Zimmerman Open Thread: Friday, October 12, 2012

Please continue your discussions about the case here.

I also have a new post up:

Zimmerman: Be Wary of the Power of Belief to Shape Perception

100 Responses to Zimmerman Open Thread: Friday, October 12, 2012

  1. Sleuth says:

    Hello to all,

    The SPD Chaplain showed Traci Martin a picture of Trayvon the morning after he was murdered. The picture was taken the night of the murder.

    Mr. Martin described the picture as:

    “his eyes rolled back, a tear on his cheek, and saliva coming from his mouth”.

    I’ve searched high and low on various blogs/message boards, etc. for comments related to Mr. Martin’s observations of the picture, to no avail. It seems as though this would be very important evidence in the case.

    Does anyone here have an idea what could be the cause of this? I’m thinking the confessed killer tried to smother or strangle Trayvon; or perhaps it was a result of just sheer fright. I do remember a female witness saying she heard moaning and groaning. In fact, a couple of other witnesses made similar statements.

    I do believe the murderer turned Trayvon’s body face down because such a sight might have repulsed him.

    I have been following this case very closely from day one, and while there are some very interesting theories posted throughout the internet regarding how long it took the murderer to drive or walk from point A to point B, whether or not the murderer huffed and puffed or if it was wind, what kind of vehicle the murderer drove, etc. (all those things are relevant) however, nothing, and I do mean nothing, has gripped my attention the way Traci Martin’s described the picture of his son post-mortem, and those chilling screams.

    I waited patiently, hoping to get some clarification from the ME’s report about what could have caused, “his eyes rolled back, a tear on his cheek, and saliva coming from his mouth”, but saw no mention of it in any of the media/evidence dumps. Perhaps I over looked it.

    One thing I do feel certain about is that it will be brought up during the trial, and this particular picture will not be publicly disclosed, at least I hope it won’t.

    Looking forward to your responses. Thank you.

    “Trayvon Martin: Before The World Heard His Screams”.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/03/usa-florida-shooting-trayvon-idUSL2E8F31ZX20120403

    • Tee says:

      I have an answer for you professor. we here sometimes get side tracked from the questions you ask. This country portrait of blacks is what has lead many to believe that all black are violent thugs without education. It started back in slavery, they had to explain why it was ok to enslave blacks, subject them to the worst phycial abuse known to man deny them not only education but deny them to use something as basic as there own language and then forbid them from practicing there own religion. To justify all of this you must paint a awful picture to your community and the world of the person you are doing this to. This portrait that was painted some many years ago still exist in the minds of not only the people here in America but around the world. If the media flash a black face every few minutes with something negative attached to it what is the world to think but we are thugs. There are plenty of black people that do wrong just as it is of every other race but it’s our stories that you mostly hear. Colleges are full of black kids right now more than ever before you wouldn’t hear a story on the increase of blacks that are choosing education as there way out. We like to prejudge people here in America then when confronted with the facts act like we could never do something like that because “our best friend is black” , or ” I mentored black kids “

      • cielo62 says:

        Same story with Hispanics. The anti-immigration racists (the ones wanting more than just reform but zero immigration) don’t see that Hispanics are the largest group graduating from colleges today. People see only what they want to see and facts be damned!

  2. Malisha says:

    The question that was asked of Robert Zimmerman Jr. by Cenk in the Young Turks interview was very clear: Could Junior understand how it was perceived that an INJUSTICE was done when the police investigated the dead VICTIM for drugs and for criminal background, while at the same time they did not investigate the live SHOOTER for drugs and for criminal background? That was the question asked of Junior. What question did Junior actually answer?

    The question that was never asked, to wit: “Is there anything you would like to tell us about why you think your brother was not treated fairly during this investigation?”

    He answered it by saying: (1) Trayvon broke George’s nose; and (2) George was not considered credible because he was white; and, most ridiculously, (3) the whole campaign to arrest George was started because people mistakenly believed that he had used the word “coons” in his NEN call when he had not done so.

    Hmmmm. Let’s not nominate Junior to public office, OK?

    • Jun says:

      (1) There’s no actual proof that Trayvon broke George’s nose. Only George says that, and he refused medical treatment (gee, wonder why), and did not appear hurt, so that is hearsay at this point. Also George killed a kid, and has every reason to lie, has been lying, so it is understandable to at least suspect him of manslaughter

      (2) George is not considered credible because he was found to be a manipulator and liar of the events of the night of the murder, and George himself ruined his credibility during his in and out of court actions

      (3) George killed a kid, after being heard on a 911 call targeting and stalking someone with hate and anger. It turns out the person he targeted was the kid he killed. That is probable cause that a murder occurred and is even written in the SYG statute that the cops could continue investigation and arrest and charge upon probable cause. Everyone else signed a petition because George killed a kid.

      RZ Jr. and his cult act under the impression that if someone kills someone, we should take the killer at their word, because they have no reason to lie, otherwise it is illegal and is railroading, and anyone who calls for such investigation into the killer is a racist and should be threatened and harassed (big laugh for stupidity)

      RZ Jr. could probably run in Arkansas, seeing that they have republican representatives who want the right to kill kids, kick out muslims, and bring back slavery.

  3. Malisha says:

    MichelleO, I think you make a good point there. Zimmerman was so adrenalin-filled by the time Austin showed up, he would have presumed that he was the “fucking punk’s partner in crime” and he would have shot both Austin AND the dangerous dog too! Then the Zimmerman Klan would be screaming that Trayvon was not only a thug, but he was corrupting the morals of a minor who lived in that community and the two of them together were trying to gang up on white guys to kill them as part of a plot to terrorize the Real America!

  4. MichelleO says:

    THE ZIMMERMANS’ HAVE A DREAM. They are launching a historical fight against ALL black people who they believe are single-handedly misusing their civil rights to hang the “Zimmerman boy” and to disenfranchise the entire Zimmerman clan.

    • Malisha says:

      If you want to feel sorry for the Zimmerman Klan, go ahead and feel sorry for them for the simple fact that they do not actually HAVE the privileges they believe they SHOULD have and that they probably have assumed they always DID have. THEY thought their word should be credited way above any word uttered by any African American (except maybe Joe Oliver). THEY thought that if one of them gave a stupid little shuffle-foot “gee whiz golly I juss done what I thought needed doin’ at the time” routine to any cop, they’d get off any particular act they had done. THEY thought that if they played the “race card” claiming to be victimized by bad Blacks saying bad things about good Hispanicky Whites, it would work. THEY thought that people would care more about George’s nose than about Trayvon’s life OR ABOUT AMERICAN LAW. And they thought they would be able to make anybody and everybody see it their way simply by dissing anybody who didn’t.

      The loss of belief in the firmness of that system must be very painful to them. The fact that Judge Lester called it as he saw it was definitely painful to them. I predict they will have to tolerate a lot more of that kind of pain; I don’t know how they will deal with it. Right now, they’re lashing out.

      • Jun says:

        I dont buy that the nose was broken. I am not sure where Austin witnessed George slip and fall, but I think George fell into a bush, and slightly hit his nose on something going forward. Or he may have ran into that tree. It does not look broken. or it was staged by Zimmerman.

      • MichelleO says:

        AUSTIN did not say that he saw anyone slip and fall. He says he was walking his dog on a leash, when he saw someone on the ground screaming. He said it was too dark to make out anything about the person. He said that his dog got off the leash, and that he ran after his dog. The dog was gettin’ the hell out of there and probably saved that boy’s life.

      • Lynn says:

        Officer Serino’s statement mentions Austin’s “impression was that someone had perhaps fallen down due to the wetness of the ground and had possibly broken their leg.” (Pg 42/183 document dump)

      • jm says:

        Malisha says: “The fact that Judge Lester called it as he saw it was definitely painful to them.”

        The fact that Judge Lester saw straight through the GZ stories and said why may have been painful for O’Mara, but I don’t think the Zimmerman clan is in touch with the reality of what Judge Lester said including GZ. Loved Judge Lester’s no nonsense/BS approach and can only hope Judge Nelson is the same way.

  5. The first time I’ve seen the Zimmerman supporters use facts to prove their stance, although I don’t agree and still think he’s guilty… http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/5/27/44552/1872

    • Jun says:

      LMAO what facts?

      it is the same old spiel of …

      Trayvon is a thug, he deserved suspicion, he did a “death beating on GZ”, Trayvon should have sprinted all the way home from the 7-11…

      Pretty much, Trayvon has absolutely no rights, and he was on George’s turf…

      No matter how you put it, Zimmerman’s story is a complete lie, everything his brother says and father is crap and BS…

      If they actually paid attention, Zimmerman and his pops and bro’s story is off by many many minutes, and off the location mark and directional by a lot and the forensics do not follow their story at all…

      But who am I to judge?

    • Tzar says:

      sorry but you are going to have to wait for that first time

  6. Xena says:

    O’Mara wants discovery from the feds. Is he using the State’s case against GZ as a backdoor approach?

    • roderick2012 says:

      How can O’Mara ask for the discovery in the fed case when the feds haven’t filed any charges against Zimmerman and O’Mara isn’t his lawyer for the (non- existent) federal case?

      • Xena says:

        How can O’Mara ask for the discovery in the fed case when the feds haven’t filed any charges against Zimmerman and O’Mara isn’t his lawyer for the (non- existent) federal case?

        It’s O’Mara’s backdoor approach, but it won’t work. I had opportunity to assist an attorney in a case involving a federal investigation against her client. That is when I learned that the feds attempt to get a plea and sentence agreement before taking the evidence before the federal grand jury. As the embedded vid provides, the accused is not allowed to present evidence before the federal grand jury neither be provided with all evidence to be presented.

    • Xena says:

      The prosecution did not charge GZ with “Racial profiling.” The charging affidavit is that he wrongfully profiled Trayvon as a criminal. So in actuality, MOM is playing to the Zidiots with the “strategy shift.” He never had to defend GZ for racial profiling.

      OTOH, the Zidiots are a bunch of racial bigots, taking opportunity to congratulate GZ for killing a Black (fill-in-the-blank), thug, gangster, or simply the N word. GZ accepts money from them. That association infers his agreement with them.

      What makes this so instrumental is that they never, ever, discuss discovery, his NEN call — the case in general. It’s all what GZ said, personal attacks and demeaning the Black race. Effectively, everything — everything that his supporters say reflects back on GZ.

      Meanwhile, Trayvon’s parents and the prosecution sit back and watch the train wreck.

      • Jun says:

        I think Omara is just trying to save George from federal charges and is no strategy shift. I personally feel the case is not about race, but the murder is about facial stereotypes and hate coming from George.

        • Xena says:

          @Jun.

          I personally feel the case is not about race, but the murder is about facial stereotypes and hate coming from George.

          Honestly Jun, I’ve tried very hard to think of this case in terms of Zimmerman not being racist, but the more discovery and info I read, the more I am convinced that George cherry-picked who he felt deserved to be reported “suspicious” of breaking the law. There are police reports for RTL for crimes other than break-ins.

          About 2 mths before GZ organized NW, the HOA reported in its Newsletter that it was paying the SPD to conduct patrols in that community for traffic and HOA violations. Its Newsletters contain the same paragraph every month about renters being responsible for adhering to HOA rules.

          Those Newsletters are included in discovery material. I realize that upon first considering the purpose, it is understood to apply to GZ being the person to contact regarding NW. However, the prosecution also included several Newsletters before NW was organized.

          Then listen to the officer’s statement who met with residents about NW and read her emails. Taaffe contacted that officer. When that officer met with residents about NW she asked GZ if the HOA had rules for homeowners renting property, such as conducting background checks on renters. Renters seem to have been blamed for crime and problems in that community. This was Taaffe’s argument, subsequently confirmed in one of his media interviews. GZ did not get back to her with that information.

          Effectively, what we have is a case involving a renter, George Zimmerman, who killed an unarmed 17 yr old who was living in Brandy Green’s townhouse, who is a homeowner.

          GZ’s profiling is based on, or incorporated with, Taaffe’s own prejudices of assuming that all Blacks in that community are renters and responsible for crime.

          On the following blog, I don’t agree with all that is written, but the info about the property values, the HOA, and agenda to harass Blacks into moving out, is very credible. Couple that with the fact that Taaffe’s house is in foreclosure, and it gives a picture of a very angry man who probably felt that Blacks were living better than himself and if he had to go, they had to go.

          http://redyankeepress.blogspot.com/2012/05/zimmerman-gets-little-help-from-cracker.html

      • Tzar says:

        I think they got tipped that the justice department or FBI found something racial on GZ and they are getting ahead in order to rabble rouse donations when the charges come down

        this is all in my imagination by the way

      • CherokeeNative says:

        Exacty Xena. I believe that the state prosecutor was very careful to word the charging document and information so as to make clear they were not applying federal law in prosecuting GZ and relying upon state law exclusively. No where in the charging documents does the state allege that GZ was violating Trayvon’s civil rights or allege a hate crime. They conclude that GZ profiled Trayvon – but that, I believe refers to GZ profiling Trayvon as a criminal or thug…not based on race. O’Mara and the Z Klan are the only ones trying to keep “race” a topic in this case before the media.

        I it appears that no matter what the outcome of the state court action, the federal prosecutors may initiate their own criminal action against GZ under the the Shepard/ Byrd Federal Hate Act or any other federal statute applicable. If GZ is convicted, acquitted, or found not guilty, the federal prosecutors may still step up and initiate their own prosecution – although I doubt that will happen. But in any event, O’Mara, and certainly co-counsel West, are aware that they cannot obtain federal investigative documents by demanding it from the State – well, unless the feds have already provided it to the state – which I highly doubt. They may have discussed their findings with the State via telephone, etc., but they most likely have not handed over anything definitive from their investigation. The feds, in my opinion, will continue to leave their investigation in an “ongoing/open” status with no conclusion until after the state’s case has been resolved. So long as the federal investigation is ongoing, it is not discoverable. IMO, O’Mara is specifically requesting information that he knows he will not get to make it appear in the public eye as though the prosecution is trying to hide something or is railroading GZ. Just like the stupid comment about Trayvon’s web presence being deleted and someone being held accountable. This is a publicity stunt IMO.

        • Xena says:

          @CherokeeNative.

          IMO, O’Mara is specifically requesting information that he knows he will not get to make it appear in the public eye as though the prosecution is trying to hide something or is railroading GZ.

          Yes! It is also my opinion that MOM is doing this because some of the Zidiots have asked if their racially bigoted internet comments will reflect on GZ and the federal investigation.

          IMO, the feds have more than a violation of Trayvon’s Civil Rights under investigation. They have GZ’s phone records and internet usage. There are also interstate transactions that they might be interested in.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Working on public perception while getting ready for trial.

      Not to mention that O’Mara seems to swing whatever direction the Treepers want him to take.

    • Malisha says:

      Corey never said this was about race.
      She said George called Trayvon a “fucking punk” and that he “profiled him.” As what? As a punk, and as a “suspect” — she did not mention race and O’Mara has nothing to worry about. Proving George is “not a racist” won’t prove he didn’t murder Trayvon Martin.

      • Jun says:

        I personally feel the Zimmermans are a bunch of racists

        I am fairly sure racists target black kids, accuse them of all sorts of things, stalk and terrorize and kill the black kid

        I mean, he does stereotype black kids… but its best to leave that to the feds…

    • MichelleO says:

      WOW!!!!!!

    • bm says:

      This happen in other parts of life,
      If you are black and work in a maint field
      White assume you are not fit for the job
      They you cant write or read
      And if their an problem you cant not solve it

      • Xena says:

        I’ve seen plenty of wrongful assumptions based on the color of skin, in the workplace, shopping, and also in churches. What really stands out in the vid, IMO, is that people felt an entitlement to approach and question the Black kid in dominate tones, whereas their questions to the White kid were cordial.

    • Malisha says:

      That was fabulous, Xena, thank you so much!
      Cross-post it over on “How beliefs color our perceptions” OK?
      🙂

      The line I found most amazing was the guy deciding to take the Black kid’s tools, and the Black kid respectfully saying, “please, Sir, don’t take my things” —

      One thing about this video, though. The African American actor was in danger while he did this; if a guy like George Zimmerman had come up on him, he might have killed the actor and a cop might have said, “two thumbs up”!

      • Xena says:

        @Malisha. What amazed me about the “What Would You Do” vid is how Whites assumed they had authority to approach and stop the Black kid, while they approached the White kid cordially and some said they were afraid to get involved. IOWs, they feared a White bike thief, but felt they were entitled and had authority over a Black bike thief.

  7. Xena says:

    Junior is paranoid about race.

    • grahase says:

      Xena – Would you post all 5 installments. I don’t know how to do it and I think everyone here should give this interview a good listen. This is beyond the beyond.

      • Xena says:

        @grahase:

        Xena – Would you post all 5 installments.

        If the Professor gives me approval, I will. I hesitate embedding long vids because I’m not sure what that does with the amount of space allowed by wordpress before the blog owner has to start paying for the space. At times, it’s more convenient to go to Youtube and subscribe to the person’s channel.

      • grahase says:

        Oh – I didn’t know that. I do subscribe to stateoftheinternet or Trent Sawyer and tried to listen to the program last night. Couldn’t get through them though. It is quite disgusting. Did you listen to them. Your thoughts, if you have already. My first thought was — is this for real!!! my second thought was — what did he just say!!! I grew more and more angry and couldn’t carry on because I didn’t want to go to bed and try to sleep with all that crap on my mind.

        • Xena says:

          @grahase.

          Did you listen to them. Your thoughts, if you have already.

          My thoughts are that Junior has bought into the arguments and argumentative style of sovereign citizenship. The next thing we might hear Junior and/or the Zidiots argue is that GZ had a right to be armed even without a State permit because the constitution allows it — meaning, that the rules of NW deprives citizens of constitutional rights.

          I know their playbook.

    • Malisha says:

      Oh that’s just plain silly. Laughable. Junior claims that his brother was disbelieved because he was white. Bwaaawaahahahahahaha! His brother was disbelieved because every time he told his story, it became more and more obvious that nothing he said could be true! He started off with a non-credible, idiotic story and he went downhill from there. Think of it. Here’s his story as he told it, starting at the beginning:

      1. There’s been a lot of crime in my neighborhood
      2. There’s a real suspicious guy
      3. Yep. He’s comin’ to check me out.
      4. Shit, he’s running.
      5. He ran.
      6. These assholes, they always get away.
      7. Fucking punks [or worse]
      8. Have the police call me when they arrive near here; I’m not telling you where they can locate me.
      9. I was yelling for help but nobody would help me.
      10. Someone came out to help me but I told him not to call 911.
      11. The “suspect” emerged from the darkness.
      12. The “suspect” emerged from the darkness once again.
      13. He said, “What the fuck’s your problem homie?”
      14. I said, “I don’t have a problem, man.”
      15. I don’t remember if he said “homie” —
      16. He punched me in the nose and knocked me down
      17. Somehow he “mounted” me.
      18. He tried to smash my head on the sidewalk.
      19. He smashed my head on the sidewalk over and over and it felt like it was gonna explode.
      20. I thought I was gonna lose consciousness.
      21. When I squirmed my jacket came up and I felt his hand go down my chest.
      22. I forgot I had a loaded gun on me until I felt his hand go down my chest.
      23. I aimed my gun and made sure not to shoot my other hand.
      24. I shot him once.
      25. OH I FORGOT, he said “You’re gonna die tonight motherfucker.”
      26. He assured me he was gonna kill me.
      27. I shot once and then he kinda sat up and said “you got me”
      28. I spread out his hands because when he was hitting me it felt like he had something in his hands. (Huh? I thought he had his hands over your nose and mouth smothering you when he assured you he was gonna kill you and when he said, “shut up motherfucker” and before he took his hand off your mouth to slide it down your chest and remind you that you had a loaded weapon and…oh, wait a minute…)
      29. And I was scared the cops would see me with a gun…

      See, Junior, it wasn’t because George was white that everybody thought he was lying. It was because…well, I better not tell you why it was, you won’t believe me, because I’m white too. 😮

      • Malisha says:

        Oh I forgot,

        30. He wasn’t running; he was skipping.
        31. I’m not sorry I got out of the car with a loaded gun to not-follow the suspect while I re-established a visual on him; it was all God’s plan. ➡

      • Jun says:

        RZ Jr. is using KKK tactics of the false “race victimhood” at the hands of a world being taken over by “minorities” and this type of action is the same as affirmative action and is “reverse racism”. It is a straw man argument that only racists will buy. Another line of contradiction and lying from the KKKlan is that one day they are hispanic, then they are black, now he is white LOL It sounds like RZ Jr. is playing every single race card possible, and, using some unknown ones like the “whitey has to prove his credibility” to try and gain support from the Rednecks LOL

        but yet, all blacks are racist, according to him

        & this dude wonders why people think the Z family is racist…

        Are they really that clueless to how they portray themselves?

      • Do not forget 32 It was not my gun., it was not his gun. It was the gun

    • jm says:

      Is it wrong that I can’t listen to this BS and I hate the sound of RZ, Jr’s voice?

      Why are these media outlets giving RZ, Jr. a platform to spew his lies. Do they have an agenda asking leading questions?

      PS: Love the artist interpretation of RZ, Jr.

      • Jun says:

        I think it is one of the reasons he will only go on a show, if they throw softballs at him or any Zimmerman or perhaps the shows are just playing good cop. I’d personally throw hardballs at them given the opportunity

  8. Xena says:

    What the Zimmermans are doing by associating themselves with the doghouse, would be like the Martins associating themselves with the New Black Panther Party.

  9. Malisha says:

    The quote from the Outhouse: “The most sacred thing to an African American is his victimhood.”

    Massive projection. The most sacred thing to a racist is his sense of false victimhood!

  10. CherokeeNative says:

    I cannot and will not believe that O’Mara and GZ are not behind Daddy Z’s and Junior’s recent endorsement of the CTH. What I cannot figure out is how in the hell do they think this helps their case in any way? I always suspected that the Zims and O’Mara were supportive of the site but I did not think they would be stupid enough to blatantly announce it publicly while GZ’s trial is pending. I realize that the Z family is unstable – but what is O’Mara’s excuse? The whole bunch of them appear to be on a downward spiral…

    • Jun says:

      The issue is proving their allegiance to the Conservative Tinfol Hat. That site is not very reputable and is a complete joke to be honest, and they regularly photoshop and make up information that is false. I have no idea if any of their supposed letters from Omara or RZ Jr. are even real. The Tinfoil Hat for a while went on a tirade against Omara and now they love him.

      • Malisha says:

        TIMING: Outhouse’s tirade against O’Mara; then O’Mara asks for all the records of Trayvon’s school and social life back to middle school and DeeDee too; then Outhouse loves O’Mara.

        Meanwhile, follow the money. Payment for services.

        “If you can’t win on the facts, pound on the LAW.
        If you can’t win on the law, pound on the FACTS.
        If you can’t win on the facts OR the law, pound on the TABLE. Or, translated for the new Internet Age, go a-pounding at the OUTHOUSE.”

      • rachael says:

        @Malisha – “go a-pounding at the OUTHOUSE.”

        If the outhouse is a-rocking, bring money and keep a-knocking.”

      • Jun says:

        The Conservative Tinfoil Hat’s agenda is to slander Trayvon and other black people, as that is why they want the records.

    • rachael says:

      @CherokeeNative – I’m with you in your thinking regarding O’Mara. Oh, I know he “said” he does not want all this going on, but I’m not so sure he is as upset about it as he says he is. I mean he should be, but I have to wonder.

      But when it comes to the outhouse, I really don’t understand it. Like I said yesterday (I think it was), I got banned from there because there were some really horrible racist things said (to the point that the administrator even had to say to tone it down) and I had the audacity to tell them if they really wanted to help GZ, they really should not talk that way because then it make it look like he is the very kind of person he is trying to say he isn’t when that is what stands up for him. Again, their answer was to ban me.

      No, I just don’t understand why anyone would think having that kind of behavior backing you be good and want to make it public – even if it is the only behavior you can find to back you.

      I don’t know if it is really a matter of GZ dad and brother doing whatever and let’s face it, O’Mara really can’t tell them what to do, or if he really doesn’t think it is so bad. Or maybe he is afraid to rein them in, because then he will be trying to suppress their freedom of speech, but dang, in the sake of due process, they all should just STFU!!!

      • rachael says:

        For example: At the outhouse I saw this:

        “xxx says:
        October 12, 2012 at 7:14 pm

        The most sacred thing to an African American is his victimhood.
        ____________________________

        Who is playing victim? Ughhh. Puhleeze!!!!

      • Malisha says:

        O’Mara hasn’t got a great hand to play. If they refused to recuse Judge Lester, he would have played the appeal card; if they hadn’t had to reveal the physical evidence, he might have tried a SYG hearing; he’s stuck with a lot of facts he can’t manipulate out of existence and he’s playing for time. He’s also hoping that he can get a big change in the “climate” out there but strangely, the climate change isn’t helping. I think Outhouse is sustaining the Zimmermans’ deservedly fragile egos and George is living on donations of money and impotent rage, both collected at or by the Outhouse and a few remaining exploitive friends. Osterman’s book wasn’t helpful; Gladys’s interview was like Sominex but cheaper; Robert Junior’s no Demosthenes, and there they are, going “unfair unfair prayer prayer prayer; prayer prayer unfair unfair” and the only thing I can say is that it rhymes.

        But until “Criminal Minds” profiles Trayvon and comes up with a TV show proving he was Bin Ladin’s right-hand man, they’ve got nothing but the fumes from the Outhouse to keep them going.

        You know, the saddest thing for George himself is that he probably did not have the ability to get into the military. Had he done so, he might have been able to get away with killing an innocent civilian or two in Afghanistan or Iraq and that might have made him feel like a man enough to compensate him for all the torture he has endured while suspecting that his underlying lack of self-esteem is really perfectly appropriate.

      • MichelleO says:

        THESE are the same people who want “their country” back. There’s really nothing to figure out. They’ve been among us from the very beginning.

  11. CherokeeNative says:

    Thanks Malisha – I knew I could count on you. 😉

  12. Malisha says:

    So I went ahead and read Robert Zimmerman’s pious pompous poor-me letter posted at the OutHouse. And then I actually read the comments after it. Then I took an anti-nausea pill and had to wait for it to kick in before blogging again.

    Z says: “I very much look forward to the day George will again be a free man. However, I’m also looking forward to many involved being held fully accountable for their egregious, malicious, and I believe illegal, conduct. That includes many.”

    Ho hum, let’s see. Their “egregious, malicious and — he believes — illegal conduct.” That would be — in prosecuting George? I wonder how many times Magistrate Zimmerman bound someone over in a probable cause hearing on less evidence than has been presented to Corey in his son’s case. Maybe in eight years that would be — um — thousands?

    But let’s not get caught up in all that personal stuff. Let’s just see who the commenters think committed “egregious, malicious and…illegal conduct” and what that “egregious, malicious and…illegal conduct WAS.

    They name:

    Crump. He’s a lawyer who represents a family who asked for a thorough investigation of the killing of their son. Hmmm. I guess it was egregious and malicious, at least. After all, they shouldn’t have asked for all that investigating. They were TOLD that their son did wrong; isn’t that enough?

    Jackson. He’s a politician who made public statements. Well, that’s egregious and malicious to start with and should be made illegal. As soon as George is cleared, he can introduce a bill to make it illegal for ANY politician to make public statements his daddy doesn’t approve of.

    Jullison — well, he is a PR guy who presents his and his organization’s positions to the public. Again, should be illegal if it isn’t, since the Zimmermans disagree with it based on content.

    Serino – a copy who investigated the killing of an unarmed 17-year-old. That wasn’t his crime, though. His crime was in not believing George’s story. THAT’s PRETTY EGREGIOUS, isn’t it? Should be made illegal. Daddy Zim will introduce a bill next year.

    The Medical Examiner! I’m sure he did something egregious but I can’t remember what…maybe he failed to have the body of Trayvon Martin charged with the crime of felonious assault, post-mortem. We better check on that one.

    Corey – Well she doesn’t have to be charged with a crime. Dershowitz is already getting Harvard to make sure she loses her license to practice law. Then she’ll have to go work in the 7-11 selling skittles.

    BDLR — he’s a prosecutor. That’s not egregious or malicious when he’s prosecuting suspicious guys who are up to no good, but when he’s trying to prosecute someone who was just doing what was in God’s plan, he’s really out of line.

    Bondi — yeah, that’s right, the attorney general. I’m looking forward to the grand jury indictment.

    Scott — him too, the Governor of Florida. Yup.

    Bonaparte — wow, how’d he get in there, he’s only the city manager of Sanford. Oh well, let’s throw in two egregious plus one malicious, an illegal and a partridge in a pear tree.

    ————————

    Think of it. All these folks ganged up just to improperly persecute a great guy like George who was the only one at RTL willing to defend that neighborhood from the imminent threat to destroy it by egregious malicious illegal — stuff — and all.

    ———————–
    Nobody worry: God will punish all egregious malicious and illegal persons who have tried to derail his plan.

    • rachael says:

      Yes. Thanks.

    • Jun says:

      LMAO

      That is why I call it the Conservative Tinfoil Hat. No one has done anything illegal except for George Zimmerman, Bill Lee, and the rest of the Zimmerman KKKlan and friends. Robert Zimmerman Jr. is asking for the planned harassment of people who simply asked for an investigation into a killing of a kid with skittles and ice tea, after George was heard on a phone call targeting and stalking someone with a gun. What a nice community we would live in if we lived by their mentality that people are evil for investigating a killing and the killer, and simply taking them at their word. No one even bothered any of the Zimmermans until they came forward with their phony attitudes, stories, apologies, and lies as everyone was concentrated on George.

    • Xena says:

      LMAO!

      It’s all God’s plan that the Zimmermans live like vagabonds, GZ is homeless and unemployed with a GPS ankle bracelet able to track when he goes in the bathroom, and his wife is awaiting trial for perjury. Why or why are they whining about God’s plan?

    • Two sides to a story says:

      “Bonaparte — wow, how’d he get in there, he’s only the city manager of Sanford. Oh well, let’s throw in two egregious plus one malicious, an illegal and a partridge in a pear tree.”

      C: LOLOLOL!!

    • grahase says:

      No, no, no — you forgot the media and, possibly the most important – President Obama. Just listen to RZs interview with Elder tonight. The list gets longer and longer.

    • grahase says:

      There is alot of unwarranted attention being paid to a two-bit nobody murderer. The RZ Jr. tour is starting to smell like a scare tactic to threaten anyone who sits on a jury and pronounces GZ guilty or any witness who testifies against GZ. He should be charged with witness and jury tampering, obstruction of justice, and anything else the law has to offer to shut this guy up.

    • Fed-up taxpayer says:

      Don’t forget Mayor Triplett, whose decision to release the recordings of those 911 calls set off horrified protests worldwide.

      • Malisha says:

        Oh the Outhouse forgot about Triplett. Or maybe they thought that the release of the recordings should NOT have set off the protests, but should have made people rush to George’s aid because he was so badly maligned when in fact (a) he had showed his good faith by calling the police NEN line to start with and (b) all those people calling in the noises they heard in the backyard were trying to save him from a thug. After all, one woman cried and cried because she had been unable to help a person screaming for his life, but Serino assured her that the screams came from the guy who survived the event, so she should not feel bad about failing to prevent a death. That was one of the little snippets of this case that astonished me the most. Think of it. “Lady, it is true that someone got killed and it is true that somebody called for help before the killing occurred, but you shouldn’t feel bad about not having prevented the death because the person screaming for your help was actually the killer and not the killed.” Presuming what? Presuming that since the killed person had not screamed for the woman’s help, she should not feel bad about not having been able to prevent his death? In what alternate universe does that make sense?

        Now that you think of it, Trayvon Martin had not served George Zimmerman with a written request to not shoot him dead that night. Guess if you don’t ask for something, you don’t get it.

  13. CherokeeNative says:

    So, I am curious, why would the defense allow this?

    http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/10/12/message-of-thanks-from-robert-zimmerman-sr/

    Also, Junior recently tweeted the website link stating that if you really want to know the truth, one should read at the CTH.

    I can’t imagine what is going through the Zimmerman Family’s and the defense team’s minds by endorsing this website. Thoughts?

    • looneydoone says:

      Why did RJZ Sr send an e-mail to conservativetreehouse ?

      Because he’s preaching to a choir of like minded bigots and racists…….read the responses to his family’s perceived “plight”

      Every member of the Zimmerman family is deeply disturbed
      ..as are the zim groupies who in their self righteous, xtain racism are sending out prayers for them

      I’ve got a *prayer* for the zimmerman’s….and it ain’t nice !

      • Two sides to a story says:

        I’m not so sure that the Z family is necessarily like-minded in reference to the Treepers. GZ is reportedly a registered Democrat and I doubt there are many of those at CTH. But the Z family has many supporters there, like it or not, and they have to fish for funds and do what they think might influence a jury pool.

      • grahase says:

        I think RZ Jr. is hate-mongering and I think that is also a crime.

      • Malisha says:

        Being a registered Democrat doesn’t mean anything about a person’s politics. I know a person who is a registered Republican who has never supported a Republican for any position when they have run for office; he is a registered Republican so he can vote in the primaries and he always votes for the person least likely to succeed in an election, should that person get the nomination! I think there must be lots of people who do this and I think it’s super clever, actually. 😮

    • rachael says:

      I should not have read this right after lunch. Gawd I feel sick.

      I doubt there really is anything the defense can do though except ask for a gag order.

      • grahase says:

        Oh — I think the defense is loving it — it keeps people away from the evidence in the case, does it not. They are dancing to the tune anyone is willing to pay for. They do not seem to be whining about money any more, do they.

      • Malisha says:

        A gag would not affect this kind of thing; this is authorized by the First Amendment to the US Constitution. I’m sorry it’s causing you so much nausea. But on the bright side, you’re allowed to gag as much as you like; nobody can get an anti-gag order either. ❗

    • Jun says:

      LMAO

      Conservative Treehouse aka The Tinfoil Hat?

      They are the least reputable site for politics and news on the whole internet. They do not divulge in facts at all. Either way, I have always felt RZ Jr has been using that site considering his recent escapades are the modus operandi of that Tinfoil Hat. Basically, it is okay to slander a dead black kid and the Zimmermans are impossible to be wrong is their modus operandi. They can not back up anything they say and it is all photoshopped pics and them trying to sound smart when they are idiots.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Simple. Many donations have come from people who also support CTH.

    • Xena says:

      The Zims have few supporters. When you think about the few blogs dedicated to support Zimmermeth by demeaning anyone and everyone Black associated with the case, is there any other where the blog owner posts on a daily basis? They are trying to increase their supporter base and are using a White Supremacist blog for that purpose.

      • grahase says:

        The Zimmermans are feeling a great sense of belonging with the fraternal order. Yet, they do not realize that these people are using them. The father is half-white and Jewish, the mother is mixed race and the kids – GZ and RZ are true Americans – Heintz 57s. Believe me, they are not accepted in a group such as those at the CTH. They are fine with the Zimmermans as long as the Zs do what they are told.

        • Xena says:

          @grahase.

          They are fine with the Zimmermans as long as the Zs do what they are told.

          Yes. That’s the pattern of operation of White Supremacists. They seek to take opportunity and advantage of people with problems or who are dissatisfied with the government under the guise of helping them. Actually, those groups seek to retaliate against the government for amending the constitution with the 13th amendment.

          Back in the 1970’s – early 1980’s, they came to northern Illinois where farmers were having problems paying their debts. They held “home schools” teaching farmers about putting property in Trusts in effort to avoid paying debts. Many of those farmers ended up in jail on contempt charges.

          Today, they are commonly known as sovereign citizens. They don’t care who promotes their agenda as long as it’s promoted.

          They still remain hidden, exchanging their white hoods for the internet, hoping that their ideals and arguments aren’t recognized as those rooted in White Supremacist agendas.

    • grahase says:

      Trent Sawyer has just uploaded YouTube videos of a RZ Jr. interview with Elder today. It is in 5 parts and it will turn your stomachs. It has become very, very clear what is going on here. Give a listen.

      • Malisha says:

        Grahase, I have seen on-line many Jews who have gone on record claiming that Zimmerman-father is NOT JEWISH and not even PART JEWISH. Puhhh-LEEZ I hope they are right. We Jews have enough trouble without every loon on earth being identified with us. I have personally known a person named Zimmerman who never had a single Jew in his family tree (and his first name was most decidedly and identifiably not a Jewish chosen first name) and who objected when he was incorrectly identified as a Jew. Please Please I hope there are no Jews in George Zimmeran’s twisted family tree, and if there are some Jews in that family tree, may they be on a branch that never knew it shared the roots that gave rise to this bizarre conglomeration of outliers, and let us say, Amen.

      • grahase says:

        Sorry, Malisha — I am just going by what Robert Jr. told Elder last night. You’re not telling me he is a liar are you (tongue-in-cheek).

    • grahase says:

      Are the infamous Zimmermans going to do autograph sessions next. Give out autographed copies of Ostermans book. 8 X 10 autographed glossies of Robert Jr. It is like this family is making the call to arms with the fanatical group hiding in the trees. Or, I should say – the Zimmermans were moving from hole-to-hole like rats (Robert Zimmerman Jrs. own words) because of all the death threats.

      • grahase says:

        Malisha – The wording in the alleged RZ Sr. e-mail to the CTH reads like a Junior creation to me – same phrasing and cadence. I don’t believe Robert Sr. wants anything to do with this case. My god, he can not even say GZs name. He either calls him George Zimmerman in court or Young Man in the jailhouse calls. I would not regard those as terms of endearment.

  14. Malisha says:

    While discussing the idea that George might have been involved in fencing or the like, on the last thread, someone pointed out that there were no burglaries in the neighborhood since 2/26/2012. I had seen that fact being used as the reasoning, by the Zimbots, for their claim that Trayvon really WAS in a gang of burglars (or worse) and now that he was eliminated, the troubles were over. On both sides, that fact doesn’t lead to any conclusions. There are two BIG reasons that there are no more burglaries in that neighborhood:
    First, people only burglarize in neighborhoods that seem to get no attention. Sanford, Florida in general, and RTL in particular, have been the center of attention since 2/26/2012. Second, there were NO OPEN BURGLARIES when George phoned NEN on 2/26/2012; that was another one of his lies. There had already been an arrest for the burglaries (thanks to roofers,, not to him!) that had taken place and the “incident” that so inflamed George from a few weeks before the killing was NOT a burglary; it was someone looking “suspicious” near Taaffe’s house while Taaffe had failed to close his windows and lock his doors. (Wonder why, wonder why, wonder why?) In fact, RTL was not a high crime neighborhood until George single-handedly kicked it up into the police blotter high-spot.

    • Xena says:

      I left a reply to this on the other thread. This is separate from the content of that reply.

      You are correct. There was no significant crime committed in RTL before GZ killed Trayvon. The “suspicious” person who GZ phoned in for being around Taaffe’s house, was actually someone who GZ described as seeing going through garbage cans on garbage days. IOWs, GZ had been watching that person long before the day he called.

      In that call, GZ said something that we also hear on his 2/26/12 NEN call; i.e., “I don’t know what his deal is.”

      Police reports for RTL provide that most of the burglaries were unforced, meaning that a door or window was left opened. Other than a laptop and a gaming system, the majority of items stolen consisted of jewelry or rather, untraceable merchandise.

      Keep in mind and consider what GZ did to “organize” NW. He went house to house with a clipboard. He didn’t simply invite to attend the meeting because he hadn’t organized any meeting then. The HOA President didn’t know he was doing it. GZ gathered names, phone numbers, and email addresses. He got up front and personal and subsequently, let residents know that he carried a gun. (That’s a psychological ploy of a bully or gangster.)

  15. bm says:

    Why do we believe in someway A black will always do wrong
    Why do we believe in someway A black is super inhuman
    Why is thier so much hate for some you never met

    • grahase says:

      What sickens me is that these adults are passing their beliefs along to their children. And, one wonders why there is bullying in schools, why kids join gangs, etc., etc. And these vocal racists and bigots are the ones who feel they need guns to defend themselves because of their beliefs. However, if they would stop and think about it — how about changing your antiquated beliefs.

    • Jun says:

      I dont feel that is true and it is only certain people that hold those beliefs…

      The bottom line is that there is good and bad in every single racial group in the world

      There are white, black, hispanic, chinese, vietnamese, mixed race, etc, that are criminals and there are those that are not

      The only people who push those ideals of hate are people who know no better and generally they will try and create the image of false victimization of themselves such as Zimmerman and KKK members and Hitler, as they all purported themselves to be wronged racially or personally to gain some support to bias and be prejudice

      I do not know why people hate so much but I feel some people simply have a mental inefficiency and deficiency such as Zimmerman’s deluded concept of justice and what constitutes suspicion and his habit and history of targeting and victimizing people, which is generally known as sociopath personalities

      From my observation, I think more studies need to be done into psychology because I feel tragedies like these can be avoided if we catch them early on

      Zimmerman has a history, which includes:

      1) Allegations of rape on his cousin for up to 10 years
      2) Kicking a dog
      3) Stalked and harassed numerous people in his complex
      4) Attacked cops
      5) Beat up his ex
      6) Targeted and victimized an Arab American coworker and others at his sales job in which he was eventually fired and was said to be very manipulative and deceptive, a two faced person who smiled in your face and stabbed you in the back
      7) Assumed a lil kid stole his bike and stalked and chased him and threatened him, at which the kid ran home and the dad came out to defend, and the police came and found out Zimmerman’s assumptions were completely wrong
      8) Started road raging and stalked some lady home
      9) Had numerous complaints of his aggressive “patrols” in that low crime neighborhood with his gun where Zimmerman lives out his cop fantasy, because he could never be a cop
      10) At an under the table job as a bouncer, he assaulted a woman for no reason, and was fired for being too aggressive, a liability, and was said to snap for no reason

      Considering all these issues happened before the murder, Zimmerman should have been arrested a long time ago or had some psychiatric help, because he is very troubled and violent and sociopathic

      • Fed-up taxpayer says:

        He should not have had a gun without supervision.

      • grahase says:

        There needs to be some sort of regulation about selling guns to people with a history of anger issues. You need a road test and written exam to even get a drivers license. But, I wonder how someone like George Zimmerman would ever get a concealed weapons permit. I guess he has the right to bear arms no matter the mental make up.

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