Ma’at, Trayvon Martin and the Tale of the Eloquent Peasant

The Tale of the Eloquent Peasant is an Ancient Egyptian story about the relationship of Ma’at to justice. Written sometime during the Middle Kingdom in the 19th century BCE, it relates a story about an incident that occurred during the chaotic First Intermediate Period.

The main character is a farmer from the arid and desolate Wadi Natrum named Khun-Inpu, who loaded up his donkey with most of his barley and set off for an urban marketplace in the Nile River valley where he intended to trade the barley for goods to take back to his wife and children. Along the way, he came to a place where the path narrowed down to the width of a loincloth bordered by a stream on the low side and a wheat field on the high side. A wet cloak lay across the path.

Khun-Inpu stopped when he reached the cloak. A man stepped out of the wheat field and warned him not to move or touch it. He said his name was Nemti-Nakht and he claimed to be the overseer of the wheat field.

Khun-Inpu asked him to remove the cloak so that he could resume his journey, but Nemti-Nakht refused. Khun-Inpu then stepped into the wheat field pulling his donkey behind him intending to go around the cloak and resume his journey. The donkey flattened some wheat, however, and then decided to stop and eat some grain, notwithstanding Khun-Inpu’s entreaties to to the contrary.

Nemti-Nakht started screaming in protest. He accused him of trespassing on his master’s land, destroying part of the crop, and stealing grain to feed the donkey. Then he assaulted Khun-Inpu with a tamarisk and beat him unconscious.

When Khun-Inpu regained consciousness, Nemti-Nakht was nowhere to be seen. Neither was the donkey nor the load of barley.

Khun-Inpu decided to find the owner of the wheat field and plead his case for the return of the donkey and his barley. Upon reaching the next town, he soon discovered that Rensi, son of Meru, owned the land and he found him down by the riverside in the city.

Addressing him with praises according to the customs of the day, Khun-Inpu told him what had happened and respectfully asked for the return of his donkey and the barley. Rensi referred the matter to his judges, but they denied Khun-Inpu’s request because, according to the law, they could not grant it unless he presented witnesses to verify his claim against Nemti-Nakht.

Although he was a mere peasant and outlander lacking a formal education, the judges were greatly impressed by his presentation, which was not at all what they expected from a person from such humble origins. His honesty and passion for justice and his fearless yet polite and earnest way of expressing Ma’at, or good speech would have been exceptional, even if expressed by one of their own. Believing pharaoh might be also be impressed, if he were to hear Khun-Inpu’s literally divine speech, they convinced Rensi to refer the case to the pharaoh for his consideration. In short order the pharaoh agreed to hear the case.

Pharaoh listened politely but appeared unmoved. Nevertheless, he agreed to allow Khun-Inpu another opportunity to argue his case. And so it went. Hee prepared and argued eight successive petitions, but pharaoh remained unmoved. Finally, in desperation he prepared a final petition in which he really let it all hang out speaking truth to power. He told pharaoh that if he denied him Ma’at, he would seek it from Inpu himself in the Hall of Two Truths in the Duat. In pertinent part, he said the following:

nn sf n wsf(There can be no yesterday for the do-nothing)
nn xnms n sX mAat (There can be no friend for one deaf to Right)
nn hrw nfr n awn ib (There can be no festivity for the greedy hearted)

Pharaoh was so moved after reading Khun-Inpu’s three fundamental truths that are so essential to any understanding of Ma’at, that he ruled in his favor and ordered the donkey to be returned to Khun-Inpu and for him to be compensated with all of Nemti-Nakht’s property, including his job.

The Constitution, Bill of Rights, and the Rule of Law manifest our fundamental values and principles. Together they form the basic structure by which we define and should conduct ourselves. They are not mere words on a piece of paper. They are sacred. They are our Ma’at.

One of the most fundamental ideas expressed throughout those documents is the principle of equal justice under law. In other words, no matter who we are and what we do, we are all equal and entitled to the same rights and privileges as everyone else.

No one is entitled to special consideration, much less a lifetime exemption from having to comply with the laws and the unlimited use of a get-out-of-jail-free card to avoid suffering the certain consequences that any of us would suffer for the same misconduct.

Yet, despite this fundamental and defining principle of equal justice under law, we are witnessing and experiencing a different reality in which race, wealth and economic class increasingly set us apart and undermine our faith and trust in our laws and institutions to treat us fairly and protect us.

Ma’at is breaking down and like Khun-Inpu did 3,500 years ago in Ancient Egypt as recounted in the Tale of the Eloquent Peasant when a law was being used to wrongfully deprive him of his property and deny him justice, we have to speak truth to power to reclaim what we have lost and restore our faith.

We must give voice to Ma’at and together we shall overcome.

Please consider the following question:

Have we not been summoned one at a time from near and far by our empathy for Trayvon Martin and our desire to do what we can to restore justice in his case?

I believe there is a spirit that moves us and I choose to call her Ma’at as the Ancient Egyptians did.


297 Responses to Ma’at, Trayvon Martin and the Tale of the Eloquent Peasant

  1. jennifer says:


  2. shannoninmiami says:

    Ok, i’m actually banned from robert jr. twitter account ( cant imagine why? LOL 😉

    Robert opened twitter account the day before he went on piers morgan. the tweets are pretty much in chronological order; top to bottom starts from today and goes to yesterday and the day before.

    Notice how brazen he gets ( with Natalie Jackson; she called out
    GZ’s claim he was the ONLY one who stuck up for Mr.Ware, cas she oughta know, she was his lawyer!) WHO THE HELL DOES HE THINK HE IS???

    *Notice the twitter conspiracy theory poor robert jr suffered from. sound familiar???


    Robert Zimmerman Jr‏@rzimmermanjr
    @NatJackEsq – SHAME ON YOU – you’d never of had a case to “take” and be “interviewed” on if GMZimmerman hadn’t secured Justice 4 S. Ware

    Robert Zimmerman Jr‏@rzimmermanjr
    @NatJackEsq – My Life’s work = you WILL be held accountable for your words/actions. You A’INT seen NOTHIN’ yet… I will see U disbarred.

    Robert Zimmerman Jr‏@rzimmermanjr
    @NatJackEsq @attorneycrump @JulisonCom The Scheme will be exposed, one by one, day by day – SHAME on you.

    Robert Zimmerman Jr‏@rzimmermanjr
    Friends, throughout this human tragedy, we have never taken your support for granted. Our Mother will speak out for the first time tonight.

    Robert Zimmerman Jr‏@rzimmermanjr
    Thank you Mom for speaking Truth, we love you, we support you.

    Robert Zimmerman Jr‏@rzimmermanjr
    Friends Your support is priceless, tonight on @pierstonight I will LiveTweet from the set to show my appreciation. My acct I share w/my fam.

    Robert Zimmerman Jr‏@rzimmermanjr
    My acct was suspended temporarily. People conspired to have me suspended. I’m back now.

    DAY 1
    Robert Zimmerman Jr‏@rzimmermanjr
    Thanks to our parents, our values are intact. Much has been taken from us, but they will never take our values.

  3. Malisha says:

    Remember, the Tar Baby and the clever “victims who figured out how to fight back” were the HEROES!

  4. Xena says:

    A comment from the Doghouse regarding an article about Attorney Benjamin Crump

    howie says:
    October 9, 2012 at 6:09 am
    Everbody gettin stuck to this Tar Baby now.

    And we wonder why Junior and mamma Zim are going on the media circuit with their mantra “George is not a racist.” Can’t tell that by his supporters’ comments.

  5. I have a new post up:

    Zimmerman Requests Martin’s School Records and Social Media Accounts.

    • Lynn says:

      I agree-ughh! Now tell me, does his mom actually have a twitter account? He is not tweeting ABOUT how proud he is of his mom to the world…He is tweeting TO her. Speaking to her personally. Self serving PR stunt.

    • jm says:

      Every time I hear anything about GZ’s self-righteous family, I just say an extra prayer GZ will face future charges and will be found guilty. They are arrogantly protecting a murderer. RZ Jr is full of himself and I think he wants to be a superstar. Does he have a website begging for money yet like his brother and parents?

    • Malisha says:

      Delivering her message with courage?

      Her message: “I don’t wanna say anything. I wanna say George is not a racist. I wanna say we’re perfect. I don’t wanna say anything else.” :mrgreen:

    • MichelleO says:

      THAT rat bastard. I swear I can smell them through the screen.

  6. Lynn says:

    Lonnie Starr,
    I have watched the video you have in your collection. [] I can not trace the origins of the tattooed man’s picture, but was mesmerized. I have felt from the beginning that the iphone pic showed up after the fact and was taken under strange circumstances…
    1. Who asks someone to do a photo shoot just seconds after murdering someone? If someone was pulling out a phone to snap pics of me after I just pulled the trigger, I would be smacking that phone out of their hand.
    2. Why would he ask if he was bleeding? Wouldn’t a normal person reach for the back of their head and then look at their fingers to see if they were bloody?
    3. The blood trails were always questionable. He would have had to injure his head after any grass shimmying or it would have smeared. The trails split and run on either side downwards as if he were leaning over perfectly still.
    4. The lighting always bothered me. When you use a flash in the darkness you get that blinding whiteness. The light reflected off his head was so bright, yet the redness of the blood seemed off to me. I thought “photoshopped” the first time I saw it.
    The coloring in the tattooed man’s pic seemed right. The arm and shoulder were flashed bright, but the face and blood were matching in color. His blood trails dripped and ran properly. They hugged the curve in his scalp and ran downwards. After looking closely at the iphone pic, I believe I see faint tattoo marks on the right side. Blood is darker through the tattooed areas and looks clearly smudged/cleaned/photoshopped at the bottom between the clean bloodlines that look cleaner than the tattoo pic.

    Anyone else have any opinions?

    • jm says:

      Lynn says: “Who asks someone to do a photo shoot just seconds after murdering someone?”

      I think they were trying to set up an excuse as to why it was okay to kill Trayvon by taking pictures of his head. The injuries are not consistent with getting your head slammed against the concrete multiple times, but GZ was so used to getting over on people, he didn’t think anyone would question him.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Now that I think of it JM, the photo HAD to be taken. Because if the medics cleaned up his head, his story of a death struggle would seem fraudulent, remember the uproar that started when there was no blood seen in the police station photo? Then the media did the enhanced photos and the blood trails were seen. Then boom, suddenly these pictures, taken at the scene appeared in time to salvage the story.

    • PYorck says:

      I won’t claim to know what is up with the photo, but there is a version of the tattooed man’s picture that doesn’t contain the blood.

      If that is the original then it would mean that it was photoshopped the other way round.

      • rachael says:

        I tried to click on your link and got:

        502 Bad Gateway



        Is it just me?

      • Lynn says:

        Excellent! I couldn’t find anything. Reverse photoshop it seems. So many ways to taint our thoughts. lol My head still reels with all the questions though. good work.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Yep, PYorck, that was a possibility that occurred to me. But… there’s also a possibility that photo was taken at a different time. It’s definitely not the one used in this exercise. It appears to be the same guy, but there could be other pictures taken of him, either earlier or later than this one, where he’s actually bleeding. So this amounts to no proof at all. It’s not the original photo.

      • Malisha says:

        Wow, that really makes me furious! Our side doesn’t have to manufacture evidence; we have real evidence. Doing something like that simply sets up straw horses and distracts from the credibility of the real case, damn!

        I wondered how the picture was located that gave rise to the supposition of the photoshop thing, and I asked several times and got no answers, in other places on other blogs.

        MY problem with the two photographs of George’s head are this: One was allegedly taken on the scene while he sat on something near the grass and spoke on the cell phone. It was allegedly taken by someone with a cell phone, per George’s request. THEN the EMTs cleaned George up. THEN they took him into the station house and we saw the video of him walking in with no blood rivulets on his head. THEN we see a picture of the back of his head again, with rivulets, in roughly but NOT THE SAME places, and the picture is taken against a beige or greyish wall, definitely INDOORS. I have been asking, over on the Turley blogs, and elsewhere, “Hey, what’s wrong with these pictures?” You get blood from two cuts, then get cleaned up, then no blood, then very very similar blood from same two cuts an hour or more later in a different location. Defies belief.

        Without the faked up photoshopping thing, there’s still something grossly wrong. Add to THAT the fact that the pictures don’t appear until much later, there’s no chain of custody, and when O’Mara is first questioned by a journalist about the first picture revealed, he says he is not sure IF or HOW the defense is going to use the pictures. THEN we do not hear any more about George’s head and we hear, instead, about his “broken” nose.

        So, 😕 😕 😕 ❗

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Well, it’s obvious now that none of these pictures can be used. There’s no chain of custody, so they cannot be authenticated.
          If I had to guess, all this about blood was merely for public consumption. Just to create confusion, not to be used at a trial they never thought would take place, but just something to help justify GZ;s release on SYG.

          Look at the picture taken at the scene closely. Pay attention to the length and number of trails, the size of the area covered by the blood flow. It’s easy to see that the brush like strokes, that rolling on the grass would create aren’t there. It looks more like GZ held his head over, while someone poured a red liquid on his head. The entire area covered by the blood (or whatever that stuff was) is flat as though the blood stain was rubber stamped on his head. It’s density along the entire course and over the entire area is even in thickness and very, very thin. A fresh blood flow doesn’t spread that way. The trails should end in very dark drops where it’s leading edge is a thick droplet.

          I’d be willing to bet that a medical professional would judge the blood to be faked.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        @PYorck: Yeah, that’s it! I hadn’t had a good chance to look so I responded from memory. But, yep, that’s the original. The GZ photo has the pixel blocks in order. It’s got some suspicious areas, but darken it and the pixel blocks appear regular and undisturbed. Even so there’s a funny “feel” to the picture I can’t put my finger on.

        That aside, in the overall it doesn’t match with a head that’s been bashed on concrete. As the martial artists say, it would be hard to accomplish more than a single blow, because when the victim tightens his neck muscles that type of attack becomes impossible. Trayvon’s hands would be slipping around on GZ’s head, with his fingernails scraping up dna. So that’s out!

        Oh… That’s it, it just hit me. The blood trails are flat! This picture taken only moments after, the trails should be thick with blood flow, not flat as though “rubber stamped” dried and wiped flat and pale.

        Is it just me? Or shouldn’t the quantity of blood flow indicated by the trails, still be thick and still flowing approximately what, 2 minutes later? That’s a lot of blood flow by distance and spread for 2 minutes, but there’s no thickness, the trails are flat like they’re printed on his head.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Later on I’m going to do a screen grab, blow up both of the pictures and examine them more closely for artifacts. One quick easy indication is “pixel blocks”. Digital camera write pictures with different pixel blocks. Take a photo and blow it up until you can see the pixels, then you’ll notice if the pixels are smoothly blended or if the pixels are blocky, many photoshopers simply copy a feature over a picture and either disturb the pixel blocks or you can see the difference.

      From what you’re telling me Lynn, if you can see traces of the tatoo, The editor may have relied on the “magic wand” tool, what that tool does is easy to detect, unless you do lots of time consuming pixel by pixel work. Anyway, the least sign of editing discredits the photo.

  7. Jun says:

    Click to access reply_to_states_response.pdf

    This is definitely a new low. This issue is not about yesterday, the day before, or anything other than the night of Feb 26, 2012. The school records are a waste of time and irrelevant. Even if they prove Trayvon was some thugged out gangbanger, the forensics and other evidence do not support Zimmerman’s story. So what is the point?

    Still Omara provides no justifiable reason for going through someone’s private records except “maybe perhaps they will find something”. When law enforcement get subpoena’s they have to have a legitimate reason otherwise they are shot down. Yes the state got Zimmerman’s records, however, Omara would not give up his medical records. How about that?

    There is also a distinct difference in that, Trayvon, has no ability to confront witnesses against him, so there needs to be some fair ground there. Trayvon is also not on trial for whatever he did in high school nor does it provide any relevant info for the defense. There is also a distinct difference in that Trayvon is a kid, and Zimmerman is an adult.

  8. Malisha says:


    (1) I think the Zimmerman family “believes” what the Zimmerman family wants to think is a good thing to believe. THEY are so good, and everyone else (except for those people who support them) is so BAD, that what they do is axiomatically RIGHT and GOOD.

    (2) Evidence dumps? They dismiss those as the ravings of anti-white gangsta whining Blacks who need to be disciplined. Why would they bother to read them?

    (3) I think the family has such a long habit of lying and trying to pummel everybody else into submission that they don’t even think about facts any more. Whoever disagrees with them must be lying and whoever agrees with them must be telling the truth.

    Those extremely pathological families act like that. That’s how a George Zimmerman is made.

  9. Malisha says:

    Hey folks, we can start filing official complaints about Norm Wolfinger in hopes that his bar license gets pulled! I’m writing mine up tonight. They do need to be notarized so I guess it’ll cost a buck fifty or so to do it but if enough of them get sent in, there might be some moving and shaking going on! The complaints go to The Florida Bar Division of Attorney Discipline and Professional Ethics, PO Drawer 15709, Tallahassee FL 32317-5709. There’s apparently a FORM 50 that should be filled in and it is available at under attorney regulation. 💡

  10. Malisha says:

    Lonnie Starr, here’s how I see SYG being used: When we have gone over totally to neofeudalism, all corporations will have security guards who are armed. When there is any noise from the serfs, they will be shot. The shooters will all get off by use of the SYG laws. Then there won’t be any problems with unions, protestors, or the like. Also police and their loosely deputized “helpers” like George Zimmerman will have free reign in the neighborhoods. That will guarantee a steady supply of prisoners to work for 17 cents/hour doing whatever the state needs done; you only get out on “good behavior” which assures a supply of in-house snitches to testify that any given inmate confessed to any particular crime. The lawyers can charge lots of money getting affidavits recanting ten years later so there can be habeas corpus hearings after which it can be determined that all errors committed in the convictions were “harmless error” because the petitioners were criminals anyway. Brave new world.

    • MichelleO says:

      MALISHA: The way I see it, America is already well on its way to being a police state. The same year that SYG was rolled out, I started noticing police officers across various states shooting people down in cold blood and simply stating “I felt threatened.” I started wondering why all of these police officers were mouthing the same statement, which sounded very juvenile “I felt threatened.” I soon found out that SYG is the law in 25 states, and with this law, police officers no longer have to “police” or even pretend to be “peace officers.” They can just blow away unarmed people. For instance, the same scenario of murder by police is playing out all over America. People can have their hands up, be naked, or unarmed—-and yet police are getting away with murder by saying that they “felt threatened” or “feared” for their lives. How can you fear for your life when the other person has their hands up, or are naked and clearly unarmed, or are running away from you?

      • cielo62 says:

        In many cities, the cops are the most vicious gang around. That “thin blue line” BS is just that- BS. I was shocked that just yesterday a former Houston Police officer was actually sentenced to 2 life sentences for targeting and raping illegal canteen workers. But one, like the eloquent peasant reported him and secured all the evidence. She also got 4 other women to report him. But the cop is not white. I read he’s a member of a Native American tribe and hated to be mistaken for Mexican. Dark enough, though, to be thrown under the bus by HPD. This one perp is but the tip of a very large corrupt iceberg.

  11. Xena says:

    The Zimmerman family has used a bizarre defense — the “all these folks are racist against white-hispanics or something ’cause they surely couldn’t be thinking our boy did wrong!” defense.

    They are forgetting that GZ demonstrated a pattern of calling NEN, qualifying his call based on “break-ins” and targeting Black men, even when the call was about something else. It was GZ who answered the dispatcher’s question about description with “He looks Black,” and subsequently made sure that the dispatcher understood, “And he’s Black.”

    Now, MOM wants to sue NBC for editing a tape when the truth is, GZ DID IN FACT offer “And he’s Black” AFTER he already told the dispatcher what race he thought the suspicious person was.

    What GZ effectively conveyed by his NEN calls and profiles, is that HE doesn’t believe that anyone of any race other than Black commit crimes.

    What the SPD effectively conveyed is that they accepted inconsistent stories from the killer. GZ’s re-enactment was so inconsistent with the NEN call that they should have arrested him right there.

    • Fed-up taxpayer says:

      When oh when will we learn that the SPD does NOT arrest the son of the State Attorney’s Army buddy? Bless our little hearts.

      • jm says:

        Fed-up taxpayer says: “SPD does NOT arrest the son of the State Attorney’s Army buddy?” WOW! I haven’t heard of that connection. Is it documented somewhere.

      • Xena says:

        @Fed-up taxpayer.

        When oh when will we learn that the SPD does NOT arrest the son of the State Attorney’s Army buddy? Bless our little hearts.

        There we have it!! Did you also notice that Junior did not get on the media road show until after Osterman went national saying that ShelLIE called him saying GZ had “shot somebody else”?

      • Malisha says:

        So the Army buddies are Wolfinger and Zimmerman Senior?

        It HAD to be Wolfinger; and there’s more than we imagine; most of the iceberg is still under water.

  12. Malisha says:

    The Zimmerman family has used a bizarre defense — the “all these folks are racist against white-hispanics or something ’cause they surely couldn’t be thinking our boy did wrong!” defense. It’s a bit stupider than the twinkie defense but it has more adherents. According to them, if you aren’t prejudiced FOR Blacks and against innocent whites, you’re sure to agree that George did no wrong.

    The problem with this defense is that it obviously assumes that 75% of Americans and lots of others world-wide are horribly racist against whites AND willing to railroad innocent people and destroy their families all for nothing, from sheer ignorant malice.

    HUH? Are we all that bad? That’s what the Zimmermans are saying. THey’re saying their George, who killed an innocent Black kid for no conceivable reason, should NOT be presumed to be racist because they all tell us over and over that he’s NOT. But we, who think it is necessary to prosecute a guy who shoots an unarmed kid dead, should be labeled racists just on the force of their say-so.

    They say, “George is not racist; therefore what he did was not wrong; therefore whoever thinks he did wrong IS RACIST.”

    HUH? Are we all that dumb?

    IF they do not want George to be thought of as racist, probably their best bet is NOT to call 75% of Americans racist, probably their best bet is to STFU!

    • jm says:

      Malisha says: “George is not racist; therefore what he did was not wrong.”

      They are missing the point. What he did was wrong no matter what race of the kid he killed. Right now, I think they are protesting too much and I wonder what is behind this. Hopefully more upcoming charges.

      Malisha says: “Their best bet is to STFU!”

      For more reasons than you pointed out they should STFU. The arrogance of Robert Jr, repeating lies and blaming Trayvon Martin for his death because he “punched GZ in the nose” and the mother blaming the media for portraying GZ as a racist and not her son’s obvious racial profiling on the call to the dispatcher calling black males azzholes and effing punks is sickening.

      Honestly, I am growing to despise the whole family who are hoping this mentally unbalanced liar will get away with murder. It’s everyone’s fault but GZ’s that Trayvon Martin was killed and GZ is charged with 2nd degree murder – and oh by the way could you please send them some cash for living expenses since they were “forced” to move.

      • Malisha says:

        JM, I don’t think they miss the point so much as they are starting from the conclusion (“George is innocent”) and working backwards through the “facts” to the theorem (“George can do no wrong”).

        They think like this, IMO:

        George is innocent
        Therefore Trayvon viciously attacked him for no reason
        Therefore Trayvon wanted to kill George
        Therefore everything George did was justified
        Therefore his being armed, his getting out of the truck, his whatever (following or maintaining visual or not following or finding address or meeting cop or practicing for his good-cop audition, whatever) were all RIGHT and LEGAL.
        Therefore George is innocent.

        OH and then they throw in: AND everybody knows that and the only reason he’s being persecuted is that Al Sharpton is a racist.

        • jm says:

          @Malisha Do you believe the Zimmerman clan actually think GZ can do no wrong or is innocent?

          I thought this may be front because of Zimmerman pride/arrogance and to admit GZ did something wrong would be to admit there may have been some bad parenting and dysfunction in the family structure and that GZ killing someone is a bad reflection on them.

          Do you think they pay attention to evidence dumps that prove Zimmerman is a liar?

          I just wonder why they are doing this media PR, protesting GZ is not a racist? Do you think O’Mara is behind this knowing something is coming up, like new charges hopefully.

          I know I am being mean-spirited but the more RZ Jr and parents talk, the more I want GZ to be convicted.

          Where’s ShelLIE? When is she going to come out to defend her husband against being called a racist and a liar?

          • cielo62 says:

            Jm- ShelLie will start talking after her trial IF she is found not guilty. She appears to be smart enough to stay quiet.

          • jm says:

            When is ShelLIE’s trial, anybody know? I wonder if she is found guilty she may be angry enough to turn on GZ.

    • Jun says:

      They cant see it from a logical angle

      1) Zimmerman is a liar and a fairly bad one at that
      2) Zimmerman was heard stalking a kid in an aggravated manner on a NEN phone call, where he disparages Trayvon, and is heard saying some threats and a potential racial slur
      3) Zimmerman kills kid
      4) A kid’s voice is heard on 911 calls screaming for help
      5) Zimmerman gives a really sketchy story and the forensics do not line up with his sketchy story

      I am not a legal expert, but ummm, it sounds like a reasonable suspicion and probable cause that a murder was committed and fairly close to presumption great for guilt. How is that railroading? So if someone kills a kid, investigating and prosecuting the killer is “railroading”? I also do not see how we are racist… we arent doing what Zimmerman did, which is stalk, disparage, terrorize, and kill a kid (potentially for being black), we simply trying to put Zimmerman away because he is a danger to people as shown by his long history of violence and bullying

  13. Malisha says:

    News that sheds light on the misconceptions that form the “res gestae” of O’Mara’s case:


    “O’Mara also noted that the state has gathered Zimmerman’s high school records from Manassas, Va.

    “Yet, when the same exact documents are requested regarding Trayvon Martin, the State denigrates the request as a fishing expedition,” O’Mara writes. “The irony is rich.”

    Read more:

    OK, O’Mara, look at what is wrong with your take on the case: This is not Trayvon Martin versus George Zimmerman and it never was. This is THE PEOPLE of the State of Florida v. George Zimmerman under a certain code section that makes killing someone with “depraved mind” and “malice” punishable at law.

    NOW IF two guys got into a fight, and then it was up to the state to figure out who was to blame for the fight, and they had two different stories about who was to blame for the fight, then it would make sense to check out their histories in terms of which, if either, of them had a propensity to start fights. But when one guy who does not KNOW the other guy suddenly decides that he is entitled to chase him and “maintain visual” on him and slander him and then kill him and even then, sit on him as he dies and even then, slander him, you just don’t have a situation that plays out the same way.

    It is NOT ironic that the high school performance of a dead kid are irrelevant to the fact that someone chose to shoot that kid through the heart. George never alleged that his reason for killing Trayvon was to straighten out his high school career. George did not even know Trayvon was a high school kid when he killed him. The motive and the conduct of George cannot now and never did relate to anything pertaining to Trayvon’s high school records. Furthermore, Trayvon was never charged with any crime, misdemeanor or felony, in his life, and now his life is over. So there is no “irony” in refusing to pretend Trayvon is an equal defendant with his killer.

    The motive of George in killing Trayvon IS an issue.
    The motive of Trayvon in defending himself is NOT an issue.
    The conduct of George in chasing down and killing Trayvon IS an issue.
    The conduct of Trayvon in either evading George, or physically fighting against George, or both, is NOT an issue.

    So the high school records of a guy who claims his defense is that he was doing nothing wrong and accidentally killed someone while he knew he was armed, dangerous and out of line ARE relevant while the high school records of a kid who went to a 7-11 on a Sunday evening are NOT relevant. Nothing ironic about it.

    What is ironic is that O’Mara keeps treating this like: “Two guys had a fight.” It should, instead, be described as: “Two guys had a fight because the one was trying to kill the other; ultimately, the dead one lost and the live one was charged with murder.” See? It’s not about personality or high school record.

    Only if we want to agree that it can now be open season to kill any kid with a less than perfect high school record can we cede the propriety of seeking Trayvon’s high school records. Probably, if that were done, Mitt Romney would have to be very wary.

    • Xena says:

      @Malisha. (((((Applause)))))

      With GZ’s school records, and his alleged mentoring of “disadvantaged Black youths,” one would think that he would know how to address a teen in a mature manner and gain Trayvon’s confidence.

      If we go by GZ’s story, then GZ lied to Trayvon — he did have a problem. Why go for your cell phone to call 911 unless you have a problem? When GZ said that he told Trayvon he didn’t have a problem and Trayvon responded by saying “You do now” and punching him in the nose, GZ omits that his action of looking in his pockets was provoking. GZ’s story is not to his benefit.

      One thing for sure — we and the State know that Trayvon was on his phone up to seconds before he was killed. GZ says nothing about seeing the headset, neither Trayvon’s cell phone — just like he says nothing about his key chain and tactical flashlight.

      I would like to hear him explain how he shimmied 50 ft holding that tactical flashlight.

      • MichelleO says:

        I BELIEVE that it was Trayvon desperately reaching for his phone to call for help. Trayvon’s phone was found in the grass far away from his body. Does anyone know whether Georgy’s phone was found near the crime scene?

    • fauxmccoy says:

      AMEN Sister!

    • Not to mention that the dead one was a minor. This is not about two men in a fight. It is about a grown man against a teen who shoots this teen in the heart after getting worked up in disgust for these f****n punks.

  14. Vicky says:

    I read the motion fold by O’Mara’s motion for the order for his subpoena and it makes my blood boil.

    Click to access motion_for_subpoena.pdf

    He acts as though Trayvon is the one under criminal investigation. He implies that the SAO has done something wrong by not advising GZ that they were subpoenaing his records. Based upon Florida law, they were not required to do so, if the records were obtained as part of a criminal investigation. And they were legally entitled to require the places who were served not to report that information to GZ.
    What I want to know, is since when does the defense get to conduct a criminal investigation on the person the state has determined to be the victim? How can it not be a fishing expedition when they have no idea what they are looking for? Can’t their investigators question the principals of his schools to determine if Trayvon had a history of violence? Can’t they question the SRO about his experiences with Trayvon? Why do they need to look at his records?
    GZ’s claim of self defense has to be based solely on the events that occurred that night. Doesn’t it? IMO, School records are irrelevant. Trayvon has not been charged with a crime. The incident that occurred did not happen at school or in relation to any conflict at school. I have yet to hear that Trayvon had any issues with his peers in or out of school, much less adults. No concrete examples that he had anger control or serious conduct issues what so ever. One would think if that were the case, the defense investigators would have come up with at least one or two people by now.

    He hadn’t been in school for ten days when he was killed. So, I’m sure he was over any “attitude” he might have shown for having been suspended and to stay with his father. His behavior during those ten days was such that dad’s girlfriend was willing to leave her child alone with Trayvon. His behavior at the convenience store was unremarkable enough that the clerk didn’t remember their transaction. DeeDee does not report that he was pissed at the world during all the hours she spoke with him on the phone. His activites in the neighborhood for the week he was there didn’t draw enough attention for any near by neighbors to even realize he was there. There was absolutely no indication what so ever that Trayvon Martin was a ticking time bomb. GZ on the other hand…

    They are also pissing and moaning in another filing about statements made by witness #9. They have implied that the prosecution is withholding recorded information from them. And that judge Lester heard recordings they did not hear, blah, blah, blah. I doubt the prosecution even plans to call her as a witness. If that part of the investigation happens to be on-going, do they have to turn over all recordings? If in fact theynhave not. I’m not getting why the defense feels those recordings are so important. I realize for those of us on the outside looking in view her claims as additional proof that GZ is racist, but they won’t make the case against GZ. IMO, O’Mara is spending way too much time trying to appease the idiots at the conservative nut house and not enough time focusing on the evidence that will actually be used against him.
    I realize MO has a job to do. However, at what point do his activities become an abuse of the due process clause? Or is that possible when mounting a defense?

    • Jun says:

      IMO Omara is an idiot, he has had more than enough time to go to trial and immunity hearings, and the places he has been looking are all irrelevant to say the least. From my understanding, to do an investigation, you have to have a good reason to criminally subpoena anyone, and a weak maybe perhaps, will probably not cut it. I personally feel it is more of a vendetta from Omara to put out the kid’s personal info than to find any relevancy, as you can see how his attitude changed once he and Z were outed for the money and passport deceit.

      IMO, Omara should look at other avenues for Z, because the story of a nerdy scrawny teenager who weighed a bit more than 100 pounds, beating Z half to death and threatening to kill him, while Z was heard stalking and chasing the kid with a gun, and all of Z’s injuries from his “death beating” being healed with a couple funny looking knuckle bandaids is truly comedy and only real hateful idiots try to sell that crap. Z has a better chance at an insanity plea, than a SYG claim, IMO. Z obviously only plays with one card from the deck.

      Omara, from what I have noticed, always writes hearsay, lies, and gets facts wrong in his motions….

      In the end, all I care is that this kid get some justice. Z took his freedom away by forcing him to run all over the complex trying to get him before he got away, terrorized him with craziness, then killed him. There was no mercy shown.

      • jm says:

        “Omara is an idiot, he has had more than enough time to go to trial and immunity hearings, and the places he has been looking are all irrelevant to say the least.”

        O’Mara works for $400 an hour. He has no reason to hurry. He wants to be a rich and famous idiot. I think he knows he has no case and is going to lose but in the meantime he going to drag it out for more money.

      • Jun says:

        How is Zimmerman supposed to pay him?

        Anyone with any logic knows that NBC has a face and reputation to save, which is worth $30 Billion, and they can beat Zimmerman and Omara in court, so there is no money for him.

        I do not know the situation with the donations but considering RZ JR went on national television and cant even get any followers for his twitter (when seen by millions), I will say and guess it is a flop.

        Conservative Tinfoil Hat? They are the least legitimate political and legal opinion website on the whole internet. I doubt they bring in any ad funds, so their donations would be low as hell.

        • Xena says:

          WOW! I returned home from running errands and have lots of catching up to do here. 🙂


          I do not know the situation with the donations but considering RZ JR went on national television and cant even get any followers for his twitter (when seen by millions), I will say and guess it is a flop.

          Just after GZ’s Hannity interview, MOM was on Piers Morgan. Morgan asked about donations from racists. MOM answered that he screened donations and if any were from racists, that he returned the money.

          Think about that for a moment? The feds must be looking into who is financially supporting GZ. MOM is unable to keep donations from people who make their racism known. That would be at least 99 percent of the Zidiots.

          Now, what is Junior’s and mamma Zim’s agenda? To voice their mantra “George is not a racist.” IMO, it’s not to convince NEW supporters but to get those whose money they cannot accept to stop posting racists comments on the internet. It’s also to disassociate themselves with known racists (witnesses) such as Frank Taaffe.

          Conservative Tinfoil Hat? They are the least legitimate political and legal opinion website on the whole internet. I doubt they bring in any ad funds, so their donations would be low as hell.

          True. Now that they might be facing a lawsuit for using a copyrighted pic of Trayvon, their problems have only just began. Chances are too that maybe — maybe, the Tinfoil Hat site has appealed to the Zimmermans to promote their mantra out of fear that they have been placed on the government’s watch list as a site allowing racial hate-speech. That’s a little too late, IMO.

      • Jun says:

        There may be a reason for all this “He is not a racist” mantra and I agree with yall. From the beginning there has been an agenda for everything from the Zimmerman team. I can see why Piers asked that “racist” donations question, as one look at the comments section of their facebook page and the Conservative Tinfoil Hat, it is very much hate and race based for the Zimmerman crowd of people. I also do not know why Zimmerman keeps trying to get his crowd to blame the media, when in fact, it is Zimmerman’s own actions and statements that gain him that title, as well as the statements and actions of his KKKlan.

        1) Papa Z stated that Zimmerman would target Asians if Asians were the perceived criminals in Zimmerman’s mind, like he did to Trayvon. By his own dad’s statement, he stated that Zimmerman will target a whole race of people based on his deluded perceptions of them. So whichever race or look Zimmerman decides is suspicious is fair game to him. It could be a white kid, Asian kid, Latino kid, etc. This is why people think he is racist.

        2) Zimmerman targeted and stalked a kid with a gun. The kid had candy and ice tea. He did not commit any crime. Zimmerman was heard on a phone call stalking and disparaging the kid, labelled him as black and criminal, and yelled what sounded like a racial slur before chasing and killing the kid. Add that to what Papa Z says and the dots get connected.

        and I can see Conservative Tinfoil Hat getting sued by Crump and others but the site is broke as hell so the most they would do is force a takedown of the site…

        • Xena says:

          @Jun. Good points, but the thing with taking the Doghouse down would violate their rights to freedom of speech. When they post hate-speech, they get listed on the government’s watch list. If anyone who posts there commits a crime, the connection will be made. There has already been enough posted there in comments to watch them for inflaming racial tensions and promoting violence.

          Have you noticed that not any of the Zimmermans have stated that they were raised to respect people of all colors and nationalities? I haven’t.

    • Jun says:

      Yeah, he is an idiot. Omara does not even state why good cause exists or why it is relevant or what his plans are.

    • Rachael says:

      Due process is one thing but this trahing Travon is, IMO, over the top. Maybe I’d feel differently if he wete here to defend himself, but IDK, maybe not, and either way, he isn’t so way over the top.

      • rachael says:

        AFAIC, they are still pursuing Trayvon and murdering him all over again and again. It is disgusting.

      • Malisha says:

        Yes, and this is an example of what happens when a person like George does wrong. Because he MUST cast himself as being “without blame,” he assigns the blame to his victim. He is a menace to society regardless of what ultimately is done about his crime. Even in prison he will psychologically “lead” a band of victim-blamers who will make him a martyr for a while. Of course, down the line, once his family and Shellie become burdens on their supporters and stop giving out cheap thrills, they will all find themselves abandoned.

        I wait for that day. Although it will not be pretty, there will be a certain poetic justice or just poetry in it.

      • Xena says:

        One thing that is very apparent is that O’Mara is attempting a flip-flop just like the Zidiots, which is to put Trayvon on trial for things he DIDN’T do the evening of 2/26/12 to imply that he was a bad kid going down the wrong road, making GZ justified in killing him.

        Justifiable homicide is not based on what the Zidiots are selling to MOM, and I do use the word “sell” because MOM is pimping them out to get their money. In doing so, he is throwing the case.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          The jury is going to hear some narrative from the prosecution, displayed in the evidence, and presentation of witnesses. None of what MOM and his supporter are doing or saying, is going to be admissible. Which is why I hope the trial is open, so they can see what gets excluded and why. All they’ve got is a collection of emotional rantings that cannot be supported or are not relevant/probative of the defense theor(y)(ies). The work he’s
          doing on Trayvon’s school records is a complete waste of his time.
          His work on DD’s history is a complete waste of time.
          His work on GZ’s SYG hearing is a complete waste of time.
          His work on GZ’s trial is a complete waste of time.
          All rendered worthless by GZ himself, with the assistance of his friends, family and MOM himself.

          MOM knows he has to avoid opening doors, such that his offerings will be thin to non-existent. Even as the prosecutor romps high, wide and handsome.

          • jm says:

            Lonnie Starr says: “The work he’s doing on Trayvon’s school records is a complete waste of his time. His work on DD’s history is a complete waste of time. His work on GZ’s SYG hearing is a complete waste of time. His work on GZ’s trial is a complete waste of time.”

            Isn’t that dishonest for someone who is making $400 an hour to waste time? Or is it MOM incompetence he doesn’t know it is a waste of time?

            Speaking of MOM, do you think he is behind the latest Zimmerman family media PR tour and what are they trying to accomplish?

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            @JM: He’s supposed to be in charge, but he knows that they all have websites asking for money. If he’s smart, he’s made them put on their web pages that the money is to support GZ, that way he can claim it. Otherwise they can pocket it. I think MOM is taking it day by day. He has a job to do, whether he likes it or not. He has got to get paid for it, or take a tax write off that he may be able to arrange to sell?

            In any event, he won’t be either the first or last attorney to have losing case to work. I understand that only about 1,500 or so a day is coming in, or about 3 hours 45 minutes pay for MOM. He’s just doing the best he can with what he has.

            Of course, they seem to be getting quieter and quieter as time goes on. I guess their real position is beginning to sink in as they talk around the dinner table. As the results of their efforts return ever poorer results, that’s got to be disheartening, even while the treehouse rants on. They go there for moral support, but the slim collections make it a very disheartening exercise.

  15. Xena says:

    Benjamin Crump released a statement of Trayvon’s parents’ response to O’Mara’s motion for Trayvon’s school records and social media.

  16. Malisha says:

    OK, so I listened to Gladys on Piers Morgan and here’s what I have to say:

    1. She stutters and she sounds like a person who can’t stand not being in control at all times.

    2. She did not have anything of value to say.

    3. She said she would not “touch” things meaning “no comment.”

    4. She repeated the stupid “Sherman Ware” lie that has already been disproved, that her son ran around to all the Black churches handing out fliers — which all the Black churches deny by the way. This in itself is quite racist. It shows that she believes that the Black churches could not, without George’s help, figure out that they had a stake in seeking justice for Sherman Ware. It’s like saying that they could not act without assistance from the great white hope, George. It’s not only false but idiotic!

    5. She says what hurt her the most was these false claims that George was racist. Bwahahahahahaha!

    6. She did have a sentence to say, when prompted three times, to the effect that she is very sorry for what happened that night. But she didn’t want to offer an apology, saying that George had already “made a statement.”

    No surprises, no information, utter b*llshit, very boring. She still carries on about poor Zimmermans who have been “forced from their homes” because of “death threats.”

    Nobody should kill them. Let them bore each other to death. 😮

    • Jun says:

      So typical propaganda again, eh?

      I thought she would flip out on air but whatever…

    • Xena says:


      OK, so I listened to Gladys on Piers Morgan and here’s what I have to say: 1. She stutters and she sounds like a person who can’t stand not being in control at all times.

      Most definitely, she “sounds like a person who can’t stand not being in control at all times.” Gladys reminds me of women who tell everyone in their household to shut-up to avoid talking out problems.

      2. She did not have anything of value to say. 3. She said she would not “touch” things meaning “no comment.” 4. She repeated the stupid “Sherman Ware” lie that has already been disproved, …

      When I first heard that, my first thought was that had GZ not wanted to criticize the SPD and try to get a foot-in to kiss up, it would have made him no difference about a homeless man being beaten up. I do see your position also about the great white hope. There is something buried deep in that — like, “I saved the whales so you can’t say I’m an animal abuser.”

    • Lynn says:

      Just watched Piers Morgan. My question is…Who goes on a talk show if you don’t want to talk? It seemed like she paused waiting for whomever was in her earpiece to tell her what to say. “Tell them you don’t want to say anything, tell them you don’t want to stir up things, blah, blah.” I’m sure the State won’t be adding this to the next document dump. Useless waste of 10 minutes. On an entertaining note…I laughed tremendously when I figured out she said “death threats”. I thought she said “debt trips”. hahaha

    • Rachael says:


    • Groans says:

      Personally, I am not watching any Z family interviews unless and until they appear on the Daily Show or Coblert Report. It’s a standards thing, I guess.

      • Jun says:

        LOL Jon Stewart or Colbert would throw hardballs at them, for laughs too… I dont think Omara will allow that LMAO

    • bettykath says:

      Two short clips are on Piers’ website. English is obviously her second language so some of her hesitation was probably due to making sure she was saying what she intended. Her answers in these clips seemed straightforward.

      She probably has no first hand knowledge of what George did or didn’t do relative to Sherman Ware but just repeated what she had been told.

    • She was in silhouette. And, I just finished saying yesterday that she was the only one left to get on the GZ freight train PR tour and here she is. I think she was ready to talk about her angelic child and Piers didn’t go there. As a result, she basically said nothing that has not been heard before. It is now on YouTube to view.

  17. rachael says:

    I understand that GZ waived his right to a speedy trial, I understand that due process with regard to GZ’s 14th amendment rights are at stake, and I do believe we all want him to have his day in court, but I am just wondering, is there a limit to how long they can keep this going? Can the judge say at some point, look, enough is enough, get your shit together by such and such a date, because you have had enough time?

    • Jun says:

      We will wait and see. Corey found all her evidence and was prepared in 20 or so days. Omara has had over 6 months and he has been going around the media circuit, gun rights conventions, and talks of suing NBC. From my perspective, Omara has had more than enough time and it is showtime, and many have said that Nelson keeps lawyers on their toes and they better have a good excuse, so we will find out if that is true, because over 6 months since indictment is plenty time to go to immunity hearing and trial, considering, Omara said the State’s case is weak in his claims at the bond hearing 2.

      • rachael says:

        Well in the scope of all things, this being a murder 2 trial and all the publicity, 6 months really is not all that long. I would expect at least a year. I’m just wondering if there are limits as to how much one can do to postpone.

      • Jun says:

        I personally do not know but to me, if you have time to try and plot to sue NBC, a $30 Billion company, who have powerful lawyers, you have time to do the trial and get it over and done with. If the guy who made STATEOFTHEINTERNET can read through the evidence, Omara can read through the evidence and prepare his defense. They are at the docket hearing phase and Omara has been trying the case at all bond hearings. The trial or immunity hearing wont be till next year anyways, so he has already had plenty of time. Omara needs to get his act together and do his job and get the show on the road. I am not a lawyer, but Jesus, without the delay being granted, Omara will have had a year!

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      I think what we’re waiting for now is the SP’s request to begin. There must be more investigating going on for the SP to not be ready yet. The FBI is working on the case and they’re probably trying to develop some promising leads they’ve found, they have more resources, so I’d guess the SP is letting them get their work done.

      • Jun says:

        The sooner the better. I do not mind patience but this must be really exhausting to Trayvon’s family to be put through this whole mess, and even Zimmerman’s family (although I think they are all trash) can move one, and Zimmerman goes to prison, thinks about what he did, and hopefully comes out a better person.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          MOM needs time for the sting of the bond hearing lies to die down. Time works against the defense in cases like this, since more charges can be discovered, more people may be caught working in concert. The FBI would be pretty interested in official misconduct, this case has it all. Meanwhile, GZ and crew are out hanging themselves in an effort to chase more money, a prosecutors wet dream for sure. Believe me, as time drags on by, more discoveries are going to be made. There are probably things that are already “hiding in plain sight” in the evidence dumps that haven’t been noticed yet, because not enough dots have been connected to make senses of them yet.

        • cielo62 says:

          I don’t know if Texas is slow, but it took two years to convict Raul Rodriguez guilty of murder although he also claimed SYG. Convicted in 2012 for a 2010 murder.

          • Xena says:

            don’t know if Texas is slow, but it took two years to convict Raul Rodriguez guilty of murder although he also claimed SYG. Convicted in 2012 for a 2010 murder.

            Orr killed in Oct. 2011, and his SYG hearing was held in March 2012 and denied. I’m not sure when Smithey killed her husband, but her SYG hearing was held and her petition denied last week.

            The problem that MOM has is that GZ has no evidence to support his use of deadly force. Forensic evidence is stacked against him. MOM said early on that it will take him at least 6 mths to “build” GZ’s defense. Since then, he continues to say that the State has not provided him with all discovery. The only basis that MOM has come up with to support GZ’s use of deadly force is that Trayvon purportedly broke his nose. That would cause pain, but not fear of death.

            IMO, ultimately MOM is simply waiting for donations to increase to pay his fees before GZ cops a plea deal.

  18. rachael says:

    Just saw this at the outhouse:

    Preston says:
    October 8, 2012 at 6:58 pm

    anyone in Orlando that can record wesh tv news tonight please do they are going to have a seg on “what’s in tm facebook and twitter that can help GZ”

    • shannoninmiami says:

      omg, trayvon’s facebook- to help GZ?? that is just the sickest thing i’ve ever heard. those people are … i don’t have words. it’s still just as shocking today as it was in the beginning.

    • Jun says:

      I will take a wild accurate guess and say there is nothing there that will prove Zimmerman acted in self defense but acted as a predator.

  19. Malisha says:

    Gladys did not really want to come out. I think O’Mara’s plan is to prolong this as much as possible and introduce as many side issues as possible to try, as a magician tries, to distract the eye so the hand can do its work. If we keep our eyes on the issue:
    Zimmerman profiled Martin;
    Zimmerman chased Martin down;
    Martin tried to escape and then tried to defend himself;
    Zimmerman killed Martin.

    Then the distractions become less important. Of course, every interview so far as yielded real information of one kind or another. I have high hopes for tonight’s installment.

    • rachael says:

      It makes no sense to me at all. O’Mara has been saying from the start to not jump to conclusions, wait until all the evidence has come out – which essentially to me means let’s not try this in the media, yet he has “allowed” every single person – including GZ himself, yappity yap, and each time, it does not good and, IMO, does more harm.

      All I can think of is perhaps he thinks if there is not one single person in the US who does not know about the case, therefore he can ask to have it dismissed on the basis that GZ can’t get a fair trial ANYWHERE. I can’t imagine that would happen, because he will still get as fair a trial as he can get, despite his family, friends, and even his own lawyer sabotaging him at every turn.

      Seems to me that while George is worried about “the dangers that lurk outside,” he has much more to fear inside.

    • Jun says:

      I had a guess that Omara was going to try what Ng the serial killer did, which is, prolong as long as possible, files as many frivolous motions as possible, have the defense lawyer appear incapable to prolong it even more or provide an appeal to say the defendant did not have a proper defense…


      You bring up a good point in that Omara will be making things up and sidetracking issues and going off on tangents (much like RZ Jr.) to try and defect the issue….


      I hear Nelson does not like her time wasted with crap and will call lawyers on it and Bernie seems quick to object and call out Omara, from observing him at the bond hearings, so I do not think Omara can get far as Bernie will be on his toes to pounce on any hearsay and leading from Omara…

  20. rayvenwolf says:

    Momma Z will be on Piers Tonight. This should prove interesting considering how silent she has been in all this.

    man I wish I had cable, oh well will just have to wait til its up on the cnn site.

    • jm says:

      Thanks for letting us know. Can’t wait to see Mom Z. I hope she has something to say besides the same RZ Jr BS and Piers doesn’t throw her softball questions. I want to know what she thinks about Mark Osterman’s claims she beat GZ. Was Osterman lying or did GZ lie to Osterman.

    • rachael says:

      I don’t have cable either. I wonder if I will be able to watch it somewhere online?

  21. Malisha says:

    Whether Zimmerman was beaten by his mother does actually have collaboration by George himself, in his FaceBook entries from 2005 when he was having an emotional meltdown (same year as the problems with his employer, same year as his restraining order by Veronica Zuazo, same year as his assault upon the ATF officers). He said that it was hard to leave his friends, and described his friends as being those people who were “just as afraid of your mamma as you are.” She was, by his report AND Osterman’s, a violent tyrant, at least TO HIM.

    This does not have implications for her behavior toward her other children, by the way. I know a woman who had two daughters, both of them very clever and essentially “good material.” One of them she imposed such a regime of “perfection expectation” that the woman grew up well educated (lawyer), well spoken, etc., but she was so severely obsessive-compulsive that she literally couldn’t live a normal life. Everything had to be perfect in her childhood. She could not get an A- much less a B+. Her homework was checked every night and if she so much as did less than 100% with extra effort, she was scorned and buried in verbal abuse. Meanwhile her younger sister was rebellious and refused to come up to standard, and was subjected to violent daily beatings by both parents to such an extent that she became coercive, dishonest, remorseless, manipulative, hateful, spiteful and intolerable. The older daughter, the perfectionist, was never beaten and was held up as a paragon of virtue. The younger one was physically tortured and was derogated and cursed. Same mom, same dad, same household. Also, the sibling rivalry between these two women lasted into late middle-age and never abated, and neither of them was ever able to escape the ramifications of their childhood torment by well-meaning parents!

    It can be the case that George and Robert Jr. were not treated the same way at all, and that there is a family pattern that is not readily apparent from the outside. I would say, however, that perhaps the most telling piece of information from their family is the incident described by the cousin who was molested, where her parents confront cousin George at a restaurant. He blew them off. What did he care that the cousin made charges against him if he could just walk away and not deal with the consequences of his actions OR WITH THE CONSEQUENCES OF A FALSE ALLEGATION AGAINST HIM? One of the strangest things about that story is the fact that George, if he was innocent, should have turned to his own parents, asked for back-up, and said he was upset beyond endurance by the fact that his beloved cousin would lie about him and try to destroy his relationship with his aunt and uncle. Think of that. He says, “Sorry” and walks out and never bothers to deal with the issue?

    That’s what he was hoping to do about the death of Trayvon Martin. And Lee and Wolfinger would have let him do just that were it not for Fulton, Martin, Jackson and Sharpton, and us.

  22. ed nelson says:

    Fred, would this the address to send contributions to via Paypal?

    Ed Nelson

  23. Malisha says:

    Ma’at. Should really be a greeting. Ma’at, says the first greeter. Ma’at, responds the other.


    1. In the NEN call, George sounds very much like he’s “on stage.”

    2. In the NEN call, George goes from “real suspicious” to “up to no good” to “asshole” to “punk” and he’s getting worked up.

    3. At the end of the NEN call, George wants the dispatcher to NOT be able to describe to the patrol car where they can find George; he wants to have them arrive and not know where to look, so they would have to call George upon arrival, rather than just finding him in a set location. So at the end of the NEN call, George wants to evade the police, as well as finish his own agenda. HE WANTS TO BRING IN HIS PREY ALL BY HIMSELF. Thus, he DOES remember that he has a loaded gun on him; otherwise, he would have wanted the police to show up and know exactly where to find him. That way, he could still take the credit for having caught a criminal, but he wouldn’t have to deal with a thug in the dark on his own.

    4. Since George knew that he had NOT TOLD the NEN dispatcher his location, when a witness says he will call 911, George would have known immediately that the arrival of the police won’t help him if he can’t get to his own cell phone, because he already (according to his own story) tried to reach for his cell phone to dial 911 when he was punched in the face and overcome. Thus, the witness’s offer to call 911 would have been the perfect solution to his sudden problem: YEAH, CALL THEM ‘CAUSE THEY DON’T KNOW WHERE I AM!!!

    5. Furthermore, since Trayvon was not yet dead and could still hear, when the witness offered to call 911, George had to realize that this criminal was about to flee and leave him alone, since the criminal would hear the witness’s offer to call 911 and would not want to stay around long enough to be arrested either for assault OR murder.

    6. Then we have the wriggling story. If you can wriggle, you can twist. If you can twist, you can throw off some guy who is seated on top of your belly. The whole “wriggling” story is obviously false. A person would not even be able to wriggle without accidentally throwing in enough torque to unseat the murderous assailant, unless of course the victim were an expert wriggler from years of practice. (You know, those contests where a person puts a big weight on their tummy and then wriggles around without knocking off the big weight.) Furthermore, the “he sat on me and smashed my head and beat me up violently and tried to kill me and made goon-like comments straight out of B Movie scripts while I wriggled” story is impossible for another reason. We are asked to believe that George Zimmerman couldn’t do a THING with his hands until the moment when he felt Trayvon’s hand go down his chest. He couldn’t scratch, punch, push, smash, slap, butt, twist, jerk, chop, twist, pinch, fling or even make little “shadow animals” to cause distraction and laughter, thus gaining control of the conflict; his hands do not come into play until he “remembers” that he is armed, and then miraculously “dr[aws his] weapon, aims and fires one shot.”

    From all this I can see a model of what George considers justice. He considers it justice for the authorities to assume that he’s innocent so long as he provides some kind of explanation for all or any of his behavior. Got out of the truck? Needed to find address. Walked somewhere other than back to truck? Wanted to meet up with police officer that I had called. Followed Trayvon? Went in the same direction. Wanted to prevent him from getting away? Saw him kinda skipping. Don’t have big injuries on head after smashing on cement? Wriggled. Didn’t get an x-ray for alleged broken nose? Health care is expensive. Don’t know the name of a street you walk on every day? Have ADHD. Keep telling whoppers? Mistrustful of the system.

    He can keep giving more and more bullshit answers no matter how obvious it is that they are just that. Telescope back in time, mamma is beating his butt for some real or imagined misbehavior. “It wasn’t me; I didn’t do it; you got me wrong; I’m the good guy; there’s an explanation.” I would bet that in the great majority of all the times George got beaten as a child, he really had not done anything egregious enough to have deserved serious punishment. I’ll bet he became quite [justifiably] addicted to hearing and agreeing to his own self-justifying rant that he would tell himself over and over again while his sore behind healed. I’ll bet he began to defensively believe anything he would tell himself to protect himself from the conclusion that he had deserved such mistreatment, because the truth is, no matter who little George was at that time, he did NOT deserve what is described as his mother’s punitive conduct; no child does. Are there kids who behave horribly? Yes indeed. Should they be dealt with? Absolutely. But you can’t deal with their misconduct by applying a thick layer of parental misconduct like a faked up butterfly bandaid the day after a murder.

    The violations of Ma’at in the Zimmerman household during the last 29 years have reverberated to a grand violation of Ma’at in our whole society at this point in time. How like a literary construction it is, but how awful that we can’t finish reading the book, put it away and tell ourselves, “Wow, glad that was just fiction.”

    • jm says:

      I have some questions about the validity of whether GZ was really beat by his mother. We have to take Osterman’s word for it right? Has anyone else ever said anything to verify Osterman’s story? I know RZ Jr is saying they had a wonderful childhood on his PR tour.

      I also think it is a culture thing as far as how a child is punished. I would not strike a child but I had neighbors who were from Mexico who did punish bad behavior by spanking or hitting their children. Since Mother Z is from Peru maybe spanking or hitting is acceptable form of punishment.

      As far as GZ’s behavior at a young age, I think he is a sociopath now. I wonder how early a person has signs and symptoms of being a sociopath and if his mother saw these abnormal behaviors but didn’t know what to do about it and it seems his father would be too proud to admit something was wrong so he ignored George’s behavior.

      I really don’t know. Just trying to look at all sides as far as when and where and why GZ went wrong.

      • Dave says:

        The only way that Osterman would know anything about GZ’s childhood would be from GZ himself, either directly from GZ or second or third hand through either Shellie Z or Mrs. O.

      • jm says:

        @Dave So who is lying? GZ about the beatings or RZ Jr who insists they had a perfect childhood and the Zimmerman’s were great parents. If GZ was beat by his mother, surely the older brother would be aware of it, right? This family is so twisted and dysfunctional. If Piers Morgan asks the right questions of Momma Z tonight during the interview about the allegations of her beating GZ, she has allude to the fact that one of her sons lying. Given the family pride, Momma Z will want to save her reputation rather than admit she beat a child who grew into a killer, so it will come down to her calling GZ a liar.

      • Dave says:

        What! Are you suggesting that Captain George would lie? Oh ye of little faith!

    • fauxmccoy says:

      wow, Malisha – i think you nailed it! if you were a gymnast, your hands and arms would be beautifully arched above your head and the judges would score you a 10!


    Here’s an idea:
    We can make a custom made bumper sticker to show our support for Justice For Trayon at
    You can order one @ $4.95 or the more you buy, the less you pay

    • Malisha says:

      Bonniespaper…, that’s a great idea. Also, we could send small cash donations to Mr. Crump with the request that they be passed along to the family to show our support in some small way, each dollar bill (or higher) bearing magic marker (light color like orange) legend: “Justice for Trayvon”

  25. Xena says:

    Professor, here’s a question for you. O’Mara now wants to subpoena DeeDee’s social media and telephone records. What are the rules for discovery regarding a witness? If MOM does that, can the State subpoena Taaffe’s, Osterman’s, and Oliver’s social media and phone records? Would they want to?

    • Malisha says:

      That’s just sophisticated witness intimidation. As in, “if you want to testify against my guy, your rights to free speech, privacy, and any other rights you thought you might have had at any time at all are all forfeit, so think about it.” 😈

      • Xena says:

        That’s just sophisticated witness intimidation.

        That’s a sick way to build a defense for a client charged with 2nd degree murder when he knew nothing about the victim other than his physical appearance. IMO, O’Mara is defending the wrong type of accused. He should be defending rapists of children. Then he can dig into the social media of children to prove they are sluts deserving to be raped and murdered.

        I wonder why he hasn’t subpoenaed Trayvon’s hospital records for when he was born. Maybe Trayvon spit up milk or peed before a diaper was put on him. O’Mara could use it to argue that Trayvon came into the world with a disrespect for adults.

    • Jun says:

      I dont think he will find anything nor do I think there is any relevancy. I personally hope Nelson shoots it down because it is truly a waste of court time and will not prove anything other than the random thoughts of a teenage girl.

  26. Malisha says:

    Oh Jun, I wanted to address something you said, about George’s mother beating him up on a daily basis. I actually don’t agree that she was “right” and she is the only family member who really sees what George is, and she was trying to straighten out the little psychopath before he did bad. In fact, although I’m no professional and I have no way of conducting studies in this field, it is my guess that beating a kid up often and seriously creates a psychopath who has a propensity toward violence and a feeling of special entitlement towards the law, leading him to believe he should be able to commit crimes and get away with it. If I were to “blame” family dysfunction for George’s present conduct or condition, I’d be more likely to zero in on a punitive and self-righteous mother beating him than on a collection of ineffectual dishonest pretenders, as the others appear to be. That’s just my take on it.

    • Xena says:

      @Malisha. IMO, there is something else within that family that might be, as they say, skeletons in the closet. Most children who are doing things they should not do have one of 2 responses, “Nothing” or “Playing.” An 8 yr old telling a 6 yr old to say “Just laying down” has heard that, or been told that, IMO.

      Childhood curiosity is one thing. Sexual lust in an 8 yr old is another.

      Also, when children are disciplined by fear and pain, they learn that controls them, and they grow up using the same things to control others. To wit, while most child abusers were abused when they were a child.

      • Malisha says:

        100%, Xena. I didn’t go there because it wasn’t out there in the “evidence” or in the discussion here yet. But George’s habits of just making up more non-credible nonsense each time a lie gets challenged, his arrogance in thinking people have to accept his distorted versions of reality, and his coercive attitudes, coupled with his “submissiveness displays” (yessir nossir and “nobody would question your authority”) just scream out to me: Scaredy-Cat Abused Child Perpetually Looking for a Dog to Kick.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          GZ is such a coward, but that’s not what makes me think this is some kind of group event. What makes me think that is, the way the story unfolds. It would seem that he’s gotten input on how to fashion a cover story, long before he killed TM. Look at his buddies and think about it, who would be stupid enough to go on tv, to explain an event they had not witnessed themselves? If they didn’t know what evidence was there, how could they know that any story they tried to tell, would not actually be incriminating?
          Thus, they look more and more, like people whose plans have gone awry and who are trying to amend them to make them workable again.

          Their level of “dedication” to GZ, seems to be saying “Don’t worry GZ we can fix this!” After all, the whole idea of using an NEN call as cover, is the incredibly stupid work of minds that work just like MO, FT, JO and GZ. Without the NEN call, no one would know anything more than what GZ had to tell about it. Instead he created an evidence trail that doesn’t match up with the evidence.

          Whose stupidity thought that NW could be used as a cover? After all, that’s what prompted the NEN call in the first place. Only to discover that oops, NW doesn’t allow him to do that thing. So he has to lie about getting an address, and lie about forgetting he was carrying a gun he always carries. After all, judging by where he wears his gun, he’d have fell right on it, it would be digging into his backside as he wriggled away from the concrete. Of course, without wet, grass stained pants, it’s hard to see any such wiggling taking place, even if his pristine jacket was seen covered with grass stains that miraculously disappear at the station.

          Oh yeah, I’ve found a video, which I’ve put in my collection [] that shows that even the blood trails on GZ’s head are suspicious. Anyone know when the bloody head pictures were first released? AFAIK the only ones of his bloody head, were taken by a civilian, and were not turned over to the police until several days later. Some, it seems, has found an exact matching set of blood trails, in the picture of another person.

          I remember how strange it was this picture suddenly turned up, after the police station pictures showed nothing. Only then did “enhanced” pictures at the station begin to show up with blood on the head. Funny thing though is that blood was supposedly cleaned up at the scene by paramedics. In which case you might want to go back and view the old enhanced station photos. It certainly wouldn’t do if they matched those taken at the scene, now would it?

      • Xena says:

        Here’s something else to consider. There is a report that GZ’s mom encouraged her children to marry “White” to give them an advantage in life. Out of her 3 children, George is the one who looks more Latino. His sister and Junior can pass for Italian. So GZ’s mom abuses him. He reminds her of what she is rather than who she married.

        Some years ago Montell Williams had a program about sibling rivalry in bi-racial children, and parents treating children differently. I saw a lot of that when working at the courthouse as well. It’s rooted in a parent’s own self-denigration.

      • shannoninmiami says:

        Ok, now, didn’t we already find out that GZ and robert jr are at the very least from another mother and NOT glayds? I think her sister? And personally i don’t see any paternal resemblance between GZ and robert sr. either. I’m very suspicious of that whole situation with the cousin and robert sr. alleged drunkenness and gambling issues. That and the different mothers… and then the estrangement from GZ for years until this happens.

    • Jun says:

      I can only guess as to why Zimmerman got his ass beat by his mom but I guess I was looking at it from a normal family perspective. Many kids from our generation get our asses beat when we do something wrong and not all of us turned into psychopaths. I am no psychiatrist but I can see it from your point of view that they could have bred and grown him into the monster he is. What is perhaps drawing the psych toward that direction, is, the allegations of sexual assault starting when Zimmerman was 8 until he was 18. It makes me wonder what skeletons happened in that family because normal people do not do all the things that Z have done.

  27. Malisha says:

    I watched YankeeMarshall’s stuff. The problem I see with his take on this is that he starts from the position of someone who loves his own gun so much that he’s identifying with the gun-bearer. He thinks George made “mistakes” and he criticizes him for those “mistakes” but he doesn’t see malice in what George did. That’s because he, personally, is not malicious and would not use his gun in a malicious way and I think he’s presuming George is just a guy who is essentially the same but not mature enough and not wise enough to have done right rather than wrong. So, giving George BOTH the benefit of the doubt that the law gives, and then the additional benefit of the doubt that a gun-owner-and-lover gives, he comes out with a different balance than the one that should apply. Perhaps if a “jury of George’s peers” would be legally required to be a “jury of gun-lovers who all treasure their concealed weapon carrying permit” then Marshall’s views would be just about right.

    What we have here is not someone who looks at the law as a structure that must protect us all, but someone who looks at the law as a structure that must protect people who have also gotten wedded to ideas about how they are entitled and supposed to protect themselves. These folks may be right that they need extra protection, and they may use that extra protection wisely and well (as Marshall probably does, given his comment that he will avoid all fights when he is carrying), but that doesn’t change their relationship to the rest of the world or to the law. George isn’t a guy who decided to profile, insult, follow, apprehend and dominate a guy he saw; he’s a guy who decided to profile, insult, follow-while-armed-with-a-deadly-weapon, apprehend-while-armed-with-a-deadly-weapon, and dominate-while-armed-with-a-deadly-weapon a guy he saw. That kicks it way WAY up from “mistake” to “murder,” in my opinion.

    Marshall doesn’t identify with Trayvon. Let’s just put Marshall into the position Trayvon was in that night, rather than into the position HE has put himself, that of the armed guy. Here comes Marshall walking home from the store, but, like, Trayvon, unarmed. He left his gun home. He sees a car following him. He cuts through. A creepy guy gets out of the car. Marshall doesn’t know if the creepy guy is armed, but he DOES know that HE is NOT ARMED. He is talking to his girlfriend and he mentions that the creepy guy is “here again.” Either he asks, “What are you following me for?” or he says, “What the Fuck’s your problem, homie?” or he omits “homie?” and just asks the question without the “homie” word. The answer he gets is either, “What are you doing around here?” or “I don’t have a problem.”

    What does he think?
    What does he do?
    When does he get killed?

    • jm says:

      I can’t relate to gun-lovers at all. Watched one of YankeeMarshall videos, not about GZ but rather fast and furious/political statement. He seems like a nice enough guy but I don’t get people who love to carry guns.

      I do have the luxury of not living, working or shopping in places where I feel the need to have a gun, but having said that, I can’t imagine killing anyone. I don’t know anyone who carries a gun among family, friends or neighbors.

      Not to offend anyone, but do most people who carry concealed weapons and love guns live or work in high crime areas?

      • fauxmccoy says:

        jm – i am a gun owner, i grew up with a variety of rifles and revolvers on a ranch in the wilds of far northern california (the part that no one knows exists). for me, it was just another tool – like an irrigation system or an electric fence – i mention those two because like fire arms, they can also be quite dangerous and i was taught an enormous respect for the potential harm.

        my father gave me a .38 when i became an adult, although i had been shooting for as long as i can remember (we had cattle to protect from stray dogs and coyotes and mountain lions were not unheard of, although i never encountered one).

        i do not carry although it is quite easy to get a permit in my county. as an adult, i have once had to load it, cock it and aim at someone breaking into my house, while i was pregnant and had a 2 year old in a crib. i had a 10 minute wait for the sheriff to show up and was greatful that the door lock held, because as much as i knew i would kill the man breaking into my home, i did not want to carry that burden the rest of my life and i knew for a fact that i’d be spending the night in the pokey – pregnant, flannel nightie and all.

        sane and stable gun owners do not support gz’s actions.

      • Xena says:

        Not to offend anyone, but do most people who carry concealed weapons and love guns live or work in high crime areas?

        Based on my experience, no. Some business owners might have a gun on the premises if they deal with money and the public. The truth about crime areas where crime is committed on the streets is that by the time a person is knocked down or approached to hand over their money, it’s too late to pull a gun.

        And that is why many with conceal carry talk about “self-defense” rather than protection from crime. Self-defense conveys having one-on-one contact in a fight — not protection from crime. Look at the SYG cases in Florida. Everyone involves harming or killing a person because of a fight or personal disagreement.

        Even in GZ’s case, he talks about a fight. He would like to incorporate fighting crime in the story, but the only crime being committed was his stalking a 17 yr old for walking in the rain alone.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Yep. People agree that people who live in remote areas, need to have a gun available, because any theory of timely LEO intervention simply fails. Of course, even so, possession of a weapon does not guarantee a successful defense. But, it does add to the feeling of security that is extremely necessary anywhere.

          So, that’s one extreme. Then there’s the other extreme, the urban areas. With dense populations and quick LEO response times, weapons aren’t so badly needed for personal security by all. LEO response times will fall even lower as the new computer technology allows for better location of the nearest available units. Because of these factors, where the theory of timely LEO intervention is much more likely, gun ownership is highly restricted to those who wish to have them (2nd Amend. possession) with mandatory training and the requisite legal use knowledge, as well as those, against whom “contrived engagements” are easily envisioned (those who own and/or carry valuables, either in the course of work or pleasure).

          Then there are the areas in between the extremes, since anyone anywhere, at almost anytime can become the target of a “contrived engagement”, it’s not easy to quantify or separate who needs, or should have a weapon available at what times, under what conditions and how much training etc., should be required.

          I get the feeling that 2nd Amendment rights are pushing for too lax gun laws everywhere, across the range of the extremes listed above and well into the areas in between, without looking at the data to find a way to service “reasonable needs”, apart from simple desires. Remember those western towns in the last century where people coming in were required to check their guns with the sheriff?
          That should be a good indication to both sides that some controls are needed, and that a more reasonable approach would be to have rules that work by area rather than attempt to simply apply blanket approaches.

          Right now the debate is simply an emotional tangle that is producing nothing but chaos. Legislators are trying to push laws that blanket, for every imaginable situation, rather than just pass reasonable laws and let the courts “dot the “i”s and cross the “t”s.
          In other words, regardless of SYG or SD, if there is a death or serious injury, there must be a thorough investigation, followed by judicial review. Neither prosecutors nor police should be making the call, about whether or not a shooting, that results in serious injury or death, should be judged acceptable.

          I’m pretty sure that if GZ and any fellow travelers (if any) would have shied away from actions that would likely lead to tragic incidents, if they realized they would still face judicial review. As it was, GZ had reason to hope that judicial review could be avoided under the SYG law. As we can see, he did succeed for a while, even without a story that could withstand a reasonable inquiry.

          Although his story attempts to make us believe, that he was not doing anything he wasn’t supposed to be doing. We see that he continued to do things he was not supposed to be doing, for reasons that did not “hold water”. He was not “impeded” by things that happened beyond his control. Nor was he merely confused in his explanations about what he was doing. His “mistakes” and “errors” are self serving stories that are not validated by the evidence. Hardly a wonder then, that people find his stories untruthful attempts to cover up either bad judgement or ill will.

    • Xena says:

      @Malisha. You must not have seen his third vid installment; “The Trayvon Martin Shooting: Self Defense & Free Speech.” It was filmed after the first discovery release. After going through that info, YankeeMarshal is of the opinion that GZ is “a loose cannon and needs to burn.” That is what I admire about him — an open-mindedness that looks at facts.

      • Malisha says:

        Oh I will check it out. I couldn’t locate it yet. Will report back.

      • Malisha says:

        Oh I wasn’t that impressed, but I see what you mean. He says even if George “gets off” for self-defense, that’s wrong, but that’s no reason to abridge the SYG law. He’s talking up the wrong tree. Physical evidence disproves George’s claim of self-defense. I also disagree with his illogical statement that if you still support free speech even though it is “misused” then you have to still support the SYG laws even if George “gets off.” The SYG laws are, essentially, both unnecessary (self-defense is already an affirmative defense to all charges involved) and vague enough to INVITE being misused to protect the powerful from the natural consequences of any crimes they might wish to commit.

        That said, he is more rational than most gun-totin’ self-righteous pontificators who use aggressive and law-enforcementy-sounding Internet Handles. And he’s smart, funny and kinda cute.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Here’s how SYG really will work: A wealthy guy shoots a not-so-wealthy guy and it will be SYG to the rescue. A poor guy shoots a someone just as poor as he is, SYG may get him off, but it probably won’t. Any individual with good connections will get off using SYG, people without connections probably won’t.

          If you are an innocent black or even a white person, who happens to have enemies of sufficient caliber, SYG invites those enemies to take a shot at a SYG defense. The easiest way to use SYG, is to combine it with an “accidental” shooting. If the law works well as a defense, believe me, people who have a reason to kill someone, are going to make arrangements to use it. Like, for instance, people who learn they face being written out of wills. It’s very easy to mistake a house guest for an intruder. SYG makes it even easier to get away with the crime.

  28. Xena says:

    Please take a deep breath before watching. Justice for Trayvon!

    • jm says:

      Thank you.

      Zimmerman and his supporters, friends and family become more repulsive as I watch videos like this. I can only hope Team Zimmerman watch videos like this. I doubt it will make any difference in a sociopath like ZImmerman, but perhaps his family and friends may see a different perspective, stop the begging for racist money, continuing the obvious G lies and see the murdering lying monster GZ for what he is.

      • Xena says:

        @JM. I agree that it won’t make a difference to GZ. He doesn’t know anything beyond his lies. He has too much ego and fear to admit to the truth. Based on his NEN call, GZ unzipped and completely exposed himself, but his supporters simply agree that the Emperor has new clothes. They already argue that GZ will be convicted as some sort of conspiracy to avoid a race riot.

        GZ shall be convicted because he is guilty. It’s God’s plan that George M. Zimmerman spends the rest of his life behind bars.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        I’ve collected a few more of the most interesting videos I’m finding on youtube. One video that states GZ may have had assistance, sure does point out that there some very suspicious noises in the background. There was, however, only one statement made in the background, that I could clearly hear. So as not to “poison the well” I’ll leave to others to confirm what I think I heard. I don’t believe anyone will have trouble hearing it, if I was able to hear it at all.

        • Xena says:

          I don’t believe anyone will have trouble hearing it, if I was able to hear it at all.

          Was it, “He ran that way”?? I am totally convinced that ShelLIE was in the truck with GZ. However, I do not believe that anyone was with GZ when he got out of that truck. GZ is solely responsible for killing Trayvon. Even if someone called to alert him of Trayvon entering that community, or was in the truck with him, now one twisted his arm to make him stalk, chase, and kill a 17 yr old, unarmed, 11th grader.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            No, that’s not it. It’s one of the background sounds the author is pointing to. Most of the ones he’s pointing out, I cannot hear. But this one I do hear, clearly and unmistakeably. So, if it’s true, I’d have to say that there is someone with him, unless I’m hearing things. But, as I say, there is one statement voiced in the background, that is not GZ’s voice, and that I can hear clearly.

            Don’t try to guess what it is, just listen to the video, keep your cursor on the pause button and read what sounds the author is pointing out. One of his “point outs” is unmistakeably clear. At least to my poor hearing.

    • shannoninmiami says:

      THANK YOU! this is exactly what i have been needing to see, white men taking a real stand against this SOB, DECLARING to to zimmerman and the zimmermans of this world that it IS NOT JUST BLACK PEOPLE it is ALL PEOPLE who DEMAND JUSTICE for Trayvon Martin *OUR BEAUTIFUL SON*!!!!!

      thank you Xena, i can rest a little better tonight.

      • Xena says:

        @shannoninmiami. You mean, Professor Leatherman isn’t White? LOL!!! Just kidding. There are people of all races who see that something is deeply wrong in GZ’s decisions and actions on 2/26/12.

        Snooze away my dear friend. In between receiving email alerts for comments posted here, I’m plugging away to find a case decision on whether settlement for damages in a 29 U.S.C. Sec. 1132 complaint are excluded from income taxes. (Geez. Wiping brow and SMH.) I’ll be up for awhile because a petition MUST be filed by Tuesday. (Putting on another pot of coffee.)

        • Not sure what kind of lawsuit you are referring to but compensatory damages are not considered to be income because they compensate the injured party by restoring them to where they were before the injury. Punitive damages are taxable, I believe.

          Hope this helps. Good luck.

      • Jun says:

        I honestly do not know why people are supporting Zimmerman

        This guy randomly and habitually targets people and victimizes them with either harassment, violence, or manipulation…

        How do they know if Zimmerman wont decide that one of them is suspicious without proof and in need of confronting and killing?

        It is not even isolated incidents, this guy has a long history of it…

        This is a guy by even his fabricated story is depraved… he told police he shot a kid in the heart and then tried to detain a dying person… that is fairly depraved and sick… I do not know any moral person who would let alone shoot someone then on top pin them facedown and keep trying to detain a dying person until they stopped struggling and ask people to help him with their kill

      • Xena says:

        @shannoninmiami. BTW, check out The YankeeSheriff on Youtube. His vids are long so I don’t want to embed them here.

      • Rachael says:

        I’m not black. Trayvon speaks to me as a mom, and I hope as a human being.

      • Xena says:


        Not sure what kind of lawsuit you are referring to but compensatory damages are not considered to be income because they compensate the injured party by restoring them to where they were before the injury. Punitive damages are taxable, I believe.

        Hope this helps. Good luck.

        THANK YOU! Yes, punitive damages are taxable. It’s almost 5 a.m. and I finally found a case on point for IRC Sec. 104(a)(2) defining compensatory damages as “physical injury.” The company settled. The lawyer advised his client that the settlement was excluded from income because she had damages. The IRS says otherwise. The client has independently worked on this in effort to resolve with the IRS. For her efforts, she received a Notice of Deficiency. The lawyer has to file a petition with the Tax Court. .

        And of course, I get the last minute stuff because being retired, I can drink coffee all night and research. LOL.

      • shannoninmiami says:

        Xena, you woulda thought i was Michael Jordan the way i was ballin’ after that video you posted last night! ( crying=balling, get it? LOL i just made that up LOL)

        And yes, i know there are plenty of whites supporting Trayvon; Trent and Professor Leatherman etc.. But what has been bothering me for awhile is that i don’t see ENOUGH anger and outrage from them,, ( besides Trent and Professor Leatherman of course! LOL )
        I know this sounds stupid and immature, but i’d really like to see some big ol muscular, mean looking, biker-ish, ex-con type white guys and/or some super important, wealthy, respectable, successful but tough-guy types, guys that zimmerman would likely be envious of or admire or think they would’ve been on his side. IDK maybe someone like an important big-shot in the military or some heavy high profile celebrity or politician type, to come out and call zimmerman out, but with the real facts and class! But also get down and dirty too, maybe call him a punk bitch, and embarrass him and his whole family! Do you know what i mean? cas i think he and the zimmerlovers all think the only reason why all the famous black guys that have stood up for Tray only do it cas Tray was black, and so he still disrespects them..I want zimmerman and co to feel like outcasts, losers in every segment of society. And i want the whole family to crawl under a rock too.

        This has been one of my little pet projects ever since some of the zimmerlovers made comments to me and other FOT (friends of Trayvon) about how they just ‘knew’ we were all black, or else we wouldn’t be posting support for Trayvon. So now i’m detemined to make sure they know that whites are just as supportive of Tray and his family as blacks..and there is NO racial divide like they like to say!

        BTW @Professor Leatheman < please, by no means am i saying you and Trent are not tough and rough, muscular, angry, aggressive white guys! LOLOLO 🙂

        • Xena says:

          @Shannoninmiami. It’s okay to make-up new words. 🙂
          Don’t leave LLMPapa out of those we know who are a friends of Trayvon. There are many more. Words expressing hearts are more important than the color of skin. If anyone, regardless of skin color, behaved like the Zidiots, it would be the same as returning evil for evil. No one should have to reduce themselves to the Zidiot’s level in order to get a point across.

          Let the Zidiots continue sending their negative energy out on behalf of GZ. Let Friends of Trayvon continue sending positive energy out on behalf of justice for Trayvon, and support of his family and friends.

          In the end, good always overcome evil. Keep hanging in there. Did you see this LLMPapa vid?

        • fauxmccoy says:

          shannon – i would happily volunteer my brothers. not ex cons, but the smallest one is 6’2″ and bench presses close to 400 pounds and is a well known mechnic in the bay area, the other is 6’3″ and ranked sharpshooter in the army. they are total teddy bears to loved ones, polite and funny with friends …. but, you do not ever want to piss either of them off (and they will both tell anyone that i’m the most aggressive of the three of us). how’s that?

      • shannoninmiami says:

        fauxmccoy says:

        October 8, 2012 at 9:20 pm

        shannon – i would happily volunteer my brothers. not ex cons, but the smallest one is 6’2″ and bench presses close to 400 pounds and is a well known mechnic in the bay area, the other is 6’3″ and ranked sharpshooter in the army. they are total teddy bears to loved ones, polite and funny with friends …. but, you do not ever want to piss either of them off (and they will both tell anyone that i’m the most aggressive of the three of us).

        LOL Thanks fauxmccoy, it’s very kind of you to hand over your brothers so eagerly! but i’m worried i might keep them all to myself after reading their stunning discriptions, they both sound beautiful!
        But just in case, did you mean tampa bay area?? LOL

        • fauxmccoy says:

          so sorry shannon 😦 they are in california with me, but we do get back to georgia every few years to visit with family … maybe we can arrange something? 😉

    • A video with so much passion and impact, one must stand up and take notice.

      • Xena says:

        A video with so much passion and impact, one must stand up and take notice.

        Justin Reilly is a poet IIRC, out of Atlanta, GA. His vids are mainly on social issues. I have watched that vid about a hundred times — never tire of it.

        The YankeeSheriff whose vids on GZ I recommend is from West Virginia and he supports gun rights. His take on GZ is very practical and balanced. YankeeSheriff addresses some of the knee jerk arguments of the Zimbots.

      • Xena says:

        Ooops. I made a mistake. It’s not the YankeeSheriff. It’s the YankeeMarshall. Sorry.

      • rachael says:

        Xena –

        I just checked out YankeeMarshall – I love him!

      • Xena says:


        Xena –
        I just checked out YankeeMarshall – I love him!

        He’s practical, logical. YankeeMarshall demonstrates the thinking of a responsible gun owner. I applaud him for dedicating 2 vids to this case.

    • jm says:

      Brilliant. Thanks for posting.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      delightful xena, thanks for posting. delicious irony there in the musical choice, was a favorite from my childhood, it took me many years to realize it was the dreams of a prisoner.

    • Jun says:

      LMAO I wonder what idiotic excuses Zimmerman and clan will say…

    • rachael says:

      Hmmmm. Thanks.

    • bettykath says:

      I hate to throw a wet blanket on this but poly jackets don’t stay wet for long nor do they hold things like grass. I’ve got a poly rain jacket that needs a good shake and it’s dry. Good video though. Love Elvis. He reminds me of the good ole days.

      • Jun says:

        I dont know what type of jacket Z has but he claimed to be shimmying on the grass, so there should be grass smear stains and there is none. It looks like one of those snowboarding jackets. They could always buy the same brand and type of jacket Z had on, and then shimmy around on grass and do a science test.

      • Xena says:


        I hate to throw a wet blanket on this but poly jackets don’t stay wet for long nor do they hold things like grass.

        Then maybe the police should have photographed what he saw in order to support his statement. That’s one thing that bothers me; i.e., the cops didn’t seem to bother to take any pics of GZ at the crime scene. Neither did the EMTs.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Yeah, right… Trained investigators arrive at a crime scene and they aren’t prepared to take any pictures, but a untrained witness, surprised by a chaotic unfolding of events, has the presence of mind to be sure to get photos???? Who is kidding whom?

          Yeah, it makes really good sense that GZ didn’t know that he had hit TM with his bullet. After firing off some 400 rounds per session with a trained LEO MO, GZ still doesn’t know which way bullets go, or how to aim and fire his gun?

          Both GZ and the police have made statements it would take a “babe in arms” to believe. They’re just silly statements being given out, as if the public needs “proper training” to know that elephants can’t really fly.

          • Xena says:

            @Lonnie Starr.

            Yeah, right… Trained investigators arrive at a crime scene and they aren’t prepared to take any pictures, but a untrained witness, surprised by a chaotic unfolding of events, has the presence of mind to be sure to get photos???? Who is kidding whom?

            Absolutely. Since GZ was already claiming self-defense, the cops should have taken pics of him and there should have been no option of going to the hospital. The way it ended up, they took his word. Then, they told witness what they heard and saw. But Tracy Martin (God bless his heart) heard their tale of “George Zimmerman says” and knew it could not be true.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Exactly, then I found this video on Youtube: Which seems to show that the blood trails on GZ head were faked with photoshop. What they appear to have done is, they discovered a picture with blood trails that exactly match the ones in the photo taken by the witness at the scene, in another photo of a man with tatoo’s. Of course, it could be that they photoshoped GZ’s blood trails onto someone else’s head?

            Well, the more people who know about this, the more people who know what to look for, and/or who know what the original photo looked like or where it can be found. So I that’s why I put it up.

          • Xena says:

            What they appear to have done is, they discovered a picture with blood trails that exactly match the ones in the photo taken by the witness at the scene, in another photo of a man with tatoo’s.

            I saw that vid some while ago. I had always questioned not only the blood trails, but the method in which the pic was taken. This is what I mean. There were cases that I assisted with where the cops ALWAYS photograph the face of the person FIRST to establish that subsequent pics are of that person. There are lawyers who have objected to the entry of pics into evidence on the basis that there is no photo establishing it is the subject person. The court agreed

            In his statements, GZ says nothing about a resident taking the photograph. He does say that Smith immediately placed him in handcuffs and put him in the back of the police car. Something is very off with his sequence of events if he had time to have photos taken of his head before Smith arrived.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Worse yet, if I recall, these pictures weren’t turned over, until sometime after the big stink arose about GZ having no blood in the station arrival photos. I believe that the witness who took the pictures, tried to explain the delay in turning over the pictures, by saying he simply forgot.

            Then the media enhanced the head in the garage and there are the faint traces of the same blood trails, with the faintness explained by having been cleaned up by medics at the scene.

            The key to this puzzle is to discover the source of the claimed original photo of the tatooed guy why they say had these blood trails first. So, keep all eyes peeled.

      • Xena says:

        Just an afterthought, Bettykath. George said that he wiggled, shimmied to get his head off the sidewalk onto the grass. That in fact, according to him, he shimmied enough for his jacket to raise up. That should have left some debris on his pants and shirt, but no debris was found by the lab.

        In the Orr case, the State argued at the immunity hearing that there was no sufficient amount of debris found on Orr’s clothing to substantiate that he was pinned down.

        I suppose that MOM is just going to have to find an expert witness to testify that GZ’s jacket doesn’t hold debris — neither his shirt — neither his jeans — neither his right boot.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          That expert is going to have to explain how “grass stains” can be simply shaken off garments, and how one can shimmy on wet grass without getting their pants wet and grass stained as well.

          I could see debris being shaken off the jacket, but the stains should not fall off. But hey, I lack proper training to know that. lol

          • jm says:

            Lonnie says: “How one can shimmy on wet grass without getting their pants wet and grass stained as well.”

            You make a great point. Even if perhaps the polyester jacket dries quickly and may not have grass stain, what about the denim jeans? Is there evidence that the jeans were wet or stained? Also if his jacket slid up allegedly exposing the gun, what about the shirt under the jacket? Grass stained or wet? Any documentation by police?

          • Xena says:

            @Lonnie Starr:

            I could see debris being shaken off the jacket, but the stains should not fall off. But hey, I lack proper training to know that. lol

            Some of it is plain common sense. The way GZ described his wiggle and shimmy that caused his jacket to raise up, his pants should have twisted too. He should have had huge grass stains on his butt.

      • Jun says:

        Actually that is false, polyester can be stained and grass can stain it. If Zimmerman was shimmy and sliding around mud and grass, it can stain a polyester jacket

  29. MichelleO says:

    MA’AT. In this scenario, we the public, are the justice seekers in Trayvon Martin’s behalf. The man in the story was robbed of his possessions, justice under the law, and his dignity. He was beaten until unconscious; but lived to petition on his own behalf. Trayvon was not so lucky. He was robbed of his youth and his life. We live on to petition for justice in his behalf.

  30. justchill says:

    thank you for this post. i am a middle aged woman who does not live any where near florida but i would march to the ends of the earth to see justice for trayvon martin. my grown children cannot understand why i have become so enthralled with this case and why i spend so much time on the internet following it. i will now be able to explain it to them by emailing them a copy of your post. again, thank you.

    justice for trayvon martin.

  31. bettykath says:

    Have you seen this? GZ posting an email from O’Mara at Conservative Treehouse.

    Just a few days later, on July 2nd, O’Mara apparently responded, even asking for a “meet-up.” GZ posted the email said to be from O’Mara on a discussion board at the Conservative Treehouse, along with a note asking an editor named “Sundance” to ” please contact him regarding a chat where we could directly ask him questions, as he suggests?”

    From: Mark M. O’Mara
    Subject: RE: Disappointed!
    Date: Monday, July 2, 2012, 9:03 AM

    I sincerely appreciate the criticism… there are many more nuances to consider regarding the presentation, and I will respond in more detail… I truly appreciate all the great work done by everyone over there so far, and really take ur comments to heart… rest assured the presentation was metered for very specific purposes, as this is a long-game approach the bull dog mentality would be premature…. goal for today is to get him out, that’s all…… I will respond better shortly….

    Pls pass on, and I would like to c if we could set up a chat session so I could respond directly to q’s.. just need to maintain a level of security over the communications…

    M Mark M. O’Mara
    O’Mara Law Group
    1416 East Concord Street
    Orlando, Florida 32803

    • Xena says:

      That would not surprise me. I don’t doubt it. O’Mara has played to and for financial supporters from the beginning. The scheme appears to be attack the victim, his parents, attorneys, memorize mantras and promote misrepresentations. Although Snopes provides info on the fake media and mistaken identity, the doghouse folks continue to promote it as being Trayvon.

      My blog received nasty-gram comments that if I knew the “truth” about theJBMission, that I would stop commenting on that blog and if I didn’t, my reputation would be ruined.

      Subsequently, I received another nasty-gram comment purportedly outing “BigBoi.” The person who posts on the doghouse as Jordan with some numbers, and other handles, wanted me to see her attack on BigBoi as a warning that she would attack me in the same way unless I took my blog down and stopped discussing discovery and evidence against GZ.

      It’s really a childish bully tactic along the lines of “I’ll lie about you like I lie about Leatherman, JBMission, and BigBoi if you play with them.” You see, the doghouse folks don’t want discovery and evidence against GZ to be discussed.

      That Jordan person actually trolls to locate where we post and identify others agreeing and if there are means of contacting them through comments or email so she can further her bullying in effort to divide and conquer. She reminds me of the character played by Winona Ryder in the movie, “The Crucible.”

      Ultimately, O’Mara is pimping the outhouse folks. If no discovery was ever released to the public, it would be the same and that is what matters at the immunity hearing and trial.

      • Jun says:

        I agree that he is. Omara thought defending Zimmerman would be a cash cow win or lose and it turned out to backfire in his face LMAO. The Treefrog was talking smack about him for a while so Omara may have bent over for them for some money as I seen him pull some of the crap his cult supporters have been saying on his facebook page, facebook, and on the Conservative Tinfoil Hat

    • MichelleO says:

      I VISITED that hothouse of horrors. The lies they continue to spread. The doctored photos and facebook screen shots that everybody knows by now are not Trayvon or his words, can be still be found there. The people there salivate over these doctored photos and words, and congratulate themselves when they come up with even bigger and better lies.

      • Xena says:

        @MichelleO. With some of them communicating with O’Mara, we can see what GZ’s defense is — “I killed him because he was a Black thug.” Way to go treehouse!!! Maybe the feds will reserve a needle for GZ now that you confirm your belief that he killed a worthless Black thug for just walking home in the rain.

      • Jun says:

        “the black thug” defense is not even true but even if Trayvon was a thugged out crazy black gangster who only weighed 100 pounds… Zimmerman would still have to prove that he was in a position where he had to defend himself and that it was self defense LMAO

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Here’s one:

          Says that GZ had help who can be heard in the background of the NEN call. There sure are a lot of strange background noises on the NEN. I could not confirm all of what this video guy was finding, but one voice in the background seems pretty clear.

          • Xena says:

            @Lonnie Starr. IMO, most of what that person claims to hear are actually the windshield wipers. I do still wonder about the sound of cocking the gun. IIRC, it’s whonoze who says that’s the sound of a battery in the flashlight. IDK, but I seriously doubt that GZ did not prepare to have his gun ready to fire. He was on a mission.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            I’ve listened to many videos that attempt to analyze the sounds in the background of the NEN, this is the first time I can confirm that I actually hear another voice saying what the video author says it is saying.

            It would be the first confirmation that GZ had someone “assisting” him on his hunt.

  32. Malisha says:

    Wow, I looked at the Conservative Outhouse today and I gotta say, if a psychiatrist were to zero in on most of the comments there, he would probably find: paranoid frames of reference; delusions of adequacy; massive projection; disorders of emotions; thought disorders; and a partridge in a pear tree. For some reason I thought I would find a bit of information there that I was looking for (real info. on Robert Zimmerman Jr.’s profession, education and employment) but the stuff I read had me laughing so hard I couldn’t continue the search. They claim that anybody thinking their guy did wrong is engaged in “institutional racism” and that when their guy is acquitted (they’re even imagining a SYG dismissal!) we will continue to “whine” rather than to accept the obvious conclusion that we were all wrong. It was not hard for me to understand what happened in Munich in 1933 after I read a bit over there today — saturation point reached in about five minutes. I believe a few people (probably fewer than half a dozen) are full time Outhousers. I wonder if they’re trust fund babies or insomniacs.

    • Xena says:

      I wonder if they’re trust fund babies or insomniacs.

      Try the unemployed collecting unemployment benefits, blaming affirmative action for their unemployment because it took away their entitlement to get the job the want without competing with other qualified applicants.

      Or, those collecting SSI who think that denigrating strangers from a computer is a game.

    • Jun says:

      LMAO I call that place Conservative Treefrog or Conservative Tinfoil hat. All their followers are just as stupid. The bottom line is they have no proof to back up anything they say…

      Zimmerman was himself giving away info of him stalking a kid, he is heard chasing the kid, there are screams of a kid heard on a 911 call, and Zimmerman kills a kid. I think there is more than a reasonable suspicion and probable cause that a murder took place or at least manslaughter, based on those facts alone.

      “injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere…”

      I do not feel Zimmerman will get SYG immunity as even Jeb Bush who wrote the statute even states that it does not apply to Zimmerman, and he is a politician who has read over the facts of the case to know. It is not whining, a kid got terrorized and killed, and you have got to be really screwed up in the head if they think that is self defense. My personal belief is that Corey can prove every single point of the SYG statute does not support Zimmerman.

      • Rachael says:

        I call it the nut tree outhouse, just outhouse for short. Buncha sewage there.

      • Jun says:

        They use the same type of tactics that the KKK or Neo-Nazi parties use, which is propoganda, slander, lies, and threats to gain followers. However, if the followers would actually do research, they would find they were misled but I do feel their hate is very ingrained inside of them so to change them would be difficult

      • rayvenwolf says:

        Considering the two most recently publicized SYG cases both failed to gain immunity AND had far more compelling defendants, GZ’s goose is cooked.

        And as far as the shytehouse crowd goes – GZ getting convicted with fry their little brains and there will be post after post about how he needs to appeal and how O’money messed up etc etc. In no way shape or form will they ever believe GZ is in the wrong. The man could confess and they would claim it was a false and coerced.

        • jm says:

          rayvenwolf says: “In no way shape or form will they ever believe GZ is in the wrong. The man could confess and they would claim it was a false and coerced.”

          See that is what I don’t get. What is this Manson-type quality GZ has over his followers. He actually looks mentally unbalanced to me and when he opens his mouth he proves he is mentally unbalanced.

          • Xena says:


            See that is what I don’t get. What is this Manson-type quality GZ has over his followers.

            Ahhh, JM. Remember that Manson’s crimes were an effort to start a race war. It’s the same with the Zidiots. Haven’t you read their one-liner drive-bys such as “Let the race war begin.” “Lock and load.” “There’ll be riots when George is set free.”

      • Jun says:

        Zimmerman does look mentally unbalanced to me too. He looks slightly mentally handicapped to me too. I have a theory he may be inbred.

  33. Malisha says:

    BettyKath, you observe, “Wow. Such hatred here. Absolutely no compassion for some very sick (imo) people.”

    I understand what you’re saying. I think what you’re observing is the rage people feel when they see Trayvon take some more hits, after he is already dead, from George’s family. It is truly infuriating for the Zimmermans and their team to keep bashing a dead victim of their favored son’s unimaginable personal malice. Victim-blaming is one of the most efficient and disgusting tools abusers use. Those of us who still feel compassion and horror at the fading sounds of Trayvon’s last terrorized vocalization suffer a sort of PTSD when we hear someone like Robert Zimmerman Jr. falsely accuse this innocent kid of being a felonious and vicious unprovoked assailant/thug. It comes off sounding like hatred, but I would just as soon identify it as verbal-ized echoes of the scream itself, saying, as was Trayvon, “Noooooooooo!”

    Remember the guy who shot up a movie theater in Colorado recently? His family said very little, only, sorry, and they were, and you could tell. Zimmerman’s family comes out swinging. His father came out initially carrying on about his son’s nose. NOSE? His mother testified that the ALF guys who were assaulted by her son in 2005 had not identified themselves to George, therefore casting blame on those officers to exonerate her son. These are not normal responses to finding out that your kid killed someone. Yes, the family is trying to help their son/brother, and yes, they have very little to work with, but remember, they are still responsible to behave decently and in a dignified manner, and not to make groundless accusations against the victim of their son’s deed, which they have had to admit. Remember Robert Senior saying, “and then George took his gun out and did…what he did.” Yeah, he did…what he did.

    The rage would have died down long ago, in my opinion, and all there would be left now was waiting for justice, if the Zimmermans were not deliberately assaulting the character of their son’s victim, post mortem. Let them lay off comments about Trayvon. Let them say, “We love our son/brother and we urge everyone to wait for the ultimate outcome of this and to not hurl invective and hatred at him while the court does its work. We want to defend our son/brother and ask for your help in paying for a good defense for him; it is the American way.” I wouldn’t have an angry or hostile bone in my body for them if that was what we were hearing. And when Robert Junior was asked, “Can’t you see how that conduct makes people think it was racist and unfair?” I would have loved to hear him say, “I do see how that would make people come to that conclusion. All I can say is that I have known my brother all our lives and I don’t think he had evil motives and I hope that will come out in the end, so I ask people to suspend judgment until the conclusion of the legal process.”

    Perhaps the best defense is a good offense. But it is, at this point, pretty damned offensive.

    • jm says:

      Malisha says: “They are still responsible to behave decently and in a dignified manner, and not to make groundless accusations against the victim of their son’s deed.”

      Speaking of dignified, I have never heard the Martin family who are true victims, malign George Zimmerman or call him names.

      You are correct about the screams on the 911 call. I heard the screams of anguish and they haunt me so when I see Robert Jr publicly justify his brother shooting and killing Trayvon and claim the screams are of his armed brother, I am outraged at the brazen lie. How can any of Zimmerman’s family study the evidence, know Trayvon has no history of violence, and stick to the story that GZ gave them, especially since they know he is a liar about the Paypal money and how far he will go to further his lies, including have his wife perjure herself.

      The other thing that is outrageous is that the parents set up a website to beg for money, as if they are victims. Sorry I have no compassion for a family that stoops to maligning the dead teen, hoping to make money from his death.

    • bettykath says:

      Malisha, “Perhaps the best defense is a good offense. But it is, at this point, pretty damned offensive.”

      I agree.

  34. Malisha says:

    I have a new ending for the Emo Phillips story of the man on the bridge. Read through to just before the end, and then:

    I said, “Me too! Are you reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1879, or reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915?” He said, “Reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915!” I said, “You have the biggest reason to live that there ever was: Try to convert me, bring me home to the Lord before it’s too late!”

    One time the Mormons came to my door when I was in Charlottesville at my son’s house. I was the only one home. I had greeted plenty of Mormons and Jehovah’s witnesses in the past and simply said I was not interested in talking about conversion when this time, something came over me. I said to them, “Oh I have best friends who are Mormons who live in [name omitted] Stake so I know about the religion, [they were very glad to hear that] but I have a question. You do believe that it will be a good idea to bring your faith to everyone in the world, right?” They agreed heartily. I said, “Well we’re Jews. We have a firm belief that there should always be some Jews in the world. So we can’t go there.” They were both very surprised (never apparently heard that before) and had no answer for that idea, so we parted politely. And then I thought about what I had said. Jews are here and Hittites are not. We DO believe that there should always be some Jews in the world. We DO NOT believe that non-Jews should become Jews — of course, if any want to do so they’re allowed but it is not a “program” for us to get them to want to. So I thought about the god thing and saw it as compared to the membership-in-religion thing. If we want to be Jews, the god thing really doesn’t matter. Now if George Zimmerman could come to the belief that he can keep being whoever he is and leave others alone to be whatever they are, he could recuperate a certain ability to live out his life as well as possible. Of course, he’d have to admit what he IS so he would have a “whoever he is” baseline to start with. Fat chance, as we say. But think of it. “I’m someone who got so bossy and intolerable that I lost jobs, had very few friends, and messed up a lot of my own opportunities for success, but I’m still a child of god and I can still make it right because I believe in forgiveness. So I’ll own up to my mistakes and take my punishment and improve.” WOW. That way he wouldn’t have to keep whipping up all that nasty slander against a dead kid who never harmed him. And if he does really believe in Heaven and Hell he’d have a better chance of going where he chooses when his number is up, too. 😀

  35. operacarla says:

    Hello, I’m new here and am really enjoying the discussion. Does anyone know if Wolfinger really went to the Sanford Police Station that night? Thanks!

    • Malisha says:

      I believe the final word on that was that they CALLED Wolfinger, and he TOLD them not to charge Zimmerman, not that he physically went there. I could be wrong.

      It is pretty obvious that during the next few days, however, everyone including Serino himself had orders from above NOT TO CHARGE GEORGE with any crime. Serino says about half a dozen things like:

      “I have to explain that [whatever it is] away”;
      “Otherwise people are gonna ask, how come he’s not in jail”;
      “I’m here for you, I’m on your side”;
      “If he was a thug, if he had a record, two thumbs up”;
      “There’s gonna be a lot of questions about this now”;
      “You’re still the good guy, OK? But…”

      You can tell he’s uncomfortable about the fact that he has already been instructed to lay off George. I believe he was the one who told a witness that the screams for help or mercy were coming from George (which was definitely WRONG TO DO) and I also believe he was the one who told Tracy Martin that George’s story about Trayvon circling the car was not credible, but I also believe he was the one who told Tracy Martin that George’s record was “squeaky clean” and that there was no evidence against George.

      At some later point, Serino made a comment to the press to the effect of: “I am glad that now everything will come out.”

      Wolfinger was definitely in control of this situation until the Gov realized it had gotten out of hand and he had to appoint a special prosecutor. While all this moving and shaking was taking place, you had these weird things happening like the sudden ABC revelation of a picture of the bloody head, and the various untrue “leaks” about the thugginess of Trayvon Martin. I will bet Wolfinger was behind those so he could protect himself from the onslaught. I think he probably thought that the Martin family and their public support would vanish like mist once there was a suggestion that Trayvon Martin “deserved what he got.” If Wolfinger is not unseated, at least, at the end of this mess, I will feel confirmed in my present belief that there is NO POSSIBLE END TO THE CORRUPTION OF OUR STATE AGENCIES by any means or method legally available.

      While people watch Yemen, I watch Seminole County, Florida.

      • Jun says:

        Wolfinger retired already after this incident. The most they can do is go for obstruction of justice.

      • fauxmccoy says:

        joy ann reid of thegrio reported months ago that wolfinger was present at the police station, citing inside (police) sources. she has never retracted that statement. do not know what will become of this, but i do believe that it will wait until the criminal trial of gz is over.

    • On February 26, the night Trayvon was shot and killed by the son of a retired state Supreme Court magistrate, Wolfinger drove some 50 miles to the crime scene and personally intervene in the case, which as a result remained effectively secluded from scrutiny for weeks. This is according to many news sources.

      • Malisha says:

        Wow, somehow I did not see that. This makes me believe, much more strongly than before, that then Police Chief Bill Lee called Wolfinger and had him come down to exert his personal control because Lee must have known that, as a result of the complaints that had ALREADY BEEN MADE by residents of RTL, notifying the police that they were worried about George patrolling with a loaded gun and about his sending out alarmist e-mails about young Black men in the neighborhood, Lee needed Wolfinger to personally put a lid on this case so it didn’t blow. This is now my firm belief whereas before, it was my informed hunch.

        He drove down there? How do we know he did not disturb the physical evidence at the crime scene? How do we know that the sound we heard BEFORE the fatal bullet was fired that sounded to me like a gunshot was NOT a gunshot, perhaps from the gun of a second person on the scene? Perhaps there were really two bullet casings and the one that was not “found” by the cops was later collected by someone else? All kinds of possibilities occur to me because a prosecutor coming to the scene and then weird things happening after a homicide are over the line, in terms of normal behavior. Any prosecutor who did not have a personal dog in the race [no pun intended] would have said, “hold him overnight and let me check with you in the morning.” He would have added, “take him over to the E.R. STAT.”

        Heck, I watch Law & Order; you can’t fool ME.

    • shannoninmiami says:

      Published on Apr 5, 2012 by SanfordWatch

      WITHIN HOURS of the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, SANFORD POLICE held a SECRET MEETING with the PROSECUTOR and the shooter’s father, a retired STATE MAGISTRATE. The shooter was then free to go.

  36. Malisha says:

    When I typed “deposits” I meant to type “despots.” I was rushing. Sorry! 😳

  37. Malisha says:

    I hadn’t noticed the new Robert Jr. campaign of attempted thuggification of Trayvon Martin. I think it probably is not actionable because I am not sure a person can be slandered after his own death, just as an estate cannot be sued for the tort committed by the person while still alive, although a claim against an estate can be collected after the tortfeasor dies.

    What is more important, in my opinion, is to out Robert Jr. and continue outing him and outing him and outing him, and the other family members and Z supporters as well. What job did Robert Jr. lose? Can we get some intelligence on this? If he was a lawyer, and he was licensed to practice in some state, it is hard for me to believe that a law firm or a public agency fired him because his brother was accused of a crime. Perhaps if he worked for the NAACP as their in-house counsel he might have been fired for claiming “anti-white racism” so stupidly on TV, but I can’t imagine it otherwise. Can we find out more data on what he is talking about or lying about? His insistence that Trayvon Martin attacked his brother is, of course, outrageous and he certainly cannot claim to have been there. But if there’s a good way to attack him for that, it probably involves an anti-misinformation campaign ON the social media. Does anybody do that stuff? I don’t. We need to twitter the twisted twit. 😈 ❗

    • logi says:

      How about more information on the attack at the mall where a Black security guard thought he was George and instructed a Black mob to chase him thorough the mall. I’d like some information on that incident.

      • Malisha says:

        I never heard anything about that, Logi. A Black security guard and a Black mob and we didn’t hear about it? Weird. And what was George doing at a mall if he’s been in hiding?

        • jm says:

          In his radio interview, RZ, Jr said he was mistaken for GZ at a mall described being spotted by black security guard, etc. He was clearly lying. Why when he says he looks like his brother and mobbed would RZ Jr not be in hiding if this was true.

      • Malisha says:

        So Robert Junior claims that he was in a mall and that a Black security officer instructed “a Black mob” to attack him? So having a fevered imagination and paranoid delusions runs in the family, huh? Did Robert Junior make a police report about this “being attacked by a Black Mob” incident? What jurisdiction? Are his skinhead buddies going to demonstrate until charges are brought against the offenders? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!

      • logi says:

        Yes, Jr. claims that this happened. He also said a similar incident happened at a coffee shop. There, the barista saw his name on his credit card he used to buy coffee and sent out a tweet for people to come and attack Jr. at the coffee shop, thinking he was George. No police report for that one either I suppose.

        • cielo62 says:

          That’s funny. Like Zimmerman I’d SUCH a unique name. Black folks are all going to have a vendetta against all Zimmermans! I call that Delusions of Grandeur.

          • jm says:

            “I call that Delusions of Grandeur.”

            The whole Zimmerman family has delusions of grandeur. I want to know if RZ Jr attacks were reported or if this is more lies from a paranoid delusional family who is trying to make money on the killing of Trayvon Martin from people who support the death of a black teen.

  38. Malisha says:

    “Had this tragic story NOT been brought to the fore, Trayvon Martin would forever been seen as a thug and GZ a hero in his neighbourhood.”

    Exactly. And to turn himself into a hero, George had to turn somebody into a thug. And since he couldn’t turn Trayvon Martin into a thug (and was afraid to try to be a hero with a REAL thug), George turned him into “a dead thug.” Only the public outcry resurrected the real Trayvon Martin (whereupon George and his Thuroes (“thug-heroes”) tried to re-kill the victim to refabricate their prefabricated “dead thug” to fit into their story) and then we had the Zimmerman case.

    I wonder how many of our “heroes” in public life have made the ascent by means of manufacturing dead thugs. It occurred to me because I went through 28 custody battles and my ex-husband could not come out looking like a decent father until he decided to create a whole new “bad mother” meme so that he could come out “hero” — yet another reason I must have immediately responded to the Trayvon Martin case as if it somehow explained our common American experience.

  39. We now have the internet – the most powerful weapon or tool that will effect change. I live very far from Sanford, Florida. Yet, when I read about the injustice, I couldn’t let go of the case. Had this tragic story NOT been brought to the fore, Trayvon Martin would forever been seen as a thug and GZ a hero in his neighbourhood. I also think that proving the opposite would be difficult had GZ NOT made that NEN call – that is what I call was Gods plan. With the internet, we are able to see, hear, read, and absorb ALL the evidence made public. With the internet, there are forums to discuss the case from every different perspective. I liken it to a jury in deliberations. With the internet, the authorities MUST ensure THEY are doing the jobs they are paid and or elected to do. With the internet, the eyes of the world are upon you. How powerful is that. There has always been injustice and privilege. Now, with the internet, we are discovering how wrong it REALLY is. So, you all are so right. It IS time to stand up for all that is right, moral, and good.

  40. Lonnie Starr says:

    The system of laws is one thing, the face of reality is yet another.

    That is to say: Where once there was a time when, faced with building and maintaining a new nation, the motives of all were, necessarily bent to the task. Only a code, fair to all, could deserve or obtain the support of all.

    As the nation aged and became more secure, the need of law to obtain and hold the support of all, steadily decreased. So enamored of the lawmakers and the justice system became the people, that they scarce bothered to understand what was happening. There were many good reason for this to occur. Society became more complex, with increasing technology, people learned to cede power to the technocrats. Thus the law, lawmakers and lawyer became, ever more the technocrats, who themselves “worshiped” at the alter of technology. A complex web of rules and procedures grew up, that formed a layer twixt the people and justice. This is the kind of entropy that besets any kind of system and degrades it.

    Even while officials, either corrupt, ignorant, greedy or apathetic, plays a part in the slow but steady erosion of the ability of the system to dispense justice to and/or for a better percentage of the people governed.

    This is but one “battle” along a very long rocky road. Never-the-less it is a battle that must be fought and won, because of the larger political implications that surround it. Things at law, cannot be set right, by a full frontal system wide attack, because that would sweep away the good with the bad. At our stage of development we cannot afford such hubris. So, the system must be put right, by constant and unrelenting pressure of the masses constantly seeking justice. Such that those at helm realize that there are shoals they must steer away from.

    Even though this case is about demanding performance, it is no less part of the effort to set the entire nation back on track. You can see it in the powers that came “to the rescue” when local officials “dropped the ball” for whatever their reasons. The general public showed it refused to tolerate the impending miscarriage of justice.

  41. changsterdj says:

    Reblogged this on changsterdj and commented:

    • Malisha says:

      LadySt.Clair, I have known and blogged with BettyKath for a long time and although I don’t want to be presumptuous, I think I can say with absolute sincerity and no doubt that she wants George Zimmerman convicted and imprisoned just as much as any of the rest of us. And I think we all will see that, in fact, either from a conviction or a plea deal. I do think O’Mara’s efforts now are cosmetic and they are in the service of trying to get public opinion to lighten up on George so a plea deal can be made that most of us would think is too lenient. But after all, he’s the defense guy so that is to be expected. I think his way of going about it stinks but he is, after all, a mercenary.

  42. ed nelson says:

    By God You are Great! Professor Fred! really educating!

    I was getting a little… (call it: “enough already”) with certain sordid stuff, featuring one of the worst Ugly asshole faces to be on any news venue… a fat ugly pc a crap, who nobody cauld love, moms included!

    It will better that he fades away sooner than later! Not saying I like the idea of CPunish, but it is better to kill the scum… better for all including the lifers that often live in dungeons… of isolation, better to be killed than an indeterminent sentence of torture.

    To witt: if you or I would be condemned to a place like these wharehouse for the loosers, would you desire to go on there?

    Answer: probably not very enthusiastic on that count!

    Well we aren’t there yet again… yet… but, can you relate to that emotion?…

    To be tortured ain’t cool Jethrow!

    To be put in an isolation box for the rest of time… (your time on earth…that is…”) that ain’t too cool,

    To be a monster that promotes this policy, that ain’t cool! To be a kind of monstrey, that is more akin to the montsryr… haha… Two types of MFR’s that is like the two party system, the Yin/Yang duopoly… AC DC

    It’s like the movie: “Time Machine”, (HGW) the theme/thesis seemed to be… that one part of ?”humanity” preys on another part of humanity… ! (the Morlocks preyed on the Enui.)

    • ed nelson says:

      Well, you had to see the movie, by H.G Wells, however…. and others and many more since and future to be… because: There is a war on… it may not seem to be a “war”, it may not be something that will bring very many of the ” brightest or bestest” either…

      I post this in sort of a kind of way… I have to go and, I would like to perfect some of what I done said, but on the other hand… I do mean most of what I say, and to what ever means I have I will field any comments, and come back with Jive bs… promise!

      • shannoninmiami says:

        bettykath says:

        October 7, 2012 at 12:49 pm

        Wow. Such hatred here. Absolutely no compassion for some very sick (IMO) people. Yes, GZ needs to be locked up b/c he’s a danger to society. His family is doing what families do to support each other.

        @bettykath, ‘very sick people’? What is their so-called illness that you base your compassion?
        Since I haven’t seen any of that evidence of some mysterious group/contagious/inheritable/zimmerman disease, that a whole entire family can suffer from, IMO, calling them ill is just another BS excuse for their inexcusable behavior. Until then, I’ll save my compassion for Trayvon and his family.

    • shannoninmiami says:

      I agree (probably first time ever lol) with you. GZ should be put down. But for my own sense of revenge I’ve focused on his ultimate misery, spending decades locked up, hopefully tortured by the others in ways I’ve gone over in my mind a hundred times-with vivid imagination and smile.

      • jm says:

        shannoninmiami says: “But for my own sense of revenge I’ve focused on his ultimate misery, spending decades locked up.”

        I want the GZ smirk wiped off his face by spending years in prison whether it is in solitary confinement or being bullied by other prisoners. I cannot wait to see his face when he hears the guilty of 2nd degree murder verdict.

        Also beyond George, I want the whole Zimmerman family forced to live under a rock for lying for this lying murderer, continuing the BS theory GZ was the victim who was assaulted by a thug forcing him to shoot and kill Trayvon Martin.

      • shannoninmiami says:

        @jm, i so agree with GZ’s filthy smirk smacked off his face. And that POS family is about the most outrageous I’ve ever seen! They continue to elicit sympathy (and donations) by whining about how much THEY have been made to suffer at the hands of the media and all, and sit up there and repeat the lies over and over.. Robert JR is on twitter now talking about how they were raised by such ‘wonderful parents’, posting family photos and how they will get through this together as the righteous family they are!! Robert Jr was on Geraldo last night too saying..’i lost my job because of this..I’m afraid to get sick because someone in an ambulance might harm me’ etc….unbelievable!! And again with the Trayvon attacked GZ BS!!!
        Anyone out there, please tell me why can’t they be sued for slander or somthing, anything to shut thier stupid mouths? why?

      • rachael says:

        That’s a hell of a campaign they’ve got going there. The whole lot of them just disgust me to no end.

        • jm says:

          rachael says: “The whole lot of them just disgust me to no end.”

          Their arrogance is beyond belief. Even after all the evidence is coming out pointing to the fact GZ is lying, they continue this PR campaign. This is why I want the whole Zimmerman family disgraced by a guilty verdict for GZ after they are forced to see and hear evidence that this monster they were trying to protect at the expense of “thuggarizing” Trayvon Martin is a lying mentally unbalanced person who murdered an innocent teen.

          I am looking forward to ShelLIE being exposed as a perjurer and hoping she is found guilty just to start the crumbling of the arrogant facade the Zimmerman’s are presenting.

          My wish is they will eventually be forced to go back into hiding because of their lies to protect a murderer and cashing in on the murder of a black teen.

      • bettykath says:

        Wow. Such hatred here. Absolutely no compassion for some very sick (imo) people. Yes, GZ needs to be locked up b/c he’s a danger to society. His family is doing what families do to support each other. Unfortunately, they are ill equipt to do so. I think they are in denial about what happened and are doing what they can to try to get others to believe GZ’s story. Do they know they are spreading lies? I don’t know. Certainly they aren’t helping him.

        Hatred is a fester that destroys what it gets hold of.

        • jm says:

          bettykath says” “His family is doing what families do to support each other. Unfortunately, they are ill equipt to do so. I think they are in denial about what happened and are doing what they can to try to get others to believe GZ’s story. Do they know they are spreading lies?”

          I think the family is enabling GZ to continue the fantasy story he created that maligns the Trayvon Martin saying he was a gangsta thug, therefore he deserved to die. As the evidence comes out, the Zimmerman family should know the alleged injuries and the time-lines do not fit GZ’s story of what happened on 02/26/2011. As you are aware the male members of the family are very arrogant and outspoken, furthering the thug story and they (Robert Sr and Jr) are not illiterate people.

          Ill-equipt families should probably stay off the media circuit trying to further the notion that Trayvon was a thug who attacked GZ leaving him no other option but to shoot and kill him. That only adds flame to the fire that they are in this for the money (see websites created to raise money because their son killed a black teen) and recognition (see Robert Jr’s interviews).

          Do they know they are spreading lies? I think they do as they are not uneducated people, in particular Robert Sr and Jr.

          ShelLie Zimmerman certainly knew she was perjuring herself and surely the family knew that she and GZ concocted a scheme to keep money from the Paypal account. GZ’s sister was a part of the scheme, putting GZ Paypal money into her account.

          There comes a point in time where you (Zimmerman family) needs to face facts. Whether the Zimmerman’s are responsible for ignoring a mentally unbalanced GZ or not, now that he has killed someone, they need to recognize that he is mentally ill and urge him to get come clean. Just the fact he shows no remorse for killing someone should give them a clue, even if they choose to ignore the evidence dumps which dispute his story and the fact that not for nothing has he been charged with 2nd degree murder.

          I am disgusted with the family who enable a liar and blame the victim in a very public manner.

      • bettykath says:


        Judging other people and then telling them what to do is a thankless task. Why do you think they’ll take your advice? Why should they? They, like you, have a particular mind set. They are doing what they think will help one of their own. As I said, they aren’t equipped to do it.

        Being educated isn’t the same thing as being able to analyze the evidence against George. It’s pretty tedious going through all the “paperwork” and building a picture from it. We’ve done it as a group. I’ve done a lot of analysis for myself but I’ve also learned a lot from the analysis of others. I don’t think they have anyone in their group who is both capable and motivated to do it.

        However much we emotion we bring to the analysis that we do, it is nowhere near the emotion brought by those who really want George to be telling the truth. They put more weight to what George says and probably don’t even see the inconsistencies. Jr’s bit on the Turks was so embarrassing.

        I’ve been in groups where a discussion was far far away from the facts, much like I picture the Z family and friends. Their emotion and pre-conceived ideas rule the day. They will not listen to facts or even any other opinion. The people having these discussions wild-a55 discussions aren’t evil, nor are they necessarily stupid (although some of them are stupid but don’t know it). They are ignorant.

        In this case, we’re fortunate that there is a court, if they can get a fair jury, that might deal with the facts and not George’s fantasies. Hating the Zimmermans won’t do anything to them but it do things to those who hate them.

        • jm says:

          bettykath says: “Judging other people and then telling them what to do is a thankless task. Why do you think they’ll take your advice? Why should they?’

          I am not giving Zimmerman’s advice. I point out the fact that this is the pattern of enabling and excusing that probably grew to the point where a mentally unbalanced family member like George can kill someone and they excuse it, blaming everyone else but the mentally unstable person they have raised.

          They don’t need my advice as long as they are making money on the death of Trayvon Martin, appealing to racists for money. There will be hell to pay at some point in time for the Zimmerman family and they will have a rude awakening. I am sorry to not have compassion for this greedy, lying family. Wish I didn’t know enough about them to judge them, but it was their choice go go public and in turn receive public judgement.

      • The family is racist and none could care less about what they say or do about the way they portray Trayvon Martin. This is obvious. A family can be just as supportive without putting themselves out there spewing lies. We would never have seen Frank Taaffe, Joe Oliver, Robert Zimmerman Sr and Jr. and ESPECIALLY Mark and Sondra Osterman. The fear they feel is of their own doing. We would never have seen Shellie until she put herself WAY out there and had her mug shot taken after committing obvious perjury. How many other murder cases have we seen where we heard from so-called friends and family of the murderer just asking to be challenged. The only person we have NOT seen is GZs mother and I think we all know why. I believe she would tell the truth about her son. I want to know more about those children he mentored. According to GZs Mom, he used to go into those dangerous neighbourhoods to mentor black kids. Was he really mentoring black kids when he went into those so-called neighbourhoods or was that even some cover story. After all, didn’t Osterman say – He shot someone again. I don’t trust either one of them and know there is MUCH, MUCH more to this story.

      • Jun says:

        I am going to agree with everyone here. I feel giving Zimmerman sympathy and compassion is enabling him, as have his family have and partially the court system, by letting him go after attacking police. When you enable Z, he does not learn his lesson and he hurts others. You can even tell by Zimmerman’s own NEN call, he did not want to let Trayvon go…

        “These assholes, they always get away”

        “Shit, he’s running”

        “he ran…”

        “he ran…”

        “effin coons/punks”

        On his call, George is so obviously stalking Trayvon, otherwise he would not have such a good description on a dark night of Trayvon. Trayvon by witness accounts was walking home. By Z’s own statements, Z wanted this kid, hence him chasing him on foot too and making his statements. When someone says “shit, he’s running” and then proceeds to run after that person, Z did not want to lose close proximal contact with the kid.

        The more I read about the events of that night, the more I feel Bill Lee, Norm Wolfinger, and some members of the SPD are idiots. Zimmerman should have been forensically tested that night, they should have found holes in his story, on the same night or at least by the next day when Z gave his story again and reenactment. Those cops are idiots.

    • Xena says:


      Wow. Such hatred here. Absolutely no compassion for some very sick (imo) people.

      I hate injustices. I hate double-standards. I hate the idea that human life has a value that can be compared to the lives of others. I hate deception that appeals to hateful lusts in others.

      Why should I have compassion for GZ? For me personally, having compassion for him would be the same as validating his evil.

      • jm says:

        Xena says: “Why should I have compassion for GZ? For me personally, having compassion for him would be the same as validating his evil.”

        If GZ ever once sincerely apologized for killing what he found to be an innocent teen who was visiting in the neighborhood I may feel some compassion. The thing is GZ seems to have no need for compassion, no regrets for killing Trayvon Martin, justifying it as part God’s plan. As far as I can see, all GZ and family want is cash, not compassion. (See Robert and Gladys and the realgeorgezimmerman websites.)

        • Xena says:


          As far as I can see, all GZ and family want is cash, not compassion. (See Robert and Gladys and the realgeorgezimmerman websites.)

          What GZ and his family want is for GZ to get away with murder. Because there was an investigation and subsequent charge, they capitalize on the situation. They actually blame those seeking Justice for Trayvon for their problems rather than GZ, and rather than the SPD and Wolfinger.

          It makes me wonder that had GZ not been charged, what he would have done with the money? Certainly, he was not going to use it to help his parents relocate.

      • bettykath says:

        I think if you read what I wrote again you’ll see that I was focused on the family and friends who are definitely misguided, not GZ. Your comments are all about GZ. We’re not talking about the same thing.

        • Xena says:


          I think if you read what I wrote again you’ll see that I was focused on the family and friends who are definitely misguided, not GZ. Your comments are all about GZ. We’re not talking about the same thing.

          Of course my comments are about GZ. He’s the “reason for the season” so to speak. Without GZ, we wouldn’t know one damn thing about his dad, mom, brother, sister, neither ShelLIE. Without GZ, Frank Taaffe would still be a sorry excuse for a man with his house in foreclosure and racking up more DUIs. Without GZ, Joe Oliver would have probably kept his job and not made a fool of himself on national television. Without GZ, Mark Osterman could still perform his duties as an Air Marshall without his position being recognized.

          If GZ has compassion for his family and friends, he would not have acted like a wimp and had them make fools of themselves.

          I don’t have compassion for GZ’s family and friends anymore than I had compassion for Osama Bin Laden who used his “friends” to kill thousands of Americans.

      • Jun says:

        Naw, I feel no compassion for his family, except for maybe Gz’s mom and his sister and his cousin that he raped, only because GZ’s mom did not go on TV clearly lying (and I am sure a lot of people are insulted to feel that they think they are stupid with such obvious lies and I hope both Roberts get perjury charges) and Mama Zimmerman was beating George’s ass daily (probably for being the sociopath that he is), and his sister never went on air lying either or defecting questions, and obvious empathy for the cousin as she was just another one of George’s victims of his bullying. Other than that, Robert can shove it, Daddy Z can go to hell, Taffe can go jump off a bridge, and Shellie can die of heart attack for all I care.

        • jm says:

          @Jun GZ’s sister was part of the conspiracy to hide Paypal money. Some of the money was switched to her account. I think the whole family knew about the Zimmerman Paypal money caper, not just ShelLIE and GZ. I think this was alluded to in one of the prison phone calls but I can’t be sure. Vaguely remember ShelLIE getting upset that GZ told the family.

          I agree with you about Mother Z. She probably beat GZ every time she caught him in a lie and knew early on he had a “personality disorder.”

          As far as the cousin goes, I think she was very brave to come out and say what sort of a person GZ was and I do have compassion for her. It must have been very embarrassing to go public with this but good for her for allowing others to see what type of a person GZ was earlier in his life – a sneaky liar with no boundaries.

      • rayvenwolf says:

        @Xena: GZ would have spent last dime cleaning up his debt. One can be stupid or one can be greedy, being both at the same time never ends well.

      • Jun says:

        I havent seen it but if she is lying too then she can go shove it too… there is no evidence that backs up Zimmerman’s claims, except that he shot Trayvon, and that he pinned the kid facedown while he was dying until he stopped struggling

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Xena, I wonder if bettykath is from the CD blog where the folks over there are wanting GZ freed for the murder he committed but, they wanted Casey Anthony to either receive LWOP or the DP for the murder of Caylee Anthony. they have talked about Trayvon and his family like dogs or worse. I just don’t understand these people in what is suppose to be the best country in the world. I’m sorry but, I don’t see it as being that and, it’s far from it. when Caylee was reported as a missing child, there were AA as well as whites walking outside in the hot Florida heat, looking for that little girl. it didn’t matter what the color of her skin was, blacks joined in the search for her as well because, she was a child of 2 1/2 and, Trayvon was a child of 17 but, by the laws of this country, he was a child none the less. THE HEART DOES NOT BLEED BLACK OR WHITE BLOOD, it bleeds red in both races once the air hits it. children are not born with hatred for another race in them, they are taught racial hatred by their parents. if this is the best that you can teach your child, they would be better off not learning a thing from mommy and daddy. CHILDREN LIVE WHAT THEY LEARN!

  43. cielo62 says:

    Quietly stalking…

  44. Two sides to a story says:

    Call it Ma’at, or Buddha mind, or the Christ Conciousness, or basic human kindness. We have been called.

    • Xena says:

      @Two sides to a story. What you said reminds me of Romans 2:13-15, To paraphrase, it is not those who have heard the law who are accounted among the righteous, but those who by nature obey the law.

    • Jun says:

      I agree. I personally feel all religions simply teach us morals and values, which are generally the same. I do not adhere to any religion but I was brought up buddhist and christian at the same time and found the values were very similar and the morals too.

      • Malisha says:

        Jun, you believe that religions teach morals and values because of your excellent experience with the Buddhist and Christian teachings of your family, that’s my guess. Unfortunately, people whose families were more authoritarian and less authoritative than your own have often had the misfortune of their religions teaching them “immoral false superiority and the values of tyrants and deposits using big lies and threats of violence to subdue their flocks” instead. In fact, “do unto others as you would have others do unto you” or the Hebrew counterpart of “that which you do not want to suffer, do not impose upon others” [putting the rule into the negative of do-not rather than the affirmative of “do”] does not seem to come up much in most of the religious teaching I have seen administered to children I have known in these 65 years.

        Two stories.

        First, my kid was 7 and his friend was 7 and she came over to play and then asked to stay the night and it was a weekend so I called her mom and checked, and the answer was yes. My kid had a bunk bed and she wanted upper bunk and got it. As bedtime approached I was in the room next door and could hear the conversation. They got into it over the question of whether there had to be only ONE GOD (the little girl’s position) or there could be multiple gods (my kid’s position) and then my kid moved in for the “kill” in the argument. He reminded her that in her house there were pictures of Jesus (her mom was Catholic) and of Chief Joseph of the Nez Perce Tribe (her father was Native American) and of Moses holding the Ten Commandments (in a book of Bible Stories for Children), as well as Santa Clause (at Christmas). He started enumerating gods because she had initially gotten all mixed up about which bearded men were really gods and which weren’t, and had them all befuddled together, causing family hilarity. He said the Nez Perce had several gods and Catholics had three and Moses had one and “Santa Claus has to give presents to Indian children who even have an elephant god and a goddess with six hands!” (some muddled description of Hindu dieties) and so he won. The argument heated up so much that I came in and pronounced upon them: “Nobody knows, so either way you believe it, the other one isn’t wrong either.” They then began to discuss a movie instead and peace reigned. None of the religions these kids had learned or learned about was presented with any extreme coercion by any of their respective parents. But any of them COULD have been. They were as willing to think they were right and others were wrong as any kids their age, but they had no real incentive to do so, either. Religion hadn’t taught them their morals; their parents had, and mostly by example. (Indeed, the little girl’s parents thought very differently about the origins of the world or the god principle, but they both taught her, by example, how to be a good person, so she was.) As you can see, I taught MY kid how to argue a point! :mrgreen:

        Other story: two kids are going out to play. One of the kids’ mother tells him these rules: “Go down to Bobby’s house and play with Bobby and come back at five.” The other says to her kid: “Don’t cross the tracks, don’t go near the canal, don’t go farther than Second Street, don’t touch anybody’s dog; don’t go into anybody’s house who hasn’t already been in your house while I’ve been home; don’t speak to any strangers; don’t go into the store at the corner of Main Street; don’t play baseball in the street; don’t collect any bugs or worms; don’t let your bike get stolen; don’t stay out past six o’clock.”

        The first mother only gave her kid two rules; the other mother gave her kid a whole SLEW of rules but much more freedom.

        It occurs to me that those religions and those presentations of the religions (by their own priests and by the communities and families that teach them) that become overly involved in controlling their adherents really run afoul of the attempt to instill good social values, simply because over-controlling people’s lives cannot have good results. Once the authorities lose respect (as religious authorities tend to do if they have indulged in this kind of ‘we are right’ behavior and over-controlling attitudes) the thing falls apart. You never get a really good society in a prison — same concept.

        George Zimmerman’s neighborhood, before he killed Trayvon Martin, was really not a high-crime neighborhood. It is a high-crime neighborhood NOW, thanks to him. And he has described all that as “God’s Plan.”

        • cielo62 says:

          Wonderful story~ I agree about the children’s perspective. Especially at THIS time of the year, when conservative christians don’t “celebrate” Halloween, and many wonderful christian kids DO. As a Wiccan myself, where Samhein (pronounced Sow-weyn) is one of the 8 holy days of the Wiccan calendar, it pains me to see kids equate one of my holy days with evil and a fictional Satan character. As a teacher, I do the same thing you did, “whether you celebrate Halloween or not, you are BOTH correct.” I try, in my humble way, to live a moral life.IMO THAT is what is lacking in today’s world. People get hung up on labels (ie thugs, heroes, etc) and don’t get beyond that to the fundamental CHARACTER of the person. For fun, check out this hilarous skit by Emo Williams: The Wisdom Of Emo Phillips I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said “Stop! don’t do it!” “Why shouldn’t I?” he said. I said, “Well, there’s so much to live for!” He said, “Like what?” I said, “Well…are you religious or atheist?” He said, “Religious.” I said, “Me too! Are you christian or buddhist?” He said, “Christian.” I said, “Me too! Are you catholic or protestant?” He said, “Protestant.” I said, “Me too! Are you episcopalian or baptist?” He said, “Baptist!” I said,”Wow! Me too! Are you baptist church of god or baptist church of the lord?” He said, “Baptist church of god!” I said, “Me too! Are you original baptist church of god, or are you reformed baptist church of god?” He said,”Reformed Baptist church of god!” I said, “Me too! Are you reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1879, or reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915?” He said, “Reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915!” I said, “Die, heretic scum”, and pushed him off. — Emo Phillips

      • Jun says:

        There is that concept of superiority which I hear protestants and catholics fight over for example. I do know that it appears but I was never taught that, and although I am spiritual, I do not adhere to any religion, although I have studied christianity and buddhism. I would say the superiority and bourgeois ideal of religious thinking was never written in any texts and it is taught humility to one another. Buddhism for example, stresses that they do not have all the answers and welcome other thoughts of action and philosophy and whichever makes you a better person in the end is what counts, not which sect of school of thought. Buddhism believes that Jesus did exist and I would not doubt that Jesus may have followed Buddhism before he came across his own version of teachings.

  45. Xena says:

    Have we not been summoned one at a time from near and far by our empathy for Trayvon Martin and our desire to do what we can to restore justice in his case?

    When first hearing of the case, I was somewhat jaded. Locally, we had recently experienced the case of Mark Anthony Barmore, a 23 yr old unarmed Black man who was shot and killed by two police officers. Barmore was shot dead in a church daycare center, in front of children and staff. One officer had already demonstrated killing unarmed Black men twice previously and was still on the force. Barmore was shot with a grazing bullet against his head, and twice in the back. Everyone from the Chief of Police to the coroner did everything possible to cover-up.

    My first reaction when hearing about the SPD’s handling of Trayvon’s death was, “Here we go again. Sanford, Florida and Rockford, Illinois must be bed partners.”

    I was shaken with the idea that the police would draw their guns upon entering the church, disregard the presence of ministerial staff, and give all power and authority to their guns. Those police officers disrespected a place of worship, and cared nothing about the emotions of little human beings that will forever remember seeing a man killed in front of them, the sounds of guns, Barmore’s death gurgle, and the pool of blood he laid in.

    But then, I heard that GZ was an un-deputized nobody, that NW watch has rules that he violated, and most importantly, his NEN call. It sounded to me like GZ was setting Trayvon up to be shot by the police or in the alternative, justifying his shooting. It’s in the play book. I’ve heard it many times previously. And I thought please God, not this time.

    GZ’sre-enactment is so inconsistent with his NEN call that I cannot understand why Wolfinger didn’t file charges that same day.

    Yes, we have been summoned by a higher power. Everything that GZ has tried using for his benefit has come back to bite him in the butt. That tells me that it’s his time to reap consequences. He is his own worst enemy. We are only confirming that.

    • MichelleO says:

      I REALLY fear that America has become a police state. This is only going to get worse before it get’s better. Canada is starting to look interesting.

  46. bettykath says:

    George won’t be doing much tattling in prison b/c it won’t be the guards that hold him to account.

    • bettykath says:

      Actually, GZ will undoubtedly meet some real thugs.

      • Alexandra P. says:

        In a perfect world, George would share a jail with another truly disturbed and manipulative sociopath like Casey Anthony. A match made in hell—-Mr. and Mrs. Most Hated in the USA.

      • rayvenwolf says:

        Having had an uncle who went to prison for choosing to run with the wrong people on the wrong night(robbery turned murder) I know by extension what GZ is going to go through and he doesn’t have clue one. County is a watered down version of the real thing. the prison inmates will eat him alive if he doesn’t keep his mouth shut(which he has shown he can’t do in the best of times) and keep his head down. If the gangs don’t do it, it may be his very own celly.

        Protection inside will come at one of two prices – His soul to a gang or after he’s been assaulted and he cries for protection.

        • jm says:

          @rayvenwolf I was thinking more on the lines of what happened to Jeffrey Dahmer who was killed in prison will happen to George Zimmerman. Lots of murderers in prison who have nothing to lose and maybe even some guards who may turn their backs. The only way GZ can survive is in solitary. Either way, I wouldn’t want to be in GZ’s shoes as more and more evidence is coming out. He has to know things aren’t looking good for him as far as a not guilty verdict. Bet he’s not smirking at this point.

        • cielo62 says:

          Either of which are part of the “justice” he deserves”.

  47. Malisha says:

    Professor, many thanks for that. It is a remarkable story in that it has all the elements that we find present in the Zimmerman case:

    The initial confrontation that is not a confrontation at all on the part of the innocent party, who only wants to proceed in order to get where he is going, and who has no intent to meddle in the life of the other party (“Some creepy guy is following me”);

    The false allegations by the abuser against the victim, setting the stage for the abuser to justify his conduct (“There’s a real suspicious guy…he looks like he’s up to no good”);

    The crime itself;

    The prolonged refusal of the society to respond honestly to the problem or to give credibility where it is obviously due (“Trayvon was a thug” and etc. in all its iterations).

    I believe the reason this case has lit up so many people who are staying active on the Internet is that it has touched off, probably in each one of us, some internal dialogue we have been having for years about our terrible discomfort with what we see happening in our society. Here we see, in a single case, an encyclopedic listing of “what is wrong with this picture” and we can’t take our eyes off it.

    Earlier today I was thinking about George looking at Trayvon early on, and seeing — with his own distorted POV — someone about to do wrong, someone who needed to be stopped from doing the wrong he was planning to do. That was not Trayvon Martin; that was a figment of George’s fevered imagination. Remember, George was the guy who got fired from a routine ho-hum job (where he bullied a co-worker named Omar something) because he kept calling management and complaining about what others on the job were doing wrong, in his sacred opinion. George was the one calling in to the NEN police line and even 911 constantly with complaints about people in the neighborhood doing wrong, in his monarchic opinion. George was always granting himself some sort of status that made him, in his own mind, the proper person to identify and report supposed bad behavior on everyone else’s part. He saw bad. Where he was, wherever he looked, he saw bad. Bad being planned; bad about to happen; bad presumed; bad feared.

    George is going to be a horrible problem in prison. He’s going to be making all the guards crazy with his b=llshit unless, of course, they get fed up and start bonking him on the noggin for his tattling, or keep him in solitary or transfer him to the psych. ward or something. George sees bad because he expects bad because, as the Talmud says:

    “We see things NOT as they are, but as WE are.”

    • Xena says:

      @Malisha. ((((APPLAUSE)))

      • Malisha says:

        Thanks, Xena.

        I thought of something else, because of a chain of consciousness that led me to wish George Zimmerman had gone to a Montessori school when he was little. Anyway, what I thought of was this:

        “Wouldn’t it be great if George Zimmerman had curiosity instead of suspicion in his mind/heart on 2/26/2012 at about 7 p.m.? Wouldn’t it have been great if he had seen Trayvon and thought, ‘Hmmm. I wonder what he’s doing?’ rather than, “Hmmm, I wonder what WRONG he’s doing?’ Change ONE WORD in the mind/heart of a person and change the world.”

        Wow. What if George had looked upon Trayvon with curiosity rather than suspicion. “Wonder why that kid likes white sneakers? I don’t because they get dirty too quick.” “Wonder why that kid doesn’t seem to mind the rain; it annoys me to walk in the rain.” “Wonder what the button says, that the kid is wearing; can’t see it from here.” “Wonder who he is, I haven’t seen him around.” “Wonder what it’s like to be African American.”

        We would have never heard of George, if these had been his thoughts. He would have had a chance to complete his education.

      • justchill says:

        X 2

    • Excellent comment. Thank you.

    • jm says:

      Malisha says: Remember, George was the guy who got fired from a routine ho-hum job (where he bullied a co-worker named Omar something) because he kept calling management and complaining about what others on the job were doing wrong. George was the one calling in to the NEN police line and even 911 constantly with complaints about people in the neighborhood doing wrong. We see things NOT as they are, but as WE are.”

      Exactly. GZ judged Trayvon by himself.

      GZ also tries to distract from his own inadequacies by pointing out other people.. Pay no attention to my failures, look at this suspicious person.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Indeed, it is difficult and disconcerting to even attempt to divine the terrible view of the world GZ held in his head. It is bereft of compassion, it is filled with “superiors” and “targets” and visions of self aggrandizement at the expense of others.

        In a fight, holding tightly onto the garments of an opponent, the fight reflex is to grapple with that hand holding you. TM should have had GZ DNA on his hands from that effort. But it is lacking. Meaning that TM stood helplessly while GZ held him by the clothing. Then, in the brief interlude when he was certain. none of the witnesses, who were coming and going would be viewing, he quickly took the shot. It, not only wasn’t a fight or struggle, it was sneaky. I’m not certain that TM even saw the gun in his hand. Because, usually the sight of a gun would paralyze one with fear, vocalizing would cease. But TM continues to scream, right up until the shot is fired. There is not a moments pause or choke.

        GZ does not live in a world where there is any justice! He does not believe that any man owes anything to any other man. He is wrapped in a world where lies and deceit reign supreme and are to be used to advantage oneself over others. It’s a nightmarish dream world where “superiority” is there for the taking by those who wish to take it. It is not given, as a result of gaining the confidence of others, but to be “stolen” with the hooks of lies and deceits. The very inverse of Ma’at,

    • shannoninmiami says:

      wow, well put! thank you Malisha.

    • MichelleO says:

      I THINK that this case leaves people feeling rather impotent and sad that no one came to the aid of this boy. This very bad person had information given to him from various segments of our modern day society, telling him that it would be no big deal to kill this boy. He had his neighbors pegged correctly, in that they would do nothing, and would continue to hide behind closed doors. He had his local police department figured out correctly in that he could kill a black kid in cold blood and get way with it. All he had to do is to behave like a brother in blue, talk a lot of cop talk and lingo, come off as well-behaved—-and he would be let go. Heck, he could even go wash himself (and the evidence) off in the police station bathroom.

  48. princss6 says:

    It is my sincere belief that the reason this case resonates with so many around the world is because it has caused an imbalance is the scales of justice. I believe those who want to see GZ held accountable are moved by the righteousness of this quest. But to be honest, we are up against some very powerful forces who do not want to see GZ held accountable.

    I attended two events this weekend and had the opportunity today to meet Sybrina Fulton, Jahvaris Martin and Benjamin Crump. Despite all they have been through, and there are very few people who have experienced what they have, these are sincere, honest and gracious people. Let me tell you, Attorney Crump is so greatful for all of us who continue to keep discussing this case and for fighting for Justice on the internet. Sybrina said that it helps her that so many want Justice for her son. Speaking to Jahvaris, let me tell you, Sybrina Fulton did not raise a thug and Trayvon was no more a thug than President Obama is a thug.

    That imagery of a thug may tear this country apart because GZ wants to ride that meme to an acquittal. GZ is very short-sighted and does not realize he is in a no win situation regardless of the outcome of the case.

    So yes, I can say for me, I’m involved because to restore justice and to regain balance, GZ must be held accountable. If we take our eyes off this case, it becomes an incentive for TPTB to let him off. The system wants to continue to treat Trayvon as the SPD did on 2/26 which is as a dead black thug who had no value. We can’t let that happen or as Dr. Phil says, it will be open season on young black men from all and sundry and believe me, they are targeted enough. Yes, most young black men are killed by other young black men but as Attorney Crump said, you would never find a situation where a black male would be caught with a gun and a dead body and could walk out of the police station that night, especially if the dead victim was a white body.

    • rachael says:

      There is nothing I would like more than to meet Sybrina Fulton and Jahvaris Martin and give them a big hug. I’m so glad that you told them we are here and with them all the way.

      Thank you.

    • Xena says:

      Bless your heart, Princss6. I reach out to Tracy and Sybrina daily in my prayers. Attorney Crump is so right. In the least, the person would have been charged with firing a gun in a residential area or the same charge as M. Alexander.

      • looneydoone says:

        Word is Gladys and Robert Zimmerman will be appearing (in shadow, of course) on Piers Morgan program tonight.

        Is this correct ? What is up with this despicable family of whining apologists and their media enablers ?

        They are the most arrogant bunch of losers….worse than Scott Peterson’s mother. They make my blood boil

        • Xena says:

          Xena, Word is Gladys and Robert Zimmerman will be appearing (in shadow, of course) on Piers Morgan program tonight. Is this correct ? What is up with this despicable family of whining apologists and their media enablers ?

          She’s on now. She only wants to talk about GZ not being racist. That demonstrates an agenda. The feds must be getting really close to that hate crime charge.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            With facial recognition software, I wondered if they might be going through white power concert/event photos and such. Who knows?

          • jm says:

            Xena says: “She’s on now. She only wants to talk about GZ not being racist. That demonstrates an agenda. The feds must be getting really close to that hate crime charge.”

            You can never know how much I want the feds to charge GZ with a hate crime and anything else they can go find to throw at that smirking remorseless SOB.

            I want GZ charged even more when I hear his arrogant relatives repeat a liar’s lies. Second degree murder is not enough.

          • Xena says:

            I want GZ charged even more when I hear his arrogant relatives repeat a liar’s lies. Second degree murder is not enough.

            It was either Looney or Lonnie who brought something up that caused me to think about GZ’s handling of the donations. That money was received interstate, and he conducted a fraud by telling supporters he needed it for living expenses and legal defense, yet used it to pay pre 2/26/12 debts and pay off personal loans.

            There’s something else too. While he was tucked away nice and cozy with Osterman, and before launching his website begging for money,, GZ spent $135 at the U.S. Post office. That’s federal jurisdiction and I wonder if the feds looked into it.

            IOWs, this is more than investigating GZ for racial profiling and committing a hate crime. Also, as is the pattern of the feds, they record and get all their ducks in a row before filing charges.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            I think it was Looney, I never got into those issues. However, I do think that there was quite a bit of noise in the NEN call, much more than there should have been. I’ve begun to wonder if perhaps some of the static or whatever noises are there, might have been walkie talkies being used.

            Well, so far only one person has heard anything in the background of the NEN, but that’s not what I was able to hear, my ears aren’t as good as most. I’m pretty sure that anyone who listens will hear things that I am not able to. But, I think that anything I am able to hear in the background, should be heard by others as well.

            As tempted as I am to “poison the well” by saying what it is I hear clearly being said in the background, I won’t, because I’d like to see it confirmed. I will say that it’s one of the several things the author points out. But, this one is remarkably clear to me, and makes me thing that for sure there was someone else there. Either in the car or just outside the window. If so, I’m sure the FBI and SP have it. It’s probably what’s making GZ and Co., antsy.

            GZ’s “friends” seem to have gone underground. I haven’t read or heard a peep from them lately. Anyone?

      • looneydoone says:

        I suspect the Feds are getting really close to charging Conspiracy to Obstruct Justice, Conspiracy on the PayPal money moving scam, and various Civil Rights violations.

        They certainly feel themselves “entitled”, do they not ?
        Arrogant, lying, cunning, callous SOB’s. Wonder what they’re so feverishly trying to hide. I listened to the jail calls between gz, half sister “Susie/Grace and Gladys (the ones in Spanish) gz and Gladys do not like one another. They have a very stilted /distanced relationship. For example, gz addresses her as “Madre” rather than the more familiar mama, or mami…….she in turn replies with “si mi amor” (yes, my love) rather than “si, hijo” “si, mijo”or “si, joven”…..there is no sincerity to the mother and gz’s relationship. It’s superficial

        • Xena says:


          Xena, I suspect the Feds are getting really close to charging Conspiracy to Obstruct Justice, Conspiracy on the PayPal money moving scam, and various Civil Rights violations. They certainly feel themselves “entitled”, do they not ? Arrogant, lying, cunning, callous SOB’s. Wonder what they’re so feverishly trying to hide.

          Now that you mentioned it, that might be why the State has not proceeded on a charge against GZ for perjury. Those donations consisted of interstate transactions and would fall under federal jurisdiction. I wonder if there is a federal statute on receiving money with intent to defraud? Thanks! You make an excellent point.

          Of the Civil Rights violations, there is little doubt that the feds are still investigating and gathering info to charge GZ with racial profiling. He has a history of doing that which has followed him to this case.

          That also explains why suddenly, Junior and now momma Zim are hitting the media with an agenda to say GZ is not a racist.

          What are they trying to hide? Maybe the “someone else” that GZ shot.

      • looneydoone says:

        I’m eo-blocked, unable to access the two videos from tonights program. Damn, damn, damn ! I hope someone posts a link so I can have a look.

      • Xena says:

        Darn looneydoone. The vids embeeded again. Professor, could you please delete the comment with the two embedded vids? Thanks.

        Okay looneydoone. This is what you do. Go to youtube and search for “Open Letter to George Zimmerman.” You want to one uploaded by Justin Reilly.

        The other vid is LLMPapa’s channel and is titled “A Cry For Justice.”

      • looneydoone says:

        Thank you

      • looneydoone says:

        I finally found a link that I could use to view the two video’s from last night’s Piers Morgan program (the conservative outhouse, of all places….what a filthy pit that site is)

        Mrs Zimmerman is every bit as arrogant as Robert Sr and Jr
        Such an air of self entitlement from that pack of Jackals. They are pushing the “we’re not racist” as a deflection from evidence in this case that will convict gz. They are sweating bullets while working hard to keep skeletons from tumbling out of their family closet…I wonder just what it is they are intent on hiding about themselves.
        Child abusers ?
        GZ’s mental history ?
        Alleged sexual molestation by GZ as fact ?
        GZ’s problem drinking ?
        “George just shot someone else” ?

        Everyone in the family comes across as seriously dysfunctional..including the number of children acknowledged. Is it 3 ? Or 4 ? gz is unusually close with his half sister Susie/Grace

        Gladys and Susie/Grace seem to share a closer relationship than Gladys does with her son, George. . In one call to Susie/Grace from jail, she & Gladys were partying at Uncle George/Mike Meza’s home Thought they were all “estranged”…..or not ?

    • Jun says:

      I simply can not stand the disrespect of GZ and the like with their lies and I heard TM’s screams from far but I am here now. We have to watch over this case because it stands as a symbol that this is not right and is completely against human value, let alone American value, of bravery and freedom. Zimmerman did nothing brave and took away Trayvon’s freedom that night, and as people, and Americans, we can not call ourselves the land of the free and home of the brave by letting a cowardly weak bully get his way and cause insecurity to our state with their actions and break apart the unity of the United States and cause danger for others. TM is a symbol that we as people will not stand for that crap. This just shows how powerful we the people are, and we together, can change and bring balance to many issues on this shared land.

      • racerrodig says:

        Exactly !! The Zidiots who state he is a hero, was concerned about his community, was preventing crime and all of the rhetoric are sickening. Just as sickening is Z’s website with an American Flag backdrop. I actually left a rather scathing message there about him…… response from them, cowards!

        The reality is that Trayvon’s murder was unjustified, and anyone who even entertains the thought that is was, has some real issues. I’m in NJ and even though I could say “…it doesn’t affect me….” I’d be kidding myself. This is about morals, justice, racism, profiling ans all that those imply. ANY one of could be next.

      • Jun says:

        Bottom line, he terrorized this kid, by trying to live out his cop vigilante fantasy and targeted Trayvon without any justification or provocation.

    • shannoninmiami says:

      Trayvon’s family deserves the support of the people in every way. It’s good to know that they know we are all out here, watching out for their baby and standing by them and holding his murderer accountable. I wish we could do more. If possible, i’d like to be informed of such further action i can do, i’m sure most others would too.

    • Good post and truth telling, Princss6!

    • You said,

      “Yes, most young black men are killed by other young black men but as Attorney Crump said, you would never find a situation where a black male would be caught with a gun and a dead body and could walk out of the police station that night, especially if the dead victim was a white body.”

      Absolutely agree, and I don’t believe there is any chance that the Sanford Police Department would have permitted that hypothetical Black male to clean up in the bathroom at the police station before the interrogation.

      “I attended two events this weekend and had the opportunity today to meet Sybrina Fulton, Jahvaris Martin and Benjamin Crump. Despite all they have been through, and there are very few people who have experienced what they have, these are sincere, honest and gracious people. Let me tell you, Attorney Crump is so grateful for all of us who continue to keep discussing this case and for fighting for Justice on the internet. Sybrina said that it helps her that so many want Justice for her son. Speaking to Jahvaris, let me tell you, Sybrina Fulton did not raise a thug and Trayvon was no more a thug than President Obama is a thug.”

      Thank you for sharing your experience with us.

      I stand in absolute awe of their courage and determination in pursuit of justice, not just for Trayvon, but for everyone.

      We are all brothers and sisters, regardless of the color of our skin. When justice is denied to one of us, as it was and continues to be denied to Trayvon, it is denied to all of us. That includes the racists who specialize in character assassination with false and defamatory information to ridicule and discredit anyone who dares to disagree with them. The struggle for justice can overwhelm the most devout believers, especially when the racists subject them on a daily basis to character assassination of the most vile sort imaginable.

      Despite carrying an immense burden of grief for the loss of her son, Sybrina Fulton perseveres in the fight for justice with a quiet grace and dignity that redefines what it means to be courageous. By example she says more than words can convey about the power of love to manifest as courage and strength.

      • Vicky says:

        I’ll give you one more. Had the victim been white, a door to door canvas of the gated community would have been conducted that very night in an effort to locate his family.
        When I first heard about this case, I was heartbroken to realize it was assumed not only by GZ, but by LE and the witnesses as well, that Taryvon didn’t belong there.

      • Jun says:

        I will say that this is kind of police department specific issue. Not every law enforcement officer would have acted in the way some did on the Trayvon Martin case *cough Bill Lee Norm Wolfinger cough*. I understand that there are some who are ignorant and cant look past race, however, Donald Montanez killed Glenn Rich (Glenn is black), and that case was properly investigated and Donald is in prison for killing a black person. I personally feel some of the police at SPD wanted the arrest but were overruled by Bill Lee and Wolfinger. Not saying racism does not exist but that not all would act in that way, especially when there is a dead kid involved.

    • ladystclaire says:

      I agree with everything you’ve written here and, I too would love to meet Sybrina, Jahvaris and Tracy in order to give them my sympathy in person and, to let them know that I am with them all the way in this up hill fight for justice in the name of Trayvon Benjamin Martin, all the way. blacks have been murdered and thought of as less than humans for FAR TOO LONG in this country and, it has to stop. I know it’s not meant for me to understand everything and, I accept that but, I’m having the hardest time trying to understand why some in this country want GZ to get away with killing an innocent African American child. these people are living in another time and, they seem to think they are right and everybody else is wrong. Trayvon was a child, who had just turned 17 a mere three weeks when his life was so savagely taken from him for no reason at all, other than the mere fact that he was black. it’s so unbelievable that so many people can support someone for killing a child. a child who caused no harm to his executioner what so ever. but, here they are pinning a medal on his chest as well as sending in their donations in order to help in his defense all because he killed a black child. IMO, those who defend GZ are no better than the likes of dictators of some third world countries. in fact, they are worse. African Americans may look on the surface of the skin but, they are no different than these WHITE RACIST on the inside. if Zimmerman was 100% Hispanic, these ignorant racist whites would not give him the time of day. Trayvon Martin and his family deserves justice and, GZ deserves 35 to life behind a prison wall. if the truth be told, he deserves to spend the rest of his miserable life in prison! WE ARE HUMAN BEINGS TO! RIP TBM

  49. bettykath says:

    Yes, we are trying to bring justice to Trayvon Martin. Now if only we could also bring justice to the thousands of others who are regularly denied justice. It shouldn’t take a huge public outcry for justice, but without the outcry, justice doesn’t have a chance. My list would include all those who are assaulted, without provocation, by police officers, all those incarcerated on falsified evidence, all those sentenced to death, all those who have lost their children due to falsified evidence, all those who have lost their homes due to falsified mortgages, all those who lost their savings and retirements due to bankster and financiers manipulation of the stock markets, all those whose health has been destroyed by pollution of corporations who buy their way out of regulations, …… oh, the list goes on.

    • MichelleO says:

      And since America has become a police state with all of the newly murdered by law enforcement, let us add those who are gunned by police officers who say they feared for their lives, when the victims had no weaponry. Shades of SYG, which is legal in about 25 states.

      • cielo62 says:

        It happens in Houston way too often. Getting justice against a cop is nearly impossible here. People have the same mentality as GZ; the effin punk deserved it. The local rag always has GZ supporters outnumber Martin supporters 10-1. Evidence? Who needs it! Ma’at has shaken the dust of her sandles off and left Houston.

      • Xena says:


        And since America has become a police state with all of the newly murdered by law enforcement, let us add those who are gunned by police officers who say they feared for their lives, when the victims had no weaponry.

        In the Mark Anthony Barmore case which I shared upthread, the police alleged that Barmore went for his gun and there was a struggle. Witnesses testified that Barmore raised his hands over his head when the cops open the closet door.

        In Barmore’s case, the investigators said it was preventable had Officer Poole not drawn his firearm while running into the church, the daycare center, and the closet where Barmore had ran to hide. The investigation findings remind me too much of what Serino wrote; i.e., that the killing was preventable, while leaving open the question, was it justifiable?

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