant’s legal counsel wanted my personal information to dig into my personal life, I would contact the State prosecution in a heartbeat and ask for a protective order.
Is that normal procedure, Professor?
Not in this dimension of the space-time continuum.
Environmental factors is code word for witness intimidation from the crazy right wing racists
“Westās āenvironmental factorsā ”
wtf does that even mean? LMAO
Following…
I thought George Zimmerman looked terrible. He’s gained at least 50 pounds and his complexion is pasty white. He appeared to be medicated.
My medical opinion ……no adderall equals weight gain. We already know he has a history of taking Temazepam. Temazepam is a “benzo” they same family as Xanax and Valium. This could defintely explain the peronality/affect change.
A case like this is certainly stressful for anyone, but if he were truly innocent, I don’t think GZ would look this bad.
I pray that Trayvon’s spirit haunts Porky every waking moment.
I believe all humans have a soul. It would be dandy if his spirit was haunting Zimmerman LOL
Maybe he’s wearing an “Extra Heavy Duty, Triple Layer, Kevlar Over Steel, Double Plated Bullet Proof Vest. It looks like he has a bullet proof facial implant as well.
Medicated…..he only smirked once or twice that I saw and looked completely confused the entire time.
I can honestly say…….And I’m damn glad of it !!
LOLO facial implant!LOL
alternatively, he just borrowed wonder woman’s radial, steel reinforced bra … the world may never know.
Whoa. Did he ever look different. (GZ)
Look what spending 24 hours a day with Shellie Zimmerman can do to you.
Wow. Just wow.
It’s pretty obvious, based on some of MOM’s reasoning, that he is taking his “discovery” instructions from folks at the treehouse. Trayvon could have been a Golden Gloves contestant. The lab reports still do not support that Trayvon touched GZ.
The scope of discovery is very broad. Defense gets anything relevant as well as anything that might reasonably be expected to lead to the discovery of relevant evidence.
That does not mean the evidence will be admissible at trial.
The scope of admissibility is much narrower than the scope of discovery.
It is my impression that MOM’s discovery is to appease GZ’s supporters, who have already suggested how confidential discovery should be “lost” to become public.
Yeah, it looks like they’ve gone full on “Conservative Nuthouse” with the dubious theories and bizzare political conspiracies. GZ must be wondering why he’s not paying O’Mara when he’s getting such “great” free advice from them. lol.
A big tell about the dubious theories is when O’Mara metioned “MMA fighting videos” after the hearing. A bigger tell is how they’ve turned what should be routine matters (e.g. bail and discovery hearings) into media events. As I siad before, if they really had the goods they wouldn’t need the drama.
Right! It’s like the FB pics that, IIRC, the Wagist site posted as being posted by Trayvon Martin. They had the name right, but not the person — it was another Trayvon Martin. Snoops has even provided info about that mistaken identity, but the Zidiots continue representing pics and comments from that site as the Trayvon Martin that GZ killed. What makes it worst is that it drives in the racial prejudice that “They all look alike.”
In a way, I hope that FB does cooperate and put the lies to rest. The same is true for the Twitter account. What the Zidiots purport is Trayvon’s “No Limit Ni**er” handle were comments posted about missing him prior to 2/26/12. Whomever “No Limit Ni**er” is, is not the Trayvon Martin that GZ killed on 2/26/12.
http://thefreedombulletin.com/2012/06/a-martial-artist-looks-at-the-zimmermanmartin-murder-case/
I never heard of MMA fighting until I read this article.
I believe this writer knows more about MMA than any Zimmerman supporter, including OMara ! .
Of the few competitions I watched on television, GZ, would have been removed from the crime scene on a stretcher had Trayvon used any MMA fighting on him. That’s one reason why I can’t stand watching the competitions. These are trained men competing, and the one that gets an advance renders the other incapable of using defense.
I also keep in mind that GZ had no defensive wounds or bruising.
I am willing to bet the MMA videos are hoaxes and phonies or unauthenticated.
Besides, if Trayvon was the alleged MMA fighter, George should look like this
Which we all know he does not…
It funny because young black me don’t use “No Limit” anymore. That was something that was used back in the 90s. I would know being that I’m from the same city as Trayvon and have plenty of young cousin around all the time i have never heard any one of them say “No Limit” since the phrase was coined from a rap group of the 90s.
The worst part is these racists cant tell black people apart. Those twitter pics or facebook or whatever are not even Trayvon Martin. & Yes, No Limit Nigga, is a 90’s term and considering that was George’s time as a teen, he thought that he could use it against Trayvon.
Yep.
does it seem to you that Omara is enjoying spewing these lies just a tad too much?
“does it seem to you that Omara is enjoying spewing these lies just a tad too much?”
I think O’Mara is enjoying the spotlight and one-upping the prosecution, not to mention the cash-flow to his bank account. IMO
he has no conscience and no soul to malign a 17-year-old dead victim in the hopes of getting his obviously guilty client off on a “technicality” – but that’s just my opinion and I am not a legal professional.
To ks:
Agreed. Seems as though MOM and his legal team have not gone over any of the earlier evidence, especially where John, witness #13, re-canted his story about MMA style.
In fact, he tells FDLE investigators back in March 2012 he doesn’t even watch MMA programming but has only seen a few commercials about it.
I would not be surprised if witness#13 came to his wrong conclusions based on the lies he saw posted on the “Conservative Nuthouse”.
Or perhaps he somehow remembered the word “perjury”.
So Professor, what did you think?
i was favorably impressed with Judge Nelson. She’s firmly in command of the courtroom and her rulings were pretty much what I expected.
I especially liked her because she’s cordial, and not a bisnatch as some women in power with an ego can become. She seems like the iron fist in a velvet glove.
IMO, the defense wanted to fish and the judge said “Go Fish”. I suspect they are getting just enough rope to hang themselves. Despite all the histrionics of O’Mara and West, we know that TM doesn’t have a record and by most accounts was a normal to good kid. If there was anything dramatically negative, we’d know it by now.
Also, I don’t think there’s anything relevant to the matter at hand but importantly, if the defense argues that TM’s “background” is relevant, they’re opening the door for GZ’s substaintial negative background to come in which of coure they don’t want. I like they are continuing to crow like roosters while the prosecutors are lying in wait like foxes. You can tell which side is really confident in their case.
BIngo
ITA with 100% (especially about the roosters and foxes)
What’s happened:
1. Defense gets Martin’s school records. Relevancy and admissibility will be determined later.
2. Judge Nelson will review Zimmerman’s medical records in camera and decide what will be turned over to the State. She has the entire file. Relevancy and admissibility will be determined later.
3. Defense can subpoena TM’s and Dee Dee’s Facebook and Twitter accounts. Relevancy and admissibility will be determined later.
4. Benjamin Crump has 10 days to provide a list of the people who were in his office listening to his conversation with Dee Dee. She was on his speaker phone. The defense may take his deposition.
5. Judge Nelson is going to handle discovery disagreements and specific dates have been set aside to consider them.
6. The State’s motion for a gag order will be heard on October 26th at 1:30 pm.
Court Recessed.
“Judge Nelson will review Zimmerman’s medical records in camera and decide what will be turned over to the State. She has the entire file. Relevancy and admissibility will be determined later.”
If GZ has only been seeing this particular practice for a short time, can the prosecution get more medical records?
Since defense is getting background on Trayvon’s state of mind and other non-medical issues, is the state entitled to medical records from Trayvon’s psychologist who he had been seeing?
I think you meant Zimmerman’s psychologist.
BTW, it was interesting to see how MOM wanted the medical records limited to 30 days before and 30 days after 2/26/12. It is my speculation and suspicion, but GZ’s medical records might reveal treatment and/or counselling for alcoholism. Osterman said something along the lines of GZ no longer hanging out in bars after his marriage.
I did mean Zimmerman’s psychologist. Thanks for catching that.
Psychiatrists are M.D.s and can prescribe drugs. Psychologists cannot.
Bernie de la Rionda appears to be focused on Zimmerman’s claimed injuries. He mentioned the claimed broken nose, for example, as an injury that might have occurred and possible treated before the incident.
I think he should cast his net more widely because I think O’Mara is going to attempt to blame Zimmerman’s many inconsistent statements on ADHD.
Hopefully, there will be a reference in the clinic’s records to the identity of the psychiatrist who is writing the Adderall scrips.
Subpoenaing pharmacy records where he gets his scrips filled probably is another source for that information.
As soon as he knows the identity of the psychiatrist, he should subpoena those records and line up an expert psychiatrist for the State to review those records..
Because of this short-term concern about the broken nose, I am afraid that BDLR’s focus is limited and possibly he may not be competent. GZ moved to Florida approximately 10 years ago. There is a possibility GZ broke his nose years ago as a previous poster noted. BDLR should have had the foresight to ask for medical records from the psychologist/psychiatrist GZ was seeing and pharmacy records. I think BDLR needs to be more aggressive and if this presentation today is the best he has, he needs help. If MOM is going to plan his defense around ADHD as the cause of GZ’s nconsistencies, it seems like BDLR would need to know more about who diagnosed GZ and when. I doubt it was the Florida medical group who diagnosed him. Do you think so far BDLR is showing the skill level to get a conviction or is it too early to tell?
Let MOM go there. There are times when you take the opposing party’s argument and use it against them. If GZ recognizes that ADHD has a mental effect on him, then he would also recognize that he should not have been carrying a gun.
In addition to which his claimed broken nose, is not the reason he claims he fired the fatal shot. The “fight at the tee” if there was one, was not the reason he fired the fatal shot. Getting his head bashed on the concrete, was not the reason he fired the fatal shot. He never fired a shot when any of those things happened. When he did fire the fatal shot, the only thing he was worried about was, getting his other hand out of the way. Not, exactly what one would envision, a person facing great bodily harm or death would be worried about.
Too early to tell, but I think he could have done better today.
The Credit Union statements provide that in early April, GZ made debit card purchases at Health Central in Ocoee, FL. that might be prescriptions.
Will the ADHD excuse even work though?
We are talking about a man who went to extreme measures to hide money by structuring it and hiding his passport and telling the court he was broke and only had the one passport…
That kind of information contradicts that idea because to structure all that money takes some memory and coordination…
as well in his statements, Zimmerman was asked repeatedly if what his statement was his statement, to which, Zimmerman said yes, then confronted about the inconsistency, then Zimmerman changed the story again
the judge should have reviewed Trayvon’s records as well in camera and then decided what the defense could see.
I liked how Judge Nelson limited the scope of the deposition. Also, without the State objecting, Judge Nelson stood her ground that West was not going to depose attorney Crump there and then.
The defense seemed to take offense with the recording being provided to the FBI. There is something with the defense and the FBI that seems to have them very, very frightened.
Xena says: “There is something with the defense and the FBI that seems to have them very, very frightened.”
I hope it is justifiable for them to be very, very frightened by FBI involvement. Maybe they have told GZ something regarding the FBI and that is why he looked so terrible, aside from the huge weight gain.
YEP
I think you’re on to something about the FBI part. Notice that a lot of the defense’s recent pr moves have focused on comments about race and how GZ is not a racist and blustering at the Feds? I’m begining to think that they may have been notified that a federal charge is on the way which would partially explain the Crump thing.
I think the FBI Crime Lab did something to produce a cleaner and more audible recording of that conversation between Crump and Dee Dee over his speaker phone.
I doubt any decision has been made by DOJ and the local U.S. Attorney’s Office regarding whether to charge Zimmerman with a federal felony. I don’t believe they will make a decision until after the State case has been concluded. For example, it would not be necessary if Zimmerman is convicted and sentenced to life.
I can’t put my finger on it, but MOM is very anxious to know what the FBI knows and he’s attempting a backdoor approach under the state’s jurisdiction. The FBI will disclose what they have that pertains to the state’s case, but not what pertains to any violations under federal statute until after the grand jury has met.
Also, remember what MOM said on Piers Morgan about returning donations submitted by racists. Why would he say and do that unless the feds were looking into GZ’s association with them?
To everyone on the FBI involvement. I have a connection, my sons godfather and his ex-partner, who have been involved in the Federal & SPD investigations
.
In our conversations about this, which I can’t disclose in any detail are summed up by this………………..to you Z….
“Be afraid……be very afraid…….”
jm, SG2, ks, Xena…..you are all onto it…. Remember, they never said he wasn’t a racist……..they said there was not enough to guarantee a conviction at that time……we all know that things can change or be re-evaluated at any point.
My opinion, which was not argued by my guys is…..lets not make it look like we’re picking on old George………………..yet.
As the professor stated “…it would not be necessary if Zimmerman is convicted and sentenced to life.” Then again…what pressure will Z feel when that gets moving again.
There is far more going on than meets the eye.
PS…don’t worry about BDLR…..he’s got more “tactical” help than you can imagine.
@racerrodig. Another thing that I associate with the feds is that $135 that GZ spent at the U.S. Postal Service while he lived with Osterman.
You are correct. The FBI didn’t conclude that GZ isn’t racist. They interviewed people knowing or having contact with GZ, which you no doubt know was not the extent of their investigation.
Oh yes!! From the time that Corey announced the charges, I said that the State has evidence the public won’t know about until trial.
I have seen the word psychologist mentioned several occasions. I would love to see those records. What I find interesting is that it appears GZ’s PA was the prescriber of his medication, even the mental health meds such as adderall and temazepam. Psychologists’ only have prescribing rights in about 4 states…..and Florida isn’t one of those states. Feel free to correct me if the laws have changed.
I find it interesting Zuimmerman could afford to see a psychologist , yet after a beating he decribes as life threatening
he refsues to go to a hosiptal because of the cost.
That puzzled me, too. Both are controlled substances and are not allowed to be prescribed in Florida by Psychologists or Physicians Assistants. From the looks of the medical report, Lodine (an NSAID) appears to be the only thing written on 2/27/12. Maybe on previous visits he saw an actual doctor at the practice.
MOM wants to only give 30 days medical records. The Adderall was prescribed on 2/13 and is the only other med to fall in that time period. The sleeping pill, Temazepam (another controlled drug) was prescribed 1/23 which is before the +/-30 day wish list for MOM.
Something else that caught my eye was the “Specific Drug Allergy” listed. Lisdexamfetamine~~~MOOD SWINGS.
It’s common name is Vyvanse. Controlled drug similar to Adderall. Was Zimmerman switched from this to Adderall on 2/13 because of the mood swings??? Had he the time to get dosages right before 2/26??? Maybe this is the reason they are pushing 30 days.
My daughter was diagnosed early (age 2) for ADHD. (We have since learned she has a genetic disorder involving her production of Dopamine.) She took various meds over the years and each time it took a lot of tweaking to find the right dose. Too little and she twirled, skipped, and chatted up a storm. Too much and she was moody, irritable, argumentative, or zombie-like. During times she was on too much, there were days when I wanted to stop the drugs altogether just so that i’d know my loving child was still in there.
Medical records for Zimmerman might show switches in his meds before the murder. Being ADHD has squat to do with him killing Trayvon. It doesn’t give you a forgetful memory. If anything, you pay attention to everything going on around you. The kids in school get in trouble for not paying attention, when actually they ARE paying attention…to the clock ticking on the walll…to the bird that flew by the window…to the kid pencil tapping on the seat in front of them…you get my drift.
Doctors tell you to take ADHD meds early in the day because they cause insomnia. Proper dosing and he shouldn’t have needed another controlled substance to help him sleep. Sad. What else is his medical record hiding? MOM knows.
Lynn …..exactly! I wonder if GZ even has ADHD. There are a number of differential diagnoses I would rule out before I put somebody on Adderall. Again, if I remember correctly he was on 40mg per day; that is nearly maxed-out dose. If he had sleeping problems and needed to take a benzo to sleep, that would say to me that he is dosed too high. These are both highly addictive medications….both controlled substances. I also question the “vyvanse allergy”, and I will tell you why…..vyvanse is extended release and doesn’t give the addicts the same “feeling” as the Adderall. I would love….love…love to see some psychiatric/medical history on GZ. These powerful stimulants can even make other disorders worse.
Quite frankly looking at his history I think he is probably a sociopath. He has a history of arrest….he has a history of aggressive behaviour……..he has a history of dodging financial responsibility( sued by creditors)……..he seems to lack empathy or remorse(it was gods will)…….he just has a flat affect. He has more problems than ADHD. IF MOM is smart he will avoid any psych consults!
I believe (and i’ll find out for sure monday) only a psychiatrist can prescribe adderal and at least in florida it has to be a paper script each month.IE NO refills!! so he has to go get a script every month somewhere!
My problem with all the inconsistencies in GZ’s story is ADD doesn’t cause *selective memory*! I don’t care if he has ADD or ABCD, anyone can see he only forgets stuff that doesn’t help his absurd SD story! Most people know someone with ADD now and probably take offense to that BS
ps. i still say NO immunity hearing, he’s going straight to trial! LOL
There is another thing to consider about Adderall. In about the middle of 2011, supplies of Adderall began to dry up at pharmacies all over the place. People on larger doses had to buy smaller doses and double up on them; some people couldn’t get any; mail order pharmacies had them on back-order, etc. etc. etc. A REAL PANIC! Some people asked their doctors for substitute drugs so they could wait out the shortage. I have a friend who is a pharmacist in a classy drug store in the middle of a big city (i.e., his customers have their own doctors whom they can call on the phone and get their prescriptions filled rapidly) told me the reason: apparently the pharmaceutical company had failed to get their approvals from the FDA renewed on time and right in the middle of a big rush on Adderral, because the demand soared! Guess why?
Adderall has become the college kids’ and even the prep school high school kids’ LEGAL drug of choice. Mamma and Daddy all want their kids on Adderall at that level, not because they have ADHD but because the OTHER kids in their classes who ARE on the drug are getting higher grades and doing better and advancing. In other words, the drug-enhanced state the young folks find themselves in is conducive to high competitive performance in high school and college! It’s the success drug!
Maybe it gives them an extra hour of study per day; maybe it helps them perform better on tests; maybe it gives them more energy and a brighter LOOK in the classroom, but whatever it does, the parents of the upper class kids want it a LOT and it has become a high class commodity of some note.
If you think about George in early 2012, unable to graduate from the junior college, estranged from his family, working but not earning enough money to support his own lifestyle, facing the possibility of being a worker all his life being forced to submit to the indignity of taking orders from someone he considers naturally inferior to him — that drug was not just a little aid against ADHD. It might have been a lot more than that, at the time. And it might not have been a psychiatrist (more highly qualified to deal with the ramifications of drug reactions and interactions) or, especially, a psychiatrist with a specialty in psychopharmacology (manipulation of someone’s meds to produce the best result) handling it. See, even a gynecologist — anyone with an M.D. and a DEA license and a controlled substance permit from the feds and their own state — can prescribe it. But some doctors do not know HOW to prescribe it and when NOT to prescribe it. And the dosage and directions (which George would not follow anyway) should always be very carefully controlled. George doesn’t go in for careful control unless he is imposing it. That’s part of my meditation on “What’s going wrong with George Zimmerman now?”
I appreciate your list, Professor. Very helpful for us legal-impaired beings~
NBC News reported the following paragraph:
“This was the first hearing in the highly-publicized case to come before Judge Nelson, who replaced the previous judge, Kenneth Lester in August after a judicial panel found that Lester had begun to form opinions about Zimmerman that could affect his impartiality.”
That is not what the appellate court found. The appellate court found that the motion for Lester’s disqualification, though on the borderline, was legally sufficient. BIG BIG DIFFERENCE!
I wonder if NBC is starting to report with Zim-Spin so they don’t get sued. It’s amazing how totally chickenshit some big corporate folks (agencies, newspapers, etc.) can be when there’s sword rattling going on. And unfortunately, the “sue everyone who displeases you” gene isn’t usually operable in the sane people who actually are not out peddling falsehoods. That is, Lester could presumably sue NBC now but he won’t.
@Malisha. Unless there is a reporter with experience in courts and the law who understands law, the media always seems to fall short on reporting facts when it comes to written orders of the court. In general, reporters are given limited space for articles. If the editor gives them 400 words or less, reporters paraphrase and interpret to make the article fit. That is why I appreciate Florida making filings public and that is what I read rather than what the media has to say was decided or alleged.
What impressed me was the following:
1. Zim and West both wore oxford light blue button-downs a yellow striped ties. I presume they coordinated.
2. Zim had to have been told “NO FACIAL EXPRESSIONS” because he only smirked twice, and both times, toward the young woman from O’Mara’s office. I think he’s scared to show facial expressions any more because he knows LLMPapa is gonna be setting him to music in about a minute!
3. Nelson is going to keep this case and run it through to the end and she’s in control. It was interesting that BDLR did not ask for enough but she herself said, in response to O’Mara’s suggestion that only 30 days’ of medical records be produced, “Would you agree to only 30 days’ worth of the twitter and facebook stuff?”
4. Crump made a good presentation. It is galling to O’Mara that DOJ is not going to be terribly intimidated by him. He does want a chance to intimidate all the other witnesses, though. Oooooooh, he’ll INVESTIGATE them and IMPEACH them. They better watch OUT!
Good observations, Malisha.
I hoped there would be some post-hearing interviews outside the courtroom as there have been in the past, but guess that’s not happening now that we’re getting to the meat of the issue.
Evidently a law enforcement officer who’s depo was taken as a state’s witness gave statements of evidence that the defense wants out to the public. As it will be soon.
O’Mara has something that he thinks is good for the defense and got it admitted. The news lawyer was most anxious to get it. So, as Judge N. said as soon as it’s entered it is released to the public…….
And, the offense wanted it sealed until they had time to look at it and file about it…..interesting.
The defense seems to think that deposition supports them. So, what is the defense looking for? Evidence of GZ’s broken nose and head boo-boo’s — maybe that his back was wet.
That deposition (if I’m correct) still does not overcome forensic evidence.
According to various people on Twitter the general idea is that law enforcement was surprised that GZ was charged and O’Mara has hinted that he found something that is supposed to indicate that the charges were politically motivated.
I think it’s pretty clear that the political motivation, if any, was not to charge Zimmerman, rather than the other way around.
The LE was probably Osterman
The political motivation thing is a classic “Jedi mind trick”. As the Prof points out, it’s like the political motivation was in favor of GZ especially at the beginning.
Yes, I am not sure that “Everyone agreed not to charge him and then Corey spoiled it all.” is the story that I would want to tell.
That’s pretty much what MOM said in the press conference. I embedded the vid below.
Malisha says: “BDLR did not ask for enough.”
Exactly. BDLR worries me.
He worries me also! it’s as if he is just going through the motions of representing Trayvon and the state of Florida. something’s just not right here.
Maybe I am reading too much into this, but could the State be using the weakest prosecutor to throw this case? Am I paranoid regarding BLDR?
he reminds me of Columbo, looks like he is a bumbling fool but really is sharp, give him a chance…..
jm, BDLR asking for a gag order at this juncture is beyond laughable.
From the beginning I had my doubts about him and now I agree that it looks as if the State is attempting to throw this case.
I agree with your comment that BDLR has to be the weakest of the prosecutors in the State Attorney’s office.
Roderick, were you the same “roderick” who used to post in Yahoo comments?
O’Mara is what my grandmother called “gally”. Trying to intimidiate the DOJ! Ain’t that some ish?
Glad to see you are back, missed you!
Thank you, everyone! You are too kind.
Malisha…..I’ve got an old dial-up computer on which I can barely download single pictures and no videos at all (and no tv either). That’s why I really appreciate the information here and everybody’s descriptions of what’s going on in the videos. š
O’Mara finally said to Nelson, “This is the kind of thing where you want to look at the Judge to see if it’s time to stop talking,” and I had to laugh because she has been telling him STFU nicely all afternoon and he has been acting like a kid at the candy counter of the grocery whose mom just said no twice.
Moron O’ Mara…………a Legend in his own mind.
Judge set an Oct. 26 hearing on gag order motion at 1:30pm.
What I wonder is this: Why hasn’t the state tried to get ALL OF GEORGE’S MEDICAL RECORDS for the last ten years? Medical, psychological, etc. If reputation is part of the issue well then? And all his employment records — under the table, over the table, legal, illegal, ALL of it. How come we’re not looking at HIS reputation?
Malisha said: “Why hasnāt the state tried to get ALL OF GEORGEāS MEDICAL RECORDS for the last ten years? Medical, psychological, etc. If reputation is part of the issue well then? And all his employment records ā under the table, over the table, legal, illegal, ALL of it. How come weāre not looking at HIS reputation?”
I wondered the same thing. If character of Trayvon is an issue, why isn’t GZ’s background more thoroughly investigated. What about GZ social media records and tweets?
Also regarding medical records, how long has GZ been going to this particular practice? Maybe there are other doctors he has seen. What about the psychologist/psychiatrist who he has been seeing. Who prescribed the Adderall and tamezepam and how long has he been taking it?
I thought the state dropped the ball there unless there is more to come.
Remember Professor said the stuff about Trayvon’s school, FB and twitter aren’t actually relevant. The defense is just posturing for the media-who knows why, other than they can, and they plan on being as unethical as biaz. But they really wouldn’t even bring it up in trial because then GZ’s rep would come in.
I think the state is doing fine. It’s not the trial, it’s just a hearing and they’ve done the what they were supposed to.
Omar is definatly playing dirty. Hopfully it won’t work for him in this case.
O’Mara argues the same thing over and over when denied.
He’s awfully persistent. So is West.
I would call him (MOM) ANNOYING! every hearing he brings up inappropriate business. He is trying to ring the bell months before the trial starts. He and West look like asses.
Defense counsel is trying to CREATE evidence and this “emergency motion” is a way to try to leak an allegation against a witness to inflame the press somehow. We don’t even know what the flap is about but I can guess that O’Mara made something up and wants it out there to be screamed about in the press before it all comes to nothing yet again.
Does anybody see Shellie in the courtroom? I don’t.
Miss Piggy………she was still in the pen outside.
Naughty but funny!
George looks like Hell! His posture is even off — used to hold himself like a little bantam rooster and now his chin is sort of jerked up. Could he be a battered spouse?
LOL if I were ShelLIE, GZ would be a battered spouse. She is facing a felony charge and jail time and GZ’s lies are closing in on them. Plus she has those cold dead eyes who looks seriously capable of physically harming anybody who ticks her off.
It occurred to me, though, jm, that the battered spouse might at this point be Shellie. She’s cooped up with him wherever they are and he’s getting madder and madder and he has nobody to push around but HER. He’s a behavioral addict and a control freak. If she has a black eye, she can’t appear in court. AND whichever doctor used to prescribe adderall for George, you can bet your bottom dollar they’re not going to do that any more, because they’re afraid of liability if George goes off again and shoots somebody else or even does violence without a gun. I wonder about who had originally prescribed it for him. There are many possibilities for contributing causes for George to look as awful as he looks. Although I would like to think it was his conscience, that’s been ruled out.
According to body language experts, the chin jerked up demonstrates anger.
He demonstrated paying no attention to MOM or West at the podium. He is dissatisfied with them. Maybe he thinks they can take over the court and hold an immunity hearing right then and there.
IMO, GZ has listened to the outhouse folks and thinks that with frustration, bullying and harassment, that the State will drop the charges. He doesn’t want to go forth on an immunity hearing. He doesn’t want to go forth to trial. GZ does not want to answer to anyone for his actions on 2/26/12.
GZ blinked a lot — may need new contacts.
He has gained much weight — can’t be healthy.
There was one moment when O’Mara made some inconsequential little mistake and GZ visibly rolled his eyes.
Don’t laugh, but GZ’s astrological chart shows his Virgo in a place that causes him to expect perfection. This can be overcome with certain disciplines when growing up, but if his parents and/or siblings and/or teachers caused him to feel less than perfect, that characteristic already present would give him a dysfunctional sense of judging everyone according to his standard of perfectionism.
GZ is not happy with MOM. We don’t know the results of all the deposes that MOM has conducted and they may not be to GZ’s benefit.
Xena says: “GZ’s astrological chart shows his Virgo in a place that causes him to expect perfection. ”
It must bum GZ big-time to look in the mirror at this stage in his life or even look at his wife who he is starting to look like as far as perfection goes.
That’s the thing. GZ is more inclined to accuse those who see imperfections of being wrong because they MUST agree with his idea of perfectionism.
I don’t know Zimmerman’s idea of perfection, but to me I think it would be in his best interest not to appear to be a bloated pig and this huge weight gain is a sign of lack of self-control. PLUS we know he is selfishly living large on other people’s money because he doesn’t work.
I would consider myself very imperfect to put on 50 some pounds when it is more to my benefit to look thin as if I could possibly think Trayvon was a threat to me.
Looking at him so fat disgusts me when I picture GZ sitting on a dying teen making his death all the more painful.
I think GZ is very troubled right now and probably has been made to face facts by MOM and West. No matter what happened today in court, I was most pleased to see GZ looking so awful, not just the weight gain, but his demeanor, dark circles (which I had not noticed before), pallor and complexion. I think he knows he is toast and with FBI still on the case, things can get worse. As another poster said, with the media blitz by RZ Jr and mother saying GZ is not a racist, it may have to do with further charges coming up from the FBI’s continuing investigation.
“As another poster said, with the media blitz by RZ Jr and mother saying GZ is not a racist, it may have to do with further charges coming up from the FBIās continuing investigation.”
yup I believe that this is the case as well
PYork, if George rolled his eyes, that will end up in an LLMPapa video! The music “Rolling in the Deep” might work, do you think?
Blinking can also be a sign of lying.
I think GZ was blinking out of nervousness. He knows he is toast as evidence closes in on him, exposing his lies and people are scrutinizing every move he makes. He knows he is going to prison unless MOM can pull off a miracle which is not likely. Knowing the FBI is still investigating would make me blink excessively too since GZ was confident he could get over on the Sanford Police Department but this has grown way bigger than he had ever thought it would.
Loved, loved, loved seeing GZ sweat even it was only in the form of excessive blinking.
“Could he be a battered spouse?” We can only hope.
Interesting exchange with West and Crump. West wants to make everything more complicated than it really is. Sounds like Crump and the State have their ducks in a row.
I REALLY REALLY LIKE THIS JUDGE! I believe I see what I believe she is doing. She is saying, “Everybody gets everything” and later on, she will say, “only admissible evidence is admissible.” West and O’Mara are trying to do witness intimidation right in the courtroom and it will not work. I think Nelson is a smart cookie.
Chocolate Chip! š
Yay!
MOM and West are trying to manipulate the judge and public opinion. She’s not having any of it. In essence she has had to tell them both to STFU.
BAM!
Yep…..the toss ’em a cookie theory. This eliminates any chance of appeal on that issue. Whoopte…..Doo
Moron O’ Mara is in over his head and he doesn’t see it.
I think he’s good, although smarmy. The problem is not with the lawyer, but with the case. He can’t get rid of the physical evidence; he can’t argue away or whine away the lab results and the autopsy results. He can’t retroactively change all the things George has already said. O’Mara’s in a tight spot and he’s trying to battle his way far enough out to see enough light to make a plea deal.
Hey, Race, I asked you this before, but do you think Newbee100 is Z? Sure sounds like him.
The information from Trayvon’s schools is all going to be produced but that does not mean that it will give rise to admissible evidence. This is very interesting — so RELEVANCE has not yet been addressed. I think this means that all the information will be produced and must remained privileged (not given to the media) and then, only relevant information from it will be ruled admissible. This has to do with O’Mara trying to prove Trayvon was a thug! In fact I am finding this funny because the Zim-Team will think they just got a windfall but what they got was nothing at all. If Trayvon Martin had a reputation as a dangerous bruiser, that would have been different and I think the situation on that night itself would have possibly been different and Zimmerman would have found out “God’s Plan” a lot sooner.
True, it’s not a surprise and sort of in line with what our Host has suggested. The excitable GZ nuts might get some thrill, but given what we know so far, there’s nothing major or relevant there.
The thrill they’ll get will not be a cheap thrill. I think O’Mara is hoping somebody associated with the prosecution will have committed a “Mark Furman” type offense that can make them play to a jury that the only reason their client was charged with murder was anti-White racism, when in fact the poe-boy was assailed by a well known fearsome thug and only juss hardly done ‘scaped wid his LIFE!
Wow! I didn’t see this coming!
Do tell!
>^^<
Following….
Anyone having a problem getting on Twitter? I can’t get on right now!
When my boys were young children , the eldest pushed his brother off a cabinet that was in the back yard. The younger boy’s head had a half moon shaped split in the back of his head about 2 inches long. The doctor who stitched him up told me the head is like a watermelon when struck on the ground, it splits the same way a watermelon would. GZ’s head would have been split wide open if Trayvon would have been banging his head on the sidewalk.
Vickie, wow, you were up early or late! I’m sure BDLR is going to have some kind of medical expert (trauma E.R. physician, neurosurgeon, somebody like that) testify about the incongruence between the “head-bashing story” and the actual injuries sustained or apparently sustained by Zimmerman that night. The vision of George Zimmerman with a watermelon head just gave me a big laugh!
MOM is a snake. All he wants is to attack a dead childs character and try his case in the media…..he mentions that things went down the way GZ has said and there is no proof otherwise. I have zero respect for MOM he specifically said he wouldn’t try his case in the media……he is nothing short of a media whore.
Exactly! O’Mara is disgusting!
Live now http://www.wftv.com/s/watchlive/
MOM still can’t overcome forensic evidence. Neither can he overcome the fact that his client stated his head was no longer in detriment of being hit on concrete and that he had physical control of Trayvon when he shot and killed him.
MOM is cherry-picking on what GZ said and that is all the “evidence” he wants to present.
I also doubt the sidewalk head bashing theory. A skull being hit on concrete would crack open. Plus there would have been blood spatter and there is no Zimmerman dna on Trayvon’s hands or sleeves
&
Zimmerman doesnt even look beat up… he looks like he fell into a bush that night
He’s doomed LMAO
What I’ve pondered for some time now is why and how GZ’s key chain got on the T when the rest of the crime scene debris is 40 ft away. I want to see if there was a key attached to that key chain. My reason is because one of his wounds (the round one) looks like a stab wound. This is the sequence I see:
(“Get off. Get off.”) GZ used a tactical take-down maneuver on Trayvon. He dropped his key chain in the process. Trayvon MIGHT have gotten it, and stabbed GZ on the head, accidentally turning it on in the process, and causing there to be a change in position. If that is true, that might be a reason why GZ found it necessary to throw or walk the key chain away from the main crime scene debris area.
An EMT wrote a report saying that GZ’s head lacerations were caused by a thrown object. A key used in a stabbing motion could fit that description.
During the wrestling, GZ rolled over, hitting his head on one of those white boxes we see on the ground, causing the scratch. In the alternative, GZ fell on one of those white boxes. The distances between the two lacerations and bruises would determine whether they match the “handle” on those boxes.
The head is round. The sidewalk is flat. I’m not a forensic scientist, but it seems to me that if GZ was having his head banged on sidewalk, that the lacerations would not be as high up on the head. If his head was partially on the sidewalk as he claims, the impact on his neck would have resulted in a “whiplash” type of injury.
Certainly, the distance between the two lacerations does not result from head bashing unless GZ was turning his head — which refutes that Trayvon was holding his head.
Yes, when you look up media whore in the dictionary, there is a picture of MOM and next to him, GZ n Jr.
O’Mara: Mr. Martin’s passing? What? The kid didn’t just pass away. He was killed by George Zimmerman, O’Mara!
Yeah I heard he went peacefully in his sleep
that F’ing guy….smdh
Indeed. Can O’Mara be anymore disgusting? Ugh!
That line sickens me….and many others as well. How about we kick his ass and call it……. “an event.”
George Zimmerman has gained a lot of weight.
GZ also looks kind of drugged (prescription of course). He keeps blinking eyes too. Dark circles around his eyes suggest to me he is having to deal with the inconsistencies and lies he has told are coming back to haunt him.
Zimmerman looks horrible.
More likely from staying up late and answering several blog sites with his POS POV.
Oh he looks real bad alright….to jm & SouthernGirl2..
And we’re damn glad of it !!
@cielo62
More likely from staying up late and answering several blog sites with his POS POV.
True… The Orlando Sentinel is most likely one of them.
@cielo62 and SouthernGirl2: “More likely from staying up late and answering several blog sites with his POS POV.”
I think maybe GZ has been reading Professor Leatherman’s blog and knows he is toast because his lies are exposed here. Obviously while blogging, GZ has been doing a whole lot of snacking. I picture his keyboard with nasty old food stains.
jm,
The dark circles around his eyes are genetic/heredity
We call them “ojos de Mapache” (Raccoon eyes)
RE: jm’s “nasty food stains” comment, here’s an old joke that for some reason got me laughing 20 years ago when it was told to me by a George Zimmerman Look-Alike who hailed from Mississippi:
A guy went to his doctor complaining that women did not want to have sex with him because his genital area was all orange and he couldn’t seem to get the orange color to go away no matter what he showered with. The doctor couldn’t find any reason for the orange stains. He sent him to a dermatologist who also couldn’t find a reason. He referred him to a specialist who began to question him about changes in his life recently. The guy said, “Yeah there’s been some changes in my life ’cause women won’t date me no more.” Questioned further, he offered, “Well every night I watch porn for a couple hours and snack on cheetos.”
š
@jm
Zimmerman may post that nonsense on the Sentinel where the uninformed lap it up but he knows he can’t get away with posting his mountain of lies here. Folks would rip him to shreds.
@SouthernGirl2 I don’t think GZ posts here – but he looks like he may be reading other blogs than the Conservative Treehouse, including Professor Leatherman’s blog.
I sure hope GZ has seen LLMPapa’s youtube videos exposing his lies in an easy to understand and clever way.
Unfortunately, the people who read the Sentinel are more likely to be on the jury.
Who the hell carew how this idiot, lying ass man looks? When you are a liar, the lies catch up to you and he is worrying sick about all that has come out about his lying ass since his last court appearance. His lies are coming back to haunt him and TM’s screams must reign in his head every single night! GOOD!
I received information that the Outhouse folks have posted references and links about this blog, thejbmission, and blackbutterfly7 on the outhouse site. If GZ and/or his family members are reading the outhouse, you can bet that they have paid all the referenced blogs a visit and lurked.
Any vids embedded are certainly available for them to see also.
So, to aggravate GZ a bit more, I would like to take this opportunity to announce that Trent Sawyer, stateoftheinternet, as already posted vids of today’s hearing.
Also, I would like to share the first vid I watched by LLMPapa that really enhanced my interest in this case.
GZ has gain quite a bit of weight. Isn’t he supposed to be trying to get down to skin and bones for the trial?
“GZ has gain quite a bit of weight. Isn’t he supposed to be trying to get down to skin and bones for the trial?”
Obviously GZ has self-control issues.
Actually, all he has to do all day is sit around and worry and eat and worry some more.
I’m not surprised. He’s probably home a lot, depressed, anxious, and perhaps even on antidepressant meds which lead to weight gain. this is the one area to which I can relate to him. But he’ll lose it in prison.
“But heāll lose it in prison.” The weight………………or his marbles.
Live Video: Attorneys for George Zimmerman go to court to ask for access to personal records of Trayvon Martin
http://video.msnbc.msn.com/nbcnews.com/49478983#49478983
Does anyone know if the proceedings being televised anywhere?
I think http://www.wftv.com/s/watchlive/ will show it.
Twitter says True TV will cover it live starting at 1:30 pm EDT. Unfortunately, I do not have a TV and I don’t believe it will be carried streaming live on the internet.
Tru TV……what use to be court tv. Zimmerman’s “new look” isn’t a good look. He better back off the food. He looks more like his 2005 mugshot.
GZ is so bloated he is beginning to look like ShelLIE’s mug shot. Guess since they don’t work and expenses are paid, he and ShelLIE have been eating in their spare time.
It is indeed streaming on orlandosentinel.com
Here ya go Professor, now you all have tv’s:
TV Fanatic | TelevisionFanatic.com
http://tinyurl.com/95ede9l
Ta Da!!!
Many thanks, Lonnie.