Zimmerman: The Next Hearing on October 19th will Address the Discovery and Admissibility of Martin’s School Records

Crane and I have taken a few days off to take care of other business, We are doing well and in good health.

The next court hearing is October 19th before Judge Debra Nelson. She scheduled the hearing to consider the State’s motion to quash the defense subpoenas for Trayvon’s school records. The State contends that O’Mara issued and served the subpoenas in violation of Florida’s criminal rules that require court approval before they can be served.

O’Mara issued the subpoenas pursuant to the civil rules that do not require approval. That was a rookie mistake since Zimmerman’s case is a criminal case.

Since O’Mara handles a mix of civil and criminal cases, he should be familiar with both sets of rules and the judicial-approval requirement for subpoenas in criminal cases.

I lack sufficient information to decide whether he was aware of the requirement and failed to adequately inform and supervise the person in his office who prepared the subpoenas or whether he deliberately bypassed the judge hoping the schools would turn over the records without objection.

The State also contends that the school records are personal and protected from disclosure due to privacy concerns. The State also argues that the information he seeks is irrelevant and inadmissible.

I discussed this issue in a previous article and concluded that the records, whether good or bad, are not admissible. There are two possible exceptions.

If the records contain information that Trayvon was known to be an aggressive bully, the defense should be permitted to inform the jury about that character trait as it is probative and relevant to the issue of who was the aggressor. Note that evidence of the specific bad acts upon which that character trait is based would not be admissible.

If the records contain information that Trayvon was known to be a person with a non-aggressive and peaceful disposition, the prosecution should be permitted to inform the jury about that character trait as it also is probative and relevant to the issue of who was the aggressor. Evidence of specific acts of good conduct would not be admissible.

I have never been a fan of character evidence because it does not mean anything without specific acts of conduct to support it. Even if specific acts of conduct were admitted, that would not necessarily mean that the person acted in a manner consistent with that character trait at the time of the incident.

I believe that evidence of what Trayvon and Zimmerman actually did has significantly more probative value than evidence of their respective personality traits.

I do not know whether Judge Nelson will announce her decision on the 19th. I believe she will listen to the arguments of counsel that day and issue a written decision a few days later.

All of you have been working very hard on mastering the evidence in this case by organizing it according to its relevance or probative value in proving or disproving the elements of second degree murder and self-defense.

This is what we teach law students to do and I compliment all of you on your efforts and progress.

In my next two articles I will discuss the societal purpose and development of a system of laws to promote that purpose using Ancient Egypt as an example.

374 Responses to Zimmerman: The Next Hearing on October 19th will Address the Discovery and Admissibility of Martin’s School Records

  1. Xena says:

    George Zimmerman gives the real reason why he killed Trayvon Martin.

  2. Malisha says:

    Xena, I don’t remember the voice-stress guy saying George sings. Where’s that, do you know?

    • rachael says:

      It is an expression.

    • Xena says:

      What he said was that GZ was drawing out his answers. When you listen to the first test, GZ draws out “no” so that it’s “nnnno.” The entire video is over an hour long so I don’t want to embed it here. It’s on the AxiomAmnesia Youtube channel.

      I’m not sure if that is a condition of thinking before completing an answer (giving opportunity to change the answer) or what causes it — but I am thinking it is learned behavior.

  3. Xena says:

    I just listened to GZ’s NEN calls on the following site. It causes me to wonder why he never wanted to give his own address? It almost sounds as though he didn’t want the police to have his address although he wanted to be the “big guy” concerned about crime.

    Another thing is that GZ “sings” out the beginning of many of his words. I remember the technician for the voice stress test mentioning this also. For example, he pronounces his last name as “Zzzzzzimmerman.”


  4. Xena says:

    LLMPapa uploaded a new video. It caused me to consider that someone did in fact, phone GZ and give him a head’s up on Trayvon entering that community. Along with this, GZ could not establish tan colored khakis from jeans or sweat pants. When I hear “jeans” I think blue in color.

    It might be possible that someone gave a description to GZ before GZ left the house; hence, why some people hear paper flipping in the background. GZ could have been looking at notes he wrote down.

    • whonoze says:

      Actually, it’s evidence that any tip GZ might have received would NOT have mentioned the color of the hoodie. He most likely first saw the hoodie when he first spied Trayvon by the mailboxes.

      But regardless of place, the fact that GZ could distinguish Gray from Black means Trayvon had to be in a fairly well lit area. Had he truly been acting suspicious, he would have been ducking into shadows, and GZ wouldn’t have been able to see any details of his clothing well before he began walking toward the truck.

  5. Malisha says:

    BettyKath: LOL = lots of love? That’s the SAME as “laugh out loud” in my book! 😆 😆 😆 😆

  6. Malisha says:

    Rachael, what is the ^5? I see it but I don’t speak techo. ❓

    • bettykath says:

      Malisha, I’m learning txt. It’s a high five!

      • bettykath says:

        Learning txt: A friend and I were exchanging emails. He responded with lol to everything. At first I thought he had a strange sense of humor. Then I was offended. Some of what I sent was definitely not humor, so I asked him why he was laughing at everything I sent. Seems he was sending “lots of love.” LOL

  7. Malisha says:

    Heck, even killin’ your own wife is not risk-free nowadays.

    • Xena says:


      Heck, even killin’ your own wife is not risk-free nowadays.

      Neither killing your own husband and claiming SYG. Judge Lester just denied Smithey’s petition for immunity. She now faces trial for 2nd degree murder.

  8. Malisha says:

    jm, the only way the Zim Team can pull the “whole thing” — meaning both criminal AND civil penalties — off is by prevailing at a SYG hearing. DO you think there’s any judge in Seminole County who’s gonna give Zim a SYG-ticket now? I don’t.

    That’s the one good thing about this right now. George cannot reach 51% likelihood that he acted in self-defense now; that train left the station the day AFTER the killing, when George declined having an expert or an X-ray to bolster even his bwoke nose story. Not that a judge wouldn’t have done it, if this story had never hit the press. Just that you can’t unring the bell and 75% of the American people know that George did not act in self-defense and that the right to kill Black kids is not a self-executing risk-free guaranteed right nowadays.

  9. Malisha says:

    jm, the funny part is that in the same conversation where the edited version has George saying, “he looks suspicious…he looks black,” he also says, ON HIS OWN, with no question pending:

    “These assholes — they always get away”
    “He looks like he’s on drugs or something”
    “Fucking punks”
    “Something’s wrong with him”
    “yep. He’s checking me out”
    “Shit, he’s running”
    “I don’t know what his thing is”
    “I don’t know where the kid is”

    So…good luck with the lawsuit, O’Mara. Try to stay away from Rule 11, if you know what I mean, Vern.

    • jm says:

      I was thinking that if Team Zimmerman pulls this whole thing off plus GZ is not convicted of any crime, killing black people in “self-defense” may be a money-maker for losers like GZ.

      GZ is likely living higher than he ever did in his adult life thanks to his website financial support from racists and gun-nuts. What’s to stop someone else from doing the same thing if George walks?

      This whole circus that Team ZImmerman has created is so ugly.

    • racerrodig says:

      George will insist on an interview to tell the world about the lawsuit. The lawyers for NBC stated “…Mums the word…”

      I’ll take NBC for a thousand please.

    • Jun says:

      I agree… It sounds like an easy win for NBC to me.

  10. Malisha says:

    Rachael, yes, civil procedure and criminal procedure are both taught in law school. That, however, does not mean that anybody knows anything about anything. In fact, a professor of Virginia civil procedure at George Mason University at one time was a sitting circuit court judge. He wanted to “get” a litigant who had not committed any crime, so first, he asked the prosecutor to charge her (but the prosecutor refused) so the judge himself made up a charge and mixed the criminal case into the civil case, held it himself without a jury, and convicted. On appeal, the Court of Appeals of Virginia said they would not hear the “criminal part” of the appeal because the litigant had only filed a civil appeal, not a criminal appeal. The Supreme Court of Virginia refused to consider the case altogether. So the litigant brought a federal habeas corpus whereupon a corrupt federal judge, hoping to save his buddy the state court judge from embarrassment, left it on his desk 17 months until the 12-month sentence was over, and then dismissed it as “moot.” Now, 25 years later, the order is still being enforced but it’s being called “civil only” because the criminal part is done with. So see how procedure works? It simply means that judges do whatever the Hell they want, but give excuses (procedural issue) to fail to do whatever they decide NOT TO DO.

    That’s what our courts have done for us. But they do teach procedure.

    I know a lawyer who once said, “the ultimate remedy at law is the shotgun.”

    • Dennis says:

      Judges can practically do whatever they want. I had a friend that was assaulted by someone and in court he tried to plead the 5th on the witness stand because he was in fear of his life. The stupid judge threatened to hold him in contempt and he was forced to continue his testimony out of fear of jail time and a criminal charge.

      I hate judges because they give lenient sentences to people just because of who their lawyer is. Just look at Lindsay Lohan. She refused to stay off drugs and out of trouble, and just recently committed a hit-and-run. Every single time she goes to court she gets the angel treatment by the court system.

      • @Dennis: You are so right. I work per diem in a drug treatment program and the clients do not receive a slap on the wrist. You either comply or back to Riker’s Island or your mandation source! If the courts would mandate Lindsay Lohan, they may be doing her a service like saving her life and some innocent family? If these judges held these spoiked brat movie stars accountable, their lives may be saved!

  11. WHAT GALL!

    George Zimmerman to sue NBC over edited tape
    Attorney Mark O’Mara said the edits made his client “appear he is a racist.”


    George Zimmerman’s attorney said his client is considering a defamation lawsuit against NBC over the misleading edit of a tape that he said made his client “appear he is a racist.”

    In a statement released Thursday, Mark O’Mara said the repeated broadcast of Zimmerman’s edited call to a Sanford Police non-emergency line in March was “outrageous.”

    He blamed the news network for endangering Zimmerman’s life.

    • jm says:

      “George Zimmerman’s attorney said his client is considering a defamation lawsuit against NBC over the misleading edit of a tape that he said made his client appear he is a racist. He blamed the news network for endangering Zimmerman’s life.”

      I haven’t heard the tape but it seems Zimmerman was indeed profiling black males from previous phone calls to SPD and he endangered his own life by profiling, following, shooting and killing a black teen.

      I am growing to dislike the Zimmerman family, friends and O’Mara more each day for trying to become rich and famous for the killing of a black teen. They are beyond disgusting at this point.

      • racerrodig says:

        “I am growing to dislike the Zimmerman family, friends and O’Mara more each day……….”

        Yep, after all, his best friend said he’s “The most hated man in America” I certainly can’t argue that feeling.

        Since Osterman said he is Z’s best friend and Taaffe said he’s Z’s best friend, does this mean Frank “The Racist Tank” Taaffe will write a book and call it “He’s more hated than you think, I should know”

      • Dennis says:

        Looks like another pathetic defense tactic to siphon funds from anyone they can so that O’Mara and Zimmerman can continue to live the lifestyle that insults the Martin family’s existence.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Let them try to sue NBC, NBC will break them. Then will come court costs and perhaps a counter suit. Believe me, they’re going no where with this, it’s a non-starter.

    • Malisha says:

      What the Zim-team members forget is that there were no actual threats against Zimmerman’s life. They had a bounty out on CAPTURING HIM — like he was trying to do to Trayvon. All perfectly legal. Someone who thought he was “up to no good” and who considered him “suspicious” had every right to identify him, follow him, and notify police — and also, obviously, to question him and to ask if he had a problem. Hoe-Mee!

    • I never even heard the tape on NBC.
      When I first heard about this story I was outraged that a police dept. would let a killer go free the same night that the kiliing happened.
      It seemed as though they were just taking the word of the killer it was self defense.
      What kind of investigation can be conducted in a few hours?
      It just didn’t make any sense.
      I suspect more people were outraged by the Sanford Police Dept that they were about anything said on NBC.

      • racerrodig says:

        The investigation consisted of a statement by Lee that said to the effect “…we have nothing to dispute the lying shit’s, er, his story” That was it.

      • cielo62 says:

        TRUE THAT! I never heard the news clip, but I was aware of the police department’s INACTION that made me see red! I was ready to sign petitions, make petitions and hit my cellphone dial to get some action. GZ has made his own mess. I think he should clean it up.

    • Dennis says:

      I doubt the edited tape did the damage that O’Mara claims was done. Zimmerman endangered his own life by murdering an innocent teenager and not having any remorse for his actions. His supporters are living in the clouds; they don’t think the prosecution has any evidence to disprove his story. The reason why Zimmerman is going to lose is because he is the only surviving witness to the shooting. The jury would have to believe his story to acquit him, but he has told so many lies that they could not possibly believe anything he says at this point.

    • Dennis says:

      I was just reading about defamation, libel, and slander.

      It seems NBC could easily use this defense in court:
      “A defendant who transmitted a message without awareness of its content may raise the defense of “innocent dissemination”. For example, the post office is not liable for delivering a letter which has defamatory content, as it is not aware of the contents of the letter.”

      Even if Zimmerman obtains a bunch of money from NBC, he is going to be sued into the ground by Martin’s family for the wrongful death of Trayvon. The burden is not as high in civil court so they will most likely win,. He has zero chance for winning an immunity hearing that would bar him from criminal and civil liability for Trayvon’s death.

      • Xena says:


        Even if Zimmerman obtains a bunch of money from NBC, he is going to be sued into the ground by Martin’s family for the wrongful death of Trayvon.

        As long as GZ is out on bond, he cannot open a bank account.

        Also, IF MOM proceeds, it will be in federal court. If he can’t issue a subpoena properly pursuant to Florida state rules, he’s going to have problems in the federal system.

        IF NBC decides to settle rather than prepare motion for summary judgment, GZ’s immunity hearing and trial will be over and he will be behind bars, spending the settlement in commissary.

      • bettykath says:

        NBC did an edit that changed the meaning of what GZ said. They removed the question by the dispatcher asking if the suspicious person was white, Black or Hispanic. The suggestion that GZ offered the description on his own instead of responding to a question changed the tone of GZ’s words.

    • Xena says:

      He blamed the news network for endangering Zimmerman’s life.

      But … but … but, GZ had already abandoned his job and home and was tucked away cozy at Osterman’s house within hours after he killed Trayvon.

      Outside of the local area, no one knew what had happened. It’s more of that “clairvoyant” tendency I suppose; i.e., GZ looked into his crystal brain and said, “My life is endangered so I better abandon my job and residence now so I can sue media networks later for endangering my life.”

      • Dennis says:

        I agree. The evidence shows that Zimmerman was already in fear of his life right after the shooting. I think it is obvious that he knew the shooting was not justified and that the black public would lynch him for his crimes. I remember the shooting of Oscar Grant in Oakland, CA. The officer fired a fatal shot into unarmed Grant while he already had to police officers on top of him. There were tons of riots over this. Bottom line is that when you kill an unarmed black person in America, the black public is going to lynch you. Zimmerman knows he executed a black kid, and that is why he is living a life in fear. I don’t think he is in any serious danger. He should be more worried about a possible life in prison sentence.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          dennis – oscar grant’s family and ours were friends at that time. my husband commuted to work every day with oscar’s uncle. that situation was tragic indeed.

      • Xena says:

        Dennis, I do not disagree with your comment in general, but think back to the evening of 2/26/12 and what GZ knew or didn’t know to justify his fear.

        When he left the police station in the wee hours of the morning, he knew nothing about Trayvon. The only connection between Trayvon and that community, as far as GZ was concerned, was that Trayvon came there to case houses. GZ was more than likely to think of himself as a hero, preventing a burglary.

        What time did he leave the police station, around 3 a.m.? He and Shellie picked up some things from their residence and went to Osterman’s. Clearly, that denotes a purpose of not returning soon.

        Okay, so some people think I’m off my rocker with the theory that GZ used NW as a cover-up for crime, but it is a possible explanation for GZ’s immediate fear. IMO, GZ threw the guy at Taaffe’s house under the bus. IMO, Trayvon was suppose to be a suspect and the person caught and charged was suppose to be a case of mistaken identity. GZ’s association with the person seen at Taaffe’s house and Trayvon is just — too — weird.

        IMO, GZ was not fearful and went immediately into hiding due to concern for repercussions for killing an unarmed teen. He hid because of fear of SOMEONE who he was already afraid of.

        Then too, there is that $135 spent at the U.S. Postal Service, paid for with money GZ borrowed from his parents while GZ resided with Osterman. That’s a lot of money to spend at the post office and could have been to ship lots of stuff to multiple places — such as selling stolen property through eBay.

      • He could not have felt his life was in danger right away – he claimed self-defense at the scene, yet, paid no never mind to letting his wife drive the vehicle back to the house alone. May not seem like much. But, it seems everyone knew his vehicle from his patrols. If he tries to sue the network because they portrayed him a racist, would he have to prove he was not a racist in order that he win the civil suit. So, if he wins the suit, even settled out of court, does this mean they agree he is not a racist. Is he starting to try to counter-balance a possibly upcoming FBI charge of a hate crime. Wonder.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          I believe it was public opinion that labeled him a racist first. Seems that before that happened, everyone thought he was white. He took pains to create that impression, all anyone has to do is show why he would do that. Then, note the amount of support he had, that dropped off precipitously after he announced how proud he is of his Hispanic Heritage. All of which, goes to show that he had a keen awareness of racial issues.

    • Jun says:

      LMAO Omara is so dumb. What is he going to say?

      The bottom line is NBC is a media conglomerate and it is their job to broadcast news, and a killing of an unarmed teenager is important news to society and the community.

      Zimmerman made his disparaging comments while he is heard stalking an unarmed teenager with candy.

      Zimmerman identifies the person as black.

      Zimmerman than was heard saying something that sounded like a racial slur.

      Zimmerman then killed the unarmed teenager.

      Zimmerman himself created that impression of himself.

      NBC’s edit did not change that impression one bit or create any false impression.

      Omara can not argue against something that Zimmerman caused himself by making those comments and his actions of that night.

      Then the NBC lawyers can hang Omara and Zimmerman’s credibility out to dry and prove to court they are just trying to scam money and this suit has nothing to do with damages.

      I have no clue what NBC will do but it seems like a rather easy case to win against Zimmerman and why would they bow down to someone that killed an unarmed kid walking home with candy, as that would lose their station lots of respect and business.

      • Xena says:

        If there is any party that GZ should sue for presenting him as a racist, it’s Frank Taaffe. Taaffe’s dog whistles in the media clearly conveyed that he thinksTrayvon had no rights. Trayvon was suppose to transform into a Steppin Fetchit to prevent a creepy looking, overweight, skinhead, grown behind man with a gun from killing him just for walking home alone.

        • I saw the video of Frank Taaffe stating that, “If only TM had answered GZ questions. TM was a guest here etic,. etc,!” I then looked at the video again and stated to my daughter this: FT is so stupid he just revealed on video that GZ was actually talking to TM. GZ has never stated that he was talking to TM in any way. He states that TM confronted him. I couldn’t belive it, and it also sounded like FT was there when this was going on? HMMMM??? Why was TM suppose to defer to GZ? Is this 1955 Alabama, Jim Crow era? FT. The father of the year who wished death to his military daughter. What a horrible man! His daughter denounced him and GZ.What does FT care? GZ is not his flesh and blood, SHE IS! He should love her more than anything in this world!

      • racerrodig says:

        BINGO !!

      • Xena says:

        @Deborah Garner-Moore. Taaffe demonstrates the classic believe of racial superiority that believes Blacks have no rights. Trayvon was suppose to know “his place” and submit to a strange grown man looking like a skin-head who was following him. Either that, or it becomes a “coon” race of the days of old. Doesn’t surprise me that GZ said f’ing coons when Trayvon ran.

        • You are absolutely correct! TM didn’t know his place. I heard that stated several times on HP when I was posting over there. It is absolutely appalling that we have individuals who have minds that reside in the 1940’s south. My parents grew up during the Jim Crow era In South Carolina and my dad to this day, tells me horror stories of black men and women who were routinely victimized by racist whites in the south, and they all were spoke just like Frank Taaffe.

          The rules of the racist caste system called, “Jim Crow” and one of them was assuming a subservient stance, looking down to the ground and never in the eyes of a white man or woman. You always defered to a white man and woman. Dad stated that you complied to those rules because it was the law of the land it meant your life and you followed those rules at that time during the 1940’s and 50’s.

          • Xena says:

            @Deborah. That is the America I think about when hearing people say they want their country back. My maternal grandfather who came off the boat from Scotland was lynched by the KKK for having a black Scottish wife. (There’s history behind “black Scots” and the Spanish, in addition to the Black coal mine workers in the UK.)

            My mom was 5 yrs old at the time. One thing she often said is that only death in the family would get her to step foot out of Wisconsin or Illinois. She wouldn’t even go to Indiana, ground zero for the KKK. My dad is a “gisey” from Louisiana. Had he not come to Wisconsin, my parents would not have met and I would not exist, so there is some good that comes out of evil. 🙂

          • @Xena: What an awe inspiring story! You must give me the history of your family. I have never heard of a black Scottish individual! Please send me some links so can be up on the history of the black Scotts! I cannot imagine what your grand-mother endured while losing her husband was enough to the despicable KKK and then facing discrimination herself? When you get the chance, please fill me in on your family history. It sounds so very interesting.

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Yes, you had no choice but to follow those rules, since breaking them would mean that they would somehow, sometime, somewhere get back at either you or your family. It was sort of like insulting a mobster. If you did that, you and your family would be in big trouble, because you’d never know who would strike, where, or when, you only knew it would be coming.

            Lots of people who speak and/or write historically about these issues, fail to realize the reality of having to live in a society where, you were potentially surrounded by people who would feel justified doing evil things, not just to the offender, but to their family as well. And, to make matters worse, there would be no “come back” on them for doing evil things to you or your loved ones.

            If they didn’t like your attitude, they could rape your sister, beat up your brother, steal or destroy your property and walk around town laughing at you. If you went to the sheriff he’d charge you with some crime and send you to prison. There simply wasn’t a way to win.

            Historians and others, paint this neat picture where the “resisters” had mainly, only to fear for themselves. Which, of course, tends to make it “inexplicable” that people would put up with such fare for so long. Racists love it because, they can use this view to make blacks seem somehow cowardly, afraid to stand up for themselves.
            When, in fact, nothing could be further from the truth.

      • bettykath says:

        When I heard the NBC clip I thought GZ was using “he looks Black” as an excuse for him being a “suspicious” person. It sounded racist. When I later heard the NEN tape, I realized that was not the case, that GZ was responding to a dispatcher question. It DID make a difference to me. It does mean that what NBC presented was taken out of context and thus changed the meaning.

        As the professor pointed out in a previous thread, use of the NBC edit in court by the prosecution would probably result in the defense objecting and the judge agreeing that the entire exchange be entered into evidence.

      • Jun says:

        They havent filed the suit yet and I am not a judge but it sounds silly to think that the NBC edit was the sole reason for his danger and it made him look racist. I personally disagree that the edit caused damage. The editing does not imply at all that Zimmerman is racist. They simply used his statements and his statements were unaltered. I disagree that it made him look like it was an excuse for suspicion. Even if they had the dispatch ask him if he was white, black, or hispanic, it could still lead to discussion of whether it was racially motivated because its the simple fact he is using deluded judgement toward a black person and Zimmerman yelled out a remark that sounded like a racial slur. It is not the description that he is black, it is Zimmerman’s own actions towards a black person (his statements and his actions) that lead people to consider racism. Simply stating someone is black, in itself is not racist.

      • Exactly as RZ Junior says – why is it only the white man that has to prove his credibility. Anyone know – does GZ, if the suit does go to court, would GZ have to prove he is not racist to contradict the networks leaving an impression that he is a racist.

      • Xena says:

        @Deborah Garner-Moore

        @Xena: What an awe inspiring story! You must give me the history of your family. I have never heard of a black Scottish individual!

        See. This is a great big world with a diversity of people who, if we get to know each other, we find that we have more in common and can appreciate the heritage of all. 🙂

        Check out Tony Osabo. He’s a famous Black Scot actor. The are some Youtube vids that follow his career. He was born in Glasgow, Scotland. (Glasgow is my mom’s maiden name, btw.)

        I would love to share my family history but not on a public board. There are hater/trolls who like knowing personal info so they can twist it into something ugly. I prefer using my time doing something constructive, if you know what I mean.

        • I hear you sister! Nothing surprises me with the trolls on here. I had to read a few myself and block them! Right to me at debgirl12000@aol.com! I am just beyond fasinated by your family tree! I don’t know what I am talking about! Travelling all over this world as a soldier, I encountered black people in every part of this earth!

    • racerrodig says:

      “He blamed the news network for endangering Zimmerman’s life.”

      I’d like to see proof of that !! Pppfffftt !

      • Jun says:

        LMAO Omara can not prove any of that. I am fairly sure he hopes NBC gets scared and settles out of court. I dont think NBC will since the lawsuit is frivolous. I am sure NBC can also countersue stemming from damages of the frivolous lawsuit.

        • Check out the wonderful video by Trent Sawyer on this very same subject. He made a video a few days ago, in fact on why GZ hid out at Ostermans home when news of this case had not made the national news as of yet. GZ was hiding out because he had shot a kid and knew his ass was grass! If GZ was so afraid for his life, why doesn’t he sue Fox News who reported about The New Black Pantherswhich had put a bounty on his fat head! Why isn’t he suing them?

  12. Malisha says:

    Thinking about it, I agree that O’Mara’s ploy was to get people to think that Trayvon Martin had something to hide. The whole pro-Zim lobby and Zim himself have assumed that Trayvon was a “suspect” BECAUSE they are suspicious of him, and thus, they still fail to feel “on the defensive” and still believe Trayvon Martin should be on the defensive, even in the media war! It goes beyond hubris into psychubris! (Like that word? I coined it!)

    But in answer to the general question of why the prosecution would “settle” now that they have nearly all the pieces on THEIR side of the game, here’s my guess:

    If there is a trial, the defense absolutely will do its utmost times ten. So the prosecution will HAVE to bring out all its evidence. It will not be able to just throw the case or ride it out being smug. IF the prosecution has to reveal everything it has (and remember, BOTH prosecution and defense opposed ANY of the evidence dumps going public, and Lester overruled them both) there are going to be problems for people other than George, among them, for instance:

    Chief Billy Lee


    Norman Wolfinger

    Probably Tim Smith

    Probably one EMT if not more than one

    Probably Osterman

    Possibly Ayala

    Someone in the homeowner’s association because prior complaints made to police about George patrolling while armed were made

    Possibly Patty Mahany because she’s been way too involved

    Possibly Taaffe — someone in a white shirt might have been out there that night

    Maybe Robert Zimmerman Sr.

    Maybe one or both of the original two lawyers who represented George when he was in hiding at Osterman’s house

    But my guess is that it’s mostly Wolfinger and the SPD who are the most vulnerable and if ALL the prosecution’s evidence has to come out, it is going to become very obvious that the police and the prosecutors deliberately and knowingly tried to cover up a murder. AND that the police were aware, or should have been aware, ahead of time, that George presented a threat to the residents of RTL. AND that witness tampering, witness intimidation, witness discouragement and other “fouls” occurred in the days, weeks and months after the preventable, and even predictable, killing.

  13. Vicky says:

    Please forgive typos in my comment above. *School District…”regarding” not rebating school records.

  14. Lonnie Starr says:

    Oh, I had it wrong the martial artists… Oh here:
    A Martial Artist looks at the Zimmerman/Martin Murder Case

    Stateoftheinternet has this goodie up on youtube also see his “5%” vid:


    • Trent is absolutely right and he tells it like it is. The Z camp will spin all they want within the public forum. Ultimately, they will all be taken to task in a proper court of law, as should be. How many murders will admit guilt, really.

  15. LLMSPapa says:

    Tuesday morning, at 5:54, I was blessed with the arrival of my fourth beautiful granddaughter. There’s now an “S” proudly being added to my online nic!

    • Xena says:

      Congratulations LLMPapa!!!!

    • Congratulations! What a happy time for you and your family! Let us know how the parents are doing and when you come back to earth, tell us about the new little one in the family!! Are you the infamous LLMPapa before you added the S, who posted all of the genius video’s on Youtube? I cannot believe it! I feel like a giddy teenager! LOL! I am in awe of you and let me thank you for your contribution to society and what you are doing on behalf of the Martin family!

      Go on with your bad self! Enjoy your new grand-baby! I hope you will grace Professor Leathermans Blog here. The Professor is a genius and a wonderful humble man. He is so intelligent, so classy and so kind. The posters here are all wonderful, intelligent as well, and I learn so much from them. I am so blessed to be here and we welcome someone of your calibur here as well! God bless you!

  16. thejbmission says:

    Good morning All,
    I love this article. I’ve never been a big fan of character evidence either. This method of digging up past discretions has always bothered me.
    Professor, in your article you mentioned..

    O’Mara issued the subpoenas pursuant to the civil rules that do not require approval. That was a rookie mistake since Zimmerman’s case is a criminal case.
    Since O’Mara handles a mix of civil and criminal cases, he should be familiar with both sets of rules and the judicial-approval requirement for subpoenas in criminal cases.

    All I can say is “wow”. Do you believe O’Mara was trying to pull a fast one here? The only benefit of this rookie mistake that I can find is that he hoped that the school receptionist or whoever handles these matters would mistakenly hand over Martin’s school records. I applaud whoever caught this faux pas. Not many people question subpoenas. And if he had them, what would he do with them? Mistakenly plaster them on the internet? Hmm..
    So here’s another “rookie” mistake for O’Mara — similar to the mistake of forgetting to hand over GZ’s passports. I was surprised that Judge Lester accepted his excuse for that mistake, “he forgot”.
    Maybe O’Mara will be a guest speaker for the next ADHD conference if they have one? Just sayin..

    • Malisha says:

      Lawyers routinely make every sort of ridiculous error; and at times even if they do things perfectly correctly, bureaucratic errors down the line make messes out of stuff too. But there is no chance any logical person would think that a hastily served subpoena on a SCHOOL involved in the Trayvon Martin case would result in a quick delivery and public dump of Trayvon Martin’s high school records. I mean, HA HA HA HA HA is the best I can give the chances. First the person served would contact the school’s counsel who would thereupon contact outside counsel who would thereupon contact God.

      Another thing: if a high school kid gets arrested for a crime and even prosecuted and sent to Juvy, there is privacy attached. So is it likely that a kid gives up all his privacy just by getting himself killed in a silly thug manner, simply by viciously assaulting a white guy he has mistakenly profiled and inexcusably blamed for centuries of oppression and prejudice? I think not.

      IF O’Mara served the wrong kind of subpoena I’ll bet it was because someone in his office goofed up rather than because he thought the ploy would get him a windfall. I could be wrong; “One never knows [with lawyers] do one?” * (attribution = Fats Waller, “Your Feets TOO BIG!” 😎

      • CherokeeNative says:

        I agree Malisha – this is a clerical mistake and not some evil ploy. Simply put, O’Mara is busy making the media circuit and isn’t paying close enough attention to the minor details, such as issuing subpoenas, and leaving that to the paralegal and/or legal assistant to handle. Criminal and civil procedure are not taught in law school and an attorney is only as good as his paralegal or legal secretary in that respect – proper use of forms, timely filings, calendaring deadlines, etc. are the paralegal’s and legal secretary’s forte’ not the attorney’s – although the attorney is ultimately responsible for what comes out of his office. Someone in O’Mara’s office got a tongue lashing over this blunder you best believe but O’Mara is the one wearing the mud. LOL

      • rachael says:

        I disagree with you on one aspect CherokeeNative – Criminal and civil procedure most certainly are taught in law school, with civil procedure a requisite first year law student course.

        With that said though, having just finished civil procedure for my paralegal studies, I do agree that the paperwork involved is delegated to the legal secretary or the paralegal, even though he maintains ultimate responsibility.

      • thejbmission says:

        Hi Malisha,
        Thank you for your response. I appreciate your indepth knowledge on this subject. I’m no legal eagle nor do I know the way things work in school systems regarding student records.
        But what I do know is; this is Florida. 😉 Nuff said. And stranger things have happened. How do I trust a guy like MOM who would mistakenly “forget” to hand over GZ’s passport which he “forgot” he had?? That’s an awful lot of forgetfulness, don’t you think? Is it possible that O’Mara knows someone on the school board who might play dumb? Is there a chance that there’s dishonesty in the justice system? Hmm..Well we can save that one for another day. LOL

      • Vicky says:

        People who work in the administrative offices at schools are well versed in handling a subpoena duces tecum and follow specific policies and procedures In compliance with the FERPA and state law before handing over confidential student records. Failure of a school to comply with FERPA can result in loss of federal funds and/or civil liability. Federal law requires that the party of whom records are sought must be notified in advance of releasing records. At this point, the family can file a motion to contest the subpoena.

        O’Marah didn’t file the wrong type of subpoena. He filed the only type availabe to him under the purposes for which he is seeking the records. He knew good and well the school wouldn’t immediately hand over the records. He also knew the school would notify Trayvon’s parents. Although he might somehow believe Trayvon’s school records were pertinent to GZ’s defense, i think he was banking on Trayvon’s parents objecting to the release, which would result in public perception that there is something to hide. if he manages to gain access to the records, my guess is that the judge will seal the confidential records from public disclosure.

        I am providing a link to Dade County ScoolmDistrict policy manual rebating the release of student records.

        Click to access student_records.pdf

      • CherokeeNative says:

        @Rachel – I knew I was going to hear back on this aspect so far as, yes, they teach procedure to a limited extent, and by the time they are out of law school, that first year is merely a blur. Ask any first or second year attorney and they will tell you that they may know an answer to a complaint is due in 30 days from service, but they do not know what the deadlines are for filling or responding to a motion for summary judgment; they don’t have a clue which for to use in San Diego Superior Court versus Pinellas County Superior Court. I am not saying they cannot pick up the same set of rules and procedures and figure it out themselves, but the truth is, that is the purpose of the paralegals and legal assistants and attorneys rely upon that extensively. Just sayin….this was a clerical mistake that when push comes to shove, was the paralegal’s or legal assitant’s error that O’Mara has to take responsibility for. Peace.

      • rachael says:

        Excellent Vicky. This is all such an ugly mess.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Schools and other institutions are not dummies, they have legal departments to which legal correspondence is sent for review. They don’t leave legal matters like responding to subpoenas to secretaries or receptionists. Only someone like say, a piano teacher working from home, might respond on their own. Most professionals will seek legal advice before answering any legal request. MOM’s request had zero chance of getting an answer without some legal review. MOM is used to private people responding quickly to subpoenas without running to a lawyer, because of the added expense.

      • Xena says:

        Just sayin….this was a clerical mistake that when push comes to shove, was the paralegal’s or legal assitant’s error that O’Mara has to take responsibility for. Peace.

        Yes. One of the first things I learned was to ALWAYS, ALWAYS check the Rule or statute that petitions are brought under, and always check rules for issuing of subpoenas. It was really a simple thing for MOM to correct. Send correspondence informing that the subpoenas were issued under the incorrect rule and are withdrawn. Obtain a stipulated withdrawal with the prosecution. Prepare the subpoenas under the correct rule and present them to the court.

        MOM’s oopsy has misled GZ’s supporters to believe that he already has Trayvon’s school records, as they are posting on the internet how he should accidentally drop them so that they become public.

  17. SearchingMind says:

    @ Xena: RE: The motives of Zimmerman Jr.

    Xena, you have such an awesome analytical mind and power of imagination. But, I have to disagree with you this time regarding the motives of Zimmerman Jr.

    I think that Zimmerman Jr. has other motives for his current media blitz. And those motives are far from being money, etc.

    IMO, the Zimmermans are now not just worried, they have in fact started freaking out. Did you review Zimmerman Jr.’s Pierce Morgan CNN interview and compared it with his latest statements/”interwies”? Did you notice any substantial changes regarding the claim that GZ was receiving heavy blows from Trayvon; that Trayvon was repeatedly bashing the head of GZ on the concrete sidewalk; that GZ was about to lose his consciousness; that GZ had to shoot Trayvon because GZ was just a moment away from being in a wheelchair for the rest of his life wearing baby-dippers and being spoon-fed by his younger brother (if his head was bashed just one more time on the sidewalk)?
    However, with the release of the lab reports, Zimmerman Jr. has also made the same calculations you and others have already made in your comments on former threads on this blog and came to the same conclusions: e.g. no DNA of GZ on Trayvon’s hands, fingernail scrapings and (the cuffs of his) sleeves means: no fight between Trayvon and GZ, no bashing of GZ’s head on concrete sidewalk, no blows to the head- and face of GZ, no fear of imminent serious bodily harm and/or death, GZ is lying about ‘what happened’, etc. No Trayvon’s DNA on the gun and the holster means: Trayvon and GZ did not struggle for the gun; the claim that Trayvon reached for GZ’s gun is unsupported by evidence, etc. The perfect straight shot through the chest of Trayvon means: Trayvon was NOT on top of GZ straddling him, etc. when the shot was fired. The direct opposite (i.e. Trayvon was on top of GZ) is scientifically (ballistics/physics) impossible. Etc. GZ could not have used the elbow of his right hand to pin Trayvon’s left hand to his (GZ’s) right rib-cage and use the same right hand to grab a gun holstered on his (GZ’s) ‘behind’, aim and shoot Trayvon straight, without any angles, through the heart, etc.

    Zimmerman Jr. IS NO IDIOT. He read the evidence and understood that the heavy wheels of justice are crushing through the walls of GZ’s defenses like the panzer and closing in fast on him. GZ is going down and the Zimmermans realize that [now]. There is panic in the family. The Zimmermans need a game-changer quickly – i.e. turning the case into “white guilt” versus “black suffering”, turning GZ into a victim of “white guilt” and the sacrificial lamb to appease perceived institutional racism against blacks, effectively carving up the jury pool along racial lines and turning Trayvon into the profiler. Whether or not this strategy will work is a different matter. But that appears to be their current strategy. George is in deep sh**t. And Zimmerman Jr. and Sr. know that. They have to do something.

    • Xena says:

      Xena, you have such an awesome analytical mind and power of imagination. But, I have to disagree with you this time regarding the motives of Zimmerman Jr.

      I think that Zimmerman Jr. has other motives for his current media blitz. And those motives are far from being money, etc.

      Oh, I don’t disagree with you. Junior’s reasons are multi-layered. There is also a chance that he might know some evidence the State has shared with O’Mara that has not and will not be released to the public, such as GZ’s phone records.

      IMO, if Junior wants to turn this into a game-changer of “white guilt” v. “black suffering,” then he had better speak up in his media interviews for GZ’s supporters to stop their racial slurs, bigoted comments, and dog whistles on the internet. Each time they refer to Trayvon as a “thug,” they support the charging affidavit that GZ profiled Trayvon.

      • CherokeeNative says:

        Thanks everyone for your perspectives on this issue, because I really don’t have a clue as to what the “prize” is supposed to come from this recent media blitz. I tend to agree with the contention that the Z family is trying to keep this case about “racism” – I believe they have come to realize that this is slowly losing steam in the media. If it falls off the “top 10” news items in the media, there is that chance that the case will get lost in the shuffle of all the other criminal murder cases pending in the state of Florida and GZ will be treated just like any other murderer….no cameras in the courtroom, etc. I recall back from the jail tape recordings GZ’s discussion of Judges being appointed versus elected – I tend to think the Z camp is of the impression that if the media focus stays on the case because of racial issues, and fear of riots, etc., the judiciary will treat the case differently in terms of rulings, etc. because of its high-profile nature. Personally, I would love to see this case lose all steam in the media – although I look forward to watching any NON-SYG hearing and the inevitable trial, I believe loss of interest in the media would be to the prosecution’s benefit although I am not entirely sure why.

        I will say that I find it odd that RZ Jr. has the funds to travel about the US to make these interviews when supposedly everyone is broke and begging for money. I believe this blitz is being funded by the defense funds through O’Mara and that tells me that the defense funds are no where near depleted. I also find it odd that O’Mara is no longer announcing the balance of the defense funds….do they have a committed group or entity that is fund the monthly expenses?

      • racerrodig says:

        Your 1st paragraph – – – BINGO !! I agree with SM’s take to an extent other than “Zimmerman Jr. IS NO IDIOT.” I think he is or he would say what he say’s. He’s a puppet.

        The “white….white…white…” mentality is there for sure.

        I have a few Federal Agents as friends / customers and one is my sons Godfather. Trust me…..more evidence….

        • jm says:

          I agree RZ, Jr is an idiot.

          Listening and watching RZ Junior I realized he is an idiot just like GZ, the only difference is he makes a better appearance than GZ.

          In summary, RZ Junior doesn’t look like an idiot, he just sounds like one. As more evidence of him being an idiot, he risks his reputation and credibility to further the lies of his brother or he actually believes the lies. Lose-lose.

      • Xena says:

        @ racerrodig,

        I have a few Federal Agents as friends / customers and one is my sons Godfather. Trust me…..more evidence….

        I think you hit the proverbial nail on the head. I won’t get into how I came to know certain people, but those folks can infiltrate and get information with the blink of an eye.

        GZ’s safe house is not safe from federal eyes and ears, if you know what I mean.

        Then too, I remember that the 911 call with the screams was given to the FBI, not to determine who was screaming, but to enhance in effort to determine what GZ was saying to Trayvon while Trayvon was crying out for help, in pain, and begging for his life. GZ’s voice is distinctly heard cursing, while Trayvon was screaming.

        GZ’s financial supporters have postured Florida’s SYG as the Jim Crow statute that replaces ropes with guns. Makes me wonder how many federal operatives have donated money to GZ’s defense fund with notes congratulating him for taking a “coon” off the streets?

      • Xena says:

        I will say that I find it odd that RZ Jr. has the funds to travel about the US to make these interviews when supposedly everyone is broke and begging for money.

        Most talk shows pay expenses for their guests and give them a thousand dollars for their pocket. Oprah did not give money to her guests but did pay expenses.

        With major news networks, they have a limo pick up guests and bring them to the closest studio where they conduct the interview via satellite feed. Then the limo takes the guest back home. IDK whether they give guests money for their pocket.

        All Junior would need is time off work. If he has more sense than Joe Oliver, he will not quit his day job to go on the media circuit to advocate for GZ.

      • racerrodig says:

        Xena….to your 2:34. I can’t post much of what I know from connections now. But on the other site, I could “predict” things, let the Zidiots attack me, then get the last laugh. Way back, I said “3 words…Security Camera Video” I saw that there were cameras and made my inquiries. I was told yes, they have Z on video, but not where yet. I was told state those 3 words. I stated DNA will make this case….I called it.

        The Federal Agents hate this guy, the NRA, loves him. I have been solicited by the NRA twice for a contribution for Z. Being a non – NRA gun owner, and son of a cop, I assume they found my number from a gun store ammo purchase which is required in NJ.

        I don’t think any Federal Operatives have donated other than the few who may be racists or just nuts. I could be wrong however. But what I know they know and is not public yet is a real hoot. The Zidiots refuse to accept many issues he has.

        Z’s CCW permit is legally invalid. He never took the classes and does not have the certifications. He actually applied for and got a refund for them by the State of Fl. That’s like driving without a DL then killing someone with your car…..it’s all on you. The refund is in the evidence dump. Did Da – Da intervene on that ?

        As far as being out of earshot, he’s not. I know that for fact.

        He’s Done……the only one who does not see it is Z.

      • Xena says:


        As far as being out of earshot, he’s not. I know that for fact.

        He’s Done……the only one who does not see it is Z.

        If his CC is invalid, no wonder it was not called for suspension like ShelLIE’s.

        Going back years ago, I learned value knowledge about federal investigation methods and tools that gives me confidence that they have more goods on GZ than the public can shake a stick at.

        I’ve read your other comments and yes, it is very easy to bait the Zidiots to ferret out GZ, Shellie, and Taaffe from the bunch. They are too stupid to know that their internet usage is traceable.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          If his ccw was invalid then he was already breaking the law by carrying a concealed weapon when he got out of his car! Meaning that he was a criminal when he stepped out of his vehicle, how can he claim he had a right to do anything after that? Every step he took was a separate crime in furtherance of yet another crime, that of stalking while in criminal possession of a deadly weapon.

          So there was “A real suspicious guy” in the hood, it was him!

          Could he have killed Travyon as a way to distract from his illegal possession of a weapon? The SPD has a history of racism, that’s a matter of public record, just read the news reports in the local papers.

    • jm says:

      “George is in deep sh**t. And Zimmerman Jr. and Sr. know that. They have to do something.”

      My question has always been why would they (any family member or friend) want to dig a lying murderer out of his own deep schit?

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      Let’s see if I get this right: Trayvon was laying in wait for GZ to make his weekly trip to the store, to do his family shopping. To cover this up, Trayvon cleverly went to 711 that night and purchased skittles and an iced tea to use as a cover for stalking GZ in his car in the rain, while he menaced GZ by following the truck on foot. Then, when the time was right, TM quickly jumped in front of GZ’s gun to make GZ the victim. Gee, I wonder why MOM never thought up this story? Not a hole in it that I can see! LOL, are they getting desperate or what?

      • racerrodig says:

        That’s the story on the other site almost verbatim now.

        We, and all of the investigators, all have it wrong. That poor ex-bouncer was set up by that wanna – be walker. It’s all so clear now. I think I’ll stand outside and try that.

    • cielo62 says:

      Searching Mind~ that was a fascinating point you made. Still, as dysfunctional as they are, why don’t they just finally cut all ties with george and let him hang himself with his own words?

      • racerrodig says:

        I wonder that same thing. One thing I learned many years ago was that you cannot apply logic to an illogical mind.

        What dog do they have in this fight is the question. Gun Rights, or more accurately…Gun Abuse Rights.

      • jm says:

        Could it be “dishonorable” for their family to admit GZ is a lying murderer who was raised by Robert Sr and Gladys, who may have seen signs of mental illness in GZ but ignored them, indirectly creating this monster who shot and killed an innocent teen?

        The Zimmerman’s are arrogant people who seem used to getting their way and claim to be “spiritual” so it probably would hurt their pride and their image to admit GZ is a lying coward who killed a black teen.

        • Robert and Gladys saw the sign of Mental Illness. They chose to ignore them unitl it escalated into the horrible murder of TM! They were to ashamed and embarressed to seek the help that their son truly needed. They tried to pass G off as anyone else, but we can see that G has some type of cognitive damage. G is also an alcoholic and he sounded high the night he shot TM but we will never know, since the inept SPD did not send him to the hospital for a drug test.

  18. Xena says:

    Omara has no case. Its a frivolous suit. The trial would last one hour.

    Trial? It will be dismissed on summary judgment. LOL

    Wonder what cause of action he is filing it under.

    • SearchingMind says:

      @ Rachael, Jun, Xena

      Anyone who wants to know what O’Mara will be doing better constantly read the conservativetreehouse (I know Rachael and Xena are doing that). For months, those guys have been calling, among others, for Trayvon’s school records and suing, among others, MSNBC, etc. O’Mara is just complying with the wish of the donors (who btw finally get the opportunity to strike back at the “liberal media”). Suing MSNBC will generate enormous enthusiasm among the donors and thus result in more substantial donations. O’Mara/Zimmerman are also hoping that MSNBC would settle out of court and hand them big chunks of money. This one is just about money. Good strategy, I might add.

      • rachael says:

        @SearchingMind –

        I totally agree with you. I do believe that the MSNBC was an unfortunate thing and I honestly do not blame GZ for being upset about it, but in the general scope of things, I don’t see that it really makes any difference. It really doesn’t change a thing and wouldn’t have (IMO) had they not edited it as they did. So other than monetary damages, there really is nothing else they can be looking for because again, there isn’t anything that would be changed or made whole because no “damage” was done. So yes, it is about money, trying to get money – as well as keep the supporters rabid. Whether it will work or not, IDK.

        I do know there are some at the outhouse though who seem to think that this will change everything and now the state will have to drop its case and I don’t know why on earth they would think that. Again, it changes none of the circumstances or evidence with regard to the case. But I guess if it keeps their money base revved up, it is good for them. But in the long run, it really makes no difference, or none that I can see.

      • Malisha says:

        Yeah I knew a guy who violated a court order and created a scene and his ex-wife called the cops, who issued a direct order to the guy to cease and desist and leave the premises, and he refused and the cops took him to jail and charged him with contempt of the order which was a misdemeanor in NY. The guy’s divorce lawyer, both corrupt and well connected, went to the courthouse next door and got a judge to “transfer” the criminal case into the divorce action — thus transforming a criminal charge into a civil action by some unconstitutional sleight of hand. Then the divorce judge dismissed it, predictably. THEN the guy sues the city and the cops for false arrest and they [phucking] SETTLE with him for $75,000 in spite of the fact that a cause of action for false arrest in NY can only be maintained if there is a “favorable decision” on the criminal charge for which the guy was arrested, and there never was one. The city gave the guy $75,000 which of course he used in the civil case to further his misconduct. For this guy, his one night in jail awaiting arraignment was worth $75,000 taken away from the police department in a city that needs police — moral bankruptcy all around. But it shows that if a defendant who really HAS done something wrong goes on enough of a lunatic offensive, he can benefit from, at least, cowardly and/or corrupt agencies playing ball with him. I hope NBC won’t do something like that and make me spend even more money on anti-nausea medications!

      • Jun says:

        I have feeling that Omara is taking the advice of Conservative Treefrog, and if it is true, he is an idiot. I agree with Xena it would probably get thrown out on summary judgement or if it even went to trial it would last an hour. NBC then could countersue Zimmerman and Omara for damages from wasting their time in court with their company lawyers and wasting their time as a business for this frivolous lawsuit. I feel NBC lawyers would eat Omara alive and he would not stand a chance. I am not NBC but my observation, they have a good case that it is frivolous and they should not bow down to the likes of Zimmerman.

      • Xena says:


        Anyone who wants to know what O’Mara will be doing better constantly read the conservativetreehouse (I know Rachael and Xena are doing that).

        Actually, I visit that site very little and only when necessary to quote them. There’s another way of knowing their conversations and agendas, which is by reading comments to Yahoo articles about GZ’s case. In general, their puppets repeat what is posted there in addition to the same arguments. They give the treehouse credit. On Yahoo, there is no moderation so they go all out with racial slurs, demeaning avatars, and racially hateful nicknames for parties involved.

    • thejbmission says:

      I hope so! It bothers the heck out of me that the Zimbo’s are trying to profit. Why don’t these people get jobs and stop moaning? If they’d keep their mug off of teevee than maybe nobody would recognize them.

    • racerrodig says:

      Yes it will. He suffered no loss and he is the one who uttered those words. It’s not like the altered call got him arrested or changed any facts or events.

    • racerrodig says:

      They hurt my feelings ? Just sayin’

  19. changsterdj says:

    Reblogged this on changsterdj and commented:
    This is a case I am following and I feel the defense is being low brow and dirty with this recent incantation.

      • Xena says:

        You know Rachael, I was just thinking about Junior’s racial diatribe on the Young Turks, and wondering if he has wind that the feds might be considering charging GZ with a hate crime. I mean, if O’Mara is planning to sue NBC for the edited 911 call, what damages are there? Their edited version did not result in GZ’s arrest. He had already quit his job and was tucked away nice and cozy at Osterman’s. Could this be a preempted strike?

        Can’t help but wonder what is happening behind the scenes?

      • Jun says:


        Omara has no case. Its a frivolous suit. The trial would last one hour.

        1) Zimmerman made defamatory remarks and slandered Trayvon on his NEN, as well as stalking a kid

        2) There was no false impression created. Zimmerman made his remarks. Zimmerman then identified the person as a black teen who turned out to be Trayvon.

        3) NBC and other news stations regularly edit footage to fit the program. NBC clearly stated that they edited the footage and the editing never changed any impression or created a false impression.

        4) Then all of Zimmerman’s statements he made can be used to attack Zimmerman’s credibility and testimony. Omara cant testify for Zimmerman, as the testimony, is Zimmerman’s, so he would have to take the stand. All of the evidence dumps from Sunshine laws can be used also to impeach Zimmerman.

        There are so many defenses to what they are claiming… the fact of the matter is NBC did not create a false impression, Zimmerman created that impression of himself to the public with his statements.

        My guess is the judge would throw it out and tell Omara not to waste his time.

      • thejbmission says:

        Thank you Rachael for the update. These Zimbo’s sure are sue happy and O’Mara seems happy to oblige.
        Xena asked, “Could this be a preempted strike? Good catch Xena! Maybe the FBI was able to ascertain the racial slur in the 911 call? Remember that little diddy he huffed under his breath when GZ when chasing Trayvon?

      • Malisha says:

        Now we’ll see what George claims are “damages” from the allegedly misleading edit (the most it did was minutely alter the context of what he really did). Are the “damages” that people considered George a racist? Did that cause him to lose his job? Did they INACCURATELY consider him a racist so that it was putting him in a “false light”? In fact, the real reason George DID say Trayvon looked real suspicious was that George IS racist and Trayvon WAS black, that is easily shown at least 51% (that’s all you need in a civil suit) by one single affidavit from Ibrahim Rashada. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! Or will George say his damages are that he got charged with a murder? NOW somebody with REAL subpoena power who has no need to pull their punches may step into the ring with Georgie Porgie and then look the Hell OUT! (The Prosecution wasn’t as eager to find all the information available because it wanted to avoid stepping on SPD’s toes.)

      • rachael says:

        Yes, those in the GZ camp are sue happy. Instead of GZ manning up and taking responsibility for his actions, they want him to sue everyone for everything. Next thing you know they will want to sue Trayvon himself for having the nerve to die in front of GZ, causing him mental anguish. I mean the nerve of him, dying in front of poor little sensitive George after he shot him.

        • jm says:

          To me it’s all smoke and mirrors to detract from GZ killing Trayvon.

          Pay no attention to the lying coward with the gun and his BS about God’s plan for him to kill skipping Trayvon, just focus on MSNBC, Trayvon’s school records, or how well-spoken RZ, Jr is, blah, blah, blah.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Have no fear that these media Goliath s have the necessary expertise to fend off MOM and GZ for a very long time.

      • racerrodig says:

        To all who chimed in on the lawsuit. Yep !! The Zidiot Nations wants the charges dismissed. They will be, against NBC, not GZ.

        As if Moron O’ Mara can hold a candle the a real legal team.

        In fact, the lawyers told the employees not to comment.

        Note to Z……………Listen real close…..the silence is deafening. In fact, isn’t it about time for another Z interview ??

  20. Xena says:

    ALRIGHT!!! The Young Turks posted it on Youtube!

    • ed nelson says:

      This guy “beggs the question” .

      What is the difference that is the delineation of what is: “so called: ” White “… and so called” ” Brown or Black…”?

      The brother is not a type of a human that would ever qualify to be… all that much of what you want for your daughter to bring home!

      No blonde hair, no Acquline features”. no good looking f’n chisled features… ! ( I hate to say it but my take on it… but he’s a Neanderthaler…! They live!!!!!! ( they forgot to go away, haha, they are in the ascendance…. Earthlings!!!!).

      These guys only got by in the Hispanic/Cuban arena, as, just a little more better than the Nig’s…. in the Caribean area!!!!

      Now you do know I only put that last phrase as a guide.

  21. Malisha says:

    Lonnie Star — Book — great idea.
    May I suggest a title: “Lonnie, Blog me UP”
    An edited book.
    Professor — got any extra time? ❓

    • Malisha said, “May I suggest a title: ‘Lonnie, Blog me UP'”

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      LOL. but I think we need to wait for a conclusion. Books without a conclusion don’t do very well. There should be plenty of time after the case is over to do an internet blogography of the case.

      • Malisha says:

        Lonnie S, my idea is one of those books with alternative endings, like the kids’ books where you “choose your ending”!
        If this, then that…
        If that, then this…
        and on and on, and some of it with real humor!
        I’m only half kidding. Many folks on this blog are actual writers.
        I can get a forensic psychiatrist into it, too. ❗ 💡

      • rachael says:

        Malisha, I think that is a really good idea. You can choose which GZ story to go with and choose the ending. It will lead to hours of intrigue with all the multiple choices.

    • racerrodig says:

      On the other site I did a “script” based on Star Trek and “Damage Control” by the Zidiot Nation.

      “Damage Control…Report…..”

      It ended with a ..

      “….but sir, there’s no intelligent life in the Zidiot nation and they’re fresh out of lies….”

      “There must be something that cane be done…”

      “I’m afraid not skipper…….there’s no broken nose and no sign of a head bashing….it’s too late captain”

  22. Malisha says:

    CherokeeN, I think they are trying to stir up sympathy for George (poor guy got profiled, nose-broke, damn near killed, forced to shoot some a55hole, racially prejudicially prosecuted just to please unruly Blacks, and NOW he’s being MISUNDERSTOOD!) so O’Mara and Corey can reach an agreement to let him plead while still avoiding a riot that would tear down the courthouse and the statehouse too — a riot of Blacks, Whites, and all others who think there just has to be some kind of law in the world.

    • jm says:

      “I think they are trying to stir up sympathy for George (poor guy got profiled, nose-broke.”

      I think they are doing a PR tour for $$$$$$.

      Regarding that broke nose, trying to stir up sympathy for a self-diagnosed broke nose that was never treated by ENT specialist and wasn’t diagnosed by x-ray, yet this fool claims that broke nose justified his brother profiling, following, confronting and shooting to kill Trayvon Martin.

      I could be biased but the Zimmerman family’s arrogant attitude doesn’t make me feel sorry for any of them and only makes me want GZ in prison for as long as the law allows, hopefully for life.

      • racerrodig says:

        “I could be biased…” Don’t even think that, seeing through the BS is not being biased. That’s what they want us to feel.

    • Fed-up taxpayer says:

      Sheesh, by the time the SPD photographed GZ’s nose about 2-3 hours post-shooting, there was NO swelling, just the little scab. GZ’s nose looked more bent out of shape in his employment ID photo. But keep telling us about the broken nose…

      GZ to Dr.’s PA: “EMT’s said it was broken”
      O’M to the grand public: “Reacted to having his nose broken”

      Endless public repetition about an allegedly broken nose so that it is assumed to have been broken…BUT WITH NO

      • Most of you know my opinions on the BS head bashing story from the jump. In all of my 22 yrs. as a Nurse, I have seen my share of young guys in NYC, who have had head injuries: heads bashed against a tree, the ground, punched, the wall, the concrete in Central Park, Prospect Park, Flushing Meadow Park, RIverbank Park, Van Cortland Park need I go on and GZ is the only individual who never opted to go to the E.R. for treatment of any kind!! Even those who do not possess any insurance. Most ot these people were unconscious or damn near coma status!! RED FLAG TO ALL OF US ESPECIALLY THOSE OF US WHO WORK IN MEDICAL!

        I also want to know this: Due to the repetitiveness of having his head bashed ::EYES ROLLING:: Why didn’t GZ have any neck and shoulder injuries???? GZ certainly would have sustained injuries! I don’t remember him c/o any neck, shoulder or back pain!! Your head is constantly being pulled back and forth he also has no hair on his head to grab onto) and you have no injury to your neck, shoulders or back? Who does this man think we are BTW? Born yesterday??? Cut out the BS GZ!

      • racerrodig says:

        Deborah G M…Funny you mention skull bashing and the related whiplash style injuries. I never had my head bashed on the concrete, but then again, neither has Z. But when everyone I know, without exception, has launched themselves from a moving bicycle onto any hard surface, the abrasions were never something pretty to look at.

        I played 4 years of HS football and 9 years of semi – pro football as a wide receiver and corner back. There were hits all of us would take, some that looked innocuous on game film, that made you want to turn in your jock strap forever. Neck soreness…you betcha !! I also drag raced for years. When I had cars that were in the 10 second and then in the low 9’s, I had to wear a neck collar by regulation. Glad I did. I don’t know what the G force is but the car covered the 1st 60 ft in 1.26 seconds. What is the effect to the skull as Z claims. If my neck was sore from my 10 second cars in the 1.35 range & I’m glad I went to a neck collar then, why does Z never say…”..damn Sam, my neck hurts..”

        I had abrasions from the dirt & grass playing football and baseball in the neighborhood. Why does Z say…”..I’m fine..just a broken nose, some ….um, 25 or so head bashes on the concrete, it’s just another day…..I’m fine!

        I saw a fight many years ago on a street in Phila Pa. and stopped to break it up. One of the participants did get his head bashed a few times, 3 or 4 and both admitted it. He was a bloody mess and could barely speak. He was taken to the hospital by the police who didn’t even want to risk waiting for an

        No, sorry Zidiot Nation, your here’s story does not hold water.

        • I feel your pain and I loved your post! You made some great points! I also just remember through the years young boys who came in to the wards with sports injuries from playing football and other sports and they wore helmets and they sitll sustained abrasions and sometimes contusions to their head.

          We all know that GZ lied about what had transpired that night. Even his actions after this crime were strange. His patting down the body,searching for a weapon, sitting on the body(?), his running his hands all over his head nervously and pacing back and forth and acting like neighbors Mary C. and Selma L. did not exist and he wouldn’t acknowledge their shouts of what was going on?

          (I thought GZ head was so severely injured) and yet, he could run his hands through his head which was witnessed by the aforementioned two women above?

  23. CherokeeNative says:

    So, help me out here – what is the motive for RZ, Jr. making the media circuit? Is it to make his parents and family members safe? Bring the NBPs out of hiding? Um, to make sure that no potential juror is left unscathed? The Z group had to sit down and plan this out – and who is financing the travel expenses of this supposedly broke help need money now family? What is the friggin point? I find it hard to believe this is a renegade sibling doing this on his own – Daddy Z and GZ are directly behind this…but what is the prize?

    • Jun says:

      Attempting to brainwash people is their plans. They want to poison the public perception with lies. None of the evidence states what Zimmerman states. They are no different from any other criminals or grifters. Notice anytime Zimmerman’s KKKlan of Taffe and such, they can never have a fair debate, they just scream, yell, insist without letting others talk (esp. Taffe). RZ Jr however has changed his story once the evidence came into light that George lied about all that headbashing deadly 100 pound kid nonsense but is sticking to the broken nose theory.

    • cielo62 says:

      CN~ the prize is more donations in cold, hard cash.

      • Malisha says:

        I also think that the Zim family is very oversensitive about being seen as right, as perfect, as blameless and as admirable. Zim-mamma was a screaming TYRANT by reports; Zim-pappa, although he was probably henpecked in the house, probably took out his rage on hapless defendants in the court system — unlimited power to do that, actually. Clearly Robert Junior and Georgie Shmorgie “Help me” Zimmerman had a vicious sibling rivalry going and Robert Junior won. These sorts, with families so dysfunctional that any information getting out of the home would give others a jaundiced view of them, tend to keep everything INSIDE forcibly. Nobody’s allowed to admit ordinary human foibles. Everyone is required to present to the outside world the view that this family is perfection itself: everyone good, perfect, religious, god-fearing, just, proper, clean, legal, straight, and superior. Lying becomes the regulatory drum-beat of the marching band that never stops. This is what it takes to produce a George Zimmerman. He can do no wrong because if he does, it reflects poorly on the perfect family. SHAME AND HORROR!!

        If a theory is true (We are the perfect family and therefore none of us does wrong) the contrapositive is true.

        The contrapositive of the theory “we are the perfect family an therefore none of us does wrong” is:

        “If one of us does wrong, we are not the perfect family.”

        That’s not allowed. Therefore, George is innocent. Those seeking to find fault with George are trying to destroy this family. They must not be permitted to do so. They are anti-white racists filled with hatred. They must be stopped.

        Q. E. D. ❗

        • jm says:

          Great analysis.

          I especially liked ” clearly Robert Junior and Georgie Shmorgie “Help me” Zimmerman had a vicious sibling rivalry going and Robert Junior won.” I thought it would probably be hard for GZ to have a better looking and smarter brother who got to be a Junior instead of a George. And then George has those crazy eyes and looks like he has had an ongoing weight problem.

          Too bad Robert Junior is a smug and obnoxious liar. I have seen way too much of him. I can’t imagine going on talk show circuit and lying for a family member who shot and killed an innocent teen, especially as more and more evidence shows the whole story behind the shooting was fabricated.

    • Xena says:

      So, help me out here – what is the motive for RZ, Jr. making the media circuit?

      IMO, there are several motives. Due to the timing just after Osterman promoted his book, I think Junior stepped in for competition sake or rather, to take interest and media slots from Osterman.

      Secondly, it’s to seek another source for financial donations. Logically, if his parents were getting donations so they could hide under a rock, they should be under that rock.

      Thirdly, it’s a distraction. Junior’s media assault comes after it was revealed that O’Mara goofed on the subpoenas for Trayvon’s school records, and ShelLIE’s CC license was being revoked. Taaffe has recent DUI charges, and so does ShelLIE’s mom. The idea is to let people turn attention from them and to him.

      IOWs, while the thieves and drunks are marching to the hill with their crosses,Junior picks up a cross as their savior with the hope that after their sacrifices, GZ will be forgiven for he knows not what he does.

    • RZ Jr. and Osterman want to get in on the fame game. After all, George Zimmerman is the most hated man in America! Well, according to them, anyway.

      • cielo62 says:

        “GZ the most hated man in America”? They must not know any Republicans! LOL!

      • racerrodig says:

        To the rest of us. “…the world” How does one say “He’s my best friend and call his book, and Z, “The most hated man in America” Why not “Misunderstood” of “In Self Defense”

        How about “It wasn’t my fault” and have a modified picture of “Jake Blues” pleading for his life with Carrie Fischer from the Blues Brothers movie.

        No, he has it right, then he makes us laugh with the bold faced lies. I see he sold 10 copies.

    • racerrodig says:

      I’d like anyone to tell us what other murderers panhandled on the internet for money. I’d never seen this before. But, hey, he owes the IRS about 70K next January. Oppps,

      This guy defines “Born Loser” and yet what is the attraction to the Zidiot Nation. Oh, my bad…….racists with an agenda.

  24. Okay – Here is my take on the Robert Zimmerman, Jr. interview on the Young Turks. I have been reading alot of comments on a number of blogs today and I get the RZ, Jr. angle now. He continues with the black, white thing, emphasizing that George was considered white by the media, yada, yada, yada.

    IMHO, his angle NOW is that Trayvon profiled George. Yes. That is why Trayvon bopped him in the nose after lying in wait for GZ to return to his truck. Trayvon committed a racially-motivated crime and GZ had to defend himself against the Racist known as Trayvon.

    Now, they are testing those waters — they WANT to make this about race. Unbelievable!!

    • Rachael says:

      WTH is with these people, always turning everything around? OMG!!! George saying Trayvon said all the things he said, did all the things he did, now his brother too? I wonder if there is a DSM IV Diagnosis,.mirror syndrome or something. Geez!

      • Malisha says:

        Rachael, “Mirror Syndrome” is a great phrase. What this is, actually, is “massive projection,” a symptom of both paranoid peronality and of deliberate sociopathic “blaming behavior” as in, “I didn’t do it; HE DID.” They ascribe all their own faults outside, to others.

        So now, you have this guy, the innocent killer, saying that Trayvon would have treated him in a loving and respectful manner, and thus would not have NECESSITATED HIS OWN KILLING, if only he had not profiled George as a “bad white man” who was guilty of centuries of oppression and injustice. By Trayvon defending himself against George’s approach and “breaking his nose,” he showed himself to be a racist would-be murderer, and thus, this is all about race. It’s about poor George being profiled as a bad white man who had to be punched and beaten and nearly killed. Don’t you see?

      • Fed-up taxpayer says:

        Rachael, I completely agree, from

        1. reversing who the “real suspicious guy” was (IMO it was the realgeorgezimmerman), to

        2. “he’s got something in his waistband” (when it was GZ who actually had something in his waistband), to

        3. the perverse reversal of who was screaming, and who was cursing the victim.

        ‘”Mirror Syndrome”: a Current Example’ sounds like a timely article.

        • jm says:

          It sounds like mirroring is exactly what GZ did when he created his story of what happened the night he shot and killed Trayvon.

    • During the short three minutes of the Young Turk interview with RZ Jr., did he answer any question. No. He only had those 3 short minutes to move his agenda forward. His tour is not about answering questions about his poor victimized brother.

      • Jun says:

        Funny how RZ JR has now dropped a lot of his story, now that DNA results have dropped. He’s obviously full of it

        • jm says:

          RZ Jr, still has a superiority attitude that is annoying which is not unlike smirking GZ on Hannity interview..

          As an aside, not that there is anything wrong with it, does RZ Jr gay? What does he do for a living?

      • Jun says:

        I think he is gay but he’s an asshole nonetheless and a liar and a dumb ass

        • cielo62 says:

          Being gay does not necessarily include any of those other features RZ Jr. has. Man, it sucks being a white hispanic gay person with THESE 2 in the pack!

      • Malisha says:

        Robert Zimmerman Jr. is said to be a lawyer but I can’t find him registered in any state bar association. I have checked. Anybody know more than that about him? I’m curious. In refusing to give a straight answer to a simple question he does SEEM like many lawyers I have met. (Professor, forgive me, but some of your colleagues — )

      • Rachael says:

        I thought RZ Jr is a lawyer lol.

      • Jun says:

        LMAO according to RZ Jr. White people have to always prove their credibility….

        No Robert, your lying ass manipulative brother has to prove his credibility… it has nothing to do with white people, just George

      • Xena says:

        According to Osterman’s statement that is in discovery material, GZ’s brother is gay. While that is no problem for many people, myself included, it does question the double-standard of the far Christian-right who support GZ. They misrepresent Trayvon’s parents and allege they did not properly raise Trayvon. Considering that GZ’s cousin disclosed sexual abuse along with Junior being gay, under different circumstances, those same far-right Christians would be smacking their Bibles at the Zimmermans.

        I know their play book. They would connect the sex abuse and homosexuality as immoral behavior of the parents. Make this a strong argument with the Zidiots and they will blame GZ’s sexual abuse on his cousin on Junior’s homosexuality — GZ didn’t want to be like him.

      • Xena says:

        There is a Robert J. Zimmerman Jr.practicing law in the State of Florida. He concentrates in bankruptcy. However, of all the sites for lawyer bios, the bio is absent for Robert J. Zimmerman Jr.

    • Xena says:


      IMHO, his angle NOW is that Trayvon profiled George. Yes. That is why Trayvon bopped him in the nose after lying in wait for GZ to return to his truck.

      That argument is what inspired me to coin a new word — “bigotvoyants.”

      “Not only are GZ’s fans clairvoyant, but in order for things to happen the way they describe, it requires that Trayvon also be clairvoyant. You see, before GZ got out of his truck, Trayvon would have to know that he would. According to the bigotvoyants, when Trayvon ran, he didn’t run to get away from GZ. Rather, he ran because he knew GZ would follow him and then he could attack GZ.”

  25. CherokeeNative says:

    Just an FYI – some pro-zimmerman dweeb has decided to use my avatar and handle over at the OS… Just wanted you to know that whatever you see posted over there under my name is not me. I’ve never registered at OS, nor have I ever posted on OS. Apparently the half-wit must be so impressed with my writing abilities that they want to be me. Nice compliment don’t you think? LOL Like I am supposed to get all riled up and all, when in actuality, I wouldn’t waste my time on the piece of trailer-trash. [Emoticon Pic of dog peeing on hydrant here.]

    • ShannonInMiami says:

      Yes CN, you are the special one alright! What an honor to be impersonated by feaken intellectual box of rocks! NOT!!!!!

      It’s an ongoing run-a-way train over there. And the Os does nothing about it!! They’ve copied me and sweetie and sky and donkey oh i could go on and on. and we’ve all complained to no avail.
      But everyone will know it’s not really one of us because it’s been pointed out there so much everyone knows about it already!

      • Xena says:

        Impersonation is habitually done on Yahoo comments. Yahoo’s TOS recognize impersonation as a violation, and their way of handling it seems to be nothing more than deleting comments by impersonators.

        One of the arguments by violators is that anyone can have the same handle. Where they stepped over the line however, was in using the same avatar.

        IL, LA, CA, and TX have laws for online impersonation and other states may have as well. If I understand it correctly, you can use the law in the state where the online site is located or hosted.

    • Jun says:

      Hi Ms Cherokee…

      Yes that happens a lot. Its the modus operandi of the Conservative Treefrog and the like. Example is their insistence that they have evidence “No Limit Nigga” is Trayvon when anyone with eyes who looks at the photos knows the facial structure is completely different, as well as the eyes and other features.

      • Xena says:

        Example is their insistence that they have evidence “No Limit Nigga” is Trayvon when anyone with eyes who looks at the photos knows the facial structure is completely different, as well as the eyes and other features.

        Yes. They have posted tweets from people saying they miss No Limit Nigga in effort to prove that is a handle Trayvon used. The problem is that those tweets are dated before 2/26/12.

        Any photo of an arm of a Black man with a tattoo has been represented on that site as being Trayvon Martin’s arm.

        Along with this, someone claimed to obtain a cover of Trayvon’s obituary. I saw it doing a Google image search and immediately recognized it as a fraud. It has gang symbols in the background — a red rose behind his ear and skull and cross-bones — clearly photoshopped.

      • racerrodig says:

        Not to mention the tattoo’s

    • CherokeeNative says:

      Thanks all – pretty sure it’s the same dufus that has been banned multiple times from our site…he does have an infatuation with us. Just wanted everyone to know I am not, nor have I ever, posted on OS.

      • ladystclaire says:

        @Xena, it’s so sad, that people can get away with doing BS like this to this kid’s memory. I saw his obituary and it had nothing like you described on it. Trayvon as we all know, is not the criminal here. Zimmerman is and, he bought this all on himself. I actually hate George Zimmerman and the rest of his lying family.

      • racerrodig says:

        Speaking of that subject, I suspect puptarts is one of those that used CherryPopTarts as his name. He is the one who posted the “Team Zimmerman” link that has porn. Just a warning.

    • racerrodig says:

      Funny you mention that. I slapped him upside the head (figuratively speaking, physically hoping) for some of his vile filth on Tuesday I believe. I flagged and reported him and all if not most of his posts were removed. That’s what he does. He takes others names and modifies them if need be and goes to town. Dweep, is putting it mildly.

  26. Xena says:

    Junior continues to put his foot in his mouth.

      • racerrodig says:

        Now Z can use the “My brother is an idiot” defense. At least that one is factual.

      • Malisha says:

        It goes like this:

        QUESTION: Can’t you see that testing the dead victim for drugs and doing a criminal background check on the victim, while not even doing that on the shooter, is perceived as racist?

        ANSWER: Yes, it’s very racist to try to make my poor brother apologize just because a black kid broke his nose.

        🙄 ❗ :mrgreen: 😉

        • jm says:

          Robert Jr is an idiot but I believe the Zimmerman clan thinks he is a good representative for them at this point. Clearly they are dead-wrong, AGAIN. They would be better off to keep their mouths shut but I believe this is a desperate attempt to sway public opinion and get drum up funds for GZ defense. It is overall disgusting.

      • ShannonInMiami says:

        I saw this clip last night and i’ve gotta go find the entire interview. But from this few minutes robert jr. says the word “white” 8 times. It’s like he’s forcing the word ‘white’ in reference to GZ into any context he can, and along with the “media has made this case into a big story that has nothing to do with the killing of a unarmed innocent kid by his own depraved brother” same ol song! It feels like there’s a clear, focused effort by Omar (in that stunning interview by the OS) and now robert JR here, to not just distract from the murder, but to also, IMO unbelievably, MAKE GZ white. Like confirm to everyone that will listen that GZ IS white. It seems to me that the strategy is to make him whiter and Trayvon blacker, when before they were pushing the Hispanic angle. I’m thinking to myself, GZ isn’t white in my eyes, never has been. And i don’t care about all that ethnic stuff for the census and government form bubbles..I’m just talking about normal life talk, when no one sits around and plays the ‘guess your race’ game! I’m in miami and when i’m pressed to point out someones’ race in some everyday circumstance, i’ll probably just choose from white, black or Spanish. Maybe it’s different for other people, maybe it’s because as a kid i came here from GA and hadn’t been exposed to spanish people until i moved here, traveled, etc.., IDK..But i can’t see the benefit for them to proclaim him white. Is this a ploy, an attempt to try and actually divide the races and hope for jury nullification from an all white jury or something??? Or, as i’m perfectly willing to accept, am i just reading too much into these 2 most recent interviews now?? PS. About the interview with Omar; i’m interested in anyone’s opinions on Omar’s comments in this. Is it ethical, legal, or right or normal for a lawyer to make these types of statements even before your client’s trial? Does he sound as stupid to everyone else as he does to me? Is this the twilight zone?
        here is the weird interview:

      • Xena says:


        Now Z can use the “My brother is an idiot” defense. At least that one is factual.

        LOL. Right on.

        @Malisha. Right. Junior took on a posture that says, “What? You mean that the American justice system doesn’t entitle my brother to kill Black kids?”

      • Xena says:

        @ShannonInMiami. George and Junior have a racial identification problem. In the police reports released to the media, GZ’s race is White. It was not until some media personnel obtained GZ’s 2005 mugshot that his race was questioned.

        On his medical report for the day after he killed Trayvon, GZ’s race is given as White.

        GZ found and became proud of his Latino heritage when laying out bait for new financial donors. Apparently now, Junior must believe that White donors dwindled because his brother presented himself as Hispanic. In a way, Junior confirms that GZ is subject to racial prejudice FROM WHITES — which is also possibly a reason why they have kept their Peruvian mom out of the media.

        • cielo62 says:

          One more time with feeling: WHITE is a race. HISPANIC is a culture. GZ can be BOTH white and hispanic. I AM BOTH white and hispanic, a fact that makes me sick when it includes scum like GZ.

      • Jun says:

        His brother is a moron. His replies had nothing to do with the conversation. Cenk repeatedly stated that his points were interesting but it was about the injustice that the police and state attorney did not do a proper investigation into Zimmerman, when he has every reason, motive, opportunity to lie and the victim can’t even confront Zimmerman on his allegations. The hell does that have to do with white people needing credibility and the system against blacks and whatever other stupid crap that comes out his mouth. Then as per the usual Zimmerman KKKlan modus operandi, throw in hearsay of what happened when Zimmerman’s claims are not proven and are a lie according to forensics and witness accounts.

      • Jun says:


        Its obvious to anyone that Zimmerman is hispanic and white (and according to him 0.00000878% black LOL). That is not even a case because any race of people can be racist or prejudiced and have hate. Its so obvious RZ JR is trying to appeal to dumb ass rednecks who buy that “white race is oppressed KKK crap”.

        I havent seen the whole interview, but if I was Cenk, I would have confronted RZ JR’s accusation of the punch (as I am sick of him trying to brainwash people) and tell him:

        1) Zimmerman’s injuries or wuss scratches do not match up with his story.

        2) Zimmerman could have staged his injuries and concocted his story, as have been done many times in court for self defense, civil lawsuits, setting people up in criminal court, etc. If that is the case, Zimmerman would not be the first

        3) Zimmerman was heard by many to have been stalking and chasing the minor while uttering hateful and angry remarks and hostility before the killing occurred. By forensics and ballistics alone, its obvious Zimmerman completely lied about how the incident went down.

        4) Stop lying to everyone that the screaming is George. It clearly sounds like a kid screaming for help. It sounds nothing like George. Audio forensics have stated that it is 95% not Zimmerman screaming for help. The screaming does not match his story nor does it match his voice samples.

        Some of the news reporters need to stop being such pussies and throw hardballs at RZ Jr.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          @ Jun: Go back over there and lob another hardball at them in the comments for readers/watchers to see, I did. They only have 1900 views, but, each time there’s another news story, that number goes up pretty quickly.

  27. Puptart says:


  28. I think you are right Jim.
    In the interview with Serino ,Zimmerman mentioned something about her having more authority in her voice than he did.
    In his twisted mind he may believe he is a cop but he’s just a big bully who likes to throw his weight around !

    Jim sez:
    If Trayvon questioned GZ’s authority this would set off GZ’s anger issues and his bouncer mentality set in

    • Malisha says:

      It was very strange language George used with Singleton. He was awaiting the Voice Stress test that HE HAD REQUESTED (advised by Osterman). He asked if she had ever “had to shoot someone” and she said NO. He said that was good (as if HE had HAD to shoot someone) and commented that HE would never “question [her] authority.” As if what would make her have to shoot someone would be the “suspect” questioning her AUTHORITY! That is what made me think that it was Trayvon questioning George’s AUTHORITY that “made” George “have to shoot” Trayvon. The offense that prompted the killing was not putting George in fear for his life; it was questioning his authority. There are plenty of Zimbots out there (including Chief Lee who said that Trayvon “mouthed off” at George) who believe that Trayvon was in the wrong for not showing George appropriate respect.

      • Jun says:

        Taffe actually admitted that in an interview. He stated that Trayvon should have answered him properly and none of what happened would have happened. That is going to bite Zimmerman on the ass later on. By Taffe’s statement, he is saying that Zimmerman did confront Trayvon. However, Trayvon isn’t going to be open to a hostile stranger at night time, especially one who had been stalking and chasing him with a gun

      • ladystclaire says:

        IMO, FIRED chief Lee should be occupying a prison cell right next to Zimmerman’s. the same also goes for Wolfinger and papa Z. they all obstructed justice for Trayvon in this case. who in the hilly haystack did Bill Lee think Zimmerman was, that Trayvon should have bowed to him? Zimmerman is nothing but a big FAT FAILURE!

      • racerrodig says:

        I guess saying “Why are you following me” constitutes “…mouthing off…” In Zidiocy.

        Even if you “dis” a police officer, he can’t……….how should I put this……do anything.

  29. Malisha says:

    Searching, I’m pretty sure the judge will only allow them to be sent to the court. Then I’m pretty sure the Zimbots will “leak” so much faked up crap to the press that it will become a new firestorm of the old Z movie, “The Thuggery of Suspects who Need to be Killed before they Get Away,” that movie that played to such a wide audience last time around. I envision the brand new “Zimmerman Awards” where one after another dried up has-been tough-guy movie stars get up and scream at empty chairs that their thug days are over, and then at the awards themselves, they give out a statue of George’s broken noggin and his bumpy pinnochio-nose. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!

    If they do actually get revealed to the press, which I would bet strongly against, I think we will see a good student with a few peccadillos on his record and we will be kinda suspicious that they suspended Black kids a little quicker than perhaps they would do to their preppy contemporaries down there in the Sunshine State.

    • SearchingMind says:

      Malisha, I agree that Zimmerman/O’Mara might come to regret the day they subpoenaed Trayvon’s school records. Law students are thought that a lawyer should not ask questions he does not already know the answer to. To that I will add, never publicly seek records you do not know what they might contain.

      • racerrodig says:

        They’ll probably find that Trayvon could only run a 13.5 100 yard dash. Then they’ll spin it into “..it’s because of all the drugs..” That’s just how they are.

        However, one of his teachers stated “..he majored in smiles…” I’ll buy that !! He was looking into colleges to study becoming an “aeronautical engineer”

        My best friend is one, it’s just one step below “Rocket Scientist”

        I forget, how many years did Z waste on that 2 year Criminal Justice course……Oh yeah….over 7.

        But boy did Osterman throw him a party for the “Non – Graduate” Party Hard George….Party Hard SheLie…We’re not worthy !!!

        • jm says:

          racerrodig says: “I forget, how many years did Z waste on that 2 year Criminal Justice course……Oh yeah….over 7”

          How many years was ShelLIE studying to be a nurse? Did she graduate? From what I could find on google search is ShelLie dropped out of Seminole State College in 2010 and described by a neighbor as a “stay at home student.”

      • Malisha says:

        They won’t use the records at any trial that might be had. That’s my bet.

      • Xena says:

        I forget, how many years did Z waste on that 2 year Criminal Justice course……Oh yeah….over 7.

        GZ originally enrolled in community college to acquire a license to sell insurance. He enrolled again in 2010, majoring in Criminal Justice. In one interview, he said that his major was Political Science. GZ may have changed his major after barely passing Introduction to Criminal Justice.

      • racerrodig says:

        jm….I forgot about that !! Yes, she actually a “Stay at home dropout” now.

    • Two sides to a story says:

      The do that to brown students in many parts of AZ too.

  30. SearchingMind says:

    Given the notorious nature of this case, the fact that concepts such as ‘fair trial’ and allegations of bias are loosely being thrown around in this case, I think that the trial Judge should not- and would not be quashing the subpoenas for Trayvon’s school records. IMO, the Court would rule that the said records be delivered under seal to the Court, after which the Court will decide on their relevance, admissibility, who gets what and when, etc. The Court will (IMO) further rule that future subpoenas be served only with the approval of the Court. Justice must not only be done. Justice must also be seen to have been done. In the end, Zimmerman will not (be able to) claim that he was hindered in his ability to gather and present evidence to prove his innocence.

  31. SearchingMind says:

    @ BettyKath

    “In terms of Z profiling, in his written report to SPD to called the person he shot a “suspect”. On what basis was T a suspect? There were no open cases. It’s more of the wannabe cop.”

    Excellent observation, BetthyKath. You asked one of the crucial questions which I have no doubt that BDLR wil be putting to Zimmerman if/when he dares take the stand. That word “suspect” goes to Zimmerman’s state of mind – a very important element of murder2. Before the killing, Zimmerman “profiled” Trayvon as a possible criminal responsible for some of the break-ins and started following him. When Trayvon “ran”, Zimmerman, being the Albert Einstein that he is, became convinced that Trayvon was/must be one of those burglars. Zimmerman thought to himself: “he is running” because he knows that he has been caught and cornered. Why else would he be running if he has done nothing wrong’? But it never occurred to this Albert Einstein then (and his Hannity interview shows that it has not occurred to him now) that the boy might be running because he was scared of a sneaky stranger who was following/stalking him in a car, observing and looking menacingly at him while talking on the telephone, etc. . He (Zimmerman) wasn’t about to let this burglar go free and may/must have thought that he also had the right to kill him – just like Serino said, ‘if he has been a thug, I would say thumbs up’ (or something to that effect).

    • rachael says:

      “He (Zimmerman) wasn’t about to let this burglar go free and may/must have thought that he also had the right to kill him – just like Serino said, ‘if he has been a thug, I would say thumbs up’ (or something to that effect).”

      I don’t mean to be argumentative, but while I totally agree that GZ wasn’t about to let this “perceived” burglar go free, I don’t think he thought he had the right to kill him because he perceived him to be a burglar.

      I think GZ got himself into a position where he was cornered and killed him – not out of self-defense, but out of self-serving self-preservation and used self-defense as his reasoning. But I do not believe his initial intent was to actually kill Trayvon.

      I also think that Serino saying that if Trayvon was a thug, he would say thumbs up “or something to that effect) is pretty awful. You can’t just shoot someone because they are or you think they are a thug. Even if, for example, he was doing something thuggish, like stealing a woman’s purse, I don’t think you can shoot them. But you certainly cannot shoot them because they appear to be a thug.

      • jm says:

        “I think GZ got himself into a position where he was cornered and killed him – not out of self-defense, but out of self-serving self-preservation and used self-defense as his reasoning.”

        My theory is GZ was angry and shot Trayvon because he did not show GZ the respect GZ thought he deserved.

        During interviews all of the Zimmerman male family members appear to think they are superior and deserve special treatment, in particular smirking GZ on Hannity interview.

        If Trayvon questioned GZ’s authority this would set off GZ’s anger issues and his bouncer mentality set in. The more Trayvon yelled, the angrier GZ got. I also wonder if GZ approached Trayvon with a gun or had his hand near his holster letting Trayvon know he was armed.

        The Zimmerman supporters are focused on Trayvon being an athlete and a fighter, I would like to know more about GZ training/background as far as fighting and athletics that qualified him to be a bouncer because Trayvon’s screams on the 911 call seemed at times beyond help and fear, but like he was in pain.

        I haven’t studied this case as most regulars here have so my theory is just based on the type of person GZ appears to be and his previous run-ins with the law so I could be way off base as far as what the actual evidence shows.

      • Lonnie Starr says:

        Serino knows better, he on a fishing expedition, he’s throwing things out there to see if he can get a hook in. After all he knows it’s being recorded, so he’s throwing things out to see if he gets a reaction. Other things he throws in are meant to lead. You don’t get people talking by issuing constant challenges, you’ve got to give them something, and police often say things they don’t really mean in these interviews, just to see if it leads anywhere.

      • rachael says:

        I know Lonnie, it was jus cop ploy, but it still hurts my ears to hear it.

      • George Zimmerman is an alcoholic – in recovery (assumed). My father is an alcoholic – sober for many years and I see so many parallels between the two. Alcohol gives some the courage to do things they would not normally do. Alcohol is the crutch. If George has been sober, he now has a gun to substitute the alcohol crutch. The gun made him feel the ultimate power over someone. Alcohol may have gotten him in minor violent incidents. The gun was the accelerant in the violent behavior. He paid no price for the alcohol-related violence so he thought he should get away with this. He knew what SYG and self-defence claims would be his get-out-of-jail-free card and he almost got away with it too! If he gets away with killing someone once, be afraid. He will do it again. He has the sense of entitlement and is dangerous with this new crutch — a concealed weapon. Only the next time, there would not be a NEN call to the police. That call was his only mistake. It is hoped it will also be his downfall.

      • SearchingMind says:

        Jm, Lonnie, Sandy and Rachael, you are right. Honestly, I think the only ones who really know Zimmerman’s motive, e.g. anger, hate, racial animosity, etc. (and prosecutors need not prove any of them) for shooting Trayvon dead are Zimmerman himself and GOD. For the purpose of getting a conviction for murder2, it think that prosecutors will without problems show that Zimmerman acted with depraved mind – by profiling Trayvon as a criminal; following/stalking him even after he (Trayvon) “ran” to get away from him (Zimmerman) and he (Zimmerman) was asked to end the pursuit; describing him (Trayvon) as an a**hole, punk (and I believe he said ‘coon’), etc., attempting to illegally detain- and/or actually detaining him (which in itself is a separate crime), shooting him (Trayvon) dead while he begged for his life, etc. – is more than enough.

      • jm – Joe Oliver was a sponsor and he went to anger management, etc. as indicated on the Dr. Phil program with Osterman. Osterman did not dispute Dr. Phil about GZs problems with alcohol.

  32. fauxmccoy says:

    good for you professor and crane for taking some well deserved time off, i hope you got a chance to do something relaxing.

    as for me, i spent the last 2 days at ….. JURY DUTY!. although my group was not chosen for voir dire, i did have an excellent opportunity to explain the process to people who were interested and i have you to thank.

    we were given some materials stating that if chosen for the jury that wee could not speak of the case nor consider any information available through local news or the internet while deliberating. a lot of people asked why about that second item. i was able to explain quite easily that it was due to rules of evidence and that the decision to convict or acquit could only consider facts that were properly entered as evidence. i felt like quite the sharp cookie, even if those awful benches we had to sit on were killing my back.

  33. Xena says:

    Professor. I have a favor to ask. As you plan future posts, will you consider one that deals with requirements to prevail in self-defense immunity?

    I know that we have gone over what the State must prove in order to get conviction on 2nd degree murder. However, there is at least one case decision I read where the court laid out requirements to prevail in a self-defense claim. It was one where the court granted immunity and IIRC and spell it correctly, the case was In Re Saaverdra.

    There are some people who look at the events of a case, and then allege because the events are different than the events in GZ’s case, that the court’s decision does not apply. I would like more examination on how the court applies the requirements to the events. Hope I’m making sense. Thanks.

    • Jun says:

      ”’Stare decisis”’ of that case means that Trayvon has a SYG claim as Zimmerman is the aggressor who kept pursuing and stalking for a confrontation and would not deescalate the situation. I dont feel Trayvon hit Zimmerman, I think Zimmerman staged his injuries, but anything that Trayvon did would be considered lawful force.

    • Pat deadder says:

      Can I ask if jurors or ps could be threatened or have fear of a guilty verdict because of all the gz supporters who seem predisposed to violence.I don’t go to those web sites but from some of the comments here about them they sound scary.

      • Re: Zim supporters posing a threat……….I actually have a couple of questions regarding this…..1) How does the prosecution filter out (of the jury pool) people who are Zim supporters? These are the people who will not listen to the facts and who already are convinced that Zim is innocent…..2) How does a jurist keep from being intimidated or even threatened by fellow jurists if the fellow jurist, by chance, happens to be a Zim supporter?

  34. Operacarla says:

    Dear Professor,

    Thank you for providing your expertise on this site! Something is bothering me about the Trayvon Martin case…in the Hannity interview at about the 16:15 minute George states that Investigators told him that Trayvon at this point knew that George was in contact with the police(?!)


    In Mark Osterman’s book Mark writes: “ that Zimmerman was told a Florida Department of Law Enforcement comparison confirmed, “by a 90 to 95% match,” the voice — captured on a 911 call during the altercation — was Zimmerman’s”
    Are these imaginary Police officers in George’s delusional mind or a part of something larger?
    Thanks again for all of your information.

    • racerrodig says:

      He’s lying bold faced about the voice match. He left out the words “..do not…” as in 90 to 95 % DO NOT match.

      Tom Owen, who I am familiar with did an audio analysis and he stated that there is a 90 to 95 % chance it is not Z on the 911 calls. Talk about brazen.

    • Fed-up taxpayer says:

      I didn’t read it as investigators telling him TM knew he’d called police, but as a syntax break while composing a new facet of his story.

      Anyone else notice how he closes his eyes each time he confirms Hannity’s questions?

  35. bettykath says:

    The purpose of T’s high school records was a fishing expedition for pubic consumption. If the school had released the records there would have been an oops release of them to the public. After all, the prosecution did an oops release of GZ’s college records. It wouldn’t be too hard to build an internal to the defense justification to release Trayvon’s records.

    • Jun says:

      Main difference though is the prosecution did a proper subpoena for the records of Zimmerman and wanted a gag order on the evidence, however, Lester ruled in favor of the Sunshine to let it out.

      Omara is trying a backdoor method of using civil subpoena and at the same time, they are the records of the juvenile and the victim, who is not here to defend himself. I do not think they will find anything though

      • Fed-up taxpayer says:

        No penalty for this,right?

      • Jun says:

        I dont know that much about trials and court rules and penalties for lawyers except for getting nicked from the bar but it would be a point against Omara’s professionalism as Omara sounds vengeful in his trek and tried to use shiest ways to get his hands on personal information. He is a lawyer and should know the proper procedures and methods but Omara from my observation is a sleeze so he will break rules, however, I can see the judge and the State calling him out on it, like they did at the second bond hearing.

  36. Two sides to a story says:

    Except Mr. Leatherman seems to think that although a plea can be done any time up to trial, that this window in the GZ case is likely closed.

    • Jun says:

      I dont think Zimmerman will plead anyways. Zimmerman in his life has always picked on weaker and smaller people. In prison, he would be a huge bitch. Zimmerman will just keep lying and trying to explain his lies.

    • fauxmccoy says:

      if i understand things correctly, a plea deal can be arranged at any time during the trial, as long as the jury has not yet reached a verdict. the judge would have to agree, but that would be the case regardless.

      • CherokeeNative says:

        Even if GZ and O’Mara now realize that GZ’s defense is without merit, they will continue to push the self-defense theory – they have nothing else – GZ has admitted to committing homicide. If he entered into a plea deal (most likely an Alford plea) he would go straight to jail, and while the judge can’t force a trial under those circumstances, he does not have to abide by the stipulation between the defense and prosecution – he is free to sentence the defendant as he sees necessary. But my point was that GZ will not plea because at the very least, he has months ahead of him of being free in his itsy bitsy confines with Shellie whereas a plea deal would send him straight to jail – so drag it out as long as possible while O’Mara makes the media circuit in the meantime – with hopes that the Pinellas County jurors will be impaneled.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          oh, i agree with you that gz will not likely plea, his object is to use his lifetime ‘get out of jail free’ card for as long as humanly possible and he’s got a lawyer willing to dance to his tune. i was merely pointing out that a plea can be made while trial is in progress.

      • racerrodig says:

        I doubt he will take a plea nor will he even entertain one if Moron O’ Mara says “…lets at least ask…” No, Z is in control. I think he feels he has that Manson hold on O’ Mara.

        I don’t think Z grasps the concept of what the evidence and forensics actually show.

    • Lonnie Starr says:

      I’m with Mr. Leatherman on that view. Why would the SP settle a winning case? Most especially in the face of the political winds that are blowing steadily and strongly around it, such that only a win in a court of law, will be an acceptable solution.
      Sure the SP could settle, but the threads left untied will be so enormous, the prosecution, the state, the governor and the nation would be entangled in them for decades to come. That would likely become a career ending move for them in the future.
      Thus this has become a hand, harder to fold than to go for the win.

      • racerrodig says:

        And how funny that his Da – Da said to Lee, “….make this go away…” Hmmmmmmm That would be the unemployed Lee.

        Sitting next to an unemployed Wolfinger.

      • ed nelson says:

        Hi Lonnie, I couldn’t find a reply button until here.

        You are way too wordy, should not make so many long whinded ones.

      • racerrodig says:

        Lonnie, don’t worry about what anyone says, most of us here love what you have to say. The length of your post matters not when it contains real information and emotion. Keep up the fabulous work !!

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Thanks, racerrodig. I realized a long time ago, that I work differently than most. Like I said, I’m comfortable with the idea that I have ignorance, but aren’t we all ignorant in one way or another?: The key is not that ignorance exists, but that some people are satisfied with it. It’s being satisfied with ignorance that a dummy makes.

          Anyway, I’m glad that I worked on making a composite timeline, using the phone logs. It reveals that the mysterious NEN call, was not made to report things as they were happening, but to distract and cover up what was actually happening.

          DD says that the 7:12 call was made while TM was still sheltering at the mailboxes. Yet, GZ is saying at 7:11 “SH– He’s running”!

          That mistake reveals that the NEN call is just a story being told, a play being acted out for the benefit of establishing things that did not happen and were not happening that way at all. This covers up what was really happening. George appears to be quickly out of his car and on the chase, while TM is still at the mailboxes. So, where did GZ really go? Where was he really at, at that moment in time? He could have been anywhere.

          I suspected that was the case a long time ago, when I realized that much of what was being reported, was either confusing or could not have happened as reported. If someone is reporting contemporaneously, things are not going to be so far out of line, as they are in GZ’s story. Now we find that they’re out of line, even in the NEN call as well.

      • jm says:

        I agree with you Lonnie. I want to see a trial and part of the reason for that is to prove to Zimmerman supporters just what type of person they have been backing. There is no turning back with a plea. Maybe I am selfish but ever since I heard the Trayvon’s screams of anguish on the 911 calls and later saw GZ smirking on Hannity interview claiming to have no regrets and claiming it was part of God’s plan, I want him to be exposed for every single ugly lie he has told and humiliated publicly. I also want the arrogant Zimmerman family to have to face the evidence and know without a doubt what a cruel sadistic monster GZ . .

  37. Malisha says:

    “Prior bad acts” cannot be used in a criminal trial if they are the defendant’s “prior bad acts” unless there is some particular reason they are admissible. By the same token, “prior bad acts” of a victim of the defendant don’t prove anything in most cases and so forth. But I think the most significant piece of this question about Trayvon’s school records is simply that admitting ANYTHING about Trayvon’s school records is going to open George up for plenty that he does not want on the record. I think the whole Trayvon Martin school records gambit is about making public opinion turn less hostile to George; if people start to think, “Oh well it was a wannabe thug versus a wannabe cop and the wannabe cop won,” then O’Mara can get a plea deal without a big public outcry.

    • Xena says:

      I think the whole Trayvon Martin school records gambit is about making public opinion turn less hostile to George;

      It was actually a demand by GZ’s supporters. They have this idea that if O’Mara can find evidence to support that Trayvon was a thug, that is all needed to get charges against GZ dismissed. Some of the demands were along the lines of saying that if O’Mara embarked on a fishing expedition, that Trayvon’s parents would be so upset that “Crump” would drop charges. The Zidiots do not understand that the State is prosecuting GZ — not attorney Crump.

      • Jun says:

        LMAO Dont forget Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson. It is their fault too.

        Jokes aside, I do not think they will find anything but Conservative Treefrog will be trying to spin it.

        “Trayvon liked show and tell and was on the honour role. He’s a thug”

      • Xena says:

        Jokes aside, I do not think they will find anything but Conservative Treefrog will be trying to spin it.

        “Trayvon liked show and tell and was on the honour role. He’s a thug”


        Seriously though, in their effort to try to identify DeeDee, they are copying and pasting tweets about missing the “No Limit N….” which are dated before Feb. 26, 2012!!!!!

      • Malisha says:

        I remember Jeralyn, over at her blog, saying that “Trayvon’s side” would not want all the information about HIM to come out, as if the parents of a high school kid (ooops Jeralyn, something is showing, what does it look like?) would be so terribly ashamed of their kid’s sordid history that they would slink away, after he was shot dead for no reason, afraid to complain for fear of exposure! That, more than anything else, made me realize how fundamentally racist many of Zimmerman supporters are, even when they try to hide it under other kinds of camouflage.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Basically the point of law is that the jury will be required to look at the instant situation surrounding the time the shot was fired.

          A) The prelude to the shot, while remarkable as it may be, can only go so far as to establish, who should reasonably been in proximity to whom. To establish that it was proper for GZ to have been in that area, it needs to be shown that there were no indications against his presence there. That is, no indications, of sufficient weight, that a reasonable person would not have done what GZ did.

          B) This is why GZ’s claims become so important. He claims that his only interest was in protecting the neighborhood from thugs who “always get away”. That’s fine, but, without police powers, he cannot claim the right to do, anything more than what the police have instructed him to do. In his NW training the SPD has told him that he should not follow people he suspects. They told him why, and how such conduct could have very tragic results. Then, that night, when the NEN operator, discovers that GZ has left his vehicle, asks “are you following?” This question is asked to ascertain whether further instruction is needed. GZ replies that he is following, and the further instruction he receives then is: “We do not need you to do that!” Which should have been enough of a reminder, that NW’ers who do not follow the protocols of NW are vigilantes and therefore engaged in conduct that is not approved.

          C) So then it derives that according to GZ’s story it’s: Too late, the unapproved conduct has already produced unwanted results!
          At that point in time GZ is responsible for these unwanted results!

          D) But, according to GZ, the unwanted events that occur at that location, which he describes as happening at the T, were fearsome enough to induce a reasonable fear that he might be seriously injured or killed there. Yet, although this claim may be true or untrue, it remains a fact that no shot was fired there.

          E) At yet another location some distance away from the initial encounter, we find GZ in contact with the “suspect” again.
          Witness testimony appears to indicate that the two arrived there under their own power. There is no mention that any force or other compulsive measures resulted in this second encounter. This is because what the witnesses tell us, appears to say that both parties arrived at this second location, of their own volition. They, appear to have been free to move in whatever direction they desired for a time.

          F) One party has a fire arm, the other party has no weapon at all.

          G) So, “F” set the stage where the jury must decide, if a reasonable person would have feared great injury or death at the hands of the other party.

          H) GZ’s own story of this encounter, includes no action by TM, that could possibly convince a reasonable person that TM could do great injury or cause GZ’s death, with no weapon of any kind available to him.

          I) It is for the reason supplied in “H”, that GZ supplies “he went for my gun”, as a reason for himself to fear great bodily harm or death.

          J) The problem for the jury is, there is only one gun! Thus, at some point GZ gains total control of this weapon and he takes aim. At this point, no reasonable person would believe that TM could somehow take the gun away from GZ and kill or injure him with it. Nor would any reasonable person believe that TM could greatly injure or kill GZ with only his bare hands.

          K) GZ fires an unnecessary shot into TM killing him, at a time when he faced no serious threat of his own. Since a reasonable person would expect that being held at gunpoint, would cease to resist.

          L) Even if TM did not cease resistance, GZ still had nothing, in the way of great bodily harm or imminent death to fear, such that he could not retreat and warn. Instead he fired without warning, into the body of an unarmed teen causing death.

          These are the critical points that will matter at trial. GZ cannot possibly get a self defense instruction, against a weapon he carried to the encounter. There was no reason at all, for him to be in at the place where he was, facing an unarmed youth, who had no control of the firearm. There was only one firearm there, and only one person had control of it. Thus ended GZ’s right to reasonably fear for his life.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            lonnie – just needed to let you know that i appreciate the thought and logic you put into your well worded posts. keep it up!

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            I read it again, after I posted it and I see that my “back and forth” editing didn’t have the exact results I’d intended. So I’ll have to ask you to forgive the “drop outs”, which I’m sure are as obvious as the meanings intended are (which is why I don’t feel so bad that it’s not perfect.).

            Thank you for your kind comment and encouragement.

            Any good story starts with a well contrived skeleton of logical narrations. Once that’s done, the emotional meat and muscle gets hung on the bones and then cover it all over with a nice neat skin of smooth prose. I think by the time we’re finished, we might very well have a marketable book about our blogging on the case, and we can contrast it (to make it even more interesting) by including snipped views from opposing blogs at parallel times.

            Maybe Professor should set up a corporation and issue shares to the major contributors or some such scheme. The story is global and quite interesting, I think a well written story about a popular blog, on a subject of international interest would be an easy best seller.

          • cielo62 says:

            Lonnie~ OOOPS! Then I better contribute more so I can get in on the action!  🙂

          • Lonnie Starr says:

            Hee hee hee… You want to know about truth in paradox?

            The more you learn the more you realize how little you know!
            When you learn that you know so little, that you begin to feel positively stupid, you have actually begun to become very smart.

          • cielo62 says:

            Oh I agree! Which is why I love being a teacher. I get the enviable task of showing kids what a love for learning looks like. This case hits me so hard because I could see any of my “kids” (my students will always be my kids) being in such a situation at the hands of a racist sociopath. I’m not the best student in our class but I am very invested. Justice must prevail.

          • fauxmccoy says:

            lonnie – i am a writer myself which is why i particularly enjoy your posts. you’ve got it down.

      • rachael says:

        Lonnie, that was beautiful!

      • racerrodig says:

        As all “Real” Lawyers will tell you, never, never put the victim on trial especially a minor. Professor Leatherman had a nice blog about that in fact. I think the judge may look at the records, find nothing that helps Z in any way, allow them to be public or at least used as evidence and now it again becomes “Be careful of what you ask for….ya just might get it” Now all of Z’s history is evidence.

        And the bottom line is that is matters not what Trayvon may have done at some point, he is still a murder victim.

      • racerrodig says:

        Lonnie, All I can say is Wow !!

      • @ Lonnie….I really appreciate your comments and replys. Very clear and understandable to us “non-legal” folks.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          I’ve read quite enough to be terribly distraught at my own abject ignorance, so I work harder to remove it. Alas, as the paradox says, it will never happen, the more I learn the dumber I’ll feel. LOL! So, it derives that I have great compassion for those who also do not know. You know, the thing they don’t teach in school is, that even people “lay to a field of study” can and do make discoveries.

          I find that people who hide behind the complexities of subject matters, when they are speaking in lay forums, are usually people who fear their own lack of knowledge and are uncomfortable with it.
          It is an unreasonable fear! People like say Carl Sagan, knew quite enough to know that he would never know it all. So he was comfortable with his ignorance and could therefore tell his story in easy to understand terms, because he did not fear any challenge, but rather he welcomed them from everywhere and from everyone, because he knew he might very well learn something from anyone.

          Unlike the top research dogs at Bell Labs, where while searching for the means of creating a lazer, they pooh, poohed an intern who had actually found the answer. Later, some guy working in his kitchen found the answer and Bell had to pay royalties to use the technology. Those “big wigs” will forever have egg on their historical faces.

      • racerrodig says:

        One way to tell if you really have a bad case is when the internet gang has any influence at all. So I’d say if Moron
        O’ Mara lets the Zidiot Nation call the shots…..It’s all over but the clapping.

        As far as the Crump issue, you are dead on. They constantly harp on “Team Crump” Huh ??

        • Xena says:

          It amazes me. The Zidiots’ ignorance amazes me, but it’s also revealing of what their personal lives are like. Such as having been charged with domestic violence and having the person fail to appear or tell the SA they do not want to proceed. The Zidiots are bullies that want to think that intimidation works in all aspects. Well, it doesn’t happen that way. The State filed the charges and attacking SA Corey will result in nothing other than getting the Zidiots on the FBI’s watch list.

  38. Xena says:

    n my next two articles I will discuss the societal purpose and development of a system of laws to promote that purpose using Ancient Egypt as an example.

    Sounds VERY interesting. I anxiously await.

  39. Jun says:

    Does anyone know if Zimmerman’s history could be used for habit evidence?

    Zimmerman, by my observation of his history, has a habit of being an aggressive bully, who targets people he deems weaker or less entitled, and uses his weapons, which are manipulation, harassment, violence or a combination of the weapons.

    1) Raped his cousin for about 10 years
    2) Kicked a dog
    3) attacked police ( and you can tell he thinks less of them via his statements that they are all lazy and stupid)
    4) Beat up his Ex and got a restraining order
    5) Intimidated and harassed others in the complex as NW Captain self appointed (he would stare people down and harass them into their homes)
    6) Was complained of his aggressive “patrols” with his gun
    7) The Arab American employee who gave his story and observation of Zimmerman’s bullying and manipulation
    8) Was noted to be too violent and beat the crap out of some drunk lady
    9) Chased a kid he targeted home, until the father came out to defend his son
    10) The court manipulation of his funds, passport, and his many lies to police and the court and in the media

    Looks to me Zimmerman has a habit of targeting people and using manipulation, harassment, violence or a combination of them all

      • Jun says:

        Thanks =)

        I dont know how habit evidence is submitted but it came across to me that Zimmerman has these tendencies which I derived from his history. I havent even included his high school stuff yet

    • Rachael says:

      Don’t forget Daniel Osmin, a victim of GZs road rage whom GZ called polive on and followed him until police got there. The guy said he thought GZ was going to assault him.

      • Jun says:

        I never knew about that

        11) Daniel Osmin

        This actually shows a habitual character of a bully

      • Xena says:

        We might also want to add from his MySpace page how he was able to get his boys to do things, do a year, and not snitch on him. GZ is capable of having others do his dirty work which is indicative of being a head bully leading a group of other bullies.

      • Jun says:

        I have never looked at his myspace but I am sure the state has them all printscreened

      • racerrodig says:

        I never heard about that one, ThanX !!

    • CherokeeNative says:

      How about 12) Zimmerman may not have had a problem with all black people, but he was clearly racist in his prejudice about black male adults he didn’t personally know, making the assumption that all of them when seen in his neighborhood and surrounding area were criminals, based on his calls to law enforcement over an extended period. That shows he operated on assumptions that were both false and negative, and was willing to exceed reasonable force and authority.

      • Jun says:

        That could work… that only shows targeting though…

        But they could show all his phone calls in how ridiculous his assumptions are and his targets

      • Xena says:

        The prosecution’s affidavit alleges that GZ profiled Trayvon as a criminal. Racial profiling actually falls under federal jurisdiction.

        Since incident reports for RTL are included in discovery, it is my impression that the prosecution might use them to demonstrate that the number of break-ins were not significant; all suspects had been captured and did not “always get away” and GZ was overly zealous, even calling the cops for kids playing in the street.

      • bettykath says:

        In terms of Z profiling, in his written report to SPD to called the person he shot a “suspect”. On what basis was T a suspect? There were no open cases. It’s more of the wannabe cop.

      • Jun says:

        The suspect mind set will go against his mindstate

      • Xena says:

        In terms of Z profiling, in his written report to SPD to called the person he shot a “suspect”. On what basis was T a suspect? There were no open cases. It’s more of the wannabe cop.

        Even if their were open cases, GZ’s use of the word “suspect” puts a nail in his coffin for profiling, as it is intended to justify a “good shoot.” What GZ forgot is that he is not deputized.

        I don’t know if the prosecution plans to use the “suspect” portion of the profiling, but if they do, the right time would be at the immunity hearing. I’ve watched attorneys argue motions and say, “This court must …” The first time I heard a pro se litigant say that to a judge, I could literally see the hairs stand up on the judge’s neck.

        Only those with a Bar license can tell a judge what to do, and even then if the judge is in the right mood. Those without Bar licenses remind the court of the law, and that their facts apply to the law, and humbly request a ruling in their favor.

        Respect must be given to those in positions of authority. As GZ has no doubt now learned, they can destroy your life with the stroke of a pen. Not only did GZ profile when using the word “suspect,” he gave himself authority that he does not have. He has not paid the dues and walked in the shoes of LE to be their equal.

    • Mirre says:

      Missed the one of the kid he’d chased home. Can you tell me where I can find that?

      • Jun says:

        I dont remember where I found it but its in one of the evidence dumps.

      • rachael says:

        I know one of the oher people in the complex said he would follow people home. I’ll see if I can find it.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Please do Rachael, I’m interested as well. I think I might have read something, while chasing down other items. Can’t seem to recall it though, I probably did not pay it much attention at the time.

      • Malisha says:

        He presumed that a black kid had stolen a bicycle. He got the police to chase the kid WITH him I believe, and they come to the kid’s house and discover the kid OWNS the bike and his father (who was in the shower and had to come out to defend his son) bought it for him. Different serial number from the one George had insisted was stolen by this kid. So then when George does not press charges for the theft, some of his “team” use that incident to prove he was NOT a racist! ❗

    • racerrodig says:

      I agree, where is the line drawn. I love ya but your #8 is actually this. The female bar patron was not even drinking. He threw here out of the bar physically and broke her ankle for no reason. She sued the bar and they settled out of court. I have a connection down there that knows the whole story. My Best Man in fact. That makes his behavior even worse.

    • ShannonInMiami says:

      Don’t forget the woman he followed all the way to her home, because he thought she was driving recklessly. She was so scared of him, thinking there was (what he is) a crazed maniac chasing her she called the police on him! There is some record of it but no charges where filed. He obviously has a habit of stalking people.

      • Xena says:

        There is Ibrahim Rashada, a homeowner in RTL who said GZ told him to get guns and learn how to use them. He knew that GZ carried. Also, Rashada said that GZ sent out an email of a profile for suspected burglars, and that the profile was a stereotype that fit his description, causing him to stop jogging in RTL.

      • Malisha says:

        There evidently were complaints from residents about his conduct BEFORE THE SHOOTING and they were made to the SPD and they were ignored. Had they been acted upon, Trayvon would probably be alive today.

      • Two sides to a story says:


      • racerrodig says:

        Shannon, I’ll bet he blew it off with “I was just going to ask her out. She has black tires on her car and since I’m not a racist, why would I like to ask someone with black tires out”

        Z logic !!

      • racerrodig says:

        There were 56 complaints lodged against him to the HOA for being overly aggressive is just a few months. “Nuff said !

    • ladystclaire says:

      I didn’t know about a kid he chased and, the kid’s father came out and defended his son. was the kid AA? Zimmerman needs to be put away for life IMO!

      • ladystclaire says:

        I agree Malisha, had the SPD put a stop to Zimmerman and his antics, Trayvon would be alive today. but, they were so ready to accept him and his word as the gospel when neither one was. the SPD are just as responsible for Trayvon’s death as Zimmerman himself is. they knew he wasn’t playing with a full deck yet, they continued to allow him to play cops and robbers with other peoples lives. mms

      • Malisha says:

        Yes the kid was African American, as was his father.

  40. logi says:

    I’m not getting it. So, you may be able to look at the records to determine if he is a bully. How many incidents constitute bullying? 3 fights in one year? Who is to say that Trayvon was the aggressor? He could have been falsely accused. (hypothetically of course) Does it basically have to be written in the records, “Trayvon is a bully”?

    • Jun says:

      I think it would have to be more than one incident, plus they can get the teacher to clarify anything, I think. Like if you get in one fight, its a rare occasion and there may be mitigating circumstances. But if you start fights quite often then it is called a tendency. I think they will just use common sense.

  41. MichelleO says:

    I came from the board that Racerrodig is talking about. I have since set up my own blog so that Trayvon supporters (who aren’t in it just for the combat) can talk peaceably and intelligently without Georgy or Georgy-holics getting our comments deleted.

    • Xena says:

      I’d like to know the URL for both.

      Be forewarned that the Zidiots do submit nasty-grams to blogs for supporters to talk peaceably and intelligently. First they argue on behalf of GZ, and then they start name calling. That then progresses to purportedly knowing something personal about you or someone who posts to your blog and threats of spreading the lies.

      • MichelleO says:


        Gotta have a gmail or twitter account.

      • racerrodig says:

        I was subjected to that by one of them. I own a small business and after over 25,000 jobs I was sued. I won the case as it was frivolous and the guy admitted that what I did, a race carburetor, worked perfectly. He broke an intake valve and hurt the engine. It had nothing to do with me. This Zidiot posted all over that I had my ass sued off and was homeless. Can you say Cyber-Stalking? We have a Federal Lawsuit against Ocwen (who doesn’t) that we will win on a Motion for Summary Judgement. This Zidiot says we are “deadbeats” We sued them…..Huh ??

        They are just moronic racists with an agenda.

    • racerrodig says:

      I’d like to join…..You know where I stand. Where ?

    • ladystclaire says:

      I have been missing you as I blogged under the user name Evita on that cesspool of a site. I’m not going back because, I’ve had it with the racial hatred for an innocent deceased child. Trayvon’s skin color has everything to do with these people (if you can call them that) supporting his murderer. also, if Zimmerman was 100% Hispanic, they wouldn’t give a you know what about him.

      • racerrodig says:

        Hey !! I know you. Yes, and you really held your own with them.
        Funny, how Dino over there said Professor Leatherman has “…a few screws loose…” as if he can even claim having a GED with his apparent IQ.

        Yep, it seems the Zidiot Nation is happy their hero, which is what they call him, killed a black kid. Racists, with an agenda.

      • “luv my cats” here too!

      • racerrodig says:

        grey winter sky……the cats……I can’t remember your name there. I’m so sorry !!

  42. Jun says:

    Zimmerman is a pathetic person. And I agree with Racerrodig. I have always had a feeling that Zimmerman is online on boards because of the stupidity of the arguments and insistance of his story throughout. Even his supporters would not spend that much of their time arguing for him. I’d say Bernie should also confront Omara of his consistent use of hearsay in his motions and trying to admit hearsay during bonds. Omara’s motion to recuse Lester was filled with hearsay, as he attempted to use Zimmerman’s statements to prove the truth of the matter asserted in his motions to recuse.

    • racerrodig says:

      I agree with Moron O’ Mara playing the games. He thinks he’s slipping one by everyone at every turn. It will come back to haunt him however. The classic was, my client will testify today, but the prosecution can’t ask him anything. Huh ??

      He forgot the old saying….be careful of what you ask for, ya just might get a new Judge who is a staunch children’s rights advocate. Don’t ya just hate that Mark ??

    • Hey Jun, Wasn’t G’z computer confiscated but he could be on line on the library or at a friends house but he doesn’t have any friends! LOL! He could be using Shellie’s computer though. LOL!

      • jm says:

        “He could be using Shellie’s computer though.”

        I believe the Zimmerman Team were on certain boards to put out their propaganda and malign Trayvon Martin & family. I am sure Zimmerman has bought himself the best computer his defense fund money could buy.

        I wonder how many Zimmerman supporters there really are.

        Can’t believe anyone with a brain could support GZ as more and more evidence comes out and that includes Zimmerman family and friends.

        • @jm: Believe it: There are actually Zim-idiots on the Huffington Post Blog who still after 7 months, are still spewing the same allegations and allegience to the Big fat Z! LOL! It is obvious that they refuse to read any of the evidence released because it points to the guilt of their hero and they cannot face the facts about him. What some of these racists do as well, is to focus not on the factual information but on the Martin family or the post of the individual posting it. They will find a mis-spelling or pick on the fact that GZ didn’t need his wife to go shopping with him, despite the fact that he had no money or credit cards on his person! Juvenile stuff!

          That is the kind of crap you have to put up with on Youtube and HP and I am tired of the nonsense myself. Some idiot posted a long post of the marriages, relationships and children produced by Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton. I was absolutely appalled and reported the poster. This is the crap we have to endure from these idiots, and who knows? Maybe GZ or one of his co-horts posted this info, though I don’t know where they received it or if it is true and it doesn’t matter to me in the least bit!

          • jm says:

            DGM says: “Maybe GZ or one of his co-horts posted this info, though I don’t know where they received it or if it is true and it doesn’t matter to me in the least bit!”

            What I saw from reading comments after news stories is a person called OdessaGirl had insider knowledge. I figure she gets her info from research done by MOM and spreads it to other GZ supporters. It is irrelevant but the GZ supporters are clinging to straws hoping no one will actually notice the evidence against GZ that is building. What Sabrina or Tracy have to do with GZ murdering Trayvon is beyond my understanding but somehow that keeps them busy and their minds off of true evidence. And then there are the cellphone pings they are cling to.

  43. ed nelson says:

    When “we” get to a certain age… “four score and what… ?” I dunno, but when we get there, it is a time to wind down and relax and take in the smell of the daffodils//roses etc.

    I see you working hard on this stuff, your thinking is brilliant, and well aimed, at the problem, which to my untrained eye, would be: The loss of the rule of law.

    I was a member of a union, said union was the continuation to some extent: of centuries of … ” tradition” in work rules… the slaves/peones, used to have :”understood rules about work… call it maybe: “protocal”, and that was fine and worked for thousands of years, or hundereds, The victors wrote the history/herstory…sk!

    So back in the turn of the century, circa 1934… they came up with the union/employer contract concept.

    See guys like me not too well educated, couldn’t stay awake long enough to read through a page of that gd crap, but even those of us that possessed the stamina… would be impeded by the roadblocks that are strewn in the path!

    If the thing says: A, then you go through the rulings, and find that A has become C-….. Not gradings, but the ruling is the “T letter” or subsequent to the A contractual lanquage, the ruling have held that it means: up means down, so said some f’n court.

    Bottom line: they round up the peons, the slaves, and they found a new system of total… Yeay! that’s it, Totalitarian, no rules power to the people upside down folks!

    No rules, that interfear with the devils/ creeps.

    And so… all I am saying is: that, we need to keep the law in place, to be a nation under law/god, and that would extend to thinkers who work with the questions of… god, and gods.

    • ed nelson says:

      What … ? no fuckin’ replies?, what a place this is… dummies.
      no not dummies so much as non starters… good luck dummies, you will inherite almost nothing, so enjoy!

      • SearchingMind says:

        Haha, Ed Nelson, you are very funny indeed. I truly think you are too smart for most people here. You write in metaphors. Your language is classic and archaic (something also I love doing) and your sentences are satirical and pregnant with a lot of meanings. I think it takes someone with high IQ to figure you out (no kidding, truly). The irony is – according to Bill Maher et al – Americans have gotten too dumb to speak- or understand proper English (like yours). I think that’s why nobody has replied to you, YET. You said something about “the loss of the rule of law”. I agree with you completely. I was wondering if you find that the actors in the present criminal case against George Michael Zimmerman (i.e. the prosecution, the judge and Mark O ‘Mara) have acted/are acting in accordance with the requirements of the rule of law and if not, why not? Is O’Mara justified in serving subpoenas for the school records of a murder-victim who is also minor – without prior court approval? What do you – as a reasonable lay person – find that the trial Judge should do with the subpoenas?

      • ed nelson says:

        To Searching mind: bellow or above, as reply to my snark type add on to my above comment:

        Thanks for that very nice comment Searchmind, I read a little now in my years, started that after being dumped out the schools system, and I have a library card…

        What Jonnie Weismuller jr said to me, something like: “if you keep on… ( with it… ) then… some of it will rub off on you!”

        Glad you took up on the idea that it is about destruction of the vestiges of “rule of Law”, Magna Carte… Upstage to all the things that leant toward that there could ever be a stable safe and decent world.

        Setting a strange thing, where the monsters will be free to roam, but what is the intelligence that drives that? Other than a sort of Satanic force?

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          Entropy all systems have it.

          Seems we Americans have “wandered” so far from the oppressions that gave birth to the nation, we have people who desire to go back to the “good old days” of Torquemada et als.

      • ed nelson says:

        I agree to the idea that it could be so called: entropy.
        That actually occurred to me and bothered me after the above comment stuff, because, me, I started to go to one of my little deals, where it is some kind of war of the worlds”, e.g., Good v/s, Evil etc.
        Even so, “Entropy”…. is more akin to evil, like the billions of tons of toxic garbage, and on… everyday… ! There couldn’t be any multicelled” animals much less hair apes, with out… the opposite of…”Entropy”, says me !…

        Well ok, every system has entropy, maybe you are right!! Not too many “tyranusoaruses” jogging on our trails ’round here’,

        I don’t buy the “entropy” argument, I remember reading on that long ago, like balongni… there must be some reordering of the trash that heads out into a vacume hell bent only on: making disorder and less order and to break it all down man!

  44. racerrodig says:

    Since I am familiar with the civil vs criminal requirement and stated that this was as you say, which is why the records have not been turned over, I was called some badddddd names by the Zidiot Nation. Gee……imagine that. I’m glad you posted this.

    FYI one of the Zidiots we suspect is actually George, I have basically painted him into a corner with my comments to him. What would be the ramifications if this turns out to be true. Clearly he’s trying to influence a potential jury pool. Of course the sheer stupidity of his comments and more so, his responses, are a real indication of, well……you know what I mean.

    • cielo62 says:

      LOL! What site was that? I want to go and read what’s going on… For as long as I can stomach it, that is! 🙂

      • racerrodig says:

        Huffington Post / Black Voices / Trayvon’s DNA not found on gun. Any Trayvon Murder topic there has the cesspool mentality. It is hard to stomach.

        I do expert witness reports and testimony for several lawyers. I am familiar with most of the procedures involved, what the evidence rules are and such. Whenever anyone including myself states what any of the realities are…..Duck !! The assaults are unreal. Your blog about Z testifying as to self defense because of the hearsay laws…..well, lets say I’m still stunned by what they say. The Zidiot Nation is under the impression to this day he can sit there like a potted palm, and walk stating the state has no case. They say point blank he was “…railroaded…” If they weren’t so perverted, it would be funny.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          heya racer – i know exactly what you are talking about. i left weeks ago and never looked back. participating in that hot mess was bad for me, body and soul.

          • cielo62 says:

            to fauxmccoy~  I don’t imagine there are too many fauxmccoys online, so I wanted to thank you for the School House Rock video you posted on Youtube, probably years ago. Do you know how HARD it is to teach the Constitution for 2nd graders? Anyway, I enjoy your comments here, but I had been meaning to thank you for a different contribution.  🙂

          • fauxmccoy says:

            cielo – thank you kindly. yes, that fauxmccoy is me as well – i leave a wide swath across the internet, hence the ‘fake’ mccoy name. 😉

      • Rachael says:

        Yes racer, you and probably others know me from there as well. That place is just a nasty cesspool of hatred and really affects my outlook on life, or at least humanity, so I just don’t go there anymore.

        I can handle discussions with people who have differen’t views. In fact, I welcome that, but there is little discussion there. Just bullying, hatred, racism and everything that one would ever feel let down by humanity found there.

      • MichelleO says:


        You either have to have a twitter or gmail account.

      • Xena says:

        You either have to have a twitter or gmail account.

        Sorry. I have neither.

      • @racer @ fauxmccoy

        The Orlando Sentinel is 10X’s worse. It’s really unbelievable. Either the OS can’t control it OR they’re complicit in it.

        • fauxmccoy says:

          SG – you are correct, the commentary at the OS website is unbelievable. i cannot imagine why any newspaper would allow posters to use such racist and inflammatory language. i read through the comments section on two articles and that was enough for me.

    • looneydoone says:

      I have it on good authority that other site employs insider agent provocateurs for the purpose of increasing revenues ($$clicks)

      I believe the one you pegged as gz, is rather an insider at the corp. However, there are 3 others who have thousands of posts each on only the gz threads. They spend an inordinate amount of time on the threads (15+hrs a day)and are gz’s most articulate defenders. I believe it’s those 3 who are part of the inner circle. One is a “moderator”, and master of several *dumb* sock puppets posting. All have one long gone “fan” in common (a member with a long dormant account)

      That site is playing it’s members

      • I know what site you are referring to.
        It’s become a waste of my time to try to post anything there.
        I have written comments that were on topic, didn’t insult anyone, and yet they never showed up.
        Others are having the same problem.
        Yet some of the most racist comments show up at that site.

      • racerrodig says:

        It is a waste. One of them Dino Domingo cyber stalked me and posted lies in wholesale fashion on several occasions. He stated I am homeless in fact. The rest of the Zidiots are a joke.
        As far as insiders, I have no doubt.

        No matter what, it could not be more disingenuous.

      • ladystclaire says:

        I to will be leaving the Huffington Post Black Voices site, especially after what I have read here tonight. no wonder all of the flagging and reporting wasn’t doing any good on that site. they are allowing the sock puppets to post several comments in a row, while not posting hardly any pro Martin comments. I’m through with that site as of NOW.

    • @ racerrodig……..That wouldn’t by chance be “newbee100” on HuffPo would it?…….After reading his comments, he seems like the obvious one.

    • I’ve left comments with evidence information on that site and then received a few comments back, mostly from Tray fans. And soon after, my comments are deleted because of so-called violations. I think that the Zimbot teams are flagging comments with actual information to try to keep uninformed folks from learning the real facts. That’s why I also left that site. Only go there once in a blue moon to see what they are spewing and have a good laugh.

      • ladystclaire says:

        They also tamper with other people’s notifications which is not suppose to happen there as well. I don’t understand why HP would have a site called BLACK VOICES and then allow this kind of nonsense to take place. every Martin supporter ought to leave that site and don’t look back.

      • racerrodig says:

        Same here. The Zidiots just go right down and flag every comment and it appears that after so many flags, your comments disappear. No matter what you say that is factual, you will be verbally assaulted.

        Spewing, would be the correct term.

      • I too am sick of HP. I e-mail a few of the posters personally, adn we correspond daily, but I am done with that site as well. I too believe that their are friends of G on there as well as his G himself! If that is true, they certainly are ignorant, Illiterate, immature and dumb as hell! I notice that when the facts of the case starting being posted, they would hardly post or try and retute the evidence. They absolutely despise Trent Sawyer and LLMPapa!

    • looneydoone says:

      “Ms Civility, please” is the level 1 mod , and mother of all new vile socks (first to fan them) which then flag comments from TM supporters and have them deleted.

      It’s an inside provocateur, and you’re being played for increased revenue clicks. Abandon ship, or call it out, as I do. Though those comments never see the light of day *it* knows it’s been unmasked.

      • racerrodig says:

        I’m about done there. The cesspool crowd is proud their hero killed “one of them” They are a sick group to be sure. I’ve actually gotten a few of them booted but sock puppets always return.

    • LMAO! Imagine that? Zidiots behaving in such an ignorant, intolerant manner! Remember this Race, When you speak the truth and back it up with facts, and they get angry, you know your on the right path! I wouldn’t be surprised if G was on here, He has nothing to do with his time anyway, and of course, he would be on here lying through his teeth.

      • racerrodig says:

        I believe I ferreted him out there. Some time ago I suspected it may be him by the 1st person slips in what he said. After awhile I stared to do this type of thing. “…..no George, that’s not what happened. There is no DNA that shows Trayvon even touched you” and the like. There were a few I thought might be him and the first 2 or 3 I did this to had a response that eliminated them. About the 4th one, there was never a denial. To this day I get him riled up and he still has never posted a denial.

        I’d bet all of his minions are there as well. I did the same with a SheLie suspect and she promptly vacated.

  45. cielo62 says:

    Staggering behind…

    • Two sides to a story says:

      Ha, me too, cielo. : /

      Professor, I recall you saying in a past column that specific acts of conduct, good or bad, are not admissable. Could you explain exactly why? This just does not penetrate my thick skull. It seems illogical, and it seems the court would want specific examples to support the allegations of a generally peaceful or a generally belligerant disposition.

      The only thing I can think of that would make specifics inadmissable is that these examples would have nothing to do with the case or might not even be close to the timeframe of the case. Allowing only generalities leads to the conundrum of accepting the limited value of a general and basically unsupported assertion!

      • Two sides to a story says:

        You’ve actually answered my question – “I have never been a fan of character evidence because it does not mean anything without specific acts of conduct to support it. Even if specific acts of conduct were admitted, that would not necessarily mean that the person acted in a manner consistent with that character trait at the time of the incident.”

        I take it then that character evidence is a little shaky, not consistent and subject to change.

    • heartofhearts says:


      • Groans says:

        Hi, Hearts. What does “following” mean? I see it, or some variation, here frequently and I’m stumped. (Please pardon my ignorance; I’m new at this blogging stuff. But I love this site.)

        • fauxmccoy says:

          groans – when replying with ‘following’, what you are choosing to do is receive email updates on comments.

        • Lonnie Starr says:

          When your email says there’s a new article posted, you may not have anything to respond with. So, rather than be left out of the new discussions, we click comments, then comment with “following”, as an easy way to follow the new thread.

      • heartofhearts says:

        @Groans, Yes, when you put “following” it is a way to enter something so that you can click the “notify me buttons below” the comment.

        This case has been very important to me and even though I do not have a legal background I want to understand the process and support Trayvon Martin and his family in any way that I can.

        I hold the professor in high regard along with all of his fellow posters here. This is an excellent group of people who are very passionate about this case, including those of us whose only mission is to remain steadfast for Trayvon.

    • Brown says:

      staggering way behind…

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