The Orlando Sentinel reports today that Mark O’Mara has filed motions in the Zimmerman case seeking,
“records from the FBI, the U.S. Department of Justice, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement and local law-enforcement agencies that would reveal whether investigators found that Zimmerman was motivated by race or acted to deprive Trayvon of his civil rights.”
He claims that he filed these motions because he wants to eliminate race as an issue in this case. Apparently, he believes those law enforcement agencies have no such evidence and will admit that they do not, thereby ending speculation that George Zimmerman is a racist who profiled and killed Trayvon Martin because he is Black.
“In an unusually long blog post Wednesday, O’Mara wrote that if race is a factor in this case, it’s not because of Zimmerman — it’s because Sanford police did not make an immediate arrest.
“While it can be safely argued that it is largely the question of civil rights issues that has made the George Zimmerman case a national — and international — story, there is nothing to support the contention of racism in the Zimmerman case,” O’Mara wrote.
“… race should not be a factor in the George Zimmerman case and should never have been made one,” he concluded. “The Zimmerman defense team is not arguing against civil rights. We are defending a man who claims he shot and killed an attacker in necessary self-defense.”
O’Mara’s claim is nonsense. Race is an issue in this case because George Zimmerman made it an issue when he used a negative racial stereotype to describe Trayvon Martin in an effort to justify killing him in self-defense.
Trayvon Martin had just celebrated his 17th birthday. He was a kid walking home in the rain from an errand to a 7/11 store where he purchased Skittles and a can of iced tea. He was minding his own business talking to his girlfriend when Zimmerman spotted him and started following him first in a vehicle and then on foot. Martin panicked, ran away, and attempted to hide from him, but Zimmerman hunted him down contrary to a request by the SPD NEN dispatcher’s request. Then he shot and killed Martin during a struggle by shooting him at close range in the heart, despite knowing that police were on their way. Martin was unarmed and Zimmerman has admitted to having control of Martin with a wristlock before he pulled out his gun, aimed, and fired.
To escape legal responsibility for this murder, Zimmerman reversed the actual facts claiming that Martin hunted him down, despite having successfully eluded him, sucker-punched in the nose, and jumped on top of him raining down blows MMA-style while uttering B-movie Black gangsta-speak from the late 80s and 90s, and then he grabbed his head and repeatedly slammed it against a concrete sidewalk until he nearly lost consciousness. On the verge of losing consciousness, Zimmerman suddenly remembered he had a gun, unholstered it, and shot him to death.
Zimmerman and O’Mara ask us to believe this racist stereotype despite Zimmerman’s lack of injuries that are consistent with his description of what happened and forensic evidence that refutes it. He would have us believe that, while in mid-conversation with his girlfriend, Trayvon suddenly attacked him without bothering to arm himself with a weapon.
To believe Zimmerman, one must suspend disbelief and see Trayvon Martin as some sort of super Black gangsta that only exists in dated B movies.
Sorry, but I am not buying what O’Mara is selling. Zimmerman cannot credibly claim that he is not responsible for injecting race into this case when he is the person who is attempting to escape responsibility for murder by claiming he had to kill in self-defense because Trayvon Martin was some sort of super Black gangsta that only exists in dated B movies.
BTW, no one should hold their breath expecting “the FBI, the U.S. Department of Justice, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement and local law-enforcement agencies,” to fall over each other in an effort to tell everyone that they have concluded that George Zimmerman is not a racist. O’Mara will get the discovery to which he is entitled as it is released and no special accommodation will be made for this request.
Because I believe he should know this, I assume this is yet another effort to try his case in the court of public opinion instead of a courtroom and yet another sign that he is not ready for prime time.
Frederick Leatherman Law Blog 
I’m surprised there are no more entries to my GZ Halloween contest. Let me prime the pump a bit:
For Holloween George Zimmerman is going to dress as a: ___________ [fill in the blank]
A priest administering the sacrament;
A judge;
A good father of many as yet unborn babies;
A little hero;
Curtis Sliwa;
A mentor;
A guy with a thousand African American friends who love him dearly;
A graduate of a local community college;
A plaintiff in a big lawsuit for slander;
A contender;
Mark Osterman;
Frank Taaffe;
A Mexican;
The second most-hated man in America;
A winner on “Dancing with the Stars”;
A winner of any kind.
Zimmerman lies and acts so much, everyday is Halloween for him, including the scary Michael Myers killer part in them Halloween movies
Has anyone seen the movies Jeeper Creepers and Jeeper Creepers2? That is what GZ reminds me of. He can make himself look like almost anything in order to deceive.
So unless Shellie is pregnant already, there may be a tiny hitch in at least one part of their plan.
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN TRIAL DATE SET FOR JUNE 10, 2013
Over at the Outhouse, a comment of mine awaits moderation. I wrote it in response to somebody saying that Trayvon’s records at school will show that he was not a scholar and did not have a perfect attendance record. She wanted his family to be at peace one day by accepting his “negative side.” This goes along with my conversation there in response to the thug who claimed that “Trayvon Martin got justice on 2/26/2012.”
So now, not so many people there are shreiking at me, and the volume has turned down, and fewer folks are claiming to have evidence of wrongdoing on the part of the dead victim, but in response to the last “defend George by slandering Trayvon” volley I wrote this:
========================
[Name Omitted], why should you, the Zimmerman family, or anybody else find it necessary to psychoanalyze the survivors of a child who was killed by an armed stranger in a housing development without police presence, hoping that they are someday “able to accept” the negative side of their deceased child? Is that an important issue for you? For the law? For our society? That survivors of homicide victims accept their decedents’ “negative sides”? Especially when the “negative side” was first described to them by their child’s killer? Let’s see how that would work for folks who were killed OTHER THAN Trayvon Martin.
Should the survivors of Sharon Tate come to grips with her “negative side”? Let’s say her murderers thought she responded to them very negatively that night — would you agree that their opinions should be taken seriously?
How about John Lennon. Surely he had a negative side? Would Yoko Ono have done wrong not to have taken her husband’s killer’s word for it?
ON and on — which kinds of people have to seriously consider, and take to heart, the opinions expressed against their decedents by the individuals who killed them. Let’s say somebody killed your kid and the person who did says, “That child is to blame; HE TRIED TO HURT ME AND I HAD TO KILL HIM.” Do you think you would believe that person — the “authority figure” you were informed by the police came upon your kid one evening and shot him in the heart? Or is it just the Fulton-Martin family who are obligated to consider the point of view of their son’s killer? Are they the kind of people you think should take the word of their son’s killer as being authoritative?
What kind of person has a “negative side” so overwhelming that some stranger is entitled to KILL HIM and, in addition, his family is required to admit that he deserved it?
Perhaps a person who is not an “academic scholar” and who did not win any perfect attendance awards?
Well, according to what we know so far, that would describe George Zimmerman. So maybe while his family complains about death threats, it is more important for them to hunker down and start accepting their son’s/brother’s NEGATIVE SIDE!
==========================
How utterly disgusting their attack on the dead Trayvon Martin is. How shamelessly they create a double standard. To them, the family of the shooter should be out and about screaming their son’s glory and wonderfulness and blamelessness and perfection and charity and godliness and honesty and goodness while the family of the dead teen should be home, covering their heads in shame that their son was not perfect, that they let a kid go out into the world walking around with candy and money and a cell phone and iced tea when for all they know he might have “mouthed off” against a creepy stranger who was stalking him on a rainy evening. THEY NEED TO ACCEPT HIS NEGATIVE SIDE because it was their fault that they raised him to be so “up to no good” that he had to get killed by a wise, religious, not-white man who didn’t know him. THEY created the problem by putting a teen-ager out there in the world who displeased George Zimmerman, the lord and master, the decider, the godly good guy, on 2/26/2012. So because of all their faults and flaws and shortcomings and socioeconomic and political misdeeds, they caused this terrible thing to happen. How dare they complain of it, considering their guilt!
Do these folks, who believe this and who adopt this frame of reference, have a diagnosable mental disorder or are they that unintelligent — somebody tell me — please!
Powerful Malisha!!! Well said and I wholeheartedly concur!!!!
First of all, you do know that your comment will not show up there, or I guess I should say I would be extremely surprised if it does.
Next, I don’t give a rat’s ass if Trayvon WAS a thug and had a past history of thugism or whatever. George Zimmerman shot and killed a 17-year-old young man, thug or not.
I am sure Trayvon was no angel. He was a 17-year-old boy. My son was 17 once and was no angle. I have said many a time, if my son had not come home one night and the police came and told me that he had been shot and killed, unarmed and the killer said it was self-defense and since there was no one to say otherwise, they just let him go, do you think I would say, “Okay, thanks officer. That is fine, he was just a thug anyway.” Is there ANY parent who would accept that? This is the very thing that I was always worried about when my son was younger, but do you think if this had happened to my son I would say, “Dang kid, I warned you. Guess you got what you deserved.” NO. I would not. It is not that I would not know that my son is no angel, it is that there is something very wrong with a society that says it is okay for someone to kill an unarmed juvenile and say it was in self-defense and because no one can say otherwise, they are just let go and the decision if it was self-defense or not is made upon the character of the dead person.
Nahh, it doesn’t work that way for me.
I would want a complete investigation and that shooter brought to trial. I would want THAT person’s character brought into it. I mean who has a reason to lie more than anyone about self-defense in this matter than George, the only one who really knows what happened. It is just plain WRONG that someone can shoot an unarmed young person and walk without having to be accountable.
But it seems like every bit of sewage spewed about at the outhouse with regard to Trayvon and his family can be said for GZ too. He has tattoos, he has a chaotic family history/situation, a history of questionable friends, poor grades, and he has a history of violence, pursuing, lying, little hero complex, etc.
If the situation were reversed and it was one of their children – good or bad – would they just accept the word of someone like GZ? REALLY?
I’ve said this before – I believe that well over half of that sewage in the outhouse, had it been their child, they would not even rely on the court system. They would take their beloved guns and serve “justice” in their own way – and then find a reason it was
okay.
Yes, there is something wrong with the toxic sewage spewed about at the outhouse, because I know that if it were their child. . .
rachael says: “Yes, there is something wrong with the toxic sewage spewed about at the outhouse……..”
The toxic sewage is why I can’t even look at the posts there because it makes me depressed that there are human beings out there with so much brain damage resulting in this distorted way of thinking and the insanity is not limited to GZ and the Zimmerman clan.
@jm: Excellent post jm! On my lunch break, yesterday, I wanted to re-read about the history of the KKK, The Emancipation Proclamation, The Reconstruction Period in the U.S. so I googled in Wikipedia The Fee Encyclopedia. I have read many, many times about the history of those periods and how the KKK came to be, but this time, I wanted to get a picture on why their are so many hateful racist whites who want to deny justice to TM and why and I see why.
When you read how former slaves were treated during the Reconstruction Period, how black people were viewed as a 1/3 of a person. How racists whites still viewed black people despite their freedom from slavery. Laws actually had to be implemented so that blacks could have the same basic Read below:
“Soon after the end of Reconstruction, starting in the 1870s, Southern Democratic legislators found other means to deny the vote to blacks, through violence, intimidation, and Jim Crow laws. From 1890 to 1908, 10 Southern states wrote new constitutions with provisions that included literacy tests, poll taxes, and grandfather clauses that permitted otherwise disqualified voters whose grandfathers voted (thus allowing some white illiterates to vote), some with the aim and effect of re-imposing racially motivated restrictions on the voting process that disenfranchised blacks.”
You have racists to this day who still have this pervasive racist mindset that blacks should still be denied the right to vote, and the right to justice, the right to attend a college or universtiy, or the right to reside anywhere that they wish. Blacks should have NO rights at all according to the racist mentality! So when I read the disparaging comment about TM, his family and other blacks, I see in those people, the exact same behavior in racists whites of the past. They do not view TM as a human being. He is an inanimate object. A thing, an animal not to be viewed as a human being deserving of the same rights that they have. Peace everyone!
Malisha,
You are an indefatigable warrior and I respect you for your willingness to, symbolically speaking, go to Hell to confront Satan and his minions.
I’m going to ask you a short series of questions that I only ask you to consider. You need not answer them here, unless you choose to do so.
As one warrior to another who does not pretend to know the answer, have you truly considered that you are not likely to change their minds using logic and shame as your weapons? Why do you believe you have the personal power to bring the light that will at last penetrate the dark thrall in which they so desperately bind themselves?
Do you believe it’s your duty?
If so, why?
There are many people in this world who willfully choose to blind themselves to the truth. Eventually, they will encounter it on a deeply personal level in their lives. They will suffer great pain and they will deserve it.
A wise warrior collects and saves her personal power. She chooses her battles carefully. Are you empowering or disempowering yourself with this quest?
I can’t help myself. This is what I said to the Outhouse Crowd:
BTW, nobody needs evidence that Trayvon Martin was “no punk.” This is America, where a person does not need to show “their papers” in the street to any self-appointed Gestapo who’s wandering around. This is America, where a person doesn’t have to stand at attention and give a perfect stranger his or her dog-tag number and rank and i.d. upon demand. This is America where a person is not considered “a punk” until or unless there is what our Constitution calls “due process of law” and if you do choose to call a living person “a punk” and they don’t like it, this is America where they can sue you for slandering them. This is America, where we do not decide that one of our neighbors who is walking along minding his own business and talking to his own girlfriend on his own cell phone needs to be rousted, targeted and killed. And if we DO decide that such a person is a “punk” and needs to be killed and we act on this urge, this is America where we are innocent until proven guilty and where a law enforcement officer may very well decide to try to PROVE us guilty and where, if that LEO convinces a jury of our peers that we are guilty, we will probably pay the price as set forth by the criminal law put into place by our elected officials.
So whereas Trayvon Martin died before any court of law made any findings against him, George Zimmerman will probably live long enough for us to find out whether he is proven guilty or not. And after all is said and done, I will still agree with Law Enforcement Officer Serino who observed, during an interview with George Zimmerman, that Trayvon Martin was “not a punk.”
Did I know Trayvon Martin? NO. Neither did George Zimmerman. Had I met Trayvon Martin, though, I would not have presumed he was a punk or a thug and I would not have killed him.
(((((APPLAUSE)))))
At the Outhouse, I was actually challenged to show evidence that Trayvon Martin was not a thug! That’s how much those guys know about the law. (Damn, they’re gonna all have to go back and watch more TV and see if they can learn a little.)
So, the Outhouse folks think that any Joe Blow citizen can decide who is or isn’t a punk and kill them. Then, it’s up to the parents, friends and supporters to prove the kid wasn’t a punk. Sorry to be blunt, but the Outhouse folks reason like child sexual predators and rapists. That’s the type of defense they use.
Exactly. Rather than admitting that the prosecution can present overwhelming evidence of the guilt of the shooter, they come in with what they hope will be a new algorithm for acquittal:
“Unless the prosecution can prove beyond ANY DOUBT that the victim was perfect in every way, nothing that was done to him can be considered a crime.”
It shifts the burden from “Prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the killer violated Florida law,” to “Prove beyond any doubt that the victim did not deserve to be victimized in any way the shooter chose to victimize him.” Not contemplated by Florida law. Also, per se insane.
@Malisha.
It’s the same logic they use in their personal lives. Family court judges hear it everyday that they hold court. THERE IS NO GETTING THROUGH TO THEM.
Trayvon’s Mom IS a cupcake. She’s obviously a sweet woman and a doting mother. She has the kind of straight-forward meet-your-gaze look about her that seemed to show in pictures of Trayvon and her other son as well.
Zimmerman made race an issue with his false description of Trayvon Martin BEFORE killing him. Zimmerman’s crew are making race even more of an issue with their continued false description of Trayvon Martin AFTER Zimmerman killed him. They seem to lack all sense not only of proper behavior but also of proportion. They have been screaming like monkeys in a forest fire about my calmly pointing out that Trayvon Martin was not a thug. If they keep this up we’ll have to have another DOJ investigation about why all the people who knew Trayvon all his life failed to charge him with crimes such as rape, larceny, possession with intent to distribute, racketeering, treason, assassination and falling from a great height. They’re actually foaming at the mouth over at the Outhouse. And I recognize, in all this idiotic bluster, a sort of Hitlerian propaganda war that they are waging. To defend Zimmerman from charges of murder and associated racism, they are coming unglued to try to prove that the victim deserved the crimes. If you go to the Holocaust Museum in DC, you can see a whole exhibit on how this works. The more the abusers commit crimes against the victims, the more violently they have to justify their conduct by showing how evil the victims were to deserve such treatment.
They can’t just stop and say: “OK, we hurt them because we wanted to and because we could not control ourselves.”
Of course. John Wayne Gacy tried it. He said his victims were male prostitutes or rebellious against parents. He still got the needle.
The outhouse folks can try as they may to thugify Trayvon, but when it comes time for GZ’s immunity hearing and trial, the court is not going to allow that. See, GZ’s efforts to thugify Trayvon all center on his story about Trayvon coming out of the shadows. Once the State establishes GZ’s location per his interview with Serino and Singleton questioning his whereabouts on his NEN call, game’s over for GZ.
some info for tomorrow…
Shellie
http://www.seminoleclerk.org/CriminalDocket/case_detail.jsp?CaseNo=592012CF001792A
GZ
http://www.seminoleclerk.org/CriminalDocket/case_detail.jsp?CaseNo=592012CF001083A
Good night …..
Wow, I was at the outhouse and they started this “law and order” rant about Trayvon Martin! It’s so far out radar doesn’t reach it! One of them is showing that Trayvon Martin had no respect for women! (George is what, a disrespected woman in disguise now?) I’m writing down what they say and using it — I’ll tell you how later, when I have something to show for it, tee hee hee! 😈
Trayvon called his mom “cupcake.” Zimmerman didn’t call his mom at all.
“John Galt” over at the outhouse was responding to something or someone who used the words “justice for Trayvon Martin,” and he posted the sentence that Trayvon Martin got justice on 2/26/2012. Which is interesting only in that it admits that George and his support team believe that it was appropriate for him to unilaterally accuse, convict, sentence and execute Trayvon Martin for some crime. They are not ashamed to say things like this! It was always interesting to me that although George claims he was afraid for his life on 2/26/2012, he told Sean Hannity that HE knew that Trayvon was NOT “skipping” away from him for the reason of “fear.” So not only has George (and then his back-up singers) decided that he can tell us what HE felt that night, he can also tell us what his victim felt.
I tried to just post “Trayvon Martin was not a thug” over there again because it looked like it got them all riled up and freaked out; but it wouldn’t let me just repeat the same message so I said:
October 16, 2012 at 1:47 pm
“All those folks who claim that Trayvon Martin was a thug are wrong and have no evidence behind any of their combative and belligerent statements. No evidence has been adduced against Trayvon Martin but plenty has been adduced already against his killer.”
Perhaps that will keep them on an adrenalin high for another 24 hrs. 😈
Oh NOW I see why the Outhouse folks are so down on DeeDee and Trayvon; it’s because DeeDee and Trayvon said the wrong thing!
Trayvon should not have said, “Why are you following me?” He should have said, “Why are you going in the same direction I am going so that you can keep an eye on me and tell the police where I am going?”
DeeDee should have said, “So Trayvon told me, ‘there’s a creepy guy going in the same direction I am going so that he can keep an eye on me and tell the police where I am going.”
Finally, I see what they mean! George is soooooo misunderstood!
LMAO!!
SH: Were you following him as you said on the 911-call?
GZ: No, I was not following him. I meant I was going in the same direction he was going so that I can keep an eye on him and tell police where he was going.
Judge Lester: WTF?!
GZ went too far with that one. He apparently doesn’t realize that he is trying to say that; because he thought about ending a relationship, the relationship had actually ended. Sorry George, you can think all you want about canceling that lease you just signed, or backing out of that promise you made, but until you do something physical to make the other parties aware of what you intend, your relationship remains intact!
Trayvon detected you following him and you admitted to the NEN dispatcher that you were in fact following him. Thus you have created a relationship with Trayvon that you can only end by informing him that, that relationship has now ended. When the chance for you to do so came, you let it go without acknowledgement. He said “what are you following me for”, or “Do you have a problem Homie?”, either way, that was your chance to end the hostile relationship you had created!
Instead you chose to allow the hostile relationship to persist, knowing that it’s “fruit” might very well be a defensive assault on yourself! I don’t believe on occurred, because there’s no evidence of it, nor does your chosen opponent present as an able combatant, even while you, yourself do! But the point to be made is that, you invited an assault upon yourself, by maintaining a hostile attitude! I have no doubt that you invited an assault because, with your concealed firearm, you knew you had the best defense!
It wasn’t “his gun”, it wasn’t “the gun”… It was “your gun!” You brought it, you paid for it, you obtained the license and training for it, and you knew where it was and that it was loaded in “plus 1” condition. If that gun was displayed in any way, that display was caused by your maintaining a hostile environment. Thus it was your own damned fault that the gun was revealed, if it was. The law says that under such conditions, anyone who see it, has a right to take it away from you! You have no right to draw it and fire on any challenger, after you cause the challenge. If you had withdrawn, you would have taken the only available weapon with you and no one would have been killed.
I’m so sorry for you George, but you’ve admitted to murder 2. Now you must lay down and take your medicine like a man, or keep sniveling like some murderous child, who can’t comprehend how terrible he is in the eyes of the world. Keep ranting and raging, sniveling and lying, you are destroying any sympathy anyone might have had for your cause. But, no matter what you do, remember this: A Judgement will be imposed for what you have done, and you will have to live with it! Be Gone Satan!!!
@Lonnie Starr. Preach it!!!
@ Malisha & Xena: Please keep up the good work! Keep blasting those racist bigots over there! Keep defending TM and continue to chastise them for their offensive, negative, reprehensive and contemptible statements about TM! Let them know how childish they are, not to mention stupid and ignorant! Keep the focus on GZ, his past criminal record, and the fact that he is not only white, but Hispanic and if GZ had murdered a white teen, they would be calling him all kinds of racial epithets! GZ would become the poster boy for immigration and job stealing! The fact that you are there means that you are not afraid to speak out and they expect the people over there to be just like them…RACISTS AND BIGOTS!! GOOD JOB MY SISTERS! There is that enrages a bigot more than when white individual stands up to bigotry and racism! Racists HATE THAT!
@Deborah. I am humbled, but please don’t give me credit I don’t deserve. Malisha arms herself with the sword of truth and goes into the lion’s den. I don’t. LOL. I do support blogs that support Justice for Trayvon. My patience with ignorant, hateful, dishonest, rude bigots is not high. I know their playbook. One of their intents is to consume unnecessary time and energy with their nonsense.
The Zidiots visit blogs supporting justice for Trayvon, so I figure there’s no reason to go knocking on their door. I do appreciate the efforts of those carrying their sword of truth who do. If I had more time, I just might bring out my fireproof armor and support them in the hellholes.
New Genre of Jokes: For Holloween George Zimmerman is going to dress as a: ___________ [fill in the blank]
1st entry: Clueless Horseman
What’s the prize for the correct answer, Malisha?
I’ll award a prize. Give me a chance to think about what it should be.
Prison guard.
Robert Zimmerman, Jr. to trick or treat at the airport.
The Grim Neighborhood Watchman Reaper
Halloween is coming up… so be sure to not let your kids, nephews, nieces, cousins, or any other kids near any Conservative Tinfoil Hat Member or the Zimmermans, because you know, according to them, candy on kids = imminent danger of death…
It’s actually worst, Jun. Someone posted there that this year, he was handing out Skittles to the Black kids, and Kel-Tec 9mms to the White kids. The following blog reported on it:
http://dothprotesttoomuch.com/2012/10/15/the-truth-really-does-have-an-agenda
Yeah I seen that earlier. I hope that guy got his profile address outed and that he gets looked at by authorities because that is a credible threat being stated over facebook.
It was posted on the conservativedoghouse. Is it also on Facebook? What it tells is that some hateful adult thinks it’s alright to teach children racial hatred and not just hatred, but killing of other kids.
I’m turning in now. (zzzzzz)
Jun, stoppit, STOPPIT, I snorted my morning coffee! That’s knock-me-down hilarious! 😀 😆
so very true Mr Leatherman i love reading your blogs
I just posted, “Trayvon Martin was not a thug” on the Outhouse.
Just for fun. I think I’ll post that same message everywhere the “truthicrackers” blog. 😎
@Malisha. Turn the light on, and they squirm like cockroaches or respond like drive-by shooters, or write a book on “This is how it happened” describing Trayvon as a giant weighing 300 lbs who lived in the community for more than a year breaking into houses. Then the first will change handles and congratulate her alter-ego for telling you “the truth.” LOL!
When some of us wonder why the family would support George after he “tailed” and tried to restrain and then killed a kid, and then expressed absolutely no remorse for his act and lied about his victim to escape punishment, I have this suggestion to offer as a reason:
The would do no different themselves. He is not different from them; he just acted on his impulse when the rest of them have not yet done so — to our knowledge.
Family members who speak to the media in support of accused family members generally say along the lines:
“We trust the judicial system. George has a fabulous legal team working for him, and we know they are doing their best. The truth will come out in court.”
They don’t talk about what a great person he is, how many sheets of toilet paper he uses to wipe his behind, stuff like that.
Xena, they’re talking about what a great person he is because he has been victimized unjustly by a gang of schemers who spew hate all over him simply because he wanted to protect his community by killing an unarmed kid. Since he already TOLD us that he did nothing wrong, it’s a terrible thing to try to blame him, see? So he needs his family and “friends” to tell everyone how wonderful he is.
BUT anybody who should try to tell us all how wonderful Trayvon Martin was, that’s a different matter. George’s support team has already shown that Trayvon was a thug because otherwise George wouldn’t have had to kill him!
Uh, right. All people who kill others should be able to go free without investigation and the public should keep their mouths shut because if the local police said the killer’s word is good enough, then it’s good enough.
Of course, it also helps to have an officer visit witnesses and tell them who was screaming and what they saw. It’s even better when the killer has abandoned their residence and disappeared so no witnesses can look at his guilty face neither question him as to why he’s still walking the streets.
This is where the rubber meets the road, because if Trayvon was a thug, Zimmerman should have kept his behind in his truck. Oh — but he had “THE GUN,” and that deputized him. Sure. Absolutely. Is there a bridge for sell?
When did kid walking home with candy and ice tea and a heart stickered cell phone equate “dangerous threat to the community”?
Let us see, they are mad at Obama, for doing nothing wrong
They blame the media for posting pics of Trayvon’s baby face (oops sorry Conservative Tinfoil Hat, we wanted to send you Trayvon’s adult photos when he was 30 but, you know, impossible, since he just turned 17)
They attack and intimidate a kid for being a witness who happens to be black
They threaten Crump, Natalie Jackson, Trayvov’s family
They threaten another victim of George’s, his cousin, who has alleged rape for over 10 years (I am wondering if this is a learned habit in the Zimmerman household)
They sound like typical redneck racists… they attack the media, since they push for a peaceful and multicultural society… they attack anyone that is black… they give a thumbs up for incest rape…
Conservative Treehouse aka the Tinfoil Hat surely are right… the truth has no agenda… the truth is rather disgusting of who they are…
A correction. It was sexual abuse, not rape. She said he never penetrated her. I doubt that an 8 yr old boy could, but still wonder where he got the “Just say we’re laying down” from.
Right on with all the rest.
In other words the Zimmermans are a family of cowardly, lying weasels?
@Malisha: Great post! When I think of family members who have supported and stood up for their loved one who wrecked havoc upon others, these family members have maintained quiet dignity. It cannot be easy for them to know that the individual that they raised and gave birth too, has hurt so many people while inflicting pain upon another individual and their actions resulted in the death of another. Remember Cindy Anthony? To know that her daughter murdered her own child, must have been horrible for her and to have to admit that to herself was more than she could take. She not only lost Caylee, but Casey as well, and I know her marriage is not the same after her own child lied about her dad.
Scott Peterson’s mother came to court everyday, with an Oxygen tank helping her to breathe, and she still sat there daily and supported Scott, knowing in her heart what he did to her daughter in law Lacey and her grand-baby Connor. She never disparaged Lacey or denigrated Lacey’s family in any way. She kept the focus on her love for her son. No matter how henious and disgusting I think Scott P. is? His family conducted themselves the way a family should!
The Z family? They embrace racists and bigots instead of putting these people on blast and denouncing them and refusing their donations along with the NRA. They go on the Internet and denounce President Obama, Civil Rights organizations, Rev. Sharpton and Jackson, and the attorneys for the Martin/Fulton family. They set up a “begging” website to solicit donations for their stupid, devious, lying, murdering son. The same son that Papa Z was indifferent to, while his wife abused him according to GZ! No wonder GZ turned out to be a diabolical socio-path.
They’re not racists, yet, all of their attacks have been on black people, who have nothing to do with the murder case, with the exception of Jackson & Crump…
Many people besides Obama have spoken on the subject, including Mitt Romney, yet, Obama is targeted by them…
things that make you go hmmm…
I guess it isn’t just me!!
http://dothprotesttoomuch.com/2012/10/15/the-truth-really-does-have-an-agenda/
LOL Rachael – I was just coming here to post that link too. Put together nicely…and he/she asks the same question that I want an answer to: Why hasn’t mainstream media picked up on this and ran with it – I mean with Junior doing media campaign and all about how his family is not racist…. (cough, cough)
Anyone who admires Breitbart and wants his readers to be like Breitbart most certainly is only interested in spreading lies because that is what Breitbart did. The treehouse is a racist hangout and it says a lot about the Zimmermans that it’s their favored internet site. Trayvonstruth at dothprotesttoomuch nails the racist point.
Just in case some here are unfamiliar with the late Breitbart.
Rachel, you pointed out: “There is just something wrong here, something very wrong. I know I am not putting it into words very well, but there is just something very wrong here for so many reasons, including internet, TV, social media and it just makes me wonder about justice in the future, how this will all work when it comes to our justice system.”
This already IS our justice system, unfortunately. O’Mara’s no baby in these woods. He is carrying on and trying to achieve “trial by litany” whereby he can snow a jury by repeating things over and over (“not racist” “in fear for his life” “broken nose” “mentoring kids” “protecting his neighborhood” “helped to arrest burglars” “concerned about his wife’s safety” “blah blah blah blah blah blah blah”) although they are empty evidence-free immaterial, irrelevant, incompetent pompodoodleeboos. It is my guess that this is just bluster to raise money and lower expectations (of justice). Then they will plead George out. But if it should come to a real trial, clearly he would have very little to work with, and he would have to try to rely upon impressions (of George as a great guy who was put into a terrible situation because of God’s plan, or something like that) rather than any real flaw in the evidence.
The evidence is, at this point, very firm. NOTHING can be discovered or discoverable about Trayvon that changes the evidence. The evidence is that George had malice (“assholes always get away” “fucking punks” “Shit, he ran”) and intent (“Are you following him?” “Yeh”) and that he murdered Trayvon Martin (“I pulled out my gun and I aimed, and I was careful not to shoot my other hand, and I fired one shot”) with a bullet that went straight into his heart in a straight line at no angle (autopsy report) while he was not in danger of either great bodily harm or death. No amount of “racism” or any other silly diversion can change those facts.
Heck, we could ALL be racist against George for whatever reason and he could be a perfectly non-racist, unprejudiced, kind, loving, fair-minded non-violent person for all we know but even if he were, his profiling, stalking and killing Trayvon Martin on 2/26/2012 was a crime and it was most likely the crime of second degree murder.
So regardless of how “screwed” our justice system often is, and regardless of how much George’s team carries on, the mere fact that the physical evidence is undeniable and that the world is watching will mean that this media circus will only be able to keep playing its old, tired, cheap tunes; it will not be able to get George a “pass” and he will not ride any of those circus elephants out of the big tent.
Oh, and remember the last round of stupid stuff coming out of the defense? Woof tickets being sold for a slander suit against NBC. Anybody file yet? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ❗
And with regard to the above, here is what is going on elsewhere.
😦
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/10/15/10-15-george-zimmerman-case-open-discussion-thread/
LOL rachael. You are very brave going over to CTH. They literally sicken me.
They sicken me too and I leave there torn between anger and hurt, trembling with anger and crying with a deep pain that hurts my core. But I do want to keep up on what is happening elsewhere, but I don’t know why. It isn’t as if I can change anything, at least not at “those” places. There are several others that I have stopped going to because it is just too hurtful as a human being to know I share this earth, the air with people like that. But sometimes it is important to know. Sometimes I need to see the elephant because I have been an ostrich for so many years, not seeing it and thinking everything was fine.
It is not.
I just went over and read the stuff at Outhouse and didn’t cry or feel the least bit upset. The more they agitate about the irrelevant stuff, the more they show that they are ignoring the relevant stuff. They all have their panties in twists because their “thug thug thug thug” thing is not ruling the day for anyone but themselves and to comfort themselves, they are imagining anybody ELSE cares about their disreputable b*llsh*t.
Reading them gives me a sense of security; they not only “got nothin,” but better yet, they act like angry impotent middle schoolers who didn’t get what they wanted. When I see that level of resentment and rage, I realize: THEY’RE LOSING AND THEY CAN’T STAND THE FEELING.
Take comfort. 🙂
@Rachael. You have a strong stomach. I only go there to collect comments for a separate matter involving cyberharrassment. Even then, the ignorance makes me very, very. laughable sad. For instance, the cyberharrasser actually believes that activity to a blog is based on the number of comments — having no clue about the number of “hits,” re-blogging, and referrals to social media. IOWs, she has no clue of the information available to blog administrators.
It’s just another demonstration for how some people in their superiority mindset think they know everything while revealing their ignorance.
@Xena: I went over to that Conservative website and was just laughing my head off! Those folks in their racist superiority are laughable! You just cannot let your emotions get the best of you when it comes to sub humans like that. Black people have had to fight that type of bigotry and racism for decades! I also found it interesting that a poster from Youtube was on that site: Diwatiman! He post the most bias and racist comments on Youtube and i routinely call him out. So when I saw his name over on that site, I went straight over to Youtube where he posts tapes and his opinions,(more like racist ideology) and put his ass on blast for all to see! I should have known someone like that would be over there! Those idiots over there have nothing to offer but more lies and distortions! They are all just angry because the truth is coming out and it is not what they want to hear. LOL!
It’s their ignorance that stands — no screams out!! They have no clue about rules of evidence; attorney-client privilege; self-defense law; immunity hearings; case decisions; judicial procedures. They still want to know why GZ does not have a speedy trial, not understanding that he waived that right and can do so. They still talk about a jury of 12 when it is a jury of 6. They still want to know why there was no grand jury when the State of Florida does not require a grand jury for non-capital crimes.
Chances are that they will celebrate with 6-packs and back-patting at the next hearing when the State does not argue West’s latest motion, not understanding that the Rules provide the State with time to file a written response.
Their way of defending Zimmerman is by denigrating Trayvon beyond what GZ has stated. Their agenda is that if they can intimidate enough, frustrate enough, lie enough, insult enough, that the State will dismiss the charges.
Essentially, they believe that they are O’Mara’s legal team giving him legal advice, not realizing that he is pimping them out for support and donations.
GZ is still homeless and unemployed with a GPS ankle bracelet tracking his every move. His wife is still awaiting trial. His parents, according to them, are living like vagabonds. His sister lost her job after colluding to hide money, and Junior says he had to quit his job because of threats. (Who knew where he worked?) Yet, CTH folks blame it on Blacks.
I suppose in an ironic sort of way, since Trayvon was Black and GZ profiled, stalked, hunted, restrained, then killed him, that race can be blamed for GZ’s actions. His actions are the consequences for his family. But, it’s all God’s plan.
Do you think some of the posters could be perhaps RZ, Jr and maybe even GZ? Would MOM want to employ someone to post to spin the truth and confuse issues to sway public opinion and drum up more defense money?
I can’t believe normal everyday people would get that involved to post stupidity daily.
IMO, when you read mantras of what Trayvon purportedly did to GZ, it MIGHT be GZ or a member of his family posting that. The ignorant mumbo-jumbo about legal procedure comes from folks who spit out whatever is on their little uneducated minds regarding how they think the judicial system works. Although, I’ve also considered that the “dismiss” mantras might be GZ based on his surrogates going to the media with his story in effort to prevent investigation and charges.
A spoiled child who harasses parents until getting their way will think they can harass and bully others too, but NO judge can grant relief not requested and the State is not about to request dismissal of the 2nd degree murder charge.
@Xena: >> It’s their ignorance that stands — no screams out!! They have no clue about rules of evidence; attorney-client privilege; self-defense law; immunity hearings; case decisions; judicial procedures. They still want to know why GZ does not have a speedy trial, not understanding that he waived that right and can do so. They still talk about …
I would think that if I was not familiar with the law, I would read as much as I could about the law, and whatever I did not understand, I would ask someone who can interpret what all of this means so I can have an understanding of some of what I am reading. These sub-humans don’t bother to read anything! I still continue to read the same questions over and over from ignorant Zimbots like this! You find yourself saying the same things over and over, which I now refuse to do.
The one they ask the most, is why GZ does not have the right to a speedy trial? When you explain to these idiots that GZ waived his rights which is his right to do so, they find something to harp on. MOM made a deal with the devil. What I also find laughable is now they are stating that Ben Crump is in trouble, Natalie Jackson is in trouble, Dee Dee is a liar because she was coached by Ben Crump, and that TM had two cell phones. One to conduct his drug dealing and the other to talk to friends! Amazing isn’t it how delusional they are!! LOL!
Well Deborah, that’s because you know things such as, not to take the word “stalking” to try to find a legal loophole in that statute to defend a 2nd degree murder charge.
I would ask someone who can interpret what all of this means so I can have an understanding of some of what I am reading.
That’s because you are humbled and unashamed with introducing yourself to others who are legal professionals or might just have some knowledge to add. When I found this blog and read comments, I could see that intelligent, sincere discussion was happening with a focus on educating and respect for opinions.
Why should they read when they have a blog giving them the argument of the month?
LMAO. And don’t forget, they also argue that President Obama is holding things up until after the election so he can gain the votes of the RACISTS who want to see GZ convicted.
“Do you think some of the posters could be perhaps RZ, Jr and maybe even GZ?”
I believe that GZ posts on the CTH, and that he uses more than one name. And the one’s I believe to be GZ have a cop-like Avatar. I could be wrong, but I think “gbishop1” is GZ.
I also believe the “Anonymous” posts correcting the “lies” in Osterman’s book were written by GZ. The “corrections” to the “lies” seemed like facts that only GZ could know.
Hmmmm – http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-zimmerman-discovery-complaints-20121015,0,4408070.story
IMO, O’Mara and West are blowing a whole lot of smoke to try and muddy the waters and get some more funds from the GZ fans. I doubt it’s a coincidence that these motions are being filed as GZ’s noxious family makes another round of media apperances. It has more of the feel of a PR campaign as opposed to a credible defense strategy.
The vast majority of the requests are not relevant to what happened the night that GZ killed TM. The only thing that makes sense to me it that O’Mara mught have been notified that other charges (Federal?) are going to filed against GZ and he’s trying to get ahead of the next media storm?
@ks – YES!!! That is it. That is what I was trying to say in a post above, ” It has more of the feel of a PR campaign as opposed to a credible defense strategy.”
That is EXACTLY what it is. I do not think this does credit to GZ OR our legal system and I hope that a media circus like this is not a peek into the future as to what our justice system is in for.
Haven’t seen you in awhile.
Welcome back.
You said,
I agree. I keep remembering GZ’s cynical and manipulative last-minute effort to change the deal with Barbara Walters to get a month free in a hotel at NBC’s expense. I don’t see any sign of honesty or respect for the truth in him.
His legal team persists in trying the case in the court of public opinion probably because they figure they can do better there than in a courtroom. They appear to have decided to keep playing the race card while accusing everyone else of being racist in an effort to curry financial and public support from a core group of right wing racists and gun enthusiasts hoping that one or more of them will make it onto the jury and acquit or hang the jury, despite overwhelming evidence of guilt.
Seems to me that this strategy is the equivalent of taking the Devil to the Big Dance.
I think it’s really offensive.
Well at least the Treehouse folks are happy. I went over there and dropped a few facts, knowing full well it won’t amount to anything. That is, IF they even pass the moderator!
@Cielo62.
Keep in mind that if your comment is allowed for posting, there is at least one person there who uses at least 3 different handles and is the one most likely to gang-up on you with those 3 handles. She has sent comments to my blog using more than 3 handles, fake email addresses, but all the same IP address.
She uses one handle to oppose you, another handle to back-pat the first, and the next one will agree with the second and if not outright state, will infer that you’re stupid. That’s their playbook.
At least it keeps the off the streets! 😉
Oh — that is true. 🙂 Better to keep those multiple personalities behind a computer keyboard than on the street where someone would truly notice. LOL!!!
You have to see this:
http://www.google.com/imgres?start=270&num=10&hl=en&biw=1030&bih=544&tbm=isch&tbnid=C_W6FYCiBbI18M:&imgrefurl=http://blogs.eciad.ca/rcutler/category/public-engagements/&docid=8cMGRx2k5MoP6M&imgurl=http://blogs.eciad.ca/rcutler/files/2009/10/cattelan-elephant-201×300.jpg&w=201&h=300&ei=8Rp8UP_kCsi10QHpmYCACw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=458&vpy=4&dur=1&hovh=240&hovw=160&tx=94&ty=110&sig=111156903828463562528&page=16&tbnh=154&tbnw=107&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:72,s:200,i:220
@ Malisha – Great pic for this discussion. Definitely an example of what is going on.
From the site you posted:
“The figuration of ‘The elephant in the room’ points to what is not being said, and whether there are obvious truths that are being ignored or going unaddressed. While the idiomatic expression overtly applies to an obvious problem that no one wants to discuss, it is also about taking note of the atmosphere in the room and acting in reciprocity with it.”
Also from that site:
These elephants cannot be ignored. They need to be addressed. I can understand that it is uncomfortable and some people may not want to talk about it, but are there really some who do not see the “elephants?”
http://blogs.eciad.ca/rcutler/category/public-engagements/
Hi, Rachael.
The software automatically held-up your comment because of the two links.
I automatically approved it when I noticed what happened.
Sorry to say that I don’t always spot these events quickly.
Thanks Professor. I knew that is what happened because it happens whenever I post 2 links. Thanks for getting it so fast!
Malisha – I responded to you but my comment is awaiting moderation.
O’Mara’s just being silly and throwing filler into the media now, with this “CORRECTION: There is no elephant in the room” media blitz. He wants to make it seem like a possible argument that it’s all just coincidence that (a) the suspect was believed rather than the evidence; and that (b) the suspect was encouraged to identify his victim as “the suspect”; and (c) the police officially opined on what the VICTIM should have done that night rather than on what the SHOOTER should NOT have done that night; and (d) the victim was investigated for drugs and criminal record/activity but the shooter was not; and (e) etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.
If that is not an elephant in the room, what is it?
ANSWER: A HERD OF ELEPHANTS IN THE ROOM.
LLMPapa — can you do a video with a herd of elephants in a room? 😎
Maybe its liars in Florida.
Maybe it’s Florida.
A strange thing about the Zimmerman case, in my opinion, is how much air time is going to the Zimmerman family. Look at any other murder case that has hit the press in the last decade. See any fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, best friends, neighbors and wives of the accused getting on the top talk shows, just to talk about how their relative or friend is NOT at fault in the crime? What makes George such a privileged alleged murderer? Surely with our crime rate what it is in the big cities, we’d have the defendants’ relatives all over the TV screen every single night if this were an ordinary phenomenon. I mean, just check out Zachary Gaston; he’s charged with first-degree murder and his family isn’t on the “circuit” talking about what a great guy he is. On and on; this is something quite extraordinary. We know their purpose — to sway public opinion in their relative’s favor. But which other defendants’ families get an opportunity to do that?
Possibly I think people are waiting to see if this case will open up to include the Sanford PD. These clowns are just the opening show. Once GZ is found guilty and locked away for a few decades, many folks want to see the Main Act; the take-down of a corrupt small town southern racist police department. GZ is the pimple; SPD is the acne.
What is so ironic about all this is that the federal civil rights law, 42 USC 1981 and 1983 (et seq) were actually WRITTEN to deal with Southern post-emancipation state governments that failed to prosecute for crimes against the recently freed Blacks who had been, before the Civil War and the Emancipation Proclamation, totally without protection from the racist societies and governments they lived in. So along comes the civil rights act saying that the federal government can provide a forum in which a person can sue for damages if someone takes away their civil rights “under color of state law.” Thus, a police department that refused to prosecute a white citizen for killing an unarmed Black citizen would have been considered liable for having deprived the victim of his federally protected rights even though the state government responsible for the police department had “blessed” its conduct.
The law was put in place to bring Southern State Governments into compliance with the federal laws they were violating. Section 1981 made certain actions a crime (to be prosecuted by the feds) and Section 1983 made certain actions a tort, to be compensated for with money damages. There was even a provision for the lawyers to be paid by the wrongdoers if they lost, even if they didn’t lose on every single count, but just if they lost at ALL. This law once had some teeth in it. It doesn’t look very hale and hearty today, I’ll tell you that.
@Malisha: Puhleese! I have been asking this question since this case broke! We have had the most nortorious cases of crimes in the last two decades in the United States and I don’t recall, perpetrators family on the talk show circuit begging for money. Most family members keep things private and do not talk to the press because they are embarressed and ashamed of what their loved one has done. The the families of Jeffrey Dahmer, John Wayne Gacy, Charles Manson and his family, Amy Bishop, Scott Peterson, Mark Hacking, Jared Loughner and Charles Holmes and countless other spree killers who have inflicted pain and misery upon the families of their victims, have never come out and denigrated the victim or the victims family. Does the Z family show any shame or sorrow for the Martin Family? No. They appear to blame THEM for what has happened to their little Georgie! Do they denounce the racists supporters? NO! They have shown themselves to be heathens and plain trash!
They dealt with their pain privately all the while supporting their loved one. The Z family think that they are royalty! They cannot keep their mouths shut, and they are on television giving interviews! Why? GZ is not special and when he gets to prison, the other dudes in there will resent him for what they perceived special treatment.
I agree. I do think his family should support him. That is what families do, even when they know their family member has done wrong. But to beg for money, praise those who show blatant racism rather than denounce it in the name of justice to their own family member, to go on talk shows like they are some kind of celebrities is just disgusting.
It’s because the Zidiots encourage them by blowing the dog whistles sounding off that Trayvon was just another shuffling, stupid, druggy, “colored boy” statistic with murder or prison in his future.
They don’t know the difference between the Black Panther Party and the New Black Panther Party, but don’t see that as a racist dog whistle that puts all Blacks into the same box.
They’ve not listened to Serino and Singleton’s interview of GZ, so don’t know that GZ admitted to having Trayvon in a wrist lock, aimed, and made sure his left arm was not in his path before pulling the trigger. They can’t see the dog whistle that says regardless of their ignorance of that interview, that they are still smarter than the Black prosecutor and everyone else who has.
They have no understanding for why the ME scrapes beneath the fingernails, so take a position that no DNA or blood foreign to Trayvon Martin was found is a lie by the ME.
For the Zidiots, a grown man armed with a gun has right to stalk and follow an unarmed 17 yr old 11th grader, because that 17 yr old had no respect for his elders. Another dog whistle that they blow repeatedly, but yet say they are not racists.
Want to see/hear the ultimate superiority Nazi mentality? They actually expect for those supporting justice for Trayvon should tuck tail and talk to them to get the “facts.”
The Zimmerman family ARE royalty; they’re the Kings and Queens of Dumbass.
“The Zimmerman family ARE royalty; they’re the Kings and Queens of Dumbass.”
After all the evidence is coming out against Dumbass, you would think the arrogant Zimmerman family would remain in hiding instead of maintaining the high public profile they do.
Honestly, I can’t imagine having a relative who profiled, followed, shot and killed an innocent teen like GZ did and defending him. There simply is no excuse for what happened to Trayvon Martin, yet this ugly “royal” Zimmerman family continues to blame the victim for his own death.
@jm – again, I can totally understand a family supporting their family member, even if they did wrong. I can also understand them thinking their family member is innocent.
What I can’t understand is the publicity. How do they think that is going to help GZ?
GZ himself said “I hate to think that because of this incident, because of my actions, it has polarized and divided America. And I am truly sorry.”
These words were said back in July. VERY nice words that would mean a lot if they represented what he and his family truly felt, but instead they are just representative of another of his lies.
If he or his family really believed those words, they would not be out in high profile public media continuing to polarize and divide America.
If they really believed those words and wanted to help their beloved family member, the would, IMO anyway, stay out of the public eye as much as possible. This does not mean that they do not love or support their family member or believe in his innocence.
There is just something wrong here, something very wrong. I know I am not putting it into words very well, but there is just something very wrong here for so many reasons, including internet, TV, social media and it just makes me wonder about justice in the future, how this will all work when it comes to our justice system.
rachael says: “Again, I can totally understand a family supporting their family member, even if they did wrong. ”
I would privately support a remorseful family member if they shot and killed someone by “mistake” after thinking the person was up to no good and as NW captain they followed the “suspicious” person leading to the death of the “suspicious” person.
Once evidence comes out that the whole story behind the killing is fabricated, my support and sympathy is gone, although I may donate to commissary money while they are in prison/jail.
If it turns out that a family member, like GZ, caused the problem and showed no sorrow for taking an innocent life, no remorse or guilt, I would not be on TV saying the victim caused his own death.
I believe by supporting someone who has done wrong enables them to continue wrong-doing and I suspect that is what has happened all of GZ’s life. The Zimmerman clan have made excuses, blamed others, in all previous incidents where GZ got in trouble with the law. Now that GZ has killed someone it is still someone else’s fault.
I realize I shouldn’t judge others by myself and I guess Zimmermans are doing whatever gets them through the night.
How does it help to support a killer of an innocent teen to continue the obvious lies in a very public manner? Can’t figure if it is greed or pride driven or a combination.
You mentioned this statement by GZ:
He said this to the pastor who favors burning Korans.
He said it during a recorded jailhouse conversation that he knew was being recorded.
Rather self-serving.
Support your family member (who killed somebody) by having mercy for that family member, fine. By making sure he has a good defense when he’s in the legal system, absolutely. But by slandering his victim? NO WAY. By puffing up your own presumed importance and faked up counterfeit “holier than thou” superiority by publicly announcing that you PRAY FOR THEM? STFU!! 😡
What if that family member is like GZ, who self-righteously justifies the killing, lies, has no regrets and states it is part of God’s plan and considers themselves as a “hero” for killing an innocent person? Would you have mercy on someone who doesn’t recognize he did anything wrong or in need of mercy but just needs you to send money and support for his actions?
Reading on the pro GZ sites is amazing. What they don’t get is:
This isn’t a case where GZ was out walking, minding his own business, when suddenly out of nowhere an assailant appears to endanger him.
This is a case where GZ went out looking for what he believes are criminals. He has been informed that not everyone he find suspicious is actually a criminal, and may even be frightened by his actions, such that they might feel justified to take defensive measures themselves, should he be caught following them.
GZ, then reports that he has found a suspicious person and he wants the police to come check him out. But, GZ then pretends to follow the dispatchers advice, by stating that he is no longer following, but is merely “going in the same direction” as the suspect. How on earth the suspect is supposed to know that he’s changed his mind about his mission is beyond comprehension.
Notwithstanding that GZ is now in a place where he should not be and has no reason for being there, in the rain as well.
Now, later we find that he has shot the suspect, and we learn that he suspected the wrong person as well. The “suspect” is dead, because GZ claims he had to shoot him to save his own life!
Well hells bells Mr. Zimmerman, that’s why the dispatcher and the NW instructor all told you not to follow people who you suspected in the first place! If “this one got away”, all that would mean is that a kid with candy and iced tea, would be home watching the game, instead of laying on the ground dead in the rain.
You and your actions, Mr Zimmerman, are the reason this child is dead! There is nothing that this kid did, that required you to kill him, unless unarmed 17 year old kids are too dangerous to identify yourself to!
There is no evidence that you took a beating, as up claimed you did, but even if you did, it would have been fisticuffs. Fisticuffs are not deadly, and you certainly would deserve a sound thrashing, for frightening someone out of their wits for no good reason at all.
Which is why it is not at all persuasive that you claim Trayvon went for your gun. A gun you are required to carry concealed, so he could not know that you even had one. A gun, Trayvon could not know was loaded or not… And how many hours of training did it take for you to learn how to use it properly? Do you think Trayvon had that kind of training as well?
You’re going to have to explain how it was, you were talking and asking him questions, at the exact same time you claimed to be screaming for help. In any event Mr. Zimmerman, you’re going to have a very long time to think about these things you did that night, and perhaps someday you will realize why the jurors did not believe you and just how horrible a person you were then.
@Lonnie Starr. (((((Applause)))))
Try this one by Tchoupi:
Trayvon Martin By tchoupi · 3 months ago 107,319 views
http://preview.tinyurl.com/92lcje8
Here’s the rainfall data from that night, note that it was raining even heavier when TM left the mailboxes than it was when he got there.
6:42 0.03
6:47 0.04
6:52 0.04
6:57 0.04
7:02 0.04
7:07 0.05
7:13 0.07
7:18 0.08
7:23 0.09
7:28 0.09
7:33 0.09
==========
6:32 0.00
6:37 0.02
6:42 0.03
6:47 0.04
6:52 0.04
6:57 0.04
7:02 0.04
7:07 0.05
7:13 0.07
7:18 0.08
7:23 0.09
7:28 0.09
7:33 0.09
Lonnie says: “This isn’t a case where GZ was out walking, minding his own business, when suddenly out of nowhere an assailant appears to endanger him.”
Yes they conveniently lose sight of the fact that had GZ not profiled, followed and confronted Trayvon, no one would be discussing Trayvon’s past or if he was a thug. Trayvon was obviously not doing anything suspicious on the night he was shot and killed by GZ. He had no drugs, weapons, contraband, exorbitant amounts of money.
Aside from that, what burglar robs houses on a Sunday evening in the rain with no car or means to get away, when most people are at home. This is more of GZ’s distorted illogical thinking and possible paranoia that he would even think some kid would even think about burglarizing homes. No wonder he couldn’t get a job in law enforcement. His judgement is obviously flawed.
@jm and Lonnie: Kudos to the both of you! GZ would never have made it as a police offiver, and he would have never made it as a Marine either! His judgement is completely flawed plus, he suffers from memory lapses according to him. He cannot remember the 3 streets in his neighborhood, how the hell would he take orders froma superior? I was over to the Youtube website viewing some of the older tapeson Politics Nation, and one with RZ Sr. stands out. Robert Z. Sr. has a lot of nerve! He calls out the President and accuses the President, the NAACP and other civil rights groups of hate. Sure. These groups came into existance to expose, and fight racism, fight for the oppressed, the disenfranchised and those affected by racism, bigotry and anti-semetism.
The President expresses his compassion to the parents of a lost child and this is his selfish response. instead of stating something along the lines of,” We want to express our condolences to the parents as we steadfastly support our son.” He throws out dog whistles to his sons racists supporters.
This family wants to blame everyone else for the fact that their comfortable living had to abruptly change! Who’s fault is that? LLMPapa has a haunting video about GZ It is a video of GZ as a child holding hands in a circle with his older brother RZ and in the backround, a young woman is singing, “Ring Around The Rosie.” Papa’s words ring across the screen. G revealed that he was abused by his mom daily and his father never defended him. He was a passive weak man.Why am I not surprised at this?
Could you post the video or tell me the name of it,
TIA
Brown
Brown may not have seen your comment. It is a “haunting” video. I have a problem with the way the song is sung (just getting old I guess), but here it is.
thank you Xena..
Brown
Just wanted to thank you again for the video, and yes the way the song is sung is haunting. It reminds of the Freddy Kruger nursery rhyme
(Shiver) 🙂
The Anthonys
I like that phrase, “social antagonists.”
The Zimmerman and company train are on a country-wide publicity tour because they are social antagonists.
Grahase, wow, I had not remembered either the Osterman reference to the “the gun” or the Hannity Interview repeat of that bizarre idea. I will bet that part of Osterman’s “mentoring” of George starting on 2/26/2012 was to say certain things certain ways:
“I was not following him; I was going along there in the same area…”
[Serino chuckles and says, “that’s FOLLOWING”]
“It was not my gun and it was not his gun; it was THE gun…”
[so you both just had a fair and equal chance of killing the other and you just happened to be the one who killed? Although…if you’re to be believed, you had no intention to kill anyone but he did?]
“And every time he smashed my head it felt like my head was exploding” [that was a repeated poetic phrase too]
“And I’m not a racist…” [therefore I couldn’t be guilty of anything]
Exactly!!
I have a new post up:
Death Penalty or Life Without Parole: Long And Slender Fingers at Easter
Another report on the Chief Lee take on the case:
“In an interview two weeks after the incident, Lee said witness statements and physical evidence backed up Zimmerman’s version of events. He suggested that based on the timing of the call, he believed that Trayvon went out of his way to approach the person tailing him and mouth off. “If Trayvon has made it that far, and Zimmerman is getting out of his truck, why doesn’t Trayvon keep walking?” Lee said. “He’s 70 yards from his house. I think based on the timing of the call and Zimmerman losing sight of him that he had made it to that ‘T’ (at the end of the path) and was starting to walk toward his house. “My wish is that he would have kept walking.” “We can’t discount (Zimmerman’s) story, based on — not evidence we put anywhere, not testimony we put in anybody’s mouth — but testimony of witnesses who were there, that called, and the physical evidence that’s there. You can’t refute it,” Lee said in the early interview. “The conclusions that are drawn from the basic information is that George Zimmerman shoots a 17-year-old kid with a bag of Skittles and an Arizona iced tea can. And you know, those are facts: George Zimmerman did shoot Trayvon Martin, and Trayvon Martin did have a bag of Skittles and an Arizona iced tea. “The fact that he had a bag of Skittles and an Arizona iced tea does not have anything to do with the facts of why George Zimmerman thought he needed to use deadly force.”
The story highlighted the following comment:
“Mr. Zimmerman’s claim is that the confrontation was initiated by Trayvon,” Police Chief Bill Lee said in an interview. “I am not going into specifics of what led to the violent physical encounter witnessed by residents. All the physical evidence and testimony we have independent of what Mr. Zimmerman provides corroborates this claim to self-defense.”
http://radionewz.net/2012/06/the-investigation-and-negligent-spin-part-iii/
Yeah, that was before Zimmerman got charged, the evidence got revealed, and Lee got fired. So much for not going into details.
The point is, who made him judge and jury? His job is to collect evidence, not to make judgements before the evidence collection is finished. Even at that point in time, he had no reason in hand, as to why the body was 40 feet away from where the attack was claimed to have taken place. Which should tell any investigator that there is more evidence and testimony that needs to be collected.
At the point in time where he made that decision, all he had was the shooters word for the matter. If he can do no better than that, he’s a fraud, he needs to return every penny he’s earned as a policeman.
Here’s a more complete quote:
“[Chief Bill Lee] suggested that based on the timing of the call, he believed that Trayvon went out of his way to approach the person tailing him and mouth off. “If Trayvon has made it that far, and Zimmerman is getting out of his truck, why doesn’t Trayvon keep walking?” Lee said. “He’s 70 yards from his house. I think based on the timing of the call and Zimmerman losing sight of him that he had made it to that ‘T’ (at the end of the path) and was starting to walk toward his house. “My wish is that he would have kept walking.” “We can’t discount (Zimmerman’s) story, based on — not evidence we put anywhere, not testimony we put in anybody’s mouth — but testimony of witnesses who were there, that called, and the physical evidence that’s there. You can’t refute it,” Lee said in the early interview. “The conclusions that are drawn from the basic information is that George Zimmerman shoots a 17-year-old kid with a bag of Skittles and an Arizona iced tea can. And you know, those are facts: George Zimmerman did shoot Trayvon Martin, and Trayvon Martin did have a bag of Skittles and an Arizona iced tea. “The fact that he had a bag of Skittles and an Arizona iced tea does not have anything to do with the facts of why George Zimmerman thought he needed to use deadly force.”
From the Radio NewsBlog
http://radionewz.net/2012/06/the-investigation-and-negligent-spin-part-iii/
So not only did Lee take George’s word for it that Trayvon went out of his way to approach the person TAILING HIM and mouth off, he also presumed it true that George “thought he needed to use deadly force.” Nobody could have told Lee what George “thought” but George. So on the uncorroborated word of the shooter himself, the Chief of Police concluded that George indeed “thought he needed to use deadly force” and that Trayvon had gone out of his way to “approach the person TAILING HIM” and mouth off. Nice, huh?
That is why the Governor stepped in and Lee was fired. Lee is an idiot. Even using logic, without looking at facts, Zimmerman was the one targeting and stalking the kid with a gun. The kid had candy and ice tea and a heart stickered cell phone.
Who is the real threat in this picture?
So it is okay for a complete crazy stranger (Zimmerman), who has no legal authority or probable cause or any reasonable rights, to just stalk and chase and target a kid with a gun?
Like jesus murphy there are some crazies out there. It is like that other guy that pulled his gun on some other teenagers in Florida, because he suspected they were smoking weed, then the mother came, picked up the kids, and called the cops on the guy who pulled the gun. The man with the gun was later arrested, charged & convicted. It is very obvious Lee does not know how to do his job and if he considers what he did a proper job, he is screwed up in the head.
ShannoninMiami, according to the Tampa Bay Times:
“In an interview two weeks after the incident, Lee said witness statements and physical evidence backed up Zimmerman’s version of events. He suggested that based on the timing of the call, he believed that Trayvon went out of his way to approach the person tailing him and mouth off.
“‘If Trayvon has made it that far, and Zimmerman is getting out of his truck, why doesn’t Trayvon keep walking?’ Lee said. ‘He’s 70 yards from his house. I think based on the timing of the call and Zimmerman losing sight of him that he had made it to that T (at the end of the path) and was starting to walk toward his house.’
“‘My wish is that he would have kept walking.'”
OK, so rather than wish the shooter hadn’t SHOT HIM, the Chief of Police wished that the VICTIM had acted differently — but WAIT — he doesn’t wish the victim had acted differently from how he actually ACTED, he wished the victim had acted differently from how the SHOOTER said he acted.
So, I agree, your analysis of “WTF” is spot-on.
What Lee and the Zidiots convey in that argument is that Trayvon had no rights. Also absent from that argument is the fact that GZ had followed Trayvon in his truck. Trayvon reached an area where no vehicle could come. How was he to know that GZ would get out of his truck and follow him on foot?
What Lee inferred is that Trayvon was suppose to know that GZ was conducting a “coon” hunt and he was suppose to continue running although the hound was destined to point out his location anyway.
What makes it even more outrageous is the fact that we have only GEORGE’s word for it that Trayvon was close to his home when he “attacked” George. In other words, all the descriptions of where Trayvon was, where he went, when he went there, where he appeared, where he disappeared — ALL were George’s descriptions. There is no physical evidence that Trayvon went almost home and then dawdled. In fact, it is far more likely that he was nowhere near home at the time George confronted him, and that the chase, the confrontation, the pleading and begging covered territory and that Trayvon almost made it home before getting killed because George was, as HE SAID, “running out of time.” Lee used the killer’s timeline, the killer’s description, and the killer’s narrative, and did not even consult the physical evidence that would have very clearly contradicted all that bullcrap.
@Malisha.
Not even that. GZ never raised that. The Zidiots did. Their theory is that since GZ took off running after Trayvon at 7:11, but the first 911 call did not come until after 7:13, that Trayvon had enough time to get home. What they will not talk about is that since GZ took off running after Trayvon at 7:11, that GZ had enough time to return to and get inside his truck before 7:13.
Right. Since GZ said he didn’t want to give out his address because he didn’t know where the kid was, and he stated that the kid went down the T, then GZ had to have also gone down the T. GZ also said that when the dispatcher said “We don’t need you to do that,” that he was on RTC. Had he gotten that far safely, what would make him think that Trayvon was hiding and listening?
Right again, but had Trayvon decided to sit down on the wet grass to get his breath, he had the right to do that. How was he to know that the creepy guy following him in a vehicle had left it and was following him on foot?
In one of his blog posts, the Professor asked us whether we thought GZ came from the north or south and cut Trayvon off. The more I listen to GZ’s statements of where he was at certain times, the more I’m convinced that GZ took a short-cut to RTC and cut-off Trayvon. LLMPapa recently did a vid of a witness’ drawing that further raises this point. Think about this …
Trayvon would have been walking in the direction of Green’s house. For all intent and purposes, he had no idea that the creepy guy was out of his truck — he would not have been looking behind him. When Trayvon told DeeDee that he saw the creepy guy again and he was getting closer, GZ had to have been coming from the direction of RVC.
The altercation only had one direction to take — back in the direction where GZ’s truck was parked. That further drives in the intent for me that GZ planned on restraining Trayvon and taking him back to his truck.
@ Malisha, OMG! i had never heard that BS (except for the slightly different version the zimmerlovers have said)
That is exactly what someone-i think Xena-said about ‘stripping Trayvon of his rights’ to walk where ever the hell he wanted to! And to think an officer in charge of this case would sit up there and make such a repulsive, disrespectful, bias, racist, heartless, etc PUBLIC STATEMENT!!! It’s unbearable to me as a mother to listen to that bullshit!! I can’t imagine how i would contain myself if that had been about my kid!
I already know, and i’ve said it before, If someone had shot my child like that i would not be anywhere near the woman Sabrina is! I have only 1 son, and he’s ALL i live for. I would have hunted GZ down and killed him myself! No if ands or butts about it.
Sabrina and Tracy have other kids to take care of, and i so respect them for how they have contained themselves in order to maintain some sort of family and shelter for those other kids.
But i have pain for them that i’ve never imagined i’d have for someone i’ve never known.
@Shannon: OMG! I am getting angry again! I save lives as a Nurse but I know i would lose all perspective if that had been my son! Just like you, I would have found a way to kill GZ! I have 2 daughters and my youngest is a boy. He is 17. The same age as TM.
I try so hard to remember that vengence is not mind but God’s. Xena had to remind me that no matter what, I had to remember that and not resort to the same type of behavior as GZ! Then I think about conversations that I have had with other black people who say to me, “See! That is what is wrong with black people! We are to damn nice and Christian! We need to express our feelings and stop turning that damn other cheek!” Sometimes I agree, and sometimes I don’t! You don’t know how you would respond when a demented thug, murders your child, smears his good name and character all over the world, and blatantly LIES about your child, when you know better! That is what enrages me!
Tracy and Sybrina are God fearing people with dignity and class. Believe me, they know that the world is watching, not to mention the racists and the trashy Z family. They know that if they even went ghetto, and displayed ghetto behavior, and showed any lack of character or integrity? They will be vilified, labled and categorized as “GHETTO SAVAGES” and the racists will say,” See? I told you that they are savages and don’t know how to act!” All the while ignoring the savage, boorish behavior of GZ and their racist, ignorant, boorish behaivor!
Sorry. I just saw the following;
Did I really? Bless your heart for remembering. You mean, I didn’t give you the sermon about turning the other cheek, but we only have four, so after the fourth time it’s game-on? 🙂
That should not even be an issue. It is a free country with some rules. Trayvon has a right to go wherever he wants freely without being trapped. George has no right stalk and follow and chase a kid with a gun and a car and a flashlight and a larger physique and an angry hateful attitude. The simple fact of the matter is, George’s actions took away Trayvon’s freedom to walk home un-accosted, therefore, Trayvon was forced to run all over the place, instead of safely walking home. George is a stranger and has no right to intrude into other’s personal space and infringe on their sense of security and safety. It is also obvious why Trayvon never made it home – he was running all over the complex to try and lose Zimmerman. When he thought he lost him, Zimmerman caught up and began his attack…
The constitution writes about freedoms and rights to not be forced, without probable cause and under authority, to do anything they do not want to do. There are rights to privacy and personal space. There are rights to feel secure in your state. There is nothing written in the constitution for another citizen to take that away by stalking and chasing another with a gun. There’s nothing written in the constitution as a right to stalk and harass another person.
You said it! I appreciate the reminders of our rights in our country. It IS our country.
I think O’Mara is compromised, but I don’t think he can withdraw. Several reasons: (1) Until Osterman’s book came out, O’Mara did NOTHING to try to prevent George from messing up the already-faltering image he had projected on the media, and even when Osterman’s book did come out, his public announcement was both equivocal and not terribly believable, amounting to, “We’ll use this if it helps us and we’ll pretend to reject it if it doesn’t”; (2) O’Mara appealed for money from the gun-toting racists by saying, “If you would have done what George did…” — uh, I mean, make that, ‘duh’ — recover from THAT, sucker! How stupid does one lawyer have to be to go on-line and say, “If you would also have shot a defenseless unarmed teen-ager dead and then bawled over your nose-bump like a lily-livered coward, then send money”? I mean — oh nevermind. And then we have the last but not least, (3) Remember after the bond was revoked you got on TV and said your client lied because he was “mistrustful, frightened and confused”? Well Hayll, Marky, you was the damn fool’s lawyer-man at the time he was so mistrustful, frightened and confused, wasn’t you? So how’s come you dint juss advise him like counsel shoulda, as in: “George, trust me, trust the system, tell the truth,” so’s he wouldenna lied to the judge, tell me THAT, OK?
No, I think the time for O’Mara to withdraw has passed. He could have withdrawn when he “found out” [presuming he did not already know, cough cough cough sputter] that George and Shellie lied. He could have withdrawn before Osterman’s book came out, saying that he could not go along with certain plans his client was supporting. But having announced that he was doing the case pro bono, and still looking for money on-line, I don’t think he can try to withdraw now.
It may not be a factor, though. I think — unlike those who keep identifying the Zimmerman media blitz as a mistake because it gets him deeper and deeper and can be used against him at trial — that this is all a carefully orchestrated public theater production to make it possible for Corey and O’Mara to go into a proverbial smoke-filled room and come out with a plea bargain that they believe will not result in a riot. That’s what I have thought for quite a long time.
Back when all we could ever hear or read about was Monica Lewinsky’s adventures in the Oval Office, I was saying, “Both sides are part of this media circus and we are all being distracted by it so that something can be pulled over our eyes a lot worse than wool,” and I believed that because the cold war had ended without either a bang OR a whimper and nothing terribly interesting had taken its place. Today I think that my attitude about what we were seeing back then was actually inspired even though I still lack the data to understand WHAT we were being distracted from and what the Democrats had to gain from it. But the analogous situation with George’s relatives all lining up (except, by the way, for sister Gracie last-name-unknown) to give their testimony (hey where IS Gracie’s real mother; was there a nasty Virginia custody battle behind all this?) about how perfect they all are so nobody should railroad poor Georgie, is this: Keep paying attention to them while something is worked out that gets presented as a fait accompli and our jaws all drop in unison.
I agree with your analysis, Rachael & Malisha. I would add that giving up the case may damage O’Mara professionally. If O’Mara were to drop the case, the impression may irreversibly be created that he is a wimp, not up to the task (and I can already visualize the nuts at the conservativetreehouse dancing and rejoicing on their tree branches for O’Mara’s departure). No attorney ever wants that to happen. The incentive for O’Mara to quit is thus not very strong. I also understand that O’Mara has invested hundreds of hours of work in the case and that those who put up bond for Zimmerman conditioned it on Zimmerman retaining O’Mara as counsel. If that is true, it would seem that these two may never be able to divorce each other until the end of the trial. That’s not good news because I do not think O’Mara is doing an excellent job – i.e. concentrating on what matters to counter State’s evidence –which btw is very strong – and staying out of the media (like e.g. attorney Benjamin Bronfman, who would very coldly, quietly do damage to the prosecution’s case or plead out the case before appearing before the media). Somehow I want Zimmerman to get a fair trial – knowing that he will ultimately lose. Somehow, I wouldn’t give a jack if Danny DeVito were to take over his legal defense. ).
You may be right. I have thought that. If you listened to Elders and RZ Jrs. interview, RZ Jr. is expecting rioting and other forms of backlash. I guess the Zimmermans didn’t like the Sandusky trial, the shooter in the theater, and now the elections interrupting the so-called – most hated man in Americas spotlight. The whole thing is a diversion tactic, I am sure. I am still trying to find the story behind the story.
@ SearchingMind:
” But they who are concerned that Zimmerman may not be getting a “fair trial” should really be worried and start looking for another
lawyer for Zimmerman.”
**I totally agree. I feel like it is so totally wrong for him to chastise everyone for trying this case in the media when that is exactly what he is doing, which does nothing to help GZ.
“At the core of the right of fair trial lies the right of ‘representation by effective counsel’. I truly believe that O’Mara is a very descent, righteous man. But as Professor said: “he is not ready for prime time”. Does anyone think that O’Mara is providing Zimmerman effective counsel?”
**As I’ve stated before, I feel like O’Mara is between a rock and a hard place. Like you, I too truly believe that he is a very decent righteous man and probably a very good defense attorney. However, he has a client who not only himself but his family cannot and will not STFU. GZ has been this way from the start, first by not letting his original lawyers know where he was going, trying to call the prosecutor, going on nationwide TV, calling Barbara Walters, etc., and now that he seems to have finally gotten it (?) has his family doing his bidding for him to the point where O’Mara “says” he does not approve and is not happy about it.
Perhaps I am wrong, but I believe that any other defense attorney would at this point say that they could not represent their client and would withdraw.
I know that a client can fire an attorney at any time, but it is not so easy for an attorney to withdraw their representation.
http://research.lawyers.com/When-an-Attorney-Must-or-May-Withdraw-Mid-Case.html
I believe that O’Mara has several reasons here that would qualify:
1. Differing case strategies.
2. A client’s failure to cooperate, communicate, or fulfill obligations.
3. Personality conflicts. *I don’t know if this is an issue, but considering O’Mara cannot seem to get #2 (above), it could be.
4. A client’s failure to pay attorneys fees. *I’m not clear on this, as I thought that he was representing GZ pro bono – but I am not clear on how this works. If it ONLY covers O’Mara’s fees, there are still a lot of other costs involved, so one would still need to pay for that and *supposedly* money is drying up.
5. A client’s unethical, fraudulent, or criminal activity: Your lawyer is bound by certain professional and ethical obligations. As part of those obligations, your lawyer cannot help you commit unethical, fraudulent or criminal activities. If your attorney tells you that you’re trying to do something illegal and you don’t take his advice, the attorney *can* stop representing you. *I don’t know how this plays out in the perjury portion, but GZ was not charged and O’Mara I guess didn’t know about it and *can* doesn’t mean has to. But I also wonder how ethical it is for either GZ OR his attorney to solicit funds online. I am not saying it is illegal, I don’t even know if it is professionally unethical, but it is kind of creepy to me that an attorney would put himself in that position. Anyway, let me say I do not think there is anything unethical, fraudulent or criminal going on at this time, however, IF GZ was talking about fleeing – or I don’t know, I’m just going off on a tangent here.
But my point is, O’Mara has himself between a rock and a hard spot. He may not feel like he can represent GZ as well as he would like to and in any other situation would remove himself. However, because this is SO high profile, if he does that, what would it do to the image the public already has of GZ? Would it be almost as unethical for O’Mara to leave GZ flapping in the wind as it would be to try to defend him?
I think at this point, he *may* feel like his only option is to defend GZ as best he can without putting himself in a position where he would lose his license and hope for the best because removing himself would not be in the best interest of GZ’s public image. If he (O’Mara) was only thinking of himself, GZ’s public image would not matter, but at the same time, he is ethical enough to know what it would do to GZ’s ability to have justice served (a fair trial) if he removed himself from the case.
Because of those reasons stated above, and because O’Mara is unable to come up with a defence to get acquittal, the least he can do is go for appeal. However, West is on the case and probably working hard and having trouble steering the ship in such turbulent waters. OMara is just playing the buffoon. His job is to muddy those turbulent waters by my estimation.
Grahase, I had actually completely forgotten that it wasn’t “my gun” and it wasn’t “his gun” but it was “the gun.” That’s interesting. It’s stupid and mockable, of course, but it is something else quite bizarre and intriguing.
George must actually believe that he can present an alternate reality as he describes things that he finds “unworkable” in their actual, material, “true” form. He doesn’t want to say, for instance, “I got out of my truck to follow the suspect.” So he says, “I got out of my truck to find an address.” He believes that he has then created an alternate reality that should be accepted. After all, it COULD have happened that he wanted to find an address just at the time when he said, “These assholes, they always get away.” There is no overarching law of the Universe that would prevent that from having happened. In fact, at that very moment, an ostrich could have appeared and the appearance of the ostrich could have been so interesting that George got out of his truck to see the ostrich up close — there is no firm reason that could not have happened either.
So he goes on and on giving descriptions of “alternate realities” and of things that he says occurred, and that after all could have occurred because who’s to say they could NOT have occurred. He goes so far with this peculiar brand of “object relations” that he tells Hannity: “At that moment, it wasn’t MY gun and it wasn’t HIS gun; it was THE gun.”
Fine, another alternate reality described by George. Ownership of the gun has changed from “my” to “whatever.” Granted, George bought the gun, registered the gun, passed whatever tests he had to pass to get a CCW permit for the gun, and put the gun into a holster inside his own pants on his very own hip. But since an alternate reality is more useful at the moment he chose to shoot Trayvon Martin, ownership of the gun morphs instantly into another form.
Of course, in this one instance, there IS a circumstance that prevents it. Law. A law assigns title of the gun to George. Trayvon Martin, see, would not have even known the gun had a bullet in it even if he had been able to see the “the gun” when George’s jacket allegedly came up, exposing his chest. The gun was George’s gun when he “always carried” it; it was George’s gun when he “aimed it” and when he made sure not to shoot his other hand with it; and it was George’s gun when George shot Trayvon with it.
But George doesn’t think, “Hey I better not say this because it really sounds stupid,” when he makes up something that really sounds stupid. Why not? I think it’s because he’s trained in the skill of pretend. Singleton actually accidentally said “pretend” — and then corrected herself politely — when she was challenging some of George’s pretend world. In George’s family, when something is no good and looks bad to outsiders, you pretend it is NOT what it IS. When something gets you into trouble, you pretend it’s something quite different. “I wasn’t targeting and harassing my co-worker because he’s from the Middle East; I was jokin’ around with my buddy, that’s all.” George doesn’t know how to live with the realities around him; he is used to living with the pretend stuff he has always resorted to in order to shore up his fragile self-image.
Good luck with all that while incarcerated, alleged murderer.
One more alternate reality scenario presumably relayed by George was the description of Trayvon’s encounter with him as a “mugging” as reported by several of George’s co-workers. It needs to be clarified at some point whether those were George’s words or his co-workers’ “interpretation” or “retelling” of his words.
Well of course GZ wasn’t going to tell anyone that he stalked a kid, and when the kid ran from him into an area where vehicles cannot go, that he got out of his truck and followed the kid on foot. Chances are that in the wee hours of the morning as he sat with Osterman, Osterman told him that he had to make excuses for getting out and staying out of his truck.
Angela_nw, I see you are new here. You are more than welcome. The point you raised is a very important one. It will be intriguing to know how Zimmerman described the “mugging” to his co-workers, how, where and when it occurred, etc. After Osterman, we may get yet another version of ‘what happened’.
“Warden, I had completely forgotten that it was my cell and it wasn’t his cell, it was just “The Cell”.
Warden: “Then I understand completely Zim, you are not doing time, you are not serving a life sentence… You just happen to be spending time here!”
lol
Malisha — what I find interesting about the my gun, his gun, comment on Hannity is that I had heard it or read it somewhere before. Sure enough. After going over some of the discovery documents again — there it was. Believe it or not — it is in Ostermans written statement. I guess when the two of them were concocting GZs story to make it more believable after the first 5 stories, that statement seemed dramatic enough to them to add it into the script.
The “Not my gun. Not his gun, but THE gun” is a psychological ploy that gives the gun a personality and mind of its own to decide who lives and who dies. It relinquishes responsibility and accountability.
“The Orlando Sentinel reports today that Mark O’Mara has filed motions in the Zimmerman case seeking records from the FBI, the U.S. Department of Justice, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement and local law-enforcement agencies that would reveal whether investigators found that Zimmerman was motivated by race or acted to deprive Trayvon of his civil rights.” “If [race] was there, it should be brought out into the light,” O’Mara said. “Similarly if it’s not there, I think that should be told as well.”
Some legal analyst, Bill Sheaffer among others, have commented that this is “a smart move” from O’Mara. Now, why these famous legal analysts would say that is just beyond me. For a “legal move” to be “smart”, it has to meet the following criteria (a) it is specific, (b) it pursues a well-defined goal(s), (c) it is effective in attaining the goal pursued and (d) the goal pursued must, if attained, be consequential. (don’t look up the criteria in text books because you won’t find them).
O’Mara’s “smart move” does not meet these criteria. The wording and formulation of the motion suggests that O’Mara neither knows whether or not the records sought even exist at all nor what relevant goal(s) the sought records are supposed to pursue with regard to the criminal charge facing his client. Furthermore, the only parties to the case are the State of Florida and George Michael Zimmerman. Contrary to the pretentions of O’Mara, the United States Government, etc. cannot be compelled to hand over (unspecified) records in criminal proceedings such as the one before us just to aid O’Mara in his quest to shape public opinion in favor of his client. Finally, even if the records motioned for were to be presented, they would be inconsequential in the adjudication and outcome of the case: Zimmerman was/is not charged with a racially motivated act of murder.
At issue is whether or not Zimmerman’s self-defense stor(y)(ies) is/are viable. That is the ONE SINGLE question O’Mara MUST answer to save Zimmerman from the dungeons. O’Mara is not doing that. O’Mara does not seem to know how to overcome the intrinsic inconsistencies of Zimmerman’s diverse stories and the inconsistencies of the said stories with one another. “The jury will believe what the jury will believe” – O’Mara says. That will qualify as negligent and irresponsible in my book. He (O’Mara) either does not understand “the signatures of forensic evidence” (Professor coined this beautiful phrase) or is ignoring them – to the detriment of his client. Whatever the case may be, O’Mara is not concentrating on how to overcome an avalanche of overwhelming physical- and forensic evidence heading towards Zimmerman, etc. Instead, he is writing blogs, chastising attorney Crump and chasing after every single mouse that attorney Crump & Co. let out. This must be good news for the prosecution (and they who want justice for Trayvon). But they who are concerned that Zimmerman may not be getting a “fair trial” should really be worried and start looking for another lawyer for Zimmerman. At the core of the right of fair trial lies the right of ‘representation by effective counsel’. I truly believe that O’Mara is a very descent, righteous man. But as Professor said: “he is not ready for prime time”. Does anyone think that O’Mara is providing Zimmerman effective counsel?
Don West is co-counsel for GZ.
Which goes to say that O’Mara believes that Zimmerman will be denied immunity and the case will proceed to a trial by jury.
What can MOM do? The critical moment was witnessed by no one, so there’s only GZ’s credibility to rely upon, for any defense narrative, that might controvert the guilty appearances the evidence shouts out. Now, while a good defense attorney, would have some difficulty crafting a plausible defense, it would not be impossible for GZ to flatly contest what the jury and prosecutor thinks the evidence shows, he needs a believable word or three from GZ to make it work.
GZ stripped himself completely of any and all credibility at the bond hearing. Thus, his attorney is left with nothing but, to stand in front of they jury, flapping his jaw and waving his arms, then shaking his head and flapping his arms, pounding his hands and making strange facial expressions. Hardly what’s needed to convince a jury that the evidence doesn’t show, what the prosecution will claim that it does. His summation will be an empty summation, making the necessary claims of innocence, without offering and real evidence to show why his words should be taken seriously. In short, he will proceed as though GZ was telling the truth and that the jury should believe him, but alas, by that time, no one with any brains will.
No matter how good a lawyer may be, he has to have something to work with! GZ has thrown everything away! All O’Mara can do now is make a lengthy emotional appeal.
Searching, I think O’Mara realizes he cannot overcome the avalanche of overwhelming physical and forensic evidence, and thus he is trying to work the “public opinion” as much as possible in prep for cutting a deal with Corey. I think the deal will be based upon a trade: Defense gives up defending and appealing and prosecution gives up making all the evidence public at a trial. The reason I think this still might fly, in spite of the fact that the prosecution is so strong, is that the prosecution DOES have a desire to NOT make it all public because it looks so bad for the SPD and Wolfinger. And who knows whose connections are going to be standing there with their whatzis (plural) hanging out.
It is a semi smart move because Omara may know his client is screwed and if he at least takes out the racial aspect of the crime, Zimmerman may get a less severe sentence
Off topic – Does anyone know for sure if the docket sounding on Oct 17 @ 9 am and the hearing scheduled on Oct 19 @ 130pm will be televised on TruTv?
TIA
Brown
I don’t know.
okie dokie
i’m sure HLN/In Session will air it. but you can also go to CNN and watch the live feed without those annoying commercials!!
Thanks so much for your reply, I will now set the dvr.
A little off topic – but someone lead me to the post by Patricia where she lays out in detail how she believes it went down on February 26th between GZ and Trayvon? It was an excellent post and I can’t find it ….but I know it is here somewhere. TIA
Thanks Xena – but that’s not the one I was looking for. I have gone through tons and tons of posts. Patricia did a post explaining how she believed GZ and Trayvon came into contact that night and how after shooting Trayvon, he turned Trayvon over to make sure the bullet did not go straight through into the ground…. That is the one I am trying to find. Thanks again for your help.
Sorry. Patricia hasn’t been around for several days but when she returns, she can probably lead you right to it. It might be on that same page because there was lots of discussion on that subject.
I donated! >^^< meow!
I DONATED 200.00 to the Martin/Fulton family. (((ROAR!!!)))
How sweet of both of you for donating!!!!! Goodness and doing what’s right always prevails!!! Hopefully in the verdict of 25 years to life for George Zimmerman also!
How does anyone donate to them? Please tell me the Martin/Fulton family do not have a Zimmerman-type begging website set up.
WOW! Roar indeed!! 🙂
How did you do that?
Jun says: “Zimmerman’s actions is what makes him a racist, a predator, a killer, a murderer, a bully, a liar, a scam artist, a rapist, an asshole. The Zimmerman family go on with words how they are so great and better than everyone but their actions say something different about them.”
Well-said Jun. Do you think O’Mara is aware of the theory that GZ’s actions making his words lies?
Zimmerman family is disgusting continuing the lies in spite of evidence of GZ’s actions that contradict his words. They are either incredibly stupid or incredibly devious. Just for spite, for their sake, I hope GZ is charged with a hate crime, on top of the 2nd degree murder charge exposing the whole family as frauds.
Yes, the family of Z is disgusting and their actions are appalling. I have never ssen anthing like this in my life! These shameless people continue to coddle, and shelter their little Georgie Porgie and believe in his iies or they pretend to believe in his lies. They are just sorry that his little game blew up in his face and he has to now face justice.
That is why I do not want for GZ to stand trial in front of the whole world and be humiliated along with his entire trashy family, as the Prosecution teams lays out their evidence and as they ask him to expain the many inconsistencies in his stories as he stumbles for answers which he cannot answer and MOM continually interrupts with cries of “OJECTION” your honor. I want for the entire country and his family to hear the screams and pleadings of TM, as he family wepts in the courtroom because they know and we all know that it is TM screaming for him to spare his life. At that moment, was GZ in danger? NO! I want for the jury to annouce, “GUILTY” as he stands there and asthe smug grin is wiped off of his face, but what I want to hear and see are TM’s parents as they make their VIctim Impact Statements to GZ! Then they can properly tell GZ to go to hell!
I am fairly sure Omara is not dumb and does not realize the evidence, unless he did not read it. I can already tell Omara is going to be using the “SANDUSKY RAPE VICTIM BLAME AND CONSPIRACY TO GET THE DEFENDANT” type defense. Omara does not realize it at first by what Gilbreath said when they said George’s inconsistencies is how they know he is full of it. However, despite the evidence being available, people want to believe in George for agendas.
Paul Mooney, although a comedian, makes an excellent point, in that actions speak louder than words. Zimmerman’s actions is what makes him a racist, a predator, a killer, a murderer, a bully, a liar, a scam artist, a rapist, an asshole. The Zimmerman family go on with words how they are so great and better than everyone but their actions say something different about them.
Jun, You make an excellent point. It is almost like attorneys who litigate employment discrimination cases. The federal court districts are still somewhat divided on requirements, but a good lawyer knows that actions demonstrate racial discrimination.
love Paul Mooney thanks for the video…
You don’t have to be a racist to discriminate against a race of people you don’t even have to hate them sometimes people don’t even know they are doing that very thing. ie. locking your car door when a black man walks by or a store owner or employee following blacks around a store prentending to clean while they are trying to shop or crossing the street when you see them walking towards you. Race played a major part in this case from both Zimmerman and the spd. George profiled trayvon because of his skin color while wearing a hoodie. No one can tell me different because if trayvon was a white young man he would not have seemed suspicious to George just as if it was a young white kid laying face down in the wet grass with a bullet hole in his chest and a tear stained face with nothing but a snack from the store on his person that whom ever was responsible for his death white, black or red they would have been arrested and charged that very night. Yes race played a major part in everything that happened that night.
Correct. There’s also a big difference between being “prejudice” and being a “racist” even thou a lot of people think they are one and the same.
Agree. There’s a difference between being prejudiced, racist and bigoted. Many people are prejudiced because it’s based on ignorance, and they can get over that by getting to know others. Bigots are entirely different animals.
Shannon, Grahase, Xena, Cielo, how do you make those little pictures come up with your comments?
I signed up for my own Word Press blog, picked an avatar and viola!
Malisha. Try http://www.gravatar.com. You set up a gravatar profile/account. Your gravatar connects to your email address so whenever you post to a site using your email account that also has the gravatar plug-in, a question should come up asking if you want to log-in using your gravatar.
Thank you Xena!
@Digger. No problem.
Something else just occurred to me. When the media reported that Zimmerman may have said “coon” under his breathe, it was when Lee and Wolfinger were making excuses for why GZ was not arrested. The feds were then asked to investigate if they could confirm that GZ said “coon” and charge GZ with a racial hate crime.
I have thought from the beginning that GZ did have some racial thorn in the side because of his telling of these young black males hanging around close to his home where his wife was. Not much has been said and simple jealousy doesn’t mean racial. However,
if he was disturbed about their being too close to Shellie that could
prompt utterance of “black” which in itself is not racial but put it all with GZ following and continuing on to a kill, it may easily be taken to be understood there was racial undertone.
What?
Rachael, I understand Digger to say that GZ was concerned about the stereotype that all Black men want to rape White women, so he had to protect ShelLIE from Black males being too close to her.
How could O’Mara tell who the racists were, in order to refuse their contributions?
Easy. All those with contributions under $4.50 who sent it in on a Thursday that fell on an even numbered day of the month. Those damned bigots, don’t take THEIR money! Shame on them!
Reblogged this on changsterdj and commented:
My prayers and heart go for justice as the obstructions from the Zimmerman camp are nothing but holograms that are hollow
The letter GZ’s father wrote in the initial stages in response to the public outcry also placed race into the mix. He repeatedly accused the “black community” of wanting to harm GZ.
Not to mention Papa Z’s statement that they stereotype people on race by his statement that George would do the same to Asians if it was Asians doing the burglaries. The Z team is saying that they should be legally allowed to jump to conclusions of others with no valid proof except race, and infringe on a person’s rights based on their perception of race. The simple fact is Zimmerman could target white, black, asian, latino, and other types of people and kids, and considering his history, racism and perceived weakness and subjectivity to bullying is how Zimmerman targets people.
Before he deleted the GZLC Facebook page, OM could evaluate names and comments on the site to determine who was racist and who was not, or at least who had and had not made overtly racist remarks.
But then the fact is, racists WERE/are contributing, or trying to. They can say it is only “Travyonites” (or whatever lingo they use) who brought race into it, but they cannot distance themselves from it.
True. Not all show their true colors or their reasons for contributing.
No sweat off O’Mara’s nose. The brilliant folks in the Treehouse have found a way by contributing to Robert Sr. and Gladys with notes to give George. This money needs no accounting. I am sure the authorities, if necessary, will be interested in that too. But, there has to be a tie-in somewhere. Someone said earlier that this account is going to be used for Georges getaway.
The treehouse is known as the Conservative Tinfoil Hat. That money is donated electronically and all their written notes are there hence it is accounted for. It will be under scrutiny and they are actually screwing Omara out of the money to be perfectly honest. Omara is going to want to know the ins and outs of the money, because he def wants to get paid for his work.
It is just a fricken outhouse as far as I’m concerned. Nothing but sewage.
I sent OMara an e-mail saying I would like to donate to the cause. But, I could only donate in clear conscience if I would hear the truth first. They didn’t get back to me for some reason. Oh well.
I feel they can get the evidence to prove the racist negativity stemming from George by his own actions and the various statements from Taffe, both Robert Jr & Sr, and the potential connection between blogs such as Conservative Tinfoil Hat. There is a reason why Piers asked the racist donor question to Omara, and Omara even stated that he would return back donors from racists, hence even by Omara’s statement, that there is racial connotations, even though he does not want to admit it now.
@Jun and it will be pretty hard for them to distance themselves from the outhouse now, considering the letter from Sr. I wonder if posts are going to start disappearing from there. I mean really, some of the stuff that is posted there does NOT help GZ in any way.
They are being monitored from what I heard. They can try and delete things off their site but the simple fact is there are millions of witnesses and they probably have printscreens and IP addresses of all their posters
How would OMara be able to tell which donour was or was not racist. For PayPal, you simply plug-in your form of payment with a credit card NOT a race card!!!
I have no idea but that response sounds like Omara has something to hide
I’ve been wanting to say this for awhile but… WHY would MOM return money to the very base he is targeting for donations? Just how stupid does he think we are?
They are NOT anonymous donors, especially if they use pay pal!Pay pal is connected to their REAL bank account and it’s all verified before your account is activated. Any transaction using pay pal is well documented. Pay pal does not play that!
@shannoninmiami
So now O’Mara is throwing the Sanford PD under the bus?
Wow, just wow!!
This case couldn’t be more like a soap opera if someone had actually written it that way.
There’s a reason for that, and that is to throw the blame off of George in any way.
I guess. I mean normally that would make sense in a defense, but when you have a defense so riddled with inconsistencies, is it wise to perform in all media after saying not to try the case in the media and now make it all about race after saying it wasn’t? How do further inconsistencies help an already inconsistent defense?
They are going off the fact of “ignorance” of the facts to create motivation and belief
I would like to throw a couple of them under the bus myself. Smith and Serino for a start.
Smith is definitely involved in the wrong-doing. I am wondering if he was the one who was supposed to arrive on the scene after the NEN call and find things exactly as George had them planned (“He brought in a suspect all by himself because we just couldn’t get there in time”) but when Trayvon failed to act exactly as George had predicted, the thing went wrong and other folks called in to 911 and other cops also arrived, messing up the plan and giving reports that had not all been preplanned by Osterman, Zimmerman and Smith. Juss sayin…
I don’t see Serino as part of the original plan. Singleton was definitely the “bad cop” and Serino the “good cop” though. It was very obvious to me that Serino had received the word already, by the time he first introduced himself to George, that this was a free pass. “Murphy’s Law,” he said. “If anything can go wrong [with whose plan, Officer] it will go wrong.”
What went wrong was that Trayvon did not play the perfect victim by playing the “suspect” when Zimmerman accosted him.
Serino planted a seed with the witnesses he interviewed telling them it was George that was screaming. This is just one of the problems I have with him. I don’t think he was part of the original plan either. You are probably right – this one is a pass.
Serino made several mistakes one of which he lead Witness #11 after she stated that GZ was confrontational.
Instead of asking her to explain how GZ was confrontational Serino gave her some definitions of what GZ wasn’t and she readily agreed.
Serino, according to his FBI interview, stated that he only decided to file charges against GZ after he recieved pressure from some of the African American members of the Sanford PD.
I beleive that Serino was doing his job until this story went national and he was co-opted by the good ole boy wing of the Sanford PD.
Roderick, oh that makes sense now. Serino was so hot and cold and double-agent ambiguous that I couldn’t figure it out. He DID want to charge Zimmerman but when he was told not to do so, he then had to come up with a reason for why he had wanted to (when he was supposed to NOT WANT TO) so he chickened out and claimed to have been pressured by — guess who? — “African American members of the SPD” — code for “the Black Mob!”
He doesn’t know whom to fear most. He will be a bizarre witness, hard to predict and even harder to understand. Fortunately, with the physical evidence being what it is, his testimony is not crucial to the prosecution’s case. His impressions are just impressions.
On the other hand, for the feds’ investigation of what went on in the SPD during the cover-up phase, his information is likely to be important. But they’re grown-ups. Let them figure it out.
Re: Serino.
You said,
Serino’s impressions and opinions and are not admissible. He is a fact witness, not an expert.
He can testify to what he did, why he did it, what he observed and what he heard.
For example, he should not be permitted to testify that he believes GZ was screaming in the background of the 911 call. Nevertheless, he “corrected” witnesses at the scene who identified the kid as the person screaming and the mess he created by doing that may come out at the trial.
I have a feeling that he had not heard the scream when he said that to the witnesses, but we’ll have to wait and see how this plays out.
And by the Ides of March, other folks took notice of the case, race and all. Remember the old warning, George, “Beware the Ides of March.” Because by that time, the whole thing was public and the nose was (whether broken or not) really growing.
……..LOL
follow
following
Zimmerman made race an issue, also, when he went around to the residents and shot them a bunch of notices (either by e-mail or hard copies, I’m not clear on which way it was done) insisting that they should look out for young Black males who were preying upon the neighborhood. That is what caused Mr. Ibrahim Rashada to decide that he would not “stretch his legs” around the neighborhood because he “didn’t want to be chased.” His wife wept as she explained that she did not want her as-yet-unborn child to have to face such racial discrimination. This was all described to some journalists who interviewed residents of the neighborhood after the killing began to draw media attention. I believe Mr. Rashada’s age at the time he was interviewed was 25. So here we have someone very clearly saying that race was already an issue in how George was conducting his “NW” business around RTL.
Then we have Taaffe, going on TV shortly after the media lights lit up, and saying that George was “fed up and wasn’t going to take it any more” because there was so much crime in his neighborhood, noting that it was young Black males allegedly committing all this crime, and either at that point or at some point later adding the gratuitous and unproven comment that George had “thwarted” or “prevented” a burglary at his own residence, where George allegedly first “spotted” Trayvon Martin. When George was being interviewed by Serino and Singleton, asked if there was anything “else” about Trayvon’s interaction with him that night that made him think there was a crime in progress, he suddenly described a scene where a young Black male (not described as Trayvon, just someone young and Black and male) was leaning up against Taaffe’s house smoking a cigarette and this OTHER young Black male (without hoodie, without cover of darkness, without other Trayvon similarities) apparently looked at George wrong and proceeded to either snuff out his cigarette or throw it on the ground (George is a little confused about this detail but there was SOMETHING gangsta-movie-like about the deal with the cigarette).
WHO inserted “race” into this case? WHEN? Sharpton had probably never HEARD of George Zimmerman by the time race was “inserted” into this case. The “Great White Hope Hisself,” George Michael Half-Hispanic Kid-Mentor Practicing-to-be-a-Judge Zimmerman inserted race into this case. Before March 1, 2012 even rolled around.
He found Trayvon again and decided to confront him.
>^^< Here again.
I’m not sure if he says please or not.
Well see there, there you go! If Trayvon didn’t say please, then he was raised wrong. Raised wrong, means he was suspicious. Suspicious means he was “up to no good.” No wonder George did away with him; George’s world doesn’t have to be littered up with folks like THAT. This is not about race; this is not about a crime being committed; this is about good manners. And these fucking punks just don’t GET that.
Yep – all he had to do was say please. If he would have just said please. Isn’t that along the lines of what F. Taaffe said? If Trayvon would have just answered right.
The whole lot of them, there is something wrong with all of them.
Right, Rachel, Taaffe said if only Trayvon had answered George’s inquiry there would have been no trouble. What inquiry? The one where he said, “I don’t have a problem, man?” What’s the right answer to that?
Also, Chief (then Chief) Billy Lee said that Trayvon had “mouthed off” at George. Ooooh, don’t do THAT; it’s not safe. Lee went on to say that he didn’t know what had made George think that “he had to kill [Trayvon].” He assumed that George actually DID “have to kill Trayvon.” Interesting take on a killing. I wonder if Billy Lee has ever “had to kill [somebody].” ??
@Malisha>Also, Chief (then Chief) Billy Lee said that Trayvon had “mouthed off” at George. Ooooh, don’t do THAT; it’s not safe. Lee went on to say that he didn’t know what had made George think that “he had to kill [Trayvon].” He assumed that George actually DID “have to kill Trayvon.” Interesting take on a killing. I wonder if Billy Lee has ever “had to kill [somebody].” ??
————————————-
WTF!!!?? That POS Lee said “Trayvon mouthed OFF”?? Do you remember where you heard that? cas i wanna see about that. I can’t believe that MFer said that!! HOW DARE he say that! oooh that makes me so mad right now!!!!!!F him!! i’m gonna mouth off at him!
@Malisha: Malisha? You stupid! LOL! Yep, T should have saidm “Please, and thank you and yes sir and no sir” like George does. Don’t you know? George respects his elders! Then again, his elder mom used to hit him according to him for every little infraction. As for the fucking punks, or coons, though i think it was GOONs. what the hell does Frank Taafee know? I was appalled when I heard his drunk ass say that! G never mentioned that he asked TM anything. According to G, TM spoke to him first and those words were, “What’s up Homie?” Straight outta the 70’s!
You can also hear him yell “I don’t know!!!”.
I very clearly hear the “I don’t know” and I’m begging you” and I swear, I hear mamma in there. Can’t remember now where, and can’t listen to it right now.
I hear Zimmerman’s voice in the background while Trayvon is screaming — can’t make out all the words but the “f” word is distinct, and at the time that Jeremy comes back in and says to tell the cops to hurry up.
@Xena: How are you? Jeremy had to have witnessed GZ detaining TM. He may not have seen him shoot him, but he had to have witnessed it to be able to capture that screaming on his cell phone. I also believe that TM was, “LOOKING AT JEREMY AND SAYING, I”M BEGGING YOU! HELP ME!” That is what I truly believe. GZ by that time had was totally out of control and he didn’t know how to shut up TM except kill him and fabricate his BS story! I believe that Jeremy can put GZ away if he testifies and tells the truth.
@Rachael: TM was screaming out, “I don’t know, I don’t em!” something to that effect. GZ was doing some sort of interrogation and in his crazed mind, it was about the burglarys. Amazing that GZ claims he was the one screaming, but not one word about any of this other dialogue. Does he think we are STUPID?
@Deborah Garner-Moore.
Thanks for asking! (I’ve not forgotten about your email request.) I’m mentally tired — 2 projects this week and a court hearing. Not many notes from the hearing, but I have to keep track of deadlines and compile case decisions in preparation for an answer to summary judgment. And here I was thinking I had retired. LOL!
Right. The fact that Jeremy moved furniture to access his patio door and walk out says that he thought the situation was serious. I keep in mind also that they heard much more than what their 911 call captured.
The problem Jeremy has is that his wife (or girlfriend) is subject to incriminating herself if she says more because she is on the HOA’s Board, which gave Sybrina a claim form to file with Traveler’s and Traveler’s is objecting to representing the HOA Board.
Jeremy’s wife (or girlfriend) and possibly Jeremy himself, knew GZ. They knew it was not GZ yelling for help. They would want to avoid the impression of being held personally responsible for GZ’s actions.
>>Right. The fact that Jeremy moved furniture to access his patio door and walk out says that he thought the situation was serious. I keep in mind also that they heard much more than what their 911 call captured. The problem Jeremy has is that his wife (or girlfriend) is subject to incriminating herself if she says more because she is on the HOA’s Board, which gave Sybrina a claim form to file with Traveler’s and Traveler’s is objecting to representing the HOA Board. Jeremy’s wife (or girlfriend) and possibly Jeremy himself, knew GZ. They knew it was not GZ yelling for help. They would want to avoid the impression of being held personally responsible for GZ’s actions.
@Xena: You are so kind and sweet! Don’t worry about the info. We all have busy lives and I know you are busy too. Whenever you can, I will be so grateful.
According to Trent Sawyer, GZ was knocking on the door of Jeremy and his wife. He had to access their front door because their back door is blocked because he stated that in his interview. f you view one of the videos from Trent Sawyer, he explains this entire dilemma from Jeremy and his wife’s point of view but of course still blast them for their silence and for knowing the truth and not saying any more that we know of.
Sometimes in life, you have to take a stand, and Jeremy and his wife need to face up to their responsibiility. They know exactly what GZ did. He shot a kid who had nothing to do with any of the burglarys. He was a good kid just out to go to the store like many of us do every day. Yes, they are going to be sued big time. They need to weigh whether or not they want to risk being questioned on a witness stand in a murder case because you know they are going to be questioned vigorously by the DA (and that man is a pitbull) A childs life was lost, and they need to do the right thing no matter what may happen to the HOA.
In the following vid, note why the feds are enhancing the recording. ABC later said that the reporter misspoke and it was actually a tape of the 911 call of an ear-witness. However, it is still clear that GZ’s voice is distinguished from Trayvon’s and is captured on that recording. That’s an advantage for the prosecution and another nail in GZ’s coffin.
@Xena: I am sure the feds have all of that dialogue figured out, and printed up and MOM has seen it and read it. How MOM plans to spin this one will be a mystery! How will ole George explain this if he testifies? His lies that he was screaming, and why he was in the backround, yelling at this kid? Lord, I hope they can decipher what he was saying! Some of us have already heard some of what he is saying and it is not pretty. That dialogue is so important to this kid in addition to the medical documentation of his absent injuries! I just pray for Jeremy and his wife to do the right thing and tell the truth! They both know what transpired, and they must have nightmares over hearing those screams. We know GZ doesn’t. He has no conscious!
MOM, with the help of Junior, wants to distract from the evidence that GZ committed 2nd degree murder and posture the State’s case as a federal hate crime. MOM’s scheme actually insults the legal profession who know the difference between state and federal jurisdiction. Shame on him.
@Xena: Disgraceful! I am learning so much about the law on this web site for you and the others who are attorneys or work in this field. My oldest brother is an Attorney here in NYC, but he practices Corporate law. He doesn’t even want to hear about this case or GZ’s name! He states it makes him sick! He states that GZ is going to be convicted based on what he has read so far, and that is it. MOM can spin whatever tales he wants to spin. Whether GZ is a racist? Yes, I think he is a racist. He based his fear about TM on the fact that the other burglaries were committed by black males so when he saw TM, he just assumed that he was “up to no good” because he was black. SIMPLE! Whether MOM tries to distract fact means nothing. The fact remains that his client murdered a teenager and that is the bottom line!
I love this blog and am grateful to Professor Leatherman for providing it.
That is also what attorneys have stated to me. One whom I communicate with on a regular basis reminded to keep in mind, “If not but for the fact that George Zimmerman got out and remained out of his vehicle, he and Trayvon would not have physically met.”
GZ’s request, “Can you have them call me for my location” moots his story about looking for an address.
Yes, but factually, the burglaries were insignificant. There had not been that many, and the majority were not forced entries. GZ qualified all of his calls based on “there’s been break-ins in my area.” although after NW was organized, he only made one call about a “suspicious person” before the evening that he called NEN about Trayvon. It demonstrates harassment, IMO.
For those who haven’t seen it yet, ScreaminJ has done some fabulous work on this case, witness statement, witness statement composites – transcripts and spreadsheets, keep and save this link
1. Trayvon Martin whole case spreadsheet
2. The entire collection
http://tinyurl.com/8b8gayv
Thanks for link, Lonnie Starr. What I really find revealing are the clubhouse vids. Trent Sawyer determined that the time was off on them before discovery was released that said the time was off on the cameras by 18 minutes. The point it, those vids absolutely provide that GZ stalked Trayvon for more than 15 minutes before GZ called NEN, then he followed behind Trayvon slowly.
That in itself if very intimidating. Maybe that is what GZ wanted, i.e., for Trayvon to act like a thug and approach him. But Trayvon ran and GZ thought that automatically deputized him to chase the “f’ing coons.”
Remember, Serino also said that he had gotten a call from a woman who said she witnessed George “trying to restrain” Trayvon, and Serino told George in a comforting yet a bit threatening voice, “I hope she doesn’t call back” so that the idea was, “I hope nobody can punch a hole in that theory that you did not confront ‘the guy’ you killed.” Yet it seems pretty obvious to me that once Corey had the case, that person who had called Serino anonymously would have ended up contacted by the State. Why the witness statement was not released yet, I don’t know. Perhaps there was an issue of the woman fearing for her own safety because clearly the HOA of RTL wants that kind of evidence QUASHED so they don’t have massive liability and all lose their homes and more. Remember, even OJ lost the civil suit after he got acquitted, and this case is a lot worse for the defendant than the OJ case was.
Mr. Leatherman, In the 911 call when you can hear Trayvon, yelling for help then you hear Trayvon begging for his life saying “STOP STOP DON’T SHOOT ME I’M BEGGING YOU PLEASE” somebody said you can him saying that but I couldn’t. I was told it was the enhance version have you listen to it.
@Jamekia, Jessica, Rachel: You are all correct. I have heard those sceams and all of the dialgoue that you have heard? I have it as well, and so have at least several million people except the tone deaf GZ worshipers! Jamekia: Listen thru your cell phone if you can get Youtube on your cell. Listen with your ear plugs and have the room quiet. The screams are very disturbing and heartbreaking but it is necessary. TM keeps saying, ‘I don’t know, I don’t know. and you can actually hear GZ in the backround screaming at him about the break-ins.
What is interesting and I cannot help repeating this my friends, but GZ NOT ONCE brought up that is the dialogue that transpired before he shot TM! He never mentions it to Detective Serrino or Singleton or in the re-enactment. The cell phone recording also did not capture TM, saying, ‘You got me!’ Why would TM be screaming and saying all of that dialogue unless he was in tortured and detained at the same time?GZ in his wildest dreams never imagined that his words and that TM’s screams would be caught on a recorded cell phone! Can you imagine if this murder had been covered up the way G wished it was?
@Rachel:TM does cry out for his Mom. He yells, ‘MOM! Help me!’ My husband comes to tears when he hears that exchange because he cannot imagine our own children crying out for us, and we are helpless and cannot do anything to help them! He cannot understand how anyone could shoot that boy who was begging for mercy but GZ wanted him to stop screaming and he wouldn’t. Praise God that, that dialogue was caught on tape because that will be a powerful moment when it is played in court for the jury.
It is my wish, that after the jury hears that tape of how this baby begged for his life, they will sentence Zimmerman to LWOP! if the truth be known, George Zimmerman doesn’t deserve to live and he certainly doesn’t deserve to be walking around free in society with the rest of us. he killed Trayvon and, I think that is what he set out to do.
If he had control of Trayvon, why in the hell did he shoot him? His story keeps getting weirder and weirder. He has told so many different stories he can’t remember them. Justice for Trayvon.
@Francey Lowe. Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon because Trayvon’s screams brought attention to what GZ was doing. GZ knew the cops were on the way and a resident opened his patio door and said he was calling them. GZ shot and killed Trayvon to stop Trayvon’s screams.
GZ said on Hannity that he was nervous and terrified because he didn’t want the cops arriving and seeing him standing there with his gun. But, GZ also said that he holstered his gun after shooting Trayvon and previous to getting on Trayvon’s back.
So there we have it.
Actually GZ didn’t want the police to arrive and have to answer why Trayvon was screaming. Obviously if Trayvon was still alive, there would be no way GZ could claim that it was him screaming, because Trayvon could speak for himself.
All Trayvon would have to tell the police is that GZ had put his hands on him and GZ is guilty of assault. He could be charged and sued. It wouldn’t help that he was also armed, and he followed after the NEN dispatcher told him not to.
Of course, the police might have tried to cover for GZ, but then there’s be more protest marches. The police nor the mayor would want that, so GZ would be sitting in a cell. Murder was his way of fixing things.
LLMPapa has made another very thought provoking vid.
It still bothers me that when asked for his address, GZ responded he didn’t want to give it all out because “I don’t know where this kid is.” GZ says that Trayvon went down the street where the T joins. If that is true, then GZ must have been on that street and not walking to neither from RVC.
@ Xena – I mean really, what does ““I don’t know where this kid is.” have to do with GZ’s address? How obvious does that make it look like if he didn’t know where this kid was, he was going to go find him? Don’t other see that too? If not, why not. It seems so clear to me.
Rachael, IMO, GZ didn’t want to give out his address because;
1. The police could come to his house for info. GZ did not want the cops coming to his house. He never gave them his address in his previous NEN calls, and;
2. If Trayvon could hear the address, he could tell his dad about the creepy man stalking him and have an address in which to find him.
@ Xena – maybe, but I think it was much simpler than that. He didn’t want to give an address because he wasn’t going to be there, he was out chasing a “suspicious” guy and didn’t want the police to know where he was until he had him and could hand him over and be congratulated.
@Rachael.
I see 2 different motivations. “I don’t know where this kid is” in response to the question for his address, conveys that he was in an area where he thought Trayvon was. GZ said that area was the T.
It also follows his pattern. In all of his previous NEN calls, GZ NEVER gave his address. He didn’t want the police knowing it. In the event that he did not find Trayvon, he didn’t want Trayvon hearing the address and having the police knocking on his door with questions about stalking a kid.
“Have them call me” was motivated by what you say — he was going to continue hunting for Trayvon.
“…have them call me…..” because I’ll still be on the hunt.
Absolutely racerrodig, absolutely.
Excellent video by the way! Thanks LLMPapa.
The more the evidence is analyzed the more sickening this insignificant pervert becomes.
LLMPapa, excellent as usual.
OK, I had an idea for a video and I had no way to even begin to think of how to do it, but watching what you have done here has made me want to tell you about it and see if you’re interested and if so, if it can be done. You could enter it into one of those “short film” contests and get all a bunch of awards and all. Here’s the idea:
Start with one of those still pictures of George and set it to some good music that doesn’t play too loud.
Then cut into the film the first of the tape-recorded lies that he told. Like, “There’s a real suspicious guy…” and have George’s nose just grow a teensy weensy bit and the top of his head get a little bit of a cap on it…more music…then cut into the film the second tape-recorded lie. Like, “And he’s comin’ to check me out, yep…” and the nose grows a teensy weensy bit more, and the cap gets a bit more colorful…and on and on until, by the time you have, “I spread out his hands, because when he was hitting me? I thought he had something in his hands…” there have been about 22 lies and his nose is way way WAY out there and his face looks like pinewood and his cap is a perfect little yellow cap with a blue hatband and a red feather.
CAN * IT * BE * DONE? ***** ❓ *****
That’s a tall order, but I liked it!
EXCELLENT!!!
Love it!
Do you think Zimmerman clan has seen any of your videos? If so they have to be enraged.
I have never see the ShelLIE video and it came up after watching your latest. She has the deadest eyes, a scary person in her own right. I so want her to go to jail and throw in RZ, Jr for being an accomplice. I can’t help but feel he is the mastermind behind the website and then hiding the Paypal donation money just in case GZ and ShelLIE needed to make a quick exit out of the country.
BRAVO!!!!!
LLMPapa, you’re the BEST!!
You made my DAY, WEEK, MONTH…you’re in top competition for YEAR!!
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU [editor, repeat until next clap of thunder is heard, then add sound]
❗ ❗ ❗ ❗ ❗
Because of you, LLMPapa and Trent Sawyer, alot of people are getting a really good perspective in this case – the truth is in the details. Thank you both so much. I appreciate your work.
@grahase: Yes, I have to agree with you. LLMPapa, Trent Sawyer, McCain should be on the proscution team along with Professor Leatherman! I enjoy watching the video’s and reading the facts of this case from all of you.Does anyone what ever happened to GZ’s previous lawyers and what was that entire fiasco about? Talk about a circus? Does anyone on here know them personally or professionally?
Good work on the new video, Papa. 🙂 I remember watching plenty of “growing Pinocchio nose” videos starring Casey Anthony (another “world class liar”) and they were SO APPROPRIATE!! Lol. Did Papa also make those videos as well? Ah well….either way, good job in this one as it reminds me of the lying Casey Anrhony ones. These two really are their own worst enemies, aren’t they?? Their OWN WORDS coming from their own lying mouths are soooo damning.
I’M SORRY. I can’t do it. I’m so SICK of this sucker.
If you do the actual math and the evidence, Zimmerman screwed himself. I am fairly sure him and Omara are working on his excuse for telling all their lies right now.
Good! I am glad he did not remain silent because that is something he coouldn’t do in this world! He truly thought he would have been believed as his pals covered up his crime. In fact, they are still covering up for him. He had accomplices and until all of that is believed, TM still won’t have justice IMO.
@DGM, I to believe he had his cohorts with him on that night and, I also believe ShelLie was there as well. this case needs to move along in the justice system and therefore, the judge needs to tell O’haha to cease with all of these delay tactics of his. I have read that this is suppose to be a no nonsense judge and that she doesn’t like to grant a lot of delays. I just hope this will be true in this case. there is no two ways about it, George Zimmerman murdered Trayvon in cold blood and, shooting him was not enough because he sat on Trayvon’s back while he was dying and in pain. this POS is one sick “ANIMAL” but, he knew exactly what he was doing.
Thanks for posting LLMPapa’s video. I pray his videos help to convict GZ and the prosecution has access to the videos. (I also hope GZ & family have seen the videos as well. Love to know this lying family’s story is not bought by everyone and exactly why.)
Thanks LLMPapa. Your videos are so clever in unraveling GZ’s story.
@jm. I know at times that LLMPapa posts his vids here so I check first. If I don’t see it, then I embed. I love his work and that the vids are short and to the point. There are many more using YouTube who do great work also about this case, such as stateoftheinternet (Trent Sawyer) but their vids are longer — some over 10 minutes. Trent recently posted 50 questions to Junior in, IIRC, 5 parts.
great video, but every time i hear that song i see the video of the gorilla playing the drums to that song……..it leaves me feeling very strange the expressions on the face of that gorilla.
A bit late probably to reply, Xena, but trying to catch up with the blog after long absence your comment seemed to fit with what I was mulling over a while back.
It could be despite appearances that GZ did walk up to RVC talking on the NEN, not for an address which is ridiculous as he would have given it to the operator still on the line, but to locate the “suspect” who as he said they always did, from cutting through between houses on the dog walk onto RVC and out through the back gate. I seem to recall that during the re-enactment/interview GZ claimed he was on RVC when he said, “He ran”. This fits well with his arriving on RVC and not seeing the “suspect” running towards the back gate as he expected. It also fits with his walking back to his truck while still talking on the NEN and at the T, where he says he gave his home address exclaiming, “****!, I don´t know where this kid is!” on realising he was saying it out loud not knowing where the “suspect” had gone, maybe there it dawned on him that the “suspect” had not “escaped” as he assumed when he didn´t see him on RVC but was still on the dog walk… it obviously never occurred to him to think the “suspect” belonged to one of the houses! This theory fits with the clear sound of a phone ringing just as Sean signs off from the NEN call and which sounds like it is near GZ… DD calling? Did the audible ringing discover Trayvon´s wherabouts to GZ?
@gbrbsb.
Could be. What I’m trying to sort out is if Trayvon went behind the buildings as GZ said, or if GZ went down the T because he thought there is where Trayvon would go.
For sure, GZ heard Trayvon’s phone ring, or heard Trayvon talking on his phone. It is easy to hear GZ’s tone change then his plans on where to meet the police also changed to having the police call him for his location. A combination — GZ went down the T for a short-cut over to RTC BECAUSE he knew where Trayvon was and wanted to cut him off. He did that in less than 80 seconds because that is when the first 911 call came in about screams for help and the altercation was already well underway..
What has not come up is whether Trayvon could enter Green’s house from the back patio, or had to walk around to the front of the house. According to DeeDee, Trayvon did see GZ and said he was getting closer. That conveys that GZ was coming from RTC as Trayvon was unlikely to be looking behind him. That also conveys that Trayvon had no where to run.
Also, that gives reason to believe why GZ had to incorporate and give an excuse for his presence on RTC as someone might have seen him.
I kinda wish that Sean had never agreed to have the cops call GZ for his location. But hey — GZ said “he ran” so why should Sean suspect that GZ would still be on the prowl?
Just because GZ is half white or has black ancestors doesn’t rule out him being a “racist”. There are many minorities including blacks that have self hatred and support racism thru their thoughts and actions in our society. We just need to be strive to love and be proud of our ethnicity without hating or disliking others. Pro-black without being anti-white or pro-white without being anti-black for example.
Cosign. At least 12% of southern white have black ancestors and it’s the most overtly racist region in the nation.
Go figure.
I am just wondering here. The news has reported GZ has a black ancestor on his mothers side. BUT, are they referring to his birth mother or Gladys. Was the woman interviewed on Piers Morgan GZs mother or the woman who raised him. Embrace diversity is the only way to go! I invite you all to visit Winnipeg in July. We have a 2- week festival called Folklorama. There are venues ALL over the city. Each showcases the food, the dance, and the culture in what is called a pavilion. It costs next to nothing unless you eat and drink. But, this is the time of year everyone has an opportunity to learn about the different cultures that make up the city — and there are many. There is absolutely no reason to fear the unknown. Diversity is nothing but enriching. I have no friends from Ethiopia, for example, and have had no opportunity to get to know some of the citizens in our city until Folklorama. When I do have an opportunity of meeting someone originally from Ethiopia, we both will have much to talk about — what an introduction.
We know only that George and elder half sister “Susie/Grace” do not have the* same* mother.
George’s (and it’s assumed Jr) half sister “Susie/Grace” and Gladys seem to enjoy a close mother/daughter relationship….while the relationship between George and Gladys is distant and strained. That’s obvious in the jail calls during which they were speaking Spanish.
RJZ Sr doesn’t ever say “son”, he addresses him as “young man”
The parentage issue is pretty murky
Strange family dynamic…very strange. people.
grahase
I’m sorry…….
gz’s
sister “Susie/Grace” is the youngest of the 3 Zimmerman children
Robert Jr born 1880
George born 1983
Gracie born 1986* (the half sister ?)
Some curious comments on his old Myspace
http://www.Myspace.com/OnlyToBeKingAgain (his joe g persona)
1) a shout out to his VA cousins “the cruzados”
2)a shout out to FL
to his sister Gracie “I know you gave up a lot to be near me, but you gained a lot too” she, per gz “hits like a MF man”
Man, oh man
This is one very strange family
@ looneydoone, you know, it is really so ironic, at that outhouse, they constantly talk about Trayvon being a thug because of his family dynamics and tattoos, but GZ has some pretty strange family dynamics and tatts too, but that is never addressed there.
The other irony is, if I bet for at least half of them, if it had been their child, they would not want to seek justice through the courts, they would use their guns and take matters into their own hands.
Omara and other’s are essentially using the straw man argument that “blacks or hispanics can not be racist”. In actuality, racism, is a mentality that any person, regardless of race, can hold. I have no clue if the judge is going to be allowing TM’s school records, but either way, it sounds as though from Zimmerman’s side that door will be opened, and it is habit evidence on Zimmerman, so we will be hearing the myspace comments and other George incidents. Add the comments from Taffe, both Robbie Sr & Jr, of turning everything about race and blaming race, with Zimmerman’s own comments and statements, it is very clear.
Jun – Please pardon my ignorance. I don’t know what straw man argument is. I have heard the term a couple of times. Would you help me out. Thanks.
I’ll jump in here and answer your question, since Jun has not yet responded.
A straw man is an expression used in debate to describe an intentional mischaracterization of an argument into a simple argument that is easy to refute. Politicians and lawyers do this often.
Ah… thank you Professor.
Professor,
You know, I’ve set an opinion on many aspects as to why the Zimmerman case involves race, and non of them gave me actual satisfaction. Your words now have. Zimmerman did stereotype Trayvon.
Many teens have their own generational way of communicating, and since GZ alleges to mentoring them, he should have known or had good reason to know, that none of them, regardless of race, communicate in the manner he applied to Trayvon.
IMO, GZ also added the profanity into his story of what Trayvon said. Indeed, it was GZ who used profanity in his NEN call, and he applied it to “they” as a group in which he profiled Trayvon.
Exactly – they IS profiling, regardless of profiling as a black youth, a criminal or any other group, THEY does create an envelope to file away whatever stereotype you are placing in it.
EXACTLY!!!!
Whether George profiled Trayvon as a Black thug, or as a fucking teen-aged punk, or as an escaping asshole, or as a “suspect” — which he called him in writing that very night — is immaterial. When you profile someone, chase them, accost them and kill them, that ain’t cool and you may find that out.
@Malisha – uhhhm, isn’t that what I just said? I hope you were talking to GZ and not to me.
Of course, Rachel. I was just saying it because it sometimes feels good to say it, especially when I’m agreeing with someone whose opinion I respect! 🙂
I wasn’t talking to anyone in particular, just letting my fingers do the walking. 😎
As the old saying goes “..we all know who THEY are, right…”
They, as you stated is profiling no matter how you slice it. Thick or thin, he judged.
As to his mentoring….there is no evidence at all he mentored anyone. He added in his Shamity interview to the effect he mentored that very Sunday night. Notice there is not 1 black kid he allegedly mentored named on any witness list nor any one of a parent ever come forward.
Osterman stated Z has so many black friends they could have staged their own march …..where are they. Oh, my bad….it would have been Joe “Rent a Friend” Oliver.
As my dad used to say…”…what did I (Trayvon) do to you !!
It still comes down to his psychological shortcomings. I have known a few racists in my time and they have no idea, for the most part, that what they say, (and think) is stone dead wrong.
Look at the entire Z posse…..the things they say are so transparent it’s laughable.
I was on a NW from 80 to 88 where we used to live. I’ve had to call the police several other times and Z’s NEN call is so tainted I could scream. He starts with “We’ve had a lot of break ins around here…..” define “…a lot…”
He was doing something called “Set up by cop” Plain & simple.
I totally agree racerrodig,
Zim was setting the stage from the get go and if you’ve noticed he continued to do so even in his written report. He always starts with “we’ve had several break-ins..yada, yada”. I never knew the reason. Thank you, now I know.
“Set up by cop” Plain & Simple. Got it.
The only thing he knows about young black males, he saw in Trayvon. The lingo tells me the only time he ever talked with young black males was NEVER. He used language from his youth when he watched TV and used the only lingo he knew.
Regardless, Zimmerman targeted an unarmed kid with Skittles and Ice Tea, made disparaging remarks and assumptions based on Zimmerman’s own belief, made remarks that he wanted to pursue and get a hold of Trayvon, and held some deep resentment, while stalking Trayvon in an aggravated manner, before harassing Trayvon and terrorizing him, shooting him in the heart, throwing the kid facedown, sitting on the kids back, asphyxiating him, until the kid stopped struggling, giving him the symptoms of global brain edema, and a gun shot, hence, he also tortured the kid to death.
Even if Zimmerman did find him suspicious, Trayvon committed no crime & has a right to personal and private space without having that concern of safety of a stranger infringing it with their deluded conclusions based on deluded depraved thoughts of what constitutes a suspect and a criminal.
Zimmerman had no authority legally, probable cause, reasonable suspicion, proof to stalk, chase, harass, threaten, attack, and kill someone he simply found suspicious
We live in a society of presumption of innocence, and for Zimmerman to victimize a kid and play judge, jury, and executioner without any proof, is an infringement of the Constitution, as well as against the values of bravery and freedom, as he took Trayvon’s freedom that night to freely walk home, as a kid, with Skittles & Ice Tea
There is no proof Trayvon even hit Zimmerman and Trayvon is allowed to reasonably defend himself
Zimmerman’s various tiny cuts could have been gotten in various manners, such as staging, since he does not want to take responsibility for murder, and the injuries alone do not prove an assault
Thank you for that phrase, “We live in a society of presumption of innocence…”
LOL – I thought so, but I just wanted to be sure.
This just confuses me so much. I mean I do see the racial implications but the fact is that regardless of race, GZ shot a minor and said it was in self defense.
Is he purposely himself trying to cloud the issue with race?
I mean, as a parent, I would have a very hard time being told my unarmed minor was shot by an individual who claimed self-defense and there were no witnesses – other than the person left alive (who then would have every motivation to “lie”) to what happened and the story and injuries were not consistent with that person’s story. As a parent, I would demand an investigation and a trial to ensure justice (make sure that what was being said was true). As a parent and a human being, I do not want to think that someone can just shoot an unarmed person (any unarmed person of any age), just claim self-defense and walk away because no one saw the actual event.
I DO understand the racial implications surrounding everything though – as far as I do know that he had called many times about young black males, referred to Trayvon as one of the assholes who always got away and as a fucking coon – and I DID hear coon, loud and clear. I also have to wonder if some of the investigation was handled the way it was because of race. As a mother of a biracial child, it tears me up inside that something like this could be possible.
However,
“records from the FBI, the U.S. Department of Justice, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement and local law-enforcement agencies that would reveal whether investigators found that Zimmerman was motivated by race or acted to deprive Trayvon of his civil rights.”
The fact is, GZ he deprived Trayvon of his life. Trayvon is dead, regardless of why.
I thought the issue here was whether or not GZ acted in self-defense period.
I DO believe GZ originally pursued him based on profiling – racial profiling to be exact – but again I ask, is O’Mara purposely trying to cloud the issue with race? Aren’t “they” the ones who are saying the Trayvon side is trying to make it racial?
I honestly thought the issue was if GZ acted in self-defense.
Yes, I DO believe it was racially motivated. I absolutely see how race plays into this. However, did GZ act in self-defense? I do not believe he did.
Rachael – You sure do have my vote. I do not believe he acted in self-defence and the evidence shows it. I do believe this was a deliberate circumstance and the feds know it. However, they will have to wait their turn. I think the Professor (or someone else in the know) said racial profiling and hate crimes are at the Federal Level. He is only charged with Murder 2 for now. I think after this is done, more heads are going to be rolling, so to speak. This is my prediction. RZ Jr. and Elder tried to leave the public with a perception that GZ was NOT an expert in handling guns. Made me go hmmm…. I think there is more behind curtain #3 than we think, for now.
It doesn’t matter if George was or was not “an expert in handling guns” since it is undisputed that he “handled a gun” and that it was HIS gun and that he killed Trayvon Martin with that gun. To paraphrase Tina Turner, “what’s expertise, what’s expertise got to do with it?”
Malisha – It wasn’t George gun or Trayvon’s gun – it was THE gun, remember!
Love Tina Turner, BTW. She is number 1 on my list.
Yes indeed!
GZ stereotyping of black males lead him to prejude TM which is known also “prejudice”. His actions then were driven by that prejudice attitude which led to discrimination by thinking and then taken action believing TM was “up to no good and on drugs” all because of TM’s race/ethnic group. Hence he was charged with “racial profiling” young TM which is discrimination. Remember that early on FT and GZ supporters kept justifing GZ’s action because of some 6-8 burgalries in the past @14 months by young black males in the community. Was it a coincidence that TM was a young black male? Then GZ plays on the fear of main stream society about the “criminal and thuggish” black male stereotype who brutally assaulted him. Then the SPD was willing to believe GZ’s story without even doing a proper and thorough investigation because TM was a black male. Race was very much an issue in this case from the start IMO because we know that the investigation would of went different if a white teen died or a black male did the shooting.
You have this cooooorrect. Any one who thinks Z was “…protecting the ‘hood…” is a racist gun nut in serious denial.
racer,
Have any thoughts on the new “Zimmerman family Dog Whistle media blitz” ??
looneydoone….it looks like a concerted effort to funnel every one into a small place. Little by little, one or the other is making statements that are so off topic and make this look like they are the victims. The “sympathy for me aspect” is what this is about.
I assume you mean by “Dog Whistle” you mean what we don’t actually hear. Notice how many times Jr said the word “white” in his latest debacle. Notice all of the baby pictures in Ma – Ma Z’s interview. She had pictures from infancy to about 10 or so. Why?
They know he’s a rat bastard and know his past has caught up to him. I just listened to another enhanced 911 call in which you hear in the background during the scuffle, to the effect “..he wasn’t kidding was he..” (paraphrased) Did Z say he was after one of them, or would get one on them. His family has to know the world will connect the dots eventually and need to make him look like the boy next door.
Dog-whistles are coded language that appear to mean one thing but has an additional, different or more specific resonance for a targeted subgroup. For instance, “respect for elders” when applied to Trayvon is a dog whistle for Trayvon having no rights because of his race, requiring that he submit to any person of a superior race.
“Thug” is a dog whistle. It does not include any race other than Blacks and applies militant characteristics. It goes beyond the idea of “gangster” by denoting an anti-White attitude.
“African” is a dog whistle. It does not mean those born and raised in Africa who come to America but rather, anyone of African descent or rather, “Negroes” by race. It is intended to apply a paganism, uncivilized appearance and all Blacks.
racer,
Jr’s many references to *whites having to* is exactly what I was referring to. It’s a dog whistle to the rightwingers intended to convey they are “under attack “from minorities.
What I have to say about them and their dog whistle media blitz would peel the paint off walls
Have you seen this ?
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/cpac-set-host-white-nationalist-leader
Yep, the foundedr of White Nationalist/Separatist hate group VDARE, was a guest speaker at this year’s GOPTP conference !
“BTW, no one should hold their breath expecting “the FBI, the U.S. Department of Justice, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement and local law-enforcement agencies,” to fall over each other in an effort to tell everyone that they have concluded that George Zimmerman is not a racist. O’Mara will get the discovery to which he is entitled as it is released and no special accommodation will be made for this request.”
Thank you for the unvarnished truth.
The problem is, even if no one in this matter was a racist, the actions taken are exactly the ones everyone would expect an organization of racists to take. Of course, we know there aren’t any such thing as racists (except the minorities), so it’s all just an illusion of racism that everyone’s ranting about. In reality racism is probably just a media construct designed to grab eyeballs. My advice is don’t waste your time with that nonproductive stuff, look over here, pay attention to the great deal on this bridge I’m gonna sell you.
You know, a friend of mine, very intelligent woman (physician), was confronted with a situation that could not be analyzed using any of the standard methods. We looked at it this way and that, and we applied all our logical skills, and we got as much data as we could possibly get. And finally, I said, “We can no longer avoid the knowledge that this was the result of a conspiracy.” She said, “Well I wouldn’t conclude that it was a conspiracy quite yet. But I will say this: IF there were to be a conspiracy to make it come out this way, that conspiracy would work JUST LIKE THIS.” 🙂
Malisha says: “We can no longer avoid the knowledge that this was the result of a conspiracy.”
Do you really believe there were conspirators involved in the death of Trayvon Martin? I hate to see the waters muddied and would prefer, even though GZ hung out with idiots like Osterman and Taaffe who can be seen as racist, he made decisions all by himself to profile, follow, confront and kill Trayvon Martin and he will be convicted of 2nd degree murder and possibly a hate crime.
On the other hand I believe there was a conspiracy to avoid arresting GZ after he killed Trayvon by Sanford powers that be. Can’t get around that.
Yes, too bad all we have are hints of a conspiracy, and you can’t go into court with hints and hunches. Maybe what GZ is trying to do is, raise as much money as possible, before he rolls over on his friends?
JM, I don’t think there was a conspiracy in the death of Trayvon Martin. I think there was a conspiracy to cover UP the fact that a crime was committed by the killer of Trayvon Martin. But I wasn’t using my example to illustrate that. I was using it with regard to the conversation of whether or not there was RACISM connected with the crime committed against Trayvon Martin. Whether or not George acted in a racist manner in killing Trayvon, and whether or not other racists were involved in his doing so, are not terribly important, in my opinion. IF — for the sake of argument — a certain person who WAS a racist had decided that he was going out that night to kill a Black man, and IF — for the sake of argument — he decided that his best “cover” to do so would be to call in to the police reporting a “suspicious” guy and then get into a fight with that guy as justification for shooting him dead, he would have done it just the way George did whatever HE did — only probably a bit smarter. That’s all I’m saying.
Thanks for clarifying.
I think race (and wrongfully perceived “class”) played a role in GZ profiling Trayvon, kiling him and thinking he could get away with it..
I cannot forget W9’s statement that Zimmerman’s were racist unless blacks were white enough. Maybe it was the hoodie or Trayvon’s manner, that GZ wrongfully saw him as a thug.
You can tell the Zimmerman’s look down on blacks who NEED “mentoring” who live in a “dangerous” neighborhood.
Good way to put it, Malisha. I think though, we will have to see what the FBI and FDLE come up with. The conspiracy theory may yield nothing or alot more than we wanted to hear.