Zimmerman: Oh the Irony of it All!

Scales of Justice
image by DonkeyHotey on creative commons, flickr

W9 is George Zimmerman’s cousin. On Monday, July 16th at 11 am, the prosecution released her tape recorded statements to the media in which she accused George Zimmerman and his family of being racially prejudiced against African Americans and George Zimmerman specifically of sexually molesting her multiple times during a 10-year period that began when she was 6 years old and he was 8. She is now 26 and he is 28. The two families have lived in the same community and socialized together often during that period.

She said the molestation incidents involved fondling and digital penetration of her vagina. She said she finally ended the sexual abuse by getting away from him and running out of the house. She told her parents and they told his parents. Due to pressure from her parents and because she feared Zimmerman would hurt her, she decided not to report the sexual abuse to the police. After that Zimmerman was no longer invited to family social events.

She first contacted the police anonymously two days after Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon Martin, She told them he was racially prejudiced and capable of hurting people.

They interviewed her a second time after he was in jail charged with second degree murder. When they asked her why she had waited so long to report the sexual abuse, she said it was the first time she felt safe.

A virtual tsunami of outrage and disgust swept the country and the world after the media reported W9’s accusations and various news organizations posted her two tape recorded statements on their websites.

Anticipating the public furor that would follow the release of the tape recorded statements, Zimmerman’s defense attorney, Mark O’Mara, posted the following statement on his website:

The defense moved to block the public release of Witness #9’s statement in a motion filed on June 18, 2012 contending “The content of this statement is not relevant to the issues of this case, and it would not be admissible in the State’s case in chief.” The motion further contends that this irrelevant statement should be withheld from public dissemination [pursuant to Florida’s Sunshine Law] because of the substantial risk that public disclosure will lead to widespread hostile publicity which would substantially impair the Defendant’s fair trial rights, and would pose a serious threat to the administration of justice.

That request was denied on July 13, 2012 by Judge Lester. Because there is a [defense] Motion for Disqualification [of Judge Lester] pending, this morning [Monday, July 16th], we asked the prosecution not to release Witness #9’s statement until there was a ruling on the Motion for Disqualification. This is an appropriate request as, should the motion for disqualification be granted, reconsideration of recent rulings by the judge is appropriate. However, the prosecution elected to make the public disclosure anyway.

Did Mark O’Mara handle this matter appropriately, or did he fumble the ball?

For the following reasons, I contend that he fumbled the ball prejudicing his client.

Let’s review the facts, keeping in mind that W9 made two statements. Statement 1 was about race and Statement 2 was about sexual molestation.

1. 05/24/2012: State files a Request for a Protective Order seeking non-disclosure of W9’s statement;

2. 05/24/2012: Defendant’s concurrence;

3. 06/01/2012: Hearing on the Request for a Protective Order;

4. 06/13/2012: Order Denying Request for Protective Order;

5. 06/18/2012: Defendant’s Motion for Reconsideration specifically mentioning W9’s second statement (accusing defendant of sexual molestation), but not describing the subject matter;

6. 06/29/2012: State’s Response to Motion to Reconsider Disclosure;

7. 07/13/2012: Defendant’s Motion to Disqualify (filed at 11:20 am);

8. 0713/2012: Order Denying Motion for Reconsideration (filed @ 12:02 pm). Judge Lester says W9’s statement is admissible and should be released to the media because race may be an issue at trial;

9. 07/16/2012: Defendant’s Motion for Stay of Order Denying Reconsideration (filed at 10:56 am) arguing that the order must be stayed until the Motion to Disqualify is decided because it was filed first.

10. State releases W9’s two tape recorded statements at 11 am.

Keep in mind that neither side wanted to disclose the sex statement in a pleading that could be viewed by the public. Instead, O’Mara referred to statements 1 and 2, without clarifying that they involved different subject matter.

What we got here is . . . failure to communicate.

Judge Lester apparently thought both statements referred to race because he specifically said the statement might be admissible since race might be an issue. I am not surprised that he assumed both statements referred to race because the discovery released to date contains multiple recorded statements by witnesses concerning the same incident or subject matter.

The order was filed at 12:02 pm on Friday the 13th (oh, the irony), approximately 30 minutes after O’Mara filed his Motion to Disqualify. Therefore, he had Friday afternoon, the weekend, and Monday morning until 11 am to obtain an order directing the prosecution to hold off on releasing W9’s statement 2 until the matter could be reconsidered, but he did not git ‘r done.

He also did not appeal the order to the Court of Appeals.

The problem was further complicated by the judge going on vacation this past week and next week. Therefore, O’Mara had to act Friday afternoon. However, even if Judge Lester had been available Monday, he could not have acted on the motion to stop the release of W9’s statement before the prosecution released it, since the motion was filed only 4 minutes before the statement was released.

What should have been done?

An emergency oral motion and argument via conference telephone call on Friday afternoon seems to be the most obvious solution, but it did not happen. Alternatively, an emergency request for a stay before the presiding judge on Monday morning might have worked, or an emergency appeal to the Court of Appeals.

O’Mara did not attempt any of these options.

Will the evidence be admissible at trial?

Not during the State’s case in chief because it does not fall into one of the categories of admissible uncharged misconduct evidence that is admissible pursuant to Rule 404(b). If and only if the defendant were to open the door by introducing evidence that he has a law abiding, peaceful and non-violent nature, would the prosecution be able to march through the open door and confront him with W9’s accusation that he was a child molester. That is extremely unlikely to happen.

Therefore, there is no good reason to believe the evidence will be admitted at trial.

Should W9’s statement have been released to the media?

Probably not, under Florida Freedom Newspapers Inc., v. McCrary, 520 So.2d 32, 35 (Florida 1988) because:

(a) restricting public access to it was necessary to prevent a serious and imminent threat to the administration of justice;

(b) no alternative, other than a change of venue would protect Zimmerman’s right to a fair trial; and

(c) closure would be effective to protect Zimmerman’s right to a fair trial, without being broader than necessary to accomplish that purpose.

How much damage has been caused by the release of the statement?

How does one unring a bell rung round the world? The damage to Zimmerman’s defense is incalculable and the parties will not know how far and wide it may have spread until they attempt to select a jury.

Will they be able to select a jury?

Yes, I believe they will be able to eventually seat a jury of people who claim not to know about W9’s allegation or, if they do, they will claim to be able to disregard it in deciding whether the State has proven Zimmerman guilty of murder in the second degree beyond a reasonable doubt.

Sayin’ it’s so, don’t mean it’s so.

If he is convicted, will this be an issue on appeal?

Not likely. If they are able to seat such a jury and it convicts Zimmerman, a reviewing court will assume the jury followed the law and did not consider W9’s allegation in deciding the case.

If he is convicted, could this be an issue raised as an ineffective assistance of counsel claim in a state or federal habeas petition?

No, for the same reason.

Conclusion

This was an avoidable mishap that never should have happened. Mark O’Mara bears the responsibility for letting this issue slip through his fingers. But for being so busy cranking out his groundless Motion to Disqualify Judge Lester, he might have had the time and the energy to correct the problem before 11 am on Monday morning.

The convergence of coincidences is remarkable, however, almost as if this happened according to “God’s Plan.”

206 Responses to Zimmerman: Oh the Irony of it All!

  1. fauxmccoy says:

    Professor Leatherman – i have been reading your blog for several weeks, appreciate them very much, have been recommending you to friends/acquaintances and am just now commenting. what i appreciate most here is the thoughtful and respectful dialog among posters along with your generous and timely responses to questions.

    thank you kindly for doing what you do 🙂

  2. Dennis says:

    Frederick, I understand that most people are wondering what it will take to get a conviction. Many legal analysts have commented that it pretty much rides on whether the jury believes GZ’s version of the events or not. If that is the case, it seems that the prosecution would be at a serious advantage due to the fact that GZ has said so many lies and also contradicts his own story. Every prosecutor you talk to says that no case is a slam dunk but I do not see a jury siding with GZ. As you pointed out before, GZ lied about how far he supposedly “stumbled” and in reality that was at least 50 feet from where he claims the attack started. Any reasonable and intelligent person would see that lie as an attempt to alter the events to protect the fact that he pursued and tried to detain TM. The most disturbing part of all is the fact that he has no remorse for what he did and then attempts to apologize to TM’s family. You were exactly correct when you said GZ is an empty shell.

  3. GrannyStandingforTruth says:

    Notice that he said he saw one person who looked like he had “fallen and hurt himself.”

  4. Justkiddin* says:

    I have been out all day and I come back to some really great comments.
    The big flashlight did belong to Z. He told LE it did not work however the police turned it right on with no problem. I did read that information in one of the document dumps.
    So I have a question for you sharp people. The 13 year old boy walking his dog. His first statement he told LE he heard someone groaning, he only saw the one person on the ground. He said it sounded like they fell and broke their leg. Could Z have hit the tree and fell on his lying ass? Anyone else remember this statement? If so did they give the location of where he thought this happened because in my very old age I do not remember.

    Now I will try to keep this brief. GZ parked by his friends like he said. That is how TM is checking him out. TM is walking that way to go home. I believe TM ran down that street. I think he hid and I believe GZ ran after but instead of going back to his vehicle he went down the street farther, realized TM was behind him and turned to chase him. Maybe the struggle started before the dog walk. TM ask why are you following me, a small struggle TM gets away. Maybe he swung a branch and busted that freak in the face. This really pissed Z off (boy sees him down) he gets up chases him down, jumps on TM’s back. The fight for TM’s life begins and then the gun shot. I have no clue if this is what happened but it does not add up that Z went to the other street and it makes no sense the struggle started at the dog walk unless they ran down the road first and when Z lost him TM doubled back thinking he would get away when nut case realized TM was running again.

    • TruthBTold says:

      @JK,

      Yeah, I vaguely remember a statement like that but would have to go back and re-read. I know that little boy also said something about hearing someone screaming for help and he was about to or wanted to go and check, but his dog took off and he had to go and get him. Something like that. You put forth valid perspectives. If GZ was “attacked” on his way back walking his car or wherever he was going, how come TM didn’t notice him when he first walked past the T? Georgie was looking for him.

    • I actually think that Austin did, in fact, see Mr. Zimmerman on top of Mr. Martin. He said he only saw one person who looked like he had fallen and hurt himself. If two people are on the ground with one on top, a person at a distance would only see the back of the person on top, not the one on the bottom. Everything that Austin says points toward Zimmerman being on top JUST PRIOR to the gunshot, IMO.

      • Tina says:

        There was also the female witness that had just gotten home and about to let her dog out that heard someone moaning. That’s when she said she heard W6 John say he was going to call 911, she then locked and closed her door. Then the gunshot. Selma and Mary also heard someone moaning in agony prior to the shot. None of them say it was loud cries or screams. Makes you wonder if it’s at that point the ‘covering of the nose and mouth’ that GZ claims Trayvon was doing, it was actually GZ attempting to hush Trayvon. I’ve said all along that every action, and verbal threat, Trayvon is supposed to have made against GZ, that it’s actually GZ doing, saying those things.

  5. Patricia says:

    The right-hand column on the Professor’s site (Archives, etc) has a sectuion for “categories,” You can go down to “video” for GZ’s re-enactment the morning after killing Trayvon.

    GZ does seem to see that tree as his reference point (and is vague about action taken in the rest of the area).

    Georgie hardly seems beat-up, does he? But those lower branches look to be exactly the right height for close & scratchy encounter.

    Imagine if he had to admit reality, “Ummmm — I ran into a tree.”

    Brings a new meaning to the phrase “tree hugger.

    Talks about being knocked down but you don’t hear “check this location on the sidewalk for traces of blood.”

    It’s handy to go back and review GZ in his younger days, talking with his buddies, his ex-Sheriff friend just off camera, walking GZ though his spiel …

  6. Michael Stewart says:

    Hi Frederick. Busy blog today.

    In the Order To Revoke Bond dated June 1st, prosecutor de la Rionda asserted:

    “Defense Counsel also argued that all the money that was not already spent was transferred into Counsel’s trust account. The money still belongs to Defendant and he can demand it at any time.”

    Page 7, Item 20 – http://www.talkleft.com/zimm/Zimmbondrevoke.pdf

    I’m wondering if this implies that GZ has the deciding vote in how “his” money is managed and/or allocated. Does O’Mara have to clear, or rationalize every defense counsel expenditure with Zimmerman?

    Could be a tedious process, and when the issue becomes one of legal expenditures vs. personal expenditures, it could make for some rather contentious negotiations.

    Oh to be a fly on the wall!

    Thank you.

  7. Digger says:

    TruthBeTold, Sorry, I meant any claims filed for unethical practice in the past, of GZ’s Physician, also Just noticed @ Cherokeee 5:56 pm It is mentioned that a Physicians Assistant is one who saw GZ’s injuries.

  8. Olivia Ava says:

    Zimmerman appeared to be in an upbeat, elated mood running up the stairs of the police station a couple days after killing Trayvon.

  9. Olivia Ava says:

    Digger, I don’t know if the tree was checked, but doubt that it was.

    • Evelyn says:

      That would have been a stretch. However, in some ideal/fantasy world they might have taken/kept a swab of GZ’s head wounds containing residue of the material his head come in contact with.

      • momisbuff says:

        I saw no evidence that they even considered other sources for GZ’s injuries. Theres no suggestion they thought about the tree, much less swabbed it. Nor is there any report or picture of blood on any concrete. Though it was raining, there should have been some blood still evident just minutes after the shooting. I also see no indication that SPD questioned GZ’s cuts or swabbed them for the presence of other DNA or foreign matter — such as concrete. They let GZ enter the police station, wipe his feet & go to the bathroom (where they are unsure whether or not he washed his hands!!). Might they have thought to collect some evidence for residue/DNA first? From what I’ve seen so far — NOPE! If I remember correctly, the cheek swabs weren’t even obtained until the following day.

        Meanwhile, please correct me if I am wrong, but I distinctly remember swabs from the the flashlight and skittles being submitted for blood analysis & never saw results mentioned on these two items. On the blood report, even swabs that came back negative or undetermined were reported, except the Skittles and the Flashlight. Also, I see Trayvon’s cell was submitted to the crime lab w/ other clothing/ debris. Ballistics reports are released, but I see no report which discusses the trace tests on the cell phone. I’m just wondering why it seems we haven’t received all the results. Considering speculation that cell or flashlight could potentially have hit GZ (though I’m not convinced they did), this would be very relevant information to have. Did I miss it or is it, so far, unreleased?

  10. Digger says:

    Olivia, thanks for noticing the tree, perhaps GZ backed up against the tree and that is how he got the scrapes on the back of his head.
    Was the tree checked for having any blood on it?

  11. Dennis says:

    Frederick, I know I may have asked you this before, but do you know much regarding GZ’s gun holster? Many people have stated that GZ is left handed and would thus have a left-handed holster. I have not seen any pictures of his holster to confirm this. If it is a left-handed holster, it would go on your left hip. That would be very interesting considering in the reenactment, GZ pretends to grab his gun from his right hip. Your input would be greatly appreciated.

    • Two sides to the story says:

      Many lefties use right-handed holsters to either cross draw a left-handed pistol, or they use right-handed guns and shoot right-handed because there are simply fewer left-handed guns and holsters available and they cost more. Most guns eject shells to the right.

      • CherokeeNative says:

        My husband was watching a show the other night called something like “gun pawn” and the owner of the shop was test firing a gun and the shells ejected to the right and back and hit him all three times he fired on the right side of his nose below his eye causing him to bleed slightly – VERY similar to the scabs that are shown in the photos of GZ injuries. I also wonder if the slide action of the pistol did not hit him in the nose when he shot Trayvon in such close proximatey.

      • Dennis says:

        @CherokeeNative

        According to GZ’s own incriminating statements, he “aimed” and fired a round directly near TM’s heart. If someone was on top of him beating his face in “MMA” style as he claims and leaning over him at the same time, there is no way he would aim and shoot that person in the heart area. It would be much more probable for him to shoot TM somewhere other than the direct center of his chest. It would have been easier for him to shoot TM in the leg than directly in the chest as the evidence shows.

    • Two sides to the story says:

      PS – Some of the questions asked here can be verified by checking the official evidence statements and photos.

  12. Digger says:

    If someone pounded my head into cement until I thought it was going to explode… you better believe I would want to go to nearest “hospital” for full evaluation and pics.

    Does GZ personal physician have any charges against him? Has GZ ever made any comment as to WHY he chose to go to his physician and not emergency, like given his exact reason for doing so. I assume this personal Dr. will be a witness for the defense.
    I wish Hannity had questioned GZ about his decision since he was so badly beaten.

    • TruthBTold says:

      @Digger,

      “Does GZ personal physician have any charges against him?”

      What do you mean by this?

      “Has GZ ever made any comment as to WHY he chose to go to his physician and not emergency, like given his exact reason for doing so.”

      Unsure why he chose this option and hasn’t to date given an explanation, but ultimately the only reason why he even went to the doctor was for work-related reasons. This was already revealed at the last bond hearing when MOM was putting on his mini-trial and tried to gloss over it. He didn’t go on his own to check himself out.

  13. Olivia Ava says:

    TruthBTold @ 3:59 pm – yep, his police lingo included the term “firearm” instead of gun.

    Wonder if the prosecutors have a list of all the instances in which he used police terms or phrases when telling his version of events.

    • TruthBTold says:

      @Olivia Ava,

      Oh please let’s not forget “the visual.” That one is a goodie.

      • CherokeeNative says:

        Or…this one…”they cleared the house…” speaking of LE responding to a break-in at the development.

  14. Michael Stewart says:

    Right Evelyn, thank you. I only caught that on re-read. The direction was westbound on the sidewalk from the vicinity of RVC > towards the T-intersection. This theory would imply that GZ took off on a second sprint after he terminated the NEN call.

    I’m doubtful that Z ever made his way to RVC, or that he ever ventured east of the T-intersection. His “I went to get an address” explanation sounded more like a spontaneous cover story, than a credible statement of events.

    I currently favor the notion that Z immediately scurried south at the T-intersection after leaving his vehicle, only abandoning his pursuit when we hear him say; “he ran,” on the NEN recording.

  15. Olivia Ava says:

    Evelyn, I hadn’t thought about the tree being the source of his scratches. Now I am.

    I’ve thought that the rustling a witness heard was Zimmerman in the bushes. I’ve thought that he scratched his face in the bushes.

    But, never thought about him running into the tree until your bringing it up triggered my memory of him looking intently at the tree during “his reenactment”.

    • masonblue says:

      There really aren’t any bushes that would have come into play because they are too little.

      • Olivia Ava says:

        Yes, you’re probably right about that because the bushes don’t look more than a few feet tall.

      • TruthBTold says:

        Oh Professor, you wise man. But let GZ tell it as he did to Det. Singleton that TM jumped out from the bushes. Those bushes are quite short and looked close to/pushed up against the wall of the houses.

      • Unabogie says:

        What would clear this up is if someone saw where George parked his car that night. Unfortunately, the police did not impound the car (they probably didn’t realize he was out “going to the store”) and so he called Shellie and she moved the car.

        There are many issues with the timeline: missing minutes where Trayvon’s whereabouts are unknown, the 84 seconds George spent on RVC “looking for an address”, but all of it stems from his version of where he first saw Trayvon and where he exited his truck. His implausible version of times and places ruins our ability to piece together a coherent narrative. I think anyone listening to the not911 can tell that his walkthrough doesn’t match that call, so something that would fit better is if George started out of his car much sooner, or from a different location. That would explain why Trayvon ran, but ended up at the house 50 feet south of the T and not at his home. It would explain why DeeDee heard an angry and out of breath George confronting Trayvon. I somehow think that they didn’t follow the same path. Trayvon’s phone was found (according to Google Maps) some 15 feet south of his body. George’s stuff was found north of the body. That’s makes me wonder if the fight didn’t start from the south when George cut down on Twin Trees and then circled back up to keep Trayvon from “getting away”. After he killed the boy, he walked away towards the north and dropped some of his items, perhaps even to establish his cover story. I don’t know though.

        Again, if Shellie hadn’t moved the truck without telling the police, we’d know much better. She was filling a role that would later get her charged with perjury…

        • TruthBTold says:

          @Unabogie,

          Good post and I agree. I’ve believed for some time that GZ caught up to/cut Trayvon off. That might explain what he was doing for that minute and some change considering the time TM and DeeDee’s phone call got cut off and the police arriving more or less a minute later. No surprise that GZ has not been forthright about this incident. A timeline re-creation is extremely important to this case. Something else that’s been bugging me for a while, is Tracy Martin’s crime scene visit and what was told to him as far as how TM’s body was positioned. He stated that his feet was on the concrete with his body on the grass. ????

        • TruthBTold says:

          Unabogie wrote,

          “I think anyone listening to the not911 can tell that his walkthrough doesn’t match that call, so something that would fit better is if George started out of his car much sooner, or from a different location.”

          Prior to GZ saying “oh crap, he’s running,” I don’t hear him exiting and re-entering his car, so it’s more that he started from a different location. Even the detectives were a little perplexed when they were trying to make sense of his narrative. Listen to the 2/29 part 3 audio.

  16. Olivia Ava says:

    Evelyn says:
    July 22, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    “There is a tree there in that spot, and it is possible that it was the tree, and not TM, that attacked GZ, or at least scraped up his face.”

    In “his reenactment” Zimmerman stops and looks directly at that tree –

    He turns his head and eyeballs the tree at about the location of the lower branch.

    He gazes into it, sort of trance like, as though he is reminiscing or studying it.

    Why stare at the tree like that if it is not of any significance?

    He didn’t stare at the concrete or grass like he did the tree.

    • Two sides to the story says:

      This is making me go back to watch the re-enactment video again!

    • Evelyn says:

      Totally agree. He was practically running into the tree during the reenactment. He definitely had an awkward relationship with it.

  17. TruthBTold says:

    Why in the world was GZ referring to TM as the suspect in his handwritten statement? *smh* As the famous Dr. Henry Lee said in the O.J. Simpson case, “There’s something wrong here.”

    • GZ identified so strongly with being a cop that he engaged in cop-speak and, of course, he was attempting to persuade them that he was on their team in order to influence their thinking.

      • TruthBTold says:

        @Professor,

        So true. He was even using terms like visual and firearms which are heavily used by law enforcement officials. Did you see when he was trying to make small talk with Det. Singleton (the video where he was given the voice stress analysis) asking her has she ever shot someone? He really thought he was one of them or someone in an authoritative position. Talk about a wannabe that ain’t never going to be. Ha!

      • Olivia Ava says:

        He was still pretending to be a cop when he referred to Trayvon as “the subject” in the statement he wrote at the police station.

        What a player.

      • Michael Stewart says:

        “GZ identified so strongly with being a cop that he engaged in cop-speak and, of course, he was attempting to persuade them that he was on their team in order to influence their thinking.”

        They say “a picture tells a thousand words.”

        This one speaks volumes:

        “You can sleep well America, knowing that we, the brave & courageous officers of the LAPD, have got your back.”

        or

        “Look at me; I’m a cop!”

      • Tina says:

        @TBT

        I picked up on that too. Ironically, if you look at the bottom of that statement where Singleton signs her name…it reads: Statement contains, and she writes, ‘suspect statement’, not shooter/victim, witness, or person of interest. They knew GZ and his story were ‘suspect’ from the get go.

        • I believe you may be reading a little too much into that statement. He was a suspect in a possible homicide at that point because he had admitted killing TM, so his statement was labeled a suspect statement, as in a statement by the suspect, rather than a characterization of the statement as suspicious.

          That’s routine police procedure.

      • Tina says:

        @Professor,

        I understand your point. However, I was implying that GZ, in his twisted mind, in an attempt to identify with law enforcement, would make the assumption calling Trayon a ‘suspect’. But, during his brief moment in custody, I doubt he thought of himself, or that even the detectives, considered him a suspect. It’s his intention to convince everyone he’s the victim.

  18. TruthBTold says:

    Professor wrote,

    “I do not believe he ever walked over to RVC.”

    I am of this belief as well. Also, after the dispatcher realized that he took off at TM and once told “we don’t need you to do that,” GZ was on the phone for additional minute and some change. Why did he never produce an address? He is so full of it. If y’all remember especially in the re-enactment, he was behaving as if the dispatcher was pressing him for this “address,” which we all know is not true.

    “He may not have parked where he said he parked”

    Agree here as well. Even when questioned by the detectives, they were seemingly confused as to where he was at at various points throughout the call. He’s just a liar. Point blank.

  19. aussie says:

    Both the big flashlight and keychain flashlight belong to GZ. He is heard banging it to make it work, while running after TM. He later uses trying to make it work as his excuse for hanging around at the T for 1 1/2 minutes after ending his phone call.

    Although his description of the fight makes out Trayvon to have 4 – 8 arms, he doesn’t claim this multi-dexterity for himself. He can not have had one hand in a pocket holding a gun, another hand holding the phone, another hand holding the keys/flashlight and another 2 banging on the big one to get it going.

    Here’s a copy of my post on bcclist.com of how I think it went down:
    =========
    The shadows chasing went south to north. First argument was north and moved south. Then fight and shooting.

    So 3 encounters. Or 3 stops on the one encounter. Won’t go quietly at gunpoint to the T and then start arguing loudly. “Don’t shoot” was never heard, or anything to indicate a gun visible at that point.

    The debris field is from 2 visits to the same spot. And GZ may be telling the truth about the smack on the nose at the T.

    Two flashlights. Small one on = big one not working or NOT THERE. Why not pocket the big one if it wasn’t working?

    First contact halfway down the path. GZ shining the big torch in TM’s eyes. TM takes a swing with bag containing tea. Phone, tea and flashlight fall.

    They keep running north, GZ takes out small light. More argument and shouting. TM throws a punch. GZ goes down. Loses small flashlight.

    TM runs south again. Looks for phone. Perhaps to call the cops. Finds and pockets the tea. MAY find phone. GZ turns up. More yelling. GZ draws gun. TM tackles him to the ground and tries to stop him lifting the gun arm. Screams for help in holding him.

    Total 170 ft for round trip, 30 secs at full run. 60 secs allowing for stopping for the punching. Add 60 secs for yelling for help. There’s the “missing” 2 minutes.

  20. Evelyn says:

    “Seems like he was not interested in recruiting people.”

    Been wondering about that. Were there any other members of the Neighborhood Watch committee? Frank T.?

    • Dennis says:

      I feel that is strange that he did not want other members. In my previous neighborhood, there were multiple people per street on Neighborhood Watch. His neighborhood has at least 3 or 4 streets which would make it difficult for one person to watch the whole place. It seems like he wanted to be the single lone armed vigilante on the prowl.

      • GrannyStandingforTruth says:

        Could it be that he did not recruit anymore people for the neighborhood watch because of what suuzie and I were thinking that George and his father-in-law had something to do with those burgaries? It is possible that all those phone calls complaining about suspicious blacks that George was making was a diversion tactic, “blame the black guy.” George knew it would be easier to make black males out of the villians. His plan was to use Trayvon as a scapegoat. My mother used to tell me whenever you see someone always pointing a finger at someone, they’re trying to keep you from looking at them.

      • I believe you just scored a Bingo.

    • TruthBTold says:

      If I am understanding and remembering correctly, no one else was interested.

    • momisbuff says:

      The FBI reports (this doc dump) include one neighbor, who was also a NW Captain. NW, he indicates, was very “loosely formed” and being a “Captain” held no specific authority. There was no hierarchy. He quit after about December, without telling anyone because there was” no one to tell.” He was aware of GZ being part of NW, but he never specifically interacted with him. So, GZ not only did not recruit, he did not even connect with the one or two others who indicated an active interest and actual participation.

  21. Evelyn says:

    I thought that bigger flashlight also belonged to GZ. But maybe not.

    • Two sides to the story says:

      George did own the bigger flashlight. It had dead batteries and he can be heard in the 911 NEN call tapping on it, trying to get it to work.

  22. Evelyn says:

    I’ve been mildly puzzled by the light abrasions on GZ’s face until someone – – actually a guy named Trent Sawyer, who has done an enormous amount of work with videos on You Tube — pointed out the obvious: the two trees between where GZ claims to have been standing on the east-west sidewalk and the point further south where TM died. I think GZ probably ran into the trees and smacked himself up a bit in his haste to capture TM. Maybe it was even a tree that attacked him and knocked him flat on his back.

    I’d like to know more about the movement and direction of the screams. And the screams, to my ear, are decidedly in the changing voice of an adolescent male.

    • ajamazin says:

      I think you are absolutely correct about Zimmerman’s mild facial abrasions.

      I have no doubt that Zimmerman could have run into the tree.

      If Zimmerman “was knocked down”, I think it was because he slipped and fell due to the doggy doo, his own clumsiness, or the wet concrete or grass.

      Or maybe he tripped over one of his own lies.

      • Evelyn says:

        I agree GZ probably slipped. Likely they both did.

      • Dennis says:

        I have actually run into a tree before at night, so that is plausible. It is also plausible for GZ and/or TM to have slipped on the wet grass. Unless you are wearing the proper sports shoes, you will most likely slip when running fast over wet grass.

    • I think Trent Sawyer is right.

      I have been puzzled by the location of GZ’s keychain and flashlight (Item 1 in the diagram and overlay) and his observation may solve that puzzle.

      As GZ was running after TM heading w/b on the sidewalk toward the T-intersection and RVC, did he cut the corner to head s/b between the two rows of townhouses and run smack into the branch of a tree in the dark dropping his keychain and flashlight near the base of the tree?

      Might this collision not only explain the light scratches on his face, perhaps caused by smaller branches that branch off from a larger branch that he smacked into face first, but also explain the injury to his nose and the location of his key chain and flashlight?

      I can visualize this happening in the dark with or without that flashlight on, assuming he had it in his hand.

      Or, it might have fallen out of his pocket, if the collision knocked him to the ground.

      I think he had the gun in his hand and his hand in his pocket when he went after TM and he may have dislodged the key chain and flashlight as he pulled it out or reached for it.

      I doubt he had the flashlight on because I think he would have been concerned that it would make him a visible target.

      He could easily have run smack into the tree while navigating blind in the dark.

      Therefore, all the damage to his face was caused by his collision with the tree and the two cuts to the back of his head were caused after he picked himself up off the ground, pulled out his gun, and ran after TM, tackling and taking him down to the ground as TM struggled and hit the back of his head while gripping his cell phone.

      Here’s JD’s overlay with the total station.

      Make sense?

      • ajamazin says:

        Your explanation covers all the bases and is the only one I have heard that is plausible.

      • Dave says:

        I disagree on one point. Trayvon’s phone would have been useless as a weapon. It’s small, light in weight, and has smooth rounded corners and edges. Besides, it appears to be undamaged and without traces of blood. On the other hand, the 6” long tactical flashlight (which had blood on it) is a very likely source for GZ’s wounds, wielded either by Trayvon or GZ himself.

        If it came down to a struggle for the gun, though, Trayvon would have been better off with his hands empty so he could wrestle for it. I think it most likely that he dropped the phone.

        • I don’t know because I wasn’t there, but I’ve never thought there was much force behind the blows that caused the two small cuts on the back of his head.

          I would not have expected any damage to the phone.

          There is no question he dropped the phone at some point because it was a few feet south of his body lying in the grass. It’s Item 7 in the debris field.

          Do we know to whom the 6″ tactical flashlight belonged?

          IIRC, it belonged to the neighbor who arrived at the scene of the shooting just before the first cop Tim Smith) arrived.

      • Evelyn says:

        “Might this collision not only explain the light scratches on his face, perhaps caused by smaller branches that branch off from a larger branch that he smacked into face first, but also explain the injury to his nose and the location of his key chain and flashlight?”

        Except, unless GZ had ahold of TM, wouldn’t TM have gotten away? Very possibly GZ was holding TM, given the reported “get off, get off,” even as GZ collided with the tree. One thing we do know, GZ was determined to not let TM get away.

      • CommonSenseForChange says:

        If it happened that way, Zimmerman would be mad as hell. Angry = depraved.

      • Michael Stewart says:

        “As GZ was running after TM heading w/b on the sidewalk toward the T-intersection and RVC, did he cut the corner to head s/b between the two rows of townhouses and run smack into the branch of a tree in the dark dropping his keychain and flashlight near the base of the tree?’

        After leaving his vehicle on the fly, Zimmerman continued speaking with NEN for approximately 2min (uninterrupted). We hear audible ‘wind sounds,’ indications that Zimmerman is ‘running,’ indications that he eventually stopped running, and later we hear a ‘tapping’ sound, but we don’t hear any background sounds that would indicate he ran into a tree and fell down.

        ?

        • If that happened, it would have happened after he hung up.

          I do not believe he ever walked over to RVC.

          He may not have parked where he said he parked.

          He probably parked back near the Clubhouse and walked/ran from there.

          I don’t think he skipped, however.

          But he might be thinking about skipping now.

      • Evelyn says:

        “…but we don’t hear any background sounds that would indicate he ran into a tree and fell down.”

        That would be because he had hung up the phone. The events we are speculating about happen in the dark in the minutes between the call ending and TM dying. There is a tree there in that spot, and it is possible that it was the tree, and not TM, that attacked GZ, or at least scraped up his face.

    • ajamazin says:

      I doubt Trayvon slipped.

      • Evelyn says:

        The grass was wet, as you point out. It’s possible they both slipped and fell down together while struggling. That’s all I meant.

  23. GrannyStandingforTruth says:

    This is one of the reasons Fox We Make It Up News should be banned and taken completely off the air.

    http://www.newshounds.us/fox_nation_readers_think_trayvon_martin_got_what_he_deserved_07212012

    Smh!

    • Two sides to the story says:

      What’s sad and perplexing is that these racists also hotly deny that they are racists – most will claim that they’re simply concerned with the high level of crime, which they gladly point out is caused mostly by blacks and will support their arguments with prison data. They love to twist and turn logic on its head and decry anyone concerned with civil rights as racist, especially black civil rights leaders. These folks are almost impossible to have any real discussion with.

    • TruthBTold says:

      I will not even entertain the vileness that I am sure is permeating throughout that site. We all have a good idea of a lot of the views of extremists and those on the other side who are often associated with Fox News. I actually feel sorry for those people. It truly must suck to be them.

  24. GrannyStandingforTruth says:

    *function normal again*

  25. GrannyStandingforTruth says:

    What I find interesting is that for GZ to claim that his head was banged repeatedly on the concrete he was not disorientated, no loss of hearing, and no blurred vision or dizziness. He was able to “aim” and fire a gun, straddle a dead victim, walk around normal without any help, answer questions, and give his side of the story.

    The reason I have a big problem with that is because back some years ago, I slipped, fell and hit my head hard on the concrete and had all those symptoms. My head only hit the concrete once. I was so out of it that the person I was with had to hold me up to help me walk. Trust me speaking from experience, when your head hits that concrete your body is there, but you in a sense are not. It took approximately an hour or two for me to normally function again and the Dr. said I had a mild concussion.

    • ajamazin says:

      But don’t forget that Zimmerman was suffering from Shaken Cry Baby Syndrome!!!

    • Dennis says:

      I agree. Nobody that has their head smashed into the concrete multiple times is going to deny EMT and they will surely go to the hospital. He had two scrapes on his head which didn’t even require stitches. I’m not quite sure how he received those two scrapes, because it surely isn’t the result of multiple head bashings. People that have their head smashed like GZ claims will usually experience a concussion, headache, dizziness, etc… I am assuming that the medical experts for the prosecution will rip GZ to shreds regarding his claims of concrete head bashing.

    • TruthBTold says:

      @GSFT,

      You are absolutely right. If it happened the way he claims, he would have been scrambled. Also, it is a challenge to grip someone’s head in that position and continously forcefully back and forth slam their head to the degree he claims. It’s just difficult. If it was with the two hands as I believe he claims, wouldn’t there be scrapes on TM’s fingers before the knuckles because his hands would be hitting the concrete as well?

  26. Digger says:

    There would have been blood spewing all over the place if it all went down like GZ claims God wanted him to handle it.

    How about the rain, anything slippery about the cement or grass
    that would have contributed to them going down? I can even believe that GZ was never on the ground like he says. It may have been GZ over Trayvon after he shot him. Now I know there was a witness that said Trayvon was over GZ but how sure was that witness, I think she also said she could not see “clearly.”

  27. Patricia says:

    Professor Leatherman, thanks for your posters for directing me back to the original documents .

    I had asked: was GZ’s blood all over TM’s hands (discovery: autopsy) given GZ’s over-the-top, ever-increasing, super-dramatic, replay of Trayvon supposedly giving Georgie’s head a thwacking on the concrete dogwalk, repeatedly, like trying to crack open a coconut?

    The Hannity interview shows GZ is relying on this alibi more than ever, and the story has grown by chapters since GZ first unspooled it to the friendly local detectives the morning after the homicide.

    It is the key to GZ’s alibi: that he was in fear for his life.

    First, let’s look at the description of the severity of GZ’s wounds, as reported (page 182), per Michael Brady, EMT/Paramedic of Sanford FD: “Pt [patient, Zimmerman] has abrasions to his forehead, + bleeding/tenderness to his nose, and a small laceration to the back of his head. All injuries have minor bleeding. ”

    Now, George has never discussed how he fell on the dogwalk on his nose and/or head during his ruckus with TM, but admits he went down. So let’s look at the fallout of the claimed terrifying head-bashing he says he received at Trayvon’s hands.

    First, did GZ did have at least some blood on his head (consistent with a tumble, but hardly consistent with a beating at the hands of TM). GZ reporting much punching and headbanging by TM. But GZ was unwilling to undergo medical examination, although urged to by the police officers he claimed a brotherhood to.

    Consider this: it’s a muggy night in Florida and assuming GZ took a shower that morning it’s at least 12 hours since GZ ‘s face was washed. Lotsa sweat and skin oil on that face, especially during the heat of mortal combat. And GZ had that scruffy goatee – stuff gets caught in facial hair.

    So if Trayvon Martin was cracking GZ’s head repeatedly on the dogwalk (holding onto GZ’s ears?) and repeatedly punching him, wouldn’t GZ’s DNA – blood, sweat and tears – be all over the flying fists of that fierce Trayvon Martin?

    The skinny kid who had celebrated his 17th birthday,
    just three weeks earlier?

    Since GZ readily identified hiself at the scene of the crime, there was no problem in getting cooperative George to submit to buccal swabs (inside the mouth, cheek-side) to identify his DNA. (“JR-2”)

    So how much of that terrified GZ-DNA was all over TM’s hands?

    Page 104 of the initial document dump starts the report by FDLE’s Crime Laboratory Analyst, Biology Section, Anthony Gogone’s:

    George Michael Zimmerman’s DNA profile, “JR-2” is all over the holster, for example, which is Exhibit DMS-21D.

    On page 106, we find exhibit ME-2, consisting of fingernail scrapings from Trayvon Benjamin Martin (“ME-3”) with TM’s right and left hands identified as ME-2A (right) and ME-2B.

    TM is right-handed.

    Fingernail scrapings are examined because all the crud you collect on your hands ends up there; it’s a treasure trove of information.

    As reported, “Fingernail scrapings represented as being fromTrayvon Benjamin Martin Exhibit ME-2A gave chemical indicatons for the presence of blood.”

    The report continues: “Exhibit ME-2A Rght Hand: no DNA foreign to Trayvon Benjamin Martin (ME-3) were found on Exhibit ME-2A.”

    Got that? NO DNA FOREIGN TO TRAYVON BENJAMIN MARTIN was found – just his own blood (scratch a mosqito bite, the coroner will discover it.)

    And for the left hand? “No DNA results were obtained from Exhibit ME-2B.”

    What more do you need to prove that Chicken George is lying about the trivial “beating” he got from Trayvon Martin?

    It’s all in the State’s lab report.

    Remember, Zimmerman was charged because the INCONSISTENCIES of his story did not match the results of the investigation.. You’ve just read a major one.

    Too bad Hannity’s researcher didn’t spend an hour or two on the reports. Hannity could have had a riveting broadcast. Instead, the Sean Hannity whitwash attempt has made him the pariah of network TV – a shill.

    • Yes, you’re right about no blood on TM’s hands and there was no injury on his hands, except for a small cut on the underside of his ring finger in the location where a ring normally would be worn.

      Not sure because I am doing this from memory, but I don’t believe any of GZ’s blood was on the cuffs and sleeves of bis sweatshirt either.

  28. Digger says:

    You usually have to GET a passport to enter into the country you are headed for, so I can see how it is likely misinterpreted.

    It is not a matter of leaving it is a matter of entering! I suppose y’all got it worked out before I ever got in here on the new post. lol

    Excellent post Professor! You are a busy bugger!

  29. Nef05 says:

    “The convergence of coincidences is remarkable, however, almost as if this happened according to “God’s Plan.” ”

    One of the things I enjoy most about this site, is your tendency to drop “dry witticisms” into your posts and responses. Thank you for another well thought out and insightful post, that is only one among many.

  30. suuzie says:

    Professor Leatherman, I was impressed when Judge Lester and the prosecutor on several occassions when I thought Judge Lester would scold O’Mara, he instead said he believed him and said he was satisfied with the excuse he gave about the second passport. The prosecutor also said on several occassions that O’Mara was an upstanding attorney when to me on both occassions he was not being completely truthful.

    Why was the judge and the prosecutor so willing to believe in O’Mara regarding passport and allowing GZ family to testify via telephone without objection and then O’Mara seeming to stab the judge in the back the first chance he got? It appears the defense rules the courtroom.

    • I don’t know.

      They have history though and have known him a long time.

      • This latest motion requesting that Judge Lester step down may put a bit of a rift in their history. I am sure the Honorable Judge Lester, and his colleagues for that matter, won’t view this latest action very highly. I can’t believe that Mr. O’Mara wil sacrifice his professional relationships for a pro bono case such as this.

  31. Patricia says:

    If Judge Lester were to revoke GZ’s bail again (for contacting the Martin family and for access to his PayPal account) and take GZ back into custody BEFORE Shellie’s hearing, Shellie is free from GZ’s control (just don’t take his calls).

    In return for her testimony against George, the State can cut a plea bargain with Shellie: suspended sentence, and provision for ten years in the witness protection program, and visual makeover with unlimited credit card at Nordstrom. Oh, and she gets custody of Oso (the dog).

    Her parents should be push, push, pushing this.

  32. ed nelson says:

    “Oh the humanity”… or… irony… ( or?)

    [“A virtual tsunami of outrage and disgust swept the country and the world after the media reported W9’s accusations “]
    Just reading here… my [conscious streaming ], as I read the post, Fred is first up I welled a bit of umbrage taken at the development of this old sideline ruse: (” Have you quite beating your wife Mr Jones? ” ) an old dodge nowadays merged with… just about any sex related ‘aberration’ (so to say), to use as sort of a… ‘substitute in the hole’ when needed.
    Well that is how I thought of bringing in sex questions about character in this slam dunk type deal… …. … The guy isn’t rich…= ( isn’t OJ ).

    1 BUT! he is the champion of a certain set!
    1. So… putting this point aside for the moment.
    __________________

    #2… ok, just so it get’s an airing:… didn’t anybody think mabee like if the judge quarter might… well maybe there might be… a cheering section comprised of… judges and, well, wannabe judges… a contingent of… or just let’s say, the kid has a few guys that his dad is associated with on the bench, and that is better than not. To wit: he has some cards to play, being a son of a judge.

    I don’t approve of the kinds of sentinences that are given for crimes in general: like locking them up in a box for no good purpose, for no possibility of any good outcome, and no productive purpose like was the practice in old times… clean up the hiways… make liscense plates, bale jute… and onanon… That said, of course the dangerous creeps should be locked up, or farmed out to plantations somewhere’s.

    #3… That there is a concerted effort to spring this poor fool, because he reflects an extremely held version of reality, where it is thought ok to kill anything like a neegra!
    what fun it was to waste all those gooks, arabbs, and all that… [ dehumanize, and so forth, and then go kill em! ].

    #4 As I said yesterday: the war is on!! And that war is with all of us… usual folks, and so called… ” middle class folks”, I would draw this out a little more, but I must go to the next point…

    #5.

    I mean not to go against the PTB, but, uh… like the poor kid is the spawn of a… certain… member of a tribe/judicial establishment… dahdada.

    So my grab is: that, the members of the tribe… members of the judiciary… Hallowed be thy name. (no I don’t mean anything by that…!)

    Well without going into… detail, the f’n schlock is a son of some… member of the tribe, or he would be kittylitter already.

    What is going on should give intellectual lawyers like you a great field of something, in your way of to explain things… in the vein of how court cases are

  33. GrannyStandingforTruth says:

    Well, should we be expecting O’Mara to be brought up before the Bar in the future? The more that comes out the more unethical he is beginning to look in my opinion. I do not believe anything he says either. However, I do know that one and one is two, but it can also be eleven.

    The Love of money never fails to bring out the worse in people.

  34. crazy1946 says:

    The mention of the duplicate passport brings up another small problem that no one has mentioned. Zimmerman’s mother is a native of Peru and as such is a citizen of that country, and because of that Georgie holds dual citizenship. Does anyone wish to bet he also holds a passport from Peru? Even without a passport, one could easily escape from this country, I fly to our second home in Central America every few weeks and the only time I am asked for papers is when I land my plane here in the US. Trust me, if Zimmerman decides to rabbit he will be gone in the blink of an eye! As far as wittness #9, I expect that some how that her statement will end up involved in the trial, probably because of some stupid statement made by Zimmerman, but that is just speculation on my part!
    Professor Leatherman, I asked before and perhaps you did not notice the question, does Florida law allow a person with assets enough to post bond, to be furnished an attorney at the states expense? I know that some other states position is that if you have enough money to bond out you have enough for a lawyer, does that apply here as well? My point is that Zimmerman might be boxing himself into a corner he can not fight his way out of!

    • ajamazin says:

      Zimmerman’s mother is a not a native of Peru.
      She was teaching in Peru when she came to Washington, D.C.

      A passport is not required to leave the US.
      A passport is required to return to the US however.

      Peruvian citizenship can be purchased for $25,000.

      • Two sides to the story says:

        I don’t quite understand why people say you don’t need a passport to leave the US. There are reciprocal visa agreements with Canada, Mexico, and most nations in the West Indies and you can enter those without a passport; however, you can’t get on a plane for most other destinations without a US passport. I don’t know how that works by sea or land . . .

      • crazy1946 says:

        Several times early in this case, Robert Zimmerman when defending his son, said that his wife was a native of Peru as was Georges grandmother. Now if you have information that shows that to be incorrect, I would be very interested in seeing it. Please note, I am not implying you are wrong, only that we have been told otherwise in the past. I’m not sure there is anyone in Zimmerman’s direct family that is truthful.

      • ajamazin says:

        How do you define international flight?

        • Two sides to the story says:

          If you’re headed to France, for example (or any country without the reciprocal visa agreement) from any location in the US, you’ll need a passport to check into your flight at the airport, even if your flights starts with a leg on a domestic carrier. For example, perhaps you buy a round trip on Air France, but the trip begins with a domestic carrier from New Orleans to New York before you board Air France to hop the pond. Still gotta show that passport to board the initial flight. Then you’re going to present it again to board the international portion of your flight from New York to Paris (or other city), and you’re going to present it again – or at least filling out a visa form with your passport number – as you pass through customs at your destination. And you’re subject to showing it if any authority should ask for it anywhere you go at your overseas / outside the US destination, (except Canada, Mexico and the West Indies [Caribbean Islands]. You may have to show it just to take a river or ocean ferry between two countries once you’ve already landed at a foreign destination. There are all sorts of reasons you can’t travel without a US passport.

      • ajamazin says:

        Two sides to the story,

        This is about Zimmerman fleeing the country not me.

        • Two sides to the story says:

          :] On the illegal side, I’m sure GZ could disappear sans passport into Mexico or the West Indies and make his way elsewhere with fake documents if he had the opportunity and the connections to do so. However, I’ve witnessed people being pulled off an international flight by US Customs agents because they either had fake US passports or were suspected of having fake passports. Authorities made the entire planeload of people show their passports to get into a particular EU airport, and we stood shivering in sub-zero temps as authorities checked every single passenger before allowing anyone inside. It’s eerie to watch agents look at passports with jeweler’s loupes and then swiftly and quietly pull people out of line and into oblivion.

    • ajamazin says:

      “The Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative, effective June 2009, mandates that all United States citizens and residents leaving the country present a valid U.S. passport to U.S. customs officials upon their return trip.

      This includes persons traveling to Mexico, Canada and the Caribbean islands. Each country has visa and passport requirements for foreign visitors, so get the specifics before boarding the plane.

      Some do not require that U.S. citizens be valid passport holders. Regardless of your destination, however, you will need to present one on the way home. “

      • Two sides to the story says:

        Yes, agreed. Just three destinations that US citizens can enter without a passport, but need a passport to return to the US. Otherwise, you must have a US passport to leave the US on international flights to any other destination: Central and S. America, Africa, Europe, Asia, Pacific Islands, Oz / New Zealand, etc. etc. You can’t buy an international airline ticket or fly without a valid US passport.

    • ajamazin says:

      I stand by my answer:
      A passport is not required to leave the US.
      A passport is required to return to the US however.

      • Two sides to the story says:

        You’re dead wrong about leaving the US without a passport, unless you’re going to Canada, Mexico or Caribbean, or going somewhere by sneak or by stealth somehow. You try it some time and see how far you get!

    • In Gideon v. Wainright, the SCOTUS interpreted the Sixth Amendment right to counsel as imposing an obligation on the states through the 14th Amendment Due Process Clause to provide counsel at public expense for indigent defendants.

      Approximately 80-85% of the people charged with felonies are unable to pay a lawyer to represent them. The cost of counsel is paid out of the court budgets and the courts have developed guidelines they apply in determining whether to appoint counsel. Sometimes, they will require a person to make a monthly financial contribution to defray part of the costs and fees paid to their lawyers by the courts.

      I don’t know how they handle things in Florida.

      GZ is in a unique situation with the donations. As long as a significant flow of money is coming in, he won’t qualify for court appointed counsel. If he runs out of money, he can always apply to the court and if he qualifies, they would orginarily appoint his lawyer to finish out the case. Compensation would be at the usual rates, however, and not the rates in the fee agreement.

      I realize I didn’t really answer your question. Since I do not know specifics about Florida, I can only sketch the big picture.

      Hope my answer helps.

      If not, ask again.

      • crazy1946 says:

        You answer was good on most of what I asked, thank you. I still am curious if as long as Zimmerman is free on bond, can he be appointed an attorney to represent him at the states expense? That perhaps is a question that not relevant, but with the way MOM and Zimmerman are talking now, it seems as money may shortly become a major issue! Of course, if I read the agreement with the bonding company correctly, when the money runs out and he can’t pay for them to baby sit him, then he goes back home to jail! Hope they left the light burning for him! 🙂

        • I haven’t seen a copy of of the agreement and was only speculating that there might be such an agreement.

          Others here have stated that is not the case, so he won’t be going back to jail if he can no longer pay for the security entourage, assuming they are right.

          I believe there would be a Sixth Amendment violation of GZ’s right to counsel, if O’Mara and West withdrew due to his lack of money and inability to pay them and he could not afford to retain another lawyer.

          That he may have exhausted his funds to bond out, which he had a right to do, cannot be used against him to deny him a lawyer.

          The wiser course of action for him may have been to stay in jail and use the money to pay his lawyer instead of throwing it away on the bail bondsman, but that was his choice, nevertheless.

          I cannot say that O’Mara’s representation so far has accomplished much except to permit him to hurt himself. Of course, dealing with your lawyer at arms length and communicating with him on a need to know basis is colossal stupidity.

      • KA says:

        Their interpretation of “running out of money” and everyone elses’ idea is completely relevant. 1000/day would be considered respectable money in any profession this side of Hollywood. His gifts for this year have been almost 400K. He is gaining new “gifts” in the amount of 30K a month approx (at least that has been trended) and he has no debt now. I seriously doubt that would qualify for much in the way of “financial help” It is not anyone’s fault they are spending unneeded money on lavish security detail.

      • crazy1946 says:

        Professor Leatherman, Perhaps my question is based on a suspicion, due to the less than good control of damage that MOM has exibited in his dealings with Zimmerman recently, I have started to suspect that MOM is actually attempting to land his client back into jail. Now the motive behind that could be that while Zimmerman was in jail the money flowed in to the fund very freely, but once Zimmerman was out on bond the money started drying up. I can think of no other logical reason that he would have allowed his client to put his head in the noose and step off the chair while in that Fox News Press Conference! Can you honestly think of another reallistic reason that he would have? Once Zimmerman is returned to his new home, could MOM then take much of the money that is left and then plead poverty for his client and then have the state start paying a small part of the bill assuming the donations do not increase? Or would the money still be an issue for the court? I hope this rambling question makes a little sense? Thank you for your patience, I really think sometimes we strain your brain to the max with difficult questions…..

        • I think you are overthinking the situation. I don’t believe any lawyer would do that to his client for the paltry sum of money left in the account, plus the pittance paid to court appointed counsel. The 10-year incestuous-molestation accusation by W9 is likely to substantially curtail, if not eliminate the internet donations, and I do not believe putting GZ back in jail is going to turn that around.

          No, I think we’re seeing a totally out-of-control client calling all the shots as his lawyer stands by aghast at what he is doing, but powerless to stop him. O’Mara’s role is basically limited to efforts at damage control.

    • ajamazin says:

      crazy1946,

      Here is Zimmerman’s mother.
      http://www.twitpic.com/9qdym3

      Robert W. Zimmerman was his grandfather.
      He married Silvia Brull Baralt in Ottawa.

      http://international.loc.gov/service/mss/mssmisc/mfdip/2005%20txt%20files/2004zim01.txt

      “Her father was number two in the Cuban Embassy. We were married in Ottawa shortly after I was out of the Navy.”

      Their eldest son is Robert J. Zimmerman, Sr.:

      ” My oldest son married a girl from Barcelona although it wasn’t until after we were back here.”

      Recall that “Gladys” brother, “George” Meza served with
      Robert in Viet Nam.

      Robert met “George’s” sister, “Gladys”, at a party in Washington D. C.

      That is the Zimmerman’s family narrative being told to the public.

      http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425

      • crazy1946 says:

        ajamazin,
        >>>Robert and Gladys met in January 1975, when George Mesa brought along his army buddy to his sister’s birthday party. She was visiting from Peru, on vacation from her job there as a physical education teacher. Robert was a Baptist, Gladys was Catholic. They soon married, in a Catholic ceremony in Alexandria, and moved to nearby Manassas.<<<

        This from the last link you sent, if you will read that, and consider her mother is also from Peru, then you might think that she was from Peru and as such, even if she has become a citizen of this country, still holds dual citizenship with Peru, this entitiles George the right to also hold citizenship (under their laws and ours) with Peru. Granted there are no published facts that I have found yet that give a qualified determation of the date and place of her birth. I question that the other link that you sent is George's father due to the dates involved, he would have to be over 75+ years old and the photo's I have seen do not portray him as apearing that old. I realize that all of this is not of much importance, just some curious trivia, except the part about the possible escape plans of Zimmerman that have been put out there to consider. Thanks for taking the time to help me learn a little bit more of the family history. Your knowledge of this whole case is great and I thank you for allowing me to absorb a little of it.

      • ajamazin says:

        Crazy 1946,

        The link to Reuter’s is the version of the family’s narrative.

        Whatever

      • fauxmccoy says:

        how does the story of robt w. zimmerman jive with that of robt j. zimmerman (george’s father)? it seems at odds with the story of george’s father growing up in pennsylvania near norm wolfinger, as this interview indicates that robt w. fulfilled his foreign service duties with his family with him?

    • ajamazin says:

      Two sides to the story,

      You stated:

      “I don’t quite understand why people say you don’t need a passport to leave the US. ”

      “People say you don’t need a passport to leave the US”
      because no specific law exists that prohibits US citizens from leaving the US.

      The US is not a penal colony.

      • Two sides to the story says:

        Well, yes, if you want to speak in fuzzy generalities rather than about pratical realities . . . ;]

      • crazy1946 says:

        ajamazin, On this point you are correct! I fly (via my personal plane) to Belize to our second home (soon to become our primary home) once or twice a month, the only requirement I must meet (unless requested by customs before departure) is my flight plan being filed. I do have to clear customs upon re-entry into the USA, but that is normally only about a two or three minute delay and has never been a problem (yet). The only time we need to display our passports is when we return. When I land in Belize the tower will notify me if we need to clear customs there, but seldom have they required that, perhaps because we are known there as property owners?

        • Two sides to the story says:

          But clearly most Americans don’t get to travel the way you do, although that would be another way for GZ to get out of the country sans passport – via a private charter with someone whose movements don’t arouse suspicion during a routine private flight into a foreign destination.

    • ajamazin says:

      “The mention of the duplicate passport brings up another small problem that no one has mentioned. Zimmerman’s mother is a native of Peru and as such is a citizen of that country, and because of that Georgie holds dual citizenship. ”

      Proof?

      Zimmerman’s mother is NOT a native of Peru.
      So how is she a citizen of that country, hmmmm…..?

      • crazy1946 says:

        ajamazin, I’m on my not so smart phone and doing a web search is not as easy as it is from my laptop, but this is what a quick search turned up!

        http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-04-30/george-zimmerman-twitter-facebook/54649154/1

        http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/crime/george-zimmerman-white-or-latino

        http://newamericamedia.org/2012/04/zimmerman-case-ignites-dialogue-on-latino-racial-identity.php

        Here are three links to sites that allege Mrs. Zimmerman is from Peru. This takes us back to the early statements of Robert Zimmerman that his wife was a native of Peru and George therefore could not be a racist! Is she from Peru? With all the less than honest statements made by the entire Zimmerman tribe, who really knows?
        I hope this gives you a little more insite on why I suspect Zimmerman might have the ability to rabbit if he feels cornered with no other option than going back to jail!

      • crazy1946 says:

        ajamazin,
         >>>Crazy 1946,The link to Reuter’s is the version of the family’s narrative.Whatever<<<

        I suppose that with this response, I have offended you? Please accept my apology, for that was not my intent. I was simply attempting to understand exactly where GZ’s mother was from, as you see from the links I posted and the links you posted, there seems to be some question as to what the truth is. This seems to be a problem with most of the information involving this family, and it difficult to determine fact from fiction on anything you read or see that came from them. Again, I value your knowledge and opinions, and would not by intent attempt to insult or offend you in any way.

    • Dennis says:

      I agree. It is easier to flee the USA than try to gain entry illegally. I’m sure it would not be hard to find someone willing to accept thousands of dollars to take you out of the country by small plane or boat. It appears that the USA also has extradition treaties with almost every single central and south American country. Even if the FBI doesn’t manage to track him down, Interpol will. He is not intelligent enough to hide from the best that international law enforcement has to offer.

      • momisbuff says:

        “He is not intelligent enough to hide from the best that international law enforcement has to offer.”

        You don’t think so? What about all that uber-complex code he’s crafted to help conceal himself?

      • Dennis says:

        @momisbuff

        Not many fugitives can evade Interpol. I looked at the world map of countries that have an extradition policy with the USA and every country in Central and South America has one. If he flees it would be the dumbest mistake he makes, aside from murdering an unarmed teenager.

      • momisbuff says:

        I, of course, am kidding about that. A sarcastic reference to how clever George thinks himself to be. He’s made many dumb mistakes and I can only assume he will continue to make them. Leaving the country would be among the dumbest … though I do not put anything past him.

  35. Trix says:

    Just curious if you feel that Zimmerman’s bond could be revoked as a result of his reaching out to Trayvon’s family during the Hannity interview? I’m not sure if that is considered indirect contact or not? TIA.

    • Many of us have been wondering about that.

      • ajamazin says:

        Professor,

        1] Would you provide examples to help us understand what is meant by direct and indirect contact?

        2] Would Zimmerman’s intention be a factor?

        3] If there was a reasonable expectation that the Martin family
        would be listening to the interview, would the court have a basis to believe Zimmerman intended contact?

        4] If there was a reasonable expectation that the Martin family
        would be made aware of Zimmerman’s statement by a third party, would the court have a basis to believe Zimmerman intended indirect contact?

        5] In the absence of intention, would it be presumed by the court that a reasonable expectation existed that the Martin family would listen to the interview or that the Martin family
        would be made aware of Zimmerman’s statement by a third party?

        • I think the answer to your questions are he would not have made the statement on national TV unless he intended them to hear it. He was not talking in his sleep or to the wall.

          They were either going to see and hear him say it while watching TV, or they were going to hear about it or be asked about it afterward.

          That is something he would have known before he made the statement.

          In my mind there is absolutely no question that constitutes “indirect contact.”

          That is an intentional violation of the conditions of his release, as opposed to an inadvertent violation.

          If I were Judge Lester, I would revoke his bond, issue a no-bail bench warrant for his arrest, and instruct the Seminole County Sheriff’s Department to pick him up and take him to jail.

          There would be no surrender-within-48-hours courtesy extended.

          Enough is enough,

      • Dennis says:

        I agree that he violated his order for “indirect contact”. GZ and his lawyer have zero intelligence. Why did O’Mara not stop GZ from answering SH’s question regarding what he would like to say to the Zimmerman family? His constantly lets GZ open his dumb mouth and say the most ridiculous things. He clearly is not acting in his client’s best interests. At least Jose Baez didn’t let his monster of a client commit perjury and tell lie after lie to the media and police. A good lawyer that is acting in the client’s best interests would never let them talk, they would be telling them to keep their mouth closed.

        • Remember the old saying,

          You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.

          If a client refuses to do what you tell him to do, or persists in doing what you tell him not to do,

          Get Out.

    • TruthBTold says:

      @ Trix,

      I know the attorneys for TM are/were looking into that. Going over the Bond Order. I guess it comes down to the means or instrument used in determining whether indirect.

      • Trix says:

        I knew they were looking into it and I’m sure the prosecution is as well and like you said, I’m sure it’s going to boil down to the interpretation of indirect contact. I’ll say IMO I feel it was indirect contact but then again I’m not a legal person at all.

  36. Trix says:

    Such a pleasure reading your very informative posts Mr. Leatherman. It’s always nice to have someone dummy things down for us who aren’t legal minds. I’ve no doubt whatsoever that everything that witness #9 stated was 100% true. I’m so sick of this man and his attorney and cannot wait until the time comes to hear a jury say GUILTY AS CHARGED.

  37. Elle Jay says:

    –omara knew darn well that by filing his motion at 10:56 that he was far too late—-for anything to be done about it—it was all for show for the donor$$$$$$—-wahhhhhhh! look at what the Big Bad State did—-they released the info anyway!

    –when, even the State had said that they ALSO didn’t want/ see the need for W9’s 2nd stmt to be released—that was judgeL’s call and he was bound by case law etc. in his Order..

    –omara KNEW it was going to be released, so tried to make it look like it was the State that did it——tugging @ the (heart strings)/ purse strings! of the $$$$$upporters.

    –( i also don’t believe a word omara says about the 2nd passport…OR the 37K—-as much as he says “you can choose to believe me or not”) ——NOT.

  38. Justkiddin* says:

    I posted for the first time the other day and I just wanted to say please forgive my manners. I left a comment like I had been here dozens of times without thanking you for keeping us informed of this case. I appreciate how you get down to business and add enough humor so that we do not pull our hair out in frustration. I also would like to say I enjoy the people who contribute here also. A lot of great minds at work here.
    About this new post -during the interview when this came up about the cousin I do not recall any denial about molestation. Did I miss it or did I block it out because I secretly despise Mr. Zimmerman and his judgmental ways? Also Mr. O’Mara is not doing so well as of lately. Will you please stop reminding him about opening the door to what a wonderful person Mr. Zimmerman is? I would love to see this allegation blow the doors off the court room. In my mind all I care about is Justice for Trayvon and at this point I do not care how he gets it. Legally that is, I do not like Zimmy’s justice.
    Thanks for allowing me to comment at this great place! JK

  39. Applecross says:

    Can a 8 year old molest a 6 year old legally?

    • Probably not, but a 12 year old can molest a 10 year old, etc.

      • Applecross says:

        So a 2 year difference does not make a difference. I was listening to a caller call a radio show the other day and the caller was claiming to be a victim of molestation by a cousin. The therapist told her she wasn’t a victim, that the ages were too close and that therapists don’t consider molestation for less than 4 year age difference. It has to do with control. The therapist told her to stop being a victim.

        I do respectfully appreciate your blog, your opinion and your replies to my questions. Having said that I think that George’s account from that fateful evening is entirely possible so I don’t necessarily agree with you.

        • TruthBTold says:

          @Applecross,

          To each his or her own as far as what they believe. However, looking at the objective evidence (defendant’s words, location of body, etc.) and the major inconsistencies, then apply common sense and draw reasonable inferences, I just can’t reconcile how adamant some people are regarding their support or conclusions, but hey *shrugs* Forget about what’s possible, how about what’s probable? Ciao.

        • That’s OK.

          Nobody has to agree with me about anything.

          BTW, I do not agree with that 4-year rule.

          Too rigid.

          Should depend on circumstances.

      • crazy1946 says:

        Applecross: I have heard the logic that you display used frequently on the right wing discussion sites, they always say that how could it be molestation, because they were only six and eight years old, neglecting that she claimed this went on for over ten years. You folks also neglect to understand that it is not some unknown therapist that will/could file sex abuse charges but instead a prosecutor or a grand jury. I suppose that because of some unknown reason you are unwilling to accept that perhaps his cousin is telling the truth, and nothing that anyone else could say would change that perception in your mind. Personally, I will keep an open mind and accept that what she has said could be true, but regardless should have no bearing on the outcome of the trial of Zimmerman, unless the defense brings it into play for some unknown reason!

      • Applecross says:

        Well I do trust the radio show host who made that comment and I did Google the matter and found again (and again) that the medical and legal definition of molestation involves an age difference of at least 3 years.

        For example from this site: http://tinyurl.com/26tmoy

        “What’s the age difference between a molester and a child? It is five years, so a 14-year-old “older child” sexually touching a nine-year-old is an example. This is the accepted medical definition.

        Sometimes, a professional will consider that a molestation act has occurred when the older child is only three years older – a sixth-grader with a third-grader, for instance. The crucial element here is the lack of equality between the two children; the sixth grader is clearly bigger, more powerful, and more “adult-like” than the third-grader.

        We avoid definitions that are ambiguous by sticking to the medical definition. We define “child molester” as an adult or child, who is at least five years older than the child he or she has molested.”

        Again the radio host scolded the caller as playing the victim and told her to get on with her life By the way I don’t know the molestation facts in the George vs Martin case other than the age difference. I have no opinion on the matter, I just wonder on the legality of the matter considering the age difference.

      • momisbuff says:

        I thought I left a response to Applecross the other day, but don’t see it here. So, I’m confused. In any case, I’ll try again now regarding legal & medical definitions.

        I am not an expert by any means, especially in legal & medical definitions. Nevertheless, it is *my* understanding from looking into the statutes in VA & FL, from being a mandated reporter & foster mother, and from reading information regarding adolecent sexual preditors, that molestation is molestation regardless of age and rape is rape regardless of age. If a child is younger than 12, they cannot LEGALLY be considered a “sexual predator,” but children younger than 12 certainly can socially behave in sexually inappropriate manners. Additionally, it is my understanding that POWER difference is what matters, age difference being only one potential power differential–others are physical size, mental or developmental advantage, role differentiation, predatory patterns (such as luring), force, coersion, intimidtion, bribes, etc. From what I see, age comes into play it these ways: 1) the age of the offender (based on Young Offender’s Act) should be 12 in order to legally be charged, and 2) age differential considerations (3 years in CA & VA) would create a stiffer sentencing criteria for acts of rape/molestation. 3) There are or may be age differentials required for the charge of statutory rape. (One site is http://www.cyc-net.org/cyc-online/cycol-0905-charles.html , which includes findings and information on juvenile sex offenders).

        What I am whole-heartedly oposed to is the idea that somehow a victim is not a victim is a certain age differential isn’t met. I would have ZERO confidence in an on-air “therapist” who tells someone they aren’t a victim because an offender wasn’t the right number of years older than them (regardless if there are legal & medical definitions that I am not fully aware of) and basically scolds them for feeling traumatized by a molest. From someone who has providing a healing evironment to juveniles, including those who’ve experienced sexual trauma, I am flabergasted at the horrible response to that girl’s trauma. This passion is in no way directed at Applecross, but at a very untheraputic interaction on that radio show.

    • KA says:

      Would the issue not be unwelcome and forced sexual contact for 10 years? That would be ages 8 – 18 for GZ…regardless of the age difference, unwanted sexual contact is unwanted sexual molestation. Her age was only part of this disturbing situation.

  40. CommonSenseForChange says:

    Professor Leatherman –

    I’m still loving your blog and your expert opinion of the case.

    “The problem was further complicated by the judge going on vacation this past week and next week. Therefore, O’Mara had to act Friday afternoon.”

    Neither O’Mara nor Zimmerman deserve the special attention they crave and their attempts to get around the law with *technicalities is working. Judge lester signed and dated his order the day before it was filed. O’Mara held onto a passport he claimed he wrote a legal paper acknowledging same for about a month.

    Turnabout… I’m not sure if court filing is deemed accepted based on timestamping by the clerk or by dated signature of the judge.

    In any event, the ruling prior to O’Mara’s baloney filing had already been ruled on long prior to O’Mara’s late Monday filing. I think O’Mara did this filing ONLY to get news coverage and to raise funds. Surely he’s not so inept to hold onto a passport for his client for a month as he put his client in touch with a bondsman that would allow O’Mara to be solely responsible for monitoring his gps device AND help his client hide money.

    No way he’d file a silly-man’s motion to regain monetary support from his client’s bigoted supporters. No way! 🙂

    • CommonSenseForChange says:

      I meant to say their attempts to get around the law with technicalities is NOT working.

    • The law biz works on the Clerk’s date and time stamp. That’s the filing date. The legal pleading or order isn’t distributed until after the original is filed. The signatures and dates necessarily precede the filing.

  41. TruthBTold says:

    Professor,

    I understand both sides not wanting to release the second statement of W9 alleging sex abuse (for the record, I do believe her) especially, if such claim is not immediately relevant to the issue at hand. People are human and will size up a person’s character and propensity as a result of various claims or information being put forth. I guess Florida’s Sunshine Laws overrode the case that you cited. It would be after the fact, pointless, and a little too late during the voire dire process, to determine it’s impact. A potential juror can mask their influence in an effort to get seated. However, with the release of other prior bad acts (e.g. altercation with officer some years ago), if you will, committed by Zimmerman released already, does that not possibly have the same impact as well?

    • It’s the other way around, The case interpreted the Sunshine Law. Therefore, the evidence probably should not have been released, but it’s too late to do anything about it.

      As a judge who was a retired admiral used to say, “Target gone by, counsel.”

      The other incident probably isn’t admissible either, unless the defense opens the door.

      • TruthBTold says:

        @Professor,

        Yes. Thank you. I got a little turned around there with respect to the case interpretation and Sunshine Law.

        “As a judge who was a retired admiral used to say, “Target gone by, counsel.”

        LMBO. Hilarious.

  42. Patricia says:

    As serious as molestation is, and it is incredibly serious, and we know that molestation happens – but there has been no conviction to establish that these incidents of molestation happened.

    I expect that the jury will be instructed to concentrate on the existing, AMPLE evidence presented to them in the MURDER case that is before them.

    That is their charge.

    I expect the general public understands that.

    Separate from all that, if a potential donor to Zimmerman heard the cousin’s emotional and wrenching interview, and believed she spoke the truth – as I did – perhaps that potential donor would hesitate to write a check to GZ.

    That is a separate issue, but one incredibly important right now to GZ and O’Mara.

    It’s the money.

    • That is an extremely important point. Thanks for mentioning it.

      Call it te EEEEWWW Factor

      Nothing will cut down the money tree quicker than an allegation of multiple instances of predatory incestuous child molestation over a 10-year period by the hero.

      That makes it a lot easier to find other ways to spend one’s money.

      Nevertheless, I’m sure he won’t regret that the accusation came out because it’s “God’s Plan.”

      • Dennis says:

        I agree. I can’t recall a single person in support of Jerry Sandusky so I doubt he will receive any money from a large majority of the people that know about these accusations.

        • Two sides to the story says:

          You’d be surprised by how many people are in denial about GZ. Scan through threads on GZLC on Facebook and other GZ support sites on FB. Many people accuse Cristina Meza Johnson of lying. There’s nothing GZ can or can’t do that will alienate some of these people who are desperate for one reason or another to believe that GZ acted in self defense.

          • TruthBTold says:

            Individuals that are hell bent on believing GZ regardless of evidence suggesting otherwise, are those who just have to believe that TM, the black urban looking kid, had to be the troublemaker. He just had to be, because it confirms their biases and beliefs about a certain segment of our population.

          • I agree.

            I have been saying for some time now that only a racist would believe that TM suddenly, for no apparent reason while talking to his girlfriend after successfully eluding the scary and creepy guy following him, would decide to attempt to kill a much heavier man using only his bare hands.

            A person would have to believe in racial stereotypes in order to fail to recognize the absolute absurdity of that story.

            This case is a mirror of America and one of the most important things it tells us is that racism is very much alive and well throughout this country.

          • TruthBTold says:

            @Professor,

            You are absolutely right and I wholeheartedly agree. As a Black female, I don’t have to contend with some of the issues that Black males have to deal with. Where I live, there is a movement to stop racial profiling/stop and frisk practices. However, because I subscribe to the same race/ethnicity (although and obviously we are not a monolithic groups in terms of beliefs, values, etc.), it still pains me to know that people hold these views; it’s frustrating often. This is the only blog that I am involved with. I don’t have it in me or really the interest to search for other types of discussions and be subjected to ignorance and hatred. If a person is not on the side of truth, equality, and justice regardless of a person’s race/ethnicity, etc., then I have nothing for them.

      • Dennis says:

        Thank you for your great comments. I never believed that TM was doing anything wrong or suspicious. Wearing a hoody and talking on a cellphone is not suspicious. The only reason that GZ followed him is because he was black, there is no other explanation. This is a case involving racial profiling. He most likely just followed TM until TM started evading him out of fear. Once TM starts to evade him, GZ believes that he is definitely a criminal at that point and gets out of the car to pursue the person on foot.

        • TruthBTold says:

          @Dennis,

          He sure wasn’t doing anything wrong. Unfortunately, he fell victim to an individual who doesn’t have the acumen, impartiality, common-sense, let alone any training of sorts (I do know that under NW this is not an element of course), the ability to make good decisions, etc., Truthfully, unless you saw TM with his face cupped in his GZ should have continued on about his business (if he was really going to the store). Who the heck does this guy think he is to determine, according to his specifications, how a person should be behaving or walking in the rain? I feel horrible for this family. TM had no idea that on a Sunday evening, going to the store, intent on returning home to watch the NBA All-Star game, that this would happen. Heartbreaking. Even from a different perspective and we all know that TM wasn’t doing anything bad, after coming to a conclusion although faulty, that someone was up to no good, on drugs, something is wrong, he’s coming towards me with hand in waistband, yada yada, and that individual takes off, who in their right mind is going to go after someone not knowing who this person is or what they are capable of and potentially put themselves in harms way? He doesn’t think at all.

      • Dennis says:

        I agree. GZ is not law enforcement. Unless he witnessed the person commit a crime he has no right to chase that person down on foot. The physical evidence, the lies that GZ has told, and the statements from TM’s girlfriend prove that GZ tried to illegally detain TM. By doing so GZ committed two crimes, assaulting a minor and false imprisonment. He knows that he is not protected under Stand Your Ground or standard Self-Defense laws if he is the aggressor or is in the act of a crime. That is why he adjusted the official story to make it seem that TM came and assaulted him out of nowhere. Just like Frederick has said, TM had no history of violence and there is no motive for why he would assault GZ out of nowhere when his girlfriend clearly says that he was in fear of GZ and tried to get away.

      • Dennis says:

        @TruthBTold

        I agree. I’ve surfed many YouTube videos regarding TM and there are so many racist people on there it is ridiculous. Many people have no intelligence. I battled out debates with people that thought Amanda Knox was guilty. I battled it out with people that thought Casey Anthony was innocent. In every case you will find tons of idiots that know nothing about the evidence. In this case the victim was black so all of the racists will crawl out from under their rocks and show their true colors.

  43. ajamazin says:

    But it was the prosecution’s fault……

  44. TruthBTold says:

    Oh another great entry to keep us engaged. I salute you Sir!

  45. TruthBTold says:

    Well, this is the same man that forgot he had GZ’s second passport in his red well. Ah….I’ll cut him a tiny bit of slack on that as that was probably an honest oversight. However, when you pile all of the things he has done/didn’t do, it gets a little questionable.

    • Dennis says:

      I thought the second passport was in a safety deposit box, correct me if I am wrong.

      • masonblue says:

        It was, according to the recorded jailhouse conversation, but O’Mara said he had it in a file in his office and “inadvertently” failed to turn it over to the Court.

        He may have been protecting his client.

      • TruthBTold says:

        @Dennis,

        Thank you Professor for responding. It was at the second hearing (not Bond Hearing). The hearing where the media outlets first presentend their argument(s) regarding the release of information. This was also the time when BDLR exposed GZ and his wife. Remember, BDLR also included the second passport which I presume, he got from the phone call about it being in a safety deposit box. MOM produces said passport and informed the court that it was given to him and he put it in a folder and forgot essentially. I don’t recall when it was given to him by GZ or whomever.

  46. CherokeeNative says:

    Awesome article Professor Leatherman. I applaude you. AND thank you for bringing this issue back to front and center.

  47. Two sides to the story says:

    It’s remarkable how fast lightning can strike.

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